March 13, 2024 • 36 mins
Unlock the full potential of your body with the guidance of Rob from Vero Strength and Conditioning, who joins us to shed light on the untapped benefits of strength training for everyone. Feel the power of fitness evolution as we break down why strength training trumps cardio, especially as we age. Discover the key movement patterns that are the bedrock of an effective workout, and learn how to tailor them to your fitness journey. Say goodbye to the myth that a good workout is all sweat and exhaustion; it's time to embrace the real markers of progress and strength.
Prepare to reevaluate everything you thought you knew about fat loss as we confront the common mix-up between using barbells and actual strength training. With Rob's expertise, we dissect the importance of moving with purpose and how mastering the basics can amplify your strength gains and catapult your fat loss results. This chat is a must for those ready to challenge the status quo with a smarter, more sustainable approach to health and fitness by marrying strength training with just the right dose of conditioning.
As we wrap up this enlightening conversation, Rob leaves us with golden nuggets on how to keep your workout routine fresh and effective. Understand why sticking with a training phase for the sweet spot of four to eight weeks can prevent plateaus and spark continuous improvement. We explore the significance of incorporating strength and power training into your regimen, the vital role of rest for maintaining excellence in performance, and the practical benefits of strength in everyday life. Tune in to transform not just how you look, but how you live and move every single day.
Check out Coach Rob at Vero Strength and Conditioning
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Alec (00:03):
So today we got Rob from Vero Strength and
Conditioning again.
He's going to talk all thingsstrength.
How are you?
Rob (00:08):
I'm doing well, this is our second time actually doing
this.
Yeah, second podcast we'regoing to dive a little deeper
into our subject here.
Dr Alec (00:18):
Correct, cool.
So, rob, why strength trainingfor the general population?
Rob (00:24):
In my belief, in our belief, strength training is the
number one, and not that we'resaying conditioning is not
important, but strength trainingis number one.
Strength training is the basefor all athletic endeavors and
it's the base for just abouteverything you have to do in
life.
Now there's different elements.
When you talk about strengthtraining, people start looking
(00:45):
and it's like, oh my God,strength training.
I'm not talking about the highlevel power lifters, I'm just
talking about strength trainingfor general population on there
and that's the most important onthere.
And I think now it's almostlike irrefutable from the
information that's coming outfrom all the research, how
important it is for everybody,including older adults, to do.
Dr Alec (01:06):
So how does that look different?
Right, you mentioned a powerlifter, a general pop.
How did they look?
Similar Is the base is similar.
Rob (01:13):
So there's principles you take from sports, or because
power lifting is a sport, orfrom certain disciplines that
can work for everybody, but theydon't do the exact same
training what they do.
Now they might do similarmovements too, but it's more
movement patterns than anythingelse.
(01:34):
When I talk about strengthtraining, there's six
fundamental patterns that wereally follow, like most
strength condition coachesbelieve in.
One of them is the squat youneed to be able to sit down and
stand up.
I think that's pretty commonlyknown.
The other one is a hinge, whichis close to a deadlift position
type of deal.
And then one's a lunge you needto be able to go backwards or
(01:57):
forward and go to a kneebasically almost sit around and
get up kind of deal.
The other one is a press, soyou need to be able to press
vertically and horizontally, orsome version close to it Sure.
The other one is a pullvertically and horizontally to
be able to pull yourself ontothings or move around, and then
a carry you need to carrysomething.
So those six fundamentalmovements, those patterns should
(02:20):
constantly be worked and peopleget better at that movement
quality with those and strongerat it, and that makes life in
general easier with that.
Dr Alec (02:29):
So we have someone comes in right and they check
all these boxes and they'reready to go.
What would a strength routinelook like for them at a basic
level?
Rob (02:39):
So at a basic, so we can regress down all the way, which,
like you, can get real complexwith as far as the movements
you're using, but the patternsare still the same.
So, like a lot of times, whatwe do and you kind of want to do
is you want to work two tothree of those movement patterns
and it's almost like full bodyA lot of times in a workout.
(03:01):
And so you would look like I'mdoing a squat and then I'm doing
a vertical push and ahorizontal pull, and then what
you would do is you would set itup, and now there's several
ways to kind of do it.
But you would set it up andwould say the squat would be
squatting to a bench or gobletsquat or whatever.
So I'm doing five reps of thoseand then I'm doing seven
(03:22):
presses and then nine pulls.
What rest in between?
And I think that's where therest and the way the workouts
are set up is where people kindof like wave on.
They don't.
They don't understand it asmuch, because specific strength
training for true strength,looks a certain way and it's got
(03:42):
rest built in and it's donewith certain intent, and that's
where a lot of people kind ofget lost in the weeds with it in
there, and I see them.
What they're actually doingisn't strength training.
Now, they're doing the samemovements, but the intent and
the way it's laid out is notstrength training.
Dr Alec (04:02):
I think right, we, I'm going to say if we come from a
cross-fit background, functionalfitness may be.
Depending on what's going onwith that.
You're chasing this feeling ofI'm sweaty, out of breath on the
ground and we're equating thatto I'm getting stronger too.
But true strength training, youusually don't feel like that.
If you're chasing the rightthing, do you see that as a
(04:25):
common issue?
Rob (04:26):
Yes, you do so like cross-fits like it's own animal
movement.
I'll like address that onefirst and then go into like what
I see with the franchises andboot camps, because they're like
kind of a different animal onthere With cross-fit.
They, they, it depends, butthey, they tend to use the big
compound movement so it canequate, you can think, and it
could go way to strength, but itreally doesn't.
(04:48):
Once the heart rates highenough and they're kind of doing
too many reps and start movingthrough it on her, but it it
very mimics and looks reallyclose to it.
A lot of people think andcross-fits like number one
probably on that list that agood workout is how tired, how
sweaty and then how sore theyare the next day and none of
(05:09):
those are good indications of agood workout at all.
On there Now, if you're in ahot place and you're doing
proper strength training, yeah,you're gonna sweat, but there's
times where it is it does notfeel like that.
And one thing cause it's closeto the cardio is when you're
doing like I understand cardio,I really like conditioning,
(05:29):
conditioning work, not so muchcardio, but is you have this
really feeling is like almostlike that run or high?
You really have like a bigaccomplishment when you get done
with that and people look forthat.
And sometimes in strengthtraining you don't have that
exact feeling.
What you do on a strengthtraining is you have more.
Instead of this euphoric high,it's more of this like feeling
powerful and strong and you feellike you accomplished and moved
(05:52):
something.
So that's like a wholedifferent mindset to get into
and I like them both on there.
But most people chase the highand they think that's doing what
the strength training is doingover there.
And then this to kind of likejust jump into and touch, like
the franchises and boot campsand stuff that we see Like a lot
(06:13):
of times you see them do thesame movements but then tend in
the way they're laid out and so,for instance, what I just told
you, a classic strength trainingwould be legs push, pull.
So we're doing a squat, thenwe're doing a pull-up and then
we're doing a bench press andthen any version of push-up,
whatever lat, pull down.
So on there, any version of asquat five sets of five reps
(06:35):
with two minutes rest, a minimumin between, on there and then
you go up in a decent load andyou move through it.
That's like a 30 or 40 minuteworkout.
If your movement pattern isgood enough and you're strong
enough, that's like about allyou need on there.
But let's say I take those samemovements.
So now we're doing some airsquat or whatever goblet squat
and then we're gonna go do somea band to pull up or some kind
(06:59):
of TRX row and then we're doingsome push-up on our knee and we
turn that into a 30 minutemoving around, like now, that's
not strength training.
It's still same movementpatterns, but it's no longer
strength training.
It gets closer to a signal ofcardio and when you're doing
stuff you're looking for signalsthat are more adaptations.
So what are you getting out ofit?
So a lot of times people aredoing and they think well, we're
(07:23):
doing this moves and we'redoing a strength training, but
the signal they're getting isgonna be closer to cardio and
that's the adaptations they'regonna get.
It's not.
You're not gonna get stronger,especially when you're
deconditioned.
Everyone gets stronger, nomatter what you do.
But once you start doing thingsfor a while, you don't get
stronger.
You end up getting a littlemore of the adaptation of cardio
, your movement's patterns,unless you really focus on them,
(07:43):
which most people don't.
When you're under fatigue andyou're doing a lot of them, then
you end up building up thesebad movement patterns on there
too also.
And then like we're cardio.
Even though it seems to be thatyou're looking for the calorie
burn, after a while you getefficient at cardio, it's not as
much as a calorie burn.
There's only a few ways toincrease your caloric like
(08:08):
expenditure.
One of them is sending a signalof strength training and the
other one is when you starteating more food.
It sends a signal.
Those are the only waysEverything else can kind of like
.
Cardio can enhance if it's doneproperly with it, but most of
the time what it's doing istaking away from that.
Dr Alec (08:25):
On there.
I mean a huge part of it, andI'll even say from a diabetes
standpoint.
If we're talking about generalpop, muscle mass is a huge sink
of energy.
And what builds muscle mass?
Strength training Correct.
Rob (08:38):
Yes, correct, and I mean conditioning is great for heart
and along.
But what you're trying to do,especially in modern times too,
and I hear this all over is thatyou're trying to make yourself
burn a lot of calories just byliving and so you want it's like
making you inefficient at thecalorie, so your body's very
(09:01):
inefficient at doingconditioning, so when it goes to
do it it burns a lot ofcalories.
Or when you go to move, youburn a lot of calories.
So that's kind of like whatyou're always going for and the
strength training can reallyhelp with that On there.
Like I always kind of like tryto push and explain to people,
like what it specifically lookslike, and that will get you
(09:22):
closer to where you want to gofor your goals.
Because I think the popularityof the franchises are all cool
and everything On there and theyhave their places is if people
really realized what they wereactually doing and the signal
it's sending, they might not doit as much.
Like I'm all up, someone comesto me and they're like a big
(09:44):
runner and they love running andit's like very euphoric and
meditating to them.
I don't have a problem with it,but a lot of people are running
or whatever exercise they'redoing, is they're doing it for a
reason.
I'm trying to lose weight.
I'm trying to do this.
If I told you or showed youfrom a device that is actually
not doing what you think it'sdoing and then showed you what
(10:07):
would with the device, and itwould just be clear you might
not do it as much, so it's likeit's the intent.
And then it's like what are youdoing it for?
What are your reasons?
On there, that has a lot to do.
If you're doing, if you'rerunning or you're there to be
the best boot camper that candance around them, then how
about it?
Dr Alec (10:27):
Yeah, your goals are different, Correct?
I think a huge component, atleast from what I've seen from
Jim's is is that if there's abarbell in the workout, they
think it's strength Just becausethere's a barbell on there.
And I'm going to make a reallyoverblown thing.
But if someone can overhead,squat 400 pounds and they have a
95 pound barbell in their hands, that's essentially if they're
(10:50):
doing high reps, that's a cardioworkout, Correct.
They're not getting thestrength adaptation from that of
anything.
They're kind of de-hyteningtheir nervous system so they can
track the little faster andbreathe through that.
They're not creating thetension needed.
Rob (11:01):
Yeah, and you're touching on a subject which I have to
like explain to people all thetime, and especially like when
you're newer one is you got tofocus on the movement quality
because you got to put yourselfin the optimal environment that
can focus on that movementquality and you can focus on
being stronger, and that's likepracticing the movement, having
a rest between really focusingon it.
That gets you to a point becausewhat happens is and I have to
(11:24):
go over this all the time is inthe beginning, when you're not
that strong and your movementquality is not that good, it
feels like you're not doing much.
If I wouldn't set you up andit's really light and you're
barely squatting to the bench,but really light kettlebells, a
gala squat, and you're justpulling on a TRX and we're on
our knees with push-ups orwhatever we're doing, and then
(11:47):
we're wrestling, you will feellike you're not doing that much,
but you have to go through thatpoint in order to get to the
strength point we're looking for.
Because now let me go and turnthat out the same movement
patterns, but now we'resquatting in the threes for five
reps or women in whatever likean adequate weight, and then
(12:08):
we're going ahead and we'redoing a heavy dumbbell rows and
then now we're bench pressing ordumbbell pressing or doing
push-ups.
Really good, that uses a lot ofenergy.
That individual, that is thatstrong, that does that when he
goes and does on an air bike orhe runs or he does whatever
piece of cardio he does, he'sgonna expend a lot more energy.
(12:28):
So the strength training canmake that cardio much more
effective, especially for fatburning.
If that's what you're lookingfor, and most people nowadays
are looking to lose some weighta lot of times.
Dr Alec (12:40):
And then just overall, just volume on your body right,
like you can do it way longer,like the pounding it takes.
And running I have nothingagainst running, you wanna run,
run, but that's gonna beat youup if you're going for the goal
of fat loss, whereas maybe ittakes you just a few more months
to start to see progress.
But you'll be able to do itlonger keep it long term.
Rob (12:59):
Yeah, we see like when in programming you'll see a lot of
times, coaches that don'tunderstand strength training A
lot, and there's times for, likestrength endurance is called,
but there's a lot of repsprogrammed and so you look at
the end of the workout andyou're like, oh man, they did
like 85 squatting and a hundredpushups to the knees and that's
(13:20):
wear and tear and that's gottabe paid attention to.
And yeah, in there, comparativeto like hey, they did 25 really
good movements of strength andthe third, I tend to find like
anything past 50 movements, likemost people are gonna break
down and it's gonna be veryfatiguing.
Dr Alec (13:37):
I think it's a badge of honor for people.
You see, I did 150 reps andlike there's no way I didn't get
better.
Rob (13:42):
There's a lot of way, you didn't get better with that,
yeah, I see like a lot ofbreakdown once it gets past a
certain amount of reps.
Now, like some movements aredifferent, like jumping rope or
whatever you can get past alittle bit, but movement starts
breaking down and then it startsbecoming ineffective.
Like I see a lot of peopletaking an approach.
It's like they're looking, theyhave a lot of output but not
(14:07):
very effective.
You know, and you're putting somuch time in this stuff and
like a lot of times there's wishI could just kind of convince
them like hey, just play overhere for a little while and then
you'll see on there.
Dr Alec (14:17):
What have you found is best to try to convince I'm
gonna say general population,people that have more weight
loss and health and fitnessgoals, that this is the route
you wanna go to achieve these,versus the lie on the floor?
Rob (14:30):
kind of get up and work out.
You know it's tough I mean Ideal with it almost every day
kind of deal and it's like yougot to cross them over.
But basically is informationand knowledge and this repeated
over and over and you're notgonna get to everyone because it
just doesn't make a lot ofsense to get more out of doing
(14:50):
less a lot of times.
But the more times you can kindof reinforce that information,
the more it'll see, and alsoit's they'll see what you're
doing and then what your clienttells and how they look, and
then it'll be like okay, I'mdoing this over here for 45
minutes or an hour.
These people come over here andthey do a quarter of the work
but yet they look good butthey're all strong.
(15:11):
So that's like that's some ofthe way that we try to convince
people.
Dr Alec (15:16):
I'm gonna be from a lazy perspective.
If I could do a quarter of thework and get the same results,
why wouldn't I?
I also view it as then I havemore time to do something else,
or work on another piece of whatI wanna work on Correct, and
then I can do what I want tohave.
Rob (15:30):
Yeah, like I and you've heard me say this before there's
a big difference in peopleinstead of the most tolerable
dose, so they're doing as muchas they can tolerate Most people
do, in which that gets realclose to leading to overtraining
or you can get to overuseissues, but the most optimal so
(15:52):
much less than they realize onthere, cause you're putting
yourself in your body in theoptimal position for it to go
ahead and get these adaptationsMost horrible.
There's only a little bit thatyou're gonna get and a lot of
times it just leads to like wayoveruse issues on there.
That's a big difference, andconvincing people that is hard,
cause they always will feel likethey're doing so much less.
Dr Alec (16:13):
I think maybe it's comes back to a sensation thing.
Yeah, because you don'tnecessarily feel it in the
moment.
The same way, you would pull ona row, or as fast as you can,
for 400.
Rob (16:23):
Correct, die on the floor after and you're 100% right,
because everybody can go reallyhard and get their selves out of
breath.
But not everybody is strongenough and moves well enough to
be able to move loads that seemvery effective.
But are you get a strong personand they do a strength workout,
they'll never tell you thatthey felt like they didn't do
(16:45):
anything.
Dr Alec (16:45):
You get off a heavy squat and you do it right.
Rob (16:47):
It's a full body movement.
Dr Alec (16:49):
You gotta sit there for three minutes after to do
your next set.
Rob (16:52):
Yeah, I mean, if you do a good strength training and now
conditioning or cardio will burnmore calories.
There's no like arguing aboutit.
But it's not as much differentas people think.
And if you've been doing thattype of conditioning for a long
period of time and you're prettyadapted to it and good to it,
it might even be less than thestrength training.
Dr Alec (17:12):
I mean, even I don't want to venture off into
conditioning, that's a differentsubject, but even something as
simple as research is kind ofalways.
Kind of it's always been up anddown on high intensity circuit,
low volume and I think, or Lowintensity, long volume, whatever
low steady-state cardio right,yeah, and it's all back and
forth.
Rob (17:32):
That's big now, basically regresses to the mean right
where it's.
Dr Alec (17:36):
It's still conditioning Yep and it's not
strength correct.
Rob (17:40):
They're different, correct the correct and like what
you're saying with the cardio.
But human nature is, wheneversomething comes out and it looks
more effective, a Little bit isgood, so a lot is better.
Yes, so we always got to watchout for that.
That's the biggest thing onthere.
And just I mean I could makethe same argument strange when
(18:00):
you're like Some is good, but ifyou went to these extremes and
like powerlifting or you becamea like a high-level Olympic,
like you're gonna have theissues with that, or a
high-level cross, for that hasto have a lot of like high-level
bodybuilders.
We all know like they're notthe healthiest and stuff.
So that that's a.
That's a different, that's adifferent story on a different
(18:20):
ballgame on there.
But like appropriate doses onthere and that's it.
It's just being appropriatethree days a week, string
training for it.
You know, have my little bit ofconditioning in day or two week
with that, but it's just humannature.
Dr Alec (18:36):
Yeah, you want it.
You know it works a little bit,so you want more of it.
Rob (18:40):
More of it, it's gonna maximize and it's not how the
human body always well when thehit came out, when that resource
came out I remember whenbecause I was I was younger on
there and just like like, justdiving in with like some
coaching and it looked prettygood.
They were mostly short-termResearch, looked much more
effective and so everyone jumpedon it.
And then they jumped on it somuch that it would that's all
(19:02):
they did and they stopped doingthe longer, slower and it's even
as good as resistance trainingbecause it's really close to it,
the way it works the systemAnerobically and everything.
But then you get long-termresearch.
You're like you don't want todo that every day and that's a
mistake and and a good blend ofeverything is actually pretty
good On there.
But I'm always the big thingwith strength training is it's
(19:23):
like a dial.
You got to send the biggestsignal one way than the other,
or else that's the big signalYou're getting for adaptation.
So if you're doing strengthtraining three days a week and
conditioning to, you're prettygood.
You're doing conditioning twodays a week and strength
training two days a week, you'repretty, you're in the, you're
in the middle.
Now you're doing strengthtraining and you're conditioning
(19:46):
, you're most likely just way onthe side, sure, and it's not
strength training at all.
Dr Alec (19:51):
If your goal is to improve conditioning, that might
be what you're going for acorrect.
It's not what most people are.
Yes, at least not that whataligns with your goals.
Rob (19:59):
Yeah, and it is, and it is their goals.
And there are some people thatcome in that they are looking
for conditioning because they'redoing a specific sport or
something like that, and that's.
That's a little different, butI still put strength training in
there.
It's still a foundation.
You got to be strong enough toMake the conditioning effective
or the sport that you're doingwith it.
Dr Alec (20:16):
You, you, we've.
We mentioned the phrasestrength training.
I and I think a lot of peoplehave this idea that I got to go
work out Verse like training,because training is more
strategic, you're moving towardsa goal, whereas the other one's
like kind of chaotic runningaround in all these places.
Yeah, not efficient.
You think strength is more of askill?
Yes, I would agree with that.
Rob (20:37):
I just yeah, what's worth?
Yeah, I mean, you have yourlike naturally strong people
that just can pick likesomething heavy up and moving.
Sure, but it is more of a skill.
A lot of strength isneurological and it's a lot of
kind of like practice over andover and the movement patterns
getting better and better andthen you see, like strength are
going because the body has towant to be able to send the
signal for it actually to getstronger too.
(20:58):
So, yeah, strength training, alot of it is like, most of the
time, training is practicing.
You should, almost every timeyou're coming in your practice,
you shouldn't be either justworking out like this any away
or you shouldn't be testing allthe time.
Mm-hmm, testing like that'swhat like in strength training
and like you'll have like a lotof younger people, they try to
see how strong they are nonstop.
(21:18):
That's unnecessary for generalpopulation, for like health
awareness.
Sure, unless you're playing oryou're participating in a sport,
that that's the actual outcome.
Dr Alec (21:27):
There's not a whole lot of need to pick up the
heaviest item off the floor.
It's just not.
You want a high enoughthreshold.
So when you pick up about 20pound, whatever, it's easy in
life.
But yeah, there's no need totext test them one rep, max or
the barbell all the time, orever for some people.
Rob (21:42):
No, I mean I tend to see like the best places is around
like a 75, 70, 70% I would sayto like 85% effort, conditioning
and strength training.
That that's where people tendto get the best.
It's a good enough, like roador effort, that you're able to
(22:04):
kind of practice and you're notgoing so hard to where you're
going so heavy when you'retesting it.
Because, like, when you go soheavy, your body it's just
trying to just do it and not get, it's not getting better at the
movement, it's just trying tosurvive.
And then if you're going sohard and conditioning, it's just
trying to survive and it's not.
It doesn't want to get better.
I do this over and over againtype of deal.
Dr Alec (22:25):
So someone comes in and they don't know their one
rep maxes or they've never hadany idea what that is.
Yeah, I say 75% Yep.
Would you go to an?
Rob (22:34):
RIR, yeah, yeah.
So you see me use Perceivedeffort and so when you, when you
rate on there, because a lot oftimes a percentage they don't
know it, or the percentage feelsreal heavy for today.
But this is what I want you todo, is I want you to be at this
much effort on there.
So it's kind of like they don'talways match up.
(22:56):
So we always you see us use aboat on there, just so people
know like, hey, I'm not, I'm notfeeling this good today, but
but I'm doing this effort have adifficult time understanding
that they need to flip.
Dr Alec (23:12):
Have you or do you feel like that's more of an
issue?
Rob (23:14):
Yeah.
So yes, there's differentcrowds on there and a lot.
And then you have like,sometimes your women or some
people, they're not gonna gothat heavy.
They always tend to stay at thesame weight, no matter if you
say, like, effort of nine or 90%to pay, we're at five.
It looks like, hey, you'reusing the same weight.
(23:37):
And technically some of them,if you do change the weight,
their max is not that far away alittle bit, it's just working
on it over and over.
But yeah, I run into that allthe time.
Dr Alec (23:48):
That's skill right.
Rob (23:50):
Correct.
Dr Alec (23:51):
Knowing that perceive you gotta almost spend time
there enough to start tounderstand how these are the
different levels.
Rob (23:55):
Yeah.
Dr Alec (23:56):
I'll draw back across this because I think a lot of
our viewers and listeners havedabbled in that before.
Right.
That first time you go with himon a workout you die on the
floor and realize you overpacedin the first five minutes, right
.
Rob (24:08):
Know yourself.
Dr Alec (24:10):
You learn how to then do that skill.
Rob (24:13):
I don't think it's strength training right the
first time you wanna pull maxout and build the bar of crashes
on you in a bench press,whatever it is right, Yep, yeah,
and it's CrossFit lays outstrength in a certain way, where
it's like max efforts a lot oftimes and stuff.
That's not the best way to kindof like get better at that on
there, but I try to be veryeducational and I feel the more
(24:34):
knowledge an individual has, themore likely they're gonna be
successful on there, because itdoesn't do any good if I'm.
I have to like kind of teachthem every time.
The more independent they are,the more they're gonna be able
to understand and take care ofthemselves and like we really
concentrate on that and I do alot with that.
Dr Alec (24:52):
So let's say that's great and all.
Where can I go look up stuffLike very basic level strength
training for someone?
That wants to do it themselves.
Rob (25:03):
So there are, and I mean I actually like the show, mind
Pump, the podcast.
It's very they have a good way,because what happens a lot of
times is the conversation gets alittle over what people's head
is, and then that's what we'refor, to like kind of take that
information, digest it and thentranslate it, you know.
(25:23):
So I like to show people, oncethey're at a certain level, of
certain things to go and listento or look at.
But a lot of times, like Idon't want them to get confused,
because there's a lot ofconfusing information and even
good information can beconfusing for them- I mean even
at elite levels, where their jobis to be strong there's
(25:44):
confusing information All thetime.
I mean, I'm constantly lookingat stuff and I like sometimes
I'm getting a little confused.
I'm like, well, you said thisagain and you gotta like someone
will bring up some research andyou gotta kind of pay attention
to it.
It's like, oh man, that soundslike something different I'm
doing, but it actually doesn'tmake any sense to do that with
general population, so I'm justgonna kind of like put that on a
back burner on there.
You know and you see that a lot.
I mean the strength world inhigh-purchase, which
(26:06):
bodybuilding world they're likethere's constantly conflict and
information with that.
Dr Alec (26:11):
Yeah, so we've been saying strength training I'm
assuming from the definitionright we're talking about
building muscle as well, Likeit's included in that right.
Rob (26:19):
Correct.
Yes, yeah, and like the bigterms now is like high-purchase.
It's like it's a discipline ofbodybuilding but you're not
actually trying to go on stageor anything.
You're trying to develop yourmuscles and put on a little bit
of size.
And strength training when youlook in definition it's a little
different, but they can go kindof hand in hand and that is
(26:41):
practicing movements and tryingto get specifically stronger on
that.
In general, you're trying toget specifically stronger.
What's your view on strengthtraining?
They go hand in hand.
And I mean, some poor personlike read the research, is like,
oh, this much rep range worksfor this and this stuff and it
does All of it.
That's all true.
(27:02):
Unless you're at that rep rangefor a while, then this one
would actually do that and youknow.
So it's like.
But I tell people and that'swhy I tend to like to do what I
call training phases Some peoplecall them blocks and everything
else Because I know once peopleare in a specific thing for an
amount of time, they either getbored with it or they kind of
squeeze all the adaptation thatthey're gonna get out of it and
(27:25):
you see, like, a lot of timesyou wanna see new gains when you
first go to a different novelty.
And I'm saying that and I'mthinking people are gonna be
like oh, that means that I'mgonna change stuff all the time.
That's not what you wanna do Is, when you first move to
something, then you need tospend the amount of time in
doing that stuff to get theadaptation from it.
But if you're just constantlydoing something different, which
(27:49):
it was turned like muscleconfusion the only thing you're
doing is confusing yourself andthere's not much that's gonna
come out of that.
Dr Alec (27:55):
It's a novel-loaded question.
I don't know if you wanna spot,but how often should you change
?
Rob (27:59):
the program.
So I think and we do is aroundfour weeks is probably the
shortest, and you should finallytake a look at the.
Six to eight is about thelongest.
Now, like way back when I wasyounger, I would write out like
12, and there's a lot of classicweightlifting and powerlifting
(28:21):
cycles that go up to 12 andsometimes 14.
Those are too boring and thosepeople are like just very apt to
just doing a few things at atime.
You know, with generalpopulation, you touch it enough,
do you see the difference andthey're getting stronger, and
then you bring them to somethingelse on there.
But you need to spend enoughtime.
The minimum would be four weekson there.
That would be the longest.
(28:41):
The longest I do is eight, butin the eight I probably phase in
the training phase like kind ofinto different things too.
Dr Alec (28:50):
It's not like you're spending a year doing the same
thing, but you're not spendingtwo days?
Rob (28:54):
either no.
Dr Alec (28:56):
One, two.
Rob (28:57):
Yeah and like, let's say, typical, and I'm just gonna like
make this very basic.
So every Monday we got a kindof like a back squat focus, all
right, and then there's a pushpull animal, so you got
horizontal and then you got apress the back squat.
I might keep every time andjust progress the load or the
(29:20):
reps or do something Maybe likelower the reps and then you know
, it just depends on what we'redoing.
And then the pull and pressingmovements every time I might
change them up.
One time might be a dumbbellrow, the next one might be a
barbell seal row, and then youknow, like some other type of
cable row or something, and thenthe press.
That's planned variation, notconstantly random variation.
(29:46):
So I'm still doing my movementpattern, I'm just using a
different exercise.
Yeah, a lot of times I'll tendto program like that.
I see that work best too.
Dr Alec (29:55):
Keeps people interested, and you're still
working with these people for itCorrect.
Rob (29:58):
yes, it does.
Dr Alec (30:00):
So we've touched on a few things that were mistakes
that people commonly make in theindustry, or persuasive in the
industry, I should say yeah, thefitness industry is very
persuasive.
Yes, so what would you say arecommon things that we haven't
touched on, that are cheap?
Rob (30:17):
Yeah, you know, I just think people well common things
are because we kind of touchedon a lot of it.
Is there anything else thatwe've touched on?
No, I would just have peoplelike educate themselves,
understand what they're actuallydoing in there A lot of times,
understand the strength trainingthat they might believe they're
doing might not be the mostoptimal for them or for, in
(30:39):
general.
Strength should be the base formost things you're doing,
unless you're doing somethingsport specific on there.
That's kind of I think wecovered a lot of it.
I might be forgetting something, I'm sure.
Dr Alec (30:52):
Do you think there's a place I don't even know the
answer for power and more of ageneral population, but speed
quality to strength.
Rob (31:00):
Yeah, 100%.
Like earlier, I talked aboutstrength and the fundamental
movements.
If you're good and decent atthose, then you can throw in
power movements and jumping andthose are really important.
I believe they're rightunderneath really important,
because if you can't lungebackwards and you can't get up
(31:20):
without assistant, then I don'tknow if I'm gonna have you jump
or I'm gonna have you you know.
So those things, you gotta bekind of careful.
If you can't squat right, Idon't know if I'm gonna have you
do a certain type of clean or acertain type of thing, because
you're not strong enough yet forthat to elicit the power,
because power is elicit likestrength fast.
Yeah, all this, yeah, but thosethings are important.
(31:41):
Balance is important and weincorporate all those things.
You know I have a focal pointand then we put those on there
and, yes, they're 100% important.
I think people should work onit.
General population should.
And the thing is is most peopledon't properly work the
reactive strength and that'swhere you see like a little bit
of injuries and that's workingon the jumping and everything
else, and that needs to look acertain way too, and not 50 box
(32:05):
jumps in a workout.
That doesn't work theplyometric, or the strength that
you're looking for, or thereactive strength that we're
trying to do?
Dr Alec (32:15):
I think you see people jump on 24 inch boxes 30 inch
boxes and we're like, oh my God,that's amazing.
Rob (32:20):
And some people.
Dr Alec (32:20):
That's a big heat but, you're consistently even
general population.
You can jump much higher thanthat.
They're training in a certainpattern.
They produce a tower and forcequickly.
Yes, they've been on 24 inchboxes.
That's for everything.
Rob (32:34):
Do anything other than make you be able to jump over 24
inch boxes and it usuallybuilds in the pattern of that
type of jump under fatigue.
So you will not be able toproduce the proper force and it
will not send a big enoughsignal of a good adaptation if
you're doing it under fatigue,and that's just kind of pretty
plain.
So I'm not saying not to dothat sometimes because that's
(32:55):
fine.
I mean I'll do it under fatigue, but most of the time I'm gonna
work on it away from that howit should be worked on.
Dr Alec (33:02):
I brought up power.
I think that's even a harderthing than some strength,
because you walk away from somepower activities jumping stuff
almost like you did nothing.
And it didn't mean it didn'twork, but you walk away and you
rest for whatever, sometimes oneto 12, maybe a year, because
those are more important.
Rob (33:18):
Actually to rest longer so you can elicit the same power
every time on her because youdon't wanna lose a decline in
power, and then when you'redoing stuff, because then all
it's doing is reinforcing that.
Dr Alec (33:30):
So sometimes that's even longer rest than the
strength training on there, theneurological aspect, the skill
and it's amazing how quickly,you start to feel the heat the
nervous system more than some ofthose other components of
getting able to pump bugs there,contract them off.
Rob (33:45):
The hook, yeah, and I mean a big thing like with jumping
too.
I mean I'm big on jumping.
I mean some people I mean wehave people that don't but I
mean we start people really,really low.
Because the ability to jump isnot only the ability to produce
force that's important, but it'salso understanding how to
absorb the force anddeceleration.
(34:05):
If you can absorb force anddecelerate, that means like if
you tripped, you can handle thedeceleration without something
happening.
So those are like reallyimportant components that will
not be worked under fatigue.
Dr Alec (34:18):
The amount of, say, older individuals who, like I,
keep falling and all that kindof stuff and you can't even pop
off something.
I think that's the first placeI start.
You know the last thing you did, then 20 something.
That's how you react and getout of the way of a car.
There is a fire metric to it.
Part of life.
Rob (34:37):
Correct, and when you take your body there then it's a
little more familiar, lesslikely than there's gonna be an
injury.
Because that's what I deal witha lot of times is someone went
to do something.
But when you see people andthey go to either jump or go to
do something, they're reallyhesitant and they're like man, I
thought I could do this.
I haven't done this in a whileand it's like, yeah, I mean like
that reactive strength and theability to jump and move quickly
(34:58):
is one of the first things thatgo and they're very important
to constantly touch.
But don't think you're touchingthem if you're doing them under
fatigue, that's not.
It will hardly send any kind ofsignal for that.
Dr Alec (35:14):
If I were to get someone in here and they were
like how can I age well and noone age well.
If I'm off something, if I'monto it, they're probably in a
good spot.
Rob (35:23):
Correct, yes, yeah.
The ability to be able to dothat and that's showing me that
you can contract quick and thenproduce force quick, then
there's a lot of things we cando.
Strong, yeah, strong, 100%.
Dr Alec (35:37):
And just because you can't do it with 500,000,.
That doesn't equate to dailylife too long.
Rob (35:43):
No, no, no, 100%.
You don't have to do.
But being strong makes lifeeasier.
I mean, the bones get moredense.
Dr Alec (35:52):
But it just makes life easier.
Rob (35:53):
You're able to pick stuff up, you're able to move it,
you're able to get around withno problem.
Help people do stuff, yeah.
Dr Alec (36:00):
I think being strong is part of daily life, but at
the end that's great.
I mean that's a good cap ingeneral.
Yeah, you spend most of yourday in strength continuum, so
practice it yes.
Rob, thank you so much.
Thank you for sharing yourinformation, your knowledge and
again, where are you at?
Rob (36:15):
I'm at Vero Strength and you can go to VeroStraightcom
and I appreciate being here.
Thank you so much, al.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, man, oh.
So today we got Rob from Vero Strength and
Conditioning again.
He's going to talk all thingsstrength.
How are you?
Rob (00:08):
I'm doing well, this is our second time actually doing
this.
Yeah, second podcast we'regoing to dive a little deeper
into our subject here.
Dr Alec (00:18):
Correct, cool.
So, rob, why strength trainingfor the general population?
Rob (00:24):
In my belief, in our belief, strength training is the
number one, and not that we'resaying conditioning is not
important, but strength trainingis number one.
Strength training is the basefor all athletic endeavors and
it's the base for just abouteverything you have to do in
life.
Now there's different elements.
When you talk about strengthtraining, people start looking
(00:45):
and it's like, oh my God,strength training.
I'm not talking about the highlevel power lifters, I'm just
talking about strength trainingfor general population on there
and that's the most important onthere.
And I think now it's almostlike irrefutable from the
information that's coming outfrom all the research, how
important it is for everybody,including older adults, to do.
Dr Alec (01:06):
So how does that look different?
Right, you mentioned a powerlifter, a general pop.
How did they look?
Similar Is the base is similar.
Rob (01:13):
So there's principles you take from sports, or because
power lifting is a sport, orfrom certain disciplines that
can work for everybody, but theydon't do the exact same
training what they do.
Now they might do similarmovements too, but it's more
movement patterns than anythingelse.
(01:34):
When I talk about strengthtraining, there's six
fundamental patterns that wereally follow, like most
strength condition coachesbelieve in.
One of them is the squat youneed to be able to sit down and
stand up.
I think that's pretty commonlyknown.
The other one is a hinge, whichis close to a deadlift position
type of deal.
And then one's a lunge you needto be able to go backwards or
(01:57):
forward and go to a kneebasically almost sit around and
get up kind of deal.
The other one is a press, soyou need to be able to press
vertically and horizontally, orsome version close to it Sure.
The other one is a pullvertically and horizontally to
be able to pull yourself ontothings or move around, and then
a carry you need to carrysomething.
So those six fundamentalmovements, those patterns should
(02:20):
constantly be worked and peopleget better at that movement
quality with those and strongerat it, and that makes life in
general easier with that.
Dr Alec (02:29):
So we have someone comes in right and they check
all these boxes and they'reready to go.
What would a strength routinelook like for them at a basic
level?
Rob (02:39):
So at a basic, so we can regress down all the way, which,
like you, can get real complexwith as far as the movements
you're using, but the patternsare still the same.
So, like a lot of times, whatwe do and you kind of want to do
is you want to work two tothree of those movement patterns
and it's almost like full bodyA lot of times in a workout.
(03:01):
And so you would look like I'mdoing a squat and then I'm doing
a vertical push and ahorizontal pull, and then what
you would do is you would set itup, and now there's several
ways to kind of do it.
But you would set it up andwould say the squat would be
squatting to a bench or gobletsquat or whatever.
So I'm doing five reps of thoseand then I'm doing seven
(03:22):
presses and then nine pulls.
What rest in between?
And I think that's where therest and the way the workouts
are set up is where people kindof like wave on.
They don't.
They don't understand it asmuch, because specific strength
training for true strength,looks a certain way and it's got
(03:42):
rest built in and it's donewith certain intent, and that's
where a lot of people kind ofget lost in the weeds with it in
there, and I see them.
What they're actually doingisn't strength training.
Now, they're doing the samemovements, but the intent and
the way it's laid out is notstrength training.
Dr Alec (04:02):
I think right, we, I'm going to say if we come from a
cross-fit background, functionalfitness may be.
Depending on what's going onwith that.
You're chasing this feeling ofI'm sweaty, out of breath on the
ground and we're equating thatto I'm getting stronger too.
But true strength training, youusually don't feel like that.
If you're chasing the rightthing, do you see that as a
(04:25):
common issue?
Rob (04:26):
Yes, you do so like cross-fits like it's own animal
movement.
I'll like address that onefirst and then go into like what
I see with the franchises andboot camps, because they're like
kind of a different animal onthere With cross-fit.
They, they, it depends, butthey, they tend to use the big
compound movement so it canequate, you can think, and it
could go way to strength, but itreally doesn't.
(04:48):
Once the heart rates highenough and they're kind of doing
too many reps and start movingthrough it on her, but it it
very mimics and looks reallyclose to it.
A lot of people think andcross-fits like number one
probably on that list that agood workout is how tired, how
sweaty and then how sore theyare the next day and none of
(05:09):
those are good indications of agood workout at all.
On there Now, if you're in ahot place and you're doing
proper strength training, yeah,you're gonna sweat, but there's
times where it is it does notfeel like that.
And one thing cause it's closeto the cardio is when you're
doing like I understand cardio,I really like conditioning,
(05:29):
conditioning work, not so muchcardio, but is you have this
really feeling is like almostlike that run or high?
You really have like a bigaccomplishment when you get done
with that and people look forthat.
And sometimes in strengthtraining you don't have that
exact feeling.
What you do on a strengthtraining is you have more.
Instead of this euphoric high,it's more of this like feeling
powerful and strong and you feellike you accomplished and moved
(05:52):
something.
So that's like a wholedifferent mindset to get into
and I like them both on there.
But most people chase the highand they think that's doing what
the strength training is doingover there.
And then this to kind of likejust jump into and touch, like
the franchises and boot campsand stuff that we see Like a lot
(06:13):
of times you see them do thesame movements but then tend in
the way they're laid out and so,for instance, what I just told
you, a classic strength trainingwould be legs push, pull.
So we're doing a squat, thenwe're doing a pull-up and then
we're doing a bench press andthen any version of push-up,
whatever lat, pull down.
So on there, any version of asquat five sets of five reps
(06:35):
with two minutes rest, a minimumin between, on there and then
you go up in a decent load andyou move through it.
That's like a 30 or 40 minuteworkout.
If your movement pattern isgood enough and you're strong
enough, that's like about allyou need on there.
But let's say I take those samemovements.
So now we're doing some airsquat or whatever goblet squat
and then we're gonna go do somea band to pull up or some kind
(06:59):
of TRX row and then we're doingsome push-up on our knee and we
turn that into a 30 minutemoving around, like now, that's
not strength training.
It's still same movementpatterns, but it's no longer
strength training.
It gets closer to a signal ofcardio and when you're doing
stuff you're looking for signalsthat are more adaptations.
So what are you getting out ofit?
So a lot of times people aredoing and they think well, we're
(07:23):
doing this moves and we'redoing a strength training, but
the signal they're getting isgonna be closer to cardio and
that's the adaptations they'regonna get.
It's not.
You're not gonna get stronger,especially when you're
deconditioned.
Everyone gets stronger, nomatter what you do.
But once you start doing thingsfor a while, you don't get
stronger.
You end up getting a littlemore of the adaptation of cardio
, your movement's patterns,unless you really focus on them,
(07:43):
which most people don't.
When you're under fatigue andyou're doing a lot of them, then
you end up building up thesebad movement patterns on there
too also.
And then like we're cardio.
Even though it seems to be thatyou're looking for the calorie
burn, after a while you getefficient at cardio, it's not as
much as a calorie burn.
There's only a few ways toincrease your caloric like
(08:08):
expenditure.
One of them is sending a signalof strength training and the
other one is when you starteating more food.
It sends a signal.
Those are the only waysEverything else can kind of like
.
Cardio can enhance if it's doneproperly with it, but most of
the time what it's doing istaking away from that.
Dr Alec (08:25):
On there.
I mean a huge part of it, andI'll even say from a diabetes
standpoint.
If we're talking about generalpop, muscle mass is a huge sink
of energy.
And what builds muscle mass?
Strength training Correct.
Rob (08:38):
Yes, correct, and I mean conditioning is great for heart
and along.
But what you're trying to do,especially in modern times too,
and I hear this all over is thatyou're trying to make yourself
burn a lot of calories just byliving and so you want it's like
making you inefficient at thecalorie, so your body's very
(09:01):
inefficient at doingconditioning, so when it goes to
do it it burns a lot ofcalories.
Or when you go to move, youburn a lot of calories.
So that's kind of like whatyou're always going for and the
strength training can reallyhelp with that On there.
Like I always kind of like tryto push and explain to people,
like what it specifically lookslike, and that will get you
(09:22):
closer to where you want to gofor your goals.
Because I think the popularityof the franchises are all cool
and everything On there and theyhave their places is if people
really realized what they wereactually doing and the signal
it's sending, they might not doit as much.
Like I'm all up, someone comesto me and they're like a big
(09:44):
runner and they love running andit's like very euphoric and
meditating to them.
I don't have a problem with it,but a lot of people are running
or whatever exercise they'redoing, is they're doing it for a
reason.
I'm trying to lose weight.
I'm trying to do this.
If I told you or showed youfrom a device that is actually
not doing what you think it'sdoing and then showed you what
(10:07):
would with the device, and itwould just be clear you might
not do it as much, so it's likeit's the intent.
And then it's like what are youdoing it for?
What are your reasons?
On there, that has a lot to do.
If you're doing, if you'rerunning or you're there to be
the best boot camper that candance around them, then how
about it?
Dr Alec (10:27):
Yeah, your goals are different, Correct?
I think a huge component, atleast from what I've seen from
Jim's is is that if there's abarbell in the workout, they
think it's strength Just becausethere's a barbell on there.
And I'm going to make a reallyoverblown thing.
But if someone can overhead,squat 400 pounds and they have a
95 pound barbell in their hands, that's essentially if they're
(10:50):
doing high reps, that's a cardioworkout, Correct.
They're not getting thestrength adaptation from that of
anything.
They're kind of de-hyteningtheir nervous system so they can
track the little faster andbreathe through that.
They're not creating thetension needed.
Rob (11:01):
Yeah, and you're touching on a subject which I have to
like explain to people all thetime, and especially like when
you're newer one is you got tofocus on the movement quality
because you got to put yourselfin the optimal environment that
can focus on that movementquality and you can focus on
being stronger, and that's likepracticing the movement, having
a rest between really focusingon it.
That gets you to a point becausewhat happens is and I have to
(11:24):
go over this all the time is inthe beginning, when you're not
that strong and your movementquality is not that good, it
feels like you're not doing much.
If I wouldn't set you up andit's really light and you're
barely squatting to the bench,but really light kettlebells, a
gala squat, and you're justpulling on a TRX and we're on
our knees with push-ups orwhatever we're doing, and then
(11:47):
we're wrestling, you will feellike you're not doing that much,
but you have to go through thatpoint in order to get to the
strength point we're looking for.
Because now let me go and turnthat out the same movement
patterns, but now we'resquatting in the threes for five
reps or women in whatever likean adequate weight, and then
(12:08):
we're going ahead and we'redoing a heavy dumbbell rows and
then now we're bench pressing ordumbbell pressing or doing
push-ups.
Really good, that uses a lot ofenergy.
That individual, that is thatstrong, that does that when he
goes and does on an air bike orhe runs or he does whatever
piece of cardio he does, he'sgonna expend a lot more energy.
(12:28):
So the strength training canmake that cardio much more
effective, especially for fatburning.
If that's what you're lookingfor, and most people nowadays
are looking to lose some weighta lot of times.
Dr Alec (12:40):
And then just overall, just volume on your body right,
like you can do it way longer,like the pounding it takes.
And running I have nothingagainst running, you wanna run,
run, but that's gonna beat youup if you're going for the goal
of fat loss, whereas maybe ittakes you just a few more months
to start to see progress.
But you'll be able to do itlonger keep it long term.
Rob (12:59):
Yeah, we see like when in programming you'll see a lot of
times, coaches that don'tunderstand strength training A
lot, and there's times for, likestrength endurance is called,
but there's a lot of repsprogrammed and so you look at
the end of the workout andyou're like, oh man, they did
like 85 squatting and a hundredpushups to the knees and that's
(13:20):
wear and tear and that's gottabe paid attention to.
And yeah, in there, comparativeto like hey, they did 25 really
good movements of strength andthe third, I tend to find like
anything past 50 movements, likemost people are gonna break
down and it's gonna be veryfatiguing.
Dr Alec (13:37):
I think it's a badge of honor for people.
You see, I did 150 reps andlike there's no way I didn't get
better.
Rob (13:42):
There's a lot of way, you didn't get better with that,
yeah, I see like a lot ofbreakdown once it gets past a
certain amount of reps.
Now, like some movements aredifferent, like jumping rope or
whatever you can get past alittle bit, but movement starts
breaking down and then it startsbecoming ineffective.
Like I see a lot of peopletaking an approach.
It's like they're looking, theyhave a lot of output but not
(14:07):
very effective.
You know, and you're putting somuch time in this stuff and
like a lot of times there's wishI could just kind of convince
them like hey, just play overhere for a little while and then
you'll see on there.
Dr Alec (14:17):
What have you found is best to try to convince I'm
gonna say general population,people that have more weight
loss and health and fitnessgoals, that this is the route
you wanna go to achieve these,versus the lie on the floor?
Rob (14:30):
kind of get up and work out.
You know it's tough I mean Ideal with it almost every day
kind of deal and it's like yougot to cross them over.
But basically is informationand knowledge and this repeated
over and over and you're notgonna get to everyone because it
just doesn't make a lot ofsense to get more out of doing
(14:50):
less a lot of times.
But the more times you can kindof reinforce that information,
the more it'll see, and alsoit's they'll see what you're
doing and then what your clienttells and how they look, and
then it'll be like okay, I'mdoing this over here for 45
minutes or an hour.
These people come over here andthey do a quarter of the work
but yet they look good butthey're all strong.
(15:11):
So that's like that's some ofthe way that we try to convince
people.
Dr Alec (15:16):
I'm gonna be from a lazy perspective.
If I could do a quarter of thework and get the same results,
why wouldn't I?
I also view it as then I havemore time to do something else,
or work on another piece of whatI wanna work on Correct, and
then I can do what I want tohave.
Rob (15:30):
Yeah, like I and you've heard me say this before there's
a big difference in peopleinstead of the most tolerable
dose, so they're doing as muchas they can tolerate Most people
do, in which that gets realclose to leading to overtraining
or you can get to overuseissues, but the most optimal so
(15:52):
much less than they realize onthere, cause you're putting
yourself in your body in theoptimal position for it to go
ahead and get these adaptationsMost horrible.
There's only a little bit thatyou're gonna get and a lot of
times it just leads to like wayoveruse issues on there.
That's a big difference, andconvincing people that is hard,
cause they always will feel likethey're doing so much less.
Dr Alec (16:13):
I think maybe it's comes back to a sensation thing.
Yeah, because you don'tnecessarily feel it in the
moment.
The same way, you would pull ona row, or as fast as you can,
for 400.
Rob (16:23):
Correct, die on the floor after and you're 100% right,
because everybody can go reallyhard and get their selves out of
breath.
But not everybody is strongenough and moves well enough to
be able to move loads that seemvery effective.
But are you get a strong personand they do a strength workout,
they'll never tell you thatthey felt like they didn't do
(16:45):
anything.
Dr Alec (16:45):
You get off a heavy squat and you do it right.
Rob (16:47):
It's a full body movement.
Dr Alec (16:49):
You gotta sit there for three minutes after to do
your next set.
Rob (16:52):
Yeah, I mean, if you do a good strength training and now
conditioning or cardio will burnmore calories.
There's no like arguing aboutit.
But it's not as much differentas people think.
And if you've been doing thattype of conditioning for a long
period of time and you're prettyadapted to it and good to it,
it might even be less than thestrength training.
Dr Alec (17:12):
I mean, even I don't want to venture off into
conditioning, that's a differentsubject, but even something as
simple as research is kind ofalways.
Kind of it's always been up anddown on high intensity circuit,
low volume and I think, or Lowintensity, long volume, whatever
low steady-state cardio right,yeah, and it's all back and
forth.
Rob (17:32):
That's big now, basically regresses to the mean right
where it's.
Dr Alec (17:36):
It's still conditioning Yep and it's not
strength correct.
Rob (17:40):
They're different, correct the correct and like what
you're saying with the cardio.
But human nature is, wheneversomething comes out and it looks
more effective, a Little bit isgood, so a lot is better.
Yes, so we always got to watchout for that.
That's the biggest thing onthere.
And just I mean I could makethe same argument strange when
(18:00):
you're like Some is good, but ifyou went to these extremes and
like powerlifting or you becamea like a high-level Olympic,
like you're gonna have theissues with that, or a
high-level cross, for that hasto have a lot of like high-level
bodybuilders.
We all know like they're notthe healthiest and stuff.
So that that's a.
That's a different, that's adifferent story on a different
(18:20):
ballgame on there.
But like appropriate doses onthere and that's it.
It's just being appropriatethree days a week, string
training for it.
You know, have my little bit ofconditioning in day or two week
with that, but it's just humannature.
Dr Alec (18:36):
Yeah, you want it.
You know it works a little bit,so you want more of it.
Rob (18:40):
More of it, it's gonna maximize and it's not how the
human body always well when thehit came out, when that resource
came out I remember whenbecause I was I was younger on
there and just like like, justdiving in with like some
coaching and it looked prettygood.
They were mostly short-termResearch, looked much more
effective and so everyone jumpedon it.
And then they jumped on it somuch that it would that's all
(19:02):
they did and they stopped doingthe longer, slower and it's even
as good as resistance trainingbecause it's really close to it,
the way it works the systemAnerobically and everything.
But then you get long-termresearch.
You're like you don't want todo that every day and that's a
mistake and and a good blend ofeverything is actually pretty
good On there.
But I'm always the big thingwith strength training is it's
(19:23):
like a dial.
You got to send the biggestsignal one way than the other,
or else that's the big signalYou're getting for adaptation.
So if you're doing strengthtraining three days a week and
conditioning to, you're prettygood.
You're doing conditioning twodays a week and strength
training two days a week, you'repretty, you're in the, you're
in the middle.
Now you're doing strengthtraining and you're conditioning
(19:46):
, you're most likely just way onthe side, sure, and it's not
strength training at all.
Dr Alec (19:51):
If your goal is to improve conditioning, that might
be what you're going for acorrect.
It's not what most people are.
Yes, at least not that whataligns with your goals.
Rob (19:59):
Yeah, and it is, and it is their goals.
And there are some people thatcome in that they are looking
for conditioning because they'redoing a specific sport or
something like that, and that's.
That's a little different, butI still put strength training in
there.
It's still a foundation.
You got to be strong enough toMake the conditioning effective
or the sport that you're doingwith it.
Dr Alec (20:16):
You, you, we've.
We mentioned the phrasestrength training.
I and I think a lot of peoplehave this idea that I got to go
work out Verse like training,because training is more
strategic, you're moving towardsa goal, whereas the other one's
like kind of chaotic runningaround in all these places.
Yeah, not efficient.
You think strength is more of askill?
Yes, I would agree with that.
Rob (20:37):
I just yeah, what's worth?
Yeah, I mean, you have yourlike naturally strong people
that just can pick likesomething heavy up and moving.
Sure, but it is more of a skill.
A lot of strength isneurological and it's a lot of
kind of like practice over andover and the movement patterns
getting better and better andthen you see, like strength are
going because the body has towant to be able to send the
signal for it actually to getstronger too.
(20:58):
So, yeah, strength training, alot of it is like, most of the
time, training is practicing.
You should, almost every timeyou're coming in your practice,
you shouldn't be either justworking out like this any away
or you shouldn't be testing allthe time.
Mm-hmm, testing like that'swhat like in strength training
and like you'll have like a lotof younger people, they try to
see how strong they are nonstop.
(21:18):
That's unnecessary for generalpopulation, for like health
awareness.
Sure, unless you're playing oryou're participating in a sport,
that that's the actual outcome.
Dr Alec (21:27):
There's not a whole lot of need to pick up the
heaviest item off the floor.
It's just not.
You want a high enoughthreshold.
So when you pick up about 20pound, whatever, it's easy in
life.
But yeah, there's no need totext test them one rep, max or
the barbell all the time, orever for some people.
Rob (21:42):
No, I mean I tend to see like the best places is around
like a 75, 70, 70% I would sayto like 85% effort, conditioning
and strength training.
That that's where people tendto get the best.
It's a good enough, like roador effort, that you're able to
(22:04):
kind of practice and you're notgoing so hard to where you're
going so heavy when you'retesting it.
Because, like, when you go soheavy, your body it's just
trying to just do it and not get, it's not getting better at the
movement, it's just trying tosurvive.
And then if you're going sohard and conditioning, it's just
trying to survive and it's not.
It doesn't want to get better.
I do this over and over againtype of deal.
Dr Alec (22:25):
So someone comes in and they don't know their one
rep maxes or they've never hadany idea what that is.
Yeah, I say 75% Yep.
Would you go to an?
Rob (22:34):
RIR, yeah, yeah.
So you see me use Perceivedeffort and so when you, when you
rate on there, because a lot oftimes a percentage they don't
know it, or the percentage feelsreal heavy for today.
But this is what I want you todo, is I want you to be at this
much effort on there.
So it's kind of like they don'talways match up.
(22:56):
So we always you see us use aboat on there, just so people
know like, hey, I'm not, I'm notfeeling this good today, but
but I'm doing this effort have adifficult time understanding
that they need to flip.
Dr Alec (23:12):
Have you or do you feel like that's more of an
issue?
Rob (23:14):
Yeah.
So yes, there's differentcrowds on there and a lot.
And then you have like,sometimes your women or some
people, they're not gonna gothat heavy.
They always tend to stay at thesame weight, no matter if you
say, like, effort of nine or 90%to pay, we're at five.
It looks like, hey, you'reusing the same weight.
(23:37):
And technically some of them,if you do change the weight,
their max is not that far away alittle bit, it's just working
on it over and over.
But yeah, I run into that allthe time.
Dr Alec (23:48):
That's skill right.
Rob (23:50):
Correct.
Dr Alec (23:51):
Knowing that perceive you gotta almost spend time
there enough to start tounderstand how these are the
different levels.
Rob (23:55):
Yeah.
Dr Alec (23:56):
I'll draw back across this because I think a lot of
our viewers and listeners havedabbled in that before.
Right.
That first time you go with himon a workout you die on the
floor and realize you overpacedin the first five minutes, right
.
Rob (24:08):
Know yourself.
Dr Alec (24:10):
You learn how to then do that skill.
Rob (24:13):
I don't think it's strength training right the
first time you wanna pull maxout and build the bar of crashes
on you in a bench press,whatever it is right, Yep, yeah,
and it's CrossFit lays outstrength in a certain way, where
it's like max efforts a lot oftimes and stuff.
That's not the best way to kindof like get better at that on
there, but I try to be veryeducational and I feel the more
(24:34):
knowledge an individual has, themore likely they're gonna be
successful on there, because itdoesn't do any good if I'm.
I have to like kind of teachthem every time.
The more independent they are,the more they're gonna be able
to understand and take care ofthemselves and like we really
concentrate on that and I do alot with that.
Dr Alec (24:52):
So let's say that's great and all.
Where can I go look up stuffLike very basic level strength
training for someone?
That wants to do it themselves.
Rob (25:03):
So there are, and I mean I actually like the show, mind
Pump, the podcast.
It's very they have a good way,because what happens a lot of
times is the conversation gets alittle over what people's head
is, and then that's what we'refor, to like kind of take that
information, digest it and thentranslate it, you know.
(25:23):
So I like to show people, oncethey're at a certain level, of
certain things to go and listento or look at.
But a lot of times, like Idon't want them to get confused,
because there's a lot ofconfusing information and even
good information can beconfusing for them- I mean even
at elite levels, where their jobis to be strong there's
(25:44):
confusing information All thetime.
I mean, I'm constantly lookingat stuff and I like sometimes
I'm getting a little confused.
I'm like, well, you said thisagain and you gotta like someone
will bring up some research andyou gotta kind of pay attention
to it.
It's like, oh man, that soundslike something different I'm
doing, but it actually doesn'tmake any sense to do that with
general population, so I'm justgonna kind of like put that on a
back burner on there.
You know and you see that a lot.
I mean the strength world inhigh-purchase, which
(26:06):
bodybuilding world they're likethere's constantly conflict and
information with that.
Dr Alec (26:11):
Yeah, so we've been saying strength training I'm
assuming from the definitionright we're talking about
building muscle as well, Likeit's included in that right.
Rob (26:19):
Correct.
Yes, yeah, and like the bigterms now is like high-purchase.
It's like it's a discipline ofbodybuilding but you're not
actually trying to go on stageor anything.
You're trying to develop yourmuscles and put on a little bit
of size.
And strength training when youlook in definition it's a little
different, but they can go kindof hand in hand and that is
(26:41):
practicing movements and tryingto get specifically stronger on
that.
In general, you're trying toget specifically stronger.
What's your view on strengthtraining?
They go hand in hand.
And I mean, some poor personlike read the research, is like,
oh, this much rep range worksfor this and this stuff and it
does All of it.
That's all true.
(27:02):
Unless you're at that rep rangefor a while, then this one
would actually do that and youknow.
So it's like.
But I tell people and that'swhy I tend to like to do what I
call training phases Some peoplecall them blocks and everything
else Because I know once peopleare in a specific thing for an
amount of time, they either getbored with it or they kind of
squeeze all the adaptation thatthey're gonna get out of it and
(27:25):
you see, like, a lot of timesyou wanna see new gains when you
first go to a different novelty.
And I'm saying that and I'mthinking people are gonna be
like oh, that means that I'mgonna change stuff all the time.
That's not what you wanna do Is, when you first move to
something, then you need tospend the amount of time in
doing that stuff to get theadaptation from it.
But if you're just constantlydoing something different, which
(27:49):
it was turned like muscleconfusion the only thing you're
doing is confusing yourself andthere's not much that's gonna
come out of that.
Dr Alec (27:55):
It's a novel-loaded question.
I don't know if you wanna spot,but how often should you change
?
Rob (27:59):
the program.
So I think and we do is aroundfour weeks is probably the
shortest, and you should finallytake a look at the.
Six to eight is about thelongest.
Now, like way back when I wasyounger, I would write out like
12, and there's a lot of classicweightlifting and powerlifting
(28:21):
cycles that go up to 12 andsometimes 14.
Those are too boring and thosepeople are like just very apt to
just doing a few things at atime.
You know, with generalpopulation, you touch it enough,
do you see the difference andthey're getting stronger, and
then you bring them to somethingelse on there.
But you need to spend enoughtime.
The minimum would be four weekson there.
That would be the longest.
(28:41):
The longest I do is eight, butin the eight I probably phase in
the training phase like kind ofinto different things too.
Dr Alec (28:50):
It's not like you're spending a year doing the same
thing, but you're not spendingtwo days?
Rob (28:54):
either no.
Dr Alec (28:56):
One, two.
Rob (28:57):
Yeah and like, let's say, typical, and I'm just gonna like
make this very basic.
So every Monday we got a kindof like a back squat focus, all
right, and then there's a pushpull animal, so you got
horizontal and then you got apress the back squat.
I might keep every time andjust progress the load or the
(29:20):
reps or do something Maybe likelower the reps and then you know
, it just depends on what we'redoing.
And then the pull and pressingmovements every time I might
change them up.
One time might be a dumbbellrow, the next one might be a
barbell seal row, and then youknow, like some other type of
cable row or something, and thenthe press.
That's planned variation, notconstantly random variation.
(29:46):
So I'm still doing my movementpattern, I'm just using a
different exercise.
Yeah, a lot of times I'll tendto program like that.
I see that work best too.
Dr Alec (29:55):
Keeps people interested, and you're still
working with these people for itCorrect.
Rob (29:58):
yes, it does.
Dr Alec (30:00):
So we've touched on a few things that were mistakes
that people commonly make in theindustry, or persuasive in the
industry, I should say yeah, thefitness industry is very
persuasive.
Yes, so what would you say arecommon things that we haven't
touched on, that are cheap?
Rob (30:17):
Yeah, you know, I just think people well common things
are because we kind of touchedon a lot of it.
Is there anything else thatwe've touched on?
No, I would just have peoplelike educate themselves,
understand what they're actuallydoing in there A lot of times,
understand the strength trainingthat they might believe they're
doing might not be the mostoptimal for them or for, in
(30:39):
general.
Strength should be the base formost things you're doing,
unless you're doing somethingsport specific on there.
That's kind of I think wecovered a lot of it.
I might be forgetting something, I'm sure.
Dr Alec (30:52):
Do you think there's a place I don't even know the
answer for power and more of ageneral population, but speed
quality to strength.
Rob (31:00):
Yeah, 100%.
Like earlier, I talked aboutstrength and the fundamental
movements.
If you're good and decent atthose, then you can throw in
power movements and jumping andthose are really important.
I believe they're rightunderneath really important,
because if you can't lungebackwards and you can't get up
(31:20):
without assistant, then I don'tknow if I'm gonna have you jump
or I'm gonna have you you know.
So those things, you gotta bekind of careful.
If you can't squat right, Idon't know if I'm gonna have you
do a certain type of clean or acertain type of thing, because
you're not strong enough yet forthat to elicit the power,
because power is elicit likestrength fast.
Yeah, all this, yeah, but thosethings are important.
(31:41):
Balance is important and weincorporate all those things.
You know I have a focal pointand then we put those on there
and, yes, they're 100% important.
I think people should work onit.
General population should.
And the thing is is most peopledon't properly work the
reactive strength and that'swhere you see like a little bit
of injuries and that's workingon the jumping and everything
else, and that needs to look acertain way too, and not 50 box
(32:05):
jumps in a workout.
That doesn't work theplyometric, or the strength that
you're looking for, or thereactive strength that we're
trying to do?
Dr Alec (32:15):
I think you see people jump on 24 inch boxes 30 inch
boxes and we're like, oh my God,that's amazing.
Rob (32:20):
And some people.
Dr Alec (32:20):
That's a big heat but, you're consistently even
general population.
You can jump much higher thanthat.
They're training in a certainpattern.
They produce a tower and forcequickly.
Yes, they've been on 24 inchboxes.
That's for everything.
Rob (32:34):
Do anything other than make you be able to jump over 24
inch boxes and it usuallybuilds in the pattern of that
type of jump under fatigue.
So you will not be able toproduce the proper force and it
will not send a big enoughsignal of a good adaptation if
you're doing it under fatigue,and that's just kind of pretty
plain.
So I'm not saying not to dothat sometimes because that's
(32:55):
fine.
I mean I'll do it under fatigue, but most of the time I'm gonna
work on it away from that howit should be worked on.
Dr Alec (33:02):
I brought up power.
I think that's even a harderthing than some strength,
because you walk away from somepower activities jumping stuff
almost like you did nothing.
And it didn't mean it didn'twork, but you walk away and you
rest for whatever, sometimes oneto 12, maybe a year, because
those are more important.
Rob (33:18):
Actually to rest longer so you can elicit the same power
every time on her because youdon't wanna lose a decline in
power, and then when you'redoing stuff, because then all
it's doing is reinforcing that.
Dr Alec (33:30):
So sometimes that's even longer rest than the
strength training on there, theneurological aspect, the skill
and it's amazing how quickly,you start to feel the heat the
nervous system more than some ofthose other components of
getting able to pump bugs there,contract them off.
Rob (33:45):
The hook, yeah, and I mean a big thing like with jumping
too.
I mean I'm big on jumping.
I mean some people I mean wehave people that don't but I
mean we start people really,really low.
Because the ability to jump isnot only the ability to produce
force that's important, but it'salso understanding how to
absorb the force anddeceleration.
(34:05):
If you can absorb force anddecelerate, that means like if
you tripped, you can handle thedeceleration without something
happening.
So those are like reallyimportant components that will
not be worked under fatigue.
Dr Alec (34:18):
The amount of, say, older individuals who, like I,
keep falling and all that kindof stuff and you can't even pop
off something.
I think that's the first placeI start.
You know the last thing you did, then 20 something.
That's how you react and getout of the way of a car.
There is a fire metric to it.
Part of life.
Rob (34:37):
Correct, and when you take your body there then it's a
little more familiar, lesslikely than there's gonna be an
injury.
Because that's what I deal witha lot of times is someone went
to do something.
But when you see people andthey go to either jump or go to
do something, they're reallyhesitant and they're like man, I
thought I could do this.
I haven't done this in a whileand it's like, yeah, I mean like
that reactive strength and theability to jump and move quickly
(34:58):
is one of the first things thatgo and they're very important
to constantly touch.
But don't think you're touchingthem if you're doing them under
fatigue, that's not.
It will hardly send any kind ofsignal for that.
Dr Alec (35:14):
If I were to get someone in here and they were
like how can I age well and noone age well.
If I'm off something, if I'monto it, they're probably in a
good spot.
Rob (35:23):
Correct, yes, yeah.
The ability to be able to dothat and that's showing me that
you can contract quick and thenproduce force quick, then
there's a lot of things we cando.
Strong, yeah, strong, 100%.
Dr Alec (35:37):
And just because you can't do it with 500,000,.
That doesn't equate to dailylife too long.
Rob (35:43):
No, no, no, 100%.
You don't have to do.
But being strong makes lifeeasier.
I mean, the bones get moredense.
Dr Alec (35:52):
But it just makes life easier.
Rob (35:53):
You're able to pick stuff up, you're able to move it,
you're able to get around withno problem.
Help people do stuff, yeah.
Dr Alec (36:00):
I think being strong is part of daily life, but at
the end that's great.
I mean that's a good cap ingeneral.
Yeah, you spend most of yourday in strength continuum, so
practice it yes.
Rob, thank you so much.
Thank you for sharing yourinformation, your knowledge and
again, where are you at?
Rob (36:15):
I'm at Vero Strength and you can go to VeroStraightcom
and I appreciate being here.
Thank you so much, al.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, man, oh.
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