June 13, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode, I get to speaks with Jessica, a life and career development coach, about her journey through grief, self-discovery, and leadership. Jessica shares her experiences of losing her mother to cancer at 11 years old and how it shaped her into the empathetic leader she is today. We talk about the importance of self-awareness, the impact of saboteurs on personal growth, and the lessons learned from life's challenges. Jessica emphasizes the power of choice in how we show up in the world and encourages us all to embrace their hidden chapters as a source of strength.
Jessica's Key takeaways:
- Grief can shape us in profound ways.
- Self-awareness is key to personal growth.
- Our hardest chapters can lead to empathy and leadership.
- We all have inner saboteurs that can hinder our progress.
- It's important to embrace our hidden stories.
- Choosing how to show up is a powerful decision.
- Connection and vulnerability are essential in leadership.
- Helping others can be a path to healing ourselves.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Hidden Chapters
04:09 Self-Awareness and Personal Growth
07:03. Childhood Influences and Early Struggles
13:05. Navigating Loss and Self-Sabotage
19:01. Lessons Learned and Personal Choices
21:58. Career Journey and Coaching Philosophy
29:07 Confronting Inner Criticism
31:56. Navigating Self-Sabotage
32:24 Identifying Saboteurs
35:40 Overcoming Avoidance
38:34 The Power of Communication
41:44 Embracing Conflict for Growth
43:11. Transforming Jealousy into Motivation
50:05 Empowering Others Through Vulnerability
55:07 The Power of Personal Growth Through Adversity
57:05 Understanding and Overcoming Saboteurs
Contact Jessica:
📧 One on One Leadership Coaching: https://www.jessicawright.online/
Take your saboteur assessment: https://lnkd.in/g-WMmF2q
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 00 (00:00):
There are stories we carry that don't always get
told.
Today's guest, Jessica, losther mother at just 11 years old
to cancer.
And that early grief shaped herin ways she didn't fully
understand until years later.
Her journey took her throughbinge eating, depression, and
self-harm.
But it also led to healing,growth, and transformation.
(00:22):
She shared something with mecalled the saboteur assessment.
that honestly helped meunderstand myself better too.
It's the kind of tool thatreveals how we get in our own
way.
And for Jessica, it was a bigpart of learning to lead
differently.
In this episode, she opensabout how her hardest chapters
(00:42):
helped her become the kind ofempathetic leader she always
needed.
And now, the kind she teachesothers to be in her own
business.
So hi, Jessica.
I wanted to thank you first forcoming on for this
conversation.
So before we dive into yourhidden chapters, do you mind
starting with telling a littlebit about yourself, who you are,
(01:04):
what you do today, and whatyou're passionate about in this
season of your life right now?
Speaker 01 (01:10):
Yeah.
Hi, Genevieve and listeners.
I am so excited to be here withyou as you get started with
hidden chapters.
This is such a cool idea.
I am a life and careerdevelopment coach for new and
emerging leaders who want tobuild their confidence and
(01:30):
intentionally build theirlegacy, but also not lose their
personal life in the meantimebecause they're thinking about
work every waking hour.
And the place I always startwith folks is self-awareness,
understanding who you are, whyyou are the way you are.
Because I think that when weare able to do that for
(01:54):
ourselves, we can also supportthe people who work with us to
do that.
And we can create safe placeswhere everyone is operating at
their highest level.
And we can get a lot of reallygood work done.
And The world right now needs alot of good stuff to happen.
Speaker 00 (02:12):
Yes, they do.
Speaker 01 (02:13):
Yeah.
Yes, they do.
Speaker 00 (02:16):
So you're a busy lady at the moment, building
your business.
Speaker 01 (02:19):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 00 (02:20):
So as I was prepping for our conversation, I finally
took the saboteur assessmentthat you shared with me.
And it hit hard.
It uncovered patterns ofbehavior that have shaped how
I've lived my life.
And so it was interesting.
My high-ranked saboteurs werepleaser and high achiever.
And honestly, it made a lot ofsense.
The pleaser in me defining myworth by how much I do for
(02:44):
others and gain acceptancethrough helping others, always
showing up, never asking formuch in return, but secretly
hoping for it back, led tofeelings of resentment, which
actually were very true.
And then the hyperachiever,dependent on constant
performance and achievement forself-respect and validation,
told me my worth was tied toperformance and productivity,
(03:06):
that I'm only as good as mylatest success.
So what I didn't realize washow much I was actually losing
myself in this process.
And it was that pressure tokeep doing, performing,
achieving, because stoppingmight mean losing my worth in
other people's eyes.
So somewhere along the way, Istarted to wonder if I stopped
performing, who am I evenreally?
So I'm in a transition phase ofmy life right now where my
(03:30):
roles and responsibilities areshifting.
My daughters are becoming moreindependent and I'm no longer
living in that militarylifestyle.
So I'm questioning who I amoutside of these roles.
And so it made me think, as oneof my friends recently
mentioned to me, that you'rebuilding what you need.
So I started thinking today,especially after I took that, is
maybe the creation of mypodcast, Hidden Chapters, is a
(03:53):
way for me to rediscover myselfand create space for other
people to share their own untoldstories.
And it's a really greatinvitation for myself and my
audience to stop performing forvalidation and instead embrace
the parts of ourselves we'vehidden away.
So I'm finding a new way toshow up with depth and with
(04:13):
healing.
And all of us sharing theseparts of ourselves that we've
tucked away are just asimportant as the ones that we
lead with.
And it's not just aboutachieving or pleasing.
It's about truly connecting towho we are beneath all the
layers.
So Jessica, I think that'sexciting.
Why I've had you come on theshow is I know you've shared
(04:35):
your voice in many podcasts, butWhat you've shared with me,
it's clear you've done some deepwork around the parts of your
own story that usually aren'tseen.
So I'd love to start there andthen just ask you, there were
some powerful early chaptersthat shaped who you are today.
So can you take us back to yourchildhood for a bit and what
did life look like for you inthose early years?
Speaker 01 (04:59):
Well, I don't think I can even go there before I say
how beautiful what you justshared is.
And thank you for sharing that.
I'm just so impressed that youeven took the assessment and got
that done before we met today.
It was eye-opening.
And yeah, I'm glad.
I also know it's hard to readsome of that sometimes because
(05:21):
then it's like, well, there itis.
Now I've got to do somethingwith it.
Yeah.
And so I just want to likethank you and also honor kind of
this ripping open that we dowhen we commit ourself to
personal growth and development.
Like it's hard work.
(05:41):
And so, yeah, before I can gointo my story, just I just want
to like take a moment for howbeautiful you just said is.
Speaker 00 (05:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 01 (05:50):
Yeah.
And kind of going back.
I think when we first met, Ishared with you that while there
are some sad parts to my story,I know that I wouldn't be who I
(06:10):
am today without that.
And so, yeah, my mom got sickwith cancer when I was very
young, around five or six, anddied when I was 11.
And she was sick that wholetime, that whole five or six
years.
And a lot of things happenedfor me during those formative
(06:35):
years.
I really started a tendencytowards self-harm, even at the
age of five, through a fewdifferent methods.
One of those methods was bingeeating, which even now I think
about little five-year-oldJessica binge eating, stealing
(06:57):
food.
And I just like, oh man, I justwant to hug her and let her
know that it's going to be okay.
She's going to figure it outeventually.
It's going to take a while, butshe'll figure it out.
But yeah, just, and I was anonly child and seeing my parents
go through that and my mom gothrough that really shaped how I
(07:24):
tend to show up in the world.
I also come from the Midwest, afairly religious family.
And while I no longer live inthe Midwest or follow some of
those traditions, I am benttowards the idea that you show
up and you help people as muchas you can, as often as you can.
(07:46):
And so no surprise, one of mytop saboteurs is also the
pleaser.
And I'm an Enneagram too, ifany listeners follow the
Enneagram.
But yeah, the process of my momgoing through several
surgeries, treatments,diagnoses, meant that I just
felt I had this pressure on meall the time to be good and to
(08:09):
not cause problems and to helpas much as I could.
And while none of those thingsare terrible, for a five or six
year old to really think aboutthat all the time is not
healthy.
You know, you're so young.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was so young.
I was pretty alone.
I was around a lot of adults.
(08:31):
And yeah, I also didn't feellike I fit in with kids at
school or maybe a little more atchurch.
But I just didn't fit in with alot of kids.
Like I knew these bad thingswere happening and that I life
could change at any moment andthat you can lose people.
(08:54):
And that was really hard thento just like go to school and
play and chill with my peers,you know.
So I just went to school andtried to do the best I could,
get the best grades I could sothat my Parents wouldn't be mad
at me and everyone would think Iwas smart and do the best I
(09:17):
could.
Like I wasn't very athletic,but I did participate in dance
and I tried to be the bestdancer I could.
And then I was in music and Itried to be the best musician I
could be just to not cause anyissues.
So that was a big part of thatjourney.
opening journey.
And then when my mom died, youknow, it was just my dad and I.
And he has his own strugglesand emotional issues.
(09:42):
And it was really hard for himto be at home and around me,
which, you know, isn't okay.
I also kind of understand thesource.
I think I understand the sourceanyways.
He would never talk about it,you know, but yeah.
And so then after my mom died,I really felt kind of abandoned
(10:05):
by my dad, too.
He would technically come homeevery night, but I didn't really
see him very much.
And I always knew where he was,but I had to, like...
call my grandma to get in touchwith him.
This was before cell phoneswere a thing.
And so, yeah, I felt prettyabandoned by him.
And he and I have never reallyrebounded very well from that.
(10:29):
And it's been well over 25years now.
So that is a big part of thatopening story that kind of led
me to wanting to figure out acareer journey Yeah.
Yeah.
I also don't ask for it.
(11:06):
So that's something I've reallyworked on in the last 10 years
or so.
But yeah, that's that's theopening childhood story and kind
of leads into a lot of otherthings.
Speaker 00 (11:18):
Yeah.
So you really were raisingyourself in those formative
years, those teen years.
Speaker 01 (11:24):
Yeah, it felt like that.
I mean, I had a lot of, youknow, people in our church and
my dance teacher andgrandparents who absolutely did
their best and really stepped ina lot of times.
But I was I was alone quite abit and definitely felt felt
(11:44):
that loneliness there.
I can understand that.
Yeah.
Speaker 00 (12:09):
And so mentioning that you lost your mom at 11,
almost 12, that was a lot ofwhere the self-sabotaging voices
and inner doubt came through.
So now in your personal lifeand in your business, how have
those inner doubts andsabotaging voices shown up for
you?
Speaker 01 (12:27):
Yeah, I think my mom was probably...
just the best cheerleader thatyou could ever ask for yeah and
so my voice is gonna get alittle shaky here um when she
(12:49):
passed away um I had a reallyhard time learning how to do
that for myself yeah and um As a12 year old who had been binge
eating at this point for sevenyears and trying to harm
themselves in other ways, I wasalso pretty socially awkward
(13:15):
because, like I said before,like I was just very aware that
bad things could happen.
It just social experienceslike.
school and, you know, gettinginvolved in extracurriculars
(13:37):
just didn't, it didn't work forme.
I just, I wasn't very good atconnecting with people.
And yet connection was what Iwanted so much.
And so I think that thatself-sabotage or the sabotaging
(13:58):
voices around my confidence andlike, no one wants to be around
you.
You're too weird.
You're too fat.
You're too, you know, just likeall those things have really
been going off in my head fordecades.
And I found success in highschool as a musician, as a
(14:21):
dancer.
Even though I was bigger, I wasstill great at dancing because
I could do it.
I could figure out how to do itperfectly.
I could nail everything.
I could learn everything reallywell.
So perfectionism is alsoanother thing for me.
If I do it perfectly, then theywon't make fun of me.
That was kind of how thatsabotage showed up for me.
So yeah, it's definitely beenan influence as I...
(14:47):
Got an undergraduate degree inmusic education, decided I
didn't want to teach and kind ofstarted to wind through adult
life, trying to find a way to behelpful and make money at the
same time and also find apartner.
(15:07):
And, you know, all of thesethings, it's been challenging at
times for sure.
Yeah.
And yet at the same time, Iknow...
that when people tell me thatI'm such a warm person to be
around and that I'm superempathetic and they can tell I'm
listening or that they feelseen and heard by me, I know it
(15:31):
all stems back to that becausethat's what I wanted.
Speaker 00 (15:35):
Right.
You're building what youwanted.
Yep.
Showing people what you wanted.
I relate to that so much.
Yeah.
I appreciate you sharing that.
So what are...
some of the biggest takeaways,your biggest lessons that you've
learned through all theseturning points in your life that
you hope others can take awaywith them today?
Speaker 01 (15:56):
Yeah.
I don't think anyone needs tohave it all figured out right
now.
I think that there's a lot ofbeauty and growth in being able
(16:18):
to understand how things are atthe moment and also think about
how you want to intentionallyshow up to any situation,
whether that be a relationship,a work situation, a friendship,
(16:38):
whatever.
Yeah.
I think understanding that youcan make a choice And have
something be different, havesomething be better is a really
powerful understanding to have.
And one that I wish and that'ssomething that I wish I had
realized a lot earlier.
(16:59):
I used to I mentioned thatvictim saboteur.
I used to think, well, badthings just happened to me like
they have since I was young.
So that's just how it's goingto be.
And, you know, I'll figure itout.
But yeah.
I'm not surprised.
And certainly, I believe thatthere are a lot of us who have
(17:22):
more privilege than others.
And a lot of us maybe have theopportunity to have more and
better choices.
But I do fundamentally believethat every person always has a
choice about how they're goingto show up and what attitude
(17:43):
they're going to have.
So yeah, that's what I work ona lot with my leaders,
especially during times likethese where it's really hard to
know during changingcircumstances how their mission
is going to change and evolve.
(18:05):
hopefully evolve, definitelychange.
And that's what we go back towith mindset all of the time.
You always have a choice abouthow you show up and how you make
people feel.
Or not even, maybe not how youmake people feel because that's
a little bit on them too, butthe love, I guess, that you
(18:26):
extend to them and the supportthat you extend to them.
You always have a choice ofwhat you can do in that
situation.
Yeah.
Speaker 00 (18:35):
So you've worn a lot of hats that have led you to
where you are now.
You've done a lot of deep diveand shape the work you do now.
So can you tell me a little bitabout your business and how
that kind of weaved into to whatyou're doing now?
Speaker 01 (18:51):
Yeah, for sure.
Like I said, I started out witha bachelor's in music education
and I've never actually taughtmusic aside from some private
lessons.
But I
Speaker 00 (19:00):
think it's interesting.
We all have a different we allstart with a major, but that we
never necessarily go back to it.
Speaker 01 (19:06):
Also, like side campaign.
Can we stop making 18 year oldspick a major?
Yeah.
Oh, gosh.
If I could make anythinghappen.
Well, maybe not anything, butthat would be one of the top 10,
I think.
Yeah.
Poor 18-year-old Jessica.
She thought she wanted to be aband director and live in Ohio
forever.
And by 26, she was like, oh,gosh.
(19:30):
Yeah.
Yeah, that ain't it.
Speaker 00 (19:33):
I thought I wanted to be a journalist back then.
Just travel the world doingfluff news going.
I'm in Belgium eating Belgianwaffles.
I had no plans of gettingmarried.
I had no plans of having kids.
I just wanted to run away andtravel.
Speaker 01 (19:45):
I love that.
I love that.
I mean, maybe maybe retirementcareer for you there.
Yeah.
If we're honest, though, it'sall about the waffles, though.
It was about eating all thefoods in all the places.
I love that.
Yeah.
So after I finished with thatdegree, I worked in college
(20:09):
admissions event planning for afew years.
And then I...
moved to Seattle and worked ata food bank for a couple of
years.
That's where I really gotpassionate about the idea of
food justice and wanting to be aleader in that arena.
So I went to Seattle Universityand got my master's degree in
(20:29):
transformational leadership andthen couldn't find a job.
And a faith community that Iwas connected to and I really
loved needed an interim pastor.
And I did not want to be apastor at all.
But the skills they needed atthat time were a lot about
figuring out who they were andwhat they wanted.
(20:52):
And that kind of work excitesme a lot.
So I entered that interim roleand then ended up staying in the
long-term role for six years.
And as I was finishing, as Iwas getting the internal nudge
that it was time for me to moveon from that role, I started to
(21:17):
do this exercise of what I wouldlike to keep from all the jobs
I've had and what I would liketo let go from all the jobs that
I've had.
And as I made that list, Ilooked at the keep side and I
was like, that's a coach.
I had had the opportunity tohave a coach when I was in my
(21:39):
master's degree program.
They made all of us havecoaches.
either a therapist, a coach, ora spiritual advisor.
And I already had a therapist.
So I added on the coach thatthey provided to us.
Um, and she was amazing.
Um, shout out to Mary.
She's phenomenal.
Um, and so I, yeah, I had hadthat experience and I looked at
(22:04):
that list and I was like, oh mygosh, that's a coach.
That's, I think that's what Iwant to be.
That Everything that was inthere was like relationship
building and walking alongsidepeople as they...
go through difficult things orhave to make decisions and
working one on one with folks.
And, you know, it was just allthis stuff that was like, you
know, the definition of a coach.
(22:26):
So I started a 10 monthcoaching certification program
called it was thetransformational coaching
program.
I really love the wordtransformational, by the way.
It's both in my master's degreeand my coaching certification.
I did that for 10 months.
just an absolutelylife-changing experience.
And then I went out on my own.
I left that pastor role andstarted my business.
(22:47):
And I've jumped around a littlebit in who specifically I help,
which is funny because mydegree and all of my interest is
in good leadership.
And Yet I felt too intimidated.
I felt such imposter syndromeabout coaching leaders.
(23:10):
I was like, well, I haven't Ihaven't.
been a leader in a corporatesetting or I haven't done this
or I haven't done that, youknow, sabotaging voices.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
And so I started out as likegeneral life coach and then I
went to career coach and andfinally I was like and I had
started my podcast, IllustratingLeadership, where I invite
(23:32):
people to share about the bestexample of leadership they've
ever had.
I did that before I calledmyself a leadership coach.
And so I finally about a yearago was just like, Jess, why
aren't you coaching leaders?
This is so silly.
Why are you not doing this?
So I really did, I had to dosome work around that with my
(23:53):
own sabotaging voices andfinally realized that Maybe
where I saw the need and couldshine the most was with these
new and emerging leaders,because we have a decent amount
of support for the folks who arealready at the top or even
mid-level leaders.
(24:13):
I see a lot of support forthem, which is great.
Like we all need support alongour journey.
Like I'm not saying thereshouldn't be support for them,
but I didn't see a lot of peoplesaying, hey, new person or
person that maybe isn't even aleader yet, but really aspires
to be.
Let me walk alongside you.
Let me be your co-leader, yourconfidant, your cheerleader.
(24:34):
And let's get you doing all thegood in the world that you want
to do.
Man, once I had that, like,very clear vision, everything
inside of me was just like, yes,let's go.
Not only can you do this, butthis is so needed.
And, you know, after this lastNovember, I was like...
(24:57):
What the world needs now.
Cue the song.
We need love and we also needgood leaders.
Right.
And I coach leaders.
So gosh darn it.
That is what I'm going to do.
And so, yeah, I've just beenlike really loving this shift
for me.
And yeah.
Learning about the PQ work,which is what the saboteur
(25:20):
assessment stems from, has beensuch a great tool for these
leaders and really anyone who weall have those sabotaging
voices like we all have thisjudgmental presence.
in our head that just wheneverand I think it presents
differently for different peoplein different ways but it's
(25:41):
always there sometimes we'remore judging of others sometimes
we're more judging of ourselvessometimes we're more judgmental
of the of the circumstances butwe all have this these inner
voices that tell us we can't forsome reason or we shouldn't or
it's going to be too hard orwhatever and Learning how to
(26:03):
intercept that voice before ithijacks you and turn it into
something that's more helpfuland can actually help you be
more innovative and creative andkinder, both to yourself and
others.
Why not do that?
Like, that's such a powerfulthing.
(26:24):
And so I love that you startedout this podcast with just from
taking the assessment.
Yeah.
what that triggered for you,because you're going to have
that in your mind now.
The next time you're editing apodcast and, you know, you're
going nuts over the crackle ofthe voices or in between or
(26:48):
whatever it is, you're going tobe like, OK, high achiever.
Right.
Thank you for, you know,helping me put out a good
podcast.
However, we're going to go adifferent way here.
You know, we're going to trysomething else.
So now you have the languagefor starting to intercept that
(27:14):
voice before it hijacks you.
And no one hears the podcastepisode that is, you know, going
to be life changing forsomeone.
Speaker 00 (27:23):
Well, I found it really interesting.
Like you said, we all deal withit in different ways.
So before even really learningall this stuff, there was
moments where I was deep.
in two weeks of justself-sabotage in my head.
How do I get those out of myhead?
How do I stop beating myself upverbally with all these things?
Because that's where I was at acouple of weeks ago, really
(27:43):
just talking down on myself thatI couldn't do this or whatever
the doubt.
So I'm just interested becauseyou are so passionate about
helping these emerging leaders.
How do you get through and howhave you been able to pick
yourself up And knowing what youknow, how are you able to talk
yourself through there to keepyourself out of those deep holes
(28:04):
that we all can get into?
Speaker 01 (28:07):
Yeah.
Well, I'll share a couple of mytop saboteurs right now because
they can change.
Right.
Life changes.
Circumstances change.
Unknown (28:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 01 (28:18):
Right now some of my top saboteurs are the
hypervigilant which is the onewho thinks about everything bad
that could ever happen and makesa plan for it and goes wild
just like yeah yeah and I thinklike that you can probably see
how that stems from my childhoodlike at any moment my mom could
(28:39):
go to the hospital or havesomething else happen or you
know how many times I woke up inthe morning and my grandma and
grandpa were at the housestaying with me because my dad
was Yeah.
And at the same time.
I still have that presence oflike anything bad could happen
(29:18):
at any time.
You know, it's just the realityof it.
And so, yeah, well,hypervigilant is is rare in its
ugly head quite a bit.
And, you know, these saboteursare really shadow sides of
gifts.
So you better believe I'mgreat.
(29:40):
I'm your girl.
If you need a plan made like.
call me.
I'm ready.
I'm ready to go.
So I'm really good at that.
And that's not a bad skill tohave.
It's just when I let that takeover every bit of my life and my
business and I just keepplanning and planning and
planning and never do anything,that it's a problem.
You know, at some point we gotto get this stuff out into the
(30:03):
world and help some people.
That's the whole point.
So another big one for me, Imentioned the pleaser already.
So it's hard for me to put outsomething.
And I also have the sticklerthe perfectionist.
So it's hard for me to put outsomething that I think isn't
good, but also might not makeeveryone happy.
(30:25):
It was really hard for me toniche down.
Part of the reason it was hardfor me to niche down to coaching
for leaders is because I reallylove just life coaching anyone.
And I can do that, but thatdoesn't really connect with
everyone.
But the most recent time I wentthrough this program, I
actually chose to focus on mynumber four saboteur at the
(30:49):
moment, which was the avoider,because I could really see.
Yeah.
And I could see how the avoiderplayed with the top three.
I could see how the avoidermade the hypervigilant stronger,
how it made the pleaserstronger, and how it made the
stickler stronger.
And I was like, I think we gotto deal with this sneaky little
(31:12):
number four guy because he'sreally egging the others on.
And that was such a huge, hugerealization for me.
And one of the top...
tips for someone who is anavoider like if you tend to
procrastinate or if you avoidconflict all of these are yeah
(31:36):
yeah hands raised all around ifyou tend to do that one of the
tips is just commit to doingsomething for 30 seconds or 5
minutes Or just take the firststep, like put that in your
(31:57):
calendar.
I'm going to write this emailfor one minute.
And when that one minute isover, I can stop if I want to.
It's OK.
I will celebrate that I wroteit for one minute and I will
move on with my life and I willnot make myself feel bad for
stopping after a minute becausethat's what's calendared in.
However, if I keep going, whichnine out of 10 times I do.
(32:21):
Right.
then we're good.
It's just for the avoider,often it's just the starting,
whether that's task related oreven conflict related.
I remember one time somethingthat my husband did really
bothered me.
And this was like on a Friday.
And I was distraught allweekend.
(32:44):
And he kept asking me, is itsomething I did?
What is going on?
Like I was like visiblydistraught.
shaken.
And it wasn't even that big ofa deal, you guys, but
Speaker 00 (32:53):
it's just, I was, I do it too.
Right.
And it's never just the onething.
It's always kind of everythingelse.
Speaker 01 (32:59):
Unfortunately.
I'm just having a moment.
Okay.
Um, but anyways, and there werea few times throughout the
weekend where I would like belike, okay, this is how I want
to start the conversation in myhead.
I'm like, this is how I want tostart the conversation.
This is what I need to address.
I had all of it worked out, butI would open my mouth and And
no words would come out.
(33:20):
I've literally never beenspeechless except for this
moment.
I was breathing in.
I was, you know, all my musicskills pushing from my diaphragm
like I was using it all and nowords would come out of my
mouth.
And this happened like three orfour times throughout the
entire weekend.
And finally, I had to writedown on a piece of paper how I
(33:45):
was going to start theconversation.
I had to write Okay, I'm readyto talk about it.
And I had it on that paper.
And I knew if I could get thatout, you know, he's really good
at communication.
So if I could just say, okay,I'm ready to talk about it, he
would be pretty helpful inleading me through talking about
(34:07):
it.
Yeah.
So I wrote that down.
And finally, on Sundayafternoon, talk about ruining a
whole weekend, Jessica.
I got it out.
I said, OK, I'm ready to talkabout it.
And then we dealt with it andit was fine.
And yeah, I cried the wholetime.
But like that doesn't matter.
I got it out.
And he's really good athandling me when I'm crying.
He can he can deal with that.
(34:28):
Yeah.
But yeah, I just like reallyneeded that first step.
And so with the avoider,figuring out the first step
relationship wise or task wiseis really helpful in overcoming
some of those avoidanttendencies.
Speaker 00 (34:47):
That is a real good advice.
Because yeah, sometimes I'm soangry or sometimes I'm just in
my feels.
It's hard for me to articulate.
So if I'm having thosediscussions with my own husband,
with kids with friends I willmost times tend to hold it in
and I won't say anything butobviously I'm bothered but I
(35:09):
just don't have a way toapproach this that it's not
going to be ending badly how amI going to say this that it's
not going to be taken in theworst light
Speaker 01 (35:17):
yeah and the assumption there is that it is
going to end badly but likethink of how many times in your
life you've dealt with somethingwith this person and And has it
ever really gone badly?
If it did go badly, why did itgo badly?
And, you know, with most of thepeople that I now have in sort
(35:42):
of my inner circle of trust, ifI'm willing to show up in an
honest and caring way, andreally do the work ahead of time
to know what's going on for meand why that's going on for me
and I can say that, those peoplehave never let me down.
(36:04):
They've never hurt me or put meoff to the side because I
needed to deal with something.
Yeah.
They never have.
I'm not saying that's everyperson in the world because I
certainly have people...
Who I don't trust with thosekinds of conversations.
Right.
But my husband, my closestfriends and having that
(36:27):
realization has also reallyhelped me to be less avoidant of
conflict.
Like conflict can actuallyreally help a relationship if
done well.
And I think I think that's thekey part is starting with.
All right.
What's really going on here forme?
What triggered this?
Why?
What am I feeling?
Why am I feeling this?
(36:48):
And also, I think there's kindof a fourth step of, I don't
know that I have the vocabularyright in this minute to express
it perfectly, but it's sort oflike asking the question, do I
need to hang on to this feeling?
Like when you list out all ofthe feelings you're feeling,
there might be a couple in therethat you're like, All right.
(37:11):
I think I can let this one go.
You know, it doesn't it doesn'tinvalidate it.
It was real.
It did its thing in the moment.
That's OK.
So, for example, sometimes withme and I experience this in the
business world a lot as I'mgrowing.
I will see another smallbusiness entrepreneur, et
(37:33):
cetera, that I'm connected withwho I love and want to see
succeed, actually succeed.
Yeah.
In a way that I haven't yet.
And I get jealous.
Here's a hidden chapter foryou, right?
I don't really love admittingthat, that I feel that way.
I think we all have that.
But I do sometimes.
Yeah.
And when that happens, it'slike surrounded by all these
(37:57):
other feelings of, again, soproud of them, so happy that
they're doing well because Ilove them and or what they're
doing.
Usually both.
And also just like there's somany other positive emotions.
And I then look at that list ofemotions I'm feeling and I'm
(38:20):
like that jealousy one.
All that is is saying like, Ihave a desire to be more.
And you know what?
I'm working on it.
I'm going to get there and I'mworking on it.
And that one I think I can letgo of for the moment.
Okay, I felt it.
(38:40):
It was almost good I felt itbecause sometimes it signals the
things that are out ofalignment for me and I can work
on that and tweak that in my ownway.
Life or business plan.
And now we can let it go.
We can show up fully supportedand happy for this other person.
(39:01):
So, yeah, sometimes we just wefeel things we can we can say,
OK, I see you.
Thanks for coming to the party.
And you can go now.
Speaker 00 (39:13):
I think that's really great, too, that you are
able to do that because a lot ofyour experiences have made you
a great leader.
So now you leading others, yourecognize a lot of those things
and you can try to help them getthrough some of the things that
you also struggle with.
And I know we all struggle withthat and especially new leaders
because I'm doing it with newleading of a podcast.
(39:34):
Right.
So how do you feel sharing yourstory could really help others
who may be going throughsomething similar?
Speaker 01 (39:42):
Yeah, I just I want the people who feel like they're
too emotional or weird to.
or have something about themthat makes them feel like
(40:03):
they're unfit to make this worlda better place, to know that
those are the things thatactually make them very fit to
make this world a better place.
And when we get rid of or whenwe intercept those hijacking
(40:23):
saboteurs, and make them workfor us in a positive way, man,
we could all be just unstoppableforces for good.
And this could be really themoment for someone to step up
(40:43):
and say, I'm gonna make adifferent choice.
I've been feeling this way anddoing this because of it, but I
can make a different choice.
And that just that's what getsme out of bed every day.
Like that gives me so much hopein these times that feel kind
of hopeless and like nothingwill change, at least not for
(41:04):
the better.
For those folks out there whofeel so overwhelmed by their
situation or their past or theirhidden chapters, it can be a
little rough and rocky gettingall of that stuff out into the
open.
I understand.
I mean, I still cry when I talkabout like some of my earlier
(41:27):
chapters I did in this podcastand it's okay.
Like it is all right.
We can, we can make differentchoices and show up as leaders
for positive change in thisworld.
And I'm just, I'm really pumpedto connect with people who are
interested in putting in thatwork.
Speaker 00 (41:49):
Yeah.
Oh, that's great advice,Jessica.
I love that.
and always what I need to hear.
I love that I'm interviewingeverybody and they're all just
giving me the best advice andit's what I need to hear as
well.
So
Speaker 01 (42:00):
that's a really solid benefit of being a podcast
host that I don't think youtalk about enough.
Like I know when I interviewpeople too, I just leave feeling
like, oh my gosh, we're goingto be okay.
It's going to be all right,folks.
Speaker 00 (42:14):
I'll get off of every podcast interview and I
will go rejoin with the familyand they're all like, how'd it
go?
And I'm like, it was sowonderful.
I don't have any words yet.
I'm still trying to process andsoak it all in.
I was like, it's what I neededto hear too.
Nice.
Speaker 01 (42:27):
Love it.
So
Speaker 00 (42:30):
Jessica, thank you so much for being here and
letting us in, not just intoyour work, but into your heart
and your history.
This was such a greatconversation.
Thank you.
Speaker 01 (42:40):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's really a privilege.
And I will make sure to linkeverything in the show notes of
where they can find you.
Yeah, definitely.
You can connect with me onLinkedIn, Jessica Wright.
And you can also go to mywebsite, JessicaWright.online.
Those are the two best placesto find me.
(43:03):
to get connected with me.
And you can find the saboteurassessment that Genevieve shared
about a little bit.
That's free.
It only takes about fiveminutes and super easy to get
started with that journey.
Speaker 00 (43:16):
Yeah.
And I was so excited about it.
I actually shared it withChris.
I told you that.
I shared it with Chris and Iwas like, hey, do this real
quick.
And he's like, how long isthis?
I said, it's like threeminutes, I promise.
Speaker 01 (43:26):
I made my husband do it too.
He hates those kinds of things,but he took it and he was like,
oh, this is actually reallygood.
And it's just so nice to knowwhat's going on in your
partner's head.
Like, isn't that what we allwant?
Yeah, figure them out.
Speaker 00 (43:43):
Thank you so much for listening to Jessica's story
today.
One thing that really resonatedwith me, and I think will
resonate with many of you, ishow our hardest chapters can
shape us into the leaders we aremeant to be.
What Jessica said really stuckwith me.
The thing that makes us feelunfit to make a difference,
those are often the very thingsthat make us fit to change the
(44:06):
world.
When we learn to interceptthose saboteurs and use them in
a positive way, we become anunstoppable force for good.
If you're curious to exploreyour own saboteurs, I've
included a link in the shownotes to take the assessment for
free.
I truly believe it can helpunlock your own path to show up
authentically, lead with empathyand making a new choice.
(44:27):
Thank you for spending timewith me and for listening to
today's story.
One that reminds us we're notalone in our mess or healing or
hidden chapters.
If you haven't already, followthe show wherever you're
listening so you never miss anepisode.
And if you enjoyed today'sconversation, please leave a
review.
Don't forget to share thisepisode with a friend who might
(44:49):
need to hear it.
You can always reach out byemail.
I'd love to hear from you orconnect through the links in the
show notes.
And you can connect withJessica through the links in the
show notes as well below theSaboteur link.
If you've got a story of yourown to share, my inbox is always
open.
Until the next chapter, keeplistening for what connects us
(45:10):
the most.
There are stories we carry that don't always get
told.
Today's guest, Jessica, losther mother at just 11 years old
to cancer.
And that early grief shaped herin ways she didn't fully
understand until years later.
Her journey took her throughbinge eating, depression, and
self-harm.
But it also led to healing,growth, and transformation.
(00:22):
She shared something with mecalled the saboteur assessment.
that honestly helped meunderstand myself better too.
It's the kind of tool thatreveals how we get in our own
way.
And for Jessica, it was a bigpart of learning to lead
differently.
In this episode, she opensabout how her hardest chapters
(00:42):
helped her become the kind ofempathetic leader she always
needed.
And now, the kind she teachesothers to be in her own
business.
So hi, Jessica.
I wanted to thank you first forcoming on for this
conversation.
So before we dive into yourhidden chapters, do you mind
starting with telling a littlebit about yourself, who you are,
(01:04):
what you do today, and whatyou're passionate about in this
season of your life right now?
Speaker 01 (01:10):
Yeah.
Hi, Genevieve and listeners.
I am so excited to be here withyou as you get started with
hidden chapters.
This is such a cool idea.
I am a life and careerdevelopment coach for new and
emerging leaders who want tobuild their confidence and
(01:30):
intentionally build theirlegacy, but also not lose their
personal life in the meantimebecause they're thinking about
work every waking hour.
And the place I always startwith folks is self-awareness,
understanding who you are, whyyou are the way you are.
Because I think that when weare able to do that for
(01:54):
ourselves, we can also supportthe people who work with us to
do that.
And we can create safe placeswhere everyone is operating at
their highest level.
And we can get a lot of reallygood work done.
And The world right now needs alot of good stuff to happen.
Speaker 00 (02:12):
Yes, they do.
Speaker 01 (02:13):
Yeah.
Yes, they do.
Speaker 00 (02:16):
So you're a busy lady at the moment, building
your business.
Speaker 01 (02:19):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 00 (02:20):
So as I was prepping for our conversation, I finally
took the saboteur assessmentthat you shared with me.
And it hit hard.
It uncovered patterns ofbehavior that have shaped how
I've lived my life.
And so it was interesting.
My high-ranked saboteurs werepleaser and high achiever.
And honestly, it made a lot ofsense.
The pleaser in me defining myworth by how much I do for
(02:44):
others and gain acceptancethrough helping others, always
showing up, never asking formuch in return, but secretly
hoping for it back, led tofeelings of resentment, which
actually were very true.
And then the hyperachiever,dependent on constant
performance and achievement forself-respect and validation,
told me my worth was tied toperformance and productivity,
(03:06):
that I'm only as good as mylatest success.
So what I didn't realize washow much I was actually losing
myself in this process.
And it was that pressure tokeep doing, performing,
achieving, because stoppingmight mean losing my worth in
other people's eyes.
So somewhere along the way, Istarted to wonder if I stopped
performing, who am I evenreally?
So I'm in a transition phase ofmy life right now where my
(03:30):
roles and responsibilities areshifting.
My daughters are becoming moreindependent and I'm no longer
living in that militarylifestyle.
So I'm questioning who I amoutside of these roles.
And so it made me think, as oneof my friends recently
mentioned to me, that you'rebuilding what you need.
So I started thinking today,especially after I took that, is
maybe the creation of mypodcast, Hidden Chapters, is a
(03:53):
way for me to rediscover myselfand create space for other
people to share their own untoldstories.
And it's a really greatinvitation for myself and my
audience to stop performing forvalidation and instead embrace
the parts of ourselves we'vehidden away.
So I'm finding a new way toshow up with depth and with
(04:13):
healing.
And all of us sharing theseparts of ourselves that we've
tucked away are just asimportant as the ones that we
lead with.
And it's not just aboutachieving or pleasing.
It's about truly connecting towho we are beneath all the
layers.
So Jessica, I think that'sexciting.
Why I've had you come on theshow is I know you've shared
(04:35):
your voice in many podcasts, butWhat you've shared with me,
it's clear you've done some deepwork around the parts of your
own story that usually aren'tseen.
So I'd love to start there andthen just ask you, there were
some powerful early chaptersthat shaped who you are today.
So can you take us back to yourchildhood for a bit and what
did life look like for you inthose early years?
Speaker 01 (04:59):
Well, I don't think I can even go there before I say
how beautiful what you justshared is.
And thank you for sharing that.
I'm just so impressed that youeven took the assessment and got
that done before we met today.
It was eye-opening.
And yeah, I'm glad.
I also know it's hard to readsome of that sometimes because
(05:21):
then it's like, well, there itis.
Now I've got to do somethingwith it.
Yeah.
And so I just want to likethank you and also honor kind of
this ripping open that we dowhen we commit ourself to
personal growth and development.
Like it's hard work.
(05:41):
And so, yeah, before I can gointo my story, just I just want
to like take a moment for howbeautiful you just said is.
Speaker 00 (05:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 01 (05:50):
Yeah.
And kind of going back.
I think when we first met, Ishared with you that while there
are some sad parts to my story,I know that I wouldn't be who I
(06:10):
am today without that.
And so, yeah, my mom got sickwith cancer when I was very
young, around five or six, anddied when I was 11.
And she was sick that wholetime, that whole five or six
years.
And a lot of things happenedfor me during those formative
(06:35):
years.
I really started a tendencytowards self-harm, even at the
age of five, through a fewdifferent methods.
One of those methods was bingeeating, which even now I think
about little five-year-oldJessica binge eating, stealing
(06:57):
food.
And I just like, oh man, I justwant to hug her and let her
know that it's going to be okay.
She's going to figure it outeventually.
It's going to take a while, butshe'll figure it out.
But yeah, just, and I was anonly child and seeing my parents
go through that and my mom gothrough that really shaped how I
(07:24):
tend to show up in the world.
I also come from the Midwest, afairly religious family.
And while I no longer live inthe Midwest or follow some of
those traditions, I am benttowards the idea that you show
up and you help people as muchas you can, as often as you can.
(07:46):
And so no surprise, one of mytop saboteurs is also the
pleaser.
And I'm an Enneagram too, ifany listeners follow the
Enneagram.
But yeah, the process of my momgoing through several
surgeries, treatments,diagnoses, meant that I just
felt I had this pressure on meall the time to be good and to
(08:09):
not cause problems and to helpas much as I could.
And while none of those thingsare terrible, for a five or six
year old to really think aboutthat all the time is not
healthy.
You know, you're so young.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was so young.
I was pretty alone.
I was around a lot of adults.
(08:31):
And yeah, I also didn't feellike I fit in with kids at
school or maybe a little more atchurch.
But I just didn't fit in with alot of kids.
Like I knew these bad thingswere happening and that I life
could change at any moment andthat you can lose people.
(08:54):
And that was really hard thento just like go to school and
play and chill with my peers,you know.
So I just went to school andtried to do the best I could,
get the best grades I could sothat my Parents wouldn't be mad
at me and everyone would think Iwas smart and do the best I
(09:17):
could.
Like I wasn't very athletic,but I did participate in dance
and I tried to be the bestdancer I could.
And then I was in music and Itried to be the best musician I
could be just to not cause anyissues.
So that was a big part of thatjourney.
opening journey.
And then when my mom died, youknow, it was just my dad and I.
And he has his own strugglesand emotional issues.
(09:42):
And it was really hard for himto be at home and around me,
which, you know, isn't okay.
I also kind of understand thesource.
I think I understand the sourceanyways.
He would never talk about it,you know, but yeah.
And so then after my mom died,I really felt kind of abandoned
(10:05):
by my dad, too.
He would technically come homeevery night, but I didn't really
see him very much.
And I always knew where he was,but I had to, like...
call my grandma to get in touchwith him.
This was before cell phoneswere a thing.
And so, yeah, I felt prettyabandoned by him.
And he and I have never reallyrebounded very well from that.
(10:29):
And it's been well over 25years now.
So that is a big part of thatopening story that kind of led
me to wanting to figure out acareer journey Yeah.
Yeah.
I also don't ask for it.
(11:06):
So that's something I've reallyworked on in the last 10 years
or so.
But yeah, that's that's theopening childhood story and kind
of leads into a lot of otherthings.
Speaker 00 (11:18):
Yeah.
So you really were raisingyourself in those formative
years, those teen years.
Speaker 01 (11:24):
Yeah, it felt like that.
I mean, I had a lot of, youknow, people in our church and
my dance teacher andgrandparents who absolutely did
their best and really stepped ina lot of times.
But I was I was alone quite abit and definitely felt felt
(11:44):
that loneliness there.
I can understand that.
Yeah.
Speaker 00 (12:09):
And so mentioning that you lost your mom at 11,
almost 12, that was a lot ofwhere the self-sabotaging voices
and inner doubt came through.
So now in your personal lifeand in your business, how have
those inner doubts andsabotaging voices shown up for
you?
Speaker 01 (12:27):
Yeah, I think my mom was probably...
just the best cheerleader thatyou could ever ask for yeah and
so my voice is gonna get alittle shaky here um when she
(12:49):
passed away um I had a reallyhard time learning how to do
that for myself yeah and um As a12 year old who had been binge
eating at this point for sevenyears and trying to harm
themselves in other ways, I wasalso pretty socially awkward
(13:15):
because, like I said before,like I was just very aware that
bad things could happen.
It just social experienceslike.
school and, you know, gettinginvolved in extracurriculars
(13:37):
just didn't, it didn't work forme.
I just, I wasn't very good atconnecting with people.
And yet connection was what Iwanted so much.
And so I think that thatself-sabotage or the sabotaging
(13:58):
voices around my confidence andlike, no one wants to be around
you.
You're too weird.
You're too fat.
You're too, you know, just likeall those things have really
been going off in my head fordecades.
And I found success in highschool as a musician, as a
(14:21):
dancer.
Even though I was bigger, I wasstill great at dancing because
I could do it.
I could figure out how to do itperfectly.
I could nail everything.
I could learn everything reallywell.
So perfectionism is alsoanother thing for me.
If I do it perfectly, then theywon't make fun of me.
That was kind of how thatsabotage showed up for me.
So yeah, it's definitely beenan influence as I...
(14:47):
Got an undergraduate degree inmusic education, decided I
didn't want to teach and kind ofstarted to wind through adult
life, trying to find a way to behelpful and make money at the
same time and also find apartner.
(15:07):
And, you know, all of thesethings, it's been challenging at
times for sure.
Yeah.
And yet at the same time, Iknow...
that when people tell me thatI'm such a warm person to be
around and that I'm superempathetic and they can tell I'm
listening or that they feelseen and heard by me, I know it
(15:31):
all stems back to that becausethat's what I wanted.
Speaker 00 (15:35):
Right.
You're building what youwanted.
Yep.
Showing people what you wanted.
I relate to that so much.
Yeah.
I appreciate you sharing that.
So what are...
some of the biggest takeaways,your biggest lessons that you've
learned through all theseturning points in your life that
you hope others can take awaywith them today?
Speaker 01 (15:56):
Yeah.
I don't think anyone needs tohave it all figured out right
now.
I think that there's a lot ofbeauty and growth in being able
(16:18):
to understand how things are atthe moment and also think about
how you want to intentionallyshow up to any situation,
whether that be a relationship,a work situation, a friendship,
(16:38):
whatever.
Yeah.
I think understanding that youcan make a choice And have
something be different, havesomething be better is a really
powerful understanding to have.
And one that I wish and that'ssomething that I wish I had
realized a lot earlier.
(16:59):
I used to I mentioned thatvictim saboteur.
I used to think, well, badthings just happened to me like
they have since I was young.
So that's just how it's goingto be.
And, you know, I'll figure itout.
But yeah.
I'm not surprised.
And certainly, I believe thatthere are a lot of us who have
(17:22):
more privilege than others.
And a lot of us maybe have theopportunity to have more and
better choices.
But I do fundamentally believethat every person always has a
choice about how they're goingto show up and what attitude
(17:43):
they're going to have.
So yeah, that's what I work ona lot with my leaders,
especially during times likethese where it's really hard to
know during changingcircumstances how their mission
is going to change and evolve.
(18:05):
hopefully evolve, definitelychange.
And that's what we go back towith mindset all of the time.
You always have a choice abouthow you show up and how you make
people feel.
Or not even, maybe not how youmake people feel because that's
a little bit on them too, butthe love, I guess, that you
(18:26):
extend to them and the supportthat you extend to them.
You always have a choice ofwhat you can do in that
situation.
Yeah.
Speaker 00 (18:35):
So you've worn a lot of hats that have led you to
where you are now.
You've done a lot of deep diveand shape the work you do now.
So can you tell me a little bitabout your business and how
that kind of weaved into to whatyou're doing now?
Speaker 01 (18:51):
Yeah, for sure.
Like I said, I started out witha bachelor's in music education
and I've never actually taughtmusic aside from some private
lessons.
But I
Speaker 00 (19:00):
think it's interesting.
We all have a different we allstart with a major, but that we
never necessarily go back to it.
Speaker 01 (19:06):
Also, like side campaign.
Can we stop making 18 year oldspick a major?
Yeah.
Oh, gosh.
If I could make anythinghappen.
Well, maybe not anything, butthat would be one of the top 10,
I think.
Yeah.
Poor 18-year-old Jessica.
She thought she wanted to be aband director and live in Ohio
forever.
And by 26, she was like, oh,gosh.
(19:30):
Yeah.
Yeah, that ain't it.
Speaker 00 (19:33):
I thought I wanted to be a journalist back then.
Just travel the world doingfluff news going.
I'm in Belgium eating Belgianwaffles.
I had no plans of gettingmarried.
I had no plans of having kids.
I just wanted to run away andtravel.
Speaker 01 (19:45):
I love that.
I love that.
I mean, maybe maybe retirementcareer for you there.
Yeah.
If we're honest, though, it'sall about the waffles, though.
It was about eating all thefoods in all the places.
I love that.
Yeah.
So after I finished with thatdegree, I worked in college
(20:09):
admissions event planning for afew years.
And then I...
moved to Seattle and worked ata food bank for a couple of
years.
That's where I really gotpassionate about the idea of
food justice and wanting to be aleader in that arena.
So I went to Seattle Universityand got my master's degree in
(20:29):
transformational leadership andthen couldn't find a job.
And a faith community that Iwas connected to and I really
loved needed an interim pastor.
And I did not want to be apastor at all.
But the skills they needed atthat time were a lot about
figuring out who they were andwhat they wanted.
(20:52):
And that kind of work excitesme a lot.
So I entered that interim roleand then ended up staying in the
long-term role for six years.
And as I was finishing, as Iwas getting the internal nudge
that it was time for me to moveon from that role, I started to
(21:17):
do this exercise of what I wouldlike to keep from all the jobs
I've had and what I would liketo let go from all the jobs that
I've had.
And as I made that list, Ilooked at the keep side and I
was like, that's a coach.
I had had the opportunity tohave a coach when I was in my
(21:39):
master's degree program.
They made all of us havecoaches.
either a therapist, a coach, ora spiritual advisor.
And I already had a therapist.
So I added on the coach thatthey provided to us.
Um, and she was amazing.
Um, shout out to Mary.
She's phenomenal.
Um, and so I, yeah, I had hadthat experience and I looked at
(22:04):
that list and I was like, oh mygosh, that's a coach.
That's, I think that's what Iwant to be.
That Everything that was inthere was like relationship
building and walking alongsidepeople as they...
go through difficult things orhave to make decisions and
working one on one with folks.
And, you know, it was just allthis stuff that was like, you
know, the definition of a coach.
(22:26):
So I started a 10 monthcoaching certification program
called it was thetransformational coaching
program.
I really love the wordtransformational, by the way.
It's both in my master's degreeand my coaching certification.
I did that for 10 months.
just an absolutelylife-changing experience.
And then I went out on my own.
I left that pastor role andstarted my business.
(22:47):
And I've jumped around a littlebit in who specifically I help,
which is funny because mydegree and all of my interest is
in good leadership.
And Yet I felt too intimidated.
I felt such imposter syndromeabout coaching leaders.
(23:10):
I was like, well, I haven't Ihaven't.
been a leader in a corporatesetting or I haven't done this
or I haven't done that, youknow, sabotaging voices.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
And so I started out as likegeneral life coach and then I
went to career coach and andfinally I was like and I had
started my podcast, IllustratingLeadership, where I invite
(23:32):
people to share about the bestexample of leadership they've
ever had.
I did that before I calledmyself a leadership coach.
And so I finally about a yearago was just like, Jess, why
aren't you coaching leaders?
This is so silly.
Why are you not doing this?
So I really did, I had to dosome work around that with my
(23:53):
own sabotaging voices andfinally realized that Maybe
where I saw the need and couldshine the most was with these
new and emerging leaders,because we have a decent amount
of support for the folks who arealready at the top or even
mid-level leaders.
(24:13):
I see a lot of support forthem, which is great.
Like we all need support alongour journey.
Like I'm not saying thereshouldn't be support for them,
but I didn't see a lot of peoplesaying, hey, new person or
person that maybe isn't even aleader yet, but really aspires
to be.
Let me walk alongside you.
Let me be your co-leader, yourconfidant, your cheerleader.
(24:34):
And let's get you doing all thegood in the world that you want
to do.
Man, once I had that, like,very clear vision, everything
inside of me was just like, yes,let's go.
Not only can you do this, butthis is so needed.
And, you know, after this lastNovember, I was like...
(24:57):
What the world needs now.
Cue the song.
We need love and we also needgood leaders.
Right.
And I coach leaders.
So gosh darn it.
That is what I'm going to do.
And so, yeah, I've just beenlike really loving this shift
for me.
And yeah.
Learning about the PQ work,which is what the saboteur
(25:20):
assessment stems from, has beensuch a great tool for these
leaders and really anyone who weall have those sabotaging
voices like we all have thisjudgmental presence.
in our head that just wheneverand I think it presents
differently for different peoplein different ways but it's
(25:41):
always there sometimes we'remore judging of others sometimes
we're more judging of ourselvessometimes we're more judgmental
of the of the circumstances butwe all have this these inner
voices that tell us we can't forsome reason or we shouldn't or
it's going to be too hard orwhatever and Learning how to
(26:03):
intercept that voice before ithijacks you and turn it into
something that's more helpfuland can actually help you be
more innovative and creative andkinder, both to yourself and
others.
Why not do that?
Like, that's such a powerfulthing.
(26:24):
And so I love that you startedout this podcast with just from
taking the assessment.
Yeah.
what that triggered for you,because you're going to have
that in your mind now.
The next time you're editing apodcast and, you know, you're
going nuts over the crackle ofthe voices or in between or
(26:48):
whatever it is, you're going tobe like, OK, high achiever.
Right.
Thank you for, you know,helping me put out a good
podcast.
However, we're going to go adifferent way here.
You know, we're going to trysomething else.
So now you have the languagefor starting to intercept that
(27:14):
voice before it hijacks you.
And no one hears the podcastepisode that is, you know, going
to be life changing forsomeone.
Speaker 00 (27:23):
Well, I found it really interesting.
Like you said, we all deal withit in different ways.
So before even really learningall this stuff, there was
moments where I was deep.
in two weeks of justself-sabotage in my head.
How do I get those out of myhead?
How do I stop beating myself upverbally with all these things?
Because that's where I was at acouple of weeks ago, really
(27:43):
just talking down on myself thatI couldn't do this or whatever
the doubt.
So I'm just interested becauseyou are so passionate about
helping these emerging leaders.
How do you get through and howhave you been able to pick
yourself up And knowing what youknow, how are you able to talk
yourself through there to keepyourself out of those deep holes
(28:04):
that we all can get into?
Speaker 01 (28:07):
Yeah.
Well, I'll share a couple of mytop saboteurs right now because
they can change.
Right.
Life changes.
Circumstances change.
Unknown (28:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 01 (28:18):
Right now some of my top saboteurs are the
hypervigilant which is the onewho thinks about everything bad
that could ever happen and makesa plan for it and goes wild
just like yeah yeah and I thinklike that you can probably see
how that stems from my childhoodlike at any moment my mom could
(28:39):
go to the hospital or havesomething else happen or you
know how many times I woke up inthe morning and my grandma and
grandpa were at the housestaying with me because my dad
was Yeah.
And at the same time.
I still have that presence oflike anything bad could happen
(29:18):
at any time.
You know, it's just the realityof it.
And so, yeah, well,hypervigilant is is rare in its
ugly head quite a bit.
And, you know, these saboteursare really shadow sides of
gifts.
So you better believe I'mgreat.
(29:40):
I'm your girl.
If you need a plan made like.
call me.
I'm ready.
I'm ready to go.
So I'm really good at that.
And that's not a bad skill tohave.
It's just when I let that takeover every bit of my life and my
business and I just keepplanning and planning and
planning and never do anything,that it's a problem.
You know, at some point we gotto get this stuff out into the
(30:03):
world and help some people.
That's the whole point.
So another big one for me, Imentioned the pleaser already.
So it's hard for me to put outsomething.
And I also have the sticklerthe perfectionist.
So it's hard for me to put outsomething that I think isn't
good, but also might not makeeveryone happy.
(30:25):
It was really hard for me toniche down.
Part of the reason it was hardfor me to niche down to coaching
for leaders is because I reallylove just life coaching anyone.
And I can do that, but thatdoesn't really connect with
everyone.
But the most recent time I wentthrough this program, I
actually chose to focus on mynumber four saboteur at the
(30:49):
moment, which was the avoider,because I could really see.
Yeah.
And I could see how the avoiderplayed with the top three.
I could see how the avoidermade the hypervigilant stronger,
how it made the pleaserstronger, and how it made the
stickler stronger.
And I was like, I think we gotto deal with this sneaky little
(31:12):
number four guy because he'sreally egging the others on.
And that was such a huge, hugerealization for me.
And one of the top...
tips for someone who is anavoider like if you tend to
procrastinate or if you avoidconflict all of these are yeah
(31:36):
yeah hands raised all around ifyou tend to do that one of the
tips is just commit to doingsomething for 30 seconds or 5
minutes Or just take the firststep, like put that in your
(31:57):
calendar.
I'm going to write this emailfor one minute.
And when that one minute isover, I can stop if I want to.
It's OK.
I will celebrate that I wroteit for one minute and I will
move on with my life and I willnot make myself feel bad for
stopping after a minute becausethat's what's calendared in.
However, if I keep going, whichnine out of 10 times I do.
(32:21):
Right.
then we're good.
It's just for the avoider,often it's just the starting,
whether that's task related oreven conflict related.
I remember one time somethingthat my husband did really
bothered me.
And this was like on a Friday.
And I was distraught allweekend.
(32:44):
And he kept asking me, is itsomething I did?
What is going on?
Like I was like visiblydistraught.
shaken.
And it wasn't even that big ofa deal, you guys, but
Speaker 00 (32:53):
it's just, I was, I do it too.
Right.
And it's never just the onething.
It's always kind of everythingelse.
Speaker 01 (32:59):
Unfortunately.
I'm just having a moment.
Okay.
Um, but anyways, and there werea few times throughout the
weekend where I would like belike, okay, this is how I want
to start the conversation in myhead.
I'm like, this is how I want tostart the conversation.
This is what I need to address.
I had all of it worked out, butI would open my mouth and And
no words would come out.
(33:20):
I've literally never beenspeechless except for this
moment.
I was breathing in.
I was, you know, all my musicskills pushing from my diaphragm
like I was using it all and nowords would come out of my
mouth.
And this happened like three orfour times throughout the
entire weekend.
And finally, I had to writedown on a piece of paper how I
(33:45):
was going to start theconversation.
I had to write Okay, I'm readyto talk about it.
And I had it on that paper.
And I knew if I could get thatout, you know, he's really good
at communication.
So if I could just say, okay,I'm ready to talk about it, he
would be pretty helpful inleading me through talking about
(34:07):
it.
Yeah.
So I wrote that down.
And finally, on Sundayafternoon, talk about ruining a
whole weekend, Jessica.
I got it out.
I said, OK, I'm ready to talkabout it.
And then we dealt with it andit was fine.
And yeah, I cried the wholetime.
But like that doesn't matter.
I got it out.
And he's really good athandling me when I'm crying.
He can he can deal with that.
(34:28):
Yeah.
But yeah, I just like reallyneeded that first step.
And so with the avoider,figuring out the first step
relationship wise or task wiseis really helpful in overcoming
some of those avoidanttendencies.
Speaker 00 (34:47):
That is a real good advice.
Because yeah, sometimes I'm soangry or sometimes I'm just in
my feels.
It's hard for me to articulate.
So if I'm having thosediscussions with my own husband,
with kids with friends I willmost times tend to hold it in
and I won't say anything butobviously I'm bothered but I
(35:09):
just don't have a way toapproach this that it's not
going to be ending badly how amI going to say this that it's
not going to be taken in theworst light
Speaker 01 (35:17):
yeah and the assumption there is that it is
going to end badly but likethink of how many times in your
life you've dealt with somethingwith this person and And has it
ever really gone badly?
If it did go badly, why did itgo badly?
And, you know, with most of thepeople that I now have in sort
(35:42):
of my inner circle of trust, ifI'm willing to show up in an
honest and caring way, andreally do the work ahead of time
to know what's going on for meand why that's going on for me
and I can say that, those peoplehave never let me down.
(36:04):
They've never hurt me or put meoff to the side because I
needed to deal with something.
Yeah.
They never have.
I'm not saying that's everyperson in the world because I
certainly have people...
Who I don't trust with thosekinds of conversations.
Right.
But my husband, my closestfriends and having that
(36:27):
realization has also reallyhelped me to be less avoidant of
conflict.
Like conflict can actuallyreally help a relationship if
done well.
And I think I think that's thekey part is starting with.
All right.
What's really going on here forme?
What triggered this?
Why?
What am I feeling?
Why am I feeling this?
(36:48):
And also, I think there's kindof a fourth step of, I don't
know that I have the vocabularyright in this minute to express
it perfectly, but it's sort oflike asking the question, do I
need to hang on to this feeling?
Like when you list out all ofthe feelings you're feeling,
there might be a couple in therethat you're like, All right.
(37:11):
I think I can let this one go.
You know, it doesn't it doesn'tinvalidate it.
It was real.
It did its thing in the moment.
That's OK.
So, for example, sometimes withme and I experience this in the
business world a lot as I'mgrowing.
I will see another smallbusiness entrepreneur, et
(37:33):
cetera, that I'm connected withwho I love and want to see
succeed, actually succeed.
Yeah.
In a way that I haven't yet.
And I get jealous.
Here's a hidden chapter foryou, right?
I don't really love admittingthat, that I feel that way.
I think we all have that.
But I do sometimes.
Yeah.
And when that happens, it'slike surrounded by all these
(37:57):
other feelings of, again, soproud of them, so happy that
they're doing well because Ilove them and or what they're
doing.
Usually both.
And also just like there's somany other positive emotions.
And I then look at that list ofemotions I'm feeling and I'm
(38:20):
like that jealousy one.
All that is is saying like, Ihave a desire to be more.
And you know what?
I'm working on it.
I'm going to get there and I'mworking on it.
And that one I think I can letgo of for the moment.
Okay, I felt it.
(38:40):
It was almost good I felt itbecause sometimes it signals the
things that are out ofalignment for me and I can work
on that and tweak that in my ownway.
Life or business plan.
And now we can let it go.
We can show up fully supportedand happy for this other person.
(39:01):
So, yeah, sometimes we just wefeel things we can we can say,
OK, I see you.
Thanks for coming to the party.
And you can go now.
Speaker 00 (39:13):
I think that's really great, too, that you are
able to do that because a lot ofyour experiences have made you
a great leader.
So now you leading others, yourecognize a lot of those things
and you can try to help them getthrough some of the things that
you also struggle with.
And I know we all struggle withthat and especially new leaders
because I'm doing it with newleading of a podcast.
(39:34):
Right.
So how do you feel sharing yourstory could really help others
who may be going throughsomething similar?
Speaker 01 (39:42):
Yeah, I just I want the people who feel like they're
too emotional or weird to.
or have something about themthat makes them feel like
(40:03):
they're unfit to make this worlda better place, to know that
those are the things thatactually make them very fit to
make this world a better place.
And when we get rid of or whenwe intercept those hijacking
(40:23):
saboteurs, and make them workfor us in a positive way, man,
we could all be just unstoppableforces for good.
And this could be really themoment for someone to step up
(40:43):
and say, I'm gonna make adifferent choice.
I've been feeling this way anddoing this because of it, but I
can make a different choice.
And that just that's what getsme out of bed every day.
Like that gives me so much hopein these times that feel kind
of hopeless and like nothingwill change, at least not for
(41:04):
the better.
For those folks out there whofeel so overwhelmed by their
situation or their past or theirhidden chapters, it can be a
little rough and rocky gettingall of that stuff out into the
open.
I understand.
I mean, I still cry when I talkabout like some of my earlier
(41:27):
chapters I did in this podcastand it's okay.
Like it is all right.
We can, we can make differentchoices and show up as leaders
for positive change in thisworld.
And I'm just, I'm really pumpedto connect with people who are
interested in putting in thatwork.
Speaker 00 (41:49):
Yeah.
Oh, that's great advice,Jessica.
I love that.
and always what I need to hear.
I love that I'm interviewingeverybody and they're all just
giving me the best advice andit's what I need to hear as
well.
So
Speaker 01 (42:00):
that's a really solid benefit of being a podcast
host that I don't think youtalk about enough.
Like I know when I interviewpeople too, I just leave feeling
like, oh my gosh, we're goingto be okay.
It's going to be all right,folks.
Speaker 00 (42:14):
I'll get off of every podcast interview and I
will go rejoin with the familyand they're all like, how'd it
go?
And I'm like, it was sowonderful.
I don't have any words yet.
I'm still trying to process andsoak it all in.
I was like, it's what I neededto hear too.
Nice.
Speaker 01 (42:27):
Love it.
So
Speaker 00 (42:30):
Jessica, thank you so much for being here and
letting us in, not just intoyour work, but into your heart
and your history.
This was such a greatconversation.
Thank you.
Speaker 01 (42:40):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's really a privilege.
And I will make sure to linkeverything in the show notes of
where they can find you.
Yeah, definitely.
You can connect with me onLinkedIn, Jessica Wright.
And you can also go to mywebsite, JessicaWright.online.
Those are the two best placesto find me.
(43:03):
to get connected with me.
And you can find the saboteurassessment that Genevieve shared
about a little bit.
That's free.
It only takes about fiveminutes and super easy to get
started with that journey.
Speaker 00 (43:16):
Yeah.
And I was so excited about it.
I actually shared it withChris.
I told you that.
I shared it with Chris and Iwas like, hey, do this real
quick.
And he's like, how long isthis?
I said, it's like threeminutes, I promise.
Speaker 01 (43:26):
I made my husband do it too.
He hates those kinds of things,but he took it and he was like,
oh, this is actually reallygood.
And it's just so nice to knowwhat's going on in your
partner's head.
Like, isn't that what we allwant?
Yeah, figure them out.
Speaker 00 (43:43):
Thank you so much for listening to Jessica's story
today.
One thing that really resonatedwith me, and I think will
resonate with many of you, ishow our hardest chapters can
shape us into the leaders we aremeant to be.
What Jessica said really stuckwith me.
The thing that makes us feelunfit to make a difference,
those are often the very thingsthat make us fit to change the
(44:06):
world.
When we learn to interceptthose saboteurs and use them in
a positive way, we become anunstoppable force for good.
If you're curious to exploreyour own saboteurs, I've
included a link in the shownotes to take the assessment for
free.
I truly believe it can helpunlock your own path to show up
authentically, lead with empathyand making a new choice.
(44:27):
Thank you for spending timewith me and for listening to
today's story.
One that reminds us we're notalone in our mess or healing or
hidden chapters.
If you haven't already, followthe show wherever you're
listening so you never miss anepisode.
And if you enjoyed today'sconversation, please leave a
review.
Don't forget to share thisepisode with a friend who might
(44:49):
need to hear it.
You can always reach out byemail.
I'd love to hear from you orconnect through the links in the
show notes.
And you can connect withJessica through the links in the
show notes as well below theSaboteur link.
If you've got a story of yourown to share, my inbox is always
open.
Until the next chapter, keeplistening for what connects us
(45:10):
the most.
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