January 25, 2024 • 52 mins
As the landscape of cannabis shifts and grows, we're thrilled to bring you an episode soaked in personal stories and industry insights with none other than Hugo Alves, the advocate, CEO and Top 100 Who's Who of HighTimes magazine. From Hugo's formative years amidst Hamilton's steel city charm to practicing law that have etched the path of cannabis legalization in Canada, this episode stitches together the fabric of personal growth with professional triumph. We traverse Hugo's intimate relationship with cannabis, balancing the pressures of a high-stakes legal career with the grounding presence it provides him—offering a candid look at how one plant can shape a life and a legal landscape.
Pull up a chair as we transition from the courtroom to the buzzing world of cannabis entrepreneurship. Hugo shares the electric moment of decision, swapping briefs for business plans, and the exhilarating leap into launching products that would soon catch the eye of High Times. The chatter doesn't stop there; we dissect the competitive dance between legal and illicit markets, discussing the delicate interplay of pricing and customer satisfaction that continues to shape the industry post-legalization. Each story Hugo unfurls is a thread in the larger tapestry of change and challenge, weaving his professional expertise with personal anecdotes of family and the art of staying present.
Rounding out our session, we zero in on the latest tremors shaking the market—from outdoor cultivation adventures to the pure live resin collaboration cartridge that's set to turn heads. Our spirited exploration of product development doesn't shy away from the hurdles of regulations, as we share our strides in adapting and excelling within this dynamic space. And don't miss the buzz around our sheesh beverage, the latest craze promising refreshment and relaxation. Each revelation of our chat with Hugo not only spotlights the ever-evolving world of cannabis but also serves as a reminder of the power of innovation and the importance of staying true to one's roots and craft.
To stay in the loop on our latest episodes, follow us on Instagram (@higherorbit), and YouTube (@higherorbit), and don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Or send us an email: info@higherorbit.ca.
Thank you for your unwavering support. We're excited to bring you even more awe-inspiring content in the near future.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Minus 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 8 inches, start 4, 3, 2, 1.
I'm Sean and I'm Charlie andthis is higher orbit.
You're gonna hit us with thewoo Woo.
(00:23):
Good morning everybody.
He needs another coffee.
We're back.
Wow, it's been a minute.
Happy holidays, happy new year,everybody.
We got an amazing guest in thehouse today.
Been a very special friend ofours and a supporter of the
Cosmic Charlie's brand andhigher orbit for some time now
actually.
Yeah, we can list off, I mean,the several brands and companies
(00:44):
that he's been a part of andhelped guide.
It's always like just to name afew.
I'm wearing this shirt, thesick cozy ass sweater.
He brought me back 40, prettymuch the top of the vape game.
You got Colab Project.
You got Doze.
Can you got?
What am I forgetting here?
I know I'm forgetting a brand.
Definitely Tons Tons 4A.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah, there's too many to name.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Other companies, but we got our boy, hugo Alves, in
the house.
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Thank you.
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Glad to be here.
Welcome to the plant.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Glad to be here, obviously that is if anyone
doesn't know.
We've been trying to make ithappen for some time.
I'm really glad you came on,man.
Thanks so much for being herewith us today.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Appreciate it, fellas .
Speaker 2 (01:23):
That's impressive stuff.
It's really impressive stuff.
Man, where do you want to start?
Where should we start History?
Well, I'm just spotting here.
I mean, I didn't know, you grewup in Ottawa.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
No, no, no, no, no.
Grew up in Hamilton, hamilton,I didn't know that.
East end of Hamilton, okay,absolutely Big part of who I am
100%.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Damn man Been around, stayed in Ontario Again just
kind of digesting some of this.
So I mean we know you have abackground, we've known you for
some time, like you've been ahuge supporter and friend of
ours.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Well, we're next door neighbors, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, for those who don't know, over at Cosmic
Charlie's down in the Bellwoodsarea, hugo set up shop.
How long has it?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
been Day one, day one , I think, you know, for your
audience that doesn't know Likearound the cannabis weekdays,
yeah.
Since day one.
That was our first office spaceever.
We've always been headquarteredlike 200 yards around the
corner from you guys.
You know we're representing thesix for sure.
Always been headquartered here,love the area.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Our local, your local shop, we'll say for most of the
holiday, 100%.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
This is my home base.
Yeah, this is the home shop,for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Always has been.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Day one since you guys opened.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, I can't state how much we really appreciate
the partnership and kind ofdeveloping a relationship with
you and it's always been so nicewhen you know you walk through
the door.
I'm like Hugo's here, I'm likewe get to talk about all the fun
stuff that's going on in theindustry and it's been like
quite a journey for Charlie andI as retailers and I'm sure for
you as a licensed producer.
Shit man, you're still around.
(02:58):
It's been like many years Likewhere did when did you know you
were going to get into cannabisand why did you get into this
crazy shit?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, like.
So, as I said, I grew up in theEast End of Hamilton and my my
journey in cannabis reallystarted as a consumer, and you
know it was ubiquitous.
It was around us all the timeand then I went high school high
school, high school days, yeah,and then I, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Do you remember the first time you smoked?
I'm going to ask you.
I don't think I've ever talkedto you about it.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I do remember the first time I smoked.
Yeah, it was nothing happened.
I was like, hmm, I don't knowwhy my friends, older brothers,
all think this is the coolestand why my parents, like you
know, think it's it's reallyevil, like nothing really
happened.
And then the second time iswhen something happened, but it
was after I'd been drinking abit, so like, what happened
(03:54):
wasn't wasn't that great, but Idon't know, call me determined.
I kept with it and thendiscovered, and I think
throughout my life it's been,it's been part of it and I think
it's in many ways it's beenkind of my secret weapon.
You know, as a, I think peopleof my age like you know we kind
(04:17):
of grew up watching, whether itwas in the media or in our own
homes, like watching.
You know our parents come homeafter a hard day and, you know,
have a drink to unwind.
Like my dad would come home.
He was a welder like and he'dcome home and have a beer every
single day If it was a tough day, like you know, two beers.
But so you kind of like youknow you're, you're brought up
(04:40):
in that hey, there's somethingto take the edge off.
But like, alcohol never reallydid it for me, right, like in my
career path I've always workedreally hard, had like in a high,
you know, high demanding joband as you you get older and you
guys are going through this now, right, with young families,
like it's really really busy,work is demanding.
But then you also want to bepresent at home.
(05:01):
And I found where a lot of mycolleagues would have, you know,
go and have a drink or do this,but it couldn't really
disconnect, like I'd have a highdemanding job where I was
working till like midnight, onea one am in the morning, uh,
mentally really stimulating, soit's hard to turn your mind off.
And I found I can smoke half ajoint, a joint, like like the
(05:22):
minute I get out of here ontothe street and like that I was
disconnected and present withwhat I was doing.
So I thought it allowed me towork really hard but then also
have that mental break where,like I wasn't getting burnt out
and also be really present withmy family, be a good dad, be a
good husband.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I totally agree.
I find that like with myconsumption to really like can
give you that confidence youknow, and and help you get a
really good sleep, which I thinkis you know, a lot of people
use it under.
Underestimated.
I know we're not supposed totalk about that in like a retail
environment, but I meananything that can help you get a
better sleep and get a betterstart to your day and feel more
well.
Rested is good on my books,yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
That self-medicating part of it, right Like, is, uh,
maybe growing up like wasn't thefocus.
It's always been fun, right, um, you know, brought us closer
together as like friends with my, with my friends, but also,
yeah, like I said, in myprofessional life, it was always
not, it was always mixed in bigin, but you'd have to keep it
secret.
(06:19):
Right, I wasn't showing up atmy law firm going, oh yeah, I
smoked it.
Right, I got great sleep.
I'm ready to go today.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Probably mostly frowned upon in general and, uh,
I'm not seen, like you knowwhat I mean and like the I guess
, legal world.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, stigma has definitely evolved over the last
10 years, right, and that'sbeen one of the, I think, the
great boons, but also one of thegreat challenges like,
ironically, of legalization isis the, you know,
destigmatization, that sort ofreally changing social views
towards cannabis use and, whenit's appropriate, and you know
(06:55):
what, what functions or what,what, what, what, what, what it
can do for people.
Right, and I'm we're drivenlike at Oxley and myself and our
founders were, you know, we'vealways been firm believers that
you know cannabis helps peoplelive happier lives and that's
really what we strive for.
Our products are, you know,simple and uncomplicated.
They're meant to have fun, um,and I think it's it's that
(07:19):
belief that you know this is a,a substance that is net benefit
to humanity, um, and and canhelp people live like, more
present, more connected, happierlives.
It really drives a lot of the,the passion that we have and and
the way we think about productsthat we bring to market and how
we position our brands.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Definitely, man.
I think you kind of nailed iton the head there, and
especially compared to, like alot of the other I quote,
unquote, sin kind of substances,I would say that cannabis kind
of brings the most benefit tothe table and you're talking
about, I don't know Absolutelyand we could argue about that a
lot.
But of course I mean I thinkit's harm reduction, like when
you made the comparison withalcohol, right, like there's.
(08:00):
There's a huge difference therein terms of what it does for
your health, your mental health,um, and how it's used, Uh, but
just to dial it back.
So I mean great story.
Obviously, you know thatpassion's there.
I've never really fullyunderstood her craft because
you've always had, you know, alot of hands and things, um, but
like going back to legalization, when Oxley came about, I don't
(08:21):
even know what he actually likecirca date, like what's going
on with you?
go then, like you know, I knowyou were really integrated where
you were doing and then lawschanging Right, the law is
changing, yes.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
So, look, I went to, I went to UT law and I was there
right when the seminalconstitutional law cases were
working their way through thecourt.
Um and uh, I had a greatconstitutional law professor who
was, uh, you know, he's likeone of these kind of like wild
rebel personalities.
So he was, he was veryinterested in this and, of
(08:55):
course, like I was veryinterested in it too, because I
loved weed.
Um, and then, you know, therewas RV Parker in 2000,.
Right, Really flip the scriptin terms of the way cannabis
legalization was going toproceed in Canada, right that?
I think that's.
That's always one of the keydifferences.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Parker, sorry, I don't actually know.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I think it was a sort of appeal case in 2000 that
held that, you know, restrictingaccess to cannabis was
unconstitutional, okay, okay, itviolated your section seven,
charter rights and, um, you know, that's important and can't
look in the U?
S right, the genesis oflegalization is people wrote a
(09:37):
bill, you know, mobilize thevote, got it onto the ballot and
then voted into law in Canada.
The genesis, totally different,right?
So there's really really sickpeople who you know are at
they've they've exhaustedconventional medicine, cannabis,
the only thing that helps them.
So they have that right totheir security of person, right.
(09:58):
You have the right to try, andyou know, protect your health.
It's constitutionally enshrined.
But you also have the right to,you know, security of person.
You shouldn't be subject toprosecution.
And by trying to pursue yourcharter right to, you know, to
your healthcare.
And the court found that thatwas in fact, you know,
(10:21):
constitutionally invalid to putthat restriction and told the
government to go back and, asthey do, pass a constitutionally
compliant law.
And they did that with the MMARright, right.
And so here I am.
I just graduated law school, I'man Articling student,
bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, onBay Street, and you know, a lot
(10:44):
of my high school friends arelike, hey, man, we need legal
now, like we gotta, can you helpme fill out these forms?
And I did and quickly realizedlike this is probably not gonna
be like a legal practice for me,right, like I was like a
student.
So I went back to being alawyer, right, and practicing on
Bay Street and working withreally smart people and high-end
(11:08):
deals and really cut my teethin terms of understanding how
finance works, understanding howcorporate transactions work and
how regulation works.
I've always been kind ofregulatory focused in my
practice areas.
And then in 2013, you know, thegovernment passed the MMPR
(11:30):
right, which was really afundamental shift, and I
remember reading what were themega differences?
The mega differences were likeunder the previous regime, you
were regulating people, right,you were regulating the sick
person.
So you're going to get adiagnosis saying it's within
this list of diagnosis is you goand get a second opinion, a
(11:53):
confirmation of diagnosis, fillout a form and then the
government's like you can buyweed.
Originally it was you can onlybuy from us, right, which was
the old prairie plant systemsgrow.
So it didn't work out, you knowit wasn't very good.
And then the constitutionalcases kept evolving to allow
people to you know, let someoneelse grow for you, right, right,
(12:13):
I remember this.
And then, hey, I can't get costefficiency with just one person
.
It's too prohibitive, I stilldon't have reasonable access.
So hits that came along, likeyou know.
Another case said okay, you canaggregate grows, you know, to
make it more cost effective.
So the constitutional landscapewas changing, but a lot of it
was still you're regulatingpeople, right, and like sick
people are shouldn't be thesubject of the regulatory regime
(12:35):
.
So what this did is it changedthe focus of regulation to
production and distribution,right, and what I had saw from
my previous experience ofbuilding a business in a
regulated industry within thelaw firm is like, okay, well,
this changes everything becauseyou know companies are gonna
have compliance obligations,they're gonna have regulatory
(12:58):
things.
So I thought this is great.
This gives us an opportunity toactually, you know, have
clients that you know a bit.
Yeah, like a Bay Street lawfirm can help.
Right, that has the like.
They're the appropriate fit.
So, with a colleague of minewho's now the Oxley president,
right, mike Lickford, you knowone of the, you know, great,
(13:21):
great partner in all of this andone of the, I think, real key,
key figures for me in myprofessional career, even though
he's, you know, technically,like you know we're mentor,
mentee, but that's now we're,you know, we're just lifelong
friends that run a businesstogether.
But I remember going to him andsaying, you know, mike, we
should, we should focus on this.
(13:43):
Right, we had great practices.
You know I was very active intech and renewable energy and
things like that, but we werevery passionate about cannabis.
So that's the driving.
You know, the driving force isthat sort of I can mesh my
personal and professionalpassions here and we just took
(14:04):
the position hey, like no oneknows more about this than we do
, no one knows more about theregulatory landscape that we do.
And, you know, we kind oflooked at each other, we, you
know, and we said, yeah, proveus wrong, right Like.
And then we cracked the booksright Like.
We really put in the elbowgrease.
We worked like two jobseffectively for two years during
the day we were doing our loss.
(14:26):
The firm thing right, like youknow, meeting expectations.
And then during the evening wewere, you know, networking,
talking to anyone who had aninterest in the subject.
We were writing articles, wewere working with the you know
conference providers.
And you know, the key thing iswe always had this notion that
(14:48):
just because we're all, you know, we're these sort of like
lawyers, like we have to investour time right.
So that was the very that waslike.
The thing that really separatedus from other advisors in the
space is we were willing to givepeople time, we were willing to
sit down, meet them, understandwhat they were going through
and then try and help them.
And that led to us acting for,like a lot of the early, early
(15:13):
companies that at the beginningthere were startups, they had no
money, but then they becamelike the seminal companies in
the space.
Whether that was you know, theearly pubcos, with you know,
tweet that became canopy, etcetera.
Whether that was with you knowinstitutions, lyft, the various
conferences.
We played, you know, key rolesright at the beginning of all of
(15:36):
those companies.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Didn't you tell me that you had you helped co-found
Lyft?
Was that is that right?
Did you tell me that?
Or you helped, helped somehowbring it to fruition anyways.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, lyft was started by Tyler Sokachoff out
of Vancouver, great entrepreneur, and early days it was more of
a website.
And then what really changedfor Lyft is they said we want to
do one of these kind ofconference events and I remember
back then it was like, you know, no one had resources and that
(16:07):
first Lyft conference was reallyit was Tyler and then a guy
named Alex Revich, who's stillin the industry, right, still,
you know he's had various roles,but Mike Lickford and then
Mateo Oluru, who you know at thetime was like a law student,
but then eventually he reallywanted to be in cannabis, and I
(16:27):
remember the four of them likeby themselves.
How did you get involved?
They called you or.
Well, I was, yeah, like I was, Iwas kind of the we were their
lawyer.
Go on it.
Yeah, we were their lawyer, wewere their startup lawyer.
And then, and then Mike kind oflike got co-opted into that
foursome of of putting the thefirst Lyft conference together
and you know that was really howit started and grew from there.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And that's such a big one.
I'm curious cause you mentionedyou know you were able to give
time to all these companies andhelp start them off.
When was it and you mentionedthis to me before when you were
like, why are we doing all thiswork for these guys?
Like let's start our ownfucking?
Like it was actually alwaysmeant to be.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
you know, you guys, you know it's not part of the
plan.
Yeah, Look, we started justgoing.
You know we're lawyers, let's,let's be lawyers.
It's something we love, rightand, oh my God, like, what could
be better, right, Like?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
You gave me the network opportunity network with
all these people too, rightyeah we met.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
We met great people.
We had like all this greatincreased access to weed.
Like a lot of people couldn'tlike hey, we but they'd give us
weed Like this is the greatestthing of all time.
I'm always happy to accept weedsamples, always, and no, it's
over time.
We acted for about 70% of allindustry participants, so we
(17:46):
acted for like almost everybody.
And you know, look, it was likeanything else.
It was getting more competitive, more crowded.
We were running into a lot ofconflicts but we were also
running into a lot ofopportunity.
We had a lot of a lot ofclients and a lot of companies
that weren't clients coming tous and saying, hey, have you
ever thought of joining industry, joining a company?
And we were working on aproject with a client and it was
(18:10):
different right, it wasdifferent than anything else
that was out there and theyreally involved us both in terms
of, like, our legal expertise,but really our industry
expertise.
And then they gave us anopportunity.
They said, look like we'dreally like you to join.
It was with Chuck.
Rafichi was gonna be leading.
I knew Chuck from early days,like he was an early client at
(18:31):
Canopy.
I met him at the ribbon cuttingof the Tweed facility in Smith
Falls and I remember Chucksaying, look, I'm thinking of
doing this business, but I wannado it if you do it.
He offered me like obviously,great, great terms, like I could
bring my team with me, etcetera, cause we're very team
(18:52):
focused and, honestly, like itwas really one of those moments
in life where you sit back andgo okay, I've got a great
profile in the industry.
This is like I love thisindustry more than like you know
any other that I've worked in.
I've got this great opportunitywhere I can go with my friends.
(19:13):
If these aren't the conditionsfor me to take a risk, then what
conditions have to exist, likewhat has to exist for me to like
take a leap and leave thisreally like established?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
career.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
And I was like, if it's not these conditions, I'm
dying at that desk and look likeI love being a lawyer, like
there was no problem, like Ialways loved what I did right,
and I was a lawyer for 20 years.
But I've always had anentrepreneurial streak I've
always dreamed about.
You know, I've always helpedentrepreneurs as part of my
(19:46):
business.
I had opportunities to go intobusiness before.
I didn't take them, so I didn'twant to.
Like you know, you got to lookat yourself in the mirror every
morning.
I didn't want to live with theregret, yeah.
So I took the leap and you knowwhat.
It hasn't worked.
You know the way we thought itwas is common in life.
But no regrets, I'm super happyI did it.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
That actually takes me.
I had a question I wanted toask you Well we'll save it for
the next segment I have anotherone too, but do you remember
where your first product was?
What was the first product youguys launched?
That's a good, quick one, toleave it on quick one.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Oh, we launched a portfolio and it was.
It was, but it was.
Vapes and addables were themain products.
Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Nice 2.0.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, still in the market, though, blackberry cream
, mango hay strawberry ice,we'll be right back and don't
forget sheesh is the officialsponsor of higher orbit.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
We're back.
We've got Hugo Alves, Founderand CEO of Oxley Corp.
High times top 100.
When was that?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, let's talk about that one.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
I don't know if that's really cool, like that's
basically if your rocks arebeing on the cover, being a
Rolling Stone, almost, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah it's, it's flattering.
I think it's going from.
It was one of those momentsright when we all grew up
reading high times and it was,you know, if you got yourself an
issue of high times, it wascool.
We go over to my friends, youknow, or we gather in my
friend's basement and you knowthe parents were, you know,
(21:18):
would have an issue of hightimes.
We, we, we read it.
It was always.
Yeah, it was like how we got.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
I think you cracked the top 10.
Am I wrong?
I think you were number nine.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I think it's just the top 100.
I know I put through the pagesand you were.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
you were farther back , yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
It was.
It was a lovely piece ofrecognition and yeah, that is.
It was great to see you know,go from reading the magazine as
a youngster to be seeing yourpicture in it.
Yeah, it was a great, greatmoment.
That's what I was saying.
My kids don't understand whyit's so cool.
They're like what are hightimes?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
What is that?
Yeah, yeah, but kids consume.
Do you have a relationship withthem in the plant?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah, so yes, they, my oldest does, my youngest, you
know, doesn't.
But yeah, we, we, you know heprobably will at some point.
But yeah, we've always had anopen conversation about it,
right, Like they've always knownwhat I've done.
(22:14):
It's been important that youknow my, my, my conversation
with my parents, a very, youknow, european right.
Yeah, like this is drugs.
Oh my God, my son the drugs.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
It's a hard line, right.
They're like it is drugs.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, but now it's different.
You know, my mother, you know,passed away last year,
unfortunately.
But yeah, no, I appreciate it,but it was great before she
passed away, right?
And this sort of like elderlyPortuguese woman who, like, grew
up in that.
You know, marijuana is drugs,but you know, I started.
I got her to try an edible, noshit, yeah, yeah, half a half a
(22:53):
foray salt to caramel square.
She didn't even know and I, youknow she didn't even know.
But yeah, yeah, I just admitteddosing my mama All right.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Well, hey, let's.
I would say that's a good.
That's a good, friendly starterdose.
What do you know what?
Speaker 1 (23:10):
You said she was incredible time right, some of
the best memories we have now ofher in kind of that later stage
in her life where she's goingthrough health issues and you
know life is a bigger challengehave been while she's been, you
know, at our house for holidaysand it's after dinner and we,
like you know, gave her a half,a half a chocolate or and then
she started taking themvoluntarily, right, she knew
(23:30):
what was going on.
It's not like we dosed herbeyond that, it was just to go.
Hey, do you remember?
Do you remember last night?
Yeah, like I was cannabis, so Iremember it was like Christmas
Eve or something and she, we hada big dinner and then the half
chocolate and then she starteddancing with, like my son and
you know she was having a greattime and you know it didn't
(23:50):
matter what I did at my house,like she would always complain
about the sleep, right, she'dalways oh, you know you could
make noise to you, to get up toolate or whatever She'd always
get up super early and makenoise and it would be like I
know you're just doing this toget me up and woke up the next
day and like there was no noiseLike I woke up naturally and go
downstairs and my mom comes upfrom her bedroom.
(24:14):
She's like just getting you back.
Like oh, it's just slept sogood.
Like.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we got a new bed.
It's called weed.
Congratulations, You're full ofcloud.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Maya.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah.
So you know I it really, yeah,it really helped, helped her
tremendously.
My dad also was like never evensmoked a cigarette in his life.
You know, I got to take him toto our cultivation facility, Got
to see that he tried, triedsmoking a joint with me.
So it's, it's amazing just tosee the change in attitudes and,
(24:47):
you know, in their generation.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
No, I think it's great when you can bond over
cannabis.
I think I've said this before,but the first time I ever
consumed was with my mom, andit's something that I hold dear
and close to my heart.
I lied to her and told her thatI had consumed before, and
she's like okay, here you go.
And I didn't know what to do.
I didn't inhale and she's likeare you sure you've done that
before, because you're notactually inhaling it?
And then she told me how toinhale and the rest is history.
(25:10):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
So yeah, my daughter now comes into and she's like,
do you have any more of thoseice grape pre-rolls?
You know, if she's over, youknow over on the weekend,
they're going to watch her move.
I'm like, yeah it is.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
It is a you know it is a it takes.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, it was a strange feeling at first.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
The dad keeps asking you, you want the infused
pre-rolls.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Sure, here you go.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, I think as long as you're having those healthy
conversations.
You said you're open andcommunicative.
And I don't know.
I'm a new parent, Charlie, soonto be, I guess I just announced
it.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah, congratulations , charlie, on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, that's exciting news.
We were chatting aboutsomething just before.
Thank you both, of course.
Just before we got to thesegment and, obviously, having
you shopped here for a while andyou know, having those
conversations, do you think,like, those 40, $50 jars are
here to stay, like I feel likethat's the thing that just came
around during legalization andlike in general.
(26:10):
Like the flour, like buyingweed.
Yeah, the three and a halfgrand.
You're a pretty hard price, cutoff guy.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah, look, I think that there's all sorts of
different consumers, right, andI think that there are people
that you know the high, reallypremium priced three and a half
gram jar.
I think that will be here tostay.
You know, don't know what thevolumes will change or not, as
people look for, you know, findwhat they like and look for for,
(26:42):
like larger formats or biggervalue.
But myself, my own consumption,you know habits, like I'm in
here a lot, I talk to you guys alot about what you're smoking
and what you're seeing and yeah,there's a lot of great weed at
the kind of top tier.
I kind of like for my ownpurchasing thing, like I'm you
know I've talked to you guysbefore like I look for one kind
(27:04):
of like is the person who'sselling it to me, the person
that grew it, because I thinkyou know, when you start
inserting people into that valuechain like now I'm, you know
I'm not paying, like or the growyour.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
I'm not paying.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Like you know, I'm not getting maximum value for
that dollar right.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Someone's taking a little slice.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yeah, there's like there's some like middle cuts
along the way.
So I do tend to look for, youknow, the artisan that's put his
, you know, put his or her, youknow product in the bag and
that's theirs.
And so I will and I will pay alittle bit more for that, for
sure.
And then I look for what's,what's happening in and around
(27:43):
kind of the price points wherewe play right, who, who our
competitors are, I think youknow, whether it's back 40 or
collab, I think we offer anexcellent product, always had a
great value, and you know we'retrying to, we're trying to help
people, you know, have fun, livea happier life right, and a lot
of that is access, a lot ofthat's being able to access it.
(28:05):
And you know, I think pricedoes play a role in that.
So I like to see, yeah, what'sin it, around that value where
I'm like this is, this is kindof where I'm okay, got it.
You know, on a day to day basiswith my kind of like spend and
consumption.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I was thinking that collab, if I'm not wrong, I
always thought of it as more ofa premium brand, like when we
first kind of got into it and Igot to come back to Charlie's
question.
I've kind of noticed the pricesof collab come down.
Would you call it?
It is premium but it's notanymore, I kind of.
Would you kind of agree withthat?
Speaker 1 (28:40):
I think it's indicative of just the general
trend towards increased value.
Yeah, it started off at apremium price point.
Now I would say it's at like acore price point, right,
accessible to everyone.
And some of that is just drivenby the fact that prices in the
industry have come down.
Like when we started our firstproducts, like everyone referred
(29:01):
to, like the cannabis tax,everything was like double right
Because, you know, cannabis wassupposed to be this big
financial boon.
So everyone, from, like yoursupplier to your service
provider, would be like, well,you know there's additional risk
, or the volumes are this, oryou know you guys are gonna,
you're gonna sell at a highprice.
So everything from packagingthings were really expensive and
(29:24):
inputs were expensive, right,whether you're buying live resin
or whether you're, you know,buying cannabis.
And so, as the prices have comedown over time, it's allowed
you to, you know, adjust yourpricing to be more competitive
with the illicit market.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
And make it more accessible to consumers right.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Definitely.
I noticed in my research likeyou guys got a critical
investment like right before 2.0.
Did you see cannabis 2.0 asthat opportunity to kind of like
become the leaders in thespaces of that time?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, look again, I would say, like you know, one of
the things that set us apart atthe early days was we were
regulatory experts, right, Likewe really understood the
regulations and where they weregoing and what the different
classes of licenses could do andhow to get them and how they
would evolve over time.
Right, Because it's important.
And then when we looked atOxley like our own kind of
(30:19):
platform, we're like it's gonnabe a long time before we've
built our facilities and we'regonna get flour out of the door.
And by that time we just felt,man, we're so behind, right,
Like so many people in front ofus, and we knew, like we just
knew, this was before it hadbeen announced, before there
(30:41):
were regulations, before 2.0 wasa word Got it.
But we knew that if the publichealth and safety objectives of
the Cannabis Act were gonna beachieved as a fundamental you
know and it's a fundamentalideological point I think we're
still fighting on then we haveto be competitive with the
illicit market, right, and like,I think, at a very base
(31:03):
fundamental level, common senseis you have to offer similar
products, right, or else you'rejust not gonna compete right, If
there are products widelyavailable that are popular in
the illicit market.
You can offer them in the legalmarket.
Guess what Consumers are gonnago to the illicit market,
especially in today'senvironment, where it's easier
than ever and there's like lessfocus on enforcement than ever.
(31:26):
Stigma is gone right.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
What do you think needs to change?
I'm gonna ask you that becauseI do think that there's just
like I know in Toronto it's abigger issue with illicit stores
just opening like crazy, but Ithink in general it's still here
from a lot of people.
It's not being enforced.
It's a great time to be anillicit operator.
Yeah yeah, I mean yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Wow, for sure.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Look, it's what needs to change.
I guess is all I'm saying.
What do you think needs tochange from your you know?
Do you need to enforce it?
Do you enforce the laws thatare there?
Do you enforce it?
Does the law need to change?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Well, look, I think you know what legalization's
done is.
It's taken a lot of the stigmaaway in cannabis use, right Like
now if you see like a19-year-old or whatever, like a
person walking down the streetwith a joint, not worried about
getting busted?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, not worried about getting busted.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
And what it's done is it's really shifted law
enforcement priorities to otherpriorities, right, like they've
got a lot of competingpriorities, and then the excise
taxation that's been collected,right, like one point one and a
quarter billion dollars in 2023.
Wow, that money hasn't beenallocated to law enforcement,
(32:31):
right, exactly, so it's kind ofthere going look, I don't have
the resources, right, like a lotof officers, like you know,
it's hard to tell.
Illicit and legal marketproducts is apart, and they've
got fentanyl, they've got, youknow, other healthcare, other
law enforcement priorities.
So they kind of go.
Unless it's a real problem orsomething bad happens, like you
(32:53):
know, they don't enforce.
I don't think enforcement isreally, you know, probably the
catalyst.
They have to have a vibrant,diverse legal market that can
compete with the illicit market.
You know, I think one of thebig.
It is a big challenge and oneof the impediments is, like the
data on the illicit market sucks.
(33:15):
Of course it's a joke, right,right, let me see.
We got a stats can so theypiggyback to stats can household
spending, right, right, survey.
So you got the federalgovernment going.
I'm talking to consumers aboutsomething where you spend your
household money.
I'm going to throw a couplelike cannabis questions in there
(33:35):
and ask consumers federalgovernment asking you do you buy
from like legal sources or doyou break the law?
Yeah, and then, oh well, 60 orwhatever percent said said that
they don't only buy from legalsources.
So we've got this black marketbeat.
This is like a survey of 2,300respondents.
Right, and it's kind of used asa shield in some instances.
Right, like everyone knowswhat's happening in the illicit
(34:00):
market in edibles.
Right, like high THC.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Cheap price.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Cheap prices Maybe not actually Harder to youth,
definitely Right In theirmarketing.
And then everyone knows whathappened when we had the edible
extracts category, right, likethat these people took like an
innovative approach.
Right, ogi and other companiestook an innovative approach,
then I guess some Six millionmonths, six million dollars per
month in additional consumerdemand for those products, right
(34:29):
?
Wow, like that is how muchincremental demand.
And then, when those productscame off the market, Disappeared
.
That six million didn't go intoregular edibles or back into
flour.
It just disappeared.
Where did it go?
I wonder where to go.
People are not legallyavailable anymore.
I guess I won't buy them.
No, I went back to the illicitmarket.
But yet, you know, when youtalk to public health
stakeholders, who are veryconcerned, right, like they
(34:52):
don't want artificial demandbeing created, they don't want
appealing to youth, they're veryconcerned about the Potential
impact of like high dosageedibles in like a minor right,
like you know, toddler getsahold of it and they will point
to that data on.
Well, you know, because we'llsay, hey, we need to offer the
same products as the illicitmarket to compete with the
(35:12):
illicit market.
These products are alreadythere.
They're dangerous, they'reuntested, they're high THC.
Yeah, you know, they'retargeted at youth.
You need us to offer theseproducts To pull that demand out
of the illicit market and helpprotect public health and safety
and help bring more sales to usas retailers too.
Yeah, listen of course, to helpsupport the legal industry,
because you need a healthy andIn vibrant legal industry to
(35:35):
compete right.
Like you wouldn't send aflyweight Mount, like you know,
hasn't trained in a couple yearsto fight like Mike Tyson in the
ring right.
Like, just not so yeah, youneed a credible challenger or
else it's not gonna work.
But because you don't have thisgreat data on the illicit
market and what's really goingon, it becomes like a data point
.
Yeah, it's a shield.
(35:56):
Oh yeah, you know what?
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I don't know what you're talking about doesn't
know about that.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Yeah, we've already beat the illicit market and you
know we don't need to putCanadians at risk for to get
those last few consumers thatare still going to the illicit
market.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, you know I got a question for you guys.
No, I'm just because we've comesuch a long way.
Like you think about all theproducts, a vibrant market, like
we have a pretty vibrant market, I would argue.
We're increasing to 150 storesfor operator, not great for,
maybe, independence.
You know, it is what it is butit's still gonna help, is what
it is right.
You talk about economicallyAttrition, but do you think
(36:31):
there's some degree of likeromanticizing, like the illicit
market versus the legal market,like even we still talk about it
and sometimes you still getBilly fire weed on the black
market?
and some people will neverbelieve in the legal market or
that joke.
I don't know if you guys sawthat joke recently where it's
like he's like I would really goto a dispensary that catered
towards those illicit marketexperiences, you know.
Like instead of like an Applestore.
(36:52):
Just a guy on a couch.
He said, and I kind of feellike that's true, right.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, look, I think I Think that's one of the one of
the big challenges in ourindustry and I think it, you
know, ties into that point isour ability to communicate with
our consumer.
Hmm, right, and yeah, you gointo a good illicit market
dispensary, right, you know, youcan just see the product.
(37:17):
You guys can talk about theproduct you like, you know
you're talking claims, your yousay whatever you want whatever
you want, you know, you cansmell it and buy with your nose,
you can buy with your eyes andthat creates, I think, like a
more, a richer retail experiencewhere, like there's less
disappointment, you know whatyou're buying, right, you've
seen it, you've smelled it.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Here we got.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
We got, like you know mylar bags you can't see
through.
They all look the same, exceptmaybe a different color Can't
say much to your consumer, whichleads to Consumers basically
making decisions based on priceand potency for the most part.
So, yeah, it's difficult, right, it's difficult.
You don't.
You don't.
You don't get the same Kind ofnuance in that experience and
(38:00):
that.
But also I think that's one ofthe key Opportunities that you
guys have done so well here inCharlie's is bringing that
richness, you know, and thatnuance to your experience.
Right, like one of the greatthings about coming in here is
talking to you guys, about youknow what products you're seeing
and what you're smoking and youknow what you're hearing.
Bringing that kind of like veryPersonalized customer service
(38:25):
is, yeah, one of the the sort ofkey differentiators.
I think that's that you guysapart.
Thanks, you go Lots of lots ofgood recommendations, including
C.
She showed it here.
So there you go.
That the champions.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I was like not sure I was gonna crack one, but I'm
gonna do it, you know 12somewhere, it doesn't really
matter.
Yeah, no, yeah, it's just.
It's funny.
I always think about kind ofthe illicit market and just
certain people's opinions andeven, obviously, sean, having
done it before and, like youknow, we do delivery now and I
just like remember the old days.
(38:58):
It's like I'm getting adelivery, I'm waiting on this
guy one hour, two hours.
Yeah, where are you, dude?
I'm on my way.
He's like three hours go by nowit's like 15 minutes.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, I'm calling you .
Speaker 2 (39:07):
They're calling you always my weed, I left you with
dollar tip.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yeah, how easy people forget.
Right, that's not an app onyour phone.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Why?
Why are we so like?
We're fixated on the blackmarket.
I mean, I don't know, to somedegree I think we'll get there.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I think so.
I think we will for sure.
Yeah, you know slow and steady.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah, I'm gonna let you marinate on this one before
I come back.
What's the the biggest Um Thingyou'd like to see change in our
industry, whether it be thatable limit?
Can you see the weed Hugo?
What do you think is gonna pushit forward?
Speaker 1 (39:40):
I guess yeah no problem, that's an easel.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
We're back.
We'll be right back with Hugomoxley.
Welcome back back at the shop.
Yeah, we got open soon.
I don't open soon.
One more segment with a goodfriend, hugo from oxy oxy.
Welcome back, hugo, thanks.
(40:05):
I asked you.
Yeah, what do you want to seechange man taxes?
I should have known that wasgonna be your answer.
Yeah, for sure.
Look like.
I don't think Like the taxationand fee regime in our industry
is ridiculous and I think evenyou know CRA finance recognize
it.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
But yeah, it's hard to give up one, one and a
quarter billion bucks a year,but I think like there is
nothing that makes a biggerimpact Industry-wide right in
terms of the survivability ofthe legal industry, in terms of
the diversity Of the legalindustry, in terms of the
diversity of the legal industry.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
And when you think about it too, I always say that
our industry really was likeborn during the pandemic I mean
2018, sure, but like thingsreally started to flourish
around 2020 and so we alreadyhad to go through that as, like
you know, a young industry stilltrying to find its Kind of
place, and I think that, uh,it's time to give some back to
Hugo.
That's all I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah, listen, we, we, like I said, you can't the.
We have decades of evidence Tosay that command and control
policies do not work For harmreduction.
In in, you know, drugs, youknow.
So the illicit market's goingto win that fight every single
(41:26):
time.
So if, if you really do want toaccomplish the public health
and safety objectives of thecannabis act, if you want to
keep kids safe, change the tax.
Yeah, if you want, if you want,if you want to diminish the
illicit market, you need avibrant, diverse challenger.
You need someone, thegovernment needs a partner, to
go in and and provide a crediblechallenger.
(41:49):
And with the turds, currenttaxation levels, like, forget it
Right, like you've got to offerthe same products, yeah, or
similar products.
So you know being blind towhat's happening in the illicit
market and not allowing thoseproducts in the illegal market,
in the legal market.
Is a, is a, is a is a hugemistake in my estimation.
And then ignorance is notlisted.
(42:09):
You've got to be pricecompetitive right and you know,
think I think price is now we'vetalked about it, they're pretty
equivalent.
But you know what like afteryou take off the 30 to 40
percent off the top of your,your gross revenue, not your,
your net revenue, your grossrevenue and excise tax.
And then you know Regulatoryfees, another two point three
percent plus your provincialmarkup, your retailer markup,
(42:33):
like they'd be way moreaccessible.
Yeah, those are not costs thatthe illicit market bears.
So look you know, we'reregulated industry.
We have to bear some complianceand regulatory costs and
taxation etc.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I agree with all of that but it has to be rational
in the context of the market andright now it's not right now
it's not and we know like whereall that you said, what 1.3
roughly billion, where all thattax goes, like this.
Some come back, we have no idea.
Yeah, it's all a wazzy woozy.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
I know where it goes.
It goes into general treasury,right.
So pre legalization, I thinkthere were a lot of, if you
remember, there were a lot of, Ithink, government statements
about where that Capital wouldgo right to supporting public
health and safety, to doing moreresearch, to providing law
(43:23):
enforcement better tools, to,you know, understand the legal
market and and to providingpublic awareness about you know
why it.
You know legal market productis safer.
You know what are theadvantages of being in the legal
market, providing that publiceducation.
And you saw a little bit at thethe, the forefront.
(43:43):
But look, we're in ainflationary, high interest rate
environment.
The government has a lot ofSpending priorities and
unfortunately, like you know,the capital hasn't been
allocated there, even thoughwe're?
Speaker 2 (43:55):
we're low on the totem pole.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Well, even unfortunately, yeah, even like
the.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
OCS.
As a don't forget, I'm gonnagive you this before I forget
you go.
We grew our soil, the oilproject where we actually are
washing our plants.
Oh cool.
I legally grew this.
Four plants is my first indoorgrow.
Let me know what you think.
It's some.
Some willies wonder.
It's a very old genetic.
You can keep that with you,thank you.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Thank you, smells delicious and it looks
beautifully trimmed.
Yeah someone put in the workhere.
I appreciate that.
Thank you very much, fellas Ofcourse man Just wanted to.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
I'll get you some of the hash once we have it too.
I think we're expecting nine,ten grams a hash yield out of
everything that we gave to ourgood friend Bam.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Really, how much for us.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
I don't know, I can't .
We'll find out.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
I'll follow up on it.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
I think he told us like that would be.
You know, we didn't give himthat much playing material.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
So hey, man, any kind of it's precious when you grow
it yourself.
You know, and I, you, youunderstand all the effort that
goes into it.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah dude, it was a lot of work.
I will say yeah, and I honestlythink I could have done it
better.
And I'm now I'm motivated to doit better.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Yeah, I grow outdoor, outdoor plant for outdoor
plants, every single summer.
Oh wow, yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
You know it's, maybe you can turn yours in half if it
.
Yeah, I'm not super goodoutside weather.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I'm not super good at it because, like you know, I
focus and I lose focus at theexact wrong time, right like
harvest time.
But yeah, I enjoy it it's.
It's a great way to pass thetime in the summer every day.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Right, I am wheat.
I think the next thing we'regrowing is motor head, so it's a
motor.
Yeah, we got some clones.
There are some clones this time.
Last time we went straight fromseeds.
I'm hoping these genetics are alittle stronger but we'll see.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
We got a pure live resin Colab cart coming out.
What, yeah, that's the kind ofnext one for for the heads, for
sure you know.
I think you've, you've, you'veseen like we were first to
market with, like Premiumextract vapes, right like our
live.
Oh, who got?
Speaker 2 (45:50):
our award for that.
We gave you guys that award.
We're.
You guys won our space traveleraward for the wedding pie cart.
We had to give you kudos forhaving the first thank you,
market a lot of people have comeafterwards and but you know
like, I'm just wondering whoactually received it.
Yeah, is that on?
Speaker 1 (46:05):
your desk.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
We gave it to him.
Is it on your desk?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
It's probably in Mike , like for something else.
He's got the nice officecollects the awards.
But yeah, look, so we're.
We were first to market withthose.
I think it was we brought thoseon market really kind of at the
peak of the trend to, you know,fruit forward vapes, right, and
the the price of those inputswas obviously very high, so the
(46:31):
price of those carts had to bemore elevated.
And now we've seen this.
And then we saw the trend, likeyou know, in the US it was
already a thing with refinedresin, right, like you know,
distillate, enhanced Premiumextracts.
I think that is the prevailingtrend right now.
It because you know you getthis potency problem right, like
if it's a pure live extract,it's, it can't meet those
(46:52):
potency expectations thateveryone looks at.
But now we're starting to seethe consumer trend come back,
right, you know, to these sortof like more premium live
extracts.
And so you know we have refinedresin type of products, but
with the, you know, with themotor breath, it's gonna be just
pure live resin, likeunadulterated Let the, let the
(47:12):
extract speak for itself.
So looking forward to that one,you know that's doing yeah, for
sure.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
That's awesome, man.
I know you guys are got acherry.
I was excited about your sourcherry vape too.
I think that's yeah that one's.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
That one's a delicious vape.
That's under the back 40 line,so you know that's a little bit
more fun.
You know that's gonna be.
Yeah, it's more in that sort offruit kind of vape Thing.
It's delicious.
You know, I really like thatone.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
I think a strength to you guys with the vapes, and
I've always said this is likeyour hardware is killer.
You always pick great hardware.
I think I've only ever dog one.
That, dave, I remember we haveone regular that I think.
How many carts have I sold solike out of how many?
What can one like?
Definitely less than than anyother brand I can think of
anyway.
So yeah, it was for that.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yeah, look like you know our vision is really to be
a global leader and qualitycannabis products right, so we
always focus on the quality ofour product.
Vapes is, I think, in vapehardware right.
We just won the kind award thisyear for best vape hardware
there you go speaking of we have.
You know we have an a plusrating with the OCS for our vape
(48:17):
hardware, which is like thekind of lowest returns in the
industry.
Our co-lab cart is the highestquality cart in the industry,
right like period like this islike all metal body glass.
It's specifically tuned to ouroil.
You know high, high performance.
Any extract I taste in thatcard always tastes better than
any other cart, and we do.
(48:38):
You know we test differenthardware all the time and I
think the you know the qualityof our hardware is a real
competitive Strength.
I think there's lots ofcompanies that are doing great
things in vape.
I continue to think we're oneof the very best.
We've had tons of first to mark.
We were the first to marketwith a one gram vape cart.
We were the first to marketwith like a fruit forward there.
We were the first to marketwith a premium live extract only
(49:01):
cart.
Now we're the first to marketwith like a palm held all in one
right.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
So those were killing it by the Resing gummies to.
I feel like that was first tomarket.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
With resin, we're the first to market with an infuse
pre-roll.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Yeah, turp sticks yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
We made the wrong bet on that one.
We thought we could do like abetter job than you know, and so
we really worked on the inputand I think part of that was we
started that product beforehealth Canada came out and said
it's okay, you can mix classesof cannabis as long as you deem
it an extract.
Right, because, remember, underthe rules said, like, you can't
mix Classes, so it either hasto be an extract or it's gonna
be dried flower.
(49:37):
So we actually messed aroundwith our input for that and
created like a more refinedinput product that we thought
smoked better, was moreenjoyable, but you know we
couldn't get it to the superhigh potencies that eventually
like ruled the day.
So, like you know, we switchedour formulation now to be able
to Hit those consumerexpectations in our infuse
(49:58):
pre-rolls and we have some somecool products coming out on that
front as well.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
I love that man.
Now, you guys are alwayslistening and paying attention
and I feel like it comes marketleaders right yeah.
Yeah, comes from the top you go.
You're always paying attentionand listening to what we love
weed.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
So, like you know, we're Looking for hey, what's,
what's a great new product?
What?
What do we like to consume?
Right, and I think that youknow that really comes through
in terms of, like, our productfocus, like we're increasingly
focused on vapes and driedflower and pre-rolls, and you
guys know, right, like I'mthat's the flower.
(50:33):
I'm a flower guy, I know it's,it's maybe a little bit old
school, so I think like I'vealways grown up like loving
flower.
But the convenience of apre-roll is really.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
People are getting farther away from flower and and
getting more into those kindsof products we talked about that
of those things that are justeasier, I guess, for lack,
convenience and it's the qualityof those products too.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Right, like when pre-rolls first came out
everyone's using, kind of likeit was almost a way to use your,
your sort of like leftover,your product.
Now, you know, I look at ourpre-rolls and we use nothing but
whole flower.
It's the exact flower goes inthe bag.
We don't adulterate it withanything like turps or distill
it.
Let the flower speak for itself.
(51:15):
And, yeah, it's great.
I mean the.
You know I Still buy wholeflower regularly when I want to
roll like a bigger joint.
But, like you know, we also gotsomething coming out for that.
It's probably the product I'mmost excited about Coming out.
You know, I firmly believe likethis is my personal view that
the best way to consume cannabisis in a straight-roll format,
(51:37):
yeah, cone format.
I think even with today's,especially with today's higher
resin weed, right Like, by thetime I get to the end of a cone,
you'll get some cloning issues.
You know it's hard to get thatlike real good draw and like
this is great weed and you kindof feel like man, I look like
you just got to be a better way.
So I think with the straightroll it offers you that.
But you know, point three, fivesometimes isn't, isn't enough
(52:02):
for the occasion.
So we have a bigger jointcoming out in that format.
It's probably the product I'vebeen most excited for myself.
Cool consumption, the bigstraight roll yeah and yeah to
be out in the.
It'll be out in the launchingin spring.
Be in stores.
Look forward to that.
Just in time for you know, someare fun in your own back 40
(52:22):
that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Thanks for dropping by today.
Let's call the sheesh hotlinequickly.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
Yeah, look, you guys introduced me to the sheesh.
Yeah, you like, I know they'rea big part of what you do here.
I think Amazing, I still buy it.
You know, you guys introducedme to it.
It's, it's one of my favoritebeverages, so you know hats off.
Hats off to them.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
They're doing a great job show it to Matt and Jackie.
Just hash it out.
You might end up on ourInstagram, isn't it?
Beep?
What happened to the beep?
Please hold while we connectyour call to Let me know what
the hell happened there.
(53:03):
All right?
Show some, oh see you next,when you you.
Minus 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 8 inches, start 4, 3, 2, 1.
I'm Sean and I'm Charlie andthis is higher orbit.
You're gonna hit us with thewoo Woo.
(00:23):
Good morning everybody.
He needs another coffee.
We're back.
Wow, it's been a minute.
Happy holidays, happy new year,everybody.
We got an amazing guest in thehouse today.
Been a very special friend ofours and a supporter of the
Cosmic Charlie's brand andhigher orbit for some time now
actually.
Yeah, we can list off, I mean,the several brands and companies
(00:44):
that he's been a part of andhelped guide.
It's always like just to name afew.
I'm wearing this shirt, thesick cozy ass sweater.
He brought me back 40, prettymuch the top of the vape game.
You got Colab Project.
You got Doze.
Can you got?
What am I forgetting here?
I know I'm forgetting a brand.
Definitely Tons Tons 4A.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah, there's too many to name.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Other companies, but we got our boy, hugo Alves, in
the house.
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Thank you.
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Glad to be here.
Welcome to the plant.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Glad to be here, obviously that is if anyone
doesn't know.
We've been trying to make ithappen for some time.
I'm really glad you came on,man.
Thanks so much for being herewith us today.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Appreciate it, fellas .
Speaker 2 (01:23):
That's impressive stuff.
It's really impressive stuff.
Man, where do you want to start?
Where should we start History?
Well, I'm just spotting here.
I mean, I didn't know, you grewup in Ottawa.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
No, no, no, no, no.
Grew up in Hamilton, hamilton,I didn't know that.
East end of Hamilton, okay,absolutely Big part of who I am
100%.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Damn man Been around, stayed in Ontario Again just
kind of digesting some of this.
So I mean we know you have abackground, we've known you for
some time, like you've been ahuge supporter and friend of
ours.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Well, we're next door neighbors, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, for those who don't know, over at Cosmic
Charlie's down in the Bellwoodsarea, hugo set up shop.
How long has it?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
been Day one, day one , I think, you know, for your
audience that doesn't know Likearound the cannabis weekdays,
yeah.
Since day one.
That was our first office spaceever.
We've always been headquarteredlike 200 yards around the
corner from you guys.
You know we're representing thesix for sure.
Always been headquartered here,love the area.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Our local, your local shop, we'll say for most of the
holiday, 100%.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
This is my home base.
Yeah, this is the home shop,for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Always has been.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Day one since you guys opened.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, I can't state how much we really appreciate
the partnership and kind ofdeveloping a relationship with
you and it's always been so nicewhen you know you walk through
the door.
I'm like Hugo's here, I'm likewe get to talk about all the fun
stuff that's going on in theindustry and it's been like
quite a journey for Charlie andI as retailers and I'm sure for
you as a licensed producer.
Shit man, you're still around.
(02:58):
It's been like many years Likewhere did when did you know you
were going to get into cannabisand why did you get into this
crazy shit?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, like.
So, as I said, I grew up in theEast End of Hamilton and my my
journey in cannabis reallystarted as a consumer, and you
know it was ubiquitous.
It was around us all the timeand then I went high school high
school, high school days, yeah,and then I, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Do you remember the first time you smoked?
I'm going to ask you.
I don't think I've ever talkedto you about it.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I do remember the first time I smoked.
Yeah, it was nothing happened.
I was like, hmm, I don't knowwhy my friends, older brothers,
all think this is the coolestand why my parents, like you
know, think it's it's reallyevil, like nothing really
happened.
And then the second time iswhen something happened, but it
was after I'd been drinking abit, so like, what happened
(03:54):
wasn't wasn't that great, but Idon't know, call me determined.
I kept with it and thendiscovered, and I think
throughout my life it's been,it's been part of it and I think
it's in many ways it's beenkind of my secret weapon.
You know, as a, I think peopleof my age like you know we kind
(04:17):
of grew up watching, whether itwas in the media or in our own
homes, like watching.
You know our parents come homeafter a hard day and, you know,
have a drink to unwind.
Like my dad would come home.
He was a welder like and he'dcome home and have a beer every
single day If it was a tough day, like you know, two beers.
But so you kind of like youknow you're, you're brought up
(04:40):
in that hey, there's somethingto take the edge off.
But like, alcohol never reallydid it for me, right, like in my
career path I've always workedreally hard, had like in a high,
you know, high demanding joband as you you get older and you
guys are going through this now, right, with young families,
like it's really really busy,work is demanding.
But then you also want to bepresent at home.
(05:01):
And I found where a lot of mycolleagues would have, you know,
go and have a drink or do this,but it couldn't really
disconnect, like I'd have a highdemanding job where I was
working till like midnight, onea one am in the morning, uh,
mentally really stimulating, soit's hard to turn your mind off.
And I found I can smoke half ajoint, a joint, like like the
(05:22):
minute I get out of here ontothe street and like that I was
disconnected and present withwhat I was doing.
So I thought it allowed me towork really hard but then also
have that mental break where,like I wasn't getting burnt out
and also be really present withmy family, be a good dad, be a
good husband.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I totally agree.
I find that like with myconsumption to really like can
give you that confidence youknow, and and help you get a
really good sleep, which I thinkis you know, a lot of people
use it under.
Underestimated.
I know we're not supposed totalk about that in like a retail
environment, but I meananything that can help you get a
better sleep and get a betterstart to your day and feel more
well.
Rested is good on my books,yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
That self-medicating part of it, right Like, is, uh,
maybe growing up like wasn't thefocus.
It's always been fun, right, um, you know, brought us closer
together as like friends with my, with my friends, but also,
yeah, like I said, in myprofessional life, it was always
not, it was always mixed in bigin, but you'd have to keep it
secret.
(06:19):
Right, I wasn't showing up atmy law firm going, oh yeah, I
smoked it.
Right, I got great sleep.
I'm ready to go today.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Probably mostly frowned upon in general and, uh,
I'm not seen, like you knowwhat I mean and like the I guess
, legal world.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, stigma has definitely evolved over the last
10 years, right, and that'sbeen one of the, I think, the
great boons, but also one of thegreat challenges like,
ironically, of legalization isis the, you know,
destigmatization, that sort ofreally changing social views
towards cannabis use and, whenit's appropriate, and you know
(06:55):
what, what functions or what,what, what, what, what, what it
can do for people.
Right, and I'm we're drivenlike at Oxley and myself and our
founders were, you know, we'vealways been firm believers that
you know cannabis helps peoplelive happier lives and that's
really what we strive for.
Our products are, you know,simple and uncomplicated.
They're meant to have fun, um,and I think it's it's that
(07:19):
belief that you know this is a,a substance that is net benefit
to humanity, um, and and canhelp people live like, more
present, more connected, happierlives.
It really drives a lot of the,the passion that we have and and
the way we think about productsthat we bring to market and how
we position our brands.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Definitely, man.
I think you kind of nailed iton the head there, and
especially compared to, like alot of the other I quote,
unquote, sin kind of substances,I would say that cannabis kind
of brings the most benefit tothe table and you're talking
about, I don't know Absolutelyand we could argue about that a
lot.
But of course I mean I thinkit's harm reduction, like when
you made the comparison withalcohol, right, like there's.
(08:00):
There's a huge difference therein terms of what it does for
your health, your mental health,um, and how it's used, Uh, but
just to dial it back.
So I mean great story.
Obviously, you know thatpassion's there.
I've never really fullyunderstood her craft because
you've always had, you know, alot of hands and things, um, but
like going back to legalization, when Oxley came about, I don't
(08:21):
even know what he actually likecirca date, like what's going
on with you?
go then, like you know, I knowyou were really integrated where
you were doing and then lawschanging Right, the law is
changing, yes.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
So, look, I went to, I went to UT law and I was there
right when the seminalconstitutional law cases were
working their way through thecourt.
Um and uh, I had a greatconstitutional law professor who
was, uh, you know, he's likeone of these kind of like wild
rebel personalities.
So he was, he was veryinterested in this and, of
(08:55):
course, like I was veryinterested in it too, because I
loved weed.
Um, and then, you know, therewas RV Parker in 2000,.
Right, Really flip the scriptin terms of the way cannabis
legalization was going toproceed in Canada, right that?
I think that's.
That's always one of the keydifferences.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Parker, sorry, I don't actually know.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I think it was a sort of appeal case in 2000 that
held that, you know, restrictingaccess to cannabis was
unconstitutional, okay, okay, itviolated your section seven,
charter rights and, um, you know, that's important and can't
look in the U?
S right, the genesis oflegalization is people wrote a
(09:37):
bill, you know, mobilize thevote, got it onto the ballot and
then voted into law in Canada.
The genesis, totally different,right?
So there's really really sickpeople who you know are at
they've they've exhaustedconventional medicine, cannabis,
the only thing that helps them.
So they have that right totheir security of person, right.
(09:58):
You have the right to try, andyou know, protect your health.
It's constitutionally enshrined.
But you also have the right to,you know, security of person.
You shouldn't be subject toprosecution.
And by trying to pursue yourcharter right to, you know, to
your healthcare.
And the court found that thatwas in fact, you know,
(10:21):
constitutionally invalid to putthat restriction and told the
government to go back and, asthey do, pass a constitutionally
compliant law.
And they did that with the MMARright, right.
And so here I am.
I just graduated law school, I'man Articling student,
bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, onBay Street, and you know, a lot
(10:44):
of my high school friends arelike, hey, man, we need legal
now, like we gotta, can you helpme fill out these forms?
And I did and quickly realizedlike this is probably not gonna
be like a legal practice for me,right, like I was like a
student.
So I went back to being alawyer, right, and practicing on
Bay Street and working withreally smart people and high-end
(11:08):
deals and really cut my teethin terms of understanding how
finance works, understanding howcorporate transactions work and
how regulation works.
I've always been kind ofregulatory focused in my
practice areas.
And then in 2013, you know, thegovernment passed the MMPR
(11:30):
right, which was really afundamental shift, and I
remember reading what were themega differences?
The mega differences were likeunder the previous regime, you
were regulating people, right,you were regulating the sick
person.
So you're going to get adiagnosis saying it's within
this list of diagnosis is you goand get a second opinion, a
(11:53):
confirmation of diagnosis, fillout a form and then the
government's like you can buyweed.
Originally it was you can onlybuy from us, right, which was
the old prairie plant systemsgrow.
So it didn't work out, you knowit wasn't very good.
And then the constitutionalcases kept evolving to allow
people to you know, let someoneelse grow for you, right, right,
(12:13):
I remember this.
And then, hey, I can't get costefficiency with just one person
.
It's too prohibitive, I stilldon't have reasonable access.
So hits that came along, likeyou know.
Another case said okay, you canaggregate grows, you know, to
make it more cost effective.
So the constitutional landscapewas changing, but a lot of it
was still you're regulatingpeople, right, and like sick
people are shouldn't be thesubject of the regulatory regime
(12:35):
.
So what this did is it changedthe focus of regulation to
production and distribution,right, and what I had saw from
my previous experience ofbuilding a business in a
regulated industry within thelaw firm is like, okay, well,
this changes everything becauseyou know companies are gonna
have compliance obligations,they're gonna have regulatory
(12:58):
things.
So I thought this is great.
This gives us an opportunity toactually, you know, have
clients that you know a bit.
Yeah, like a Bay Street lawfirm can help.
Right, that has the like.
They're the appropriate fit.
So, with a colleague of minewho's now the Oxley president,
right, mike Lickford, you knowone of the, you know, great,
(13:21):
great partner in all of this andone of the, I think, real key,
key figures for me in myprofessional career, even though
he's, you know, technically,like you know we're mentor,
mentee, but that's now we're,you know, we're just lifelong
friends that run a businesstogether.
But I remember going to him andsaying, you know, mike, we
should, we should focus on this.
(13:43):
Right, we had great practices.
You know I was very active intech and renewable energy and
things like that, but we werevery passionate about cannabis.
So that's the driving.
You know, the driving force isthat sort of I can mesh my
personal and professionalpassions here and we just took
(14:04):
the position hey, like no oneknows more about this than we do
, no one knows more about theregulatory landscape that we do.
And, you know, we kind oflooked at each other, we, you
know, and we said, yeah, proveus wrong, right Like.
And then we cracked the booksright Like.
We really put in the elbowgrease.
We worked like two jobseffectively for two years during
the day we were doing our loss.
(14:26):
The firm thing right, like youknow, meeting expectations.
And then during the evening wewere, you know, networking,
talking to anyone who had aninterest in the subject.
We were writing articles, wewere working with the you know
conference providers.
And you know, the key thing iswe always had this notion that
(14:48):
just because we're all, you know, we're these sort of like
lawyers, like we have to investour time right.
So that was the very that waslike.
The thing that really separatedus from other advisors in the
space is we were willing to givepeople time, we were willing to
sit down, meet them, understandwhat they were going through
and then try and help them.
And that led to us acting for,like a lot of the early, early
(15:13):
companies that at the beginningthere were startups, they had no
money, but then they becamelike the seminal companies in
the space.
Whether that was you know, theearly pubcos, with you know,
tweet that became canopy, etcetera.
Whether that was with you knowinstitutions, lyft, the various
conferences.
We played, you know, key rolesright at the beginning of all of
(15:36):
those companies.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Didn't you tell me that you had you helped co-found
Lyft?
Was that is that right?
Did you tell me that?
Or you helped, helped somehowbring it to fruition anyways.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, lyft was started by Tyler Sokachoff out
of Vancouver, great entrepreneur, and early days it was more of
a website.
And then what really changedfor Lyft is they said we want to
do one of these kind ofconference events and I remember
back then it was like, you know, no one had resources and that
(16:07):
first Lyft conference was reallyit was Tyler and then a guy
named Alex Revich, who's stillin the industry, right, still,
you know he's had various roles,but Mike Lickford and then
Mateo Oluru, who you know at thetime was like a law student,
but then eventually he reallywanted to be in cannabis, and I
(16:27):
remember the four of them likeby themselves.
How did you get involved?
They called you or.
Well, I was, yeah, like I was, Iwas kind of the we were their
lawyer.
Go on it.
Yeah, we were their lawyer, wewere their startup lawyer.
And then, and then Mike kind oflike got co-opted into that
foursome of of putting the thefirst Lyft conference together
and you know that was really howit started and grew from there.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And that's such a big one.
I'm curious cause you mentionedyou know you were able to give
time to all these companies andhelp start them off.
When was it and you mentionedthis to me before when you were
like, why are we doing all thiswork for these guys?
Like let's start our ownfucking?
Like it was actually alwaysmeant to be.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
you know, you guys, you know it's not part of the
plan.
Yeah, Look, we started justgoing.
You know we're lawyers, let's,let's be lawyers.
It's something we love, rightand, oh my God, like, what could
be better, right, Like?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
You gave me the network opportunity network with
all these people too, rightyeah we met.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
We met great people.
We had like all this greatincreased access to weed.
Like a lot of people couldn'tlike hey, we but they'd give us
weed Like this is the greatestthing of all time.
I'm always happy to accept weedsamples, always, and no, it's
over time.
We acted for about 70% of allindustry participants, so we
(17:46):
acted for like almost everybody.
And you know, look, it was likeanything else.
It was getting more competitive, more crowded.
We were running into a lot ofconflicts but we were also
running into a lot ofopportunity.
We had a lot of a lot ofclients and a lot of companies
that weren't clients coming tous and saying, hey, have you
ever thought of joining industry, joining a company?
And we were working on aproject with a client and it was
(18:10):
different right, it wasdifferent than anything else
that was out there and theyreally involved us both in terms
of, like, our legal expertise,but really our industry
expertise.
And then they gave us anopportunity.
They said, look like we'dreally like you to join.
It was with Chuck.
Rafichi was gonna be leading.
I knew Chuck from early days,like he was an early client at
(18:31):
Canopy.
I met him at the ribbon cuttingof the Tweed facility in Smith
Falls and I remember Chucksaying, look, I'm thinking of
doing this business, but I wannado it if you do it.
He offered me like obviously,great, great terms, like I could
bring my team with me, etcetera, cause we're very team
(18:52):
focused and, honestly, like itwas really one of those moments
in life where you sit back andgo okay, I've got a great
profile in the industry.
This is like I love thisindustry more than like you know
any other that I've worked in.
I've got this great opportunitywhere I can go with my friends.
(19:13):
If these aren't the conditionsfor me to take a risk, then what
conditions have to exist, likewhat has to exist for me to like
take a leap and leave thisreally like established?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
career.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
And I was like, if it's not these conditions, I'm
dying at that desk and look likeI love being a lawyer, like
there was no problem, like Ialways loved what I did right,
and I was a lawyer for 20 years.
But I've always had anentrepreneurial streak I've
always dreamed about.
You know, I've always helpedentrepreneurs as part of my
(19:46):
business.
I had opportunities to go intobusiness before.
I didn't take them, so I didn'twant to.
Like you know, you got to lookat yourself in the mirror every
morning.
I didn't want to live with theregret, yeah.
So I took the leap and you knowwhat.
It hasn't worked.
You know the way we thought itwas is common in life.
But no regrets, I'm super happyI did it.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
That actually takes me.
I had a question I wanted toask you Well we'll save it for
the next segment I have anotherone too, but do you remember
where your first product was?
What was the first product youguys launched?
That's a good, quick one, toleave it on quick one.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Oh, we launched a portfolio and it was.
It was, but it was.
Vapes and addables were themain products.
Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Nice 2.0.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, still in the market, though, blackberry cream
, mango hay strawberry ice,we'll be right back and don't
forget sheesh is the officialsponsor of higher orbit.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
We're back.
We've got Hugo Alves, Founderand CEO of Oxley Corp.
High times top 100.
When was that?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, let's talk about that one.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
I don't know if that's really cool, like that's
basically if your rocks arebeing on the cover, being a
Rolling Stone, almost, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah it's, it's flattering.
I think it's going from.
It was one of those momentsright when we all grew up
reading high times and it was,you know, if you got yourself an
issue of high times, it wascool.
We go over to my friends, youknow, or we gather in my
friend's basement and you knowthe parents were, you know,
(21:18):
would have an issue of hightimes.
We, we, we read it.
It was always.
Yeah, it was like how we got.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
I think you cracked the top 10.
Am I wrong?
I think you were number nine.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I think it's just the top 100.
I know I put through the pagesand you were.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
you were farther back , yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
It was.
It was a lovely piece ofrecognition and yeah, that is.
It was great to see you know,go from reading the magazine as
a youngster to be seeing yourpicture in it.
Yeah, it was a great, greatmoment.
That's what I was saying.
My kids don't understand whyit's so cool.
They're like what are hightimes?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
What is that?
Yeah, yeah, but kids consume.
Do you have a relationship withthem in the plant?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah, so yes, they, my oldest does, my youngest, you
know, doesn't.
But yeah, we, we, you know heprobably will at some point.
But yeah, we've always had anopen conversation about it,
right, Like they've always knownwhat I've done.
(22:14):
It's been important that youknow my, my, my conversation
with my parents, a very, youknow, european right.
Yeah, like this is drugs.
Oh my God, my son the drugs.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
It's a hard line, right.
They're like it is drugs.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, but now it's different.
You know, my mother, you know,passed away last year,
unfortunately.
But yeah, no, I appreciate it,but it was great before she
passed away, right?
And this sort of like elderlyPortuguese woman who, like, grew
up in that.
You know, marijuana is drugs,but you know, I started.
I got her to try an edible, noshit, yeah, yeah, half a half a
(22:53):
foray salt to caramel square.
She didn't even know and I, youknow she didn't even know.
But yeah, yeah, I just admitteddosing my mama All right.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Well, hey, let's.
I would say that's a good.
That's a good, friendly starterdose.
What do you know what?
Speaker 1 (23:10):
You said she was incredible time right, some of
the best memories we have now ofher in kind of that later stage
in her life where she's goingthrough health issues and you
know life is a bigger challengehave been while she's been, you
know, at our house for holidaysand it's after dinner and we,
like you know, gave her a half,a half a chocolate or and then
she started taking themvoluntarily, right, she knew
(23:30):
what was going on.
It's not like we dosed herbeyond that, it was just to go.
Hey, do you remember?
Do you remember last night?
Yeah, like I was cannabis, so Iremember it was like Christmas
Eve or something and she, we hada big dinner and then the half
chocolate and then she starteddancing with, like my son and
you know she was having a greattime and you know it didn't
(23:50):
matter what I did at my house,like she would always complain
about the sleep, right, she'dalways oh, you know you could
make noise to you, to get up toolate or whatever She'd always
get up super early and makenoise and it would be like I
know you're just doing this toget me up and woke up the next
day and like there was no noiseLike I woke up naturally and go
downstairs and my mom comes upfrom her bedroom.
(24:14):
She's like just getting you back.
Like oh, it's just slept sogood.
Like.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we got a new bed.
It's called weed.
Congratulations, You're full ofcloud.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Maya.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah.
So you know I it really, yeah,it really helped, helped her
tremendously.
My dad also was like never evensmoked a cigarette in his life.
You know, I got to take him toto our cultivation facility, Got
to see that he tried, triedsmoking a joint with me.
So it's, it's amazing just tosee the change in attitudes and,
(24:47):
you know, in their generation.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
No, I think it's great when you can bond over
cannabis.
I think I've said this before,but the first time I ever
consumed was with my mom, andit's something that I hold dear
and close to my heart.
I lied to her and told her thatI had consumed before, and
she's like okay, here you go.
And I didn't know what to do.
I didn't inhale and she's likeare you sure you've done that
before, because you're notactually inhaling it?
And then she told me how toinhale and the rest is history.
(25:10):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
So yeah, my daughter now comes into and she's like,
do you have any more of thoseice grape pre-rolls?
You know, if she's over, youknow over on the weekend,
they're going to watch her move.
I'm like, yeah it is.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
It is a you know it is a it takes.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, it was a strange feeling at first.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
The dad keeps asking you, you want the infused
pre-rolls.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Sure, here you go.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, I think as long as you're having those healthy
conversations.
You said you're open andcommunicative.
And I don't know.
I'm a new parent, Charlie, soonto be, I guess I just announced
it.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah, congratulations , charlie, on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, that's exciting news.
We were chatting aboutsomething just before.
Thank you both, of course.
Just before we got to thesegment and, obviously, having
you shopped here for a while andyou know, having those
conversations, do you think,like, those 40, $50 jars are
here to stay, like I feel likethat's the thing that just came
around during legalization andlike in general.
(26:10):
Like the flour, like buyingweed.
Yeah, the three and a halfgrand.
You're a pretty hard price, cutoff guy.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah, look, I think that there's all sorts of
different consumers, right, andI think that there are people
that you know the high, reallypremium priced three and a half
gram jar.
I think that will be here tostay.
You know, don't know what thevolumes will change or not, as
people look for, you know, findwhat they like and look for for,
(26:42):
like larger formats or biggervalue.
But myself, my own consumption,you know habits, like I'm in
here a lot, I talk to you guys alot about what you're smoking
and what you're seeing and yeah,there's a lot of great weed at
the kind of top tier.
I kind of like for my ownpurchasing thing, like I'm you
know I've talked to you guysbefore like I look for one kind
(27:04):
of like is the person who'sselling it to me, the person
that grew it, because I thinkyou know, when you start
inserting people into that valuechain like now I'm, you know
I'm not paying, like or the growyour.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
I'm not paying.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Like you know, I'm not getting maximum value for
that dollar right.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Someone's taking a little slice.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yeah, there's like there's some like middle cuts
along the way.
So I do tend to look for, youknow, the artisan that's put his
, you know, put his or her, youknow product in the bag and
that's theirs.
And so I will and I will pay alittle bit more for that, for
sure.
And then I look for what's,what's happening in and around
(27:43):
kind of the price points wherewe play right, who, who our
competitors are, I think youknow, whether it's back 40 or
collab, I think we offer anexcellent product, always had a
great value, and you know we'retrying to, we're trying to help
people, you know, have fun, livea happier life right, and a lot
of that is access, a lot ofthat's being able to access it.
(28:05):
And you know, I think pricedoes play a role in that.
So I like to see, yeah, what'sin it, around that value where
I'm like this is, this is kindof where I'm okay, got it.
You know, on a day to day basiswith my kind of like spend and
consumption.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I was thinking that collab, if I'm not wrong, I
always thought of it as more ofa premium brand, like when we
first kind of got into it and Igot to come back to Charlie's
question.
I've kind of noticed the pricesof collab come down.
Would you call it?
It is premium but it's notanymore, I kind of.
Would you kind of agree withthat?
Speaker 1 (28:40):
I think it's indicative of just the general
trend towards increased value.
Yeah, it started off at apremium price point.
Now I would say it's at like acore price point, right,
accessible to everyone.
And some of that is just drivenby the fact that prices in the
industry have come down.
Like when we started our firstproducts, like everyone referred
(29:01):
to, like the cannabis tax,everything was like double right
Because, you know, cannabis wassupposed to be this big
financial boon.
So everyone, from, like yoursupplier to your service
provider, would be like, well,you know there's additional risk
, or the volumes are this, oryou know you guys are gonna,
you're gonna sell at a highprice.
So everything from packagingthings were really expensive and
(29:24):
inputs were expensive, right,whether you're buying live resin
or whether you're, you know,buying cannabis.
And so, as the prices have comedown over time, it's allowed
you to, you know, adjust yourpricing to be more competitive
with the illicit market.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
And make it more accessible to consumers right.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Definitely.
I noticed in my research likeyou guys got a critical
investment like right before 2.0.
Did you see cannabis 2.0 asthat opportunity to kind of like
become the leaders in thespaces of that time?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, look again, I would say, like you know, one of
the things that set us apart atthe early days was we were
regulatory experts, right, Likewe really understood the
regulations and where they weregoing and what the different
classes of licenses could do andhow to get them and how they
would evolve over time.
Right, Because it's important.
And then when we looked atOxley like our own kind of
(30:19):
platform, we're like it's gonnabe a long time before we've
built our facilities and we'regonna get flour out of the door.
And by that time we just felt,man, we're so behind, right,
Like so many people in front ofus, and we knew, like we just
knew, this was before it hadbeen announced, before there
(30:41):
were regulations, before 2.0 wasa word Got it.
But we knew that if the publichealth and safety objectives of
the Cannabis Act were gonna beachieved as a fundamental you
know and it's a fundamentalideological point I think we're
still fighting on then we haveto be competitive with the
illicit market, right, and like,I think, at a very base
(31:03):
fundamental level, common senseis you have to offer similar
products, right, or else you'rejust not gonna compete right, If
there are products widelyavailable that are popular in
the illicit market.
You can offer them in the legalmarket.
Guess what Consumers are gonnago to the illicit market,
especially in today'senvironment, where it's easier
than ever and there's like lessfocus on enforcement than ever.
(31:26):
Stigma is gone right.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
What do you think needs to change?
I'm gonna ask you that becauseI do think that there's just
like I know in Toronto it's abigger issue with illicit stores
just opening like crazy, but Ithink in general it's still here
from a lot of people.
It's not being enforced.
It's a great time to be anillicit operator.
Yeah yeah, I mean yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Wow, for sure.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Look, it's what needs to change.
I guess is all I'm saying.
What do you think needs tochange from your you know?
Do you need to enforce it?
Do you enforce the laws thatare there?
Do you enforce it?
Does the law need to change?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Well, look, I think you know what legalization's
done is.
It's taken a lot of the stigmaaway in cannabis use, right Like
now if you see like a19-year-old or whatever, like a
person walking down the streetwith a joint, not worried about
getting busted?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, not worried about getting busted.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
And what it's done is it's really shifted law
enforcement priorities to otherpriorities, right, like they've
got a lot of competingpriorities, and then the excise
taxation that's been collected,right, like one point one and a
quarter billion dollars in 2023.
Wow, that money hasn't beenallocated to law enforcement,
(32:31):
right, exactly, so it's kind ofthere going look, I don't have
the resources, right, like a lotof officers, like you know,
it's hard to tell.
Illicit and legal marketproducts is apart, and they've
got fentanyl, they've got, youknow, other healthcare, other
law enforcement priorities.
So they kind of go.
Unless it's a real problem orsomething bad happens, like you
(32:53):
know, they don't enforce.
I don't think enforcement isreally, you know, probably the
catalyst.
They have to have a vibrant,diverse legal market that can
compete with the illicit market.
You know, I think one of thebig.
It is a big challenge and oneof the impediments is, like the
data on the illicit market sucks.
(33:15):
Of course it's a joke, right,right, let me see.
We got a stats can so theypiggyback to stats can household
spending, right, right, survey.
So you got the federalgovernment going.
I'm talking to consumers aboutsomething where you spend your
household money.
I'm going to throw a couplelike cannabis questions in there
(33:35):
and ask consumers federalgovernment asking you do you buy
from like legal sources or doyou break the law?
Yeah, and then, oh well, 60 orwhatever percent said said that
they don't only buy from legalsources.
So we've got this black marketbeat.
This is like a survey of 2,300respondents.
Right, and it's kind of used asa shield in some instances.
Right, like everyone knowswhat's happening in the illicit
(34:00):
market in edibles.
Right, like high THC.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Cheap price.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Cheap prices Maybe not actually Harder to youth,
definitely Right In theirmarketing.
And then everyone knows whathappened when we had the edible
extracts category, right, likethat these people took like an
innovative approach.
Right, ogi and other companiestook an innovative approach,
then I guess some Six millionmonths, six million dollars per
month in additional consumerdemand for those products, right
(34:29):
?
Wow, like that is how muchincremental demand.
And then, when those productscame off the market, Disappeared
.
That six million didn't go intoregular edibles or back into
flour.
It just disappeared.
Where did it go?
I wonder where to go.
People are not legallyavailable anymore.
I guess I won't buy them.
No, I went back to the illicitmarket.
But yet, you know, when youtalk to public health
stakeholders, who are veryconcerned, right, like they
(34:52):
don't want artificial demandbeing created, they don't want
appealing to youth, they're veryconcerned about the Potential
impact of like high dosageedibles in like a minor right,
like you know, toddler getsahold of it and they will point
to that data on.
Well, you know, because we'llsay, hey, we need to offer the
same products as the illicitmarket to compete with the
(35:12):
illicit market.
These products are alreadythere.
They're dangerous, they'reuntested, they're high THC.
Yeah, you know, they'retargeted at youth.
You need us to offer theseproducts To pull that demand out
of the illicit market and helpprotect public health and safety
and help bring more sales to usas retailers too.
Yeah, listen of course, to helpsupport the legal industry,
because you need a healthy andIn vibrant legal industry to
(35:35):
compete right.
Like you wouldn't send aflyweight Mount, like you know,
hasn't trained in a couple yearsto fight like Mike Tyson in the
ring right.
Like, just not so yeah, youneed a credible challenger or
else it's not gonna work.
But because you don't have thisgreat data on the illicit
market and what's really goingon, it becomes like a data point
.
Yeah, it's a shield.
(35:56):
Oh yeah, you know what?
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I don't know what you're talking about doesn't
know about that.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Yeah, we've already beat the illicit market and you
know we don't need to putCanadians at risk for to get
those last few consumers thatare still going to the illicit
market.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, you know I got a question for you guys.
No, I'm just because we've comesuch a long way.
Like you think about all theproducts, a vibrant market, like
we have a pretty vibrant market, I would argue.
We're increasing to 150 storesfor operator, not great for,
maybe, independence.
You know, it is what it is butit's still gonna help, is what
it is right.
You talk about economicallyAttrition, but do you think
(36:31):
there's some degree of likeromanticizing, like the illicit
market versus the legal market,like even we still talk about it
and sometimes you still getBilly fire weed on the black
market?
and some people will neverbelieve in the legal market or
that joke.
I don't know if you guys sawthat joke recently where it's
like he's like I would really goto a dispensary that catered
towards those illicit marketexperiences, you know.
Like instead of like an Applestore.
(36:52):
Just a guy on a couch.
He said, and I kind of feellike that's true, right.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, look, I think I Think that's one of the one of
the big challenges in ourindustry and I think it, you
know, ties into that point isour ability to communicate with
our consumer.
Hmm, right, and yeah, you gointo a good illicit market
dispensary, right, you know, youcan just see the product.
(37:17):
You guys can talk about theproduct you like, you know
you're talking claims, your yousay whatever you want whatever
you want, you know, you cansmell it and buy with your nose,
you can buy with your eyes andthat creates, I think, like a
more, a richer retail experiencewhere, like there's less
disappointment, you know whatyou're buying, right, you've
seen it, you've smelled it.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Here we got.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
We got, like you know mylar bags you can't see
through.
They all look the same, exceptmaybe a different color Can't
say much to your consumer, whichleads to Consumers basically
making decisions based on priceand potency for the most part.
So, yeah, it's difficult, right, it's difficult.
You don't.
You don't.
You don't get the same Kind ofnuance in that experience and
(38:00):
that.
But also I think that's one ofthe key Opportunities that you
guys have done so well here inCharlie's is bringing that
richness, you know, and thatnuance to your experience.
Right, like one of the greatthings about coming in here is
talking to you guys, about youknow what products you're seeing
and what you're smoking and youknow what you're hearing.
Bringing that kind of like veryPersonalized customer service
(38:25):
is, yeah, one of the the sort ofkey differentiators.
I think that's that you guysapart.
Thanks, you go Lots of lots ofgood recommendations, including
C.
She showed it here.
So there you go.
That the champions.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I was like not sure I was gonna crack one, but I'm
gonna do it, you know 12somewhere, it doesn't really
matter.
Yeah, no, yeah, it's just.
It's funny.
I always think about kind ofthe illicit market and just
certain people's opinions andeven, obviously, sean, having
done it before and, like youknow, we do delivery now and I
just like remember the old days.
(38:58):
It's like I'm getting adelivery, I'm waiting on this
guy one hour, two hours.
Yeah, where are you, dude?
I'm on my way.
He's like three hours go by nowit's like 15 minutes.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, I'm calling you .
Speaker 2 (39:07):
They're calling you always my weed, I left you with
dollar tip.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yeah, how easy people forget.
Right, that's not an app onyour phone.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Why?
Why are we so like?
We're fixated on the blackmarket.
I mean, I don't know, to somedegree I think we'll get there.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I think so.
I think we will for sure.
Yeah, you know slow and steady.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah, I'm gonna let you marinate on this one before
I come back.
What's the the biggest Um Thingyou'd like to see change in our
industry, whether it be thatable limit?
Can you see the weed Hugo?
What do you think is gonna pushit forward?
Speaker 1 (39:40):
I guess yeah no problem, that's an easel.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
We're back.
We'll be right back with Hugomoxley.
Welcome back back at the shop.
Yeah, we got open soon.
I don't open soon.
One more segment with a goodfriend, hugo from oxy oxy.
Welcome back, hugo, thanks.
(40:05):
I asked you.
Yeah, what do you want to seechange man taxes?
I should have known that wasgonna be your answer.
Yeah, for sure.
Look like.
I don't think Like the taxationand fee regime in our industry
is ridiculous and I think evenyou know CRA finance recognize
it.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
But yeah, it's hard to give up one, one and a
quarter billion bucks a year,but I think like there is
nothing that makes a biggerimpact Industry-wide right in
terms of the survivability ofthe legal industry, in terms of
the diversity Of the legalindustry, in terms of the
diversity of the legal industry.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
And when you think about it too, I always say that
our industry really was likeborn during the pandemic I mean
2018, sure, but like thingsreally started to flourish
around 2020 and so we alreadyhad to go through that as, like
you know, a young industry stilltrying to find its Kind of
place, and I think that, uh,it's time to give some back to
Hugo.
That's all I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah, listen, we, we, like I said, you can't the.
We have decades of evidence Tosay that command and control
policies do not work For harmreduction.
In in, you know, drugs, youknow.
So the illicit market's goingto win that fight every single
(41:26):
time.
So if, if you really do want toaccomplish the public health
and safety objectives of thecannabis act, if you want to
keep kids safe, change the tax.
Yeah, if you want, if you want,if you want to diminish the
illicit market, you need avibrant, diverse challenger.
You need someone, thegovernment needs a partner, to
go in and and provide a crediblechallenger.
(41:49):
And with the turds, currenttaxation levels, like, forget it
Right, like you've got to offerthe same products, yeah, or
similar products.
So you know being blind towhat's happening in the illicit
market and not allowing thoseproducts in the illegal market,
in the legal market.
Is a, is a, is a is a hugemistake in my estimation.
And then ignorance is notlisted.
(42:09):
You've got to be pricecompetitive right and you know,
think I think price is now we'vetalked about it, they're pretty
equivalent.
But you know what like afteryou take off the 30 to 40
percent off the top of your,your gross revenue, not your,
your net revenue, your grossrevenue and excise tax.
And then you know Regulatoryfees, another two point three
percent plus your provincialmarkup, your retailer markup,
(42:33):
like they'd be way moreaccessible.
Yeah, those are not costs thatthe illicit market bears.
So look you know, we'reregulated industry.
We have to bear some complianceand regulatory costs and
taxation etc.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I agree with all of that but it has to be rational
in the context of the market andright now it's not right now
it's not and we know like whereall that you said, what 1.3
roughly billion, where all thattax goes, like this.
Some come back, we have no idea.
Yeah, it's all a wazzy woozy.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
I know where it goes.
It goes into general treasury,right.
So pre legalization, I thinkthere were a lot of, if you
remember, there were a lot of, Ithink, government statements
about where that Capital wouldgo right to supporting public
health and safety, to doing moreresearch, to providing law
(43:23):
enforcement better tools, to,you know, understand the legal
market and and to providingpublic awareness about you know
why it.
You know legal market productis safer.
You know what are theadvantages of being in the legal
market, providing that publiceducation.
And you saw a little bit at thethe, the forefront.
(43:43):
But look, we're in ainflationary, high interest rate
environment.
The government has a lot ofSpending priorities and
unfortunately, like you know,the capital hasn't been
allocated there, even thoughwe're?
Speaker 2 (43:55):
we're low on the totem pole.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Well, even unfortunately, yeah, even like
the.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
OCS.
As a don't forget, I'm gonnagive you this before I forget
you go.
We grew our soil, the oilproject where we actually are
washing our plants.
Oh cool.
I legally grew this.
Four plants is my first indoorgrow.
Let me know what you think.
It's some.
Some willies wonder.
It's a very old genetic.
You can keep that with you,thank you.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Thank you, smells delicious and it looks
beautifully trimmed.
Yeah someone put in the workhere.
I appreciate that.
Thank you very much, fellas Ofcourse man Just wanted to.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
I'll get you some of the hash once we have it too.
I think we're expecting nine,ten grams a hash yield out of
everything that we gave to ourgood friend Bam.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Really, how much for us.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
I don't know, I can't .
We'll find out.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
I'll follow up on it.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
I think he told us like that would be.
You know, we didn't give himthat much playing material.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
So hey, man, any kind of it's precious when you grow
it yourself.
You know, and I, you, youunderstand all the effort that
goes into it.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah dude, it was a lot of work.
I will say yeah, and I honestlythink I could have done it
better.
And I'm now I'm motivated to doit better.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Yeah, I grow outdoor, outdoor plant for outdoor
plants, every single summer.
Oh wow, yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
You know it's, maybe you can turn yours in half if it
.
Yeah, I'm not super goodoutside weather.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I'm not super good at it because, like you know, I
focus and I lose focus at theexact wrong time, right like
harvest time.
But yeah, I enjoy it it's.
It's a great way to pass thetime in the summer every day.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Right, I am wheat.
I think the next thing we'regrowing is motor head, so it's a
motor.
Yeah, we got some clones.
There are some clones this time.
Last time we went straight fromseeds.
I'm hoping these genetics are alittle stronger but we'll see.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
We got a pure live resin Colab cart coming out.
What, yeah, that's the kind ofnext one for for the heads, for
sure you know.
I think you've, you've, you'veseen like we were first to
market with, like Premiumextract vapes, right like our
live.
Oh, who got?
Speaker 2 (45:50):
our award for that.
We gave you guys that award.
We're.
You guys won our space traveleraward for the wedding pie cart.
We had to give you kudos forhaving the first thank you,
market a lot of people have comeafterwards and but you know
like, I'm just wondering whoactually received it.
Yeah, is that on?
Speaker 1 (46:05):
your desk.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
We gave it to him.
Is it on your desk?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
It's probably in Mike , like for something else.
He's got the nice officecollects the awards.
But yeah, look, so we're.
We were first to market withthose.
I think it was we brought thoseon market really kind of at the
peak of the trend to, you know,fruit forward vapes, right, and
the the price of those inputswas obviously very high, so the
(46:31):
price of those carts had to bemore elevated.
And now we've seen this.
And then we saw the trend, likeyou know, in the US it was
already a thing with refinedresin, right, like you know,
distillate, enhanced Premiumextracts.
I think that is the prevailingtrend right now.
It because you know you getthis potency problem right, like
if it's a pure live extract,it's, it can't meet those
(46:52):
potency expectations thateveryone looks at.
But now we're starting to seethe consumer trend come back,
right, you know, to these sortof like more premium live
extracts.
And so you know we have refinedresin type of products, but
with the, you know, with themotor breath, it's gonna be just
pure live resin, likeunadulterated Let the, let the
(47:12):
extract speak for itself.
So looking forward to that one,you know that's doing yeah, for
sure.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
That's awesome, man.
I know you guys are got acherry.
I was excited about your sourcherry vape too.
I think that's yeah that one's.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
That one's a delicious vape.
That's under the back 40 line,so you know that's a little bit
more fun.
You know that's gonna be.
Yeah, it's more in that sort offruit kind of vape Thing.
It's delicious.
You know, I really like thatone.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
I think a strength to you guys with the vapes, and
I've always said this is likeyour hardware is killer.
You always pick great hardware.
I think I've only ever dog one.
That, dave, I remember we haveone regular that I think.
How many carts have I sold solike out of how many?
What can one like?
Definitely less than than anyother brand I can think of
anyway.
So yeah, it was for that.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yeah, look like you know our vision is really to be
a global leader and qualitycannabis products right, so we
always focus on the quality ofour product.
Vapes is, I think, in vapehardware right.
We just won the kind award thisyear for best vape hardware
there you go speaking of we have.
You know we have an a plusrating with the OCS for our vape
(48:17):
hardware, which is like thekind of lowest returns in the
industry.
Our co-lab cart is the highestquality cart in the industry,
right like period like this islike all metal body glass.
It's specifically tuned to ouroil.
You know high, high performance.
Any extract I taste in thatcard always tastes better than
any other cart, and we do.
(48:38):
You know we test differenthardware all the time and I
think the you know the qualityof our hardware is a real
competitive Strength.
I think there's lots ofcompanies that are doing great
things in vape.
I continue to think we're oneof the very best.
We've had tons of first to mark.
We were the first to marketwith a one gram vape cart.
We were the first to marketwith like a fruit forward there.
We were the first to marketwith a premium live extract only
(49:01):
cart.
Now we're the first to marketwith like a palm held all in one
right.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
So those were killing it by the Resing gummies to.
I feel like that was first tomarket.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
With resin, we're the first to market with an infuse
pre-roll.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Yeah, turp sticks yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
We made the wrong bet on that one.
We thought we could do like abetter job than you know, and so
we really worked on the inputand I think part of that was we
started that product beforehealth Canada came out and said
it's okay, you can mix classesof cannabis as long as you deem
it an extract.
Right, because, remember, underthe rules said, like, you can't
mix Classes, so it either hasto be an extract or it's gonna
be dried flower.
(49:37):
So we actually messed aroundwith our input for that and
created like a more refinedinput product that we thought
smoked better, was moreenjoyable, but you know we
couldn't get it to the superhigh potencies that eventually
like ruled the day.
So, like you know, we switchedour formulation now to be able
to Hit those consumerexpectations in our infuse
(49:58):
pre-rolls and we have some somecool products coming out on that
front as well.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
I love that man.
Now, you guys are alwayslistening and paying attention
and I feel like it comes marketleaders right yeah.
Yeah, comes from the top you go.
You're always paying attentionand listening to what we love
weed.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
So, like you know, we're Looking for hey, what's,
what's a great new product?
What?
What do we like to consume?
Right, and I think that youknow that really comes through
in terms of, like, our productfocus, like we're increasingly
focused on vapes and driedflower and pre-rolls, and you
guys know, right, like I'mthat's the flower.
(50:33):
I'm a flower guy, I know it's,it's maybe a little bit old
school, so I think like I'vealways grown up like loving
flower.
But the convenience of apre-roll is really.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
People are getting farther away from flower and and
getting more into those kindsof products we talked about that
of those things that are justeasier, I guess, for lack,
convenience and it's the qualityof those products too.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Right, like when pre-rolls first came out
everyone's using, kind of likeit was almost a way to use your,
your sort of like leftover,your product.
Now, you know, I look at ourpre-rolls and we use nothing but
whole flower.
It's the exact flower goes inthe bag.
We don't adulterate it withanything like turps or distill
it.
Let the flower speak for itself.
(51:15):
And, yeah, it's great.
I mean the.
You know I Still buy wholeflower regularly when I want to
roll like a bigger joint.
But, like you know, we also gotsomething coming out for that.
It's probably the product I'mmost excited about Coming out.
You know, I firmly believe likethis is my personal view that
the best way to consume cannabisis in a straight-roll format,
(51:37):
yeah, cone format.
I think even with today's,especially with today's higher
resin weed, right Like, by thetime I get to the end of a cone,
you'll get some cloning issues.
You know it's hard to get thatlike real good draw and like
this is great weed and you kindof feel like man, I look like
you just got to be a better way.
So I think with the straightroll it offers you that.
But you know, point three, fivesometimes isn't, isn't enough
(52:02):
for the occasion.
So we have a bigger jointcoming out in that format.
It's probably the product I'vebeen most excited for myself.
Cool consumption, the bigstraight roll yeah and yeah to
be out in the.
It'll be out in the launchingin spring.
Be in stores.
Look forward to that.
Just in time for you know, someare fun in your own back 40
(52:22):
that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Thanks for dropping by today.
Let's call the sheesh hotlinequickly.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
Yeah, look, you guys introduced me to the sheesh.
Yeah, you like, I know they'rea big part of what you do here.
I think Amazing, I still buy it.
You know, you guys introducedme to it.
It's, it's one of my favoritebeverages, so you know hats off.
Hats off to them.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
They're doing a great job show it to Matt and Jackie.
Just hash it out.
You might end up on ourInstagram, isn't it?
Beep?
What happened to the beep?
Please hold while we connectyour call to Let me know what
the hell happened there.
(53:03):
All right?
Show some, oh see you next,when you you.
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