February 6, 2025 • 51 mins
Renowned author, Heart of Herbs Alum, and sustainable homesteader Bevin Cohen captivates us with his dual life at Small House Farm in Michigan. Bevin shares how the serene Michigan winters fuel his prolific writing, leading to the creation of numerous books since 2018, including his debut, "From Our Seeds and their Keepers." We journey through Bevan's world of storytelling, exploring how his family-centered homestead provides a rich tapestry for his narratives and passion for sustainable living.
Join us as we delve into the deep connection between storytelling, herbal education, and family heritage. Bevin introduces his collaborative work with Timber Press, "Herbs and Every Season," a comprehensive guide to integrating herbs into daily life. From medicinal uses to culinary ventures like the unique sunflower cornbread recipe, Bevan's stories inspire us to consider the role of herbs in engaging and educating, all while celebrating the personal joy found in herbalism and cooking.
Discover the flourishing world of seed libraries and native plants as Bevin discusses their role in promoting biodiversity and community engagement. We explore the seeds of change being sown through these libraries, particularly among younger generations eager to embrace sustainable practices. Bevan's upcoming online class, "Herbs in Every Season," promises to equip listeners with the knowledge to cultivate their herb gardens, inspiring us all to unearth the extraordinary potential within our everyday lives.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
There you go.
Hi, this is Demetria Clark, thedirector of Heart of Herbs
Herbal School, and this is theHeart of Herbs Herbal School
podcast.
And today I have theillustrious Bevan Cohen with us
today.
And I say illustrious becausethe output, your output, is
(00:20):
insane.
So I and I'm always, I alwaysfeel like I'm running really
fast to catch up with everyoneelse in the world.
So when I see like, really like, amazing output, it's so
inspiring.
So thank you for inspiring meand thank you for being on with
us today.
So please tell us a little bitabout yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Well, first, Demetria , thank you so much for having
me on the show.
You know I've been called manythings, but I don't know if I've
ever been called illustriousbefore, so thank you for that.
That's really nice.
You're making my day here forsure.
Well, like you mentioned, myname is Bevan Cohen and I'm from
Small House Farm, which is asustainable homestead project in
central Michigan.
(01:02):
So that's me in a nutshell.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
That's awesome and you're so.
This is what I've picked upfrom you over the years that you
do everything, and this is whatI think.
One of the reasons why I'vealways, like, really admired the
work that you did is that youdo it as a family unit.
Am I right?
I mean, this is like a familyaffair.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
You're your wife your children.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Like everybody is involved, and I love that
because that's how Heart ofHerbs was.
I mean Heart of Herbs waswritten with I was nursing one
kid and the other one wasrunning around the house.
I mean it was literally like afamily affair and I always liked
that because I feel like youcan really get that from your
work and from your website.
Can you tell people where theycan find your website?
(01:49):
Before we get too far intoeverything, it's easy Small
house farm.
Oh, you froze up.
Can you say that again?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Oh, of course Smallhousefarmcom.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
All right, so everybody that's
smallhousefarmcom get your owncommercial going.
All right, so you have manybooks out there.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
true, that's why you're so illustrious.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Well, okay, so we're in Michigan and in Michigan in
the wintertime we get a lot ofsnow, and so it really slows
down a lot of other activities.
We're not out in the garden asmuch.
We're not doing maple syrup yet.
It's really a time of, we say,peace and reflection, right, but
it's also very busy because Ispend a lot of the winter
writing.
So over the years, I've gotten,I guess, pretty efficient with
(02:43):
writing.
We published our first book.
It was a self-published book.
That we did in 2018.
And well, it's really just kindof spiraled from there.
I've worked with a number ofpublishers since then and I
think that we have had a bookcome out every year since 2018.
So, whatever that number is,yeah, that's quite a few, it's
quite a bit, but it keeps me outof trouble If I'm not writing.
(03:06):
I got to be out splitting wood,so you know.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, no, I get that.
I get the wood splitting thing.
I'm in Virginia now, but I grewup in the White Mountains.
I know what splitting woodmeans.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
So you're familiar, so anything to stay in the house
writing that's kind of my thinganything to stay in the house
writing.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
That's kind of my thing, yeah, well, I uh I'm
tempting my husband, um, to getme a wood stove cooker for the
barn, because we have a big firedown there and that's where we
hang out in our off time.
So I thought if I could do if Icould do dinner in there too.
I can stay in the uber warmthlonger, so I think I'm getting
it oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
That's that's very cool.
Um, that's that's very cool.
I'm a little jealous of that.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That sounds like fun yeah, so it'll be able to do
both things.
But um, so you have put outlet's see 18, 19, what six books
yeah, I was gonna have you dothe math for me yeah, like I'm
guessing mean it's technicallymaybe more than that.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So in 2023, I did a series of books for Timber Press
and so they were state-by-stateguides.
So we actually did one.
It was for Michigan, indiana,ohio, wisconsin, illinois.
So that year, technically wedid five books, but I just
(04:28):
counted as one cause, you knowyeah, so it's busy.
We were really busy around here.
Um, I don't sit still very well, so in the winter time it's a
really good way for me toharness that, that energy that I
have.
Um, you know, in the summer I'mable to burn it off.
We're out in the garden, Itravel a lot, we do a lot of
things.
It's a very, very busy place,but it's nice to sit down and,
you know, try to collecteverything that's going on in my
(04:49):
mind and and put it on paper.
Or put it on paper Listen tohow old I sound.
So, you know, type it off thescreen.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I understood.
You tell me you're usingpost-it notes.
I'll know, Right, oh, that's sofunny.
I got a label maker and my Igot.
I got to check the phone book Igot like 50 notebooks.
I'm not even kidding you.
So, um so, what has been yourfavorite book to this point as
(05:15):
far as getting your message outthere, or maybe you feel like
the impact on the future?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
That's a really great question, so I'm going to
answer that with a few differentthings.
So I would say that possibly myfavorite book was my first book
.
It's called From Our Seeds andtheir Keepers and it's a
collection of stories that Icollected from seed savers that
I met traveling around.
I go to a lot of seed swaps andthat sort of thing and I was
meeting a lot of older folksthat are preserving these family
(05:43):
varieties of you know,different fruits and vegetables
and things, and I had theseopportunities to sit down and
they would share their storieswith me and we collected them
into this book.
And you know I have a littlesentimental attachment to it, I
guess because it was my firstbook, but it was also just
really fun to work on and tomeet these people and then to
collect those stories.
You know, to preserve thosestories as well, just like the
seed savers preserve the seeds.
(06:04):
We were able to save thosestories, so that was really
special.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
It's like a song catcher.
Yeah, it totally is you?
Know what I mean.
Like that once those I so Ialways try to like this is like
totally, this totally reclaimedright Saturday night live from
the 80s people.
But like, um, I always tell mykids my grandfather's stories
(06:29):
and my mom's stories and, andbecause we're losing them to 30
second sound bites and you, youput these together for the next
generation.
Yeah, that's like like that issomething to be massively proud
of.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I appreciate that.
You know I'd met in thatadventure.
I met an old lady in Kentuckywhose name was Sylvia and we
originally connected over avariety of corn that her family
had grown.
And we spent hours and hours,even on the phone, with Sylvia
talking and she shared so manystories, all these things she
could remember.
At one point we weren't eventalking about the corn anymore.
She was telling me storiesabout.
(07:11):
She remember when she got sickas a little girl and her mom
would go out in the woods andcollect plants to make medicine
and she'd be telling me aboutthat.
I'm just writing and writingeverything that she'd say.
And then one day Sylvia saysyou know, I'm so appreciative,
bevan, that you want my stories,that you want to hear these
stories.
She says nobody else seems tocare about these stories.
My family's heard them.
Nobody wants to hear them.
I don't have anybody else totell these stories to.
(07:31):
And that's really when it hitme.
I thought, well, this issignificant.
So that was really why westarted writing the stories down
.
I said we have to save all ofthis whatever we can.
So that was a really specialone, that book.
Then last year I did a book withOgden that we called the
Heritage Pantry and it was sortof a food preservation guide.
It was a little bit differentthan a lot of stuff that I do.
(07:53):
We write a lot of things aboutgardening, whether it be seeds
and seed saving or herbs andherbalism.
So this one was a little bitdifferent because it's now that
we've collected all this producewhat do do with it type of book
.
But I was able to stick a bunchof stories in there.
If you read any of my books allof my books everything that I
do is all story based.
I love the story teller byheart, right, so I stuck a bunch
(08:13):
of stories in there, like aboutmy grandma and her preserving
tomatoes and all sorts of stuff.
So it was kind of anopportunity for me to document
some of my stories um, which Ithought was really nice to do.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I can't even tell you how attached I am.
I mean, like that you includethis in your work.
I mean I know I'm a totalgoofball.
I have no.
I mean I'm like over here justabout ready to lose it, because
I don't think people realizethat a lot of the education
(08:46):
stops when the stories end.
Yeah, we are literally.
Our whole human existence isbased on storytelling and our
ability to pass information on.
Before we could write, right,oh, absolutely Before we could
do mass communication.
I mean every town, village, youknow, the town, crier, the
(09:09):
person who traveled from here orthere with the stories.
Like, when we lose thesestories, I think we lose what it
means to I don't know I guessthis sounds corny but what it
means to be American, becausewe're both in America.
But those are our roots, thoseare our plant roots, those are
(09:33):
our people roots.
Those are everything, and thefact that you're collecting and
sharing this is just that youhave, and you continue to do so
in your work is one of thereasons why you get the term
illustrious.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Well, you know and I think that's an important thing,
that you're touching on theimportance of storytelling and I
think that you know, evenoutside of America, like any
place all over the world, youknow, storytelling has played
such a role in passing downinformation from one generation
to the next.
But if we wanted to fastforward, even to these modern
times, with these 30 secondsnippets that you'd mentioned,
(10:03):
that sort of thing, you know, tothese modern times, with these
30 second snippets that you'dmentioned, that sort of thing,
you know, um, there's still avalue in storytelling that takes
place today, in this fast pacedworld that we live in.
I mean, even if you think of,like, what they call it content
marketing, right, uh, right,it's, it's even social media.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I'm no good at that.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
No sure, but the social media that tells a story,
that has that engagement, isgoing to do well, you know,
cause there's somethinginherently inside of all of us
that responds to that.
Whether it's long form or shortform storytelling, people
respond to it because they loveto hear that story, because
maybe it's just ingrained in usthat we know that that has value
.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So I think it's also we like to know we're not alone.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
So when you're listening to us, when you're
sharing, you know someone'sstory about a plant or garden or
whatever and say I read it, I'mlike that's my papa.
We all can make theseconnections.
Or, oh, I did that with mybabies.
I wonder if that's becausethey're from the similar area of
(10:59):
the country.
As you know, my grandmother was, and so I think it really helps
to continue these threads.
And then we see that theyounger generations taking these
threads to new technologicalareas right, but I think it's
amazing.
So I love, I love that you putthat in your work.
So I just felt like I wanted toI don't know talk about that
(11:21):
for a little while, because Ijust think it's so cool that
your work includes people youknow, yeah, sure, and I've even
found as a teacher thatstorytelling works.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
It's such an important tool, you know, even
if the story is just to drawpeople in and to get their
interest.
You know now they're payingattention to what I'm saying
that we can have these as ateaching opportunity, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, storytelling is powerful and I'm lucky to be in
situations where I find notonly are folks willing to share
their stories with me, but thenI have the opportunity to share
those stories with an even wideraudience.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
My grandfather would have loved you.
Would have loved you.
Um, he used to record storiesfrom uh people from his town who
lived through the depressionand served in the second world
war.
He would go and interview themso he, I don't know he did he,
(12:22):
so we have copies of all of that, but he was very much the the
the grand storyteller, so hewould.
He would be really enjoyinglooking over all your material
if he was still with us.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
So that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah, so all right, tell us a little bit about herbs
and every season.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yes, so this is coming out soon.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
It's coming out like right away.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I got to get a copy of it.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
You got to.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
You will love it the most.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
So it comes out March 25th.
So if your listeners arelistening before that, we're
doing pre-sales, we're doingpre-orders right now so they can
still get a copy of it ordered,and the pre-orders that we're
doing come with some great giftsas well too.
Um, but at the end of mytelling you what my favorite
book was, I think this is goingto be where I ended anyways,
because oh good, I'm sorry no,no, my gosh, no cool that's.
(13:12):
It's all good, but because Ithink that it's the best work
I've ever done, you know it'syeah, you know well, I've had
all these years now reallyfine-tuning the craft, so so to
speak, but some of my books havedone quite well commercially,
and so what that means is thatthis book is with Timber Press
and Timber Press really allowedme the opportunity to kind of do
(13:35):
whatever I want, and whenyou're working with a larger
publisher sometimes that's notalways the case.
They have specifics that theywant to do.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I couldn't choose my own covers.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Well, right, yeah, I didn't even get a say in it.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
They just said this is what we chose, and I was like
, oh, and that's usually the waythat doesn't look like me at
all it's, it's tough, it's.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
That's a balancing act that I've learned over the
years.
I just sometimes just got tolet go and let somebody else do
stuff.
But with this one, you knowthey they are interested in an
herbal medicine book is whatthey wanted, you know.
And I was like, okay, we coulddo that.
I've kind of already donesomething like that.
A few years ago we wrote theArtisan Herbalist, which is
really Beautiful book.
Oh, thank you, I appreciatethat.
So I told him.
(14:17):
I said you know, I've kind ofalready done that.
So I really want to kind ofexpand on that concept and let's
look at herbs through the lensof the seasons.
Let's follow these plantsthrough the life of an entire
year.
But we can't just talk aboutthem from a medicinal standpoint
.
I also want to talk about theseplants from a culinary
standpoint, In real life.
(14:37):
I do both.
I'm not just a strictlymedicinal herbalist, right?
I mean I'm also using herbs inthe kitchen, not just a strictly
medicinal herbalist, right?
I mean, I'm also using herbs inthe kitchen and most people do
so to truly communicate withsomebody the importance of herbs
as a lifestyle.
We have to talk about it fromboth points of view.
And they were like okay, youcould do that if you want.
And I was like well, thankgoodness, I've already written
like 45,000 words.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Well, that's a good thing we're on the same page,
because let me tell you, it'sdone.
Yeah, it's a good thing we'reon the same page because let me
tell you it's done.
Yeah, it's already done.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I'm turning it in.
It's already done.
Oh, that's awesome.
Yeah, it came out really nice.
So we broke it down seasonally.
We started with spring and Imean, depending on your
philosophy, the seasons couldstart at any point, so you could
really pick this book and justopen it up at any stage.
But we started with spring andworked our way through the
seasons.
So each season features plantsthat predominantly exist for me
in that season or are plantsthat I need in some way during
(15:30):
that season, right.
So we really took the seasonalapproach.
And then we talk about herbs inthe kitchen, we talk about
herbs in the apothecary, but Ialso have to talk about growing
or foraging the herbs, where tofind it, habitats, that sort of
thing.
So it's really the mostinclusive thing that I've ever
been able to write.
It's it's really it's jampacked full of info.
It's pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
It sounds incredible.
So I, I, I, I mean, I'm aclinical herbalist, blah blah,
blah, blah blah.
Anyways but my favorite thing ispreparing food for my family.
I always joke I probably shouldhave been like a chef but like
I love you know stuffing herbsand things people don't think
(16:14):
about and making my own spiceblends and you know my whole I
have a whole section of mykitchen that's just cooking
herbs and people look at me likeI'm crazy and I feel like I may
have found someone I would loveto cook a meal with sometime.
Oh, I would love that.
It's like so much fun in that.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
You were a guest on my podcast sometime last year, I
believe it was, and we did askthe herbalist segment, where
people send in their questionsand have them, you know.
So it was a lot of it wasmedicinal herb questions.
You know what I mean.
So you were the perfect personto have on being a clinical
herbalist and at one point Iasked you what is one of your
favorite ways to work with herbs, and that's what you said was
(16:56):
using it to using herbs to cookfor your family, and I thought
that is the message right there.
You know, even somebody who issteeped in clinical medicinal
knowledge understands theimportance of herbs from the
culinary standpoint and the rolethat that plays.
That's heavy right.
It's so easy for us to getboxed into thinking about things
one way or the other, but inreality, both exist
(17:18):
simultaneously, right.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Oh, you make a tasty meal and the medicine will go
down.
I don't care what you'refeeding your kids.
If you make a tasty meal andthe medicine will go down, I
don't care what you're feedingyour kids, if you make a tasty
meal with it, they're going toget there.
And so many times my kids weregetting medicine and no idea
Like it's like.
Let me make you a tea thattastes like dirty sock.
All right, we're having dirtysock for dinner and you'll never
(17:41):
know.
You know it just makes life somuch easier when you understand
that.
So I'm really excited.
I'm really excited to see yourconnections to the seasons,
because I think we're going tolearn a lot about you.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, you know, you may be telling us more than you
want.
You're like well, you know, andI don't mind having that, you
know, chance for people to kindof look into my personal world a
little bit.
I think that's important.
When we were working on thebook, you know, I really wanted
to make it accessible to as manypeople as possible.
But not everybody is going toexperience the seasons the same
way that I do, right, someplaces.
(18:15):
Well, my sister-in-law lives inSan Diego.
She doesn't even have a season,you know what I mean.
So we had to think about it,seasons from many perspectives,
like there's the seasons that Iexperience, you know they're
very distinct and different, butthere's also the seasons of a
day or the seasons of our lives,and and I really wanted to kind
of lean into those concepts aswell, because I think that as
(18:38):
herbalists, as medicine makers,it's important for us to see
those relationships that we havewith the outside world and how
it connects to the relationshipswe have with our inside world
as well.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Oh, I love that.
I have been personally workingon getting more aligned with my
day, so I would always get up atlike four o'clock in the
morning, start working rightaway and, like you know, do a 12
hour day.
And then and I was like this isinsane- yeah, that's a lot.
And I was like, what about thethings I really want?
(19:13):
What gives me minutes of gracethat last all day?
And I'm like sunrise does,sunset does, getting sunshine on
my skin, does you know?
And experiencing the season ofthe day.
So I just love how you you putthat, because I think that we
get so, even like herbalists,get so connected to this box
(19:37):
here and then we have to workand we have to produce and we
have to implement.
We're competing against amillion different things out
there and you're like whoa, slowdown, speed Racer.
Like what's going on here?
How can I look at thisdifferently?
And I love you should make acompanion workbook.
Oh, for people to like what?
(19:58):
What was my seasonal day?
You know like you could dosomething really fun with it.
Or today's the day you makelike a really sexy mexican hot
chocolate with all the beansfrom here.
Or you could do like a you know, a golden milk or a soup.
Or you could like do all kindsof fun stuff for people.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Now that I gave you another project.
Yeah, yeah, I'll put that intomy spare time.
We'll work that in.
No, that's a really cool idea,you know, and I think that
helping people find reasons toexperience that you know what I
mean.
So there's a lot of recipes inthe book to try to help people
that tactile sit down and let'sget in the kitchen and let's
make something.
You know, because I to try tohelp people that tactile sit
down and let's get in thekitchen and let's make something
.
You know, um, cause I thinkthat is important to experience.
(20:36):
It's interesting what you'resaying about.
You know, even as herbalists,that sometimes we find ourselves
, um, you know, stuck on thiscomputer and we're not trying to
, we don't have the opportunityto maybe get outside or we don't
prioritize it Like maybe weshould.
And I find that, beingself-employed, it's even more
difficult.
You know what I mean, becausethere's nothing to stop me from
working 24 hours a day.
Like you work in a punch in,punch out job.
(20:57):
You're punched in or punchedout, but when you're an
entrepreneur, it's like youcould accidentally slip into
working all day and night.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I've had times where I have We've got to redo an
update, we have securityprotocols, we have this.
We're redoing 3500 pages ofcontent, like you know.
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I would literally have gone to a hotel and worked
24 7 for like four or five days,just because I don't know you
have well, I mean, sometimes yougotta everyone's coming up and
you're like you gotta got to getthis done, and so I mean that's
part of it.
But the routine, if thatbecomes the routine, that's not
(21:38):
healthy.
No, no, you're so right sofinding those barriers is very
important to provide that.
Allow yourself to have thatspace and think about your day
as the seasons, you know, noteverything is the super
productive summer, you know.
We're going to have the winddown of the fall, we're going to
have the peace of the winterand we have to incorporate that
into our day-to-day life and Ithink, I think that that's
(21:59):
really important.
So, for me, working on the bookwas a big wake-up call, because
I am one of those let's work 24hours a day.
Let's just you know, it happens, it happens, I, you know.
So it was good for me, it wasreally good for me to write that
down and be like, oh, if I'mgoing to put this in a book, I
got to live it, we got to bedoing it.
Um, so it was really nice, itwas really nice.
(22:20):
So I'm I'm excited to share thebook with everybody.
I'm excited to get it out thereand I hope that everybody
enjoys it as much as I enjoyedmaking it.
Um, because it's really like Isaid, I think it's some of the
best work that I've done.
It's really brought together alot of the messaging here at
Small House Farm and presentedit in a way that I haven't been
able to do before.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
That's so awesome.
So what do you think will bethe favorite recipe?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Say that again.
You broke up, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
What do you think will be everyone's favorite
recipe?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Or what's one you think we should buy the book to
make immediately.
What do you think will justblow people's socks off?
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Well, one that was really popular.
We had a photographer come.
She came out and spent fourdays here shooting a bunch of
stuff around the gardens, andthen we did a bunch of the
recipes and one that really gother.
We did a super sunflowercornbread where I replaced a
bunch of the cornmeal withactually ground sunflower seeds
and it's got sunflower oil in it, and then we decorated the top
(23:26):
of it with sunflower petals.
When we made it it came out sobeautiful and it was so
delicious.
And she's you know, she wasfrom Chicago.
She's like I don't even eatcornbread, she's like, but I
would eat this every single day,and so that one was a hit.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
We really did a lot of different stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, it was really fun to make.
We did so many different things.
Each herb there's what 40 herbsin the book or something like
that and each herb's gotmultiple recipes.
So there's what 40 herbs in thebook or something like that,
and each herb's got multiplerecipes.
So there's a lot.
So it would be hard for me topick a favorite one.
But the sunflower was a fun one, the sunflower cornbread Really
I loved decorating it with thesunflower petals.
(24:02):
That's really why I'm pickingthat one, because it was like a
little work of art, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I think that's probably the perfect reason.
There is somebody on Instagramwho decorates breads and cakes
with flowers, and every time Isee it I'm like I want to do
that.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
So I can understand why you like that.
I actually seen somebody haddone a focaccia bread and it was
very beautiful and that was myinspiration.
I was like I'm going to try todo this and mine did not turn
out that beautiful, you know,not as beautiful as this
Instagram photo, but it wasstill nice.
And you know, and that's thecool kind of cool thing about it
is everybody that's going tomake that is going to do it
differently and they're going toexpress themselves differently
(24:42):
and they're going to make itthemselves.
It's going to represent thempersonally and I think that's an
important thing when we learnabout herbs, to understand how
personal it is.
You know, whether it's in thekitchen or it's in the
apothecary, everything's veryunique to where you are, who you
are, whatever ailment you'retrying to cure.
You know all of these thingsare very specific and that's
(25:05):
sort of the beauty of it.
You know that it really givesus these opportunities to be, to
celebrate our uniqueness tocelebrate our uniqueness, right?
Speaker 1 (25:20):
yeah, absolutely I.
I am not a fan of herbalism orcooking or anything that it's
like.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
This is the only way it's done, you know I'm like no,
I will intentionally do itdifferently, just because they
say that, um for sure no andthat.
so we try to do that with thoserecipes too.
All of them are like I kind oflike doing it like this, but
maybe you could try doingsomething different, because,
well, why not and that's part ofthe fun of it, you know, like,
especially in the kitchen, theexperimentation that you can do
(25:45):
to try different things and tonot be afraid to fail, that's,
that's the beauty of the wholething.
So we really try to lean intothat and help people just find
joy in herbs, right?
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, I love that.
So is there anything else youwant to tell us about this book
and why we have to run and getit from your website pre-order?
Because that helps the authors,people, right, it's huge, it's
tremendous.
It helps the authors and, look,I know we all have had plenty
(26:18):
of those boxes on our frontporch from all kinds of places
no names, I don't want to betaken out, but you know we've
all but there is somethingreally important about
purchasing from the author itreally does a lot for them.
(26:40):
So can you, can you tell us whywe need to get this from you
immediately?
Well, I'm going to order itwhen we get off the phone.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Oh, you're awesome.
You're awesome.
Well, so if you get the bookfrom us, if you pre-order the
book through us, not only do youget the book right away and you
get it autographed by me andsome people like that, right
Cool.
But I'm also going to send youother things with it.
I'm going to send you fivepackets of seeds from our garden
.
We have a little mini seedbusiness here at Small House
Farm, so I'm going to send youfive packets of seeds right from
(27:09):
our farm likely herbs andflowers, but who knows what kind
of gems we're going to comeacross that we're going to send.
So that's going to be asurprise.
And then you also get asix-month paid membership to our
Patreon community automatically.
As soon as you buy the bookonline, you get the email
triggered, sent right to you tosign up for the Patreon.
So it's six months for free,and that includes a ton of perks
(27:31):
and benefits.
So as a patreon member, you get.
You get exclusive content, youget bonus episodes of the
podcast, you get all sorts ofdifferent things and some tiers.
You get herbal, seasonal herbalgift boxes sent right to your
door, um, so more boxes on theporch, right?
So you would get.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
They're from you, they're from me and it's it's,
they're handcrafted.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
So you will.
Every season, you will get abox of seasonal herbal products,
whether it's teas and tincturesand and salves and um sauces
and lotions and seasoning blendsand all sorts of different
stuff.
It's it's always different andit is one of the most fun things
.
I love getting to do it becauseyou know a small house.
We sell a lot of herbalproducts on our website.
(28:12):
We have a whole store there.
So those products we've beenoffering those things for some
of them for years and years andI got to make them in bulk and
I'm making tons of them all thetime and that's the way that it
is.
But these ones you don't.
These are not available on thewebsite.
These are unique products thatonly come in these packages.
So it allows us thisopportunity to kind of
experiment on a smaller scaleand make different things and
(28:34):
play with the seasons and have alot of fun.
So it's been making thingsreally fun to be making these
different products again.
It's been really nice.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
What a cool gift.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
It is pretty cool, they're pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
That would be like a good bridesmaids gift.
Like you sign all yourbridesmaids up for the thing and
they get it for like a year.
Or you know you have a teenagerthat's into this kind of stuff,
or you're like your aunt, or it.
Just all I'm thinking is likewhat a cool.
I would have loved if I when Iwas younger and I didn't know
how to do all this stuff, but Iwas into it if someone had
(29:06):
signed me up for something likethat.
I just would have thought itwas amazing.
But what a cool thing to toshare with the community overall
.
Like that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah, it's been really fun and they've been
quite popular so we like doingit.
So the Patreon membership,that's another perk we're just
giving folks.
If they pre-order the book.
We just sign you right up to theprogram for free for six months
so they can kind of you knowexperience it and see if it's
for them and that sort of thing,and then obviously, obviously,
(29:40):
you get the book, which is thebiggest deal of it.
All right, so we do encouragethe pre-orders and, you know,
ordering from an author isalways the best thing that you
can do, as opposed to thenameless giant online store that
sells things to people, um,because when you order directly,
um, everybody benefits morethat way.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Let's put it like that.
Oh Well, I found out at somepoint with one of my publishers.
I was like, hey, my book'sbeing sold at this place and we
don't actually sell it in thiscountry.
And they were like, well, sucksto suck, they don't respect
copyright law.
And I was like, oh okay, solike when you order from the
(30:15):
author, it's not a counterfeitproduct, it's not.
You know, um, you know, it'snot the same with the herbal
products when you're gettingthem from the person, they're
actually coming from the person.
And I know that sounds silly tosay it like that, but I wasn't
aware until maybe five or sixyears ago I ordered some it was
(30:40):
like a lipstick thing for one ofmy son's friends.
I was like, oh, I'll get it forher for her birthday, that's
what she wanted.
And she was like I'm reallysorry to tell you this, this
counterfeit.
And I was like what?
And it was like it'm reallysorry to tell you this, this
counterfeit.
And I was like what?
And it was like it was like abig brand, it was like total
counterfeit cosmetic.
And ever since then it kind oflike opened my eyes to like
(31:04):
anything I put in my body.
I really want to know who theprovider is, and I know that
sounds paranoid, but I don'tknow.
I got nothing better to do.
I'm getting old, you know.
I just cause I didn't.
I didn't know anything aboutbuying makeup.
So if I don't know somethingabout, if I don't know about
herbs, then I'm going to orderfrom an herbalist.
If I don't know about, you know, cutting boards, I'm going to
(31:27):
order a cutting board from theperson that makes them, because
I I always kind of link that toone.
It's great and it's really asustainable way to live, but
also it just I don't know safety, you know.
So I mean I know it kind of.
I kind of went off on the railshere, so I apologize, but it's
like you get the book from theauthor.
You know exactly who you'regetting it from and who your
money is directly supporting.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
And absolutely that's what I'm trying to get around
and, like you said, it's likethat with everything it's going
to the farmer's market asopposed to the grocery store.
The closer you can get to thesource with anything, the better
it's going to be for everybody.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So.
Tell us about your seed library.
You had to have known I wasgoing to bring this up.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, for sure.
So seed library.
So there, for sure, so seedlibrary.
So there's there's multitude ofanswers here, so it's a
multi-faceted situation with theseed library.
So here, a small house farm, westore and preserve a lot of
seeds, all sorts of varieties.
On the other side of this wall,behind me, is freezer chests
full of seeds, all right, sosort of a seed bank type of
(32:29):
thing.
And then what we are able toevery year, depending on space
and pollination, isolation wewon't dig into that, but it's
what we're able to grow here wegrow out every year and then to
multiply that seed, and then weoffer it through our website to
folks through our little seedstore, if people want to
purchase these unusual andunique varieties, so then they
can grow it in their gardens,and then that the whole seed
(32:53):
preservation program that wehave, and that's fun for us, but
we had to make it fun for thewhole community as well.
So what we've gotten involvedin in 2017, I founded an
organization called the MichiganSeed Library Network and
essentially we've developed anetwork of seed libraries all
throughout the state.
(33:13):
And what a seed library is?
Well, it's just like a typicallibrary, really.
You can think of it like that,where people will come to check
out books At a seed library.
You come to check out seeds,you take the seeds home, you
grow them in your garden, youenjoy it and then, in theory, in
the fall just like you wouldreturn your book you return
fresh seeds to the seed libraryto restock it.
So other members of yourcommunity have access to locally
(33:34):
grown, high quality seeds andit's really taken off.
As of now, there are 145 seedlibraries in the state of
Michigan, yeah, right.
And to put that in perspective,there's maybe 700 nationwide
and 145 of them are here inMichigan, right?
So I mean, it's a lot oflegwork.
(33:55):
There's a lot of peopleinvolved.
It's not just me.
I helped found the organization.
There's a number of volunteersthat help all the seed
librarians doing all the work.
It's grown.
It's quite a serious situation,but it's not just isolated to
Michigan.
You know there's seed librariesall over the place.
So wherever your listeners aretuning in, you know they can
probably find a seed library notfar from them, and I would
(34:19):
recommend the Community SeedNetwork.
The Community Seed Network hasa website that you can go on.
It's got an interactive map andyou can find seed libraries or
seed stewards near you as well.
So you can find that, and wekind of replicated that idea
with the Michigan Seed LibraryNetwork.
We have a map of Michigan whereeverybody could find all the
seed libraries that we have here, and you know it's originally I
was pushing a lot of likevegetables, garden crops you
(34:41):
know what I mean Tomatoes andmelons and whatever might be for
people to eat.
But as it kind of shapes itself,the more that it's out there
with the public, it's reallybecome a lot of native plants,
there's a lot of herbs.
That sort of thing has reallybecome some of the mainstays of
a lot of these seed libraries.
So it is a great way to getaccess to seeds for native
plants for your region, herbsthat you might want to grow in
(35:03):
your gardens.
It's really, really cool to seethat sort of thing happening.
So even here at Small House,our seed collection, our online
store, has really come into alot of herbs lately.
We are selling a lot more herbsthan we used to.
When we first started it was alot of beans and tomatoes, and I
still do a lot of beans andtomatoes, but the page that we
(35:25):
sell herb seeds has grownsignificantly, yeah, so we've
got lots of cool herbs thatwe're offering seeds for.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
That's awesome.
It's nothing better thanhomegrown tomatoes.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Homegrown tomatoes.
Oh, you got it.
They are the best, and sothat's kind of a thing, too,
when we're finding the varietiesthat we want to grow.
We're going to grow some thingsbecause they're historically
significant.
We're going to grow some things, maybe, because they're
sentimental, they're familyheirlooms.
We're going to grow some thingsbecause they're just gosh darn
delicious.
I'm going to grow some herbsbecause they're bringing in
pollinators or because I'm goingto use them in the apothecary,
(35:56):
or because I can't get enough ofthem in the kitchen.
There's so many great reasons togrow as much as you can, you
know, with the space that youhave.
So it's cool to be able tooffer these seeds, because then
the customers they'll alwaysemail me and tell me how their
stuff's doing or whatever, andit's fun to see all the
different.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
It's like you got little babies all over the place
right.
You got little herb grandbabies.
Well, I always think it's funnywhen people who like very, when
I'm talking to people of like avery traditional lawn setup and
then they'll say something likewell, I heard, this was a native
plant, I was thinking ofgetting it and I always want to
(36:34):
be like you're in trouble, nowI'm going to take this and
replace it with, you know, apollinator.
I'm like, oops, all right,you're going to have a
completely different yard nextyear.
And it's great because peopledo, or or they say, well, I'm
not buying my plants fromwhatever huge store anymore, I'm
getting them from this personor I'm getting from this place
(36:54):
because of you know they havemore what I'm interested in.
And I love that, because whenyou purchase a plant or a seed
from someone who's reallyinvolved with the history of it,
it just I kind of feel like youget to bring those memories to
your land too.
You bring that, that feeling ofyes, this has been cared for
(37:15):
and intended, and you know it'salmost like I don't know.
You get to continue a legacy ofpreservation and conservation
and eating really good maters.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Absolutely.
I always tell people theybecome a part of the story.
Now too, they're like the nextchapter in the story.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yeah, for sure.
Do you find that a lot of thepeople interested in seed saving
and growing native plants andtheir demographic is changing to
a more younger population?
I feel like the amount ofinformation my sons in their 20s
(37:57):
have about native plants andlike, just like all of this
stuff and not just becausethey're my kids, right, like
they would probably technicallyhave an advantage, but like even
their friends it's like a wholedifferent.
Oh yeah, this is their heritage.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Okra or whatever.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
You know, and I'm like looking at this like 20
something year old firefighter,like okay, cool, like I just
feel like it's something thatyounger people are talking about
, more or more interested in,and I don't know, maybe that's
just me, but do you find thatwith your sales and the people
that are coming to you know yourworkshops and classes?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Oh yeah, I would agree with that.
I would say that, justgenerally, interest in this sort
of thing has grown with everyage group.
You know what I mean A lot offolks are really getting
interested in gardening orgrowing their own, or the
benefits of herbs, but certainlymore younger people now than I
would have said 10 years ago.
For sure, and maybe a lot ofthat does have to do with the
social media.
(38:56):
You know years ago, for sure,and maybe a lot of that does
have to do with the social media.
You know their ability to haveaccess to very quickly all sorts
of snippets of information andthen with the algorithms you
look at one plant picture andboy now you're just going to get
a bunch of plant pictures,right?
Speaker 1 (39:09):
I should have never looked up a chainsaw.
Let me just tell you that.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
You got to stick with plant pictures.
That's the key.
But, you know, and I think thatyou're right, though, there's
something going on that haspiqued people's interests in the
natural world in a way thatseems very new and it's very
exciting, and people are reallycoming into that in a really
interesting way.
Um, so it's very exciting tosee, you know, I'm not gonna say
(39:35):
the, the big p word, but um, in2020, there's this thing that
happened and oh, oh, oh, my gosh, this is how slow I am.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
I'm like it's, I'm like what is he?
All right.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I'm gonna say it for clarity I get you now.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
I'm the only slow, everyone else is already caught
on.
Who will be listening?
Speaker 2 (39:59):
I hope so, oh goodness, no, no.
So in 2020.
And that moment, the silverlining of that, if we wanted to
see it, was, all of a sudden,people, like eyes, opened up to
things in a very different way,things in a very different way.
And then I think it's just beenreally really cool to see
(40:19):
people wanting to get back tothe land or get back to, you
know, learning more about herbsor trying to grow their own food
or whatever it might be.
It's really cool.
And I was so worried that youknow we'd have this big spike
when it happened and everybodyhad a panic.
You know that it would kind ofpeter out, it would be over with
, but it really seems to haveheld on with a lot of folks that
that continued interest.
You know, maybe not everybody'sdoing sourdough bread like they
(40:41):
were, but a lot of folks arestill out there gardening and
doing things and learning aboutplants, and it's so cool to see
that because well, as herbalists, you know that's like our dream
come true.
right To see other people goingout there and doing that as
teachers wanting to get peopleturned on to the land, seeing it
happening in real time.
That's pretty much the coolestthing.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Oh yeah, I've got to agree with you on that.
I feel like, yeah, we may notall be out in our gardens as
much as we were a few years agoor baking the sourdough bread,
but I think from thoseexperiences, people are like I
care who grows my vegetables, Icare where they come from, I
care who's baking my bread formy family in a different way.
(41:25):
So I think, even if they're notdoing themselves, they are
definitely supportingprofessions that are now
offering those.
But I think farmers markets arejust getting.
I mean, I live in the in themiddle of nowhere and there's
probably four or five within ahalf hour and you know, I just
(41:46):
I'm not sure if they were allthere years ago cause we were
transplants, but, um, I justfeel like this, this interest
has not waned.
People are natural soap andthey're just kind of continuing,
maybe not doing the skillthemselves anymore, but they're
definitely willing to pay forthat.
They value it now.
I really think yeah, I agree.
(42:08):
So you mentioned classes.
Tell us about the classes thatyou offer.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Oh yes, so a lot of the educational programming that
we do is in person.
Right, I do a lot in the springand in the fall I travel all
over the place.
Like that's no exaggeration.
I mean I've traveled from LA toPrince Edward Island you know
what I mean At all points inbetween.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
I love Prince Edward Island.
I can't believe you just saidthat.
Have you ever had theirpotatoes?
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I did not have their potatoes?
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Oh my gosh, they're the seriously the best potatoes
in the whole world.
What, yes, if you go thereagain, when you go there again,
you have to go.
And then my family used to haveproperty there.
Really, yeah, um, there was.
My mother found these twolittle cabins and our cottages,
I should say a long time ago,but anyways, it is definitely
(43:04):
like I'm Prince Edward Islandgirl before the bridge.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Oh, okay, well, that's cool, I was only there.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
the one time for a conference.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
But the point being, I travel a lot to teach, so I do
a lot of that, but noteverybody obviously can make it
to these in-person things.
So we did start a YouTubechannel a while ago so we were
able to put some someeducational programming on
through there.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
How do we find the channel?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Oh, small house farm All right, small house farm,
that's so.
It's a simple way to find allof our stuff.
But one thing that we justrecently did, um that I was so
excited about is we connectedwith an organization called the
School of Traditional Skills,and it's an online school and
they offer classes for you thinkabout it homesteading, they got
it from, you know, raisingchickens to butchering cattle,
(43:48):
to all you name it.
They got it right, and so theygot ahold of me to do an herb
gardening program for theirschool.
So last July, so last summer,they brought this film crew out
and they were here for many daysand we shot what turned into 17
videos, everything about herbgardening, and I'm talking like
from like you know where you'regoing to source your seeds, to
(44:10):
planting out your garden, towhere your sun is, to soil,
testing every step of it, allthe way through harvesting,
drying and processing herbs, thewhole gambit.
And it's a beautiful class thatthey put together with all.
I mean, they followed me aroundfor days with the camera and in
the gardens and I toldeverything I know about growing
these plants, and it's turnedout to be beautiful and that's
(44:31):
coming out.
Um, basically, as we'rerecording this.
It's coming out, um.
So if they visit the smallhouse farm website,
smallhousefarmcom, you'll see alink to that.
It says like online classes orsomething, and it'll take you
straight through to the schoolso you can check out my class as
well as all the other offeringsthrough the school.
It's a really cool organizationand I was really lucky to
connect with them.
(44:51):
Um, it was just kind of youknow, like-minded people
sometimes bump into other.
We just kind of found ourselvesin the same place at the same
time and a conversation came upand they said we want you to do
this class and it was cool toreally be able to lean into
teaching everything I know aboutgrowing herbs.
You know, because we've beengrowing herbs here for a couple
decades now and out of all thebooks I've written, I haven't
(45:13):
really written a bookspecifically all about
everything I know about growingherbs.
So it was cool to be able toput that into a place for folks
so that they could, you know,learn from all of my experiences
and not make all the mistakes Imade and have the herb garden
of their dreams.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Oh, that's awesome.
Oh, I love that so much.
You've you've incorporated, youknow, homesteading, which is
really popular right now, butalso just growing herbs and
practical practicality.
And you know, I just I thinkwe're in an age where we're
(45:47):
really lucky, we can, if we look, we can find the voices that we
need to hear.
You know, we can turn off theones that we don't need to hear.
If we want to, we can find, wecan.
You can find pretty much aclass for anything.
I'm a total class like nut,Like I'm gonna I'm gonna be
(46:10):
taking a hopefully fingerscrossed a large equipment
operating class so I can learnhow to use, like a skid steer
and all this kind of stuff.
Oh cool.
You never know right, you neverknow when it's going to come up,
but like I love doing stufflike that, like I love, like
always, and I think if peoplelook they can find it.
So look, bevan is teachingthese things.
(46:30):
He is out here, he's giving youthe information, he's got books
, he has a website.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
He has his own seed library.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
People Check it out.
I just love that so much and Ilove that you've taken the time
today to connect with us and toshare your story and to share
about your herb gardening withBevan, which is coming out very
soon.
So thank you so much.
Did I say the name of the book,right?
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Herbs in.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Every Season.
Sorry, the class is HerbGardening.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
It's a lot of the same words over and over again,
but yes, you got it.
It's Herbs in Every Season andit comes out March 25th, but if
they hear this before that, theycan always pre-order on my
website.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Yeah, we're putting it up before then because I'm
like, nope, let's get peoplesome freebies if they want.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Oh, yeah, for sure they would love it, especially
yeah, listeners, you know foryour podcast students from the
school.
I think that they would reallybenefit from it.
Some of our patrons, some ofour members, you know, because
you can really get to know thempersonally because it's really
cool and some of them are likeolder, experienced herbalists
and they say, oh, we love theseboxes because you're sending us
stuff that I never made it likethat before, or I never even
(47:38):
thought of working with thisherb, and so they're learning
new ideas and techniques andthey're getting inspired and
they're old herbies, you know.
So I think it's reallysomething that's just it's cool
for everybody.
But selfishly, I love it themost because it gives me the
chance to just really get outthere and experiment with the
plants in a way that I hadn'tbeen able to do in a few years.
So every time somebody supportsit, they're supporting my
(47:59):
ability to play in the gardenand I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
That's awesome.
That's so awesome.
I, I, um, I love when I go tolike a health fair or a products
expo or whatever and I seethings I've never seen before.
I just I'm always like oh,that's so awesome, like, or I
(48:24):
don't have to make it, someoneelse can make it, and they make
it better than me.
I want to buy this and not haveto worry about it, Right.
Like there's some things you'relike no one will ever make it
better than me, Right?
And then there's other thingsthat you're like everyone's
going to make it and that's agood thing to own and to be like
I'm going to support a businessthat's going to do do it for me
(48:46):
and really get to learnsomething in the process.
So, thank you so much.
Thank you for being on.
We've taken up almost an hourof your time, so I do really
appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
Oh, Demetria, thank you so much for having me on the
show.
This was super fun.
It was an honor for me to beable to sit down and chat with
you.
This was very, very cool for me.
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Oh well, thank you so much and please keep us updated
on any other things that comeout so we can have you back or
any other big projects you'redoing, because, um, what I want
to try to do with this podcastseries is, I want to highlight
how herbalism is different foreveryone and how we all have a
(49:30):
place in herbalism, and it's notalways you know what we think
it is.
It's often people just like us,like you know, like you know
what we think it is.
It's often people just like us,like you know, like you know,
like people who are just people,who are doing their mission and
have incredible, illustriousgifts.
I really appreciate it.
You have a wonderful day.
(49:50):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Thanks again.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Thanks, bye, bye.
There you go.
Hi, this is Demetria Clark, thedirector of Heart of Herbs
Herbal School, and this is theHeart of Herbs Herbal School
podcast.
And today I have theillustrious Bevan Cohen with us
today.
And I say illustrious becausethe output, your output, is
(00:20):
insane.
So I and I'm always, I alwaysfeel like I'm running really
fast to catch up with everyoneelse in the world.
So when I see like, really like, amazing output, it's so
inspiring.
So thank you for inspiring meand thank you for being on with
us today.
So please tell us a little bitabout yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Well, first, Demetria , thank you so much for having
me on the show.
You know I've been called manythings, but I don't know if I've
ever been called illustriousbefore, so thank you for that.
That's really nice.
You're making my day here forsure.
Well, like you mentioned, myname is Bevan Cohen and I'm from
Small House Farm, which is asustainable homestead project in
central Michigan.
(01:02):
So that's me in a nutshell.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
That's awesome and you're so.
This is what I've picked upfrom you over the years that you
do everything, and this is whatI think.
One of the reasons why I'vealways, like, really admired the
work that you did is that youdo it as a family unit.
Am I right?
I mean, this is like a familyaffair.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
You're your wife your children.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Like everybody is involved, and I love that
because that's how Heart ofHerbs was.
I mean Heart of Herbs waswritten with I was nursing one
kid and the other one wasrunning around the house.
I mean it was literally like afamily affair and I always liked
that because I feel like youcan really get that from your
work and from your website.
Can you tell people where theycan find your website?
(01:49):
Before we get too far intoeverything, it's easy Small
house farm.
Oh, you froze up.
Can you say that again?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Oh, of course Smallhousefarmcom.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
All right, so everybody that's
smallhousefarmcom get your owncommercial going.
All right, so you have manybooks out there.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
true, that's why you're so illustrious.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Well, okay, so we're in Michigan and in Michigan in
the wintertime we get a lot ofsnow, and so it really slows
down a lot of other activities.
We're not out in the garden asmuch.
We're not doing maple syrup yet.
It's really a time of, we say,peace and reflection, right, but
it's also very busy because Ispend a lot of the winter
writing.
So over the years, I've gotten,I guess, pretty efficient with
(02:43):
writing.
We published our first book.
It was a self-published book.
That we did in 2018.
And well, it's really just kindof spiraled from there.
I've worked with a number ofpublishers since then and I
think that we have had a bookcome out every year since 2018.
So, whatever that number is,yeah, that's quite a few, it's
quite a bit, but it keeps me outof trouble If I'm not writing.
(03:06):
I got to be out splitting wood,so you know.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, no, I get that.
I get the wood splitting thing.
I'm in Virginia now, but I grewup in the White Mountains.
I know what splitting woodmeans.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
So you're familiar, so anything to stay in the house
writing that's kind of my thinganything to stay in the house
writing.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
That's kind of my thing, yeah, well, I uh I'm
tempting my husband, um, to getme a wood stove cooker for the
barn, because we have a big firedown there and that's where we
hang out in our off time.
So I thought if I could do if Icould do dinner in there too.
I can stay in the uber warmthlonger, so I think I'm getting
it oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
That's that's very cool.
Um, that's that's very cool.
I'm a little jealous of that.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That sounds like fun yeah, so it'll be able to do
both things.
But um, so you have put outlet's see 18, 19, what six books
yeah, I was gonna have you dothe math for me yeah, like I'm
guessing mean it's technicallymaybe more than that.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So in 2023, I did a series of books for Timber Press
and so they were state-by-stateguides.
So we actually did one.
It was for Michigan, indiana,ohio, wisconsin, illinois.
So that year, technically wedid five books, but I just
(04:28):
counted as one cause, you knowyeah, so it's busy.
We were really busy around here.
Um, I don't sit still very well, so in the winter time it's a
really good way for me toharness that, that energy that I
have.
Um, you know, in the summer I'mable to burn it off.
We're out in the garden, Itravel a lot, we do a lot of
things.
It's a very, very busy place,but it's nice to sit down and,
you know, try to collecteverything that's going on in my
(04:49):
mind and and put it on paper.
Or put it on paper Listen tohow old I sound.
So, you know, type it off thescreen.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I understood.
You tell me you're usingpost-it notes.
I'll know, Right, oh, that's sofunny.
I got a label maker and my Igot.
I got to check the phone book Igot like 50 notebooks.
I'm not even kidding you.
So, um so, what has been yourfavorite book to this point as
(05:15):
far as getting your message outthere, or maybe you feel like
the impact on the future?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
That's a really great question, so I'm going to
answer that with a few differentthings.
So I would say that possibly myfavorite book was my first book
.
It's called From Our Seeds andtheir Keepers and it's a
collection of stories that Icollected from seed savers that
I met traveling around.
I go to a lot of seed swaps andthat sort of thing and I was
meeting a lot of older folksthat are preserving these family
(05:43):
varieties of you know,different fruits and vegetables
and things, and I had theseopportunities to sit down and
they would share their storieswith me and we collected them
into this book.
And you know I have a littlesentimental attachment to it, I
guess because it was my firstbook, but it was also just
really fun to work on and tomeet these people and then to
collect those stories.
You know, to preserve thosestories as well, just like the
seed savers preserve the seeds.
(06:04):
We were able to save thosestories, so that was really
special.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
It's like a song catcher.
Yeah, it totally is you?
Know what I mean.
Like that once those I so Ialways try to like this is like
totally, this totally reclaimedright Saturday night live from
the 80s people.
But like, um, I always tell mykids my grandfather's stories
(06:29):
and my mom's stories and, andbecause we're losing them to 30
second sound bites and you, youput these together for the next
generation.
Yeah, that's like like that issomething to be massively proud
of.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I appreciate that.
You know I'd met in thatadventure.
I met an old lady in Kentuckywhose name was Sylvia and we
originally connected over avariety of corn that her family
had grown.
And we spent hours and hours,even on the phone, with Sylvia
talking and she shared so manystories, all these things she
could remember.
At one point we weren't eventalking about the corn anymore.
She was telling me storiesabout.
(07:11):
She remember when she got sickas a little girl and her mom
would go out in the woods andcollect plants to make medicine
and she'd be telling me aboutthat.
I'm just writing and writingeverything that she'd say.
And then one day Sylvia saysyou know, I'm so appreciative,
bevan, that you want my stories,that you want to hear these
stories.
She says nobody else seems tocare about these stories.
My family's heard them.
Nobody wants to hear them.
I don't have anybody else totell these stories to.
(07:31):
And that's really when it hitme.
I thought, well, this issignificant.
So that was really why westarted writing the stories down
.
I said we have to save all ofthis whatever we can.
So that was a really specialone, that book.
Then last year I did a book withOgden that we called the
Heritage Pantry and it was sortof a food preservation guide.
It was a little bit differentthan a lot of stuff that I do.
(07:53):
We write a lot of things aboutgardening, whether it be seeds
and seed saving or herbs andherbalism.
So this one was a little bitdifferent because it's now that
we've collected all this producewhat do do with it type of book
.
But I was able to stick a bunchof stories in there.
If you read any of my books allof my books everything that I
do is all story based.
I love the story teller byheart, right, so I stuck a bunch
(08:13):
of stories in there, like aboutmy grandma and her preserving
tomatoes and all sorts of stuff.
So it was kind of anopportunity for me to document
some of my stories um, which Ithought was really nice to do.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I can't even tell you how attached I am.
I mean, like that you includethis in your work.
I mean I know I'm a totalgoofball.
I have no.
I mean I'm like over here justabout ready to lose it, because
I don't think people realizethat a lot of the education
(08:46):
stops when the stories end.
Yeah, we are literally.
Our whole human existence isbased on storytelling and our
ability to pass information on.
Before we could write, right,oh, absolutely Before we could
do mass communication.
I mean every town, village, youknow, the town, crier, the
(09:09):
person who traveled from here orthere with the stories.
Like, when we lose thesestories, I think we lose what it
means to I don't know I guessthis sounds corny but what it
means to be American, becausewe're both in America.
But those are our roots, thoseare our plant roots, those are
(09:33):
our people roots.
Those are everything, and thefact that you're collecting and
sharing this is just that youhave, and you continue to do so
in your work is one of thereasons why you get the term
illustrious.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Well, you know and I think that's an important thing,
that you're touching on theimportance of storytelling and I
think that you know, evenoutside of America, like any
place all over the world, youknow, storytelling has played
such a role in passing downinformation from one generation
to the next.
But if we wanted to fastforward, even to these modern
times, with these 30 secondsnippets that you'd mentioned,
(10:03):
that sort of thing, you know, tothese modern times, with these
30 second snippets that you'dmentioned, that sort of thing,
you know, um, there's still avalue in storytelling that takes
place today, in this fast pacedworld that we live in.
I mean, even if you think of,like, what they call it content
marketing, right, uh, right,it's, it's even social media.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I'm no good at that.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
No sure, but the social media that tells a story,
that has that engagement, isgoing to do well, you know,
cause there's somethinginherently inside of all of us
that responds to that.
Whether it's long form or shortform storytelling, people
respond to it because they loveto hear that story, because
maybe it's just ingrained in usthat we know that that has value
.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So I think it's also we like to know we're not alone.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
So when you're listening to us, when you're
sharing, you know someone'sstory about a plant or garden or
whatever and say I read it, I'mlike that's my papa.
We all can make theseconnections.
Or, oh, I did that with mybabies.
I wonder if that's becausethey're from the similar area of
(10:59):
the country.
As you know, my grandmother was, and so I think it really helps
to continue these threads.
And then we see that theyounger generations taking these
threads to new technologicalareas right, but I think it's
amazing.
So I love, I love that you putthat in your work.
So I just felt like I wanted toI don't know talk about that
(11:21):
for a little while, because Ijust think it's so cool that
your work includes people youknow, yeah, sure, and I've even
found as a teacher thatstorytelling works.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
It's such an important tool, you know, even
if the story is just to drawpeople in and to get their
interest.
You know now they're payingattention to what I'm saying
that we can have these as ateaching opportunity, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, storytelling is powerful and I'm lucky to be in
situations where I find notonly are folks willing to share
their stories with me, but thenI have the opportunity to share
those stories with an even wideraudience.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
My grandfather would have loved you.
Would have loved you.
Um, he used to record storiesfrom uh people from his town who
lived through the depressionand served in the second world
war.
He would go and interview themso he, I don't know he did he,
(12:22):
so we have copies of all of that, but he was very much the the
the grand storyteller, so hewould.
He would be really enjoyinglooking over all your material
if he was still with us.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
So that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah, so all right, tell us a little bit about herbs
and every season.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yes, so this is coming out soon.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
It's coming out like right away.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I got to get a copy of it.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
You got to.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
You will love it the most.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
So it comes out March 25th.
So if your listeners arelistening before that, we're
doing pre-sales, we're doingpre-orders right now so they can
still get a copy of it ordered,and the pre-orders that we're
doing come with some great giftsas well too.
Um, but at the end of mytelling you what my favorite
book was, I think this is goingto be where I ended anyways,
because oh good, I'm sorry no,no, my gosh, no cool that's.
(13:12):
It's all good, but because Ithink that it's the best work
I've ever done, you know it'syeah, you know well, I've had
all these years now reallyfine-tuning the craft, so so to
speak, but some of my books havedone quite well commercially,
and so what that means is thatthis book is with Timber Press
and Timber Press really allowedme the opportunity to kind of do
(13:35):
whatever I want, and whenyou're working with a larger
publisher sometimes that's notalways the case.
They have specifics that theywant to do.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I couldn't choose my own covers.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Well, right, yeah, I didn't even get a say in it.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
They just said this is what we chose, and I was like
, oh, and that's usually the waythat doesn't look like me at
all it's, it's tough, it's.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
That's a balancing act that I've learned over the
years.
I just sometimes just got tolet go and let somebody else do
stuff.
But with this one, you knowthey they are interested in an
herbal medicine book is whatthey wanted, you know.
And I was like, okay, we coulddo that.
I've kind of already donesomething like that.
A few years ago we wrote theArtisan Herbalist, which is
really Beautiful book.
Oh, thank you, I appreciatethat.
So I told him.
(14:17):
I said you know, I've kind ofalready done that.
So I really want to kind ofexpand on that concept and let's
look at herbs through the lensof the seasons.
Let's follow these plantsthrough the life of an entire
year.
But we can't just talk aboutthem from a medicinal standpoint
.
I also want to talk about theseplants from a culinary
standpoint, In real life.
(14:37):
I do both.
I'm not just a strictlymedicinal herbalist, right?
I mean I'm also using herbs inthe kitchen, not just a strictly
medicinal herbalist, right?
I mean, I'm also using herbs inthe kitchen and most people do
so to truly communicate withsomebody the importance of herbs
as a lifestyle.
We have to talk about it fromboth points of view.
And they were like okay, youcould do that if you want.
And I was like well, thankgoodness, I've already written
like 45,000 words.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Well, that's a good thing we're on the same page,
because let me tell you, it'sdone.
Yeah, it's a good thing we'reon the same page because let me
tell you it's done.
Yeah, it's already done.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I'm turning it in.
It's already done.
Oh, that's awesome.
Yeah, it came out really nice.
So we broke it down seasonally.
We started with spring and Imean, depending on your
philosophy, the seasons couldstart at any point, so you could
really pick this book and justopen it up at any stage.
But we started with spring andworked our way through the
seasons.
So each season features plantsthat predominantly exist for me
in that season or are plantsthat I need in some way during
(15:30):
that season, right.
So we really took the seasonalapproach.
And then we talk about herbs inthe kitchen, we talk about
herbs in the apothecary, but Ialso have to talk about growing
or foraging the herbs, where tofind it, habitats, that sort of
thing.
So it's really the mostinclusive thing that I've ever
been able to write.
It's it's really it's jampacked full of info.
It's pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
It sounds incredible.
So I, I, I, I mean, I'm aclinical herbalist, blah blah,
blah, blah blah.
Anyways but my favorite thing ispreparing food for my family.
I always joke I probably shouldhave been like a chef but like
I love you know stuffing herbsand things people don't think
(16:14):
about and making my own spiceblends and you know my whole I
have a whole section of mykitchen that's just cooking
herbs and people look at me likeI'm crazy and I feel like I may
have found someone I would loveto cook a meal with sometime.
Oh, I would love that.
It's like so much fun in that.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
You were a guest on my podcast sometime last year, I
believe it was, and we did askthe herbalist segment, where
people send in their questionsand have them, you know.
So it was a lot of it wasmedicinal herb questions.
You know what I mean.
So you were the perfect personto have on being a clinical
herbalist and at one point Iasked you what is one of your
favorite ways to work with herbs, and that's what you said was
(16:56):
using it to using herbs to cookfor your family, and I thought
that is the message right there.
You know, even somebody who issteeped in clinical medicinal
knowledge understands theimportance of herbs from the
culinary standpoint and the rolethat that plays.
That's heavy right.
It's so easy for us to getboxed into thinking about things
one way or the other, but inreality, both exist
(17:18):
simultaneously, right.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Oh, you make a tasty meal and the medicine will go
down.
I don't care what you'refeeding your kids.
If you make a tasty meal andthe medicine will go down, I
don't care what you're feedingyour kids, if you make a tasty
meal with it, they're going toget there.
And so many times my kids weregetting medicine and no idea
Like it's like.
Let me make you a tea thattastes like dirty sock.
All right, we're having dirtysock for dinner and you'll never
(17:41):
know.
You know it just makes life somuch easier when you understand
that.
So I'm really excited.
I'm really excited to see yourconnections to the seasons,
because I think we're going tolearn a lot about you.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, you know, you may be telling us more than you
want.
You're like well, you know, andI don't mind having that, you
know, chance for people to kindof look into my personal world a
little bit.
I think that's important.
When we were working on thebook, you know, I really wanted
to make it accessible to as manypeople as possible.
But not everybody is going toexperience the seasons the same
way that I do, right, someplaces.
(18:15):
Well, my sister-in-law lives inSan Diego.
She doesn't even have a season,you know what I mean.
So we had to think about it,seasons from many perspectives,
like there's the seasons that Iexperience, you know they're
very distinct and different, butthere's also the seasons of a
day or the seasons of our lives,and and I really wanted to kind
of lean into those concepts aswell, because I think that as
(18:38):
herbalists, as medicine makers,it's important for us to see
those relationships that we havewith the outside world and how
it connects to the relationshipswe have with our inside world
as well.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Oh, I love that.
I have been personally workingon getting more aligned with my
day, so I would always get up atlike four o'clock in the
morning, start working rightaway and, like you know, do a 12
hour day.
And then and I was like this isinsane- yeah, that's a lot.
And I was like, what about thethings I really want?
(19:13):
What gives me minutes of gracethat last all day?
And I'm like sunrise does,sunset does, getting sunshine on
my skin, does you know?
And experiencing the season ofthe day.
So I just love how you you putthat, because I think that we
get so, even like herbalists,get so connected to this box
(19:37):
here and then we have to workand we have to produce and we
have to implement.
We're competing against amillion different things out
there and you're like whoa, slowdown, speed Racer.
Like what's going on here?
How can I look at thisdifferently?
And I love you should make acompanion workbook.
Oh, for people to like what?
(19:58):
What was my seasonal day?
You know like you could dosomething really fun with it.
Or today's the day you makelike a really sexy mexican hot
chocolate with all the beansfrom here.
Or you could do like a you know, a golden milk or a soup.
Or you could like do all kindsof fun stuff for people.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Now that I gave you another project.
Yeah, yeah, I'll put that intomy spare time.
We'll work that in.
No, that's a really cool idea,you know, and I think that
helping people find reasons toexperience that you know what I
mean.
So there's a lot of recipes inthe book to try to help people
that tactile sit down and let'sget in the kitchen and let's
make something.
You know, because I to try tohelp people that tactile sit
down and let's get in thekitchen and let's make something
.
You know, um, cause I thinkthat is important to experience.
(20:36):
It's interesting what you'resaying about.
You know, even as herbalists,that sometimes we find ourselves
, um, you know, stuck on thiscomputer and we're not trying to
, we don't have the opportunityto maybe get outside or we don't
prioritize it Like maybe weshould.
And I find that, beingself-employed, it's even more
difficult.
You know what I mean, becausethere's nothing to stop me from
working 24 hours a day.
Like you work in a punch in,punch out job.
(20:57):
You're punched in or punchedout, but when you're an
entrepreneur, it's like youcould accidentally slip into
working all day and night.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I've had times where I have We've got to redo an
update, we have securityprotocols, we have this.
We're redoing 3500 pages ofcontent, like you know.
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I would literally have gone to a hotel and worked
24 7 for like four or five days,just because I don't know you
have well, I mean, sometimes yougotta everyone's coming up and
you're like you gotta got to getthis done, and so I mean that's
part of it.
But the routine, if thatbecomes the routine, that's not
(21:38):
healthy.
No, no, you're so right sofinding those barriers is very
important to provide that.
Allow yourself to have thatspace and think about your day
as the seasons, you know, noteverything is the super
productive summer, you know.
We're going to have the winddown of the fall, we're going to
have the peace of the winterand we have to incorporate that
into our day-to-day life and Ithink, I think that that's
(21:59):
really important.
So, for me, working on the bookwas a big wake-up call, because
I am one of those let's work 24hours a day.
Let's just you know, it happens, it happens, I, you know.
So it was good for me, it wasreally good for me to write that
down and be like, oh, if I'mgoing to put this in a book, I
got to live it, we got to bedoing it.
Um, so it was really nice, itwas really nice.
(22:20):
So I'm I'm excited to share thebook with everybody.
I'm excited to get it out thereand I hope that everybody
enjoys it as much as I enjoyedmaking it.
Um, because it's really like Isaid, I think it's some of the
best work that I've done.
It's really brought together alot of the messaging here at
Small House Farm and presentedit in a way that I haven't been
able to do before.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
That's so awesome.
So what do you think will bethe favorite recipe?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Say that again.
You broke up, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
What do you think will be everyone's favorite
recipe?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Or what's one you think we should buy the book to
make immediately.
What do you think will justblow people's socks off?
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Well, one that was really popular.
We had a photographer come.
She came out and spent fourdays here shooting a bunch of
stuff around the gardens, andthen we did a bunch of the
recipes and one that really gother.
We did a super sunflowercornbread where I replaced a
bunch of the cornmeal withactually ground sunflower seeds
and it's got sunflower oil in it, and then we decorated the top
(23:26):
of it with sunflower petals.
When we made it it came out sobeautiful and it was so
delicious.
And she's you know, she wasfrom Chicago.
She's like I don't even eatcornbread, she's like, but I
would eat this every single day,and so that one was a hit.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
We really did a lot of different stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, it was really fun to make.
We did so many different things.
Each herb there's what 40 herbsin the book or something like
that and each herb's gotmultiple recipes.
So there's what 40 herbs in thebook or something like that,
and each herb's got multiplerecipes.
So there's a lot.
So it would be hard for me topick a favorite one.
But the sunflower was a fun one, the sunflower cornbread Really
I loved decorating it with thesunflower petals.
(24:02):
That's really why I'm pickingthat one, because it was like a
little work of art, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I think that's probably the perfect reason.
There is somebody on Instagramwho decorates breads and cakes
with flowers, and every time Isee it I'm like I want to do
that.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
So I can understand why you like that.
I actually seen somebody haddone a focaccia bread and it was
very beautiful and that was myinspiration.
I was like I'm going to try todo this and mine did not turn
out that beautiful, you know,not as beautiful as this
Instagram photo, but it wasstill nice.
And you know, and that's thecool kind of cool thing about it
is everybody that's going tomake that is going to do it
differently and they're going toexpress themselves differently
(24:42):
and they're going to make itthemselves.
It's going to represent thempersonally and I think that's an
important thing when we learnabout herbs, to understand how
personal it is.
You know, whether it's in thekitchen or it's in the
apothecary, everything's veryunique to where you are, who you
are, whatever ailment you'retrying to cure.
You know all of these thingsare very specific and that's
(25:05):
sort of the beauty of it.
You know that it really givesus these opportunities to be, to
celebrate our uniqueness tocelebrate our uniqueness, right?
Speaker 1 (25:20):
yeah, absolutely I.
I am not a fan of herbalism orcooking or anything that it's
like.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
This is the only way it's done, you know I'm like no,
I will intentionally do itdifferently, just because they
say that, um for sure no andthat.
so we try to do that with thoserecipes too.
All of them are like I kind oflike doing it like this, but
maybe you could try doingsomething different, because,
well, why not and that's part ofthe fun of it, you know, like,
especially in the kitchen, theexperimentation that you can do
(25:45):
to try different things and tonot be afraid to fail, that's,
that's the beauty of the wholething.
So we really try to lean intothat and help people just find
joy in herbs, right?
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, I love that.
So is there anything else youwant to tell us about this book
and why we have to run and getit from your website pre-order?
Because that helps the authors,people, right, it's huge, it's
tremendous.
It helps the authors and, look,I know we all have had plenty
(26:18):
of those boxes on our frontporch from all kinds of places
no names, I don't want to betaken out, but you know we've
all but there is somethingreally important about
purchasing from the author itreally does a lot for them.
(26:40):
So can you, can you tell us whywe need to get this from you
immediately?
Well, I'm going to order itwhen we get off the phone.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Oh, you're awesome.
You're awesome.
Well, so if you get the bookfrom us, if you pre-order the
book through us, not only do youget the book right away and you
get it autographed by me andsome people like that, right
Cool.
But I'm also going to send youother things with it.
I'm going to send you fivepackets of seeds from our garden
.
We have a little mini seedbusiness here at Small House
Farm, so I'm going to send youfive packets of seeds right from
(27:09):
our farm likely herbs andflowers, but who knows what kind
of gems we're going to comeacross that we're going to send.
So that's going to be asurprise.
And then you also get asix-month paid membership to our
Patreon community automatically.
As soon as you buy the bookonline, you get the email
triggered, sent right to you tosign up for the Patreon.
So it's six months for free,and that includes a ton of perks
(27:31):
and benefits.
So as a patreon member, you get.
You get exclusive content, youget bonus episodes of the
podcast, you get all sorts ofdifferent things and some tiers.
You get herbal, seasonal herbalgift boxes sent right to your
door, um, so more boxes on theporch, right?
So you would get.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
They're from you, they're from me and it's it's,
they're handcrafted.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
So you will.
Every season, you will get abox of seasonal herbal products,
whether it's teas and tincturesand and salves and um sauces
and lotions and seasoning blendsand all sorts of different
stuff.
It's it's always different andit is one of the most fun things
.
I love getting to do it becauseyou know a small house.
We sell a lot of herbalproducts on our website.
(28:12):
We have a whole store there.
So those products we've beenoffering those things for some
of them for years and years andI got to make them in bulk and
I'm making tons of them all thetime and that's the way that it
is.
But these ones you don't.
These are not available on thewebsite.
These are unique products thatonly come in these packages.
So it allows us thisopportunity to kind of
experiment on a smaller scaleand make different things and
(28:34):
play with the seasons and have alot of fun.
So it's been making thingsreally fun to be making these
different products again.
It's been really nice.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
What a cool gift.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
It is pretty cool, they're pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
That would be like a good bridesmaids gift.
Like you sign all yourbridesmaids up for the thing and
they get it for like a year.
Or you know you have a teenagerthat's into this kind of stuff,
or you're like your aunt, or it.
Just all I'm thinking is likewhat a cool.
I would have loved if I when Iwas younger and I didn't know
how to do all this stuff, but Iwas into it if someone had
(29:06):
signed me up for something likethat.
I just would have thought itwas amazing.
But what a cool thing to toshare with the community overall
.
Like that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah, it's been really fun and they've been
quite popular so we like doingit.
So the Patreon membership,that's another perk we're just
giving folks.
If they pre-order the book.
We just sign you right up to theprogram for free for six months
so they can kind of you knowexperience it and see if it's
for them and that sort of thing,and then obviously, obviously,
(29:40):
you get the book, which is thebiggest deal of it.
All right, so we do encouragethe pre-orders and, you know,
ordering from an author isalways the best thing that you
can do, as opposed to thenameless giant online store that
sells things to people, um,because when you order directly,
um, everybody benefits morethat way.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Let's put it like that.
Oh Well, I found out at somepoint with one of my publishers.
I was like, hey, my book'sbeing sold at this place and we
don't actually sell it in thiscountry.
And they were like, well, sucksto suck, they don't respect
copyright law.
And I was like, oh okay, solike when you order from the
(30:15):
author, it's not a counterfeitproduct, it's not.
You know, um, you know, it'snot the same with the herbal
products when you're gettingthem from the person, they're
actually coming from the person.
And I know that sounds silly tosay it like that, but I wasn't
aware until maybe five or sixyears ago I ordered some it was
(30:40):
like a lipstick thing for one ofmy son's friends.
I was like, oh, I'll get it forher for her birthday, that's
what she wanted.
And she was like I'm reallysorry to tell you this, this
counterfeit.
And I was like what?
And it was like it'm reallysorry to tell you this, this
counterfeit.
And I was like what?
And it was like it was like abig brand, it was like total
counterfeit cosmetic.
And ever since then it kind oflike opened my eyes to like
(31:04):
anything I put in my body.
I really want to know who theprovider is, and I know that
sounds paranoid, but I don'tknow.
I got nothing better to do.
I'm getting old, you know.
I just cause I didn't.
I didn't know anything aboutbuying makeup.
So if I don't know somethingabout, if I don't know about
herbs, then I'm going to orderfrom an herbalist.
If I don't know about, you know, cutting boards, I'm going to
(31:27):
order a cutting board from theperson that makes them, because
I I always kind of link that toone.
It's great and it's really asustainable way to live, but
also it just I don't know safety, you know.
So I mean I know it kind of.
I kind of went off on the railshere, so I apologize, but it's
like you get the book from theauthor.
You know exactly who you'regetting it from and who your
money is directly supporting.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
And absolutely that's what I'm trying to get around
and, like you said, it's likethat with everything it's going
to the farmer's market asopposed to the grocery store.
The closer you can get to thesource with anything, the better
it's going to be for everybody.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So.
Tell us about your seed library.
You had to have known I wasgoing to bring this up.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, for sure.
So seed library.
So there, for sure, so seedlibrary.
So there's there's multitude ofanswers here, so it's a
multi-faceted situation with theseed library.
So here, a small house farm, westore and preserve a lot of
seeds, all sorts of varieties.
On the other side of this wall,behind me, is freezer chests
full of seeds, all right, sosort of a seed bank type of
(32:29):
thing.
And then what we are able toevery year, depending on space
and pollination, isolation wewon't dig into that, but it's
what we're able to grow here wegrow out every year and then to
multiply that seed, and then weoffer it through our website to
folks through our little seedstore, if people want to
purchase these unusual andunique varieties, so then they
can grow it in their gardens,and then that the whole seed
(32:53):
preservation program that wehave, and that's fun for us, but
we had to make it fun for thewhole community as well.
So what we've gotten involvedin in 2017, I founded an
organization called the MichiganSeed Library Network and
essentially we've developed anetwork of seed libraries all
throughout the state.
(33:13):
And what a seed library is?
Well, it's just like a typicallibrary, really.
You can think of it like that,where people will come to check
out books At a seed library.
You come to check out seeds,you take the seeds home, you
grow them in your garden, youenjoy it and then, in theory, in
the fall just like you wouldreturn your book you return
fresh seeds to the seed libraryto restock it.
So other members of yourcommunity have access to locally
(33:34):
grown, high quality seeds andit's really taken off.
As of now, there are 145 seedlibraries in the state of
Michigan, yeah, right.
And to put that in perspective,there's maybe 700 nationwide
and 145 of them are here inMichigan, right?
So I mean, it's a lot oflegwork.
(33:55):
There's a lot of peopleinvolved.
It's not just me.
I helped found the organization.
There's a number of volunteersthat help all the seed
librarians doing all the work.
It's grown.
It's quite a serious situation,but it's not just isolated to
Michigan.
You know there's seed librariesall over the place.
So wherever your listeners aretuning in, you know they can
probably find a seed library notfar from them, and I would
(34:19):
recommend the Community SeedNetwork.
The Community Seed Network hasa website that you can go on.
It's got an interactive map andyou can find seed libraries or
seed stewards near you as well.
So you can find that, and wekind of replicated that idea
with the Michigan Seed LibraryNetwork.
We have a map of Michigan whereeverybody could find all the
seed libraries that we have here, and you know it's originally I
was pushing a lot of likevegetables, garden crops you
(34:41):
know what I mean Tomatoes andmelons and whatever might be for
people to eat.
But as it kind of shapes itself,the more that it's out there
with the public, it's reallybecome a lot of native plants,
there's a lot of herbs.
That sort of thing has reallybecome some of the mainstays of
a lot of these seed libraries.
So it is a great way to getaccess to seeds for native
plants for your region, herbsthat you might want to grow in
(35:03):
your gardens.
It's really, really cool to seethat sort of thing happening.
So even here at Small House,our seed collection, our online
store, has really come into alot of herbs lately.
We are selling a lot more herbsthan we used to.
When we first started it was alot of beans and tomatoes, and I
still do a lot of beans andtomatoes, but the page that we
(35:25):
sell herb seeds has grownsignificantly, yeah, so we've
got lots of cool herbs thatwe're offering seeds for.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
That's awesome.
It's nothing better thanhomegrown tomatoes.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Homegrown tomatoes.
Oh, you got it.
They are the best, and sothat's kind of a thing, too,
when we're finding the varietiesthat we want to grow.
We're going to grow some thingsbecause they're historically
significant.
We're going to grow some things, maybe, because they're
sentimental, they're familyheirlooms.
We're going to grow some thingsbecause they're just gosh darn
delicious.
I'm going to grow some herbsbecause they're bringing in
pollinators or because I'm goingto use them in the apothecary,
(35:56):
or because I can't get enough ofthem in the kitchen.
There's so many great reasons togrow as much as you can, you
know, with the space that youhave.
So it's cool to be able tooffer these seeds, because then
the customers they'll alwaysemail me and tell me how their
stuff's doing or whatever, andit's fun to see all the
different.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
It's like you got little babies all over the place
right.
You got little herb grandbabies.
Well, I always think it's funnywhen people who like very, when
I'm talking to people of like avery traditional lawn setup and
then they'll say something likewell, I heard, this was a native
plant, I was thinking ofgetting it and I always want to
(36:34):
be like you're in trouble, nowI'm going to take this and
replace it with, you know, apollinator.
I'm like, oops, all right,you're going to have a
completely different yard nextyear.
And it's great because peopledo, or or they say, well, I'm
not buying my plants fromwhatever huge store anymore, I'm
getting them from this personor I'm getting from this place
(36:54):
because of you know they havemore what I'm interested in.
And I love that, because whenyou purchase a plant or a seed
from someone who's reallyinvolved with the history of it,
it just I kind of feel like youget to bring those memories to
your land too.
You bring that, that feeling ofyes, this has been cared for
(37:15):
and intended, and you know it'salmost like I don't know.
You get to continue a legacy ofpreservation and conservation
and eating really good maters.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Absolutely.
I always tell people theybecome a part of the story.
Now too, they're like the nextchapter in the story.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yeah, for sure.
Do you find that a lot of thepeople interested in seed saving
and growing native plants andtheir demographic is changing to
a more younger population?
I feel like the amount ofinformation my sons in their 20s
(37:57):
have about native plants andlike, just like all of this
stuff and not just becausethey're my kids, right, like
they would probably technicallyhave an advantage, but like even
their friends it's like a wholedifferent.
Oh yeah, this is their heritage.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Okra or whatever.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
You know, and I'm like looking at this like 20
something year old firefighter,like okay, cool, like I just
feel like it's something thatyounger people are talking about
, more or more interested in,and I don't know, maybe that's
just me, but do you find thatwith your sales and the people
that are coming to you know yourworkshops and classes?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Oh yeah, I would agree with that.
I would say that, justgenerally, interest in this sort
of thing has grown with everyage group.
You know what I mean A lot offolks are really getting
interested in gardening orgrowing their own, or the
benefits of herbs, but certainlymore younger people now than I
would have said 10 years ago.
For sure, and maybe a lot ofthat does have to do with the
social media.
(38:56):
You know years ago, for sure,and maybe a lot of that does
have to do with the social media.
You know their ability to haveaccess to very quickly all sorts
of snippets of information andthen with the algorithms you
look at one plant picture andboy now you're just going to get
a bunch of plant pictures,right?
Speaker 1 (39:09):
I should have never looked up a chainsaw.
Let me just tell you that.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
You got to stick with plant pictures.
That's the key.
But, you know, and I think thatyou're right, though, there's
something going on that haspiqued people's interests in the
natural world in a way thatseems very new and it's very
exciting, and people are reallycoming into that in a really
interesting way.
Um, so it's very exciting tosee, you know, I'm not gonna say
(39:35):
the, the big p word, but um, in2020, there's this thing that
happened and oh, oh, oh, my gosh, this is how slow I am.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
I'm like it's, I'm like what is he?
All right.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I'm gonna say it for clarity I get you now.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
I'm the only slow, everyone else is already caught
on.
Who will be listening?
Speaker 2 (39:59):
I hope so, oh goodness, no, no.
So in 2020.
And that moment, the silverlining of that, if we wanted to
see it, was, all of a sudden,people, like eyes, opened up to
things in a very different way,things in a very different way.
And then I think it's just beenreally really cool to see
(40:19):
people wanting to get back tothe land or get back to, you
know, learning more about herbsor trying to grow their own food
or whatever it might be.
It's really cool.
And I was so worried that youknow we'd have this big spike
when it happened and everybodyhad a panic.
You know that it would kind ofpeter out, it would be over with
, but it really seems to haveheld on with a lot of folks that
that continued interest.
You know, maybe not everybody'sdoing sourdough bread like they
(40:41):
were, but a lot of folks arestill out there gardening and
doing things and learning aboutplants, and it's so cool to see
that because well, as herbalists, you know that's like our dream
come true.
right To see other people goingout there and doing that as
teachers wanting to get peopleturned on to the land, seeing it
happening in real time.
That's pretty much the coolestthing.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Oh yeah, I've got to agree with you on that.
I feel like, yeah, we may notall be out in our gardens as
much as we were a few years agoor baking the sourdough bread,
but I think from thoseexperiences, people are like I
care who grows my vegetables, Icare where they come from, I
care who's baking my bread formy family in a different way.
(41:25):
So I think, even if they're notdoing themselves, they are
definitely supportingprofessions that are now
offering those.
But I think farmers markets arejust getting.
I mean, I live in the in themiddle of nowhere and there's
probably four or five within ahalf hour and you know, I just
(41:46):
I'm not sure if they were allthere years ago cause we were
transplants, but, um, I justfeel like this, this interest
has not waned.
People are natural soap andthey're just kind of continuing,
maybe not doing the skillthemselves anymore, but they're
definitely willing to pay forthat.
They value it now.
I really think yeah, I agree.
(42:08):
So you mentioned classes.
Tell us about the classes thatyou offer.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Oh yes, so a lot of the educational programming that
we do is in person.
Right, I do a lot in the springand in the fall I travel all
over the place.
Like that's no exaggeration.
I mean I've traveled from LA toPrince Edward Island you know
what I mean At all points inbetween.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
I love Prince Edward Island.
I can't believe you just saidthat.
Have you ever had theirpotatoes?
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I did not have their potatoes?
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Oh my gosh, they're the seriously the best potatoes
in the whole world.
What, yes, if you go thereagain, when you go there again,
you have to go.
And then my family used to haveproperty there.
Really, yeah, um, there was.
My mother found these twolittle cabins and our cottages,
I should say a long time ago,but anyways, it is definitely
(43:04):
like I'm Prince Edward Islandgirl before the bridge.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Oh, okay, well, that's cool, I was only there.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
the one time for a conference.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
But the point being, I travel a lot to teach, so I do
a lot of that, but noteverybody obviously can make it
to these in-person things.
So we did start a YouTubechannel a while ago so we were
able to put some someeducational programming on
through there.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
How do we find the channel?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Oh, small house farm All right, small house farm,
that's so.
It's a simple way to find allof our stuff.
But one thing that we justrecently did, um that I was so
excited about is we connectedwith an organization called the
School of Traditional Skills,and it's an online school and
they offer classes for you thinkabout it homesteading, they got
it from, you know, raisingchickens to butchering cattle,
(43:48):
to all you name it.
They got it right, and so theygot ahold of me to do an herb
gardening program for theirschool.
So last July, so last summer,they brought this film crew out
and they were here for many daysand we shot what turned into 17
videos, everything about herbgardening, and I'm talking like
from like you know where you'regoing to source your seeds, to
(44:10):
planting out your garden, towhere your sun is, to soil,
testing every step of it, allthe way through harvesting,
drying and processing herbs, thewhole gambit.
And it's a beautiful class thatthey put together with all.
I mean, they followed me aroundfor days with the camera and in
the gardens and I toldeverything I know about growing
these plants, and it's turnedout to be beautiful and that's
(44:31):
coming out.
Um, basically, as we'rerecording this.
It's coming out, um.
So if they visit the smallhouse farm website,
smallhousefarmcom, you'll see alink to that.
It says like online classes orsomething, and it'll take you
straight through to the schoolso you can check out my class as
well as all the other offeringsthrough the school.
It's a really cool organizationand I was really lucky to
connect with them.
(44:51):
Um, it was just kind of youknow, like-minded people
sometimes bump into other.
We just kind of found ourselvesin the same place at the same
time and a conversation came upand they said we want you to do
this class and it was cool toreally be able to lean into
teaching everything I know aboutgrowing herbs.
You know, because we've beengrowing herbs here for a couple
decades now and out of all thebooks I've written, I haven't
(45:13):
really written a bookspecifically all about
everything I know about growingherbs.
So it was cool to be able toput that into a place for folks
so that they could, you know,learn from all of my experiences
and not make all the mistakes Imade and have the herb garden
of their dreams.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Oh, that's awesome.
Oh, I love that so much.
You've you've incorporated, youknow, homesteading, which is
really popular right now, butalso just growing herbs and
practical practicality.
And you know, I just I thinkwe're in an age where we're
(45:47):
really lucky, we can, if we look, we can find the voices that we
need to hear.
You know, we can turn off theones that we don't need to hear.
If we want to, we can find, wecan.
You can find pretty much aclass for anything.
I'm a total class like nut,Like I'm gonna I'm gonna be
(46:10):
taking a hopefully fingerscrossed a large equipment
operating class so I can learnhow to use, like a skid steer
and all this kind of stuff.
Oh cool.
You never know right, you neverknow when it's going to come up,
but like I love doing stufflike that, like I love, like
always, and I think if peoplelook they can find it.
So look, bevan is teachingthese things.
(46:30):
He is out here, he's giving youthe information, he's got books
, he has a website.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
He has his own seed library.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
People Check it out.
I just love that so much and Ilove that you've taken the time
today to connect with us and toshare your story and to share
about your herb gardening withBevan, which is coming out very
soon.
So thank you so much.
Did I say the name of the book,right?
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Herbs in.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Every Season.
Sorry, the class is HerbGardening.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
It's a lot of the same words over and over again,
but yes, you got it.
It's Herbs in Every Season andit comes out March 25th, but if
they hear this before that, theycan always pre-order on my
website.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Yeah, we're putting it up before then because I'm
like, nope, let's get peoplesome freebies if they want.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Oh, yeah, for sure they would love it, especially
yeah, listeners, you know foryour podcast students from the
school.
I think that they would reallybenefit from it.
Some of our patrons, some ofour members, you know, because
you can really get to know thempersonally because it's really
cool and some of them are likeolder, experienced herbalists
and they say, oh, we love theseboxes because you're sending us
stuff that I never made it likethat before, or I never even
(47:38):
thought of working with thisherb, and so they're learning
new ideas and techniques andthey're getting inspired and
they're old herbies, you know.
So I think it's reallysomething that's just it's cool
for everybody.
But selfishly, I love it themost because it gives me the
chance to just really get outthere and experiment with the
plants in a way that I hadn'tbeen able to do in a few years.
So every time somebody supportsit, they're supporting my
(47:59):
ability to play in the gardenand I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
That's awesome.
That's so awesome.
I, I, um, I love when I go tolike a health fair or a products
expo or whatever and I seethings I've never seen before.
I just I'm always like oh,that's so awesome, like, or I
(48:24):
don't have to make it, someoneelse can make it, and they make
it better than me.
I want to buy this and not haveto worry about it, Right.
Like there's some things you'relike no one will ever make it
better than me, Right?
And then there's other thingsthat you're like everyone's
going to make it and that's agood thing to own and to be like
I'm going to support a businessthat's going to do do it for me
(48:46):
and really get to learnsomething in the process.
So, thank you so much.
Thank you for being on.
We've taken up almost an hourof your time, so I do really
appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
Oh, Demetria, thank you so much for having me on the
show.
This was super fun.
It was an honor for me to beable to sit down and chat with
you.
This was very, very cool for me.
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Oh well, thank you so much and please keep us updated
on any other things that comeout so we can have you back or
any other big projects you'redoing, because, um, what I want
to try to do with this podcastseries is, I want to highlight
how herbalism is different foreveryone and how we all have a
(49:30):
place in herbalism, and it's notalways you know what we think
it is.
It's often people just like us,like you know, like you know
what we think it is.
It's often people just like us,like you know, like you know,
like people who are just people,who are doing their mission and
have incredible, illustriousgifts.
I really appreciate it.
You have a wonderful day.
(49:50):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Thanks again.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Thanks, bye, bye.
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