Episode Transcript
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Joy Blue (00:10):
Welcome to here.
We are the podcast where wecelebrate the beauty of being a
nerd by learning about nerdythings from fellow nerds.
I'm your host, joy blue.
You are in for a real treattoday.
Buckle up settling.
And prepare to feel a bit.
I met today's guest on a gig andwe hit it off so well, I am
(00:35):
really, really excited tointroduce you to one of my
friends.
Uh, fellow empath and a solidall around human.
So without further ado here'sella featherstone to chat with
us about empathy
Ella Featherstone (00:49):
Hi, I'm Ella Featherstone.
I am a production coordinator inthe live events and corporate
world.
I like books and plants andmaking friends with new people.
Joy Blue (01:04):
I love this for you and me.
how did we meet?
Ella Featherstone (01:09):
on a children's robotics show.
Joy Blue (01:11):
did.
It was great.
Ella Featherstone (01:13):
in a place I never thought I would be.
That's for sure.
Which is scary cavernous back ofhouse with no windows
Joy Blue (01:21):
yeah, and just air flowing into our little space,
which is better than stagnantair.
Ella Featherstone (01:27):
in Dallas, Texas.
Joy Blue (01:29):
There we go.
The last stage that The Beatlesplayed on, Apparently.
One of the things I loved aboutyou is that we speak the same
languages.
We speak the languages of selfprogression.
We speak the languages oftherapy, we speak the language
of production and we speak thelanguage of kindness, which.
(01:50):
Sometimes is ridiculously hardto find.
So once I realized we were cutfrom the same cloth, I was like,
hello, you are my new workbestie.
And it got to the point whereevery day we were on this gig
for like two weeks and Briewould be like, so how's Ella?
(02:12):
That's what happens when you'remy work bestie.
My wifey asks about you.
Ella Featherstone (02:16):
We wore work wives on that show
Joy Blue (02:17):
It was wonderful.
And so that kind of segues usinto our topic for today.
What do you want a nerd outabout?
Ella Featherstone (02:26):
Well, firstly, this was like extremely
hard for me to choose a topicthat I felt I was worthy to
discuss.
I think so often our hobbies andinterests align with our work or
are identified through like ourfamily or our friends or aspects
(02:46):
of our self identity.
So I was like, I could talkabout books or I could talk
about something very physical,but I think that the thing that
I ended up landing on wasempathy.
I think the concept of selfempathy for others, especially
in the field that we work in andthe fields that I've worked in
(03:06):
previously, is deeply importantto the way in which I learned to
communicate and to buildfriendships around.
Joy Blue (03:17):
Okay.
This is so interesting.
You just said that so naturally,but there's so many different
things inside of just that onestatement.
Okay.
Let's start with the definition.
How would you define empathy?
And then how would you defineself empathy?
Ella Featherstone (03:33):
I think empathy, as cheesy as it is like
walking in someone else's shoes.
It's being able to extract yourown ego and your own self from a
situation and be able to placeyourself in the person's
position and who you wannarelate to or in who you walk
into a room and automaticallyfeel the energy pulled towards
(03:56):
and being able to identify howthat's making you feel and
understanding that's actuallycoming from them.
Joy Blue (04:03):
Unpack that a little more.
That's fascinating.
Ella Featherstone (04:05):
I think that so much of my empathy comes from
my awareness of self.
I think that because I caneasily identify how I'm feeling
in a situation, so, The otheremotions that come to me when I
meet a new person or when Ienter a space in which someone
is feeling uncomfortable or sador angry or upset.
(04:29):
It's so easy for me to identify,that's not a part of myself and
and I can relate to that emotionand feel that emotion and be
able to help that personovercome or just be a support
system to them, or shoulder tocry on or a hug, or bring my own
energy into that space andlighten the mood as best as I
(04:50):
can.
So,
Joy Blue (04:51):
I love the way you said that is that took me a long
time to learn.
The ability to walk in andnotice what is somebody else's
and notice what is mine.
Was there a time where yousuddenly realized you could do
that?
What's your journey been likewith being able to separate
that?
Ella Featherstone (05:08):
I think the more noticeable aspect of it is
that I realized that it wassomething that other people
couldn't necessarily always do.
Not something that I realizedone day that I could uniquely do
it.
It was something that I realizedthe people I didn't like around
myself couldn't do.
notice how I was feeling or howour friends were feeling and be
(05:30):
able to not necessarily shiftyourself to make them feel
better, but be aware andconscious of how they're feeling
and how your actions caninfluence the way that situation
you're in is going to go.
Because if you walk in a roomand someone's pissed off, you
can feed into that pissed offenergy, or you can choose to be
(05:52):
the opposite of it, or you canchoose to help that person
unpack it.
Joy Blue (05:57):
Yeah.
And again, that comes back to atopic that.
Ends up on this podcast a lot,which is agency.
The ability to make decisionsfor yourself, to separate your
experience from somebody else's,to take responsibility for what
you are feeling, as opposed toco codependency, which is being
(06:19):
responsible for the feelings ofsomeone else.
Like it took me so long to beable to be responsible for just
my feelings and not project thaton somebody.
Ella Featherstone (06:31):
And maybe it's like even less of the
concept of empathy and more theconcept.Of awareness.
Joy Blue (06:37):
Tell me more
Ella Featherstone (06:37):
for me, I think for me, those two terms go
hand in hand, and maybe that'sin part the way I was raised, or
in part the way that I choose toexperience the world or want to
represent myself in the world.
But I think that awareness andempathy go hand in hand because.
You need to be aware of thosearound you and aware of your own
(06:58):
feelings and your own biases andyour own thoughts, and also
others biases and thoughts andopinions that are around you,
and the empathy aspect is whatyou choose to do with that.
Joy Blue (07:11):
So we're not just talking then about the act of
empathy.
We are talking about the abilityto walk into a space and
understand what's happening?
What's my role in it?
What's your role in it?
And to be able to consciouslychoose what you want to do in
that space.
Ella Featherstone (07:29):
And without losing yourself.
Joy Blue (07:31):
Okay.
That's a huge principle rightthere in and of itself.
I lost myself for so many yearsbecause the way to survive was
to blend in and be what otherpeople wanted you to do.
What's that been like for you?
Ella Featherstone (07:43):
I think that for a very long time I tried to
be like a chameleon.
Very similar to the sharedsituations that we've discussed,
in which the environment that Iwas in, through my early years
was one that did not foster alot of the principles that I
like choose to believe now.
Joy Blue (08:03):
Yeah,
Ella Featherstone (08:04):
And I think that instead of choosing the
path of self-discovery and ofself growth, I chose to just
choose aspects and traits andcharacteristics of people around
me who I admired or who I wantedto be like.
And I took those on and I movedfrom like a huge school to a
(08:25):
very small school in mytransition from like middle
school to high school,
Joy Blue (08:29):
Yeah,
Ella Featherstone (08:30):
I moved from chicago, in which I was supposed
to have a graduating class of880 people to a small town of
Sedona, Arizona, where I had agraduating class of 75 people.
So it allowed me to, well, itforced me to no longer chameleon
because there wasn't enoughpeople to hide behind.
Joy Blue (08:52):
Right.
Wow, that's a really big deal.
Ella Featherstone (08:56):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (08:57):
What did you notice in yourself?
What were the pinch points?
Ella Featherstone (09:02):
I was not my own.
I was, I was not my own person.
I was the collective parts ofother people that I liked.
And I think a lot of us, that'sof course how I found some of
the aspects of myself that Ialso liked the most is because I
was able to see things in otherpeople that I wanted.
(09:23):
Maybe wanted is the wrong termthat I admired or that I desired
to emulate.
Joy Blue (09:28):
To try on.
Ella Featherstone (09:30):
Yeah like bits and pieces of people that I
was like, Ooh, like I like thathat.
I like that t-shirt.
I like those pair of pants.
But when it came to it and I wasessentially picked up and
plopped into this place, I couldnot identify who I was.
Joy Blue (09:47):
I resonate with that a lot.
Ella Featherstone (09:49):
And I think it's rare because I think a lot
of people don't experience thatuntil they're maybe outside of
college and they finally havestopped traveling on this path
that was paved by our parentsand paved by the environment and
the community that we grew upin.
And I moved from such a vastlydifferent community.
(10:13):
I moved from like a city to aspiritual hub that like the path
that was paved for me, entirelychanged.
And I think that I could havechosen to take two paths for
that.
And I like chose to take thepath of figuring out who I was
instead of continuing to hidebehind other people.
(10:37):
And then from that I was able topull myself and my emotions and
my feelings and recognize thatwas me.
And recognize when it wasn't me,when it was my parents or my
sister or my friends around meor my teachers, because we
forget that all of these peoplearound us are still learning and
(11:00):
growing.
I went to school for elementaryeducation.
I was a first grade teacher fora little bit.
It was such a weird Parallel tolook at like a first grade
teacher, look at all of myfriends around me who are all
teachers and see them as mypeers.
But then also remember like myfirst grade teacher and what I
looked up to and how I thoughtthey had so much of their life
(11:23):
together, when in actuality theywere also probably just 25, 26,
27 year olds who were justfiguring out the world just like
I was.
Joy Blue (11:35):
Yeah, what you're talking about is a difference in
worldview.
I grew up similar to you,different environment, a lot of
the same messages, and what Iheard was, you have to be this
way in order to succeed, inorder to be a part of this
community.
And it wasn't until I felt a lotof pain that I started to
(11:58):
realize, oh, I do have a choicehere.
The choices have been made forme to this point, and I've been
creative in figuring out how doI survive as a human.
But what I'm hearing you sayover and over again is you
noticed that you had theopportunity to make a choice for
yourself.
And you did it.
And I think that's somethingthat you and I have both done,
(12:20):
that if you look at our age peergroups, that's not necessarily
something that is normal.
So you and I get called oldsouls which basically means we
grew up faster than we neededto, and we have awareness of
what's going on around usbecause we've had to do the work
to learn how to separateourselves from that.
(12:42):
And what I see in you is theability to choose.
And you have intentionallychosen yourself over and over
again when the path that's beenlaid out in front of you could
lead to a good life.
And what I've seen you do isdecide to choose for you.
I've seen you choose yourself,and I've seen you try and I've
(13:02):
seen you.
Forge your own path, and that'sa really beautiful thing.
Ella Featherstone (13:09):
What a deep compliment to receive.
Joy Blue (13:12):
I'm here for you.
That's what happens when I finda soul that I resonate with.
Ella Featherstone (13:18):
It is always so jarring to find people in
whom you can have the deepest ofconversations with even, though
you met them less than twomonths ago.
I have rarely sat down andtalked to other people about the
concept of self-discovery orfinding your own identity in the
(13:41):
challenges that the world placesin front of you.
Joy Blue (13:44):
Right.
Ella Featherstone (13:45):
So it's, it's also refreshing to be seen.
Joy Blue (13:50):
Yeah.
It's terrifyingly fantastic.
Ella Featherstone (13:53):
Yeah, I don't know.
I dunno if this falls underempathy anymore.
Maybe we have to like braise itas something else.
Joy Blue (14:01):
I think it can be a multitude of things.
We might have a starting pointof empathy, but the beautiful
thing about how this podcasthappens is we just follow our
curiosity and see where it takesus.
Ella Featherstone (14:12):
Yeah,
Joy Blue (14:13):
To sum up some stuff we've been talking about so far.
So we started with the point ofempathy and then.
I heard you talk about theability to be able to separate
your feelings from other people,and then we started talking
about self-discovery, and thenwe've talked about how there's
parts of each other that we candefinitely resonate with on a
(14:35):
deep level and say, I do seeyou, what you've been through is
a hundred percent valid.
And so reflecting back on someof your journey to getting to
this point, And this is like a,just take whatever you think
humble is and throw it away.
What are you most proud of inyourself?
Because this is hard stuff, solike I know it's been painful to
(14:59):
get to where you are.
I imagine there's been a lot ofwrestling in yourself and a lot
of trying to figure out whatactually is me.
So what have been some of yourreally proud points along the
way?
Ella Featherstone (15:11):
Well, I really only started doing this
because I was having really badpanic attacks.
I think that I didn't know howto identify them for a really
long time.
I just thought it was meprocessing through emotions.
And ever since I was a littlekid, I always had the like,
cries, like where I could nevercatch my breath.
(15:33):
And so I think that it justbecame like a normal part of my
life to have panic attacks wasjust, it was something that I
didn't even acknowledge, like inmyself or with my parents.
It was like uh, the quietsuffering in the corner
Joy Blue (15:49):
Yeah.
Ella Featherstone (15:50):
was a lot of what I viewed my panic text as.
I got to college.
And I went and joined the honorsprogram.
I was in the honors college atmy university.
I joined a ton of clubs.
I basically became an exactreplica of what I was in high
(16:10):
school, but at the collegelevel.
And it was too much.
I went to a very small highschool in which I was already
academically advanced because Icame from a very privileged
school system up until highschool, and then I went to high
school in a very underprivilegedarea, just Arizona being so low
in education.
(16:31):
So I thought I had it allfigured out.
And I got a really bad panicattack where I like had to go
sit outside and put my head inbetween my knees and take some
really deep breaths.
And I finally realized that Ineeded to talk to my parents
about it and probably get somehelp because
Joy Blue (16:51):
Yeah.
Ella Featherstone (16:52):
It was dilapidating me to the point
where I was not getting goodgrades, I was not being active
in clubs and I was just tryingto hide it.
So
Joy Blue (17:02):
Yeah,
Ella Featherstone (17:02):
I started going to therapy.
I was the first member of myfamily to go to therapy.
Joy Blue (17:10):
that's a big deal.
Ella Featherstone (17:11):
both of my parents have done a ton of work
throughout their life.
I deeply applaud them for beingso influential and so open to
the concept of receiving help.
Both my parents have done lifecoaching for a really long time,
but what I was seeking was liketherapy over life coaching which
I think.
I viewed as a negative term,like nobody in my family ever
(17:34):
curated therapy as a negativeterm, but I viewed it as being
problematic.
Joy Blue (17:39):
Yeah, that makes total sense.
Ella Featherstone (17:41):
So I started going to therapy, and I think
that's maybe one of the thingsI'm most proud of.
Because I think I could havecoped with it in a lot of other
ways.
I could have turned I, I did fora while turn to.
Other methods.
I smoked a lot of weed incollege to try to cope with the
feeling anxiety.
And so I think like finallyactually turning to someone and
(18:04):
seeking help and being willingactually do the work behind it
because it's one thing to go tosomeone and.
Just talk about your life, whichI think is super important.
That's the foundation oftherapy.
I just got a new therapist and Ihad to do that for several
months with them before I couldstart getting back into the
work.
But I think when I made thedecision after I'd been given
(18:27):
the tools to overcome my panicattacks and how to live with
them and cope with them and knowwhat my triggers were, I decided
that I wanted to continue todelve into the aspects of myself
that fostered the panic attacks,like fed into them.
Joy Blue (18:44):
Mm.
Ella Featherstone (18:46):
the bits of of my anxiety that so deeply,
how do I wanna phrase it?
I wanted to do the work inidentifying the aspects of
myself that gave my higher selfpermission to have panic
attacks.
Joy Blue (18:59):
Yeah, sure.
Ella Featherstone (19:02):
And I think that, Was maybe like still the
hardest decision I ever had tomake in my adult life so far.
Granted, I am only 25, so I'msure there will be many other
decisions that will come inlife, but at the moment, the
choice to take the next step inmyself and then investing in
(19:23):
myself in that capacity.
Was really important to me.
Joy Blue (19:29):
Yeah, there's so many things I just heard in what you
said.
You noticed there was acrossroad in front of you.
You had the personal agency tosay, I'm going to choose to move
toward what will be initiallymore uncomfortable, but I know
will benefit me in the longterm.
You were humble and you askedfor help, and then you were met
(19:52):
with true empathy.
And so now we're back to thetopic of empathy.
And because you were able toexperience empathy, you learn
different ways of showing thatto yourself and showing that to
those around you.
It's in some ways, the therapyis like the domino effect.
Once you start playing with it,the more you realize, or the
(20:15):
more I have realized there arecertain things that are now deal
breakers in my life.
Hanging out with people that arenot empathetic, no, thank you.
I appreciate who you are, andthis intersection is not where
we will be right now.
I see you choosing yourself.
I see you choosing growth.
I see you making a difference inthe world around you because of
(20:39):
the decisions you've madetowards yourself.
kinda like what Brene Browntalks about of you cannot truly
help others.
I know.
Until you have allowed yourselfto be truly helped.
So the act of going to therapyis saying, I admit I need help.
This is beyond my control.
And then you are met with thatempathy, which then allows you
(21:02):
to truly show up in the roomwith other people and provide
empathy when appropriate.
It's amazing.
Ella Featherstone (21:09):
I think that everyone should go to therapy.
Like everybody I talk to, I'mlike, you know, have you ever
thought about going to therapy?
It has created so much freedomin myself.
And has given me a space with atruly unbiased person, which I
think a lot of people don'texperience in life.
(21:32):
Until you give yourself theopportunity to have those kind
of conversations.
Because I, regardless of whetheror not people intend to have
their biases come intoconversations, they always do.
And the only true unbiasedconversations I feel like I have
are with my therapist and withmy like business coach
Joy Blue (21:56):
That's amazing.
Ella Featherstone (21:57):
who only truly care about like me.
And how often do you havesomeone in your life like that?
Joy Blue (22:04):
They have vested interest in you succeeding.
Ella Featherstone (22:06):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (22:07):
It's a beautiful thing.
What do you wish people knewabout empathy or what do you
wish people would try?
Ella Featherstone (22:19):
I think a lot of people close themselves off
to empathy because it's viewedas a weakness.
I think showing emotions,especially from what I've
observed in like the corporaterealm, has not really been
accepted until recently,
Joy Blue (22:37):
Yep.
Ella Featherstone (22:37):
and I think people think empathy makes you
weak when I think that some ofthe strongest people that I've
met in my industry and in thesurrounding industries around me
are the most empathetic people.
Because how are you supposed tobe a strong leader or an
influential changemaker if youcannot relate to those around
(22:59):
you?
Joy Blue (23:00):
Mm
Ella Featherstone (23:00):
Or you cannot see the ways in which your
actions impact them, the ways inwhich they want to be seen and
heard and understood.
Joy Blue (23:11):
Yep.
Ella Featherstone (23:12):
And I wish more people would have open and
honest conversations about it.
And I wish more people wouldwalk into a space and say, Hey,
I'm getting some interestingvibes off of you.
Are you feeling okay?
Is there anything I can do tosupport you today instead of
just ignoring it or writing itoff to it being their own
(23:35):
problems because, you know, postpandemic, the concept of
community has become vastly moreimportant than it has been ever
before.
And I think community cannot besuccessful without empathy.
Joy Blue (23:54):
Yes to all of the above.
I raise my water bottle tomaking the harder choice to
choosing ourselves.
I love your empty glass.
Thank you for participating.
Ella Featherstone (24:07):
But all I have on me.
Joy Blue (24:09):
I appreciate it.
And here's to making our world abetter place, one day at a time.
Ella Featherstone (24:15):
Wow.
I love that,
Joy Blue (24:18):
I love you.
Thanks for doing this with me.
Ella Featherstone (24:20):
of course.
Joy Blue (24:23):
So here we are.
Ella is a prime example of howchoosing yourself and choosing
personal growth can have alasting and deep impact in
shaping who you are in theenvironments that you foster
around you.
I absolutely loved thisconversation.
It went by so fast.
And I hope you enjoyed it too.
(24:45):
Ella, you're a gem of a human,and I'm really grateful to know
you.
If you've got a flavor of nerdthat you want me to celebrate, I
would love to hear all about it.
So go ahead and email me atherewearethepodcast@gmail.com
and tell me everything.
I love taking time to sit andmake space for nerd to be
celebrated.
If you really liked this podcastand want to financially support
(25:07):
what I'm doing head on over toPatreon.com search for here we
are the podcast and sign up forone of the many beautifully
written support tiers that I'mvery proud of.
So until next time.
Don't forget that curiosity winsand the world needs more nerds.
Bye
Welcome to here.
We are the podcast where wecelebrate the beauty of being a
nerd by learning about nerdythings from fellow nerds.
I'm your host, joy blue.
You are in for a real treattoday.
Buckle up settling.
And prepare to feel a bit.
I met today's guest on a gig andwe hit it off so well, I am
(00:35):
really, really excited tointroduce you to one of my
friends.
Uh, fellow empath and a solidall around human.
So without further ado here'sella featherstone to chat with
us about empathy
Ella Featherstone (00:49):
Hi, I'm Ella Featherstone.
I am a production coordinator inthe live events and corporate
world.
I like books and plants andmaking friends with new people.
Joy Blue (01:04):
I love this for you and me.
how did we meet?
Ella Featherstone (01:09):
on a children's robotics show.
Joy Blue (01:11):
did.
It was great.
Ella Featherstone (01:13):
in a place I never thought I would be.
That's for sure.
Which is scary cavernous back ofhouse with no windows
Joy Blue (01:21):
yeah, and just air flowing into our little space,
which is better than stagnantair.
Ella Featherstone (01:27):
in Dallas, Texas.
Joy Blue (01:29):
There we go.
The last stage that The Beatlesplayed on, Apparently.
One of the things I loved aboutyou is that we speak the same
languages.
We speak the languages of selfprogression.
We speak the languages oftherapy, we speak the language
of production and we speak thelanguage of kindness, which.
(01:50):
Sometimes is ridiculously hardto find.
So once I realized we were cutfrom the same cloth, I was like,
hello, you are my new workbestie.
And it got to the point whereevery day we were on this gig
for like two weeks and Briewould be like, so how's Ella?
(02:12):
That's what happens when you'remy work bestie.
My wifey asks about you.
Ella Featherstone (02:16):
We wore work wives on that show
Joy Blue (02:17):
It was wonderful.
And so that kind of segues usinto our topic for today.
What do you want a nerd outabout?
Ella Featherstone (02:26):
Well, firstly, this was like extremely
hard for me to choose a topicthat I felt I was worthy to
discuss.
I think so often our hobbies andinterests align with our work or
are identified through like ourfamily or our friends or aspects
(02:46):
of our self identity.
So I was like, I could talkabout books or I could talk
about something very physical,but I think that the thing that
I ended up landing on wasempathy.
I think the concept of selfempathy for others, especially
in the field that we work in andthe fields that I've worked in
(03:06):
previously, is deeply importantto the way in which I learned to
communicate and to buildfriendships around.
Joy Blue (03:17):
Okay.
This is so interesting.
You just said that so naturally,but there's so many different
things inside of just that onestatement.
Okay.
Let's start with the definition.
How would you define empathy?
And then how would you defineself empathy?
Ella Featherstone (03:33):
I think empathy, as cheesy as it is like
walking in someone else's shoes.
It's being able to extract yourown ego and your own self from a
situation and be able to placeyourself in the person's
position and who you wannarelate to or in who you walk
into a room and automaticallyfeel the energy pulled towards
(03:56):
and being able to identify howthat's making you feel and
understanding that's actuallycoming from them.
Joy Blue (04:03):
Unpack that a little more.
That's fascinating.
Ella Featherstone (04:05):
I think that so much of my empathy comes from
my awareness of self.
I think that because I caneasily identify how I'm feeling
in a situation, so, The otheremotions that come to me when I
meet a new person or when Ienter a space in which someone
is feeling uncomfortable or sador angry or upset.
(04:29):
It's so easy for me to identify,that's not a part of myself and
and I can relate to that emotionand feel that emotion and be
able to help that personovercome or just be a support
system to them, or shoulder tocry on or a hug, or bring my own
energy into that space andlighten the mood as best as I
(04:50):
can.
So,
Joy Blue (04:51):
I love the way you said that is that took me a long
time to learn.
The ability to walk in andnotice what is somebody else's
and notice what is mine.
Was there a time where yousuddenly realized you could do
that?
What's your journey been likewith being able to separate
that?
Ella Featherstone (05:08):
I think the more noticeable aspect of it is
that I realized that it wassomething that other people
couldn't necessarily always do.
Not something that I realizedone day that I could uniquely do
it.
It was something that I realizedthe people I didn't like around
myself couldn't do.
notice how I was feeling or howour friends were feeling and be
(05:30):
able to not necessarily shiftyourself to make them feel
better, but be aware andconscious of how they're feeling
and how your actions caninfluence the way that situation
you're in is going to go.
Because if you walk in a roomand someone's pissed off, you
can feed into that pissed offenergy, or you can choose to be
(05:52):
the opposite of it, or you canchoose to help that person
unpack it.
Joy Blue (05:57):
Yeah.
And again, that comes back to atopic that.
Ends up on this podcast a lot,which is agency.
The ability to make decisionsfor yourself, to separate your
experience from somebody else's,to take responsibility for what
you are feeling, as opposed toco codependency, which is being
(06:19):
responsible for the feelings ofsomeone else.
Like it took me so long to beable to be responsible for just
my feelings and not project thaton somebody.
Ella Featherstone (06:31):
And maybe it's like even less of the
concept of empathy and more theconcept.Of awareness.
Joy Blue (06:37):
Tell me more
Ella Featherstone (06:37):
for me, I think for me, those two terms go
hand in hand, and maybe that'sin part the way I was raised, or
in part the way that I choose toexperience the world or want to
represent myself in the world.
But I think that awareness andempathy go hand in hand because.
You need to be aware of thosearound you and aware of your own
(06:58):
feelings and your own biases andyour own thoughts, and also
others biases and thoughts andopinions that are around you,
and the empathy aspect is whatyou choose to do with that.
Joy Blue (07:11):
So we're not just talking then about the act of
empathy.
We are talking about the abilityto walk into a space and
understand what's happening?
What's my role in it?
What's your role in it?
And to be able to consciouslychoose what you want to do in
that space.
Ella Featherstone (07:29):
And without losing yourself.
Joy Blue (07:31):
Okay.
That's a huge principle rightthere in and of itself.
I lost myself for so many yearsbecause the way to survive was
to blend in and be what otherpeople wanted you to do.
What's that been like for you?
Ella Featherstone (07:43):
I think that for a very long time I tried to
be like a chameleon.
Very similar to the sharedsituations that we've discussed,
in which the environment that Iwas in, through my early years
was one that did not foster alot of the principles that I
like choose to believe now.
Joy Blue (08:03):
Yeah,
Ella Featherstone (08:04):
And I think that instead of choosing the
path of self-discovery and ofself growth, I chose to just
choose aspects and traits andcharacteristics of people around
me who I admired or who I wantedto be like.
And I took those on and I movedfrom like a huge school to a
(08:25):
very small school in mytransition from like middle
school to high school,
Joy Blue (08:29):
Yeah,
Ella Featherstone (08:30):
I moved from chicago, in which I was supposed
to have a graduating class of880 people to a small town of
Sedona, Arizona, where I had agraduating class of 75 people.
So it allowed me to, well, itforced me to no longer chameleon
because there wasn't enoughpeople to hide behind.
Joy Blue (08:52):
Right.
Wow, that's a really big deal.
Ella Featherstone (08:56):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (08:57):
What did you notice in yourself?
What were the pinch points?
Ella Featherstone (09:02):
I was not my own.
I was, I was not my own person.
I was the collective parts ofother people that I liked.
And I think a lot of us, that'sof course how I found some of
the aspects of myself that Ialso liked the most is because I
was able to see things in otherpeople that I wanted.
(09:23):
Maybe wanted is the wrong termthat I admired or that I desired
to emulate.
Joy Blue (09:28):
To try on.
Ella Featherstone (09:30):
Yeah like bits and pieces of people that I
was like, Ooh, like I like thathat.
I like that t-shirt.
I like those pair of pants.
But when it came to it and I wasessentially picked up and
plopped into this place, I couldnot identify who I was.
Joy Blue (09:47):
I resonate with that a lot.
Ella Featherstone (09:49):
And I think it's rare because I think a lot
of people don't experience thatuntil they're maybe outside of
college and they finally havestopped traveling on this path
that was paved by our parentsand paved by the environment and
the community that we grew upin.
And I moved from such a vastlydifferent community.
(10:13):
I moved from like a city to aspiritual hub that like the path
that was paved for me, entirelychanged.
And I think that I could havechosen to take two paths for
that.
And I like chose to take thepath of figuring out who I was
instead of continuing to hidebehind other people.
(10:37):
And then from that I was able topull myself and my emotions and
my feelings and recognize thatwas me.
And recognize when it wasn't me,when it was my parents or my
sister or my friends around meor my teachers, because we
forget that all of these peoplearound us are still learning and
(11:00):
growing.
I went to school for elementaryeducation.
I was a first grade teacher fora little bit.
It was such a weird Parallel tolook at like a first grade
teacher, look at all of myfriends around me who are all
teachers and see them as mypeers.
But then also remember like myfirst grade teacher and what I
looked up to and how I thoughtthey had so much of their life
(11:23):
together, when in actuality theywere also probably just 25, 26,
27 year olds who were justfiguring out the world just like
I was.
Joy Blue (11:35):
Yeah, what you're talking about is a difference in
worldview.
I grew up similar to you,different environment, a lot of
the same messages, and what Iheard was, you have to be this
way in order to succeed, inorder to be a part of this
community.
And it wasn't until I felt a lotof pain that I started to
(11:58):
realize, oh, I do have a choicehere.
The choices have been made forme to this point, and I've been
creative in figuring out how doI survive as a human.
But what I'm hearing you sayover and over again is you
noticed that you had theopportunity to make a choice for
yourself.
And you did it.
And I think that's somethingthat you and I have both done,
(12:20):
that if you look at our age peergroups, that's not necessarily
something that is normal.
So you and I get called oldsouls which basically means we
grew up faster than we neededto, and we have awareness of
what's going on around usbecause we've had to do the work
to learn how to separateourselves from that.
(12:42):
And what I see in you is theability to choose.
And you have intentionallychosen yourself over and over
again when the path that's beenlaid out in front of you could
lead to a good life.
And what I've seen you do isdecide to choose for you.
I've seen you choose yourself,and I've seen you try and I've
(13:02):
seen you.
Forge your own path, and that'sa really beautiful thing.
Ella Featherstone (13:09):
What a deep compliment to receive.
Joy Blue (13:12):
I'm here for you.
That's what happens when I finda soul that I resonate with.
Ella Featherstone (13:18):
It is always so jarring to find people in
whom you can have the deepest ofconversations with even, though
you met them less than twomonths ago.
I have rarely sat down andtalked to other people about the
concept of self-discovery orfinding your own identity in the
(13:41):
challenges that the world placesin front of you.
Joy Blue (13:44):
Right.
Ella Featherstone (13:45):
So it's, it's also refreshing to be seen.
Joy Blue (13:50):
Yeah.
It's terrifyingly fantastic.
Ella Featherstone (13:53):
Yeah, I don't know.
I dunno if this falls underempathy anymore.
Maybe we have to like braise itas something else.
Joy Blue (14:01):
I think it can be a multitude of things.
We might have a starting pointof empathy, but the beautiful
thing about how this podcasthappens is we just follow our
curiosity and see where it takesus.
Ella Featherstone (14:12):
Yeah,
Joy Blue (14:13):
To sum up some stuff we've been talking about so far.
So we started with the point ofempathy and then.
I heard you talk about theability to be able to separate
your feelings from other people,and then we started talking
about self-discovery, and thenwe've talked about how there's
parts of each other that we candefinitely resonate with on a
(14:35):
deep level and say, I do seeyou, what you've been through is
a hundred percent valid.
And so reflecting back on someof your journey to getting to
this point, And this is like a,just take whatever you think
humble is and throw it away.
What are you most proud of inyourself?
Because this is hard stuff, solike I know it's been painful to
(14:59):
get to where you are.
I imagine there's been a lot ofwrestling in yourself and a lot
of trying to figure out whatactually is me.
So what have been some of yourreally proud points along the
way?
Ella Featherstone (15:11):
Well, I really only started doing this
because I was having really badpanic attacks.
I think that I didn't know howto identify them for a really
long time.
I just thought it was meprocessing through emotions.
And ever since I was a littlekid, I always had the like,
cries, like where I could nevercatch my breath.
(15:33):
And so I think that it justbecame like a normal part of my
life to have panic attacks wasjust, it was something that I
didn't even acknowledge, like inmyself or with my parents.
It was like uh, the quietsuffering in the corner
Joy Blue (15:49):
Yeah.
Ella Featherstone (15:50):
was a lot of what I viewed my panic text as.
I got to college.
And I went and joined the honorsprogram.
I was in the honors college atmy university.
I joined a ton of clubs.
I basically became an exactreplica of what I was in high
(16:10):
school, but at the collegelevel.
And it was too much.
I went to a very small highschool in which I was already
academically advanced because Icame from a very privileged
school system up until highschool, and then I went to high
school in a very underprivilegedarea, just Arizona being so low
in education.
(16:31):
So I thought I had it allfigured out.
And I got a really bad panicattack where I like had to go
sit outside and put my head inbetween my knees and take some
really deep breaths.
And I finally realized that Ineeded to talk to my parents
about it and probably get somehelp because
Joy Blue (16:51):
Yeah.
Ella Featherstone (16:52):
It was dilapidating me to the point
where I was not getting goodgrades, I was not being active
in clubs and I was just tryingto hide it.
So
Joy Blue (17:02):
Yeah,
Ella Featherstone (17:02):
I started going to therapy.
I was the first member of myfamily to go to therapy.
Joy Blue (17:10):
that's a big deal.
Ella Featherstone (17:11):
both of my parents have done a ton of work
throughout their life.
I deeply applaud them for beingso influential and so open to
the concept of receiving help.
Both my parents have done lifecoaching for a really long time,
but what I was seeking was liketherapy over life coaching which
I think.
I viewed as a negative term,like nobody in my family ever
(17:34):
curated therapy as a negativeterm, but I viewed it as being
problematic.
Joy Blue (17:39):
Yeah, that makes total sense.
Ella Featherstone (17:41):
So I started going to therapy, and I think
that's maybe one of the thingsI'm most proud of.
Because I think I could havecoped with it in a lot of other
ways.
I could have turned I, I did fora while turn to.
Other methods.
I smoked a lot of weed incollege to try to cope with the
feeling anxiety.
And so I think like finallyactually turning to someone and
(18:04):
seeking help and being willingactually do the work behind it
because it's one thing to go tosomeone and.
Just talk about your life, whichI think is super important.
That's the foundation oftherapy.
I just got a new therapist and Ihad to do that for several
months with them before I couldstart getting back into the
work.
But I think when I made thedecision after I'd been given
(18:27):
the tools to overcome my panicattacks and how to live with
them and cope with them and knowwhat my triggers were, I decided
that I wanted to continue todelve into the aspects of myself
that fostered the panic attacks,like fed into them.
Joy Blue (18:44):
Mm.
Ella Featherstone (18:46):
the bits of of my anxiety that so deeply,
how do I wanna phrase it?
I wanted to do the work inidentifying the aspects of
myself that gave my higher selfpermission to have panic
attacks.
Joy Blue (18:59):
Yeah, sure.
Ella Featherstone (19:02):
And I think that, Was maybe like still the
hardest decision I ever had tomake in my adult life so far.
Granted, I am only 25, so I'msure there will be many other
decisions that will come inlife, but at the moment, the
choice to take the next step inmyself and then investing in
(19:23):
myself in that capacity.
Was really important to me.
Joy Blue (19:29):
Yeah, there's so many things I just heard in what you
said.
You noticed there was acrossroad in front of you.
You had the personal agency tosay, I'm going to choose to move
toward what will be initiallymore uncomfortable, but I know
will benefit me in the longterm.
You were humble and you askedfor help, and then you were met
(19:52):
with true empathy.
And so now we're back to thetopic of empathy.
And because you were able toexperience empathy, you learn
different ways of showing thatto yourself and showing that to
those around you.
It's in some ways, the therapyis like the domino effect.
Once you start playing with it,the more you realize, or the
(20:15):
more I have realized there arecertain things that are now deal
breakers in my life.
Hanging out with people that arenot empathetic, no, thank you.
I appreciate who you are, andthis intersection is not where
we will be right now.
I see you choosing yourself.
I see you choosing growth.
I see you making a difference inthe world around you because of
(20:39):
the decisions you've madetowards yourself.
kinda like what Brene Browntalks about of you cannot truly
help others.
I know.
Until you have allowed yourselfto be truly helped.
So the act of going to therapyis saying, I admit I need help.
This is beyond my control.
And then you are met with thatempathy, which then allows you
(21:02):
to truly show up in the roomwith other people and provide
empathy when appropriate.
It's amazing.
Ella Featherstone (21:09):
I think that everyone should go to therapy.
Like everybody I talk to, I'mlike, you know, have you ever
thought about going to therapy?
It has created so much freedomin myself.
And has given me a space with atruly unbiased person, which I
think a lot of people don'texperience in life.
(21:32):
Until you give yourself theopportunity to have those kind
of conversations.
Because I, regardless of whetheror not people intend to have
their biases come intoconversations, they always do.
And the only true unbiasedconversations I feel like I have
are with my therapist and withmy like business coach
Joy Blue (21:56):
That's amazing.
Ella Featherstone (21:57):
who only truly care about like me.
And how often do you havesomeone in your life like that?
Joy Blue (22:04):
They have vested interest in you succeeding.
Ella Featherstone (22:06):
Yeah.
Joy Blue (22:07):
It's a beautiful thing.
What do you wish people knewabout empathy or what do you
wish people would try?
Ella Featherstone (22:19):
I think a lot of people close themselves off
to empathy because it's viewedas a weakness.
I think showing emotions,especially from what I've
observed in like the corporaterealm, has not really been
accepted until recently,
Joy Blue (22:37):
Yep.
Ella Featherstone (22:37):
and I think people think empathy makes you
weak when I think that some ofthe strongest people that I've
met in my industry and in thesurrounding industries around me
are the most empathetic people.
Because how are you supposed tobe a strong leader or an
influential changemaker if youcannot relate to those around
(22:59):
you?
Joy Blue (23:00):
Mm
Ella Featherstone (23:00):
Or you cannot see the ways in which your
actions impact them, the ways inwhich they want to be seen and
heard and understood.
Joy Blue (23:11):
Yep.
Ella Featherstone (23:12):
And I wish more people would have open and
honest conversations about it.
And I wish more people wouldwalk into a space and say, Hey,
I'm getting some interestingvibes off of you.
Are you feeling okay?
Is there anything I can do tosupport you today instead of
just ignoring it or writing itoff to it being their own
(23:35):
problems because, you know, postpandemic, the concept of
community has become vastly moreimportant than it has been ever
before.
And I think community cannot besuccessful without empathy.
Joy Blue (23:54):
Yes to all of the above.
I raise my water bottle tomaking the harder choice to
choosing ourselves.
I love your empty glass.
Thank you for participating.
Ella Featherstone (24:07):
But all I have on me.
Joy Blue (24:09):
I appreciate it.
And here's to making our world abetter place, one day at a time.
Ella Featherstone (24:15):
Wow.
I love that,
Joy Blue (24:18):
I love you.
Thanks for doing this with me.
Ella Featherstone (24:20):
of course.
Joy Blue (24:23):
So here we are.
Ella is a prime example of howchoosing yourself and choosing
personal growth can have alasting and deep impact in
shaping who you are in theenvironments that you foster
around you.
I absolutely loved thisconversation.
It went by so fast.
And I hope you enjoyed it too.
(24:45):
Ella, you're a gem of a human,and I'm really grateful to know
you.
If you've got a flavor of nerdthat you want me to celebrate, I
would love to hear all about it.
So go ahead and email me atherewearethepodcast@gmail.com
and tell me everything.
I love taking time to sit andmake space for nerd to be
celebrated.
If you really liked this podcastand want to financially support
(25:07):
what I'm doing head on over toPatreon.com search for here we
are the podcast and sign up forone of the many beautifully
written support tiers that I'mvery proud of.
So until next time.
Don't forget that curiosity winsand the world needs more nerds.
Bye
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