Mobb Deep + OutKast VS, J. Cole "cLOUDs," Naughty, The Roots, Eminem, Ransom, MORE!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Outro Music.

(00:39):
Welcome to Hip Hop Talks, theonly hip hop podcast that
apparently needs to start givingout ghost titles, because
people keep biting our shit waytoo soon.
As soon as we do it, they biteit.
It's crazy.
I mean, it's not even the typeof biting Now, it's the

(01:01):
efficiency with which the bitinghas happened.
It's like, oh, they're dropping.
Can I steal the idea and try toget some views off the idea
before they actually get toexpress the idea?
Matter of fact, you want toknow what?
Let me do like these otherdudes do and keep pulling up,
never mind, sean, what up.
Biting efficiency is crazy, Okayso some of these guys, so some

(01:27):
of these dudes have become likeokay, so like KD and LeBron have
always been great scorers.
As they've gotten older,they've become more efficient
scorers.
See, the haters and the bitersare more efficient at the hating
and the biting.
The longer that they do thehating and the biting, they're
proficient at it.
Now they can get a master'sdegree in it.

(01:49):
Ag.
They might end up being a phd.
A player hated degree.
Ag, a player hated degree.
Yes, they're gonna have thesame type of phd as you, except
it's gonna be hater behind it.
All right.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Now that we got that out the way how's your week?

Speaker 1 (02:06):
How's your week, fellas?
Week's going well.
Week's going well.
Feel blessed, have a favor.
Peace to all.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
Peace to all.
Peace to all.
Love is love yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Except for these suck-ass niggas.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
I love them at all.
Love is love, man Love.
I don't know it's about.
I love them at all.
Love, love man, love.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Give it up, I don't know it's about to be one of
those.
I'm tired, I'm not tired.
I feel very well rested.
Actually, I've been getting alot of rest lately.
I feel good.
I haven't slept this well in awhile, the last couple of days,
ready to whoop some ass, takesome names.
First thing, guys, I gotactually got my first viral vibe
in a while and I think it'ssomething that everybody I think

(02:46):
we all as hip-hop heads, canagree on.
Um fellas, you know, west sidegun just dropped.
Uh, the 12 album.
Right, it's called 12, 12.
Okay I thought he said hestopped rapping.
Didn't he say he retired, hestopped rapping?

Speaker 2 (03:00):
rappers lie all the time all the time rap daily.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
They rap daily, they lie daily.
Um, respectfully, didn't nobodyask you for that.
We asked you for the stovealbum.
Um, yeah, I say thisrespectfully, I say this
respectfully.
Didn't, nobody ask you for allthat?
Um, streets already decided.
The indie hip hop media hasalready decided we've been
picking stove.
Haven decided we've beenpicking stove.

(03:25):
Haven't we all been pickingstove?
Am I wrong?

Speaker 2 (03:27):
yeah, I mean it's the reason why he's doing like four
or five tracks on the album.
I thought it was but whatever.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Okay, nice little five piece.
Okay, all right, stop playingwith us, give us the stove album
.
Okay, you guys are the guysthat restored the feeling.
Let's go ahead and let's keepthat momentum going and actually
give us the stove album.
I've heard a couple of Lucy'shere there every time Westside
drops.
Now it feels like stove is on aquarter or half of the album
and that's all well and good.

(03:54):
The suppliers and the consumershave asked for the same thing
man, if we're keeping it a buttproduct, that's right.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
The gap between reasonable drought and now is
the same thing man if we'rekeeping it a butt Product.
The gap between reasonabledrought now is the same distance
between them and Mr Morab.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Want some product.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Five years?
No, we're not going there.
Want some product?
No, no, no.
We've still done a lot offeatures, though.
No, no, no.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
AG's right on track, because that's actually what I
was about to say.
He took the words from mebecause I have to be fair, see,
I have to be consistent.
We can't be getting on Brothersfor taking five years off from
making a whole project and thennot say something.
Now, stove to his credit, hasprobably done about two albums
worth of features in hooks.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Yeah, nobody remembers.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Nobody remembers all that like if you don't close the
deal.
You know what?
My favorite like football teamgrowing up?
It was like the actual earlyEagles teams Randall Cunningham,
reggie White, jerome Brown,keith Jackson, keith Byers,
vasek Ahema, eric Allen, andreWaters.
That's one of the best footballteams I've ever seen.
But nobody remembers that teambecause they didn't win the ring

(05:06):
.
Yeah, that was a tough squad.
They were a tough, tough squad,but they didn't win anything,
so nobody remembers them.
And so, for all these greatsoul features and hooks and
having us indie podcasters allon lock and having the streets
all on lock and all that I mean,it doesn't mean nothing if you
don't culminate it with an album.

(05:26):
My vibe today is to push themto actually release Stowe's
project this year, this year.
Enough of these shenanigans.
We already have to deal withthis with Jermaine Cole.
We'll be talking about thatmomentarily.
We already have to deal withthis with Kendrick Lamar.
Very problematic how y'all arebehaving when my soul album.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
It's not coming.
I think he has a bad deal rightnow he's trying to get out of.
I think he has like a badrecord deal right now.
So that's hurting him forputting out the material.
That's why he's featured oneverything.
His feature run is his featurerun is enough for an out the
material.
That's why he's featuring oneverything.
His featuring run is enough foran actual album itself.
It is.
But I think he's still tryingto get out that bad deal and

(06:14):
that's what's hurting him.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Well, you know, he should do something about that.
Okay, on the new music.
Oh, actually musicanniversaries, let me check real
quick.
Oh see, I'm on my laptop rightnow.
It's not pulling up the chatyet, for some reason.
Let me check.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
I got it.
Yeah, Yo Stove got record labelissues, but his plug's solid
yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
Yeah, facts, facts.
Appreciate you double.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Salute bro.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
So we're going to, of course we're going to.
First, we're going to musicanniversaries, we're going to
new music.
What are we doing?

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, yeah, music anniversaries.
Let's actually start at the top.
On February 23rd 1993, naughtyby Nature released their album
1993, which obviously had theclassic hip-hop anthem, hip Hop
Hooray.
Thoughts about the group, aboutthe frontman Tretch, about the

(07:17):
album, about the single andabout their place in history, ag
go.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Tretch doesn't get enough credit.
He's one of hip-hop's best MCs.
As far as this album, it's notmy favorite from now.
My favorite from now isPoverty's Paradise, but this is
their most commerciallysuccessful album, correct?

Speaker 1 (07:42):
I don't think so, is it not?
Okay, I still feel like thefirst two did comparably well.
I feel like they both wentdouble platinum, maybe more, but
I still feel like it's thefirst one because of OPP.
That was the real.
Opp was the thing.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
Right.
But you know, in the annals ofhip-hop they're not talked about
enough.
If we're being honest, um, Ithink, uh, naughty, by nature,
is heavily underrated and youknow, timing is everything.
So, um, when they were the most, uh, when they were the height,
at the height of theirpopularity in their careers, um,
you know, rap kind of boomedlike right after that, after

(08:26):
they was like tailing off alittle bit.
So, um, I think they're leftout of a lot of conversation
that they should be there.
But you know, salute to naughtyand the anniversary on 1993.
Hip-hop array is forever ahip-hop staple, you know, one of
the biggest anthems that wehave, you know, in a hip hop

(08:46):
period.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
So, where would you rank it all time as a rap song,
AJ?

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Like it's definitely making, it's probably hitting
it's definitely top 100.
I don't know if I could put ittop 50, but it would be close
Like it would be like anywherebetween 50 and 75 in that
ballpark.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
OPP top 50?

Speaker 2 (09:07):
OPP is top 50, though right, yeah, opp would rank
higher.
Yeah, okay, opp is probablygoing to rank really high at the
end of the day.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
It's one of those.
It's one of those.
Yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Sean any thoughts about 1993?

Speaker 3 (09:25):
No, I grew up with AG .
Again, hip Hop Array was theone you know.
Young Sean, 13-year-old Sean,had love written on your kitten.
I don't even know why I was madman Written on your kitten and
Knockin' Out the Box is theother one.
Knockin' Out the Box was theother one on your kitten and
knocking about the box Knockingabout the box was the other one.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
That's my human resources department.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
at Hip Hop Talk I did it like written on your kitten,
the 12-year-old wasn't likingthat.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
I mean I found I had an overall affection for the
song as a whole.
I didn't necessarily hone in onthe kitten part, you know, but
but I can understand howHoneypack Sean at 13 years old.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
He was 12.
You're trying to figureyourself out.
I get it.
I just wasn't turning.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
I just, I just wasn't turning the hip hop anthem into
a song about sex.
That's what their previouship-hop anthem actually was.
That's what OPP is for.
Excuse me for loving hip-hop,for it being a joyful hip-hop
song.
What the hell was I thinking?
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Somebody showed Coop Digital Underground sex packets.
He was like 12-year-old.
Coop was like what's that?

Speaker 3 (10:44):
You know what the sex packets were?
He was like 12-year-oldCooper's, like what's that?
You know what the sex packetswere?
You knocked it, you pushed it,dot it ran.
I know, yes, I don't want it.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
It's going to be shenanigans this evening, also
on February 23rd.
Most of these anniversaries areon February 23rd today,
february 23rd 1999, when ThingsFall Apart by the Roots.
My partner in crime, andrew,and I actually just covered this
on Mirror Music on Tuesday.
If y'all haven't watched thatshow, you should.

(11:16):
It's one of me and Andrew'sbest shows, kind of covering
Things Fall Apart, things FallApart a classic for both of you
guys.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, but I kind of prefer illadale half-life, but I
you know.
But um, it's a classic and Idon't want to say too much
because I want people to doubleback and tune into y'all show
and mirror music, but I'll leaveit at that.
They're, they're comparable,though they're they're
comparable albums, both reallygood albums.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, sean, classic no.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
I think this album had.
I think it got caught up in thesecond wave of Philadelphia
Renaissance, because shortlyafter this, what's the first
wave?
I think they were part of thatfirst wave I think you're
talking about, you know, freshPrince, you know Jazzy Jeff and
again, I don't want to speak forall of Philly.

(12:11):
I know we got some Eddieexpenses out there.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
No, no, no, we're used to you being disrespectful.
Please just go ahead Continue.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
No, I just think that they have.
Philly had a couple ofrenaissances going on and it
wasn't really associated withhip hop.
You know you're talking aboutsoul music.
You're talking about, like that, the feeling right oh, you're
talking just musically, period.
You're not just talking hip hop,okay, okay and I think this,
this album, came out on the uh,the edge of that second or that

(12:42):
third renaissance of the music,because now you have state
property coming right after this, I think beans dropped.
What later on, 99 or early 2000?
When beans dropped, I thinkit's 2000, 2000, yeah, 2000.
So now you're talking aboutthat new wave, that news that
soulful music came back fullcircle, but with a true hip-hop

(13:03):
format.
Beans brought that forward.
It's a very musical city.
I think the Roots actually playa big part in that.
In the first and the secondwave maybe, but I think this
album was on the actual brink ofthat third wave, depending on
who you are and how you feelabout the music out there.
Shout out to Philly, though.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
A lot of Philly coverage, early Cooper's waxing
poetic about the Eagles, and nowwe got this album.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Just real quick and I would encourage everybody first
of all, like, share andsubscribe to our channel, but
also do the same with MirrorMusic.
We're literally only a fewpeople away from 2,000.
That'll probably be happeningduring the show or definitely be
done before the weekend's done.
I'm going to see to thatpersonally if not, but I'm just
going to tell you I do feel likethat.
This and Illidelf Life are bothclassics.

(13:55):
If you want to hear my fullthoughts on why both of those
albums are rap classics to me,tune into Mirror Music.
It's already up and loaded andwe're going to slide to the next
classic that was actuallydropped Same day, same year
Eminem Slim, shady LP AG.
I'm just going to be quiet andlet you take it over.
Go ahead.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
I'm going to ask Sean what he thinks yeah, I don't
want to.
I'm good, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Trust, trust, trust.
We want to monetize off thisshow.
We Trust, we want to monetizeoff this show.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
We don't want you talking about it as a resident
Eminem fan, I'm going to behonest, gentlemen.
I was late to the party withhim.
I didn't know the history ofhim, you know, being in the Rap
Olympics, coming through thebattle rap circuit or none of
that stuff.
All I remember is that I was asenior in high school and I

(14:45):
worked at a fast food spot.
You know it was a rallies.
You know what I mean.
And you know I worked with thiscat, you know white cat, and uh
, he would always, you know,making the burgers and stuff.
And he's rapping lyrics and I'mlike yo, what are you?
What are you saying?
Like, what are you rapping?
You know what I'm saying?
I ain't heard that before.
He like that's that eminem?
And he was telling me about himand I was just like, okay.

(15:06):
And then you know, mtv, this isthe height of the trl total
request live era.
Like you know once how my nameis blew up, you couldn't escape
it.
So I'm seeing it and I'm likeall right, this is a gimmick.
Like you know what I mean.
I thought it was just a little,you know, a parody type rap,
little gimmick thing, but itjust kept catching so much fire.

(15:26):
And then I'm going to workevery day and in high school, in
in class, people are talkingabout it and I'm just like, nah,
I'm not buying into it, there'sgoing to be another you know
vanilla ice thing, that's what Iwas subscribing to.
And then everybody was sayinglike, nah, dre is co-signing
dude.
And I'm still like, you know,dre is just doing anything at

(15:46):
this point to get a dollar, toget his second or third
Renaissance, as Sean just said.
So I still wasn't, you know,vibing with the whole thing.
And then I had another cat thatwas actually, you know, from
Queens, like Sean, queens getthe money.
That worked with us too.
And he was in high school withus and, uh, homie, all he used
to listen to was mob d, nah, cnn, wu-tang clan.

(16:09):
And then he came to work oneday he was like yo, adriel, I'm
telling you that m&m is fire.
So when he said that and shoutout to eddie like.
When he said that, I was likeokay, if he's co-signing, it
might be, might be something tothis.
So you know, the homie thatoriginally told me about it, the
white guy, he, like you know,he was like man, I sit in my car

(16:29):
during our lunch break.
He was like I'll play you thealbum or whatever.
So he sat in his car and heplayed joints like rock bottom.
You know, bad meets evil androle model.
And I was like yo dude is likereally dope at rapping.
You know what I'm saying,putting the words together,
everything.
And then when I finally boughtin all the way was when the

(16:50):
single and video came out forGuilty Conscious with Dr Dre.
That was my buy-in and afterthat I went and copped out.
I was like, alright, you know,this dude is dope, he's for real
.
I've been an Eminem fan eversince.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
But is it a classic?

Speaker 2 (17:09):
For me my favorite album is Eminem Show.
It's a classic.
I think Marshall Mathers isundebatable.
For this one I would say Closebut no Cigar.
I wouldn't call it a classic.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Okay, I would tell you that it's not close, but
it's a good album, it's aclassic.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
I would tell you that it's not close, but it's a good
album.
It's a 4.25.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
It's on the same level as the Black Star album,
the first Black Star album.
It's like that.
It's dope and you can heargreatness and there's some
really dope moments.
But it's not a hip-hop classic.
It's got some really dopemoments.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
A lot of people consider it a classic, but I
personally don't.
I say Eminem has this is thepossible.
I say he has two in thepossible.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
I don't think this is possible.
This is not a possible.
I think it's barely a four.
Really, it's barely a four.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
I don't give it a four, but it's barely a four,
like.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
I don't think it's a four, barely a four, alright.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yo shout out to the homie Sean you wanna I forgot
homie's name that Reached out tous from India.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yes, I'll probably butcher his name up.
Hope I don't pardon me if I do.
Akarsh, you, akarsh, you will.
Yeah, akarsh, rather, karshin,karshin.
I apologize if I butchered itup, but Akarsh, this was for you
, man.
Appreciate the audience.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
Big time Eminem fan reached out to us you know what
I'm saying and he wanted us totalk a little bit more about
Eminem.
And he wanted us to talk alittle bit more about Eminem and
it just so happened that, youknow, fell on one of the
anniversaries of his album.
So shout out to you and thankyou for tuning in.
All the way from India, man, wegot fans everywhere.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yes, and I'm going to get.
I'm going to get Sean a vocaland speech coach because I'm
going to go get my master's ininternational policy.
We're going to get Sean somehelp.
I'm going to do all that.
We're going to get Sean somehelp, good luck.
I'm going to go work for the UN.
Good luck, it's about to be onebig rap video at the UN.
Good luck.
February 25, 2003,.

(19:21):
Freeway released PhiladelphiaFreeway guys.
Is this album a classic and whatare your thoughts on this album
?
I'm actually kind of excited totalk about this album.
This is one of those projectsthat I enjoy, that I don't feel
like enough people talk about,and it's a project that none of
us we've never really talkedabout this project amongst the
three of us.
So, Sean, kick us off, since wedidn't let you in on the Eminem

(19:43):
conversation.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
I was happy for that.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah, yeah, we didn't want you there, such a damn
hater bro, I'm not a hater man.
I was actually me and AG wereactually hoping that you just
would have jumped all the wayout the box and just let AG, I
so forth.
I was going to pass AG the ball.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
You know no going to do it.
Shout out to our cars Feel itthere for your freeway?
Definitely, definitely.
I don't think.
Okay, it's not a classic, butit's knocking on the door of a
classic.
I don't want to just hand aclassic out to it, but it's
knocking on that door.
I would give it like a 4.3, 4.4.

(20:18):
Before I can give it anythingelse, out the Gate first four
songs Free.
What we Do All my Life FlipsideI mean hell On my Own with
Nelly.
Out the gate he came outswinging and just, oh my
goodness, the joint with Petey,the flipside with Petey.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
And then that is crazy.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
It's crazy.
Petey, petey Crack was.
He was one.
He was one of them.
He was one of them Got derailedbut he was one of them.
Line them Up with Chris at theend, the finish that's my
favorite song Again this waspart of that resurgence, that
renaissance of Philly, Becauseyou got Free coming out 2003 off
the heels of Jay getting readyto retire with a Black album,

(21:02):
and you got Beans established.
You got all of these thingsgoing and they come out the gate
with Free and he delivered withthis and this is one of Just
Blaze's best productions on thisalbum.
Just Blaze really laced him upon this album.
He gave him some very goodtracks that Free, the way Free
rapped, the way he attacked thebeats this is perfect for Free

(21:23):
and I felt that Free was holdinghis weight and holding his own
when he was rapping alongsideJay and Beans.
When him and Beans got together, Free was giving it, he was
giving it up On what we do, guys.
I think that he probably edgedboth of them out.
Jay had the bravado, Jay hadthe panache, but, man, the way
Free Jay was telling him keepgoing, Keep going.

(21:46):
He was going crazy on thatjoint man.
I'm still going with Jay, though.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
I'm still going with Jay, though.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
Nah, man Jay had the panache man.
He said you know, gotta killwitnesses for Free being
sticking out.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
I feel like that line shut it down, though.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
First of all, you know that Sean's not about to
give it to Jay, that's true.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
I just gave that to him.
That's a dope line.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
In fairness to Sean, he is right this time.
Thank, you no man Bulletsbreathed by you like Louisiana
made.
That is crazy.
Jay was good.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
That's on there bro, but that's Jay, that's Jay.
With the bravado, that's Jaywith the passion.
That, bro, but that's Jay.
That's Jay with the bravado,that's Jay with the that's who
Jay is.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
If my kids hungry, snatch your dishes out your
kitchen.
I'll be wild until they pick meout of line he was going crazy.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
I ain't talking about crazy.
I was up.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
Wild out, fuck Niggas up.
Not trying to visit the morgue.
The freeway, move out.
I'm sitting in the middleas up.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
I'm not trying to visit the morgue, the freeway
move out till I can sit in themorgue till I get my shit
together.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Clean up my sins freeway.
Get it in like 10 in themorning and I can give it to you
like 10 while you're yawning.
Man To deliver the order man.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Oh yeah, no, no, no, no, that's free.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Actually, this is what I'm about to say.
Actually, if you actually justwant to talk about a verse, it's
the best verse by a Philly rapartist not named Black Thought
or Beanie Siegel.
Actually, that's how dope thatverse is.
It's a moment Like it's better.
Like I know people play likeMeeks Dreams and Nightmares.
Free's verse on what we do isbetter it is.

(23:22):
It's like that.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
The record is like that and I'll tell it is.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
It's like that, the record is like that, and I'll
tell you what.
Here's another thing this albumis better than anything anybody
made on Rockefeller.
That wasn't a Jay-Z album,because Beanie Seagulls' the
Becoming didn't come out onRockefeller.
So as far as like yeah, it was,dame Dash, yeah it was.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Dame Dash's group.
That's a good point Kool.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
So as far as Rockefeller Project's concerned,
this is actually the bestRockefeller.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Project.
You're forgetting about Kanye,though.
You're forgetting about Kanyethough.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Okay, I don't kind of look at Kanye.
I look at Kanye as a Def Jamartist more than a Rockefeller
artist.
But I hear what you're saying.
I look at him as a Rockefellerproducer.
I look at him as a Def Jamartist, but I hear what you're
saying.
But I'm saying thisPhiladelphia Freeway album is
like that, that it's like to behonest with you, especially in
Sean.
You're right at the beginningof the album.
I don't know that's as good asthe beginning to the blueprint
and a lot of Jay's best stuffand a lot of Seagull's best

(24:17):
stuff.
It's like that.
So the record's pretty specialAll my life with Nate Dawgs my
shit.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
That joint is fire Before I get my thoughts.
Before I get my thoughts, whatare each of y'all's top five on
the album?
No Particular Order.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
I'm going to be honest with you.
The first five records areprobably my favorite five
records.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
First five records.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, free what.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
We Do All my.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Life Flipside yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
My top five.
I no particular order what wedo flip side, full effect, turn
out the lights.
Speaking of kaya, he did killthat beat um and uh, line them
up.
And full effect is a closesecond for me, because young
guns killed that track and uh,young guns was like really dope
at that time.
Here's one thing I'll say aboutwell, two things I'll say about

(25:07):
the album.
All Right is probably my leastfavorite song on the album.
I think they dropped the ballreleasing that as a single.
It should have been the jointwith Mariah.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
You don't like.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
All Right?
No, I don't.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
I think this album is solid end-to don't.
I mean, I think this album issolid in the end.
See, I would hold on this.
I think this album is actuallybetter than the Slim Shady LP
and the Black Star album.
I would give this album.
Yeah, I think it's better aswell.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
But don't you think they dropped the ball on that
with not releasing the Mariahrecord?

Speaker 1 (25:40):
I don't think they released the Mariah record
because I don't think it wouldhave moved really enough for
what his demographic looked likeand the people that were
gravitating towards him, and Idon't think he would have been
able to get Mariah.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
You think he would have been able to get Mariah,
but all Jay had to do was put ina call.
Whether he would have or not,that's a different story.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
First of all, not to be funny, but women sometimes
can be flaky and Mariah is adiva and Mariah will tell you
that she's a diva.
Mariah will look at you andshe'll be like you know I'm a
diva motherfucker.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
It's his freeway.
At this time he's at A-lister,right?
It's not J.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
If it's J, she might pull up for J.
You've got to think about thetime she might pull up for Jay.
She'll pull up.
You got to think about the timeShe'll pull up for Nelly, jay
Nas, ja Rule, maybe the rest ofthem, nah, dmx, that's it, but
my biggest takeaway- from thisalbum doesn't have nothing
itself to do with Freeway.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
In the 2020s, my top five producer list changed
because Hit Boy moved into mytop five favorite not
necessarily best, but in my topfive favorite producers ever
when he did the Nas, magic andKD runs and then everything else
he was doing.
You know with Benny and youknow Big Sean.

(26:59):
Whoever you know, he moved intomy top five.
Whoever you know, he moved intomy top five.
That spot before was occupied byJust Blaze, which I always
considered like more of an albumand placement producer, and the
reason why I had to knock himdown to the sixth spot was
because he didn't have thatclassic, as Coop says, in the

(27:19):
end player, where he was at thehelm of a full album Before the
Saigon album came out.
This is what we had as the mostevidence because you know you
had Jay blueprint and so on, butthat's just like a few tracks
here and there, like three orfour songs he produced.
Just Blaze produced 10 out ofthe 16 tracks on here.
Yes, so he was really theperson behind crafting this

(27:42):
album and making it what it was.
The other people that I have inmy top five they have albums
that they crafted that wereclassics from front to back,
Whether it be RZA, premiere, dre, kanye and Hit-Boy, you can
even go to Hit.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
There's nothing against Philadelphia Freeway.
I think at least three of thesix nas and hit boy projects are
better than philadelphiafreeway.
At least three, yeah, that'sright.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
At least three, probably four, maybe five yeah,
but I think this is just blazebest submission as far as doing
a bulk of a project, becausethis is all we had to go off of.
Prior to, I think he didmajority of bleak's made album,
which was a solid effort, andthen, of course, the Saigon
album.
He did all that.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
I feel like he's one of those guys.
He's not going to make my top10 list, but I could see.
But I could see, I mean just asgoing to be just for me as a
top 25 producer.
Just for me he's a top 25producer and if he's not top 25,
he's really really close to thetop 25.
And people need to understandis that hip-hop has grown.
People need to understandhip-hop has grown so much that
considering being a top 25producer is an honor Major.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
That's not objective placement.
That was just he's number sixon my favorite list for like.
If I want to hear somebody'sbeats, just Blaze is number six
on that list for me.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yes, I mean just people, I mean people from our
generation got to understandthat it's like not 1995.
And so that, like, the gauge isdifferent, it's like, oh no,
we're 30 years past that.
And so some of this stuffshould resonate different to you
when we make a top 25 list,because the volume of people
that have come in now, like thefact that somebody like a DJ

(29:32):
Premier, a Dr Dre and a RZA arestill holding so well, is very,
very remarkable.
You get what I'm saying.
You got to think about itOutside of really, because I
feel like Dilla kind of camesomewhere in the middle Outside
of Kanye.
If you were to make your all andmaybe hit, if you have hit in

(29:53):
your top 10, there hasn't beenan all-time great rap producer
that's actually come out in the2000s.
If you're talking like top 10all time unless you think metro
is top 10 or unless you thinkhit is top 10 because kanye and
dilla are before 2000 in termsof beats you get what I'm saying

(30:16):
, and even if you tried to uhput pharrell in there, that's
just prior to 2k super no superthugs.
98.
Super.
Thug is 98.
It's two years before 2000.
Same thing with Timbaland, yeahyeah.
So when you're talking abouthow some of this stuff is
holding, that's what I mean.
I'm holding some of this stuffhigh.

(30:37):
Well, how about this Preem andRZA and Dre?
They haven't had a Steph, le,lebron or KD come along like
Mike and Magic and Bird have.
Like they haven't had guys comealong that have actually been
comparable.
If you really want to know thetruth, that's what's been
different about hip-hop, is thatlike, well, this crop of guys

(30:57):
haven't even made itconversational.
At least LeBron, kd and Stephhave made it conversational.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
And let's be real, we're in an era where people
don't care about the producerthat much anymore, because in
our era we was ripping thepackage and off the CD like
Jay-Z said on Volume 3 andrushing to look at the credits
at who did what.
In the streaming era, reallynobody cares about who produced
what song.
If we're being honest.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
I think you know what hip hip hop is really missing.
I mean, we don't want tosidebar too far, we got to get
back to it.
Hip hop is really missing.
It's impactful moments now andwe have to learn how to create
those impactful moments in thisgenre.
I think because, in list ofwhat I'm saying when I say this
like, no, like the punk rockbands of the 80s and the Big

(31:47):
Hair that was an impactful thing.
Nirvana and the Grunge that wasan impactful thing, but rock
and roll had been going on for50 years you feel what I'm
saying.
We need to have a way to havethose impactful moments.
That's actually what we'remissing at this stage in the
game.
We're not missing the talent.
I still feel like the talent isthere.
We're missing the impactfulmoments.
The game's not as impactful asit used to be.

(32:08):
Like I can remember reading theexcerpt from Jay's book when he
was talking about you knowhearing who shot you for the
first time.

Speaker 2 (32:18):

Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, and how hearing who shot you made Jay feel like
as a rapper.
You know what I'm saying.
It's like, no, we're missingthat and that's where and we're
kind of going to get into thiswhen we go into our mob deep and
outcast thing.
Some of these records are justmeant to are impactful because

(32:40):
they inspire, not because theywere necessarily big hits, it's
not because they were big bighits, it's not because they were
big hits.
They were so inspirational, somotivational, like like where
did the shook ones part two evenmake it number one on the rap
charts?
Like like, damn, overall chart,the shook ones part two even
make it number one on the rapcharts.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
No, that's why putting that in the hip-hop
argument is tricky, because someof the greatest classics of all
time are not commercialsuccesses yeah, like think about
that.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
It's like, well, I mean shit.
For some people that's a top 20rap song.
Right, it didn't even make thetop of the rap charts when it
came out, but the impact of itthe impact of prodigy's verse,
the impact of the beat, theimpact of the hook, the impact
of the representation of eastcoast hardcore hip-hop, like the
representation of all thosethings, impact the game.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
It permeated through our whole culture.
It just didn't break throughbeyond that.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
I think it did, because I think the modern-day
East Coast hip-hop that welisten to is mostly Mobb Deep
inspired.
Am I wrong?

Speaker 2 (33:43):
No, that would be accurate.
I mean, Griselda is heavilyinspired.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
We're going to talk about this.
We might think that Wu-Tang isthe greatest group ever, but
they're also the hardest groupto emulate.
Ever so more people haveactually taken up the emulating
mob style and sound.
Because, well, it's more rootedin one style, because, well,
it's just mostly built aroundit's not as abstract.

(34:08):
It's built around prodigy asopposed to being built around 9
to fucking 20 guys.
Right, new music guys J Cole,clouds, clouds, sean, clouds,
yeah, yeah, sean, you want tostart off with Exploitic.

(34:29):
Actually, ag Gohan, never mind.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
I had Sean start off on a J Cole topic.
That was a mistake.
We should push that to theFreddie joint.
That's a Lucy.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
I think that's a better connection.
You want to push it back.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah to the Discord Dialogue segment.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
We'll push that back.
Do y'all want to talk about theRansom and Davies project Final
thoughts?
Yeah, let's do that.
Yeah, let's do that.
Early thoughts about theproject AG run it.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
I actually really like the project.
But here's the thing I wasreally nervous.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Watch mirror music in the background while I stuff.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Like Watch mirror music in the background.
Like Kendrick said, turn the TVoff.
Coop.
The album.
I was nervous about it, right,because both MCs are very
monotone, you know, and I wasinitially thinking that the
album was going to come offboring, and I was, I was
initially thinking that thealbum was going to come off
boring.

(35:26):
But I think both MCs are betterserved with another MC.
So they have somebody to, youknow, contrast their own voice,
even though, even though both ofthem are kind of monotone in
their delivery, it's stillsomewhat of a contrast.
Like if you go back and look atDavey's Beloved styles, that
contrast helps davis.
If you go back and look at uh,chaos is my ladder with ransom

(35:48):
and conway, and then coupe degras with um, rome streets and
ransom, those things help ransomversus listening to ransom for
a whole project or listen todavis for a whole project.
So these two together, althoughsimilar and monotone voice, I
think the contrast works well.
I liked a lot of the productionon here.
The features was dope.

(36:09):
You know I'm saying I have methon here Jay Electronica.
Overall, I thought it was asolid project.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
I agree.
I agree.
I like Audubon kicking off theconcept of Audubon.
It's bittersweet.
It's kind of bittersweet,though, because the story right,
you're living through the lensof Malcolm X and what happened,
the tragedy of that situation,and I felt like that was Dave
East, probably one of his betterrecords, better songs on his

(36:39):
joint, his better verses.
I feel like Ransom came to play.
He's well-read, he knows whathe's doing.
Ransom not playing on here, notplaying on it at all.
I think Dave East tried to keepup.
That's what Dave East said.
I don't think he was able tokeep up because Ransom was in

(37:04):
such a pocket as if he wastrying to prove something, and
he proved it because on everytrack he was just in a certain
pocket man.
You can tell.
The confidence was there.
He's well read, he knows what'sgoing on, he knows his
scriptures.
You know he was and it waseffortlessly, whereas I feel
like Dave East was kind ofmuscling his way through it, if
that makes sense, like he'smuscling his way through it, if

(37:24):
that makes sense, like he'smuscling his rhymes through it,
right.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
You said the scriptures, sean.
Can you talk about that?
The heavy five percenter themethroughout the album?

Speaker 3 (37:35):
That he was doing it effortlessly.
He was doing it Like you thinkabout the way Dave East was
trying to pull it off.
You didn't know what he wasdoing.
But Ransom, you can tell thathe's well-read, he knows what
he's talking about.
You be getting Jay Electronicaon there.
Jay Electronica sounded alittle bit out of place with it,
like he was again Jay goingoverboard, and it made me ask

(37:58):
myself the question do you lookat Jay Electronica or Killer
Priest?
Which one is a higher caliber?
Look at Jay Electronica orKiller Priest?
Which one is a higher caliber?
And I'll probably give it toKiller Priest, don't do that.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Don't make me do that , man.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
Cool you rocking with me, Killer Priest.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
I love Killer Priest man, but Jay Electronica, Jay
Elect, bro, I don't know bro.
Okay, that's a dopeconversation though.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
It's one of the more fascinating questions that I've
been posed with in the past year.
I will tell you that.
But here's what I'm going tosubmit to you.
On Mirror Music, I talked aboutDe La Soul and how De La Soul
does a lot of the same thingshis tribe does, but they're not
as entertaining as tribe.

(38:46):
And that's what I would tellyou about Killer Priest and Jay
Electronica.
Jay Electronica make that shitsound more wavy than Killer
Priest do, even if Killer Priestis more fundamentally sound at
it, very much like De La andTribe.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
And so.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
I would still tell you that it's elect because of
that, because the box office andthe star power like matters,
because it elevates it.
It separates, like the voice inthe star power and the impact
is really what separates that,that gifted and talented group.
No matter how they're parsedout or whether you're gifted or
whether you're talented, whenyou do those few things well,

(39:22):
you become iconic.
Yeah, and I love Killer Priest,but he don't have an exhibit
seat, whether you're gifted orwhether you're talented.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
When you do those few things, you become iconic.
Yeah, and I love Killer Priest,but he don't have an exhibit
seat.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
I don't think he need it, or an exhibit A.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
But he doesn't have some of the cachet and feng shui
that you know what I'm saying,that Alec has.
He don't got it True, and he'snot trying to have it and he's
not trying to have it Because hecan pull it off.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
He can pull it off.
We've seen it.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
I like this sidebar.
This is random as hell, but Ilike it.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
It's a great sidebar, Andrew.
If you're watching, chop thisshit up.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
I couldn't do that.
Okay, if we're doing thissidebar thing as far as the 5%er
theme throughout the album.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
I would like to get to my actual review of the album
after the sidebar.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Oh, my bad.
I just want to ask both ofy'all a question.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
No, no, no.
Finish the sidebar.
It's a good sidebar.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
For a 5%er theme collab album.
Y'all got this or a writtentestimony, with J and JLA
Speaking of JLA this.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
Cool, more digestible .

Speaker 1 (40:24):
I need to hear this more because I really actually
enjoyed a written testimony.
And I'm probably, and I'mprobably and I'm probably
partial to a written testimonybecause me doing an article
review about written testimonyis because how I ended up in
this space, so I'm probably alittle bit subconsciously
partial to that album.
That's right.
So that's actually an albumit's not fair to ask me about.

(40:44):
My whole podcasting career ispretty much based on something
that I wrote about that album.
That's right.
That's actually an album that'snot fair to ask me about.
My whole podcasting career ispretty much based on something
that I wrote about that album.
I'm probably not the fairassessment to ask I am partial
to that album which anniversaryis about to celebrate a
five-year anniversary.
I know because I wrote thereview that got me podcasting
about it almost five years ago.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
That's right.
I'm taking a written testimonythough.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
My early thoughts are a written testimony, but that's
why I'm telling you I'm biasedand I'd like to listen to the
Ransom Project more.
But that brings me to theRansom and Dave East Project.
That was actually a Freudianslip, Sean.
Here's where I agree with you.
This feels like Ransom'sproject more than Dave's East
Project.
He grabbed this project and hedid what he wanted with it.
I don't think I've ever heardhim flex on a project like this

(41:28):
before.
Vocally and flow-wise I'm withyou.
Audubon Ballroom is probablyDave East's shining moment on
here.
I feel like it's the first rapsong I heard this year that has
two verse-of-the-year contenderson it and I still think it's
probably the best song on thisproject.
And if you start off your albumwith the best song on your

(41:49):
project and you're trying to getpeople to pay attention to your
project, that's what you'resupposed to do.
So job well done, not only onthem executing on the song, but
also giving them thisappropriate placement at the top
.
Like to give people the buy-in.
Not only that, the songselection and when I mean song
selection I mean the actualnames of the songs being

(42:09):
selected as in to try to tietogether a theme after Autobahn
Ballroom.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
Yes, right.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
No, I'm going to give you points for that.
Those are stylistic andconceptual points that we used
to give artists from our erathat they're executing, because
they actually, for the most partnow, they did not fit into the
theme all the way well, a la areasonable doubt or a cuban
links, but they did fit into thetheme enough and the song

(42:36):
titles were dope enough and theproduction reflected the song
titles.
If you noticed enough, then I'mgoing to give them some bonus
points for that.
That means they thought aboutthis, guys, and them thinking
about it made me think that partof the reason why these albums
that we hear today don't getall-time classic status is

(42:56):
because they don't take all-timetime to actually put the whole
song together.
I mean, we're doing and I'mgoing to tell you where that
comes from we just got, we'reabout to do this Outkast, mobb
Deep thing.
So you know, I've beenlistening to Outkast and Mobb
Deep for like the last threedays straight.
Right, these songs are so fulland so finished, guys.
I was listening to NighttimeVultures today and it's like no

(43:20):
Havoc's on there doing littlestuff in the background with the
ad-libs, prodigy's ad-libbingand freestyling at the end of
the record the beat's doingcertain stuff.
The vultures are actuallymaking the bird chirping noise.
At the beginning of the song,before the beat dropped, they
put the whole record together,guys, the whole record.
They didn't just hear a dopebeat and then come up with a

(43:42):
concept of rap over a dope beat.
They did all of that and thenthey put the record together.
It's like no, no, no, we don'tneed to just drop the beat.
The song called NighttimeVultures.
It's got to sound like vulturesis actually circling around in
the background before the beatdrop you know, it's the
intricacies of it.
I'm listening to Equimina today,guys, and I'm like man.

(44:03):
They literally put every songtogether intricately, from
beginning to end.
Everything's intentional aboutthe album and I can only say
that the only reason that it'shappening.
People think that it's thetalent.
I think it's the time, becausewhen I listen to Ransom and Dave
East on this project becauseRansom's great throughout this

(44:24):
project Dave East gotprogressively great.
Throughout this project.
Dave East got progressivelybetter throughout this project
Because he needed time to catchhis wind, because this project
was actually pretty well thoughtout and probably thought out by
Ransom, and he probably wantedDave East riding shotgun on it
to help bring it some morecohesion and give it the concept
a little bit of a differentsound.
Probably what Ray was thinkingwhen he was making the purple

(44:49):
tape.
And he's like no, no, I couldprobably use coast to give it
like a little bit, I could use alittle oomph.
You know what I'm saying and soI see it.
Uh, mayhem of the mayhem record.
Oh, ransom zoned out on there,guys, like that's one of his
better moments as an mc.
I was like that's ransomrapping, like that's one of his
better moments as an MC.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
I was like that's Ransom rapping, like that yeah,
he was in a pocket, he was inall the pockets Soul Food and
Mecca yeah, and don't forgetabout Meth okay, so guys, the
Meth verse.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
The Meth verse don't by any means is the verse of the
year right now blazing features.
I'm gonna go ahead and say itagain.
Andrew, you, the new cutcreator man, alright, cause you
about to have to chop this uptoo.
The meth verse on, by any meansnecessary.
That's the verse of the yearright now, guys the verse of the
year.
It's not a verse it's the verseof the year right now.

(45:43):
That's the best rap verse Iheard this year.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
You got to rap it like you trying to verse of the
year?
It's not a verse.
It's the verse of the yearright now.
That's the best rap verse Iheard this year.
That's rapping like he's tryingto get a deal.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
You got a better verse.
He rapping like Def Jam nevergave him a deal, right.
He rapping like he's not partof Wu-Tang Clan guys.
You understand that.
It's like I need to get in acrew.
It's like he's rapping like heneeds to get in a crew.
He's the front man for thegreatest rap group of all time
and he's rapping like he needsto get in a crew.
It's the verse of the year, Bigtime.

(46:11):
What?

Speaker 2 (46:12):
I want to speak to real quick that both of you said
.
I'm not mad at Dave East forhaving to ride shotgun on this
album.
The Ransom Ransom was killingit.
If you remember, I said acouple episodes ago when we was
talking about collab albums andhow they function the best.
One person has to take thereins, and you know that's kind
of what this is.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Ransom, it's Ransom and it's wonderful and people
think that it sounds better thanthe Ransom and the Kanye and
the Conway.
That's because it does, it,does, it, does, it does by the
first five records.
It's like the first fiverecords are better than the
Ransom and the Conway project.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
But this pairing, the contrast, you know it.
Like I said, I would ratherhear this project than any of
their solo projects Dave East orRansom, you know because that
contrast, like, gives it alittle bit more of a different
flow for the album.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
I'll tell you what I thought about this project in
the end.
First of all, I thought thisproject started off really
strong and tailed off a littlebit at the end.
Some of the beats and thethemes got a little repetitive
to me at the end, although Istill felt like the songs were
solid throughout.
But I'm going to give thisalbum a four guys.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
I'm going to have a lot of replay value, a lot of
staying power Ooh.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
I'm going to tell you what.
That depends on what they dowith a couple records.
First of all, mayhem and theAl-Kabir Beach Depends on what
they do with those two records,because those two records need
visual aids and the fact thatthey actually got a meth joint.
They should probably do thattoo.
But the Mayhem and the Al-K,the Alcabir beach are must, are

(47:47):
must haves.
And that's some of Ransom'sfinest moments at MCN because we
all know Ransom has the bars.
He executed style points andswag points and delivery and
inflection.
Ransom was pausing and takinghis time and catching the beat
guys instead of weaving in andout.
He never does that Like I'mgoing to tell you somebody that

(48:08):
used to weave in and out, thatlearned to pause and then they
switched their whole flow up andthey're an all-time great MC
conversation, common.
Common used to rap nonstop andthen Common started finding his
pace and his space on the beatand then something happened
between one day it'll all makesense and like water for
chocolate, and he found hispocket and he found his timing

(48:29):
and he's been pretty muchbrilliant as an MC timing wise
ever since.
And I felt like ransom found acouple of pockets on this album.
It's like oh shit, that's oneof those things where you can
hear a guy that's been doing thework.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
That's what I was saying Exactly.
But I been doing the work.
That's what I was sayingexactly about.
I am God on this currentproject.
We know.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
I've been doing the work Look here we know.
I've been doing the work.
Look here, since I've beenit'll be five years and I've
been doing pods and shit.
Next like literally in abouttwo and a half weeks Since I've
been doing this, there are threepeople that I did not know
about before I started doingthis.
That I've known about and Ithink that they're all great.
That's Stove, who we've talkedabout.

(49:07):
I Am God, who you just boughtup, and Armin, who's plugged the
Scott storage.
Since I've been doing this forfive years, those are the three
people that I didn't know about.
That I know about now and I'm soglad I know about all three of
them.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
But Stove is the only one that ain't dropped a couple
of projects.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Gotta get Stove on man.
We gotta get Stove in thestudio I want.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
Wes.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Hatton Stove to hear this shit.
Right now up in here, right now, lt, go and tell him shout out
to LT.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
LT man that's right.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Everybody getting put on blast this year, nobody safe
.
I want my solo album.
I'm playing with you, niggas.
No more, no, for real.
We've been waiting five yearsfor a four album for real, like
here's how they need to look atit.
Do you think Havoc and P wouldmake us wait five years for an
album?

Speaker 3 (50:00):
not at all not at all .

Speaker 1 (50:04):
do you think they'd make us wait this long for them?
Do you think Benny Segal wouldmake us wait this long for an
album?
Like you know prison and youknow vocal issues, you know what
I'm saying.
You think the Lox is a groupLike think about this.
We never went no five-year gapwithout like really hearing like
a Lox project, like some sortof mixtape, some sort of joint,
some sort of shoot-off, somesort of camp.

(50:25):
It's the record label.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
It's the record label .
Some of that is false.
We got super chat man, fuckthese labels.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
I see that super chat .
That's Mad Max.
Sean, that's Mad Max.
That's not a real super chat.
I know you're not in heretelling me Jay Electronica, I'm
coming through your thermometer.
Shaolin Bada big bong betterthan killer priest Yo man, this
dude is a See I told you it'snot a real Super Chat.
I told you it's not a real SuperChat, it's just Mad Max.

(50:57):
Let's finish the Super Chat.
I said this on Haters BallHaters Ball.
Lets you on Haters Ball.
Y'all stop that.
On Haters Ball.
Haters Ball lets you on HatersBall.
Y'all stop that.
Haters Ball are three brotherson YouTube.
Y'all should subscribe toHaters Ball.
I love Haters Ball.
Haters Ball are some of theoriginal followers.
Jaylec, a koofy wearing meek,reuses the same bars.

(51:17):
He's a koofy wearing meek.
You see what happened when youlet Mad Max in the chat.
Mad Max is wild man, you let MadMax in the chat.
Mad Max is wild man.
Mad Max, you must have got donewatching that whack-ass show.
Max, you got done with thewhack show and you came over
here, came over here to get somereal hip-hop.
You're like, damn, you're like.
I just got done watching thatbullshit for a couple of hours.
No, this is what happened withMad Max tonight.

(51:42):
Mad Max is like to the real.
Stop getting that watered-downproduct.
Take it from somebody that'sbeen to Columbia.
The product's been stepped on.
The product's been stepped on.
Some of these niggas' product'sbeen stepped on okay, let's
move forward, man.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Let's talk about Infinity man.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
Stop stepping with these stepped-on niggas.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Okay, They've been stepped on.
You can't sell that.
You can't sell that.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Okay, on to the next album.
Four is for Ransom and Davies.
Good project, smith and WessonInfinity.
Yes, you're from New York.
I mean y'all go first.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
You didn't like this.
I don't know.
This album is tough man.
It's a solid album.
Cool.
I love the features on thisalbum more than anything else.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
Okay, I would say it again what is this album without
the features?

Speaker 3 (52:45):
No, I love the features on the album.
I think they compliment Smithand Wesson very well.
They even give your boys ashout out.
They said they were there whenOutKast was named the best duo
in 95.
They talked about that.
I heard that and maybe I wantto ask you all that question Are

(53:08):
they in your top?

Speaker 2 (53:08):
25 or top 50 or anything for duos.
I mean, there ain't even thatmany, I would say, so they would
have to be in the top 25 bydefault.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
You think so, top 25 by default.
I don't think there's like 50duo groups out there.
Oh, you said duo or just groups.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
Duos.
I thought he said duos.
I said duos, let's go duos,let's go duos.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Top 25 as far as duos .
Yeah, they're probably going tomake your top 25 duos.
They're not going to make yourtop 25 groups.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
How about top 10?
Duo.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
UGK 8Ball and MJG Outkast Mobb Deep EP, rock and
CL.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
P Rock, cl.
Smooth Coogee Rap.
Bj Polo, eric B Rock.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
There's no way CNN.
Yeah, there's no way.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Who Migos?
I mean not Migos, it's three ofthem Field Mob.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Field.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
Mob.
I put them above Field Mob nono, no, they're above Field Mob.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
Nice and smooth kid and play showbiz and AG.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
They're not above showbiz and AG.
To me, no, no, yeah, althoughthe Shining is better than to me
, no, yeah, although the Shiningis better than.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
MOP God, how are we going to forget MOP?

Speaker 1 (54:30):
That's crazy MOP is better, yo, that's wild.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
I just played, I've been going that long without
saying MOP.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
I just played Fire and Squat about three months ago
too, DOS FX.
They're better than Daz effectsto me.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
Longevity.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
What I will say is I rock with this album better than
the Davies and the Ransom.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
If you're looking for a true boom bap.
I was feeling this album alittle more.
This is it.
This is it.
It's a true boom bap.
I was feeling this album alittle more.
This is it.
It's a true boom bap album.
Honestly.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
That Medina with Pharaoh March Tough the joint
with that black Eminence with P.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
How about this Organized Confusion?
Are they better than OrganizedConfusion To keep it in the era
Neck and neck.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
I think so.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Oh, that Moses promise yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
No, okay, so the album is dope, but the album's
only going to be dope to us.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
Right, it's not going to do anything, it's not going
to have legs.
We may not talk about it.
That's what I'm saying.
There we go, sean.
It's not that I don't like thealbum, it's not going to have
legs.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
We may not talk about theproduction.
Okay, there we go, sean.
It's not that I don't like thealbum, it's.
When I listen to the album,it's like I don't see the legs.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
I don't hear the legs .

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
But I rock with the production more than on the Dave
East and Ransom project.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
I think the production better Is the
production, the type ofproduction you prefer to hear.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
Yeah, it's the production you prefer to hear
but also the production thatthey need it.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
How about this?
It's easier to fit a productionfor a group that is together
and has been together the waythat they've been together than
it is to do for Dave East,that's what I mean.
If you're telling me theprojects are comparable, it's
like well, the new shit washarder to pull off, is what I'm
saying.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
You have to tip your hat to them.
Yeah, absolutely, it was harderfor.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Ransom and Dave East to make a project of that
caliber at the drop of a dimetogether than it is for Tech and
Steel.
Fair enough.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
And we left out Coop's favorite duo, Blackstar.
We left them out too.
Okay, they don't count.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
It should be like a three album buy-in to the duo.
Shit, how about that?

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Right they won short.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Both of y'all got quiet Wild, wild, wild y'all got
quiet wild wild how you gotquiet.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
Sean's not even looking at me like I'm not going
to acknowledge that Sean's likeI gotta go to New York.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
I'm not going to acknowledge that at all.
Matt Max with the 199 superchat.
I'm watching both because I cando what I want.
I'm a lion yeah, you're a lion.
Them niggas be lying.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
Y'all deserve each other no no, no, he's a lion.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Them niggas be lying and they suck.
Keep watching.
Ain't nobody stopping you fromwatching.
Yo, I'm a lion.
I'm a lion when you get done,when you get done, when you get
done, when you get done, whenyou get done watching it.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
That's why I just got through watching Game of
Thrones.
It's a.
We call ourselves a lion it'scrazy.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
Who says that look here, look here, look here.
And he probably did this.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
When he said lion, he probably did this not the hand,
not the whole hand, not thehand, not with the claw.
Oh shit, look here, mad Max,mad Max, mad Max, nobody's mad
at you, man.
When you get done watching theGolden Girls, sometimes you
gotta cut the wire on.
Sometimes you need to comefucking.
Sometimes you need to fuck withAvon and fucking Barney.

(58:22):

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Sometimes, you need to come fuck with Avon and.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
Stringer, after you get done fucking with Dorothy
and fucking Blanche.
I understand what.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
I don't know what is on your TV in the background,
bro.
My shit's wild, what the hellis this?

Speaker 1 (58:41):
I just saw Diggins on a wave man it's Andrew, it's me
, or music man.
We got a whole channel manBuilding a whole network.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
We gonna do this matchup or what.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
I'm gonna run these views up one step at a time.
All right, this is a businessmodel.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
It's ridiculous.
Let's get the Wu-Tang finaltour.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
Yeah, forgot about that.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
Hold on Mad Max real quick.
He wanted to justify histhought.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Oh my God, sean.
I mean I walked through Simbablock like Avon, stringer and
Wee Bay and had Simba lookingfor Mufasa for backup.
See Mad Max been drinking.
See Mad Max been drinking.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
I don't even understand, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
No, no, those are ghost-faced bars.
These are ghost-faced superchats.
Okay, these are SupremeClientele super chats.
Jordan jumped up like ClydeDrexler these are.
Supreme Clientele.
These are Supreme.
Clientele super chats, mad Max,all right.
So Wu-Tang Clan is about to goon their final tour with Run the
Jewels as the opening act.
Guys, we're going when we going, how we going, when we going.

(59:48):
Are you excited, are youdisappointed?
When they said this was theirfinal tour, it made me very sad.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
Very sad, very sad, very sad.
This one is hers.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
But, imagine how hard it is to get all of them
together to commit to thatbecause, if you remember the
last tour with Nas, the New YorkState of Mind tour, method man
had the obligations for hisactive role in Power Book 2 or
whatever, so he couldn't hit allthe tour dates.
So it's like I understand.

(01:00:25):
So it's like I understand it.
It's disappointing, but Iunderstand it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
I think, realistically.
You know, hold on, you have tolook at this realistically.
We've been doing this show.
There are three of us.
We've been doing this showtogether for about what nine
months now.
We've been in the same roomtogether one time for one day,

(01:00:54):
and most of these guys are aboutseven to twelve years older
than us, some a little bit older.
Think about how hard it is toget us in a room and think about
now, multiply who we are bythree or four, and then multiply
the notoriety and the lifestyleand the obligations, and then
understand how truly hard it is.

(01:01:16):
This is what.
Okay, so what was always sobrilliant about them is that
everybody, from the jump whenthey first walked in the door,
asked how the fuck are theyabout to make this work?
There's too many of them, yeah,and so they have made it work.
For what is 2020?
They have made it work for 32years, guys.

(01:01:37):
It is probably the greatestfeat in hip-hop history that
isn't talked about, the factthat these guys are still
talking to each other.
Yeah, do you understand whatI'm saying.
So people need to understand thegravity of this.
It's like the fact that Methodman had prior obligations and
still found a way to wigglearound the obligations to show

(01:01:59):
up for three or four tour dates.
No, that's different.
People don't understand howhard it is to ride shotgun with
somebody for three, four, five,six, seven years.
Think about Go listen to CLSmooth talk about him and Pete
Rock.
Go listen to Eric and Parrishtalk about each other.
Havoc and Pete broke up rightin front of us and we didn't

(01:02:21):
even know and never saidanything.
These are duos that I'm talkingabout.
That couldn't get along.
Bobby Brown as soon as somebodytold Bobby Brown was a star,
he's like leaving these fuckniggas Shout out to EPMD.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
We left them off our list too.
Man, I can't believe that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
No, no, I brought up EPMD.
I said EPMD, oh, you kept agroup of about 10 to 15 niggas
together for 30 years.
It's almost hard for us to keepduos together for five years.
That's the real measuring stick.
The fact that they have thegreatest catalog, like the fact
that what seven or eight of the50 best rap albums come out of

(01:03:04):
this camp, is ancillary to thefact that the actual camp is
still touring together 32 yearslater.
It's amazing these niggas ain'tshot each other, stabbed each
other, whooped each other's ass.
I'm not joking, I'm beingserious.
These shit be going on on tour.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
They family for real.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
You know what I mean, that's what.
I'm saying so.
It's like so I want to go,because I want to celebrate,
because we're never going to seethis again, like they are the
one thing in hip hop that I knowwe're never going to see again.
It's like no Nas popping upshowed us that.
No, you can get you anotherRakim, you can get you another

(01:03:45):
KRS-One, you can get you anothercool G-Rap.
You might not get another Tupac, but you definitely not getting
another Wu-Tang Clan.
It'll never happen again.
It'll never happen again.
A band of brothers won't cometogether like this and care
about the hip-hop and the loveof each other over the money

(01:04:06):
first.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
Long enough to make it happen.
More or less, a group with nineto ten members Think about it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
You know how much you got to care about the craft and
care about each other.
For a guy that's living in yourhood to tell you.
So check this out.
We're going to do this groupalbum but I'm going to get
everybody a solo deal andeverybody going to be rich.
Look at him Like, tell thisnigga, stop lying.

(01:04:35):
Think about RZA's playing andhow that sounds to somebody like
in 1991.
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna puttogether a team of guys hope to
get the best MC's from my hoodand I'm gonna put together a
group album and then after thatI'm gonna make sure everybody
has a solo album so everybodycan eat that shit.
That had never happened beforein rap cause.

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
He's a genius innovative, not represented well
enough, no happened before inrap, because he's a genius,
innovative, not represented wellenough, not well enough.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
No, changed the whole landscape of music and hip-hop
To everything.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Now it's unprecedented.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Unprecedented, unprecedented.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
Wu-Tang forever.
I don't care if they don't tour, it's Wu-Tang forever.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Let's really framework this right, since
we're here unprecedented Wu-TangForever.
I don't care if they don't tour, it's Wu-Tang Forever, wu-tang
Forever.
Let's really framework thisright, since we're here, if
we're talking about the impactand what it really did for the
culture how groups was able tocome into the game and sign a
record deal and then get solodeals to the labels of their
choice, this is about asgroundbreaking as, like jordan

(01:05:39):
wearing the, you know, gettingthe signature shoe with nike,
and then ball players, afterjordan, now can get their deals.
You know, I'm saying to havetheir own shoe because before
that, you know, the converseall-star, the converse weapons,
was just, um, you know the, theteam colors, the Lakers and the
Celtics Nobody had thissignature shoe until Jordan came

(01:05:59):
along and got that.
So it really changed thelandscape of that, just like
Jordan did for athletes to beable to have their signature
shoe, but nobody talks aboutWu-Tang doing that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
Nobody talks about it because it was so seamless.
Think about this Rappers comingfrom groups didn't have solo
deals until Method man got adeal with Def Jam.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
When.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
Method man got a deal with Def Jam.
Like Method man signed to DefJam.
That didn't happen.
That didn't happen.
You didn't rap with a crew andthen a year later have a solo
record deal.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Unless, you left the group.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
Yeah, think about it.
A rapper never had that before.
No rapper left a group and gotsome sort of solo rap.
Deal with the major label thatgot notarized that had never
happened before.
Method man's the first guy ofhis kind, because buster was
after that correct no leaders ofthe new school broke up yeah,
yeah, that's what I said unlessyou left the group.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
You know I'm saying then you got according.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
I mean, you know man people well, you know everybody
keeps talking like he left thegroup.
But I've heard people say well,he got kicked out of the group
I've heard both stories and andjudging from the behavior, got
kicked out of the group and sogot a solo deal and has

(01:07:23):
literally talked about andaccepted speeches how, like no
was a guest artist.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
Well, they broke up live on UNTV Raps or something
crazy like that.
It was like live in real time.

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
That was nasty.
Yeah, that was nasty and shoutout to 007 with the super chat,
these queens get the money.
Wu-tang MSG 716, 25, comethrough.
Might be the one fellas.
The Garden going to be crazy,the Garden going to be crazy.
That might be the one, I'm notgoing front, going for the
Garden.
Can I just say one Nah MadisonSquare Garden legend.

(01:07:57):
This sounds to tell guy whosaid that man anybody worried
about Ron?
I'm not going to deal with it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
Appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Thank you what you got to say, Sean, about that
Risen clip.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Oh, we going to Madison Square Garden, we going
to the garden that might be theone that's the one I just ain't
getting on.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
No plane, no time soon.
I'm just falling off the skywhich is different garden.

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
I mean we need to make a decision soon, tickets on
sale and like, yeah, we'll plan.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
I don't like sitting in bad seats.
I mean we need to make adecision soon, tickets on sale
and like, yeah, we'll planbehind the scenes.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
I don't like sitting in bad seats.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
Oh, you can still get any seat you want, it's just
what you're willing to pay.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
No, I imagine Wu-Tang and Madison Square Garden guys,
that is going to sell, that'sgoing to sell, that's going to
sell.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
It'll be joint See when the MSG date is 7-16.
June 17th July.
July.
July 17th, gotcha 16.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
All right, july 17th, gotcha 16th.
Alright, let me, let me goahead, and let me go ahead and
put you and Sean in the body bagbefore we get out of here today
, before we go to the verses.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
I wanted Sean to talk about the that clip that leaked
out.
It didn't leak, but Art ofDialogue posted it with RZA what
he had to talk about the uh,that clip that leaked out.
Um, it didn't leak, but the artof dialogue posted it with RZA
what he had to say about thatband of the 10 year band of the
Wu Tang, how it affected thetrajectory of music.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
What are you talking about?
The radio shit yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Well, you know, I'd like to get your thoughts on
this too, coop.
You know cause like to get yourthoughts on this too, coop.
You know, because they had a10-year ban on Hot 97 and
basically what RZA was saying,alluding to that really hurt New
York hip-hop because you're notplaying woo in the peak of
their powers, and so that gaveroom for a lot of the Southern
acts to break through New Yorkat the time.
So the sister radio stations orthe competitor radio stations,

(01:10:16):
they were following suit, thehot 97 playing the down South
acts because they wasn't playingtheir own, and that's how the
South got to break through andreally take the crown in that
moment.
Because you know, hot 97 wasn'tchampion, one of their own, you
know, biggest and brightestacts.
So he's kind of credited inthat band for the permeation of

(01:10:39):
the South to really take overhip hop at that time.
Some people have been sayingonline that he's hating, but I
can see where he's coming from.
Because if you look at thattime, you know when Wu-Tang was
on top, like who was reallydominant in New York after that,
like you know, cause, the bandwas 10 years.
So if you go in the latter partof those years you got Jay, you

(01:11:01):
got Nas, you got X, you got JaRule and then 50 came through.
But after 50, it was nothingreally outside of Dipset that
was really bubbling in New Yorklike that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
I think this is a great conversation to have,
because you have an ATLian and aNew Yorker.
So who will go first, atl orNew York?
Go ahead, coop.

Speaker 3 (01:11:22):
You got it, hey, gentlemen.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
Okay.
So I don't know if hating isthe right word, gentlemen, but
when people down here in theSouth feel disrespected, if
there is some truth to what RZAis saying and I do feel there is
some truth to it and I'm goingto speak to it what you are

(01:11:49):
doing also, when you are makinga statement like that, is you
are being submissive to thequality of music that is being
made down here at the time.
Okay, I'm not joking.
If you take Wu-Tang out of theequation in the mid-90s in

(01:12:12):
hip-hop East Coast hip-hop, loreyou're left with Big Nas, deep
and Mob for the most part andthat's not a slouch thing.
In Jay, of course, jay's comingalong, and so you're not left
with the cover being bare.
But, guys, we're down here.
We got Starface, we got GoodyMob, we got Outkast, we got 3-6

(01:12:36):
Mafia, we got UGast, we got 3-6Mafia, we got UGK, we got 8-Ball
and MJG.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
That was a prime time when no limit in cash money was
breaking through.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
No limit in cash money on the precipice of coming
through, I'm saying let's keepit, woo peak, let's keep it.
95, 96, let's keep it.
The band didn't happen until 97.
So no, no, no, look, but I'mtalking about the music in terms
of like, because most of theirclassic stuff that he's talking
about that didn't get played.
It's like well, the problemisn't the stuff up until that

(01:13:13):
point, the the problem is is isthat what 97 did is is that they
cut their most classic groupswater off at the time where the
South was making its bestSouthern classics.
And so what they really did isthey offered an opportunity for
New Yorkers to hear classicSouthern rap.

(01:13:33):
See, the stuff that you'rehearing now isn't as good as the
stuff that they were hearingthen but right around the time
they're banning Wu-Tang.
Well, you gotta think about that.
They're banning Wu-Tang in 97.
Atl is 96.
Quimina is 98, guys.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
But you don't smite your own to get exposure to what
I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
Listen to what I'm saying.
Part of why it happened isbecause the South had quality
enough records to fill the gap.
They didn't have a Wu-Tang clan,but that's why I'm saying, oh
no See, wu-tang clan got ninemembers right A-Ball and MJG Two
, ugk Four, outkast Six, goodyMob Eight, 3-6 Mafia, they got

(01:14:16):
about they.
Wu-tang South there's two coremembers but there's about six or
seven other guys floatingaround.
There was enough great music tofill the gap.
And so he's only explaining onepart of the story.
He's explaining the part of itwhere they got cut off.
He's not explaining the factthat there was quality music

(01:14:36):
coming from the camps out ofhere in the South to fill the
gap.
Now, it may have taken thosegroups in bulk to fill the gap,
but the quality was there tofill the gap.
There is a Soul Food, there isa ATL East, there is a Quimena,
there is Coming Out Hard, thereis the Diary, there's all of
Scarface's projects through the90s, and so, ag, when you're

(01:14:58):
talking about cutting off theirnose and smiting their face,
it's like, yeah, they did it,but they did it at their own
expense, not realizing how muchquality hip-hop the South had to
offer.
He's not saying it.
He's not saying it with thecaveat but the South really did
have dope shit and that's whythey were able to put it on lock
.
He's not acknowledging thatpart, and him not acknowledging

(01:15:20):
that part is where it comes offlike oh well, you're just hating
on the South when you're doingthat.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
Yeah, but even if you explain it in that way, like
you know, if you cut offsomebody else's water in your
own you know home, just to giveit to somebody else, that's you
know.
That's the whole point of itall.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
Think about this and New Yorkers need to take note of
this and forever remember this.
It's criminal that the PurpleTape doesn't have doggy style
type numbers.
It's criminal.
It's a failure.
It's a failure by the New yorkfan base that the purple tape

(01:15:59):
didn't sell five million records.
It has every like.
When I look at the purple tapein doggy style, it's like no,
the purple tape is doggy styleeast well, I'm glad you talked
about it, because at least threemillion records.
At least three million records.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
I'm glad you talked about numbers, because I want to
say this, and then Seanpiggyback off my point because
we was talking behind the scenes.
And Wu-Tang is at their height,their absolute peak at 97.
And Coop, I know you hate onthe Pillage album all the time
by Kappa Donna.
But, think about how much attheir peak they have to be for
Kappa to be the first solo albumout of the gate after forever.

(01:16:38):
The band is in full effect.
One, number two RZA takes astep back in production duties
and doesn't do the whole album.
Two, three you don't have yourpartners and rom ray and go
standing next to you on everytrack like you did.
You know you was the uh personriding in the back seat while
ray was riding shotgun on ironman, so you had it for dolo.

(01:17:01):
And then you still come out ofthat and you sell gold that and
for, for he's the 10th member ofthe clan, he's low man on the
totem pole right and he stillgoes gold despite all those
things, because the woo was ahousehold name in 97, that all
that stuff was in play and ineffect, and he still went gold.

(01:17:23):
Now imagine if they don't havethe band, because the band
wasn't just for the group, theband affected all the solo
members as well.
But this is what I'm saying theoffshoot groups.

Speaker 1 (01:17:32):
No, this is what hot 97 did, though Offshoot groups.
This is what Hot 97 did, thoughNothing Marries I'll Be there
For you.
Is that diamond yet?
Because it should be, and I'mpretty certain if Hot 97 would
have played it the way that theyshould have, it'd be diamond
already.
I don't think it's diamond yet,which is criminal.
It's criminal that 50 isgetting records from Get Rich or

(01:17:54):
Die.
Trying and I'll Be there Foryou is almost 8 to 10 years
older than most of those recordsand that album and that
record's not diamond.
That's what Hot 97 did.
It's criminal that Takao's notdouble platinum, only Built for
Cuban Leaks isn't quadrupleplatinum.
Return to the 36 Chambers andLiquid Swords should both be at

(01:18:14):
least platinum and a bear youget what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
That was RZA's point.
Rza said that Wu-Tang Foreverwould have went diamond.
It still did five million.

Speaker 1 (01:18:22):
No, it still did five million.
So when he's talking about thecriminology that was inflicted
upon his crew, he is right.
What he is failing tounderstand is that they felt
okay inflicting it because theywere very well aware it's like
oh, no, no, no, we got othermusic to fill your gap.

Speaker 3 (01:18:39):
What you got.
Sean, I agree Everythinghappened at one time and it
collected everything.
New York Radio Hurt Woo attheir Zenith.
The music probably wasn't thebest after Wu-Tang Forever at
that first run, but also it'shard to say that because, if it
wasn't even after Wu-TangForever at that first run.
But also it's hard to say thatbecause if it wasn't even don't

(01:19:01):
do that, cole If it wasn't evenplaying in the.
I told AG this before.
You want to know what?
When we consume music in a club, it sounds different than
riding your car.

Speaker 1 (01:19:10):
Hold on, hold on, hold on, sean.
We need to admit somethingWu-Tang Forever might not be
like that, guys no, it's not no,it's not.
No, you're bugging no, y'all arebugging, because here's the
reality of the matter.
Here's the reality of thematter.
For whatever you say, if y'allwere doing their 20 best songs,

(01:19:34):
understand that a 13 track albumwould have 10 of the 20 and a
27 track album would probablyonly have another five or six.
So tell me how it's like that,ben, it's like that cool, don't
do that, no, no favorite albumof all time.

Speaker 2 (01:19:48):
Bro, I'm not doing this with you, I'm so hold on
hold on, hold, on, hold, on holdon.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
Just because it's your favorite album of all time
doesn't mean that my claim isinvalid, though no, I didn't say
it's the best, but it's yourfavorite album of all time
doesn't mean that my claim isn'tvalid, though.

Speaker 2 (01:19:58):
No, I didn't say it's the best, but it's still my
favorite.
No, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
But we're being objective here.
Like Southern Play, a list ofCadillac music is my favorite
Outkast album.
I know Equimini is better.
So like, objectively speaking,is what we are talking when we
were talking these things.
And maybe the problem is thatWu-Tang Forever ain't like that.
What's so memorable about thealbum outside of the Triumph
video to the general populace?

(01:20:22):
That's not in the bars like weare Cool, you have to be.
No, I'm asking you.
I'm asking you a legitimatequestion.
When people talk about Wu-TangForever, what do they talk about
outside of Inspector Dex versein the Triumph video?
What do they talk about outsideof Inspector Dex verse in the
Triumph video?
People who were not heads, thegeneral rat populace, the same
people who bought all eyes on meand life after death.
Like those people, they don'thold Wu-Tang forever like that.

(01:20:45):
Is it like that?
Those people are dumb.
You can't call those peopledumb just because they.
It's yours.
I'm sorry guys, it's yours,it's yours.
I'm sorry guys, it's yours,it's yours.
Probably wouldn't make Book Oneof All Eyes on Me or Life After
.

Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
Death.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
It wouldn't make Book One ofeither of those albums, guys.
It wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
Definitely wouldn't make Book One of Life After
Death.
It's yours.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
It's yours isn't good enough for Book One of Life
After Death, guys.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
Man Reunited is one of the most iconic Wu songs of
all time.
Impossible is crazy.
One of the best Wu songs of alltime.

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
MGM.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
You talking about no MGM might be the best Ray and
Ghost combo song.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
MGM is my favorite song on Wu-Tang Forever.
Objectively, I would tell youthat's not one of their 20 best
rap songs.
Guys, I love the MGM more thany'all do.
It's my favorite Ray and Ghostmoment.
Actually, I love Ray and Ghoston the MGM more than I love them
on any of the projects, on anyof their solo albums, and

(01:21:54):
objectively, I will tell you no,that's not good enough.
Let's table that one foranother debate.
Y'all talking like Wu-TangForever is some sort of five-mic
album.
It's not, guys.

Speaker 3 (01:22:03):
You never said a five-mic album, but you sound
like it's a three-mic album.
That's how you're talking.
You're talking like it's athree-mic album.

Speaker 1 (01:22:07):
Don't do that.
It's five-mic to me.
How about this?
It's closer to a four than itis a five.

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
It's five mics to me For every skip.
You can pull out of Wu-TangForever.
I can pull the same amount ofskips off All Eyes On Me or Life
After Death.

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
No, you can't.
Those are lies.
Both of y'all are full of shit.
That's not true.

Speaker 3 (01:22:27):
Hold on.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
Wu-Tang Forever is not in the same conversation
with All Eyes On Me and LifeAfter Death.
If you think you are, you'rewrong.

Speaker 3 (01:22:34):
All eyes on me fall off in the second disc.

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
I mean, first of all, hold on, you can talk about
that second disc, all you wantto.
Everything that I got on thefirst disc smokes almost
everything on Wu-Tang Forever.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
But see, here you go, like you know, doctoring up
shit.
You act like the second discdon't exist.

Speaker 3 (01:22:48):
No, no, no, this is what I mean I could be the same
thing, built differently.

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
Some classics have classic lyricism, classic beats,
classic songs and big momentsand do all the records.
That's All Eyes On Me.
Wu-tang Forever is not thatWu-Tang Forever.

Speaker 3 (01:23:04):
Lyrics no, I just described All.

Speaker 1 (01:23:06):
Eyes On Me, you just described Wu-Tang Forever Lyrics
.

Speaker 3 (01:23:09):
Here's what you do Kool-Aid what?

Speaker 2 (01:23:11):
did Wu-Tang Forever sell versus All Eyes On Me.
Say that again.
What would Say?

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
Forever Sell versus All Eyes On Me.
Say that again.
What did one man sell versusnine on a double album?
Come on, Coo, this is.

Speaker 3 (01:23:21):
No, no, no, no, no, no.
You want to split the hairs.
You want to split the hairs.

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
What Hold on?
Nine guys sold two million andone guy sold five.

Speaker 2 (01:23:29):
What Styles P say.
You know, 10 rappers get betterpromotion.
First of all, hold on um, firstof all, hold on.
The five was live.
The five was live.
It didn't go a full five whilehe was alive, it did.
I mean he died some monthslater.
It wasn't a full five mil yetwe're not doing this.

Speaker 3 (01:23:46):
Let's, let's move on, hold on, hold on hold on the
previous project.

Speaker 1 (01:23:50):
The previous project did more numbers than we'll take
forever me against.
The World sold more thanWu-Tang Forever, and that was a
solo project, guys.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
That wasn't before.
It was like double platinum andit did like three more million
after he passed Coop.

Speaker 1 (01:24:04):
Hold on, hold, on, hold on Hold on Me Against the
World did three million while hewas alive, sir.
No it was double it was double.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
It did the other ones after he passed.
No, no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:24:13):
While alive, it was double.
While he was in prison, it wasthree million.
While he was alive.

Speaker 2 (01:24:18):
That's still not more than forever, Kluge.

Speaker 1 (01:24:20):
How much did Forever sell Five, five when Over like
total, being blackballed?
Hold on, hold on.
Hold on Five four.
No, they were being blackballedby Hot 9-7.
They weren't being blackballedby the industry, sean, they're
being blackballed by their localradio station.

Speaker 2 (01:24:35):
It's a 10-year ban.
See, this is what I hate whenniggas do this shit, because
niggas want to argue shit andnot put it in proper context.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
They were banned for 10 years and they don't put it
in proper context.
Hold on, hold, on Hold on.
You think it's not putting shitin proper context.

Speaker 3 (01:24:49):
Tell me how many classic songs is really's a
10-year ban.
That means the radio is notplaying it.
That means you're not gettingthat extra bump.
You're not getting anything.

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
It's an inverse, like while Pac got more and he was
more of a fodder.
That's why I'm talking aboutthe quality of the record guys
Pac and Baby were more martyrsand legends.

Speaker 3 (01:25:13):
Their ascension is going to go here.

Speaker 2 (01:25:15):
Wu-Tang's going to go sheer because it was a fan.

Speaker 1 (01:25:17):
No, listen to what I'm saying.
That's why I'm not having anumbers conversation with you.
Bad, this nigga from theconcert man I mean.
First of all, unlike you twoguys, I was actually at the
Garden for the big show.
Show me if you want to pull up,you know what I'm saying Stop
talking that shit and pull up.

Speaker 3 (01:25:35):
Stop talking that shit.
Stop talking that shit and pullup.

Speaker 1 (01:25:36):
Stop talking that shit and pull up Both of y'all,
let's talk facts right quick.
Y'all want to talk numbers,let's stop talking numbers,
let's talk about how manyclassic rap songs.
Stop talking that shit andanswer my question how many
classic rap songs on 27?
It's a 27 rap track album.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
How many?

Speaker 1 (01:25:57):
classic rap songs are on the 27 songs.
According to you guys, classic7 out of 27?
Thank you, you're making mypoint If 7 out of 27 songs are
classic and you're talking aboutAll Eyes On Me and Life After
Death.
What the fuck are y'all smokingthey?

Speaker 2 (01:26:09):
got about the same.
You're talking about all-timeclassic songs.

Speaker 3 (01:26:13):
Let's move on.
Hold on First.

Speaker 1 (01:26:14):
of all you could argue.
There are people that thinkthat the first seven songs on
Life After Death and All Eyes OnMe are classic.
You understand that right.
As far as most people feel like, the first seven songs on Life
After Death and All Eyes On Meare classic period and you're
giving me seven out of 27.
We don't have to have a numbersconversation, guys.
The fucking quality is notthere and you need to accept it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
It's not even 27 real songs, like five of them.
Shits is like intros whereniggas just talking to keep the
singing, like you know what Imean.
You down to like 22 because youcould eliminate five off the
top.
You got the Woo Revolution.

Speaker 1 (01:26:52):
You got the outro.
You pick the date.
You pick the date.
In the station head y'all canpick the Biggie or the Tupac
album.

Speaker 2 (01:27:02):
I will smoke Wu-Tang forever we about to fade your
ass with Mobb Deep right now.
What Mobb Deep got to do withWu-Tang forever versus All Eyes
On Me or Life After Death.

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
We can pull it back to back.
No, you said that that wascomparable and, let's be clear,
I'm the one that came on thispodcast and said that Mobb Deep
would be outcast.
Stop acting like you're doingsome special shit, ag.
I just literally said next lastweek that Mobb Deep would
probably win 13-8.
I'm taking outcast because I'mfrom the South, but I literally
said last week, objectively,that Mobb Deep should win based

(01:27:35):
on a hip-hop format.
So stop making it seem likeyou're doing special shit and
next time you niggas want topull up with this Wu-Tang
Forever shit versus Life.
After Death or All Eyes On Me,I'm going to smoke you with
either album and apparentlyevery other rap nigga, who knows
they shit knows this.
You're not beating that Wu-TangForever shit.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
Who's going to trail off this one to All Eyes On Me?
Then you go trail off, you gofall off a cliff.

Speaker 1 (01:27:57):
Nigga the shit on All Eyes On Me.
Book one is enough to beat you.
You don't have 13 classic songson Wu-Tang Forever.
You don't even have 10.

Speaker 2 (01:28:06):
They don't have 13 classic songs on the first book.

Speaker 1 (01:28:08):
There are 10 classic records on book one.
There aren't 10 classic recordsbetween book one and two of
Wu-Tang.

Speaker 3 (01:28:13):
Forever you one and two of Wu-Tang.
Forever, you're absolutelyright, I know You're right,
because you moved the goalpoststo the basketball court, to the
hockey piece.
No, nobody moved nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:28:23):
You want to talk numbers All eyes on me.
If you want to talk numbers,all eyes on me.
And life after death is better.
And if you want to talk music,it's better.
Ain't shit moving.
Ain't shit moving.
Any way you want to move.
Any way you want to move.
Wu-tang Forever on its best dayis third.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
You're talking about two rappers that were martyrs
right after the albums dropped.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
I'm talking about the quality of the music too, guys.
I said we can talk sales orquality.
It's not a conversation, it'snot Right on Wu-Tang.
Y'all are wild.
That goal post is all over theplace, you think impossible
fucking with like 10 crackcommandments or kicking the door
or America's Most Wanted, it'snot.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
How many mics you give?
Wooten Forever Coop.
How many mics you give?

Speaker 1 (01:29:08):
Four I've always said the run.
Guys, if you don't payattention, I always talk about
their run and I always say toIron man I don't include Wu-Tang
Forever in the run, becauseit's not a classic, it's a
four-mic album.
That's wild.

Speaker 3 (01:29:30):
The beat, shall we?
Let's go with the verse.

Speaker 1 (01:29:33):
Pick the station head date.
Y'all pick Parker big.
It don't even matter which rapalbum you pick, I ain't picking
shit.
Let's go to this verse.
Pick the station head date.
Y'all pick Pac or Big.
It don't even matter which rapalbum you pick, let's go to this
verse.
Oh, we know y'all can't pickshit.
You just picked Wu-Tang Foreverand thought it was comparable
to Big or Pac shit.
We know y'all don't know shit.
Today, moving on man Finishschool 27-track rap album with

(01:29:53):
seven classic rap songs, y'alltrying to compare it to Life
After Death.
All Eyes on Me, niggas, issmoking.
Nigga shut up, Can we?
Move on, damn Y'all niggas,shut up with that shit.
Stop standing over Wu-Tang andbe objective for once in your
fucking life.
How about that?

Speaker 2 (01:30:09):
I am objective.
That's a five-point album, fourand a half at the worst, don.

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
Don't be pulling up and telling me to shut up.
I'm not your fucking kid AG.
What?

Speaker 2 (01:30:17):
Shut up, Like I said, like let's move on man Shit.

Speaker 3 (01:30:25):
Keep talking, man Shit, are we going to do this,
or what man?

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
Tell Coop to get back on so we can run this versus
real quick, since he said thathe already given us the belt.

Speaker 3 (01:30:39):
I don't even know Anyhow.
Wu-tang forever smokingeverybody's boots.
I don't care what Shit.

Speaker 2 (01:30:51):
You don't know where to stop, man.
We've been trying to move on.

Speaker 3 (01:30:54):
Been trying to move on.
So what are we going to do?

Speaker 2 (01:30:59):
Man, let's take it to the.
I guess we ain't doing the BobDeep Outcast thing.
But the reason why we was goingto do this?
Because Twitter was on firethis week comparing Mob Deep and
Outcast catalog.
So what we originally hadplanned was to do a little
in-pole versus 20, track fortrack joints, and um outcast

(01:31:22):
versus mob deep see who came outon top.
So me and sean was going totake mob deep and coop was going
to take outcast to representatl.
But as he said here that um,that, uh, he said a couple shows
ago that Outkast would lose.
Is that what he said?
13-8?
Yeah, he had a mob deep whichwould be 21 songs, but it's due

(01:31:45):
to here and on there.
So we'll go on.
But I guess we ain't doing thatnow.
But we'll move on to the nexttopic, which would be are we
going to J Cole versus the Gibbs?

Speaker 3 (01:31:56):
Yeah, yeah First of all going to the next topic,
which would be?
Are we going to J Cole?

Speaker 2 (01:31:59):
versus the Gibbs.
Yeah, yeah, first of all, goahead.
Let's talk about the cloudsfirst.

Speaker 3 (01:32:04):
Yeah, he killed it.
I mean, this is who we.
This is who he is.
We know who he is.
We know who J Cole is.
This is not a secret.
This is not like he's not arapper's rapper.
This is what he do.
Second verse he left Earth.
We know that.
Right, first verse is rampingup.
Second verse is he's leavingEarth.
This is who he is.

(01:32:25):
This is what he is.
I think the thing is, the crazything is, when you think about
Cole and you think about theposition that he kind of put
himself in and you think aboutthe position that he kind of put
himself in Now, you're in atough spot because if you're
going to rap and you're going tosay certain things, you're
going to speak that bravado.
We talked about this before.

(01:32:46):
We talked about this in thepast.
We said now, where does he goas an artist?
Does he continue to talk likehe's the big boy or does he
continue to talk like he has?
You know, there's some biggloves that he can go at anybody
.
If he's going to talk that kindof talk, then he has to be able
to back it up.
Right, and we saw in real timethat he actually pulled back.

(01:33:09):
He pulled back from being thatguy that was actually competing
with that big three, because hewas part of that big three.
So now, when he's talkingbravado and he's talking about
taking out MCs or taking aboutrappers or whatever, you're
going to have some backlash fromthat, but he's still.
He's still still is cold.

(01:33:29):
Regardless of what, he's stillcold, he's still one of them,
he's still one of the dopest mcsthat's out there.
Regardless.
It ain't nothing you can doabout it and I think, at the end
of the day, we gotta you gottarespect for respecting for who
he is.
You gotta respect him for that.
And klaus is just showing youthat he is one of them,

(01:33:51):
regardless of what what he didin hip-hop.
I know it's unforgivablebecause we talked about it.
I didn't like it.
I hated the fact that is itknow it's unforgivable because
we talked about it.
I didn't like it, I hated thefact that Is it, though Is it
unforgivable, oh?

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
Or does time heal?
Stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (01:34:04):
I think time and good music Time heals, but it's
still.
It's an unforgivable thing.
When you're thinking about hiphop, because hip hop is a combat
sport, you, hip hop, is acombat sport.
You know what I mean?
It's a combat sport.
So when you're talking aboutit's a contact sport.
So when you're talking aboutgetting into the ring and you're
saying you're the best and yousay that I'm better than this

(01:34:26):
rapper or I'm taking rappers out, but then you bow out of a
battle, you're going to get.
They're going to judge you forthat.
They're going to judge you forthat and there's nothing else
you can do about that.
It's going to always follow him.
He can drop.
He's going to have to honestlydrop more than an amazing album
and even with that, people aregoing to still have something to

(01:34:48):
say.
They're going to still say weknow he can do that, so why did
he back out?
It's going to always go back tothat.
It's unfortunate, but it'sgoing to follow him.
It's really going to follow him.

Speaker 2 (01:35:01):
Yeah, but I mean this should be evidence that he has
it in him to make that album.
That will quiet a lot of thosenaysayers.
You know what I mean Because,like you said, he's rapping on
the highest of levels.
I wasn't really a fan of thebeat on this track, but the
rapping man, what he's doinglyrically on here and then the

(01:35:21):
flow pocket, is crazy work man.
It's insane.
And you know, and and the stuffhe's talking about, like subject
matter, like talking about aiand you know cole, when he gets
in his um, you knowthought-provprovoking reflective
bag he's.
You know that's his wheelhouse.

(01:35:41):
And he's not talking the.
You know I'll smoke everyrapper.
Who I do a feature with.
He's not talking that, no more.
He's getting back into his likeyou know, just reflecting and
stuff.
And I think if he keeps itthere you know what I mean and
shoot straight down the middle,I think he'll be all right.
You know what I mean, becauseif he's displaying this level of

(01:36:02):
rapping on his album, then hisalbum is going to be a problem.
But my worry is more so aboutwho he gets for the production.
You know, because I wasn't afan of the production on this,
that much.
But you know, had little littleelements, had the little wiz
khalifa laugh in there anddifferent things, and you know
it was.
It was a dope track.
But my whole thing is, if this,I'm tired of the appetizers or

(01:36:26):
the warm-ups or you knowwhatever to get ready for the
album.
He's been promoting this albumfor years.
Like at this point you justgotta drop the album and stand
on that whatever.
Whatever it is Like, becausewhen you record over such a long
period of time, you have stuffthat may be stellar but it's old
, so it's like stale to you now.

(01:36:47):
So he might shelve that andthen keep creating and keep
creating or do, and you're nevergoing to get the product that
you want to put out to thepublic.
At some point you got to likewith that baby you created, you
got to live with it and you know, give birth to it, right.
So I think he's just messinghimself up by prolonging it long
, you know longer and longer,unless he's just waiting for

(01:37:10):
this tidal wave that wasKendrick Lamar to get totally
out of the way, lamar to gettotally out of the way.

Speaker 3 (01:37:16):
I think, is this a warm up for the album?
Is this just a wrap up?

Speaker 2 (01:37:24):
I mean it seems that way.
It seems that way Seems likeit's part of the rollout.
But then we had the podcast, wehad the garden show, we had
well, thetonio was kind of likejust reflecting on his you know
where he stood with the wholebattle thing or whatever.

(01:37:45):
But I mean he's been promotingthe fall off for like way too
long.

Speaker 3 (01:37:49):
At this point you gotta drop it the longer, the
more you do things like this andthe longer you go through this
whole process of just promotingit and dropping loosies that we
are talking about, it's going toput more pressure on the album.
It's going to put more pressureon the album Because, like you

(01:38:09):
said, all of the ramp up startedat the back half of last year,
off the heels of arguably one ofthe biggest battles that we've
seen, right, and he came intothe new year dropping loosies
and telling us that it's stillcoming.
And that's the crazy thingabout it, because now he's in a
position where he got to deliver.

(01:38:30):
He's in a really interestingspace man because you got people
like Freddie Gibbs going at himnow right Doing sneak disses,
and I'll be honest with you, EG.
I know you and Coop.
You guys are big fans ofFreddie, more than I am, but I
think Freddie is a.
I think he's a dangerous personto get in the ring with at this

(01:38:52):
point.
If I'm J Cole, I think he's alittle bit dangerous.

Speaker 2 (01:39:01):
Joe Button was talking on his podcast that J
Cole's eventually going to haveto come outside and make an
example of somebody Out ofsomebody.
Regardless of if he didn't wantto get into the ring with
Kendrick, he has to picksomebody and you got to fight
that person.
You got to make an example ofsomebody and that might be Gibbs

(01:39:22):
for him.
And with all this talk withFreddie Gibbs sending his little
shots or whatever, our Discorddialogues this week is centered
around both of theirdiscographies.
We put it in our Discord chatchat and it wasn't the obvious
question like who's the betterrapper?
Anything based on legacy orwhatever.
We know the answer to thatalready, so we're

(01:39:44):
compartmentalizing this question.
So what we asked is just far asdiscography is concerned, the
projects that they put out whohas the strongest discography?
And an overwhelming 67 in thediscord, which are discord
members there's about 100 peoplein there.
Uh, the vote was for freddiegibbs 67 and I thought that was

(01:40:10):
a lot more lopsided than what Iwould think it would be.
But me personally, I think thatgibbs has the better
discography.
Is he a better rapper than Cole?
No, Does he rank higher alltime than Cole, Hell, no, you
know.
But as far as like puttingtogether, you know cohesive
projects, that's like you knowfour, four and a half five mics.
I think he's got that mastereda little bit better than what

(01:40:34):
Cole does.

Speaker 3 (01:40:35):
Do you want to see a Cole and Freddie battle though
that's the crazy thing Do youwant to see that?

Speaker 2 (01:40:43):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:40:44):
Because I don't think Cole could win either way.
Because they'll say why are youpunching down to Freddie?
Because, again, freddie was notlooked at.
You don't think that would bepunching down?
I'm saying from the overalltrajectory of it.

Speaker 2 (01:40:59):
From his status in the game.

Speaker 3 (01:41:00):
From his status right , because you're talking about
Freddie, who was never mentionedin the big three.
He was never mentioned in thetop five, never mentioned even
in the top ten.
So it's not like he's punchingdown to someone that's not
lyrically inclined.
He's punching down to someonewho wasn't mentioned in those
higher names.

Speaker 2 (01:41:21):
Jay-Z still dedicated the whole song to Cam Ron.

Speaker 3 (01:41:25):
Yeah, but you have to think about just the bite balls
that Cam had and that didn'treally do much for Jay.
That wasn't one of those.

Speaker 2 (01:41:32):
No, it didn't.
I'm just saying the principleof it, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:41:36):
And Cam is Cam.
Cam is going to disrespect andat the end of the day, with
Freddie Freddie is very witty,he can probably get some things
off, but again, I just don'tknow if that would be the right
move for Cole.
But at the same time, if you'reCole, what are you going to do?
Because you're going to haveothers that may feel the same

(01:41:58):
way.
You know, I'm saying others mayfeel like yo.
I can go at him too.
I can do this and I can do thatand those may not be nowhere
close to where Cole legacy is atthis point.
As great as Freddie, asconsistent as Freddie's catalog
is and I know some people wouldsay his catalog is a little bit
better than Cole's catalog hedoesn't have the legacy that

(01:42:18):
Cole has.
Right, that's a separator.
When the legacy is not thereand you're going legacy to
legacy, it's pale in comparison.
And if Cole goes into that room, even if he pulls even AG, even
if it's close, even if it'sclose, Cole's not going to win.

Speaker 2 (01:42:40):
And people want to hold it against him, like, oh,
you'll get in the ring with him,but you didn't against Kendrick
, so it don't even matter.

Speaker 3 (01:42:46):
You apologize to the boogeyman, but you ready to get,
you know, in the ring withFreddie Gibbs.
That's the narrative.
Unfortunately, that's thenarrative.
Unfortunately, that's thenarrative.
And you know, Freddie andothers, there's a lot of
material there for Cole.

Speaker 2 (01:43:02):
We'll just say that.

Speaker 3 (01:43:04):
It is.
But, freddie, he leans into it,he embraces it, he does, he
does.
He's dangerous.
He's going to be like, yeah,you can call me that and he'll
make a rhyme about it.
He'll lean into it.
That makes him very dangerous.
If I'm Cole and people got tostart playing with Cole name man
, it's too much.
It's too much second guessingCole.

(01:43:25):
We never second guessed Colebefore.

Speaker 2 (01:43:28):
Right.
And, if I'm being honest, themain reason why I don't want to
see a battle is because I don'twant Cole distracted.
I don't want Cole distracted.
I just want the album, thealbum to stand on its own merits
and him not have to be worriedabout addressing Kendrick,
addressing Drake, addressingFreddie or addressing anything.
Just focus on putting out adope project and then stand on
that and once we will judge thatfor what it is.

(01:43:49):
So that's the main reason why Idon't want to see the battle
between these two.
You don't need any distractions,like you kind of, like you said
with ross and the wholekendrick and drake you know
thing, like he was just puttinghis two cents in, you know, and
he was a distraction from youknow drake, focusing on kendrick
or whatever.
So, um, I don't, I don't wantcole distracted man, I want him

(01:44:11):
to really put out a qualityproduct and you know, I, I don't
, I don't, by the unwrittenrules of hip-hop, the apology
still stands as like a majorblemish on his career.
But, um, I'm, I'm, I've movedon past that now.
If we, if we can, we just got tobe objective, as rap fans like,

(01:44:34):
if we can move on from certainthings like drake with the ghost
writing stuff and the quittmiller stuff you know what I
mean and people moved on fromthat and still rock with his
music, then, just like that, weshould be able to move on with
code.
Is it still a little bit fresh?
Yeah, and maybe, maybe that'swhy he's taking so long.
Maybe he's waiting for all thatto kind of those feelings to

(01:44:55):
kind of die down a little bitbefore he releases his project
because he wants it to be a newslate for himself, so to speak.

Speaker 3 (01:45:04):
Yeah, I hope.
I hope that he can regainmomentum.
I think he still has a littlebit of it left.
I just don't know.
I just don't know if the if theaudience is going to give him
that shot.
That's my biggest concern.
I just don't know if theaudience is going to give him a
shot.
Man, hip hop can be unforgiving.

(01:45:25):
Hip hop doesn't you know, it'shard.
Man, once you take a fall likethat, hip hop won't let you
forget.
We're the only genre that holdsthat against our artists, our
legends.
That's a fact.
That's a tough spot to be in forCole, because I still think
that Cole is one of them.
I still think that he's one ofthe greatest ones of his

(01:45:49):
generation, of his era.
He checks all the boxes in hisera.
That's the crazy thing.
You got to give him respect.
I don't like to see this stuffon Twitter and on social media
and other platforms talkingabout cold, like very ill or
cold, because it puts him in abad spot.
Man, it really does, it reallydoes.

(01:46:10):
But he also got to put himselfout of that too.
If you're going to do clouds,you got to get back into your
cold bag.
Get into the bag that peoplechampion you for as well.
Don't dwell on that beef, nomore.
Don't dwell on what you shouldhave done or what you couldn't
have done.
What you could have done.
Go back into your bag, go intothe place that people champion

(01:46:33):
you in the beginning.
Don't say I'm going to kill anMC, or I can kill this person or
kill that person on the mic Nah, he can't do that, no more,
he's too talented for that.
You don't have to lean intothat anymore.
He doesn't have to.

Speaker 2 (01:46:46):
Not right now, Winnie , no he was Nah, don't do that
anymore.
But yeah, since we're here,though, we're talking about
comparison of theirdiscographies man, excuse me, I
don't want to put them fake thefans, so let's at least talk
about Mobb Deep's discographyversus OutKast's discography a
little bit.
You know, let's get into that.

Speaker 3 (01:47:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we may get a chance to circle back
to the battle at some point.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
And it might be better suited for Stationhead
anyway, but I think this was aninteresting discussion.
As groups go, I have a hardtime comparing.
I separate groups from duos.
We just got through, you know,coop ran off a bunch of duos in
hip hop when we was talkingabout Smith and Wesson.

Speaker 3 (01:47:37):
I'm sorry, I don't want to go to super chats.
I'm sorry, I don't know what asuper chance.
I almost forgot Number seven.
Cold is cold, but forever in myeyes, never be number one.
Be the number one, that's fair.
My mere thoughts.
If you run home from a fight inthe hood, at any age, nobody
forgets it.
J Cole Cole got to wear thatjacket forever, it's true.

(01:47:59):
It'll follow you All right.
Sorry bro.
No, you did real quick.

Speaker 2 (01:48:08):
I forgot about something.
Before we go on to Mob Deep andOutkast, somebody put on
Twitter Shout out to I think itwas a day Mentality, yeah, shout
out to you if you watch theshow, bro.
He put on Twitter somethingthat I can't get out of my head.
Man, he said that J Cole waslike Jason Tatum Dead, nice but

(01:48:31):
no aura.
I was like, damn, that's kindof harsh, but it's truth to that
, right, you know what I mean.
It's like.
You know, even though Cole's asuperstar, right, I've always
preferred Cole out of the bigthree.
You know he's, you know, triedand true like MC, like a

(01:48:54):
rapper's rapper.
Cole was my guy.
That's why I didn't have no dogin the fight with the Kendrick
and Drake battle was because Iwas looking to see what Cole was
going to do, cause he was myfavorite between Kendrick and
Drake.
I was like neutral, likewhatever, but out of the three
of them he just is.
You know he still has an itfactor, but it's to a lesser

(01:49:15):
degree of what Drake andKendrick have.
But if you ask me who's thenicest MC out of the three of
them, I think Cole is the nicestMC, easily.
I think Kendrick is the betterartist, but Cole is the nicer MC
.
What do you got to say to that?

Speaker 3 (01:49:36):
powerful pound.
I think he is pound.
I think he is Pound for pound,I think he is.
But again, we talk about legacyversus legacy, legend versus
legend.
All of those things play somuch of a factor in today's hip
hop.
I mean, it always plays afactor in hip hop and music in
general.
Your legacy is your legacy,what you built, what you created

(01:50:00):
, and once you start gettinginto that conversation, you're
pulling heads, you're pullingstraws.
It's a matter of who you preferthe most.
You know, honestly, I don'tthink there's honest.
I don't think there's a wronganswer to either one.
I really don't.
I really really don't.
But if you ask me for mypalette, what I like, I go cold.

Speaker 2 (01:50:24):
Agreed, Agreed.
Mob Deep and Outkast man yeah.
Two of the best discographiesin hip-hop, if you ask me.

Speaker 3 (01:50:35):
Yes, consistent, very consistent, yes, consistent,
very consistent out the gate.
There's not too many groupsthat have that kind of
consistency on both sides.
As both groups continued to godown that path in their
discography, it kind of waned alittle bit.

(01:50:56):
It waned a little bit.
It waned a little bit on bothsides because they started, you
know, kind of getting away fromthe thing that made them
successful.
Right, you know, I mean, andwhen you start being more
creative as an artist, sometimesthe fans don't follow along
with you, and I think that'skind of what happened with both.

Speaker 2 (01:51:16):
Yeah, outkast pushed the bounds of creativity the
most between the two of them.
But I think both groups havethree solo.
I mean sorry, I think bothgroups have three classic
records in a row Mobb Deep withthe infamous Hell on Earth and
Murder Music, and then Outkastwith Southern Playalistic AT

(01:51:36):
Aliens and the Clemenon.
I think that goes withoutsaying.
Even a diehard Outkast fan Idon't think would say that Stank
On you is a classic, but it'stheir most successful commercial
album.
That kind of you know what Imean.
That's heavy.

(01:51:57):
That adds a lot of weight ontheir side of the scale when
comparing them to mob deep,because by the time mob deeps
get gets to infamy, they're kindof tailing off a little bit.
You know what I mean, um, butuh, yeah, it's the song.

Speaker 3 (01:52:14):
It's the song.
Yeah, yeah, it's a song.

Speaker 2 (01:52:15):
It's a song, absolutely.
And you know, just talkingabout the two stars of the group
, andre 3000 and Prodigy, youknow, when they were both
approaching their zenith in 96,going into 97, those two were in
.
We talked about this behind thescenes.
Those two were in a lot of hiphop conversations outside of the

(01:52:36):
usual suspects, suspects of,like, you know, pot nas, big j
on the rise, like a lot ofpeople were putting, you know,
prodigy in their top fives.
A lot of people were puttingandre just outside of their top
fives then for their, uh,rhyming ability.
So you know those, those twomcs were, you know, top tier.

(01:52:56):
And then the rhyme partners Idon't think Big Boy gets enough
credit, you know rhymingalongside Andre.
Nor do I think Havoc getsenough credit, because I think a
lot of times people just lookat Havoc as the producer.
But you know there's a lot ofsongs out there where I feel
like Havoc got Prodigy, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:53:16):
I agree, I agree, I agree.
I was listening to a lot thisHold on.
We got another super chat.
We got all Mad Max.
Mad Max left my ass off.
Mobb Deep is far superior toOutKast, not Tribe, de La or Wu
either.
Kast has too many poppy musicfor Mobb.
3-6 with Dust Kast, 3-6 withDust Kast, off with Dust Kast if

(01:53:41):
Kast don't pick the rightjoints.
And P got more quotables.
Mad Max is a wow he has a lotof quotables.
I think here's the thing.
And P got more quotables.
Mad Max is a wild man.
He has a lot of quotables.
He has a lot of quotables.
I think here's the thing.
Cast, they push the musicboundary to the limits and
that's why their catalog got achance to expand, you know,

(01:54:03):
across boundaries.
It wasn't local anymore, itwasn't just for one genre.
When it started reaching othergenres of music, that put Kass
in a whole differentstratosphere and it sounded
weird in the beginning.
You hear Bombs of a Baghdad inthe very beginning, like what
the money?
What is this?
It was just all over the place.
But I can tell you, I was inJapan when it came out and it

(01:54:24):
was going bonkers over there,bonkers, and you can tell that
the sonics, the aesthetics ofthe sounds and everything were
just changing the guard.
Because music at that time, youknow, instruments at that time
became more ubiquitous acrosship hop because there was no
more boom bap.
It started transitioning intomore melody, transitioning to

(01:54:47):
more live instrumentation.
We just talked about Just Blazenot too long ago.
Now you have more of a loudersound than you had, more of a
hollow sound, if you will,versus the hollow sound of hip
hop, and I do think that withMobb Deep again, when you get
the money all day right, I stillfeel like it's one of those
things where Mobb Deep's Soundwas one of the architects of the

(01:55:11):
golden era of New York hip hopand probably hip hop in general.
You had the funk era.
That was established as one ofthe architects, of course, of
the West Coast sound in theearly 90s the early 90s.
But then you're talking aboutwhat ushered in that New York
sound and Mob Deep sound,havoc's production, alchemist's

(01:55:32):
production, that wholewheelhouse Q-Tip all of that was
an architect to the sound ofhip-hop.
So we hold it very dear to usbut it never progressed past the
2000s.
You see what I'm saying,whereas Outkast was able to

(01:55:52):
progress even past that becausethey kept pushing the envelope
when it came to their sound andbecause of that again they
became more of a crossover todifferent genres than staying
pigeonholed into the hardcorehip-hop Right pigeonhole into
the, you know, to the hardcorehip hop.

Speaker 2 (01:56:09):
Right, right, and you know, oh, go ahead bro.

Speaker 3 (01:56:14):
No, no, no, I'm saying it's changed everything
for them.

Speaker 2 (01:56:17):
Yeah, and you know, when I was looking at the
matchups for if we was going todo the song, the song versus
that's what kind of make it alittle bit difficult, right,
because, to your point, mobpretty much stayed in the same
wheelhouse, outkast waseverywhere.
You know, all over the placethey was hitting.
You know different types ofmusic A lot of soul, a lot of

(01:56:39):
funk, you know even boom bap.
You know, down like they washitting a lot of different
pockets with their songs, even,you know, crossing over to the
pop crowd.
So matching up a lot of thesongs is difficult because, mobb
Deep, you know what you'regoing to get, you know what I
mean.
It's like no frills, but youknow, still, still, yet they two

(01:57:02):
are the greatest duos we everhad.
That B2, number one, number two, um, as far as duos are
concerned, um, regardless ofwhat order you have, man, I
think they're the number one andnumber two, uh, duos that we
have a hip-hop agree, agree,agree.

Speaker 3 (01:57:19):
Um, you're mad max.
I see your chat.
You're super chat.
We appreciate you, man.
In a nutshell, mad max issaying that something about the
sahara.
I don't even know what's goingon here, but mad max, we got you
man.
We appreciate you man.

Speaker 2 (01:57:36):
Mad max is wild man but but yo real quick man.
I.
I really like it when you umtalk about your stories when you
was over in japan, because Iuse that as kind of like a
litmus test for how popping some, what something was and how
much reach it had, like if youwas over there and it was like
hitting you over there, you knowwhat I mean then that's like a

(01:58:00):
big expansive type of reach.
That's like some next levelstuff.

Speaker 3 (01:58:05):
Absolutely, because, again, I can acknowledge that,
like I told you, being overseasJapan, australia, wherever I can
acknowledge in the early 2000s,where the DJ would do a
dedicated New York set, it waslike a dedicated New York set
and Mobb Deep was part of that.
He always started withShipwrecked Ones, part 2.
Had to part of that.

(01:58:26):
They always started with SugarBones, part 2.
For whatever reason, no matterwhat the DJ, who he was, it was
always starting off with MobbDeep.
But in the regular set, in thatregular set, we was hearing a
lot, a lot, a lot of cats.
Violence of Baghdad was playingeverywhere, in every club

(01:58:47):
overseas, no matter where wewent.
We'd get off the plane and sawyou here and it was crazy and I
didn't know what they weretalking about.
Like don't put that thing out,let's just ready to bang Bombs.
I'm like what is he talkingabout?
I don't even know.
I don't even know what thatmeans, but they were going crazy
over it, man.

Speaker 2 (01:59:04):
You got to be fair, bro, because Ghostface said a
lot of shit.
You ain't know what it meanseither, but you were saying it
was dope Alec I did.

Speaker 3 (01:59:11):
When he said I want a ravioli bass, I'm like, yeah, I
think I can put that together.
I knew what that meant though Iknow Right, I can piece that
together when he said, don't putthat thing out, are you talking
about?
I didn't even know what itmeant.
So still to this day, I stilldon't know what it means.
I don't know what it means.

(01:59:31):
I was fighting for Baghdad, soI don't even know what is going
on.
But the point is people weren't.
They didn't care about that.
They cared about the sonics,because it was something like I
told you before.
We talked about it behind thescenes.
You can judge music in thisreach based on how it rang off.

(01:59:52):
In a club, in places like that,because you're getting
everybody it was songs that Icould not stand coming up.
But again you're overseas,you're in a different state,
you're in a different, you knowdifferent coasts, and they play
some of these songs in the club.
I'm like it's not too bad, it'snot that bad.
When they start playing, masterP Mick can say in the club it

(02:00:15):
don't sound that bad, but in thecar it sounded like trash, I
couldn't stand it.
But in the club it was likeokay, different element, I get
it Different element, and Ithink that's what Cass was able

(02:00:43):
to do.
They were able to continue totranscend through the years in
different environments, whereaswith Mobb Deep it became a relic
.
They became relics of a soundthat they have architected in
the early 90s.
It's hard to transfer thatenergy across a country.
Um, that didn't you know.
That don't know about thembeing architects in in new york.

Speaker 2 (02:00:54):
Hip-hop in the golden era of hip-hop okay, well, to
kind of kind of pivot that youtalked about.
You know, being over japan,they do a new york set.
So how did that translate?
Um, you know your big timewu-tang fan and Wu heavily
embraces, like Chinese andJapanese, cultures.
So how did they receive Wu overthere?
Were they a big staple in Japan?

Speaker 3 (02:01:17):
They were.
But again, you know you'retalking about Circa.
I was there 2000.
I got the April of 2000 and Iwas there for that whole year.
So that's a little.

Speaker 2 (02:01:25):
Wu decline time Like.
Supreme and W's fire Like let'snot get it twisted, W's dope.

Speaker 3 (02:01:32):
But they weren't playing W like that.
I remember them playing.
I remember listening to moreMystical at that time than
Wu-Tang in Japan, Like Danger,Like the joint with Hema
Pharrell.
I remember that that was goingcrazy back then.

Speaker 2 (02:01:51):
Well, that kind of speaks to you and Koo's point,
both at the time, because that'snot in New York, but a lot of
Southern music was breakingthrough because the quality was
picking up.
So it was just like a timingthing.
Once Wu-Tang was at the Zenithand they were banned, you know,

(02:02:13):
to Coop's point, somebody had tofill that void and then the
Southern artists were steppingup and then once they broke
through to New York, then theSouthern artists became more
global, if that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (02:02:27):
It does.
It does because it was peoplewant to dance.
I think Riz even mentioned inthe interview he was like people
wanted to start, they wanted todance, they didn't want to get
the mental stimulation anymore.
We were past the stimulation erawe were listening to Woo, mob,
nas, big Jay you know, even Jayswitched it up and had more club
music because people wanted todance when they shake a tail

(02:02:49):
feather, you don't want to, youknow they don't want to to get
the mental stimulation going.
And I think because of that,you know you couple that with
the resurgence or a surgence ofnot really a resurgence of the
South at that time, theresurgence of the South in the
early 2000s, and you knowOutKast was at the forefront of

(02:03:09):
that.
You don't, I don't think youget that true resurgence without
OutKast pushing the boundaries.

Speaker 2 (02:03:15):
You don't.
You don't Because I think theother side of that coin is Goody
Mob and Goody Mob never brokethrough on the level that
OutKast did Correct, and I thinkGoody Mob, quality wise-wise,
was neck and neck with Outkastat their peak.

Speaker 3 (02:03:30):
Facts, facts.
But they just, they still feltlike the B.
I mean no disrespect and it'sall family.
Right To me, they felt like the.
You know, like in Marvel.
You know, you got the big dogsIron man Thor, captain America.
They got the big dogs, iron manThor, Captain America, they got
the outer world stuff.
And then you got Daredevil,spider-man.

Speaker 2 (02:03:53):
They were the ground level heroes.

Speaker 3 (02:03:54):
Ground level heroes and that's how it felt sometimes
with Goody, and I think thatGoody was just as dope as
Outkast but it didn't have thegrandioso sound that Outkast got
Because, again, they didn'thave Andre Right.
They didn't have the grandiososound that Outkast got Because,
again, they didn't have AndreRight, they didn't have Andre
Because I was about to say thatbecause again they went from
Stankonia to doing the doublealbum.

(02:04:17):
You know, speak About Some LoveBelow and you're talking about
what?
2003?
When that album came out.
You know September 2003?
So you got September 2003.
So you got on Speak About SomeLove Below, where it was just
different.
I remember laughing likelaughing, laughing at you know

(02:04:40):
that album and listening to itlike literally laughing, and I
would stay by this.
I would stay.
She means Savannah, georgia,and a lot of my guys around me.
They were from a lot of themfrom Macon, stationed in
Savannah, georgia, and a lot ofmy guys around me.
They were from a lot of themfrom Macon and from Savannah.
Some was from Atlanta and theywere like giving me the manual
to understand what Speakerboxand Love Below really was, and I

(02:05:01):
appreciated it from that angle.

Speaker 2 (02:05:03):
Yeah, and I was already an OutKast fan of the
first four albums.
But I was listening toSpeakerbox a lot but I couldn't
get with the love below and thenit went until later.
So a lot of my friends incollege was like nah man, you
need?
22 years later, I'm stillwanting Andre to rap on a solo
album and that's never going tohappen.

Speaker 3 (02:05:33):
So I think he did good on his own on the Love
Below man Honestly like it was,yeah, it was a good album and I
remember appreciating it in realtime a little bit after real
time, just a little bit, becauseagain I'm around a bunch of
Southern guys.
I'm stationed in Savannah,georgia.
At this time I'm 23.
And I thought again.

(02:05:55):
It was humor to me at first,but then I started to realize,
like this is actually prettydope, it's different.
It was different, different,but again hip hop was shifting
so much it was changing.
Yes, it was like crazy man.
It was shifting like crazy.
We was like in, that was stillthe 50 Cent era, like heavy.
Right, that's the beginning ofthe 50 Cent era.

Speaker 2 (02:06:16):
Yeah, it was pretty much 04 before I came around
listening to.
You know I had heard the LoveBelow don't get it twisted, but
it's just like it was like 04before I was really embracing it
like that.
It was damn near a year laterbefore I like all right, let me
like really put my bias to aside, to the side, and give it

(02:06:36):
some pair of listens and then bythat time I'm loving the album.
I was digging it by then, butit took me a year to get there.
So you can't be early to theparty every time.

Speaker 3 (02:06:42):
A lot of times you end up being late, and that's
when I was late too but see, ag,you and I was, we were talking
about even going back to mobdivas like my infamous versus
hell on earth, and I waslistening to both my flight
today and I was like yo there'snot much separation between
infamous and hell on earth, andI can see why you would say that

(02:07:04):
hell on earth was better thanit's better than infamous.
But then I can see why I cansay the same thing on today and
tomorrow.
I don't feel that infamous isbetter than hell on earth, you
know I mean go ahead I'm sorry,go ahead, no, I was just gonna
say it depends on what you'relooking for.

Speaker 2 (02:07:22):
Like, I think hell on earth is more consistent, but
the infamous has higher highs.
So if you're basing it on likethe all-time you know, you know
kuso argument on here was likeum, where the all-time classic
songs on wu-tang forever to tothat point there's not that many

(02:07:42):
of those on hell on eartheither.
But just how the album plays isbetter than to me, better than
the Infamous, even though theInfamous has higher highs.
But I'm not going to jump outthe window and say Forever is
better than 36 Chambers, Iprefer it.
But I've always looked at thatalbum kind of like it was
written in Illmatic.
I know objectively that Illmaticis better than it was written,

(02:08:05):
but I prefer it wasitten becauseof his growth and expansion on
the album.
So with Woo Forever it's thesame thing.
It's growth and expansion inthe group and a more grandiose
sound.
That's why I prefer Woo Forever, although I know in my mind
that 36 Chambers is superior.
Same thing here, hell on Earth.
It's growth with Havoc'sproduction and its growth with

(02:08:30):
Prodigy Rhyme.
And he's a better emcee on Hellon Earth.
So what my ears tell me is thatthis is the.
You know I prefer this projectover the Infamous because both
of the active members are betterat what they do.
But the Infamous, if you'relooking for all time great
classic songs in the higherhighs, then I totally understand
if you put that high.

Speaker 3 (02:08:52):
Yes, the Infamous to me has magical moments.
that we haven't seen Lightningin a bottle, yeah, Lightning in
a bottle, Right.
So it gives you a differenttype of type of hit, that type
of adrenaline type of hit.
That type of adrenaline Becauseeven Havoc you can tell Havoc
was probably imitating a littlebit of Nas at that time in the

(02:09:14):
way that he was coming off.
Because I listened to Havoc alot this week Just because I
wanted to do my bar seminar onthat and I wanted to listen.
I'm like man, he sound a lotlike he was really trying to
follow that blueprint of Nas.
Who better to follow.

(02:09:34):
Who better to follow?
Whereas you can tell, P becamemore unorthodox when he got to
Hell on Earth.
Yep, P on Infamous was rapping,rapping.
P on Hell on Earth becameunorthodox, but he was
comfortable.
He's like a left-handed fighterrapping.
He on Hell on Earth becameunorthodox, but he was
comfortable.

Speaker 2 (02:09:49):
He's like a left-handed fighter man.
Yes.

Speaker 3 (02:09:54):
He was confident.
He had a different confidencelevel when he got to Hell on
Earth.
You could think about Hell onEarth was probably made.
The exception was probably what95 going into 96, and Infamous
was 93 going into 95.
So you can see the growth pause.

Speaker 2 (02:10:13):
Nah, I think Infamous was 94 going into 95, because
93, that would be the wholejuvenile hell era.
They had an exponential leap in90.
93 going into 94.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:10:31):
Double just put in the chat.
He said P-Stop rhyming at somepoint.
Yeah, he did.
I mean I think that as he gotwe always talk about it when he
got to HNIC.
I think after Murder Music thatwas P's probably.
God bless the dead, that wasprobably P's zenith, I think
after Murder Music that was P'sprobably.
You know, god Bless the Dead,that was probably P's zenith man

(02:10:51):
on Murder Music, I still gotHell on.

Speaker 2 (02:10:56):
Earth though, but I feel what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (02:10:58):
Hell on Earth is give me.
I'm talking about, like, as faras, like you know, just staying
on top of that lyrical mountainbecause you're talking about
Quiet Storm.
You know where he just leftEarth?
On Quiet Storm he did.
It might be the main reason whythat album went platinum
because of that verse.
Yes, to be honest, Absolutely,it was everywhere, absolutely,

(02:11:22):
and the anticipation of his solowas shortly after that.
But the thing about it is, bythe time he got to HNIC,
anticipation of his solo waslike shortly after that, um, but
the thing about it is, by thetime he got to H and I see he
abandoned all of that.
Yes, he abandoned all of that.

Speaker 2 (02:11:36):
And then it was totally gone on infamy, like
totally gone.

Speaker 3 (02:11:40):
I think he was distracted, though.
I think he was with you knowJay and trying to find another.
Yeah, um, I think by that timethey were chasing a hit because,
again, music was you got Jay onone side, you got Nas on the
other side with the StrongerBuild.
That's a lot to deal with.

Speaker 2 (02:11:58):
Reaching out to 112 for a single, which is not their
normal MO.

Speaker 3 (02:12:05):
Totally different.
Totally different To your pointdouble.
Yeah, he did took a step back,took a few steps back.
But again, like we said, goingback to the original point, man,
we can close this thing up.
You know, both came out hot red, both, both our groups came out
on fire, on fire fire, and theystarted doing different things.

(02:12:29):
They started going differentpaths and trying to find a new
voice in rap and find a newrhythm in rap and they gave the
people what they all signed upfor in the very beginning.
But it benefited Cass more thanit benefited Mob.

Speaker 2 (02:12:45):
Yes, Two of the greatest man, two of the
greatest man, two of thegreatest, indeed, indeed.
You want to do the press playjoint and close it out.

Speaker 3 (02:12:55):
Yeah, you can.

Speaker 2 (02:12:58):
No doubt man.
What's Homie's name again?
I forgot it, it's Akarsh.

Speaker 3 (02:13:05):
Akarsh, akarsh yo, if you're watching Akash Akash.

Speaker 2 (02:13:10):
Akash yo, if you're watching, you know this is for
you.
I wanted to put some respect onyour request, man.
We appreciate you tuning in allthe way from India.
Man, like out of you know, thethree of us, I'm the biggest
Eminem fan on the panel.
So for the press play, I wantedto do that by honoring what my
10 favorite m&m tracks are.

(02:13:30):
This may not necessarily be alist of what is the best, but
you know, for my fandom, this ismy 10 favorite m&m tracks for
the press play.
So, um, to start it off, number10, I'm going to count down
from 10 to 1.
Number 10, I got Soldier offthe Eminem show and for me,

(02:13:52):
music marks time right Like this.
This is back in 2002.
We're coming off of, you know,his feature.
His buzz was at an all timehigh, like, not just in, you
know, white America and the popcircles, not just white America

(02:14:13):
and the pop circles, but the hiphop circles as well.
You know, cause, in the yearbefore he had the dead wrong
feature verse and he also had,you know, renegade after that.
So people who weren't payingattention before, you know, the
real hip hop heads was like yo,eminem can rap, rap.
He's like rapping next to Bigeven though Big was deceased,

(02:14:36):
you know and then rapping nextto Jay and that sort of thing.
So, um, I remember I was incollege and in the dorms they
had like a downstairs like umcomputer lab and resource center
, and I remember one of myhomies, um, was in the resource
center and I was getting readyto jet to class and then he had
some headphones on.
He was like yo, come here, comehere.

(02:14:57):
You know, I'm saying and I'mlike about to be late for class
and then I go in the resourcecenter and this was when, uh,
like kaza was out to downloadhim psych, that was real popular
at the time.
He was this was a week beforethe album came out the Eminem
show.
He was like yo, the Eminem leak, and I was like word.
He was like yeah, man, comelisten to this.
And he was listening to thewhole album but was playing

(02:15:21):
soldier over and over andrunning it back and I was like
back and I was like listen to it.
And everybody was going crazylike yo, if this is the bag that
he's going to be in on thisalbum, this album is about to be
crazy.
So that when I hear that songit takes me back to that memory
because that was the first songI heard off the album and we
just kept running it back likegoing crazy and and I never did

(02:15:42):
go to class for the record, wejust stayed in the you know
saying the library um in thecomputer lab and listened to the
album that leaked out,downloaded it off kaza.
So that's my number 10, tracknumber nine guilty conscious uh
with uh featuring dr dre off theslim shady lp.
Um, I mean, what can I say?

(02:16:04):
That was my buy-in to, to, toEminem as a rapper.
Like I said, I wasn't with thewhole.
My name is gimmick and all that.
But you know, once I heardGuilty Conscious and saw the
video for him and Drake goingback and forth and the whole
concept and everything, I waslike, dude, it's real, he's,
like you know, a super doperapper.
So I've always, you know, hadthat in my top 10 Eminem songs

(02:16:31):
rapper.
So I've always, you know, hadthat in my top 10 Eminem songs.
Number eight I got, say what youSay also off the Eminem show
that when we talk about disstracks, that song is not talked
about enough because Eminem isgoing at Cannabis and Dr Dre is
going at Jermaine Dupri, oddlyenough, on that record and I
think it's a hard diss trackNobody wants to hear producers
battle, but you know it is whatit is, but I thought that was

(02:16:52):
one of the standout records onthat album and I think the
beat's hard.
So Say what you Say has alwaysbeen one of my favorite Eminem
songs and you know Em was goingat Cannabis so I think he got
that one.
But Cannabis was like was likeyou know, overseas in the
military or something aroundthat time.
So he ain't really had time torespond.

(02:17:13):
Yeah, but um number seven, Ihave superman also off the
eminem show.
Superman is crazy because youknow the the um common narrative
now on twitter is nobody playseminem in hood or whatever you
know.
But even back then Eminemdidn't have a quote, unquote
club banger per se, right.

(02:17:33):
So this was the first jointthat he came with that was
really circulating and poppingin the clubs, you know in the
like black music clubs, and Ijust love the record man, it's
like catchy and just everythingabout it.
That was his first realcertified, like you know, club
banger and joint.
That got a whole lot of youknow, good spin on black radio.

(02:17:54):
So, love superman.
That's my number seven.
Number six I got 3 am from theuh relapse album.
Um, nothing more to say aboutthis than his flow pattern
cadence word likes that.
He's putting together Rhymeschemes is just insane on this
record and, like a lot of people, didn't like the accents that

(02:18:15):
he was using, like he was, youknow, playing a part or a role
or whatever on this album.
But when he was in a flowpocket like this I kind of
looked past that and didn't care.
Man 3am, he's going insane, youknow, talking about being, you
know um a murderer who escaped apsych ward on that on that
track.
So it's a dope joint.
Um.

(02:18:36):
Number five I got uh the way Iam.
This uh is from the marshallmathis lp.
Um and you I.
This is the record that reallylet me know that Eminem was
ahead.
Taking a Rakim bar, you know,from uh, as the rhyme goes on,
I'm the R, the A to the K, I am,and if it wasn't, then why

(02:18:58):
would I say I am like him takingthat and formatting that to his
hook.
On the way I am, I was like yo.
He's really a student of theculture.
He's like, you know, takingstuff from one of our greats and
crafting it into a dope song,and the flow pattern that he
used in that and in the cadencewas just sick man.

(02:19:20):
That's one of his most iconicsongs and I have that number
five on my list.
Number four is Stand, also offthe marshall mathis lp.
Stand is one of the beststorytelling tracks ever in
hip-hop history.
Point blank period and um.
I think that song is liketimeless and it's eminem's, you

(02:19:42):
know, claim to fame.
I think that arguably could behis um best song at the end of
the day.
But as far as favorites, it'snumber four on my list.
But it's um.
The writing on there isimpeccable.
The way he tells that story, um.
So, yeah, number three I gottalose yourself, lose yourself.

(02:20:04):
You know, big anthemic song.
It was perfect for the superbowl when, uh, when Eminem was
up there with Dr Dre.
Just a huge record thatencapsulates that feeling of
being an MC Like, becausebetween me, sean and Coop, we've
all attempted rapping at somepoint, you know what I mean and

(02:20:26):
when you're on stage and you gotto deliver those rhymes in
front of people, this songreally captures the essence of
that moment, the like, stagefright, the nerves and
everything about that.
And just writing from thatperspective is not something
that really anybody has wrotefrom before.
Because Because rap is realbraggadocio, you know what I'm

(02:20:49):
saying.
So it's like a lot of peopleare not going to tell that side
of it and, granted, it's for amovie, so it's kind of
describing the emotions he wasfeeling in the movie.
But you know it's a lot oftruth to the song as well.
You know what I mean Exposingthat vulnerability of you, know
the nerves and stage fright whenyou go up in front of people.
Because you know, I know I feltthat the first time I performed

(02:21:12):
in front of people.
So this, this captures thatmoment, you know, and it's real
motivational.
Number two I got Till I Collapseoff the Eminem show.
This is my fourth record.
I got in my top ten off theEminem show.
As you can tell, that's myfavorite Eminem album.
Love that album.
I think it's a classic.
But Till I Collapse, nate Doggfeature.

(02:21:32):
Rest in peace to Nate Dogg.
This song just bangs man.
This song goes and Eminem'srapping like a demon, like going
crazy on here.
This, infamously, is the songwhere he names his top 10
rappers and puts himself um inthe ranking with those rappers
and um, I just think this is oneof his best uh bar seminars, if

(02:21:53):
you will.
As far as like his bar work onthe on the record and it gets
you hype.
If you go work out in the gym,this is a song that needs to be
in your gym playlist for realyou might throw some extra
weight.
Yo shout out to iron minds.
Bro Bro said in our Discord hewas curling like 185-pound
dumbbells, like that's insane hebe lying Iron.

Speaker 3 (02:22:14):
Myers be lying, iron Myers be lying, yeah, nah, man.

Speaker 2 (02:22:20):
I seen bro's profile pic.
Bro, like it's just.
I mean, nah, I said thatDiscord, bro, like dude, you
know what I'm saying.
I mean, I saw that discord, bro, Like dude, you know what I'm
saying.
He curled into 185.
When we blow up, I'm going tohire him as my bodyguard.

Speaker 3 (02:22:33):
Relax on that, watching the man Pull a five
pick on me.
Relax on that.

Speaker 2 (02:22:38):
I get it, you get to stop at the curl thing.
Yo shout out to Iram, man Shoutout to Iram for real.
Yeah, yeah, one of the familymembers in our discord man, Good
dude Number one, my favorite,my favorite Eminem song of all
time is Rabbit Run.
I actually hear Coop referencethis song a lot too.

(02:22:58):
I don't know if it's hisfavorite, but he references a
lot.
The way Eminem is rapping onthis song is insane, man.
And once again he's capturingthat emotion of being a rapper
and having writer's block.
You know what I mean Trying toreally craft a song and then

(02:23:19):
writer's block is getting inyour way and you're trying to
fight through that.
And he's describing that inreal time.
And I love this record and even,ironically, nas' Book of Rhymes
song off God's Son was outaround this same time, so it was
kind of those two songs weretwo sides of the same coin.

(02:23:40):
You know what I mean and I justlove this song.
The way he's rapping on here.
He even has the added effectslike crumbling up the paper when
it's not good enough, throwingit away.
Like you know, the soundeffects in there is just really
dope and to me this is Eminem'smagnum opus song for me is
Rabbit Run.
So that's my press play.

(02:24:02):
Shout out to homie from Indiathat wanted us to talk about
Eminem a little bit more.
So it was my pleasure to dothat.
Eminem is just outside of mytop five.
He's six on my all time list.
So um thought it would just beappropriate to wax poetic about
Eminem.
You know what I'm saying Forour international fan.

Speaker 3 (02:24:21):
You know again, shout out to Homie man.
We do get some fan mail fromtime to time, whether it's on
our email or whether it's viathe Apple.
So thank you guys for whodownload us on Apple, who
download us on Spotify as well.
We appreciate that love andsupport.
Shout out to the Discord.

(02:24:42):
The Discord, the dopest Discordout there in the hip hop
universe.
They keep it going throughoutthe entire day.
They're talking about hip-hop.
Sometimes it gets crazy.
Y'all be killing me at work,man.
It's over, man, I can't evenkeep up.
But they talk about everythingfrom hip-hop, movies, whatever,

(02:25:03):
life, everything.
So shout-out to those guys.
Shout-out to the homie Trife,trife, diesel Trife, boogie,
trife, the engineer, theengineer.
You know Trife don't like himand them, so he wasn't a fan of
this segment so he probablylogged off.
But shout out to Trife, Iwouldn't log off too.
I ain't going to lie but yeah,shout out to L man LP.

(02:25:28):
Lp is Queens, get the Money.
We got some real thorough heads, man.
We got some real thorough onesin the Discord that we converse
with, even on the side, and LPis definitely one of those man.
We talk a lot and we talk aboutlife and hip-hop a lot.
Really thorough dude, man,really thorough dude.
Shout out to LB.

(02:25:49):
Lb was sick.
Normally LB is in the chatcausing hell, but LB is trying
to get over.
You know some sniffles, soshout out to LB.
Always support the crew.

Speaker 2 (02:26:01):
Get well soon.

Speaker 3 (02:26:01):
LB, absolutely.
Shout out to the Jackron, theJackron.
Shout out to the Jackron, theJackron.
Shout out to the Jackron, thewild man.
Shout out to Jackron.
I see you.
Trife my bad.
I thought you blanked out onthe M&M joint.
Trife my bad, because I wantedto.
I actually was thinking aboutsomething.
I was vomiting my head.

(02:26:22):
That was crazy disrespectful.
Shout out to CLF, alwayspopping up in the chat.
That's crazy Disrespectful.
Yeah, shout out to CLF Alwayspopping up in a chat.
You know, I mean shout out toDouble.

Speaker 2 (02:26:41):
Double is crazy.
Double is a crazy dude Doubleis international.

Speaker 3 (02:26:42):
He's out in Australia .
Man.
Shout out to Double, australia.
Double.
Shout out to Australia.
And shout out to Double.
You, double.
Shout out to Australia.
Shout out to Double.
Yo.
Shout out to our executiveproducer.
Man Shout out to Andrew.
Andrew, behind the scenes doinga lot visuals.
Honestly, andrew is like theglue to the crew.
The three of us, we're wild man, we're wild barbarians out here

(02:27:07):
.
We have strong opinions, strongthoughts, passionate thoughts,
passionate opinions.
But it's all brotherly love.
Shout out to Coop, we'll gethim back.
He all right, he good, he good.

Speaker 2 (02:27:21):
That's what we do.
My bad, coop, my bad.

Speaker 3 (02:27:25):
Yeah, AG is a prick.
I deal with him all the time.

Speaker 2 (02:27:29):
Listen, I saw where you said that in the Discord
earlier today.

Speaker 3 (02:27:32):
You are, man, you go too far.
I told you that earlier.
I'm like dude, I'm working, I'mon a flight and you're talking
crazy.
I'm like yo dude been talkingcrazy to me all day.
I don't know man, I'm not goingto say nothing.
I'm not going to repeat thatright now.
Thank you, we need therapy.
Shout out to LT ADM Exposure.
Shout out to.

Speaker 2 (02:27:52):
LT.

Speaker 3 (02:27:52):
We're going to drop an actual promo tonight with
regards to Benny and his team,bsl, so shout out to those guys
as well.
You guys will see that on thesocials tonight.
We got some stuff cooking.
We got some more things comingup.
We appreciate y'all hopping ontonight.
You could be anywhere, but youcan rock with us.
We have some good viewership ona great Thursday night.

(02:28:18):
We're going to start curatingsome more things.
Don't forget to check outMirror Music.
They had a phenomenal show onTuesday night and if you guys
get a chance, go back and take alook at that.
I'll drop the link in theDiscord again.
If you haven't dropped out inour Discord, follow us on
Twitter, follow us on YouTube,follow us on Facebook and
definitely jump in our Discord.

(02:28:38):
We release a lot of informationin there as well.
We talk to the people.
We talk about hip-hop.
It's a strong community overthere and love is love.
Ag.
Anything you want to say beforewe get out of here?
Yeah, that's mad Max.
Shout out to crazy mad Max,yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:28:52):
Shout out Max.
Rest in peace to Roberta Flackand Miss Wallace, mother of the
legendary, notorious BIGChristopher Wallace.

Speaker 3 (02:29:03):
Rest in peace to those lovely ladies Beyond Above
Media.
No, discord does not cost athing, it is free.
I would drop the link in herereal quick and before we log off
, so you guys can get access tothe Discord.

(02:29:23):
Give me one second.
Give me one second.
Let me log in this other wayand I'll get it to you guys.

Speaker 2 (02:29:29):
That's the place to be man.
Our Discord group's alwayspopping in Funny conversations,
insightful hip-hop combosEverything is in there.

Speaker 3 (02:29:41):
Give me one second.
Give me one second.
Let me put it in.

Speaker 2 (02:29:54):
KG what you got for the people before we get out of
here.
Yeah, man, that's it.
Man, just rest in peace to thelovely ladies, uh, miss wallace
and roberta flack.
Man, it was sad news to hearthose ladies go, you know, but
to send them a rest of peace, Iis.
You know it's.
It's kind of somber.
We had every show that we have.
More often than not we'resaying rest in peace to somebody
in our black culture and musicor somebody important for us.

(02:30:18):
So hopefully we can have astreak of shows where we don't
have to do that at the end topay our respects, gene Hackman I
just saw that at the end.

Speaker 3 (02:30:29):
To pay our respects.

Speaker 2 (02:30:29):
Even Gene.

Speaker 3 (02:30:29):
Hackman.
I just saw that, Him and hisfamily man, His wife and his dog
.
Sad times man.
Sad times, but again, weappreciate y'all to come under
the hip-hop umbrella with us androck away.
Hip-hop talks, we'll see y'allsoon.
We'll see y'all soon.
And shout out to everybody.
Shout out to all the podcasts.
Everybody got that, whetherit's a large podcast, small

(02:30:51):
podcast.
Shout out to everybody.
Competition breeds champions.
Let's get it, we out Peace.

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