Episode Transcript
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Joy Blue (00:10):
Welcome to Here We Are.
The podcast where we celebratethe beauty of being a nerd by
learning about nerdy things fromfellow nerds.
I'm your host, Joy Blue.
Today's guest is pure delight.
There's rarely a time when I'min her presence that she doesn't
have a smile on her face.
(00:32):
She loves asking questions.
She's actively discovering newways to exist in the world and
we get to hear all about it.
So without further ado.
Here's my friend Jen to tell usall about openness
Jen Verruto (00:46):
I'm Jen Verruto.
I live in San Diego.
I, I don't know.
What are the things you say inan elevator to a stranger?
And what do you say to yourfriends about yourself?
Joy Blue (00:56):
Well, one of the questions I love asking people
is, what do you wish people knewabout you that they might not
know from the initial look?
Jen Verruto (01:03):
I love it.
I think it's just like theseeking nature that I'm always
wanting to improve or get betteror like, find out better ways to
live, I think.
I don't think you can catch thatfrom a first glance, but,
Joy Blue (01:18):
I like this.
Okay.
How do I know you?
Jen Verruto (01:20):
Oh, we know each other because you are married to
my good friend, Brie,
Joy Blue (01:24):
Uh Huh
Jen Verruto (01:25):
and you've changed her life for the better.
And I just love you both somuch.
And it's been very fun to watchyou guys meet and get to know
each other and change each otherin all of the wonderful ways.
Joy Blue (01:40):
and I love hugging you.
Jen Verruto (01:41):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (01:42):
Ha.
Jen Verruto (01:44):
I love a good hug.
I'm a big squeezy, long timehugger.
Joy Blue (01:48):
Mm-hmm.
I do love this about you.
Okay.
You are a nerd in manydimensions.
So what particularly do youwanna nerd out about today?
Jen Verruto (01:56):
I have been thinking about this.
I think I'm kind of nerding outabout like, manifesting and
like, the art of leaning intotrust.
Into trusting that like, thingsare gonna into are gonna be able
to come to you.
Joy Blue (02:09):
You are right.
And this is causing me stress.
We should talk about this.
Yes.
I'm like, Trust.
What are you talking about?
Trust no one.
Everybody is not worth it, justkidding.
They are.
Okay.
Tell me more about this.
Jen Verruto (02:24):
Okay.
So I think it's just this ideathat like the universe is
working in your favor.
It's not working against you.
And if you think it is, that'swhat you're calling in.
Joy Blue (02:34):
Huh.
the analogy I think of is kindof like with food.
It is going to be what youexpect it to be.
So whatever I expect the worldto do, to me, it's probably
going to do.
Jen Verruto (02:44):
Yeah.
It is That like power ofattraction.
My thoughts become reality.
And if I'm always thinkingnegatively about something, then
I'm gonna call more of that in.
If all I think about is howbroke I am, I'm gonna stay
broke.
Joy Blue (02:57):
ooh.
Jen Verruto (02:58):
If all I think about is how doom and gloom is
on the way.
Like that is what is gonnamanifest in your physical
reality.
Joy Blue (03:04):
Oof.
Okay.
So I had a very visceral emotionwhen you talked about trust at
the beginning.
So let's dive into that a little
Jen Verruto (03:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Joy Blue (03:11):
What has your journey with trust been?
And if you could start with adefinition for you of what trust
means, that would be fantastic.
Jen Verruto (03:19):
I think it's opposite of control.
And it's like a leaning in to aknowing that you're gonna be
okay.
Joy Blue (03:27):
I don't know what this feeling is.
I mean, yes, that's dramatic,but
Jen Verruto (03:31):
Yeah.
No,
Joy Blue (03:33):
what is that like?
Jen Verruto (03:34):
Everybody's been socially conditioned to live a
certain way.
And, I think that controlling isa way to try to like control and
manipulate what is coming to youor a way to feel safer, right?
So leaning into trust is justletting go a knowing that the
universe has your back.
(03:55):
That something is out there thatis like keeping us safe.
Joy Blue (03:59):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Like I've done a 12 step programbefore and they talk about, you
know, whatever you believe thehigher power is.
Is that what you're referencingwhen you talk about the
universe?
Like Whatever power is outthere, up to your
interpretation.
Jen Verruto (04:15):
Yeah.
It is to live for your own souland your own soul's growth.
It's a knowing that we're notalone.
we're not like the these littleentities on legs that are just
walking alone in the world.
It's that we all have a biggerpurpose and it's like connection
with other humans, but it'salso, it's our own soul growth
(04:36):
through our connection withother humans.
Joy Blue (04:38):
So it is like the principle of when one gets
better, we all get better?
Jen Verruto (04:42):
Yes.
And that we're all connected,like we're all a part of each
other.
And it's interesting with somuch polarity in the world and
all of that, it's like, Oh, Ihate that person.
I can't stand that.
But all of the people thattrigger you are showing you
parts of yourself that you maybedon't like.
Joy Blue (04:59):
Oof that is a truth right there.
Jen Verruto (05:01):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (05:03):
Okay, so for you, what does your journey with trust
look like?
Why is this on your mind?
Jen Verruto (05:08):
Yeah.
I think it's because once youlean into it, then you just know
that everything is gonna beokay.
It's like when you don't feellike everything is gonna be
okay, you're like in a constantpanic.
You're in like nervous systemoverload.
And think about the energyyou're sending out into the
world when you're in that state.
That's what you're calling in.
When you let it go.
And the energy is whatever willbe,
Joy Blue (05:31):
Yeah.
Jen Verruto (05:32):
Then I think that you free up that brain space to
call in and manifest the thingsthat you want.
Joy Blue (05:39):
Yeah.
For me, like what keeps poppingin my head is Brene Brown's
illustration of the soft front,strong back.
And the hand motion you keepdoing is palms up and in front
of you.
Jen Verruto (05:50):
Oh, interesting.
Joy Blue (05:52):
Yeah.
As you've been talking about it,that's what I'm perceiving that
you're talking about.
Jen Verruto (05:56):
Yeah, like it's like expansive,
Joy Blue (05:59):
yeah, it's big.
It's open.
And usually the palms up motionis openness, but it's also
curiosity.
So what I'm hearing you sayunderneath all of this is
switching from a scarcitymindset of there isn't enough
for me, to I can actually freelyexist in a place because there
is enough.
We're all here, we are all partof this world together.
(06:22):
Wow.
Jen Verruto (06:23):
I love your translation of that.
That's the perfect translationof that.
Joy Blue (06:26):
Wow.
So who's been pivotal for youalong this journey?
Jen Verruto (06:30):
Oh well, myself.
I mean, the first thing is youhave to get out of your way.
Joy Blue (06:35):
What's that like?
What, how have you done that?
How are you in your way?
How are you out of your way?
Jen Verruto (06:40):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (06:41):
it makes sense when you say it, but tangibly what
does that look like for you?
Jen Verruto (06:44):
Okay, this is a great story.
I always wanted to have a house.
But I leaned into this story.
So first of all, your storiesare in your way.
We all make up stories in ourheads of ourselves, of what we
deserve, of what can and cannothappen.
So I would regularly commiseratewith people in San Diego.
(07:05):
It was like my party thing.
like, Oh yeah, we're never gonnabe able to buy a house.
This is San Diego.
This,
Joy Blue (07:12):
It's like how people in Chicago always commiserate
about the winter,
Jen Verruto (07:15):
Yes.
Well, I mean, you're not gonnabe able to change winter, but
you could change the ways thatyou operate.
In Maybe winter isnt miserablebecause you're snowshoeing now
and you look forward to it everywinter, or, But um,
Joy Blue (07:28):
It's the stories you're telling yourself
Jen Verruto (07:30):
Yes, exactly.
And I also wanna separate thisfrom toxic positivity, so my
party story is just everyonemoves here and all these rich
people are buying these houses,and you go into this like
commiserating And that was mystory for like 15 years.
I never believed I could buyhere and then something
(07:50):
happened.
I think it's just like keepingyour eyes open to what people
around you are doing and alsolike just a recognition: is this
truth or is this a story?
Joy Blue (08:00):
That is the question of the hour.
Jen Verruto (08:02):
Yeah.
I'm an interior designer, so acontractor I was working with at
the time, we had talked aboutthis in the past of Oh, it's so
hard to buy a house, But hebought one and he was like, Jen,
just go talk to this mortgageguy that we both know and see if
you can.
Just start a conversation.
And I was like, What?
Joy Blue (08:20):
You mean actually take tangible action instead of
getting mad at
Jen Verruto (08:23):
but it's not possible, so why even bother?
I mean, I've told myself for 15years that it's never gonna
happen.
Just one little thing can tweakthe brain into going, but could
I?
But wait a second.
Well, you just, you just changedeverything that I was thinking.
And it was a process.
But, first met with that guy andthen he planted a seed and said,
(08:46):
maybe you're not in the positionright now, but here are the
steps that you could take to getinto that position.
Joy Blue (08:50):
So, then you're learning about agency.
Jen Verruto (08:53):
Yeah, fast forward three more years and we have
actually taken the steps.
And there were setbacks.
It was like, oh, we had a littlenest egg, and then taxes came
and wiped it all out.
And then you just keep going andyou start to believe it and you
start to envision yourself inyour home and then you maybe
have a vision board.
it's just slowly changing yourmindset and knowing that's a
(09:16):
story.
This is not actual truth.
And you can always shift thingsand and make it happen.
So that was trust and action.
I don't think that you can gothrough the world and just like
maybe blindly trust.
You also have to exist, and takesteps and have free will to make
things happen.
But it's getting past yourstory.
Joy Blue (09:38):
Wow.
Yeah.
That comes back to the openhands that you've been
Jen Verruto (09:42):
Yes.
And what are you saying?
What are you saying every daythat's holding you back?
You're saying life is so hard.
Every day is a struggle.
Well, you're gonna keep gettinga struggle,
Joy Blue (09:53):
right?
Jen Verruto (09:53):
But if you say like, My life is so expansive.
the possibilities are literallyendless for me.
You're gonna start to believe itas you say it.
Maybe you're just thinking it,but then start saying it in
conversations like Oh yeah,we're saving up to buy a house.
We'll get there.
Might take some time, but we'llget there.
And changing the narrative.
Joy Blue (10:13):
Yeah.
That feels like the concept ofagency to me.
Not just letting things happento you, but having a say in what
is happening.
Like doing the work to realizewhat do I want?
Something I've learned along myjourney is learning the phrase
like, who told you that?
Jen Verruto (10:32):
Mm-hmm.
Joy Blue (10:33):
And then I think this was from Jo Saxton, but the
principle of who were you beforesomeone told you who you were
supposed to be?
Jen Verruto (10:40):
I love that.
Joy Blue (10:42):
So that's what I'm hearing you say of is what I'm
dealing with right now, is thata story that I received for some
reason with or without mypermission?
Or is what I'm experiencing ameasure of truth based on who I
am and how I experience theworld?
Jen Verruto (11:01):
Yeah, and your story is not your fault until
you know that you can change it.
Joy Blue (11:07):
Right.
Jen Verruto (11:08):
I don't wanna be blaming people's circumstances
if they deserve it and that kindof That's not what I'm saying.
But once you realize that youcan make a shift and you can
call in something.
Joy Blue (11:19):
Yeah.
That's what we talk about in 12step programs of what happened
to you is not your fault, butwhat you do with it is your
responsibility.
So what I'm hearing you say islike the journey of trust is
also the journey of agency, isalso the journey of becoming, of
shedding the layers that are nolonger helpful to you.
So it's what you're talkingabout is the pathway of growth.
Jen Verruto (11:41):
Yes.
Joy Blue (11:41):
And becoming more of who you are.
Jen Verruto (11:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love how you translate things.
Like all of my like 10 minutesof talking.
You're like, this is what you,this is what I hear from that.
I love your ability to do that.
It's so perfect.
Joy Blue (11:55):
Thanks.
I love words.
Jen Verruto (11:57):
You're good at words.
Joy Blue (11:58):
Thank you.
Okay.
Think back to Jen of a year ortwo ago, what do you wish Jen of
then knew?
What would you say to her thatJen of now knows?
Jen Verruto (12:09):
I think I would say the same thing that I actually
did.
I follow things that are placedin my path and I look at
everything as an opportunity.
So it's I don't know.
I'm trying to think of a goodexample.
It's like following the steppingstones on this healing journey.
I went to, And I know all of,all of this is also like a
privileged place to be.
I was at a professional and theyrecommended me to another
(12:32):
professional.
I also think that there's a lotof free information out there
that you can always still haveyour own growth, even if you're
not able to go to all of theseappointments and follow all
these things.
But I also think what's theprice tag on personal growth?
So, That's where I am with it.
It's okay, well let's go seethat guy.
So the guy that I was referredto as an ayurvedic healer,
Joy Blue (12:53):
What does that mean?
Jen Verruto (12:55):
Yeah.
basically, It's part energyhealing, like almost like a
reiki, but he calls it varma.
And long story short he doesmassage for lymphatic drainage.
He was like, You're holdingtrauma in your belly.
Joy Blue (13:10):
How did that feel to hear?!
Jen Verruto (13:13):
It sucked cuz I was like, I think I'm doing okay.
I'm out here manifesting I'm outhere leaning into my truth.
I'm out here I
Joy Blue (13:21):
Yeah.
Jen Verruto (13:22):
and I'm like, I have trauma.
Oh.
Ooh.
And he said, You have grief inyour heart.
I've never met this guy.
So he doesn't know.
My mom just died last year.
doesn't know that, I mean,everybody has trauma, but I was,
I went there going like, why amI still feeling not okay in my
body?
And I've been doing all of thesenatural supplements and all of
(13:43):
this healthy eating and thispart of the journey.
And he was like, You don't feelhealthy in your body because
you've got trauma in your body.
Joy Blue (13:50):
Oof.
Jen Verruto (13:51):
So yeah, it was an ouch.
And he was like, have you everdone EMDR?
Joy Blue (13:56):
Ooh, I do love EMDR.
Jen Verruto (13:58):
Yes.
So the lymphatic massage energyguy is like, go to therapy
Joy Blue (14:09):
for people that don't know what EMDR is, can you tell
us a little bit about whatthat's been for you?
Jen Verruto (14:13):
Yes.
First of all, it's like, using afinger to, to make your eyes go
back and forth and um, activateboth sides of your brain.
Or like little paddles that arejust like little vibrating
paddles that switch vibrationsby hand, which essentially does
the same thing as the eyemovement, and it activates your
brain and memories in adifferent way so you could say
(14:35):
I, I had an argument with mypartner.
And I'm upset and.
Okay, so how did you feel whenyou were upset during the
argument?
And what age did you feel that?
And then you go, Oh, I think Ifelt seven, and I'm not sure
why.
Okay, let's turn on the paddles,
Joy Blue (14:51):
Yep.
Jen Verruto (14:52):
And then you go, Oh, I just found a memory of
when I felt that exact same way.
Joy Blue (14:57):
Yep.
Jen Verruto (14:58):
And so the argument basically came out of my, the
inner child that was wounded atage seven.
My 43 year old self is nowarguing with my partner in a
seven year old fashion.
And but that's also where, likethat trauma is stored.
So then repackaging the traumaand recognizing the trauma on a
(15:19):
neutral level in our adult brainand going, Okay, I'm gonna
recategorize this and put itback in a healthier way than the
way that my seven year old brainprocessed that trauma.
Did I explain it okay?
Joy Blue (15:34):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The essence of it is every timeyou pull a memory off the shelf,
it is malleable.
So EMDR gives you tools to helpyour brain find resolution
through several connectionsalong the way.
Jen Verruto (15:48):
Yeah, because it, yeah, it just can then opens up.
It's like, okay, so werepackaged that memory and we
know that we're safe.
We've changed the memory fromlike, I'm not safe as a seven
year old to I was safe.
It turned out okay.
I'm okay now.
Joy Blue (16:02):
Yeah.
Jen Verruto (16:03):
And you were never alone.
Your grown up self can go backinto that memory kind of say
we're okay.
And then it can, piggyback ontothese other memories when you
felt the same way.
Joy Blue (16:12):
Everything's connected
Jen Verruto (16:13):
Yes.
So it's, yes.
And so it's been like, it's beencompletely transformational to
have Like this lymphatic massageenergy healing guy saying, You
got trauma, let's work on that.
And then we can begin more ofthe body healing.
And so I'm working through thesethings in therapy and EMDR and
then she's like, Well, there'sthis piece of this that is like
(16:37):
also linked to your body issues.
I'm gonna send you to thisdietician.
And so I followed the crumbs tothe dietician.
And she's been changing my life.
So it goes back to the trustthing of like, all of these
people are being placed in mylife for purposeful growth
because I'm asking for it.
Cause I'm manifesting growthbecause I want to get to a
(16:59):
better version of myself at alltimes.
And so I don't think thatanything is coincidence and I
mean, I can go in so manydifferent directions with you at
this point, but I think followthe path.
Joy Blue (17:10):
It's like a choose your own adventure like what
you're saying is choose amindset where you're looking
around you with curiosity,knowing that you do have agency,
knowing that you've made it thisfar.
Somehow you will make it throughwhatever's in front of you,
knowing that you will besupported along the way and it
might look different than whatit's looked like so far.
(17:33):
Being okay is going to keepchanging.
So tomorrow's a differentlooking okay than today, but you
will be okay.
Jen Verruto (17:39):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (17:40):
And so then you're back to that center within
yourself.
Jen Verruto (17:43):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (17:43):
And you're trusting yourself and trusting I am not
without options.
Jen Verruto (17:49):
Yes.
And that openness, justremaining open to what good can
be brought into my path, Who canhelp me, and how can I then help
others through the knowledge I'mgaining and the growth that I'm
doing, and how can I lead byexample?
I don't have to go out there andpreach and tell everybody I've
met that I'm doing all thesethings, but I can lead by
(18:10):
example.
And people have been saying tome like, Oh my God, you look
different, you look great.
And I'm like, that'sinteresting.
My body hasn't changed.
But something about my spirit iscoming through in a different
way to people, because of allthis growth.
Yeah, something within that isshifting that people are seeing.
Joy Blue (18:30):
Yeah.
When I can support myself fromwithin myself, it's like, Joseph
Campbell's Hero's Journey.
When I find along the way that Ihave what I already need to move
through and to be the hero ofthis story, I know I'm gonna be
okay.
Jen Verruto (18:48):
that's exactly it.
It's that everything that weneed is already here.
And it's almost like all ofthese people are helping me dig
it out.
Cuz it's, it's been buried foryears by society, by everybody
that ever said somethingnegative or every negative
(19:08):
experience and all of theconditioning and your parents
and the friends and like all ofthis, everything that happens to
us along the way, buries ourknowing a little bit deeper.
So all of this growth has beenhappening by like digging the
soil away to, like finding thegolden nugget, which has always
been here.
Joy Blue (19:29):
That's beautiful, Jen.
Jen Verruto (19:30):
you Yeah it's, always seeking and always
remaining open and leaning intoknowing that it's there.
That we're okay.
It's like the, wherever you go,there you are.
Joy Blue (19:40):
Yeah.
That is a beautiful thought toend this recording on.
Thank you so much for your timeand for sharing.
And for just being here andbeing good.
Thank you.
Jen Verruto (19:56):
thank you.
Joy Blue (19:58):
So here we are.
What a beautiful reminder Jenhas given us to be open and
curious as we approach the worldaround us.
I have experienced that feelingshe described of following the
stepping stones toward healing,and being in awe of the people
that I meet along the way.
I literally just had aconversation with my friend Zana
(20:21):
about that very thing.
I've been searching for somesort of mentor figure.
And what I realized during thatconversation with Zana is that
I'm surrounded by mentors.
As I follow the curiositystepping stones, I am meeting
people who are supporting me andloving me in the ways that I
(20:41):
need.
Just like Jen said,
Jen Verruto (20:44):
always seeking and always remaining open and
leaning into knowing that it'sthere.
That we're okay.
It's like the, wherever you go,there you are.
Joy Blue (20:53):
Wherever you go.
There you are.
Thanks again, Jen, for the giftof your time.
If you've got a flavor of nerdthat you want me to celebrate, I
would love to hear all about it.
So go ahead and email me atherewearethepodcast@gmail.com
and tell me everything.
I love taking time to sit andmake space for nerd to be
celebrated.
(21:14):
If you really liked this podcastand want to financially support
what I'm doing, head on over toPatreon.com, search for Here We
Are The Podcast and sign up forone of the many beautifully
written support tiers that I'mvery proud of.
So until next time, don't forgetthat curiosity wins and the
world needs more nerds.
Bye
Welcome to Here We Are.
The podcast where we celebratethe beauty of being a nerd by
learning about nerdy things fromfellow nerds.
I'm your host, Joy Blue.
Today's guest is pure delight.
There's rarely a time when I'min her presence that she doesn't
have a smile on her face.
(00:32):
She loves asking questions.
She's actively discovering newways to exist in the world and
we get to hear all about it.
So without further ado.
Here's my friend Jen to tell usall about openness
Jen Verruto (00:46):
I'm Jen Verruto.
I live in San Diego.
I, I don't know.
What are the things you say inan elevator to a stranger?
And what do you say to yourfriends about yourself?
Joy Blue (00:56):
Well, one of the questions I love asking people
is, what do you wish people knewabout you that they might not
know from the initial look?
Jen Verruto (01:03):
I love it.
I think it's just like theseeking nature that I'm always
wanting to improve or get betteror like, find out better ways to
live, I think.
I don't think you can catch thatfrom a first glance, but,
Joy Blue (01:18):
I like this.
Okay.
How do I know you?
Jen Verruto (01:20):
Oh, we know each other because you are married to
my good friend, Brie,
Joy Blue (01:24):
Uh Huh
Jen Verruto (01:25):
and you've changed her life for the better.
And I just love you both somuch.
And it's been very fun to watchyou guys meet and get to know
each other and change each otherin all of the wonderful ways.
Joy Blue (01:40):
and I love hugging you.
Jen Verruto (01:41):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (01:42):
Ha.
Jen Verruto (01:44):
I love a good hug.
I'm a big squeezy, long timehugger.
Joy Blue (01:48):
Mm-hmm.
I do love this about you.
Okay.
You are a nerd in manydimensions.
So what particularly do youwanna nerd out about today?
Jen Verruto (01:56):
I have been thinking about this.
I think I'm kind of nerding outabout like, manifesting and
like, the art of leaning intotrust.
Into trusting that like, thingsare gonna into are gonna be able
to come to you.
Joy Blue (02:09):
You are right.
And this is causing me stress.
We should talk about this.
Yes.
I'm like, Trust.
What are you talking about?
Trust no one.
Everybody is not worth it, justkidding.
They are.
Okay.
Tell me more about this.
Jen Verruto (02:24):
Okay.
So I think it's just this ideathat like the universe is
working in your favor.
It's not working against you.
And if you think it is, that'swhat you're calling in.
Joy Blue (02:34):
Huh.
the analogy I think of is kindof like with food.
It is going to be what youexpect it to be.
So whatever I expect the worldto do, to me, it's probably
going to do.
Jen Verruto (02:44):
Yeah.
It is That like power ofattraction.
My thoughts become reality.
And if I'm always thinkingnegatively about something, then
I'm gonna call more of that in.
If all I think about is howbroke I am, I'm gonna stay
broke.
Joy Blue (02:57):
ooh.
Jen Verruto (02:58):
If all I think about is how doom and gloom is
on the way.
Like that is what is gonnamanifest in your physical
reality.
Joy Blue (03:04):
Oof.
Okay.
So I had a very visceral emotionwhen you talked about trust at
the beginning.
So let's dive into that a little
Jen Verruto (03:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Joy Blue (03:11):
What has your journey with trust been?
And if you could start with adefinition for you of what trust
means, that would be fantastic.
Jen Verruto (03:19):
I think it's opposite of control.
And it's like a leaning in to aknowing that you're gonna be
okay.
Joy Blue (03:27):
I don't know what this feeling is.
I mean, yes, that's dramatic,but
Jen Verruto (03:31):
Yeah.
No,
Joy Blue (03:33):
what is that like?
Jen Verruto (03:34):
Everybody's been socially conditioned to live a
certain way.
And, I think that controlling isa way to try to like control and
manipulate what is coming to youor a way to feel safer, right?
So leaning into trust is justletting go a knowing that the
universe has your back.
(03:55):
That something is out there thatis like keeping us safe.
Joy Blue (03:59):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Like I've done a 12 step programbefore and they talk about, you
know, whatever you believe thehigher power is.
Is that what you're referencingwhen you talk about the
universe?
Like Whatever power is outthere, up to your
interpretation.
Jen Verruto (04:15):
Yeah.
It is to live for your own souland your own soul's growth.
It's a knowing that we're notalone.
we're not like the these littleentities on legs that are just
walking alone in the world.
It's that we all have a biggerpurpose and it's like connection
with other humans, but it'salso, it's our own soul growth
(04:36):
through our connection withother humans.
Joy Blue (04:38):
So it is like the principle of when one gets
better, we all get better?
Jen Verruto (04:42):
Yes.
And that we're all connected,like we're all a part of each
other.
And it's interesting with somuch polarity in the world and
all of that, it's like, Oh, Ihate that person.
I can't stand that.
But all of the people thattrigger you are showing you
parts of yourself that you maybedon't like.
Joy Blue (04:59):
Oof that is a truth right there.
Jen Verruto (05:01):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (05:03):
Okay, so for you, what does your journey with trust
look like?
Why is this on your mind?
Jen Verruto (05:08):
Yeah.
I think it's because once youlean into it, then you just know
that everything is gonna beokay.
It's like when you don't feellike everything is gonna be
okay, you're like in a constantpanic.
You're in like nervous systemoverload.
And think about the energyyou're sending out into the
world when you're in that state.
That's what you're calling in.
When you let it go.
And the energy is whatever willbe,
Joy Blue (05:31):
Yeah.
Jen Verruto (05:32):
Then I think that you free up that brain space to
call in and manifest the thingsthat you want.
Joy Blue (05:39):
Yeah.
For me, like what keeps poppingin my head is Brene Brown's
illustration of the soft front,strong back.
And the hand motion you keepdoing is palms up and in front
of you.
Jen Verruto (05:50):
Oh, interesting.
Joy Blue (05:52):
Yeah.
As you've been talking about it,that's what I'm perceiving that
you're talking about.
Jen Verruto (05:56):
Yeah, like it's like expansive,
Joy Blue (05:59):
yeah, it's big.
It's open.
And usually the palms up motionis openness, but it's also
curiosity.
So what I'm hearing you sayunderneath all of this is
switching from a scarcitymindset of there isn't enough
for me, to I can actually freelyexist in a place because there
is enough.
We're all here, we are all partof this world together.
(06:22):
Wow.
Jen Verruto (06:23):
I love your translation of that.
That's the perfect translationof that.
Joy Blue (06:26):
Wow.
So who's been pivotal for youalong this journey?
Jen Verruto (06:30):
Oh well, myself.
I mean, the first thing is youhave to get out of your way.
Joy Blue (06:35):
What's that like?
What, how have you done that?
How are you in your way?
How are you out of your way?
Jen Verruto (06:40):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (06:41):
it makes sense when you say it, but tangibly what
does that look like for you?
Jen Verruto (06:44):
Okay, this is a great story.
I always wanted to have a house.
But I leaned into this story.
So first of all, your storiesare in your way.
We all make up stories in ourheads of ourselves, of what we
deserve, of what can and cannothappen.
So I would regularly commiseratewith people in San Diego.
(07:05):
It was like my party thing.
like, Oh yeah, we're never gonnabe able to buy a house.
This is San Diego.
This,
Joy Blue (07:12):
It's like how people in Chicago always commiserate
about the winter,
Jen Verruto (07:15):
Yes.
Well, I mean, you're not gonnabe able to change winter, but
you could change the ways thatyou operate.
In Maybe winter isnt miserablebecause you're snowshoeing now
and you look forward to it everywinter, or, But um,
Joy Blue (07:28):
It's the stories you're telling yourself
Jen Verruto (07:30):
Yes, exactly.
And I also wanna separate thisfrom toxic positivity, so my
party story is just everyonemoves here and all these rich
people are buying these houses,and you go into this like
commiserating And that was mystory for like 15 years.
I never believed I could buyhere and then something
(07:50):
happened.
I think it's just like keepingyour eyes open to what people
around you are doing and alsolike just a recognition: is this
truth or is this a story?
Joy Blue (08:00):
That is the question of the hour.
Jen Verruto (08:02):
Yeah.
I'm an interior designer, so acontractor I was working with at
the time, we had talked aboutthis in the past of Oh, it's so
hard to buy a house, But hebought one and he was like, Jen,
just go talk to this mortgageguy that we both know and see if
you can.
Just start a conversation.
And I was like, What?
Joy Blue (08:20):
You mean actually take tangible action instead of
getting mad at
Jen Verruto (08:23):
but it's not possible, so why even bother?
I mean, I've told myself for 15years that it's never gonna
happen.
Just one little thing can tweakthe brain into going, but could
I?
But wait a second.
Well, you just, you just changedeverything that I was thinking.
And it was a process.
But, first met with that guy andthen he planted a seed and said,
(08:46):
maybe you're not in the positionright now, but here are the
steps that you could take to getinto that position.
Joy Blue (08:50):
So, then you're learning about agency.
Jen Verruto (08:53):
Yeah, fast forward three more years and we have
actually taken the steps.
And there were setbacks.
It was like, oh, we had a littlenest egg, and then taxes came
and wiped it all out.
And then you just keep going andyou start to believe it and you
start to envision yourself inyour home and then you maybe
have a vision board.
it's just slowly changing yourmindset and knowing that's a
(09:16):
story.
This is not actual truth.
And you can always shift thingsand and make it happen.
So that was trust and action.
I don't think that you can gothrough the world and just like
maybe blindly trust.
You also have to exist, and takesteps and have free will to make
things happen.
But it's getting past yourstory.
Joy Blue (09:38):
Wow.
Yeah.
That comes back to the openhands that you've been
Jen Verruto (09:42):
Yes.
And what are you saying?
What are you saying every daythat's holding you back?
You're saying life is so hard.
Every day is a struggle.
Well, you're gonna keep gettinga struggle,
Joy Blue (09:53):
right?
Jen Verruto (09:53):
But if you say like, My life is so expansive.
the possibilities are literallyendless for me.
You're gonna start to believe itas you say it.
Maybe you're just thinking it,but then start saying it in
conversations like Oh yeah,we're saving up to buy a house.
We'll get there.
Might take some time, but we'llget there.
And changing the narrative.
Joy Blue (10:13):
Yeah.
That feels like the concept ofagency to me.
Not just letting things happento you, but having a say in what
is happening.
Like doing the work to realizewhat do I want?
Something I've learned along myjourney is learning the phrase
like, who told you that?
Jen Verruto (10:32):
Mm-hmm.
Joy Blue (10:33):
And then I think this was from Jo Saxton, but the
principle of who were you beforesomeone told you who you were
supposed to be?
Jen Verruto (10:40):
I love that.
Joy Blue (10:42):
So that's what I'm hearing you say of is what I'm
dealing with right now, is thata story that I received for some
reason with or without mypermission?
Or is what I'm experiencing ameasure of truth based on who I
am and how I experience theworld?
Jen Verruto (11:01):
Yeah, and your story is not your fault until
you know that you can change it.
Joy Blue (11:07):
Right.
Jen Verruto (11:08):
I don't wanna be blaming people's circumstances
if they deserve it and that kindof That's not what I'm saying.
But once you realize that youcan make a shift and you can
call in something.
Joy Blue (11:19):
Yeah.
That's what we talk about in 12step programs of what happened
to you is not your fault, butwhat you do with it is your
responsibility.
So what I'm hearing you say islike the journey of trust is
also the journey of agency, isalso the journey of becoming, of
shedding the layers that are nolonger helpful to you.
So it's what you're talkingabout is the pathway of growth.
Jen Verruto (11:41):
Yes.
Joy Blue (11:41):
And becoming more of who you are.
Jen Verruto (11:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love how you translate things.
Like all of my like 10 minutesof talking.
You're like, this is what you,this is what I hear from that.
I love your ability to do that.
It's so perfect.
Joy Blue (11:55):
Thanks.
I love words.
Jen Verruto (11:57):
You're good at words.
Joy Blue (11:58):
Thank you.
Okay.
Think back to Jen of a year ortwo ago, what do you wish Jen of
then knew?
What would you say to her thatJen of now knows?
Jen Verruto (12:09):
I think I would say the same thing that I actually
did.
I follow things that are placedin my path and I look at
everything as an opportunity.
So it's I don't know.
I'm trying to think of a goodexample.
It's like following the steppingstones on this healing journey.
I went to, And I know all of,all of this is also like a
privileged place to be.
I was at a professional and theyrecommended me to another
(12:32):
professional.
I also think that there's a lotof free information out there
that you can always still haveyour own growth, even if you're
not able to go to all of theseappointments and follow all
these things.
But I also think what's theprice tag on personal growth?
So, That's where I am with it.
It's okay, well let's go seethat guy.
So the guy that I was referredto as an ayurvedic healer,
Joy Blue (12:53):
What does that mean?
Jen Verruto (12:55):
Yeah.
basically, It's part energyhealing, like almost like a
reiki, but he calls it varma.
And long story short he doesmassage for lymphatic drainage.
He was like, You're holdingtrauma in your belly.
Joy Blue (13:10):
How did that feel to hear?!
Jen Verruto (13:13):
It sucked cuz I was like, I think I'm doing okay.
I'm out here manifesting I'm outhere leaning into my truth.
I'm out here I
Joy Blue (13:21):
Yeah.
Jen Verruto (13:22):
and I'm like, I have trauma.
Oh.
Ooh.
And he said, You have grief inyour heart.
I've never met this guy.
So he doesn't know.
My mom just died last year.
doesn't know that, I mean,everybody has trauma, but I was,
I went there going like, why amI still feeling not okay in my
body?
And I've been doing all of thesenatural supplements and all of
(13:43):
this healthy eating and thispart of the journey.
And he was like, You don't feelhealthy in your body because
you've got trauma in your body.
Joy Blue (13:50):
Oof.
Jen Verruto (13:51):
So yeah, it was an ouch.
And he was like, have you everdone EMDR?
Joy Blue (13:56):
Ooh, I do love EMDR.
Jen Verruto (13:58):
Yes.
So the lymphatic massage energyguy is like, go to therapy
Joy Blue (14:09):
for people that don't know what EMDR is, can you tell
us a little bit about whatthat's been for you?
Jen Verruto (14:13):
Yes.
First of all, it's like, using afinger to, to make your eyes go
back and forth and um, activateboth sides of your brain.
Or like little paddles that arejust like little vibrating
paddles that switch vibrationsby hand, which essentially does
the same thing as the eyemovement, and it activates your
brain and memories in adifferent way so you could say
(14:35):
I, I had an argument with mypartner.
And I'm upset and.
Okay, so how did you feel whenyou were upset during the
argument?
And what age did you feel that?
And then you go, Oh, I think Ifelt seven, and I'm not sure
why.
Okay, let's turn on the paddles,
Joy Blue (14:51):
Yep.
Jen Verruto (14:52):
And then you go, Oh, I just found a memory of
when I felt that exact same way.
Joy Blue (14:57):
Yep.
Jen Verruto (14:58):
And so the argument basically came out of my, the
inner child that was wounded atage seven.
My 43 year old self is nowarguing with my partner in a
seven year old fashion.
And but that's also where, likethat trauma is stored.
So then repackaging the traumaand recognizing the trauma on a
(15:19):
neutral level in our adult brainand going, Okay, I'm gonna
recategorize this and put itback in a healthier way than the
way that my seven year old brainprocessed that trauma.
Did I explain it okay?
Joy Blue (15:34):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The essence of it is every timeyou pull a memory off the shelf,
it is malleable.
So EMDR gives you tools to helpyour brain find resolution
through several connectionsalong the way.
Jen Verruto (15:48):
Yeah, because it, yeah, it just can then opens up.
It's like, okay, so werepackaged that memory and we
know that we're safe.
We've changed the memory fromlike, I'm not safe as a seven
year old to I was safe.
It turned out okay.
I'm okay now.
Joy Blue (16:02):
Yeah.
Jen Verruto (16:03):
And you were never alone.
Your grown up self can go backinto that memory kind of say
we're okay.
And then it can, piggyback ontothese other memories when you
felt the same way.
Joy Blue (16:12):
Everything's connected
Jen Verruto (16:13):
Yes.
So it's, yes.
And so it's been like, it's beencompletely transformational to
have Like this lymphatic massageenergy healing guy saying, You
got trauma, let's work on that.
And then we can begin more ofthe body healing.
And so I'm working through thesethings in therapy and EMDR and
then she's like, Well, there'sthis piece of this that is like
(16:37):
also linked to your body issues.
I'm gonna send you to thisdietician.
And so I followed the crumbs tothe dietician.
And she's been changing my life.
So it goes back to the trustthing of like, all of these
people are being placed in mylife for purposeful growth
because I'm asking for it.
Cause I'm manifesting growthbecause I want to get to a
(16:59):
better version of myself at alltimes.
And so I don't think thatanything is coincidence and I
mean, I can go in so manydifferent directions with you at
this point, but I think followthe path.
Joy Blue (17:10):
It's like a choose your own adventure like what
you're saying is choose amindset where you're looking
around you with curiosity,knowing that you do have agency,
knowing that you've made it thisfar.
Somehow you will make it throughwhatever's in front of you,
knowing that you will besupported along the way and it
might look different than whatit's looked like so far.
(17:33):
Being okay is going to keepchanging.
So tomorrow's a differentlooking okay than today, but you
will be okay.
Jen Verruto (17:39):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (17:40):
And so then you're back to that center within
yourself.
Jen Verruto (17:43):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (17:43):
And you're trusting yourself and trusting I am not
without options.
Jen Verruto (17:49):
Yes.
And that openness, justremaining open to what good can
be brought into my path, Who canhelp me, and how can I then help
others through the knowledge I'mgaining and the growth that I'm
doing, and how can I lead byexample?
I don't have to go out there andpreach and tell everybody I've
met that I'm doing all thesethings, but I can lead by
(18:10):
example.
And people have been saying tome like, Oh my God, you look
different, you look great.
And I'm like, that'sinteresting.
My body hasn't changed.
But something about my spirit iscoming through in a different
way to people, because of allthis growth.
Yeah, something within that isshifting that people are seeing.
Joy Blue (18:30):
Yeah.
When I can support myself fromwithin myself, it's like, Joseph
Campbell's Hero's Journey.
When I find along the way that Ihave what I already need to move
through and to be the hero ofthis story, I know I'm gonna be
okay.
Jen Verruto (18:48):
that's exactly it.
It's that everything that weneed is already here.
And it's almost like all ofthese people are helping me dig
it out.
Cuz it's, it's been buried foryears by society, by everybody
that ever said somethingnegative or every negative
(19:08):
experience and all of theconditioning and your parents
and the friends and like all ofthis, everything that happens to
us along the way, buries ourknowing a little bit deeper.
So all of this growth has beenhappening by like digging the
soil away to, like finding thegolden nugget, which has always
been here.
Joy Blue (19:29):
That's beautiful, Jen.
Jen Verruto (19:30):
you Yeah it's, always seeking and always
remaining open and leaning intoknowing that it's there.
That we're okay.
It's like the, wherever you go,there you are.
Joy Blue (19:40):
Yeah.
That is a beautiful thought toend this recording on.
Thank you so much for your timeand for sharing.
And for just being here andbeing good.
Thank you.
Jen Verruto (19:56):
thank you.
Joy Blue (19:58):
So here we are.
What a beautiful reminder Jenhas given us to be open and
curious as we approach the worldaround us.
I have experienced that feelingshe described of following the
stepping stones toward healing,and being in awe of the people
that I meet along the way.
I literally just had aconversation with my friend Zana
(20:21):
about that very thing.
I've been searching for somesort of mentor figure.
And what I realized during thatconversation with Zana is that
I'm surrounded by mentors.
As I follow the curiositystepping stones, I am meeting
people who are supporting me andloving me in the ways that I
(20:41):
need.
Just like Jen said,
Jen Verruto (20:44):
always seeking and always remaining open and
leaning into knowing that it'sthere.
That we're okay.
It's like the, wherever you go,there you are.
Joy Blue (20:53):
Wherever you go.
There you are.
Thanks again, Jen, for the giftof your time.
If you've got a flavor of nerdthat you want me to celebrate, I
would love to hear all about it.
So go ahead and email me atherewearethepodcast@gmail.com
and tell me everything.
I love taking time to sit andmake space for nerd to be
celebrated.
(21:14):
If you really liked this podcastand want to financially support
what I'm doing, head on over toPatreon.com, search for Here We
Are The Podcast and sign up forone of the many beautifully
written support tiers that I'mvery proud of.
So until next time, don't forgetthat curiosity wins and the
world needs more nerds.
Bye
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