October 4, 2024 • 48 mins
Curious about how ancient practices can enhance modern health? This episode promises a deep dive into the world of herbalism, acupressure, and medical astrology with our esteemed Heart of Herbs Herbal School Student, Cristina Cabezas Eury. With over 25 years of experience in natural health and healing, Cristina’s journey is a compelling blend of personal experiences and academic insights, from her early fascination with medicinal plants as a Girl Scout to her professional ventures as a Jin Shin Jyutsu practitioner. Cristina shares an enriching narrative that will inspire anyone interested in holistic health.
We explore Cristina's transition from anthropology to herbalism, detailing her early work with the La Leche League and her passion for supporting natural childbirth and breastfeeding. Cristina’s expertise shines through as she discusses how historical and cultural perspectives on these subjects have evolved. She also opens up about her personal practices, such as making fire cider and growing herbs, and how these simple rituals contribute to her daily well-being. The balance of pursuing professional growth while raising a family is a key theme, emphasizing the importance of strong support systems and lifelong learning. https://ancientflow.com/
This episode also delves into the innovative ways Cristina integrates her herbal knowledge into her massage therapy practice. Discover how medical astrology and acupressure techniques are customized for individual clients, providing a holistic approach tailored to their natal charts. We touch on the exciting realms of distance healing and the practicalities of conducting medical astrology sessions via video conferencing. If you’re intrigued by how ancient wisdom can be applied in today’s world, you won’t want to miss Cristina’s enlightening insights and practical tips.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi, this is Demetria Clark, the director of Heart of
Herbs Herbal School, and today,on the Heart of Herbs Herbal
School podcast, we are talkingto Christina Cabezas.
Is that right?
Yeah, is that right.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, all right, cool , yeah.
Is that right?
Yeah, all right, cool, allright.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So Christina is a licensed massage therapist with
over 25 years of study andnatural health and healing of
the body.
As an acupressure therapist,christina supports people with
chronic health conditions tostabilize and improve their
quality of life, ultimatelytowards optimizing their health.
Her mission is to transform theentire physical, health and
(00:49):
emotional well-being of herclients.
They work together to feel morebalanced, grounded and
energized, allowing the body andthe mind to continually heal
itself.
Thank you so much for beinghere today.
What an impressive bio.
I'm really excited to talk toyou.
So first things first.
What got you into this kind ofwork?
(01:13):
Like what was your your firstseedling?
I'm going to load a question tostart with.
What's your?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
origin story.
How was your origin story?
Well, it is funny.
(01:41):
I have reflected a bit on thisorigin story.
I can remember I was a GirlScout in middle school and we
were working as a group to tryand get a silver award and
working with this park withinour city and they wanted us to
do little portions to supportthe induction, the creation of
this park.
And I remember being reallydrawn and fascinated by what
plants were in this park andwhat they might be quote, used
for, might be helpful for, andparticularly in the more
(02:05):
medicinal edible realm.
Um, and, and that was that veryfirst like spark, and I
remember even saying somethingto the girl scout leader about
how, like the old medicine womenin in in the, in the native
tribes, and you know.
Then high school happened and Iwas an exchange student in
(02:30):
Germany and distractions ofvarious kinds and sort of
thought I would studyinternational relations or
something along those lines andgot distracted.
And then I started studyingcultural anthropology and that
was a really great fit for thatsort of interest in food and
(02:52):
medicine and the land.
But it was still kind of alittle bit dormant.
It wasn't until mymother-in-law I got married very
young, I was 20.
She was going back to school atthe time to become a midwife, a
certified nurse midwife, andshe headed yeah, yeah, she
(03:13):
didn't end up completing it, itwould have been her second
master's degree because she wasin her fifties and she's like I
just, I just can't.
But she handed me a few bookson what doulas were.
So here I was, at like 21, 22,reading books on doulas and
going doulas, these women whosupport women who are going
(03:34):
through natural childbirth ornot quite so natural, but birth
period.
And that led me to the midwivesin my town.
And when I finally got pregnantat 23, finally they were very
interested in herbs and, ofcourse, and they were lay
(03:57):
midwives or they were in adifferent midwife track, not the
CNM track but but a differentprofessional midwife kind of
track.
And they handed me a book onthe childbearing year by Susan
Weed.
Okay yeah, and I remember beinglike, oh my gosh.
(04:18):
I think my second book wasAviva Bra, aviva Ram's book on
the childbearing year, and Ijust remember just being
completely fascinated by all ofthose things.
I finished my degree inanthropology where I focused on
natural childbirth andbreastfeeding, and so that was
really fun to kind of delve intoa little bit of research around
(04:42):
those worlds and theanthropological implications,
the scientific ramifications ofbeing a woman in a Western world
and breastfeeding or choosingto breastfeed or choosing to
have a natural childbirth.
So those were huge areas ofinterest and I was still trying
(05:05):
to figure it out.
I had thought I would studynatural.
This is ending up a long story,sorry.
Oh, I'm loving it.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I'm loving it.
I have some questions to askyou, like as soon as you're
ready.
Love it.
Oh, I think we just lost you.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
No, oh you just came back.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Okay, all right, perfect we were going to edit
that out or maybe not.
You guys can just deal.
Yeah, silence, it was your timeto reflect.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
It was time to reflect on on on those things
and where I was going.
I I had encountered somebody, Ifound a homeopathic study group
somehow, um and uh, things likethat.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, internet Facebook really screwed up a lot
of those things Right.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And it was in person at a, uh, our local library.
And um, I started going and onetime somebody dropped in.
She she was like 25 years oldand she told me about this
program of study callednaturopathic medicine and she
was headed to Bastyr, I think,out in Washington state to study
(06:40):
to become a naturopathicphysician, which, for those who
are unfamiliar with that track,it is essentially becoming a
medical doctor, but instead ofstudying the Western
pharmaceuticals it is reallystudying herbs and a lot more of
the natural ways of managinghealth.
(07:02):
So that had been a name.
I had child number two and whenhe was about three I decided I
would start making my waytowards that path of
naturopathic physician andstarted really kind of beginning
those prerequisites, because alot of sciences I had kind of
(07:25):
avoided as an anthropologydegree and we decided to move.
There are four at the time, fournaturopathic colleges.
One of them was in Tempe,Arizona, and I had also gotten
involved with Waldorf educationand I had also gotten involved
(07:45):
with Waldorf education.
My kids had gone to Waldorfschools the Waldorf preschool
here, which in the rest of theworld are called Steiner schools
, and there was a Waldorf schoolin Phoenix that had just gone
charter, and there I felt like Iwas going to have my cake and
be able to eat it too.
I could go for graduateprogramming that I was super
(08:08):
excited about, and my kids couldcontinue on on a Waldorf
educational system for free,because my husband is a public
school teacher and so all ofthat was kind of coming together
.
And then baby number threesurprise.
So we went ahead and moved toArizona and so I was about 30
(08:29):
minutes away from the SouthwestSchool of Naturopathic Medicine
and started raising this lastchild, and by the time she was
three and I was starting to getto that place where I would need
to.
I choose to be at home with mylittle ones, but at this point,
(08:49):
when they're about three or four, I start more part-timing it
and doing more things outside.
And I was going to start takingprereqs and I started realizing
that I wasn't feeling well.
I was dealing with a lot ofbackaches, a lot of headaches.
I was really strugglingphysically.
I was tired.
(09:11):
By 9 am I was in this verydepressed state and essentially,
when I went to my naturopathicphysician to get some care and
additional feedback resourcesaround what was happening and
(09:31):
what I was noticing withinmyself, she did some lab work
and she said basically you're inadrenal fatigue, but your labs
aren't showing it yet, so you'rein a good place if you can turn
this around.
So again, depressed, tired, by9 am, which is not good when you
(09:53):
have a three-year-old, aseven-year-old and an
11-year-old Just not a great wayto be functioning.
Waller schools tend to do a bitof parent education and that
school at the time did a lot ofthose kinds of things.
And one Saturday morning in thesame period there was a
practitioner who came and did athree-hour self-help class and
(10:20):
so I went to this class and Iwas blown away with how I felt
by the end of the three hours,so much so that, oh, poor woman,
I was like following her.
She's trying to put everythingin the car.
I'm following her to the carlike totally interrogating how
(10:41):
do I learn more?
Like it was a whole thing.
Unfortunately I've lost touchwith that woman, but if she
hears this, thank you for beingso kind.
Exactly, but, but.
But that class was anintroduction to a Japanese form
(11:02):
of acupressure called Jin ShinJitsu and I was completely blown
away because the depressionlifted, I had energy.
I remember for the next eighthours feeling like I was on this
incredibly natural high withall of this energy.
(11:25):
But I remember also stomping onthe ground and telling my
friends like I feel really,really grounded, but I feel like
I've got all of this energy andI was just.
I felt so amazing andthankfully she did pass some.
The teacher of that three-hourclass passed some information on
, so I called the office thatwas local to me which happens to
(11:48):
also be at the time theinternational office for Jin
Shin Jutsu practitioners inScottsdale, and got hooked up.
And so that's where my pathchanged, because in realizing
that I could learn about thisnatural healing art, using our
fingers, not needles, to supportour natural health without a
(12:16):
whole lot of other things, justfelt like this is my path, is my
path.
And and although the idea ofgoing to naturopathic medical
school if I won a milliondollars, oh, I'd be moving my
husband to Bastyr to go andstudy that.
But the reality is that where Ilive in North Florida, there
(12:38):
are no states nearby, includingFlorida, that licensed
naturopathic physicians and myfamily is in Florida, my
husband's family is in NorthCarolina and part of my family
is in Costa Rica, and so it justwas not going to make financial
the ROI, as they say.
The business people return oninvestment of spending a hundred
(13:00):
thousand to half a million on anaturopathic physician degree
was going to be a little toughoh yeah right, but you're giving
people ROH Turn on their healthby helping them.
So that led me, as I said, tostudy naturopath, to study,
(13:20):
excuse me Jinjinjutsu.
And for most people where Ilive in North Florida they've
never heard of it.
And so I typically say I'm anacupressure therapist, because
that makes a little more sense,it's a little bit easier for
people to understand what'sgoing on, and usually that's my
(13:40):
introduction I'm an acupressuretherapist.
That means fingers, not needles.
That's my introduction.
I'm an acupressure therapist.
(14:01):
That means fingers, not needles.
And then, once it computes,they're like oh, then they get a
sense of it, becauseJinjinjutsu is based in TCM,
traditional Chinese medicine.
In that I will say that reiki,which most people are a little
bit more familiar with, came tothe states at the same time jen
shinjutsu did, but reiki had amuch better promotional uh team
for it than than jen shinjutsudid, so it may have been also
how you pronounce the namesometimes there's simple things,
(14:24):
like people being like I don'tknow how to say that, so I'm
just gonna you know Exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I mean it's funny, but it's definitely like,
sometimes the obvious, likepromotional thing.
You know, you'd be like let'scall it like finger pulse or
something People are like, yeah,I do the finger pulse method or
whatever, right.
And then next thing, you, youknow.
So I have a question real quickand we're backtracking about
(14:51):
did you feel that your initialstudies in cultural anthropology
shaped the way that you, one,raised your children and, two,
thought about health andwellbeing and those dynamics?
Because for me, that I, Istudied some of this in high
school.
I went to an alternative Quakerhigh school and I lived in
(15:13):
communes and stuff, but anyways,I digress there was a lot of
that kind of people who studiedthat kind of stuff and I felt at
least in my case, it completely.
I was just like this is theonly way I'm doing it.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, I will say the degree working, and so I took a
pause after that first one wasborn for eight months and I
joined La Leche League and Ithink it was a dual experience
of being heavily involved in mylocal La Leche League chapter
(15:50):
that met like twice a month andsometimes a little bit more.
They had a regular meeting andthey had a toddler meeting and I
was so I'm such a love to be incommunity with people that I
was like attending it all andlearning and and at the time.
Um, so this is like she wasborn in 96.
(16:13):
um, there was definitely minewas born in 96 too, all right um
and, and so there was a hugeSchilling has its own set of
books that they and that peopletalk about, and so that was an
easy resource, as I was studyinganthropology and really
focusing in on the things thatthe professors were talking
(16:34):
about.
But very few professors talkabout natural childbirth and
breastfeeding.
We can assume many of them aremale and if they're female, many
of them have not had children,and so it can be a little
interesting.
Thankfully, at the time, thechair of the anthropology
department at the University ofFlorida, his wife, was a natural
(16:59):
childbirth educator, so I hadsupport in in looking and in
fact he wanted me to to pursue amaster's or PhD after I
finished the bachelor's, whichwas a high compliment for sure,
absolutely Cool.
So so, yeah, it is definitelyboth of those I did when Alex,
(17:20):
when my child that was born in2000, when he was about two, I
became an LLUG leader and let metell you most of my meetings
that I led, I would bring inthat research of well, this is
what we see in Native culturesand this at things, particularly
in the 1950s, and how sciencewas very much touted as king,
(17:51):
nature not so much.
And how companies and theiradvertisements and how formula
has been very muchscientifically researched and
documented, became the goldstandard for a while, and and so
that has really colored um ourculture, particularly western
(18:17):
cultures, much more and thentransmuted down to second and
third world um cultures as well.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, definitely right.
I remember, um, so I actuallydid a project for one of my
classes, because I started off,called art history and cultural
anthropology were the two thingsthat I was just joking with my
husband this morning that youknow, the two things I'd ever go
back and get like my master'sdegree for is one of those Right
(18:45):
, and I don't have time foreither.
But but I did like a study onbillboards, like putting
billboards all through the stateof New York, cause that's where
my, my husband was in the armyat the time and the department
of defense actually paid me toteach some little breastfeeding
classes really early on.
(19:08):
And that was, and thoseteaching those classes is what
eventually, years later, becameheart of herbs and birth herbs,
that little root of someonebelieving that this very young
person who was breastfeeding youknow, so it's like it's funny
how it's all connected.
But but, um, I find that a lotof herbalists, who seem to enjoy
(19:31):
their jobs on like a differentkind of level, have their roots
in that, like anthropology, andyou know they, they, they look
at things a little bitdifferently.
I don't know if that's beenyour experience, but it sounds
like.
It sounds like all roads ledyou to exactly where you needed
to be at the right time, likethat's really cool that you go
(19:57):
to something at your child'sschool and it becomes what is
now your career.
How long have you been doingthis?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
that class was October of 2007.
Um, so I immediately the nextsort of professional kind of
leading track was in May of 2008.
And they usually recommendtaking one of those classes
(20:24):
five-day classes once every yearuntil you finish the three
those those taking them threetimes to become what they
officially call a studentpractitioner, because we're
always a student and that's whyshe used that term.
Many of us practitioners justsay we kind of drop the student
(20:45):
because it's just confusing tothe general public.
But but I didn't, I wasn't verypatient and so so I so I took
that May 2008 class in inScottsdale, because that was
close by Well, wouldn't you knowit?
About six months later, tucsonhad a class and I signed up for
(21:09):
that.
So five day I'm like I'm, I'mgonna find a place to stay with
some people and um, and I'mheading down to that class.
So five days down in Tucson totake that second class, and then
Scottsdale did that third, didanother class May of 2009.
(21:32):
And so I completed that in Mayof 2009 and took a few other
classes in between as well.
So, yeah, and I prettyregularly, about every year,
take another class in varioustopics within Jinjinjutsu world.
I've actually even traveled,traveled to different places.
(21:54):
I think one time when I was inPhoenix, I went out to Baltimore
and one of my oldest daughtersdid a study abroad in the
Netherlands and I was like, oh,there's a class in Amsterdam,
that's an expense.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I was going to come and visit you.
Yes, in Amsterdam.
That's an expense.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I was going to come and visit you, yes, exactly I
was the only American in thatclass and they were like why are
you here?
I'm like I'm visiting mydaughter and I get to see this
teacher who I've never seenbefore.
So that was a bonus.
But yeah, so this hasdefinitely the acupressure world
(22:33):
.
Jinjin jutsu totally has rockedmy world and so what?
It's been 15, 16, 17 yearssomewhere around there.
I'm not doing the math at themoment, um, math is overrated.
Well, you know, now I will sayit is not typical, uh, within
jinjin jutsu world, to beinterested in herbs, but I had
(22:54):
always kind of been.
As I expressed, you know, thatfirst pregnancy I got really
interested in those herbs.
I didn't know of anybody whowas studying those kinds of
things.
Now today it's so easy to justpop it in the Internet and find
all kinds of things.
Pop it in the internet and findall kinds of things.
But at the time I was raisingchildren, I wasn't willing to be
(23:16):
away for long periods of timeor travel long, long distances.
It was much easier at the timethat my kids were at their ages
for me to just disappear forfive days.
My husband could, you know,hold down the fort.
I think my mother-in-law came acouple of times to help that
hold down the fort, which wasvery sweet and supportive of her
(23:36):
and but but.
So herbs is not a particularlycommon interest within
Jinjinjutsu practitioners but itwas always an interest and I
happened to find out about forme because I'm in Florida and I
happened to find out about forme because I'm in Florida the
(23:57):
Florida Herbal Conference thatwas beginning, I think the first
one was in 2013, 2012,.
Uh, I, one of the things Ilearned in moving back to
Florida is that I had to get amassage license.
It was either that or become aminister.
I decided that I didn't reallywant to do the minister aspect
(24:23):
and I felt like it would be goodto study the body on a much
more physical level.
So massage school I went and Iremember hearing about the
Florida massage, florida herbalconference and I was like Ooh,
and I'd always been a big fan oflearning herbscom, um, I think
our fairies.
We were part of thatinauguration inaugural class of
buying our fairies, um and um.
(24:46):
I think maybe some of his earlyadvertisers may have included
myself and the kids, but but soyou know, going to the third
conference was was reallyfascinating.
Emily Ruff, who founded thatconference, happened to come up
to Gainesville to the massageschool and to do a little
(25:07):
afternoon class with one of theother faculty members at the
massage school and I had aconversation with her and she
offered the potential to worktrade and I was like, yes, sign
me up for work trading at theFlorida herb conference and I
would love to be about togetherwith the teaching team.
That would be amazing and Ihave been on the teaching team
(25:32):
moderating the Florida HerbConference ever since.
That's great, that's awesome.
So for me, herbs have been moreof a personal interest.
I mean there are pictures of memaking fire cider with the kids
.
Oh, I want to say aroundmassage school timeframe.
So love 2011.
(25:53):
And then I started getting intomaking lotion bars and salve and
making a long RosemaryGladstar's recipe of making a
face cream.
So those are regulars of whathappens in my household is fire
cider.
There's usually a batch or twoof different kinds of fire cider
around the house and there'slotion bars.
(26:15):
So if I ever come to visit you,you're likely to get a bar of
my lotion bar and maybe a littletravel thing.
I'm telling all my secrets hereof herbal salve first aid,
neosporin kind of alternativeherbal salve, you know, first
(26:36):
aid, neosporin kind ofalternative.
And then which.
I love having those things inmy travel kit and that's usually
how I introduce it to peoplelike this is great for travel.
It's the hard lotion and what'sthis, and people still don't
know what hard lotion is, butit's such a great thing.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Oh yeah, absolutely Right.
It's like you know, like Ithink one of the assignments we
have I'm not sure if you've doneyours yet or not is the herbal
first aid kit.
You know, cause it's like youjust kind of like, I mean, I
have one, I take them to travel.
I have one like in our RV.
There's another one that likeif I go to my kid's house, I
(27:09):
have, you know, I always havestuff in the car and like what
is this?
And you know what this is.
You've been seeing it since youwere two, but you know right
you know how kids are, so anywayfor sure I.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I have this in my little purse, this little round.
It's looked like a pencil caseand that's in my purse all the
time and it has some salve in alittle teeny bottle of tea tree
oil, a little teeny bottle oflavender essential oil, and then
it has like, oh, bitters,because I tend to need bitters,
so a little spray bitters.
(27:41):
I have my own little first aidkit that I carry around and then
I have an entire cabinet oflike herb teas, herbs and
various different kinds.
Yeah.
So it is definitely, um, yeahthings for me to to have herbal
first aid situations availableall over.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
yeah, you always need something.
You know for sure you might aswell just make it yourself and
and you know you know might aswell just make it yourself and,
and you know, get it done Right.
So let's see.
So we kind of talked about wheninspired you and fascinated you
.
And so what do you think is oneof the the best aspects of your
(28:30):
herbal work that you enjoy themost?
Like what is something thatjust every time you do it it
brings you joy, Like I love.
And this is probably so simpleand easy, but people are always
like what is something you Ilove making my little morning, I
do a little bit of cidervinegar in the morning and then,
but mine has turmeric andginger in it and I just like
(28:54):
that.
I like the way it makes me feel.
It's like my little thing,that's just mine.
No one else touches it, youknow, and and it's so simple and
it's so easy and I feel like itmakes such a difference in my
outlook, my day, like everything, and people are like, oh, like
they want it to be somethingreally complicated and I'm like
(29:15):
no, there's, I have nocomplications, I am not a
complicated person.
You know, like I want to notfeel sad in the wintertime, I
take a bath and then covermyself in sesame oil and I get
out and then I feel better.
You know people are like what Ihave?
No, I have no sexy remedies.
I'm like so simple, sopractical, so what is like your
(29:39):
thing?
You know the thing that youlove the most about when you you
know an herbal remedy orsomething like difference in
your life.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Well, for me, I love making my, my face cream.
It is and and so and.
For me that's a daily ritual,because I get out of the shower
in the morning and I'm latheringmyself in that face cream.
That is cause I tend towardsdryness.
I have curly hair, I I tend tohave much more of a drier
(30:10):
complexion, and so having thisreally rich and, um, essentially
edible kind of face, cream itis.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
It's called face cream, but everyone who makes it
is like you know.
They put it in their container,whatever version they make of
it.
And then it's like you havethis empty blender now that's
covered with, and you're likeyou end up putting it all over
your body in the kitchen.
You know everything in the housethat you touch smells like it.
(30:41):
Right, oh, for sure.
Isn't there some for anyoneelse?
No, no, I just used to make itlike um, I use different stuff
now, but I used to make it likejust massive like amounts at a
time because I would was livingin Vermont, my skin was really
dry.
Yeah, couldn't handle the woodstove and uh you know, so I get
(31:05):
it.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
But right, that's a good addiction to have totally
my face cream and I'm about torun out because I made a lot of
little containers.
I'm always looking for littlecontainers and you know running
them through the dishwasher tosanitize them before I make them
, and so, like my lotion bar andthe first day it's half I keep
in the freezer until I gift themout.
But the face cream can't bedone that way, it can't be
(31:27):
frozen, so I leave them in thefridge in one of my I have two
fridges I leave them in thefridge.
So that way then.
But I've handed them all outand so I'm like I just made.
When they don't give you thecontainers back always, and they
don't that was my mother's daything, was like mother's day
weekend.
I'm like I'm making face cream.
(31:47):
Whoever's gonna be here,whether it's my two daughters or
sometimes my sister, will comeover and it's everybody like
wear shorts or a dress thateverybody can lather up all the
things and put in all thecontainers.
So yeah, that is definitelylike my daily ritual of using my
face cream.
But lately I've really gotteninto a sort of coffee
(32:09):
alternative, um, sort of, tostart the day, and I am
completely and utterly addictedto cacao.
Um, the darker the better.
I love that better, um, and andso I, I um have a blend by a
local um herb shop.
She makes this lovely blendcoffee sort of alternative with
(32:31):
adaptogens and it has cacao,roasted dandelion, chicory,
chaga, ashwagandha, macau,cinnamon and ginger.
And then I add an additionalteaspoon of drinking chocolate
by another herbalist named RatsaRatsa chocolate out of Tarpon
(32:52):
Springs, and so a teaspoon ofeach of those, and that's how,
literally, I have been gettingmy morning.
Let it brew for 30 minutes andI'm really glad to have those
adaptogenic herbs and a littlebit of that toasted and dark
(33:14):
richness without having anysugar, and I know that it's
going to also support mydigestion, which is always in
something that I need.
So the little bit of ginger ishelping me with that, and the
cinnamon as well.
So so, yeah, those are twodifferent things, but all of
(33:38):
those are on the personal level.
In terms of how I use herbs, Imean, definitely it's around the
house and I grow things.
We live on a third of an acresuburban kind of lot, about four
miles from the University ofFlorida, and I've got echinacea
in the front lawn along withsome different hibiscuses, and
I've got a huge rosemary bush,and then in the back I've got,
(33:59):
you know, a peach tree and I'vemade peach leaf tea and tincture
as well, and I've got mulberryand I've got some comfrey
growing back there, which isawesome, and you know basil, of
course, a few different kinds ofbasil, thai basil and Genovese
basil and those kinds of things.
So again, all of that is on thepersonal level.
(34:21):
On a professional level, itgets tricky because I have a
massage license and so when I'mdoing body work I'm not supposed
to talk about other things orprescribe or blah, blah, blah.
So that has been a challengebecause it is definitely an
(34:42):
interest of mine to be able tosupport my clients much more on
the like what I would considerthat, that edible level of herbs
, that that that nurturing,nourishing level of herbs not
the more heroic kinds of herbsand so how to support my clients
(35:06):
with simple little things thatthey can do and bring into their
world has been a little bit ofa challenge, but one of the
things that I've started.
I started doing this about fouror five years ago.
I realized that within myacupressure tradition there were
connections to astrology and Ireally delved into that
(35:29):
astrological connection with thedifferent parts of the body,
and so for my clients that comeand see me in the office but I
also actually, when I do thesesessions, I do them online, even
for my in-person clients Istarted doing medical astrology
(35:50):
analysis on my clients.
So, getting their birthinformation that includes the
time of birth, the place, thelocation of the birth, not just
the date, so those threedynamics, and then looking into
creating a natal chart, as it'sdescribed, and then really
(36:13):
flipping it and looking at whatJinchen Jutsu says about those
astrological connections and thebody connections.
And so this document reallygoes very in-depth on how, based
on a number of factors,generally speaking, a bigger
(36:33):
focus on the ascendant, the sunsign and the moon sign Really
looking at those three factorsand more tailoring acupressure,
simple acupressure for myclients to be able to do on
themselves in between detailed,longer sessions with me.
(36:55):
And so this is where I canbring in the herb elements,
because once I have thatinformation of what I call their
constitutional tendencieswithin their body, then I can
kind of look and go okay, so I'mnoticing this.
For example, my sun sign isGemini.
(37:17):
Geminis tend to need a littlebit of support around digestion,
stomach, and so bitters arepart of my life.
There's two bottles of bitterthere.
I think I got another threebottles behind this wall Like I
can probably.
There's probably eight bottlesof bitters, little bottles of,
(37:38):
around within a 15 yard radiusof me, and so that supports my,
my Gemini nature, but that's notthe whole story, so so that's
kind of.
You know how I tend to go withmy clients is like, okay, you
have this, this and this, butthen there's this other aspects
(37:59):
of element, there's a bit more,but by the end of it they also
have recommendations of.
Based on these things, thisherb might be a really great
thing to start bringing intoyour life on a more regular
basis, or I'm noticing thiswithin your bodywork sessions
things that you're complainingabout.
How about we consider XYZ herb?
(38:24):
Or even I use Himalayan saltstones with my clients, and what
is the very first herb that welikely, as a species, used?
It's not really an herb, it's amineral, but it's salt.
And what herb do you see on orquote in quotes?
(38:45):
We've gone to wars for salt.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
We conquered or colonized or traveled the world
for salt.
I mean, you know they werelooking for unknown herbs.
When they decided to explore,they were looking for salt and
then other things, you know.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
But Right, the word salary comes from.
Its origin is in salt.
Its origin is in salt.
So but?
But with my clients I usecarved Himalayan salt stone, so
it's a very highly pure salt,and I place it on their body and
so sometimes I will notice thatthey will.
(39:24):
They're where that salt,depending on where it is on
their body, and salt tends to benaturally a hydrophilic, which
means it brings water towards it.
And if my clients have reallysweaty spaces around that salt,
(39:45):
I generally recommend you mightwant to bring more salt, natural
salts, into your world, becauseyour body's trying to get it
one way or another and it's notgetting it in certain places.
So, whether that's switching toHimalayan salt stone, himalayan
salt as a shaker, or switchingor including more seed in your
(40:06):
life, so that's generally how Ibring herbs into my practice.
Right now I'm consideringdeveloping that more in a
written form and having that besomething that I can do more
with in an email kind of way, sothat way they could get a
(40:30):
monthly update on.
Like you know, this is your sun, moon and sign, sun moon and
ascendant signs and the herbsthat might be involved in that.
But then there's also theflavor of what we're dealing
with during this time.
So, as we like, for example, inthis particular day, we're sort
of coming towards the end ofcancer season and about to go
(40:51):
into Leo season, and herbs canbe supportive of those
particular seasons, so thoseparticular times in in the year.
So so, yeah, so I am inconstantly thinking about those
realms.
True to my sun sign, gemininature, I love learning.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
That's awesome.
What a wonderful way to do it.
I think the thing that peopledon't realize one of the
complexities with herbalism isthat sometimes we have to go
about serving our clients wherewe practice other modalities, in
a very different way because wecan't be seen like a lot.
We have a lot of students whoare nurses and they want to work
(41:33):
with.
But they have to say, okay, thisis not my nursing hat, this is
my, you know, and they have tobe really intentional about it
because, quite frankly, theworld doesn't really seem to
like herbalist all that much insome ways, you know.
I mean, look, there's alwaysthe people that like go way out
of bounds and are like this iswhat cures Ebola, it's a scent
(41:54):
stick you can get on Pinterestor whatever it's like.
No, that's really not happening.
So there is always an element,but there's an element in every
art Right and sometimes, likemassage therapist and
acupuncturist and acupressure, Imean they really have to think
about connecting and helpingtheir clients in another way so
(42:16):
they can stay within theparameters of the guidelines of
the industry that they work in.
That people understand thatthat we really have to go
through a lot of intention tohelp people get to where they
are and to help people.
You know access services and youknow herbalism can be part of
(42:41):
your referral source.
You know we always have likesources to help people go
elsewhere, and so I'm reallyhappy that you illustrated that.
I think a lot of people willfind that really helpful when
they think about it in referenceto.
You know their careers and whatthey're thinking about in
reference to their practice.
So thank you for sharing that.
Or now, so I should probablylet you go so you can get back
(43:13):
to your regular life, whichsounds wonderful.
It sounds like you've got a lotof great people around you who
love the work that you do, so Ithink that's great.
We, of course, love you being astudent, so we're always
thrilled about all of that, buthow can people find you if they
want to work with you?
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Oh yeah, wonderful you.
Oh yeah, wonderful, um.
So the easiest place to go.
Excuse me, I'm sorry, sorry, um, I'm gonna have to grab a drink
of water here, just go for it,I'll sit.
I'll sit over here and prattle,all right so, yeah, so the
(43:50):
easiest place to go is to findmy website, ancientflowcom, that
is A-N-C-I-E-N-T-F-L-O-W,youtube, facebook, instagram and
(44:16):
LinkedIn.
My personal profile on LinkedInhas a bit more information than
the quote business profile, butthey're both there.
So I'm on all of those spaces.
But you can also find that bygoing to agentflowcom and it'll
have the link to the differentsocial media spaces.
I think I'm also oh, I'm onAlignable as well, if somebody's
on there.
I don't do a whole lot withAlignable, but yeah, so those
(44:38):
are my main spaces to find me.
The website definitely hasquite a bit.
It's more of a researcher'swebsite.
I will admit it's not a quickand immediate explanation, but
there's a lot for people toexplore on the website.
Yeah, so those are the topspaces to find me.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Wonderful.
Well, thank you so much forbeing here today, and we will.
So anyone who's listening, wewill have links in the
information so you can find thatyou can always connect with
Heart of Herbs if you heardsomething and you can't find the
link to it, and I can get thatto use.
So thank you so much for beinghere today.
I really appreciate it.
(45:17):
I've learned so much about thework that you do and I wish you
were closer, because so what youdo sounds like perfect.
So, anyways, maybe sometimewhen I'm down in Florida I will
look you up, but thank you somuch for all that you do.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you for being here today.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Thank you so much for offering this up to an
opportunity to talk about thiswork and how wonderful it is and
being able to share more aboutit.
I will say one last thing thatthis particular work can be done
distance wise.
So several of practitioners andI have, during the pandemic in
(45:59):
particular, I did distancehealing sessions.
So it's not a huge part of mypractice at the moment, but it's
definitely something I'm veryopen to.
So it is pretty amazing thatdistance healing is available in
this energetic art and with themedical astrology analysis
(46:19):
that's typically.
I do that typically videothrough video conferencing.
So it's it does open things upas a possibility for those that
might be interested in that kindof work.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yeah, so definitely so listen, if you're interested
in this kind of work.
And now you heard, like I did.
Oh wow, there's a distancecomponent, it's ancientflowcom,
and you know she's had that URLfor a while because you can't
get one.
There's no hyphen, there's nonothing.
People, Ancientflowcom.
Thank you so much for beinghere today.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Thank you.
It was a lovely conversation.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you, okay, bye-bye, bye.
Hi, this is Demetria Clark, the director of Heart of
Herbs Herbal School, and today,on the Heart of Herbs Herbal
School podcast, we are talkingto Christina Cabezas.
Is that right?
Yeah, is that right.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, all right, cool , yeah.
Is that right?
Yeah, all right, cool, allright.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So Christina is a licensed massage therapist with
over 25 years of study andnatural health and healing of
the body.
As an acupressure therapist,christina supports people with
chronic health conditions tostabilize and improve their
quality of life, ultimatelytowards optimizing their health.
Her mission is to transform theentire physical, health and
(00:49):
emotional well-being of herclients.
They work together to feel morebalanced, grounded and
energized, allowing the body andthe mind to continually heal
itself.
Thank you so much for beinghere today.
What an impressive bio.
I'm really excited to talk toyou.
So first things first.
What got you into this kind ofwork?
(01:13):
Like what was your your firstseedling?
I'm going to load a question tostart with.
What's your?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
origin story.
How was your origin story?
Well, it is funny.
(01:41):
I have reflected a bit on thisorigin story.
I can remember I was a GirlScout in middle school and we
were working as a group to tryand get a silver award and
working with this park withinour city and they wanted us to
do little portions to supportthe induction, the creation of
this park.
And I remember being reallydrawn and fascinated by what
plants were in this park andwhat they might be quote, used
for, might be helpful for, andparticularly in the more
(02:05):
medicinal edible realm.
Um, and, and that was that veryfirst like spark, and I
remember even saying somethingto the girl scout leader about
how, like the old medicine womenin in in the, in the native
tribes, and you know.
Then high school happened and Iwas an exchange student in
(02:30):
Germany and distractions ofvarious kinds and sort of
thought I would studyinternational relations or
something along those lines andgot distracted.
And then I started studyingcultural anthropology and that
was a really great fit for thatsort of interest in food and
(02:52):
medicine and the land.
But it was still kind of alittle bit dormant.
It wasn't until mymother-in-law I got married very
young, I was 20.
She was going back to school atthe time to become a midwife, a
certified nurse midwife, andshe headed yeah, yeah, she
(03:13):
didn't end up completing it, itwould have been her second
master's degree because she wasin her fifties and she's like I
just, I just can't.
But she handed me a few bookson what doulas were.
So here I was, at like 21, 22,reading books on doulas and
going doulas, these women whosupport women who are going
(03:34):
through natural childbirth ornot quite so natural, but birth
period.
And that led me to the midwivesin my town.
And when I finally got pregnantat 23, finally they were very
interested in herbs and, ofcourse, and they were lay
(03:57):
midwives or they were in adifferent midwife track, not the
CNM track but but a differentprofessional midwife kind of
track.
And they handed me a book onthe childbearing year by Susan
Weed.
Okay yeah, and I remember beinglike, oh my gosh.
(04:18):
I think my second book wasAviva Bra, aviva Ram's book on
the childbearing year, and Ijust remember just being
completely fascinated by all ofthose things.
I finished my degree inanthropology where I focused on
natural childbirth andbreastfeeding, and so that was
really fun to kind of delve intoa little bit of research around
(04:42):
those worlds and theanthropological implications,
the scientific ramifications ofbeing a woman in a Western world
and breastfeeding or choosingto breastfeed or choosing to
have a natural childbirth.
So those were huge areas ofinterest and I was still trying
(05:05):
to figure it out.
I had thought I would studynatural.
This is ending up a long story,sorry.
Oh, I'm loving it.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I'm loving it.
I have some questions to askyou, like as soon as you're
ready.
Love it.
Oh, I think we just lost you.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
No, oh you just came back.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Okay, all right, perfect we were going to edit
that out or maybe not.
You guys can just deal.
Yeah, silence, it was your timeto reflect.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
It was time to reflect on on on those things
and where I was going.
I I had encountered somebody, Ifound a homeopathic study group
somehow, um and uh, things likethat.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, internet Facebook really screwed up a lot
of those things Right.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And it was in person at a, uh, our local library.
And um, I started going and onetime somebody dropped in.
She she was like 25 years oldand she told me about this
program of study callednaturopathic medicine and she
was headed to Bastyr, I think,out in Washington state to study
(06:40):
to become a naturopathicphysician, which, for those who
are unfamiliar with that track,it is essentially becoming a
medical doctor, but instead ofstudying the Western
pharmaceuticals it is reallystudying herbs and a lot more of
the natural ways of managinghealth.
(07:02):
So that had been a name.
I had child number two and whenhe was about three I decided I
would start making my waytowards that path of
naturopathic physician andstarted really kind of beginning
those prerequisites, because alot of sciences I had kind of
(07:25):
avoided as an anthropologydegree and we decided to move.
There are four at the time, fournaturopathic colleges.
One of them was in Tempe,Arizona, and I had also gotten
involved with Waldorf educationand I had also gotten involved
(07:45):
with Waldorf education.
My kids had gone to Waldorfschools the Waldorf preschool
here, which in the rest of theworld are called Steiner schools
, and there was a Waldorf schoolin Phoenix that had just gone
charter, and there I felt like Iwas going to have my cake and
be able to eat it too.
I could go for graduateprogramming that I was super
(08:08):
excited about, and my kids couldcontinue on on a Waldorf
educational system for free,because my husband is a public
school teacher and so all ofthat was kind of coming together
.
And then baby number threesurprise.
So we went ahead and moved toArizona and so I was about 30
(08:29):
minutes away from the SouthwestSchool of Naturopathic Medicine
and started raising this lastchild, and by the time she was
three and I was starting to getto that place where I would need
to.
I choose to be at home with mylittle ones, but at this point,
(08:49):
when they're about three or four, I start more part-timing it
and doing more things outside.
And I was going to start takingprereqs and I started realizing
that I wasn't feeling well.
I was dealing with a lot ofbackaches, a lot of headaches.
I was really strugglingphysically.
I was tired.
(09:11):
By 9 am I was in this verydepressed state and essentially,
when I went to my naturopathicphysician to get some care and
additional feedback resourcesaround what was happening and
(09:31):
what I was noticing withinmyself, she did some lab work
and she said basically you're inadrenal fatigue, but your labs
aren't showing it yet, so you'rein a good place if you can turn
this around.
So again, depressed, tired, by9 am, which is not good when you
(09:53):
have a three-year-old, aseven-year-old and an
11-year-old Just not a great wayto be functioning.
Waller schools tend to do a bitof parent education and that
school at the time did a lot ofthose kinds of things.
And one Saturday morning in thesame period there was a
practitioner who came and did athree-hour self-help class and
(10:20):
so I went to this class and Iwas blown away with how I felt
by the end of the three hours,so much so that, oh, poor woman,
I was like following her.
She's trying to put everythingin the car.
I'm following her to the carlike totally interrogating how
(10:41):
do I learn more?
Like it was a whole thing.
Unfortunately I've lost touchwith that woman, but if she
hears this, thank you for beingso kind.
Exactly, but, but.
But that class was anintroduction to a Japanese form
(11:02):
of acupressure called Jin ShinJitsu and I was completely blown
away because the depressionlifted, I had energy.
I remember for the next eighthours feeling like I was on this
incredibly natural high withall of this energy.
(11:25):
But I remember also stomping onthe ground and telling my
friends like I feel really,really grounded, but I feel like
I've got all of this energy andI was just.
I felt so amazing andthankfully she did pass some.
The teacher of that three-hourclass passed some information on
, so I called the office thatwas local to me which happens to
(11:48):
also be at the time theinternational office for Jin
Shin Jutsu practitioners inScottsdale, and got hooked up.
And so that's where my pathchanged, because in realizing
that I could learn about thisnatural healing art, using our
fingers, not needles, to supportour natural health without a
(12:16):
whole lot of other things, justfelt like this is my path, is my
path.
And and although the idea ofgoing to naturopathic medical
school if I won a milliondollars, oh, I'd be moving my
husband to Bastyr to go andstudy that.
But the reality is that where Ilive in North Florida, there
(12:38):
are no states nearby, includingFlorida, that licensed
naturopathic physicians and myfamily is in Florida, my
husband's family is in NorthCarolina and part of my family
is in Costa Rica, and so it justwas not going to make financial
the ROI, as they say.
The business people return oninvestment of spending a hundred
(13:00):
thousand to half a million on anaturopathic physician degree
was going to be a little toughoh yeah right, but you're giving
people ROH Turn on their healthby helping them.
So that led me, as I said, tostudy naturopath, to study,
(13:20):
excuse me Jinjinjutsu.
And for most people where Ilive in North Florida they've
never heard of it.
And so I typically say I'm anacupressure therapist, because
that makes a little more sense,it's a little bit easier for
people to understand what'sgoing on, and usually that's my
(13:40):
introduction I'm an acupressuretherapist.
That means fingers, not needles.
That's my introduction.
I'm an acupressure therapist.
(14:01):
That means fingers, not needles.
And then, once it computes,they're like oh, then they get a
sense of it, becauseJinjinjutsu is based in TCM,
traditional Chinese medicine.
In that I will say that reiki,which most people are a little
bit more familiar with, came tothe states at the same time jen
shinjutsu did, but reiki had amuch better promotional uh team
for it than than jen shinjutsudid, so it may have been also
how you pronounce the namesometimes there's simple things,
(14:24):
like people being like I don'tknow how to say that, so I'm
just gonna you know Exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I mean it's funny, but it's definitely like,
sometimes the obvious, likepromotional thing.
You know, you'd be like let'scall it like finger pulse or
something People are like, yeah,I do the finger pulse method or
whatever, right.
And then next thing, you, youknow.
So I have a question real quickand we're backtracking about
(14:51):
did you feel that your initialstudies in cultural anthropology
shaped the way that you, one,raised your children and, two,
thought about health andwellbeing and those dynamics?
Because for me, that I, Istudied some of this in high
school.
I went to an alternative Quakerhigh school and I lived in
(15:13):
communes and stuff, but anyways,I digress there was a lot of
that kind of people who studiedthat kind of stuff and I felt at
least in my case, it completely.
I was just like this is theonly way I'm doing it.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, I will say the degree working, and so I took a
pause after that first one wasborn for eight months and I
joined La Leche League and Ithink it was a dual experience
of being heavily involved in mylocal La Leche League chapter
(15:50):
that met like twice a month andsometimes a little bit more.
They had a regular meeting andthey had a toddler meeting and I
was so I'm such a love to be incommunity with people that I
was like attending it all andlearning and and at the time.
Um, so this is like she wasborn in 96.
(16:13):
um, there was definitely minewas born in 96 too, all right um
and, and so there was a hugeSchilling has its own set of
books that they and that peopletalk about, and so that was an
easy resource, as I was studyinganthropology and really
focusing in on the things thatthe professors were talking
(16:34):
about.
But very few professors talkabout natural childbirth and
breastfeeding.
We can assume many of them aremale and if they're female, many
of them have not had children,and so it can be a little
interesting.
Thankfully, at the time, thechair of the anthropology
department at the University ofFlorida, his wife, was a natural
(16:59):
childbirth educator, so I hadsupport in in looking and in
fact he wanted me to to pursue amaster's or PhD after I
finished the bachelor's, whichwas a high compliment for sure,
absolutely Cool.
So so, yeah, it is definitelyboth of those I did when Alex,
(17:20):
when my child that was born in2000, when he was about two, I
became an LLUG leader and let metell you most of my meetings
that I led, I would bring inthat research of well, this is
what we see in Native culturesand this at things, particularly
in the 1950s, and how sciencewas very much touted as king,
(17:51):
nature not so much.
And how companies and theiradvertisements and how formula
has been very muchscientifically researched and
documented, became the goldstandard for a while, and and so
that has really colored um ourculture, particularly western
(18:17):
cultures, much more and thentransmuted down to second and
third world um cultures as well.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, definitely right.
I remember, um, so I actuallydid a project for one of my
classes, because I started off,called art history and cultural
anthropology were the two thingsthat I was just joking with my
husband this morning that youknow, the two things I'd ever go
back and get like my master'sdegree for is one of those Right
(18:45):
, and I don't have time foreither.
But but I did like a study onbillboards, like putting
billboards all through the stateof New York, cause that's where
my, my husband was in the armyat the time and the department
of defense actually paid me toteach some little breastfeeding
classes really early on.
(19:08):
And that was, and thoseteaching those classes is what
eventually, years later, becameheart of herbs and birth herbs,
that little root of someonebelieving that this very young
person who was breastfeeding youknow, so it's like it's funny
how it's all connected.
But but, um, I find that a lotof herbalists, who seem to enjoy
(19:31):
their jobs on like a differentkind of level, have their roots
in that, like anthropology, andyou know they, they, they look
at things a little bitdifferently.
I don't know if that's beenyour experience, but it sounds
like.
It sounds like all roads ledyou to exactly where you needed
to be at the right time, likethat's really cool that you go
(19:57):
to something at your child'sschool and it becomes what is
now your career.
How long have you been doingthis?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
that class was October of 2007.
Um, so I immediately the nextsort of professional kind of
leading track was in May of 2008.
And they usually recommendtaking one of those classes
(20:24):
five-day classes once every yearuntil you finish the three
those those taking them threetimes to become what they
officially call a studentpractitioner, because we're
always a student and that's whyshe used that term.
Many of us practitioners justsay we kind of drop the student
(20:45):
because it's just confusing tothe general public.
But but I didn't, I wasn't verypatient and so so I so I took
that May 2008 class in inScottsdale, because that was
close by Well, wouldn't you knowit?
About six months later, tucsonhad a class and I signed up for
(21:09):
that.
So five day I'm like I'm, I'mgonna find a place to stay with
some people and um, and I'mheading down to that class.
So five days down in Tucson totake that second class, and then
Scottsdale did that third, didanother class May of 2009.
(21:32):
And so I completed that in Mayof 2009 and took a few other
classes in between as well.
So, yeah, and I prettyregularly, about every year,
take another class in varioustopics within Jinjinjutsu world.
I've actually even traveled,traveled to different places.
(21:54):
I think one time when I was inPhoenix, I went out to Baltimore
and one of my oldest daughtersdid a study abroad in the
Netherlands and I was like, oh,there's a class in Amsterdam,
that's an expense.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I was going to come and visit you.
Yes, in Amsterdam.
That's an expense.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I was going to come and visit you, yes, exactly I
was the only American in thatclass and they were like why are
you here?
I'm like I'm visiting mydaughter and I get to see this
teacher who I've never seenbefore.
So that was a bonus.
But yeah, so this hasdefinitely the acupressure world
(22:33):
.
Jinjin jutsu totally has rockedmy world and so what?
It's been 15, 16, 17 yearssomewhere around there.
I'm not doing the math at themoment, um, math is overrated.
Well, you know, now I will sayit is not typical, uh, within
jinjin jutsu world, to beinterested in herbs, but I had
(22:54):
always kind of been.
As I expressed, you know, thatfirst pregnancy I got really
interested in those herbs.
I didn't know of anybody whowas studying those kinds of
things.
Now today it's so easy to justpop it in the Internet and find
all kinds of things.
Pop it in the internet and findall kinds of things.
But at the time I was raisingchildren, I wasn't willing to be
(23:16):
away for long periods of timeor travel long, long distances.
It was much easier at the timethat my kids were at their ages
for me to just disappear forfive days.
My husband could, you know,hold down the fort.
I think my mother-in-law came acouple of times to help that
hold down the fort, which wasvery sweet and supportive of her
(23:36):
and but but.
So herbs is not a particularlycommon interest within
Jinjinjutsu practitioners but itwas always an interest and I
happened to find out about forme because I'm in Florida and I
happened to find out about forme because I'm in Florida the
(23:57):
Florida Herbal Conference thatwas beginning, I think the first
one was in 2013, 2012,.
Uh, I, one of the things Ilearned in moving back to
Florida is that I had to get amassage license.
It was either that or become aminister.
I decided that I didn't reallywant to do the minister aspect
(24:23):
and I felt like it would be goodto study the body on a much
more physical level.
So massage school I went and Iremember hearing about the
Florida massage, florida herbalconference and I was like Ooh,
and I'd always been a big fan oflearning herbscom, um, I think
our fairies.
We were part of thatinauguration inaugural class of
buying our fairies, um and um.
(24:46):
I think maybe some of his earlyadvertisers may have included
myself and the kids, but but soyou know, going to the third
conference was was reallyfascinating.
Emily Ruff, who founded thatconference, happened to come up
to Gainesville to the massageschool and to do a little
(25:07):
afternoon class with one of theother faculty members at the
massage school and I had aconversation with her and she
offered the potential to worktrade and I was like, yes, sign
me up for work trading at theFlorida herb conference and I
would love to be about togetherwith the teaching team.
That would be amazing and Ihave been on the teaching team
(25:32):
moderating the Florida HerbConference ever since.
That's great, that's awesome.
So for me, herbs have been moreof a personal interest.
I mean there are pictures of memaking fire cider with the kids
.
Oh, I want to say aroundmassage school timeframe.
So love 2011.
(25:53):
And then I started getting intomaking lotion bars and salve and
making a long RosemaryGladstar's recipe of making a
face cream.
So those are regulars of whathappens in my household is fire
cider.
There's usually a batch or twoof different kinds of fire cider
around the house and there'slotion bars.
(26:15):
So if I ever come to visit you,you're likely to get a bar of
my lotion bar and maybe a littletravel thing.
I'm telling all my secrets hereof herbal salve first aid,
neosporin kind of alternativeherbal salve, you know, first
(26:36):
aid, neosporin kind ofalternative.
And then which.
I love having those things inmy travel kit and that's usually
how I introduce it to peoplelike this is great for travel.
It's the hard lotion and what'sthis, and people still don't
know what hard lotion is, butit's such a great thing.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Oh yeah, absolutely Right.
It's like you know, like Ithink one of the assignments we
have I'm not sure if you've doneyours yet or not is the herbal
first aid kit.
You know, cause it's like youjust kind of like, I mean, I
have one, I take them to travel.
I have one like in our RV.
There's another one that likeif I go to my kid's house, I
(27:09):
have, you know, I always havestuff in the car and like what
is this?
And you know what this is.
You've been seeing it since youwere two, but you know right
you know how kids are, so anywayfor sure I.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I have this in my little purse, this little round.
It's looked like a pencil caseand that's in my purse all the
time and it has some salve in alittle teeny bottle of tea tree
oil, a little teeny bottle oflavender essential oil, and then
it has like, oh, bitters,because I tend to need bitters,
so a little spray bitters.
(27:41):
I have my own little first aidkit that I carry around and then
I have an entire cabinet oflike herb teas, herbs and
various different kinds.
Yeah.
So it is definitely, um, yeahthings for me to to have herbal
first aid situations availableall over.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
yeah, you always need something.
You know for sure you might aswell just make it yourself and
and you know you know might aswell just make it yourself and,
and you know, get it done Right.
So let's see.
So we kind of talked about wheninspired you and fascinated you
.
And so what do you think is oneof the the best aspects of your
(28:30):
herbal work that you enjoy themost?
Like what is something thatjust every time you do it it
brings you joy, Like I love.
And this is probably so simpleand easy, but people are always
like what is something you Ilove making my little morning, I
do a little bit of cidervinegar in the morning and then,
but mine has turmeric andginger in it and I just like
(28:54):
that.
I like the way it makes me feel.
It's like my little thing,that's just mine.
No one else touches it, youknow, and and it's so simple and
it's so easy and I feel like itmakes such a difference in my
outlook, my day, like everything, and people are like, oh, like
they want it to be somethingreally complicated and I'm like
(29:15):
no, there's, I have nocomplications, I am not a
complicated person.
You know, like I want to notfeel sad in the wintertime, I
take a bath and then covermyself in sesame oil and I get
out and then I feel better.
You know people are like what Ihave?
No, I have no sexy remedies.
I'm like so simple, sopractical, so what is like your
(29:39):
thing?
You know the thing that youlove the most about when you you
know an herbal remedy orsomething like difference in
your life.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Well, for me, I love making my, my face cream.
It is and and so and.
For me that's a daily ritual,because I get out of the shower
in the morning and I'm latheringmyself in that face cream.
That is cause I tend towardsdryness.
I have curly hair, I I tend tohave much more of a drier
(30:10):
complexion, and so having thisreally rich and, um, essentially
edible kind of face, cream itis.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
It's called face cream, but everyone who makes it
is like you know.
They put it in their container,whatever version they make of
it.
And then it's like you havethis empty blender now that's
covered with, and you're likeyou end up putting it all over
your body in the kitchen.
You know everything in the housethat you touch smells like it.
(30:41):
Right, oh, for sure.
Isn't there some for anyoneelse?
No, no, I just used to make itlike um, I use different stuff
now, but I used to make it likejust massive like amounts at a
time because I would was livingin Vermont, my skin was really
dry.
Yeah, couldn't handle the woodstove and uh you know, so I get
(31:05):
it.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
But right, that's a good addiction to have totally
my face cream and I'm about torun out because I made a lot of
little containers.
I'm always looking for littlecontainers and you know running
them through the dishwasher tosanitize them before I make them
, and so, like my lotion bar andthe first day it's half I keep
in the freezer until I gift themout.
But the face cream can't bedone that way, it can't be
(31:27):
frozen, so I leave them in thefridge in one of my I have two
fridges I leave them in thefridge.
So that way then.
But I've handed them all outand so I'm like I just made.
When they don't give you thecontainers back always, and they
don't that was my mother's daything, was like mother's day
weekend.
I'm like I'm making face cream.
(31:47):
Whoever's gonna be here,whether it's my two daughters or
sometimes my sister, will comeover and it's everybody like
wear shorts or a dress thateverybody can lather up all the
things and put in all thecontainers.
So yeah, that is definitelylike my daily ritual of using my
face cream.
But lately I've really gotteninto a sort of coffee
(32:09):
alternative, um, sort of, tostart the day, and I am
completely and utterly addictedto cacao.
Um, the darker the better.
I love that better, um, and andso I, I um have a blend by a
local um herb shop.
She makes this lovely blendcoffee sort of alternative with
(32:31):
adaptogens and it has cacao,roasted dandelion, chicory,
chaga, ashwagandha, macau,cinnamon and ginger.
And then I add an additionalteaspoon of drinking chocolate
by another herbalist named RatsaRatsa chocolate out of Tarpon
(32:52):
Springs, and so a teaspoon ofeach of those, and that's how,
literally, I have been gettingmy morning.
Let it brew for 30 minutes andI'm really glad to have those
adaptogenic herbs and a littlebit of that toasted and dark
(33:14):
richness without having anysugar, and I know that it's
going to also support mydigestion, which is always in
something that I need.
So the little bit of ginger ishelping me with that, and the
cinnamon as well.
So so, yeah, those are twodifferent things, but all of
(33:38):
those are on the personal level.
In terms of how I use herbs, Imean, definitely it's around the
house and I grow things.
We live on a third of an acresuburban kind of lot, about four
miles from the University ofFlorida, and I've got echinacea
in the front lawn along withsome different hibiscuses, and
I've got a huge rosemary bush,and then in the back I've got,
(33:59):
you know, a peach tree and I'vemade peach leaf tea and tincture
as well, and I've got mulberryand I've got some comfrey
growing back there, which isawesome, and you know basil, of
course, a few different kinds ofbasil, thai basil and Genovese
basil and those kinds of things.
So again, all of that is on thepersonal level.
(34:21):
On a professional level, itgets tricky because I have a
massage license and so when I'mdoing body work I'm not supposed
to talk about other things orprescribe or blah, blah, blah.
So that has been a challengebecause it is definitely an
(34:42):
interest of mine to be able tosupport my clients much more on
the like what I would considerthat, that edible level of herbs
, that that that nurturing,nourishing level of herbs not
the more heroic kinds of herbsand so how to support my clients
(35:06):
with simple little things thatthey can do and bring into their
world has been a little bit ofa challenge, but one of the
things that I've started.
I started doing this about fouror five years ago.
I realized that within myacupressure tradition there were
connections to astrology and Ireally delved into that
(35:29):
astrological connection with thedifferent parts of the body,
and so for my clients that comeand see me in the office but I
also actually, when I do thesesessions, I do them online, even
for my in-person clients Istarted doing medical astrology
(35:50):
analysis on my clients.
So, getting their birthinformation that includes the
time of birth, the place, thelocation of the birth, not just
the date, so those threedynamics, and then looking into
creating a natal chart, as it'sdescribed, and then really
(36:13):
flipping it and looking at whatJinchen Jutsu says about those
astrological connections and thebody connections.
And so this document reallygoes very in-depth on how, based
on a number of factors,generally speaking, a bigger
(36:33):
focus on the ascendant, the sunsign and the moon sign Really
looking at those three factorsand more tailoring acupressure,
simple acupressure for myclients to be able to do on
themselves in between detailed,longer sessions with me.
(36:55):
And so this is where I canbring in the herb elements,
because once I have thatinformation of what I call their
constitutional tendencieswithin their body, then I can
kind of look and go okay, so I'mnoticing this.
For example, my sun sign isGemini.
(37:17):
Geminis tend to need a littlebit of support around digestion,
stomach, and so bitters arepart of my life.
There's two bottles of bitterthere.
I think I got another threebottles behind this wall Like I
can probably.
There's probably eight bottlesof bitters, little bottles of,
(37:38):
around within a 15 yard radiusof me, and so that supports my,
my Gemini nature, but that's notthe whole story, so so that's
kind of.
You know how I tend to go withmy clients is like, okay, you
have this, this and this, butthen there's this other aspects
(37:59):
of element, there's a bit more,but by the end of it they also
have recommendations of.
Based on these things, thisherb might be a really great
thing to start bringing intoyour life on a more regular
basis, or I'm noticing thiswithin your bodywork sessions
things that you're complainingabout.
How about we consider XYZ herb?
(38:24):
Or even I use Himalayan saltstones with my clients, and what
is the very first herb that welikely, as a species, used?
It's not really an herb, it's amineral, but it's salt.
And what herb do you see on orquote in quotes?
(38:45):
We've gone to wars for salt.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
We conquered or colonized or traveled the world
for salt.
I mean, you know they werelooking for unknown herbs.
When they decided to explore,they were looking for salt and
then other things, you know.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
But Right, the word salary comes from.
Its origin is in salt.
Its origin is in salt.
So but?
But with my clients I usecarved Himalayan salt stone, so
it's a very highly pure salt,and I place it on their body and
so sometimes I will notice thatthey will.
(39:24):
They're where that salt,depending on where it is on
their body, and salt tends to benaturally a hydrophilic, which
means it brings water towards it.
And if my clients have reallysweaty spaces around that salt,
(39:45):
I generally recommend you mightwant to bring more salt, natural
salts, into your world, becauseyour body's trying to get it
one way or another and it's notgetting it in certain places.
So, whether that's switching toHimalayan salt stone, himalayan
salt as a shaker, or switchingor including more seed in your
(40:06):
life, so that's generally how Ibring herbs into my practice.
Right now I'm consideringdeveloping that more in a
written form and having that besomething that I can do more
with in an email kind of way, sothat way they could get a
(40:30):
monthly update on.
Like you know, this is your sun, moon and sign, sun moon and
ascendant signs and the herbsthat might be involved in that.
But then there's also theflavor of what we're dealing
with during this time.
So, as we like, for example, inthis particular day, we're sort
of coming towards the end ofcancer season and about to go
(40:51):
into Leo season, and herbs canbe supportive of those
particular seasons, so thoseparticular times in in the year.
So so, yeah, so I am inconstantly thinking about those
realms.
True to my sun sign, gemininature, I love learning.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
That's awesome.
What a wonderful way to do it.
I think the thing that peopledon't realize one of the
complexities with herbalism isthat sometimes we have to go
about serving our clients wherewe practice other modalities, in
a very different way because wecan't be seen like a lot.
We have a lot of students whoare nurses and they want to work
(41:33):
with.
But they have to say, okay, thisis not my nursing hat, this is
my, you know, and they have tobe really intentional about it
because, quite frankly, theworld doesn't really seem to
like herbalist all that much insome ways, you know.
I mean, look, there's alwaysthe people that like go way out
of bounds and are like this iswhat cures Ebola, it's a scent
(41:54):
stick you can get on Pinterestor whatever it's like.
No, that's really not happening.
So there is always an element,but there's an element in every
art Right and sometimes, likemassage therapist and
acupuncturist and acupressure, Imean they really have to think
about connecting and helpingtheir clients in another way so
(42:16):
they can stay within theparameters of the guidelines of
the industry that they work in.
That people understand thatthat we really have to go
through a lot of intention tohelp people get to where they
are and to help people.
You know access services and youknow herbalism can be part of
(42:41):
your referral source.
You know we always have likesources to help people go
elsewhere, and so I'm reallyhappy that you illustrated that.
I think a lot of people willfind that really helpful when
they think about it in referenceto.
You know their careers and whatthey're thinking about in
reference to their practice.
So thank you for sharing that.
Or now, so I should probablylet you go so you can get back
(43:13):
to your regular life, whichsounds wonderful.
It sounds like you've got a lotof great people around you who
love the work that you do, so Ithink that's great.
We, of course, love you being astudent, so we're always
thrilled about all of that, buthow can people find you if they
want to work with you?
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Oh yeah, wonderful you.
Oh yeah, wonderful, um.
So the easiest place to go.
Excuse me, I'm sorry, sorry, um, I'm gonna have to grab a drink
of water here, just go for it,I'll sit.
I'll sit over here and prattle,all right so, yeah, so the
(43:50):
easiest place to go is to findmy website, ancientflowcom, that
is A-N-C-I-E-N-T-F-L-O-W,youtube, facebook, instagram and
(44:16):
LinkedIn.
My personal profile on LinkedInhas a bit more information than
the quote business profile, butthey're both there.
So I'm on all of those spaces.
But you can also find that bygoing to agentflowcom and it'll
have the link to the differentsocial media spaces.
I think I'm also oh, I'm onAlignable as well, if somebody's
on there.
I don't do a whole lot withAlignable, but yeah, so those
(44:38):
are my main spaces to find me.
The website definitely hasquite a bit.
It's more of a researcher'swebsite.
I will admit it's not a quickand immediate explanation, but
there's a lot for people toexplore on the website.
Yeah, so those are the topspaces to find me.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Wonderful.
Well, thank you so much forbeing here today, and we will.
So anyone who's listening, wewill have links in the
information so you can find thatyou can always connect with
Heart of Herbs if you heardsomething and you can't find the
link to it, and I can get thatto use.
So thank you so much for beinghere today.
I really appreciate it.
(45:17):
I've learned so much about thework that you do and I wish you
were closer, because so what youdo sounds like perfect.
So, anyways, maybe sometimewhen I'm down in Florida I will
look you up, but thank you somuch for all that you do.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you for being here today.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Thank you so much for offering this up to an
opportunity to talk about thiswork and how wonderful it is and
being able to share more aboutit.
I will say one last thing thatthis particular work can be done
distance wise.
So several of practitioners andI have, during the pandemic in
(45:59):
particular, I did distancehealing sessions.
So it's not a huge part of mypractice at the moment, but it's
definitely something I'm veryopen to.
So it is pretty amazing thatdistance healing is available in
this energetic art and with themedical astrology analysis
(46:19):
that's typically.
I do that typically videothrough video conferencing.
So it's it does open things upas a possibility for those that
might be interested in that kindof work.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yeah, so definitely so listen, if you're interested
in this kind of work.
And now you heard, like I did.
Oh wow, there's a distancecomponent, it's ancientflowcom,
and you know she's had that URLfor a while because you can't
get one.
There's no hyphen, there's nonothing.
People, Ancientflowcom.
Thank you so much for beinghere today.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Thank you.
It was a lovely conversation.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you, okay, bye-bye, bye.
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