Alice Child: Want better sex? A sex therapist reveals all...

In episode 39, Mitch Wallis speaks to Alice Child, a Somatic Sexologist, Sex Counsellor and Sex Coach who believes everyone deserves a happy, healthy, safe and fulfilled sex life. Alice has a passion for vulnerable conversations, confronting taboos, and creating inclusive spaces free of judgment. This episode covers:

• Why shame surrounds sex and how we can start to shift our perspective
• The most common concerns that people see a sex therapist for
• Play, initiation, domination, submission, consent and making safety sexy
• Why self-pleasure is so important for our physical and mental health
• How our mental health plays such an intricate role in our pleasure experience
• Monogamy, polyamory and everything in-between - exploring our edge
• What are sexual kinks and fetishes? The psychology behind it
• Female pleasure - understanding why we need to get more cliterate (clit-literate)

Stay connected:

www.alicechild.com.au

www.instagram.com/alicechildofficial

www.instagram.com/mitch.wallis

Have feedback to share, questions you want answered or guests you want to see on the show? Get in touch: [e-mail]

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome back to another episode,You Beautiful animals.
We're here today talking to the amazing Alice child who's a
somatic sexologist, sex counsellor and sex coach who
believes everyone deserves a happy, healthy, safe and
fulfilled sex life. Alice has a passion for opening
tough conversations, confrontingtaboos and creating inclusive

(00:23):
spaces free of judgement. She works with couples,
individuals and groups exploringdiverse topics of sexuality,
intimacy and pleasure. In 2020 she founded Vulva
Dialogues to normalise conversations about sex and
empower individuals to learn more about their bodies and
sexual health. Volvo Dialogues has brought sex

(00:44):
positive workshops, talks and events to thousands of people
globally and I'm excited for herto be here to share her
expertise with you all. I really liked my chat with
Alice because I was able to ask a lot of questions in a space
that felt really receptive to true conscious answers.
I think that mental health and sex are very, very intertwined,

(01:07):
and relationship romantic relationships often have a
massive impact on the way that we feel and we interpret the
world. And I think there's going to be
some golden Nuggets in this chatthat you guys get, because I
certainly did. Just a reminder, please
subscribe, rate and review the show.
It goes a long way. We're giving you tonnes of free

(01:30):
value here. So the one thing you can do to
help us back, if you feel so inclined, is to get behind the
show, to help us spread the message.
That would be awesome. So without further ado, I'd like
to introduce to you Alice. I am personally, selfishly
excited for this episode. Alice, because it is a topic
that I don't often get a chance to explore in a safe,

(01:53):
conscientious way with a lot of people who can who want to go
there not only to educate but allow people to lean into
pleasure. Because I think that I used to
have sexual OCD as a child. So that topic for me was very,
very taboo, in fact, to the point where I felt like I was

(02:14):
possessed when I started having sexual thoughts about women as a
teenager. And I had to do a lot of therapy
to build comfort with having sexual thoughts and feelings and
even comfortable that I had the power to produce life, you know?
So why do you think as a societyto start with A a fairly big

(02:37):
question. Why do you think as a society we
shame? We have shame sex in the past.
Yeah, that's a huge question, isn't it?
There's so many reasons that we still live in a pretty sex
negative and conservative society.
You know, whether it's religion or just.
Shame around upbringing around bodies.
And I think that sex negativity,that embarrassment or

(02:59):
awkwardness or discomfort that so many are either explicitly or
implicitly taught when it comes to sex, shows up in people in
ways that maybe they don't even realise until they're adults, or
expressing them sexually for thefact themselves sexually for the
first time. And, you know, if you think
about your first formative experiences when it comes to

(03:20):
sex, or learning about sex or learning about intimacy or your
body, you know your experience isn't, you know, that uncommon.
Most people's first experiences are loaded with I'm doing
something wrong, you know, Even if, for example, a parent walks
in and even without meaning to cause harm, often go no or stop
that. Or, you know, make it.
Make it feel like they've just seen something awful.

(03:44):
And then because they have. Own shame they don't bring it up
themselves either. You know, I've talked with a lot
of parents who like, oh, my son or daughter walked in on us
having sex and no one said anything.
And because it becomes a bit of a cycle, you know, if your
parents can't talk about sex, the children can't.
And it becomes a bit of a cycle of shame and silencing.

(04:06):
And because we're taught that it's something we shouldn't talk
about, then the shame. That's where shame breeds in the
silence. Shame breeds in the silence.
I love that expression. I think there's a very good
parallel toward the sexual domain and the mental health
domain with that exact same thing.
Shane breeds silence, and silence breed shame.
It's kind of like a circular loop.

(04:26):
What prompted you to get into sex therapy?
Hmm. I've always been fascinated by
human sexuality. Hmm.
And I've always found talking about sex easier than maybe my
friends or people who I met. And but I chose a different
career. I chose advertising when I was,
you know, in my early 20s. And so I didn't really know how

(04:47):
to jump into this completely different career.
And so I started by slowly getting closer to the sexual
health space by working. For healthcare company and then
eventually a sex toy company anddoing sort of different training
and qualifications when it came to sex.
And eventually what really made me go, no, I just need to jump

(05:08):
ship completely and do this fulltime was in the middle of the
COVID pandemic Ivan sex workshops for women online and
they were called Vulva dialogues.
And we did about an 8 part series and I'd bring different
psychologists and sex educators and sex workers.
You name it, it was a very diverse group of sex positive

(05:30):
people and it was the favourite,my favourite thing I've ever
done. And after that I was like, I
don't want to just host and organise these spaces, I want to
be sitting where they are and have the answers to these
questions. So that was the real final push
to go and get certified and and change.
Change career. Yeah, massive Congrats for
making the leap. And I want to know, why do you

(05:51):
think it is that you feel more comfortable talking about sex
than most of your peers, like growing up?
That's a great. Question.
I don't think anyone's ever asked me that before.
I was very lucky. I was raised by some pretty cool
people who were very open about,you know, bodies and sex and
very much still in love. Couple.

(06:12):
Hmm. My parents are awesome and.
Or always made nudity and you know, just weird conversations.
Very normal in my house. So I think they've had a lot to
a lot to play. And I guess I'm also just a very
curious person. When I started to discover my
own sexuality, it was with the lens of joy and enthusiasm and

(06:36):
excitement. And the more I learned and
discovered, the more pleasure and excitement and confidence it
gave me as a person. And I started to realise that
this is such a huge part of whatmakes us who we are.
Yeah. And when I was able to explore
it fully, I was, you know, a better professional.
I was a better friend. I was, you know.

(06:56):
Had a family member because I just had a bit more richness of
who I was. So yeah, yeah, good question.
Many things, many influences. I think, yeah, I'm.
I think a lot of women especially probably struggle
with having that level of enthusiasm around it.
And men too. But unfortunately, females.

(07:17):
From where I see it, there's it's more loaded with shame than
it's necessarily should be by a long way.
Hmm. Have you ever felt shame when
talking about sex with other women?
I remember 1 formative experience when I was 16.
We played Never Have I ever. You know, it's a game we play a
lot in the UK and I think a lot in Australia as well.

(07:38):
And someone said never have I ever masturbated.
And all the guys drank and none of the women did, except for
myself, because I just hadn't ever had that conversation.
With any of my female friends. And was pretty surprised that no
one else drank. And then pretty surprised when
the backlash was, you know, surprise.
It wasn't mean, but it was definitely.

(08:01):
I can't believe Alice masturbates, you know, And I was
like, oh, no one else is drinking ohk OK And that, you
know, was brought up a lot for the years after that.
So that was the one time where female pleasure and sexuality
was definitely booted into a different category to my male
friend sexuality. So how did you not go down that
path then, of withdrawing from the subject and still bloom into

(08:24):
it when most people would shrinkas a result of that experience?
I guess because it was so fun. Talking sex is great.
Fucking alright. You know, I had a great first
partner. I lost my virginity at 18.
He was awesome. We were very open with those
sorts of conversations. The, as I said, all of my

(08:45):
friends were. Yeah.
Pretty cool people. I was lucky to have very sex
positive parents, so it was never a shameful conversation.
It was just a bit embarrassing. Sure.
You know, rather than all this is now something I can't talk
about ever again. I think that's testament also
not just to the way you managed the conversation about sex.

(09:08):
It also speaks to your mental health, your attachment style,
the parents that you had. Because you had a choice in that
moment and you chose the story to be.
That was a little embarrassing. Ohk Well, yeah, When a lot of
people can let that story festerinto part of their identity, a
formative, traumatic experience and recluse, What are some of

(09:29):
the stories? Let's start with what is a story
you tell yourself about sex, even now as an adult.
That helps you keep it in a positive domain.
It's good for us, you know, It'snot just good for our
relationships. A lot of people come to me
because they want to learn how to reignite their sex drive or

(09:50):
be better in bed for their partner.
You know they've lost their sex drive for one reason or another
and they realise that it's important for their marriage and
for their relationship and so want to reconnect and yet
they're not. Often there to do it for
themselves. You know they're motivated by
someone else, but actually sex is very good for the individual,
you know, you shouldn't be doingthese things out of pressure or

(10:13):
obligation for someone else. It should really be about doing
it because it's just another form of giving your body
pleasure, like going for a massage, you know, great sex.
It releases the same chemicals and neurotransmitters and
hormones in the body that help break up cortisol and stress
hormones to just help regulate your mood.
Help you sleep, help you connectto other people, and connect to

(10:36):
your own body as well. You know, there's been studies
into showing that sex is not only good for your mental
health, but your physical healthas well.
And then, of course, obviously your relationship.
So. It's a much bigger picture than
just have sex to make your partner happy.
It's so much more. There's so many threads there.
I just want to pull it. Like explore all of them.

(10:56):
I I'm frantically writing notes so that I don't miss any
questions and lady go. I wanted to ask Alice that.
So let's go a few different directions here.
I'm gonna ask you two percentagequestions.
The 1st is what percentage of people roughly out of gut feel
come to you because they want toget their bad sex life to

(11:18):
neutral versus the percentage ofpeople that want to get their
good sex life too. Amazing.
I would say. When I started it was about
5050. And for whatever reason, at the
moment the majority of the people that I see are going
from. I'm not happy with where it's
currently at. How can it?
How can it be good? OK.

(11:40):
I do love working with people who, you know what, it's pretty
good. But what more, you know, what
don't I know? Sure, help me explore even
further and, you know, explore certain fantasies or certain
areas that I know not enough about yet.
But at the moment, maybe becauseof the cost of living crisis,
most people who have the financial means to come and see
me, it's because they've reached, they've reached a point

(12:02):
where like this isn't sustainable anymore.
This is not sustainable for my own mental well being or my
relationship or my partner. And we need to, we need to
address it. Roger that O second percentage
question, I'm going to have 1/3.So I lied.
What percentage of people come to you because they wanna help,

(12:23):
they wanna give pleasure to their partner better versus they
want to give pleasure to themselves better?
It's normally very interlinked, You know, if someone comes
because they want to. Be better partners to the to the
significant. Other significant other than
others, then. Often that's where it starts.

(12:47):
And then there's a light bulb moment when they realise that
they the reason why they have this complicated relationship
with sex or don't want to have sex is because they've been
getting pretty average or unpleasant sex their whole life.
And they've experienced sexual pain and they've experienced,
you know, saying yes when reallythey meant no.
And they've got this whole storythat they didn't really realise

(13:10):
that they had about sex. And so it starts.
For the other person. And then they go, wait a minute,
I need to do this for me. Roger that.
So it's often. Kind of interlinked.
And the same the other way around.
If, for example, you know, I hada client who had quite a lot of
performance anxiety. I had experienced, you know,
erectile difficulty in prematureejaculation as a result.

(13:31):
Now did he want to be better in bed for his partner?
Yes, absolutely he did. He wanted to feel, you know,
more in tune with his masculinity and his ability to
to pleasure a woman, but he alsoneeded that for himself.
So for sure it's always. It's always a bit of both, I
think, and I don't really know how to ask this question, so

(13:51):
call me in if there's a better way to traverse it.
But what percentage of people roughly, uh, consider the
problem, at least in the initialsessions, to be if there is a
problem because of their partnerversus because of me?
Like how many people are pointing themselves this way or

(14:12):
that way? I'd say most people point to
themselves. Yeah, yeah, most people
internalise these things. I think it comes back to that
age old shame again. They internalise it.
And we have again, Society has created this idea that everyone
should just know what to do. You know, sex.
Yes, it is the most natural thing in the world, but that
doesn't mean that it's intuitive.

(14:32):
And actually, you know, I alwayssay that good lovers are made.
Born like It's a skill just likeany other.
And we have to learn how to be good and bad because we have to
learn, you know, what our body needs and what we like and how
to ask for it and how to find our voice and do all of that
when there's someone else in front of us as well and learn
about their body and what they need.

(14:53):
And all of that is a skill that you can't just learn through
trial and error and watching porn.
Like it's something which you genuinely just need to learn.
And if you haven't been able to do that for one reason or
another through often shame and silencing and awkwardness and
embarrassment, then you often internalise that you know I'm
not good and bad, or I'm a bad lover, or I'm selfish and people

(15:14):
use all of these really loaded terms.
Yeah, well, I was like, go easy on yourself.
You're none of these things. You just don't have the tools
yet because no ones taught them.No one teaches us them.
There's so much to learn about yourself through the physical
exploration with other and I I've considered myself, you

(15:35):
know, deeply learning about thistopic always.
And I look back at maybe some ofthe approaches I had and go and
think to myself, I wish I handled that better.
And you know, I'm I would like to consider myself an incredibly
conscientious and moral male versus the general pop.
By no means perfect, but constantly trying to do better,

(15:58):
particularly in regard to my relationships and respect toward
women as a my mom raised me almost on her own and she to
this day still my best friend and I just honour her more than
anything in the world. And I think that love then
extends to trying to celebrate and be an ally to the other

(16:19):
females in my life. Now when that pertains to sexual
partners, whether that be while I'm single or in a relationship,
as I said, there are moments where I'm like, God, I wish I
had approached that different. But I always learn and grow as a
result of it. One of the things that I find
interesting now, I've never actually spoken about this
before, so this is kind of new to me.

(16:41):
Is that before I touch a girl intimately for the first time or
and or we have sex for the firsttime, I will ask her, can I
touch you there? And then I'll say, do you want
to have sex? Awesome.
And that is something that I nowmake as kind of a rule.

(17:01):
But it's it's interesting what happens in the practical reality
of that because some girls have reacted to that with like a wow.
Thanks so much for asking. That's really respectful.
Thanks for not assuming the girls are like, why are you
asking? Like, what a vibe.
Kill being masculine. Take me, you know, this is
supposed to be a moment that youlead and my reflection is, I
don't want to stop doing it. I think if you're doing that

(17:24):
every single time you're about to engage with a sexual partner,
like, you know, multiple times down the track, it's like, dude,
you know, lead be a man. Which is where I want to
naturally get to, like, I I I want to be a pursuing male who
feels in control. But I I don't want to assume
that that's the position I get straight off the bat, want to

(17:45):
earn that level of safety. So do you have any thoughts or
reflections on that practise? Yeah, I think it's a fantastic
practise, especially as you say,when it's your first sexual
encounter with these people. It's actually law.
Now in NSW, that's affirmative. Consent is the law, which means
you have to get verbal, you know, consent, not justice.

(18:06):
Give something a go and and waitfor the no.
Or actually I didn't like that. So it's what you're doing is not
only morally and ethically great, it's actually.
Hello. But more than that, You know,
words are just one form of language.
Sure, people can communicate in lots of different ways, but when
you don't know someone that well, you don't know their

(18:27):
language. So by the time you've someone's
partner for multiple sexual encounters, you can probably
read their body language pretty you know a lot better than on
that first encounter. So you can start to, you know,
dance that dance together and work at different ways of
initiating that feel fine and playful.
Explorative and exciting for both of you, but before you've

(18:49):
done that. Yeah, lead with safety.
Because in order for great pleasure and arousal to build,
the body needs to feel safe 100%.
And I think sometimes men don't understand because we are
usually the more physically dominant, that because a man
doesn't necessarily ever feel unsafe or incredibly rarely on a

(19:11):
sexual encounter with a woman. They don't know what it feels
like to need to feel safe first,because that's the default.
So they can't relate to the feeling of a woman who might be
feeling unsafe as the default and move towards safety.
And that's why, like what we've been talking about here, I think

(19:33):
being explicit, the earlier it is, the more explicit consent
should be, and then the more comfortable something gets, the
more you can read someone's bodylanguage and not be like, do you
want to have sex Now it just naturally emerges spontaneously.
Totally. And some people don't even
realise that their body. Since feeling safe, you know,
our mind, body connection, we'renot taught a lot of embodiment

(19:55):
and embodiments, essentially listening to the body, listening
to those signals your body is sending you.
So if you think about when you're nervous, you know, some
people might get a tight, tight chest or tight throat or, you
know, feel it in different partsof their body.
That's listening to the signals that your body is sending you.
And often we're not very good atdoing that.
And so your body might be sending signals if we something
feels off, we don't feel safe. We're not sure we need to slow

(20:16):
things down. And unless you're pretty in tune
with your body. You might just be sort of saying
yes and going ahead with things faster than maybe your body is
telling you. And so having someone say do you
want to have sex is sometimes the pause that that person needs
to go. Do I actually no.
Can we slow this down? Yeah, Yeah.
It's also giving people a chanceto self reflect as well rather

(20:39):
than, you know, go with the flowand maybe move faster than
they're ready for. Beautifully said.
And I also think based on my experience, if I think about the
what. Training, coaching from a mental
health conversation perspective around connection.
We talk how that it's not just the words that you say, Like I
can teach you the perfect scriptto be able to allow someone to

(21:01):
open up about their depression. However, you could say those
words and they not open up and largely because the delta, the
missing magic, is the energy that you bring to those words.
That speaks more volumes becausewe're not just listening through
our ears, our brain has built-inbullshit detectors and all that
other stuff. So I think with regard to sex.
It's not just asking a female for consent if you're a male,

(21:25):
it's the tone and energy that you bring to that question.
If it's angry, if it's if you'recaught U in the moment because
your hormones are rushing to your genitals and you're really
horny. I think a man can maybe ask for
things in ways that are leading questions and they're not
leaving room for a true no if itneeds to be there.
And I think a lot of that's communicated in energy.

(21:47):
Like, no, I genuinely am OK withyour response.
And a woman will feel that more than they'll hear that.
Would you agree? Absolutely.
I can't Remember the percentage of how much communication is
nonverbal, you know, and how little is actually the words
that you choose and how most of it is, you know, the way in
which you say it, the posture ofyour body language, the
intensity of your gaze, all of that says a lot more than the

(22:09):
exact words you happen to chooseto phrase.
What you're saying and when is that sort of more felt in sex?
You know, the good and the bad. You know, an amazing eye contact
set, you know, can set the heartracing a great way, far more
than you know a certain word could.
So absolutely, I agree, it's theenergy of a person that often

(22:29):
makes you feel safe or unsafe. Yeah.
But I thought it was interesting, you talking about
this idea of being able to say no, because it's actually a
muscle that not that many peoplehave flexed during sex.
And so just practising how to actually do that is often a lot

(22:50):
harder than people realise. Like how to actually say to
someone, actually, no, I don't like that.
Or please slow down or, you know, I've changed my mind.
Can you touch me here instead? You know, those are muscles that
people haven't really used. You know, lots of people haven't
really used. And so that is often the first
step to get them to not just tolerate OK sex, but end up

(23:11):
getting amazing, perfect and, you know, incredible touch and
intimacy. 4 words you just said then that we just need to hear
her right now. I've changed my mind.
Huge because often we think so binary in every topic, let alone
sex and maybe a woman or a man, but particularly women might
feel almost pre committed if they say yes that they'll like

(23:36):
shit. I've already said yes.
Now I'm going to look like XYZ and I think it's totally OK to
say hey I've changed my mind. Just like how I thought that I
wanted a chocolate milk and now I want to kombucha.
You're allowed to change your mind, right?
And often we want to want something.
Yeah, right. Yeah, that sounds fun.
And then you start doing the funthing and you're like, you know
what? My body is just not playing ball

(23:57):
with me today. Yeah, you know, and we were
talking about this earlier. The interrelation between your
sex life, your mental health, your physical health, your
general self confidence, it's also related.
And often we think we can just snap our fingers and be like,
yeah, I'm in the mood for sex. I want sex, I'll have sex and
then our body doesn't. Isn't doing the thing that we

(24:18):
want it to. We stuck in our head.
We keeping thinking about work, you know, our bodies not
reacting the way that we want itto.
What's going on? I wanted this.
And it's often, you know, if you're very stressed at work,
your mental health's having a tough time, you haven't been
sleeping well, or there's all ofthese other things going on in
your life. We call them your breaks in the
sex education world rather than you accelerators, which are your

(24:40):
turn ONS. Those breaks often acting
without your even conscious awareness of them and make sex
and arousal and intimacy way harder.
So you might consent to something and go, yeah, let's do
it And you start it and you haveto go.
You know what? I wanted it.
But it's not happening. What are the two most common
breaks, and what are the two most common accelerators you

(25:01):
observe in? Most people just don't think
there's an answer. Yeah, and that's what's so
wonderful about human sexuality.It's so broad and so.
Diverse. And that's why it's so exciting.
It's so unique. You know it's that might you
know surprise you that people don't really think about you
know and people think of that cannons.

(25:21):
They think about you know thingsthat they enjoy their partner
doing or you know physical qualities they enjoy in someone
else or specific sex positions or sex acts as they don't really
think about the sort of bigger picture outside of all of those
things. Like do they like, you know for
example a huge break for a lot of people is being called a huge

(25:42):
accelerator is being warm because your body starts to
relax Or a big break for a lot of people is getting too in
their head that something or another.
And so big accelerator for a lotof people is putting on music
because it gives your brain something to focus on that isn't
all of your inner monologue and inner dialogue.
So I think that's the big thing is if you are thinking about

(26:03):
your breaks and accelerators go a lot bigger than just you know
the the here and now think more more macro, macro which way
round is it didn't bigger picture?
Yeah, macro. Because often, yeah, there's a
lot bigger things at play when it comes to why arousal, like
why something was extremely hot for you in one situation and why

(26:24):
it wasn't another. Yeah, well, I'm just taking a
moment to to let all that in andand know which way to go.
I think where I want to go with that is asking about.
When there is a break and you can sense it, how to best bring

(26:45):
that up with your partner where you know they're not feeling it,
you know you're not feeling it, or you know we're not feeling
it, where do you go from there? Sometimes it is as powerful to
voice it, you know, for example,the Breakers.
And sometimes it breaks. Really easy to fix, Really easy
to fix. It's like I'm cold.
I wear some sort out for 20 minutes.
I'm getting the heater. Or you know what I've been

(27:08):
thinking about the kids walking in, I'm just going to go lock
the door sometimes. It's a really simple, short fix
and then go back and voicing it is powerful.
If it's not a a quick fix or it takes a bit of discussion, you
know, for example, your partner's doing something and
for whatever reason that day it's just not doing it for you.

(27:29):
People are often quite nervous to say that because people get
very defensive, you know, because I have a lot of, you
know, if my partner says they don't like what I'm doing or ask
me to change what I'm doing, then it means that I'm bad and
bad or I'm doing something wrong.
And so the most powerful thing is just a normal nice, those

(27:49):
sorts of conversations. It's like that's not working for
me today. Can we try this or that was
great, Can can I now go down on you and I do something else?
And normalising that constant dialogue that sometimes needs to
happen, especially when there are a lot of breaks present.
Yeah, you know one of the biggest breaks I have noticed

(28:10):
even listening to friends and stuff talk about their
relationships. But I'm going to first person
this and say my sexual experiences is also.
The character trait headspace orrelationship dynamic that you're
in at that time and the theme that you're writing the charter
that you're writing at the time,like you know there could be a

(28:31):
charter where you're both reallyon the same page and emotionally
if you're really connected and physically you're you're healthy
at that time so you you your libido is higher and
everything's just working and. Again, I know that I'm kind of
going around this point a few times, but it's something that I

(28:52):
find to be really true, that I wish more men knew, which is the
racy. Crazy sex life that I think a
lot of guys envision, envision because they watch porn may or
may not be possible, but it's certainly going to be more
probable if you start with safety first.
Like going straight to that crazy sex life isn't usually

(29:14):
realistic nor healthy because a lot of women especially are
going to want to go via I'm OK here, so how how do you?
Well, first of all, would you agree that?
Excitement and exploration is best done from a base of safety,
yes, is the short answer. However, I also think that

(29:38):
inherently Eroticism thrives in the opposite in a many times.
Same way I'm super interested. Well, safety, comfort, security,
love, intimacy, often live in a separate camp to passion,
desire, excitement. And it's what a lot of long term

(29:59):
couples struggle with. Because when you start a
relationship, often there's a lot of the passion and the
excitement and there's not very much security.
You know, there's a lot of will they text me back?
Do they even like me? Will their mum hate me?
You know, what if we move in together and it's awful.
There's a lot of uncertainty, and that uncertainty actually
acts as a bit of a rocket fuel to sex and intimacy.

(30:24):
Often there's a sex therapist called Jack Moran who created a
formula for a human arousal, andhe said that arousal is
attraction plus obstacles like we need some form of tension or
novelty or newness for to have the hottest sex of our lives,
basically. And it's not a coincidence that

(30:44):
so many people's hottest sexual fantasies or best sexual
experiences were in this slightly Wilder early
relationship days or when thingsfelt you know, it's just so
spontaneous and they just rippedmy clothes off me and we did it
behind the car. We didn't care who saw you know
these sorts of stories or what comes up and the safety,
security, the love side of things.

(31:06):
The longer relationship goes on is what becomes more and more
embedded. We become more and more secure.
We get more and more, you know, secure in our future together.
Which is fantastic, but at the cost, often of the passion.
And that's what Esther Perel, who's an amazing sex therapist,
talks a lot about. Oh yeah.
Just about her. She's awesome.

(31:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So she talks about that a lot in
her book, Meeting in Captivity. Is this this polarity, I
suppose, of these two needs thatwe often have?
We want to be seen as these adventurous, passionate souls,
but we also want the security and the comfort of love.

(31:48):
I feel like sex life, the TV show was like, literally the
writer sat down and went, we aregoing to betray a woman
conflicted between security and excitement and see which wins.
Yeah, you you have to. And you could literally just
ride on that guy's forehead security like husband loving
finance dude with the kids. And then there was this.

(32:08):
Ironically, Australian musician fuck boy, ambivalent emotionally
distant guy. And she was doing and frying
between. Yeah and the where I got to with
that show as an example is I'm like, I don't think with enough
work you need to choose. I think that the goal and

(32:32):
hopefully realistic goal, whether that be monogamy or not,
ideally monogamy for a lot of people who are in this situation
would like to believe. And I I I hope that you can have
that excitement and you can havestability.
And I think the the point I was saying before I totally agree
with you that that obstacles andexcitement and spontaneity are

(32:53):
key. Like God, Yeah, yeah.
Accelerated for sure. The best sex I've ever had in my
life is the most passionate, themost charged, the least planned,
the least structured. But what I am saying just to tie
a loop on the previous before weget into the.
The split of the dichotomy. I think that a lot of people,

(33:15):
particularly men, I could be wrong, but they wanna go
straight there. Like on the second date they
want to fuck behind the car. And I think that it's in in my
mind, I just wish men knew more.You can get there for sure, but
you're going to get there betterif you go via Authentic safety
first. Would you agree with that?
Again, yes. But I also don't find it often

(33:37):
that helpful to generalise by gender.
A lot of women would love to fuck behind the car on the
second date as well, so I don't think it's often that helpful to
do gender generalisations. Gender generalisations,
especially when talking about a topic where it's so often been
generalised by gender. You know, the whole men are from
Mars, women are from Venus. Argument.

(34:01):
When actually a lot of these things that were saying you'd
have women listening and going, oh, I want that.
Or, you know, Yeah. And and same with men going, no,
I I really need safety. So I think it's more of a
question about people rather than men versus women.
It's like, what do people need? What do people want?
And yes, I think some people listening in would go, no, I'm,
I'm all for the sex behind the car on the second date.

(34:23):
Thanks. That's exciting.
And a lot of people would go, no, that is not me.
I need to feel safe. And for me, safety is knowing
that person X amount of time. So I do think it's so different
for everyone. And to your point earlier around
upbringing and attachments, art styles and all of that, if you
genuinely are someone that feelspretty safe in yourself and also

(34:47):
has a big value of courage in taking risks and those sorts of
things, you might be more likelyto put yourself into certain
situations where that does charge you up in an exciting way
and take more risks, you know, than other people who perhaps
value and need security more in order to feel safe in order to

(35:08):
get to that point. Yeah, I hear you and I totally,
totally get that. It's a very unique.
Being and is fully loaded with all the things you just said
like attachment. And I'd like to know what what
your view is on that. Like a this is a big one.
Do you believe in monogamy? And be do you believe that

(35:30):
excitement, passion, all the good stuff can stay with
stability and safety. So to answer your first
question, I think monogamy is a wonderful choice when it is a
choice. I think the problem with our
society is we present monogamy is the only option for a lot of

(35:51):
people. You're raised thinking that the
only way of having both a a stable life in the domestic
world that we painted is acceptable and appropriate.
You know, for all of these different reasons is monogamy.
And it isn't something which often people choose.
They just sort of find themselves within it and then

(36:12):
or, you know, don't know why they're unhappy or they can't,
you know, live a happy existencebecause they've sort of been
forced into a box which doesn't fit them.
So monogamy is a great choice ifit is the choice that you make.
But there's also so many other wonderful choices out there.
And I don't know if this is a very popular view, but it's a

(36:32):
view that I hold, so I'll share it anyway.
I sort of put sometimes your identity when it comes to
monogamy, polyamorous, open, fluid, monogamish on the same
kind of spectrum that people often put sexuality.
You know, it isn't something which is like, oh, I'm
polyamorous or monogamous. You know it's this whole world

(36:54):
in between and often you don't really know where you fit until
you've given other structures a bit of a go and try different
types of relating to people. And some people very much do
know what they are and like no, I know I identify as polyamory.
It's not as it's not a it's a choice.
It's who I am. It's a part of my identity as

(37:14):
other people are still exploringand still working it out.
And the problem, the only problem I have with monogamy is
that often robs people who wouldlove to do that exploring from
those options because they don'tknow that there are other
options out there. And then they resort to
unethical non monogamy, which isof course cheating, rather than

(37:35):
ethical non monogamy, which can be done really joyfully and with
every person's consent. So if you're not sure where you
fit, go and go and chat to some people who know more about these
topics than you do and hear fromthem.
Because again, a big issue I think, with all of this world is
there aren't that many voices and role models for other ways

(37:57):
of choosing to conduct your relationships.
And so we have to model them on just the successful or
unsuccessful monogamous relationships that we see.
I love. I love people who are real and I
love hearing statements like that from you which the way you
say it isn't charged. Like I can tell you've done a
lot of work to get to the point where you're at.

(38:18):
Because usually when we're defending a view that's non
traditional there's like a bite behind it.
Like I wish everyone could see my perspective because there's
still shame under there. But you you are so at peace with
your exploration of this subject.
It is truly commendable and I'm learning so much already, so
thank you for. For what we've spoken about and

(38:39):
what we will for, I'm gonna ask binary questions, not because I
believe in this approach to interviews or life, but I think
it's good fodder to help get to the place where we want to be,
which is an open discussion. What's the number one you're
going to say? There is none, but I'm going to
ask anyway. What's the number one thing that
you have seen to help Monogram that that enables monogamy to

(39:02):
work well? And what's the number one thing
you have seen that helps non monogamy work well?
Hmm. Can the answer be the same for
both? Yeah, I think it's
communication. Yeah.
Non-monogamous people are very good at it, often very good at
it, because they have to be, because there's a lot more
people to talk to. Ethical non monogamy.
Medical monogamy. Sorry.

(39:24):
So anyone who's tried ethical nonmonogamy open, relating in
any of its forms, you'd become apretty good communicator pretty
quickly, because you have to. There's a lot of different
people's options and opinions and time constraints and
different desires and life viewsand values and goals and dreams
to take into account. So before you know it, you're
talking a lot about all of thesethings.

(39:46):
And in monogamy, often people aren't as good as communicating
about all of those topics. And I think that is so often the
key for happy, ongoing long monogamous relationship is the
ability because ultimately 2 people if you're going to have a
long life together. Going to change a lot in that
lifetime. They go through lots of

(40:09):
different life stages and parts of themselves will come out that
they didn't expect, You know, through all of these different
life stages. And if you're going to stay
together, you're going to have to work out how to navigate not
just the people that you were when you met, but the people
that you'll continue to become. And you can't often do that
without a lot of compromise, a lot of work and a lot of

(40:29):
communication to work out what'sgoing on and have sort of State
of the Union conversations pretty regularly work out, are
we still happy? What's working?
What's not? How can we be better?
Yeah. And that's what I think a lot of
nonmonogamous people learn quiteearly, because there's more need
of it. Yeah, you're forced to
communicate well, Sorry, you're prompted to communicate more.

(40:50):
Yeah, more binary questions thatyou're going to hate.
Who was the number one? So if we say that communication
is probably the biggest breakdown in any relationship
type, what would you see? Is the biggest mistake, problem,
barrier within communication? That you see in relationship,
yeah, I think it's very easy to fall into sort of cycles of

(41:13):
communication styles with their partner, you know, for all sorts
of reasons. Someone becomes, you know, the
attacker. I say an inverted commas.
The person leaning forward and wanting to have a conversation
about a certain topic and the other partner comes the leaner
away at the person who gets put onto the defensive, the person
who feels like they have to defend themselves.

(41:34):
And falling into that cycle of, you know, criticism, defend,
criticism, defend, which is, youknow, a very unhealthy cycle to
fall into. And that's just one example of
the kinds of destructive cycles in communication style that can
really undo, undo a partnership.Because then these topics, these

(41:55):
areas of conflict, become stuck.You know, we can't move forward
on these topics anymore. Every time they come up, people
instantly go into that. That's that pattern of feeling
critical, criticised or feeling,you know, that your partner
doesn't care. Yeah.
So I think noticing those kinds of cycles or those topics that
cause you to go into an unhealthy, flooded state of

(42:17):
communication and where certain areas of conflict become stuck
and working out, OK, how do we, how do we unstick these these
areas? Because all couples will
disagree. You know, it's impossible to not
have areas of disagreement. Disagreements and conflicts are
not inherently unhealthy. What's in health unhealthy is
not being able to talk about themselves with empathy and

(42:40):
understanding and just wanting to hear and understand your
partner's perspective. It's not about, you know, fixing
the problem because often the problem can't be fixed.
You just have different politicsor you just have different
values. When it comes to money, often we
can't fix that problem, but we can hear and we can talk and we
can understand. And it is couples who can do

(43:00):
that really well that have more of a chance to to move forward.
Beautiful. What's the What do you think is
the most therapeutic or beneficial question you can ask
your partner? Hmm.
Can I bring it back to sex? Because it.
Really is true, Yeah. Couples counselling?
Yeah, absolutely. Makes sense.

(43:22):
I think when it comes to sex, the best thing you can ask,
well, a couple of things. One really easy thing that you
can do is to get into the habit of after any form of sex or
intimacy has turned around to each other and say what was your
favourite bit, you know, what was your highlight?
What did you enjoy about that? You know, because when I say to
people our communication is so important, talking about sex is

(43:44):
so important, this feels really difficult.
I can't can't do any of that. But you can definitely do this,
you know, and it will start the flow of conversation talking
about what turns you on, what turns you off, what you enjoy,
what you're curious about. To start there, you know, turn
to each other and go what is your favourite bit and start
asking open ended questions during sex as well.

(44:07):
So rather than saying things like does this feel good or do
you enjoy this where most peoplewill go, Yeah, you know, that is
telling you nothing. You're getting no information
there like start questions. It's actually giving you
information about that person and like, what they actually
enjoy, and that's the way you actually learn rather than.
Just interesting. So instead of does this feel

(44:28):
good? You might say, which part of
this feels good? Yeah.
Or how could I make this even better?
OK, you know, is it, is it hotter, faster or slower for
you? You know, Do you prefer it like
this, like this? Can you show me what you like?
You know, all of these sorts of things?
You're getting information as opposed to the cycle validation.

(44:48):
How does a person ask a questionwithout appearing like they're
giving away the lead? What do you mean give a H?
As in, they love to feel in control.
And they don't want to surrenderthat control but still get

(45:09):
information. That and.
I mean like the answer to everything, which is a balance
intuition rating. The moment I know that that's
going to be the answer. I guess I'm just.
I'm just walking down that path a little bit because there is a
balance sometimes between askinghow can I make this better?

(45:29):
And then again, I've had feedback in bed, which is like,
don't ask. I want you to take me.
Just do this. You know I'm only going to spank
you if you beg for it. Yeah, you know, you can still
seek consent from someone in a dominant way.
Yeah. They're both excites.
You both. You know, if you're someone that
loves to be in charge and there's someone that loves this
to be ravished and taken, yeah, you can still get consent in

(45:53):
that headspace. You just have to be a bit more
creative about it. Yeah, dominant questions.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, dominant consent.
Dominant constable. That's a cool Never heard that
before. I just made it up.
Yeah, we just got that IP booked.
And. And the the relationship between
mental health and sex must be, well, I I know is high, high,

(46:18):
but in your work must be quite high because it works kind of
two way. If you have depression in men,
you might be more likely to havelow libido for For women it
could be similar if you if if ifthey're anxious, they could see
a reduced libido. If you have PTSD, that brings
about a whole bunch of traumaticresponse, maybe in the bedroom.

(46:41):
And how do you work with mental health issues when you're
integrating sexual therapy? Absolutely.
So my work is trauma informed which, and what that means is
that if trauma does come up in session, I have the skills to
recognise it, to see it and to help that person ground and come
back to themselves. But at that point I would refer
them on to a sex therapist who has, who is a registered

(47:04):
psychologist. And so all of my work is forward
facing. It's not about unpacking trauma
and trying to work through traumatic experiences, as about
how to give people the educationand the tools and the skills
that they need to get a more happy and healthy relationship
with sex and intimacy again. But outside of, you know,

(47:26):
serious trauma like that, mentalhealth, emotional factors,
psychological factors, they always come into session.
You know, you can't talk about sex education without the whole
person coming into the room because these are topics that
are inherently emotional. And as you say, your mental
health, your physical health impact, your libido, your sex

(47:46):
drive, your relationship with your body, all of these things
are all in the same pot. You can't separate them.
And so it is just so individual depending on what where that
person is. You know, so often I work with
women who've never orgasmed and they just want to come and they
want a magic formula to how to have an orgasm.

(48:06):
And it's, you know, that's not how it works. 1st, I have to get
to know that person because what's causing someone not to be
able to have an orgasm? You know, might be OK.
You know, Have you heard of vibrators?
Have you heard of this stroke? You know, Yeah.
But for many people, it's becomean issue over years and years of
isolation and frustration and feeling broken.

(48:29):
And that is the work that we need to do.
First is how to make them have ahappy relationship with pleasure
again and not feel broken. So I can't even remember the
question was mental health and sex.
Yeah, it's it's impossible to separate.
Changing the relationship to pleasure.
You know that that really resonated with me again, based

(48:51):
on my mental health history directly related to sex versus
the sexual implications of a mental health condition and and
having friends who are. Sexual abuse survivors knowing
the work that they go through and and.
Choose to do in order to regain their pleasure.

(49:17):
It's it's incredibly tough for alot of people to to do that and
to allow themselves to feel thatagain.
And I'm not sure if you can share a story of hope for for
someone that's going through that around the client that's
anonymized, that has walked a similar path.
Yeah, absolutely. I do work with people who've had

(49:38):
really, really traumatic and complicated relationships with
intimacy and sex, you know, times in their lives and at ages
where they had no autonomy or control of what was happening to
them. And as I said before, I am not a
psychologist, so I do not work with them as they unpack and

(49:58):
explore all of those experiences.
But when they're at a state and at an ability to start wanting
to learn the tools for moving forward, I often work alongside
a registered psychologist who's seeing them for that support,
and then for me separately on giving them more explicit, also
how to feel safe in their body again.
So things like consent and teaching them how to say no, how

(50:23):
to say yes, how to slow down, how to ask for what they want,
how to, you know, feel for theirown boundaries and feel
confident in those boundaries again.
And slowly, slowly, slowly with.As we're talking about right at
the start of this, with this space of safety, they do start
to feel more at home in their own skins.

(50:45):
But it yeah, it's it's a it's a journey for sure.
And it's a journey that I only undertake with people when
they've also got a great supportnetwork around them, because
it's yeah, it's not a a a linearRd either.
Do you believe that if we can repair our relationship to

(51:06):
pleasure, we can live? A more erotic life.
Not just have a more erotic sex life.
Some of the sexual teachers I follow Esther Perrell, but
others and even in my degree. And spiritual leaders talk
about, you know, living erotically because so much of
nature is erotic if you look at it, and it's incredible.

(51:30):
And that orgasm and pleasure in a sexual domain doesn't
necessarily need to exist between two people, doesn't
necessarily need to be pertainedto sexual actions.
We can feel turned on by certainaspects of our life, just by
existing utterly. That's used on that, yeah,
you're talking to the beliefs and practises of thousands of

(51:54):
years of Tantra. Right, right, right.
Tantra is a spiritual practise. That is not it's only Neo Tantra
which is the focus in sexuality.But Tantra is a practise has
existed as a spiritual philosophy for much much longer.
And it is one of the only spiritual practises that
believes that sexuality is this inherent part of our life force

(52:17):
of what makes us human and what gives us energy and confidence.
And exactly what you're talking about is, is, is how you sort of
start to tap into that energy through Tantra.
And it's this little things. A lot of people who come to me
who feel like they've lost theirsex lives, their desire for sex,
their libido, they often talk about feeling I've lost a part

(52:39):
of themselves. And the idea of getting back to
sex is this huge chasm like thisis where I feel now.
And they use words like dead or numb or broken.
And you know, that erotic life force and sexuality so far away
from where I feel like I'm at now.
And so it's like, how do I get them to start to slowly take

(53:01):
those little stepping stones? It's often in really small
microdoses of pleasure. You know, it's doing a daily
pleasure practise. It's got nothing to do with
masturbation. It's about savouring anything
that feels good in your body. So instead of just having a hot
shower go and like massage that shampoo and your scalp and just
really appreciate the pleasure of that moment or you know,

(53:23):
savouring that chocolate you have Each night I do something.
A day that brings you pleasure, that awakens your 5 senses and
you'll start to notice pleasurable things again.
You'll recognise that your body can feel all of these amazing
sensations. And that is the same idea of can
you bring erotic energy into your life?

(53:44):
Yes. Yeah, you notice walking down
the street with the sun on your face when you've got that
vitality inside you, that's probably because an accelerator
is happening. Yeah, you're probably someone
that loves sunshine. You know, you talk about walking
down the street, and there are times when I'm like, what?
What's what's the matter? This is a dumb question.
What's the equivalent to a male pheromone?

(54:04):
Is there such a thing? I think they're the same.
OK, I think it's pheromones for everyone.
So there are sometimes when I'llbe walking down the street and
I'm like, damn, I've got my jacket on.
You know, the the, the, the metaphorical jacket where I'm
like, I don't know what I've done today, but I can feel I'm
on fire, they ovulate. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. The equivalent to where I'll be

(54:26):
getting a female gaze. And I can tell that it's that
type of gaze. And I'm like, yes, OK, what have
I done? I need to audit this shit and do
it everyday. Bottle then.
Yeah, exactly, exactly. I need to, like, rinse and
repeat this formula. And then there are other days
when I'm like, I should be wearing my pheromone jacket, but
I'm definitely not on today. Do you think that that's a

(54:47):
thing? Like we're feeling it sometimes.
We're getting lots of and. Is there a way to bottle that?
Ah, if only there was. I don't have an.
Answer. We would be millionaires in
millionaires, damn it. We need a bottle of famine.
Yeah, but also you need to recognise what is going on For
me in that moment, you know what, accelerators are present
and can I replicate some of these.

(55:07):
So a lot of people, you know, inin client sessions, I bring them
on a bit of a journey back. And when was the last time he
felt really sexually wearing a pheromone jacket?
Like what was going on for you? And a lot of people.
It's on holiday and it's like what?
All people have never had racismexcept for when they're on
holiday or they always have painful penetration, except for
one week of the year on holiday.And I'm like, well, what's

(55:29):
happening on holiday? And it's often because they
leave all of their breaks at home.
They're dirty laundry, you know,all of these stresses with work,
all of the brakes remain at home, and all of your
accelerators come on holiday with you, You know, wearing the
cute summer dresses, the salt spray on your skin, you know,
quality time with your partner, sunshine on your face, eating

(55:50):
and drinking great food. And before you know it, Gavin,
great pleasurable pain, free sex.
So I think sometimes when you'rewearing it, that firm and jacket
maybe just be like, all right, what has happened for me today?
Like, what is going on right now?
Like how can I channel some of that?
And I think it's to to the metaphor or story that you just

(56:12):
said. It's not just what's going on in
my life today or at the moment, as in I'm exercising, I'm even,
I'm on holiday. It's what that represents.
I am free. I am open.
I am abundant. I have a a positive and
optimistic outlook in life because sometimes it's well,
very often it's the vibration that you're putting out way more

(56:34):
than the physical attributes or the cognitive tick boxes that is
actually attracting people into your life.
You you're walking down that street with a spring in your
step and people can see it. And you know, often the person
that you are, when you think when was the last time they felt
really like sexually confident and free is the same person as,
you know, that person walking down the street or that that's

(56:55):
non holiday and it's because it's aligned to those values.
You know, it was when I was being courageous and spontaneous
and I wasn't scared of moving tothat other country.
When that was happening, I also felt really sexual, like they're
often the same person. They are.
And there's a word that sits under there for me, what I'm
hearing, and from the research that I can see in a lot of the

(57:17):
literature, the most the number one universal principle that is
deemed attractive, well at leastfrom women.
The men that I can read is confidence and I think
confidence comes. This is kind of a self
fulfilling cycle because when weour mental health is low
particularly if we're feeling depressed, confidence is the

(57:38):
fucking last thing we have. Yeah, there is a huge internal
self sabotaging narrative. And so to kind of claw that back
into like yourself again, let alone feel like you're hot or
lovable or can feel like a country mile away and.
Have you helped people climb outof that dark hole and get their

(57:58):
confidence back? Yeah, absolutely.
And again, it comes about all ofthat thing we're talking about
sexual shame, you know, body confidence or just confidence in
who you are in the bedroom with things like performance anxiety,
not feeling like, you know, a sexual person, a lot of people
don't feel like they deserve pleasure is what it comes down
to, you know? And after a few sessions, the

(58:19):
crux of it, the core of all of these different things gets down
to I'm not worthy of that. That's for other people.
That's not for me. And it's society.
Ohhhhh. You know, that's what we as a
society have created by the silencing, by the shame, by the
awkwardness is recreate all of these beautiful people who at

(58:40):
the heart of themselves don't feel like they deserve to
connect to others to feel good and pleasurable in their own
skins. And it's heartbreaking thing to
to see. And then, yeah, the journey to
to self confidence and self loveoften starts with just a bit of
neutrality. You know, I think that flip of

(59:00):
the coin of the body positive movement is it puts body
positivity on such a high, high plateau.
And people like, how could I ever get to body positivity?
You know, I loathe myself and it's like, well, that's not aim
for body positivity. Let's aim for body neutrality
first. You know, not hating your body,
but instead just. Accepting the skin that you find

(59:21):
yourself in is a lot more achievable for lots of people
love this idea of body positivity.
Um, that was something else I was going to say about that, but
I can't remember what it was. You're spitting out wisdom left,
right and centre, so we'll give you a pass on that one.
Let's talk about something that I hope is is a fun topic for a
lot of people, but it can be very unfun for a lot of people
because they don't feel like they can express it.

(59:45):
And that is the topic of fetish.Well, I love.
These, yeah. So not Colin unbuckled.
And I'm ready to rock'n'roll, nopun intended.
Strapped in. Before we get into the kind of
the nuts and bolts, I want to know this cycle.
Is there a psychology? Agreed.

(01:00:08):
Kind of philosophies to why fetishes exist or how they come
about. Cloud, take us back one step and
define the difference between kink and fetish first.
Yeah, because I think it's something which people don't
really think about. So kink.
Which is more common than a fetish is essentially anything
that makes sex more enjoyable and adds more erotic charge and

(01:00:30):
energy to the interaction. It's it's a step beyond like a
preference. So, you know, I might have a
preference for certain sex acts,but when I add a sort of kink to
it, it's like, oh, that makes itreally exciting.
So can I let's quiz me? So a preference might be I like
to be on top versus on the bottom and a kink would be I

(01:00:52):
want my hair pulled whilst I'm on top.
Yes. Is that right?
Yeah. Exactly.
And what's funny about kinks is it's so subjective because often
kinks have to be. And I'm saying it's an inverted
commas. It's a podcast so I can't use my
fingers, but normal, we've got cameras.
Not normal, And I hate ever using the word normal when it
comes to sex. But kink, the whole purpose of

(01:01:12):
it in some ways is subverting what's seen as normal.
But then what is normal? So some people might see anal as
a kink because they haven't, youknow, talked about.
Anal sex or been exposed to analsex with that many people.
So I go in all of it. Kinky.
Yeah. Whereas if you were very sex
positive person, you might just see anal sex as just another
preference. Yeah, I enjoy all I enjoy anal.

(01:01:33):
I, you know, it's not a kinky thing.
Got it. Same with, you know, toys.
Lots of people don't view toys as kinky.
Whereas, you know, if you asked your grandma, you might think
sex toys are kinky. So this idea of what is or is
not kinky is really different depending on what your standard
of normal is. And so normal.
Quite a lot of common kinks are things around.

(01:01:53):
Power. So that's where BDSM comes into
play. So that's bondage and
discipline, dominance and submission.
And say it is sadism and masochism.
So all of that is about exchangeof power.
So those are quite common case. So kink is often correlated with
power dynamics. Yeah, being in a position of a
being in a submission of and just before because I can't wait

(01:02:15):
to get the fetishes, because while we're on King, I've heard
of people who are in a position of power whose kink is to not be
in a position of power. Can you talk to me about why
that? Is so sex is essentially the
adult playground, right? It's the only place where it's
adults get to play. It's the only place we get to
step into different roles that we don't get to enact day to day

(01:02:40):
in our lives. And we can do that with consent
and playfulness and it could be very joyful.
And so for a lot of people, you know.
Power exchange or kink? Is this another form of play?
And if day to day I have to makeall of these hard decisions, I
have to always come from a placeof responsibility and power.

(01:03:00):
It's really fun to abandon some of that power abandonment of the
traditional. Kinds for some people, for other
people, it just might be a big part of who they are, and it's
always been a core part of theirEroticism during the.
Day. It doesn't matter what job they
came. They always been someone that
enjoys being submissive sexually.
And I'll talk to you more about the psychology of King

(01:03:21):
confederate in a minute because I know you wanna hear more about
it. Yeah, but also kinks could be
anything. You know, you could have a foot
kink you could have a lingerie kink.
You could have a, you know, tit kink.
But people don't really see thatas a kink because it's so
normalised enjoying boobs. So anything can be a kink for
you if it's adds a specific extra.

(01:03:43):
Charge of sexual enjoyment to sex.
Whereas A fetish is the most common definition of a fetish
that a lot of sex therapists talk about is the difference
between enjoying a kink and needing a fetish.
So people who have a fetish for something can only get aroused
and turned on if that fetish is either being fantasised about or

(01:04:06):
being acted upon. So it's less of a choice and it
and and a desire, and it's something which actually they
need in order to build. Vassal.
So that's pretty different greatexplanation.
Thank you. That's super duper helpful to as
a framework to view things through and let's use something
that could be on a spectrum. So feet very trending thing

(01:04:30):
might always have been that way but I feel like my Instagram is
there's like ads for maybe a Godwho knows what I'm clicking on.
As I'm saying this, I'm like I've I brought this on myself.
Well I shameless. I'm a big believer in not shame
or fetish. Sorry, not kink or fetish

(01:04:50):
shaming. I personally, no exactly.
I personally don't have a foot fetish.
However, I have seen ads for more and more.
There's like this Feat Finder app that some of the meme
accounts that I follow have beenposting and but so if we look at
something like Fate, it can movefrom a feature from a kink to a

(01:05:14):
fetish based on the explanation of a want Now as a need.
Given that that's such a popularised one, is there
something about the foot that the ancient Romans discovered
that just happened to be incredibly erotic that we don't
know about? Why?
It's funny, I can't remember whotold me this, another sex
educator. And so I haven't read the report
myself. So.

(01:05:35):
Don't quote me on this, but readsomething about why is foot
fetishes so common? And it was something around the
formative years of, you know, being a child and calling around
feet. And if someone, if you've got a
caregiver who maybe didn't pick you up that often, you know, the
feet become the part of the bodythat you see and you are

(01:05:58):
attached to. More interesting, who knows, who
knows? There's a really amazing I think
I already have quoted him once, so you know I'm not on
Commission. Jack Moran and he and his
amazing book The Erotic Mind, talks a lot about why we
developed the sexual preferencesthat we do.
And he talks a lot about the formative years in childhood,
being responsible for why you develop, and he calls it your

(01:06:21):
core erotic theme. So you're basically your sexual
blueprint, the what charges you up erotically.
And he basically creates this model where whatever you're
exposed to that perhaps wasn't the most pleasant.
Growing up, the mirror image of that almost becomes Eroticism.
So for example, if you're brought up in a very

(01:06:42):
conservative, rural abiding household, maybe strict
religious ethos, that sort of thing.
Your Eroticism might develop in a way that enjoys rule breaking.
It enjoys naughtiness. It enjoys confronting screws.
It enjoys that fear of almost getting caught.
And oh, there we got it. We've got an exhibitionist kink.
And you know, another example ischildren who, you know, don't

(01:07:06):
feel like they have a lot of control growing up.
And let's face it, what toddler has that much control and
autonomy? So, you know, any sort of child
could feel out of control growing up, and then your
Eroticism might form in a way that helps you.
We gained that control as an adult, and hey presto, you might
develop a kink for power exchange for either giving your

(01:07:26):
control over to someone with consent during sex and
submitting, or taking control with consent over someone during
sex and dominating. So it's a really interesting
book if you're interested in thepsychology of why kinks and
fetishes and Eroticism develops in different ways.
A lot of people don't like that concept of, you know.

(01:07:48):
Your traumatic experiences become your sexuality because I
think it's often welded as a bitof a a sword, especially in the
kink community of only people with traumatic experiences
becomes kinky, which is absolutely not true.
It's not people don't aren't kinky just because they're
trying to heal their past. For some people, absolutely be,

(01:08:10):
You know, BDSM and kink can be very healing, but it's not the
case for everyone. For some, it's just another fun
form of exploration. I think a lot of people would
feel reluctant to talk to their partner or sexual Voyager.

(01:08:31):
There we go, there's my IP. Sexual Voyager.
Voyager in crime about if they had a kink or a fetish.
Particularly if you're dating someone who you don't think is
more like aligned on that spectrum, how does the
conversation like that come up in a safe way that doesn't bring
shame? Especially with a fetish, you

(01:08:53):
know if it's something that you need to build arousal, you know
that's got to be a partner. You know it's pretty open minded
if they don't share that that preference at all to.
Have that conversation and navigate whether or not they can
both get a sexual needs met together.
But even just talking about kinks, yeah, there's a lot of

(01:09:14):
nervousness that would come up sharing, sharing your kinks,
especially if it sits further outside of what's deemed like a
normal king. And as you say, different kinks
are becoming more and more popularised, you know, through
porn and through 50 Shades of Grey and all other sorts of
mainstream media. But if you're being something
upping, I'm pretty sure none of you know this person, or none of

(01:09:35):
my. Tackle She had this kink with
me. It's pretty vulnerable.
It's a pretty vulnerable space to share that with someone.
And honesty. Honesty is the best policy, you
know. Waiting until a time where you
feel really close to that person, you feel safe with that
person to be that vulnerable with them and go with why it's

(01:09:57):
hard for you. You know you're not trying to
force them to, to share that kink with you.
They might be pretty surprised. And often people, when they're
surprised, act in a way that once they've had a few days to
think about it, they might act differently or respond
differently. So take a bit of kindness to
their shock. As well, sometimes they'll come
around and respond a bit differently, but.

(01:10:18):
If you're sharing this with a partner, don't expect them to
want to do it straight away, butinstead just focus on why it's
hot for you. Roger, you know I enjoy.
Dominance during sex. Because for me, XYZ, you know I
enjoy submission during sex, because for me it's all about
this feeling of exercise. So sharing the why helps to
bring in the safety of the what.Often cause it's not about

(01:10:39):
putting pressure on that person to enjoy it too.
It's like I just want to share why this is exciting for me
without trying to make you feel like pressure or obligation to
feel the same way. Rather than saying I like feet,
can I suck your toes? It's like I like feet.
For me, this is what's sexy about them.
For me, this is the sort of fantasy that I would have.
How do you asking? I'm not asking you for anything

(01:11:01):
or putting any expectations of you.
What do you feel about what I'vejust shared with you?
Do you have any questions, you know?
Could that be exciting for you? Could that be hot for you?
Could we find a world in which this could be a fun thing to do
together? How are we doing for time, by
the way? We need to wrap up.
OK, Damn it. I have so many more questions,

(01:11:24):
but I will wrap up. OK.
So I've covered a lot of what I want to to cover and I'm just
gonna ask you three final questions, if that's OK.
Um, what is? Sorry as we kind of bring this
journey home, unfortunately, because I've enjoyed this topic

(01:11:47):
a lot and if people want to keepin touch with you, how do they
find you online? So my Instagram is my main
social media platform. I'm Alice child official and my
website is Alice child-s.com dotAU.
Perfect. And what is one question you
wish I'd asked you, but I didn't?

(01:12:08):
Oh, we didn't talk about. Female sexual pleasure
responses, which I think is an area that not enough people know
about, like the clitoris, the internal clitoris.
And so my advice around if you are someone that owns a vulva or
you like to pleasure someone that owns a vulva and you don't

(01:12:29):
know enough about it, go and research some female pleasure
anatomy. What makes it pleasurable is
nothing to do with you know how what you can get that pussy
because you can always use greatloop and you should always be
using great loop. But what actually matters is
how. In gorged, you can get that
pussy because not many people know, but women get erections
too. But all of our erectile tissue,

(01:12:50):
or most of our erectile tissue, is under the surface of the
skin. The tip of the clitoris on the
outside of the body is just the tip of the iceberg.
There's a whole organ, a whole clitoris that lives inside the
body. That's between 7:00 and 11:00
centimetres big. And that is what needs to be
erect and engorged in order for penetration to feel pleasurable.
And it actually just takes a lotlonger than a penis takes to get

(01:13:12):
an erection. So I'm talking.
Twenty 30-40 minutes. So a lot of people rushed to
penetration way too quickly because they don't give their
body enough time to get engorged.
And so no wonder sex can feel painful or uncomfortable or just
a bit average. So yeah, Time engorgement.
Learn about female pleasure anatomy because oh really
changed the game in how you havesex.

(01:13:34):
If you ask someone with father or have sex with someone with a
vulva asking for a friend, wheredo we find more information
about? Follow me on Instagram.
Place to. Go and any sex positive
resources to be honest. You know any anyone who talks
about the clitoris getting clitoral ate, you know, getting

(01:13:54):
clitoris. Whole community.
Who are just, you know, fightingthe good fight.
Yeah, so you love it. We all exist.
Very cool. Yes, I'll definitely be reading
more and more of of your stuff to get educated.
What is a mantra that you live by and to your guidance before

(01:14:15):
let's keep it in your area whereyou feel most comfortable.
So what's a mantra that you liveby with regard to sexual
positivity? My mantra that I live by is
probably fear the fear and do itanyway, which is probably not
the best man for when it comes to sex.
You know more about why, though?Ah, you know, feel the fear and
do it anyway. It's all about pushing your

(01:14:36):
comfort zone and pushing past your.
You know boundaries, whereas I teach almost the opposite and
sex education, which is respect your boundaries and listen to
them and default to a no, not default to a yes.
The feeling, the fear and doing it anyway is probably a mantra
that might lead you to accidentally say yes to
something that maybe, in hindsight you wish you hadn't.

(01:14:57):
So how do we, how do we feel, feel the fear and do it anyway,
and also have correct boundariesand stay safe?
With good, safe words, but mainly with good embodiment,
good awareness of yourself. So being able to feel the fear,
the discomfort, you know, oh, I'm at the edge of my, you know,

(01:15:19):
at the edge of my comfort zone. That's often where the learning
is. That's where the excitement is.
It's called the resilient edge of resistance.
You know, it's not super comfortable, which can become
boring, but it's not so scary that I'm out of control.
That edge of comfort is where Eroticism thrives.
So feeling that fear, knowing you've got your safe word if if

(01:15:40):
you cross too far, knowing you'll be able to come back into
safety if you need to. Knowing yourself enough to play
in that space, so maybe it's feel the excitement and do it
anyway. Yeah, yeah.
But fear and excitement often feel the same in the body.
Yeah, that's that's true. And one question I wanted to

(01:16:00):
ask, which is something I didn'tlook back on at the very start,
which is you mentioned that the formula or a formula for
Eroticism and sexual satisfaction is attraction
multiplied by or via obstacles, what to obstacle that an adult

(01:16:21):
in a long term relationship might be able to implement in
order to reignite a spark. Yeah, it's all about knowing
your personal. Erotic formulate, not formula.
Sorry, let me say that again. It's all about knowing your
personal erotic theme. So whatever your obstacle is
that hyper charges your sex drive will be different

(01:16:41):
depending on your upbringing andyour turn ONS and your turnoffs.
So a great example is what I wastalking about earlier.
If you know that you're someone that loves the taboo, you love
breaking rules. Those are the sorts of obstacles
that you would bring into your relationship.
If you're someone that you know love anticipation, you know you
love teasing. You know you love yearning.
And longing, you'd bring that into your relationship.

(01:17:03):
So a good example of that is instead of just being like, hey
sweetie, let's do date night, it's like you, me, Friday night,
this dress, I'm telling you nothing else.
You know, that's different. It's taking the comfort and the
the everyday and turning it intothe excitement.
It's adding an obstacle, it's adding uncertainty, it's adding
anticipation. So it doesn't have to be unsafe,

(01:17:24):
these obstacles, but it's lighting the match under your
personal Eroticism. Beautiful.
Thank you so much for an incredible discussion.
It's been an honour to have you here.
Alice, it's been so much fun. Thank you for having me.
The pleasure.