October 3, 2025 • 37 mins
In this conversation, Demetria Clark welcomes Naomi Kilbreth, RH (clinical herbalist) of Laurel Tree Wellness. Naomi traces her path from teenage assistant to home-birth midwife, to homeschooling mom, and full-time clinician. We dive deep into long-COVID—why symptoms vary so widely, the role of prior viral exposures (think EBV/shingles), and why nervous-system signs matter. Naomi shares practical ways to vet an herbalist, the lifestyle foundations she checks first (sleep, stress, and lymph), and introduces The Herbal Collective, an online library and community that organizes her classes, downloads, and weekly live sessions.
Connect with Naomi• Website: LaurelTreeWellnessLLC.com• Instagram: @LaurelTreeWellness
Connect with Demetria / Heart of Herbs• Programs & resources: www.heartofherbs.com
Topics• Herbal origin stories & birthwork roots• Individualized care for long-COVID (no one-size-fits-all)• Dormant virus reactivation, athletes, and “healthy before COVID” cases• Nervous-system clues (tongue/uvula) & why they matter• How to find a qualified herbalist• The Herbal Collective: free “Lite” tier, memberships, weekly gatherings
Disclaimer: Educational content only; not medical advice. Please work with your healthcare providers.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Hi, are you there? Hello.
You're muted. Sorry.
Hi, this is Demetria Clark, the director of Hard of Verbs Herbal
School. And this is the Heart of Verbs
(00:26):
Herbal School podcast. I know it's a mouthful.
Today we're talking to Naomi Kilbreath.
She's a registered herbalist with the American Herbalist
Guild. She is the owner of Laurel Tree
Wellness LLC and her website is Laurel Tree wellnessllc.com.
We'll put that in the in the description and then the bio so
(00:47):
you can find her because you're definitely going to want to
connect with her after we talk to her today, she's going to
chat about her herbal story, share with her her work with
long COVID, which is a subject that I feel like a lot of people
are talking about, but a lot of people don't know where to go
next. And her new project, the Herbal
(01:08):
Collective, an online platform that houses all of her
educational content. So if you connect with anything
that she's saying, we're going to have the link in the bio.
So you can definitely check her out.
Good morning, Naomi, thank you so much for being here.
And I hope I didn't massacre your last name too badly.
(01:28):
Dorian, thanks for having me on your show.
Yes, you said it just fine. Wonderful.
So what is your herbal story? How did you come to herbalism?
Because you've made this your life.
Yes, well, that is That's true. It did not start that way, but
the roots of working in the health field certainly were.
(01:52):
My mom was very health conscious, and so I remember
from an early age being aware that our food and what we ate
was very important. She made a lot of our food from
scratch. So homemade meals were the
normal for us. And I remember, you know, taking
our vitamins. And then when we got sick, there
(02:13):
was a lot of, you know, the teasand we'd work with the echinacea
and I think elderberry was one of them.
So those were some of my earliest memories regarding
health. It wasn't until much later that
I was actually introduced to herbs.
But my earliest introduction to the health field was around
(02:37):
birth. I had read a book when I was a
kid, I don't remember what it was, but there was a mention
about home birth and home birth midwives.
And I thought, wouldn't it be cool if there were still home
birth midwives? And I had no idea that that was
a thing. But I started talking about that
(02:59):
with my loved ones and was connected with a local home
birth midwife. And so I started following her
around. She kind of had me as like, a
little assistant, you know, I was 13 when I started working
with her. That's so cool.
Yeah. I had so much fun and I thought
(03:21):
that was it. I'm going to be a home birth
midwife. I I started training as a doula.
And during that experience was when I learned about, because of
course, a lot of midwives will work with herbs and that's how I
learned about nutritional infusions and dandelion and
nettle and red Raspberry and allof those things.
(03:43):
And so I just thought, you know,at the time, like teaser mostly
just for people who don't like drinking coffee or something,
you know, like this is, this is what we drink for flavor.
But it was true that experience that I learned that there's,
there's a lot to this whole herbal thing, you know, so
that's kind of my, my earliest introduction.
(04:06):
But when I had my first child, Iwas almost 20, it was right
before my 20th birthday. And that same midwife had me get
set up with comfrey to make somecomfrey ice packs.
And let me tell you, that was a total game changer.
After my baby was born, I was like, this is the bomb.
(04:29):
The best thing that could have you straight post birth.
And I was like, OK, this comfreyis amazing.
What else can we do with it? And of course, once you ask that
question, the whole world of herbalism, it just, yeah, it
just explodes before you. And so that was my that was my
(04:49):
gateway herb. And things just kind of unfolded
from there. Oh.
That's awesome. It's so funny.
Our stories are not that far apart.
I was at my first birth at 15. OK.
'Cause I had went to an alternative Quaker school and
also lived in a commune, I was no longer living at home, so I
(05:13):
lived at a commune and all the women there were midwives.
So it's just so funny to meet someone.
I mean, you're before me. You got there, you got in there
way before me. That's really amazing.
What a cool experience. Absolutely.
Yeah. That's really neat that you were
also quite young. I remember thinking at the time
that I would have difficulty being able to serve women
(05:37):
because I was young, that I might, you know, be looked down
on for immaturity or things likethat.
But I was blessed with how many women were accepting of my
presence there and thought it was wonderful that I was getting
an early start. And it was just so influential
and how I viewed, you know, being able to make choices for
(06:00):
your healthcare and choosing natural options and finding
local resources and things. So even though I ended up
choosing not to be a home birth midwife, it was it still played
a very important role in my training as an herbalist.
Oh, I believe it. You know, I think it's funny.
I think we're so indoctrinated that young is bad, right?
(06:23):
Or this is your care provider and you have no other choice.
So when we train doulas and they're like, I'm only 19 years
old or I'm only 22, no one's going to take me seriously.
I'm like the the people that youmake feel safe are going to want
to be with you and they're not going to care about your age.
And it's almost like a light bulb.
The first like client, they get that's older and they're like,
(06:46):
Oh my gosh, you're right. And that's probably you were
probably making people feel safe.
You walked in the room, you werea safe presence and nobody looks
at anything other than that safeenergy.
I think in birth and we forget that we have choice over who has
who has domain over our bodies, right?
But we we don't in some ways because of the way, you know,
(07:06):
our healthcare system's set up. But I think that's awesome.
You're able to bring that to thetable and really showcase that
feeling for people. So thank you for being in that
first space and being so safe. Thank.
You, so I mean, from there, you know, I practiced herbalism in
my family. Of course, after the ice packs,
(07:27):
it was all about like, OK, what other herbs can can we work
with? And you know, all of the early
childhood things. I, I went on to have 4 kids and
for each one of them, herbs werejust a natural part of living a
healthy lifestyle and addressingall of those common early
childhood illnesses and minor injuries and things like that.
(07:50):
And so I just kind of took it for granted that this is how,
this is how we do family health.But the the longer that I did
that for, the more my family would start to ask questions or
my friends would start to ask questions.
And I kind of became the the local herbalist for our little
hub. And I didn't even realize that's
(08:10):
what was happening. But around age 28 was when I
finally realized that I was not going to be able to pursue home
birth midwifery and do a little work because it, it just became,
as much as I loved it and enjoyed, it was really hard to
meld the worlds of homeschoolingyour 4 kids and being gone for
(08:33):
three days at a time and not knowing when that's going to
happen. And, and so I closed my doula
business and I started thinking about, well, what else can I do?
Because it really was important to me to have some way to use my
skill set to bless people outside of my family.
(08:54):
And the, you know, I pondered that for a couple of years and
then it occurred to me, wait, I'm already doing something that
I can use. I can just own it, you know,
like this is what I do. And so I decided after you know
what, 10 plus years of working with herbs, that now I'm an
(09:14):
herbalist and, and I started pursuing education, more formal
education around herbalism, which is how I found you.
But you've done so much work. I mean, it sounds to me like, so
I don't know if it at some pointwe say two things like herbalism
(09:36):
chooses you, you don't choose herbalism, right?
And it sounds like that was you.But also if there's an herbalist
on every block, everyone will use an herbalist, right?
And it sounds like you just fit right into both of those blocks.
You were like, OK, challenge accepted.
I'm going to do both of those things.
And I think that's pretty amazing.
So you have been practicing now as an herbalist for how long?
(09:59):
Formally, I should say, because it sounds like me since about 16
with the midwives. Right, right.
Well, come January this coming year, my business, Laurel Tree
Wellness, will have been open for eight years.
Oh my goodness, that's awesome. So how do people find you?
(10:20):
My website is a popular way Laurel wellnessllc.com.
I I've had people Google search and, and find me that way, you
know, local herbalist and I pop up in Maine, which is where I'm
from. And then of course referrals.
I'm also on Instagram so I can share with you the handle there
(10:41):
and and get that out to listeners also.
Oh yeah, So tell us how to find you on Instagram.
Well, the the handle is Laurel tree Wellness, so it's pretty
easy. Awesome.
All right, perfect. And where are you in Maine?
Like what area do you serve? And then do you also serve
clients virtually? Yes, I do both.
It's about half and half. So I see people, I've met with
(11:04):
people outside of our country. So the time zones can be a
little bit tricky, but we do ourbest to make it work.
I have quite a few clients spread across the across the
country, the United States, and then locally I I live in Oxford
County, but I serve people also in Androscoggin County and and
(11:25):
beyond. Basically whoever's willing to
travel out and see me. OK, cool.
That's awesome. That's good to know.
It's good for people to know that they can get you virtually
or in person. I think we're learning a lot
about virtual healthcare and, and how we can use that to, to
help each other. So I'm glad that you offered
(11:46):
that. So how often do you see clients?
Do you see clients? I mean, are you, are you 5 days
a week? You know, if people want to get
in touch with you or do they, ordo you schedule online?
How do they? How do they get you?
That's a great question. So I see people five days a
week. I do have set hours that I I
(12:07):
work during so that I also protect my family time 'cause
I'm still homeschooling 3 of my kids.
Wonderful. Isn't that fun?
Yes, it's a, it's a challenge, but I I love challenges, so it's
a good fit. So homeschooling has been such a
(12:27):
blessing. Well, it's funny, as a another
homeschooling mom, I'll have to just shortly tell you this story
because you'll get it. So we unschooled and one of my
children is he's a fire captain now.
He went through the fire Academy, went up, he's a
captain. So anyways, he calls me from the
fire Academy one day because he's really, really kicked off
(12:49):
at me because I didn't teach them the ratios of fire
suppression foam at home school.And I was like, wait, does
anyone else know this? And he's like, well, yeah.
And I was like, is this their first time through?
No. I was like, nobody knows this in
high school. So I didn't miss out on it.
(13:11):
And I think they were giving up.They were teasing them, maybe
saying that they learned in highschool or something.
I was like, no, nobody learns that in high school.
So as a homeschool mom, when they come back at you, it's
going to be something funny. Like you didn't tell me that you
could make the Eiffel Tower out of cookies or something and
you'll be like, wait, what? You know?
(13:31):
So anyway, so I just thought I think that was funny.
The way that the way that they look back on homeschooling is
really funny sometimes. So I think that's a real
balancing act. So you probably work great with
families that are trying to balance multiple.
I I mean, I'm saying roles, but it's probably, that's probably
just a simplification. Like, you know, parents who are,
(13:54):
you know, have, even have kids in school and then they're going
to activities and you know, thatkind of busyness.
So if someone comes to you and they're like, I'm so busy, I'm
so this, you're like, Oh, I knowwhat that feels like.
So hang on, let's hold my teeth.We're going to get this figured
out. So I think that's great.
I think that's really wonderful that you can offer that kind of
(14:14):
understanding to people. And Speaking of understanding
and multiple balancing multiple things, you're working with
people now with long COVID. And so do you have a protocol
that you're using with them or is it very individualized
approach? Because this is something I know
I don't see tons and tons of clients, but the ones that I see
(14:38):
are, are often in these categories.
And so I think it's really important work.
And I think we're not gonna evenknow the ramifications and the
importance of this work for another 20 years.
So I would love to hear like what you can offer individuals
who are dealing with this because I think this is
something that's really scary for people.
(14:59):
Sure is. It's, you know, it's a new
experience for all of us, even those who are simply witnesses
to those suffering from long haul COVID because we grew up
with the stomach flu and strep and things like that.
But those are familiar and we know what to expect.
Coronaviruses are not new necessarily, but the specific
(15:21):
type SARS COV 2 is unfamiliar. And so this is something that a
lot of herbalists have had to face and decide how are we going
to handle this? You know, and there's been a lot
of research going on and it's, I've been so blessed to be
witness to and learn from other herbalists who have also
experimented to try to find, OK,what's going to work for these
(15:45):
clients. I'm, I normally work with people
who have chronic illnesses. That's something that I do
specialize in people who have autoimmune conditions and
allergies and metabolic concernsand things.
And so it made sense that that same group of people would then,
(16:05):
you know, call on for support, support in dealing with long,
long COVID. And so usually by the time
people come to me, they've already tried other things and
they've been to their doctor andthey're not finding any relief
from the options that have been made available to them.
And so then we start looking at,well, what are some herbs that
can be useful? What are some nutritional
(16:28):
approaches that we can take? And so it's, it has been a
challenge to try to, to find answers for these folks.
I find that for the most part, it does need to be customized
because everybody's different. You know, a huge part of what I
do and what have a lot of other herbalists do is look at the
energetic state of a person. And often times we, we come to
(16:53):
the point of illness, we arrive at that that point prior to our
illness with completely different backgrounds and
energetics help us to figure outwhere they're coming from and
what their body actually needs. So then we can match those herbs
to the person. But I also think that
understanding the root cause forthem is also important.
(17:14):
You know, one of the, the root causes that a lot of people talk
about is, is that if there were pre-existing health issues for
someone that they're more likelyto have trouble recovering from
any kind of virus, but especially Kovid.
And, and so we will look at the timeline of events for this
(17:35):
person and, and we will ask, youknow, what else was going on
prior to getting sick with Kovid.
And so that we can not only helpto correct, you know, possible
damage that was caused by the virus, but also what was the,
the groundwork that, you know, laid the stage for that virus to
kind of get out of control and work on those underlying issues.
(17:59):
So that's a pretty common situation, a common approach,
but there's other possible root causes as well that I get a lot
of questions about. So I don't know if you want to
jump into those a little bit, but we could talk about some of
the root causes, I would. I would love to hear your
perspective on on any, anything to help other people.
(18:21):
And honestly, I love the fact that you're, you're saying, hey,
it's an individualized approach,not like take this, this and you
know, I, you know, it just because it's, it is, it is new
for everyone, but it's also new for their body, right?
Their bodies are not dealt with this.
So yeah, let it RIP. Let us let us hear all of your
(18:42):
wisdom. Well, part of it too is that
long haul COVID expresses itselfdifferent for, for people.
And so some people will experience, you know, those
dysautonomia type symptoms wherethey're they have dizzy spells
and they feel lightheaded and, or brain fog, memory issues.
And then you have others who endup with digestive issues.
(19:05):
Gastritis is, is a common one that ends up happening chronic
fatigue. And so it looks different for
everybody, which is why I feel so strongly that we can't just
give a blanket statement approach and tell everybody to
take the same herbs because it just doesn't, it doesn't
necessarily apply to them. But then looking at those root
(19:27):
causes, I think is also really important.
And I think it is, it is a, it'svery easy.
It's very tempting to assume that someone, if they're
struggling with long Covic, thatthey must have had a preexisting
condition, right? Like they must have had
diabetes, they must have had hypertension, they must have had
one of those things that we blame these chronic symptoms on.
(19:48):
But it's not always the case. I've had a number of long haul
COVID clients who were in wonderful health before getting
sick. They were active, they ate
wonderful, They, you know, ate organic foods and they had no
chronic illnesses at all. And yet they got sick.
So what exactly? Yeah.
(20:11):
Yeah, like it's surprising, you know, based on what they say,
you know, like surprising numberof athletes and a surprising
number of men who now are experiencing like fibromyalgia
symptoms where fibromyalgia was primarily a female, they at
least diagnosed for for females,right.
And so I think it's interesting that you pointed that out that
(20:31):
it that isn't, you know, we liketo say, oh, it's you.
You earned it, but you know, butit's not, it doesn't work that
way with this. So I think it's really good that
you pointed that out. Thank.
You. Yeah, absolutely.
I think that it's possible that COVID itself, the acute
infection could be worse among those who were sick prior to
(20:52):
getting infected. Their resilience is lower and
their immune strength is lower. But the long haul COVID symptoms
are a completely separate ball of wax.
This is this is a new game and it's not always related to the
severity of the acute infection.So it really has to be treated
(21:13):
as its own thing. And it does seem to target a
different group of people, including those athletes, those
really strong, healthy people you would not expect to be sick.
So there's a few other theories about why that happens.
One of them that I've seen quitea bit of research on is that
it's waking up dormant viruses that the.
(21:35):
Yeah, that the acute infection when somebody gets sick with
COVID, that whatever hidden or dormant virus was already
present that was not symptomaticnow becomes unleashed.
You know, So we have, you know, we have like strep or not strep
(21:58):
chicken pox, you know, chicken pox somebody had in the past and
then they they end up with shingles and, and why is that
happening? That happened to me post COVID,
you know, and, and it wasn't right in the wake of it, But did
that happen because I had COVID?Maybe, maybe not.
Maybe it increased my risk, But that is an example of something
that can be woken up. Epstein, Barr.
(22:20):
People What? About Mono.
Yeah. Yeah, like people who've had,
I'm wondering if it's more to, there's something to do with the
spleen. Like this mono can really affect
the spleen. Like that's just like some
things that have been going through my head when I'm you had
mono. Yeah, I had mono when I was 13.
I was like, ah, OK, so that's why I'm experiencing Monolith.
(22:41):
I, I don't know if it's all linked or whatever.
I didn't mean to interrupt you, but like you're saying that like
the amount of people with shingles is like just
astronomical in their 30s. You know, like you weren't
really, nobody got you shingles like the old man disease, right?
It's like, you know, you were old man, you got shingle.
You know, it was not like, but I'm seeing so many, even late
(23:03):
teens. Early. 20s people with shingles.
And so I love that you are making this connection and like
bringing this up and and encouraging people to think more
circularly about this kind of stuff.
So thank you. I didn't mean to.
No, that's that's great. Mono is a is a perfect example.
That's a very common one. Earlier on in the research that
(23:25):
was being done on COVID, they found that people who were
testing for all kinds of infections to find out like what
are my symptoms even coming from?
They didn't really know what long haul COVID was at the time
because it was so early in the in the game, but they were
discovering people had active Epstein Barr, which develops
from the same virus that causes mono.
(23:45):
It's just a, a later variation of and, and so then the question
became, well, is it COVID or is it Epstein Barr?
And, and I think for some people, it is possible it could
actually be Epstein Barr becausethe, the symptoms are very
similar, but I think it also cancoincide.
(24:06):
You can have both at the same time.
And so asking about a client's medical history, you know, did
have you had mono? Have you had chicken pox?
Do you remember having even evenstrep as a kid?
Because these types of infections often don't actually
go away. It's just that they be, they
move into a part of their life cycle that becomes dormant and
(24:29):
the immune system monitors the situation and keeps it under
wrap. But then you have something
brand new that your immune system has to fight.
And it kind of called, it kind of throws everything up in the
air. And now, you know, like we got
to see where does everything land?
It's it can be, it can be a bit of a challenge, Yeah.
(24:51):
So everyone wants to come to theparty.
Right. Exactly, exactly.
So another. Oh, go ahead.
You're going. To Oh, no, no, no, I was just
wowing you. OK, Another question that I
receive a lot from clients is what about the spike protein?
Like what does that have to do with COVID and and long COVID?
(25:15):
So the spike protein I think is really interesting because we
hear it a lot, but do we really know what it is?
And I and I think that's relevant for the conversation.
The spike protein is, is basically a like a, it's like a
Velcro type substance on the outside of the virus that allows
(25:35):
it to attach to other cells. So when a virus wants to
replicate in our bodies, whatever virus that is, it needs
a host in order to provide a safe place to replicate.
And it will do that by having either releasing A substance or
having some type of surface attractant that allows it to
(25:56):
attach to another cell. And so for COVID, that's the
spike protein. And, and unfortunately, the
studies that have been done shown that the spike protein can
linger even after the acute infection is gone.
And so a lot of people ask, well, and that caused long
COVID. And the unfortunate truth is
(26:17):
that it can, it is one of the root causes of long haul COVID,
specifically neurological symptoms, because for whatever
reason, the spike protein seems to remain in the brain tissue in
particular. And the, the longest studies
that have been done so far, because we're, you know, only a
few years out, have shown that it can last for up to four years
(26:40):
inside the body before it clearsout.
And so that's quite a long time.And certainly within that time
frame is when we're experiencingthese long haul symptoms.
So clearing spike proteins can be important because when it's
left behind, it can trigger inflammation, and that whole
inflammatory cascade can be responsible for a lot of the
(27:02):
symptoms that we see there. Thank you so much for taking the
time to explain that to everyone.
So I guess do you have any basicguidelines are assistance for
people on steps they should taketo either get the diagnosis of
long COVID or how to find an herbalist who can actually help
(27:26):
them, Not you know, you know, sell them a prepackaged
whatever, like someone who can actually give them the time.
What would be your suggestions for someone looking for
assistance? Reaching out to herbalist to try
to find someone who can help andasking them, you know, upfront,
(27:47):
do you have experience with helping someone who has long
haul COVID would be appropriate because you know, any kind of
questions you can ask my interview process ahead of time
will help you to get to know theperson and what their style is
and what their experience is andtraining and all of that.
And so I think that probably a lot of clinical herbalists are
(28:08):
going to have experience with, with long haul by now.
But there, there are a lot of options that that can help.
And, and so part of what I do isnot just recommend herbs, but
also look at a person's overall well-being, because everything
that we do influences our health.
(28:29):
And if somebody is, for example,not sleeping well at night,
that's going to prevent them from detoxing, that's going to
impede their their lymphatic function, their immune function.
And so that's just one example of a lifestyle factor that can
be addressed. And so looking at all the things
(28:50):
that make up our daily life, ournutrition, our movement, our
stress level, our community, our, you know, spiritual
well-being, all of those pieces influence our immune system.
And so I like to start by looking at someone's overall
well-being and see, OK, are there areas that we can work on
improving the quality of, whether that's through lifestyle
(29:13):
choices or through nutrition or through herbs?
I do there are tests that you can do.
Most practitioners are are able to test for things like Epstein
Barr, like antigens to different, you know, viruses and
things like that. So you can certainly ask, not
all practitioners will be open to testing.
(29:34):
So you might have to ask around a little bit to, you know, get
the resources that you need. But I have also discovered, at
least from a holistic perspective, that there are a
couple of signs that are very common among people who have
long haul COVID. And to do that, to see those
(29:55):
signs, you have to look in your mouth.
So anybody listening can do thisfor themselves.
But, and I'm sure that a lot of herbalists would also be aware
of this, but one of the signs that I observed is that the
tongue, which is a great pictureof, of what's going on inside of
the body normally is positioned straight, right?
(30:16):
It's it's facing. When you stick your tongue out,
it sticks out straight. When someone has had
neurological damage, often timesthe tongue will appear crooked.
It will actually stick out to one side or the other.
That's most commonly associated with something like a stroke or
Parkinson's. But I've actually been seeing it
(30:37):
in young people after they've experienced COVID.
And so if their tongue has like a crooked tip, you know, it's
like tilted to one side, that's not diagnostic for sure, but it
can indicate that there is some imbalance in the nervous system,
which is one of the most common indicators that you see or areas
(30:58):
of symptoms that you see with somebody who has long haul
Kovid. The other sign that I look for
is a crooked uvula. So when you look in your mouth
and you might have to use a little flashlight to see in the
back of your mouth and you look at the uvula hanging down in
your throat. And usually the arches on either
side are nice and Even so that the uvula hangs down straight.
(31:20):
But with long haul COVID, you sometimes see one side of the
the arch being higher or lower than the other, which makes the
uvula crooked. And again, that's an indicator
for neurological imbalance because the nerves that are
connected to the back of your throat, which control your
tongue position and control the uvula position are also
(31:42):
connected to, you know, all the centers of your brain, Yes, and
other areas of your body via thevagal nerves to that impact a
lot of these symptoms that we'reseeing.
So those are a couple little tricks that somebody can check
for which can kind of help pointyou at least in the right
direction. Oh, I love that.
(32:02):
Thank you for sharing that tip with everyone.
I think that they'll find that really useful.
So we've, we've kept you for over half an hour now and, and,
but I wanted for you to also have the opportunity to share
what you're, you're offering on your website because I looked
(32:23):
real quick and you've got some classes, you have some other
things. So please share that with
everyone so they can find you and really continue to get
inspired by the work that you do.
You, Dimitri. I appreciate that.
So my primary work is in clinical practice one-on-one
with clients, and that's how I spend most of my days when I'm
(32:43):
not homeschooling my kids. And anyone who is interested in
working with me can visit my website.
And there is all the informationthere that you need to get set
up. And you can also contact me
through the website to ask any questions that you like to get
to know me a little bit more before deciding whether or not
I'm the right fit for what you need.
(33:06):
And then I also have right now, I have my podcast, the Family
Herbalism podcast, which I've been running for a few years and
I have about 200 episodes. There's a lot of information in
there. Each one is basically a little
master class on a different subject around health.
And those can be found on any platforms.
(33:26):
The Family Herbalism podcast, now that's actually on its way
out. I'm phasing it out at the end of
the year and transitioning all of that education to my new
platform, The Herbal Collective.So all of the podcasts will be
actually organized by topic or currently organized that way
inside of the Herbal Collective.And I've also over the years
(33:49):
created a number of downloads that I've given away different
PDFs and things. And, you know, they come and go
on the website, but I've, I've had this little stash that I,
that I've been collecting of different handouts.
I bet you have. And so I put those all together
into the Herbal Collective Light, which is the free version
(34:11):
of my new platform. And so anybody can sign up for
that on my website. The classes tab has all of my
educational offerings and that'sright at the top.
And so that's free for anybody, but those who would like more
education can sign up for one ofthe membership options for the
(34:31):
Herbal Collective, which also has a weekly gathering.
So I get together on Wednesday afternoons with anybody who
signs up and wants to join me, and we just talk about things
herbal, and it's based on who's there and what they're
interested in. And so it's a very dynamic
conversation. It's a lot of fun and I I love
that because with the podcast I don't get to enjoy that face to
(34:53):
face connection with people and I really, I really appreciate
that aspect. So the weekly gatherings are
just a fun way to get together and share our love for herbs and
natural health. And I also will be releasing
monthly classes inside the Herbal Collective for they'll be
completely free to members starting in 2026.
(35:14):
And this year I also released a virtual herb walk series that's
in the collective as well. So there's a ton of resources
available for for those who are interested in joining.
Oh, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing
that with everyone. I think it's important for and
everyone's always like you can'tsay that you run an herbal
school, but I think it's important for people to get all
(35:36):
kinds of information from all kinds of teachers from all over
the place, not just, you know, people that pare it back to us,
what we want to hear. Because I think it's we need to
be challenged more in our field and we need to, I have more,
more voices. And I love that you've been
(35:56):
doing this forever. So thank you so much for all of
that work. And I love it sounds like this
is like the coolest space in theworld.
So thank you so much for sharingit with us.
Is there anything else you'd like to share with us before we
let you get back to your busy life?
Well, I just want to say thank you, Demetria for hosting me
(36:18):
today. I've really enjoyed this
conversation, the opportunity tochat with your listeners, and I
look forward to connecting with you and your listeners in the
future. Thank you so much.
You have a wonderful day. Thank you so much for having us.
Where can we find you again? You can find me on on Instagram
at Laurel Tree Wellness and you can find all of my resources and
(36:41):
all the clinical information at Laurel Tree wellnessllc.com.
All right, and we'll have the the links in the bio thingy, the
description so people can find you and we'll also be posting
something on our our Facebook page.
So I'm really excited to have been here today with you.
Thank you so much and have a wonderful, have a wonderful
(37:05):
weekend because the weekend's coming up.
So thank you so much. I really appreciate all your
time. Thank you, Demetria.
Bye bye.
Hi, are you there? Hello.
You're muted. Sorry.
Hi, this is Demetria Clark, the director of Hard of Verbs Herbal
School. And this is the Heart of Verbs
(00:26):
Herbal School podcast. I know it's a mouthful.
Today we're talking to Naomi Kilbreath.
She's a registered herbalist with the American Herbalist
Guild. She is the owner of Laurel Tree
Wellness LLC and her website is Laurel Tree wellnessllc.com.
We'll put that in the in the description and then the bio so
(00:47):
you can find her because you're definitely going to want to
connect with her after we talk to her today, she's going to
chat about her herbal story, share with her her work with
long COVID, which is a subject that I feel like a lot of people
are talking about, but a lot of people don't know where to go
next. And her new project, the Herbal
(01:08):
Collective, an online platform that houses all of her
educational content. So if you connect with anything
that she's saying, we're going to have the link in the bio.
So you can definitely check her out.
Good morning, Naomi, thank you so much for being here.
And I hope I didn't massacre your last name too badly.
(01:28):
Dorian, thanks for having me on your show.
Yes, you said it just fine. Wonderful.
So what is your herbal story? How did you come to herbalism?
Because you've made this your life.
Yes, well, that is That's true. It did not start that way, but
the roots of working in the health field certainly were.
(01:52):
My mom was very health conscious, and so I remember
from an early age being aware that our food and what we ate
was very important. She made a lot of our food from
scratch. So homemade meals were the
normal for us. And I remember, you know, taking
our vitamins. And then when we got sick, there
(02:13):
was a lot of, you know, the teasand we'd work with the echinacea
and I think elderberry was one of them.
So those were some of my earliest memories regarding
health. It wasn't until much later that
I was actually introduced to herbs.
But my earliest introduction to the health field was around
(02:37):
birth. I had read a book when I was a
kid, I don't remember what it was, but there was a mention
about home birth and home birth midwives.
And I thought, wouldn't it be cool if there were still home
birth midwives? And I had no idea that that was
a thing. But I started talking about that
(02:59):
with my loved ones and was connected with a local home
birth midwife. And so I started following her
around. She kind of had me as like, a
little assistant, you know, I was 13 when I started working
with her. That's so cool.
Yeah. I had so much fun and I thought
(03:21):
that was it. I'm going to be a home birth
midwife. I I started training as a doula.
And during that experience was when I learned about, because of
course, a lot of midwives will work with herbs and that's how I
learned about nutritional infusions and dandelion and
nettle and red Raspberry and allof those things.
(03:43):
And so I just thought, you know,at the time, like teaser mostly
just for people who don't like drinking coffee or something,
you know, like this is, this is what we drink for flavor.
But it was true that experience that I learned that there's,
there's a lot to this whole herbal thing, you know, so
that's kind of my, my earliest introduction.
(04:06):
But when I had my first child, Iwas almost 20, it was right
before my 20th birthday. And that same midwife had me get
set up with comfrey to make somecomfrey ice packs.
And let me tell you, that was a total game changer.
After my baby was born, I was like, this is the bomb.
(04:29):
The best thing that could have you straight post birth.
And I was like, OK, this comfreyis amazing.
What else can we do with it? And of course, once you ask that
question, the whole world of herbalism, it just, yeah, it
just explodes before you. And so that was my that was my
(04:49):
gateway herb. And things just kind of unfolded
from there. Oh.
That's awesome. It's so funny.
Our stories are not that far apart.
I was at my first birth at 15. OK.
'Cause I had went to an alternative Quaker school and
also lived in a commune, I was no longer living at home, so I
(05:13):
lived at a commune and all the women there were midwives.
So it's just so funny to meet someone.
I mean, you're before me. You got there, you got in there
way before me. That's really amazing.
What a cool experience. Absolutely.
Yeah. That's really neat that you were
also quite young. I remember thinking at the time
that I would have difficulty being able to serve women
(05:37):
because I was young, that I might, you know, be looked down
on for immaturity or things likethat.
But I was blessed with how many women were accepting of my
presence there and thought it was wonderful that I was getting
an early start. And it was just so influential
and how I viewed, you know, being able to make choices for
(06:00):
your healthcare and choosing natural options and finding
local resources and things. So even though I ended up
choosing not to be a home birth midwife, it was it still played
a very important role in my training as an herbalist.
Oh, I believe it. You know, I think it's funny.
I think we're so indoctrinated that young is bad, right?
(06:23):
Or this is your care provider and you have no other choice.
So when we train doulas and they're like, I'm only 19 years
old or I'm only 22, no one's going to take me seriously.
I'm like the the people that youmake feel safe are going to want
to be with you and they're not going to care about your age.
And it's almost like a light bulb.
The first like client, they get that's older and they're like,
(06:46):
Oh my gosh, you're right. And that's probably you were
probably making people feel safe.
You walked in the room, you werea safe presence and nobody looks
at anything other than that safeenergy.
I think in birth and we forget that we have choice over who has
who has domain over our bodies, right?
But we we don't in some ways because of the way, you know,
(07:06):
our healthcare system's set up. But I think that's awesome.
You're able to bring that to thetable and really showcase that
feeling for people. So thank you for being in that
first space and being so safe. Thank.
You, so I mean, from there, you know, I practiced herbalism in
my family. Of course, after the ice packs,
(07:27):
it was all about like, OK, what other herbs can can we work
with? And you know, all of the early
childhood things. I, I went on to have 4 kids and
for each one of them, herbs werejust a natural part of living a
healthy lifestyle and addressingall of those common early
childhood illnesses and minor injuries and things like that.
(07:50):
And so I just kind of took it for granted that this is how,
this is how we do family health.But the the longer that I did
that for, the more my family would start to ask questions or
my friends would start to ask questions.
And I kind of became the the local herbalist for our little
hub. And I didn't even realize that's
(08:10):
what was happening. But around age 28 was when I
finally realized that I was not going to be able to pursue home
birth midwifery and do a little work because it, it just became,
as much as I loved it and enjoyed, it was really hard to
meld the worlds of homeschoolingyour 4 kids and being gone for
(08:33):
three days at a time and not knowing when that's going to
happen. And, and so I closed my doula
business and I started thinking about, well, what else can I do?
Because it really was important to me to have some way to use my
skill set to bless people outside of my family.
(08:54):
And the, you know, I pondered that for a couple of years and
then it occurred to me, wait, I'm already doing something that
I can use. I can just own it, you know,
like this is what I do. And so I decided after you know
what, 10 plus years of working with herbs, that now I'm an
(09:14):
herbalist and, and I started pursuing education, more formal
education around herbalism, which is how I found you.
But you've done so much work. I mean, it sounds to me like, so
I don't know if it at some pointwe say two things like herbalism
(09:36):
chooses you, you don't choose herbalism, right?
And it sounds like that was you.But also if there's an herbalist
on every block, everyone will use an herbalist, right?
And it sounds like you just fit right into both of those blocks.
You were like, OK, challenge accepted.
I'm going to do both of those things.
And I think that's pretty amazing.
So you have been practicing now as an herbalist for how long?
(09:59):
Formally, I should say, because it sounds like me since about 16
with the midwives. Right, right.
Well, come January this coming year, my business, Laurel Tree
Wellness, will have been open for eight years.
Oh my goodness, that's awesome. So how do people find you?
(10:20):
My website is a popular way Laurel wellnessllc.com.
I I've had people Google search and, and find me that way, you
know, local herbalist and I pop up in Maine, which is where I'm
from. And then of course referrals.
I'm also on Instagram so I can share with you the handle there
(10:41):
and and get that out to listeners also.
Oh yeah, So tell us how to find you on Instagram.
Well, the the handle is Laurel tree Wellness, so it's pretty
easy. Awesome.
All right, perfect. And where are you in Maine?
Like what area do you serve? And then do you also serve
clients virtually? Yes, I do both.
It's about half and half. So I see people, I've met with
(11:04):
people outside of our country. So the time zones can be a
little bit tricky, but we do ourbest to make it work.
I have quite a few clients spread across the across the
country, the United States, and then locally I I live in Oxford
County, but I serve people also in Androscoggin County and and
(11:25):
beyond. Basically whoever's willing to
travel out and see me. OK, cool.
That's awesome. That's good to know.
It's good for people to know that they can get you virtually
or in person. I think we're learning a lot
about virtual healthcare and, and how we can use that to, to
help each other. So I'm glad that you offered
(11:46):
that. So how often do you see clients?
Do you see clients? I mean, are you, are you 5 days
a week? You know, if people want to get
in touch with you or do they, ordo you schedule online?
How do they? How do they get you?
That's a great question. So I see people five days a
week. I do have set hours that I I
(12:07):
work during so that I also protect my family time 'cause
I'm still homeschooling 3 of my kids.
Wonderful. Isn't that fun?
Yes, it's a, it's a challenge, but I I love challenges, so it's
a good fit. So homeschooling has been such a
(12:27):
blessing. Well, it's funny, as a another
homeschooling mom, I'll have to just shortly tell you this story
because you'll get it. So we unschooled and one of my
children is he's a fire captain now.
He went through the fire Academy, went up, he's a
captain. So anyways, he calls me from the
fire Academy one day because he's really, really kicked off
(12:49):
at me because I didn't teach them the ratios of fire
suppression foam at home school.And I was like, wait, does
anyone else know this? And he's like, well, yeah.
And I was like, is this their first time through?
No. I was like, nobody knows this in
high school. So I didn't miss out on it.
(13:11):
And I think they were giving up.They were teasing them, maybe
saying that they learned in highschool or something.
I was like, no, nobody learns that in high school.
So as a homeschool mom, when they come back at you, it's
going to be something funny. Like you didn't tell me that you
could make the Eiffel Tower out of cookies or something and
you'll be like, wait, what? You know?
(13:31):
So anyway, so I just thought I think that was funny.
The way that the way that they look back on homeschooling is
really funny sometimes. So I think that's a real
balancing act. So you probably work great with
families that are trying to balance multiple.
I I mean, I'm saying roles, but it's probably, that's probably
just a simplification. Like, you know, parents who are,
(13:54):
you know, have, even have kids in school and then they're going
to activities and you know, thatkind of busyness.
So if someone comes to you and they're like, I'm so busy, I'm
so this, you're like, Oh, I knowwhat that feels like.
So hang on, let's hold my teeth.We're going to get this figured
out. So I think that's great.
I think that's really wonderful that you can offer that kind of
(14:14):
understanding to people. And Speaking of understanding
and multiple balancing multiple things, you're working with
people now with long COVID. And so do you have a protocol
that you're using with them or is it very individualized
approach? Because this is something I know
I don't see tons and tons of clients, but the ones that I see
(14:38):
are, are often in these categories.
And so I think it's really important work.
And I think we're not gonna evenknow the ramifications and the
importance of this work for another 20 years.
So I would love to hear like what you can offer individuals
who are dealing with this because I think this is
something that's really scary for people.
(14:59):
Sure is. It's, you know, it's a new
experience for all of us, even those who are simply witnesses
to those suffering from long haul COVID because we grew up
with the stomach flu and strep and things like that.
But those are familiar and we know what to expect.
Coronaviruses are not new necessarily, but the specific
(15:21):
type SARS COV 2 is unfamiliar. And so this is something that a
lot of herbalists have had to face and decide how are we going
to handle this? You know, and there's been a lot
of research going on and it's, I've been so blessed to be
witness to and learn from other herbalists who have also
experimented to try to find, OK,what's going to work for these
(15:45):
clients. I'm, I normally work with people
who have chronic illnesses. That's something that I do
specialize in people who have autoimmune conditions and
allergies and metabolic concernsand things.
And so it made sense that that same group of people would then,
(16:05):
you know, call on for support, support in dealing with long,
long COVID. And so usually by the time
people come to me, they've already tried other things and
they've been to their doctor andthey're not finding any relief
from the options that have been made available to them.
And so then we start looking at,well, what are some herbs that
can be useful? What are some nutritional
(16:28):
approaches that we can take? And so it's, it has been a
challenge to try to, to find answers for these folks.
I find that for the most part, it does need to be customized
because everybody's different. You know, a huge part of what I
do and what have a lot of other herbalists do is look at the
energetic state of a person. And often times we, we come to
(16:53):
the point of illness, we arrive at that that point prior to our
illness with completely different backgrounds and
energetics help us to figure outwhere they're coming from and
what their body actually needs. So then we can match those herbs
to the person. But I also think that
understanding the root cause forthem is also important.
(17:14):
You know, one of the, the root causes that a lot of people talk
about is, is that if there were pre-existing health issues for
someone that they're more likelyto have trouble recovering from
any kind of virus, but especially Kovid.
And, and so we will look at the timeline of events for this
(17:35):
person and, and we will ask, youknow, what else was going on
prior to getting sick with Kovid.
And so that we can not only helpto correct, you know, possible
damage that was caused by the virus, but also what was the,
the groundwork that, you know, laid the stage for that virus to
kind of get out of control and work on those underlying issues.
(17:59):
So that's a pretty common situation, a common approach,
but there's other possible root causes as well that I get a lot
of questions about. So I don't know if you want to
jump into those a little bit, but we could talk about some of
the root causes, I would. I would love to hear your
perspective on on any, anything to help other people.
(18:21):
And honestly, I love the fact that you're, you're saying, hey,
it's an individualized approach,not like take this, this and you
know, I, you know, it just because it's, it is, it is new
for everyone, but it's also new for their body, right?
Their bodies are not dealt with this.
So yeah, let it RIP. Let us let us hear all of your
(18:42):
wisdom. Well, part of it too is that
long haul COVID expresses itselfdifferent for, for people.
And so some people will experience, you know, those
dysautonomia type symptoms wherethey're they have dizzy spells
and they feel lightheaded and, or brain fog, memory issues.
And then you have others who endup with digestive issues.
(19:05):
Gastritis is, is a common one that ends up happening chronic
fatigue. And so it looks different for
everybody, which is why I feel so strongly that we can't just
give a blanket statement approach and tell everybody to
take the same herbs because it just doesn't, it doesn't
necessarily apply to them. But then looking at those root
(19:27):
causes, I think is also really important.
And I think it is, it is a, it'svery easy.
It's very tempting to assume that someone, if they're
struggling with long Covic, thatthey must have had a preexisting
condition, right? Like they must have had
diabetes, they must have had hypertension, they must have had
one of those things that we blame these chronic symptoms on.
(19:48):
But it's not always the case. I've had a number of long haul
COVID clients who were in wonderful health before getting
sick. They were active, they ate
wonderful, They, you know, ate organic foods and they had no
chronic illnesses at all. And yet they got sick.
So what exactly? Yeah.
(20:11):
Yeah, like it's surprising, you know, based on what they say,
you know, like surprising numberof athletes and a surprising
number of men who now are experiencing like fibromyalgia
symptoms where fibromyalgia was primarily a female, they at
least diagnosed for for females,right.
And so I think it's interesting that you pointed that out that
(20:31):
it that isn't, you know, we liketo say, oh, it's you.
You earned it, but you know, butit's not, it doesn't work that
way with this. So I think it's really good that
you pointed that out. Thank.
You. Yeah, absolutely.
I think that it's possible that COVID itself, the acute
infection could be worse among those who were sick prior to
(20:52):
getting infected. Their resilience is lower and
their immune strength is lower. But the long haul COVID symptoms
are a completely separate ball of wax.
This is this is a new game and it's not always related to the
severity of the acute infection.So it really has to be treated
(21:13):
as its own thing. And it does seem to target a
different group of people, including those athletes, those
really strong, healthy people you would not expect to be sick.
So there's a few other theories about why that happens.
One of them that I've seen quitea bit of research on is that
it's waking up dormant viruses that the.
(21:35):
Yeah, that the acute infection when somebody gets sick with
COVID, that whatever hidden or dormant virus was already
present that was not symptomaticnow becomes unleashed.
You know, So we have, you know, we have like strep or not strep
(21:58):
chicken pox, you know, chicken pox somebody had in the past and
then they they end up with shingles and, and why is that
happening? That happened to me post COVID,
you know, and, and it wasn't right in the wake of it, But did
that happen because I had COVID?Maybe, maybe not.
Maybe it increased my risk, But that is an example of something
that can be woken up. Epstein, Barr.
(22:20):
People What? About Mono.
Yeah. Yeah, like people who've had,
I'm wondering if it's more to, there's something to do with the
spleen. Like this mono can really affect
the spleen. Like that's just like some
things that have been going through my head when I'm you had
mono. Yeah, I had mono when I was 13.
I was like, ah, OK, so that's why I'm experiencing Monolith.
(22:41):
I, I don't know if it's all linked or whatever.
I didn't mean to interrupt you, but like you're saying that like
the amount of people with shingles is like just
astronomical in their 30s. You know, like you weren't
really, nobody got you shingles like the old man disease, right?
It's like, you know, you were old man, you got shingle.
You know, it was not like, but I'm seeing so many, even late
(23:03):
teens. Early. 20s people with shingles.
And so I love that you are making this connection and like
bringing this up and and encouraging people to think more
circularly about this kind of stuff.
So thank you. I didn't mean to.
No, that's that's great. Mono is a is a perfect example.
That's a very common one. Earlier on in the research that
(23:25):
was being done on COVID, they found that people who were
testing for all kinds of infections to find out like what
are my symptoms even coming from?
They didn't really know what long haul COVID was at the time
because it was so early in the in the game, but they were
discovering people had active Epstein Barr, which develops
from the same virus that causes mono.
(23:45):
It's just a, a later variation of and, and so then the question
became, well, is it COVID or is it Epstein Barr?
And, and I think for some people, it is possible it could
actually be Epstein Barr becausethe, the symptoms are very
similar, but I think it also cancoincide.
(24:06):
You can have both at the same time.
And so asking about a client's medical history, you know, did
have you had mono? Have you had chicken pox?
Do you remember having even evenstrep as a kid?
Because these types of infections often don't actually
go away. It's just that they be, they
move into a part of their life cycle that becomes dormant and
(24:29):
the immune system monitors the situation and keeps it under
wrap. But then you have something
brand new that your immune system has to fight.
And it kind of called, it kind of throws everything up in the
air. And now, you know, like we got
to see where does everything land?
It's it can be, it can be a bit of a challenge, Yeah.
(24:51):
So everyone wants to come to theparty.
Right. Exactly, exactly.
So another. Oh, go ahead.
You're going. To Oh, no, no, no, I was just
wowing you. OK, Another question that I
receive a lot from clients is what about the spike protein?
Like what does that have to do with COVID and and long COVID?
(25:15):
So the spike protein I think is really interesting because we
hear it a lot, but do we really know what it is?
And I and I think that's relevant for the conversation.
The spike protein is, is basically a like a, it's like a
Velcro type substance on the outside of the virus that allows
(25:35):
it to attach to other cells. So when a virus wants to
replicate in our bodies, whatever virus that is, it needs
a host in order to provide a safe place to replicate.
And it will do that by having either releasing A substance or
having some type of surface attractant that allows it to
(25:56):
attach to another cell. And so for COVID, that's the
spike protein. And, and unfortunately, the
studies that have been done shown that the spike protein can
linger even after the acute infection is gone.
And so a lot of people ask, well, and that caused long
COVID. And the unfortunate truth is
(26:17):
that it can, it is one of the root causes of long haul COVID,
specifically neurological symptoms, because for whatever
reason, the spike protein seems to remain in the brain tissue in
particular. And the, the longest studies
that have been done so far, because we're, you know, only a
few years out, have shown that it can last for up to four years
(26:40):
inside the body before it clearsout.
And so that's quite a long time.And certainly within that time
frame is when we're experiencingthese long haul symptoms.
So clearing spike proteins can be important because when it's
left behind, it can trigger inflammation, and that whole
inflammatory cascade can be responsible for a lot of the
(27:02):
symptoms that we see there. Thank you so much for taking the
time to explain that to everyone.
So I guess do you have any basicguidelines are assistance for
people on steps they should taketo either get the diagnosis of
long COVID or how to find an herbalist who can actually help
(27:26):
them, Not you know, you know, sell them a prepackaged
whatever, like someone who can actually give them the time.
What would be your suggestions for someone looking for
assistance? Reaching out to herbalist to try
to find someone who can help andasking them, you know, upfront,
(27:47):
do you have experience with helping someone who has long
haul COVID would be appropriate because you know, any kind of
questions you can ask my interview process ahead of time
will help you to get to know theperson and what their style is
and what their experience is andtraining and all of that.
And so I think that probably a lot of clinical herbalists are
(28:08):
going to have experience with, with long haul by now.
But there, there are a lot of options that that can help.
And, and so part of what I do isnot just recommend herbs, but
also look at a person's overall well-being, because everything
that we do influences our health.
(28:29):
And if somebody is, for example,not sleeping well at night,
that's going to prevent them from detoxing, that's going to
impede their their lymphatic function, their immune function.
And so that's just one example of a lifestyle factor that can
be addressed. And so looking at all the things
(28:50):
that make up our daily life, ournutrition, our movement, our
stress level, our community, our, you know, spiritual
well-being, all of those pieces influence our immune system.
And so I like to start by looking at someone's overall
well-being and see, OK, are there areas that we can work on
improving the quality of, whether that's through lifestyle
(29:13):
choices or through nutrition or through herbs?
I do there are tests that you can do.
Most practitioners are are able to test for things like Epstein
Barr, like antigens to different, you know, viruses and
things like that. So you can certainly ask, not
all practitioners will be open to testing.
(29:34):
So you might have to ask around a little bit to, you know, get
the resources that you need. But I have also discovered, at
least from a holistic perspective, that there are a
couple of signs that are very common among people who have
long haul COVID. And to do that, to see those
(29:55):
signs, you have to look in your mouth.
So anybody listening can do thisfor themselves.
But, and I'm sure that a lot of herbalists would also be aware
of this, but one of the signs that I observed is that the
tongue, which is a great pictureof, of what's going on inside of
the body normally is positioned straight, right?
(30:16):
It's it's facing. When you stick your tongue out,
it sticks out straight. When someone has had
neurological damage, often timesthe tongue will appear crooked.
It will actually stick out to one side or the other.
That's most commonly associated with something like a stroke or
Parkinson's. But I've actually been seeing it
(30:37):
in young people after they've experienced COVID.
And so if their tongue has like a crooked tip, you know, it's
like tilted to one side, that's not diagnostic for sure, but it
can indicate that there is some imbalance in the nervous system,
which is one of the most common indicators that you see or areas
(30:58):
of symptoms that you see with somebody who has long haul
Kovid. The other sign that I look for
is a crooked uvula. So when you look in your mouth
and you might have to use a little flashlight to see in the
back of your mouth and you look at the uvula hanging down in
your throat. And usually the arches on either
side are nice and Even so that the uvula hangs down straight.
(31:20):
But with long haul COVID, you sometimes see one side of the
the arch being higher or lower than the other, which makes the
uvula crooked. And again, that's an indicator
for neurological imbalance because the nerves that are
connected to the back of your throat, which control your
tongue position and control the uvula position are also
(31:42):
connected to, you know, all the centers of your brain, Yes, and
other areas of your body via thevagal nerves to that impact a
lot of these symptoms that we'reseeing.
So those are a couple little tricks that somebody can check
for which can kind of help pointyou at least in the right
direction. Oh, I love that.
(32:02):
Thank you for sharing that tip with everyone.
I think that they'll find that really useful.
So we've, we've kept you for over half an hour now and, and,
but I wanted for you to also have the opportunity to share
what you're, you're offering on your website because I looked
(32:23):
real quick and you've got some classes, you have some other
things. So please share that with
everyone so they can find you and really continue to get
inspired by the work that you do.
You, Dimitri. I appreciate that.
So my primary work is in clinical practice one-on-one
with clients, and that's how I spend most of my days when I'm
(32:43):
not homeschooling my kids. And anyone who is interested in
working with me can visit my website.
And there is all the informationthere that you need to get set
up. And you can also contact me
through the website to ask any questions that you like to get
to know me a little bit more before deciding whether or not
I'm the right fit for what you need.
(33:06):
And then I also have right now, I have my podcast, the Family
Herbalism podcast, which I've been running for a few years and
I have about 200 episodes. There's a lot of information in
there. Each one is basically a little
master class on a different subject around health.
And those can be found on any platforms.
(33:26):
The Family Herbalism podcast, now that's actually on its way
out. I'm phasing it out at the end of
the year and transitioning all of that education to my new
platform, The Herbal Collective.So all of the podcasts will be
actually organized by topic or currently organized that way
inside of the Herbal Collective.And I've also over the years
(33:49):
created a number of downloads that I've given away different
PDFs and things. And, you know, they come and go
on the website, but I've, I've had this little stash that I,
that I've been collecting of different handouts.
I bet you have. And so I put those all together
into the Herbal Collective Light, which is the free version
(34:11):
of my new platform. And so anybody can sign up for
that on my website. The classes tab has all of my
educational offerings and that'sright at the top.
And so that's free for anybody, but those who would like more
education can sign up for one ofthe membership options for the
(34:31):
Herbal Collective, which also has a weekly gathering.
So I get together on Wednesday afternoons with anybody who
signs up and wants to join me, and we just talk about things
herbal, and it's based on who's there and what they're
interested in. And so it's a very dynamic
conversation. It's a lot of fun and I I love
that because with the podcast I don't get to enjoy that face to
(34:53):
face connection with people and I really, I really appreciate
that aspect. So the weekly gatherings are
just a fun way to get together and share our love for herbs and
natural health. And I also will be releasing
monthly classes inside the Herbal Collective for they'll be
completely free to members starting in 2026.
(35:14):
And this year I also released a virtual herb walk series that's
in the collective as well. So there's a ton of resources
available for for those who are interested in joining.
Oh, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing
that with everyone. I think it's important for and
everyone's always like you can'tsay that you run an herbal
school, but I think it's important for people to get all
(35:36):
kinds of information from all kinds of teachers from all over
the place, not just, you know, people that pare it back to us,
what we want to hear. Because I think it's we need to
be challenged more in our field and we need to, I have more,
more voices. And I love that you've been
(35:56):
doing this forever. So thank you so much for all of
that work. And I love it sounds like this
is like the coolest space in theworld.
So thank you so much for sharingit with us.
Is there anything else you'd like to share with us before we
let you get back to your busy life?
Well, I just want to say thank you, Demetria for hosting me
(36:18):
today. I've really enjoyed this
conversation, the opportunity tochat with your listeners, and I
look forward to connecting with you and your listeners in the
future. Thank you so much.
You have a wonderful day. Thank you so much for having us.
Where can we find you again? You can find me on on Instagram
at Laurel Tree Wellness and you can find all of my resources and
(36:41):
all the clinical information at Laurel Tree wellnessllc.com.
All right, and we'll have the the links in the bio thingy, the
description so people can find you and we'll also be posting
something on our our Facebook page.
So I'm really excited to have been here today with you.
Thank you so much and have a wonderful, have a wonderful
(37:05):
weekend because the weekend's coming up.
So thank you so much. I really appreciate all your
time. Thank you, Demetria.
Bye bye.
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