November 9, 2022 • 22 mins
Art and Activism have gone hand in hand for so long. But has it always happened through cross-stitch classes? It has now! Tune in to this week's episode to learn more about how cross-stitching builds community.
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Episode Transcript
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Joy Blue (00:10):
Welcome to Here We Are.
The podcast where we celebratethe beauty of being a nerd by
learning about nerdy things fromfellow nerds.
I'm your host, Joy Blue.
I have interviewed folks fromall across the nerd spectrum.
From the intricacies of gluesand adhesives, to the calmness
of fly fishing.
(00:32):
To the love of food, to thethrills of a Black Friday
well-planned.
And sometimes I just get metwith something new that blows my
mind.
Today's guest is one of those,and was introduced to me by John
P Marovich who talked aboutcreating space in episode 55.
(00:52):
Something you got to know isthat when John introduces you to
folks, you know they're goodhumans.
And if that isn't enough to getyou excited, how about knowing
that today's guest also has anamazing moniker.
So without further ado, here isShannon Downey to tell us all
about art activism.
Shannon Downey (01:12):
My name is Shannon Downey.
But on the internet I'm known asBadass Cross Stitch, and I am an
artist, craftivist, educator,instigator, strategist, all
around troublemaker.
Joy Blue (01:26):
I love this for you.
This is amazing.
What do you wanna nerd out abouttoday?
Shannon Downey (01:32):
I nerd out every day about the power of art in
activism and in changingpeople's hearts and minds.
Joy Blue (01:41):
Oh, this is exciting.
Shannon Downey (01:42):
yeah, let's talk about that.
Joy Blue (01:44):
Okay.
First of all, start with acouple definitions.
Can you define art?
Tell us.
If there's like a lane thatyou're in Or if we're talking
about art all in general, that'sfine, but also talk to me more
about what you mean by activism.
I would love to dive into thosefirst.
Shannon Downey (02:00):
Defining art, You know, that's a whole 40
minute, six hour podcast.
But, it's important to mebecause a lot of the work that I
make is fiber based.
So I do a lot of like embroideryand textile work, which
generally gets relegated to thisdefinition of craft.
Which I would argue is rooted inpatriarchy and capitalism and
(02:24):
and whatever.
And so when I talk about art andI talk about craft, I talk about
them as the same thing because Ithink that they are.
And a lot of people fight me onthat and whatever.
It's important to me to broadenhow we think about these
concepts, particularly if we'rethinking about them as tools
within activism.
Because when we start to createhierarchies and what's fine art
(02:48):
and what's craft and like, allwe're doing is continuing to
create these silos and thesecategories that like prioritize
one over the other.
And I think that craft mediumsare generally more accessible
and the cost of materials andthe time involved in just
learning how to get started,it's leveling, right?
(03:09):
Because there's such lowbarriers to entry.
Like I teach embroidery all thetime and I can teach anybody in
like 20 minutes how toembroider.
Like it's not hard.
And the materials cost, if we'regoing high end, like 10 bucks
you know, per person.
So it's like this really fun wayof creating access and being
(03:32):
able to bring people intocommunity and like they can
immediately be successful andfeel like, Oh, I can be an
artist.
And that is so interesting to meto be able to welcome people in
and to get them thinking aboutthemselves as artists, who've
never thought of themselves Inthat way because like maybe they
can't paint or they're not agood drawer, and it's like,
(03:55):
well, art is so much more thanthose two things.
But that's what we sell ingalleries and put on walls and
uplift as the masters and Wow.
Snooze,
Joy Blue (04:06):
Wow that's an amazing definition of art.
You haven't given yourdefinition of activism yet, but
so much of activism, from whatI've observed, is creating a
space for all the voices to beheard.
Which is what you're talkingabout, of having low barrier to
access, using what we have,creating a welcoming space where
(04:27):
there isn't a label you can justwalk in and be.
Shannon Downey (04:31):
Yeah.
it's so important.
There are wildly talentedartists.
Um, and I'm thinking like ofsome people in particular where
like they have been making sincechildhood, right?
Their skills in crochet, inknit, in sewing, and embroidery
and quilting are unparalleled intheir artisanship and they do
(04:55):
not think of themselves asartists.
Joy Blue (04:58):
Yeah.
Shannon Downey (04:59):
And so this is a conversation where I'm also
constantly pushing around justlike, why are you so afraid of
that identity?
What have people said to you tomake you feel that your work is
not the artistry that it is?
And it forces people to reallythink about what they've let in
and what they've let people tellthem about their worth.
Joy Blue (05:20):
Yeah, I've had that own journey for myself with the
word creative and creativity,
Shannon Downey (05:25):
Sure.
Joy Blue (05:25):
I'm a linear thinker.
I'm like, give me a prompt.
I'll get stuff done, but don'texpect me to be the ideator.
For me, ideator and creative gotogether, but creative can be so
many more things than that.
Shannon Downey (05:41):
You literally created a podcast,
Joy Blue (05:44):
Yep.
and here we are.
Shannon Downey (05:47):
You are a creator,
Joy Blue (05:49):
Yeah it's just been an interesting journey.
And I love that you again, aremaking that journey accessible
to anyone around you.
That's legit.
Okay.
Tell me your definition ofactivism.
Shannon Downey (06:01):
Mm.
I mean that idea of all voicesheard, accessibility.
But also like I have a, a prettystringent outlook on, activism
in terms of strategicallyworking towards social or
political change, right?
Outcomes matter and processmatters and who's included and
(06:21):
what voices are being upliftedand centered matter.
And so for me, the idea of theoutcome matters a lot.
Whereas like with my art and artin general like, I don't
actually think the outcomematters all that much.
I think it's the process.
I think it's the adventure, thejourney, and sometimes the
outcome matters and sometimes itjust doesn't.
But when we come around toactivism, like outcomes totally
(06:46):
matter.
And the process matters, butit's outcome driven for me.
Joy Blue (06:51):
That is so interesting.
Okay.
What's your origin story withboth of these?
Shannon Downey (06:56):
I grew up in the labor movement, like my dad was
president in the Bostonpipefitters, and so for me,
activism was like in my blood.
It was in what I did every day.
There were always a millionpeople in my house, and it was
always fun because we weremaking signs and we were like
making art together to then gostand on a picket line, right?
(07:20):
So I'm like six and my house isfull of strangers and we're
making stuff and we're eatingpizza.
And it's so loud and chaotic andsuper fun and everybody's
yelling about everything that'shappening.
And like for me, that was great!
Joy Blue (07:34):
Yeah.
Shannon Downey (07:35):
And it's always been just sort of a core of my
humanness and what I worked on,what I believe has shifted
Joy Blue (07:43):
Yeah.
Shannon Downey (07:44):
over the course of my life.
But, truly believe I'm here tojust make life better for as
many people as I can and likework alongside people listen to
what they want and need and thensupport that work in whatever
way that I can.
And, As an artist, it's veryfunny.
Like I did not make art until Idon't know, 12 years ago, 15
(08:07):
years ago.
Like I was always creative.
I was a dancer.
I made stuff.
It never fit into the categoryof, what we just talked about in
terms of what is art, what iscraft, and whatever.
And it was interesting growingup with my brother, who's like
an insanely talented artist,particularly in the traditional
(08:28):
mediums.
Like he can draw anything, hecan paint anything.
It's spectacular.
And so, there wasn't room fortwo artists in the family
Joy Blue (08:39):
Yeah.
That makes total sense.
Shannon Downey (08:41):
So I wasn't.
And about, I don't know, like 15years ago, I started digital
marketing company as one does,and ran it for 10 years,
Joy Blue (08:51):
naturally.
Shannon Downey (08:52):
and by year eight, I was like so burnt out
from being connected to a deviceall the time.
Right.
Cause I had to be.
Joy Blue (09:00):
Right.
Shannon Downey (09:00):
and I was on Etsy cuz connected to a device.
I came across this cross stitchpattern for, Captain Picard from
Star Trek.
And nobody loves him more than Ido.
And I was like, Oh my God,obviously I need to buy this.
And like, I learned how to crossstitch in fifth grade, but I had
to make a pink bunny with a blueeye.
Joy Blue (09:22):
Oh
Shannon Downey (09:22):
I was like, Wow, bunnies aren't pink.
They don't have blue eyes.
This is stupid.
What am I supposed to do withthis?
But I really loved my fifthgrade teacher, so I learned.
And I made that one thing, andthen I didn't make again until I
came across the Star Trekpattern.
Joy Blue (09:38):
Hmm
Shannon Downey (09:39):
Which coincidentally is why in my
workshops, like whenever I'mteaching art, I refuse to tell
people what content to make.
I will teach them how to use themedium and let them decide if
they connect with the medium,because I never want the content
to get in the way of themdeciding if this is their
medium, which is what happenedto me.
Joy Blue (10:00):
Right.
Shannon Downey (10:01):
So I stitched Captain Picard and I had great
joy.
And the next day I was like, Ohmy God, I just had three good
ideas.
I haven't had a good idea inlike months.
And so I started stitching everyday just as a way to create some
digital/analog balance in mylife.
And then it was like game onwhen I realized that I loved
(10:24):
this medium.
And, I truly believe I can doanything with a needle and
thread everything that I can'tdo with a pencil or a
paintbrush, I can do with aneedle and thread.
And then connecting thestitching to the activism work
that I was deeply involved in,created this whole new pathway
to connect with people.
(10:44):
Like, people were just like, Iwanna learn how to do that.
I love what you're doing here.
It's so funny to see crossstitch that doesn't say home,
Sweet Home, but know, f thesystem.
And I'm like, You could do ittoo.
And so I was like, I can trickpeople into getting into a room
with me to hang out.
I'll teach them to Embroider.
But really what we're gonna dois talk about all the things
(11:07):
that you're not supposed to talkabout with strangers in a room.
This is gonna be great.
And literally it's been likenonstop.
I've had hundreds of thousandsof people sit in space with me
and learn to stitch and, andtalk about all the things you're
not supposed to talk about and,and like, take action on the
(11:28):
things that they care deeplyabout.
And so really folks taking onthe identity of activists that
they never, ever would've takenthat identity on.
The same as taking on theidentity as artists.
So it's been fascinating.
And I just kept following itbecause it was like, I think
there's something in this that Inever, ever would've thought
(11:49):
could be the key to gettingpeople to think about the world
differently and getting them totake action on things that they
care about just by stitchingwith me...
like what?
Joy Blue (11:59):
I am in awe of that.
Shannon Downey (12:01):
I know! I'm in awe of it.
I can't believe it still works.
Joy Blue (12:05):
Well, so much of what you're doing is bringing about
what we need as humans.
Like I'm hearing you say thatyou're a facilitator and you
create safety in a space forpeople to be seen and to belong
and be part of something.
But also people are awkwardsometimes, so you're giving them
(12:25):
something to do with their handsat the same time, which often
then unlocks the thoughts andthe words, and that's all part
of building community and beinga good citizen and like seeing
the humanity of the peoplearound you.
It sounds like that's just whatyou live and breathe.
Shannon Downey (12:46):
Yeah, basically.
It's been interesting to likesort of try to dissect why it's
working so much.
and just, like I said, hundredsof thousands of people I've
literally worked with.
One of the bigger challenges isjust getting people to like be
in space with each other and notbe on their devices.
and it is not pleasant to betold to put away your device,
(13:08):
especially if that's a safetypoint for you.
Joy Blue (13:11):
Correct.
Shannon Downey (13:12):
If I say nothing, but I hand you
something to do with both ofyour hands, that is fun, you no
longer think about your phone.
Additionally, you're using yourhands in the same tactile way
that you use a phone.
So you don't even have thatphysical need that comes when we
sometimes, put down our deviceand then we're like, what do I
(13:32):
do with my hands?
You know?
So there's that.
And then there's the addedbenefit of you're in a space
with people.
And somebody might say somethingthat like super triggers you,
right?
I can create as safe a space asthe people in the room will
allow
Joy Blue (13:48):
Right.
Shannon Downey (13:49):
I don't guarantee a comfortable space.
I guarantee a safe space.
I don't guarantee a comfortablespace and huge difference.
And I think a lot of people, Ithink all of us need to be
uncomfortable.
And we need to get comfortablewith being uncomfortable.
Like all we do is seek comfortand that's how, you know so many
(14:11):
things just stay the same.
So having people in a spacethat's safe, but maybe not
comfortable you're stitching.
Your head is down.
You're working on this thing,you're talking to each other.
If somebody triggers something,One, you don't have any of the
like face to face sort of bodyresponses because nobody's
(14:34):
looking at anybody.
Usually things escalate based onbody language.
So we've removed body languagemore or less.
Also, you're working onsomething.
So there's no expectation thatyou're gonna be deeply involved
in this conversation at alltimes.
So if you get triggered oryou're like, Oh, I need a minute
to think about that, or I don'thave a response to that, nobody
(14:55):
expects you to, you can justsort of go back to what you're
doing.
You can take a beat.
It's slow, it's meditative, andthen when you're ready, you can
either jump back in or you justdon't have to.
And It takes a lot of thepressure off.
Additionally like embroidery isslow, you know, it's, it's
methodical, so the whole energyin the room is slower just as a
(15:20):
result of what we're working on.
So it really has the perfectcocktail for making sure that
these spaces can be productive,but they aren't escalating.
Everybody gets to be heard.
Everybody gets to say what theywanna say, and it's generally
wildly supportive.
Joy Blue (15:37):
Huh,
Shannon Downey (15:38):
It's magical.
Joy Blue (15:40):
What a gift, frankly.
Shannon Downey (15:41):
Yeah.
it's, it is a gift.
Joy Blue (15:43):
I mean, that's an oasis.
That's the ability to go slowand exist as your slow self in a
space with other people who arealso at the same pace.
Shannon Downey (15:53):
totally.
Joy Blue (15:54):
Wow.
Shannon Downey (15:55):
Yeah.
it's a rare occurrence in theworld, so I feel so lucky that
people trust me to do this.
And that they'll come.
And that they'll participateeven when it's uncomfortable.
Joy Blue (16:08):
Yeah.
Wow.
What have you learned aboutyourself in the middle of this?
Shannon Downey (16:12):
That I am really good at bringing people
together, right?
Because I love people.
And they're complicated andwe're messy and like we don't do
everything right and there is noright.
And so it's really good to beable to be in these spaces with
that perspective so that I canmeet the needs of everybody in
(16:37):
the room.
Joy Blue (16:38):
Yeah.
Shannon Downey (16:39):
I think too, like sometime, when you're
younger, like you just sort of,I don't even know if it's an age
thing, it might just be amaturity thing.
We'll put it at that, like aless mature me, would wanna be
the star in the room.
I have no interest in that andthat has made this possible.
Like for me, it is notsuccessful if I leave that space
(17:02):
and what was created theredoesn't carry on.
That's a failure, like an epicfail for me.
So for me, I will be thecatalyst that brings you all
together.
I'll model and demonstrate howwe can create these spaces and
how we can treat each other.
And then the objective is that Ileave.
But you all keep doing this.
(17:22):
And it's so exciting when I seeit happen real time.
A lot of times I, I hear aboutit after.
But when I get to see it realtime, like there was one
recently in Salt Lake City andwe weren't even halfway through
the event, and this person waslike, We have to keep doing
this.
Right?
We all agree that we have tokeep doing this.
(17:43):
And I was like, You should keepdoing this.
And she's like, Okay, I'm gonnagather everybody's emails and,
and like now they meet regularlyand they didn't know each other
before it, you know?
So That is that's my vision of awin.
Is like I can just pop in, teachyou some stuff, hang out, have a
joke, have some fun, and thenwhen I leave, you want that
(18:04):
again.
Joy Blue (18:05):
Wow.
So what I think I'm hearing yousay is you are comfortable in
yourself to such a degree thatwhen you show up in the room,
you show up as you for the sakeof community.
Shannon Downey (18:20):
Perfect summation.
I mean, feels like this is thefirst time in my life where I'm
like 100% comfortable and feellike this is what I'm supposed
to be doing.
This is what I'm meant to do inthis world.
Joy Blue (18:36):
I mean, that's also the essence of leadership.
That's the essence of growth andthe essence of curiosity is
continuing to look forward andsay, What can I do to be more me
in this moment?
Shannon Downey (18:48):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (18:49):
and it sounds like that's not only what you enable
in groups, but that's fully whatyou've done for yourself.
Shannon Downey (18:56):
Yes.
Thank you, I mean, I, it reallyis a gift to myself to be where
I'm at, just feeling like I am akind and loving person and I
also have excellent boundariesfor myself and will not tolerate
the nonsense.
Joy Blue (19:12):
Yeah.
Shannon Downey (19:13):
But they're not in opposition to each other.
And I think that's key.
Is that that idea of like, Ishow up as a kind and loving
person, but also, don't show upas your worst self towards me
and expect me to welcome thatwith open arms cuz I don't.
Joy Blue (19:32):
That's amazing.
Okay, final question.
What do you wish people knewabout art as activism or
activism or art?
What's just one thing if peopleremembered one thing?
Shannon Downey (19:45):
Everyone is totally capable of all of the
above.
Like you can have incredibleimpact in your own life, in the
lives of your family, community,globally.
If you just start doing stuff.
And it, it's not like you haveto do a lot.
It's just like a little bit allthe time adds up so much.
(20:08):
And so that's the thing I'malways pushing is like, Okay.
How can you do one more thingtomorrow?
And like, own that identity, Ownthe identity of artist.
If you make art, you're anartist.
Woo.
It's that simple.
Like you you get to have thatidentity.
If you take action, you get to,to call yourself an activist.
And we lose nothing when peopleown those identities.
(20:32):
Like the more people that ownthose identities, the better off
we are.
Like nobody loses.
And so that notion that honestlycapitalism has us, if it's not
what you do for pay, it's not anidentity you get to claim unless
you have a portfolio to provethis thing.
Like what garbage! Do you thinkof yourself as an artist?
(20:54):
Do you believe, do you make art?
You're an artist.
And so I'm all about everybodyowning all of their identities
and claiming them and notletting other people make them
feel like they don't have enoughin their portfolio of goods to,
um, to have that.
Joy Blue (21:13):
Everything you're talking about comes back to the
core of enoughness.
You have done the work to knowthat you are indeed enough.
And you create spaces wherepeople can show up and also
indeed be enough.
And then multiply that and rollwith it.
I mean, That is also so much ofwhat activism is.
Shannon Downey (21:31):
Yes,
Joy Blue (21:32):
what a gift it is to be able to sit here with you and
to share this space.
Shannon Downey (21:37):
Thanks for letting me talk
Joy Blue (21:40):
So here we are! So many of my conversations in the
past month or two have come backto the core of knowing your own,
knowing my own enoughness.
I love how Shannon embodies,enoughness.
How that overflows into theenvironments that she fosters.
And if this piqued yourinterest, as it did mine, head
over to Shannon's website: badasscrossstitch.com to see (22:02):
undefined
when and where she havingclasses and look at what art
activism physically looks like.
Shannon, thank you so much forthe gift of your time and for
how you foster communityeverywhere you go.
You are amazing.
If you've got a flavor of nerdthat you want me to celebrate, I
(22:25):
would love to hear all about it.
So go ahead and email me atherewearethepodcast@gmail.com
and tell me everything.
I love taking time to sit andmake space for nerd to be
celebrated.
If you really liked this podcastand want to financially support
what I'm doing, head on over topatreon.com.
Search for here we are thepodcast, and sign up for one of
(22:47):
the many beautifully writtensupport tiers that I'm very
proud of.
So until next time.
Don't forget that curiositywins.
And the world needs more nerdsBye
Welcome to Here We Are.
The podcast where we celebratethe beauty of being a nerd by
learning about nerdy things fromfellow nerds.
I'm your host, Joy Blue.
I have interviewed folks fromall across the nerd spectrum.
From the intricacies of gluesand adhesives, to the calmness
of fly fishing.
(00:32):
To the love of food, to thethrills of a Black Friday
well-planned.
And sometimes I just get metwith something new that blows my
mind.
Today's guest is one of those,and was introduced to me by John
P Marovich who talked aboutcreating space in episode 55.
(00:52):
Something you got to know isthat when John introduces you to
folks, you know they're goodhumans.
And if that isn't enough to getyou excited, how about knowing
that today's guest also has anamazing moniker.
So without further ado, here isShannon Downey to tell us all
about art activism.
Shannon Downey (01:12):
My name is Shannon Downey.
But on the internet I'm known asBadass Cross Stitch, and I am an
artist, craftivist, educator,instigator, strategist, all
around troublemaker.
Joy Blue (01:26):
I love this for you.
This is amazing.
What do you wanna nerd out abouttoday?
Shannon Downey (01:32):
I nerd out every day about the power of art in
activism and in changingpeople's hearts and minds.
Joy Blue (01:41):
Oh, this is exciting.
Shannon Downey (01:42):
yeah, let's talk about that.
Joy Blue (01:44):
Okay.
First of all, start with acouple definitions.
Can you define art?
Tell us.
If there's like a lane thatyou're in Or if we're talking
about art all in general, that'sfine, but also talk to me more
about what you mean by activism.
I would love to dive into thosefirst.
Shannon Downey (02:00):
Defining art, You know, that's a whole 40
minute, six hour podcast.
But, it's important to mebecause a lot of the work that I
make is fiber based.
So I do a lot of like embroideryand textile work, which
generally gets relegated to thisdefinition of craft.
Which I would argue is rooted inpatriarchy and capitalism and
(02:24):
and whatever.
And so when I talk about art andI talk about craft, I talk about
them as the same thing because Ithink that they are.
And a lot of people fight me onthat and whatever.
It's important to me to broadenhow we think about these
concepts, particularly if we'rethinking about them as tools
within activism.
Because when we start to createhierarchies and what's fine art
(02:48):
and what's craft and like, allwe're doing is continuing to
create these silos and thesecategories that like prioritize
one over the other.
And I think that craft mediumsare generally more accessible
and the cost of materials andthe time involved in just
learning how to get started,it's leveling, right?
(03:09):
Because there's such lowbarriers to entry.
Like I teach embroidery all thetime and I can teach anybody in
like 20 minutes how toembroider.
Like it's not hard.
And the materials cost, if we'regoing high end, like 10 bucks
you know, per person.
So it's like this really fun wayof creating access and being
(03:32):
able to bring people intocommunity and like they can
immediately be successful andfeel like, Oh, I can be an
artist.
And that is so interesting to meto be able to welcome people in
and to get them thinking aboutthemselves as artists, who've
never thought of themselves Inthat way because like maybe they
can't paint or they're not agood drawer, and it's like,
(03:55):
well, art is so much more thanthose two things.
But that's what we sell ingalleries and put on walls and
uplift as the masters and Wow.
Snooze,
Joy Blue (04:06):
Wow that's an amazing definition of art.
You haven't given yourdefinition of activism yet, but
so much of activism, from whatI've observed, is creating a
space for all the voices to beheard.
Which is what you're talkingabout, of having low barrier to
access, using what we have,creating a welcoming space where
(04:27):
there isn't a label you can justwalk in and be.
Shannon Downey (04:31):
Yeah.
it's so important.
There are wildly talentedartists.
Um, and I'm thinking like ofsome people in particular where
like they have been making sincechildhood, right?
Their skills in crochet, inknit, in sewing, and embroidery
and quilting are unparalleled intheir artisanship and they do
(04:55):
not think of themselves asartists.
Joy Blue (04:58):
Yeah.
Shannon Downey (04:59):
And so this is a conversation where I'm also
constantly pushing around justlike, why are you so afraid of
that identity?
What have people said to you tomake you feel that your work is
not the artistry that it is?
And it forces people to reallythink about what they've let in
and what they've let people tellthem about their worth.
Joy Blue (05:20):
Yeah, I've had that own journey for myself with the
word creative and creativity,
Shannon Downey (05:25):
Sure.
Joy Blue (05:25):
I'm a linear thinker.
I'm like, give me a prompt.
I'll get stuff done, but don'texpect me to be the ideator.
For me, ideator and creative gotogether, but creative can be so
many more things than that.
Shannon Downey (05:41):
You literally created a podcast,
Joy Blue (05:44):
Yep.
and here we are.
Shannon Downey (05:47):
You are a creator,
Joy Blue (05:49):
Yeah it's just been an interesting journey.
And I love that you again, aremaking that journey accessible
to anyone around you.
That's legit.
Okay.
Tell me your definition ofactivism.
Shannon Downey (06:01):
Mm.
I mean that idea of all voicesheard, accessibility.
But also like I have a, a prettystringent outlook on, activism
in terms of strategicallyworking towards social or
political change, right?
Outcomes matter and processmatters and who's included and
(06:21):
what voices are being upliftedand centered matter.
And so for me, the idea of theoutcome matters a lot.
Whereas like with my art and artin general like, I don't
actually think the outcomematters all that much.
I think it's the process.
I think it's the adventure, thejourney, and sometimes the
outcome matters and sometimes itjust doesn't.
But when we come around toactivism, like outcomes totally
(06:46):
matter.
And the process matters, butit's outcome driven for me.
Joy Blue (06:51):
That is so interesting.
Okay.
What's your origin story withboth of these?
Shannon Downey (06:56):
I grew up in the labor movement, like my dad was
president in the Bostonpipefitters, and so for me,
activism was like in my blood.
It was in what I did every day.
There were always a millionpeople in my house, and it was
always fun because we weremaking signs and we were like
making art together to then gostand on a picket line, right?
(07:20):
So I'm like six and my house isfull of strangers and we're
making stuff and we're eatingpizza.
And it's so loud and chaotic andsuper fun and everybody's
yelling about everything that'shappening.
And like for me, that was great!
Joy Blue (07:34):
Yeah.
Shannon Downey (07:35):
And it's always been just sort of a core of my
humanness and what I worked on,what I believe has shifted
Joy Blue (07:43):
Yeah.
Shannon Downey (07:44):
over the course of my life.
But, truly believe I'm here tojust make life better for as
many people as I can and likework alongside people listen to
what they want and need and thensupport that work in whatever
way that I can.
And, As an artist, it's veryfunny.
Like I did not make art until Idon't know, 12 years ago, 15
(08:07):
years ago.
Like I was always creative.
I was a dancer.
I made stuff.
It never fit into the categoryof, what we just talked about in
terms of what is art, what iscraft, and whatever.
And it was interesting growingup with my brother, who's like
an insanely talented artist,particularly in the traditional
(08:28):
mediums.
Like he can draw anything, hecan paint anything.
It's spectacular.
And so, there wasn't room fortwo artists in the family
Joy Blue (08:39):
Yeah.
That makes total sense.
Shannon Downey (08:41):
So I wasn't.
And about, I don't know, like 15years ago, I started digital
marketing company as one does,and ran it for 10 years,
Joy Blue (08:51):
naturally.
Shannon Downey (08:52):
and by year eight, I was like so burnt out
from being connected to a deviceall the time.
Right.
Cause I had to be.
Joy Blue (09:00):
Right.
Shannon Downey (09:00):
and I was on Etsy cuz connected to a device.
I came across this cross stitchpattern for, Captain Picard from
Star Trek.
And nobody loves him more than Ido.
And I was like, Oh my God,obviously I need to buy this.
And like, I learned how to crossstitch in fifth grade, but I had
to make a pink bunny with a blueeye.
Joy Blue (09:22):
Oh
Shannon Downey (09:22):
I was like, Wow, bunnies aren't pink.
They don't have blue eyes.
This is stupid.
What am I supposed to do withthis?
But I really loved my fifthgrade teacher, so I learned.
And I made that one thing, andthen I didn't make again until I
came across the Star Trekpattern.
Joy Blue (09:38):
Hmm
Shannon Downey (09:39):
Which coincidentally is why in my
workshops, like whenever I'mteaching art, I refuse to tell
people what content to make.
I will teach them how to use themedium and let them decide if
they connect with the medium,because I never want the content
to get in the way of themdeciding if this is their
medium, which is what happenedto me.
Joy Blue (10:00):
Right.
Shannon Downey (10:01):
So I stitched Captain Picard and I had great
joy.
And the next day I was like, Ohmy God, I just had three good
ideas.
I haven't had a good idea inlike months.
And so I started stitching everyday just as a way to create some
digital/analog balance in mylife.
And then it was like game onwhen I realized that I loved
(10:24):
this medium.
And, I truly believe I can doanything with a needle and
thread everything that I can'tdo with a pencil or a
paintbrush, I can do with aneedle and thread.
And then connecting thestitching to the activism work
that I was deeply involved in,created this whole new pathway
to connect with people.
(10:44):
Like, people were just like, Iwanna learn how to do that.
I love what you're doing here.
It's so funny to see crossstitch that doesn't say home,
Sweet Home, but know, f thesystem.
And I'm like, You could do ittoo.
And so I was like, I can trickpeople into getting into a room
with me to hang out.
I'll teach them to Embroider.
But really what we're gonna dois talk about all the things
(11:07):
that you're not supposed to talkabout with strangers in a room.
This is gonna be great.
And literally it's been likenonstop.
I've had hundreds of thousandsof people sit in space with me
and learn to stitch and, andtalk about all the things you're
not supposed to talk about and,and like, take action on the
(11:28):
things that they care deeplyabout.
And so really folks taking onthe identity of activists that
they never, ever would've takenthat identity on.
The same as taking on theidentity as artists.
So it's been fascinating.
And I just kept following itbecause it was like, I think
there's something in this that Inever, ever would've thought
(11:49):
could be the key to gettingpeople to think about the world
differently and getting them totake action on things that they
care about just by stitchingwith me...
like what?
Joy Blue (11:59):
I am in awe of that.
Shannon Downey (12:01):
I know! I'm in awe of it.
I can't believe it still works.
Joy Blue (12:05):
Well, so much of what you're doing is bringing about
what we need as humans.
Like I'm hearing you say thatyou're a facilitator and you
create safety in a space forpeople to be seen and to belong
and be part of something.
But also people are awkwardsometimes, so you're giving them
(12:25):
something to do with their handsat the same time, which often
then unlocks the thoughts andthe words, and that's all part
of building community and beinga good citizen and like seeing
the humanity of the peoplearound you.
It sounds like that's just whatyou live and breathe.
Shannon Downey (12:46):
Yeah, basically.
It's been interesting to likesort of try to dissect why it's
working so much.
and just, like I said, hundredsof thousands of people I've
literally worked with.
One of the bigger challenges isjust getting people to like be
in space with each other and notbe on their devices.
and it is not pleasant to betold to put away your device,
(13:08):
especially if that's a safetypoint for you.
Joy Blue (13:11):
Correct.
Shannon Downey (13:12):
If I say nothing, but I hand you
something to do with both ofyour hands, that is fun, you no
longer think about your phone.
Additionally, you're using yourhands in the same tactile way
that you use a phone.
So you don't even have thatphysical need that comes when we
sometimes, put down our deviceand then we're like, what do I
(13:32):
do with my hands?
You know?
So there's that.
And then there's the addedbenefit of you're in a space
with people.
And somebody might say somethingthat like super triggers you,
right?
I can create as safe a space asthe people in the room will
allow
Joy Blue (13:48):
Right.
Shannon Downey (13:49):
I don't guarantee a comfortable space.
I guarantee a safe space.
I don't guarantee a comfortablespace and huge difference.
And I think a lot of people, Ithink all of us need to be
uncomfortable.
And we need to get comfortablewith being uncomfortable.
Like all we do is seek comfortand that's how, you know so many
(14:11):
things just stay the same.
So having people in a spacethat's safe, but maybe not
comfortable you're stitching.
Your head is down.
You're working on this thing,you're talking to each other.
If somebody triggers something,One, you don't have any of the
like face to face sort of bodyresponses because nobody's
(14:34):
looking at anybody.
Usually things escalate based onbody language.
So we've removed body languagemore or less.
Also, you're working onsomething.
So there's no expectation thatyou're gonna be deeply involved
in this conversation at alltimes.
So if you get triggered oryou're like, Oh, I need a minute
to think about that, or I don'thave a response to that, nobody
(14:55):
expects you to, you can justsort of go back to what you're
doing.
You can take a beat.
It's slow, it's meditative, andthen when you're ready, you can
either jump back in or you justdon't have to.
And It takes a lot of thepressure off.
Additionally like embroidery isslow, you know, it's, it's
methodical, so the whole energyin the room is slower just as a
(15:20):
result of what we're working on.
So it really has the perfectcocktail for making sure that
these spaces can be productive,but they aren't escalating.
Everybody gets to be heard.
Everybody gets to say what theywanna say, and it's generally
wildly supportive.
Joy Blue (15:37):
Huh,
Shannon Downey (15:38):
It's magical.
Joy Blue (15:40):
What a gift, frankly.
Shannon Downey (15:41):
Yeah.
it's, it is a gift.
Joy Blue (15:43):
I mean, that's an oasis.
That's the ability to go slowand exist as your slow self in a
space with other people who arealso at the same pace.
Shannon Downey (15:53):
totally.
Joy Blue (15:54):
Wow.
Shannon Downey (15:55):
Yeah.
it's a rare occurrence in theworld, so I feel so lucky that
people trust me to do this.
And that they'll come.
And that they'll participateeven when it's uncomfortable.
Joy Blue (16:08):
Yeah.
Wow.
What have you learned aboutyourself in the middle of this?
Shannon Downey (16:12):
That I am really good at bringing people
together, right?
Because I love people.
And they're complicated andwe're messy and like we don't do
everything right and there is noright.
And so it's really good to beable to be in these spaces with
that perspective so that I canmeet the needs of everybody in
(16:37):
the room.
Joy Blue (16:38):
Yeah.
Shannon Downey (16:39):
I think too, like sometime, when you're
younger, like you just sort of,I don't even know if it's an age
thing, it might just be amaturity thing.
We'll put it at that, like aless mature me, would wanna be
the star in the room.
I have no interest in that andthat has made this possible.
Like for me, it is notsuccessful if I leave that space
(17:02):
and what was created theredoesn't carry on.
That's a failure, like an epicfail for me.
So for me, I will be thecatalyst that brings you all
together.
I'll model and demonstrate howwe can create these spaces and
how we can treat each other.
And then the objective is that Ileave.
But you all keep doing this.
(17:22):
And it's so exciting when I seeit happen real time.
A lot of times I, I hear aboutit after.
But when I get to see it realtime, like there was one
recently in Salt Lake City andwe weren't even halfway through
the event, and this person waslike, We have to keep doing
this.
Right?
We all agree that we have tokeep doing this.
(17:43):
And I was like, You should keepdoing this.
And she's like, Okay, I'm gonnagather everybody's emails and,
and like now they meet regularlyand they didn't know each other
before it, you know?
So That is that's my vision of awin.
Is like I can just pop in, teachyou some stuff, hang out, have a
joke, have some fun, and thenwhen I leave, you want that
(18:04):
again.
Joy Blue (18:05):
Wow.
So what I think I'm hearing yousay is you are comfortable in
yourself to such a degree thatwhen you show up in the room,
you show up as you for the sakeof community.
Shannon Downey (18:20):
Perfect summation.
I mean, feels like this is thefirst time in my life where I'm
like 100% comfortable and feellike this is what I'm supposed
to be doing.
This is what I'm meant to do inthis world.
Joy Blue (18:36):
I mean, that's also the essence of leadership.
That's the essence of growth andthe essence of curiosity is
continuing to look forward andsay, What can I do to be more me
in this moment?
Shannon Downey (18:48):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (18:49):
and it sounds like that's not only what you enable
in groups, but that's fully whatyou've done for yourself.
Shannon Downey (18:56):
Yes.
Thank you, I mean, I, it reallyis a gift to myself to be where
I'm at, just feeling like I am akind and loving person and I
also have excellent boundariesfor myself and will not tolerate
the nonsense.
Joy Blue (19:12):
Yeah.
Shannon Downey (19:13):
But they're not in opposition to each other.
And I think that's key.
Is that that idea of like, Ishow up as a kind and loving
person, but also, don't show upas your worst self towards me
and expect me to welcome thatwith open arms cuz I don't.
Joy Blue (19:32):
That's amazing.
Okay, final question.
What do you wish people knewabout art as activism or
activism or art?
What's just one thing if peopleremembered one thing?
Shannon Downey (19:45):
Everyone is totally capable of all of the
above.
Like you can have incredibleimpact in your own life, in the
lives of your family, community,globally.
If you just start doing stuff.
And it, it's not like you haveto do a lot.
It's just like a little bit allthe time adds up so much.
(20:08):
And so that's the thing I'malways pushing is like, Okay.
How can you do one more thingtomorrow?
And like, own that identity, Ownthe identity of artist.
If you make art, you're anartist.
Woo.
It's that simple.
Like you you get to have thatidentity.
If you take action, you get to,to call yourself an activist.
And we lose nothing when peopleown those identities.
(20:32):
Like the more people that ownthose identities, the better off
we are.
Like nobody loses.
And so that notion that honestlycapitalism has us, if it's not
what you do for pay, it's not anidentity you get to claim unless
you have a portfolio to provethis thing.
Like what garbage! Do you thinkof yourself as an artist?
(20:54):
Do you believe, do you make art?
You're an artist.
And so I'm all about everybodyowning all of their identities
and claiming them and notletting other people make them
feel like they don't have enoughin their portfolio of goods to,
um, to have that.
Joy Blue (21:13):
Everything you're talking about comes back to the
core of enoughness.
You have done the work to knowthat you are indeed enough.
And you create spaces wherepeople can show up and also
indeed be enough.
And then multiply that and rollwith it.
I mean, That is also so much ofwhat activism is.
Shannon Downey (21:31):
Yes,
Joy Blue (21:32):
what a gift it is to be able to sit here with you and
to share this space.
Shannon Downey (21:37):
Thanks for letting me talk
Joy Blue (21:40):
So here we are! So many of my conversations in the
past month or two have come backto the core of knowing your own,
knowing my own enoughness.
I love how Shannon embodies,enoughness.
How that overflows into theenvironments that she fosters.
And if this piqued yourinterest, as it did mine, head
over to Shannon's website: badasscrossstitch.com to see (22:02):
undefined
when and where she havingclasses and look at what art
activism physically looks like.
Shannon, thank you so much forthe gift of your time and for
how you foster communityeverywhere you go.
You are amazing.
If you've got a flavor of nerdthat you want me to celebrate, I
(22:25):
would love to hear all about it.
So go ahead and email me atherewearethepodcast@gmail.com
and tell me everything.
I love taking time to sit andmake space for nerd to be
celebrated.
If you really liked this podcastand want to financially support
what I'm doing, head on over topatreon.com.
Search for here we are thepodcast, and sign up for one of
(22:47):
the many beautifully writtensupport tiers that I'm very
proud of.
So until next time.
Don't forget that curiositywins.
And the world needs more nerdsBye
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