April 12, 2023 • 26 mins
When I met Marta at her London restaurant, Naughty Piglets, in August of 2022, I knew immediately that we'd be nerd friends. And let me tell you. We are.
This episode goes deep into the power of fermentation, how vinegars and acids impact food flavor, and the beauty of foraging. Enjoy the happiness!
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Episode Transcript
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Joy Blue (00:10):
Welcome to Here We Are.
The podcast where we celebratethe beauty of being a nerd by
learning about nerdy things fromfellow nerds.
I'm your host, Joy Blue.
After taking a little hiatus inorder to move, settle, and rest.
I am so excited to be back.
Moving forward, I will bereleasing episodes as I'm able
(00:31):
instead of weekly.
This gives me the flexibility toshift publishing to match my
freelance work style.
All of that to say today'sepisode is going to be a fan
favorite.
I just know it.
Brie and I met today's guest inAugust of 2022 in the heart of
London.
She's a creative, dynamic, andwhimsical human with a love for
(00:54):
crafting amazing food.
There's so much more I could sayabout her in this intro, but
instead, let me let her speakfor herself.
Without further ado.
Here's my friend, chef MartaSandini.
Marta Sandini (01:07):
I'm Marta.
I'm Italian, and I live inLondon.
I'm just a simple chef, which istrying to make people happy.
This is my main goal and I'm abig fermentation nerd.
And I didn't like vinegars untila few years ago.
Joy Blue (01:24):
What?
What do you mean you didn't likethem?
Marta Sandini (01:26):
I didn't like vinegar's fermentation in any of
my meals.
I discovered them when I movedto Slovenia to work for Hisa
Franco.
And that place introduced me toa different world of food
vinegars.
And there I start to realizethat that was my missing piece
of the puzzle in my tastebuds.
Joy Blue (01:47):
So the basic framework for cooking I have in my head,
um, is from Samine Nosrat, whereshe talks about, you know, salt,
fat, acid, and heat.
So what I just heard you say isyou're, you were missing acid.
Marta Sandini (02:01):
Yes,
Joy Blue (02:02):
Brie and I have been on an acid kick for quite a
while by incorporating citrusinto things, how does it lighten
it up?
But we haven't played withvinegars yet.
So can you tell me more aboutthat moment when your opinion
changed?
Because it sounds like you werevery firm.
(02:22):
No vinegars for.
Marta Sandini (02:24):
I was.
So what happened is I did a twoweek trial on this restaurant.
It's one of the 50 bestrestaurant in the world.
And I had to come up with a dishto convince the chef to work
there.
And I had a week to study hertaste, like, to understand what
she likes.
I don't like copy recipes.
(02:45):
I need to own taste.
So what happened (02:47):
just one day, I just found out we had Mochas,
you know, the mochas to makecoffee.
Joy Blue (02:53):
Yeah.
Marta Sandini (02:54):
So she asked me for a warm, savory walnut dish.
So I thought about coffee, and Idon't like coffee.
I'm a real fake Italian.
I don't drink wine.
I don't.
Joy Blue (03:06):
Fake Italian.
Marta Sandini (03:09):
But in my head, coffee was working.
And coffee's quite acid.
As a bitter acid.
Um, so in that coffee, I mix theCaffe coffee with uh, Portini
powder.
Joy Blue (03:23):
Oh,
Marta Sandini (03:24):
Make a coffee and then I added salt and I made
that cheese and walnut make foamto make kind of a cappuccino.
Joy Blue (03:32):
what?
Marta Sandini (03:33):
Yeah, I have no idea how that come up.
Like I have no idea where it washiding in my head.
This thing.
It came out and she put it atthe end and she put it on her
book
Joy Blue (03:43):
Wow.
Marta Sandini (03:44):
put my name on the book, so I have it here
downstairs is my name with myown recipe.
Joy Blue (03:50):
That's amazing.
Marta Sandini (03:52):
From that moment I realized I was missing the
acid flavor.
And then she was just adding alot of, cause there's a lot of
pickles and fermentation inSlovenia.
Cause East Europe, kind ofnorth, it's not just start
incorporate that and now I can'tlive without.
Joy Blue (04:08):
Yeah.
Marta Sandini (04:09):
you saw the, elderflower vinegar.
You saw all my baby jars.
Joy Blue (04:14):
Yep.
Marta Sandini (04:15):
So now I need to have them in every dish.
Dessert as well.
Joy Blue (04:19):
Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly.
So for a little background forour listeners, I met you last
August when we happened to stayat the hotel that happened to be
next to the restaurant where youwere.
We were like, I don't know, thislooks like fun.
We walked in, got seated, andended up having the literal best
(04:43):
food experience I've ever had inmy life.
I still think about you and talkabout you to people all the
time.
And so I remember walking in andbeing like, excuse me, what?
They're seating us next to thisopen kitchen.
And I'm looking around justseeing all of these jars and I'm
like, oh, dear Lord, I am soexcited about this.
(05:03):
And I remember just asking like,what are these?
I need somebody to tell me aboutthese.
And you came out and you had mycuriosity from the first moment.
So I've, I've played around withsome ferments.
I've done kombucha.
I've done a little bit of likehome pick I do sour dough.
And so to see the actualpossibilities, like you're not
(05:28):
just doing a basic ferment.
You're playing with all kinds ofthings.
Marta Sandini (05:35):
Oh yeah.
Joy Blue (05:36):
tell me, how did you get started on this fermentation
journey?
What did you start with andwhat's been your favorite?
Marta Sandini (05:43):
So I start with simple vinegars.
Um, I got myself a NomaFermentation book.
Joy Blue (05:50):
Mm-hmm.
Marta Sandini (05:51):
Start with that to understand the basic things.
And then I did during lockdown,I was bored.
I didn't know what to do.
So I discovered a bunch ofcourses with Harvard University
and like science in cuisine.
And I fermentation.
So I took those courses tounderstand even better, all the
chems and all the other weirdthings around that.
(06:13):
And I was working in Allegra,another restaurant in London,
and I started to do a blackberryvinegars.
And there was another one of thesous chefs who's now calling me
a Nouveau Nonna cause I don'thave a label for myself.
So he understood that I'm a NuNona basically.
Joy Blue (06:30):
Uh huh.
Marta Sandini (06:31):
We were just getting along with all this
weirdness and nerdiness aboutfermentation and, and then he
left.
So I kept going and I build uplike a shelf just for myself.
Like we peach vinegar,clementine vinegar, burned
clementine vinegar, citruskombucha, coffee kombucha, maple
kombucha, kombucha.
All different, so that you canuse everywhere you want.
Joy Blue (06:53):
Hmm.
Marta Sandini (06:54):
And then you have the blackberries pickle in a
blackberry vinegar.
So it is giving a second life toa second choice ingredient kind
of.
Joy Blue (07:06):
Hmm
Marta Sandini (07:07):
I feel that we need to take out the most out of
everything.
I thought that's it.
My favorite is the, elder flowerseason.
So coming soon.
I love the smell.
I love the, like take me backhome.
Back home.
Like uh, I used to go foragingevery five minutes or so.
Cause I live in the countrysidein Italy.
(07:27):
So it's just the smell of theelderflower.
I used to make these giant 25liter jars of just cordial.
Cause I going, picking andstealing all the flower of the
town.
Joy Blue (07:41):
That's amazing.
Marta Sandini (07:43):
just, and then here I realized what if I can do
vinegars with that?
What if I can do oil with that.
So I start to change and havedifferent bunch of everything.
Joy Blue (07:54):
That's amazing.
Break down for me how you make avinegar.
Marta Sandini (08:00):
So you can start with a mother vinegar.
Joy Blue (08:02):
Okay.
Marta Sandini (08:03):
It's the non filter that has all the sediment
uh, apple cider vinegar or ricewine vinegar, whatever.
And you can set, and then you'regonna just build the SCOBY
itself.
Joy Blue (08:15):
So it's a lot like kombucha.
Marta Sandini (08:17):
It's like kombucha, but with no sugar,
basically.
Joy Blue (08:20):
Fascinating.
So what is it feeding off of?
Marta Sandini (08:23):
I leave the fruit inside, so all the sugar is
coming from the fruit.
So the SCOBY is eating all thesugar from the fruit.
So every now and then, I'm justrefreshing everything
Joy Blue (08:34):
Wow.
Marta Sandini (08:35):
SCOBYs now are like steaks basically.
Joy Blue (08:37):
believe it.
Marta Sandini (08:38):
And I have a lot of SCOBY children running
around.
Joy Blue (08:42):
Running around by themselves.
Marta Sandini (08:44):
Yeah, they just woo and, and, or, or, the
easiest way to do it is takelike a plain vinegar, which I
love the rice wine
Joy Blue (08:56):
Uhhuh.
Marta Sandini (08:56):
cause not that punchy.
Um, for the peach vinegar andfor the elderflower vinegar, I
use the rice wine vinegar.
Joy Blue (09:07):
Wow.
Okay.
I'm gonna pause real quick andbreak down what you just said
for folks that don't doferments.
So a SCOBY is like thiscellulose disc that kind of
looks like floating skin, and itusually sits at the top of a
jar.
It's.
A symbiotic culture of bacteriaand yeast, S C O B Y.
(09:29):
That's why they call it a scoby.
And basically what the scoby'sdoing is eating sugar out of the
mix, and then it is pooping out,for lack of better words, acid.
So what we're actually makingthen is the waste product of the
Scoby.
So to keep the Scoby alive, itneeds natural sugars in order to
(09:50):
do its digestive, uh, job.
And then the byproduct of thatare these wonderful ferments
that you use liberally.
Marta Sandini (10:03):
Yeah.
I use them everywhere.
Joy Blue (10:05):
What is the most unexpected place you use it?
Marta Sandini (10:08):
Sorbet.
Joy Blue (10:09):
Really.
Marta Sandini (10:11):
Yeah.
I use, um, there's a fruit inItalian is ole I think in here
or in around the world, it'slike
Joy Blue (10:20):
Okay.
Marta Sandini (10:21):
Okay.
Um, so I got a second choice,that means that he is not the
great first produce, but youhave like a second hand fruit.
Um, I didn't wanna throw themaway and they suggested I should
buy them.
So I got a box and I did a popupwith that last year.
Um, so I got them all.
I skinned them off.
(10:42):
So with the skin, I did thevinegar.
And then the sorbet was reallygood, really sweet.
And then I decided to add thevinegar to the sorbet.
And then, because I'm Italianfrom Veneto region, where the
Grappa is
Joy Blue (10:57):
Uh
Marta Sandini (10:57):
like, and I don't like Grappa.
So I add a shot of grappa to thekind of affogatto
Joy Blue (11:04):
Mm-hmm.
Marta Sandini (11:06):
But yeah, the, the sorbet was weird, but it was
so refreshing because of theacid and the vinegar, and there
was no lemon at all.
It was just the vinegar.
So then in my head, like adessert now, now I'm putting
Maldon salt on a coconuts icecream because I kind of flavor
(11:26):
to play with your mind.
I need you to stop and thinkabout it
Joy Blue (11:31):
Mm-hmm.
Marta Sandini (11:32):
kinda.
It's like it's something thatyou know, but you actually
don't.
Joy Blue (11:37):
Yeah.
And that's something we, weexperienced when we ate with
you.
You gave me the recipe to thismagical sauce, and that was the
first time I had ever had like aliterally mind blowing flavor
experience.
At your restaurant, it was onpork and I remember just eating
the pork by itself and theneating the pork with the sauce
(11:58):
and my entire world flipped allat once.
Something you came out and toldus was, I want you to feel at
home.
I want you to feel like you'rehere with me.
And not only did you actuallycome out and join us for this
experience, it did feel likehome.
But like I knew it, but I neverknew it.
Marta Sandini (12:20):
yes.
This is what I would like forall the people coming to the
restaurant to experience.
Cause I'm first, I'm Italian andI'm coming from a big family.
So we love gather together overa table of food.
Joy Blue (12:32):
Yes.
Marta Sandini (12:33):
But also I'm living with my brother here in
London.
But I'm spending most of thetime in the, in a kitchen, in a
restaurant.
And my frontals, my chefs are myfamily.
And so all the people that arecoming in, I want you to enter a
place and see, oh, this is like,this is very welcoming.
This is like me feel happy.
(12:54):
If you're happy, I'm doublehappy.
This is, I think the word needsmore happiness.
Joy Blue (12:59):
Yeah.
something I've observedeverywhere I go around the world
is that the best things happenaround the table, around food.
Marta Sandini (13:07):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (13:08):
It is a gathering place.
It is a place where everybody'sequal.
There's something so valuableabout multiple people having a
shared experience.
And so then you now have theshared language that goes with
that experience, and that'sbonding.
So being able to go to where youwere at and experience your
humanity next to the amazingnessof the food that you served us
(13:32):
was ridiculous because what Iexperienced with you is there's
no power distance.
You're not some distant chef inthe back.
Marta Sandini (13:40):
Oh, no, no, no.
Joy Blue (13:41):
You're with the people.
Marta Sandini (13:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, like, I'm gonna just tellyou something that is very
weird.
Like I'm, I'm turning 32 thisyear and it is, um, 10 years
that I'm around.
Um, I start, when I was 21, Imoved to Australia and then
China, Italy, Slovenia, brieflyNew York.
And then London is my thirdtime.
(14:04):
I've been working in all theseplaces.
Food is just not one of thething I remember.
I remember all the people Iworked with, or I met,
Joy Blue (14:14):
Yes.
Marta Sandini (14:15):
those of them have been inspired to cook or to
create something because I metso many people from all over the
world, and it's just veryinspiring knowing them and
understand them.
And I don't really remember themenu I was cooking when I was in
Australia.
But I do remember Luca andSophia, the guys I used to work
with, or Jess.
(14:35):
So I just remember the people.
Like, I remember you, and now Imade friend with you.
And that is so powerful.
It is like influencing me tocook, play food.
Joy Blue (14:48):
I love that so much.
Like I was honestly shocked whenyou were like, oh yeah, here's
the recipe.
I was like, excuse me, what?
you're a normal human and you'resharing the beauty of your nerd.
Marta Sandini (15:02):
Yeah, I'm very normal.
I'm a people person.
I, I need people to survive thiswork.
Joy Blue (15:08):
Uh, yeah.
Marta Sandini (15:10):
man, I'm very happy the way I am and I don't.
Joy Blue (15:14):
it.
I, I love it so much.
When we met, pretty quick, wewere like, can we follow you
somewhere?
How can we support you?
And so that's how we ended upbeing, Instagram friends.
And then I just, I made thesauce, I sent you a picture, and
then I was like, Hey, what areyou working on right now?
And you sent me this whole listof things you're working on
right now.
(15:35):
Just for kicks and giggles, whatare you working on right now?
Like what has your curiosity,what are you playing with?
Marta Sandini (15:41):
So now bear in mind.
I don't drink alcohol.
Joy Blue (15:44):
Okay.
Marta Sandini (15:45):
I am a fake Italian, I don't drink.
Maybe I'm adopt, I dunno, but Idon't drink,
Joy Blue (15:50):
You're welcome here,
Marta Sandini (15:52):
I like turning things into alcohol.
So last year I started inVictoria where you came to eat,
hazelnut miso from scratch withmy, uh, rice Koji.
and this year I said, well, youknow what?
Because the restaurant is callednaughty piglets, make a naughty
nutella.
So, and I don't like chocolateas well.
(16:16):
It's another fact.
I don't like chocolate.
Joy Blue (16:18):
Fascinating.
Marta Sandini (16:19):
In Italy we have this chocolate liquor and here
is illegal to buy 96% alcohol tomake.
So I got, my mom sent me abottle and I infused the
chocolate that is, uh, 75%chocolate from our very nice
brand we're using at therestaurant.
infuse that in alcohol for aweek, and then I strain that.
(16:41):
Smell like chocolate.
And then I did something weird.
I did the syrup with the hazelmiso.
I wasn't expecting to be thatgood, just syrup.
So then I strained the syrup,put it together with the the
alcohol, and then I say, whynot?
I have the chocolate.
So I just melt the chocolate,and now I made these amazing
(17:03):
liquors that I have in bottles.
And in my head, this can bereally working with a condensed
milk ice cream afogatto, I canjust use this as a sauce for the
ice cream.
Joy Blue (17:14):
Wow.
Marta Sandini (17:15):
Or recently I did a scallop ceviche dish with a
leche de tigre.
And leche de tigre is a recipefrom Asia, I guess.
Maybe.
With a lot of sesame oil,citrus, coconut milk, lime,
lemongrass, all this.
And in my head was, about theelderflower season coming up.
(17:39):
I'm thinking to do a leche detigre with the elderflower oil
and the elderflower vinegar togo together with strawberry and
a scallop ceviche.
Joy Blue (17:48):
Wow.
Marta Sandini (17:49):
Oh, now it's the wild garlic season.
So I have oil.
I made the wild garlic oil jam.
Um, well, it's all this stuffthat I'm very weird and nerd
about.
every day that I can put my handon something fresh coming, if
it's foraged, even better,
Joy Blue (18:07):
Yeah.
Marta Sandini (18:08):
and it's just starting, like engine is going.
Joy Blue (18:12):
Okay.
So say you're foraging, youfind, a mushroom, an edible
mushroom.
What happens in your brain?
Because it seems like your brainis just like a encyclopedia of
all the things, and you're like,what if?
What if?
What if?
What if?
Marta Sandini (18:27):
Per se, I just need to find the right draw to
pull out.
Like I can see, oh, who havehere.
Um, it depend on mushroom causeI love foraging and I.
Much, a lot of mushroom.
So in my head I Is is like it.
It can even be a song.
With a song I can come up withsomething as well.
If you put on a song now, I'lltell you with this song what I,
(18:48):
what dish I can plate and it,it's weird.
I think sometimes I think I'mjust crazy.
Joy Blue (18:53):
No, I think you're brilliant.
This is what brilliance is madeof.
This is like the ultimate levelof creativity.
Marta Sandini (19:00):
well, thank you.
I'll take that.
Cause then so far I was justthinking I'm crazy.
Joy Blue (19:05):
Nah.
Marta Sandini (19:07):
But yeah, with the mushroom, like if you have a
porcini depend on which Porciniit is, how old it is.
Cause you can see and you canfeel how old it is.
It can be a crudo, a simplecrudo with lemon oil, salt and
pepper.
That's it.
Or it can be, uh, sauce, ausauce for a pasta for a risotto.
Or now we are back therepoaching the morans for a steak
(19:30):
tartare.
And, cause I don't travelanything
Joy Blue (19:38):
That's amazing.
Your brain feels like a magicalplace that I want to visit and
just sit and watch.
Marta Sandini (19:48):
You can come in when you want, it's like a
twenty-four seven here.
Joy Blue (19:53):
I'm the same way, but just with different things.
What I love.
Celebrating is that thing thatpeople love talking about that
makes their whole bodies lightup.
That makes, you know, it mightbe super niche, it might be
super nerdy, but it awakens you,which then has an impact on the
people around.
Marta Sandini (20:14):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (20:16):
I mean, I still can't get over that meal that we had,
and that was back in August.
Marta Sandini (20:21):
I was back in August.
That's true.
I just told you that seems likea year ago.
It was just August.
Joy Blue (20:25):
It also seems like just yesterday,
Marta Sandini (20:27):
Yeah, at the same time.
Joy Blue (20:28):
very confusing.
Marta Sandini (20:30):
But see, because of food now you are my friend.
Joy Blue (20:33):
I
Marta Sandini (20:33):
You are are my friend and Lisa as well cuz she
followed me as well onInstagram.
Joy Blue (20:38):
Yeah, we're all here
Marta Sandini (20:40):
See like the people, like the importance of
people.
Joy Blue (20:45):
Yeah.
We can't do things withoutpeople.
We're meant to be in acommunity.
Marta Sandini (20:49):
Yes,
Joy Blue (20:50):
Okay.
What is something that you wantpeople to try?
Marta Sandini (20:54):
I would like people use food as a bonding
moment, as a magical place tobe.
It's not more about the fooditself, like the taste, but
again, it's because of thepeople.
We need more, more kindness.
So I invite people to go forgingtogether in the forest just
because it's beautiful andsometimes instead of just
(21:16):
looking the pavement of down,like down look up.
Joy Blue (21:20):
Yeah,
Marta Sandini (21:21):
just losing a lot of magical moments up there.
Like that is the most beautifulpart, part of foraging.
Not just discovering and findingthe award, this the mushroom or
the leaf or the flower.
It's just the moment itself.
It's just mo, it's just littlemoments.
It's not just about food, it'sjust everything that is around.
(21:43):
I dunno, it's difficult toexplain,
Joy Blue (21:46):
No, but what I'm hearing you say is it's the
magic of being present,
Marta Sandini (21:50):
yes,
Joy Blue (21:51):
like be here now,
Marta Sandini (21:52):
yes,
Joy Blue (21:53):
like when you're experiencing something new, talk
about it.
Marta Sandini (21:57):
yes,
Joy Blue (21:58):
Like what I heard you say with create a bonding moment
with that food is like, Exactlywhat Brie and Lisa and I did at
your restaurant is we sat thereand we were like, excuse me,
what is going on here?
And we had a whole discussionabout it and it opened up
avenues for, for us to learnabout each other.
Marta Sandini (22:15):
Exactly.
It's not just food, it's themoment itself.
Joy Blue (22:20):
It's so magical,
Marta Sandini (22:22):
this is what I'm expecting people to do more in
the future like or I would likepeople to do.
I'm just gonna sit down and havea chat with you or hug you or
just talk to you, or this is,this is just me being me,
Joy Blue (22:36):
Yeah, I have a very similar feeling.
I absolutely love having peopleover and I love cooking and I
love providing.
I will work all day on food justfor fun, but my favorite moment
is sitting down and watchingpeople experience what I've
made.
Marta Sandini (22:52):
Yeah, it is my favorite moment as well when I'm
in the kitchen.
Like example now.
Now have a tiramisu as adessert.
That is a choux with a tiramisuFilling inside and the coconut
ice cream with maldon salt andit's like a wow moment.
Cause when you cut it open itsays, whoa, this cream.
So I like to see people eating.
(23:12):
Or I like to see people eatingthe pickle tomatoes that I'm
doing now, which is like, again,playing with your head.
So just seeing the little momentwhen a person is putting in his
mouth, out her mouth somethingand he is like, whoa, yes.
This is what I'm looking for.
That is my moment of, yes, welldone.
You make someone happy, soyou're making someone happy.
(23:34):
This is all I want.
Like taking care of people,leave them happy and then going
home happy.
Joy Blue (23:40):
Yeah, you're changing the world.
One meal at a time.
Marta Sandini (23:43):
yeah, that is my superpower.
Joy Blue (23:46):
I love this superpower and will do everything I can to
support you.
Marta Sandini (23:50):
Thank you very much
Joy Blue (23:51):
Um, if my followers wanna follow along with you,
where do they find you?
Marta Sandini (23:56):
on Instagram is, my name is Marta Sandini and m a
r t a s a n d i n I, I'm there,or I'm in London, at the Naughty
Piglet Brixton.
If you wanna just come here andjoin me.
But yeah, that's it.
And if you wanna just leave me amessage.
Go on.
(24:17):
I'm just gonna reply to you.
If you want a recipe, just ask
Joy Blue (24:21):
That's.
Marta Sandini (24:21):
or.
Question about anything, justask.
If I'm able to provide theanswer, I will.
Joy Blue (24:27):
You're such a wonderful human.
Marta Sandini (24:30):
I'm trying to be.
Like, I think we need this kindof behavior.
Joy Blue (24:34):
Yeah, we just need more real people.
Marta Sandini (24:37):
Yeah,
Joy Blue (24:37):
Thanks for being real and thanks for sharing your nerd
with us.
This has been absolutelyfantastic.
Marta Sandini (24:42):
we are fantastic.
You are fantastic as well.
come on.
we work together!
Joy Blue (24:46):
Yeah, girl.
So here we are.
That was so fun.
I am consistently in awe of theyeses I hear when I ask someone
to join me here.
Marta brought a huge smile to myface, lightness to my heart, and
a revitalized curiosity to playwith how vinegars and acids can
(25:08):
influence foods in the kitchen.
I can't wait to see Marta againin real life, and for all of you
to meet her too.
Don't forget to follow her onInstagram, either at
@martasandini or@naughtypiglets.
If you've got a flavor of nerdyou want me to celebrate, I
would love to hear all about it.
So go ahead and email me atherewearethepodcast@gmail.com
(25:32):
and tell me everything.
I love taking time to sit andmake space for nerd to be
celebrated.
If you really liked this podcastand want to financially support
what I'm doing, head on over topatreon.com, search for Here We
Are The Podcast and sign up forone of the many beautifully
written support tiers that I'mvery proud of.
So until next time, don't forgetthat curiosity wins and the
(25:53):
world needs more nerds.
Bye
Welcome to Here We Are.
The podcast where we celebratethe beauty of being a nerd by
learning about nerdy things fromfellow nerds.
I'm your host, Joy Blue.
After taking a little hiatus inorder to move, settle, and rest.
I am so excited to be back.
Moving forward, I will bereleasing episodes as I'm able
(00:31):
instead of weekly.
This gives me the flexibility toshift publishing to match my
freelance work style.
All of that to say today'sepisode is going to be a fan
favorite.
I just know it.
Brie and I met today's guest inAugust of 2022 in the heart of
London.
She's a creative, dynamic, andwhimsical human with a love for
(00:54):
crafting amazing food.
There's so much more I could sayabout her in this intro, but
instead, let me let her speakfor herself.
Without further ado.
Here's my friend, chef MartaSandini.
Marta Sandini (01:07):
I'm Marta.
I'm Italian, and I live inLondon.
I'm just a simple chef, which istrying to make people happy.
This is my main goal and I'm abig fermentation nerd.
And I didn't like vinegars untila few years ago.
Joy Blue (01:24):
What?
What do you mean you didn't likethem?
Marta Sandini (01:26):
I didn't like vinegar's fermentation in any of
my meals.
I discovered them when I movedto Slovenia to work for Hisa
Franco.
And that place introduced me toa different world of food
vinegars.
And there I start to realizethat that was my missing piece
of the puzzle in my tastebuds.
Joy Blue (01:47):
So the basic framework for cooking I have in my head,
um, is from Samine Nosrat, whereshe talks about, you know, salt,
fat, acid, and heat.
So what I just heard you say isyou're, you were missing acid.
Marta Sandini (02:01):
Yes,
Joy Blue (02:02):
Brie and I have been on an acid kick for quite a
while by incorporating citrusinto things, how does it lighten
it up?
But we haven't played withvinegars yet.
So can you tell me more aboutthat moment when your opinion
changed?
Because it sounds like you werevery firm.
(02:22):
No vinegars for.
Marta Sandini (02:24):
I was.
So what happened is I did a twoweek trial on this restaurant.
It's one of the 50 bestrestaurant in the world.
And I had to come up with a dishto convince the chef to work
there.
And I had a week to study hertaste, like, to understand what
she likes.
I don't like copy recipes.
(02:45):
I need to own taste.
So what happened (02:47):
just one day, I just found out we had Mochas,
you know, the mochas to makecoffee.
Joy Blue (02:53):
Yeah.
Marta Sandini (02:54):
So she asked me for a warm, savory walnut dish.
So I thought about coffee, and Idon't like coffee.
I'm a real fake Italian.
I don't drink wine.
I don't.
Joy Blue (03:06):
Fake Italian.
Marta Sandini (03:09):
But in my head, coffee was working.
And coffee's quite acid.
As a bitter acid.
Um, so in that coffee, I mix theCaffe coffee with uh, Portini
powder.
Joy Blue (03:23):
Oh,
Marta Sandini (03:24):
Make a coffee and then I added salt and I made
that cheese and walnut make foamto make kind of a cappuccino.
Joy Blue (03:32):
what?
Marta Sandini (03:33):
Yeah, I have no idea how that come up.
Like I have no idea where it washiding in my head.
This thing.
It came out and she put it atthe end and she put it on her
book
Joy Blue (03:43):
Wow.
Marta Sandini (03:44):
put my name on the book, so I have it here
downstairs is my name with myown recipe.
Joy Blue (03:50):
That's amazing.
Marta Sandini (03:52):
From that moment I realized I was missing the
acid flavor.
And then she was just adding alot of, cause there's a lot of
pickles and fermentation inSlovenia.
Cause East Europe, kind ofnorth, it's not just start
incorporate that and now I can'tlive without.
Joy Blue (04:08):
Yeah.
Marta Sandini (04:09):
you saw the, elderflower vinegar.
You saw all my baby jars.
Joy Blue (04:14):
Yep.
Marta Sandini (04:15):
So now I need to have them in every dish.
Dessert as well.
Joy Blue (04:19):
Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly.
So for a little background forour listeners, I met you last
August when we happened to stayat the hotel that happened to be
next to the restaurant where youwere.
We were like, I don't know, thislooks like fun.
We walked in, got seated, andended up having the literal best
(04:43):
food experience I've ever had inmy life.
I still think about you and talkabout you to people all the
time.
And so I remember walking in andbeing like, excuse me, what?
They're seating us next to thisopen kitchen.
And I'm looking around justseeing all of these jars and I'm
like, oh, dear Lord, I am soexcited about this.
(05:03):
And I remember just asking like,what are these?
I need somebody to tell me aboutthese.
And you came out and you had mycuriosity from the first moment.
So I've, I've played around withsome ferments.
I've done kombucha.
I've done a little bit of likehome pick I do sour dough.
And so to see the actualpossibilities, like you're not
(05:28):
just doing a basic ferment.
You're playing with all kinds ofthings.
Marta Sandini (05:35):
Oh yeah.
Joy Blue (05:36):
tell me, how did you get started on this fermentation
journey?
What did you start with andwhat's been your favorite?
Marta Sandini (05:43):
So I start with simple vinegars.
Um, I got myself a NomaFermentation book.
Joy Blue (05:50):
Mm-hmm.
Marta Sandini (05:51):
Start with that to understand the basic things.
And then I did during lockdown,I was bored.
I didn't know what to do.
So I discovered a bunch ofcourses with Harvard University
and like science in cuisine.
And I fermentation.
So I took those courses tounderstand even better, all the
chems and all the other weirdthings around that.
(06:13):
And I was working in Allegra,another restaurant in London,
and I started to do a blackberryvinegars.
And there was another one of thesous chefs who's now calling me
a Nouveau Nonna cause I don'thave a label for myself.
So he understood that I'm a NuNona basically.
Joy Blue (06:30):
Uh huh.
Marta Sandini (06:31):
We were just getting along with all this
weirdness and nerdiness aboutfermentation and, and then he
left.
So I kept going and I build uplike a shelf just for myself.
Like we peach vinegar,clementine vinegar, burned
clementine vinegar, citruskombucha, coffee kombucha, maple
kombucha, kombucha.
All different, so that you canuse everywhere you want.
Joy Blue (06:53):
Hmm.
Marta Sandini (06:54):
And then you have the blackberries pickle in a
blackberry vinegar.
So it is giving a second life toa second choice ingredient kind
of.
Joy Blue (07:06):
Hmm
Marta Sandini (07:07):
I feel that we need to take out the most out of
everything.
I thought that's it.
My favorite is the, elder flowerseason.
So coming soon.
I love the smell.
I love the, like take me backhome.
Back home.
Like uh, I used to go foragingevery five minutes or so.
Cause I live in the countrysidein Italy.
(07:27):
So it's just the smell of theelderflower.
I used to make these giant 25liter jars of just cordial.
Cause I going, picking andstealing all the flower of the
town.
Joy Blue (07:41):
That's amazing.
Marta Sandini (07:43):
just, and then here I realized what if I can do
vinegars with that?
What if I can do oil with that.
So I start to change and havedifferent bunch of everything.
Joy Blue (07:54):
That's amazing.
Break down for me how you make avinegar.
Marta Sandini (08:00):
So you can start with a mother vinegar.
Joy Blue (08:02):
Okay.
Marta Sandini (08:03):
It's the non filter that has all the sediment
uh, apple cider vinegar or ricewine vinegar, whatever.
And you can set, and then you'regonna just build the SCOBY
itself.
Joy Blue (08:15):
So it's a lot like kombucha.
Marta Sandini (08:17):
It's like kombucha, but with no sugar,
basically.
Joy Blue (08:20):
Fascinating.
So what is it feeding off of?
Marta Sandini (08:23):
I leave the fruit inside, so all the sugar is
coming from the fruit.
So the SCOBY is eating all thesugar from the fruit.
So every now and then, I'm justrefreshing everything
Joy Blue (08:34):
Wow.
Marta Sandini (08:35):
SCOBYs now are like steaks basically.
Joy Blue (08:37):
believe it.
Marta Sandini (08:38):
And I have a lot of SCOBY children running
around.
Joy Blue (08:42):
Running around by themselves.
Marta Sandini (08:44):
Yeah, they just woo and, and, or, or, the
easiest way to do it is takelike a plain vinegar, which I
love the rice wine
Joy Blue (08:56):
Uhhuh.
Marta Sandini (08:56):
cause not that punchy.
Um, for the peach vinegar andfor the elderflower vinegar, I
use the rice wine vinegar.
Joy Blue (09:07):
Wow.
Okay.
I'm gonna pause real quick andbreak down what you just said
for folks that don't doferments.
So a SCOBY is like thiscellulose disc that kind of
looks like floating skin, and itusually sits at the top of a
jar.
It's.
A symbiotic culture of bacteriaand yeast, S C O B Y.
(09:29):
That's why they call it a scoby.
And basically what the scoby'sdoing is eating sugar out of the
mix, and then it is pooping out,for lack of better words, acid.
So what we're actually makingthen is the waste product of the
Scoby.
So to keep the Scoby alive, itneeds natural sugars in order to
(09:50):
do its digestive, uh, job.
And then the byproduct of thatare these wonderful ferments
that you use liberally.
Marta Sandini (10:03):
Yeah.
I use them everywhere.
Joy Blue (10:05):
What is the most unexpected place you use it?
Marta Sandini (10:08):
Sorbet.
Joy Blue (10:09):
Really.
Marta Sandini (10:11):
Yeah.
I use, um, there's a fruit inItalian is ole I think in here
or in around the world, it'slike
Joy Blue (10:20):
Okay.
Marta Sandini (10:21):
Okay.
Um, so I got a second choice,that means that he is not the
great first produce, but youhave like a second hand fruit.
Um, I didn't wanna throw themaway and they suggested I should
buy them.
So I got a box and I did a popupwith that last year.
Um, so I got them all.
I skinned them off.
(10:42):
So with the skin, I did thevinegar.
And then the sorbet was reallygood, really sweet.
And then I decided to add thevinegar to the sorbet.
And then, because I'm Italianfrom Veneto region, where the
Grappa is
Joy Blue (10:57):
Uh
Marta Sandini (10:57):
like, and I don't like Grappa.
So I add a shot of grappa to thekind of affogatto
Joy Blue (11:04):
Mm-hmm.
Marta Sandini (11:06):
But yeah, the, the sorbet was weird, but it was
so refreshing because of theacid and the vinegar, and there
was no lemon at all.
It was just the vinegar.
So then in my head, like adessert now, now I'm putting
Maldon salt on a coconuts icecream because I kind of flavor
(11:26):
to play with your mind.
I need you to stop and thinkabout it
Joy Blue (11:31):
Mm-hmm.
Marta Sandini (11:32):
kinda.
It's like it's something thatyou know, but you actually
don't.
Joy Blue (11:37):
Yeah.
And that's something we, weexperienced when we ate with
you.
You gave me the recipe to thismagical sauce, and that was the
first time I had ever had like aliterally mind blowing flavor
experience.
At your restaurant, it was onpork and I remember just eating
the pork by itself and theneating the pork with the sauce
(11:58):
and my entire world flipped allat once.
Something you came out and toldus was, I want you to feel at
home.
I want you to feel like you'rehere with me.
And not only did you actuallycome out and join us for this
experience, it did feel likehome.
But like I knew it, but I neverknew it.
Marta Sandini (12:20):
yes.
This is what I would like forall the people coming to the
restaurant to experience.
Cause I'm first, I'm Italian andI'm coming from a big family.
So we love gather together overa table of food.
Joy Blue (12:32):
Yes.
Marta Sandini (12:33):
But also I'm living with my brother here in
London.
But I'm spending most of thetime in the, in a kitchen, in a
restaurant.
And my frontals, my chefs are myfamily.
And so all the people that arecoming in, I want you to enter a
place and see, oh, this is like,this is very welcoming.
This is like me feel happy.
(12:54):
If you're happy, I'm doublehappy.
This is, I think the word needsmore happiness.
Joy Blue (12:59):
Yeah.
something I've observedeverywhere I go around the world
is that the best things happenaround the table, around food.
Marta Sandini (13:07):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (13:08):
It is a gathering place.
It is a place where everybody'sequal.
There's something so valuableabout multiple people having a
shared experience.
And so then you now have theshared language that goes with
that experience, and that'sbonding.
So being able to go to where youwere at and experience your
humanity next to the amazingnessof the food that you served us
(13:32):
was ridiculous because what Iexperienced with you is there's
no power distance.
You're not some distant chef inthe back.
Marta Sandini (13:40):
Oh, no, no, no.
Joy Blue (13:41):
You're with the people.
Marta Sandini (13:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, like, I'm gonna just tellyou something that is very
weird.
Like I'm, I'm turning 32 thisyear and it is, um, 10 years
that I'm around.
Um, I start, when I was 21, Imoved to Australia and then
China, Italy, Slovenia, brieflyNew York.
And then London is my thirdtime.
(14:04):
I've been working in all theseplaces.
Food is just not one of thething I remember.
I remember all the people Iworked with, or I met,
Joy Blue (14:14):
Yes.
Marta Sandini (14:15):
those of them have been inspired to cook or to
create something because I metso many people from all over the
world, and it's just veryinspiring knowing them and
understand them.
And I don't really remember themenu I was cooking when I was in
Australia.
But I do remember Luca andSophia, the guys I used to work
with, or Jess.
(14:35):
So I just remember the people.
Like, I remember you, and now Imade friend with you.
And that is so powerful.
It is like influencing me tocook, play food.
Joy Blue (14:48):
I love that so much.
Like I was honestly shocked whenyou were like, oh yeah, here's
the recipe.
I was like, excuse me, what?
you're a normal human and you'resharing the beauty of your nerd.
Marta Sandini (15:02):
Yeah, I'm very normal.
I'm a people person.
I, I need people to survive thiswork.
Joy Blue (15:08):
Uh, yeah.
Marta Sandini (15:10):
man, I'm very happy the way I am and I don't.
Joy Blue (15:14):
it.
I, I love it so much.
When we met, pretty quick, wewere like, can we follow you
somewhere?
How can we support you?
And so that's how we ended upbeing, Instagram friends.
And then I just, I made thesauce, I sent you a picture, and
then I was like, Hey, what areyou working on right now?
And you sent me this whole listof things you're working on
right now.
(15:35):
Just for kicks and giggles, whatare you working on right now?
Like what has your curiosity,what are you playing with?
Marta Sandini (15:41):
So now bear in mind.
I don't drink alcohol.
Joy Blue (15:44):
Okay.
Marta Sandini (15:45):
I am a fake Italian, I don't drink.
Maybe I'm adopt, I dunno, but Idon't drink,
Joy Blue (15:50):
You're welcome here,
Marta Sandini (15:52):
I like turning things into alcohol.
So last year I started inVictoria where you came to eat,
hazelnut miso from scratch withmy, uh, rice Koji.
and this year I said, well, youknow what?
Because the restaurant is callednaughty piglets, make a naughty
nutella.
So, and I don't like chocolateas well.
(16:16):
It's another fact.
I don't like chocolate.
Joy Blue (16:18):
Fascinating.
Marta Sandini (16:19):
In Italy we have this chocolate liquor and here
is illegal to buy 96% alcohol tomake.
So I got, my mom sent me abottle and I infused the
chocolate that is, uh, 75%chocolate from our very nice
brand we're using at therestaurant.
infuse that in alcohol for aweek, and then I strain that.
(16:41):
Smell like chocolate.
And then I did something weird.
I did the syrup with the hazelmiso.
I wasn't expecting to be thatgood, just syrup.
So then I strained the syrup,put it together with the the
alcohol, and then I say, whynot?
I have the chocolate.
So I just melt the chocolate,and now I made these amazing
(17:03):
liquors that I have in bottles.
And in my head, this can bereally working with a condensed
milk ice cream afogatto, I canjust use this as a sauce for the
ice cream.
Joy Blue (17:14):
Wow.
Marta Sandini (17:15):
Or recently I did a scallop ceviche dish with a
leche de tigre.
And leche de tigre is a recipefrom Asia, I guess.
Maybe.
With a lot of sesame oil,citrus, coconut milk, lime,
lemongrass, all this.
And in my head was, about theelderflower season coming up.
(17:39):
I'm thinking to do a leche detigre with the elderflower oil
and the elderflower vinegar togo together with strawberry and
a scallop ceviche.
Joy Blue (17:48):
Wow.
Marta Sandini (17:49):
Oh, now it's the wild garlic season.
So I have oil.
I made the wild garlic oil jam.
Um, well, it's all this stuffthat I'm very weird and nerd
about.
every day that I can put my handon something fresh coming, if
it's foraged, even better,
Joy Blue (18:07):
Yeah.
Marta Sandini (18:08):
and it's just starting, like engine is going.
Joy Blue (18:12):
Okay.
So say you're foraging, youfind, a mushroom, an edible
mushroom.
What happens in your brain?
Because it seems like your brainis just like a encyclopedia of
all the things, and you're like,what if?
What if?
What if?
What if?
Marta Sandini (18:27):
Per se, I just need to find the right draw to
pull out.
Like I can see, oh, who havehere.
Um, it depend on mushroom causeI love foraging and I.
Much, a lot of mushroom.
So in my head I Is is like it.
It can even be a song.
With a song I can come up withsomething as well.
If you put on a song now, I'lltell you with this song what I,
(18:48):
what dish I can plate and it,it's weird.
I think sometimes I think I'mjust crazy.
Joy Blue (18:53):
No, I think you're brilliant.
This is what brilliance is madeof.
This is like the ultimate levelof creativity.
Marta Sandini (19:00):
well, thank you.
I'll take that.
Cause then so far I was justthinking I'm crazy.
Joy Blue (19:05):
Nah.
Marta Sandini (19:07):
But yeah, with the mushroom, like if you have a
porcini depend on which Porciniit is, how old it is.
Cause you can see and you canfeel how old it is.
It can be a crudo, a simplecrudo with lemon oil, salt and
pepper.
That's it.
Or it can be, uh, sauce, ausauce for a pasta for a risotto.
Or now we are back therepoaching the morans for a steak
(19:30):
tartare.
And, cause I don't travelanything
Joy Blue (19:38):
That's amazing.
Your brain feels like a magicalplace that I want to visit and
just sit and watch.
Marta Sandini (19:48):
You can come in when you want, it's like a
twenty-four seven here.
Joy Blue (19:53):
I'm the same way, but just with different things.
What I love.
Celebrating is that thing thatpeople love talking about that
makes their whole bodies lightup.
That makes, you know, it mightbe super niche, it might be
super nerdy, but it awakens you,which then has an impact on the
people around.
Marta Sandini (20:14):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (20:16):
I mean, I still can't get over that meal that we had,
and that was back in August.
Marta Sandini (20:21):
I was back in August.
That's true.
I just told you that seems likea year ago.
It was just August.
Joy Blue (20:25):
It also seems like just yesterday,
Marta Sandini (20:27):
Yeah, at the same time.
Joy Blue (20:28):
very confusing.
Marta Sandini (20:30):
But see, because of food now you are my friend.
Joy Blue (20:33):
I
Marta Sandini (20:33):
You are are my friend and Lisa as well cuz she
followed me as well onInstagram.
Joy Blue (20:38):
Yeah, we're all here
Marta Sandini (20:40):
See like the people, like the importance of
people.
Joy Blue (20:45):
Yeah.
We can't do things withoutpeople.
We're meant to be in acommunity.
Marta Sandini (20:49):
Yes,
Joy Blue (20:50):
Okay.
What is something that you wantpeople to try?
Marta Sandini (20:54):
I would like people use food as a bonding
moment, as a magical place tobe.
It's not more about the fooditself, like the taste, but
again, it's because of thepeople.
We need more, more kindness.
So I invite people to go forgingtogether in the forest just
because it's beautiful andsometimes instead of just
(21:16):
looking the pavement of down,like down look up.
Joy Blue (21:20):
Yeah,
Marta Sandini (21:21):
just losing a lot of magical moments up there.
Like that is the most beautifulpart, part of foraging.
Not just discovering and findingthe award, this the mushroom or
the leaf or the flower.
It's just the moment itself.
It's just mo, it's just littlemoments.
It's not just about food, it'sjust everything that is around.
(21:43):
I dunno, it's difficult toexplain,
Joy Blue (21:46):
No, but what I'm hearing you say is it's the
magic of being present,
Marta Sandini (21:50):
yes,
Joy Blue (21:51):
like be here now,
Marta Sandini (21:52):
yes,
Joy Blue (21:53):
like when you're experiencing something new, talk
about it.
Marta Sandini (21:57):
yes,
Joy Blue (21:58):
Like what I heard you say with create a bonding moment
with that food is like, Exactlywhat Brie and Lisa and I did at
your restaurant is we sat thereand we were like, excuse me,
what is going on here?
And we had a whole discussionabout it and it opened up
avenues for, for us to learnabout each other.
Marta Sandini (22:15):
Exactly.
It's not just food, it's themoment itself.
Joy Blue (22:20):
It's so magical,
Marta Sandini (22:22):
this is what I'm expecting people to do more in
the future like or I would likepeople to do.
I'm just gonna sit down and havea chat with you or hug you or
just talk to you, or this is,this is just me being me,
Joy Blue (22:36):
Yeah, I have a very similar feeling.
I absolutely love having peopleover and I love cooking and I
love providing.
I will work all day on food justfor fun, but my favorite moment
is sitting down and watchingpeople experience what I've
made.
Marta Sandini (22:52):
Yeah, it is my favorite moment as well when I'm
in the kitchen.
Like example now.
Now have a tiramisu as adessert.
That is a choux with a tiramisuFilling inside and the coconut
ice cream with maldon salt andit's like a wow moment.
Cause when you cut it open itsays, whoa, this cream.
So I like to see people eating.
(23:12):
Or I like to see people eatingthe pickle tomatoes that I'm
doing now, which is like, again,playing with your head.
So just seeing the little momentwhen a person is putting in his
mouth, out her mouth somethingand he is like, whoa, yes.
This is what I'm looking for.
That is my moment of, yes, welldone.
You make someone happy, soyou're making someone happy.
(23:34):
This is all I want.
Like taking care of people,leave them happy and then going
home happy.
Joy Blue (23:40):
Yeah, you're changing the world.
One meal at a time.
Marta Sandini (23:43):
yeah, that is my superpower.
Joy Blue (23:46):
I love this superpower and will do everything I can to
support you.
Marta Sandini (23:50):
Thank you very much
Joy Blue (23:51):
Um, if my followers wanna follow along with you,
where do they find you?
Marta Sandini (23:56):
on Instagram is, my name is Marta Sandini and m a
r t a s a n d i n I, I'm there,or I'm in London, at the Naughty
Piglet Brixton.
If you wanna just come here andjoin me.
But yeah, that's it.
And if you wanna just leave me amessage.
Go on.
(24:17):
I'm just gonna reply to you.
If you want a recipe, just ask
Joy Blue (24:21):
That's.
Marta Sandini (24:21):
or.
Question about anything, justask.
If I'm able to provide theanswer, I will.
Joy Blue (24:27):
You're such a wonderful human.
Marta Sandini (24:30):
I'm trying to be.
Like, I think we need this kindof behavior.
Joy Blue (24:34):
Yeah, we just need more real people.
Marta Sandini (24:37):
Yeah,
Joy Blue (24:37):
Thanks for being real and thanks for sharing your nerd
with us.
This has been absolutelyfantastic.
Marta Sandini (24:42):
we are fantastic.
You are fantastic as well.
come on.
we work together!
Joy Blue (24:46):
Yeah, girl.
So here we are.
That was so fun.
I am consistently in awe of theyeses I hear when I ask someone
to join me here.
Marta brought a huge smile to myface, lightness to my heart, and
a revitalized curiosity to playwith how vinegars and acids can
(25:08):
influence foods in the kitchen.
I can't wait to see Marta againin real life, and for all of you
to meet her too.
Don't forget to follow her onInstagram, either at
@martasandini or@naughtypiglets.
If you've got a flavor of nerdyou want me to celebrate, I
would love to hear all about it.
So go ahead and email me atherewearethepodcast@gmail.com
(25:32):
and tell me everything.
I love taking time to sit andmake space for nerd to be
celebrated.
If you really liked this podcastand want to financially support
what I'm doing, head on over topatreon.com, search for Here We
Are The Podcast and sign up forone of the many beautifully
written support tiers that I'mvery proud of.
So until next time, don't forgetthat curiosity wins and the
(25:53):
world needs more nerds.
Bye
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