December 5, 2025 • 25 mins
Hi Pod...Where Ya Been?
James Guttman returns after a long break to reset the show and refocus on honest stories about autism and respect. We dig into myths around RPM, the “you don’t look autistic” trope, and why dignity beats spectacle every time.
• why the format shift matters and keeping it ad-free
• curiosity vs offense when asking about autism
• why “you don’t look autistic” misses the point
• RPM’s (Rapid Prompting Method) place, limits, and consent
• the barbecue incident and speaking for someone
• pushing back on “nonverbal understands everything”
• rejecting telepathy myths and miracle promises
• dignity over content and never filming meltdowns
• parents as experts on their own children
• how we’ll handle topics and questions going forward
Check it out, HiBlogImDad.com every Monday, every Wednesday
Every Friday, new HiPodImDad.com
It's Here! Get the book – “Hi World, I’m Dad: How Fathers Can Journey to Autism Awareness, Acceptance, and Appreciation” on audio, digital, or print.
Follow Us On TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.
Also, be sure to read the blog that started it all - Hi Blog! I'm Dad.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
James Guttman (00:51):
Hi Pod, it's James Guttman, and how are you
guys doing?
Where you been?
I've been waiting for you.
I've been like right, likeright over there.
And I'm like, where iseverybody?
And if you don't know what I'mtalking about, it's because I
have not done a new podcastsince August the 29th of this
year, which is the longestlayoff we've had since starting
this back in 2019.
It has been, God, six years,constant, just uh a barrage of
(01:15):
these podcasts.
And I love doing them.
Here's the thing for anybodywondering why it's been such a
long layoff, I will explain itto you why.
Um I love doing this.
It is fun, it is, I don't wantto say easy, but simple to do.
It's like when I used to do thewrestling before this in my
past life.
I would do wrestling audioupdates, I called them, because
there was no podcast yet.
And I loved it because I wouldjust pick up a microphone and
(01:37):
just start talking.
I'm I'm long-winded, I saystuff, I just go, go, go, go,
go.
Uh, and then we kind of altereda little bit and it became a
video podcast, and there wasvideo for it and things like
that.
And it's great.
And I am recording this onvideo.
I just don't know how much ofthe video I'm using, and I'll
tell you why.
Because one of the problemsthat I ran into was I like doing
this, it's easy to do, it's funto do.
(01:59):
But I would then turn aroundand have to make sure that on
the video I was looking at thevideo and I was talking to the
camera, and I looked all right,and then I would see something,
and the microphone was taped.
I had two microphones.
It was a whole shebang, and itbecame, I don't know, not fun.
And sometimes when things don'tbecome fun anymore, we stop
(02:20):
doing them.
And I don't know if you guysrealize this, but
highblogomdad.com doesn't haveads on it.
There's no ads.
Every once in a while, someonewill send me something to use
for Lucas.
In fact, um, I forgot, I forgotthe name of the company, so I'm
not gonna call him out now.
But they had sent me over ablanket sleeper for him to wear.
I've been waiting for thewinter.
He's gonna wear it.
If it's great, I'll tell youguys about it.
That happens once in a while,but I don't sell ad space.
(02:41):
I don't have people write guestcolumns for money and things
like that.
I like to keep this thing pureand I like to do it because I
enjoy it.
I get Lucas's message out and Itell people about how great he
is, but by the same token, Idon't want it to feel like work.
Um, it's not work.
It's my life, it's my passion,it's what I love to do.
And the podcast, when I startedadding and adding to it and
(03:01):
adding to it, it felt like work.
So we started the cartoon.
We were doing hi-toon on dad,and that was fun.
Um, I still am probably gonnado more of those.
That was one of those thingswhere even if um nobody watched
it, I was still gonna do it.
And people did watch it.
It's we found new life onTikTok.
Do me a favor, follow meeverywhere: Instagram, Facebook,
uh, TikTok threads.
(03:22):
Hi, James Guttman.
Hi, H I James Guttman, not hi,James, come on, not hi, James
Guttman.
Um, and I love it.
I love getting to do it, I lovegetting to share our story with
people, and that's kind of whyI took some time off.
And on top of it, you may haveheard at the top of the show, we
have a brand new uh intro song.
Love it.
That was the goal for so long.
I'm like, I'm gonna do an introsong for HiPod, a new one,
(03:44):
because we've been doing thesame one pretty much for again
five, six years, and it was timeto mix it up.
So I appreciate your patience.
I appreciate you guys comingback and uh finding me and
checking it out.
It means a lot to me.
And some of the video from thisshow is gonna be online, maybe
all of it.
I don't know how much I'm gonnado, but I definitely like
(04:04):
sharing, I don't know, sharingmy life with you guys, sharing
what we do and getting to talkabout, you know, the blog and
the podcast.
Um, I am going to, one of thethings that I do want to do with
the podcast, if we are going tocontinue it like this, is I
want to have real subjects thatpeople ask about, things that
people might want to know about.
Up until now, towards the end,I was kind of just going over
(04:25):
the blog again.
I'd write a blog, you know, 10reasons why my son is great.
And then I'd be like, hey guys,let me tell you 10 reasons.
It's like you read thatalready.
So I want to mix it up a littlebit.
Do me a favor, though, checkout the blog, hiblogimdad.com.
It's all on there.
Pick up the book.
It's this book, Hi World I'mDad.
It is how fathers can journeyfrom autism, awareness to
acceptance to appreciation.
(04:46):
That is available freakingeverywhere.
Everywhere.
You can get it on uh digital,you can get it on audio, you can
get it on um, I don't know,street corners, you can get it.
The audio book, too.
One of the things that I loveabout it, it's on Spotify, it's
on Audible.
So if you have a premiumSpotify account, you can listen
to High World on Dad.
In fact, a lot of the cartoonsI've been making are based on
(05:08):
the book, too.
I love it.
Um yeah, it's been a reallygreat year, and it's been a lot
of interesting things happening.
So when I sat down and I wantedto do the new podcast for you
guys, I'm thinking, what can Italk about?
And I wanted to tell you guys astory and share some things
with you.
So the theme here today isthings you can say to annoy uh
(05:28):
an autism parent.
That's it.
And there are things you cansay.
Now, I'm one of these people, Idon't really get offended,
right?
If you come to me from a placewhere you're trying to
understand my son when you'retrying to, you know, know more
about autism, I want to sharethat with you.
And if you come to merespectfully in a way where I
don't feel like it's gawking orbizarre, I'll answer anything.
(05:50):
Even if it does come off thatway sometimes, I think to
myself, look, and look, I'mgonna be frank with you guys,
lay it on the table.
I'm gonna be dead one day.
And you know what?
Spoiler alert, you're gonna bedead one day.
And when I'm gone, Lucas has tolive in this world, hopefully.
I mean, every parent, you wantto die before your kids.
So, Lucas, best case scenariois I leave my son behind on this
(06:10):
planet.
And uh, and Lucas doesn'tspeak.
So my goal has always been toexplain him in a way that people
can understand him.
ChatGPT actually told me thatthat was my fear, and that's why
I do this.
Thank you, ChatGPT, for beingin my head.
Um yeah, that I'm I live inworry that my son is not gonna
be understood.
(06:31):
It's one of those things thatyou ask ChatGPT, tell me
something about myself that Idon't know.
And it lays it out for you,you're gonna die and leave your
kid, and you want to make surepeople know.
And I'm just like, ChatGPT.
Um, but yeah, it's true.
You know, my son has to be onthis planet without me,
hopefully, one day.
And I want people to know himand understand him.
So if you come to me and youask about him, if you ask how he
(06:53):
sees the world, I'm gonna tellyou how he sees the world.
And I will tell you this a lotof people are so ready to be
offended, right?
I don't get offended by a lotof stuff.
And people will come to me andprepare me for something that I
think is gonna be offensive.
And they will literally come tome and go, Listen, I don't want
to offend you.
Okay, I don't want to offendyou.
I want to can I ask yousomething about your son?
(07:17):
And now I'm ready.
I'm like, oh my God, here wego.
He's nonverbal, he has autism,they're gonna say something
offensive.
And they'll be like, I'll belike, yeah, sure.
And they'll be like, "D oes helike cookies?" Yeah, yeah, he
likes cookies.
Okay, thank you.
That's it, that's what you'regonna ask me.
It's usually such an innocuous,um, non-offensive thing that
(07:40):
they ask.
And what's funny is that Ithink sometimes as auntism
parents, we're so prepared forit to be an offensive statement
that our guard is up right offthe bat.
Can I ask you about your son?
Not right now, please.
You know what I mean?
Like, but I don't we don't dothat.
And if you don't do that, Ithink you'll be surprised.
I have rarely, rarely, if ever,come across somebody who has
(08:02):
said something offensive aboutmy son.
That's almost never happened.
So yeah, let people ask youquestions.
You should, why not?
There are ways to offendpeople, right?
And I've had people do that.
Oh, you know, and and peoplewho are higher functioning, they
know the phrases that they get.
People say stuff like, oh, youdon't look like you have autism,
which is the stupidest thing inthe world.
(08:23):
I don't, I don't know what thatlooks like.
What is that?
I don't know what that lookslike.
I've met people with autism,and like, I mean, when you talk
to them or you get to know them,something like, oh, okay, I get
this.
But by sight, no, man.
I, you know, as you guys know,I went to Jubilee uh two years
ago to speak about autism.
And there I met Abby uh fromLove on the Spectrum, I met
Aiden Boyer from um AmericanIdol.
(08:46):
And these people, they theythere's no look.
They're people, and they'rewonderful people.
In fact, part of the reason Iwrote the book and I do this
blog is to point out theappreciation that there is for
somebody who does have autism.
So to say to somebody you don'tlook like you have autism,
that's not even an insult.
Like, you'd be lucky to looklike you have autism, you'd be
(09:06):
lucky to be a person like that,a caring, kind, nice person.
So I don't think maybe that'sthe difference.
Maybe I don't get offended atthings that I should, maybe a
little bit.
I don't know.
Um, but let me tell you astory.
Let me tell you about a time Iwas offended, and I'll tell you
a surefire way to offend anautism parent.
And it's something that I hate,and it's come up other times
besides this.
(09:27):
And it's when somebody whodoesn't know Lucas or just met
Lucas wants to tell me somethingabout him as if they've
discovered something about myboy, right?
They'll come over.
I remember one time, like Lucaswill rub his head, he'll meet
somebody, he'll be touching hishead.
Oh, I think I think he wants totell you that his his head's
hurting.
I'm like, no, man, he's justthat's what he does.
(09:48):
Like, I live with him.
He doesn't know, no, I thinkhis head hurts.
No, it doesn't hurt.
I know what it is, I know whathe's doing.
I know I spend more time withthis kid than anybody.
I know I've figured it out, andit's great.
So sometimes I think there isan arrogance of somebody new
showing up, and all of a suddenthey think they've cracked the
code and they're gonna tell meall these things about my son I
(10:08):
didn't know.
Um, does it come from a goodplace?
I don't know.
Some people maybe.
Some people are just like,that's how they are.
Well, let me tell you anoffensive story.
Okay.
So I knew somebody who didsomething called RPM.
Do you guys know what RPM is?
Um, RPM is a uh a system thatthey do for kids who are on the
(10:30):
autism spectrum, right?
And the idea behind RPM, I'mlooking it up so I can tell you
exactly what it stands for,because I think that's
important.
Um, one of the things aboutRPM, which is uh rapid prompting
method, right?
Now anybody who has kids withautism knows what prompting is.
And Lucas does pecs, and uhyou're able to prompt him to do
(10:50):
certain things, he can respondto certain things.
What RPM is, is somebody sitsnext to somebody with autism and
they hold up a sheet that hasletters on it.
And the person who's eithernonverbal, minimally verbal,
they will point to each letteron the sheet and spell
something.
I think, now keep in mind, I'mgonna explain this to you.
I think this is a great systemfor a person with autism who is
(11:14):
minimally verbal or nonverbal,who can spell or who knows
words, or understands thingslike that.
It only makes sense, right?
Like Lucas has a device, Lucashas used PECs, which is when he
picks up pictures and things.
So if he can identify picturesand point to them when he wants
something, if he knew how tospell, he'd be able to point to
the letters and do that too.
I get it.
I think it's a skill, I thinkit's important, I think it's
helpful.
(11:34):
Uh, it comes under firesometimes because the people who
uh, you know, uh have theseclasses, the teacher is
involved, I'm losing words here.
The people who hold up the, youknow, the sheets of paper for
the people with autism to touch,they hold it exclusively.
So the idea has always been,oh, they move it around a little
bit, they make them pick it.
I don't know.
All I know is this my sondoesn't know letters.
(11:56):
I know this for a fact.
I know Lucas better thananybody.
Lucas struggles with that.
At one point, I know they weretrying to teach him the letter L
for his name.
He might identify it.
I've never seen it happen.
Uh, there's definitely thingsthat he doesn't know to
identify.
Lucas can't spell.
Lucas can't identify lettersyet.
Something we'll work on.
And I know this because I workwith his education team.
You know, it's not the kind ofthing where, you know, Lucas can
(12:19):
spell, and then they ask him todo it at school, and in his
head, he's like, I'm not gonnashow these people I spell.
No, he can't spell.
So I was invited to a umbarbecue by somebody for RPM.
And we get there, and Lucas issitting at a table and he's
eating food.
Now keep in mind, the personwho brought me, their son was
(12:40):
minimally verbal.
Their son could spell.
And I would say, this is greatfor him.
Like he can do this.
The things that you're tellingme he's doing, it's amazing and
it's great, and he could spellhello and all these wonderful
things.
My son doesn't spell.
Doesn't know.
Maybe if he was in an RPM classfor a year, two years, they
taught him that.
I get it.
There's a place for it.
But it's not the kind of thingthat you do the very first day.
(13:03):
So we're at the barbecue, myson is sitting at the table and
he's eating.
And this woman walks in with asheet and she looks at me and
she goes, Is he a speller?
Is he a speller?
And I'm like, well, he doesn'tknow how to spell.
She's like, But does he do likeI'm like, no.
And as he's eating, she takesthe sheet, she puts it in his
face.
And my son, who I know so well,wants it out of his face.
(13:24):
So he goes to like push it andshe's moving it around in his
hand as he's trying to push itout of the way.
And she's maneuvering him.
She's like, H-E-L-L-O.
Hello, Lucas.
And then she looks at me andshe goes.
That's a smirk if you guys areon audio.
And she walks away.
And I remember being veryturned off by this.
(13:45):
I don't like Lucas being aprop.
I don't like Lucas.
I don't like people speakingfor him.
I don't like them pretending.
Um, no offense if you arelistening to this and you write
a blog and your child isnonverbal and you narrate them
in their voice, don't do that.
I don't like to do that either.
That kind of turns me off.
He's a person, he's a humanbeing.
He's not, you know, a pet, he'snot a prop, he's not, he
(14:08):
deserves respect.
And uh pretending that he'sdoing something he's not is not
respectful.
You wouldn't do that to anybodyif you have a and I sometimes
have to explain this to peoplebecause they don't have somebody
with autism in their lives, butthey have family in their
lives.
If your grandmother, somebodyin your family gets sick and
they're in the hospital and theycan't respond, do you want
somebody going out there andlike animating them and like
(14:30):
like, oh, oh, she's thinkingthis?
No, you don't, because they'renot.
Like, you don't want somebodyclaiming to know what they're
thinking.
My son is a person, my son isum conscious, my son is aware of
his surroundings.
He doesn't need you to talk forhim.
Doesn't need you to talk forhim.
If that was the end of it, itwould be sufficient.
That was not the end of it.
(14:51):
And here's the thing thatoffended me because I still
wasn't even offended.
I got it.
You're trying to sell yourclasses, lady.
I understand.
Her partner, the other personwho runs the RPM, is talking to
me at the end of the barbecue.
And she says to me, she goes,you know, he should be a
speller.
I go, well, he doesn't, youknow, I don't I don't know if
that would be something that hewould do, you know, if he would
(15:14):
understand.
And she goes, nonverbal peopleunderstand everything, every
single thing you say.
And I went, I don't agree withthat.
I said, because my son is 14,and verbal 14-year-olds don't
understand everything I say.
Like they understand thingsthat a 14-year-old understands.
I was 14.
There were jokes I didn't getat 14 that I had to wait till I
grew up.
(15:35):
There's words I didn'tunderstand, concepts, ideas.
It's this catch-all.
Like it's not one or the other,where it's, you know, obviously
I don't want people to think,oh, he doesn't know anything,
because he does know things.
But don't tell me he knowseverything.
He's a human being.
He's not an alien, he's notsome sort of, you know, distinct
thing.
He's a person, he's a14-year-old boy.
So I go, he, you know, I don'tunderstand how that could be.
(15:56):
You know, a 14-year-old who isverbal, doesn't understand every
single thing.
And, you know, we're going backand forth on it, and she's
talking about it.
And I go, well, look, at theend of the day, now I'm trying
to be diplomatic, right?
I don't want to be like,listen, your thing is nonsense.
Because it's not nonsense.
I thought that there wasdefinitely a place for this or
whatever.
And I was like, look, I don'the doesn't know how to spell.
Um like, and I think that's theproblem.
If he knew how to spell, Iwould get it.
(16:17):
And this woman looks at me andsays, Oh, he understands much
more than you realize.
Do you know how long this womanknew my son?
Zero minutes.
She hadn't met him yet.
She didn't know who I was.
I could be a doctor, I couldbe, um, you know, I mean, I'm
(16:38):
not gonna be, I'm an autismblogger, or whatever it is.
Like, I could be somebody withknowledge in this.
Like, who are you to tell methat?
And I think the thing thatbothers me, and this is the
thing, and it plays into, youknow, products that they sell
parents like me.
There is this understandingthat someone in my position
would be desperate for my son totalk.
Luckily, I'm hippy-dippy.
(17:00):
I had heart surgery, I am Mr.
Lai, hey, you know, um, so I'mnot like crying and trying to
get him to say words.
But there are parents who are.
And there was a time where Iwas, when Lucas was little.
Again, I wrote about it on theblog this week about, you know,
suspecting that he was sayingwords when he wasn't, because I
was so desperate.
For my son not to talk was afailure on my part.
(17:21):
And then to have this womanwho's selling a program come to
me and tell me, oh, he can dothis.
He'll talk to you tomorrow.
And if you don't believe it,it's because you don't realize
all he can do.
I do.
I've never met him, but I knoweverybody and I know that he can
do it.
Oh my god, it turned me off.
Made me angry.
And um, I don't know, itbothered me.
(17:43):
And there's things evensurrounding this that kind of
bother me.
And I'm gonna say one moretime, and if you do RPM, look, I
again, I'm not ripping on whatyou do.
I think as a skill and as aconcept, it is fantastic.
If my son was leafing throughbooks, if school said, Oh, he
can point to letters, I would dothis in a second.
It makes sense.
Why wouldn't you do this?
(18:04):
But here's the other thing Idon't like, and it's something
else that people have told me,and I've been told by other
people outside of even the RPMcommunity.
Sometimes they talk aboutthings they don't know, right?
Like, and I've heard that whenI was there.
Like a kid will be will bepointing and spelling things
that they're not aware of, thatthey're not involved in.
And you go, how does he knowabout like his dead
(18:24):
grandparents?
And they go, he's telepathic.
I kid you not, man.
If you are not an autismparent, you don't know about
this.
If you are an autism parent,you have heard about this.
You might believe in it.
Again, I am diplomatic.
So I will say to you, my kid'snot telepathic.
Maybe your kid is.
I don't know.
I don't know your kid.
Your kid might be, you know,crest skin for all I know.
(18:46):
I have no idea.
Lucas is not telepathic, and Iwill tell you why.
We have had plenty of timeswhere I've asked him to hand me
something in his room and ittakes 15 minutes.
And that allows me to know thathe doesn't understand the thing
that I'm asking him to get.
But he also can't read my mindand get it.
Lucas doesn't read my mind.
If he read my mind, half thecrap that leads me to be like,
oh my God, Lucas, what did youdo?
(19:06):
It wouldn't happen, right?
But the other part of that thatI really don't like is that
Lucas doesn't need to betelepathic to be special.
Lucas doesn't need to be asuperhero.
Lucas doesn't need to doanything other than be Lucas.
He doesn't have to catch atouchdown, Lucas doesn't have to
be prom king because you guyswant a virtue signal and elect
(19:27):
him prom king.
People with autism just have tobe themselves.
Somebody like Lucas just has tobe an example for the world to
see what it's like, to step outand just be.
My son is himself more thananybody else I've ever met.
If he likes something, he lovesit.
(19:48):
If he loves it, he shows you.
If he's upset, he cries.
If he's happy, he cheers.
If he's tired, he lays down andjust goes to sleep.
I've talked about this beforetoo.
When he was little and wedidn't think he understood most
things, we would have peopleover for parties and stuff, and
he'd be gone.
Like, where's Lucas?
And he would be in his room.
He would tuck himself in withhis head on the pillow and go to
(20:11):
sleep.
This is at a time where wedidn't think he understood
anything around him, and hewould do stuff like that.
Lucas is just himself.
Um, and he doesn't need tospell, he doesn't need to be
telepathic.
And if you want a surefire wayto annoy an autism parent, tell
them that they don't know theirkid the way someone else does.
Tell them, no, you don't getit.
(20:31):
You don't get it.
Trust me, there's gonna be somepeople who are gonna break down
and grow, what can I do?
I get that.
And those are new parents, Iunderstand.
But at a certain point, man,I've been with Lucas since he
was a baby, man.
He was born.
He's 14, 14 years.
I've been with this kid.
I know who he is.
And I don't want a strangercoming up to me telling me who
he is.
I know who he is.
And that's it.
(20:52):
So if you want to offend me,don't ask about cookies.
That's cool.
Don't ask me questions, that'scool too.
It's not about askingquestions, it's about telling me
things.
Don't tell me things about myson in a way that implies that
you know him better than I do.
Because trust me, youabsolutely don't.
Even if you're an autismexpert, you're not an expert on
my kid with autism.
I am.
I'm not an autism expert.
(21:12):
That's why none of my blogs areadvice checklists for you.
I'll never turn around and belike, this is what you need to
do.
If you want your kid to put hisshoes on, you have to do this
and this.
I'll tell you what we did.
You read it, you know your kid.
If you think to yourself, oh,you know, Bobby could do what
Lucas does, if he does it thisway, then do it.
But if you read it and you go,this isn't gonna work for my
(21:34):
kid, then don't take the advice.
Just read the story, getsomething from it, feel good
about it.
But yeah, I don't know your kidbetter than you do.
You don't know my kid betterthan I do.
Um and I don't know, man.
Sometimes that stuff has to besaid.
And this is my superpower,right?
I'll tell you guys mysuperpower before we go here
today.
And I've talked about this withpeople too.
Um, I said before, don'tnarrate your kid and don't act a
(21:55):
certain way.
Because I get upset about someof these.
And we'll talk about it inupcoming weeks, like the people
who like to frustrate theirchild on purpose, their
nonverbal children, and thenrecord them reacting in an angry
way.
I saw this one video.
I mean, we'll go into it, man.
This woman, her kid wanted togo to Applebee's, and she just
stood there and he's like, andthis poor kid, he's like,
Applebee's?
And she's like, No Applebee's.
(22:16):
And then I watch, he's like,and she tenses up and he grabs
her head and it's beingrecorded.
And it's like, lady, what didyou expect if he was verbal,
like 15-year-old, and he wantedto go somewhere, and you're
like, no.
And then you stare, what's hegonna do?
He's gonna get mad.
So what does your kid do whenhe gets mad?
He reacts because he doesn'thave the words or the ability or
the frustration levels to beable to handle it.
(22:37):
So you antagonize him and yourecord it and you put it online.
Hate it.
Hate it.
But you know what?
I have a nonverbal child withsevere autism.
So my superpower is that I getto call that out.
I get to be one of the peoplewho gets to say it.
Whereas most people who don'thave that in their lives, they
go, Oh, that doesn't feel right,but like, I don't know, it's
(23:00):
just, you know, poor lady.
I don't say poor lady.
I say, what are you doing?
Poor kid.
Listen to him.
Help him.
Don't make him a spectacle.
You have never seen a video ofmy son melting down.
Never.
Not just because I haven'tposted it online, because I
don't have any.
I don't record it when he does.
(23:20):
And as time has gone on, thereare less chances to do so
because he doesn't melt down.
And I think part of the reasonwhy is because I don't make him
the show.
If Lucas is upset, I consolehim.
The camera gets put down, I sitwith him and he feels better.
I would never set up a camera,purposely deny him something so
I could show you how tough mylife is.
(23:43):
Doesn't make any sense.
Um, yeah.
And that's also it for me,guys.
This has been a great return.
I am really happy to be backhere on high pod.
We're gonna do more of these.
I got video going for this, sohopefully, I don't know, maybe
I'll put the video up.
We'll figure it out.
Um, but I appreciate it, andI've missed you very, very much.
So thank you so much for takingthe time to listen.
Check it out, hiblogimdad.comevery Monday, every Wednesday.
(24:05):
I am there doing brand newblogs.
Every Friday, newHiPodimdad.com.
We'll have uh all the audios upthere.
If you go there, you can checkout all of our archives back to
2019, Spotify, Audible, whereveryou get podcasts, you can find
this podcast.
Same place you can find thebook, same place you could find,
I don't know, wonderful things.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to listen.
I appreciate it.
(24:25):
I will be back next week.
Until next time, this is JamesGuttman saying, Bye pod.
I'm Dad.
Hi Pod, it's James Guttman, and how are you
guys doing?
Where you been?
I've been waiting for you.
I've been like right, likeright over there.
And I'm like, where iseverybody?
And if you don't know what I'mtalking about, it's because I
have not done a new podcastsince August the 29th of this
year, which is the longestlayoff we've had since starting
this back in 2019.
It has been, God, six years,constant, just uh a barrage of
(01:15):
these podcasts.
And I love doing them.
Here's the thing for anybodywondering why it's been such a
long layoff, I will explain itto you why.
Um I love doing this.
It is fun, it is, I don't wantto say easy, but simple to do.
It's like when I used to do thewrestling before this in my
past life.
I would do wrestling audioupdates, I called them, because
there was no podcast yet.
And I loved it because I wouldjust pick up a microphone and
(01:37):
just start talking.
I'm I'm long-winded, I saystuff, I just go, go, go, go,
go.
Uh, and then we kind of altereda little bit and it became a
video podcast, and there wasvideo for it and things like
that.
And it's great.
And I am recording this onvideo.
I just don't know how much ofthe video I'm using, and I'll
tell you why.
Because one of the problemsthat I ran into was I like doing
this, it's easy to do, it's funto do.
(01:59):
But I would then turn aroundand have to make sure that on
the video I was looking at thevideo and I was talking to the
camera, and I looked all right,and then I would see something,
and the microphone was taped.
I had two microphones.
It was a whole shebang, and itbecame, I don't know, not fun.
And sometimes when things don'tbecome fun anymore, we stop
(02:20):
doing them.
And I don't know if you guysrealize this, but
highblogomdad.com doesn't haveads on it.
There's no ads.
Every once in a while, someonewill send me something to use
for Lucas.
In fact, um, I forgot, I forgotthe name of the company, so I'm
not gonna call him out now.
But they had sent me over ablanket sleeper for him to wear.
I've been waiting for thewinter.
He's gonna wear it.
If it's great, I'll tell youguys about it.
That happens once in a while,but I don't sell ad space.
(02:41):
I don't have people write guestcolumns for money and things
like that.
I like to keep this thing pureand I like to do it because I
enjoy it.
I get Lucas's message out and Itell people about how great he
is, but by the same token, Idon't want it to feel like work.
Um, it's not work.
It's my life, it's my passion,it's what I love to do.
And the podcast, when I startedadding and adding to it and
(03:01):
adding to it, it felt like work.
So we started the cartoon.
We were doing hi-toon on dad,and that was fun.
Um, I still am probably gonnado more of those.
That was one of those thingswhere even if um nobody watched
it, I was still gonna do it.
And people did watch it.
It's we found new life onTikTok.
Do me a favor, follow meeverywhere: Instagram, Facebook,
uh, TikTok threads.
(03:22):
Hi, James Guttman.
Hi, H I James Guttman, not hi,James, come on, not hi, James
Guttman.
Um, and I love it.
I love getting to do it, I lovegetting to share our story with
people, and that's kind of whyI took some time off.
And on top of it, you may haveheard at the top of the show, we
have a brand new uh intro song.
Love it.
That was the goal for so long.
I'm like, I'm gonna do an introsong for HiPod, a new one,
(03:44):
because we've been doing thesame one pretty much for again
five, six years, and it was timeto mix it up.
So I appreciate your patience.
I appreciate you guys comingback and uh finding me and
checking it out.
It means a lot to me.
And some of the video from thisshow is gonna be online, maybe
all of it.
I don't know how much I'm gonnado, but I definitely like
(04:04):
sharing, I don't know, sharingmy life with you guys, sharing
what we do and getting to talkabout, you know, the blog and
the podcast.
Um, I am going to, one of thethings that I do want to do with
the podcast, if we are going tocontinue it like this, is I
want to have real subjects thatpeople ask about, things that
people might want to know about.
Up until now, towards the end,I was kind of just going over
(04:25):
the blog again.
I'd write a blog, you know, 10reasons why my son is great.
And then I'd be like, hey guys,let me tell you 10 reasons.
It's like you read thatalready.
So I want to mix it up a littlebit.
Do me a favor, though, checkout the blog, hiblogimdad.com.
It's all on there.
Pick up the book.
It's this book, Hi World I'mDad.
It is how fathers can journeyfrom autism, awareness to
acceptance to appreciation.
(04:46):
That is available freakingeverywhere.
Everywhere.
You can get it on uh digital,you can get it on audio, you can
get it on um, I don't know,street corners, you can get it.
The audio book, too.
One of the things that I loveabout it, it's on Spotify, it's
on Audible.
So if you have a premiumSpotify account, you can listen
to High World on Dad.
In fact, a lot of the cartoonsI've been making are based on
(05:08):
the book, too.
I love it.
Um yeah, it's been a reallygreat year, and it's been a lot
of interesting things happening.
So when I sat down and I wantedto do the new podcast for you
guys, I'm thinking, what can Italk about?
And I wanted to tell you guys astory and share some things
with you.
So the theme here today isthings you can say to annoy uh
(05:28):
an autism parent.
That's it.
And there are things you cansay.
Now, I'm one of these people, Idon't really get offended,
right?
If you come to me from a placewhere you're trying to
understand my son when you'retrying to, you know, know more
about autism, I want to sharethat with you.
And if you come to merespectfully in a way where I
don't feel like it's gawking orbizarre, I'll answer anything.
(05:50):
Even if it does come off thatway sometimes, I think to
myself, look, and look, I'mgonna be frank with you guys,
lay it on the table.
I'm gonna be dead one day.
And you know what?
Spoiler alert, you're gonna bedead one day.
And when I'm gone, Lucas has tolive in this world, hopefully.
I mean, every parent, you wantto die before your kids.
So, Lucas, best case scenariois I leave my son behind on this
(06:10):
planet.
And uh, and Lucas doesn'tspeak.
So my goal has always been toexplain him in a way that people
can understand him.
ChatGPT actually told me thatthat was my fear, and that's why
I do this.
Thank you, ChatGPT, for beingin my head.
Um yeah, that I'm I live inworry that my son is not gonna
be understood.
(06:31):
It's one of those things thatyou ask ChatGPT, tell me
something about myself that Idon't know.
And it lays it out for you,you're gonna die and leave your
kid, and you want to make surepeople know.
And I'm just like, ChatGPT.
Um, but yeah, it's true.
You know, my son has to be onthis planet without me,
hopefully, one day.
And I want people to know himand understand him.
So if you come to me and youask about him, if you ask how he
(06:53):
sees the world, I'm gonna tellyou how he sees the world.
And I will tell you this a lotof people are so ready to be
offended, right?
I don't get offended by a lotof stuff.
And people will come to me andprepare me for something that I
think is gonna be offensive.
And they will literally come tome and go, Listen, I don't want
to offend you.
Okay, I don't want to offendyou.
I want to can I ask yousomething about your son?
(07:17):
And now I'm ready.
I'm like, oh my God, here wego.
He's nonverbal, he has autism,they're gonna say something
offensive.
And they'll be like, I'll belike, yeah, sure.
And they'll be like, "D oes helike cookies?" Yeah, yeah, he
likes cookies.
Okay, thank you.
That's it, that's what you'regonna ask me.
It's usually such an innocuous,um, non-offensive thing that
(07:40):
they ask.
And what's funny is that Ithink sometimes as auntism
parents, we're so prepared forit to be an offensive statement
that our guard is up right offthe bat.
Can I ask you about your son?
Not right now, please.
You know what I mean?
Like, but I don't we don't dothat.
And if you don't do that, Ithink you'll be surprised.
I have rarely, rarely, if ever,come across somebody who has
(08:02):
said something offensive aboutmy son.
That's almost never happened.
So yeah, let people ask youquestions.
You should, why not?
There are ways to offendpeople, right?
And I've had people do that.
Oh, you know, and and peoplewho are higher functioning, they
know the phrases that they get.
People say stuff like, oh, youdon't look like you have autism,
which is the stupidest thing inthe world.
(08:23):
I don't, I don't know what thatlooks like.
What is that?
I don't know what that lookslike.
I've met people with autism,and like, I mean, when you talk
to them or you get to know them,something like, oh, okay, I get
this.
But by sight, no, man.
I, you know, as you guys know,I went to Jubilee uh two years
ago to speak about autism.
And there I met Abby uh fromLove on the Spectrum, I met
Aiden Boyer from um AmericanIdol.
(08:46):
And these people, they theythere's no look.
They're people, and they'rewonderful people.
In fact, part of the reason Iwrote the book and I do this
blog is to point out theappreciation that there is for
somebody who does have autism.
So to say to somebody you don'tlook like you have autism,
that's not even an insult.
Like, you'd be lucky to looklike you have autism, you'd be
(09:06):
lucky to be a person like that,a caring, kind, nice person.
So I don't think maybe that'sthe difference.
Maybe I don't get offended atthings that I should, maybe a
little bit.
I don't know.
Um, but let me tell you astory.
Let me tell you about a time Iwas offended, and I'll tell you
a surefire way to offend anautism parent.
And it's something that I hate,and it's come up other times
besides this.
(09:27):
And it's when somebody whodoesn't know Lucas or just met
Lucas wants to tell me somethingabout him as if they've
discovered something about myboy, right?
They'll come over.
I remember one time, like Lucaswill rub his head, he'll meet
somebody, he'll be touching hishead.
Oh, I think I think he wants totell you that his his head's
hurting.
I'm like, no, man, he's justthat's what he does.
(09:48):
Like, I live with him.
He doesn't know, no, I thinkhis head hurts.
No, it doesn't hurt.
I know what it is, I know whathe's doing.
I know I spend more time withthis kid than anybody.
I know I've figured it out, andit's great.
So sometimes I think there isan arrogance of somebody new
showing up, and all of a suddenthey think they've cracked the
code and they're gonna tell meall these things about my son I
(10:08):
didn't know.
Um, does it come from a goodplace?
I don't know.
Some people maybe.
Some people are just like,that's how they are.
Well, let me tell you anoffensive story.
Okay.
So I knew somebody who didsomething called RPM.
Do you guys know what RPM is?
Um, RPM is a uh a system thatthey do for kids who are on the
(10:30):
autism spectrum, right?
And the idea behind RPM, I'mlooking it up so I can tell you
exactly what it stands for,because I think that's
important.
Um, one of the things aboutRPM, which is uh rapid prompting
method, right?
Now anybody who has kids withautism knows what prompting is.
And Lucas does pecs, and uhyou're able to prompt him to do
(10:50):
certain things, he can respondto certain things.
What RPM is, is somebody sitsnext to somebody with autism and
they hold up a sheet that hasletters on it.
And the person who's eithernonverbal, minimally verbal,
they will point to each letteron the sheet and spell
something.
I think, now keep in mind, I'mgonna explain this to you.
I think this is a great systemfor a person with autism who is
(11:14):
minimally verbal or nonverbal,who can spell or who knows
words, or understands thingslike that.
It only makes sense, right?
Like Lucas has a device, Lucashas used PECs, which is when he
picks up pictures and things.
So if he can identify picturesand point to them when he wants
something, if he knew how tospell, he'd be able to point to
the letters and do that too.
I get it.
I think it's a skill, I thinkit's important, I think it's
helpful.
(11:34):
Uh, it comes under firesometimes because the people who
uh, you know, uh have theseclasses, the teacher is
involved, I'm losing words here.
The people who hold up the, youknow, the sheets of paper for
the people with autism to touch,they hold it exclusively.
So the idea has always been,oh, they move it around a little
bit, they make them pick it.
I don't know.
All I know is this my sondoesn't know letters.
(11:56):
I know this for a fact.
I know Lucas better thananybody.
Lucas struggles with that.
At one point, I know they weretrying to teach him the letter L
for his name.
He might identify it.
I've never seen it happen.
Uh, there's definitely thingsthat he doesn't know to
identify.
Lucas can't spell.
Lucas can't identify lettersyet.
Something we'll work on.
And I know this because I workwith his education team.
You know, it's not the kind ofthing where, you know, Lucas can
(12:19):
spell, and then they ask him todo it at school, and in his
head, he's like, I'm not gonnashow these people I spell.
No, he can't spell.
So I was invited to a umbarbecue by somebody for RPM.
And we get there, and Lucas issitting at a table and he's
eating food.
Now keep in mind, the personwho brought me, their son was
(12:40):
minimally verbal.
Their son could spell.
And I would say, this is greatfor him.
Like he can do this.
The things that you're tellingme he's doing, it's amazing and
it's great, and he could spellhello and all these wonderful
things.
My son doesn't spell.
Doesn't know.
Maybe if he was in an RPM classfor a year, two years, they
taught him that.
I get it.
There's a place for it.
But it's not the kind of thingthat you do the very first day.
(13:03):
So we're at the barbecue, myson is sitting at the table and
he's eating.
And this woman walks in with asheet and she looks at me and
she goes, Is he a speller?
Is he a speller?
And I'm like, well, he doesn'tknow how to spell.
She's like, But does he do likeI'm like, no.
And as he's eating, she takesthe sheet, she puts it in his
face.
And my son, who I know so well,wants it out of his face.
(13:24):
So he goes to like push it andshe's moving it around in his
hand as he's trying to push itout of the way.
And she's maneuvering him.
She's like, H-E-L-L-O.
Hello, Lucas.
And then she looks at me andshe goes.
That's a smirk if you guys areon audio.
And she walks away.
And I remember being veryturned off by this.
(13:45):
I don't like Lucas being aprop.
I don't like Lucas.
I don't like people speakingfor him.
I don't like them pretending.
Um, no offense if you arelistening to this and you write
a blog and your child isnonverbal and you narrate them
in their voice, don't do that.
I don't like to do that either.
That kind of turns me off.
He's a person, he's a humanbeing.
He's not, you know, a pet, he'snot a prop, he's not, he
(14:08):
deserves respect.
And uh pretending that he'sdoing something he's not is not
respectful.
You wouldn't do that to anybodyif you have a and I sometimes
have to explain this to peoplebecause they don't have somebody
with autism in their lives, butthey have family in their
lives.
If your grandmother, somebodyin your family gets sick and
they're in the hospital and theycan't respond, do you want
somebody going out there andlike animating them and like
(14:30):
like, oh, oh, she's thinkingthis?
No, you don't, because they'renot.
Like, you don't want somebodyclaiming to know what they're
thinking.
My son is a person, my son isum conscious, my son is aware of
his surroundings.
He doesn't need you to talk forhim.
Doesn't need you to talk forhim.
If that was the end of it, itwould be sufficient.
That was not the end of it.
(14:51):
And here's the thing thatoffended me because I still
wasn't even offended.
I got it.
You're trying to sell yourclasses, lady.
I understand.
Her partner, the other personwho runs the RPM, is talking to
me at the end of the barbecue.
And she says to me, she goes,you know, he should be a
speller.
I go, well, he doesn't, youknow, I don't I don't know if
that would be something that hewould do, you know, if he would
(15:14):
understand.
And she goes, nonverbal peopleunderstand everything, every
single thing you say.
And I went, I don't agree withthat.
I said, because my son is 14,and verbal 14-year-olds don't
understand everything I say.
Like they understand thingsthat a 14-year-old understands.
I was 14.
There were jokes I didn't getat 14 that I had to wait till I
grew up.
(15:35):
There's words I didn'tunderstand, concepts, ideas.
It's this catch-all.
Like it's not one or the other,where it's, you know, obviously
I don't want people to think,oh, he doesn't know anything,
because he does know things.
But don't tell me he knowseverything.
He's a human being.
He's not an alien, he's notsome sort of, you know, distinct
thing.
He's a person, he's a14-year-old boy.
So I go, he, you know, I don'tunderstand how that could be.
(15:56):
You know, a 14-year-old who isverbal, doesn't understand every
single thing.
And, you know, we're going backand forth on it, and she's
talking about it.
And I go, well, look, at theend of the day, now I'm trying
to be diplomatic, right?
I don't want to be like,listen, your thing is nonsense.
Because it's not nonsense.
I thought that there wasdefinitely a place for this or
whatever.
And I was like, look, I don'the doesn't know how to spell.
Um like, and I think that's theproblem.
If he knew how to spell, Iwould get it.
(16:17):
And this woman looks at me andsays, Oh, he understands much
more than you realize.
Do you know how long this womanknew my son?
Zero minutes.
She hadn't met him yet.
She didn't know who I was.
I could be a doctor, I couldbe, um, you know, I mean, I'm
(16:38):
not gonna be, I'm an autismblogger, or whatever it is.
Like, I could be somebody withknowledge in this.
Like, who are you to tell methat?
And I think the thing thatbothers me, and this is the
thing, and it plays into, youknow, products that they sell
parents like me.
There is this understandingthat someone in my position
would be desperate for my son totalk.
Luckily, I'm hippy-dippy.
(17:00):
I had heart surgery, I am Mr.
Lai, hey, you know, um, so I'mnot like crying and trying to
get him to say words.
But there are parents who are.
And there was a time where Iwas, when Lucas was little.
Again, I wrote about it on theblog this week about, you know,
suspecting that he was sayingwords when he wasn't, because I
was so desperate.
For my son not to talk was afailure on my part.
(17:21):
And then to have this womanwho's selling a program come to
me and tell me, oh, he can dothis.
He'll talk to you tomorrow.
And if you don't believe it,it's because you don't realize
all he can do.
I do.
I've never met him, but I knoweverybody and I know that he can
do it.
Oh my god, it turned me off.
Made me angry.
And um, I don't know, itbothered me.
(17:43):
And there's things evensurrounding this that kind of
bother me.
And I'm gonna say one moretime, and if you do RPM, look, I
again, I'm not ripping on whatyou do.
I think as a skill and as aconcept, it is fantastic.
If my son was leafing throughbooks, if school said, Oh, he
can point to letters, I would dothis in a second.
It makes sense.
Why wouldn't you do this?
(18:04):
But here's the other thing Idon't like, and it's something
else that people have told me,and I've been told by other
people outside of even the RPMcommunity.
Sometimes they talk aboutthings they don't know, right?
Like, and I've heard that whenI was there.
Like a kid will be will bepointing and spelling things
that they're not aware of, thatthey're not involved in.
And you go, how does he knowabout like his dead
(18:24):
grandparents?
And they go, he's telepathic.
I kid you not, man.
If you are not an autismparent, you don't know about
this.
If you are an autism parent,you have heard about this.
You might believe in it.
Again, I am diplomatic.
So I will say to you, my kid'snot telepathic.
Maybe your kid is.
I don't know.
I don't know your kid.
Your kid might be, you know,crest skin for all I know.
(18:46):
I have no idea.
Lucas is not telepathic, and Iwill tell you why.
We have had plenty of timeswhere I've asked him to hand me
something in his room and ittakes 15 minutes.
And that allows me to know thathe doesn't understand the thing
that I'm asking him to get.
But he also can't read my mindand get it.
Lucas doesn't read my mind.
If he read my mind, half thecrap that leads me to be like,
oh my God, Lucas, what did youdo?
(19:06):
It wouldn't happen, right?
But the other part of that thatI really don't like is that
Lucas doesn't need to betelepathic to be special.
Lucas doesn't need to be asuperhero.
Lucas doesn't need to doanything other than be Lucas.
He doesn't have to catch atouchdown, Lucas doesn't have to
be prom king because you guyswant a virtue signal and elect
(19:27):
him prom king.
People with autism just have tobe themselves.
Somebody like Lucas just has tobe an example for the world to
see what it's like, to step outand just be.
My son is himself more thananybody else I've ever met.
If he likes something, he lovesit.
(19:48):
If he loves it, he shows you.
If he's upset, he cries.
If he's happy, he cheers.
If he's tired, he lays down andjust goes to sleep.
I've talked about this beforetoo.
When he was little and wedidn't think he understood most
things, we would have peopleover for parties and stuff, and
he'd be gone.
Like, where's Lucas?
And he would be in his room.
He would tuck himself in withhis head on the pillow and go to
(20:11):
sleep.
This is at a time where wedidn't think he understood
anything around him, and hewould do stuff like that.
Lucas is just himself.
Um, and he doesn't need tospell, he doesn't need to be
telepathic.
And if you want a surefire wayto annoy an autism parent, tell
them that they don't know theirkid the way someone else does.
Tell them, no, you don't getit.
(20:31):
You don't get it.
Trust me, there's gonna be somepeople who are gonna break down
and grow, what can I do?
I get that.
And those are new parents, Iunderstand.
But at a certain point, man,I've been with Lucas since he
was a baby, man.
He was born.
He's 14, 14 years.
I've been with this kid.
I know who he is.
And I don't want a strangercoming up to me telling me who
he is.
I know who he is.
And that's it.
(20:52):
So if you want to offend me,don't ask about cookies.
That's cool.
Don't ask me questions, that'scool too.
It's not about askingquestions, it's about telling me
things.
Don't tell me things about myson in a way that implies that
you know him better than I do.
Because trust me, youabsolutely don't.
Even if you're an autismexpert, you're not an expert on
my kid with autism.
I am.
I'm not an autism expert.
(21:12):
That's why none of my blogs areadvice checklists for you.
I'll never turn around and belike, this is what you need to
do.
If you want your kid to put hisshoes on, you have to do this
and this.
I'll tell you what we did.
You read it, you know your kid.
If you think to yourself, oh,you know, Bobby could do what
Lucas does, if he does it thisway, then do it.
But if you read it and you go,this isn't gonna work for my
(21:34):
kid, then don't take the advice.
Just read the story, getsomething from it, feel good
about it.
But yeah, I don't know your kidbetter than you do.
You don't know my kid betterthan I do.
Um and I don't know, man.
Sometimes that stuff has to besaid.
And this is my superpower,right?
I'll tell you guys mysuperpower before we go here
today.
And I've talked about this withpeople too.
Um, I said before, don'tnarrate your kid and don't act a
(21:55):
certain way.
Because I get upset about someof these.
And we'll talk about it inupcoming weeks, like the people
who like to frustrate theirchild on purpose, their
nonverbal children, and thenrecord them reacting in an angry
way.
I saw this one video.
I mean, we'll go into it, man.
This woman, her kid wanted togo to Applebee's, and she just
stood there and he's like, andthis poor kid, he's like,
Applebee's?
And she's like, No Applebee's.
(22:16):
And then I watch, he's like,and she tenses up and he grabs
her head and it's beingrecorded.
And it's like, lady, what didyou expect if he was verbal,
like 15-year-old, and he wantedto go somewhere, and you're
like, no.
And then you stare, what's hegonna do?
He's gonna get mad.
So what does your kid do whenhe gets mad?
He reacts because he doesn'thave the words or the ability or
the frustration levels to beable to handle it.
(22:37):
So you antagonize him and yourecord it and you put it online.
Hate it.
Hate it.
But you know what?
I have a nonverbal child withsevere autism.
So my superpower is that I getto call that out.
I get to be one of the peoplewho gets to say it.
Whereas most people who don'thave that in their lives, they
go, Oh, that doesn't feel right,but like, I don't know, it's
(23:00):
just, you know, poor lady.
I don't say poor lady.
I say, what are you doing?
Poor kid.
Listen to him.
Help him.
Don't make him a spectacle.
You have never seen a video ofmy son melting down.
Never.
Not just because I haven'tposted it online, because I
don't have any.
I don't record it when he does.
(23:20):
And as time has gone on, thereare less chances to do so
because he doesn't melt down.
And I think part of the reasonwhy is because I don't make him
the show.
If Lucas is upset, I consolehim.
The camera gets put down, I sitwith him and he feels better.
I would never set up a camera,purposely deny him something so
I could show you how tough mylife is.
(23:43):
Doesn't make any sense.
Um, yeah.
And that's also it for me,guys.
This has been a great return.
I am really happy to be backhere on high pod.
We're gonna do more of these.
I got video going for this, sohopefully, I don't know, maybe
I'll put the video up.
We'll figure it out.
Um, but I appreciate it, andI've missed you very, very much.
So thank you so much for takingthe time to listen.
Check it out, hiblogimdad.comevery Monday, every Wednesday.
(24:05):
I am there doing brand newblogs.
Every Friday, newHiPodimdad.com.
We'll have uh all the audios upthere.
If you go there, you can checkout all of our archives back to
2019, Spotify, Audible, whereveryou get podcasts, you can find
this podcast.
Same place you can find thebook, same place you could find,
I don't know, wonderful things.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to listen.
I appreciate it.
(24:25):
I will be back next week.
Until next time, this is JamesGuttman saying, Bye pod.
I'm Dad.
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