September 21, 2022 • 25 mins
Creating Space. These two words encompass SO MUCH of the world around us. Spaces can be interpersonal connections, physical rooms, interactive environments, and so much more. This week, lighting and production designer John P Marovich shares with us all about the spaces he creates and curates.
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Joy Blue (00:10):
Welcome to Here We Are.
The podcast where we celebratethe beauty of being a nerd by
learning about nerdy things fromfellow nerds.
I'm your host, Joy Blue.
Today's" guest and I have ablossoming friendship happening.
It all started when he messagedme on Facebook and said, hi, We
need to be friends and here areseveral reasons why." And of
(00:32):
course I said, yes.
John and I are both involved inthe live event industry, we're
both nerds, and we both lovestorytelling.
And I am super excited to beable to showcase John's prowess
to you today.
So without further ado, here'smy friend John P Marovich to
talk with us about creatingspace:
John P Marovich (00:54):
My name is John Marovich.
I'm a production lightingdesigner for work.
Live in Las Vegas, Nevada.
I am from Chicago originally.
So went, yeah, I went to schoolat DePaul came up through the
theater program there.
Grew up as a theater kid andthen stumbled into the weird
world of corporate theater thatuh, that you and I find
(01:16):
ourselves in.
So, yeah, completely not byplan.
I was not even aware that thatwas an industry.
I was working at the House ofBlues in Chicago for a few years
after I graduated from school,figuring out what I wanted to
do.
I thought for sure I wanted togo and light bands and live on a
tour bus.
I.
And and then a corporate showcame into the space one day and
helped them out.
And they actually offered me aposition on the next show that
(01:39):
they had the following week andjust jumped into this weird
thing that I had no idea what itwas.
Joy Blue (01:44):
That's so cool.
You just followed yourcuriosity.
John P Marovich (01:47):
A hundred percent.
That's what it's all about.
Joy Blue (01:49):
Love that.
Okay.
So what do you wanna nerd outabout today?
John P Marovich (01:53):
So I would love to nerd out about creating
space.
As a designer, it's one of thethings that I get to do, which
is fun.
And I think that we can talkabout it a few different ways
that will be a lot of fun forthe two of us.
Cuz I think you and I are gonnahave very different perspectives
different yet similarperspective, just based upon the
seats that we sit in when we'reon show site.
Joy Blue (02:15):
Correct.
Okay.
So let's start at the beginning.
Go ahead and define what youmean by space.
And then what is the action thenof creating space?
John P Marovich (02:26):
Sure.
So, space in the first part isthe actual space where we're
going to have our show.
I think people don't necessarilyrealize when they walk into a
large convention or somethinglike that.
That probably hours before theygot there, that was an empty
room that still had bar Mitzvawine spilled on the carpet from
the night before.
And the amount of work that goesinto taking that space and
(02:50):
transforming it into this sortof magical theater space with
all the bells and whistles andall of those things where it's a
space that we create for them tobe able to tell their story or
deliver their message.
Joy Blue (03:03):
Yeah.
So it's interesting to me thatyou're using the word theater.
I haven't put that label on it.
I've just put it as like event,but you're right.
Everything we are doing istheater.
We are following a script tosome point.
There is like, you have to beable to see, you have to be able
to like have a stage.
(03:23):
There is a set design.
Like all of those things do fit.
That is fascinating.
John P Marovich (03:29):
So I use theater in the terms of our
craft.
One of the other things that Iuse is storytelling.
I'm not insinuating in any waythat somebody that's getting up
there and talking about theirnew corporate rollout or model
or new product that they'retelling stories as in fiction in
any way.
I use storytelling just in thatwe're connecting them with
storytelling tools.
(03:51):
They bring us to the table tohelp deliver their message.
And that's what we do reallywell.
How do we sort of create thisweird space, be it virtual or
physical or some hybrid of thosetwo things where they can take
their message and translate it,sort of scale it up for the
masses.
Because it's different thansitting around typing an email
(04:12):
or sitting around a boardroomtable or something like that.
It's a completely differentparty once you're addressing a
crowd of a thousand people inthis weird space.
There's all these other thingsthat you don't have to think
about when it's just eightpeople around a table.
Joy Blue (04:26):
right, right.
Okay.
So when did you get started withcreating spaces?
Like when did you realize whatyou were doing was creating a
space?
When did it go from just like,yeah, I'm doing some flashing.
Here's a lighting term,everybody, some bally-hoo's.
Um,
John P Marovich (04:43):
Or Flash and Trash,
Joy Blue (04:44):
Ooh, flash and trash.
When did it go from justoperating to like actually this
is a space that I have agencyin.
John P Marovich (04:54):
Oh, I like that.
So.
I think probably after I focusedmy 14th thousand stage wash.
And it you start to, to findother things, right?
So, it's a little bit formulaicin how we come into the room.
The client approaches us with anidea and we sort of find out
what they want to do if there'sentertainment, components,
(05:16):
dinner things, all the logisticbits of it.
And then we we have to gothrough the process of renting
gear and things like that.
So it's all very literal interms of creating space there.
I don't think it was until laterin life when I realized the
importance of that space.
That it's not just a bunch ofgear poured into a space that we
(05:38):
then use to put on a technicalpresentation.
Even though I was a proud memberof AV club all through high
school and, we were all thosegeeks.
It's so much more than that.
There's so much sort ofphilosophy to storytelling tools
where we can help people.
They come to us with an idea,but they don't necessarily know
how to translate it.
(05:58):
So to, to make sure that we'rehelping them so that it is it's
appropriate.
And we all share responsibilityin that.
And that's the part that I like.
It's more than just those gears.
Like when we're on show site,you have a very particular role.
I do.
Everybody does.
Typically they look out to frontof house, the control area in
front of the drape where theaudience is, and they're gonna
(06:20):
see probably three, maybe fourpeople.
It's gonna be the two of us.
There's gonna be a sound guy,even though we usually wanna
stick that guy in the back.
Just kidding.
I love sound guys.
Uh, And maybe a producer is outthere with them.
What they don't know is the armyof people that are backstage and
just the amount of energy thateach and every one of us brings
into that space.
(06:41):
We bring our craft, but I thinkthat we all sort of have a
responsibility to, to comecorrect like we have to bring
the right energy into that spaceso that, that presenter, we have
to gain their trust, make surethat they know that they're in
good hands.
And then we can sort of alldeliver that message together.
Joy Blue (06:57):
Yeah.
I think the first time Irealized that there was power in
it was back when I used to playbass at church.
So.
I remember we, we were playingfor this well known artist and
she said something that was bothlike eye opening and also like,
oh, uh oh, she's like, like,what we're doing can be very
(07:20):
emotionally manipulative.
So like, we need to hold spacefor this well.
And I think a lot of what we doin event creation in this
corporate world is like whatyou're saying, we are creating a
safe environment for theclient's message to be heard in
the best way possible.
(07:40):
What does that look like fromyour end?
Because you're not justlighting, right?
You're more
John P Marovich (07:44):
No I'm not just lighting.
I do production design sort of,it's a.
Broad spectrum of what I do.
I do some work in the aerospacetechnology and pharmaceutical
field.
All of which are behind severalthousand pages of non-disclosure
agreements, I'm sure you're nostranger to.
So, can't necessarily talk a lotabout those, but some of the
(08:05):
other fun projects that I get towork on, um, Every Thanksgiving,
I design the halftime show forthe Dallas Cowboys.
So I work as the production andlighting designer on that.
So we have the stage itself, butthe other components of that are
getting it on and off of thefield.
I was shocked to find out as anon-sports ball person,
(08:25):
apparently there's this gamethat happens on time of the show
or on either side of the show.
I know.
So we have to get this thingonto the field in a designated
amount of minutes and off of thefield in a designated amount of
time.
Getting it off the field iswhere it gets tricky, because if
we are late for that we'recutting into network air time
(08:48):
that somebody has paid a lot ofmoney for.
Joy Blue (08:51):
Yeah.
John P Marovich (08:51):
So a lot of fines could potentially happen
there.
But that's a really fun one.
One that happened a little bitcloser to you, the event isn't
happening any longer, but theChi-Town rising new year's event
that happened in Chicago withthe big star that went up the
side of the building.
I designed the star with anotherdesigner, Chris Wren.
Joy Blue (09:08):
That's really cool.
John P Marovich (09:09):
That was a lot of fun, a lot of really unique
challenges with that one workingoutside and through the
elements.
And I had already moved to LasVegas at that point.
So I had become a giant baby tothe cold.
So that was never gonna happenin my head, but it happened
after about three weeks.
Joy Blue (09:24):
you gotta do you gotta do.
John P Marovich (09:25):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (09:26):
With both of those, you create gathering spaces for
memories to be had.
that's what the star rising is.
That's a gathering space.
That's a marking of time.
That's a memory people havetogether.
Like what does this mean to you?
It's not just a line item onyour resume.
John P Marovich (09:42):
It's not at all.
No, it's actually a hugeresponsibility.
And that's, it's easy for us tobecome jaded, I think, because
we do tens of shows a year.
Typically I'm involved in 30 to40 projects a year.
It can never be just anothershow.
I think that it's important toremember that for those new
year's events, you're marking amoment in time that's gonna be
(10:03):
captured in photographs andmemories.
And it's you're becomingingrained in people's lives.
It's a huge thing.
One of the other things that Ilove to do that I get to
participate in sometimes isdesigning activations.
So in what we do, an activationis a space where people have got
props or something like that.
I mean, I guess the best, like agood example of that would be
(10:23):
like a photo booth or somethinglike that people can take
pictures and be silly around atheme or something like that.
But I've had a chance to do someof that, that it integrates a
lot of different technologycomponents and things like that.
That creates a really funopportunity because we get to
play with people, but they don'tnecessarily realize that we are
playing with them.
So we get to come in and testeverything and figure it out.
(10:47):
And whatever that is, however wewant people to interact with
that space, we've run a thousanddifferent scenarios.
So by the time that they get toit and are coming in there and
they get to play, they get to bethe kids, it's really great to
sit back and watch because I canliterally stand next to you
while you're doing it, and youhave no idea that I was involved
with the setup in any way.
(11:08):
So I feel like I can boil downwhat we do to a certain extent
is sort of creating really coolforts for grownups.
There's still that sort ofchildlike play, I think, if
we're doing it correctly thatcomes out and gives people a
chance to dismiss reality for aminute.
Reality is really rough rightnow.
(11:28):
So I think any opportunity thatwe can create in a safe space
for people to walk away fromeverything that's terrible in
the world for a couple of hoursand just receive whatever this
new message is, it's prettygreat.
I mean, I think you could arguethat it's church in some ways.
It's sort of creating a sacredspace where people can come in
and just be a community andexperience something that's
(11:52):
special.
And then we all leave and that'sforever ingrained in us.
Joy Blue (11:56):
That's like the embodiment of what books are to
so many people.
I
John P Marovich (12:01):
True.
Joy Blue (12:01):
But what you're talking about is creating spaces
where people can share theseexperiences together.
John P Marovich (12:06):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (12:07):
And it's also documented.
John P Marovich (12:08):
Sometimes it is, Sometimes it isn't.
At some of these events, it'sreally interesting now that
locking people's phones up hasbecome a little bit of a norm.
We do that for a multitude ofdifferent reasons.
Sometimes we're unveiling a newproduct or something like that.
So all of those photo images andeverything like that are
embargoed, they can't bereleased for a certain amount of
time and the best way to makesure that somebody doesn't
accidentally sneak a picture andtext it to somebody.
(12:31):
Is just to take everybody'sphones away.
And it does a thing.
I think it's different.
When I was coming up in theaterand things like that, I mean,
you could bring your film camerato a show and shoot a picture.
You probably weren't bringing avoice recorder of any kind, but
it's a different thing now thateverything is documented.
So taking that away and justforcing people to be present.
(12:54):
Is such a cool thing.
We just we're there.
You're connecting your energyand there's no distractions.
It's just one thing that we'reall focusing our energy on.
It's a pretty magical thing whenit happens.
Joy Blue (13:07):
Well, it sounds like you're creating space for wonder
to happen.
John P Marovich (13:10):
If we do it right.
Joy Blue (13:11):
I mean, that's what got me into production in the
first place was watching theseproductions happening and
feeling that wonder inside ofme.
And then that curiosity led to,I wonder how that's done.
And then now that I know howit's done, I'm pretty jaded and
it's more of a struggle to findwonder.
But like what you're telling meis you're creating spaces for
(13:33):
play and you're creating spacesfor wonder.
John P Marovich (13:37):
It's true.
I mean, in the physical sense wedo that, but I think the other
part to, to talk about there increating space is maybe we use a
different term and we'll call itholding space.
Um, The way that you and I mightinteract as collaborators in
that space.
It's really easy for person tocome in and just take over the
entire conversation and not letanybody else speak at that
(13:57):
table.
But you really only get theproduct of that one person when
you do that.
So when you're in a group and Ithink we're lucky in that we get
to collaborate with similar,almost always the same people.
Sometimes there's players thatchange out or something like
that, or it's people you see ona regular basis, the show
happens every year, it kind ofbecomes a trusted family.
(14:20):
I think that all of us inproduction really became aware
of just how important our showfamilies were during COVID, when
we didn't see all these peopleon a regular basis.
And in some cases, those peopleare as important as our actual
family.
Joy Blue (14:34):
Yeah.
That's a whole different type ofcreating space.
Is learning to choose family inthe places you're at.
Like I haven't been on a lot ofrecurring shows, so almost every
show I'm meeting a whole bunchof new people.
And a wise producer once told mejoy, start with just trusting
that everybody can do their job.
John P Marovich (14:54):
Yeah.
Believe somebody is awesomeuntil they give you a reason to
think otherwise.
So I think just the act of doingthat is, is setting them up to
win.
I think that's a big part of, ofbeing a good part of a team is
setting everybody up to win.
We have to champion each othercuz nobody else is gonna do it.
Joy Blue (15:10):
Right.
And all of that creating spaceis happening behind the scenes
so that we can then create aspace for people to show up on
that stage and share theirmessage.
It's so meta.
John P Marovich (15:21):
Yeah.
It's all connected.
I mean, everywhere you look,there's design, people are
creating something around us,every single thing.
Whether it's the doorknob youuse to get in the room, the fork
you're eating with, or the spaceyou're having a show in.
Somebody has labored over thatand made sure that that works
properly for you to be havingyour moment with it.
Joy Blue (15:42):
So that comes back to design thinking.
Are you familiar with designthinking?
John P Marovich (15:46):
I would love to hear specifically a little bit
more about the term.
Joy Blue (15:49):
It's a whole process of thinking.
It's all about fast iterations.
So you start with what is theproblem and who is the problem
impacting and then engaging withempathy and saying, what do you
actually need?
And then engaging with thosepeople and saying, is this
actually the problem?
And like being as clear aspossible about what the problem
is, and then starting to do veryfast iterations and
(16:11):
brainstorming.
And it's a whole nother type ofcreating and holding space for
not having to have the rightanswer, but creating an
opportunity to truly empathizeand to truly move toward how can
we fix this together?
I love this.
John P Marovich (16:29):
Absolutely.
And I love that term.
I wanna dig a little bit deeperinto that.
You've, in that term describedwhat collaboration should look
like.
But so much of that is thosesort of quick iterations of
things.
For me, the words that I wouldput around that would be
creating space to play.
Because I think that is onething that people lose.
It's easy for things to becomeformulaic.
(16:51):
And just this factory wherewe're just pumping stuff out.
And one of the statements that Ihate to hear is we do it that
way because that's the way we'vealways done it.
Where we've never challengedwhat the process is or why it
looks even the way it does.
And at some point that'sgenerations down the road and we
(17:11):
have no idea why the hell we'redoing anything.
We're just doing it cuz that'sthe way we've always done it.
Holding that space for us toplay as collaborators is great.
I feel like sometimes I lookover at the show caller or the
stage manager, I have a momentof sympathy because I feel like
you're like, I'm just trying toland this into a spreadsheet.
What is somebody talking aboutright now?
(17:33):
But I think the really good onesgive us that little bit of time
to riff on something and we,throw that idea and everybody
just puts cool stuff on it.
And then, we have thatopportunity once we've built it
up to this big, crazy thing tothen go in and refine and pare
it down to exactly what it needsto be in order to tell the story
properly.
Joy Blue (17:52):
Yeah.
And that's something I loveabout lighting, specifically.
I didn't really tune into thepower of lighting as a
storyteller until a film classin college where we started
breaking down how does colorimpact this scene?
So much of color is also playingwith your unconscious bias.
(18:15):
So red tends to be more ominousand evil.
Blue is like, oh, here I am.
The good guy.
Green's like, let's go champion,let's move.
But in a corporate space,lighting is so much more limited
in my perception than in like aconcert space or in a film
space.
(18:35):
How do you approach storytellingwhen, like you said, like you're
focusing another stage wash,which for my non-techie friends,
stage wash is the white lightthat is thrown onto the stage,
washing it in light.
So you can actually see theperson.
It's essential, and yet that's avery monotonous task of focusing
who knows how many lights cuzevery
John P Marovich (18:54):
true.
Yeah.
It depends on how large thestage is for that particular
show.
But it's one of those thingswhere if we do it correctly,
nobody knows that we've done itbecause nobody thinks about
light.
It's something that we can'ttouch.
It's not tangible.
People don't necessarily knowhow it's affecting them.
But nearly every moment of yourlife, it's having a huge impact
(19:15):
on you.
Um, And it's in the corporatesetting, it's particularly
challenging.
You bring up a really good pointin if you're looking at theater,
dance, rock and roll, or musicin general, there's a lot more
freedom there.
Or we can say this song makes mefeel blue and we can go with
these great sort of colorpalettes and things like that.
(19:37):
That gets restricted a littlebit when we're doing a show for
one company whose colors mightbe red and yellow, but their
competitors colors might be blueand green.
So the second blue or green hitsthat stage, everybody's yelling.
They think that it's, thecompetitor colors are there and
that kind of thing.
So that does present a littlebit of a challenge.
(19:59):
For the most part, when thereare corporate speakers up on
stage, somebody representing thecompany, a lot of times we'll
pull that color story from theslide decks that have been
approved by lawyers andeverybody in the mix.
Yeah.
So we'll pull a lot of the colorstory from that, but there are
moments to break away from that.
(20:20):
A lot of times, if there's anentertainment component, that's
a time when we get to break therules.
Sometimes they'll do a danceopening or something like that.
So those are some opportunities.
But there's other subtle thingsthat we can do that give us
opportunities to sort of havefun and to drive that room.
When we're walking people uponto the stage, you know,
typically you'll call for thatbally-hoo, and a play on, and we
(20:42):
play some fun music and get theaudience all pumped up.
A really great thing happens.
And this is, it's a memorablemoment for me in my career.
The first time that I threwlights out into the house and
they sprayed all over theaudience and everybody screamed.
It was like this like bonerattling moment for me where
(21:04):
it's like, I did that with thisone handle.
I mean, granted, there mighthave been somebody famous on
stage, but as far as I wasconcerned in that moment, it was
this one handle that made thelights fly up into the audience
and all the kids went crazy.
Joy Blue (21:18):
Yep.
John P Marovich (21:18):
Just the power in that moment is so much fun.
So It's this kind of like finebalance between you have to make
sure that the cameras haveenough light and there's all
these sort of technical boxesthat we have to check, but then
there's also just making surethat people are comfortable.
A lot of weird things happen inour space.
It could be a motivationalleader where people are having
(21:41):
to stand up and do things.
And I know from some of yourother podcasts, maybe you're not
super excited about dancing inpublic uh, finger dancing.
I believe you, you referred to,but in that moment I can take
the house down or something thatto create that space for people
where it's like, you know what,I'm dancing in the dark and it
(22:01):
doesn't matter.
People, they aren't seeing me,or there's enough lights flying
around that people are payingattention to that and not paying
attention to Me.
Joy Blue (22:10):
That is why I dance in the tech booth occasionally
because I'm in the back of theroom.
John P Marovich (22:15):
when
Joy Blue (22:16):
looking at me.
I'm in
John P Marovich (22:18):
you and I land that first show together,
Joy Blue (22:20):
Oh, to be golden.
John P Marovich (22:21):
We'll dance.
It'll be great.
We don't have to tell anybody.
I'll make lights go in theireyes.
Joy Blue (22:27):
Fine.
I do the Cupid shuffle that'sabout it.
John P Marovich (22:29):
Yep.
I got that one.
Joy Blue (22:30):
And the homeschool dance.
John P Marovich (22:31):
I don't know the homeschool
Joy Blue (22:33):
Yeah.
I make it up every time.
So it's fine.
John P Marovich (22:34):
Oh, okay.
That's fair.
Joy Blue (22:36):
Okay.
So for, So for people who aren'tpaying attention to lighting,
and who aren't paying attentionto lighting as a storyteller.
Next time they walk into a largeenvironment, what do you wish,
or what do you hope, what do youencourage them to look for that
they might not have seen before?
John P Marovich (22:51):
Look up from your phone.
I would say, just be present inthe moment.
Somebody has designed that spacefor you.
It's an opportunity just to soakit in.
I think right now we're sodistracted by so many things.
If we just take a moment andjust experience.
Um, that lighting could beanything that could be lighting
that somebody has created foryou, but that could also be the
(23:12):
lighting that you walk into whenyou walk out your front door.
Just soak it in.
Because whether you know it ornot, it's having a huge impact
on your life.
You know, People talk aboutseasonal depression and things
like that.
And you mentioned the color red.
Once you start to, to talk aboutwhat that does to the body, the
fact that if you're in red lightlong enough, you're gonna become
more aggressive and you're gonnabecome hungry.
(23:34):
And it's connected to your bodyin all these different ways that
people aren't aware of.
So I would say.
Look around, be part of it.
Be present.
Joy Blue (23:44):
That is beautiful.
Thank you so much for your time.
And for sharing this.
I am so excited for when we getto create a space together
sometime somewhere.
John P Marovich (23:54):
Yes, we're gonna make it happen.
Joy Blue (23:56):
So Here We Are! My hope for you walking away from
listening to this interview isthat you not only learned more
about production nerdiness, butalso about how the environments
around us are often extremelywell thought through so that we
can create beautiful experiencesfor those around us.
(24:17):
As John said, take some time toput down your devices.
Soak in the stories around you.
Ask questions about whysomething is the way it is.
Be curious.
And pay attention to what lightdoes around you.
I loved spending this time withyou, John.
And I'm looking forward tocreating more spaces with you
soon.
(24:37):
If you've got a flavor of nerdthat you want me to celebrate, I
would love to hear all about it.
So go ahead and email me atherewearethepodcast@gmail.com
and tell me everything.
And I love taking time to sitand make space for nerd to be
celebrated.
If you really liked this podcastand want to financially support
what I'm doing, head on over topatreon.com, search for Here We
(24:58):
Are The Podcast and sign up forone of the many beautifully
written support tiers that I'mreally proud of.
So until next time.
Don't forget that curiosity winsand the world needs more nerds.
Welcome to Here We Are.
The podcast where we celebratethe beauty of being a nerd by
learning about nerdy things fromfellow nerds.
I'm your host, Joy Blue.
Today's" guest and I have ablossoming friendship happening.
It all started when he messagedme on Facebook and said, hi, We
need to be friends and here areseveral reasons why." And of
(00:32):
course I said, yes.
John and I are both involved inthe live event industry, we're
both nerds, and we both lovestorytelling.
And I am super excited to beable to showcase John's prowess
to you today.
So without further ado, here'smy friend John P Marovich to
talk with us about creatingspace:
John P Marovich (00:54):
My name is John Marovich.
I'm a production lightingdesigner for work.
Live in Las Vegas, Nevada.
I am from Chicago originally.
So went, yeah, I went to schoolat DePaul came up through the
theater program there.
Grew up as a theater kid andthen stumbled into the weird
world of corporate theater thatuh, that you and I find
(01:16):
ourselves in.
So, yeah, completely not byplan.
I was not even aware that thatwas an industry.
I was working at the House ofBlues in Chicago for a few years
after I graduated from school,figuring out what I wanted to
do.
I thought for sure I wanted togo and light bands and live on a
tour bus.
I.
And and then a corporate showcame into the space one day and
helped them out.
And they actually offered me aposition on the next show that
(01:39):
they had the following week andjust jumped into this weird
thing that I had no idea what itwas.
Joy Blue (01:44):
That's so cool.
You just followed yourcuriosity.
John P Marovich (01:47):
A hundred percent.
That's what it's all about.
Joy Blue (01:49):
Love that.
Okay.
So what do you wanna nerd outabout today?
John P Marovich (01:53):
So I would love to nerd out about creating
space.
As a designer, it's one of thethings that I get to do, which
is fun.
And I think that we can talkabout it a few different ways
that will be a lot of fun forthe two of us.
Cuz I think you and I are gonnahave very different perspectives
different yet similarperspective, just based upon the
seats that we sit in when we'reon show site.
Joy Blue (02:15):
Correct.
Okay.
So let's start at the beginning.
Go ahead and define what youmean by space.
And then what is the action thenof creating space?
John P Marovich (02:26):
Sure.
So, space in the first part isthe actual space where we're
going to have our show.
I think people don't necessarilyrealize when they walk into a
large convention or somethinglike that.
That probably hours before theygot there, that was an empty
room that still had bar Mitzvawine spilled on the carpet from
the night before.
And the amount of work that goesinto taking that space and
(02:50):
transforming it into this sortof magical theater space with
all the bells and whistles andall of those things where it's a
space that we create for them tobe able to tell their story or
deliver their message.
Joy Blue (03:03):
Yeah.
So it's interesting to me thatyou're using the word theater.
I haven't put that label on it.
I've just put it as like event,but you're right.
Everything we are doing istheater.
We are following a script tosome point.
There is like, you have to beable to see, you have to be able
to like have a stage.
(03:23):
There is a set design.
Like all of those things do fit.
That is fascinating.
John P Marovich (03:29):
So I use theater in the terms of our
craft.
One of the other things that Iuse is storytelling.
I'm not insinuating in any waythat somebody that's getting up
there and talking about theirnew corporate rollout or model
or new product that they'retelling stories as in fiction in
any way.
I use storytelling just in thatwe're connecting them with
storytelling tools.
(03:51):
They bring us to the table tohelp deliver their message.
And that's what we do reallywell.
How do we sort of create thisweird space, be it virtual or
physical or some hybrid of thosetwo things where they can take
their message and translate it,sort of scale it up for the
masses.
Because it's different thansitting around typing an email
(04:12):
or sitting around a boardroomtable or something like that.
It's a completely differentparty once you're addressing a
crowd of a thousand people inthis weird space.
There's all these other thingsthat you don't have to think
about when it's just eightpeople around a table.
Joy Blue (04:26):
right, right.
Okay.
So when did you get started withcreating spaces?
Like when did you realize whatyou were doing was creating a
space?
When did it go from just like,yeah, I'm doing some flashing.
Here's a lighting term,everybody, some bally-hoo's.
Um,
John P Marovich (04:43):
Or Flash and Trash,
Joy Blue (04:44):
Ooh, flash and trash.
When did it go from justoperating to like actually this
is a space that I have agencyin.
John P Marovich (04:54):
Oh, I like that.
So.
I think probably after I focusedmy 14th thousand stage wash.
And it you start to, to findother things, right?
So, it's a little bit formulaicin how we come into the room.
The client approaches us with anidea and we sort of find out
what they want to do if there'sentertainment, components,
(05:16):
dinner things, all the logisticbits of it.
And then we we have to gothrough the process of renting
gear and things like that.
So it's all very literal interms of creating space there.
I don't think it was until laterin life when I realized the
importance of that space.
That it's not just a bunch ofgear poured into a space that we
(05:38):
then use to put on a technicalpresentation.
Even though I was a proud memberof AV club all through high
school and, we were all thosegeeks.
It's so much more than that.
There's so much sort ofphilosophy to storytelling tools
where we can help people.
They come to us with an idea,but they don't necessarily know
how to translate it.
(05:58):
So to, to make sure that we'rehelping them so that it is it's
appropriate.
And we all share responsibilityin that.
And that's the part that I like.
It's more than just those gears.
Like when we're on show site,you have a very particular role.
I do.
Everybody does.
Typically they look out to frontof house, the control area in
front of the drape where theaudience is, and they're gonna
(06:20):
see probably three, maybe fourpeople.
It's gonna be the two of us.
There's gonna be a sound guy,even though we usually wanna
stick that guy in the back.
Just kidding.
I love sound guys.
Uh, And maybe a producer is outthere with them.
What they don't know is the armyof people that are backstage and
just the amount of energy thateach and every one of us brings
into that space.
(06:41):
We bring our craft, but I thinkthat we all sort of have a
responsibility to, to comecorrect like we have to bring
the right energy into that spaceso that, that presenter, we have
to gain their trust, make surethat they know that they're in
good hands.
And then we can sort of alldeliver that message together.
Joy Blue (06:57):
Yeah.
I think the first time Irealized that there was power in
it was back when I used to playbass at church.
So.
I remember we, we were playingfor this well known artist and
she said something that was bothlike eye opening and also like,
oh, uh oh, she's like, like,what we're doing can be very
(07:20):
emotionally manipulative.
So like, we need to hold spacefor this well.
And I think a lot of what we doin event creation in this
corporate world is like whatyou're saying, we are creating a
safe environment for theclient's message to be heard in
the best way possible.
(07:40):
What does that look like fromyour end?
Because you're not justlighting, right?
You're more
John P Marovich (07:44):
No I'm not just lighting.
I do production design sort of,it's a.
Broad spectrum of what I do.
I do some work in the aerospacetechnology and pharmaceutical
field.
All of which are behind severalthousand pages of non-disclosure
agreements, I'm sure you're nostranger to.
So, can't necessarily talk a lotabout those, but some of the
(08:05):
other fun projects that I get towork on, um, Every Thanksgiving,
I design the halftime show forthe Dallas Cowboys.
So I work as the production andlighting designer on that.
So we have the stage itself, butthe other components of that are
getting it on and off of thefield.
I was shocked to find out as anon-sports ball person,
(08:25):
apparently there's this gamethat happens on time of the show
or on either side of the show.
I know.
So we have to get this thingonto the field in a designated
amount of minutes and off of thefield in a designated amount of
time.
Getting it off the field iswhere it gets tricky, because if
we are late for that we'recutting into network air time
(08:48):
that somebody has paid a lot ofmoney for.
Joy Blue (08:51):
Yeah.
John P Marovich (08:51):
So a lot of fines could potentially happen
there.
But that's a really fun one.
One that happened a little bitcloser to you, the event isn't
happening any longer, but theChi-Town rising new year's event
that happened in Chicago withthe big star that went up the
side of the building.
I designed the star with anotherdesigner, Chris Wren.
Joy Blue (09:08):
That's really cool.
John P Marovich (09:09):
That was a lot of fun, a lot of really unique
challenges with that one workingoutside and through the
elements.
And I had already moved to LasVegas at that point.
So I had become a giant baby tothe cold.
So that was never gonna happenin my head, but it happened
after about three weeks.
Joy Blue (09:24):
you gotta do you gotta do.
John P Marovich (09:25):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (09:26):
With both of those, you create gathering spaces for
memories to be had.
that's what the star rising is.
That's a gathering space.
That's a marking of time.
That's a memory people havetogether.
Like what does this mean to you?
It's not just a line item onyour resume.
John P Marovich (09:42):
It's not at all.
No, it's actually a hugeresponsibility.
And that's, it's easy for us tobecome jaded, I think, because
we do tens of shows a year.
Typically I'm involved in 30 to40 projects a year.
It can never be just anothershow.
I think that it's important toremember that for those new
year's events, you're marking amoment in time that's gonna be
(10:03):
captured in photographs andmemories.
And it's you're becomingingrained in people's lives.
It's a huge thing.
One of the other things that Ilove to do that I get to
participate in sometimes isdesigning activations.
So in what we do, an activationis a space where people have got
props or something like that.
I mean, I guess the best, like agood example of that would be
(10:23):
like a photo booth or somethinglike that people can take
pictures and be silly around atheme or something like that.
But I've had a chance to do someof that, that it integrates a
lot of different technologycomponents and things like that.
That creates a really funopportunity because we get to
play with people, but they don'tnecessarily realize that we are
playing with them.
So we get to come in and testeverything and figure it out.
(10:47):
And whatever that is, however wewant people to interact with
that space, we've run a thousanddifferent scenarios.
So by the time that they get toit and are coming in there and
they get to play, they get to bethe kids, it's really great to
sit back and watch because I canliterally stand next to you
while you're doing it, and youhave no idea that I was involved
with the setup in any way.
(11:08):
So I feel like I can boil downwhat we do to a certain extent
is sort of creating really coolforts for grownups.
There's still that sort ofchildlike play, I think, if
we're doing it correctly thatcomes out and gives people a
chance to dismiss reality for aminute.
Reality is really rough rightnow.
(11:28):
So I think any opportunity thatwe can create in a safe space
for people to walk away fromeverything that's terrible in
the world for a couple of hoursand just receive whatever this
new message is, it's prettygreat.
I mean, I think you could arguethat it's church in some ways.
It's sort of creating a sacredspace where people can come in
and just be a community andexperience something that's
(11:52):
special.
And then we all leave and that'sforever ingrained in us.
Joy Blue (11:56):
That's like the embodiment of what books are to
so many people.
I
John P Marovich (12:01):
True.
Joy Blue (12:01):
But what you're talking about is creating spaces
where people can share theseexperiences together.
John P Marovich (12:06):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (12:07):
And it's also documented.
John P Marovich (12:08):
Sometimes it is, Sometimes it isn't.
At some of these events, it'sreally interesting now that
locking people's phones up hasbecome a little bit of a norm.
We do that for a multitude ofdifferent reasons.
Sometimes we're unveiling a newproduct or something like that.
So all of those photo images andeverything like that are
embargoed, they can't bereleased for a certain amount of
time and the best way to makesure that somebody doesn't
accidentally sneak a picture andtext it to somebody.
(12:31):
Is just to take everybody'sphones away.
And it does a thing.
I think it's different.
When I was coming up in theaterand things like that, I mean,
you could bring your film camerato a show and shoot a picture.
You probably weren't bringing avoice recorder of any kind, but
it's a different thing now thateverything is documented.
So taking that away and justforcing people to be present.
(12:54):
Is such a cool thing.
We just we're there.
You're connecting your energyand there's no distractions.
It's just one thing that we'reall focusing our energy on.
It's a pretty magical thing whenit happens.
Joy Blue (13:07):
Well, it sounds like you're creating space for wonder
to happen.
John P Marovich (13:10):
If we do it right.
Joy Blue (13:11):
I mean, that's what got me into production in the
first place was watching theseproductions happening and
feeling that wonder inside ofme.
And then that curiosity led to,I wonder how that's done.
And then now that I know howit's done, I'm pretty jaded and
it's more of a struggle to findwonder.
But like what you're telling meis you're creating spaces for
(13:33):
play and you're creating spacesfor wonder.
John P Marovich (13:37):
It's true.
I mean, in the physical sense wedo that, but I think the other
part to, to talk about there increating space is maybe we use a
different term and we'll call itholding space.
Um, The way that you and I mightinteract as collaborators in
that space.
It's really easy for person tocome in and just take over the
entire conversation and not letanybody else speak at that
(13:57):
table.
But you really only get theproduct of that one person when
you do that.
So when you're in a group and Ithink we're lucky in that we get
to collaborate with similar,almost always the same people.
Sometimes there's players thatchange out or something like
that, or it's people you see ona regular basis, the show
happens every year, it kind ofbecomes a trusted family.
(14:20):
I think that all of us inproduction really became aware
of just how important our showfamilies were during COVID, when
we didn't see all these peopleon a regular basis.
And in some cases, those peopleare as important as our actual
family.
Joy Blue (14:34):
Yeah.
That's a whole different type ofcreating space.
Is learning to choose family inthe places you're at.
Like I haven't been on a lot ofrecurring shows, so almost every
show I'm meeting a whole bunchof new people.
And a wise producer once told mejoy, start with just trusting
that everybody can do their job.
John P Marovich (14:54):
Yeah.
Believe somebody is awesomeuntil they give you a reason to
think otherwise.
So I think just the act of doingthat is, is setting them up to
win.
I think that's a big part of, ofbeing a good part of a team is
setting everybody up to win.
We have to champion each othercuz nobody else is gonna do it.
Joy Blue (15:10):
Right.
And all of that creating spaceis happening behind the scenes
so that we can then create aspace for people to show up on
that stage and share theirmessage.
It's so meta.
John P Marovich (15:21):
Yeah.
It's all connected.
I mean, everywhere you look,there's design, people are
creating something around us,every single thing.
Whether it's the doorknob youuse to get in the room, the fork
you're eating with, or the spaceyou're having a show in.
Somebody has labored over thatand made sure that that works
properly for you to be havingyour moment with it.
Joy Blue (15:42):
So that comes back to design thinking.
Are you familiar with designthinking?
John P Marovich (15:46):
I would love to hear specifically a little bit
more about the term.
Joy Blue (15:49):
It's a whole process of thinking.
It's all about fast iterations.
So you start with what is theproblem and who is the problem
impacting and then engaging withempathy and saying, what do you
actually need?
And then engaging with thosepeople and saying, is this
actually the problem?
And like being as clear aspossible about what the problem
is, and then starting to do veryfast iterations and
(16:11):
brainstorming.
And it's a whole nother type ofcreating and holding space for
not having to have the rightanswer, but creating an
opportunity to truly empathizeand to truly move toward how can
we fix this together?
I love this.
John P Marovich (16:29):
Absolutely.
And I love that term.
I wanna dig a little bit deeperinto that.
You've, in that term describedwhat collaboration should look
like.
But so much of that is thosesort of quick iterations of
things.
For me, the words that I wouldput around that would be
creating space to play.
Because I think that is onething that people lose.
It's easy for things to becomeformulaic.
(16:51):
And just this factory wherewe're just pumping stuff out.
And one of the statements that Ihate to hear is we do it that
way because that's the way we'vealways done it.
Where we've never challengedwhat the process is or why it
looks even the way it does.
And at some point that'sgenerations down the road and we
(17:11):
have no idea why the hell we'redoing anything.
We're just doing it cuz that'sthe way we've always done it.
Holding that space for us toplay as collaborators is great.
I feel like sometimes I lookover at the show caller or the
stage manager, I have a momentof sympathy because I feel like
you're like, I'm just trying toland this into a spreadsheet.
What is somebody talking aboutright now?
(17:33):
But I think the really good onesgive us that little bit of time
to riff on something and we,throw that idea and everybody
just puts cool stuff on it.
And then, we have thatopportunity once we've built it
up to this big, crazy thing tothen go in and refine and pare
it down to exactly what it needsto be in order to tell the story
properly.
Joy Blue (17:52):
Yeah.
And that's something I loveabout lighting, specifically.
I didn't really tune into thepower of lighting as a
storyteller until a film classin college where we started
breaking down how does colorimpact this scene?
So much of color is also playingwith your unconscious bias.
(18:15):
So red tends to be more ominousand evil.
Blue is like, oh, here I am.
The good guy.
Green's like, let's go champion,let's move.
But in a corporate space,lighting is so much more limited
in my perception than in like aconcert space or in a film
space.
(18:35):
How do you approach storytellingwhen, like you said, like you're
focusing another stage wash,which for my non-techie friends,
stage wash is the white lightthat is thrown onto the stage,
washing it in light.
So you can actually see theperson.
It's essential, and yet that's avery monotonous task of focusing
who knows how many lights cuzevery
John P Marovich (18:54):
true.
Yeah.
It depends on how large thestage is for that particular
show.
But it's one of those thingswhere if we do it correctly,
nobody knows that we've done itbecause nobody thinks about
light.
It's something that we can'ttouch.
It's not tangible.
People don't necessarily knowhow it's affecting them.
But nearly every moment of yourlife, it's having a huge impact
(19:15):
on you.
Um, And it's in the corporatesetting, it's particularly
challenging.
You bring up a really good pointin if you're looking at theater,
dance, rock and roll, or musicin general, there's a lot more
freedom there.
Or we can say this song makes mefeel blue and we can go with
these great sort of colorpalettes and things like that.
(19:37):
That gets restricted a littlebit when we're doing a show for
one company whose colors mightbe red and yellow, but their
competitors colors might be blueand green.
So the second blue or green hitsthat stage, everybody's yelling.
They think that it's, thecompetitor colors are there and
that kind of thing.
So that does present a littlebit of a challenge.
(19:59):
For the most part, when thereare corporate speakers up on
stage, somebody representing thecompany, a lot of times we'll
pull that color story from theslide decks that have been
approved by lawyers andeverybody in the mix.
Yeah.
So we'll pull a lot of the colorstory from that, but there are
moments to break away from that.
(20:20):
A lot of times, if there's anentertainment component, that's
a time when we get to break therules.
Sometimes they'll do a danceopening or something like that.
So those are some opportunities.
But there's other subtle thingsthat we can do that give us
opportunities to sort of havefun and to drive that room.
When we're walking people uponto the stage, you know,
typically you'll call for thatbally-hoo, and a play on, and we
(20:42):
play some fun music and get theaudience all pumped up.
A really great thing happens.
And this is, it's a memorablemoment for me in my career.
The first time that I threwlights out into the house and
they sprayed all over theaudience and everybody screamed.
It was like this like bonerattling moment for me where
(21:04):
it's like, I did that with thisone handle.
I mean, granted, there mighthave been somebody famous on
stage, but as far as I wasconcerned in that moment, it was
this one handle that made thelights fly up into the audience
and all the kids went crazy.
Joy Blue (21:18):
Yep.
John P Marovich (21:18):
Just the power in that moment is so much fun.
So It's this kind of like finebalance between you have to make
sure that the cameras haveenough light and there's all
these sort of technical boxesthat we have to check, but then
there's also just making surethat people are comfortable.
A lot of weird things happen inour space.
It could be a motivationalleader where people are having
(21:41):
to stand up and do things.
And I know from some of yourother podcasts, maybe you're not
super excited about dancing inpublic uh, finger dancing.
I believe you, you referred to,but in that moment I can take
the house down or something thatto create that space for people
where it's like, you know what,I'm dancing in the dark and it
(22:01):
doesn't matter.
People, they aren't seeing me,or there's enough lights flying
around that people are payingattention to that and not paying
attention to Me.
Joy Blue (22:10):
That is why I dance in the tech booth occasionally
because I'm in the back of theroom.
John P Marovich (22:15):
when
Joy Blue (22:16):
looking at me.
I'm in
John P Marovich (22:18):
you and I land that first show together,
Joy Blue (22:20):
Oh, to be golden.
John P Marovich (22:21):
We'll dance.
It'll be great.
We don't have to tell anybody.
I'll make lights go in theireyes.
Joy Blue (22:27):
Fine.
I do the Cupid shuffle that'sabout it.
John P Marovich (22:29):
Yep.
I got that one.
Joy Blue (22:30):
And the homeschool dance.
John P Marovich (22:31):
I don't know the homeschool
Joy Blue (22:33):
Yeah.
I make it up every time.
So it's fine.
John P Marovich (22:34):
Oh, okay.
That's fair.
Joy Blue (22:36):
Okay.
So for, So for people who aren'tpaying attention to lighting,
and who aren't paying attentionto lighting as a storyteller.
Next time they walk into a largeenvironment, what do you wish,
or what do you hope, what do youencourage them to look for that
they might not have seen before?
John P Marovich (22:51):
Look up from your phone.
I would say, just be present inthe moment.
Somebody has designed that spacefor you.
It's an opportunity just to soakit in.
I think right now we're sodistracted by so many things.
If we just take a moment andjust experience.
Um, that lighting could beanything that could be lighting
that somebody has created foryou, but that could also be the
(23:12):
lighting that you walk into whenyou walk out your front door.
Just soak it in.
Because whether you know it ornot, it's having a huge impact
on your life.
You know, People talk aboutseasonal depression and things
like that.
And you mentioned the color red.
Once you start to, to talk aboutwhat that does to the body, the
fact that if you're in red lightlong enough, you're gonna become
more aggressive and you're gonnabecome hungry.
(23:34):
And it's connected to your bodyin all these different ways that
people aren't aware of.
So I would say.
Look around, be part of it.
Be present.
Joy Blue (23:44):
That is beautiful.
Thank you so much for your time.
And for sharing this.
I am so excited for when we getto create a space together
sometime somewhere.
John P Marovich (23:54):
Yes, we're gonna make it happen.
Joy Blue (23:56):
So Here We Are! My hope for you walking away from
listening to this interview isthat you not only learned more
about production nerdiness, butalso about how the environments
around us are often extremelywell thought through so that we
can create beautiful experiencesfor those around us.
(24:17):
As John said, take some time toput down your devices.
Soak in the stories around you.
Ask questions about whysomething is the way it is.
Be curious.
And pay attention to what lightdoes around you.
I loved spending this time withyou, John.
And I'm looking forward tocreating more spaces with you
soon.
(24:37):
If you've got a flavor of nerdthat you want me to celebrate, I
would love to hear all about it.
So go ahead and email me atherewearethepodcast@gmail.com
and tell me everything.
And I love taking time to sitand make space for nerd to be
celebrated.
If you really liked this podcastand want to financially support
what I'm doing, head on over topatreon.com, search for Here We
(24:58):
Are The Podcast and sign up forone of the many beautifully
written support tiers that I'mreally proud of.
So until next time.
Don't forget that curiosity winsand the world needs more nerds.
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