September 22, 2025 • 33 mins
Christian perspectives on physical intimacy often lack clarity, leaving many couples confused about what honors God in the bedroom - especially if one or both partners are survivors of harm. True intimacy begins with friendship and mutual respect, creating space for honest communication about desires, boundaries, and healing.
In this episode we explore:
- What's permissible
- How technology has changed how we approach intimacy
- Sexual abuse survivors needs
- The full spectrum of intimacy not just intercourse
- Arousal templates
- Consent
- What healthy intimacy entails
Resources Mentioned:
The Marriage You Want - by Sheila & Keith Gregoire - https://amzn.to/46ug2cH
Body & Soul, Healed & Whole - by Tabitha Westbrook - https://amzn.to/4pA4s8I
Gottman Sound Relationship House - https://www.gottman.com/blog/what-is-the-sound-relationship-house/
At The Journey and The Process we strive to help you heal. Our therapists are trauma specialists who use evidence-based tools like EMDR, Brainspotting, Somatic Experiencing, and Internal Family Systems to help you heal - mind, soul, and body. Reach out today to start your healing journey. https://thejourneyandtheprocess.com/
This book is for every Christian woman who has been harmed sexually, whether that happened in childhood, adulthood, or even within your coercive controlling marriage, and you're longing to feel safe in your body again. We talk about the hard stuff, shame, desire, faith, and even questions like, is this sin or is this trauma?
You don't have to untangle it alone. Body & Soul, Healed & Whole is for you. Get a copy here today - https://a.co/d/8Jo3Z4V
🎧 Subscribe to Hey Tabi for more expert conversations on trauma, faith, and healing.
📩 Connect with Tabitha:
💻 Tabitha's Website - www.tabithawestbrook.com
📲 Tabitha's Instagram - www.instagram.com/tabithathecounselor
🎙️ Podcast Homepage - https://heytabi.buzzsprout.com
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👍 If this episode resonated with you, please like, subscribe, and share to help others who need this information!
🚨 Disclaimer: This podcast is not therapy and is intended for educational purposes only. If you're in crisis or need therapy, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional.
Need to know how to find a great therapist? Read this...
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
When it comes to what a Christian can do in the
bedroom, what is allowed?
This is a question that I getasked all the time, and this is
what we are going to talk abouttoday on hey Tabby.
Welcome to hey Tabby, thepodcast where we talk about the
hard things out loud, with ouractual lips.
We'll cover all kinds of topicsacross the mental health
(00:22):
spectrum, including how itintersects with the Christian
faith.
Nothing is off limits here andwe are not.
Take two verses and call me inthe morning.
I'm Tabitha Westbrook and I'm alicensed trauma therapist, but
I'm not your trauma therapist.
I'm an expert in domestic abuseand coercive control and how
complex trauma impacts ourhealth and well-being.
Our focus here is knowledge andhealing.
(00:43):
Trauma doesn't have to eat yourlunch forever.
There is hope.
Now let's get going.
Welcome to this week's heyTabby.
I am so glad that you are here.
I am excited and, I guess, alittle bit nervous to talk about
this today.
We get this question reallyoften in the practice and I get
it very often since the releaseof Body and Soul, healed and
(01:06):
Whole, and I wanted to take aminute and answer it on the
podcast because it really issomething a lot of people are
curious about.
Many men and women reallyhonestly want to honor God
through their physical intimacyin their relationship, but they
don't always know what's okay,and I will say that the way the
church has languaged so much hasnot been helpful.
(01:28):
It has really caused confusionand at some points, I believe,
goes into licentiousness in waysthat I cannot be okay with.
I'll say it goes intolicentiousness for one
particular gender and it goesinto submission and slavery for
the other.
(01:49):
Very often Not always, but Ihear it more often than I would
like.
So we're going to talk aboutwhat is okay in the bedroom for
a Christian, and I am just goingto start off with my therapist
answer of all time.
It depends, and I know thatthat is probably literally the
most frustrating way that Icould start this for so many of
(02:12):
us, but I really want to let youknow that this isn't like hard
and fast rules on things.
This is something that you willneed to wrestle with for
yourself and your relationships.
With the change of technology,we've also seen intimacy change.
First, we have seen a massiveuptick in pornography use, for
both men and women.
(02:34):
We have seen quite the rise inerotic fiction, for women in
particular, and all kinds ofpornographic material available
very, very easily, no matterwhat platform you are using.
So no longer do you have to goto the back of a store and
purchase something or go to aspecialized store.
I was actually walking aroundWalgreens the other day and in
(02:56):
the family planning aisle foundvibrators, which was quite
shocking to me.
I did not expect that and Idon't have a problem with
vibrators.
We'll talk about that here in aminute as well but it was
really surprising to see it inWalgreens, in the family
planning aisle.
It was really shocking.
I was like, oh, I did not knowthey sold those.
They also sold other things forinsertion purposes.
(03:17):
I'm not entirely sure I can saythat word in a podcast.
I don't have a problem sayingit out loud, but we will call it
an insertion toy for women.
And it was also surprising tosee that in the Walgreens aisle.
And it means in some ways thattalking about physical intimacy
(03:39):
and intercourse and that kind ofthing is becoming more
commonplace and it's also asymbol of.
We don't quite know what to dowith it.
Because of technology, becauseof more readily accessible items
and information, a lot ofChristians are really finding
themselves not sure where to puttheir feet.
In particular, survivors ofabuse, particularly sexual abuse
(04:02):
, are having a very hard timeknowing what is okay.
Oftentimes they have been takenadvantage of, they have been
forced into things that they didnot consent to and all kinds of
different really wicked andvile things.
I know women who have beentrafficked.
I know women who have beenforced to create pornography
against their will.
I know women who were secretlyfilmed and then those videos
(04:22):
sold, and those are things thatno one should endure.
Quite frankly, they're wicked,they're wrong and it is awful.
But then, when you arebeginning to recover and enter
back into relationship andperhaps remarry, then what
happens then?
What do we do then?
(04:43):
So I want to remind everybody,or tell you for the first time
if this is the first time thatyou're hearing it that we have
what is called an arousaltemplate, and we have arousal
templates for all kinds ofthings.
Arousal does not only mean sex.
It can, but it's not the onlything it can mean.
Arousal is really just any formof excitation.
(05:04):
We have to have things getaroused to get out of bed.
If I don't have some cortisolrelease and I don't have some
energy in my system, I'm notgoing to get up out of bed.
And that is arousal at its verymost biologic sense.
Arousal templates, when we talkabout physical intimacy, are
the things that come together,the constellation of things that
come together, that turn us on,and it is formed in any number
(05:30):
of ways.
It is formed through ourupbringing, through our faith,
through the things that we areexposed to and, sadly, also
through our harm, and you canread more about the arousal
template in Body and Soul,healed and Whole.
But suffice it to say it's areally important part of
figuring out what's okay andwhat's not okay for us.
The first place I encouragepeople to put their feet is what
(05:52):
are your values, what is okaywith you, and you might not know
again if you've experiencedharm.
You might not know that thereis a touch that you don't like
or that your body does notwelcome.
And this is where I would saygo slow, go really slow, because
there's no hurry, there's norush, even though sometimes I
(06:13):
think society and even thechurch makes us feel that way.
But we need to understand thatso many men and women carry
shame and fear around theirsexuality.
The statistic is that one insix men and I've heard more
recently, one in four men and Ineed to double check that and
(06:33):
one in two women or one in fourwomen again I need to double
check my statistics have beensexually abused or assaulted in
their lifetime.
That is stunningly high.
That means, really, honestly,most people have had some sort
of awful experience and even ifyou didn't fully recognize it as
awful at the time, your bodyknew.
Your body keeps the score, ittells the story, and so you may
(06:56):
be ready to engage in somephysical intimacy with your
partner and all of a sudden besurprised that your body is
saying no, or you're shuttingdown, or you suddenly have no
desire whatsoever.
And I just want to acknowledgethat, because it oftentimes
makes people feel like they'rebroken, something is wrong with
them, and in reality, nothing iswrong with them.
Their body is just saying, hey,there are some things here that
(07:18):
we need to address.
I can't encourage enoughgetting really good support with
that.
If you're like I think there issome harm in my sexual story, I
need to explore that.
I definitely encourage findinga great therapist or a support
group or a story work coach orsomeone that can walk with you
in that.
(07:38):
And again, yeah, if your partneris asking you to, let's say,
utilize an electronic method toengage in sexual activity, so,
for example, phone sex orFaceTime sex.
Is that even a thing?
Is that a word?
I don't know it is now, but ifthey're asking you for that and
you're not comfortable with itor you're not entirely sure that
it's a private location ontheir end or your end, then that
(08:02):
might be a no for you and,truthfully, we cannot guarantee
that electronic communication isalways private.
If you remember back in 2020,when everything had to move to
Zoom because of the COVIDpandemic, that so many Zoom
calls were getting hijacked andpeople were popping in and I
know that Zoom has done quite abit around that to secure rooms
(08:25):
and spaces, but we can neverguarantee that some industrious
hacker isn't going to get intoelectronic data, and so your
partner may say, hey, I amdeployed or I'm overseas or I'm
on the mission field while yougo back home, I'd really love to
have some intimate connectionwith you, and you may not feel
like that is safe for you, andthat's okay.
(08:46):
What I think I really would liketo encourage in terms of type,
frequency, what is allowedversus not allowed and please
hear air quotes with that isdiscussion, and this isn't
something that we've really beentaught in the church.
We have not been taught as menand women to have a very honest
discussion about what is okayand what is not okay for a given
(09:08):
person.
What is okay for someone withintheir value system and I'm
saying a God-honoring valuesystem might include FaceTime
sex, for example, if someone isdeployed, and for another person
it might not.
And again, that's okay, but youneed to talk through those
things and negotiate thosethings.
I'm going to actually kind ofgo backward for a second, which
(09:29):
might feel a little bit weird,but I also want to just remind
our audience here that intimacyis so much more than intercourse
and orgasm, and again, I thinkthe church hasn't done its best
job, necessarily on languagingthese things, and so I really
(09:50):
truly want to encourage you tolook at intimacy from a far
different perspective thanperhaps maybe you have in the
past.
Maybe this is old hat for youand you are well aware of
relational intimacy, and maybeyou aren't, but if you think
about intimacy and your firstthought is intercourse, I would
encourage you to think of itmuch more broadly and encourage
you to think about it from therelational perspective.
(10:10):
How can we, first and foremost,be good friends?
I am not going to forcesomething on a good friend.
I am not going to coerce a goodfriend.
I am not going to not hear agood friend.
I'm going to hear them.
If someone says to me you know,I know that you love to make
potato salad and I just reallydislike potato salad and I make
(10:33):
it for them anyway, then I'm nota very good friend, am I?
And if they say I don't likepotato salad, I just really
don't like potato salad and Inever make them potato salad.
I make it for myself, you know,and that's totally fine, but I
do not make them potato saladbecause they don't like it.
There is a wonderful video andI'm going to link it in the
(10:55):
resources for this episode oftea and consent.
So it's utilizing someonedrinking tea with consent.
Now we want to look at theBritish version.
There is another version thatis a little more spicy than I
generally would recommend forthis conversation, but that
talks about how to know someonewants a cup of tea.
And intimacy, physical intimacy, is the same thing, and if we
(11:19):
don't have these conversationsand we distill it down to
intercourse only, then we do nothave a good grasp.
So if you're sitting theregoing, I am not sure we've ever
actually talked about intimacy,maybe we need to do that.
I would encourage you, schedulesome time or reach out to your
partner and say, hey, I'd loveto talk about physical intimacy
(11:41):
with you.
I would love to talk aboutintimate relationship as a whole
, even outside of physicalintimacy, and really dive into
that conversation.
I gave a talk at a counselingprofessionals conference and I
was grateful we had such awonderful attendance.
But I was talking about healingour sexual selves when we have
(12:01):
been harmed and one of thetopics I covered in there was
consent and I had the sweetestfemale therapist come up to me
just undone saying I realize Ihave not gotten my husband's
consent and she had actuallyreached out during my session to
her spouse to say, oh my gosh,I've never asked you for consent
(12:22):
, like I've just done what Iwanted.
And he said, yeah, that's true,and it opened up a conversation
.
Now he wasn't upset about itand all of that, but like they
both realized in that moment,this isn't something we've ever
spoken about.
And she was quite comfortabletalking about sex and sexuality
and had done so with her clientsat regular intervals, but had
(12:44):
not done it in her ownrelationship, and there is no
shame there.
I just want to say this I'm notsaying this to shame any
therapist that has ever come upto me, because she's not the
only one that has said this tome.
As I've taught on this topic, itreally is something that we
just haven't been taught isimportant, and that is something
(13:04):
I just really want tounderscore.
If you are listening and youare considering marriage, you
are considering a physicallyintimate relationship.
Now is the time to have adiscussion about what that looks
like for both people.
What kind of frequency iscomfortable for each person?
And look, different levels ofdesire are not wrong.
(13:27):
Sometimes we will see that theman has a higher level of desire
, and sometimes it's the female,and every female I have ever
spoken with honestly, everyChristian female especially that
I have ever spoken with aboutthis has absolutely beaten
herself up if her desire washigher than that of her
husband's.
And I just want to say andplease look at Sheila Gregoire's
(13:49):
research.
She really talks about it.
I believe in both the great sexrescue, but I know she's got it
in the marriage you want that.
That is not always the case.
While men, research-wise, havejust a slightly higher level of
desire in terms of frequency,it's not all men and it's not
all women, and so I think it'sreally important to know that
(14:10):
your body, your desire, yourfrequency perspective might very
well be different, and I don'twant to vilify that Now.
Where I see problems and I'mjust going to be honest about
this is when someone says well,my desire is for three times a
day, every single day.
At that point I honestly amgoing to start thinking about
(14:31):
compulsive sexual behavior orsex addiction, because that is
really outside of the norm andI'm going to want to ask some
questions and I'm not going tomake a decision on that super
fast.
But that is very high, and veryoften I also then hear about
exploitation in a relationshipand coercion of the spouse in
that relationship.
So I just really want to putout there, like, when the
(14:51):
frequency is very much out ofbalance, it's quite high.
Then there are some things thatwe really want to look at.
Sometimes sex addiction can bemasked as oh, I just have a high
desire, and that just isn'ttruth.
And so we really want to lookat the entire constellation of
the desire, the frequency, howit's playing out all of those
things?
Is the party who's saying, oh,I just have a very high desire,
(15:14):
also engaging with prostitutes,or seeking out other people to
have affairs with, or usingpornography or things like that?
I'm going to ask thosequestions, to be honest.
Pornography or things like that?
I'm going to ask thosequestions to be honest.
I also want to just note thatwith talking about it, you
really want to be able to heareach other.
Well, if you guys struggle tocommunicate, this is an area I
really want to encourage gettingpremarital counseling or
(15:37):
marital counseling, and if youare in that premarital space,
again really good.
Premarital counseling is waymore than the Song of Solomon.
It's going to cover all aspectsof your relationship.
It's not just going to coverwho's going to cook and clean
and how often are we going tohave sex.
It's going to be so much more.
And again, your relationalintimacy is your bedrock.
One of my favorite things touse as an illustration is the
(16:00):
Gottman Sound Relationship House.
John and Julie Gottman havestudied tens of thousands of
couples and what they have foundis that the bottom level, the
foundation of any healthyrelationship, is going to be
friendship, and the walls of theSound Relationship House are
trust and commitment.
Without those things, it'sreally worthless to talk about
(16:21):
physical intimacy, because it'snot going to be successful.
So now that we've had thatdiscussion about let's be
friends first, let's have reallygood conversations, let's dive
a little bit deeper into what isokay.
And again my perspective is itdepends and again I know that's
(16:41):
not maybe as helpful as possible, but we don't know.
It can be as simple as a touchon the side of the body that
sends someone into a flashbackor an emotional tailspin,
(17:02):
reckoning back to harm, and sowe may have to go slow.
There's a process calledsensate focus, which can be
really helpful to couples whohave sexual harm as part of
their story, and it really isjust taking things super, super
slow and starting withcompletely non-sexual touch and
moving up over time or not,because you get to choose into
sexual touch and thenintercourse, and I think that's
(17:24):
really important because weagain don't spend a lot of time
talking to people about how doyou decide what is okay and what
isn't okay.
If we have two people that aregetting married and have not
been physically intimate, thennobody knows what they're doing
Like.
Let's just be honest, and ifyou've been married before, you
also don't know what you'redoing with this person.
(17:46):
You need to really take thattime, and the more that we have
these conversations and the morethat we meet each other with
tenderness and kindness, theeasier that they become.
There was a time in my life Icould not talk this openly about
sex and I am so grateful thatthe Lord told me while I was in
(18:07):
graduate school ma'am, you needto figure this out.
And that was really the startof my own healing journey and
being able to put names and talkabout things that had happened
to me.
But it was one of the greatestthings.
I took the human sexualityclass at my university.
My professor was fantastic andI was able to begin talking
(18:27):
about things that previously Ihad been told were off limits to
talk about, and it reallyhelped me start my own healing,
and as I've done that withclients and helped them learn to
talk about things, as I've donethat with clients and helped
them learn to talk about things,it has helped them in their
healing as well, and that'sreally important.
So one question to ask beside isthis okay with me?
(18:48):
Is does what I want to docultivate intimacy or
objectification?
And man.
Those are not the same thing.
Intimacy is going to bring uscloser together.
Intimacy is going to make mefeel like you see me.
Sue Johnson, who is the founderof Emotionally Focused Couples
Therapy, said it this wayintimacy means into me.
(19:12):
You see, yes, as Kurt Thompsonsays, we come into the world
looking for someone, looking forus.
Now we know that that meets itsfullest fulfillment in God.
But we want to be seen by ourintimate partner, without
question.
Without question, we want to beseen by our friends in intimate
(19:33):
ways.
And again, there is healthy,non-sexual intimacy.
I encourage you to read aboutthat in Body and Soul, healed
and Whole, where I talk aboutfriendship.
But we need to really see theother person, and when we see
them first and foremost as animage bearer of the living God,
as a fellow human, then that isour best starting point.
(19:54):
And then we can say does thisfit with treating an image
bearer the way that Jesus wouldwant me to?
And if it doesn't, if it ispornified, if it is objectifying
, if it is something that yourpartner says I am not
comfortable with that, then theanswer should be no, without
(20:15):
question.
Without question.
As you guys discuss it, someonemight say to you it's okay that
we try this.
And then they might say it'snot okay that we do this.
And they might say it in themiddle of it.
Sam Joelman talks about this inhis book the Sex Talk you Never
Got, about stopping intimacywhen consent is removed, even in
(20:36):
the middle of it.
No one will die if they don'thave an orgasm after intercourse
has started or other physicalintimacy has started.
I know it might not becomfortable to stop.
I know that it may be a littlebit disappointing to stop.
But what is the reward if youcontinue?
It's your own gratification.
(20:58):
It's not the health andwell-being and care and kindness
for your partner and that doesnot sound like Jesus to me.
It sounds selfish, frankly.
It sounds like the fruits ofthe flesh if you look at
Galatians 5.
But if we look at the fruit ofthe spirit and we say man, to
stop and give honor, even ifit's uncomfortable for me, even
if it's disappointing for me, isthe right choice because I
(21:21):
value this image, bearer of theliving God that I am partnered
with.
So to that end, have theconversation, be willing to try
something and then stop.
Be willing to say no if yourpartner says this isn't
comfortable for me, and ifsomething originally starts off
as comfortable and we find outthat it is actually maybe
(21:41):
something woven into theirarousal template, that is not
where they want to keep theirfeet.
Be open to that.
As people heal and grow, and aswe grow in relationship, things
change.
There is the bottom level ofthe sound relationship house.
That is love maps, and lovemaps really talk about knowing
your partner's inner world, andI love that so, so much.
(22:05):
When we know our partner'sinner world and we keep learning
more about it over time, thenwe have a much better likelihood
of treating them with honor,kindness and care, and this goes
for women as well as men.
So, ladies, if you arelistening to this and thinking,
yeah, I want that for me, well,you need to extend that as well.
(22:27):
Men have feelings and there is adeep tenderness that maybe is
untapped for some, particularlyin the church, but we want to
have that tenderness for our menas well as for our women, and
truly, when we are all treatingeach other like image bearers of
the living God, it is so muchmore unlikely that we would have
(22:49):
any type of harm, whether it'srelational harm, sexual harm,
any kind of harm.
That doesn't mean that we'regoing to get it perfect.
It does not mean that we willalways be our perfect selves,
our best moments, but what itdoes mean is that we are going
to make a quick repair.
It is not going to be thepattern of our living at all.
It is going to be the hallmarkof us caring well for each other
(23:14):
.
So does this behavior move ustoward wholeness, toward
covenant love?
Does it look like loving eachother, like Jesus loves us, or
does it look pornified,objectifying, salacious?
And those are questions towrestle with and you may not
know.
There might be something thatyou say.
(23:35):
Well, I don't know where Istand on oral sex.
I don't know if that wouldqualify as loving my partner
well, and I think those arethings to ask about.
This is another thing here, andI am now going to talk about
vibrators, so take care ofyourself here if you've never
had a conversation about them.
But particularly as women age,things do not get as lubricated
(23:57):
as they once did, and so if weare going to continue to be able
to have intercourse, we mightneed a little support.
Additionally, orgasm can takelonger, and that's just growing
older.
It's not a bad thing.
It's just the way that we'rebuilt, and so you may need to
engage the utilization of avibrator with your partner, and
(24:17):
that is something that y'allneed to talk about.
You may need to engage in theuse of lubrication with your
partner, and that is somethingthat y'all need to talk about.
You may need to engage in theuse of lubrication with your
partner, and that is somethingthat y'all need to talk about,
and that's really important tohave that conversation so that
it's not surprise.
Here's what we're doing, or, oh,my goodness, I don't know how
to handle this or any of that.
It should be a discussion howdo we do this?
What does this look like for us?
(24:38):
Do we even want to do this?
Do we even want to engage inintercourse or intimacy in these
ways?
And it can be a very frankdiscussion.
And again, the first time youhave this conversation, you
might feel a little bit awkward,and then, the more you do it
and the more that you enter inwell with each other, the less
awkward it becomes, and Ipromise you that it may never be
(24:59):
super easy when we're talkingabout these things, but it also
will be easier.
Another thing that you canreflect on in terms of
discernment, and that's reallywhat we're looking at.
We're looking at not is itpermissible, but what is right
and discerning and wise for us.
Right, as Paul says in the NewTestament, everything is
(25:20):
permissible, but not everythingis a good idea.
Right, as Paul says in the NewTestament, everything is
permissible, but not everythingis a good idea.
Right, and there are going tobe things that walk the line,
and that is something that y'allneed to talk about.
So question number one that youwant to ask each other does
this align with my values and myfaith?
Does this align with mypartner's values and my
partner's faith?
My faith, does this align withmy partner's values and my
(25:44):
partner's faith?
Am I using this to connect withmy partner and really like that
heart level, or actually toavoid intimacy?
That's a hard question to ask.
Truly, how does my body feelafterward?
Do I feel shame?
Do I feel peace?
Do I feel close or do I feeldisconnected?
And is this helping me grow inlove toward God, toward myself
(26:05):
and toward my partner, or is itpulling me away?
If I have the desire to hidebecause of shame afterward, it's
not right at that time, or itmight not be right at all for us
.
I just want to remind you thatGod created relationship as good
.
He created us as a community tobe in community.
He created us to be in intimaterelationships with people and
(26:27):
he created intercourse as goodand beautiful and embodied and
connecting when it is doneproperly, when we are not
pornified, when we are notcoercive, when we are having
these conversations.
Use of technology whether it bea vibrator, whether it be
FaceTime sex, whether it beanything like that isn't
necessarily evil or problematic,but it does need to be
(26:51):
discussed at length and everyoneneeds to feel safe.
And I will remind you thattechnology, no matter how good
it is, is not always secure.
We cannot guarantee thatelectronic media is safe.
That's texting, that's FaceTime, that's emails, that's any type
of video, all of those things.
We cannot guarantee safety.
That means that somebody elsecould see it.
(27:13):
I just want to put that outthere.
You will make the decision thatyou make, but I want you to be
aware of it.
I just want to put that outthere.
You will make the decision thatyou make, but I want you to be
aware of it.
And then healing together reallymeans moving beyond fragmented
expressions of intimacy wherewe're really only talking about
things halfway or not at all,and really toward a deep soul,
body connection.
Again, intimacy starts with ourfriendship, not with
(27:34):
intercourse.
So, if you think about it, evenfrom the alphabetical
perspective, friendship, notwith intercourse.
So if you think about it evenfrom the alphabetical
perspective, friendship F comesbefore intercourse I.
And to start with yourfriendship, if you want to make
your intimate life better, startwith friendship first and work
on your relational intimacy andthen lean into the physical
aspects of intimacy all the wayto intercourse.
(27:55):
And again, I wish the churchtalked about this a bit better,
because intimacy is so much wayto intercourse.
And again, I wish the churchtalked about this a bit better,
because intimacy is so much morethan intercourse.
I don't want you to feel shameas you listen to this today If
you're like I have done none ofthese things well, oh dear,
that's okay.
Maybe you've never thoughtabout it before because, again,
we haven't talked about it wellas the church, and so I'm really
hopeful that this is alife-giving conversation for you
(28:19):
.
Curiosity and honesty with eachother and openness and kindness
and treating each other asimage bearers of the living God
is really the most healing thing, and so if you realize that has
not been what has happened inyour relationship, circle back.
You can start today.
Relationship circle back, youcan start today.
(28:40):
Continue to walk this journeyof truly embodied faith and if
it's helpful, especially ifyou're a female who has had
sexual harm, I stronglyencourage you to grab my book
Body and Soul, healed and WholeAn Invitational Guide to Healthy
Sexuality After Trauma, abuseand Coercive Control.
You can get it anywhere booksare sold and I'll have it linked
in the description.
I'm really glad that you joinedme here today.
(29:01):
This might have been a verydifficult conversation for you
and I'm grateful that you joinedme for it.
As always, take care of you.
You are the only you that youhave.
I wish you all the best.
There are wonderful resourcesout there as it relates to
physical intimacy andrelationship.
I will put them in thedescription.
Thank you so much for joiningme on this week's episode of hey
(29:23):
Tabby.
Thanks for joining me fortoday's episode of hey Tabby.
If you're looking for aresource that I mentioned in the
show and you want to check outthe show notes, head on over to
tabithawestbrookcom forwardslash hey Tababi.
That's H-E-Y-T-A-B-I and youcan grab it there.
I look forward to seeing younext time.
When it comes to what a Christian can do in the
bedroom, what is allowed?
This is a question that I getasked all the time, and this is
what we are going to talk abouttoday on hey Tabby.
Welcome to hey Tabby, thepodcast where we talk about the
hard things out loud, with ouractual lips.
We'll cover all kinds of topicsacross the mental health
(00:22):
spectrum, including how itintersects with the Christian
faith.
Nothing is off limits here andwe are not.
Take two verses and call me inthe morning.
I'm Tabitha Westbrook and I'm alicensed trauma therapist, but
I'm not your trauma therapist.
I'm an expert in domestic abuseand coercive control and how
complex trauma impacts ourhealth and well-being.
Our focus here is knowledge andhealing.
(00:43):
Trauma doesn't have to eat yourlunch forever.
There is hope.
Now let's get going.
Welcome to this week's heyTabby.
I am so glad that you are here.
I am excited and, I guess, alittle bit nervous to talk about
this today.
We get this question reallyoften in the practice and I get
it very often since the releaseof Body and Soul, healed and
(01:06):
Whole, and I wanted to take aminute and answer it on the
podcast because it really issomething a lot of people are
curious about.
Many men and women reallyhonestly want to honor God
through their physical intimacyin their relationship, but they
don't always know what's okay,and I will say that the way the
church has languaged so much hasnot been helpful.
(01:28):
It has really caused confusionand at some points, I believe,
goes into licentiousness in waysthat I cannot be okay with.
I'll say it goes intolicentiousness for one
particular gender and it goesinto submission and slavery for
the other.
(01:49):
Very often Not always, but Ihear it more often than I would
like.
So we're going to talk aboutwhat is okay in the bedroom for
a Christian, and I am just goingto start off with my therapist
answer of all time.
It depends, and I know thatthat is probably literally the
most frustrating way that Icould start this for so many of
(02:12):
us, but I really want to let youknow that this isn't like hard
and fast rules on things.
This is something that you willneed to wrestle with for
yourself and your relationships.
With the change of technology,we've also seen intimacy change.
First, we have seen a massiveuptick in pornography use, for
both men and women.
(02:34):
We have seen quite the rise inerotic fiction, for women in
particular, and all kinds ofpornographic material available
very, very easily, no matterwhat platform you are using.
So no longer do you have to goto the back of a store and
purchase something or go to aspecialized store.
I was actually walking aroundWalgreens the other day and in
(02:56):
the family planning aisle foundvibrators, which was quite
shocking to me.
I did not expect that and Idon't have a problem with
vibrators.
We'll talk about that here in aminute as well but it was
really surprising to see it inWalgreens, in the family
planning aisle.
It was really shocking.
I was like, oh, I did not knowthey sold those.
They also sold other things forinsertion purposes.
(03:17):
I'm not entirely sure I can saythat word in a podcast.
I don't have a problem sayingit out loud, but we will call it
an insertion toy for women.
And it was also surprising tosee that in the Walgreens aisle.
And it means in some ways thattalking about physical intimacy
(03:39):
and intercourse and that kind ofthing is becoming more
commonplace and it's also asymbol of.
We don't quite know what to dowith it.
Because of technology, becauseof more readily accessible items
and information, a lot ofChristians are really finding
themselves not sure where to puttheir feet.
In particular, survivors ofabuse, particularly sexual abuse
(04:02):
, are having a very hard timeknowing what is okay.
Oftentimes they have been takenadvantage of, they have been
forced into things that they didnot consent to and all kinds of
different really wicked andvile things.
I know women who have beentrafficked.
I know women who have beenforced to create pornography
against their will.
I know women who were secretlyfilmed and then those videos
(04:22):
sold, and those are things thatno one should endure.
Quite frankly, they're wicked,they're wrong and it is awful.
But then, when you arebeginning to recover and enter
back into relationship andperhaps remarry, then what
happens then?
What do we do then?
(04:43):
So I want to remind everybody,or tell you for the first time
if this is the first time thatyou're hearing it that we have
what is called an arousaltemplate, and we have arousal
templates for all kinds ofthings.
Arousal does not only mean sex.
It can, but it's not the onlything it can mean.
Arousal is really just any formof excitation.
(05:04):
We have to have things getaroused to get out of bed.
If I don't have some cortisolrelease and I don't have some
energy in my system, I'm notgoing to get up out of bed.
And that is arousal at its verymost biologic sense.
Arousal templates, when we talkabout physical intimacy, are
the things that come together,the constellation of things that
come together, that turn us on,and it is formed in any number
(05:30):
of ways.
It is formed through ourupbringing, through our faith,
through the things that we areexposed to and, sadly, also
through our harm, and you canread more about the arousal
template in Body and Soul,healed and Whole.
But suffice it to say it's areally important part of
figuring out what's okay andwhat's not okay for us.
The first place I encouragepeople to put their feet is what
(05:52):
are your values, what is okaywith you, and you might not know
again if you've experiencedharm.
You might not know that thereis a touch that you don't like
or that your body does notwelcome.
And this is where I would saygo slow, go really slow, because
there's no hurry, there's norush, even though sometimes I
(06:13):
think society and even thechurch makes us feel that way.
But we need to understand thatso many men and women carry
shame and fear around theirsexuality.
The statistic is that one insix men and I've heard more
recently, one in four men and Ineed to double check that and
(06:33):
one in two women or one in fourwomen again I need to double
check my statistics have beensexually abused or assaulted in
their lifetime.
That is stunningly high.
That means, really, honestly,most people have had some sort
of awful experience and even ifyou didn't fully recognize it as
awful at the time, your bodyknew.
Your body keeps the score, ittells the story, and so you may
(06:56):
be ready to engage in somephysical intimacy with your
partner and all of a sudden besurprised that your body is
saying no, or you're shuttingdown, or you suddenly have no
desire whatsoever.
And I just want to acknowledgethat, because it oftentimes
makes people feel like they'rebroken, something is wrong with
them, and in reality, nothing iswrong with them.
Their body is just saying, hey,there are some things here that
(07:18):
we need to address.
I can't encourage enoughgetting really good support with
that.
If you're like I think there issome harm in my sexual story, I
need to explore that.
I definitely encourage findinga great therapist or a support
group or a story work coach orsomeone that can walk with you
in that.
(07:38):
And again, yeah, if your partneris asking you to, let's say,
utilize an electronic method toengage in sexual activity, so,
for example, phone sex orFaceTime sex.
Is that even a thing?
Is that a word?
I don't know it is now, but ifthey're asking you for that and
you're not comfortable with itor you're not entirely sure that
it's a private location ontheir end or your end, then that
(08:02):
might be a no for you and,truthfully, we cannot guarantee
that electronic communication isalways private.
If you remember back in 2020,when everything had to move to
Zoom because of the COVIDpandemic, that so many Zoom
calls were getting hijacked andpeople were popping in and I
know that Zoom has done quite abit around that to secure rooms
(08:25):
and spaces, but we can neverguarantee that some industrious
hacker isn't going to get intoelectronic data, and so your
partner may say, hey, I amdeployed or I'm overseas or I'm
on the mission field while yougo back home, I'd really love to
have some intimate connectionwith you, and you may not feel
like that is safe for you, andthat's okay.
(08:46):
What I think I really would liketo encourage in terms of type,
frequency, what is allowedversus not allowed and please
hear air quotes with that isdiscussion, and this isn't
something that we've really beentaught in the church.
We have not been taught as menand women to have a very honest
discussion about what is okayand what is not okay for a given
(09:08):
person.
What is okay for someone withintheir value system and I'm
saying a God-honoring valuesystem might include FaceTime
sex, for example, if someone isdeployed, and for another person
it might not.
And again, that's okay, but youneed to talk through those
things and negotiate thosethings.
I'm going to actually kind ofgo backward for a second, which
(09:29):
might feel a little bit weird,but I also want to just remind
our audience here that intimacyis so much more than intercourse
and orgasm, and again, I thinkthe church hasn't done its best
job, necessarily on languagingthese things, and so I really
(09:50):
truly want to encourage you tolook at intimacy from a far
different perspective thanperhaps maybe you have in the
past.
Maybe this is old hat for youand you are well aware of
relational intimacy, and maybeyou aren't, but if you think
about intimacy and your firstthought is intercourse, I would
encourage you to think of itmuch more broadly and encourage
you to think about it from therelational perspective.
(10:10):
How can we, first and foremost,be good friends?
I am not going to forcesomething on a good friend.
I am not going to coerce a goodfriend.
I am not going to not hear agood friend.
I'm going to hear them.
If someone says to me you know,I know that you love to make
potato salad and I just reallydislike potato salad and I make
(10:33):
it for them anyway, then I'm nota very good friend, am I?
And if they say I don't likepotato salad, I just really
don't like potato salad and Inever make them potato salad.
I make it for myself, you know,and that's totally fine, but I
do not make them potato saladbecause they don't like it.
There is a wonderful video andI'm going to link it in the
(10:55):
resources for this episode oftea and consent.
So it's utilizing someonedrinking tea with consent.
Now we want to look at theBritish version.
There is another version thatis a little more spicy than I
generally would recommend forthis conversation, but that
talks about how to know someonewants a cup of tea.
And intimacy, physical intimacy, is the same thing, and if we
(11:19):
don't have these conversationsand we distill it down to
intercourse only, then we do nothave a good grasp.
So if you're sitting theregoing, I am not sure we've ever
actually talked about intimacy,maybe we need to do that.
I would encourage you, schedulesome time or reach out to your
partner and say, hey, I'd loveto talk about physical intimacy
(11:41):
with you.
I would love to talk aboutintimate relationship as a whole
, even outside of physicalintimacy, and really dive into
that conversation.
I gave a talk at a counselingprofessionals conference and I
was grateful we had such awonderful attendance.
But I was talking about healingour sexual selves when we have
(12:01):
been harmed and one of thetopics I covered in there was
consent and I had the sweetestfemale therapist come up to me
just undone saying I realize Ihave not gotten my husband's
consent and she had actuallyreached out during my session to
her spouse to say, oh my gosh,I've never asked you for consent
(12:22):
, like I've just done what Iwanted.
And he said, yeah, that's true,and it opened up a conversation
.
Now he wasn't upset about itand all of that, but like they
both realized in that moment,this isn't something we've ever
spoken about.
And she was quite comfortabletalking about sex and sexuality
and had done so with her clientsat regular intervals, but had
(12:44):
not done it in her ownrelationship, and there is no
shame there.
I just want to say this I'm notsaying this to shame any
therapist that has ever come upto me, because she's not the
only one that has said this tome.
As I've taught on this topic, itreally is something that we
just haven't been taught isimportant, and that is something
(13:04):
I just really want tounderscore.
If you are listening and youare considering marriage, you
are considering a physicallyintimate relationship.
Now is the time to have adiscussion about what that looks
like for both people.
What kind of frequency iscomfortable for each person?
And look, different levels ofdesire are not wrong.
(13:27):
Sometimes we will see that theman has a higher level of desire
, and sometimes it's the female,and every female I have ever
spoken with honestly, everyChristian female especially that
I have ever spoken with aboutthis has absolutely beaten
herself up if her desire washigher than that of her
husband's.
And I just want to say andplease look at Sheila Gregoire's
(13:49):
research.
She really talks about it.
I believe in both the great sexrescue, but I know she's got it
in the marriage you want that.
That is not always the case.
While men, research-wise, havejust a slightly higher level of
desire in terms of frequency,it's not all men and it's not
all women, and so I think it'sreally important to know that
(14:10):
your body, your desire, yourfrequency perspective might very
well be different, and I don'twant to vilify that Now.
Where I see problems and I'mjust going to be honest about
this is when someone says well,my desire is for three times a
day, every single day.
At that point I honestly amgoing to start thinking about
(14:31):
compulsive sexual behavior orsex addiction, because that is
really outside of the norm andI'm going to want to ask some
questions and I'm not going tomake a decision on that super
fast.
But that is very high, and veryoften I also then hear about
exploitation in a relationshipand coercion of the spouse in
that relationship.
So I just really want to putout there, like, when the
(14:51):
frequency is very much out ofbalance, it's quite high.
Then there are some things thatwe really want to look at.
Sometimes sex addiction can bemasked as oh, I just have a high
desire, and that just isn'ttruth.
And so we really want to lookat the entire constellation of
the desire, the frequency, howit's playing out all of those
things?
Is the party who's saying, oh,I just have a very high desire,
(15:14):
also engaging with prostitutes,or seeking out other people to
have affairs with, or usingpornography or things like that?
I'm going to ask thosequestions, to be honest.
Pornography or things like that?
I'm going to ask thosequestions to be honest.
I also want to just note thatwith talking about it, you
really want to be able to heareach other.
Well, if you guys struggle tocommunicate, this is an area I
really want to encourage gettingpremarital counseling or
(15:37):
marital counseling, and if youare in that premarital space,
again really good.
Premarital counseling is waymore than the Song of Solomon.
It's going to cover all aspectsof your relationship.
It's not just going to coverwho's going to cook and clean
and how often are we going tohave sex.
It's going to be so much more.
And again, your relationalintimacy is your bedrock.
One of my favorite things touse as an illustration is the
(16:00):
Gottman Sound Relationship House.
John and Julie Gottman havestudied tens of thousands of
couples and what they have foundis that the bottom level, the
foundation of any healthyrelationship, is going to be
friendship, and the walls of theSound Relationship House are
trust and commitment.
Without those things, it'sreally worthless to talk about
(16:21):
physical intimacy, because it'snot going to be successful.
So now that we've had thatdiscussion about let's be
friends first, let's have reallygood conversations, let's dive
a little bit deeper into what isokay.
And again my perspective is itdepends and again I know that's
(16:41):
not maybe as helpful as possible, but we don't know.
It can be as simple as a touchon the side of the body that
sends someone into a flashbackor an emotional tailspin,
(17:02):
reckoning back to harm, and sowe may have to go slow.
There's a process calledsensate focus, which can be
really helpful to couples whohave sexual harm as part of
their story, and it really isjust taking things super, super
slow and starting withcompletely non-sexual touch and
moving up over time or not,because you get to choose into
sexual touch and thenintercourse, and I think that's
(17:24):
really important because weagain don't spend a lot of time
talking to people about how doyou decide what is okay and what
isn't okay.
If we have two people that aregetting married and have not
been physically intimate, thennobody knows what they're doing
Like.
Let's just be honest, and ifyou've been married before, you
also don't know what you'redoing with this person.
(17:46):
You need to really take thattime, and the more that we have
these conversations and the morethat we meet each other with
tenderness and kindness, theeasier that they become.
There was a time in my life Icould not talk this openly about
sex and I am so grateful thatthe Lord told me while I was in
(18:07):
graduate school ma'am, you needto figure this out.
And that was really the startof my own healing journey and
being able to put names and talkabout things that had happened
to me.
But it was one of the greatestthings.
I took the human sexualityclass at my university.
My professor was fantastic andI was able to begin talking
(18:27):
about things that previously Ihad been told were off limits to
talk about, and it reallyhelped me start my own healing,
and as I've done that withclients and helped them learn to
talk about things, as I've donethat with clients and helped
them learn to talk about things,it has helped them in their
healing as well, and that'sreally important.
So one question to ask beside isthis okay with me?
(18:48):
Is does what I want to docultivate intimacy or
objectification?
And man.
Those are not the same thing.
Intimacy is going to bring uscloser together.
Intimacy is going to make mefeel like you see me.
Sue Johnson, who is the founderof Emotionally Focused Couples
Therapy, said it this wayintimacy means into me.
(19:12):
You see, yes, as Kurt Thompsonsays, we come into the world
looking for someone, looking forus.
Now we know that that meets itsfullest fulfillment in God.
But we want to be seen by ourintimate partner, without
question.
Without question, we want to beseen by our friends in intimate
(19:33):
ways.
And again, there is healthy,non-sexual intimacy.
I encourage you to read aboutthat in Body and Soul, healed
and Whole, where I talk aboutfriendship.
But we need to really see theother person, and when we see
them first and foremost as animage bearer of the living God,
as a fellow human, then that isour best starting point.
(19:54):
And then we can say does thisfit with treating an image
bearer the way that Jesus wouldwant me to?
And if it doesn't, if it ispornified, if it is objectifying
, if it is something that yourpartner says I am not
comfortable with that, then theanswer should be no, without
(20:15):
question.
Without question.
As you guys discuss it, someonemight say to you it's okay that
we try this.
And then they might say it'snot okay that we do this.
And they might say it in themiddle of it.
Sam Joelman talks about this inhis book the Sex Talk you Never
Got, about stopping intimacywhen consent is removed, even in
(20:36):
the middle of it.
No one will die if they don'thave an orgasm after intercourse
has started or other physicalintimacy has started.
I know it might not becomfortable to stop.
I know that it may be a littlebit disappointing to stop.
But what is the reward if youcontinue?
It's your own gratification.
(20:58):
It's not the health andwell-being and care and kindness
for your partner and that doesnot sound like Jesus to me.
It sounds selfish, frankly.
It sounds like the fruits ofthe flesh if you look at
Galatians 5.
But if we look at the fruit ofthe spirit and we say man, to
stop and give honor, even ifit's uncomfortable for me, even
if it's disappointing for me, isthe right choice because I
(21:21):
value this image, bearer of theliving God that I am partnered
with.
So to that end, have theconversation, be willing to try
something and then stop.
Be willing to say no if yourpartner says this isn't
comfortable for me, and ifsomething originally starts off
as comfortable and we find outthat it is actually maybe
(21:41):
something woven into theirarousal template, that is not
where they want to keep theirfeet.
Be open to that.
As people heal and grow, and aswe grow in relationship, things
change.
There is the bottom level ofthe sound relationship house.
That is love maps, and lovemaps really talk about knowing
your partner's inner world, andI love that so, so much.
(22:05):
When we know our partner'sinner world and we keep learning
more about it over time, thenwe have a much better likelihood
of treating them with honor,kindness and care, and this goes
for women as well as men.
So, ladies, if you arelistening to this and thinking,
yeah, I want that for me, well,you need to extend that as well.
(22:27):
Men have feelings and there is adeep tenderness that maybe is
untapped for some, particularlyin the church, but we want to
have that tenderness for our menas well as for our women, and
truly, when we are all treatingeach other like image bearers of
the living God, it is so muchmore unlikely that we would have
(22:49):
any type of harm, whether it'srelational harm, sexual harm,
any kind of harm.
That doesn't mean that we'regoing to get it perfect.
It does not mean that we willalways be our perfect selves,
our best moments, but what itdoes mean is that we are going
to make a quick repair.
It is not going to be thepattern of our living at all.
It is going to be the hallmarkof us caring well for each other
(23:14):
.
So does this behavior move ustoward wholeness, toward
covenant love?
Does it look like loving eachother, like Jesus loves us, or
does it look pornified,objectifying, salacious?
And those are questions towrestle with and you may not
know.
There might be something thatyou say.
(23:35):
Well, I don't know where Istand on oral sex.
I don't know if that wouldqualify as loving my partner
well, and I think those arethings to ask about.
This is another thing here, andI am now going to talk about
vibrators, so take care ofyourself here if you've never
had a conversation about them.
But particularly as women age,things do not get as lubricated
(23:57):
as they once did, and so if weare going to continue to be able
to have intercourse, we mightneed a little support.
Additionally, orgasm can takelonger, and that's just growing
older.
It's not a bad thing.
It's just the way that we'rebuilt, and so you may need to
engage the utilization of avibrator with your partner, and
(24:17):
that is something that y'allneed to talk about.
You may need to engage in theuse of lubrication with your
partner, and that is somethingthat y'all need to talk about.
You may need to engage in theuse of lubrication with your
partner, and that is somethingthat y'all need to talk about,
and that's really important tohave that conversation so that
it's not surprise.
Here's what we're doing, or, oh,my goodness, I don't know how
to handle this or any of that.
It should be a discussion howdo we do this?
What does this look like for us?
(24:38):
Do we even want to do this?
Do we even want to engage inintercourse or intimacy in these
ways?
And it can be a very frankdiscussion.
And again, the first time youhave this conversation, you
might feel a little bit awkward,and then, the more you do it
and the more that you enter inwell with each other, the less
awkward it becomes, and Ipromise you that it may never be
(24:59):
super easy when we're talkingabout these things, but it also
will be easier.
Another thing that you canreflect on in terms of
discernment, and that's reallywhat we're looking at.
We're looking at not is itpermissible, but what is right
and discerning and wise for us.
Right, as Paul says in the NewTestament, everything is
(25:20):
permissible, but not everythingis a good idea.
Right, as Paul says in the NewTestament, everything is
permissible, but not everythingis a good idea.
Right, and there are going tobe things that walk the line,
and that is something that y'allneed to talk about.
So question number one that youwant to ask each other does
this align with my values and myfaith?
Does this align with mypartner's values and my
partner's faith?
My faith, does this align withmy partner's values and my
(25:44):
partner's faith?
Am I using this to connect withmy partner and really like that
heart level, or actually toavoid intimacy?
That's a hard question to ask.
Truly, how does my body feelafterward?
Do I feel shame?
Do I feel peace?
Do I feel close or do I feeldisconnected?
And is this helping me grow inlove toward God, toward myself
(26:05):
and toward my partner, or is itpulling me away?
If I have the desire to hidebecause of shame afterward, it's
not right at that time, or itmight not be right at all for us
.
I just want to remind you thatGod created relationship as good
.
He created us as a community tobe in community.
He created us to be in intimaterelationships with people and
(26:27):
he created intercourse as goodand beautiful and embodied and
connecting when it is doneproperly, when we are not
pornified, when we are notcoercive, when we are having
these conversations.
Use of technology whether it bea vibrator, whether it be
FaceTime sex, whether it beanything like that isn't
necessarily evil or problematic,but it does need to be
(26:51):
discussed at length and everyoneneeds to feel safe.
And I will remind you thattechnology, no matter how good
it is, is not always secure.
We cannot guarantee thatelectronic media is safe.
That's texting, that's FaceTime, that's emails, that's any type
of video, all of those things.
We cannot guarantee safety.
That means that somebody elsecould see it.
(27:13):
I just want to put that outthere.
You will make the decision thatyou make, but I want you to be
aware of it.
I just want to put that outthere.
You will make the decision thatyou make, but I want you to be
aware of it.
And then healing together reallymeans moving beyond fragmented
expressions of intimacy wherewe're really only talking about
things halfway or not at all,and really toward a deep soul,
body connection.
Again, intimacy starts with ourfriendship, not with
(27:34):
intercourse.
So, if you think about it, evenfrom the alphabetical
perspective, friendship, notwith intercourse.
So if you think about it evenfrom the alphabetical
perspective, friendship F comesbefore intercourse I.
And to start with yourfriendship, if you want to make
your intimate life better, startwith friendship first and work
on your relational intimacy andthen lean into the physical
aspects of intimacy all the wayto intercourse.
(27:55):
And again, I wish the churchtalked about this a bit better,
because intimacy is so much wayto intercourse.
And again, I wish the churchtalked about this a bit better,
because intimacy is so much morethan intercourse.
I don't want you to feel shameas you listen to this today If
you're like I have done none ofthese things well, oh dear,
that's okay.
Maybe you've never thoughtabout it before because, again,
we haven't talked about it wellas the church, and so I'm really
hopeful that this is alife-giving conversation for you
(28:19):
.
Curiosity and honesty with eachother and openness and kindness
and treating each other asimage bearers of the living God
is really the most healing thing, and so if you realize that has
not been what has happened inyour relationship, circle back.
You can start today.
Relationship circle back, youcan start today.
(28:40):
Continue to walk this journeyof truly embodied faith and if
it's helpful, especially ifyou're a female who has had
sexual harm, I stronglyencourage you to grab my book
Body and Soul, healed and WholeAn Invitational Guide to Healthy
Sexuality After Trauma, abuseand Coercive Control.
You can get it anywhere booksare sold and I'll have it linked
in the description.
I'm really glad that you joinedme here today.
(29:01):
This might have been a verydifficult conversation for you
and I'm grateful that you joinedme for it.
As always, take care of you.
You are the only you that youhave.
I wish you all the best.
There are wonderful resourcesout there as it relates to
physical intimacy andrelationship.
I will put them in thedescription.
Thank you so much for joiningme on this week's episode of hey
(29:23):
Tabby.
Thanks for joining me fortoday's episode of hey Tabby.
If you're looking for aresource that I mentioned in the
show and you want to check outthe show notes, head on over to
tabithawestbrookcom forwardslash hey Tababi.
That's H-E-Y-T-A-B-I and youcan grab it there.
I look forward to seeing younext time.
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