July 7, 2025 • 20 mins
What if the sweetest thing someone ever did for you… was actually part of the abuse?
In this powerful episode of Hey Tabi, licensed trauma therapist Tabitha Westbrook dives deep into the tactic of manipulative kindness, a dangerous, confusing form of coercive control that keeps victims stuck in toxic relationships.
This isn’t the “honeymoon phase.” It’s not real love. It’s a weapon dressed up as a gift.
You’ll learn:
- What manipulative kindness looks like in real life
- Why it feels so good—and why that’s part of the trap
- How trauma bonding and intermittent reinforcement keep you hooked
- Red flags to watch for (like minimization, strings attached, and false repentance)
- How to tell the difference between real kindness and control wrapped in charm
- Where to turn for help and how to begin healing
If you've ever been told, “See? He's trying,” right after being harmed, or felt guilty for not being grateful for someone’s sudden niceness, this episode is for you.
💡 Kindness should never come with strings.
💡 Control wrapped in charm is still control.
🎧 Listen now and take the first step toward clarity and healing.
🛑 Need help? Resources below.
📚 Mentioned Resources:
- Called to Peace Ministries → https://www.calledtopeace.org
- Conquer by Leslie Vernick → https://leslievernick.com/nav-conquersignup/
- The Marriage You Want by Sheila Wray Gregoire → https://a.co/d/4jjmxkj
- Find a trauma-informed therapist → https://thejourneyandtheprocess.com
🎧 Subscribe to Hey Tabi for more expert conversations on trauma, faith, and healing.
📩 Connect with Tabitha:
💻 Tabitha's Website - www.tabithawestbrook.com
📲 Tabitha's Instagram - www.instagram.com/tabithathecounselor
🎙️ Podcast Homepage - https://heytabi.buzzsprout.com
💻 The Journey & The Process Website - www.thejourneyandtheprocess.com
📲 The Journey & The Process Instagram - www.instagram.com/_tjatp
Subscribe to my YouTube Channel & watch podcast episodes there
👍 If this episode resonated with you, please like, subscribe, and share to help others who need this information!
🚨 Disclaimer: This podcast is not therapy and is intended for educational purposes only. If you're in crisis or need therapy, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional.
Need to know how to find a great therapist? Read this...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What if the sweetest thing someone ever did for you
was actually part of the abuse?
What if flowers, compliments,even I love yous were used like
weapons, not to cherish you butto control you?
In today's episode, we arepulling back the curtain on
something that keeps so manypeople stuck in toxic
relationships Manipulativekindness.
(00:22):
It looks like love, it feelslike relief, but it's actually a
trap.
Welcome to hey Tabby, thepodcast where we talk about the
hard things out loud, with ouractual lips.
We'll cover all kinds of topicsacross the mental health
spectrum, including how itintersects with the Christian
(00:42):
faith.
Nothing is off limits here andwe are not.
Take two verses and call me inthe morning.
I'm Tabitha Westbrook and I'm alicensed trauma therapist.
But I'm not your traumatherapist.
I'm an expert in domestic abuseand coercive control and how
complex trauma impacts ourhealth and well-being.
Our focus here is knowledge andhealing.
Trauma doesn't have to eat yourlunch forever.
(01:03):
There is hope.
Now let's get going.
If that opening made yourstomach flip or brought back a
memory, you are not alone.
Let's talk about whymanipulative kindness is so
powerful but also so dangerous.
It is a really important topicto talk about.
Back in the day, this used tobe called the honeymoon phase.
(01:27):
We used to have what was termedthe cycle of abuse, and it was
the best guess at the time ofhow abuse dynamics work and how
things go.
Unfortunately, it wasn't fullyaccurate and what it ended up
doing when talking about thehoneymoon phase was ostensibly
telling victims oh, everythingis fine, this is the nice part
(01:48):
of them, or whatever, when whatwas really happening was still
part of the abuse process.
Understanding more about thedynamics of coercive control
really helps us unpack this alittle bit more.
When we look at something aslike oh, this is where they're
being nice and this is the goodpart of them, that can really
(02:08):
get tricky, because then wethink, oh well, if they were
just more like this, then theabuse won't happen, it'll be
fine, we'll be good.
And that's not really whathappens.
And so when we term it that way, we forget that what's really
happening is a full dynamic ofpower and control in the
relationship.
So we're going to unpack thisfrom the lens of coercive
control to understand what'shappening for people when
(02:35):
manipulative kindness shows up.
So when we think of somethinglike as the honeymoon phase,
we're thinking, oh, this isthese good moments, this is when
things are calm.
I want more of this.
I'm going to try to get that.
What's really happening thereisn't that we have stopped
exercising power and control.
(02:56):
What happened is the abuser hasstarted doing it differently
and the point of it is to bringyou back into submission and
subjection.
The point is to lull you backin.
The point is it's bait, and Iknow that sounds really harsh,
but it's a true statement.
It's like, oh well, you gotreally upset about this.
(03:17):
Or oh, we had this blow up.
Or, if it was physical, and lawenforcement became involved in
some way.
Or maybe the church becameinvolved in some way, or maybe
the church became involved insome way.
It's the abuser's way of saying,hey, this is something I need
to calm down, I need to get themback on my side, I need to lull
them back in and pull them backin to my web, if you will.
So if you think about it as anenticement, the carrot on the
(03:40):
end of a stick it's all part ofthe overall dynamic of coercive
control in the relationship.
It's just a different way oftrying to control the victim
when manipulative kindness isexercised.
One of the biggest problemswith manipulative kindness is
that it lulls you into a senseof security and it feels like
(04:02):
there's healing happening.
It gives you that sense of Ineed my body to calm down.
This feels way better thanwhatever the abusive behavior
was.
That was more overt, and so itfeels like, oh yeah, this is
what I need, this is what I needright here.
We just wanna keep it here.
And then that keeps youcompliant and complicit and also
gives you the lie of like, oh,I can like do X, y, z and the
(04:26):
relationship won't be that bad.
Or oh, he or she can dowhatever and they can do this,
so I know they can.
I'm going to hold out for itagain.
So, if we think about how itworks, it really is the predator
having this attitude of I'mgoing to give you something good
, something that you more thanlikely for sure need, like
(04:48):
kindness, love, care, compassion, and that's going to be what I
use then to draw you back in andgive me additional control and
power over you.
One of the starkest examples Iremember seeing of this in a
book was in Dan Allender'sHealing the Wounded Heart, and
it is talking about a sexualabuse victim who really
(05:09):
struggled because the abusewould be awful and violent and
physically deeply harmful.
And then the abuser wouldactually take this victim and
dress their wounds and, you know, put bandages on them and that
felt like care and kindness whenthey'd been so harmed.
And so it was really confusingand really a weaponization then
(05:30):
of real kindness and care thatthe person needed.
The other thing that I think isinteresting in all of this is
the concept of intermittentreinforcement.
Intermittent reinforcement is abehavioral learning where we
reinforce a behavior at thehighest level when we only get
the reward sometimes.
So if you have a reallydifficult and toxic and
(05:53):
coercively controllingrelationship and then sometimes
you get kindness and compassion,you have reinforced for the
victim the compliance behavior.
Right, they're bowing to youthe subjugation because you
sometimes give kindness, sothey're going to hold out for
that kindness over and over andover and over again.
(06:13):
One of the things I often tellvictims is that's not their
actual character.
The care and kindness andcompassion you see is that
manipulative kindness.
It is a tool to draw you backin, to suck you back in to the
harm that they are perpetratingand to gain and maintain control
over you.
But because we want to believethe good, especially as
(06:34):
Christians my goodness, asChristians and we should right.
We should believe in redemption, we should believe in goodness,
we should believe in repentance.
But also, as Maya Angelou says,when someone shows you who they
are, leave them.
And if their overall characteris one of coercion and control,
those nice moments are actuallynot real.
They are a game, they aremanipulation, they are that
(06:57):
manipulative kindness and theyare meant to have a means to an
end, to continue control overyou.
And that's so hard because,again, like I said, we want to
believe the good in someone.
I know I feel that way, right,especially if someone can be
really charming in thosemanipulative kindness moments
and they can really give yougood things and you're like I
(07:17):
need love, I need kindness, Ineed this care so much and I'm
getting it, and so maybe thislittle bit is enough.
It's enough and it really isn'tgoing to ultimately do that,
but it is going to keep youstuck.
And I think there is that piecebecause we do want repentance
and we do want goodness and wedo genuinely love the coercively
(07:40):
controlling partner.
Right, like, we don't go intorelationships thinking I would
like this to be terrible.
We go into them hoping andpraying that they're going to be
good, and so there is that.
Well, maybe they really mean itthis time.
Maybe this kindness, this I'msorry the return to some level
of compassion or whatever, maybethere is really heart change
here this time.
And I will tell you,unfortunately that's not what we
(08:03):
often see.
We often see it being part ofthe overall coercion and control
.
And truly heart change is morethan behavior modification.
It's more than the person beingnice to you.
Some of the time it's reallythis person having a true
character change, understandinghow they have hurt you and
(08:23):
making amends and repenting forit, even if it means leaving
their relationship or therelationship can't be saved.
When I'm working withdestructive men, one of the
things I say is that first youneed to be reconciled to God,
but you may have broken therelationship so badly and done
such deep harm that therelationship itself cannot be
saved.
And destructive people who arereally truly changing understand
(08:46):
that they grieve it.
Of course they grieve whatthey've done, but they also are
not trying to hold on tosomething that is something that
they broke and hurt.
They really give that otherperson the autonomy and that is
true care and kindness.
One of the things I've saidover and over to destructive
individuals I've worked with.
Is you adhering to a boundarythat your spouse set?
(09:10):
Is actually loving them?
Yes, that means you don't talkto them.
If they say don't talk to me,absolutely, it means that you
don't see them.
If they say I don't want to seeyou, and you don't complain
about it, you may be sad, it'sokay to feel sad, but what you
don't do is violate it.
And over and over and overagain, I see these destructive
individuals prioritizethemselves over their partner by
(09:33):
absolutely walking throughboundaries and not holding them
at all and then being like what?
Why can't I talk to my spouse?
Because they truly don'tunderstand the depth and level
of harm that they have caused.
And so when we see that, yeah,well, I just brought her flowers
, okay, but this person saidthey don't want to talk to you,
that they don't feel safe aroundyou, so you're dropping off
(09:55):
flowers or food or any of thoseother things, again, it's
manipulative kindness.
What is the purpose?
And the purpose is to draw themback in, right?
So here are some things thatcan help you identify when we
have a manipulative kindnesssituation.
The first one is it shows upafter the abuser has gotten in
(10:22):
trouble for something, so maybethe pastor has confronted them
or law enforcement has becomeinvolved.
A family member might have saidsomething and all of a sudden
they're super nice.
Or you got really angry and youset a boundary and all of a
sudden now they're really reallynice.
So that is one sign.
Another sign is that thebehavior goes back.
So it goes back to the way itwas, with power and control and
(10:45):
restrictions and not hearing,boundaries and that kind of
thing.
So it doesn't last.
So the kindness doesn't last.
Another sign that it ismanipulative kindness is the
harm that was caused to you isminimized.
Well, it wasn't that bad.
See, I brought you flowers, Imade you dinner, I helped with
the kids, whatever it is.
(11:06):
And so there's that hallmark ofcoercive control which is the
minimizing, denying and blaming.
So we're seeing the minimizingthere and the denying.
It wasn't that bad, even thoughyou're like man, it felt that
bad.
It felt that bad.
Right, it also might come withstrings attached.
I did this, now you do that.
I was kind to you, I helpedwith the kids.
Now have sex with me, or I didthis thing for you.
(11:29):
Can't we just stop talkingabout this thing?
Look, I'm helping with the kids.
I helped you clean the kitchen.
I did the thing.
We don't need to bring up theharm again.
Right, that is a completeminimization of what it was like
to be harmed for the personthat was harmed and we should be
able to talk through things.
There should be a realrepentance and if that's not
there, then it is manipulativekindness.
It's really like let's shove itunder the rug or put a blanket
(11:49):
over the elephant that'sliterally standing in the middle
of the room so that I don'thave to take responsibility and
accountability that's anotherthing is manipulative kindness,
is a total lack ofaccountability.
It is a lack of saying I didyou harm and owning it and
really repenting of it.
And repentance is not doing itagain.
(12:09):
Manipulative kindness also showsup when you disagree hey, this
doesn't feel good, I don't wantflowers from you.
And then they get butthurt andangry and start berating you
again and the coercive controlshows right back up in full
force.
That is another sign thatmanipulative kindness is an
actual kindness.
There are strings attached.
(12:30):
That is another sign thatmanipulative kindness is an
actual kindness.
There are strings attached.
That is another sign of it.
When it's like again, tit fortat.
Relationships are nottransactional.
We treat each other wellbecause it's right and good and
because we see the other personas an image bearer of the living
God and not to get something.
If it is I did this for you,now you do this for me then
(12:50):
there are strings attached.
It's not a free gift, it's notloving and it's not real
repentance.
So how do we know when somebodyis really being kind and it's
not just coming with anexpectation or harm that follows
right after it?
Well, first of all, it'sconsistent over time.
It's the general vibe of howpeople treat you.
(13:11):
They are kind as a rule.
They're not manufacturing it.
They're not all of a suddenlove bombing you because they
messed up in some way.
It's just generally how youtreat somebody.
So if your spouse regularlybrings you flowers just because
they love you and they careabout you, if they actually
repent and aren't trying to fixit by doing things or giving you
(13:35):
things, they are genuinelybroken over harm that was caused
.
And look, we are all going tohurt each other's feelings every
now and again.
We're going to say things,we're going to say something
mean.
It's not a pattern of power andcontrol.
We're not trying to take theother person's personhood, we
just had a really bad day and werepent for it, we go, I'm
really sorry, and we don't do itagain.
It's not our way of being, itwas truly a one-off.
(13:58):
That is a sign that there'sreal kindness.
There there's anacknowledgement of oh my gosh, I
really hurt you and I'm sosorry, and they really care
about your feelings.
They let you fully express them.
There's not excuse making.
None of that stuff shows up.
There's also consistency.
(14:22):
Again, this is their way ofbeing.
Power and control is not, andthat is a huge difference and
your body will feel it.
Your body absolutely can feelit and register it when it is
not manipulative kindness, andit can when it is.
This doesn't feel genuine is agood sign that you have a
problem.
Or, like gosh man, this doesseem to be genuine.
They are doing this over time.
It is a long period of timethat we have right.
(14:45):
So I'm not into short-termbehavioral modification.
This is heart change.
How is the posture of theirheart toward you?
And that will tell you if it'sreally kind.
Also, there's mutual respect.
No one's putting you in aone-down position.
No one is lording anything overyou.
It is mutually respectful Ifthose things aren't present.
(15:05):
Respectful.
If those things aren't present,then the kindness is probably
not genuine.
If it is long periods of powerand control and occasional care
and kindness, then it'sdefinitely not genuine If it
doesn't come with change inother places.
So let's say there was a blow-up, there was a big fight, maybe
(15:25):
the person kept you from leavingthe room and you're like, oh my
goodness.
And they're like, oh yeah,sorry, sorry, that'll never
happen again, whatever you know,and you're like, hey, here are
other areas of the relationshipwe need to work on, like I need
to see our finances, I need tohave visibility, and they're
like nope, nope, nope, andthere's power and control still
in the relationship.
Then we still have a problem.
That's not real change, it'snot how it works and that is
(15:47):
really important stuff.
You want to look at the wholeconstellation of the
relationship and I know how hardit is.
I know how hard it is when youare so desperate for love and
care.
We need that, we legitimatelyneed that.
And people who are coercivelycontrolling they capitalize on
our very real need for belonging, for care, for kindness.
(16:09):
They capitalize on that to keepyou controlled.
That is so outside of the realmof who God is in our lives and
how he treats us, that the onlything I can say is that is
patently unbiblical to betreated in a coercively
controlling way.
You know I get how tricky ittruly can be to understand
(16:31):
whether or not this ismanipulative kindness.
Is it real heart change andgood manipulators honestly like?
I'm just going to be straightwith you they make it real
tricky because they aren't clearat all on it and they want
again to pull you back intotheir web.
The goal is control.
It is power over you, becauseto them you are a couch that can
talk.
You are an object.
(16:52):
You are not an image bearer ofthe living God, and I hate to
say that, especially when you'relike but at least those moments
of kindness feel good, and ofcourse they do.
When you feel trapped and yourcaptor is giving you kindness,
it's going to feel good.
And that makes it moreconfusing, especially if you
care about them, especially ifyou have kids with them.
(17:12):
It is really, really difficult.
Now if you're listening to thisweek's episode and going oh
goodness, I have a name forwhat's happening and I don't
love it, what do I do?
I want to encourage you.
Reach out for help.
You can absolutely reach outfor help.
There are ministries like Callto Peace Ministries that will
(17:33):
help you.
You can reach out to atherapist who understands
domestic abuse and coercivecontrol, who will help you and
you can get some support.
You can reach out to atherapist who understands
domestic abuse and coercivecontrol, who will help you and
you can get some support.
You can tell a trusted friendand really do be careful.
In-laws are not your trustedfriend.
I know that you may have a goodrelationship with them, but
(17:54):
sometimes blood is thicker thanwater and I have seen clients
say I thought I could trust mymother-in-law or my
sister-in-law or whatnot andcome to find out that when it
came down to brass tacks, theywere going to be loyal to the
abuser.
So just really be mindful andcareful.
Sometimes going outside of yourimmediate circle is actually
the best first step.
So that's why I do recommendministries like Call to Peace or
(18:17):
Leslie Vernick's Conquer isalso really helpful.
So any of those places areplaces that you can start to
disentangle some of this.
Also, great therapy, again withsomeone who understands
domestic abuse and coercivecontrol can help you disentangle
it and wrestle through what ishappening in your relationship
and in your life.
Kindness should not come withstrings.
(18:38):
Your life Kindness should notcome with strings.
Kindness should be a gift thatwe give, because people are
fellow image bearers of theliving God, and it is right and
good.
And when your heart is trulyfollowing the Lord, you are
marked by kindness and not bycontrol.
The life of a decent humanreally, truly, is more kindness
than anything else, and youdon't have to prove your worth
(19:01):
or value.
You are treated as an imagebearer of the living God.
You are treated with care, withkindness, with respect.
Your opinion matters and peoplegive you good things or do good
things for you, not to getsomething from you, but
genuinely because they careabout you.
It is not tit for tat.
Healthy relationships are nottransactional.
(19:22):
When we talk abouttransactional relationships,
that's I pay a plumber to comein and do things right.
That's a transactionalrelationship.
I'm not going to go toChristmas with them, with my
spouse.
It is not transactional at all.
That's not how healthyrelationships work.
If you really want to look at agood book as well that talks
about healthy marriage, Idefinitely commend Sheila Ray
(19:45):
Gregoire's book that she wrotewith her husband called the
Marriage you Want, and I'll linkall these resources in the show
notes.
I'm really glad that you werehere with me today.
If you are realizing oh mygoodness, what happened this is
manipulative kindness and I havetotally been getting snowed by
this person Reach out for help.
Find a good therapist.
(20:05):
Reach out to a ministry.
Tell somebody that's safe andget help, because you do deserve
so much better.
And if you are sitting theregoing oh my goodness, gracious,
I really need to tell a friendabout this.
This absolutely looks liketheir relationship.
Send the podcast to them, sendthem a link, say hey, you got to
listen to this.
Make sure that you like andsubscribe and follow us on all
(20:26):
the socials and follow ourYouTube channel, and we'll see
you again next time.
Thanks for joining me fortoday's episode of hey Tabby.
If you're looking for aresource that I mentioned in the
show and you want to check outthe show notes, head on over to
tabithawestbrookcom forwardslash hey Tabby.
That's H-E-Y-T-A-B-I and youcan grab it there.
(20:49):
I look forward to seeing younext time.
What if the sweetest thing someone ever did for you
was actually part of the abuse?
What if flowers, compliments,even I love yous were used like
weapons, not to cherish you butto control you?
In today's episode, we arepulling back the curtain on
something that keeps so manypeople stuck in toxic
relationships Manipulativekindness.
(00:22):
It looks like love, it feelslike relief, but it's actually a
trap.
Welcome to hey Tabby, thepodcast where we talk about the
hard things out loud, with ouractual lips.
We'll cover all kinds of topicsacross the mental health
spectrum, including how itintersects with the Christian
(00:42):
faith.
Nothing is off limits here andwe are not.
Take two verses and call me inthe morning.
I'm Tabitha Westbrook and I'm alicensed trauma therapist.
But I'm not your traumatherapist.
I'm an expert in domestic abuseand coercive control and how
complex trauma impacts ourhealth and well-being.
Our focus here is knowledge andhealing.
Trauma doesn't have to eat yourlunch forever.
(01:03):
There is hope.
Now let's get going.
If that opening made yourstomach flip or brought back a
memory, you are not alone.
Let's talk about whymanipulative kindness is so
powerful but also so dangerous.
It is a really important topicto talk about.
Back in the day, this used tobe called the honeymoon phase.
(01:27):
We used to have what was termedthe cycle of abuse, and it was
the best guess at the time ofhow abuse dynamics work and how
things go.
Unfortunately, it wasn't fullyaccurate and what it ended up
doing when talking about thehoneymoon phase was ostensibly
telling victims oh, everythingis fine, this is the nice part
(01:48):
of them, or whatever, when whatwas really happening was still
part of the abuse process.
Understanding more about thedynamics of coercive control
really helps us unpack this alittle bit more.
When we look at something aslike oh, this is where they're
being nice and this is the goodpart of them, that can really
(02:08):
get tricky, because then wethink, oh well, if they were
just more like this, then theabuse won't happen, it'll be
fine, we'll be good.
And that's not really whathappens.
And so when we term it that way, we forget that what's really
happening is a full dynamic ofpower and control in the
relationship.
So we're going to unpack thisfrom the lens of coercive
control to understand what'shappening for people when
(02:35):
manipulative kindness shows up.
So when we think of somethinglike as the honeymoon phase,
we're thinking, oh, this isthese good moments, this is when
things are calm.
I want more of this.
I'm going to try to get that.
What's really happening thereisn't that we have stopped
exercising power and control.
(02:56):
What happened is the abuser hasstarted doing it differently
and the point of it is to bringyou back into submission and
subjection.
The point is to lull you backin.
The point is it's bait, and Iknow that sounds really harsh,
but it's a true statement.
It's like, oh well, you gotreally upset about this.
(03:17):
Or oh, we had this blow up.
Or, if it was physical, and lawenforcement became involved in
some way.
Or maybe the church becameinvolved in some way, or maybe
the church became involved insome way.
It's the abuser's way of saying,hey, this is something I need
to calm down, I need to get themback on my side, I need to lull
them back in and pull them backin to my web, if you will.
So if you think about it as anenticement, the carrot on the
(03:40):
end of a stick it's all part ofthe overall dynamic of coercive
control in the relationship.
It's just a different way oftrying to control the victim
when manipulative kindness isexercised.
One of the biggest problemswith manipulative kindness is
that it lulls you into a senseof security and it feels like
(04:02):
there's healing happening.
It gives you that sense of Ineed my body to calm down.
This feels way better thanwhatever the abusive behavior
was.
That was more overt, and so itfeels like, oh yeah, this is
what I need, this is what I needright here.
We just wanna keep it here.
And then that keeps youcompliant and complicit and also
gives you the lie of like, oh,I can like do X, y, z and the
(04:26):
relationship won't be that bad.
Or oh, he or she can dowhatever and they can do this,
so I know they can.
I'm going to hold out for itagain.
So, if we think about how itworks, it really is the predator
having this attitude of I'mgoing to give you something good
, something that you more thanlikely for sure need, like
(04:48):
kindness, love, care, compassion, and that's going to be what I
use then to draw you back in andgive me additional control and
power over you.
One of the starkest examples Iremember seeing of this in a
book was in Dan Allender'sHealing the Wounded Heart, and
it is talking about a sexualabuse victim who really
(05:09):
struggled because the abusewould be awful and violent and
physically deeply harmful.
And then the abuser wouldactually take this victim and
dress their wounds and, you know, put bandages on them and that
felt like care and kindness whenthey'd been so harmed.
And so it was really confusingand really a weaponization then
(05:30):
of real kindness and care thatthe person needed.
The other thing that I think isinteresting in all of this is
the concept of intermittentreinforcement.
Intermittent reinforcement is abehavioral learning where we
reinforce a behavior at thehighest level when we only get
the reward sometimes.
So if you have a reallydifficult and toxic and
(05:53):
coercively controllingrelationship and then sometimes
you get kindness and compassion,you have reinforced for the
victim the compliance behavior.
Right, they're bowing to youthe subjugation because you
sometimes give kindness, sothey're going to hold out for
that kindness over and over andover and over again.
(06:13):
One of the things I often tellvictims is that's not their
actual character.
The care and kindness andcompassion you see is that
manipulative kindness.
It is a tool to draw you backin, to suck you back in to the
harm that they are perpetratingand to gain and maintain control
over you.
But because we want to believethe good, especially as
(06:34):
Christians my goodness, asChristians and we should right.
We should believe in redemption, we should believe in goodness,
we should believe in repentance.
But also, as Maya Angelou says,when someone shows you who they
are, leave them.
And if their overall characteris one of coercion and control,
those nice moments are actuallynot real.
They are a game, they aremanipulation, they are that
(06:57):
manipulative kindness and theyare meant to have a means to an
end, to continue control overyou.
And that's so hard because,again, like I said, we want to
believe the good in someone.
I know I feel that way, right,especially if someone can be
really charming in thosemanipulative kindness moments
and they can really give yougood things and you're like I
(07:17):
need love, I need kindness, Ineed this care so much and I'm
getting it, and so maybe thislittle bit is enough.
It's enough and it really isn'tgoing to ultimately do that,
but it is going to keep youstuck.
And I think there is that piecebecause we do want repentance
and we do want goodness and wedo genuinely love the coercively
(07:40):
controlling partner.
Right, like, we don't go intorelationships thinking I would
like this to be terrible.
We go into them hoping andpraying that they're going to be
good, and so there is that.
Well, maybe they really mean itthis time.
Maybe this kindness, this I'msorry the return to some level
of compassion or whatever, maybethere is really heart change
here this time.
And I will tell you,unfortunately that's not what we
(08:03):
often see.
We often see it being part ofthe overall coercion and control
.
And truly heart change is morethan behavior modification.
It's more than the person beingnice to you.
Some of the time it's reallythis person having a true
character change, understandinghow they have hurt you and
(08:23):
making amends and repenting forit, even if it means leaving
their relationship or therelationship can't be saved.
When I'm working withdestructive men, one of the
things I say is that first youneed to be reconciled to God,
but you may have broken therelationship so badly and done
such deep harm that therelationship itself cannot be
saved.
And destructive people who arereally truly changing understand
(08:46):
that they grieve it.
Of course they grieve whatthey've done, but they also are
not trying to hold on tosomething that is something that
they broke and hurt.
They really give that otherperson the autonomy and that is
true care and kindness.
One of the things I've saidover and over to destructive
individuals I've worked with.
Is you adhering to a boundarythat your spouse set?
(09:10):
Is actually loving them?
Yes, that means you don't talkto them.
If they say don't talk to me,absolutely, it means that you
don't see them.
If they say I don't want to seeyou, and you don't complain
about it, you may be sad, it'sokay to feel sad, but what you
don't do is violate it.
And over and over and overagain, I see these destructive
individuals prioritizethemselves over their partner by
(09:33):
absolutely walking throughboundaries and not holding them
at all and then being like what?
Why can't I talk to my spouse?
Because they truly don'tunderstand the depth and level
of harm that they have caused.
And so when we see that, yeah,well, I just brought her flowers
, okay, but this person saidthey don't want to talk to you,
that they don't feel safe aroundyou, so you're dropping off
(09:55):
flowers or food or any of thoseother things, again, it's
manipulative kindness.
What is the purpose?
And the purpose is to draw themback in, right?
So here are some things thatcan help you identify when we
have a manipulative kindnesssituation.
The first one is it shows upafter the abuser has gotten in
(10:22):
trouble for something, so maybethe pastor has confronted them
or law enforcement has becomeinvolved.
A family member might have saidsomething and all of a sudden
they're super nice.
Or you got really angry and youset a boundary and all of a
sudden now they're really reallynice.
So that is one sign.
Another sign is that thebehavior goes back.
So it goes back to the way itwas, with power and control and
(10:45):
restrictions and not hearing,boundaries and that kind of
thing.
So it doesn't last.
So the kindness doesn't last.
Another sign that it ismanipulative kindness is the
harm that was caused to you isminimized.
Well, it wasn't that bad.
See, I brought you flowers, Imade you dinner, I helped with
the kids, whatever it is.
(11:06):
And so there's that hallmark ofcoercive control which is the
minimizing, denying and blaming.
So we're seeing the minimizingthere and the denying.
It wasn't that bad, even thoughyou're like man, it felt that
bad.
It felt that bad.
Right, it also might come withstrings attached.
I did this, now you do that.
I was kind to you, I helpedwith the kids.
Now have sex with me, or I didthis thing for you.
(11:29):
Can't we just stop talkingabout this thing?
Look, I'm helping with the kids.
I helped you clean the kitchen.
I did the thing.
We don't need to bring up theharm again.
Right, that is a completeminimization of what it was like
to be harmed for the personthat was harmed and we should be
able to talk through things.
There should be a realrepentance and if that's not
there, then it is manipulativekindness.
It's really like let's shove itunder the rug or put a blanket
(11:49):
over the elephant that'sliterally standing in the middle
of the room so that I don'thave to take responsibility and
accountability that's anotherthing is manipulative kindness,
is a total lack ofaccountability.
It is a lack of saying I didyou harm and owning it and
really repenting of it.
And repentance is not doing itagain.
(12:09):
Manipulative kindness also showsup when you disagree hey, this
doesn't feel good, I don't wantflowers from you.
And then they get butthurt andangry and start berating you
again and the coercive controlshows right back up in full
force.
That is another sign thatmanipulative kindness is an
actual kindness.
There are strings attached.
(12:30):
That is another sign thatmanipulative kindness is an
actual kindness.
There are strings attached.
That is another sign of it.
When it's like again, tit fortat.
Relationships are nottransactional.
We treat each other wellbecause it's right and good and
because we see the other personas an image bearer of the living
God and not to get something.
If it is I did this for you,now you do this for me then
(12:50):
there are strings attached.
It's not a free gift, it's notloving and it's not real
repentance.
So how do we know when somebodyis really being kind and it's
not just coming with anexpectation or harm that follows
right after it?
Well, first of all, it'sconsistent over time.
It's the general vibe of howpeople treat you.
(13:11):
They are kind as a rule.
They're not manufacturing it.
They're not all of a suddenlove bombing you because they
messed up in some way.
It's just generally how youtreat somebody.
So if your spouse regularlybrings you flowers just because
they love you and they careabout you, if they actually
repent and aren't trying to fixit by doing things or giving you
(13:35):
things, they are genuinelybroken over harm that was caused
.
And look, we are all going tohurt each other's feelings every
now and again.
We're going to say things,we're going to say something
mean.
It's not a pattern of power andcontrol.
We're not trying to take theother person's personhood, we
just had a really bad day and werepent for it, we go, I'm
really sorry, and we don't do itagain.
It's not our way of being, itwas truly a one-off.
(13:58):
That is a sign that there'sreal kindness.
There there's anacknowledgement of oh my gosh, I
really hurt you and I'm sosorry, and they really care
about your feelings.
They let you fully express them.
There's not excuse making.
None of that stuff shows up.
There's also consistency.
(14:22):
Again, this is their way ofbeing.
Power and control is not, andthat is a huge difference and
your body will feel it.
Your body absolutely can feelit and register it when it is
not manipulative kindness, andit can when it is.
This doesn't feel genuine is agood sign that you have a
problem.
Or, like gosh man, this doesseem to be genuine.
They are doing this over time.
It is a long period of timethat we have right.
(14:45):
So I'm not into short-termbehavioral modification.
This is heart change.
How is the posture of theirheart toward you?
And that will tell you if it'sreally kind.
Also, there's mutual respect.
No one's putting you in aone-down position.
No one is lording anything overyou.
It is mutually respectful Ifthose things aren't present.
(15:05):
Respectful.
If those things aren't present,then the kindness is probably
not genuine.
If it is long periods of powerand control and occasional care
and kindness, then it'sdefinitely not genuine If it
doesn't come with change inother places.
So let's say there was a blow-up, there was a big fight, maybe
(15:25):
the person kept you from leavingthe room and you're like, oh my
goodness.
And they're like, oh yeah,sorry, sorry, that'll never
happen again, whatever you know,and you're like, hey, here are
other areas of the relationshipwe need to work on, like I need
to see our finances, I need tohave visibility, and they're
like nope, nope, nope, andthere's power and control still
in the relationship.
Then we still have a problem.
That's not real change, it'snot how it works and that is
(15:47):
really important stuff.
You want to look at the wholeconstellation of the
relationship and I know how hardit is.
I know how hard it is when youare so desperate for love and
care.
We need that, we legitimatelyneed that.
And people who are coercivelycontrolling they capitalize on
our very real need for belonging, for care, for kindness.
(16:09):
They capitalize on that to keepyou controlled.
That is so outside of the realmof who God is in our lives and
how he treats us, that the onlything I can say is that is
patently unbiblical to betreated in a coercively
controlling way.
You know I get how tricky ittruly can be to understand
(16:31):
whether or not this ismanipulative kindness.
Is it real heart change andgood manipulators honestly like?
I'm just going to be straightwith you they make it real
tricky because they aren't clearat all on it and they want
again to pull you back intotheir web.
The goal is control.
It is power over you, becauseto them you are a couch that can
talk.
You are an object.
(16:52):
You are not an image bearer ofthe living God, and I hate to
say that, especially when you'relike but at least those moments
of kindness feel good, and ofcourse they do.
When you feel trapped and yourcaptor is giving you kindness,
it's going to feel good.
And that makes it moreconfusing, especially if you
care about them, especially ifyou have kids with them.
(17:12):
It is really, really difficult.
Now if you're listening to thisweek's episode and going oh
goodness, I have a name forwhat's happening and I don't
love it, what do I do?
I want to encourage you.
Reach out for help.
You can absolutely reach outfor help.
There are ministries like Callto Peace Ministries that will
(17:33):
help you.
You can reach out to atherapist who understands
domestic abuse and coercivecontrol, who will help you and
you can get some support.
You can reach out to atherapist who understands
domestic abuse and coercivecontrol, who will help you and
you can get some support.
You can tell a trusted friendand really do be careful.
In-laws are not your trustedfriend.
I know that you may have a goodrelationship with them, but
(17:54):
sometimes blood is thicker thanwater and I have seen clients
say I thought I could trust mymother-in-law or my
sister-in-law or whatnot andcome to find out that when it
came down to brass tacks, theywere going to be loyal to the
abuser.
So just really be mindful andcareful.
Sometimes going outside of yourimmediate circle is actually
the best first step.
So that's why I do recommendministries like Call to Peace or
(18:17):
Leslie Vernick's Conquer isalso really helpful.
So any of those places areplaces that you can start to
disentangle some of this.
Also, great therapy, again withsomeone who understands
domestic abuse and coercivecontrol can help you disentangle
it and wrestle through what ishappening in your relationship
and in your life.
Kindness should not come withstrings.
(18:38):
Your life Kindness should notcome with strings.
Kindness should be a gift thatwe give, because people are
fellow image bearers of theliving God, and it is right and
good.
And when your heart is trulyfollowing the Lord, you are
marked by kindness and not bycontrol.
The life of a decent humanreally, truly, is more kindness
than anything else, and youdon't have to prove your worth
(19:01):
or value.
You are treated as an imagebearer of the living God.
You are treated with care, withkindness, with respect.
Your opinion matters and peoplegive you good things or do good
things for you, not to getsomething from you, but
genuinely because they careabout you.
It is not tit for tat.
Healthy relationships are nottransactional.
(19:22):
When we talk abouttransactional relationships,
that's I pay a plumber to comein and do things right.
That's a transactionalrelationship.
I'm not going to go toChristmas with them, with my
spouse.
It is not transactional at all.
That's not how healthyrelationships work.
If you really want to look at agood book as well that talks
about healthy marriage, Idefinitely commend Sheila Ray
(19:45):
Gregoire's book that she wrotewith her husband called the
Marriage you Want, and I'll linkall these resources in the show
notes.
I'm really glad that you werehere with me today.
If you are realizing oh mygoodness, what happened this is
manipulative kindness and I havetotally been getting snowed by
this person Reach out for help.
Find a good therapist.
(20:05):
Reach out to a ministry.
Tell somebody that's safe andget help, because you do deserve
so much better.
And if you are sitting theregoing oh my goodness, gracious,
I really need to tell a friendabout this.
This absolutely looks liketheir relationship.
Send the podcast to them, sendthem a link, say hey, you got to
listen to this.
Make sure that you like andsubscribe and follow us on all
(20:26):
the socials and follow ourYouTube channel, and we'll see
you again next time.
Thanks for joining me fortoday's episode of hey Tabby.
If you're looking for aresource that I mentioned in the
show and you want to check outthe show notes, head on over to
tabithawestbrookcom forwardslash hey Tabby.
That's H-E-Y-T-A-B-I and youcan grab it there.
(20:49):
I look forward to seeing younext time.
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