August 15, 2024 • 60 mins
Ever found yourself craving a Chick-fil-A chicken sandwich only to realize you arrived during breakfast hours? That’s precisely what happened to me, leading to a surprisingly delightful discovery of chicken minis and the magic of Polynesian sauce. This episode kicks off with a philosophical reflection on the fleeting nature of time, seamlessly transitioning into a humorous recount of my fast-food adventure. We explore the emotional rollercoaster of food cravings and the unexpected joys that can emerge from unmet expectations.
Shifting gears, we dive into the mechanics of fast-food drive-thru efficiency, contrasting Chick-fil-A's sophisticated multi-threaded system with In-N-Out's streamlined simplicity. Along the way, we touch on the sentimental journey of replacing an old flask with a new, trendy hydration drink from Ghost, highlighting the playful quirks of modern beverage marketing. From homemade iced coffee mishaps to the intricacies of trademarked ingredients, this chapter offers a light-hearted yet insightful look at contemporary consumer experiences.
On a more profound note, we delve into strategies for navigating life's inevitable transitions, from job loss to retirement. Drawing from Tim Ferris’s fear setting and Jeff Goins' introspective framework, we discuss practical tools for managing change and fostering personal growth. With anecdotes ranging from bone broth substitutes to a Vietnam veteran finding joy in Call of Duty, this episode blends humor with heartfelt advice, underscoring the importance of preparation, mindset, and self-reflection in the face of life's ebb and flow.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Help Yourself.
Food and Philosophy with Brianand Nick.
I'm Nick and I'm Brian.
On what can the optimist andthe pessimist always agree?
This too shall pass.
What?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
you eating Brian?
Yeah, I mean, I guess that'strue.
You're right, it's not theglass.
There is a glass, yeah yeah, Iguess that's true.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
You're right, it's not.
It's not a?
Uh, the glass, there is a glass, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not.
The glass is not full, theglass is half empty.
At least we can agree thatthere is a glass.
No, no, it's.
This too shall pass.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Um, what am I eating?
Well, uh, so ironically,recently I went to.
I hadn't gotten to Chick-fil-Afor quite some time, and
actually I will say that it ismy fellow Toastmasters fault
that I did go to Chick-fil-A,because they were talking about
Chick-fil-A when I was hungryand it made me go to Chick-fil-A
.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
So you can also thank Tim Hawkins yeah.
Right right.
Remix of Chick-fil-A the song.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So I went to Chick-fil-A after a while this
is actually a little bit of asad story, because I went after
our Toastmasters meeting andthat was that obviously happens
in the mornings and so I wentover there and I was super
craving just the regular chickensandwich.
I was going to get the regularchicken sandwich and I was going
(01:30):
to get a half lemonade, halfunsweet iced tea, because they
make their lemonade and it haspulp in it and it's really good.
And so I get there and I order,and it was.
I got there before the peopleeven came out to the line.
You know that.
You know how they have peoplestanding out there to take your
order so they go back the lineso that it keeps the line going.
(01:50):
So those people were justcoming out.
So everybody had been orderingjust through the regular speaker
system.
And the guy came to my car andI was like, yeah, I want to get
the regular chicken sandwich.
He's like, sir, we're ordering,we're serving breakfast right
now.
We're not serving that.
I was like, ah, but I wasalready in line.
So I so I ordered some of thebreakfast, I ordered some
chicken minis and I ordered, Ithink, a uh, what was it.
Oh, it was a chicken, chickenegg and cheese.
(02:11):
Little chicken sandwiches yeah.
Chicken minis, yeah, exactlyyeah.
Give me, just, can you put achicken nugget on it for me?
Just just put a chicken nuggeton a bun, I'll eat that.
Um.
So I got chicken minis and Igot a, um, a chicken, egg and
cheese muffin.
So, like a, you know I I assumeit's the same chicken breast or
(02:32):
whatever and and because Iwanted chicken I didn't want to
get I was I was thinking I'lljust get a bacon, egg and cheese
.
I'm like, well, that's notwhat's chick-fil-a about that,
there's nothing.
That's it's big filet, that'spork filet that's pig filet, is
that?
pig filet I could eat thereseven times a day.
Let's go pig filet.
That sounds really notappetizing at all, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
weird how it sounds gross when we name the animal
right yeah, it doesn't soundgross when we yeah say.
You know chicken, like, like,like, if you said, hey, like.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
If you said like hey, do you want to, would you like
a cow sandwich?
You're like no, no, no, I wouldnot like a cow sandwich.
Oh, how about a hamburger?
Yeah, I'll take that anyway.
Yeah, I uh.
So I got, I got that.
A little bit disappointing, butthe chicken minis are really
good.
I always forget the buns are alittle bit disappointing, but
(03:25):
the chicken minis are reallygood.
I always forget the buns are alittle bit sweet.
And I got, uh, some ranchdipping sauce and some of the
Polynesian sauce, which isreally good.
I recently have discovered thePolynesian sauce and it's good.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
It's good what You're making a face like yeah just
everything's good.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
It's good, it's fantastic or fabulous, or, tasty
, I mean, or is it just good?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
like it's good, it's, it's yeah, I I will say it's
not, probably not my favorite.
You know, it's not like well, Idon't I mean adequate, I guess.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So here's, here's a crazy thing.
Just sounds mean, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
so you know how, like you know how, there are certain
things that you crave, whereyou're like you can actually
taste, and you're like, oh man,and you'll be just sitting
around one day and you're likeman.
You know what I haven't had,that it tastes so good you can
actually almost taste it.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
That's not this Right because you were craving the
chicken sandwich, not the tinychicken sandwich.
That's right.
That's right.
I was craving it with eggthat's right yeah, and I ended
up getting the thing.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And the polynesian sauce is good.
It's like a good for a change,because it's not a normal type
of sauce that I would get.
Like it's a sweeter kind ofsauce which I usually don't go
for.
The sweeter condiments, um, Iusually go for like the saltier
vinegary or you know, like youknow different, that kind of
savory kind of flavor and um andso, anyway, it was um, it was
(04:51):
good that, like I said, thechicken minis are always good.
I feel like it's a little bitof a cheat code though, because
you're it's literally like onebite per sandwich.
I mean, it's just like that wasgood.
There's another, there's,that's, that's good, you know.
So when somebody brings likeone of those platters of them,
I'm like how many of these haveI eaten?
Because they're, they go downtoo easy.
(05:12):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
So yeah, anyway, they're kind of like sliders
which, yes, the name itself,sliders like yeah, it's like
that.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
It's like that joke that my wife told me recently.
She's like, hey, um, would youlike that joke that my wife told
me recently.
She's like, hey, um, would youlike to eat, like, uh, like,
five or six, just um gigantictortillas?
You want to eat that and you'relike, no, I wouldn't.
I don't want to eat five or sixgigantic tortillas.
Okay, how about two baskets ofchips and salsa?
Okay, yeah, I'll eat that.
Like so, it's, yeah, it's all,it's all, it's all the form
(05:46):
factor, you know how do you eata giant stack of tortillas right
?
tortilla, yeah you, you fry them, you cut them up, you fry them,
you put some salsa with themand you eat that.
Five to six tortillas, justlike that.
So, uh, so yeah anyway, I gotthose, um, and I will say, like
(06:09):
I said, one of the things thatalways amazes me about
chick-fil-a is they just theirordering system.
Like the fact that they don't.
The fact that other restaurantsor other fast food places that
have drive-thrus don't do whatthey do is mind-boggling to me
is that other places will justhave a, they'll just have a line
, and they're like, oh well, Iguess there's not a different
way to do this.
And you're like, yeah, go tochick-fil-a, they'll tell you
(06:32):
how to do it, like you know.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, but I mean, on the other hand, like aside from
chick-fil-a, I don't know thatI've ever been in a drive-thru
as busy as chick-fil-a yeah, inand out.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So like you haven't been out to in and out, but in
and out it's always that way.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So which is?
Speaker 3 (06:47):
ironic that they're called in and out in and out and
it takes forever to get itexactly.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It's actually not in and out.
Actually, it's like in and thenwait for a long time and then
out in and eventually out.
They sure need to end up, thoughyeah, so no, so in and out does
the same thing, though in andout has somebody standing out in
the line taking the orders, andthey also never get them wrong
(07:14):
too.
That's the other thing, thatwhen you have somebody that's
doing that, right there it's,there's no, there's less of a
communication barrier, and so itjust makes the easy you you
know ordering that much easier.
Um, but it does make the linego faster just because, even
though, even though both of theplaces we just talked about have
long lines, it makes the linego faster because they're
(07:36):
cooking the food like way beforeCause, like, if you have
somebody moving their way backin the line, they've taken the
order of the whole line, so noweveryone's just waiting for, and
also also they take paymentremotely too.
So like literally the onlything you're doing when you pull
up to the window is they handyou a bag and your drink and you
keep driving.
I mean, it's so fast, so ittakes.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
It takes the process from being serialized, you know,
one after another.
Yeah to being multi-threaded,right, right it effectively
creates in one drive-thru linemultiple threads.
It's like a multi-lane highwayversus a one-lane highway.
That's right, you get morethrough faster, in part because
(08:17):
some cars are willing to gofaster right.
And similarly, some ordersdon't take as long to put
together, especially if, likeChick-fil-A, they pre-make some
stuff.
Oh yeah, I'm, sure they do theyhave drawers warming drawers for
their most commonly orderedfood yeah, For peak hours and
they can just take those andhand them off.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Which is something In-N-Out doesn't do.
But what In-N-Out does do tocombat that is they've only got
two things on their menu.
They've got got, you know.
Basically it's a hamburger, youknow like, you've got you know
one patty, or a double double,which is two patties, or you've
got you know any additions, youcan add things to it.
But they've got french fries,that's it.
No onion rings, no, anythingelse.
They don't have chicken on themenu.
They don't have hot dogs on themenu.
(08:55):
They've got shakes and they'vegot drinks, and that's it.
There's some.
That's how mcdonald's startedout.
Yeah, no, but the founder wasaccurate.
But what?
Yeah, and what I'm saying isthat they're the way they combat
that.
You know going, you know beingable to go fast, as they have a
limited menu.
So it's, even though there'sultimate, there's main major
(09:15):
customizations that you can do,it's anyway.
I don't know how this is, uh,our topic, but that's what we're
talking about for a second.
All right, I haven't evengotten to BBC.
So I've got my cup.
I'm finishing up a a little bitof my home homemade ice coffee
that I make with my coconutcream.
I've got my flask that has its.
(09:40):
Days are numbered, this flask.
You are dead to me, flask.
Anyway this is the flask thathas the thing.
I ordered a new one that'scoming.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
It's a milestone moment for you, Brian, to say
goodbye to that flask.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
It is, it has a lot of memories and hopes.
Right, hopes and dreams.
Yeah, and now it has nicks onit and it's dented nicks, Sorry.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
When I said that you made a face, you're like, hey,
hey, cut it out, buddy, what thehell, how rude anyway.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Uh.
So this drink I came across.
Uh, you remember in the lastepisode I talked about the, uh,
the, the ice, that, whatever,it's sparkling ice, um.
So I've done these beforeenergy drinks.
But ghost has now a hydrationdrink and so it's the brand name
(10:31):
ghost.
It has zero caffeine in it, nosugar, it's got electrolytes and
all kinds of good stuff.
It says.
It's got something calledaquaman in it, which has a tm
next to it, which means nothing.
It's a made thing.
And then they've got anotherone that's synact synactive 50
milligrams of synactive water.
That one has that one also has aTM next to it, so they're just
(10:54):
making crap up at this point andputting it in there.
Um, so this is the strawberryKiwi flavor has zero caffeine in
it.
Um bottle.
The whole bottle is 15 caloriesnot super healthy.
It's got less than one percentjuice, so it's not like a actual
thing.
But, um, but it tastes reallygood though.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Uh, it's, it's one of those things that.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So yeah, that's, uh, so that's oh how can they
trademark that?
Isn't that a superhero?
So this says synactive andaquaman.
That aquaman, what is this?
This is their trademark of marmarigot limited.
Wow, we're gonna.
We'd have to go on a deep diveto figure out the.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Oh yeah, the shell companies that have sticks in
this weird energy drink.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
It's just like yeah, we investigated it.
Our investigation ended in theCook Islands.
We can't get past that Turnsout.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
This bottle company is owned by your mom.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, turns out this bottle company is owned by your
mom?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
yeah, so that is what I'm drinking.
What?
What are you eating anddrinking?
Oh, that's a good question.
So I'm has I mentioned beforeI'm on the bone broth diet, but
this time it's not a cheat meal.
It's still delicious, though,though, like I think I could eat
this two or three times a week.
I think Dory might startdabbling in meal prep and
letting this be one of ourgo-tos.
It's scallop stir fry.
(12:36):
Oh yum.
Without the rice because of thediet right, like part of the
diet, like there's no starch, nopotatoes, very limited carrots,
if any.
Uh, no rice, no beans which Idon't know if beans is a starch
or not, but you get the idea.
Um, so it's.
(12:57):
It's basically just scallopsand vegetables and it's
delicious, you know broccoli,bamboo shoots, peppers, onions
and cooked in ghee or butter.
Yeah, so it's just so good.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Sounds really really good.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
It doesn't stay with you, but that's okay.
Yeah, because part of everymeal comes with like one or two
handfuls of nuts.
Oh yeah.
That's the.
It helps regulate your bloodsugar and feeling full long
terms out the day I feel like uh, seafood in general is like
that, like.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I feel like fish fish is very light, like I've
anytime I eat fish.
I'm on a diet and it's like I'mgonna eat, you know, salmon or
even scallops or shrimp oranything like that.
I don't feel like what comeswith.
It might be heavy, but theactual, if you just eat
something in a light sauce orsomething like that, it's almost
like a stir fry.
It doesn't.
(13:54):
You know what I mean.
It typically doesn't stay withyou for long, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Mm-hmm and then drink .
I have a bone broth.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Nice.
Is it flavored or is it just aregular standard?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
bone flavored, I guess I think yes, the original
flavor, which I believe is beef.
Um, and that reminds me.
I want to ask dory, or maybe dothe research myself I'm curious
if bouillon is acceptablebecause as a bone broth, yeah.
To be on the diet, like thediet itself has its own
(14:29):
marketing and its own productsthat you can buy, you know, for
convenience, Like yeah, you canmake your own bone broth.
Sure.
I mean you're literally puttingbones and water and boiling it
and making your house smell andyeah, but they also have packets
that are like basicallydehydrated bone broth and yeah,
(14:49):
the powdered stuff yeah but I'mwondering if that's the case,
and the bone broth is supersalty to begin with, so maybe
just cooking up some bouillonwould do just as well, and
that'd be much more affordablethan their yeah all the diet fad
marketing, you know yeah anyway, I I am enjoying the bone broth
(15:11):
.
It's tasty and I've got a glassbottle of water, of course
awesome staying hydrated.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It's important you're gonna be talking yes, that is
number one pointer for publicspeaking.
You know, ever since you saidthat now, if I don't, if I'm
someplace where I have to talkand I haven't had I don't have
something to drink, it's like apsychological like all of a
sudden my mouth is just like,just like completely dry.
You know, like, and I'm likedamn you, nick, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Maybe you just didn't notice before.
Right, it's when it finallyclicked is when someone said
something.
Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yes, so all right.
What are we talking about?
Yeah, let's end that segment,we're ending it.
End it.
End it right now.
We're beginning something new.
Now we're beginning somethingnew.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Now, actually, we're continuing our last episode with
the theme of endings.
Oh, it's time for our stevencovey reference.
We need to begin with the end.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Begin with the end in mind.
Bingo I just won.
You've mentionedtoastmasmasters, bone Broth and
you.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Toastmasters, I think was last episode.
No, I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
So, yeah, we're talking about sort of continuing
that conversation we had In thelast episode.
We talked a little bit aboutdifferent types of changes and
then, as we usually do, justmeandered through that
conversation, and then today wesort of wanted to go through
just that dealing with endingsin your life, um, ways to you
(16:56):
know, possible things that youcould use to to actually, you
know, I don't want to saytangible things, but things that
you can do in order to copewith endings, whether they be
within your control or notwithin your control, and whether
they be personal orprofessional or, however, in
whatever aspect.
I think there's a lot ofinteresting things about endings
(17:21):
, that and we talked about quitea few of them in the last
episode but a lot of it has todo with perspective, obviously,
um.
So do you want to start or youwant me to jump?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
in.
I want to end.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You want to end Like I do not want to start.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Well, yeah, we want to talk about dealing with
endings.
Yeah, Um, and I think we canstart with, maybe.
What is it?
An ounce of prevention beats apound of cure.
So maybe with the four thoughttechniques and then work our way
into after thought techniques,or just see how we meander into
(18:00):
it.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Work our way into the five thought technique and then
the six thought technique yeah,if we start with that four
thought situation, oh, it tooklike a second slow the tables
have turned.
I didn't even notice oh how theturntable um right around,
(18:24):
right around, um.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Um, there's tim.
I think this might have beentim ferris's first ted talk
perhaps his only ted talk, uh,but he he gave a ted talk on
what's called fear setting, andit's a planning tool.
Instead of goal setting, hecalls it fear setting.
And what it is is.
You just take a piece of paperand flip it to landscape mode,
(18:51):
so to speak.
Three columns the first columnis what you're worried about for
something.
The middle column is one thingyou can do to prevent that worry
from coming to pass.
Okay.
And the third column is onething you can do after the thing
(19:11):
passes anyway and you recoverfrom that having passed.
Yeah.
So like uh, I think lastepisode we talked about losing
your job Say, let's imagine I'mthat's.
How would that work in thiscase?
Yeah, I'm worried about losing,I'm worried about layoffs,
(19:32):
maybe that's like the header ofthe whole work.
You know thing.
Yeah, like a specific is um, I'mworried about income.
So, like, what's one thing youcan do to prevent income being a
problem?
Um, so maybe you go ahead andstart, as an example one, even
by 1%, helping to mitigate thatworry of income is going ahead
(19:54):
and start hunting for apart-time job, right, or a side
gig that you could do reasonablywell without sacrificing your
performance and your, the jobyou supposedly want to keep.
Um, but then recovery would bewould be going ahead and looking
up resources on unemployment asjust one example of one thing.
(20:15):
One thing you could do thatwould be at least 1% recovery
towards the thing that youwanted to overcome, specific to
losing your job, which wasincome.
But again, in that first columnyou would list all the specific
things you'd worry aboutrelated to losing your job.
Yeah.
Maybe the depression, or what doI tell my friends, or whatever
(20:37):
might come to mind.
Yeah.
And I think that's you'reliterally facing your fears
right.
Putting pen to paper and takingsome of that anxiety, that
anxious energy, and channelingit into something that's at
least a little productive.
It does a lot to sort of quietthat monkey mind.
(21:00):
Yeah.
And probably give you then themomentum you need to think
things through even further, todo more than 1% right.
Yeah, maybe you start a secondlist of idea generation on this
specific worry or you knowwhatever else.
So it creates an action planfor yourself to prevent the
thing.
You prevent losing, what youdon't want to lose, or recover
(21:23):
from losing the thing you don'twant to lose.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, and that that sort of goes with.
Um, so it seems like a littlemodified version of what Dale
Carnegie talks about and how tostop worrying and start living.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Really.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, cause he talks about basically looking at what
the worst case scenario is.
So what happens if this thinghappens and I fail at it?
Or if, again, if layoffs come,what happens?
Well, I'm going to be out of ajob and I'm going to do that,
you know.
So number one thing for him isto accept what he said.
Is you need, okay, accept thatthat's true, accept that that
(21:59):
thing is going to happen.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah, let's imagine that, that the worst has
happened, yeah, and so now.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Now do everything in your power to do slightly better
than the worst case scenarioCause to you that's the, that's
worst case scenario, right?
So now what can you do to maybe, maybe, not have worst case
scenario, but you're slightlybetter than worst case scenario
and you?
Know most.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
You know most of the time it ends up yeah, get it
less than the worst, yeah, andthen further improve upon that.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
That's right, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
And many times, through your action, you
actually avoid that scenariocompletely, because you're
actively doing things to preventwhatever you're worried about,
and so, therefore, it eitherdelays that or it avoids it
completely, Like the thing youwere worried about no longer
exists anymore, you know so yeah, um, the other thing I'll say
(22:56):
is it's a.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
It is amazing specific to like, not maybe not
amazing.
I'm being a little sarcastic,uh, but I'll just keep going
with it.
It's a little.
It's amazing how the peoplewith the most initiative seem to
be the best at avoiding layoffbeing laid off and the people
with the least initiative seemto be the best at avoiding
layoff being laid off and thepeople with the least initiative
seem to always get laid off.
Right, it's not a firing andlegitimately it's not a firing.
(23:20):
I imagine it has something todo with corporate or whomever
you know.
Higher ups say hey, we need tomake cuts in this regard, 20%
cuts from the department andresources.
The person who's forced to makethat decision is going to say
who can I stand to lose?
Yeah, yep, right.
And what are you doing to makesure you're not at the bottom or
(23:44):
the top of that list?
Right yeah.
You know, yeah, absolutely.
You avoid the worst casescenario?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Well, and it's, and funny thing is that's a factor
of two different things, youknow.
One of them is is this personproductive, like is this person
that gets their job done Right?
But then the other factor is isthis person difficult?
Like are they somebody who,like I, just I don't like.
They're great at their job butI don't like working with them.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Sure, or they require too much of my attention.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Right, exactly In a different way to phrase that.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yes, It'll give you positive attention?
Yeah, of course, but it's likeyou need people who have that
initiative that should workindependently.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And vice versa.
Yeah, If you need somebody whoneeds to be praised all the time
, like they need to be coddledand like, oh, you're doing such
a great job Again.
Oh, you're doing such a greatjob Again, like you're saying,
that's requiring a lot of effortand energy, that you're like
can you just do your job please?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Everybody needs and deserves praise.
Sure, of course, especiallywhen they're doing their job?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
well, absolutely.
But one of the things that wetalked about in the last episode
was basically the controlfactor.
So, like you talked in thataspect, you um, basically the
control factor.
So, like you talked in thataspect, you're talking about
layoffs, like you're worriedabout layoffs and that's not in
your control, like yourcompany's going through a thing
not in your control.
I found an article of a guy whowas talking about things that
(25:03):
were in your control and heposes the question is how do you
determine when to quit and whento stick?
So, when to stick with whatyou're doing or when to quit,
what are your?
Whatever that might be arelationship or a job or
anything else.
And he has a like.
Well, I'll say a three question, but it's three questions, and
then, once you answer thosethree questions, followed by a
(25:24):
fourth.
So I guess it's a four questionso so the first question is is
this thing causing me to grow oram I learning something from it
?
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Okay, To grow or learn, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
And then the second question is does this thing
bring me joy?
So is it making me, quoteunquote, happy, even though you
know, we know, happy has a lotof connotations, but does it?
Joy is different than.
Well, and he says the secondfollow-up to that.
He says does it resonate deeplywith me?
So like, do you have some levelof connection with this thing
(25:57):
in your life, either arelationship or a job or
whatever else?
The third question is is therestill a need for this in my life
?
So, do I right?
Do people still want this?
Is there a demand for it?
Does it you know?
So, things like that.
And then the last thing afterhe says, after you ask those
questions and sit with theanswers for a few minutes, he
(26:20):
said is this what I want?
So, basically, once you gothrough those things, then, you
say, yeah, but do I actuallywant?
like, yes, yes, and yes, yes, itcauses me to grow, yes, it
brings me joy, yes, there'sstill a need for this, but do I
still want this thing?
Right?
Do I still want thisrelationship or whatever else?
So I thought that wasinteresting, just because it
(26:41):
gives you.
It gives you like somethingtangible that you can frame.
It's sort of like you'returning the turning the page
sideways or looking at worstcase scenario.
All of these are just framingtechniques.
Going back to that perspective.
It's like how do I getperspective on this thing?
Like how do I, you know, ifit's out of my control, how do I
cope with the fact thatsomething's going to happen like
(27:03):
that there's going to be achange forced upon me, versus I
feel like I might need to make achange.
Do I know that I need to make achange?
I don't know.
I don't know I need to.
How do I figure that out?
And so both of those sides ofthe equation are framing that
perspective, I think, anddealing with that.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
It seems like a solid framework.
I think the only way I'd everbe able to make any kind of
change or adjustments to itwould be through practice Right,
and change or adjustments to itwould be through practice right
, and I think, yeah, that wouldbe up to the individual.
You know, however, I tweakthose questions to serve me
wouldn't necessarily serve youright or anybody else.
So you basically take thisgeneric and make it personal
(27:45):
yeah customize it to your own.
You know personality or needs,narrative, whatever yeah, yeah
but that's, that's good.
I like it.
What's?
What's the guy's name?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
let's give him a little more credit his name is
wow, I'm gonna be embarrassed um.
It is a web.
Oh, it's jeff goins or goinsg-o-I-N-S, and it is at the
website Goinswritercom, soG-O-I-N-S-W-R-I-T-E-Rcom.
Nice.
And this looks like.
(28:21):
Let's see, I'm just trying tosee if I can find a date on this
.
A lot of times these like blogsand like these kinds of things.
They don't put a date, theydon't like date.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Stamp it, so sure like these kinds of things.
They don't put a date, theydon't like date stamp it, so
sure, um, I don't see a date.
That's considered like a bestpractice now, so that way, your
evergreen content can feelevergreen rather than putting it
if you wrote it five years ago.
Even though it still applies,people will feel like it's old.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yes, yeah, when I do that, I'll be like oh, this is
from like three years ago, butit's like you know, like you
said, it's a topic that hasn'tchanged.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
So yeah, so when there's a couple of other um
frameworks in dealing withchange or endings, welcome or
otherwise?
Uh, yeah, that we talked, we.
We cited or referenced thechange curve and the grief curve
(29:10):
.
Yes, Um so like the, the way youwould apply that is just at
least a peak at self-awarenessand read like what what
bargaining means, read whatacceptance means and sort of do
a temperature check and askyourself like where am I at on
this process?
And the only thing I would, Iwould point out, is the curve is
(29:35):
kind of like a guideline yeah Ithink it's still very true that
you know we all grieve in ourown way.
Meaning the, even though it'sshown as a curve, I think
everyone, the plot that everyonetakes to each of those points
can vary.
And sometimes they go back andforth, like people can go to
acceptance, back to bargaining,back to acceptance.
(29:57):
You know, there's even, I think, a meme out there that shows,
you know, the change curve onthe left, um, and then, and
that's just like what, what,what grief looks like to
academics.
And then, on the right, it'swhat grief looks like to you.
Yeah.
And it's just scribbles.
Yeah.
It's the same dots of the curvebut then it's just scribbles
(30:19):
connecting the dots.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
But I think that's true.
Honestly, I think that that, atleast my personal belief is
that you know, that's where thatsquiggle is, where counseling
or some other um, and that mightnot be counseling but it might
be you gotta have some kind ofexternal factor that helps.
And for some people that's likeyour minister or your, you know
your religious structure.
(30:43):
For some people it's self-helpbooks, for some people it's I
don't know, it could be anythingright, it could be just
whatever.
Yeah, friends or a socialnetwork or whatever.
It is Not social network in thesense of social networking, but
yeah.
But, like you know, you're,you're, you're, you're people
you're surrounded you with, andI think you know it's funny that
(31:03):
you mentioned like going backand forth between two things,
because I think that's, I thinkthat's a source of a lot of
things in our lives Like wevacillate between certain things
, Like we, we, instead ofdealing with something and
accepting it, like getting tothe final stage of acceptance,
we just constantly are like Idon't, it's, like you don't want
to accept it, and so you justkeep going back and rehashing
(31:25):
and rehashing and rehashing andyou never, you never, deal with
it.
You know.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Or or you're, you're at a point where like, oh, this,
this is depressing, I neededsomething needs to change.
Yeah, you know.
So you move like you move alongthe curve, or you move to a
different data point but ithappens to be backwards.
Right, you know like you moved,you went the wrong direction.
So, not the wrong direction,but a less effective direction.
Yes, right, and it may be abetter question to look at these
(31:53):
curves and ask yourself whichone have.
I haven't experienced yet withthis problem.
Yeah, yeah.
With this end, and I do thinkthat every unwelcome change has
grief to it.
Yes.
Losing a loved one, eitherthrough death or through divorce
(32:13):
or you know um heck, even whensometimes I go through a little
bit of depression and grief whenDory goes on vacation, like
yeah.
I've got coping mechanisms, Iwill gravitate to old bad habits
, cause I I don't know how todeal with missing her.
You know, I try to avoid thatfeeling and I'll distract myself
(32:34):
from it, right?
But um, yeah, I think.
And then another tool that I'veheard is is used in in
psychology and just other kindsof self help, is the hero's
journey.
Yes.
Following the storytelling arcsthat exist out there.
Yeah.
(32:54):
Even like the three actstructure, like sort of imagine
yourself as the protagonist insome story and do a literary
analysis of what's happened andwhere you're at and like what
would be next for a protagonist.
Yes.
You know if they have?
Have you met the mentor yet?
Are you in the valley ofdespair?
Yeah.
Have you faced the evil one,you know?
(33:16):
Have you gotten the?
Yeah, whatever it is, theallies and the enemy.
Have you met your allies andenemies yet?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
What might they look like in your current situation?
Or what would a friend looklike in this situation?
Yes.
And then it can help, like yousaid, externalize yeah, what
you're going through and sort ofhelp you activate your
conscious thinking and tamp downa little bit of the emotion
which can cloud your.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I always love that because I this is a, you know I,
what I've noticed is, at leastfor me, I enjoy and have enjoyed
, like doing drama and thingslike that in the past, past
points in my life.
You know, and it's somethingthat you're using, this thing
and you like it almost unlocksdifferent I don't say different
(34:15):
parts of your brain, but that'sI mean it probably does, but it
it unlocks different levels for,to use a video game reference,
you know, um, that when you dosomething repetitively, like
public speak, things come out ofit that you don't even realize,
like you didn't, you weren'teven in it for that and it all
of a sudden you're like, oh, youknow what this?
I have this fringe benefit ofthis other thing and one of the
(34:36):
things that I always like aboutI always liked about, um, you
know, being in plays and doingdrama things is I got to do an
act like something that I wasnot was very, very uncomfortable
for me, but it made itcomfortable because I knew that
I was acting, but I knew, but itmade me ask myself the question
(34:57):
of like, how would a personthat acts like this, so, getting
back to the Enneagram, stuffbingo cards out again?
Um, getting back to Enneagram.
You know I might ask myself howwould an eight act in this
certain circumstance?
So I get to act like an eightin in my, you know, in that.
But even though if I did thatthing in real life I would be
(35:17):
super uncomfortable and Iwouldn't do it, I'd be too
uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Right, but but it's okay because everyone knows,
everyone around you knows you'repretending Right.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Exactly.
But you get, but you get likealmost this benefit of like wow,
that felt great.
Like that felt actually great toyell at someone, like just to
just unleash on someone, eventhough you knew you weren't
doing it for real.
Your body doesn't know thedifference.
It's that it's the same thingas meditation or prayer or
whatever else is like.
Your body doesn't know thedifference.
Like if you're visualizingsomething that's why people use
(35:46):
visualization something, that'swhy people use visualization,
because because your body can'ttell the difference If you're
visualizing, visualizingsomething in your mind, then
you're, you're envisioning Imean, you're envisioning it,
you're you're basically tryingto make as realistic of a
picture of that thing and you'realso putting that on it.
How.
But how would I act if, in myideal world, I was the most
confident, I was the mosteducated, I was the most
(36:08):
whatever I needed to be for thatcircumstance and so you know
it's interesting with the changestuff, because that's I think
that also would be is a valuablequestion is like and I've heard
that said is like how, andactually almost any circumstance
you can say how would a personthat has what I want to have or
(36:30):
is like I want to be, how wouldthat person act in this
circumstance?
So, like you know, even if whatwould jesus do?
Yeah, exactly, and that's whatwould I do.
Right, that's the whole basisof it.
But you can say, I can say how,and, and that may be based upon
like bad information that Ihave is like that.
I think, oh, that person wouldjust be fully confident and they
wouldn't care at all.
(36:50):
And it's like, maybe on theinside they totally care.
But from my perspective I'mgoing, yeah, but this is what I
want to feel, like, you know,and and so.
So I think that has to be a bigquestion that can help quite a
bit, like, like, even, just like, and we had Austin on, you know
, for the fitness, you knowtalking about yeah.
(37:13):
And you know, talking aboutdieting and like your diet is
whenever you're about to eatsomething say hey, is a person
like, a person that is at thehealth level that I want to be
at, or the weight that I want tobe at, or whatever else, would
they eat this thing?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
And if the answer is probably not, then you probably
shouldn't eat that thing.
It almost becomes a real easyif you can put yourself in the
mindset of somebody that's likeyou want to be.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Would a fit person eat this?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yes, and so yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
So, yeah, I think that recognizing like these
different personalities areasking you know what would this
person?
I would like time to think onthings.
Sometimes an emergencysituation all you can do is
react but like right.
(38:18):
If you're trying to make adecision of you know, buy, build
, rent or not, or just no change, or if you're right, whatever,
um ask well, okay, what wouldjesus do?
Or what would this personadmire do?
yeah what would a fit person do?
What would a fat person do,like, um?
Because each, each of thosepeople do exist inside you,
(38:44):
right?
You know, um, I've beenre-listening to a book called
the e-myth revis, and it talksabout how everyone has three
different people inside themwhen it comes to like starting a
business.
There's the, the technician,the entrepreneur and the manager
.
Okay.
And all three are at odds.
But he also talks abouteverybody hasn't to tell prove
(39:05):
his point.
Um, there's, I promise I'malmost done.
Um, you're fine.
There's the skinny guy and thefat guy.
Uh-huh, like everyone in themhas a skinny guy and a fat guy
yep and there's that period likemaybe it's six months.
You're just missed, mr or mrs.
Discipline getting up in themorning's easy, yeah, and
fitness gear.
(39:25):
You're on a tear, you're goingto bed early, you're waking up
early, you know, you know whatyou want and there's no question
about whether you should pursueit.
Um, and because the skinny guyhas finally woken up, he's
finally gotten sick of the fatguy yeah but then what happens
is the, the fat guy in the gets,breaks out of his, his prison
(39:51):
you know cause he's hungry andangry and needs sugar or
whatever it is.
The sugar demon is the bonebroth diet calls it.
Right.
And it gets activated.
It gets in the driver's seatbut, like those people exist
within us.
Yeah.
And if at every turn you listento both and then answer the
question, like you were sayingokay well, I have listened to
(40:13):
looking at my body and andseeing myself on camera and this
web call or whatever it is.
Yeah, I listened to the fat guya little too often.
I'm going to listen to theskinny guy this time.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Well, and I, I uh, on that note, you know, there's a,
there's a battle that, uh, thatgoes on with me, as that being
a nine, being a people pleaseris when you're, you know, like,
so, a lot of times I'm like inthe mindset of the more fit
person or the person that's like, hey, I'm, here's what I'm
gonna do, I'm gonna plan thisout, I'm gonna do all this stuff
(40:44):
, and then I, you knowsomebody's like, hey, you want
to go out to dinner.
I'm like, yeah, sure, yeah,let's go out to dinner.
You know, and that's a littlebit of an excuse on my part,
cause there's a lot of peoplethat go out to dinner a lot and
they aren't, you know, they,they make good choices, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
So, you know but but, but it is as a nine.
It's easier or harder, or theway it makes that situation is
hard for you I'm sure there'sdifferent examples for all the
personalities and and hard forme too, Cause I remember feeling
this when we had our gettogether recently to say goodbye
to a member who's moving, youknow, and whatnot.
(41:24):
Like I, dory and I did animpromptu cheat meal, like it
wasn't part of our plan, butlike I didn't want, in front of
everyone, to make them feeluncomfortable yes, as in, partly
because of my nine, but likeI'm just gonna take, do what
everyone else does be a part ofthe group, not worry about it.
You know um, but that that wasthe the pattern of thinking that
(41:47):
I gravitate towards as yes,yeah, and I want everyone else
to feel comfortable, so I'm notgoing to get.
Actually, I think I did getbroccoli as a side.
I still got the hamburger whichyou know, but I did get
broccoli instead of fries.
Um, but it was definitely acheat meal for sure.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Well, there's another peer pressure.
There is another thing that Ipulled up.
Uh, somebody named DianaToscano, that is.
Let's see what her website isDiana Toscanocom.
Hey, look at that.
Um, and so she wrote a thingthat was coping with endings,
how to honor an ending before anew beginning, and there's
(42:29):
tangible steps in here.
Um, she talks about you know,she actually talks about some of
the things we talked about inthe last episode, which one of
the examples she uses are.
It was the Sunday blues, youknow, just like um, I can't
remember if we talked about thatlast episode or this episode,
but anyway, basically, um, shegave.
(42:50):
Let's see how many steps shegave.
Five steps, and there's.
Each one of them has a quite abig description, but, um, but
I'll read the five steps thatshe has.
So, five ways to learn how tocope with an ending by honoring
it with all the reverence andcompassion it deserves.
So one is give yourself time.
Two is acknowledge yourfeelings.
(43:10):
Three, practice acceptance,which we have been talking about
.
Four, connect with positivepeople.
And then five, be kind toyourself.
So obviously there's abreakdown of each one of those
things that she gives, but Ijust think I always love it when
people, um, whether they'reblogging or whether it's a
(43:33):
self-help book or anything elsethat they give you just like
very structured steps of like,here's you know, here's what you
can do, um, it makes it alittle bit easier, so easier, so
on, um, somewhat of anextemporaneous you know tactic
(43:54):
is um some specifics on like howto stay true to yourself, like
if, if you're into self-help atall, like brian and I, are mr or
mrs audience member rightyou've probably done like the
values exercise, where you'vecome up with words that mean a
lot to you, maybe more than itdoes to other people.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Just if you've done that and if you haven't, I
recommend it.
Just, there's plenty of formsonline.
It'll give you a list of wordslike integrity, dignity, honesty
, curiosity, great gratitude youknow stuff like that, yeah, and
(44:33):
you just pick your top fivelike what means the most to you.
So if you've done that exercise, maybe pull out that list of
hopefully no more than fivewords and ask yourself okay,
dealing with a situation my, mygrandparent passing or losing my
job, or losing this board game,what like, whatever it is yeah,
(44:55):
and asking yourself okay, howcan I maintain my value of
integrity in this situation, howcan I maintain my value of
connection in this situation?
Or you know, whatever thosefive words are, and, um, at the
very least you can, you know,quote be true to yourself.
Yeah, Um, not lose yourself inthis.
(45:20):
Um, grief.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, I think, um, you know the, the interesting
thing about the, what you justsaid, as well as what we were,
what this person says on theirwebsite is a lot of it goes back
to you like this is you know,in a few of these they talk
about it's you like giveyourself time, acknowledge your
feelings, practice acceptance,connect with positive, be kind
(45:44):
to yourself.
You know so, you know it'sbasically it's almost giving you
kind to yourself.
You know so, you know it'sbasically it's almost giving you
permission to to say like, hey,it's okay that you don't feel
that great about what'shappening, but you know, just
know that there's ways to dealwith it and that that the um,
you know, nothing is foreverkind of thing.
(46:06):
You know.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Well, and you saying that gave me another idea that
you know.
When you said it's, it's allyou lots of time, not lots of
times, I shouldn't say lots oftimes.
Some have said that you know,depression is sort of a function
of being too focused on theself and not as active.
(46:35):
That does sound a lot likeblaming the victim.
At the same time, like peoplewho are shut in and isolated
tend to feel depression moreRight shut in and isolated tend
to feel depression more right.
And people who are connected andhave a social group, you know
friends and family to spend timewith.
Um.
So there's, there's a bit of abit of both.
(46:58):
It's no, it's not black andwhite for sure, yeah, but but
just kind of recognizing thatthat there and say there are
layoffs and maybe you weresomebody who laid off, but
you're not the only one who waslaid off, like how can you
connect with other people orhelp other people through that?
Um dory has an excellent speechabout how realizing how, when
(47:21):
others are going through a toughtime, she gives really good
advice, but when it comes to herown life, not so much.
Yes.
But it was like the whole speechis that epiphany of I can
listen to my own advice.
Yeah Right, like I.
Just like I help other peoplewhen they have problems.
The same kind of help I givethem I give to others.
And if you are going through atough time, find other people
(47:44):
who are going through a similartough time, help them with the
help they need.
But pay attention to the helpyou're giving.
Take note like, oh, I can getthat help myself, that's the
help I need.
It's another way to externalizewhat you.
It's sort of sheds that lighton your own blind spot, part of
whenever I felt depressed.
(48:04):
A lot of times I don't knowwhat I need, I don't know.
I don't even know why I feeldown, yeah um.
But then, as I'm helping otherpeople think and fill through
their problems, I have thoselittle light bulb moments for
myself like, oh yeah, that'swhat I need to do, um yeah, it's
another way to potentially getyourself out of your own head,
(48:25):
um is finding similar people,helping them and then taking
your own advice.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
It's interesting that , on that note, like I, you know
, it's like it's a in a personwho has had low self-esteem.
It's like I've I've been toldbefore.
Would you so would you ever sayto what what you say to
yourself?
Would you ever say that toanother person to their face?
Like, would you, would you everspeak as meanly or as
(48:54):
negatively to anyone?
Uh, the way that you speak toyourself in your head.
And if you wouldn't, then whyare you doing it yourself?
Why are you beating yourselfdown and sort of the same
thing's like you know, likeyou're not giving yourself
permission to do anything.
Everybody else has full reign,full reign and full permission.
(49:14):
And, um, you give them thebenefit of the doubt, but you
don't give yourself the benefitof the doubt, you know, yeah, so
it's, it's a strategic thing.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
But if a friend of mine does say stuff like that,
like like I'm so stupid, yeah,I'm so lazy, and like if, if
they get, if it's clear thatthey're on that kind of spiral,
yeah well, just to break themout, I'll be, I'll literally say
like how dare you yeah don'tyou ever, ever talk to my friend
like that, ever again yeah ortalk about my friend that way,
(49:44):
like yeah, you know, yeah, um,it's like okay, we're saying
that yeah with you or anyoneelse.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Like don't ever talk about my friend that way yeah
because it's not true, you knowwell, and the steven covey uh,
bingo cards out again.
The steven.
You know steven covey talksabout argue for your weaknesses
and they're yours, you know?
So, like if you're.
If you're like, yeah, man, I'mjust like if you're.
If you're like, yeah, man, I'mjust so dumb.
And you're like, no, you're notdumb, you're not done.
(50:11):
You're like, yeah, I'm totally,I'm totally idiot, I can't, I
just can't get this right.
I'm stupid, I'm stupid, I'mstupid.
Okay, then you are like you'regoing to create that.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
If you, if you keep saying you're gonna get it, so
it certainly doesn't help youlike, stop making that same
mistake, right?
Speaker 1 (50:29):
yep, that's the answer to the problem yeah,
because I'm stupid.
It's not.
I learned from my mistakes,right?
So I'm gonna do somethingdifferent next time.
Yeah, because I'm stupid, soI'm doomed to keep doing the
same right stuff I see, I toldyou, I told you, this is what
stupid people do.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Is they do this?
You know, it's like that thatsounds.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
That sounds like a nate bargatze bit.
It's like you couldn't avoidthis, man.
I try to tell you, yeah, butyou, you went up and talked to
me this.
This isn't much your fault, asit is my fault yeah, um, let's
see what else, what else.
There are some specifics, solike if say, end of life.
(51:11):
Yeah.
You know, I mean you're notgoing to toot your own horn, but
you do wills and trusts.
That's a great way to plan andface that particular kind of
unwelcome end.
Mm-hmm.
I would also say that somethingI've recently learned about and
therefore know very little about.
(51:31):
But there's this thing called alike an end of life doula or a
death doula yes and it's kind oflike an anti-midwife or someone
who yes or like if if hospiceis like giving birth is the
opposite of giving birth in ahospital, Then the sense that I
(51:54):
get is doula is the opposite ofgetting a midwife.
Right, I'm not saying that verywell at all, but I think you
get the yeah.
The parallelism.
Like I said, I know very littleabout it, but when I first
heard about it I was like that'sreally interesting.
Um I mean, it makes thatcottage industry, you know yeah,
someone just helping someone,both the person who's passing
(52:15):
and the people who are, I guess,going to be passed yes uh, deal
with that and go through that,that grief with, yeah, holding
someone's hand who's familiarwith the process, you know, a
professional, a professionalfriend if it were.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Yeah, yeah, and I think I mean I think that, from
what I've seen in in dealingwith people on on different, you
know, from differentperspectives of either they've
lost a loved one or they'redealing with their own mortality
, um, I, I feel like that someof the stuff that I do for some
(52:53):
of my clients, or for most of myclients, is that, uh, it's,
it's proactive, so it'ssomething that you know,
something that hasn't happenedyet.
You know, um, but they're tryingto make sure that the things
that they want to get done getdone and um, and so you know
that I feel like it does createlike a peace of mind kind of
(53:16):
thing, and that's that's one ofthe things that needs to come
out of an ending of you know.
Is that, you're, it's actually,it's sort of what you talked
about earlier in this episode,which is the mind was.
It was like prepping, it's likeprepping for an end, um, uh,
fear setting yeah, fear settingyeah, which is basically you're,
you know you're, you'rechanging your mindset, you're
(53:38):
trying to like wrap your headaround this thing's going to
happen.
What do I need to do to preparefor it?
Speaker 1 (53:44):
And so, and there are different um, I mean when it
comes to end of life or like endof a youth.
Two different things, but partof the journey, part of the
whole life cycle we all share,you know right.
Um, there's not much you can doto prevent, like coming back to
(54:06):
a fear setting.
There's things you can do toprevent the fear and there's
things you can do to recoverfrom the fear, right, and I got
to wonder, like think, if menand women respond differently to
the loss of vigor, to the lossof vigor.
(54:27):
Men go through their midlifecrisis and buy the sports cars
or get the mistress and get allkinds of relational trouble.
Women stereotypically get themakeup and the Botox or cosmetic
surgery.
Imagine if that money andattention was instead invested
(54:52):
in like health care, yeah, orsaving right before health care
costs and retirement, or, um,just be being ready for the loss
of vigor.
Cause you can do, you can spendfortunes preventing the
appearance of the loss of youthor, or actual, you know, loss of
(55:16):
youth, right?
Or you could know that it'scoming and just make sure that
you're ready when it happens.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
Yeah, um well, and our friend Ed Zinkowitz does
that for to some level, is youknow what?
How are you going to?
You've just made thistransition in your life, granted
, I think it all, I think it isall tied to death.
I think people, people think,hey, when I stop working and I
stopped doing somethingproductive, and I quote unquote,
retire.
(55:43):
I think part of your brain is ohwell, I'm sort of retiring from
life a little bit, retire, Ithink part of your brain is oh
well, I'm sort of retiring fromlife a little bit, and you know,
and, and that means that I'mgetting closer to death and uh,
and so I feel like what Ed doesis he talks about, he talks with
people about how to cope withthat aspect of your life which
is you're going through thischange.
(56:03):
It's a change just like anyother change, and so how are you
going to fill this these yearsand years and years of your life
that you didn't?
Really nobody ever teaches youto do that.
Everyone teaches you.
You work, you become productive,you save your money, you get,
you know you to the point whereyou can stop working, but nobody
ever says okay, what are yougoing to do now?
Like, even let's take the moneyaspect out of it and say there
(56:27):
isn't any issue with money.
Let's just say you don't haveto worry about money.
What are you going to do withall that time?
Like it could be.
I mean, people are livinglonger and longer and longer.
Speaker 1 (56:37):
So I'm going to live the dream Netflix and video game
.
Speaker 2 (56:40):
Exactly, there's going to be like 85 and 90 year
olds that are uh, you know, justcall of duty and you know any
kind of.
Speaker 1 (56:51):
I mean, the 14 year olds need something to shoot out
, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
That's what I'm saying.
I actually saw a video.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
Oh my gosh, it's some weird.
Speaker 2 (57:02):
On that note, I saw recently a video this is not
even having any deal with oranything to do with our, with
our subject, but it was a.
It was a gentleman who was a, Iwant to say he was a vietnam
veteran and he was playing callof duty for the first time and
he was like sniping people withsniper rifle and the joy in the
guy's face like it was just thecraziest thing, because he would
(57:22):
like, he would be like way faroff in the distance and he'd
like lead them with the shot andhe'd shoot, and then you just
see the like the puff you knowlike from that character in the
video game dying and he justlike hits him.
He's like oh, this is great,this is so awesome.
Speaker 1 (57:36):
Like it's just like well, yeah, the thing that got
me laughing was that,stereotypically, the ones who
are really good at video gamesare youth and Asians, yeah, and
so like there's this weird punthat can be made for youth in
Asia, killing all the old men onvideo games and player versus
(57:57):
player combat, right, right, youknow Rather than you know real
life.
Right, right.
Wars, because that's.
Speaker 2 (58:12):
Oh man, ok, yeah, dark humor.
I apologize.
Real life, right, right, wars,because that's oh man, okay,
yeah, yeah, dark humor.
I apologize, exactly, um, Ithink that's about it for our
subject is it time to end theconversation already?
Speaker 1 (58:23):
I think so I've done what I could to prevent.
Now I have to work withrecovery um, what I was good.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
There was one other thing that I was gonna bring up.
I think it was just a quote orsomething like that, but I know
now I can't remember what it wasum, I think, um.
Speaker 1 (58:44):
You know, it's often said that great minds think
alike, and you know, good thingscome to an end.
But the truth is, all mindsthink alike.
Right, like great minds thinkalike, but so do slow minds
think alike as well.
Yeah.
(59:04):
And yes, good things come to anend, but bad things do as well,
and that sort of takes back tothe.
This too shall pass yeahthere's.
There's a bit of stoicism, theidea that, yeah, you're going
through some crap right now andtake comfort that this will pass
.
But you know, don't get tooexcited when you're going
through a great moment, becausethat too shall pass right right,
(59:27):
all good things come to an end,so do all bad things yeah,
there's there's an ebb and aflow.
Nothing lasts forever exactly.
Speaker 2 (59:40):
All right, I think we've, I think we've ended
appropriately and bye.
Welcome to Help Yourself.
Food and Philosophy with Brianand Nick.
I'm Nick and I'm Brian.
On what can the optimist andthe pessimist always agree?
This too shall pass.
What?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
you eating Brian?
Yeah, I mean, I guess that'strue.
You're right, it's not theglass.
There is a glass, yeah yeah, Iguess that's true.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
You're right, it's not.
It's not a?
Uh, the glass, there is a glass, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not.
The glass is not full, theglass is half empty.
At least we can agree thatthere is a glass.
No, no, it's.
This too shall pass.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Um, what am I eating?
Well, uh, so ironically,recently I went to.
I hadn't gotten to Chick-fil-Afor quite some time, and
actually I will say that it ismy fellow Toastmasters fault
that I did go to Chick-fil-A,because they were talking about
Chick-fil-A when I was hungryand it made me go to Chick-fil-A
.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
So you can also thank Tim Hawkins yeah.
Right right.
Remix of Chick-fil-A the song.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So I went to Chick-fil-A after a while this
is actually a little bit of asad story, because I went after
our Toastmasters meeting andthat was that obviously happens
in the mornings and so I wentover there and I was super
craving just the regular chickensandwich.
I was going to get the regularchicken sandwich and I was going
(01:30):
to get a half lemonade, halfunsweet iced tea, because they
make their lemonade and it haspulp in it and it's really good.
And so I get there and I order,and it was.
I got there before the peopleeven came out to the line.
You know that.
You know how they have peoplestanding out there to take your
order so they go back the lineso that it keeps the line going.
(01:50):
So those people were justcoming out.
So everybody had been orderingjust through the regular speaker
system.
And the guy came to my car andI was like, yeah, I want to get
the regular chicken sandwich.
He's like, sir, we're ordering,we're serving breakfast right
now.
We're not serving that.
I was like, ah, but I wasalready in line.
So I so I ordered some of thebreakfast, I ordered some
chicken minis and I ordered, Ithink, a uh, what was it.
Oh, it was a chicken, chickenegg and cheese.
(02:11):
Little chicken sandwiches yeah.
Chicken minis, yeah, exactlyyeah.
Give me, just, can you put achicken nugget on it for me?
Just just put a chicken nuggeton a bun, I'll eat that.
Um.
So I got chicken minis and Igot a, um, a chicken, egg and
cheese muffin.
So, like a, you know I I assumeit's the same chicken breast or
(02:32):
whatever and and because Iwanted chicken I didn't want to
get I was I was thinking I'lljust get a bacon, egg and cheese
.
I'm like, well, that's notwhat's chick-fil-a about that,
there's nothing.
That's it's big filet, that'spork filet that's pig filet, is
that?
pig filet I could eat thereseven times a day.
Let's go pig filet.
That sounds really notappetizing at all, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
weird how it sounds gross when we name the animal
right yeah, it doesn't soundgross when we yeah say.
You know chicken, like, like,like, if you said, hey, like.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
If you said like hey, do you want to, would you like
a cow sandwich?
You're like no, no, no, I wouldnot like a cow sandwich.
Oh, how about a hamburger?
Yeah, I'll take that anyway.
Yeah, I uh.
So I got, I got that.
A little bit disappointing, butthe chicken minis are really
good.
I always forget the buns are alittle bit disappointing, but
(03:25):
the chicken minis are reallygood.
I always forget the buns are alittle bit sweet.
And I got, uh, some ranchdipping sauce and some of the
Polynesian sauce, which isreally good.
I recently have discovered thePolynesian sauce and it's good.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
It's good what You're making a face like yeah just
everything's good.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
It's good, it's fantastic or fabulous, or, tasty
, I mean, or is it just good?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
like it's good, it's, it's yeah, I I will say it's
not, probably not my favorite.
You know, it's not like well, Idon't I mean adequate, I guess.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So here's, here's a crazy thing.
Just sounds mean, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
so you know how, like you know how, there are certain
things that you crave, whereyou're like you can actually
taste, and you're like, oh man,and you'll be just sitting
around one day and you're likeman.
You know what I haven't had,that it tastes so good you can
actually almost taste it.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
That's not this Right because you were craving the
chicken sandwich, not the tinychicken sandwich.
That's right.
That's right.
I was craving it with eggthat's right yeah, and I ended
up getting the thing.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And the polynesian sauce is good.
It's like a good for a change,because it's not a normal type
of sauce that I would get.
Like it's a sweeter kind ofsauce which I usually don't go
for.
The sweeter condiments, um, Iusually go for like the saltier
vinegary or you know, like youknow different, that kind of
savory kind of flavor and um andso, anyway, it was um, it was
(04:51):
good that, like I said, thechicken minis are always good.
I feel like it's a little bitof a cheat code though, because
you're it's literally like onebite per sandwich.
I mean, it's just like that wasgood.
There's another, there's,that's, that's good, you know.
So when somebody brings likeone of those platters of them,
I'm like how many of these haveI eaten?
Because they're, they go downtoo easy.
(05:12):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
So yeah, anyway, they're kind of like sliders
which, yes, the name itself,sliders like yeah, it's like
that.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
It's like that joke that my wife told me recently.
She's like, hey, um, would youlike that joke that my wife told
me recently.
She's like, hey, um, would youlike to eat, like, uh, like,
five or six, just um gigantictortillas?
You want to eat that and you'relike, no, I wouldn't.
I don't want to eat five or sixgigantic tortillas.
Okay, how about two baskets ofchips and salsa?
Okay, yeah, I'll eat that.
Like so, it's, yeah, it's all,it's all, it's all the form
(05:46):
factor, you know how do you eata giant stack of tortillas right
?
tortilla, yeah you, you fry them, you cut them up, you fry them,
you put some salsa with themand you eat that.
Five to six tortillas, justlike that.
So, uh, so yeah anyway, I gotthose, um, and I will say, like
(06:09):
I said, one of the things thatalways amazes me about
chick-fil-a is they just theirordering system.
Like the fact that they don't.
The fact that other restaurantsor other fast food places that
have drive-thrus don't do whatthey do is mind-boggling to me
is that other places will justhave a, they'll just have a line
, and they're like, oh well, Iguess there's not a different
way to do this.
And you're like, yeah, go tochick-fil-a, they'll tell you
(06:32):
how to do it, like you know.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, but I mean, on the other hand, like aside from
chick-fil-a, I don't know thatI've ever been in a drive-thru
as busy as chick-fil-a yeah, inand out.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So like you haven't been out to in and out, but in
and out it's always that way.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So which is?
Speaker 3 (06:47):
ironic that they're called in and out in and out and
it takes forever to get itexactly.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It's actually not in and out.
Actually, it's like in and thenwait for a long time and then
out in and eventually out.
They sure need to end up, thoughyeah, so no, so in and out does
the same thing, though in andout has somebody standing out in
the line taking the orders, andthey also never get them wrong
(07:14):
too.
That's the other thing, thatwhen you have somebody that's
doing that, right there it's,there's no, there's less of a
communication barrier, and so itjust makes the easy you you
know ordering that much easier.
Um, but it does make the linego faster just because, even
though, even though both of theplaces we just talked about have
long lines, it makes the linego faster because they're
(07:36):
cooking the food like way beforeCause, like, if you have
somebody moving their way backin the line, they've taken the
order of the whole line, so noweveryone's just waiting for, and
also also they take paymentremotely too.
So like literally the onlything you're doing when you pull
up to the window is they handyou a bag and your drink and you
keep driving.
I mean, it's so fast, so ittakes.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
It takes the process from being serialized, you know,
one after another.
Yeah to being multi-threaded,right, right it effectively
creates in one drive-thru linemultiple threads.
It's like a multi-lane highwayversus a one-lane highway.
That's right, you get morethrough faster, in part because
(08:17):
some cars are willing to gofaster right.
And similarly, some ordersdon't take as long to put
together, especially if, likeChick-fil-A, they pre-make some
stuff.
Oh yeah, I'm, sure they do theyhave drawers warming drawers for
their most commonly orderedfood yeah, For peak hours and
they can just take those andhand them off.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Which is something In-N-Out doesn't do.
But what In-N-Out does do tocombat that is they've only got
two things on their menu.
They've got got, you know.
Basically it's a hamburger, youknow like, you've got you know
one patty, or a double double,which is two patties, or you've
got you know any additions, youcan add things to it.
But they've got french fries,that's it.
No onion rings, no, anythingelse.
They don't have chicken on themenu.
They don't have hot dogs on themenu.
(08:55):
They've got shakes and they'vegot drinks, and that's it.
There's some.
That's how mcdonald's startedout.
Yeah, no, but the founder wasaccurate.
But what?
Yeah, and what I'm saying isthat they're the way they combat
that.
You know going, you know beingable to go fast, as they have a
limited menu.
So it's, even though there'sultimate, there's main major
(09:15):
customizations that you can do,it's anyway.
I don't know how this is, uh,our topic, but that's what we're
talking about for a second.
All right, I haven't evengotten to BBC.
So I've got my cup.
I'm finishing up a a little bitof my home homemade ice coffee
that I make with my coconutcream.
I've got my flask that has its.
(09:40):
Days are numbered, this flask.
You are dead to me, flask.
Anyway this is the flask thathas the thing.
I ordered a new one that'scoming.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
It's a milestone moment for you, Brian, to say
goodbye to that flask.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
It is, it has a lot of memories and hopes.
Right, hopes and dreams.
Yeah, and now it has nicks onit and it's dented nicks, Sorry.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
When I said that you made a face, you're like, hey,
hey, cut it out, buddy, what thehell, how rude anyway.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Uh.
So this drink I came across.
Uh, you remember in the lastepisode I talked about the, uh,
the, the ice, that, whatever,it's sparkling ice, um.
So I've done these beforeenergy drinks.
But ghost has now a hydrationdrink and so it's the brand name
(10:31):
ghost.
It has zero caffeine in it, nosugar, it's got electrolytes and
all kinds of good stuff.
It says.
It's got something calledaquaman in it, which has a tm
next to it, which means nothing.
It's a made thing.
And then they've got anotherone that's synact synactive 50
milligrams of synactive water.
That one has that one also has aTM next to it, so they're just
(10:54):
making crap up at this point andputting it in there.
Um, so this is the strawberryKiwi flavor has zero caffeine in
it.
Um bottle.
The whole bottle is 15 caloriesnot super healthy.
It's got less than one percentjuice, so it's not like a actual
thing.
But, um, but it tastes reallygood though.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Uh, it's, it's one of those things that.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So yeah, that's, uh, so that's oh how can they
trademark that?
Isn't that a superhero?
So this says synactive andaquaman.
That aquaman, what is this?
This is their trademark of marmarigot limited.
Wow, we're gonna.
We'd have to go on a deep diveto figure out the.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Oh yeah, the shell companies that have sticks in
this weird energy drink.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
It's just like yeah, we investigated it.
Our investigation ended in theCook Islands.
We can't get past that Turnsout.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
This bottle company is owned by your mom.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, turns out this bottle company is owned by your
mom?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
yeah, so that is what I'm drinking.
What?
What are you eating anddrinking?
Oh, that's a good question.
So I'm has I mentioned beforeI'm on the bone broth diet, but
this time it's not a cheat meal.
It's still delicious, though,though, like I think I could eat
this two or three times a week.
I think Dory might startdabbling in meal prep and
letting this be one of ourgo-tos.
It's scallop stir fry.
(12:36):
Oh yum.
Without the rice because of thediet right, like part of the
diet, like there's no starch, nopotatoes, very limited carrots,
if any.
Uh, no rice, no beans which Idon't know if beans is a starch
or not, but you get the idea.
Um, so it's.
(12:57):
It's basically just scallopsand vegetables and it's
delicious, you know broccoli,bamboo shoots, peppers, onions
and cooked in ghee or butter.
Yeah, so it's just so good.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Sounds really really good.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
It doesn't stay with you, but that's okay.
Yeah, because part of everymeal comes with like one or two
handfuls of nuts.
Oh yeah.
That's the.
It helps regulate your bloodsugar and feeling full long
terms out the day I feel like uh, seafood in general is like
that, like.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I feel like fish fish is very light, like I've
anytime I eat fish.
I'm on a diet and it's like I'mgonna eat, you know, salmon or
even scallops or shrimp oranything like that.
I don't feel like what comeswith.
It might be heavy, but theactual, if you just eat
something in a light sauce orsomething like that, it's almost
like a stir fry.
It doesn't.
(13:54):
You know what I mean.
It typically doesn't stay withyou for long, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Mm-hmm and then drink .
I have a bone broth.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Nice.
Is it flavored or is it just aregular standard?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
bone flavored, I guess I think yes, the original
flavor, which I believe is beef.
Um, and that reminds me.
I want to ask dory, or maybe dothe research myself I'm curious
if bouillon is acceptablebecause as a bone broth, yeah.
To be on the diet, like thediet itself has its own
(14:29):
marketing and its own productsthat you can buy, you know, for
convenience, Like yeah, you canmake your own bone broth.
Sure.
I mean you're literally puttingbones and water and boiling it
and making your house smell andyeah, but they also have packets
that are like basicallydehydrated bone broth and yeah,
(14:49):
the powdered stuff yeah but I'mwondering if that's the case,
and the bone broth is supersalty to begin with, so maybe
just cooking up some bouillonwould do just as well, and
that'd be much more affordablethan their yeah all the diet fad
marketing, you know yeah anyway, I I am enjoying the bone broth
(15:11):
.
It's tasty and I've got a glassbottle of water, of course
awesome staying hydrated.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It's important you're gonna be talking yes, that is
number one pointer for publicspeaking.
You know, ever since you saidthat now, if I don't, if I'm
someplace where I have to talkand I haven't had I don't have
something to drink, it's like apsychological like all of a
sudden my mouth is just like,just like completely dry.
You know, like, and I'm likedamn you, nick, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Maybe you just didn't notice before.
Right, it's when it finallyclicked is when someone said
something.
Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yes, so all right.
What are we talking about?
Yeah, let's end that segment,we're ending it.
End it.
End it right now.
We're beginning something new.
Now we're beginning somethingnew.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Now, actually, we're continuing our last episode with
the theme of endings.
Oh, it's time for our stevencovey reference.
We need to begin with the end.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Begin with the end in mind.
Bingo I just won.
You've mentionedtoastmasmasters, bone Broth and
you.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Toastmasters, I think was last episode.
No, I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
So, yeah, we're talking about sort of continuing
that conversation we had In thelast episode.
We talked a little bit aboutdifferent types of changes and
then, as we usually do, justmeandered through that
conversation, and then today wesort of wanted to go through
just that dealing with endingsin your life, um, ways to you
(16:56):
know, possible things that youcould use to to actually, you
know, I don't want to saytangible things, but things that
you can do in order to copewith endings, whether they be
within your control or notwithin your control, and whether
they be personal orprofessional or, however, in
whatever aspect.
I think there's a lot ofinteresting things about endings
(17:21):
, that and we talked about quitea few of them in the last
episode but a lot of it has todo with perspective, obviously,
um.
So do you want to start or youwant me to jump?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
in.
I want to end.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You want to end Like I do not want to start.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Well, yeah, we want to talk about dealing with
endings.
Yeah, Um, and I think we canstart with, maybe.
What is it?
An ounce of prevention beats apound of cure.
So maybe with the four thoughttechniques and then work our way
into after thought techniques,or just see how we meander into
(18:00):
it.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Work our way into the five thought technique and then
the six thought technique yeah,if we start with that four
thought situation, oh, it tooklike a second slow the tables
have turned.
I didn't even notice oh how theturntable um right around,
(18:24):
right around, um.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Um, there's tim.
I think this might have beentim ferris's first ted talk
perhaps his only ted talk, uh,but he he gave a ted talk on
what's called fear setting, andit's a planning tool.
Instead of goal setting, hecalls it fear setting.
And what it is is.
You just take a piece of paperand flip it to landscape mode,
(18:51):
so to speak.
Three columns the first columnis what you're worried about for
something.
The middle column is one thingyou can do to prevent that worry
from coming to pass.
Okay.
And the third column is onething you can do after the thing
(19:11):
passes anyway and you recoverfrom that having passed.
Yeah.
So like uh, I think lastepisode we talked about losing
your job Say, let's imagine I'mthat's.
How would that work in thiscase?
Yeah, I'm worried about losing,I'm worried about layoffs,
(19:32):
maybe that's like the header ofthe whole work.
You know thing.
Yeah, like a specific is um, I'mworried about income.
So, like, what's one thing youcan do to prevent income being a
problem?
Um, so maybe you go ahead andstart, as an example one, even
by 1%, helping to mitigate thatworry of income is going ahead
(19:54):
and start hunting for apart-time job, right, or a side
gig that you could do reasonablywell without sacrificing your
performance and your, the jobyou supposedly want to keep.
Um, but then recovery would bewould be going ahead and looking
up resources on unemployment asjust one example of one thing.
(20:15):
One thing you could do thatwould be at least 1% recovery
towards the thing that youwanted to overcome, specific to
losing your job, which wasincome.
But again, in that first columnyou would list all the specific
things you'd worry aboutrelated to losing your job.
Yeah.
Maybe the depression, or what doI tell my friends, or whatever
(20:37):
might come to mind.
Yeah.
And I think that's you'reliterally facing your fears
right.
Putting pen to paper and takingsome of that anxiety, that
anxious energy, and channelingit into something that's at
least a little productive.
It does a lot to sort of quietthat monkey mind.
(21:00):
Yeah.
And probably give you then themomentum you need to think
things through even further, todo more than 1% right.
Yeah, maybe you start a secondlist of idea generation on this
specific worry or you knowwhatever else.
So it creates an action planfor yourself to prevent the
thing.
You prevent losing, what youdon't want to lose, or recover
(21:23):
from losing the thing you don'twant to lose.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, and that that sort of goes with.
Um, so it seems like a littlemodified version of what Dale
Carnegie talks about and how tostop worrying and start living.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Really.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, cause he talks about basically looking at what
the worst case scenario is.
So what happens if this thinghappens and I fail at it?
Or if, again, if layoffs come,what happens?
Well, I'm going to be out of ajob and I'm going to do that,
you know.
So number one thing for him isto accept what he said.
Is you need, okay, accept thatthat's true, accept that that
(21:59):
thing is going to happen.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah, let's imagine that, that the worst has
happened, yeah, and so now.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Now do everything in your power to do slightly better
than the worst case scenarioCause to you that's the, that's
worst case scenario, right?
So now what can you do to maybe, maybe, not have worst case
scenario, but you're slightlybetter than worst case scenario
and you?
Know most.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
You know most of the time it ends up yeah, get it
less than the worst, yeah, andthen further improve upon that.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
That's right, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
And many times, through your action, you
actually avoid that scenariocompletely, because you're
actively doing things to preventwhatever you're worried about,
and so, therefore, it eitherdelays that or it avoids it
completely, Like the thing youwere worried about no longer
exists anymore, you know so yeah, um, the other thing I'll say
(22:56):
is it's a.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
It is amazing specific to like, not maybe not
amazing.
I'm being a little sarcastic,uh, but I'll just keep going
with it.
It's a little.
It's amazing how the peoplewith the most initiative seem to
be the best at avoiding layoffbeing laid off and the people
with the least initiative seemto be the best at avoiding
layoff being laid off and thepeople with the least initiative
seem to always get laid off.
Right, it's not a firing andlegitimately it's not a firing.
(23:20):
I imagine it has something todo with corporate or whomever
you know.
Higher ups say hey, we need tomake cuts in this regard, 20%
cuts from the department andresources.
The person who's forced to makethat decision is going to say
who can I stand to lose?
Yeah, yep, right.
And what are you doing to makesure you're not at the bottom or
(23:44):
the top of that list?
Right yeah.
You know, yeah, absolutely.
You avoid the worst casescenario?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Well, and it's, and funny thing is that's a factor
of two different things, youknow.
One of them is is this personproductive, like is this person
that gets their job done Right?
But then the other factor is isthis person difficult?
Like are they somebody who,like I, just I don't like.
They're great at their job butI don't like working with them.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Sure, or they require too much of my attention.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Right, exactly In a different way to phrase that.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yes, It'll give you positive attention?
Yeah, of course, but it's likeyou need people who have that
initiative that should workindependently.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And vice versa.
Yeah, If you need somebody whoneeds to be praised all the time
, like they need to be coddledand like, oh, you're doing such
a great job Again.
Oh, you're doing such a greatjob Again, like you're saying,
that's requiring a lot of effortand energy, that you're like
can you just do your job please?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Everybody needs and deserves praise.
Sure, of course, especiallywhen they're doing their job?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
well, absolutely.
But one of the things that wetalked about in the last episode
was basically the controlfactor.
So, like you talked in thataspect, you um, basically the
control factor.
So, like you talked in thataspect, you're talking about
layoffs, like you're worriedabout layoffs and that's not in
your control, like yourcompany's going through a thing
not in your control.
I found an article of a guy whowas talking about things that
(25:03):
were in your control and heposes the question is how do you
determine when to quit and whento stick?
So, when to stick with whatyou're doing or when to quit,
what are your?
Whatever that might be arelationship or a job or
anything else.
And he has a like.
Well, I'll say a three question, but it's three questions, and
then, once you answer thosethree questions, followed by a
(25:24):
fourth.
So I guess it's a four questionso so the first question is is
this thing causing me to grow oram I learning something from it
?
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Okay, To grow or learn, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
And then the second question is does this thing
bring me joy?
So is it making me, quoteunquote, happy, even though you
know, we know, happy has a lotof connotations, but does it?
Joy is different than.
Well, and he says the secondfollow-up to that.
He says does it resonate deeplywith me?
So like, do you have some levelof connection with this thing
(25:57):
in your life, either arelationship or a job or
whatever else?
The third question is is therestill a need for this in my life
?
So, do I right?
Do people still want this?
Is there a demand for it?
Does it you know?
So, things like that.
And then the last thing afterhe says, after you ask those
questions and sit with theanswers for a few minutes, he
(26:20):
said is this what I want?
So, basically, once you gothrough those things, then, you
say, yeah, but do I actuallywant?
like, yes, yes, and yes, yes, itcauses me to grow, yes, it
brings me joy, yes, there'sstill a need for this, but do I
still want this thing?
Right?
Do I still want thisrelationship or whatever else?
So I thought that wasinteresting, just because it
(26:41):
gives you.
It gives you like somethingtangible that you can frame.
It's sort of like you'returning the turning the page
sideways or looking at worstcase scenario.
All of these are just framingtechniques.
Going back to that perspective.
It's like how do I getperspective on this thing?
Like how do I, you know, ifit's out of my control, how do I
cope with the fact thatsomething's going to happen like
(27:03):
that there's going to be achange forced upon me, versus I
feel like I might need to make achange.
Do I know that I need to make achange?
I don't know.
I don't know I need to.
How do I figure that out?
And so both of those sides ofthe equation are framing that
perspective, I think, anddealing with that.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
It seems like a solid framework.
I think the only way I'd everbe able to make any kind of
change or adjustments to itwould be through practice Right,
and change or adjustments to itwould be through practice right
, and I think, yeah, that wouldbe up to the individual.
You know, however, I tweakthose questions to serve me
wouldn't necessarily serve youright or anybody else.
So you basically take thisgeneric and make it personal
(27:45):
yeah customize it to your own.
You know personality or needs,narrative, whatever yeah, yeah
but that's, that's good.
I like it.
What's?
What's the guy's name?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
let's give him a little more credit his name is
wow, I'm gonna be embarrassed um.
It is a web.
Oh, it's jeff goins or goinsg-o-I-N-S, and it is at the
website Goinswritercom, soG-O-I-N-S-W-R-I-T-E-Rcom.
Nice.
And this looks like.
(28:21):
Let's see, I'm just trying tosee if I can find a date on this
.
A lot of times these like blogsand like these kinds of things.
They don't put a date, theydon't like date.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Stamp it, so sure like these kinds of things.
They don't put a date, theydon't like date stamp it, so
sure, um, I don't see a date.
That's considered like a bestpractice now, so that way, your
evergreen content can feelevergreen rather than putting it
if you wrote it five years ago.
Even though it still applies,people will feel like it's old.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yes, yeah, when I do that, I'll be like oh, this is
from like three years ago, butit's like you know, like you
said, it's a topic that hasn'tchanged.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
So yeah, so when there's a couple of other um
frameworks in dealing withchange or endings, welcome or
otherwise?
Uh, yeah, that we talked, we.
We cited or referenced thechange curve and the grief curve
(29:10):
.
Yes, Um so like the, the way youwould apply that is just at
least a peak at self-awarenessand read like what what
bargaining means, read whatacceptance means and sort of do
a temperature check and askyourself like where am I at on
this process?
And the only thing I would, Iwould point out, is the curve is
(29:35):
kind of like a guideline yeah Ithink it's still very true that
you know we all grieve in ourown way.
Meaning the, even though it'sshown as a curve, I think
everyone, the plot that everyonetakes to each of those points
can vary.
And sometimes they go back andforth, like people can go to
acceptance, back to bargaining,back to acceptance.
(29:57):
You know, there's even, I think, a meme out there that shows,
you know, the change curve onthe left, um, and then, and
that's just like what, what,what grief looks like to
academics.
And then, on the right, it'swhat grief looks like to you.
Yeah.
And it's just scribbles.
Yeah.
It's the same dots of the curvebut then it's just scribbles
(30:19):
connecting the dots.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
But I think that's true.
Honestly, I think that that, atleast my personal belief is
that you know, that's where thatsquiggle is, where counseling
or some other um, and that mightnot be counseling but it might
be you gotta have some kind ofexternal factor that helps.
And for some people that's likeyour minister or your, you know
your religious structure.
(30:43):
For some people it's self-helpbooks, for some people it's I
don't know, it could be anythingright, it could be just
whatever.
Yeah, friends or a socialnetwork or whatever.
It is Not social network in thesense of social networking, but
yeah.
But, like you know, you're,you're, you're, you're people
you're surrounded you with, andI think you know it's funny that
(31:03):
you mentioned like going backand forth between two things,
because I think that's, I thinkthat's a source of a lot of
things in our lives Like wevacillate between certain things
, Like we, we, instead ofdealing with something and
accepting it, like getting tothe final stage of acceptance,
we just constantly are like Idon't, it's, like you don't want
to accept it, and so you justkeep going back and rehashing
(31:25):
and rehashing and rehashing andyou never, you never, deal with
it.
You know.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Or or you're, you're at a point where like, oh, this,
this is depressing, I neededsomething needs to change.
Yeah, you know.
So you move like you move alongthe curve, or you move to a
different data point but ithappens to be backwards.
Right, you know like you moved,you went the wrong direction.
So, not the wrong direction,but a less effective direction.
Yes, right, and it may be abetter question to look at these
(31:53):
curves and ask yourself whichone have.
I haven't experienced yet withthis problem.
Yeah, yeah.
With this end, and I do thinkthat every unwelcome change has
grief to it.
Yes.
Losing a loved one, eitherthrough death or through divorce
(32:13):
or you know um heck, even whensometimes I go through a little
bit of depression and grief whenDory goes on vacation, like
yeah.
I've got coping mechanisms, Iwill gravitate to old bad habits
, cause I I don't know how todeal with missing her.
You know, I try to avoid thatfeeling and I'll distract myself
(32:34):
from it, right?
But um, yeah, I think.
And then another tool that I'veheard is is used in in
psychology and just other kindsof self help, is the hero's
journey.
Yes.
Following the storytelling arcsthat exist out there.
Yeah.
(32:54):
Even like the three actstructure, like sort of imagine
yourself as the protagonist insome story and do a literary
analysis of what's happened andwhere you're at and like what
would be next for a protagonist.
Yes.
You know if they have?
Have you met the mentor yet?
Are you in the valley ofdespair?
Yeah.
Have you faced the evil one,you know?
(33:16):
Have you gotten the?
Yeah, whatever it is, theallies and the enemy.
Have you met your allies andenemies yet?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
What might they look like in your current situation?
Or what would a friend looklike in this situation?
Yes.
And then it can help, like yousaid, externalize yeah, what
you're going through and sort ofhelp you activate your
conscious thinking and tamp downa little bit of the emotion
which can cloud your.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I always love that because I this is a, you know I,
what I've noticed is, at leastfor me, I enjoy and have enjoyed
, like doing drama and thingslike that in the past, past
points in my life.
You know, and it's somethingthat you're using, this thing
and you like it almost unlocksdifferent I don't say different
(34:15):
parts of your brain, but that'sI mean it probably does, but it
it unlocks different levels for,to use a video game reference,
you know, um, that when you dosomething repetitively, like
public speak, things come out ofit that you don't even realize,
like you didn't, you weren'teven in it for that and it all
of a sudden you're like, oh, youknow what this?
I have this fringe benefit ofthis other thing and one of the
(34:36):
things that I always like aboutI always liked about, um, you
know, being in plays and doingdrama things is I got to do an
act like something that I wasnot was very, very uncomfortable
for me, but it made itcomfortable because I knew that
I was acting, but I knew, but itmade me ask myself the question
(34:57):
of like, how would a personthat acts like this, so, getting
back to the Enneagram, stuffbingo cards out again?
Um, getting back to Enneagram.
You know I might ask myself howwould an eight act in this
certain circumstance?
So I get to act like an eightin in my, you know, in that.
But even though if I did thatthing in real life I would be
(35:17):
super uncomfortable and Iwouldn't do it, I'd be too
uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Right, but but it's okay because everyone knows,
everyone around you knows you'repretending Right.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Exactly.
But you get, but you get likealmost this benefit of like wow,
that felt great.
Like that felt actually great toyell at someone, like just to
just unleash on someone, eventhough you knew you weren't
doing it for real.
Your body doesn't know thedifference.
It's that it's the same thingas meditation or prayer or
whatever else is like.
Your body doesn't know thedifference.
Like if you're visualizingsomething that's why people use
(35:46):
visualization something, that'swhy people use visualization,
because because your body can'ttell the difference If you're
visualizing, visualizingsomething in your mind, then
you're, you're envisioning Imean, you're envisioning it,
you're you're basically tryingto make as realistic of a
picture of that thing and you'realso putting that on it.
How.
But how would I act if, in myideal world, I was the most
confident, I was the mosteducated, I was the most
(36:08):
whatever I needed to be for thatcircumstance and so you know
it's interesting with the changestuff, because that's I think
that also would be is a valuablequestion is like and I've heard
that said is like how, andactually almost any circumstance
you can say how would a personthat has what I want to have or
(36:30):
is like I want to be, how wouldthat person act in this
circumstance?
So, like you know, even if whatwould jesus do?
Yeah, exactly, and that's whatwould I do.
Right, that's the whole basisof it.
But you can say, I can say how,and, and that may be based upon
like bad information that Ihave is like that.
I think, oh, that person wouldjust be fully confident and they
wouldn't care at all.
(36:50):
And it's like, maybe on theinside they totally care.
But from my perspective I'mgoing, yeah, but this is what I
want to feel, like, you know,and and so.
So I think that has to be a bigquestion that can help quite a
bit, like, like, even, just like, and we had Austin on, you know
, for the fitness, you knowtalking about yeah.
(37:13):
And you know, talking aboutdieting and like your diet is
whenever you're about to eatsomething say hey, is a person
like, a person that is at thehealth level that I want to be
at, or the weight that I want tobe at, or whatever else, would
they eat this thing?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
And if the answer is probably not, then you probably
shouldn't eat that thing.
It almost becomes a real easyif you can put yourself in the
mindset of somebody that's likeyou want to be.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Would a fit person eat this?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yes, and so yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
So, yeah, I think that recognizing like these
different personalities areasking you know what would this
person?
I would like time to think onthings.
Sometimes an emergencysituation all you can do is
react but like right.
(38:18):
If you're trying to make adecision of you know, buy, build
, rent or not, or just no change, or if you're right, whatever,
um ask well, okay, what wouldjesus do?
Or what would this personadmire do?
yeah what would a fit person do?
What would a fat person do,like, um?
Because each, each of thosepeople do exist inside you,
(38:44):
right?
You know, um, I've beenre-listening to a book called
the e-myth revis, and it talksabout how everyone has three
different people inside themwhen it comes to like starting a
business.
There's the, the technician,the entrepreneur and the manager
.
Okay.
And all three are at odds.
But he also talks abouteverybody hasn't to tell prove
(39:05):
his point.
Um, there's, I promise I'malmost done.
Um, you're fine.
There's the skinny guy and thefat guy.
Uh-huh, like everyone in themhas a skinny guy and a fat guy
yep and there's that period likemaybe it's six months.
You're just missed, mr or mrs.
Discipline getting up in themorning's easy, yeah, and
fitness gear.
(39:25):
You're on a tear, you're goingto bed early, you're waking up
early, you know, you know whatyou want and there's no question
about whether you should pursueit.
Um, and because the skinny guyhas finally woken up, he's
finally gotten sick of the fatguy yeah but then what happens
is the, the fat guy in the gets,breaks out of his, his prison
(39:51):
you know cause he's hungry andangry and needs sugar or
whatever it is.
The sugar demon is the bonebroth diet calls it.
Right.
And it gets activated.
It gets in the driver's seatbut, like those people exist
within us.
Yeah.
And if at every turn you listento both and then answer the
question, like you were sayingokay well, I have listened to
(40:13):
looking at my body and andseeing myself on camera and this
web call or whatever it is.
Yeah, I listened to the fat guya little too often.
I'm going to listen to theskinny guy this time.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Well, and I, I uh, on that note, you know, there's a,
there's a battle that, uh, thatgoes on with me, as that being
a nine, being a people pleaseris when you're, you know, like,
so, a lot of times I'm like inthe mindset of the more fit
person or the person that's like, hey, I'm, here's what I'm
gonna do, I'm gonna plan thisout, I'm gonna do all this stuff
(40:44):
, and then I, you knowsomebody's like, hey, you want
to go out to dinner.
I'm like, yeah, sure, yeah,let's go out to dinner.
You know, and that's a littlebit of an excuse on my part,
cause there's a lot of peoplethat go out to dinner a lot and
they aren't, you know, they,they make good choices, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
So, you know but but, but it is as a nine.
It's easier or harder, or theway it makes that situation is
hard for you I'm sure there'sdifferent examples for all the
personalities and and hard forme too, Cause I remember feeling
this when we had our gettogether recently to say goodbye
to a member who's moving, youknow, and whatnot.
(41:24):
Like I, dory and I did animpromptu cheat meal, like it
wasn't part of our plan, butlike I didn't want, in front of
everyone, to make them feeluncomfortable yes, as in, partly
because of my nine, but likeI'm just gonna take, do what
everyone else does be a part ofthe group, not worry about it.
You know um, but that that wasthe the pattern of thinking that
(41:47):
I gravitate towards as yes,yeah, and I want everyone else
to feel comfortable, so I'm notgoing to get.
Actually, I think I did getbroccoli as a side.
I still got the hamburger whichyou know, but I did get
broccoli instead of fries.
Um, but it was definitely acheat meal for sure.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Well, there's another peer pressure.
There is another thing that Ipulled up.
Uh, somebody named DianaToscano, that is.
Let's see what her website isDiana Toscanocom.
Hey, look at that.
Um, and so she wrote a thingthat was coping with endings,
how to honor an ending before anew beginning, and there's
(42:29):
tangible steps in here.
Um, she talks about you know,she actually talks about some of
the things we talked about inthe last episode, which one of
the examples she uses are.
It was the Sunday blues, youknow, just like um, I can't
remember if we talked about thatlast episode or this episode,
but anyway, basically, um, shegave.
(42:50):
Let's see how many steps shegave.
Five steps, and there's.
Each one of them has a quite abig description, but, um, but
I'll read the five steps thatshe has.
So, five ways to learn how tocope with an ending by honoring
it with all the reverence andcompassion it deserves.
So one is give yourself time.
Two is acknowledge yourfeelings.
(43:10):
Three, practice acceptance,which we have been talking about
.
Four, connect with positivepeople.
And then five, be kind toyourself.
So obviously there's abreakdown of each one of those
things that she gives, but Ijust think I always love it when
people, um, whether they'reblogging or whether it's a
(43:33):
self-help book or anything elsethat they give you just like
very structured steps of like,here's you know, here's what you
can do, um, it makes it alittle bit easier, so easier, so
on, um, somewhat of anextemporaneous you know tactic
(43:54):
is um some specifics on like howto stay true to yourself, like
if, if you're into self-help atall, like brian and I, are mr or
mrs audience member rightyou've probably done like the
values exercise, where you'vecome up with words that mean a
lot to you, maybe more than itdoes to other people.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Just if you've done that and if you haven't, I
recommend it.
Just, there's plenty of formsonline.
It'll give you a list of wordslike integrity, dignity, honesty
, curiosity, great gratitude youknow stuff like that, yeah, and
(44:33):
you just pick your top fivelike what means the most to you.
So if you've done that exercise, maybe pull out that list of
hopefully no more than fivewords and ask yourself okay,
dealing with a situation my, mygrandparent passing or losing my
job, or losing this board game,what like, whatever it is yeah,
(44:55):
and asking yourself okay, howcan I maintain my value of
integrity in this situation, howcan I maintain my value of
connection in this situation?
Or you know, whatever thosefive words are, and, um, at the
very least you can, you know,quote be true to yourself.
Yeah, Um, not lose yourself inthis.
(45:20):
Um, grief.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, I think, um, you know the, the interesting
thing about the, what you justsaid, as well as what we were,
what this person says on theirwebsite is a lot of it goes back
to you like this is you know,in a few of these they talk
about it's you like giveyourself time, acknowledge your
feelings, practice acceptance,connect with positive, be kind
(45:44):
to yourself.
You know so, you know it'sbasically it's almost giving you
kind to yourself.
You know so, you know it'sbasically it's almost giving you
permission to to say like, hey,it's okay that you don't feel
that great about what'shappening, but you know, just
know that there's ways to dealwith it and that that the um,
you know, nothing is foreverkind of thing.
(46:06):
You know.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Well, and you saying that gave me another idea that
you know.
When you said it's, it's allyou lots of time, not lots of
times, I shouldn't say lots oftimes.
Some have said that you know,depression is sort of a function
of being too focused on theself and not as active.
(46:35):
That does sound a lot likeblaming the victim.
At the same time, like peoplewho are shut in and isolated
tend to feel depression moreRight shut in and isolated tend
to feel depression more right.
And people who are connected andhave a social group, you know
friends and family to spend timewith.
Um.
So there's, there's a bit of abit of both.
(46:58):
It's no, it's not black andwhite for sure, yeah, but but
just kind of recognizing thatthat there and say there are
layoffs and maybe you weresomebody who laid off, but
you're not the only one who waslaid off, like how can you
connect with other people orhelp other people through that?
Um dory has an excellent speechabout how realizing how, when
(47:21):
others are going through a toughtime, she gives really good
advice, but when it comes to herown life, not so much.
Yes.
But it was like the whole speechis that epiphany of I can
listen to my own advice.
Yeah Right, like I.
Just like I help other peoplewhen they have problems.
The same kind of help I givethem I give to others.
And if you are going through atough time, find other people
(47:44):
who are going through a similartough time, help them with the
help they need.
But pay attention to the helpyou're giving.
Take note like, oh, I can getthat help myself, that's the
help I need.
It's another way to externalizewhat you.
It's sort of sheds that lighton your own blind spot, part of
whenever I felt depressed.
(48:04):
A lot of times I don't knowwhat I need, I don't know.
I don't even know why I feeldown, yeah um.
But then, as I'm helping otherpeople think and fill through
their problems, I have thoselittle light bulb moments for
myself like, oh yeah, that'swhat I need to do, um yeah, it's
another way to potentially getyourself out of your own head,
(48:25):
um is finding similar people,helping them and then taking
your own advice.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
It's interesting that , on that note, like I, you know
, it's like it's a in a personwho has had low self-esteem.
It's like I've I've been toldbefore.
Would you so would you ever sayto what what you say to
yourself?
Would you ever say that toanother person to their face?
Like, would you, would you everspeak as meanly or as
(48:54):
negatively to anyone?
Uh, the way that you speak toyourself in your head.
And if you wouldn't, then whyare you doing it yourself?
Why are you beating yourselfdown and sort of the same
thing's like you know, likeyou're not giving yourself
permission to do anything.
Everybody else has full reign,full reign and full permission.
(49:14):
And, um, you give them thebenefit of the doubt, but you
don't give yourself the benefitof the doubt, you know, yeah, so
it's, it's a strategic thing.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
But if a friend of mine does say stuff like that,
like like I'm so stupid, yeah,I'm so lazy, and like if, if
they get, if it's clear thatthey're on that kind of spiral,
yeah well, just to break themout, I'll be, I'll literally say
like how dare you yeah don'tyou ever, ever talk to my friend
like that, ever again yeah ortalk about my friend that way,
(49:44):
like yeah, you know, yeah, um,it's like okay, we're saying
that yeah with you or anyoneelse.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Like don't ever talk about my friend that way yeah
because it's not true, you knowwell, and the steven covey uh,
bingo cards out again.
The steven.
You know steven covey talksabout argue for your weaknesses
and they're yours, you know?
So, like if you're.
If you're like, yeah, man, I'mjust like if you're.
If you're like, yeah, man, I'mjust so dumb.
And you're like, no, you're notdumb, you're not done.
(50:11):
You're like, yeah, I'm totally,I'm totally idiot, I can't, I
just can't get this right.
I'm stupid, I'm stupid, I'mstupid.
Okay, then you are like you'regoing to create that.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
If you, if you keep saying you're gonna get it, so
it certainly doesn't help youlike, stop making that same
mistake, right?
Speaker 1 (50:29):
yep, that's the answer to the problem yeah,
because I'm stupid.
It's not.
I learned from my mistakes,right?
So I'm gonna do somethingdifferent next time.
Yeah, because I'm stupid, soI'm doomed to keep doing the
same right stuff I see, I toldyou, I told you, this is what
stupid people do.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Is they do this?
You know, it's like that thatsounds.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
That sounds like a nate bargatze bit.
It's like you couldn't avoidthis, man.
I try to tell you, yeah, butyou, you went up and talked to
me this.
This isn't much your fault, asit is my fault yeah, um, let's
see what else, what else.
There are some specifics, solike if say, end of life.
(51:11):
Yeah.
You know, I mean you're notgoing to toot your own horn, but
you do wills and trusts.
That's a great way to plan andface that particular kind of
unwelcome end.
Mm-hmm.
I would also say that somethingI've recently learned about and
therefore know very little about.
(51:31):
But there's this thing called alike an end of life doula or a
death doula yes and it's kind oflike an anti-midwife or someone
who yes or like if if hospiceis like giving birth is the
opposite of giving birth in ahospital, Then the sense that I
(51:54):
get is doula is the opposite ofgetting a midwife.
Right, I'm not saying that verywell at all, but I think you
get the yeah.
The parallelism.
Like I said, I know very littleabout it, but when I first
heard about it I was like that'sreally interesting.
Um I mean, it makes thatcottage industry, you know yeah,
someone just helping someone,both the person who's passing
(52:15):
and the people who are, I guess,going to be passed yes uh, deal
with that and go through that,that grief with, yeah, holding
someone's hand who's familiarwith the process, you know, a
professional, a professionalfriend if it were.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Yeah, yeah, and I think I mean I think that, from
what I've seen in in dealingwith people on on different, you
know, from differentperspectives of either they've
lost a loved one or they'redealing with their own mortality
, um, I, I feel like that someof the stuff that I do for some
(52:53):
of my clients, or for most of myclients, is that, uh, it's,
it's proactive, so it'ssomething that you know,
something that hasn't happenedyet.
You know, um, but they're tryingto make sure that the things
that they want to get done getdone and um, and so you know
that I feel like it does createlike a peace of mind kind of
(53:16):
thing, and that's that's one ofthe things that needs to come
out of an ending of you know.
Is that, you're, it's actually,it's sort of what you talked
about earlier in this episode,which is the mind was.
It was like prepping, it's likeprepping for an end, um, uh,
fear setting yeah, fear settingyeah, which is basically you're,
you know you're, you'rechanging your mindset, you're
(53:38):
trying to like wrap your headaround this thing's going to
happen.
What do I need to do to preparefor it?
Speaker 1 (53:44):
And so, and there are different um, I mean when it
comes to end of life or like endof a youth.
Two different things, but partof the journey, part of the
whole life cycle we all share,you know right.
Um, there's not much you can doto prevent, like coming back to
(54:06):
a fear setting.
There's things you can do toprevent the fear and there's
things you can do to recoverfrom the fear, right, and I got
to wonder, like think, if menand women respond differently to
the loss of vigor, to the lossof vigor.
(54:27):
Men go through their midlifecrisis and buy the sports cars
or get the mistress and get allkinds of relational trouble.
Women stereotypically get themakeup and the Botox or cosmetic
surgery.
Imagine if that money andattention was instead invested
(54:52):
in like health care, yeah, orsaving right before health care
costs and retirement, or, um,just be being ready for the loss
of vigor.
Cause you can do, you can spendfortunes preventing the
appearance of the loss of youthor, or actual, you know, loss of
(55:16):
youth, right?
Or you could know that it'scoming and just make sure that
you're ready when it happens.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
Yeah, um well, and our friend Ed Zinkowitz does
that for to some level, is youknow what?
How are you going to?
You've just made thistransition in your life, granted
, I think it all, I think it isall tied to death.
I think people, people think,hey, when I stop working and I
stopped doing somethingproductive, and I quote unquote,
retire.
(55:43):
I think part of your brain is ohwell, I'm sort of retiring from
life a little bit, retire, Ithink part of your brain is oh
well, I'm sort of retiring fromlife a little bit, and you know,
and, and that means that I'mgetting closer to death and uh,
and so I feel like what Ed doesis he talks about, he talks with
people about how to cope withthat aspect of your life which
is you're going through thischange.
(56:03):
It's a change just like anyother change, and so how are you
going to fill this these yearsand years and years of your life
that you didn't?
Really nobody ever teaches youto do that.
Everyone teaches you.
You work, you become productive,you save your money, you get,
you know you to the point whereyou can stop working, but nobody
ever says okay, what are yougoing to do now?
Like, even let's take the moneyaspect out of it and say there
(56:27):
isn't any issue with money.
Let's just say you don't haveto worry about money.
What are you going to do withall that time?
Like it could be.
I mean, people are livinglonger and longer and longer.
Speaker 1 (56:37):
So I'm going to live the dream Netflix and video game
.
Speaker 2 (56:40):
Exactly, there's going to be like 85 and 90 year
olds that are uh, you know, justcall of duty and you know any
kind of.
Speaker 1 (56:51):
I mean, the 14 year olds need something to shoot out
, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
That's what I'm saying.
I actually saw a video.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
Oh my gosh, it's some weird.
Speaker 2 (57:02):
On that note, I saw recently a video this is not
even having any deal with oranything to do with our, with
our subject, but it was a.
It was a gentleman who was a, Iwant to say he was a vietnam
veteran and he was playing callof duty for the first time and
he was like sniping people withsniper rifle and the joy in the
guy's face like it was just thecraziest thing, because he would
(57:22):
like, he would be like way faroff in the distance and he'd
like lead them with the shot andhe'd shoot, and then you just
see the like the puff you knowlike from that character in the
video game dying and he justlike hits him.
He's like oh, this is great,this is so awesome.
Speaker 1 (57:36):
Like it's just like well, yeah, the thing that got
me laughing was that,stereotypically, the ones who
are really good at video gamesare youth and Asians, yeah, and
so like there's this weird punthat can be made for youth in
Asia, killing all the old men onvideo games and player versus
(57:57):
player combat, right, right, youknow Rather than you know real
life.
Right, right.
Wars, because that's.
Speaker 2 (58:12):
Oh man, ok, yeah, dark humor.
I apologize.
Real life, right, right, wars,because that's oh man, okay,
yeah, yeah, dark humor.
I apologize, exactly, um, Ithink that's about it for our
subject is it time to end theconversation already?
Speaker 1 (58:23):
I think so I've done what I could to prevent.
Now I have to work withrecovery um, what I was good.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
There was one other thing that I was gonna bring up.
I think it was just a quote orsomething like that, but I know
now I can't remember what it wasum, I think, um.
Speaker 1 (58:44):
You know, it's often said that great minds think
alike, and you know, good thingscome to an end.
But the truth is, all mindsthink alike.
Right, like great minds thinkalike, but so do slow minds
think alike as well.
Yeah.
(59:04):
And yes, good things come to anend, but bad things do as well,
and that sort of takes back tothe.
This too shall pass yeahthere's.
There's a bit of stoicism, theidea that, yeah, you're going
through some crap right now andtake comfort that this will pass
.
But you know, don't get tooexcited when you're going
through a great moment, becausethat too shall pass right right,
(59:27):
all good things come to an end,so do all bad things yeah,
there's there's an ebb and aflow.
Nothing lasts forever exactly.
Speaker 2 (59:40):
All right, I think we've, I think we've ended
appropriately and bye.
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