Milly Bannister: has Gen Z gone too far?

In episode 43, Mitch Wallis speaks to Milly. From lifestyle journalism in Silicon Valley to youth mental health charity founder, Milly Bannister is a well-known face in the online world of wellbeing. We discuss everything from the trivial use of mental health language on social media to the power of educational peer support programs in schools. This episode covers:

• Milly's personal journey with mental health and maintaining authenticity in an online world
• Addressing the generational gaps in our willingness to talk about mental health
• Attention, misinformation or a cry for help? Why younger generations trivialise mental health language
• Is social media helping or hurting our knowledge about mental health?
• Founding ALLKND with the mission to provide young people with this missing mental health literacy

Check-out ALLKND:

www.allknd.org

Stay connected:

www.millybannister.com

www.instagram.com/millyrosebannister

www.instagram.com/mitch.wallis

Have feedback to share, questions you want answered or guests you want to see on the show? Get in touch: [e-mail]

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome back to the show You Beautiful animals.
Today I would like to introduce to you the amazing Millie Rose
Bannister. From lifestyle journalism in
Silicon Valley to youth mental health charity founder, Millie
is a well known face in the online world of well being.
Her charity, All Kind is Australia's first digital peer

(00:23):
to peer mental health first aid training for young people and
she runs mental health campaignsto raise awareness and reduce
stigma. Really is a really purpose
driven creative director and speaker, passionate about using
stories to foster connection andhelp make meaning from her life.
I'm really excited because in today's episode I'm talking to a

(00:45):
charity founder, which can be a lonely Rd at times.
And I think we cover some of that in a really meaningful,
constructive way. And we also go deep into what
her truth is, what her core values are, and also the things
she does to prevent and maintaina sense of mental health.

(01:06):
One discussion I found, I mean selfishly very interesting, is
how do we create the altitude where mental health is a topic
that's not rigidly silent and shut down like potentially
happens in older generations or what I believe is happening.
And overcompensation of mental health in younger generations at

(01:30):
times where we're almost desensitising the message and in
some ways token mystically giving mental health labels to
drive attention or identity. Now, of course, I don't mean
that for all people by any means.
And this is coming from a guy that has experienced extreme
mental illness since a young ageand is a huge proponent, in fact

(01:54):
devoting my life to getting people to speak up and seek
help. And with Millie working with so
many young people, I asked her some of those questions on how
we can find that middle ground in regard to stigma and the
level of conversation we're having so that it's productive
and genuine. So without further ado
introducing to you Millie Bannister, well, one thing I

(02:20):
appreciate about you, Millie, isthat you lean into authenticity.
Like, there's a lot of people inthis space that kind of toe a
mental health line. Yeah.
And they're like, everything's fine.
I'm like, yeah, but you keep it very real.
And I think you're speaking to ademographic that needs our help

(02:43):
the most, like young people. So what is what are you at the
top two values in your life thatyou live by?
That's a nice question to start with.
I would probably place family pretty high up on my value list.
Um. Mainly because.

(03:05):
They are making up the majority of my support network and I
think when you get to that pointof.
Preventatively or proactively looking after your mental well
being, you are identifying not just who's closest to you, but
who can back you when you need it most, and also who is good at

(03:31):
it as well, because not everyonehas the capacity to support you.
And that's fine. It might not always be that way.
People go through things themselves, so you can't always
expect the same people to back you, but I would probably argue
that if you have a really strongconnection.
With your family members. I'd say that they know you the

(03:52):
best as well, and I'm privilegedin the fact that I feel
connected and supported by my family, because that's not
always the case either. But that's why I would place
family at the top of my values list.
Second to that would probably befreedom.
Um, I'm a Sagittarius if that isrelevant to anyone.

(04:15):
I don't know a lot about star signs, but I do know that it
means that I really value freedom.
Not just location wise as in travel, but in my location.
Freedom of where I work every day, being able to choose
whether or not I go to the office at a specific time, or I
stay home or I work from a cafe.Um, financial freedom as well is

(04:41):
something that I'm constantly aiming for.
And also location freedom. I honestly, personally can't
think of anything worse than being tied to one specific desk
9:00 to 5:00 Monday to Friday. That really sends me into
discomfort for a number of reasons, but mostly because I
value freedom so, so much. So all of those things combined

(05:04):
into what that value looks like for me.
Yeah. Kim is such a a potent word.
I feel like it's supercharged inthat it evokes such a expansive
energy, at least when when I think about it.
And I mean the opposite to that is, is discomfort and trapped.
Do you remember a time in your childhood where you felt

(05:27):
trapped? Um.
Nothing specific comes to mind, although speaking back to the
way I live my life now in terms of what I do for a career and
the way I shape my lifestyle. I do remember and I brought this
up with my mum the other day when I was visiting her in
Brisbane. I was in the car park with her

(05:50):
loading groceries and I was in the middle of a three month
stint working for Kmart as a 1516 year old and I absolutely
hated it for so many reasons. That had a really awful boss
and. We had some challenges around me

(06:11):
requesting time off for my mom'sbirthday and it just became this
whole thing and I just hated how.
Or the lack of control that I had over a situation like that.
And I remember saying to my mum as we were loading the
groceries, I don't know how I'm going to work as an adult for a

(06:31):
company or for a person that doesn't let me do the things
that matter to me. Like again, that came back to my
top value of wanting to be thereand spend time with my family on
my mum's birthday. But they wouldn't let me and I
had such a visceral response to that.
To the point where I was like, Idon't know how I'm going to
adult because if I can't work, if I can't work for someone, how

(06:54):
am I supposed to earn money? Yeah.
And of course, Mum's thinking was along the same lines.
Well, unfortunately, Millie, that is the way the world works.
You're going to have to work. And I was in tears.
I was 15 or 16 crying about working at Kmart like it just on
the outside looking in it. It's it's hilarious.
And, you know, my mom kind of had that really surface level

(07:14):
response as well. Totally fair.
But for me, it was so much deeper than that because I felt
so trapped. Yeah, so independence is kind of
coexisting with freedom for you.And it's it's already been a
couple times since you since we started talking, that you've
mentioned your mom. And I can relate to that as
someone who looks at my mom as the reason I'm still alive, as a

(07:37):
support system. At what age did she start
supporting you When? With your own like mental health
issues. I think she's been ever present
in my. Mental health journey.
I don't think she's always been,you know, the very best support
for me. I think a lot of the time I went

(07:59):
to my friends, which is something I'm sure we'll touch
on later in the episode. I mean, that's pretty common,
but I think her and I might havedifferent ways of looking at
mental illness, probably becausewe don't experience mental
illness the same. And that's very normal as well.

(08:21):
Not just for family, but for friends.
And even in the therapy space, often it's hard to relate to a
patient or to a therapist, because at the end of the day,
lived experience is the only waythat we can feel what it's like
to be in someone else's head. But she's always just been, um,
as I said, ever present and someone that was never not there

(08:46):
for me. And she's done the best she
could as well. So do you think that throughout
the shortcomings that any parenthas, the thing that has helped
you the most is her presence? And I'm assuming that means
emotional presence, not just physical presence, the
willingness to feel with you. Yeah, exactly.
Right. Yeah.

(09:08):
An interesting side note on thatsomething that I really.
Resonated with was I was watching one of Brene Brown's.
She has some new videos on some streaming platform.
But she was talking about how parents often like to go into
their child's dark room, where they're kind of moping or

(09:30):
grieving or, you know. Avoiding.
And they want to go in and they want to turn the light on
immediately. But she was saying that the
better thing to do is to go in and sit with your child in the
dark and teach them how to feel their feelings and go through
those emotions and process them.And then you can turn the light
on and you can face things together.

(09:51):
And that's something my mom has always done for me.
She's kind of had or held space for me to, you know, grieve and
avoid. But she's also then backed it up
with the action. Step It's not just like, OK, I
just want to be heard and I wantto just, you know, sulk and and

(10:12):
grieve. I also want some ideas around
how I can feel better, which usually requires some form of
action. And she's been really good at
holding space for both. Yeah, the parents empowering
children to feel their feelings,not just solve the problem, is
so key because there's no amountof problem solving that can

(10:32):
outrun a feeling in my experience.
So you just got to get really fucking good at processing them,
Yeah? Now talk to me about your
feelings. When when did you start to
experience mental health issues?Honestly, probably in hindsight,
since I was a kid, I'd say I think.

(10:55):
You'd probably label me as a warrior.
A kid who was always kind of a little anxious, but that really
manifested in high school when the pressure started coming in.
In terms of academic, I was involved in a bunch of Co

(11:15):
curricula, sports and arts and things like that, friendship
circles and how they manifested and you know boyfriends and
things like that kind of it all piles on and the pressure builds
and you start to kind of face that feeling of overwhelm.
And so my anxiety really manifested then.
Whenever I present a a pitch or a brand narrative around the

(11:41):
charity that I started, which focuses on peer to peer mental
health support, I always touch on my kind of first experience
with anxiety and depression. At the time, I was supporting my
closest friend through a very, very dark period when they lost
their sibling and I was that person that they went to.

(12:05):
For that kind of emotional support, for a variety of
reasons, But I then. Took on this enormous kind of
mental load and emotional load that really felt quite
suffocating and so the anxiety built.
It was probably already there, but the.

(12:28):
There was a lot of manifestationof symptoms around anxiety and
it was probably the first time that I noticed the experience of
depression as well. I experienced both.
Hereditary and situational depression.
I think most of us will experience situational
depression at some point in our lives.

(12:51):
COVID was a great example of that, of what that felt like.
But hereditarily, it means that even when you're in a peak of
your life, you can also be experiencing the manifestation
of depression. And so I live with both of those
conditions. I'm medicated.

(13:13):
Stable and neutral, and it's brought me up to this baseline
where I can then strive to. Turn my lifestyle factors into.
Well being in. Yeah, moments of happiness and
well being. Whereas if you don't have that

(13:34):
baseline, kind of. Balance and You are experiencing
mental health disorders without any form of support.
It's so much harder to reach those highs, 100% agree.
As someone who also unfortunately happens to know
what it's like to be anxious anddepressed, having a baseline to

(13:57):
stand on is like, is a bit of a privilege.
Like I always say to people, if you have peace, you have
everything. Because there would be a million
times in my life when I was not OK that I would think to myself,
I would trade every single thingI have right now to exhale.

(14:18):
Just to sit there, drink your coffee, stare at something and
go like everything. Yeah, I didn't need anything
except that exhale and I just itfelt 1,000,000 miles away.
And now that there's a platform to stand on and then some, I'm

(14:39):
like, holy fuck, this is all onebig bonus.
Can you take me back to a momentwhere you felt like peace was
out of reach? Like a memory that has really
stuck with you and being like, fuck, I'm at an all time low.
Yeah, I would. Apart from that experience that
I've just spoken about when I was in high school around 16,

(14:59):
and my first experience with mental illness, it actually
wasn't too long ago. It was during COVID.
It was 2021. I was living.
Near my parents with my partner at the time, and we're going in
and out of lockdowns and I was unhappy in the relationship.

(15:20):
I was unhappy with where I lived.
There were so many lifestyle factors that were far from
ideal. Although I was safe, my
hierarchy of needs was mostly met.
But there was that second half that made me feel trapped, I
guess, and I wasn't living in line with my values.
And so I also chose that time tosee if I could come off the

(15:45):
medication that I'd been on for 10 years.
I can't really remember why. I just kind of wanted, I guess,
to see, yeah, how I felt withoutthem and when myself off with
the advice of a doctor and I felt fine.
I was also facing a lot of fatigue.
So I was trying to experiment with different changes to see

(16:08):
what could work for me. And it did.
For a couple months my fatigue lifted a little bit, but then I
kind of hit this wall and I wentdownhill really, really quickly.
And within a couple of weeks after that, I was on the floor
of my bathroom calling Lifeline.I had nothing left and nobody

(16:32):
knew. I think also at that time it
felt like there were a lot of conversations about mental
health, but there was also a lotof suffering, comparison as
well. And I was safe.
I was in a state where we were locked down, I had kept my job,
I had my parents around the corner, I was in a relationship.

(16:52):
All of these things. I think that gets in your head
as well when you're feeling really hopeless, even though you
have nothing left as I guess a people please are.
I still have this part of me that was like, I'm not suffering
enough. Like I don't deserve support
right now because there's obviously something broken in me

(17:16):
that nobody will understand. My parents love me so much.
I have amazing friends that I can call at any minute of any
day, but. It's also an what it feels like
in that moment is an admission of defeat as well.
I think especially during that time because everyone's rallying
together going we have to get through this.

(17:37):
And I couldn't get through it. And I don't think it was even
COVID related. I think it was just lifestyle
related because of all of the things that were going on.
So yeah, I often look back at that time and I kind of have,
you know, these. It's been 2 1/2 years now since
that moment, and I can remember it's obvious really, because it.
Felt so painful. Hmm.

(17:59):
But it's also a marker in time Iguess, and a reminder every year
from that date. Where I can look back at the
difference in myself, um. I think you've also got to be
careful with comparing yourself at your very, very most lowest

(18:20):
to where you are now, because you can end up back there.
You can always end up back there.
But I think there's a number of things that I've learned from
how that situation came about that I would take with me and
use to not let myself get back into that situation.
Tell me three of those learnings.

(18:41):
I would say not compromising on your values.
Obviously the freedom thing cameinto it with COVID.
I also wasn't with the right partner, and I knew that, and
that was a contributor to my mental unwellness.
And I've been single since because I'm too scared to end up
in that headspace. Great person, great human, just

(19:04):
not for me. And I knew that, and that's very
hard for me to sit within my gut.
My gut feelings are extremely loud and disruptive, and they
manifest physically, and that contributed greatly to my.
On Wellness. The other thing I think would be
how much exercise has changed mylife since then.

(19:25):
It doesn't even have to be labelled exercise, just movement
in general. Since then, I've started
running, I've gone back to yoga,I've gone back to ballet before.
Yeah, I started playing tennis. Honestly, anything that brings
me joy, it's it's taken a littlewhile, but I think moving my
body in more enjoyable ways has meant that.

(19:48):
My mind body connection. Has been a lot stronger and I've
kind of, I guess, stopped dissociating and separating
myself from who I am physically on this earth and who I am
spiritually, spiritually and emotionally and mentally and
connected the two and just become a lot more grounded and

(20:08):
happier in who I am. Literally.
Grounding into who you are is fucking powerful.
Nice, yeah? Yeah.
To to relate to that, I spent most of my life dissociating
from who I was, including my body, because I wanted to be
anywhere but me, in myself, in my own head.

(20:34):
And I I do agree that it is. It's scary to know that we can
go back there. It's also awesome to know that
there are some things that come out of those deep, dark holes
that no one can ever take away from you.
And I do believe that you can fall back into that hole.

(20:54):
But I don't think you can ever go as deep if you integrate
those experiences in the right way, with the right learnings
and the right tools. Because once you're down there,
you're like, Oh yeah, motherfuckers, I know you like.
I know these premises. I know where not to step and I
think people like you inspire mebecause you go to pay it forward

(21:20):
you know and and you devote youryour life to this particularly
something I'm envious of which Idon't do enough of.
I want to do more of, is workingwith young people and Lord knows
we need it. Now more than ever.
I wanna talk to about young people in a way that feels maybe

(21:41):
negative, but I don't want it tobe negative.
I want to shift my perception onit.
But part of me thinks that our generation, you're probably
younger than me, you look more youthful than me.
But I'm just going to say our hoping that I look as good as
you for whatever age you are. But there's the generation above

(22:03):
that is rigid and shut down to amental health message.
I think our generation is doing a good job at finding a middle
ground. We're not there yet.
But the younger generation? I feel 4 because they're the
loneliest generation, most competitive because of the
social media experience and thatplace can be a toxic rabbit

(22:25):
hole. But I do see a trend where
mental health is being used as abit of a badge of honour and
attention seeking. And whenever I hear words on
Instagram like Mentee Bay, like mental breakdown, or I'm so

(22:46):
triggered and I'm like, I'm so OCD, I'm so and I'm like, I've
almost gone into a psychosis because of OCD.
Yeah. And it's not a Mentv and it's
not triggered. It is.
I wanna blow my brains out. So what do we do to help inspire

(23:06):
a generation that is lonely? And I by no means my discounting
that. There's a tonne of people in the
younger generation that is genuinely hurting, but not to
the point where we trivialise itas something to give us a sense
of identity. I.
I think it's our fault, honestly.
Yeah, same more. I think.

(23:29):
I don't think we're providing enough educational opportunities
that are integrated or mandatoryor engaging.
I think as someone who. Quite possibly used to throw
around those words. Um.
Now is much more careful becausethey have the education, and

(23:50):
with education comes understanding and compassion.
So for example, using the word OCD to describe yourself being
overly clean is something that I've definitely done in the
past. But now learning about the
condition is something that I would never do again and I.

(24:11):
Genuinely believe that majority of Genzi or that demographic,
having had that education, wouldalso agree with that behavioural
choice or improvement. I don't think we're giving them
enough language and framework toaccurately describe their

(24:32):
conditions and their mental illness and.
The way that they're struggling,um, I think if they had the
right language it might not appear so much and it wouldn't
be so flippantly used. That may be because that's.

(24:53):
Basically, my entire mission with the charity that I run is
to simply educate young people to be able to support their
mates safely. And a byproduct of that is
cultivating compassion, because the more you know about mental
health conditions, the more careful you're going to be about

(25:15):
upsetting people with those conditions because you know how
hard they can be to live with. Um, yeah.
It's a tricky one. I think they are potentially the
most compassionate generation. I really love working with them.

(25:35):
We have a youth board. Of advisors we call them and we
kind of bring monthly themes to them, say for example Pride
Month. And we bring these themes to
them as individuals, as about 10of them from around Australia
who have different. Lenses and experiences through

(25:56):
which they. Apply our prompts and they bring
this real world or real time on the ground touch point from the
demographic we're aiming to serve.
And they bring with them their current struggles, what their
friends are talking about at school or at work, what they've

(26:18):
seen on social media on their feeds.
And that is really helpful. Because it is.
It's different. I I really do think it's
different. Technically, I'm on the border
of Gen Z and Millennial, but I. Definitely feel a lot more
aligned with millennial Gen thanI do with Gen ZI think because
I. Was lucky enough to miss that

(26:41):
high school experience where we were on social media.
I think at the very most we might have had Facebook and
Messenger or something, but. I I think our brains are wired a
little differently. So I think to answer your
question, I really do feel like it's a lack of education.
Because the ones or most of the people who are using these

(27:04):
phrases are probably trying to connect with other people in the
mental health community or trying to start conversations,
whether they know it or not around mental health, because
they probably want to feel less.Alone.
But again, I don't think they have the right framework or

(27:25):
language to be able to do it appropriately, given that you
have such incredible access to kind of ease on the ground.
What do you think of the three main issues facing young people
at the moment that's hurting their mental health?
I would happily tie all those three issues into screen time

(27:48):
addiction. Yeah.
I think it has completely infiltrated the way our brains
are developing and facilitate the way that we make choices and
live our lives every single day,I don't think.
Many of us are immune to screen time addiction.

(28:08):
I think even most of us who are quite cognizant of the amount of
time we're spending looking at screens are still somewhat
addicted to using our phones andour laptops and social media and
they would comes with it. They wouldn't say that.
Like if you were to ask, hey heygroup of young people, what's

(28:29):
your biggest problems? They wouldn't say I'm addicted
to screens, would they? No, I don't think many of them
locations of that. Exactly, yeah.
The cause and effect and the implications of screen time
addiction is the over consumption of information is
the overwhelm. It's the time spent on social

(28:49):
media. It's all just feeding back into,
yeah, the the dopamine addictionas well and the way our brains
operate. And it's simply all far too much
information to try and comprehend.
And it's not. It's not our fault.
It's not their fault. It's not at all.
We know for a fact that not justour apps like Instagram, but our

(29:14):
phones, the way notifications show up, all of that has been
built. With.
Borrowing from behavioural psychology, it's not our fault.
It was designed to keep us addicted.
And so it's kind of this never ending loop.
It's like yeah, we can be aware of it.

(29:34):
We can be self aware, we can setour boundaries and we can you
know, do self care and all of these kind of really surface
level ideas around how we manageour relationship with the
Internet. But at the end of the day, even
sitting here as two people who do this for a living.
And his stories every day and have access to experts.

(29:55):
We're not immune either. I often throw around the excuse
that, Oh well, it's my job. I'm tied to the Internet, I have
to show up, I have to be there, I have to run this organisation.
But there's so much time during the week where I just really
unconsciously. Open my phone and scroll in the
interact. I even get into that freeze

(30:18):
state where I'm immobilised, where I'm just completely
overwhelmed. It's potentially a stress
response to the overconsumption of information.
I'm just frozen and I'm like, I need to get off, but I actually
can't. I'm not sure what's wrong with
me and I would argue, Yep, I would argue that's a really,
really common experience. It is.
And you know I I go to if that is what's happening, where

(30:42):
trying to escape into a dopaminehere And then yes, it's like
that by design. I wonder what what we're running
from Like, is it is it just thatwe didn't have something that
was so easy to run toward before?
Like, you know, the distraction and escapism wasn't available in

(31:04):
your pocket at all points in time and you had to physically
go out and like go to a park or go to a bar in order to be
stimulated. And now it's all around us?
Or are we in a lost generation that is needs to run from
something more? Maybe it's a mixture of both?
Yeah, I think it is a mix of both.

(31:25):
I think it's a mixture of. Where being pulled towards
something very, very strongly. Not just with that behavioural
psychology and the decisions around how apps show up on your
phone and how they keep you on there and and the FOMO that it
creates when you're off. Like how many times do you get a
notification and you just reallyreally feel this strong need to

(31:50):
go and check what it is. But I also think it's the
running from as well. I think when I.
Was younger, and I've chatted about this with my therapist
really recently because she and I were touching on the fact that
I find it really hard to sit still and I'm extremely avoidant
of boredom. I have always been avoidant of

(32:12):
boredom, and I've tried to figure out for so long what that
brings up in me as this stress response, because boredom is
some people's dream. They love to just have nothing
on their mind and just kind of sit still and in the sun and
read a book or whatever it is. And I'm slowly learning to
really, really enjoy those things.

(32:34):
But it took me so long to try and figure that out, and I still
haven't figured it out. But I do think it might be
connected to when I was a kid and I would spend time alone in
my room. It was usually when I or as a
result of some sort of episode of not doing something right or

(32:54):
either. A response from my parents
around Oh no, you you shouldn't be doing that.
Go sit in your room. You shouldn't be mean to your
brother. Whatever.
Or it might be a self induced flagellation around You didn't
do well enough on your maths exam.
It's so incredibly disappointing.
Take myself to my room, go sit there.
But as a young person I didn't learn.

(33:16):
I know I touched on my mom trying to teach me how to
process my emotions, but I oftenthink as parents it's really
hard to watch your kids process emotions as well.
So a lot of the time it's it's hurried, it's like.
OK, I see you crying, but I don't want to see you crying.
I want you to feel better. So let's go to the shops and get
some ice cream. And so I don't think, and it's
also something that probably wasn't in the parenting books

(33:38):
either back then. So I don't think I ever learnt
to sit with my emotions or to process my emotions.
And so for me, I associate sitting alone in my room doing
nothing because I didn't have myphone back then.
It didn't exist. I associate that with this fear
of my feelings and this fear of my own mind.
And for some reason, it just feels like a really scary place.

(34:01):
But. I think when you learn or you
start to learn how to tackle negative emotions and you start
to tackle processing negative feelings, you can kind of live
your life not in fear of those feelings or emotions.
You can you can learn to processthem and face them on your own
sitting in a room and then it just doesn't become so scary.

(34:22):
But I find myself all the time if I'm feeling really low.
I will go straight to Instagram or TikTok.
A mixture of self validation, like I might post something on
there or I'll just scroll and see what other people are up to
or send memes to people and facilitate some sort of peer to

(34:43):
peer connection. It's a mixture of all of those
things. So I think there's a lot of pull
pulling us to our phones and ourfavourite apps, but I also think
there's a lot of avoiding going on as well because we just, we
don't have the capacity to be bored anymore.
No, we don't. And I wonder if there's a,
there's something to be learned with sitting in boredom.

(35:06):
And I would imagine so given that what will come up is
whatever you've been pushing to the bottom.
Yeah, you know, with noise, withapps.
And in my experience even thoughthat sucks.
So you'd say, well, just leave it at the bottom, just keep
distracting, right. The the problem is, is that you

(35:29):
can't outrun feelings as I I tried and there's not enough
distractions in the world. Like I went, I got probably 20
years wow before it caught up. But I do believe that one day it
will catch you if you don't stopnow and learn to face the music
of whatever you don't want to feel.

(35:51):
Yeah, and I also think it's really shitty to have to live
your life avoiding your feelings, because that means
you're avoiding certain situations, certain people,
certain jobs that could potentially make you happy, and
so having. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. By avoiding.
That discomfort you're also discounting yourself all of

(36:12):
these amazing experiences as well.
And it also means that somethingelse is controlling your life
and you're not in control of your life.
Hmm. Nodding control of your life.
Yeah, I don't. I I don't know if a lot of
people feel in control of their.Life.
No, no. I think it's extremely difficult
to get to the point. Of feeling like you're past all

(36:35):
of that discomfort. How?
How do you feel in control of your life?
What do you do? I think I genuinely feel quite
in control of my life, and I don't know if this is healthy
control or not, because I think at some point you have to learn
to let go of things, and I thinkthat piece you were describing
before borrows a lot from letting go.

(36:59):
But I think I'm at a period in my life where I don't hold a lot
of power. Just as an example, I recently
on Monday this week got kicked out of my apartment by merit and
these. Conglomerate.
Yeah. Landlords.
Assholes. Yeah.
And I felt so much. Lack of power and inferiority.

(37:24):
And I was just so frustrated at how little I felt and how small
I felt. And so at this point in my life
I don't have huge resources to fight situations like this that
come up. My only choice now is for my
basic survival is to find other shelter and I don't have the

(37:44):
resources to go purchase a home or to move into something.
You know, around the corner I have to kind of dig a little
deeper and it takes a little more time.
So I definitely feel like there's a lot of my life given
my maybe age and the fact that II don't have a tonne of
resources yet, like financially,the people, I don't have a

(38:08):
partner yet. But there is a lot in my life
that I do feel control over, andthat would probably be what I do
for a living. And I think that kind of gives
me some power back because, likeI said, I can live where I want.
I can travel if I want, I can show up to my desk whenever I
want, or not at all if I don't want to.

(38:31):
I think that's a really powerfulthing because we're all guilty
of architecting our life in a certain way based on really core
needs. You know, we started the whole
interview with freedom, you know, and and family.
So we go along and we make conscious decisions to try and
accommodate our needs. And then sometimes, well, most

(38:56):
of the time needs require sacrifice.
You need to trade stuff off in order to hit something.
So you've consciously traded a bunch of stuff off to make sure
that you're free, close to family and I would say closely
followed by I want to be in service.
You've created a charity, you'vedevoted your life to this and
you've become an entrepreneur, avery fucking tough journey in

(39:17):
order to get those needs met. Now the consequence of that is
that some of the other more traditional needs such as the
financial security and the finding a partner, etcetera, One
side of you might internally be like look at this, you failed.
You don't have power here. But there's this other side of
you that you've been listening to this whole time because it

(39:38):
has been saying you have to hit these needs because they're so
important. More important, Yeah.
And. And I think it's a sequencing
thing. And in these moments in
Crossroads, we have a choice, right, to look like, I've failed
because they don't have this or or I've succeeded because I've
got my corneas, man. Yeah.
And those needs that are obviously secondary because I've

(39:58):
designed my life like this will be met.
I just need to do them next, youknow?
Exactly. That's not to diminish or say
that an experience that you had with your asshole landlord
wouldn't make you feel. Hmm.
Powerless in those moments, but I hope that from an outsider's

(40:18):
perspective, you can look in andsee what I see.
Which is a very intentional choice to end up maybe not
exactly here, but pretty fuckingclose.
Yeah, I appreciate that. I would agree.
Yeah. I think a lot of life is a
story, you know, and it's a story that we get to choose.
I don't think anxiety and depression is is a choice that

(40:40):
you know, if someone asked me would you have chosen to go
through a living hell for two decades, I would have said no.
But on the other side of it, I do think that that the quality
of our life is more of a choice than we believe.
You know, outside of genetics isa fuck tonne of option in the
way that we choose to view our experiences, Yeah, And what is a

(41:04):
what is a story that in really hard moments you tell yourself
to help bring you back to a positive mindset?
What's a lens that you put on the camera?
Probably the fact that a lot of what happens to us isn't our
fault. Obviously.
The negative things that happen.But also the success as well.

(41:28):
I think there's a level of, you know, privilege that we have to
acknowledge as part of that success.
And then it's almost like a baseline for success if you're
hearing this really kind of. Equitable position that's
already when you're born a lot further than so many people in
life, then success is further inreach for you.

(41:50):
Um. But I do think it's our
responsibility, say, if something negative did happen to
us when we were younger or when we had less resources or we were
less in charge of our own decisions and we had to trust
other people to make them for us.
I do, however, think it's our responsibility to move past them

(42:13):
and look at ourselves and seek support as well.
I think obviously that straddlesa very fine line of how mental
illness can really debilitate those decisions for us.
But I do think it's been comforting for me to know that.
There is a lot of life that happens to us.

(42:36):
But there is a lot of life that we can make happen for us and a
lot of decisions that mean that we do still have power and we
can. Move past stuff and we can make
changes and we can make choices and we can grow and we can end
up in situations that are. Our as a result of our own

(42:56):
choices that are our fault. Hmm.
Yeah, being in a position of power is feeling powerful, not
being in a position of power cause that implies that someone
needs to be less than. But it is important and I feel
most powerful when I feel most loved.

(43:18):
You know, there are moments whenI could have no resources, but
so much no resources in the material sense, but just people
around me being like, hey, you fucking rock and I'll be like I
do fucking rock. You know, I am powerful and I
can do it. And it's taken me a shit tonne
of time to trust my wings and not the branch.

(43:41):
And the more and more I've learned to trust my wings, the
more powerful I feel. Because I'm like, I mean, not to
this extent just yet, but I'm like, you know what?
Life fucking throw it at me. I fucking day you like I can and
will get through this. Yeah.
Now there are a few things that still could break me.
Probably the main thing left is like when my if my mom died

(44:02):
right now. I'd be fucked.
I'm the same I'd be. Institutionalised don't even
start. We'd be done.
But it's it's less about than what is losing her.
It's it's why would that affect me so much?
What does that represent? And what it represents to me is
the final stage of trusting my wings.
Because I think for a long time she was my wings.

(44:24):
Yeah. There is no way in the world I
was trusting my feathers. Yeah.
In fact, I would have paid someone to pluck my feathers off
and she kind of held them up. And then over time as an adult,
I'm like, OK, I think I can fucking do this.
And then I'm like, OK, I'm doingthis now.
I'm helping others do it. But still, there's almost this
belief that just one step away is a 33 year old man

(44:48):
independently being involved with five businesses and
standing on stage in front of thousands of people.
The reality is at any point in time, just an inch away, I
believe that there is a mother bird with a feather on her on my
back. Yeah.
You know, being like it's it's OK.
Yeah. And when I need to download that
so far into my system that when she is actually no longer here,

(45:10):
I still feel that supported and that eventually that feather on
the back that I feel that is herbecomes me fully me, that I
depend on myself. Is that something you're like
to? Yeah, absolutely.
I think an example of. That would be my life this week,
like it was an absolute catastrophe.

(45:31):
On Monday I had. They also gave us two weeks and
three days notice. I have a personal vendetta
against whoever Millie's tenantsis.
Landlord. Sorry a lot of.
People do. Meriton sucks.
They don't care though, saying that on camera.
That's fine. No, we're intentionally doing
it. Just making sure they know.

(45:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So everything fell apart and it
was awful and it was scary. And the first person I called
was my mum because she already had the back story and that was
the final straw. And I almost look forward to
calling her in moments like thatbecause I know that she'll feel
for me as well. So I'm not on my own.
I don't have to process emotionson my own in those situations.

(46:13):
She's there also taking on some of that emotional load, which I
don't know if it's super healthy, but she's holding it
with me, yeah. Exactly.
And so I was really, really upset.
I really love where I live, and obviously 2 1/2 weeks is not a
lot of time logistically. But I knew.
I knew as soon as I got that email, and I was absolutely
shattered, that I trusted myselfand my brain and my ability to

(46:39):
solve problems and to move past challenges and to get shit done
enough that I would. I knew that I would be OK and.
At lunchtime today we secured a new place and application
approved and we're all done. Like it's all over before close
of business Friday, which is just how I operate.
You know what I mean? Like we just yeah, I think I
just also trust. I mean, again though, the wing

(47:03):
on the back is my mom won't pullout when I'm like, Can you
believe this? Let's process this together
because it's so shitty. But at the same time, we both
know her and I, both know that Ihave the ability and the
capacity to get it sorted. And that also, I mean goes
without saying, requires a levelof privilege to get things

(47:23):
sorted like that. And it also depends on the
situation, because there's a lotof things in life where you
can't sort them out, you can't just make something happen by
the end of the week, and there are a lot harder to deal with.
I always find that the antithesis to my anxiety is
action. And if I'm able to deploy an
action plan really clearly, if Ican apply for properties, I can

(47:45):
go to inspections, I can do that, I'll already feel a tonne
better because I'm actually doing something to try and get
closer to my ideal outcome and further away from this
hopelessness and this lack of power.
Action, right? Yeah, action really does.
The moment we just get a little hint of momentum, it's just the
spark we need to start snowballing.

(48:07):
And I think that's the hard partabout depression is that oh God,
you the the spark plug just doesnot fucking.
Fire. No.
Exactly. And you're just praying for some
type of progress. And yeah, we kind of just loop
on ourselves. Hmm.
And I don't know, there's a million things I could talk
about here. But I guess I wanna ask you,

(48:30):
what's the spark plug you use when when you're depressed?
I usually try and I guess reevaluate my life like have a
bit of a. An existential crisis.
Like, what am I actually doing? Go back to the core of me as a
human being, like I've got some data now.

(48:50):
I've lived a tonne of different places and I've I've done a
bunch of random things and I've known a lot of people, and I
will continue to do so. But I would say that I do have
enough data now to look back andgo When was the time that I felt
really myself? When did I feel at peace?
When did I feel surrounded by people that mattered to me?
What was I doing when I felt most happy?

(49:11):
All of those. Kinds of things.
And so I'll again get great, I guess satisfaction around those
action items that fall around rejigging my life and that could
easily fall into the unhealthy trap of avoidance where when I
broke up with this partner and we ended things early last year,

(49:35):
my immediate kind of action planwas to OK, I'm going to move
into state, I'm going to get a rescue dog.
I'm going to create a new. Community.
Where I live, I might even work for someone else.
Like I was just thinking really kind of, I guess, big picture,
because the little things don't do it for you when you're just
feeling so hopeless. It's kind of like.

(49:57):
Even the things that I used to love most, like going for a walk
and getting coffee with my friend, or seeing my family's
dogs, or even spending time withmy mum, they don't do it for you
anymore, which is why it feels so scary and you feel so
extremely low. For me, I had to think big
picture. It's like, how can I restart?
How can I shock myself out of this state so hard that I have a

(50:25):
new chance? I have this new start and I can
kind of reinvent myself beyond this depression because I don't
want it to. Just completely consume me and
my identity. I know that I can be more than
this and so I think also that. Includes a lot of lifestyle
changes as well, because a lot of my depression, although I

(50:47):
have this kind of baseline hereditary depression, a lot of
that time was situational depression, because I was making
choices that weren't aligned with where I wanted to be or how
I wanted to live. And it made me feel so, so shit.
So, you know, I got back on antidepressants.
I got in the queue for online therapy.
I ended a relationship. I got a rescue dog.

(51:10):
I decided to move into state. And I was on this journey with
my therapist. We were kind of in person and
online. It was still kind of COVID.
But I have a I have clear notes on my phone of that first
session. It was over six months where I
hadn't even ended my relationship and I'd only just
gotten gotten back on antidepressants and it was like

(51:32):
a full circle moment where I wasthen living in Sydney with my
dog. And it was so it was worlds
apart and we were kind of like, alright, well, I think you're
going to be alright for a littlewhile.
It's kind of like this is a really nice place to leave it.
I was like, holy shit, I think you're right.
I think you're fucking climbed amountain.
Like, yeah, it's you get to the the peak, I guess, and you look
back and you're like, Oh my God,I was you don't realise how low

(51:54):
you are until you're looking back from the top of that hole.
Yeah, fully, fully, yeah. Another analogy I I like to use
is sometimes the progress feels so slow it's like being in a
boat without a motor. You're like, I'm not fucking
moving, but six months later youlook back in the islands, like

(52:15):
in the distance you're like, holy shit yeah, I've done stuff.
How good? Yeah.
And that is a moment that we have to take stock of.
And I I love the fact that you take the time to go back and
read through your notes and yourjournal and stuff because we
need to leave ourselves a paper trails sometimes, yeah.
To remind ourselves who we were and who we are so that we don't

(52:38):
get cognitively distorted by thinking we are exactly where we
used to be because it's just notfucking true.
Exactly. And I have to always remember
that when I go through these peaks and troughs like, I find
it quite. Cyclical as someone who gets a
period, but also just through the seasons of life, Like, I
have these really lovely periodswhere I feel it pace and

(53:01):
everything feels like it's goingright.
And I think that kind of energy that I bring attracts more good
things. And then, you know, something,
Yeah, you become magnetic for a little while and then something
happens to you that kind of shakes you a little bit.
And then you kind of go through that confirmation bias of, oh,
maybe life isn't actually that good.
Maybe it was only just a fluke that I had these past few
months. But I swear, every single time I

(53:25):
go through this process, I forget that it's cyclical, I
forget that it's seasonal. I forget that nothing lasts
forever. Everything is temporary.
So I have to just remember in those times where probably like
a few days before I get my period, for example, everything
is I'm catatonic, it's all over.I'm just, you know, the worst

(53:46):
version of me and everything feels so heavy and I feel so
upset. Um, but I know that it's only
temporary and even beyond Physiology.
If, for example, this week, at the start of this week, I was, I
was kind of tonic as well. I was like, I I have to leave a
place that I really love. This is my neighbourhood, all of
that stuff. But I mean, it's going to be

(54:07):
fine. So I just have to remember that
it's temporary and I can't remember who, but it's probably
quite a widely used technique where you write yourself a
letter from your highest. Self to your lowest self and you
go. I'm at my peak right now.
I'm at one of my peaks. You're going to definitely

(54:28):
experience a trough again. So here's a letter just to
remind you that you will get outof it.
It's only temporary, everything is gonna be fine.
So just chill, just go through it, go through the motions, feel
the feelings, process the emotions, and just know that if
you're going to come out the other side.
And I think that's also helpful for the good times as well,
because they're not permanent either.

(54:49):
They're fleeting. Their temporary obviously you
can operate at this baseline of peace and happiness and
enjoyment and gratitude, and allof that is something that I aim
for all the time, and I think mytroughs have slowly started to
get less deep and less low. But you've also got to remember
that the highs are really special as well.
And they're not permanent either.

(55:10):
Exhale and look around when they're there, right?
Yeah, and nature will show us that the leaves will grow, the
leaves will fall, and that will repeat for the rest of eternity.
Just like, you know, reason, season, lifetime.
People come in, people go. Yeah, and emotions will do the
same. And I think the the lighter we
can hold things and just kind ofjust let them be experiences,

(55:33):
either moments of joy or momentsof growth and not fight against
what is again, to to beat this analogy to death, but trust
doings and not the branch. I love that one, though.
That's a good one, right? Someone told me that.
I don't know. And I was like, holy fuck, that
defines resilience in the most poetic way ever.

(55:55):
Yeah, and like self trust, Yeah,You know, and internalising
capability as opposed to externalising chance.
Yeah. So as we walk this home, what is
the question that you wish I'd asked you but I didn't?
Probably what my preventative strategies are hit me.

(56:16):
To facilitate mental health might have changed a lot over
that 18 months that I've been onthe upwards climb out of that
hole and so I would say that exercise or movement has become
top of the list for me. Um.
I think that also encapsulates alot of other smaller habits like

(56:42):
being outdoors, getting up earlyas well, and they are all
byproducts of the movement that I choose to do every day and the
the time of day that I choose todo them.
Yeah, just little things like getting up earlier help with my
energy levels, which then helps with my productivity, which
helps with myself worth. It helps me go to sleep at

(57:03):
night, It helps my anxiety. There's just all of these flow
on effects from really, kind of.Accessible lifestyle changes.
Obviously I have the resources to be able to afford medication,
which is amazing, and that that forms part of my preventative
plan as well. But I would argue that we all
need to be thinking preventatively, no matter what

(57:26):
our previous mental health journey looks like.
If we've got the capacity now where we're facing stability and
this baseline level, it's probably a good time to look at
what you can do. To help prevent ending up in
crisis mode again. Because once you're in crisis
mode, you've got nothing unless you've prepared for it like a

(57:47):
literal storm. You don't have the energy to
reach for the right things. You you go inwards, you don't go
outwards. So by looking at, OK, what am I
doing that I can build into my routine to not just help prevent
myself getting back into that crisis mode, but to also know
what to do and who to reach for when I eventually get back there

(58:09):
at some point in life, when I hit a really rough patch.
So to that point, what if you what's the best piece of advice
you've been given about your mental health or advice that
you've made yourself that you would put on a billboard for
people to drive past everyday? Oh my God.
One thing. Yeah, one thing.
Oht my God that's so tricky because mental health is so

(58:33):
subjective I know, but what comes to your gut?
Cause you told me you got a goodgut.
Um. Probably around the idea that
connection and connectedness with others is everything.

(58:53):
There's been, you know, a tonne of research and a tonne of
concepts around the idea of connectedness and I know we all
experienced the lack of that during COVID and that really
affected us. But I think beyond those
conversations, we've kind of forgotten that pretty much one
of the core. Raisins for living and one of

(59:15):
the core. Parts of our pyramid of self and
our hierarchy of needs is our connectedness with others and
that has always been the case since the beginning of time and
I don't think we are all gettingenough of that or we value it
highly enough. So I think if you kind of do one
thing preventatively and even reactively for your mental

(59:40):
health and the mental health of others, it would be to value
connectedness and to spend your resources on that.
If it's just saying hi to your barista or reaching out to your
friend once a week, put it in your diary.
Like do a mask kind of check in if you need to.
Whatever it is, just make sure that you're maintaining that

(01:00:01):
connectedness with the world. And then even better, if you can
start building this little community around where you live
and operate and go to work, that's even better.
Connection is everything, I agree, and you are devoting your
life to it, as am I. And how can people connect with

(01:00:22):
you online? Probably Instagram is the best
place. It's kind of fades out to
everything else at Millie Rose Bannister and let's just say
that once more, so it comes through the mic real.
Quick at Millie Rose, Bannister,Millie with a Y, here we go, but
also follow we. Go to Yes, I wanna do.

(01:00:47):
This is so good. Can you stand down the camera
like an anchor? Go to.
No, but seriously. Our charity Instagram.
Our Gen Z, Peter P Mental healthInstagram.
We put out at least one or two resources every week.
Yeah, it's really. Just a graphic carousel Or it's
an interview. Yeah, with a creator.

(01:01:08):
And that comes from our Youth Board.
Like, what are you going throughat the moment?
What do you feel like you're talking about with your friends
or seeing on social media that'stopical and relevant to you and
your mates at the moment? And then we build our resources
based on evidence based research.
And so those resources are really helpful, but it's also
just I guess a nice place to find other people who value that

(01:01:32):
type of content and connection and conversations around mental
health. And I find that our community is
really compassionate like what we're touching on at the start.
I think Gen Z is a really special Gen because they're so
emotionally intelligent and they're so probably because they

(01:01:54):
have access to so much information and they're able to
kind of self identify a lot sooner than we were able to when
we were that age, which is good and bad.
So all kind is ALKND no I no I in all kind.
You could go to allkindsof.org or all kind on Instagram and

(01:02:15):
yeah, join our community. It is very cool content and I
also love the design of it. I think you've done a lot of
thinking around making sure thatwhat you're doing resonates with
the audience and how they want to hear it.
And so it's also a good resourcefor parents to send to their
kids, I think to be able to stayconnected and an online world,

(01:02:36):
given the conversation we had before.
If people are going to be on their screens, then let's give
them content that will help themgrow.
Absolutely. Thanks for joining.
Me. Thank you for having me.
Been a pleasure. Absolutely.