June 6, 2023 • 43 mins
"I don't care how folks read, I care that you read."
In this episode, Cyn and Isaac kick off summer with their book reviewer friend, Abbey Campbell (she/her), who shares some of the most exciting new publications to hit the world of Queer literature. Looking for a good novel to take on vacation, or something to read with your morning coffee? Then tune in, because Abbey and the team at Hey, Cis! have you covered!
Did one of the books we talk about in this episode catch your interest?
Featured Texts (with appropriate content warnings):
- The Girl from the Sea by Molly Knox Ostertag
The Girl from the Sea is a sapphic coming-of-age story about a young rural Nova Scotian girl named Morgan, who kisses a selkie one night after being saved from drowning in the sea.
Content warning(s): Outing, near drowning, divorce (mention)
Find the author on these socials:
Twitter: @MollyOstertag
Instagram: @molly_ostertag
Website: www.mollyostertag.com - This is How You Lose the Time War by Amal El-Mohtar & Max Gladstone
Two time-traveling agents from warring futures, working their way through the past, begin to exchange letters—and fall in love.
Content warning(s): Self-harm, descriptions of dead bodies and body parts, blood-drinking, murder & attempted murder, gun violence, poisoning, torture, imprisonment, animal death, war
Find the authors on these socials:
Twitter: @tithenai & @maxgladstone
Instagram: @amalelmohtar & @max.gladstone
Website: www.amalelmohtar.com & www.maxgladstone.com - Us by Sara Soler (out July 25th, 2023)
Originally written in Spanish, Us by Sara Soler tells the true love story of Sara and her girlfriend, Diana. Sara illustrates their shared past as a heteronormative couple and guides the reader through the ups and downs of coming out and accepting yourself. For Sara, it was finding out that she was bi. For Diana, it was finding out she was trans.
Content warning(s): Gender dysphoria, transphobia, homophobia, biphobia
Find the author on these socials:
Twitter: @Hammer_moon
Instagram: @sarasoler_art - A Day of Fallen Night by Samantha Shannon
Standalone prequel to The Priory of the Orange Tree. It’s set just shy of five centuries before Priory and covers the period known as the Great Sorrow.
Content warning(s): Cancer (implied), childbirth, child loss, child marriage, mass death, mind control, miscarriage (mention), pandemic, parental death, postnatal depression, pregnancy, reproductive coercion, violence, vomiting
Find the author on these socials:
Twitter: @say_shannon
Instagram: @say_shannon - Ander & Santi Were Here by Jonny Garza Villa
Aristotle and Dante meets The Hate U Give meets The Sun Is Also A Star. A stunning YA contemporary love story about a Mexican-America
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Isaac Cook:
Hey, Cis! (00:04):
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From coast to coast, we're bridging the gap between
the cisgender and transgender community, creating
meaningful dialog and space to learn and grow.
Cyn Sweeney: Join us as we connect with our community, Break down (00:12):
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tough conversations and get comfortable being better
humans. Are you an avid summer reader?
Is there a must read book out there for you or a
precious past read which you recommend to friends as
something that literally changed your life?
(00:32):
But wait, there is a caveat.
The book has to be an LGBTQ2+ book.
If you don't have any on your current list, whether
you're cisgender, trans, straight, gay or bi, we
hope to inspire you this hour.
I'm Cyn. I use she her pronouns and I'm originally
from treaty territory of Mississaugas of the Credit
(00:53):
First Nation and before then the traditional
territory of Haudenosaunee, Huron and Wendat, also
known as Brampton, Ontario.
Don't think I've ever shared that on the show
before. I moved to the Maritimes in 2012 with my
husband and three children.
One of them is transgender and I wholeheartedly
attest that it was an LGBTQ fiction novel read in
(01:16):
elementary school that altered his life and quite
possibly saved it.
Isaac Cook: I'm Isaac. I use they he pronouns and I'm a queer (01:20):
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trans social scientist.
I reside in Nizahon outside of the Truro area in
Mi'kma'ki. Do you know where make make you live and
are you interested in learning the name of where you
reside? Check out mi'kmaw place-names.
Okay. The link is in the show notes.
So although I don't consider myself to be an avid
(01:41):
reader over the summer months, I do certainly
appreciate some good quality queer romance novels as
well as the feeling and smell of a book in my hands.
In this episode we are flipping pages and seeing
where our bookmarks are going to land this coming
summer, and we have guests Abby Campbell to help
narrate our Queer Summer reading list and chat with
us about the importance of representation between
(02:03):
the pages. Abby uses She/Her pronouns and is a
passionate and enthusiastic queer youth worker in
Booktok. When she isn't reading, playing tabletop
role, playing games with her friends, or getting
lost in a video game, you'll most likely find her
spending time with her girlfriend and their service
dog, Oliver. Welcome to Hey, Cis!
Abby. Thanks for.
Abbey Campbell: Having me. Happy to be here. (02:21):
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Isaac Cook: So diving into we'll call this maybe chapter one. (02:22):
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We'd love to hear maybe where you're from, where you
call home. And also, most importantly for me, what
kind of dog is Oliver?
Abbey Campbell: Yes. So I am from just outside of the city of (02:34):
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Dubuque, also known as Halifax in Nova Scotia.
Born here and raised here.
And, you know, I plan to stay here for a very, very
long time. So Oliver, his full name, Oliver Twist,
his nickname Ollie.
His little baby name Dippis Mippis Owie Dowie.
(02:59):
Et cetera. Et cetera.
Cyn Sweeney: On Yeah. Love it. (03:00):
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Abbey Campbell: He is a black lab, so just a purebred black lab. (03:02):
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He's actually American, and he's been a part of my
girlfriend's life for the past three years now.
And I've been very lucky to also have him in my life
for the past two years and a bit.
And yeah, I love him so much.
Isaac Cook: It's always the perks of being with someone with a (03:25):
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dog. Me and my husband, we got our dogs when we were
together, but he had a family dog and I was like,
This.
Abbey Campbell: Is this is now. (03:32):
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Isaac Cook: My dog too. (03:32):
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Speaker4: Yeah. (03:34):
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Cyn Sweeney: Your house is full of dog hair, isn't it? (03:35):
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You got the big fluffy dogs there.
I have.
Isaac Cook: Three dogs. (03:39):
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Two of them are double coated and are very, very
fluffy.
Cyn Sweeney: Yeah, well, I have to chime in. (03:44):
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I have a whippet, and she's fabulous.
And it's like, is it Santa's little helper in The
Simpsons or the It's always the ugly dog, but
they're they're great runners and.
Yeah. And he came over with us from Ireland so born
in Waterford up in guess towards where your doggies
(04:05):
came from. Isaac A little bit.
Isaac Cook: Yeah. Yeah. All of our dogs are world travelers. (04:07):
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My goodness.
Abbey Campbell: Yeah, Yeah. Look at that. (04:10):
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Cyn Sweeney: I love that Abbey gave the the thumb little wave when (04:12):
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you said the smell of books and that.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
We wanted to have you in because you're an avid
graphic novel reader, queer graphic novels, and you
also do reviews.
Is that right? You want to tell us a little bit
about that?
Abbey Campbell: Yeah. Um, so I read a lot of different books. (04:30):
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I read a lot, primarily just queer books in general,
and definitely a lot of queer graphic novels.
And I started reviewing books back when I worked at
a local bookstore.
And sometimes publishers would send books and say,
(04:52):
Hey, we need some beta readers or Arc readers as
abbreviated advanced reader copy arc in order to get
some feedback to see how this book is going to do
market wise. If there needs to be more editing, if
there has to be revising that sort of stuff.
I was one of the lucky people to actually receive an
(05:13):
arc of Angie Thomas's The Hate U Give, and I was
also able to meet Angie Thomas when she came up here
with Becky Albertalli and Julie Murphy, who are two
other young adult authors.
And it was so cool to meet them and also to give
feedback to their book, even like to their face and
(05:36):
to hang out and talk about ketchup chips because
they don't know what they were.
So now I just continue to do that through kind of
more of a online path rather than a physical.
Like, I will write down something and send it to
you. I will type something down and send it to you
online. So I just continue to review lots of
(05:59):
different books. Primarily, those of my choosing are
usually always queer books.
Cyn Sweeney: Why? Graphic novels? (06:03):
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To just curious.
Abbey Campbell: I find that the like avenue of graphic novels can be (06:06):
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read by so many different people because it's
accessible in a way that sometimes regular fiction
novels aren't, because it also gives a visual for
folks who may have trouble with kind of the
(06:26):
imagining what's happening in the book scene sort of
process. It's one thing to read a description of
something on a page out of letters, but it's another
thing to kind of get out of your.
Your space that you're actually in and kind of delve
into this world that this author is bringing you
into. And graphic novels help mean me for sure, but
(06:48):
they also help a lot of other people visualize the
scene.
Isaac Cook: Yeah, and just jumping in there to kind of to to come (06:51):
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back to what you were saying about like some folks
leaning more towards graphic novels and then other
folks leaning more towards I don't want to use the
word like stereotypical like consumption of novels
where it's just text, but it kind of reminds me of
folks that are like really, really excited for like,
(07:13):
movie adaptations because it's not that they don't
want to do like the brain work, but sometimes, you
know, you just want to like, see and be able to
like, watch everything unfold or be able to see what
the author intended for characters to look like or
for what scenes to look like.
And I've met a couple of those people, and sometimes
those are also the same people that are like graphic
novels are for children or like, you know, I can't
(07:35):
enjoy graphic novels.
And I'm like, That's ridiculous.
Because you love movies and like, it's the same
thing, just a different format.
And a lot of times books can be a little bit more
accessible for people because there's a lot of
technology that has to go into watching a movie.
It's an interesting format that a lot of people,
especially adults, don't consider.
And I think now in, you know, 20, 23, I find there's
(07:57):
so many adult graphic novels coming out, which is
really, really exciting. Yeah, it's.
Abbey Campbell: Really nice to see that kind of like resurgence, I (08:01):
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suppose, or maybe just kind of a, I don't know,
increase we can say in like graphic novels, not
necessarily only targeted for children.
I found working at a bookstore, I'd get a lot of
parents saying like, I'm trying to get my kid to
start reading because they need it for school and I
(08:21):
think it's good for them.
But they have such a hard time with traditional
books. Do you have any recommendations?
That kind of stuff.
And usually when I first bring up graphic novels,
they're like, Oh no, I can't do comic books.
That's not reading.
And then instead of taking a very kind of offensive
approach, it's more of a, Oh, well, here's one that
(08:43):
really spoke to me and it's actually really deep.
And sometimes words escape us in a way that we can't
really explain. And sometimes it's best to just even
illustrate it or words don't explain what the
illustration is saying in one panel of a graphic
novel, for instance, on a page, and then the next
(09:04):
page will elaborate on maybe what we're physically
seeing on the page.
There's definitely a graphic novel out there for
everyone, I believe.
Cyn Sweeney: I love it. Well, you've got a few books that you're (09:12):
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going to take us through, and that's why we thought
we would break down this podcast into chapters
because it is generally segmented.
And so thought maybe why don't we kick it off with
The Girl from the Sea by Molly Knox Ostertag that
(09:34):
you want to tell us a little bit about that graphic
novel?
Abbey Campbell: Absolutely. And I will quickly show it here. (09:37):
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Cyn Sweeney: That's a nice cover, actually. (09:43):
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Abbey Campbell: It's gorgeous. (09:45):
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And it is fully like color illustrated as well.
Oh, I love, um.
Oh, it's one of my prized possessions on my shelf.
The Girl from the Sea by Molly Knox.
Ostertag is a coming of age story about a young,
rural Nova Scotia girl named Morgan who kisses a
selkie one night after being saved from drowning in
(10:07):
the sea. And to kind of, like, sum up, like, who
would I like this sort of book?
What's in it? What should I be expecting?
I've kind of written down a like if you like this
sort of stuff. So if you like folklore, a story on
learning to embrace who you are.
(10:28):
The sea cute little art with the actual graphic
novel format, adorable sea creatures and a little
bit of environmentalism.
I think that this book would be for you as well as
if you are from Nova Scotia.
Yeah, it's also just a fun read.
You see some references from a few rural places, and
(10:50):
it also mentions Djibouti, also known as Halifax,
inside the book as well.
Cyn Sweeney: What if you just always wanted to know what it's like (10:55):
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to kiss a selkie?
I mean, like, is it dangerous?
I mean, do they like what happens?
What's it like.
Speaker4: To. (11:04):
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Abbey Campbell: Read it to find out? (11:04):
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Yes, there was definitely a lot of care that went
into why the author chose this, setting this place,
and also the different folklore that she put into
it. A little back story, I suppose, on the author.
So Molly Knox Ostertag is the wife of Andy
(11:26):
Stevenson, who is also the creator and producer and
showrunner of the New Shira, which is one of my
favorite shows. Yeah.
So they are a married couple.
They're one. All together and they both have come to
Nova Scotia over, you know, countless summers
because they have family that lives here.
(11:47):
And I believe that they have moved away now, but
they still come back because they love coming up to
Nova Scotia, even though they're American.
So they have physically been in this space.
They have explored the different cultural
significance of, you know, a typical Nova Scotian
stuff, whether it's like the lobster traps that are
(12:09):
everywhere, sometimes littered around rural Nova
Scotia to, you know, some of the environmentalism
crises that we face here.
There was a lot of care and thought and passion that
went into making this graphic novel, which it makes
me so happy as not only a fan of these two partners
together, but also as a queer girl from Nova Scotia.
(12:33):
Like it's it's a place that I know deep in my heart.
And it's also a identity that I feel and know also
deep in my heart. And it's seeing this story.
If I had this when I was like their age, because
this is more of a kind of I like to call it a middle
grade. So I would say, you know, 10 to 14, maybe it
(12:55):
was the ideal, but anyone can read it.
Cyn Sweeney: Really think also trying to get into your head (12:58):
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sometime of your kids and everything.
I like to actually read like a and that sometimes so
you have me sold. I will put that on my summer
reading list.
Speaker4: Yeah. (13:08):
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Isaac Cook: And is a graphic novel like is it just a single novel (13:08):
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or is it part of a.
Speaker4: Series. (13:12):
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Abbey Campbell: In the genre in general? (13:13):
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It would depend.
So for The Girl from the Sea, it's just a one
standalone, one standalone.
So it's a it's a one and go, You're not going to
have to buy more series for it.
Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney: Oh that sounds awesome. (13:25):
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So I'll have to put that one on the list there.
Yeah.
Speaker4: Yeah. (13:29):
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Abbey Campbell: And I will like to mention hopefully that I have (13:30):
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provided some content warnings on the books that I'm
going to be mentioning and I believe that they're
going to be in the show notes.
So before you pick them up, if you want to take a
look at the content warnings, see if you're going to
be all good and safe reading these books, Go for it.
Isaac Cook: Yeah. And maybe what we'll do just for ease of access (13:48):
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and accessibility, maybe we'll put everything into
maybe like a Google doc so that folks can easily,
like control F if there's any sort of, you know,
items that might be triggering for some folks that
they can easily do that search.
But yeah, so jumping in maybe to chapter two, I feel
like I need some like I need a sound board.
(14:11):
Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney: Sound effects. (14:11):
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Isaac Cook: So going on to the next book and you know, to try and (14:12):
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link it afterwards, if possible, to the past.
Let's talk about why books like these are important.
And, you know, why are we talking about queer
novels? Why the emphasis on queer novels?
Um, and then also to, you know, link it to history
(14:33):
and what has happened in the past in terms of
eliminating novels and unfortunately what's
happening today.
Abbey Campbell: Yeah, it's really disheartening and discouraging to (14:39):
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even like just open up Twitter every morning.
There's some sort of news that.
Is rough to read.
However, I think it's still important to know what
is going on so that we can actively fight against it
and combat it.
Isaac Cook: Saying it's unfortunate is very much of a disservice (15:00):
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of what is actually going on in the world.
But that's the best word that I can think of on the
top of my head, keeping things a little PG.
But you said it even yourself just moments ago, and
I definitely feel the same way as a trans person.
Is that, holy smokes, I wish I had these stories
when I was younger, like when I was younger.
(15:22):
I don't even know. Like, I don't even think there is
anything really that I could, like, relate to.
And I mean, I was during these peak ages in like
2006, 2008, like that's not that long ago other than
like me reading stories.
And I'm like, the authors know what they're doing.
Those characters are definitely gay or like queer or
(15:45):
whatever, but like, it wasn't nothing was actually
like, written down.
It's it's incredible that suddenly, well, not so
suddenly because this is, you know, folks have been
pushing for more, better representation in media and
literature forever.
But now in recent years, because we are finally
getting proper representation, we are also getting a
(16:07):
lot of pushback in the form of legislature and bills
and laws and yay!
Speaker4: Oh God. (16:15):
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Cyn Sweeney: Yeah, I know. It's like one of those things that I (16:16):
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know people that like know or have done like a
workshop with me has heard me go on about the book.
George, which has now been renamed to Melissa's
story about a trans girl who was always Melissa, but
the author had entitled it George originally.
And just how like having a book like that gave
(16:36):
language to a child who was grappling with these
feelings did not make a child anything that they
weren't already but validated them.
And I just I had a copy of this one, which is
actually similar to George, probably the same age
range, but it's about a trans boy and it's called
the Other Boy by MJ Hennessy.
And after my kiddo transitioned, um, I had found
(17:01):
this book. I wanted to they had heard George, but I
wanted to find one that had a trans boy in it.
And so I got it and I read it myself.
And then I gave it to him.
And I loved it so much because it was, you know, you
just you learn learn so much from it.
And I know it's just one story in that.
But they they really loved it and was surprised that
there was a book out there like that.
Not a graphic novel, but.
Abbey Campbell: I always say little side tangent. (17:22):
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I always say, I don't care how folks read.
I care that you read, whether it's audio books,
whether it's comic books, graphic novels,
traditional reading, whether you can only read quick
little novellas or whether you're reading a
children's picture book to a Webster's dictionary.
(17:43):
I don't care how you read, you are reading.
And I think that is wonderful.
And there's many different avenues to read.
Like I even kind of count TV shows and movies and
that kind of media almost as reading, uh, just to
make it kind of more accessible because I sort of
(18:05):
think of reading more as storytelling or story
consuming, I suppose.
Cyn Sweeney: Hey, Cis! is all about connecting communities and (18:14):
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thanks to support from TD Bank Group, here is this
episode's connected community moment.
Isaac Cook: Now that you've heard some of our favorite queer (18:22):
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reads, we want to hear from you.
Is there a thrilling action novel with a lesbian
protagonist that stole your heart?
What about a collection of poetry and prose written
by transgender artists?
No matter what type of story it is, we want to know
what's top of mind when you think of queer
literature. Jump over to our Facebook and Instagram.
Follow us. Subscribe to the Hey, Cis!
podcast and comment on our post to let us know what
(18:43):
your top picks are.
At the end of June, we will randomly draw one winner
to receive a $25 gift card to one of our favorite
local queer bookstores.
Venus Envy. And yes, they do ship worldwide.
We can't wait to explore your faves.
This has been a Hey, Cis!
and TD Bank group Connected Communities moment
because inclusion matters.
So yeah, jumping back to chapter two, as we're
(19:03):
talking about the past present moving into the
future. One of the novels you have to share with us
today is a sci fi with forbidden love and time
travel. So maybe take us there with you.
Abbey Campbell: Absolutely. I also have a physical copy of this book. (19:18):
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So this is How You Lose the Time War by Amal
El-mohtar and Max Gladstone.
So it's written by two authors.
Cyn Sweeney: This is how you lose the Time war. (19:28):
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Okay, Tell us about this book.
Abbey Campbell: So this is basically about two time traveling agents (19:32):
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from warring futures working their way through the
past, and they begin to exchange letters, which is
how the book is actually formatted.
It's through writing like letters to one, back to
the other, to the other, to the other, and they fall
in love. So if you like a enemies to lovers,
(19:54):
forbidden Love Sapphic yearning time travel Thinking
about the innate pain and humiliation of desire.
Creative writing styles and probably also crying
because I did a lot of that.
You will really like this book.
I will say that it is definitely an adult book, not
in the themes of what we traditionally think as an
(20:18):
adult book, but more in the themes of war.
It's about, you know, time, time travel in the sense
of there's past wars, there's future wars, all that
fun stuff. So I just want to give content warnings
for this one because there's either mentioning not a
specific actual depicting of self-harm descriptions
(20:38):
of, you know, bodies, dead bodies, some blood
drinking murder, like some heavy stuff.
This is an.
Cyn Sweeney: Adult adult graphic. (20:45):
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Abbey Campbell: Yes. Yeah, It's and again, it's told through writing (20:48):
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letters back and forth to each other.
So it's not as if you're getting a play by play of
these things happening.
It's more of a mentioning.
And I like to keep most of this plot very hidden, or
at least I don't talk too much about the plot
(21:09):
because I find it's best to go in with very little
to expect out.
Speaker4: Of a mind. Yes. (21:14):
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Yes.
Abbey Campbell: An open. (21:17):
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Speaker4: Mind. (21:18):
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Isaac Cook: I just wanted to to chime in, too, as well. (21:18):
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Also mostly as you get both of your thoughts as
you're talking about kind of different writing
styles. And we chatted a bit about poetry and the
different types of literature that exist.
But I don't know if maybe I'm the only person,
probably not. But I love books that have like really
creative, like pages, like in terms of like
(21:40):
textures. I'm the person that was like obsessing
with like the smells earlier.
So that's probably not a, you know, a surprise that
I also like the textures, but like, that's why I
love physical books so much.
So like I find often with the, um, like letter
writing style, I can't remember the book off the top
of my head, but it was, it was written in the style
of also letters sending back and forth between
(22:02):
individuals and how they had it written.
Now, mind you, a lot of cases for this in terms of
accessibility, it's not the easiest to read, but
just visually it looked like someone actually
handwriting notes and then the leather, like the
pages were kind of like worn out and like had almost
like coffee stains and stuff on them.
So it really felt like someone just, you know,
(22:23):
binded together a bunch of letters.
So there's some really creative ways that people
have like, done that.
Cyn Sweeney: Can you show us just a quick peek inside this book (22:29):
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and we can maybe describe it because I'm curious as
to what it would look like as well.
Abbey Campbell: Absolutely. (22:37):
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Cyn Sweeney: Just making sure it's not a giveaway scene. (22:38):
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Yeah. Yeah.
A spoiler alert.
Speaker4: Yeah, this is good. (22:44):
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Cyn Sweeney: So. Oh, yeah. (22:45):
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So okay.
Speaker4: So yeah, so. (22:47):
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Isaac Cook: It's like standard pages and then it has your kind of (22:48):
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stereotypical like sign off and signature and then
like.
Speaker4: Ps Yes. (22:54):
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Abbey Campbell: And the sign offs, they change and they add like a (22:56):
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deeper meaning to the context of the story.
Speaker4: Oh, there's my heart burst. (23:05):
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Abbey Campbell: Yeah. And it's very, I don't know, I guess it's, it's (23:08):
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a very unique story in the sense.
Of like I mentioned in the if you like, this
thinking about like the innate pain and kind of
humiliation of desire sometimes.
And that's not it's not a good nor bad thing.
I wanted to include that to say like sometimes like
(23:29):
loving someone so much can, you know, feel
humiliating sometimes because you're so head over
heels, especially if it's like an enemies to lovers,
sort of forbidden love.
Like there's all these other contexts that make it
so high risk and deep.
I suppose you can say it's very good.
I really love it.
Cyn Sweeney: Oh, that sounds great. (23:50):
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And yeah, I think, you know, was we were talking
about before, just about like the past and the
present and the important of the storytelling and
the idea of like this being like you're going back
in time and, and it's a well as soon to be queer
couple because they haven't met in the beginning you
(24:12):
know just having these books out there is so
important as we were preparing to to record this, I
a news article had popped up just like yesterday or
the day before on the Washington Post about
objection to sexual LGBTQ content propels Spike in
book challenges. And so, you know, when we look back
to I think I had mentioned to Isaac, it was like May
(24:35):
6th, 1933.
So 90 years ago was like the that first like the big
book burning in Nazi Germany, which was targeted at
LGBT books along with Un-german books.
But you know, 90 years down the road and, you know,
the headlines are are scary, you know, they're kind
of like the more we change, the more we stay the
(24:57):
same. And so I do think that this, you know,
surgeons in LGBTQ, two plus fiction, nonfiction,
graphic novels, all of that is so great.
And, you know, no matter how hard I think people try
to ban it, it's not going to go away.
It'll just, you know, it'll make it it'll make them
(25:18):
more, more sought after, hopefully.
Yeah.
Speaker4: Yeah. (25:21):
undefined
Isaac Cook: And it's it's definitely an experience that's being (25:22):
undefined
felt, you know, in particular in the United States
right now. I know I think it was Florida.
God love Florida that there was a teacher that
showed a movie that it didn't directly have a queer
character, but like there was a character with like
a same sex attraction or that was mentioned maybe
(25:44):
briefly once. I can't remember the movie name.
It was relatively new.
And now she is like facing jail time for showing a
movie to like her class.
Like just as like, this is a rated G movie.
It's a Disney movie, I'm pretty sure.
Speaker4: Or I've heard that story. (25:59):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: Yeah. (26:01):
undefined
Speaker4: And it's just. (26:01):
undefined
Isaac Cook: Like, Come on. (26:02):
undefined
Speaker4: People. Yeah, We're. (26:03):
undefined
Isaac Cook: Really, you know, reaching at grass here. (26:05):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: Yeah. And it's happening right here in Canada, too, (26:08):
undefined
like Brandon, Manitoba, New Brunswick.
And then, you know, with drag queen story times, I
think there's one being organized in the Valley.
And some of the comments on Facebook are like, it's
a call to arms come out.
You know, it's almost like grab your pitchforks.
People don't let don't let you know these lovely
dressed, beautiful queens come and read to children
(26:30):
and make them happy.
And, you know, it's just it's really, you know, and
it's misinformation.
I think it's people that are being so fueled by this
sort of misinformation out there.
If you maybe picked up a book or two and actually,
you know, took a look at it first and had a read of
it, you could actually probably a lot of it would
resonate with you whether, you know, you're
cisgender or whether you're queer.
(26:51):
Just like before these kinds of books were out
there. I imagine as a you know, as a queer person,
you could pick up a book and read it and still it
could resonate with you, right?
You know, I think we find what we need from the
stories that we read.
Speaker4: When I was. (27:06):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: Younger, I read and like in school, I read about (27:06):
undefined
countless characters that are straight and cis and I
watch movies. It was the norm.
It didn't I wasn't being pressured into being
straight or cis.
No one's forcing me.
It didn't. Reading these sort of stories didn't make
me a certain way.
(27:26):
It's so weird when folks say like, Oh, if we let
children read about gay representation, it's going
to turn them gay.
Like what? That's not how this works.
Cyn Sweeney: No. And as I actually from our office had said the (27:37):
undefined
other week, we were talking about this and she said,
you know, like, look, it's shown from conversion
therapy that you can't make somebody not gay, so you
can't make somebody gay.
Like it's just yeah, you know, I said it yesterday.
I was doing a reading of the Pink Balloon, my
children's inclusive school book to elementary
school classes. And we were talking about, you know,
(27:58):
how, you know, the innate ability to know if you're
left handed or right handed.
How do you know? You just you just know and somebody
can force you and make you write right handed.
But it doesn't mean that you're right handed.
It doesn't mean it's comfortable. It means that you
can do it. You can, you know, you can do it and get
away with it so well.
Isaac Cook: And even on that same same train of thought too, (28:18):
undefined
there's all that like data coming out being like,
there's so many like trans or queer people or
whatever. And then there's also there was a someone
posted on Twitter. It was like, there's the same
parallels of that with like people now comfortably
identifying that they're like left handed and like
because it used to be exactly that, that you have to
write with your right hand, you have to do it.
(28:39):
That's the normal thing to do.
You know, a very, very minor comparison in the grand
scheme of things. But just to, you know, help
connect the dots to folks who may not have thought
of these things. Right. Like that's this is a normal
conversation that we're having in today's world that
people are able to be left handed.
People are the way that they are.
Let them live their life.
Speaker4: Exactly. Yeah. (28:58):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: And there's not like one thing that made them left (29:00):
undefined
handed, like, oh.
Speaker4: It's a. (29:03):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: Failure on my part. (29:03):
undefined
Speaker4: It's failed as a parent. (29:05):
undefined
Oh, no.
Cyn Sweeney: I should have eaten more ice cream when I was (29:08):
undefined
pregnant.
Speaker4: Yeah. (29:11):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: What's happening? Well, let's let's dive into this (29:13):
undefined
memoir now. So we've had a sci fi and now we've got
a memoir, graphic novel called Us by Sarah Soler.
And this one is not even out yet.
So. But you've had a sneak read of it.
Abbey Campbell: Yes. So the original language that it's in is (29:30):
undefined
Spanish. However, the English translation is going
to be coming out on July 25th this summer.
Cyn Sweeney: So an August read. (29:42):
undefined
Maybe tell us a little bit about about what you what
you liked about it and about it.
Yeah.
Abbey Campbell: So again, this is a graphic novel that is a memoir (29:49):
undefined
about Sarah Soler and Sarah Solas, Sola's wife,
Diana. It's about their love story.
And Sarah illustrates their shared past as a
heteronormative couple and guides the reader through
the ups and downs of coming out and accepting
yourself. So for Sarah, it was finding out that she
(30:10):
was bi and for Diana, it was finding out that she's
trans. And if you like, realistic depictions of
relationships like the ups and downs, sometimes the
hardships and the absolute funny little moments or
the joy.
If you love humor, if you love reading about
characters who embrace who they are and who their
(30:32):
loved ones are, if you love expressive art, if you
love communication between characters, if you love
nerdy things and also general shenanigans, I think
you're going to absolutely adore this book.
It is so full of heart and it is also very like it
knows about what time it's written in, as we were
(30:55):
just talking about, with everything happening across
the world, especially in America, for instance, it
also touches on like the world of graphic novel
publishing. And, you know, is this story actually
going to take off the ground with all of these new
restrictions that are happening?
Is it better to stay safe rather than be who you
(31:18):
are? It is a very fun book and a very important book
as well, because while it still has humor, it also
has it's truth hitting moments and it's a very good
balance. The illustrator who is also the author,
Sarah, um, she made the colors of all the book,
different shades of the trans flag.
(31:40):
So it's just.
Speaker4: Like that little like. (31:41):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: One of those little intricate ways of showing pride, (31:42):
undefined
showing, like this is the essence of the book and
like embracing her wife and who she is.
And oh, it's so good.
Isaac Cook: I love that. I love that it's written from her own (31:53):
undefined
experiences.
Cyn Sweeney: I think it'd be a whole other level actually, to kind (31:58):
undefined
of try and do a graphic novel to write it and then
illustrate it because you're illustrating, you're
like, Yeah, I, I think that sounds fabulous.
And when you read it.
Abby Then it wasn't the Spanish copy, was it?
Did you have an English copy or had.
Abbey Campbell: The English translation? (32:17):
undefined
So I sent, I read it.
I was able to send feedback of it and it was a lot
of positive feedback, honestly.
And I'm very excited for the English translation to
be released because I'm grabbing that so fast and
I'm going to throw it at all my friends.
(32:39):
Gently throw it.
Isaac Cook: Yeah, yeah. Birthdays, Christmas, any holidays this (32:40):
undefined
year? This is what you're getting from Abby.
A good.
Speaker4: Gift. (32:46):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: I just love that you put general shenanigans into (32:47):
undefined
just because that word is in there.
I'm like, okay, I've got to pick that one up too.
So you'll have to remind me then when you're going
to get your copy, I will come and get a copy with
you. Is it a lot of pictures with little words per
page, or is there like, what would be the balance of
like pictures? Two words per page?
Abbey Campbell: There's a really good balance between the art and (33:05):
undefined
also the lettering.
I suppose I can say, because it's not like a
generated. It's the author like wrote out every
word, but it is legible.
It's not hard to read.
It's like an accessible font, almost.
And there's also some times where the author will
(33:25):
add like a certain emphasis to a word in an artistic
way that, you know, it signifies the importance of
it. And then they'll go on to maybe draw like a very
dramatic, angry face of passion.
Cyn Sweeney: My head just went to Batman and Robin cartoons when (33:39):
undefined
they go pow bang.
Speaker4: Yeah. (33:43):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: Yeah. (33:44):
undefined
Speaker4: Expressive. And that's like. (33:45):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: The background of the traditional, like, comic and (33:47):
undefined
graphic novel industry coming out.
And like, that just shows the history and how you
can even make it inclusive or make it your own.
And as time evolves, we do too, and stories evolve.
I love it.
Cyn Sweeney: So let's let's go into the final chapter of your your (34:04):
undefined
next Wish List book.
You've done a high fantasy Day of Fallen Knight by
Samantha Shannon.
Let's hear about this one and why it's on your wish
list.
Speaker4: Absolutely. (34:21):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: So a day of Fallen Knight is actually very popular (34:22):
undefined
right now, especially in the sort of subcategory of
Sapphic queer literature, especially on something
called like book talk, which is just TikTok, where
folks talk about books.
And this is a brick of a book, let me tell you.
Speaker4: Holy smokes. (34:40):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: I was gonna say, like, how many pages is that? (34:41):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: Nearly 900 pages. (34:43):
undefined
Speaker4: Woo hoo! (34:45):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: Wow. (34:46):
undefined
Speaker4: Okay, so. (34:47):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: This book is the standalone prequel to Samantha (34:48):
undefined
Shannon's first book in this sort of world or
series, which is a priory of the orange tree, which
is also a brick.
Isaac Cook: Easy way to fill up a shelf, then? (35:03):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: Oh, yes. Both of these side by side are. (35:05):
undefined
Speaker4: Just they're. (35:07):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: Stunning. Yeah, really nice. (35:08):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: So again, it's the standalone prequel to the Priory (35:11):
undefined
of the Orange Tree, and it's set just shy of five
centuries before the prior of the orange tree and
covers the period known as the Great Sorrow.
So if you like again Sapphic love I read a lot of
Sapphic love intricate and immersive worldbuilding
and I mean that in every essence the description and
(35:35):
the the writing style it is so immaculate and it
just breathes life whenever you read it.
It's so good.
If you like queendoms, if you like diverse, strong
and emotionally complex women with swords.
I think you like this book.
And if you also like political theater and dragons
(35:59):
because dragons make everything better.
Cyn Sweeney: Yes, it's true. (36:02):
undefined
It is true for listeners that maybe like when you're
describing Sapphic, do you want to just dive a
little bit deeper if for somebody, you know, that
maybe hasn't is not familiar with that description?
Abbey Campbell: I like to describe Sapphic as it's another way to (36:15):
undefined
sort of say like women love women or women who love
non-binary folks.
It's basically just a way to say that these women
are in relationships that are primarily between two
women or more femme presenting or one woman, one
(36:37):
non-binary person, strictly just saying lesbian
relationship. It kind of brings into the context
that one of them could be bi and one of them could
be lesbian, or both of them could be bi or both of
them could be pan or one or so on and so forth.
It's a way to describe more of a relationship rather
than a specific identity.
Isaac Cook: It kind of reminds me of like the bisexual versus (36:59):
undefined
pansexual thing. Like people are like helping to
create new language to describe how people are
feeling, even though a lot of probably the
definitions are very similar.
Like, for instance, like a lot of people used to
make the statement that like saying you're bisexual
is transphobic, which isn't the case.
And identifying as lesbian doesn't make you
(37:20):
transphobic by any degree either.
I love your description that like, Sapphic is just
like a softer way of like, describing it, and it
helps create that more community essence, which is
also kind of how I feel about like being pansexual
is that there's like another community with that.
Abbey Campbell: It's definitely a something that is ever evolving as (37:33):
undefined
most language is.
As someone who identifies as a lesbian.
I also embrace the term Sapphic, just because in
some cases it's easier to explain complex like
gender identities that are still included in like my
(37:54):
romantic and sexual attractions to folks.
My girlfriend, for example, she uses He/They
pronouns isn't necessarily nonbinary, but also isn't
isn't necessarily a binary woman.
So I describe us as a Sapphic relationship.
I would also still describe us as a lesbian
relationship.
Speaker4: It could be. (38:13):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: Difficult because of again, you were saying, like a (38:14):
undefined
lot of people have these preconceived notions that
all lesbians are transphobic or all bi people are
just blah, blah, blah.
Yeah, which is not the case whatsoever.
It's it's just stigma.
Isaac Cook: It's very important for people to talk about, though, (38:29):
undefined
because I think like, as I said, I think a lot of
folks have these questions that they hear these
words or like, you know, if someone says this is a
Sapphic centered space, you know, if I don't
necessarily identify with that, like, is that still
a space that works?
I'm not talking about me directly, but.
Speaker4: Individuals. (38:48):
undefined
Isaac Cook: Who identify as non-binary mean, which is myself. (38:49):
undefined
But for individuals who identify as non-binary, if
they're like it's a Sapphic centered space, like is
that a space for me?
Is that where I should feel comfortable and to each
their own, you know?
Cyn Sweeney: Yeah. I mean, it's good to have these conversations (39:03):
undefined
and you know, the first time I had met, I was at an
event and there was a couple there that was
together, um, a lesbian couple and how they would
self-describe. And when I was talking to them about
gender identity and what we do and like the
experiences and that they were like, it was a light
(39:23):
bulb moment too. They're like, Oh, we didn't really
know about, you know, the trans experience like in
that the gender identity and how, you know, but
we've never really asked about it.
So, you know, even within community, there's still
always opportunity to, to learn and grow.
Yeah.
Isaac Cook: And there's still, you know, like discrimination and (39:39):
undefined
such within the community or biases towards certain
identities or, you know, how people talk.
But the beauty of having not necessarily new
language, but different language is that people are
able to find what best represents themselves.
You know, if we're making more words within the
community, doesn't mean there's less community for
(39:59):
other people. It just means that there's sacred
spaces for people who need that.
That is.
Speaker4: Exactly. (40:03):
undefined
Isaac Cook: That'll be my quote of the day. (40:04):
undefined
Speaker4: Yeah. That's all you're getting. (40:06):
undefined
Yes.
Cyn Sweeney: Good stuff. (40:09):
undefined
Oh, well, I've really you know, I've enjoyed hearing
about these books.
And I think we're kind of we're probably getting
short on on time to dive into your complete wish
list. No, but we can.
Why don't we? We could run through the some of your
wish lists that might be, you know, might go on to
other people's lists for the summer as we're
(40:30):
approaching into warmer weather shortly.
Isaac Cook: Yeah. And we'll also make sure to include the full (40:34):
undefined
wish list in the Google doc or wherever this full
wish list will live because I know I have some some
additions to as well.
Abbey Campbell: I will just mention the one book that I'm looking (40:44):
undefined
forward to reading over the summer that is on like
the tippy tippy top.
I want to read it so soon.
It is a contemporary young adult novel called Ender
and Santi were here by Jonny Garza villa.
And to describe it, it's kind of a um, Aristotle and
(41:05):
Dante meets the Hate U Give meets The Sun is also
star. All of those are young adult books, by the
way. So this is like a stunning contemporary love
story about a Mexican-American non-binary teen who
falls in love with an undocumented Mexican bisexual
boy. So if you like supportive family members,
Latinx representation, urban art, there's lots of
(41:27):
fun graffiti art moments, apparently, and I'm just
excited for it.
Good food. There's lots of food description and
character driven stories.
So not necessarily plot, but more like focused on
the characters. You will love this book Again,
content warnings are going to be in the show notes
for this one.
Cyn Sweeney: Thank you. That sounds great. (41:45):
undefined
Urban art and good food.
I'm like, I'm there.
Yeah.
Speaker4: Already sold. Yeah. (41:50):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: Oh, well, thank you so much, Abby, for joining us (41:52):
undefined
today. It's been super exciting.
And for me that, you know, it's hard to get me into
a book, but everyone that you've said here, I'm
going to write down, I'm going to go out and search
them.
Speaker4: Yeah, no, absolutely. (42:06):
undefined
Isaac Cook: As I said, I don't necessarily identify as an avid (42:07):
undefined
reader, but some good queer novels.
Love it, love it.
Speaker4: More lists. (42:15):
undefined
Isaac Cook: Like this. Yeah. (42:15):
undefined
Speaker4: But yeah. Thank you so much for having me. (42:18):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: It was a blast. (42:19):
undefined
Isaac Cook: Yes. Thank you so much. (42:20):
undefined
It was lovely learning, you know, about not only
your personal experiences, but also, you know, your
journey as a reviewer or how would you identify
like.
Speaker4: Just like book. (42:33):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: Reviewer, I suppose it's like a little side gig that (42:34):
undefined
I don't I don't necessarily get paid.
I just get sent a book sometimes and then I review
it.
Isaac Cook: Yeah, nice. Well, you get paid in the enjoyment of (42:41):
undefined
reading, so there you go.
Heck yeah. But thank you so much, Abby, for for
joining us today. It was a real pleasure.
Cyn Sweeney: The last episode of the season is will be coming up (42:49):
undefined
next in a few weeks and then we'll be breaking for
the summer. So don't know, maybe if any of you do
pick up some of these books that Abby's recommended.
We would love to hear from you in September on what
you thought.
That's all the time we have today, folks.
Thank you for joining us for another episode of Hey,
Cis!.
Isaac Cook: The conversation doesn't have to stop here, though. (43:10):
undefined
If. You would like to get in touch with us to ask us
a question or share your story on a future episode,
you can email us at Connect at Simply Good Form dot
com or visit us on our website at Hey, Cis!
dot com.
undefined
From coast to coast, we're bridging the gap between
the cisgender and transgender community, creating
meaningful dialog and space to learn and grow.
Cyn Sweeney: Join us as we connect with our community, Break down (00:12):
undefined
tough conversations and get comfortable being better
humans. Are you an avid summer reader?
Is there a must read book out there for you or a
precious past read which you recommend to friends as
something that literally changed your life?
(00:32):
But wait, there is a caveat.
The book has to be an LGBTQ2+ book.
If you don't have any on your current list, whether
you're cisgender, trans, straight, gay or bi, we
hope to inspire you this hour.
I'm Cyn. I use she her pronouns and I'm originally
from treaty territory of Mississaugas of the Credit
(00:53):
First Nation and before then the traditional
territory of Haudenosaunee, Huron and Wendat, also
known as Brampton, Ontario.
Don't think I've ever shared that on the show
before. I moved to the Maritimes in 2012 with my
husband and three children.
One of them is transgender and I wholeheartedly
attest that it was an LGBTQ fiction novel read in
(01:16):
elementary school that altered his life and quite
possibly saved it.
Isaac Cook: I'm Isaac. I use they he pronouns and I'm a queer (01:20):
undefined
trans social scientist.
I reside in Nizahon outside of the Truro area in
Mi'kma'ki. Do you know where make make you live and
are you interested in learning the name of where you
reside? Check out mi'kmaw place-names.
Okay. The link is in the show notes.
So although I don't consider myself to be an avid
(01:41):
reader over the summer months, I do certainly
appreciate some good quality queer romance novels as
well as the feeling and smell of a book in my hands.
In this episode we are flipping pages and seeing
where our bookmarks are going to land this coming
summer, and we have guests Abby Campbell to help
narrate our Queer Summer reading list and chat with
us about the importance of representation between
(02:03):
the pages. Abby uses She/Her pronouns and is a
passionate and enthusiastic queer youth worker in
Booktok. When she isn't reading, playing tabletop
role, playing games with her friends, or getting
lost in a video game, you'll most likely find her
spending time with her girlfriend and their service
dog, Oliver. Welcome to Hey, Cis!
Abby. Thanks for.
Abbey Campbell: Having me. Happy to be here. (02:21):
undefined
Isaac Cook: So diving into we'll call this maybe chapter one. (02:22):
undefined
We'd love to hear maybe where you're from, where you
call home. And also, most importantly for me, what
kind of dog is Oliver?
Abbey Campbell: Yes. So I am from just outside of the city of (02:34):
undefined
Dubuque, also known as Halifax in Nova Scotia.
Born here and raised here.
And, you know, I plan to stay here for a very, very
long time. So Oliver, his full name, Oliver Twist,
his nickname Ollie.
His little baby name Dippis Mippis Owie Dowie.
(02:59):
Et cetera. Et cetera.
Cyn Sweeney: On Yeah. Love it. (03:00):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: He is a black lab, so just a purebred black lab. (03:02):
undefined
He's actually American, and he's been a part of my
girlfriend's life for the past three years now.
And I've been very lucky to also have him in my life
for the past two years and a bit.
And yeah, I love him so much.
Isaac Cook: It's always the perks of being with someone with a (03:25):
undefined
dog. Me and my husband, we got our dogs when we were
together, but he had a family dog and I was like,
This.
Abbey Campbell: Is this is now. (03:32):
undefined
Isaac Cook: My dog too. (03:32):
undefined
Speaker4: Yeah. (03:34):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: Your house is full of dog hair, isn't it? (03:35):
undefined
You got the big fluffy dogs there.
I have.
Isaac Cook: Three dogs. (03:39):
undefined
Two of them are double coated and are very, very
fluffy.
Cyn Sweeney: Yeah, well, I have to chime in. (03:44):
undefined
I have a whippet, and she's fabulous.
And it's like, is it Santa's little helper in The
Simpsons or the It's always the ugly dog, but
they're they're great runners and.
Yeah. And he came over with us from Ireland so born
in Waterford up in guess towards where your doggies
(04:05):
came from. Isaac A little bit.
Isaac Cook: Yeah. Yeah. All of our dogs are world travelers. (04:07):
undefined
My goodness.
Abbey Campbell: Yeah, Yeah. Look at that. (04:10):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: I love that Abbey gave the the thumb little wave when (04:12):
undefined
you said the smell of books and that.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
We wanted to have you in because you're an avid
graphic novel reader, queer graphic novels, and you
also do reviews.
Is that right? You want to tell us a little bit
about that?
Abbey Campbell: Yeah. Um, so I read a lot of different books. (04:30):
undefined
I read a lot, primarily just queer books in general,
and definitely a lot of queer graphic novels.
And I started reviewing books back when I worked at
a local bookstore.
And sometimes publishers would send books and say,
(04:52):
Hey, we need some beta readers or Arc readers as
abbreviated advanced reader copy arc in order to get
some feedback to see how this book is going to do
market wise. If there needs to be more editing, if
there has to be revising that sort of stuff.
I was one of the lucky people to actually receive an
(05:13):
arc of Angie Thomas's The Hate U Give, and I was
also able to meet Angie Thomas when she came up here
with Becky Albertalli and Julie Murphy, who are two
other young adult authors.
And it was so cool to meet them and also to give
feedback to their book, even like to their face and
(05:36):
to hang out and talk about ketchup chips because
they don't know what they were.
So now I just continue to do that through kind of
more of a online path rather than a physical.
Like, I will write down something and send it to
you. I will type something down and send it to you
online. So I just continue to review lots of
(05:59):
different books. Primarily, those of my choosing are
usually always queer books.
Cyn Sweeney: Why? Graphic novels? (06:03):
undefined
To just curious.
Abbey Campbell: I find that the like avenue of graphic novels can be (06:06):
undefined
read by so many different people because it's
accessible in a way that sometimes regular fiction
novels aren't, because it also gives a visual for
folks who may have trouble with kind of the
(06:26):
imagining what's happening in the book scene sort of
process. It's one thing to read a description of
something on a page out of letters, but it's another
thing to kind of get out of your.
Your space that you're actually in and kind of delve
into this world that this author is bringing you
into. And graphic novels help mean me for sure, but
(06:48):
they also help a lot of other people visualize the
scene.
Isaac Cook: Yeah, and just jumping in there to kind of to to come (06:51):
undefined
back to what you were saying about like some folks
leaning more towards graphic novels and then other
folks leaning more towards I don't want to use the
word like stereotypical like consumption of novels
where it's just text, but it kind of reminds me of
folks that are like really, really excited for like,
(07:13):
movie adaptations because it's not that they don't
want to do like the brain work, but sometimes, you
know, you just want to like, see and be able to
like, watch everything unfold or be able to see what
the author intended for characters to look like or
for what scenes to look like.
And I've met a couple of those people, and sometimes
those are also the same people that are like graphic
novels are for children or like, you know, I can't
(07:35):
enjoy graphic novels.
And I'm like, That's ridiculous.
Because you love movies and like, it's the same
thing, just a different format.
And a lot of times books can be a little bit more
accessible for people because there's a lot of
technology that has to go into watching a movie.
It's an interesting format that a lot of people,
especially adults, don't consider.
And I think now in, you know, 20, 23, I find there's
(07:57):
so many adult graphic novels coming out, which is
really, really exciting. Yeah, it's.
Abbey Campbell: Really nice to see that kind of like resurgence, I (08:01):
undefined
suppose, or maybe just kind of a, I don't know,
increase we can say in like graphic novels, not
necessarily only targeted for children.
I found working at a bookstore, I'd get a lot of
parents saying like, I'm trying to get my kid to
start reading because they need it for school and I
(08:21):
think it's good for them.
But they have such a hard time with traditional
books. Do you have any recommendations?
That kind of stuff.
And usually when I first bring up graphic novels,
they're like, Oh no, I can't do comic books.
That's not reading.
And then instead of taking a very kind of offensive
approach, it's more of a, Oh, well, here's one that
(08:43):
really spoke to me and it's actually really deep.
And sometimes words escape us in a way that we can't
really explain. And sometimes it's best to just even
illustrate it or words don't explain what the
illustration is saying in one panel of a graphic
novel, for instance, on a page, and then the next
(09:04):
page will elaborate on maybe what we're physically
seeing on the page.
There's definitely a graphic novel out there for
everyone, I believe.
Cyn Sweeney: I love it. Well, you've got a few books that you're (09:12):
undefined
going to take us through, and that's why we thought
we would break down this podcast into chapters
because it is generally segmented.
And so thought maybe why don't we kick it off with
The Girl from the Sea by Molly Knox Ostertag that
(09:34):
you want to tell us a little bit about that graphic
novel?
Abbey Campbell: Absolutely. And I will quickly show it here. (09:37):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: That's a nice cover, actually. (09:43):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: It's gorgeous. (09:45):
undefined
And it is fully like color illustrated as well.
Oh, I love, um.
Oh, it's one of my prized possessions on my shelf.
The Girl from the Sea by Molly Knox.
Ostertag is a coming of age story about a young,
rural Nova Scotia girl named Morgan who kisses a
selkie one night after being saved from drowning in
(10:07):
the sea. And to kind of, like, sum up, like, who
would I like this sort of book?
What's in it? What should I be expecting?
I've kind of written down a like if you like this
sort of stuff. So if you like folklore, a story on
learning to embrace who you are.
(10:28):
The sea cute little art with the actual graphic
novel format, adorable sea creatures and a little
bit of environmentalism.
I think that this book would be for you as well as
if you are from Nova Scotia.
Yeah, it's also just a fun read.
You see some references from a few rural places, and
(10:50):
it also mentions Djibouti, also known as Halifax,
inside the book as well.
Cyn Sweeney: What if you just always wanted to know what it's like (10:55):
undefined
to kiss a selkie?
I mean, like, is it dangerous?
I mean, do they like what happens?
What's it like.
Speaker4: To. (11:04):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: Read it to find out? (11:04):
undefined
Yes, there was definitely a lot of care that went
into why the author chose this, setting this place,
and also the different folklore that she put into
it. A little back story, I suppose, on the author.
So Molly Knox Ostertag is the wife of Andy
(11:26):
Stevenson, who is also the creator and producer and
showrunner of the New Shira, which is one of my
favorite shows. Yeah.
So they are a married couple.
They're one. All together and they both have come to
Nova Scotia over, you know, countless summers
because they have family that lives here.
(11:47):
And I believe that they have moved away now, but
they still come back because they love coming up to
Nova Scotia, even though they're American.
So they have physically been in this space.
They have explored the different cultural
significance of, you know, a typical Nova Scotian
stuff, whether it's like the lobster traps that are
(12:09):
everywhere, sometimes littered around rural Nova
Scotia to, you know, some of the environmentalism
crises that we face here.
There was a lot of care and thought and passion that
went into making this graphic novel, which it makes
me so happy as not only a fan of these two partners
together, but also as a queer girl from Nova Scotia.
(12:33):
Like it's it's a place that I know deep in my heart.
And it's also a identity that I feel and know also
deep in my heart. And it's seeing this story.
If I had this when I was like their age, because
this is more of a kind of I like to call it a middle
grade. So I would say, you know, 10 to 14, maybe it
(12:55):
was the ideal, but anyone can read it.
Cyn Sweeney: Really think also trying to get into your head (12:58):
undefined
sometime of your kids and everything.
I like to actually read like a and that sometimes so
you have me sold. I will put that on my summer
reading list.
Speaker4: Yeah. (13:08):
undefined
Isaac Cook: And is a graphic novel like is it just a single novel (13:08):
undefined
or is it part of a.
Speaker4: Series. (13:12):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: In the genre in general? (13:13):
undefined
It would depend.
So for The Girl from the Sea, it's just a one
standalone, one standalone.
So it's a it's a one and go, You're not going to
have to buy more series for it.
Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney: Oh that sounds awesome. (13:25):
undefined
So I'll have to put that one on the list there.
Yeah.
Speaker4: Yeah. (13:29):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: And I will like to mention hopefully that I have (13:30):
undefined
provided some content warnings on the books that I'm
going to be mentioning and I believe that they're
going to be in the show notes.
So before you pick them up, if you want to take a
look at the content warnings, see if you're going to
be all good and safe reading these books, Go for it.
Isaac Cook: Yeah. And maybe what we'll do just for ease of access (13:48):
undefined
and accessibility, maybe we'll put everything into
maybe like a Google doc so that folks can easily,
like control F if there's any sort of, you know,
items that might be triggering for some folks that
they can easily do that search.
But yeah, so jumping in maybe to chapter two, I feel
like I need some like I need a sound board.
(14:11):
Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney: Sound effects. (14:11):
undefined
Isaac Cook: So going on to the next book and you know, to try and (14:12):
undefined
link it afterwards, if possible, to the past.
Let's talk about why books like these are important.
And, you know, why are we talking about queer
novels? Why the emphasis on queer novels?
Um, and then also to, you know, link it to history
(14:33):
and what has happened in the past in terms of
eliminating novels and unfortunately what's
happening today.
Abbey Campbell: Yeah, it's really disheartening and discouraging to (14:39):
undefined
even like just open up Twitter every morning.
There's some sort of news that.
Is rough to read.
However, I think it's still important to know what
is going on so that we can actively fight against it
and combat it.
Isaac Cook: Saying it's unfortunate is very much of a disservice (15:00):
undefined
of what is actually going on in the world.
But that's the best word that I can think of on the
top of my head, keeping things a little PG.
But you said it even yourself just moments ago, and
I definitely feel the same way as a trans person.
Is that, holy smokes, I wish I had these stories
when I was younger, like when I was younger.
(15:22):
I don't even know. Like, I don't even think there is
anything really that I could, like, relate to.
And I mean, I was during these peak ages in like
2006, 2008, like that's not that long ago other than
like me reading stories.
And I'm like, the authors know what they're doing.
Those characters are definitely gay or like queer or
(15:45):
whatever, but like, it wasn't nothing was actually
like, written down.
It's it's incredible that suddenly, well, not so
suddenly because this is, you know, folks have been
pushing for more, better representation in media and
literature forever.
But now in recent years, because we are finally
getting proper representation, we are also getting a
(16:07):
lot of pushback in the form of legislature and bills
and laws and yay!
Speaker4: Oh God. (16:15):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: Yeah, I know. It's like one of those things that I (16:16):
undefined
know people that like know or have done like a
workshop with me has heard me go on about the book.
George, which has now been renamed to Melissa's
story about a trans girl who was always Melissa, but
the author had entitled it George originally.
And just how like having a book like that gave
(16:36):
language to a child who was grappling with these
feelings did not make a child anything that they
weren't already but validated them.
And I just I had a copy of this one, which is
actually similar to George, probably the same age
range, but it's about a trans boy and it's called
the Other Boy by MJ Hennessy.
And after my kiddo transitioned, um, I had found
(17:01):
this book. I wanted to they had heard George, but I
wanted to find one that had a trans boy in it.
And so I got it and I read it myself.
And then I gave it to him.
And I loved it so much because it was, you know, you
just you learn learn so much from it.
And I know it's just one story in that.
But they they really loved it and was surprised that
there was a book out there like that.
Not a graphic novel, but.
Abbey Campbell: I always say little side tangent. (17:22):
undefined
I always say, I don't care how folks read.
I care that you read, whether it's audio books,
whether it's comic books, graphic novels,
traditional reading, whether you can only read quick
little novellas or whether you're reading a
children's picture book to a Webster's dictionary.
(17:43):
I don't care how you read, you are reading.
And I think that is wonderful.
And there's many different avenues to read.
Like I even kind of count TV shows and movies and
that kind of media almost as reading, uh, just to
make it kind of more accessible because I sort of
(18:05):
think of reading more as storytelling or story
consuming, I suppose.
Cyn Sweeney: Hey, Cis! is all about connecting communities and (18:14):
undefined
thanks to support from TD Bank Group, here is this
episode's connected community moment.
Isaac Cook: Now that you've heard some of our favorite queer (18:22):
undefined
reads, we want to hear from you.
Is there a thrilling action novel with a lesbian
protagonist that stole your heart?
What about a collection of poetry and prose written
by transgender artists?
No matter what type of story it is, we want to know
what's top of mind when you think of queer
literature. Jump over to our Facebook and Instagram.
Follow us. Subscribe to the Hey, Cis!
podcast and comment on our post to let us know what
(18:43):
your top picks are.
At the end of June, we will randomly draw one winner
to receive a $25 gift card to one of our favorite
local queer bookstores.
Venus Envy. And yes, they do ship worldwide.
We can't wait to explore your faves.
This has been a Hey, Cis!
and TD Bank group Connected Communities moment
because inclusion matters.
So yeah, jumping back to chapter two, as we're
(19:03):
talking about the past present moving into the
future. One of the novels you have to share with us
today is a sci fi with forbidden love and time
travel. So maybe take us there with you.
Abbey Campbell: Absolutely. I also have a physical copy of this book. (19:18):
undefined
So this is How You Lose the Time War by Amal
El-mohtar and Max Gladstone.
So it's written by two authors.
Cyn Sweeney: This is how you lose the Time war. (19:28):
undefined
Okay, Tell us about this book.
Abbey Campbell: So this is basically about two time traveling agents (19:32):
undefined
from warring futures working their way through the
past, and they begin to exchange letters, which is
how the book is actually formatted.
It's through writing like letters to one, back to
the other, to the other, to the other, and they fall
in love. So if you like a enemies to lovers,
(19:54):
forbidden Love Sapphic yearning time travel Thinking
about the innate pain and humiliation of desire.
Creative writing styles and probably also crying
because I did a lot of that.
You will really like this book.
I will say that it is definitely an adult book, not
in the themes of what we traditionally think as an
(20:18):
adult book, but more in the themes of war.
It's about, you know, time, time travel in the sense
of there's past wars, there's future wars, all that
fun stuff. So I just want to give content warnings
for this one because there's either mentioning not a
specific actual depicting of self-harm descriptions
(20:38):
of, you know, bodies, dead bodies, some blood
drinking murder, like some heavy stuff.
This is an.
Cyn Sweeney: Adult adult graphic. (20:45):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: Yes. Yeah, It's and again, it's told through writing (20:48):
undefined
letters back and forth to each other.
So it's not as if you're getting a play by play of
these things happening.
It's more of a mentioning.
And I like to keep most of this plot very hidden, or
at least I don't talk too much about the plot
(21:09):
because I find it's best to go in with very little
to expect out.
Speaker4: Of a mind. Yes. (21:14):
undefined
Yes.
Abbey Campbell: An open. (21:17):
undefined
Speaker4: Mind. (21:18):
undefined
Isaac Cook: I just wanted to to chime in, too, as well. (21:18):
undefined
Also mostly as you get both of your thoughts as
you're talking about kind of different writing
styles. And we chatted a bit about poetry and the
different types of literature that exist.
But I don't know if maybe I'm the only person,
probably not. But I love books that have like really
creative, like pages, like in terms of like
(21:40):
textures. I'm the person that was like obsessing
with like the smells earlier.
So that's probably not a, you know, a surprise that
I also like the textures, but like, that's why I
love physical books so much.
So like I find often with the, um, like letter
writing style, I can't remember the book off the top
of my head, but it was, it was written in the style
of also letters sending back and forth between
(22:02):
individuals and how they had it written.
Now, mind you, a lot of cases for this in terms of
accessibility, it's not the easiest to read, but
just visually it looked like someone actually
handwriting notes and then the leather, like the
pages were kind of like worn out and like had almost
like coffee stains and stuff on them.
So it really felt like someone just, you know,
(22:23):
binded together a bunch of letters.
So there's some really creative ways that people
have like, done that.
Cyn Sweeney: Can you show us just a quick peek inside this book (22:29):
undefined
and we can maybe describe it because I'm curious as
to what it would look like as well.
Abbey Campbell: Absolutely. (22:37):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: Just making sure it's not a giveaway scene. (22:38):
undefined
Yeah. Yeah.
A spoiler alert.
Speaker4: Yeah, this is good. (22:44):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: So. Oh, yeah. (22:45):
undefined
So okay.
Speaker4: So yeah, so. (22:47):
undefined
Isaac Cook: It's like standard pages and then it has your kind of (22:48):
undefined
stereotypical like sign off and signature and then
like.
Speaker4: Ps Yes. (22:54):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: And the sign offs, they change and they add like a (22:56):
undefined
deeper meaning to the context of the story.
Speaker4: Oh, there's my heart burst. (23:05):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: Yeah. And it's very, I don't know, I guess it's, it's (23:08):
undefined
a very unique story in the sense.
Of like I mentioned in the if you like, this
thinking about like the innate pain and kind of
humiliation of desire sometimes.
And that's not it's not a good nor bad thing.
I wanted to include that to say like sometimes like
(23:29):
loving someone so much can, you know, feel
humiliating sometimes because you're so head over
heels, especially if it's like an enemies to lovers,
sort of forbidden love.
Like there's all these other contexts that make it
so high risk and deep.
I suppose you can say it's very good.
I really love it.
Cyn Sweeney: Oh, that sounds great. (23:50):
undefined
And yeah, I think, you know, was we were talking
about before, just about like the past and the
present and the important of the storytelling and
the idea of like this being like you're going back
in time and, and it's a well as soon to be queer
couple because they haven't met in the beginning you
(24:12):
know just having these books out there is so
important as we were preparing to to record this, I
a news article had popped up just like yesterday or
the day before on the Washington Post about
objection to sexual LGBTQ content propels Spike in
book challenges. And so, you know, when we look back
to I think I had mentioned to Isaac, it was like May
(24:35):
6th, 1933.
So 90 years ago was like the that first like the big
book burning in Nazi Germany, which was targeted at
LGBT books along with Un-german books.
But you know, 90 years down the road and, you know,
the headlines are are scary, you know, they're kind
of like the more we change, the more we stay the
(24:57):
same. And so I do think that this, you know,
surgeons in LGBTQ, two plus fiction, nonfiction,
graphic novels, all of that is so great.
And, you know, no matter how hard I think people try
to ban it, it's not going to go away.
It'll just, you know, it'll make it it'll make them
(25:18):
more, more sought after, hopefully.
Yeah.
Speaker4: Yeah. (25:21):
undefined
Isaac Cook: And it's it's definitely an experience that's being (25:22):
undefined
felt, you know, in particular in the United States
right now. I know I think it was Florida.
God love Florida that there was a teacher that
showed a movie that it didn't directly have a queer
character, but like there was a character with like
a same sex attraction or that was mentioned maybe
(25:44):
briefly once. I can't remember the movie name.
It was relatively new.
And now she is like facing jail time for showing a
movie to like her class.
Like just as like, this is a rated G movie.
It's a Disney movie, I'm pretty sure.
Speaker4: Or I've heard that story. (25:59):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: Yeah. (26:01):
undefined
Speaker4: And it's just. (26:01):
undefined
Isaac Cook: Like, Come on. (26:02):
undefined
Speaker4: People. Yeah, We're. (26:03):
undefined
Isaac Cook: Really, you know, reaching at grass here. (26:05):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: Yeah. And it's happening right here in Canada, too, (26:08):
undefined
like Brandon, Manitoba, New Brunswick.
And then, you know, with drag queen story times, I
think there's one being organized in the Valley.
And some of the comments on Facebook are like, it's
a call to arms come out.
You know, it's almost like grab your pitchforks.
People don't let don't let you know these lovely
dressed, beautiful queens come and read to children
(26:30):
and make them happy.
And, you know, it's just it's really, you know, and
it's misinformation.
I think it's people that are being so fueled by this
sort of misinformation out there.
If you maybe picked up a book or two and actually,
you know, took a look at it first and had a read of
it, you could actually probably a lot of it would
resonate with you whether, you know, you're
cisgender or whether you're queer.
(26:51):
Just like before these kinds of books were out
there. I imagine as a you know, as a queer person,
you could pick up a book and read it and still it
could resonate with you, right?
You know, I think we find what we need from the
stories that we read.
Speaker4: When I was. (27:06):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: Younger, I read and like in school, I read about (27:06):
undefined
countless characters that are straight and cis and I
watch movies. It was the norm.
It didn't I wasn't being pressured into being
straight or cis.
No one's forcing me.
It didn't. Reading these sort of stories didn't make
me a certain way.
(27:26):
It's so weird when folks say like, Oh, if we let
children read about gay representation, it's going
to turn them gay.
Like what? That's not how this works.
Cyn Sweeney: No. And as I actually from our office had said the (27:37):
undefined
other week, we were talking about this and she said,
you know, like, look, it's shown from conversion
therapy that you can't make somebody not gay, so you
can't make somebody gay.
Like it's just yeah, you know, I said it yesterday.
I was doing a reading of the Pink Balloon, my
children's inclusive school book to elementary
school classes. And we were talking about, you know,
(27:58):
how, you know, the innate ability to know if you're
left handed or right handed.
How do you know? You just you just know and somebody
can force you and make you write right handed.
But it doesn't mean that you're right handed.
It doesn't mean it's comfortable. It means that you
can do it. You can, you know, you can do it and get
away with it so well.
Isaac Cook: And even on that same same train of thought too, (28:18):
undefined
there's all that like data coming out being like,
there's so many like trans or queer people or
whatever. And then there's also there was a someone
posted on Twitter. It was like, there's the same
parallels of that with like people now comfortably
identifying that they're like left handed and like
because it used to be exactly that, that you have to
write with your right hand, you have to do it.
(28:39):
That's the normal thing to do.
You know, a very, very minor comparison in the grand
scheme of things. But just to, you know, help
connect the dots to folks who may not have thought
of these things. Right. Like that's this is a normal
conversation that we're having in today's world that
people are able to be left handed.
People are the way that they are.
Let them live their life.
Speaker4: Exactly. Yeah. (28:58):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: And there's not like one thing that made them left (29:00):
undefined
handed, like, oh.
Speaker4: It's a. (29:03):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: Failure on my part. (29:03):
undefined
Speaker4: It's failed as a parent. (29:05):
undefined
Oh, no.
Cyn Sweeney: I should have eaten more ice cream when I was (29:08):
undefined
pregnant.
Speaker4: Yeah. (29:11):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: What's happening? Well, let's let's dive into this (29:13):
undefined
memoir now. So we've had a sci fi and now we've got
a memoir, graphic novel called Us by Sarah Soler.
And this one is not even out yet.
So. But you've had a sneak read of it.
Abbey Campbell: Yes. So the original language that it's in is (29:30):
undefined
Spanish. However, the English translation is going
to be coming out on July 25th this summer.
Cyn Sweeney: So an August read. (29:42):
undefined
Maybe tell us a little bit about about what you what
you liked about it and about it.
Yeah.
Abbey Campbell: So again, this is a graphic novel that is a memoir (29:49):
undefined
about Sarah Soler and Sarah Solas, Sola's wife,
Diana. It's about their love story.
And Sarah illustrates their shared past as a
heteronormative couple and guides the reader through
the ups and downs of coming out and accepting
yourself. So for Sarah, it was finding out that she
(30:10):
was bi and for Diana, it was finding out that she's
trans. And if you like, realistic depictions of
relationships like the ups and downs, sometimes the
hardships and the absolute funny little moments or
the joy.
If you love humor, if you love reading about
characters who embrace who they are and who their
(30:32):
loved ones are, if you love expressive art, if you
love communication between characters, if you love
nerdy things and also general shenanigans, I think
you're going to absolutely adore this book.
It is so full of heart and it is also very like it
knows about what time it's written in, as we were
(30:55):
just talking about, with everything happening across
the world, especially in America, for instance, it
also touches on like the world of graphic novel
publishing. And, you know, is this story actually
going to take off the ground with all of these new
restrictions that are happening?
Is it better to stay safe rather than be who you
(31:18):
are? It is a very fun book and a very important book
as well, because while it still has humor, it also
has it's truth hitting moments and it's a very good
balance. The illustrator who is also the author,
Sarah, um, she made the colors of all the book,
different shades of the trans flag.
(31:40):
So it's just.
Speaker4: Like that little like. (31:41):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: One of those little intricate ways of showing pride, (31:42):
undefined
showing, like this is the essence of the book and
like embracing her wife and who she is.
And oh, it's so good.
Isaac Cook: I love that. I love that it's written from her own (31:53):
undefined
experiences.
Cyn Sweeney: I think it'd be a whole other level actually, to kind (31:58):
undefined
of try and do a graphic novel to write it and then
illustrate it because you're illustrating, you're
like, Yeah, I, I think that sounds fabulous.
And when you read it.
Abby Then it wasn't the Spanish copy, was it?
Did you have an English copy or had.
Abbey Campbell: The English translation? (32:17):
undefined
So I sent, I read it.
I was able to send feedback of it and it was a lot
of positive feedback, honestly.
And I'm very excited for the English translation to
be released because I'm grabbing that so fast and
I'm going to throw it at all my friends.
(32:39):
Gently throw it.
Isaac Cook: Yeah, yeah. Birthdays, Christmas, any holidays this (32:40):
undefined
year? This is what you're getting from Abby.
A good.
Speaker4: Gift. (32:46):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: I just love that you put general shenanigans into (32:47):
undefined
just because that word is in there.
I'm like, okay, I've got to pick that one up too.
So you'll have to remind me then when you're going
to get your copy, I will come and get a copy with
you. Is it a lot of pictures with little words per
page, or is there like, what would be the balance of
like pictures? Two words per page?
Abbey Campbell: There's a really good balance between the art and (33:05):
undefined
also the lettering.
I suppose I can say, because it's not like a
generated. It's the author like wrote out every
word, but it is legible.
It's not hard to read.
It's like an accessible font, almost.
And there's also some times where the author will
(33:25):
add like a certain emphasis to a word in an artistic
way that, you know, it signifies the importance of
it. And then they'll go on to maybe draw like a very
dramatic, angry face of passion.
Cyn Sweeney: My head just went to Batman and Robin cartoons when (33:39):
undefined
they go pow bang.
Speaker4: Yeah. (33:43):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: Yeah. (33:44):
undefined
Speaker4: Expressive. And that's like. (33:45):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: The background of the traditional, like, comic and (33:47):
undefined
graphic novel industry coming out.
And like, that just shows the history and how you
can even make it inclusive or make it your own.
And as time evolves, we do too, and stories evolve.
I love it.
Cyn Sweeney: So let's let's go into the final chapter of your your (34:04):
undefined
next Wish List book.
You've done a high fantasy Day of Fallen Knight by
Samantha Shannon.
Let's hear about this one and why it's on your wish
list.
Speaker4: Absolutely. (34:21):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: So a day of Fallen Knight is actually very popular (34:22):
undefined
right now, especially in the sort of subcategory of
Sapphic queer literature, especially on something
called like book talk, which is just TikTok, where
folks talk about books.
And this is a brick of a book, let me tell you.
Speaker4: Holy smokes. (34:40):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: I was gonna say, like, how many pages is that? (34:41):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: Nearly 900 pages. (34:43):
undefined
Speaker4: Woo hoo! (34:45):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: Wow. (34:46):
undefined
Speaker4: Okay, so. (34:47):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: This book is the standalone prequel to Samantha (34:48):
undefined
Shannon's first book in this sort of world or
series, which is a priory of the orange tree, which
is also a brick.
Isaac Cook: Easy way to fill up a shelf, then? (35:03):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: Oh, yes. Both of these side by side are. (35:05):
undefined
Speaker4: Just they're. (35:07):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: Stunning. Yeah, really nice. (35:08):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: So again, it's the standalone prequel to the Priory (35:11):
undefined
of the Orange Tree, and it's set just shy of five
centuries before the prior of the orange tree and
covers the period known as the Great Sorrow.
So if you like again Sapphic love I read a lot of
Sapphic love intricate and immersive worldbuilding
and I mean that in every essence the description and
(35:35):
the the writing style it is so immaculate and it
just breathes life whenever you read it.
It's so good.
If you like queendoms, if you like diverse, strong
and emotionally complex women with swords.
I think you like this book.
And if you also like political theater and dragons
(35:59):
because dragons make everything better.
Cyn Sweeney: Yes, it's true. (36:02):
undefined
It is true for listeners that maybe like when you're
describing Sapphic, do you want to just dive a
little bit deeper if for somebody, you know, that
maybe hasn't is not familiar with that description?
Abbey Campbell: I like to describe Sapphic as it's another way to (36:15):
undefined
sort of say like women love women or women who love
non-binary folks.
It's basically just a way to say that these women
are in relationships that are primarily between two
women or more femme presenting or one woman, one
(36:37):
non-binary person, strictly just saying lesbian
relationship. It kind of brings into the context
that one of them could be bi and one of them could
be lesbian, or both of them could be bi or both of
them could be pan or one or so on and so forth.
It's a way to describe more of a relationship rather
than a specific identity.
Isaac Cook: It kind of reminds me of like the bisexual versus (36:59):
undefined
pansexual thing. Like people are like helping to
create new language to describe how people are
feeling, even though a lot of probably the
definitions are very similar.
Like, for instance, like a lot of people used to
make the statement that like saying you're bisexual
is transphobic, which isn't the case.
And identifying as lesbian doesn't make you
(37:20):
transphobic by any degree either.
I love your description that like, Sapphic is just
like a softer way of like, describing it, and it
helps create that more community essence, which is
also kind of how I feel about like being pansexual
is that there's like another community with that.
Abbey Campbell: It's definitely a something that is ever evolving as (37:33):
undefined
most language is.
As someone who identifies as a lesbian.
I also embrace the term Sapphic, just because in
some cases it's easier to explain complex like
gender identities that are still included in like my
(37:54):
romantic and sexual attractions to folks.
My girlfriend, for example, she uses He/They
pronouns isn't necessarily nonbinary, but also isn't
isn't necessarily a binary woman.
So I describe us as a Sapphic relationship.
I would also still describe us as a lesbian
relationship.
Speaker4: It could be. (38:13):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: Difficult because of again, you were saying, like a (38:14):
undefined
lot of people have these preconceived notions that
all lesbians are transphobic or all bi people are
just blah, blah, blah.
Yeah, which is not the case whatsoever.
It's it's just stigma.
Isaac Cook: It's very important for people to talk about, though, (38:29):
undefined
because I think like, as I said, I think a lot of
folks have these questions that they hear these
words or like, you know, if someone says this is a
Sapphic centered space, you know, if I don't
necessarily identify with that, like, is that still
a space that works?
I'm not talking about me directly, but.
Speaker4: Individuals. (38:48):
undefined
Isaac Cook: Who identify as non-binary mean, which is myself. (38:49):
undefined
But for individuals who identify as non-binary, if
they're like it's a Sapphic centered space, like is
that a space for me?
Is that where I should feel comfortable and to each
their own, you know?
Cyn Sweeney: Yeah. I mean, it's good to have these conversations (39:03):
undefined
and you know, the first time I had met, I was at an
event and there was a couple there that was
together, um, a lesbian couple and how they would
self-describe. And when I was talking to them about
gender identity and what we do and like the
experiences and that they were like, it was a light
(39:23):
bulb moment too. They're like, Oh, we didn't really
know about, you know, the trans experience like in
that the gender identity and how, you know, but
we've never really asked about it.
So, you know, even within community, there's still
always opportunity to, to learn and grow.
Yeah.
Isaac Cook: And there's still, you know, like discrimination and (39:39):
undefined
such within the community or biases towards certain
identities or, you know, how people talk.
But the beauty of having not necessarily new
language, but different language is that people are
able to find what best represents themselves.
You know, if we're making more words within the
community, doesn't mean there's less community for
(39:59):
other people. It just means that there's sacred
spaces for people who need that.
That is.
Speaker4: Exactly. (40:03):
undefined
Isaac Cook: That'll be my quote of the day. (40:04):
undefined
Speaker4: Yeah. That's all you're getting. (40:06):
undefined
Yes.
Cyn Sweeney: Good stuff. (40:09):
undefined
Oh, well, I've really you know, I've enjoyed hearing
about these books.
And I think we're kind of we're probably getting
short on on time to dive into your complete wish
list. No, but we can.
Why don't we? We could run through the some of your
wish lists that might be, you know, might go on to
other people's lists for the summer as we're
(40:30):
approaching into warmer weather shortly.
Isaac Cook: Yeah. And we'll also make sure to include the full (40:34):
undefined
wish list in the Google doc or wherever this full
wish list will live because I know I have some some
additions to as well.
Abbey Campbell: I will just mention the one book that I'm looking (40:44):
undefined
forward to reading over the summer that is on like
the tippy tippy top.
I want to read it so soon.
It is a contemporary young adult novel called Ender
and Santi were here by Jonny Garza villa.
And to describe it, it's kind of a um, Aristotle and
(41:05):
Dante meets the Hate U Give meets The Sun is also
star. All of those are young adult books, by the
way. So this is like a stunning contemporary love
story about a Mexican-American non-binary teen who
falls in love with an undocumented Mexican bisexual
boy. So if you like supportive family members,
Latinx representation, urban art, there's lots of
(41:27):
fun graffiti art moments, apparently, and I'm just
excited for it.
Good food. There's lots of food description and
character driven stories.
So not necessarily plot, but more like focused on
the characters. You will love this book Again,
content warnings are going to be in the show notes
for this one.
Cyn Sweeney: Thank you. That sounds great. (41:45):
undefined
Urban art and good food.
I'm like, I'm there.
Yeah.
Speaker4: Already sold. Yeah. (41:50):
undefined
Cyn Sweeney: Oh, well, thank you so much, Abby, for joining us (41:52):
undefined
today. It's been super exciting.
And for me that, you know, it's hard to get me into
a book, but everyone that you've said here, I'm
going to write down, I'm going to go out and search
them.
Speaker4: Yeah, no, absolutely. (42:06):
undefined
Isaac Cook: As I said, I don't necessarily identify as an avid (42:07):
undefined
reader, but some good queer novels.
Love it, love it.
Speaker4: More lists. (42:15):
undefined
Isaac Cook: Like this. Yeah. (42:15):
undefined
Speaker4: But yeah. Thank you so much for having me. (42:18):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: It was a blast. (42:19):
undefined
Isaac Cook: Yes. Thank you so much. (42:20):
undefined
It was lovely learning, you know, about not only
your personal experiences, but also, you know, your
journey as a reviewer or how would you identify
like.
Speaker4: Just like book. (42:33):
undefined
Abbey Campbell: Reviewer, I suppose it's like a little side gig that (42:34):
undefined
I don't I don't necessarily get paid.
I just get sent a book sometimes and then I review
it.
Isaac Cook: Yeah, nice. Well, you get paid in the enjoyment of (42:41):
undefined
reading, so there you go.
Heck yeah. But thank you so much, Abby, for for
joining us today. It was a real pleasure.
Cyn Sweeney: The last episode of the season is will be coming up (42:49):
undefined
next in a few weeks and then we'll be breaking for
the summer. So don't know, maybe if any of you do
pick up some of these books that Abby's recommended.
We would love to hear from you in September on what
you thought.
That's all the time we have today, folks.
Thank you for joining us for another episode of Hey,
Cis!.
Isaac Cook: The conversation doesn't have to stop here, though. (43:10):
undefined
If. You would like to get in touch with us to ask us
a question or share your story on a future episode,
you can email us at Connect at Simply Good Form dot
com or visit us on our website at Hey, Cis!
dot com.
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