Breaking Bad: Inside the Mind of an Undercover Cop

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hector Bravo.
Unhinged chaos is now insession.
Welcome back to our channels,warriors.
Today, another banger back toback.
We have a guy that was a formerupland police officer,
undercover narc, that did allkinds of operations ontario pd

(00:25):
and would eventually go be lawenforcement in arizona.
Man dude has a full resume.
His name is daryl.
What up, daryl?
What's up, man?
Thanks for having me, thanksfor making that trip out here.
Dude, I didn't know you weregoing to commute yeah, it wasn't
bad bro.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Once I get on that freeway, start going west yeah,
it's a nice ride on the eightright there from where I'm at.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Oh yeah passed by the imperial valley, el centro
valley el centro all the waythrough.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
What is it, julian, and the mountains and everything
.
It's nice right there, dude,all those ranches.
So where did you grow up at,dude?
So I was born in glendora,california, okay, um, I lived
there until I was about three orand then my dad wanted a bigger
house, because I have an oldersister and a little brother, so
we, we moved out to the inlandfrom there.
So you're the middle child,middle child Out of three.

(01:08):
Out of three, okay, yeah.
So we moved out to RanchoCucamonga, which was a pretty
established area, but my dadbought a track.
He found a track of homes.
There were two story homes inthe older part of town, so it

(01:30):
was a new build.
Story holes in the older partof town.
So it was a new build, but,like in the video, kind of yeah,
you know, um, that's where,that's where I grew up at, from
there, from like five years old,all the way through my early
college years, where'd you go tocollege at?
So, uh, my first year I playedat chafee college.
Uh, I was a pitcher, playedbaseball with junior college
ball.
Then I played at citrus for ayear another community college
ball.
Then I played at Citrus for ayear, another community college,
and then I played at Universityof La Verne for two years,
which is a D3.
Wasn't the best student, butwanted to pitch, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
How were you academically in?
High school and in college,terrible, terrible, yeah,
terrible, mediocre or okay, haveyou heard the expression seeds
get degrees?
Never heard that expression.
Well, that was me, bro.
I was just doing enough to playball.
Now, is that because youweren't applying yourself or
because you found the?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
material difficult.
I wasn't applying myself.
Okay, I just was not interested.
Man, I just wanted to playbaseball, yeah, and I thought I
was going to be a pro ballplayer one day and not thinking
like, well, if that fallsthrough, what else are you going
to do.
So you didn't like think pastthat.
I had like all my chips werestacked on being a pro ball
player.
Okay, I was throwing hard whenI was younger, I was hitting the

(02:36):
90s and then I hurt my shoulderin college and then I'm like,
all right, well, baseball got myfoot in the door at Laverne
because they wouldn't let me inwith my grades.
My grades were not good enoughto get in there.
It's more of like an Ivy Leaguetype of school.
So played one year there,realized okay, my arm's hurting,
I'm not going to go play proball, so what am I going to do

(02:58):
now?
So I ended up finishing mybusiness degree there.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Was it one injury or a series of prolonged injuries?

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Was it one injury or a series of prolonged I can kind
of remember the one time I felta pinch man, oh man.
You know, and me and my buddywere playing catch and he's
getting further and further away.
We're actually at Newport Beachand there's a big grass field
at Balboa and we're trying tothrow it all the way across this
field and I remember justletting one go as hard as I

(03:22):
could.
I remember like somethingdidn't feel right, you know.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
And then I go back to practice the next day and I'm
like oh man, like I think I Ithink I might've partially torn
something, so I played aroundwith trying different arm levels
and everything like that, butit was how old were you at that
time?
I graduated high school when Iwas 17.
So I was the way my birthdayfell.
It was in september, um, Ithink it was 19 you were 19.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
What about when you injured your arm playing college
?
Uh, sports in college, about 20, 20?
How did that make you feelmentally?

Speaker 2 (03:52):
it's.
It sucked, dude, because it waslike you're used to.
You're used to being able tooverpower batters and stuff like
that.
You know, you're used to beingkind of like the man on the
mound and now all of a suddenyou're having to find different
ways to finesse and where yourarm don't hurt, I tried throwing
down from down here, triedthrowing different angles, and
my shoulder was still hurt.
So it was like there was a gearshift going on in my head.

(04:13):
Now, like what am I going to donow?
I had put everything inbaseball.
In hindsight it's kind of silly.
It's like the percentage ofpeople that make it to the pros
is pretty small right?

Speaker 1 (04:23):
no, it's not silly like I really want to know, like
at the age when you put allyour chips in one basket and
you're passionate aboutsomething and then you know an
unfortunate, because it's notuncommon, right?
A lot of people encounter thesetypes of situations.
Um, did it devastate?
You did it like take you out ofcommission, or were you able to

(04:45):
focus?

Speaker 2 (04:46):
I was able to focus.
Yeah, I mean I.
I had some, some times where Iwas like I'm gonna miss baseball
, you know, yeah, um, but theway I was brought up, my dad and
my mom were always right thereand encouraging me to that's
good to jump into the next thingyou know my dad did like I said
.
He did uh air force 30 years atuh mcdonald d, no Air Force for
a couple years, yeah, and thenworked at McDonald, douglas and

(05:07):
Boeing as a mechanic.
So he always instilled thatwork ethic in me.
So I knew not to sound cockybut I knew like, whatever I
chose to do, like I'm going togo hard at it you know.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
So you just got to make a shift.
You have to make a shift atthat point.
Yep, 100%.
And what shift did you decideto make?
What was your next eye on theprice?

Speaker 2 (05:23):
So I still didn't know what I wanted to do and
everybody's telling me hey, ifyou get a business degree,
that's a very versatile one.
You know, you just get thatdegree and that piece of paper
and you get your foot in thedoor you know wherever.
So I'm like all right.
So I made my way through, gotthe business degree and during
this time, before I finished thedegree, law enforcement started
coming to my head.
You know, I grew up in an areain Rancho Cucamonga called the

(05:47):
Dog Patch it's the older part ofthe area.
There's a serenity gang there.
They're not big numbers, butthe sheriff's department was on
my street like every other daybro.
Ghetto bird every night Foughtpursuits through my backyard and
I remember seeing those guysand thinking I just like the way
they look in uniform, I likethe way they carry themselves,
you know, and it was intriguingto me and I thought, given my

(06:08):
background and growing up whereI grew up, I could excel at this
you know, yeah, because I'm notcoming from like some rich
neighborhood where I've neverseen a crook you know, like I
grew up in it and I could havewent one way or the other I mean
, there's a time when being acholo looked kind of cool, you
know like it.
So I I started really gettingthat law enforcement idea in my
head.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
So at the time?
How were those sheriffsconducting themselves or
carrying themselves like likeassholes or like professionals?

Speaker 2 (06:36):
um, so this was this would have been my memory of it
was probably the mid-90s, yeah,yeah and um, they weren't
assholes, but they weren'ttaking no shit either, you know
like oh, that's a good then,yeah, they like they.
they carried themselves acertain way.
I don't remember seeing any fatcops.
I don't remember seeing anydirty boots, you know, shiny, uh
, gig lines straight, all thatstuff, you know.

(06:58):
And then that's appealing to mebeing a kid.
And then I remember knowingfriends that had dads and they
were cops or moms or cops, andthey made a decent living from
what I could tell.
You know, I didn't, I didn'tcrunch the numbers, but I'm like
you know what.
I think I could do this andprovide for my family and I
think I could be good at it.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
From your perspective and experience, why do you
think law enforcement has gottenaway as a whole from looking
fit, looking sharp, lookingclean, cut and presentable?

Speaker 2 (07:31):
I think a lot of it has to do with hiring standard.
I mean hiring standards andtrying to trying to just fill,
fill spots, you know.
I mean some agencies are tryingto get their sworn numbers up
to a certain number, right, yeah, so they're.
They're hiring, they'relowering their standards little
by little, and then some peopleare passing training they
probably shouldn't have passedtraining and the next, you know,
year after year, you have thatcycle and now you're like what?

(07:54):
What the hell happened to thedepartment like this used to be
a bunch of pipe hitting typedudes.
Now we got a bunch of dudesthat look like the pie eating.
Type of dudes yeah, yeah, I wasgonna say michelin man them too.
Yeah, but I think it was pipehitting to pie eating dude,
right, and then, and then youknow california specifically,
you start to see like copsgetting in trouble for things,

(08:16):
right, and so a lot of the goodguys that are probably, I think,
that are thinking about gettinginto it, they're like I'm not
gonna go do that, right, I'mgoing to get sued and lose my
house.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Or go to end up in fucking prison.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Or the ones that were hard chargers.
They take the fight out of them, absolutely.
They didn't take it out of me.
I kept going hard the wholetime.
You did yeah, because I know Ican justify whatever I'm doing
cross that bridge when we getthere um so at what point did

(08:47):
you apply and what agency didyou apply first?
yeah, so I applied for basicallyontario and upland at the same
time.
Okay, in 2010 I'm sorry, theend of 2009, end of 2009 um had
ontario actually hit me up firstand I went did the oral board.
Um, I had smoked marijuana toorecent for their three-year
cutoff.
Um, I think I smoked like twoand two and a half years prior
to that I'd smoked I don't know,with a polygraph part of that

(09:10):
examination that was, but no,that was just in the oral.
I admitted that the oralinterview and that's before the
polygraph or is there even apolygraph in these?
yeah, there is.
Yeah, that's at the very end,though.
Okay for for us, um.
So they said hey, you know, youlook Everything's good on paper
, but the marijuana uses is toosoon.
So I waited and then all of asudden, upland popped up as
hiring and it was the.
It was the perfect timing isthe three years had passed, okay

(09:33):
.
So I applied for Upland, uh,took the test score.
Back then they had the uh.
They'd give you a T score forthe post pellet B test and I got
a high score on that.
And I got a high score on that.
I studied my ass off on thisthing, the one thing I actually
ever tried for academically.
I got a police exam book fromBarnes Noble.
I studied the hell out of it.
The chief then at the time hesaid I had the highest score

(09:55):
he'd ever seen.
So next thing, you know, Ipassed the physical agility test
and I'm in the academy.
April 2010.
April 2010.
Where was the?

Speaker 1 (10:03):
academy, April 2010.
April 2010.
Where was the?

Speaker 2 (10:08):
academy located.
Most agencies in that area sendtheir trainees to San
Bernardino County Sheriffs.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
San Bernardino County Sheriffs.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yes, Frank Bland Training Center.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
And is that a mixture of different agencies going
through a pipeline?

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, so the sheriff's department basically
owns the training, but the localagencies send their dudes
through there do they keep thedifferent agencies separated or
they're all mixed?
You're all mixed you're all me,I mean.
They even give you tan andgreen.
They don't care if you're a pd.
Oh really, you're everybody'stan and green.
They'll let you put yourshoulder patch on where you're
from, but really to everybody'stan and green until later on,

(10:41):
like basically almost swearing,you'll start to give to wear
your blues if you're a PD.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Did it appear, militarized the academy?
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, dude, we formed up.
Mind you, I got a couple tipsbefore I went.
My dad's a buddy who's in theMarine Corps.
Okay, we're in formation andI'm waiting there like what the
hell is going to happen.
I'm waiting for them to comeout yelling.
They threw like three flashbanggrenades right in the middle of
all of us.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Really, because 2010, america was still normal at
that time yeah.
It didn't start going crazyuntil 2012.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, kind of put my eye on it, it started getting a
little weird.
Yeah yeah, those flashbangswasn't off and I'm like shit is
I mean the yelling like in yourface, spit going in your eye
like hardcore?

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Were there a lot of candidates.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
I want to say we started.
I'm going to probably screwthis number up.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
I mean you don't need a number, Like I mean, when you
look around, there are a lot ofpeople.
Yeah, there was a fullformation, bro.
It was probably 60 people information, okay, so a lot of
people, yeah yeah, anybody quit,oh yeah, out of sheer weakness
or fear, because like, hey, youknow what I realize?
This ain't for me.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, there's quite a few the next day that didn't
come.
Yeah, they didn't come back,you know, and I think they had a
gut check because you'rethinking it's a 23-week academy,
right 23-week academy.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
How many fucking months is?

Speaker 2 (11:59):
23 weeks, dude.
I told you I'm not good atschool, hector.
I think that's like six.
Six months, though, orsomething like that right there,
like almost six months?

Speaker 1 (12:12):
yeah, no way, bro.
Are you getting paid a paycheck?
Yeah, you're getting paid.
Well, most people are.
Let me ask you this, so I knowthat you can.
A person can put themselvesthrough an academy right and
then another one the the agencysponsored you to go through
right.
Is that what you were goingthrough?

Speaker 2 (12:22):
yeah, I, I was sponsored by Upland, pd by
Upland, but there was a fewdudes that were putting
themselves through and are yougetting paid any type of
monetary?

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, I'm getting paid.
From who?
From Upland, pd, yep, the cityof Upland.
And you're getting paid what?
Like academy pay scale, it'snot quite if you're going to be
going through some shittyexperiences Especially for a
dude like me.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
All I was doing before was jig sporting big five
, sporting flipping burgerswhatever.
So that's what got me through,is I'm like I can get yelled at
for $27 an hour.
It's an incentive, can't hit me.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
They probably could hit you but yeah, yeah, they
probably could.
But I'm thinking like I can dothis.
You know the yelling.
They can only yell so much.
So yeah, it was a goodexperience, man, yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
How was the driving portion for you and did other
people struggle In the academy?

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, driving.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Don't you got to do like this little circle?
Yeah, you got to do a pursuitcircle.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
They have a skid pan where you All that.
Don't you got to do like thislittle circle.
Yeah, you gotta do a pursuitcircle.
They have a skid pan where youall that you finish, you learn
how to over correct for uh, foruh what do you call it when
you're slipping on the highway,correct?
Yeah, you learn how to overcorrect on that.
You get a little like a littlemock pursuit right, I didn't
have any issues with it whatabout the firearms portion?
I was good at that.
I never shot a gun.
Um, I mean a couple times withmy dad out in blythe, you know,

(13:47):
in the desert, but like neverreally been officially shot.
So I didn't have any bad habitsyou know, oh, that's a good
thing, so yeah, right when Icame in, we had a uh, the
corporal was the range masterand his name was corporal
warfield.
all right, this was a, a former.
All due respect, sir, if you'rewatching um former Marine named
Corporal Warfield, hard mofo,dude, like he was good.

(14:09):
I mean, he just had it likejust squared away, you know.
So yeah, I picked up all thethings they were teaching me and
I just applied them and I wasprobably one of the better shots
.
I didn't get top shot, but Iwas up there.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Were there a high attrition rate?
Were there still a lot ofcandidates remaining at the end
graduation?

Speaker 2 (14:30):
I think we probably lost like maybe half the class.
God damn dude.
Yeah, yeah, and that's the wayit needed to be.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
I mean because you know Now overall as a whole.
I mean you're learning post,you're learning penal code
tactics.
How much is being embedded inyou that the job you're going
into, the line of work is nojoke and your life can get?

Speaker 2 (14:54):
lost.
It was a daily thing.
They're hammering into you.
I mean they'd walk up and turnyour ear and say what are you
still doing here?
You're going to get fuckingkilled out there Just trying to
see what your reaction would be.
Right, this ain't a joke.
When you get out there, youknow, right, some people would.
That would break them down.
You know they start realizingall right, because some people

(15:15):
are going in for the paycheck,you know, or the status, to look
for the badge bunnies orwhatever.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
I'm though like I'm not even knocking those guys for
quitting, because, hey, atleast they realize 100, yeah,
fucking this ain't for me, man.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
I respect that more than just faking it and getting
out there and now you're gettingsomebody hurt, getting hurt 100
, you go hide you go hide andyou don't go to the call and you
know stuff like that.
So facts, dude.
Yeah, did you ever see any ofthat?

Speaker 1 (15:36):
oh yeah, cops that hide we had cops circle calls.
We used to call it they circlewaiting for someone else to get
there first so I have a theoryif I was ever a chicago pd, I
would just hide behind a7-eleven and just wait till the
shooting was over.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
You said the auto's on there day on your video.
That's where all the all thewhite people are.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah, bro, I was busting I would just fucking
post up somewhere, man, and theyjust go clean up the mess
afterwards.
Yeah, my yellow tape, and thenthey call that shy rack over
there.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
That's a whole different.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
That's a whole different ball yeah that's a
strategy that I would approach,yeah, so yeah, we had guys do
that, though I bet dude, I waswanting to be there first,
because I'm like no, I get it ifchances are.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
If some fun's gonna be had, it's gonna be had by the
first dude who gets there,correct, you know?
So?

Speaker 1 (16:17):
yeah, and what was your first?
Well, how long is your fieldtraining as a upland PD officer?

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Let's see there's four phases, I believe.
Four phases, four phases Eachone's like 16 weeks is the FTO
field training.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
What are the phases?
They take off the trainingwheels as you go along.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah.
So first phase is I mean you'relearning everything from the
computer system, the paperwork,I mean the city, it's a lot.
I mean you're learningeverything from the computer
system, the paperwork, I meanthe city, it's a lot.
I mean you're getting it's likedrinking through a fire hose,
as they say.
You know, some FTOs won't evenlet their trainee drive until
like a week or two in.
They're like no, you just sitthere and mess with the computer
.
You know like figure out what.
Learn how to talk on the radioDoes sound new, you know.

(17:01):
So yeah, I was lucky.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
I mean my first training officer was a beast
dude.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
Like he set the tone for the rest of my career, no
doubt.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
That individual Like a mentor type of somebody to
look up to.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, his name was Marcus Simpson.
I'll never forget man.
He was a San Bernardino PD.
He was up one before, went toSan Bernardino PD, which is hood
, san Bernardino, san Bernard,which is hood, and everybody
like san mernodino, sanbernardino, yeah, but san
mernodino murdered, you know,yeah, yeah, we used to call it
the dirty boo, but, dude, theylike 100 homicides a year.
I mean, oh, absolutely, westside verdugo, all that stuff you

(17:34):
know.
So he had been in like threeshootings over there, um, I
think, killed all three of them,paralyzed another.
Like he had been in all kindsof stuff, so he was showing me,
like, how to actually do the job, like we're not playing games
and like, oh, go, take 20statements that you don't even
need like no oh so he just, hecut out the bullshit, cut the
bullshit out like heymotherfucker, this is what you

(17:55):
need to do to survive and getthrough your day.
This is what you need to do tosurvive this.
He wrote great reports, youknow yeah articulate use of
forces, and all that, and he setthe tone for everything for me.
Dude, you got lucky bro yeahyeah, and most people don't have
that opportunity.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, so yeah, and I had good ftos pretty much the
whole time now, how difficult isit to because this seems like
it'd be difficult, man,understanding where you're at
getting on the radio, knowingwhat cardinal direction you are
yeah, how difficult is that um,it was difficult and I was in a
smaller town, you know.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
So the fear is is like you don't know where you're
going sometimes.
What?

Speaker 1 (18:33):
do you mean by?

Speaker 2 (18:33):
that it's like you're in a residential street or
something.
Right, You're not on one of themain boulevards and you were
unfamiliar with the residentialarea.
Yeah, because you would studyyour hunter blocks and all that.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
But they wouldn't let you use the map on the computer
, so you had to memorize kind ofwhere, where the east, west and
south dividers are what wouldbe considered a hundred block, a
main route yeah like a mainroute, so like, let's say, uh,
foothill and euclid, that's adivider for the town a hundred
blocks start breaking up eastand west as you go opposite
directions 100 east, 200 west sothat helps you kind of get in
the general area where you gotto go right.
Now, at that time, were thereany tricks or tips that they

(19:10):
taught you?

Speaker 2 (19:10):
guys, there was like a street guide that you could
use, but I mean, unless you hada photographic memory and like
had it all down it would justtake time.
You just got to get used to ityou know, yeah.
So that was my fear is like I'mnew and if somebody's crying out
for help it's gonna.
I mean, that was my thing isnot being able to get there in
time and help somebody not likethe call can wait, you know,

(19:32):
officer, time can handle thecall.
Enough time passes, that callis gone.
But if, if, uh, if a partner isscreaming out for help, like I
wanted to be there, so, but Igot it down, I drove.
I used to drive around on mydays off, you did, I lived.
I lived in the neighboring city, rancho, and up on about like,
but up to each other.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
So so you used to, on your own time, familiarize
yourself with the area Yep, andI think that's the difference
between people that excel inwhatever they're doing or not.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
It's when they take their own time and dedicate
something to a craft.
Yeah, yeah, I would drivearound man, and I would even
look for good stops and stuff.
I'm in my own car.
I can't pull them over, but I'mjust like getting used to kind
of looking around.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
So cool man.
I mean like I totally respectand understand that, especially
because you're utilizing yourgas money, but if you think
about it, that's the type ofshit that'll keep you alive and
your partner's alive yeah, andthat's all I cared about was
that.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
And just being a good dude, so your partners can
count on you.
Right, that was everything.
I didn't care about rank, Ididn't care about any of that.
I just wanted them to know hey,if I need Daryl, he's going to
be there.
I never set out with one day Iwant to be chief.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was never my aspirations.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
I just wanting to go out and work hard and then be a
good dude, be a good partner Iwanted to ask you another
question about the area um, yousaid you said officer time or
the calls will go away.
Is there any calls that justcontinue to pester where they
don't go away?

Speaker 2 (20:59):
and they just continue to call the dispatch
and be like, yeah, there's,there's a.
There's those types of callsthat'll little noise complaints
typically.
Man, which one noise complaintscomplaints?
It's usually some crazy ladythat hears a cat on a roof or
something you know, and so Iwould try to get them to come
outside because I'm like I'mpretty sure they're high, right,
right, if I can get them comeoutside, I'll balance them out.
I'm gonna take them to the,take them to the big house you

(21:22):
would if're high, becausethat'll stop them calling the
cops.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Even if they're high in their own house.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
If they come outside, they ain't in their own house.
Oh shit, bro, you know what Imean.
It's you're in your own publicnow.
So, like they got kind of hipto that trick, you know.
So they wouldn't come out, theydid.
Well, we, they would callconstantly.
And finally, yeah, I'm likethis chick's on dope man like no
, she's not, she's crazy.
So one night she invites us inand you, under the influence of

(21:48):
a controlled substance, youcan't even be in your own pad in
california I didn't even knowthat drunk I didn't know that
yeah, drunk in public you can,but under the influence of
controlled substance, so methheroin so basically, nobody can
be under the, under the um, theinfluence of a controlled
substance.
If, if long, like I wouldn't gothere just to come knock on the
door like hey, are you high?

Speaker 1 (22:09):
but if I'm right, because the probable cause and
fucking.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Fourth amendment if I'm there on for a lawful
purpose, you know.
And she said come in.
I'm hearing this and I'm likechecking the attic and I'm like
what's the charge on that 11 550?
Health and safety code 11 550.
You use that in the in right.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
You're legit, I don't know, bro.
We just fucking left them inthe cell.
Hufflucker's high, don't letthem out.
Cap the cell.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, I feel you.
Yeah, Problem solver, yeah, soI'll never forget.
I'm like this lady's high andthey're like no, no, no and dude
lady.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Now we're probably thinking 2011, 2012, the time
frame at about this.
Yep, this is before prop 47 andall that bullshit.
Okay, before prop 47.
Now, what about mental healthand homelessness?
Because, as you can see, rightnow it is fucking zombie
apocalypse.
Yeah, back then it wasn't, huh,or was it from what you were
seeing in the square?
It's worse now it's.
Was it prevalent?
Was it around?
Was it a thing?

Speaker 2 (23:05):
when I first started um, the mental health, didn't?
It was mostly junkies, bro,like it was we had.
We'd have our the stereotypicalhypes, right, or tweakers.
That got those, uh, heroinaddicts, yeah, yeah on the black
.
And then we got tweakers.
They were, and then every nightuh-huh, yeah, dude, he's.
He got on a bike at night,three in the morning, yeah, but

(23:26):
that's what I'm from brawleymight as well just throw them
the cuffs and have them hookhimself.
Um yeah, yeah, brawley, yeah, Iknow exactly.
Um yeah, so and then we we didrun into some weird stuff every
now and like spice every now andthen because you first hit the
smoke shops and people weresmoking it.
I drive upstream with some dude, butt-ass, naked walking, just

(23:47):
that PCP stare.
And I'm like I only had a yearon.
I'm like, hey, paul, whatever,I got a guy naked in the middle
of the street so I'm parking, heproned out.
But I was thinking I'm going tohave to tase this naked dude,
Did that?

Speaker 1 (23:59):
agency have a partner .
Because some agencies don't havepartners, right?
Yeah, we run solo, one per car.
Okay, what's your take onwhether a person rides solo or
does not ride solo?
Hey guys, consider becoming apatron, where you will get first
exclusive dibs on the videobefore it airs to the public and
you'll get to ask the guestsspecial questions that you have

(24:20):
in mind.
So that's also another way tosupport the channel.
Thank you, guys.
Appreciate all of you.
Keep pushing forward.
Make sure you hit that link indescription below I can see
pluses to both.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Man.
I mean, um, well, the goodthing with the two-man unit.
Every now and we do a two-manunit and we call it a felony car
.
So you weren't going to calls,you were just proactive, going
to try to find parolees at large.
That was a big thing.
I don't even know if anyone'son parole anymore, but oh, it
doesn't nothing.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Nothing matters anymore.
There's no more laws.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
Here in california we'd have a list of pals you
know at large and we go look forthem and um, so we go two man
on those.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
So it was nice having your back there right away, all
right, but if you get a partneryou don't like, it's like bro,
the time frame you're talkingabout is so weird, because it's
like hey, you actually see aparolee at large, you do the
right thing and you book them,and then you fucking oh dude,
yeah, now it's that, doesn'thappen anymore.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Sad man.
I'll tell you this we had adude that was always a pal, so
I've seen him.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
He was a pal so I think now in 2025, if you have a
parolee at large, you just givethem a gift card to walmart and
then you yeah, yeah, let's saythat they call it the hug a thug
program.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
I don't know what the fuck it is, man, but that's
literally what they do I can't,I I can't even wrap my head
around that dude, like that wasall we were looking for, because
they're gonna run a prolethat's upscouting like that
dude's gonna take off, you knowwhat race, ethnicity?

Speaker 1 (25:40):
what was like the breakdown um where I was at?
Yeah, gang wise, yeah upuplands gangs was.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
They only had one homegrown gang there.
There was, uh, upland ghosttown, I believe, or upland
outlaws, and they were reallylow in numbers, man.
But what?
What ethnicity?
What Hispanic?
Hispanic yeah we had some nazilowriders too that lived up in
the in the higher up area, butthey had already locked it up by
then.
I think, there was a couple ofbig name guys that I ended up
looking up later and you stopthem and they're OGs.

(26:10):
They'd put you up on game andtell you about stuff, but that's
all I would use them for.
They weren't doing anythinganymore.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
So at what point did you become aware of the NARC
group?

Speaker 2 (26:30):
So when I first started, when I first got on my
own, I'm just trying to like I'mwriting tickets at first.
You know like, oh, stop sign,sarge is going to be happy.
Look, I turned on the stop sign.
Do you ever have angrycustomers?
Oh yeah, because you startwriting fix-it tickets, dude and
window tint and your, yourpersonal car's got tent, you
know like so we stopped doingthat, because they come

(26:50):
complaining.
Well, your cops got window tentyeah so, um, I, shortly after I
finally got my feet wet, I'mlike all right, I need to.
I need to hone my, my scope ofof focus in here spirit of the
law versus letter, exactly, andI need to go after what.
I started this for right.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
So I started looking around for tweakers and um I
mean, anybody could spot one,and you know, was there any
satisfaction from taking atweaker off the streets, um, or
did you just see it as a jobduty?

Speaker 2 (27:20):
there was because I worked graveyard.
My first, almost my wholepatrol career at uppland was
graveyard.
So one or two in the morningyou see one of these dudes on a
bike.
That's a burglar.
Is it a burglar though?
Potentially Okay, you might bepreventing a burglary, true, you
know what I mean.
Or door handle checking, orcopper wire I hear you Copper

(27:41):
wire was a big thing Catalyticconverters.
Catalytic converters, catalyticconverters, bro.
So that's why I looked at it.
And if you're in a busy citywhere your call volume's high
and you're getting some priorityone calls, you probably don't
want to be running all thesetweakers in, right.
But if there ain't nothing elseto do, there's only good guys
and bad guys out, run them inMakes sense.
And back in those days of theinfluence, arrests would put

(28:01):
them on probation.
Didn't even know that.
So if you got them twice, twoconvictions, they're on
probation.
Now they got search terms.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Now I want you to break down to me from a legal
perspective about the FourthAmendment, the right to
reasonable cause, probable cause, and then how that varies with
parolees at large.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Fourth waivers yeah, so I don't know if it's still
the same.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
No, but from your knowledge and experience.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Parolees had no rights and if they got stopped
on foot, subject to search, wedidn't even have to call their
agent and say, yeah, they gotsearch terms and no, you're on
parole, you've waived that right.
What I used to tell guys is youshould still be in prison,

(28:50):
you're just out here becausesomebody voted you to come out
here or whatever.
So they're they're, we wouldsearch them, research their cars
.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Um, yeah, they didn't have any rights, man what kind
of stuff would you find, uh guns, dope drop up rollies a lot
yeah, knives.
What would you find?

Speaker 2 (29:04):
so back then they had the penal code 120.
You remember that?
No, it was a prohibited weaponscharge.
So oh yeah, um that thatcovered everything.
So you dirk and dagger billyclub, you know, you find a
parolee um the cholo rollingaround with a little dodger uh
the little baseball bat dodgerbat.
That's bill, I don't know, it'sa billy club, could be Right,

(29:25):
correct.
So some guys would get creativelike that.
Am I saying yeah, and then alot of them get right back in
the game, man, I mean, theymight get a little better at
their hiding spot or somethinglike that, but they're going
back to what?

Speaker 1 (29:40):
they know, creatures of habit.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Creatures of habit.
Creatures of habit and you getout and you got no money and all
you know is a dope game, andyou know that you can go by and
flip a sack real quick to getsome money.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
Then you know, if a parole, during your experience,
if a parolee, was in possessionof a cell phone, do you have the
right to go through his cellphone Back then?

Speaker 2 (29:59):
yes, Okay, yeah, and we used to be able to search
phones incident to arrest also.
What does that mean?
So after they're in custody,yeah, so after they're in
custody you can search theirperson before you take them to
jail and all that.
Their phone we can search justfor them being under arrest.
And the law has changed andthey say now you need a search
warrant for that.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
For the parolees or for anybody?
No, just for anybody.
Hold on.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
So a regular civilian gets arrested?

Speaker 1 (30:26):
you were able to go through their phone.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Oh hell, no, back then yeah, no way no, and it
wouldn't really be needed,unless you're like working on a
sales case, right?
okay like if you're looking for,because payout sheets weren't a
thing anymore, like it was allthe drug transactions were on
their phone.
So let's say you got a sack ofdope at a scale and you're like
I think this dude's selling dope.
So you you hook them on thedope and then you start going to
their phone and seeing itsomebody's sending them up for a
dub, or then that would beevidence of sales right and you,

(30:51):
which is um, could be used asevidence in court yeah, yeah.
So we, I take, usually take likea still photo of the text and
then tag the whole phone inevidence and the da could, the
da could get all of it later on.
Damn yeah, that's how I startedcutting my teeth in the dope.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
I'm starting to see that man.
So what was the process ofgoing over to that dope unit?

Speaker 2 (31:16):
so the way I looked at it is uh, there's only two
spots from upland on that team.
All right, so it's ontario,there's only two spots yeah, so
two officers from upland go tothat ontario task force.
Okay, ontario was like the bigdog in town, right.
Okay, they're foreign sworn.
They had, they had black angels, they had plenty of ma guys
that came out of there, so itwas their team.

(31:36):
We were just there to to helpout with any uploads and any
issues in upland, and also wegot a piece of the asset
forfeiture if they got a goodseizure or what, whatnot.
So what I did is I just put myhead down and just kept trying
to get as many dope hooks as Icould, because I'm like you want
to be a traffic cop, writetickets.
You want to be a dope cop, bigdope arrest, you know yeah and
gang you know we used to getgang enhancements and anything

(31:59):
we could try to do um, so that'swhat I focused on man I wanted
to lead or interest with dopearrest and um flipping
informants and figuring outwhere it's coming from, all that
.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
So yeah, so, five years on, I got a chance to test
for that five years on, you gota chance to go over there.
Is there a selection process?

Speaker 2 (32:18):
yeah, so there's a, there's a panel, it's uh to
ontario brass.
Uh yeah, brass or narc cops orthere was I, I don't know that
term.
Brass is like a bad word.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
Now, dude no, not brass.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Brass I hear what you're saying upper management
yeah, I mean brass yeah, yeah, Ithink there was two sergeants,
honestly so two sergeants andthen a upland lieutenant, if I
remember right.
Okay, and um, yeah, they justask you questions in there, like
kind of what your experience is, what have you done to prepare
for this?
And I'm like, well, and I'vemade this, I already knew how
many dope cases I've made,probably heard of you through

(32:53):
word of mouth.
Yeah, yeah, and then I'll neverforget.
They asked me like what, what'sone word to describe yourself?
And I'm like damn, I didn't.
That's one thing I didn'tprepare for, like it was weird
and know I'm like um chameleonyou fucking said chameleon
they're like they're likechameleon.
I'm like, yeah, because like Ican morph into anything.
I need to be like you know, ifI'm going to recover, I could
change color, that I'm like Iwas like trying to justify that

(33:15):
stupid one word answer, bro, andthey were like they liked it.
Yeah, but I'm like we said oneword, not one animal, bro, or
one reptile chameleon bro, Ilike it I don't know where that
came from or why I said that man, but yeah, I just flowed out.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
So so it was a competitive process.
Like you were going heads upagainst other candidates yeah,
there was.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
There was quite a few people that were they were
testing for it.
Um, I kind of set myself apartjust because there's people
testing for it, like I'm notgonna get'm not going to get it.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
They're always going to get it.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Like, okay, he's been crushing it, but they would put
in for it.
Okay, probably just in case Igo bomb the interview or
something you know, yeah, no, Isay chameleon, and they just get
this guy out of here bro.
Yeah, so he's also a good dopecop.
We both got it.
Oh, that's cool, dude, I wasbest man at his wedding, that's

(34:05):
awesome bro.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
It's like the movie.
End of Watch.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah, exactly bro, Yep.
So yeah, I was stoked, man,when I got that spot, because
your whole life changes.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
So, as a police officer, you're wearing a
uniform, correct.
When you go to the NARC unit,what are you wearing?
Plain clothes now, I'm sure youwere reporting to work at
Upland police station prior.
Yeah, so yeah.
And now where are you reporting?

Speaker 2 (34:38):
So now I'm reporting to an office.
Ontario PD has an offsitelocation Don't be giving up?
No, they did.
It's actually not there anymore.
Okay, so I can talk about it.
It was fun.
It was called the zoo the zoo,the zoo, the zoo.
What the zoo I mean.
What can you tell?
Can you tell us about it?
yeah, so you know safari land,like the company that makes uh

(34:59):
sam browns and all that.
So there's a safari landbuilding in ontario that's got
the zoo printer all around thetop, like um, giraffes and all
kinds of animals.
So there was a bay that the pdpaid for.
That was they called the zoo.
That's where all the narcs went.
No one's supposed to know it'sthere.
I think over the years someoneleft the bay door open and
probably seen us dressing out,putting on our getting ready to

(35:22):
go to sleep.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
What did it look like inside?
Like a warehouse.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah, it looked like a warehouse.
So you pull in and there'sparking right here there's like
a table that we'd go brief at.
Oh, it's like Den of Thieves,bro.
Yeah, exactly like that.
And then we'd walk upstairs andthat's where our little desks
were.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
You guys had desks.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Your little desk where you keep your caseload.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
You have lockers or gear equipment.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah, there was lockers downstairs.
We kept all our equipment inour car, though, really.
Because, sometimes we'd have tohit a warrant on the fly and
you'd throw your vest on andyour helmet.
Any workout helmet and anyworkout equipment in that zoo.
No, no, straight prison bro.
Burpees push-ups in there,though no, I'm just kidding at
the station.
At the station they had.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
They had a gym, yeah.
So yeah, were you guys gettingany workouts at the zoo, or he's
just always so busy and on thego.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
We were on the go a lot, a lot, a lot, and then back
in those days it was kind oflike, you know, there was a lot
of older dudes on that team andthey weren't really about the
lifetime fitness you know olderas in like crusty seasoned,
salty bearded yeah, but likegood though, like still like
that.
Oh, I get it you know what I'msaying, like bosh yeah type of

(36:31):
fucking for sure, I watch a lotof cop shows bro yeah, dude like
like that, like that type ofold, old dude you know, like
that had been around and been ina whole bunch of shit, had been
uc before in their time so dwere you a cherry like a new guy
.
Oh yeah, in their presence yeah,so my first day I get there,
man, and I'm like so my buddywent down, the same guy that got
it from upland.
Yeah, he went down six monthsbefore me Because they were

(36:54):
still waiting for another spotto open.
Okay, so he got there.
He already knew some people andeverything.
Man and I walk in, I don't knowanything and I'm pulling in
there and I'm like trying not tocrash because the cars are all
parked in here and they had oneof the starters.
He looked like Clint Eastwood,so it's just intimidating
walking there.
You know, everybody else haskind of got a little bit of
facial hair already or long hair.

(37:14):
I'm like trying to startgrowing a beard, but it's like
not really you know growing outyet, so I still look like a
straight cop, you know.
So yeah, the first few days werepretty intimidating, and then
you think you know like you'recomfortable on patrol, right?

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Like.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
I know what's up with this.
You know like I'm ready to goup with this.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
You know like I'm ready to go well no, you don't
know shit, because it's a wholeanother learning curve.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
What is the learning curve like?
Developing cases from theground up?
Okay, like so.
So me I'm like see bad guy,stop, bad guy, right.
Oh, dope in the car.
These are more like hey, thishouse, we got a tip, this house
is selling dope.
We got to do some surveillance,we got to get a car stopped out
of there, we got to see what'sin that car.
So we flip them and get thehouse dirty.
So we get a warrant.
So it was more.

(37:56):
It wasn't just roll up and hitit.
You know you gotta put sometime into it.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
So if we know that the drugs are coming from mexico
, right, and you're a narc copin the ie inland empire, what is
your ultimate goal?
As far as the bad guy?
How high up the chain are youtrying to go?

Speaker 2 (38:16):
As high as you can.
I mean because back in thosedays so we had it was a
street-level team but we had atask force officer with the DEA,
so if you got a certainquantity on a bus on a search
warrant he could actually writefor a wiretap.
I want to say the cutoff backthen was two pounds of meth and
10 pounds of weed.
I forget what the heroin cutoffwas.

(38:38):
If you got a seizure above that, you could start to try to
develop a wire investigation.
So you just keep following itup as high as you can, you know.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
As a NARCOP street level?
Did they reach a certain pointwhere you now have to hand off
information to the DEA and theytake over?
Did they reach a certain pointwhere you now have?

Speaker 2 (38:57):
to hand off information to the DEA and they
and they take over.
No, we, uh, we never got tothat point.
It seemed like they were happyfor us to just handle shit
locally.
You know, the DEA offices outthere were pretty busy dealing
with, like the border stuff.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Okay, Um do you guys talk to the left hand, talk to
the right hand?

Speaker 2 (39:15):
Not.
Not on that street level team,really at all.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
No later on I'll get to that, but that street level
team was so street level, streetlevel cop, uh, street level
narcs um, there is probablyknown drug houses, or even a
regular civilian can be like ohyeah, I'm pretty sure my
neighbor sells dope.

(39:37):
I always see fucking people onbikes go in and out To the narc
cop.
What is that?
Is it a target?
What is that in the chain ofimportance or what does that
fall in?

Speaker 2 (39:54):
It would depend on, kind of like if we had anything
else going on at the time.
But if we got a tip like that,we start working it from the
ground up.
I mean, a lot of the local, alot of the patrol cops are
probably like yeah, that's dopehouse bro.
You know like this bike'scoming in now there.
So we'd probably put a littlesurveillance in it.
We'd we'd run plates, see who.
They come back to the house allwhole boys on parole.
Cool, I don't even need awarrant, you know, I would just

(40:15):
go hit the house on a parolesearch.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
So let me ask you this so is there?
Wait a minute.
If there's a house and aparolee enters that house, does
that give you access to thehouse?

Speaker 2 (40:22):
if he lives there.
If he lives there, we haveaccess to everywhere he has
access to, okay, which is damnnear everywhere, right, because
he's in the kitchen, he's in thebathroom, right?
Um, so that that would be acase.
Sometimes we would do um.
We had we had 12 to 15 guys onthe team back then, so 12 to 15,
and we had street level dopevice.

(40:42):
We had um, were you vice, ucfor vice?

Speaker 1 (40:48):
I wasn't a vice detective, but I went uc on vice
yeah, and how did you prepareyourself for the role for
undercover, um, for the vice,yeah, like, how did you prepare
yourself for undercover?

Speaker 2 (41:00):
so you read books, watch documentaries well, I've
seen, you know, I've seen themovies that we've all seen, you
know, like donnie brosco and allthat kind of stuff, but I
didn't read anything.
Man, like, I went um when Ifirst got there.
I wanted to to contribute tothe team.
You know, I didn't have anyinformants, I didn't know what I
was really, what I was doing,and I remember they were saying,
like who's interested in goinguc?
I'm like who's interested inbeing a breacher?

(41:23):
I'm just volunteering foreverything right, and I'm like I
the way I grew up.
I grew up in a diverse areawhere I've been around solos,
you know, um, I've every, I'vebeen around everybody.
So in my mind I thought I thinkhe could be good at this, you
know.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
So once my beard got a little longer, how long were
we talking Longer than what itis right now?

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, it's like down to here Doesn't even look like
me.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Were you portraying to be a Mexican gang member or a
biker, or what was your that?

Speaker 2 (41:51):
was the weird thing for me, bro, because I'm half
Mexican, right, so I could fitin with both, but what I went
for was like a biker look.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
You're half Mexican.
What's the other half?

Speaker 2 (41:59):
My mom's Mexican, my dad's white.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Okay, yeah, I can kind of see that now that you
mentioned that.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, and I got dark hair and all that.
So once I grow my beard longand I grew my hair out, I would
get a dirty-ass long-sleeveHarley shirt with oil stains on
it, some baggy-ass pants, somebeat-up Chuck Taylors.
And then, my first time out,they sent a guy with me.
They'd already been out acouple times and he looked like
a paisa.
So we go hit the park and we'rewalking around.

(42:27):
Oh they, let us get a prop.
One of the props we get to takewith us is a tall can and a
pack of smokes.
So of course we go get the talkin and we get the whatever.
The strongest one is, you know,211 or whatever and we're
walking around.
So that helps take the edge offtoo and what helps take the
edge off the booze.
You're drinking alcohol on theop.
Yeah, we're allowed to drink abeer on the on the uc op hold on

(42:52):
, hold on as an undercover cop.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Nart you can, you're allowed to consume alcohol.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
I didn't even know that yeah, the policy says I
think one beer so you said prop.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
When you said prop, I thought it was an empty beer,
like a tall cat.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Oh, yeah, right yeah, that was the running joke, is
they?

Speaker 1 (43:10):
let's go to some props, but they weren't like
they weren't actually probablyme and on your jokes, bro.
That's why I'm asking you thesequestions?

Speaker 2 (43:16):
no, we would actually stop on the way, dude, and get
like 7-eleven, yeah, or thedrive-thru dairy, get a tall can
of whatever beer is right there, get a pack of marlboro reds.
I don't even know how to smokea cigarette, you know, so I'm
not even inhaling or anything,but so you start walking around
the park and just kind of noone's seen you there, right,
like no one's ever seen me forsure.
The other dude had went to UC acouple times in that park and

(43:39):
so I'm trying to undercover ismore of a mindset than really a
clothing.
Anyways, you know, if you walkout there and you're all stiff
and all that, yeah, lookingaround.
It smells like bacon in this,motherfucker.
You know like.
So I just kind of walk aroundwith a little swag and you know
whatever.
So my buddy goes uh, he speaksspanish fluently.
So he finds some other likepaisa guy.

(44:00):
Um, he's like, hey, who's ondeck for um, scante or whatever
you know.
He's like you got to go overthere on the other side of the
park, so we start making our wayover there.
Well, now we get in the areawhere there's some.
There's some like somegangbangers, you know, and those
are the ones that are on deckwith the dope.
So I'm like my, uh, my partner'slike hey, bro, I'm done with my
beer, lady wanna.
I'm like, yeah, I'll take it,drink is.
And then, um, so they come,walk up to us and this dude I'll

(44:25):
never forget he's an obs guy orhe might.
You know he was a black angeland he had the horns tattoo on
his forehead and everything.
He said, hey, what are you guyslooking for?
I said, let me get a 20 white.
He's like all right, give methe money and I'll go down the
street and grab it real quickfor you.
I don't know where I came upwith this.
I'm like nah, fuck that dude.
Last time I got burned you know,I don't let my money walk Like

(44:57):
I was all right.
So he walks to this house, getsthe dope, comes back and sells
it to me.
So now not only do we have himhand-in-hand with the man, but
now we have that house dirty,because that's where he went and
got the dope from.
So we went and served a searchwarrant right after that at that
house, how long after theysecured it almost immediately

(45:19):
Secured, meaning right after Iwalk away and I'm wearing a body
wire with my partner.
I get on there and say, hey, wegot a good deal $20 worth of
crystal, All right, cool.
He went to 314 East PhillipsStreet to get it.
So we're going to go securethat location, freeze it and get
a search warrant.
Freeze.
It means like everybody stayswhere they're at Knock on the

(45:46):
door, detain everybody while wego get a search warrant?

Speaker 1 (45:48):
What happens to the individual that sold you the
dope?

Speaker 2 (45:51):
We went 10-15.
We took him to jail.
At what point?
Uh like right away.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
They even sent a mark black or white, and they kept
snatch him up oh, okay, yeah,well, like I want you to, I want
to know the process yeah, soonce I do, uh, once I put out
that it was a good deal, thenthey the the mark, so you walk
away, get far enough away getback.
But then now let me ask youthis man, because now they know
your face and now they know thatafter you bought that dope, the

(46:18):
cops came and swooped.
Doesn't that burn your cover?

Speaker 2 (46:21):
that's why, for every , every other op that we're
doing like if it's a searchwarrant or we wear ski masks,
now I might be burned for aminute at that park just because
you know I got to do with theblack beard is the one he's blah
, blah, whatever.
But um, so we we'd like let itchill out for a little bit and
then we come.
We'd go to another park,because there's plenty of parks

(46:42):
where you know they're sellingdope and we'd start was it only
parks where that we would sit inucs was typically parks.
I did do a cold knock at a houseone time.
A cold knock meaning a house,one time A cold knock meaning me
and my partner walked upbecause we heard this house was
selling weed.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
And it was a low-level weed sale house, so
the supervision was okay with it, because normally you wouldn't
just walk up to a dope housethat doesn't know you.
They're like who the fuck areyou doing here?
So we knock and we're buyingweed from this guy, like who
sent you you?
We knock and we even buyingweed from this guy, like who
sent you?
You know, you make up somefucking name.
Uh, luis, luis, who I don'tknow, dude, fucking Luis said I
can come back here and get somechronic.
So we did that once, buttypically it was at parks.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Now I would be under the impression that if I was a
drug dealer from my location, Iwould know who's who and I would
have regular customers.
I mean, if I didn't ever knowyou when you approached me, did
you ever get that type of vibewhere they're like who the hell
are you?

Speaker 2 (47:38):
a lot.
Yeah, I got.
They're like hey man, you a cop, or like you know they're doing
like they ask where you're fromyeah, a lot and I would.
We would have a story kind ofmade up.
Yeah, like hey, I'm, I'mactually not from here, dude,
I'm from la puente.
I'm out here visiting my aunt,you know know, and just trying
to score.
I got some, I got this chick.
I'm trying to take the hotellater, you know.
And you just start kind ofbuilding a story, a rapport with

(47:58):
them.
And you know right off the bat,we wouldn't just start asking
for dope, We'd kind of sit there, drink a beer, just kind of
build a little rapport, and thenthen you get to the point where
you're like hey, so you knowyou, you know where I can get
some shit.

(48:18):
What about sketchy situationswhere you get pressed by gang
members?
Yeah, so I'm trying to thinkthere was one again.
I look back now and I was neverscared when I did these.
But now I look back and I'mlike some of the decisions I
made I'm like I should haveprobably been a little more
scared than I was, you know.
But we had one.
Um, I had been on the team fora couple years already.
I was the the most experiencedUC NARC on that team and we had

(48:39):
a lady cop join us on our unitand they wanted me to take her
out her first day to go buy dopeand I'm like all right.
I was confident enough to whereshe could just kind of be quiet,
act like my girlfriend orsomething like that.
So we go to a park and we siton a table.
Some guy walks up to us andstarts making small talk with us
and we I'm like, hey, do youknow where I can get some, um,

(49:01):
some white?
He's like, uh, I don't everseen you guys around here before
.
Yeah, you know, I'm not.
I'm not from around here.
I play the story up.
I'm here visiting my aunt, andthis is my old lady and I go to
the side.
I'm like, hey, I'm trying totake her to the hotel, a little
bit dude, but she wants to gethigh first.
He's like, oh, all right, allright.
So he's like, give me a minute.
So he walks away.
Some other dude walks up.

(49:21):
He's like, hey, I don't.
And, um, he looked like at onepoint he might have been a cholo
, but he's washed the fuck upnow like he was all shot out
looking yeah he's like you guysgot 30 seconds to get out of
this part.
I've never seen you fucking herebefore.
And I'm like I was like allright, bro, you got a soft watch
or what, because I ain'tfucking going anywhere.
And then he walks away and I'mlike we'll see how this plays

(49:42):
out.
You know like, because we had acover van you see cover vans
all around, so if it goes downthey're gonna come in.
And he walked away and justnever came back.
So I called his buff.
Well, the dude the initial dudewent, came back with dope and
he did the same thing.
He walked the surveillanceunits, watch him walk to a house
, get it, come back, sell it tome.
And then now we had that houseprobable cause on house for

(50:03):
another search warrant, you know.
So yeah, it's fun, man, whenyou start doing stuff like that.
Did you ever personally?
enter the houses yeah, that,that first one I was telling you
about, um, where the uh, theobs gangster sold me it.
Yeah, I helped serve the war onthat.
I threw my bali clove on suitedup, they didn't have enough
guys for the stick to.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Yeah to hit it.
What are some?
What are some?
Some things you see inside of adope house skills, money,
weapons you see, I mean a lot ofthem.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
The ones we went into were just pig size and like
just trash everywhere like atweaker pad, okay you know,
because these guys are sellinglike lower level amounts of dope
, right.
So, uh, we'd see like doggy peepads on top of clothes and
that's fucking disgusting bro.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
I bet it smells in there yeah, sex toys, bro sex
toys yeah, wow I mean, it's youever see anything so fucked up
where there's actually like kidsliving in these fucking dope
houses?
No, I, I've been fortunate,I've never seen one I'm sure
there are kids, it happens,living in fucking dope house
yeah, there hasn't been any likeon scene when we've hit it.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
That's a good.
You know, you see kids, toysthere and stuff, so you're like
you know there's kids here atsome point.
Right, it's fucked up you know,but yeah, dude, there was,
there was sex toys all overthese places.
One time I took one and um youknow that you know ar bag dump
pouches yeah I threw one a dildoin my buddy's dump pouch.
He didn't even notice it.
He went all the way back to thestation.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Oh fuck I'll be pissed, bro.
He's like oh hell especially ifI grabbed it without a glove
dude.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
Those types of things were like normal pranks back in
those days really yeah, nowthey probably call hr and get me
all wrapped up in a case orsomething.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
But how many would you say?
During that time frame thatarea had a drug problem yeah,
definitely, definitely.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
They had cleaned up prior to me getting there.
They had put a dent in the gangproblem big time so they put a
dent in the gang problem.
Yes, yeah, they what the rico xwe go?
Yeah, they hit them with.
It was called operations wingsclipped.
You heard of it.
No, what or what was that oneabout?
I want to say it was 05-ishOkay when they were targeting
the Black Angels, because, asfar as I know, ontario Black

(52:22):
Angels, oh, I did hear about.
I mean, I don't know details,but I did hear about that and I
don't know a lot of detailseither, because I wasn't there
yet, so I was just kind oflearning as I went.
But they wrapped.
They wrapped up a whole bunchof big homies, because Ontario
for a while had the most MAmembers it's hard to believe out
of all of Southern California.
But Daryl Castorhom wentdisappearing, ronnie Baiza, tupi

(52:42):
, there's a whole bunch of them.
So when they hit that Rico, thewhole gang thing just kind of
shut down.
What about King Cobras?

Speaker 1 (52:52):
King Cobras, the gang I haven't heard of them.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Okay, they're from that area, Hispanic, yeah.
Yeah, I haven't heard of them.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
For us it was OVS, which was like the minor leagues
junior black angels and thenthe black angels and you said
you served on a wire tap orsomething like that.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
What was that about?

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Yeah, so let's see that.
Yeah so, um, what was thatabout?
Yeah, so, let's see, this isgonna be about two years into my
assignment on that street levelteam.
One of the gang detectives saidhe had, uh info that, um, one
of the the ma guys uh, I cantalk about it now.
I want to say this case isclosed out but that his old lady
was driving around towncollecting taxes for for ma, so

(53:35):
we started doing surveillance.
Um, we his he was working withthe haida team, la haida, um,
they still hit a couple warrantswhere they're getting what is
that?
it's, uh, the high interdictiondrug trafficking area.
Holy shit.
Yeah, it's harder for me toeven remember, but yeah, it's,
it's just a, it's a task force,yeah, you know.
And um, so they got enough towhere they they're up on a

(53:56):
couple wires listening to gamemembers phone.
And so we would.
We would do surveillance onthis dude's chick driving around
and she would stop in all thehood spots, you know it was a
mexican mafia member's wife,girlfriend, girlfriend okay,
yeah, um, and he would.
she would drive around all thedope spots, you know so, and
collect money.
That's what we thought you know, Okay, I think in hindsight I

(54:21):
don't.
I mean, I'm pretty sure she was, but when we served paper on
the, we served a search warranton the on the MA guy's house.
We didn't get nothing.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
So it might've been.
Where was he?
Was he on the streets or was heincarcerated?
He was on the streets or was heincarcerated?

Speaker 2 (54:33):
He was on the streets .
Okay, yeah, he lived on.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
You guys found nothing.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Nothing, nothing.
And this dude was.
This guy was shot out man.
Like still on heroin.
You know, he still had that bigbroach on his stash, but he came
out of the house like an oldman, you know, and I'm like I
don't know if this dude's stillin the game or not, you know,
like I don't know, but all heractivities seemed like she was
out collecting taxes, you know,and they had some phone calls

(54:56):
and stuff.
I think that interesting, yeah.
Yeah, it's tough to say butit's funny because he's in that
book with, uh, the black hand,you know.
So some of the names of theguys I used to deal with are in
that book.
Interesting, yeah, so it was.
There's a lot of history therein the in the gang you know
world.
It started in the 1950s and carclub and then so yeah it's not

(55:20):
as not what it used to be

Speaker 1 (55:21):
though I always hear the term informant, right
informant.
Can you break it down to me inlayman's terms what an informant
is?

Speaker 2 (55:30):
so, um, you could have a signed up informant,
which is someone who there's acouple of different ways they're
signed up as an informant towork off a case, like on a
payroll of some sort.
Yeah, they're on the file ashey, if you provide us
information that results in aseizure, we'll get rid of this

(55:50):
case for you.
All right, it's usually got tobe either equal or more, All
right.
So let's say to be either equalor more, All right.
So let's say you got pinchedwith an ounce.
Whatever information you giveus has got to be at least an
ounce, and then we'll talk tothe district attorney about
getting rid of your case.
So that's one one we have.
We used to call them mercs ormercenaries.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
They're informants that just want money.
They're not fighting, they'renot working off any cases.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
They just want to get paid.
So they would get paidaccording to whatever their info
led to.
So that was that's now.
Are they previous or currentcriminals?
Yeah, yeah there's um.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
So like me personally I'm I don't have a fucking job,
bro like could I go to thepolice station and be, like I
want to be, a fucking informantman.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Basically, I'll be my own undercover, if you know
enough in my own head I thoughtabout doing that over there in
arizona where I was at, no, butuh uh, no they're.
They're plugged in still,because they people trust.
Plugged in, people trust them.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
Yeah.
So you said the first one, andthen the mercs.
Who else?
What else um?

Speaker 2 (56:51):
other than that would just be, uh, an informant you
talk to on patrol you know whatdoes that consist?
of so for me, one thing you gotto remember is if you're gonna,
if someone's gonna, give youinformation on patrol, if I'm
just a patrol officer, I have no, I have no access to department
funds or anything, right?
Um, you got to make it clear tothem and which.
What I would do is look, if youwant to give me this

(57:12):
information out of the kindnessof your heart, that's fine, but
I can't pay you.
I can't help you work off acase, right?
you're basically just aglorified neighborhood watch you
know, so, um, and some peoplethey're, they're good with that.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
You know now the cops buy them like a cheeseburger or
anything to kick them down, oris just now just strictly a bro?

Speaker 2 (57:31):
you're giving me information, thank you, yeah,
just strictly info, because thenyou kick them a cheeseburger.
The next week they want afamily pack of chicken or
something you know like it'sjust a question.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
I don't know what the process is.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Yeah, I never have.
I mean I'm yeah, I don't knowwhat the process is yeah, that's
the key if you're gonna work inperformance on a patrol level
like the movie training day, bro, you fucking.
Alonzo brings a toaster to theroad yeah, taking care of my
informers, he's locked up inPelican Bay or whatever.
Yeah, no, yeah, I'm sure that'sgone on.
You know I'm probably has.
But yeah, that was the onething that was real clear is, I

(58:02):
didn't want anybody thinkinglike this guy thought he was
getting something out of this.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
So I am huge on morals and ethics.
Huge, I have heard numeroustimes where there are law
enforcement agents that do notgive a shit about the
informant's life Meaning.
Yeah, we'll burn this dude'scover.
I don't give a fuck, knowinghe's going to result in death.
What's your stance on that?

Speaker 2 (58:26):
No, we didn't play like that, like at all, like
that was.
But do you know what I'mgetting at?
Yeah, yeah, and I have heard ofcertain teams uh, operating
that way.
But that was one of thosescenes with us.
It was like if there was anychance at all of burning this
informant, we just put the opdown.
It's just dope.
You know, like we, we get thisguy killed, you know.
So if we did um like, forinstance, if we did a ci buy, so

(58:49):
if we had an informant go to ahouse and buy dope from a house
and bring it back to us saying,yeah, I bought the dope from
there, their body wired upeverything.
Now we have probable cause tosearch that house, but we would
wait.
There's like a 10-day window,right, we get to get the paper
signed by the judge and we'dwait and by then more customers
will come through.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
And it's just.
You can't pin it on that dudeyep, and then there's a wall.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
You wall all that information off your report.
So it's it's not discoverableunless it's an in-camera hearing
.
So you wall off of thatinformation.
I'm sorry, not wall, the wordis hobs, hobs, hobs.
So you cut out like you'd havethe information for a probable
cause, but you'd cut out the buypart and it goes into a
separate, uh, sealed, uh, memo.

(59:32):
That way the defense attorneycan't get a hold of it.
The defense attorney cannot geta hold of it it has to be a
special in-camera hearing withthe judge, without the the
defendant not present, becauseis there ever mistakes?
I'm sure there is.
I mean, you know the courtsystem, I don't know, man.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
I oh, bro, speaking of fucking mistakes, man, did
you recently see on youtube?
You had a?
I think it just happened.
You had a judge, it was like azoom call, and then you had an
inmate and he goes hey, sir,before we get started, I just
want to say I'm an informant andthe judge is like oh wait, wait
, man, like he gave himself upand he was in jail.

(01:00:10):
No, I didn't see that.
The judge was like hey, dude,you're on a live video right now
.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Man, I didn't see that dummy.
He probably had a pc up afterthat.
Huh, mandatory, holy moly.
Mandatory, bro, it's just soeager to like proud of it hey
I'm an informant, I'm for it.
That's the difference, man.
Yeah it's, it's crazy man, butyeah, we, we went out of our way
to protect them.
You know, yeah, because one wayyou could burn him for sure is

(01:00:35):
like you tell him go buy dopefrom that dude and then, like
you, jam him up while he's withthe dude or something.
Does that happen?

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
No, we never did that Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Yeah, I mean, I think theoretically you could
probably throw cuffs on both ofthem and make it seem like,
because that's what I've seen inthe movies.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Yeah, the movies do that a lot.
We never did that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
And I don't know if other agencies do.
I just know like Ontario didn'troll that way you know, so that
was.
And then you build rapport withyour informants when they know
like, hey, we're going to do ourbest to keep you out of harm's
way.
There's never a perfectscenario, I mean because they
tell people the problem withinformants.
They'll tell their old ladylike yeah, I'm working with the
police.
And then they, she tellssomebody and from your

(01:01:17):
perspective?

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
do you believe these informants are doing it out of
the kindness of their heart orthey're trying to get time off
of their sentence?

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
charges dropped.
Well, the ones that are workingoff a case they're definitely
doing it to get their chargesdropped.
Okay, if they're working off acase, um, the other highly
driving force for these would begetting paid.
Um, the ones that are justcompletely doing out of the
kindness of heart no case, nomoney, no, nothing.
I mean, I think they probablyexist, but it's probably going

(01:01:48):
to be somebody who's more likelytrying to clean up their street
, like okay, you okay, you knowwhat I mean.
Where they?
They may not be really thatwell plugged in.
They might just be like this Ithink this house is selling, or
what is the career lifespan ofan informant?
Man.
We had one on the books, so Igot there in 2015.
There was one that was on thebooks since 95.

(01:02:09):
Yeah, he had three.
He had four hash marks on his.
I'll throw this out therebecause some people will know
what I'm talking about.
But yeah, they call this is healive?

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
I don't know man, I might have to bleep that out.
Bro, what are you still on thefucking?

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
no, I don't know.
I don't know, it's too late.
Force gump or something likethat.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Damn dude.
So you had mentioned an officerinvolved shooting.
When did that transpire in yourcareer?

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
So in 2012, I was still in Upland on patrol and we
had a homicide that took placein the southeast part of the
city, which bordered Ontario,and we didn't have a person of
interest id or suspect id oranything but, um, they, they
thought it was a gang relatedthing, and ontario came up and

(01:03:09):
and shot this dude.
so I'm over there, roamingaround that area where the
homicide took place it's noteven in my beat.
And I see I'm driving down thestreet and I see a dude on a um,
on a little bmx bike you bikepaddling with a girl, and I can
see the back of his head justblasted with the cats and he's
got the whole cholo getup man.

(01:03:30):
So he sees me and he dips downthe street and starts hitting
the sidewalk.
The girl goes somewhere else.
So I get behind him, I turn onmy lights and the pursuit's on.
So he starts dipping throughalleys, up and down north-south
alleys, eventually ditches thebike, gets out on foot.
So I get out on foot, pursuit ofhim.
He runs over two walls and thencomes to like a short wall

(01:03:55):
behind an apartment complex.
Well, I see him put his bikedown no, not his bike Like
pulling his pants up or whatever.
He's looking over the wall,looks back at me and then jumps
the wall.
So I get up to the wall, youknow, and I'm I'm approaching it
slowly because I don't, I don'tknow what's on the other side
of that, you know.
so I'm looking over, was it abrick wall, yeah, brick wall,
and I look over it and the wallwhere I'm at it's only about

(01:04:17):
three feet, but there's like a20-foot drop on the other side.
So I look down and he's thereon the ground and I can't tell
if he rolled his ankle or he'shurt or what.
So I got my gun out and I'mlike you know, show me your
hands, show me your hands.
Well, as I'm yelling that, hegrabs his waist and starts going
like this and he's got a pistolin his waist.
So I opened up on him.
Know, um, I didn't find, Ididn't even have time to find

(01:04:43):
front sight or anything likethat.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
I just started shooting.
What was what?
Was it a three foot wall?
What was the 20 foot drop?
Like what?
So it?

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
was like leading into a separate corridor for
apartments, so there was like auh, a breezeway.
So he jumped over the wall forone apartment complex and then
he ended up in, like the, thecourtyard of another one he more
than likely ate shit when hehit the bottom.
Yeah, he had to.
It was like a 15-foot drop,yeah.
So I'm thinking I don't want tojump this wall with him,

(01:05:07):
because then I'm going to messmyself up, and so I'm keeping
him at gunpoint waiting.
I know units are coming, Icould hear sirens and everything
, and so I'm sitting therewaiting and then all of a sudden
I see him turn like this andhe's got a pistol right here.
You know, he gets it about noteven all the way out of his
waistband, and I fired off 10rounds at him Downwards,

(01:05:27):
downwards from the top of thewall.
So like, basically like bird'seye view, mm-hmm, but like, not
straight down, but like pretty.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Okay, kind of like angled a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Yep, yep, and I swear it was like like they're
splashing through water.
You know, and I I'll neverforget, I saw one go right by
his head and and he limped offand I'm like I didn't know if I
hit him or if he was limpingfrom jumping the wall right.
So I put out his direction oftravel and they end up finding

(01:05:54):
him.
Uh, so my sergeant rolls up.
He's counting the case.
He's like damn, he's been firedoff 10 rounds.
I'm like I was just squeezingman.
So he's like.
They find him a couple blocksdown trying to get into a house,
banging on the door.
Let me in, let me in.
He fights with the police, getskind of, you know, use of force
happens.
He tells them that he got hitin the leg.
The fire department checks him,checks him.

(01:06:22):
They don't find any bulletwounds.
So he gets booked.
Um, was he in possession of ahangar toy?
So we, we went back to where hejumped.
He had a toy pistol that heleft right there, um, and he had
gloves and a ski mask.
So what I think is Iinterrupted him he was, there
was a liquor store right there.
He was gonna go do a 211 on arobbery on that liquor store, um
, so he ended up getting threeyears in corcoran for

(01:06:43):
brandishing an imitation firearmand resisting arrest, and he
was also probably at large, sohe got three years.
So I ended up getting a letterfrom us marshals one day and I
opened it up and it'shandwritten and it's got like
that like cholo calligraphy, youknow, it's like perfect little
letters.
And I'm reading it.
I'm like I'm reading it.
I'm like I'm reading it.
And he's saying I can't sleepat night because I can hear

(01:07:06):
bullets going past my head,because this officer shot at me
for no reason.
I have PTSD.
So I take it to my watch,commander.
And I'm like, hey, I guess I'mbeing sued.
He's like, no, this ain't howyou do it, like you have to go
to the city attorney, like hecan't just write you directly.

(01:07:27):
And I'm like, all right, cool,so I still got that letter in my
house.
You said us marshals.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
I came from the us marshal service or something.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
It was a u I'm pretty sure it's us marshals envelope.
So basically he wrote you aletter, just a straight
handwritten letter telling me,he was suing me yeah, wait a
minute.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
How did he know your information?
Or did he send it to the pd?

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
he did yeah, yeah.
So I'm like me being kind ofnew.
I'm like is this how you getsued like this?
Right, it seems weird, you know.
He's like no, this ain't theprocess.
Like no, he's gonna get calledinto like a legal, like your
department will have like alegal, yeah yeah department to
say come in, you gotta signright suit, yeah he uh yeah, he
so he, I'm like looking at itand I give it to the watch

(01:08:00):
commander and he's like, oh,let's take it home and put in
your shadow box one day, bro, hecan't, he can't see you like
that.
Yeah, so I was.
That was.
That was the only time I'vebeen in a shooting, even close,
to a few other times, but he wasan obs, um ontario gangster,
was he?
Sun kiss, sun kiss is a bigstreet block out there, just
blasted with that on him andwhat type of mentality is needed

(01:08:22):
for a police officer to be outon the streets?
I mean you.
In my opinion, you need to beaggressive like, yes, you have
to, you have to wear more thanone hat, you have to be able to
turn that off if you need to gotalk to a little kid or take a
report.
But I was always defaultaggressive because I I could
turn that off.
But it's really hard to get upto that level if you're not, if

(01:08:44):
you're not mentally andphysically prepared for it,
right, um?

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
so a civilian watching this with no experience
might think oh, aggressive, no,we need less aggressive cops.
So can you elaborate on whatyou mean by that?
Yeah, so it it.
And you know, in this beatingcorrections, if you set the tone
right away, you can avoid a lotof useful forces facts.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
Can you elaborate on what you mean by that?
Yeah, so it.
It.
And you know, in this speed andcorrections, if you set the
tone right away, you can avoid alot of useful forces facts.
Dude, yeah, if you get out ofthe car and I would do this, and
especially if you're in shapeif you get out of the car and
they're looking like this dude'sfeeling out of sleeves and he
looks like he can run, he's notgonna go running nowhere.
And the way you approach themtoo, like hey, sit down, cross

(01:09:20):
your legs, this is the way Iwould command presence, command
presence.
And they're like all right,this dude ain't messing around.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
And then what I did so that that stops a lot of
problems, because as soon asthey start thinking they could
take an inch, they're going totry to get a mile bro, I don't
understand how these newofficers right now I'm not, it's
not a stereotype, but don'tunderstand that concept they are
making their fucking job harderfor themselves by being weak
and feeble.
Yeah, it's like these, these,these suspects are just feeding

(01:09:48):
off of that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Yeah, I think a lot of it.
I blame the media, man, causethey the way they demonize cops
for a while and the cops arelike scared to be aggressive or
something, and I I don't knowman, but to me it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
I'd rather.
Is this mind-boggling to you?

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
Completely mind-boggling.
I mean, I can't wrap my headaround it, because you're in one
of the most dangerousprofessions that you could do.
Oh yeah, and you're out heretrying to do verbal judo for
like two hours.
This dude should have alreadybeen wrapped up in the clink.
What are we doing?

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
Now I need to ask you this, man, because you said it.
You said a lot of these copsare afraid of the backlash
they're going to get from theirdepartments, getting terminated,
getting put under investigation, fear of the media, but the
other to me, the otheralternative is getting killed.
Yeah, so how?

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
do you see it?
Well, it started when body camsstarted coming out and all that
.
We were audio recorders when Ifirst started, so we were
supposed to turn on a Puma audiorecorder.
Um, and I saw a lot of guysstart to get timid or they
wouldn't be proactive anymore,they would hide.
And in my mind I'm thinking, ifI'm doing everything right,
correct, I got nothing to hide.

(01:11:02):
You know, yeah, we used to callit lawful but awful.
I'm doing everything right.
It might not look good, I likethat.
It's lawful but awful.
I like that it has to be done Iknow exactly what you mean, yeah
, and to the general public theymight be like, well, he didn't
have to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
He didn't have to punch him in the face like that.
Well, yeah, he did, because byhim punching him in the face he
actually stopped it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
It stopped the whole problem you know, and I, I one
of my buddies growing up, his,his dad, was lapd uh smash unit
or crash unit, smash unit, uh,crash smash was the sheriff's
yeah, yeah, no, he was lapdcrash at newton, shooting newton
, out in la right, which issouth central hood.
Yeah, and he said you overcomeresistance with extreme violence

(01:11:36):
, overwhelming violence,overwhelming violence.
All right, so dude, pulls away.
Panel it quick, be be done.
The whole Rodney King stuff andall that.
Why did that happen?
Because there's a whole bunchof ineffective baton strikes.
Right, that's what that was.
If one dude would have came inthere and took charge and
wrapped him up and put him inthe car.
Or George Floyd, hook him up,put him in the car.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
Correct, because there was another incident.
There was another incident.
There was another incident like, I think, the east coast or the
midwest, where these cops werejust beating the shit out of
this guy.
He ended up dying, I believe.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
And um, I was thinking, fuck, nobody went in
there with the handcuffs andjust slapped hands, slapped the
fucking handcuffs on it could bein a lot of the guys that use
force too much like that, arethe ones that are scared,
correct?
Because they get like, they gethyper like, all of a sudden
it's like, oh my god, I don'tknow what to do.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
Condition black exactly or just like shit bags
right, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
And that's when you'll see like they go from
zero to a thousand, because theyweren't mentally prepared for
that.
So now they're.
Now they're.
They're like they're fighterflights kicking in.
You know what I mean, insteadof you being like I always come
and collect.
Yeah, I always had the, theidea like, as soon as I'm
allowed to use force, I'm usingit.
All right, as soon as they giveme a reason to I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
It's because you have a understanding of your use of
force, policy, the law, yourability and you're right.
As soon as that person takes itthere, then he took it there,
then you're're done.
It's easy.
Huh, it's easy.
It almost seems like a reallyeasy concept.
It is, and.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
I don't know if what causes the current not all of
them, like we said but whatcauses the current breed of
officer not to understand that,Because I was like always.
Well, I want to solve thisquickly.
I don't want to be out herewrestling this guy for forever,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
And then because there's multiple reasons why you
don't want to wrestle a guyforever.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
No, you don't.
And then, on the same timeyou're you're setting the tone
for future contacts.
It's like last time I stood upto that dude.
He fucked me up like not likeyou know, he I hear what you're
saying he dealt with the problemquick, like I'm not gonna mess
with hall.
But that dude over there helooks like I could probably get
away with something you know.
So you're setting the tone.
And then what do you think he'sgoing to do?
He's going to go tell hishomeboys.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Absolutely, if you see.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
Hall dude, like mind your P's and Q's, because you
know it's just the word spreadsand you're going to avoid a lot
of stuff.
I mean, I probably had a lot ofguys that would have taken off
running on me or tried to squareup, but they didn because, well
, from your experience, do youbelieve these criminals and
suspects?

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
do you believe they size officers up?

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
Yeah, for sure, yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean it's um, did yousize criminals up?
Yeah, I mean, I remember, rightwhen I get out of the car,
there's like this, this littlemoment in time where you're both
sizing each other up.
Yeah, that's, that's what Ifelt about it, you know, and
yeah, and especially when Istarted lifting more, you know,
because then you get out andyour uniform is a little tighter
and all of a sudden they'relike dang bro, you know, want to

(01:14:28):
have a push-up contest.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
Yeah, yeah, they'll joke around with you like that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
And?
But with I've seen it happen tolike small female cops or
really thin cops that look likethey need to put on some weight
or whatever.
You can just see them, dude,and it looks like even sucking
their teeth at these guys.
You know, we don't know whatthat means, Like that's old
school, Like that's a sign ofdisrespect, Correct, you know?
So yeah, I've seen it and itcan go both ways.

(01:15:03):
You can get out of the car andyou can act and not
knowledgeable in the environmentthat they're actually in either
learn the policy, becomfortable with it, and then
get comfortable with that, thatlevel of aggression, or get out,
because that's if you try towalk the fence and and baby foot

(01:15:24):
around everything, you're goingto get yourself hurt or someone
else hurt or the suspect,because now it's escalated
because you didn't handle itright away.
So learn the policy, becomfortable with it, be in shape
, know how to use all yourweapon systems, your personal
weapons, and, when theopportunity comes, use them
should.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
Is the profession of police officer a job or a career
?

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
career 100 and not not every agency takes it that
treats it like that you know, Iwalked in some and I'm like this
just looks like a group ofsecurity guards or something.
I don't even know what this is,you know, like there's none of
that prestige, like I rememberwalking in the station.
I'm just like man, this is cool, like I, my uniform looks good,
I'm around.
A bunch of guys like that havebeen been here for a while.

(01:16:09):
There's that level of respectwe hold ourselves to like a
higher level, um, and you justyou feel proud about it.
I kind of see that going awayand everybody just kind of shows
up and, all right, let's gopunch the clock, let's see
what's on netflix, you know, andit's just I don't know, I don't
know what's gonna need to taketo turn that all the way around.

Speaker 1 (01:16:28):
But maybe a couple more podcast episodes, bro.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
I'm thinking, yeah, getting the truth out there, man
, yeah yeah, that's what I'mhere for, man, and again, I'm
not.
There's a lot of good ones outthere, correct?
You know I'm not trying to todemean anything that they're
doing but no.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
Is that when they're watching this, they're going to
understand what?

Speaker 2 (01:16:44):
you're speaking yeah, and if you're doing everything
right, um you, you cannotoperate in a, in an area where
you're afraid to be sued.
You just can't, or the districtattorney is gonna um not file
this case.
If you're doing everythingyou're doing right, you're going
to be okay.
You might end up in a couple IAsyeah, I mean it comes with the
territory, the territory I wastold once if a cop that doesn't

(01:17:07):
get complaints is not a good cop, because you're gonna you're
gonna drum up some complaints ifyou're out being proactive and
you know doing police work atany point in your career did you
have to wear a body-worn camera?
Yeah, when I went to Ontario,they, they, they when I lateral
to ontario in 2017.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
So after your narc time you went lateral over to
ontario.
Yep, did that body worn cameraprevent you from doing your job?

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
no, no, not at all.
Um, and the hardest part wasjust getting you to turn it on,
because you hop out of the carand like a critical incident and
last thing you think of atfirst is right.
Eventually you get the musclememory and it didn't change
anything.
It like the, it's been said.
Uh, the body cam helps copsmore than it does you know a
correction officer?
Yeah, it helps more, Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:17:50):
Evidence preservation .

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
It's a great training tool and it's great for, like,
you have to write your reportfirst, then you can review the
body on camera.
Yeah, no, we could, we.
Can we go back and watch it athousand?

Speaker 1 (01:17:59):
times.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
Yeah and yeah.
So that's a big part too,because you remember things that
the, the suspect did or you did, that you can articulate it,
because when that gets played incourt're like well, you, you
hit this dude five times, butyou only, you know you only put
down three or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
so have you had to do the whole court process.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
Oh yeah, how was that for you?
I just treated like it, like agame man.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
I get up there and um , I just would they try to break
you down?

Speaker 2 (01:18:37):
there's a couple of the public defenders that go
hard in the paint.
They do go hard in the paint,man, like for grammar.
They'd be like right here, youknow.
You said and, but there's nocomma, like, did you mean to put
a comma there?
I'm like what does it have todo with the like?
What does that do with anythingyou know?
Or?
Or just a typo, or um.
So they try to make you lookdumb up there.
You just got to be professionalanswer everything.

(01:19:00):
For me it was always yes or no.
If they want you to expand morethan they'll ask more questions
.
Guys get in trouble on thestand as they start talking too
much and no one's even askedthem this question and they're
explaining the next part of theinvestigation.
So I was always taught yes orno.
I try to keep it light.
If I can throw a little joke inthere to like light really well
, I wouldn't fucking joke on thestand.
There's a crowd there's a crowdin there, you know you got to

(01:19:21):
keep the people entertained, bro, you can't just go in there I
just want to get the fuck out ofthere soon as possible.

Speaker 1 (01:19:25):
Dude ask my question.

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
I was nervous to tell the first time that I was that
I'm like.
This feels like a game to me,like they're trying to.
The public defender is tryingto play me.
There's some a preliminaryhearing.
Um, they'll be held to answeror we'll throw the case out you
know, um, only went into onejury trial, so it's.

(01:19:50):
But yeah, we were in.
I was in court a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
If you're making arrests, you're gonna be in
court, like quite a bit howdemanding or taxing is the
profession of police officer toinclude working forced overtime
in court?

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
It's pretty demanding because, especially if you're
an aggressive, proactive cop, Imean you're going to be getting
subpoenas all the time, right,and so if you're on your days
off you might have to go tocourt.
The shift work which you know,you know, I mean it's like
graveyard's brutal.
If you got, if you got a family, like you're coming home in the
morning, they're going toschool, like it's just, it's

(01:20:29):
tough, man, um.
And then you add in if you'reon a special detail, like I mean
, now you're, you're all overthe place.
I'm in la, then I'm invictorville, now I'm in paris,
you know, like it's all, it'sall over the place, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
So how important strong system at home which
brings you to my next questionhow is important is a physical
and mental health?

Speaker 2 (01:20:51):
It's paramount.
So they go hand in hand to me,cause I've been on both sides of
this you know I, for the firstfew years of my career I was
kind of taking care of fitnesswise.
For the first few years of mycareer I was kind of taking care
of fitness wise.
But then I just starteddrinking all my days off and I'm
like, okay, well, this, I'veseen how this goes.
You know I seen plenty of copsto three, four or five divorces.
I don't want to be that guy.

(01:21:11):
I'd already been with my wifefor for a lot of years dating
and then then married.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
So I this around, but if you don't take care of your
mental health and physicalhealth, you're gonna turn to
another vice, whether that's umusually oh shit, I was gonna say
sex addiction, that too dudereal quick before I mean fuck
you did the little massagepartners, you did yeah yeah,
what the hell was that about bro?

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
yeah, I almost forgot about that too.
I told you, man, I got a lot ofstories, dude because you said
you turned to another vice.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
I actually thought sex addiction yeah I mean I'm
not a fucking pervert oranything but no, yeah, so we had
.

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
I don't even know if they call it the vice, you know.
Now I don't know, but um, so wehad.
We had massage parlors in townthat were dirty and it was known
that what area?

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
on holt, holt boulevard no, not what area, bro
?
Like what city?

Speaker 2 (01:21:53):
oh, this is when I was in ontario, okay, yeah, um,
so there was, there were severalum massage parlors in town that
happy ending, happy endings,right.
So again they're like he wantsto go.
You see a massage parlor, youknow.
So I'm like, all right, howdoes this work?
All right, so you wear a, youknow, wear a body wire when you
go in step.
Twenty dollars on the tableright when you walk in.

(01:22:14):
Now they know like you're notthere for just a massage you
know, because that's not how youpay for a massage.
And uh, they're like oh cool, sowhen do I like, how do I let
you guys know to come in?
Or like, what's the get down onthis?
Like well, as soon as themassage therapist does something
that's not part of atraditional massage, they go
anywhere near your junk at all.

(01:22:35):
That's not a normal massage.
Right?
Have you had a normal massage?
Yeah, all right.
So if she starts going downyonder, you got to give the bus
signal.
So we had a bus signal that Iwould say over the wire and the
team would come in.

Speaker 1 (01:22:48):
Abracadabra.

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
No, I've been waiting for this all day, no way bro.

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
Yeah, I've been waiting for this all day, bitch,
I've been waiting for this allday.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
Bah, get out, dude.
One time I said it and um, shelooked at me like I guess I said
it kind of weird or loud.
She looked and she, she knew,she knew, I think she knew I was
giving the signal.
Was she asian, brazilian?

Speaker 1 (01:23:10):
or something, no way yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:11):
So next, you know, um , you're fully naked too, right,
all right, let me back up.
So you go.
You go in there, you lay downnaked, with a towel over you, um
, so wait a minute.
You said your wire, though howthe wire?
You leave it in your jeans,like, okay, stack them right
next to you so you can back.
Then the wires were not likebody wires anymore, it's like a
little iphone.
Yeah, um, so you say loudenough for that wire to pick it

(01:23:34):
up?
Well, she, she heard me say itand I guess she got.
She got figure, someone was up,tried to grab my junk.
So now I'm like sitting therelike tug of war with with my
junk, bro and the team's comingin and I'm like I don't want to
be in here naked when all thesefools come in here.
So she takes off bolts aroundthe the uh down the hallway and
I'm trying to get dressed realquick.
I'm like, hey, she took offdown the hallway.
I don't know what.

(01:23:55):
She thought like I was gonnacancel them coming in or
something if she grabbed me orwhat.
But yeah, I did.
I did quite a few of thosemassage bars like that.
So who gets booked?
The lady?
So the ultimate goal is so shegets booked for prostitution.
God damn.
The ultimate goal is to findwho's running the shop and then
book them on a pimping, apimping and pantering charge so

(01:24:17):
now would that be called likehuman trafficking yeah, that
takes a lot of investigativework because you got to, really
you have to.
You have to prove that theyknew what was going on and you
know the money proceeds and allthat it's.
It gets funny in depth.

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
So as a regular civilian, you know, I see, fuck
dude, I see people smoking crackon the fucking streets, fucking
slamming fentanyl, uh, hookers,homeless.
Why is it that a cop cannotstop that type of behavior?

Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
they can.
I mean it.
It would depend on a lot oftimes it's going to depend on
how busy they are.
I mean, if they have a calllike call volume that's pretty
stacked up and their prioritycalls, they're probably gonna
turn a blind eye to that.
You know you'd almost need acity like san diego should have
a call volume that's prettystacked up in their priority
calls.
They're probably going to turna blind eye to that.
You know you'd almost need acity like San Diego should have
a proactive team.

Speaker 1 (01:25:07):
That that's all they do which they may, I don't know.
So that's the question that Iwas asking is like is it like a
busy thing, is it just amanpower, or it could be that,
or I mean hours.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
In all honesty, it could be a lazy thing, too Lazy
thing.
It could be a lazy thing, youknow, if there's no cost holding
.

Speaker 1 (01:25:25):
Can it be like picking?

Speaker 2 (01:25:27):
and choosing which crime priority.
Yeah well, if you're talking,they're actually in the act of
using dope, like that's pretty,I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
what I'm trying to say is is it humanly feasible
for police officers to stop allthis type of behavior?

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
Stop all of it.
No, I don't think it's feasible.
Just because unless I mean youwould you would need a separate
team to handle all theseproblems like this, and then,
let's say you do go clean allthese dudes up.
What are they going to get incalifornia?
A ticket to rewrite a cow.

Speaker 1 (01:25:53):
I mean the, the inks oh, you know what they're going
to get in california, brofucking methadone syringes
narcan yep.

Speaker 2 (01:26:02):
So now it's like I think that discourages cops too,
right, because it's like why amI gonna go book this dude and
spend two hours at wherever thecounty jail is here, um, and
then my beats go into shit andall of a sudden now this guy's
back, he, that dude gets back tomy beat before I do you.
So I think that discouragescops too, because it's like I'm

(01:26:23):
not fixing anything Now.
Before Prop 47 hit, it wasdifferent man.

Speaker 1 (01:26:31):
Were you on the job when all these laws changed?
Mm-hmm, how the fuck was thatfor you man?
It was weird because it was AB109.
Did you see a change out on thestreets?

Speaker 2 (01:26:40):
yeah, I was out there when prcs hit, when uh
post-release communitysupervision and what did you see
?
more gang, more parolees.
Yeah, you saw parolees and youcouldn't get holds on them or
for anything, right?
So you saw a guy that was onparole and but it was like oh,
he's, it's a non-violent, it's anon-sexual offense.
I'm like so I call their agent.
I'm like, yeah, but this dude'sgot a bunch of dope and he's
causing problems with her.

(01:27:00):
Yeah, we can't buy it.
We can do a 10-day flash holdmaybe.
So I call him back.
No, we can't do that either.
I'm like well, so what's thepoint?
Like what's PRCS then?
How did that make you feel?
It was like it was a turning,didn't know what.
Like so I'm going to still goout and try to find dope.

(01:27:23):
But now I'm like I'm not really.
I'm not really looking forwarrants or anybody that's on
PRCS anymore.
Like I'm trying to put newcases on dudes, cause I know if
I come up with a new, if I got anew case on a guy, then you
know during your time in theprofession, did you notice a
change in the generation betweengangster or doper?

(01:27:45):
Yeah, so the traditional chololook, is that what you're
talking about?

Speaker 1 (01:27:51):
Yeah, demeanorisms yeah, mannerisms yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:56):
It started like when I first started.
It was still like that oldschool, like Dickies white shirt
shaved head Like 90s, fuckingcholo yeah.
And then it turned into likeskinny jeans, edgar, looking
dudes that are supposedly cholos, but it was almost more like a
tagger vibe that they wereputting out.
And then OVS was still OntarioVarios, who was still active,

(01:28:18):
but it sounds like these kidswere all on dope and none of the
stuff they were doing was wassanctioned by anybody above them
.
They're out thinking they'reputting in work, right, but it's
not.
It's not like work that's gonnacount.
Like they're, if anything,they're making the, the big
homies mad.
Like what are you guys doing?
Like it's stupid, like we don'ttag, like like I'm seeing obs

(01:28:40):
tagging around now and theynever tag.
That was like that's Benita,that's you know.
So that was a change for sure,you know, and I think with that
RICO act I was talking aboutearlier, that really that really
stomped a lot of that out.
Put the nail in the coffin.
The ones that are still around,they moved out of the city.
The Ontario Black Angels yousee them in the high desert.

(01:29:00):
You see them.

Speaker 1 (01:29:01):
Is that area relatively safe for a family to
live in?
I actually live there.

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
I lived there for a while.
Yeah, so it's getting betterand better too.
I mean they're building morehouses down by where the dairy
farms used to be.

Speaker 1 (01:29:17):
The gang problem is really nothing like it used to
be.

Speaker 2 (01:29:20):
Like not at all was it was.
It was barely even still aroundwhen I was there.

Speaker 1 (01:29:24):
I used to go to the ontario mills skate park, the
van skateboard oh yeah, Iremember that one.

Speaker 2 (01:29:28):
Yep, yeah, the mills.
Um, ontario is a great pd man,I'll go ahead and plug them.
I don't have a problem with it.
Good, good, I would have neverleft that police department
wasn't to go take care of my mom, they got everything.
Nice dude, top line equipment,all the assignments you could
ever want, but you know, you gothere and work, though they
don't need no lazy people, nolops, no, no station slugs.

Speaker 1 (01:29:51):
So what is it that you're doing now, man?

Speaker 2 (01:29:53):
So I'm retired now, a little earlier than was planned
, but I'm doing some onlinefitness training, nice, just
trying to help cops Bailey,that's where my passion is,
because I know how easy it is toget out of shape.
Working those, the shift workand the eating in the car, the
fast food, all that stuff, man.
So that's what I'm doing now.

(01:30:14):
How can people reach out to you, dude?
So I have my Instagram, whichis thenarrowpath, my Instagram,
which is the period narrow pathperiod.
So, I'm sorry, the period, pathperiod, narrow period, the
narrow path, the narrow path.
Yeah, it's a lot of periods inthere.
Yeah, instagram makes you do allthis, this weird stuff.
But yeah, hit me up on there.
I post a lot of stuff too.

(01:30:35):
Like I'll post old big dopeseizures from when I was on that
.
I saw those pictures.
Yeah, I'll post majors, uh,narcotic seizures and stuff like
that and then just kind of putmy story in there so and just
reach out to me on there andyeah, but I was doing that
before I, while I was still acop.
I was doing that, you know,helping out other cops get in
shape and yeah, and it was coolwatching that, you know, because

(01:30:55):
now they're there's theiruniforms loose on them and you
can see their confidence comeback.
Yeah yep, and I think a lot ofpeople just think that it's like
something they can't do orunattainable.
You know it's not man.
If I can do it, then anybodycan do it.
A couple little change,adjustments to your diet, and
you're good.
I agree, dude 100, that's allit is so cool man.

Speaker 1 (01:31:13):
Well, I want to thank you, dude, for making the trip
out here and sharing yourexperience, bro, I learned a lot
, dude.
I learned a lot about being acop yeah, I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:21):
I'll come back, man, I appreciate you having me man
we'll do a round two, man.
Yeah, we'll make the next onebe the major narco version.
Cool for sure, he's there forsure hell yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31:29):
Well, there you guys have it, folks.
Another banger for you guys.
If you like what you saw, makesure you hit that subscribe
button.
Love you guys, keep pushingforward fold.
Thank you.

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