Discipline, embracing discomfort, and Living Intentionally: Lessons from ultra endurance athlete Joe Gagnon

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This conversation is with Joe Gagnon - endurance athlete, six-time CEO, and author of Living Intentionally. Joe has completed over 90 marathons and ultras, six Ironman triathlons, and recently finished the grueling Badwater 135. In this episode, we explore what it means to show up with purpose, the role of discomfort in growth, and how small, daily actions shape who we become. Joe shares lessons from his book, his extreme endurance challenges, and his mindset for building a life of grit, grace, and groundedness.

We discuss: 

• Joe’s experience running Badwater 135 
• His wake up call to start living his life more intentionally 
• Changing his life one small habit at a time 
• Transitioning to a plant-based diet 
• The importance of having a strong why 
• The five pillars of health - do something for each one intentionally each day 
• Embracing discomfort 
• Potatoes as an endurance event superfood 
• Grit, grace, and groundedness 
• Why having a mindfulness practice is of value 
• His approach to goal setting 

Get the book - out now! Living Intentionally: How intentionality enables success, fulfillment, and growth

Connect:

• Email Joe directly: [e-mail] 
• Joe’s website: https://thehighperformancelife.net/ 
• Substack: @joecurious  
• Instagram: @thehighperformancelife
• YouTube: @josephgagnon 
• The Chasing Tomorrow Podcast 

Shop Nella, The Performance Probiotic: Use code CASS10 at checkout.

Audio editing and processing by Wyatt Pavlik

Theme music by Ievgen Poltavskyi from Pixabay

*Please appreciate that any information discussed is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, always seek the opinion of a physician or qualified healthcare provider.*

Episode Transcript

Cassie Warbeck (00:03):
This is the here All Day podcast.
I'm Dr Cassie Horvath, a sportsmedicine physician and combat
sports athlete.
This podcast is all aboutsharing conversations that break
down the science of sportsmedicine, recovery training and
plant-based nutrition to helpyou perform at your best, stay
healthy and show up all day.
Hey everyone, I'm reallyexcited to share today's episode

(00:27):
because it's all about what itmeans to live with purpose,
resilience and intention everysingle day.
My guest is Joe Gagnon, anadventurer, endurance athlete,
ceo and now author of the bookLiving Intentionally.
Joe has completed six Ironmantriathlons, over 90 marathons
and ultra marathons, and oncerun six marathons on six
continents in six consecutivedays.

(00:48):
In 2024 alone, he ran 3,000miles, did 150,000 push-ups and
even knocked out 2,000 pull-upsin under 12 hours.
Oh, and he just finishedBadwater 135, one of the hardest
foot races in the world.
On the business side, he's alsoa six-time CEO and he writes a
daily blog and hosts the ChasingTomorrow podcast.
But what I find most fascinatingisn't just what Joe does, it's

(01:10):
how he does it.
His approach to performance,growth and life itself is deeply
rooted in intentionality.
His new book, livingIntentionally, is part memoir,
part playbook, a guide tobuilding a meaningful life
through leaning into discomfort,practicing consistency and
aligned action.
He writes about how the small,deliberate choices we make each
day, especially when no one iswatching, shape who we become.

(01:30):
In this conversation, wediscuss his experience running
bad water literally four daysago.
How he balances the pillars ofhealth, including sleep, his
decision to adopt a plant-baseddiet, what living intentionally
means, and embracing discomfort.
Throughout the conversation,joe shares practical insights
from the book that anyone canapply, whether you're trying to
grow as an athlete in yourcareer or just simply want to

(01:52):
live with more clarity andconsistency.
This episode is packed withwisdom, but also grounded in
real experience.
Joe doesn't just teachintentional living, he lives it.
Please enjoy.
Welcome to the podcast, joe.
It's so good to finally meetyou.
I've heard many good thingsfrom our mutual friend, robert.
Thanks for being here.

Joe Gagnon (02:10):
Oh, Cassie, it's great.
I look forward to theconversation.
You know, following yourbackground and sort of the
progression that you've beenmaking, I think we're going to
have a lot of fun together inthis conversation.

Cassie Warbeck (02:21):
I think so too, and we were just talking a
little bit back off air and Ijust there's so many things I
want to dive into, so hopefullywe'll get to as much as we can
with the time we have.
But I just have to start out byasking you about Badwater.
You just finished arguably thetoughest race in the world,
literally, I think, four daysago, which is incredible, and
I'm very grateful that ourpodcast lined up right

(02:42):
afterwards because I get to askyou about it.
How are you feeling?
Maybe I'll start with that.

Joe Gagnon (02:47):
I'm actually feeling much better than I ever could
have imagined.
I'm not really sure.
I think there's this like onone side of me and says you
really prepared very well.
You know, I did all the heattraining, did the miles, all
that, but sometimes you stilldon't feel good afterward.
I think that you know this wasa dream kind of race, a race

(03:10):
that you never expect to be inin your life, no matter how good
you are, who you are One,because it's very few people
running.
You know the claim to fame isthat less people have run bad
water than climb Mount Everest,and you know it's this 135 miles
through Death Valley.
When you're there, you know whythey call it that Nothing lives
there.

(03:30):
I saw a couple of scorpions andthat was about the life.
You know it's 120 degrees.
You've got these three massivemountain passes and you're just
trying to figure out you knowhow much stress your system can
endure and continue to moveforward, and so you know, of
course we can get into thedetails.
I mean, there was, thebeginning was great, the middle

(03:51):
was tough and was great, uh, butyeah, I've been out running.
You know there's this like I'mnot a doctor at all, like you
are, but I'm learning a lot.
You know people talk about like.
So there's different parts ofmy mental state.
Phenomenal my muscles are tightbut feeling good.

(04:12):
I know that my nervous systemis going to take two to three
weeks to reset.
There is that thing that wedon't control and no one talks
about it, but you can tellthere's some parts of it that
you're just like okay, I just goa little easier.
You know I ran for a run thismorning, uh, on one of the
mountains here in Colorado andyou know I was just sort of
loping along and just feelingfine to be outside, um, but

(04:33):
there wasn't any speed in me inthe.
That's going to take a while togo back.
Uh, I felt like I hydrated well, I drank an extraordinary
amount and I think my nutritionstrategy was pretty good.
And then I you know, in this newbook that I wrote, living
Intentionally, I write about thesix marathon challenge I did in

(04:54):
2017.
And, similarly, when I finished, I was like I thought it was
going to be harder, and I wouldsay bad word, I thought it was
going to be harder.
I think it's all about mindset.
I really think that's what itis.
I go in with the right mindsetand I never end up in this sort
of desperate dark space.
So I accept what it is that Itake on, and then it's great,

(05:18):
you know.
And so, yeah, there arefeelings, but like wow, yeah I'm
.
I sort of said to my friendyesterday I'm not sure I really
feel like I did it.
It's like did I really run thisthing?
Cause I should feel I think wayworse, but I don't.

Cassie Warbeck (05:37):
Wow, um, yeah, I have so many questions and I I
just again to lay the context.
You explained the race a littlebit, but it's 135 miles through
Death Valley, california.
I think, from what I wasreading, you start at the lowest
point in North America and youfinish at the trailhead to Mount
Whitney.
And like you mentioned, 120degrees Fahrenheit up here in
Canada, I think that's 49degrees Celsius, which is crazy,

(05:58):
and the elevation is, I think,4,450 meters is what I read down
like the total elevation gain,which is insane.
And for you to sit here fourdays afterwards and tell me it
wasn't quite as hard as you wereexpecting, that's truly a
testament to like your mindsetgoing in, and you mentioned your
book and you talk a lot aboutknowing your why and as a part

(06:22):
of living intentionally, and I'mcurious like what was your why
for doing Badwater?

Joe Gagnon (06:29):
So, oh, there's a couple like, if we go back to my
sort of my core, why at thismoment in my life?
Because I'm not sure you're notright about this and I only
have one why in your lifejourney?
But my why now is, you know, Ibelieve I live to serve others,
to help them grow and develop,to reach their potential, to
feel the kind of sort of blessedlife that I have gotten to feel

(06:52):
over the past 25 years, and toserve as a role model for a way
that we can be intentional aboutour lives.
And if I'm going to do that, ifI'm going to sort of be that,
then I have to have thoseexperiences.
I can't only trade on whathappened.
You know, yeah, I've had somegreat successes, but I believe
that it has to be contemporaryas well, meaning happening today

(07:13):
.
And so, you know, shooting forthese big challenges as I go
along and continuing to setgoals into the future is really
important because it changes mybehavior.
You know I did 20 sauna sessionsleading up to the prep for this
, and average sauna temperaturewas about 194.
Um, and the first one I did was20 minutes.

(07:35):
The last one I did was 45minutes and I conditioned and I
got better and better ataccepting what it felt like to
be that hot, and so so it all tome like the why is you know a
lot of the depth of therepresentation of what I think I
should be as a person showingup in other people's lives.
If I'm going to tell you that Icould help and support you,

(07:57):
just like you would as a doctor,you would want to have done all
the studies and have theexperience before you would be
bold enough to say I could helpsomeone.
And I feel the same way,because I try and help people
develop and grow and lean intotheir potential.
The other part of the why isthat you know, if you think
about the opportunity to go outand find out how well you can

(08:20):
perform, then you want to findincreasingly harder activities
you can perform.
Then you want to findincreasingly harder activities
and as we go along, you know youraise the bar, and what bad
water is like raising the bar.
When I got in, I was not shockedbecause I didn't qualify,
because I had the qualifiedcriteria.
I was sort of shocked a littlebit that I got picked, because

(08:42):
they only pick 100 people a yearand I've had 30 are former
runners and they try and pick alot of people internationally.
So it's a small group of peoplewho get selected.
But I guess you know it's sortof like it just goes back to
like any of your listeners whosay, oh, I could never do that.
I'm literally that.
I could never do that persontoo.

(09:03):
Okay, we'd have to go back andstart, but I was as average as
they come.
I didn't start running until mymid to late forties.
I never expected when I readabout bad water 25 years ago
that I would be a person doingit or any of these kinds of
adventures.
So we can build ourselves tothis level of resiliency and
vitality and strength and powerand mindset.

(09:25):
This is just about choices.
I literally have no bettergenetics than anyone listening
to this show, just maybe alittle better discipline.
That's what I have going for me.

Cassie Warbeck (09:37):
Yeah, no, you're so humble and you've
accomplished many incrediblethings and I still have
questions on bad water.
So maybe I was so excited toask about bad water, I skipped
over, I guess, maybe some of themany incredible things and I
still have questions on.

Joe Gagnon (09:44):
Badwater, so maybe we'll go back to this.

Cassie Warbeck (09:46):
I kind of.
I was so excited to ask aboutBadwater, I skipped over, I
guess, maybe some of theintroductions here, and you
mentioned that you're an averageJoe, in your own words, and
when can you take us back tolike?
When did you make the decisionthat you wanted to start living
more intentionally Like what wasyour life before compared to
how it is now?

Joe Gagnon (10:05):
Yeah, I grew up just outside New York City um, just
sort of lower to middle incomefamily.
My dad was a social worker, mymom taught in schools and it was
just a good average, lovingfamily.
That part was wonderful.
That was the power base.
I had graduated college at apretty mediocre start, making
just about no money, pretty muchin debt, and, uh, you know the
story.

(10:26):
I was like the first week ofwork like my car was stolen, my
girlfriend broke up with me andI had to move back in my
parents' basement and so, youknow, that was this auspicious
whoa, wow, amazing start.
But then I just fell into thewhite collar world we don't talk
about it the same way, you knowa blue suit, a white shirt and
a red tie, and I just outworkedpeople for the next almost 20

(10:47):
years, traditional kind ofsoftware.
I got to be a partner in a bigfirm called Ernst Young, you
know, and then I left and wentto work at IBM and ran the
global retail business for fiveyears and I started thinking
like, is this it?
This is all I was good at waswork, like I was really good at
work, made a lot of money in myown language, whatever, you know

(11:10):
, uh, and I felt a little bitlike I was suffocating because
it didn't sort of lost my senseof humor I was.
So one dimensional friend ofmine challenged me to an arm
wrestling match.
I couldn't win.
Someone said, go for a threemile run.
And I barely made it to a mileand I was like whoa, like this

(11:31):
thing that I thought I wasdeveloping wasn't really
developing.
I was all in one dimension, onedimension only, and if it was
going to be the next 50 years,if you'd even survive that long.
And, by the way, I was notplant-based at the time, I was
still a guy who alcohol I'm notsure it was to true excess, but
it wasn't helping me either.
I don't drink alcohol in 20years, I haven't eaten meat in
20 years, and so I started thislike awakening.

(11:53):
Now it looks like I was agenius.
I think it was a little bit ofdesperation at the moment and it
was just literally one step inone pushup.
It was, and it was justliterally one step in one pushup
.
It was, you know, one littledecision that built on another
decision and I had so many no's.
Like I grew up in an Italianfamily.
We ate meat all the time, rightLike years later, my mother

(12:17):
still asked me if I wanted toeat chicken, you know, and so
that wasn't.
I was fighting the world tellingme how to live and I decided I
didn't want to live the way theworld wanted me to live.
Because I didn't want to livethe way the world wanted me to
live, because I didn't feel goodliving that way.
There was nothing about it thatmade me strong or have vitality
, and it's just fascinating tothink about, like the difference
, because this and we know thesestories, like we see the

(12:40):
stories of people at the end oftheir lives and, like you know,
all the money that I had, I'mstill unhappy or have regrets or
have this.
I'm like I didn't want to bethat person.
I want to have no regrets whenI leave this earth and I want to
have a positive impact onmyself and my family and my
community.
And I had to make all thosechanges, otherwise I think it

(13:01):
wasn't going to work out reallythat well, cause now I'm in my
God, I and and and truth be told, cassie, like well would I be
have run bad water or done theseother things or written this
book?
Absolutely not, cause whatwould I have had to say Nothing
like yeah, I know how to watchNetflix, work and go to the bar.
I don't know.
I'm not judging people by it,but that dimensionality is so

(13:23):
minimal.
It doesn't explore thepotential of the human system,
right, it just is a survivalthing.
That's it.
We're surviving.
It's as if back in the cavemandays cave person days if you had
found a lot of food and you putit in the cave and you just add
it there like you started.
That was fine.
But that's not thriving, that'ssurviving.
And I got into the thrivingmode and man am I happy I woke

(13:45):
up that's so crazy.

Cassie Warbeck (13:48):
Um, how, how old were you when you started
making these, these smallchanges that you?

Joe Gagnon (13:53):
yeah, like in my early 40s yeah, that's wild.

Cassie Warbeck (13:57):
Um and what.
What did you start with?
Um, like, what was the firstlike?
Because you talk again in yourbook about like, the power of
consistency and small steps andand compounding interest over
time of all these habits.
But what did you start with?

Joe Gagnon (14:11):
started with.
The funny answer to thequestion is a spreadsheet.
This is the ridiculous part,really.
I have kept track of what I'vedone in one spreadsheet for 25
years.
Every day I write it down wow,like, like.

Cassie Warbeck (14:23):
Are we just like a Google Excel sheet?

Joe Gagnon (14:25):
or Yep, exactly, I can show you at some point.
But what it did was it was likeI wanted to set some weekly
goals and I was a pretty busyguy kind of thing and I'm like,
oh, I probably should just putit down in the spreadsheet so I
could see what I did at the endof the week.
And I did a lot of businesstravel, so I had to have any

(14:46):
activity I was going to do wasgoing to be requiring nothing.
So this is like the pushups,pull-ups, sit-ups, running those
are things you can do anywherein the world.
Bring your sneakers and yourt-shirt, and there's really no
excuse.
And so that's what it sort ofstarted out with, which was
setting a weekly goal to eithergo to the gym or get outside
three days a week.

(15:08):
Uh, and then the other funnypart about it was I started
writing, um, because some peoplestarted getting intrigued by
what I was doing, and so, um,they said, let's just have this
like group email and I turned itit into a blog.
So the first part was likephysical activity increased.
The second was this blogginghappened and then I started

(15:31):
getting, let's say, a couple ofyears into this.
I went from doing three days aweek to four days a week to five
days a week to six days a weekto seven days a week.
I just increased every yearanother day and then I was like
I wonder if I could do two daysa week.
And then I'm writing about it.
Then I start seeing that myperformance was affected by all

(15:51):
the things I was doing.
Like I started programming howI ate and so because I found if
I just ate almost the same thing, I never get bored, by the way
I, for example, many years, butlike for five years in a row, I
had peanut butter and jelly forlunch every day.
Just worked, nothing wrong withthat yeah.
And I looked forward to it.
I was like so excited, like, ohmy God, I get to eat peanut

(16:12):
butter and jelly today.
This is the most amazing thing.
And everyone's like, oh, I wantto do that.
Like yeah, but it works.
Like this is like how you builda high performing system.
And then I realized that themeat was harder to digest and I
was like I don't really have anyinterest in there A lot of

(16:32):
other reasons why you couldstart or stop eating meats, uh,
and move to plants.
And so I kept writing and I wasmaking these changes and I
stopped.
Like the alcohol went from youknow five days a week to just
weekends.
To like why am I bothering?
Tried to ride my bike faster.
I didn't have a beer one nightand I went faster the next day.
Like, oh, maybe this is whereit's like there was a real
strong why.

(16:52):
In every one of these pieces,decisions made my performance
better, I was sleeping better,I'd wake up earlier and I wasn't
tired.
I was just like so it's not asif, you know, these are just
gratuitous changes.
You actually will feel thedifference.
And so, yeah, it was just thisincremental build and, truth be

(17:13):
told, is in the first five to 10years of this journey, no one,
you know.
But my wife knew I was doingany of this.
I was just like this guy and hedid this thing and didn't say
anything.
And that was good because Ididn't have to compare to anyone

(17:33):
.
I could just go see, even if Ishowed up for a short distance
triathlon, you know, justinvisible until later on, which
is another phase, but in thatfirst phase it was this
foundation building, buildingthe confidence.
And then, you know, I wroteabout it.
Now it's the courage to make acommitment to consistency, and
because I redefine, you know, alot of what I've worked on is

(17:54):
language that we have gets inour way.
So we say consistency isboredom.
I say consistency is mastery.
You know, I rode my bike 15,000miles one year and I said to
Anthea I think I know how toride this bike.
She's like are you kidding me?
I'm like no, I really do.
I think like, wow, I'm actuallylearning.
She's like shaking her head.
I'm like no, but you don'tunderstand.

(18:15):
It's like it's that repetitionand becomes part of who you are
like just then, are it?
And so you have to be willingto stick with it.
I don't know why we wouldn't wehave 168 hours in the week.
One of the things I ask peopleto do in my coaching world is
let's take a spreadsheet, writeSunday through Saturday on it
and write the hours of the dayand, just for one week, write

(18:38):
down what you do for all thosehours and then look at the end
of the week how you spent your168 hours and, if you're of the
week, how you spent your 168hours and if you're really
thrilled with how you spent 160hours, then just keep doing it,
and if you're not, then thinkabout what you need to do to
change, because that is yourcurrency, like right there
that's it.
You don't need any specialprivilege or anything else in

(18:59):
your life.
You just need to know howyou're going to use that time,
and so I spend my time everyweek.
There's always a little bit ofslop here and there, but it's
very intentional, and then youget different results.

Cassie Warbeck (19:11):
Yeah, Wow, that's very powerful, that
you're like how you explain itlike that, and I think like it's
just so cool to see like thejourney over so many years and
how it's not like I think peoplelook at people like you that
are like running bad water andsix marathons and six continents
and six days and all thesecrazy things, and they don't see

(19:32):
all the work and all the smallsteps that went into it for
years and years and years beforeyou got to this point, and I
appreciate you sharing that.
And then I want to talk alittle bit about.
You talk about the pillars ofhealth and how it's important to
have that foundation.
Otherwise you can't achieve allthese things.
If your sleep isn't proper, ifyour nutrition isn't proper, all

(19:52):
these things.
Can you just briefly, I guess,explain what the pillars of
health are to you?
And then there's a couple Iwant to dive into a little
deeper.

Joe Gagnon (20:02):
Yes, so I don't think there's any like mystery
here.
A phd or an md to understand,right, here's just like I like
um dr b he talks about.
You know you're going to eat 88000 pounds of food during your
lifetime.
If you don't think that matters,then you better rethink that,
like literally our system isformed by the food that we take

(20:25):
and the oxygen that we breathe,that is, in our entire body.
That's the only two things.
Of course, whatever our systemdoes is going to do, and so you
have to then think about thereare a lot of other pieces of how
, like I talk about the body asa system, the mind-body as one,
and that system, to make us intorobotic, but to understand that

(20:46):
these inputs and outputs reallymatter.
So, anyway, there's these fivepillars.
They're really simple and youshould think about them every
day.
It's nutrition, it's sleep,it's exercise, it's mindset and
it's community.
And if we could think aboutwhat are we doing for each of
those five pillars every day?
Something intentional, youintentional.
How did I eat?
How much did I sleep?

(21:06):
How was my mindset?
How was my community?
How was my exercise?
Did I move?
If you just put those, writethem on a piece of paper,
similar to the 160 hours, youcould start to see that you're
actually building the strongfoundation, because on each of
them, it wouldn't be that hardto figure out what to do.
Like you know, ultra-processedfoods we all know what they are.

(21:27):
We don't need to have a sciencebackground, right, if it comes
in a package.
Let's not even say seveningredients, which we would love
to have everything.
Have less than seveningredients, but let's say less
than 15.
If there's more than 15ingredients.
Just think if you were cookingtonight, would you put more than
15 ingredients in one dish?
Probably not, right.

(21:48):
So that means why did we needthat many ingredients?
It's because it's mostlychemicals.
It's not natural.
Okay, so how's that going tohelp us?
Why would we want to put somany chemicals in our body?
Now, sometimes, look, I have tohave a Clif Bar when I'm out on
a run and they're probablybetter than something else.
But let's really be thoughtfulabout that.

(22:10):
If we're eating, we know.
So my point there is that weknow the difference and I'm not
saying people need to eat awhole food, plant-based diet.
That's crazy and hard.
But we also shouldn't eateverything that's just in a
package.
So nutrition is like makingsome conscious choices and just
little by little.
That's like simple thing, likejust read that, don't just put

(22:30):
it into your shopping cart,right?
Exercise is about movement.
It isn't about me tellingpeople to be a runner.
This is just about movement.
I don't care if it's pickleballrunning, going to the gym doing
yoga movement, why Our systemwas made to move.
It actually thrives.
When we move, the mitochondriastart to reproduce.
Our muscles rebuild.

(22:51):
Our muscles rebuild.
Somewhere between 90 and 120days we rebuild the entire
muscular system of our body.
Everything we do would thenaffect that.
It's not like what you didtoday doesn't matter, it's like
it rebuilds.
This is why we have to keepactive.
You know, on the mindset thingoh my gosh, why wouldn't we be
our biggest fan?

(23:11):
You know, love ourselves, learnto celebrate, laugh at it.
I like to call myself a dopeevery once in a while when I do
something silly, but it's in aloving way, you know.
You know, don't look in themirror and not like what you see
.
Understand what you see andbring a strong mindset even to
the word failure, the failure inthe gyms.

(23:32):
We like failure right Becauseit makes our muscles stronger.
Failure as an entrepreneur thatI've been many times over is a
way to learn.
You know, failure is not theend, it's the beginning, it's a
growth path.
Discomfort is the same.
You know I don't get afraid of.
It's the beginning, it's agrowth path.
Discomfort is the same.
You know, I don't get afraid ofdiscomfort.
I lean into it.
I can tell people, if you are arunner, when the weather is
beautiful, run on the treadmill,and when it's really crummy, go

(23:54):
outside, like, embrace thediscomfort and the difficulty.
You'll be like so excited.
You'll be like, oh my God, it'spouring rain.
This is going to be so much fun.
Like why wouldn't we do that?
Why would we say, oh, that'sgoing to be terrible.
Like this is a mindset shift,right In the community, you know
we are.
The serotonin and oxytocin inour bodies are generated so much

(24:17):
by the interaction we have withother humans, and when those
levels are up, we feel better.
We don't know what those levelsmean to a regular person.
They're uncontrollable, right?
It's not like everyone woulddie.
All you turn on, well, just letme say, when you're feeling
really great in your community,because serotonin and oxytocin
are high, you know, and so theseneuromodulators.
All it takes, though, ishanging out with people and

(24:37):
spending time going to helpsomeone, coach someone, be there
in their lives, right, and thensleep.
You know, I have had my momentswhere I didn't sleep a lot
Sleep.
In 10,000 years of humanevolution, we haven't figured
out how to eliminate sleep aspart of who we are as humans.
It's the only time that werebuild ourselves, and we need
to do that every day.
And so you know.

(24:58):
I think that If we take theseelements, they're not that
complicated.
You don't even need a coach.
Just write the five down, havethem on your refrigerator.
What did I do for each of thesetoday?
And if I didn't do something,you don't have to be mad at
yourself.
Just explain why.
This is always about thisownership, and I think that we

(25:19):
have no one to blame and we haveonly ourselves to be excited
about.
No one to blame, and we haveonly ourselves to be excited
about.
And so you know, for me, thosefive pillars made it simple for
me to think about how I build astrong platform going forward.

Cassie Warbeck (25:36):
Yeah, it's again these things that are so often
overlooked but so important, andI try and preach about all
these.
I'm very into lifestylemedicine, preventative medicine
so you're speaking my languagehere.
Coming back to sleep, because Ithink this is something that,
when I look at someone like youthat's doing so much with their
day, that's training for theseultra endurance events, like
that is not a small commitmentthere, like there's a lot of
hours you need to be spendingdoing that.

(25:57):
How do you still protect timefor sleep?
Like I know personally, it'ssomething I struggle with.
I I could sleep an extra houror I could get my workout in
before work, and and how do?
How do you look at that and howdoes that fit into your, your
spreadsheet?

Joe Gagnon (26:12):
yeah, I probably do sleep a little less than maybe
recommended.
It's more like the six and ahalf hours than the eight hours.
I find that I get such goodsleep like I fall asleep quality
yeah between 30 seconds and 60seconds of laying in a bed.

(26:32):
I'm asleep, and other than maybeif you woke up in the middle of
the bathroom with a drink toomuch during the day water, you
know.
Uh, I sleep just so well thatand I know a lot of people they
they might get into bed and theydon't sleep as much because
they're sort of fussing a lot.
I think the reason I sleep wellis because I have balanced out

(26:53):
all these different demands inmy life and I accept what I did
for that day, so I'm not workingon anything when I go to bed.
The the second is that you knowyou can only go so long.
You start to feel it andthere's no way to really
reconcile.
You know, make it, you don'tmake up for sleep.
You have to have it beconsistent.

(27:14):
Now look during bad water.
You know I'm up for twostraight days, so that part is
an unusual circumstance.
I don't think we need to sleep10 hours.
I think that's sort of adiminishing return that we would
get.
But I would say between six andseven hours, I think, is
probably the optimal for mostpeople If you feel better

(27:36):
sleeping a little more.
I'm not an expert, I just knowthat when we're trying to
restore, we can restore enoughif it's good quality sleep.
Sleep trackers can help us knowa little bit more about it.
But yeah, I think you have tojust have cutoff.
Times is the key thing.
Even if you're getting inspiredat 11 pm at night, you know, if

(27:56):
you know you have to get up atfive, you better get to bed.
And so, because we can't sleep,probably sometimes in the
morning, it's justaccountability, the same way as
everything else.
This back to intention.
Right, intention is differentthan habits.
Habits are just what we do.
The intention connects to ourwhy, if we want to build a
strong platform, then we have toactually then have the

(28:17):
intentionality and then it fitsdifferently into our lives and
that's why sleep matters so much.

Cassie Warbeck (28:22):
Yeah, I really like that.
Thank you, that's helpful.
Coming back to the nutritionpillar, I'm curious.
I know bad water is obviously asnapshot in time here.
What you eat and how you feelduring bad water was not.
It's not a reflection of howyou eat and feel day to day, but
just from like an athleteperspective, like what did your
fueling and your trainingstrategy look like for bad water
?
Like what was your, your, whatwere your, I guess, staples?

Joe Gagnon (28:45):
um for those two days it evolved a little bit.
Um, if you, it's so interesting, you know, in under stress we
need to process a lot ofcarbohydrates, um, and so
there's sort of some forms thatare easy, like these gels, uh,
or your hydration that hashigher amounts of carbohydrates.

(29:06):
So I did use, for the firstsort of two-thirds of the race,
a lot of gels.
They're easy to take in, and sothis would be like for someone
who doesn't know it's like,imagine something like a jelly
or a peanut butter in a packetand you'd squeeze that back into
your mouth.
I had 25 of those and I startedto get really tired of them.

(29:27):
Uh, understandably, yeah, theythey.
At some point, that amount ofsugar just starts to like really
hurt.
Not hurt, hurt, but like, okay,I can't take it anymore.
The the miracle for me wasmashed potatoes, um, and that
was so simple to eat becausethey're sort of smooth and easy
to swallow.
They had salt, they had fat inthere.

(29:49):
You can make them with oliveoil and you know, uh, they
didn't.
They didn't have to be warm, itcould be cold, and there is
this one technique that we use alot is that you put the food in
your mouth and you squirt waterin and you make it into sort of
more of a mush and it's easy toswallow.

(30:09):
So I probably had ton.
I had ramen noodles um, they'reeasy to make and you can have,
you know, plant ramen noodles.
So that was good.
Um, I had, uh, what else is?
Oh, of course, you just changeit up a little bit.
There is some of thesewaffle-like cookies that are

(30:32):
made by nutrition companies forthese races, and then a lot of
fluid that had calories.
So I probably had two or 300calories per hour in my liquid
drinks.
That also helped.
So I was trying to averagethree to 400 calories per hour.
I maybe got up to 500 everyonce in a while.

(30:57):
And there are times when you'rejust disinterested in eating and
you have a crew with you andthey sort of force you to keep
eating.
They're, like you know, sort oflike just one more spoonful.
Oh, I did have applesauce.
I had some blueberries.
That was very helpful becauseto change the palate profile,

(31:17):
you bring a ton of differentchoices with you and whatever is
appealing at the moment is whatyou're willing to eat.
Um, so you know, I I wanted tohave some jelly beans.
They didn't work.
I didn't like the taste.
Then there's, like you know, sofunny, it's really what you'll
eat out.
There is anything to survivereally at the end of the day.

(31:38):
Uh, so you just don't want toend up without enough.
Oh, at one point I had tatertots, because one of the people
on the crew had a sandwich andthey were left over and I was
like, oh, those look good.
So, yeah, potatoes, highglycemic content, easy to digest
and never, ever have an issueand doesn't seem to get tired of

(32:01):
them.
So that was probably my winthis time.

Cassie Warbeck (32:04):
So funny.
Not what I was expecting tohear, but I'm always just
curious.
I want to talk a little bitmore about bad water, I guess,
and maybe we can use bad wateras an example for one of the
other things that you talk abouta lot, which is leaning into
discomfort and the growth comesfrom being uncomfortable and
that whole like philosophy, Iguess, and you've done many hard

(32:26):
things, badwater included, somaybe just share why you believe
that you have to put yourselfin the uncomfortable situations,
why this is so important.
And then I'm so curious to hearwere there any moments during
Badwater where, like, did youhave any like lows, like did you
ever think you weren't going tofinish Like I'm just, I'm so
curious.

Joe Gagnon (32:46):
Yeah, so I would.
I would say that the reason whythe discomfort matters so much
is that in some sense we'retraining ourselves for life in
somewhat of a protected world,like there's going to be
challenges in one's life, andthe more that you normalize how
you respond to that stressbecause this is like we go back
to some of the hormones andneuromodulators in our body

(33:11):
cortisol spikes under stress.
Too much cortisol creates thisstress profile that's hard for
us to resolve without sleeping.
If you can figure out how tomanage cortisol flow better, you
will then be more balanced inyour life and you won't be so
stressed.
And so discomfort helps youmanage cortisol production

(33:32):
because you have now normalizedthat and the body is not hitting
the stress response.
It's not like boom, you know,like as if some saber-toothed
tiger is chasing you, and soit's a very practical technique
to get us ready for any stresses.
You know can't pay my bills.
You know studying for an examis too hard.
You know I didn't get mypromotion, and usually we

(33:53):
overreact Like there's nothingto overreact to.
This is just part of ourjourney and, like the Navy SEALs
right, they put themselves intovery difficult situations
during training so that when ithappens in real life.
In a battle.
They don't freak out when thebullet whizzes by their head.
So for me, it's the same in allof our lives.
And why I'm considered a verycalm individual but high

(34:17):
intensity is because I have putmyself into this situation so
many times.
I'm like, yeah, this is whathappens.
It's like that's it, it's okay,you're with it, not.
Oh my God, this is ridiculousand I hate it.
And now, all of a sudden,what's happened is you've lost
control.
So that's part of why.
And then, in some sort of Iguess bizarre way, you almost

(34:41):
seek out a little bit ofdiscomfort just to keep
reminding your system of it.
You know, like, go out in ahurricane and you know it's
pouring rain or something, so,um, so that's that just when
it's happening, even when it'sjust uncomfortable, I can
respond effectively like, okay,this is crappy.
I don't like this feeling.

(35:03):
It will resolve itself, likeyour experience, like when we're
in an ultra marathon, and it'stypically anything over 30 miles
, you would say you're going toat one point.
However, I feel now, I'm notgoing to feel later.
Good to bad, bad to good, itjust flows.
No one feels perfect for anyreally long period of time.
So in Badwater the start wasbeautiful, you know, it was like

(35:27):
110, but it was nighttime, itwas somewhat, almost comfortable
, and I felt so good really,probably for through the first
60 miles of the race of the 135.
And then it was the second dayin the afternoon and we hit this
valley and it was 120 andthere's like no shade for this

(35:47):
whole race.
There's no place to hide and Icould start to feel the heat
really building up.
Then we went to this massivebig climb that took all the way
through into the night and nowI'm up for since Monday morning
and it's now Tuesday late nightand I started to feel the lack

(36:10):
of sleep and I started to.
The discomfort was more.
I couldn't really stay awakeeffectively.
I couldn't walk a straight line.
I was, I had a pacer with me,someone walked behind me and
they'd be like stop walking intothe middle of the road.
You know, stand in straightline.
I was, I had a pacer with me,someone walked behind me and
they'd be like stop walking intothe middle of the road.
You know, stand in the line.
And so I was having a reallytough go.

(36:31):
I had to slow downsignificantly because I couldn't
, I was just fighting, you know,the natural urge to fall asleep
.
I was still doing okay.
On the nutrition side, I startedto have a little bit of some GI
issues from all of the food andthe heat and you know.

(36:52):
So I just not in the TMI, but Inearly threw up two times.
Um, you know gag reflex kicksin and this is not surprising,
that that's going to happen.
And get it through, get throughthat and I would say that I was
getting a little bit frustrated, which I couldn't break the
need to sleep.
So I a couple of times sat in achair.
So it's a moving aid station.

(37:14):
You have a car that goes alongwith you.
They go up the road two miles.
You run two miles.
They support you.
This is the only way you coulddo it.
There's no other way, there'snothing there, and so a few
times I tried sleeping for fiveor ten minutes and I'd wake up
and I'd be okay for five or tenminutes and I'd start to be back
into this almost stupor and so.
But we all agreed that the mostimportant thing to do is to

(37:39):
keep moving forward becausethat's how you get to the finish
line before the cutoff.
So I kept moving forward and Iwas just sort of getting a
little tired of how bad I felt.
And then I walked off the roadinto the shoulder and I was like
, oh man, I'm really not doinggood here.
And so my crew chief said, okay, seven minutes, you can sleep

(38:00):
for seven minutes.
Seven minutes, you can sleepfor seven minutes.
Sort of hilarious.
And I did.
And when I woke up it broke.
I was like wake.
It was maybe five in the morning, sun was just about to come up,
and then from then to the endof the race felt incredible.
Like the whole thing just wentaway and I moved.

(38:21):
A lot of people had passed meduring the night.
I passed them all back duringthat day.
I did the last big climb.
I felt strong, I was eating asmuch as I had eaten during the
race and so it was knowing thatit would break, but you just
never know when.
And then you're back to sort oflike feeling great.

(38:42):
So I like great start, middle,great end.
And, yeah, that middle was,yeah, a struggle that's so crazy
, so crazy.

Cassie Warbeck (38:54):
um, one thing that stood out I was looking at
your Instagram before this and Isaw your bad water picture and
I read through your caption andone of the things that you wrote
that I really like it just Idon't know resonated, was you
wrote the real question is nevercan I it's, will I choose to
keep going, and I thought that,just like it sums it up, it's
like it's it's this choice thatyou're making every step forward

(39:15):
in this, like in a situationthat most people can't even
fathom, like how their body, howthey would feel in that moment,
that you're choosing to justkeep moving forward, keep moving
forward.
And yeah, that's so wild, sowild.

Joe Gagnon (39:27):
I have a lot of confidence in my ability to keep
going because I've done itquite a few times, and so one of
the techniques that I use in mycoaching is it's a little bit
manipulative.
So I'm sorry for this, but I dotell people that you really
can't use the word can't becausethat's like you might as well
not live anymore, because Idon't know.

(39:48):
That's stupid, because weshould at least try like don't,
can't.
And then I said, but you cantell me you won't do something.
And then people love thatbecause they move from can't to
won't like, meaning like yeah, Idecide not to.
And then move from can't towon't like, meaning like yeah, I
decide not to.
And then I said, well, how doesthat make you feel when you say
you won't do it and they'llstop?

(40:10):
And they're like I'm not sure Ilike that feeling and I think
that's this breakthrough, it'sthis sort of accountability to
yourself.
This isn't about anyone else,right?
This is just yourself.
And how do you want to feel atthe end of the day?
Do you want to feel like aquitter?
Is that what you want to defineyourself?
As you know, I don't think so.

(40:32):
Do you want to think yourselfas a victim?
What do you want to think ofyourself as a thriver?
I think these are all thechoices that we get to make.
No one's telling us this is forus to choose.
And so in those moments, I knowit's crummy, sure that's fine,
that's sort of the journey oflife, but I accept it and I know
that, if I stick it out, thatthe feeling on the other side is

(40:55):
phenomenal and it's justconstant.
You know, I wrote about in mybook.
You know there was a year Ithought I was supposed to make
partner and I didn't, and I wasso mad.
And you know anthea said to mewell then, go prove them wrong.
Like you know, don't was a year.
I thought I was supposed tomake partner and I didn't, and I
was so mad.
And you know Anthea said to mewell then, go prove them wrong.
Like you know, don't be avictim, prove them wrong.
And I did, and I made it thenext year.
You know I just keep thinkingvictim versus thriver.
You know that this is up to usand there's no measure.

(41:20):
This isn't like some absolutemeasure that it's a distance or
it's a dollar, it's a level or atitle.
It's just about ourselvesrepresenting ourselves in the
world.
That's an honor to the powerthat you have in you.
That's what I want people tothink about.
You have this incredible F1 carthat you're sitting on and you

(41:41):
put it in your garage and youdon't do anything with it.
Like why?
Why not?
Like you should?
We should Like don't go buy alottery ticket.
Invest in yourself.
You got it, you are the lotteryticket.
You can just cash it any dayyou want, and so that's why I
like to go out and do theseactivities.
And then what's really clear isI put enough work in.

(42:02):
I know the moment is there.
Then I can lean into somethingreally hard, and that's why it
probably, while it's hard, it'snever overwhelming right, it's
it's just like yeah, that's whatI did all the work for yeah,
it's not like you're jumpinginto these situations not having
prepared for it.

Cassie Warbeck (42:20):
It's like your whole life has been
intentionally leading up tothese moments so that you can
handle these moments when you'rein them.

Joe Gagnon (42:26):
And yeah, Like one thing, Cassie, for the training.
I did the sauna work, but forthe last five months every day I
ran in a turtleneck and twoshirts, even when it was 90
degrees, because I wanted to getused to being hot, and you know
those are the choices that makea difference, because it was
uncomfortable all the time.
You know who wants to do that.

(42:47):
When it's 80 degrees you'rerunning around with a turtleneck
on, but that those choices werewhat makes the difference.

Cassie Warbeck (42:54):
Yeah oh, that's so.
I, I love this.
This is like it's so, soexciting to me, um, and even
like you were explaining allthere in the book you talk about
that you're reframing techniqueand that's very much.
What you're doing is like, do Iwant to be a victim or a
thriver?
It's like, how are you viewingyourself and reframing your
story that you're tellingyourself over and over?
Yeah, I think these are, Idon't know lessons that people

(43:15):
need to like, really embrace andstart putting into action.
Can you explain your framework?

Joe Gagnon (43:23):
You talk about grace and grounded groundedness, and
I would love to just if youcould give an overview of that
yeah, I think that, in somesense, right, we almost have to
have like this multiplepersonality component of who we
are right, because it needs toshow up slightly differently
depending on the circumstance.

(43:43):
And so, you know, like thosefive pillars are around, you
know the platform, and thenthese three elements are sort of
around the persona, and so thispersona that I've liked to
build, you know, it's easy tostart off like if you're
probably, you know, not to betoo picky here, but like a white
male says, oh, I should have alot of grit, you know, you know
I'm a tough person, but that'snot enough, right, you have to

(44:07):
have so grit would beperseverance over time, the
willingness to sort of toleratedifficulty.
Having grace is reallyimportant, because there are
some times where things don't goperfectly.
Our system is not a designedperfect system.
It can work perfectly, but it'snot designed to work perfectly
right, and so you need to haveyourself grace, you need to give

(44:28):
others grace, we need to thinkabout you know, we're all
sharing in this journey andourselves, and so it's probably
pretty good to just laugh atyourself every once in a while.
Or if someone does something youknow, to give them a little bit
of grace.
Like, imagine if you were a momand you're raising two kids and
it's really tough and the kidsare fussing and you're fussing,

(44:50):
it's okay.
It's okay Like there's not,there's no drama required, just
chuckle, laugh, make it intosomething all right.
And then groundedness is abouthaving integrity.
It's about holding true to youknow, it goes all the way to
social systems and havingjustice and morality and ethics

(45:14):
and the rule of law and socialconstructs, to the integrity of
the commitments that we make andfollowing through.
It's okay not to do something,but then you know, sort of
accept that right and saysomething about it.
But when we commit to something, let's be really sure that the
commitment is actually sincere.
You know that.
We've already considered it.
You know we can't makecommitments and then sort of

(45:34):
just keep making excuses.
Then they're not, so we're notgrounded.
So if you think about thiscombination, it's an interesting
triangle of, you know, grit,that sort of that toughness and
willing to accept how the worldworks.
Grace, knowing that it's notabout perfection.
This is about acceptance andthen being grounded, which is
the foundation of all that we do.
It really is, and I wrote abouta lot in the book and gave some

(45:58):
examples.
It's an interesting another wayof for us to sit back and say,
oh, have I given myself gracerecently?
You know how is my my gritindex and am I really grounded?
I love these questions becauseif you sit by yourself like
someone says, oh, I don't knowhow to do mindfulness or

(46:18):
meditation, it'd be as simple asasking yourself those three
questions.
You know what's my joe's gritscore?
Am I giving myself grace and amI really proving and building
groundedness in my life?
That would be great mindfulnessexercise to do for oneself
simple.
We don't even need an app tofigure these things out, we
could just do them ourselvesyeah, it's just like checking in

(46:41):
.

Cassie Warbeck (46:41):
I like that actually.
It's.
It's making sure you're almostlike developing aspects of your
identity in in a way that theyall complement and help support
each other, rather than likeonly building up one, like off
it of yourself, I suppose yeah,and I think, like some people
might index high on one of thethree, and that's a great
challenge to say what am I gonnado about the other two?

Joe Gagnon (47:03):
you know, I can just say oh yeah, I'm really good at
grit, but not at grace.
Well then, maybe that's what weshould work on yeah, no, that's
fair.

Cassie Warbeck (47:11):
Um is like, do you have a, like a, I guess a
structured mindfulness practiceor a meditation practice, or is
this something you try and layer, I guess intentionally, into
your day?

Joe Gagnon (47:22):
you know, there's two things that I do.
One actually some of mymindfulness work is to work on
thinking about nothing for awhile.
I do that, well, when I'mrunning, uh, but like when I did
the sauna work, I would.
I sat there just thinking aboutnothing and in that process, um
, it's like breath work, it'sreset and it's this sort of

(47:45):
weird thing.
Like you know, the nervoussystem can reset and when the
nervous system resets, you getthis massive benefit from the
mindfulness work.
So sometimes it's a process ofquestioning, sometimes it's a
process of silence, and sittingwith the silence is a really
important skill.
If you can't get there throughquestions or activity, breath

(48:07):
work is probably the best.
Simple breath work, like justtype into Google or something
you know, box breathing, likefour breaths in, out, in, out,
and do them at you know a goodregulatory way and you're like
you will feel better, especiallyif you're in a hyper state, you
know.
And so those things are aboutthe mindfulness work that I do.

(48:29):
I realized this breath work isso powerful, even for a quick
reset.
My work on, you know, the silentbrain is really important.
And then you know the sittingwith a question.
One of the things I've beenworking on is can you have a
question that you don't try andanswer right now?
Like, just sit with thequestion for a little while.

(48:52):
This is the fact is, like we'recontrolling that monkey brain
that we get sometimes.
That just is in this.
You know, um amygdala state.
You know where we're now moreprimitive and we're not using
our prefrontal cortex, ourjudgment part of our brain, and
so I wouldn't say I'm a pureexpert, but I've mastered, I've

(49:14):
truly mastered.
You know, sometimes I call itthe zombie state, the thinking
of nothing.
Um, I got on this uh, bad water.
I did not listen to music once.
The entire nothing in my head,just the footsteps and maybe
sometimes people talking to me,and I was, you know, 40 plus

(49:36):
hours.
It's great because I neededthat stay focused and be present
, and then you know, yeah.

Cassie Warbeck (49:47):
And then you find out yeah, it's.
I like that You're not shyingaway from like a feeling, the I
don't know, the suffering, thediscomfort, everything.
You're just embracing it,you're not distracting yourself.
Again it's and I think you talkabout this too it's like
choosing to live again, usingyour words, live intentionally
versus just reactively.
Yeah, I want to talk a littlebit about, I guess, the book as

(50:12):
a whole.
Here it's called LivingIntentionally.
And who, I guess?
Who do you?
From my perspective, I thinkthe book is probably useful for
anyone to read, but was there aspecific person that you wrote
it, like a group of people thatyou wrote it for, or who is it
directed towards?
Who should read it?

Joe Gagnon (50:25):
I think there are two core profiles that I because
you know if it's for everyonesort of seems like it's for no
one sometimes.
That's why the business personin me is you know who your
customer is.
The two profiles the firstprofile sort of the the baby
boomer who was on autopilot formost of their lives and now

(50:47):
they're finding a significantshift.
Maybe they're retiring, maybetheir health is failing, maybe
they're not finding the purposeand joy in life anymore because
their kids are gone or theirlife is different and they're
just lost.
Health is really a challenge atthat point because in some
sense we naturally decline, butwe can mitigate that by

(51:09):
instigating.
So I like that group to thinkabout stepping back and starting
with what is my purpose?
And first chapter is defineyour why.
The second is you know, definethese pillars and start to use
them.
The third would be you know,embrace the challenge.
And the fourth is masteringreflection.
That first section of the bookis the foundation.

(51:29):
The second group is sort of theGen Z 25 to 35-year-olds who
are sort of not so excited aboutthe future, who are
disappointed with the waysociety is going, aren't having
kids, don't like the waypolitics are, you know, have

(51:50):
lost sort of excitement for thepossibilities, but they are our
future and they need to build abetter world.
If they don't like what it is,then I want to give them a
framework for them to thinkabout, and so that first section
of the book is great foundation.
Second section of the book isreally about this whole thing of

(52:10):
discomfort.
You know it's from failure tofuel.
It's about then, you know,finding meaning through
suffering and then go big or gohome and in that you start to
realize that it's okay to feelthis way, um, and I feel, uh, a
big responsibility to the next.
This is sort of like this isskipping a generation kind of

(52:33):
feeling, and to get to that, Ithink it's really important that
some of us spend time rolemodeling some behavior and
providing some structure forthem, because I don't know where
it comes from.
You know, family units are sortof not as well situated as they
were at.
Work doesn't do anything for us, religion is sort of out the
window, seems like community andsociety are just becoming

(52:54):
selfish, like we just need topull back here, like we can't
just let this thing go away, andso I think that group there's a
lot of them who would veryquickly be intentional and
probably have a higherprobability than anyone.
But they need some support.
So those are my two sort ofprimary audiences for the book.

Cassie Warbeck (53:13):
Perfect, yeah, no, I think there's quite a few
people that would be listeningto this podcast.
That would fall into either ofthose categories.
When is it released officially?

Joe Gagnon (53:22):
Yeah, so it's coming out August 4th.
It'll be on Amazon everywhere.
We'll be out in some smallbookstores around the country as
well.
Us it'll be available in Canada.
The cool thing about publishingon Amazon now is it does this
on-demand printing, so the bookis available in 10 different
geographies, which is so cool,and so then it's also if you

(53:47):
want to be environmentallyconscious, you know, just print
when you need it.
Of course, there's the Kindleversion, so it's an e-book also,
so that's another way to get it.
You know, after August 4th,it'll be available there and
then through my website website,in addition to that which is
the highperformancelifenet whereI talk about my coaching

(54:10):
business.
I have a lot of things going on.
I run a software company, Ihave a coaching business, I do
the ultra-marathoning, I'mwriting.
I actually have my idea for thenext book I had written the
last one in 2018, and so now Ihave three ideas coming out of
this and I feel really stronglyabout my responsibility to make

(54:39):
information available to peopleif they want.
I believe we all have agency.
I don't want to make it hard ifyou want to seize that agency
to live differently.
I don't want to make it so hardLike, yeah, I got sort of
fortunate, I had 25 years tofigure a lot of things out, and
maybe everyone doesn't get 25years.
You know the other part I wrotein the front of the book.

(55:00):
I wrote a preface that said youknow, in a world of
accelerating technologicaladvancements, how should we show
up?
Does living intentionallyreally still matter?
And I think it matters morethan ever, you know.
And so um, and then I don'tknow if video, but you know
there's.
This is the book.
Uh, I have this, yeah, somewhatboth peaceful and, uh, you know

(55:24):
, evocative image that says youknow, this is how we should feel
.
You know, intentionally enablesuccess, fulfillment and growth.
You know, the part that I hadthe hardest time with is when I
tell someone you can feeldifferently and they say, well,
I don't know what that means,and so telling someone what a
feeling is like is hard toexplain, but what I hope people

(55:44):
feel is the enthusiasm.
I wrote a lot of stories in thisbook and I made a lot of
references to other smart peopleto give sort of support for
this journey.
What I can tell you for sure isthat I didn't know it could
happen and it did, and it willhappen for everyone who goes on
this path.
It is no question, because thisis the way our human system

(56:08):
works, and so you just need toturn these things on that are
just sitting there waiting foryou to do that.
And so you know, whatevermagical life you want to have,
like it's there, a little bit ofpatience, yeah, sure, like so
what?
Where are we rushing to?
I can meet a 24 year old.
This is want to be a CEO.
I'm like, well then, what then?

(56:29):
Like don't, don't defineyourself by a title.
You know, think about yourselfas who you are, right, you know.
You know you're an explorer, oryou're a creator, or you're
something like don't define justby what you have.
You know the utility of moneydeclines over time.
You know power with people, notpower over people.

(56:51):
This is the part that I feel Idon't know if I could be more
blessed to have found myself tothis place, because, you know,
someone said to me why do youlive this way, joe?
And I'm like if you could feelthis good, why wouldn't you?
That is sort of the answer.
You know, like, yeah, this isit.

Cassie Warbeck (57:13):
I like that.
Um, I am going to.
I would like a request for you.
Um, so, everyone listeningright now, if they're, and I
guess, inspired by what you'resaying, they want to start
living more intentionally today,like what's one challenge,
what's one place to start, wherewould you, what you tell them
to go do?
That's uncomfortable, I'mcurious.

Joe Gagnon (57:35):
Yeah, this is the most uncomfortable possible,
which is one hour a day foryourself, cause everyone says to
me one hour is too much, so Icould say 15 minutes.
But like, if you want to beuncomfortable, like, just make
an hour for yourself every day.
Like that is not selfish, right?

Cassie Warbeck (57:52):
that's about thriving and do what, though,
and like anything for yourself?

Joe Gagnon (57:57):
anything that would be for you.
Yeah, maybe five pillars right,but if you thought about that,
I meet a lot of people who tellme they can't do that right.
They can't why I have all theseother obligations.
I'm like your obligation is toyourself first, and then to the
rest of the world second, and soit is uncomfortable.

(58:18):
It actually really forcespeople to step back and say why
can't I do that?
Because I had to do that myself.
Because I had to do that myself.
I had to do that.
I had little kids when I startedon this path, and I knew,
though, that I wasn't going toshow up well if I didn't make
that choice, and so, if an houris too much, start with 15

(58:38):
minutes like 15 minutes.
We have to be able to do that,and if people in your life are
not supportive of that, then youshould wonder why they're in
your life.
Are they there for you?
We're not here to change anyone.
We're not here to tell peoplewhat to do, and I think that is
the start that unlockseverything, because that's the

(58:59):
first step towards agency andempowerment and intention, and
so I would challenge you all tofeel that serious about your own
journey that you're willing tomake that commitment to your own
life improvement.

Cassie Warbeck (59:15):
Okay, I like that.
I have one more kind of, Iguess, logistical question about
your use of your.
This is more of my owncuriosity, but the use of your
spreadsheet and the way you goalset and do you set goals, like
how, how do you approach it?
Do you set goals every week, um, is it monthly?
Is it a daily reflection, likeI'm?

(59:36):
I'm just curious.
I know maybe your way doesn'tapply to everyone, but yeah,
it's a good question.

Joe Gagnon (59:41):
The two things.
One is annual goals.
I think annual goals are greatbecause they force
accountability over a longperiod of time.
They create that consistency.
And the second isactivity-related goals.
You know, like something'sgoing to happen, like it's easy
with races to say that, or thebook or something else, where

(01:00:03):
you put a time horizon that's ashort, somewhat time and then
you build a plan to get to that.
So I have the, that overarching, and then I have the sort of
the, the sub goals that fitunderneath it, and so just all
of it.
Then my behaviors change toalign to that, you know, and
back to like.
You know, I hadn't done 20 saunasessions before I signed up for

(01:00:23):
Badwater, so my behaviorliterally changed for that.
You know, with the book itchanged my morning routine.
I would get up and make a cupof coffee and I would sit and
write for an hour and a half,and that was different than what
I did otherwise, excuse me.
So I think that that's how I dothe goal setting.
So the mini and the macro, andthat way, you know, and it's fun

(01:00:46):
, I'll tell you, if you startwriting it down, it really
actually does click into.
You know, dopamine is amotivator.
It's not a goal setter, but itdoes keep you thinking about
that and so it stays focused.
And if you weren't to writesomething down someday, you'd be
like huh, wonder why I didn't.
It's like all of a sudden youhave an accountability partner

(01:01:09):
and they don't need to be at theother end of a text message.
But you can have that too.
So mine was like came with meeverywhere that's cool.

Cassie Warbeck (01:01:19):
I might try your approach.
Might start a spreadsheet.

Joe Gagnon (01:01:22):
I love that no one ever has to see it either.
This is just like literally allof the stuff, I think.
What's so interesting, cassie?
Like I think I'm just a regularguy.
I think we all sort of are in asense right, you know, um, but
that spreadsheet created what Iam in a sense right.
It's not like wasn't um a minorshift, and so whatever I

(01:01:46):
accomplished was related to that, which is another one of these
like, wow, I didn't needanything too fancy, I didn't
have to spend money on a coachevery month or join this, you
know, and so I like that ideahow much power we really have,
uh, in the way that all thesystems can work yeah, I think

(01:02:07):
we need to give ourselves more,more credit there.

Cassie Warbeck (01:02:10):
Um, yeah, no, that's uh, I love that, thank
you.
Thank you very much for sharing.
Um.
I always uh put this out there.
If anyone wants to connect withyou, if they want to follow you
, how where do you um send themto you?
I'll put all the links in theshow notes yeah, yeah, yeah, I.

Joe Gagnon (01:02:24):
And, until it gets too nutty, if anyone even emails
me, I actually reply because Icare so deeply about people.
My email address is j, theletter into my last name,
ganyon232 at gmailcom.
I'm on Substack.
If anyone uses that, it's agreat newsletter for free.
You can get my daily blog underJoe curious, cause I think we

(01:02:44):
all should be curious.
Um, my website is the, you know, high performance lifenet, and
then I'm on Instagram at thehigh performance life.
Um, those are the best placesto follow me.
Uh, I'm on LinkedIn under Joegetting young.
Uh, and so I.
I am am not the big like.
I'm not posting five times aday.

(01:03:05):
I try and post things meaning,but I do write every day.
So if you want to read my oneparagraph a day, I would love
for you to subscribe to the substack and then you could see
what I write about each day.
That was just fun I like that.

Cassie Warbeck (01:03:17):
I might do that.
Thank you, I'm going.
I'll put all those links beloweveryone you can look and click
and follow.
Joe um, thank you so much forbeing here.
I've it's been so cool hearingabout your experience with bad
water.
Again, I love that the timingworked out for this.
I feel like I was very lucky toschedule you today.
Um, and yeah, I'm, I'm inspired.
I can't wait to.
I've read some of the book.
I didn't have a chance to readit all, so I'm excited to like

(01:03:38):
read more of it and actuallyknow who you are to put with it
now.
So thank you so much.
I really appreciate your time.

Joe Gagnon (01:03:50):
Yeah, thanks for listening.
Thanks to all of your listeners.
I hope you find your path toliving intentionally and have a
magical life and a beautifultime together here.

Cassie Warbeck (01:04:00):
That's it for this episode of here All Day.
If you found it valuable, thebest way to support the show is
to subscribe, leave a review orshare it with someone else who
would enjoy it.
Don't forget to check out theshow notes for all the resources
mentioned and links to connect.
Thanks for listening and untilnext time, keep training hard,
eating plants and showing off.