October 25, 2024 • 20 mins
Unlock the secrets to real estate success as we sit down with Doug Motley, a distinguished real estate developer and investor from Delaware. Discover how Doug transitioned from a corporate finance background to founding Jack Lingo Asset Management, navigating early career challenges that ignited his entrepreneurial spirit. Doug shares invaluable insights on identifying overlooked markets and asset classes, emphasizing the importance of finding the right partners and cultivating a collaborative company culture. This episode is a goldmine of practical advice and strategies for anyone looking to make their mark in real estate investing.
Prepare to be inspired by Doug’s wisdom on maintaining a strong mindset and building genuine relationships. Learn how inner peace and strong fundamentals can help you weather the unpredictable ups and downs of the real estate industry. From engaging in physical activities like weightlifting and running marathons to mastering effective negotiation strategies, Doug reveals how these practices contribute to mental clarity and professional success. Tune in to hear about the art of achieving mutual benefit in negotiations and leveraging diverse perspectives to create winning solutions for all parties involved.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Heather Ewing, the CRE Rundown.
I am your host, heather Ewing,and today I have a special guest
from Delaware.
I have none other than DougMotley, doug, welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Thanks, heather, great to see you and appreciate
you having me on.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Definitely.
Thanks for joining me today.
So we've gotten to know eachother just a little bit, but I
wanted to introduce you to myaudience.
Can you share more aboutyourself?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Sure, I am a native Delawarean.
I've been in the real estatebusiness almost 20 years now
it's scary to say that Startedmy career in banking, corporate
strategy, corporate finance and,through an acquisition, found
myself looking for a differentindustry at the ripe old age of
25.
And a friend connected me tosomeone who was in the real
(00:52):
estate development business.
We hit it off and they werewilling to take a risk on me.
And you know, finding peoplewho are willing to be your
champion and to take a risk onyou is something special, I
think, in life, and I wasfortunate to have a couple
instances of that but this wascertainly one of them and got
(01:12):
into real estate development.
Didn't know anything about realestate at the time, had done one
real estate transaction andthat was purchasing a house and
I did that very poorly.
A house, and I did that verypoorly.
So fortunately I learned veryquickly and actually ended up
stepping into the chieffinancial officer role at this
development company within beingthere six months.
(01:33):
So it was definitely a sink orswim type of environment and
really learned so much in acouple of years that I was there
.
There I learned theentrepreneurial uh, I guess
spirit through that experience,and that was the catalyst for
starting my first company in2009.
I guess it was where we werefocused on investing in
(01:57):
distressed office coming out ofthe gfc, and we did that very
successfully.
Performance was fantastic.
Amount of capital raised wasnot tremendous, but if you're
going to have something be wrong, it's better to be wrong on the
capital than wrong on theperformance.
So that was my firstentrepreneurial experience.
(02:18):
And then, in 2011, formed, withseveral other partners, a
company called Jack Lingo AssetManagement, or JLAM, and that's
what I've been co-running forthe last 13 plus years.
Now we're a regionaldevelopment and investment
company that really focuses onoverlooked markets and
(02:39):
overlooked segments of theindustry, but really have the
capabilities to both acquire anddevelop a variety of different
asset classes, which we thinkputs us in a pretty good
position to succeed in a varietyof different markets.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Right, the diversified portfolio, right,
yep.
So backing up a little bit yourstatement of a sink or swim, I
think anyone that is familiarwith commercial real estate,
investing any any related arenaof it, will understand that, and
I've frequently thought that itreminds me of Darwinism playing
(03:16):
out.
What would you say about that?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
yeah, I guess we tend to have a lot of.
I don't know if they're clichesor phrases they eat what you
kill, sink or swim whatever,sharpen your pencil?
yeah, exactly, and they're, youknow, they're all relevant in
different contexts, but, um, youknow, for for me it was finding
that right environment ofhaving the support and
empowerment, um, you know, tosucceed, but also the um culture
(03:43):
, or knowing I needed to be ableto figure stuff out on my own,
and that's, you know, as we'vebuilt our company, that's a big
thing that we pride ourselves onin terms of our culture is
finding the right people thathave the right skill set and
really empowering them to do,you know, awesome work, and so I
don't liken it quite.
(04:04):
I personally don't think thesafer swim term is appropriate
for our culture, because maybeit would be if you had a life
jacket on kind of thing or youhad somebody looking over you
with a safety boat as you'reswimming across the English
Channel.
So you've got support, you'vegot the team to to help you
succeed, you've got the team tohelp you succeed.
And, as a leader, I think ourfunction is really to help set
(04:28):
goals, empower people and removeroadblocks and really kind of
get out of the way.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
And so I think that sink or swim mentality is what I
was in, but we look at it alittle bit differently here in
our company today, which isideal, because it's one of those
, I think, when you're beginning, everything is new, there's so
much and you're trying to gatherit all in, but with the years,
the decades of experience andcreating your own brokerage firm
, that you're able to determinethe environment, the atmosphere
(05:04):
that you want to promote, whichis definitely more of a
relationship, collaboration,growth, which is something that
I align with too, because you'llget a different feel from each
of the different firms andinvestors, and it's really
selecting.
Who do you want to tie ships toin that sense, because it's
like the old adage of birds of afeather.
I think the same is true of ofbrokerage and investing, that
(05:28):
you align with different peoplethat have similar values, and
when people are investingsignificant amounts of money and
assets, you want to make surethat you're connected with the
right group absolutely, and fromthe the investment.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
We've invested about half a billion dollars in a
variety of different strategiesover the last 13 years or so,
and you know that finding theright partners on the brokerage
side is really important mostimportant word in our whole
business because if findingpeople that a have a similar
(06:07):
mindset to you but are willingto take the time to understand
your mindset as well, as youknow, help provide value for you
as an investor.
Working with brokers that arevery proactive and trying to,
you know, help you find whatyou're looking for, help you
achieve your goals, enables themto also achieve their goals.
(06:29):
So it's a very cooperativeenvironment when it's set up
correctly.
And I've definitely seen theother side of that, which is
just maybe less worried about awin-win and more worried about a
win-win and more worried aboutsomebody.
One person winning irrespectiveof what may be happening to the
(06:52):
other people involved in thetransaction.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Right Two very different vantage points as far
as short-term quick win versusthe long relationship and I
think too like yourself ofcreating those long-term
relationships are reallysatisfying, and when you deliver
at a high level and areproactively looking for ways to
increase their returns and maybedo something uniquely and
(07:18):
outside of the box, that's goingto benefit them.
People value and appreciatethat and it's very reciprocal.
Them.
People value and appreciatethat and it's very reciprocal.
So, as we advance down, you hadmentioned about various asset
classes.
Is there one right now thatyou're really leaning into, or
one that you think is going toshift the market a little bit
(07:38):
more in the upcoming months oryear?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Sure.
So great question and, I think,really interesting timing as it
relates to where we are.
So we've invested across avariety of asset classes, but we
saw the lending market changingvery dramatically starting
about two years ago with theSilicon Valley Bank collapse,
the regulatory environmentchanging for virtually every
(08:04):
lender out there, interest ratesincreasing and just the whole
dynamic of commercial realestate lending kind of getting
turned on its head, and we sawsome similarities to what
happened in the GFC Definitelysome big differences, but we saw
some similarities.
And at the same time as supplyof capital or debt capital was
getting massively constrainedyou have more than $1.5 trillion
(08:29):
of commercial real estate loansmaturing, so you have this
giant demand for debt capitalbut you have a constricting
supply.
And so we saw an opportunity, orwe believe that there were
going to be some things thatbreak or just kind of a market
dislocation, and so we puttogether a private credit
vehicle to provide rescuecapital, subordinated debt and
(08:52):
preferred equity across assetclasses, so a little asset class
agnostic in the lower middlemarket space.
So we think that that's areally compelling space to be in
right now.
But we are also continuing tolean in on the residential
development side and that's bothfor rent and for sale product,
(09:13):
because the US is short three tosix million houses, depending
on which number you look at, andthat's not a problem.
That's going to get fixed veryquickly.
So we think that you know, overthe long term the residential
segment of the market makes alot of sense to be an investor
term.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
The residential segment of the market makes a
lot of sense to be an investor.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I agree, and where would you say that mindset
settles in with all of this?
Wow, that's a great question.
So, yeah, I think you can lookat it from the macro perspective
and you know we're not in abusiness that changes by the
minute, like trading stocksmight be, but you know we also
don't have a crystal ball andknow where where things are
going.
So you have to make sure thatthe fundamentals are strong, no
(10:01):
matter what may be happeningwith things outside of your
control.
From a mindset perspective, Ithink that's super important to
have stability, have compassion,have understanding.
And then, from a more microperspective, we all have
(10:21):
transactions that are gettingready to close and something
comes up and it's going to delayit or push it or you catch a
curveball at the last minute andhaving the again kind of
awareness and, um, almost uh,inner peace of everything is
going to be okay.
Um, having that, uh, having thatmindset really can just make
(10:44):
doing what we do a lot moreenjoyable or less stressful, and
that's not something that Ilearned, um, naturally, you know
it had to be very intentionalkind of process for me to get
there, and so had some verychallenging transactions where
things were coming up and Iwould get like physically ill
(11:05):
and I was like, okay,something's not right here, this
is not good right.
And for a variety of differentreasons, I ended up.
I had the opportunity to workwith a, an executive coach, who
was really um very active and adeep believer in the, the power
of mindset and and how that canimpact, um your effectiveness,
(11:27):
and he really turned me on toyou know, a couple great books
and some really interesting waysof thinking that I've put to
work over the last five yearsthat have really, you know,
increased my impactfulness andmy effectiveness and everything
I do, both internally with ourteam as well as externally, and
how we think about investmentstrategies or how we, you know,
(11:48):
transact with others definitely,and I think too that in life it
seems like people want to puteverything in a silo your career
is here, your personal life,all these other aspects and it's
they're all interrelated.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
So if you're crushing it in one, you know chances are
it's going to flow into theother and vice versa.
And that's where, too, I reallylike having that bigger macro
vantage point.
And so, with your example ofthe executive coach, they're
able to see that bigger picture,know all of your goals.
Obviously we know ourselves,but they also are able to see
(12:24):
that little part of us that wemay not always acknowledge or
think of when we're movingthrough.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
So it's really who you become on the journey when
you say absolutely, and I thinkfor people who are going back to
the kind of relationship topic.
But genuineness andauthenticity matters and you can
see that and as you'reinteracting with people, whether
it's in work or in you knowleisure activities.
You can see that and as you'reinteracting with people, whether
it's in work or in, you knowleisure activities.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
You can see that right I mean, we're all people.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
You can tell somebody's you know bs in you or
or they're legitimate orthey're being authentic, um, and
that matters and everything wedo right.
Like if you meet somebody outof the restaurant and they just
seem fake, you're not going tobe, you know, interested in
talking with them more.
If you meet somebody inbusiness and they're just
authentic and they are listeningand seem to really be
(13:14):
interested in what you're doingand how they can help, you're
going to want to do businesswith them.
So I think exactly as you saidis you know we're all people and
you don't compartmentalize froma work outside of work kind of
bucketing.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, and I think, too, everyone has a gut feel, a
gut intuition, and it's one ofthose.
Sometimes you see people with asmile and it's just like you
can just feel, though, thatsomething is off, and so, to
your point, having just thatcrystal clear trust in someone
makes all the difference.
And again, you're not investing.
You know even something verysmall they're typically big
(13:55):
amounts, and you want to knowthat your money is being
invested properly and that youhave a good relationship with
the investor.
So what would you say is a goodway?
So you've definitely, you know,transitioned over the years
from feeling kind of sick withdifferent deals to now of you
know, of being in that space ofstability, of kind of having
(14:18):
your resources.
What are a couple of thoseresources that you would
recommend as a go-to to reallyhelp people stay on the up and
up as they're moving throughstressful deals or capital
raises, things of that nature?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I think just physical exercise is a big one, whether
that's, you know, just walkingand letting your brain meander
as you of that nature.
I think just physical exerciseis a big one, whether that's
just walking and letting yourbrain meander as you do that, or
I'm big into lifting weightsand that's a good.
Get out some stress by doingthat, meditating and finding
things that really help youfocus, help you strip out some
of the noise.
(14:53):
I'm also a pilot, so for me,going up and flying around is
something that you still need tobe obviously paying attention
to what you're doing for safetyand all that, but it's just kind
of a Zen space for me.
So finding those things thatreally make you feel good and
kind of invigorate the body.
(15:14):
There's a big connection, Ithink, between you know the
physical body and how wellyou're, you're you keep, you're
taking care of your body and howwell your mind is functioning
and how effective you ultimatelycan be in work.
But I know you're really activein athletics or endurance.
(15:35):
How do you think about thatsame question?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I agree completely.
I frequently am asked how doyou find the time to run
marathons and also run your firm?
And for me it gives me energy,similar to weightlifting for you
and it's mindset, because whenyou don't feel like running and
you choose to because it'schoice.
I think that sends thatrepeated message throughout your
(16:01):
entire system mentally,physically, otherwise that
you're a person of your word,that you keep your commitments
and that you deliver foryourself and for others.
And I don't know how people doit without a physical outlet.
Well, I guess I do, becausemany, many decades ago I used to
not really work out and didn'tmake the best choices.
(16:23):
So it's one of those.
It's a staple of my life.
I look forward to it.
Like with anything, you'regoing to have days you don't
want to do it, but you're alwaysglad that you followed through
and did it right yeah, for sure,for sure yeah.
So my, my big question for you,doug, is how?
(16:43):
What does living fully mean toyou?
That's an unbelievable question.
Um yeah, oh, I know it's a hardhitter.
That's why I got you all warmedup.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Could probably talk for a really long time on what
that might mean and philosophize, et cetera, but I think for me
it's it really comes back tothat relationships concept and
finding people.
And this includes people youwork with internally.
You know friends that you thatdon't have anything to do with
work, but building meaningfulrelationships and meaningful can
(17:20):
mean a whole bunch of differentthings, but I think interacting
with people is one of myfavorite parts of the business.
Entrusting us with asignificant amount of their
capital for us to invest,whether that's dealing with
brokers who are advising us orhelping us source opportunities,
or representing us and leasingour properties, or vendors all
(17:45):
over the whole spectrum, butreally getting to know people
and learning about them andhelping them succeed.
And it may be direct ways, itmay be indirect ways, maybe
opening up doors for them, itmay be giving somebody a hand up
at a time when they need it,but really those things I find
so rewarding and and that's, youknow, I think that's the most
(18:09):
important thing for me.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Definitely, and actually you know what I do.
Have one more question.
I'd be remiss if I didn't askso your TEDx speech, which is
something I would love to do oneday tell our audience a little
about your how to harness theand experience and anybody who
(18:36):
has the opportunity definitelytry and step up and take it very
exciting and it was a very, uh,sometimes uncomfortable but
really rewarding experience forme.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
But the my talk was um, about the power of the ant
and really trying to.
This goes back to the mindsetquestion, which I think is is a
great one, but trying to find,um, more than just maybe the
obvious answer in things andthat could be, you know, this
(19:03):
property is an industrialproperty.
Well, maybe on its face it isthat, but maybe there's a way to
reposition it and extract a lotmore value.
So it's and it's better offbeing a multifamily property,
and that's just a really kind ofcheesy example.
But as we go to mindset, youknow I think we talk about this
a lot internally.
But how are there ways where Ican have the outcome that I'm
(19:23):
looking for and you or thecounterparty on the other side
can also get what they'relooking for?
And a lot of that comes down toasking questions and listening
and trying to understanddifferent people's viewpoints.
So it's an idea and it's aconcept that I try and pull into
my thinking, you know, as muchas I can, because I think there
(19:44):
are so many applications to it.
Sometimes it's very, you know,specific as to how we look at a
real estate investment.
Other times it's, you know,negotiation that we're entering
and it's not just what do I want, what do I need.
But hey, maybe there's a waywhere I can get that and I can
the seller or the buyer, I canhelp them accommodate what it is
(20:05):
that they're looking for.
And I'm guessing that in yourrole as a, as an advisor and and
um consultant in the brokerageside, you probably have to do
that quite a bit and the mosteffective people and kind of
bringing two perspectivestogether are the leaders in the
industry, definitely.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
And I would say, with the climate that we're in too,
the end for me really comes fromthat creative vantage point of
seeing it outside of the basicstructure, what people have done
, maybe how it's zoned andcreating the wind.
So with that, doug, thank youso much for joining us.
It was a true pleasure today.
And, folks, I will leave Doug'scontact information because I
(20:47):
know you're gonna wanna reachout to him.
So, doug, thank you so much.
Welcome to Heather Ewing, the CRE Rundown.
I am your host, heather Ewing,and today I have a special guest
from Delaware.
I have none other than DougMotley, doug, welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Thanks, heather, great to see you and appreciate
you having me on.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Definitely.
Thanks for joining me today.
So we've gotten to know eachother just a little bit, but I
wanted to introduce you to myaudience.
Can you share more aboutyourself?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Sure, I am a native Delawarean.
I've been in the real estatebusiness almost 20 years now
it's scary to say that Startedmy career in banking, corporate
strategy, corporate finance and,through an acquisition, found
myself looking for a differentindustry at the ripe old age of
25.
And a friend connected me tosomeone who was in the real
(00:52):
estate development business.
We hit it off and they werewilling to take a risk on me.
And you know, finding peoplewho are willing to be your
champion and to take a risk onyou is something special, I
think, in life, and I wasfortunate to have a couple
instances of that but this wascertainly one of them and got
(01:12):
into real estate development.
Didn't know anything about realestate at the time, had done one
real estate transaction andthat was purchasing a house and
I did that very poorly.
A house, and I did that verypoorly.
So fortunately I learned veryquickly and actually ended up
stepping into the chieffinancial officer role at this
development company within beingthere six months.
(01:33):
So it was definitely a sink orswim type of environment and
really learned so much in acouple of years that I was there
.
There I learned theentrepreneurial uh, I guess
spirit through that experience,and that was the catalyst for
starting my first company in2009.
I guess it was where we werefocused on investing in
(01:57):
distressed office coming out ofthe gfc, and we did that very
successfully.
Performance was fantastic.
Amount of capital raised wasnot tremendous, but if you're
going to have something be wrong, it's better to be wrong on the
capital than wrong on theperformance.
So that was my firstentrepreneurial experience.
(02:18):
And then, in 2011, formed, withseveral other partners, a
company called Jack Lingo AssetManagement, or JLAM, and that's
what I've been co-running forthe last 13 plus years.
Now we're a regionaldevelopment and investment
company that really focuses onoverlooked markets and
(02:39):
overlooked segments of theindustry, but really have the
capabilities to both acquire anddevelop a variety of different
asset classes, which we thinkputs us in a pretty good
position to succeed in a varietyof different markets.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Right, the diversified portfolio, right,
yep.
So backing up a little bit yourstatement of a sink or swim, I
think anyone that is familiarwith commercial real estate,
investing any any related arenaof it, will understand that, and
I've frequently thought that itreminds me of Darwinism playing
(03:16):
out.
What would you say about that?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
yeah, I guess we tend to have a lot of.
I don't know if they're clichesor phrases they eat what you
kill, sink or swim whatever,sharpen your pencil?
yeah, exactly, and they're, youknow, they're all relevant in
different contexts, but, um, youknow, for for me it was finding
that right environment ofhaving the support and
empowerment, um, you know, tosucceed, but also the um culture
(03:43):
, or knowing I needed to be ableto figure stuff out on my own,
and that's, you know, as we'vebuilt our company, that's a big
thing that we pride ourselves onin terms of our culture is
finding the right people thathave the right skill set and
really empowering them to do,you know, awesome work, and so I
don't liken it quite.
(04:04):
I personally don't think thesafer swim term is appropriate
for our culture, because maybeit would be if you had a life
jacket on kind of thing or youhad somebody looking over you
with a safety boat as you'reswimming across the English
Channel.
So you've got support, you'vegot the team to to help you
succeed, you've got the team tohelp you succeed.
And, as a leader, I think ourfunction is really to help set
(04:28):
goals, empower people and removeroadblocks and really kind of
get out of the way.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
And so I think that sink or swim mentality is what I
was in, but we look at it alittle bit differently here in
our company today, which isideal, because it's one of those
, I think, when you're beginning, everything is new, there's so
much and you're trying to gatherit all in, but with the years,
the decades of experience andcreating your own brokerage firm
, that you're able to determinethe environment, the atmosphere
(05:04):
that you want to promote, whichis definitely more of a
relationship, collaboration,growth, which is something that
I align with too, because you'llget a different feel from each
of the different firms andinvestors, and it's really
selecting.
Who do you want to tie ships toin that sense, because it's
like the old adage of birds of afeather.
I think the same is true of ofbrokerage and investing, that
(05:28):
you align with different peoplethat have similar values, and
when people are investingsignificant amounts of money and
assets, you want to make surethat you're connected with the
right group absolutely, and fromthe the investment.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
We've invested about half a billion dollars in a
variety of different strategiesover the last 13 years or so,
and you know that finding theright partners on the brokerage
side is really important mostimportant word in our whole
business because if findingpeople that a have a similar
(06:07):
mindset to you but are willingto take the time to understand
your mindset as well, as youknow, help provide value for you
as an investor.
Working with brokers that arevery proactive and trying to,
you know, help you find whatyou're looking for, help you
achieve your goals, enables themto also achieve their goals.
(06:29):
So it's a very cooperativeenvironment when it's set up
correctly.
And I've definitely seen theother side of that, which is
just maybe less worried about awin-win and more worried about a
win-win and more worried aboutsomebody.
One person winning irrespectiveof what may be happening to the
(06:52):
other people involved in thetransaction.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Right Two very different vantage points as far
as short-term quick win versusthe long relationship and I
think too like yourself ofcreating those long-term
relationships are reallysatisfying, and when you deliver
at a high level and areproactively looking for ways to
increase their returns and maybedo something uniquely and
(07:18):
outside of the box, that's goingto benefit them.
People value and appreciatethat and it's very reciprocal.
Them.
People value and appreciatethat and it's very reciprocal.
So, as we advance down, you hadmentioned about various asset
classes.
Is there one right now thatyou're really leaning into, or
one that you think is going toshift the market a little bit
(07:38):
more in the upcoming months oryear?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Sure.
So great question and, I think,really interesting timing as it
relates to where we are.
So we've invested across avariety of asset classes, but we
saw the lending market changingvery dramatically starting
about two years ago with theSilicon Valley Bank collapse,
the regulatory environmentchanging for virtually every
(08:04):
lender out there, interest ratesincreasing and just the whole
dynamic of commercial realestate lending kind of getting
turned on its head, and we sawsome similarities to what
happened in the GFC Definitelysome big differences, but we saw
some similarities.
And at the same time as supplyof capital or debt capital was
getting massively constrainedyou have more than $1.5 trillion
(08:29):
of commercial real estate loansmaturing, so you have this
giant demand for debt capitalbut you have a constricting
supply.
And so we saw an opportunity, orwe believe that there were
going to be some things thatbreak or just kind of a market
dislocation, and so we puttogether a private credit
vehicle to provide rescuecapital, subordinated debt and
(08:52):
preferred equity across assetclasses, so a little asset class
agnostic in the lower middlemarket space.
So we think that that's areally compelling space to be in
right now.
But we are also continuing tolean in on the residential
development side and that's bothfor rent and for sale product,
(09:13):
because the US is short three tosix million houses, depending
on which number you look at, andthat's not a problem.
That's going to get fixed veryquickly.
So we think that you know, overthe long term the residential
segment of the market makes alot of sense to be an investor
term.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
The residential segment of the market makes a
lot of sense to be an investor.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I agree, and where would you say that mindset
settles in with all of this?
Wow, that's a great question.
So, yeah, I think you can lookat it from the macro perspective
and you know we're not in abusiness that changes by the
minute, like trading stocksmight be, but you know we also
don't have a crystal ball andknow where where things are
going.
So you have to make sure thatthe fundamentals are strong, no
(10:01):
matter what may be happeningwith things outside of your
control.
From a mindset perspective, Ithink that's super important to
have stability, have compassion,have understanding.
And then, from a more microperspective, we all have
(10:21):
transactions that are gettingready to close and something
comes up and it's going to delayit or push it or you catch a
curveball at the last minute andhaving the again kind of
awareness and, um, almost uh,inner peace of everything is
going to be okay.
Um, having that, uh, having thatmindset really can just make
(10:44):
doing what we do a lot moreenjoyable or less stressful, and
that's not something that Ilearned, um, naturally, you know
it had to be very intentionalkind of process for me to get
there, and so had some verychallenging transactions where
things were coming up and Iwould get like physically ill
(11:05):
and I was like, okay,something's not right here, this
is not good right.
And for a variety of differentreasons, I ended up.
I had the opportunity to workwith a, an executive coach, who
was really um very active and adeep believer in the, the power
of mindset and and how that canimpact, um your effectiveness,
(11:27):
and he really turned me on toyou know, a couple great books
and some really interesting waysof thinking that I've put to
work over the last five yearsthat have really, you know,
increased my impactfulness andmy effectiveness and everything
I do, both internally with ourteam as well as externally, and
how we think about investmentstrategies or how we, you know,
(11:48):
transact with others definitely,and I think too that in life it
seems like people want to puteverything in a silo your career
is here, your personal life,all these other aspects and it's
they're all interrelated.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
So if you're crushing it in one, you know chances are
it's going to flow into theother and vice versa.
And that's where, too, I reallylike having that bigger macro
vantage point.
And so, with your example ofthe executive coach, they're
able to see that bigger picture,know all of your goals.
Obviously we know ourselves,but they also are able to see
(12:24):
that little part of us that wemay not always acknowledge or
think of when we're movingthrough.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
So it's really who you become on the journey when
you say absolutely, and I thinkfor people who are going back to
the kind of relationship topic.
But genuineness andauthenticity matters and you can
see that and as you'reinteracting with people, whether
it's in work or in you knowleisure activities.
You can see that and as you'reinteracting with people, whether
it's in work or in, you knowleisure activities.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
You can see that right I mean, we're all people.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
You can tell somebody's you know bs in you or
or they're legitimate orthey're being authentic, um, and
that matters and everything wedo right.
Like if you meet somebody outof the restaurant and they just
seem fake, you're not going tobe, you know, interested in
talking with them more.
If you meet somebody inbusiness and they're just
authentic and they are listeningand seem to really be
(13:14):
interested in what you're doingand how they can help, you're
going to want to do businesswith them.
So I think exactly as you saidis you know we're all people and
you don't compartmentalize froma work outside of work kind of
bucketing.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, and I think, too, everyone has a gut feel, a
gut intuition, and it's one ofthose.
Sometimes you see people with asmile and it's just like you
can just feel, though, thatsomething is off, and so, to
your point, having just thatcrystal clear trust in someone
makes all the difference.
And again, you're not investing.
You know even something verysmall they're typically big
(13:55):
amounts, and you want to knowthat your money is being
invested properly and that youhave a good relationship with
the investor.
So what would you say is a goodway?
So you've definitely, you know,transitioned over the years
from feeling kind of sick withdifferent deals to now of you
know, of being in that space ofstability, of kind of having
(14:18):
your resources.
What are a couple of thoseresources that you would
recommend as a go-to to reallyhelp people stay on the up and
up as they're moving throughstressful deals or capital
raises, things of that nature?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I think just physical exercise is a big one, whether
that's, you know, just walkingand letting your brain meander
as you of that nature.
I think just physical exerciseis a big one, whether that's
just walking and letting yourbrain meander as you do that, or
I'm big into lifting weightsand that's a good.
Get out some stress by doingthat, meditating and finding
things that really help youfocus, help you strip out some
of the noise.
(14:53):
I'm also a pilot, so for me,going up and flying around is
something that you still need tobe obviously paying attention
to what you're doing for safetyand all that, but it's just kind
of a Zen space for me.
So finding those things thatreally make you feel good and
kind of invigorate the body.
(15:14):
There's a big connection, Ithink, between you know the
physical body and how wellyou're, you're you keep, you're
taking care of your body and howwell your mind is functioning
and how effective you ultimatelycan be in work.
But I know you're really activein athletics or endurance.
(15:35):
How do you think about thatsame question?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I agree completely.
I frequently am asked how doyou find the time to run
marathons and also run your firm?
And for me it gives me energy,similar to weightlifting for you
and it's mindset, because whenyou don't feel like running and
you choose to because it'schoice.
I think that sends thatrepeated message throughout your
(16:01):
entire system mentally,physically, otherwise that
you're a person of your word,that you keep your commitments
and that you deliver foryourself and for others.
And I don't know how people doit without a physical outlet.
Well, I guess I do, becausemany, many decades ago I used to
not really work out and didn'tmake the best choices.
(16:23):
So it's one of those.
It's a staple of my life.
I look forward to it.
Like with anything, you'regoing to have days you don't
want to do it, but you're alwaysglad that you followed through
and did it right yeah, for sure,for sure yeah.
So my, my big question for you,doug, is how?
(16:43):
What does living fully mean toyou?
That's an unbelievable question.
Um yeah, oh, I know it's a hardhitter.
That's why I got you all warmedup.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Could probably talk for a really long time on what
that might mean and philosophize, et cetera, but I think for me
it's it really comes back tothat relationships concept and
finding people.
And this includes people youwork with internally.
You know friends that you thatdon't have anything to do with
work, but building meaningfulrelationships and meaningful can
(17:20):
mean a whole bunch of differentthings, but I think interacting
with people is one of myfavorite parts of the business.
Entrusting us with asignificant amount of their
capital for us to invest,whether that's dealing with
brokers who are advising us orhelping us source opportunities,
or representing us and leasingour properties, or vendors all
(17:45):
over the whole spectrum, butreally getting to know people
and learning about them andhelping them succeed.
And it may be direct ways, itmay be indirect ways, maybe
opening up doors for them, itmay be giving somebody a hand up
at a time when they need it,but really those things I find
so rewarding and and that's, youknow, I think that's the most
(18:09):
important thing for me.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Definitely, and actually you know what I do.
Have one more question.
I'd be remiss if I didn't askso your TEDx speech, which is
something I would love to do oneday tell our audience a little
about your how to harness theand experience and anybody who
(18:36):
has the opportunity definitelytry and step up and take it very
exciting and it was a very, uh,sometimes uncomfortable but
really rewarding experience forme.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
But the my talk was um, about the power of the ant
and really trying to.
This goes back to the mindsetquestion, which I think is is a
great one, but trying to find,um, more than just maybe the
obvious answer in things andthat could be, you know, this
(19:03):
property is an industrialproperty.
Well, maybe on its face it isthat, but maybe there's a way to
reposition it and extract a lotmore value.
So it's and it's better offbeing a multifamily property,
and that's just a really kind ofcheesy example.
But as we go to mindset, youknow I think we talk about this
a lot internally.
But how are there ways where Ican have the outcome that I'm
(19:23):
looking for and you or thecounterparty on the other side
can also get what they'relooking for?
And a lot of that comes down toasking questions and listening
and trying to understanddifferent people's viewpoints.
So it's an idea and it's aconcept that I try and pull into
my thinking, you know, as muchas I can, because I think there
(19:44):
are so many applications to it.
Sometimes it's very, you know,specific as to how we look at a
real estate investment.
Other times it's, you know,negotiation that we're entering
and it's not just what do I want, what do I need.
But hey, maybe there's a waywhere I can get that and I can
the seller or the buyer, I canhelp them accommodate what it is
(20:05):
that they're looking for.
And I'm guessing that in yourrole as a, as an advisor and and
um consultant in the brokerageside, you probably have to do
that quite a bit and the mosteffective people and kind of
bringing two perspectivestogether are the leaders in the
industry, definitely.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
And I would say, with the climate that we're in too,
the end for me really comes fromthat creative vantage point of
seeing it outside of the basicstructure, what people have done
, maybe how it's zoned andcreating the wind.
So with that, doug, thank youso much for joining us.
It was a true pleasure today.
And, folks, I will leave Doug'scontact information because I
(20:47):
know you're gonna wanna reachout to him.
So, doug, thank you so much.
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