January 23, 2020 • 17 mins
This week, two films about women out to even the score. Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn) stars Margot Robbie as Harley, who, as the Joker's recently ex-girlfriend, has a few beefs with male supervillains. And The Rhythm Section stars Blake Lively as a woman on a mission to avenge the death of her family. To help us understand what makes these characters tick like virtual time bombs, host Natasha Gargiulo speaks with psychologist Hina Khan. We also get some unique perspective from Mark Burnell, who wrote both the original novel and the screenplay for The Rhythm Section.
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Natasha G. (00:00):
Okay, so take a listen to this.
Harley Quinn (00:03):
The Joker and I broke up. I wanted a fresh
start. But it turns out, I wasn't the only dame
in Gotham looking for emancipation.
Natasha G. (00:13):
Just a little taste of the trailer for Birds of
Prey, the upcoming action- packed, DC Comics- inspired release from
Warner Brothers. Welcome to Hello Movies, a podcast by movie
lovers for movie lovers. I'm your host, Natasha Gargiulo. Today
on the podcast, we've got a running theme going on.
We're talking about women and revenge. We're going to be
looking at two films that feature some mighty angry females
(00:36):
on personal missions involving violence, emancipation, and vengeance. Birds of
Prey, of course, starring Margot Robbie, and The Rhythm Section,
a brand new thriller starring Blake Lively. From Lisbeth Salander
to Wonder Woman, more and more movies are featuring these
complicated female protagonists, women who don't do things by the
(00:56):
book and who don't shy away from violence. Audiences are
loving these films and we're going to talk about why
that is and we've got some killer guests lined up.
Harley Quinn (01:04):
You know what a harlequin is? A harlequin's role is to serve.
It's nothing without a master.
Natasha G. (01:14):
As you heard, a harlequin equals a servant trickster character
from the very old Italian tradition of Commedia dell'arte. Harley
Quinn equals the name of a complicated female with a
lot of moral gray area to explore. We last saw
her as The Joker's main squeeze in Suicide Squad. She
was so popular with fans that she's back in her
own movie, full title, Birds of Prey
(01:37):
Emancipation of One Harley Quinn. This time, she's teamed up
with a whole pack of female anti- heroes in Gotham
City. The Birds of Prey includes Black Canary, Huntress, and
Renee Montoya, the first openly gay character on screen in
a DC Comic film. Their mission, to save a young
female thief from a truly evil crime lord, Black Mask,
(01:58):
played by Ewan McGregor. Margot Robbie, as we know, has
taken on the role of Harley Quinn. Is she good
or is she bad? Does she still like The Joker?
Whose side is she on? And can you really trust
her? What's driving her forward? So, to talk about what
motivates a character like Harley Quinn, and to speculate on
why people love her so much, I've got Hina Khan
(02:21):
here with me. Hina is a coach and a registered psychotherapist
whose main job is guiding people to create lasting change
in their lives. So basically, an expert at helping stuck
people get unstuck. I'm sure you're very popular and you
have a lot of clients. We asked her to consider
Harley Quinn and give us her professional opinion. Hi, Hina.
Welcome to Hello Movies.
Hina Khan (02:41):
Hi, Natasha. Thank you for having me.
Natasha G. (02:43):
It's my pleasure. Okay, so you heard about this film, right?
Hina Khan (02:46):
I have.
Natasha G. (02:47):
We get to watch a group of really super tough
and slightly twisted sisters doing it for themselves. And it
comes on the heels of Harley Quinn breaking up with
The Joker. So, what role do you think female friendships
have in the wake of a breakup?
Hina Khan (03:00):
I think female friendships are everything in the wake of
a breakup. That's who you go to. That's kind of
the soft place that you land. And that's also where
you can take some time to heal and also gain
perspective on what has happened, what you've been through. And
then, it's also an opportunity sometimes for those girlfriends to
(03:20):
share some of their insights that they could not share
when you were in the relationship.
Natasha G. (03:26):
Yeah, you are right. Whenever we get out of a
relationship, whenever we go through a breakup, there's obviously a
lot of anger involved. In general, how would you describe
the female relationship to rage?
Hina Khan (03:37):
So, I think the relationship between women and rage and
anger is complicated even for us, because some of us
are not comfortable with our own anger and our own
rage because we've never been taught ways to express it.
We've been told to bottle it up.
Natasha G. (03:53):
Why are we told to bottle up?
Hina Khan (03:55):
Because it makes other people comfortable. And so, we've been
told that we've also been given an idea of how
young women should be in social situations, in situations like
that, and that we should not get angry because it's
very unbecoming.
Natasha G. (04:14):
But yet, in movies like Harley Quinn and Birds of
Prey, we are seeing these anti- heroines that are kind
of raging and getting revenge back and we're seeing it
very popular on the big screen. So people love them,
especially these women. Why is that?
Hina Khan (04:31):
I think people are ready for it. And it's speaking
to something that people are craving. They're tired of women
being boxed into these stereotypical characters. But what's really exciting
about it is that, I've got two boys that are
10 and 12, and when they see these strong female
leads, they don't even bat an eyelash. To them, it
(04:53):
is normal now. So I think we're seeing a paradigm
shift. Also, as we see more female directors, more female
screenwriters, when we see it sort of in front of
and behind the camera, we're seeing the narrative change as
well. And then these characters, what's so beautiful about it
is that they are complex and layered, as we are.
Natasha G. (05:14):
Yeah. How do you think films like this, female- directed
strong female leads full of female- initiated violence will impact
the next generation of moviegoers?
Hina Khan (05:25):
I think it gives women, young girls permission to be
able to access their whole range of feelings, not just
the feelings that we find acceptable. And I think there's
something really powerful to see it on the big screen,
because we see it in movies of superheroes with boys
(05:45):
all the time and they get to, in their imagination,
go there. I see it with my boys that are
10 and 12 and they've gotten Nerf guns and they're playing parts
and they're doing it and it's all really healthy and
it's great. And it's going to be wonderful that young
girls will be able to access that as well.
Natasha G. (06:03):
Hina, thank you so much. It's been awesome talking to
you about this. The fantabulous Hina Khan, everybody. This is
the Girls Get Even episode of the Cineplex Hello Movies
podcast. If you like what you're hearing, don't forget to
subscribe, like, share, and review us where you get your
podcasts. Coming up, The Rhythm Section starring Blake Lively, a
(06:25):
tense and moving film about anger, loss, and retribution. Blake
plays Stephanie Patrick, a woman who turns to violence to
get revenge on the people who killed her family.
Stephanie P. (06:38):
I lost my family three years ago.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
It wasn't an accident.
Stephanie P. (06:47):
I need your help to find the ones who did
this. I've got nothing to lose.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
What about your life?
Stephanie P. (06:52):
What about it?
Natasha G. (06:57):
Okay, so, The Rhythm Section is a new British- American
action thriller, screenplay by Mark Burnell, based on his novel
of the same name and directed by Reed Morano, who
directed the first three episodes of The Handmaid's Tale. Blake
Lively is playing Stephanie Patrick, a grieving woman who assumes
the identity of an assassin so she can uncover the
truth about how her family died and go after revenge
(07:19):
against those responsible. The film also stars Jude Law and
Sterling K. Brown. The character of Stephanie Patrick has been
compared with Lisbeth Salander from The Girl with the Dragon
Tattoo series, a woman dealing with trauma, dark, and self-
destructive but deeply determined. I recently had the chance to
talk to writer, Mark Burnell, who created Stephanie Patrick to
(07:40):
learn more about her and the film. All right. So,
I had the opportunity to read this book over the
holidays and I must confess it is a page- turner.
It kind of reminds me of a female Bourne Identity
because Stephanie Patrick really kicks butt in this novel. So,
Mark, tell me what you were setting out to do
when you wrote the character of Stephanie Patrick.
Mark Burnell (08:02):
Well, originally, before I started the book, the character was going to be male because conventionally, that's
what happens in these kinds of books. But there was
something that just didn't feel right. And I can't even
truthfully remember now quite when it was that I thought, " What
if it was a woman?" But it was one of
those things like the moment it's thought, you can't unthink
(08:22):
it. And then I thought, " Okay, yeah, that would be
so much more interesting." Because I haven't read anything like
this with a female central character in these types of
thrillers. And of course, then the big issue was, well,
how's that going to be for me to write this
character from her perspective?
Natasha G. (08:40):
This character has been compared in the press to Lisbeth Salander from The Girl with
the Dragon Tattoo series. How similar do you feel that
they are to one another?
Mark Burnell (08:50):
They do differ in some respects. I mean, the reason
Stephanie's in such a pitiful state when we meet her
is as a direct consequence of what happens to her
family, when she's in her sort of mid, like in her
late teens. Prior to that point, she's grown up in
a very loving, stable, well- off middle- class family. She's
had the best kind of upbringing you could possibly imagine.
(09:10):
That is not true, I know, of the Lisbeth Salander
character. If there were some comparisons to be made, I
would say it's, they both have a part of them
somewhere held somewhere deep inside them, deep, deep inside them,
which is who they truly are and it's that's protected,
so whatever else happens to them, whatever people do to
them physically, the kind of emotional stuff that gets thrown
(09:31):
at them, as long as that little bit stays safe,
they can kind of deal with everything else. I would
say that's probably a sort of big similarity between the two.
Natasha G. (09:39):
Yes. I think another similarity is kind of like that
underlying message about seeking revenge or getting vengeance. So, what
were you trying to get across with that story for
this character?
Mark Burnell (09:50):
For Stephanie, what she's looking for is to feel better.
She wants justice because there's been an injustice and not
only that, it's taken away her family, so on a
basic level, that's what she's looking for. But more deeply,
she wants to feel better. She doesn't want to be
hurting so much and she feels, initially, that if she
(10:13):
can get revenge, if she can make it right, then
she's going to feel right.
Natasha G. (10:17):
You worked with Reed Morano who directed the first three
episodes of The Handmaid's Tale. What was it like working
with her?
Mark Burnell (10:23):
Truthfully, when I first met her here in London, I'd
sort of heard about her, but I hadn't seen Meadowland
and I hadn't seen Handmaid's Tale either. But she was
a name I sort of heard of anyway. I was
introduced to her by Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson. And
they said, " Look, it's very important to us that you're
happy with her before." So we met. And as soon
(10:45):
as I met her, as soon as we started talking,
I just thought, " Okay, this is going to be absolutely
fine." And we got on amazingly well. She had a
totally old views of how this should be. We're totally
locked, really from the first day. So yeah, I couldn't
have been happier. She's been terrific the whole way through.
Natasha G. (11:03):
And I'm curious to know about your thoughts of Blake
Lively playing Stephanie Patrick.
Mark Burnell (11:08):
So I sat through, I think it was 85 separate auditions for Stephanie.
Blake was not one of them.
Natasha G. (11:13):
85?
Mark Burnell (11:15):
85, yep.
Natasha G. (11:16):
Can you tell us who were some of the other
actresses that auditioned for it?
Mark Burnell (11:20):
There were two really real standout auditions, both English. That
was... But we'd always agreed here that no matter who
made this and how it should be, that Stephanie should
stay English. She should definitely be English on the screen.
So, most of the actresses who auditioned were English. And
there was Florence Pugh. Her audition was really fantastic, as
(11:40):
you would expect. And then there was another woman whose
audition, again, rather to my shame, I hadn't, I didn't
know who she was because I hadn't seen the series that
she was in over here, which is very, very popular.
Big sort of Sunday evening show called... Eleanor Tomlinson and
she's in the show called Poldark, which is this sort
of 17th, 18th- century thing set down in Cornwall. It's
(12:02):
a big costume drama. Her audition was absolutely extraordinary. I
mean, really amazing. Anyway, so... But anyway, there were about
half a dozen really standout ones, but Eleanor Tomlinson's was
the best. And then suddenly, I get a call from
Barbara saying, " Oh, by the way, Reed signed. She's definitely
directing." So, that was excellent. " And Blake Lively is going
(12:24):
to play Stephanie." It was like, " Really?" It's like, it came
as a total surprise. I have no sort of hesitation
about saying this now because of the way it turned out, but I was
slightly taken aback because I thought, " Well, this is not
who I imagined that was going to be playing Stephanie," because I'm mostly
familiar from her work. My daughter's a huge fan of
(12:45):
Gossip Girl.
Natasha G. (12:45):
XOXO.
Mark Burnell (12:47):
Well, exactly. And although, I had recently seen The Shallows.
I had recently seen The Shallows where she's in every
single scene, and it was terrific. But nevertheless, that wasn't quite
what I had in mind. But then from the first
day, the first day on the set was in Dublin.
The moment I saw her on the monitor, the way
(13:08):
she looked, her attitude, she looked terrible because it's right
at the beginning of the movie, she was (crosstalk)
shocking. But the way she looked and the way she got
into the car and her insolence and her accent, everything
was just like, " We're in safe hands here. We are
absolutely in safe hands." I mean, she really exceeded, I
think, everybody's expectation. And I would say that part of
(13:29):
that was probably due to the relationship she had with
Reed. I think Reed enabled her. I think Blake trusted
Reed enough, and that that meant that Reed was then
able to get this performance out of her.
Natasha G. (13:45):
Well, you see, I think that is a perfect example of
why people should go see this movie, because we want
to see what Blake Lively is going to do to
Stephanie Patrick and how she's going to perform. And I
think it's a role that's going to challenge her but
also, we'll see her in a different light. So, thank
you for that. What I'm interested in knowing, very briefly,
I'm sure there's a long process to it, but what's
(14:07):
the process from taking a novel and converting it into
a screenplay? Because I'm sure there's a lot of bits
in the book that are not included in the film
that we won't see.
Mark Burnell (14:17):
There are. Well firstly, the general first step that happens
in this process is that you should exclude the writer because-
Natasha G. (14:25):
Oh.
Mark Burnell (14:26):
Of the novel. Writers very, don't generally get asked to adapt their own
work for a very good reason actually, is that most
of them find it hard to butcher the book. But
for me, the book exists in its own right. It's
there. And so, we're making a movie, which is something
different, and it's not important that we hack up the
book, which was just as well because that's actually what
we did. You've read the book, there's way too much
(14:49):
in those pages to go into a one hour 45
movie. And that never bothered me. In fact, I found
that I really enjoyed that, having to sort of think
of something completely new and alternative, and just doing whatever
needs to be done to make the two hours work.
Natasha G. (15:09):
That's some great insight.
Mark Burnell (15:10):
And I really enjoyed that.
Natasha G. (15:10):
Yeah, no, that's some fantastic insight for any screenwriters out
there. Do you have any tips for them? Any last
words that perhaps some screenwriters are listening right now and
they're saying, " Oh, I'd love to find out some little
tidbits on how I can improve my work."
Mark Burnell (15:27):
The first bit of advice I would give is, would apply actually to
novelists and screenwriters, which is, just do it. And I
know this better than anybody. I spend an awful lot
of time finding excuses not to sit down and do
the work. And if you can get past that, just do
it. That's helpful.
Natasha G. (15:42):
I think we all do.
Mark Burnell (15:43):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And the other thing, this is something
I've sort of picked up the screenwriting on the way,
it's the dialogue is the dialogue but all the other
stuff, try to find... A lot of different people are
going to read your script and they're going to feel about
it differently, and you need to find a language that
is clear, it's going to be very economical, and not
(16:04):
be off- putting. There are scripts which are very off-
putting sometimes, to different eyes and to different sensibilities. And
you've got to, if you can find a sort of
a neutral way that isn't boring but is clear, that's
going to be incredibly helpful. That's something which I really
picked up along the way. And that was an unexpected
lesson, I would say.
Natasha G. (16:25):
Mark, thank you so much for taking the time to
speak with us today. We appreciate it.
Mark Burnell (16:29):
Well, thank you so much.
Natasha G. (16:31):
That's it for today. I hope you enjoyed this Girls
Get Even episode of Hello Movies, looking at women, revenge,
and the art of reclaiming your identity after trauma. The
Rhythm Section opens January 31st and Birds of Prey comes
at you February 7th. Plus if you like action, opening
this week on January 24th, The Gentlemen, an action comedy
written and directed by Guy Ritchie, starring Matthew McConaughey as
(16:54):
a marijuana kingpin who's looking to retire. Plenty of great
reasons to get down to your local Cineplex and check
out a movie. Don't forget to save me some popcorn.
I'm Natasha Gargiulo. Thanks for listening.
Okay, so take a listen to this.
Harley Quinn (00:03):
The Joker and I broke up. I wanted a fresh
start. But it turns out, I wasn't the only dame
in Gotham looking for emancipation.
Natasha G. (00:13):
Just a little taste of the trailer for Birds of
Prey, the upcoming action- packed, DC Comics- inspired release from
Warner Brothers. Welcome to Hello Movies, a podcast by movie
lovers for movie lovers. I'm your host, Natasha Gargiulo. Today
on the podcast, we've got a running theme going on.
We're talking about women and revenge. We're going to be
looking at two films that feature some mighty angry females
(00:36):
on personal missions involving violence, emancipation, and vengeance. Birds of
Prey, of course, starring Margot Robbie, and The Rhythm Section,
a brand new thriller starring Blake Lively. From Lisbeth Salander
to Wonder Woman, more and more movies are featuring these
complicated female protagonists, women who don't do things by the
(00:56):
book and who don't shy away from violence. Audiences are
loving these films and we're going to talk about why
that is and we've got some killer guests lined up.
Harley Quinn (01:04):
You know what a harlequin is? A harlequin's role is to serve.
It's nothing without a master.
Natasha G. (01:14):
As you heard, a harlequin equals a servant trickster character
from the very old Italian tradition of Commedia dell'arte. Harley
Quinn equals the name of a complicated female with a
lot of moral gray area to explore. We last saw
her as The Joker's main squeeze in Suicide Squad. She
was so popular with fans that she's back in her
own movie, full title, Birds of Prey
(01:37):
Emancipation of One Harley Quinn. This time, she's teamed up
with a whole pack of female anti- heroes in Gotham
City. The Birds of Prey includes Black Canary, Huntress, and
Renee Montoya, the first openly gay character on screen in
a DC Comic film. Their mission, to save a young
female thief from a truly evil crime lord, Black Mask,
(01:58):
played by Ewan McGregor. Margot Robbie, as we know, has
taken on the role of Harley Quinn. Is she good
or is she bad? Does she still like The Joker?
Whose side is she on? And can you really trust
her? What's driving her forward? So, to talk about what
motivates a character like Harley Quinn, and to speculate on
why people love her so much, I've got Hina Khan
(02:21):
here with me. Hina is a coach and a registered psychotherapist
whose main job is guiding people to create lasting change
in their lives. So basically, an expert at helping stuck
people get unstuck. I'm sure you're very popular and you
have a lot of clients. We asked her to consider
Harley Quinn and give us her professional opinion. Hi, Hina.
Welcome to Hello Movies.
Hina Khan (02:41):
Hi, Natasha. Thank you for having me.
Natasha G. (02:43):
It's my pleasure. Okay, so you heard about this film, right?
Hina Khan (02:46):
I have.
Natasha G. (02:47):
We get to watch a group of really super tough
and slightly twisted sisters doing it for themselves. And it
comes on the heels of Harley Quinn breaking up with
The Joker. So, what role do you think female friendships
have in the wake of a breakup?
Hina Khan (03:00):
I think female friendships are everything in the wake of
a breakup. That's who you go to. That's kind of
the soft place that you land. And that's also where
you can take some time to heal and also gain
perspective on what has happened, what you've been through. And
then, it's also an opportunity sometimes for those girlfriends to
(03:20):
share some of their insights that they could not share
when you were in the relationship.
Natasha G. (03:26):
Yeah, you are right. Whenever we get out of a
relationship, whenever we go through a breakup, there's obviously a
lot of anger involved. In general, how would you describe
the female relationship to rage?
Hina Khan (03:37):
So, I think the relationship between women and rage and
anger is complicated even for us, because some of us
are not comfortable with our own anger and our own
rage because we've never been taught ways to express it.
We've been told to bottle it up.
Natasha G. (03:53):
Why are we told to bottle up?
Hina Khan (03:55):
Because it makes other people comfortable. And so, we've been
told that we've also been given an idea of how
young women should be in social situations, in situations like
that, and that we should not get angry because it's
very unbecoming.
Natasha G. (04:14):
But yet, in movies like Harley Quinn and Birds of
Prey, we are seeing these anti- heroines that are kind
of raging and getting revenge back and we're seeing it
very popular on the big screen. So people love them,
especially these women. Why is that?
Hina Khan (04:31):
I think people are ready for it. And it's speaking
to something that people are craving. They're tired of women
being boxed into these stereotypical characters. But what's really exciting
about it is that, I've got two boys that are
10 and 12, and when they see these strong female
leads, they don't even bat an eyelash. To them, it
(04:53):
is normal now. So I think we're seeing a paradigm
shift. Also, as we see more female directors, more female
screenwriters, when we see it sort of in front of
and behind the camera, we're seeing the narrative change as
well. And then these characters, what's so beautiful about it
is that they are complex and layered, as we are.
Natasha G. (05:14):
Yeah. How do you think films like this, female- directed
strong female leads full of female- initiated violence will impact
the next generation of moviegoers?
Hina Khan (05:25):
I think it gives women, young girls permission to be
able to access their whole range of feelings, not just
the feelings that we find acceptable. And I think there's
something really powerful to see it on the big screen,
because we see it in movies of superheroes with boys
(05:45):
all the time and they get to, in their imagination,
go there. I see it with my boys that are
10 and 12 and they've gotten Nerf guns and they're playing parts
and they're doing it and it's all really healthy and
it's great. And it's going to be wonderful that young
girls will be able to access that as well.
Natasha G. (06:03):
Hina, thank you so much. It's been awesome talking to
you about this. The fantabulous Hina Khan, everybody. This is
the Girls Get Even episode of the Cineplex Hello Movies
podcast. If you like what you're hearing, don't forget to
subscribe, like, share, and review us where you get your
podcasts. Coming up, The Rhythm Section starring Blake Lively, a
(06:25):
tense and moving film about anger, loss, and retribution. Blake
plays Stephanie Patrick, a woman who turns to violence to
get revenge on the people who killed her family.
Stephanie P. (06:38):
I lost my family three years ago.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
It wasn't an accident.
Stephanie P. (06:47):
I need your help to find the ones who did
this. I've got nothing to lose.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
What about your life?
Stephanie P. (06:52):
What about it?
Natasha G. (06:57):
Okay, so, The Rhythm Section is a new British- American
action thriller, screenplay by Mark Burnell, based on his novel
of the same name and directed by Reed Morano, who
directed the first three episodes of The Handmaid's Tale. Blake
Lively is playing Stephanie Patrick, a grieving woman who assumes
the identity of an assassin so she can uncover the
truth about how her family died and go after revenge
(07:19):
against those responsible. The film also stars Jude Law and
Sterling K. Brown. The character of Stephanie Patrick has been
compared with Lisbeth Salander from The Girl with the Dragon
Tattoo series, a woman dealing with trauma, dark, and self-
destructive but deeply determined. I recently had the chance to
talk to writer, Mark Burnell, who created Stephanie Patrick to
(07:40):
learn more about her and the film. All right. So,
I had the opportunity to read this book over the
holidays and I must confess it is a page- turner.
It kind of reminds me of a female Bourne Identity
because Stephanie Patrick really kicks butt in this novel. So,
Mark, tell me what you were setting out to do
when you wrote the character of Stephanie Patrick.
Mark Burnell (08:02):
Well, originally, before I started the book, the character was going to be male because conventionally, that's
what happens in these kinds of books. But there was
something that just didn't feel right. And I can't even
truthfully remember now quite when it was that I thought, " What
if it was a woman?" But it was one of
those things like the moment it's thought, you can't unthink
(08:22):
it. And then I thought, " Okay, yeah, that would be
so much more interesting." Because I haven't read anything like
this with a female central character in these types of
thrillers. And of course, then the big issue was, well,
how's that going to be for me to write this
character from her perspective?
Natasha G. (08:40):
This character has been compared in the press to Lisbeth Salander from The Girl with
the Dragon Tattoo series. How similar do you feel that
they are to one another?
Mark Burnell (08:50):
They do differ in some respects. I mean, the reason
Stephanie's in such a pitiful state when we meet her
is as a direct consequence of what happens to her
family, when she's in her sort of mid, like in her
late teens. Prior to that point, she's grown up in
a very loving, stable, well- off middle- class family. She's
had the best kind of upbringing you could possibly imagine.
(09:10):
That is not true, I know, of the Lisbeth Salander
character. If there were some comparisons to be made, I
would say it's, they both have a part of them
somewhere held somewhere deep inside them, deep, deep inside them,
which is who they truly are and it's that's protected,
so whatever else happens to them, whatever people do to
them physically, the kind of emotional stuff that gets thrown
(09:31):
at them, as long as that little bit stays safe,
they can kind of deal with everything else. I would
say that's probably a sort of big similarity between the two.
Natasha G. (09:39):
Yes. I think another similarity is kind of like that
underlying message about seeking revenge or getting vengeance. So, what
were you trying to get across with that story for
this character?
Mark Burnell (09:50):
For Stephanie, what she's looking for is to feel better.
She wants justice because there's been an injustice and not
only that, it's taken away her family, so on a
basic level, that's what she's looking for. But more deeply,
she wants to feel better. She doesn't want to be
hurting so much and she feels, initially, that if she
(10:13):
can get revenge, if she can make it right, then
she's going to feel right.
Natasha G. (10:17):
You worked with Reed Morano who directed the first three
episodes of The Handmaid's Tale. What was it like working
with her?
Mark Burnell (10:23):
Truthfully, when I first met her here in London, I'd
sort of heard about her, but I hadn't seen Meadowland
and I hadn't seen Handmaid's Tale either. But she was
a name I sort of heard of anyway. I was
introduced to her by Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson. And
they said, " Look, it's very important to us that you're
happy with her before." So we met. And as soon
(10:45):
as I met her, as soon as we started talking,
I just thought, " Okay, this is going to be absolutely
fine." And we got on amazingly well. She had a
totally old views of how this should be. We're totally
locked, really from the first day. So yeah, I couldn't
have been happier. She's been terrific the whole way through.
Natasha G. (11:03):
And I'm curious to know about your thoughts of Blake
Lively playing Stephanie Patrick.
Mark Burnell (11:08):
So I sat through, I think it was 85 separate auditions for Stephanie.
Blake was not one of them.
Natasha G. (11:13):
85?
Mark Burnell (11:15):
85, yep.
Natasha G. (11:16):
Can you tell us who were some of the other
actresses that auditioned for it?
Mark Burnell (11:20):
There were two really real standout auditions, both English. That
was... But we'd always agreed here that no matter who
made this and how it should be, that Stephanie should
stay English. She should definitely be English on the screen.
So, most of the actresses who auditioned were English. And
there was Florence Pugh. Her audition was really fantastic, as
(11:40):
you would expect. And then there was another woman whose
audition, again, rather to my shame, I hadn't, I didn't
know who she was because I hadn't seen the series that
she was in over here, which is very, very popular.
Big sort of Sunday evening show called... Eleanor Tomlinson and
she's in the show called Poldark, which is this sort
of 17th, 18th- century thing set down in Cornwall. It's
(12:02):
a big costume drama. Her audition was absolutely extraordinary. I
mean, really amazing. Anyway, so... But anyway, there were about
half a dozen really standout ones, but Eleanor Tomlinson's was
the best. And then suddenly, I get a call from
Barbara saying, " Oh, by the way, Reed signed. She's definitely
directing." So, that was excellent. " And Blake Lively is going
(12:24):
to play Stephanie." It was like, " Really?" It's like, it came
as a total surprise. I have no sort of hesitation
about saying this now because of the way it turned out, but I was
slightly taken aback because I thought, " Well, this is not
who I imagined that was going to be playing Stephanie," because I'm mostly
familiar from her work. My daughter's a huge fan of
(12:45):
Gossip Girl.
Natasha G. (12:45):
XOXO.
Mark Burnell (12:47):
Well, exactly. And although, I had recently seen The Shallows.
I had recently seen The Shallows where she's in every
single scene, and it was terrific. But nevertheless, that wasn't quite
what I had in mind. But then from the first
day, the first day on the set was in Dublin.
The moment I saw her on the monitor, the way
(13:08):
she looked, her attitude, she looked terrible because it's right
at the beginning of the movie, she was (crosstalk)
shocking. But the way she looked and the way she got
into the car and her insolence and her accent, everything
was just like, " We're in safe hands here. We are
absolutely in safe hands." I mean, she really exceeded, I
think, everybody's expectation. And I would say that part of
(13:29):
that was probably due to the relationship she had with
Reed. I think Reed enabled her. I think Blake trusted
Reed enough, and that that meant that Reed was then
able to get this performance out of her.
Natasha G. (13:45):
Well, you see, I think that is a perfect example of
why people should go see this movie, because we want
to see what Blake Lively is going to do to
Stephanie Patrick and how she's going to perform. And I
think it's a role that's going to challenge her but
also, we'll see her in a different light. So, thank
you for that. What I'm interested in knowing, very briefly,
I'm sure there's a long process to it, but what's
(14:07):
the process from taking a novel and converting it into
a screenplay? Because I'm sure there's a lot of bits
in the book that are not included in the film
that we won't see.
Mark Burnell (14:17):
There are. Well firstly, the general first step that happens
in this process is that you should exclude the writer because-
Natasha G. (14:25):
Oh.
Mark Burnell (14:26):
Of the novel. Writers very, don't generally get asked to adapt their own
work for a very good reason actually, is that most
of them find it hard to butcher the book. But
for me, the book exists in its own right. It's
there. And so, we're making a movie, which is something
different, and it's not important that we hack up the
book, which was just as well because that's actually what
we did. You've read the book, there's way too much
(14:49):
in those pages to go into a one hour 45
movie. And that never bothered me. In fact, I found
that I really enjoyed that, having to sort of think
of something completely new and alternative, and just doing whatever
needs to be done to make the two hours work.
Natasha G. (15:09):
That's some great insight.
Mark Burnell (15:10):
And I really enjoyed that.
Natasha G. (15:10):
Yeah, no, that's some fantastic insight for any screenwriters out
there. Do you have any tips for them? Any last
words that perhaps some screenwriters are listening right now and
they're saying, " Oh, I'd love to find out some little
tidbits on how I can improve my work."
Mark Burnell (15:27):
The first bit of advice I would give is, would apply actually to
novelists and screenwriters, which is, just do it. And I
know this better than anybody. I spend an awful lot
of time finding excuses not to sit down and do
the work. And if you can get past that, just do
it. That's helpful.
Natasha G. (15:42):
I think we all do.
Mark Burnell (15:43):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And the other thing, this is something
I've sort of picked up the screenwriting on the way,
it's the dialogue is the dialogue but all the other
stuff, try to find... A lot of different people are
going to read your script and they're going to feel about
it differently, and you need to find a language that
is clear, it's going to be very economical, and not
(16:04):
be off- putting. There are scripts which are very off-
putting sometimes, to different eyes and to different sensibilities. And
you've got to, if you can find a sort of
a neutral way that isn't boring but is clear, that's
going to be incredibly helpful. That's something which I really
picked up along the way. And that was an unexpected
lesson, I would say.
Natasha G. (16:25):
Mark, thank you so much for taking the time to
speak with us today. We appreciate it.
Mark Burnell (16:29):
Well, thank you so much.
Natasha G. (16:31):
That's it for today. I hope you enjoyed this Girls
Get Even episode of Hello Movies, looking at women, revenge,
and the art of reclaiming your identity after trauma. The
Rhythm Section opens January 31st and Birds of Prey comes
at you February 7th. Plus if you like action, opening
this week on January 24th, The Gentlemen, an action comedy
written and directed by Guy Ritchie, starring Matthew McConaughey as
(16:54):
a marijuana kingpin who's looking to retire. Plenty of great
reasons to get down to your local Cineplex and check
out a movie. Don't forget to save me some popcorn.
I'm Natasha Gargiulo. Thanks for listening.
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