September 7, 2021 • 46 mins
Check out Michelle & Pete Norman's Fun & Witty Love Story!
Divorce Worthy to Total Transformation in 18 hard earned years!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I first met Michelle when shewas in high school.
She didn't know it yet though.
I was, yeah, she didn't.
I was sitting on the couch, mycurrent girlfriend's house in
the town that she grew up in.
I saw Michelle on this video andI remember asking my girlfriend
at the time, who is that?
And that's when I first sawMichelle and we didn't actually
(00:22):
meet until I was a senior incollege.
I was a freshman.
Hi, my name is Camille Battagliaand I love sharing divine
connections, especially loveconnections.
I'm a fashion stylist, author,turned podcaster on each
episode.
You'll hear tips and strategiesthat you can implement in your
daily life to become moreeffective in your singleness or
(00:44):
married life.
Thanks for spending some timewith me today.
Now let's jump into your dailydose of divine connections on
Heavenly Hookups and thank youto my guests, Pete and Michelle
Norman for sharing their fun andtransformational love story.
I just wanted to thank you guysfor having me and interrupting
your vacation.
I just want to introduce you andtell everyone that you guys are,
(01:08):
you've been a huge impact on mylife.
And our relationship has beenlife-changing for me you're very
special people.
And I just thank you for that.
We met at a previous formerchurch and then Pete started to
go on this wild journey.
Next thing, I went to theKingdom Quake.
I didn't know you then, but Ihad met Tim powers actually at
(01:33):
lunch after church with afriend.
And he said, Hey, this KingdomQuake is starting.
You might be interested ingoing.
And I remember it was a couplemonths away and I was like,
yeah, absolutely.
I want to go.
And I went to that and I had noidea what I was walking into,
but it was a three-day prayer atthis, I think it was at the
(01:53):
Ebenezer's coffee house and HGwas there and he prophesied over
me, which I had neverexperienced before.
And it was just something aboutthat atmosphere.
I remember Carmella andCarrington being there, but I
hadn't met them.
And it was just a really cool, Ican't even describe it.
(02:16):
So from there you started thework is worship, and then you
started the Kingdom LifeMinistries.
And just through all of that,I've had major growth and I know
you all have as well.
Yeah, but, without you guys, Iwouldn't be where I am.
My kids wouldn't be where theyare.
And not to say that we'reperfect.
We still have a long way to go,but just our lives on a
(02:39):
different path than they wouldhave been.
We would have just been,probably going with the wind and
the atmosphere of the worldright now.
But anyway, I just wanted tothank you for being such an
important factor.
We thank you too.
I didn't even say this, we are afamily and that is what church
is not, just a place you go onSundays.
(03:01):
It's a amazing as a pastor ofKingdom Life Ministries,
essentially somebody who's just,lived life the same way but for
God but it's, we've got thisidea.
As a Pastor of a church the mostholy statement anybody can ever
say is that they actually learnfrom people like you Camille
that actually take things thatGod's given them a word.
(03:24):
And you talk to people.
I really believe this is God andI'm going to go do it and see
what God does.
That's what this podcast is.
And that's what your life is,that's what you're children are
being transformed.
The battles that you fought overthe past two years are battles
that your kids won't have tofight all because of your
faithfulness.
It's somewhat as a pastor of aChurch I've learned just as much
(03:45):
from you and have from the otherpastors.
Yeah.
Oh, that's so nice.
Cause I always, I feel like I'malways on the receiving end, so
I really appreciate you sayingthat.
No, not at all.
I love like your propheticinsight and your dreams and your
(04:06):
amazing daughter Gabby and thethings that she brings is just a
unique part of ministry and aunique part of the kingdom that
I think we hadn't reallyexperienced before meeting you
guys and getting to know youguys.
So our lives have been reallytouched by that in, in that way.
So we love you guys.
(04:28):
Yes.
Oh, that's so nice.
Yeah.
It's I don't know how todescribe this for anyone
listening, but it's truly afamily.
It's not a dysfunctional familywhere you have to get together.
Yeah.
There's some dysfunction hereand there.
It could be me at times.
But if, most part what I'msaying about family, like true
(04:50):
family, it feels like we allfound a place where.
We belong, right?
There's true love there for eachother.
We're all going through battles.
Like life is not perfect, but wecan all rally around that person
and whatever they're goingthrough and pray for them and
comfort them and encourage them.
I've never felt that way beforeever.
Yeah.
Except for when my earthlyparents were, here, but yeah.
(05:14):
I don't get that with, mostother friendships.
So it's really been a blessing.
Yeah, it's been awesome justbeginning.
It's just beginning.
So anyway, we're here to talkabout a little bit about your
life and your love story.
Why don't we go back and we talkabout how you guys met, where
you met?
Sure.
(05:34):
I guess Michelle's looking at meto get started.
So I guess I'll get started.
I first met Michelle when shewas in high school.
She didn't know it yet though.
I was, yeah, she didn't.
I was sitting on the couch, mycurrent girlfriend's house in
the town that she grew up in.
Actually, Michelle your townWest Unity, Ohio.
How many people live there?
Oh, I don't know.
(05:55):
A couple of thousand.
Yeah, 2000.
She was, and I'm not from there.
We went to school up in Adriancollege in Michigan.
I managed to date two girls fromthis small town and it was my
sophomore year, junior year,sophomore year, no junior
college where I turned thisvideo on, my girlfriend at the
(06:16):
time, her brother.
A year younger than me.
Or prom.
Yeah.
I saw Michelle on this video andI remember asking my girlfriend
at the time, who is that?
And that's when I first sawMichelle and we didn't actually
meet until I was a senior incollege.
I was a freshman.
You were an incoming freshmenand I had to get into law
(06:38):
school.
So my advisor at the time toldme I needed amping up my credits
for all my extracurricularstuff.
Padding your resume?
Because partying wasn't a partof my extracurriculars, that law
schools like to recognize andthis is is pre-Jesus days.
Yeah.
So in order to get into lawschool, I had to become like a
(06:59):
senior advisor and teach.
Literally, I taught welcome tocollege one-on-one for all of
the freshman.
And I met Michelle at thatincoming orientation.
Remember that?
Yep.
These were her pre-Jesus daystoo.
These were my pre-Jesus days.
Yes.
So I see her, I'm like, Hey, shetalked to me and she was looking
(07:20):
around at everybody, but me I'mlike, I actually wanted to tell
her, I was like, you don'trealize I'm cool.
I'm a big deal.
Because there's only a 1000 ofus, a 1,000 of your best
friends.
I remember in DC with a workthing.
Only my college professors,history professor her daughter
worked in DC.
And I remember looking at mytwin brother, identical twin,
(07:43):
and she looked at me.
Kinda stared at me and said, mydad tells me you were quite a
presence.
So that's a nice way of sayingit.
I wanted to tell Michelle,listen, you don't know me but
you will.
And you'll want to.
That was it.
Well in full disclosure on that,I was probably, a little sleepy
(08:06):
and slightly hung over because Ihad graduated from high school
the day before and went out toall the graduation parties and
had to roll out of bed andhustled up to school so that my
friend and I at the time werenot late for this orientation.
(08:27):
So that's where we met.
That was my senior year, yourfreshman year.
Yep.
We got to know each other prettywell, but it was just friends.
Yeah.
And then she got a littlejealous when I was talking to
other girls.
I know that.
Sure.
Yeah.
So anyway, a few years went byand then I came back to college
(08:49):
for Homecoming.
Yes.
We just hung out.
Like now this was my senioryear.
You're my third year of lawschool.
And at the time it was going tolaw school in DC.
So I came out from DC toMichigan, Adrian college and we
hung out like, we'reinseparable, basically was 12
hours, two days we were there.
(09:10):
And then we just kept talkingafter that.
Yeah.
He asked me.
He could call me.
Did I?
Yeah.
So I gave you your number didsaid you have to go back to DC,
which I thought would impressher.
I've got to go back toWashington.
That be she's terribly impressedby that.
And she did give me her number.
You did give me your number.
(09:30):
I did.
I did.
I think you called me that nightwhen you got home, just to let
you know I was safe.
Yeah.
Then we just kept talking untila then you moved down to DC that
spring.
I did.
Yeah.
After I graduated from Adrianand you graduated law school, I
(09:51):
think we graduated maybe a weekor so apart and yeah, I decided
going to pack up all my stuffand move down and he helped me
find an apartment.
In Virginia.
Yeah.
I lived in Maryland.
(10:14):
So then I was like since youmoved down then, I guess we
should probably talk aboutgetting married, which I was
totally pushing.
And this is where things get alittle dicey.
Wait a minute.
Okay.
How long did you date before shemoved to?
Virginia?
Yeah, was it the 12 hours you'retogether.
You gave her the phone numberand then you graduated.
(10:36):
So let's see homecoming wouldhave been sometime in October
and we talked long distance, Iguess we should say also that
our breaks our Christmas breaks,coincided with each other.
So for a couple of weeks, wewere both back in Ohio.
Okay.
So we were able to hang out witheach other and actually go on
(10:58):
dates and stuff.
And then.
I, we would have moved down.
I think I graduated the end ofApril.
He graduated in May, so I wouldhave moved down in May.
Okay.
That makes more sense now.
Yeah, it's October.
Yeah.
At this point we're talking2002.
(11:20):
I guess we just hung out for along time.
I know I kept talking to herabout a long time.
And when we got married, like ayear later, he proposed maybe
six weeks after I moved down.
Wow.
Yeah.
I think I moved down in likemay, beginning of may.
And then we got married almost ayear to the day that you
(11:42):
proposed, which says the answeris just the end of June.
Yeah.
So we got engaged.
I was 22.
Yeah.
We were babies.
We were definitely, I marriedthe right woman.
It was just the wrong time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We had no idea what you'redoing.
That's when pretty mucheverything went south.
(12:03):
Our first few years of marriagewere not great.
Our year of engagement was notgreat.
Cause we're just all trying tofigure it out, starting a career
in Washington.
For both of us it's just not agood thing to do all the while
we were just getting to knowpeople.
Yeah.
For Washington, when you'reyoung, you graduate college, you
(12:23):
think you're going into adultlife, but if you're living
around Capitol Hill it was justlike college all over.
We were going out all the time.
That's how it was all the time,again this is pre-Jesus for us.
It was just constantly going outwith everything else.
It was just really quiteunpleasant.
Yeah.
We loved each other.
Yeah, a lot of it too is in ustrying to figure that out.
(12:46):
And Pete and I, not being insimilar industries for work
either.
So that was different.
And so me finding friends andhim finding friends, we weren't
really finding friends thatintersected and then.
It was like we were married andwe lived together, but we were
still pursuing our owninterests.
(13:08):
Separate lives.
Yeah.
Even though I would go out withhim and with his friends it
just, there wasn't thatcohesiveness, at least that I
feel like we have now we werestill living selfish, separate
ish lives and trying to figureout how to do that side by side
instead of doing it together.
Exactly.
(13:29):
Yeah.
You guys weren't one yet?
No, not even close.
And then we were hanging outwith a bunch of single people
too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We were not two peas in a pod,at all.
But then that was literally thefirst week.
Yeah, for some, again, somestupid reason we decided that
let's have a child.
(13:49):
We didn't even get along.
Divorce was never discussed.,but that's the one thing,
neither one of us, neither oneof our parents were divorced.
Right.
If I can be very deep.
I remember getting this is Iguess, I am looking at Michelle,
she knows this story anyway.
So I was at a distance.
(14:10):
It's a little racy, but Iremember so when Michelle was
she was I don't, how do I saythis politely, the older we get
our bodies change.
And Michelle has had threebabies, three babies.
So before Michelle got married,she was, she played volleyball
in college.
And her, she was, how do I sayit?
Yeah.
Is that okay?
What did you say?
Yeah.
She had good boobs.
Oh, I, is that okay to stay on aChristian podcast?
(14:34):
I don't know.
I don't know how to say it.
I guess.
She was very attractive.
She was a brick house.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We got married.
Your body changes.
That's how deep I was as a humanbeing.
It's like standing at the altar,watching me walk down.
If her body changes?
(14:54):
That's literally what I thought.
I think I remember thinkinglike, would I love you if you
didn't have hair?
Yeah.
So that was, crazy.
That's so funny, then you haveyour first child.
And we find out we're pregnant.
And I remember oh man, I have toget my act together.
Let's see if she was thinking,the same thing.
And we started going to church.
(15:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I would say it's not that wedidn't try to go to church
before we had kids, like duringour marriage.
For just a little bit ofbackground, I grew up Methodist
and Pete grew upnon-denominational I would say
more charismatic.
So I think even the styles ofchurch and religion that we were
(15:39):
used to were very different fromone another.
When we would try and find achurch, I would try and find
something that was a little bitmore conservative, which he
didn't love.
And, we would go to differentchurches and it just felt a
little empty for both of us.
Like we just never really foundanything that felt like it fit.
(16:00):
And then yeah, we just stoppedreally pursuing that, I think
until we had Isaac.
Yeah.
The more I started pursuing God,the more I started pursuing
Jesus.
What the Holy Spirit had for us.
The closer our relationship got.
Yeah.
And that's really that's.
(16:23):
Listen, we were just, we justopened up talking about KLM is a
family, right?
The church is the Bride ofChrist.
The more you pursue theBridegroom the more, you become
like the Bride.
The more you pursue Jesus, themore you actually realize that
you are literally a part of hisbody, it's physical body on
(16:48):
earth.
So the more you love to pursueJesus and recognize his love for
you, the more you love yourself.
Yeah.
Bottom line is we didn't knowhow to love each other because
we didn't love ourselves.
Yeah.
We didn't respect ourselves.
Yeah.
We didn't realize the damagewe're doing to our own spirits
when you're pursuing.
Obviously then Isaac's born,we'd go through this bit of
(17:11):
repentance.
Listen, I've got to honor thiskid and I've got to show him
what it's like to be a dad firstand foremost.
How you treat your wife firstand foremost, right?
The raciness of describingMichelle's body when it wasn't
on accident and we don't hearpeople in the ministry, talk to
(17:31):
that way that often.
But that's how stupid I wascompared to now, when I see
this, woman, of God, she'sChrist's daughter.
She's literally the sister ofJesus Christ.
The daughter God and if I don'thonor her, I am not honoring
(17:52):
him.
So that's what we ended uphaving a to figure out.
Yeah, it's amazing.
So in 2015, we're going tochurch by every definition.
Being a good church family, wedid it right.
We went to church on Sunday.
In 2015, we had three kids,three boys, and I, we were even
(18:14):
tithing.
Come on.
Like how much of the churchtithes, right?
Yeah.
We were tithing and we dideverything except for our hearts
weren't after God as much asthey should have been.
So then I started getting thishunger saying, all right
everything works good.
I have a beautiful wife, thefamily.
But then I started getting thishunger.
(18:35):
Why in the world was I born?
What is the whole purpose of it?
I hear pastors say, listen toGod, do what he tells you to do.
Everything will fall into place,but nobody ever teaches you how
to hear from God.
I wanted to hear, everybodywants to hear.
Yeah.
Nobody ever teaches you how todo it.
(18:55):
So I just got this hunger insideand I just, I started fasting
and I remember.
Telling her, I wasn't going toeat.
And I was like, you think I'mcrazy don't I?
She's yeah, yes I did.
Yes.
I'm more of an observer.
I think Pete's more of a jump inwith two feet when he's got
(19:16):
something that's pulling on him,something that he's going after.
And I want to sit back and waitand watch and see.
So I definitely did that.
This journey that he started, Ijust sat back and watched how
this was all going to play out.
What is this, what is he doing?
What, where is he going?
How is this, what does this looklike?
(19:37):
Is because again, just coming, Ithink from a more traditional
back ground I didn't, believe inpraying in tongues.
I didn't believe in even justraising your hands and worship.
Praying over people, differentthings like that.
So for him to be having thesedesires to fast or to go after
these things, these spiritualthings, it was really new to me.
(19:59):
And so I just I trusted him.
I loved him.
So I knew that he wasn't goingto do anything crazy, but I
didn't really know what it was.
So I took a backseat to him andjust watched.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He definitely led.
We go to Church on Sunday, alady named Sally, she comes up
(20:20):
to me.
She says, are you in theministry?
I said no, but I'll do anythingthe Lord asks me.
Sally prophesied and said, I seeyou in a, just like HG
prophesied over you at KingdomQuake, prophesies, and says, I
see you in a conference roomteaching your peers during bible
study.
And I said to her a well, I'mnot doing that, but I'll do
anything the Lord asks, a fewmonths later, that's exactly
(20:43):
what we were doing.
Now, that was about seven monthsafter I got that prophecy.
And I started, I got a propheticword and I started believing for
that prophetic word.
Never taught the Bible toanybody.
I was reading it like a rabid,crazy.
Just because I wanted to hearGod's voice and I was really
(21:05):
just looking at feeling for God.
That's what the Bible says.
And I feel for him.
So what I would do is basically,I was like, I was running the
race right.
There was a having prize that Iwas being called to and I was
just running as fast as I could,all right, God, I'm going to do
anything you want.
And a part of that was being agood husband, right?
Any man who wants to live forGod has to have that hunger
(21:29):
first.
So you can't convince.
And there's a lot of people thatI've talked to him all the time.
They'll say I'm a believer.
My wife is not.
Or the wife will say, I'm abeliever but my husband is not
you're not going to convincepeople like that Jesus is King.
Unless you can show them first,we're called to demonstrate
(21:50):
power of the Kingdom of God, notjust try to convince people the
power of the Kingdom.
So that's why everything I did.
I didn't necessarily explain itto Michelle because I didn't
know, but I wanted to show herthat I was changed.
Because I used to come home andI played video games as a
married man.
(22:11):
But instead, what I try to do isat least invest some time into
her.
Now, I don't play video gamesanymore, it's not exciting.
It's rather be with her.
And there's that transformationthat happens along the way.
And that's what she started tosee.
So I didn't pick at her so much.
I tried not to too at least.
(22:32):
Still not perfect.
But it was just that once youget touched by the finger of God
in your life, and this is thedifference between religion and
everything else, it shows up inyour home.
And for me, it was out ofeverything else.
When I die, I wanted to be saidI was a good husband and a great
dad, everything after that, itwas only but for God.
(22:58):
And that's what I tried to showher and still do every single
day.
And then God just goes waybeyond that to touch other
people.
But it starts when you wake upin the morning, you seek God.
I am looking at her to see ifthere is anything she would like
to add?
She likes to be nice to me andI'm nice to her.
(23:21):
So there that's pretty much ourstory so far I get touched by
everything I do is to pleasehim.
And we look back on things.
I lied to her in the firstcouple of years of our marriage.
You know what I do I tell her,hey, listen, I lied to you about
this years ago.
And it doesn't mean anything toher so much, but it does to me.
(23:45):
That's just a constant, you liveto be fully transparent and
fully naked before your spousebecause God, sees everything.
So that's kinda how we live lifetogether.
Just trying to live as honestlyas we can.
And knowing that everything thatwe did.
(24:06):
So when I got touched by God in2015, One of the things that I
did was I got baptized.
I got baptized when I was 12,but then I went and got baptized
when I was 38 years old.
And some people would say whichis true.
You do only need to be baptizedonce.
But I can tell you, I didn'tknow what I was doing when I was
(24:30):
12 as much as I did when I was38.
So what happened?
Pete Norman, the old man wasdead and buried.
And then I rose up in thatbaptism, a completely new man,
right?
The old man is dead and buriedis in the pit of hell with the
devil, and everything I didbefore the devil has to deal
(24:52):
with it, that's why he hates itso much.
So he tries to remind us of allthe things we did.
And you too got babtized in theJordan river, right?
I did.
So I got dedicated and sprinkledas a baby actually I might have
as well went throughconfirmation classes when I was
(25:13):
12 or 13.
I'd have to, this is my memory,trying to remember if we did
that.
I'm sure it was probably part ofour confirmation.
At the end was that we, just alittle dip of the water on the
head and that was it.
So once, I saw him going throughthis transformation.
It just grew the hunger insideof me of wanting to know the
(25:34):
Lord more and wanting to know,is this stuff real?
Is there more than what I know?
Is there more than what I wastaught and just going on that
journey myself to knowing God.
And they had a trip to Israeland our old church and so Pete
(25:55):
and I were both excited, wantingto go, but knowing that we've
got young children at home, wecertainly couldn't leave for 10,
12 days, the two of us and leaveour boys at home.
We talked and we asked Pete'sparents if they would watch the
kids and we asked Pete's mom, ifshe wanted to go, he was pretty
adamant that he felt like Ishould go on this trip and he
(26:19):
would stay home.
So his mom and I went to Israeltogether and his dad stayed home
with him and they took care ofthe kids, getting them to school
and all the things.
And I realized that for me, whenI would read things in the Bible
and I would see them, if itwasn't true in my life, if it
wasn't part of my life, then Iwanted to take that step to do
(26:42):
that.
Water baptism is immersionbaptism was something that you
read that was something thatJesus did.
And John even says you don'tneed to do this.
And he was like, no, but I do.
I'm obeying my father.
He was showing us the way.
And so when I read that, Iremember that just really
(27:02):
speaking to me that.
I hadn't done that.
And if Jesus did it and Jesusthought that it was important to
do it, then I needed to do thattoo.
Our old church, I think they didbaptisms monthly.
And I think when I had thisrevelation that I needed to have
this done they weren't going tobe having a baptism again for
maybe another month, but sayingthat we would be going to the
(27:24):
Jordan river and we could do itthere.
So I got water baptized in theJordan river.
For the first time.
Oh, wow.
That's really cool.
That is pretty amazing.
So think about that.
So everything that she didbefore that.
So think about this for the, forme, I didn't say, Hey, Michelle,
believe in Jesus.
(27:44):
If you're going to go to hell.
No, no it's about the Kingdomcome will be done on earth as it
is in Heaven.
It was on me to change theenvironment in my home to make
that home feel like Heaven is onearth she then gets touched the
seed of the Kingdom was plantedin me, multiplied through her
and will be for generationsthrough our family.
And she decides to get baptizedin the Jordan river, even though
(28:08):
I would've liked to have gone onthat trip.
I felt like the Lord told her togo.
So then she gets baptized.
Now, as I told you, the firstcouple of years of our marriage,
we're really bad.
They were divorce worthy inevery respect, but she gets
baptized in the Jordan river.
(28:29):
Now, when we look back on it,can I blame her today for
anything in the past?
No, no, no.
That's old Michelle was buriedin the Jordan river.
New Michelle here who's put onChrist.
Who was also dedicated to bringthe Kingdom of God to earth, as
it is in Heaven.
Can I really blame her foranything she did before that?
No, I can't.
That's old Michelle only satandoes that.
(28:51):
So I'm not going to partner withthe kingdom of darkness to put
condemnation on anything fromthe past, but Philippians 3 says
I don't mean to say that I'vealready achieved these things or
reached perfection, but I presson.
To possess the perfection forwhich Christ Jesus, first
possessd for me.
(29:12):
And then he says, I've notachieved it by focus on this one
thing forgetting the past andlooking forward to what lies
ahead.
I press on to reach the end ofthe race and receive the
heavenly prize, for which Godthrough Christ Jesus, is calling
us.
The Heavenly prize that God'scalling us to do is fulfilled in
(29:33):
marriage.
Family, everything that emanatesoutside of the house.
And yeah, if you're going tohave a strong marriage, it's
forgetting the past and lookingforward.
Because what happened to Lot'swife.
She looked back, she turned intoa pillar of salt.
Why, because she's frozen intime.
(29:54):
You looked at the past you'll befrozen in that spot.
The enemy can attack, not justyou, your marriage and then your
children's and then theirchildren's we're fighting
battles.
Now that our children will nothave to fight because we've won
successful.
And that's why to me HeavenlyHookup, it's just that you're
(30:17):
hooking arms to do battle forfuture generations that God's
trusted you for.
It's way more intense than wegive credit for, marriage.
That's why God said it's apicture of Christ and the church
whenever he puts it together,let no man tear apart.
(30:37):
Why is that?
It's a picture of Christ in thechurch and it's not church on
Sundays and churches is the bodyof Christ called to do battle
we're soldiers of the Kingdom ofGod.
And how we do battles first andforemost is what?
Love God, love your neighbor.
Jesus said, if you love me,you'll obey my commands.
And guess what?
That command runs right throughyour marriage.
(31:00):
Husband's love your wives, loveyour husband.
Yeah.
And I think you can see that.
Your relationship with God isreflected in your relationship
with other people.
And I think our marriage hasbeen such a picture of that,
that before we had really givenour lives to the Lord and made
(31:22):
him put him as king of ourlives, you could see that we
didn't have a relationship withthe Lord because we didn't have
a good relationship with oneanother.
And the closer as Pete said, wedraw to the Lord individually.
That transformation starts tohappen and just organically
through the kingdom, we start tochange towards one another and
(31:46):
we can, forgive one another morequickly, repent before one
another, bring these things toeach other.
We can let go of the past.
We can, do all of these thingshave, we don't even really
fight.
I would say any more.
I think we have discussions, butthere's a, there's just such a
respect for one another that I,I can't think of something that
(32:09):
I would say, oh, that's the hillI'm going to die on with him.
There's compromise.
There's deference towards oneanother.
There's just learning.
I don't have to have my way.
That's not what's important,being a peacemaker and keeping
peace.
And for me, what's important tohim.
And being able to lay down whatI think is important to put his,
(32:32):
what his feelings above my own.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And my last thought is just onthis, he truly put God first.
And like I said, the early yearswe could have gotten divorced
and everybody would have said,yeah you should.
But there's a thing of fightingthrough it.
And once you, both of you haveto be committed to fighting
(32:53):
through it.
Yeah, but fighting through it,not for the sake of fighting,
because we could not have fixedour problem period, but it took
us going after God to look backand be like, wow.
It's amazing how I get baptized.
Like at a conference, just likeyou went to a Kingdom Quake.
I too went to a conference in myhome church and I was like, I
(33:16):
need to get baptized and I didit on the spot and then she gets
baptized in Jordan river, weweren't even together.
And it happened.
That's amazing how the new Peteand the new Michelle rose up
together to love Christ toactually really, truly be bonded
marital partners we wereintended to be, so that would be
my advice, to people.
(33:38):
That's the Kingdom of God.
Peter, when he stood up to andact on the day of Pentecost, he
stepped forward and thenpreached the kingdom and 3000
people were added to the church.
You first step, there's aprophetic act in everything you
do.
You don't believe that you needto get baptized, go and do it
again.
I wouldn't say you can't right.
(33:59):
You know what?
I would do it every single dayto show my wife I am better.
Oh, that's so good.
You're telling me a lot ofthings I haven't heard before.
So that was a treat.
Yeah.
The whole thing about thebaptism.
I never thought of it that way,where once you've been, or even
once you've given your life toChrist that the enemy keeps
(34:19):
trying to bring back your past,but it's already gone.
It's dead and buried.
You rise out of the water, whenyou give your life, the Bible
says you're a new creation inChrist, behold, all things are
made new.
So when you're a new creation inChrist in the Greek new Crete
creature coded one that neverexisted.
So when Camille surrenders toJesus Christ that new creation,
(34:44):
there's never been another humanbeing in the history of mankind
ever.
Been created, like Camille neverwill be created.
Never ever to be seen everagain.
There's only one of you.
And then all things are new,which means, yes, there are
consequences of your actions,but guess what?
(35:04):
All things worked out for good,for those who love him.
Right?
Love, your defined as Jesussays, you love me you will obey
my commands.
So if you live in obedience andsurrender to him, all of your
circumstances will work out.
For your good because God useseverything.
(35:24):
The key there being totallysurrendered.
I hear people all the time sayno, it's God's will this, no,
no, no if you surrender to himand then his will be all things
are good for you.
And that's we just have to livesurrendered lives.
As long as we're surrendered tohim, everything's going to go
not great.
(35:45):
Your circumstances.
Aren't gonna be great.
Know what, he's in charge of,not just current circumstances,
dealing with your pastcircumstances as he leads you
into the future.
That's what marriage is.
I can't blame Michelle, foranything that she did in her
20's.
I just can't.
She did our first couple ofyears of marriage, because quite
(36:08):
frankly, that's exactly whatsatan does, if you look at, I am
not going to partner with thedevil to condemn Michelle.
Yeah, we have to see eachother's that new creation that,
not bringing up, you always dothis or you never do this these
statements, that we have to giveeach other grace and realizing
(36:30):
that we are being transformed.
So sometimes we may behave in anold manner or an old pattern
that we need to lay down and weneed to just surrender to the
Lord.
Giving each other grace, to knowthat we are dedicated to the
Lord.
We're dedicated to one another.
And knowing that if I mess up,Pete's not going to accuse me.
(36:52):
That's huge just having thattrust with your spouse, that you
can come to them and be able tosay, and with a heart of
repentance and know that you'regoing to be received in a good
way.
Like that you become to the Lordand repent before the Lord.
And he is always quick toforgive and to be able to have
(37:14):
that then with your spouse aswell is really huge.
Yeah.
And I think for me with baptismone of the things that really
helped me silence that voice ofthe enemy was that when Jesus
died on the cross and he diedfor our sins.
And he died for that.
When you give your life to himand you're baptized, like I
(37:36):
don't have that old Michelle isgone.
So I don't have the right tograb onto that.
I don't have the right to lookback at all my past mistakes
anymore because Jesus boughtthat life.
He paid for that life, with hisblood.
And so I've got to be able tojust let that go.
I've got to be able to bring itand all that does when Satan
(37:58):
tries to bring that stuff up ismaybe that's a place you need to
go, and pray before the Lord andrepent for that past thing and
bring that up to the Lordbecause when you bring it to the
light, it loses its power andsatan can't come and accuse you
anymore.
And you can say.
No that's done.
That's old.
(38:18):
Michelle.
You don't get to talk to meabout that anymore.
I'm a new creation and live inthat place.
Wow.
That's so good.
You guys ministered to me justright now.
It's amazing.
As we wrap it up here, is thereanything that you would like to
add for people who are marriedor for singles who are looking
(38:38):
to get married?
Yeah, for one is chase afterGod.
Can't unless you learn the loveof the Father, you go through a
partnership with the HolySpirit.
You won't be able to loveyourself until you love
yourself, you won't be ready tolove others.
(38:59):
That's where I would say toanybody that is single.
Talk to him like he was yourdad.
I told him, dad, listen, I wantto get married, or, I want to
love my spouse, I would say, I'dask until you bring that person
(39:22):
to me, fill that void, watchwhat he does.
I think one of the scariestthings that people who go to
hell.
Hell was not made for people.
Hell was made for the devil andfallen angels and people go
there because they have achoice.
Why, we are made to worship andyou will follow whatever you
(39:45):
worship, if you worship JesusChrist as your Lord, Heaven's
your place.
If you worship money as yourLord, Hell is where you're going
to go, and you're going to bebound by that money for
eternity.
So that's an example.
So I would say, he's not a farout being like this, he is so
intimate and hell is that placewhere people for eternity
(40:07):
realize, how close he is.
Think about this in Genesis one,he said, light be Jesus Christ
is the light of the world.
We make things so difficultCamille.
Light is of God.
Hell is darkness.
The bottomless pit of darkness.
(40:29):
What does that tell you?
Light is of God.
You're surrounded by light.
Paul says in him, we live andmove and have our being that's
light.
Yeah.
Light is God and I don't he'sthat close.
So let's not find out.
Let's not wait to desire theintimacy for Heaven.
(40:51):
When you could have him now, askhim for that intimacy, that you
so desire of a spouse.
A future spouse or a currentspouse, ask him to fill that
intimacy with me now.
So you can probably get thething that about Michelle and
me.
It's not that we met eachother's needs, then our needs
are met first in Christ.
(41:11):
And then out of that intimacy,we have with them out of that
intimacy with the light of theLord, we then turned to each
other.
So first for future spousesprepare.
Be prepared with the intimacy ofthe light of this world.
Be prepared.
With the intimacy of the holyspirit now?
Because guess what?
(41:32):
God wants to touch every singleperson on this planet and be
prepared now because that nextperson who could cross your path
could be the one that you'redestined to marry.
Don't miss it by not beingfilled with the intimacy of the
Lord.
That's all.
That's what, I would say.
So you're saying, if you're notprepared in the Holy Spirit and
(41:55):
the other let's say you're notprepared and the other person is
prepared and God may not bringyou two together because you're
not where you're supposed to be.
Is that what you're saying?
Or no, it's a, God's all.
Yeah.
That or God's telling you, andyou're not hearing it, God's
telling you who the person is,but you're just not hearing.
Huh?
That's the thing.
Michelle and I were goingthrough, like I said, we're
(42:17):
going to a really hard thosefirst couple of years, I could
have said, enough I'm done.
Clearly as much as you know uswe're meant to be together.
Yeah.
We just have to fight throughit.
So be prepared by havingintimacy with the Lord.
And at that moment, he will tellyou.
(42:38):
Does that make sense?
Yup.
Yep.
Yeah.
I think Pete's touching on kindof what I was thinking too, is
just, like meeting someone isnever gonna be your fulfillment.
Like you're not going to befulfilled in your spouse.
There's you know, so to look forthat, but I think that.
(43:00):
It's good to have.
If you have the desire to getmarried, that's fantastic.
The Lord is probably giving youthat desire and, just being
close to him, you've got to beable to have value for yourself.
Honor yourself.
Love yourself.
As Pete said to be able to cometogether then as a couple in
marriage and as we've talkedabout, right?
(43:22):
It's that individual journeythat then culminates into a good
marriage and you're always, evenafter 18 years of marriage,
we're still working on ourselvesand it just flows from that
place into our marriage andtowards one another.
So you're not looking forsomebody to just fulfill you if
(43:45):
you're already married.
Don't look to your spouse tochange.
If there's issues in yourmarriage, you've got to always
be introspective.
You've always got to be lookingat yourself.
First and foremost, and havingrelationship with the Lord and
being intimate with him is huge.
And it's, that's just going tostrengthen your marriage if you
(44:06):
have, if you're married and ifyou're not.
I fully believe that, Jesus saysthat we are the light as he is
the light.
And as you are filled with theLord that light's going to draw
people to you.
And it's going to, if you'refollowing the Lord, he's gonna
put you in the places that youneed to be in.
He's going to introduce you tothe people that you need to meet
and just trusting in him andtrusting in his timing I think
(44:29):
is where you need to be.
Because as Pete and I have saidthere's.
We can look back and see whereour, how many times our paths
could have crossed and even incollege knowing one another, but
never being drawn to one anotherand in a romantic way until it
was the right time.
And even with the issues withinour marriage that we had there
(44:52):
was never.
A time of like really, gettingdivorced.
It just wasn't something thatwas on either of our hearts.
And so just knowing that, thatwhole time through the struggles
and through everything that likethe Spirit was there, like we
were still being lived by theSpirit, even if we didn't know
we were.
And just trusting in that.
(45:14):
Yeah.
It's hard earned, man.
This is a hard earned it's ahard earned hour.
We just spent with you.
It took 18 years to get to thispoint of comfort and it's not
perfect.
That's a good point.
We don't want people to leavewith like, oh, wow everything is
perfect.
Okay, marriage is hard work.
Yeah, and it took 18 years toget there.
(45:36):
So that is a good point.
All right.
Thank you guys so much.
I love you.
And I appreciate you spendingthe time with me today, and I
think people are gonna really beblessed by your message.
Thank you for tuning in totoday's episode and thank you to
my guests, Pete and MichelleNorman for sharing their fun and
(45:59):
transformational love story, youcan contact them@klmdc.org.
For more episodes of a HeavenlyHookups please follow us on
Instagram at Heavenlyhookup_S.
I'm Camille Battaglia we'll seeyou next time on Heavenly
Hookups.
I first met Michelle when shewas in high school.
She didn't know it yet though.
I was, yeah, she didn't.
I was sitting on the couch, mycurrent girlfriend's house in
the town that she grew up in.
I saw Michelle on this video andI remember asking my girlfriend
at the time, who is that?
And that's when I first sawMichelle and we didn't actually
(00:22):
meet until I was a senior incollege.
I was a freshman.
Hi, my name is Camille Battagliaand I love sharing divine
connections, especially loveconnections.
I'm a fashion stylist, author,turned podcaster on each
episode.
You'll hear tips and strategiesthat you can implement in your
daily life to become moreeffective in your singleness or
(00:44):
married life.
Thanks for spending some timewith me today.
Now let's jump into your dailydose of divine connections on
Heavenly Hookups and thank youto my guests, Pete and Michelle
Norman for sharing their fun andtransformational love story.
I just wanted to thank you guysfor having me and interrupting
your vacation.
I just want to introduce you andtell everyone that you guys are,
(01:08):
you've been a huge impact on mylife.
And our relationship has beenlife-changing for me you're very
special people.
And I just thank you for that.
We met at a previous formerchurch and then Pete started to
go on this wild journey.
Next thing, I went to theKingdom Quake.
I didn't know you then, but Ihad met Tim powers actually at
(01:33):
lunch after church with afriend.
And he said, Hey, this KingdomQuake is starting.
You might be interested ingoing.
And I remember it was a couplemonths away and I was like,
yeah, absolutely.
I want to go.
And I went to that and I had noidea what I was walking into,
but it was a three-day prayer atthis, I think it was at the
(01:53):
Ebenezer's coffee house and HGwas there and he prophesied over
me, which I had neverexperienced before.
And it was just something aboutthat atmosphere.
I remember Carmella andCarrington being there, but I
hadn't met them.
And it was just a really cool, Ican't even describe it.
(02:16):
So from there you started thework is worship, and then you
started the Kingdom LifeMinistries.
And just through all of that,I've had major growth and I know
you all have as well.
Yeah, but, without you guys, Iwouldn't be where I am.
My kids wouldn't be where theyare.
And not to say that we'reperfect.
We still have a long way to go,but just our lives on a
(02:39):
different path than they wouldhave been.
We would have just been,probably going with the wind and
the atmosphere of the worldright now.
But anyway, I just wanted tothank you for being such an
important factor.
We thank you too.
I didn't even say this, we are afamily and that is what church
is not, just a place you go onSundays.
(03:01):
It's a amazing as a pastor ofKingdom Life Ministries,
essentially somebody who's just,lived life the same way but for
God but it's, we've got thisidea.
As a Pastor of a church the mostholy statement anybody can ever
say is that they actually learnfrom people like you Camille
that actually take things thatGod's given them a word.
(03:24):
And you talk to people.
I really believe this is God andI'm going to go do it and see
what God does.
That's what this podcast is.
And that's what your life is,that's what you're children are
being transformed.
The battles that you fought overthe past two years are battles
that your kids won't have tofight all because of your
faithfulness.
It's somewhat as a pastor of aChurch I've learned just as much
(03:45):
from you and have from the otherpastors.
Yeah.
Oh, that's so nice.
Cause I always, I feel like I'malways on the receiving end, so
I really appreciate you sayingthat.
No, not at all.
I love like your propheticinsight and your dreams and your
(04:06):
amazing daughter Gabby and thethings that she brings is just a
unique part of ministry and aunique part of the kingdom that
I think we hadn't reallyexperienced before meeting you
guys and getting to know youguys.
So our lives have been reallytouched by that in, in that way.
So we love you guys.
(04:28):
Yes.
Oh, that's so nice.
Yeah.
It's I don't know how todescribe this for anyone
listening, but it's truly afamily.
It's not a dysfunctional familywhere you have to get together.
Yeah.
There's some dysfunction hereand there.
It could be me at times.
But if, most part what I'msaying about family, like true
(04:50):
family, it feels like we allfound a place where.
We belong, right?
There's true love there for eachother.
We're all going through battles.
Like life is not perfect, but wecan all rally around that person
and whatever they're goingthrough and pray for them and
comfort them and encourage them.
I've never felt that way beforeever.
Yeah.
Except for when my earthlyparents were, here, but yeah.
(05:14):
I don't get that with, mostother friendships.
So it's really been a blessing.
Yeah, it's been awesome justbeginning.
It's just beginning.
So anyway, we're here to talkabout a little bit about your
life and your love story.
Why don't we go back and we talkabout how you guys met, where
you met?
Sure.
(05:34):
I guess Michelle's looking at meto get started.
So I guess I'll get started.
I first met Michelle when shewas in high school.
She didn't know it yet though.
I was, yeah, she didn't.
I was sitting on the couch, mycurrent girlfriend's house in
the town that she grew up in.
Actually, Michelle your townWest Unity, Ohio.
How many people live there?
Oh, I don't know.
(05:55):
A couple of thousand.
Yeah, 2000.
She was, and I'm not from there.
We went to school up in Adriancollege in Michigan.
I managed to date two girls fromthis small town and it was my
sophomore year, junior year,sophomore year, no junior
college where I turned thisvideo on, my girlfriend at the
(06:16):
time, her brother.
A year younger than me.
Or prom.
Yeah.
I saw Michelle on this video andI remember asking my girlfriend
at the time, who is that?
And that's when I first sawMichelle and we didn't actually
meet until I was a senior incollege.
I was a freshman.
You were an incoming freshmenand I had to get into law
(06:38):
school.
So my advisor at the time toldme I needed amping up my credits
for all my extracurricularstuff.
Padding your resume?
Because partying wasn't a partof my extracurriculars, that law
schools like to recognize andthis is is pre-Jesus days.
Yeah.
So in order to get into lawschool, I had to become like a
(06:59):
senior advisor and teach.
Literally, I taught welcome tocollege one-on-one for all of
the freshman.
And I met Michelle at thatincoming orientation.
Remember that?
Yep.
These were her pre-Jesus daystoo.
These were my pre-Jesus days.
Yes.
So I see her, I'm like, Hey, shetalked to me and she was looking
(07:20):
around at everybody, but me I'mlike, I actually wanted to tell
her, I was like, you don'trealize I'm cool.
I'm a big deal.
Because there's only a 1000 ofus, a 1,000 of your best
friends.
I remember in DC with a workthing.
Only my college professors,history professor her daughter
worked in DC.
And I remember looking at mytwin brother, identical twin,
(07:43):
and she looked at me.
Kinda stared at me and said, mydad tells me you were quite a
presence.
So that's a nice way of sayingit.
I wanted to tell Michelle,listen, you don't know me but
you will.
And you'll want to.
That was it.
Well in full disclosure on that,I was probably, a little sleepy
(08:06):
and slightly hung over because Ihad graduated from high school
the day before and went out toall the graduation parties and
had to roll out of bed andhustled up to school so that my
friend and I at the time werenot late for this orientation.
(08:27):
So that's where we met.
That was my senior year, yourfreshman year.
Yep.
We got to know each other prettywell, but it was just friends.
Yeah.
And then she got a littlejealous when I was talking to
other girls.
I know that.
Sure.
Yeah.
So anyway, a few years went byand then I came back to college
(08:49):
for Homecoming.
Yes.
We just hung out.
Like now this was my senioryear.
You're my third year of lawschool.
And at the time it was going tolaw school in DC.
So I came out from DC toMichigan, Adrian college and we
hung out like, we'reinseparable, basically was 12
hours, two days we were there.
(09:10):
And then we just kept talkingafter that.
Yeah.
He asked me.
He could call me.
Did I?
Yeah.
So I gave you your number didsaid you have to go back to DC,
which I thought would impressher.
I've got to go back toWashington.
That be she's terribly impressedby that.
And she did give me her number.
You did give me your number.
(09:30):
I did.
I did.
I think you called me that nightwhen you got home, just to let
you know I was safe.
Yeah.
Then we just kept talking untila then you moved down to DC that
spring.
I did.
Yeah.
After I graduated from Adrianand you graduated law school, I
(09:51):
think we graduated maybe a weekor so apart and yeah, I decided
going to pack up all my stuffand move down and he helped me
find an apartment.
In Virginia.
Yeah.
I lived in Maryland.
(10:14):
So then I was like since youmoved down then, I guess we
should probably talk aboutgetting married, which I was
totally pushing.
And this is where things get alittle dicey.
Wait a minute.
Okay.
How long did you date before shemoved to?
Virginia?
Yeah, was it the 12 hours you'retogether.
You gave her the phone numberand then you graduated.
(10:36):
So let's see homecoming wouldhave been sometime in October
and we talked long distance, Iguess we should say also that
our breaks our Christmas breaks,coincided with each other.
So for a couple of weeks, wewere both back in Ohio.
Okay.
So we were able to hang out witheach other and actually go on
(10:58):
dates and stuff.
And then.
I, we would have moved down.
I think I graduated the end ofApril.
He graduated in May, so I wouldhave moved down in May.
Okay.
That makes more sense now.
Yeah, it's October.
Yeah.
At this point we're talking2002.
(11:20):
I guess we just hung out for along time.
I know I kept talking to herabout a long time.
And when we got married, like ayear later, he proposed maybe
six weeks after I moved down.
Wow.
Yeah.
I think I moved down in likemay, beginning of may.
And then we got married almost ayear to the day that you
(11:42):
proposed, which says the answeris just the end of June.
Yeah.
So we got engaged.
I was 22.
Yeah.
We were babies.
We were definitely, I marriedthe right woman.
It was just the wrong time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We had no idea what you'redoing.
That's when pretty mucheverything went south.
(12:03):
Our first few years of marriagewere not great.
Our year of engagement was notgreat.
Cause we're just all trying tofigure it out, starting a career
in Washington.
For both of us it's just not agood thing to do all the while
we were just getting to knowpeople.
Yeah.
For Washington, when you'reyoung, you graduate college, you
(12:23):
think you're going into adultlife, but if you're living
around Capitol Hill it was justlike college all over.
We were going out all the time.
That's how it was all the time,again this is pre-Jesus for us.
It was just constantly going outwith everything else.
It was just really quiteunpleasant.
Yeah.
We loved each other.
Yeah, a lot of it too is in ustrying to figure that out.
(12:46):
And Pete and I, not being insimilar industries for work
either.
So that was different.
And so me finding friends andhim finding friends, we weren't
really finding friends thatintersected and then.
It was like we were married andwe lived together, but we were
still pursuing our owninterests.
(13:08):
Separate lives.
Yeah.
Even though I would go out withhim and with his friends it
just, there wasn't thatcohesiveness, at least that I
feel like we have now we werestill living selfish, separate
ish lives and trying to figureout how to do that side by side
instead of doing it together.
Exactly.
(13:29):
Yeah.
You guys weren't one yet?
No, not even close.
And then we were hanging outwith a bunch of single people
too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We were not two peas in a pod,at all.
But then that was literally thefirst week.
Yeah, for some, again, somestupid reason we decided that
let's have a child.
(13:49):
We didn't even get along.
Divorce was never discussed.,but that's the one thing,
neither one of us, neither oneof our parents were divorced.
Right.
If I can be very deep.
I remember getting this is Iguess, I am looking at Michelle,
she knows this story anyway.
So I was at a distance.
(14:10):
It's a little racy, but Iremember so when Michelle was
she was I don't, how do I saythis politely, the older we get
our bodies change.
And Michelle has had threebabies, three babies.
So before Michelle got married,she was, she played volleyball
in college.
And her, she was, how do I sayit?
Yeah.
Is that okay?
What did you say?
Yeah.
She had good boobs.
Oh, I, is that okay to stay on aChristian podcast?
(14:34):
I don't know.
I don't know how to say it.
I guess.
She was very attractive.
She was a brick house.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We got married.
Your body changes.
That's how deep I was as a humanbeing.
It's like standing at the altar,watching me walk down.
If her body changes?
(14:54):
That's literally what I thought.
I think I remember thinkinglike, would I love you if you
didn't have hair?
Yeah.
So that was, crazy.
That's so funny, then you haveyour first child.
And we find out we're pregnant.
And I remember oh man, I have toget my act together.
Let's see if she was thinking,the same thing.
And we started going to church.
(15:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I would say it's not that wedidn't try to go to church
before we had kids, like duringour marriage.
For just a little bit ofbackground, I grew up Methodist
and Pete grew upnon-denominational I would say
more charismatic.
So I think even the styles ofchurch and religion that we were
(15:39):
used to were very different fromone another.
When we would try and find achurch, I would try and find
something that was a little bitmore conservative, which he
didn't love.
And, we would go to differentchurches and it just felt a
little empty for both of us.
Like we just never really foundanything that felt like it fit.
(16:00):
And then yeah, we just stoppedreally pursuing that, I think
until we had Isaac.
Yeah.
The more I started pursuing God,the more I started pursuing
Jesus.
What the Holy Spirit had for us.
The closer our relationship got.
Yeah.
And that's really that's.
(16:23):
Listen, we were just, we justopened up talking about KLM is a
family, right?
The church is the Bride ofChrist.
The more you pursue theBridegroom the more, you become
like the Bride.
The more you pursue Jesus, themore you actually realize that
you are literally a part of hisbody, it's physical body on
(16:48):
earth.
So the more you love to pursueJesus and recognize his love for
you, the more you love yourself.
Yeah.
Bottom line is we didn't knowhow to love each other because
we didn't love ourselves.
Yeah.
We didn't respect ourselves.
Yeah.
We didn't realize the damagewe're doing to our own spirits
when you're pursuing.
Obviously then Isaac's born,we'd go through this bit of
(17:11):
repentance.
Listen, I've got to honor thiskid and I've got to show him
what it's like to be a dad firstand foremost.
How you treat your wife firstand foremost, right?
The raciness of describingMichelle's body when it wasn't
on accident and we don't hearpeople in the ministry, talk to
(17:31):
that way that often.
But that's how stupid I wascompared to now, when I see
this, woman, of God, she'sChrist's daughter.
She's literally the sister ofJesus Christ.
The daughter God and if I don'thonor her, I am not honoring
(17:52):
him.
So that's what we ended uphaving a to figure out.
Yeah, it's amazing.
So in 2015, we're going tochurch by every definition.
Being a good church family, wedid it right.
We went to church on Sunday.
In 2015, we had three kids,three boys, and I, we were even
(18:14):
tithing.
Come on.
Like how much of the churchtithes, right?
Yeah.
We were tithing and we dideverything except for our hearts
weren't after God as much asthey should have been.
So then I started getting thishunger saying, all right
everything works good.
I have a beautiful wife, thefamily.
But then I started getting thishunger.
(18:35):
Why in the world was I born?
What is the whole purpose of it?
I hear pastors say, listen toGod, do what he tells you to do.
Everything will fall into place,but nobody ever teaches you how
to hear from God.
I wanted to hear, everybodywants to hear.
Yeah.
Nobody ever teaches you how todo it.
(18:55):
So I just got this hunger insideand I just, I started fasting
and I remember.
Telling her, I wasn't going toeat.
And I was like, you think I'mcrazy don't I?
She's yeah, yes I did.
Yes.
I'm more of an observer.
I think Pete's more of a jump inwith two feet when he's got
(19:16):
something that's pulling on him,something that he's going after.
And I want to sit back and waitand watch and see.
So I definitely did that.
This journey that he started, Ijust sat back and watched how
this was all going to play out.
What is this, what is he doing?
What, where is he going?
How is this, what does this looklike?
(19:37):
Is because again, just coming, Ithink from a more traditional
back ground I didn't, believe inpraying in tongues.
I didn't believe in even justraising your hands and worship.
Praying over people, differentthings like that.
So for him to be having thesedesires to fast or to go after
these things, these spiritualthings, it was really new to me.
(19:59):
And so I just I trusted him.
I loved him.
So I knew that he wasn't goingto do anything crazy, but I
didn't really know what it was.
So I took a backseat to him andjust watched.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He definitely led.
We go to Church on Sunday, alady named Sally, she comes up
(20:20):
to me.
She says, are you in theministry?
I said no, but I'll do anythingthe Lord asks me.
Sally prophesied and said, I seeyou in a, just like HG
prophesied over you at KingdomQuake, prophesies, and says, I
see you in a conference roomteaching your peers during bible
study.
And I said to her a well, I'mnot doing that, but I'll do
anything the Lord asks, a fewmonths later, that's exactly
(20:43):
what we were doing.
Now, that was about seven monthsafter I got that prophecy.
And I started, I got a propheticword and I started believing for
that prophetic word.
Never taught the Bible toanybody.
I was reading it like a rabid,crazy.
Just because I wanted to hearGod's voice and I was really
(21:05):
just looking at feeling for God.
That's what the Bible says.
And I feel for him.
So what I would do is basically,I was like, I was running the
race right.
There was a having prize that Iwas being called to and I was
just running as fast as I could,all right, God, I'm going to do
anything you want.
And a part of that was being agood husband, right?
Any man who wants to live forGod has to have that hunger
(21:29):
first.
So you can't convince.
And there's a lot of people thatI've talked to him all the time.
They'll say I'm a believer.
My wife is not.
Or the wife will say, I'm abeliever but my husband is not
you're not going to convincepeople like that Jesus is King.
Unless you can show them first,we're called to demonstrate
(21:50):
power of the Kingdom of God, notjust try to convince people the
power of the Kingdom.
So that's why everything I did.
I didn't necessarily explain itto Michelle because I didn't
know, but I wanted to show herthat I was changed.
Because I used to come home andI played video games as a
married man.
(22:11):
But instead, what I try to do isat least invest some time into
her.
Now, I don't play video gamesanymore, it's not exciting.
It's rather be with her.
And there's that transformationthat happens along the way.
And that's what she started tosee.
So I didn't pick at her so much.
I tried not to too at least.
(22:32):
Still not perfect.
But it was just that once youget touched by the finger of God
in your life, and this is thedifference between religion and
everything else, it shows up inyour home.
And for me, it was out ofeverything else.
When I die, I wanted to be saidI was a good husband and a great
dad, everything after that, itwas only but for God.
(22:58):
And that's what I tried to showher and still do every single
day.
And then God just goes waybeyond that to touch other
people.
But it starts when you wake upin the morning, you seek God.
I am looking at her to see ifthere is anything she would like
to add?
She likes to be nice to me andI'm nice to her.
(23:21):
So there that's pretty much ourstory so far I get touched by
everything I do is to pleasehim.
And we look back on things.
I lied to her in the firstcouple of years of our marriage.
You know what I do I tell her,hey, listen, I lied to you about
this years ago.
And it doesn't mean anything toher so much, but it does to me.
(23:45):
That's just a constant, you liveto be fully transparent and
fully naked before your spousebecause God, sees everything.
So that's kinda how we live lifetogether.
Just trying to live as honestlyas we can.
And knowing that everything thatwe did.
(24:06):
So when I got touched by God in2015, One of the things that I
did was I got baptized.
I got baptized when I was 12,but then I went and got baptized
when I was 38 years old.
And some people would say whichis true.
You do only need to be baptizedonce.
But I can tell you, I didn'tknow what I was doing when I was
(24:30):
12 as much as I did when I was38.
So what happened?
Pete Norman, the old man wasdead and buried.
And then I rose up in thatbaptism, a completely new man,
right?
The old man is dead and buriedis in the pit of hell with the
devil, and everything I didbefore the devil has to deal
(24:52):
with it, that's why he hates itso much.
So he tries to remind us of allthe things we did.
And you too got babtized in theJordan river, right?
I did.
So I got dedicated and sprinkledas a baby actually I might have
as well went throughconfirmation classes when I was
(25:13):
12 or 13.
I'd have to, this is my memory,trying to remember if we did
that.
I'm sure it was probably part ofour confirmation.
At the end was that we, just alittle dip of the water on the
head and that was it.
So once, I saw him going throughthis transformation.
It just grew the hunger insideof me of wanting to know the
(25:34):
Lord more and wanting to know,is this stuff real?
Is there more than what I know?
Is there more than what I wastaught and just going on that
journey myself to knowing God.
And they had a trip to Israeland our old church and so Pete
(25:55):
and I were both excited, wantingto go, but knowing that we've
got young children at home, wecertainly couldn't leave for 10,
12 days, the two of us and leaveour boys at home.
We talked and we asked Pete'sparents if they would watch the
kids and we asked Pete's mom, ifshe wanted to go, he was pretty
adamant that he felt like Ishould go on this trip and he
(26:19):
would stay home.
So his mom and I went to Israeltogether and his dad stayed home
with him and they took care ofthe kids, getting them to school
and all the things.
And I realized that for me, whenI would read things in the Bible
and I would see them, if itwasn't true in my life, if it
wasn't part of my life, then Iwanted to take that step to do
(26:42):
that.
Water baptism is immersionbaptism was something that you
read that was something thatJesus did.
And John even says you don'tneed to do this.
And he was like, no, but I do.
I'm obeying my father.
He was showing us the way.
And so when I read that, Iremember that just really
(27:02):
speaking to me that.
I hadn't done that.
And if Jesus did it and Jesusthought that it was important to
do it, then I needed to do thattoo.
Our old church, I think they didbaptisms monthly.
And I think when I had thisrevelation that I needed to have
this done they weren't going tobe having a baptism again for
maybe another month, but sayingthat we would be going to the
(27:24):
Jordan river and we could do itthere.
So I got water baptized in theJordan river.
For the first time.
Oh, wow.
That's really cool.
That is pretty amazing.
So think about that.
So everything that she didbefore that.
So think about this for the, forme, I didn't say, Hey, Michelle,
believe in Jesus.
(27:44):
If you're going to go to hell.
No, no it's about the Kingdomcome will be done on earth as it
is in Heaven.
It was on me to change theenvironment in my home to make
that home feel like Heaven is onearth she then gets touched the
seed of the Kingdom was plantedin me, multiplied through her
and will be for generationsthrough our family.
And she decides to get baptizedin the Jordan river, even though
(28:08):
I would've liked to have gone onthat trip.
I felt like the Lord told her togo.
So then she gets baptized.
Now, as I told you, the firstcouple of years of our marriage,
we're really bad.
They were divorce worthy inevery respect, but she gets
baptized in the Jordan river.
(28:29):
Now, when we look back on it,can I blame her today for
anything in the past?
No, no, no.
That's old Michelle was buriedin the Jordan river.
New Michelle here who's put onChrist.
Who was also dedicated to bringthe Kingdom of God to earth, as
it is in Heaven.
Can I really blame her foranything she did before that?
No, I can't.
That's old Michelle only satandoes that.
(28:51):
So I'm not going to partner withthe kingdom of darkness to put
condemnation on anything fromthe past, but Philippians 3 says
I don't mean to say that I'vealready achieved these things or
reached perfection, but I presson.
To possess the perfection forwhich Christ Jesus, first
possessd for me.
(29:12):
And then he says, I've notachieved it by focus on this one
thing forgetting the past andlooking forward to what lies
ahead.
I press on to reach the end ofthe race and receive the
heavenly prize, for which Godthrough Christ Jesus, is calling
us.
The Heavenly prize that God'scalling us to do is fulfilled in
(29:33):
marriage.
Family, everything that emanatesoutside of the house.
And yeah, if you're going tohave a strong marriage, it's
forgetting the past and lookingforward.
Because what happened to Lot'swife.
She looked back, she turned intoa pillar of salt.
Why, because she's frozen intime.
(29:54):
You looked at the past you'll befrozen in that spot.
The enemy can attack, not justyou, your marriage and then your
children's and then theirchildren's we're fighting
battles.
Now that our children will nothave to fight because we've won
successful.
And that's why to me HeavenlyHookup, it's just that you're
(30:17):
hooking arms to do battle forfuture generations that God's
trusted you for.
It's way more intense than wegive credit for, marriage.
That's why God said it's apicture of Christ and the church
whenever he puts it together,let no man tear apart.
(30:37):
Why is that?
It's a picture of Christ in thechurch and it's not church on
Sundays and churches is the bodyof Christ called to do battle
we're soldiers of the Kingdom ofGod.
And how we do battles first andforemost is what?
Love God, love your neighbor.
Jesus said, if you love me,you'll obey my commands.
And guess what?
That command runs right throughyour marriage.
(31:00):
Husband's love your wives, loveyour husband.
Yeah.
And I think you can see that.
Your relationship with God isreflected in your relationship
with other people.
And I think our marriage hasbeen such a picture of that,
that before we had really givenour lives to the Lord and made
(31:22):
him put him as king of ourlives, you could see that we
didn't have a relationship withthe Lord because we didn't have
a good relationship with oneanother.
And the closer as Pete said, wedraw to the Lord individually.
That transformation starts tohappen and just organically
through the kingdom, we start tochange towards one another and
(31:46):
we can, forgive one another morequickly, repent before one
another, bring these things toeach other.
We can let go of the past.
We can, do all of these thingshave, we don't even really
fight.
I would say any more.
I think we have discussions, butthere's a, there's just such a
respect for one another that I,I can't think of something that
(32:09):
I would say, oh, that's the hillI'm going to die on with him.
There's compromise.
There's deference towards oneanother.
There's just learning.
I don't have to have my way.
That's not what's important,being a peacemaker and keeping
peace.
And for me, what's important tohim.
And being able to lay down whatI think is important to put his,
(32:32):
what his feelings above my own.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And my last thought is just onthis, he truly put God first.
And like I said, the early yearswe could have gotten divorced
and everybody would have said,yeah you should.
But there's a thing of fightingthrough it.
And once you, both of you haveto be committed to fighting
(32:53):
through it.
Yeah, but fighting through it,not for the sake of fighting,
because we could not have fixedour problem period, but it took
us going after God to look backand be like, wow.
It's amazing how I get baptized.
Like at a conference, just likeyou went to a Kingdom Quake.
I too went to a conference in myhome church and I was like, I
(33:16):
need to get baptized and I didit on the spot and then she gets
baptized in Jordan river, weweren't even together.
And it happened.
That's amazing how the new Peteand the new Michelle rose up
together to love Christ toactually really, truly be bonded
marital partners we wereintended to be, so that would be
my advice, to people.
(33:38):
That's the Kingdom of God.
Peter, when he stood up to andact on the day of Pentecost, he
stepped forward and thenpreached the kingdom and 3000
people were added to the church.
You first step, there's aprophetic act in everything you
do.
You don't believe that you needto get baptized, go and do it
again.
I wouldn't say you can't right.
(33:59):
You know what?
I would do it every single dayto show my wife I am better.
Oh, that's so good.
You're telling me a lot ofthings I haven't heard before.
So that was a treat.
Yeah.
The whole thing about thebaptism.
I never thought of it that way,where once you've been, or even
once you've given your life toChrist that the enemy keeps
(34:19):
trying to bring back your past,but it's already gone.
It's dead and buried.
You rise out of the water, whenyou give your life, the Bible
says you're a new creation inChrist, behold, all things are
made new.
So when you're a new creation inChrist in the Greek new Crete
creature coded one that neverexisted.
So when Camille surrenders toJesus Christ that new creation,
(34:44):
there's never been another humanbeing in the history of mankind
ever.
Been created, like Camille neverwill be created.
Never ever to be seen everagain.
There's only one of you.
And then all things are new,which means, yes, there are
consequences of your actions,but guess what?
(35:04):
All things worked out for good,for those who love him.
Right?
Love, your defined as Jesussays, you love me you will obey
my commands.
So if you live in obedience andsurrender to him, all of your
circumstances will work out.
For your good because God useseverything.
(35:24):
The key there being totallysurrendered.
I hear people all the time sayno, it's God's will this, no,
no, no if you surrender to himand then his will be all things
are good for you.
And that's we just have to livesurrendered lives.
As long as we're surrendered tohim, everything's going to go
not great.
(35:45):
Your circumstances.
Aren't gonna be great.
Know what, he's in charge of,not just current circumstances,
dealing with your pastcircumstances as he leads you
into the future.
That's what marriage is.
I can't blame Michelle, foranything that she did in her
20's.
I just can't.
She did our first couple ofyears of marriage, because quite
(36:08):
frankly, that's exactly whatsatan does, if you look at, I am
not going to partner with thedevil to condemn Michelle.
Yeah, we have to see eachother's that new creation that,
not bringing up, you always dothis or you never do this these
statements, that we have to giveeach other grace and realizing
(36:30):
that we are being transformed.
So sometimes we may behave in anold manner or an old pattern
that we need to lay down and weneed to just surrender to the
Lord.
Giving each other grace, to knowthat we are dedicated to the
Lord.
We're dedicated to one another.
And knowing that if I mess up,Pete's not going to accuse me.
(36:52):
That's huge just having thattrust with your spouse, that you
can come to them and be able tosay, and with a heart of
repentance and know that you'regoing to be received in a good
way.
Like that you become to the Lordand repent before the Lord.
And he is always quick toforgive and to be able to have
(37:14):
that then with your spouse aswell is really huge.
Yeah.
And I think for me with baptismone of the things that really
helped me silence that voice ofthe enemy was that when Jesus
died on the cross and he diedfor our sins.
And he died for that.
When you give your life to himand you're baptized, like I
(37:36):
don't have that old Michelle isgone.
So I don't have the right tograb onto that.
I don't have the right to lookback at all my past mistakes
anymore because Jesus boughtthat life.
He paid for that life, with hisblood.
And so I've got to be able tojust let that go.
I've got to be able to bring itand all that does when Satan
(37:58):
tries to bring that stuff up ismaybe that's a place you need to
go, and pray before the Lord andrepent for that past thing and
bring that up to the Lordbecause when you bring it to the
light, it loses its power andsatan can't come and accuse you
anymore.
And you can say.
No that's done.
That's old.
(38:18):
Michelle.
You don't get to talk to meabout that anymore.
I'm a new creation and live inthat place.
Wow.
That's so good.
You guys ministered to me justright now.
It's amazing.
As we wrap it up here, is thereanything that you would like to
add for people who are marriedor for singles who are looking
(38:38):
to get married?
Yeah, for one is chase afterGod.
Can't unless you learn the loveof the Father, you go through a
partnership with the HolySpirit.
You won't be able to loveyourself until you love
yourself, you won't be ready tolove others.
(38:59):
That's where I would say toanybody that is single.
Talk to him like he was yourdad.
I told him, dad, listen, I wantto get married, or, I want to
love my spouse, I would say, I'dask until you bring that person
(39:22):
to me, fill that void, watchwhat he does.
I think one of the scariestthings that people who go to
hell.
Hell was not made for people.
Hell was made for the devil andfallen angels and people go
there because they have achoice.
Why, we are made to worship andyou will follow whatever you
(39:45):
worship, if you worship JesusChrist as your Lord, Heaven's
your place.
If you worship money as yourLord, Hell is where you're going
to go, and you're going to bebound by that money for
eternity.
So that's an example.
So I would say, he's not a farout being like this, he is so
intimate and hell is that placewhere people for eternity
(40:07):
realize, how close he is.
Think about this in Genesis one,he said, light be Jesus Christ
is the light of the world.
We make things so difficultCamille.
Light is of God.
Hell is darkness.
The bottomless pit of darkness.
(40:29):
What does that tell you?
Light is of God.
You're surrounded by light.
Paul says in him, we live andmove and have our being that's
light.
Yeah.
Light is God and I don't he'sthat close.
So let's not find out.
Let's not wait to desire theintimacy for Heaven.
(40:51):
When you could have him now, askhim for that intimacy, that you
so desire of a spouse.
A future spouse or a currentspouse, ask him to fill that
intimacy with me now.
So you can probably get thething that about Michelle and
me.
It's not that we met eachother's needs, then our needs
are met first in Christ.
(41:11):
And then out of that intimacy,we have with them out of that
intimacy with the light of theLord, we then turned to each
other.
So first for future spousesprepare.
Be prepared with the intimacy ofthe light of this world.
Be prepared.
With the intimacy of the holyspirit now?
Because guess what?
(41:32):
God wants to touch every singleperson on this planet and be
prepared now because that nextperson who could cross your path
could be the one that you'redestined to marry.
Don't miss it by not beingfilled with the intimacy of the
Lord.
That's all.
That's what, I would say.
So you're saying, if you're notprepared in the Holy Spirit and
(41:55):
the other let's say you're notprepared and the other person is
prepared and God may not bringyou two together because you're
not where you're supposed to be.
Is that what you're saying?
Or no, it's a, God's all.
Yeah.
That or God's telling you, andyou're not hearing it, God's
telling you who the person is,but you're just not hearing.
Huh?
That's the thing.
Michelle and I were goingthrough, like I said, we're
(42:17):
going to a really hard thosefirst couple of years, I could
have said, enough I'm done.
Clearly as much as you know uswe're meant to be together.
Yeah.
We just have to fight throughit.
So be prepared by havingintimacy with the Lord.
And at that moment, he will tellyou.
(42:38):
Does that make sense?
Yup.
Yep.
Yeah.
I think Pete's touching on kindof what I was thinking too, is
just, like meeting someone isnever gonna be your fulfillment.
Like you're not going to befulfilled in your spouse.
There's you know, so to look forthat, but I think that.
(43:00):
It's good to have.
If you have the desire to getmarried, that's fantastic.
The Lord is probably giving youthat desire and, just being
close to him, you've got to beable to have value for yourself.
Honor yourself.
Love yourself.
As Pete said to be able to cometogether then as a couple in
marriage and as we've talkedabout, right?
(43:22):
It's that individual journeythat then culminates into a good
marriage and you're always, evenafter 18 years of marriage,
we're still working on ourselvesand it just flows from that
place into our marriage andtowards one another.
So you're not looking forsomebody to just fulfill you if
(43:45):
you're already married.
Don't look to your spouse tochange.
If there's issues in yourmarriage, you've got to always
be introspective.
You've always got to be lookingat yourself.
First and foremost, and havingrelationship with the Lord and
being intimate with him is huge.
And it's, that's just going tostrengthen your marriage if you
(44:06):
have, if you're married and ifyou're not.
I fully believe that, Jesus saysthat we are the light as he is
the light.
And as you are filled with theLord that light's going to draw
people to you.
And it's going to, if you'refollowing the Lord, he's gonna
put you in the places that youneed to be in.
He's going to introduce you tothe people that you need to meet
and just trusting in him andtrusting in his timing I think
(44:29):
is where you need to be.
Because as Pete and I have saidthere's.
We can look back and see whereour, how many times our paths
could have crossed and even incollege knowing one another, but
never being drawn to one anotherand in a romantic way until it
was the right time.
And even with the issues withinour marriage that we had there
(44:52):
was never.
A time of like really, gettingdivorced.
It just wasn't something thatwas on either of our hearts.
And so just knowing that, thatwhole time through the struggles
and through everything that likethe Spirit was there, like we
were still being lived by theSpirit, even if we didn't know
we were.
And just trusting in that.
(45:14):
Yeah.
It's hard earned, man.
This is a hard earned it's ahard earned hour.
We just spent with you.
It took 18 years to get to thispoint of comfort and it's not
perfect.
That's a good point.
We don't want people to leavewith like, oh, wow everything is
perfect.
Okay, marriage is hard work.
Yeah, and it took 18 years toget there.
(45:36):
So that is a good point.
All right.
Thank you guys so much.
I love you.
And I appreciate you spendingthe time with me today, and I
think people are gonna really beblessed by your message.
Thank you for tuning in totoday's episode and thank you to
my guests, Pete and MichelleNorman for sharing their fun and
(45:59):
transformational love story, youcan contact them@klmdc.org.
For more episodes of a HeavenlyHookups please follow us on
Instagram at Heavenlyhookup_S.
I'm Camille Battaglia we'll seeyou next time on Heavenly
Hookups.
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