Prison Games: Female CO Reveals CCWF's Dangerous Reality

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hector Bravo.
Unhinged Chaos is now insession.
Welcome back to our channel.
Warriors, we are still growingAnother banger for you guys
today.
You guys have asked for it.
You guys wanted to hear moreperspective from former female
correctional officers.
It helps the masses and giveyou a different perspective.

(00:23):
So today we have none otherthan valerie, a former
correctional officer from ccwfchowchilla.
So what up, valerie?

Speaker 2 (00:33):
what's going on?

Speaker 1 (00:34):
welcome thank you how was your drive down here it was
long any traffic or no you know, actually it wasn't too bad.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
You know, we drove up yesterday, or should I say we
drove down and it wasn't bad atall.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
It was nice.
Did it rain on your guys' waydown or no?

Speaker 2 (00:49):
No, but I mean as soon as we hit San Diego, the
temperature was just a big, hugedifference.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Cooler.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yes, a lot cooler.
I mean I'm from Central Valleyand, yeah, I was like, oh my
gosh.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
That's why I love it here.
It's freaking expensive, butmaybe that's why there's so many
homeless people here.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
The weather I mean, we have that too in the Central
Valley you know.
So I guess it's everywhere.
But you know I mean it's worthit Living out here the weather,
everybody just seemed all happy.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Chill.
Just like yeah, this is what Iwould love.
Cool, so we'll drive right intoit.
What prompted you?
What made you want to become acorrectional officer?

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well, it goes back to my childhood.
I'm from the Central Valley andmy parents, you know they
divorced and during that divorcethey had, you know, my father.
He had like a little, I wouldsay, alcohol issue.
He was in and out of jail andyou know I remember going to
jail and visiting him, crying,you know, whenever we would

(01:54):
leave, and then eventually heended up getting into a lot of
trouble.
Well, in between that time mymom passed away from breast
cancer, so my dad, he ended upgoing to prison and so I had I
didn't have anybody, you know, Ididn't have my mom, I didn't
have my dad.
So it was a really tough timefor myself and for my siblings

(02:19):
and I just remember likethinking, well, I would like to
help people you know, justremember like thinking well, I
would like to help people.
Right, you know, of course,naively at that time I didn't
understand the whole process.
But yeah, I was just thinking Iwould love to help people how
old were you during this timeframe?
Um, so my mom had passed awaywhen I was 12 well, just before
my 12th birthday and then, um,like just right after that, my

(02:43):
dad went to prison sorry to hearthat, so thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
So a lot of impactful things were happening at a very
young age.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yes, yes, it was.
And, um, I mean, you know you,you're there with your thoughts,
you don't have.
You know your.
How do you say your world justcomes crashing down, the world
that you knew, literally?

Speaker 1 (03:00):
you know what?

Speaker 2 (03:01):
I mean, and then it's just like, well, okay, my dad,
the only parent I have is gone.
You know what I mean.
And then it's just like, well,okay, my dad, the only parent I
have is gone.
And I went to go visit him.
He was actually at Jamestown.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Okay, was that up north on Jamestown.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, yeah, it is up north and they have the, I think
, the fire camp there.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah.
So I want to say he did about ayear and then he came out and
you know he was ready to go.
I mean, luckily he's a welder,professional welder.
They gave him his job back,thank God, and so he did his
best to raise the four of us.
There's four of us.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah.
And I mean he did an awesomejob, were you like?

Speaker 2 (03:42):
the oldest, the middle, the youngest?
Yeah, I'm the second toyoungest.
Were you like the oldest, themiddle, the youngest?
Yeah, I'm the second toyoungest.
And then you know, I think,from losing my mom and just
everything.
You know, because wheneverything happened I think I
was suppressed, my feelings, butthen, as I went into
teenagehood is when I startedgetting into a lot of trouble.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
You know, but that's normal, though that's common to
be.
Well, I mean the.
The human brain does not stopdeveloping until the age of 26.
Yes, so you're, you'regathering, you're learning.
True, I wouldn't necessarilysay you were suppressing.
It's like you're trying tofigure out what is going on yeah
, that is true, that is verytrue.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Um, you know, I I was becoming a little rebellious
because my dad, you know I meanhe went prison, so he knows how
the world is.
You know what I?

Speaker 1 (04:27):
mean yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
And he tried to protect me and keep me home and
you know, don't let me goanywhere, stuff like that.
So I started like rebelling andI started getting into, you
know, a lot of trouble.
I got expelled from school, youknow, things like that.
And to the point to where itwas, I ended up running away,
you know.
And then, um, then, finally,you know, I got into my senses.

(04:51):
I was like this is not the lifeI want, you know yeah, I'm like
13 years old, thinking like Iknow it all, and I was like, no,
this is not the life I want, soI go back home you ran away?

Speaker 1 (05:00):
at what age?

Speaker 2 (05:01):
yeah, I was 13 years old.
That's very young yeah, youknow, I mean, I was just, you
know, just being rebelliousright, the only way I could
right right so, um, yeah, sothen, um, I, you know I went, I
went back home and you know Italked to my dad, you know I
apologized and he was, you know,happy to see me home yeah, you

(05:21):
know, I bet yeah.
Yeah, I bet yeah, and we madeplans.
I was like Dad.
I'm sorry, you know we madeplans Because my dad, he was
always about us.
You know what I mean Single dad, you know, working long hours
and it was all about us.
So he never took care ofhimself, you know.
So he'd have like holes in hissocks and stuff like that and

(05:41):
I'm like, dad, let's go shopping, let's, let's go take care of
you, dad.
And he's like, okay, cool.
And the next day he was goneand I and he he passed away from
alcohol poisoning Cause youknow he had a really what do you

(06:02):
call it?
I don't want to call him analcoholic, but you know he, he
had to drink every day, every hepoured, you know, alcohol in
his cup of coffee and stuff likethat.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
I'm very familiar with alcoholism.
I myself am an alcoholic.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
But I'm curious to know why you wouldn't call him
an alcoholic from yourperspective.
I've never been in thatpredicament to where um to say
that, um, I've been, like youknow, where I've used any type
of alcohol, maybe a little bitof alcohol, but any type of
substance.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
And I just feel like it's kind of like a rude word or
something like that.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
But I don't think it is a rude word.
Yeah, yeah, but I hear whatyou're saying.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, because I've.
I've told that to people andthey're like, well, you know
that's not a correct word andI'm like I don't know what to
say.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
You got to call it something.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
No, but I hear that no you're right, you know, and
it's like that's my dad and um.
But that day I made a promiseto my dad.
I said, dad, I will do good andI will.
I will do better, you know.
And that's what I did.
And so, you know, when I wentinto high school, I was like you
know, that's what I want to do.
I want to be a correctionalofficer and help, you know, help

(07:19):
people.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
Did you know other correctional officers or
anything of the prison system?

Speaker 2 (07:23):
well, I have um.
I had some family um.
I have an uncle that um.
I believe he just recentlyretired.
That was a correctional officer, but I never saw him.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
He was never home but I'm saying like, where did you
get the idea for correctionalofficer with it from visiting in
jail?

Speaker 2 (07:41):
yeah, just because I just went back to the part of
you know remembering when he wasin prison.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
And thinking like well, I want to help.
You know families, you know inmy head, you know as a child.
You know, I'm just thinkingwell, I would like to be a
correctional officer and helpfamilies reunite, get back
together, you know.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
That was in my head, naively, having not any idea, I
was just thinking that was youknow.
So at what point in time didyou actually apply?
I actually, you know Igraduated high school and then I
went to.
You know I got married rightafter high school.

(08:25):
I went to, you know, I gotmarried right after high school
and my husband at the time hewas not okay with me being a
correctional officer Just forthe fact of the danger of it.
You know, like just you know.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Watching the movies, watching the movies you know
getting raped possibly.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Getting, you know, stabbed, all this stuff, and I
was like you know what You'reright, let me think about it.
You know what I mean, and outof respect for him, you know,
because you know you're he's myhusband.
So I decided to go to collegeand I was like I'm going to be a
teacher, you know, I want tohelp.
And um, I actually did work ata school as a teacher's aid.

(08:59):
And um, I was just like that'snot for me.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
So this whole time were you still remaining in the
same location, CentralCalifornia?
Yeah, yes, Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
and then, right before I graduated, I saw one of
the students wearing a lanyardwith her California state ID
hanging and I was like, hmm, letme just me just ask you know
because I still had that.
You know that itch to be acorrectional officer, but you

(09:30):
know, and so anyways I asked herand she was um, a ot at for the
substance abuse program thereat ccwf, and she's like you know
, I could give you theinformation if you want to be a
counselor and stuff like that.
And I was like, hey, why not?
She goes, yeah, they're hiring.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
She was just a student.
She wasn't a recruiter.
No.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
She was a student.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
She was a student of the class.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, she was trying to, you know, move up in her
career.
And so I said, hey, what do Ihave to lose?
You know, I graduated and Icalled and they were like, yeah,

(10:11):
fax me your resume.
And, sure enough, not too longafter I became a substance abuse
counselor there at CCWF.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, Wow, this is good.
This is very good.
It almost seemed like you weredestined to be a CO, exactly
Right.
Yeah, wow, this is good.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
This is very good, it almost seemed like you were
destined to be a CO.
Exactly right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
So, substance abuse counselor, what do you get?
You get a certificate, diploma.
What do you get?

Speaker 2 (10:32):
No, Well, they wanted people.
They preferred people that hada degree.
I had my AS degree.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
But yeah, I believe it was an AS degree or higher.
I don't remember too much, butI do want to say it was for sure
an AS degree because that'swhat I had.
So but they, I want to say theystarted everybody off as entry
level or I don't remember if itwas, depending on your education
.
Anyhow, I was there for about ayear and I was not relating to

(11:05):
the inmates because I didn'thave a substance abuse problem
hold on.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
You were not relating to the inmates solely because
you didn't have a substanceabuse problem yeah, so it,
because it's you know, I was asubstance abuse counselor right,
but I mean, like, what type ofwas conflict arising?
Was miscommunication arising?

Speaker 2 (11:27):
um, it was so, like.
So, for example, they wouldgive us a like, um, kind of like
a lesson plan or someobjectives and we would have to,
you know, do a group and and Iwould have to talk about, you
know, like, let's say,alcoholism and the effects of
alcoholism, and you know, ofcourse, when you're not drinking

(11:49):
right or any addiction that youhave, when you stop that, you
start having all thesewithdrawals right, and I would
not have any clue what that evenmeant.
I was like I don't knowanything about withdrawals or I
don't know the struggles of like, why, I mean, why not just stop
drinking?
Like, if you want to stopdrinking, why not just stop?
Like?
I didn't understand thatconcept.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Do you understand it now?

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Oh, yes, I understand it now.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
But at the time I felt like and you know the
inmates, they were very umunderstanding with me.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
They were.
They were like oh, yeah, theywere, yeah, they were patient,
they were patient.
Well, that's a good thing yes,and they had mentors.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
So a lot of the the groups, the inmate mentors would
kind of run, and so I wouldkind of just kind of, you know,
guide them or facilitate.
You know the groups, butsometimes they wanted me to run
it and I would like.
I said I was disconnected.
Like I said I was disconnectedand I just felt like for me I
just didn't feel right,continuing in a position that I

(12:49):
didn't understand or even youknow, I couldn't relate.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
But did you learn anything in your studies that
you could pass on to them?

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, I mean, yes, I mean don't get me wrong there
was things that I was able tohelp.
And there were things I wasable to relate to, like life
situations.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Like you know, my I didn't tell them yes exactly
Stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
I was able to relate and I was able to talk to him
about that, um, and it was cool.
It was a very awesomeexperience, awesome people, um,
but, like I said, I just youknow, you gotta know when to be
like hey, I need to walk away,this is not working out.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
How long was that?
How long did you do that for?

Speaker 2 (13:27):
I want to say about a year.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
You gave it a good run.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah, I did Well no, but I stayed there.
There was that woman that I wastelling you, the student.
She was leaving to anotherposition, so her position was
going to become available.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
The OT position yeah position.
So her position was going tobecome available.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
So I asked yeah, the ot position.
So I asked hey, what can Iapply for?
That they're like oh yeah, youknow, and sure enough, because
you had to type fast and allthat yeah and I knew how to do
that, so I was like yeah, soyeah, they put me in that
position, thankfully and um whoare you working for or under
like a captain, or it wasstrictly um?
no, it was for the substanceabuse program.
Yeah, it was for, because itwas a company.

(14:08):
I can now I can't even rememberthe name of the company, but
they were contracted, you know,with the state but everything
was there at the prison and so,um and then and the funny thing,
how I ended up becoming anofficer was, there was so we
would have to go to the housingunits and do like a roll call

(14:30):
and do like you know all thisstuff and but the officers, you
know, they would have to likeescort us sometimes or whatever.
Well, the S&E, there he was,like look, this is why you need
to become a correctional officer, and he showed me his check.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
It's like a lot of money, right, and I'm just like
was his check in comparison toyour check at a time a big
difference, oh huge hugedifference.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
I think that's one of the motivating factors that
people become oh yeah, ceos youknow, because I was just like,
and you know, the funny thing isis that when I became the
counselor, I wasn't aware that Iwas gonna be inside the actual
prison with the inmates walkingamongst them.
I just had this idea that theywere going to bring them to, you

(15:11):
know, to this building, youknow, and so.
But you know, after workingwith them and you know the
inmates, they were not reallythat violent at that time either
, so it wasn't a big issue likewhere, as far as I was like,
well, it's actually kind of safehere, you know, in a sense how
long were you in that otposition for?

Speaker 1 (15:32):
um, I want to say about like eight months, about
there so so approximately youhad two years of experience
working as a free staff.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Prior to become a correction officer.
Yes, so good.
I'll like piggyback off of that.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
You were not necessarily ordering inmates to
do anything in your previous twopositions, were you?

Speaker 2 (16:01):
A little bit yes.
Were you a little bit yes?
Um, because they had to at thattime.
You know they were.
They were mandate.
The inmates were mandated to gointo the substance abuse program
but a lot of it was more likevoluntary, because of you know,
like, as a condition to parolestuff like that, and so they had
to meet certain criteria, theyhad to behave a certain way.

(16:24):
You know like they couldn't.
You know like, like, forexample, if they wanted to take
a day, you know we would go overthere and we'd talk to them and
and then let them know, hey, ifyou don't show up, you know
whatever, then this is, we'regoing to write you up.
Stuff like that OK but no, we'renot in the capacity as an

(16:44):
officer, as a CO?

Speaker 1 (16:45):
yes, so I want you to explain to me about the type of
academy that you attended,because you mentioned it was
something like college courses.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yes, so you know, working there as a free staff, I
got to know, you know, some ofthe Bigwigs yeah free staff.
I got to know, you know, some ofthe big wigs, yeah, and so
particular there was.
Uh, at that time there was aIST um sergeant and he had
mentioned to me, hey, you know,we're going to be having this
pilot program.
You know, just give you a headsup and they're looking in

(17:18):
particular for those who havegraduated from college and stuff
like that.
And I was like, oh cool, he'slike, yeah, you should apply.
So, you know, I applied andeventually I got, you know,
selected and everything wasabout on your own time.
There was, you know, theydidn't pay us, that's crazy.
Yeah, and we, and you know Ilived about I want to say about

(17:42):
45 minutes, 30 to 45 minutes,depending on traffic away from
the college.
Everything was going to happenat the college, at the city
president fresno city college,that's wild yeah and um, and so
it was a big commitment becauseI had an eight to five job and
then so class started at six,you know so I had pm.

(18:05):
Yes, that's a long day and thenit ended at 10, you know, five
days a week, and so, you know,and at the time, um, you know, I
was like well, I think this ismy, my way in, you know yeah and
um, you know, I talked to my,my, um, my husband at the time,
and he was, he was cool with it.

(18:25):
You know, he was like becausethey said, more than likely
because they need females at theCCWF that I would end up there.
So I was like, cool, you knowdone.
So, yeah, I did, 13 weeks inand I had failed my psyche Val.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
So you did 13 weeks of Monday through Friday 6 pm to
10 pm after working yourregular day.
Yes, Were you exhausted?

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yes, I was.
I'm not going to say no,because I was.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Because you know, especially when we had you know
PT and at that time I was, youknow, a gym junkie, if you will.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Like.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
I was, you know, always exercising running.
That was my thing running.
So I was, you know, pretty fit,but still it gets exhausting.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Oh, hell yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Working, driving over there, you know, and then
driving failed that that psychevalve and um come to find out
that that psychologist had aprejudice against females going

(19:33):
into the department.
I don't know if it wasnecessarily females being
officers or exactly what.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Was he a male psychologist?

Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah, he was a male psychologist Was he old and
white.
I was just a wild guess you areright, and um and yeah, so,
sure enough, I had to, you know,appeal it.
And then I hire my ownpsychologist and I got
re-evaluated and that was youknow.
That was when they told me hey,you know.
By the way, you know, this iswhat's going on yeah so, uh,

(20:03):
just go ahead and go to do acouple tests, you know, because
I, you know, over a year youhave to retest, like after a
year, you know yeah so I had toretest and I passed everything
and sure enough, they're likewhere do you want to go?
What academy you want to go to?
You know all this stuff and Iwas like what academy?
Because at that time there wasstockton and then there was Galt

(20:25):
.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, did you get your pick?
Yeah, what did you pick?

Speaker 2 (20:28):
I picked Galt.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Why.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Because I was not going to sleep in the, because
they told me they're like hey,just so you know.
Because I didn't evenunderstand.
I was like what is Stockton?
And they're like well, you'llbe living in the cells like
inmates.
And I was like, oh no, yeah, Iwent to stockton but I was not

(20:53):
given a choice.
Oh no way, yeah, yeah.
Um, I felt like a queen.
I was like, really, I gottapick, I gotta, yeah, pick a
prison.
Because you know, at that timethey didn't give you choices.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
They were like hey, pelican bay, like yes or no, you
know, and that was it so yourequested ccwf and you got it
requested and then you went togalt and I went to galt, ccwf
and you got it.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, I requested CCWF and then you went to GALT
and I went to GALT.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
And how long were you in GALT for?

Speaker 2 (21:08):
At 16 weeks.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
That's confusing to me as why you would have to do
13 weeks prior to doing a16-week academy.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Well, they didn't recognize.
And, honestly, this is just methinking that, Because when I
went to Galt, right, it wastotally different.
Curriculum, Curriculum.
Yes, you know it was similarbut it was different, you know.
And also the at the college itwas a lot of teachers,

(21:37):
professors, that were teachingus, you know, like people that
were in the law enforcementfield.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, but not too many of them.
That were from corrections.
We did have a couple.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Knuckle draggers.
Well, they're usually likesheriffs or like police.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
Doing overtime out there, you know a little side
money.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
And don't get me wrong, I mean very knowledgeable
.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
But even at the academy the academy it's not
anything that they said.
I mean, I'm sorry, but you justthrow it out the window as soon
as you start, because you know,it's just a whole different
story when you go you began,what year galt?
In um april of 07 april of 07.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Um, the sergeants that you remember, do you
remember if they had a lot oftime in, mixed a little bit of
time in and were they trying toact like drill sergeants?

Speaker 2 (22:29):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know what's crazy?
I actually have a little PTSDfrom one of the sergeants
because of my when I waslearning how to shoot the mini
or just you know, weapon, orwhat was it?
The revolver?
So the mini and the revolver atthat time and the instructor man

(22:52):
he had it out for me, he was, Imean, he was calling me by my
first name and it was just weirdLike and and honestly it's kind
of.
You know, if you think about itwas a good thing because it
made me stronger yeah gave mepressure, put me under pressure,
you know stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
But was that your first introduction to firearms?
Yeah well, that's, that's,that's awesome.
Yeah, what?
What advice do you have forfemale listeners that are brand
new and considering a job incorrections and are kind of
maybe fearing the firearmportion?

Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, I highly recommend that you go to your
nearest range for sure and getfamiliar with weapons.
For me it wasn't necessarilythe the weapon itself, I think
it was just more of thequalifying, you know, like all
the pressure that they put youit is true.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Even for a man, that's just stressful as hell.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Even for a fucking sir operator, that's just
stressful oh yeah, you know, andand then on top of that I was
not even familiar with the gun Imean.
So here I got all this pressure, you know, and I do recommend,
but honestly, I recommendanybody that's great advice.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
that's great advice.
That's great advice, yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
You have to go and go to the nurse range and practice
.
It's just and honestly.
My husband and I, we still go.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Absolutely A hundred percent.
It's a perishable skill, so yougot to stay on top of it.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yes, so, yeah, you know.
So after my academy, I mean Ihad a good time.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
No, because I want to get to know more about you and
how your experience was.
How was the chemical agentsportion for you?

Speaker 2 (24:31):
Oh man, yeah, that one killed me.
So that one, you know.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
What was worse for you?
The pepper spray and theeyeballs, or the gas?

Speaker 2 (24:39):
No, that wasn't bad at all in comparison to the CS,
because you know they put us allin like a shed and they're like
all right, you know, prettymuch like lock arms.
And they're like okay, like Ibetter not hear any crying, like
whatever.
And yeah, boom, they blasted it.

(25:00):
And they're like okay, you haveto last 30 seconds.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
How would you describe the effects of CS gas?

Speaker 2 (25:08):
I honestly, I felt like I was going to die.
I felt like I was going to die.
I mean, I know that sounds likedramatic.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
No, that's spot on, that's spot on.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, because, like, I couldn't breathe, I couldn't
see.
You know what I mean?
I couldn't hear because I wasjust all.
Well, it induces panic.
That's one of the.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
That's exactly what happened, you know.
But I will say I didn't throwup, you did it.
No, I didn't throw up.
What about like snot runningdown?

Speaker 2 (25:35):
yeah, yeah, that was just yeah that was just non-stop
.
It was crazy, but and I felt, Ifelt like I got punched in the
stomach, like you know I justfelt like the breath was just
taking, you know.
But yeah, no, there was peoplethrowing up and yeah, it was a
horrible experience.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Oh yeah.
So then you get your badge.
What was that moment like,knowing all the hard work you
put in, knowing you visited yourfather in jail.
What feelings and emotions wereyou getting when you um
graduation?
You know?

Speaker 2 (26:07):
I, you know my siblings were there and you know
my closest family was there,and it was a an emotional
feeling.
It's just thinking about itright now makes me emotional,
because I was like dad, I did it.
You know, and so, and I wish hewould have been able to be there
he was sympathy you're right,but I was trying not to cry, of

(26:28):
course, um, but yeah, it was anemotional but very proud moment
for me.
You know that I did it and so,and after that, I was like, okay
, now let's, because you knowyou graduate on friday now it's
game time.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, it's game time, you know you graduate on friday
.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Now it's game time.
Yeah, it's game time, you know,you graduate on friday and then
now monday business you alreadyhad your.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
What did you sport?
The jumpsuit?
Or um two-piece like becausethey had the jumpsuit was very
popular back in the day yeah,you're right, I did have my
jumpsuit um you had a brand newduty belt.
You're brand new.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
You're ready to yes, because I had.
So they made us graduate inclass A's, right?
So I was, I think, my first dayI wore my class A's.
They're like, hey, wear yourclass A's.
And then we had orientation.
So that was pretty cool because, you know, the union came in
and they were like, hey, this iswhat's up, you know, this is
what you got to do, and theyshowed us everything.

(27:24):
You know, where the mostimportant place is still is, I'm
sure which is personnelassignments.
Right, Because that's what?
Well for us, that's where weput in our vacation.
That's where we put in ourholiday, because that's really
all that matters, right.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
And, of course, the money.
So what, in hindsight, lookingback with all your experience
that you did and how thedepartment had changed over the
years, what would you say thefocus of training cadets was
like safety and security?
Was it more focused onrehabilitation of inmates?

Speaker 2 (27:58):
no, you mean when I was going, when you went
initially went through.
Yeah, no, um the focus is allabout safety and security, all
about, you know, hey, and thisis they.
They drilled this into my headand to all of our head.
Hey, just work as though you'regetting.
You're on camera, you knowfacts and and you know be

(28:19):
professional.
Professionalism was anotherthing.
Integrity, you know um being agood relief.
They would feel that they'relike, hey, you sign up for
overtime.
You know you better take itlike and and just know you're
not going home.
You know when you go to workyou're not going to go home, say
bye to the holidays and allthat absolutely break it down a
little bit further when theymean by like hey, work like if

(28:40):
you're on camera yeah.
So, um, basically they said, hey, you know you and it happens,
you know people that that saythat right now, if you're at a
prison and there are no camerasthere.
So you think you know because?

Speaker 1 (28:56):
no, because the inmates are fucking recording
you from their cell.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
They're exactly, but at that time yeah you had a lot
of you know like isu plantingcameras because there's so much
craziness going on in theprisons that they.
You don't know if you're beingwatched right and so yeah, and
as far as so, you had to act asthough you're working on camera.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Basically, don't beat the shit out of anyone, don't
fucking bat, don't run yourmouth.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, right, and just be professional, do your job
you know, be as though you justthat's it.
Follow the rules, follow thelaws, follow policy, you know,
do what you're supposed to do.
Do the right thing.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
It almost seems like a simple Common sense, you know.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
But we're surprised.
Yeah, it's common sense, right,you know going to work, and
then you learn that that's nothow it's operated.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
So you get there.
What are some of your firstassignments?
What are some things that yousee now.
Do you recognize any formerinmates from being?

Speaker 2 (29:54):
OT.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, there's a few of them that recognize me.
Hey guys, consider becoming apatron, where you will get first
exclusive dibs on the videobefore it airs to the public and
you'll get to ask the guestspecial questions that you have
in mind.
So that's also another way tosupport the channel.
Thank you, guys, appreciate allof you.
Keep pushing forward.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
Make sure you hit that link in the description
below, not right off the bat,you know like over you know some
time, because you know we haddifferent yards in the yard that
I was working on.
You know that I didn't really.
Can you break down the layoutfor us, like because I have no

(30:35):
idea what ccwf looks like?
Yeah, it's um, just think of itas a big like I guess like a
circle, right?

Speaker 1 (30:37):
so then?

Speaker 2 (30:37):
a circle, yeah, like here, here's this and then, and
it's divided, you know know,into four yards, right?

Speaker 1 (30:44):
So like four slices of the pie.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yeah Well, like I know it's kind of hard to say so
, we have four different yards.
Right, we have a yard which isour reception.
So, right, when you walk in,you have one facility which is a
yard.
Then you keep walking.
Then you have another yard,which is Bravo.
Then you continue, then Charlie, and then Delta, and then you
go on the other side.

(31:07):
Then you have like the centralservices, like the main yard.
That's where the gym is at,that's where you know control
the main yard yeah, the mainyard is where.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
That's where you have your library do each yard have
its own recreational yard?

Speaker 2 (31:22):
they have a yard but it's not like the main yard and
and so like.
On every yard has like a little.
I don't even know if it's grass.
Before I left it was like alldried out, but it's like a big
old you know.
Uh, lawn area, you knowhumongous, and um, they did have
.
I think they had a volleyballcourt or they were allowing it.

(31:45):
They had a little basketballcourt.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Do all inmates from every yard go to one
recreational yard?

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Oh, no way.
No, no, no, no Okay.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
No, every yard has their own yard and they go out
to that yard.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
However, I just heard recently they are allowing and
I think it's.
I don't know if it's mixed, ifthey're mixing it, but when I
first started it was mixed.
Reception didn't go out to themain yard.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Right.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
But Bravo Charlie doubts it.
They all, all these inmates,went to this main yard and it
was wild, it was really wild.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Oh well, back then was the overcrowding problem.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
Because at all the other prisons we had bunk beds
on the day room, we had gymsthat were full was your prison
going through the same thing.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Oh yeah, it was overcrowded to the max what was
that like?
um, it was.
It was like it was mixed, youknow, so you had it.
It was crazy because you know,I mean you have it like at the
men's also, where you have yourbullies, if you will, at the
women's.
It's like more like yourbullies or shot callers or

(32:51):
whatever you want to call it,and you know they're more about
like, hey, clean your room, theygive all the inmates chores.
You know, like hey, and you'llsee when you go into their cell
they have like chores that allthe inmates have to do.
And so the inmates that don'twant to keep up with that or

(33:15):
don't want to be bossed aroundor bullied or whatever, they
will go to the day room.
Or they wanted to bunk in theday room because they were
afraid or they didn't want todeal with that, or they would go
to the gym.
That was the popular place,like the safe place.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
These shot caller type women bullies did they have
like a physical description?
Did they all kind of look thesame or they varied?

Speaker 2 (33:31):
No, they varied.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
I'm imagining like short haircut, kind of stuck
stuffy.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah, most of them yes, but no, not necessarily.
No, not necessarily.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
It didn't make, it didn't.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
No, it didn't matter, him mad, it didn't no whoever
was the alpha female dominatedyeah and a lot of it had to do
with, like you know.
Like, let's say, you know oneof the rooms would have, um, you
know, all of their people inthere.
So then the outsiders that wereliving in there, of course they
would, they would get bullied,you know okay, I asked you to
give us a description of likeall the yards, which you did.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Now, what does a unit look like?

Speaker 2 (34:05):
So the unit looks like, it's like a big X.
So you have, you know, likethis, you know.
So, all down, each is a wingand so like it's when you go
down a hallway right, just likethis you have one side of dorms
and their rooms.
They look like the best way Icould describe it is like hotel

(34:26):
rooms.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
They have Hotel rooms and not cell rooms.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah, they're dorms.
Yeah, they have a door you goin and they have like two sinks
and then they have Maybe itlooks like college dorm or
something yeah Kind of like thatyeah.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
And then they have their own shower, and then they
have their own toilet.
How many females per room?

Speaker 2 (34:46):
At that time it was eight inmates.
Should I call?

Speaker 1 (34:48):
it?
Do you guys call it a room, acell?
What do you guys call it?

Speaker 2 (34:51):
We would normally call them rooms, rooms like, go
to room, whatever, no, way.
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's prettymuch.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
And the door.
What does the door look like?
Is it like a prison door?

Speaker 2 (35:11):
yeah, I mean it's just a heavy duty door and then
with a big old window and theyhave their own key.
No, no, no, no, you guys have a, what a folder.
Adams key, um, no, so that'slike a little tiny key, and then
you could we call it key thewing and there's like a, um,
like a thing, you know, uh, whatdo you call it?
So you could put the key Ican't even think right now and
then it just opens up all therooms.
All of them, all the doors, yes,and then they only have like 30
seconds and then it'll lock up.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Cool.
So eight females per room.
And you were saying that.
If what?
Were you saying that if onegirl has her whole crew there,
yes.
There's an outsider.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yeah, if you have an outsider in the room, of course
they're going to be, you know,bullied, or they'll you know
bully them until they get, ohhell no.
Say, hey, like the inmates willlegit be like, hey, this one
got to go, you need a mover.
And it's like what, wait, howabout this?
How about I freaking move allof you guys and keep her in

(36:03):
there?
How, how about I freaking moveall of you guys and keep her in
there.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
How about that?
So how many correctionalofficers?
What is the ratio?
Where are they located?

Speaker 2 (36:10):
So the officers are right in the center.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Of the X.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Of the X.
Yes, and it's like a.
They would call it a fishbowl,because that's kind of what it
looks like, and it's just glassall around.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Elevated or not elevated?

Speaker 2 (36:25):
No, it's not elevated , no.
And then there's a controlpanel where we could also
control, but they didn't want usto, so we could.
From that control panel, wecould open the doors also are
you in a locked?

Speaker 1 (36:36):
are you a lock in a lock secured?

Speaker 2 (36:38):
environment.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
It's locked why is that?
I'm having a hard timeunderstanding?
Because, like on a level fourgp, you're on a podium yeah
nothing around you with inmates,but this seems a little bit
more secure for the cops it is,it is and it's actually nice and
that's what I do like about it.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
And then I, when I seen, when I was doing my
cossets, I did see that.
Yeah, it was podiums or it waslike that in atzig, but the
inmates in there are not freelywalking.
So correct, um, but there isone building that iss or it was
like that in atzig but theinmates in there are not freely
walking.
So correct um, but there is onebuilding that is like that.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
It's like, I believe it's a 180 design and they have
a podium also so this perfectlayout that you just gave of us,
is this a type of unit whererecently, the, the girls, went
off all crazy and did theultimate riot?

Speaker 2 (37:21):
yeah, like that's the setup it was yeah, yep well
that's so see if, if you're so,a building can hold about 256
inmates oh my god, yes, yeah andand recently, like right before
I left, they had um, uh, I wantto say they had um what do you

(37:44):
call it where they didn't allowlike they.
So, basically, some bunks werelike as though they didn't exist
, so inmates couldn't live inthere.
So you know, like I think theywould like do, like six inmates
were allowed to live in there orwhatever, just because they
want to minimize the amount ofinmates living in a room.

(38:06):
You know so, but when I firststarted it wasn't like that.
So if we had a broken, we wouldget broken windows, you know,
because they would fight and itwould be like shoot.
How are we going to move theseinmates out?

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Are those windows, the thick windows?
Yeah, so they would just crackthem right.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, they would crack them or completely break
they would.
Yeah, they weren't like I mean.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
They weren't like a regular house window.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
No.
Okay, okay, no, no, no no, yeah, they were pretty thick, but
yeah, they were Now you're a cop, you're wearing your uniform,
you're doing, doing okay.
So you mentioned the cops inthe little control area is some
of your duties that you got towalk around and look around,
yeah, so, um, you woulddefinitely have to do your
security checks okay that's likevery important, you know, and I

(38:55):
would do like.
I would do sometimes more like,depending on the building that I
worked in like.
If you worked in like wherethat riot popped off, those are
the kind of buildings that younever want to miss your security
A hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, can you advise newercorrectional officers the
importance of conductingsecurity checks?

Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yeah, it's one of your main jobs, you know it's.
I mean no matter where you workat, you know whether you're
working on the yard, whetheryou're working in a building or
wherever.
It's very utmost importantthing, because that's when
things are going on.
And me personally, what I woulddo is I would do a security
check and then I would doanother one Smart, you know what

(39:34):
I mean and I would hold my keys.
But this is when I firststarted.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah, you would hold your keys.
I would hold my keys, yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
I was like the inmates gave me a little
nickname.
They would call me, oh MissI'm-a-get-cha.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
Miss I'm-a-get-cha.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, that's what they would call me because I'm
like oh no, you ain't not on mywatch, you know.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Because that's when they're doing the drugs, that's
when they're beating somebody upor that's when they're.
You know a lot of the femaleswould you know they'd have
sexual relationships and andyeah, and so if they knew that
you know and, and they them too,they would like to um board up
yeah, but they would you know,because it was bunks, so they

(40:12):
would put their blankets andcover up yeah and um, so you
can't see them.
So you would have to go overthere and, hey, take your your
blankets down.
Take that down at tent up.
That's what they would call it.
They would tent up, okay yeahand so, but that's that's what
they would call it.
They would tent up Okay, yeahand so, but that's how you
eliminate If the inmates knowthat you're doing your security
checks consistently.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
On point you're going to eliminate and deter a whole
lot of stuff, 100%.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, this is being proactive.
Yeah, you're being proactive,and sometimes you I mean I'm not
saying that there's not goingto be a time where you're the
inmates are going to fight, youknow not.
But see, and this is what I'mso like, one time, because I,
you know, I was working on theyard and after we do a release,

(40:59):
you know I would go to everybuilding and I would help the
officer release for Chow, andthen I would go hey, let me do a
security check.
You know you do all this otherstuff and I'll help you with a
security check, just to makesure there is nothing going on
or make sure all the doors arelocked and secure, Because what
the inmates would like to do isthey would like to put their ID
or something right there.

(41:25):
So that way the door could stayunlocked, and so I would go
check the doors.
Yeah, and sure enough, you know, and this is why you have to be
consistent.
But, um, sure enough, there'stwo inmates fighting, you know,
because they're thinking right,oh, this is, this is a good time
, nobody's here, nobody's gonnacatch it, and sure enough, yeah,
they're fighting, and that'swhen they do it During those
mass releases.
That's when things happen.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
I mean, you got to think like a criminal.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Yeah, exactly, you know, and I mean you got to kind
of appreciate it that they'renot doing it in front of you.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
But at the same time, our job is to maintain safety
and security.
That's our main job.
I don't know why, but I have astrong hunch that this, like
newer generation right is, isnot doing the little things like
checking the doors, and I can'treally blame them for the
current circumstance andsituation and climate that
they're in you know, before Ileft, um, I was noticing and and
I'm going to be honest, I didit too.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
I would get to my point where I mean get into my
days where I would have like alazy day.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
Right.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
You know, but not a constant, like you know if I'm
tired or whatever you know.
But before I left, you know Iwas injured, so you know I was
like trying to do as minimal aspossible.
Right right you know I was liketrying to do as minimal as
possible but you were not goingto ever catch me not doing you
know, making sure that you knowdo my safety and security checks
, or make sure that you know andnot because you love inmates,

(42:50):
because you love your paycheckand you love your career.
Yeah, you want to secure thatshit and, yes, that, and not
only that, but everybody relieson you to maintain that safety.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Even the supervisors appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yeah, I mean, that's just our job and I think I feel
like people just forget thatthat's our main job.
And it's like there's thisculture of laziness and it's got
to the point to where I don'tknow if you ever heard about
this where they talk about um,where officers are are now um,

(43:26):
like refusing to do holdoverscorrect so they call it motor,
and so, in other words, theycall mandatory.
Um, I forgot what it's likeholdover.
It's basically if the sergeantcalls you and says hey, I'm
holding you over, and then yousay a motor, so you're refusing
your holdover, your mandatoryovertime, basically.

(43:49):
And it's like, okay, well,bring a doctor's note.
That's what the sergeant tellsthem, and it's like wait what is
motor?

Speaker 1 (43:55):
a pay code.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yeah, I think it's like mandatory overtime refusal
or something like that doctor'sorder or something like that so
it's like wow, they're just wow.
That's pretty bold that is boldand it's like think about it
when we first started like canyou imagine saying now I refuse
to work over or I refuse to tobe held, like the culture that

(44:16):
we had at that time when wefirst started?
Right that that's like unheardof.
Because why Like?

Speaker 1 (44:23):
that's embarrassing.
I will say this I never refusedto order over.
I did, however, call in sickthe following day after I was
held over.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
Oh yeah, I mean yeah, but that's the right thing to
do.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Just take the hit.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah, you take your hit or like let's say, you know
whatever something going on orwhatever.
I would wait till everything'ssaid and done After chow.
Hey, I'm going home sick.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yeah, that's an option.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Yeah, but to flat out refuse.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
But just to flat out is wild.
And this didn't just startrecently, it's been since
2020-ish.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah, I mean, and then like you, yeah, I don't
know.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
So the way you view things now is do you believe it
was a fuck man?
Do you believe it was a perfectstorm?
A new generation of cops, a newagenda with the department, a
new breed of inmates.
Do you believe like the change?

Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean.
Well, I I mean I don't know ifyou're okay to talk about the
california model right now oh100 but see, like when we first
started you know, when I firststarted we had control of the
inmates.
you know we had and I'm notsaying a hundred percent, but
the inmates respected the law.

(45:39):
You know they respected you.
Hey, you did your job, you didwhat was supposed to be done.
They had to trust that.
They knew that you were goingto do your job and for the most
part they listened.
You know what I mean yeah.
There was fights, there wasdrinking, there was this and
that drugs, whatever.
But then you fast forward tolike, like the pandemic, and I
would like to talk about thattoo but, that's going off track.

(46:01):
But then you, you know, welocked all the inmates down,
right, we locked them down umwhat was a pandemic at ccwf like
?
I was out of control were thewomen complaining oh yeah, but
not like you would think.
You know, what they worriedabout more than anything was
their property.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Why, and?

Speaker 2 (46:21):
that was some bull crap.
So what, our wonderfuladministration there at CCWF,
what they decided to do andmaybe it wasn't even them, I'm
not sure where it came from, buttheir great idea was to hey,
let's go ahead, these inmateshave COVID.
They have the COVID, so let'sgo ahead and take them all out.
They have the COVID, so let'sgo ahead and take them all out

(46:42):
and put them in the gym wherethey're not even, you know,
isolated.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Yeah, it was the administration.
Same shit happened at Donovan.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yeah.
So now and then you got themdoing it in the middle of the
night, where you have, like youknow, a skeleton crew, as it is
is and you're freaking,uprooting all these inmates at,
you know one in the morning andsaying, hey, don't even worry
about it, leave your propertythere.
You're going to come backbecause we're just quarantining

(47:12):
you.
We're going to put you in thegym, don't worry, you're going
to come back.
And you know what ends uphappening.
They don't send them back totheir rooms correct so now you
have all this property that's,and and you know what the crazy
thing is too they end up puttingother inmates in their rooms
and those rooms with the otherinmates property still in those

(47:32):
rooms oh my god, can you imaginewhat kind of mess, that is yeah
, I just want to um let theadministration know you know
that was was horrible, horribleplan.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Well, no planning at all.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
No planning at all.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
But the position that they put the correctional
officers in was freakingdisastrous.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
It was very disastrous.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
Pulling inmates, making us move, inmates in the
middle of the night leavingtheir property, putting other
inmates in there with otherpeople's property was a freaking
disaster, a nightmare andincompetence.
Sorry, I just had to get off mychest.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right, that's exactly
what it was.
You know there was no.
And then you know, you got toremember.
You know, here we have nobodyknows what's going on with this
virus.
You know so everybody'sfreaking out.
You know so you're at home,Like there are.
Even there's rumors that theywere saying hey, you know, you
guys might not even go home, youmight have to quarantine at the

(48:24):
prison.
And I was like what you know,and I mean my.
My husband works there.
You know, what I mean, likeimagine both of us having to
Dang.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
that's not good.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Yeah, you know.
So now we have this anxietygoing on.
We have kids at home.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
Yeah, which is priority?

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Yes, exactly, you know, and so I was just like so
you have that going on, Then youhave, then the vaccine comes
about.
You know they're like then ourweak I'm sorry but I'm going to
say this our weak union repswere coming around saying oh you
, you know you have to get thevaccine because you know it's

(49:03):
mandatory and this, and that youmight get fired.
And you know, and I'm I'm aboutresearch, I'm like you ain't
gonna just tell me oh here, takethis freaking poison, yeah, and
then shut up about it correctno, what you're not.
And then, then you see, you knowall these dumb.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
I'm glad you have a brain.
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Then you have these dumb freaking mayors saying oh
well, I'll give you some money.
You know you could go buyyourself a burger and fries if
you take this stupid vaccine andit's like wait, what's really
going on.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
So I did my research and I was like, absolutely not,
I'm not taking that and I waswilling to get fired.
So we knew at that time.
So you have all this crazinessgoing on and then now running
the risk of getting firedbecause I was not going to take
poison, inject poison into mybody.
You know, a lot of peoplealways hit me up like, hey,
Hector, should I be acorrectional officer?
I hear about the stories youtell and it's like these are the
untold stories of theunnecessary stress and anxiety.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Oh yeah, I mean we're rolling up to the park, to the
prison, and they're like are youvaccinated?

Speaker 1 (50:11):
And I'm like none of your business.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
I'm not answering that damn question.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
I remember that they had checkpoints in the parking
lot.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
Yeah, and then they're checking my temperature,
like, and then you have to goget tested.
You don't even have freakingretarded symptoms and then you
have to wear a mask, and thatwas another thing.
I was like I'm not wearing mymask, like yeah, I put it right
here, but I mean, you know, Imean if a sergeant or lieutenant
came out of respect, I put itup because, I'm not
disrespectful, but I'm like, andI'm not gonna enforce these

(50:39):
inmates to wear a mask eitherright you know, and it was just,
it was a really wild time andat that time, actually, on top
of all of that, I was goingthrough some stuff because we
had a, um, the building that Iwas working in, they had a.
It was a crazy building becausewe had it was an honor dorm

(50:59):
describe an honor dorm so honordorm is basically where inmates
have to be right up free for twoyears okay so I mean, you think
about it.
So our prison is a level fourprison.
That's why, and but on paperit's a level two okay right, we
have the death row there.
We have, I I mean LWAPs there.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
Now With the changes.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Well, yeah, but at that time death row was still
active.
We still had death row.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
You had, because death, holyshit.
So I'm aware of death row SanQuentin, yeah, but there was
female death row inmates.
Yeah, and there was a death rowat ccwf.
Yes, I didn't know about thisoh, yeah, yeah, we have where
were they housed?

Speaker 2 (51:45):
they were housed in ad seg, and ad seg is well, you
know what I'd say.
But so they had like the bottomtier all set up where they had
like, um, a treadmill, um, theyhad their own refrigerator.
I believe I might be wrong onthat, but I want to say they did
.
But they had all these thingsfor the death row that they, you

(52:09):
know.
They had their own washer anddryer, and every single building
, by the way, has washers anddryers.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Would they exit their cells without restraints?

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Yeah, so yes, but it was secured.
It was like gated, would they?
Be able to intermingle withother inmates no, okay, so it
was pretty much ran like alock-up unit yes, yeah yeah but?
But they were able to come outto like what they would consider
their day room and they would,you know, talk to each other.
They were able to mingle witheach other wherever?

Speaker 1 (52:40):
were there ever any incidents there, or not?

Speaker 2 (52:42):
really yeah they had fights here and there, but I
mean you had the death row in me, was I mean?

Speaker 1 (52:49):
what is he?
What does a female getcondemned to death for same type
of crime as amanda's?

Speaker 2 (52:53):
oh yeah, I mean, you know.
What's crazy, though, is thatsome of those inmates that were
or that are on death row, well,it's not even activated anymore.
It's like they're they'reroaming.
You know they're roamingthroughout the prison now?

Speaker 1 (53:07):
right, probably hanging on the level one right
now as we speak.
Yeah, probably at a fuckingfire.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Yeah, well, yeah see, because when I was working in
that building, that's when theyhad deactivated, they were
saying hey, yeah we're we'rerelease some of the and they
were putting them in the honordorm.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Hold on.
Yes, you're giving me chestpains.
So you mean to tell me inmatesfrom the condemned row went over
to the honor dorm?
Let me guess Only because theydidn't have write-ups.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Well, yeah, because they met their criteria.
So they were able to go intoand and honestly, I mean it's
like you know you get to a pointwhere nothing surprises you
anymore I'm not saying rightthat, maybe I'm not maybe saying
that maybe condemned femalescannot be honorable at some
point in time.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
But how about a little bit of like a step down?
Process or a little bit ofobservation, but they just
fucking went for it.
Huh yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
They said oh yeah, there you go what part takes on
an honor dorm?

Speaker 1 (54:05):
do they get more privileges in a regular unit?

Speaker 2 (54:08):
yes, they get a lot more freedom, oh my god yeah oh
yeah, I mean, but you know somepeople ran it differently.
You know like I, I like to yousay that I like to control my
environment.
You know, I like things to be,you know, organized, I like
things to be safe, I like thingsto be, you know, controlled,

(54:29):
basically.
And so when I went in there, itwas actually the officer before
me.
She ran a pretty tight ship, soshe was good, and then, but
then when I went in there, I waspretty much the same thing.
I was running a tight ship, soshe was good, and then, um, but
then when I went in there, I waspretty much the same thing.
I was running a tight ship, andof course, the inmates were
okay with it because they'realready used to it, you know.
But then it got to the point towhere, like, um, well, I was

(54:55):
starting to find out things thatthey were doing you, and I was
trying to hold them accountablefor it.
And then that's when thingsstarted getting a little crazy.
So so when I was in thisparticular building, they had a
dog program in there.
Okay, and so that dog program,well, at the time I didn't know

(55:15):
I was all for it, I was likecool.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
It's.
It's helping the public,because what they would do is
they would train these dogs andthey would go out to help people
with, like you know,disabilities, ptsd military yeah
, ptsd stuff like that right,which is I'm all for it you know
, but at the same time they'restill inmates, and you know what
I mean.
Like people would go and petthe dogs, which is all good and

(55:39):
I, you know, I would pet themhere and there, but I wasn't
getting on the ground likepetting them and playing with
these dogs.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
The COs were.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Yeah, some would.
Anyways, that's a whole otherstory.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
You just reminded me of something.
I think you just reminded me ofsomething that happened Like a
new CO was running to an alarmat dawn event and he stopped to
pet the dog and then hecontinued running what the yeah,
something like that, so it justkind of reminded me uh, yeah,
and we looked at the camera.
Sure as shit, he did that, um,but yeah, yeah, go ahead.

(56:10):
Sorry about that.
No, I mean, this is where we'reat these days, but go ahead
that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
see stuff like that.
No, but what was going on wasthis program was out of control,
which I noticed during thepandemic.
I didn't notice how out ofcontrol it was because, you know
, in front of us the inmateswere like all like following
rules and doing what they'resupposed to do, you know all

(56:35):
this other stuff.
But then, of course, thepandemic came down and then
everything slowed down, right,everything was, and I took it
serious because I didn't knowwhat was going on.
Like I didn't want to get caught.
I got COVID and I was sick.
I thought I was going to die,you know what I mean.
So, and people were dying fromCOVID, you know.
So anyway, um, but yeah, I Idiscovered that the inmates were

(56:59):
pretty much running thatprogram, to the point to where
they were making moves.
They were saying who was goingto go into that program, who was
going to get moved?
All this stuff, they wererunning it.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Did you guys have like a MACREC program as well?
Yeah, we have IAC or whatever,and this was not the IAC making
those moves.
This was like the inmates, iecmaking those moves?
No, this was like the inmates.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Well, I discovered that the I'm going to call her a
dog lady, because I can't sayher real name.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
I don't want to say her real name yeah, dog lady.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
So I found out the dog lady was doing whatever
these inmates wanted Of courseshe was.
But yeah, she was doing whateverthey wanted.
So I brought that to theattention of you while I went to
my do my chain of command.
And so I went to the sergeant.
I said, hey, check this out,this is what's going on.
It's not cool, this is not okay, you know.

(57:48):
And then he was like, oh yeah,you know?
No, you don't have to doanything.
She tells you to do which we'remaking bed moves, because these
inmates were trying to tell us.
Tell me where inmates weregonna.
I was like I don't think so.
So they would go to her andshe'd be like, oh, I want these
inmates moved.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
I'm like let me back, let's fast.
Let's rewind back to 2007, 2008, 2009.
If an inmate attempted to tryto get you to, for you to make a
bad move, how would thatsituation play out?

Speaker 2 (58:16):
well, first of all that wouldn't even happen,
correct?
But if it did happen, thatinmate would get moved.
Okay, you know what I mean thatinmate's like hey, check it out
, you ain't running nothing.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
And now you're going to get moved.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
And now we fast forward to this part of time
post-pandemic.
And now these, they're juststraight up running amok.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Ballsy, yeah, they're running amok, but why?
I mean?
Somebody gave them that power,that entitlement.
You know, what I mean.
And here I come and I'm like no, I mean, you're an inmate, I
need to put you back in yourplace, because that's not how
things work.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Yeah, and it's not because you're mean or because
you hate inmates.
It's because, like you statedearlier, you have to ensure a
safe environment for everyone.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
Ensure a safe environment for everyone.
Yeah, and, and you know I waslearning, I discovered that you
know they were.
If they didn't like an inmate,they were making things really
bad for that inmate.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
You know what I mean how do women get inmates get
down?
Uh like in the male institution, they'll just literally stab
you yeah to death sometimes.
But how do females exert their?

Speaker 2 (59:23):
see these females are and they're just very
manipulative and the saying goesthat if they're talking they're
lying.
You know that's what the sayinggoes, because you don't know if
they're trying to manipulateand they they're all smile.
Like they, they look allpresentable and everything and
and their rule following and allthat good stuff, but they have

(59:45):
an agenda.
You know what I mean and andit's hard to understand that if
you don't see it, you know whatI mean.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
But I was there, I was working to get into the
honor dorm you had to have yearsin the department you know you
had to have seniority.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
How, yeah, how unless it was a management spot, you
were not going to work in thereoh, because of the seniority
wise yeah seniority wise so soone of the jobs became bid, so I
was able to bid into it wow, sogo back to ccwf.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Um, was that one of the more pristine positions that
the senior senior cops wantedto work?

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Yeah, was an honor dorm?
Yeah, absolutely, because youknow you're not dealing with the
fighting and the drama.
Like you know, maybe contraWell, they had contraband, but
it was not.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
How is it now the honor dorm?
Is it off the hook?

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Yeah, I mean I heard that.
Yeah, it's pretty much off thehook.
Yeah, I mean I heard that, yeah, it's pretty much off the hook.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Not very honorable.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
What they ended up doing is they ended up messing
up like they always do.
They won't always want to.
They're like hey, what can Imess up?
You know, administration alwaysthinks like how can I make this
bad you?
Know, so let's do it, you know.
And so what they ended up doingwas they put the DDs in there,
and so, yeah, oh my God dude,yes, all bad, and and actually I

(01:01:04):
treated them like all the otherinmates.
I'm like check it out.
Well, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Real quick.
You know, I have a YouTubechannel called that Prison
Garden.
I often call people boogereaters.
Right, this is kind of who Irefer to as a booger eater, yes,
and then you know they're dddevelopmentally disabled, you
know, and I shouldn't be callingthem booger eaters, but these
individuals you have to prompt.
You have to prompt them.
Hey, uh, take a shower, brushyour teeth.
Don't do that, stop, don'tlight your cell on fire.

(01:01:30):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, don't killme.
Yeah, right, and you, they putthese types of people in the
honor dorm.
Yes, freaking way, man yep.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
So you know, that was an issue in itself because you
know, here you got, and then yougot these inmates who don't
follow rules, who are just doingtheir own program, but I
started treating them like youknow the rest of them and and we
had an officer designated, like, specifically to work with
these dds because, because ofthe documentation, you have to

(01:02:00):
do with them.
Yes, and I hate paperwork.
I'm the first one to admit thatI don't like paperwork and I
don't like to deal with all that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
I feel you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
And so yeah, so he was awesome.
He's like the whisperer of theDDs.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
No, no, no.
You need those people.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
And, as far as I know , he's still there and yeah,
he's awesome, you know, and Iwould be like, hey, you know
this and that, and he'd be like,all right, I got it I got it?

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Did it ever get to a point where the senior cops
bounced and bit out?

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Oh man, yeah, I mean I can't.
Right before I left, I want tosay pretty much you can't catch
a senior cop in a building.
I mean I highly doubt it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
Where in CCWF can a senior cop be safe at?

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
Shoot nowhere.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Nowhere.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
Nowhere You're not safe anywhere.
Unfortunately you're not.
I mean, your officers areretiring.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
I mean I retire, and we're not necessarily talking
about safe as in danger, we'retalking about safe as in, like
career prolongment.
Yes, like how to fucking keepyour fucking job.
Exactly how retirement?

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
how to stay under the radar, because you're just
trying to survive yeah, surviveexactly.
Just show up to work dowhatever, don't say nothing,
don't hear nothing and see, andthat's where we go back to the,
to the lazy culture, you know,and it's like do you blame them,
in a sense?

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
Like.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
But I will say this though, and maybe you can
piggyback off of this I totallyget the environment, I totally
get the agenda, but I myself amnot going to sacrifice safety
and security for me or my peopleyes, or my job yeah, right For
me or my people, at the expenseof being lazy.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Exactly.
You got to have a you got todraw that line.
Oh yeah, I mean, people are getto the point and I don't even
know if it's lazy, maybe it'sscared.
I don't even know what you wantto call it, because you're you
got.
I mean, right before I left,you know, right before I retired
, um, you got people respondingto alarms and not even doing

(01:04:02):
anything, basically watching anofficer get jumped or or watch
an officer get beat up I've seenthat.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
I've seen that it's like I've seen that at every
prison.
You know I see a lot of videosyeah and it's like to me.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
I'm sorry.
You fire them like why are theyeven there?
Because you don't belong in aprison.
If you're not even going tohelp your partner, I mean, if
you see two inmates fighting andyou don't want to get involved,
I mean you should, you should.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
But to see your partner getting attacked and
then you not doing anything.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
that's crazy getting attacked and then you not doing
anything.
That's crazy.
With all your experience, allyour life experiences, all your
corrections experiences, how doyou view those people that do
not get involved when they'rewatching their partner getting
jumped?

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
spineless, like just straight.
Spineless, weak, coward.
I mean all of that yeah becausethere's no reason, logical
reason to not.
You know what I mean 100?

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
I?
I can't fucking fathom iteither.
I can't understand it.
I can't comprehend it, even ifyou're gonna go in there and get
your ass kicked yourself.
That's kind of the whole point,you know.
Yes, exactly, you'resacrificing yourself so your
partner doesn't get the fuckingfull enchilada.
Yeah, you guys can both takehalf a fucking enchilada, you
know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
yeah, exactly, and that's just how it is.
It's like you know, like I mean, you see, I'm short and I used,
I mean I gained a lot of weight, but I used to be a lot thinner
and I didn't care, like I knewthat.
Okay, well, I get into thisimage, probably kick my ass, but
I don't care, it's not thepoint you know like, just like
when the transgenders came over.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
You know what I mean that's, I'm probably gonna have
ptsd after this fucking episode.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
Man, it's like so shocking yeah, honestly, it's
like a never-ending like.
No, it's like a fuckingnightmare from hell.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
That's realistic.
Some of the stuff you have toldme already honor dorm condemned
inmates and now let's covid.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
Now let's talk about the transgenders yeah, so when
so and I was working in thatbuilding too, mind you, we got
this is during the pandemic.
Still, you know, I'm tellingyou, we got the, you know all
this stuff going on.
Then, right in the midst of allthat, you got the transgenders
coming in and check this out.
So we have the, the two, thefirst two that came over and

(01:06:28):
they, they housed them on a yard, which is a reception yard,
okay.
And then they're like hey, um,just want to let you know, okay,
this is where the, the safetyand all that goes out the window
, because we've got to cater tothese transgenders, because you
know they're special, you know,for whatever reason.
And I was like okay, so theydon't go through work, change,

(01:06:55):
they go through the hole.
We call it the hole in the wall.
It's a door between Alpha Yardand Bravo Yard and they just let
them straight to my building.
No, searching, no, nothing,they're special.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
Does that door normally get used by staff or
something?

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
Yeah, it would be used by staff, but why are we
using it for inmates?

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
Has any other inmate ever went through that doorway?

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
Yeah, we allow inmates to go so because on
bravo yard you have the eopsthat yeah, and we have eops over
there too, yeah, crazy.
So the eops would go from bravoyard to a yard through that
door yeah to go to go um, to goprogram, but they're being

(01:07:41):
escorted, right, they're beingescorted, you know whatever, and
it was the norm, it's thenormal program, but you have,
and then you have reception onthat yard too.
So that was just wild the waythey did that.
But um, so, yeah, inmates didgo through that.
But see, the thing is, is thathere you have these transgender,
and at that time I don't knowwhat level, if they were level

(01:08:02):
one, two, whatever.
They were, basically biologicalmales yeah, they're, men yeah so
that these men came over toprogram and then, because I'm
like, like I said, I like tocontrol my environment, I'd be
like you're not coming in hereuntil I search you correct,
because I want to know whatyou're trying to bring.
And why are you even trying toprogram over here anyways?
And why are they programming inthe honor dorm?
Like why?
Because it's the honor dorm,why you know what I?

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
mean.
There's no way.
I've heard enough.
They destroyed the honor dormby putting dds transgenders,
death row inmates.
Yeah fuck, are they thinking?

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
right, well, I'm telling you, they're like hey,
how can I mess something up?
And not only mess it it up,destroy it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
Destroy it.
You know what I mean Annihilateit.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Annihilate it Like well, here we'll just do this.
So at every turn.
You know, when I was in thatbuilding, it was just always a
fight.
And also remember too, this iswhat I want to tell people is
that when you come across thingsthat are not in policy, you

(01:09:02):
make sure that you call and getclarification and then you
follow up with the emaildocument hey, just to understand
or clarify what you want me todo X, y and Z and then let them
respond yeah, that's what I want, because you're always they're
going to say oh, I didn't saythey could program in there.
When did I say that?
Why are they programming inthere?

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Wait a minute.
Perfect, great example.
So you're about to put some menin an honor dorm, right,
because they just showed up andmaybe your sergeant wants you to
.
So what you're saying is hey,you call the sergeant, right?
You're advising the new staffwhenever you face any type of
situation.
Yes, hey, serge, this is whatyou want to put these men in
this building?
Yeah, okay, cool, all right,I'm gonna shoot you an email
right now confirming that thisis what you want, yep, or

(01:09:43):
another thing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
What I would tell I would do is I would say hey, can
you do me a favor and email me?
They won't specifically whatyou want.
Sometimes they would, though,because I'd be like I'm not
doing it until you email me thatunless they gave me a direct
orders, and I'm not that crazyyeah be like oh no, you know,
and being subordinate, you knowwell big for the viewers that
are completely oblivious.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Here's why.
So if a man were to ever gointo an honor dorm and strangle
the shit out of a female andkill her, or rape her or rape
her bloody mess everywhere.
They're gonna blame the copexactly they're gonna blame the
ceo.
Yes, they're gonna wash theirfucking hands clean and just
live another day yeah, and thenyou going to get fired because,
nobody told you to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
You know because there's no proof.
Where's the documentation?
Who told you to do that?
What are you thinking?
You know, because that's whatthey do.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
Part of the whole NDF mixing, non-designated program
mixing GPs, s's and Y's, fresnoBulldogs it's all the same
concept.
You're putting people wherethey shouldn't be.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
At the expense of everyone.
Yeah, and then I have inmatescoming to me like hey, you know,
Ms Rod, what do I do, as thisworld is going to hell at CCWF.
Are the female inmates likingthis uneasiness and unsecure, or
are they disliking it?

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
Oh no, they.
They disliking it.
Oh no, they're, they weredisliking it.
And see, you know the, the.
I don't know how it is to workwith the, with the men, but when
they, these men, came over, youknow I I treated them as, as an
inmate, like how I do.
You know, the rest of them, Idon't care, you know you're a
man or whatever, transgender, asthey want, and I'm not going to

(01:11:20):
treat you special, I don't care.
602 me, do whatever you want todo.
You know, and um, I just feellike a lot of people, the
inmates, everybody was likewalking on eggshells, not
everybody.
A lot of people were, were alittle like intimidated because
they didn't want to, they don'twant the wrath they don't want
to poke wrath.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
They didn't want to poke the bear.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
They didn't want to poke the bear and I just
continued to do my job, Otherthan something was quite like.
Why are they programming in mybuilding when they could go to
another building?

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Did that create issues for you?
You not changing up your MO andcontinuing your style.
You know what?

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
Actually, surprisingly, the men they I
don't know, they never told mespecifically, but they always
respected me you know like likeI when I was working on the yard
.
So I ended up leaving thatbuilding.
I was working on the yard and Ihad one of the infamous inmates
on that yard his name startwith a c yes and um that's a

(01:12:21):
real piece of work.
Yeah, came from donovan oh, Ididn't know that oh, 100.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
Oh interesting.
It was mandatory thateverywhere he went they he had
to go with a video camerabecause he would allege that the
staff were raping him oh, isthat why?

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
I see, because I would.
They would always go to the, socheck it out before I forget.
So when he came over, they puthim he was in a wheelchair.
Yeah, he came over in awheelchair right, but could walk
perfectly fine 100%.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
But I'm not a doctor.
I mean, I don't know, butanyways.

Speaker 2 (01:12:55):
and then they put him in the most.
Remember how I tell you likethey like to say hey, how can I
destroy or mess up a building?
Well, they put him in the mostvulnerable building, which is
where all the women go to.
They're either recovering fromcancer or they're really old,
they can't care for themselves.
Yeah, they put him in thatbuilding.

(01:13:16):
And not only did they put himin that, that building with the
vulnerable, they said that hehad to have a bunkie had to have
one.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
Why, what do you mean ?
Had to have one?
Yeah, they said that he can'tlive by himself.
Who fucks at that?

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
that came up from above, like you know what I mean
, like it was above the warden,supposedly I am.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
I am convinced now, after you told me that, that
these there's evil people inthis world oh yeah and this is
evilness playing out yeah right,because there is no other
logical explanation why somebodywould say this man has to have
a bunkie right in this, in thisfemale prison that's besides
evil.

Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
And not to mention, this person has a history of
violence.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
And rape.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Yes, and so now you're making forcing because
you got to remember, if theseinmates refuse to live with
these men.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
They get written up.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
They get written up.
How is that even fair for them,like they're?
Being forced to live with men,okay.
Forced to live with men, okay.
And you got to remember too,some of these women have been
victims of rape and been victimsof abuse and been you know.
They've been through a wholelot of stuff and now they are
being forced to live with menthis is probably the most like

(01:14:34):
eye-opening fucking episode thatwe literally ever had I the
stuff we're talking about is Idon't know how to tell the
public this you had a maletransgender with a real piece of
work at Donovan.
He's all over the news Violent.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
Violent, criminal, predator, Predator yes, last
name starts with a C, ends withan arrow, and they housed him in
a female housing unit andsomebody up above I don't know
Jeff McCumber's fucking area ofexpertise said he must have a
female cellmate and thesefemales don't have a say in it.

(01:15:10):
A lot of them were victims ofsexual assault themselves.
I have a fucking daughter andthat's really pissing me off
right now.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
Oh, yeah, and that's really pissing me off right now.
Oh yeah, and us, you know, asfemale officers, you know the
inmates were running to us forsome type of you know safety,
you know like, what do we do?
What can I do?
And all I could tell them wasthe only option they have is to
602.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
But I don't, we had to.
My brain works a littledifferent.
Yeah Right, I'd be like youwant that problem?

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
I don't.
I we had.
My brain works a littledifferent?

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
Yeah, right, I'll be like you want that problem to go
away here?
Right, make that problem goaway forever.
That's just the way my my brainthinks, like, hey, there's only
one way to eliminate thisfucking problem right now.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
But you can't think like that as a CEO, right, but
you're in a really fucked upposition.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
You are up position.
You are.
Well, we were.
We were put in a really messedup predicament because now, like
remember I was talking aboutthe security checks.
Now, those security checks,like were very important, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
Because those are not secure, those are, those are
like life checks those are likeyeah, and then you know god
checks because yeah, you know,what's crazy is that after the
first allegation right Of ofsexual assault.
Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
So that in me was I don't know I might be getting my
story wrong, but I know for afact that he didn't go to AdSeg
Of course he didn't.
No.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
You got motherfuckers killing dudes on yards right
now that are not going to AdSeg.

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
Oh wow, I didn't even know that 100%.
That's wild.
Then you get another allegation.
I mean at what point?
I mean come on that's.
I mean, yes, the females aretheir inmates, but that's that's
which goes back to the evil.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
Yeah, inhumane fucking.
What do they call those civilrights violations?

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
yeah, that's just that's wrong, that's just that
is very wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
So yeah, so when I was thinking how I was going to
solve that problem with, like,maybe eat a steak dinner at the
podium, actually leave my knifethere and go home for the day.
You know what I mean, but letthem handle it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
But that's fucking crazy you know, you got to
remember, yes, these, okay.
So, like that building that hewas in, these are inmates that
are not troubled, they're notviolent.
So so you're putting him withnonviolent, non, you know the
most vulnerable inmates.
What are they going to do?

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
So during that chaos that you're talking about, I
believe I had already quit thedepartment and I had a lot of
female inmates and likeadvocates coming to me for help
man, and I tried my best to airout that truth.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
Yeah, and I mean, like you know, like during the
pandemic the inmates were comingto me and they're, like you
know, should I get the vaccine?
And I said I can't tell you whatto do.
That's the I go.
But I'll tell you what.
I'm not going to get it, or I'myou know what I mean Like know,

(01:18:12):
and I'm like, I'm different,like you're I'm not gonna do.
That's not gonna happen.
I'm not gonna allow some man tolive in my, my cell, my room.
You know you do.
But see, you got to remember.
These inmates are trying to gohome too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know theyou're put, they're put in a
predict.
They want to go home, right totheir family.
So what can they do that?

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
is so fucking inhumane.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
I mean, it's evil, I can't top the word besides evil
yeah, what they did, it is whatthey did and then now look, they
got him out exactly, it's sickso why was he there to begin
with?
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
it was so yeah, I mean and then is he back at a
male institution.
I think he is huh good and it'sjust I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
It's just, it's really, it's really sad and
something does need to be done,you know, and one of the things
I think needs to be done is thatthey need to transfer out all
the level threes and level foursno people need to be held
accountable at the top.

Speaker 1 (01:19:12):
Oh yeah For these decisions that they made and
continue to make.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
Oh yeah, absolutely that for sure.
But as far as safety andsecurity goes, they need to
start getting rid of those levelfours Because you don't get a
pass.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
You don't get a pass for getting people raped and
getting people killed.

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
No, no, and you're still advocating for more to
come.
I mean what, still advocatingfor for more to come?
I mean, what are they going todo when every man says I'm a
woman now.

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
Now, what are you going to do?
So how many officers on theseniority roster are there at
ccwf?

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
um, about I want to say before I left, like 4, 30 or
something, 4, 30 during allthis stuff that things are going
downhill.

Speaker 1 (01:19:49):
What was the morale like around amongst the the
bunks?

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
oh, man, horrible, horrible.
The morale there.
It was like every man forthemselves, pretty much.
That's the only way I coulddescribe it, and I'm sure it's
probably worse had that changedfrom when you first started your
career there oh yeah,absolutely see, when I, you know
, like I was naive, thinking, oh, everybody's going to help me,

(01:20:15):
everything's cool, you know.
no, you had to earn assistance.
You had to earn that knowledge.
You know, if you had to provethat you were going to work, you
had to prove that you wereready to get your hands dirty.
If you will, you know, and thenpeople would be hey, let me
help you out, let me let meteach you Burn your bones, yeah,

(01:20:35):
you know, and, but now it'slike a free for all.
You know you got nobody wants tohelp nobody.
Everybody's for themselves.
You know, nobody has your back.
And it's just like but look atthe top, though.
I mean, if you, it starts fromthe top right.
Everybody's backstabbingEverybody's to get to the top.

(01:20:56):
They're stepping on everybody.
You know what I mean and it'slike you see it, nobody.

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
But in order for change to happen, there has to
be change.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:06):
Right, just sitting back and not doing anything.
Sitting back and complaining,sitting back and being selfish
is not the answer.
No, back and complaining.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
Sitting back and being selfish is not the answer.

Speaker 1 (01:21:14):
No, absolutely not Right.
There has to be a change.
I mean, there has to besacrifice, and whatever way that
looks, you know and I've beenthinking about it more and more
like people are expecting changewithout doing anything.
Yeah, it doesn't work that way.

Speaker 2 (01:21:36):
You know, and the thing is is that, like they say,
the saying goes, you're doingthe same thing every day,
expecting a different insanity,yeah and expecting a different
result.
Like, how are you going tothink things are going to change
when your actions are notchanging?
Correct so, and I I trulybelieve that that's gonna have
to.
Of course, we gotta startgetting rid of people at the top
, and we have have to get rid ofthe California model, for sure,

(01:21:56):
and people.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
We need to go into that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
How would that pitch to you guys?

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
Well, when that came about I want to say it was
around the same time as thepandemic too that started like
getting into talks.
They started sending people toNorway.
I thought that was a joke.
I was like how that doesn'teven make sense.
These women are violent, youknow what I mean.
They're assaulting all the time.

(01:22:24):
So, like during the pandemic,it was controlled, right, there
wasn't too many incidents goingon.
And then, once we went back tonormal, of course it started
getting crazy.
Right, they were battering eachother, battering staff, all the
drugs rolling in, all thatstuff we're allowing visitors,

(01:22:45):
so of course more drugs, allthis stuff was going on, right.
And then you bring in theCalifornia model where it's like
you can't hold these inmatesaccountable anymore.
You know, you're you're tryingto write the inmates up and do
the right thing and they're justdropping their write-ups or
they're dismissing them,deleting them or undermining

(01:23:07):
anything that you do, facts, youknow basically, they're fudging
the numbers, they're cookingthe books

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
oh yeah they're making write-ups go away to make
it look like these programs areeffective.
Oh, exactly Kind of reminds meof the Menendez brothers, but
that's another story.
Yeah, same concept.

Speaker 2 (01:23:21):
No, yeah, you're right, You're absolutely right.
And they would, and I would seeit, and they would be like oh
yeah, we're normal program whenwe're barely even surviving here
.

Speaker 1 (01:23:29):
It's almost like Well , there was that massive riot in
Ironwood where the 200 sureñoswent off on the cops.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
That was a skeleton crew that's scary Like eight.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
It was 200 on eight, with no response from the other
sister facility.
Nobody was at work.

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
See, and this is my thing, Like you know, you pay
your dues every month, right?

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
People pay your dues every month.

Speaker 2 (01:23:56):
Right, people pay their dues every month and what
are they getting at it golf.
They're golfing with likethat's a slap in the face.

Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
Well, I mean it's it's it's corruption, it's
agenda, it's it's corruptionyeah and see and then.

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
So that started.
The california model startedtaking place.
Then at at cWF, there was a bigriot.

Speaker 1 (01:24:15):
What did that riot consist of?

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
So that, and you know what that riot was bullshit,
because it actually and the copsdidn't have anything to do with
it Like everything right, theymake decisions at the top and
then the officers are the oneshaving to to deal with the
bullshit.

Speaker 1 (01:24:34):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:24:34):
You know, and so as far as I know because of course
I wasn't there but the chiefdeputy or AW somebody made
orders for them to go and bringthem down to six feet cubic feet
.

Speaker 1 (01:24:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
For the lockers right cubic feet, yeah, for the
lockers right.
Well, for whatever great,whoever made the great, I gave
them the great idea to take allthe inmates out in the middle of
the summer, where it gets 115degrees, and put them in the
chow hall yeah and I mean thatwe're talking about about 200
inmates.
God, yes, I mean around thereand then, and then now you're,

(01:25:14):
you're leaving them in there forhours and these inmates they
like what did I say during thepandemic?
They mostly care about theirproperty.
I mean, they've been down foryears, they have so much
property and now you know was ithot?

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
I mean, did you hear that it was hot?

Speaker 2 (01:25:29):
it was hot and it was in the chow hall, so now it's
humid, it's muggy.
And it's like you know.
So now they're gettingimpatient, they're getting
irritated, now they're becomingirate, and then, of course,
what's bound to happen?
That you're not letting themout of the chow hall.

(01:25:50):
I mean, they got to use a brush, it's not?

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
going they have and who's in there?
And who's in there?
Probably two cops, probablyProbably two COs.
Yeah, kind of just fuckingposted.

Speaker 2 (01:25:59):
Yeah, and I mean, can you imagine dealing with a
bunch of angry females?

Speaker 1 (01:26:05):
And I mean they got their vest on too.
They're hot as fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:26:09):
Oh yeah, they have their equipment.
They probably haven't even ate,they probably don't have water
or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:26:16):
So what happens in this riot?

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
So what ends up happening is the inmates start
getting resistive.
They're trying to get out,they're being whatever I don't
mean to laugh.
All hell breaks loose there.
You know what I mean andhonestly, I don't blame the
inmates.
Like, here you are, you'reholding me hostage and I mean

(01:26:37):
I'm, I'm not saying that yeah,yeah right.
I'm not justifying what theydid, but at the same time it
could have been prevented factsyou know what I mean, like, and
I you know, of course I wasn'tthere, so I don't know exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:26:52):
So was force used.

Speaker 2 (01:26:53):
Yeah, I mean yeah, you got over 100 inmates.

Speaker 1 (01:26:58):
What was the Code 3 riot called?

Speaker 2 (01:26:59):
Yeah, Code 3 riot was called Was there a staff being
assaulted.
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
You got staff being assaulted, staff got injured,
all behind the management makingbad decisions.
Now, as a result of this riot,did staff members get well
illegally?

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
moved to other institutions.
Yeah, and you know what's crazyinvoluntary move involuntary
move to other prisons and theyall happen to be hispanic out of
over a hundred officers ofdifferent races that's weird and
you only select.

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
I think it was like six or seven or eight or
whatever one I believe was abrand spanking new cop.
From what I heard, yeah, hey,but you know what's crazy?
They were selected, theyweren't correct they were
hand-picked right by by, fromwhat I believe, the associate
director, yeah, from what Iheard from fops.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
What does somebody from fops have anything to do
with selecting?
Agendas exactly disgusting andthen, on top of that, the weird
thing is one of those officershappened to be running for the
president at that chapter of thechapter, and so it makes you
think what Did that president atthat time?

(01:28:15):
Have a say, in that move 100%Game of Thrones.

Speaker 1 (01:28:19):
You ever seen Game of Thrones?
It's very politically and verycutthroat, similar to moves like
that.
Yeah, here's a kicker.
Please tell me the femaleinmates got held accountable and
please tell me that they didnot have a day of therapy or a
day of peace.
What was it?
A day of recovery?

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
well, let me go back.
So the very next day, thewarden sends out a memo, or not
even a memo, like an emailaddressing hey, commanding, you
know um, commanding, all the umthe responding staff that
utilize force.

Speaker 1 (01:28:55):
Yes, exactly, I've seen that email.

Speaker 2 (01:28:56):
Hey, you know good job.
You know blah, blah, blah, allthis stuff.
You know giving them, you knowcredit because it was definitely
due, you know because that was.
That's a crazy situation.
And then, next thing you know,these officers are uprooted,
transferred out.
You know no inmate, I don'teven know if any inmates went to
Ad Seg, maybe for a day or two.

(01:29:17):
Then, to add insult to injury,then the next day or two days
later they have a day of healingfor the inmates In the gym.
Not even like hey, you know,know, are these officers okay or
you?

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
know a day of healing not, not not holding them.

Speaker 2 (01:29:41):
Was there anybody was ?

Speaker 1 (01:29:41):
there a fly on the wall in there.
Did anybody know what happenedin there?
Like were they talking about?
No, what did they provide?
Because they provide atherapist I I don't even know.

Speaker 2 (01:29:51):
It was more about like let's go ahead and and make
sure that you guys, let's makethis a safe space for you guys,
because you guys weretraumatized and officers were
not in there because theofficers traumatized them.
So we have to keep the officersaway this is california, this
is fucking california.

Speaker 1 (01:30:11):
In a nutshell, like right now 2025.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
Right now, that's not all californians, because you
and I are not down with thattype of mentality right but that
is california politics at itsfucking finest right, and the
sad thing is that all thoseinmates that you know battered
officers or that obstructed andthat you know incited all that

(01:30:41):
stuff, all their write-ups.

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
Disappeared.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
Disappeared Dismissed .
Rvrs got dismissed.

Speaker 1 (01:30:46):
But I guarantee you this I guarantee all the cops
that used force got put underinvestigation.

Speaker 2 (01:30:50):
Oh, yeah, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:30:57):
And then people wonder you know why is it so bad
to be a ceo?

Speaker 2 (01:30:58):
yeah, or why there's a high turnaround rate, or why
people are just outrightquitting now, or why a lot of
people are on workman's compexactly or you know what I mean,
but it's so fucking stupid andthen that's why it goes back to
the culture of, you know, like Isaid, being lazy.
Well, why are they lazy?
Well, because when they dotheir job and do what they're

(01:31:19):
supposed to do, you punish them,you know, and it's like you're
damned if you do, you're damnedif you don't.
You know and that doesn'tjustify you.
If you see your partner gettingas battered or salted you
better jump in and do something.

Speaker 1 (01:31:35):
So basically yeah, and I mean, would you agree with
this statement A?
If you're currently a CO andyou got a fucking shitload of
time, just go to work, Mind yourbusiness.
When you see your partnergetting his ass kicked, jump in
Period.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
Yeah Right, you got to jump in.

Speaker 1 (01:31:48):
That's what it boils down to Right.
That's what it boils down toright.

Speaker 2 (01:31:57):
I mean no more trying to fucking save the day, solve
crime, fucking try to find dope.
Yeah, I mean you're just thereto, like you know, just show up
and get your paycheck.

Speaker 1 (01:32:02):
It's hot potato.
You're there to make sure thebomb doesn't explode on your
shift.

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
Yeah, exactly, you know, like, and it hasn't
stopped Since that riot happened, the incidents on, like the
inmates assaulting staff hasskyrocketed, like it was like,
okay, the very little controlthat the prison had of the
inmates or the officers had ofthe inmates, it disappeared.

(01:32:27):
After that riot.
There's I mean I'm hearing likethe inmates are saying, whoa,
you can't do nothing.
What are you going to do?
Absolutely, you know they'respitting in officers' you can't
do nothing.
Absolutely.
You know they're spitting in anofficer's face Like what.
Nothing happens to them.
You know, and this is notcoming from level ones and two
inmates, this is coming fromlevel threes and fours, because

(01:32:47):
those inmates have nothing tolose, they don't care If you
could wave a magic wand or ifthey were to put you in charge
of a female institution.

Speaker 1 (01:32:57):
what are some changes you would make?

Speaker 2 (01:33:00):
Well, right off the bat, I would transfer those
level threes and fours out.

Speaker 1 (01:33:04):
But where would you transfer them to?

Speaker 2 (01:33:06):
I would transfer them to a prison that can
accommodate, like a 180 designbuilding where you could like
segregate so what you're sayingis, the design of ccwf is not
enough to be able to house yesviolent level three and level
four female exactly well, justput things into perspective and

(01:33:30):
that even it's not even enoughto sometimes because they ended
up putting like, like I said,they like to mess things up, so
they put all the C over Cinmates into back to reception
into I believe it's a 180 designbuilding.
Since they put them in thatbuilding they've been having

(01:33:54):
co-twos co-threes in thatbuilding because they don't want
to be in there.

Speaker 1 (01:33:58):
they're resisting, and then the one officer that is
able to was able to kind ofcontrol that they move them out
because the inmates were nothappy with them so when cdcr
posts on their website walk ofwalk, cancer walk at ccwf or
playing sports at ccwf, likewhat is that reflecting of

(01:34:21):
actually what's transpiringinside of ccwf?

Speaker 2 (01:34:24):
no, of course not.
There is no.

Speaker 1 (01:34:27):
You know kumbaya there is no kumbaya.
There's no kumbaya in realityno and I mean, you're the source
, you're there listen, they hada to put things in perspectives.

Speaker 2 (01:34:37):
They had a where they tried to what they call like
bridge the gap between officersor staff, but mostly officers
and inmates.
Right, they had a whole thingon the main yard and I, the only
people that showed up, wasprobably just the people that
worked on the yard.
Hey, no, and then this was allvoluntary, right, officers?

(01:34:58):
Hey, come out, have some foodwith inmates, you know?
Like, have some?
Yeah, let's, let's, whatever.
Do you think anybody showed up?
No, only people that showed upwere all the freaking brown
nosers, that's it yeah, I mean,or the people I mean that had to
be there.
Hey, I'm working the yard, youknow, so I got to be there, but
voluntarily to go there, no, sothat if that doesn't show you

(01:35:22):
like, hey, that gap is just, youknow, it's so huge that the
only way to fix it is.

Speaker 1 (01:35:39):
What advice do you have for?

Speaker 2 (01:35:40):
ceos.
I mean, you have, you have somuch experience, what advice do
you have?
Um, I definitely.
Well, you're talking about asfar as the ones that are there
right now yeah, that are likeyou're a.

Speaker 1 (01:35:51):
You're a 24 year old, 25 year old, maybe 26 year old,
you just started you got one,two, three, four years in.
What the hell is the advice?
Reality, reality.
You know, we no longer work forthe department, we're not bound
by policy.
What would you honestly, wouldyou authentically, tell them?

Speaker 2 (01:36:12):
Well, I will put it this way I will never, ever tell
an office or anybody to apply,because to me I feel like that
would be like me saying go, walkand fire.
Like I would not tell somebodyto go walk and fire and I'm not
going to tell somebody to goapply for the department, but
obviously, if you're alreadythere and you're in it, I would

(01:36:36):
take some serious re-evaluationof where you want to be in life
and, and you know, becausepeople are pretty much being
made to put their morals andtheir ethics almost no, I mean
facts, mean facts.
Like you're at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:36:54):
It's like it's no longer about policy procedure.
Yeah, now we fucking moral andspiritual battle.

Speaker 2 (01:36:58):
Yes, exactly, you know, and uh, and you brought it
up right there.
That's a good point.
It's a spiritual battle.
Go find God honestly, go builda relationship with God and, and
honestly, once I started doingthat, I mean I left the
department.
And I didn't leave it, Iretired because I got injured,

(01:37:19):
you know, and, honestly, it wasthe biggest blessing now for me
that that happened, because andyou bring up a good point.

Speaker 1 (01:37:23):
Not only you know God , but utilize your resources.
There's EAP, there's peersupport.
You know there's there's.
You have insurance.
You definitely have insurance.
Contact you for mental healthservices.
Get physically fit.
Eat healthy.
Don't drink with your partners.

Speaker 2 (01:37:40):
Yeah, you know, watch your circle, you know, Don't
think that you could.
Just you know, don't.
Don't go out and party and doall this crazy stuff like people
are doing.

Speaker 1 (01:37:50):
Blow your money.

Speaker 2 (01:37:51):
Don't save.

Speaker 1 (01:37:52):

Speaker 2 (01:37:52):
Like these are all traps yes, live within your
means, you know I I learned thatthe hard way you know, and it's
like you really have to bestrategic about how you want to
move forward.
You know, because at any momentif you are caught up in an
incident, your, your job couldbe gone, you know, or?

Speaker 1 (01:38:14):
And how many times have we seen that?

Speaker 2 (01:38:16):
A lot, a lot of times , I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:38:19):
I remember I told my mom one time mom, they're firing
people for no reason.
She's like no Hector.
They don't fire people for noreason.

Speaker 2 (01:38:25):
Oh yeah, you're collateral damage.
You know that's really what youare, because it's like hey, oh,
you know they were there, we'regonna go ahead and fire that
person, so that way I could goahead and promote to captain or
to leave no loose ends.
You're right yeah, you know, andoh my god and it's, it's sad
because it shouldn't be likethat, it should just be.

(01:38:47):
You know what this is, whathappened, this is facts and
that's it like let's, let's goahead and take care of the
officer who, just all you know,like, like in the mail, I mean
it's coming to the women'sprison too, you know, because we
got them in there.
These women are violent.
People don't realize that theyare violent you know they.

Speaker 1 (01:39:08):
They have weapons too , you know, and so it's like
they get down crazy, though man,they'll slice your face or
throw boiling water on you.

Speaker 2 (01:39:18):
They're fucking vicious yes, they are vicious
and people don't realize that.
But I I think if you're thereright now, if you're an officer
right now and you want to staythere, you know you have to
think about is that prison rightfor you?
Do you want to stay there?
You know you have to thinkabout is that prison right for
you?
Do you want to promote,especially if you have like a
couple or a few years in thinkabout promotion you know

(01:39:40):
promotion think of other thingsthat you could do, you know,
because being an officer stuckas an officer, is not the only.

Speaker 1 (01:39:47):
Correct.
There's other avenues.
Yeah, and I mean ultimately,yeah, even if you have two years
as an officer, promote, promoteyour sergeant, because you
probably have that mentality tobe able to make those changes.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
yeah, and a good heart and a good head on your
shoulders yes and see, and andthis is another thing I want to
talk about is, as a femaleofficer, we are like constantly
judged.
You know we're judged as far asif we're, you know, lazy or
we're too like my husband wouldcall it Karen You're like you're

(01:40:17):
Karen, and it's basically justofficers enforcing the rules,
and it's like we're judged nomatter what we do.
So just be yourself, beyourself, don't worry about.
In other words, people aregoing to judge you no matter
what, especially if you're afemale.
Like when I was working, Ididn't wear makeup, I didn't
care where, I didn't put on anymakeup, especially because if I

(01:40:39):
was going to get sprayed in theface, I don't want to worry
about that you know what I mean,because that did happen to me,
but I wasn't wearing makeup soit didn't matter.
You know, and I got.
You know um the powders fromthe blast.
You know, wear clothingunderneath your uniform, you
know, just do things.

Speaker 1 (01:40:59):
Those are all key points right there that I never
even considered.

Speaker 2 (01:41:02):
Yeah, because once, well twice, we had an accidental
discharge from a blast, an OCblast, and the powder got all
over the place, and for whateverreason, because it was just
like the pepper or whatever itwas so it didn't really affect
me.
So I was able to clean andclean that whole program office

(01:41:23):
and it didn't affect me at all.
But it got all over my clothes,you know, and I'm going home.

Speaker 1 (01:41:28):
I don't want to bring those clothes to now you got to
take it off before you know.

Speaker 2 (01:41:31):
Yeah, but luckily yeah, I always had shorts and
and then another t-shirtunderneath.
So you're, you know.
That's the thing.
It sucks because we have towear extra layers.
You know it's hot and whatever,but I would, you know, just be
who you are.
You don't have to.
You know, don't please anybody.
You know, don't degrade.

(01:41:53):
Or how do you say Don't changefor somebody else.
Like just to get a job, just towhatever, because you're
irreplaceable as soon as youthey as soon as then you academy
class shows up, you're going tobe.
Oh, yeah, yeah, the new bootiescome on and and the cuter or
whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:42:11):
Younger.

Speaker 2 (01:42:11):
Yeah, younger, yeah, younger, and they don't know any
better.
And they're going to be likewhatever you want, I got you.
You know 100%, and it's likeyou're just just remember that
you know, as soon as I was ableto bid, I bid, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:42:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:42:25):
And then, you know, a couple of years later I had a
female sergeant, highlyrespected her, and she's like
come work for me on the yard.
And I was like go for a female,no problem.
She ended up retiring and thena male came in but I was like
I'm gonna be leaving soonanyways.

Speaker 1 (01:42:41):
But yeah, wow, man, we covered so much in this
episode.
I want to bring you back to doa part two really there's so
much, I mean dang, we just gotinto, like, I mean, we unpacked
a lot yeah, there's a lot moredefinitely to talk about for
sure yeah no, for sure like Ireally enjoyed our time here and

(01:43:03):
thank you for making that drivedown oh yeah, absolutely thank
you.

Speaker 2 (01:43:06):
And I do want to say on record you are making an
impact.
Maybe you know, nobody'stelling you, I'm not sure but
you are making an impact outthere.
And for the people out there Iwould say to go get his book.

Speaker 1 (01:43:17):
Oh cool that that book is awesome thank you um
operational recall right yeah,operation, yard recall, yard
recall, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:43:24):
Appreciate awesome book please go get it,
especially if you are a cadet.
But I, I mean, I don't workthere anymore and I was like
this is good stuff.
It's very informative, forwhether you're a seasoned
officer or just starting.

Speaker 1 (01:43:39):
I appreciate that.
So, once again, thank you, andyou'll be back for sure.
Yes, cool, there you guys haveit.
Man, I told you I was going todo it.
Another banger for you guys, ifyou like what you saw.

Speaker 2 (01:43:59):
Make sure you hit that subscribe button.
Love you keep pushing forwardunhinged line.
Hector's legend engraved livinglife raw, never been tamed.
From the hood to the truthentails pen, hector, bravo.
Unhing story never ends.

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