November 23, 2023 • 56 mins
We're fortunate to have Jackie Mcaskill, the co-founder of Sheesh Sodas, as our special guest. Jackie, with her profound experiences from Unilever to LCBO, is a powerhouse in the industry. We embark on a fascinating exploration of her journey, discussing everything from her time spearheading the Axe body spray brand to intriguing statistics about cannabis and wine consumers. Our conversation also delves into the shared passion we have for the ever-evolving cannabis industry.
Our discussion takes an exciting turn as we dive into the compelling intricacies of the cannabis industry. We shed light on its similarities and differences with the alcohol industry and the challenges that come with product curation. An important part of our conversation also involves the necessity of customer satisfaction and feedback in improving products. Jackie teases her upcoming book, which explores the connections between cannabis and wine, further highlighting the potential of cannabis beverages in the market.
Our conversation wouldn't be complete without discussing the trials and victories of entrepreneurship in the beverage industry. Drawing from our experiences in the corporate world, we highlight the dynamics of a successful partnership. We wrap up with a lively debate on the origin of seeds and plants, followed by an open invitation to our listeners to engage with us through our hotline. If you have an interest in the cannabis industry, entrepreneurship, and the integration of diverse industries, this episode promises to be a thought-provoking listen.
To stay in the loop on our latest episodes, follow us on Instagram (@higherorbit), and YouTube (@higherorbit), and don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Or send us an email: info@higherorbit.ca.
Thank you for your unwavering support. We're excited to bring you even more awe-inspiring content in the near future.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Minus 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 8 inches.
Start 4, 3, 2, 1.
Good morning, I'm Sean and I'mCharlie, and this is Hire Orbit,
like what I did there with thelittle pause.
No, I don't know.
(00:24):
I don't know, I was just tryingsomething new.
Today we got a morning episode.
I'm still getting my coffee inme.
We all just have hash makersand master growers on this show.
We have a very special guestwho's almost like a puppet
master of one of our favoritebrands and our very own sponsor
of the show.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
We've got Jackie McCaskill.
Nailed it, nailed it.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I take pride in saying names correctly.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I didn't want to butcher it, and I always butcher
it, so that's why I tried tolike lob it to you.
That's what I did there.
It was like a nice little.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
You set up the spike.
Yeah, you did.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
But yeah, introducing Jackie part of our great
sponsor team over at she's SodaCo-founder of she's Soda I don't
know if I missed that, but yeahand kind of the puppet master
behind that brand, which is youlove that term?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I do.
I have to say it, I just feellike it's a good one.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I would own that.
I think it's cool.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
But you don't like it .
So is Matt the puppet.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, he's the puppet .
He's the puppet, you know whatI guess.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
She's a behind the scenes ninja.
Behind the scenes, ninja, thereyou go.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, whatever you prefer, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I'm open to ninja.
I mean that's stealth and cool.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
That's cool, there you go I like it, the gonja
ninja.
The gonja ninja, exactly.
Why don't we get into I meanagain very illustrious career
from the looks of it?
Canadian Tire, I'm just seeingthat for the first time.
We did talk briefly about yourtime at Unilever and it's pretty
wild that you kind ofspearheaded an axe body spray
(01:52):
brand.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, I think anybody like our age owned a can axe at
some point in their life.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
It's like a cultural phenomenon almost Nice.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I was lucky to be on that team as part of that team.
It was an amazing experience.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
You see a brand explode like that.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, and one that I really couldn't relate to.
I was in innovation operationswith the brand team on it.
I remember they had an armpitas the symbol, like an actual
physical armpit.
Was the guy I was like I don'tget it?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, I got it and it flew, all right.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So here you go.
I even think, even to this day,emulated to and like that old
spice.
I felt like that came after youknow that campaign.
I was like I feel like I'veseen these before and it really
reminded me of Acid.
I just had to say that I thinkthat whatever emulation is the
best form of flattery, as theysay.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I definitely remember having a few cans of those, and
nowadays, though, you kind ofsmell like who the fuck?
Who sprayed that?
Yeah, who sprayed it in thefucking change room?
That's wrong with you.
But yeah, moving on, I meanwhat else?
You went on to have a wickedcareer, from my understanding,
at the LCBO I did yeah, one ofthe largest wine procurers in
(03:03):
the world.
I'd love to just even chat winewith you sometime.
Let's do it.
You probably have a fastknowledge, and I was mentioning
I do love wine as well and allthe similarities that it has to
weed.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, yeah, so many, so many 14% of consumers that
smoke cannabis and drink wine doit together.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Oh, I didn't know that one.
It's a great stat, it's a goodoverlap Okay.
Love that Very cool.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Nope, you go first.
No, I don't know, justcontinuing down this like
impressive resume, just to likeflex your ninja status.
Oh my God, wow, I often do liketo flatter people when they
come on the show.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
You're just telling everyone how old I am.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Maybe you're just a prodigy, you started young, I'm
lustrious.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And then moved on to Time at Hexel.
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah, I had a consulting company in between
where I worked on beverages.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Oh okay, there you go .
That's what we didn't knowabout A station coal brew.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
We have a new one coming out.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I'm on fire today.
I'm on fire.
On fire, fire.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Fire, yeah, so I did some of that.
And then, yeah, jumped over tocannabis and Hexo.
It's where I landed.
Hexo, hexo and you met a goodfriend of ours, I believe I met.
I'm going to tell you, I metthe most amazing people and when
I joined Hexo, as I was tellingyou before, my goal was to
actually learn the cannabisindustry.
(04:29):
And it was in COVID and I saidyou know, I'm going to set up
Zoom meetings with so manypeople that I know, from alcohol
to cannabis, and through thatI'm going to learn everything I
need to know about cannabis.
And I had four or five of thoseand I'm like this, this is not
going to work.
I need to go actually work inthe industry.
So, yeah, I landed at Hexo asthe director product for
(04:54):
pre-rolls, flower and theneventually edibles, and I met
Todd Nolt and he worked with meand he's a good friend of this
day.
I love him.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
He's a good friend of the shows.
Yeah, yeah, shout out to Todd,yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
I'm sure he's hoping to see us.
Yeah, I'm sure he's listening.
I'm sure he has yeah Episodetwo throwback so.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Todd I hope you're listening and you're dope and I
keep doing what you do.
He's the best.
He's the best.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I met the most incredible human beings that are
so passionate.
Like you think I know there'spassion in alcohol and wine and
all of those things, but like Ihave never seen passion, it was
like I have being in thecannabis industry and you can't
help but be, I don't knowMagnetize to it and engaged in
learning.
And now I'm passionate.
(05:40):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
You have great energy .
I love that, especially in likean industry that like is so
like jaded.
Sometimes I guess that's like,yes, she's been successful, so
that helps too.
But, like you know, like Ithink there's something to be
said there, right, charlie?
Like anyways, yeah, I just loveyour energy and your vibe and
what you bring to the table, andI really gotta go to meet you
and chat all things.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Me too.
Thanks for inviting me, guys.
I appreciate being here.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Super happy to have you yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
There's a new sheesh product coming out.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
We talked about that at all.
We talk a little bit about it.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I remember Matt was like, no, we can't talk, Not too
much.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
We can say there's a new product coming out.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Okay, cool.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
And it's coming out.
It was the second release forOCS, so I think it'll be in the
market early, early February.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Okay that's exciting.
Wait for 2024.
Remember, she's a ninja, has tooperate in the shadows, correct
, correct.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Yeah, and it's named after a really well-known strain
.
Okay, it's a profile, a citrusprofile that a lot of people
love, and we we brought the bestof the best into the
development where we get ourproducts made at University of
Guelph, nsf, and I can tell you,hands down, we will do a blind
(06:59):
taste test on the show.
Amazing and I guarantee you'regonna be like whoa, this is it.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Can't wait to try that.
Yeah, can't wait to try it.
Can't wait to try it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I still think you guys should go on the road and
do something like the Pepsichallenge, the Sheesh challenge.
I think it'd be a lot of fun.
I was telling Matt that, butwe'll make it happen someday.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I said the same word.
The same words, word for word,what you said A hundred percent,
that's what I said.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Maybe put a hairier jet in the background.
No, I'm just joking.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yes, Well, matt and I will get our backpacks on, go
into the stores Like all right.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Just compare it with the top soda and shit on them,
basically kind of yeah Well,that's exciting, so it's coming
in February.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Not shit on them, but True to your profile, we're
getting away from Kola.
I can assume something likethat.
Something like that we'reguessing who I am away from Kola
, though.
Anyways, Cool, we'll keep themguessing.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Yeah, it'll be good.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
It'll be good.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yeah, we have a great innovation pipeline planned, so
we're excited to see that cometo fruition.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
No, I really respect keeping your cards close and as
much as you want to talk aboutthings, it's important to just
play things correctly, right?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
We're dying to yell it from the mountaintops.
Hey, this is what we're doing,but we're just gonna wait a
little bit longer.
I think Matt wants to do a goodsocial media campaign to really
bring that out to light theright way.
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
That's more like chess.
You know, We'll be shouting itfrom the mountaintop too when
the time comes, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
The more showers, the better we appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Absolutely.
Just to run it back to, I guess, speaking on some of the work
that you've done and again thatexperience with launching brands
and having innovation pipelines, my understanding is you had
something to do with thelabeling over at AX for what
this product doesn't substitutefor your shower, so it's you
(08:47):
that caused all the smellylocker rooms it wasn't me, I
know when the product was outover time, we actually had
complaints or feedback fromconsumers saying boys, young men
are using this instead ofshowers.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
They're like I'm good , I just put some AX on right.
So there was a point where wehad to consider a disclaimer or
put a disclaimer that said thisis not to replace a shower.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Oh, like legit it was okay.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, we were doing it.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I thought it was like a marketing thing, like yeah
you don't need to shower.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
It wasn't, it was a legitimate issue okay.
Remember I said there's a brandthat can't relate to, it's that
one.
But no the brand team, theprimary brand team that worked
on it.
Like I was just fortunate to bepart of it from an operational
brand perspective.
But I'm telling you guys, itwas next level.
It's just really cool.
(09:40):
Every element and I rememberthe guy running it at the time
was totally in that demographic.
He was a very mature version ofwho should use AX and he just
nailed it.
So it was great.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I also have some fond memories.
It reminds me of a story justtrying to cover smoking weed
with AX body spray, and you'd belike smoke with your friends,
because it is that era for me.
Maybe you too, charlie, do youremember that Pretty much.
But I remember my mom basicallybeing our teacher's being like
dude.
You smell like weed and AX bodyspray.
You don't just smell like, youknow what I mean, but it is a
very potent odor.
So I thought it was a good play, that's a great innovative
(10:16):
product.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Oh my God, the spray that like that neutralizes weed
odor.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
maybe that's it.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
that's it, yeah that's not a bad one.
Yeah, that's a great idea.
A more pleasant one, right?
Yeah, anti-cush.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I like it.
I think lavender works well.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Yeah, yeah, anyways.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I always liked the idea of smelling like kush in a
perfume or a cologne, but Iguess I would just you just
smoke, You're good.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
You can buy candles.
I saw was it at Vika.
No, yeah, that's great.
Maybe somewhere in the SillowDistrict.
I remember seeing candles.
I thought that's cool.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
We have something like that.
It's actually pretty good.
I can kind of swear by it.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Oh Okay, maddie boy, surprise, surprise.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Oh, my other half is here.
Thank God, show and support andlove.
We'll bring them out on thenext segment.
Nice.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I guess just had everything.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Oh, a moment, he got a haircut, you look sharp, oh,
sharp dress.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Man Just walked in.
Sharp dress man Good morning.
Have a coffee, but we'll getyou in here.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, so is it safe to say, I guess I mean she's
just more or less blowing up.
Would you say that kind of justneck and neck in terms of, like
, the expansion of each of thosebrands, or is that just like on
another planet really?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
I mean there's been a lot of brands over.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
That you've worked on .
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yeah, I want to say over my 10 year career, but it's
a lot longer.
I'm old, I'm old, let's own it.
That have blown up, but I mean,sheesh is is tremendously
special because it, you know, itstill is a relatively new
industry.
I know to many of us are likeman, it's been a lug since 2018.
But the reality is that's new,you know, and when you don't
(11:56):
have baseline data and historyyear over year to gauge from and
you're developing product,that's tough.
So it is different thananything else, like when you
look at acts as a great example.
When you look at that, like youknow, leave her at the time.
I think they still do ownCalvin Klein fragrance, right.
So I don't know this for a fact, but there was a point where I
(12:18):
heard when I was there, that thefinalists for those fragrances
that didn't make the cut turnedinto acts Like that's good
quality right, yeah.
I mean.
But my point is they have ahistory of knowing, you know,
fragrance, information and thatconsumer we don't to a degree,
you know, we have a few years topick from and a lot of really
segregated choppy data.
(12:38):
So the fact that we've beenable to, I guess, cultivate
something, I create a productthat has hit so the market so
well, you know, as a testamentto what I would say, matt,
knowing the consumer and me,bringing product innovation and
collectively making it work,Fuck, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
I also think you guys recently won the Beverage of
the Year at the CanExpo.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I'm pretty sure I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I had to just bring a girl up, so I knew you won
something recently, but I dohave to say we gave you the
award first.
Hey, the Beverage of the Year.
Sorry, I was like.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Ever award.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Are we?
I didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
There you go.
We only have two.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
There you go, but you guys are our inaugural award.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I like we couldn't have been prouder.
Like Matt texted me a phone, Iwas like holy when we got your
award.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Pretty stoked.
Who gets to keep it?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
We're OK.
So we have a pipe dream,because right now our company is
Matt and I we work fromwherever we work.
So we have a pipe dream wherewe'll have a central location
for Sheesh and we will have itthere, but in the meantime Matt
is housing it for us.
Yeah, I think he has a besidehis bed, but I'm not saying that
.
Good night, charlie.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
That's looking hilarious.
I guess you speak to it being anew industry, of course, and
it's interesting because youoften hear lots of people from
like alcohol and Bev a lot ofcrossover in terms of careers.
What kind of similarities areyou seeing in terms of again
having been on the inside of theLCBO and now working with the
(14:14):
OCS?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
So you're talking from an industry perspective or
commodity.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Why don't we start as industry, and then we'll go
commodity?
Speaker 3 (14:23):
So industry?
I certainly see the OCSutilizing a lot of LCBO
infrastructure.
So the way they're doing theproduct calls, I'm guessing,
similar the way they purchaseproduct.
The thing I can't get my headaround is they don't try the
product In LCBO.
(14:45):
For example, when I was avintage as wine buyer, I mean
we'd put a call out just likeOCS, and say we'd say Spanish
Reds and we're looking for thisright at this price.
We could get 2,000 submissionsand through a process that would
be dwindled down to about 100.
And then we would taste all 100.
There'd be multiple people in ablind tasting.
(15:07):
And how do you identify what isa great product from a
spreadsheet and a pitch deck?
And it's a challenge for thosebuyers like kudos, because
they've done a relatively greatjob in some respects picking
without that.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
It's purely data driven, 100%.
That's all it is.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I was actually talking to the product all the
time Later.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
than yesterday we were at the OCS retailer summit.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Oh, I remember about that.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah, and it just drove me crazy listening to the
product manager and how theychoose, how they curate.
And it was just like but nobodytries anything and that's just
like a disconnect for me andyou're just confirming it now,
and something that you'venoticed from working in both
industries, and so thanks forconfirming it.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Oh, you're welcome.
The hard part is, with wine wehad to spit.
There was a spittoon, right,right, and so even hundreds of
dollars, bottles like bottlesthat are 5, 6, 100, we're still
using a spittoon and that'sobviously that's a harder thing
to do with cannabis.
So I just you know it'spolarizing on one hand you
should try it, or if someone tryit and give some feedback, on
(16:15):
the other, that person would besuper high.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Right yeah.
So, I think if they looked andeven just smelt it and touched
it, though, that would be a lotbetter.
And maybe that is this spittoonhalfway where you meet like
open a bag, especially in flour,and like feel it and smell it,
and I think, without even thatwould just be an improvement of
purely data, wouldn't you agree?
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah, 100%.
And like gummies, like look atthem smell them.
Right, I don't know if you canchew it and spit it out.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
But the cure is right , like they're not all globby
and weird and like at least dothat you could certainly
spittoon a beverage right.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, you can 100%.
Yeah, I mean it adds to thecomplexity of the call, for sure
, and probably lead times onsome of that, but yeah, so one
synergy is that the way they'reproduct calling and things.
But I mean the biggestdifference is that the OCS is
also a retail online shop rightand of course government runs
(17:10):
stores.
So differences and similaritiesexist?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, I'm curious too .
Do you know off the top of yourhead like, for instance, you
covered wine?
How many skews did they have?
Oh my God, 1,023.
I mean, I would rotate all thetime, right, that's a good
question, yeah it does.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Well, when I was there we had so there's two.
There was kind of at that point.
It's changed.
Now there were two winedivisions.
There's your general purchase,which are the products there all
the time, like think youryellow tail, barefoot, like your
standards, and then vintages.
And vintages had essentialswhich were similar, that they
were there all the time, butthen they had thousands and
(17:52):
thousands of products that comein a note when there's like 100
or 200 cases available andyou're just blowing it through
Right.
So really, really high skewcount.
I was fortunate that I was.
I worked in both of thosedivisions and it's just, you
really get a feel for buying isan art and science and the OCS
(18:15):
buyers are dealing with thatsame thing.
Like there's a gut instinct, acommercial instinct that you
just feel is right, and then thescience of the numbers and the
actual tasting.
That married together andthat's how you make your
decision and, like you and Iwere talking about before the
podcast, like we all buy dogs,all of us.
I'm not gonna name my dogs, butI have a list.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
That was some wines I bought that I shouldn't have,
but we all have.
That's the life learning rightTo get better.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
So yeah, that's true.
I guess you're right.
You do buy bottles of wineevery once in a while at the
LCBO too, just like you wouldbuy a a not so great bag of weed
from us, like you hate that, Iguess.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Only our exit plan is different.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yes, we talked about yours yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
That's actually a perfect lead up.
I can't wait to answer it.
We had a great question fromone of our listeners, trevor the
Can of Paddler.
We'll answer it when we getback, but he asked if we ever
buy dogs and what we do with it.
Yeah, that's a good one.
Great question.
Well, we'll hit you up.
We'll answer that.
You want a rip tip, trevor.
Thanks for the question andreminder that you can still win
(19:17):
a rip tip.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
We have a couple, so shoot us a question, kick it
around and follow at higherorbit and at CosmicCharlie'sshop
, and she will be right back.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Good morning.
Second coffees.
I think it's a little early forSheesh.
I thought about it but I'm like, is it ever too early?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Sean, it's never too early for Sheesh.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
We're here with Jackie McAskill, I'll do it.
Maybe I'll do it the next onethere you go.
There you go.
Just to touch back off.
We did have a great questionfrom Trevor.
I'm gonna read it as hementioned it.
We were talking about dogs withJackie and how it's just an
inevitable part of life.
Question was great it's haveany products been sampled by
Charlie or Sean or staff andimmediately put on clearance to
(20:10):
clear out, or what was theoldest product that shows up in
your order and you're now stuckwith to sell?
So definitely happens.
Absolutely, trevor.
I mean I can definitely listoff a bunch.
I kind of had to dig deep justto remind us of, kind of some of
those shit products we got.
I would have to say it's prettysad, because we were even
(20:33):
talking about it too.
We don't really get the chanceeither to sample stuff, so
you're kind of you learn how tobuy, who to trust?
Do you have a bit of a gutfeeling?
You really kind of spoke to itwell, jackie, and you bring in
stuff and sometimes it's justawful and it can be expensive
and it's also deteriorating.
So like you get it bad qualityand it just gets to be even
(20:56):
worse, which is one of the bigdifferences I would say between
alcohol and like we're aconsumer package.
Good, but it's also kind oflike produce in a sense, because
it does deteriorate or have ashelf life.
But I can at least remember,like off the top of my head
there was at least five, and Idon't know if we want to shred
them too bad, but I have a listof maybe like 15.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
And we can be pretty.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I have a list.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I have a list.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
You're checking it twice without everybody.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Actually, we should just shred them.
That's when I get the mostfired up.
You were speaking about how youworked at Hexo too.
How long ago were they on thelist.
That one's notorious theNorthern.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Berry, absolute trash Took us a long time to move it.
We got a.
It was old when it got here andthen it took a really long time
to move.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I remember me in one detail we hugged when he sold
the last bag and we got pizza.
Really fucking.
We did get some food, yes.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, I have a little side story about up.
I'll share out of school,please.
When I entered into cannabis atHexo I was learning about the
brands and just before I joinedthey positioned we had
positioned up as a premiumthreshold with a plus 20% THC
(22:11):
promise.
That meant every bag would haveto do that.
So I mean the good learningthat is takeaway like you've got
to be able to grow plus 20% tomake that work longterm.
So there's challenges, for sure.
But Northern Berry was thecrown gem, so the fact that
you're shitting on that one isheartbreaking.
(22:31):
But yeah, okay, I'll take it onthe chin.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
It's not your fault and again, I do tend to try to
be careful because I know it isa plant and it's hard and I see
growers who grow it and theyhave so much passion and love.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And then for me to just go.
I think you're back meddlingnow.
I think you're back.
Oh, I stand by it.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
It wasn't good.
But again, I will answer theother half of this question and
I also want to specifically saywhy and we do often well either,
smoke bags of it to help kindof dwindle the inventory.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
To help the sales.
Help the sales, exactly.
That's so good of you.
You are good.
Well, let's not try it.
Let's not try it so that theyknow what's up you can sell it.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
And then we often do reduce the price because we
don't want our customers to feellike they got dogged.
Smart yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And so at least they know they're buying something
that's really cheap, and theyknow it's usually.
You know it's cheap for areason.
I would say it's on clearance.
When I buy that, it doesn'tmeet our standard, right?
Yeah, even when you go to theLCBO and you buy that clearance
beer and you're like it looksweird, it's like the cranberry
stout or whatever, right, andit's like ugh, it sounds gross.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
And then there was a second part of the question and
it's tricky because it's alittle nuanced, because I think
that what we consider old isstrange in this industry.
I mean, there are standardsthat the OCS follows.
They can't send us somethinglike a pre-roller bag of flour
if it's nine months or older.
But it does happen from time totime where we get something
that was packaged like seven oreight months or like right on
(24:01):
the cusp and you're like oh,what the fuck?
But like that said, we've kindof learned that like four or
five months isn't really thatold.
You know what I mean.
But again, we'll open it, checkon it, make sure it hasn't
turned into dust and just makesure we do right by the customer
, because that's the mostimportant thing.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
You should have a section of your store called
Charlie's Dogs and mark themdown and make it a destination.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Charlie's Doggies yeah, we'll come in.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
No, look at it.
Charlie thinks it's a dog, butI'm gonna get a great deal.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, I have nothing else.
I've flirted with that idea fora while.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
On that note, there's every so often when you have a,
like you put a dog on a dealand you get that random person
that just that product speaks tothem.
They come in and they buy itall I don't know, like the high
buddy, like do you know what Imean?
Like I don't know.
I always thought that I've beenin this industry a long time
and I don't know.
Someone's garbage is someoneelse's gold sometimes.
It's funny, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
You nailed it Different strokes for different
folks, for sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, definitely creative ways to do it.
But yeah, I mean there's beensome fallen soldiers.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
I mean Sean, I've also just smacked it down,
smoked it down, trying to thinkif there's anything else.
That was terrible.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
What do you guys do for your business so impressive?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
It's hard work.
Yeah, it's tough.
It's been like.
It's definitely a journey.
It's like figuring out how,what to do with the dogs, what
to how to pick your products,who to trust.
Right For sure, there's a lotgoing on.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Well, I was just gonna ask you what you learned
from that, from those dogs.
What do you take away and go?
Okay, here's what I'm gonna donext time as a result, like what
you just said trust.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
That's a big one.
It is Reputation, right it is.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Certainly like you start to build up relationships
with people too.
So when you kind of run intotrouble, you can reasonably so
get a bit of help.
And what that looks like mightbe like hey, I have this weed,
it's not selling or it'sstraight up not good.
How can you help me?
Do you wanna do a pop-ups, andeasy one?
(26:00):
Come in and help us subsidizethe sale.
Do anything that like sparkssales.
So thankfully we haven't had todo that too much and we try to
just manage it our own way.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
That's a great exit.
A plan for it Likecollaboration, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
You don't wanna like shit on people too bad.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah, I find, as long as you're like polite about it
and we're pretty good at beingdiplomatic, that like people are
usually generally happy to hearthe feedback, if that makes
sense I don't know like mostpeople are and you get the
occasional outsider who's likeoutlier.
I can think that like wants toargue with me about it, and then
I have to be like no, you'rewrong, come buy your product
(26:37):
back.
Thank you, but anyways, that'svery rare, I would say.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I think, Matt, I might cry if you gave us
feedback like your product shit,I think we might cry.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I don't think it would be possible.
So yeah, we have no reason tosay that.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
What sets you apart is the visionary in the cannabis
.
Cannabis sector.
Jackie, I would say that, likewhat have you used in your, in
those other industries that youbrought over, you think there's
been the most valuable to you.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I'm gonna say there's a surprising amount of
synergies between wine andcannabis and specifically when
you think about what a canisterand connoisseur are looking for.
You know a connoisseur of wineis looking for a sense of place,
time people.
(27:29):
They're looking for provenance,like understanding where it
came from, the history, thetaste profile.
And when you pivot that over tocannabis, it's shockingly the
same.
You know it has a stigma behindit that makes you have to kind
of clear the air to see.
But you know, when you look atsheesh, when Matt and I, when we
(27:52):
first met through a mutualfriend, we were talking and we
were both in beverage andpassionate and both love
cannabis and we're looking to dosomething.
And Matt just brings such adepth of consumer understanding
and retail understanding of thismarket.
And you know I bring adifferent aspect right with my
history.
So you know he's like I thinkthere's a gap in the market for,
(28:15):
you know, a cola in this pricepoint and this kind of Thing.
And I said I, this is where Ibrought the wine.
I said I think Something withprominence like that, a strain
specific to me, that's a singlevarietal right and Using strains
.
Guys, I know this isn't apopular thing to say on the
podcast, probably, but some ofthese strain names, jesus Christ
(28:37):
, like you're never gonna see medo like white widow ever.
I don't care if you say it isthe best, I just like I'll be
smoking.
My friend will go what's that?
Oh, I'm smoking white widow.
Like it just not gonna workright.
So we're we're careful aboutthe strains we select.
They have to be the right tasteprofile, terpene profile, all
of those things but they alsohave to be something where you
(28:59):
know we're proud to Repeat.
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we brought together, webrought those elements and
Created it, created our baby,sheesh.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, and what a baby , it is.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah, we love it.
You know, it's just kind ofpopped in my head and I wonder
if you ever tried it.
There was a, just because itwas a little more deluxe, more
premium.
It was the regal grape sparkler.
Oh, that was good importedfruit juice.
It was really good.
I just think again in terms of,like, more refined palate, more
(29:35):
it almost had like a dry, moreof a cidery type of eye, but
like just being elevated, beingmore mouthfeely Wasn't trained
specific.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
There was two skews right.
I think I tried.
There's two.
I think I tried that at a tradeshow.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I was.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
I loved it.
I thought it tasted great ittasted, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
And then there was another one, and he wasn't
around very long, but it was alow dose.
Which one was that?
Sean the white one.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Oh White, one white, can you know talking about.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
It was kind of like a more.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Oh yeah, exactly, you Vava, you Vava that.
Yeah, the pear thing.
Yeah, it was more, that waslike after a sparkling wine.
Yeah, it was supposed to belike a sparkling grape.
Listen.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I tried that too.
I love that it was the reality,though, in in looking at the
numbers and I mean Matt's had tolike Corrective course action
me a few times on this I I tendto look at numbers in, you know,
alcohol and in Non-controlledsubstances and think that those
trends and those numbers shouldapply to cannabis beverages.
(30:43):
It is super clear to me theydon't, and my own analysis,
which is that's very specializedcategory management, deep dives
and it it doesn't like the waysugar is interpreted in this
industry versus outside, the waythe potency, like people aren't
buying coolers in alcoholbecause it has a high THC,
(31:05):
they're just not a high alcohol.
They're not like, oh, thisone's 20% and buying it, they're
buying five, they're buyinglower, in fact, right, so you
can't always, you know, assumethat those trends are gonna turn
out here, and so I don't thinkthe consumers ready for that
wine Knock off right now, yeah,or that wine integration.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
We need to mature out a little bit soon.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
I could see that in a couple years.
It's not now.
Trust me, do I have conceptsand ideas for that?
You can't even fathom.
I'm a whole brand ready thatwould be, really wait for it,
but but we're just, we're not.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
We're not there yet.
Yeah, no, it makes sense slowgrowth.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
You know that would be like if you could do like
more than 10 milligrams.
I thought that was funny thatwe got like we can buy more than
, like you know, three or fourdrinks now because of the volume
limit, mm-hmm, but we stillcan't buy like a six pack of
sheesh because that would be 60milligrams or whatever.
So I guess the big step forwardwould be that like uncap on the
10 milligrams, right, and thatwould really open up a lot of
things from ever just I thinktoo.
(32:08):
I would you know, and you couldhave a bigger bottle format with
more in it to share.
Sharing for me, yeah, I lovethat.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
To me it's.
It's still about education.
There's still that, aneducation that's targeted to the
right consumer, not just broadstrokes.
Right, like I was talking alittle bit about the education
I'm working on through gettingwine consumers to understand
cannabis, it's, it's.
It's absolutely astounding tome when, typically, I would have
(32:38):
a wine night At my house and Istill do.
I have.
It will never replace winecompletely in my life, but
there's nights, it's cancannabis drinks and specifically
, sheesh, and how I get peoplein the wine.
I'd like they look at the can,as I said, and they're like, oh,
hash, is that even legal hash?
But I'm like, oh, my god,there's so much work we need to
(33:00):
do, right, and then, beyond that, how I hook them and how I get
them to really engage in thisconversation, is, I say, our Our
?
Actually, our cherry juice isfrom cherry Lane in Vineland,
which is a wine growing region.
Oh, I know cherry Lane.
Yeah, we use real juice.
And then you know a singlestrain which is, you know, our
(33:21):
cherry mac is the same as asingle varietal.
Oh, okay, like you got to speakthat language to talk to that
consumer so they get it.
And that's the biggeropportunity once more people
understand than the product tomeet their needs can be created
Right, but until that, I thinkyou know it's a pause.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I would agree still lots of work to be done.
I love that comparison.
Can you share a little bitabout the project that you're
working on, or almost?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
almost completed.
Yeah, I finished the manuscript.
So when I was at Hexo and I waslearning, like absorbing
everything I could aboutcannabis, I mean actually I made
a commitment it would be sixmonths to my partner because we
don't have a life that'sconducive to me working
corporately full-time all thetime, and I ended up staying a
(34:09):
year because I loved it so much.
It was learning so much fromguys like Todd right, todd, and
the project that I'm working onactually stems from all the
information I was getting.
I was comparing and contrastingto wine.
So I wrote a book and I have aCanadian publisher in Genium
(34:29):
that's coming out next springand it's called chill the wine
lovers guide to understandingcannabis.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Yeah, and I talk about them as cousins, like
Venus Venifera is the wine graperight and cannabis and a little
bit just for the historychapter.
And I talk about, you know,ones recovering from a bad stint
in jail and Working on areputation.
You know I have advertisementsof the Pope promoting a wine in
the 1800s.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Wow right.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
I said like look at the and then the difference and
it's crazy.
So my goal in that is to reallyempower and educate wine
consumers.
It's not to, you know, convincethem cannabis is better and you
should try cannabis.
But please understand thebasics, see the possible
advantages to your life and justbe knowledgeable and informed,
(35:19):
because even if you choose notto do it, I guarantee that it
will alter your stigma towardspeople that do right and it
could benefit your life in agreat way.
So that's the premise.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I love it.
I can't wait to pick up a copreally cool perspective.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I can't great to grab a copy, yeah.
I can't see it be awesome.
I'm really excited about thatawesome.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
I'm trying to get it out from Mother's Day.
It's a great Mother's Day gift.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
I think so that one mother in your life for sure.
Yeah, I mean, we still see itall all the time, just having
that firsthand contact withpeople in the store or what have
you it's.
It's still pretty strong kindof a stigma and it's yeah, I can
think of a better comparisonreally do you get the side eye?
Speaker 3 (35:58):
I get, because when my wine friends and I'm holding
the sheesh, I get a side eye.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Oh yeah, I was mentioning yeah, definitely like
people look oh, terpenes, andthis and the wall weeds the same
.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I'm like you know where you hook them.
There's Many of the wines havethe same terpenes.
Oh.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
I mean, is in some in Yambolanc and it's in lemon
haze like there's.
There's some great synergies.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, I think so.
I think it's more so too.
Sometimes people with wine geta little snooty and just want to
sound like Never.
I mean, it happens in thisindustry too, with people's weed
, so we got to be careful aboutthat.
But I don't want that sameLevel of I, like you, can't
smoke Hexo northern berry.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Have you ever talked to a legacy grower?
Long-term legacy grower.
Yeah, yeah, we'll tell youwhat's what in a heartbeat.
In their own way, it's notsnooty, but they'll, they'll
tell you what's what.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
yeah, yeah, it's okay to have opinions.
Yeah, it's interesting to it,picked up on something you said
there.
So your partner, your lifeisn't conducive to working the
corporate life anymore.
How have you found balancingEntrepreneurship, because I feel
like that's probably likeequally as yeah, all the time,
(37:18):
yeah, yeah, it's you know.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
My crew has been interesting, right.
Big corporations can a tireLCBO, unilever, and then on the
flip side consulting An equitypartner and a couple non alcohol
cannabis businesses, and soI've been an entrepreneur in
that respect.
And then this with Matt hasbeen Amazing.
(37:43):
So you know it is a transition,but I think the roles I've had
at those corporations alwaysallowed me to bring an
entrepreneurial spirit to them.
Category management is, like Isaid, that art, component of the
art and science is my passion,right?
So yeah, I think adjusting toEntrepreneurship can be really
(38:04):
difficult but I thrive, I loveit.
I miss people like I thinksometimes I come at just to call
Matt and he's like what's up?
And I'm like as your day, likeI, you know I miss that, that
group infrastructure, but yeah,aside from that, it's awesome
and it works for my life amazing.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Nailed it.
Yeah, I guess I Guess I shouldhave a she, I think so.
Just a reminder.
You got to do the upside downand like tip it back up, right
Is that the move Can?
Speaker 3 (38:43):
yeah, there's a little move right, there's a
real juice you want to make sureit's evenly distributed.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, oh, one second.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
I was gonna ask you to share that camp, but not now.
I.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Didn't think about it .
We'll open another one.
We'll be right back with JackieMcAskill.
I always kill everybody's name,sorry, jackie from.
She's so nice.
I Welcome back everybody backto the shop, jackie, she so does
(39:24):
.
I got a great question for you.
How did you meet Matt?
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Our mutual friend Mitch Stern from station Colbert
back in the day.
He's one of my favorite humansand one of Matt's, and he for a
while.
He's like.
You got to meet this guy, matt.
You guys have so much in commonand I guess the other side he
was doing the same thing, so wehad an epic meeting and,
honestly, so you wouldn't be abetter partnership.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Yeah, you were coffee .
You're in the coffee biz beforenot really.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Yeah, I did some consulting and I have a small
ownership stick and I had thatin a station.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
So that's how yeah, love that stuff.
Just on that topic, it justpopped into my head Is it harder
to make like an emulsifiedstill beverage, because I feel
like Coffee is a home run, butthere was a fizzy coffee and it
was can a Joe, I remember.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
I say they are out of the bus.
It was not awful.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
It was really gross.
I don't ever tried that, but itwas not good.
Yeah, I mean worse when I'vetried to market.
I'm gonna just say it, it wasthe worst drink I've ever tried.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
I actually sick.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Yeah.
Yeah it makes me think of thosemudslides.
The alcohol wins.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Nairly they had one that was like a latte and one
that was like an espresso thing,and they were both just gross.
And then the latte one was likeit had oat beverage and it was
still at pervescent.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Honestly, you got to stop talking.
I'm gonna lose the, the bananabread or whatever that was so
funny.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Sorry so bad.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
All right, I'm sorry, is it harder to make like a,
not like a, still beveragebecause you don't see that many
to be honest.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Yeah, I mean Carbonation hides imperfections,
right.
So it's that.
And sometimes, depending whatyou're mix on, the
emulsification really has to bestabilized, otherwise you get
separation.
I mean there's some things.
Everything has their ownchallenges, but I'd say, in my
opinion, it would be a littleharder.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah interesting, and there's also a rule about
Caffeine and the product.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Well, yeah, alcohol and cannabis have a 30 milligram
max.
Okay, caffeine and yeah did shehave caffeine, not currently.
No, okay.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah, I was just curious.
It's something popped in myhead.
I was like I don't know.
Yeah, there's a cola cola tends.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, sometimes does minor amounts for it.
Yeah, doesn't need it stillgreat, oh amazing, how'd you
even come up with that Nate?
Speaker 3 (41:48):
actually, I can't take any credit for that.
In fact, we were, oh man.
So I reached out to a couplepeople I knew that owned small
agencies and things.
I said, how much would it be todo a brand packing?
Give us some.
And I was getting like 70,000,a friendship deal.
I'm like what?
And I said, matt, we're gonnahave to figure this out right.
And Little did I know that notonly is Matt, you know,
(42:12):
brilliant at understanding thecannabis consumer, he's also a
creative genius.
It is like he came up with somenames and when he said she, I
like Kai Basta, right away, I'mlike no, stupid, like that's the
kid going.
She, right, like I'm like noway, I'm not doing that right.
And and then he circled back.
He goes, listen, I really needyou to reprocess that.
(42:34):
And I'm like okay.
And then I did.
And we just we roll.
Like the amount of times Mattand I take separate Positions on
so many things and I think wedo that because we're a group of
two and we have to really turnall the rocks and Stones to make
sure we've looked at it fromevery angle and we always seem
(42:56):
to come out with a decision weboth agree with.
That were like it's right, andDefinitely he nailed this.
This was his ideation on thename and I love it now.
So very few people can get meto change my mind.
He's really good at it.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
That's a good, good working relationship.
It's important to kind of havethose two different views and
then you battle through.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
It seems like you and I think we take Oppositional
perspective sometimes just to dothat, to make sure we really
run through everything.
Team of two you gotta do.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Yeah, I'm glad you came around, because I can't
imagine being anything else.
So there you go.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Hmm, how'd you land on cherry cola, kind of being
the first way?
Speaker 3 (43:38):
well, we looked at what was strong in the market,
what we thought trending flavorswere.
We had a couple actually in thehopper out of the beginning and
Cherry just edged it out.
We just felt like the brand wasgonna be nostalgic, 80s vibe,
that whole you know, soda jerkkind of thing, and and the
(44:00):
cherry cola fit the bill andwhen we tried the formulation
and everything it was ano-brainer.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
It's a home run.
How do you Ensure consistencyand quality and like the input
of the rosin, like what is like?
What are, like the checkboxesyou guys look for?
I guess?
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Well, we source the original cannabis from really
reputable growers great startslike it completely does.
I don't know if I told you, butI mean he even went to the, the
facility where they grow someof our cannabis, to be part of
that and has some video and he'sdone a great job.
So really filtering to makesure that we are getting the
(44:38):
absolute best growers, theabsolute best cannabis input,
and then working with industryleaders to transition that into
the rosin.
Wow and it, guys, thetruthfully comes down to
partnerships.
Yeah partnerships with ourco-packer, our rosin producer,
our everything top-notch andthat it's important.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, I feel like it's so important.
When you're going through those, those motions and trying to
figure out who you want to teamup with, there's always like
options out there and justwhat's the right fit for you and
what you're trying to do inyour brand.
Right so 100%.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, I guess quickly to spin off that, it something
that came to mind.
I know we're trying to getsheesh out and to other markets,
of course a little differenthow they operate, and I could be
mixing up my you know brainhere a little bit.
But I think, like for instancein BC, does it have to be
produced there?
Speaker 3 (45:30):
No, it doesn't okay, but it's seeming like to get a
listing there.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
You might have to right, so the station BC might
be a little different.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
Well, our next beverage that you know the
Voldemort, we're not going tosay his name.
Yeah, that cannabis.
The bet is being sourced fromBC.
Okay, awesome, it is BC grown.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
You make it undeniable for them.
Yeah, yeah and we're again.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
We're looking for the best, like sheesh is based on
three founding principles, andthose principles everything from
how Matt and I interact withone another, the type of people
we are, the partners that wehave, like you guys all have to
check those boxes and and thoseboxes are Quality at every
(46:20):
single touch point, everything,the people we work with, the
ingredients we use, theco-manufacturer, everything
right, relevant Innovation.
So not innovation just becausewe're gonna do another flavor of
the same shit, right?
Or we're gonna do, you know notthat.
It has to be relevant to theconsumer and really mean a need
(46:44):
for real right.
So we've got quality, we've gotinnovation and and the biggest
one in my mind is transparency,and that is authenticity.
So we can tell you where theplant was grown, we can tell you
where our juice was sourced.
You know everything we're doingis based on that right quality,
(47:05):
transparency and relevantinnovation, and we couldn't have
a better partnership.
When we think of that isexactly what you're doing here.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Thanks so much for saying that, jackie.
Yeah, and the devil's in thedetails.
So I couldn't agree with youmore.
And you know, when you say youhave a big Idea or a plan, you
want to bring it to fruition.
It's like you really got tomake sure you have everything
figured out, and you guysdefinitely, definitely do so,
totally thank you With respectto, I would say, most cannabis
products.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
As far as I know, it seems like a lot of people tend
to forget to give good feedback.
Do you find you're getting lotsof good feedback or have you
gotten any bad feedback either,like how do you incorporate that
?
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Yeah, I, I got to be honest it.
It is absolutely crazy, I'mgonna say, and this is no
exaggeration, I think I haveonly ever heard One slightly
negative piece and these, and Idon't tell, like I'm not the
face of the brand, right, so alot of people that I'm
introducing it to, even friendsof mine, don't even really know
(48:10):
what I'm doing or the brand.
So I'm saying try this rightand and I mean I Was that, oh,
it's carbonation.
It's like a slight carbon, theysaid they said could you do a
higher carbonation?
Unfortunately Our manufacturingfacility cannot.
We you know.
(48:31):
But that's the one piece offeedback we've received.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
That's funny, I like.
I like that it's not ascarbonated, because I find that
I, I find you, can taste thecherry juice more and I can
taste the cannabis a little morebecause it's not as that
Provescent to.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
but that's my take well, a lot of people think low
carbonated product is also moresessionable.
I mean, you can drink moreconsecutively without that
Correct yeah.
Yeah.
So you know, maybe, like likewe said earlier, different
strokes for different folks,yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
I tend to like a like a pretty fizzy drink, but I
think it it lends well just tothe beverage itself being like a
more natural, like it doesn'treally have like the sickly
sweet can of your averageCoca-Cola, vibe or Pepsi.
I would say for me is a littlemore sickly sweet, you know.
I mean like it kind of justtastes.
Yeah, I don't know, it's alittle more natural.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
You got to think about it.
Right Like there's, you knowthere's.
We don't list it, but in theother flavors there's cinnamon
in there, there's ginger beer inthere, there's.
You know what I mean?
It's we didn't just payattention to the.
Again, one of those pegs isquality.
It's not just about the qualityrosin, it's about the rest of
the drink also delivering,because how much of that can is
(49:41):
the rest of the drink?
Speaker 2 (49:43):
Yeah, yeah 94% yeah, so you got to pay attention.
Yeah, right, yeah, those littledetails absolutely Um 31 awards
.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
We said the awards.
Yeah, you guys, we're excited,I guess, to get you.
Maybe, I guess, no, I guesswhat?
Next year's awards?
When did one of the awardsclose?
They close on April, so we'llget.
Definitely, I guess we'll beaccepting your next release as a
submission.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
I don't know where I was going with that Excellent.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Funny thought I had and I couldn't articulate it
properly.
Whatever, I'll own it.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
You know, I love that .
Yeah, you know but we'll besubmitting.
Well, yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
She's so did, but anyways yeah we did talk about.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
You know, the next big thing, kind of being he, who
, they, who shall not be named.
Do you think in the brand, andagain, maybe, as maturity
happens, would you ever expandcategories?
We're gonna stick to beverages.
Any big plans in that regardthat you could sure?
Speaker 3 (50:46):
um, I you know, I think a mistake a lot of
companies do is they innovateoutside of their wheelhouse too
quickly.
So, although Matt and I areinnovation product expert, like
that's what we do and Do we havea plan?
Yes, at some point, right, butI can tell you we want to make
(51:09):
sure we get the beverageCategory right and our portfolio
right before looking andputting our eyes somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
No need to rush in anything.
Yeah, that makes sense.
I totally agree.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Yeah, yeah, we do see that happen, I think, in the
market, and it's kind ofconfusing and usually not very
good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
Put your aces in your places.
Our ace is beverage right now.
Maybe we get enough learning.
A lot of expertise, brandequity that makes sense to Just
step out into it, you know thisis in your places.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
I've never heard that before.
I really like it.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
Definitely one, jackie's on card player yeah, I
do like it.
Yeah, I'm gonna use that youcan ever son.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
I am Housekeeping Awards, oh, or rip tips, oh, rip
tips, yeah, we still needquestions.
If you got a question forJackie or me or Charlie, you
know, send it in to Sean athigher orbit.
Or Charlie at higher orbit, dotcom to the CA, yeah, or she's,
(52:16):
you know, send a question in.
Why don't we do?
Why don't we call the hotline?
What?
What is the hotline number?
Again, yeah, for people thatdon't know.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
It's 1877, no no 1833 potline okay 1833 potline.
Give him a ring.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
There's something you don't know about it we actually
have.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Other end of that one .
Speaker 3 (52:47):
Zero and tell us about it.
Matter of fact, tell uswhatever, just hash it out.
You might end up on ourInstagram.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
Oh, it does that every time.
I thought, it was a good one.
How many times we called that?
And we still fuck it up on.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Every time I forget about the pause.
Speaker 3 (53:18):
I don't know why, but that's okay guys, it's your
opportunity to ask those deepquestions, because there are
brilliant people that are gonnaanswer that yeah, yeah, I'm not
gonna name them like is it theseed or plant that came first,
right is it?
Speaker 1 (53:36):
See Plant.
Had to be the plant to me hadto be the plan to make the seed
right.
I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
That's, yeah, that's still fucks me up I.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
Can see you're in deep thought about it.
So that's, these are the kindof questions you should ask the
potline.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Oh, that's good.
We should ask morethought-provoking questions on
the podcast.
Really, what is the meaning oflife?
Speaker 3 (54:00):
No, here's one I said to my daughter.
She's like I said.
I always say life isn't fairand she goes well, life isn't
fair for everyone.
Doesn't that mean it's fair?
And I'm like silence.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
Holy shit yeah 14 damn man.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
I like that because I flipped my mind on that.
I think life is perfectly fairoh.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Yeah, I look forward to the day my son says something
like that to me.
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (54:26):
Yeah, don't look forward to it.
You have this silent ignorance.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
That was a great rebuttal by your daughter, I
guess I feel like ah.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
Totally just seems like so far from now, but I know
it'll come so quick.
You know you just have one kid.
Speaker 3 (54:42):
I do one amazing kid.
That's a wonderful wife who'sin the wine industry.
Fantastic yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
Let's go to always like to talk a little bit.
I hit you up with the personallife, why not?
You always live in Toronto, oh,my goodness no it is not not
before.
Speaker 3 (54:56):
I always live there.
I grew up in a small townactually called Hanover.
Okay which is about three hourstwo and a half hours from here,
and then I started my careerand lived in Toronto for about
22 years.
Okay beaches area and then,yeah, now I'm in Stony Creek
which sometimes I call stonerCreek, just Tony On the water,
(55:19):
and I just love it it's nice outthere.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
I like Stony Creek, yeah, like it's kind of caught
on water down too.
It's all kind of a nice area.
Speaker 3 (55:25):
I love it.
Yeah, I love being in betweenaccessible to Toronto easy-peasy
, and to, you know, the wineregion and nature, wine region
Totally, and stoner Creek, whynot?
Speaker 1 (55:36):
It makes sense to me.
There are quite a fewdispensaries there, I believe.
There are yeah, anything elsewith she soda.
That's it.
Follow a cheese, follow acheese.
What is it at she?
Speaker 3 (55:48):
She so does she so does.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
That's it as simple as it is.
Speaker 2 (55:51):
Yeah, she so does.
Shoot them a question, calltheir hotline, give us a like,
follow or share it with thefront they come by she soda at
College of Charlie's at H1Queens Street West.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
Of course, don't forget.
Speaker 3 (56:03):
Thanks for having me, guys, thanks oh.
Minus 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 8 inches.
Start 4, 3, 2, 1.
Good morning, I'm Sean and I'mCharlie, and this is Hire Orbit,
like what I did there with thelittle pause.
No, I don't know.
(00:24):
I don't know, I was just tryingsomething new.
Today we got a morning episode.
I'm still getting my coffee inme.
We all just have hash makersand master growers on this show.
We have a very special guestwho's almost like a puppet
master of one of our favoritebrands and our very own sponsor
of the show.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
We've got Jackie McCaskill.
Nailed it, nailed it.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I take pride in saying names correctly.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I didn't want to butcher it, and I always butcher
it, so that's why I tried tolike lob it to you.
That's what I did there.
It was like a nice little.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
You set up the spike.
Yeah, you did.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
But yeah, introducing Jackie part of our great
sponsor team over at she's SodaCo-founder of she's Soda I don't
know if I missed that, but yeahand kind of the puppet master
behind that brand, which is youlove that term?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I do.
I have to say it, I just feellike it's a good one.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I would own that.
I think it's cool.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
But you don't like it .
So is Matt the puppet.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, he's the puppet .
He's the puppet, you know whatI guess.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
She's a behind the scenes ninja.
Behind the scenes, ninja, thereyou go.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, whatever you prefer, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I'm open to ninja.
I mean that's stealth and cool.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
That's cool, there you go I like it, the gonja
ninja.
The gonja ninja, exactly.
Why don't we get into I meanagain very illustrious career
from the looks of it?
Canadian Tire, I'm just seeingthat for the first time.
We did talk briefly about yourtime at Unilever and it's pretty
wild that you kind ofspearheaded an axe body spray
(01:52):
brand.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, I think anybody like our age owned a can axe at
some point in their life.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
It's like a cultural phenomenon almost Nice.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I was lucky to be on that team as part of that team.
It was an amazing experience.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
You see a brand explode like that.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, and one that I really couldn't relate to.
I was in innovation operationswith the brand team on it.
I remember they had an armpitas the symbol, like an actual
physical armpit.
Was the guy I was like I don'tget it?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, I got it and it flew, all right.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So here you go.
I even think, even to this day,emulated to and like that old
spice.
I felt like that came after youknow that campaign.
I was like I feel like I'veseen these before and it really
reminded me of Acid.
I just had to say that I thinkthat whatever emulation is the
best form of flattery, as theysay.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I definitely remember having a few cans of those, and
nowadays, though, you kind ofsmell like who the fuck?
Who sprayed that?
Yeah, who sprayed it in thefucking change room?
That's wrong with you.
But yeah, moving on, I meanwhat else?
You went on to have a wickedcareer, from my understanding,
at the LCBO I did yeah, one ofthe largest wine procurers in
(03:03):
the world.
I'd love to just even chat winewith you sometime.
Let's do it.
You probably have a fastknowledge, and I was mentioning
I do love wine as well and allthe similarities that it has to
weed.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, yeah, so many, so many 14% of consumers that
smoke cannabis and drink wine doit together.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Oh, I didn't know that one.
It's a great stat, it's a goodoverlap Okay.
Love that Very cool.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Nope, you go first.
No, I don't know, justcontinuing down this like
impressive resume, just to likeflex your ninja status.
Oh my God, wow, I often do liketo flatter people when they
come on the show.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
You're just telling everyone how old I am.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Maybe you're just a prodigy, you started young, I'm
lustrious.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And then moved on to Time at Hexel.
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah, I had a consulting company in between
where I worked on beverages.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Oh okay, there you go .
That's what we didn't knowabout A station coal brew.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
We have a new one coming out.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I'm on fire today.
I'm on fire.
On fire, fire.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Fire, yeah, so I did some of that.
And then, yeah, jumped over tocannabis and Hexo.
It's where I landed.
Hexo, hexo and you met a goodfriend of ours, I believe I met.
I'm going to tell you, I metthe most amazing people and when
I joined Hexo, as I was tellingyou before, my goal was to
actually learn the cannabisindustry.
(04:29):
And it was in COVID and I saidyou know, I'm going to set up
Zoom meetings with so manypeople that I know, from alcohol
to cannabis, and through thatI'm going to learn everything I
need to know about cannabis.
And I had four or five of thoseand I'm like this, this is not
going to work.
I need to go actually work inthe industry.
So, yeah, I landed at Hexo asthe director product for
(04:54):
pre-rolls, flower and theneventually edibles, and I met
Todd Nolt and he worked with meand he's a good friend of this
day.
I love him.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
He's a good friend of the shows.
Yeah, yeah, shout out to Todd,yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
I'm sure he's hoping to see us.
Yeah, I'm sure he's listening.
I'm sure he has yeah Episodetwo throwback so.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Todd I hope you're listening and you're dope and I
keep doing what you do.
He's the best.
He's the best.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I met the most incredible human beings that are
so passionate.
Like you think I know there'spassion in alcohol and wine and
all of those things, but like Ihave never seen passion, it was
like I have being in thecannabis industry and you can't
help but be, I don't knowMagnetize to it and engaged in
learning.
And now I'm passionate.
(05:40):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
You have great energy .
I love that, especially in likean industry that like is so
like jaded.
Sometimes I guess that's like,yes, she's been successful, so
that helps too.
But, like you know, like Ithink there's something to be
said there, right, charlie?
Like anyways, yeah, I just loveyour energy and your vibe and
what you bring to the table, andI really gotta go to meet you
and chat all things.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Me too.
Thanks for inviting me, guys.
I appreciate being here.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Super happy to have you yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
There's a new sheesh product coming out.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
We talked about that at all.
We talk a little bit about it.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I remember Matt was like, no, we can't talk, Not too
much.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
We can say there's a new product coming out.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Okay, cool.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
And it's coming out.
It was the second release forOCS, so I think it'll be in the
market early, early February.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Okay that's exciting.
Wait for 2024.
Remember, she's a ninja, has tooperate in the shadows, correct
, correct.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Yeah, and it's named after a really well-known strain
.
Okay, it's a profile, a citrusprofile that a lot of people
love, and we we brought the bestof the best into the
development where we get ourproducts made at University of
Guelph, nsf, and I can tell you,hands down, we will do a blind
(06:59):
taste test on the show.
Amazing and I guarantee you'regonna be like whoa, this is it.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Can't wait to try that.
Yeah, can't wait to try it.
Can't wait to try it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I still think you guys should go on the road and
do something like the Pepsichallenge, the Sheesh challenge.
I think it'd be a lot of fun.
I was telling Matt that, butwe'll make it happen someday.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I said the same word.
The same words, word for word,what you said A hundred percent,
that's what I said.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Maybe put a hairier jet in the background.
No, I'm just joking.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yes, Well, matt and I will get our backpacks on, go
into the stores Like all right.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Just compare it with the top soda and shit on them,
basically kind of yeah Well,that's exciting, so it's coming
in February.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Not shit on them, but True to your profile, we're
getting away from Kola.
I can assume something likethat.
Something like that we'reguessing who I am away from Kola
, though.
Anyways, Cool, we'll keep themguessing.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Yeah, it'll be good.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
It'll be good.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yeah, we have a great innovation pipeline planned, so
we're excited to see that cometo fruition.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
No, I really respect keeping your cards close and as
much as you want to talk aboutthings, it's important to just
play things correctly, right?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
We're dying to yell it from the mountaintops.
Hey, this is what we're doing,but we're just gonna wait a
little bit longer.
I think Matt wants to do a goodsocial media campaign to really
bring that out to light theright way.
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
That's more like chess.
You know, We'll be shouting itfrom the mountaintop too when
the time comes, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
The more showers, the better we appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Absolutely.
Just to run it back to, I guess, speaking on some of the work
that you've done and again thatexperience with launching brands
and having innovation pipelines, my understanding is you had
something to do with thelabeling over at AX for what
this product doesn't substitutefor your shower, so it's you
(08:47):
that caused all the smellylocker rooms it wasn't me, I
know when the product was outover time, we actually had
complaints or feedback fromconsumers saying boys, young men
are using this instead ofshowers.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
They're like I'm good , I just put some AX on right.
So there was a point where wehad to consider a disclaimer or
put a disclaimer that said thisis not to replace a shower.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Oh, like legit it was okay.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, we were doing it.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I thought it was like a marketing thing, like yeah
you don't need to shower.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
It wasn't, it was a legitimate issue okay.
Remember I said there's a brandthat can't relate to, it's that
one.
But no the brand team, theprimary brand team that worked
on it.
Like I was just fortunate to bepart of it from an operational
brand perspective.
But I'm telling you guys, itwas next level.
It's just really cool.
(09:40):
Every element and I rememberthe guy running it at the time
was totally in that demographic.
He was a very mature version ofwho should use AX and he just
nailed it.
So it was great.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I also have some fond memories.
It reminds me of a story justtrying to cover smoking weed
with AX body spray, and you'd belike smoke with your friends,
because it is that era for me.
Maybe you too, charlie, do youremember that Pretty much.
But I remember my mom basicallybeing our teacher's being like
dude.
You smell like weed and AX bodyspray.
You don't just smell like, youknow what I mean, but it is a
very potent odor.
So I thought it was a good play, that's a great innovative
(10:16):
product.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Oh my God, the spray that like that neutralizes weed
odor.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
maybe that's it.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
that's it, yeah that's not a bad one.
Yeah, that's a great idea.
A more pleasant one, right?
Yeah, anti-cush.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I like it.
I think lavender works well.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Yeah, yeah, anyways.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I always liked the idea of smelling like kush in a
perfume or a cologne, but Iguess I would just you just
smoke, You're good.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
You can buy candles.
I saw was it at Vika.
No, yeah, that's great.
Maybe somewhere in the SillowDistrict.
I remember seeing candles.
I thought that's cool.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
We have something like that.
It's actually pretty good.
I can kind of swear by it.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Oh Okay, maddie boy, surprise, surprise.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Oh, my other half is here.
Thank God, show and support andlove.
We'll bring them out on thenext segment.
Nice.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I guess just had everything.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Oh, a moment, he got a haircut, you look sharp, oh,
sharp dress.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Man Just walked in.
Sharp dress man Good morning.
Have a coffee, but we'll getyou in here.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, so is it safe to say, I guess I mean she's
just more or less blowing up.
Would you say that kind of justneck and neck in terms of, like
, the expansion of each of thosebrands, or is that just like on
another planet really?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
I mean there's been a lot of brands over.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
That you've worked on .
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yeah, I want to say over my 10 year career, but it's
a lot longer.
I'm old, I'm old, let's own it.
That have blown up, but I mean,sheesh is is tremendously
special because it, you know, itstill is a relatively new
industry.
I know to many of us are likeman, it's been a lug since 2018.
But the reality is that's new,you know, and when you don't
(11:56):
have baseline data and historyyear over year to gauge from and
you're developing product,that's tough.
So it is different thananything else, like when you
look at acts as a great example.
When you look at that, like youknow, leave her at the time.
I think they still do ownCalvin Klein fragrance, right.
So I don't know this for a fact, but there was a point where I
(12:18):
heard when I was there, that thefinalists for those fragrances
that didn't make the cut turnedinto acts Like that's good
quality right, yeah.
I mean.
But my point is they have ahistory of knowing, you know,
fragrance, information and thatconsumer we don't to a degree,
you know, we have a few years topick from and a lot of really
segregated choppy data.
(12:38):
So the fact that we've beenable to, I guess, cultivate
something, I create a productthat has hit so the market so
well, you know, as a testamentto what I would say, matt,
knowing the consumer and me,bringing product innovation and
collectively making it work,Fuck, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
I also think you guys recently won the Beverage of
the Year at the CanExpo.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I'm pretty sure I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I had to just bring a girl up, so I knew you won
something recently, but I dohave to say we gave you the
award first.
Hey, the Beverage of the Year.
Sorry, I was like.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Ever award.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Are we?
I didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
There you go.
We only have two.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
There you go, but you guys are our inaugural award.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I like we couldn't have been prouder.
Like Matt texted me a phone, Iwas like holy when we got your
award.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Pretty stoked.
Who gets to keep it?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
We're OK.
So we have a pipe dream,because right now our company is
Matt and I we work fromwherever we work.
So we have a pipe dream wherewe'll have a central location
for Sheesh and we will have itthere, but in the meantime Matt
is housing it for us.
Yeah, I think he has a besidehis bed, but I'm not saying that
.
Good night, charlie.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
That's looking hilarious.
I guess you speak to it being anew industry, of course, and
it's interesting because youoften hear lots of people from
like alcohol and Bev a lot ofcrossover in terms of careers.
What kind of similarities areyou seeing in terms of again
having been on the inside of theLCBO and now working with the
(14:14):
OCS?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
So you're talking from an industry perspective or
commodity.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Why don't we start as industry, and then we'll go
commodity?
Speaker 3 (14:23):
So industry?
I certainly see the OCSutilizing a lot of LCBO
infrastructure.
So the way they're doing theproduct calls, I'm guessing,
similar the way they purchaseproduct.
The thing I can't get my headaround is they don't try the
product In LCBO.
(14:45):
For example, when I was avintage as wine buyer, I mean
we'd put a call out just likeOCS, and say we'd say Spanish
Reds and we're looking for thisright at this price.
We could get 2,000 submissionsand through a process that would
be dwindled down to about 100.
And then we would taste all 100.
There'd be multiple people in ablind tasting.
(15:07):
And how do you identify what isa great product from a
spreadsheet and a pitch deck?
And it's a challenge for thosebuyers like kudos, because
they've done a relatively greatjob in some respects picking
without that.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
It's purely data driven, 100%.
That's all it is.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I was actually talking to the product all the
time Later.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
than yesterday we were at the OCS retailer summit.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Oh, I remember about that.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah, and it just drove me crazy listening to the
product manager and how theychoose, how they curate.
And it was just like but nobodytries anything and that's just
like a disconnect for me andyou're just confirming it now,
and something that you'venoticed from working in both
industries, and so thanks forconfirming it.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Oh, you're welcome.
The hard part is, with wine wehad to spit.
There was a spittoon, right,right, and so even hundreds of
dollars, bottles like bottlesthat are 5, 6, 100, we're still
using a spittoon and that'sobviously that's a harder thing
to do with cannabis.
So I just you know it'spolarizing on one hand you
should try it, or if someone tryit and give some feedback, on
(16:15):
the other, that person would besuper high.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Right yeah.
So, I think if they looked andeven just smelt it and touched
it, though, that would be a lotbetter.
And maybe that is this spittoonhalfway where you meet like
open a bag, especially in flour,and like feel it and smell it,
and I think, without even thatwould just be an improvement of
purely data, wouldn't you agree?
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah, 100%.
And like gummies, like look atthem smell them.
Right, I don't know if you canchew it and spit it out.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
But the cure is right , like they're not all globby
and weird and like at least dothat you could certainly
spittoon a beverage right.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, you can 100%.
Yeah, I mean it adds to thecomplexity of the call, for sure
, and probably lead times onsome of that, but yeah, so one
synergy is that the way they'reproduct calling and things.
But I mean the biggestdifference is that the OCS is
also a retail online shop rightand of course government runs
(17:10):
stores.
So differences and similaritiesexist?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, I'm curious too .
Do you know off the top of yourhead like, for instance, you
covered wine?
How many skews did they have?
Oh my God, 1,023.
I mean, I would rotate all thetime, right, that's a good
question, yeah it does.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Well, when I was there we had so there's two.
There was kind of at that point.
It's changed.
Now there were two winedivisions.
There's your general purchase,which are the products there all
the time, like think youryellow tail, barefoot, like your
standards, and then vintages.
And vintages had essentialswhich were similar, that they
were there all the time, butthen they had thousands and
(17:52):
thousands of products that comein a note when there's like 100
or 200 cases available andyou're just blowing it through
Right.
So really, really high skewcount.
I was fortunate that I was.
I worked in both of thosedivisions and it's just, you
really get a feel for buying isan art and science and the OCS
(18:15):
buyers are dealing with thatsame thing.
Like there's a gut instinct, acommercial instinct that you
just feel is right, and then thescience of the numbers and the
actual tasting.
That married together andthat's how you make your
decision and, like you and Iwere talking about before the
podcast, like we all buy dogs,all of us.
I'm not gonna name my dogs, butI have a list.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
That was some wines I bought that I shouldn't have,
but we all have.
That's the life learning rightTo get better.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
So yeah, that's true.
I guess you're right.
You do buy bottles of wineevery once in a while at the
LCBO too, just like you wouldbuy a a not so great bag of weed
from us, like you hate that, Iguess.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Only our exit plan is different.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yes, we talked about yours yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
That's actually a perfect lead up.
I can't wait to answer it.
We had a great question fromone of our listeners, trevor the
Can of Paddler.
We'll answer it when we getback, but he asked if we ever
buy dogs and what we do with it.
Yeah, that's a good one.
Great question.
Well, we'll hit you up.
We'll answer that.
You want a rip tip, trevor.
Thanks for the question andreminder that you can still win
(19:17):
a rip tip.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
We have a couple, so shoot us a question, kick it
around and follow at higherorbit and at CosmicCharlie'sshop
, and she will be right back.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Good morning.
Second coffees.
I think it's a little early forSheesh.
I thought about it but I'm like, is it ever too early?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Sean, it's never too early for Sheesh.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
We're here with Jackie McAskill, I'll do it.
Maybe I'll do it the next onethere you go.
There you go.
Just to touch back off.
We did have a great questionfrom Trevor.
I'm gonna read it as hementioned it.
We were talking about dogs withJackie and how it's just an
inevitable part of life.
Question was great it's haveany products been sampled by
Charlie or Sean or staff andimmediately put on clearance to
(20:10):
clear out, or what was theoldest product that shows up in
your order and you're now stuckwith to sell?
So definitely happens.
Absolutely, trevor.
I mean I can definitely listoff a bunch.
I kind of had to dig deep justto remind us of, kind of some of
those shit products we got.
I would have to say it's prettysad, because we were even
(20:33):
talking about it too.
We don't really get the chanceeither to sample stuff, so
you're kind of you learn how tobuy, who to trust?
Do you have a bit of a gutfeeling?
You really kind of spoke to itwell, jackie, and you bring in
stuff and sometimes it's justawful and it can be expensive
and it's also deteriorating.
So like you get it bad qualityand it just gets to be even
(20:56):
worse, which is one of the bigdifferences I would say between
alcohol and like we're aconsumer package.
Good, but it's also kind oflike produce in a sense, because
it does deteriorate or have ashelf life.
But I can at least remember,like off the top of my head
there was at least five, and Idon't know if we want to shred
them too bad, but I have a listof maybe like 15.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
And we can be pretty.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I have a list.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I have a list.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
You're checking it twice without everybody.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Actually, we should just shred them.
That's when I get the mostfired up.
You were speaking about how youworked at Hexo too.
How long ago were they on thelist.
That one's notorious theNorthern.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Berry, absolute trash Took us a long time to move it.
We got a.
It was old when it got here andthen it took a really long time
to move.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I remember me in one detail we hugged when he sold
the last bag and we got pizza.
Really fucking.
We did get some food, yes.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, I have a little side story about up.
I'll share out of school,please.
When I entered into cannabis atHexo I was learning about the
brands and just before I joinedthey positioned we had
positioned up as a premiumthreshold with a plus 20% THC
(22:11):
promise.
That meant every bag would haveto do that.
So I mean the good learningthat is takeaway like you've got
to be able to grow plus 20% tomake that work longterm.
So there's challenges, for sure.
But Northern Berry was thecrown gem, so the fact that
you're shitting on that one isheartbreaking.
(22:31):
But yeah, okay, I'll take it onthe chin.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
It's not your fault and again, I do tend to try to
be careful because I know it isa plant and it's hard and I see
growers who grow it and theyhave so much passion and love.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And then for me to just go.
I think you're back meddlingnow.
I think you're back.
Oh, I stand by it.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
It wasn't good.
But again, I will answer theother half of this question and
I also want to specifically saywhy and we do often well either,
smoke bags of it to help kindof dwindle the inventory.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
To help the sales.
Help the sales, exactly.
That's so good of you.
You are good.
Well, let's not try it.
Let's not try it so that theyknow what's up you can sell it.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
And then we often do reduce the price because we
don't want our customers to feellike they got dogged.
Smart yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And so at least they know they're buying something
that's really cheap, and theyknow it's usually.
You know it's cheap for areason.
I would say it's on clearance.
When I buy that, it doesn'tmeet our standard, right?
Yeah, even when you go to theLCBO and you buy that clearance
beer and you're like it looksweird, it's like the cranberry
stout or whatever, right, andit's like ugh, it sounds gross.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
And then there was a second part of the question and
it's tricky because it's alittle nuanced, because I think
that what we consider old isstrange in this industry.
I mean, there are standardsthat the OCS follows.
They can't send us somethinglike a pre-roller bag of flour
if it's nine months or older.
But it does happen from time totime where we get something
that was packaged like seven oreight months or like right on
(24:01):
the cusp and you're like oh,what the fuck?
But like that said, we've kindof learned that like four or
five months isn't really thatold.
You know what I mean.
But again, we'll open it, checkon it, make sure it hasn't
turned into dust and just makesure we do right by the customer
, because that's the mostimportant thing.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
You should have a section of your store called
Charlie's Dogs and mark themdown and make it a destination.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Charlie's Doggies yeah, we'll come in.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
No, look at it.
Charlie thinks it's a dog, butI'm gonna get a great deal.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, I have nothing else.
I've flirted with that idea fora while.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
On that note, there's every so often when you have a,
like you put a dog on a dealand you get that random person
that just that product speaks tothem.
They come in and they buy itall I don't know, like the high
buddy, like do you know what Imean?
Like I don't know.
I always thought that I've beenin this industry a long time
and I don't know.
Someone's garbage is someoneelse's gold sometimes.
It's funny, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
You nailed it Different strokes for different
folks, for sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, definitely creative ways to do it.
But yeah, I mean there's beensome fallen soldiers.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
I mean Sean, I've also just smacked it down,
smoked it down, trying to thinkif there's anything else.
That was terrible.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
What do you guys do for your business so impressive?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
It's hard work.
Yeah, it's tough.
It's been like.
It's definitely a journey.
It's like figuring out how,what to do with the dogs, what
to how to pick your products,who to trust.
Right For sure, there's a lotgoing on.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Well, I was just gonna ask you what you learned
from that, from those dogs.
What do you take away and go?
Okay, here's what I'm gonna donext time as a result, like what
you just said trust.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
That's a big one.
It is Reputation, right it is.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Certainly like you start to build up relationships
with people too.
So when you kind of run intotrouble, you can reasonably so
get a bit of help.
And what that looks like mightbe like hey, I have this weed,
it's not selling or it'sstraight up not good.
How can you help me?
Do you wanna do a pop-ups, andeasy one?
(26:00):
Come in and help us subsidizethe sale.
Do anything that like sparkssales.
So thankfully we haven't had todo that too much and we try to
just manage it our own way.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
That's a great exit.
A plan for it Likecollaboration, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
You don't wanna like shit on people too bad.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah, I find, as long as you're like polite about it
and we're pretty good at beingdiplomatic, that like people are
usually generally happy to hearthe feedback, if that makes
sense I don't know like mostpeople are and you get the
occasional outsider who's likeoutlier.
I can think that like wants toargue with me about it, and then
I have to be like no, you'rewrong, come buy your product
(26:37):
back.
Thank you, but anyways, that'svery rare, I would say.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I think, Matt, I might cry if you gave us
feedback like your product shit,I think we might cry.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I don't think it would be possible.
So yeah, we have no reason tosay that.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
What sets you apart is the visionary in the cannabis
.
Cannabis sector.
Jackie, I would say that, likewhat have you used in your, in
those other industries that youbrought over, you think there's
been the most valuable to you.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I'm gonna say there's a surprising amount of
synergies between wine andcannabis and specifically when
you think about what a canisterand connoisseur are looking for.
You know a connoisseur of wineis looking for a sense of place,
time people.
(27:29):
They're looking for provenance,like understanding where it
came from, the history, thetaste profile.
And when you pivot that over tocannabis, it's shockingly the
same.
You know it has a stigma behindit that makes you have to kind
of clear the air to see.
But you know, when you look atsheesh, when Matt and I, when we
(27:52):
first met through a mutualfriend, we were talking and we
were both in beverage andpassionate and both love
cannabis and we're looking to dosomething.
And Matt just brings such adepth of consumer understanding
and retail understanding of thismarket.
And you know I bring adifferent aspect right with my
history.
So you know he's like I thinkthere's a gap in the market for,
(28:15):
you know, a cola in this pricepoint and this kind of Thing.
And I said I, this is where Ibrought the wine.
I said I think Something withprominence like that, a strain
specific to me, that's a singlevarietal right and Using strains
.
Guys, I know this isn't apopular thing to say on the
podcast, probably, but some ofthese strain names, jesus Christ
(28:37):
, like you're never gonna see medo like white widow ever.
I don't care if you say it isthe best, I just like I'll be
smoking.
My friend will go what's that?
Oh, I'm smoking white widow.
Like it just not gonna workright.
So we're we're careful aboutthe strains we select.
They have to be the right tasteprofile, terpene profile, all
of those things but they alsohave to be something where you
(28:59):
know we're proud to Repeat.
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we brought together, webrought those elements and
Created it, created our baby,sheesh.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, and what a baby , it is.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah, we love it.
You know, it's just kind ofpopped in my head and I wonder
if you ever tried it.
There was a, just because itwas a little more deluxe, more
premium.
It was the regal grape sparkler.
Oh, that was good importedfruit juice.
It was really good.
I just think again in terms of,like, more refined palate, more
(29:35):
it almost had like a dry, moreof a cidery type of eye, but
like just being elevated, beingmore mouthfeely Wasn't trained
specific.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
There was two skews right.
I think I tried.
There's two.
I think I tried that at a tradeshow.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I was.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
I loved it.
I thought it tasted great ittasted, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
And then there was another one, and he wasn't
around very long, but it was alow dose.
Which one was that?
Sean the white one.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Oh White, one white, can you know talking about.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
It was kind of like a more.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Oh yeah, exactly, you Vava, you Vava that.
Yeah, the pear thing.
Yeah, it was more, that waslike after a sparkling wine.
Yeah, it was supposed to belike a sparkling grape.
Listen.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I tried that too.
I love that it was the reality,though, in in looking at the
numbers and I mean Matt's had tolike Corrective course action
me a few times on this I I tendto look at numbers in, you know,
alcohol and in Non-controlledsubstances and think that those
trends and those numbers shouldapply to cannabis beverages.
(30:43):
It is super clear to me theydon't, and my own analysis,
which is that's very specializedcategory management, deep dives
and it it doesn't like the waysugar is interpreted in this
industry versus outside, the waythe potency, like people aren't
buying coolers in alcoholbecause it has a high THC,
(31:05):
they're just not a high alcohol.
They're not like, oh, thisone's 20% and buying it, they're
buying five, they're buyinglower, in fact, right, so you
can't always, you know, assumethat those trends are gonna turn
out here, and so I don't thinkthe consumers ready for that
wine Knock off right now, yeah,or that wine integration.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
We need to mature out a little bit soon.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
I could see that in a couple years.
It's not now.
Trust me, do I have conceptsand ideas for that?
You can't even fathom.
I'm a whole brand ready thatwould be, really wait for it,
but but we're just, we're not.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
We're not there yet.
Yeah, no, it makes sense slowgrowth.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
You know that would be like if you could do like
more than 10 milligrams.
I thought that was funny thatwe got like we can buy more than
, like you know, three or fourdrinks now because of the volume
limit, mm-hmm, but we stillcan't buy like a six pack of
sheesh because that would be 60milligrams or whatever.
So I guess the big step forwardwould be that like uncap on the
10 milligrams, right, and thatwould really open up a lot of
things from ever just I thinktoo.
(32:08):
I would you know, and you couldhave a bigger bottle format with
more in it to share.
Sharing for me, yeah, I lovethat.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
To me it's.
It's still about education.
There's still that, aneducation that's targeted to the
right consumer, not just broadstrokes.
Right, like I was talking alittle bit about the education
I'm working on through gettingwine consumers to understand
cannabis, it's, it's.
It's absolutely astounding tome when, typically, I would have
(32:38):
a wine night At my house and Istill do.
I have.
It will never replace winecompletely in my life, but
there's nights, it's cancannabis drinks and specifically
, sheesh, and how I get peoplein the wine.
I'd like they look at the can,as I said, and they're like, oh,
hash, is that even legal hash?
But I'm like, oh, my god,there's so much work we need to
(33:00):
do, right, and then, beyond that, how I hook them and how I get
them to really engage in thisconversation, is, I say, our Our
?
Actually, our cherry juice isfrom cherry Lane in Vineland,
which is a wine growing region.
Oh, I know cherry Lane.
Yeah, we use real juice.
And then you know a singlestrain which is, you know, our
(33:21):
cherry mac is the same as asingle varietal.
Oh, okay, like you got to speakthat language to talk to that
consumer so they get it.
And that's the biggeropportunity once more people
understand than the product tomeet their needs can be created
Right, but until that, I thinkyou know it's a pause.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I would agree still lots of work to be done.
I love that comparison.
Can you share a little bitabout the project that you're
working on, or almost?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
almost completed.
Yeah, I finished the manuscript.
So when I was at Hexo and I waslearning, like absorbing
everything I could aboutcannabis, I mean actually I made
a commitment it would be sixmonths to my partner because we
don't have a life that'sconducive to me working
corporately full-time all thetime, and I ended up staying a
(34:09):
year because I loved it so much.
It was learning so much fromguys like Todd right, todd, and
the project that I'm working onactually stems from all the
information I was getting.
I was comparing and contrastingto wine.
So I wrote a book and I have aCanadian publisher in Genium
(34:29):
that's coming out next springand it's called chill the wine
lovers guide to understandingcannabis.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Yeah, and I talk about them as cousins, like
Venus Venifera is the wine graperight and cannabis and a little
bit just for the historychapter.
And I talk about, you know,ones recovering from a bad stint
in jail and Working on areputation.
You know I have advertisementsof the Pope promoting a wine in
the 1800s.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Wow right.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
I said like look at the and then the difference and
it's crazy.
So my goal in that is to reallyempower and educate wine
consumers.
It's not to, you know, convincethem cannabis is better and you
should try cannabis.
But please understand thebasics, see the possible
advantages to your life and justbe knowledgeable and informed,
(35:19):
because even if you choose notto do it, I guarantee that it
will alter your stigma towardspeople that do right and it
could benefit your life in agreat way.
So that's the premise.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I love it.
I can't wait to pick up a copreally cool perspective.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I can't great to grab a copy, yeah.
I can't see it be awesome.
I'm really excited about thatawesome.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
I'm trying to get it out from Mother's Day.
It's a great Mother's Day gift.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
I think so that one mother in your life for sure.
Yeah, I mean, we still see itall all the time, just having
that firsthand contact withpeople in the store or what have
you it's.
It's still pretty strong kindof a stigma and it's yeah, I can
think of a better comparisonreally do you get the side eye?
Speaker 3 (35:58):
I get, because when my wine friends and I'm holding
the sheesh, I get a side eye.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Oh yeah, I was mentioning yeah, definitely like
people look oh, terpenes, andthis and the wall weeds the same
.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I'm like you know where you hook them.
There's Many of the wines havethe same terpenes.
Oh.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
I mean, is in some in Yambolanc and it's in lemon
haze like there's.
There's some great synergies.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, I think so.
I think it's more so too.
Sometimes people with wine geta little snooty and just want to
sound like Never.
I mean, it happens in thisindustry too, with people's weed
, so we got to be careful aboutthat.
But I don't want that sameLevel of I, like you, can't
smoke Hexo northern berry.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Have you ever talked to a legacy grower?
Long-term legacy grower.
Yeah, yeah, we'll tell youwhat's what in a heartbeat.
In their own way, it's notsnooty, but they'll, they'll
tell you what's what.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
yeah, yeah, it's okay to have opinions.
Yeah, it's interesting to it,picked up on something you said
there.
So your partner, your lifeisn't conducive to working the
corporate life anymore.
How have you found balancingEntrepreneurship, because I feel
like that's probably likeequally as yeah, all the time,
(37:18):
yeah, yeah, it's you know.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
My crew has been interesting, right.
Big corporations can a tireLCBO, unilever, and then on the
flip side consulting An equitypartner and a couple non alcohol
cannabis businesses, and soI've been an entrepreneur in
that respect.
And then this with Matt hasbeen Amazing.
(37:43):
So you know it is a transition,but I think the roles I've had
at those corporations alwaysallowed me to bring an
entrepreneurial spirit to them.
Category management is, like Isaid, that art, component of the
art and science is my passion,right?
So yeah, I think adjusting toEntrepreneurship can be really
(38:04):
difficult but I thrive, I loveit.
I miss people like I thinksometimes I come at just to call
Matt and he's like what's up?
And I'm like as your day, likeI, you know I miss that, that
group infrastructure, but yeah,aside from that, it's awesome
and it works for my life amazing.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Nailed it.
Yeah, I guess I Guess I shouldhave a she, I think so.
Just a reminder.
You got to do the upside downand like tip it back up, right
Is that the move Can?
Speaker 3 (38:43):
yeah, there's a little move right, there's a
real juice you want to make sureit's evenly distributed.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, oh, one second.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
I was gonna ask you to share that camp, but not now.
I.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Didn't think about it .
We'll open another one.
We'll be right back with JackieMcAskill.
I always kill everybody's name,sorry, jackie from.
She's so nice.
I Welcome back everybody backto the shop, jackie, she so does
(39:24):
.
I got a great question for you.
How did you meet Matt?
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Our mutual friend Mitch Stern from station Colbert
back in the day.
He's one of my favorite humansand one of Matt's, and he for a
while.
He's like.
You got to meet this guy, matt.
You guys have so much in commonand I guess the other side he
was doing the same thing, so wehad an epic meeting and,
honestly, so you wouldn't be abetter partnership.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Yeah, you were coffee .
You're in the coffee biz beforenot really.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Yeah, I did some consulting and I have a small
ownership stick and I had thatin a station.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
So that's how yeah, love that stuff.
Just on that topic, it justpopped into my head Is it harder
to make like an emulsifiedstill beverage, because I feel
like Coffee is a home run, butthere was a fizzy coffee and it
was can a Joe, I remember.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
I say they are out of the bus.
It was not awful.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
It was really gross.
I don't ever tried that, but itwas not good.
Yeah, I mean worse when I'vetried to market.
I'm gonna just say it, it wasthe worst drink I've ever tried.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
I actually sick.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Yeah.
Yeah it makes me think of thosemudslides.
The alcohol wins.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Nairly they had one that was like a latte and one
that was like an espresso thing,and they were both just gross.
And then the latte one was likeit had oat beverage and it was
still at pervescent.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Honestly, you got to stop talking.
I'm gonna lose the, the bananabread or whatever that was so
funny.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Sorry so bad.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
All right, I'm sorry, is it harder to make like a,
not like a, still beveragebecause you don't see that many
to be honest.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Yeah, I mean Carbonation hides imperfections,
right.
So it's that.
And sometimes, depending whatyou're mix on, the
emulsification really has to bestabilized, otherwise you get
separation.
I mean there's some things.
Everything has their ownchallenges, but I'd say, in my
opinion, it would be a littleharder.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah interesting, and there's also a rule about
Caffeine and the product.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Well, yeah, alcohol and cannabis have a 30 milligram
max.
Okay, caffeine and yeah did shehave caffeine, not currently.
No, okay.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah, I was just curious.
It's something popped in myhead.
I was like I don't know.
Yeah, there's a cola cola tends.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, sometimes does minor amounts for it.
Yeah, doesn't need it stillgreat, oh amazing, how'd you
even come up with that Nate?
Speaker 3 (41:48):
actually, I can't take any credit for that.
In fact, we were, oh man.
So I reached out to a couplepeople I knew that owned small
agencies and things.
I said, how much would it be todo a brand packing?
Give us some.
And I was getting like 70,000,a friendship deal.
I'm like what?
And I said, matt, we're gonnahave to figure this out right.
And Little did I know that notonly is Matt, you know,
(42:12):
brilliant at understanding thecannabis consumer, he's also a
creative genius.
It is like he came up with somenames and when he said she, I
like Kai Basta, right away, I'mlike no, stupid, like that's the
kid going.
She, right, like I'm like noway, I'm not doing that right.
And and then he circled back.
He goes, listen, I really needyou to reprocess that.
(42:34):
And I'm like okay.
And then I did.
And we just we roll.
Like the amount of times Mattand I take separate Positions on
so many things and I think wedo that because we're a group of
two and we have to really turnall the rocks and Stones to make
sure we've looked at it fromevery angle and we always seem
(42:56):
to come out with a decision weboth agree with.
That were like it's right, andDefinitely he nailed this.
This was his ideation on thename and I love it now.
So very few people can get meto change my mind.
He's really good at it.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
That's a good, good working relationship.
It's important to kind of havethose two different views and
then you battle through.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
It seems like you and I think we take Oppositional
perspective sometimes just to dothat, to make sure we really
run through everything.
Team of two you gotta do.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Yeah, I'm glad you came around, because I can't
imagine being anything else.
So there you go.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Hmm, how'd you land on cherry cola, kind of being
the first way?
Speaker 3 (43:38):
well, we looked at what was strong in the market,
what we thought trending flavorswere.
We had a couple actually in thehopper out of the beginning and
Cherry just edged it out.
We just felt like the brand wasgonna be nostalgic, 80s vibe,
that whole you know, soda jerkkind of thing, and and the
(44:00):
cherry cola fit the bill andwhen we tried the formulation
and everything it was ano-brainer.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
It's a home run.
How do you Ensure consistencyand quality and like the input
of the rosin, like what is like?
What are, like the checkboxesyou guys look for?
I guess?
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Well, we source the original cannabis from really
reputable growers great startslike it completely does.
I don't know if I told you, butI mean he even went to the, the
facility where they grow someof our cannabis, to be part of
that and has some video and he'sdone a great job.
So really filtering to makesure that we are getting the
(44:38):
absolute best growers, theabsolute best cannabis input,
and then working with industryleaders to transition that into
the rosin.
Wow and it, guys, thetruthfully comes down to
partnerships.
Yeah partnerships with ourco-packer, our rosin producer,
our everything top-notch andthat it's important.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, I feel like it's so important.
When you're going through those, those motions and trying to
figure out who you want to teamup with, there's always like
options out there and justwhat's the right fit for you and
what you're trying to do inyour brand.
Right so 100%.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, I guess quickly to spin off that, it something
that came to mind.
I know we're trying to getsheesh out and to other markets,
of course a little differenthow they operate, and I could be
mixing up my you know brainhere a little bit.
But I think, like for instancein BC, does it have to be
produced there?
Speaker 3 (45:30):
No, it doesn't okay, but it's seeming like to get a
listing there.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
You might have to right, so the station BC might
be a little different.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
Well, our next beverage that you know the
Voldemort, we're not going tosay his name.
Yeah, that cannabis.
The bet is being sourced fromBC.
Okay, awesome, it is BC grown.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
You make it undeniable for them.
Yeah, yeah and we're again.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
We're looking for the best, like sheesh is based on
three founding principles, andthose principles everything from
how Matt and I interact withone another, the type of people
we are, the partners that wehave, like you guys all have to
check those boxes and and thoseboxes are Quality at every
(46:20):
single touch point, everything,the people we work with, the
ingredients we use, theco-manufacturer, everything
right, relevant Innovation.
So not innovation just becausewe're gonna do another flavor of
the same shit, right?
Or we're gonna do, you know notthat.
It has to be relevant to theconsumer and really mean a need
(46:44):
for real right.
So we've got quality, we've gotinnovation and and the biggest
one in my mind is transparency,and that is authenticity.
So we can tell you where theplant was grown, we can tell you
where our juice was sourced.
You know everything we're doingis based on that right quality,
(47:05):
transparency and relevantinnovation, and we couldn't have
a better partnership.
When we think of that isexactly what you're doing here.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Thanks so much for saying that, jackie.
Yeah, and the devil's in thedetails.
So I couldn't agree with youmore.
And you know, when you say youhave a big Idea or a plan, you
want to bring it to fruition.
It's like you really got tomake sure you have everything
figured out, and you guysdefinitely, definitely do so,
totally thank you With respectto, I would say, most cannabis
products.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
As far as I know, it seems like a lot of people tend
to forget to give good feedback.
Do you find you're getting lotsof good feedback or have you
gotten any bad feedback either,like how do you incorporate that
?
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Yeah, I, I got to be honest it.
It is absolutely crazy, I'mgonna say, and this is no
exaggeration, I think I haveonly ever heard One slightly
negative piece and these, and Idon't tell, like I'm not the
face of the brand, right, so alot of people that I'm
introducing it to, even friendsof mine, don't even really know
(48:10):
what I'm doing or the brand.
So I'm saying try this rightand and I mean I Was that, oh,
it's carbonation.
It's like a slight carbon, theysaid they said could you do a
higher carbonation?
Unfortunately Our manufacturingfacility cannot.
We you know.
(48:31):
But that's the one piece offeedback we've received.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
That's funny, I like.
I like that it's not ascarbonated, because I find that
I, I find you, can taste thecherry juice more and I can
taste the cannabis a little morebecause it's not as that
Provescent to.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
but that's my take well, a lot of people think low
carbonated product is also moresessionable.
I mean, you can drink moreconsecutively without that
Correct yeah.
Yeah.
So you know, maybe, like likewe said earlier, different
strokes for different folks,yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
I tend to like a like a pretty fizzy drink, but I
think it it lends well just tothe beverage itself being like a
more natural, like it doesn'treally have like the sickly
sweet can of your averageCoca-Cola, vibe or Pepsi.
I would say for me is a littlemore sickly sweet, you know.
I mean like it kind of justtastes.
Yeah, I don't know, it's alittle more natural.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
You got to think about it.
Right Like there's, you knowthere's.
We don't list it, but in theother flavors there's cinnamon
in there, there's ginger beer inthere, there's.
You know what I mean?
It's we didn't just payattention to the.
Again, one of those pegs isquality.
It's not just about the qualityrosin, it's about the rest of
the drink also delivering,because how much of that can is
(49:41):
the rest of the drink?
Speaker 2 (49:43):
Yeah, yeah 94% yeah, so you got to pay attention.
Yeah, right, yeah, those littledetails absolutely Um 31 awards
.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
We said the awards.
Yeah, you guys, we're excited,I guess, to get you.
Maybe, I guess, no, I guesswhat?
Next year's awards?
When did one of the awardsclose?
They close on April, so we'llget.
Definitely, I guess we'll beaccepting your next release as a
submission.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
I don't know where I was going with that Excellent.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Funny thought I had and I couldn't articulate it
properly.
Whatever, I'll own it.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
You know, I love that .
Yeah, you know but we'll besubmitting.
Well, yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
She's so did, but anyways yeah we did talk about.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
You know, the next big thing, kind of being he, who
, they, who shall not be named.
Do you think in the brand, andagain, maybe, as maturity
happens, would you ever expandcategories?
We're gonna stick to beverages.
Any big plans in that regardthat you could sure?
Speaker 3 (50:46):
um, I you know, I think a mistake a lot of
companies do is they innovateoutside of their wheelhouse too
quickly.
So, although Matt and I areinnovation product expert, like
that's what we do and Do we havea plan?
Yes, at some point, right, butI can tell you we want to make
(51:09):
sure we get the beverageCategory right and our portfolio
right before looking andputting our eyes somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
No need to rush in anything.
Yeah, that makes sense.
I totally agree.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Yeah, yeah, we do see that happen, I think, in the
market, and it's kind ofconfusing and usually not very
good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
Put your aces in your places.
Our ace is beverage right now.
Maybe we get enough learning.
A lot of expertise, brandequity that makes sense to Just
step out into it, you know thisis in your places.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
I've never heard that before.
I really like it.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
Definitely one, jackie's on card player yeah, I
do like it.
Yeah, I'm gonna use that youcan ever son.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
I am Housekeeping Awards, oh, or rip tips, oh, rip
tips, yeah, we still needquestions.
If you got a question forJackie or me or Charlie, you
know, send it in to Sean athigher orbit.
Or Charlie at higher orbit, dotcom to the CA, yeah, or she's,
(52:16):
you know, send a question in.
Why don't we do?
Why don't we call the hotline?
What?
What is the hotline number?
Again, yeah, for people thatdon't know.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
It's 1877, no no 1833 potline okay 1833 potline.
Give him a ring.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
There's something you don't know about it we actually
have.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Other end of that one .
Speaker 3 (52:47):
Zero and tell us about it.
Matter of fact, tell uswhatever, just hash it out.
You might end up on ourInstagram.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
Oh, it does that every time.
I thought, it was a good one.
How many times we called that?
And we still fuck it up on.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Every time I forget about the pause.
Speaker 3 (53:18):
I don't know why, but that's okay guys, it's your
opportunity to ask those deepquestions, because there are
brilliant people that are gonnaanswer that yeah, yeah, I'm not
gonna name them like is it theseed or plant that came first,
right is it?
Speaker 1 (53:36):
See Plant.
Had to be the plant to me hadto be the plan to make the seed
right.
I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
That's, yeah, that's still fucks me up I.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
Can see you're in deep thought about it.
So that's, these are the kindof questions you should ask the
potline.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Oh, that's good.
We should ask morethought-provoking questions on
the podcast.
Really, what is the meaning oflife?
Speaker 3 (54:00):
No, here's one I said to my daughter.
She's like I said.
I always say life isn't fairand she goes well, life isn't
fair for everyone.
Doesn't that mean it's fair?
And I'm like silence.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
Holy shit yeah 14 damn man.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
I like that because I flipped my mind on that.
I think life is perfectly fairoh.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Yeah, I look forward to the day my son says something
like that to me.
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (54:26):
Yeah, don't look forward to it.
You have this silent ignorance.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
That was a great rebuttal by your daughter, I
guess I feel like ah.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
Totally just seems like so far from now, but I know
it'll come so quick.
You know you just have one kid.
Speaker 3 (54:42):
I do one amazing kid.
That's a wonderful wife who'sin the wine industry.
Fantastic yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
Let's go to always like to talk a little bit.
I hit you up with the personallife, why not?
You always live in Toronto, oh,my goodness no it is not not
before.
Speaker 3 (54:56):
I always live there.
I grew up in a small townactually called Hanover.
Okay which is about three hourstwo and a half hours from here,
and then I started my careerand lived in Toronto for about
22 years.
Okay beaches area and then,yeah, now I'm in Stony Creek
which sometimes I call stonerCreek, just Tony On the water,
(55:19):
and I just love it it's nice outthere.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
I like Stony Creek, yeah, like it's kind of caught
on water down too.
It's all kind of a nice area.
Speaker 3 (55:25):
I love it.
Yeah, I love being in betweenaccessible to Toronto easy-peasy
, and to, you know, the wineregion and nature, wine region
Totally, and stoner Creek, whynot?
Speaker 1 (55:36):
It makes sense to me.
There are quite a fewdispensaries there, I believe.
There are yeah, anything elsewith she soda.
That's it.
Follow a cheese, follow acheese.
What is it at she?
Speaker 3 (55:48):
She so does she so does.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
That's it as simple as it is.
Speaker 2 (55:51):
Yeah, she so does.
Shoot them a question, calltheir hotline, give us a like,
follow or share it with thefront they come by she soda at
College of Charlie's at H1Queens Street West.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
Of course, don't forget.
Speaker 3 (56:03):
Thanks for having me, guys, thanks oh.
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