Sam Hann - losing his brother, the parts of grief that nobody talks about (our most vulnerable episode to date)

Sam Hann is a popular Sydney yoga teacher who's spent over 6 years sharing his knowledge in studios and through his YouTube channel. In 2021, he lost his brother, Blake and his world has never been the same. In this episode, we cover:

• Grief - the hard, messy and raw reality of losing a loved one that people don't speak about.

• The moment he heard the news and how that impacted his life and family as he knew it.

• The 5 stages of grief - why it's not that simple and the pain it doesn't capture.

• The #1 best way to support someone through loss - that we're probably all getting wrong.

• Making a promise to go to therapy and why he's intent on role-modelling vulnerability to help other men who might be struggling in silence.

• How yoga and the loss of his brother helped him face his fear of failure and letting people down.

• Re-building through grief and the reality of integrating and living with trauma and trying to find peace.

You can connect with Sam here:

www.instagram.com/samhannyoga/

You can practice yoga with Sam here::

In-person at www.blazeyoga.com.au and www.rarestudiosau.com or free, online at: www.youtube.com/@SamHannYoga

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Today's incredible guest is Mr Sam Hann, who's a yoga teacher
who first began teaching in 2017.
Unfortunately in 2021 Sam lost his older brother Blake who was
a sniper in the Australian army and that changed Sam's life
forever, which is kind of the topic of today's episode in how

(00:22):
to deal and work through grief. Sam found it really challenging
to return to his regular life and he posted a lot about his
grief journey on social media and today he now works actively
to show how vulnerability and role modelling healthy

(00:42):
behaviours in person online, through his yoga teaching and
through who he is as a charactercan go an incredibly long way to
a dialogue that enables us to work through hard stuff.
And this is one of the rarest realist episodes I've ever done
in terms of holding space and being honoured to be let into a

(01:07):
guest's life whilst it's still being worked through in real
time. Trigger warning.
In this episode, if you have lost someone, we go to some
pretty beautifully rich deep paths of his experience.
But part of that might be confronting.
So perhaps watch this episode when you're feeling like you're

(01:27):
in a stable headspace or in company with someone that you
trust. If you do get value from this
episode, all I ask is one thing.Please subscribe, rate, and
review the show. It goes a long way to helping
spread the message and allow more people to hear these
productive mental health conversations.
So without further ado, introducing Sam, Mr Sam, as a

(01:51):
built masculine man who I can already tell in this short space
of time that we've chatted, has an enormous heart.
How do you balance those two parts of you?
I think I've never really had. A problem with with with not

(02:11):
feeling masculine. I've always been a super
emotional person, so I've never.I've never felt the need to
balance those two parts of myself.
I've I've kind of always felt comfortable with them both, just
existing with each other, which?Which does lend itself quite
well to teaching yoga, I guess. Yeah, yoga is being an important
practise for you to come back home to yourself and and grow

(02:34):
and work through some painful parts of your life.
Is that right? Very much so.
Very much so, yeah, I've been. Teaching for six years.
Practising for around 8 and whenI first started practising I was
it wasn't like I was searching for anything.
I was just at a stage of my lifewhere I was I was happy to try

(02:55):
anything. And I was at the gym one day and
just walked past the studio thatsaid there was a hot yoga class
starting in 5 minutes. So I just went in and it was a
love affair that started from there.
What do you think it was? To be honest, I think it was.
At the the very beginning it waspure vanity.
I was training for a competition.

(03:18):
When I've told this story beforeI call it a bodybuilding
competition but it wasn't an on stage fake tan sort of ordeal.
It was a A10 week challenge withthe local supplement shop where
you tried to transform your bodyin in 10 weeks.
So at the time I was looking quite good and there was mirrors
in the studio and it was hard and it was sweaty.
I thought this is a good way to drop body fat and and it was fun

(03:40):
but. If if I'm to give you a deeper
reason as to why I stayed. After those first couple of
months where it was just purely physical.
I I soon started to realise thatthat was the only part of my day
that I was looking forward to. At that time I was 23.
And I was doing a TAFE course toeventually join the police.

(04:04):
Which I never really wanted to do.
I think I was. I was suggested to do this by
family because I wasn't really doing anything with my life at
that point. And.
Yeah, the the teacher throughoutthe practises would often, you
know, they'd start to drop in those little drops of wisdom or
or give you the opportunity to think about things a little bit
deeper. And it was during that practise

(04:26):
that I realised. That that time in my life that I
was depressed and I didn't even know it.
Like the yoga practise taught methat I was depressed.
Which? Was such a really good
realisation, but scary as well because I don't.
I think I was just. Existing up until that point

(04:46):
and. I'm sure you've spoken to
hundreds of men who. Almost feel like it's just
natural to not feel OK or not feel good and just have that
just get on with it. Sort of attitude.
So I think the yoga practise hasbeen so important for me because
it's helped me to, sort of. I guess I understand that it is

(05:11):
OK not to be OK Hmm. And to give you a toolkit,
essentially, to help you get through those those points.
What's the reason you think a lot of men just exist in a state
of lostness, directionless isness and all the above?
I was. I was thinking about this before

(05:32):
the podcast as I was roaming around Bondi.
And I don't know whether it's it's it's purely biological or.
I I sometimes feel that women may be innately more well
equipped to deal with with negative emotions in relation to
themselves. Whereas I know some men might

(05:54):
see it as a weakness. Some men just, I feel, don't
have the capacity to understand that that's what they're
feeling, and it's easier to block out those thoughts and
just live a more vague existence, almost ignoring what
they're feeling. I think it's a, it's a.
It's a combination of quite a lot of things.

(06:15):
When do you think, for you, the feelings first started that
we're probably not overly healthy?
What age do you reckon you are? As early as I can remember.
Which I you know, I try to pack this quite often, but.
I think the internal dialogue I've always had surrounding

(06:38):
myself has never really been positive.
I've always spoke. Not very nice about myself.
What's the worst thing you've ever said to yourself?
I don't know about worse, but the most common is your piece of
shit. Um, I think.
Somewhere deep in my brain, it'sjust I've.

(07:00):
And I know this is it's a completely wrong thought.
I don't know it's untrue, but I'm just sort of.
Almost assume that I'm always going to be a failure and I'm
always going to let people down and.
And that has just been the driving force for for a very
long time, up until I started practising yoga and it's still
something I struggle with all the time.

(07:21):
But. It's so funny because I know
it's untrue as well. Like, it's so untrue.
But it's so strong and it just keeps replaying and it keeps
replaying. And you think you?
You know, you start practising yoga and and and studying the
texts and doing meditation and things like that and.

(07:42):
I think from the outside lookingin, sometimes people might
think, haven't you got it figured out yet, you know?
It's less about figuring it out,more about just trying to
identify it. So at least you're aware that
it's happening, and in those moments, try to stop yourself
from having those thoughts. I think a lot of people can
relate, myself included, to thisinternal narrative of feeling

(08:05):
like you're a failure, feeling like you're going to do
something wrong. Is there a moment in your life
where you first felt, can you think about a situation where
you're like, I failed? What's the first time you think
you failed? I thought about this quite often
too, and the The funny thing is,I can't.

(08:27):
Really pinpoint any moments where I had failed.
To a degree, it's more so. I think one of my biggest fears
is letting people down. Hmm.
And because of that, it often prevents me from.
Doing a lot of things or or trying my hardest and things

(08:49):
like that, I can rattle off a bunch of times where I was.
Arrested. Stole my sister's car and got
caught Drink driving when I was 17.
Didn't have my licence. That was a bit of a failure.
Or a teenager. Or a teenager.
I remember the moment I had to call my mom to tell her.
And yeah, I definitely felt likea failure at that point.

(09:10):
I got expelled from school one month before the HSE.
Nice. That's impressive.
Yeah, I guess that's also a failure, but that the reason I
got expelled from school was. Not because of doing something,
it was because of doing nothing.For the whole of U-12, I would
turn up often without a school book and just hang out with my
friends. Just talk shit.

(09:31):
Go to the gym. Whilst I'm supposed to be in
class. And the school, actually, they
tried really hard to keep me in school.
They gave me keys to a gym that they had in the in the school
hall, which no one was allowed access to.
They gave me the key to that gymto try and coerce me to stay in
school. But.
It was just a wrap bag, you know, I was.

(09:53):
I guess I I often try to avoid. Situations where there is a
potential to disappoint people you know, rather than studying
for tests and things like that. I would just not do them.
Because I know if I don't try then I can't fail.
So it's not just the fear of failure, it's the fear of trying

(10:14):
and then still not being able toachieve.
So in some ways, to me, my initial reflections on that is
there's also a sense of control under there, which is that if I
put myself in a position of perceived control and I still
don't control the outcome, that means that the world is chaos or
bad things can happen. I am vulnerable and susceptible
and perhaps a protection mechanism that your beautiful

(10:37):
inner psyche has built, which isthat I can feel and control if I
make myself believe that I nevertried in the 1st place.
Does that land at all for sure? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. So it makes a lot of sense.
And I think for us, once we unpack and get some awareness
around some of this stuff, we can release a lot of the shame
because, you know, I'm a failure, such a loaded thing.

(10:58):
And if we, instead of trying to disown the part of us that
believes that, invite them around the campfire and be like,
tell me where did you come from?You know where what, what are
you actually trying to protect? Because a lot of the time
there's a positive seed under that thing.
It just is showing itself in a really fucking strange way.

(11:20):
And again, I'm a pretty good judge of character.
I would say just from the energythat I've seen from you since
you've walked in the door, thereis a very good heart under
there. Maybe I just invite great guests
and that's the common theme, butit sounds as if less you believe

(11:41):
that you're inherently bad at stuff or bad as a character, but
more that a perpetual fear of, yeah, letting people down and
not being in control of that outcome, yeah.
Yeah, which is. Is again I know to be untrue
because if I. In, in, in my daily interactions

(12:01):
and in my work, like people do have very lovely things to say
about me, and I'm sure you can relate to this.
That. And another trait of mine is I'm
really bad at accepting things. You know, like someone gives you
a compliment. Oh no, no.
Just that instant dismissal thatyou're not open to receive.
Super happy to give but not opento receiving.

(12:24):
Has yoga helped you receive? Because it's quite a heart
spaced focused practise where like you're literally trying to
expand your chest to let an energy.
Yeah. It it has a I think what I.
I was in a teacher training justa couple of months ago and.
The teacher was. Talking about their their
purpose, or part of their purpose, and they shared what it

(12:47):
was. So I went away and I really
thought about what my purpose is, or or perhaps a piece of it,
and I think it is to share. So and that's to to share
everything where there be share a piece of content online or or
share music or share a conversation or share yoga.
So I think. What when when I am?

(13:09):
Delivering yoga, I guess you could say, is when I feel the
most comfortable, because that is me, I look at it as me giving
rather than me receiving. I do absolutely receive the
energy in the room and I do thrive off that.
But it feels to me in the momentlike it's more of a giving than
it is a receiving. Hmm, that's true.

(13:29):
You're you're, you're sharing a lot of your energy, your wisdom,
your knowledge. And you, I imagine you would
describe yourself as a giver, someone who wants to be able to
be there for others, support them, show up for them whilst
perpetually fearing that you're not doing enough and sort of
chasing your tail in this endless loop.
And you know, one of the main ways we got introduced is

(13:52):
because we share a common friendwho knows that you unfortunately
lost your late brother Blake in 2021 and that that has had a
massive impact on you. And you know, she's, she was
said that she was so delighted and moved and inspired by your

(14:12):
grieving process that she's likeyou.
You got to talk to to Sam like he's an incredible person.
So, a first of all, are you comfortable journeying down this
path a little bit to talk about Blake?
For sure. What's your happiest memory with
him? Yeah.

(14:43):
My happiest memory that I can think of.
Was probably a year before he passed away and.
I happened to be just driving past where he was living and
called him up and said can I come to your house?
And he said yes. Sweet.
And then I just remember we. In the garage just having a
couple of beers and. I said you want to go for a

(15:06):
walk? I mean we we just went down to
the beach and because my brotherwas in the army, he was a sniper
in the army for 10 years. And he had left the army about
18 months before he passed away.And so we were just out and
laying on the sand. Just looking up the stars and it
was. It was such a good reminder of

(15:29):
how different our lives were because, you know, I was getting
all sentimental looking up at the stars.
And I was like, isn't this so beautiful?
Just looking up at the stars, but from his perception.
Ten years in the Army, you know,going out field month at a time
and he's like, I'm fucking overlooking at these things.
He's like, it's all I did for 10years in my life was about be
out Bush looking up at the stars.

(15:51):
But that was just a funny thing that I recall.
But during that night? And he shared some parts of
himself with me, which he'd never done before because
there's this six year age difference and we have another
brother, Josh, in between and anelder sister, Melissa, who's the
oldest. But.

(16:11):
Me and Blake were always. Far enough apart that we weren't
at school together. Um.
But you know that that right amount of distance where I was
always looking up to him like hewas, even before he joined the
army, he was always the most handsome.
Got all the girls. He was always a tough guy.

(16:31):
He always got into fights. Which?
Is something that I'll never be able to my I'll come back to
that part, but. So always looked after him so
much and. He was the kind of guy that
nothing ever faced him, you know, he was the strongest.
He was the smartest. He was the bravest he would tell
you that. Nice.

(16:54):
But that particular day when I went to stay with him.
He told me that he'd overextended himself.
He said I have to go visit a friend who's in hospital.
Would you mind coming with me? And I said, yeah, no worries.
And I sat in the car. And three hours later my brother
came out and I had no idea what was going on.
And I was like, oh, what happened is you made OK.
And he said, yeah, he's just under protective watch because

(17:15):
he tried to kill himself last night.
Which was heavy for me to hear because I didn't know what was
happening, and he said that Blake was the only person that
his friend would speak to. He wouldn't speak to the doctors
and the nurses, anyone like thatbecause they were in the army
together and they they shared a bond.
And after that? I asked him in the car.

(17:37):
I was like, can I ask how you'redoing in terms of like, how's it
mental health, which is was so hard for me as a younger brother
to even ask? I well, I just expected their
response. Yeah, Sweet.
Nothing. But his response was well,
seeing as you asked. I'm actually on antidepressants.

(17:59):
And. Like I'm doing right now.
Immediately I just started breaking down.
And he does look you fucking crying for your pants.
I think it was. It was like a a barrier had been
lifted between us, you know, it was always younger brother,
older brother, but. His his vulnerability to share

(18:20):
in that moment was so special tome.
Yeah, I'll bet it wasn't all theyoung guy.
We were just brothers in that moment, yeah.
What did that represent for you that your hero became your
friend? That for sure, but also that.
And understanding that even the biggest, strongest men struggle
as well, yeah. And I think his.

(18:43):
His ability to share in that moment.
Showed me more strength than himgetting in a fight with four
guys at a pub. Would you know what I mean?
So was I was super proud of him in that moment.
Yeah. I can hear and feel how proud
you are of him and and it's so, so special that and I'm sure
he's he's looking down on us right now and feeling honoured

(19:09):
that the bravest things he'd done sniper in the army.
And yet the thing you value about him most would be, I'm
sure, the thing that he would want you to value about him
most, which is that there was a tender human being under there
that loved these little bro. And from that moment, I guess

(19:30):
you guys became even closer. For sure.
And as that was a year and a half before he passed, the year
leading up to his passing, you're enjoying this amazing
relationship as you have your entire childhood.

(19:50):
And then the ultimate news happens.
What happens in the 1st 10 seconds after you hear the
unhearable? This I am.
I've shared with a couple of people but and this.

(20:11):
I'm interested to share this with you because it was my
sister Melissa who called me andI was getting ready to go teach
a workshop, a yoga workshop, to maybe 40 people.
It was an hour before that I just got out of the shower and
immediately I could tell by the tone of my sister's voice that

(20:31):
something was wrong. And what was the most fucked up
is when she told me I was looking at myself in the mirror
because I just got out of the shower and I physically saw and
felt my face change. Which even now is as weird as

(20:54):
this sounds when I see my own reflection or reminds me that my
brother is dead. I felt that one, you know, just
Thomas Lake physically feeling hot, sucked out whilst watching

(21:18):
it happen at the same time. So it was instant shock.
I was pacing the the house back and forth.
It was talking to a friend who was coming to the workshop just
by text message and just out of shock I just called him and told
him he wasn't. He wasn't my closest friend, but

(21:39):
I just picked up the phone and Ijust called him.
And you know, even to this day, I I can't.
I have avoided talking to him because his voice reminds me of
that moment. Hmm.
It's I can remember every singlething around my environment from
that time, like etched into my brain.
The colours, the smells, the thethe sound, everything,

(22:03):
everything. I'm so glad that I don't live in
the the place that that when I found out the news, I don't.
We moved out a month later, but yeah, it was a lot.
Yeah, wow. I've never ever thought about.
The difficulty of losing a DNA relative to the point where you

(22:28):
see them in your own face. And the constant reminder of
your own reflection that you've lost Akin a blood of kin, you
know. And.
That's something that's unavoidable.
Like you're it's almost like theuniverse is forcing you to look
at yourself and work through it and like not run away from that

(22:51):
pain. But you know, it's obviously
still something that lives with you on a daily basis and has
affected you deeply. Understandably so.
So you you have this reaction, you hear this news and then like
your world is shaken up like a snow globe.
How And I I say this not to relive your trauma and as we

(23:15):
spoke about before and I just wanna remind you again now let's
explore this carefully and safely and if at any point
you're like I can't go there, then we back it right off.
And the intent of this pod and these conversations are always
to relate to people who might begoing through the same thing, to
feel less alone. The next, let's say, two weeks,

(23:36):
the snow globe is fucking everywhere.
How are you? What are you holding on to?
I think the the first two weeks were so full of things
happening. Practical stations, which, you
know, I have to go. We had a funeral to plan, you
know, We had to tell the family.You know, you've got people

(23:59):
coming in and out of the house. So I think first of all that was
a good distraction and I think what had happened, whether I
made this happen or it just it fell into place.
But I maybe because of what I doas a yoga teacher, I I feel a

(24:20):
little bit more comfortable conveying what I'm feeling and I
can help other people express something that they may not be
able to express. So I kind of fell into the role
of being there for other people,you know, being there for Mum,
being there for Dad, my brother's wife and his four

(24:42):
boys. You know, here's 4 kids, so I
think. Wow, that is that almost stunted
my grief a little bit, because now I don't have time to think
about it. I've got to go see this person.
I've got to. Do this shelf.
I'll come back to that later, Yeah.
So that the first two weeks werewere filled up.

(25:04):
With that I'll share something which I I still find very
interesting to this day. We sat down and had a family
meeting about funeral proceedings and things like
that, and you know, what songs we're going to choose, what
pictures we're going to show, all that sort of stuff.
And immediately when the word eulogy was said, I was like,

(25:27):
I'm, I'm doing it. Stepping up, I'm going to do it
like, yeah, fuck everyone else. I'm doing it.
And in classic Sam fashion, I waited until the night before,
until midnight, to ride it. Fear of letting your brother
down on the eulogy, Yeah. But also leaving things to the
last minute. Yeah, but um, like, I'm I'm
crying now. During this conversation, I

(25:48):
cried daily. And sure, I shed a few tears
during giving that eulogy. But it was.
It was almost like Blake was helping me through it.
Hmm. In that moment, I didn't feel
sadness as much as I did pride. The pride that I was able to do

(26:09):
that. Hmm.
So yeah, I guess. Well, the reason I bring that up
is I I I found it interesting that, you know, I'm having a
harder time now forming my sentences than I was then, when
that was, you know, such a big moment.
Hmm. The stages of grieving are so

(26:33):
complex. So complex, you know, we we
build frameworks like the Five Stages of Grief and things like
that to try and understand, rationalise and.
Know if we're on track toward a path of one day living alongside
of a painful moment such as a death.
But it's certainly not a linear process.

(26:58):
How would you describe, in your own words, this stage of grief
that you're in at the moment? Can you remind me of the five
stages of Greek? Fuck, I should know this
considering other Masters degreein it.
It's denial. Shock, denial, anger.
There's a weird word that comes next, and then it's probably.

(27:20):
Accepted. Yeah, eventually you get to
acceptance. I wonder what that weird word
is. I'm probably there.
I'm. Negotiating.
I think it is something like that which is the.
You're trying to integrate it and rationalise it.
You're not necessarily angry, but you're trying to work out
what life looks like now on the other side of that.

(27:43):
Yeah, I would say there, like ifI was to even say the word
acceptance, there's a part of methat and you may have spoken to
someone that may have mentioned this, but there's a small part
of me that doesn't want to accept.
It, yeah, That's very normal. Yeah, because there's there's a

(28:08):
part of me that enjoys feeling sad.
Hmm. And I don't want to let that
part go. Why do you enjoy feeling sad?
It's it's common. But I wanna know your why.
I think I try to rationalise things a little bit.

(28:34):
You know Noel from Maria, your teacher, she was talking about
her yoga students the other day and she was saying there's a few
different types of students thatcome to her classes.
There's Type A people, um, sensation Junkies and and
something else. And I was like, oh fuck, I think
I'm a bit of a sensation junkie.But the the the moment I found

(28:58):
out Blake passed away and the pain that I felt.
So whatever the the biggest moment of your life is, whether
it's you know, getting married or having a child and that's
your happiest moment, whatever the the biggest emotion you've
ever felt. I feel that that resets the the
baseline and yeah, anything thatyou feel in whatever respect is

(29:19):
compared to that, the biggest thing that you felt.
Yep. So I feel for myself often.
Since Blake's passing, I find itharder to feel other stuff.
I find it harder to feel as happy as I once was.
I find it hard to enjoy things as I much was.
I find it hard to feel sad aboutthings apart from Blake not

(29:42):
being here. But other things don't make me
feel as sad. So I think because the the
sensation was so big I still wanna identify with it a little
bit. Hmm, because if I let that
sensation go, then I'm worried. You won't feel at all.
I won't feel at all. Yeah, that makes sense.
And that's a reasonable for you to have.

(30:04):
And. I'm sure there's even more
layers like guilt of acceptance,like, you know, allowed to let,
like go for sure. Do you think this is a
existential question? That's kind of just coming up
for me at the moment. Would you rather?
Not feel at all. Or feel a lot of sadness.

(30:32):
Hmm. I don't know if I could answer
that question. I don't probably feel sadness.
At least it's something. Because, you know, I've had
those moments. Like sometimes I, I what anxiety
feels like for me is when when you're minding your body are not

(30:57):
vibrating at the same frequency.Like there's there's an
imbalance. And sometimes when that
vibration and you're in those anxious moments and it gets so
rapid that it almost becomes like white noise, like
something's moving so fast that it's not moving.
Something happened the other daythat I found really interesting.

(31:18):
I was video recording, which I'mnot a professional, so I'm still
learning in a room that has a lot of lights, fluorescent
lights, LED lights and things like that.
And there was a flickering when I was filming and I didn't
realise until after. And I watched some YouTube
videos that, you know, in Australia the alternating
current is 60 times a second that the current turns on and

(31:41):
off. Our eyes don't see the lights
turning on and off because our eyes are accustomed and are in
tune with those lights. But if your camera is on a
different setting, the one 1 / 50 or 1 / 40, you can very
visibly see that flickering light.
And we're also going with this, I think when you're in those

(32:03):
hyper anxious states, there is so much going on.
We're guests to a point where you just feel absolutely
nothing. You're suspended in reality, you
you, you don't see time and space.
You just, you know, in a feelingof I'd liken it to when you're
coming down off MDMA, for example, I'm not sure if you can

(32:27):
relate to that. But as a youngster, going out
and having party drugs and the next day you're so depleted of
of dopamine and serotonin and things like that, that you just
feel fucking dead. I think that feeling something
for me personally in this momentwould be better than feeling
nothing, because at least if youfeel something, you can work

(32:50):
towards not feeling that way, whereas if you feel nothing.
You got nothing to work with as scary.
It's a scary thought. That was a very long winded
answer, but no. Incredible answer I I think your
visual storytelling in order to communicate your emotions is
exceptional and. I do relate to that analogy

(33:14):
about, you know, I know exactly what you mean with the
flickering and sometimes anxietyso much or a feeling is so much
that it's gone to a frequency that it looks like it's always
on, but it's actually not. It's ebbing and flowing so
rapidly that it's almost. You know, majestic and non

(33:34):
human. And what we're trying to do is
get that vibration from mind, body and spirit in alignment so
that we can feel harmoniously instead of like statically or
erratically. What do you think is the in
trying, in the pursuit of tryingto get alignment with the event
of Blake's passing? And I I guess ultimately that's

(33:57):
the goal, to integrate it for the flickering to at least be
pulsating at the same rate whereby you feel as if I can
coexist with this pain and this reality.
What's the hottest part that you're struggling to to
harmoniously live with? One thing that I struggle with

(34:17):
quite a lot is there's four boysthat lost their dad, a wife that
lost their husband, lost her husband.
I think from a personal standpoint, what I struggle with
is what really helps me when I'mI'm feeling sad and I'm feeling

(34:38):
is actually state. What really helps me is doing
physical things, whether it be running or going to the gym or
practising yoga, but in nightly.My constitution is to be lazy,
like I'm a lazy person that masquerades and tries really
hard to be an active person. But when I'm in those states,

(35:00):
it's super easy for me to do nothing.
So you know, you know, home and feel sorry for myself and eat
bad food and then feel worse andhave a beer and then feel worse
again. Until it gets to a point where I
I hate myself so much that I have to get up and do something.
And the the conversation that itreplays in my mind is like, you

(35:23):
know, it doesn't have to get to this point for you to do
something. Like you could just get up in
the morning and go for that run or go to the gym or practise
yoga. You don't have to hate yourself
all day and make, you know, layer upon layer of bad decision
until it's like the fire under Obama is so strong that you need

(35:44):
to get up. It's like I know the work that I
have to do. Sometimes I just choose not to
do it. So I think your your question
was what do I find the hardest thing about integrating?
The hardest thing is the battle that I have with myself because
I know what work needs to be done and from the outside

(36:05):
looking unit it might look like I'm doing it, but I might be
only doing it you 30% of the time.
So I think it just comes back todiscipline.
Hmm. This.
Tell me if this lands or feels true.
Do you feel as if? The way that you're approaching
this grief and heading toward integration.

(36:28):
You don't want to let Blake downby doing it incorrectly so that
you delay doing it at all. No, I don't.
I don't know if I agree with that.
I think. I don't think there's a way that
Blake would be let down. Hmm.
Like he would never give him a compliment or anything like

(36:51):
that. But what I found super
interesting is because I always thought, you know, there was a
little bit of me that though I would brother hates me and you
know I always would try and do things to impress him growing up
and try to be cooler than inpatient never worked.
I always fell flat, but I remember after his funeral, at

(37:13):
his wake he had all his his armybrothers there who I hadn't met
before. And a lot of them came out to me
and said, oh, you're Sam, you'rethe yoga guy.
And I was like, yeah, what do you mean?
How did you know that he's like,oh, when when we're in Iraq,
Blake could get out his phone and shells, photos and videos of
you doing handstands and show usyour YouTube channel and like

(37:36):
that to me in that moment. Like whether he said it or not,
he must have been proud, right? He must have, he could have been
showing them saying look, look at these fucking Weiner.
Got it, man. So I know that I'm not letting

(37:56):
him down. I know that.
I think it just comes back to that that sensation junkie
thing. Sometimes I feel like the
feeling of me hating myself is abigger feeling than if I was to

(38:16):
go for a run and do a hard workout.
And I'll always default to whatever the biggest feeling is.
I think I I just had that realisation out loud for the
first time. How does that feel?
As you say that, what does that represent or revealed to you?

(38:39):
That I don't know. I don't always have to go for
the biggest, I should go from the one that serves me.
The truest maybe, Maybe not the biggest, but maybe the truest.
Because they don't actually believe you when you say you
hate yourself. Because I know that you see what
other people see, which is. Pretty good fucking dude.

(39:02):
Maybe he hates the wrong word, but.
Dislike. Yeah, yeah, I think.
I think what I need more than anything, but I would probably
hate to admit it, is I need help.
And you know, a lot of the time my, because I haven't spoken to

(39:23):
anyone before, like a psychologist or a therapist or
anyone. And part of me is like, I don't
need to because I can do the work myself because of I don't
have a problem communicating. And I I think I have a pretty
good understanding of what I am feeling.
But everyone needs help. So I think that's just an excuse

(39:45):
for me not wanting to do it because it's hard.
Yeah. This isn't the first time I've
done this, so I don't feel like I'm picking on you.
But. Can you make a commitment to me
on this pod that you're booking to see a therapist?
Yes, we have to. Now the world scene, I'm sure

(40:11):
there's a lot of people who willbe happy that that just happened
to. I think so, man.
I think there's a lot of people that probably care about you
that have seen this and. Just deeply want you to be
happy, or at very least at peace.
And I can tell you right now. Who's the number one person that
wants you to be at peace? You've just been speaking about

(40:33):
him for 15 minutes, yeah. What would he want you to do?
He Regardless of how you get there, he's looking for one
outcome for you. And.
Sometimes with therapy, especially if we have a self
loathing internal narrative again, one in which I can relate
to. The best inspiration can be to

(40:57):
do it for others. You know, there's this
psychology research even at the gym, which is.
If you set a goal for yourself, you're far less likely to stick
to it than if you. Have to do it for someone else.
Like if if you don't come to thegym tomorrow, I'm gonna donate
$20 to Trump's campaign, you know?

(41:18):
Or if, like, if you don't come in tomorrow, we made a
commitment. You're letting me down.
And so I think what we're going to therapy represents right now
if if you do, which I do believethat you will make that next
step is that you're showing everyone else that you you want
to help them by looking after yourself.

(41:39):
Yeah, I think that's a. That's a really good way to
frame it because whenever I do anything, always frame it in a
way that and make it bigger thanmyself sort of thing.
Like, so after, like, dude passed away.
After he did pass away, I'm sorry, one of the first things I

(42:01):
did with one of his mates was weran.
What did we run? We were in 10K's a day for 30
days in a row during November. Fucking now.
So this is one of one of Blake'smates who's in the army.
I only met him at Blakes Funeraland he lived up in Darwin and he
just reached out to me one day and he's like, I really want to

(42:23):
do this. And we're going to raise money
for the Black Dog Institute because one of his friends had
taken his own life. I'd only met this Blakes mate
once, and I can't even think of his name right now.
I can only think of his nickname, Tom.
Tom and Tom. Shows is that you would just

(42:44):
have this absolute. It didn't matter about the
details. You just had a big emotion and
you were like, let's fucking go,let's fucking go.
And that was fantastic. We ended up raising seven and a
half, $1000. Congrats, brother.
That's awesome and one on one day in the middle of the run.
10K is a day for 30 days for someone who's not a runner.
And you're a big boy. Big boy it hurt.

(43:06):
On one of the days, it was Tom'sfriend who passed away, he said.
Oh, he would have been 27 on this day.
Do you want to run 27 keys on this day in amongst the 10 keys
a day for 30 days? Yep, no worries.
It's it. It it feels again, it comes back

(43:30):
to not wanting to let people down.
Like if if what I can do in someway is going to benefit someone
else, then absolutely I'm going to do it.
But if in the moment it's only going to benefit me, I'm more
likely to not do it because it'sa lot easier to let myself down
than it is to let other people down.
So is that why when as we're framing it in that light therapy

(43:52):
feels more accessible because it's a holistic thing versus a
same thing? Well, now that you've framed it
in that way, for sure, I think before, you know, I may have
perceived it as do something that was going to help me.
Yeah, I think one of the things too, that, again, it could just
be an excuse. But one of the things that I

(44:12):
keep coming back to is it would be super hard to see a
therapist, for example. And it the connection wasn't
there between you and the therapist or wasn't the person
or or you shared all this information and then you go out
and you're like, fuck, I don't want to see that person again.
Now I'm gonna go have to go do it again with someone.
Else really tell the story? Yeah.

(44:33):
So because I've heard some people who even gave me advice
that I have to go through three or four therapists, I'm like,
shit, that's you. Happens, bro.
It does. And and I think that the key
there is just to know that you don't need to share everything
up front until you have a match.Because what's a better

(44:56):
scenario? You take a little bit longer
with someone you test vulnerablemoments to see if there's a
connection instead of going top to bottom story.
And also, it's totally fine, normal and healthy when you're
seeing a therapist to say, hey, one of my boundaries is just to
like, go slow. As we start to figure out their
relationship orientation. So even if they ask you, tell me

(45:17):
why you're here. And you answer that Probably not
in the fullest extent straight away.
There's nothing wrong with that.The worst thing that can happen
is you either divulge so much, then figure out they're the
wrong person, but you're like, oh fuck, I gotta stay here now.
It's sunk cost, you know? And as we know with any law of
economics, sunk cost isn't a good enough reason to do
something. Don't throw good money after

(45:38):
bad, or don't keep an investmentjust because you're you're
bleeding. So I'll just continue to bleed.
It's like, no, we can take that out and redo.
The other thing is, is that a bad experience doesn't mean a
bad future experience. It's not evidence to the brain
that you're too far gone, You'retoo broken.
No one will ever understand me. And I say in my talks, expecting
to match chemistry wise with your therapist on the first go,

(46:03):
which does happen by the way, islike marrying your childhood
sweetheart expecting that the heart your high school
girlfriend's going to be. Because chemistry is hard to
find. You're going to tell this
therapist more things than you might have told people that you
trust and have known for decades.
And so it's not just correlated to post code like that.

(46:23):
That fit is more than just a practical.
Think it's a vibration. It's there's a whole bunch of
interpersonal communication things going on.
And it's OK if you go and try ona few therapists, like, I'm a
big fan of date your therapist. Yeah, like go have a couple of
dates with different ones and then eventually you'll be like,
whoa. I want to see that person again.

(46:45):
You're you're body will tell you.
I wanna go back to that person and tell them more shit.
Yeah. And so the way to reduce the
barrier or the friction in between that dating stage of of
therapy is to give little bits so as not to sink all in.
You know what I mean? Yeah that's good.
And. And yeah, I'd be happy to be a

(47:08):
sounding board as you go throughthat process.
But brother, yeah, don't. Don't give up if it doesn't come
on the first go. I promise you you'll find a
match and it will change your life guarantee.
I have no doubt. Just scary.
Yeah. You mentioned before that.

(47:29):
There was a moment of vulnerability between Blake and
yourself which really kind of removed any veil of power
dynamics, and the hero became the peer.
This is a tough one, but it's part of the healing.
What's one thing that you wish you could tell him?

(48:03):
One thing that I did tell him ina message after he passed away.
I am writing messages. All the.
Time. That's fucking awesome.
Yeah. Share memes with him and stuff
on Instagram SO. So cool, but in in the days
following I mentioned to you thethe details of his passing prior

(48:31):
to the podcast, which I I want to make super clear was not
suicide. I think a lot of people see
young man in his 30s army Was heone day, gone the next?
A lot of people instantly assumed suicide.
My brother did not kill himself.One thing that I did tell him in

(48:55):
the days afterwards is that I'm not angry at him.
I know it was an accident. I'm not angry and I don't want
him to feel sad because I know he would.

(49:20):
He would be. Upset with himself?
He disappointed himself that that was the outcome.
Had he known that was going to be the outcome?
Do you think he can forgive himself?
I don't know. I don't know.

(49:40):
But it was. Do you think he could forgive
himself? Sorry.
Yeah, I think wherever he is now, he has access to some
people that could help him. You know some councillors there
up in the sky, some family and friends, Selena and he's got
some tools up there that could, could really help him.
I usually wear a necklace. I broke it recently and it has

(50:05):
Archangel Michael on it, who's the painter in the height of
servicemen, or they call the leader of God's Army.
And I'm not particularly religious.
I was raised Catholic and my family a Catholic, but a family
member who's very close to me. She does get messages, I guess

(50:26):
you could say. And after Blake passed away, she
pulled me aside and said, I havesome things that I can share
with you if you want to hear them.
If it's going to cause you pain,absolutely not.
And without going too much into it, one of the things was that
Blake was with Archangel Michaelnow, and you know, he's now

(50:49):
helping other people in God's army, which whether you're
religious or not, that feels good to me.
Fuck yeah. You know, I think.
I hope he's forgiven himself. Is there anything within
yourself that you need to forgive you for?

(51:12):
In relation to Blake. Yeah, yeah.
Yep, there was. There was a lot of personal
guilt after, whereas some conversations and some
experiences that we had had witheach other prior where I

(51:37):
thought, oh, am I partly to blame for this course of action,
my partly to blame for the for what happened, which again, I
know he's not true, but it's really hard if could I have said
something in the weeks before orcould I have?

(51:58):
It's very normal, yeah. This is so tough because after
we had that night and we were looking up at the stars and he
was, you know, he told me he wason antidepressants and he had
been seeing a psychologist. And I was really excited for the
next stage of his life to not identify as the sniper in the

(52:20):
Army anymore. You know, I was just going
through my messages with him prior to this podcast because I
was like, I'm gonna see if there's any gems in there in two
months before he passed away, hehe wrote a message and said I
just enrolled in tape, I'm goingto study horticulture.
He's like, I want to work towards in the future, you know,

(52:40):
Permaculture regenerated regenerative agriculture and had
a dream of, you know, having hisown bar slash restaurant where
everything was farm to plate. And the message was, I want to
do something that makes me happyand I'm excited to study again.

(53:02):
It's like I could. I could see and feel in just his
communications that he was making changes here, like in the
mind for himself and for his family.
And you know, one of the things that I I need to figure myself
out but I haven't is he was making those conscious changes

(53:24):
in himself, whereas I'm perhaps struggling to do the same for
myself and I do beat myself up for that reason.
Hmm. It's like if if I look at Blake
like the biggest, strongest guy he saw a therapist.
Why haven't I? I'm not the biggest.

(53:46):
I'm not the strongest. If he can do it, surely I can.
And you will, Yeah. I don't know if that answered
the question or if I just went around in a circle.
No, you answered it perfectly. Your vulnerability is inspiring
to say the least. Alright, so probably 3-3

(54:06):
questions. Um.
What's the number one piece of advice you would give to someone
who's supporting Someone Like You through grief?
Because a lot of people can clamup and not know how to interact,
what to say and do what? What do you crave off people
around you during this time? Normality.

(54:29):
I'll share a good story because my my partner, for example,
there was a lot of times where, you know, she wouldn't know what
to say. And I can totally empathise with
that because had I been in her position, I wouldn't have known
what to say either. I remember I had three or four
weeks of teaching yoga after Blake passed away, and why that

(54:50):
was so raw for me coming back isbecause like I mentioned
previously, I was on the way to go teach a workshop when I found
out that Blake passed away. And you know, one of my good
friends, Amy, that I work with, she had to call everyone and let
them know so all the students knew exactly what happened.
And just before I taught that first class, coming back, I knew

(55:13):
that everyone was gonna come through the door, give me the
puppy dog eyes, give me the sad look.
And I was like, fuck, this is not what I need from 30 people
right before I'm going to go andstand in front of them for an
hour and be vulnerable. And there was one member, God
bless him, his name's Jason Greenwood.
He walked in, just smacked me onthe back and says get a mate,

(55:37):
glad to have you back. Just walk straight past me and I
was like fuck that is what I needed.
There's there is nothing that you can say to someone who has
lost someone. So don't try.
Just be there for them. Just be.
There. Don't try and fix it.
Don't try and fix it. Because whatever you're going to
say in relation to that grief isgoing to make that person think

(56:00):
about that grief. And when it's in those initial
stages, what I really needed wassomething to take my mind off
it. Yeah, yeah.
Distraction at the start. And then when you're ready,
that's when you start asking questions.
That enables you to feel processand let go.
Yeah, but that distraction can still, like, for example, my two

(56:23):
best friends, Jacob and Spencer.Like, we spent a lot of time in
that first week just talking shit, you know, having beers,
hitting golf balls. And in that, what can be
described as initial distraction, we started to share
stories about Blake and it became hilarious and fun whilst

(56:43):
still being sad. So I I think, yeah, I think just
just make people feel normal in a in a time that they really
don't feel normal. Yeah, rather than, you know,
calling attention to. It and there's probably
different. Well, I know that there's
different from a supporter psychology perspective,
different ways to interact with someone experiencing grief

(57:04):
depending on the stage that they're in.
So you know right away it is nottrying to fix it, not trying to
reassure them, make them feel better, being very normal, as
you say. And there's a process of, you
know, deep listening and grieving.
And hearing and sitting in and with and then there's a process
of, you know, celebrating and remembering and story sharing

(57:26):
and and they can all intertwine.But I think that the worst thing
you can do is avoid someone likethe plague and act really
different and make it this huge thing.
It's just leaning with confidence, either normally or
sincerely. But don't back away with
awkwardness. Right, back away, yeah.
I think what what helps so much is just being surrounded by
people. Yeah, we have a really big

(57:47):
family with lots and lots of cousins and just having so many
people around. Yeah, to to share memories and
to to to help out. Like with things that you don't
even think about. Like you don't think about food,
you don't think about cooking, you don't think about washing
your clothes, like to have people around to to help do
those things. So that would be another piece
of advice, like don't ask someone how you can help like if

(58:11):
you were. To just do it?
Just do it, Yeah. Just do it.
Yeah. And what is?
One thing that you would like. Someone to hear if they are
going through grief right now this this will sound silly

(58:33):
because I don't take my own advice but I would say talk to
someone but I don't mean that ingo and talk to a professional
immediately. One thing that that helped me so
much is I did share very vulnerable parts of my grief
online, like on Instagram specifically, and part of that

(58:57):
probably was because it helped me.
It helped me. I like to write.
I like to speak, but it helped me because from that a lot of
people shared similar stories and a lot of people, you know
reached out and said thank you so much for sharing.
I'm going through the same thing, but I don't have the

(59:18):
strength to share it, which is why I found it so necessary to
come on this podcast because in my dry mouthed, half crying,
rambling, maybe there's something that someone can take
away. Absolutely.
But that's easy to say if you have a following on social
media, if you have 3 followers and nobody's probably going to

(59:40):
see it. But I still think as somebody
who knows how easy it is to justretreat and just be by myself, I
always felt better when I was speaking to someone.
Amen. Brother, thank you so much.
I think that's a really nice place to leave it.
It's been. Truly special to share this

(01:00:03):
moment with you and to be allowed in to share some of the
moments you have with Blake. And I think for people
experiencing grief, it would be incredibly therapeutic and
cathartic to hear someone expressed this and almost have
an opportunity maybe as they're listening to relive some of
their memories. And if for whatever reason,

(01:00:26):
whoever's listening to this, it has allowed you to go back and
relive some of those memories and that might have brought up
some pain and tears, I think that that's OK.
In fact, it's somewhat healing, you know, together.
Right now what we're doing is we're disinfecting that wound.
We're honouring what was and where, creating space to allow
what can be. What does the what is the next

(01:00:48):
chapter without them here in thephysical world look like, whilst
always knowing that they're always here.
Because at the start you said when you looked in the mirror
you see him and I think there's going to come a day where you
look in the mirror, you see him and you smile instead of looking
in mirror seeing him and and making you sad.
Yeah, and I know that will happen, and I can't wait to to

(01:01:12):
check in with you and see what life is like when you know Blake
and Sam have become one. Because it will happen.
Thank you, brother. Thank you, my man.
Can I show you something please?Really quick?
Yeah, so. This stereo I have on my hand

(01:01:32):
over Rose. So the last time I saw Blake
alive was at my grandmother's funeral.
And me, Blake and my other brother, Josh.
We have this running unspoken joke where whenever we shake
each other's hand, we try to fucking break each other's hand.
And that last moment that I saw Blake, he had to go home.

(01:01:53):
And we shook each other's hands.And I tried to break his hand,
and he tried to break my hand and he looked at me in the eyes
and he said, oh, we're doing this.
Chloe. Like it was such a small moment.
But I still remember exactly where we were standing.
This was two months before he passed away.
Like, I don't remember the last time I saw the exact place.

(01:02:15):
I saw my mum, yeah, or my dad. But I remember exactly where
we're standing, exactly what he said to me.
And we all got a rose that day for Nana's funeral.
I had a rose in my left hand. I was shaking in my right hand.
So now every time I shake someone's hand.
I got to think of that moment. Very, very cool.
I might actually have to add 1 to me and steal your steal your

(01:02:38):
story, because that is fucking beautiful.
Yeah, it's cool and you're shaking.
You're trying to break someone'shand out of love.
Yeah, yeah. And it reminds you there's a lot
of love to give. Much love to you, brother.
Thank you again. Thank you bro.