November 16, 2023 • 47 mins
Have you ever thought about the role trust plays in every facet of our lives, or the pivotal role of a road trip destination in shaping your journey? This episode unravels the intriguing concept of trust, from personal relationships to professional environments. We also take you on a virtual sojourn to Bucky's, a gas station that promises more than just fuel - scrumptious full restaurant offerings, spotless restrooms, and the irresistible aroma of fresh baked goodies, including the Texas-modified Czech pastry, coloches.
The journey doesn't end here. We pull back the curtain on the essentials of building trust in work relationships and share insights on giving and receiving constructive criticism, drawing from our experiences in the Toastmasters environment. Ever tried an enchilada soda or a jalapeno beer? We bring you a taste test from Bucky's exotic beverage menu and much more.
As we wrap up, we delve into the essence of transparency, trust, and effective communication in the professional world. Harness the power of micromanaging to get to know your new team members and build trust. Discover the art of active listening and why it's a game-changer in professional settings. If you're curious about the quirkiest soda flavors or eager to navigate the complexities of trust in relationships, you're in for a treat. Join us for this enlightening episode!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Help Yourself.
Food and Philosophy with Brianand Nick.
I'm Nick and I'm Brian.
Some are born trustworthy, someachieve trustworthiness and
some have trustworthiness thrustupon them.
Shakespeare almost said that Itweaked it yeah, which eating
(00:23):
Brian.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
That's from a true a true, a true, a true quote,
hound.
I don't know why I said that.
Anyway, true a true quote,hound.
I was trying to say true quoteand it came.
Anyway, you doing some, somemashups there Technically not
really mashup, but amodification of trust to suit
(00:45):
your needs.
I bet you there's a word in theEnglish language for that too,
some kind of weird word thatyou're like oh yeah, that's a
geliquely or something you know,and it's a anyway.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Well, it is now Thanks for calling that term a
jewel.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
A jewel like we do like Willie and adjusted to suit
your needs Exactly.
I'm going to start droppingthat into a conversation, all
right.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
What am I eating?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, so I know, in the last episode I did, I
regaled you with the tale of myhaving crab, but the this
episode, so this is again.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
these are all vacation stories because I your
crab shake, bringing the boys tothe yard Right, exactly so we.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
you'll be on a road trip going from one place to the
other.
You find places to stop, butthe big thing down here and I
know this is actually going tobe not to dox you too much, but
there's going to be one openingup nearer by you that's going to
be the largest one of these inthe world, by the way is oh no,
is Bucky's.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I think, isn't that one already open?
I don't know, I haven't beenout to your neck of the woods.
But okay, I'm pretty sure that,if it's not, it's being built
right now.
But anyway, that's that's becomein our last few road trips, as
for many people, that has becomeour, one of our destinations,
and part of the reason why,though.
I mean it sounds stupid thatyou're like you're going to go
(02:14):
to a gas station, but if youhaven't been to a Bucky's, it is
like the largest gas stationyou've ever been to a Walmart, a
full restaurant.
The restrooms are always clean,they have doors that go all the
way down to the floor, soyou're not sitting in a stall
with your feet dangling out oranything like that, and they're
always kept clean and everythingelse.
It's just.
It's just a very pleasantexperience for going to a gas
(02:36):
station.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So I just imagine the bathroom attendant going in
after every single person.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Right, exactly, yeah, exactly, we got to freshen up
in here, you know it feels likethat because they are, I mean
the, the bathrooms are very,they're very I don't know just
clean all the time.
You know what I mean.
So anyway, so we went there,got, we got.
(03:05):
We went there to go get food,to use the facilities and do a
little shopping, whatever, andalso fill up to take the gas,
because we were at the beginningof our you know, our reign and
man, they have got like a fullrestaurant in there that has
everything, I mean anything youcould think of and it's all the
(03:25):
other thing about is it's alllike fresh baked there.
It's not, you know, like theyhad.
I bought a little thing ofcinnamon glazed pecans, that
they literally take regularpecans and have them in these
little swirly machines and thenthey put the ingredients in and
it bakes and like, warms them upand glazes them right there and
then they put them in theselittle paper triangle things or
(03:47):
cone shaped things to sell toyou and man.
It's incredible.
So I bought that.
I had a, a collage I don't knowexactly how to pronounce this a
lot she collage, thank you.
So CHE is all of its pronouncedcollage, collage.
So is that what?
(04:08):
I didn't even know what it wasor what like.
Is that from a certain like, isthat like a Greek thing or
something?
Or is that like something?
What is that?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Is it come from Texas Like a made up thing?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
like.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
They're like oh, we're gonna call these collages,
right it's yeah, it looks likethere's one from Czech and
Slavic, but that's a pastry.
Yeah, in the United States theletter s is often added to the
end of the word collage to formthe word collages.
It's a double plural.
Okay, because the E at the endmakes it plural.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So yeah, so I got this collage, that is a collage.
It's basically like a bunaround a sausage of some kind
and it was like, in essence, ahot dog.
This one was a jalapeno cheese,colache and.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Right and I didn't know what I was see Texas.
Okay, well, I didn't put meatin, it makes it Texas.
Oh, got it.
The Czech version looks likeit's like just bread or Fruit,
like it's like a pastry like,yeah you know, like a cheese
Danish or a fruit Danish, butI'm putting jalapenos and meat
(05:24):
and it makes it Texas.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, yeah, well, I will say I'm now a Colache fan.
I had one of those and man, itwas really really good.
It felt it was like Goodsausage and it was spicy and it
was yeah, it was.
I was actually very enjoyableand it for me it's like
something that is not on par foryou.
Buying it at what is ostensiblya gas station, right?
(05:48):
I mean, you're yeah, and I knowthat they're not necessarily a
gas station.
It's like a lot more into it.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
But and I trusted.
I trusted the person who toldme how to pronounce it wrongly.
I'm looking that up to okay.
And well check version is Coloc, like it's just Coloc, okay,
and and then it's, I guess,coloc, uh, if it's plural, okay,
but then again, all this stuffbeing Americanized, we call it
what we want.
(06:14):
Yes which are kind of like.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Well, kind of like they.
Just a person that was inloxley Alabama that I said when
I said Colache, I would like ajalapeno sausage Colache.
They did not correct me, so soI don't know if that was correct
or not, but the point is just,I said it how I said it.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Nobody knows how to pronounce it, nobody knows
what's inside it.
It's right.
It's sort of trust that it'sgonna be tasty yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, and so they.
They did that, they dropping ina paper bag.
They put it in a little.
It's probably not called amicrowave in their thing, but it
was basically a microwave.
They heated up for like 30seconds or so, so it was nice
and warm and it was good and Iate that while.
And the other thing that's goodabout it is it's a really good
one-handed driving food becauseit's just it's got a bun all the
(07:01):
way around it, so stuff isn'tdripping out of it, it's, you
know, it was like self-contained.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
It's called dough, it's not.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
yeah, a bun Well, whatever.
Anyway it was good and it hadgood level of stuff, had a good
level of spiciness to it and thesausage was like I felt like a
quality sausage.
It wasn't like just like, oh,there's a hot dog inside this,
it was, you know.
It tasted like it had a good,good, decent sausage in there.
So so, yeah.
So I got that and my family gotother things to eat while they
(07:33):
were driving down the road andand oh, I did get a picture with
with Bucky while I was in there, because my wife wanted to take
a picture with the family withBucky.
So Statue.
It's just no, no it was a guy ina suit.
It was like an actual, live,live action Bucky.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
That's right.
People will say it's like it'slike Disney, the Walmart had a.
Yeah, it is yes.
The only thing is missing islike, just like rides.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
There's, there's no rides.
But I mean, man, they could addthat easy.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
So they got the people watching part down though
.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yes, yeah, it is crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Huge variety of clientele.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I've been in.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
And social economic standing, and well, I've been in
them all hours.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Like I've been in at 11 o'clock or midnight and I've
been in that one I was in andlike 10 o'clock in the morning
and same level of business bothtimes.
It was it's insane capacity.
Yeah, it literally you're tryingto dodge people while you're
walking around in there.
It's not like there's a dead ofnight time, like in the
midnight, where you're no, it'slike People will be, like no,
I'll plan my trip out so thatI'll hit the Bucky's and I'll
(08:39):
hit the next Bucky's and I'llhit the next Bucky's, you know,
because they're about 300, 400miles apart, which is probably
about the length of a tank ofgas, right?
So pretty smart Of them tryingto, you know, make that happen.
So so yeah, that's my Bucky'sexperience.
I have Brian's beverage corner.
I've got my water here in myNormal thing.
(09:02):
I've got a little tiny bit ofmy Protein coffee, almost done
with it, but the big piece deresistance, I don't know that
even means.
Anyway, you're gonna look it upfor me, look up what that means
, to make sure I didn't sayanything completely wrong anyway
(09:23):
.
So so in the last episode Italked about, I've talked about
balls, the energy drink, and andtoday we're talking about
sausages.
So this was so at that sameplace that I went to while I was
on vacation, where I picked upa bunch of cool drinks.
There were all these Lesterfixin's drinks.
(09:45):
I don't you ever heard of them,but they do quite a he does
quite a bit quite a variety ofdifferent drinks.
So let's see, and thecatchphrase is y'all get your
fixin's, okay, but if you lookin the, if you look in the your
camera, you'll see what sodathat I'm gonna drink here.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
The color is Natural.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I'm used to mountain dew like I would say mountain
dew colors natural but and bythe way, I have not tasted this,
so just so for the audience toknow, I this is Lester fixin's
In a bottle and it's enchiladasoda, and I have not tasted this
yet.
I just opened it a few minutesago.
Oh, dear, so this is gonna be alive on air taste test and see,
(10:36):
I'm actually a little bit afraidbut also a little bit excited.
So let's, let's see whathappens here.
Hold on a second.
Oh, wow, oh, it actually doestaste like enchiladas.
It tastes a little bit, ittastes a little bit sweet, but
it like the first flavor thatyou get is enchilada sauce in a
soda form.
(10:56):
So it's like, literally, andit's a little spicy too.
It's like a little Like there'sa little back of the throat
tickle, like you know, of thespiciness.
Yeah, I don't know if I'm gonnadrink this whole thing or not.
I might sip on it a coupleother times to see if the flavor
changes, but Interesting.
So yeah, that was that's.
(11:18):
My adventure today is trying tosee how this is gonna go.
But they did have a bunch ofother ones, and I may do a
couple other ones on futureepisodes.
But the, you know they had todeal pickle and they had like
all these other ones.
But then the other thing is, Idon't know if you've ever they
(11:40):
they have.
You know those like the jellybeans that were Harry Potter,
like the they had that gamewhere you could play where it
was like summer bad every flavor.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, they had some flavorsthat were like literally like
one was like bar flavored sodaand I'm like I'm not brave
enough for that, and one wasdirt.
It's a dirt soda, like dirtflavored soda, and I'm like I
don't even know what that is.
(12:01):
I mean, I know what that is,but do I really want to subject
myself to that?
And so I just letting theaudience know I will only go to
a certain extent for the podcast.
So it's a lot of soda and maybesome others coming up in the
future episodes are gonna bewhere I draw the line there was
(12:23):
a Beer my sister got and theycouldn't finish it and they're
like hey, nick, you try it.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Mm-hmm like spicy stuff.
It was a some kind of jalapenobeer really was the flavor that
was mentioned on there, but ittasted like spicy pickle juice
Really like a third of the waydown forcing it it was yeah.
It was like lime.
It tasted more like lime andpickle juice.
(12:52):
Wow was somehow spicy, which Iguess is the jalapeno part.
Yeah, it was that seems very,it was misguided yeah, it's
misguided Onto your piece to theresistance.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah you.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yes, you used it right and no, I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Like never, ever, do that again on the spot, gas it,
it looked.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
The literal translation is piece of
resistance, as you might write.
Yeah, it doesn't take a lot ofimagination right knowledge of
French to guess that, but itmeans the most important piece
or feature.
Okay, got it.
And it's usually regarding adish or a colleague of food, so
you used it properly and no, Idon't like it.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
All right, well, on that note.
What are you eating, oh?
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Well, okay, you got me beat.
Um, I see I had.
I'm still running off ofbreakfast from Starbucks.
So that was the the egg whiteand red pepper Egg bites which
are a little spicy, you knowkind of spicy eggs, spicy egg
(14:04):
snack.
Really good, as well as half ofa chocolate croissant.
Dory got to enjoy the otherhalf Awesome.
And because there wasn't enoughcheese in that mix, then I also
got a little bit of stringcheese, so kind of a very
(14:25):
disorbitant.
Also, as part of my Starbucksadventure, got the Nitro Cold
Brew with just a smidge of sweetcream.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Trying to taper that down, keep that down, as we've
discussed before, and that'swhere I got my name tag that I
took off you might have from ourprevious episode.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
It was good stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, I know that you want some of the coffee.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
That sounds good.
The Nitro Cold Brew is alwaysgood for a long time.
And there was something I wasgoing to say about the egg bites
.
Man, the egg bites are reallygood.
I had those recently and Ihadn't had them for a long time.
And of course I didn't get thepepper one, I got the Gruyere
and bacon, I think.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, the bacon.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Little bit higher in calories and no vegetables in
them, so probably a little bitless healthy.
I would say.
And I don't know that those areegg whites.
I think those ones were moreyellow in color but it might
have been the cheese in them,but anyway, yeah, I think it's.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
the ones that I had are egg whites.
Yeah, I didn't get them becausethey're egg whites.
I wanted the red pepper andthat's how it?
Comes.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I need to make some more of those.
I need to make some more ofthose because I have a silicone
mold thing that you can make eggdrops in the Instant Pot and it
really is super easy and youcan put whatever toppings or
whatever else.
For instance, those ones, thepepper ones, that Starbucks
don't have any cheese in them,but if you wanted to do red and
(16:04):
green and yellow peppers andthen a little bit of cheese in
there as well, then you coulddoctor them up.
However, your most custom wayis so yeah, well, that's good,
sounds gourmet.
It's super individualized andgourmet, right, but you want to
(16:24):
get into our topic?
We've been talking about trust.
In our last episode, we talkedabout trust and the basics of
trust and the concept of trustand the definitions of trust as
well, as we went down the pathof the trust that you put in
(16:45):
people that you might be don'thave a relationship with per se.
You might have an interactionwith them, but you're trying to
just walk through life and I gotall crazy with the death in
that.
So what we sort of wanted to gointo more so in this episode
(17:08):
and correct me if I'm wrong, Ithink we wanted to go into this
is more like the working type ofrelationships that we have and
longer term relationships.
I think that's what we weregoing to talk about, was that?
Am I wrong in that?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, we could go either way.
You want to talk about personallong term or professional long
term relationships.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Maybe let's start with the professional.
Many of the articles that Ipulled up when I first was doing
basic research on this, I hadto actually force the search
engine to give me articles aboutpersonal, because almost
everyone was like how to developor how to make sure that
there's trust in the workenvironment or things like that,
(17:52):
which is a different thing thanI think in a personal.
On a personal aspect, eventhough in many times, many times
, you're spending more time withthose people at work than you
do are with your loved ones ifyou're working a lot of hours,
or at least equal I think really, the first place that I was
(18:21):
going to talk about was just thedifference in what we talked
about in the last episode versusthis episode in terms of like,
now you're shifting almost yourbelief of, hey, now I'm going to
be given the opportunity tobuild a rapport or build a level
of trust with this personbecause I'm going to be
interacting with them over time,regardless of, as we talked
(18:49):
about in the last episode, whereyour trust level start, whether
you start as a skeptical personand you say, hey, you got to
earn my trust, or whether youstart as a trusting person and
then that people have anopportunity to lose your trust.
I feel like, in this case,everyone is under the assumption
that, hey, this is arelationship that I'm going to
have and so it's going to workbetter.
(19:11):
Going back to our baseline ofthis podcast, which is self-help
relationships work better whenthey have trust in them.
It may be a trust between thetwo people, it may be different
on both sides of that equation,but it's a working relationship
(19:32):
and those relationships aregoing to work better and be more
productive if there's a levelof trust.
Maybe we can start there with.
Since we already have thedefinitional things out of the
way, how about you start with soyou being somewhat of a leader
(19:54):
in your company and you behaving at least a team of people
that you're working with andsome levels in charge of and
you're guiding down the path?
How do you deal with that?
How do you deal with peoplethat come in, people that maybe
have a different level of trustthan you?
How do you build trust andrapport with the people you're
(20:14):
working with?
Wow?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
that's a huge.
Yeah, I was just like ready heyready Go.
Let's see.
I would start off by offeringthat one of my favorite topics
I'm sure this belongs on thebingo card would be that
difference or concept of betweenkind versus wicked learning
(20:42):
environments.
I would say that this landsneatly into the wicked learning
environment where it's morecomplicated.
It's not wicked in terms ofmoral, but just wicked in terms
of jagged and highly variable,highly varied situations,
multiple factors at play.
(21:03):
This is a quick.
For instance, one of the keyfactors in whether or not I can
trust any one employee overanother would be their tenure
and or work history.
How much time have they spentin this role or a role like it?
(21:27):
Can I trust that they know whatI'm talking about?
Can I trust that they know howeasy or hard something is?
Have they done something likethis before?
Yeah or not?
And how much like it have theydone it to be able to give an
estimate of whether they can doit at all, whether they can do
(21:48):
it quickly it's easier, hard,that kind of stuff.
Whether they'll need help.
So, even if they tell me thatthey don't need help, if I know
that they've not done it beforeor, coming back to history with
me, if they've told me beforethey don't need help, but more
often than not they do need help.
I'm probably going to go aheadand plan for them needing help.
(22:12):
Yeah Right, I trust they don'tknow what they're talking about.
It's not distrust, yeah.
It's just they haven't yetlearned something that I've
observed.
You know for the.
So it.
Yeah, there's a lot here andI've really only scratched the
topic.
Well, I'll yeah, those are someof the things that play here.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Well, I'll just interrupt you there and like,
because some of the things youmentioned were things that I saw
in some of the articles that Iread, and one of them is, you
know, talking about thatperson's behavior and you know,
have they modeled a certainbehavior that indicates they can
be trusted?
And that's exactly what you'resaying hey, how long has this
(22:56):
person been in this role or in arole like it?
And so I'm going to look atthat and I'm going to say well,
my assumption and again, this isanother thing we talked about
in the last is an assumption.
My assumption is if you'veworked in this role for five
years, here's your base level ofknowledge.
So I trust that you have that,I trust that you have learned
(23:16):
those things.
That doesn't always pan out, youprobably.
You know, sometimes peopledon't get the lessons.
They've been working in a rolefor quite some time and nobody's
ever pointed out to them like,hey, you, you need to know about
this.
If you're in this role likethis is something you should be
well versed in, right, right andit's like do they have five
years of experience or do theyhave one year of experience?
Speaker 1 (23:37):
They've lived five times Right, Exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah.
Well and how effective was theirprevious manager or their
previous supervisor, because aneffective supervisor is going to
point things out, just like wedo in Toastmasters.
You're going to say, hey, here,let me evaluate your
performance and give youpotential ways that you might be
able to improve that.
You're doing a lot of thingsgood, but here's how you could
be better, right, and so I thinkthat's the.
(24:03):
You know that doesn't, but Iwill say even that, like we talk
about, that's a level of trusttoo.
Like you have to feel like thatthat person's going to take
that evaluation in the right way, and I think that's what we
provide at Toastmasters is avery well at your workplace.
It's not necessarily theenvironment of Toastmasters.
(24:24):
Like we all walk into the doorof Toastmasters saying help me
get better and don't beat me uptoo much.
You know what I mean, unless Iask for it, like us that we've
been there for a long time.
We say, hey, don't, don't pullyour punches.
Like tell me exactly what I'mdoing, because I want to be
better and I've been doing thisfor X amount of years, and so
tell me exactly like I'm notgoing to take it personally.
(24:45):
I want to get better, whereasyou got to sort of temper that
in the but that's becausethere's been a level of trust
that's been developed therebetween those people and so,
same thing, it's like youwouldn't necessarily do that.
Hey, I've seen, you've beenworking, you've been working for
me for one week and let me tellyou everything you're doing
wrong, right, that that may bepremature, for that it may not.
(25:07):
I mean, the person might justbe somebody that's like, hey, I
can take evaluation, I loveconstructive criticism, let's go
.
But if they're not, then itcould go horribly wrong, and
that's because the level oftrust hasn't been built up Right
.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
So, yeah, one thing I've noticed to myself lately In
terms of like workrelationships.
I have experienced a betrayalof trust In terms of
responsiveness to email andemail from enough individuals
(25:39):
that I have learned to hateemail.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I don't trust email.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Like I have had a lot of work relationships, I don't
trust email.
I hate writing email because Iknow that the probability of
them reading it Period is low.
If they do read it, theprobability of them misreading
something is high.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And it takes me three hours to draft an email.
So it has the tone I'm goingfor, when I could just have a
conversation with somebody andhave the tone in my voice and
have that over in 30 minutes.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Right and get immediate feedback from their
response to my inquiry orcomment or whatever, right.
So it's like I don't.
I don't trust people to reademail by and large, so I have a
hard time writing it because Iwant to.
If I'm writing an email, I wantto be heard and then when I get
an email, that's very long Idon't trust that they've put
(26:38):
enough thought into it.
To be brief, you know, likelike it's just, it's very
frustrating that it's yeah.
So that's one area where I'velearned, like not learned.
I can't say I've learnedconsciously.
I learned subconsciously andI've only now realized why I've
(26:58):
learned to hate email In a senseof retroactively.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, Well, I feel like.
I'm on that same boat, but Ifeel like that is something that
you make an evaluation of ishey, and this is like maybe.
I mean, maybe this touches ontrust, but also it just touches
on communication.
In that how, what's the mosteffective way for me to send
(27:23):
this message?
Is it email?
Because many messages, the mosteffective and most efficient
way for me to do it is email,but there's a lot of
communications that are better.
You know that really shouldn'tever be an email.
They should be in person.
That I mean, you've heard we'veall heard the stories of like
people hey, I broke up with mygirlfriend via text or whatever
(27:45):
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Like yeah like that's you know, and that can be for a
number of reasons, but thepoint yeah exactly Exactly, but
you know the.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I think what you touched on to me is like.
Getting back to the idea oftrust, though, is, when you're
sending out an email, you knowyou.
Unless you know, like, forinstance, when you send me an
email, or when you send me atext, like I've been around you
for a long time, so like I canread, I can, I'm not reading
things into that text per se,you know.
I'm just saying, yeah, I'vebeen around you for a long time,
(28:20):
and this is what your questionyou're asking like and that's
straight-up question is not likethere's nothing reading.
Yeah, I'm not taking itpersonally or anything else.
That's whereas you know, butthat's because we have a level
of trust, and so like, until youcan Guarantee that the
relationship of the you knowbetween you and the person
you're sending the email to, hasa level where they aren't gonna
misunderstand, misinterpret,read into anything else, then
(28:44):
that it's probably better not tohave that communication via
email Until you, until you knowhow that person works.
You know what I mean, and so,um, you know that you.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I don't know if you were setting this up, if you're
already aware of it or what, butuh, that reminds me of a skit
by key and peel where they'retexting to each other.
Yes, I think I was wrong.
Yes, I'm gonna put a link, I'mgonna send the link to you and
we need that is the best I love.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
I love that I've watched that numerous times and
I laugh every single time.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's.
It speaks to this so perfectlylike exactly.
It's very short too.
I think the it's only a fewminutes, like three minutes.
I'm sure the censored versionis less than a minute.
Yeah, yeah, the censoredversion is almost three minutes.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the uncensored version has some
choice language, but but, yeah,but, but I think all yeah and
it's.
It does illustrate the point isthat you're texting and one
person has it has a completeimpression of yeah, you know,
just, I mean I'll let them watchthe watch the thing, but it's
just miss miscommunication atits finest and most funny
(29:57):
presentation.
So but, but, yeah, I think alsotoo, you know, it's interesting
for Like as an example.
So, like my work compared toyour work, like you're, you know
you're, you're with a team ofpeople, you're gonna be able to
spend some time with thosepeople.
(30:18):
And for me, I think that and Idon't do this consciously, this,
the way that I'm gonna say this, it sounds like I Always, at
least I always feel like I'mlike sound, sounding like a kind
of a Sales, kind of salespersonor shister, kind of like.
You know, I'm intentionally Idon't know just like a person,
like intentionally trying tolike Build trust, to try to get
(30:39):
somebody to buy something.
And that's not what I'm tryingto say here.
What I'm trying to say is thatin certain levels you have to,
the skill set is building trust,a higher level of trust,
relatively quickly meaning hey,this is the first time I've met
you and we're 15 minutes into anhour-long meeting.
What is your impression of me?
(31:00):
Right?
and and they have to be.
They don't have to trust me asa person, but they have to trust
that I can Effectivelyaccomplish their goal.
I can draft the trust.
Get it trust.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
We're talking about trust or trust anyway.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
That I can draft their will or their trust or
their powers of attorney or, onsome levels, that I can manage
their money, which is alonger-term relationship that
I'm gonna be able to developover time.
But many times, if I'm doingsomebody's legal work, it's not
a long-term relationship, it's arelationship that's for, you
know, a couple of months, andthen they might not talk to me
for a year or two or they maynever talk.
(31:38):
I've clients that I've, thatI've drafted their documents for
that.
It's been over well over adecade.
Actually, I just did an estateplan for somebody who I drafted
in 2008 their original thing andthey came back and now their
kids are all grown and theyneeded to change some of their
documents because, because theircircumstances have changed and
so so I don't have really, or soI had to reestablish that
(32:01):
relationship, even though theycalled me and said, hey, are you
still doing this work?
But I also have to.
I have to present myself in away that gives them reassurance,
you know, that gives them aFaith or a, you know, a feeling
that they can rely on me to dothe work.
That Right, right, and sothat's a different skill set
(32:23):
then.
Hey, I'm gonna be working withyou for years and years and
years potentially.
And so, like I said, I don't doit intentionally to try to as a
salesy kind of way, but Idefinitely want the to present
myself in a way that says look,I understand, I can, I'm a
hundred percent Confident that Ican help you with what you're
doing, but I need to talk to youabout your circumstances and
(32:44):
figure out what you need to getdone, and I will make sure that
the legal side of it is takencare of.
And I think I can't say thateveryone feels that way about me
.
You know, like I've met withpeople who I can tell you know
that they're just like mm-hmm.
Maybe not necessarily, but Idon't take it personally, but I
think I've met with people thatare Generally just trusting of
(33:05):
attorneys.
That you know, it's just a sortof a standard thing of like,
yeah, you know, this guy's alawyer and some people don't
trust lawyers, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
They're coming to the interaction, giving you a
negative trust balance right,Right exactly account?
Yeah, you can't.
You don't have enough Firstimpression material to cover
that balance, that negativebalance.
You know that's right.
It's not that you'reuntrustworthy, it's just they
needed a lot more assurance thanyou are prepared to give them.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yes, yeah, yeah but I think that's a, like I said, I
think that's a different skillset of and since we're on the
topic of just building trust,basically is in the professional
environment.
I think that's a lot of whatwe're doing is Either building
trust with a client, buildingtrust with it.
Now, I'm sure your company hasa sales force, you know, of some
kind, that is out there.
(34:00):
They're the front lines talkingto people that are going to be
using your services and thosepeople do have to like try to
gain Someone's trust at somepoint so that they can get their
foot in the door andpotentially have that person
partake in your services, youknow yeah, I think there's also
(34:21):
like the job interviews, firstday in the job.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah, you've got to Give a good first impression.
You almost have to Virtuesignal a bit and give people
reasonable you know, basicallyearn the benefit of any doubt
that you're trustworthy, thatyou're professional, that you're
(34:45):
competent, you know your stuffand you're willing to perform
that stuff in exchange for asalary.
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Well, and I will say that a couple of different and
this is hopefully maybe like,maybe dovetailing into a little
bit of a slightly different takeon this is many of the articles
that I read that were sometimein the last, you know, 10 to 15
years all were pointing to thefact that trust is generally
(35:16):
diminishing among people, whichis weird.
This particular one says andthis doesn't cite anything, but
it says research shows that only49% of employees trust their
senior management and only 28%believe CEOs are a credible
source of information.
So you know, doesn'tnecessarily mean I guess they're
(35:39):
distrusting, but that you know,in terms of a corporate
environment, you certainly wouldlove it if all of your
workforce trusted that your CEOwas a.
You know what your CEO said wastrue, right, or that at least I
could trust that right.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Right, I can act on that information.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yes, yes, and, and part of the reason I do that is
because this article was bySteven M R Covey, so but but one
of the things that they talkedabout this, this article
actually is entitled how thebest leaders build trust, and it
(36:19):
actually has basically 13behaviors, which, again, what we
talked about before.
What we're talking about istrust is to some extent, a
behavior.
You know.
You build trust by behaving ina certain way.
Right, so I can run throughthese real quick.
So the the 13 are talk straight.
They're only two word things,so it's pretty quick.
So talk straight.
(36:39):
Demonstrate respect, createtransparency, right wrongs, show
loyalty, deliver results, getbetter, confront reality,
clarify expectation, practiceaccountability, extend first,
keep commitments and extendtrust.
I listen first sounds a lotlike one of the seven habits,
(37:02):
Steven.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Anyway, yeah, so I think I was trying to keep up.
I could.
I only was able to like writedown every other one because you
were so quick.
That's okay.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
No, that's okay.
I mean you can forward me thelink and put that in the show
notes.
Yeah, yeah, but I think I thinkthat's one of the ways like
getting back to like theprofessional environment is how
do you build trust?
Is you got to act trustworthy?
And the question is that'sdifferent for each person.
So I can say that I do many ofthese things in my you know,
(37:37):
definitely straight talk,demonstrate respect and create
transparency.
Those first three that are onthere.
I try to be as as transparentas possible when I'm talking
with clients about how much doesthis cost?
What am I going to be doing foryou?
What you know?
What does this give you anexpectation of what this process
looks like?
(37:58):
What's the timeline for thisprocess?
When will you have your stateplanning done?
You know things like that, andso I think that gives people a
level of like.
Okay, I get like the thumbnailsketch here, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah, that you know.
As, as Nick Seger once said,bozos quote themselves.
That's something I've oftensaid at work, either talking
about ourselves or talking aboutother teams is that
transparency builds trust.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Right, right, like if , if I can see how you work,
then I can trust that you'll dothat again.
I can trust that's how you workand I'll just trust that.
That if you say you'll dosomething I've seen you do, I
will very much trust you Right,like the next time that
opportunity to the thing to bedone can be done.
(38:53):
And and I've often, I guess,warned people on my team when
they first start and I do mybest to follow this I'll
probably follow up with them tosee how well I've been doing at
this.
But whenever I hire someone new, like I'm kind of open with
them, like at first it's goingto feel like I'm micromanaging
(39:14):
you.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
You know, I want to know like every day, like what
you're working on.
I'll close you order.
I guess I kind of still do thatnow, but like I'll, I'll want
like a one-on-one conversationwith them every day.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yeah, and kind of an end of day review, because I
want to see how they think, Iwant to see how they work, I
want to know what they're reallygood at and maybe what they're
not so good at, so that way Ionly have to pester them about
things that they may not be goodat, right.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Or if they're working on something I know they're
great at, then I can back offand stay out of their way, right
and that.
So that basically is to say, atfirst I'm going to be a
micromanager because I need thattransparency, I need that depth
of knowledge about you.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
But, but then once we've kind of reached cruising
altitude, I can back off thethrottle.
I don't need to know everylittle thing.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Because, again, I know what you'll take care of
without my intervention or whatyou might occasionally need me
to follow up on, just to makesure you're not falling prey to
bad habits or whatnot.
But everybody's different,right, so some people are much
more independent, some peoplearen't, and I don't know that.
Even if I've gone through theinterview process like it
(40:26):
doesn't mean I know them verywell, right, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
I mean, I don't know if that's, but I think that
micromanagement is an expressionof a lack of trust.
Whether it's immediate,short-term, like I'm talking
about, that I think is somewhathealthy, or a very an inept
manager, an insecure managerdemonstrating micromanager
behavior, even trustworthycolleagues, that's really just a
(40:57):
word for not trusting yourpeople is micromanagement.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Right, yeah, yeah, I think that's a good way to sum
it up, I think the other onethat I wanted to mention, that I
think that many managers don'tdo, is the listen first one, the
(41:22):
one that I mentioned.
That sounds like one of theseven habits right.
I think there's a lot ofmanagers who talk and there's
not a lot of managers who listeneffectively, like listen in a.
What is that?
Listen like active listen,right Is.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
I'm listening.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
I'm not hearing what you're saying.
I'm listening to what you'resaying and I know that's a weird
, like cliche, distinction, butyeah but, it is.
it is a valid point.
That's what.
That's what we do inToastmasters too.
Is you know we talk about?
Hey, are you in our, in ourclub?
We talk about, you know, having, like, we ask questions about
(42:03):
have you been listening,actively listening to the
meeting?
Like, have you been?
Did you listen to the peoplegiving speeches?
Did you listen to what the jokewas?
Did you listen to?
So we have this little game, weplay a little bit where we say,
like, what was this person,what did this person say when
they talked about their quote oranything else like that, and
and I think that's, I think it'sa learned skill and I don't
think that it's taught inschools.
(42:24):
I don't think listening is isnecessarily taught in a way that
is hey, let me make sure youheard what I was saying.
You know is I'm going to saythis stuff and it's your job to
listen, but nobody teaches youhow to actively listen, and so,
yeah, so anyway, I think thatthere's.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
That's one of me.
The first betrayals of trustthat we learn as kids is that
you can talk and people mightnot listen right Like right when
mom, mom, mom mom, mom.
Mom, you know that wedesperately want to be heard and
people depending, depending onpersonality, right, everybody
(43:11):
learns the lesson that you won'talways be heard, but I think
the way people respond to thathas to do with personality.
So someone who's say achallenger will demand to talk
until they feel heard, right,and maybe even talk some more
just in case they weren't heard,whereas an introvert learns not
(43:34):
to talk.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Unless they have to be heard right Like the less is
more kind of approach.
Others might explain it athousand different ways and go
into all the details and tellsomebody says we get it, brian,
you can stop now.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
I knew you were going that.
I knew you were going to saythat Like right.
When you said that, I'm like oh, here it comes, here it comes.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
And for confession I do the same thing, Like I think
all of us step into thosedifferent sort of roles, right
or approaches to needing to beheard or feel heard.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Or I've heard you too hard.
No, no, no.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
We're all like this.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
It's interesting to me because I've had actually a
recent experience with someonewho was basically told I mean
just flat out told me like Idon't need you explain this to
me, I'm hiring you to do a job,and this is the tone that they
were using, by the way, and Igot the message very effectively
and quickly.
I was like, okay, I'll give youjust the information that you
want.
I'm not going to give, I'm notgoing to embellish, I'm not
(44:41):
going to try to anticipate anyquestions that you might have.
I'm going to give you the factsand that's all.
And that was my interactionwith that person.
But that's exactly what you say.
It's like you know, because Itry to do that, I try to
anticipate questions that peoplemight have, or you know things
like that, so that if theyalready trust you, you don't
need to be transparent.
(45:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
That's right.
You can just tell them what itis and they're like okay, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
They trust the black box.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
They know what it's supposed to do.
They don't need the details.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Well, this particular person.
I think it was because theysaid their initial statement was
I do this all the time, I don'tneed you to explain it to me,
so here, just give me theinformation I need.
So I was like okay, you do itall the time and guess what
happened, got messed up, anyway.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
The names are changed to protect the innocent.
Yeah, exactly, the names arementioned in this anyway.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Well, I think that's good for, like I said, our
working relations.
We're going to do one moreepisode of this trust stuff and
that's going to be our bonusepisode and we'll get a little
personal with it Personal trustlevels.
Why do we have to talk softlywhen we're I don't know All
right.
Circle variety Next time.
(46:03):
Yeah, exactly At the end ofthese episodes I just say next
time.
I don't say see you or hear youor anything, all right, bye.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
I'll be the next time .
Welcome to Help Yourself.
Food and Philosophy with Brianand Nick.
I'm Nick and I'm Brian.
Some are born trustworthy, someachieve trustworthiness and
some have trustworthiness thrustupon them.
Shakespeare almost said that Itweaked it yeah, which eating
(00:23):
Brian.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
That's from a true a true, a true, a true quote,
hound.
I don't know why I said that.
Anyway, true a true quote,hound.
I was trying to say true quoteand it came.
Anyway, you doing some, somemashups there Technically not
really mashup, but amodification of trust to suit
(00:45):
your needs.
I bet you there's a word in theEnglish language for that too,
some kind of weird word thatyou're like oh yeah, that's a
geliquely or something you know,and it's a anyway.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Well, it is now Thanks for calling that term a
jewel.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
A jewel like we do like Willie and adjusted to suit
your needs Exactly.
I'm going to start droppingthat into a conversation, all
right.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
What am I eating?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, so I know, in the last episode I did, I
regaled you with the tale of myhaving crab, but the this
episode, so this is again.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
these are all vacation stories because I your
crab shake, bringing the boys tothe yard Right, exactly so we.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
you'll be on a road trip going from one place to the
other.
You find places to stop, butthe big thing down here and I
know this is actually going tobe not to dox you too much, but
there's going to be one openingup nearer by you that's going to
be the largest one of these inthe world, by the way is oh no,
is Bucky's.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I think, isn't that one already open?
I don't know, I haven't beenout to your neck of the woods.
But okay, I'm pretty sure that,if it's not, it's being built
right now.
But anyway, that's that's becomein our last few road trips, as
for many people, that has becomeour, one of our destinations,
and part of the reason why,though.
I mean it sounds stupid thatyou're like you're going to go
(02:14):
to a gas station, but if youhaven't been to a Bucky's, it is
like the largest gas stationyou've ever been to a Walmart, a
full restaurant.
The restrooms are always clean,they have doors that go all the
way down to the floor, soyou're not sitting in a stall
with your feet dangling out oranything like that, and they're
always kept clean and everythingelse.
It's just.
It's just a very pleasantexperience for going to a gas
(02:36):
station.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So I just imagine the bathroom attendant going in
after every single person.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Right, exactly, yeah, exactly, we got to freshen up
in here, you know it feels likethat because they are, I mean
the, the bathrooms are very,they're very I don't know just
clean all the time.
You know what I mean.
So anyway, so we went there,got, we got.
(03:05):
We went there to go get food,to use the facilities and do a
little shopping, whatever, andalso fill up to take the gas,
because we were at the beginningof our you know, our reign and
man, they have got like a fullrestaurant in there that has
everything, I mean anything youcould think of and it's all the
(03:25):
other thing about is it's alllike fresh baked there.
It's not, you know, like theyhad.
I bought a little thing ofcinnamon glazed pecans, that
they literally take regularpecans and have them in these
little swirly machines and thenthey put the ingredients in and
it bakes and like, warms them upand glazes them right there and
then they put them in theselittle paper triangle things or
(03:47):
cone shaped things to sell toyou and man.
It's incredible.
So I bought that.
I had a, a collage I don't knowexactly how to pronounce this a
lot she collage, thank you.
So CHE is all of its pronouncedcollage, collage.
So is that what?
(04:08):
I didn't even know what it wasor what like.
Is that from a certain like, isthat like a Greek thing or
something?
Or is that like something?
What is that?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Is it come from Texas Like a made up thing?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
like.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
They're like oh, we're gonna call these collages,
right it's yeah, it looks likethere's one from Czech and
Slavic, but that's a pastry.
Yeah, in the United States theletter s is often added to the
end of the word collage to formthe word collages.
It's a double plural.
Okay, because the E at the endmakes it plural.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So yeah, so I got this collage, that is a collage.
It's basically like a bunaround a sausage of some kind
and it was like, in essence, ahot dog.
This one was a jalapeno cheese,colache and.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Right and I didn't know what I was see Texas.
Okay, well, I didn't put meatin, it makes it Texas.
Oh, got it.
The Czech version looks likeit's like just bread or Fruit,
like it's like a pastry like,yeah you know, like a cheese
Danish or a fruit Danish, butI'm putting jalapenos and meat
(05:24):
and it makes it Texas.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, yeah, well, I will say I'm now a Colache fan.
I had one of those and man, itwas really really good.
It felt it was like Goodsausage and it was spicy and it
was yeah, it was.
I was actually very enjoyableand it for me it's like
something that is not on par foryou.
Buying it at what is ostensiblya gas station, right?
(05:48):
I mean, you're yeah, and I knowthat they're not necessarily a
gas station.
It's like a lot more into it.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
But and I trusted.
I trusted the person who toldme how to pronounce it wrongly.
I'm looking that up to okay.
And well check version is Coloc, like it's just Coloc, okay,
and and then it's, I guess,coloc, uh, if it's plural, okay,
but then again, all this stuffbeing Americanized, we call it
what we want.
(06:14):
Yes which are kind of like.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Well, kind of like they.
Just a person that was inloxley Alabama that I said when
I said Colache, I would like ajalapeno sausage Colache.
They did not correct me, so soI don't know if that was correct
or not, but the point is just,I said it how I said it.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Nobody knows how to pronounce it, nobody knows
what's inside it.
It's right.
It's sort of trust that it'sgonna be tasty yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, and so they.
They did that, they dropping ina paper bag.
They put it in a little.
It's probably not called amicrowave in their thing, but it
was basically a microwave.
They heated up for like 30seconds or so, so it was nice
and warm and it was good and Iate that while.
And the other thing that's goodabout it is it's a really good
one-handed driving food becauseit's just it's got a bun all the
(07:01):
way around it, so stuff isn'tdripping out of it, it's, you
know, it was like self-contained.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
It's called dough, it's not.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
yeah, a bun Well, whatever.
Anyway it was good and it hadgood level of stuff, had a good
level of spiciness to it and thesausage was like I felt like a
quality sausage.
It wasn't like just like, oh,there's a hot dog inside this,
it was, you know.
It tasted like it had a good,good, decent sausage in there.
So so, yeah.
So I got that and my family gotother things to eat while they
(07:33):
were driving down the road andand oh, I did get a picture with
with Bucky while I was in there, because my wife wanted to take
a picture with the family withBucky.
So Statue.
It's just no, no it was a guy ina suit.
It was like an actual, live,live action Bucky.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
That's right.
People will say it's like it'slike Disney, the Walmart had a.
Yeah, it is yes.
The only thing is missing islike, just like rides.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
There's, there's no rides.
But I mean, man, they could addthat easy.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
So they got the people watching part down though
.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yes, yeah, it is crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Huge variety of clientele.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I've been in.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
And social economic standing, and well, I've been in
them all hours.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Like I've been in at 11 o'clock or midnight and I've
been in that one I was in andlike 10 o'clock in the morning
and same level of business bothtimes.
It was it's insane capacity.
Yeah, it literally you're tryingto dodge people while you're
walking around in there.
It's not like there's a dead ofnight time, like in the
midnight, where you're no, it'slike People will be, like no,
I'll plan my trip out so thatI'll hit the Bucky's and I'll
(08:39):
hit the next Bucky's and I'llhit the next Bucky's, you know,
because they're about 300, 400miles apart, which is probably
about the length of a tank ofgas, right?
So pretty smart Of them tryingto, you know, make that happen.
So so yeah, that's my Bucky'sexperience.
I have Brian's beverage corner.
I've got my water here in myNormal thing.
(09:02):
I've got a little tiny bit ofmy Protein coffee, almost done
with it, but the big piece deresistance, I don't know that
even means.
Anyway, you're gonna look it upfor me, look up what that means
, to make sure I didn't sayanything completely wrong anyway
(09:23):
.
So so in the last episode Italked about, I've talked about
balls, the energy drink, and andtoday we're talking about
sausages.
So this was so at that sameplace that I went to while I was
on vacation, where I picked upa bunch of cool drinks.
There were all these Lesterfixin's drinks.
(09:45):
I don't you ever heard of them,but they do quite a he does
quite a bit quite a variety ofdifferent drinks.
So let's see, and thecatchphrase is y'all get your
fixin's, okay, but if you lookin the, if you look in the your
camera, you'll see what sodathat I'm gonna drink here.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
The color is Natural.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I'm used to mountain dew like I would say mountain
dew colors natural but and bythe way, I have not tasted this,
so just so for the audience toknow, I this is Lester fixin's
In a bottle and it's enchiladasoda, and I have not tasted this
yet.
I just opened it a few minutesago.
Oh, dear, so this is gonna be alive on air taste test and see,
(10:36):
I'm actually a little bit afraidbut also a little bit excited.
So let's, let's see whathappens here.
Hold on a second.
Oh, wow, oh, it actually doestaste like enchiladas.
It tastes a little bit, ittastes a little bit sweet, but
it like the first flavor thatyou get is enchilada sauce in a
soda form.
(10:56):
So it's like, literally, andit's a little spicy too.
It's like a little Like there'sa little back of the throat
tickle, like you know, of thespiciness.
Yeah, I don't know if I'm gonnadrink this whole thing or not.
I might sip on it a coupleother times to see if the flavor
changes, but Interesting.
So yeah, that was that's.
(11:18):
My adventure today is trying tosee how this is gonna go.
But they did have a bunch ofother ones, and I may do a
couple other ones on futureepisodes.
But the, you know they had todeal pickle and they had like
all these other ones.
But then the other thing is, Idon't know if you've ever they
(11:40):
they have.
You know those like the jellybeans that were Harry Potter,
like the they had that gamewhere you could play where it
was like summer bad every flavor.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, they had some flavorsthat were like literally like
one was like bar flavored sodaand I'm like I'm not brave
enough for that, and one wasdirt.
It's a dirt soda, like dirtflavored soda, and I'm like I
don't even know what that is.
(12:01):
I mean, I know what that is,but do I really want to subject
myself to that?
And so I just letting theaudience know I will only go to
a certain extent for the podcast.
So it's a lot of soda and maybesome others coming up in the
future episodes are gonna bewhere I draw the line there was
(12:23):
a Beer my sister got and theycouldn't finish it and they're
like hey, nick, you try it.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Mm-hmm like spicy stuff.
It was a some kind of jalapenobeer really was the flavor that
was mentioned on there, but ittasted like spicy pickle juice
Really like a third of the waydown forcing it it was yeah.
It was like lime.
It tasted more like lime andpickle juice.
(12:52):
Wow was somehow spicy, which Iguess is the jalapeno part.
Yeah, it was that seems very,it was misguided yeah, it's
misguided Onto your piece to theresistance.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah you.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yes, you used it right and no, I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Like never, ever, do that again on the spot, gas it,
it looked.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
The literal translation is piece of
resistance, as you might write.
Yeah, it doesn't take a lot ofimagination right knowledge of
French to guess that, but itmeans the most important piece
or feature.
Okay, got it.
And it's usually regarding adish or a colleague of food, so
you used it properly and no, Idon't like it.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
All right, well, on that note.
What are you eating, oh?
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Well, okay, you got me beat.
Um, I see I had.
I'm still running off ofbreakfast from Starbucks.
So that was the the egg whiteand red pepper Egg bites which
are a little spicy, you knowkind of spicy eggs, spicy egg
(14:04):
snack.
Really good, as well as half ofa chocolate croissant.
Dory got to enjoy the otherhalf Awesome.
And because there wasn't enoughcheese in that mix, then I also
got a little bit of stringcheese, so kind of a very
(14:25):
disorbitant.
Also, as part of my Starbucksadventure, got the Nitro Cold
Brew with just a smidge of sweetcream.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Trying to taper that down, keep that down, as we've
discussed before, and that'swhere I got my name tag that I
took off you might have from ourprevious episode.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
It was good stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, I know that you want some of the coffee.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
That sounds good.
The Nitro Cold Brew is alwaysgood for a long time.
And there was something I wasgoing to say about the egg bites
.
Man, the egg bites are reallygood.
I had those recently and Ihadn't had them for a long time.
And of course I didn't get thepepper one, I got the Gruyere
and bacon, I think.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, the bacon.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Little bit higher in calories and no vegetables in
them, so probably a little bitless healthy.
I would say.
And I don't know that those areegg whites.
I think those ones were moreyellow in color but it might
have been the cheese in them,but anyway, yeah, I think it's.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
the ones that I had are egg whites.
Yeah, I didn't get them becausethey're egg whites.
I wanted the red pepper andthat's how it?
Comes.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I need to make some more of those.
I need to make some more ofthose because I have a silicone
mold thing that you can make eggdrops in the Instant Pot and it
really is super easy and youcan put whatever toppings or
whatever else.
For instance, those ones, thepepper ones, that Starbucks
don't have any cheese in them,but if you wanted to do red and
(16:04):
green and yellow peppers andthen a little bit of cheese in
there as well, then you coulddoctor them up.
However, your most custom wayis so yeah, well, that's good,
sounds gourmet.
It's super individualized andgourmet, right, but you want to
(16:24):
get into our topic?
We've been talking about trust.
In our last episode, we talkedabout trust and the basics of
trust and the concept of trustand the definitions of trust as
well, as we went down the pathof the trust that you put in
(16:45):
people that you might be don'thave a relationship with per se.
You might have an interactionwith them, but you're trying to
just walk through life and I gotall crazy with the death in
that.
So what we sort of wanted to gointo more so in this episode
(17:08):
and correct me if I'm wrong, Ithink we wanted to go into this
is more like the working type ofrelationships that we have and
longer term relationships.
I think that's what we weregoing to talk about, was that?
Am I wrong in that?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, we could go either way.
You want to talk about personallong term or professional long
term relationships.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Maybe let's start with the professional.
Many of the articles that Ipulled up when I first was doing
basic research on this, I hadto actually force the search
engine to give me articles aboutpersonal, because almost
everyone was like how to developor how to make sure that
there's trust in the workenvironment or things like that,
(17:52):
which is a different thing thanI think in a personal.
On a personal aspect, eventhough in many times, many times
, you're spending more time withthose people at work than you
do are with your loved ones ifyou're working a lot of hours,
or at least equal I think really, the first place that I was
(18:21):
going to talk about was just thedifference in what we talked
about in the last episode versusthis episode in terms of like,
now you're shifting almost yourbelief of, hey, now I'm going to
be given the opportunity tobuild a rapport or build a level
of trust with this personbecause I'm going to be
interacting with them over time,regardless of, as we talked
(18:49):
about in the last episode, whereyour trust level start, whether
you start as a skeptical personand you say, hey, you got to
earn my trust, or whether youstart as a trusting person and
then that people have anopportunity to lose your trust.
I feel like, in this case,everyone is under the assumption
that, hey, this is arelationship that I'm going to
have and so it's going to workbetter.
(19:11):
Going back to our baseline ofthis podcast, which is self-help
relationships work better whenthey have trust in them.
It may be a trust between thetwo people, it may be different
on both sides of that equation,but it's a working relationship
(19:32):
and those relationships aregoing to work better and be more
productive if there's a levelof trust.
Maybe we can start there with.
Since we already have thedefinitional things out of the
way, how about you start with soyou being somewhat of a leader
(19:54):
in your company and you behaving at least a team of people
that you're working with andsome levels in charge of and
you're guiding down the path?
How do you deal with that?
How do you deal with peoplethat come in, people that maybe
have a different level of trustthan you?
How do you build trust andrapport with the people you're
(20:14):
working with?
Wow?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
that's a huge.
Yeah, I was just like ready heyready Go.
Let's see.
I would start off by offeringthat one of my favorite topics
I'm sure this belongs on thebingo card would be that
difference or concept of betweenkind versus wicked learning
(20:42):
environments.
I would say that this landsneatly into the wicked learning
environment where it's morecomplicated.
It's not wicked in terms ofmoral, but just wicked in terms
of jagged and highly variable,highly varied situations,
multiple factors at play.
(21:03):
This is a quick.
For instance, one of the keyfactors in whether or not I can
trust any one employee overanother would be their tenure
and or work history.
How much time have they spentin this role or a role like it?
(21:27):
Can I trust that they know whatI'm talking about?
Can I trust that they know howeasy or hard something is?
Have they done something likethis before?
Yeah or not?
And how much like it have theydone it to be able to give an
estimate of whether they can doit at all, whether they can do
(21:48):
it quickly it's easier, hard,that kind of stuff.
Whether they'll need help.
So, even if they tell me thatthey don't need help, if I know
that they've not done it beforeor, coming back to history with
me, if they've told me beforethey don't need help, but more
often than not they do need help.
I'm probably going to go aheadand plan for them needing help.
(22:12):
Yeah Right, I trust they don'tknow what they're talking about.
It's not distrust, yeah.
It's just they haven't yetlearned something that I've
observed.
You know for the.
So it.
Yeah, there's a lot here andI've really only scratched the
topic.
Well, I'll yeah, those are someof the things that play here.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Well, I'll just interrupt you there and like,
because some of the things youmentioned were things that I saw
in some of the articles that Iread, and one of them is, you
know, talking about thatperson's behavior and you know,
have they modeled a certainbehavior that indicates they can
be trusted?
And that's exactly what you'resaying hey, how long has this
(22:56):
person been in this role or in arole like it?
And so I'm going to look atthat and I'm going to say well,
my assumption and again, this isanother thing we talked about
in the last is an assumption.
My assumption is if you'veworked in this role for five
years, here's your base level ofknowledge.
So I trust that you have that,I trust that you have learned
(23:16):
those things.
That doesn't always pan out, youprobably.
You know, sometimes peopledon't get the lessons.
They've been working in a rolefor quite some time and nobody's
ever pointed out to them like,hey, you, you need to know about
this.
If you're in this role likethis is something you should be
well versed in, right, right andit's like do they have five
years of experience or do theyhave one year of experience?
Speaker 1 (23:37):
They've lived five times Right, Exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah.
Well and how effective was theirprevious manager or their
previous supervisor, because aneffective supervisor is going to
point things out, just like wedo in Toastmasters.
You're going to say, hey, here,let me evaluate your
performance and give youpotential ways that you might be
able to improve that.
You're doing a lot of thingsgood, but here's how you could
be better, right, and so I thinkthat's the.
(24:03):
You know that doesn't, but Iwill say even that, like we talk
about, that's a level of trusttoo.
Like you have to feel like thatthat person's going to take
that evaluation in the right way, and I think that's what we
provide at Toastmasters is avery well at your workplace.
It's not necessarily theenvironment of Toastmasters.
(24:24):
Like we all walk into the doorof Toastmasters saying help me
get better and don't beat me uptoo much.
You know what I mean, unless Iask for it, like us that we've
been there for a long time.
We say, hey, don't, don't pullyour punches.
Like tell me exactly what I'mdoing, because I want to be
better and I've been doing thisfor X amount of years, and so
tell me exactly like I'm notgoing to take it personally.
(24:45):
I want to get better, whereasyou got to sort of temper that
in the but that's becausethere's been a level of trust
that's been developed therebetween those people and so,
same thing, it's like youwouldn't necessarily do that.
Hey, I've seen, you've beenworking, you've been working for
me for one week and let me tellyou everything you're doing
wrong, right, that that may bepremature, for that it may not.
(25:07):
I mean, the person might justbe somebody that's like, hey, I
can take evaluation, I loveconstructive criticism, let's go
.
But if they're not, then itcould go horribly wrong, and
that's because the level oftrust hasn't been built up Right
.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
So, yeah, one thing I've noticed to myself lately In
terms of like workrelationships.
I have experienced a betrayalof trust In terms of
responsiveness to email andemail from enough individuals
(25:39):
that I have learned to hateemail.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I don't trust email.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Like I have had a lot of work relationships, I don't
trust email.
I hate writing email because Iknow that the probability of
them reading it Period is low.
If they do read it, theprobability of them misreading
something is high.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And it takes me three hours to draft an email.
So it has the tone I'm goingfor, when I could just have a
conversation with somebody andhave the tone in my voice and
have that over in 30 minutes.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Right and get immediate feedback from their
response to my inquiry orcomment or whatever, right.
So it's like I don't.
I don't trust people to reademail by and large, so I have a
hard time writing it because Iwant to.
If I'm writing an email, I wantto be heard and then when I get
an email, that's very long Idon't trust that they've put
(26:38):
enough thought into it.
To be brief, you know, likelike it's just, it's very
frustrating that it's yeah.
So that's one area where I'velearned, like not learned.
I can't say I've learnedconsciously.
I learned subconsciously andI've only now realized why I've
(26:58):
learned to hate email In a senseof retroactively.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, Well, I feel like.
I'm on that same boat, but Ifeel like that is something that
you make an evaluation of ishey, and this is like maybe.
I mean, maybe this touches ontrust, but also it just touches
on communication.
In that how, what's the mosteffective way for me to send
(27:23):
this message?
Is it email?
Because many messages, the mosteffective and most efficient
way for me to do it is email,but there's a lot of
communications that are better.
You know that really shouldn'tever be an email.
They should be in person.
That I mean, you've heard we'veall heard the stories of like
people hey, I broke up with mygirlfriend via text or whatever
(27:45):
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Like yeah like that's you know, and that can be for a
number of reasons, but thepoint yeah exactly Exactly, but
you know the.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I think what you touched on to me is like.
Getting back to the idea oftrust, though, is, when you're
sending out an email, you knowyou.
Unless you know, like, forinstance, when you send me an
email, or when you send me atext, like I've been around you
for a long time, so like I canread, I can, I'm not reading
things into that text per se,you know.
I'm just saying, yeah, I'vebeen around you for a long time,
(28:20):
and this is what your questionyou're asking like and that's
straight-up question is not likethere's nothing reading.
Yeah, I'm not taking itpersonally or anything else.
That's whereas you know, butthat's because we have a level
of trust, and so like, until youcan Guarantee that the
relationship of the you knowbetween you and the person
you're sending the email to, hasa level where they aren't gonna
misunderstand, misinterpret,read into anything else, then
(28:44):
that it's probably better not tohave that communication via
email Until you, until you knowhow that person works.
You know what I mean, and so,um, you know that you.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I don't know if you were setting this up, if you're
already aware of it or what, butuh, that reminds me of a skit
by key and peel where they'retexting to each other.
Yes, I think I was wrong.
Yes, I'm gonna put a link, I'mgonna send the link to you and
we need that is the best I love.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
I love that I've watched that numerous times and
I laugh every single time.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's.
It speaks to this so perfectlylike exactly.
It's very short too.
I think the it's only a fewminutes, like three minutes.
I'm sure the censored versionis less than a minute.
Yeah, yeah, the censoredversion is almost three minutes.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the uncensored version has some
choice language, but but, yeah,but, but I think all yeah and
it's.
It does illustrate the point isthat you're texting and one
person has it has a completeimpression of yeah, you know,
just, I mean I'll let them watchthe watch the thing, but it's
just miss miscommunication atits finest and most funny
(29:57):
presentation.
So but, but, yeah, I think alsotoo, you know, it's interesting
for Like as an example.
So, like my work compared toyour work, like you're, you know
you're, you're with a team ofpeople, you're gonna be able to
spend some time with thosepeople.
(30:18):
And for me, I think that and Idon't do this consciously, this,
the way that I'm gonna say this, it sounds like I Always, at
least I always feel like I'mlike sound, sounding like a kind
of a Sales, kind of salespersonor shister, kind of like.
You know, I'm intentionally Idon't know just like a person,
like intentionally trying tolike Build trust, to try to get
(30:39):
somebody to buy something.
And that's not what I'm tryingto say here.
What I'm trying to say is thatin certain levels you have to,
the skill set is building trust,a higher level of trust,
relatively quickly meaning hey,this is the first time I've met
you and we're 15 minutes into anhour-long meeting.
What is your impression of me?
(31:00):
Right?
and and they have to be.
They don't have to trust me asa person, but they have to trust
that I can Effectivelyaccomplish their goal.
I can draft the trust.
Get it trust.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
We're talking about trust or trust anyway.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
That I can draft their will or their trust or
their powers of attorney or, onsome levels, that I can manage
their money, which is alonger-term relationship that
I'm gonna be able to developover time.
But many times, if I'm doingsomebody's legal work, it's not
a long-term relationship, it's arelationship that's for, you
know, a couple of months, andthen they might not talk to me
for a year or two or they maynever talk.
(31:38):
I've clients that I've, thatI've drafted their documents for
that.
It's been over well over adecade.
Actually, I just did an estateplan for somebody who I drafted
in 2008 their original thing andthey came back and now their
kids are all grown and theyneeded to change some of their
documents because, because theircircumstances have changed and
so so I don't have really, or soI had to reestablish that
(32:01):
relationship, even though theycalled me and said, hey, are you
still doing this work?
But I also have to.
I have to present myself in away that gives them reassurance,
you know, that gives them aFaith or a, you know, a feeling
that they can rely on me to dothe work.
That Right, right, and sothat's a different skill set
(32:23):
then.
Hey, I'm gonna be working withyou for years and years and
years potentially.
And so, like I said, I don't doit intentionally to try to as a
salesy kind of way, but Idefinitely want the to present
myself in a way that says look,I understand, I can, I'm a
hundred percent Confident that Ican help you with what you're
doing, but I need to talk to youabout your circumstances and
(32:44):
figure out what you need to getdone, and I will make sure that
the legal side of it is takencare of.
And I think I can't say thateveryone feels that way about me
.
You know, like I've met withpeople who I can tell you know
that they're just like mm-hmm.
Maybe not necessarily, but Idon't take it personally, but I
think I've met with people thatare Generally just trusting of
(33:05):
attorneys.
That you know, it's just a sortof a standard thing of like,
yeah, you know, this guy's alawyer and some people don't
trust lawyers, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
They're coming to the interaction, giving you a
negative trust balance right,Right exactly account?
Yeah, you can't.
You don't have enough Firstimpression material to cover
that balance, that negativebalance.
You know that's right.
It's not that you'reuntrustworthy, it's just they
needed a lot more assurance thanyou are prepared to give them.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yes, yeah, yeah but I think that's a, like I said, I
think that's a different skillset of and since we're on the
topic of just building trust,basically is in the professional
environment.
I think that's a lot of whatwe're doing is Either building
trust with a client, buildingtrust with it.
Now, I'm sure your company hasa sales force, you know, of some
kind, that is out there.
(34:00):
They're the front lines talkingto people that are going to be
using your services and thosepeople do have to like try to
gain Someone's trust at somepoint so that they can get their
foot in the door andpotentially have that person
partake in your services, youknow yeah, I think there's also
(34:21):
like the job interviews, firstday in the job.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah, you've got to Give a good first impression.
You almost have to Virtuesignal a bit and give people
reasonable you know, basicallyearn the benefit of any doubt
that you're trustworthy, thatyou're professional, that you're
(34:45):
competent, you know your stuffand you're willing to perform
that stuff in exchange for asalary.
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Well, and I will say that a couple of different and
this is hopefully maybe like,maybe dovetailing into a little
bit of a slightly different takeon this is many of the articles
that I read that were sometimein the last, you know, 10 to 15
years all were pointing to thefact that trust is generally
(35:16):
diminishing among people, whichis weird.
This particular one says andthis doesn't cite anything, but
it says research shows that only49% of employees trust their
senior management and only 28%believe CEOs are a credible
source of information.
So you know, doesn'tnecessarily mean I guess they're
(35:39):
distrusting, but that you know,in terms of a corporate
environment, you certainly wouldlove it if all of your
workforce trusted that your CEOwas a.
You know what your CEO said wastrue, right, or that at least I
could trust that right.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Right, I can act on that information.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yes, yes, and, and part of the reason I do that is
because this article was bySteven M R Covey, so but but one
of the things that they talkedabout this, this article
actually is entitled how thebest leaders build trust, and it
(36:19):
actually has basically 13behaviors, which, again, what we
talked about before.
What we're talking about istrust is to some extent, a
behavior.
You know.
You build trust by behaving ina certain way.
Right, so I can run throughthese real quick.
So the the 13 are talk straight.
They're only two word things,so it's pretty quick.
So talk straight.
(36:39):
Demonstrate respect, createtransparency, right wrongs, show
loyalty, deliver results, getbetter, confront reality,
clarify expectation, practiceaccountability, extend first,
keep commitments and extendtrust.
I listen first sounds a lotlike one of the seven habits,
(37:02):
Steven.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Anyway, yeah, so I think I was trying to keep up.
I could.
I only was able to like writedown every other one because you
were so quick.
That's okay.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
No, that's okay.
I mean you can forward me thelink and put that in the show
notes.
Yeah, yeah, but I think I thinkthat's one of the ways like
getting back to like theprofessional environment is how
do you build trust?
Is you got to act trustworthy?
And the question is that'sdifferent for each person.
So I can say that I do many ofthese things in my you know,
(37:37):
definitely straight talk,demonstrate respect and create
transparency.
Those first three that are onthere.
I try to be as as transparentas possible when I'm talking
with clients about how much doesthis cost?
What am I going to be doing foryou?
What you know?
What does this give you anexpectation of what this process
looks like?
(37:58):
What's the timeline for thisprocess?
When will you have your stateplanning done?
You know things like that, andso I think that gives people a
level of like.
Okay, I get like the thumbnailsketch here, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah, that you know.
As, as Nick Seger once said,bozos quote themselves.
That's something I've oftensaid at work, either talking
about ourselves or talking aboutother teams is that
transparency builds trust.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Right, right, like if , if I can see how you work,
then I can trust that you'll dothat again.
I can trust that's how you workand I'll just trust that.
That if you say you'll dosomething I've seen you do, I
will very much trust you Right,like the next time that
opportunity to the thing to bedone can be done.
(38:53):
And and I've often, I guess,warned people on my team when
they first start and I do mybest to follow this I'll
probably follow up with them tosee how well I've been doing at
this.
But whenever I hire someone new, like I'm kind of open with
them, like at first it's goingto feel like I'm micromanaging
(39:14):
you.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
You know, I want to know like every day, like what
you're working on.
I'll close you order.
I guess I kind of still do thatnow, but like I'll, I'll want
like a one-on-one conversationwith them every day.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yeah, and kind of an end of day review, because I
want to see how they think, Iwant to see how they work, I
want to know what they're reallygood at and maybe what they're
not so good at, so that way Ionly have to pester them about
things that they may not be goodat, right.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Or if they're working on something I know they're
great at, then I can back offand stay out of their way, right
and that.
So that basically is to say, atfirst I'm going to be a
micromanager because I need thattransparency, I need that depth
of knowledge about you.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
But, but then once we've kind of reached cruising
altitude, I can back off thethrottle.
I don't need to know everylittle thing.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Because, again, I know what you'll take care of
without my intervention or whatyou might occasionally need me
to follow up on, just to makesure you're not falling prey to
bad habits or whatnot.
But everybody's different,right, so some people are much
more independent, some peoplearen't, and I don't know that.
Even if I've gone through theinterview process like it
(40:26):
doesn't mean I know them verywell, right, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
I mean, I don't know if that's, but I think that
micromanagement is an expressionof a lack of trust.
Whether it's immediate,short-term, like I'm talking
about, that I think is somewhathealthy, or a very an inept
manager, an insecure managerdemonstrating micromanager
behavior, even trustworthycolleagues, that's really just a
(40:57):
word for not trusting yourpeople is micromanagement.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Right, yeah, yeah, I think that's a good way to sum
it up, I think the other onethat I wanted to mention, that I
think that many managers don'tdo, is the listen first one, the
(41:22):
one that I mentioned.
That sounds like one of theseven habits right.
I think there's a lot ofmanagers who talk and there's
not a lot of managers who listeneffectively, like listen in a.
What is that?
Listen like active listen,right Is.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
I'm listening.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
I'm not hearing what you're saying.
I'm listening to what you'resaying and I know that's a weird
, like cliche, distinction, butyeah but, it is.
it is a valid point.
That's what.
That's what we do inToastmasters too.
Is you know we talk about?
Hey, are you in our, in ourclub?
We talk about, you know, having, like, we ask questions about
(42:03):
have you been listening,actively listening to the
meeting?
Like, have you been?
Did you listen to the peoplegiving speeches?
Did you listen to what the jokewas?
Did you listen to?
So we have this little game, weplay a little bit where we say,
like, what was this person,what did this person say when
they talked about their quote oranything else like that, and
and I think that's, I think it'sa learned skill and I don't
think that it's taught inschools.
(42:24):
I don't think listening is isnecessarily taught in a way that
is hey, let me make sure youheard what I was saying.
You know is I'm going to saythis stuff and it's your job to
listen, but nobody teaches youhow to actively listen, and so,
yeah, so anyway, I think thatthere's.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
That's one of me.
The first betrayals of trustthat we learn as kids is that
you can talk and people mightnot listen right Like right when
mom, mom, mom mom, mom.
Mom, you know that wedesperately want to be heard and
people depending, depending onpersonality, right, everybody
(43:11):
learns the lesson that you won'talways be heard, but I think
the way people respond to thathas to do with personality.
So someone who's say achallenger will demand to talk
until they feel heard, right,and maybe even talk some more
just in case they weren't heard,whereas an introvert learns not
(43:34):
to talk.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Unless they have to be heard right Like the less is
more kind of approach.
Others might explain it athousand different ways and go
into all the details and tellsomebody says we get it, brian,
you can stop now.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
I knew you were going that.
I knew you were going to saythat Like right.
When you said that, I'm like oh, here it comes, here it comes.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
And for confession I do the same thing, Like I think
all of us step into thosedifferent sort of roles, right
or approaches to needing to beheard or feel heard.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Or I've heard you too hard.
No, no, no.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
We're all like this.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
It's interesting to me because I've had actually a
recent experience with someonewho was basically told I mean
just flat out told me like Idon't need you explain this to
me, I'm hiring you to do a job,and this is the tone that they
were using, by the way, and Igot the message very effectively
and quickly.
I was like, okay, I'll give youjust the information that you
want.
I'm not going to give, I'm notgoing to embellish, I'm not
(44:41):
going to try to anticipate anyquestions that you might have.
I'm going to give you the factsand that's all.
And that was my interactionwith that person.
But that's exactly what you say.
It's like you know, because Itry to do that, I try to
anticipate questions that peoplemight have, or you know things
like that, so that if theyalready trust you, you don't
need to be transparent.
(45:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
That's right.
You can just tell them what itis and they're like okay, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
They trust the black box.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
They know what it's supposed to do.
They don't need the details.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Well, this particular person.
I think it was because theysaid their initial statement was
I do this all the time, I don'tneed you to explain it to me,
so here, just give me theinformation I need.
So I was like okay, you do itall the time and guess what
happened, got messed up, anyway.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
The names are changed to protect the innocent.
Yeah, exactly, the names arementioned in this anyway.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Well, I think that's good for, like I said, our
working relations.
We're going to do one moreepisode of this trust stuff and
that's going to be our bonusepisode and we'll get a little
personal with it Personal trustlevels.
Why do we have to talk softlywhen we're I don't know All
right.
Circle variety Next time.
(46:03):
Yeah, exactly At the end ofthese episodes I just say next
time.
I don't say see you or hear youor anything, all right, bye.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
I'll be the next time .
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