From Marine to ICE Agent: One Man's Journey

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Hector Bravo unhinged chaos is now in session welcome
back to our channels, warriors.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
We are still growing.
Today.
Another banger for you guys,man.
I went out and I found me an OGveterano man from the imperial
valley.
But on the real, this man righthere with the united states
marine, former ice agent dude'sbeen around the block.
Man has a lot of knowledge andwisdom to share with us.
We're going to dive into hisstory and we're going to find

(00:34):
out how, ultimately, he retiredfrom the ice department.
What up, dude?
Hey, what's up how was yourdrive up here?

Speaker 4 (00:40):
man from pure valley yeah, it was about two hours, no
traffic it was good.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
So, uh, where were you born and raised?
Dude?

Speaker 4 (00:48):
I was born in mexico, in sonora, and uh came over
here when I was about two yearsold his name's caesar, by the
way, if I failed to mention thatyeah, uh, sonora, where's that
at?

Speaker 3 (01:02):
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So that's also another way tosupport the channel.
Thank you, guys.
Appreciate all of you.
Keep pushing forward.
Make sure you hit that link inthe description below Probably
what Maybe six hours east ofMexicali east, east, east, okay,

(01:29):
okay, damn, I didn't even know,that is it across Nogales,
somewhere over there by PuertoPenasco.
Okay, somewhere in that areaand you moved over at two years
old.
And then, where do you?
Where you race?

Speaker 4 (01:42):
from two, I believe.
Well, this is from what Iremember from the family.
I think we went to brawley,california, for like a year and
then from there we went tofresno, because I went to
kindergarten fresno you did,yeah.
So I went to about friant.
It was called friant, it was atown away like 20 miles away
from fresno was your familyworking in the fields up there?

(02:02):
Yeah, he, he was always workingin agriculture.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
Your dad was.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
Yeah, so I think it was the almonds.
Back in that place it was thealmond trees.
So I went to kindergarten thereand then I remember well,
because I didn't speak Englishand at that school there was no
Mexicans because it was notFresno, it was a little town by
the dams- what were there whitepeople?
Yeah Well, I don't remember, butI remember I learned English

(02:31):
like within four months, becauseI remember my parents used to
tell me I used to get home madbecause I didn't understand
anybody, but it was a good thingbecause I learned it within a
few months, instead of justbeing where the Mexicans are.
They're going to be speakingSpanish.
Yeah.
Especially at the low income.
So it was kind of good that youknow that that happened.
And then from there, I guess Ithink, we moved to Fresno and

(02:53):
then from there, I think, wewent to the projects.
We moved to the projects duringsome time and so we lived in
the projects for a while inFresno and I remember back then
then that's when I got exposedlike the first time that I
remember violence, because Iremember I used to see the back
then it was mostly the blacks.
Well, your what year time framewas this you know what I

(03:13):
remember in Fresno, I think Imust have been maybe six or
seven but what was the year, the?
the years give or take in the70s, 70s, yeah, okay, so because
I was born in 67, so 72.
Kindergarten 73 maybe, yeah,and then so we lived in the
projects.

(03:34):
A lot of violence, a lot ofgetting chased by the black kids
.
I remember running home gettingchased because I hardly know
not that many mexicans at thattime, goddamn In the projects,
yeah, and I remember you knowlittle things like that, right.
And then from there I don'tknow, I forgot, because I

(03:55):
remember I went to elementaryschool in Brawley.
So we came to Brawley maybeeight, nine years old.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
And did you feel a little bit better or more
comfortable that you were aroundmore Mexicans?

Speaker 4 (04:07):
I don't think.
I don't remember it feeling anyway, it was all.
I don't remember.
If there was, it was justanother place.
Okay, we went to another place,and so I went to Oakley and
then from there I went to PhilSwing and it was during a time

(04:27):
when they were doing some kindof.
They moved.
All the first, second, thirdgraders had to go to one school.
Fourth, fifth and sixth went tothe other school.
Something was going on duringthat time with the politics and
all that, and so I went to thoseschools and then from there we
left maybe fifth grade, I think.
And so I went to those schoolsand then from there we left
maybe fifth grade, I think.
And then we went to this placecalled Olancha, over by

(04:51):
Victorville, but you head up.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Damn dude, you guys were on the move.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yeah, so we went to Olancha.
It's over by Lone Pine, I think, lone Pine Independence, by the
Mammoth Mountains.
So I lived in this little placethat had like 100 population
and then that place had theschool.
It was just two rooms.
One was the first, second thirdgrade and the other one was the

(05:16):
fourth, fifth and sixth gradeand then the.
So the first row was firstgrade, second row was second
grade, third grade, and then thetwo.
So the first row was firstgrade, second row was second
grade, third grade, and then thetwo teachers were married and
then from there we used to go onFridays hiking up the other
mountain, because the mountainwas right there by the school.
So I remember that.

(05:37):
And then I got to go to thejunior high, but it was in the
next town over.
Was that a little bigger?
I think Lone Pine was the nameof that.
Yeah, it was a little bigger,probably the size of Brawley, I
think, if I remember right.
And then so they had the highschool there so we'd get bused.
It was about a 25-minute rideor 25 miles.

(05:58):
So every morning we would drivethere to the next town over.
And so I went there for I thinkwe were there for a year.
But then my mom had a stroke.
So she had the stroke and thenwe had to leave because she
couldn't be in the altitude.
So then we came back to Brawley.
So I went to Brawley, I wasthere junior high, seventh grade

(06:21):
.
At the end of 7th grade we cameto Broadley and and then from
there I was in 7th grade andthen they told me okay, you know
what?
How old are you?
Okay, you're a little too oldto be in 7th grade.
So they gave me a little, somekind of quiz or something and

(06:42):
they put me in 8th grade.
Damn so, in Barberworth andBroadley they put me in eighth
grade.
Damn so, in Barberworth andBrawley they put me.
I only did two months of eighthgrade.
So I don't know how that worked, but I did two months of eighth
grade and then I graduatedeighth grade and then I went to
Brawley High School.
Okay.
So I don't know how, but thedifference in school and over

(07:04):
there I was going to flunk up inthe, they were going to hold me
back in Lone Pine, and thenover here they moved me up.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
It's brawly for you, man yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:14):
So they moved me up.
I don't know if they had DEIback then or.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
I don't know.
So who told me hookup?

Speaker 4 (07:20):
Yeah, so I got.
So I only did two months ofeighth grade, went to high
school and then from there I wasthere ninth, tenth grade, half
of tenth grade, and then I wentto Calexico, so it was just
where my parents were going.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
So you're the definition of the American dream
dude you were born in Mexico,came over here.
Of the American dream dude youwere born in Mexico, came over
here.
At what point did you get theidea to serve your country, and
was the United States MarineCorps your first option?

Speaker 4 (07:54):
So it was nothing about serving my country at that
time.
What was it about?
It was just, I was just alittle.
And then the thing is, becauseI was, you know, I was moving
around, I was a real shy kid,okay.
Thing is, because I was, uh,you know, I was moving around, I
was a real shy kid, okay, likeextremely shy.
So I would, um, and I don'tknow, it's because I was moving
around so much didn't reallycould be make a connection with
people.
So by the time I, uh, I rememberin high school I don't think I

(08:17):
had any friends I would, I wouldgo when I go home and then
everybody in the neighborhoodbecause it was a poor
neighborhood, and then it was alot of mexicali people that were
living in the place where Ilived.
And then, uh, so right there,you know, I was socialized there
.
But once I got, like like tothe high school, like like
nobody know, and then it was thesame thing in calexico, but

(08:38):
from calexico we'll go tomexicali on the weekends, where
my cousins lived.
So I met, I met a bunch ofpeople there.
Those were actually the lastgroup of people that I knew that
were my friends, because Istill see them once in a while,
and they were the people therethat live in Mexicali and then
pretty much everybody else thatI remember from Brawley, like

(09:03):
they kind of well, they allended up in trouble.
But the military, no, I had.
The only thing is, for somereason I've always had it.
I remember from when I was akid I wanted to be a Highway
Patrol.
I don't know, because back thenthey had a show called Chips.
Right Eric Estrada.
So I don't know if it wasbecause of that, because I
remember I wrote an essay inelementary school in Fresno you

(09:25):
know, what do you want to dowhen you grow up?
And I wrote Highway Patrol, andso that was in my head since I
was little, I don't know, maybebecause of that show.
And then so by the time, okay,I went through, you know, all
the way to high school, senioror 11th grade, I was like you
know what I want to?
The Border Patrol came to do alittle presentation and I was

(09:46):
like you know what I want to do,that I seen him in the uniform
and stuff, yeah.
And then so I was like you knowwhat I want to?
Go Border Patrol.
And that was just in my head andthen so then, okay, when the
time came, so then I got out ofthere.
So then I got out of there, sothen I went to the and to the,

(10:08):
because I was not even close tobeing the military type, so I
don't know what.
And then I was very quiet, so Idon't know what actually got me
to to make these moves or tothink like that.
And then I graduated, I went tothe recruiter's office and then
I went the Marine Corps.

(10:29):
They were closed or they wereout to lunch or something.
No, I was going to go Army.
I didn't know anything aboutthe Marine Corps.
I was going to go Army becauseI said, oh, I'll go Army, yeah.
And then so I went to the Army.
They were out to lunch.
So I went into the Marine Corpsrecruiter.
And then so I went to the Army.
They were out to lunch.
So I went into the Marine Corpsrecruiter.
I said, hey, do you know whattime they come back?
They go, come on in, you know,maybe we could help you out.

(10:49):
But at that time I thought, no,I can't get into the Marine
Corps.
I thought the Marine Corps wastoo hard or something special.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
It is something special, bro, but I hear what
you're saying.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:02):
And then so I go Army , army, seems like you know.
And then so it's just okay,they called me in.
They go, we'll take this testright here.
So I took it.
And they go well, what do youthink you would want to be?
I go military police.
They go, well, you know what,your score's not high enough.
But we got security forces.
And then I go, okay, you know,and you're going to be guarding

(11:28):
the base, whatever, whatever.
And then I go, okay, yeah, I'lldo that.
And so you know.
So I did that.
I signed up, but I didn't know.
Security forces was just for ayear.
You were a grunt, you were inthe 0311 so you signed in as the
0311 yeah but I guess yourfirst duty station was going to

(11:51):
be, uh, security forces, whichwas a security for a base and
then after that it's in thecontract the last three years
you're going to be a grunt well,yeah, and then you go to camp
elton, you go back to the fleet,back to the regular fleet, and
at that time I didn't knowthough, right.
So I thought, okay, I went toboot camp.
Where did you go to boot campat?
In San Diego.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
How was that experience, dude, because I know
you said you were shy and morequiet.
How was that experience?

Speaker 4 (12:18):
Well, I started from the most bottom as you can, I
think I barely.
I don't know if the recruiterscheated.
They the most bottom as you can, I think I barely.
I don't know if the recruiterscheated.
They had to do at least threepull-ups and then maybe I did
two and a half Right.
And then because even thedoctor that I was the family
doctor, before I left he did acheckup on me and then he was
shocked that I was going to themilitary.
He goes are you sure you'regoing to make it?
Because I think during thattime I wasn't even eating, and

(12:46):
then I must have been goingthrough something.
I don't remember, but Iremember I wasn't eating, I
would just pick up my food, andthen I guess I must have just
been nervous because I was anadult now right, I had to figure
something out and then.
So when I got to boot camp andthen I didn't go, you know, when
you go you could go with yourrecruiter and they try to prep
you a little bit.
I didn't show up to all becausemy parents moved to mexicali in
my last two months before Igraduated.
So where were you staying at?

(13:06):
In Mexicali?
But I would go back and forth,so I would take a bus in
Mexicali, where we were at crossthe border in my last two
months and then.
So when I went.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
Would you take a bus from the valley to here?
No, from.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
Calexico.
I would walk all the way to theborder cross, take the bus to
the neighborhood where I was at,where my parents were at, and
then do that for the last twomonths, cross A lot of kids
still do that right now, Okay.
And then there's a lot ofpeople from Mexicali that go to
school, and so then I did that.
And then after that I was likehaving second thoughts about

(13:45):
joining the military.
I was kind of chickening out.
How old were you when youenlisted 18.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
Okay, so you were a youngster.

Speaker 4 (13:51):
So I was.
I was having second thoughtsand then I don't know how the
recruiter actually went overthere and he found me when In
Mexicali?
No way, dude.
So my parents, I guess theymust have left some kind of
address or something, maybe.
Yeah, because I didn't even goto graduation, my parents went
and picked up my diploma.

(14:13):
I didn't go to like the lastweek or something, I don't
remember.
It's all like just A blur, yeah, it's a blur.
So my parents went to pick upmy diploma and then the
recruiter.
I guess they must have left anaddress or something at that
school, because the recruiterwent and found he was a Puerto
Rican guy, remember?
I don't know if his last namewas Garcia or Gonzalez, and
that's the first time I ever meta Puerto Rican guy.

(14:34):
Yeah.
So he went and he found me,which was a good thing because I
don't think I was going to showup no more.
And then so then I went next.
You know, I went to maps.
They checked me out.
I had an ingrown toenailbecause I was supposed to leave
in september.
I had an ingrown toenailinfected.
They rejected me, so I went toget the toenail pulled out.

(14:55):
Took like two months to healand in december I went.
In december december 9th or10th, I went in in Greyhound.
They picked me up at Greyhoundin San Diego on Front Street,
took me to boot camp and thenfrom there because I didn't know
what to expect.
Like I didn't know anything,like what was.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
What about any war movies?
Full Metal, jackie, no I wasn'teven Because I wasn't.

Speaker 4 (15:19):
It wasn't about that.
I wanted to go to the military.
This is what I wanted to go tothe military is this is what I
need to do because this is whatI want to do.
So to get there, I need to gohere because I'm not going to go
to school.
I barely made it out of theregular school.
I wasn't going to go to college.
I wasn't that type.
I didn't like school and so Iknew okay, well, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
To this day.
Can I explain why I had thatsense of what I needed to do?
Oh, I get it, bro, I get it.
You had a goal and then you sawwhich steps you had to take to
reach that goal.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
Like to this day, I still feel like I've always been
guided by something spiritualright, that's good dude.
And then, like to this day, Ifeel because a lot of times I
have ignored like I still feellike I'm being guided by certain
things, Like, right here, whatI'm doing, I would never, ever.
I hate cameras.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
I was just about to tell you there's a reason why
you're here today, man, yeah, soI've always.

Speaker 4 (16:08):
And then I could look back and certain things where I
had this feeling again and Iwould ignore it.
And then, and then, so you cantell that you know what, there
is a spiritual side of us thatthat we ignore.
You know, especially now withsocial is getting worse, we'll
get you that and uh, so I wentokay.

(16:29):
And then when I, when I got offthe bus no, the van, I went in
a van.
Usually you see people theycome on a bus, they get picked
up at the airports and then theyget on the.
So I went on a van and theystarted getting yelled at.
I didn't know what to thinkbecause I wasn't, I didn't know.
So then they start yelling andthis and that, and then the
thing is, even though I was aquiet kid, but I was still grew
up around the little gangstersand the little you know, we

(16:50):
didn't like that, even though Iwas in no gang or nothing like
that.
But I still feel like, hey, whoare these people?

Speaker 3 (16:56):
you know, you probably had a sense of like
etiquette, and people should notbe yelling at somebody as maybe
disrespect or something yeah,it felt like.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
And then, because I still had that little, because I
grew up the whole time in the,in the, in the, in the hood, I
guess you would call it rightand um, so then okay, so then we
went in, I was receiving, andthen from there they take you,
get shaved and all just, andthen they yell at you, take
everything in your pockets.
It's almost like if you're goinginto jail, like what the

(17:26):
correct everything in yourpockets, this and that, and look
straight, don't you know?
So you know the whole typicalmilitary stuff.
So from there, okay, I, uh,they, we, we.
Three days later we wereintroduced to the drill
instructors and then from there,I guess, because I remember the
one day they go, okay, we gotan individual doesn't want to

(17:47):
participate something.
I think I gave him attitudebecause I still wasn't getting
the hint.
This is the way it is.
This is this boot camp.
They're not yelling at you, butI think I took it personal,
like who are these people?
right and then so for a day, Iremember they moved me to the
end by myself, to the end of thesquad bay of the barracks, and
then I was by myself and I guessfrom there I must have, you
know finally caught on to.

(18:07):
Okay, no, this is the way it is.
This is you need to go throughthis?

Speaker 3 (18:11):
were they giving you special treatment?
Meaning no, were they fixatedon you?
I?

Speaker 4 (18:15):
think they knew.
Well, yeah, because I I broughtattention to them.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
Like they say don't, don't so you brought attention
to yourself.
Yeah, and you and they, andthey let you know yeah and were
they rude about?

Speaker 4 (18:28):
it, oh yeah, and then after that, I, I finally
clicked in.
You know what?
No, this is the way it is, thisis, you know, you're here, this
is boot camp, this is theprogram.
You got to go through it andthen, so from there, I guess, so
I must have you know, okay, Igot into the routine of the way
things were and then, uh, so Iwent through the whole boot camp

(18:49):
experience, um, and then, um,getting yelled at because I
brought a lot of attention tohim, because back, then were
they putting hands on peopleyeah, so I got hit, like at
least from where I remember, Igot hit in the chest twice.
But the thing is is because Iwent in there, remember, I
wasn't in shape, I was real weakand then so I brought a lot of
tension to him Correct, becauseI was, because I'm surprised, I

(19:15):
like made it actually Real quick, before we started talking.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
I wanted you to expand on the different
generations that you know haveevolved.
Do you feel that that type ofbehavior is beneficial to
somebody?
Somebody's growth?

Speaker 4 (19:35):
like me, I have no problems with it, correct?
I went through.
I think I, the type of person Iwas, was, actually did me good,
correct?
So it was good for me.
But I was, I was, um, you knowthat that made me grow up, that
made me, that made me.
So I have no, like nocomplaints, correct?
And then I haven't even got tothe part where I went to my
first duty station.

(19:55):
I'll let it go, bro, let's hearit.
So so you went through that,okay, I went.
And then, uh, and they were, Iwould have to get up at night
too to study, because they thinkI wasn't gonna pass.
Uh, you know, because you haveto do your knowledge, you have
to remember all these things,all these, uh, you know tactics
and all this.

(20:16):
And then, um, so I, you know, soI was getting yelled at more
than normal and then I wasgetting up at night to do extra
studying because they're likethis guy ain't gonna make it, um
, and then, because in school, Idon't even know, I don't
remember learning anything inschool because I would move
around so much I do not remember.
I don't know how I made it outof school.

(20:36):
And uh, I think what helped meis I took um.
I would get these books liketests taking for dummies and I
think those little things inthere has helped me pass these
tests to keep getting throughwhere I was going.
And then I took typing the lasttwo years in high school and I
think you do a lot of writing,so I think that's what actually

(20:58):
helped me be able to write alittle bit and then that's what
helped me get through.
Because of the rest, I don'tthink I learned anything that I
remember because I didn't likebeing there.
Right.
And so so okay.
So I graduated boot camp andthen I went to infantry training

(21:21):
school.
It was called ITS back then.
Now it's called SOI School ofInfantry In Camp.
Pendleton.
Yeah, so I went to ITS InfantryTraining School and then so I
got through that.
And then I remember, back thenthey were looking for 20
volunteers to go to Cuba.
Back then it was Cuba and Iforgot what other duty station

(21:41):
well, the worst duty stationsyou could have.
And I forgot what other dutystations Well, the worst duty
stations you could have.
There was no combat or anythinggoing on at that time.
So the worst duty stations youcould have was Cuba.
And there was another one Iforgot because of the isolation.
And then so I remember I waslike kind of joking around with
people like, oh, you're going togo to Cuba, You're going to go

(22:02):
to Cuba, and that day, becausethey didn't have enough
volunteers, so they just pickedpeople, so they started reading
off the names, the 20 names, andthey read my name and I was
just like, and I was like Cuba,like, and then so I was the one
picked to go to Cuba.
And then back then you had to doalso a they had to do like a,

(22:24):
like a solubility, like a, likea background.
Oh okay, because at base youneeded a certain classification.
Yeah, so so I went to, so theydid that.
So that was the first time Iwas actually classified.
You know, with Clearance, itwasn't secret it was, it wasn't
below that.
So so then, you know, with the,it wasn't secret, it wasn't

(22:48):
below that.
So then so I got picked andthen graduation of infantry
training school.
My parents showed up tograduation about two, three
hours, got to see them for aboutan hour.
After it was over it startedlike at 8 am.
By noon I was on the busstraight to the airport.
No way, dude.
So so I went to um straight tothe airport.

(23:11):
First time flying I had my mytwo bag, my c bag, another
duffel bag and my big becauseback then I would carry this big
in the 80s big old radio, okay,and then I was really into my
radios, so I took that, thatthing with me.
So I had a radio, big old C bag, another bag Like a boom box
type of deal.
Yeah, it was a big old boom box, I took it with me.
So I go to the airport and thenwe fly I think it was Virginia

(23:36):
or somewhere and then from therethey were telling us.
You know what, when you get toCuba, make sure you put your
head down when you get off theplane, because they were messing
with us.
They go, you might get shot at.
So you know, when we landyou're going to go into the.
You know you're going to tuckyour head or whatever, and
they're already messing with youbefore you even got there.
So I got to Cuba.

(23:57):
That's the first time I everfelt humidity, because in the
valley it was dry.
So that's the first time I gotoff the plane and like whoa,
humidity and then.
So from there we went.
There was two sides of the baySwingward and Leeward.
I was on Leeward.
You had to take like a ferryacross the bay and then you get

(24:19):
to the Leeward side and thenfrom there that's when I thought
boot camp was.
I don't think boot camp wasanything compared to the
receiving I got at no way manyeah.
And then because at that timeyou had like the mentality I had
now that I think about it, likewhen you think about discipline
, right, the military, right, tome that was that was not
discipline, that was not.

(24:41):
It was like as soon as we gotthere, you know, the guy guys
started like everybody was there.
They started like messing withyou, yelling at you, doing this,
and that I guess kind of likealmost going like to a prison,
like hazing, yeah.
And then I remember that night,that night they flipped, you

(25:01):
know, they went into the roomsbecause all the new guys we
didn't go out nowhere.
There was 20 of us, so we werein our bunks and then, like at
midnight they would come.
I guess they came out drunk fromthe E-Club and they flipped our
bunks over and then, you know,leather on our head.
It was chaos for the firstthree months until those guys
started leaving, and then afterthat, after we started becoming

(25:26):
my group, we started becomingthe seniors, when the other
people started coming in, wedidn't do any of that, you
didn't do any of that.
So then things started changing.
Okay, so the environmentchanged because we didn't do
that to nobody Right.
We were treating them like youknow, even though the military
is expected, that kind of stuffis expected.
But I guess I don't know if itwas just the generation of the

(25:48):
guys over there, maybe late 70s,early 80s, compared to the mid
80s, late 80s.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Were they Vietnam veterans or no?
I don't know.
You mentioned that incidentfrom the movie A Few Good Men.
You said that incident happenedwhile you were on.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
Yeah.
I don't know if anybody diedbecause it happened on the
windward side and it happenedlike my last couple of months
that I was there.
We heard about some incidentbut from what I remember I think
it was just like a blanketparty that somebody got and I
guess they got pretty hurt,pretty bad.
Yeah.
And that's all I knew, and Ididn't know.
And then pretty bad, yeah, andthat's all I knew, and, uh, I

(26:27):
didn't know.
And then there was a.
I know there was a change ofcommand because we, you know,
you have to do like you have toget information.
It's like a ceremony rightchange commands.
So sorry, imagine the coloneltraveled together and they got
relieved of their duties forwhatever I think was because of
that issue and uh.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
So so you also mentioned to me before that at
that time they held leadershipaccountable.

Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yeah, that's because when I see all this late stuff
with Afghanistan and all thatCorrect, like what happened,
like right there for thisincident, the sergeant major and
the colonel, you know they'reresponsible, there's no excuses.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
Right.
And then the failed withdrawalof Afghanistan, where 13 service
members died.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
When I seen that, and then that's the one I still had
in my mind too was the otherone that happened before that.
Yeah, the embassy which one umoh, benghazi yeah, that one is.
Is this right?
It started building me hate.

(27:28):
Uh, distaste for the, eventhough I was working already for
the government.
I haven't got to that partwe'll get you that.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
So, yeah, no, we're building the, we're building the
scene.
Man, you're uh, you're afucking grunt in guantanamo.
Man, now you're the seniors.
Yeah, what would your jobduties consist of, right there?

Speaker 4 (27:43):
well, it was fence line duty and because right
there you're supposed to,because I guess so the cuban
missile crisis, okay, I guessthey're not allowed to bring
because they had the missilesthere from and then.
So from there they're notallowed to have any, any tanks,
I believe, any uh, migs, any, uh, just small arms.
So right there they had alltheir bases.

(28:04):
We keep an eye on their base.
They were behind a hill so youcan really see their base, but
you could see the in in going,out going.
So we were locked down.
We have a log book and youlocked down on your post.
You had a certain sector andyou were like, okay, in, this
went out, this came in, thiswent out did you have binoculars
?
yeah, they were called big eyes.
It was a big old thing like ona stand, these big old things

(28:26):
they usually have on ships righton the navy.
They're called big eyes, so youcould see right there were they
staring back at you?
yeah, sometimes we wave and theywait back.
And it was the same thing,because sometimes we would take
our flat jacket and our gear,our helmet off and stuff and
relax and they would do the samething.
And then, when they see thelike somebody come check the
post, like the, the lieutenantor whoever, and then everybody

(28:49):
throw their stuff back on yeahit was kind of funny you see
them.
Then they did the same thing.
It was like the same thing anduh, so we were kind of like just
go like that way back.
And then you had one, two,three, four, five, I four, five,
I think, about eight posts.
One was right on the ocean, youwould keep track of the ship
movement.
And then the other one okay,there was a military base there.
Another one, three, it wasabout six bay.

(29:11):
There was one that was 18 milesout, 18 miles out.
Yeah, that one was right acrossfrom the.
It was called Camarena City.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
What was it?
A guard tower?
Yeah, they're all towers.

Speaker 4 (29:22):
And was it?

Speaker 3 (29:22):
one person or two people?

Speaker 4 (29:23):
in that tower, no just one.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
And what have you got picked to go to the 18-mile-out
one?

Speaker 4 (29:29):
Is it boring?
Not that one, because you getto see the people there, you see
the movement, people like thekids going to school, the people
going to work.
So it was kind of like.
You know, that one wasinteresting, the one before that
.
Which one was the worst towerLike what are you not staring at

(29:49):
anything, I think number 13, itwas right by you keep track.
There was like a little riverthat ran through the base and
into Cuba, and I think that, forremember right, that's all.
You were just watching thelittle river there and then the
other ones.
Well, you were watching becauseyou had to keep track of what
went in, what went out.
Yeah, in the logbook, cool, andthen the one at the sea that

(30:11):
one's like, and then so you do.
I think I don't remember right,but I think you would do a week
guard duty or a fence line duty, and then the next week you
would do infantry stuff,training.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
Whatever the infantry does, we'll go out there and
train or what did you preferdoing, the infantry training or
the guard duty?

Speaker 4 (30:31):
I think just it didn't matter.
The whole just being thereisolated, it sucked, yeah.
Okay, and just being there likehow was?
the chow the chow was justregular chow, as a matter of
fact.
I think I don't remember I musthave been consuming about 1,000
.
Everybody was like well, mostpeople.
There was very few people thatliked being there because it was

(30:52):
isolated, it was horrible and,from what I remember, most
people were like man, I can'twait to get out of here.
And then so I remember, andespecially me, because you know,
I went to boot camp, went toinfantry training school and
then straight to the bus andthen over there, 18 years old.
So I remember I was in, becauseI remember I was in hardly

(31:14):
eating, I was eating very littlethe whole time I was there.
And then so I lost a lot ofweight and so, but a lot of
weight, but towards the end.
Actually, you get used to it.
And at the end I was like,because you could extend for a
year and I was this close, I wasgoing to extend because I was
already used to it.
You get used to whateverenvironment you're in, right?

Speaker 3 (31:35):
How long was your tour there?
A year, One whole year thereman and I didn't go nowhere.
I was just there the whole time.
So was that part of the?
That one year was that whereyour recruiters were talking
about?
That was going to be your oneyear of security forces.

Speaker 4 (31:50):
But they didn't know where I was.
There because security forceswas what was it?
Where else Diego Garcia?
It wasn't embassy duty, Embassyduty is different, but it was
similar.
You do duty, embassy dutydifferent but it was similar.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
you, you, you do security for the base so then,
after that, you have three yearsremaining on your contract but
it's all overseas, I thinkokinawa, two security forces and
then you came back statesideafter that yeah, after that I
came back, got 30 days.

Speaker 4 (32:14):
uh, they called it basket leave, free leave.
So at that time my parents werestill in Mexicali.
So I went to Mexicali andthat's where I had.
The last friends that I hadwere from Mexicali.
So I went there, back to theneighborhood there and I
remember for three days I was inCuba for a year.

(32:36):
It felt like I was there for 10years, like I felt when I got
back to well, not the States,well, technically, the well
technically in the border uh, Ifelt like, um, like things had
changed right, like kind of like, when the prisoners get out of,
but they're there for years,but they get that same feeling
when they get into society, likeyou know, and I felt like I was

(32:58):
gone.
I was gone for longer than ayear, so when I got back, I
think I was in my house forthree days like I, I didn't want
to, I was like paranoid, right,I didn't want to go out.
And then finally the the kidsare from the neighborhood, they
started coming over and theneventually I came out, okay, and
then I so then I got back in.

(33:18):
You know, okay, I'm back.
So then from there, after 30days, I went to my first or my
duty station in Camp Pendleton.
But the people, or the unit, wasout.
It was 3-7.
And the unit was out and theywere doing, they were finishing
up their cold weather trainingup north Fort Ord or Hunter
League, their cold weathertraining.

(33:40):
So they said you know what?
It makes no sense to take youall the way over there.
You just you're gonna hang outhere just kind of not doing
nothing.
Go help the the maintenance, orI forgot what it?
was.
So I was hanging out there forI don't know if it was two
months a month and um, and thenthey came back and then, but
this was a whole different.

(34:01):
It wasn't like my receiving atGuantanamo.
This was like, just normal.
It was normal, people werefriendly.
You know, by this time it was aPFC.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
Do you think they were friendly to you because
they knew you came fromGuantanamo Bay?

Speaker 4 (34:14):
I don't think so, because I didn't see any of
those.
I didn't see that, or maybejust everything changed.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
Did you get any special ribbon for going to
guantanamo?
Do they how the marine?

Speaker 4 (34:24):
corps works.
I don't know if I got the seaservice, because I got two.
I got a sea service and then Igot a little, uh, because I went
back overseas.
I actually went overseas, so Ithink I did get a ribbon.
I think they considered it asea service or overseas or
something like that.
So I think we did get something.

(34:45):
And so the guys came back andeverything was going smooth.
And then I started getting more.
Oh, it was a whole differentenvironment, right.
And then from there we used todo jungle warfare training with
3-7.
And then they got rid of orthey moved.

(35:06):
Something happened.
They were shuffling thingsaround.
They got rid of 3-7.
It was no longer under the 1stMarine Division and it went to
29 Palms, so half of it.
And then they were forming anew company with 1-9.
So half of it.
And then they were forming anew company with 1-9.

(35:29):
So 1-9, they were forming a newcompany.
They needed the people,volunteers to go form that new
company because they had anAlpha Bravo, charlie, they
needed Delta, and those guyswere raiders, they were trained
in urban terrain warfare, sothey would do like building,
clearing all that stuff.
So I don't remember if Ivolunteered or not, next, thing,
you know.
I just ended up.

Speaker 3 (35:47):
You went over there.

Speaker 4 (35:48):
Yeah, I went over there, which is way better than
ending up in 29 Palms.
So I guess half of the guysended up in 29 Palms.
They formed a whatever new or Idon't know.
3-7 went to 29 Palms the whole3-7.
So we went and formed a Deltacompany with 1-9.
And then from there, how wasthat?
training that was a wholedifferent Over here was just

(36:11):
jungle training.
Because I went, oh, we went, toOkinawa for six months With
3-7,.
I went to Okinawa and then wedid.
They have like a I didn't knowat the time, it's some special
jungle training.
Yeah, it's like a big trainingthing they have there.
So I went to Okinawa six months,but two months out of the six
months we did we went on atwo-month little, some kind of

(36:36):
little, like a little float,like a little.
We went to countries you don'tusually go to singapore, hong
kong, no, singapore, hong kong,indonesia, these are not your
typical right uh, places you goto.
And then, because I remember Idon't know if there was some
kind of arm sale or somethinggoing on with the us, because

(37:00):
they were once we get therewe'll do training in each
country we went to.
But then and then when we'redoing training, some days they
would kick us off the ship justto go on liberty and they would
have all the weapons displayedthe m60, the, the 50 cals the
mortars, all that right and then.
So at that time I was like, whenit was going on now that I know

(37:21):
, years later, I think they wereselling arms right to these
countries.
Yeah.
They were displaying them, soyou know.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
They probably had you guys as a show of force,
Marines.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
Well, I don't know, but I remember every country we
went to.
We were trained with them.
Yeah, we would do like eventswith them and with you know
Indonesian Marines and all thesecountries went to not Hong Kong
.
Hong Kong was just a libertyand Singapore was just liberty.
And so we did it for two months, went on this little which was

(37:55):
not part of the normal.
Probably too many Marinesprobably didn't have that
experience because it was justsome little thing that happened.
So I did that and then we wentto.
We came back, went to 1-9.
They were going to go on afloat so I got to do so.
I did three different things infour years they usually only do

(38:18):
one.
You either go, you're with 1-9,you do a float.
Maybe, you do another floatwithin your four years.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
That's good though, man.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
Those are great experiences, you're either with
three, seven you're going to goto Okinawa and maybe go again in
those four years.
So I got to do Cuba securityforces.
I did three, seven, jungle andOkinawa training and then in
Okinawa I did a little two month, little extra thing and then in
Okinawa.
I did a little two-month littleextra thing, yeah, and then one

(38:44):
nine, they go on a float for sixmonths on a ship.
So then I did that.
Oh, we only had eight months tolearn all the new stuff which
is urban terrain warfare.
So then we had to learn as acompany and then from there we

(39:05):
went to do your final test overin 29 pounds, I think.

Speaker 3 (39:06):
What did the final test consist of?
Like a.

Speaker 4 (39:08):
It's just so, yeah, a big old training thing that
they do over there to make surethat you're you're prepared
right to go over, because therewas still conflicts going on in
iraq even back then yeah so hehad to be prepared for, for,
because anything could kick off,which was there was a bunch of
times where we were already onour way to Iraq.
I don't know what was going onin Iraq.
All I knew was I was there andwhatever had to happen had

(39:29):
happened and um, and by thattime I already had confidence.
I was already in more than twoyears.
So I was already like ready,yeah, first two years I probably
would have not known, I wouldhave been like, oh, you know,
I'm gonna die, I don't.
But the last, my last year, mylast, probably after two and a
half years, where I actuallyfelt confident, I don't care,
right, if something happens,because there was always that

(39:51):
that thing, because there wasalways incidents going on
overseas.
And then back then we would do alot of training, um, to secure
embassies, because there was alot of coups, like in the
Philippines, yeah.
And then so we would do a lotof training, uh, to go and, uh,
get the people out.
A lot of coups, like in thePhilippines, yeah.
And then so we would do a lotof training to go and get the
people out, a lot of fast ropingout of helicopters, all that
training, ride control.
So we'd do a lot of thattraining, because that's the

(40:13):
main thing that was going onback then was the coups in these
different countries thatprobably the US was causing.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
So, as you're about to exit the Marine Corps did you
apply for?

Speaker 4 (40:25):
talk to me how you got, how you applied for ins and
how you got into ins so okay,so that, uh, so my last, my last
year in the, in the, in themarine corps, I had already kind
of forgot about what I wasgoing to do next.
Okay, so I was already, likeyou know, I was having a even

(40:48):
though you didn't have that muchfree time with being in the
infantry.
You were always either trainingin the field or overseas or
whatever.
Right, but the time becausethere was a time where we would
just be there at the base, maybea few months, and I got to come
home.
So maybe a few months and I gotto come home.
So I was enjoying all thatright now I was getting, you
know, got to come home on theweekends.
I did that for a little bit andum, and then, uh, oh, we went

(41:12):
to train with the before we wentoverseas.
They called us back early Idon't know if it was just a
training thing to see if peoplewere going to show up because
they said we're going to leaveearly because something was
happening overseas yeah soeverybody had come and we had a
meetup in Coronado and then theysaid, you know what, never mind
, Since we're all loaded up,we're all ready to go
we're just going to stay herethe last month before we have to

(41:34):
leave and we're there andported there in San Diego,
somewhere not in Coronado, andwhile we were there for the
month in Coronado, we'll gotrain with the SEALs and there,
when you train on their base,you can't walk nowhere, you have
to run everywhere.
So once you leave, chow, you goto wherever you're going, you
run, you double time.
So that's the way it was,because that's the way the SEALs

(41:55):
do it.
And then so we went throughtheir confidence course or they
call it obstacle course.
Yeah, it wasn't no obstaclecourse, that was a confidence
course yeah and then so we gotto go through that.
They went through it like if itwas just a regular obstacle
course, you know.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
Uh well, we had people that were is that the one
you can see if you're driving?

Speaker 4 (42:13):
down, yeah the base and um.
So we got to do some training.
I don't remember that muchabout it, but I remember we're
there and then next to nowhere,shipping off, and then for my
first time on the ship.
Like you, gotta, I don't knowif you've ever been on a ship,
but it takes some use becauseeverything's crammed up.
There's not really nowhere yeah,so it takes a week or two to

(42:36):
get used to.
You know you don't have thatmuch uh, movement or area to
maneuver.
And then the bunks are four,damn so there's one on the floor
, one, second, third, fourth,and then when you get up there's
no room to change, so you'remainly changing your stuff on in
your so all the ships that was.
And then you're sometimesyou're out there for I don't

(42:58):
know how long where you're justseeing the ocean and it kind of
like because they have to keepyou busy, because if not, you're
kind of like because you'relooking out there you don't see
no land for like.
Yeah, I don't know if it wasweeks or, for sure, days, until
you get to your next port andthen.
So that was a whole.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
During this time did you have good leadership?
Yeah, so your, your leadershipwas competent.

Speaker 4 (43:21):
There was a few that, uh, they try to be there.
It's because they were kind ofwhen you try to force it and be
phony right you could see it,and then it doesn't make a good.
Um, you know, you got to find away to lead and then, and if
you put in a position, but you,you still got to like you can't

(43:42):
fake it, because then they'reoveraggressive.
Right.
And you can see that.
But that was very.
I maybe remember one guy thatwas like that, but that's one
thing I did admire, that kind of.
I think I carried that.
I guess I'm going to get intoit.
But when I started working forthe government it was total
opposite.

Speaker 3 (44:01):
Well, that's what I want to start moving into
talking about how you had greatleadership.
You had an understanding of howthings are supposed to function
, yeah Right, and then, when wasit that you joined INS?

Speaker 4 (44:15):
So then when I left, I was like so, then I started
getting back.
Okay, the border patrol thingyeah so after I got out, and
then, uh, I almost ended up inlepd, because the last week
before you get out of the marinecorps they send you to um to um
, the place where they finish updoing your paperwork, get ready

(44:38):
.
So you get out.
And then so I was there for aweek.
A boy, uh, how patrol came.
No, no, lapd came.
They started testing people.
They were in there.
I didn't know nothing about it.
Yeah, I took the test, I passedit.
They were doing mass hiring,wow, for lapd.
This was in 89, no, early 90s,so they were doing mass hiring

(45:00):
for lapd.
And then so I took the test, Ipassed it, I went through the
process and then next year, youknow, because it was expedited,
so I passed everything and dideverything.
And they know those militaryguys, they ain't got much
background to do and all thatstuff.
So they were mainly, I think alot of military people went into
LAPD during that time.
So next year, you know the onlything I had.

(45:20):
Next thing, you know the onlything I had to do.
I passed everything.
The only thing I had to do wasthe medical Show up, do the
medical physical, pass it, andthen I was going to go to LA to
the six-month academy.
But I was like I don't want togo to, I don't want to live in
LA and I don't want to gosix-month academy right out of
the Marine Corps.

(45:46):
And then so I was this close, Iwas going to end up in LAPD.
And then, um, so I said nah, sothen I didn't follow through
with I had a envelope, I wasready to go, I just had to go
past that.
And then I was going to go tothe academy, so I didn't go.
And uh, so I went back to thevalley and um, so from there I
started kind of not.
I went on to the Valley, sofrom there I went on
unemployment for like threeweeks.

(46:07):
I got bored and then from thereI was like you know what I said
I'm going to work security.
I'm going to start workingsecurity.
Oh, because I took the BorderPatrol test and I didn't pass it
.
You didn't pass it.
No, and I took a Harbor Patroltest, I didn't pass it.
And then took a highway patroltest, I didn't pass it.
And then I was like, oh shit,so then I got my guard card and
then started working security.
Just you know guarding farms oryeah, whatever you know.

(46:32):
Minimum wage 411 an hour, goddamn.
So I did that, guardingquinceaneras yeah and then I was
pretty like because I wouldn'tmess around, like I would take
things serious, like people thatwould try to come in, even
females, I would not let them inif they didn't have a.
And then I was just like that.
I was very like, uh, like Ididn't, I didn't play around
like yeah you know, trying to dofavoritism stuff like that.

(46:54):
So I did that, I did securityand then from there a friend of
my um or a friend of mybrother's.
He was a non-grad guy, hedidn't have nothing to do.
He wanted to go to CaliforniaConservation Corps.
So you know what, go, and thenI'll go with you.
So I went there.

(47:14):
I don't know if you know theCalifornia Conservation Corps.
It's mostly high schooldropouts and stuff like that.
So I went with them.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
I think my uncle went to that yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
So I went with them because I was like I was, it was
boring the security stuff thatI was doing.
Yeah.
So then I you know what I'll gowith you, and at that time,
because I was still, I was aclient, was it called Job Corps?
Yeah, like Job Corps.
And then from there, you know,you do the push-ups and all that
.
But I remember I would keep upwith the because I still had the

(47:43):
military in me, right, so Iwould keep up with the
instructors and all that stuffand whatever.
Like me, it was odd for me tobe there because I wasn't.
You know, it was like highschool dropouts, people that
were trying to get it together,and then so I did it to back him
up.
And then so we got through thelittle two week training.
We went to our Santa Barbara orsomewhere up there, uh, went to

(48:06):
our our where they send you todo your.
It was the.
The training was forest fires.
You do forest fires and andthen repairing, like the, the
national parks, like, likebuilding like the little.
Yeah.
Uh, so that's what you did there.
They, they show you the toolsand all that.
So we went to our firstChatsworth, up in the mountains

(48:27):
somewhere.
And then, but the thing is like, nah, like he didn't like it
and I was like, well, I don'tknow, what am I going to do, I'm
not going to stay here.
So then we resigned.
We resigned and they told usyou got to come back on a Friday
.
They told us you got to comeback Monday so we could give you

(48:48):
a check, so you could go backhome.
So for two days we went toChatsworth, down the mountain,
down the hill.
We were in Chatsworth, sleepingin the street.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
Sleeping in the street.

Speaker 4 (48:58):
Yeah, on the bus benches, because once we
resigned resigned, they didn'twant us there, right?
So we went and worked all theway down.
We went, we slept in the parkin the daytime and then monday
we walked back up and it waskind of funny because my that
guy, he's not, he wasn't in themilitary or nothing yeah so he
was having a hard time, uh, youknow, climbing up the hill and

(49:19):
so it was an experience.
So then I I got back, I wentback to security, back to the
guy you know what, I'm back.
I told him I was going to go tothe military.
So then he, okay, and then,because I told him, you know
what, I went to the military, sohe gave me my job back and then
so I started working security,getting regular security.
I must have did it for likeeight months.

(49:42):
And so I started workingsecurity, again regular security
.
I must have did it for likeeight months.
And then from there I workedlike two months with AT&T.
They were doing some kind ofspecial project out in the
desert cables in the ground outin the desert.
And then I did that for twomonths because they were paying
$7.11 an hour.
I was paying $4.11 for security.

(50:02):
Yeah.
And then that was like long,paying $4.11 for security, yeah.
And then that was like longhours, like 16 hours a day, and
then from there I seen anadvertisement for security at
the detention and I was like Inever knew that place was there,
I never heard of it.
Yeah.
Some detention, immigrationdetention center said, and it
said $7.11 an hour, so from$4.11 an 7-11 hour, and then so
I applied they were doing a masshiring because the security was

(50:24):
taking over what theimmigration officers, the
detention officers, were doing.
So they needed a bunch ofsecurity to take control or to
take over all the barracks.
So we met up, they did all thepaperwork, the training at a
hotel for like three days andthen we go, we meet up at the

(50:45):
detention center.
That's my first time I'mexposed to, like you know, like
a, like a detention, like a jaildetainees?

Speaker 3 (50:54):
yeah, there were detainees.
Were they from differentcountries?

Speaker 4 (50:56):
at that time you had a lot of um.
There were more all out of theprisons.
There was only maybe one dormthat was all just illegals and
the world.
There was all prison.
All the prison was coming thereafter they did their time.
So there was a lot of cubansthere.
There was a lot of cubans, awhole dorm of cubans, and then
there was a lot of jamaicansthere.

(51:17):
There was a lot of um,different races, and then um,
and then that's the first time,uh, I started seeing because I
wasn't really exposed, like tothe sorranos and and stuff like
that uh, the regular gangs frombrawley.
There was a lot of gangs inbrawley.
Well, I was.
Actually, it was two drive-bybefore drive-bys got popular

(51:38):
yeah going back a little bit toto the high school days, that
what they did a drive by where Iwas living at with the pistol,
and then they did a drive by atthe park where I was at and then
, like a year later, you startedhearing about drive by.
Like they got popular yeah butbefore we hit the news there was
already drive-bys in brawleyand the little town.
There was like seven or eightgangs.

(51:58):
You had g street, I don't knowhe said probably bbl pys, and
then you had the mexicali guys,and then chicali and then, and
then because me, I wasn't partof none of that, so, um, so it's
kind of because if you don'twant to be part of that, they're
not going to mess with you like, try to force you or nothing
like that, and um, so that wasjust interesting, the, you know

(52:21):
the.
I was in the background wheninteresting you know, I was in
the background when bullets were, you know, when they were doing
these drive-bys.
But so when I got there, yeah,and then that's where I started
seeing like these guys out ofprison, like the sort of annuals
, and I really didn't knowanything that much about it.
What they were To me I wasalready used to being.
You know, they didn't look nodifferent from the gangs from

(52:42):
Brawley Right the tattoos andthe mannerisms, and so to me it
was like just a normal.
I felt like I was just aroundthose guys again.
Yeah.
Back in the neighborhood therein Brawley.
And then there was also a lotof people that I seen in there
that I knew there wereimmigration proceedings, People

(53:04):
that I knew that I met therewhile I was in Raleigh the two
or three years I was there.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
That were working or going through the process.

Speaker 4 (53:14):
No, mostly going through.
I didn't really know the peoplethat were Like getting deported
.
Yeah, Okay, they were inproceedings, so they had green
cards, but and a lot of themdidn't even know like that they
could actually get deportedbecause they were there from,
they thought they were citizens.
Damn, A lot of them didn't evenrealize that.
What is this?
Like you know, they got introuble.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
And then they got a removal charge got them put in
proceedings During thistimeframe?
What was the capacity like inthere Like During this time
frame?
What was the capacity like inthere?
Like oh there are a lot ofpeople, a little bit of people.

Speaker 4 (53:44):
Back then.
I think they only had fourdorms and I think it was a total
of 400, maybe 400?

Speaker 3 (53:50):
Yeah, Throughout your career would you see those
numbers change and fluctuate?

Speaker 4 (53:53):
Yeah, it doubled up.
They built four whole new dorms, so then they had anywhere
between 600 and up to 1,000.
But when it got up to 1,000, itwas overflows.
They were out to sleep on thefloor, damn.
And because it depends on whatwas going on, because there's
been other mass movements Notthis last one, this last four

(54:13):
years.
That was the longest one.
That was a four-year straight,but before that you would have
mass movements throughoutdifferent times.
So then we had to deal withthem, the overflows, and it was
just different races, differenttimes.
Like one time it was a bunch ofChinese that just all of a
sudden just came over at once, abunch of people from India we

(54:35):
have all the India people thereand they would all just travel
like in big and they would alljust travel like in big.
So, yeah, anywhere between 600and maybe 900 and something at
the most.
But at that time, at thebeginning, when I first started,
it was the detention officerswith INS and then Border Patrol

(54:59):
come do overtime at the dormsBecause they were short.
They were short to run the dorms, so Border Patrol would come
and back then it was just open.
You were just there.
Eventually they would buildlike a little area where you're
kind of caged off the detainees.
Were there any guns?
No, you had a baton.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
Pepper spray.

Speaker 4 (55:20):
I don't remember, I don't think.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
Just a good old baton yeah, just a baton keys.

Speaker 4 (55:24):
Yeah, big old key radio radio, okay, so they would
have that, and then the borderpatrol be there and then, I
think, eventually they build thelittle cage area where you're
actually behind the.
So eventually it would be oneofficer in the cage, one officer
inside.
With them there was two.
It was a open barracks andthere was two sides, so he would

(55:46):
just kind of hang out, walkaround was there ever assaults
amongst the residents there?
oh yeah, that was the firstthing I got exposed to I was
security, didn't get to to, Icouldn't do anything as security
.
And then the first fight I seenwas in the kitchen.
Like the first time I seen wasin the kitchen, like the first
time I seen a big old fightbreak out when they were feeding

(56:07):
, damn.
And then I just seen like planesflying and all this stuff and I
was there like, and then I wasin the kitchen.
I had kitchen duty in the backand I was like, oh, and then I
seen the detention.
All the officers came, whatever, and then.
But back then you had somerough officers, were pretty
rough back in the well, this wasthe early 90s, which I heard is
the same probably everywhereprison.

(56:28):
You had a whole different typeof uh, give me some examples of
being rough well, they messaround, like once they put their
hands on you it was going to bea hard.
Uh, you know there was no letme.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
You know, let me you know, let me be gentle with you.

Speaker 4 (56:41):
Yeah, at the end they ended up being like that.
But you know you have me.
You know, at the end Let me begentle with you.
Yeah, at the end it ended upbeing like that, but you know
you have to do all thesewarnings, all this, but at the
beginning it was like and.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
Well, real quick.
Do you think for a correctionalsetting that that type of
demeanor or command presenceneeds to be had?

Speaker 4 (57:03):
Yeah, because that showed off.
Yeah, because they know you'renot going to, because they knew
you weren't going to If they actup, it was going to be dealt
with.
So it was way better.
It was way safer than what itturned out to be at the end
babysitting and the only thing,yeah, the only thing.

(57:27):
And then there was a lot ofback.
Then I don't think I don'tremember, I think it was just a
memo.
If you put your hands onsomebody, it was just you wrote
your memo, awesome, and that wasit.
That I remember.
I don't.
Use of force came in later.
Right, the use of force formand then more like okay, you
could have done this, you could,you know, yeah.
And then after that, well, itwasn't it kind of like at first?

(57:48):
It was kind of fun, because youknow well, and then later on,
and so during that time frame,things make sense.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Inmates get out of control, you guys put them back
in control.
Minimal report writing to none.
How was the leadership at thattime?
Or do you even realize?
Did you even know who yourleadership was?

Speaker 4 (58:08):
because of your position okay, okay, speaking of
security, because I didsecurity three years yeah there.
So I don't remember much aboutdoing the security stuff.
And then once I went over tothe actual INS as a detention
officer, okay, and then I wasunder the leadership of actually

(58:28):
the government, right, you know, the supervisors.
Actually everything was good.
The only thing that thecomplaint I would have about
those days was the favoritism.
Yeah, there was cliques, andthen for me, because I wasn't, I
didn't like that.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
Who were they hooking up?
People from their hometown,just people, that, yeah people
that they knew from childhood.

Speaker 4 (58:49):
There was a lot of people that everybody knew each
other Right, so they were, youknow they were, or like.
Another thing was like, forsome reason, sports, like people
would have this bond because ofsports.
But I didn't watch sports so Icouldn't get into the, you know,
I wasn't part of the crowd.
You were a lone wolf bro Plusyeah, Plus I was like more of a.

(59:10):
I was always serious.
I always wanted to do thingslike.
I hated playing games, Correct,I hated like doing things just,
you know, for no reason, orpeople messing around like
horseplay.
I didn't like that.
But the detention that was theonly thing I think would be the

(59:33):
favoritism of the little clicks.

Speaker 3 (59:34):
But other than that, it seems like in the beginning
time of your career you wereenjoying it.
Yeah, and I'm sure the pay wasmassive compared to $4 an hour.

Speaker 4 (59:43):
The only thing yeah, yeah, okay.
Then it went up.
Actually, it went probably evenfor when I was making with the
security company yeah and thenprobably even and then.
But then you started moving up.
You know you're a great level,so then you were making.
Eventually you would make morethan what was security um but um
.
So I did the, the detentionstuff.

(01:00:08):
He did all kinds of stuff,because when I did bailiff court
I did um and then fights,fights, all the time, breaking
up fights, slamming people whywere they fighting just?
Disagreements.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Gang violence.

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
I think there was maybe a few incidents because of
gangs, but not, it was mostlyjust disagreements.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
Was there an isolation area?

Speaker 4 (01:00:39):
Yeah, we had the special management unit, which
is the cells.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
It was like 18 cells.

Speaker 4 (01:00:46):
It was just one little building and you had
about nine little cells on eachside and that's where the people
that were getting in trouble go.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
What were the cell doors?
Made out of?
A solid or bars.

Speaker 4 (01:00:57):
It was a solid door and it had an opening.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
For the food, yeah, that was a solid.

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
or bars, it was a solid door and I had an opening
for the food, yeah, and then alittle window.
And how long could the inmatesstay up until there?
For I think two weeks, damn,except for the, uh, I don't know
.
I, I can't remember the exactlythe because he had pcs you did
protective custody who would beconsidered a pc well, at one
time it was the, the like, thehe she's and the.
They had them there.
The trans people, uh yeah, buteventually, later on, once it
got political, they were, theywere out and about hey, bro,

(01:01:29):
once we got political, they gavethem the keys and they were
running the show.
So, okay, you know these guyscould be, you know whatever yeah
and then so you only had thenorteños, for sure those guys,
never, okay, but it very rarelyyou would have a norteño.
And then so you only had thenorteños for sure those guys,
never, okay, but very rarely youwould have a norteño.
And then so, right as soon aswe knew he was coming we knew he
was coming, right away, get himout you'd be surprised.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Right now, man, they're welcome down south and
they're intermingling yeah,amongst what I've been seeing.

Speaker 4 (01:01:52):
well, they're trying to force it, but you know, those
guys have their rules.
I don't know if it's going towork out, but so you had that.
You had because we did, but wehad a lot smaller population
because when they would getfights it was mostly race.
There was a lot of race.
They get in fights because oftheir Race riots or like

(01:02:13):
one-on-one, like just brawls.
Not like brawls, like maybe whatlike five, ten guys With not
like brawls, like maybe whatlike five ten guys With weapons
or no weapons?
No, because we would doconstant shakedowns.
When they went to eat we wouldshake it down.
When they come back, they getpatted down probably two
different times.
So it was rare.
I don't think that I've knownor at least me, I never found
like any shanks on anybody.

(01:02:33):
Would they make alcohol?
Yeah, they would make pruno,yeah, alcohol, yeah, they were
make pruno.
Yeah and uh, but drugs drugswas the other one.
That because I guess you didhave some officers that would
bring it in and then you wouldhave it.
They would throw it over thefence while they were in the
yard yeah when they were out inthe yard.
People pass by the back streetbecause I forgot what street
that is because it's right therein town, so you have the

(01:02:55):
neighborhood there, so theywould drive by, throw us over is
that the one by big five?
yeah, okay, or they would throwlike tennis balls, they would
have the neighborhood there, sothey would drive by, throw us
over.
Is that the one by Big Five?
Yeah, okay.
Or they would throw like tennisballs.
They would have all the stuffin there.
They would throw a tennis ballover and so it wasn't that big
of a problem.
But you would have here andthere like drugs Shanks.
We didn't really give them achance to At that time, what
kind of drugs was it?

(01:03:18):
I don't remember.
I think it was just marijuana,I think, I'm not sure.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
How about any assaults on the staff members?
Were that happening?

Speaker 4 (01:03:30):
Yeah, oh, it was no, not bad ones, just maybe they
got a hit or two off and thenthey would get, because back
then then, well, they would getroughed up by the uh, the old,
the old timers there yeah and umyeah, so it didn't happen too
much, unless they were a little51, 50 yeah, did you guys have

(01:03:52):
crazy people?
yeah, all of a sudden they wouldjust go off.
But you had to know.
You had to know what you hadright, and if you let your guard
down, they were going to startwailing on you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
How important is it that you have your guard up
working in a correctionalsetting?

Speaker 4 (01:04:06):
Yeah, that's the whole thing.
The whole thing is because,yeah, as soon as you left there
or you get complacent, that'swhen things happen.
And the time because you couldget complacent, because
sometimes you know nothing wouldhappen, and you're kind of like
, and then sure enough, and then, but you could tell by their,
when they would come to eat.
You can tell something wasgoing to by the.

(01:04:27):
You can feel the tension, thetension when they would come to
eat.
A fight's going to break out,get ready, and then you could
just.
And then bam, all of a sudden,just plates flying.
And then, because in all of asudden, just plates flying,
because in one of them actuallya big old fight broke out.
And then I got.
It was an Armenian guy.
I got him and I slammed him,because on video too bad, I

(01:04:48):
couldn't get a copy of the video.
But when I slammed him his legswent flying in the air and he
landed hard.
And then I went over him andput my knee on him.
And then I was on my radio whenyou learned that the Marine
Corps no, it was mainly becauseI was always horseplay like that
.
Okay, so those moves, they werenatural to me because of Broly
messing around.

(01:05:08):
Yeah.
We're always messing around.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Rough housing.

Speaker 4 (01:05:12):
Yeah, so hip throw, that was my go-to.
None of this training that theytry to teach you.
You're not going to remembernone of that Right At the
academy.
The little training, that hasto be something natural that you
used to because you've beendoing it for years.
Yeah.
And so those were always thego-to to me was the judo.
For some reason, that was agood route.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
Do you believe that the generation of today, which I
believe is called Gen Z, do youbelieve that the generation of
today, which I believe is calledGen Z?
Do you believe they are softerin life because they lack that
physical altercation with oneanother?

Speaker 4 (01:05:46):
You know what?
I don't know Because I don'thave your typical Gen, because I
don't know my kid he's 22.
Probably yeah.
But my kid.
I was wrestling with him sincehe was little.
I would grab him and then putmore tension on him, bro.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
I have no doubt that you were a good dad, bro.

Speaker 4 (01:06:01):
So it kind of reminds me like of the Spartans, where
the guy was wrestling with hiskid yeah, like I would do that
to my kid.
Yeah, go get him.
And he was getting older, Iwould put more pressure.
Plus, I knew the basicjiu-jitsu stuff, so I would do
that.
Yeah.
And you know, get him in myguard, mount him, put pressure
on him, and then a lot ofhorseplay, and he was a strong

(01:06:21):
kid.
He was an aggressive kid, but Iwould teach him you know what?
Okay, eventually you're notgoing to have this energy, so
you can't just be going all outand then eventually oh, I think
once he got to 16 years old,that's the last time I did that.
Yeah.
Because he wanted to beat meand I could see he was going to
get hurt.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
Who was going to get hurt?

Speaker 4 (01:06:40):
Him Because at that time I actually had to do real,
you know, to stop him Like realforce, like real force.
And that's the last time I go,you know what?
Because he wouldn't like, hedidn't even know what tap being,
he wouldn't do it Right, he waslike like changed.
So I thought you know what, no,I can't, I can't.
He's gonna have to go to a realplace if he wants to continue

(01:07:01):
right or with me, like for somereason he takes it personal.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
He but I don't think the majority of fathers in
today's day and age are raisingtheir children to be that you
know um assertive and engagingno, plus, I used to be real
strict.

Speaker 4 (01:07:18):
When he was little.
He misbehaved.
I would probably younger by theyear was your father strict
with you?
no, my father was like, becauseI think my father, I think we
were his third family, his final, his first two families,
because he was a, he was like,um, I guess he was kind of like
a rebel type, so he had divorces.

(01:07:39):
Yeah, his kids didn't talk tohim so when he got to, when we
were his family, he did it right.
Yeah, he was like totally likehe got his life together and so
he was a totally differentperson.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
You felt you had to be firm in your son's life.
Why?
Because of the Marine Corps.
You know what?

Speaker 4 (01:07:56):
I think it was the Marine Corps that must have did
that to me because I had noreason to no.
And then also just seeing,because almost everybody that I
knew growing up was in jail ordead, okay, and just seeing that
, and then, after seeing thestuff that I seen you know,
reading people's rap sheets,right, and all these people in
trouble, and I think that's whatturned me into being strict on

(01:08:17):
him.
You trouble, and I think that'swhat turned me into being
strict on him.
You know what?
This ain't a game.
Everybody I might have gotlucky that I, that I got to go
this way, because everybody thatI knew died drug addict, um, or
never got their stuff togetheror got deported.

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
Facts dude and then.

Speaker 4 (01:08:33):
so I was like that's why I was like, why am I so?
But I was like and in a way Iwas like, why am I so?
But I was like and in a way Iwas like I think it was good in
a way, because he didn't end uplike the rest of these, the
regular new generation of beingpampered.
But in a way it's something Ithink, man, maybe I was a little
too, so I don't know, I don'tknow if it was a good thing or a

(01:08:55):
bad thing.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
I think you did it right, bro.
You know what I mean.
You don't know if it was a goodthing or a bad thing being uh,
I think I think you did it right, bro.
Like you know, I mean, youdon't strike me as a person that
goes overboard.
You seem level-headed and cool,calm, collective yeah, because
in the moment yeah, but then Iwould talk to him afterwards but
I I would like for you to maybegive some tips to a new
correctional staff member of howimportant it is to understand
your environment yeah, it's veryimportant, and the only thing

(01:09:20):
is you're gonna get caught upbecause you're gonna have these
different types of people.

Speaker 4 (01:09:23):
They're working.
You're gonna have the peoplethat don't care.
You can have the people thatare just weak.
You can other people that aretoo aggressive, mm-hmm, and
those are just phonies.
That facts that probably.
I mean I don't, maybe becausethe way I grew up and I seen all
this stuff growing up, so soyou can see these people that

(01:09:44):
try too hard and they're alittle too aggressive, and like,
because I've had people, I justtell me you know, we're trying
to take a guy down, he's tooaggressive.
You know what?
Get out, right, like, get out,let me and I did it myself- yeah
.
By myself, I would put a guy inand take care of the other guy.
You know there's people likethat spaz, they spaz, and so

(01:10:08):
that's the thing that makes ithard is depends what kind of
different officers are in yourunit or around you, because you
can tell whenever you get to adorm okay, who's the officer?
I'm here with.

Speaker 3 (01:10:20):
Did you have more problems with partners or with
the?
Detainees inmates was nothinglike bro, it's funny how
everybody's everybody says thatdude everybody, because you
would get the the.

Speaker 4 (01:10:33):
You know the people that try to, mostly because I
I've always, I was always inshape, so they can tell who they
would test it.
That's why I always believed inofficer presence.
But I wasn't an ass, I was justyou know what, and I think a
lot of them knew that, you know,because I wasn't going to

(01:10:55):
hesitate, even though when itgot to the point where we had to
give them three warningseventually it came to that later
on during the years and then itwould just be three quick ones
and boom, you're on.

Speaker 3 (01:11:06):
So basically dude like how important is physical
fitness in life in general, butspecifically working in law
enforcement?

Speaker 4 (01:11:15):
Well, my main thing was because I always carried
that from the Marine Corps,right?
Well, my main thing was becauseI always carried that from the
marine corps, right, because ofthe uniform, always, um, um, you
know your presence.
Even in law enforcement theysay officer presence.
That's the first to defuse thesituation is officer presence
and then from there, hopefully,then you don't have to go spray

(01:11:36):
and the baton or hands-on Minewas hands on.

Speaker 3 (01:11:38):
You mind if I tell them your age bro?
Yeah 58 years old man, 58.
In about a week Better shapethan 90, 95% of the regular
people out here man.

Speaker 4 (01:11:51):
As a matter of fact, I used to do a lot of running
but I got paranoid because of myage and I said you know what I
don?
Paranoid because of my age andI said you know what?
I don't want to get a heartattack because I was scared.
I started getting paranoid ofuh, because you never know, not
the heart attack was a bad heart, but because the ones that uh,
you know your heart yeah and Iwas like and then I kind of like
four years ago I stopped, kindof like I really don't run no
more.

(01:12:12):
um, but I've always eitherweight lifted, for sure
non-stops, and then and if not,I would do a lot of cardio, I
would always do something.

Speaker 3 (01:12:23):
Do you believe that the detainees didn't test you or
didn't push your buttonsbecause they knew you didn't
mess around?

Speaker 4 (01:12:32):
Yeah, they knew, as a matter of fact, when that fight
broke out in the kitchen that'swhat kind of, because you could
see it on video when I slammedthat guy and the way I got on
top of him.
Yeah.
And then everything like froze,even though OIC at that time
goes, you should give this guyyou know something, because he's
the one that kind of everythingkind of like stopped.
And then because if you sit onvideo it was like and then the

(01:12:55):
guy was like he was a littlestocky Armenian guy and he was a
little bigger than me, and thenbecause I remember they
wouldn't stop fighting and hewas punching one of the other
guys over, one of the old timersthat was a little short officer
.
We had a lot of officers.

(01:13:15):
There were kind of like paisatypes.
Yeah.
That mostly if you spoke to them, they spoke to you spanish,
okay, the officers originalsthat were there.
So he was trying to like,really not doing nothing, trying
to hold that guy in his place.
Another guy was punching overhim.
So that's when I grabbed thatguy and did that.
So I kind of diffusedeverything, calmed everything
down and even though I see thisis during the time when I, when

(01:13:35):
I started getting distaste forthe way, the favoritism, because
the way they would write up,like even though I didn't like
that, the attaboys, the awardsand all that, yeah, but it's
still, you could see, like noneof the supervisors followed up
on.
You know, okay, this happened,even though IC said it Right,
none of the supervisors like.

(01:13:56):
And there was one time in theisolation where a guy went on
the roof of the isolations andhe was on the edge of the
building.
Me and another supervisor weretrying to talk to him, you know,
because we didn't know if hewas going to jump or what, and I
remember the supervisor wastalking to him and then I
remember I was like, okay,should I go?
Should I go?
And then I jumped and I alreadyhad it in my mind If I grab him
.
I have to fall back this way.

(01:14:16):
So I jumped, I grabbed him andthen pulled him back in.
Nothing for that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:21):
How did that guy get up onto the building?

Speaker 4 (01:14:29):
Because inside there's a little closet and then
there's a ladder that goes up,so somehow I don't know how they
let him out, and then he got upthere.
It was a Cuban.
So I remember a lot of thingsthat I did, and then I would see
the way they would, uh, giveout of boys to like for no
reason, for just dumb stuff tolames yeah, what about ass?
Kissers, yeah that.
But even though it didn'treally, it kind of bothered me

(01:14:50):
just to man like what is this?

Speaker 3 (01:14:52):
place.
So this is you, this is yougetting.

Speaker 4 (01:14:55):
I'm just a taste for it yeah, because back then I
wasn't really plus I'm actuallybecause I was more.
I was more.
I guess now the terms I'mstarting to learn is I guess I
was an introvert.
Yeah, so I'm starting to learnall these new terms.
I don't know, I'm just.
And then I was just a veryquiet but I didn't like playing

(01:15:16):
games.
That was my whole thing.
I didn't like playing games.
For we got gotta do thingsright.

Speaker 3 (01:15:22):
We gotta so, as all this is happening, I'm sure you
were raised to stay quiet aswell, not complain yeah, but I
did go through my time of uh ofcomplaining about, but in the
beginning.
It's because the environment.

Speaker 4 (01:15:37):
What happens is the environment around you.
Eventually, because I wasn'tlike that correct, and then
eventually, as time went by, Istarted turning into like like
everybody else, like gossipingand talking how far into your
career?

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
no, that was like probably 10 years, okay of just
after.
That's understandable yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:15:57):
And then you see things like because my saying
was you can't beat them, jointhem.
And then after a while, like Iwould just hold a lot of things
in like what is?
This and then and then.
Another bad thing back then isI didn't like doing overtime
because I also wanted, you know,I used to like to go lift
weights, I used to go like to gorun and then so I didn't want

(01:16:19):
to be there, all you know, 16hours a day, so I didn't like
doing overtime.

Speaker 3 (01:16:25):
Were there guys that were overtime hogs, oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:16:28):
And then at that time I guess well, like that time, I
was taking care of my father.
He was elderly they cut his legoff, but back then they didn't
have no mercy about it.
Whatever you had at home wasyour personal issues.
And so I remember, and then itturned like it goes through some

(01:16:48):
extremes, like okay, we don'tcare what you got going on, you
figure it out.
To the other extreme at the endbefore I left, like they have
to cater to the officer,whatever you know he's got going
on, you're going to have tocater to his and the other
officers are going to have tofigure it out.
And it just it goes from oneextreme to the next instead of

(01:17:09):
there being some kind of balance.
So then, that's what I've seen,just the extremes of.
To me, that's a lack ofleadership, like you don't know,
is it?

Speaker 3 (01:17:19):
Well, yeah, that's a lack of leadership, like you
don't know, is it?
Well, yeah, it's lack ofleadership, but what about how
often was leadership changing?

Speaker 4 (01:17:25):
Were they staying put for a while, or the regular
first liners, second liners,yeah, they were there like the
whole time.
I remember, for years and yearsand years.
The only thing that wouldchange constantly was the OIC
officer charge, like, of thewhole facility, and they were
usually there what three or fouryears.
Okay, so you can tell the first, the first one that was there,

(01:17:47):
he was, he was, uh, he wore likehis own military outfit and
actually I think he was the bestone that that I liked yeah was
that guy and people were likewhat is he wearing?
like he had his own kind of.
He looked like a military, uh,uniform but it was not a
military no and then, uh, andthen he was like, and he didn't
play no games.
If there was one time there was, a detainee was on top, he said

(01:18:07):
he was gonna jump, he was gonnahang himself, and then I
remember he was scolding him, hewas this and that he wasn't
babying him, and then, um, andthen he didn't play no games at
all.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
Was he Mexican.

Speaker 4 (01:18:18):
No, he's a white guy.

Speaker 3 (01:18:19):
White dude.

Speaker 4 (01:18:20):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
Was he from California I?

Speaker 4 (01:18:22):
think it was from San Diego.
Okay, and then him, was he?
Crazy.
No, he was just military-ish,okay, and then you can tell, as
the different OICs, how kind ofthe atmosphere changed a little
bit, and then I guess also thecan tell, as the different OICs,
how the kind of the atmospherechanged a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:18:41):
And then I guess also the Now as the OICs change.
Did you observe any of yourpeers try to kiss ass to the new
OICs?

Speaker 4 (01:18:47):
Yeah, I hated it, I couldn't stand that, and that's
one thing that, yeah, I don'tknow, I never understood.
That Like, I don't know, Inever seen, because the military
you'll see it a little bit kindof, but that was not really
because they're the NCOs, thecorporals and above.
You couldn't like that was verystrict and that's one thing I
wish was with the federalgovernment, which it should be.

(01:19:10):
You shouldn't be fraternizingyes, because I didn't like that
the regular officers you knowwith maybe the first liners but
not the you know, and sometimesthere was favoritism all the way
to the top, and that's onething that I dislike or like.

(01:19:33):
On promotion, whenever therewas going to be an opening for a
promotion, man, like it wasunbelievable the way people
behave like just seeing that puta distaste in my mouth with
like give some examples it'shard for me to sabotaging no,
it's hard for me to because somany.
It's because I mix things upbecause I, you know, it was so
many years, so many different.

Speaker 3 (01:19:53):
Right, sometimes I mix incidents up, and but that
for sure was like but I mean,did you ever see where one of
your co-workers would putanother co-worker down to make
themselves look better?

Speaker 4 (01:20:04):
yeah, they would talk bad about, about each other, I
guess, like politics.
Well, I guess it's politicsit's human behavior, bro.

Speaker 3 (01:20:12):
I've come to realize it's human behavior and it's
disgusting yeah, and that's whyI was like you know what?

Speaker 4 (01:20:16):
that's not.
That's why I had no interestever.
I don't ever had no interestever.
I don't ever want to be inmanagement.
I don't ever want to be.
I'm just going to stay in thetrenches.

Speaker 3 (01:20:23):
Did you stay in the trenches?
Yeah, so tell me about how youwent from detaining officer to
the other positions that you oh,and then from there what
happened?

Speaker 4 (01:20:30):
9-11 happened, and then they got rid.
There was something going on inthe upper ranks.
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:20:41):
Locally or no?

Speaker 4 (01:20:43):
like the whole agency .
So there was issues going on.
And then I guess this was theopportunity when L11 came.
You know what?
Let's get rid of INS.
There's too many issues, toomany EOs, and I don't know what
it was back then.
And then we're going to get ridof all that.
We're going to create a new.

(01:21:04):
There's our chance.
They created Department ofHomeland Security, got rid of
INS and then they combined theport.
It was no longer Customs andInspectors, it was a combination
.
And then with us, what was it?
Immigration Enforcement Agents,that's where we were.
And then Border Patrol.
What was it?
Immigration enforcement agents,that's where we were.
And then Border Patrol was justBorder Patrol.

Speaker 3 (01:21:24):
So you said it broke down to HSI, ero and what else.

Speaker 4 (01:21:27):
Just those two with us with ICE.
So it was HSI and then ERO, andthen ERO, though at that time
we were immigration enforcementagents.
That's where we went to.
From detention, we went well,we had to go back to the academy
.
You passed the academy and nowyou're part of the new uh,
immigration enforcement agent.
And then um and then and thenfrom there.

Speaker 3 (01:21:55):
So when you went to ERO.
Did you feel good?
Because at that time were youfed up where you were at.

Speaker 4 (01:22:03):
Well, I was still.
I stayed there.
They were barely opening it upto get out of the detention.
And then, but at that time itwas just doing like Sentinella
and Calipat interview, and therewas a little trailer outside
the prisons and you would goinside interview the guys that
were getting ready to get out in, like Sentinella and Calipat
Interview, and there was alittle trailer outside the
prisons, yeah, and you would goinside interview the guys that
were getting ready to get out,that immigration holds, and then

(01:22:26):
.
So that was the firstopportunity to get out of the
detention center.
Okay, and then so for me Ididn't put in, even though I was
fed up.
I didn't put in right away toget out Because I was like
comfortable, I didn't want to.

(01:22:48):
When am I going to learn allthis new stuff over here?
So eventually it came to apoint yeah, I had to get out.
I had to go Because at thattime I don't know, in my mid-30s
maybe, at that time I was sofed up.
I even put in to be.
I came and took a test here inSan Diego to be Harbor Police,
okay.
And I was already working forthe federal government as a
detention officer, right, and Iwas going to go to the city.
It made no sense, but I was fedup, I guess, and I wanted a

(01:23:09):
whole new, you know.
So I came to do the HarborPolice but I didn't get a high
enough score Okay To even beconsidered, you know to, to keep
going so your story is notabnormal, man.

Speaker 3 (01:23:19):
There's a lot of men that join and women that join
these agencies and they reach apoint where they freaking, get
fed up and they start lookingfor other options and the.

Speaker 4 (01:23:31):
The thing I think is because when I went in I went in
like man.
I didn't even know I could workfor the.
You know I came in as a I guessan immigrant.
I grew up in all the lower.
Well first, the poverty ofMexico Right Doesn't even
compare to the poverty here.
My cousins thought I was richand we were poor.

(01:23:53):
Right.
So then, growing up just poor,poor, poor, and then, when it
come time, like oh, I couldactually go work for the
government.
Yeah.
Like it felt like an honor, likeman I get, you know, go work
for the government and then sofrom there you know I was like,
so I went in there, you know,with you know a sense of I

(01:24:14):
always had, even till now, evenduring 9-11, I was working for
as an ICE officer, and I Ialways have, even until now,
even during 9-11, I was workingas an ICE officer and I wanted
to go to— 9-11.
Yeah, I even wrote a letter toWashington DC or the White House
or something.
Yeah.
Because I said, how can I getback in the military?
I wrote a letter and then theywrote a letter back oh, thank
you for your service and thisand that, and they wrote a

(01:24:35):
letter, right.
But I still had this sense ofduty, even back.
I was already in 10 years.
I was going to actually, and Ihad my spouse at that time and I
was actually going to.
That's how much I was like Ifelt a sense of duty to this
country.
For some reason that I wanted,like I pumped up.
I got pumped up in the.
I didn't get to go to the Iraqione because that one happened.

(01:24:58):
The first one, the Desert Shieldbecause, it happened three
months after I left, and so thatone and then I was all trained
up and I was just like and thenthe only thing I got to go back
to Camp Pendleton and just helpwith the School of Infantry.
That's the only thing they letme do.
So I couldn't go back, Eventhough I was in active reserve.

(01:25:20):
They could activate so for somereason.
But like things happen foreverything happens for a reason,
dude.
So it didn't happen, even though, and then, but I've always had
this feeling I was pissed outbecause I didn't get, because I
was infantry, so I did all thistraining, and then I always felt
this sense of um of uh, Ididn't get to, to to, you know,

(01:25:41):
to go do my mind, what I wassupposed to do or what I was
trained to do you know, I alwaystell people that tell me that,
that they're better off oh yeahyeah, way better off, because
ultimately, what you get withthat is gonna stay with you
forever so, um, okay, 9-11, Istill had that, that sense of

(01:26:02):
always, had this sense of duty.
Yeah, and then what I figuredout later on why did things
bother me?
So is something wrong with me?
Why does everything bother mewhen things aren't run right and
when people like you know this,all this, this, uh incompetence
favoritism ne nepotism.
And nobody really cared.
And then I found out, you knowwhat I think?
I think it's because mostpeople went in there as a job,

(01:26:25):
or they went in there or theyended up there.
To me it was just okay.
I have a little more money, Imake a little more money.
I never was going to theseexcept for the security where
they were paying minimum wage.
That was the only time I saidyou know what?
I got to go here because theymake more money.
Everything else was just like asense of duty, sense of duty,

(01:26:46):
and I felt like and then thething was, I think, where you
got to follow your instincts,where I messed up, I think, and
I followed comfort, because atthe same time I got hired for
detention INS, I also got hiredfor Border Patrol, my Border
Patrol, because eventually Ipassed it and I went through the
whole process and I actually Ineeded to pick a location and

(01:27:07):
that's it.
And at that time I was workingsecurity there three years and
then they picked me up for INS,for a detention officer, and I
was like you know what, I'mcomfortable here.
Yeah, I went for detentionofficer.
And I was like you know what,I'm comfortable here.
Yeah, I went for the comfortInstead of going border patrol.
I think it would have been abetter fit for me.
Well, because I still had themilitary-ish.

Speaker 3 (01:27:28):
Yes and no because they had to deal with their own
BS.
Yeah, With all the politics.

Speaker 4 (01:27:33):
Yeah, and then I found out, yeah, those things
were going on there too, correct?
The what do they call it?
The good old boys, they call iteverything, dude.
So that was just a thing backthen of the of that of that era,
and uh, so, so, yeah, so Iended up, uh, oh, eventually,
2011, I think I finally came outto the um, what would you call

(01:27:56):
it, though?
The non-detained unit.
What is?
that those are the ones that doall the people that are out on
bonds, or you go look for thefugitives.
You were doing that.
Yeah, that was all part of ERO.

Speaker 3 (01:28:09):
Oh, that's when you told me you were wearing
civilian clothes.

Speaker 4 (01:28:11):
Yeah, so that was part of the non-detained.

Speaker 3 (01:28:14):
Did you have a badge like tucked underneath?
Yeah, the badge, so you'reundercover.

Speaker 4 (01:28:19):
Yeah, you have a badge like tucked underneath.
Yeah the badge, so you'reundercover.
Yeah, well, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:28:22):
Would you ever participate in like big raids or
with HSI?

Speaker 4 (01:28:26):
Not really, because it wasn't that much, there
wasn't that much, there wasn't.
And then it started gettingpolitical too, like one time
there was a time where we weretaking people that had warrants
in Mexico for murder.
Okay, you two, take this guy,meet up the officials at the
border and turn him over.
He has a warrant for murder.
Later on it turned into a dogand pony show.

(01:28:48):
The people were gleefully, theyhad to go to TJ, they had to go
in a caravan, they had to meetup all these officials, because
I went one time and they had tomeet.
And then there was photos andall kinds of stuff.
I was like, wait a minute,we're doing this, like two years
ago, just wherever two officersavailable.
Pick up this guy.
He has a warrant.
Meet the counselor at the border, turn him over to the mexican

(01:29:09):
uh, the federals just hand themoff yeah, and just hand them off
and then next, you know, itturned into like that's one
thing I didn't like, I didn'tlike the politics dude, you got
to see you.
You got to see the change andthe bs man that's why I I stayed
where I was at, but I was veryobservant, and especially being
uh, um, I guess, because I guess, being an introvert type person

(01:29:31):
, you're always looking, youalways think right, you're
always analyzing where do youthink these changes, from your
vantage point, were coming from?

Speaker 3 (01:29:37):
like washington dc?
Yeah, everything yeaheverything was coming down from
washington and and filter thefilth was filtering into the and
you could just see that.

Speaker 4 (01:29:48):
and it got to the point where, like when, the some
of the top brass would comefrom from san diego, from the
field office, or here, san diegoto imperial, to the field
office.
Like I had to get out, Icouldn't be there when they were
walking around Bro you remindme a lot about myself, man.
Because the and then you couldsee some guy.
There were certain people Idon't want to say their names,

(01:30:09):
but they were like they wantedto acknowledge their rank.
But this agency does notdeserve that.
This agency is not the MarineCorps.
Yes, yeah.
And, but the agency lacksleadership.
There's no leadership, there'smanagement, management.
It turned out at the end it wasjust management, because before

(01:30:29):
there was a time when they werehiring like the next level up
of supervisors, it had to bebecause you know leadership
skills and you knew your job andyou went to you know now you
could lead your.
But then at the end they didn'tcare about leadership, it was
just management.
Could you?

Speaker 3 (01:30:46):
give me the difference between a leader and
a manager.

Speaker 4 (01:30:51):
A manager is just, he's going to do no matter what,
what the next level, eventhough it's in the policies or
not, even though it's in thepolicies or not even though it's
in the policy or not I knowyeah was there times that you
observed violation of policy yes, but the thing is I didn't know
enough about it, I didn't careenough about it.
I, you know, I didn't, I, youknow I was already dealing just

(01:31:13):
with regular life stuff outsideof there, right, and then I
didn't have the, even the smartsor the know-how, or even the
motivation to try to, like youwere doing, like attacking the,
because they're there.

Speaker 3 (01:31:26):
I'm not knocking you, bro, because that's your
generation, that's yourgeneration, that's my father's
generation.
You guys did what you guys hadat that time.
Just grind it out.
Just grind that shit out.

Speaker 4 (01:31:36):
Me, I had well, somebody that for sure doesn't
show favoritism.
That was the main one.
And then who?
Who leads by example?
And then they know, they knowlike their job, they know like

(01:32:01):
you know, and then I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:32:06):
It's hard for me to no, you're right on the money,
bro.

Speaker 4 (01:32:08):
You're right on the money so, yeah, you could see
it's cause.
The bad thing is I comparethings to, to the and this is
not even though to me, becauseyou know I went in there.
Oh, you know it's an honor towork for the government and then
to see the behavior like thatactually bothered me, like, like
it was hard for me to like andthen eventually I would

(01:32:29):
participate too in the, thenormal yeah horse playing, and,
and then um, now, when you wereparticipating in stuff that you
did not want to participate with, did you not feel right inside?
yeah, and I was like when didthis happen?
Why am I?
And then, because it was a time, like at the end, where I was
like hey, did you hear so-and-soand this and that and like a

(01:32:51):
lot of just like like actinglike kids.

Speaker 3 (01:32:54):
Was that also affecting your personal life?

Speaker 4 (01:32:57):
You know what?
Yeah, everything that because Iwould hold a lot of things in,
I would hold a lot of things inand then eventually it would get
to like when I got home becausesometimes the kid even though I
had my kid and I would give himthe attention, but now that I
see everything, I wasn't givinghim the attention that needed to
be given because I still hadthe stuff from work that would

(01:33:20):
bug me and I was holding stuffin and just stuff that, the
stage of stuff at work.
And then, like they tell you,you don't bring your personal
problems here, but I would takemy my work problems right and I
wouldn't focus on the that'scommon, that's extremely common
on more that I could havefocused on the because of the
frustration.

(01:33:41):
And now I think, man, maybe Ishould have just uh, either okay
I wasn't, either just okay, I'mnot gonna do nothing about
anything, or or move on, becausethose times where you know what
I'm gonna, I gotta move on.
I gotta go here.
I gotta, because I seen peoplethat were fed up and they went.
They went to either hsi, okay,or they went to um, you know.

(01:34:04):
They got out of there but werethey happier over there?

Speaker 3 (01:34:07):
I don't know.
Okay, well, you know what theysay the grass isn't always green
on the other side and the onlything about these other places
is the hours were way longer,right.

Speaker 4 (01:34:15):
So then I was like, well, it's not gonna, because I
it was.
Uh.
Well, at that time I was a, Iwas a single parent, I was
taking care of my kid, so I hadfull custody of him and um, so
then that kind of like, eventhough I could have still made
it work.
But at the moment I was like,is it worth it?
I was too undecisive, and sothen I would just have to deal

(01:34:38):
with just holding stuff.
In that I seen theunprofessionalism.

Speaker 3 (01:34:46):
Did you ever see people get wrong, wrongfully
terminated?
Do people get fired from thatjob or harassed or retaliated
against?

Speaker 4 (01:34:57):
you know what I I don't.
I know there was, but I don'tremember right now, like offhand
, but there was.
Well, I was one, I was, I wasone of them because I guess, for
some reason, because I wasn'tpart of the cliques, right, so I
wasn't kissing up to the, tothe management at that time, to
the supervisors, and then fromthere I guess it seemed like um,

(01:35:20):
because I was, I was, I wasquiet, I was serious, I wanted
to get things done like the waythey're supposed to be done, and
then I guess I wasn't fitting,that type of person wasn't
fitting in in the environment,and then, uh, but you know,
what's crazy is that yourpersonality should be what's
running the whole entireorganization yeah, and then uh.

(01:35:41):
So then uh, there was a one of,I guess, the topper managers, I
guess he.
He got a hold of one of thelower, the first liners and he
told me you know what, and thenso they were kind of harassing
me for a while.
But the bad thing is, okay, Iwon't, I kind of like not really
say much to you because I don'thave a middle I'm either gonna,
you know okay let you get awaywith whatever.

(01:36:03):
but then, when it comes to that,because it was a couple times
where I was gonna fight the thesupervisor because of the way
they were talking to me- yeah.
And it got to that level.

Speaker 3 (01:36:12):
Do you feel that they were talking down to you or
disrespecting you?
Yeah, or trying to assertthemselves over you because of
their rank.

Speaker 4 (01:36:21):
Yeah, and then that's when it got to that point and
then so, but that was a fewincidents like that.

Speaker 3 (01:36:30):
But what happened with the COVID and the
vaccination?

Speaker 4 (01:36:37):
Oh, eventually at the end I ended up, or no?
The COVID stuff came and therewas already a cluster there with
the what was going on back then?
I, what was going on?
Back then?
I forgot what was going on.
But the COVID came and then Iwas watching the news.
I was going on with this virus.
When it first came out, I waslike, okay, what's this virus?

(01:36:59):
I was going to the gym Okay,what's going on with this virus?
I was watching the news.
Okay, it's over here, it's here, this is happening.
I'm going.
Okay, it's over here, it's here, this is happening.
I'm gonna keep going to the gym.
Yeah, less people were going tothe gym.
I was still open, I was goingto the gym, I was still doing
normal stuff, telling the kids,hey, start eating.
Uh, you know, start drinkingwater, start preparing, because
it's some kind of virus.
And then, next thing, you know,and then they closed the gym

(01:37:23):
down.
And then I was like, and thenthat's when I started seeing the
oh, that's.
Another thing that got to mewas when all this, the riots
with Antifa I was watching allthis stuff, yeah, and back then
I was an agent and I was gettingso mad that the agency was not
responding to these situationsand I was like, what is God, why

(01:37:45):
are they letting these peoplejust burn down America?
Right.
And then Antifa and this andthat, as a matter of fact, what
they have, the Proud Boys.
Yeah, I was like cheering thoseguys on because they were the
only ones that were standing up,right, and what happens is the
federal government or the lawenforcement goes after those
guys, targets those guys andclassifies them as domestic

(01:38:05):
terrorists, and I'm like just totop it off after already seeing
the.
You're losing your damn mind,bro.
Yeah, I'm also like you gottabe like what is going.
And then I was like, and thenuh, so I seen all that and uh,
and then the virus was likethat's when the virus was the
main.
And then oh no, but they have aright to to protest, or their,

(01:38:28):
their, their, what racism orwhatever their blm or stuff yeah
, and I was like you gotta be.
And then the thing is, because Iwas already, I was conflicted,
I was already I was workingthere, and then you know, and
then I'm working as a, as a, asa federal officer, but I was
like you know what, I think I'drather go out and then I'm gonna
resign and and and go fight forthe country.

(01:38:50):
That was my main thing is forthe country, not for the
government.
My thing is the Constitutionand the founding fathers and the
foundations of this government.
Because you know, in the MarineCorps they say was it God
country, corps Was God for sure?
Country always meant theConstitution, no, not the

(01:39:13):
government.
And then corps family right,which is the marine.
Corps was your family.
And that's the way I interpretthose.

Speaker 3 (01:39:19):
Uh, do you believe having a government is essential
to the united states of america?

Speaker 4 (01:39:25):
yeah, because I look at society, they're.
It's because of society theylet themselves.
It's more of a set up.
A lot of things are like thedrugs and the.
You know it's out there, peoplefought for it and they're.
And because government thatgives an excuse for there to be
a government even bigger than ithas to be, it's manufactured

(01:39:46):
chaos.
And then people are because Isee sometimes, because that's
why I'm like you know what, Istill feel.
I don't feel like I'm down to alevel where I'm just going to
be a civilian.
I still feel a sense of dutybecause of the country, correct,
even though I think the countryhas already gone.
I think it's been gone.

Speaker 3 (01:40:07):
Do you believe mainstream media?
No.
Did you ever reach a pointwhere you realized they were
lying?

Speaker 4 (01:40:13):
Yeah, a long time ago .

Speaker 3 (01:40:15):
A long time ago, like when.

Speaker 4 (01:40:18):
Like 20 years ago, 15 years ago, okay yeah, even back
then when I was in the MarineCorps, the things I remember is
don't believe everything youread, don't trust the government
.
From this stuff I was hearingfrom and that stuff was always
in my head and what else, andthese little sayings, you know

(01:40:40):
that the sticks and stones maybreak your bones.

Speaker 3 (01:40:43):
If the government is here and says if you need their
help or something.

Speaker 4 (01:40:47):
I don't know why I feel this dedication to, to the,
to the country, oh, I feel youbro but, and the thing is, what
makes it funny is because Iwouldn't.
I wasn't even born in thiscountry, correct, and when I was
seeing all this stuff going onwith the black lives matter, and
I was like, when other people,the americans, I wasn't even
born here and I'm pissed off.
When is the the country people?
Aren't those the original, themain, the country people, the

(01:41:11):
you know, the you know?

Speaker 3 (01:41:15):
Do you believe well, not the ones you're talking
about.
Do you believe Americans,patriotic Americans, are built
of a different breed.

Speaker 4 (01:41:27):
Yeah, but it's hard to.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:41:29):
Know because I've seen some of these patriot types
oh, not those guys, not thethey seem kind of uh, no, not
the ones that are out theredoing, you know, weird stuff,
but I'm talking about like, likeyourself, man, yeah, uh, that
would basically die for theircountry everybody's out for
themselves nowadays yeah, Idon't think there's enough.

Speaker 4 (01:41:50):
Uh, even some of these.
Sometimes these youtubes pop upabout these special forces,
these ex-seals guys oh they're.

Speaker 3 (01:41:57):
They're beefing right now, but I was like what is
going on?

Speaker 4 (01:42:00):
like women and then I'm like, and then they started
getting brave with the with uhbecause of the palestine
protests yeah and I'm like whydidn't they speak up when the
real ones were going on?
Like you know, these are mainlywomen that are protesting
whatever's going on there withthe issues with Palestine and
all this.
Yeah.
And those are mainly campuses.
Women None of these guys poppedup during the Black Lives

(01:42:22):
Matter and the guys that aregoing to fight you.

Speaker 3 (01:42:27):
Now some people might say that that's racist.
Is it a racism thing or is itan actions thing?

Speaker 4 (01:42:40):
No, it's an actions, it's a racism Like the first
time I ever heard about racismwhen I was in the marine corps.
I got I got um racist remarksdid they call you?
uh, derogatory words yeah, likelike beaner and like, but that
never right like.
And then that's the first timeI was exposed to the.

(01:43:01):
I guess they called the blackcard when I started seeing the.
Yeah, back then, like I never.
I didn't know nothing aboutthat because I witnessed it in
cuba and the guy got, they tookhim out of our unit and he was
the general's driver though theyear he was there or the rest of
the time he was there in cubahe was just driving the the, not
the general, the colonel yeahand uh, that's the first time I

(01:43:23):
heard about that I didn't knowabout, like, that's why I seen
people the way they were actingtowards black people.
Oh, I don't want to, that's justthe way.
I mean, I'm from that area, sothat's the way I speak.
But, um, I could see the, thehesitation to to address, you
know, that population, but notwith the mexicans or not with
anybody else.

Speaker 3 (01:43:43):
So, for some reason, uh, just with that, that
population, um, now, when itcame to uh, the vaccine and all
these political changes, wereyou forced to get the vaccine?

Speaker 4 (01:44:02):
yeah, because that's when I was, I was, I was
listening, they were trying towhen they were missing.
You know, trying to intimidateyou right, first at the
beginning, trying to get you to,and then because I was watching
this every day.
I was watching the and thenBiden, what he had to say, and
the governor and man that put somuch.
I think because right now mynerves like I got a nerve issue

(01:44:23):
that happened because of all theaccumulated yeah, yeah
definitely Like somethinghappened.

Speaker 3 (01:44:30):
My wires went haywire a little bit.
No, it's all the neurons orwhatever it's called.

Speaker 4 (01:44:34):
So something happened .
But because I was watching thatevery day, I was listening, and
then I was also thinking, whatam I going to do?
And then, man, should I getthat, I don't want to get that?
Because I was scared of theshot.
And then I was like man untilthen.
Then that one day the presidentcame out everybody will.
I was gonna go and then resignthat out.
That day I was gonna tell youknow what who was the president

(01:44:57):
at that time?
biden.
And then, because he's under achain of command, right, he's
the, the top guy, and then sohis order goes directly to.
You know what he says, hisexecutive order.
You could try to challenge it,but but you know, as an unlawful
order, correct.
But so then I was like man.
So then okay, I'll, justbecause they keep sending me

(01:45:18):
this email, this task force, theCOVID task force, out of
Florida, which was made up ofdifferent INS personnel, and
they would send these emailsevery day, every day, every day,
until the day came that, uh,that I actually got reprimanded
at the time you got reprimandedhad already a lot of other
people taking the shot yeah, alot of people.

(01:45:39):
Some were like it's not going todo nothing to you, don't matter
.
And then there was the groupthat were like I don't want to
lose my job, I don't want to getit, but you know, I got my kids
and you know this and that.
And then you got the ones thatput in for the exemptions
religious and medical but I waslike I'm not going to play, I'm
not going to say if they werehonest about their religious

(01:46:01):
views and that's what causedthem not to get the vaccine, but
I'm like I'm not going to playwith God because I take God
serious, correct.
So I'm not going to because Icould have did that, because I
knew it was a game, right, youput in for that.
Okay, they don't have to dealwith you for a while.
You're waiting on yourexemption, right, and then
everybody's covered.
I threw a curveball I think Iwas the only one that I know of

(01:46:24):
office San Diego that justdidn't want to get it and um,
dude.

Speaker 3 (01:46:28):
I commend you for that dude.

Speaker 4 (01:46:30):
And then I even did the.
I did everything they asked for, cause you have to, uh, put
your status, what's going on,you know, did you get the shot?
They have the special website.
You log into and you input your, you know your status, or
what's going on.
I did all that until the daycame Well, I'm not, not gonna

(01:46:50):
get the vaccine.
I can't, I'm not gonna, this isthe part I can't do.
So then I didn't do it.
And then what they get you forthe typical um insubordination
yeah, we're not in support offailure to follow through.
I don't know something.
And then, so I got reprimanded.
And, uh, so I got reprimanded.
And and then, uh, so after thatI was already like.
I was already like, as a matterof fact, I was so stressed out

(01:47:14):
I was getting like like shot.
I never found out what that was.
I will get like my eyeball andit would throw like a shock all
the way to the back of my head.
Yeah, and my eyeball will golike this and then like a shock
all the way back.
To this day I google it.
Uh, I don't know if it was somekind of stroke.
Something was going on, andthat's when I say you know what,
I gotta leave.

(01:47:35):
I can't.
Even when I wrote the email Iwrote you know what, due to my
mental health and this and thatand right, I wrote a pretty
decent email which now wouldprobably help to show that I had
to leave, that I had to leave,that I had to leave because of
the, the shot.
It's called constructivedischarge.
When you fail, you have nochoice.
Right, and you left.

(01:47:55):
So that's why it's still.
I mean, if I could get it goingto the federal court, that
part's going to be covered whereit shows that, because I tried,
I tried to, you know like Iain't got no choice, it's
affecting my mental health,right.
And then I was like I don'twant to.
And then eventually I just youknow what I gotta leave, put in

(01:48:17):
my like within two or threeweeks, put everything out and
then I was out retired.
Yeah well, I claimed myretirement because I at that
time I was messed up too.
I couldn't go out and just geta job, right, that was my.
I was all, I was all like, Iwas all stressed out and that
was two years ago yeah, 22february 22 february 2022, and

(01:48:38):
how have you been since then?

Speaker 3 (01:48:40):
does it feel good to be?

Speaker 4 (01:48:41):
the first year I was just in my, even my, my I think
my kid is watching this.
I hate this, but because my kidlives with me still, so for a
year straight, for sure, for ayear straight, I was in my bed,
just laying in my bed, watchingYouTube about the vaccines,
about the current events, aboutthe riots, about the.

(01:49:02):
You know, I'm watching all thisstuff and then so I'm just
laying in bed all day.
I go to the gym.
I feel good, come, I'm justlaying in bed all day.
I go to the gym.
I feel good, come back justlaying there.
And then I did that for like ayear straight and then after
that I still like, if I getmotivated to do something, oh,
you know, I'm gonna do thistoday and then I, my body just

(01:49:22):
shuts down, like, like I getmotivated.
That's why I think my, myadrenaline and stuff, whatever
they call it I think I got to apoint where where I forgot what
they call it, like it getsburned out because you were in a
fight for too long.
Yeah.
And I think but I mentioned itto the doctors they don't pay me
no mind because they see myblood works good, they see I'm

(01:49:43):
in shape, so they don't reallypay me no mind, that's all
doctors.
They don't really pay me no mind.
That's all doctors.
So then, after like you knowwhat, forget that I don't trust
anything.
I don't trust the medical, soI'm just going to.
Maybe my body just needsrecovery, maybe it went through
so much stress, it just needsrecovery.
And now I feel like a littlelike I could now start.
I'm starting to like you feelbetter now.

Speaker 3 (01:50:15):
Yeah, like you know what, okay, now I just got to
start doing these things thatthat that you know I'm being
like kind of pushed likeinternally to to at least tell
my story of uh no, bro, Icommend you for coming on the
show.
Dude, I thank you like.
I know it was tough for you todo it, but I told you the story
was gonna be amazing, dude yeahso how do you feel after talking
about it?

Speaker 4 (01:50:28):
You know it feels good, even though some of it
because it brings back, you know, because you still get angry a
lot of the.
That's the thing, like if I wasto do things over, maybe I
wouldn't just hold things in, Iwould deal with them and not
just you know what, and I thinkthat's the thing that kind of
messed me up a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:50:46):
And see, I told you you were here for a reason, man,
because your story is going toactually help individuals that
are experiencing the same thingright now, man.

Speaker 4 (01:50:52):
They're going to have some choices to make yeah, and
just anybody's interested in togo into, like, like the federal
law enforcement stuff.
Like, just know, if you go init is just a job and to make
money and for all that you'regoing to do good, but if you go
in there because of nationalsecurity, because of of the
constitution, the country,you're going to be disappointed

(01:51:14):
and then you're going to bemiserable.
Um, so that's cool.

Speaker 3 (01:51:18):
Well, I want to thank you for coming on the show.
Dude man, we're definitely keepin touch, bro.
Yeah, thank you.
There you guys have it folks.
Man, I told you it was going tobe a banger.
If you like what you saw, makesure you hit that subscribe
button.
Love you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:51:31):
Keep pushing forward unhinged line, hector's legend
engraved living life raw neverbeen tamed, from the hood to the
truth entails pen hector.

Speaker 3 (01:51:46):
Bravo.
Unhinged story never ends,thank you.

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