October 6, 2025 • 24 mins
Intensity isn’t always anger—but it can really help to know the difference!
In this episode of Hey Tabi, licensed trauma therapist Tabitha Westbrook unpacks how to tell the difference between healthy intensity, destructive anger, and trauma-driven reactions.
If you’ve ever been told you’re “too much,” or if someone’s passion feels like a threat, this conversation will help you understand what’s really happening in your nervous system, and how to respond with grace, grounding, and discernment.
You’ll learn:
✨ What intensity actually is and why it often gets mistaken for anger
✨ How trauma shapes your body’s response to loud voices, passion, or energy
✨ How to recognize healthy intensity versus coercive control
✨ When and how to adjust your own intensity for deeper connection
✨ Practical grounding and communication tools to regulate your emotions
✨ A faith-based perspective on passion, boundaries, and emotional expression
This book is for every Christian woman who has been harmed sexually, whether that happened in childhood, adulthood, or even within your coercive controlling marriage, and you're longing to feel safe in your body again. We talk about the hard stuff, shame, desire, faith, and even questions like, is this sin or is this trauma?
You don't have to untangle it alone. Body & Soul, Healed & Whole is for you. Get a copy here today - https://a.co/d/8Jo3Z4V
🎧 Subscribe to Hey Tabi for more expert conversations on trauma, faith, and healing.
📩 Connect with Tabitha:
💻 Tabitha's Website - www.tabithawestbrook.com
📲 Tabitha's Instagram - www.instagram.com/tabithathecounselor
🎙️ Podcast Homepage - https://heytabi.buzzsprout.com
💻 The Journey & The Process Website - www.thejourneyandtheprocess.com
📲 The Journey & The Process Instagram - www.instagram.com/_tjatp
Subscribe to my YouTube Channel & watch podcast episodes there
👍 If this episode resonated with you, please like, subscribe, and share to help others who need this information!
🚨 Disclaimer: This podcast is not therapy and is intended for educational purposes only. If you're in crisis or need therapy, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional.
Need to know how to find a great therapist? Read this...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Have you ever been told you're too much?
(00:02):
Have you ever shrunk yourselfbecause someone told you that?
Well, if you answered yes, thenthis is an episode for you.
Intensity by itself is not aproblem, but misunderstanding it
absolutely could be.
Welcome to Hey Tabby, thepodcast where we talk about the
hard things out loud with ouractual lips.
We'll cover all kinds of topicsacross the mental health
(00:24):
spectrum, including how itintersects with the Christian
faith.
Nothing is off-limits here, andwe are not take two verses and
call me in the morning.
I'm Tabitha Westbrook, and I'm alicensed trauma therapist, and
I'm not your trauma therapist.
I'm an expert in domestic abuseand coercive control and how
complex trauma impacts ourhealth and well-being.
Our focus here is knowledge andhealing.
(00:45):
Trauma doesn't have to eat yourlunch forever.
There is hope.
Now, let's get going.
So, welcome to this week'sepisode of Hey Tabby.
I'm super excited that you arehere.
Today, we are diving intosomething that trips us up a lot
in relationships and can getreally confusing.
(01:08):
We're going to talk aboutintensity.
Here's the thing (01:10):
just because someone is intense, it does not
mean that they are angry.
And just because you feel a bigreaction in your body when
someone is intense doesn't meanthat you are actually unsafe.
So we're going to unpack thatdifference a bit today.
And I think it's going to helpyou breathe a little bit easier
in your conversations.
(01:32):
So let's get some definitionsand some groundwork just under
our belt here, which I think issuper important.
What do I actually mean byintensity?
And I think it's always reallypowerful and important to define
a word so that we all are on thesame page.
And this is something that wethink that if we don't do it, we
can get really tripped up.
(01:53):
So I truly believe that clear iskind.
So we're going to start with ourbasics here.
Intensity is energy.
It is passion.
It's an urgency.
It's someone leaning forward.
So I tend to lean in a lot whenI'm feeling quite intense and in
an intense conversation, butyou're leaning forward with
conviction.
You are maybe even takingsomeone's hands.
(02:15):
You might raise your voice alittle bit or get a little bit
louder because you care deeply.
Intensity, if we just kind ofdistill it down to an easier
definition, is a volume dial.
It's not a red flag necessarily.
So we can turn the volume up orturn it down based on a given
situation and how much intensitywe might need to bring to the
(02:36):
table.
And I'm going to talk about howto know when to do that a little
bit later.
Anger, on the other hand, is aspecific emotion.
Anger is triggered by loss.
It is triggered by somethingunfair.
It's a sense of injustice orthreat that we need to confront.
So we should be, as God is,angry over sin, angry over
(02:58):
oppression.
All of those things wouldtrigger the emotion of anger.
Anger isn't always loud, andanger isn't always necessarily
intense.
Now it is the most intense ofthe emotions.
I will say it comes very oftenwith the largest presentation,
but it isn't always loud and itdoesn't always seem passionate.
(03:19):
I don't know if you've ever beenaround anyone that was like
angry under the surface and theywere quiet angry, but they were
definitely angry.
Additionally, anger by itselfisn't necessarily sinful or
destructive.
Anger is just an emotion.
It is one of the ones that Godhas given us.
And so we can be angry and notsin.
(03:40):
There is a whole Bible versethat says that.
I think, particularly for women,that can be a little bit tough
because we are told we're notallowed to be angry.
In fact, we are explicitly toldthat at times.
However, it's not the angerthat's the problem.
It's what we do with the angerthat can be problematic or
potentially sinful.
(04:00):
Because anger and intensitysometimes look similar from the
outside, we can get a little bitconfused.
And again, for women, that canbe especially true.
In some circles, there arereally strong opinions on how a
woman should present herself.
And I personally have beencalled aggressive in a situation
where a man would have beencalled assertive.
(04:23):
And it was interesting becausethe term used for my
presentation in this situationwas one that alluded to me being
angry when I was not angry atall, actually.
I was just very assertive and Iwasn't going to back down from
the position that I held becauseI knew the position I held was
biblical.
So that is something that isvery interesting.
(04:44):
So when a woman presentsassertively or with a lot of
passion and intensity, thenoftentimes she can be labeled as
angry when she is not at all anyof those things.
So why do we confuse this?
Well, if you grew up in a homewhere raised voices meant danger
or your nervous system, youknow, was constantly addled by
(05:05):
that, then you don't know thedifference.
Your body might say, intensityis a threat, and I need to
figure this out and back offfrom it.
And it's just your body tryingto protect you.
Also, sometimes we just don'thave good words for things.
And if we've never seen ahealthy presentation of
intensity that did not includeanger, then we might not know
(05:25):
what we're seeing.
For survivors of coercivecontrol, intensity often was
used as a weapon.
Whether that was by the abuser,whether that was by a church
system or anyone outside, itabsolutely could be used to
dominate or to shut you down orkeep you small.
And so any intensity beingdirected in vicinity of you,
(05:45):
even if it's that towards you,might make you feel really
uncomfortable.
So of course, your body is goingto get jumpy when you feel that
familiar energy until you kindof take a look around and see
what you might need to figureout.
Now, if you're trying to stateyour case or get help or
confront an injustice and youwere called too intense, then
(06:06):
that might actually also havebeen an effort to silence you.
After all, if you're seen as theproblem, then the real problem,
abuse, coercive control, abusivesystems, doesn't have to be
addressed.
So I've been called a few thingswhen my intensity level is high
while I am fighting for asurvivor.
And I can promise you that noneof them were kind words for
(06:27):
intense or for passionate.
Like I said before, a lot oftimes women in particular get
called a lot of things thatmaybe a man wouldn't get called
in a situation like that.
Now, obviously, this is not aone-to-one where all women get
called this and all men do this.
That's not at all what I'msaying.
I'm saying I've seen itfrequently enough that I
probably need to make mention ofit.
(06:48):
And again, not all places dothis, but I've seen my fair
share that do.
So I do want to mention it.
Even our culture plays intothis.
In some families or communities,passionate expression is
celebrated.
I think of some of my Latinafriends that that would
absolutely be the case.
It is a very passionatecommunity, at least my exposure
to it certainly has been.
(07:09):
And so it's celebrated.
Passion is celebrated.
In others, it's considereddisrespectful or even scary.
And sadly, often in churches,when passion or intensity is
expressed, particularly by awoman, it can be considered
problematic.
And so goodness, no wonder wemisread it.
No wonder it's super hard todeal with and understand
(07:31):
sometimes.
So why does it matter that itcould potentially be
misinterpreted?
Well, when we assume thatintensity equals anger, then
conversations can get shut downtoo quickly.
We miss the heart behindsomebody's words.
And ultimately, both systems andrelationships suffer.
And we don't want that.
You think about being in atherapy room or in a church
(07:53):
meeting and someone is speakingpassionately about injustice,
you know, they might be, andthis is true for both men and
women, might be immediatelylabeled as angry or divisive.
But what if they are justshowing a deep conviction?
What if they are showing a deeppassion?
Now, as long as they're beingrespectful, right?
Intensity does not equaldisrespect.
You should not be disrespectful.
It's a whole different thing.
(08:14):
We should not be demeaning.
Intensity does not equaldemeaning anyone else.
We all want to treat people asimage bearers of the living God.
So when I'm saying intensity, Iam also not saying mistreatment.
I can be incredibly intense andalso very kind, very winsome,
and very gracious to otherpeople.
I will never demean anotherperson when I am intense.
(08:36):
That just doesn't work that way.
But if someone is labeled asangry or divisive when that's
not what's happening, then wecan really silence truth
tellers.
We can silence, you know, reallygood conversation and authentic
connection.
And that's not helpful.
So what does healthy intensitylook like?
(08:57):
Well, intensity can actually bea gift.
It is 100% a fuel for advocacy.
It is fuel for art andleadership and for a deep faith.
If I am passionate about God andif I hate sin the way he hates
sin and I love people the way heloves people, then I am going to
have a level of intensity thatshows up with that.
And it's going to motivate meand energize me to follow and do
(09:21):
things that are helpful,hopefully, to the entire kingdom
of God, right?
That's the goal.
Jesus and the apostles alsoexhibited intensity.
So the Old Testament prophetessDeborah also comes to mind.
She was intense.
She's like, look, if you're notgonna go, then you know, then
I'm gonna go with you.
And then they'll say the victorywas won by a woman.
It's like, okay, cool, you know?
(09:42):
And so she exhibited a level ofintensity.
I would say that Mary Magdalene,when she saw that Jesus had been
raised from the dead, she had alevel of intensity with her.
And she was like, No, dude,seriously, this happened.
Like, oh my gosh, I saw him inthe garden.
Like there was a level ofintensity there.
I would also think that Paul wasperceived as quite intense when
(10:03):
he said in one of the epistles,like, y'all think I'm coming in
a mild-mannered way, and thatI'm just gonna get there weak
and that my letters are the onlything that are strong.
But if y'all don't get ittogether, I'm coming just like
this.
And I think that it communicateda level of intensity as well.
Intensity can be a holy spark.
So instead of just shuttingdown, what if we actually
(10:25):
learned to listen differently?
What if we also, if we are amore intense person or we are
bringing a little more intensityto the table, we know exactly
how to moderate that.
So let's talk about that now.
What level of intensity do webring to the table?
Well, I'm gonna give you thetherapist answer.
It depends.
It depends.
(10:46):
So, how do we know is going tobe really driven by the
situation itself?
So think of it like a dimmerswitch, not an on-off button.
We've talked about it being avolume button, right?
So if you think about it interms of the old like term
volume buttons, right?
Like you turn it up or you turnit down.
So we want to know how to dothat a bit.
(11:07):
First, we're gonna check thesetting, right?
Where are we in this moment?
A courtroom, a therapy office, aboardroom.
You may still bring intensity,but how it plays out might look
a little bit different.
It might be a little bit more ofa calm presentation.
You might intentionally slowyour speech or slow other things
down at a rally, a worshipservice, or even a personal
(11:28):
testimony moment, that mightinvite more energy.
So how I'm going to present whenI go to court with a victim
versus how I might present whenI am teaching a topic are going
to be two different things.
Now, there is a level ofintensity that I'm going to
bring when I have to walk into achurch.
But again, it's going to beappropriate to the situation at
hand.
So I am going to, for lack of abetter word, read the room.
(11:52):
I want to be heard and I want mypoint to be taken.
Now, that does not mean that Iam going to be any less powerful
in my presentation.
The volume at which I am turnedup to is going to be what shifts
and changes.
It also is going to depend onthe relationship.
Again, some people feel safewith a higher volume of
expression and some don't.
(12:13):
I'm going to ask myself, is thisgoing to help me be heard or is
it going to shut somebody down?
Now, there are times when thereis still a risk of it shutting
someone down and I need to beheard and the dial does need to
go up.
But I'm going to be very mindfulof the person in front of me,
who's the relationship, what isgoing to be helpful here, and
that kind of thing is stuff I'mgoing to really consider.
(12:34):
Notice your own body.
So if you're leaning in withpassion and your body is
grounded and your breathing issteady, you feel planted, you
feel rooted, you feel centered,you're probably fine.
You're probably in a healthylevel of intensity, even if the
other party does not like it.
If you feel tight, your fistsare clenched, your jaws locked,
then you might be sliding intoanger.
(12:55):
And also you might be goingoutside your own window of
tolerance.
So just in case you haven'theard that term before, our
window of tolerance is what wecan handle and stay pretty
regulated.
So if we think about it like awindow, then we can do all kinds
of things.
And we go outside that window,then we have a much more
(13:16):
difficult time regulating ourown emotions.
So we want to stay within ourwindow of tolerance.
And if I notice that my body isshowing me signs that I am
headed outside my window oftolerance, then I need to dial
back because I'm headed in adirection ultimately that is not
going to be helpful.
And honor your values.
Ask yourself (13:35):
is the intensity that I am bringing to this
situation aligned with truth andtelling the truth in love,
speaking the truth in love?
Or is it spilling out in fearand frustration?
And this is where if I have togo into a situation to confront
something, I am 100% going tocheck in with myself.
I am going to decide, is thereany work I personally need to do
(13:59):
before I can confront this orwalk into this space?
And if there is, then I need todo that work first before I go
in.
So again, I can stay within myvalues and within my window of
tolerance.
I am not ever going into a placeto not honor the Lord and not
honor the image bearers that arein front of me.
(14:21):
So I am very intentional andvery careful with all of these
things.
And I think that that is areally important piece.
Am I going to come in with theintensity?
Without question.
But I am going to do it in a waythat is God honoring.
Intensity is the most effectivewhen it matches the moment to
the best of our ability.
If we have too little, we mightnot get hurt.
If we have too much, we stillmight not get hurt and our
(14:43):
message gets lost in thedelivery.
I can tell you that thesurvivors that have worked for
me absolutely know that I willwalk into the gates of hell to
help them without question andwithout batting an eyelash.
I'm happy to do it.
But sometimes that does mean Iam bringing the full weight of
my training, my education, myexperience, and my personality
(15:04):
to the table.
It doesn't mean that I'm angry,but it does, however, mean that
I fully intend to be heard andbe taken seriously.
And again, how loud my volume ison the intensity is going to be
dictated by the situation, therelationships, and my own body
and whether or not I'm within mywindow of tolerance.
(15:24):
All right, so let's get a littlebit practical here.
If you are the intense person,10 out of 10, totally me.
Start with your body.
Notice your breathing, yourposture, and your tone.
First and foremost, do a littlebit of grounding.
We have a whole episode here onHey Tabby of grounding
exercises.
I will link to that in the shownotes in case you missed it.
(15:46):
But take some time to take careof you first before you enter
into something else.
Use clarifying language if youneed to.
If this is a person you have notdealt with before or group that
you've not dealt with before,hey, I just want you to know
that I'm not angry.
I'm just really passionate aboutthis topic.
You can absolutely let folksknow where you are coming from.
(16:06):
And again, the way that we treatsomeone is as an image bearer of
the living God.
Even if we are frustrated bytheir positioning on something
or something like that, we stilltreat them as an image bearer
because they are.
If you're on the receiving endof intensity, pause before
making an assumption.
Ask, hey, are you angry rightnow or are you invested in this?
(16:29):
Again, clear is so kind.
When we are clear about what weare trying to understand and we
ask really good questions,conversations tend to go better.
Whenever possible, do givesomebody the benefit of the
doubt both ways.
It can be tough, especially ifwe're getting triggered, but I
would encourage it reallystrongly.
Check your own body's reaction.
(16:50):
Are you triggered because ofpast experiences, or is there an
actual threat?
You really do want to getcurious about things.
I think taking a curiousperspective is one of the best
things that we can do overallfor our own bodies for other
people.
When we are curious first, thenthat gives us more data to make
a stronger decision.
(17:10):
And remember, intensity is data,not necessarily danger, right?
We really want to be mindful ofthat.
I do want to acknowledgesomething important here.
If you have been through trauma,intensity can in fact feel
unsafe.
I know that I already said that.
And I want to just let you knowthat that's okay.
You're allowed to set boundariesaround intensity in
(17:32):
relationships.
But I also would encourage youto lean in and become a little
more comfortable with safeintensity.
I think that will serve youwell.
It'll also expand your window oftolerance over time.
Coercive control uses intensityto dominate, but healthy
intensity does not do that ever.
So if you're wondering which iswhich, there's your ticket right
(17:54):
there.
Healthy intensity is alwaysgoing to seek connection, truth,
or expression.
It is never going to try to takeyour personhood.
Coercive control takes yourpersonhood.
Healthy intensity just wants totell you what's going on,
essentially.
And you will see that in how youare treated again.
If we are treating each other asimage bearers of the living God,
(18:15):
then we are always wantingconnection.
We are always trying to come inwith the best of intentions.
It doesn't mean we'll do itperfectly, of course, but we're
certainly going to try our best.
When you know the differencebetween intensity and anger and
healthy intensity and unhealthyintensity, then you can really
start to choose differently andenter into places differently
(18:36):
and find things that are morelife-giving for you.
So here's our takeaway intensitydoes not always equal anger.
It can.
And sometimes people who areangry are also intense, and
sometimes it doesn't.
So getting more data and beingcurious can be really helpful.
When we misinterpret it, it canrob us of connection.
(18:57):
But when we learn to notice thedifference and learn how to use
intensity wisely, know when toturn our volume up and when to
turn our volume down, it canopen the door to deeper healing
and healthier relationships.
And I know if that's not beenyour experience yet, you might
think, are you sure?
Are you sure?
But I promise you that ittotally can.
So if you want to dive a littlebit deeper into this, I have got
(19:20):
some journaling prompts for youthat can help you just process
through this a little bit moredeeply.
We'll put them in the shownotes, but I'm going to read
them for you here now as well.
So think of a recent moment whensomeone was intense with you and
you had that intensity directedtoward you.
How did you interpret it?
As you look back on it today,was it anger?
Was it passion?
(19:40):
Was it something else?
Just be curious.
And if you don't know, that'sokay too.
Just kind of be curious aboutit.
When you hear a raised voice orsee big gestures, what happens
in your body?
Where do you feel it?
What shape would you give it?
What color?
Really be curious about that.
How do you show up when you arepassionate?
(20:02):
Do you shrink yourself out offear of being misunderstood?
Do you come in like a wreckingball?
Where do you moderate yourvolume?
How do you know?
Reflect on scripture.
What do Jesus' moments ofintensity teach you about
passion versus destructiveanger?
What can we learn from ourSavior?
Which is always one of myfavorite questions.
(20:24):
Like, I want to look like Jesus.
So I'm going to go look at whathe did.
So do that.
What clues, what evidence inyour world helps you know when
to turn up the volume, turn upyour intensity, or when to turn
it down and when to step away.
Really give yourself some ofthat.
And if you've never reallychecked in and you don't know,
(20:44):
this is a great opportunity toget curious and do a little work
around this so you know when toturn up and down your volume.
And I want to give you a glimmerprompt for this week.
I do love a good glimmer.
Glimmers are the opposite oftriggers.
They are the good things that wesee.
And a lot of times as survivorsof various traumas, we tend to
focus on the hard or thenegative.
(21:06):
And I want to invite you tointentionally focus on that
which is good.
We could say that it aligns withthe scripture of setting your
mind on things above.
Again, that doesn't mean weignore the hard, but we
definitely intentionally focuson good.
So write down two moments whereyou noticed that your passion or
intensity was life-giving ratherthan threatening.
(21:30):
So just give yourself a momentif you're like, I don't know,
then be curious, see what youcan find.
I want to thank you so much forbeing here with me on this
week's episode of Hey Patty.
I am so grateful that you arewilling to have these
conversations with me.
And remember, your intensity orsomeone else's intensity doesn't
have to feel like a threat.
It doesn't have to be a threat.
(21:51):
It does not have to be perceivedthat way.
Sometimes it is just the passionof our heart speaking more
loudly.
If you found this episodehelpful, please share it with a
friend who might need to hearit.
Please be sure to follow orsubscribe to Hey Tabby so you
don't miss an episode.
And please go take the time toread it on your favorite podcast
platform.
This does really help peoplefind it and helps us get more
(22:15):
good information out there topeople who need it.
I'm so glad that you were herewith me this week, and I can't
wait to see you again next time.
Thanks for joining me fortoday's episode of Hey Tabby.
If you're looking for a resourcethat I mentioned in the show and
you want to check out the shownotes, head on over to
tabithawestbrook.com forwardslash hey tabby.
(22:36):
That's H-E-Y-T-A-C-I, and youcan grab it there.
Look forward to seeing you nexttime.
Have you ever been told you're too much?
(00:02):
Have you ever shrunk yourselfbecause someone told you that?
Well, if you answered yes, thenthis is an episode for you.
Intensity by itself is not aproblem, but misunderstanding it
absolutely could be.
Welcome to Hey Tabby, thepodcast where we talk about the
hard things out loud with ouractual lips.
We'll cover all kinds of topicsacross the mental health
(00:24):
spectrum, including how itintersects with the Christian
faith.
Nothing is off-limits here, andwe are not take two verses and
call me in the morning.
I'm Tabitha Westbrook, and I'm alicensed trauma therapist, and
I'm not your trauma therapist.
I'm an expert in domestic abuseand coercive control and how
complex trauma impacts ourhealth and well-being.
Our focus here is knowledge andhealing.
(00:45):
Trauma doesn't have to eat yourlunch forever.
There is hope.
Now, let's get going.
So, welcome to this week'sepisode of Hey Tabby.
I'm super excited that you arehere.
Today, we are diving intosomething that trips us up a lot
in relationships and can getreally confusing.
(01:08):
We're going to talk aboutintensity.
Here's the thing (01:10):
just because someone is intense, it does not
mean that they are angry.
And just because you feel a bigreaction in your body when
someone is intense doesn't meanthat you are actually unsafe.
So we're going to unpack thatdifference a bit today.
And I think it's going to helpyou breathe a little bit easier
in your conversations.
(01:32):
So let's get some definitionsand some groundwork just under
our belt here, which I think issuper important.
What do I actually mean byintensity?
And I think it's always reallypowerful and important to define
a word so that we all are on thesame page.
And this is something that wethink that if we don't do it, we
can get really tripped up.
(01:53):
So I truly believe that clear iskind.
So we're going to start with ourbasics here.
Intensity is energy.
It is passion.
It's an urgency.
It's someone leaning forward.
So I tend to lean in a lot whenI'm feeling quite intense and in
an intense conversation, butyou're leaning forward with
conviction.
You are maybe even takingsomeone's hands.
(02:15):
You might raise your voice alittle bit or get a little bit
louder because you care deeply.
Intensity, if we just kind ofdistill it down to an easier
definition, is a volume dial.
It's not a red flag necessarily.
So we can turn the volume up orturn it down based on a given
situation and how much intensitywe might need to bring to the
(02:36):
table.
And I'm going to talk about howto know when to do that a little
bit later.
Anger, on the other hand, is aspecific emotion.
Anger is triggered by loss.
It is triggered by somethingunfair.
It's a sense of injustice orthreat that we need to confront.
So we should be, as God is,angry over sin, angry over
(02:58):
oppression.
All of those things wouldtrigger the emotion of anger.
Anger isn't always loud, andanger isn't always necessarily
intense.
Now it is the most intense ofthe emotions.
I will say it comes very oftenwith the largest presentation,
but it isn't always loud and itdoesn't always seem passionate.
(03:19):
I don't know if you've ever beenaround anyone that was like
angry under the surface and theywere quiet angry, but they were
definitely angry.
Additionally, anger by itselfisn't necessarily sinful or
destructive.
Anger is just an emotion.
It is one of the ones that Godhas given us.
And so we can be angry and notsin.
(03:40):
There is a whole Bible versethat says that.
I think, particularly for women,that can be a little bit tough
because we are told we're notallowed to be angry.
In fact, we are explicitly toldthat at times.
However, it's not the angerthat's the problem.
It's what we do with the angerthat can be problematic or
potentially sinful.
(04:00):
Because anger and intensitysometimes look similar from the
outside, we can get a little bitconfused.
And again, for women, that canbe especially true.
In some circles, there arereally strong opinions on how a
woman should present herself.
And I personally have beencalled aggressive in a situation
where a man would have beencalled assertive.
(04:23):
And it was interesting becausethe term used for my
presentation in this situationwas one that alluded to me being
angry when I was not angry atall, actually.
I was just very assertive and Iwasn't going to back down from
the position that I held becauseI knew the position I held was
biblical.
So that is something that isvery interesting.
(04:44):
So when a woman presentsassertively or with a lot of
passion and intensity, thenoftentimes she can be labeled as
angry when she is not at all anyof those things.
So why do we confuse this?
Well, if you grew up in a homewhere raised voices meant danger
or your nervous system, youknow, was constantly addled by
(05:05):
that, then you don't know thedifference.
Your body might say, intensityis a threat, and I need to
figure this out and back offfrom it.
And it's just your body tryingto protect you.
Also, sometimes we just don'thave good words for things.
And if we've never seen ahealthy presentation of
intensity that did not includeanger, then we might not know
(05:25):
what we're seeing.
For survivors of coercivecontrol, intensity often was
used as a weapon.
Whether that was by the abuser,whether that was by a church
system or anyone outside, itabsolutely could be used to
dominate or to shut you down orkeep you small.
And so any intensity beingdirected in vicinity of you,
(05:45):
even if it's that towards you,might make you feel really
uncomfortable.
So of course, your body is goingto get jumpy when you feel that
familiar energy until you kindof take a look around and see
what you might need to figureout.
Now, if you're trying to stateyour case or get help or
confront an injustice and youwere called too intense, then
(06:06):
that might actually also havebeen an effort to silence you.
After all, if you're seen as theproblem, then the real problem,
abuse, coercive control, abusivesystems, doesn't have to be
addressed.
So I've been called a few thingswhen my intensity level is high
while I am fighting for asurvivor.
And I can promise you that noneof them were kind words for
(06:27):
intense or for passionate.
Like I said before, a lot oftimes women in particular get
called a lot of things thatmaybe a man wouldn't get called
in a situation like that.
Now, obviously, this is not aone-to-one where all women get
called this and all men do this.
That's not at all what I'msaying.
I'm saying I've seen itfrequently enough that I
probably need to make mention ofit.
(06:48):
And again, not all places dothis, but I've seen my fair
share that do.
So I do want to mention it.
Even our culture plays intothis.
In some families or communities,passionate expression is
celebrated.
I think of some of my Latinafriends that that would
absolutely be the case.
It is a very passionatecommunity, at least my exposure
to it certainly has been.
(07:09):
And so it's celebrated.
Passion is celebrated.
In others, it's considereddisrespectful or even scary.
And sadly, often in churches,when passion or intensity is
expressed, particularly by awoman, it can be considered
problematic.
And so goodness, no wonder wemisread it.
No wonder it's super hard todeal with and understand
(07:31):
sometimes.
So why does it matter that itcould potentially be
misinterpreted?
Well, when we assume thatintensity equals anger, then
conversations can get shut downtoo quickly.
We miss the heart behindsomebody's words.
And ultimately, both systems andrelationships suffer.
And we don't want that.
You think about being in atherapy room or in a church
(07:53):
meeting and someone is speakingpassionately about injustice,
you know, they might be, andthis is true for both men and
women, might be immediatelylabeled as angry or divisive.
But what if they are justshowing a deep conviction?
What if they are showing a deeppassion?
Now, as long as they're beingrespectful, right?
Intensity does not equaldisrespect.
You should not be disrespectful.
It's a whole different thing.
(08:14):
We should not be demeaning.
Intensity does not equaldemeaning anyone else.
We all want to treat people asimage bearers of the living God.
So when I'm saying intensity, Iam also not saying mistreatment.
I can be incredibly intense andalso very kind, very winsome,
and very gracious to otherpeople.
I will never demean anotherperson when I am intense.
(08:36):
That just doesn't work that way.
But if someone is labeled asangry or divisive when that's
not what's happening, then wecan really silence truth
tellers.
We can silence, you know, reallygood conversation and authentic
connection.
And that's not helpful.
So what does healthy intensitylook like?
(08:57):
Well, intensity can actually bea gift.
It is 100% a fuel for advocacy.
It is fuel for art andleadership and for a deep faith.
If I am passionate about God andif I hate sin the way he hates
sin and I love people the way heloves people, then I am going to
have a level of intensity thatshows up with that.
And it's going to motivate meand energize me to follow and do
(09:21):
things that are helpful,hopefully, to the entire kingdom
of God, right?
That's the goal.
Jesus and the apostles alsoexhibited intensity.
So the Old Testament prophetessDeborah also comes to mind.
She was intense.
She's like, look, if you're notgonna go, then you know, then
I'm gonna go with you.
And then they'll say the victorywas won by a woman.
It's like, okay, cool, you know?
(09:42):
And so she exhibited a level ofintensity.
I would say that Mary Magdalene,when she saw that Jesus had been
raised from the dead, she had alevel of intensity with her.
And she was like, No, dude,seriously, this happened.
Like, oh my gosh, I saw him inthe garden.
Like there was a level ofintensity there.
I would also think that Paul wasperceived as quite intense when
(10:03):
he said in one of the epistles,like, y'all think I'm coming in
a mild-mannered way, and thatI'm just gonna get there weak
and that my letters are the onlything that are strong.
But if y'all don't get ittogether, I'm coming just like
this.
And I think that it communicateda level of intensity as well.
Intensity can be a holy spark.
So instead of just shuttingdown, what if we actually
(10:25):
learned to listen differently?
What if we also, if we are amore intense person or we are
bringing a little more intensityto the table, we know exactly
how to moderate that.
So let's talk about that now.
What level of intensity do webring to the table?
Well, I'm gonna give you thetherapist answer.
It depends.
It depends.
(10:46):
So, how do we know is going tobe really driven by the
situation itself?
So think of it like a dimmerswitch, not an on-off button.
We've talked about it being avolume button, right?
So if you think about it interms of the old like term
volume buttons, right?
Like you turn it up or you turnit down.
So we want to know how to dothat a bit.
(11:07):
First, we're gonna check thesetting, right?
Where are we in this moment?
A courtroom, a therapy office, aboardroom.
You may still bring intensity,but how it plays out might look
a little bit different.
It might be a little bit more ofa calm presentation.
You might intentionally slowyour speech or slow other things
down at a rally, a worshipservice, or even a personal
(11:28):
testimony moment, that mightinvite more energy.
So how I'm going to present whenI go to court with a victim
versus how I might present whenI am teaching a topic are going
to be two different things.
Now, there is a level ofintensity that I'm going to
bring when I have to walk into achurch.
But again, it's going to beappropriate to the situation at
hand.
So I am going to, for lack of abetter word, read the room.
(11:52):
I want to be heard and I want mypoint to be taken.
Now, that does not mean that Iam going to be any less powerful
in my presentation.
The volume at which I am turnedup to is going to be what shifts
and changes.
It also is going to depend onthe relationship.
Again, some people feel safewith a higher volume of
expression and some don't.
(12:13):
I'm going to ask myself, is thisgoing to help me be heard or is
it going to shut somebody down?
Now, there are times when thereis still a risk of it shutting
someone down and I need to beheard and the dial does need to
go up.
But I'm going to be very mindfulof the person in front of me,
who's the relationship, what isgoing to be helpful here, and
that kind of thing is stuff I'mgoing to really consider.
(12:34):
Notice your own body.
So if you're leaning in withpassion and your body is
grounded and your breathing issteady, you feel planted, you
feel rooted, you feel centered,you're probably fine.
You're probably in a healthylevel of intensity, even if the
other party does not like it.
If you feel tight, your fistsare clenched, your jaws locked,
then you might be sliding intoanger.
(12:55):
And also you might be goingoutside your own window of
tolerance.
So just in case you haven'theard that term before, our
window of tolerance is what wecan handle and stay pretty
regulated.
So if we think about it like awindow, then we can do all kinds
of things.
And we go outside that window,then we have a much more
(13:16):
difficult time regulating ourown emotions.
So we want to stay within ourwindow of tolerance.
And if I notice that my body isshowing me signs that I am
headed outside my window oftolerance, then I need to dial
back because I'm headed in adirection ultimately that is not
going to be helpful.
And honor your values.
Ask yourself (13:35):
is the intensity that I am bringing to this
situation aligned with truth andtelling the truth in love,
speaking the truth in love?
Or is it spilling out in fearand frustration?
And this is where if I have togo into a situation to confront
something, I am 100% going tocheck in with myself.
I am going to decide, is thereany work I personally need to do
(13:59):
before I can confront this orwalk into this space?
And if there is, then I need todo that work first before I go
in.
So again, I can stay within myvalues and within my window of
tolerance.
I am not ever going into a placeto not honor the Lord and not
honor the image bearers that arein front of me.
(14:21):
So I am very intentional andvery careful with all of these
things.
And I think that that is areally important piece.
Am I going to come in with theintensity?
Without question.
But I am going to do it in a waythat is God honoring.
Intensity is the most effectivewhen it matches the moment to
the best of our ability.
If we have too little, we mightnot get hurt.
If we have too much, we stillmight not get hurt and our
(14:43):
message gets lost in thedelivery.
I can tell you that thesurvivors that have worked for
me absolutely know that I willwalk into the gates of hell to
help them without question andwithout batting an eyelash.
I'm happy to do it.
But sometimes that does mean Iam bringing the full weight of
my training, my education, myexperience, and my personality
(15:04):
to the table.
It doesn't mean that I'm angry,but it does, however, mean that
I fully intend to be heard andbe taken seriously.
And again, how loud my volume ison the intensity is going to be
dictated by the situation, therelationships, and my own body
and whether or not I'm within mywindow of tolerance.
(15:24):
All right, so let's get a littlebit practical here.
If you are the intense person,10 out of 10, totally me.
Start with your body.
Notice your breathing, yourposture, and your tone.
First and foremost, do a littlebit of grounding.
We have a whole episode here onHey Tabby of grounding
exercises.
I will link to that in the shownotes in case you missed it.
(15:46):
But take some time to take careof you first before you enter
into something else.
Use clarifying language if youneed to.
If this is a person you have notdealt with before or group that
you've not dealt with before,hey, I just want you to know
that I'm not angry.
I'm just really passionate aboutthis topic.
You can absolutely let folksknow where you are coming from.
(16:06):
And again, the way that we treatsomeone is as an image bearer of
the living God.
Even if we are frustrated bytheir positioning on something
or something like that, we stilltreat them as an image bearer
because they are.
If you're on the receiving endof intensity, pause before
making an assumption.
Ask, hey, are you angry rightnow or are you invested in this?
(16:29):
Again, clear is so kind.
When we are clear about what weare trying to understand and we
ask really good questions,conversations tend to go better.
Whenever possible, do givesomebody the benefit of the
doubt both ways.
It can be tough, especially ifwe're getting triggered, but I
would encourage it reallystrongly.
Check your own body's reaction.
(16:50):
Are you triggered because ofpast experiences, or is there an
actual threat?
You really do want to getcurious about things.
I think taking a curiousperspective is one of the best
things that we can do overallfor our own bodies for other
people.
When we are curious first, thenthat gives us more data to make
a stronger decision.
(17:10):
And remember, intensity is data,not necessarily danger, right?
We really want to be mindful ofthat.
I do want to acknowledgesomething important here.
If you have been through trauma,intensity can in fact feel
unsafe.
I know that I already said that.
And I want to just let you knowthat that's okay.
You're allowed to set boundariesaround intensity in
(17:32):
relationships.
But I also would encourage youto lean in and become a little
more comfortable with safeintensity.
I think that will serve youwell.
It'll also expand your window oftolerance over time.
Coercive control uses intensityto dominate, but healthy
intensity does not do that ever.
So if you're wondering which iswhich, there's your ticket right
(17:54):
there.
Healthy intensity is alwaysgoing to seek connection, truth,
or expression.
It is never going to try to takeyour personhood.
Coercive control takes yourpersonhood.
Healthy intensity just wants totell you what's going on,
essentially.
And you will see that in how youare treated again.
If we are treating each other asimage bearers of the living God,
(18:15):
then we are always wantingconnection.
We are always trying to come inwith the best of intentions.
It doesn't mean we'll do itperfectly, of course, but we're
certainly going to try our best.
When you know the differencebetween intensity and anger and
healthy intensity and unhealthyintensity, then you can really
start to choose differently andenter into places differently
(18:36):
and find things that are morelife-giving for you.
So here's our takeaway intensitydoes not always equal anger.
It can.
And sometimes people who areangry are also intense, and
sometimes it doesn't.
So getting more data and beingcurious can be really helpful.
When we misinterpret it, it canrob us of connection.
(18:57):
But when we learn to notice thedifference and learn how to use
intensity wisely, know when toturn our volume up and when to
turn our volume down, it canopen the door to deeper healing
and healthier relationships.
And I know if that's not beenyour experience yet, you might
think, are you sure?
Are you sure?
But I promise you that ittotally can.
So if you want to dive a littlebit deeper into this, I have got
(19:20):
some journaling prompts for youthat can help you just process
through this a little bit moredeeply.
We'll put them in the shownotes, but I'm going to read
them for you here now as well.
So think of a recent moment whensomeone was intense with you and
you had that intensity directedtoward you.
How did you interpret it?
As you look back on it today,was it anger?
Was it passion?
(19:40):
Was it something else?
Just be curious.
And if you don't know, that'sokay too.
Just kind of be curious aboutit.
When you hear a raised voice orsee big gestures, what happens
in your body?
Where do you feel it?
What shape would you give it?
What color?
Really be curious about that.
How do you show up when you arepassionate?
(20:02):
Do you shrink yourself out offear of being misunderstood?
Do you come in like a wreckingball?
Where do you moderate yourvolume?
How do you know?
Reflect on scripture.
What do Jesus' moments ofintensity teach you about
passion versus destructiveanger?
What can we learn from ourSavior?
Which is always one of myfavorite questions.
(20:24):
Like, I want to look like Jesus.
So I'm going to go look at whathe did.
So do that.
What clues, what evidence inyour world helps you know when
to turn up the volume, turn upyour intensity, or when to turn
it down and when to step away.
Really give yourself some ofthat.
And if you've never reallychecked in and you don't know,
(20:44):
this is a great opportunity toget curious and do a little work
around this so you know when toturn up and down your volume.
And I want to give you a glimmerprompt for this week.
I do love a good glimmer.
Glimmers are the opposite oftriggers.
They are the good things that wesee.
And a lot of times as survivorsof various traumas, we tend to
focus on the hard or thenegative.
(21:06):
And I want to invite you tointentionally focus on that
which is good.
We could say that it aligns withthe scripture of setting your
mind on things above.
Again, that doesn't mean weignore the hard, but we
definitely intentionally focuson good.
So write down two moments whereyou noticed that your passion or
intensity was life-giving ratherthan threatening.
(21:30):
So just give yourself a momentif you're like, I don't know,
then be curious, see what youcan find.
I want to thank you so much forbeing here with me on this
week's episode of Hey Patty.
I am so grateful that you arewilling to have these
conversations with me.
And remember, your intensity orsomeone else's intensity doesn't
have to feel like a threat.
It doesn't have to be a threat.
(21:51):
It does not have to be perceivedthat way.
Sometimes it is just the passionof our heart speaking more
loudly.
If you found this episodehelpful, please share it with a
friend who might need to hearit.
Please be sure to follow orsubscribe to Hey Tabby so you
don't miss an episode.
And please go take the time toread it on your favorite podcast
platform.
This does really help peoplefind it and helps us get more
(22:15):
good information out there topeople who need it.
I'm so glad that you were herewith me this week, and I can't
wait to see you again next time.
Thanks for joining me fortoday's episode of Hey Tabby.
If you're looking for a resourcethat I mentioned in the show and
you want to check out the shownotes, head on over to
tabithawestbrook.com forwardslash hey tabby.
(22:36):
That's H-E-Y-T-A-C-I, and youcan grab it there.
Look forward to seeing you nexttime.
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