Combat creates wisdom that classroom training never could.

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hector Bravo.
Unhinged Chaos is now insession.
Today's guest is a former ArmyGreen Beret.

(00:23):
That's right, folks, specialForces.
His name's Terry.
What up, terry?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hey, what's up, man?
How's it going?

Speaker 1 (00:28):
So it's good to have you on the show, dude.
Yeah, thanks, man Appreciate it, so you did two podcasts prior
to this.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, this weekend I did Urban Valor TV.
On Friday it was a really goodconversation with Josh, and then
yesterday I did Soft WhiteUnderbelly with Mark.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Shout out to those two channels Soft White
Underbelly with Mark and UrbanVelar with Josh man.
Good dudes, yeah, so you'reoriginally from where.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
So I'm originally from St Louis Missouri.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Oh, you failed to mention that part, bro.
Yeah, yeah, and how long was it?
Where you currently live inFlorida.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, so we currently live in Florida.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
I've been there since 2014, roughly okay, okay, let's
take it back to uh.
Saint louis man.
Yeah, how was that?

Speaker 2 (01:09):
it was good man, I mean it was blue collar kind of
bringing up, uh, upbringing, youknow what decades are we
talking?
So born in 1979, so 80s, 90s,80s, 90s in saint louis yeah,
generation x latchkey, the wholenine yards.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Was it, as I don't want to say the word hood or
ghetto as it is right now?

Speaker 2 (01:31):
back then, so I was born there and then we moved
around a lot.
So, man, I would probably be inthe same neighborhood or same,
I would say school, If I wasthere over a year, two years,
years that was.
I'd been there for a while, sowe moved around a lot I had two
friends from the army from stlouis, yeah, yeah so, uh, my

(01:53):
parents, obviously they were.
They were married young, butthey don't last very long, they
didn't, no, like toddler age.
Okay they, they broke up,divorced, and then it was pretty
much my own.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
How was that for you growing up?
Did you grow up in separatehouseholds?

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, we grew up in separate households, so I lived
with my mother most of the timeand then had a lot of influence
with my grandparents.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Was your father influential in your life?

Speaker 2 (02:17):
So he came back into my life probably later on, I
would say probably about 10 to12 years old, I think roughly
around that time frame.
He kind of started coming backaround.
How did you feel about it?
then, I mean I don't know, youknow, as a kid, um, you're
always like happy, you know,right, like I don't think I was,
I didn't know.
Like no, I don't want to seethis guy.
Yeah, because my mother neverdid like a.

(02:38):
I don't never remember her liketalking bad on the guy.
That's a good thing, you knowwhat I mean.
Like he, she never like beathim up or like, hey, he doesn't
want to see you.
So I think you know a woman'sperspective on what she puts on
her kids is huge hat, mold,fully shit, massive, huge.
You know what I mean.
So like, uh, I have to give herprops on that because she
didn't beat him up, even thoughmaybe she had the right to.

(02:59):
Okay, you know what I mean.
So, but she, uh, they'rehonorable of her, yeah so, uh,
but man, so they were goingthrough their own.
You know, right, you marriedyoung like that middle class
well, not middle class, we werepoor, but um, you know, midwest
drugs, alcohol, kind of goingthrough all that stuff you know
they had their own demons.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
What kind of drug?

Speaker 2 (03:19):
oh, they had their own demons yeah, they had their
own demons they were dealingwith, you know what kind of
drugs were so I don't want.
I don't know exactly as far as,like my mother, I know my dad
spoke a lot quite about, youknow, having some, you know,
alcohol issues.
Okay, younger, you know, he, asI grew up, though, like when I
met him later on, I think he, bythe time he came back into my

(03:39):
life, I think he had that prettymuch under control, okay, you
know, I mean he stepped away,you know, dealt with his, his
shit, and then, and then cameback so as young as young terry
is growing up, do you have amale?
figure.
So my grandfather was a huge mymother's and he was old school.
Oh man, he was old school.
Korean war, korean war veteran.

(04:00):
Yeah, korean war veteran nononsense kind of guy, yeah, he
was uh like gran torino man heyeah he was a pipe hitter man.
He was a solid dude.
Once he got back I'd neverremember him working for anybody
else, he was just hustle.
That's funny how that works.
Huh, yeah, he came back.
He got his own rig.
He drove across the states forquite a little bit, opened his

(04:27):
own motorcycle shop, did custombikes auctioneer Like he was
just like he just grind.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
So was there ever a point in your adolescence that
you started to get into trouble?

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Man, I'd say, probably about puberty, okay,
puberty time frame.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
That's kind of normal , I think it's normal.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, I think all the way up before then I think I
was a pretty good kid.
I get into fights, yeah, youknow, I think, living in that
neighborhood and you know movingaround a lot, that just comes
with the territory, Right, youknow, I think, especially that
generation, that's just kind ofhow you dealt with stuff.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Playing games like Smear, the Queer King of the
Mountain.
Oh, this is a fucking unhingedchannel, bro.
We could say whatever.
Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
So I can't get canceled yeah, so like yeah, so
I would say that, um, that justcame part of the territory.
But I say, probably byadolescence is where I kind of
kind of went off the off thedeep end.
You know what I mean describe,describe to me.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Uh, going off the deep end, what kind of behaviors
were you engaging in?

Speaker 2 (05:18):
man.
So I think, coming up and likethat generation, it's like you
were either.
Like there's three figures youlooked up to as a male right it
was the cop, the robber and theaction hero.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
God damn bro.
Yeah, you got to quote thatshit right there.
Man, no dude, you're right.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
It's all three of those right and I hit.
I checked the box on all ofthem.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
You're fucking right, dude.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
So yeah, so them, you're fucking right dude, so uh
, so yeah, so like those threethings, because that's where
you're like bro, that's justwhat it was.
The movies like the influencearound the neighborhood you have
rambo yep, you rambo terminator, right terminator, you know
what I mean.
Then you got robocop.
You know what I?

Speaker 1 (05:57):
mean you had yeah dude, you know familia like you.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
All those movies there, you're like time frame
yeah godfather all that, youknow what I mean.
Like that's what a dude is,that's what a man is.
If you don't have any figurethat's telling you anything
different.
You're like all right, I gotthree things.
That's one thing I got to check.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Now the 45-year-old Terry, with all your experience.
Is that what a man is?
No, absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
What would you say a man is?
Oh, man.
So that's a tough question.
So I think to me, a man issomebody who is a leader but
serves.
Right, you serve to meet otherpeople's needs Correct, but you
still need to do it from a placeof, like leverage and authority
and confidence, and you knowwhat I mean.

(06:48):
It's not there, because there'srealities of it is is you're
going to tell people to dothings that they don't want to
do Facts, right, and so youcan't bend on that.
Right, there's a, you know, amoral compass.
Hey, no, we're not doing thatbecause it's not right, you know
.
But the same token, you'redoing it because it's the best
thing for them, you know, okay,so like, that's kind of where

(07:09):
you know you have to, you know,show, you know.
Another thing is, I think, toughfor me, especially growing up
in that kind of generation, waslike you love your family and
you're like I'm showing themlove, but if they don't feel it,
then you're kind of missing themark.
That was the biggest thing,like where I really had a
problem, you know, becauseyou're like, hey, I'm doing this

(07:30):
because I love you and it'scoming from love, right, but I
was being way too stern.
You know what I mean?
I was not.
If they didn't see it and theydidn't feel it, you're just like
oh man, I'm kind of missing themark.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Well, ultimately, you also got to take the other
person's emotions intoconsideration yeah, especially
if you're stoic and you don'treally have emotions on it.
You're like, no, this is theway it is right, you know so did
you start getting in troublewith the law during this these
years?

Speaker 2 (07:57):
yeah, so I started getting it.
So actually my tradecraft waspretty good.
So I kind of like didn't reallyget caught on a lot of the you
know dumb shit that I was doing.
You know, was it illegal?
Illegal, yeah, okay, yeah,drugs, you know selling drugs,
stealing like that kind of stuffyou know.
So I was doing that and thatwas just kind of part of like I

(08:20):
don't know man.
It was kind of part of theculture and the neighborhood and
like the biggest thing I thinkyou know, just like anybody else
, the two things you couldn't doyou couldn't steal from friends
, friends, family and youcouldn't rat on anybody Like
anything outside of that.
You know it's kind of a shittyway to think, like how you grew
up.
It's like your stuff I'm notworried about, right, you know

(08:48):
what I mean.
Like you look at it, that's aselfish thing, like you're not
considerate about somebody else,definitely, you know.
But that's just young, immature, kind of falling in line with
not thinking about what you'redoing and how it's affecting
other people.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
you know what I mean now, would you ultimately get
arrested and go to jail no, Ididn't end up going to jail.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
I did get arrested, uh, for breaking into a vehicle,
um, and like we, I think wesold a car stereo and some other
stuff.
Whatever, I ended up gettingcaught on that one.
I was with a bunch of otherdudes and those guys were idiots
, and then you fell in there.
They came back to the scene andthen I get, but I got busted
yeah, did you end up graduatinghigh school?

Speaker 1 (09:18):
nope, you didn't graduate high school high school
, yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
So, um, I was getting in a lot of fights.
Um, middle school, like theyear was over and I remember my
grand, my grandmother's like,hey, you gotta go see the
principal.
And uh, so I go over there andsee the principal and, uh, like
I'm sitting there as a kid, mygrandmother's sitting there, and
the principal is like, hey,listen, you failed like

(09:44):
everything.
Like you know what I mean.
And my grandmother's like, ohno, you know, like everything,
like you know what I mean.
And my grandmother's like, ohno, you know.
She's like talking to him,she's like I will pass you if
you never come back here again.
So, so my grandmother's like,all right, hey, we'll move them
out.
And I'm sitting there like dang, you know.
And uh, so we moved out to thecountry and then, uh, they ended
passing me through middleschool and that was was kind of

(10:05):
like through high school, backand forth, kind of getting in
trouble.
And then I moved with mygrandfather and I was a handful
man.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
Now, were you just not applying yourself, or were
you actually struggling with thematerial?

Speaker 2 (10:20):
No.
So all through elementaryschool straight A's Straight A's
easy, no problem at all.
Middle school I startedelementary school straight A's
all the straight A's easy, noproblem at all.
Middle school I started I stillstraight A's.
And then I just like plummetedand plummeted.
If I look back, man, I reallydon't even know what the.
I think you know.
I think it's the same reason.
A kid falls into whatever.
At that point you're a jock,you're a nerd.

(10:42):
Whatever that falls into, right, you're.
Oh, I just fell into thebad-ass, like the kid that
rebels and don't do it.
I just fell in.
Oh, this is my niche Now, wereyou?

Speaker 1 (10:53):
a were you a lone ranger or did you?

Speaker 2 (10:55):
have friends.
Um, I was pretty lone, I wouldsay, but I started hanging
around with the wrong people,obviously wrong crowd, and
that's where you kind of reallystart, like you know what I mean
, Like making decisions youprobably wouldn't have made if
you just would have like.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
So, to my understanding, you need a high
school diploma or equivalent tojoin the military.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
So I went to the when , that point, whenever I went to
the recruiter you know when,when it was time to go to the
recruiter, um, I didn't haveshit and they're like bud, you
can't get them in.
And he's like but he set me upwith doing my GED.
He's like, hey, here's an ASVAB, you need to study this and you
need to go get this GED.
What year was this?
This was in, oh man, 1999, 98,99.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
What did the GED course consist of?
Like in-person classroom.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, so you studied a book they gave you and then
you just went in and pretty muchtook a test, that's it.
That was it.
Yeah, was that easy for you?
Yeah, it was easy, man.
So, like, even whenever I wasin, um, uh, like high school,
right, so they had a.
I remember one year I can'tremember what grade yet level it
was but they're like, hey,listen, um, all of these kids

(12:06):
that were like they were gettingin trouble or low income, that
wasn't coming in and applyingthemselves, they had a program
to where they would pay you thiswas after I was 16 years old an
hourly wage to go to school andtake their test.
I think.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
I remember that.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, so like.
So they're like I was like okay, yeah, you're going to pay me.
And they're like if you applyyourself, you're going to
whatever, right?
So I take this thing over Idon't remember how long it was
or whatever.
And then I get done and I don'tremember exactly what it was,
and that was like maybe nine, 10, 10th grade or something like
that.
And they go, they sit me down.
They're like what are you doing, man?
Like why aren't you applyingyourself?
And like they show me the testand like why don't you apply

(12:50):
yourself?

Speaker 1 (12:51):
I'm like this is stupid.
Like you, I would just likejust rebellious, just rebellious
, just like you know what I mean.
So you ultimately get your ged?
Yep, so I get my ged.
And what do you let therecruiter know?

Speaker 2 (12:56):
yeah, like.
So he kind of set it up likealmost, like obviously they're
the recruiters, like they'rehustling oh, so they're keeping
tabs on.
They're on your ass, dude yeah,they're like, hey, man, we're
trying to get you in.
So, like, right, like they'rein there.
Hey, here's the ged.
Hey, here's, here's where youcan go.
Hey, I got you scheduled nextfriday, can you get?
Like, yeah, like they're not,like, oh, here it is and go
correct, like they were.
Like you know they were tryingto get, they were, they were

(13:18):
hustling, you know.
So they helped me through thatprocess and did you so?

Speaker 1 (13:21):
you take the ASVAB test.
Yep, take the ASVAB test.
Did you score high enough whereyou had a good selection of
jobs?

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah.
So when I went in, they told meI could get whatever job I
wanted.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Whatever job you wanted.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
They said no.
They said I scored high enoughto get whatever job.
Now, once you get there,whatever jobs are available is
where you're going to like whenyou go to the MEP station or
whatever.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Ultimately, what MOS did you end up choosing?

Speaker 2 (13:43):
So when I initially got there to the MEP station,
they're like they go through thewhole process or whatever, and
then you sit down there.
It's like you know, it's liketalking to used car salesmen.
Oh, definitely oh man, you knowwhat I mean.
It's like they're just tryingto sell you whatever and they're
like oh, we got this commo jobfor you, right?
This is before september 11,september 11, yeah, so this is

(14:03):
before the war, so there'snothing going on wait, let me
think there was absolutelynothing going nothing going on,
so it's like dead time.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
You're probably not even thinking about war,
probably so I was thinking aboutgetting after it.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
But I'm like thinking , how can I do that?
okay, you see the posters on thewall.
You're like, oh, you know, beall you can be.
And the guy like wearing like,uh, you know the, you know the
camo and in the swamp and allthat shit.
And you're like that's cool,but that guy's not doing
anything right now.
So that's what's in my mind.
Okay, right.
So I'm like, all right, what amI going to do?
And they're like, hey, youoffered me a camo gig.
And I'm like, what is that?

(14:34):
And they're like, yeah, youknow you first motherfucker that
gets killed, exactly.
I'm just like, no, I don't wantto do that.
Like, who wants?
No, I'm not doing that.
And then they're like they'relike all this other stuff and
they're like, uh, underwaterwelding, they got underwater
welding that is a thingunderwater welding.

(14:58):
And then I'm just like what am I?
I'm not gonna be able to shootnobody in underwater welding.
Like that's dumb, you know.
And now I'm like and nowthey're like well, those people
make a lot of money.
And I'm like, yeah, they alsodie at 26.
Also, like you know what I mean.
And I'm just like so anyways, Iwas like hey, I'm like, what
about MP?
You got MP available.
And they're like no, it's notavailable.
And they'm like all right, I'mdone, I'm out, left the MEP

(15:26):
station.
I'm like all right, no, I don'twant any of that.
Walked out, left the MEPstations, walking down St Louis,
like leaving, and my recruitercalls me.
They're like hey, what's goingon, man?
I'm like, hey, I'm just like no, man, they're not giving me
what I want.
Like I'm saying so I'm likegoing over this.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
How old were you?
I was probably so.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
I was a young punk.
I was a totally young punk.
I just thought I was a youngpunk.
I'm glad you clarified that man.
So I'm like.
So yeah, I was like 19 yearsold.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
Okay cool, not too young, Not a 17-year-old, not
too young but I was like I gotmore street smarts you're wet
behind the year.
I mean, you're not wet behindthe years, man so, uh, I'm like
no, I'm not doing that.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
So he's like hey, go back in there, they'll give it
to you.
So so I went back in the mepstation and then they were like
totally different demeanor.
They're like screw you, likeI'm just like.
They ended up giving it to me.
They were pissed.
Yeah, you could tell they werekind of a little pissed, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
But they ended up giving it to me mp yeah, mp okay
so where did you go to basic?
At uh, fort leonard wood, fortleonard wood yeah, fort lost in
the woods.
That's what I was gonna say.
What is the nickname?

Speaker 2 (16:30):
for that fort lost in the woods.
Yeah, st roberts, missouri, isthat where it's at?

Speaker 1 (16:35):
yeah, st roberts, so you were in missouri, so you're
in the same state, I'm the samestate, the same climate.
So you're not used.
So you're not.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
It's not a culture shock it's not a huge culture
shock.
It's still like, um, really itwasn't really a culture shock
because a couple things, um, itwas still in the country and
then we had spent time after Imoved out in the country also,
right, okay.
So like, um, obviously it's outin the middle of nowhere, but
it wasn't a culture shock and,truthfully, it was a good move
because, um, um, they, theyasked me what duty station I

(17:04):
want to go to.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
At what point in time At MEPS.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
At MEPS.
And what did you say?
So I went to the basic trainingAIT in Fort Leonard Wood and my
first duty station was FortLeonard Wood also, and I was
like, hey, I want to stay there.
That's what you wanted.
I wanted right, because me andmy wife are young, we just got
married, right, we have kids.
I'm like, hey, she can be closeto her family, okay, okay, I
didn't know what was going to goon like I had no clue what I
was getting into.
I wanted her to have a supportnetwork.

(17:27):
If she needed it, I was gone.
Gone, you know.
I mean, which was truthfullywas, uh, was a blessing
originally, you know, soundslike it yeah, so you made the
right call.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
What was basic training like for you?
Was it hardcore, were you?
How were your drill sergeants?
Were they more of a mentorassholes?

Speaker 2 (17:44):
um, man, this was like the late 90s, early 2000s,
so it was.
I mean they were.
They were what I expected adrill sergeant to be.
Okay, you know what I mean?
Um, in your face, likescreaming, yelling knife hands,
like all that kind of shit, youknow throwing your personal
property around, your personalproperty around and shit

(18:05):
Throwing your personal propertyaround.
You know flipping bunks, youknow what I mean.
Like people leave their shitout and they you know what's
that, the boot stuff you had.
They would write stuff all overthere and you had to clean that
stuff up.
That would take forever, youknow what I mean.
So you go in there, like towhere it was pretty impressive,
like how they could tie knotsand like, have bunks outside.
I'm like they just threw bunksoutside the damn the barracks

(18:27):
and they're on the floor outhere.
I mean they were just like sothat kind of stuff was was
pretty norm, you know, but notlike the whole.
Like there's only one time thatI seen a dude get busted in the
head and that was at the range.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Did he do something very negative he did something
stupid.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
He was flagging whatever in one of the drill
sergeants.
You know the flag that theyhave, the little paddle, yeah,
and he busted that kid rightacross the head with the paddle.
That's the only time I've seenanybody like.
The rest of the time, you know.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
And they used to hit us with the helmet, the Kevlar
helmet.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah, yeah, they would call it the range.
Yeah, yeah, the range.
Yeah, he used a paddle orwhatever, but besides that, I
thought it was normal.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
So you graduate.
You graduate basic, you gothrough AIT.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
So it was like the basic and AIT there, for that
was it was like graduate andthen go to AIT.
Was the same drill instructors,correct?
Yeah, so you didn't like?
Was that considered?

Speaker 1 (19:24):
OSUT also yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
OSUT, I guess, yeah, okay yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
So now you're an MP man, You're looking sharp.
Did you feel different?
Did you feel proud?

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Accomplished.
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, I mean, you go throughthat.
I think you're going to feelsomething right, like you feel
like, okay, hey, you know, like,uh, there, you know you set a
goal and you achieved it.
Right, you know what I mean.
No matter what it is, I don'tcare what mls you did, right,
you know what I mean.
Like you did set a goal, youachieved it.
You've done that.
You went to the graduation orwhatever, right, they're just
milestones in your life, that'sright so, like uh, I think, I

(19:58):
think it's important that you,that you celebrate those
absolutely, no matter how smallor how big they are.
Yeah, don't take it for granted.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
You know.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
So you said, there are milestones, but even these
small milestones can lead to awhole impactful, a few different
, yeah, exactly, life.
Yeah, so, yep, so did that.
Went to the first duty stationand I'll tell you, man, like,
when I went to my initial dutystation, it was like almost like
Super Troopers, troopers beforesuper troopers came out, man.
So we got in there and I'mdoing my uh.
When I initially got in there,they put me as a road mp, right,

(20:29):
so I was working on the roadinitially, right, and uh, I'm
doing my training.
It's like I don't remember,like two o'clock in the morning,
because you have like shifts atall times, another mp car
drives up next to us and there'stwo other mps in there in
civilian clothes, fit the vodkagetting smashed, and I'm just
like what is going on here, man?

(20:49):
I'm like is this normal, werethey?
in an mp vehicle they were an mpvehicle, yeah, patrol car, and
I'm just like what is going on?
Because because this is where Iwas at.
I will tell you this, like nomatter where I was at, like um,
once I went all in on something,my biggest thing was not being
a hypocrite.
Okay, I do not want to Like.
So if I am going to go all inand like this is what I'm doing.

(21:13):
I played the book, I was by thebook.
You know what I'm saying?
No, that makes sense.
That's just the way I am.
Now, if I go on the other sideand I go on the other stuff,
well then I'm like okay so itdoesn't matter wherever you go,
you're going all in I'm goingall in, man, you know what I
mean.
Because, like to me, like theworst thing you can do is is be
a hypocrite yeah, you're rightyou know what I mean.
Like, at the end of the day,it's like okay, I'm put in a

(21:35):
position to be in a leadershipposition or an authoritative
position.
I I have to do it the right way, because if not, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
So, as an MP you mentioned, you did a couple
deployments pre-war.
What was?
You were already an MP when9-11 happened.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, so I showed up to my unit one year before
September 11th of 2000.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Do you remember that particular day?

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Oh yeah, like the back of my hand.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
What did you guys do as a unit?

Speaker 2 (22:01):
So we were preparing for a um it was called the best
warrior competition okay, right.
So, um, it was like all unitsfor like all mps or whatever.
And we're at the uh, theobstacle course, right, so we're
training at the obstacle courseand then, uh, we're taking a
break, had the radio on and thenthe towers hit and we're like,
oh shit, like this reallyhappened, you know.

(22:23):
Then, from there, we got in thevehicle, went back to the
company and then watched it.
You know, like, the other onehit, like unfold, and uh,
because at first we're like,what is it?
Like?
We didn't know.
When the first one hit right,was it an accident or whatever?
And then, once the second onehit, you're like, okay, I just
confirmed, you know what I mean.
And uh, then, from there, weended up getting deployed to

(22:45):
Qatar a couple months after that.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
What did the base look like in Qatar?
Was it a nice base?
Oh yeah, it was nice.
Was it an Air Force base, armybase?
It was an.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Army base.
It was an Army base and wespent maybe almost close to a
year there, maybe a year there.
How was the chow?
Chow was great.
It was not a deployment Like itwas like, oh, I get it, I get
it.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
How was the gym?

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Gym was nice, Like everything was nice.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
And now were you doing MP duties in Qatar?
Yeah, we're watching Gate.
Oh hell, no man, gate to thegym.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Inside, not even on the outside perimeter of the
damn, the nice place you know inQatar, which is low crime, low
terrorism.
So it was like, if I get it,and you know anybody that's
served, that's served duties,where you're like what is my
purpose?
Right, and you sit there andyou're questioning it, you're
just like why am I, why am Ipicking out grass from this root

(23:43):
whenever I have a weed killerthat I can do it?
We've all felt it.
Oh, I get it.
And you're just like you'resitting there like you got to be
kidding me.
You know, and that was back inthe time I weren't, we didn't
have like our platoon, a platoonsergeant at the time.
He was like no chair, so youstood like 12 hour shifts 12, 12
on, 12 on, 12 off.
four shifts, just man and you'rejust like, oh, this is terrible

(24:05):
.
You know, but that was myinitial because SOCOM was there.
They had a base where thoseguys were coming in and out.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
In Qatar.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
In Qatar.
Yeah, like the NSW guys, the SFguys, the Ranger Battalion guys
, the guys that were still goinginto Afghanistan or whatever.
So I'd be sitting Sometimes,like to Afghanistan or whatever.
So, like you, I'd be sittingsometimes I'd have we'd guard
over there and you'd see theseguys coming in and they were
like what do they look like?
Oh, they were just like theylooked exactly like you know,
just worn out, like there'stimes you coming in there and
just like you do the worn out,like they're getting after it,
and then I'm just like I'm thatneed to do more.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Right, that was my initial like.
That was it?
That was my initial one.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
I'm like all right, so you're standing in the gate
of qatar, standing because yoursergeant's an asshole.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, you're seeing these fucking salty ass, fucking
combat veterans, special forces, yeah, coming through.
And now your wheel, now yourhamster, yes, your hamster is
starting to move.
Yeah, yeah and uh, did you evertalk to those guys?

Speaker 2 (25:04):
um, not much like a little bit, but like those guys
were coming and going you knowwhat I mean like they had.
They had shit to do, man, youknow so how did you pursue
special forces?

Speaker 1 (25:17):
did you have to tell a supervisor or a superior?

Speaker 2 (25:20):
yeah, so like.
So we got back from that tripand then, uh, so we got back and
that trip, and then we deployedagain and we deployed to Iraq
the next time, right, and it wasright whenever Iraq kicked off
and it was right whenever thefour line of troops were coming
through, right, but we wereright behind them, right.
So we're in the rear with thegear and everybody knows this.

(25:42):
They have done four line oftroops or, depending on where
they're at, as far as, like bigoperations, when people move out
, it takes a while for them tocome back in, right, it takes a
little bit.
It depends on what's going on,you know.
So then we get through there andwe're there for a little while
and, and what we're assigned toan ODA and those guys are out
like doing their own thing, likerunning and gunning and getting

(26:03):
after it.
You know, and that's wheneverI'm just like all right, I'm
done this, like that's what Iwant to do.
You know what I mean, becauseI'm here drinking bag water,
like, and like that was back inthe days in Iraq where, like,
you had to like pull guard onyour shit, you come out there
and a gun truck would be gone,like that they talk about that
stuff was happening because foodwould be gone.

(26:25):
You had to pull guard onwhatever you had because that
stuff, people were taking thatshit.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Who was taking it?
Other units, other units, yeah.
Okay, you had me thinking thatthe Iraqis were taking it.
No, no, no, it was just otherunits.
Other units were just fuckingacquiring things.
Acquiring stuff, yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
That was back in the day.
They were like, hey, hey, yougot one, one bag of water that
you can have, you know, and uh,so it came in his bags, you know
, and we drank it.
For how?

Speaker 1 (26:49):
long you didn't have those haji water bottles no,
that was before these haji waterbottles.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
It came in a bag, okay, and then um, and then
afterwards they're like hey,quit drinking the bag water.
It's like, uh, contaminatedwith hepatitis, all kinds of
craziness.
I'm just like, well thanks,well thanks a lot man.
Great, I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Excellent bro.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
So, so, yeah, so I came back from that deployment
and then I went and found a SFrecruiter.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
That's very interesting, man.
That's very interesting thatyou're in the military and you
reach out to a SF recruiter.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yep, so you go through there and they have you
like, um, they have sfrecruiters to go in there and
kind of like it's almost theexact same thing as a regular
recruiter, right, but they'rejust.
But they're like steering youin the route of like, okay, hey,
you want to go sf but my thingis isn't there?

Speaker 1 (27:39):
don't you have to get approval from your chain of
command?
No what do you mean?

Speaker 2 (27:43):
no, so like in a day, if I want to go to a selection,
I go to sf recruiter.
I got a date, I'm going toselection.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
I never even knew that dude.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, they can't stop you from going.
Now, what they can do is theycan make it difficult for you
once you sign up.
Like if you don't make it,things could get, things could
stop you try to jump ship onyour yeah yeah, uh, physically
condition.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
I mean, you're fucking swole right now.
Yeah, how were you back then?

Speaker 2 (28:10):
so back then, um, I was still a pt stud man at that
point.
Man like I was, you know,maximizing my uh, apft.
That's one thing you learn inthe military really quick.
Man, if you're the right place,right time, right uniform and
you're physically fit, you'realready top one percent.
That's facts.
Right uniform and you'rephysically fit, you're already
top 1%.
That's facts.
Then you just apply a littlecommon sense to that Pretty much

(28:31):
in life, in life.
Yeah, right, you do not have to.
If you add that together, careand like try to apply yourself,
forget it, you're you're beating90, some 99% of the population.
Yeah, so, uh, so, yeah, so youlearn that really quick, you
know.
And I'm like, okay, boom, knockthese off, cause these are easy
things you can do.
Right, yeah, it's not hard towork out.

(28:53):
Or you don't have to be smart tomove shit.
Like smart to move shit, likeyou know what I mean.
Yeah, you don't have to besmart to make sure you're in the
right uniform, right right eyeon your shit.
Look good, you know.
I mean you don't have to besmart to be you know, show up on
time, true, all these thingsthat are basic things.
You don't have to be smart todo it.
You're dropping knowledge tothe fucking crowd, bro.
Yeah so, uh, so, yeah so um.

(29:14):
So that stuff I had pretty well, pretty real tight and then,
and then I just started.
Once you went to the SFrecruiter, they give you like a
little book like, hey, this iswhat you need to prepare for a
selection, you know, just forlike physical fitness portion of
it.
So I just followed that to a T.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Where was the selection at?

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Uh selection was at uh Camp McCall.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Fort Bragg Fort Bragg , Yep.
Was that your first time beingat Fort Bragg Yep?
That initial time Walk methrough day one.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Ooh, man day one.
So day one, I show up.
I got a good story for this oneman.
So, as I fly there, I'm wearingmy black boots with me on the
plane, right, and I had civilianclothes on, but on my carry-on
I had my bdus with my white name, or my the white tape on it

(30:09):
that they have you put on them.
They put your roster number onit, uh, and then I show up there
.
They the airline lost myluggage, so none of my, none of
my other shit was with me, right.
So I show up there with justthat, right.
So, luckily, whenever I had mycarry on, I had my my rock with
me, or whatever.
And then so I show up there andI didn't have it the whole trip

(30:32):
, man.
So I had one pair of BDUs likewore the whole time.
So show up there, and then Ican't remember exactly what the
in processing, remember what itspecifically was.
Do you show up, they in processyou.
They give you a number, hey,this is your roster number.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
And then, um, are they being stern with you?
Who are these fucking cadre?

Speaker 2 (30:50):
yeah, cadre, yeah, they're all other sf guys.
Okay, right, they just comeback there to get a uh, do their
instructor time.
But like through the wholewhole course it was professional
.
The only time they yelled wasduring log PT.
The rest of the time was veryprofessional Either you did it
or you didn't.
And then you show up andeverything's like on a
whiteboard, right, and they'relike you have to go check the

(31:10):
whiteboard.
So you had to like round peopleup and we had like a roster
with the students.
Hey, somebody had to go checkthe whiteboard every like I
can't remember, maybe every 15minutes, like 24, 7.
Somebody go because that'swhere they put the detail at
like, hey, next hard time we'regoing to meet at this location
at this time.
So the cadre would just comeout.
Hey, 65 pound ruck this timeline up at this location.

(31:37):
And then so you'd have to keepon watching the whiteboard
because that's where all yourinstructor instructions came
from was there group punishmentif somebody messed up, or was it
individual?
no, man, the only time you hadgroup punishment really is like
whenever you're doing like teamweek, okay, yeah, so I don't,
there was not.
I don't remember any kind ofgroup punishment like there's's.

(31:58):
I don't remember, I don'tremember there being any group
punishment.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
So it's a selection.
Yeah, so do you initially gointo tactics?

Speaker 2 (32:06):
or that.
So the select selection on thatpoint.
Obviously things change overthe years, right, but during
that time it was really based onphysical fitness, your
character traits, right, andyour men, your mental mentality,
right.
So you get a psych test.
They, you know, they ask you,you know one of the things they

(32:27):
did.
They give you a psych test andthen they also like hey,
something basic, like hey, whyyou want to be a Green Beret?
Give you a sheet of paper andyou write out whatever you want
and then the psychs would lookat it, you um, and then uh, then
they had.
You know that was a lot of thepsychological portion of it and
the rest of it was all physicalpeer, like you know you.

(32:49):
You could peer your, yourbuddies, so you do team stuff,
right, and if you were gettingpeered like hey, this guy's not
pulling his weight when you'redoing team stuff, like you get
kicked out for that do you thinkyou almost have to be a social
path to pursue Green Beret?
So I will tell you once.
I did the whole you knowselection Q course and I went to
on the teams.

(33:10):
The SF, the physical fitnessportion was the easiest part
Understanding the human domainand understanding people and how
to understand your own biases,understand their biases and
you're trying to get people todo a mission set that they may
not know, that you're trying toget them to do right.
So now you have to use leverageresources to get something done

(33:35):
that they might even not knowthat's's being asked of them, do
they teach you that, yes, theyteach you that, and then it
comes with a little bit ofwisdom, experience, like all.
That's kind of like you know,throughout the, the guys that
really succeed are the ones thatkind of pick that up, okay you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
That makes, uh, emotional intelligence a lot of
emotional intelligence.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
You know, you really have to understand that so you
went through seer school yep,how was that dude?
oh, seer school was a blast.
So so seer school was a blast.
So seer school was one of thoseschools that, um, I wouldn't
say like it was enjoyable, right.
But I think there are certainschools that you go to that if
you ever have to use in reallife that you're like, because

(34:20):
most people they'll say, oh,seer school, that was stupid, it
was a waste of time.
Well, that if you ever have touse in real life that you're
like, because most people willsay, oh, seriously, that was
stupid, it was a waste of time.
Well, it was because you neverhave to use it, right.
But if you had to use it now,you're like, boom, I remember
that, you know, because it'llbreak you down.
You know not eating, you know.
Obviously you got the physicalportion of it, the mental

(34:41):
breakdown of it and everythingelse there too.
But to me I thought it was donereally professional.
And then you kind of really seeyour peers and you can see
who's dealt with trauma beforein their life and who hasn't.
The guys that have not dealtwith trauma break Because this
is the first time somebody'syelled at them, put their hands
on them, demoralized them.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
Whatever Do they break down physically and start
crying.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
They start yelling, screaming you talking about,
like the, the students, are thatstudents?
Oh yeah, you see some crazyshit.
Break it down.
Breaking down like mentally,you know, emotionally, because
what they'll do is they look foryour weak points, right as a
person, as a man, whatever, andthey just jab at them, whether
it's family, whether it's yourown self-sabotaging thoughts or

(35:25):
whatever.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Psychological warfare .

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Psychological warfare , you know.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
That's the best kind.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Oh man, it's great, because the reality of it is,
though, is there's, you know,somebody that's never kind of
dealt with that kind of stuffbefore and have dealt with that
kind of trauma or dealt withthat somebody messing with them
like that?
Like you need to know whereyou're at and you need to know
where your weaknesses are andyou need to know where your
buttons are.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
So as I'm talking to you, man, I'm realizing that the
physical aspect was not achallenge for you at all in the
military.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
So there is.
So it's not that it wasn'tchallenging right, isn't
challenging right, right, butlike the reality of it is, is to
be successful at that.
It's way more than that yeah,it's understanding your
environment.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Oh, yeah, yeah, understanding your capabilities,
yep understand theircapabilities.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Understanding guys that you work with their
capabilities wow, right.
Understanding your leadershipright, because in a day like
your mission set as you'regetting a mission right, you're
competing against other odas,right.
So a lot of it is like I needto build a relationship with my,
with these personnel.
They're here and because I needto, like, get resources and all
this other stuff that I need,like you know.

(36:29):
So, for instance, right.
So as a team sergeant, you havea team leader who is an officer
, right, so a lot of missions attimes are decided on how good
the officer is Makes sense,right.
So now my job as a teamsergeant I want to do the best
missions, okay.
So now I am going to build arelationship with whoever the

(36:50):
officer is in charge, who'spicking missions?
Right, and I'm grooming thatofficer to make sure that the
ODA is getting set up with thebest missions.
There you go, dude, right.
So there's like there's all ofthe.
It's almost like politicking.
It is man, and I tell guys allthe time you know you can apply
this at life, correct, right?
In Army they say, oh,performance and potential,

(37:10):
that's what you get rated on,your performance and potential.
I'm like no, there's four PsFinality and people.
You know Facts, facts In life.
In life, you take those fourthings, crush it.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Facts, dude.
Even if you face some type ofadversity, you're still going to
pretty much come out on top.
Yeah, you stick to that gameplan.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Yeah.
So like you have to understandthat because a lot of guys will
get stuck on that.
They're like my performance isgreat and I'm like, yeah, but
you're the best 18, Bravo, inthe battalion.
You're not acting like a teamsergeant.
So, even though yourperformance is great, your
potential is not there, becauseyou know what I mean, right, and
then your personality is shit.

(37:47):
Like you are a hammer foreverything, Absolutely.
Like you got to learn how to bea scalpel, you got to learn how
to do these other tasks orwhatever.
Because then people are likeokay, being breaking a glass in
a case of emergency, kind of warkind of guy, that's great, but
if you can't do this other stufftoo, people aren't going to
trust you to do the other stuff.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Hey guys, consider becoming a patron, where you
will get first exclusive dibs onthe video before it airs to the
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So that's also another way tosupport the channel.
Thank you, guys, appreciate allof you keep pushing forward.
Make sure you hit that link indescription below.
I'll tell you what, though.

(38:27):
A lot of that comes frominexperience and not realizing.
Yes, realizing right, becauseonce that person realizes and
turns it on, what I'm trying tosay is that's a learnable skill,
oh a hundred percent, right.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
So, but like, once you get some like
self-realization, that's likeone of the best superpowers, man
, absolutely.
You can like okay, hey, this iswhat I'm good at, this is what
I'm not good at, right, theseare things I need to work on.
Facts, like be thick skinnedwhenever somebody is like trying
to help you out, man, okay.
So with your mentality, man,you're sitting in a serious
school just analyzing everybody.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
Are you praying off of the weak?
No, I don't think really.
What I mean is sometimes, whenI see people quit, it motivates
me like okay, fuck, yeah, I'mstill here.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yeah.
So whenever there is notnecessarily in still school, but
on these other tough, difficultthings, like the physical
portion of it, when I see peopledrop off, I'm like I got this,
I got this right.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
So, like, because there is somesense of like it almost gives
you another set of like, driveand push, like another burst of

(39:32):
energy.
Burst of energy, yeah, yeah,because you're like I got this,
you know.
So once you get your green beretman, was there a ceremony?
Yeah, yeah, so we do it, do theceremony in that, and then, um,
and that thing there that was.
You know, obviously you do thiswhole course, you know, and
it's like, so there wasobviously a lot of pride.

(39:55):
You know a lot of like man, Ijust accomplished that, you know
, especially coming from peopledidn't even think I would be
making through basic training,let alone be a green beret like
There's like no way this guy'slike you know what I mean.
Like I go back home sometimestoo and I'm like man, I can't
believe how much you'veaccomplished.
Like, yeah, man, persistence,and just don't quit, right.
And then just like, do someself-realization and own things

(40:15):
that you've done wrong and like,hey, I'm not going to be that
person anymore.
Like right, like people getstuck on this, I did this shit
and I'm like all that takes isone day for you saying I'm not
that person anymore and actuallychange to be to start going in
a path you want.
Why do you?

Speaker 1 (40:31):
think people quit man .
I don't Whether it be tryoutselections, Whether it be tryout
selections.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
So a couple of reasons.
When I went through some ofthese things, I've seen guys
that would quit as soon as itrained and I'm like, what are
y'all doing?
Like as soon as it just got alittle bit tough, and I'm
thinking like, how did you thinkthis was going to be?
Like what did you think youwere signing up for?
You know, and in selection forme in the Q course, I put this

(41:00):
on such a pedestal that it wasso impossible to do that.
I'm just like when I got therenot that it wasn't tough, you
know, there were some parts likethe log PT was a smoker, the
star course was tough, team weekwas tough.
You know, there's times whereyou're just like, oh, my gosh
man, throughout the Q coursewhere I'm like, if I just let me

(41:24):
get through today, let me getthrough today.
Like you had days where you'rejust like you felt like quitting
, you know.
But you're like you know what,let me get through the day.
You know, let me get throughthis next hour, I can get
through this next hour, andyou're just doing that over and
over and over again untilfinally you're at the end and
you're like, oh, again, untilfinally you're at the end and
you're like, oh, we're done, youknow.
But yeah, I just don't know.
I don't understand why.
Maybe it's some self-sabotagingthought process.

(41:45):
You know, we did have someinstructors tell some students
like I don't give a shit whatyou do, you're not passing right
.
So then at the end of the day,like you're having, we went on
this one patrol this was an SUTand we went on this one patrol
this was an SUT and so all ofour equipment split up and this
guy is, you know, volunteering,withdrawing right before we go
on this patrol, right, and thewhole squad's like, don't quit,

(42:09):
don't quit.
Not that they didn't want himto quit, they didn't care that
he quit, but we got to carry hisshit.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
So now there's 80 more poundsof gear that we got to carry
because he's going to quit.
And he's like, oh, theinstructor said that I'm not
going to make it, no matter what.
And I'm like, bro, don't letthe instructor decide, you go to
the end, you know.
And then that's somebody else'sdecision.
But at the end of the day, if Igive 100% on something,

(42:29):
whatever, the chip fall.
The chips fall.
It's not you going to decidewhether I'm not going to make it
or not.
I, if you tell me, I don't carewhat you tell me, you're either
going to knock me out, I'mgoing to still go and once I get
to the end, that's somebodyelse's decision to make.
And if I don't make it, thenhey, that is what it is.
But I can live with that.
Correct, you know what I mean?
I can't live with me justquitting because some guy is
saying I'm not going to make it.

(42:50):
Correct, you know what I mean?
Teams are you like a new, brandnew member with season
experience?
Oh yeah, like back at that time, most of those guys, like you
know, I showed up, I think I wasman.
How old was I?
Between 24 and 26, I think.
Maybe 26 years old, I think,roughly, when I got to the uh an

(43:12):
oda.
A lot of those guys were, youknow, quite a bit older than I,
was Already seasoned in combatdeployments, combat veterans
yeah, veterans, or whatever.
And when I showed up to theteam originally, so I didn't
take leave or permissive TDYwhen I left, when I graduated

(43:34):
the Q course, when I earned mygreen beret after Robin Sage, I
didn't take no leave because Iheard that if you get there
first before the CSM, thesergeant majors put everybody
where they're going.
Then you get a chance to like,hey, where this is where I want
to go, right.
So I show up there and they'relike uh, csm doesn't have you
assigned anywhere where you wantto go so that did happen that

(43:55):
did happen, right.
So, uh.
So I get there and then I'mjust like man, I didn't know
anything about the battalion.
So I'm like, well, I don't know.
And he's like I'm like who'sdeploying?
And they go 1st Battalion'sgoing to Afghanistan and I'm
like that's where I want to go.
So I go over there to 1stBattalion.
They were just starting PMTmission training and um, but

(44:22):
obviously nobody told like thoseguys have already got their
roster already set up.
So now I'm like, oh, you'regoing to the b team.
And I'm like, shit, so the bteam is just like the support
effort for the odas, right.
So, uh, so I went there, didpmt with the beam with the b
team and then I came.
When we got back from that uh,pmt, one of the guys that was on
one of the odas was like, hey,he didn't re-enlist.
So then they uh got an openingand they're like, hey, you're

(44:45):
going to 726 oda, 726, oda, 726.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
So I went over there for my initial deployment do the
numbers stay the same as far asthe odas?

Speaker 2 (44:55):
so, uh, so, yeah, so, yes, so they had three
battalions Back then.
They used to have threebattalions, right, and the team
number stayed the same.
Then they added a fourthbattalion and then they changed
it up again.
But now they just changed itback to where it's all the old
numbers.
So all the old numbers arestill the same.
So ODA 726 are the same.

(45:17):
Oda 726 that was in RogerDonnelly, that was Medal of
Honor winner.
That's awesome, that's goodunit history.
Yeah, yeah, great unit history.
On there you can track yourODA's history back all the way.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
So, leading up to the deployment, what kind of
training were you guys doing?

Speaker 2 (45:37):
You know it was all combat-oriented, depending on
what the mission that set thatyou were, that you're going to
do.
But you know, gun trucks, uh,at that point too we still did
like pack animal training.
Give me like on horses anddonkeys.
That was still like a kind of athing back then at that time
too.
Yeah, so you're like, at theinitial time I ever got on a
donkey or a horse was a damngood class.

(46:00):
You're gonna get on this donkeyand this horse, right?
I mean so learning that stuff,yeah, so it just those tactics
is small unit tactics really.
Uh, mortars um, uh did a lot oflike berm drills, close air
support, calling cast.
I mean all that kind of stuff.
Now, do you have your own cagewith equipment drills, close air
support, calling casts?

Speaker 1 (46:20):
all that kind of stuff.
Now do you have your own cagewith equipment?

Speaker 2 (46:24):
Yeah, the team rooms are pretty solid right.
So, like I mean, every grouphas a little bit different setup
.
But yeah, so you have all ofyour team room right and then
under you know, you have anotherarea where you have all your
equipment right Sometimes it'sin the same building and then
you have an another area whereyou have all your equipment
right sometimes it's in the samebuilding and then you have an
arms room where you have allyour and your weapon systems and

(46:46):
that there.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
So were you impressed with the type of gear you were
getting outfitted with?

Speaker 2 (46:52):
yeah, even back then I mean it wasn't like, um, like
what it is now, right, but itwas still like better than what
I had whenever I came from, youknow, the conventional army, you
know.
So like that was still like wewere getting.
Well, that trip there, for thattrip to Afghanistan, you know,
we had called Gustavs.
The way we used to run our guntrucks were we'd have two 50

(47:16):
cals.
So for this trip we were in theHelmand province, right, so we
had two 50, 50 cows.
So for this trip, we were inthe Hellman province, right, so
we had two 50 cows.
So I had a 50 cow.
Mark 19, 50 cow.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
On that truck, that 50 cow, I had a 240 on one side,
so I had 50 cow, 240, 249,right and in the back of the
truck I had another 240.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
What kind of what did the truck look like?

Speaker 2 (47:36):
It was a GMV.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
A Humvee.
A Humvee, yeah, but without thedoors on the side.
Without the doors on the side,yeah, so you're talking about
there was 249?
.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
I'm talking about whenever I was, I'm talking
about in the gun truck.
As a turret gunner I had a .50cal, a .240.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Were they mounted.
Were the side weapons mounted?

Speaker 2 (47:58):
They were mounted yeah, cow, a 240 was.
Were they mounted?
Were the side weapons mounted?
They were mounted.
Yeah, then on the uh, the, the,the drivers or the tc had a
swing arm for a 240, holy shit,and the rear guy had a 240 holy
shit, dude, so that was your guntruck gun truck setups, you
know, and actually they changedbetween deployments.
Uh, we had a 60 millimetermortar on every gun truck, a
Carl G on every gun truck.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
Was the Humvee enclosed or open aired?

Speaker 2 (48:23):
It was open aired.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Okay, yeah, I'm trying to get the visual of all
those SF fucking vehicles man,that's a straight straight
special forces.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Yeah, yeah, because the reality of it is like so on
those trips, man, we were goingout, man some just three gun
trucks and three gun trucks andsome partner force, maybe three
or four Hiluxes, and we're goingout troops in contact every
time we went out.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
You said you were in the Helmand province.
Helmand, yeah, was that verymountainous in that area.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
I mean you had Highway 611 there, and then you
had the mountains there also,but you still had a lot of
desert there, so you had themountains blocking on one side.
So you're you know what I mean.
You had 611 in the helmandriver.
What year was this?

Speaker 1 (49:05):
this was 2007 okay, because because afghanistan
picked up again you remember itwas iraq got busy oh, it was a
while out west and then it wentback to afghanistan.
Got busy as fuck again to runthat time frame.
Yeah 2006,.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
2007 is when I, so I was there from 2007 to 2008,
2008 to 2009.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Did you see a change in the enemy?

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean the TTPs develop on kind of
what we're doing.
Right, you know what I mean.
So you have to kind of adjustyour TTPs.
You know, biggest thing, likewhen we initially got there, um,
so when we pulled in, so thattrip there was was interesting
because we originally went toman, I can't even think of the

(49:48):
fire base we were at when wewent into, uh, afghanistan, but
it was nice, it had like a pooland I was just like had like
everybody, it was like inside ofa building and everybody had
their own room and uh, I used,you know, I had already had a
couple combat deployments on myiraq trip, like we were, we were
living in like, yeah, littlegarbage, right, and I'm just

(50:10):
like man, you guys got it made.
This is easy, this ain't even adeployment, blah, blah.
And I'm like thinking at first,man, this is how sf rolls, like
this is pretty, you know, thisis you know.
And man, we were there for likea week and I'm like man, foot
in mouth, and then we, they weredoing a, a full clearing
operation of the Hellmanprovince, and I'm talking about

(50:32):
it was like old school, likeIraq, like a four line of troops
, like we I don't even how manylike we had tank.
It was fully like moved likethrough that, I don't even know
how many like we had tank, itwas fully like moved like
through that I don't even knowhow many hundred-plus vehicle
convoy it was and we wentthrough there and cleared
through the Humboldt Provinceand never came back.
We stayed there the whole timelike 10 months.

(50:52):
Really, yeah, never went back tothat old fire base.
I'd never even seen that firebase again and we stayed fob rob
the whole time.
Damn, yeah.
So, but that trip we wentthrough and there was an oda
that was like um, so we werewith like the forward line of
troops, right, and then likepeople were clearing out, right,
because they knew we werecoming.
So we really didn't.
We got a little sporadiccontact, wasn't a whole lot and

(51:14):
but there was this one oda thatwas up, it was clearing, like
probing up up on 6-11, and theywere just troops in contact,
they were getting after it right.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
Were they.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Yeah, and we were like hearing it on the radio and
like really, at this point,like me personally, like I
hadn't been really like had anylike really like troops in
contact or really any bigengagements yet.
So here I'm like itching, likelike hey, sir, why aren't we
going up there, Like you know,that kind of dumb shit?
Yeah, like the other thingabout trying to get out of it,
get into it, you know, and itwas funny, man, because that

(51:46):
team that was back in the dayswhen guys were getting away with
a lot of shit, the higherheadquarters were like, hey,
stand fast, don't probe anyfurther, you know.
And they went comms black, holyshit, dude.
They're just like bro, we'redoing whatever we want.
They were just getting after it, damn.
And I look at that back now andthey're just getting after it,
right.
And then finally they end uptaking I can't remember, I don't

(52:07):
know if it was an RPG or like arecoilless rifle, went right
through a mud hut and right intoone of their GMVs, right.
So they were out of commission.
Then they get back on the hornagain.
Hey, we need, we need some helpright after they're getting
some, some shit.
Yeah, they get some shit.
Hey, we need some help.
So at that point we probed up,uh, to where they were at, and
then from there like real world.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
You're like, oh shit, this is real I mean a bit,
let's, uh, let's take a quickbreak, real quick I'm gonna take
a piss, yeah, yeah yeah and uhyeah, we're about an hour into
it.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
Oh yeah, perfect.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Thank you.

(55:14):
Thank you good, leo.
All right, so those troops endup getting into contact.
Did you guys respond to that asqrf or anything?

Speaker 2 (55:23):
yeah, we responded and went straight up there, kind
of like their QRF, and thenonce that kind of broke the seal
and then it was just like gameon.
And then for the rest of thatdeployment we were just probing
and after you kind of have thatforward line of troops and
population starts coming back in, then it's game on everywhere
again.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
How large was the enemy um?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
so it's kind of hard to, it's hard to tell like
reality.
You get reports in or whatever,but it's not really like in,
like the movies where you seethe enemy you know what I mean
like they're in compounds.
Like they're in wood linesthey're in, you know caves.
Like they're in, like canals,like you know what I mean.
Like so when you're gettingengaged lines they're in, you
know caves.
Like they're in, like canals,like you know what I mean.
Like so when you're gettingengaged and it's troops in

(56:09):
contact, a lot of times it'sknown, likely, suspected, right,
and you're like because youdon't know Right, and the
reality of it is what?
Like it's not like the movieswhere you think like, oh, you
get shot at and you're like, oh,it's coming from that building
500 meters away.
That shit's not real right,because it takes being shot at a
significant amount of timebefore you can kind of tell.

(56:31):
Like when things are whizzingby you and you go okay, boom,
that's the general direction ofwhere it is.
Okay, you know what I'm saying.
So, like once you kind of getthat.
It took a little while, I thinkafter a while the oda was like
oh, boom, you can spot up on it.
But the initial, initial troopsin contact.
Obviously it's like kind ofchaos because you're, like known
, likely suspected to try tofigure out where the enemy was
actually engaging you at.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
So were they at a distance the majority of the
time.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Through those deployments.
I mean, there was all kinds ofthose deployments.
I'm telling you right now.
It was wild west.
At some points we were engaged,the ODA was engaged by less
than 50 meters, like off theroad.
Less than 50 meters.
Less than 50 meters.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
That's close as fuck man.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Close as shit, man, like running through, like there
was some pretty tough, therewas some all kinds of different
situations and this one herespecifically.
You know they were at distancebecause at that location, to
kind of give you like a visual,like you're kind of up like on a
little bit of a high groundright and kind of like the

(57:31):
desert and you kind of the lowerground there in the helmand
province you have like thebuildings, like the mud huts
right, 611, and then the helmandriver, that's green so.
So you have like a little bitof of height on them right.
So you have like that tackleadvantage.
Especially at that point theyhaven't started laying ieds on
that high ground yet.
Um, so you're doing kind ofberm drills and just probing
that way, and then no one likelysuspected, you know, so you
guys were taking fire uh fromthe ground up yeah, really yeah,

(57:54):
you guys had.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Then you guys had the um tactical elevation.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Yeah, so we had a elevation there and that's why,
like, a lot of those berm drillsare like great, are great,
because you can maneuver towhere, if they start shooting
you with an RPG or a recoil-lessrifle and recoil-less rifles
specifically you can hear assoon as it's fired.
And it's kind of like, if peopledon't know, it's kind of almost

(58:19):
like their equivalent of R CarlGustav.
Okay Right, r Carl Gustav iskind of equivalent of like an
AT-4, but you can just reload it.
Okay, right, so you hear theinitial poof, you know what I
mean, where it is, and then atthat point you're just like the
RTTP, rsop was the gunnercontrolled that vehicle.
So if I might back up, back up,then you back up to a point so

(58:41):
you have enough devil aid towhere that turret is just coming
over that elevation so I canengage the enemy and the rounds
are skipping up over right andor, like as the rpg comes,
you're backing up and they'rejust kind of coming over your
turret so it's kind of likehearing the mortar, because I
mean I have experience inhearing the mortar launch, yep,
and then be like hey move, fuck,yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
And I, you know, for the crowd out there, yeah,
there'd be like hey, move, fuck,yeah, right.
And I, you know, for the crowdout there, yeah.
There'd be times where I was onthe fob in Iraq and you can
hear boom or or, and you're likefuck, yeah, yeah, because it
was just a matter of time beforethe rounds started coming in.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Yeah, so like that's kind of where you like your
troops in contact.
A lot of it was, and obviouslythere's different because
there's different situations.
You may be down clearingcompounds or there's times where
you're clearing like actuallyin the village, and then now you
have a whole different set ofTTPs and how you react and
everything else there.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
How was it clearing villages and compounds?

Speaker 2 (59:37):
Was there a threat of mines?
So every deployment is a littledifferent.
In the Helmand province, right,there was initially where we're
clearing and probing through.
There are certain areas inthere you're not clearing man.
Why is?

Speaker 1 (59:49):
that, because you'll die how.
How so is it considered?
Don't black and don't fuckinglike you.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
So if you gotta look at it too, you're an oda, right,
you have gun trucks.
You have three gun trucks, yeah, right.
So I have maybe 12 guys.
I have to have people at thegun trucks.
So that means that I have adriver and a gunner at a minimum
of the gun trucks.
That's one, two, three, four,five.
That's six guys.
Now I'm gonna send six guys inthe green zone.

(01:00:18):
Like they wouldn't survive,like you know what I mean.
Like that's how bad it was, toa point to where you're taking
contact.
So you'd show, show up, womenand children would leave.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Because there was such a strong everybody.
Everybody was Taliban.
Everybody was, everybody wasTaliban.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Everybody was Taliban .
You go down there, everyfinding age male was Taliban,
like.
So like, at the end of the day,you, you, you.
But we had one operation wherewe had a whole candac commandos
like out there and, um, theybarely got 50, 150 meters into
the wood zone and they juststarted getting their.

(01:00:51):
There's just so much resistanceand at the end of the day, they
were just smart enough to see.
So if you start probing in someof those areas, yeah right,
like the smartest thing they cando is they'll just let you in
for 50, 100, 50, 100 meters.
Oh my god, you're not, you'redone.
Because those compounds aresurrounded.
Did you guys ever use?

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
recon by fire.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Yeah, we used a lot of tactics but at the end of the
day you really didn't have tohave recon by fire because they
would engage with you.
So what would happen?
You'd show up, women andchildren would start leaving the
area.
Women and children would leaveand you're like like, all right,
it's about ready to be game on,and then women and children
leave and then they would startengaging the ODA.
And then from there, at thatpoint, now you're, now you know,
at that point you're, you're,you're identifying, uh, enemy

(01:01:34):
locations, you know you'redropping casts, you're dropping
mortars, like we had.
The ODA was down, so pat by bythat, the end of that first
deployment, a second deployment,we would be troops in contact.
As soon as we got troops incontact, they would have the 60
millimeter mortars out andputting rounds on the enemy
within a minute.
And just like, boom, boom, boom, like, because violence of

(01:01:55):
action, whenever you only havean ODA, like violence of action
is what saves life Absolutely.
So like you have to.
That's why I had so many other,how I had so many weapons on
there right, if my 50 cal wentdown, I transitioned straight
over to my 240 right and startedlaying down and then I then,
once that went down, I'd youknow, I'd back up and reload.
That's why people don'tunderstand, like, like, once you

(01:02:15):
are troops in contact like thatand you've done that over and
over and over again, youunderstand the reason for
intention to detail.
It's a reason why your drillsergeants put that in your head
so young, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
Oh, the smallest fucking detail, the smallest
thing, and you're like listen,why is that even a thing?

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Why do I need to make my bed like that?
Why do I need to do this andthat?
Now I will say sometimes itgets lost on the reason for it.
Correct, Right, Because some ofthese guys are doing attention
to detail but they don'tunderstand the reason for it,
right?
Whenever we got to a point towhere you would show up to a new
location, whatever, like youknow whether you were driving or

(01:02:53):
were stopped and controlled, acompound or whatever, the first
thing you did was do a rangecard.
You're taking out your laserrange fighter and you're saying
okay, listen, so from here tohere, this is 400 meters.
Okay, I can be engaged by a PKM, I can be engaged by RPG and a
recolus rifle.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Hey, we're going to move back this is what I wanted
to ask you, yeah, and I'm gladyou're talking about it right
now.
So you get information that youneed to hit a compound or drive
to a compound or drive around acompound.
So you're telling me you woulddrive to the location ways back,
recon the area, do a range card, get the, the meters, the
distance.
What else did this wholeprocess look like?

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
So it kind of depended on what the mission was
.
A lot of times at that pointlike you're just, you're just,
you're, you're doing a react tocontact drill.
So react to contact, so you'rejust at this point, this point,
for this portion of of, likethis deployment, we're just
driving up to locations and comeon Absolutely Picking a fight,
absolutely All we're picking afight.

(01:03:49):
And at that point then you're,you know, you're, you're, you're
looking at.
Okay, hey, listen, if I'm goingto be engaged, where am I going
to be engaged from?
Right, I'm putting the data onmy tne, right, so I have it if I
need it.
A lot of times I'd free gun it,but if I knew there's a part, I
had that tne there, just incase.

(01:04:09):
Right, um, guys are alreadyknowing their deflection, given
their.
Okay, if I gotta hit a target,what is it at right, this is
what people.
I've already got a nine linealready ready.
I already know that stuff likeso, all these things that like
these attention to details andstuff that you can prepare
pre-planning.
Pre-planning because, like,when shit hits the fan you don't
have time.
Like the, the fact that you canlimit how much decision making

(01:04:30):
you need to make in stressfulcombat situations, the more
effective you're going to beit's not just combat, though,
it's police, it's lawenforcement, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
You know, I was in corrections, it's corrections.
You know people think, oh, thisperson is solid.
It's not that they're solid,it's that they've already
rehearsed everything prior tomaking contact.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
Exactly you know what I mean and like so, like that
thing that is so important, thatlike that stuff is done,
because the reason why you startrealizing it is because of
wisdom, right, Because after awhile, you know originally, you
know we first got there andyou're winging it, and you're
like like, okay, this has got tochange.
Man, like you know what I mean.
And you're like because we weregoing out and, um, we would go

(01:05:07):
out for you know, four to sevendays at a time, come back, do a
refit and then go back out.
We got the resupply set prettygood to do a resupply bundle
there.
I mean, we go be black on ammo.
I'm talking about three guntrucks that are carrying as much
ammo as it can possibly holdand the reason why we had to go
back was because we needed moreammo Really.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Going black on mortars, carl G's 50-pound Like
I don't think people understandthat I'm in the province Once
you go black.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
No, I don't, that's what I'm asking you, so once you
go black, is it automatically afucking return of base?

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
So originally like obviously, uh, the, the captain,
the team, the leadership isdoing a good like you know check
, like okay, where are we at?
What's our status?
Right, right, lace report yeah,exactly so to make sure our
status is good or whatever.
And then there's times whereyou can kind of plan that right,
and then at the end of the daylike okay, hey, we're getting
low, we need to go back, right,but then the birds would start
at night.
We'd get a resupply from thebirds, so the birds would drop

(01:06:00):
it in.
So then that point it kind ofallowed us to stay out a little
bit, allowed us to stay outlonger.
So you guys were busy as fuck,bro.
We had a board I'll say itbecause we're on this show we
had a board when we come backand the team guys, like the
solid guys, would go dayswithout killing and it would
never get past a day or two.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
That's good, I mean, and they have very good, it's
good to have that on on the ourside, the american fighting so
uh, so yeah, so it was.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Um, it was a, uh, it was the.
The oda was solid man.
Those dudes were a good uh,good, good um, fuck you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
You, I'm told your mind operates at a higher level,
were you?
And were you ever thinkingabout what the enemy was
thinking of?
Like, damn, these guys arefucking us up, or these guys are
good um man, I don't, I don'tknow.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
So I think the enemy probably at that point they're
just, and you got to think aboutit too.
It's like we're in theircountry, right.
So there's some likerealization there, we're in
their country.
They're living in mud huts,don't have shit else to do.
They're probably just like I'mbored.
Let's go shoot at the americanslike.
You have to kind of look, putyourself in their shoes.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
You don't think there was more to it, like jihad or
religion?

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Yeah, you had all that stuff in there too.
You had a little bit about allof it, like you know what I mean
, but like the reality of it is,this is combat, this is war,
right, so this is what peopledon't understand, right, but

(01:07:31):
you're being engaged, yeah, fromcompounds, right, like the
enemy doesn't come out here andjust say, hey, I'm right here,
They'll shoot at you fromwherever.
Right, facts you know.
So like the reality of it is isnow, you know you get these
casualties that happen and youjust turn people.
It's just a total shit show man.
I get it like war.
This is one thing I talk about.
War like war is like peopledon't understand.
It's like, oh, it's funwhenever you're winning.

(01:07:55):
Well, I don't think it's everfun well, yeah, but I think like
people like get this like thiskind of like this mentality
right, like it's like, oh, it'sjust like this, great thing.
But it's not so much fun whenyou're getting your teeth kicked
in, right, whenever yourbrothers are getting killed,
right, whenever there's peoplethat are that are close to you,
that are dying and you're likeand this isn't, this isn't kind
of what I remember we killed adude in front of his two young

(01:08:16):
children.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
Yeah, and all I could think about like those two
young children are gonna hateamericans.
Oh, yeah, forever yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
So like it's like the reality of this you'll start
setting in.
You know, I tell these youngguys that all the time I'll make
be careful.
What you wish for man,absolutely, because like once
you get it, like it's going tochange you.
There's no way to get around it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
You know would you guys do um battle assessments?
Would you ever go into alocation after you made contact?
So?

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
it depends on the location.
Like I said, the Helmandprovinces are in that time.
You're not going in doing BDA,you're not.
No, you wouldn't Like.
People don't understand.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
Like I'm telling you there's no, you could not.
Did you guys ever have to callin?

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
a nine line.
Yeah, we call in nine lines.
Did you ever have to treatwounded taliban or wounded enemy
?
Um, yeah, we had, like we had.
Well, they never said they werewounded taliban.
Oh, we're just out, we just gotshot.
Nobody comes in.
It's like, hey, you just shotme.
Oh, I was just.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
I was just farming, I was moving my wheelbarrow and I
got shot like you know what Imean oh, really oh that how
convenient, you know, damn dudeso no, it's good to know, man,
it's good to know war, likeeverything it entails oh yeah
yeah, so I know we were talkingabout briefly before we started
recording, and I asked you aboutthe movie the lone survivor.

(01:09:40):
yeah, uh, the marcus latrellstory, um, and we were talking
about tactics.
I mean, if you want to go andpiggyback off, what we were
talking about was how and I knowyou don't want a Monday morning
quarterback, right, and that'snot what we're here for but
you're like, hey, man, they hadoptions up there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
Yeah.
So this is the thing it's likeI always try not to.
I always try not to like,actually, because there's things
that I've learned throughout mycareer, that I've learned
through mistakes made and nowI'm like okay, because I that
those trips that that I've made,that I've seen other guys make,
and through that teammate, hasbrought me to where I'm at now.

(01:10:19):
Right, right, is that the samedecision I would have made back
in 2006, 2007?
I could have been in the samesituation that they were in
Correct Because, like I didn't,what you don't know sometimes
you don't know that you haveoptions to right.
You don't know what you don'tknow.
You don't know what you don'tknow until you start like doing
this for a while and then yourtactics kind of change and you
start thinking outside the boxand kind of all this other stuff

(01:10:39):
.
You know there are other, thereare all, always are other
options.
You know that you could.
That can happen.
Um, I'll tell you one of ourTTPs whenever we would have like
that is, you would just takethe partner force or take the
whoever that was civilian withyou, right, like.
So at the end of days, we've hadsimilar like situations to
where, um, we're like okay,either like partially

(01:11:02):
compromised, or maybe we justdon't want to get shot at that
day.
Facts Right, you all are comingwith us and we put them in.
You know, hey, listen, you'rerunning with us.
And then at the end of the day,they would stay with us the
whole time, right, and thenwhenever we did the X fill right
, they would come straight withus to the bird and we'd leave
them there, get on the bird andthen fly off.

(01:11:24):
So, like, it's easy for me tosay like that now, because I
have the ttp experience to dothat, right, um, but there's
also times there too, you know.
You know, I try not to armchairquarterbacking, because there
are certain times where I knowthings that I have done in
combat where I'm like that wasstupid, because you start almost
getting this, like this senseof like invincibility at a time,

(01:11:47):
right, especially after you'vedone it for a long time, right,
and you're like well, maybe that, maybe that played a role in it
.
The mindset like we're good fuck, yeah, we're good, right, and
you don't think of, like, theconsequences of some of the
decisions that you make, right?
So, um, but only thing we cando is like, this is the data
that we had at that time, thisis the decision we made and this

(01:12:08):
we move forward with it.
You know, so it's, it's.
It's tough, man, especiallybecause the situation like that,
you know, those were stillpeople's husbands, fathers, sons
.
So, like, I always try to bevery, very careful because I
don't want to discredit anyperson and their decisions that
they made at that time.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
I'm not gathering that from you at all.
It was a good topic, talkingpoint of things that happened in
war, yeah, things that dohappen in war.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
And a lot of times you're just not thinking or just
don't know, or kind of what wetalked about before, don't plan
properly and you don't thinkabout all those contingencies
that could happen, the morecontingencies that you can think
of that can happen.
When all those contingenciesthat could happen, the more
contingencies that you can thinkof that can happen.
When those things do happen,you're not even questioning it,
you already have an answer forit.
You can't get everything, butyou can get as close as you
possibly can.
You know, right, like this isthe thing about.
Like, so at the end of the day,like, if I go to a compound and

(01:12:57):
I have the, I've done ananalysis, mission analysis of
the enemy position and wherethey're at right, and I take
contact from them, right, andlet's say that a vehicle goes
down, the answer to how far theenemy QRF is already there.
I can look at the map and I canask you hey, listen, my 18 Fox,
my intel guy.
Hey, where's the next enemylocation?
Oh, it's in this city, okay,well, how long would it take

(01:13:19):
them to get together, get theirgun trucks and get to this
location?
35 minutes, boom, somethinggoes wrong.
We have 35 minutes.
How long does our qrf take toget there?
60 minutes, oh shit, we got aproblem.
Okay, I haven't even hit theground yet and I'm already
gathering all this informationbecause I'm like preparing,
because for the worst casescenario, right, so hey, so
let's plan ahead.
Can we bring our qrf a littlebit closer so they can be there

(01:13:42):
in 20 minutes?

Speaker 1 (01:13:44):
Did the worst case scenario ever happen to you in
Afghanistan?

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
Oh man, I mean there was a lot of like really bad
worst case scenarios happeningthe certain times.
One specifically was um thattrip, uh, we were in Kajaki,
sofla, pushing through doing anoperation, and the 82nd was um
clearing on the other side ofthe Helmand River and on their

(01:14:12):
exfil one of the birds got shotdown like 100 meters from our
location.
So one of the schnucks got shotdown.
So that was like bad.
Did you have to respond to that?
Yeah, yeah, we were the first.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
What was that?

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
scene like, oh man, it was rough because, like,
obviously, when those thingshappen, like all this data is
coming in because we don't know,the ODA doesn't know, Are those
guys still in the bird?
Did they get out on the otherside of the Helmand River?
Is it a bunch of 82nd guys?
Is it just a crew?
Like who is it that's still inthere, you know?

(01:14:46):
And then we get to the crashsite.
We start taking heavy contact.
The 82nd was with us.
They ended up getting hit.
We ended up getting to thewreckage and then we don't know
how many personnel are therethat we have to recover off from
there.

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
Was the helicopter destroyed?

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
Oh yeah, it was a big ball of flames.
It was like spread all over theplace.
So yeah, it was spread all overthe place and then we secured
the objective and then, like wewent Winchester I don't know how
many birds or you know, theenemy personnel are trying
to—they were actually beingpretty aggressive at that point
because obviously a bird wentdown right Even at night.

(01:15:26):
Normally at night they usuallykind of even then they calm down
because they know they don'thave really the advantage.
But that night obviously, youknow, they were like, hey, we
just shot down a bird.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
Did the bird get shot down during the day or during
the night?

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
It was right at.
You know, dusk, it was.
It was all.
It was dark, though, when thebird got shot down.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
And, ultimately, how long did that operation take of
having a fight?

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
off the enemy and recover the.
So, um, we were there before.
Then we were there.
I can't remember how long wegot there before they came in
maybe a day or two, and then,once the bird got shot down,
we're there all the next, maybea day or two, and then, once the
bird got shot down, we're thereall the next, all that night,
all the next day, and then, um,uh, you know, we're, we're there

(01:16:12):
at the site, like all night.
We covered all the personneland then we pushed back out of
the green zone a little bit andprovided overwatch on the crash
site.
You know, uh, which was thebest tactical decision, right?
So we did that.
And then the thing that reallysucked this is the one thing
where you really have an issuewith right, they made us we had

(01:16:37):
to go all the way back to ourfire base, which was a full day,
like you know drive, goingthrough a gauntlet of like
theiest place.
You know what I mean like.
So, so we, so we, we, when wewent back, I can't remember at
that point, I think we went backto um through the desert and we
grow through poppy fields toavoid the, uh, the ieds, right?

(01:16:58):
So we get there.
And as soon as we get there,they're like, hey, y'all have to
go back to secure the wreckage.
And I'm like, are my 50 cowsdifferent than your 50 cows?
Like, why didn't y'all?
Because the reality, thetactically sound thing to do,
was for our oda to stay thereand secure the objective to make
sure nobody else comes in.

(01:17:18):
Nobody else comes in.
They don't plat any ids, right,they don't.
They don't booby trap the damnthing, right?
They don't take a bunch ofpictures and all this other shit
, right?
And then have the other elementcame through.
So we go up there and we convoyback.
You know two big-ass recordsand then a whole bunch of other
gun trucks and they have like,I'm like, are your 50 cals

(01:17:39):
different than mine?
Like what's going on here?
Well, was that a poor fuckingjudgment call?
I think, for the end of the day, this is the problem.
At that point, and depending onwhere we're at with the war, we
had all the combat experience.
The SF guys were going out andgetting after it all the time
and I always used to get this.
All the time I was like, oh,these guys don't have the
experience.
And I'm like they don't havethe experience because you're

(01:18:02):
like listen, these guys can comeout here and and do it you know
, were they regular army, bigarmy no, at this point I want to
say that one was the brits.
Oh, it was the brits yeah, thebrits who wouldn't leave the
wire unless the sfs court.
So like I'm just like, oh man, Iwas pissed, you know but that
happened all the time it didhappen all the time and I'm like
so we used to have to go backand get our own supplies from

(01:18:25):
kandahar.
So we used to leave fab rob togo to kandahar to get a whole
bunch of jingle trucks andconvoy them back there, while
we're not out, going out anddoing combat operations.
Right, and I'm like isn't there, mos is supposed to be doing
this shit, because nobody elsewould would do it, because
they're like oh, it's dangerous.
I'm like no shit dangerous.
That's why we have an army,right, like you know what I mean

(01:18:46):
.

Speaker 1 (01:18:49):
So like that was really, really frustrating.
So what was going through yourbrain as you're heading back to
the crash site, man?

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
So heading back to the crash site was rough,
because now we're on 611.
This is the main highway rightand I'm like, oh, we're going to
get jacked up.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
Were you in a leadership position.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
What's up?
Were you in a leadershipposition?
No, I was brand new cherry.
Oh, you were brand new cherry.
This was my initial trip to SFand I'm like, holy shit, this is
what I'm getting.
This is like I used to think Iwas a tough kid and I'm like, oh
man, like no, this is real,this is, you're trying to kill

(01:19:29):
me, man.
So uh, so yeah, so like I wasjust like, oh my gosh, this is a
total shit show, you know.
But luckily we got to the crashsite.
Um, they loaded up the, uh, thewreckage that they could.
From there, we didn't get anytroops in contact and end up
getting it, taking us straightback to well, that's a good
thing.
It's a good thing, well, becauseour our, our captain and our
cct or a jtac at that time.

(01:19:49):
Winchester didn't and took careof everybody that night before
like, luckily, they.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
You know what I mean did you guys have uh sniper
elements and or the ability tocall in airstrikes?

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
yeah, we were airstrikes all night long that
night, like we airstriked allnight long.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
I'm talking about, like in general, throughout the
deployment.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
Yeah, yeah.
So well, there were some timeswhere, like, because you have to
like, you had certain dependingon who was on station, right,
so it was still NATO was there.
So you may have a bird that wason station that was from
another country and their roesometimes would not align with
ours, so then they wouldn't wantto stop drop, you know, but

(01:20:31):
like the ccts and the j tax thatwere very, very experienced,
would call them off if theywould get certain birds from
certain countries and be like,nope, you can leave station, and
they'd pull them up, push themoff and get somebody else in
station.
You know what I To drop.
So we ended up getting oneparticularly time where the ODA
this was a different, not thesame trip, this was a different

(01:20:52):
trip.
It was still in the HelmandProvince the ODA got hit.
They were going down 611 andthey got key holed right, pretty
much like you're going pastthese alleyways, right, and so
the enemy was waiting.
They waited for the first truckto go through and now they're

(01:21:13):
set up and once that secondtruck comes through so at the
end of the day you get thisalleyway All they have to do is
wait for that, the front of thatvehicle to come by and they
just opened up right and thatone, I think I don't know
exactly what, hit them.
We've seen the truck afterwardsbut it was like a.
If I was to guess it lookedlike it was probably like a Spig
9.
It went, and this time thistrip we had RGs and it went

(01:21:36):
straight through that RG likebutter right.

Speaker 1 (01:21:39):
Could have been an EFP maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
Yeah, but like they didn't really have EFPs like
that, like an IED, like theywere taking contact, so like as
soon as they engaged with thatweapon system, right, and it
went straight through the RG,they started opening it up on
PKMs and everything else, right,and those guys that were in
that truck man, were like pinneddown pretty good.
You know, we had one Terp.

(01:22:04):
One of the guys was sitting.
They switched spots right, likeright before they went in there
, and then when the SPIG-9 wentthrough it took off one of our
Terp's legs.
What is a SPIG-9?
Is it a?

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
round like a sable round.

Speaker 2 (01:22:18):
So a SPIG-9 is just like it's a recoilless rifle,
right, but it's a little bitbigger than that right.
Cordless rifle, okay, right, um, but it's a little bit bigger
than that, right.
And then the there are somekind of there are some rounds,
that that there's.
You know russian technologythat they had where you can go
through some of that stuff.

(01:22:38):
Part, there is another one.
There's certain things I don'tknow.
I remember when I wasinstructor at the weapons
committee it was like,classified on it it wasn't a
spig nine, it was something else.
So I don't know what's beenclassified or declassified.
So I'm trying to like, not gocrazy on certain things because
I don't know.
You know what I mean, yeah, butwas there any?

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
uh, was there ever an incident or a time where you
felt like you were gonna diebecause it got so mad?

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
Oh yeah, all the time , like all the time, like it was
just constant.
So I would say for me and Ithink most of the guys on that
team I would say, because I wasa gunner, I felt like I had more
control.
Okay, right, these guys thatare just sitting there as the
driver and the TC, like them, Ikind of feel for those guys

(01:23:24):
because they got to trust me,that that I'm doing what I'm
supposed to be.
You know what I mean, becausethey're just sitting there just
like, oh shit, I hope Terry'slocking it down, because if not,
so like to me, that put a lotof like, like responsibility on
me.
So, like I really made surelike violence of action was not
a problem, Right, but like thetroops in contact didn't really

(01:23:48):
the initial one was initial oneswere kind of a little tough and
you're like, oh shit, this isreal, but as it kind of went on,
they didn't bother me as somuch there were.
There were some times wherethere are some really really
close ones to where, like RPGsare banging up off the trucks
and you're like Whoa shit up offthe trucks and you're like whoa
shit, that was close, you knowincoming coming in, and you're
like they start bracketing on us, like there's some things that
you're just like, oh shit, youknow, um, uh.

(01:24:11):
So there's some close calls butthe ones, truthfully, that got
me the most is driving with theieds man.
You know.
Like, because you're goingthrough, like you don't know,
like that's the constant anxietyand like a lot of people don't
understand this, they're like,oh, you know, you have some of
these vets and some of theseguys are like, oh, you didn't
see much combat and I'm like,yeah, but you're rolling around,
like that's even worse, in myopinion.

(01:24:32):
I'm driving around, I can'treturn fire and then like boom,
a vehicle in front of me blowsup and everybody I know is gone.
Oh, it's a shitty feeling, man,it's a terrible feeling, right.

(01:24:56):
And then so like we had reallygood TTPs on how to do that, but
like we'd be driving, you know,in convoy and our you know like
I hit two IEDs while I was inAfghanistan.
Luckily I had one.
We, our gun truck, hit one inon 611, just getting ready to
get up on our fire base and I'mlike, how did they put an ied
there?
Like we have a guard I can seethe guard tower like how did
they get an ied this close rightand I'm like our partner force
was why I'm like, how did theyget the idea this close?
But luckily it hit right in thefront of the gmv, you know,
engulfed the uh, the gmv I broke, you know, I ended up breaking

(01:25:18):
my ribs on that one, but itwasn't crazy, right.
Um, it could have been wayworse, right, right.
And then we hit one in an RGthat took off the tire.
But, like on that trip, likeguys were, you know, it was just
a common thing, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:33):
What is 611, like a main supply route Like MSR Tampa
yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
it's just like a road .
It was Highway 611.
Hardball it's the main road inHellmand province that connects.
You know, uh, you know, sanginkajaki sofla is it hardball?
No, it's all, it's all dirt.
It's all dirt, damn dude.
Well, it was dirt at that time.
I don't know what.
I don't know what it is now.

Speaker 1 (01:25:57):
Yeah, but was it like double lane, four lanes?
What is it?

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
no, just two lanes, two lanes, two lane, shithole,
dirt, dirt road.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
Damn were they prone to enemy attacks yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
so like from there, like.
So the reality of the highway611 was is like once you're
there and once we got there, sooriginally, when we originally
got there, we're using 611 for alittle while, right, yeah.
And then, uh, then you know, westart.
You know, the ambushes startand ieds were like okay, we
gotta got to change DTP becauseno American force was in there
and nobody was doing it.

(01:26:30):
So it gave us a little bit oftactical advantage.
But now that we set a patternRight, okay, now we got to
change the pattern right.
So now, as we're leaving thefire base, we drive through
poppy fields, we drive in thedesert, we zigzag all over the
place, you know driving thedesert, we'd zigzag all over the
place, you know so like youwouldn't be hitting ieds.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
Now, as you're driving through the poppy field,
are you just driving overpoppies?

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
yeah, you're just like.
It's like just you know what Imean.
It's like because they're notgonna put ieds in the correct,
because they're trying to growproperty.

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
We drive all through that, right, yeah so was there a
large drug trafficking networkin your area?

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
oh yeah, all helmet province.
That's their main source ofincome.
Opium is opium, yeah, yeah, andlike that's staying there too
and that's what we kind ofknowing where you're at and like
doing a mission analysis and alot of stuff.
You know when you could get inthe green zone when they were
harvesting poppy, they wouldn'tfight you during that time
because if you're fighting thenthey can't harvest their opium,
damn right, so at that.

(01:27:25):
So at that point you're likeokay, if I want to get like
weapons caches or whatever and Ineed to get in there, that's
the time I want to do that.
So you're, you know what I mean.
So, like all these things likethat you can like there's a lot
into like combat and that stuffthat guys really don't kind of

(01:27:47):
Was the Did you tell you guyswere receiving with a fairly
accurate as far as did you guysget high value targets that you
were supposed to go afterDifferent trips?
We had some different like HVTsthat we you know, if we were
close by, we would like possiblyhit that trip.
There was mainly just react tocontact.
We were just there just to picka fight.

(01:28:08):
Man, I was just, I was justthere to get after it.
You know, there's some othertrips that we, um, we did.
I did a prison raid, which wasactually later on, and how was
that?
Um, that was pretty, that wasgood.
You know, um, it's not like aprison raid Like you think, like
a prison prison like in the us,like you know what I mean.
It's not like a prison likethat.
There's just a whole bunch ofpeople in a mud hut, they're

(01:28:28):
just being confined.
Um, so I did that one.
I can't remember what year Idid that.
I was a team sergeant when I wedid that one.
So, uh, we did another one thatwas actually pretty good.
This was with our oda, I can'tremember what trip it was.
We did a um, uh, like an ID,like a pretty big HVT at that

(01:28:50):
time.
We ended up hitting, you know,but most of that was like, if
you're looking at the really,really high, like level level
ones, like the HVTs, usuallythey're bringing in, they're
doing a lot of planning andcoordination, front for it, that
there's another asset that'sjust focuses on that to go hit
those targets.
There's one time, I think onone of our trips I think it was

(01:29:11):
our initial trip there was areporter that was, um, a hostage
, damn right, but it wasn't a usreporter, it was a foreign
national reporter and there wassome intel on it.
So the oda got that intel andthey're like we're prepping to
do it, like they were possiblywanting us to do it, but the
reality is what they're wantingus to do and where it was
located at.

(01:29:31):
We're like, hey, listen, likethis isn't and the intel wasn't
good, you know.
And then, once they confirmedintel wasn't good, we ended up
doing the operation, you know.
But that was just because theintel was like it was at our
location at that time.
And they're like, hey, we wantsomebody to hit it, do it quick.
So, like, all that stuff playsinto a part.
You know on what you're, whatyou're doing, or sometimes

(01:29:52):
you'll, you'll hit clear throughsome compounds or whatever and
come across.
Oh, hey, we ended up hitting aHPT.
They had, you know, systems tocheck guys right Later on, as
the war started progressing, youknow they had a good system of
like okay, hey, who is this guy,you know, is he on the target
list or whatever, versus justhaving some baseball card or

(01:30:13):
something to look at?
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:30:14):
Right, what type of relationship did you guys have
with your interpreters?

Speaker 2 (01:30:17):
So we had a good relationship.
We had one guy who was with uspretty much the whole time.
Man, he's in the state side now.
He is he's the one guy thatlost his leg, so he was with us.
Man, he'd been with SF.
You can't even tell he's aninterpreter.
Like the dude looked like an SFguy.
He was an Afghani but like hewas working with SF guys since

(01:30:40):
he was like 13, 14 years old,talked like an American, like
didn't talk like american, talklike an sf guy chewing
copenhagen, oh yeah, just likeand uh and like.
So he, you know he was a.
He was a great asset becauseunderstanding the culture right,
you have to understand theculture and a lot of times you
know these guys, uh, the enemyare using these icons they're

(01:31:01):
talking back and forth, right,and there's all kinds of chatter
coming on the icon as you'redriving or flying, whatever
right, and you're having a goodinterpreter knowing are they
talking about us?
Are they talking about somebodyelse?
What you interpret that likethe tactical advantage on that,
like you can't put a value onthat, like you know what I mean.
Like that guy was able to putus, get us out of some really

(01:31:22):
shitty situations and let usknow before they actually came.

Speaker 1 (01:31:26):
Now were their lives at risk for working with
Americans.

Speaker 2 (01:31:30):
Oh yeah, of course you know we had Terps that, like
parents, didn't even know theywere out helping the US right,
because they were living inanother location you know what I
mean and coming out there andhelping us in, like the Helmand
Province or whatever.
You know that trip.

(01:31:51):
We ended up losing a coupleturps, that trip you know, as a
result of a what?
As a result of an contact?
Yeah, yeah, they end up gettingkilled fast forward to the
withdrawal of afghanistan.

Speaker 1 (01:31:59):
I'm sure you saw it on television.
Oh yeah, kabul airport yeah,what was your thoughts as you
were watching that unfold?

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
oh my gosh man, I was like I don't even know how to
say it like there's a 12 yearold kid playing call of duty
that could have done a betterwithdrawal plan than that whole
shit show.
Like you know what I mean, I'mjust like I did not understand,
like how some of the smartestpeople allegedly allegedly in

(01:32:26):
leadership positions could bethat dumb?

Speaker 1 (01:32:29):
I don't think they were dumb, man.
I think they were justfollowing the agenda yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:32:33):
But so like this is the thing about.
It is like anytime you withdrawon anything, right, it should
have been a, a plannedwithdrawal and there should have
been a backstop.
So if I was gonna just off thecuff the cuff and I'm like, okay
, we're going to have awithdrawal plan, I'm going to
say, okay, hey, the first basewe're going to withdraw is X
base.
We're going to draw it overhere right to this location.

(01:32:55):
If you engage us, I am going tokill everybody around there and
I'll be here longer.
One US personnel is shot.
You just bought yourself alonger ticket, do you understand
that?
Right?
And then, from there, okay, youmet all requirements.
Now I push back a littlefurther.

(01:33:15):
Whatever that looked like, youknow, obviously you're going
down and kind of, okay, hey,what makes what key areas?
Do you want to hold longer, orwhatever?
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:33:24):
What about destroying ?

Speaker 2 (01:33:24):
equipment.
Oh well, oh well, yeah, that'sjust common sense, man.
Like you know, what I mean andthat's the thing about it there
too is like there's someequipment that you're in need
there to conduct combatoperations and some equipment
that you know.
You know, I've always I lookedat that, because there's times,
like even during the gulf war,like they I heard them like
they're just pushing shit off ofships, like some crazy stories.

(01:33:46):
I'm like it's like we spent allthis money on this stuff and we
just leave it there and abandonit.
You know, like does themilitary not have a plan for
this?
Like what do we do?
Like I'd like to look I neverlooked back in World War II.
Like what do we do with allthat equipment at that point
whenever that war was over?
You know, like there's maybesome financial you know reasons

(01:34:07):
why.
Hey, it's, it costs us lessmoney to leave it.
You know, destroy it there thanto bring it back.
Like I don't know, like whatthe brains, like some people,
think, but like to me, I can'twrap my head around it.
You know, um, but to like leaveit there and not destroy it,
like that's even worse.
You know, especially certainkey things, right, um, and now

(01:34:27):
you know you'll have arguments.
Well, they need the technology.
There is maintenance stuff thatyou have to have on that stuff
so that they're only gonna beable to use certain things for a
certain amount of time.
And they got to have themaintenance to to fix it, to use
it.
But still, the whole, it's notjust that, it's the propaganda
that's able to use by keepingthat stuff there and keeping it
used.
You spend all this time in thiscountry and all these resources,

(01:34:49):
all this bloodshed, and thenyou pull out that shit show and
then how can the enemy be like?
Well, we won this war.
Well, you know what I mean?
Because they're just because ofthe withdrawal of the shit show
of how they did you know?
And then the reality of it isis like the there were American

(01:35:10):
personnel, I don't care who.
It says, there's Americanpersonnel.
They left in Afghanistan.
I believe it.
Oh, a hundred percent, Ibelieve it.
So, and this is the thing aboutit is is I don't care what your
personal opinion is on whatever, but you gave somebody a us
citizenship right from anothercountry.
They're your citizen now.
Facts, right.
So, like now, you did not like,give them time to come back to

(01:35:31):
where they're at.
Like that whole process.

Speaker 1 (01:35:34):
There is like a so how would you feel if you were
one of those american citizensin afghanistan and they just
left your ass?

Speaker 2 (01:35:42):
Oh man, like so this is the thing about it.
There too, it's like, you know,if they put all this effort in
in to serving their country byhelp serving our country, right,
and then we gave themcitizenship you know what I mean
and then you just left themthere, like how can you not feel

(01:36:03):
abandoned?
But then, at the same token,you're still trying to get to
the US because, like, you'regoing to die, your family is
going to be at risk, you know,by just staying here.
You know, but there's sometimes, like, where it's like, why
wasn't that part of it Like,okay, all these people helped us
, we're going to givecitizenship to these people.
And if there was a decision notto get citizenship to somebody

(01:36:26):
else, are we okay with the lossthat that's going to provide?
Because everybody that helpedus is on the chopping block?

Speaker 1 (01:36:34):
That's what I find to be immoral and unethical.

Speaker 2 (01:36:36):
Yes, exactly Because the thing about it is.
It's like was that not even aconversation Behind closed doors
?
Did they even talk about it, ordid nobody even give a shit?
I'll just be honest I don'tthink they gave a fuck.
Yeah, that's the thing about itand that's like the shitty
thing.
To say like absolutely, yeah,it's in a day like you can be
like okay, well, you know,whatever this decision is for

(01:36:58):
what you do, but not even talkabout it and not even consider
it shows me how much of likezero you know.
Empathy or ethical decisionsthat you're even kind of even
considering, like war is hell,and there's decisions that we
have to make.

Speaker 1 (01:37:10):
Right I'm like, but that was foul you know and and
I'm dude I'm part of aspatriotic as it comes, man, but
that is embarrassing.
Yeah, you know that that's anembarrassing thing that our
country did, man, because notonly that is, people will always
remember that.
Oh yeah, why the fuck would Ihelp you when you did that to
the last people that?

Speaker 2 (01:37:26):
we did that in vietnam with the mountain yards,
did we?
Yeah, I don't know, I'm notfamiliar with that history yeah,
but like um, so that's the.
You know that it's.
It's.
It sucks man fuck dude.
So you recently retired fromthe military yep, retired in uh
june this last year, mancongrats on the retirement dude,
yeah, so what is it that you'redoing now?
So right now I'm doing coaching, consulting Nice, yeah, where

(01:37:51):
can people find you?
Right now I do Instagram.
What's your handle?
It's terrymwilsonjr.
Okay, yeah, and you're inFlorida.

Speaker 1 (01:38:06):
Yep in Florida, in the panhandle area.
What, uh?
What last words do you have forthe?

Speaker 2 (01:38:08):
crowd, man, if you can leave an impactful message.
Um, I would say, you know,especially with the veterans,
man, it's just like they'reyou're always in the fight.
Like there's another mission,like transitioning out of the
military was was very tough forme and I think it's tough for a
lot of veterans.
You know, uh, losing theirpurpose and kind of not knowing

(01:38:32):
you put a hundred percent intosomething you know and then then
all of a sudden it's done.
You know, like you just have tofind another purpose, man.
And just like you know what Imean, just continue on cool.

Speaker 1 (01:38:43):
Well, thanks for coming on the show bro the
pleasure chopping it up with youdude.
There you guys have it folks.
Another banger for you guys.
If you like what you saw, makesure you hit that subscribe
button again.
Thank you guys for watching.
Love you keep pushing forward.

Speaker 2 (01:39:02):
Unhinged line.
Hector's legend engraved Livinglife raw, never been tamed.
From the hood to the pen.
Truth entails pen.
Hector Bravo, unhinged storynever ends you, thank you.

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