March 20, 2025 • 47 mins
This episode explores the intersection of herbalism and mental health recovery with Kelli Hughart, a lifetime herbalist. She shares her journey, the importance of connecting with nature through herbal practices, and how integrative therapies can help those facing complex PTSD.
• Kelly discusses her early influences and family’s herbal traditions
• The importance of local herbalism and ethical sourcing
• Integrative hypnosis as a therapeutic tool
• Complex PTSD and the shortcomings of conventional treatments
• How plant-based therapies can aid mental health recovery
• Encouragement to find expert guidance in health journeys
• Kelly’s upcoming book on herbal therapies and complex PTSD
• Reflection on the significance of sustainable health practices
You can schedule a complimentary call with Kelli to discuss potential healing resources on her website: https://www.mawmawkelli.com/
From Kelli
My website: https://www.mawmawkelli.com/
My group program (which includes the first edition of the book) and the tools of herbs, mind-body medicine etc
https://www.mawmawkelli.com/index.php/ecourse/
Some free and low-cost resources:
https://www.mawmawkelli.com/index.php/products/
and
https://go.mawmawkelli.com/free-download-KRH
Heart of Herbs Herbal School
The Heart of Herbs Podcast with Demetria Clark! 🌿 Tune in for herbal wisdom & wellness tips!
Welcome to the Heart of Herbs Herbal School Podcast, www.heartofherbs.com where we explore the world of herbal remedies and natural health solutions. Before we dive into today's episode, If you want to enroll, use code PODCAST to save 20%.
The content provided in this podcast is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or medical condition. It is always recommended to consult with a qualified healthcare professional
Learn more at www.heartofherbs.com
Let us help you find your herbal direction!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Hi, this is Demetria Clark, the director of Heart of
Herbs Herbal School, and todaywe're talking to Kelly Hugert.
Did I say that right?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
That's right.
Kind of sounds like yogurt, yep.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Wonderful and Kelly is really one of these people
that's a lifetime herbalist.
Of these people that's alifetime herbalist and I say
that because her herbal originstory is just part of her life
and her upbringing and where shelives, and it's connected.
(00:56):
And I don't know how long we'veknown each other, gosh, it's
been a lot of years.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I know it's different to say it's been a lot of years
.
I don't know how many, but it'sbeen a lot yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
And when I met you, you were an accomplished
herbalist and healthpractitioner back then.
So I just I'm so excited tohave you on and to talk to you
in this way, and so tell us, howdid you get started in all of
this?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, well, first of all I want to thank you for your
work Because you're educatingherbalists out there and
aromatherapists and the birtharts and all that thing.
So I want to give honor andcredit to you Because,
especially the green spiritprogram, if I can put a plug in
for you, green Spirit Program,if I can put a plug in for you.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
You know, because I had already been making herbal
medicine.
You know, it's a journey forall of us, you know.
But we start out somewhere.
But I'd already been doingherbalism and stuff like that.
But the Green Spirit Programcompletely changed my life.
I'm actually talking about itin my dissertation, but anyway.
So, yes, I want to say first ofall to you thank you so much
for the work that you're doingand I'm just so grateful for you
.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Well, thank you, that's really cool.
You are probably one of themost educated students we've
ever worked with, because whensomeone doesn't stop, that's how
we have to describe youreducational journey.
So how did this connection withherbalism start for you?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, my great grandmother was actually an
herbalist, so back then theycalled them granny witches,
granny herbalists.
You know Appalachian, you knowAppalachian born, bred and
raised, and so she was actuallyan herbalist and so I can't tell
the whole story here becausethat was probably about 40 years
ago.
But about 40 years ago I mademy first herbal medicine in the
(02:53):
house that I now live in.
My grandfather came home fromthe war and he built his house
with his bare hands and I wasabout 14, you know, teenager.
And I was about 14, you know,teenager, and my grandma you're
going to laugh at this mygrandmother would make us drink
yellow root tea.
That's what we called it then.
Of course we know that'sHydrastis canadensis and that's
(03:16):
an at-risk plant, that we know.
We only use it now when eitherwe grow it or from ethical you
know places.
But that's how I got started.
She made all of usgrandchildren drink it.
My grandfather had ulcers so badand he actually had to crawl to
his company truck.
He could not even walk and Iremember the story really well.
(03:40):
It was actually in his chairright here in the living room
and he just said I doctored anddoctored and doctored for years.
That's what he called it.
And he said and, and they neverhelped me.
And so he went to catfish manof the woods I don't know if
you've ever heard catfish.
Anyway, so long story short,that's when I started making my
own first herbal medicine waswith was yellow root tea, and we
(04:02):
drank it.
Every time we come into thehouse you make a drink at that
casserole is that funny, what agrandma can make you do I know
I'm like, I'm thinking about itnow with my grandkids, I'm like
on, you know, but you know,that's just the way it was.
You know, and my grandfatheractually was on the front page
of the newspaper one time forgrowing his gorge.
(04:22):
You know they were gardenersand you know they lived through
the depression, so they did allthe things.
Um, now, really, that wasprobably the only plant that my
grandmother worked with.
It was her mother.
That was the herbalist.
But you know, just over time Ilatched on to it and I don't I
think a lot of it was because,um, I I'm a highly sensitive
person, um, and that's what mydissertation is on.
(04:45):
And so, going through my lifecrash.
Conventional medicine hasfailed me so many times, but
herbalism has always been there.
Flower essences has always beenthere, not only for me but for
my child, for my dogs.
Those have passed on.
My Weimaraner actually lived anextra.
She was given six months tolive and she lived another two
(05:07):
years with quality life becauseof herbalism.
So yeah, it's been a passion ofmine, since, and my daughter
already.
You know my daughter is anatural birther.
She's birthed all her kidsnaturally and she's already made
her first medicine.
My grandkids already know, Ithink, my youngest, I think he
(05:28):
was two when he made his firstherbal medicine of dandelion
tincture.
So yeah, so it's in our family,it's in our blood and it always
has been.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I love that.
So you and I share an affinityto.
I'm going to put on myheadphones real quick.
For some reason it's giving mean error, so I want to make sure
that I don't mean to interruptyou, so let me just it'll help.
All right, Can you hear me?
(05:58):
Absolutely Okay, cool.
So it's telling me that yourdefault microphone has changed.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Oh, I know.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
It's like, oh, like, come on man.
So my grandmother is fromBuncombe County, virginia oh,
okay and you're from WestVirginia and I mean, but um
there's something special aboutthe women from that area.
Like my grandmother was acomplete hell on wheels, like
(06:30):
total terror.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I tell this joke but it's serious.
My grandmother, if mygrandmother told my papa to get
his hind parts home, that's justsort of lingo at the time.
To get his hind parts home, youknow that's, that's just sort
of lingo at the time.
He got his hind parts home thegetting got done.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I just love that.
I love that, um, you're fromone of my favorite states, like
I love West Virginia.
If it wasn't so far from mychildren, that's's probably
where I would be.
It just reminds me of where Idon't know.
I just have an affinity and aconnection.
It's so freaking beautiful.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
It's beautiful and we can grow so many things and of
course, I have acreage inVirginia as well where I grow
at-risk plants as well.
I got about 61 acres there andbut you know we can grow so many
things here that you know thatare that would grow like in
(07:33):
China and like their herbalism.
I'm like, well, I can do thesame thing here and I've got the
plants here and I can walk outmy door, literally.
I have an herb garden here.
I also do aquaponics.
I have an herb garden here.
I also do aquaponics.
I have an aquaponics system inmy basement as well, yeah like
I'm all in.
I had to downsize some of myplants to the point I'm like,
all right, we might have to putsome of these outside.
(07:53):
We've got some of them out onthe.
But yeah, I, you know, I've hadpeople come in and go where's
the furniture?
I'm like, look, if I could getrid of all the furniture and
have plants, trust me, Iwouldn't.
Yeah.
But you know, my grandmotherwas the same way.
I live in her house now and thewhole back porch which is like
a sunroom, but we always calledit the back porch.
She had all her plants outthere.
(08:14):
So she was.
She was a plant person as well.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, oh, I love that .
I love that the affinity andthat connection, and I love that
you're growing at risk Thingsthat people may think oh, you
know, I'll just get it fromChina.
No, let's not get our herbalmedicine from overseas.
We've had so many issues withadulteration and all kinds of
(08:39):
other things.
Find a local producer, grow ityourself.
I mean, there's huge programsjust set up to help people learn
how to do that and to keep youknow, like I'm always about
supporting local economies any,any way that I can, and yeah,
and I teach my apprentices, yeah, and I taught my.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I used to have nine month apprentices as well and
you know, I taught the samething.
I said we don't know when themail, you know, god forbid can
stop or things can happen.
And and I taught aboutadulteration, because I think
it's really important that weteach about that and I don't
think that everybody knows aboutthat.
So that's a passion of mine aswell and I and I always started
my apprentices out and even mydaughter anybody really that I
(09:23):
taught with easy things to growfirst.
You know, start with your mints.
They like to take over, butthey're so beneficial and
depends on how you make them.
You can get different benefitsfrom the same plant based on
what time it grew, when it grew,when you harvested, would you
did a prep, which you know,whether you did a fresh plant
tincture, whether you a you're,you know so many different ways.
(09:45):
So, yeah, I'm all about grow asmuch as you can and let your
weeds grow.
Actually, you're, you'llappreciate this.
All you herbal people are goingto appreciate this.
I actually bought cleats and Isow chickweed and white clover
through my entire yard to try toget rid of the grass.
With wait, with cleats, yes,cleats yes, oh my gosh, you know
(10:05):
they go smart.
Yeah, I got them on the bottomof my shoes and my neighbor was
like, what are you doing?
And I have a grass guy.
I'm like well, I'm trying to putyou out of business is what I
told him, so that I can have myentire yard weeds, weedy plants,
things we can, and that's mygoal is to completely eradicate.
Eradicate grass.
(10:26):
It's my mission in life.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
I want to do some traditional like hedgerows.
I'm like really like, yes, ofcourse that's on the list of a
million things that we have todo.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
My list is a million.
I need a, I need a crew.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I know right, wouldn't that be great Like you
know just hey, 15 people drop byand they they somehow get paid
an equitable wage.
But I love that, so you also.
So you have explored so manydifferent modalities and
(11:05):
combined them into differentsystems, and I would love to
hear about your wellnesspractice and what you offer
individuals in that, and I'dlove to hear more about your
dissertation too.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So I'm really excited about the dissertation because
in the dissertation I'll startthere and I'll circle back.
But in the dissertation I'mtalking about my recovery of
complex post-traumatic stressdisorder as a highly sensitive
person due to intimate partnerviolence.
Conventional medicinecompletely failed me.
(11:41):
I did the quote, unquote, rightthings.
I was a therapy dropout and Isaid you know what?
There's got to be a better way.
I had a really, really lifealtering, life crash moment when
I didn't think I was going tomake it through this world at
all and I said there's got to bea better way.
I remember I looked up, I heardthe whisper and the whisper
(12:02):
said look up.
And when I looked up I saw mygrandbaby's face in the clouds
and I was like, okay, there'sgot to be a better way and you
have the skills and you're goingto find it.
And so my dissertation is aboutplant-based therapy, flower
essences, adaptogens, herbalnerve vibes, and then also I'm
layering in mind body medicine,hypnosis, guided imagery and
these types of things, energeticmedicine, and I have used that
(12:25):
to create my own integrativehypnosis practice.
I see clients typically.
I do have a group program aswell, so I have a group program.
That's a low cost.
You know, low cost programBecause I want to make it
affordable for everybody.
And then I have free stuff,obviously on my website, on
YouTube.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
So oh you have great content you share lots of really
good information with people,yeah, so that's my goal.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah, my goal is to share as much free stuff as I
can and then do a low cost forthose people.
And then, of course, workingwith me privately is obviously,
you know, a little bit more ofan investment.
But in that, in my privatepractice, you know, I'm going to
teach them every tool I can,and if they're interested in
herbalism and flower essences,aromatherapy, I'm obviously
going to share that.
(13:11):
And then I do an intake withthem to make sure I'm, you know,
giving them the rightsuggestions based on their
constitution and these typethings.
But I have integrated thatbased on, you know, just based
on collecting all theinformation for years, and I've
found that there are people thatcome to me for hypnosis who are
not interested in, like, plantmedicine and that's there's.
(13:32):
You know I can teach thembreath work and you know I can
teach them other tools for, like, anxiety and whatnot.
But my people, a lot of them,are drawn to me because I, you
know, have worked with herbalismand aromatherapy for like what?
40 years now.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Basically yeah, yeah, wow.
I can just.
I can just imagine theapplications for something like
this.
I mean veterans groups, youknow, children who've
experienced different kinds oftrauma.
I mean, like just thisintegrative approach to trauma
(14:08):
is it's funny because, like itmakes so much sense.
It's just sad that we're so farbehind on it.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Like yes, we are probably, I mean you know I was
going to say 50 years at least,but, yeah, I think you're about
right, I'd say between 30 and 50years behind.
And and the research there are.
There is some new peeredresearch coming out on
aromatherapy and PTSD, or whatwe now know for some people to
(14:40):
be complex PTSD, because it'snot one individual event right,
it's a series.
So those children who have highACE scores, like me, or then
have chosen, unfortunately,dysfunctional relationships
based on their high scores or,you know, other types of trauma,
we are finally coming out withpeer review research that says
(15:02):
it's not just PTSD.
Right, this is complex PTSD.
This is an ongoing thing andwhen you have something that's
been ongoing for a long time,you can't talk it out.
With all due respect, talktherapy, while very valuable and
I'm not against therapists andI tell my clients keep your
therapist and I have a lovelyone and I'm not trying to diss
(15:22):
them but it's not a panacea andthe body is a whole.
We are a whole person, whichyou know.
We learned this in our classes.
A heart does not walk into acardiologist office, right.
A lung you know a set of lungsdoesn't walk into a phone, right
?
We need a whole system approach.
We need a whole body approach,a holistic approach.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
So yeah, yeah, wow, no, that's so awesome.
I know that, um, I know that weforget.
It's so easy in this culture tosee an ad oh, this will take
away your depression, orwhatever, and we're like, okay,
that's, and that's a tool.
And every therapy is therapy isa tool.
(16:08):
What you're doing is tools, anddrugs are tools and herbs are
tools, and getting someone whoknows how to use the tools in
the toolbox effectively feelslike I don't know very hard.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
It's very, very very difficult.
You might find somebody whoknows this one particular area
and they may suggest an herb,but they don't have the
extensive knowledge to know.
Like.
Somebody came to me many yearsago and they said my therapist
suggested kava and I said, well,tell me a little bit more about
(16:43):
your situation.
I was a martial arts teacher atthe time and she told me a
little bit about it and I waslike, well, well, well, that's
contraindicated for you.
And she said, oh, it is.
Well, that's contraindicatedfor you.
And she said, oh, it is.
And I explained to her why andall the things.
And she goes, oh, and so we?
And again, this is nothingagainst anybody.
I see this with medical doctors.
I see medical doctors,therapists, psychotherapists,
(17:04):
that are really acting out oftheir zone of genius on things
and recommending things thatmaybe they read an article on
and maybe it is peer reviewed,and that's great.
We need peer reviewed evidence,even in herbalism.
We love that, yeah, yeah.
So I'm not against that.
But what they didn't get is theconstitution right, the
energetics, like the actual, ofknowing what's going on, and
(17:32):
without that piece of the puzzle, which you and I know, we could
be giving them an herb that isgoing to actually do worse or
more harm, and so now then theygo away thinking that herbalism
doesn't work, or you knowHerbalist or a bunch of cuckoo
brains.
Whatever, they didn't care aboutwhat was safe for me.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, yeah, no, it was funny.
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, no,it was funny.
Recently, someone that I lovedidn't ask me for advice.
They trusted some person DrGoogle probably and they're like
they were taking so muchturmeric that their skin was oh
my gosh gosh and their eyes were.
(18:10):
I was like dude, stop.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Well, I probably should have asked you yeah, you
probably should have, but maybethere's a little tip there if
you do ask, it will not be free.
At this point, you, freaking,blew the free advice.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
you know people, they just sometimes they'll read
something and be like yeah, thisis it, and sometimes it isn't
sometimes it's not, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
That's the thing that is frustrating.
That has been the thing that isfrustrating for me.
I've had clients that have cometo me five, ten years ago and
you know, and I said you knowthis is we can work together.
Of course, my prices back thenwere way cheaper.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
They, and this is we can work together.
Of course my prices back thenwere way cheaper.
Oh, I'm sure they were probablytoo cheap back then.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
They were actually too cheap back then anyway, but
that's okay.
But you know, they would say,well, you know what?
And I'd say you know, well,it's going to save you more
money to work with someone who'sexperienced and skilled.
And these people will come backto me and this is the part
(19:17):
that's so hard for me as apractitioner they will come back
to me five years, three years,five years, ten years later and
they just spin their wheels,spin their wheels and then they
are worse.
Especially, I see this withchronic illness people, which I
know we all need to have ourjourneys.
I don't want to take awayanyone's journey oh yeah, no, no
, no, no, I'm getting so I'm nottrying to take away anyone's
journey, but chronic illness.
you know like I specialize inpeople who have dysautonomia,
pots or chronic conditions thatare really not getting help with
(19:38):
conventional medicine, andthey'll spend their wills and
they'll spend their money onherbs and they might have a
whole cabinet of stuff that'snot working.
Spend their wills and theirspend their money and all that
that adds up to working withsomeone who can help you and you
can then move forward and domore of what you love in your
life oh yeah, I always look.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
This is something that I tell people all the time
is you know, uh, pay the expert,exactly I do, I'm not trying to
install a toilet.
I don't know how to do that.
I'm going to pay someone to dothat.
Well, I've actually done that.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Well, I've helped, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
But I mean the reality is, is that we have such
this thing that there's so muchmore value in trying to do it
ourself.
Much more value and trying todo it ourself.
And yeah, there isn't somethings, especially if it's stuff
that you enjoy and you like,but sometimes I'm like, and if
it's your zone of genius,obviously.
I'm gonna blend.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
My own herbal remedies like yeah, yeah, you
know, I have a pop the carry inmy basement that at last count,
was over a thousand jars andthere's stuff sitting on the
floor at this point.
But you know, and I've got awhole library and I have a
lending library, you have tocome and sit in the library.
You're not allowed to.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
You don't leave my house with that book.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Well, because I lost a book.
You know, I have books that arefrom the 1800s that you can't
get anymore.
They're very expensive.
So I'm like you can come, butyou know, if that's your zone of
genius, that's great.
But even I hire out, like youknow, and there's nothing.
We I think it's this idea thatwe're admitting defeat, or
whether or not we're not smartenough, and I think the value
(21:22):
here is to recognize thatsomeone else may have a zone of
genius that you don't have andthat you can learn from.
And then you know, later on, ifyou want to make that your own
genius, we'll probably need more, whatever that person is doing
anyway, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I think it's about also claiming our power.
So paying someone to do the job, that to help us with something
, isn't defeatist.
It's saying I'm, I'm owningthis situation and I believe I'm
worth the expert help or theexpert guidance.
And then doing it becausepeople have endless amounts of
(22:00):
money for the shake formulas orwhatever scheme comes their way
and I'm like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
I have literally seen women pay and this is seems to
be more.
I work mostly with women.
I do work with men as well, butI do work more with women and
it seems like number one.
We have this and this is asocietal cancer.
Quote unquote, if you will.
I'm not taking away from thediagnosis, but this is a
societal problem that we have.
(22:29):
That maybe is a better termthat women.
We do not, we can't invest inourselves, we can't invest in
our health and I'm like okay,but you're paying 500 for
something that somebody signed,a piece of paper and they're not
even educated on what you'retaking.
It may be doing more harm thangood.
Or then you get that okay, nowherbalism doesn't work, whereas
if you, if you took the threemonths and ditching that stuff
(22:51):
and you actually worked withsomeone, you're going to cause,
they're going to tailor it toyou, they're going to and
they're going to say okay,what's working, what's not
working, what do we need to do,what do we need to tweak, what
else can we do in this?
And they're also going to giveyou a lifetime benefit yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And then it can last a lifetime instead of you know
whatever $500 a month forsomething that you can't.
Or whatever.
That's exactly right and I'mnot saying that those things
don't necessarily have theirplace.
As anyone who knows anythingabout me knows, I am not a fan
of MLM kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
No me neither.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
We find a way to afford the things we want, and
it is okay for us to affordsomeone to help us when we need
it.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yes, absolutely, I know for me.
I think, for me personally, oneof the things that was an eye
opener for me was my grandbabyat the time, grand number one,
who's eight now.
He said, mama, why you cry allthe time?
You need hugs, time you needhugs.
(23:55):
And what I realized was me notgetting the help and the support
that I needed and, moreimportantly, deserved was
affecting him, and we don'talways think about it like that
is whatever it is.
And so now, of course, I needto do it for me and I think you
know I like I work with peoplewith like smoking cessation and
I work with like anxiety, peoplein chronic illness.
I do a lot of different work butultimately it needs to be for
(24:17):
you.
But sometimes you don't havethat, that in you in the moment,
the inspiration to do it.
Yeah, that's how people, if youcan't do it for you, do it for
your dog, do it for yourgrandbabies, do it for your
children, whatever that quoteunquote is, whatever that quote
unquote is and then, after youget you start healing.
Then you're going to see I'mworth it, yeah, I'm worth it to
(24:37):
do it for me.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I do love that I do love that.
I feel like um.
I heard someone interesting saysomething about um.
The loss of ancestral knowledgeand care over the last few
generations has really distancedand separated humans from being
able to say I'm worth this forwhatever is going on inside.
(25:02):
Not, I make a lot of money, soI deserve a car.
You know like that, thatdifference between taking care
of ourselves and between takingcare of ourselves and whatever
money can buy us because we knowmoney can buy a lot, you know.
I think it's really cool thatyou work with people in a way
that helps them have some longterm effects and sustainability
(25:26):
in their treatment.
I think that's awesome.
So where can people find?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
you.
Yeah, so I'm kellyhugertcom.
Kelly with an I hugertcom orMama Kelly, we'll all should get
there as well M-A-W-M-A-W.
Kellywithanicom, becauseeverybody calls me Mama Kelly.
Either one of those will getyou to my website and you know I
always do like pro bonoconsultation.
It's no cost to see if we arematched to work together.
(25:52):
More importantly, if I havetools to support someone because
I want to be ethical in mypractice as well and if I get to
talk with someone and I don'tfeel like I'm the best
practitioner for them, I'm goingto do the right thing Refer
them to someone else.
So the call is free and theycan jump on my website and
schedule a call.
I only work two days a weekright now because I'm in
(26:13):
dissertation.
I'm almost finished, actually,with my research, but because of
what we talked about is we haveto take care of ourselves first
, right?
If you can't put your own maskon, you can't help anybody else.
So I do work two days a weekright now until at least until I
finish up my dissertation.
But, yeah, a phone call with meis totally free and then we
discuss whether or not there'sresources there.
(26:33):
If not, I refer them tosomebody else and then, of
course, if I have the resourcesfor them sometimes I do, unless
it's something extremelycomplicated Then we talk about
what does that look like for usto work together?
Speaker 1 (26:44):
That's awesome.
I love the.
That's always been a big thingfor me the referring someone on
and I don't feel like is goingto be a good match or get
benefit from from working withme.
And sometimes they come backand say you told me to try this
out.
I didn't like them.
I do want to work with you andmaybe the vibe is different at
that point, Right, yeah.
But I think that's so importantto remember that you don't have
(27:08):
to be the perfect fit foreveryone, right, and not
everyone needs to get everythingthey need from one person.
You know, as you were sayingearlier, staying in your zone of
genius and stuff like that.
You know, I think it's likeit's so important because not
everybody, not every healthprovider, can give every client
(27:30):
everything they need, and theyshouldn't.
That's scary.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Right, exactly, I mean, I like they can?
Speaker 1 (27:36):
that's a little like oh okay, how big's the ego man.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, and I, you know I'll refer different tools, you
know.
I mean, you know I'll say thisis what we're going to do, but
here's a tool from this person,I learned from this person,
here's a resource from thisperson, or whatnot.
But you absolutely have to bein your zone of genius.
You know, I love babyherbalists.
They're so beautiful, they'reso wonderful, they're so excited
(28:01):
, and I love their excitement.
And also, at the same time, wealso have to understand that and
they need to learn too.
We all need to learn and we'veall been white belts, so to
speak, at some point, but that'sfine.
But we also still have toremember to act in our zone of
genius and make sure that weresonate with somebody, because
if it feels like there's aconflict, it may not be the best
fit, and it may.
They may be anotherpractitioner that's a better fit
.
I had one client come to me.
(28:22):
This was many years ago.
She had spent over $15,000 onpractitioners, tests, all these
things, and when she came, cameto me I'm typically people's
last stop shop, so to speak,like I'm like we've tried
everything, we're not sure whoto reach out to, but somebody
gave you, you know, somebodygave me your number, that kind
(28:43):
of thing.
So usually that tends to be theclients that I get.
But she had spent over fifteenthousand dollars on supplements,
practitioners, practitioners,whatever and when she came in to
work with me she was realhesitant, which I don't blame
her.
That's more money going out.
And after we worked togetheryou know it was like maybe six
weeks or something, I can'tremember now that was a long
time ago she was like, oh mygosh, I wish I'd found you
(29:04):
before.
I spent $15,000 in all thismess, yeah and I say that to say
.
I mean, we used to be at least anice used car.
Probably not now, but but but.
But that's sort of my point toall that you know.
Find somebody, have a chat withthem, but wasting your time and
(29:25):
spinning your wheels for yearsand years and years or worse,
asking social media, wherepeople have very little
education on unless it really istheir zone of genius, and
usually they're not spendingtime answering the questions
anyway, they're usually seeingclients.
It's just really reallyimportant to make sure that you
find somebody that resonateswith you, and whoever that is,
(29:46):
that's perfect, as long asthey're skilled.
Check like on my website, whichI'm sure you do this as well.
On my website I have a little.
Do this as well.
On my website I have a littlething they can click on.
It says my education.
Now I don't list everythingbecause I'd be here, you know
you would literally have 50pages, literally.
I know, but what I do is I listthe highlights and you know, and
(30:09):
all those things.
So they.
I don't want them to take myword for it.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
I want them to say, okay, okay, okay, okay we have
people call us to verify thatstudents actually went through
the program.
Consumers are getting a lotmore educated.
Clients are starting to say,hey, we can verify this stuff.
There's places we can call.
So I'm always telling studentslook, you put your education on
there and you invite them, yes,to check on you.
(30:34):
I do Give them that whole coneof safety.
Yeah, so people feel so muchmore confident in the industry
and in their practitioner.
I just love that you put thatinformation out there and you've
always been an advocate of youknow, being clear, and you know,
and I've always really likedthat about all the work that
(30:56):
I've seen of yours.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, I've always been known as the no fads zone.
I don't do fads.
I never have done fads.
I always look at the research,peer-reviewed research and I
want to make sure that, at theend of the day, when I lay my
head down on the pillow, thatnot only the content I put out
(31:18):
on social media, but my practiceyou know my private practice,
my clients, whatever I want toknow that I've done the best
that I can and I've given them1000%.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
I love that.
I love that.
I agree.
I think that, look, we don'thave to be perfect, we don't
have to get everything right allthe time Nobody does but I
think we all got to work hard tobe as transparent and as clear
as possible with clients, and Ithink that one of the great
things is being able to say noto a client or being able to say
(31:45):
yeah, no, this is and I havedone that.
I know you have.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
I've said to people.
You know, with all due respect,I don't think here's a resource
.
Let me see if I can.
I have referred people out,like I mean, I'm just like I
don't specialize in that and butI know somebody who does and
I'm more than happy to do that,and it's not it.
It's, I think, to me if apractitioner can't do that,
(32:12):
that's more of a red flag.
Exactly, I agree with you 100%To me then you know to say oh no
, I know it all and I can do itall.
Eh what can you?
So?
Yeah, no, I think it's realimportant to be ethical in your
practice.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Oh, I love that.
I love that so much.
So what else are you up tolately?
Because you are always doingsomething.
So what other things can peopleexpect from you soon?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Well, I'm working on the dissertation, so that's you
know.
Once it's done, then you got togo through and edit.
So even though it's, you know,pretty much done, there's edits
and there's all the kinds ofthings.
You know it's close but anyway.
And then I did publish one bookthat is going to, that's being
republished now, but it's kindof on the back burner and it is
(32:59):
actually about what mydissertation is on.
You know, therapeutics forcomplex PTSD.
The name of it, the name of itescapes me.
I think I call it.
We may come up with a new title, but it's the first time I just
self-published.
It was from lost to living mindbody medicine, approach to
recovery from abuse.
But within that mind bodymedicine model is herbs, you
(33:23):
know, aromatherapy, floweressences, and I pack that in.
Now, I don't overwhelm people,so I only share, like my top
three essential oils.
Overwhelm people, so I onlyshare, like my top three
essential oils.
Right, my top three.
Whatever, I'd like to do thetop three, because you know I
could write probably a series ofbooks at this point if you can
nail me down, make me sit downlong enough, but so you can.
(33:44):
you can look for that.
You can go to the website.
I'm always have like a new blogcoming out.
I have the group program, so soyou know if anybody is
struggling with complex PTSD,especially as a highly sensitive
person.
My next book is going to be ondysautonomia pots recovering
naturally from that.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
And that is a massive uptick in diagnosis.
Yes, I mean like.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I a lot of the comments genetic, but what we're
seeing now with different, withwith long COVID, we're we're
finally seeing because longCOVID people are being diagnosed
with it and it's actuallygetting more traction Like, well
, you know, I was misdiagnosedfor 37 years.
I was, I was medically gas lit.
So that's going to be the nextbook and I may write.
(34:31):
And then eventually I do wantto write something from a highly
sensitive person perspectivewhich is kind of the other book.
But you know, I've always gottwo or three books in the mind.
That's the problem.
I've got so much in there.
I don't think it's a problem.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
We need.
We need more material like thatthat talks about things that
you know are part of ourchanging and shifting world.
You know, yeah, and I've beenasked now to.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
you know I've had a lot of people with the, with
Reese, the last six months ishor so.
A lot of people have reachedout and said, well, you start
teaching herbalism again, and soI've had a couple of
conversation with people.
Just, lack of time is mainlythe only reason.
I said if you set up the class,tell me what you want, then
I'll come and teach it.
As long as it's within my zoneof genius, I'll never teach
(35:20):
about anything that's not withinmy zone of genius.
But I think right now you know,offering classes, local
community classes, even justgoing to the library, even if
you just offer, you know I'mgoing to do a library free
stress class I work with.
I've done free classes for likelocal veterinarians, you know.
So there's so many differentways that we can get our name
(35:42):
out there.
You don't always have to befree for presentations, you can
if that's something that feelsright for you.
My veterinarian is like, oh no,there's got to be an energetic
exchange.
We'll work that out, that's not.
I'm not worried about thefinancial part of it in any way,
shape or form.
I just want to be a blessingand I want to be a value and I
think that's really where we canshine right now.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, we are definitely, Ithink, rolling into some
interesting areas in our world.
It feels like it's changingincredibly fast.
I don't know if it's just I'mjust getting old, but it
definitely.
I'm like wait, what's going on?
And and I think that peopleneed something that's anchored
(36:25):
in realness and what's real thannature and health.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah, and to be honest with you, even if we
didn't look at it from an herbalperspective, even if we only
looked at it from a mentalhealth perspective, growing
plants and being out in thegarden and growing, even if you
don't, if you're not interestedin that aspect.
That's what I was going to say.
You took the words right out ofmy mouth.
Horticulture therapy andnature's therapy are valuable
(36:53):
tools for our mental health, andright now, mental health issues
are skyrocketing.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Oh, absolutely, you know what I'm gonna say this.
I think a lot of it has to dowith this box in front of us.
I think blue light and notgetting any fresh air and
sunshine.
And I actually a few weeks agomaybe it's closer to the
beginning of the year I actuallysaid, from now on I'm up with
the sun and I'm taking in thatred light and sunset, I'm taking
(37:21):
in that light.
I'm going to wear, you know, bemore proactive about wearing my
little blue light glasses whenI'm on the computer.
I can't really now because it'skind of weird to have someone
talking to you with pink lenses.
But my sleep's improved a tonyeah, like a ton.
My melatonin receptors arecompletely and I was like why
(37:46):
didn't no one tell me thisbefore?
I mean I have a cup of coffeelooking at the sunrise.
Hello.
That's everybody's dream, it'sbeautiful or whatever, and I
couldn't believe it.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
I just was like my sleep is so much better Just 10
minutes a day.
Yeah, I actually am a teacherassistant for the school where
I'm getting my doctor, mydoctoral program, and so unless
there's a video conference thatI have to be on late, everybody
knows I'm up with the chick.
What is that I get?
I get up with the chickens andgo to bed with the birds or
whatever the same yeah, yeah hey, but that's the same way.
I'm up at 5 am 99 of the time,unless I need an extra nap or
(38:27):
whatever, and at six o'clock thecomputer goes off, no matter
what, unless I've got, unlessyou know, god forbid, the house
was burning down and I got toget out or whatever the computer
goes off.
I adopted that many years agoand I'll tell you it was a huge
benefit.
Wow, I love that, I absolutelylove that.
And then quit the scroll, quitthe scrolling on it.
(38:49):
Doom scrolling, doom scrolling.
Yeah, yeah, replace thatscrolling on doom scrolling,
doom scrolling.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, oh yeah, replace that if it's not showing
me like someone in their garden.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Homemade bread or cute animal thing I'm not
interested I can show me alittle roly-poly kitten and I'm
good I know right, you know youcan replace that with little
micro learning some you knowherbalism or micro learning,
whatever you're interested in,and it's huge, you know it's.
(39:16):
You know I say this to myclients and I think I said it in
the book as well and and butit's.
This is true it's what we doday in, day out that either
hurts or heals.
It's our daily routine that iseither hurting us or healing us.
I love that, and that isdifficult to wrap our head
around, but when we have toolsthat we can do those things to
(39:38):
navigate that, oh wow, what adifference does it make.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Oh, I love that.
That's got to be like a newmotto for humankind, right, yeah
, make a choice.
You can hurt yourself or helpyourself today, but if you ask
yourself that, does this hurt orheal before you?
Speaker 2 (39:54):
I mean, you know I'm not saying you can't.
I mean, like I go to karaokeyou know I got to be honest with
you I might have a little glassof wine if I go to karaoke.
It's rare but I may do that,hey.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
I may be there next to you with the vodka.
I mean, there's no need for meto be a grown up, 24, seven
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
You got to get your dance on, you got to get your
groove, you know, and that'sgood Because that does help,
that is healing.
But what I mean is is it, whatare what we doing?
Speaker 1 (40:22):
You know, destructive habits, yeah yeah.
And are we loving in a waythat's helpful or harmful?
And are we helping each otherin a way that's helpful or
harmful?
You know, I've always tried toraise my kids with the idea that
the work that you do makes adifference.
And are you making a differencein a way that you're, you're
(40:43):
proud of yourself?
Are you making a difference ina way that I'm just doing this
for the money and there'snothing wrong with that approach
?
We all need money.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, I mean we have have to pay our bills we're
going to make a bigger impact inthe world in the long run.
just doing it for the money it'snot going to get.
You're just going to get burnedout and whatever and whatever.
Um, you've got to be passionate, like.
My daughter is like one of theonly certified baby wearers in
the state of virginia.
That's her passion and she'sgreat, great at it and she does
educational videos and all thatkind of stuff, but that is her
(41:16):
passion.
Now you can take that and alsohelp people and make money.
So that's the idea.
Now you got to figure out allthe nuances with it.
But I think you're right andthere's nothing wrong with also
working a nine to five whileyou're building your passion.
Or there's also nothing wrongwith working a nine to five and
your passion being checking outwhen you get home and just
(41:38):
checking out, yeah, and, andthen after you're home, that's
your passion.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Yeah, I agree.
I just like, uh, you knowyou're a small business owner
too, so you understand what I'msaying, but you know sometimes
there's something about leavingwork, shutting the light off and
going home and when you ownyour own ship, you can't always
do that that they were maybeupset that I couldn't offer them
(42:02):
an immediate appointment atthat time.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
But what kind of example am I'm going to set for
my clients if I am going toteach them about boundaries and
I am going to teach them aboutself-healing and I am going to
teach them how powerful they areand to stand in their own power
, if I don't stand in my ownpower before they even come to
me?
Yeah, really, really.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
You know what I mean.
Don't be a doormat.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Walk all over me.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
So I think we have to live it.
I think it can be difficult.
It can be difficult to live it,especially if you come from a
situation where you're in atrauma, with those type of
things and people pleasing.
We know it's a trauma response,but once you kind of work
through that stuff and you canstand in your power, I think
when you do that, you givepermission to other people to do
the same, and that's my goalreally in the end, whether they
(42:55):
just, like I've had people go Idon't want anything to do with
aromatherapy, but I want floweressences.
What can you recommend?
Okay, no worries, I got.
I got you covered on that oneas well.
But helping them stand in theirown power in whatever way feels
right for them, that's the mostimportant thing.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
I agree and I also find when working with clients
that if they aren't able to dothat and they don't feel
comfortable doing that,sometimes they don't tell you
right away if something isn'tworking right, because in the
past they've been gettingawesome.
It's a healing crisis.
You know, in the past they'vebeen told all this gobbledygook
(43:33):
right, we have so much toovercome from just crappy
marketing exactly exactly thesales pitch, but I mean like it
does allow them to also be likehey, this isn't working for me,
let's find a solution, and thenyou can help them find a
solution and you guys can worktogether and be a team and
collaboratively be yeah, a unitthat's working.
(43:56):
So how can people find youagain?
Speaker 2 (43:59):
yeah, I'm kellyhugercom.
It's kelly with an Ih-e-g-h-a-r-tcom, or I'm known
as mama kelly, so you can go tomama kellycom again.
Kelly with an I um, and myphone number is actually
804-YA-HYPNO.
I better do that for me,because I'm not tech savvy.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Oh, I love that, that's my direct line.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
I may not get back with you right away, but that is
my direct line.
You can leave a message andthen I'll be happy to circle
back.
That's awesome.
Thank you so much, but I wantto thank you for the work that
you're continuing to do and thework that you know, the
beautiful, compassionate,educated herbalist that you put
out in the world because that'spowerful.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Oh, thanks.
That's really sweet of you tosay.
I really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
That's really nice, you're making me all.
I'm going to turn even pinker.
Over here, we're all going tobe.
We're all clamped over here,we're all going to be red.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Well, thank you so much for being here today, and
do me a favor and get us a linkto your book, if you can, so we
can put it in the bio.
If you don't have it and it'snot ready yet, whenever it's
ready, you send it to me.
Everyone's listening, so then Ican put it in later so people
can find you and the work thatyou do Perfect and send the
(45:19):
links to everything else.
Yeah, sounds great.
All right, cool, thank you somuch Thanks bye-bye, bye.
Hi, this is Demetria Clark, the director of Heart of
Herbs Herbal School, and todaywe're talking to Kelly Hugert.
Did I say that right?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
That's right.
Kind of sounds like yogurt, yep.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Wonderful and Kelly is really one of these people
that's a lifetime herbalist.
Of these people that's alifetime herbalist and I say
that because her herbal originstory is just part of her life
and her upbringing and where shelives, and it's connected.
(00:56):
And I don't know how long we'veknown each other, gosh, it's
been a lot of years.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I know it's different to say it's been a lot of years
.
I don't know how many, but it'sbeen a lot yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
And when I met you, you were an accomplished
herbalist and healthpractitioner back then.
So I just I'm so excited tohave you on and to talk to you
in this way, and so tell us, howdid you get started in all of
this?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, well, first of all I want to thank you for your
work Because you're educatingherbalists out there and
aromatherapists and the birtharts and all that thing.
So I want to give honor andcredit to you Because,
especially the green spiritprogram, if I can put a plug in
for you, green Spirit Program,if I can put a plug in for you.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
You know, because I had already been making herbal
medicine.
You know, it's a journey forall of us, you know.
But we start out somewhere.
But I'd already been doingherbalism and stuff like that.
But the Green Spirit Programcompletely changed my life.
I'm actually talking about itin my dissertation, but anyway.
So, yes, I want to say first ofall to you thank you so much
for the work that you're doingand I'm just so grateful for you
.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Well, thank you, that's really cool.
You are probably one of themost educated students we've
ever worked with, because whensomeone doesn't stop, that's how
we have to describe youreducational journey.
So how did this connection withherbalism start for you?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, my great grandmother was actually an
herbalist, so back then theycalled them granny witches,
granny herbalists.
You know Appalachian, you knowAppalachian born, bred and
raised, and so she was actuallyan herbalist and so I can't tell
the whole story here becausethat was probably about 40 years
ago.
But about 40 years ago I mademy first herbal medicine in the
(02:53):
house that I now live in.
My grandfather came home fromthe war and he built his house
with his bare hands and I wasabout 14, you know, teenager.
And I was about 14, you know,teenager, and my grandma you're
going to laugh at this mygrandmother would make us drink
yellow root tea.
That's what we called it then.
Of course we know that'sHydrastis canadensis and that's
(03:16):
an at-risk plant, that we know.
We only use it now when eitherwe grow it or from ethical you
know places.
But that's how I got started.
She made all of usgrandchildren drink it.
My grandfather had ulcers so badand he actually had to crawl to
his company truck.
He could not even walk and Iremember the story really well.
(03:40):
It was actually in his chairright here in the living room
and he just said I doctored anddoctored and doctored for years.
That's what he called it.
And he said and, and they neverhelped me.
And so he went to catfish manof the woods I don't know if
you've ever heard catfish.
Anyway, so long story short,that's when I started making my
own first herbal medicine waswith was yellow root tea, and we
(04:02):
drank it.
Every time we come into thehouse you make a drink at that
casserole is that funny, what agrandma can make you do I know
I'm like, I'm thinking about itnow with my grandkids, I'm like
on, you know, but you know,that's just the way it was.
You know, and my grandfatheractually was on the front page
of the newspaper one time forgrowing his gorge.
(04:22):
You know they were gardenersand you know they lived through
the depression, so they did allthe things.
Um, now, really, that wasprobably the only plant that my
grandmother worked with.
It was her mother.
That was the herbalist.
But you know, just over time Ilatched on to it and I don't I
think a lot of it was because,um, I I'm a highly sensitive
person, um, and that's what mydissertation is on.
(04:45):
And so, going through my lifecrash.
Conventional medicine hasfailed me so many times, but
herbalism has always been there.
Flower essences has always beenthere, not only for me but for
my child, for my dogs.
Those have passed on.
My Weimaraner actually lived anextra.
She was given six months tolive and she lived another two
(05:07):
years with quality life becauseof herbalism.
So yeah, it's been a passion ofmine, since, and my daughter
already.
You know my daughter is anatural birther.
She's birthed all her kidsnaturally and she's already made
her first medicine.
My grandkids already know, Ithink, my youngest, I think he
(05:28):
was two when he made his firstherbal medicine of dandelion
tincture.
So yeah, so it's in our family,it's in our blood and it always
has been.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I love that.
So you and I share an affinityto.
I'm going to put on myheadphones real quick.
For some reason it's giving mean error, so I want to make sure
that I don't mean to interruptyou, so let me just it'll help.
All right, Can you hear me?
(05:58):
Absolutely Okay, cool.
So it's telling me that yourdefault microphone has changed.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Oh, I know.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
It's like, oh, like, come on man.
So my grandmother is fromBuncombe County, virginia oh,
okay and you're from WestVirginia and I mean, but um
there's something special aboutthe women from that area.
Like my grandmother was acomplete hell on wheels, like
(06:30):
total terror.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I tell this joke but it's serious.
My grandmother, if mygrandmother told my papa to get
his hind parts home, that's justsort of lingo at the time.
To get his hind parts home, youknow that's, that's just sort
of lingo at the time.
He got his hind parts home thegetting got done.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I just love that.
I love that, um, you're fromone of my favorite states, like
I love West Virginia.
If it wasn't so far from mychildren, that's's probably
where I would be.
It just reminds me of where Idon't know.
I just have an affinity and aconnection.
It's so freaking beautiful.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
It's beautiful and we can grow so many things and of
course, I have acreage inVirginia as well where I grow
at-risk plants as well.
I got about 61 acres there andbut you know we can grow so many
things here that you know thatare that would grow like in
(07:33):
China and like their herbalism.
I'm like, well, I can do thesame thing here and I've got the
plants here and I can walk outmy door, literally.
I have an herb garden here.
I also do aquaponics.
I have an herb garden here.
I also do aquaponics.
I have an aquaponics system inmy basement as well, yeah like
I'm all in.
I had to downsize some of myplants to the point I'm like,
all right, we might have to putsome of these outside.
(07:53):
We've got some of them out onthe.
But yeah, I, you know, I've hadpeople come in and go where's
the furniture?
I'm like, look, if I could getrid of all the furniture and
have plants, trust me, Iwouldn't.
Yeah.
But you know, my grandmotherwas the same way.
I live in her house now and thewhole back porch which is like
a sunroom, but we always calledit the back porch.
She had all her plants outthere.
(08:14):
So she was.
She was a plant person as well.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, oh, I love that .
I love that the affinity andthat connection, and I love that
you're growing at risk Thingsthat people may think oh, you
know, I'll just get it fromChina.
No, let's not get our herbalmedicine from overseas.
We've had so many issues withadulteration and all kinds of
(08:39):
other things.
Find a local producer, grow ityourself.
I mean, there's huge programsjust set up to help people learn
how to do that and to keep youknow, like I'm always about
supporting local economies any,any way that I can, and yeah,
and I teach my apprentices, yeah, and I taught my.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I used to have nine month apprentices as well and
you know, I taught the samething.
I said we don't know when themail, you know, god forbid can
stop or things can happen.
And and I taught aboutadulteration, because I think
it's really important that weteach about that and I don't
think that everybody knows aboutthat.
So that's a passion of mine aswell and I and I always started
my apprentices out and even mydaughter anybody really that I
(09:23):
taught with easy things to growfirst.
You know, start with your mints.
They like to take over, butthey're so beneficial and
depends on how you make them.
You can get different benefitsfrom the same plant based on
what time it grew, when it grew,when you harvested, would you
did a prep, which you know,whether you did a fresh plant
tincture, whether you a you're,you know so many different ways.
(09:45):
So, yeah, I'm all about grow asmuch as you can and let your
weeds grow.
Actually, you're, you'llappreciate this.
All you herbal people are goingto appreciate this.
I actually bought cleats and Isow chickweed and white clover
through my entire yard to try toget rid of the grass.
With wait, with cleats, yes,cleats yes, oh my gosh, you know
(10:05):
they go smart.
Yeah, I got them on the bottomof my shoes and my neighbor was
like, what are you doing?
And I have a grass guy.
I'm like well, I'm trying to putyou out of business is what I
told him, so that I can have myentire yard weeds, weedy plants,
things we can, and that's mygoal is to completely eradicate.
Eradicate grass.
(10:26):
It's my mission in life.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
I want to do some traditional like hedgerows.
I'm like really like, yes, ofcourse that's on the list of a
million things that we have todo.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
My list is a million.
I need a, I need a crew.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I know right, wouldn't that be great Like you
know just hey, 15 people drop byand they they somehow get paid
an equitable wage.
But I love that, so you also.
So you have explored so manydifferent modalities and
(11:05):
combined them into differentsystems, and I would love to
hear about your wellnesspractice and what you offer
individuals in that, and I'dlove to hear more about your
dissertation too.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So I'm really excited about the dissertation because
in the dissertation I'll startthere and I'll circle back.
But in the dissertation I'mtalking about my recovery of
complex post-traumatic stressdisorder as a highly sensitive
person due to intimate partnerviolence.
Conventional medicinecompletely failed me.
(11:41):
I did the quote, unquote, rightthings.
I was a therapy dropout and Isaid you know what?
There's got to be a better way.
I had a really, really lifealtering, life crash moment when
I didn't think I was going tomake it through this world at
all and I said there's got to bea better way.
I remember I looked up, I heardthe whisper and the whisper
(12:02):
said look up.
And when I looked up I saw mygrandbaby's face in the clouds
and I was like, okay, there'sgot to be a better way and you
have the skills and you're goingto find it.
And so my dissertation is aboutplant-based therapy, flower
essences, adaptogens, herbalnerve vibes, and then also I'm
layering in mind body medicine,hypnosis, guided imagery and
these types of things, energeticmedicine, and I have used that
(12:25):
to create my own integrativehypnosis practice.
I see clients typically.
I do have a group program aswell, so I have a group program.
That's a low cost.
You know, low cost programBecause I want to make it
affordable for everybody.
And then I have free stuff,obviously on my website, on
YouTube.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
So oh you have great content you share lots of really
good information with people,yeah, so that's my goal.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah, my goal is to share as much free stuff as I
can and then do a low cost forthose people.
And then, of course, workingwith me privately is obviously,
you know, a little bit more ofan investment.
But in that, in my privatepractice, you know, I'm going to
teach them every tool I can,and if they're interested in
herbalism and flower essences,aromatherapy, I'm obviously
going to share that.
(13:11):
And then I do an intake withthem to make sure I'm, you know,
giving them the rightsuggestions based on their
constitution and these typethings.
But I have integrated thatbased on, you know, just based
on collecting all theinformation for years, and I've
found that there are people thatcome to me for hypnosis who are
not interested in, like, plantmedicine and that's there's.
(13:32):
You know I can teach thembreath work and you know I can
teach them other tools for, like, anxiety and whatnot.
But my people, a lot of them,are drawn to me because I, you
know, have worked with herbalismand aromatherapy for like what?
40 years now.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Basically yeah, yeah, wow.
I can just.
I can just imagine theapplications for something like
this.
I mean veterans groups, youknow, children who've
experienced different kinds oftrauma.
I mean, like just thisintegrative approach to trauma
(14:08):
is it's funny because, like itmakes so much sense.
It's just sad that we're so farbehind on it.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Like yes, we are probably, I mean you know I was
going to say 50 years at least,but, yeah, I think you're about
right, I'd say between 30 and 50years behind.
And and the research there are.
There is some new peeredresearch coming out on
aromatherapy and PTSD, or whatwe now know for some people to
(14:40):
be complex PTSD, because it'snot one individual event right,
it's a series.
So those children who have highACE scores, like me, or then
have chosen, unfortunately,dysfunctional relationships
based on their high scores or,you know, other types of trauma,
we are finally coming out withpeer review research that says
(15:02):
it's not just PTSD.
Right, this is complex PTSD.
This is an ongoing thing andwhen you have something that's
been ongoing for a long time,you can't talk it out.
With all due respect, talktherapy, while very valuable and
I'm not against therapists andI tell my clients keep your
therapist and I have a lovelyone and I'm not trying to diss
(15:22):
them but it's not a panacea andthe body is a whole.
We are a whole person, whichyou know.
We learned this in our classes.
A heart does not walk into acardiologist office, right.
A lung you know a set of lungsdoesn't walk into a phone, right
?
We need a whole system approach.
We need a whole body approach,a holistic approach.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
So yeah, yeah, wow, no, that's so awesome.
I know that, um, I know that weforget.
It's so easy in this culture tosee an ad oh, this will take
away your depression, orwhatever, and we're like, okay,
that's, and that's a tool.
And every therapy is therapy isa tool.
(16:08):
What you're doing is tools, anddrugs are tools and herbs are
tools, and getting someone whoknows how to use the tools in
the toolbox effectively feelslike I don't know very hard.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
It's very, very very difficult.
You might find somebody whoknows this one particular area
and they may suggest an herb,but they don't have the
extensive knowledge to know.
Like.
Somebody came to me many yearsago and they said my therapist
suggested kava and I said, well,tell me a little bit more about
(16:43):
your situation.
I was a martial arts teacher atthe time and she told me a
little bit about it and I waslike, well, well, well, that's
contraindicated for you.
And she said, oh, it is.
Well, that's contraindicatedfor you.
And she said, oh, it is.
And I explained to her why andall the things.
And she goes, oh, and so we?
And again, this is nothingagainst anybody.
I see this with medical doctors.
I see medical doctors,therapists, psychotherapists,
(17:04):
that are really acting out oftheir zone of genius on things
and recommending things thatmaybe they read an article on
and maybe it is peer reviewed,and that's great.
We need peer reviewed evidence,even in herbalism.
We love that, yeah, yeah.
So I'm not against that.
But what they didn't get is theconstitution right, the
energetics, like the actual, ofknowing what's going on, and
(17:32):
without that piece of the puzzle, which you and I know, we could
be giving them an herb that isgoing to actually do worse or
more harm, and so now then theygo away thinking that herbalism
doesn't work, or you knowHerbalist or a bunch of cuckoo
brains.
Whatever, they didn't care aboutwhat was safe for me.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, yeah, no, it was funny.
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, no,it was funny.
Recently, someone that I lovedidn't ask me for advice.
They trusted some person DrGoogle probably and they're like
they were taking so muchturmeric that their skin was oh
my gosh gosh and their eyes were.
(18:10):
I was like dude, stop.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Well, I probably should have asked you yeah, you
probably should have, but maybethere's a little tip there if
you do ask, it will not be free.
At this point, you, freaking,blew the free advice.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
you know people, they just sometimes they'll read
something and be like yeah, thisis it, and sometimes it isn't
sometimes it's not, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
That's the thing that is frustrating.
That has been the thing that isfrustrating for me.
I've had clients that have cometo me five, ten years ago and
you know, and I said you knowthis is we can work together.
Of course, my prices back thenwere way cheaper.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
They, and this is we can work together.
Of course my prices back thenwere way cheaper.
Oh, I'm sure they were probablytoo cheap back then.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
They were actually too cheap back then anyway, but
that's okay.
But you know, they would say,well, you know what?
And I'd say you know, well,it's going to save you more
money to work with someone who'sexperienced and skilled.
And these people will come backto me and this is the part
(19:17):
that's so hard for me as apractitioner they will come back
to me five years, three years,five years, ten years later and
they just spin their wheels,spin their wheels and then they
are worse.
Especially, I see this withchronic illness people, which I
know we all need to have ourjourneys.
I don't want to take awayanyone's journey oh yeah, no, no
, no, no, I'm getting so I'm nottrying to take away anyone's
journey, but chronic illness.
you know like I specialize inpeople who have dysautonomia,
pots or chronic conditions thatare really not getting help with
(19:38):
conventional medicine, andthey'll spend their wills and
they'll spend their money onherbs and they might have a
whole cabinet of stuff that'snot working.
Spend their wills and theirspend their money and all that
that adds up to working withsomeone who can help you and you
can then move forward and domore of what you love in your
life oh yeah, I always look.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
This is something that I tell people all the time
is you know, uh, pay the expert,exactly I do, I'm not trying to
install a toilet.
I don't know how to do that.
I'm going to pay someone to dothat.
Well, I've actually done that.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Well, I've helped, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
But I mean the reality is, is that we have such
this thing that there's so muchmore value in trying to do it
ourself.
Much more value and trying todo it ourself.
And yeah, there isn't somethings, especially if it's stuff
that you enjoy and you like,but sometimes I'm like, and if
it's your zone of genius,obviously.
I'm gonna blend.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
My own herbal remedies like yeah, yeah, you
know, I have a pop the carry inmy basement that at last count,
was over a thousand jars andthere's stuff sitting on the
floor at this point.
But you know, and I've got awhole library and I have a
lending library, you have tocome and sit in the library.
You're not allowed to.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
You don't leave my house with that book.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Well, because I lost a book.
You know, I have books that arefrom the 1800s that you can't
get anymore.
They're very expensive.
So I'm like you can come, butyou know, if that's your zone of
genius, that's great.
But even I hire out, like youknow, and there's nothing.
We I think it's this idea thatwe're admitting defeat, or
whether or not we're not smartenough, and I think the value
(21:22):
here is to recognize thatsomeone else may have a zone of
genius that you don't have andthat you can learn from.
And then you know, later on, ifyou want to make that your own
genius, we'll probably need more, whatever that person is doing
anyway, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I think it's about also claiming our power.
So paying someone to do the job, that to help us with something
, isn't defeatist.
It's saying I'm, I'm owningthis situation and I believe I'm
worth the expert help or theexpert guidance.
And then doing it becausepeople have endless amounts of
(22:00):
money for the shake formulas orwhatever scheme comes their way
and I'm like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
I have literally seen women pay and this is seems to
be more.
I work mostly with women.
I do work with men as well, butI do work more with women and
it seems like number one.
We have this and this is asocietal cancer.
Quote unquote, if you will.
I'm not taking away from thediagnosis, but this is a
societal problem that we have.
(22:29):
That maybe is a better termthat women.
We do not, we can't invest inourselves, we can't invest in
our health and I'm like okay,but you're paying 500 for
something that somebody signed,a piece of paper and they're not
even educated on what you'retaking.
It may be doing more harm thangood.
Or then you get that okay, nowherbalism doesn't work, whereas
if you, if you took the threemonths and ditching that stuff
(22:51):
and you actually worked withsomeone, you're going to cause,
they're going to tailor it toyou, they're going to and
they're going to say okay,what's working, what's not
working, what do we need to do,what do we need to tweak, what
else can we do in this?
And they're also going to giveyou a lifetime benefit yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And then it can last a lifetime instead of you know
whatever $500 a month forsomething that you can't.
Or whatever.
That's exactly right and I'mnot saying that those things
don't necessarily have theirplace.
As anyone who knows anythingabout me knows, I am not a fan
of MLM kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
No me neither.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
We find a way to afford the things we want, and
it is okay for us to affordsomeone to help us when we need
it.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yes, absolutely, I know for me.
I think, for me personally, oneof the things that was an eye
opener for me was my grandbabyat the time, grand number one,
who's eight now.
He said, mama, why you cry allthe time?
You need hugs, time you needhugs.
(23:55):
And what I realized was me notgetting the help and the support
that I needed and, moreimportantly, deserved was
affecting him, and we don'talways think about it like that
is whatever it is.
And so now, of course, I needto do it for me and I think you
know I like I work with peoplewith like smoking cessation and
I work with like anxiety, peoplein chronic illness.
I do a lot of different work butultimately it needs to be for
(24:17):
you.
But sometimes you don't havethat, that in you in the moment,
the inspiration to do it.
Yeah, that's how people, if youcan't do it for you, do it for
your dog, do it for yourgrandbabies, do it for your
children, whatever that quoteunquote is, whatever that quote
unquote is and then, after youget you start healing.
Then you're going to see I'mworth it, yeah, I'm worth it to
(24:37):
do it for me.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I do love that I do love that.
I feel like um.
I heard someone interesting saysomething about um.
The loss of ancestral knowledgeand care over the last few
generations has really distancedand separated humans from being
able to say I'm worth this forwhatever is going on inside.
(25:02):
Not, I make a lot of money, soI deserve a car.
You know like that, thatdifference between taking care
of ourselves and between takingcare of ourselves and whatever
money can buy us because we knowmoney can buy a lot, you know.
I think it's really cool thatyou work with people in a way
that helps them have some longterm effects and sustainability
(25:26):
in their treatment.
I think that's awesome.
So where can people find?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
you.
Yeah, so I'm kellyhugertcom.
Kelly with an I hugertcom orMama Kelly, we'll all should get
there as well M-A-W-M-A-W.
Kellywithanicom, becauseeverybody calls me Mama Kelly.
Either one of those will getyou to my website and you know I
always do like pro bonoconsultation.
It's no cost to see if we arematched to work together.
(25:52):
More importantly, if I havetools to support someone because
I want to be ethical in mypractice as well and if I get to
talk with someone and I don'tfeel like I'm the best
practitioner for them, I'm goingto do the right thing Refer
them to someone else.
So the call is free and theycan jump on my website and
schedule a call.
I only work two days a weekright now because I'm in
(26:13):
dissertation.
I'm almost finished, actually,with my research, but because of
what we talked about is we haveto take care of ourselves first
, right?
If you can't put your own maskon, you can't help anybody else.
So I do work two days a weekright now until at least until I
finish up my dissertation.
But, yeah, a phone call with meis totally free and then we
discuss whether or not there'sresources there.
(26:33):
If not, I refer them tosomebody else and then, of
course, if I have the resourcesfor them sometimes I do, unless
it's something extremelycomplicated Then we talk about
what does that look like for usto work together?
Speaker 1 (26:44):
That's awesome.
I love the.
That's always been a big thingfor me the referring someone on
and I don't feel like is goingto be a good match or get
benefit from from working withme.
And sometimes they come backand say you told me to try this
out.
I didn't like them.
I do want to work with you andmaybe the vibe is different at
that point, Right, yeah.
But I think that's so importantto remember that you don't have
(27:08):
to be the perfect fit foreveryone, right, and not
everyone needs to get everythingthey need from one person.
You know, as you were sayingearlier, staying in your zone of
genius and stuff like that.
You know, I think it's likeit's so important because not
everybody, not every healthprovider, can give every client
(27:30):
everything they need, and theyshouldn't.
That's scary.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Right, exactly, I mean, I like they can?
Speaker 1 (27:36):
that's a little like oh okay, how big's the ego man.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, and I, you know I'll refer different tools, you
know.
I mean, you know I'll say thisis what we're going to do, but
here's a tool from this person,I learned from this person,
here's a resource from thisperson, or whatnot.
But you absolutely have to bein your zone of genius.
You know, I love babyherbalists.
They're so beautiful, they'reso wonderful, they're so excited
(28:01):
, and I love their excitement.
And also, at the same time, wealso have to understand that and
they need to learn too.
We all need to learn and we'veall been white belts, so to
speak, at some point, but that'sfine.
But we also still have toremember to act in our zone of
genius and make sure that weresonate with somebody, because
if it feels like there's aconflict, it may not be the best
fit, and it may.
They may be anotherpractitioner that's a better fit
.
I had one client come to me.
(28:22):
This was many years ago.
She had spent over $15,000 onpractitioners, tests, all these
things, and when she came, cameto me I'm typically people's
last stop shop, so to speak,like I'm like we've tried
everything, we're not sure whoto reach out to, but somebody
gave you, you know, somebodygave me your number, that kind
(28:43):
of thing.
So usually that tends to be theclients that I get.
But she had spent over fifteenthousand dollars on supplements,
practitioners, practitioners,whatever and when she came in to
work with me she was realhesitant, which I don't blame
her.
That's more money going out.
And after we worked togetheryou know it was like maybe six
weeks or something, I can'tremember now that was a long
time ago she was like, oh mygosh, I wish I'd found you
(29:04):
before.
I spent $15,000 in all thismess, yeah and I say that to say
.
I mean, we used to be at least anice used car.
Probably not now, but but but.
But that's sort of my point toall that you know.
Find somebody, have a chat withthem, but wasting your time and
(29:25):
spinning your wheels for yearsand years and years or worse,
asking social media, wherepeople have very little
education on unless it really istheir zone of genius, and
usually they're not spendingtime answering the questions
anyway, they're usually seeingclients.
It's just really reallyimportant to make sure that you
find somebody that resonateswith you, and whoever that is,
(29:46):
that's perfect, as long asthey're skilled.
Check like on my website, whichI'm sure you do this as well.
On my website I have a little.
Do this as well.
On my website I have a littlething they can click on.
It says my education.
Now I don't list everythingbecause I'd be here, you know
you would literally have 50pages, literally.
I know, but what I do is I listthe highlights and you know, and
(30:09):
all those things.
So they.
I don't want them to take myword for it.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
I want them to say, okay, okay, okay, okay we have
people call us to verify thatstudents actually went through
the program.
Consumers are getting a lotmore educated.
Clients are starting to say,hey, we can verify this stuff.
There's places we can call.
So I'm always telling studentslook, you put your education on
there and you invite them, yes,to check on you.
(30:34):
I do Give them that whole coneof safety.
Yeah, so people feel so muchmore confident in the industry
and in their practitioner.
I just love that you put thatinformation out there and you've
always been an advocate of youknow, being clear, and you know,
and I've always really likedthat about all the work that
(30:56):
I've seen of yours.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, I've always been known as the no fads zone.
I don't do fads.
I never have done fads.
I always look at the research,peer-reviewed research and I
want to make sure that, at theend of the day, when I lay my
head down on the pillow, thatnot only the content I put out
(31:18):
on social media, but my practiceyou know my private practice,
my clients, whatever I want toknow that I've done the best
that I can and I've given them1000%.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
I love that.
I love that.
I agree.
I think that, look, we don'thave to be perfect, we don't
have to get everything right allthe time Nobody does but I
think we all got to work hard tobe as transparent and as clear
as possible with clients, and Ithink that one of the great
things is being able to say noto a client or being able to say
(31:45):
yeah, no, this is and I havedone that.
I know you have.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
I've said to people.
You know, with all due respect,I don't think here's a resource
.
Let me see if I can.
I have referred people out,like I mean, I'm just like I
don't specialize in that and butI know somebody who does and
I'm more than happy to do that,and it's not it.
It's, I think, to me if apractitioner can't do that,
(32:12):
that's more of a red flag.
Exactly, I agree with you 100%To me then you know to say oh no
, I know it all and I can do itall.
Eh what can you?
So?
Yeah, no, I think it's realimportant to be ethical in your
practice.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Oh, I love that.
I love that so much.
So what else are you up tolately?
Because you are always doingsomething.
So what other things can peopleexpect from you soon?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Well, I'm working on the dissertation, so that's you
know.
Once it's done, then you got togo through and edit.
So even though it's, you know,pretty much done, there's edits
and there's all the kinds ofthings.
You know it's close but anyway.
And then I did publish one bookthat is going to, that's being
republished now, but it's kindof on the back burner and it is
(32:59):
actually about what mydissertation is on.
You know, therapeutics forcomplex PTSD.
The name of it, the name of itescapes me.
I think I call it.
We may come up with a new title, but it's the first time I just
self-published.
It was from lost to living mindbody medicine, approach to
recovery from abuse.
But within that mind bodymedicine model is herbs, you
(33:23):
know, aromatherapy, floweressences, and I pack that in.
Now, I don't overwhelm people,so I only share, like my top
three essential oils.
Overwhelm people, so I onlyshare, like my top three
essential oils.
Right, my top three.
Whatever, I'd like to do thetop three, because you know I
could write probably a series ofbooks at this point if you can
nail me down, make me sit downlong enough, but so you can.
(33:44):
you can look for that.
You can go to the website.
I'm always have like a new blogcoming out.
I have the group program, so soyou know if anybody is
struggling with complex PTSD,especially as a highly sensitive
person.
My next book is going to be ondysautonomia pots recovering
naturally from that.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
And that is a massive uptick in diagnosis.
Yes, I mean like.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I a lot of the comments genetic, but what we're
seeing now with different, withwith long COVID, we're we're
finally seeing because longCOVID people are being diagnosed
with it and it's actuallygetting more traction Like, well
, you know, I was misdiagnosedfor 37 years.
I was, I was medically gas lit.
So that's going to be the nextbook and I may write.
(34:31):
And then eventually I do wantto write something from a highly
sensitive person perspectivewhich is kind of the other book.
But you know, I've always gottwo or three books in the mind.
That's the problem.
I've got so much in there.
I don't think it's a problem.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
We need.
We need more material like thatthat talks about things that
you know are part of ourchanging and shifting world.
You know, yeah, and I've beenasked now to.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
you know I've had a lot of people with the, with
Reese, the last six months ishor so.
A lot of people have reachedout and said, well, you start
teaching herbalism again, and soI've had a couple of
conversation with people.
Just, lack of time is mainlythe only reason.
I said if you set up the class,tell me what you want, then
I'll come and teach it.
As long as it's within my zoneof genius, I'll never teach
(35:20):
about anything that's not withinmy zone of genius.
But I think right now you know,offering classes, local
community classes, even justgoing to the library, even if
you just offer, you know I'mgoing to do a library free
stress class I work with.
I've done free classes for likelocal veterinarians, you know.
So there's so many differentways that we can get our name
(35:42):
out there.
You don't always have to befree for presentations, you can
if that's something that feelsright for you.
My veterinarian is like, oh no,there's got to be an energetic
exchange.
We'll work that out, that's not.
I'm not worried about thefinancial part of it in any way,
shape or form.
I just want to be a blessingand I want to be a value and I
think that's really where we canshine right now.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, we are definitely, Ithink, rolling into some
interesting areas in our world.
It feels like it's changingincredibly fast.
I don't know if it's just I'mjust getting old, but it
definitely.
I'm like wait, what's going on?
And and I think that peopleneed something that's anchored
(36:25):
in realness and what's real thannature and health.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah, and to be honest with you, even if we
didn't look at it from an herbalperspective, even if we only
looked at it from a mentalhealth perspective, growing
plants and being out in thegarden and growing, even if you
don't, if you're not interestedin that aspect.
That's what I was going to say.
You took the words right out ofmy mouth.
Horticulture therapy andnature's therapy are valuable
(36:53):
tools for our mental health, andright now, mental health issues
are skyrocketing.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Oh, absolutely, you know what I'm gonna say this.
I think a lot of it has to dowith this box in front of us.
I think blue light and notgetting any fresh air and
sunshine.
And I actually a few weeks agomaybe it's closer to the
beginning of the year I actuallysaid, from now on I'm up with
the sun and I'm taking in thatred light and sunset, I'm taking
(37:21):
in that light.
I'm going to wear, you know, bemore proactive about wearing my
little blue light glasses whenI'm on the computer.
I can't really now because it'skind of weird to have someone
talking to you with pink lenses.
But my sleep's improved a tonyeah, like a ton.
My melatonin receptors arecompletely and I was like why
(37:46):
didn't no one tell me thisbefore?
I mean I have a cup of coffeelooking at the sunrise.
Hello.
That's everybody's dream, it'sbeautiful or whatever, and I
couldn't believe it.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
I just was like my sleep is so much better Just 10
minutes a day.
Yeah, I actually am a teacherassistant for the school where
I'm getting my doctor, mydoctoral program, and so unless
there's a video conference thatI have to be on late, everybody
knows I'm up with the chick.
What is that I get?
I get up with the chickens andgo to bed with the birds or
whatever the same yeah, yeah hey, but that's the same way.
I'm up at 5 am 99 of the time,unless I need an extra nap or
(38:27):
whatever, and at six o'clock thecomputer goes off, no matter
what, unless I've got, unlessyou know, god forbid, the house
was burning down and I got toget out or whatever the computer
goes off.
I adopted that many years agoand I'll tell you it was a huge
benefit.
Wow, I love that, I absolutelylove that.
And then quit the scroll, quitthe scrolling on it.
(38:49):
Doom scrolling, doom scrolling.
Yeah, yeah, replace thatscrolling on doom scrolling,
doom scrolling.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, oh yeah, replace that if it's not showing
me like someone in their garden.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Homemade bread or cute animal thing I'm not
interested I can show me alittle roly-poly kitten and I'm
good I know right, you know youcan replace that with little
micro learning some you knowherbalism or micro learning,
whatever you're interested in,and it's huge, you know it's.
(39:16):
You know I say this to myclients and I think I said it in
the book as well and and butit's.
This is true it's what we doday in, day out that either
hurts or heals.
It's our daily routine that iseither hurting us or healing us.
I love that, and that isdifficult to wrap our head
around, but when we have toolsthat we can do those things to
(39:38):
navigate that, oh wow, what adifference does it make.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Oh, I love that.
That's got to be like a newmotto for humankind, right, yeah
, make a choice.
You can hurt yourself or helpyourself today, but if you ask
yourself that, does this hurt orheal before you?
Speaker 2 (39:54):
I mean, you know I'm not saying you can't.
I mean, like I go to karaokeyou know I got to be honest with
you I might have a little glassof wine if I go to karaoke.
It's rare but I may do that,hey.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
I may be there next to you with the vodka.
I mean, there's no need for meto be a grown up, 24, seven
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
You got to get your dance on, you got to get your
groove, you know, and that'sgood Because that does help,
that is healing.
But what I mean is is it, whatare what we doing?
Speaker 1 (40:22):
You know, destructive habits, yeah yeah.
And are we loving in a waythat's helpful or harmful?
And are we helping each otherin a way that's helpful or
harmful?
You know, I've always tried toraise my kids with the idea that
the work that you do makes adifference.
And are you making a differencein a way that you're, you're
(40:43):
proud of yourself?
Are you making a difference ina way that I'm just doing this
for the money and there'snothing wrong with that approach
?
We all need money.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, I mean we have have to pay our bills we're
going to make a bigger impact inthe world in the long run.
just doing it for the money it'snot going to get.
You're just going to get burnedout and whatever and whatever.
Um, you've got to be passionate, like.
My daughter is like one of theonly certified baby wearers in
the state of virginia.
That's her passion and she'sgreat, great at it and she does
educational videos and all thatkind of stuff, but that is her
(41:16):
passion.
Now you can take that and alsohelp people and make money.
So that's the idea.
Now you got to figure out allthe nuances with it.
But I think you're right andthere's nothing wrong with also
working a nine to five whileyou're building your passion.
Or there's also nothing wrongwith working a nine to five and
your passion being checking outwhen you get home and just
(41:38):
checking out, yeah, and, andthen after you're home, that's
your passion.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Yeah, I agree.
I just like, uh, you knowyou're a small business owner
too, so you understand what I'msaying, but you know sometimes
there's something about leavingwork, shutting the light off and
going home and when you ownyour own ship, you can't always
do that that they were maybeupset that I couldn't offer them
(42:02):
an immediate appointment atthat time.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
But what kind of example am I'm going to set for
my clients if I am going toteach them about boundaries and
I am going to teach them aboutself-healing and I am going to
teach them how powerful they areand to stand in their own power
, if I don't stand in my ownpower before they even come to
me?
Yeah, really, really.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
You know what I mean.
Don't be a doormat.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Walk all over me.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
So I think we have to live it.
I think it can be difficult.
It can be difficult to live it,especially if you come from a
situation where you're in atrauma, with those type of
things and people pleasing.
We know it's a trauma response,but once you kind of work
through that stuff and you canstand in your power, I think
when you do that, you givepermission to other people to do
the same, and that's my goalreally in the end, whether they
(42:55):
just, like I've had people go Idon't want anything to do with
aromatherapy, but I want floweressences.
What can you recommend?
Okay, no worries, I got.
I got you covered on that oneas well.
But helping them stand in theirown power in whatever way feels
right for them, that's the mostimportant thing.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
I agree and I also find when working with clients
that if they aren't able to dothat and they don't feel
comfortable doing that,sometimes they don't tell you
right away if something isn'tworking right, because in the
past they've been gettingawesome.
It's a healing crisis.
You know, in the past they'vebeen told all this gobbledygook
(43:33):
right, we have so much toovercome from just crappy
marketing exactly exactly thesales pitch, but I mean like it
does allow them to also be likehey, this isn't working for me,
let's find a solution, and thenyou can help them find a
solution and you guys can worktogether and be a team and
collaboratively be yeah, a unitthat's working.
(43:56):
So how can people find youagain?
Speaker 2 (43:59):
yeah, I'm kellyhugercom.
It's kelly with an Ih-e-g-h-a-r-tcom, or I'm known
as mama kelly, so you can go tomama kellycom again.
Kelly with an I um, and myphone number is actually
804-YA-HYPNO.
I better do that for me,because I'm not tech savvy.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Oh, I love that, that's my direct line.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
I may not get back with you right away, but that is
my direct line.
You can leave a message andthen I'll be happy to circle
back.
That's awesome.
Thank you so much, but I wantto thank you for the work that
you're continuing to do and thework that you know, the
beautiful, compassionate,educated herbalist that you put
out in the world because that'spowerful.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Oh, thanks.
That's really sweet of you tosay.
I really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
That's really nice, you're making me all.
I'm going to turn even pinker.
Over here, we're all going tobe.
We're all clamped over here,we're all going to be red.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Well, thank you so much for being here today, and
do me a favor and get us a linkto your book, if you can, so we
can put it in the bio.
If you don't have it and it'snot ready yet, whenever it's
ready, you send it to me.
Everyone's listening, so then Ican put it in later so people
can find you and the work thatyou do Perfect and send the
(45:19):
links to everything else.
Yeah, sounds great.
All right, cool, thank you somuch Thanks bye-bye, bye.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!