063 - How Nurturing your baby transforms their brain | The Nurture Revolution - Hey Shayla - Judgement Free Motherhood 😅😭😍

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I always bring it back to like a chrysalis.
In the side of chrysalis, thecaterpillar doesn't just sprout
wings, it completely breaks downinto goo, into a pile of goo,
and then reassembles as abutterfly.
We do that.
We're almost like broken downinto goo, just like our babies,
and we're both like growingbeside each other, and that's

(00:20):
reflected in the brain too.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hey guys, my name is Shayla.
Welcome to the hey Shaylapodcast.
I went from full-time travel tofull-time new COVID mom and now
I'm a mom of two.
And holy wow is motherhood andadulting a learning curve.
There are so many decisions weneed to make and a million ways
to do it right.
I created this podcast tointerview some of my gurus, to

(00:49):
share their knowledge andempower you on your journey.
Let me be your guinea pig andask the question.
Think everyone else knows here.
We're a little hippie.
We try to do things asnaturally as possible, we're
open-minded and we don't takeourselves too seriously, but
above all, we support oneanother and work to find what
works.
If you're into it, you're ourpeople.
Let's get started.
Hey guys, welcome back to thehey Shayla podcast.

(01:13):
Today I'm so excited.
I always say I'm so excited,but I'm so excited.
Recently I got recommended abook called the Nurture
Revolution.
This book is so validating Ifyou are a parent who does an
intuitive approach, a verynurture-based approach, and it
feels hard and society istelling you you're making this

(01:36):
harder than it needs to be, likeyou should just sleep, drain
your baby or they need to bemore independent.
This book validates everything.
So the author is Dr GreerKurschbaum and for over 15 years
in neuroscience labs she hasstudied how genetics and
experience shape the brain, thenervous system and the body to
influence lifelong mental andphysical health.
That's what the whole book isabout, and eventually, obviously

(01:58):
she wanted to get thisinformation out of the lab, it
into families and so she wrotethe book.
She does one-on-one counseling.
She has a whole Instagram whereshe talks about all of these
things and it's just.
The information is invaluable,I think.
But what I love most about herbook is the neuroscience
foundation with her realisticapproach.
Like she's, like this is whatthe research shows, but like in

(02:19):
real life, this is how you'regoing to do it.
So if you want to find morecontent from Dr Greer, her
website isnurture-neurosciencecom, or
she's on Instagram nurture,underscore neuroscience,
underscore parenting, or you canread slash, listen to the book
the Nurture Revolution.
Let's get into this interview.
I'm so excited.

(02:40):
All right, let's start thepodcast.
I'm so excited to have Dr GreerKirschenbaum on and thank you
so, so much for agreeing to comeon and chat with me.
When you agreed, I told myhusband I was like she said.
She said yes, yes, shay, that'sreally cool.
I'm like no, this is soexciting.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Amazing.
I mean, like I said, I am sohappy to connect with you, know
so many people who the bookspeaks to and it's such a joy.
Totally, that was the wholepoint.
I want to share it, spread themessage and, yeah, I'm always so
happy to connect.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Well, and that's what I loved about your book, too,
is it was so science-based butyou're like but here's how it
works in real life.
Like this is what I know, but Ialso know that you don't live
textbook and like you gave greatexamples, which was also so
nice to hear.
Yeah, for sure, and our, thiscommunity like if you my YouTube

(03:39):
videos, I'm always like hey, myname is Shayla and we do things
kind of granola, kind of hippie, kind of natural, and so, like
the community is built aroundthis sort of content.
So I know that everyonelistening is going to be like
thank you for telling us this.
So, all right, let's getstarted.
So I always like to start withhow did you find yourself here?

(04:00):
How did you find yourselfduring neuroscience and doula
and like the combination ofthings that you do is so
interesting and fascinating.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, thank you so much.
It's it's honestly just beenthe flow of my life.
I you know the ideas andinspiration for the book.
It includes my entire personallife, my academic life, my life
as a neuroscientist and then thedoula and mother.

(04:30):
I was a really high needs baby.
It starts with that, it startswith me and then this part I'm
actually investigating more andmore lately.
I've just started.
I went to the birth APA birthpsychology conference and spoke
there a few months ago and nowI'm, like you know, going deeper
into my own birth experienceand how that is actually a huge

(04:50):
part of us too.
There's so much, oh, my gosh, Ido feel like I was, yeah, this
was you know, yeah, I was borninto it, basically Literally,
yeah, completely.
So I was like, yeah, it wasreally I was.
You know, the part of my birthstory I'll just say it because
it's been on my mind lately thatI have not fully acknowledged
was that I was separated from mymom at birth because I had

(05:15):
blood sugar issues, I think, andthey wanted to monitor me.
And now we know all blood, likeblood sugar, gets stabilized
when moms are on the babiestogether, so it was totally
unnecessary and they brought meto my mom.
I knew this part but I alwaysdismissed it.
I was always like my birth wasfast, like when I'm always talks

(05:37):
about, it was very quick, I wasborn very quickly, it was all
very fast.
So like that's, that's thestory I always told myself.
But I was blind to this partand this part is really
meaningful for the book and thewhole.
You know motivation.
I was separated and my momalways told me this part of the
story but I blocked it out.
The nurse would brought me backto her screaming, completely

(06:02):
dysregulated screaming.
My mom was in the showercovered in soap and the nurse
said to her you have to takeyour baby.
She's been like this for awhile, oh, and we can't calm her
down, and so my mom had to liketake me covered in soap shower,
shower and reunite with me.

(06:23):
And so I think that some of thatexperience I mean I know that
some of that experience is partof this that was so painful as a
baby experience I've been ableto explore some of that and some
birth psychology kind ofsessions and I think that is
like that's the beginningcatalyst.
Yeah, I mean for the, forbabies.
I know what it feels like to bea baby in pain and separated

(06:46):
and not have what I needed.
I mean, I went on to be reallyhigh needs.
Like I said, cried a lot,always needed to be sleeping on
somebody or touching somebody atleast call all the babies I
talk to and the only families Iwork with, and and so I had my
mom fully was showed up for that.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
I was breastfed for a long time.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
I bedshared, you know .
But we are calm, you havedifferent.
You know, combos of highnurture and low nurture
practices, right, All mixed in.
But my mom always talked aboutit and she got a lot of her
support from Lollechae oh nice.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
You know she went to a support group and they were
like listen to your baby, youknow.
And so my mom is like reallyfor it.
Yeah, she's on.
That was always in my mindGrowing up.
I always heard about what I waslike as a baby and my mom would
always talk about how porn itwas.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
That she oh, I love that.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah, and she was a rebel, like everyone around her
were not, was not doing it.
She was similar with my brother, who's four years younger than
me.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
And I saw her friends criticizing her.
Oh no, yeah, Cause you were oldenough to be able to see.
Well, and I'm just imagining,cause you were the first born.
I'm just imagining my firstborn being separated from her
and then being in the shower,because even when they hand you
the baby, like in your firstmoments, you're like what?

(08:15):
Like this is my child, like, so, like her being super
vulnerable in the shower, nakedlike soapy, and then being
handed her baby for the firsttime and just be like right,
yeah, and just oh, wow, yeah,that's a.
That's wild from both ends.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
And she had a lot of experience with baby.
She's the oldest of five kids,okay, so she wasn't totally born
.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, I think she was like a pseudo mom.
Yeah, totally, but yeah it wasreally interesting.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
So you know I've always been attuned to this idea
, really got deep into it.
Am I undergraduate?
I did undergrad in neuroscience, really kind of discovering
like what is early lifeexperience?
How does that shape us in thein, what does that mean in the
brain?
Continued that, read, you know,continued.

(09:09):
I just loved research, keptgoing, did a PhD and postdoc and
by the end of it I was like wenow have so much information
about how critical this time isto grow mental health for babies
.
It wasn't even that, wasn'teven well known when I started
my neuroscience career.
It was also like right time,right place.
Yeah, I was sort of trackingthat research as it in real time

(09:32):
as it came out.
I think I like 700 referencesin my book and like those, all
those studies were coming outlike over those 15, 20 years
where I was like oh, there's anew one, add that to the thing,
add that to the thing right.
Yeah, Learning it.
And yeah, by the end I was likeI don't see any parents know
this.
It's so important, Everyone hasto know this, and so I was like

(09:56):
I'm going to go and do that.
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing, Icame to do that, mom and finally
wrote my book.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, and I'm so glad you did.
And I had I just interviewedanother PhD who does a lot of
lab things and she was like it'sall for nothing, literally,
unless you can get it out topeople.
And she said that process is sodifficult, like it's like
locked behind passwords and paidthings and you have to pay to
publish and whatever.

(10:24):
So I love that.
You were like all right, cool,now we know this.
Now let's get it out to theworld and well, that's it.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
There's no in that system.
There's no, like you know,scientists could do it, but
they've got what they work 100hours a week anyway.
So some do somehow, somehowsome find the time, but but
there is, that's not part of thesystem.
Right, science, translation,right and vacation.
So yeah, you do have to kind ofget out there, yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, and I was so, so, so good, and it's all
publicly funded.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
That's what it was like.
One of the biggest things islike we've all paid for this.
It's all through grant, throughgovernment grants.
Oh right, yeah, yeah, all ourdollars.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, and to not be able to easily access the
information creates a lot ofmisinformation that does get to
be spread easily.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah 100% and you know, even if we did have open
access to the journals, whichthere are ways of doing that.
Now there's a few places thatdo that, and also for anyone
who's listening, who wantsaccess to research, you can
email researchers and they willsend you their papers.
Oh, one would ever hold thatback from someone?

(11:40):
Yeah, but but even if you canget them, you also like there's
jargon, right?
You need a lot of practice oreducation, right?
Even understood, be able toread it Totally Okay.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
So the book is called the nurture revolution.
So what is the nurturerevolution and what is the
nurture approach to parenting?
That's a big, loaded question.
But general idea of what youfound and what you like teach
people.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
So you know, the first part of my book is really
is explaining the neuroscienceof infancy and parenthood,
because you know I've alreadykind of said the infant brain is
.
I mean, the amount of growth isjust tremendous in the infant
brain it's creating a millionconnections per second,

(12:37):
sometimes up to two millionconnections per second at
certain times.
Like it's really incredible,it's really fast and complicated
, and just this beautifulopportunity where we can use
what I call nurture you know theconcepts and I'll define it
more closely to connect thosebrain areas for babies to grow

(12:57):
the foundation of mental health,right, a lot of the emotional
brain areas are formed.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
And when you say infancy, you mean zero to three.
That's right, zero to three.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yes, which is also, you know, not all you know,
that's no.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
I'm like after six months they're not an infant
anymore.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
That's like my yeah 100% and it is fully three years
.
Anyone who has a child, youknow, can know on an emotional
level they are a fully a baby.
For those three years I stillyeah, so, yeah.
So there's just incrediblegrowth in the baby's brain in
those first three years and it'sa really sensitive time.

(13:36):
We don't have access to growthose brain structures so as
significantly as we can in thosefirst three years, it's a
really tremendous opportunity.
And then we have like a mirrorand they kind of like mirroring
it.
The parent's brain growth isalso happening in those first
three years.
Yeah, a lot of the same brainareas, so a lot of the brain

(13:58):
areas that grew in our infancyis we get access to remodeling,
wow, and so that's where a lotof like you know I talk about.
You know you're taking care ofyour baby.
Take care of your inner babytoo.
You know we would never let ourown baby be, hopefully not be
you know, hungry or thirsty orlonely or, you know, in pain

(14:22):
alone, and that goes for us too,right?
We need to give ourselves thatsame loving care as well, and if
we do, we can reshape ourmental health in care and health
as well, right, that's sofascinating.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Well that's.
Is that similar to matrescence,or is that totally different?

Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yep, that's the same process.
Yeah, matrescence yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
That melted my brain to learn that again incredibly
validating, because you're justlike oh, there's a grace period,
kind of, where I like get tocome into this parenthood and
everything is changing andthat's supposed to be how it is.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, and you're supposed to kind of, like you
know, our identities change somuch like we, like I always
bring it back to like achrysalis.
Right, we, like you know,inside a chrysalis the
caterpillar doesn't just sproutwings, it completely breaks down
into goo, into a pile of goo Ididn't know that and then

(15:21):
reassembles as a butterfly.
What?

Speaker 2 (15:23):
We do that 100%.
I was goo, I was definitely gooWow.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah and we're.
We're almost like broken downinto goo, just like our baby's,
kind of like born like with allthis.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
As goo.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
As goo and we're both like growing beside each other,
right yeah and I hear that fromparents all the time like
becoming a mom.
Heal has been the biggest partof my personal growth and
healing.
I feel stronger than ever, moreauthentic than ever.
I have my voice back, you know,or my voice for the first time,

(15:57):
and that's reflected in thebrain too.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Totally.
I feel like that after likeliterally three years, but for
those first three years that wasnot You're the goo, you're the
goo.
Oh my gosh, you're just like whyis I just remember, like,
repeating myself, like I needhelp, I need help, I need help,
I don't know what to do.
And you have all thisinformation Like social media is
the worst thing for well, Iguess, unless you're following

(16:24):
like your account, but like mostof social media is the because
there's conflicting informationand there's like information
that's like no, you're, you needto let your kid crack whatever.
There's just all okay, okay,okay, so yeah that's bad.
Yeah, so the nurture revolutionLike carry on, so yes.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
So the nurture revolution is, you know, both,
teaching parents thatinformation in like a really
accessible way, justunderstanding what's going on.
When we understand it, we canshed so many myths, all that
confusion that you justmentioned, right, I have 30 of
the biggest ones I talked abouta book there, on my social media

(17:07):
too, and I think thatsimplifies life for people.
They can ditch tons of anxietyquestioning themselves, you know
, and bring out from places thataren't between them and their
baby, right, and like I imagine,like all these kind of things
trying to like just get inbetween moms and babies, and

(17:27):
parents and dads and babies, andthese myths can kind of just
like create a shield around you,to be like I'm going to work
with me and my baby, we havethis relationship and nothing's
going to come in the way, yeah,yeah, so, yeah.
So the information part reallyimportant, and then the other
part is suggesting ways that wecan nurture our babies right and

(17:51):
to kind of help parents getbring again.
It all has to come from inside,right, and just to listen to
that voice inside, listen to theintuition inside of being able
to show up for our babies,because they communicate, we
hear them and they know, when werespond in a nurturing way,

(18:12):
we're really building theirbrain and building our brain.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
It's really good for everybody, and how would you
define nurture?

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, great question.
I think the dictionarydefinition is like you know a
relationship where you're caring.
You know caring for and showingup for someone, which is true.
I also see it as like thisreally intricate dance between
parent and baby, where you knowwe're emotionally there,

(18:45):
physically there and showing upboth with communication, you
know play.
We're showing up when babiesare stressed to help them
recover from stress and we'reshowing up to help them with
their sleep.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Those are like kind of the specifics yeah, totally,
and a few that I remember fromthe book are just like when they
need to borrow your brain,essentially, and that one is not
only validating but also likeso good for you to hear, for me
at least, because when my kid isjust like losing her mind,
sometimes I'm also losing mymind and sometimes I just want

(19:22):
to be like, okay, you need tojust sit there, I need to go
somewhere else, like I cannot, Icannot.
And then your book comes in myhead and I'm like she's not
going to be able to do this onher own.
I need to lock it up for aminute and I'm like go sit with
her so that we can both calmdown together, so that I can
help her do this, because yourbook explains that they're like
literally not capable.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's the biggest myth right,that we need to leave kids alone
to self sue their self.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
And they're like oh yes.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, and they can't, they really can't.
And that's such a good example,right.
I remember every time my sonwould melt.
He still melts down.
He's five, but as a baby, whenhe was younger, I would go there
too.
I would also get in fight orflight.
I would also get stressed, ofcourse.
It's stressful, happens so manytimes a day, right, I would

(20:20):
always bring myself back towhat's going inside, inside, on
inside of him, like he's scared.
He's so scared, he's so angryright now, he's so uncomfortable
right now, and that would helpme bring my thinking brain back
on and to show up and lend himmy brain.
Right, it's, you know, whenwe're in that fight or flight,

(20:40):
reactive state work, sort oflike what.
What are they doing to like?
why are they doing this andthat's what is going on for them
right, kind of.
As adults we do have a maturebrain and we can adopt a lot of
skills, a lot of techniques tohelp regulate ourselves.
I have a million in my book, awhole big long chapter on it,

(21:04):
and I have workshops and stuffto help people with the practice
and stuff, because it's soimportant they really need it.
They really need it.
There's no other route to calmfor babies.
They will get.
Their stress response ismounted and their only route to
calm is us lending up theirarmature brains to them.
They really need.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
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(22:28):
Let's get back to the show.
Well, and I remember readingthat, and when I say read, I
mean listen, I 100% listen inthe book.
I did not.
So thank you again for the that.
You were talking about how youshould connect.
Just a lot of connection, likewhen they are available to like,

(22:48):
connect with you, connect withthem play, yeah, just mostly
connection.
And I remember feeling likewhat if I need to do like, what
if I need to do the dishes?
What if I need to do what?
How can I connect with them allthe time, 24, seven, to make
sure that they're nurtured?

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
I really don't want the messageto come across as this is like
an intensive motheringsuggestion for intensive
mothering, where you're likealways hovering over your baby,
always like watching them like ahawk and not doing anything
else.
Right, and I actually am happythat I've gotten that feedback

(23:26):
from a lot of people that I wasso hoping for the book not to
feel and the whole message notto feel judgmental or to feel
like it has to be intense, right, yeah, but that is how a lot of
people will, you know, wonderabout it.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Well, I know, like, as a mom, you're like, okay, I
need to nurture them, I need tobe with them all the time I need
, and like the anxiety just goesand yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Completely, completely.
And I think the important thingis to know babies need this
stuff, like they certainly needthe stress regulation every time
right, and sometimes we can doit with like the whole, like the
nurtured empathy piece, theemotional coaching piece.
Sometimes we're gonna just belike I'm gonna hold you on my

(24:09):
chest and walk around.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
You know what I mean.
Like, well, if we don't have alot of gas in the tank, right,
like that's what we can do.
They do need us to show up forthat, you know, for the
connection piece and sleep andyou know all the other stuff.
They need us, but it doesn'thave to be intense, right, it
really does not have to beintense.
The communication stuff is kindof like connecting a few times

(24:32):
throughout the day, right,having a little connection in
the morning, have a littleconnection, you know, in the
afternoon and a little in theevening.
And, yeah, we can.
You know, obviously it's hardto do things for the baby, but
we don't have to feel bad if,like, they're playing beside us
on the floor, you know doinggreat, and we're washing dishes
or cooking or laundry oranything like that, right, and I

(24:55):
actually found out with my son.
Like you know, I would set uplittle things like that.
I would set up a little likeMatt with some new toys by the
laundry and you know, get themstarted and then you know, be
close and get it done right.
A lot of times we think likethey have to be in the other
room and like be okay, beingindependent, and like all that
kind of stuff.
You don't want to be close, butthere's a ways of like doing

(25:17):
all of it, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Well and yeah, and I say that about feeling super
like overwhelmed by reading it,but I agree with you In the book
you are very much like okay,well, and my favorite example
was your example.
You're like I am aneuroscientist, I know the
benefits of the first fewminutes with my baby, and guess
what?

(25:39):
I didn't get that.
And I was like oh, and you werelike, and so I knew I had other
opportunities to get that andthat worked out fine.
And I was just like okay, allright.
And you did mention like thisis not a full day thing.
This is not like you are onlyfocusing on your child.
This is like that, like makesure you connect with them in
the morning.
Good morning, I love you, howare you?

(26:00):
And then like a little bit inthe afternoon and that like just
alleviated all the stress andbecause of course, you want to
connect with them but you alsoneed to do other things.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, I'm like get out right, like go to the park,
go to the store, you know, takethem places, all that kind of
stuff.
Yeah, I talk about being versusdoing.
They need us to be with them.
To be aware with them and, youknow, in those states of
communication when they're openand receptive to it.

(26:32):
But of course there's stilllots of doing, Right yeah and
that yeah being versus doing.
That is a part of the pieceright Like we're going to be
doing a million things to do,but just adding in that
connection right Throughout isreally, really, really important

(26:52):
.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yes, so you mentioned nurtured empathy.
Can you elaborate on that?
Because that also I thought wassuper interesting.
Or I gave a couple of examples,because the examples that you
gave in the book again brainmelting.
I was like, okay, this is sogood.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah, it's really really great work based on
wonderful research, and so sonurtured empathy I kind of
alluded to it before is reallygetting behind your baby's eyes
in those, in all moments,actually the tough ones, but
also the joyful ones.
I think, yeah, our brains areso attuned to threat, fear,

(27:32):
worry, so we always are likethinking about the stress and
the hardships.
Also have to for ourselves asparents, really delight in the
good times and pay attention tothose, because our brains are
always going to be looking forthe threat and when something
good happens, we may be like,okay, great, something good
happened, let's move on.
But, really we have to be likelet's stay in that feeling, Like

(27:54):
let's really feel the joybetween me and my baby's
connection right now, or lookingat a new flower that came out
of the earth today, or somethingand same for our babies, Like
we need to show up for all ofthe things, right?
So, so nurtured empathy isreally getting behind their eyes
.
It's a, you know.
It's different than focusingjust on behavior.

(28:16):
It's really trying to use, youknow, our new skills as a parent
.
We get, you know, part ofmatrescence, patrescence.
We get increased empathy andtheory of mind, the ability to
get behind someone else's eyesand see the world from their
point of view, and we can dothat with our baby.
So, you know, let's say, ourbaby puts a puzzle piece in a

(28:38):
thing right, Like something likethat.
You know, you know, maybe ourdefault might be like I'm so
proud of you, Like this is allabout me.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
I'm so proud of you.
I have a smart baby.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
That comes to all of us, so like no one feels that
ashamed for that.
So there's that piece, butthere's also the like what can
we get behind the baby's eyes inthat moment, like, oh my gosh,
I saw you were trying so hard,you like move that around so
much, and then you got it in,like that must feel so wonderful

(29:12):
, like, how do you feel inside?
Does that feel?
Are you feeling happy?
Are you feeling proud ofyourself?
I'm so curious, right, yeah,and that will then, you know,
just help that baby be seen inthat moment and really celebrate
it in like a really positiveway, connects their brain and

(29:32):
the amazing ways we want it toand, you know, gives them that
intrinsic joy.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Like I did something hard and I feel good.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, instead of, my mom is proud of me.
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, that's like paintings.
When Ali brings me a painting,she's three and a half, but
she'll just be like look, andI'm like I don't know what that
is.
I'm like, wow, that isincredible.
I see the blue and the what didyou draw?
And just kind of likedescribing it.

(30:03):
Right, yeah, yes yeah, but italso works with the meltdowns
right, so like if they're havinga hard time.
Can you give an example likethat?

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah, for sure.
So it's so important for all ofthem.
So, you know, if there is ameltdown, let's say like I don't
know what did my son melt downabout this morning.
He wanted it's like in betweenwhether he wanted to wear
something that was too cold ortoo hot this morning, and I was
like we got to wear the rightthing, yeah.
So you had a middle meltdown,right.
So you know, what would I do inthat moment?

(30:33):
You know to sort of say likehey, listen, I see you're like
really, really upset.
I can, like you can, talk abouttheir behavior, like you're
like crying and you're like soyou know.
So, so, upset by this, Itotally got it.
You really wanted to wear theseother things.
You know I'm here for you, likeI'm wondering, like what's

(30:56):
going on, right, and justletting them have the feeling
and once they're kind ofregulated you can go back and be
like you know we're going towear the right thing we're going
to make the right choice andwear the right thing right.
So you know the secret of it islike wondering what's happening
inside, right, like I'mwondering, if you like, are you

(31:17):
so disappointed you wanted towear this other thing, are you
like you know?
Or maybe the one thing?

Speaker 2 (31:23):
is scratchy and they are just screaming about it and
you're like just put it on, thisis the one you need to wear.
Why are you fighting me on this?
And then, once you can like,calm them down and chat, and
then they're like this one'sscratchy.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
And you're like, oh well, let's cut the tag off,
yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
But you don't get there until you can like
understand, like even with mybaby, well, the baby relative,
right, but she's like a year anda half, almost two, and I'll
open the fridge for somethingand she just immediately starts
crying and I'm like why are youcrying, what?
Why are we crying?
What's happening?
And I can tell that she'sreaching.
She loves olives, so she'sreaching for the olives and I'm

(31:59):
like, okay, I see you want theolives.
I'm going to grab the milkfirst and then I'll grab your
olives diffused.
Yes, you just have to tell like,you just have to validate their
experience of like I see whatyou want and I'm going to
communicate that to you so thatyou know that I'm here, I'm
listening, I am behind your eyesand I'm going to help you.
Just, I just have to grab themilk first.
So, yeah, that part of the bookreally kind of hit home for me,

(32:24):
because I was like, yeah, thisis, yeah, just trying to see it
from their perspective insteadof yours, because you're late
now and now you're arguing withwhat you need to wear.
Just get in the car, let's go.
Like you're making me and justlike having to slow down and be
like oh yeah, I get it.
There's a rock in your shoe.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
I'm so sorry yeah absolutely, and if you're just
focused on behavior, you're notgoing to learn any of that stuff
.
Totally yeah, put this on, I'llgive you a reward.
Catch you things still in it.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Right.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
So I keep bothering them right.
You don't put this on in fiveminutes like you're going to
have punishment, yeah, andthey're still uncomfortable,
like you're not seeing them andunderstanding and I feel like
normally.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
I mean, yes, there'll be times when they do.
They're just defiant becausethey're being defiant, but, like
most of the time, there'ssomething like oh, I don't like
that one or this rock in theshoe or the scratchy thing, Like
there's something else going oninstead of them just losing it,
or there's a feeling right Likemaybe he was melting down
because there's something he'sworried about doing at school
today.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Mm yeah, totally.
There's so many differentthings that could be happening
yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
And unless you slow down to ask and like, get them
calm and regulated and then talkabout it, you're not going to
know.
Yeah, that's super interesting.
Okay, so the part that Ihaven't got to the book yet,
that I am just dying to, becausemy, I think my postpartum I had
a little bit of postpartumdepression, like nothing
diagnosed.
But once I had my second, I waslike, oh, it can feel like this

(34:01):
, like I didn't I haven't criedyet Like it was just drastically
different.
So much of it was around sleepand we did.
We coasted that from day one.
We did the floor bed, we didall of these things that were
like taboo and like I have asocial media platform.
And I was like I, what if I doroll over on my baby?

(34:22):
And I have just announced thatI coast sleep, like I was so
afraid to even like talk aboutit.
Now I'm like, if you need somesleep, here's how you do it,
here's the safe way to do ithere.
And like but I was like, but mybaby's not following the
schedule.
They've been awake for an hourand a half now and they are not.
I've been trying to get them tosleep for two hours and they're
not following it and like therewas so much anxiety that she

(34:45):
wasn't sleeping through thenight that she wasn't following
the wake window.
So she was all of theinformation that is like so easy
to Google about how much hoursmy kid needs to be sleeping and
whatever that put me in atailspin.
Like I'd go to dinner at mydad's house.
Dinner just came out and likesorry guys, we gotta go, it's
bedtime, we need to leave rightnow.
And they're like, okay, do youwant to go box?

(35:07):
And I'm like yeah, that'd begreat.
Bye, but that's so common, Ifeel like for first parents
because of all the information.
So I am so excited to get itinto your book, but I do want
you to like I want a littlepreview or a dabble, like what
it hurt.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
It's like it's so.
It always like I feel it whenpeople have that you know going
on because it's so common and sounnecessary.
It's like completely officiallycreated.
Just hearing you say that Poorbitch, it's all made up.
There's like no source of anyof that stuff, like I don't even

(35:45):
know if you ever You're ascientist.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
You're like show me the article.
Yeah, it doesn't come fromanywhere.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Oh, my God, you know probably what an average you
know some of these wake windowsand all these kinds of things,
so like what an average babydoes.
Totally, biology is like on agiant bell curve.
Everything has huge variabilityand there are studies that look
at normal baby sleep and itdoesn't look like that.
Right, it looks like giantagain.

(36:12):
Variability in number of naps,length of naps, time of naps,
same with bedtime and wake upsand through the night and all
this kind of stuff.
Right, it's huge variability.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
The studies show tons of variability.
Oh, oh, oh Are you kidding me.
Okay, all right, keep goingLike that makes me wanna cry.
That that is cause when yourbaby doesn't stick to what is
recommended.
You're like what am I doingwrong?
You don't really question yourbaby.
You're like what mistake am Imaking?

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, yeah.
It is a full out obsessioncreated by an industry.
They're telling you you have aproblem and you have to pay me
for this.
They have this solution right.
It's not ethical and I don'tthink anyone who's in it has
those intentions Totally.

(37:04):
Are also given that information.
They truly believe they'rehelping moms and babies.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
And they, most of the time, are cause, they can
usually get the results theywant.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yep, Yep.
Sometimes not all the time,yeah, but yes.
So firstly, to say, thisobsession with infant sleep like
can totally take over someone'slife, completely be the whole
root cause of postpartum anxiety, postpartum depression.
And when I work with peoplewhere they read into my book or

(37:38):
I have a sleep workshop comingup, just I'm so excited for that
because finally I can say itall yeah In one place.
People it's gone, their anxiety, depression are gone.
In the second, they're like, oh, that's all.
Like I knew all along, likewhat you know, that this was all

(38:01):
what my baby needed.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
So what did you?
What?

Speaker 2 (38:04):
have you found with, like nurtured sleep, or what
does that even mean?
Yeah, I love, I love to expand.
So yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
The other thing to say as well is over 90% of the
world does not watch their babysleep, because babies know how
to sleep.
No, they slept in your womb.
They also know how to birthright.
They also know a lot of things,right.
They know how to communicate.

(38:32):
They know all these things thatmost you know, western
societies have just been likethey're blobs, like they don't,
they don't know anything,they're not aware.
They're just like blobs andmaybe, maybe there'll be a
person one day and like that'llgive them respect and human, but
not when they're a baby, sonurtured.
Sleep really is so basic to me.

(38:56):
I know it's like very hard inlike this world of like all the
confusion.
It's when babies are tired,offering them an opportunity to
sleep.
When they want to wake up fromthat sleep, they wake up and
that just continues.
Okay, and they need help, right, they need help to fall asleep.

(39:19):
You know leaving them alone tofall asleep is not working with
their biology.
They need, they need that input, they need to borrow our brains
to fall asleep.
Some babies are born with, youknow, lower temperaments of
stress and they, they.
I have seen a couple of babieswho can be put down awake and
they kind of are fine to, justlike you know, suck their thumb

(39:40):
or rub their head around andfall asleep.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
Because it's a bell curve, you're going to have
those, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
The majority of babies I see, and I know I see a
sample, a specific sample ofbabies who are probably on the
higher end of needs need feedingto sleep, rocking to sleep,
cuddling to sleep, sometimesdriving in the car to sleep,
right Like movement to sleep.
So you know well that's a hugepart of nurtured sleep is
accompanying your baby and childto sleep.

(40:08):
Older children will start toask for it when they have words,
so certainly younger babieswant it and they also ask us
with communication.
So you know helping them tofall asleep, sleeping close, is
a big part of nurtured sleep.
Our brains stay connected andcan stay to have those benefits
of growth and sleep as well.

(40:29):
So I recommend same room sleep.
You know, as long as that worksfor a family, if they can do it
for the three years, that'swonderful, and sometimes beyond
as well.
And then treating stress atnight the same as we treat it
during the day.
Baby wakes up crying, you know,needing help, needing, you know

(40:52):
, comfort, providing that forthem Right and sometimes it's
literally just your body, I mean, most of the time even.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
But like my one and a half year old, when I get
pregnant I like have to weanthem, like I can't, and I think
that's biology too.
I think that's your body goingyo.
Why are we trying to keep twohumans alive?
Like let's live.
We're going to make this reallysensitive and kind of like.
But also, I mean my body doesnot get a period until I night

(41:21):
wean.
So I have to like intentionallynight wean to, which I know
goes against everything.
We're on a family planningmission but like I think it's
all.
I mean, it is all you know.
Your body's like okay, if we'regoing to sleep together, if
we're going to breastfeed.
Still, if we're going to nursethrough the night, we're not
going to let you get fertileyeah, to have another one.

(41:42):
And then when I mess with thecycle because I remember being
like I did this to myself, likeI messed with the biology or the
evolution of everything, and sothen I got pregnant, I was
still nursing and I was like Ineed to stop.
This is like the aversion tobreastfeeding.
I have never felt this beforeand I felt it with both my girls
, cause now I'm pregnant againand then it's your body going.

(42:05):
We can't what.
What?
Like we're trying to grow ahuman and grow a human Like
let's just do one at a time here.
All right, guys, we're going totake a brief break to talk
about our arrow.
Arrow is a phone charging boxthat's attached to an app that
tracks the amount of time thatyou're physically away from your
phone.
It gamifies it, so you getstreaks.

(42:25):
You've done five days where youput your phone in your box.
At least once You've done threehours away from your phone.
I have seen this on Instagramand I thought it would be like a
cool thing.
It is like, honestly, I don'twant to say life changing, cause
I mean I like that so cliche,but I want to put my phone in
the box during the day and Ireally do get excited when I'm
like I just clocked an hour.

(42:46):
Or every morning now it's anhour before we go to preschool
and I've noticed that my anxietyis down.
I've noticed that I'm like waymore present with my kids, so
their tantrums are down.
I've noticed that they haveless screen time, I've just
noticed.
So we get outside more, we playmore games, like you can
absolutely do this.
Just put your phone away.
But this box you have to pay forthe app.

(43:07):
So like that monetaryinvestment kind of makes you
want to do it more, cause she'slike, okay, I'm paying for this.
If you're not, by the boxthere's a flip mode where you
can just say start recordingthat I'm not on my phone and you
flip it face down and it startstracking that time.
So if you're like at dinnerwith your spouse or you're at
gymnastics, I really am lovingthis and if you know me, you

(43:29):
know that I'm always trying toget off my phone personally,
like, yeah, screen time for thekids, but like screen time for
me is something that I've beenworking on for a while.
So if this is also somethingyou're trying to work on, go to
hayshaylacom slash r?
Oa r o pod, p o d r o pod andyou can use hayshayla as a
discount.
Let's get back to the show.
I wanted a half year old tostill waking up at the night
consistently we are co sleepingstill but like last night she

(43:53):
started crying.
She wasn't super upset, but itwas just kind of like a ah,
where are you?
Like I'm going to sit here andjust kind of yell for you, and
as soon as I laid down with her,she fell asleep.
Yeah, that's it that she justneeded me.
And, like I, I interviewedsomeone about co sleeping
specifically and she's like howeasy is it when they're right

(44:14):
next to you to just like, yeah.
And she's like, when you gofrom your horizontal head to
your vertical head, like sittingup, that wakes you up more,
that creates more stress for you.
If you can just stay horizontal, pull your baby in, you could
stay sleeping.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Keep your sleep cycle synced Like it's just yeah, I
mean every animal on the entiremammal will say on the entire
planet.
Does that?
Like there's no reason whyhumans are from it, like it's
that's how animals take care ofbabies?
Yeah, oh that's just.
And some of the like things thatare put.

(44:53):
Usually it's mom, like who'staking care of a baby at night.
So I think it's like a feministissue, like the you know the
that task put on usually mom.
Sometimes it's not mom, butusually mom to be waking up,
walking down a hall how helpingthe baby fall back asleep

(45:14):
somehow, lowering them back downinto a crib, getting back into
bed falling back and repeatingthat through the night.
Of course that soundssustainable.
Right, drive someone crazy.
Of course they're going to usesomething like sleep training
because they have to.
That's the only alternative.
Okay, that's possible, right,right.

(45:35):
So, yeah, bringing.
I have a lot of parents to movefrom that to bringing their
babies closer, whether thatmeans Side crib, side crib,
exactly crib right next to thebed, or that for that exact
reason, if your feet don't touchthe floor, I like that.
I always say feet touching thefloor, but I like that like head
rising thing to do, the better,you might not even notice.

(46:01):
No right, it might just be likea really really yes, cause that
was the question.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Like oh, how often here's your baby wake up during
the night.
I'm like I don't know.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
She does.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
She absolutely does, but I couldn't tell you how many
times, because I just wake up,pull it, Cause the sleep cycles
right, Like you go into REMtogether and you go into light
sleep together and so you bothare in like light sleep so you
can pull them in and then goright back into the like yeah,
but I understand, like cause,even like you don't want to,

(46:31):
obviously don't want to rollover on your baby, like so
that's such a huge fear.
And then you have all yourparents and aunties and everyone
being like.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
Yeah, that campaign has been out for a long time and
it's not based on the dataeither.
So you know, the biggest riskactually is having a baby being
covered by a blanket or a softpillow or the bed being too soft
.
Okay, so the the rolling over,you know it's happened in some

(47:02):
instances and it is somethingelse we have to also protect
against, but it's not even thebiggest risk.
So that's even whatever youknow here like.
But you know, when we do lookat babies who do have, you know,
infant death, like SIDS oraccidental suffocation in sleep

(47:24):
there's, you know, if it's in abed sharing setup, like sleeping
side by side in a bed, there'salways a risk factor, like
there's, almost like it'sthere's either alcohol involved,
soft bedding, pillows, a gap,you know.
So we, you know I always sayit's important to say whenever
we talk about bed sharing orco-sleeping is adult beds are

(47:47):
not safe for babies.
That's really importantbaseline.
They're not safe for them.
You can't just bring your babyinto your bed, right, don't do
that, got it?
Follow very strict guidelinesto make your bed safe for a baby
and it has to be reallyunderstood by both parents if
there's two parents andmaintained like seriously

(48:09):
maintained, and that's La Leche.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
has like the seven sleep things.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
La Leche is really yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
So if somebody's like , okay, how do I do it, that's
what you're going to look up.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Yeah, I on my website .
I have a collection of La Leche.
James McCann's website hasresources.
Unicef has resource.
There's a couple others.
I have them all on my websiteso people can go there, and I
also really like co-sleepy'sresources.
I worked on those a little bitwith Tiffany, edited them, and

(48:44):
so she's got really greatresources for people too.
Because, it is.
Safety is so important withthis.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Of course.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
It's not like oh, what a.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
It's it is serious.
I should probably talk aboutthat more when I talk about
co-sleepy, because I'm just likethis is the greatest thing ever
, and you're right, you don'twant somebody to just pull there
.
It'd be like, okay, great.
Shayla says that this is howI'm going to get more sleep,
cause I've also heard thatbabies can like an.
Overheating is a really bigcause of SIDS too, where, like,
the blankets are too high andthey're just like hot, or the
pillows don't let their head.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
We don't want any blankets near them, any pillows
near them.
We want them just in one layerof clothing.
No long hair, Like we want ourhair we have long hair and no
cords around Right.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
Yeah, all that kind of stuff, yeah.
So do a little research beforeyou just hop into it, because
she'll recommend it co-sleepingit's also a good reminder for me
.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Some people are just not comfortable with it, and
that's totally fine.
Having a baby sleep right nextto you on their own surface is
also really, really wonderful,and some of the safety
guidelines actually precludesome groups of people from bed
sharing.
Yes, that's okay, too right,there's other ways around it.
You can still sleep close.
You can still get thosebenefits as well.

(49:56):
And some people are justthey're like I'm never doing
that, I just I'm too scared, Ijust no, never gonna happen.
I still want those people tohave the resources because we
know like reported 60 or 70% offamilies will bring their baby
into bed at some point out ofexhaustion or something like

(50:19):
that, and so I want people allparents, regardless, if they're
like my baby's in a crib intheir own room we're sleep
training them at three monthsbased on what they know, because
those families still bringtheir babies into bed.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
I would want them to sleep in bed Totally.
Yeah, that makes sense, butagain, I love that you're like I
think that you should sleepclose to your baby, I think that
you should respond to your baby, but that's not gonna work for
everybody, and like that's justwhat I like about the whole
everything that you do.
You're like this is what I know, but it doesn't always work and
that's okay, and you're notneglecting your child and

(50:54):
there's other ways to connectand there's other ways to still
get that benefit without doingcertain specific things.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Yeah, you know what this is.
I talk about in the book andall my work.
Like we're all coming from verylow nurture.
Most of us have been a productof all these like prescriptive
baby books and like so manysystems that separate moms and
babies starting in the womb.
For a lot of people, likethey're already, like don't you

(51:22):
hold your baby too much, likedon't even think of, like you
know it's already starting, andthe spoiling, the manipulating,
like all this stuff is out there, like super influential even
for us, like crunchy or momsright, like it's those voices
are still there, because they'reso prevalent right Because you

(51:43):
don't wanna do the wrong thing.
Yeah, so, yeah, 100%.
So we're all coming from lownurture.
If we, as moms, this like newgeneration of moms and dads, if
we can just be 10% morenurturing, if we can be 20%, we
have just be yeah, to move theneedle within our comfort, like

(52:03):
that is all positive, like allpositive direction.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
I love, love, love, love.
That, yeah, yeah, I agree.
Well, and sometimes I wondertoo like, am I over nurturing
because I am trying to make upfor it, right, you know what I
mean?
Like, am I doing too muchbecause I'm compensating?
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
I mean, I've asked myself the same question, I
think, in terms of like nurture,of like the you know presence
and empathy and stress and allthis kind of stuff.
As long as you check yourselfthat you are responding to
something and you know yourbaby's communication and your
baby's needs, you're not.
I think what is over nurturing?

(52:46):
I think over nurturing is someof the ways that these kinds of
parenting styles get criticized,where people are intensive,
where they are hovering overtheir baby constantly, not
giving them time and space toexplore and learn and fall down
and you know all that stuffwhere we're like bold, like it's

(53:09):
called, like bulldozerparenting.
Yeah, Like you know, neverletting them fail, never letting
them try the puzzle, neverletting them, you know, do what
we're like.
We have to do everything foryou so you don't ever experience
stress Like this kind of stuff.
This is not about preventingconfronting physical or

(53:29):
emotional stress.
We just that doesn't have toour relationship with them.
We don't want that to be asource of it.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Right, we want them to try things and then we can be
their help when they fail.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Basically, yeah, because studies actually show
when young ones develop with nostress, their stress system when
they grow up is also negativelyaffected.
They have to experience stress.
It's not about preventing it,it's about supporting it.
Okay, and so I think maybe overnurturing that could be there.
It could also be in thepermissive kind of parenting

(54:04):
where we're not providinghealthy boundaries for
respecting other people inourselves social boundaries,
right Social expectations wherewe're just sort of like whatever
my kid does, they do, rightLike, and not teaching them you
know, those kinds of things thatare.
Every family's gonna havedifferent values, but that's

(54:28):
important in parenting as well.
Right, we have to be in charge.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Yeah, firm, but kind is something that I've heard
that sticks with me.
Yeah.
I think, that's what I'm saying.
Okay, so, along the lines oflike feeling over nurturing, do
you ever find that there's likea major parental preference?
Because, well, I guess, unlessboth parents, okay, yes, yes,

(54:53):
because of the nurturing, orjust because of that.
That's the nature of parenting.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
I think it's the nature of it, I think it's part
of development.
I do need to look more into thescience of it, but uh-huh, yeah
, it's primary parent.
It's not always mom Like it'slike, because mom's primary
almost, you know, in many casesis primary parent and if mom's
breastfeeding like that's, thatis the primary place of like

(55:19):
like breastfeeding is like themost comfort, like it's
instinctive for everything.
Instinctful regulation,everything.
So of course that's.
It's like oh, I want that rightaway, right, like of course.
But also it's primary parent.
So I've also worked withparents where dad's primary and
they become preferred right.
If dad's spending, you know,taking the paternity leave right

(55:43):
, he's the primary go-to personfor all of the children, then it
could become dad, and also forparents who have two dads or two
moms, it's probably primary.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
Right Interesting.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
But it is real.
And then I also would alwayssay, like in those days when I
was primary, you know, myhusband was like well, what am I
?
Doing I'm like who are we doing?
I always want to help.
Dads and partners feelimportant they are also.
I mean, you're feeding me,which is making milk and feeding

(56:16):
our child.
You're, you know, doing, youknow everything to help me which
is helping the baby right?
It's like it's in the middle,then mom or primary person and
then the other like dad or theother right, and so it's is so
much.
And I've always said to him likeyou will have your day, trust
me, like, and now it's, now it's, it's totally.

(56:36):
I mean it's both of us.
But like, my second sweet phaseis where he is so dad and to
dad.
Yeah, and I think some moms getsad when that happens, but I'm
like lying back, I'm like.
I've been with him for threeyears.
This is my time to like have acoffee alone.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Totally definitely, cause it's so intense.
Yeah, that's, and I my husbandhad a hard time bonding with our
first and he felt bad about it,cause, like it would, he
couldn't comfort her, cause shewanted to nurse or she wanted
like she just wanted my bodyessentially.
And he's like okay, and I waslike this happened with our

(57:15):
first as well.
Like it's, and now it's likeokay.
As soon as we weaned she waslike, okay, who else is here?
Hey dad?
And now it's like they havethis great bond.
But part of me is like I want,well, I guess I'm wondering,
like with our third, I guessthis personal question, but like
I'm like I'd never tried togive them.

(57:36):
I tried to give them bottles.
They didn't really take it andI was like, okay, fine, then I
don't have to pump.
This feels easier for me.
But then you really become theperson that needs to take care
of them.
Like your, you can't be gonefor more than three hours.
There's like a lot.
And I'm like my older two areso excited about this baby and

(57:57):
I'm like I kind of want to pumpso that they can be some of the
nurturing with the bottles anddad can do that and it can kind
of be more of like a communitybaby, instead of just like mom's
going to go in the other roomand nurse again, mom's going to
go do this and like I'm happy todo it again, but I just feel
like the other ones will alsobenefit.
Is that that's?

Speaker 1 (58:18):
considered a nurture.
It can be for some people.
I also will say I also come infrom a place of hating pumping,
like it was just you know butbut like having some of that in
there there's nothing wrong withit and anyway it can do that.
But there's other things thatcan too Right, like after

(58:39):
nursing baby can go sleep on onsomeone too Right.
I used to have my husband likehave baths with my son.
Like he was born and they alwayshad the bath Like that was
their time, and you know andyour time, yeah, and my time,
yeah, having those you knowother moment like I would sleep
in and like you would have, likeI would feed my son and then

(59:01):
hand him off and sleep in andyeah.
The farmer's market or, likeyou know, other things like that
, like it can be a lot ofdifferent things and it can also
be pumping and bottles, but itdoesn't have to be that.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Got it yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
If you're going to maintain breastfeeding, you
still have to be feeding baby alot.
Yeah, right, yeah, I don't know, I think I mean breastfeeding
has.
So I mean you're going to bebreastfeeding anyway if you're
pumping, but it really does haveso many benefits, like the like
actually removing milk from thebreast for the baby.
It shapes their oraldevelopment.
It shapes, you know theirbreathing, you know because of

(59:36):
that, and their immune system.
They're not giving you theirgerms when you're pumping, right
, when there's that wholeexchange, right, um, so yeah, I
mean like, mix it up and see howit goes, Right, see how you
feel, right.
If you're like I like this,great.
If you're like a hate pumping,you don't have to do it, yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Okay, that's a good point.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Well, a lot of times people like for people listening
.
A lot of times people will makeit all hinge on the feeding and
be like my partner has to givebottles, or like they're not
going to bond with the baby yeah.
It's like you can create othertimes.
It is like bed and settled andlike the partner can.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Well, that's what I told my husband this time was
like, because my second lived inthe carrier.
She knocked in the carrier, shenursed in the carrier, she just
lived there because mom washands free.
So I was happy.
Baby was attached to mom, sobaby was happy, toddler was
happy because I could make eyecontact with her and the baby
kind of disappeared becauseshe's attached to me.
So it made everyone happy and Iwas like sometimes I felt bad,

(01:00:39):
I'm like I'm not like on thefloor playing with this child,
but she's attached to me 24,seven, looking at everything
that I'm doing, and so this is adifferent experience for her,
but I think it's just asvaluable in different ways.
Oh yeah, because she's just onme.
Yeah, but I told my husband thistime I'm like you are going to

(01:01:01):
wear this baby.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
And just on walks they can be with you, and so I
did that with my husband too.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Yeah, I'd make sure he had a carrier that fit him
Right, because they don't allfit everybody.
Yeah, they don't fit to investin that.
Totally Every hike, nearlyevery hike.
My husband would have him andyeah, that was a good part too.
Totally Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
So if somebody wants to work with you, I mentioned
your website and your Instagramin my intro and the book,
obviously, but you also offerone on one, coaching kind of I
want and I want to hear moreabout this workshop because I
might need it as well.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Yeah, for sure.
Sure.
So one on one coaching.
I offer sleep troubleshootingright.
If people come to me alldifferent times but if they do
feel a baby is waking hourly orreally really, really, really
frequently, or if they're havingthese like long periods of like
an hour or two of being awakein the middle of the night,

(01:02:03):
usually we can work together andhelp with that.
I'll just do sleep educationsometimes in those, but my
workshop is kind of that as well.
And then people who want to dotransitions, like night weaning,
moving baby to a differentsleep place, bringing dad or
partner in to help baby fallasleep Like we can do that in a

(01:02:23):
gentle way.
Some people are like that.
Yeah, those are the kind of thebig ones I think that I usually
help with.
I also do like one on one tojust coach parents like around
their goals with nurturing theirbaby, helping them figure
things out, helping themtransition to daycare or having

(01:02:43):
a nanny or caregiver.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
You know, come in and just see how the parenting,
mothering experience, which isso amazing because you need
someone in your corner who canvalidate these things, like that
was what your book was for me.
But even some of the thingsyou're mentioning, you're like,
okay, yeah, that would have beenso nice to have somebody with

(01:03:08):
like a science background andreal world knowledge, being like
, okay, yeah, this is whatyou're doing for your baby by
the things that you're doing, sogood job.
But also we can tweak them likethis and this and continue
nurture based and it's going tohelp.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
One of the biggest things I always wish I would
have given myself when I had mybaby was if I could go back in
time.
I would say, like take way moretime for yourself, like nourish
yourself.
I did get so depleted.
I had help Like I had a nannystarting around eight months,

(01:03:45):
but I would go straight to mycomputer like the second she
came home.
I'd be like work, work, work,work, work, and then she'd leave
and then it was back full on.
You know mothering right, and Iwould say, add in an extra hour
to that, and that time is foryou every single time so needed.
So I really like to helpparents with that as well.

(01:04:08):
Right, get some of that forthemselves.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
You are speaking to me directly.
That's what I tell them.
I'm like I'm either working orI'm parenting.
There's no like anything else.
But I feel like yeah, it's sonormally, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
That's good, and you can do it with or without paid
help, right?
You can have family give youthat time.
It can be one hour on aSaturday, it can be, or an
evening, you know it can be anytime.
But if you, even likepsychologically, know I have
that time, then what am I goingto do?
Totally, that's truly going tomake fill me up.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
Yes and I have that because I also feel like you can
find pockets of your day, Like,as my kids are getting older, I
feel like sometimes the benefitof them watching a show for 45
minutes as much as I'm like canjust transform me and I can just
replete my patience, my calm,my everything and then be like

(01:05:07):
all right, guys, what do we have?
What do we have for dinnertonight?
And just like yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
But, I think that everyone can do is like teach us
everywhere I go Two minutes aday, like two minutes throughout
your day, or even one minutethroughout your day.
Close your eyes and direct yourattention, like our attention's
always at the outside world, atour kids, everything.
Direct your attention inside,just like breathe and feel from

(01:05:37):
head to toe for like one minuteor two minutes, I swear, even
just doing that for two seconds.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
Yeah World right now.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
It's a total reset and really helps with stress and
feeling good.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
This is what this is, why you're so great.
I'm going to repeat it over andover I hope you get out this
podcast, feel great aboutyourself, but, like, honestly,
you're like, ok, make sure youpay an extra hour.
And then you're like but if youcan't do that, give yourself
one minute to just like chilland that's right.
Like yeah, because otherwiseyou just keep, keep, keep,

(01:06:10):
keeping and you just keepbuilding.
Yeah, I love that.
Awesome.
Yeah, thank you for being onand chatting with me about all
this.
It's been so, so good.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
I appreciate it.
You're sharing everything.
It was so nice to meet you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Yeah, it was great to meet you too.
All right, thank you guys somuch for listening.
If you enjoyed it, please sharewith somebody you think would
love, and I would be so honoredif you would subscribe to the
podcast and leave a comment andrating below so I can know what
you guys are digging, what youwant more of, just connect with
you a little better.
Thank you so much for listeningand I'll see you next time.

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063 - How Nurturing your baby transforms their brain | The Nurture Revolution

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}063 - How Nurturing your baby transforms their brain | The Nurture Revolution