October 27, 2020 • 34 mins
What does it mean to be a woman in tech and responsible leader today? Find out in this week's episode of High Tech - Low Code podcast, where we chat with CEO & Co-Founder of Hyve Dynamics and Founder & Chair of Tech Women Today, Cecilia Harvey, about responsible leadership in tech and through COVID-19, as well as breaking boundaries for women in the industry.
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Mario Cunha (00:21):
Hello and welcome to the high tech low code
podcast. On this episode of thepodcast, we're joined by
Caroline Nicholas as ourco-host. How are you doing,
Caroline?
Caroline Nicholas (00:30):
I am really good. There is a lovely sunny
day in London. So gloomy as itwas yesterday. Oh, yeah, I'm
doing well. Thank you.
Mario Cunha (00:37):
Oh, that's great.
And today we're discussing thetopic of women in tech. And
we're lucky enough to have asour guest speaker Cecilia
Harvey. Cecilia is a technologyexecutive author and
entrepreneur. She is the CEO andco-founder at Hyve Dynamics and
has worked with several bignames such as Morgan Stanley,
Barclays Capital, and IBMConsulting. Cecilia is an
advocate for responsible techleadership and seeks to inspire,
(00:57):
elevate and disrupt globalbusiness and communities,
founder and chair of Tech WomenToday and Ladies Lounge.
Cecilia, thank you for giving usthis opportunity to have a chat
with you. I would like to startby asking how are you doing and
give our listeners a bit of anintro about yourself?
Cecilia Harvey (01:14):
Oh, thank you so much for having me today doing
great, really fabulous. I'mCecilia, I'm, as you said, I'm
the CEO and the co-founder ofHyve Dynamics we are a sensor
technology company. It'sdefinitely a privilege to work
for such an amazing team, andhow we're just using tech to
(01:37):
solve the challenges that manyof us are facing right now, such
as during the COVID 19 pandemic.
So it makes, you know, going towork every day, definitely
fulfilling and I'm originallyfrom New York. And I've been in
the UK for 13 years nowdefinitely consider myself a
Londoner. So thank you, againfor having me.
Mario Cunha (01:58):
That's great. I would like to start by talking
about your journey. And so howdid you get where you are today?
Take us through your career pathand technology journey?
Cecilia Harvey (02:07):
Sure. What for the last 20 years, I've been
working in banking andtechnology, if you would have
told me that I would have endedup the Career Technology, I
would have told you absolutelycrazy. I'm going to be a lawyer.
And I would have never eventhought that I would do anything
related to tech. Because Ididn't think that it was cool.
(02:30):
You know, all those years agowhen I was a little girl, it's
it's funny how childhood cansort of be the blueprint for the
rest of our lives in some ways.
As soon as a little girl used toplay chairman of the board with
my Barbie dolls. And I had thisCommodore 128 computer which is
definitely ageing me if anybodyknows that.
Mario Cunha (02:50):
Oh, that's a really good thing.
Cecilia Harvey (02:53):
So I used to play with that every single day,
play with my computer and likeplaying chairman of the board of
the Barbie dolls. So I guess itwas into Cabbage Patch dolls,
but thrown in there too. So um,so yeah, I guess it was
inevitable that I'd be the CEOof a of a tech company. If you
look at it that way. I graduatedfrom Wellesley College in
(03:16):
Massachusetts in the States. Andafter I graduated, I worked in
fixed income derivativesorigination at Lehman Brothers,
I was on a trading floor. Andalthough I was on a trading
floor technology was definitelythe foundation of those
businesses, you're dealing withtrading systems, electronic
trading ecommerce data. So veryearly in my career, I really
(03:42):
learned how to thinkstrategically about technology
in order to grow a business. Andeventually, I went on to roles
where I was running global techprogrammes. Over the last 20
years, I think I've worked forevery bank you could possibly
work for, which I guess alsomakes me quite old. But in some
(04:04):
of those banks and companiesaren't even with this any
longer. But that wasn't myfault. I've held various roles
in large organisations, whichdefinitely helped to prepare me
for being an entrepreneur, beinga co founder, and running tech
as a business, being the CEO ofmarkets and Security Services
(04:27):
Technology at Citi Group. Imean, that was a massive tech
organisation of over 8000 peopleglobally, over 1000 systems,
that 50 different site over 50sites. So you also you're
working in a highly regulatedenvironment. So you're thinking
about governance and compliance,risk and controls how to be
efficient with your budget,which every business needs to
(04:49):
understand how to do and alsositting on that side and in that
role, I engage with variousvendors that work smaller tech
companies, and many large banksmake strategic investments in
technology companies. So I wasable to really see the good, the
bad, and the ugly in regards totech organisations and their
(05:13):
strategy, how they service theirclients, and really the growing
pains and the challenges thatmany of those smaller companies
can make along, go along,encountered along the way. And
then I went on to work directlywith tech startups and scale ups
and eventually becoming the CEOof Hyve. So that journey was
quite unique. But also it wasvery beneficial. Not only did I
(05:37):
have the corporate experience,but also through that experience
of engaging with tech startupsand scale ups. I understood what
worked and what didn't work interms of them receiving
investment, and being able toscale their businesses. And that
experience was priceless.
Mario Cunha (05:56):
You mentioned the working with Lehman Brothers and
other big brands. In the movies,I always imagined that working
in those environments is quitehectic, chaos, confusing. How
was it? You have to tell me?
Cecilia Harvey (06:10):
Yeah, all of the above. And I loved it.
Absolutely every single secondof it. I think that I, the
reason why I knew I wanted towork in that type of
environment, I went on a schooltrip when I was at Wellesley was
my first year and I thought, myfirst went into university, I
thought, You know what, I'mgoing to be a lawyer, I'm going
(06:30):
to go to law school after this,you know, I'd never had any
exposure to Wall Street or, orworking in investment banking.
And then my first year, I, oneof my, somebody who's still my
friend to this day, TanyaZiggler. And she was a senior,
and she was going on this tripcalled the Wall Street trip that
(06:52):
the school sponsored. And so5.30h in the morning, you know,
all these women pack on a bus,head down to Manhattan and visit
Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan andMerrill Lynch. And she said,
come along, and I thought, well,I'm just the first year and she
goes, no, just come along. Andso I went, and I saw the trading
(07:16):
floor for the first time and sawthese amazing, fierce alums. And
I thought, oh, my goodness, Iwas like, this is what I want to
do. I just love the environment.
I love the pace of it. I thoughtthey were the women that I met,
that had also went to my school,were just so fantastic and
(07:36):
inspiring. And I thought this iswhat I want to do. And I spent
the next four years preparingfor that. So absolutely loved
every single second of themadness and the the excitement
and the intensity of it all.
Mario Cunha (07:55):
I can only imagine the energy on the trading floor.
To be honest. But that's great.
Caroline Nicholas (08:01):
Very testosterone fueled.
Mario Cunha (08:03):
That's one way to put it. Yes. Okay, so has us
here in executive in technology,you have led organisations,
started numerous projects andwork with many other leaders,
having had these opportunitiesand experience how would you
describe what it means to be atech leader?
Cecilia Harvey (08:22):
Yeah, for me, especially today, being a tech
leader, you really need todemonstrate responsible
leadership. I think that thedays are the days of not being
accountable for the impact ofyour technology and the impact
of your technology on the pubare not the days of not being
(08:45):
accountable for the impact ofyour tip on over the general
public are over. The days whereyou could be hands off, as an
executive are over the dayswhere you can be silent on
social issues that are in ourthat we're challenged with today
(09:05):
are over. So and this isn't justfor technology. But I think
because technology is such afast growing industry. Because
technology has such an impactover everything that we do. In
terms of individuals,businesses, our communities. I
think that it's important thatleaders in tech are responsible
(09:27):
in terms of how they evolvetheir tech and how they lead
their teams, especially duringthese challenging times. We
can't have this what I callnaive optimism, about
technology. You need to askyourself, can my technology
potentially cause harm to thegeneral public? And if so, as an
(09:48):
organisation, what are we goingto do to make sure that we
mitigate that risk and that wedon't let that come to fruition?
Also in terms of leadership Ithink that it's not just
technically and operationallywhat you're doing in terms of
the right thing. But I thinkalso socially, the same way that
(10:10):
we, as leaders want to push thelimits in terms of what our
technology can do, we also needto push from a social impact
perspective in terms of what wecan do to contribute to
improving today's social issues.
So with that type of leadership,those are the companies that
people are going to want to workfor. Those are the companies
(10:31):
that clients are going to wantto do business with. And
ultimately, those are thecompanies that are really going
to lead in their industry.
Mario Cunha (10:42):
I see your point of view. So it's not just being the
naive, hoping for, oh, my newsoftware is going to change the
way we do. I don't know,transactions, but also okay,
what how could this impactnegatively the society and the
community where I live in?
Definitely. I see.
Caroline Nicholas (11:00):
You're taken to fact, the sort of the ethical
side of things is what we'redoing, or is what we're
producing or putting out to thepublic to customers? Ethical,
you know, is it right?
Mario Cunha (11:14):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's not just an example,
as an example. It's not justproducing an app to help during
the COVID-19. But also, okay,this app actually can allow
people to track the whereaboutsof this community. Do I really
want to allow people to knowwhere everyone is? That type of
thing? Right?
Cecilia Harvey (11:34):
Yeah, I think that you need to, to challenge
what your technology is doing. Ithink that you want to encourage
your internal teams to alsochallenge what is our tech
doing? And to think about that,what is the intention of what
we're trying to do? And also,what are the realities, because
(11:57):
you can have all of the bestintentions, but at the end of
the day, you've got to get realin terms of what can potentially
happen. And then what are youdoing in order to mitigate the
negative aspects of what cancome?
Mario Cunha (12:10):
I see, using COVID-19 as a segue for my next
question, then. So thecircumstances that we are now
due to COVID-19 mean thatorganisations have to deal with
a lot of change and uncertainty,rapid evolution in terms of
digital transformation, youthink the current situation has
(12:31):
changed what people want to seefrom a leader?
Cecilia Harvey (12:34):
I don't think that the current situation has
changed what people want to seefrom a leader, I think that
people are just going to wantthat to be something that's
necessary, rather than somethingthat's nice to have from a
leader. So people have alwayswanted their leaders to have
integrity, to be authentic, tobe empathetic, to be
(12:57):
accountable, and to be actionoriented. But these are
qualities that are really goingto be necessary, if leaders are
going to be able to navigatetheir organisation through the
turbulent times that we'reseeing today. I have an amazing
team. And I think that part ofmy job as CEO is to, just as a
(13:20):
leader in general, is to enablethem to do their best job by
removing any barriers andobstacles that come in their
way, it gets back to thatresponsible leadership and in
almost making sure that you'rein a position of service to
those that you are meant tolead. Also, I think that it's
(13:43):
not going to be about simplyleading internally, but about
also leading within the broaderindustry or the broader
community. So as a leader, whatdo you believe in? What do you
stand for? What are you notgoing to stand for? I think that
employees and the clients thatyou serve, are going to be
(14:05):
asking companies that they workfor and that they buy from, to
be more conscious. And as a techcompany at Hyve, we definitely
want to take on that role ofbeing that catalyst that really
seeks to bring togetherdifferent companies and
(14:26):
organisations to address issuesthat do impact the broader
community. When the COVID-19pandemic hit, we knew that our
centre technology could addresscertain aspects of that problem,
but we also want it to partnerand bring together other
organisations on solutions thatcould help you know, for
individuals within government,etc. So really, it will be about
(14:50):
leading not only within thecompany, but also the broader
tech community.
Mario Cunha (14:56):
It's actually a very interesting point of view.
So looking at the leader, notjust someone who ultimately we
can rely on to help us solve ourproblems, but also someone who
can mirror our core values andhelp the community. That's
actually quite interesting.
Caroline Nicholas (15:12):
Yeah, taking the COVID-19 and the current
pandemic situation. So Cecilia,can I ask how challenging has it
been to keep engaged? Youmentioned your team, you know, a
great body of a team you have,how challenging has it been to
keep engaged with people whilethey're working remotely? And
working at home? Have you seenany differences? Or has it
(15:35):
strengthened that resolve andthat engagement?
Cecilia Harvey (15:38):
I think, for us, it's definitely, it strengthened
us as a team. One, we definitelyshowed that we cared for one
another. So just in general,just making sure everybody's
okay. You know, trying tounderstand, does anybody need
anything in order to supportthis new way of working, that
(16:00):
we're dealing with right now,but also, you know, in terms of
how we deal with people externalto our immediate team, certain
vendors and suppliers that thatwe're working with, and trying
to understand how we can betterwork with them going forward.
So. So I think that the thingthat's been so important is just
an increase in the communicationamongst the team. And people
(16:23):
knowing that whatever they needto do, in order to navigate this
new way of working, and justpersonally and professionally,
also just this new way of lifethat we have, that we're going
to have their back basically,and that we're going to support
them as an organisation has beenso important and so key. And I
(16:47):
think that it's just showingthat bit of humanity during this
time that is really beensomething that's really helped
us. And I think many otherorganisations are going through
the same challenge andhopefully, applying that same
bit of humanity to their staffand teams.
Mario Cunha (17:07):
That's great. I would like to talk to you about
Tech Women Today, and maybe somecareer advices. Could you will
elaborate on what Tech WomenToday is? And what advice can
you give any women venturinginto the tech world?
Cecilia Harvey (17:21):
Yeah, Tech Women Today, you know that when I
started several years ago,there's so many great
organisations out there thatwere focused on female
entrepreneurs and women in tech.
So I didn't just want to createanother one. One of the
objectives of tech women todayis really to sustain and
(17:41):
strengthen a pipeline of womenand tech. And I wanted to start
an organisation that providedwomen with the resources that
they needed in order to besuccessful. So for Tech Women
Today, one I wanted to expandthe definition of what it meant
to be a woman in tech. It wasn'tjust for people that worked at
(18:03):
technology companies, it wasn'tjust for people that were coders
or programmers, or even peoplethat had technical roles within
any type of organisation. Butreally, it's really seeking to
understand if you if you work inart, and you work in digital,
you're a woman in tech, or ifyou work in healthcare, and
(18:27):
you're doing something relatedto social media, or engaging in
tech in some way. But you're nottechnically you don't have come
from a STEM background, you'restill a woman in tech. There's
so many different ways to thinkof how we define women in tech.
And I think once we expand thatdefinition, it will encourage
(18:48):
more women to join the industryoverall. Also tech women today's
resource that provides differenttypes of resources for non
technical female entrepreneursthat need to leverage technology
in order to grow and scale theirbusinesses. So that's another
aspect that I thought was quitedifferent that I did I there was
(19:11):
a gap that I didn't see outthere, that I thought could
really help a lot of women togrow their businesses become
entrepreneurs, become successfulentrepreneurs. And and those
women also are what I considerTech Women Today. Remember
someone told me years ago that Iwas like the Oprah of tech,
(19:34):
which I think is the greatestcompliment? Because you know
what, like, yeah, because likeOprah you know, I think it's
important to create platformsthat help to amplify the voices
of others and help people toempower themselves. So I think
(19:57):
that's what I also I tried toachieve with with Tech Women
Today is just creating theplatform that just allows people
to shine and to showcasethemselves. Tech Women Today
it's a conduit, where I'mseeking just to provide equal
access to opportunities andresources that can help women to
(20:19):
be successful. And I think thatthe most valuable aspect of the
organisation is women being aresource for each other. So
that's really something I thinkis important and something I'm
quite passionate about.
Caroline Nicholas (20:37):
When you liaise with women, they're women
in the infancy of the career,like they may have finished
college, university or their midcareer. Do you see traits and
shades of yourself in terms ofwhere you think they need to
change things? Or step thingsup? Can you correlate and, you
know, see those patterns thatyou may have fallen into early
(20:59):
in your career?
Cecilia Harvey (21:00):
Sure, sure. Oh, my gosh, history definitely
repeats itself. But I thinkthat, I think quite early in my
career, I'm similar to a lot ofpeople, I think you're just
trying to really find yourselfand to find out who you are,
what you're about, you know,your identity. And I think that,
(21:23):
I think you need to, one of thekey things that I definitely
learned along the way is thatyou need to know who you are.
And you need to be veryconfident in who you are in your
identity. Because every dayyou're going to be challenged by
people in situations that aregoing to make you question who
(21:43):
you are, and through youractions you need to firmly tell
them who you are, what you standfor, who you are, who you are
not. And then people, becausepeople are going to question
your ability, your experience,whether or not you add value,
and you've got to know who youare at the end of the day. I
(22:05):
remember, you know, there wasmany years ago, there was a
senior female MD. And, you know,I remember I thought, you know,
we didn't have the greatestrelationship. And I thought, You
know what, I'm going to meetwith her and see how we can
improve things. And I rememberher saying to me, she said,
Well, I don't see the value thatyou add. I mean, who says that?
Mario Cunha (22:29):
That's harsh.
Cecilia Harvey (22:30):
And, you know, and I thought to myself, and you
know, that needed to happen atthat point, because that's the
point about knowing who you are,because and I, you know, I
thought to myself, well, okay,I'm highly rated, my boss, who
was also her boss, at the time,thought I was doing a good job,
I was recently promoted to be onthe same management team as she
(22:53):
was on, I had a high managerperform manager effectiveness
rating for my team. So I must beadding some value if you put all
that together. So you know, Ithink, you know, the devil is a
liar. And there are those thatare going to try and tell you
lies about yourself, but youhave to have the power to choose
(23:14):
if you believe those lies. Onceyou understand that that power
lies within you. And you havethat mindset, you are going to
be unbreakable. So there's asaying that the water
surrounding the boat doesn'tsink the ship, it's the water
that gets in the boat that sinksthe ship. So if you don't let
(23:35):
those lies get in your head,it's smooth sailing.
Caroline Nicholas (23:39):
Yeah, it's amazing what you can encounter
as a woman in the workplace interms of, you know, gaslighting,
or people trying to make youquestion yourself. So you're
saying you just need to find theresolve and the strength within
yourself and push past after?
Cecilia Harvey (23:55):
Yeah, I think that was, you know, one of those
things where it's like, man, ifI knew back then what I know
now, like, if you know thatpoint when I was having that
conversation, you know, I thinkgoodness, I had it by them. But
though but you're going to bethrough those, you're going to
go through those times. Andyou've got to have you know,
that ability when somebody saysthat to you and your face be
(24:15):
like, Okay, thank you keep itmoving. And you know the truth.
You don't even have to argue youdon't have to debate it. It's
like you just feel sorry forthemselves. You just don't feel
sorry for them that they don'tknow the truth.
Mario Cunha (24:28):
Yeah, that's a good point. Don't you know that the
bad is on their side thatthey're probably just reflecting
how they feel or something likethat.
Cecilia Harvey (24:36):
Yeah, I always say you know, somebody else's
opinion of me is that nobusiness of mine.
Mario Cunha (24:41):
That's a good one.
I like that one. Still on the onthis subject, because I'm seeing
quite an interest in here. Butare you seeing any global trends
within your work on Tech WomenToday? What I mean is in terms
of areas that require more focusand attention for encouraging
women in tech?
Cecilia Harvey (25:01):
I think that, I think there's so many different
exciting areas of tech rightnow. And the you know,
definitely sort of, you know,trending areas that people
always talk about whether it becybersecurity, AI, machine
learning, anything within data,there's always going to be
different areas, I think it'sreally about just finding where
(25:24):
your interests lie. And in timeschange and evolved, things
evolve, and you know, justhaving a skill set where you can
really go from one thing toanother. So I don't think that
it's so much that, but I thinkit's more about really expanding
the definition of what it meansto be in tech, you don't have to
(25:45):
have a STEM degree, you don'thave to, you know, be a
programmer, coder. In order towork in tech, and I think it's
more about changing thatdefinition, expanding of what it
means to be in tech, and thatwill encourage more people to
(26:06):
join the technology industryfrom a diverse range of
backgrounds and degrees. Andjust from different mindsets,
which I think the industryreally needs, in terms of having
people that think the differentway, but having people from more
creative backgrounds that aren'tas as highly sort of technical,
(26:32):
in the traditional sense. Sothat is a trend that I am
definitely seeing now. And Ihope that continues.
Caroline Nicholas (26:39):
Yeah, very much. So. I mean, you mentioned
STEM, and when they're lookingfor take up on such courses, and
IT courses, it is very maledominated still. And when I did
my degree 20 odd years ago, youknow, it was 98%, male, 2%
female, you know, and the womensort of gravitate to the bit
together. And, you know, I'dlike to hope that there has been
(27:03):
some movement, you know, do yousee that movement and progress
when you talk to women in techare women about to embark in
tech?
Cecilia Harvey (27:11):
I do because I think that, I think there's
definitely been progress interms of us, not sort of boxing
people based on their genderinto pursuing certain
disciplines. So I hope that thatdefinitely continues. And
there's just more of an openmind around even though if you
(27:34):
don't have a STEM background,per se, you can still be
involved in an industry that Ithink is so dynamic, such an
amazing area to be a part of,from a career perspective, and
also something where I think youcould just continually learn and
(27:55):
continually a challenge when youyou meet so many meet so many
dynamic, interesting people. SoI hope that that definitely
continues going forward.
Caroline Nicholas (28:06):
Okay, moving on to the next topic, I really
wants to ask you about BritishVogue and your recent feature.
And for me, Vogue is a magazinethat was very much out of reach,
and not really one that I couldalign myself with. And you know,
in recent months, years, it hasbecome more diverse with Edward
Enfields work. So what's thefeedback that you've received
(28:28):
from featuring in British Vogue?
Cecilia Harvey (28:31):
Yes, I'm one I think that the writer Susan
Delaney did a fantastic job interms of just putting forth the,
you know, just a very authenticprofile on paper and just sort
of just helping me tell thatstory. Edward Enfields it cannot
(28:56):
be cannot be thanked enough formaking British Vogue, a platform
that has shown such diversity,that has shown such
significance. Since he's takenover the helm of Editor in
Chief, I think that similarly, Iwould have never have thought,
(29:23):
you know, little black girlgrowing up that I would be able
to be featured in British Vogueand to see an article. It was so
humbling, and the feedback thatwas received has been just so
(29:43):
incredible. I think that just alot of what was discussed in the
article just in terms ofchallenges that anybody goes
through within their careers.
And back to the point of, youknow, being a you know, needing
to under Stand who you are, andbeing quite firm in your
identity and an understandingthat yet, you know, challenges
(30:06):
are going to come within yourcareer, there's going to be
those moments where you're goingto think, oh, my goodness, I can
I take any more. But those arereally the defining points,
where you know, it's your timefor turnaround, and for a
comeback and to shatterceilings. So I think that it was
a story that really inspired alot of people. I think that it
(30:29):
was a story that a lot of peoplerelated to. And I think that it
showed that, you know, overall,we're all going to go through
challenges, but the winds thatare meant to stop, you are
ultimately going to push youtowards your destiny. I love
that quote, Joel Olsteen. But,um, but I think that it just
(30:52):
really demonstrated that. And itbut the feedback has been
incredible. But once again, Ithink that, you know, the a lot
of the credit goes to EdwardEmma for, and he's just an
excellent example of what somany organisations can do to
show that diversity, it's outthere, it's just a matter of do
(31:16):
you want to show it? Do you wantto create the platform for it.
But what he's done is just shownthat, you know, diversity, it's
in there, it's out there infashion. And it's so wonderful
to open up the pages and see somany stat records to see that
representation. But also, to seethe depth that a publication
(31:42):
which you know, traditionallyprobably was only thought of on
a very superficial level. And tosee that he's made it a
publication of such significanceis absolutely a credit to him.
Mario Cunha (31:59):
Unfortunately, we have to start wrapping up. But
so final thoughts. What wouldthe perfect tech culture walk
like going forward? I mean, howdo you hope the industry will
look like in 10 years time?
Cecilia Harvey (32:12):
Yeah, hopefully, it's not in 10 years time. My
views on what it should looklike with tech culture, but I
think that we're all you know, Ialmost like to think of it, you
know, we're in sort of techleadership 2.0 phase where, you
know, it's time for a new faceof technology. And when we think
(32:34):
about tech leaders and techculture, you know, what are
those personas? You know, who dothey look like? What does it
look like? I think thatdefinitely, it's having more
leaders that are truly being aforce for positive change. I
think that it's applyingtechnical resources for social
good. I think that also it'sleaders, using their platform to
(32:57):
unite communities internally andexternally. It's technology that
seeks to protect the public.
It's in it also its diversity atall levels. I think that we need
more visible examples of peoplein roles where historically, we
have not been there. I think allpeople need to see these images
(33:19):
where we are exceptional, ratherthan being an exception. And in
my view, you know, that'sreally, you know, what the,
what's that's really techculture going forward. And you
know, I hope it doesn't take 10years to get there. But I think
we're making great progress. AndI hope that we continue to see
(33:40):
this sort of new face oftechnology.
Mario Cunha (33:44):
Well, that's all we had for today. Thank you very
much, Cecilia and Caroline forbeing able to join us. I'll take
this opportunity say goodbye toeveryone that's listening and
for yourself to be able to alsosay your goodbyes on this
podcast. I really have to saythank you very much for being
able to join us.
Cecilia Harvey (34:02):
Thank you Cecilia. Thank you Caroline and
Mario, I really appreciate it.
Mario Cunha (34:07):
I thank you very much. Well, with that said, that
is all that we have for thisepisode. Thank you very much for
joining us. And please be on thelookout for next episode of high
tech local podcast, where again,we'll feature another guest and
approach another topic ofextreme importance in the tech
world. See you soon.soon
Hello and welcome to the high tech low code
podcast. On this episode of thepodcast, we're joined by
Caroline Nicholas as ourco-host. How are you doing,
Caroline?
Caroline Nicholas (00:30):
I am really good. There is a lovely sunny
day in London. So gloomy as itwas yesterday. Oh, yeah, I'm
doing well. Thank you.
Mario Cunha (00:37):
Oh, that's great.
And today we're discussing thetopic of women in tech. And
we're lucky enough to have asour guest speaker Cecilia
Harvey. Cecilia is a technologyexecutive author and
entrepreneur. She is the CEO andco-founder at Hyve Dynamics and
has worked with several bignames such as Morgan Stanley,
Barclays Capital, and IBMConsulting. Cecilia is an
advocate for responsible techleadership and seeks to inspire,
(00:57):
elevate and disrupt globalbusiness and communities,
founder and chair of Tech WomenToday and Ladies Lounge.
Cecilia, thank you for giving usthis opportunity to have a chat
with you. I would like to startby asking how are you doing and
give our listeners a bit of anintro about yourself?
Cecilia Harvey (01:14):
Oh, thank you so much for having me today doing
great, really fabulous. I'mCecilia, I'm, as you said, I'm
the CEO and the co-founder ofHyve Dynamics we are a sensor
technology company. It'sdefinitely a privilege to work
for such an amazing team, andhow we're just using tech to
(01:37):
solve the challenges that manyof us are facing right now, such
as during the COVID 19 pandemic.
So it makes, you know, going towork every day, definitely
fulfilling and I'm originallyfrom New York. And I've been in
the UK for 13 years nowdefinitely consider myself a
Londoner. So thank you, againfor having me.
Mario Cunha (01:58):
That's great. I would like to start by talking
about your journey. And so howdid you get where you are today?
Take us through your career pathand technology journey?
Cecilia Harvey (02:07):
Sure. What for the last 20 years, I've been
working in banking andtechnology, if you would have
told me that I would have endedup the Career Technology, I
would have told you absolutelycrazy. I'm going to be a lawyer.
And I would have never eventhought that I would do anything
related to tech. Because Ididn't think that it was cool.
(02:30):
You know, all those years agowhen I was a little girl, it's
it's funny how childhood cansort of be the blueprint for the
rest of our lives in some ways.
As soon as a little girl used toplay chairman of the board with
my Barbie dolls. And I had thisCommodore 128 computer which is
definitely ageing me if anybodyknows that.
Mario Cunha (02:50):
Oh, that's a really good thing.
Cecilia Harvey (02:53):
So I used to play with that every single day,
play with my computer and likeplaying chairman of the board of
the Barbie dolls. So I guess itwas into Cabbage Patch dolls,
but thrown in there too. So um,so yeah, I guess it was
inevitable that I'd be the CEOof a of a tech company. If you
look at it that way. I graduatedfrom Wellesley College in
(03:16):
Massachusetts in the States. Andafter I graduated, I worked in
fixed income derivativesorigination at Lehman Brothers,
I was on a trading floor. Andalthough I was on a trading
floor technology was definitelythe foundation of those
businesses, you're dealing withtrading systems, electronic
trading ecommerce data. So veryearly in my career, I really
(03:42):
learned how to thinkstrategically about technology
in order to grow a business. Andeventually, I went on to roles
where I was running global techprogrammes. Over the last 20
years, I think I've worked forevery bank you could possibly
work for, which I guess alsomakes me quite old. But in some
(04:04):
of those banks and companiesaren't even with this any
longer. But that wasn't myfault. I've held various roles
in large organisations, whichdefinitely helped to prepare me
for being an entrepreneur, beinga co founder, and running tech
as a business, being the CEO ofmarkets and Security Services
(04:27):
Technology at Citi Group. Imean, that was a massive tech
organisation of over 8000 peopleglobally, over 1000 systems,
that 50 different site over 50sites. So you also you're
working in a highly regulatedenvironment. So you're thinking
about governance and compliance,risk and controls how to be
efficient with your budget,which every business needs to
(04:49):
understand how to do and alsositting on that side and in that
role, I engage with variousvendors that work smaller tech
companies, and many large banksmake strategic investments in
technology companies. So I wasable to really see the good, the
bad, and the ugly in regards totech organisations and their
(05:13):
strategy, how they service theirclients, and really the growing
pains and the challenges thatmany of those smaller companies
can make along, go along,encountered along the way. And
then I went on to work directlywith tech startups and scale ups
and eventually becoming the CEOof Hyve. So that journey was
quite unique. But also it wasvery beneficial. Not only did I
(05:37):
have the corporate experience,but also through that experience
of engaging with tech startupsand scale ups. I understood what
worked and what didn't work interms of them receiving
investment, and being able toscale their businesses. And that
experience was priceless.
Mario Cunha (05:56):
You mentioned the working with Lehman Brothers and
other big brands. In the movies,I always imagined that working
in those environments is quitehectic, chaos, confusing. How
was it? You have to tell me?
Cecilia Harvey (06:10):
Yeah, all of the above. And I loved it.
Absolutely every single secondof it. I think that I, the
reason why I knew I wanted towork in that type of
environment, I went on a schooltrip when I was at Wellesley was
my first year and I thought, myfirst went into university, I
thought, You know what, I'mgoing to be a lawyer, I'm going
(06:30):
to go to law school after this,you know, I'd never had any
exposure to Wall Street or, orworking in investment banking.
And then my first year, I, oneof my, somebody who's still my
friend to this day, TanyaZiggler. And she was a senior,
and she was going on this tripcalled the Wall Street trip that
(06:52):
the school sponsored. And so5.30h in the morning, you know,
all these women pack on a bus,head down to Manhattan and visit
Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan andMerrill Lynch. And she said,
come along, and I thought, well,I'm just the first year and she
goes, no, just come along. Andso I went, and I saw the trading
(07:16):
floor for the first time and sawthese amazing, fierce alums. And
I thought, oh, my goodness, Iwas like, this is what I want to
do. I just love the environment.
I love the pace of it. I thoughtthey were the women that I met,
that had also went to my school,were just so fantastic and
(07:36):
inspiring. And I thought this iswhat I want to do. And I spent
the next four years preparingfor that. So absolutely loved
every single second of themadness and the the excitement
and the intensity of it all.
Mario Cunha (07:55):
I can only imagine the energy on the trading floor.
To be honest. But that's great.
Caroline Nicholas (08:01):
Very testosterone fueled.
Mario Cunha (08:03):
That's one way to put it. Yes. Okay, so has us
here in executive in technology,you have led organisations,
started numerous projects andwork with many other leaders,
having had these opportunitiesand experience how would you
describe what it means to be atech leader?
Cecilia Harvey (08:22):
Yeah, for me, especially today, being a tech
leader, you really need todemonstrate responsible
leadership. I think that thedays are the days of not being
accountable for the impact ofyour technology and the impact
of your technology on the pubare not the days of not being
(08:45):
accountable for the impact ofyour tip on over the general
public are over. The days whereyou could be hands off, as an
executive are over the dayswhere you can be silent on
social issues that are in ourthat we're challenged with today
(09:05):
are over. So and this isn't justfor technology. But I think
because technology is such afast growing industry. Because
technology has such an impactover everything that we do. In
terms of individuals,businesses, our communities. I
think that it's important thatleaders in tech are responsible
(09:27):
in terms of how they evolvetheir tech and how they lead
their teams, especially duringthese challenging times. We
can't have this what I callnaive optimism, about
technology. You need to askyourself, can my technology
potentially cause harm to thegeneral public? And if so, as an
(09:48):
organisation, what are we goingto do to make sure that we
mitigate that risk and that wedon't let that come to fruition?
Also in terms of leadership Ithink that it's not just
technically and operationallywhat you're doing in terms of
the right thing. But I thinkalso socially, the same way that
(10:10):
we, as leaders want to push thelimits in terms of what our
technology can do, we also needto push from a social impact
perspective in terms of what wecan do to contribute to
improving today's social issues.
So with that type of leadership,those are the companies that
people are going to want to workfor. Those are the companies
(10:31):
that clients are going to wantto do business with. And
ultimately, those are thecompanies that are really going
to lead in their industry.
Mario Cunha (10:42):
I see your point of view. So it's not just being the
naive, hoping for, oh, my newsoftware is going to change the
way we do. I don't know,transactions, but also okay,
what how could this impactnegatively the society and the
community where I live in?
Definitely. I see.
Caroline Nicholas (11:00):
You're taken to fact, the sort of the ethical
side of things is what we'redoing, or is what we're
producing or putting out to thepublic to customers? Ethical,
you know, is it right?
Mario Cunha (11:14):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's not just an example,
as an example. It's not justproducing an app to help during
the COVID-19. But also, okay,this app actually can allow
people to track the whereaboutsof this community. Do I really
want to allow people to knowwhere everyone is? That type of
thing? Right?
Cecilia Harvey (11:34):
Yeah, I think that you need to, to challenge
what your technology is doing. Ithink that you want to encourage
your internal teams to alsochallenge what is our tech
doing? And to think about that,what is the intention of what
we're trying to do? And also,what are the realities, because
(11:57):
you can have all of the bestintentions, but at the end of
the day, you've got to get realin terms of what can potentially
happen. And then what are youdoing in order to mitigate the
negative aspects of what cancome?
Mario Cunha (12:10):
I see, using COVID-19 as a segue for my next
question, then. So thecircumstances that we are now
due to COVID-19 mean thatorganisations have to deal with
a lot of change and uncertainty,rapid evolution in terms of
digital transformation, youthink the current situation has
(12:31):
changed what people want to seefrom a leader?
Cecilia Harvey (12:34):
I don't think that the current situation has
changed what people want to seefrom a leader, I think that
people are just going to wantthat to be something that's
necessary, rather than somethingthat's nice to have from a
leader. So people have alwayswanted their leaders to have
integrity, to be authentic, tobe empathetic, to be
(12:57):
accountable, and to be actionoriented. But these are
qualities that are really goingto be necessary, if leaders are
going to be able to navigatetheir organisation through the
turbulent times that we'reseeing today. I have an amazing
team. And I think that part ofmy job as CEO is to, just as a
(13:20):
leader in general, is to enablethem to do their best job by
removing any barriers andobstacles that come in their
way, it gets back to thatresponsible leadership and in
almost making sure that you'rein a position of service to
those that you are meant tolead. Also, I think that it's
(13:43):
not going to be about simplyleading internally, but about
also leading within the broaderindustry or the broader
community. So as a leader, whatdo you believe in? What do you
stand for? What are you notgoing to stand for? I think that
employees and the clients thatyou serve, are going to be
(14:05):
asking companies that they workfor and that they buy from, to
be more conscious. And as a techcompany at Hyve, we definitely
want to take on that role ofbeing that catalyst that really
seeks to bring togetherdifferent companies and
(14:26):
organisations to address issuesthat do impact the broader
community. When the COVID-19pandemic hit, we knew that our
centre technology could addresscertain aspects of that problem,
but we also want it to partnerand bring together other
organisations on solutions thatcould help you know, for
individuals within government,etc. So really, it will be about
(14:50):
leading not only within thecompany, but also the broader
tech community.
Mario Cunha (14:56):
It's actually a very interesting point of view.
So looking at the leader, notjust someone who ultimately we
can rely on to help us solve ourproblems, but also someone who
can mirror our core values andhelp the community. That's
actually quite interesting.
Caroline Nicholas (15:12):
Yeah, taking the COVID-19 and the current
pandemic situation. So Cecilia,can I ask how challenging has it
been to keep engaged? Youmentioned your team, you know, a
great body of a team you have,how challenging has it been to
keep engaged with people whilethey're working remotely? And
working at home? Have you seenany differences? Or has it
(15:35):
strengthened that resolve andthat engagement?
Cecilia Harvey (15:38):
I think, for us, it's definitely, it strengthened
us as a team. One, we definitelyshowed that we cared for one
another. So just in general,just making sure everybody's
okay. You know, trying tounderstand, does anybody need
anything in order to supportthis new way of working, that
(16:00):
we're dealing with right now,but also, you know, in terms of
how we deal with people externalto our immediate team, certain
vendors and suppliers that thatwe're working with, and trying
to understand how we can betterwork with them going forward.
So. So I think that the thingthat's been so important is just
an increase in the communicationamongst the team. And people
(16:23):
knowing that whatever they needto do, in order to navigate this
new way of working, and justpersonally and professionally,
also just this new way of lifethat we have, that we're going
to have their back basically,and that we're going to support
them as an organisation has beenso important and so key. And I
(16:47):
think that it's just showingthat bit of humanity during this
time that is really beensomething that's really helped
us. And I think many otherorganisations are going through
the same challenge andhopefully, applying that same
bit of humanity to their staffand teams.
Mario Cunha (17:07):
That's great. I would like to talk to you about
Tech Women Today, and maybe somecareer advices. Could you will
elaborate on what Tech WomenToday is? And what advice can
you give any women venturinginto the tech world?
Cecilia Harvey (17:21):
Yeah, Tech Women Today, you know that when I
started several years ago,there's so many great
organisations out there thatwere focused on female
entrepreneurs and women in tech.
So I didn't just want to createanother one. One of the
objectives of tech women todayis really to sustain and
(17:41):
strengthen a pipeline of womenand tech. And I wanted to start
an organisation that providedwomen with the resources that
they needed in order to besuccessful. So for Tech Women
Today, one I wanted to expandthe definition of what it meant
to be a woman in tech. It wasn'tjust for people that worked at
(18:03):
technology companies, it wasn'tjust for people that were coders
or programmers, or even peoplethat had technical roles within
any type of organisation. Butreally, it's really seeking to
understand if you if you work inart, and you work in digital,
you're a woman in tech, or ifyou work in healthcare, and
(18:27):
you're doing something relatedto social media, or engaging in
tech in some way. But you're nottechnically you don't have come
from a STEM background, you'restill a woman in tech. There's
so many different ways to thinkof how we define women in tech.
And I think once we expand thatdefinition, it will encourage
(18:48):
more women to join the industryoverall. Also tech women today's
resource that provides differenttypes of resources for non
technical female entrepreneursthat need to leverage technology
in order to grow and scale theirbusinesses. So that's another
aspect that I thought was quitedifferent that I did I there was
(19:11):
a gap that I didn't see outthere, that I thought could
really help a lot of women togrow their businesses become
entrepreneurs, become successfulentrepreneurs. And and those
women also are what I considerTech Women Today. Remember
someone told me years ago that Iwas like the Oprah of tech,
(19:34):
which I think is the greatestcompliment? Because you know
what, like, yeah, because likeOprah you know, I think it's
important to create platformsthat help to amplify the voices
of others and help people toempower themselves. So I think
(19:57):
that's what I also I tried toachieve with with Tech Women
Today is just creating theplatform that just allows people
to shine and to showcasethemselves. Tech Women Today
it's a conduit, where I'mseeking just to provide equal
access to opportunities andresources that can help women to
(20:19):
be successful. And I think thatthe most valuable aspect of the
organisation is women being aresource for each other. So
that's really something I thinkis important and something I'm
quite passionate about.
Caroline Nicholas (20:37):
When you liaise with women, they're women
in the infancy of the career,like they may have finished
college, university or their midcareer. Do you see traits and
shades of yourself in terms ofwhere you think they need to
change things? Or step thingsup? Can you correlate and, you
know, see those patterns thatyou may have fallen into early
(20:59):
in your career?
Cecilia Harvey (21:00):
Sure, sure. Oh, my gosh, history definitely
repeats itself. But I thinkthat, I think quite early in my
career, I'm similar to a lot ofpeople, I think you're just
trying to really find yourselfand to find out who you are,
what you're about, you know,your identity. And I think that,
(21:23):
I think you need to, one of thekey things that I definitely
learned along the way is thatyou need to know who you are.
And you need to be veryconfident in who you are in your
identity. Because every dayyou're going to be challenged by
people in situations that aregoing to make you question who
(21:43):
you are, and through youractions you need to firmly tell
them who you are, what you standfor, who you are, who you are
not. And then people, becausepeople are going to question
your ability, your experience,whether or not you add value,
and you've got to know who youare at the end of the day. I
(22:05):
remember, you know, there wasmany years ago, there was a
senior female MD. And, you know,I remember I thought, you know,
we didn't have the greatestrelationship. And I thought, You
know what, I'm going to meetwith her and see how we can
improve things. And I rememberher saying to me, she said,
Well, I don't see the value thatyou add. I mean, who says that?
Mario Cunha (22:29):
That's harsh.
Cecilia Harvey (22:30):
And, you know, and I thought to myself, and you
know, that needed to happen atthat point, because that's the
point about knowing who you are,because and I, you know, I
thought to myself, well, okay,I'm highly rated, my boss, who
was also her boss, at the time,thought I was doing a good job,
I was recently promoted to be onthe same management team as she
(22:53):
was on, I had a high managerperform manager effectiveness
rating for my team. So I must beadding some value if you put all
that together. So you know, Ithink, you know, the devil is a
liar. And there are those thatare going to try and tell you
lies about yourself, but youhave to have the power to choose
(23:14):
if you believe those lies. Onceyou understand that that power
lies within you. And you havethat mindset, you are going to
be unbreakable. So there's asaying that the water
surrounding the boat doesn'tsink the ship, it's the water
that gets in the boat that sinksthe ship. So if you don't let
(23:35):
those lies get in your head,it's smooth sailing.
Caroline Nicholas (23:39):
Yeah, it's amazing what you can encounter
as a woman in the workplace interms of, you know, gaslighting,
or people trying to make youquestion yourself. So you're
saying you just need to find theresolve and the strength within
yourself and push past after?
Cecilia Harvey (23:55):
Yeah, I think that was, you know, one of those
things where it's like, man, ifI knew back then what I know
now, like, if you know thatpoint when I was having that
conversation, you know, I thinkgoodness, I had it by them. But
though but you're going to bethrough those, you're going to
go through those times. Andyou've got to have you know,
that ability when somebody saysthat to you and your face be
(24:15):
like, Okay, thank you keep itmoving. And you know the truth.
You don't even have to argue youdon't have to debate it. It's
like you just feel sorry forthemselves. You just don't feel
sorry for them that they don'tknow the truth.
Mario Cunha (24:28):
Yeah, that's a good point. Don't you know that the
bad is on their side thatthey're probably just reflecting
how they feel or something likethat.
Cecilia Harvey (24:36):
Yeah, I always say you know, somebody else's
opinion of me is that nobusiness of mine.
Mario Cunha (24:41):
That's a good one.
I like that one. Still on the onthis subject, because I'm seeing
quite an interest in here. Butare you seeing any global trends
within your work on Tech WomenToday? What I mean is in terms
of areas that require more focusand attention for encouraging
women in tech?
Cecilia Harvey (25:01):
I think that, I think there's so many different
exciting areas of tech rightnow. And the you know,
definitely sort of, you know,trending areas that people
always talk about whether it becybersecurity, AI, machine
learning, anything within data,there's always going to be
different areas, I think it'sreally about just finding where
(25:24):
your interests lie. And in timeschange and evolved, things
evolve, and you know, justhaving a skill set where you can
really go from one thing toanother. So I don't think that
it's so much that, but I thinkit's more about really expanding
the definition of what it meansto be in tech, you don't have to
(25:45):
have a STEM degree, you don'thave to, you know, be a
programmer, coder. In order towork in tech, and I think it's
more about changing thatdefinition, expanding of what it
means to be in tech, and thatwill encourage more people to
(26:06):
join the technology industryfrom a diverse range of
backgrounds and degrees. Andjust from different mindsets,
which I think the industryreally needs, in terms of having
people that think the differentway, but having people from more
creative backgrounds that aren'tas as highly sort of technical,
(26:32):
in the traditional sense. Sothat is a trend that I am
definitely seeing now. And Ihope that continues.
Caroline Nicholas (26:39):
Yeah, very much. So. I mean, you mentioned
STEM, and when they're lookingfor take up on such courses, and
IT courses, it is very maledominated still. And when I did
my degree 20 odd years ago, youknow, it was 98%, male, 2%
female, you know, and the womensort of gravitate to the bit
together. And, you know, I'dlike to hope that there has been
(27:03):
some movement, you know, do yousee that movement and progress
when you talk to women in techare women about to embark in
tech?
Cecilia Harvey (27:11):
I do because I think that, I think there's
definitely been progress interms of us, not sort of boxing
people based on their genderinto pursuing certain
disciplines. So I hope that thatdefinitely continues. And
there's just more of an openmind around even though if you
(27:34):
don't have a STEM background,per se, you can still be
involved in an industry that Ithink is so dynamic, such an
amazing area to be a part of,from a career perspective, and
also something where I think youcould just continually learn and
(27:55):
continually a challenge when youyou meet so many meet so many
dynamic, interesting people. SoI hope that that definitely
continues going forward.
Caroline Nicholas (28:06):
Okay, moving on to the next topic, I really
wants to ask you about BritishVogue and your recent feature.
And for me, Vogue is a magazinethat was very much out of reach,
and not really one that I couldalign myself with. And you know,
in recent months, years, it hasbecome more diverse with Edward
Enfields work. So what's thefeedback that you've received
(28:28):
from featuring in British Vogue?
Cecilia Harvey (28:31):
Yes, I'm one I think that the writer Susan
Delaney did a fantastic job interms of just putting forth the,
you know, just a very authenticprofile on paper and just sort
of just helping me tell thatstory. Edward Enfields it cannot
(28:56):
be cannot be thanked enough formaking British Vogue, a platform
that has shown such diversity,that has shown such
significance. Since he's takenover the helm of Editor in
Chief, I think that similarly, Iwould have never have thought,
(29:23):
you know, little black girlgrowing up that I would be able
to be featured in British Vogueand to see an article. It was so
humbling, and the feedback thatwas received has been just so
(29:43):
incredible. I think that just alot of what was discussed in the
article just in terms ofchallenges that anybody goes
through within their careers.
And back to the point of, youknow, being a you know, needing
to under Stand who you are, andbeing quite firm in your
identity and an understandingthat yet, you know, challenges
(30:06):
are going to come within yourcareer, there's going to be
those moments where you're goingto think, oh, my goodness, I can
I take any more. But those arereally the defining points,
where you know, it's your timefor turnaround, and for a
comeback and to shatterceilings. So I think that it was
a story that really inspired alot of people. I think that it
(30:29):
was a story that a lot of peoplerelated to. And I think that it
showed that, you know, overall,we're all going to go through
challenges, but the winds thatare meant to stop, you are
ultimately going to push youtowards your destiny. I love
that quote, Joel Olsteen. But,um, but I think that it just
(30:52):
really demonstrated that. And itbut the feedback has been
incredible. But once again, Ithink that, you know, the a lot
of the credit goes to EdwardEmma for, and he's just an
excellent example of what somany organisations can do to
show that diversity, it's outthere, it's just a matter of do
(31:16):
you want to show it? Do you wantto create the platform for it.
But what he's done is just shownthat, you know, diversity, it's
in there, it's out there infashion. And it's so wonderful
to open up the pages and see somany stat records to see that
representation. But also, to seethe depth that a publication
(31:42):
which you know, traditionallyprobably was only thought of on
a very superficial level. And tosee that he's made it a
publication of such significanceis absolutely a credit to him.
Mario Cunha (31:59):
Unfortunately, we have to start wrapping up. But
so final thoughts. What wouldthe perfect tech culture walk
like going forward? I mean, howdo you hope the industry will
look like in 10 years time?
Cecilia Harvey (32:12):
Yeah, hopefully, it's not in 10 years time. My
views on what it should looklike with tech culture, but I
think that we're all you know, Ialmost like to think of it, you
know, we're in sort of techleadership 2.0 phase where, you
know, it's time for a new faceof technology. And when we think
(32:34):
about tech leaders and techculture, you know, what are
those personas? You know, who dothey look like? What does it
look like? I think thatdefinitely, it's having more
leaders that are truly being aforce for positive change. I
think that it's applyingtechnical resources for social
good. I think that also it'sleaders, using their platform to
(32:57):
unite communities internally andexternally. It's technology that
seeks to protect the public.
It's in it also its diversity atall levels. I think that we need
more visible examples of peoplein roles where historically, we
have not been there. I think allpeople need to see these images
(33:19):
where we are exceptional, ratherthan being an exception. And in
my view, you know, that'sreally, you know, what the,
what's that's really techculture going forward. And you
know, I hope it doesn't take 10years to get there. But I think
we're making great progress. AndI hope that we continue to see
(33:40):
this sort of new face oftechnology.
Mario Cunha (33:44):
Well, that's all we had for today. Thank you very
much, Cecilia and Caroline forbeing able to join us. I'll take
this opportunity say goodbye toeveryone that's listening and
for yourself to be able to alsosay your goodbyes on this
podcast. I really have to saythank you very much for being
able to join us.
Cecilia Harvey (34:02):
Thank you Cecilia. Thank you Caroline and
Mario, I really appreciate it.
Mario Cunha (34:07):
I thank you very much. Well, with that said, that
is all that we have for thisepisode. Thank you very much for
joining us. And please be on thelookout for next episode of high
tech local podcast, where again,we'll feature another guest and
approach another topic ofextreme importance in the tech
world. See you soon.soon
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