September 5, 2025 • 37 mins
In this deeply personal episode of Heart on My Sleeve, Luke Cook sits down with neuro-transformational coach and keynote speaker Narissa Trindade to explore the heartbreak that doesn't come with a funeral but still requires mourning - separation and divorce from those we thought we'd be with forever.
Both hosts share their parallel journeys through relationship breakdown, discussing the power of surrendering not as defeat, but as an invitation into possibility. Narissa opens up about hitting rock bottom and the transformative reframe of "letting go of control to embrace what could be," while Luke reflects on how past traumas shaped his relationship patterns.
This raw, honest conversation offers hope to anyone facing major life transitions, reminding us that what's meant for us won't miss us, and sometimes the most courageous thing we can do is allow ourselves to float with the current instead of swimming against it.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
All right, run it. I wonder what you mean when you
use the word I use the word I I,I I kick a break.
We have an aversion to ourselvesand to what's happening inside
(00:21):
us, inside us. I've been very interested in
this problem for a long long time.
Something settles. Welcome to the Heart on my Sleep
podcast. I'm Luke Cook, and today's
conversation is one that feels especially close to home for me.
(00:43):
I'm joined by someone whose presence lights up every room,
but who also knows what it's like when the lights dim.
Nerissa Trinidad is a neurotransformational coach,
keynote speaker, author and founder of Speak for Impact and
Say Yes to You programmes. As non binary gay person of
colour, an ex carer and a coach to some of the world's top
(01:06):
speakers and leaders, Nerissa helps others show up in their
full truth. But today, we're here for their
truth. We're talking about the quiet
kind of grief today, the heartbreak that doesn't always
come with a funeral but still requires mourning.
We're talking about separation and divorce from the people that
(01:28):
we thought we'd be with forever.It requires self compassion and
healing and what it looks like to be able to surrender to those
feelings, not as a sign of defeat, but as an invitation
into possibility. Let's welcome Nerissa Trinidad
to the Heart of my Sleep podcast.
Welcome, Nerissa. Thank you so much, Cookie.
(01:49):
Thank you so much for that. That was such a beautiful
introduction and it's such a pleasure to be here, as always,
in conversation with you. When I said I feel the feels for
this conversation, I feel the feels.
Both Nerissa and I, we've been close friends for a long period
of time and I don't know why, but it was sort of like at the
same time, Narissa, both of us went through this separation
(02:09):
with the person that we thought we were going to be with for the
rest of our lives, right? And we held space for each
other. And today we get to hold space
again and help those that may belistening and going through
something similar. But Narissa, to kick these sort
of things off, you know, when you're not on stage or holding
space for others. I'm just keen to understand how
are you doing lately? And, and I mean really, how are
(02:30):
you doing lately? Yeah, no thank.
Thank you for asking. Like I think I'm, I'm honest,
I'm doing better at the moment. If I think about what it's been
like, I think I've been in a season of transition for a
while, a season of some big changes happening like like you
know, and you've been through aswell and you know, changes that
are happening I think personallyas well, but changes around as
(02:53):
well. And I think last year, I'd have
to say like, I probably hit a new level of my rock bottom, one
that I didn't see coming, one that I didn't think I was going
to hit, one that I didn't know was going to be as dark or as
deep as it went, but I did hit it.
(03:13):
And I think when you hit that level of rock bottom, the only
way is up. And I say, you know, when you've
got nothing to lose, you've got everything to gain.
And I started to have to start looking at it that way because
(03:34):
as long as I sat at the wrong bottom, there was nowhere else
to look. And when you start looking at,
hey, the only way is up and the only way from here is to gain
whatever I possibly can, Then you start looking at a season of
a different kind of change and adifferent kind of transition and
a different form of healing. And I think I'm still in a
season of healing. I'm still in a season of
(03:55):
transition. I don't think it's ever ever.
I think they're still healing and learning and growing every
day. But I think I'm, I'm doing a lot
better. I think I'm at peace with where
I am. I'm happier with where I am,
probably healthier. And yeah, continuing to heal and
grow and and whole space for myself whilst I continue to
(04:18):
whole space for everyone else and all the changes that
continue to occur. Thank you so much for sharing
that. I could hear it in your voice.
I can feel it in my own voice right now because I'm in that
same sort of shift as you. And the current season doesn't
always the current season we have to be honest with right?
Like you said, it's, it's not about our polished versions
(04:39):
right now, but the but the honest ones.
I remember when we spoke, when Iasked you if you're OK if we go
on this podcast together and talk about this, you spoke about
the power of the surrender and not as giving up, but as letting
go. What what did that look like in
your life and can you expand on that for me?
(05:01):
Yeah, yeah, I think it was, you know, it's it was quite a
powerful reframe that, you know,I sat with for a while and I've
kind of leaned into and, you know, for a long time.
Like, you know, I think people listening as well.
When we think of the word surrender, we think of it as a
negative connotation. Like it means like, you know,
you've reached almost like that that end point.
(05:22):
It means like you're giving up kind of means or even like
stagnation, you know, like there's a sense of hopelessness,
like there's no way forward. And you know, I'm surrendering.
But I think I want to invite people listening to to
reconsider this reframe around surrendering is actually letting
go of the control and actually surrendering into the
(05:43):
possibility of what could be, you know, and, and everything
that could be when we just let go of that control, when we just
release from that. And I think there's so much
pressure that we put on ourselves of how things should
be and how things must be. And I think when we say, you
know, it should be this way, there comes a lot of guilt and
(06:05):
shame with that. And we say when we say, like it
must be this way, I think there comes a lot of pressure and
anxiety. But when we look at the lens of
what it could be, there comes hope and possibility.
And I think that's the space of surrender that I want to sit in.
(06:26):
It's almost like when you no longer have to fight the
current, you're no longer swimming against it, but you're
just allowing yourself to float for a bit and seeing where the
current takes you, seeing where you could, you could go if you
just let go and stopped swimmingand stopped fighting.
And I think that's what I did. And it was really, really hard
(06:46):
because when you're in a constant state of fight mode,
not just fighting in a, in a negative context, but fighting
for the good, fighting for the relationship, fighting, you
know, in my case, to, to keep the person that I was with
alive, fighting for everything that you thought you want and
you can't have, fighting for thefuture that you want, whether
it's for yourself or the relationship.
(07:08):
And then eventually you'll let go and you think, OK, now what?
And when you eventually let go, you realise that it's in that
surrender that you open up the possibility of what that can be
for the other person, what it can be for yourself, and you
just allow it to flow. And I think in my life now,
that's what I'm leaning into absolutely realistically.
(07:29):
I mean, you know, I sold the house and I put everything in
storage and I'm just living one day at a time.
And I'm just leaning into where the path is going to take me.
And I'm just walking in alignment with wherever this
goes. And I'm no longer controlling
it. I'm no longer directing it.
I'm just totally surrendering towhat the plan is in my life.
And I'm just walking that part now, one day at a time.
(07:52):
And I'm seeing doors open that Ireally didn't think would open.
I'm walking out parts that I'm like, really, OK, let's see
where this goes. And you know, with that comes a
different sense of inner peace and inner peace where you're no
longer fighting or no longer wanting things to work out a
certain way, but you are just atpeace with however things
(08:15):
unfold. And I think I'm learning now
that, like, what's meant for me is not going to miss me.
And what misses me is probably not meant for me in this season
or isn't meant for me. And I think I'm just at peace
with that level of surrender at the moment.
That's beautifully put, and I needed to hear that myself today
(08:37):
Had a weekend, Nerissa, where I went into this, you know, you
know, things shouldn't be the way that they are and, you know,
not. Yeah, a bit of self sabotage in
my own mindset around certain things and places where I'm at
in my life at the moment. And that ability to surrender to
(08:57):
what is is such an important part.
So thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I want to stop.
Yeah, sorry. Sorry, sorry to cut.
Yeah, I just, I, I just heard you say the power to surrender
to what is. And that's so powerful because
we're often sitting in a space of like the what if rather than
(09:18):
the what is. And I think surrendering to what
is is. Yeah, just beautiful.
So thank you for saying that. A lot of this self sabotage and
a lot of this ability to be ableto surrender is about breaking
down the walls and the barriers of the personas that we have
held through the relationships that we've had.
(09:38):
You know, from from my perspective, you know, young
family, wife, provider, nurturer, like I had all these
different personas that I was holding on to that just
shattered. Yeah.
In that moment of shattering, and you would have experienced
this in your own version of whatthat shattering is going towards
(10:00):
the pain, is that the only way through do you feel?
Look, I can't, I can only speak from what my journey's been and
I don't want to kind of, you know, say that that's going to
be everybody's journey because each one is individual, right?
And I think like, you know, our journeys have been pretty
(10:21):
similar and we've held space foreach other, but even our
journeys have been different in in some way as well.
But I do think what you said about like the true bit, I think
some way in some way, shape or form, there is no other way but
true. I think, you know, you can't
dodge it, you can't go around it, you can't not deal with it,
you can't put it aside. Like these kind of things are
(10:43):
big life changing events, right?And I think when you're
questioning, like you said, you know, everything that you should
be, that you must be everything that society puts on us in terms
of identity. Like, you know, you are, you
know, a young father, the the the male of the house, the
provider, you know what you should be, what you must be in
that relationship. And you know, even even for
myself, like, you know, in the role of a carer and you know,
(11:04):
everything that I was upholding in that relationship.
And I think when you step out ofthat role, it's almost like the
pillars of the house, you know, and, and you know, like how I
felt was that I was holding things up and I was, I was in
the house trying to hold all those like keep the ceiling from
not crumbling. And I was like holding up all
(11:25):
the walls while bricks were justfalling around and my hands were
getting weaker and the pressure was getting like way more.
And I just felt like there was so much coming around that I
couldn't hold it up anymore. And I just had to let it fall.
I, I had to fall myself and I had to let the pieces around me
fall. And it was only when it fell and
(11:48):
I was actually then standing on the rubble and on the mess that
I could have a different perspective of that.
But as long as you're inside trying to hold everything up,
you, you can't see that perspective.
And I think in some ways we haveto give ourselves the ability to
to move through that, whether it's grief, whether it's
sadness, whether it's expectation of what needs to be
(12:10):
and and all the different, I suppose, emotions that come up
with that, right. But we have to allow ourselves
to just move through it sometimes to step outside of it
if it needs to be, to have that different perspective, then come
back and go, yeah, what does it now look like when I stand and
look at it from a different perspective?
What does it look like when I'm standing on it rather than in
it? I know many of us feel like we
(12:31):
need to control every situation that we can, that we can.
And in these moments of separation from those that we,
you know, wanted to build the remaining of our lives together
with, how important is it to soften that blow a little bit
and say, I don't have all the answers right now and that is
OK? Oh, that is the biggest thing
that I've had to learn is self compassion and just giving
(12:58):
myself what I've given everyone else all along.
You know, I think, you know, when you say you've been in all
of those roles holding everyone else up, it's now your turn to
hold you up. It's now your turn to be that
person for yourself. And sometimes in separation,
it's so hard because you know, you're stepping away from the
role that you've been in, but also you're trying to find what
(13:19):
your new role is. What is that new identity?
What if I, if I'm not the wife, if I'm not the carer, if you're
not the husband, if you're not the parent, I mean, he's gonna
be the parent. But you know, if you're not in
that typical role that you were in before, what is your new
identity? What is your new role now?
And, and sometimes we put so much pressure in that self
sabotage thing, but also, you know, we don't look at it from a
(13:42):
lens of care and compassion. And I think that's one of the
things I've had to learn so muchis just allowing myself to sit
in a space of not having the answers, sit in a space of just
being overwhelmed by emotion. Sitting in a space where just
days where just tears just flowed and allowing it to flow.
Sitting in, you know, space where there were days when I
(14:03):
didn't want to get out of bed, when days when I didn't want to
turn my camera on. And, you know, I'm a speaker and
I'm a coach. And last year there was a big
period of time where every time I turn my camera on, I would
just choke. Like words would just not come
out, like I couldn't speak. And it's the thing that I do.
And I'm like, how can I not do the thing that I just do so
naturally? And it was just giving myself
(14:26):
grace and compassion in that period to go.
You know, your body is feeling and holding something that your
mind and your heart right now can't process.
And you have to allow your body to move through that emotion and
move through everything that it's been holding and just give
it space and give it grace and give it compassion.
And I think when we allow ourselves and our body to have
that space, it then moves and itthen shifts.
(14:48):
And you know that there could bestill emotions around grief and
sadness and processing a whole lot of things.
But I think your body will find its space and it will find its
grounding and it will find its new identity in that.
And the biggest thing is just giving yourself space and giving
yourself grace in that. Feeling that comment as well.
(15:13):
You know, there's a part of LukeCook who goes hurry the F up and
find that opening in that space now.
But it's obviously my body's telling me that there's still a
bit of grieving and components that I need to just sit with and
let it release. Yeah, and I think the, the time
thing is a is a big thing and you know, it comes up even with
(15:33):
people that I coach and I talk to and they're like, you know, I
feel like I should have been over this by now.
Like, you know, it's been a year.
Why am I still feeling like this?
So it's been 6 months and I feellike I should be here by now.
And like, my question is where is that time frame coming from?
Like how can we put a time frameon healing?
How can we put a time frame on this thing of getting over or
(15:57):
being over or our bodies, our minds are up, our hearts not
feeling what it feels like? How can we put a time frame on
feeling or emotion? You know, I think the, the
moment we do that, then that's when you're beating yourself up
because you're like, well, it's six months and I'm not feeling
how I should Bam, you know, it'sa year and I feel like I should
be where I, I wanted to be in inthe feeling sense, you know, you
(16:18):
can have goals and things you want to achieve, but it's like,
how can you put a time frame on that?
Like you've just got to allow yourself to feel like, you know,
healing is not linear. It's going to come up in
different ways. It's going to come up in
different times. And we've just got to allow our
body to process and to feel. You know, my coach says
something really powerful, Sean,when he says emotions buried
(16:41):
don't die. Nah.
Emotions buried don't die. And I think when we put time
frames on things, all we're saying is I'm not going to feel
that right now because I should be over that by now.
And where? Where is it going to go?
That is such a prominent quote that because they don't die,
(17:04):
right? And they can appear at the most
weird time and and that's the thing about relationships,
right? And, and you know, the
relationship that you established with your partner
and, and vice versa with mine, there's triggers that happen.
It could be a song, it could be a place that you used to go to.
(17:25):
How have you been able to navigate that?
Yeah, I think it's just, you know, allowing those feelings to
come up. You know, there's songs, there's
places, there's dates, there's anniversaries.
There's so much that you build. There's friendships, there's
people that's, that's everything, you know, like
you've built a life with this person.
You, your, your lives are intertwined.
(17:46):
And when and when you separate, there's so much that comes with
that. You know, when you, you know,
kids as well, There's so much more that comes with it.
And I think there's no right wayor wrong way.
It's just whatever feels a line for, for each individual.
And I think I go back to that thing where you've, you've just
got to allow yourself to, to feel what, what comes up.
You've got to allow yourself thetime, the space be in the
(18:08):
surroundings and just alliance because there's no other way to
heal unless you feel. And you know, recently I, I sold
the house and I was moving out from it and it was close to
settlement and I was having to pack and things were all over
the floor and everywhere. You know, my mom had recently
left and she was in India havingkittens because she's like, how
are you going to make this move date?
Like it's not going to happen. And amidst all of that, like I
(18:31):
was having these big feelings because it was moving out of a
home that I thought would be ourfamily home.
I thought I like, you know, it wasn't just a separation.
Now it's like, what is the housemean?
What does it mean to move out from this?
This is a place that's held me up while I've been holding this
person up. And I just had to give myself
time. I'm like, let the stuff be on
the floor because I need to process this.
(18:53):
And I remember just turning on the camera and I just did a
video journal and I just allowedeverything that was in me just
to come out. And I was like, I don't know
what whether I'm going to share this later or not or whatever,
but I just need to process. I need to hold space for me and
let the stuff be on the floor because what's better?
The stuff on the floor or me, you know, and it's, and it's
(19:14):
that it's like, you know, being,and I think with this podcast,
you know, being like hard on my sleeve, It's so important to
allow ourselves the time to havea hard on our sleeve and not
going. I need to hold this all
together. And I'm not, I can't cry in this
moment or I can't feel in this moment.
It's it's creating space in our day to allow ourselves to feel
because that's the only way we're going to heal, the only
(19:34):
way we're going to move through it.
Marissa, can you take me to the moment when you realise your
relationship was shifting and what you needed to face within
yourself? Like is was there a moment or
was it a, was it, was it, was itjust a gradual thing?
Yeah, I think, I think it was both both gradual and then and
there was a moment and then after that many moments, you
(19:58):
know, I think with any relationship and you've probably
experienced this too, I think there's a lot of.
Verbal and and probably non verbal integrity contracts that
we have. And I think, you know, there's
also like a relationship compassas well.
And in some way there was a point where it was in 2023 that
(20:20):
I felt that that integrity contract kind of broke in a way
and the compass wasn't aligned. And I think after that, that
year was just trying to align itbecause of course you want to
give everything that you can to go, OK, you know, this is a
person I want to spend the rest of my life with and I'm going to
try everything I possibly can tomake this work.
And it's like, OK, let's realigncontracts.
(20:42):
Let's have conversations. Let's talk about how do we, how
do we realign like my compass isone way and yours or the other.
Is there a way we can realign our compass into where we need
to be going as as a partnership?And when there was a realisation
that our compasses weren't aligning, I think that was the
moment when it was like, hey, you know what?
(21:03):
There's nothing that we can do to align this.
And I think that was the moment when we realised, you know, it's
better that we're actually healthier, better individuals
when we're not going to be together.
And I think I'm grateful that werealised that before it got
ugly, before it got nasty, before, because it could have.
(21:23):
I'm just grateful that we were both able to realise it in the
moment and go, OK, hey, we're not in that space now.
And it's not going to ever get back to what it was in
alignment. And I think it's better that we
just go our separate ways. And I think, you know, that's
why I say in some ways it was mutual.
And, you know, we've joked aboutthis.
If this was mutual, what is not,you know, But yeah, I think I
(21:46):
think that that was the moment. And it's the realisation that
compasses aren't aligning anymore.
Again, I feel that because it is, it is very similar in a lot
of the narrative and you know, from my own personal journey, I
was, I probably would have been the stoic that would have stayed
(22:07):
in the relationship and just fought through it.
But if it wasn't for my ex wife to, you know, bring this up with
me to make me feel that, you know, the feelings that I've I
was feeling as well were similar.
And again, like you, we've we'vemanaged to part ways being very
amicable. And it's not about us.
It's about the girls and ego to the side.
(22:30):
But it's but where I'm going with that, Nerissa, is that what
I've had to navigate wasn't actually the relationship that I
was in with Felicity. It's dealing with a lot of past
traumas that have led to the situations that I was expressing
in my relationship with Felicity.
And owning that myself has been such a critical part of my
(22:51):
healing journey is to actually even go deeper because a lot of
the ways that I showed up wasn'tjust about in the relationship
itself. It was got to do with things
that I experienced as a kid whenI lost my dad and I had to
become a people pleaser and everything.
I don't like confrontation and Idon't like, I don't like any of
that because of those moments that happened as a kid.
(23:13):
Did you actually explore? Because I know you've been
through a lot in your life. Yeah, yeah.
That just resonates so deeply with the relationship with
everything that I do with. Yeah, just everything you said
just now. And it's it's so true.
Like, you know, we journey through life with everything
that's happened to us. We all have a story, right?
We all have a journey. We all have a past.
(23:33):
And as we move through, we put on certain layers and we put on
certain lenses, and then we lookat life and the world through
those layers and through those lenses.
And it's just natural, right? I don't think anyone journeying
through doesn't have layers or doesn't have lenses.
It's just about the acknowledgement awareness that
that is. And then when we meet someone in
a relationship and we start being in a relationship with
somebody, now my layers are in relationship with your layers.
(23:56):
My lenses are looking at your lenses, right?
And that's how we're in relationship.
And I think the moment somethinghappens when one of us starts
removing layers, now there's a different layer that's talking
to a layer that you met before. And now how are our layers
meeting, right. And when you think about like
all the trauma, all the work that we do, all the stuff that
(24:16):
we're unpacking, it's can this person meet me now where I'm
going? Can I meet that person where
they're going in their healing journey, in their transformation
journey, in their journey of moving, of removing all the
layers? And I think so much comes from
that. And absolutely there were things
that that triggered me through the separation.
There were things that triggeredme even before, before that and
(24:40):
after it as well. You know, and I talk about this
concept called refinding you, which is, you know, the tag that
I was talking to you about, but it's the, it's the concept of
refinding the version of you before everything else happened,
before the world told you who you should be, how you should
be, all the life stuff that happened to us, you know, going
back to find that little inner child version of us.
(25:02):
And I think when we can go back and operate from that space to
remove those layers, remove those lenses and refine that
version of us and then be in relationship, then it's a whole
different, different level rightof now who you're
relationshiping with, right? Because it's just those
different levels of different layers and different lenses that
are now communicating and talking to each other.
(25:24):
Beautifully put and beautifully said Question for you.
There's someone in the LGBTQIA plus community.
Did you feel extra pressure around what your relationship
represented and did that impact you in any way?
Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I hadn't, I hadn't
thought about it that way. But yeah, I think I can only
(25:47):
speak from from my perspective in this.
And I think given everything that I had fought for to be in
the relationship, given everything that I had stood for,
you know, all the family stuff, all the people that I had, you
know, had to say, hey, this is who I am and this is the person
I want to be with. And it felt like there was more
of an investment in some ways. And I'm not saying anybody
(26:09):
else's investment is less right,but I'm just saying from my
perspective, it just felt like Inow have everything that I've
fought for to be. And now I'm almost releasing
that fight and saying, Hey, thisis no longer, you know, what I
want. And you know, from my
perspective, a lot of people hadeven prayed for my healing, you
(26:32):
know, like that this wouldn't bewhere I end up.
So there's a lot of, you know, again, lenses that you've got to
look through, a lot of perspectives that you've got to,
you know, look through. And I think it's just going,
this is not, you know, this is not occurring because someone
prayed that I should be walking a different path, right?
This is occurring because this is what's meant for me and it's
in alignment with me. And it's about challenging the
(26:54):
narratives that do come up and the stories that we do tell
ourselves. And I think they come up in
different contexts. They can be cultural.
They can be, you know, driven bysociety and societal
expectations of where we should be and what we should be doing.
But I think it's more around just you having that inner
dialogue with yourself and beingin alignment with yourself
around the reasons why you're moving and the reasons why
(27:15):
you're taking the steps you are.And it's not because someone
else tells you you should, but because you know that's an
alignment for you. I've.
Got a question about Well, let's, let's go to this.
What's the truth you're standingin now that maybe you weren't
ready to hold before? Yeah, this one hits.
(27:43):
I think there's I think there's a truth that that I'm worthy and
I'm enough no matter what, that I don't have to be a certain
somebody. I don't have to show up a
certain way. I don't have to be the carer,
the wife, the person that has all the answers, that shows up
(28:04):
perfectly every time, that is able to hold the crumbling
building, that I'm able to let it all fall, that I'm able to
fall myself and knowing that I can get back up again and
rebuild from, you know, from rock bottom.
And I think that's a truth that maybe I didn't know as deeply
(28:25):
and maybe I've had to relearn a number of times, but I feel like
I'm more grounded in it now. And I think there's a truth that
it's no longer external. It's internal for me.
Like it's, I think there's so much that we seek externally,
whether that's validation, whether that's support.
And this is in no way saying that not to reach out for help.
(28:49):
Like that's something I absolutely say, like you reach
out for help, like that's not something you need to do alone.
But it's, you know, I think we look, whether it's the society,
whether it's the people, whetherit's, you know, how many likes
you get on your social media forso much validation in today's
world. And I think there's a truth in
me that I'm not working on anyone's timeline now.
I'm not living life on anyone else's dial but my heart.
(29:11):
And there's and, you know, peacethat comes from that.
That yeah, it's just groundings.It's beautiful, really
beautiful. The moving forward, Nerissa,
because I'm battling with this at the moment as well, right?
Like the divorce papers were signed and everything's done now
from my side. And I sent off a couple of text
(29:33):
messages to friends and they said, oh, great, so, you know,
get back on the waggon cookie. And it's just like, well, no,
that I it's not a celebration. I never will.
I ever say it's a celebration togo through a divorce, especially
when you still care for that person.
You still care for them, but that that even that thinking of
(29:56):
wanting to get into another relationship is like priority
stack #9654 in my list. How do you go about that next
phase of your life and the next relationship?
Yeah. You know, I think that's that's
also like very natural like, andI think, you know, friends and
family and all of them, they mean well.
(30:16):
They want to see us happy. They want to see us with
somebody. And I've had the whole thing
when you're getting on the apps and I'm like, Oh my God, no,
that's that's just not me. It's just.
Not. I'm not getting on the app.
I'm not getting. Like, you know, when you're
going out, when you're meeting people, when Are you ready?
When like, you know, it's all these questions and you know,
like I'm sitting with rings hereand it's, it's really weird.
I don't know if you feel this, but I still automatically just
(30:39):
put a ring on my ring finger andI've got to take it off.
And I'm like, Hey, that's it's weird for me because I'm so used
to having a ring on that singer and even just taking off my
ring, it was not an easy thing to do it, it was it, it was
hard. It was a significant moment for
me when I made a very conscious decision to take it off because
it was right in terms of that inthe relationship and where we
(31:01):
were at that point. But you know, even now, like
when I put rings on, I'll put one on there and I'm like, Oh,
you know, it's not. And it's just a a weird thing.
And it comes from, Hey, I'm going out now and I don't want a
ring on that finger. But, you know, when, when is the
time ever? Like what?
What is the right time? Like, who knows really?
For me, I'm not putting pressureon that.
(31:22):
For me, I'm in a very much in a season of just refining myself.
And I think I want to give myself time and space and just
grow and heal and just be all the things I want to be.
And look, in that season, if I find someone and someone finds
me and, you know, our layers andlenses match, Yeah, I'm open.
I'm open to wherever that takes me, but for me there isn't a,
(31:45):
you know, hey, by December I need to have been on three apps
and met 5 people and got on X amount of dates, you know?
That's definitely, definitely not part of the surrendering
plan. Yeah, no, I get it.
I get it. It feels exhausting for me to
even think about that, in all honesty.
But I suppose it's until you canget a point within yourself, you
(32:06):
can't be open to those opportunities to arise.
And I think that's the work thatwe're doing right now, both you
and I is just really focused on making sure that within is
strong enough to withhold the next.
So yeah, I really do appreciate that.
Nerissa, You know, someone mightbe sitting on the edge of
letting go of something themselves right now.
(32:26):
You know, whether that's of a person, a plan or or even a part
of themselves. What would you want to offer
them from your own experience, especially in the work that you
do as well? I'd say a couple of things.
The first thing I'd say, becauseyou so beautifully asked the
question and said about letting go, the first thing I'd say is,
you know, when we think about letting go, the hardest thing in
(32:49):
letting go is actually holding on, not the letting go.
Because I think it's when you let go, there comes release and
there comes ease and everything is allowed to flow.
But when we're holding on, there's the tightness of the
grip, there's the pain, there's the tears, there's the fears,
there's everything that comes from what will be if I let go.
(33:12):
And the hardest thing in lettinggo is the holding on.
So I just want to offer that perspective to someone sitting
in that, just to let that group go slightly.
But on the other side of that, the thing I want to offer people
is hope. Because I think it can get dark
sometimes. It can get lonely, it can get
(33:34):
bumpy, it can get uncertain. And I think it gets a little
scary when we lose hope of what can be because of it's
everything we've known. And now it's like, what now?
And I, I came up with this, thisacronym for hope that I use so
HOP, which says hold on, possibilities exist.
(33:56):
Hold on possibilities exist. And that's just something I want
to leave people with that, you know, no matter how dark or
crazy or scary or uncertain it looks right now, like hold on,
hold on for another minute, holdon for another day, hold on.
Reach outreach out to friends. There are so many people out
there that can help. You know, you don't have to do
(34:16):
this alone. As you've seen, like, you know,
Cookie and I are both going through something similar.
And the only way we knew that wewere going through this because
we chose to speak about it. If we just chose to speak about,
we intend to get on a call and talk about, we would have never
known that we're both journey through it.
But I think we both went, hey, this is what I'm going through.
And it was through that conversation that we realised,
hey, this is something else thatwe can support each other
(34:37):
through. And it's been hugely, you know,
it's been a huge support for me knowing that you're journeying
this with me. And I'm sure it's helped you as
well. And I think just, you know,
having conversations with people, just, you know, wearing
your heart on your sleeve is so important.
You know, we don't have to be perfect.
We don't have to hold it all in.Just allow things to flow
because it's in conversation that you get to know so much
(34:58):
more. We've got a campaign out at the
moment which is I'm not OK. The three most powerful words
you can say and the thing about what you've heard today on this
podcast with Nerissa and the narrative that you'll
continuously hear from Heart on My Sleeve and all the other
hosts and guests that we appear is that, you know, life as
Nerissa is stated, can be hard. You can hit rock bottom when you
(35:20):
hit rock bottom, just make sure you're looking up because it's
not the big things that will change, but it's a little one
shifts the the power of 1 in everything.
The one moment, the one action, the one conversation, the one
idea. You know, if we focus on the
one, it makes it easiest, easierfor us to get up.
And it doesn't have to be the big, like you said in the
(35:41):
research. It could be I'm just going to
spend a weekend in my pyjamas and I'm going to let it all out,
right? Powerful moment, isn't it?
Right, right. That, Oh, how many weekends have
I had in my pyjamas? Let me just think.
But you know, it's those, it's those moments where you just
say, you know what I'm not goingto today, Like, you know, I'm
not going to turn the light on. I'm not going to open the
(36:01):
blinds. I'm not going to cook a meal.
Like I'm just going to let me be.
Just let, let yourself be, let yourself feel, let yourself
heal. You know, we don't have to be a
certain way. And it's in those moments where
you just give in to that feeling.
I think in in order to surrender, I just want to say in
order to surrender you have to give in to that feeling to be
able to surrender. Nerissa, it's been absolutely
(36:23):
incredible having you on the Heart of My Slave podcast.
So I just want to say thank you,my friend, for opening up and
sharing and holding space with me today.
I needed that, and hopefully everyone else that listened
today needed that as well. It's been a real pleasure,
Nerissa. Where can people find out more
about you Nerissa? I'm on social desk Nerissa
Trinidad on LinkedIn, Instagram,Facebook.
My website is www.nerissatrinidad.com.
(36:47):
Amazing. Thank you everyone for listening
in to today's podcast. We'll catch you soon.
See you later. Bye.
My emotions have a natural tendency to dissipate unless
they get reinforced. And so if there's more thoughts,
more stories, more intentions that come along.
So the act of how am I leaving it alone?
Is an act of not act, Adding more stories, adding fuel to it.
(37:09):
So it might not go away in 2 minutes, but it then begins to
relax and dissipate. And so rather than being the
person who has to fix it, we've become the person who makes
space for the heart, the mind, to relax and settle away itself.
All right, run it. I wonder what you mean when you
use the word I use the word I I,I I kick a break.
We have an aversion to ourselvesand to what's happening inside
(00:21):
us, inside us. I've been very interested in
this problem for a long long time.
Something settles. Welcome to the Heart on my Sleep
podcast. I'm Luke Cook, and today's
conversation is one that feels especially close to home for me.
(00:43):
I'm joined by someone whose presence lights up every room,
but who also knows what it's like when the lights dim.
Nerissa Trinidad is a neurotransformational coach,
keynote speaker, author and founder of Speak for Impact and
Say Yes to You programmes. As non binary gay person of
colour, an ex carer and a coach to some of the world's top
(01:06):
speakers and leaders, Nerissa helps others show up in their
full truth. But today, we're here for their
truth. We're talking about the quiet
kind of grief today, the heartbreak that doesn't always
come with a funeral but still requires mourning.
We're talking about separation and divorce from the people that
(01:28):
we thought we'd be with forever.It requires self compassion and
healing and what it looks like to be able to surrender to those
feelings, not as a sign of defeat, but as an invitation
into possibility. Let's welcome Nerissa Trinidad
to the Heart of my Sleep podcast.
Welcome, Nerissa. Thank you so much, Cookie.
(01:49):
Thank you so much for that. That was such a beautiful
introduction and it's such a pleasure to be here, as always,
in conversation with you. When I said I feel the feels for
this conversation, I feel the feels.
Both Nerissa and I, we've been close friends for a long period
of time and I don't know why, but it was sort of like at the
same time, Narissa, both of us went through this separation
(02:09):
with the person that we thought we were going to be with for the
rest of our lives, right? And we held space for each
other. And today we get to hold space
again and help those that may belistening and going through
something similar. But Narissa, to kick these sort
of things off, you know, when you're not on stage or holding
space for others. I'm just keen to understand how
are you doing lately? And, and I mean really, how are
(02:30):
you doing lately? Yeah, no thank.
Thank you for asking. Like I think I'm, I'm honest,
I'm doing better at the moment. If I think about what it's been
like, I think I've been in a season of transition for a
while, a season of some big changes happening like like you
know, and you've been through aswell and you know, changes that
are happening I think personallyas well, but changes around as
(02:53):
well. And I think last year, I'd have
to say like, I probably hit a new level of my rock bottom, one
that I didn't see coming, one that I didn't think I was going
to hit, one that I didn't know was going to be as dark or as
deep as it went, but I did hit it.
(03:13):
And I think when you hit that level of rock bottom, the only
way is up. And I say, you know, when you've
got nothing to lose, you've got everything to gain.
And I started to have to start looking at it that way because
(03:34):
as long as I sat at the wrong bottom, there was nowhere else
to look. And when you start looking at,
hey, the only way is up and the only way from here is to gain
whatever I possibly can, Then you start looking at a season of
a different kind of change and adifferent kind of transition and
a different form of healing. And I think I'm still in a
season of healing. I'm still in a season of
(03:55):
transition. I don't think it's ever ever.
I think they're still healing and learning and growing every
day. But I think I'm, I'm doing a lot
better. I think I'm at peace with where
I am. I'm happier with where I am,
probably healthier. And yeah, continuing to heal and
grow and and whole space for myself whilst I continue to
(04:18):
whole space for everyone else and all the changes that
continue to occur. Thank you so much for sharing
that. I could hear it in your voice.
I can feel it in my own voice right now because I'm in that
same sort of shift as you. And the current season doesn't
always the current season we have to be honest with right?
Like you said, it's, it's not about our polished versions
(04:39):
right now, but the but the honest ones.
I remember when we spoke, when Iasked you if you're OK if we go
on this podcast together and talk about this, you spoke about
the power of the surrender and not as giving up, but as letting
go. What what did that look like in
your life and can you expand on that for me?
(05:01):
Yeah, yeah, I think it was, you know, it's it was quite a
powerful reframe that, you know,I sat with for a while and I've
kind of leaned into and, you know, for a long time.
Like, you know, I think people listening as well.
When we think of the word surrender, we think of it as a
negative connotation. Like it means like, you know,
you've reached almost like that that end point.
(05:22):
It means like you're giving up kind of means or even like
stagnation, you know, like there's a sense of hopelessness,
like there's no way forward. And you know, I'm surrendering.
But I think I want to invite people listening to to
reconsider this reframe around surrendering is actually letting
go of the control and actually surrendering into the
(05:43):
possibility of what could be, you know, and, and everything
that could be when we just let go of that control, when we just
release from that. And I think there's so much
pressure that we put on ourselves of how things should
be and how things must be. And I think when we say, you
know, it should be this way, there comes a lot of guilt and
(06:05):
shame with that. And we say when we say, like it
must be this way, I think there comes a lot of pressure and
anxiety. But when we look at the lens of
what it could be, there comes hope and possibility.
And I think that's the space of surrender that I want to sit in.
(06:26):
It's almost like when you no longer have to fight the
current, you're no longer swimming against it, but you're
just allowing yourself to float for a bit and seeing where the
current takes you, seeing where you could, you could go if you
just let go and stopped swimmingand stopped fighting.
And I think that's what I did. And it was really, really hard
(06:46):
because when you're in a constant state of fight mode,
not just fighting in a, in a negative context, but fighting
for the good, fighting for the relationship, fighting, you
know, in my case, to, to keep the person that I was with
alive, fighting for everything that you thought you want and
you can't have, fighting for thefuture that you want, whether
it's for yourself or the relationship.
(07:08):
And then eventually you'll let go and you think, OK, now what?
And when you eventually let go, you realise that it's in that
surrender that you open up the possibility of what that can be
for the other person, what it can be for yourself, and you
just allow it to flow. And I think in my life now,
that's what I'm leaning into absolutely realistically.
(07:29):
I mean, you know, I sold the house and I put everything in
storage and I'm just living one day at a time.
And I'm just leaning into where the path is going to take me.
And I'm just walking in alignment with wherever this
goes. And I'm no longer controlling
it. I'm no longer directing it.
I'm just totally surrendering towhat the plan is in my life.
And I'm just walking that part now, one day at a time.
(07:52):
And I'm seeing doors open that Ireally didn't think would open.
I'm walking out parts that I'm like, really, OK, let's see
where this goes. And you know, with that comes a
different sense of inner peace and inner peace where you're no
longer fighting or no longer wanting things to work out a
certain way, but you are just atpeace with however things
(08:15):
unfold. And I think I'm learning now
that, like, what's meant for me is not going to miss me.
And what misses me is probably not meant for me in this season
or isn't meant for me. And I think I'm just at peace
with that level of surrender at the moment.
That's beautifully put, and I needed to hear that myself today
(08:37):
Had a weekend, Nerissa, where I went into this, you know, you
know, things shouldn't be the way that they are and, you know,
not. Yeah, a bit of self sabotage in
my own mindset around certain things and places where I'm at
in my life at the moment. And that ability to surrender to
(08:57):
what is is such an important part.
So thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I want to stop.
Yeah, sorry. Sorry, sorry to cut.
Yeah, I just, I, I just heard you say the power to surrender
to what is. And that's so powerful because
we're often sitting in a space of like the what if rather than
(09:18):
the what is. And I think surrendering to what
is is. Yeah, just beautiful.
So thank you for saying that. A lot of this self sabotage and
a lot of this ability to be ableto surrender is about breaking
down the walls and the barriers of the personas that we have
held through the relationships that we've had.
(09:38):
You know, from from my perspective, you know, young
family, wife, provider, nurturer, like I had all these
different personas that I was holding on to that just
shattered. Yeah.
In that moment of shattering, and you would have experienced
this in your own version of whatthat shattering is going towards
(10:00):
the pain, is that the only way through do you feel?
Look, I can't, I can only speak from what my journey's been and
I don't want to kind of, you know, say that that's going to
be everybody's journey because each one is individual, right?
And I think like, you know, our journeys have been pretty
(10:21):
similar and we've held space foreach other, but even our
journeys have been different in in some way as well.
But I do think what you said about like the true bit, I think
some way in some way, shape or form, there is no other way but
true. I think, you know, you can't
dodge it, you can't go around it, you can't not deal with it,
you can't put it aside. Like these kind of things are
(10:43):
big life changing events, right?And I think when you're
questioning, like you said, you know, everything that you should
be, that you must be everything that society puts on us in terms
of identity. Like, you know, you are, you
know, a young father, the the the male of the house, the
provider, you know what you should be, what you must be in
that relationship. And you know, even even for
myself, like, you know, in the role of a carer and you know,
(11:04):
everything that I was upholding in that relationship.
And I think when you step out ofthat role, it's almost like the
pillars of the house, you know, and, and you know, like how I
felt was that I was holding things up and I was, I was in
the house trying to hold all those like keep the ceiling from
not crumbling. And I was like holding up all
(11:25):
the walls while bricks were justfalling around and my hands were
getting weaker and the pressure was getting like way more.
And I just felt like there was so much coming around that I
couldn't hold it up anymore. And I just had to let it fall.
I, I had to fall myself and I had to let the pieces around me
fall. And it was only when it fell and
(11:48):
I was actually then standing on the rubble and on the mess that
I could have a different perspective of that.
But as long as you're inside trying to hold everything up,
you, you can't see that perspective.
And I think in some ways we haveto give ourselves the ability to
to move through that, whether it's grief, whether it's
sadness, whether it's expectation of what needs to be
(12:10):
and and all the different, I suppose, emotions that come up
with that, right. But we have to allow ourselves
to just move through it sometimes to step outside of it
if it needs to be, to have that different perspective, then come
back and go, yeah, what does it now look like when I stand and
look at it from a different perspective?
What does it look like when I'm standing on it rather than in
it? I know many of us feel like we
(12:31):
need to control every situation that we can, that we can.
And in these moments of separation from those that we,
you know, wanted to build the remaining of our lives together
with, how important is it to soften that blow a little bit
and say, I don't have all the answers right now and that is
OK? Oh, that is the biggest thing
that I've had to learn is self compassion and just giving
(12:58):
myself what I've given everyone else all along.
You know, I think, you know, when you say you've been in all
of those roles holding everyone else up, it's now your turn to
hold you up. It's now your turn to be that
person for yourself. And sometimes in separation,
it's so hard because you know, you're stepping away from the
role that you've been in, but also you're trying to find what
(13:19):
your new role is. What is that new identity?
What if I, if I'm not the wife, if I'm not the carer, if you're
not the husband, if you're not the parent, I mean, he's gonna
be the parent. But you know, if you're not in
that typical role that you were in before, what is your new
identity? What is your new role now?
And, and sometimes we put so much pressure in that self
sabotage thing, but also, you know, we don't look at it from a
(13:42):
lens of care and compassion. And I think that's one of the
things I've had to learn so muchis just allowing myself to sit
in a space of not having the answers, sit in a space of just
being overwhelmed by emotion. Sitting in a space where just
days where just tears just flowed and allowing it to flow.
Sitting in, you know, space where there were days when I
(14:03):
didn't want to get out of bed, when days when I didn't want to
turn my camera on. And, you know, I'm a speaker and
I'm a coach. And last year there was a big
period of time where every time I turn my camera on, I would
just choke. Like words would just not come
out, like I couldn't speak. And it's the thing that I do.
And I'm like, how can I not do the thing that I just do so
naturally? And it was just giving myself
(14:26):
grace and compassion in that period to go.
You know, your body is feeling and holding something that your
mind and your heart right now can't process.
And you have to allow your body to move through that emotion and
move through everything that it's been holding and just give
it space and give it grace and give it compassion.
And I think when we allow ourselves and our body to have
that space, it then moves and itthen shifts.
(14:48):
And you know that there could bestill emotions around grief and
sadness and processing a whole lot of things.
But I think your body will find its space and it will find its
grounding and it will find its new identity in that.
And the biggest thing is just giving yourself space and giving
yourself grace in that. Feeling that comment as well.
(15:13):
You know, there's a part of LukeCook who goes hurry the F up and
find that opening in that space now.
But it's obviously my body's telling me that there's still a
bit of grieving and components that I need to just sit with and
let it release. Yeah, and I think the, the time
thing is a is a big thing and you know, it comes up even with
(15:33):
people that I coach and I talk to and they're like, you know, I
feel like I should have been over this by now.
Like, you know, it's been a year.
Why am I still feeling like this?
So it's been 6 months and I feellike I should be here by now.
And like, my question is where is that time frame coming from?
Like how can we put a time frameon healing?
How can we put a time frame on this thing of getting over or
(15:57):
being over or our bodies, our minds are up, our hearts not
feeling what it feels like? How can we put a time frame on
feeling or emotion? You know, I think the, the
moment we do that, then that's when you're beating yourself up
because you're like, well, it's six months and I'm not feeling
how I should Bam, you know, it'sa year and I feel like I should
be where I, I wanted to be in inthe feeling sense, you know, you
(16:18):
can have goals and things you want to achieve, but it's like,
how can you put a time frame on that?
Like you've just got to allow yourself to feel like, you know,
healing is not linear. It's going to come up in
different ways. It's going to come up in
different times. And we've just got to allow our
body to process and to feel. You know, my coach says
something really powerful, Sean,when he says emotions buried
(16:41):
don't die. Nah.
Emotions buried don't die. And I think when we put time
frames on things, all we're saying is I'm not going to feel
that right now because I should be over that by now.
And where? Where is it going to go?
That is such a prominent quote that because they don't die,
(17:04):
right? And they can appear at the most
weird time and and that's the thing about relationships,
right? And, and you know, the
relationship that you established with your partner
and, and vice versa with mine, there's triggers that happen.
It could be a song, it could be a place that you used to go to.
(17:25):
How have you been able to navigate that?
Yeah, I think it's just, you know, allowing those feelings to
come up. You know, there's songs, there's
places, there's dates, there's anniversaries.
There's so much that you build. There's friendships, there's
people that's, that's everything, you know, like
you've built a life with this person.
You, your, your lives are intertwined.
(17:46):
And when and when you separate, there's so much that comes with
that. You know, when you, you know,
kids as well, There's so much more that comes with it.
And I think there's no right wayor wrong way.
It's just whatever feels a line for, for each individual.
And I think I go back to that thing where you've, you've just
got to allow yourself to, to feel what, what comes up.
You've got to allow yourself thetime, the space be in the
(18:08):
surroundings and just alliance because there's no other way to
heal unless you feel. And you know, recently I, I sold
the house and I was moving out from it and it was close to
settlement and I was having to pack and things were all over
the floor and everywhere. You know, my mom had recently
left and she was in India havingkittens because she's like, how
are you going to make this move date?
Like it's not going to happen. And amidst all of that, like I
(18:31):
was having these big feelings because it was moving out of a
home that I thought would be ourfamily home.
I thought I like, you know, it wasn't just a separation.
Now it's like, what is the housemean?
What does it mean to move out from this?
This is a place that's held me up while I've been holding this
person up. And I just had to give myself
time. I'm like, let the stuff be on
the floor because I need to process this.
(18:53):
And I remember just turning on the camera and I just did a
video journal and I just allowedeverything that was in me just
to come out. And I was like, I don't know
what whether I'm going to share this later or not or whatever,
but I just need to process. I need to hold space for me and
let the stuff be on the floor because what's better?
The stuff on the floor or me, you know, and it's, and it's
(19:14):
that it's like, you know, being,and I think with this podcast,
you know, being like hard on my sleeve, It's so important to
allow ourselves the time to havea hard on our sleeve and not
going. I need to hold this all
together. And I'm not, I can't cry in this
moment or I can't feel in this moment.
It's it's creating space in our day to allow ourselves to feel
because that's the only way we're going to heal, the only
(19:34):
way we're going to move through it.
Marissa, can you take me to the moment when you realise your
relationship was shifting and what you needed to face within
yourself? Like is was there a moment or
was it a, was it, was it, was itjust a gradual thing?
Yeah, I think, I think it was both both gradual and then and
there was a moment and then after that many moments, you
(19:58):
know, I think with any relationship and you've probably
experienced this too, I think there's a lot of.
Verbal and and probably non verbal integrity contracts that
we have. And I think, you know, there's
also like a relationship compassas well.
And in some way there was a point where it was in 2023 that
(20:20):
I felt that that integrity contract kind of broke in a way
and the compass wasn't aligned. And I think after that, that
year was just trying to align itbecause of course you want to
give everything that you can to go, OK, you know, this is a
person I want to spend the rest of my life with and I'm going to
try everything I possibly can tomake this work.
And it's like, OK, let's realigncontracts.
(20:42):
Let's have conversations. Let's talk about how do we, how
do we realign like my compass isone way and yours or the other.
Is there a way we can realign our compass into where we need
to be going as as a partnership?And when there was a realisation
that our compasses weren't aligning, I think that was the
moment when it was like, hey, you know what?
(21:03):
There's nothing that we can do to align this.
And I think that was the moment when we realised, you know, it's
better that we're actually healthier, better individuals
when we're not going to be together.
And I think I'm grateful that werealised that before it got
ugly, before it got nasty, before, because it could have.
(21:23):
I'm just grateful that we were both able to realise it in the
moment and go, OK, hey, we're not in that space now.
And it's not going to ever get back to what it was in
alignment. And I think it's better that we
just go our separate ways. And I think, you know, that's
why I say in some ways it was mutual.
And, you know, we've joked aboutthis.
If this was mutual, what is not,you know, But yeah, I think I
(21:46):
think that that was the moment. And it's the realisation that
compasses aren't aligning anymore.
Again, I feel that because it is, it is very similar in a lot
of the narrative and you know, from my own personal journey, I
was, I probably would have been the stoic that would have stayed
(22:07):
in the relationship and just fought through it.
But if it wasn't for my ex wife to, you know, bring this up with
me to make me feel that, you know, the feelings that I've I
was feeling as well were similar.
And again, like you, we've we'vemanaged to part ways being very
amicable. And it's not about us.
It's about the girls and ego to the side.
(22:30):
But it's but where I'm going with that, Nerissa, is that what
I've had to navigate wasn't actually the relationship that I
was in with Felicity. It's dealing with a lot of past
traumas that have led to the situations that I was expressing
in my relationship with Felicity.
And owning that myself has been such a critical part of my
(22:51):
healing journey is to actually even go deeper because a lot of
the ways that I showed up wasn'tjust about in the relationship
itself. It was got to do with things
that I experienced as a kid whenI lost my dad and I had to
become a people pleaser and everything.
I don't like confrontation and Idon't like, I don't like any of
that because of those moments that happened as a kid.
(23:13):
Did you actually explore? Because I know you've been
through a lot in your life. Yeah, yeah.
That just resonates so deeply with the relationship with
everything that I do with. Yeah, just everything you said
just now. And it's it's so true.
Like, you know, we journey through life with everything
that's happened to us. We all have a story, right?
We all have a journey. We all have a past.
(23:33):
And as we move through, we put on certain layers and we put on
certain lenses, and then we lookat life and the world through
those layers and through those lenses.
And it's just natural, right? I don't think anyone journeying
through doesn't have layers or doesn't have lenses.
It's just about the acknowledgement awareness that
that is. And then when we meet someone in
a relationship and we start being in a relationship with
somebody, now my layers are in relationship with your layers.
(23:56):
My lenses are looking at your lenses, right?
And that's how we're in relationship.
And I think the moment somethinghappens when one of us starts
removing layers, now there's a different layer that's talking
to a layer that you met before. And now how are our layers
meeting, right. And when you think about like
all the trauma, all the work that we do, all the stuff that
(24:16):
we're unpacking, it's can this person meet me now where I'm
going? Can I meet that person where
they're going in their healing journey, in their transformation
journey, in their journey of moving, of removing all the
layers? And I think so much comes from
that. And absolutely there were things
that that triggered me through the separation.
There were things that triggeredme even before, before that and
(24:40):
after it as well. You know, and I talk about this
concept called refinding you, which is, you know, the tag that
I was talking to you about, but it's the, it's the concept of
refinding the version of you before everything else happened,
before the world told you who you should be, how you should
be, all the life stuff that happened to us, you know, going
back to find that little inner child version of us.
(25:02):
And I think when we can go back and operate from that space to
remove those layers, remove those lenses and refine that
version of us and then be in relationship, then it's a whole
different, different level rightof now who you're
relationshiping with, right? Because it's just those
different levels of different layers and different lenses that
are now communicating and talking to each other.
(25:24):
Beautifully put and beautifully said Question for you.
There's someone in the LGBTQIA plus community.
Did you feel extra pressure around what your relationship
represented and did that impact you in any way?
Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I hadn't, I hadn't
thought about it that way. But yeah, I think I can only
(25:47):
speak from from my perspective in this.
And I think given everything that I had fought for to be in
the relationship, given everything that I had stood for,
you know, all the family stuff, all the people that I had, you
know, had to say, hey, this is who I am and this is the person
I want to be with. And it felt like there was more
of an investment in some ways. And I'm not saying anybody
(26:09):
else's investment is less right,but I'm just saying from my
perspective, it just felt like Inow have everything that I've
fought for to be. And now I'm almost releasing
that fight and saying, Hey, thisis no longer, you know, what I
want. And you know, from my
perspective, a lot of people hadeven prayed for my healing, you
(26:32):
know, like that this wouldn't bewhere I end up.
So there's a lot of, you know, again, lenses that you've got to
look through, a lot of perspectives that you've got to,
you know, look through. And I think it's just going,
this is not, you know, this is not occurring because someone
prayed that I should be walking a different path, right?
This is occurring because this is what's meant for me and it's
in alignment with me. And it's about challenging the
(26:54):
narratives that do come up and the stories that we do tell
ourselves. And I think they come up in
different contexts. They can be cultural.
They can be, you know, driven bysociety and societal
expectations of where we should be and what we should be doing.
But I think it's more around just you having that inner
dialogue with yourself and beingin alignment with yourself
around the reasons why you're moving and the reasons why
(27:15):
you're taking the steps you are.And it's not because someone
else tells you you should, but because you know that's an
alignment for you. I've.
Got a question about Well, let's, let's go to this.
What's the truth you're standingin now that maybe you weren't
ready to hold before? Yeah, this one hits.
(27:43):
I think there's I think there's a truth that that I'm worthy and
I'm enough no matter what, that I don't have to be a certain
somebody. I don't have to show up a
certain way. I don't have to be the carer,
the wife, the person that has all the answers, that shows up
(28:04):
perfectly every time, that is able to hold the crumbling
building, that I'm able to let it all fall, that I'm able to
fall myself and knowing that I can get back up again and
rebuild from, you know, from rock bottom.
And I think that's a truth that maybe I didn't know as deeply
(28:25):
and maybe I've had to relearn a number of times, but I feel like
I'm more grounded in it now. And I think there's a truth that
it's no longer external. It's internal for me.
Like it's, I think there's so much that we seek externally,
whether that's validation, whether that's support.
And this is in no way saying that not to reach out for help.
(28:49):
Like that's something I absolutely say, like you reach
out for help, like that's not something you need to do alone.
But it's, you know, I think we look, whether it's the society,
whether it's the people, whetherit's, you know, how many likes
you get on your social media forso much validation in today's
world. And I think there's a truth in
me that I'm not working on anyone's timeline now.
I'm not living life on anyone else's dial but my heart.
(29:11):
And there's and, you know, peacethat comes from that.
That yeah, it's just groundings.It's beautiful, really
beautiful. The moving forward, Nerissa,
because I'm battling with this at the moment as well, right?
Like the divorce papers were signed and everything's done now
from my side. And I sent off a couple of text
(29:33):
messages to friends and they said, oh, great, so, you know,
get back on the waggon cookie. And it's just like, well, no,
that I it's not a celebration. I never will.
I ever say it's a celebration togo through a divorce, especially
when you still care for that person.
You still care for them, but that that even that thinking of
(29:56):
wanting to get into another relationship is like priority
stack #9654 in my list. How do you go about that next
phase of your life and the next relationship?
Yeah. You know, I think that's that's
also like very natural like, andI think, you know, friends and
family and all of them, they mean well.
(30:16):
They want to see us happy. They want to see us with
somebody. And I've had the whole thing
when you're getting on the apps and I'm like, Oh my God, no,
that's that's just not me. It's just.
Not. I'm not getting on the app.
I'm not getting. Like, you know, when you're
going out, when you're meeting people, when Are you ready?
When like, you know, it's all these questions and you know,
like I'm sitting with rings hereand it's, it's really weird.
I don't know if you feel this, but I still automatically just
(30:39):
put a ring on my ring finger andI've got to take it off.
And I'm like, Hey, that's it's weird for me because I'm so used
to having a ring on that singer and even just taking off my
ring, it was not an easy thing to do it, it was it, it was
hard. It was a significant moment for
me when I made a very conscious decision to take it off because
it was right in terms of that inthe relationship and where we
(31:01):
were at that point. But you know, even now, like
when I put rings on, I'll put one on there and I'm like, Oh,
you know, it's not. And it's just a a weird thing.
And it comes from, Hey, I'm going out now and I don't want a
ring on that finger. But, you know, when, when is the
time ever? Like what?
What is the right time? Like, who knows really?
For me, I'm not putting pressureon that.
(31:22):
For me, I'm in a very much in a season of just refining myself.
And I think I want to give myself time and space and just
grow and heal and just be all the things I want to be.
And look, in that season, if I find someone and someone finds
me and, you know, our layers andlenses match, Yeah, I'm open.
I'm open to wherever that takes me, but for me there isn't a,
(31:45):
you know, hey, by December I need to have been on three apps
and met 5 people and got on X amount of dates, you know?
That's definitely, definitely not part of the surrendering
plan. Yeah, no, I get it.
I get it. It feels exhausting for me to
even think about that, in all honesty.
But I suppose it's until you canget a point within yourself, you
(32:06):
can't be open to those opportunities to arise.
And I think that's the work thatwe're doing right now, both you
and I is just really focused on making sure that within is
strong enough to withhold the next.
So yeah, I really do appreciate that.
Nerissa, You know, someone mightbe sitting on the edge of
letting go of something themselves right now.
(32:26):
You know, whether that's of a person, a plan or or even a part
of themselves. What would you want to offer
them from your own experience, especially in the work that you
do as well? I'd say a couple of things.
The first thing I'd say, becauseyou so beautifully asked the
question and said about letting go, the first thing I'd say is,
you know, when we think about letting go, the hardest thing in
(32:49):
letting go is actually holding on, not the letting go.
Because I think it's when you let go, there comes release and
there comes ease and everything is allowed to flow.
But when we're holding on, there's the tightness of the
grip, there's the pain, there's the tears, there's the fears,
there's everything that comes from what will be if I let go.
(33:12):
And the hardest thing in lettinggo is the holding on.
So I just want to offer that perspective to someone sitting
in that, just to let that group go slightly.
But on the other side of that, the thing I want to offer people
is hope. Because I think it can get dark
sometimes. It can get lonely, it can get
(33:34):
bumpy, it can get uncertain. And I think it gets a little
scary when we lose hope of what can be because of it's
everything we've known. And now it's like, what now?
And I, I came up with this, thisacronym for hope that I use so
HOP, which says hold on, possibilities exist.
(33:56):
Hold on possibilities exist. And that's just something I want
to leave people with that, you know, no matter how dark or
crazy or scary or uncertain it looks right now, like hold on,
hold on for another minute, holdon for another day, hold on.
Reach outreach out to friends. There are so many people out
there that can help. You know, you don't have to do
(34:16):
this alone. As you've seen, like, you know,
Cookie and I are both going through something similar.
And the only way we knew that wewere going through this because
we chose to speak about it. If we just chose to speak about,
we intend to get on a call and talk about, we would have never
known that we're both journey through it.
But I think we both went, hey, this is what I'm going through.
And it was through that conversation that we realised,
hey, this is something else thatwe can support each other
(34:37):
through. And it's been hugely, you know,
it's been a huge support for me knowing that you're journeying
this with me. And I'm sure it's helped you as
well. And I think just, you know,
having conversations with people, just, you know, wearing
your heart on your sleeve is so important.
You know, we don't have to be perfect.
We don't have to hold it all in.Just allow things to flow
because it's in conversation that you get to know so much
(34:58):
more. We've got a campaign out at the
moment which is I'm not OK. The three most powerful words
you can say and the thing about what you've heard today on this
podcast with Nerissa and the narrative that you'll
continuously hear from Heart on My Sleeve and all the other
hosts and guests that we appear is that, you know, life as
Nerissa is stated, can be hard. You can hit rock bottom when you
(35:20):
hit rock bottom, just make sure you're looking up because it's
not the big things that will change, but it's a little one
shifts the the power of 1 in everything.
The one moment, the one action, the one conversation, the one
idea. You know, if we focus on the
one, it makes it easiest, easierfor us to get up.
And it doesn't have to be the big, like you said in the
(35:41):
research. It could be I'm just going to
spend a weekend in my pyjamas and I'm going to let it all out,
right? Powerful moment, isn't it?
Right, right. That, Oh, how many weekends have
I had in my pyjamas? Let me just think.
But you know, it's those, it's those moments where you just
say, you know what I'm not goingto today, Like, you know, I'm
not going to turn the light on. I'm not going to open the
(36:01):
blinds. I'm not going to cook a meal.
Like I'm just going to let me be.
Just let, let yourself be, let yourself feel, let yourself
heal. You know, we don't have to be a
certain way. And it's in those moments where
you just give in to that feeling.
I think in in order to surrender, I just want to say in
order to surrender you have to give in to that feeling to be
able to surrender. Nerissa, it's been absolutely
(36:23):
incredible having you on the Heart of My Slave podcast.
So I just want to say thank you,my friend, for opening up and
sharing and holding space with me today.
I needed that, and hopefully everyone else that listened
today needed that as well. It's been a real pleasure,
Nerissa. Where can people find out more
about you Nerissa? I'm on social desk Nerissa
Trinidad on LinkedIn, Instagram,Facebook.
My website is www.nerissatrinidad.com.
(36:47):
Amazing. Thank you everyone for listening
in to today's podcast. We'll catch you soon.
See you later. Bye.
My emotions have a natural tendency to dissipate unless
they get reinforced. And so if there's more thoughts,
more stories, more intentions that come along.
So the act of how am I leaving it alone?
Is an act of not act, Adding more stories, adding fuel to it.
(37:09):
So it might not go away in 2 minutes, but it then begins to
relax and dissipate. And so rather than being the
person who has to fix it, we've become the person who makes
space for the heart, the mind, to relax and settle away itself.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd is a thought-provoking, opinionated, and topic-driven journey through the top sports stories of the day.