Behind the Bars: Life as a Female Correctional Officer

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hector Bravo.
Unhinged Chaos is now insession.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome back Warriors .
Another banger for you guys.
Today I have a femalecorrectional former correctional
deputy from San Luis ObispoCounty, slo, by the name of
Kelly Kelly.
What up?

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Hey, how's it going.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Pretty good.
Thank you for flying all theway out here to San Diego.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Absolutely Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Thanks, how was your trip Good?

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah, easy.
Easy A little delay, a littlecouple hour delay this morning,
but you know, made it.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Cool.
No, I'm really glad you're here.
So where did you grow up at?

Speaker 3 (00:41):
So I grew up in San Jose, California.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Definitely not San Luis, definitely not slow.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
No, it's not.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
I was born and raised in San Jose, California and
moved to San Luis Obispo in myearly twenties.
Did you ever go to ParamountGreat America?
Yes, I did.
Yeah, I went there one time asa kid.
Is it still open?

Speaker 3 (01:00):
I believe yeah, yeah, cause I went there not that
long ago Like.
I mean within, like the last 10years, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
You should take my daughter.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, it's my favorite.
It's one of my favorite places.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
When you went down to SLO, were you going to college
or what was the purpose of goingdown there?

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Actually funny is I moved with a boyfriend who got
hired at CMC.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
He was a CO.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Was he your boyfriend before or after he was a CO.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Like during when he was getting-.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
During the process.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, when he was getting hired, yeah, Was he from
SLO as well?
Or he just ended up there.
No, he just ended up there.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Okay, and you guys moved in with each other.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
That's always interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yes, but I wasn't working at the jail at that time
yet, so it wasn't until laterthat I got hired.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
But earlier you were telling me your father was in
law enforcement.
Who else was in your family?

Speaker 3 (01:51):
My stepmom was also.
My father was a patrol deputyfor Santa Clara County and my
stepmom worked for theDepartment of Corrections, which
used to run the jails for SantaClara County a long time ago.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
She worked for the California Department of
Corrections.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
No, it was DOC, it was Department of Corrections,
for I think that's what theycalled it.
It was like a separate entityLike Santa Clara County used to
run their own you know their ownpeople ran the jail.
Then later on, I think, theycontracted out.
It wasn't private, but theyyeah.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
That's all Northern California to me.
Yes.
At what point in time did yourealize that you would
eventually join law enforcementyourself?

Speaker 3 (02:30):
I wanted to be in law enforcement.
Probably in my late teenageyears.
I was a bit of a wild child,weren't we all.
So I mean I could have veryeasily ended up on the other
side.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Let's put it that way .

Speaker 3 (02:45):
And I think sometimes we make the best people in law
enforcement.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
So, but I always wanted to be in law enforcement.
I actually wanted to be astreet officer, but back then
when I originally was applying,it was very competitive, like
extremely competitive.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
Huge turnouts of people.
I mean I tested all overNorthern California several
different agencies and I mean itwas very competitive.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
How far were you getting into those processes
like your interviews, yourbackground investigations?

Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, it just depended.
I mean, I always passed thewritten, always passed the
physical.
Just sometimes the interviewsand stuff didn't go too well.
I didn't know how to play thegame, you know because I was
young.
You know, I get it.
And so I didn't know how toplay the game Once I started,
you know failing.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
I wouldn't call it failing yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
But, I hear what you're saying I learned how to
play the game.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Pretty much how to tell them what they want to hear
.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Right.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Exactly A hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Funny story Because I interviewed for Parole Agent
like three times I said yeah,I'm going to be out there
catching bad guys, tacklingmotherfuckers.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
They're like we don't want you, we don't need you and
you can see by who they hire.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
So was.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Slow County, the first one that you got all the
way through it, the process, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
And what year was that?
1998 1998, different time.
Back then it was very differenttime probably britney spears
and sink backstreet boys.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
I don't don't know about Bernie.
That was a freshman in highschool.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Thanks, so did you go to an academy?

Speaker 3 (04:33):
So it's very interesting the way that they do
it there.
They don't send you to theacademy right away, and they
have.
I have done an in-house academy, they did in-house academy.
It's not like CDCR.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
I like the emphasis on the R.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
It's not like where you go and I can't remember your
guys' academy is pretty long.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
It was in Gall, yeah, yeah, it's Gall, usually Six
weeks, 13 weeks or 16 weeks.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah, I think it's like four months.
So ours is like I think it'slike four months.
So ours is like I think it'sabout I want to say six weeks
maybe but in-house it's in-house, but they don't put you in it
right away unless they have anacademy set up so you could be
on the job.
I think they have to.
They have to put you throughthe academy within a year don't
quote me on that, but I thinkit's a.
It's either six months or ayear, yeah, so you could be on

(05:25):
the job for almost a year beforeyou ever even go to the academy
.
So you're getting trained byyour senior correctional
deputies.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
At what point in time , or during this point in time,
what kind of use of forceoptions do you have?

Speaker 3 (05:41):
When I first started, all we had was handcuffs,
handcuffs, handcuffs.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
A radio.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Oh, yeah, well, yeah, yeah, radio handcuffs.
Yeah, we didn't have.
Basically only if you're doingtransportation.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Pepper spray, handcuffs.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
I don't remember pepper spray back then Handcuffs
and 50 cuffs.
Yeah, and just and just.
You know you're verbal right,you know that was, that was how
you de-escalated.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
I mean, you know you, you got skilled at, you know,
learning how to talk to peopleso I asked that question because
usually the whole point of anacademy so they can train you on
those use of force options,chemical agents, batons yeah, we
did a lot of weaponless umdefense, uh training back then
was it practical or were theymore like karate going through

(06:29):
the motion?

Speaker 3 (06:29):
no, no, it was no, it was practical yeah, it was
practical.
You know your arm bars, allyour you know, all your typical
uh, typical stuff, um and then,um, let's see, yeah, we that's.
Yeah, that's basically all wehad until until later on and I
noticed you're not that tall.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
How'd you notice?
So was it?
Uh, was it intimidating?

Speaker 3 (06:52):
no, you know, I I was never intimidated, I think
because I grew up in san jose.
Yeah, um, you know, it's a, Imean it's a, it's a doggy dog
world absolutely and I and I rana lot on the east side of San
Jose and southeast side, whichis a little rougher yeah.
Yeah, and I grew up typically Imean mostly on the southeast

(07:13):
side of San Jose and I wasexposed to all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
I mean I've seen it all growing up in San Jose, Was
it predominantly Mexican,Hispanic or black?
No, it's a melting pot.
It was a melting pot.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
In San Jose, yeah, oh yeah.
It's like LA, so it's just amelting pot of every race, every
economic.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
But it had its rough side as well, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, like any major city.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Right.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
So yeah, but I mean I was exposed to all that and
then, with my dad being in, lawenforcement and my stepmom being
in law enforcement.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
I heard all the stories and you know I was a
little scrapper.
No, that's excellent.
It's good news.
It helps me ask these questions.
Did your dad in any way?

Speaker 3 (07:58):
shape or form, encourage you or discourage you
from joining law enforcement.
He didn't either way.
Neither way, I don't know.
You know to be honest with you,I don't know.
I think he was glad that Icould, that I, when I got, you
know, got a job that I was, heknew that I could take care of
myself.
Right you know, like he knew Iwas going to have.
You know, you know retirementand yeah, medical coverage and
all that stuff.
So I think he was happy aboutthat you know, at least for that

(08:21):
part.
I don't know how he really feltabout me being in there, but I
mean he used to say I wasfearless.
He'd be, like when you were akid you were fearless.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
That's huge, yeah, but scary for a parent.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Yeah, yeah, but being smaller in stature, you learn
to obviously command.
Presence is huge.
That's your number one thing, Imean.
You walk into a room or youknow, or walk into a dorm or a
housing unit.
You have to walk in there LikeI'm going to kick everybody's

(08:53):
ass, but I'm not, and they allknow I'm not, but you, you know
what I mean.
Like you walk in there with,with, authority you know what
I'm saying.
Like, I know that I'm not goingto walk into a housing unit of
30 men and kick anybody's ass.
I realized that.
But I'm also not going to putup with any shit either.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
So I like that you're saying all of this with that
being said, but you alsowouldn't, you also would be
willing to?
Oh, I'll get down Exactly, yeah, so can you please everything
you just said right now can youplease explain to the youngsters
, right, Because that's whatthis whole podcast is about to
drop the wisdom and knowledgethat has walked away from the

(09:28):
department.
You don't have to be thetallest person.
It's not about size, it's notabout maybe words.
Talk about that demeanor.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
Well, a lot of it's respect.
You go in there, you demandrespect, and it's a give and
take, right.
So I mean but you got to walkin there with authority that
you're not going to put up withanything.
So you cat call me, I'm goingto call you out on that.
Like you're not going to catcall me and you know, or you're
not going to be disrespectful tome and not get checked, you

(09:58):
know.
Now, that doesn't mean I'mgoing to get physical with you
if you're, you know, some 200pound, you know parolee.
That's not going to happen, butwe're going to talk about it you
know and we're going to, we'regoing to have a discussion about
it and so, yeah, it's just,it's just how you present
yourself and some people, somepeople are born with it and some
people, I think it can betaught.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
I think so too.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
I think it can be taught, but not everybody has
that, not everybody can betaught it.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Let's just put it that way, correct?
Yeah, no, you're hitting itright on the money.
Yeah, so yeah just Was there alot of females in that agency at
that time?

Speaker 3 (10:38):
My first time through .
Yes, we've had periods of timewhere we would have, you know,
plenty of females and thenthere'd be times where we
wouldn't have enough females.
So that would you know, becauseyou're working all different
housing units, you know, plusthe intake center, so you could
be assigned to a female, what wewould call female jail.
You could be assigned to, youknow, west housing or the main

(11:00):
jail where the men are housed.
So just depends.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Could you explain the layout?
Is it?
One location is where the wholeentire complex is and it's
divided into different buildings.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
So there was the original main jail.
That's the old jail.
So that's like the old stylewith the bars and the sliding.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Like in the country.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
western movies yes yes, that's the original jail.
And then built onto that, was afacility called West Housing,
which would probably be morelike it's.
West Housing was six pods with,like I think, 18, 18 cells in

(11:40):
each one.
In each one two-man cells.
Some of them were one-man cells.
They changed later on.
And then there was another dormthat would house I think like
30, maybe 30 to 50 on each side.
It was called West Dorm 7 and800.
Later on, towards the end of mycareer, we built a whole entire
new facility that was supposedto be for females only because

(12:02):
our female housing we got justexploded and we had no.
We were literally stepping overbodies at one point.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
The female housing exploded, meaning there was a
big influx in female inmates.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
What was up with that ?
Like what was going on in theworld.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
I just think the County growing and you know, and
just you know, more, more dopeon the streets and so Very on
the streets and so Veryinteresting.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
What about that in-processing unit that you
mentioned?

Speaker 3 (12:32):
What was that Like?
Are you taking people,receiving people off the streets
?
Yes, so when you get arrested,say you get arrested for DUI,
you get arrested for murder,you're going to get booked in.
So you're coming into theintake.
you know we're patting you down,we're taking all your property
we're processing you and thenput you in a holding cell, make
your phone calls.
Then we fingerprint you,photograph you and then figure
out.
You know, are you going to bailout, are you going to be site

(12:52):
released, are you going to bestaying with us?
And then, if you're going tostay, obviously we're going to
dress you out.
You know, do the old stripsearch and get you housed.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Fun fact, I've actually been arrested three
times and I've gone through thatwhole entire process.
So is there phones inside ofthose holding cells?

Speaker 3 (13:12):
Yes, just the regular holding cells there are.
We had there's also other cellsin there, you know, like just
holding cells that have none.
Like you know more of a like a,not a safety cell, but like
observations.
Yeah, I hear you more of a likea, um, not a safety cell but um
like observations.
I can't even remember the nameof it right now Kind of like an
isolation, yeah.
Isolation, it's like well, yeah, but they're not isolation,
they're just like drunk tanks,basically like a drunk tank.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
And it was.
There's the phone numbers ofbail bondsmen's.
Next to the phone.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
You guys did that too .

Speaker 2 (13:39):
I'm wondering who does that.
Is it like the local sheriffs?
Is it a I mean, is it a goodpractice?
Is that a practice throughoutmany jails?

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Why so people just get the hell out?

Speaker 3 (13:48):
Well, yeah, you got to give them access.
Otherwise they're going to beasking you, and then you're
going to be like back in the daywe'd brought out the phone book
, you know, but now it'd be likeGoogle you know, let me Google.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Is that a policy?

Speaker 3 (14:01):
Yeah, it's a policy yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Why Would that be a conflict of interest?
Yeah, a conflict of interest.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yeah, it's like say, you know?
Your cousins are freaking bailbondsmen, yeah, bail bondsmen
and you're like oh hey, go toAAA bonds, you know, or whatever
.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Right, very interesting.
What about that chair?
Did you guys have a chair?

Speaker 3 (14:29):
I've seen chairs that we did yes, and what would that
be used for?
We had a big controversialincident happen at the jail
where an inmate actually died inthat chair, at that jail.
Yes, yes, yeah, it was a big,huge deal.
So basically, like you knowsomebody that would be like
super combative, you know,basically, somebody that would
be super combative is prettymuch going to be your only
reason that I can think of.

(14:50):
Let's talk about it, let's gothere.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
So you said okay, I recently got off the phone not
too long ago with somebody andwe talked about inmates that die
in custody as a result of Imean, we've seen it Getting high
fighting the cops, you wrestlewith the dude and next thing you
know he has a heart attack andhe dies.
Now the cops are going underfederal charges.
From your experience you know,because, like, let's say,

(15:15):
civilians are watching and theythink fucking cops always want
to kill people.
Deputies are beating the shitout of guys In your take.
Does that happen?
Do people consume drugs wildout in jail?

Speaker 3 (15:28):
Oh yeah, 100%.
And people coming in, like whenthey're coming into county jail
, it's a lot different than whenthey're going to prison,
because generally they'recleaned up by the time.
You know they're going toprison Not always, but I mean we
are receiving people at theirworst.
I mean we're we are receivingpeople at their worst.
I mean when they are.
I mean sometimes they look likewalking death when they come in

(15:49):
um, you know cause they've beenout on the streets, they've
been using Um.
So we basically nurse them backto health and and you have to,
we, you know we would go throughthe process with them.
You know of them kicking heroinor, you know, detoxing from
alcohol, which is extremelydangerous.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
So you know you're seeing these people go through
the process.
It got to the point, like youknew certain people when they
came in, like I knew how thisperson kicks their dope.
Like, oh okay, that personkicks their dope, they're
totally cool, this person's outof their gourd, you know.
So it's like you get to knowyour inmates and how they kick
their dope.
But yeah, it's like you get toknow your inmates and how they
kick their dope.
But yeah, you're seeing them atthe worst.

(16:26):
They're not healthy.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
I mean they are very sick.
What do you think that does tothe human psychology?
Like, from your perspective,watching people at their worst.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
Oh, it takes a toll on you.
You see the worst of the worst,and I've always said this that
with drugs, you see what peoplewill do to themselves, to others
, to their family, to their kids, all in the name of drugs.
Absolutely I mean, and it'ssome horrible stuff.
You know, I've seen somehorrible stuff and heard some
horrible stories.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Absolutely no.
It's something that doesn't geta light shed on.
I mean, people rarely hearstories like this.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
Yeah, it's.
You know, if you've never, ifyou've never obviously been in a
jail or worked in a jail, youjust don't know.
I mean, you really don't.
You don't know what, whatpeople or what the you know the
staff is dealing with on a dailybasis.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
Correct.
I mean it's probably um you're.
You're dealing with probablythe worst that society has to
offer.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yes, and I'm not saying that everybody that comes
into jail is a bad person.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
No, we're talking about the overall experience of
some things that are seen orexperienced in there.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
Cause.
I'll tell you what I mean.
There's several um inmates thatwe had that you know.
I mean, like I said, we hadsame inmates generally come in
all the time.
You know it's the same.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Frequent flyers.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
It's the frequent flyers Same ones, you know, on
dope can't stand them.
They're the worst human beingever Cleaned up.
Man, they are some nice people.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
So you experienced that?

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, like I mean oh yeah, you see the total
transition, the total changelike from you know somebody who
comes in.
They're angry, they're pissedoff, they're kicking dope,
they're mother effing you up anddown, and then a couple weeks
later they're all cleaned up andtheir head's clear and they're
actually not bad.

(18:17):
People Like oh hey, welcome,that's addiction.
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
And addiction's addiction, oh, absolutely
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
And addiction's real, yeah, but it's hard too,
because you're also dealing withthe fact that now that they're
clean, they're having to processall their shit, all their
baggage all their demons as well, so you get that aspect of it
too.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
So what role is a correctional deputy?
Because it sounds to me like,hey, you're almost like a social
worker, because you'reexperiencing these ups and downs
with them.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, I think, uh, towards the latter part of my
career, we were really, um, youknow, focused on, you know,
reducing recidivism and all thatand re trying to rehabilitate
everybody and, and you know wehad a few programs that we
offered for our male and femaletrustees out on the honor farm

(19:09):
that really dealt with dove intomental health and more like
social work.
So you know, if you wereassigned out there, yeah, it was
more of like you were a socialworker at times.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
So how long would you say it took you for you to
learn your style and get thefeel for things and embrace your
environment?

Speaker 3 (19:31):
I think a good three to five years, I think.
You know, I think by five yearsyou've pretty much seen, seen
it all at that point.
But I mean I mean probablyright, I mean I don't know, I
mean I wouldn't say, I mean Iwas always, I was always
comfortable in there.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
How about your communication skills?
Did that excel as time went by?

Speaker 3 (19:56):
Oh, absolutely, yeah, I mean, and, like I said, I
mean I was used to communicatingwith all walks of life from
where I grew up, socommunicating to people was not,
was not was never really anissue, you know because, in fact
, you know, the funny thing isis, San Luis Obispo County is
predominantly white.
Okay, so you know, when I, whenI first moved there, it was

(20:18):
actually culture shocking to me,Like I couldn't, I was where,
where's everybody else, you know, where?
You know?
I mean, it really was.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
But you're white.
Yeah, I know, you appear white.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah, no, I'm white.
And I mean it was, it wasshocking to me.
No, I totally get it Because,yeah, because I'd grown up.
You know around every, you knowall different colors and
cultures and all this.
And then just going there I waslike where is we?
You know we don't have.
I mean, you know, most of ourpopulation in the jail is
Hispanic and white, pretty much.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Most of the population of the inmates are
Hispanic and white.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
Yes, yes, a few of just a handful of blacks, but
very few.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
It's very funny how we get so comfortable.
I interview former militaryveterans as well.
It's like it almost seems likerace and ethnicity.
We get comfortable with what weknow and what we surround
ourselves with, absolutely.
Oh, and like when you'reoutside of your environment or
you're like oh shit.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yeah, it took a long time for me to adjust to that,
but being in the jail and beingI was I was never uncomfortable
in the jail.
Okay.
I it's.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
I never had to.
Yeah, I just never struggledwith that, like with the
environment.
What crimes did theseindividuals commit that were
getting processed?

Speaker 3 (21:29):
through that jail.
Oh, everything, everything fromteenage or college-age girls
drunk in public to to murder.
I mean we had a murder yeah wehad yeah, we had a serial killer
come through who was a serialkiller uh rex krebs what was he
doing?
Uh, he killed two college girlsin san luis obispo, what's that
?
In the woods or um no, he livedup um actually kind of by avala

(21:52):
beach up in that area was thisduring the time frame you were
working?
uh-huh, holy shit yeah, Iactually, um, the day that he
confessed, I um chained him up,hooked him up and when he came
back I unhooked him and hesmelled like cigarette smoke and
so I knew he'd been out withdetectives because I took him

(22:13):
out.
That was the day that heconfessed.
I took him, I went to thehousing unit and I got him and I
remember he was all pissed offbecause he was just in on a
parole violation and so I'llI'll never forget.
I walked him down and he waslike, well, who's here?
I'm like I don't know.
They just called me, somebodywants to see you.
And then, you know, they hookedhim up, they took him out and
then, when he came back, Iunhooked him and took him back

(22:34):
and I was like, oh, they thenews in that location, like
serial killer on the loose, oh,yeah.
Well, it wasn't serial killer,but I mean they didn't.
They actually didn't.
I mean there was girls missing,but they didn't know.
Yeah, I mean I'm assuming theyassumed that there was.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
So when that individual got arrested, were
there like talks amongst the COsLike hey, that's the dude that
killed these fucking females.
Yeah, that killed these fuckingfemales.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, and well, at first we didn't know because he
was just on a parole violationand so, you know, at that time
we didn't know.
But then later on we found out.
You know, I was like oh, heconfessed to that.
You know, I didn't really knowwhat he was confessing to, but
yeah, and it was weird because Istayed away from him after that
.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Why.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
Because his victims looked a lot like me.
They were short in stature,brown hair, and so I just I did
not.
And he's very charismatic, youknow, extremely charismatic.
And very after that, once hewas, once he was sentenced and
he was staying with a, you know,once he was going through his
court, trial and all that stuff,you know, because he stayed

(23:45):
with us for several years beforehe got convicted, he became
very friendly and verycharismatic.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
So prior to you, you had interactions with him prior
to finding out that he murderedtwo women.
When you found that out, yourinteractions with him changed.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yes, can you elaborate?

Speaker 2 (24:12):
And what I'm seeing is like instinctively, like I
feel, like you instinctivelysense something like fuck this,
fuck this dude.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
I got to keep a distance, yeah, and he would try
to be really friendly.
You know what I mean Likeoverly friendly to you.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Well, these are like serial killers.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
They're like psychopaths, yeah so I just I
didn't play into it.
Yeah, so I just I didn't playinto it.
I was, I would just ignore him,and you know.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
Could you tell what he was doing?

Speaker 3 (24:25):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Well, some fucking people fallfor it yeah no, no, you could,
absolutely, because we had himin an isolation cell.
Obviously he was high profile,you know, and so he spent, he,
you know, stayed his majority ofthe time in an isolation cell.
And so, you know, as you'rewalking by and want to chat with
you, you know, and I'm like Idon't have time, I got, I'm
working.
You know, you got time today.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
A lot of newer CEOs fuck even older.
Some, with some time, have ahard time drawing that line in
the sand.
What tips, advice or could yougive on setting your boundaries,
your own personal boundaries ofwhat you will or will not
tolerate?

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Well, for me, um, you know they're know they're not
your friends.
It's a job, you know what Imean.
So inmates are not your friends.
Now, sometimes they'll be likeoh hey, ceo, can you do me a
favor?
No, I don't do favors, exactlyBecause I only do favors for
friends and we're not friends.
Don't get it twisted.
I can help you out withsomething, but it's not going to

(25:22):
be a favor, right?
You know, out with something,but it's not going to be a favor
, you know.
So, um, so yeah, you just have,you have to set your boundaries
and you have to do that.
And I think that comes from,probably from training, you know
, having good training officersto to let you know, you know,
because at first you want tocause, you want to help
everybody.
That you know you first go onthe job and you're like, oh, I
want to help everybody, you know.
Oh, you need toilet paper.

(25:42):
Yeah, let me, let me, oh wait, Icome back Now.
You need another roll of toiletpaper you know, and so you know
, especially probably as women,as we're more nurturers, you
know.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
So you have to know that, you know you have to set
your boundaries early.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Now this may sound like a wild idea, but what
advice would you give in 2025 ifthe management or supervisors
are saying, hey, these inmatesare just misunderstood.
You really need to get to knowthem, have personal
conversations with them, tellthem about your families,
befriend them?
What would you say?

Speaker 3 (26:17):
Oh, you'd be surprised how many officers do
that.
Yeah, I don't, I don't.
I was very private, right.
Even if I was seen out inpublic with my kids, I would.
If by chance they saw me again,you know, or came back into
custody.
We're like, oh hey, I saw youwith your kids.
I was like those aren't my kids, I don't have kids.
I mean I would, I would lieSmart, I would lie all the time

(26:38):
because being there, you know,at the county jail, you're
seeing most of the people thatare coming into jail how often,
oh lots, all the time All thetime Damn.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
So it's probably beneficial that you know you
keep things on the up and up inthere, Meaning you don't beat
the shit out of somebody, Causethey can see you out there.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
Well, you know, yeah, you know, you're always you're,
and like they know, if they'rebeing an asshole, you know.
And sometimes they'll come uplater and like, sorry, I was
being an asshole, I was having abad day, my old lady did this.
Whatever, you know.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
Right.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
I mean they understand, as long as you're
respectful to them.
You know what I mean.
Respect is so huge, so huge,and you have to understand too
and you know this that the rulesin prison and jail are not the
same rules as out in society,like the same rules that you and
I follow.
There's our own set of rules inprison.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, it's its own separate world.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
Yeah it's a whole entire world.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Give some examples of respect in a correctional
facility and how important it is.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
Oh, you know just the way you talk to somebody.
You know not just treatingsomebody shitty just because
they're an inmate.
You know, hey, like I said andI tell sometimes I say you know,
hey, it could have been me, youknow, I could have, I could
have got that DUI or I couldhave, you know, gotten a drunk
in public or something when Iwas a kid, whatever, you know.
So I mean just being respectful.

(28:07):
I think the way you speak tosomeone, you know how you treat
them.
You know, and just you know, ifsomebody needs toilet paper,
just get them the freakingtoilet paper.
You know, I mean as long asthey have a.
You know they don't have 5,000,.
You know rolls in their thing.
You know, instead of being anass and saying no, I'm not
getting you toilet paper.
You know, I mean, if it'ssomething that can be, I was

(28:30):
always like, if it's somethingthat can be handled and is not
going to cause a problem, thenI'm going to do it, cause that's
part of my job.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Did you guys have soup?
I'm sure you guys hadsupervisor rank.
How did that structure work?

Speaker 3 (28:42):
So regular, like what I would call slick sleeves,
would just be a regularcorrectional deputy.
Then we had senior correctionaldeputies which were our
training officers, and thenafter that was sergeant
lieutenant captain.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
During your time frame?
Was it kind of instilled in youlike, hey, we handle our
problems at the lowest level andwe don't want to bother the
supervisors Absolutely,absolutely Because, as you know,
like as the years change, thatkind of flipped.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
Yes, a hundred percent, a hundred percent.
You know, I'm even, like youknow, getting grievances from
the inmates.
Like I would always handle iton the lowest level, like I
would be like, hey, how can wefix this grievance?
You know, like I don't, I don'twant to take this to my
Sergeant.
Like you know, I need to make aphone call or something.
You know that they need to getout at a certain time or who

(29:27):
knows.
You know just something.
I'm just making an example, youknow, probably not a correct
example, but you know, if it'ssomething low level that I could
fix, like if they want togrieve because they're not
getting toilet paper, you know,here I'll give you a roll of
toilet paper.
I'm not going to take this tomy unit is what I would say,
especially if I was working ahousing unit.
Like I don't want to bring heatto my unit, I don't want to

(29:48):
bring my sergeant over to myunit if I need to run make sure
it runs smooth.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
It's basically a reflection of yourself.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
Sure, right I mean and I was a supervisor so you
can always tell the ones that donot have control of the unit.
Well, and that's a huge thing,is having control.
I mean, obviously you're oneperson in a housing unit of tons
of inmates, but you still havecontrol.
You have to control thisenvironment.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Is there a formal grievance process in the jail?
I mean like a form or something.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
Yes, it's changed.
It used to be you had to rideon a kite.
Hey, I want a grievance, andthen we would get the grievance
Like a regular piece of paper.
No, we have inmate kites thatare requests inmate requests, so
they can request stuff on thiskite, and there's medical ones,
psychological ones or mentalhealth ones, and then there's
just regular general askingquestion.

(30:44):
So they would ask for agrievance on the kite.
We could get get the grievance,and then I would go out and
talk to people like, hey, youknow, uh, you know what's going
on, you know, can we solve thisproblem?
You know we'll talk to theperson and then if it was
something that I could solve, Iwould solve it.
If it was something that was,you know, maybe above me, then I
was like all right, hey, goahead and put the grievance in.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
I'm really glad we're talking about this, because
this topic has never been spokenon.
Um grievances, I mean, inmatesdo have grievances.
Let's keep it real, and I dokeep it real.
Um, yeah, I mean, they fuckinglive there, they're going,
they're not going anywhere.
Yeah, they need sometimes theyneed some shit.
Yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:22):
No, there's some legit grievances, you know, at
times and, like I said, I don'tthink I there wasn't very many
grievances that I turned inbecause I generally tried to
take care of them, I meanobviously.
I couldn't take care of all ofthem.
But I know, see, in the earlyyears they weren't allowed to
grieve officers.
But towards the end of mycareer they were allowed to

(31:44):
grieve officers.
But towards the end of mycareer they were allowed to
grieve officers and we were justhanding out grievances in the
housing units, like not evenhaving to kite anymore.
We just gave them to them.
Here you go.
Here you go.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
What were they grieving Like?
Oh I don't like this guy's getdown, this person's mistreating
us.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
Yes, I don't, I can't even, I can't even tell you
what.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
I know you mentioned that a lot of these were
revolving doors, gettingarrested and going back into the
streets, but what about theones that were facing prison
time?
What did that process look likefor them?
So yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
So basically, I mean, you know same process, whatever
it is that they, you knowthey're getting arrested for.
You know, if they're already onparole, you know it could be a
parole violation on top of a newcharge.
So you know, once they getsentenced, or you know, take
their, you know take their plea,whatever they, whatever their
sentence is, then they wouldstay with us until back in law.

(32:38):
You know, beginning of mycareer, cdc bus would come and
pick them up or the LA Countybus.
Was it the LA County bus or CDC?
No, the CDC bus, no, the CDCbus would come, because I
remember, I remember they'dalways give the females these
big old muumuu's, muumuu dressesto wear.
They'd dress them out like CDCofficers, would come in, they
would strip search the gals thatwere going or the guys that

(33:01):
were going, you know, and theywould give them the females,
these big we call them muumuuthey're big muumuu dresses.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Now they have male transgenders wearing muumuu's on
the yard.
Yeah, that doesn't surprise me,yeah, yeah, that's a whole
other topic.
I know what a muumuu is,unfortunately, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
Yeah, that's a whole other topic that we could get
into because it's on the countyjail of this interview.
Yeah, but yeah.
So CDC bus would come and pickthem up and then just take them
off, you know to Wasco or youknow wherever.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Did they ever?
Because you said Slow Jail wasright across from Mule Creek, or
not Mule?

Speaker 3 (33:32):
Creek, no CMC.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
CMC.
Did they ever send atransportation team, or vice
versa, across the street likethat?
No, first process the reception, yeah, yeah, so, and then
wherever they go.
Okay, that makes sense.
So, hey guys, consider becominga patron, where you will get
first exclusive dibs on thevideo before it airs to the

(33:53):
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So that's also another way tosupport the channel.
Thank you, guys.
Appreciate all of you.
Keep pushing forward.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
Make sure you hit that link in description below
yeah, and then back then it wasChowchilla, so females would go
down to Chowchilla.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
I don't want to jump too far ahead, but what did you
prefer working the male side ofthe house or the female?

Speaker 3 (34:17):
side of the house.
That's a tough one.
Males are less dramatic.
I was about to tell you, I hatewomen.
Yeah, there's a lot of drama.
There can be a lot of drama in afemale housing unit and it
really depends on the inmatesthat you have in there, because

(34:39):
a lot of the same girls arecoming in, you know, and they
all know each other from thestreets and stuff.
So you know, you bring in onefemale, put them in a housing
unit and it can just totallydisrupt the whole entire housing
unit.
You know, and the same thingwith males too, but Not really
Not too much, no.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
No, but can you elaborate Like what is it?
What did you observe?
Did you observe like, because Iknow they get into
relationships with each other.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
I was going to say it's usually over relationships,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
But don't they adopt roles Like oh, I'm going to be
the mom You're going to be thedaughter Like what else did you
observe?

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Yeah, sometimes.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
That changed the dynamics, or yeah?

Speaker 3 (35:16):
just drama, you know, or it could be just, you know,
drama from the streets, you know, just like you know somebody
messing around with somebody's,you know boyfriend, yeah, or
whatever.
Oh, yeah, you know.
So just that kind of drama, orjust drama from the streets,
yeah, just whatever Dope deals,you know, who knows, somebody
stole something from somebody.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
So Well, could we do have viewers that are females
and work in female institutions?
Do they treat the femalesdifferent than they do the males
?
The COs.

Speaker 3 (35:47):
I don't think I mean.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
From your experience.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
Not no, I mean like everybody gets the same stuff.
You know what I mean For Not no, I mean like everybody gets the
same stuff.
You know what?

Speaker 2 (35:55):
I mean for the most part.
What I meant was do the femaleinmates like have it out for
female staff members?
No, I don't think so.
I never felt like that, likecaddy or whatever.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
No, I never felt like that.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Okay, so you were able to communicate with them.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
Yeah, because I'll check them too, you know.
I mean, you know, same rulesapply Did.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Did you ever?

Speaker 3 (36:11):
have to, oh gosh, yes .

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Oh, yes, why?
Because they forgot where theywere.
They got out of line.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, no.
So I had a rule in my head, andthis was from early on If I
tell you three times to dosomething, if by the third time
you haven't done it, it's goingto get done.
Okay, whatever I'm asking youto do, so whether I have to do
you know whether I have to getyou to do it or I have to bring
somebody else over to get you todo it.
You know, whatever I'm onlygoing to ask you three times.

(36:37):
I'm not going to beg you, I'mnot going to negotiate, I'm not
going to bribe you.
I'm going to ask you threetimes.
And so, yeah, I mean there wastimes that I mean this was
probably earlier in my career.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Things were different earlier on in your career.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Yeah, it wasn't, it was different in.
There was and there was amutual respect.
You know, like if you had to gohands-on with somebody, they
respected that.
The next time they came in theyremembered, you know, that
there was a hands-on incidentand usually didn't have problems

(37:12):
.
We didn't have as many problemsback in my earlier career as we
did later on.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
They probably understood that it was business.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Absolutely Most, most inmates understand, you know
they have a yeah, they have ajob, we have a job.
Like everybody has a job to do.
Sometimes you're better at yourjob, sometimes I'm better at
mine.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Right, cat and mouse.
Yeah, back then.
Yeah, so you started in 98.
You would eventually take aleave of absence, or did you?

Speaker 3 (37:42):
quit?
No, I left at that time.
I left in 2002, 2003, right inthat area or that timeframe, and
so I was gone from the jail fornine years.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Nine years, that's a long time.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
Yeah, it was a long time.
Yeah, definitely, so that'skind of interesting.
We'll talk about the changeswhen I came back.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
We were talking about stress.
Did you feel yourself likedecompress when you left?
Did you realize like fuck theenvironment?
I was in, kind of had mytension up 100%.
And did you realize that whileyou were working, or that's
something you noticed?

Speaker 3 (38:18):
No, you don't realize it until after you.
And then, and it's still.
It took, it has still taken meyears to not like when people
walk up behind me like I don't,I don't like it.
It, it's it's puts me on edgeand it's still taking.

(38:39):
I'm probably I'm better now.
But yeah, you notice that atfirst, like the whole weight of
your shoulders is like thiswhole liability or there's just
this stress is gone.
But it does take time to likealmost readapt to civilian life,
I guess.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
No, you're right.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
Because I mean I spent, you know, you figure I
did 12 hours a day.
You know we worked 12-hourshifts, so I spent a lot of time
in there.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
You said a word right now liability.
I don't think civiliansunderstand the immense stress
that it comes with the feelingof liability Like fuck man, I
can get caught up in a wreck, Ican get caught up in a federal
indictment with something mypartner does.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Can you talk about more of the liabilities that
correctional officers take on.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Yeah Well, I think now, especially with the way
that the public perceives, youknow, law enforcement, there's
not a lot of support.
So even doing your jobsometimes looks bad.
You know, if you have to gohands on with somebody, it
doesn't.
Going hands on with somebody isnot, does not look good, it
looks ugly.
You know, if you have to gohands-on with somebody, it
doesn't.
Going hands-on with somebodydoes not look good.
It looks ugly, it's ugly, yeah,it's ugly business and so it

(39:41):
doesn't look good.
And if you hit it from acertain angle, this angle, it
could look real bad.
But they don't see what led upto that and you know what got
you to that point.
So even for doing your job youcan be liable.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
By the book too, doing everything, everything,
right yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
And that's what you know towards the end of my
career.
That's what?

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Well, because, fuck, I don't want to jump ahead
because agendas get involved,political pushes and fucking
peer pressure.
Absolutely they can be out toburn anyone.
Yep.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Absolutely We've seen that.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
So while you're away on your little vacation for nine
years, AB-109 hits.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
Yes, AB-109 was hitting what?
2011, 12?
Yeah, 11, 12, right in there.
And when did you touch backinto the institution?

Speaker 2 (40:25):
2011.
2011.
2011.
Ab-109, for those of you guysnot familiar with AB-109, that
was huge here in California.
We pretty much released a lot,a lot of inmates to the streets
and to the local county jails.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
Yeah, yeah, the the what.
The goal was that the statewanted to reduce the prison
population.
Correct.
Right.
So in doing that, all they didwas they took funds from the
prisons and gave it to thecounty and then said the county
and, and just shifted all theprisoners over to the county.
And so we were completelyunprepared.

(40:59):
I mean, you, you talk about,you know the difference between
prison, county jails were only,are only there to spend a year,
like you know it used to be you.
The most you could spend in acounty jail, sentenced as a
sentence inmate, was one year.
Okay, if you were sentencedanything over a year, you go
upstate.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Right.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
Okay, you know, obviously you could stay there
longer if you're going throughtrial and all that stuff, but so
we only have housing, that's,you know, facilities that are
for a year.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Correct.
You know, like infrastructureand supplies probably.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
I mean it's huge.
So services, all that.
So when all that shifted overto us, our population like
doubled.
So when I was there just putthis in hindsight when I was
there earlier, when I left inlike 2002, 2003, our population

(41:54):
was probably in the fourhundreds.
Okay, when I 400, total, total,total, you know, and and give
or take.
You know, when I came back um,our population was 800 plus.
Our female jail only is wasonly capable of holding like 43.
We'd have sometimes a hundredfemales in there.
I mean, there was times I'd belike I said stepping over bodies

(42:15):
.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Okay, I want you to paint the picture for me what
that unit looked like.
What was there Cells, bunk bedsPrior to the influx?
What did it look like?
Where were the ladies sleeping,the inmates?

Speaker 3 (42:28):
So we had two dormitories.
One was a trustee dormitory,the other one where we used all
our workers, and then the otherone was a trustee dormitory, the
other one where we used ourworkers, and then the other one
was just a low level dorm.
So your low level.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Are they on bunk beds ?

Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah, bunk beds yeah.
So it was probably, I thinkmaybe 30 to each side 30 to each
side.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Yes, and is there a day room area?

Speaker 3 (42:55):
Yes, yeah, day room, it's all open, it's bunk bed,
yeah, it's just like a dorm,okay.
So TVs yeah, tvs, tables,showers, you know, toilets, all
that.
Then you go down the hall andyou turn, we'd have one safety
cell and three isolation cellsand then there was a maximum
maximum security area.
So those were all two two men,two, two women cells and those
were our heavy hitters.
You know our parolees or youknow?

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Serious women.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
So when you would walk into that those units pre
AB 109, did you feel like therewas enough space to walk around?
Oh, yeah, yeah, it feltmanageable.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
And then what about after?

Speaker 3 (43:31):
Oh, at one point, like I said, I mean literally
you open the door and you'realmost stepping over a body.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
What are they doing?
Sleeping on the floor.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah, sleeping on the floor.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
On a mattress.
Yeah, yeah.
Were there not a bunk assignedto?

Speaker 3 (43:43):
them.
No, there was no bunksavailable.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
So then, how do you like?

Speaker 3 (43:46):
So there is a through .
What is it?
Title 15.
They can only sleep on thefloor for so long.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
But how do you track their housing?
You know, you can't say likecell 101.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
Yeah, Well it was like dorm dorm one, dorm two,
and then we have like each bunknumber has a bunk, and then we
would just like okay, you're now, you're 36 or 37, you know yeah
.
So you know he's kind of in inrows, you know, you just kind of
line them up.
Yeah, the worst.
So you know he's kind of in inrows, you know, you just kind of
light him up.
Yeah, the worst was likeseriously like stepping over
bodies.
So classification ourclassification unit was like

(44:20):
constantly having to juggle.
You know like okay, with thisthis person can only yeah, I
know this person can only be onthe floor for so long no way,
holy shit, that was a fuckingthing.
Yeah, because yeah for title 15.
I think it's like I can'tremember.
I I cannot remember rememberhow long, but it's only like a
few days or a day or 48 hours.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
I never even knew that wasn't a Title 15.

Speaker 3 (44:40):
I think I'm pretty sure it is, I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
But there's some type of legal aspect to it.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Yeah, that you have to get them up off the floor, so
they would just constantly beswapping.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
So were they rotating them through?
Yeah, just rotating.
Yeah, oh, my Typical, typicalbullshit yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
I mean we didn't have any choice, I mean there was
nothing else we could do at thattime, Because, see, we weren't
kicking people out at that timewe were keeping everybody, so
you know.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Were these female inmates unhappy that they were
sleeping on the floor.
I don't think they cared.
They didn't care.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
For some of them it was probably better than
sleeping on the sidewalk Underthe fucking bridge or something.
Yeah on the bridge, yeah so.
Yeah, I mean we'd give themdouble mattresses and stuff, you
know, if we had them available,you know.
So it wasn't much.
I can't imagine it was muchworse than the steel bunk that
they slept on.
I know it's just the wholeaspect of like we're in the

(45:36):
United States and we haveinmates sleeping on the floor.
Yeah, that seems like thirdworld country type.
Oh yeah, stuff to me, yeah, butwe built a new jail.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
You know, okay, what about their chow time?
Like um, did they leave thedorm to go into a chow hall?

Speaker 3 (45:46):
no, we just we feed them in the dorm.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
That's horrible well, they have tables in there yeah,
but I mean, like I told you, Idid a week in jail and one of
the things I look forward to isleaving the fucking dorm and
going to the chow hall andeating.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
Hey, if you don't like it, then go to jail.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
What about yard recreation time?

Speaker 3 (46:04):
Yeah, we had a separate yard so we would just
do yard call.
Sometimes we'd force everybodyto go out.
You know if it was a nice dayeverybody's getting up.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Everybody up, everybody's going out and
getting some sunshine today, youknow, otherwise we'd do like
voluntary yard time and put themout.
There was a yard adjacent, nowwere the male side of the house
also overpopulated after AB 119?

Speaker 3 (46:23):
Oh, absolutely.
What did it?

Speaker 2 (46:23):
look like Like, like like the cells were full or Same
thing they had like floorsleepers.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
They did.
Yeah, in the cells, some in thedorms, absolutely yeah, I mean,
it was, it was crazy.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
You know that's a bad time in our state history.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
It is, it was, and people just thought they were.
You know, I think, or whoeverthought they were doing such a
good thing.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
You know we talked about it offline.
It's a political agenda fromthe top.
Yeah, and who paid?

Speaker 3 (46:50):
Everybody, fucking, fucking paid at the well, not
only were we, but probation alsogot hit too, because they were
having to take all these casesnow um, so yeah, it was just a
whole, whole entire thing.
The other thing too is, you know, we didn't have, once we
started sentencing people, ourfirst, um, our first inmate to
be sentenced was a female, and Ibelieve that she got seven

(47:12):
years.
So somebody told me 15, but Ithink it was seven, because I
think she got out in like threeand a half or something, but she
got sentenced to seven years incounty jail.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
Seven years in county jail.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
That was one of the first ones that got that major
sentence.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
Yeah, she was the very first one, yeah, the first
one after.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
Were you guys shocked .

Speaker 3 (47:31):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Well, the thing was is that—.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
Was she shocked?

Speaker 3 (47:35):
No, she was—I mean she knew it was coming.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
I mean she'd been upstate several times, yeah, but
to be housed for seven years,though, because this is what
we're talking about now.
We're talking about how thesentencing became lengthy for
county jails.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
Well, here's the thing, though.
So once we got—you know, oncewe had these individuals, we had
to start looking at classifyingthem differently.
So like, for instance, her, shewas a parolee, right Parolee.
We would never make one of ourtrustees.
That was just our rule.
I mean, that wasn't like a rule, but it was just kind of a
thing, like we didn't make anyparolees trustees, so they
didn't get to go out to thehonor farm.

(48:19):
So with this now we're likelooking at things like okay,
well, she's going to be hereseven years.
You know, we need to get herinto some programs.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
We need to do, you know, get more yardage, get work
time, you know, and if theywere cooperative.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
You know like she was .
She was willing to work andwanted to program Cause, I mean,
she's going to do seven yearsin County.
You know you want to be doingsomething and that was the thing
is that a lot of people are alot of the inmates.
They didn't want to do Countytime.
They didn't want to do theirsentence in County.

(48:59):
Smaller yards, commissary, notas good you know, didn't have,
they didn't have access to theprograms to the, to the medical.
I mean we didn't have access tothe programs to the medical.
I mean we didn't have medicallike the prison system.
Does you know like, just likecheckups?
You know mammograms, you knowwhatever, you know just your
typical.
You know yearly checkups.
That you know, you and I woulddo Right and we didn't have
access to that.
I mean, yeah, we could sendthem out, but it just we weren't
prepared for it, Correct.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
No, basically what you just described was and we
did it too as employees we tookshortcuts to accommodate the
changes that were thrusted uponus.
And they became dangerous andunsafe and unsecured.
Right, and that's why we'veseen a rise in crime not only in
the streets, but incorrectional facilities.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
Yeah, so what happened, too, is, once we
started getting all these, youknow what we would call heavy
hitters, you know our moresophisticated inmates that were
staying with us for long termwell, we started, and then, when
we're overcrowded, what do wedo?
We start kicking out all thelow levels, all the low levels,
right.
So now we need workers, becauseour workers you know our, our

(49:58):
trustees were usually our lowlevel workers.
Well, now we have none becausebecause of also because of the
props and stuff too.
You know, nobody was spendingany time in jail.
You know our, our lower levelcriminals nobody was, nobody was
staying.
So we were having to use, youknow, parolees that we would
have never, ever made trustees.
We were using them, andsometimes it turned out okay and

(50:21):
sometimes it didn't.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Yeah, but that's not a dice.
You want to roll.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
No, we didn't have a choice.
Otherwise nothing would begetting clean.
I mean, there'd be no kitchenworkers.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Which goes back to the feeling of liability.
This is all, all bad, but thisis what we're doing yeah, yeah
so now?
Was there an increase inviolence during this time?

Speaker 3 (50:44):
um, there was, you know, there was a couple
incidences that we had um,because they didn't want to stay
.
You know, people didn't want tostay.
If they were non-violent,non-serious, non-sex crimes,
right, they were sentenced tocounty jail.
But some of these guys werelike, fuck this, I don't want to
do my time in county jail, I'lljust do a quick.
You know, staff assault, youknow and get.

(51:07):
And then now I'm, now I'mviolent, so now I'm going to get
.
You know, I get a little tinybit racked on my sins and I'm
going to go upstate and I can bewith all my homies.
So we had one staff assaultthat I remember.
We had one guy try to set hiscell on fire, so he got arson
charged.
So he goes, you know, becausethey didn't want to stay.
You know they didn't want to bewith us.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
I'm so glad you're saying all of this because it's
the truth, it's multifaceted,it's a three dimension and it's
a different world.
Yeah, and it becomes that muchmore dangerous for the
correctional officers and otherinmates too, because it's like,
hey, if I could kill anotherinmate just so I could go to
state that's what I'm going todo.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
Oh, yeah, yeah, Also too during that time when we
were overcrowded.
Obviously you have more medruns going, you have more court
going, you have more stuff goingon, and we were getting short
staffed, you know, becausepeople are getting burned out
and and then you know they'rejust mandatory in overtime and
just working everyone to death.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
So you said it was fun early on.
Was this when it began to beunfun fun?

Speaker 3 (52:11):
Yeah, yeah, I think probably around, I want to say
probably for me 2000,.
Maybe 16, 15, 16.
It wasn't, I mean, it was causeI was still you know, I had
just came back on, you know, an11, 12, 13.
So I was just getting back inthe mix of it.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
But Was things from your perspective not making
sense to you?

Speaker 3 (52:37):
Oh yeah, no, it didn't.
I mean I understood what washappening.
I mean I knew what washappening, I knew you know what
was going on.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
No, you knew that there was a lot of changes, but
did you really know what wasgoing on?

Speaker 3 (52:53):
Like from the top.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
Yeah, it's all about money and politics and that's so
crazy that you would be able tograsp that from your point of
view, though because I didn'tsee corruption later on, until
later in my career.
Oh yeah, that's so it makessense to me, like why would you,
you know, I mean, why would youshift the prison population?
It's, I mean it, it was asinine, you know.
I mean seriously, you justshifted the, you know, and it

(53:20):
looks so great.
Oh look, we've reduced ourprison population.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Look at, us, you know ?
Oh, you're right, it was thefacade.
Yeah, it was the facade thatwas being sold to the public.
Hey, we have lesser inmates inprison, lesser inmates in jail
and the recidivism rate hasreduced, Right when.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
Yeah, and then when we got so overcrowded, then I
think they started passing allthe Prop 47, all these props and
then we're just kickingeverybody out.
So now we have nobody in ourfacility.
You know, nobody spends time injail.
So I can see the frustration onall levels, on all levels, like
it's frustrating for us whenwe're getting somebody in and we

(53:57):
literally have to just likefingerprint them, process, do
all this work and then they'rejust going right back out the
door.
And same with you know streetcops.
You know they're bringingpeople in.
They just, you know they'relike I'm not going to arrest
that this drunk guy anymore.
You know that that's why yougot all these.
You know people on the streetsand stuff that weren't on the
streets before.
They used to arrest them, youknow for 11, 550 or something

(54:19):
and bring them in.
But now they get arrested for,you know, being under the
influence.
They're out in four hours andthe grand theft.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
They also changed the grand theft price where it went
fucking nuts yeah, yeah, and sothere was no consequences.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
When you have no, no consequences.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Okay, you're a mother , oh and happy belated Mother's
Day, by the way.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
Oh, thank you.
Yes, thank you, I got my daysall screwed up, that's all right
, thank you.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
So you're a mother and you're a former correctional
deputy.
How important is consequencesfor people's actions when they
misbehave?

Speaker 3 (54:50):
Oh, extremely important.
You don't learn a lesson unlessyou teach it.
You know.
But it almost seems, if there'sno consequence, like what do
you get to lose?
You know?
Yeah, it seems very commonsense, correct, you know?

Speaker 2 (55:05):
But it just seems like a lot of people don't
understand that concept.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
Well, because a lot of people want to.
You know, they want to justsugarcoat everything and, you
know, pretend that everything'srainbows and unicorns.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Bury their head in the sand.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
Yeah, it's not, and a lot of times the people that
you're dealing with, they don'tlive in that same world, correct
?

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Elaborate on that.
What kind of world, what kindof language do they understand?

Speaker 3 (55:32):
from your experience, Well, let's put it this way I
can tell you politely, or I cantell you ghetto, but either way,
you're gonna fucking understandwhat I said.
Facts you know, so so I canspeak to you.
You know, I I mean, I'm notgonna speak to you know some, uh
, you know gangbanger, like youknow.
Okay, you know we need to dothis right you know, I'm gonna

(55:53):
tell you hey, get your shit,let's go.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
You know I mean within reason, absolutely yeah,
within reason.
Yeah, I mean, especially duringa giant melee or a violent
encounter.
Understand that?

Speaker 3 (56:03):
move now, yeah right you know, yeah, you don't walk
up behind me, you know.
I mean, you know, now, that wasa huge thing, like you know I
would walk into a male housingunit and sometimes, like you
know, because a lot of times thefemales didn't work the male
housing units because we werealways short, so we'd always end
up working, we'd always be inthe females.
So, you know, as soon as youhit and you're in the male unit,
they're like you know, they allwant to ask you all kinds of

(56:25):
questions or what you know, andI'm like don't run up on me, do
not walk behind me.
You know the deal.
I'm like you know better, likestep aside, you know, don't come
up up, don't come up on me,like that.
You know.
Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, butthey'll try to test you.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
you know they're always trying to test you to see
how far they can go you know,we had a major um issue when
body worn cameras came on scenein fuck 2020.
Uh, we were the first prison toget them and the administration
besides them being corrupt.
They were holding staffaccountable for cussing on body

(57:01):
worn camera and speaking to themexactly how we just described.
Yeah, right Now, how realisticis it for officers to be able to
speak like that to someone toget somebody to comply?

Speaker 3 (57:12):
Oh, it's absolutely necessary at times.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
Correct, you have to know your audience.
Right.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
You absolutely have to know.
Now I'm not going to tell thelittle 80-year-old lady who you
know, came in for a DUI to getyour shit and let's go, you know
.
But I mean you know, you haveto know your audience.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
You have to be able to turn it up and turn it down.
Yeah, you have to.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
Yeah, and you have to know who you're dealing with.
I mean, and it's not, it's nota disrespect thing.
Sometimes it's just.
It's just, you know the waythat you talk.
I mean, you know when you'retalking to somebody, you know
trying to get your point acrossand you want to be on the same
level sometimes.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
So Now working in a correctional setting.
Did you looking back inhindsight?
Did it take a toll on yourfamily life?

Speaker 3 (57:53):
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Can you explain in some situations maybe?

Speaker 3 (57:56):
how maybe how you talk to your children oh yeah,
like, yeah, absolutely, it takesa toll on you.
You can say that it doesn't,but it does.
Um, yeah, just, I meansometimes you know you're you're
tired cause you've workedgraveyard shift 12 hours and you
know you're short, your tempershort.

(58:20):
You know you don't want to putup with stuff.
You know, sometimes you'reyou're you're like wait a minute
, these are my kids and thesearen't inmates.
You know, yeah, you just, itjust it's stress and it was a
lot of stress and a lot offatigue, I think.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
How important is it for correctional staff members
to take care of themselvesmentally and be able to identify
that now so it doesn't ruintheir relationships?

Speaker 3 (58:39):
Oh, it's extremely important.
I think mental and physical ishuge, huge.
I think those like if you canstay physically active, that's
going to like greatly help withyour mental health.
But you know, obviously youknow talking to somebody, if you
have somebody to talk to.
But you know, I think that'sthe thing is that there's such a
stigma.
You know we in law enforcementthat you know, we, we always

(59:01):
have to be tough and strong andand you know we don't want to
show weakness, you know.
And so I think sometimes whenwe feel like you know we're
struggling with our mentalhealth and we feel weak and that
doesn't sit well.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
I think we're the ones that need it the most
because of the environment thatwe're in A hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , a hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
What are some healthy coping skills or activities
that one could partake inoutside of the job?

Speaker 3 (59:28):
You know they always say you know you should have
friends that are, you know, notnot.
You know not not, you know notin law enforcement.
But that's it's really hardsometimes, you know, because you
, you, you almost trauma bondwith these people, you know
trauma bond.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Yeah, I'm fucking, I'm stealing that yeah, no, it's
a thing.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
Yeah, no, you, you trauma bond with your partners a
lot of times.
Um, so, you know, and you endup, you know, nobody gets your
sense of humor.
You know, because you, youlaugh at, yeah, you have you
laugh at stuff that is likereally sad, but it's just how
you cope, you know, cause I'mlike how could I just, you know,
have seen what I seen and likeI mean I got to try to
compartmentalize it, you know,so I don't lose my mind, you

(01:00:07):
know.
Um, so, yeah, your, your senseof humor, you know.
You just you don't trustanybody.
A lot of times you get kind oflike, you just you're kind of I
don't want to say paranoid, butwhat about profiling old white

(01:00:30):
men at the park, don't?
You know all a bunch of youknow law enforcement, but it is
important to have, you know, agood family, support other
friends.
Besides law enforcement, I'm abig advocate of working out.
So that's huge.
I mean I think that you'redoing a disservice to the job
and the career if you do notkeep yourself in physical shape.

(01:00:51):
So that's, I mean it's not onlygreat for you know, for your
body but it's also good for yourmental health.
But it's good for can save yourlife for somebody else's.
Yeah, Save your life forsomebody else's you know,
whether it's you, another inmate, another, a partner, whatever
you know cause.
Ultimately, I mean, that's whatyou're there.
The job is there for the safetyand security of the facility.
That includes inmates yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
And the public, yeah, yeah.
Make sure they don't jump thefucking fence and kill somebody
yeah, exactly, yeah, right, Imean it just happened yeah, it
happened, oh yeah yeah, um, youmentioned you worked, uh, the
ankle monitoring unit.
How did, when did that comeabout?

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
oh, we've always had that, or I mean for as long as I
can remember, we've always hadthat program.
Um, so it was.
It was three programs in oneunit.
Basically, you could docommunity service.
If you're a really low-leveloffender, we would send you out
to job sites within the countyto do work.

(01:01:50):
The next level was to have likea GPS unit on you, so depending
on what your crime was.
And then we did the scrambracelet, which is the alcohol
monitoring bracelet.
So anybody obviously that hadyou know DUIs, we would put them
on there.
It reads the skin make sureyou're not drinking.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
So did you have an office at the jail?

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
Yes, we had an office down that was located down at
the honor farm, so it was awayfrom the main facility.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
How big is this complex?
Can I, can you walk back andforth with a reasonable time?

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
No, no, not no, the, the honor farm where our
trustees are all at and thekitchen is and all that is like
right there out on highway one.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
Um, so you can see it from highway one.
The main facility is down theroad about I don't know half a
mile or so.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
Oh, I didn't know that.
Yeah, I always kind of assumedthat was a jail right there.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
No, no, no, no.
The whole, the other facilities, all the way down.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
But is there wire?
Is there razor wire around theone off of the 101?

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Oh, okay, and that's why.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
I thought it was a jail right there.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Now, that to me sounds awesome, because you're
not working around the inmates.
It was awesome.
What were the hours?
Banker's hours Pretty much,yeah, awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
But actually I was on call.
I was on call, a lot prettymuch all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Do they provide you with a cell phone?

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
I did have a cell phone.
I had a take-home car Laptop.
Yes, I had a laptop I wastrying to think yes, I had a
laptop.
I was trying to think these areall the cool perks.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had a laptop, I had a cell phone
.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
I had a take-home car and then.
But I did work a lot of youknow, because I mean if ankle
monitor's going off, you knowsomebody's drinking in the
middle of the night.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
Did you get paid for that?
Yeah, you have to, like, logyour hours.
Yeah, the on-call pay for that.
So wait a minute.
How does that work if a dude?
There's an ankle monitor that'snew to me, though and it tells
you that somebody's consumingalcohol?
You're responsible for thatindividual Mm-hmm.
So then what?

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
Yes, so then I got to go out and go get them.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
No way, yes, no way, that's a whole nother issue.

Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
So we basically were like it's almost like probation,
kind of like probation officers.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
That's the best way I could explain it.
What are?

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
you tracking him on, just like if they have like a
zone that they or a time Like.
So they usually had curfewsLike okay, so if you work, you
know, say they had a job, youknow, and they work from eight
to five.
Well, from five until eight,you know, or the next day they
got to be at home you, or thenext day they got to be at home
you know they had, we would settheir schedule up and set a zone
.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
So you weren't actively tracking them on like
um.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
Yeah, I could if.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
I, I mean yeah, I could.

Speaker 3 (01:04:27):
Yeah, I could if I needed to, but it would like
alert me, like if they're out oftheir zone, or if they left the
house when they weren'tsupposed to, or they weren't
home when they were supposed to.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
You had a gun, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Yeah, yeah, so we carry.
I'm so old school like PR-24s,but you know, side handle baton,
okay.
And I mean we had ASP too.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
What did you carry?

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
A PR-24.
I'm old school, yeah, so andthen we yeah, we have weapons,
you know obviously a firearm.
So anytime we didtransportation, whether it's to
court, medical or work in homedetention, we're carrying.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Oh, you failed to mention that.
So if you, were a regular.
If you worked in the dorm and adude had to go to the court,
you guys had an armory where youguys can get a weapon.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
We had our lockers and stuff.
We all had our own personalweapons.
We weren't issued.
We all had our own personal.
We weren't issued.
We all had our own personalweapons.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
And at what point do you qualify on them?

Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
We qualify every quarterly.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Quarterly, so you bring your personal weapon.

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Is there a list that your weapon can be choose from?

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
Yes, exactly, they give you a list and they give
you a stipend.
I think you know, when youfirst get hired to buy, to
purchase a weapon, and they have, you know you can only buy this
brand, this.
You know the barrel's got to bethis long.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
Was there a shooting range on the facility?

Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
Yes, oh, there was.
Yeah, we had a shooting rangethere.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
Yeah, so every quarterly was it up to each
individual, or did you guys havelike quarterly classes that
would go out?

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
No, we had what we called qualifying, so every
quarter we would be required togo out there and qualify, so
like while you're on duty.
You know they would justrelieve as best we could.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
Were there people that sucked at shooting and
failed to qualify?
Oh yeah, Okay, so it'severywhere.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
Yeah, yeah, not too much, though, not too terribly
bad.
But yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
How was the shooting course?
Like?
Three yards, seven yards, yeah,yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
It depends on the time of year.
Like you know, they set updifferent stuff.
Each time was always different,so our main qualification was
like yeah, three, seven, 15, 25.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Did you find it to be difficult?

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
You know I'm not a.
I'm not a.
Let me just put it this way Iwill hit you.
You're going to get hit.
I will hit you.
It may not be in the zone I'msupposed to but I will hit you.
It's good enough for me, yeah.
Let's just put it that way Okay, you will get hit.
Yeah, I'm not like.
I'm not like a marksman.

(01:06:58):
You know, my, my, my groupingisn't like this, but I mean it
may be a little bit more likethis, but you're going to get
hit, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
It's probably my most interesting interview.
I've heard so much for stufffor the first time that makes
total sense to me.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
I've never heard of putting Well.
I used to tell inmates that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
I'm like listen, if you run, I'm like I will, I'm
going to hit you.
It may not be where you want meto hit you, I'm gonna hit you.
Oh shit, so yeah, okay, cool.
So now I know you got a gun andnow you're in the specialized
unit.
You got a drunk guy, oldhowards, out there.
Now what is your role?
What is your duties?

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
so, um, I would, we would, I would partner up um
when we had to go get somebodylike say somebody was violating
because there was three of us inthe unit.
So then one of my partners, wewould go out and go out and
retrieve them.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
What did that consist of?
Hey, put your hands up, comehere, walk back towards me.

Speaker 3 (01:07:51):
Yeah, it was a shit show.
Let me pat you down.
Yeah, it was a shit showsometimes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
I'm sure they weren't thrilled.

Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
No Well, yeah, but sure they weren't thrilled.
no well, yeah, but I mean theyknew we were you know, they knew
, I mean they knew, if theydrink most of the time, by the
time you, by the time you get tothem, like you know it's it's
been a while, so they're not.
They may not necessarily bestill intoxicated, you know, but
, um, most of them be like, yeah, I drank, I mean most majority
of the time, but you'd besurprised how many people show
up to get on the programshit-faced what do you mean,

(01:08:16):
shit-faced drunk, to like get onthe program shit-faced.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
What do you?

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
mean Shit-faced drunk To like get on the program.
Like they have to come, likethey have to apply to the
program, like while they're incustody generally, or sometimes
when they're out, and then weapprove them.
And then we set a day, like anappointment, like, hey, you know
, like you would go to probationor something, hey, come down on
this day we're going to, we'llbook you in on the program
because you're you'retechnically in custody but

(01:08:38):
you're not in custody.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
Oh, I didn't know that that's what they're doing
now.
Yeah, so you're doing that nowwith California lifers, right
Lifers.

Speaker 3 (01:08:45):
Yeah, so you're in custody.
So you're on our books as beingin custody, but you're out, you
know you're out so sketchy.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
That's so sketchy for me because you capable of.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean, it started out likeyou know we had.
It was mostly, you know, duislow level, like really low, low
level.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
As a matter of fact, man, right before I resigned,
right before I was a Lieutenantin the governor's office, called
this one inmate, saidcongratulations, inmate.
So-and-so, you're our firstcandidate ever for this new
program.
We know you're going to dogreat, we just know it.
He's like yeah, I won't let youdown.
I'm like let me look this dudeup, let me see what this guy did
.
He lived across the street froma lady that had a child, like

(01:09:27):
in the first grade, and toldthem I'll babysit your kids,
your kid, and he would molestthem with his boyfriend.
And now this asshole is on thestreets now with an ankle
monitor and the governor ofAustin thinks it's a fucking
great idea.

Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
Yeah, no, it's not a great idea and that that was one
of the issues that we that Ihad personally is later on.
You know there was a three year, three year assignment in that
unit and in the beginning, youknow, it was just low level DUIs
and you know, maybe petty theft, you know crimes or whatever,

(01:10:04):
maybe somebody got in troublefor some dope or something, just
real low level stuff.
You know first timers, um.
But then later on we startedputting um, uh, child
pornography people on and thatreally really bothered me.
It really bothered me because Ialways read the reports.
You know cause.
I want to know who I'm dealingwith.
You know.
I want to know I mean any ofthem, all, all the people that
were on my program.
I wanted to know who I wasdealing with, like what happened

(01:10:24):
.
You know what the what thesituation was.
So the first few times I wouldstart reading these reports on
these, you know, these childpornography, and they're very
explicit.
You know they give all thedetails of what's on the videos
and this and that, and Icouldn't do it anymore, like I
couldn't read through it.
So I would read the report upuntil the description part.
I'd skip over that and then I'dgo, you know, read the rest of

(01:10:45):
it, because I couldn't get thoseimages out of my head and it,
it, it bothered me, like reallybothered me, and it bothered me
that we were putting these guyson this program and the guys
that were trying to meet up withyou know 14-year-old, you know
boy or 14-year-old girl, youknow that they did sting
operations on, then we just goand put them on an ankle monitor
.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
Oh, that's fucking pissing me off.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
Oh, it made me so upset Like I almost left at that
point.
I think that was the part of mycareer that I just really was
just disgusted with the wholesystem, you know cause they were
so they were.
It felt like they were soworried about how many people we
hadn't cut.
Like they were trying to keepyeah, they were trying to keep

(01:11:27):
everybody out of jail that theywere willing to sacrifice.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
you know, just, I mean Well, because at that point
it becomes a moral conflict.

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
It was a very for me it was a huge moral conflict
cause I had to go in thesepeople's homes.
Oh, I mean I had was a very.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
For me it was a huge moral conflict because I had to
go in these people's homes.
Oh, I had to.
I mean, I had to see I couldn'tdo it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:41):
Yeah, oh I mean I had to, I had to get myself my head
in a different space right andand I actually like, I mean, I
had to like, I had to like talkmyself into being able to talk,
you know, professionally let'sjust say professionally.
I'm getting fucking pissed offright now because, like I, I
totally get it yeah, and it was,and you know it was like I mean
, some of these guys would havethousands of pictures and videos

(01:12:05):
, like thousands, you know, andthey were just just disgusting
fuck man, fuck, this is.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
uh, I know, right before we started filming I was
at, I was telling you, when Ihad my daughter, my job changed
for me, because then I startedseeing child molesters in a
different, worse light than Iwas already seeing them.
But now it's almost becomepersonal.
Did you experience the samething?

Speaker 3 (01:12:33):
Oh, 100%, yeah, 100%.
From the time that I left thefirst time when I didn't have
kids and I came back and I hadkids at that point, um, you know
, I mean, obviously I was oldertoo, you know more life
experience, and you know I wasprobably, I was probably more
patient.
I think you know, because ofhaving kids too, you know I was
more patient with people.
But yeah, you look at.
You definitely look at certainpeople at a different light and

(01:12:56):
and you perform your job alittle bit differently too.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
By the book, by the book.

Speaker 3 (01:13:01):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean, you're not.
You know you're like.
You know, when you're youngeryou're more apt to like, maybe
you know, yeah, and when you'reolder and you have kids, you're
like okay, Less poker.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
Yeah, exactly Like fuck it.
How difficult is it to attemptto remain professional when
speaking to a monster like that.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
It's very difficult.
It was very difficult for me.
I mean, I really had to likereally get in my head and, like
I said, force myself to speakprofessionally and I probably
almost speak more professionallyand very business-like and
almost like no emotion, becauseI I was afraid like if, if the

(01:13:46):
emotion came out, I was gonnalike be like you're a piece of
shit, yeah you know so now we'redealing with those individuals.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
Did you notice that their demeanor was more like
softer?
No, they're fucking entitled.
Oh, they had an entitled, ohvery entitled oh yeah, very
entitled, I've been sued by afew of them.

Speaker 3 (01:14:05):
Yeah, very entitled, like you know.
Why are you treating me likethat?
You know I can't believe I haveto have an ankle monitor on,
you know, oh, fuck.
Like just very entitled, whichis it's crazy to me.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
You just reminded me of something.
I was working in the hospitalone time when I was a young
officer and the MA needed to usethe bathroom, take a dump in
the hospital, and I had the doorcracked and I was standing in
the doorway and he's like, hey,can't you shut the door?
Can I get some fucking privacyaround here?
And I looked at the dude's file, fucking L&L with an under 14.
I said you didn't give thatlittle fucking girl privacy,

(01:14:38):
motherfucker.
And then we kind of got at it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:40):
Well, there's no sense ofprivacy.
There's no sense of privacy injail is what I say.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
Right, wow, you're taking me back.

Speaker 3 (01:14:50):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and when you guys did thehospital, you guys always had
two people right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
Correct.

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
Okay, so that brings me to so we never had two people
.
In the hospital.
No.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:15:04):
What about?

Speaker 2 (01:15:04):
after AB 109?
Still no.

Speaker 3 (01:15:06):
No, only if it was like a two officer move
individual.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
No, that's how an escape happens.

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
Yeah, high risk, something like that.
Oh yeah, we had escapes, yeah,but yeah, no, I mean.
So it's like you can't even goto the bathroom.
Because I don yeah, um, butyeah, no, I mean.
So it's like you.
You can't even go to thebathroom because I don't want to
use the same bathroom as, asyou know, somebody who's sick is
using and so the bathroom islike down the hall, you know, I
mean and you can't.
So what do you really really,really really have to go, well,
I mean they're cuffed up to thebed and I would just tell the

(01:15:33):
nurse look, I gotta go to thebathroom there.
I mean I would make surethey're all you know know they'd
be ankle, you know cuffed.
I mean they weren't goinganywhere but I'm like, hey, I
got to go use the bathroom.
Sorry, you know Damn.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
I didn't know that was a thing, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:44):
Yeah, it was, I mean very rarely, so when would they
go In town, like is there ahospital?

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
Yeah, local PD or sheriffs like good working
relationships.

Speaker 3 (01:15:57):
We were the sheriffs.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
No, I know.
But the ones on the streetslike did you guys have good like
rapport?
Oh, there was always the youknow Beefing.
Oh yeah, okay, always yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:06):
But yeah, but I mean no for the most part everybody's
.
You know good people.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
Man, I hate that we went down that path of talking
about what we did, but I meanit's not pretty.

Speaker 3 (01:16:16):
No, it's not no.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
Would you recommend the field of corrections to
anyone that's not in itcurrently?

Speaker 3 (01:16:23):
You know before, I would have said yes all day long
.
Now I just don't, I don't know.
I mean, you know it's still agood job in terms of you know,
actually even the benefits inretirement aren't even that
great anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
2.5 of 57?
Yeah, I was going to say, yeah,it's't even that great anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
2.5 of 57.
Yeah, I was going to say, yeah,it's not even that great
anymore.
So probably not.
Probably not, you know, untilwe have a change, until whoops,
until we have like a, you know,until the the public and and law
enforcement gets seen back intoa positive light again.
Yeah, I would definitely say no.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
You mentioned law enforcement in a positive light,
Because for a while it got putin a really bad bad light due to
the mainstream media thatnobody watches anymore, Because
they realized they were feedingfucking lies to the people.
Where do you think we're at nowas a government, as a country
with law enforcement?

Speaker 3 (01:17:18):
I think it's starting to.
You know, I feel like thetide's starting to turn a little
bit.

Speaker 2 (01:17:24):
Barely huh.
It's not there yet.
I feel the same way.

Speaker 3 (01:17:26):
Yeah, it's not there yet, but I think it's starting
to turn.
And I think that's what happens.
Is that the you knowpoliticians and you know even
the local, you know our localagencies.
They get all this pressure, youknow, and they just feel like
they have to, you know, be thepuppets and do what they're told
, or do you know, so that theylook, so that we look good.

(01:17:47):
You know we look good on paper,and yet it's putting everybody
at risk.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
Meanwhile, the world, the world's, burning down.

Speaker 3 (01:17:53):
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, it's, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
What do you think will cause the change?
The support from the public,the corrupt leaders being held
accountable, or the newer staff?
God, I love the newer staff,but they break my heart.
The newer staff actually risingto the call.

Speaker 3 (01:18:16):
I think, I think all three, but I think the public.
For me personally, I think thatthe perception that the public
has has a huge influence.
But, yeah, obviously, gettingcorrupt people out of government
, for sure, you know.
And then, yeah, new staff, whoo, I can't imagine being a.
I can't imagine being a COright now as a young, you know

(01:18:41):
young CO, especially with the,just the generation, you know
it's different.

Speaker 2 (01:18:45):
But the worst part about it, man, is there's nobody
with experience left.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
Right, right, and that's what happened with us is
that, you know, a lot of our oldtimers that were really really
good, they all started retiringand we weren't replacing them,
you know, and so we had thisinflux of just a ton of people
leave and then a ton of newpeople come on, and so there was
more new people than there wasold people, and so, yeah, I just

(01:19:11):
, you know, our training justall went to shit.
Personally, I mean, I think youknow training they were pushing
.
I felt like they were Give hugs.
Well, and they were pushing, youknow, the trainees to go out
onto the floor on their ownsooner than they were ready is
what I felt like.

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
Oh, you know what else was.
A big one was and I rememberthis the verbal de-escalation.

Speaker 3 (01:19:37):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
The way that the administration hampered that in.
They did it all wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:19:40):
Can you please come out of your cell?
Worse than that, oh, can youplease.
When they're getting punched inthe face saying can you please
stop hitting me?

Speaker 2 (01:19:46):
Yeah, exactly, and it's like hey motherfucker.

Speaker 3 (01:19:48):
Yeah, exactly, oh yeah, I mean like back in the
day you and everybody would goin there, come out.
You didn't have as manyproblems.
And now you have these guys andthey're.
You know you're negotiating,You're here.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
Let me give you a candy bar, you know Can you
please elaborate on when it'stime to stop talking and when
it's time to start action?

Speaker 3 (01:20:20):
Yeah, after three times.
I ask you.

Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
I mean more from like self-defense, imminent threat
use of force policy yeah,absolutely.
Because you'd be surprised Someyounger staff.
They're so freaking scared ofgetting fired, they would rather
take a punch to the mouth, andthat's the thing I mean, even
some older staff.
Correct.
Oh fuck, yeah, 100 know hasgotten that way.
All right, I'm done bashing thenew staff, but yeah, it's the

(01:20:43):
older staff as well.

Speaker 3 (01:20:44):
Absolutely.
I mean because I startedfeeling that.
I mean, I started feeling thattowards the end of my career and
I kept thinking to myself I'mgoing to get fired for doing my
job, for doing what I have beentaught.
You know, I'm going to getfired for that and I don't want
to lose everything I've workedfor.
I don't want to, I don't wantto lose it and I just figured at
that point I would just leave.

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
What year was that?

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
2020.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
Plus, there was COVID too, so you were short to
retirement age and you decidedto walk away.

Speaker 3 (01:21:15):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
Did you type up a letter of resignation?

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
Yes, yeah, I left on good standing.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
Me too.

Speaker 3 (01:21:20):
Yeah.
And was that a hard decision tomake, I think, with COVID if
COVID probably hadn't hit, Iprobably would have stayed
longer.
I think it was the combinationof that, you know, because I
mean just the way that you knowthe.
I mean having to wear a maskfor 12 hours a day, and you know

(01:21:42):
, I could have an inmate in thecar with me and not have a mask
on, but as soon as I hit thejail we had to have a mask on.
You know, it just didn't makesense to me and I was really
starting to feel myself startingto buck the system, to buck the
system, and I knew I was goingto probably get myself in

(01:22:04):
trouble.
Um, because sometimes I, youknow, have kind of vocal about
things.
So and then just, you know,just dealing with inmates Like I
, I don't, I don't likedisrespect and you know so if
you're disrespectful to me, youknow, just female version of me,
yeah, yeah, so your your vocaldid.

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
At any point in time you let your superiors know like
, hey, this isn't even makingsense, oh yeah bullshit.

Speaker 3 (01:22:25):
Yeah, not, I mean like my sergeants and stuff, but
they didn't you know they'rejust kind of just like whatever,
yeah, we gotta do what we gottado when we're told.
You know right and you know,and so yeah, I mean it, I I
didn't.
I was afraid they were going tomake me get the shot which.
I didn't want to get, and youknow the testing.
I'm like, I'm like I'm not evensick.

(01:22:46):
Why do you all need to?
You know, you don't need to putanything up my nose.

Speaker 2 (01:22:50):
I want to get philosophical with you.
Okay, you mentioned we got todo as we're told, right?
Then I think about Nazi Germanyhow that was able to happen.
At what point does somebodydraw a line in the sand and say
you know what?
No, we're not doing?
That you think it boils down toeach individual's integrity,
values and moral belief system.

Speaker 3 (01:23:09):
I think so yeah, I was going to say it's probably
on an individual basis because,you know, one person may be able
to take something longer thananother person can, or one
person's moral encompass mayknow encompass maybe not quite
what mine is, or you knowboundaries or whatever.
You know it's just at whatpoint I had to ask myself you
know, is my mental health, myphysical health, worth this?

(01:23:31):
You know at what point is moneyworth it?
You know it, it just didn't.
It didn't seem like it wasworth it anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
The juice was not worth the squeeze, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:23:43):
Yeah, and so you know , and I was a few years away
from collecting my pension, so Iwas like, were you doing the
math?

Speaker 2 (01:23:48):
I'm sure you strategize.

Speaker 3 (01:23:49):
Oh yeah, I was doing the math.
I was like I could ride thisout.
You know, I got to move out ofstate.
I have to move from the state,you know did you initially move?

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
Yes, okay, because that's what I was going to ask.
I don't want to ask too manypersonal questions, but I would
like to know your planning,because a lot of people are
still stuck on the job but a lotof people want to get out, but
don't know how to get out.

Speaker 3 (01:24:07):
Yeah, it was a—I'm not going to get too into the
personal details about it, buteverything just kind of aligned.
Okay, you know.
So you know, at first I wasfighting, moving out of state,
and then everything just kind ofcame into alignment and I was
like this is what I need to doand it all just fell into place.
Like everything fell into placeand I mean literally by the

(01:24:29):
time I, when I made my decision,when I officially made my
decision, to the time I left wasonly a couple of months.
I mean, I mean, I got up andgot out.

Speaker 2 (01:24:39):
Were there?
Others that left as well?
Oh yeah, there was, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:24:42):
We had a whole, a whole influx of people leave.

Speaker 2 (01:24:46):
It was like an uprising, huh.

Speaker 3 (01:24:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:48):
Damn.
How about the morale?
What was the morale likeamongst the troops?

Speaker 3 (01:24:53):
Probably the same as most departments.
You know, yeah, what morale.
Yeah, yeah.
It's pretty I mean, yeah, it'spretty.
I mean it's pretty bad.
I the worst times for moralewas when we were getting
mandatory overtimed on a dailybasis.
I mean they had a sign-up sheetso if you didn't sign up on it

(01:25:14):
you were going to get.
You were voluntold, you know,or like you were.
You could sign up yourself andpick a good spot, pick a good
spot.

Speaker 2 (01:25:19):
if you, you know or like you could sign up yourself
and pick a good spot.

Speaker 3 (01:25:20):
Pick a good spot if you wanted, you know.
Pick a day or time, you know aday that you wanted.
Or you could just get mandatory.
Well, but you could getmandatory any day, any day of
the week.
I mean it didn't matter.
I mean people were like zombiesand that was an unsafe time.

Speaker 2 (01:25:38):
What were the hours of a double shift, like 12?

Speaker 3 (01:25:43):
Well, we did, yeah, we did, you know, 0700 to 1900.

Speaker 2 (01:25:47):
No, I mean how many hours total were these shifts?

Speaker 3 (01:25:50):
Well, you can do 16.
16 were the most.
Yeah, 16.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
Would it be 16, 16, 8 , or can you do three 16s in a
row?

Speaker 3 (01:25:59):
They probably wouldn't.
I mean, I'm sure there's peoplethat did it, but I think they
had a cap.
I don't think they would dothat.
But you would get forced onyour day off, basically.
So you'd have to work a 12 houron your day off.
It wasn't just being on the daythat you're there, no, you had
to come in on your days off.
So we worked three 12ves and arotating eight um at the you

(01:26:33):
know, towards you know, or thesecond part of my career, um, so
I'll actually in the first partof my career.
But, um, yeah, you got to comein on this day, like, well, I
have a vacation planned, or youcouldn't get your whole vacation
off.
You know, you booked your tripto Hawaii or whatever.
And they're like oh yeah, wegot all the days off except for
this one right in the middle andthey would like hold you to
coming in.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
What happens if you didn't?

Speaker 3 (01:26:53):
We had people quit.

Speaker 2 (01:26:55):
People quit.

Speaker 3 (01:26:56):
Yeah, there was people that quit People quit.
Yeah, there was people thatquit.
They were like fuck this, Likeyounger people, you know, that
kind of were just like fuck this, I don't want to do this.
You know, you promised meSaturday, Sunday's bill.
Yeah, it wasn't even Saturday,sunday, it was just like you
know.
I mean, they took a legitvacation off and they're like,
oh no, sorry, you can't havethis day off.
Yeah, oh shit, yeah I likethose ones that come in and

(01:27:17):
they're like I want—.

Speaker 2 (01:27:17):
You are violating my safe speech right now.

Speaker 3 (01:27:19):
Yeah, the ones that come in, they come on and
they're like what?
I don't have Saturday andSundays off.
The first five years of mycareer I didn't have a holiday
or a Saturday and Sunday off.

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
I had 16 years and my days off were Tuesday,
Wednesday, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:31):
I mean, which I didn't mind.
Actually I didn't mind becauseback then it was fun.
The weekends were the fun time,you know.
That was when all the goodstuff was happening, All the
drunks and stuff were coming in,oh shit.
You know, but yeah, it wascrazy.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
With all your experience and looking back in
hindsight, what would you tellif you were like a brand new
officer?
All over again.
What would you tell yourselfOverall in life?

Speaker 3 (01:27:56):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:27:58):
Meaning you know, as it pertains to the career.

Speaker 3 (01:28:02):
Um, whoo, I would definitely say, make your health
a priority, like for sure,cause that's where I definitely
neglected, you know, was myhealth, I think.
I mean I, I mean I stayedactive, physically fit, but I
just, I just think, like,overall, the stress, you know,
the stress of everything, um, Ithink, took a toll on my body.

(01:28:24):
In fact, I know it did you know?

Speaker 2 (01:28:26):
Facts.
Facts no I can relate.

Speaker 3 (01:28:29):
Yeah, so yeah, that that definitely.
I would say definitely, yeah,take care of yourself, you know,
and and the job here's a here'sa thing, you know, some people
get so into their job.
You know what I mean?
And it's good to have good workethic.
I'm not saying you know, nothave good work ethic, but I mean
, that's just like that's theirwhole life, you know, and

(01:28:51):
there's more to life than yourjob, and when you leave,
nobody's going to.
It don't matter, like you'rejust a number, you're just a
number, you're just a body.
When it comes down to it,they're going to replace you.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
Not just that, it's like, hey, you need to not make
the job your life, because whenyou leave, you're going to lose
your identity.

Speaker 3 (01:29:08):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:29:16):
And for men that's especially, I think especially
hard, for men more so thanprobably women.

Speaker 3 (01:29:24):
There's a lot of female viewers that watch this
in corrections.
What are some tips about them?
Sending personal boundariesamongst male inmates.
A big thing for me was Iactually my uniforms were not
tight.
Say that again, please.
My uniforms were not tight.
Do not wear tight clothing.

Speaker 2 (01:29:39):
These nurses be dressing like they're going to
the club looking for dick.

Speaker 3 (01:29:41):
No, disrespect, no I mean, and I have a lot of makeup
on today, like when I went towork I didn't wear very much
makeup.
I mean because they notice ifyou change your lipstick,
they'll be like, oh hey, co, yougot a new lipstick on today.
What the hell?
I ain't even seen you you knowlike you know it's, it's crazy,
like how much you know.
I mean, that's all they have istime to study you.
So, yeah, you know, just youknow, yeah, definitely set your

(01:30:04):
boundaries, you know, don't letanything slide, because if you
do, they're going to push.
They're going to push Just likeI mean even with you know, like
even with, I'm sure, with maleofficers, same thing you know,
they're going to see how, how,how much they can get.
Um, yeah, Makeup for me, youknow, I mean it's okay to wear a

(01:30:25):
little bit of makeup, but youdon't need to look like you're
going to the club, um, you know,tight clothing, stuff like that
.
You just don't want to drawattention to yourself.
You want to be professional andso I like I always I mean I
look totally different inuniform than I do out of uniform
.
Like, I have my hair in a bun.
I mean, you know, I don't wearmy hair down because I just
think that that is one.

(01:30:46):
I think it's unprofessional too, I think it's something they'll
grab onto, and so I always wearmy hair in a bun.
And, yeah, and just setting yourboundaries.
I mean you have to establishboundaries and that comes a lot,
I think, with just having thatcommand presence, Because that

(01:31:07):
right there is going to scream,you know, hey, you know we don't
want to push with her, you know, and when you are physically in
shape, you like come offdifferently than you know.
So staying in shape is a hugething too.
I feel like it's.
It's a huge part of the job andit's something that I used to
tell my kids.
I used to say, look, I have togo to the gym because it's part

(01:31:27):
of my job, it's going to keep mesafe, it's going to keep other
people safe.
So I just like included that aslike, this is part of my job,
or working out, whatever it was,whether I was running, whatever
I was doing, you know the time.

Speaker 2 (01:31:38):
So Was it tough to balance motherhood and that
career.

Speaker 3 (01:31:42):
Oh my gosh, yes, I don't even know how I did it.
I look back and I don't evenknow how I did it.
Like I don't even know, Likeit's a blur and I'm like I yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
And we all do it for our kids.
Oh yeah, definitely.

Speaker 3 (01:31:54):
Oh, yeah, I mean, I worked crazy hours when I didn't
have my kids, you know, so thatI could try to work as much as
possible.
You know, and just you know.
Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:32:04):
Well, I want to thank you for coming on the show.
Was there any last word youwant to say to the crowd?

Speaker 3 (01:32:09):
Not that I can think of we covered everything.
Yeah, we covered a lot of stuff.
Yeah, definitely.
So again, thank you for flyingout here and sharing that
experience, flying out here andsharing that experience I
appreciated that Absolutely.
It's been a pleasure.
Thanks.

Speaker 2 (01:32:20):
Well, there you guys have it, folks.
Another banger for you guys.
If you like what you saw, makesure you hit that subscribe
button.
Love you.

Speaker 1 (01:32:35):
Keep pushing forward.
I'm here, hector's legend,incredible, living life Raw,
never been tamed, from the hoodto the pen.
Truth entails pen.
Hector Bravo, unhinged.
Story never ends.

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