November 2, 2023 • 59 mins
Ever wondered how a crab boil dinner could bring to light the intricate layers of trust in our lives? We did too, and that's why in this week's episode, we've peeled back the layers of trust, just like those crustaceans, to bring you an in-depth exploration of a concept we often take for granted. We've all had those instances where we've placed our faith in someone or something only to be let down – it's the price we pay for being human, but it's also a catalyst for growth and self-discovery.
As we journey through the complexities of trust, we consider its many forms – from the casual trust we place on a barista to get our order right, to the more profound trust we place in our relationships and in ourselves. We take a philosophical approach, connecting trust, truth, and faith and sharing our thoughts on how our tendencies to either trust too much or not enough can be a reflection of our strengths.
In this episode, we also share a rather humorous memory of a crab boil experience during a recent vacation. The process of eating crab, the unique restaurant atmosphere, and the unforgettable beverages from a candy store all weave into our discussion on trust in unexpected ways. We cannot promise that you will master the art of eating crab by the end of this episode, but we guarantee a thought-provoking conversation about trust that might just change the way you approach relationships and life itself. Tune in!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Help Yourself.
Food and Philosophy with Brianand Nick.
I'm Nick and I'm Brian.
Thank you, brian.
The best way to find out if youcan trust somebody is to trust
them.
Thanks, ernest Hemingway.
What's?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
eating.
Brian, that's a little bit.
That's hazardous.
I feel like that's a hazardousway to go about.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Life is risky, brother, Every time you open
your eyes as you're rolling thedice.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, well, I mean, and that's I would be good with
snake eyes.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Well, what am I eating?
So I'm fresh off vacation so Iactually had a few food
experiences that I wanted totalk about, the first one being
a I hadn't had crab for a longtime.
We went to a place that hasseafood, so down on the Gulf of
Mexico, and there was a lot ofplaces that serve seafood and I
(01:04):
rarely will get lobster or crab,and the reason why is just
because it's so pricey.
But I was on vacation and I'mlike you know what, I'm gonna
splurge a little.
I'm gonna get myself some snowcrab legs it was like a crab
boil, you know and came withlike eight crab legs and corn
and potatoes and you know side.
I think it had like a side ofsomething else as well, and so I
(01:28):
can say that I was a little bitdisappointed.
So I forgot.
It's the thing is, I forgot howmuch work it was to eat crab,
like I'm so used to, likegetting like a crab roll or a
crab cake or something like that.
That's just like no, you pullthe crab out of the crab for me
and I'll eat the crab.
And this they just bring likeone of those plastic nets you
(01:50):
know.
They have like those plasticnets that hold it all together
so that while you're boilingyour stuff you know it doesn't
all like fly all over the placeand they, you know so they give
it to you on the plate withbutter and with, like other, you
know, the accoutre-mol, if youwill.
Wow, wow.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
That was crazy.
Yeah, multi-lingual vocabularyhere, geez.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Everyone's why I like to drop a bomb like that on
this podcast, you know.
Man, I am baffled Anyway, so Ihad all the stuff with it.
See how I downgraded that tojust stuff.
And it's just stuff, stuff thatcomes with it, related stuff.
(02:42):
So they gave me all the tools,they gave me like the cracker
thing and they gave me this likelittle tiny mini fork with two
prongs on it.
That was plastic, so you couldlike poke the stuff out and pull
the stuff out and all thisstuff and it was for like my
whole family was done eatingcompletely.
And they're like are you evergoing to finish?
I'm like dude, I'm barelystarting.
This.
This is like takes me forever.
(03:04):
And then you crack open thestuff and it's like sometimes
very disappointing for all thework.
You like crack it open, you getthe leg open and you're like,
wow, there's like one bite ofmeat in here, like mm, that was
good and okay.
Now I got to crack somethingelse, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And that had to be terrible for you as a peacemaker
.
Like everyone's just watchingyou eat Like are you done yet?
Well, I would say the rest ofthe I can just take it home.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I can just throw it away.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
It's okay, I don't need to eat.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I mean I will say that the restaurant we went to
was crazy anyway, because it waslike picture, an open warehouse
style restaurant with, like, ifyou've seen those gigantic fans
, like if you've ever been toCostco or one, or like sometimes
they haven't been Home Depot orLowe's, you know the big, huge.
Actually there's a brand namelike called Big Ass Fans.
That is and that wasn't a cuss,because it's the actual brand
(03:53):
name.
That's like these gigantic fansthat they put into these places
.
Right, I've seen them in gymsand things.
Hey, it's Dory, look at that.
Hey, good to see you.
Dory, she can't hear me becauseshe's here in your.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah, say hi Hello.
Hello, dory, very hot, thenwe'll be home.
We are recording.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Dory's delivering the food.
Yeah, so this picture like anopen warehouse style thing with
like industrial style tables,metal chairs, but these tables
were like built for giganticparties, so like there were
tables next to us that couldhold 12 people, you know easily.
And so there were these hugefamily parties because this is
(04:31):
an area where people are onvacation with their extended
family, there's going to belarger parties and it was a very
like.
You know, at one end it waslike the whole end of it was a
gigantic bar and it wasn't busywhen we were there, but it was
just.
But then here's the other crazything about it.
The reason why I said it wascrazy is not just that that
sounds like a pretty standard,like hey, it's a crab boil kind
of restaurant, but every hoursomeone came out on a microphone
(04:55):
and the whole staff came outand like did a dance and like
they said anybody who hasbirthdays in the next two months
, you need to point that personout for us.
And then they told those peopleto stand on their table, on top
of their table.
So like these people arestanding on top of the tables
and they're like, hey, we got towish them a happy birthday.
It was the craziest restaurantI've ever been to.
(05:16):
I went to the bathroom and Icame out and there was somebody
with a microphone and peoplewere standing on the tables.
I was like what is happeningright now?
I have no idea what's going onhere.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
That doesn't sound very sanitary.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I was.
That's exactly the question Iasked.
I was like, how did they getthis around the sanitation laws?
This is crazy.
Like people with their, did you?
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Do you look at the health food score on the way in?
Was it like a 72?
No, to be honest, they did not.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I did not.
I just ate the food and had agood time, and yeah, and then,
yeah, so anyway.
So I had this, I had the crabboil.
It took me forever.
I didn't get very much meat out, even though it was like a one
pound.
It says it was a one pound crabboil.
I feel like maybe there wasfour or five ounces of meat in
that.
It was so.
(06:03):
That's including the shells andthe butter, the shell and
everything else exactly, and soI was saying I was a little bit.
I would have much rather havehad like peel and eat shrimp,
because at least those I knowthey're easier to peel.
You know how much meat's gonnabe coming out of them, because
there's a thin, thin skin onthem and they usually are pretty
big and hefty and I should havegotten that.
But anyway, overall I mean, theflavor was good, everything was
(06:26):
good with it.
It was.
There was nothing wrong with it.
It's just I forgot how hard itwas to deal with that and also,
if there's nobody else at yourtable eating that, then you're
gonna be the last one eating,for sure.
There's no way.
So anyway, that was myexperience with the crab.
I probably won't be gettingcrab anytime soon, unless it's a
(06:47):
crab cake or a crab roll andsomebody else has done the heavy
lifting for me.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
So I think together we need to invent the crab shake
.
The crab shake, you know, it'sso convenient.
You don't even have to doanything, you just suck through
a straw.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
That does not sound appetizing at all.
So okay, so that Brian'sbeverage corner.
What am I drinking, too?
I've got my shaker bottle here.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I'm not shaker bottle .
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I've got my Fahrenheit bottle here with some
Agua water in it I've got.
I also have a protein bottle, ashaker with a protein coffee
drink in it that I've beendrinking, the thing that has
weaned me off of my Starbucksfor a little while.
I only have Starbucks as atreat now and then this and a
(07:40):
few more episodes too.
I'm sure I'm going to betalking about this.
We went to a candy store thatwas like Brian's beverage corner
dream, because it had like theweirdest.
It had like weird beverageafter weird beverage, after
weird beverage after weirdbeverage and I was like I'm
getting a bunch of these.
So the first one is I've nevertried it before, but have you
ever heard of a drink calledBalls?
Yeah, b-a-w-l-s.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, that's like Wow .
Speaker 2 (08:08):
It's been around for a long time, I think.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, so that's what 20, 30 years ago.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, it's been around a while, I've just never
tried one before 25 years ago.
Yeah, and it's probably like theOG energy drink, because it's
been around forever and it wasGuarana is the source for the
caffeine or whatever, and thatwas before everybody was doing
Guarana in their drinks.
But I bought a orange sodaBalls.
(08:36):
That is really cool.
Actually I'm drinking on itright now, so that's given me
the energy to push through.
It's a.
I just taste like an orangesoda.
I didn't get the originalflavor so I'd be interested to
see what the original flavor is.
But interesting, like I said,the OG it is a little bit.
(08:58):
This one is like the full sugarversion, so it's like 120
calories for this bottle.
But I was like, yeah, I'm gonnagive it a shot and see, but it
tastes good and you can let meknow as we go through this
record if you see me amped up.
You know, really, I did look itup just to see because I was
curious about how much caffeineit has in it and it doesn't have
(09:18):
that much.
They said for this is a 10 ouncebottle and they said for a 10
ounce bottle it's about 65milligrams of caffeine, which is
about half a cup of coffee.
So compared to the current dayenergy drinks, there are like
200 and 300 milligrams ofcaffeine.
It's actually pretty low, so Idon't imagine that I'll get a
(09:41):
little crazy with it.
The coffee protein that I drinkdoes have caffeine in it as
well, so I'm sort of doubling upa little bit.
But yeah, so that's it.
That's Brian's beverage corner.
That's my crab adventure, and Iwas a little crabby about it.
You are what you eat.
All right, what are you eating?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Well, it's a hearty man's soup.
I don't.
I don't know the brand, I justknow it's like.
I think it's like steak andvegetable soup.
Be careful how you say thatbeef.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
But hearty man.
No, just don't say hearty.
You know you can't.
You gotta put the spaces inthere.
You can't be a hearty man soup,because then it's a soup man.
You have to say a hearty man,hearty man, not hearty man soup,
that's man soup.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
When I hear that, I think of like the locker room.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, no, it's a.
The jacuzzi Smell three or fourguys, three or four guys in the
jacuzzi man soup.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Oh Okay, back backing away quickly.
Yes, so a hearty, hearty mansoup, but it's not quite hearty
enough, I guess.
Okay me, according to Dory.
Yeah so not only does thatstake in it, she had Some
chicken wings that she took themeat off the bones.
(11:01):
Oh nice, put in the soup aswell and threw in some tater
tots.
So it's like there's wow and oh, and more potatoes.
It's like, yeah, meaty, meaty,potato, potato soup.
That's pretty cool.
It's such yeah, it's, it's now,it's super hearty.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Mm-hmm.
It's great for this semi chiliwhether we're rolling with yeah,
I've never heard of that tatertots in a soup.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah, man, it's you know.
You know, I like, I like myculinary cuisine with tater tots
.
I've got tachos yeah, I've got.
And I've talked about beforehow I love to put add stuff to
soup.
Right, the culmination of myculinary delights right in a
single cuisine.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
That's awesome.
What's the base, though?
Is it like broth?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, it's like a beef stew broth base.
Yeah, yeah, you know, withvegetables.
But you know carrots, peas,little chunks of potato, little
chunks of quote steak I meanit's still store-bought canned
soup, so it's like.
You're probably the bareminimum for it to qualify as
steak instead of hamburger.
Got it Okay it's still stillgood.
(12:10):
It's got some looks like someonions and there as well Box of
carrots.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
She spice the chunks of carrots.
Yeah, I had to make it morehearty yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Well, that sounds good.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, it's good and, in terms of beverage, I have
lots of water.
Needing that hydration isimportant when you're speaking
and I also have, becauseStarbucks was out of both Nitro
cold brew and cold brew.
What?
Yeah, it was a busy day.
(12:45):
That's crazy they.
I know that's a big chunk ofmenu.
Yeah they.
They made an iced americano forme and charged me for a regular
cold brew.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Oh nice.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I'm jazzed both in terms of energy and wallet.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, well, they know you over there, there You're a
regular, you.
They're like oh hey, dory, howyou doing, because you're always
ordering at a door.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, there's.
There's many of them who knowmy name too.
Like though it's, it's apleasant little surprise when
they call it.
You know when, instead ofsaying Dory, they say Nick, I'll
say that's one of the bestthings.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
It's one of the best things that any Establishment
can do and it sounds sonarcissistic.
But if I go into someplace andI, oh hey, brian, how are you
like that?
I'm just automatically like, oh, you guys are awesome, I'm
tipping you $100, you know like,just like.
You know like it's just it's,it is very like, but it there's
(13:45):
a some kind of psychology tothat, is like them knowing what
you're gonna order.
In fact, I talked to a guy thata guy that I work with.
Before he took a job in thefinancial sector, he was working
at a Starbucks and he got to bea store manager here locally,
and this was, you know, 20 yearsago.
But he said, yeah, they'reregulars.
(14:08):
They would see the regularswalking in from the parking lot.
They, they seem, get it out oftheir car and they would start
making their drink Becausethey're like, oh, jim's coming
in, he always takes a this andI'm like that's good, that's
like that.
You know and I know it's alittle presumptuous because you
might want to vary your drinkevery once in a while, but you
(14:28):
know, the thing is, I think thatpeople on a Weird, deeper level
like that and you knowSomething like a social contract
or something, you knowsomething like you know, Like
like a trust in, in your fellowhuman man or human person,
excuse me, that is hey, wow I.
(14:50):
My faith is, is a, you know,reinvigorated in my fellow human
being or whatever.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, and this.
This is definitely one of ournominations for best forced
segue.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
What are you talking about?
I'm just talking about thebarbons.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Well, you've sprinkled in references to our
intended topic so well.
I think we should just jumpright in yeah, we probably
should at this point, that's.
Yeah.
All right, you want to yeah, wewant to explore that just the
whole concept of Well, maybe notthe whole concept, but all that
we presently comprehend yeah oryeah discovered together on the
(15:36):
aspect of trust right, and oneof the things that was
fascinating to me is the, thepanel P and and plethora of
definitions available to us.
Yes on trust.
Regarding trust, mm-hmm, you,you got the the litany before
(15:58):
you, or you will me to rattlethings off, or?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I can do this.
You can rattle a couple off.
I've got a couple in front ofme as well.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Okay.
So there's a assured relianceon the character, ability,
strength or truth of Someone orsomething, or one in which
confidence is placed.
I don't get that one.
Let's pretend I didn't readthat.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
All right, you didn't hear that.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
People yeah yeah, we'll take that out in post.
Next your turn.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I have so now, a firm belief in the reliability,
truth, ability or strength ofsomeone or something.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
There's reliance on future payment or property such
as merchandise delivered.
I'm looking at Merriam-Webster,if you're following along at
home.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Oh, I was looking at Oxford, so that's why we're
differing.
That's good.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Oxford.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I mean awkward Well, and this is the next definition
is one of my favorites is anarrangement whereby a person in
parentheses, a trustee holdsproperty as its nominal owner
for the good of the one or morebeneficiaries.
So, which is what I do all thetime, and it's interesting to me
(17:19):
that obviously is using thesame language trusts and
trustees and trustors and stufflike that but at its base level
it really does have a.
There has to be a trustingrelationship there, because
you're putting your faith andtrust in the person and relying
on that person to do what youare asking them to do in the
(17:40):
trust document.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
So right, the executor of the trust right
Executing the will.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Oh man, that feels really deep, but I don't know
how to talk anymore about that,so let's move on.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
We don't get.
We don't get on this podcast.
You know, we just go shallow.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Right, Right Broad and low Right Care or trustee.
So there's the idea of a chargeor duty imposed in faith or
confidence or as a condition ofsome relationship, and the
example is like the child wascommitted to her trust or
(18:25):
committed to you know the samething being care was committed
to her care.
I'm getting into like thefourth definitions of these are
more and more obscure.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Well and I'll say that's almost another legal
thing is it's talking aboutguardian.
You know somebody who's yourguardian and that's obviously a
guardian is a very trustedrelationship.
That person is in charge ofanother person, another human
being, and obviously when youhave kids, you're in charge of
them, at least until they're 18under the eyes of the law.
(18:56):
You know you're responsible forthem, their well being and
everything else.
And then once they turn 18,then some of the rules slightly
change, even though I have an 18year old at home and he's
completely under my care becausehe doesn't work and has no
income and so so he's completelydependent upon us, me and my
wife, to take care of him.
But you know that relationshipis obviously a trusting
(19:18):
relationship that has to have abaseline.
You know level of hey thatyou're going to do what it takes
to make sure that this person'staken care of.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I think it's an interesting dichotomy between
you know what's legal and what'slike actual yes.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Like that, just sort of highlights one of those
examples.
Yes, yeah, we were, we actually.
I was having a conversationrecently about this and it's
just an example of what you justsaid is not necessarily
relating to trust, but there isa weird I will call it a red
zone around the time that anychild turns 18.
(19:58):
And the reason why is becausesome of the rules about, for
instance, child pornography andother things, change because now
that you are an 18 year old solike as an example, you know two
17 year olds are dating, one ofthem turns 18.
Now, all of a sudden, some typeof consensual behavior between
(20:19):
the two of them is looked atdifferently under the eyes of
the law, because one is now over18 years old.
So there's this weird that'sthe only time that that happens
in your life.
If you're 21 and you're datinga 20 year old, there's no
difference.
If you're a 16, 16 year old andyou're dating a 16 year old,
there's no difference.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
But if you're 18 year old, dating a 17 year old, then
there's a difference under theeyes of the law, right, and
while that hard line is drawn,like each person is very
different, there's people whoare 32 years old, who aren't
mature enough for relationships,right, that's right, you know,
(20:55):
just to sort of hyperboleize thesituation.
So, yeah, it's like it's a verygradient sort of thing where
every relationship is unique anddifferent.
The law has to draw a line and,yeah, that red zone is an
interesting way to put it.
Yeah, it's really one of theonly times that we draw right,
(21:20):
like legally driving or legallydrinking or legally selling
alcohol or all the other youknow stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Well, it's one of the only times that your behavior
is looked at differently, basedon just a number of days you've
been on this earth, so you knowit's your behavior.
Could you be behaving inexactly the same way you behaved
before you turned 18, but nowit's a crime, whereas three days
(21:49):
ago, when you were 17, it wasnot a crime?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
So it's a weird thing and, like I said, this doesn't
have to do with our subjecttoday, but it is an interesting
distinction and what you weremaking.
Sure, you know, not like we'venever gone on a tangent on this
podcast ever before, but and Ifully trust that we can move on
to.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Trust is a verb right , like that's another Right,
yeah.
So what are some verbs of trust?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I think I have the same, a similar one to you
believe in the reliability,truth, ability or strength of.
So the quote they have is Ishould never have trusted her
Right.
So you know they don't have inthere, which is interesting.
(22:41):
Maybe we'll get into this inthis topic.
But like they didn't put faith,they have reliability, truth,
ability and strength of, whichto me is all like sort of
circling around the word havefaith in you know, someone else
or something you know.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
So anyway, Well, when , just to inject something semi
random, because, looking at allthese definitions, right, like
we're different ways of sayingthe same thing, because for
trust is a verb.
I'm seeing seven examples here,before we even get to the more
legal stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
It's all about placing confidence and
reliability in that sort ofthing and it reminds me like
I've got to think, and I'm goingto research this to test my
theory.
But trust has a strongconnection with truth.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And like, I feel like this idea of trust and truth
are very early in our conceptsas humans, developing language
and social connections,relationships, tribes and all
that stuff.
Yeah, and if I remember right,the word truth actually is
something that pulls from theidea of tree, which for a long
(23:58):
time was our center, right Likeeverything was relative to a
center, to the tree, and youknow the place that you came
back to, the base, right Liketree, trust, truth.
They all sort of not just startwith a TR, but it's, it has
(24:18):
something to do with our rootsto make a stupid pun out of it.
Yeah, all right, back to ourdefinitions, while I do some
light research on the side here.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Well, and looking further, when I pulled up the
show more, there are actuallyother definitions that do
mention faith.
One of them is have faith orconfidence.
She trusted in the powers ofjustice, so to have faith or
confidence in something else, Iguess I feel like all of these
are Well, I guess one of thethings that we can sort of like
(24:56):
go down the path of is sort ofdifferent types of trust or
trust different type of trust,and one is sort of the it's not
the shallower level, but thereare different types of
relationships we have in ourlife, so there's different types
of trust in my mind for thosedifferent types of relationships
(25:19):
.
So the trust that you have insomebody who you might interact
with once you know, every oncein a while or a stranger you're
in a.
You know, as an example, likewe were For our vacation, we
were on a road trip, so we weregoing places where we were most
likely never going to see thosepeople ever again, the people
(25:40):
that we were interacting with,the cashiers, the servers at the
restaurants.
You know, most likely we'renever going to see those people
again.
Maybe if we do, it'd be yearsand years from now.
But we don't have, we're notdeveloping a relationship with
that person, but we'reinteracting with them, and even
in those relationships there's acertain level of trust that
(26:02):
goes into it.
And I think it's one of thosetypes of things that we take for
granted a little bit, becauseit's always there and you don't
really even realize it.
You just sort of give itbecause and this is, I guess I
already mentioned earlier thesocial contract, but it's sort
of like that it's like we assumethat in all of these
(26:23):
interactions in our life thatpeople are going to behave in a
certain way and that we're goingto behave in a certain way, and
then as long as everybody sortof keeps that going, then that's
the amount of trust that youneed to have.
It's like, hey, I'm going to,you know.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah, I think there's like a baseline of trust either
, that's, Anyone personallyinteract with within our culture
is going to operate within 80plus percent of the standards of
the culture.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
It's like if you go to McDonald's in Kentucky and
you go to McDonald's in Japan,you trust, you have a trust in
the brand and the organizationof McDonald's to give you
roughly the same level ofservice.
It might be a low bar, but youknow that that bar is going to
be met, give or take a fewinches or whatever standard of
(27:25):
unit you want to metaphoricallyuse.
Well, it's interesting,interesting idea oh go ahead.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
No, go ahead.
I interrupted you.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Well I'm just coming back to.
I did do that light research.
Oh yeah, and the etymology oftrust does go to words that
start with D-E-R-U and D-R, suchand such and various languages
like Nordic, germanic,indo-european.
All of it talk about being firm, solid, with specialized senses
(27:59):
towards wood or tree, oak andeven the shaft of a spear.
It's very much when you thinkabout when an arrow flies, true,
or the kinds of when they puttheir trust in tools and weapons
to give them sources of food,like all of those early days of
(28:21):
language.
those things are all connected.
I think it's interesting,though, that trust is something
that's very abstract forsomething that started out very
concrete or solid, I should say,as wood and tree.
So anyway, there's that.
(28:42):
Well, I think the truce is partof that too.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Sorry, go on.
That makes sense.
Well, I guess I was just thepoint that I was sort of trying
to go down the path of.
Is the that type of, like Isaid, the trust that you need to
give to people on an everydaybasis that you really don't?
And we're not talking aboutpeople who you interact with
(29:08):
everyday Work relationships?
You're significant others,you're extended family Although
extended family sometimes youonly see them at family reunions
and other things like that.
So maybe it is a lower levelthat you need to.
You're like hey I only need totrust this person for a certain
amount of time.
The other thing that I thinkI'll bring up is For small talk.
Right, exactly, trust them forsmall talk, yes, and there are
(29:30):
some people who I see veryrarely that I do not trust for
small talk because I know whatwe're going to talk about and I
don't want to talk about thosesubjects.
And I know that we're going totalk about those subjects
because that's that person'snature.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
So you know, it's like how do you know if
someone's an atheist, vegan oryes, crossfit, or does CrossFit?
Yeah, it's like, don't worry,they'll tell you.
Yeah, don't worry.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Wait a second, they'll tell you.
Or, in my case, how do you knowif somebody does their own
podcast?
It's Not really, I mean, Idon't really go around saying it
all the time, but everyonewants to mention it Anyway.
No, but I feel like there's aconnection here to how much do I
(30:20):
need to rely on this person?
Right, like how much?
And that can be a short-termrelationship like, for instance,
an auto mechanic or somethinglike that.
You're like man, I'm placing aluck Because this person does
something wrong.
It could end in my death.
I mean, say, worst casescenario, right, the wheel falls
off your car and you crash anddie.
(30:41):
Or multiple deaths, yeah, right,so you're placing a lot of
trust that I think a lot ofpeople, at least me, like.
I take that for granted alittle bit.
I think my I just assume, whichI think is different than
that's a good question, I don'tknow.
Do you think that assumingsomething is a level of trust?
Like I assume that my mechanic,when I say fix this, this and
(31:02):
this, that they're gonna, how doI know if they changed my oil?
I don't know that.
I don't open the oil and lookat it and smell it and taste it
and do whatever you know.
So I just assume, if I ask youto change my oil and pay you
$100, that my oil's changedright, right.
So is that the same as trusting?
You're right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah, they wave a little wand over it.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
So I'm gonna hurry potter stuff and my oil has now
changed Vehicle fixium orwhatever.
I don't know what the spellwould be.
Well, it opens for a.
But basically, you know, isthat the same as trust?
I don't know.
I mean, like I said, it's just,it's in my mind because I'm
thinking.
I don't even consider thattrust, I just consider that an
(31:48):
assumption.
But I guess it is trust.
I don't know.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
I like it.
I think that's a solidconnection.
I want to think on more and itdoes create for me, like one of
my favorite phrases.
One of my favorite things to dois challenge assumptions, right
, and I always thought that iskind of a skeptical thing.
(32:15):
But with the kind of connectionyou're making, I realized that
in a way, it is maybe a slightlyhealthy representation of
anxiety, right, or a way toaddress anxiety or a lack of
trust.
Yeah, I think that's a goodquestion.
So, yeah, like I think Idefinitely think there's
something there.
(32:35):
Um, I guess, I guess I'll justsay you're right, yeah, Wow,
that's a bet.
That's right, brian, but he'sthat you're right or he's that I
admitted you're right.
You said anything to add?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I'm kind of like you, kind of pated me to a corner
right.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
It's like I'm just saying I'm talking about trust
and, yeah, if I don't, if Idon't assume you're right, then
I'm not trusting you.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
So, yeah, that's the best name tag ever by the way,
Nick is taking his jacket offand he's got the best name tag
ever on.
Forgot I did that.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Yeah, it's he put Starbucks.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah, it's my Starbucks sticker For those of
you out in the audience.
He took his Starbucks stickeroff of the coffee and put it on
his left chest you know area onhis shirt and it looks like it's
in the name tag goes.
Yeah, but it says like door.
I'm sure it says Dory and itprobably says americano or
whatever you got.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Well, they yeah grande.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Oh they were, they were real sweet cream.
Yeah yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
And you're in grande Well, so like I said, you are
what you drink American grand,grand, grand.
Some people call me trained, youknow but yeah, I get what
(34:03):
you're saying about, likethey're sort of like a baseline
amount of trust that we givepeople, and I think it does fly
in the face of that phrase Idon't know if everyone in the
audience has heard it or not buttrust is earned, not given.
Yeah, it's like, actually, Ithink there is kind of a benefit
(34:23):
of the doubt, you know, that wegive to people.
We at least trust that they'rehuman.
Yeah, at least trust that theyhave some morals.
We just don't know whichparticular flavor of morality
they adhere to, or what whatrules they take as suggestions
and vice versa.
Yeah, you know their uniqueblend of trustworthiness.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, well, I think one of the one of the
connections we can make here toois you've already sort of
touched on a little bit and wehave just in our conversation
back and forth If we can callthis conversation or banter
whatever the fact that there arecertain people who have
different attitudes about youknow, some people approach
(35:08):
things as, hey, I'm going to nottrust anything until I'm given
a reason to trust it.
And there are other people whoand I, find myself on the other
end of the spectrum.
I think I trust actually alittle bit too much.
I think I'm slightly.
I could probably be conned, Icould probably be.
You know, I'm slightly gulliblein that, because I'm very
trusting of people and and youknow, who knows, I may have been
(35:31):
taken advantage of a few timesin my life because of that.
So I think that's interestingand making it, you know, as we
always do, trying to make tiesto subjects we've previously
talked about, I think that tiesinto personality types.
You know me being a nine andbeing a peacekeeper, is you?
know, I'm going to.
I'm going to assume that otherpeople are coming at the world
(35:53):
the same way, like yourworldview is, hey, I assume that
most people are like me, and soI'm going to go ahead and
that's how I'm going to approacheverything else.
Unfortunately, not everyone's anine, some people are eights
and they're hey, I want to win,if I want to win, and I want to
make you lose, right and so so,like I said, and your, your
(36:16):
personality type is muchdifferent in the way and the way
that you you know you approachthings is much more questioning,
and I know when I first, I meanas a reminder I am, I am also a
peacemaker, but sure.
I also have strong, stronganalytical or investigator type,
exactly, and we can go back tostrengths, strengths finders to
(36:38):
see that because I'm morepersonal, I'm a more personality
.
Three out of my five ispersonality, but yours are all
analytical.
You know behind the scenes kindof or not all but most are not
personality based, and so that'sthe difference between us in
terms of the nines that we are,but it always it gets me.
I'm it when I first startedeven just doing like when I met
(37:02):
you and when I first starteddoing this podcast with you.
It always gets me.
When it's like, I'm always likewhy are you questioning this?
Why, why?
Why do you keep askingquestions?
Why don't you just like trustthis?
You know?
Why don't you just like trustwhat I'm saying, like, and you
can to me?
I felt like very distrusting ofme, but that was my own thing
of like taking somethingpersonally, you know.
But the thing is it can feellike that, I'm sure.
(37:24):
I'm sure I don't know.
You tell me, do you think peopleat your work are always like
dude?
Why is Nick always have to like?
Why do you always have to likeask questions about stuff?
Why don't you just like be likeyeah, let's go with that, you
know, and you're like well,let's talk, even if and it's
like with you, it's even if yousomething, you're all.
Yeah, I totally agree with that100%, but let's ask 50
questions about it first beforewe go forward with it, you know
(37:45):
so, yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
I mean, yeah, people don't like being asked why.
Because it has put them on thedefense right.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
And it's.
I don't know.
There's different attitudes youcan have when you're
questioning.
There could be, like that,skepticism of the person or
skepticism of the impression,the way the evidence was
gathered or the conclusionsdrawn from the evidence.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
But it's also just like there's a curiosity to.
It's like hey, I'm, that's areally compelling conclusion.
How did you get there?
Like maybe I could developcompelling conclusions of my own
from with different materialaltogether right, like I could
just be interested in thethought process in general.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Well, and that's what I'll follow it up with is, like
you know, even though my firstimpression was that for a while,
I've come to learn that it's tome.
Now I view it as more of youwanting to be completely
thorough in analyzing reallyanything, and it doesn't matter
whether it's the coffee you'reordering or whether it's the
program that you're putting inplace for your work, or whether
(38:51):
it's something with Toastmastersor whether anything else.
It's like.
You just want to make sure thatthe questions get asked, and
many times people don't ask thequestion, so it's a valuable
resource to have that.
You're like hey, let's justkick the tires.
I mean, I'm not sayinganything's wrong with it, but
let me kick the tires, let'sjust make sure, let's verify.
Well, let's just make sure we'reall seeing the same thing here,
(39:12):
Like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yeah, and honestly, brian, I used to be a very
trusting person until one day Iwent to a Chinese buffet and I
didn't check the health scoreuntil after I had five plates.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah, and that made me just that.
That was the beginning, thatwas the trigger point for my
downward spiral into questioningeverything I had about as many
unpleasant bowel movements as Ihad plates, and I learned
valuable lessons in trusting butverifying, and maybe verifying
before trusting right.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Because, like hey, is the health food score 76?
Maybe don't eat there or haveone plate and yeah, eat a lot of
good food.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
At least know what you're getting into.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Exactly and then what you're going to be doing
afterwards, right, you can carveout the time in your schedule
If it's right to you, that would.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Well, I just, like I said, I feel like I feel like
there's a point to be made in inthose, the levels of trust that
we're talking about.
Like I said, not the longerterm relationships we have in
our life or the people weinteract with all the time.
But you know, there's thatsocial contract and another
concept that we have talkedabout in the past on this
(40:34):
podcast that we, as I said toyou before, we were recording
like we didn't know that thesewere called this, but I've been
reading a lot of things aboutintrusive thoughts.
So, you know thoughts of, hey,what if I just?
You know it's usually negative.
It's like, you know, you'rewalking by somebody that's
looking off the edge of a cliffand you're like, hey, if I just
(40:56):
pushed that person, they wouldfall to their death.
You know that kind of thought.
It's an intrusive thought.
That's really not something tobe acted upon, unless you have
some other kind of mentalproblem, right.
But the normal person has thosethoughts and then goes, yeah,
that's stupid, why would youthat?
No, you don't kill other people, you don't push people off
cliffs, right?
(41:17):
But that's the kind of trustthat we're talking about here,
and I know it's extreme.
It's extreme what we're talkingabout, but there's so many
interactions we have every daythat could result in our death.
This man this sounds like I'm,that sounds like I'm just
turning into like the totalnegative.
Yeah you're not showing Like wecould die every day, every time
(41:41):
you wake up out of bed, youcould die.
You get out of bed, you coulddie.
You take a shower, you coulddie.
Like I don't know why I'm inthis kind of death mood, anyway,
no, but my I guess my boy'sspiral Exactly so.
No, but like this is the kind oftrust we're talking about, of
(42:02):
your, that I think again, I feellike we take this for granted
is when you're driving down thestreet it's a two lane street
and all that's separating youfrom the oncoming traffic is a
yellow line we're trusting thatthat person is not falling
asleep, is not inebriated, isalso not just going to jerk the
wheel and run into the front ofour car.
And and that's a that's aninteresting concept to me it's
(42:27):
the.
It's a lot of trust to give,like when you at first, when I
thought about it, I thought well, these are short term.
When you have a short terminteraction with someone, the
level of trust is very low.
But when you start to thinkabout it, the way that I'm
thinking about it, all of asudden now you're like well,
actually I'm trust.
This is all.
That's a lot of trust to giveto other people that I have.
(42:49):
No, I don't know what theirname is, I don't know where they
live, I don't know what theircircumstances are.
I don't know anything aboutthis person and I'm just giving
the level of trust that, hey,just don't do this so that you
don't injure, maim or kill me.
So I thought it was justinteresting, because it was Like
I said, the interactions.
You would just automaticallythink it's a low level of trust,
(43:10):
but to me it can actually be ahigher level of trust.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
We trust that people have similar survival instincts
as we do.
They have just as much interestin staying on their side of the
road as we do.
It's just that very smallpercentage of population who are
unhinged or highly depressiveor depressed or whatever.
I think the other thing Iwanted to bring up in this
(43:39):
conversation is the marshmallowtest.
Oh yeah, for those in theaudience who may have heard of
it, you might be thinking why amI bringing up delayed
gratification in ourconversation with trust, if
you're not familiar with themarshmallow test?
Very briefly, it was just anexperiment, a social experiment
(44:01):
done in the 1960s, popularizedin the 90s, where kids were put
in a room.
A proctor or a scientist,somebody in a lab coat, said hey
, here's a marshmallow on aplate.
You can eat it now, but I'mgoing to go away and come back
If the marshmallow is stillthere.
When I come back in about 15minutes, I'll give you a second
(44:26):
marshmallow and you can eat bothof them.
Then they just watched the kidfor those 15 minutes before the
person came back.
There were kids who did andthere were kids who didn't.
It was all this interesting toeverybody about what tactics
they used to imagine that themarshmallow wasn't real, or turn
(44:48):
away or whatever to delaygratification.
Then they followed those kids15 years later, 25 years later,
and compared them against thecontrol group.
Lo and behold, those who waitedfor the second marshmallow were
more likely to graduate college, more likely to make more money
, more likely to have long-termrelationships that last and were
(45:12):
happy, so on and so forth.
The whole lesson, the wholetakeaway was hey, those who
learned delayed gratificationearly win over the long period.
It's a great story.
Except the experiment hasn'tbeen proven out in repeatable
experiments.
What they've since learned isthat what it really tests is
(45:37):
whether how much the childtrusts adults, trusts strangers,
kids.
What they found is that kidswho grew up in impoverished
homes or youths of homes aremuch less likely to trust the
experiment person who says I'llbe back in about 15 minutes.
(45:57):
And not surprisingly, kids whogrew up in those sorts of
environments have feweradvantages, have fewer
opportunities to take advantageof, and so fewer roles at the
dice mean fewer chances forsuccess and therefore less
likely to go to college, lesslikely to have great careers and
(46:22):
less likely to have long-termrelationships.
And I list those three thingsseparately.
I'm a firm believer that onedoes not need college to have a
fulfilling career I'm myself andproof and one does not.
Yeah, all that stuff.
There are three distinct thingsthat hopefully correlate in
each person's life, and sothat's.
(46:44):
The thing, though, is that whenour daily experience and daily
interaction with people whetherit's authority figures or
friends or family, or all theabove prove that people are
generally untrustworthy, thatbleeds out into faith in society
(47:05):
, faith in the system or lackthereof, and that betrayal of
trust, I don't know getsreinforced right.
There's the confirmation bias,too.
That makes that a downwardspiral, or an upward spiral,
(47:25):
depending on the situation.
So, yeah, I just I don't know.
I think that's a valuableconsideration and takeaway from
the Marshmallow Test.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Though the Marshmallow Test doesn't prove
the benefits of delayedgratification, I do still
believe in the benefits ofdelayed gratification Sure.
I just want to make sure thatthe tests match the conclusions
you know.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
So yeah, rant over.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah, no, that's your chance.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Brian.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
No, I was just going to say I just comment on it.
It's interesting that I meanit's logical, which I say that
in a certain way because youknow a lot of things that are
logical doesn't necessarily meanthey're right.
It's just how we talk aboutconfirmation bias you already
mentioned, like there's a lot ofpeople who go by logic and
you're like no logic doesn'tnecessarily track here in the
sciences it's.
(48:18):
It's what can we prove?
What's been proven?
What's the science say Right,even the, even the soft sciences
, the social sciences.
You know, there there areexperiments just like that.
One is a social scienceexperiment and but I think that
it's interesting that you know.
So one of the things that I thatgoes through my mind is that is
(48:39):
is the assumptions that aremade by the kid, that not
necessarily made consciously,but the assumptions that are
made by the kid that is in thatexperiment is that the system
works completely the way thatit's supposed to work.
So when somebody says to you,don't eat this marshmallow,
you're going to get twomarshmallows, your brain has to
(49:02):
say, okay, I and I'm going todrop the bomb of this word I'm
going to trust that that's goingto happen, that when that
person in the white lab coatcomes back in I'm actually going
to get two.
And if that works, then in yourhead you say, well, yeah, it is
delayed gratification, it iseverything else.
But in what?
(49:22):
If your head says, yeah, butthat person could also come back
in the room and say you knowwhat things have changed while I
was out of the room?
Actually, you're not going toget the marshmallow that you had
before and you're going to getno marshmallows.
So if you have that in yourbrain, you know, or your brain
subconsciously maybe, even leapsto that conclusion, then having
the one marshmallow now is thebetter option.
(49:44):
If there's a potential that youwill get zero marshmallows at
least, then you get one right,and so I feel like that's a.
It's something that again goesback to the personality type or
the experiences that thatperson's had.
I know that some of thearticles that I read about basic
levels of trust are they talkeda lot about behaviors.
(50:05):
So you doing behaviors thatmake you trustworthy, but also
other people behaving in a waythat allows you to understand
that they are trustworthy, andin that case you've got children
who are trying to learn how theworld works, and their only way
to learn how the world works istheir experiences of it.
And if their experiences of itare, hey, you might get dinner,
you might not, then that'sthat's what they're going to
(50:30):
filter everything throughwhether that's known to them at
the time.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
How hungry how hungry was the kid when he walked into
the experiment, you know likedo you have breakfast or not?
Like you, bet, he's going toeat that marshmallow now.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
That's right, that's right.
Or she, you know, or even Imean even go the other direction
is like a kid that believesthat he'll get two marshmallows
but doesn't like marshmallows.
So then you're like you know,like you know what, I'll delay
the gratification to two, but Idon't really even want the one,
you know so.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
Like I guess I'll eat it now so I don't have to eat
two.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Right, exactly, yeah, I was like no, I already ate it
, you don't need to give meanother one.
I'm fine, I'm good.
Thank you.
Do you have any apples backthere?
I'll take an apple, it'shilarious.
Yeah Well, so so the only otherthing I'll say in this, like in
this sort of you know section ofthe you know our episodes that
we're doing, of you know talkingabout sort of more
(51:28):
individualized or smaller levelrelationships, is the
correlation between self-esteem,which I this is something that
was a surprise to me is acorrelation of self-esteem and
trust, and people with higherself-esteem versus lower
self-esteem, and whether or notthey were more likely to trust
or distrust people, and I'malways into this.
(51:49):
This is a big episode.
If you have the bingo card,you've already won, because I've
dropped like every possiblething out there.
So the you know the NathanielBrandon book, which is the one
that I always go back to.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
The.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Deficient of Self-Esteem.
Right, and I pulled it up theexperience of being competent to
cope with the basic challengesof life and being worthy of self
or, excuse me, being worthy ofhappiness, so that the
experience of being competent tocope with the basic challenges
of life is trust in yourself,like I trust that I have the
(52:25):
resources and the brain powerand the everything else to deal
with the basic challenges that Iwill incur throughout my
lifetime.
And so do you trust that?
Do you trust yourself?
Do you trust that you've beengiven the tools to deal with the
things that come up in life,the things that everyone's going
to, everyone's going toexperience in life at some point
(52:48):
?
You know, and the really thecorrelation that they've come up
with, is that people with lowerself-esteem are less likely to
trust others.
And this is me just trying toconnect the dots is, if you
don't trust yourself, then howare you going to trust others?
Right?
(53:09):
So, again going back to the.
If you don't feel like you're,you feel like the rest of the
world is acting the way that youact, or has the same, is
looking at the world through thesame glasses.
You're looking through theworld at in with.
So I just feel like that's a Idon't know.
I feel like it's an interesting, interesting thing about
(53:33):
self-trust versus trustingothers.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
It's a bit of that projection game, right, like if
I'm trustworthy, I kind ofassume other people are
trustworthy too, if I can counton myself now.
I'm a person.
Hey, you're a person, I canprobably count on you too.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
I think there's almost like this reverse
projection that can go on too.
I feel like I have thisintuition that if someone
doesn't find me trustworthy, Ialso don't trust them as much,
because you can't con a conartist, you can't fake a faker.
If they're probably projecting.
(54:10):
If they themselves aren'ttrustworthy, they probably don't
trust other people, right?
I'm looking at them and readingtheir own projection.
If they can't trust others,they're probably operating from
the assumption that hey, I'm nottrustworthy, so I don't trust
people.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
There's got to be a bias.
That's regard to that.
I don't know if we covered itor not, but I feel like the
natural tendency for most peopleis to assume other people.
So again, you can't con a conartist.
If you're somebody who conspeople, you're going to assume
everyone in the world is tryingto con you, right?
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Right, everybody's got a gimmick or a game, right,
what's your angle?
What's their angle?
Angle, that's it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
Yeah, so you're basically your trust levels are
really low because you aretrying to find people that have
high levels of trust so that youcan con them, right, and you're
trying to develop that trust,but you also have a guard up
because you're saying, yeah,this is not how the world works.
(55:17):
If you will, well, and so, yeah, the only other thing that we
haven't mentioned and I think Imeant to mention it back when we
were talking about we wereearlier in this episode, I can't
remember what we were talkingabout but is and this is again
another name drop but StevenCovey, as I name drop in every
(55:37):
episode, talks about theemotional bank account.
Right, and that's in essence inhaving trusting relationships
is, every time you do something,you do a behavior that makes
you trustworthy or that makesthe other person trust you more,
you're making a small depositinto this emotional bank account
right.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
I think let's go in deep on that in the next episode
, okay, but I do think it playsinto sort of like whenever you
meet a total random person, it'salmost like they start with a
standard balance of thatemotional bank account.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Maybe if I'm not a trusting person, then the total
stranger starts with a negativebalance.
Speaker 2 (56:18):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (56:19):
They start in debt Like they've got to.
They got to prove they'retrustworthy.
Yeah, Things assumed there.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (56:25):
Or more, like most people, people start with the
base level of trust.
If they've got a barista apronon, I trust you start with a
base balance of difficultbarista, you know, or a base
balance of decent person.
So yeah, but I think when wetalk about personal
relationships there's a lot moredepth to that emotional bank
(56:47):
concept.
Speaker 2 (56:49):
Yeah.
And I think that was the onlyand that was really the only
thing I wanted to mention isthat that you're a person,
you're more on the individuallevel, your personality, in
those smaller relationships ortheir smaller interactions,
plays into.
Where does that and my like asan example, mine I'm, I think,
too trusting.
So I think most people for mestart with a positive you know,
(57:11):
a positive level of trust, andthat's probably too trusting for
strangers because I have theability to.
You know, potentially somebodycould use that assumption or use
that thing that I'm making thattrust balance or that emotional
bank balance in order to takeadvantage of me, whereas
somebody who starts as a skeptic, in a negative or a zero
(57:33):
balance, like, hey, you got toearn my trust.
That they're, you know they'regonna, they're protecting
themselves a little bit more,they're not going to be hurt as
much or potentially swindled.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
So yeah, and I think that goes back to their opening
quote right, the best way tofind out if you can trust
somebody is to trust them.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
Dude, that is crazy.
We did full circle in exactlyan hour right back to the, the
opening quote.
We've never done that.
That's amazing.
Oh, hashtag, pro, pro for life,all right.
Well, so yeah, in the nextepisode I think we'll talk about
some, some of the other othertypes of relationships,
(58:12):
different levels of trust andmore about the emotional bank
account and other things likethat.
But, all right, I think that'sthe best closing we can do next
time.
Agreed, all right, I trust youBrian.
Welcome to Help Yourself.
Food and Philosophy with Brianand Nick.
I'm Nick and I'm Brian.
Thank you, brian.
The best way to find out if youcan trust somebody is to trust
them.
Thanks, ernest Hemingway.
What's?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
eating.
Brian, that's a little bit.
That's hazardous.
I feel like that's a hazardousway to go about.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Life is risky, brother, Every time you open
your eyes as you're rolling thedice.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, well, I mean, and that's I would be good with
snake eyes.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Well, what am I eating?
So I'm fresh off vacation so Iactually had a few food
experiences that I wanted totalk about, the first one being
a I hadn't had crab for a longtime.
We went to a place that hasseafood, so down on the Gulf of
Mexico, and there was a lot ofplaces that serve seafood and I
(01:04):
rarely will get lobster or crab,and the reason why is just
because it's so pricey.
But I was on vacation and I'mlike you know what, I'm gonna
splurge a little.
I'm gonna get myself some snowcrab legs it was like a crab
boil, you know and came withlike eight crab legs and corn
and potatoes and you know side.
I think it had like a side ofsomething else as well, and so I
(01:28):
can say that I was a little bitdisappointed.
So I forgot.
It's the thing is, I forgot howmuch work it was to eat crab,
like I'm so used to, likegetting like a crab roll or a
crab cake or something like that.
That's just like no, you pullthe crab out of the crab for me
and I'll eat the crab.
And this they just bring likeone of those plastic nets you
(01:50):
know.
They have like those plasticnets that hold it all together
so that while you're boilingyour stuff you know it doesn't
all like fly all over the placeand they, you know so they give
it to you on the plate withbutter and with, like other, you
know, the accoutre-mol, if youwill.
Wow, wow.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
That was crazy.
Yeah, multi-lingual vocabularyhere, geez.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Everyone's why I like to drop a bomb like that on
this podcast, you know.
Man, I am baffled Anyway, so Ihad all the stuff with it.
See how I downgraded that tojust stuff.
And it's just stuff, stuff thatcomes with it, related stuff.
(02:42):
So they gave me all the tools,they gave me like the cracker
thing and they gave me this likelittle tiny mini fork with two
prongs on it.
That was plastic, so you couldlike poke the stuff out and pull
the stuff out and all thisstuff and it was for like my
whole family was done eatingcompletely.
And they're like are you evergoing to finish?
I'm like dude, I'm barelystarting.
This.
This is like takes me forever.
(03:04):
And then you crack open thestuff and it's like sometimes
very disappointing for all thework.
You like crack it open, you getthe leg open and you're like,
wow, there's like one bite ofmeat in here, like mm, that was
good and okay.
Now I got to crack somethingelse, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And that had to be terrible for you as a peacemaker
.
Like everyone's just watchingyou eat Like are you done yet?
Well, I would say the rest ofthe I can just take it home.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I can just throw it away.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
It's okay, I don't need to eat.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I mean I will say that the restaurant we went to
was crazy anyway, because it waslike picture, an open warehouse
style restaurant with, like, ifyou've seen those gigantic fans
, like if you've ever been toCostco or one, or like sometimes
they haven't been Home Depot orLowe's, you know the big, huge.
Actually there's a brand namelike called Big Ass Fans.
That is and that wasn't a cuss,because it's the actual brand
(03:53):
name.
That's like these gigantic fansthat they put into these places
.
Right, I've seen them in gymsand things.
Hey, it's Dory, look at that.
Hey, good to see you.
Dory, she can't hear me becauseshe's here in your.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah, say hi Hello.
Hello, dory, very hot, thenwe'll be home.
We are recording.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Dory's delivering the food.
Yeah, so this picture like anopen warehouse style thing with
like industrial style tables,metal chairs, but these tables
were like built for giganticparties, so like there were
tables next to us that couldhold 12 people, you know easily.
And so there were these hugefamily parties because this is
(04:31):
an area where people are onvacation with their extended
family, there's going to belarger parties and it was a very
like.
You know, at one end it waslike the whole end of it was a
gigantic bar and it wasn't busywhen we were there, but it was
just.
But then here's the other crazything about it.
The reason why I said it wascrazy is not just that that
sounds like a pretty standard,like hey, it's a crab boil kind
of restaurant, but every hoursomeone came out on a microphone
(04:55):
and the whole staff came outand like did a dance and like
they said anybody who hasbirthdays in the next two months
, you need to point that personout for us.
And then they told those peopleto stand on their table, on top
of their table.
So like these people arestanding on top of the tables
and they're like, hey, we got towish them a happy birthday.
It was the craziest restaurantI've ever been to.
(05:16):
I went to the bathroom and Icame out and there was somebody
with a microphone and peoplewere standing on the tables.
I was like what is happeningright now?
I have no idea what's going onhere.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
That doesn't sound very sanitary.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I was.
That's exactly the question Iasked.
I was like, how did they getthis around the sanitation laws?
This is crazy.
Like people with their, did you?
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Do you look at the health food score on the way in?
Was it like a 72?
No, to be honest, they did not.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I did not.
I just ate the food and had agood time, and yeah, and then,
yeah, so anyway.
So I had this, I had the crabboil.
It took me forever.
I didn't get very much meat out, even though it was like a one
pound.
It says it was a one pound crabboil.
I feel like maybe there wasfour or five ounces of meat in
that.
It was so.
(06:03):
That's including the shells andthe butter, the shell and
everything else exactly, and soI was saying I was a little bit.
I would have much rather havehad like peel and eat shrimp,
because at least those I knowthey're easier to peel.
You know how much meat's gonnabe coming out of them, because
there's a thin, thin skin onthem and they usually are pretty
big and hefty and I should havegotten that.
But anyway, overall I mean, theflavor was good, everything was
(06:26):
good with it.
It was.
There was nothing wrong with it.
It's just I forgot how hard itwas to deal with that and also,
if there's nobody else at yourtable eating that, then you're
gonna be the last one eating,for sure.
There's no way.
So anyway, that was myexperience with the crab.
I probably won't be gettingcrab anytime soon, unless it's a
(06:47):
crab cake or a crab roll andsomebody else has done the heavy
lifting for me.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
So I think together we need to invent the crab shake
.
The crab shake, you know, it'sso convenient.
You don't even have to doanything, you just suck through
a straw.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
That does not sound appetizing at all.
So okay, so that Brian'sbeverage corner.
What am I drinking, too?
I've got my shaker bottle here.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I'm not shaker bottle .
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I've got my Fahrenheit bottle here with some
Agua water in it I've got.
I also have a protein bottle, ashaker with a protein coffee
drink in it that I've beendrinking, the thing that has
weaned me off of my Starbucksfor a little while.
I only have Starbucks as atreat now and then this and a
(07:40):
few more episodes too.
I'm sure I'm going to betalking about this.
We went to a candy store thatwas like Brian's beverage corner
dream, because it had like theweirdest.
It had like weird beverageafter weird beverage, after
weird beverage after weirdbeverage and I was like I'm
getting a bunch of these.
So the first one is I've nevertried it before, but have you
ever heard of a drink calledBalls?
Yeah, b-a-w-l-s.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, that's like Wow .
Speaker 2 (08:08):
It's been around for a long time, I think.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, so that's what 20, 30 years ago.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, it's been around a while, I've just never
tried one before 25 years ago.
Yeah, and it's probably like theOG energy drink, because it's
been around forever and it wasGuarana is the source for the
caffeine or whatever, and thatwas before everybody was doing
Guarana in their drinks.
But I bought a orange sodaBalls.
(08:36):
That is really cool.
Actually I'm drinking on itright now, so that's given me
the energy to push through.
It's a.
I just taste like an orangesoda.
I didn't get the originalflavor so I'd be interested to
see what the original flavor is.
But interesting, like I said,the OG it is a little bit.
(08:58):
This one is like the full sugarversion, so it's like 120
calories for this bottle.
But I was like, yeah, I'm gonnagive it a shot and see, but it
tastes good and you can let meknow as we go through this
record if you see me amped up.
You know, really, I did look itup just to see because I was
curious about how much caffeineit has in it and it doesn't have
(09:18):
that much.
They said for this is a 10 ouncebottle and they said for a 10
ounce bottle it's about 65milligrams of caffeine, which is
about half a cup of coffee.
So compared to the current dayenergy drinks, there are like
200 and 300 milligrams ofcaffeine.
It's actually pretty low, so Idon't imagine that I'll get a
(09:41):
little crazy with it.
The coffee protein that I drinkdoes have caffeine in it as
well, so I'm sort of doubling upa little bit.
But yeah, so that's it.
That's Brian's beverage corner.
That's my crab adventure, and Iwas a little crabby about it.
You are what you eat.
All right, what are you eating?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Well, it's a hearty man's soup.
I don't.
I don't know the brand, I justknow it's like.
I think it's like steak andvegetable soup.
Be careful how you say thatbeef.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
But hearty man.
No, just don't say hearty.
You know you can't.
You gotta put the spaces inthere.
You can't be a hearty man soup,because then it's a soup man.
You have to say a hearty man,hearty man, not hearty man soup,
that's man soup.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
When I hear that, I think of like the locker room.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, no, it's a.
The jacuzzi Smell three or fourguys, three or four guys in the
jacuzzi man soup.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Oh Okay, back backing away quickly.
Yes, so a hearty, hearty mansoup, but it's not quite hearty
enough, I guess.
Okay me, according to Dory.
Yeah so not only does thatstake in it, she had Some
chicken wings that she took themeat off the bones.
(11:01):
Oh nice, put in the soup aswell and threw in some tater
tots.
So it's like there's wow and oh, and more potatoes.
It's like, yeah, meaty, meaty,potato, potato soup.
That's pretty cool.
It's such yeah, it's, it's now,it's super hearty.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Mm-hmm.
It's great for this semi chiliwhether we're rolling with yeah,
I've never heard of that tatertots in a soup.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah, man, it's you know.
You know, I like, I like myculinary cuisine with tater tots
.
I've got tachos yeah, I've got.
And I've talked about beforehow I love to put add stuff to
soup.
Right, the culmination of myculinary delights right in a
single cuisine.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
That's awesome.
What's the base, though?
Is it like broth?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, it's like a beef stew broth base.
Yeah, yeah, you know, withvegetables.
But you know carrots, peas,little chunks of potato, little
chunks of quote steak I meanit's still store-bought canned
soup, so it's like.
You're probably the bareminimum for it to qualify as
steak instead of hamburger.
Got it Okay it's still stillgood.
(12:10):
It's got some looks like someonions and there as well Box of
carrots.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
She spice the chunks of carrots.
Yeah, I had to make it morehearty yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Well, that sounds good.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, it's good and, in terms of beverage, I have
lots of water.
Needing that hydration isimportant when you're speaking
and I also have, becauseStarbucks was out of both Nitro
cold brew and cold brew.
What?
Yeah, it was a busy day.
(12:45):
That's crazy they.
I know that's a big chunk ofmenu.
Yeah they.
They made an iced americano forme and charged me for a regular
cold brew.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Oh nice.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I'm jazzed both in terms of energy and wallet.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, well, they know you over there, there You're a
regular, you.
They're like oh hey, dory, howyou doing, because you're always
ordering at a door.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, there's.
There's many of them who knowmy name too.
Like though it's, it's apleasant little surprise when
they call it.
You know when, instead ofsaying Dory, they say Nick, I'll
say that's one of the bestthings.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
It's one of the best things that any Establishment
can do and it sounds sonarcissistic.
But if I go into someplace andI, oh hey, brian, how are you
like that?
I'm just automatically like, oh, you guys are awesome, I'm
tipping you $100, you know like,just like.
You know like it's just it's,it is very like, but it there's
(13:45):
a some kind of psychology tothat, is like them knowing what
you're gonna order.
In fact, I talked to a guy thata guy that I work with.
Before he took a job in thefinancial sector, he was working
at a Starbucks and he got to bea store manager here locally,
and this was, you know, 20 yearsago.
But he said, yeah, they'reregulars.
(14:08):
They would see the regularswalking in from the parking lot.
They, they seem, get it out oftheir car and they would start
making their drink Becausethey're like, oh, jim's coming
in, he always takes a this andI'm like that's good, that's
like that.
You know and I know it's alittle presumptuous because you
might want to vary your drinkevery once in a while, but you
(14:28):
know, the thing is, I think thatpeople on a Weird, deeper level
like that and you knowSomething like a social contract
or something, you knowsomething like you know, Like
like a trust in, in your fellowhuman man or human person,
excuse me, that is hey, wow I.
(14:50):
My faith is, is a, you know,reinvigorated in my fellow human
being or whatever.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, and this.
This is definitely one of ournominations for best forced
segue.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
What are you talking about?
I'm just talking about thebarbons.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Well, you've sprinkled in references to our
intended topic so well.
I think we should just jumpright in yeah, we probably
should at this point, that's.
Yeah.
All right, you want to yeah, wewant to explore that just the
whole concept of Well, maybe notthe whole concept, but all that
we presently comprehend yeah oryeah discovered together on the
(15:36):
aspect of trust right, and oneof the things that was
fascinating to me is the, thepanel P and and plethora of
definitions available to us.
Yes on trust.
Regarding trust, mm-hmm, you,you got the the litany before
(15:58):
you, or you will me to rattlethings off, or?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I can do this.
You can rattle a couple off.
I've got a couple in front ofme as well.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Okay.
So there's a assured relianceon the character, ability,
strength or truth of Someone orsomething, or one in which
confidence is placed.
I don't get that one.
Let's pretend I didn't readthat.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
All right, you didn't hear that.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
People yeah yeah, we'll take that out in post.
Next your turn.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I have so now, a firm belief in the reliability,
truth, ability or strength ofsomeone or something.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
There's reliance on future payment or property such
as merchandise delivered.
I'm looking at Merriam-Webster,if you're following along at
home.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Oh, I was looking at Oxford, so that's why we're
differing.
That's good.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Oxford.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I mean awkward Well, and this is the next definition
is one of my favorites is anarrangement whereby a person in
parentheses, a trustee holdsproperty as its nominal owner
for the good of the one or morebeneficiaries.
So, which is what I do all thetime, and it's interesting to me
(17:19):
that obviously is using thesame language trusts and
trustees and trustors and stufflike that but at its base level
it really does have a.
There has to be a trustingrelationship there, because
you're putting your faith andtrust in the person and relying
on that person to do what youare asking them to do in the
(17:40):
trust document.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
So right, the executor of the trust right
Executing the will.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Oh man, that feels really deep, but I don't know
how to talk anymore about that,so let's move on.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
We don't get.
We don't get on this podcast.
You know, we just go shallow.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Right, Right Broad and low Right Care or trustee.
So there's the idea of a chargeor duty imposed in faith or
confidence or as a condition ofsome relationship, and the
example is like the child wascommitted to her trust or
(18:25):
committed to you know the samething being care was committed
to her care.
I'm getting into like thefourth definitions of these are
more and more obscure.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Well and I'll say that's almost another legal
thing is it's talking aboutguardian.
You know somebody who's yourguardian and that's obviously a
guardian is a very trustedrelationship.
That person is in charge ofanother person, another human
being, and obviously when youhave kids, you're in charge of
them, at least until they're 18under the eyes of the law.
(18:56):
You know you're responsible forthem, their well being and
everything else.
And then once they turn 18,then some of the rules slightly
change, even though I have an 18year old at home and he's
completely under my care becausehe doesn't work and has no
income and so so he's completelydependent upon us, me and my
wife, to take care of him.
But you know that relationshipis obviously a trusting
(19:18):
relationship that has to have abaseline.
You know level of hey thatyou're going to do what it takes
to make sure that this person'staken care of.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I think it's an interesting dichotomy between
you know what's legal and what'slike actual yes.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Like that, just sort of highlights one of those
examples.
Yes, yeah, we were, we actually.
I was having a conversationrecently about this and it's
just an example of what you justsaid is not necessarily
relating to trust, but there isa weird I will call it a red
zone around the time that anychild turns 18.
(19:58):
And the reason why is becausesome of the rules about, for
instance, child pornography andother things, change because now
that you are an 18 year old solike as an example, you know two
17 year olds are dating, one ofthem turns 18.
Now, all of a sudden, some typeof consensual behavior between
(20:19):
the two of them is looked atdifferently under the eyes of
the law, because one is now over18 years old.
So there's this weird that'sthe only time that that happens
in your life.
If you're 21 and you're datinga 20 year old, there's no
difference.
If you're a 16, 16 year old andyou're dating a 16 year old,
there's no difference.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
But if you're 18 year old, dating a 17 year old, then
there's a difference under theeyes of the law, right, and
while that hard line is drawn,like each person is very
different, there's people whoare 32 years old, who aren't
mature enough for relationships,right, that's right, you know,
(20:55):
just to sort of hyperboleize thesituation.
So, yeah, it's like it's a verygradient sort of thing where
every relationship is unique anddifferent.
The law has to draw a line and,yeah, that red zone is an
interesting way to put it.
Yeah, it's really one of theonly times that we draw right,
(21:20):
like legally driving or legallydrinking or legally selling
alcohol or all the other youknow stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Well, it's one of the only times that your behavior
is looked at differently, basedon just a number of days you've
been on this earth, so you knowit's your behavior.
Could you be behaving inexactly the same way you behaved
before you turned 18, but nowit's a crime, whereas three days
(21:49):
ago, when you were 17, it wasnot a crime?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
So it's a weird thing and, like I said, this doesn't
have to do with our subjecttoday, but it is an interesting
distinction and what you weremaking.
Sure, you know, not like we'venever gone on a tangent on this
podcast ever before, but and Ifully trust that we can move on
to.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Trust is a verb right , like that's another Right,
yeah.
So what are some verbs of trust?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I think I have the same, a similar one to you
believe in the reliability,truth, ability or strength of.
So the quote they have is Ishould never have trusted her
Right.
So you know they don't have inthere, which is interesting.
(22:41):
Maybe we'll get into this inthis topic.
But like they didn't put faith,they have reliability, truth,
ability and strength of, whichto me is all like sort of
circling around the word havefaith in you know, someone else
or something you know.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
So anyway, Well, when , just to inject something semi
random, because, looking at allthese definitions, right, like
we're different ways of sayingthe same thing, because for
trust is a verb.
I'm seeing seven examples here,before we even get to the more
legal stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
It's all about placing confidence and
reliability in that sort ofthing and it reminds me like
I've got to think, and I'm goingto research this to test my
theory.
But trust has a strongconnection with truth.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And like, I feel like this idea of trust and truth
are very early in our conceptsas humans, developing language
and social connections,relationships, tribes and all
that stuff.
Yeah, and if I remember right,the word truth actually is
something that pulls from theidea of tree, which for a long
(23:58):
time was our center, right Likeeverything was relative to a
center, to the tree, and youknow the place that you came
back to, the base, right Liketree, trust, truth.
They all sort of not just startwith a TR, but it's, it has
(24:18):
something to do with our rootsto make a stupid pun out of it.
Yeah, all right, back to ourdefinitions, while I do some
light research on the side here.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Well, and looking further, when I pulled up the
show more, there are actuallyother definitions that do
mention faith.
One of them is have faith orconfidence.
She trusted in the powers ofjustice, so to have faith or
confidence in something else, Iguess I feel like all of these
are Well, I guess one of thethings that we can sort of like
(24:56):
go down the path of is sort ofdifferent types of trust or
trust different type of trust,and one is sort of the it's not
the shallower level, but thereare different types of
relationships we have in ourlife, so there's different types
of trust in my mind for thosedifferent types of relationships
(25:19):
.
So the trust that you have insomebody who you might interact
with once you know, every oncein a while or a stranger you're
in a.
You know, as an example, likewe were For our vacation, we
were on a road trip, so we weregoing places where we were most
likely never going to see thosepeople ever again, the people
(25:40):
that we were interacting with,the cashiers, the servers at the
restaurants.
You know, most likely we'renever going to see those people
again.
Maybe if we do, it'd be yearsand years from now.
But we don't have, we're notdeveloping a relationship with
that person, but we'reinteracting with them, and even
in those relationships there's acertain level of trust that
(26:02):
goes into it.
And I think it's one of thosetypes of things that we take for
granted a little bit, becauseit's always there and you don't
really even realize it.
You just sort of give itbecause and this is, I guess I
already mentioned earlier thesocial contract, but it's sort
of like that it's like we assumethat in all of these
(26:23):
interactions in our life thatpeople are going to behave in a
certain way and that we're goingto behave in a certain way, and
then as long as everybody sortof keeps that going, then that's
the amount of trust that youneed to have.
It's like, hey, I'm going to,you know.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah, I think there's like a baseline of trust either
, that's, Anyone personallyinteract with within our culture
is going to operate within 80plus percent of the standards of
the culture.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
It's like if you go to McDonald's in Kentucky and
you go to McDonald's in Japan,you trust, you have a trust in
the brand and the organizationof McDonald's to give you
roughly the same level ofservice.
It might be a low bar, but youknow that that bar is going to
be met, give or take a fewinches or whatever standard of
(27:25):
unit you want to metaphoricallyuse.
Well, it's interesting,interesting idea oh go ahead.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
No, go ahead.
I interrupted you.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Well I'm just coming back to.
I did do that light research.
Oh yeah, and the etymology oftrust does go to words that
start with D-E-R-U and D-R, suchand such and various languages
like Nordic, germanic,indo-european.
All of it talk about being firm, solid, with specialized senses
(27:59):
towards wood or tree, oak andeven the shaft of a spear.
It's very much when you thinkabout when an arrow flies, true,
or the kinds of when they puttheir trust in tools and weapons
to give them sources of food,like all of those early days of
(28:21):
language.
those things are all connected.
I think it's interesting,though, that trust is something
that's very abstract forsomething that started out very
concrete or solid, I should say,as wood and tree.
So anyway, there's that.
(28:42):
Well, I think the truce is partof that too.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Sorry, go on.
That makes sense.
Well, I guess I was just thepoint that I was sort of trying
to go down the path of.
Is the that type of, like Isaid, the trust that you need to
give to people on an everydaybasis that you really don't?
And we're not talking aboutpeople who you interact with
(29:08):
everyday Work relationships?
You're significant others,you're extended family Although
extended family sometimes youonly see them at family reunions
and other things like that.
So maybe it is a lower levelthat you need to.
You're like hey I only need totrust this person for a certain
amount of time.
The other thing that I thinkI'll bring up is For small talk.
Right, exactly, trust them forsmall talk, yes, and there are
(29:30):
some people who I see veryrarely that I do not trust for
small talk because I know whatwe're going to talk about and I
don't want to talk about thosesubjects.
And I know that we're going totalk about those subjects
because that's that person'snature.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
So you know, it's like how do you know if
someone's an atheist, vegan oryes, crossfit, or does CrossFit?
Yeah, it's like, don't worry,they'll tell you.
Yeah, don't worry.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Wait a second, they'll tell you.
Or, in my case, how do you knowif somebody does their own
podcast?
It's Not really, I mean, Idon't really go around saying it
all the time, but everyonewants to mention it Anyway.
No, but I feel like there's aconnection here to how much do I
(30:20):
need to rely on this person?
Right, like how much?
And that can be a short-termrelationship like, for instance,
an auto mechanic or somethinglike that.
You're like man, I'm placing aluck Because this person does
something wrong.
It could end in my death.
I mean, say, worst casescenario, right, the wheel falls
off your car and you crash anddie.
(30:41):
Or multiple deaths, yeah, right,so you're placing a lot of
trust that I think a lot ofpeople, at least me, like.
I take that for granted alittle bit.
I think my I just assume, whichI think is different than
that's a good question, I don'tknow.
Do you think that assumingsomething is a level of trust?
Like I assume that my mechanic,when I say fix this, this and
(31:02):
this, that they're gonna, how doI know if they changed my oil?
I don't know that.
I don't open the oil and lookat it and smell it and taste it
and do whatever you know.
So I just assume, if I ask youto change my oil and pay you
$100, that my oil's changedright, right.
So is that the same as trusting?
You're right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah, they wave a little wand over it.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
So I'm gonna hurry potter stuff and my oil has now
changed Vehicle fixium orwhatever.
I don't know what the spellwould be.
Well, it opens for a.
But basically, you know, isthat the same as trust?
I don't know.
I mean, like I said, it's just,it's in my mind because I'm
thinking.
I don't even consider thattrust, I just consider that an
(31:48):
assumption.
But I guess it is trust.
I don't know.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
I like it.
I think that's a solidconnection.
I want to think on more and itdoes create for me, like one of
my favorite phrases.
One of my favorite things to dois challenge assumptions, right
, and I always thought that iskind of a skeptical thing.
(32:15):
But with the kind of connectionyou're making, I realized that
in a way, it is maybe a slightlyhealthy representation of
anxiety, right, or a way toaddress anxiety or a lack of
trust.
Yeah, I think that's a goodquestion.
So, yeah, like I think Idefinitely think there's
something there.
(32:35):
Um, I guess, I guess I'll justsay you're right, yeah, Wow,
that's a bet.
That's right, brian, but he'sthat you're right or he's that I
admitted you're right.
You said anything to add?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I'm kind of like you, kind of pated me to a corner
right.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
It's like I'm just saying I'm talking about trust
and, yeah, if I don't, if Idon't assume you're right, then
I'm not trusting you.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
So, yeah, that's the best name tag ever by the way,
Nick is taking his jacket offand he's got the best name tag
ever on.
Forgot I did that.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Yeah, it's he put Starbucks.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah, it's my Starbucks sticker For those of
you out in the audience.
He took his Starbucks stickeroff of the coffee and put it on
his left chest you know area onhis shirt and it looks like it's
in the name tag goes.
Yeah, but it says like door.
I'm sure it says Dory and itprobably says americano or
whatever you got.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Well, they yeah grande.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Oh they were, they were real sweet cream.
Yeah yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
And you're in grande Well, so like I said, you are
what you drink American grand,grand, grand.
Some people call me trained, youknow but yeah, I get what
(34:03):
you're saying about, likethey're sort of like a baseline
amount of trust that we givepeople, and I think it does fly
in the face of that phrase Idon't know if everyone in the
audience has heard it or not buttrust is earned, not given.
Yeah, it's like, actually, Ithink there is kind of a benefit
(34:23):
of the doubt, you know, that wegive to people.
We at least trust that they'rehuman.
Yeah, at least trust that theyhave some morals.
We just don't know whichparticular flavor of morality
they adhere to, or what whatrules they take as suggestions
and vice versa.
Yeah, you know their uniqueblend of trustworthiness.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, well, I think one of the one of the
connections we can make here toois you've already sort of
touched on a little bit and wehave just in our conversation
back and forth If we can callthis conversation or banter
whatever the fact that there arecertain people who have
different attitudes about youknow, some people approach
(35:08):
things as, hey, I'm going to nottrust anything until I'm given
a reason to trust it.
And there are other people whoand I, find myself on the other
end of the spectrum.
I think I trust actually alittle bit too much.
I think I'm slightly.
I could probably be conned, Icould probably be.
You know, I'm slightly gulliblein that, because I'm very
trusting of people and and youknow, who knows, I may have been
(35:31):
taken advantage of a few timesin my life because of that.
So I think that's interestingand making it, you know, as we
always do, trying to make tiesto subjects we've previously
talked about, I think that tiesinto personality types.
You know me being a nine andbeing a peacekeeper, is you?
know, I'm going to.
I'm going to assume that otherpeople are coming at the world
(35:53):
the same way, like yourworldview is, hey, I assume that
most people are like me, and soI'm going to go ahead and
that's how I'm going to approacheverything else.
Unfortunately, not everyone's anine, some people are eights
and they're hey, I want to win,if I want to win, and I want to
make you lose, right and so so,like I said, and your, your
(36:16):
personality type is muchdifferent in the way and the way
that you you know you approachthings is much more questioning,
and I know when I first, I meanas a reminder I am, I am also a
peacemaker, but sure.
I also have strong, stronganalytical or investigator type,
exactly, and we can go back tostrengths, strengths finders to
(36:38):
see that because I'm morepersonal, I'm a more personality
.
Three out of my five ispersonality, but yours are all
analytical.
You know behind the scenes kindof or not all but most are not
personality based, and so that'sthe difference between us in
terms of the nines that we are,but it always it gets me.
I'm it when I first startedeven just doing like when I met
(37:02):
you and when I first starteddoing this podcast with you.
It always gets me.
When it's like, I'm always likewhy are you questioning this?
Why, why?
Why do you keep askingquestions?
Why don't you just like trustthis?
You know?
Why don't you just like trustwhat I'm saying, like, and you
can to me?
I felt like very distrusting ofme, but that was my own thing
of like taking somethingpersonally, you know.
But the thing is it can feellike that, I'm sure.
(37:24):
I'm sure I don't know.
You tell me, do you think peopleat your work are always like
dude?
Why is Nick always have to like?
Why do you always have to likeask questions about stuff?
Why don't you just like be likeyeah, let's go with that, you
know, and you're like well,let's talk, even if and it's
like with you, it's even if yousomething, you're all.
Yeah, I totally agree with that100%, but let's ask 50
questions about it first beforewe go forward with it, you know
(37:45):
so, yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
I mean, yeah, people don't like being asked why.
Because it has put them on thedefense right.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
And it's.
I don't know.
There's different attitudes youcan have when you're
questioning.
There could be, like that,skepticism of the person or
skepticism of the impression,the way the evidence was
gathered or the conclusionsdrawn from the evidence.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
But it's also just like there's a curiosity to.
It's like hey, I'm, that's areally compelling conclusion.
How did you get there?
Like maybe I could developcompelling conclusions of my own
from with different materialaltogether right, like I could
just be interested in thethought process in general.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Well, and that's what I'll follow it up with is, like
you know, even though my firstimpression was that for a while,
I've come to learn that it's tome.
Now I view it as more of youwanting to be completely
thorough in analyzing reallyanything, and it doesn't matter
whether it's the coffee you'reordering or whether it's the
program that you're putting inplace for your work, or whether
(38:51):
it's something with Toastmastersor whether anything else.
It's like.
You just want to make sure thatthe questions get asked, and
many times people don't ask thequestion, so it's a valuable
resource to have that.
You're like hey, let's justkick the tires.
I mean, I'm not sayinganything's wrong with it, but
let me kick the tires, let'sjust make sure, let's verify.
Well, let's just make sure we'reall seeing the same thing here,
(39:12):
Like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yeah, and honestly, brian, I used to be a very
trusting person until one day Iwent to a Chinese buffet and I
didn't check the health scoreuntil after I had five plates.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah, and that made me just that.
That was the beginning, thatwas the trigger point for my
downward spiral into questioningeverything I had about as many
unpleasant bowel movements as Ihad plates, and I learned
valuable lessons in trusting butverifying, and maybe verifying
before trusting right.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Because, like hey, is the health food score 76?
Maybe don't eat there or haveone plate and yeah, eat a lot of
good food.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
At least know what you're getting into.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Exactly and then what you're going to be doing
afterwards, right, you can carveout the time in your schedule
If it's right to you, that would.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Well, I just, like I said, I feel like I feel like
there's a point to be made in inthose, the levels of trust that
we're talking about.
Like I said, not the longerterm relationships we have in
our life or the people weinteract with all the time.
But you know, there's thatsocial contract and another
concept that we have talkedabout in the past on this
(40:34):
podcast that we, as I said toyou before, we were recording
like we didn't know that thesewere called this, but I've been
reading a lot of things aboutintrusive thoughts.
So, you know thoughts of, hey,what if I just?
You know it's usually negative.
It's like, you know, you'rewalking by somebody that's
looking off the edge of a cliffand you're like, hey, if I just
(40:56):
pushed that person, they wouldfall to their death.
You know that kind of thought.
It's an intrusive thought.
That's really not something tobe acted upon, unless you have
some other kind of mentalproblem, right.
But the normal person has thosethoughts and then goes, yeah,
that's stupid, why would youthat?
No, you don't kill other people, you don't push people off
cliffs, right?
(41:17):
But that's the kind of trustthat we're talking about here,
and I know it's extreme.
It's extreme what we're talkingabout, but there's so many
interactions we have every daythat could result in our death.
This man this sounds like I'm,that sounds like I'm just
turning into like the totalnegative.
Yeah you're not showing Like wecould die every day, every time
(41:41):
you wake up out of bed, youcould die.
You get out of bed, you coulddie.
You take a shower, you coulddie.
Like I don't know why I'm inthis kind of death mood, anyway,
no, but my I guess my boy'sspiral Exactly so.
No, but like this is the kind oftrust we're talking about, of
(42:02):
your, that I think again, I feellike we take this for granted
is when you're driving down thestreet it's a two lane street
and all that's separating youfrom the oncoming traffic is a
yellow line we're trusting thatthat person is not falling
asleep, is not inebriated, isalso not just going to jerk the
wheel and run into the front ofour car.
And and that's a that's aninteresting concept to me it's
(42:27):
the.
It's a lot of trust to give,like when you at first, when I
thought about it, I thought well, these are short term.
When you have a short terminteraction with someone, the
level of trust is very low.
But when you start to thinkabout it, the way that I'm
thinking about it, all of asudden now you're like well,
actually I'm trust.
This is all.
That's a lot of trust to giveto other people that I have.
(42:49):
No, I don't know what theirname is, I don't know where they
live, I don't know what theircircumstances are.
I don't know anything aboutthis person and I'm just giving
the level of trust that, hey,just don't do this so that you
don't injure, maim or kill me.
So I thought it was justinteresting, because it was Like
I said, the interactions.
You would just automaticallythink it's a low level of trust,
(43:10):
but to me it can actually be ahigher level of trust.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
We trust that people have similar survival instincts
as we do.
They have just as much interestin staying on their side of the
road as we do.
It's just that very smallpercentage of population who are
unhinged or highly depressiveor depressed or whatever.
I think the other thing Iwanted to bring up in this
(43:39):
conversation is the marshmallowtest.
Oh yeah, for those in theaudience who may have heard of
it, you might be thinking why amI bringing up delayed
gratification in ourconversation with trust, if
you're not familiar with themarshmallow test?
Very briefly, it was just anexperiment, a social experiment
(44:01):
done in the 1960s, popularizedin the 90s, where kids were put
in a room.
A proctor or a scientist,somebody in a lab coat, said hey
, here's a marshmallow on aplate.
You can eat it now, but I'mgoing to go away and come back
If the marshmallow is stillthere.
When I come back in about 15minutes, I'll give you a second
(44:26):
marshmallow and you can eat bothof them.
Then they just watched the kidfor those 15 minutes before the
person came back.
There were kids who did andthere were kids who didn't.
It was all this interesting toeverybody about what tactics
they used to imagine that themarshmallow wasn't real, or turn
(44:48):
away or whatever to delaygratification.
Then they followed those kids15 years later, 25 years later,
and compared them against thecontrol group.
Lo and behold, those who waitedfor the second marshmallow were
more likely to graduate college, more likely to make more money
, more likely to have long-termrelationships that last and were
(45:12):
happy, so on and so forth.
The whole lesson, the wholetakeaway was hey, those who
learned delayed gratificationearly win over the long period.
It's a great story.
Except the experiment hasn'tbeen proven out in repeatable
experiments.
What they've since learned isthat what it really tests is
(45:37):
whether how much the childtrusts adults, trusts strangers,
kids.
What they found is that kidswho grew up in impoverished
homes or youths of homes aremuch less likely to trust the
experiment person who says I'llbe back in about 15 minutes.
(45:57):
And not surprisingly, kids whogrew up in those sorts of
environments have feweradvantages, have fewer
opportunities to take advantageof, and so fewer roles at the
dice mean fewer chances forsuccess and therefore less
likely to go to college, lesslikely to have great careers and
(46:22):
less likely to have long-termrelationships.
And I list those three thingsseparately.
I'm a firm believer that onedoes not need college to have a
fulfilling career I'm myself andproof and one does not.
Yeah, all that stuff.
There are three distinct thingsthat hopefully correlate in
each person's life, and sothat's.
(46:44):
The thing, though, is that whenour daily experience and daily
interaction with people whetherit's authority figures or
friends or family, or all theabove prove that people are
generally untrustworthy, thatbleeds out into faith in society
(47:05):
, faith in the system or lackthereof, and that betrayal of
trust, I don't know getsreinforced right.
There's the confirmation bias,too.
That makes that a downwardspiral, or an upward spiral,
(47:25):
depending on the situation.
So, yeah, I just I don't know.
I think that's a valuableconsideration and takeaway from
the Marshmallow Test.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Though the Marshmallow Test doesn't prove
the benefits of delayedgratification, I do still
believe in the benefits ofdelayed gratification Sure.
I just want to make sure thatthe tests match the conclusions
you know.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
So yeah, rant over.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah, no, that's your chance.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Brian.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
No, I was just going to say I just comment on it.
It's interesting that I meanit's logical, which I say that
in a certain way because youknow a lot of things that are
logical doesn't necessarily meanthey're right.
It's just how we talk aboutconfirmation bias you already
mentioned, like there's a lot ofpeople who go by logic and
you're like no logic doesn'tnecessarily track here in the
sciences it's.
(48:18):
It's what can we prove?
What's been proven?
What's the science say Right,even the, even the soft sciences
, the social sciences.
You know, there there areexperiments just like that.
One is a social scienceexperiment and but I think that
it's interesting that you know.
So one of the things that I thatgoes through my mind is that is
(48:39):
is the assumptions that aremade by the kid, that not
necessarily made consciously,but the assumptions that are
made by the kid that is in thatexperiment is that the system
works completely the way thatit's supposed to work.
So when somebody says to you,don't eat this marshmallow,
you're going to get twomarshmallows, your brain has to
(49:02):
say, okay, I and I'm going todrop the bomb of this word I'm
going to trust that that's goingto happen, that when that
person in the white lab coatcomes back in I'm actually going
to get two.
And if that works, then in yourhead you say, well, yeah, it is
delayed gratification, it iseverything else.
But in what?
(49:22):
If your head says, yeah, butthat person could also come back
in the room and say you knowwhat things have changed while I
was out of the room?
Actually, you're not going toget the marshmallow that you had
before and you're going to getno marshmallows.
So if you have that in yourbrain, you know, or your brain
subconsciously maybe, even leapsto that conclusion, then having
the one marshmallow now is thebetter option.
(49:44):
If there's a potential that youwill get zero marshmallows at
least, then you get one right,and so I feel like that's a.
It's something that again goesback to the personality type or
the experiences that thatperson's had.
I know that some of thearticles that I read about basic
levels of trust are they talkeda lot about behaviors.
(50:05):
So you doing behaviors thatmake you trustworthy, but also
other people behaving in a waythat allows you to understand
that they are trustworthy, andin that case you've got children
who are trying to learn how theworld works, and their only way
to learn how the world works istheir experiences of it.
And if their experiences of itare, hey, you might get dinner,
you might not, then that'sthat's what they're going to
(50:30):
filter everything throughwhether that's known to them at
the time.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
How hungry how hungry was the kid when he walked into
the experiment, you know likedo you have breakfast or not?
Like you, bet, he's going toeat that marshmallow now.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
That's right, that's right.
Or she, you know, or even Imean even go the other direction
is like a kid that believesthat he'll get two marshmallows
but doesn't like marshmallows.
So then you're like you know,like you know what, I'll delay
the gratification to two, but Idon't really even want the one,
you know so.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
Like I guess I'll eat it now so I don't have to eat
two.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Right, exactly, yeah, I was like no, I already ate it
, you don't need to give meanother one.
I'm fine, I'm good.
Thank you.
Do you have any apples backthere?
I'll take an apple, it'shilarious.
Yeah Well, so so the only otherthing I'll say in this, like in
this sort of you know section ofthe you know our episodes that
we're doing, of you know talkingabout sort of more
(51:28):
individualized or smaller levelrelationships, is the
correlation between self-esteem,which I this is something that
was a surprise to me is acorrelation of self-esteem and
trust, and people with higherself-esteem versus lower
self-esteem, and whether or notthey were more likely to trust
or distrust people, and I'malways into this.
(51:49):
This is a big episode.
If you have the bingo card,you've already won, because I've
dropped like every possiblething out there.
So the you know the NathanielBrandon book, which is the one
that I always go back to.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
The.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Deficient of Self-Esteem.
Right, and I pulled it up theexperience of being competent to
cope with the basic challengesof life and being worthy of self
or, excuse me, being worthy ofhappiness, so that the
experience of being competent tocope with the basic challenges
of life is trust in yourself,like I trust that I have the
(52:25):
resources and the brain powerand the everything else to deal
with the basic challenges that Iwill incur throughout my
lifetime.
And so do you trust that?
Do you trust yourself?
Do you trust that you've beengiven the tools to deal with the
things that come up in life,the things that everyone's going
to, everyone's going toexperience in life at some point
(52:48):
?
You know, and the really thecorrelation that they've come up
with, is that people with lowerself-esteem are less likely to
trust others.
And this is me just trying toconnect the dots is, if you
don't trust yourself, then howare you going to trust others?
Right?
(53:09):
So, again going back to the.
If you don't feel like you're,you feel like the rest of the
world is acting the way that youact, or has the same, is
looking at the world through thesame glasses.
You're looking through theworld at in with.
So I just feel like that's a Idon't know.
I feel like it's an interesting, interesting thing about
(53:33):
self-trust versus trustingothers.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
It's a bit of that projection game, right, like if
I'm trustworthy, I kind ofassume other people are
trustworthy too, if I can counton myself now.
I'm a person.
Hey, you're a person, I canprobably count on you too.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
I think there's almost like this reverse
projection that can go on too.
I feel like I have thisintuition that if someone
doesn't find me trustworthy, Ialso don't trust them as much,
because you can't con a conartist, you can't fake a faker.
If they're probably projecting.
(54:10):
If they themselves aren'ttrustworthy, they probably don't
trust other people, right?
I'm looking at them and readingtheir own projection.
If they can't trust others,they're probably operating from
the assumption that hey, I'm nottrustworthy, so I don't trust
people.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
There's got to be a bias.
That's regard to that.
I don't know if we covered itor not, but I feel like the
natural tendency for most peopleis to assume other people.
So again, you can't con a conartist.
If you're somebody who conspeople, you're going to assume
everyone in the world is tryingto con you, right?
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Right, everybody's got a gimmick or a game, right,
what's your angle?
What's their angle?
Angle, that's it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
Yeah, so you're basically your trust levels are
really low because you aretrying to find people that have
high levels of trust so that youcan con them, right, and you're
trying to develop that trust,but you also have a guard up
because you're saying, yeah,this is not how the world works.
(55:17):
If you will, well, and so, yeah, the only other thing that we
haven't mentioned and I think Imeant to mention it back when we
were talking about we wereearlier in this episode, I can't
remember what we were talkingabout but is and this is again
another name drop but StevenCovey, as I name drop in every
(55:37):
episode, talks about theemotional bank account.
Right, and that's in essence inhaving trusting relationships
is, every time you do something,you do a behavior that makes
you trustworthy or that makesthe other person trust you more,
you're making a small depositinto this emotional bank account
right.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
I think let's go in deep on that in the next episode
, okay, but I do think it playsinto sort of like whenever you
meet a total random person, it'salmost like they start with a
standard balance of thatemotional bank account.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Maybe if I'm not a trusting person, then the total
stranger starts with a negativebalance.
Speaker 2 (56:18):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (56:19):
They start in debt Like they've got to.
They got to prove they'retrustworthy.
Yeah, Things assumed there.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (56:25):
Or more, like most people, people start with the
base level of trust.
If they've got a barista apronon, I trust you start with a
base balance of difficultbarista, you know, or a base
balance of decent person.
So yeah, but I think when wetalk about personal
relationships there's a lot moredepth to that emotional bank
(56:47):
concept.
Speaker 2 (56:49):
Yeah.
And I think that was the onlyand that was really the only
thing I wanted to mention isthat that you're a person,
you're more on the individuallevel, your personality, in
those smaller relationships ortheir smaller interactions,
plays into.
Where does that and my like asan example, mine I'm, I think,
too trusting.
So I think most people for mestart with a positive you know,
(57:11):
a positive level of trust, andthat's probably too trusting for
strangers because I have theability to.
You know, potentially somebodycould use that assumption or use
that thing that I'm making thattrust balance or that emotional
bank balance in order to takeadvantage of me, whereas
somebody who starts as a skeptic, in a negative or a zero
(57:33):
balance, like, hey, you got toearn my trust.
That they're, you know they'regonna, they're protecting
themselves a little bit more,they're not going to be hurt as
much or potentially swindled.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
So yeah, and I think that goes back to their opening
quote right, the best way tofind out if you can trust
somebody is to trust them.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
Dude, that is crazy.
We did full circle in exactlyan hour right back to the, the
opening quote.
We've never done that.
That's amazing.
Oh, hashtag, pro, pro for life,all right.
Well, so yeah, in the nextepisode I think we'll talk about
some, some of the other othertypes of relationships,
(58:12):
different levels of trust andmore about the emotional bank
account and other things likethat.
But, all right, I think that'sthe best closing we can do next
time.
Agreed, all right, I trust youBrian.
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