The Female CO Experience: Breaking Barriers in a Male-Dominated System

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hector Bravo.
Unhinged Chaos is now insession.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome back to our channel Warriors.
We are still growing.
Today, another banger for youguys.
We have a special guest today,a female former correctional
officer.
I'm glad we have her on theshow because normally it's
male-dominated.
Even the career field is maledominated, so it'll be good to
hear a perspective from a formerCEO who started her career in

(00:31):
2002 at Salinas Valley StatePrison and would eventually
transfer to SADF Substance AbuseTreatment Facility.
So today we have none otherthan Cynthia.
Welcome, cynthia.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Hi, how are you, Hector?
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Cool, I'm glad you're here.
I'm glad you were able to makethat transportation over here.
I'm really honored that youwere to do that.
You're welcome, thank you.
So where did you grow up at?

Speaker 1 (01:01):
I grew up in Fresno that's a good thing, that's a
good thing and attended Clovis.
It's that fine line betweenupper and kind of a which one's
a upper.
Clovis is like your La Jollaand your, okay, You're, you're,
you know.
I'm glad you let me know aboutthat boundary.
And then there's Fresno, whichis like one street of a boundary

(01:21):
, that just so where are you?

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Did you?

Speaker 1 (01:23):
grow up in Fresno or Clovis, both, because I went to
Clovis schools all my life.
But I grew up in Fresno, whichwas like one street of a
boundary over.
How did you get to the schoolBus?

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yes, yes, yes, were there other people from Fresno
that ended up going to Clovis,absolutely because of the
boundaries.
Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yes, so there's always like these little like
comments on was there commentson uh now on um instagram and
tiktok, like you know, peoplewho were raised in fresno and uh
say they're from clovis andokay, that's funny it's always a
thing.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
It's a thing, but yeah, cool.
At what time did it dawn on youthat you were going to join
Corrections?

Speaker 1 (02:10):
At a really early age , when I was in high school, I
was really interested in thebeauty business, so I was.
That was my goal is to somehowget involved.
I loved, you know, the singing,the arts and the whole fashion
industry, so I went as far astouring schools in LA, fitm and

(02:32):
all these things when I wasstill in high school Okay, wow.
Then after graduation, I endedup in beauty college and I
became a nail tech.
So at 18, 19, I had my licenseand back then the business was
thriving.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
What were you doing?
Manicures and pedicures, yes.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
And at 21, I opened up my own salon in Clovis and
had eight technicians tanning.
It was a full-on service salonWow.
But back then I didn't have mydaughter and I didn't have any
sort of obligation.
I was just young and doing well.
And so when I had my daughterat 28 years later, I was like,

(03:18):
okay, I got to do something alittle more solid.
I've got to make my foundationfor her, her foundation, our
foundation solid.
I need retirement, I need this,I need that.
So by that time I ended up inthat business for maybe 12, 13
years, like I said, at 33.

(03:38):
And it was about that time,when she was two or three, when
I said I need to make a career,change Something.
But I always loved school, Ialways loved studying.
The plan that I did just workedfor me at the moment.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Were you enjoying what you were doing?
Absolutely Okay.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
But my daughter came first, Absolutely.
So it's like what's going tohappen when I can't chase?
When you're self-employed, youare chasing money.
That's what you do you chasemoney.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
You're preaching to the choir right now.
Yeah, you're chasing, you'rehustling, you're grinding, yes,
every single day, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
You wake up and you know you got to make sure you
know, especially when you have achild.
So my mother said to me youknow you need to call your
cousin Mona, because she's a CEOat Pleasant Valley.
Okay, and she's been there likefive years.
Just call her.
You know, cindy, I think you'dbe good at it.
You have that personality, Ithink you'll be good at it.

(04:35):
And so I called her and shejust started me through the
process.
Her name is Mona Esparza andshe was like my kind of like my
little.
She took me under her wingMentor.
Yes, mentor and guided methrough the whole process as I
was going through.
So when I began to go throughthe process, that was in like 98

(04:57):
, 99.
Okay, my daughter was born in95.
So, yeah, 98, 99.
Um, my daughter was born in 95.
So, yeah, 98, 99.
Um, I decided to take one classat city because I didn't do the
high school in college like allmy friends did.
Right, they were like alreadygraduated from fresno state and
doing their little thing and Iwent to nail school and was just

(05:18):
kind of yeah, but doing well,just as well as they were you
know, but there was somethingmissing that I needed to to.
I needed to have more substanceand more experience to make
things happen and be better, youknow.
So I took a class at FresnoCity and it was like, it was
like creme five, it was likejuvenile delinquency or

(05:41):
something At that point.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
I know you said you had an artistic side to you.
You love the arts, you lovebeauty, but was there a
adrenaline seeking side?
To you still?

Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yes, Okay.
So I honestly was thinkingabout being a veterinarian
because I love animals, but thenI saw Berkeley and I'm like I'm
not going all the way toBerkeley.
That's a lot of work.
So I took the class and I didwell and I loved it.
And so I'm like I'm not goingall the way to Berkeley.
That's a lot of work.
So I took the class and I didwell and I loved it.
And so I'm like you know, and Iremember telling my parents,
which they're both gone now.
God bless them, rip.

(06:12):
But I told them, you know, Ijust don't see me going into a
career without school.
I've just never been like that.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Right.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
I feel like you need to have all the dynamics and the
logistics, all that behind yourcareer.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Now, was that based on you wanted to be prepared or
because that was the social norm?

Speaker 1 (06:32):
I wanted to be prepared.
Okay, that's good.
So I took the one class I did.
Well, that was 98 of fall 99, Ienrolled full time and started
the process of going through thedepartment.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
California Department of Corrections yes, without the
R CDC.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Okay.
Now, during that time I waspicked up as an intern at Fresno
Adult Probation and so theykept asking me to come back back
, like I do a semester, they saycome back.
So they gave me my office, Ihad my cards, I was literally a
PO for the adult field, but Iwas handling like 3000 cases of

(07:15):
misdemeanor throughout the wholeValley.
3000?
, 3000.
3000 misdemeanor cases of I'mtalking.
You know all.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Back then were computers prevalent, or was it
all paperwork at that?

Speaker 1 (07:26):
time there was a little bit of there was a lot of
paperwork, a lot of paperwork,a lot of paperwork, and so I did
that for like a year and a half, and, as I was going through
the hiring process, so I thegood thing was I learned a lot
of casework.
I learned how to read minuteorders.
I learned how to read minuteorders.
I learned how to write reportsto the court and write to the
judges.
I learned how to do so manythings in that year and a half.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
So long story short.
I ended up graduating and Ifailed my first background
because I had too many speedingtickets.
Oh same, I failed CHPs becausetoo many speeding tickets.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
And so I remember my background investigator calling
me and saying Cynthia, you're agreat candidate, but you got to
get rid of speeding tickets, andso why don't you just let these
kind of go?

Speaker 2 (08:19):
away.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah.
And so with my mentality andthe way I think, yeah, of course
I was a little bit frustrated,but I was thinking, well, now I
can just get school done Rightand not be trying to do both.
You know, so fast forward towhen I hit the cow and all that,

(08:42):
I was already done with citygetting ready.
I did a semester at FresnoState.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
For the crowd out there.
She was driving and she hit acow.
I was driving.
I hit a cow, an actual cow, areal cow yes.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
So when I finally passed my PAT that day I was
already.
I couldn't go to Corcoranbecause I'd already missed that
day as a Pi.
So when they called me forSalinas Valley, they allowed me
surprisingly to sit on it for aday.

(09:21):
I said can I think?

Speaker 2 (09:24):
about this, so they gave you an offer and you asked
them for more time.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
I asked them for one more day.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
And what did they say ?
They said okay.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Okay, there was only nine slots left, wow.
So I got off the phone and Iwent on my computer and I looked
at universities.
I was thinking about school.
Like I just register, you know,I just I need to know if I can
do school there and transfer myunits, and I did so I got into
CSUMB, which is CaliforniaUniversity of Monterey Bay.

(09:53):
I went to the academy,everything was all set.
I had it all worked outPart-time at Salinas Valley, go
to school, bring my daughterblah blah blah.
Well, about three weeks intothe academy they walked in and
said all of you are full timenow.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
So it changed my whole plan.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Was it difficult for you attending that academy with
a daughter?

Speaker 1 (10:19):
No, because I had full support from her father and
my parents.
Okay, that's a good thing, butwas it?

Speaker 2 (10:25):
difficult in the sense of like missing Absolutely
, missing Absolutely, andhomesickness and separation.
Four months.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Oh wow, it was the 16 weeks.
At that time it was In 2002, itwas 16 weeks, and so we made a
big calendar board, and everytime I'd come home, I put 16
weeks on.
There we put something and we'ddo like a project or something,
and I had my manicure and stufflicensed.
I still am licensed.
So on our weekends it was likewe're going to paint your nails,

(10:55):
do a pedicure, nice, and so.
But my plan was to take her upthere as soon as I graduated or
whatever, and figured out aplace to stay.
And back then, you knoweverybody was rooming with
everybody and you know I wasolder.
I'm 36 years old.
I wasn't going to be roomingwith a bunch of youngsters.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, that's right you mentioned you went to the
academy at the age of 36.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
I went to the academy at the age of 36.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Absolutely.
Do you feel that attending theacademy?

Speaker 1 (11:30):
at that age was more beneficial than a young
21-year-old.
If I'm going to look at my lifebecause it's hard to place that
on every single individual,because I know a lot of
23-year-olds that are really,really smart and know how to do
things you know who've doneeverything but for your
situation for my situation coolit was good.

(11:50):
I would have never been thattype to grow to graduate and go
go to college.
I would have got kicked out Iwould.
I was my mind, you know.
I was like let's hustle, let'sget self-employed, make some
money, and let's just move androll right right.
So that worked for me.
But you know, when you have aresponsibility you have to think
long-term.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
And it's not about you anymore, it's about that
child.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
So where was I at now ?

Speaker 2 (12:18):
You were talking about that you were.
They walked into the class andsaid you guys are all now
full-time.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
And now we're full-time.
So in my mind I'm like, oh no,I'm registered for school.
What am I going to do?
This is all now my whole plan,you know, because I really
wanted to get through school.
I'd already done one semesterat State, so I'm like I'm not
leaving this open, I've got tofinish, okay.
So I ended up when I report.

(12:46):
So I reported full time.
But the blessing out of it waswhen I got to Salinas Valley, I
ended up with weekends off and ajob in education.
Charlie Yard, education GP.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
H04 Education H-O-4?
.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Education, charlie, education level four Education
129 inmates.
And right away when I got tothe yard, I'd only been there
like maybe a week.
The sergeant approached me andhe said we have an officer who's
going to.
He got picked up to be, or he'sgoing to do, counseling time,

(13:25):
acting time as a counselor.
Would you like to fit, fill into be the education officer?
Okay, and you know, behind himfor four months.
So I was only on the, I wasonly on, like the, the yard yard
, for maybe I don't know a fewweeks, and during those few
weeks you don't even know,hector, I was like Lord, why am

(13:47):
I even here?
I walked into that yard.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Before we jump into touching down at Selena's.
It seemed like you're verymeticulous, goal-oriented, and
do you not like curveballs?
Like when they told you it'sgoing to be full-time?
Was that like?
Did that?
Was it?

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Well, yeah, because I already had it like a very,
very OCD number one.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Okay, yeah, so like meticulous, that's a good thing,
though.
Like to be fixated on a goal.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
And so, but I made it work, Correct, I made it work.
I ended up doing one semesterthere.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
And I got like Salinas.
I was full-time in school, andI had my daughter up there by
then.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
No, you have good work, ethic.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
It was a juggle.
I think back now and I'm likehow did I do it?
But you know what, when it'smeant to be, and you're doing
all the right things and you aremaking sacrifices and you are
thinking about your family first, there's a way that the Lord
just steps in and he makes itall work Absolutely.
There's a way that the Lord juststeps in Absolute 100%, and so
I had people really coming inand helping me like, hey, I know
a babysitter in this part oftown so I would get up in the

(14:49):
morning, drive my daughter toschool, head down the 101, get
to Salinas, get off.
But you know what?
It was a whole different.
I loved going there.
I loved it and I loved goingthere I loved it.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
So Salinas Valley has always had the reputation of
being extremely violent, rockingand rolling busy.
So you get there and you saidyou landed on Charlie Yard.
You know what I recently texteda friend recently.
He's like yeah, I started onCharlie Yard over there, level 4
, gp 180.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
When you walked into a prison yard and you saw
everybody in blue, what were youthinking?
Why was I there?
I'm a female.
Well, it was mixed emotions.
I was proud that I made itthere, number one.
I was flexing a little bitbecause, okay, I'm a female, I'm
here, I did it, I'm 36.
And not very many people at myage at that time would be able

(15:50):
to handle all the different.
But you know, some of us arewired that way Correct and some
of us it's hard to.
You can't become that.
You're either that I believe inor you're not.
I mean, some can grow to beinto that.
I don't know.
I don't know how to explain it,but I'm always been very, very

(16:10):
career oriented and goaloriented.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
So for me to take that leap, but you're walking
into a jungle now, a concretejungle.
Were you very well aware of thepossibilities that could happen
?

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yes, I was.
I was aware of it, but itdidn't really.
When it came face to face withit, it didn't intimidate me, I
was okay with it.
That's a good thing.
Some people are built like that.
Yeah, my third day at Salinas,I was involved in 128 Crip Blood
Riot and I saw two people whowere shaking hands, going to the
chow hall, stabbing each otheron the way back, and it was just

(16:48):
exactly how I said it and itwas like from here to that wall
and I was just Was that?

Speaker 2 (16:54):
on.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
Charlie Yard yes, and they were coming back into my
building.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Can you explain to us what are some of the things you
hear or see during a giantmelee like that?
All right, sounds pepper spray.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Back in those days we had a lot more.
We were able to utilize a lotmore pyrotechnics.
We had a lot more things also.
We had triple chasers.
We had all those differentbombs, and they took all that
away from us.
They started to take them andeliminate.
By the time I got to SADF, wedidn't have any of that.
We had the .40 and your mini.

(17:33):
We were still with the .38revolver and all that, but even
the impact in munitions, allthat stuff was just changing,
and so it was completelydifferent than Salinas.
Salinas, I felt like we had allthe tools, but even they
started to kind of pull thoseout when I left.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
So let me ask you this how important are use of
force options as a correctionalofficer?

Speaker 1 (18:02):
You have to know them like the back of your head.
I still know mine.
Yeah, I know them like the backof your head.
I still know mine.
Yeah, I know my toolbox.
There you go and when you carryyourself with like I said, you
come in and you're smart,smarter.
I don't want to say you'resmarter, there's a lot of.
I have so many supervisors whodidn't go to college and they're

(18:25):
freaking good cops, okay.
I'm not saying that, but as afemale, for me, this is what I
this was going to bring out thebest in me, Absolutely Okay.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
So I forgot.
So right now you mentionedtoolbox.
I haven't heard that in aminute.
Can you explain to us what aresome tools that would be in a
correctional officer's toolbox?
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
So um number one, it's going to be your command
presence.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Oh my God, I already love where this is going.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Your command presence is so important because when an
inmate or anyone sees you, itdoesn't even matter if you're,
you know if you're in yourfacility.
You have a presence about youthat is professional.
You know how to talk, speak andcommunicate with these inmates.
You build a rapport, you areempathetic, not sympathetic.

(19:19):
There's all these little thingsthat you have to remember Facts
.
They are not your friends.
However, they are a human beingand you have to show that their
life is significant.
You know they're here and ourjob is to make sure that not
only that we're okay, but thatthey're okay and that you know

(19:41):
it's safety and security forourselves, the public and the
inmates.
Facts Between each other, thewhole, all the way around.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Right, it's almost like a profession it's a
profession yeah, absolutely.
I think we've gotten away fromthat, though or the mindset yeah
, it's a career, it's aprofession.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Absolutely.
Presence is on point and itallows them to look at you in
actually a professional.
They treat you different,correct.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
They do and they respect you.
Different, as opposed to being,you know, wrinkly uniform.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Looking like a sack of shit.
Excuse my French, but they cantell.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
They can tell your grooming standards is so
important, right?
So your command presence.
And then, of course, yourverbal, your verbal judo,
whatever they call it, yourverbal communication, absolutely
your verbal judo, whatever.
However, they change thevocabulary to where you don't
speak at a person, you speak toa person.
And when you speak to a person,you have way more.

(20:45):
You have way more control of asituation and you get a lot more
better results than to starttalking at them.
And that even goes for betweenthe COs and the administration,
your superiors, because I've hador even at homes, but
relationships Wherever Were you,with their children, absolutely
.
So you know, and me and I I'm atalker and I like to say what I

(21:07):
got to say, so sometimes I gotto stop myself and go, you know
what.
That wasn't the correct way tocome out, that to say that or to
speak that.
So by the time that I got intothe department I had my
education and I knew, you know,a lot of penal code.
I knew a lot, you know, and Iknew a lot of penal code.
I knew a lot and I studied alot of serial killers and did
all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Like who Like Jeffrey Dahmer.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
My professor at Fresno State was Professor
Hickey Professor Hickey and DrScrappett and they were like
psych of crime professors whohad been like my one professor,
dr Scrappock.
She was at Ted Bundy'sexecution in Florida.

(21:50):
She was there sat on it.
So I just learned so much and,and of course I love school, so
I appreciated going through theforensics and learning all that
stuff.
So, anyhow, back to the toolbox.
The command presence You'reverbal, now of course we all

(22:10):
know.
When that fails, you startgoing into your use of force,
like your upper.
You know which is going to beyour physical restraints.
That would be next, I believe,if they're not going to obey.
You know, right Right, yourphysical restraints.
That would be next, I believe,if they're not going to obey
Right Right your physicalrestraints and then you go into
the less lethal and then you gointo lethal and, however, our

(22:33):
goal is to stay at the commandpresence and the judo right.
Our goal as an officer is tostay within those first two
without escalating.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
That's our goal, but it doesn't always work out that
way.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
But to de-escalate right.
That's what we're supposed todo yeah.
So I just learned that me beingconsistent and the way I am
right now speaking is the way Iwas in the prison.
I was always very, very I leftall my stuff at home as much as
I could.
Yeah as much as I could, yeah,and I always follow through with

(23:13):
the things that I communicatedwith the inmates that I was
going to do.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
How important is that ?
How important is it if acorrectional officer says
something?
How important is it that theystick to their word and or
explain why it didn't happen?

Speaker 1 (23:27):
It's your survival.
It's your, because inmates donothing all day except watch you
Facts.
They know when you and yourpartners don't get along.
They know when you're lazy, Yep.
They know.
If you went out the nightbefore and you're all hungover,
Yep.
They know if you're out thenight before and you're all hung
over, Yep.

(23:48):
They know if you're fightingwith your they.
They know everything you know.
And so when you can come in andbe consistent, yeah, we all
have bad days and there's timeswhen I would just blow up and
say stuff, but you know what?
They'd give me a pass.
They're like you know what, Gohome and take a nap.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
We know it's.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, but it's very important to know all that stuff
because that's what's going tosave you, and I believe that the
more consistent you are, itspreads.
It's contagious too, you knowit can like.
When I worked on Charlie Yardat SADF, I worked in the upper

(24:27):
yard, GP level four.
I was the control booth officerfor three years.
I never used my weapon oncebecause we had that building
down so good.
It was me.
It was myself, Officer Magallon, who's a female who had a lot
of time, and Officer Reyna.
They were my floor cops and wehad a very good work.

(24:52):
We knew how to run thattogether.
They taught me, though I wasnew, and they taught me.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
There's nothing better than when all three
partners are on the same page,or even when all the watches are
on the same page.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yes, and it was just a good building.
Partners are on the same page,or even when all the watches are
on the same page.
Yes, and it was just a goodbuilding.
And then I finally bit out um,and I went um, I don't know, I
was looking for different daysoff for school, I think, or
something, and um, but as soonas we all left that building, it
started going off.
It started going off, it'sfunny how that works.

(25:25):
No, bad, like really bad.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
What would be some I mean for the newer correctional
officers watching that do notknow how to interact with an
inmate or even carry themselves?
Let's say an inmate walked upto you and said hey, co, when is
the packages coming, or when issuch and such, but you don't
know the answer.
What would be a good response?

Speaker 1 (25:50):
I would probably just ask the inmate you know, like
you know, what is your situation.
Is it your package?
Is it everybody's package?
You?

Speaker 2 (25:57):
know what's going on.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
If it's yours specifically, then I'll dig
deeper to see what's happening.
But if it's everybody's, youknow, then because some of these
inmates, they just want to getclose to you and talk to you and
ask you stuff, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I'm glad you pointed thatout too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I'm gladyou pointed that out too.
They already know the answer.
They're just wanting to be youknow stupid, a thorn in your
side, as I would say yeah, yeah,and then you just you know, but

(26:21):
I was always very, very youknow, I wanted to go to work and
just handle everything and gohome and know that I did the
best that I could do, andsometimes I would just be so
burned out and disappointedbecause around you you want
people to be like you and worklike you, and that doesn't
happen.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Well, it's a big giant agency.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Well, I'm talking about just like in your unit,
right?
Because in the EOP units whereI did my last five years in the
EOP unit at SADF, there's sixofficers that cover that unit.
You have four EOP officers forclusters A, b, c, d and then you

(27:06):
have the control panel, two Ineach cluster.
There's an office where eachofficer is supposed to sit and
deal with their inmates.
Where each officer is supposedto sit and deal with their
inmates.
Well, guess what?

Speaker 2 (27:16):
They all sit at one table.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Nobody wanted to sit out and nobody would sit in
their office.
I think there was maybe mypartner, dallas Race, who I love
.
He would sit in.
He retired about a year beforeme.
He had already done timemilitary time, so he was done
Older man, like 60-something.
He would sit in his office andso the inmates would see that

(27:37):
they're like you know, you sitin your office with all of us in
here, with the grill gate shutand your door open.
I said that's because I haveconfidence that you know I
wasn't afraid to be in there.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
And if one of them would, hey guys, consider
becoming a patron, where youwill get first exclusive dibs on
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Keep pushing forward.
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Speaker 1 (28:14):
I'd be like, hey, sit down, let's talk what's going
on.
You know we'll be, you know I'mlike, all right, well, this is
what we're going to do, and ifit doesn't happen tomorrow or
the next day, please remind me.
Yeah, but they knew that I hadbeen a counselor.
I mean, I had acting time as acounselor.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Oh, you did by the time you got to SADF.
So before we jump to SADF, youmentioned.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
EOPs.
What are some of thedifferences you noticed between
GP inmates and EOP inmates?
Whining, crying it's horrible,it's horrible.
Especially, the EOP inmateswere not in our level of care.
They were too.
They should not have been inour level of care.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Some of those inmates Should they have been in a
higher?

Speaker 1 (29:05):
level of care.
They should have been like atAtascadero, like at Ash,
absolutely.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
So they were legitimately mentally unstable,
and I say legitimately becauseI've seen a bunch of fakers in
my time.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yes, there were a lot of them that were pulling ruses
and they were malingering.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
I'm not a doctor, but I know what malingering is.
Yes, yeah, yes absolutely sothese guys were off the rockers
it was horrible.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
It got to the point towards my last few, like my
last year in that building, towhere, um, I'd be walking you,
you know, I don't know.
Have you ever been to Sative?

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Never.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Okay, it's huge.
It's like a mile long.
The prison is seven yards.
Seven yards, it's A through.
F, a through F is the designlike a and it just goes straight
across, straight across, andthey have two entrances with the
administration way over here.
So, in order to get to yourbuilding, different parking lots
, yeah, or?
same parking lot, but oneentrance.
So you got to drive all the way, pull in through the guard

(29:59):
shack, show your ID, blah, blah,blah, which they never did
before until I don't know, allof a sudden.
So then you drive all the wayin park.
If you're going to be on thisside, ABCD, then you park on
this parking lot.
You so on this side, ABCD, thenyou park on this parking lot.
You know the west, there'sWestgate and Eastgate, Okay.
And then, once you get in yourgate, you got to walk another

(30:19):
quarter of a mile to get to yourbuilding.
Well, I would hear the alarmsgoing off already on Frank Yard
thinking mother, I wouldn't evenput my lunch bag down.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
What did those alarms sound like?

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Like the police sirens, or like the buzzing Boo,
okay.
Okay, now, at Salinas Valleythey're different ones, so you
kind of knew where they camefrom by the way they chirped.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
They're all the same at SADF, so you don't know where
it's coming from.
Yeah, okay, so, but I alreadyknew there was someone in the
hole when I heard that.
I always knew there was goingto be somebody a suicide in a
holding tank in program so Iwould go in and I would just
sign in and out and go where amI taking this guy?
It got to that point.
I already knew I was going tobe gone at TTA somewhere on some

(31:04):
.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Because an inmate was making suicidal allegations.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yes, it got yes.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
Three a day?
At least three a day.
What year was this?

Speaker 1 (31:12):
2000,.
Right before I retired 16, 14,15, 16.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
Man, I feel like we missed a big, giant gap, though,
because we went straight fromSalinas Valley all the way to
Sadef.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
Well, because Sadef, remember, I told you I was
working in the control boothwith my two partners.
Okay, so that was at Sadef.
At Sadef, yeah, when I got to.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
SADF, yes, so when you got to SADF, did you
experience a culture change orculture shock?
Absolutely?
What were some of them?

Speaker 1 (31:40):
And I believe the reason why I kind of left out a
lot of Salinas is because wewere always locked down for like
a year.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
I'm talking locked down, like you'd show up to work
for six months.
Okay, this is what happenedwith me when they put me in
education.
I started searching.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
I found within one week like I don't know, eight
weapons.
Probably good ones, too Goodones.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah, In education we were slammed.
One day I started searching onmy own.
I'm like wow.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Were you finding them just in common areas?
Okay.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
Like there would be a poster on the wall.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Okay, and I'd be like .

Speaker 1 (32:23):
oh, and then you know , like the file cabinets that
have wheels, like in all theeducation rooms, they were
putting them under there.
So I was going under therefinding them, they were taping
them up.
So what they ended up doing istaking all the wheels off of
everything.
So it sat on the ground andthey couldn't put them under
there anymore.
So I don't know if you'refamiliar with Hedgepeth what?

(32:43):
Is that, captain Hedgepeth.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
No.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
He was my captain back then, salaya, any of those
guys?
Okay.
So they called me in and theywere like Villaria, are you
planning these weapons, becauseyou're finding a lot of them?

Speaker 2 (32:55):
I said, well, so you were actually, you know,
disposing of them perdepartmental policy.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Absolutely, I was writing a report.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
They made a book, okay, I might have known
somebody that would put them inhis pocket and take them home
and throw them away.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
No, Do you know what they did?
They ended up doing a big, hugesearch because they were like,
if all these weapons are here,they've got to be all over
everywhere else.
They found 200.
No, they ended up finding 250weapons.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Of course they did.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
I can guarantee you, to this day they made a binder
and I started it apparently withall my weapons, and then it
just kept going Of course theydid Salinas.
Valley.
So it got slammed for like ayear and then I left during that
time.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
That's why I'm saying that was pretty much you know.
Let me ask you this you'refighting all these weapons.
Are you thinking to yourselflike, god damn, this could
possibly be used absolutely yesyou ever find any bone crushers,
big giant steel?

Speaker 1 (33:51):
yeah, yeah, like almost sword looking they were
just like, and you know, I wasnew, I was young, I mean not
young, you were probably just aneager beaver, like crime
fighter, like finding all thisgood stuff.
Well, I mean, you know, that'sgood.
So that was my experience thereand I loved our training because
, okay, so, back then we hadbulldogs on Delta Yard.

(34:17):
How was that?
Well, they got attacked by thewhites.
They were always getting jumpedand so they moved them.
Nobody wanted them, so theymoved them and I guess they
ended up at Pleasant Valley, Idon't know.
Okay so, but back then, if Ihad anybody disrespect me, my

(34:37):
partners selena's valleypartners were the best.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Good, now we're going to talk about this.
So you were a female right?
Um, I know what it's like to bein a culture working as a
correction officer and having afemale partner disrespected.
Were you ever put in situationswhere you were disrespected and
it was handled?

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Absolutely.
I don't know if it's okay forme to say this, but Just go
ahead and say it and I'lldetermine whether it's going to
stick or not.
Okay, you know you got Bloodsand Crips inside the facilities
that they house together nowbecause they've taken their
stuff off the street.
Back then that's old news.
But now they're in there.

(35:22):
I've always told people that ifI was going to be a Blood or a
Crip or be around them, I wouldbe around a Blood.
Crips have no structure.
Around a blood Crips have nostructure.
They have no sort ofdisciplinary within their, their
you know, within their gangs ortheir disruptive gang.
They're not even a prison gang,stg2 or some shit.

(35:44):
Yeah, they're.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
STG2.
And when?

Speaker 1 (35:45):
it comes to, you know , indecent exposure.
When it comes to, you know,indecent exposure being
disrespectful to a femaleofficer, calling you names, cat
calling, just whatever you wantto do, no one checks them, no
one does anything, they're just.
That was my experience.

(36:06):
Now, the bloods I gotdisrespected from, a blood on
Charlie Yard, I want to say itwas.
This was at SADF, though SADF,and I had a whole, I had a whole
whole building full of bloods,you know, and the one
disrespected me and yeah, he gotdealt with accordingly.

(36:30):
He got dealt with and when, byhis own people, by his own
people all I know is it was myRDO.
That day happened.
I remember.
You know you always saysomething on the PA just because
I was the control booth officer.
Yeah, it was right there in myface in the shower, okay, and
you know you say what you haveto say.

(36:50):
But nobody did nothing.
Like at Salinas Valley, had Ireported that, they would have
went and got him out of theshower Absolutely Naked and
probably cuffed him up andwalked him across the yard naked
on purpose.
So everybody knew what he did.
But Sadef wasn't like that,sadef was very like.
They didn't, you know, theydidn't really do anything.

(37:13):
They came in, they talked tohim.
They, you know, they put him inhandcuffs.
It was very, very peacefulwhich is fine.
Sadef yes.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Did he go to the hole ?

Speaker 1 (37:24):
Well, what I remember , this is what I remember.
They took him out and I went onmy RDOs.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
I had the count, his counselor at that time call me
and say how do you feel about usbringing him back to the
building or putting him in adifferent building?
Exactly, yeah, well, it didn'teven matter what I said, because
they had already taken care ofhim.
Their own, their own, hadalready taken care.
Okay, you see what I'm saying.
So when, I got back I didn'tknow where he was, but then the

(37:56):
inmate told me I didn't reallyget into any much further than
that.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
No, no, that's cool and I totally.
I'm tracking, they're trackingtoo, don't even trip.
So the reason I bring it up isbecause when we started the
department, indecent exposure ormasturbation within decent
exposure was a shoeable offense.
You go to ad sick, you go tothe hole.
And now, in beautiful 2025,they no longer go to the hole?

Speaker 1 (38:18):
They do not.
No.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
As a female officer, former female officer, how do
you feel about that policychange?

Speaker 1 (38:24):
I've always felt that that sort of behavior in front
of me, that to me that is a somesort of assault battery,
whether it's mental.
So I always told them, if Iever have anyone do that in
front of me, that is some sortof assault battery, whether it's
mental.
So I always told them, if Iever have anyone do that in
front of me, I will spray themand I don't care what you guys
do.
That is affecting me up here,whether he's putting hands on me

(38:44):
, and it's just that low insult.
You can't get any lower thanthat to a female in a prison.
It's just.
You can call me every name inthe book, but when you start
doing that, right, so theydidn't really have any sort of
repercussion, any sort of, youknow, any sort of.

(39:05):
They weren't doing anything.
Write a report.
Write them up, Cynthia.
Write them up, villareal, why?
I mean, I'll write them up.
But what are you going to do?
And it got so unsafe there.
This was my I'm going to.
Can I share with you my lastexperience there and this is
what made me finally leave.
Okay, after I decided to leavethe mental health yard on Frank

(39:32):
Yard, I only had one more yearleft.
I didn't know that at the time,though, okay, my knee was
already giving me problems, I'dalready had a surgery, so I had
planned on doing at least 20.
I only ended up doing 17, but Iplanned on doing 20, but I had
the age right, that's a goodthing.
So I was kind of I could havemade my own decision.
So about when I finally wasdone with the mental health

(39:58):
because I was starting to get mycholesterol, my blood pressure,
it was just it was all bad.
I was drinking a lot.
I was, like you know, yellingat everybody, fucking everyone
at Burger King or wherever.
Where's my fucking drink you?

Speaker 2 (40:11):
know I was all mad all the time.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
You know my daughter's like you need to
leave mom Now, was that yourbehavior?

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Was that your normal behavior?

Speaker 1 (40:17):
No, I mean not, not like I mean my normal behavior
is a little quirky, but it's notlike and did you not feel good?

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Was that conflicting?

Speaker 1 (40:25):
with you.
Yes, absolutely, that's yeah,and it was conflicting with my
family members and my friend,like they were like Cindy, this
is not you, you're usually veryjovial, you know, like well you
know these mental health peopleand I was up until those last
four years.
So I decided to bid out andthat was at the end of 2020.

(40:49):
Oh sorry, 2018.
Yeah, 18, 19, 18.
I did a year in Bravo 1, whichis a level 2 GP Dorms, gym Dorms
, not the gym, the dorm.
You've got the sections withthe big grill gate that
separates them and there's bunkseverywhere.

(41:11):
So is it a dorm setting or arethey in cells Dorm setting?
They're not in cells.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
They're on bunk beds.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Wow, it's A section, b section, c section and there's
a big grill gate.
There's two big grill gatesthat divide A and B and C and D.
Okay, I mean B and C.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
And how many per section Approximately?

Speaker 1 (41:39):
I can't really remember, maybe 80.
It's a big dorm.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
I mean there's a lot of inmates in there.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
They're all over the place.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
Gun coverage or no gun coverage?

Speaker 1 (41:48):
No gun coverage.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
Because it's level two.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Okay, so I've been in there for a swatch Thinking no,
no, no, Because my partnerMoreno he was a really good cop
at the time Well, Mr Moreno,when I got in there, decided to
always do hospital coverage.
So he was always gettingredirected, so I was always
getting stuck with the overtime.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Well, during this time, well, in those dorms,
inmates tend to tint up becauseand I don't, I really can't kind
of blame them I know it'sdangerous for us and them- yeah.
But when you got like somebodywith the fan on and they're
whatever or yapping, they woulddo it for privacy.
I get it.
However, they're not supposedto be tenting up, correct.

(42:35):
But on first watch, I don'tcare if you're tenting up,
because I'm not going to pullyour tent down at 2 in the
morning and startle you when Igot a bunch of inmates just
there sleeping and you have towalk all the way back with a
flashlight.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
During count.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yes, and then you have another officer downstairs
and your gates.
You've popped the fire doorsand you go through together,
you're making sure and you'vegot to shut that big gate.
That's all sketchy, it's verysketchy.
So I was only in there for ayear and I had a supervisor who
would come in and say you havegot to rip down, you've got to

(43:10):
stop those, you've got to takethe tents down.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
Was this a newly promoted supervisor or somebody
with some experience?
Some?

Speaker 1 (43:16):
experience Just a female.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
And, as a female, it just wasn't safe.
I felt the unsafeness Right.
You know, what I mean.
I felt it.
So let's get back to theindecent exposure.
My last, probably two weeks inthere I did a count it was like
my 3 o'clock count or whateverand I would always take the top,

(43:46):
just because that was mybuilding and I would allow my
overtime to do the bottom.
It's easier and especially ifit was a female like you, go
ahead and take the bottom, I'lltake the top.
I got back to the very back ofA section and there's like one,
two, three, four, five rows ofbunks.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
So it's way in the back.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
It's dark.
It's dark and I went to flashmy light on and there was this
black dude masturbating.
And I went to flash my light onand there was this black dude
masturbating.
And I'm talking, we're closerthan me and you are, and he's
completely naked, and I didn'treact.
I was just in my mind.
I was like I can say somethingand I can get jumped right here

(44:33):
in the corner.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Yeah, it's a fucked up spot to be in.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Or I can be safely removed myself from the
situation, continue counting andthen figure out what I'm going
to do when I get, you know, thisdone.
So, um, I wrote him up and inthe morning when it, when we did
the the um shift change, I toldmy second watch partners and I
told my clerk because he was myclerk and he was a really good

(44:58):
clerk, black man, you know andhe did everything and I shared
with him and I think that he hada talk with them, but I had
already decided to leave.
But situations like that that Ibelieve that supervisors just
get so complacent, that Ibelieve that supervisors just
get so complacent Well, everyonecan get complacent at any time,
but you start to forget thatthese inmates can't hurt you,

(45:20):
you know.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
I'm pretty sure she knew what she was asking of you.
There's some fuckingsupervisors that are just
assholes.
I'm not saying that that personis.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Well, okay.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
But I've seen examples.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
I've seen instances where they're doing too much
stay in your office and let medo my job.
You know, and I was a good copbecause I did enough training
and education that were I wouldblock the inmates.
Let me talk to the sergeant.
No, you talk to me.
I probably know more than yoursergeant.
Right so tell me what you need.

(45:55):
Well, I have milestones, I needthis, I need that.
I said I'll take care of it.
I can find that out for you.
Let me just run your number andI'll do it, because I can look
up everything.
And so that little bit ofknowledge that I took from
probation school counseling,being raised with a lot of heart

(46:16):
and like you know what Cindyand my mom was like, that you
know, don't come home fromschool if you're bullied and get
beat up because you need to goback and beat them up.
I was raised kind of like youknow, like that, and we're
Portuguese.
My mom was full-bloodedPortuguese and we just have kind
of like that in our blood right.

(46:36):
So as long as, as well as mycousins who were all I had three
at Kalinga there's only oneleft now but the two that were
there first, mona, esparza andLydia they were really really
like helpful.
You know, if I got myself in asituation like you know, I call

(47:06):
them what do you do and what doI do, and so, um, then, as you
got closer to having more time,then you start to kind of really
start seeing all the you knowall the stuff.
Like I remember during blockstraining at Salinas Valley they
said don't you dare even try topromote until you got at least
seven years in you don't knownothing yet.
Then I get to SADF and they'relike two-year cops.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
I'm like who brought their son to work.
Who is this guy?
He looks like he just rolled,like he's 12.
And they're like becomingsergeants.
And then they end up on youryard and you're trying to run
your building and they're inthere running.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
They don't know how to do it.
They're becoming wardens,they're becoming associate
directors, directors Aftertwo-year promotion.
Two-year promotion, two-yearpromotion never worked the line
and now they're trying to tellpeople what to do.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
No, you can't, you can't.
I don't see how anybody wouldeven want to have a job, at that
, without working in a line.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Ego.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
Status.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Status I'm better than you mentality, or I think
I'm better than you mentality.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Because, like Ron Davis, when I was at Salinas he
was there.
He had just left there when Igot there.
Then he came to Sative.
It's like I kind of, you know,I didn't really know him that
well at Salinas, I don't think Ireally knew him at all.
But I know that when he came toSative he didn't have that much
time and he was atransportation sergeant and then

(48:31):
he went to, he just kept going,going, going higher and then he
married my really good friendhe did.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
You just mentioned Ron Davis and my blood pressure
just literally spiked up.
I hope my workman's calm doctoris watching that, but that just
goes to show you how this jobaffects you.
You mentioned Ron Davis and Ifucking twitched Because I had
an interaction with him while Iwas a lieutenant at Donovan and
one thing he said was we are nolonger able to put inmates in

(48:56):
handcuffs.
If they tell us they don't wantto be put in handcuffs, okay.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
So my question is I see, when I left the department
there was probably like my gosh,I'm not even like 10?
10 officers' kids that wererolling up and I'm like why
would you want your child towork here, or why would you even
encourage?
I don't know.
And I at this time, now I'm notsaying 10, 15, I'm not saying

(49:23):
years ago, but now I don't.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
So in your career beginning in 2002 at Salinas
Valley State Prison, whatchanges did you see within the
department?
Which direction did thedepartment go?

Speaker 1 (49:37):
It went to being a little more inmate, friendly or
trying to make that R reallystick.
And I found that when I workedin probation by dealing with
just the misdemeanors andlearning the casework and seeing
you know the files and therecidivism on like a child

(49:58):
molester or rehabilitation forchild, there is none Correct,
there isn't because 45 caliber.
But yeah, I mean, you knowpeople like well, let's do this
and do that now because it's uphere.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
It's not down, it's not anywhere, it's here.
So until you can get this out,it's like a sick dog that you
put down.
Yeah, but I did start findingthat the harder you worked, it
didn't even matter anymore.
It really didn't matter.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
No, no.
The more work that you did, themore you got rewarded with hard
work.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
I was having captains come up to me and ask me how I
should redo the inmate programbecause I was a senior.
Everybody bit out.
I was the only senior cop inthere left towards the end, and
so I was pretty much runningthat whole building by myself.

(50:57):
I mean, as far as the EOPs,Medlines, Chow Run property,
where's my books?
Where's my this?
Where's my KOPs?
Where's this?

Speaker 2 (51:10):
It was just.
It was just.
At what point in your careerdid you realize that you knew
more than some of your managersand supervisors?

Speaker 1 (51:18):
I think at that time during those last well, I mean
you pick up on little thingshere and there along the way?
Yeah, you do, because, likewhen I was a counselor and I was
reading reports, I'm like thisperson doesn't know how to spell
.
Yeah, Like there's supposed tobe a period right here and
you're not supposed to say,you're not supposed to use slang
when you write a report.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
You're supposed to speak, you know, and write block
letters.
You know you write.
I don't know.
I took report writing so incollege.
So I just I would read thesereports and I'm like they sound
like they're just talking.
They're just you know, but theywould never pick me up as a
counselor.
But they sure wanted me when itwas time to.
Let's talk about that.
I don't.

(51:59):
When did you begin acting as acounselor?
When I got to, I didn't act.
At Now, let me just hold on.
Really quick Rewind.
If I would have stayed atSalinas, I came home because of
my daughter, because she missedher dad, and you know they were
such a great support.
So I came home and I thought,you know what, I'll finish at

(52:22):
Fresno State, which I did.
So that was the reason I cameback, just to let you know.
That was what started it.
And then I followed.
So I don't remember where I was.
I'm sorry, I'm like all overthe place.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
I had asked you when did you begin acting?
When I got, and then you saidyou went to SADF you.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
When did you begin um acting?
When I got, said you went tosatif.
When I went, okay, if I was atsalinas I'd probably be a higher
up, they really liked me there.
But I came, you know, and right, to be a counselor there and to
be involved at that time wasamazing, you know.
We had a great.
we had a great.
I think his name was lamarck.
He was our um warden.
I don't know Lamarck, but wewould come in on Thanksgiving
and holidays and he would do atevery entrance well, there was

(53:04):
only a smaller prison.
He had a whole Thanksgivingmeal for us and I'm not talking
cheap.
Catered yeah, that's what's up.
Catered for all of us who hadto work.
They were just.
It was good.
I don't know, it was just agood place to work.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
I felt safe.
Did you enjoy going to work?

Speaker 1 (53:24):
I loved working at Selena.
I was bummed when I came homeand I knew I could have promoted
there a lot more.
But when I got to SADF it was awhole different thing and I
started to get discouraged.
I started to get disappointedbecause they had their own
little you know whatever goingon over there.
And then when they found outyou were from Salinas, they

(53:44):
would look at us like that'swhat I was going to say.
They thought we were allknow-it-alls.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
Were they fond of outsiders, Meaning people that
transferred in from otherinstitutions?

Speaker 1 (53:54):
They were but they would, Because my group had a
lot of officers that transferfrom Pelican Bay.
We had some Pelican Bay SalinasValley that touched down to
Sadef.
Yes, Wow, when that group camein to transfer, there was

(54:14):
Pelican Bay, Salinas.
It was all these people thatcame down from prisons like that
and we were like what is goingon here?

Speaker 2 (54:22):
And I'm sure you guys and the Pelican Bay guys were
like man.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
This place is freaking.
This is from Disneyland I got.
I don't remember.
Somebody was on their phone.
I was a control booth officeron Charlie Yard and this is
before I became a permanent.
This is when I was bouncingaround, you know, at SADF.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
Because remember I was at SADF for a little bit,
Then I went into the Charlie SixControl.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
For my first bid.
But during that other time Iwas kind of bouncing around and,
yeah, it was, it was.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
No, I understand, because there's a lot of people
that go from Sentinella andCalipat.
They go to RJD Donovan and it'sa oh my God.
They realize they made amistake instantly.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Some guy wouldn't get off the phone and at Salinas
Valley I just shut down thewhole program.
I go get off the phone, I shutthe phone off and tell everyone
to lock it up, and no one wouldcare and we're like chilling for
the rest of the day.
I tried to do that at SADF andI got yelled at.
I go lock it up and everybody'slike lock it up.
And I go, lock it up, get offthe phone and all you lock it up
and I start opening the door.

(55:44):
And a problem, we don't do thathere, so they call me and
they're like we don't do thathere.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
And I'm like, well, we did it over there and I'm
gonna do it here because thisguy wasn't listening to me.
Um, yeah, it's hard.
It's hard to because it'sconflicting.
It's like, hey, fuck, I guess Igotta go along with this
program, but I know what theright thing to do is.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
But fuck, I'm here yeah, so, and and I around that
time as I was back at FresnoState, so I was doing all my and
it was kind of cool because Iwas, I'd always been really
interested in gangs and you knowand all that kind of stuff.
So I would kind of pick theirbrain and they liked it because
they knew that I was in schoolwith the inmates and I would,
you know, kind of question themabout certain things and if I

(56:21):
was doing like a research andpaper or something like that, I
would question them and picktheir brain and get like real
answers, you know.
And so I did well in schoolbecause I was already like in
the department.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
And it helped both angles of my career.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
So when you first started your career, all the
gang leaders, Mexican mafiamembers, nuestra familia, AB,
they were all in the shoe.
Were you there at SADF?
Did any members land at thatinstitution?

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Popeye.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Popeye was there when you were there.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
He got taken care of a while back.
Yeah, he was running stuff.
And then we got somebody elsethat came on BR when I was
telling you, when I was on thatBR that one year.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
I can't remember his name though who kind of showed
up and then Popeye ended upgetting.
He was done with like a coupleyears ago I think.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Did you notice a change in the inmates?
Did you notice an inmate changein their behavior when the laws
started to change AB 109, prop57, lifers started going home
Did you notice a difference?

Speaker 1 (57:27):
in the violence.
Well, I noticed that because Iwas counseling at that time.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
And you know, when you've been celled up in your
own little private room withanother cellie or single cell
which that was another thing AtSleaze Valley you had to beg for
a single cell.
We didn't just single cell youbecause you were like.
But then you get to SADF andI'm like I want a single cell
because somebody's talking to meat night I don't know who it is
, because I'm hearing voicesOkay, you can be single cell
voices.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
Okay, you can be single sound.
I'm like what, what?
I don't think it was just sad.
If, though, what I'm?
I think during that time frame,the state was already changing
statewide.
Everything you're talking aboutwas already starting to be
happening at other institutionsas well yeah, is what I'm
starting to believe, yeah now,some institutions are more wild
than others, like donovan isfucking doing their own thing.
But you're right, I hear whatyou're saying.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
And it made it really hard for counselors because
when they did that whole 109realignment, like I said, when
you're in a cell with your otherbuddy or whatever, and you've
been there for a while and nowthey changed the points, and now
you're a level two and nowyou've got to go to a dorm.
Oh no, I'm going to go get introuble.
I'm staying right here on theyard is what they're thinking.

(58:39):
You understand what I'm saying100%.
So you're pulling your hat as acounselor because you can't
catch up, because every timethat you have to like you know,
every time that you have towrite like send them the whole,
you got to reintegrate them intothe yard with the committee.
It's like it was a committeeevery time something happened.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
So the committee?
It's like it was a committeeevery time something happened.
So what directions orinstructions were you given as
far as reducing theseindividuals?

Speaker 1 (59:03):
points.
Well, I was acting, so I had to.
You had.
Well, when you told them thattheir points are down, they had
to move.
Like I said, they would end upcatching an RVR to bring their
points back up.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
So they could stay catch an.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
RVR to bring their points back up so they could
stay.
Now the full-on spectrum of it.
You know I was only acting so Iended up, you know, leaving and
then going back to the line,but I don't know if that was for
me.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
I love not being on the line sometimes, just to have
your weekends off and all thatDid the casework seem like a lot
overwhelming, oh, absolutely,because you would start, you
would get a, what's it called?

Speaker 1 (59:45):
You'd get a revision of the revision.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
A clarification of the clarification yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
And then, once you got the revision down, oh, you
got another revision.
And I'm like who's?
So you're doing all and I'mtalking about, like, what was,
like the six.
Um, what are the six elementsof a bio?
Like the six elements of a bioyeah okay, and then they added
two more, so you had to like goback and go through all the

(01:00:15):
cases and see if they qualifiedfor this and that on the bio.
I don't remember quite, sodon't, I can't like be, specific
.
I just remember that there wassix elements to a bio and they
added the two.
Now I don't know if that'sstill, if that's still the way.
It was eight when I, when I wascounseling.
Then they took the two awayagain.

(01:00:36):
There was just all these thingsthat you'd open up your email
after just doing all these casesbecause you had 14 days to get
them to committee.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
With your experience and knowledge.
Was the stuff they were askingyou to do?
Was it making sense?

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
I didn't know.
I was trying to figure out whowas making all these decisions
and how they would even knowthat they would work if they'd
never even been on the linebefore.
How do you even know?
How do you?
Yeah, how do you know this ifyou've never been?

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
As you're working, are you thinking to yourself
like what, the what is like?
Are you thinking this doesn'tmake sense?
Is this?
Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
You know, inmates, I had oneexperience on Delta Yard when I
was it's a Delta Yard, levelfour, sny, where I was
counseling over there and theyfound some escape paraphernalia,
okay, in the old where theyused to steam the clothes and

(01:01:40):
shine them all back there inVogue somewhere.
They found a rope and a bucket,all kinds of stuff by PIA or
you know, by the PIA, theCentral Kitchen.
So they had to shut everythingdown and you know there's a lot
of inmates that work at CentralKitchen in Central Kitchen to
find out where thatparaphernalia, escape stuff was.

(01:02:00):
They found all kinds of stuff.
So they shut everything downand the inmates were mad because
they need to go to work.
Okay, so we had to go through.
The CC2 said, okay, we got toeach take all these files and we
need to go through all of themand we're going to change the
requirements to be behind thewall no longer in a way you no

(01:02:22):
longer can do this and this.
So all these inmates werecomplaining to go to work.
But then when we changed thethe you know all the different
requirements to be able to gobehind the wall, a lot of them
couldn't work behind the wall.
Right, it kind of cleaned up,okay.
So when we got that taken careof, we finally let the ones that

(01:02:42):
were whining go back to work.
Well, now they're having towork like three times as hard
because there's nobody else backthere, because everybody got
fired.
So now they weren't going towork it, it was just wow one
thing after another.
So, yeah, and so we had to hirenew people and put them through.
It was a lot.
I felt like I spent most of thetime just trying to take one

(01:03:06):
tiny little step forward.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
One little the reason for you acting.
Were you aspiring to promote ordid you just want the
experience?

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
I wanted the experience I think I might have
wanted to promote, but towardsthe end it didn't really even
matter and honestly I think ithad a lot to do with my age.
I'm no nonsense, I ain't gottime for all that stuff anymore.
If I would have been a littlefreaking whippersnapper came in

(01:03:36):
at 25, and yeah, maybe, but at36 and 40.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Because were you observing what the BS that the
supervisor was dealing with?
Yes, and you're like, no, Idon't want to inherit that mess,
that headache.
You weren't wrong, it's likebabysitting.
Yeah, grown people, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
So you know it's just , but I took everything I
learned and when I left it'slike you know I got to like make
something good come out of this.
You know, but I will tell youthat when I left, everybody
around me was so happy my family, my friends, my daughter.
They were just like we're soglad that you're out of there.

(01:04:15):
Were you ready to leave?
I was ready.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
glad that you're out of there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Were you ready to leave?
I was ready, I had an optionand I chose to leave Because I
kept thinking, you know if I canget out of here while I still
have a little bit of respect forthe department and I can do
something else, because I stillhave a lot of things that I want
to do.
I think I should just leave now.

(01:04:37):
So I took the option to leave,and then things that I want to
do.
I think I should just leave now.
So I took the option to leaveand then went back into the
beauty business.
But that's when I fell into allthat issues with my money and
my, with the state owing me allthe money that they do and all
the penalties and Adam andFerone, who got fired, Fired.

(01:04:57):
Who did Adam and Ferone?
I, Adam and Ferone.
I fired Adam and Ferone.
They didn't do anything for meand I ended up firing them and
winning pretty much.
After I left them, Irepresented myself.
That's good.
Yes, I had more knowledgebecause Adam and Ferone has an

(01:05:17):
assistant, a paralegal, and thenthey have an assistant who has
an assistant.
Who has an assistant.
By the time you get to theassistant the last one nobody
knows what your case is reallyabout anymore and I was getting
crazy letters like when is yoursurgery?
I'm like it was a year ago.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Damn.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
And so I ended up, but I did it the right way.
I went down to WCAB and I filedall my paperwork on Adam and
Ferone state fund.
I wrote it to the judge.
Everybody got a letter.
They were late on all of myvouchers, my workman's comp

(01:05:56):
adjuster from state fund, shejust dropped the ball.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
How long was that process?
Was it a lengthy a year and ahalf?

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
And when I finally, finally, one morning, I woke up
and I said this is ridiculous, Ishould already be back in
school, I should have alreadygraduated from going back to
school.
Another whole other career,going back to school, I whole
other career.
Going back to school, I startedresearching stuff and I'm like,
wait a second, there's penaltyfees for late vouchers, there's
penalty fees for late money,there's penalty fees.

(01:06:29):
So I'm like, why hasn't anyonecalled me?
Why is Adam Furrow?
Everyone kept dropping the ballon me.
So finally, I picked up thephone one day and I called state
fund and I said I need thisperson's supervisor.
And, lord and behold, withinlike an hour somebody called me
and I kind of explained mysituation and she was like

(01:06:53):
Cynthia, something doesn't lookright here.
Let me look through your fileand I'll get back to you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
So within like an hour she called me back.
She's like did you ever get acheck for this amount of money?
And I said, nope.
Have you gotten your vouchers?
Nope, have you, no, Nope.
So within one week I had myvouchers.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
Damn.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
I had one of my checks.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
And then I started to dig and I told her.
I said do you know that you oweme penalties on top of all this
?
And she's like I've never heardof that.
I said, well, you need yoursupervisor, you need to go
figure it out.
So just last week they wereholding on to it I got a call.

(01:07:43):
Last year I ended up gettingthat first money, the settlement
that she forgot to pay me.
I ended up firing Adam andFerone.
I ended up getting that money.
Then I ended up getting myvouchers, but they held my money
for my penalties for everything.
So I finally reminded them twoweeks ago and they still owe me

(01:08:05):
that big amount that I guessthere's no money.
So everyone who's waiting for aCNR they're not doing CNRs,
they don't really have to, butthey like to to get us out of
their hair.
You know what I mean.
But they haven't done that yet.
But they had already approvedmine.
So I don't know what's going tohappen with that.
But as of last week, I was ableto clear all my voucher

(01:08:28):
penalties and all that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
Well, that's good.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
And I said you need to get on this, because I'm
going to end up going back andgetting you guys for another two
years on the bachelors.
I'm already done with school,I'm already licensed, state
licensed, I'm ready to open aspa and you guys haven't even
paid me.
So and I said and may I remindyou that Bernice, who was my

(01:08:54):
original caseworker, who droppedthe ball because they ended up
transferring me to another one,who finally started figuring
things out she told me do youknow, cynthia, that 87% of these
vouchers that we give out whenpeople retire, they don't even
use them.
I said, well, I'm not a lazyass, so I'm going to use mine
and I need it.
I need that money.
I ended up getting like I don'tknow 18 grand Damn.

(01:09:17):
Getting like I don't know 18grand Damn.
So I only used half of it forschool because it didn't cost
all that Right?
So because they, that voucheris pending and I'm schooled out.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
There's no more school I can do and I'm going to
be 60.
I don't want to go to schoolanymore.
I'm tired, I want to go toschool.
So I said, why don't you usethat voucher and just give it to
me?

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
Because you already owe me all that other money and
since we don't know whencyberspace is going to show up,
or whoever has it, or when,governor whatever you know, why
don't you just help me out andgive it to me?
Can you just?
Can you guys just help me outand they did, they did.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
Well, that's a good thing.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
Yes, so they did because I know more than them,
because I do my homework.
And Rose goes you're reallyreally really hard to deal with.
I said I'm going to get a lotharder.
I said so you better startfiguring out what you're doing.
And I said because I'm tellingyou what to do, you know.
And when I wrote Adam andFerron the letter and I said I
want all of the hours that youput into my case itemized and I

(01:10:27):
want to know every hour that youdid and I want to know how much
it is, so that I know not topay you, not to pay you, and
they wrote me back and said youdon't owe us anything.
They didn't even explain.
They were just like we screwedup.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
We're done so after you retired, even though you
faced this inconvenience withgetting paid?
How?

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
do you feel?
Overall, I feel like I didexactly what I needed to do,
because I'm glad they put methrough that, because I can now.
If anyone ever said, hey, I'mgetting you know having issues
with my because Adam's the big,they're the ones who represent
CDCR.
It seems like you can do it onyour own you don't need them.

(01:11:16):
If you can actually do yourfootwork, you don't need them.
If you can actually do yourfootwork, you don't need them.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
To what Represent yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
Yes, I represented myself.
I will never use an attorneyagain Really, absolutely not.
I learned so much that I canliterally walk myself through a
case, and well, that's how I gotthis money this last week.
They're like we're not going todeal with Cynthia anymore.
She's smarter than us.
Here's your check.
Get out of here, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
Now, do you think it's incompetence on the other
person's?
Do you think they don't care orthey don't know, or they're
just incompetent?

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Well, do you know when President Trump and Elon
sent out that letter?

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
What have you done in the last week?
That's the letter they need tobe getting.
I told him, I told the workcomp person last week.
I said this is why they'resending out letters because of
people like you who don't dotheir job.
Yeah, and you know, I said Idid all the footwork on my case.
That is why that letter isgoing out.
It wasn't to like, it was anhonest question and I can name a

(01:12:24):
lot of people who need thatletter.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
No, there's a lot of people stuck in that workman's
comp process.
A lot.
Thousands, thousands, stuck,stuck like Chuck.
No answers, no money, nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
But you know what, when I handled 3,000 cases of
misdemeanor in Fresno when Ididn't even know anything yet,
and I got through a lot of thosecases, a lot of those cases,
and I was in school and had adaughter, you can't do your
full-time job and get through,because one of the caseworkers
was like I have so many cases, Ihave like 70, and I was in
school and had a daughter.

(01:12:59):
You can't do your full-time joband get through, because one of
the caseworkers was like I haveso many cases, I have like 70,
and I'm like, oh God, you betterfreaking take, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
With that being said, and all your wisdom, do you
have any hope for our future InCDCR?
No, in the United States ofAmerica as a country.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
Absolutely.
I always have hope.
I do, I have hope.
But I believe that the kids oftoday, if they don't have a
solid figure in their life thathas a good head on their
shoulders to guide them, they'renot going're not going to make

(01:13:40):
it.
Because you can't spend yourlife behind a computer.
You can't spend your life indoing homeschooling all your
life.
I mean, I believe that somepeople need all that, but
everything is just so— I meantech is huge and important?

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
Yes, it is, but so is verbally communicating with
people physically.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
And being in your child's life.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Children's life.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
Like very and I don't mean like being there as they
grow, as they maybe have hardtimes, roadblocks, all this
stuff, you know, but as far aswhere we're going I don't.
I always question like shouldmy daughter have a child, Should

(01:14:27):
she get married and have kids?
What's the world going to belike?
But then you can't.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
Would you recommend your daughter become a
correctional officer inCalifornia?

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
Absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
Why not?

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
Because it's dangerous.
It's dangerous right now andit's going to get more dangerous
unless somebody steps in andcleans up this.
You're my buddy, you're myhomie.
Let me shake your hand andlet's go freaking to the snack
bar.
And yeah, no, no, fist bumping,air hugging, no, you know, you
build that rapport sometimeswith an inmate because you do.

(01:14:57):
I mean, there's some people outthere.
You can't help it.
They have that personality andI will say that there is some
that do come out in their rehab.
I'm not going to say thatthere's not.
There is.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Facts, but what we're speaking about is the extra BS
that they got going on.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
Yeah, but you don't go in there thinking that you go
in to be an officer in yourcustody, correct?
You're not a teacher, you'renot a mental health.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
A rec therapist, a psychiatrist, none of that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
None of that, they sent me to EOP school for a week
in Visalia.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
They did.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
To learn about all these crazy people within a week
as an officer.
Yes, to work in the EOPbuilding.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
This is the first time I ever heard of a course
like that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
It was like a substance abuse facility.
It was for EOP, no, but it wasfor.
It was like to work in thoseunits.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
Very interesting, very interesting.
Is there anything we haven'ttouched on yet that you would
like to touch on?
We covered Selena SADF.
Is there anything we left out?
Any advice you would give to afemale correctional officer that
has maybe one year in thedepartment?

(01:16:09):
Now Two years, just graduatedjust graduated.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
I would just say to go in there with your um
professionalism, um, if you can,if you can actually get
involved in um, do some actingtime as you get more experience,
you know, but try to findsomeone in the department who,

(01:16:37):
who you know, is solid and youcan trust because there is,
there's good supervisors thatwill help you out and take care
of you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
Accommodate.

Speaker 1 (01:16:49):
Yeah, like at Salinas Val, we were talking about some
of the people that I knew there.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
Solid, dude, yeah, solid.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
You know Brock Amane, stacker Spore, macamani Stacker
Spore, and just by watchingthem you knew exactly you were
an officer.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
You were an officer and that's what I went in to be
no therapist and no coddle.
No, but as a female, remainprofessional.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
Don't go in there with a bunch of makeup on.
Don't go in there acting likeyou're going to a night out,
because these are inmates canyou say that again please?
do not go into the prisonlooking like you know you're
going out and you are trying toimpress someone or get
recognized, because you will getit and it's not going to be

(01:17:39):
good.
And the thing about that is, Ithink I went through my whole
career.
Nobody knew, really knewanything about me when I, when I
went to the prison, nobody knewanything.
My hair was in a bun, I wore nomakeup, my personality was the
same, but I was just very, youknow, um, I would save that for
the outside, but I was just very.

(01:18:00):
You know, I would save that forthe outside, but in the inside
you conduct yourself withprofessionalism and if you're
consistent, the inmates willcontinue to take you serious and
they know not to mess with you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
That's huge.

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
And stay physically in shape.
Go to the gym.
If an inmate sees you, they'renot going to mess with you.
That's huge.
And stay physically in shape.
Go to the gym.
If an inmate sees you, they'renot going to mess with you.
If you're all freaking, youknow if you're looking good and
you're polished.

Speaker 2 (01:18:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
You know, versus the one that comes in.
You know, all just sloppy.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
A lot of female correctional officers are
mothers or expecting mothers.
What advice would you give tobalance the job and motherhood?

Speaker 1 (01:18:41):
To balance the job and motherhood.
Just don't bring your work home, because your kids will feel it
, even if they're little.
They feel it, they see thechange and if you have a support
system, take advantage of it,because you're going to need it.
You're going to need it whenthey're little.
You know they're little, but asthey get older and they start
knowing what you're doing, whatyou're about, and then you know,

(01:19:05):
you come home, you've had a badday, you know, or you take it
out on your significant other oryour kids, you know.
And next thing you know you'retelling your kids not to go to
your room but to lock it up andyou're like, wait a minute, I
didn't mean to say that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
My dad told me that one time.

Speaker 1 (01:19:19):
You know what I mean and you're like I didn't mean to
do that.
You know you really have tolike pay attention, but you also
have to have another life.
Okay, this is very important.
There's a lot of officers thatthis is their whole life.
This is all they've ever done.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (01:19:40):
If you have to have other hobbies.
I mean, what do you do?
Do you play guitar, Do you sing?
Do you snowboard?

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
Do you nails?

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
Do you, whatever you do, do it and keep doing it and
don't lose all those contactsyou know.
Don't lose your friends.
My friends are all from grammarschool, nice, they're grammar
school, high school, we're allyou know and I can always go
back to them.
My, you know, my, my, myfriends, you know.
And even though my parents aregone, I have my daughter now

(01:20:09):
she's in LA, but as a mom, to bein this position, as you get
older, your kids kind of youknow, like my daughter was
really resentful for a whilebecause I was a different person
, kind of you know, and a littlebit more harsh.
It's understandable.
But as they get older, they dohave a respect for you.

(01:20:32):
Like you know, mom, like nowthat she's older she's like you
know, mom, you don't have to doanything more, you've done it
all.
What is staying three moreyears going to do for you?

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
You've already done it, so just bounce and do what
you love, and I did.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
I'm glad you did.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
So I went back and I got my esthetician degree, I got
licensed, went back to thebeauty business, nice, to what I
did before, and now I'm in thechemistry program to get my
certification so I can formulateand kind of just take that to
the next level.
You know I'm always going to belike You're killing it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
That's good, so Grinding.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
I am a happy, genuinely a happy person, you
know.
I don't.
I'm positive, you know, and Itake the time to.
I'm the type that I'll start aconversation with my Uber driver
or my, like the gal when I wasleaving.
Right now.
She's like where are you goingall dressed up?
Because yesterday I was shotout, came off the plane.
I was like someone hit me withthe freaking Mac and.

(01:21:35):
Peterbilt and I said I'm goingto do a podcast, and then I kind
of gave her a little bit.
And she's like when you comeback, I'm in criminal justice
right now, she goes, so, please,when you come back, she's the
little attendant.
So tonight when I go, back we'regoing to chat and she wants to
know about how the do's anddon'ts to be a cop or an officer

(01:21:55):
.
So, yeah, awesome.
And then when they see methey're like you don't look like
you would be a cop.
I said because it doesn't, I'mnot, I'm Cindy, I am who I am
and I'm not going to let it.
You know, I see so manyofficers go in, even female, and
they come out all tatted andI'm like why that's the latest

(01:22:18):
trend now.
Gener I'm like why that's thelatest trend now, but
Generational thing, but you seeit big in the prison, it's just
see like, oh yeah, I'm talkingabout in the prison they're
blasted.

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
No, I'm talking about prison.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
I'm talking about seeing beautiful women that go
in the prison and then they'rejust.
They come out looking like aninmate.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
I mean, we see it, we do see it for sure 100%.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
I mean there's.
I mean it is what it is, butyeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:45):
I mean same thing.
They carry backpacks now, whenwe used to carry lunchboxes in.
It's the whole generational.
It's interesting to watch,that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
But overall I loved my.
I I loved there's alwaysnothing's free, you know,
nothing's free.
I can like my knee.
My knee I have like a littlebit and it's very, very hard for
me because I always did all my,you know, my modeling stuff and
my, my competitions and allthat, and for my knee to have a
big old scar, that was very,very like hard for me to watch,

(01:23:20):
you know.
But I got my family, I got anice happy life Priceless.
Me and my daughter are justlike you know.
I'm not like my OCD is.
I see a therapist, though I seetwo, and they keep me in check.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
That's awesome, that's good.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
He'll be like what did you do this week?
I said I had a bunch of stuffto do and I said fuck it, and
he's all.
He's all.
You're very candid, cynthia.
I said my last, my lasttherapist.
I was a little more appropriate.
I said this time you're a man,I'm going to just say what I
have to say.
I said you just have to get acase of just forget it, you know

(01:24:02):
.
And so he would just kind oflike, and I'm done with him now.
I actually finished my verylast session with him like a
couple of weeks ago, but I stillsee my psychiatrist.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
I have to no, I hear you.

Speaker 1 (01:24:15):
And I'm, and I'm, I'm all for it.
It absolutely.
I encourage you and um, I'll beon in the lord my this is.
He's the one that every day Iwould walk in all the way to
work, all the way driving.
Lord, you got this.
I wouldn't even be here if itwasn't for you.
So, because this is your planfor me, I know you got me.
So, whatever I need to do, youjust speak, you know, and I'll

(01:24:41):
try to hear you amongst all thestuff.
So, even through my drinking,even through my health issues
that I had because of thedrinking and because of the
stress it got me through it.
I'm glad and I feel better, Ilook better.
I run into people that are likeCynthia, you look so much
better than you were just, and Isaid thank you because it was

(01:25:04):
really tearing me apart.
So these new officers are goingto have to do 37 years.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
That's impossible.

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
I told every officer that I was able to speak to
before I left You're young,you're 23, 24.
If you have a chance somewherein between there to go get a
degree or go do something else,do enough time in here to get
you started and go out and dosomething else.
You don't want to be 57 in hereat 24.

(01:25:34):
I said no, you're going to endup.
You're going to end up having areally dysfunctional
relationships, everything youhave to just Health, the health
alone, yes, and your health,mental health.
And your mental health and don'tget fixated on that overtime.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
Oh yeah, that's a big one.

Speaker 1 (01:25:53):
Because when you're only 24 and you are just burning
, you want to buy a house, sobad that you're doing 30
overtimes, and then you get it.
And then now your next thing isyou want a Harley and then you
want a quad.
And I said you're going to be35, 40, and you're going to be
so burned out that you're notgoing to be able to finish.
And it will, and then when youdo finish, that adrenaline.

(01:26:14):
That's been like this for 20years.
Instant heart attack.
They say it takes two years foradrenaline to come down.
And when it comes down and yourbody's not moving and you're
not.

Speaker 2 (01:26:24):
You shut down.

Speaker 1 (01:26:26):
You will shut down, and that's when you start all
the ailments and all that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:28):
Oh, we see it.
We've seen it over and over.

Speaker 1 (01:26:31):
I'm so.
I wake up and I'm like yeah.
Yeah, so, and about thatshaking that hand thing.
So this is my fear about that.
This is what I was thinking.
An officer who is trained likethat is sincere.
They're going in to shake ahand, sincerely, right?
The inmate's not thinking that.

(01:26:51):
I'm glad you said that.
He's thinking I got this guyAbsolutely.
Aren't they thinking like that?

Speaker 2 (01:26:57):
No, they're corrupt and criminals and demonic.
I've come to that conclusion.
Because, Because I've sat atthe table with them.
I was a PIO, so I know howthese people operate.

Speaker 1 (01:27:09):
It's evil, so that's not good.
And I don't really know what tosay because I'm just going to.
I would just avoid that wholethis, just go do something else
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:27:21):
I'm glad you've made the trip out here.
Really am Thank you.
Thank you for sharing yourstory.
I hope your daughter watchesand realizes how much of a
hardworking mother she has andall the effort you put in to
provide for the family.
I commend that truly.
Thank you, yep.
So there you guys have it.
Something different, muchneeded.

(01:27:42):
Glad to hear that perspective.
If you like what you saw, makesure you hit that subscribe
button.
Love you guys.
Keep pushing forward.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
Unhinged line.
Hector's legend engraved Livinglife raw, never been tamed.
From the hood to the pen.
Truth entails pen.
Hector Bravo, unhinged storynever ends you, thank you.

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