Should OGs Make Follow-Ups to Classics? Plus Cam/Mase/Elliott Wilson, Hit-Boy, and MORE!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
🎵outro music plays🎵.
Happy New Year, hip-hop heads.

(00:42):
Welcome to Hip-Hop Talks.
I did that without stuttering.
I feel great.
Happy New Year, hip-hop heads.
Welcome to Hip-Hop Talks.
Ah, I did that withoutstuttering.
I feel great.
Happy New Year, motherfuckers.
That's right.
Well, hold on, hold on.
Can y'all see what I'm wearing?
Right quick.
Can y'all see what I'm wearing?
Can I show you what I'm wearing?
Yeah, you know, I'm the onlyguy in Georgia like this, really
.
But what is that Notre thisreally?

(01:06):
What is that Notre Dame, sirFighting Irish?
Oh yeah, why they beat thebrakes off Georgia.
First of all, somebody that's aCowboys fan.
You really need to watch yourmouth.
You really, really, really needto watch your mouth as a Cowboys
fan.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
My question to you guys, I support the Irish.
You know what I'm saying.
My girl, she graduated fromNotre Dame, so I support the
Irish.
I could rock with that.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
That sounds actually just like your Bill Cosby number
23 sweater-wearing ass.
It sounds like you.
When's the last time somebodyheld Georgia to 10 points,
though y'all that is crazy, thatis crazy.
It's not even that they beatthem.
It's like they held them to 10points When's the last time
somebody held Georgia to 10points, Like for real.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
It's been years.
It's been years.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Can we win the national championship?
Ohio State looks like they'reabout to whip everybody's ass
they can, they play like that,they can.
Yeah, if Ohio State plays theirA game, everybody's going home.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Everybody's going home.
Yeah, they had George andnumber.
Nothing you can do about that.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
I'm a Michigan guy.
Y'all ain't gonna get mestarted over here about Ohio.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
State.
I mean, ohio State is my popsteam.
Man, I'm gonna tell you what hestarting to hear about Ohio
State.
I mean, ohio State is my pop'steam and I'm going to tell you
what you know.
He's not the type of guy tocall.
But I remember one day hecalled me in 2022, and it's
after Ohio State got done,whooping Notre Dame's ass.
And what I would really like isto have a championship game

(02:41):
where Ohio State and Notre Dameare playing.
And you know, my father isgetting a little bit older and
up there in years and there'snothing more that I would like
to do than to talk straight shitto him and whoop Ohio state
path.
I would love that for me.
I would love that for me.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
That'd be crazy.
That is crazy Cool.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
I'm happy with anybody being Ohio State, so I'm
with you.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
You want to know where I get my petty from?
Go talk to him.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
I can see that All right.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
We got a couple super chats already as we get started
with this New Year edition.
Gentlemen Queens, get the money.
Happy New Year, gentlemen.
007 in the house.
Double O, what up CJ Kidd witha dub.
Start off 2025.
Good day, fellas.
Happy New Year.
There's a lot going on.
Joey.
Gone at Dot and the West.
Lord Jamar address, theHispanic inclusion on the

(03:37):
Elephant and Uncle Murders 2024wrap-up.
Can't wait to see your insight.
Ill Magic with the 199.
Happy New Year, fellas.
Peace, Ill Magic.
So, fellas, where we want tokind of slide to next, you want
to talk about the Joey, you wantto talk about the hit.
Where are we going?

(03:57):
How are you feeling?
Click like share, subscribe tous.
We are closely approaching2,000 followers.
We do over 2,000 views all thetime, but if you don't click
like share and subscribe to be apart of this tribe, yeah, run
the numbers up.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
This is episode 50.
This is a milestone, so in partof me I'm a little under the
weather.
But yeah, run those numbers up.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, no doubt, no doubt, no doubt.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Let's start with hit boy.
Okay, ag, I'm gonna let you goahead and kick it off.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
Tell me what you think about the new hit oh yeah
letter, letter to my mentors.
You know I'm saying hit boy isalways presenting himself as a
humble guy in the industry man,and we talked about this a
little bit on the last episode.
But I think that this is atrack that everybody needs to
check out because you know I'm a, you know I'm a big person who,

(04:53):
uh, who subscribes to pay anhomage, you know, to people that
helped you along the way, andin our culture that's something
you don't see very often.
You know what I'm saying Catsbe too prideful to give homage
to the people that paved the wayfor them, um, to be where
they're at.
So you know I'm thankful thathip boy, you know, is not afraid
to do that and put out a track,you know, showing love to polo,

(05:14):
don kanye nas, amongst others,you know, and it's a dope track,
you know I'm saying shout outto hip boy.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
No, no, I love it, man.
I love it anytime you can payhomage to those who help you get
to where you are.
To me, that's just one of themost humble things you can do.
Hip boy is a humble guy anyhow.
You know the stories about himand Kanye and what happened
there and some of the falloutthere.
But the fact that he stillreached back to show love and

(05:44):
respect to what Kanye and JV didfor his career Of course it was
an extension of what he talkedabout with Nas and just that
whole run that they had togetherand just showing respect to all
of that, that just to me.
I love that kind of stuff, man,because sometimes you've got to
show respect to those who helpyou along the way, regardless of
what.

(06:04):
And I love that kind of stuff,man, because sometimes you've
got to show respect to those whohelp you along the way,
regardless of what.
And I love it.
It's a great album, a greatsong and also a great, great,
great, great video.
Love the visuals that he puttogether, love it, nice touch.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Y'all done.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, here comes Mr Hater of 2025, the reigning
champ, the reigning champ.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
Did I win, did I?

Speaker 2 (06:31):
win.
Yeah, you did.
You did by a landslide Day, oneLandslide.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well, nothing like a repeat champion.
I like the record.
It's good.
Three years in a row Right,triple crown numbers, it's good.
Right, triple crown numbers,it's good.
It's just good, though, guys.
I mean all that waxing poeticthat y'all did.
Content was nice.
It was just good overall.
You're not gonna be playingthis record in 30 days.
It's good, though.

(06:59):
Good job by it.
No, I fuck with them, like.
It ain't even nothing personal.
I'm'm just going to continue tobe honest about what I hear.
It's cool, it's a good record.
I do like the video.
The video is dope.
I do agree with you, gentlemen,about the video.
I like you, sean.
I feel like people fromHit-Boy's generation are the

(07:19):
last generation to really payhomage.
I do feel like it's cool thathe is paying homage on here.
So that's what I'm saying.
It's just good, though it's inrotation right now.
I don't know how long it'sgoing to be in rotation, though.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
But I mean, we don't know if it's attached to a
project.
So if it's a project that comeswith it, then there's a very
good chance we could belistening to it in 30 days.
But you know, we don't know ifit's attached to anything or if
he was just doing this as a gift.
You know what I'm saying aroundthe Christmas season to show
love to the people that helpedhim out.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Might be a Lucy.
Might be a Lucy.
Might be a project.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Let's see.
I think the attachment to it tome is the most important part.
You know what I mean importantpart.
You know what I mean.
It's just the sentiment of itis the most important part for
me.
That's why I appreciate thatsong more than anything else.
You don't see that much in theindustry anymore.
Everyone want to be self-made,Everybody want to have their own
voice and say they got herebecause of them and for him to

(08:18):
reach back like that.
To me, the sentiment is themost important part of it.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
And you know, sean, you alluded to it because you
know we got the recency biaswith the Nas thing.
So of course he's going to payhomage to Nas, but for him to go
back because he's not wherehe's at without Kanye and
although him and Kanye'srelationship isn't the best, you
know what I mean.
He he's showing an alternativedirection.
Like who was talking aboutbeing Mr Petty?
You know he.

(08:42):
You know being Mr Petty.
You know Hip-Boy could havevery well been Petty and been up
in interviews or what have youtalking spicy about Kanye?
But he chose another route toshow love and pay the respects
that Kanye helped you know whatI'm saying build his career.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
I mean, he has taken shots at Ye, though let's not
act like that, hasn't?

Speaker 3 (09:03):
happened.
I don't look at what he said astaking shots.
He just told the truth.
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
If it feel like an uppercut, it's usually because
you know what I'm saying.
Yeah, I mean, sometimes thetruth is a shot.
Truth hurts.
Yeah, I'm about to saysometimes the truth is a shot,
just like stereotypes sometimescan be true.
Not all stereotypes arenegative.

(09:31):
Some of the things actuallyoccur and are problematic in all
aspects of all communities.
People say Asians can't drive.
I was on Beaufort Highway acouple days ago.
Definitely getting flagged.
Definitely getting flagged.
Definitely getting flagged tostart the new year.
Great way to start.
Let's get to some more superchats.

(09:51):
Ill Magic with the 999.
Shout out to Crimes.
I heard on their live streamthat Nas and Dot are supposed to
drop something together thisyear.
Here we go with this to start.
This is what we're doing tostart the year.
This is what we're doing tostart the year.
This is what we're doing.
This is how you want to spendyour money, gentlemen.
Any comments?
Any comments?
Who said?

Speaker 3 (10:11):
that when did?

Speaker 1 (10:11):
he say he saw?

Speaker 3 (10:13):
that the source though Thought crimes.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
I don't even know what that is.
To be honest, there's so manydifferent sources out there, man
.
Everyone wants to be a sourceto something that's possibly
going to happen.
I won't believe it until I seeit.
If you ain't hear it from here,it don't exist.
I'll put it like thatEverybody's the plug now.
Everybody's the plug, everybody, everybody's the plug.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Everybody's the plug.
We're going to talk about thatlater too.
All right, CJ, the Kid with $18.
Appreciate you, CJ.
Also, Sean, I remember you saidthat didn't galvanize the West,
but most podcasters immediatelydisagree.
Like I said, perception versusreality, Perception greater than
reality Also get well, AG.
You know CJ's been a little bitspicier lately especially with

(11:04):
you two guys.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
I love it.
It sounds like something thatyou might say, though.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
CJ.
Shout out to CJ.
Cj on brand because he be likethat in the Discord.
Shout out to CJ man.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
He's on brand CJ is spicy in the Discord.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
You would know that if you were there.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Coop it's 2025.
I'm just saying you got a pointthough.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
I'm going to give the discord 16 bars every week, at
least.
At least 16 bars every week.
I think they're good, I thinkI'm good shit, coop once again
bars every week I think I'm goodShit.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
We got a few more Once again acting like he's a
celebrity doing the clubwalkthrough.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
All I'm saying is when I do come into Discord
they'll kick you out the backdoor.
No, play the belly intro, fool.
Play my belly intro.
Put it up on the big screen.
Put it up when I come through,anyway, img, img, butterfly

(12:14):
Spark, the $5 Super Chat.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
First Super Chat.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
What up Eng?

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Eng.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Eng, she's been with us since the stationhead days.
That's an OG right there, ohwhat up Eng Ing Ing.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
She's been with us since the stationhead days.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
That's an OG right there.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Oh, what up Ing?
Okay, okay, what up BK?
I see you.
Happy New Year everyone.
It's Ing, let's talk Brooklynboy, joey Badass.
It's competitive in this, buthe's talking to the public and
NYC as well, absolutely.
Ooh, we're about to get to thatnext.
As a matter of fact, hold on,let's get to the next couple of
super chats and then we need toslide to the Joey badass, unless

(12:49):
you all have some more poeticthat you like to wax about.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
The hip boy, nah let's get these super chats.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Show more love no more Corinthians and Leviticus.
Okay, do say Falco, $50 in thehouse.
Appreciate you, playa big 50.
Happy new year to everyoneAppreciate that, bro.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
Salute.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
And Trife One more time Happy new year, everybody
Congrats.
Try a milestone of one episodefor every track on the album.
I think that's album.
Only try it, man.
I think that's great.
How's the Muddy Waters 2staying with y'all?
Is the Muddy Waters 2 stayingwith y'all?

Speaker 3 (13:34):
Absolutely it's pretty dope.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
I'm not going to front Part of me.
Now it's too late, but part ofme would probably put it in my
top 20 now.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
I've been meaning to condense it and cut out tracks.
You know, just put like a firetrack list together the joints I
go back to.
But I haven't had a chance todo that yet.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Okay, yeah, I'd like to hear that when you do that.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
But we're going to talk about that album shortly,
anyway, so T2, my man look at T2.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
T2, my man look at T2 .
T2, crazy.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
I want to say shout out to Jack and your whack ass
list.
I gave you some shine onTwitter today, jack.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Your list fucking sucks nah, jack's list was solid
bro.
I rock with Jack's list overyours, coop man, it was solid.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
I stand with Jack, I stand with.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
Jack.
Well, here's the thing about it.
Nobody asked either one of you.
It was solid, okay, okay.
Well, here's the thing about it.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Nobody asked either one of you.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
I mean, your list is your list.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
You want to know what , as much as this year feels new
, this shit feels old to me.
All right, let's go to JoeyVictory cigar for the Fighting
irish who were about to beatohio state the national
championship.
In a couple weeks we'll seewhat happens.

(14:53):
So joey badass starts off theyear with the rulers back
freestyle.
Some of these uh bars appear tobe barbs aimed at Kendrick in
most people's eyes.
Sean, tell me how you'refeeling about it.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
I love it.
I love it.
Brooklyn stand up.
New York stand up.
I saw a lot of people talkingabout Joey.
The Discord was talking aboutit a lot.
I didn't get a chance to engagethe Discord like I wanted to,
but people need to understand.
Joey is a student of hip-hopand I don't think that people

(15:32):
really fully fully get the factthat Joey can spit too.
He can make music, he's awriter, he's a spitter.
He has every right to do whathe's doing setting the tone for
2025.
And we're going to talk aboutthis a little bit later as part
of our other topics andeverything.
But the fact that people aretrying to, you know, downgrade

(15:55):
who Joey really is is ridiculous.
Can't listen to social media,man.
You've got to go out there andlisten for yourself.
Don't fall into that trap.
Joey is a definite spitter, agreat writer.
He just doesn't have the nameappeal as some of his peers.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
I don't agree with that.
What do you mean when you saythat I don't want to say I don't
agree?
But can you elaborate upon thata little bit more for me?

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Because they don't talk about him in that pantheon
at all.
You don't hear Joey name pop upor circulate in that three or
him circulate in the top fiveamongst his peer group, his peer
group.
They're a little bit morelouder with regards to just the
love that they're getting fromreally social media than
anything else, and not so muchas the craft or the art Joey can

(16:44):
fit with the best of them.
Don't forget, joey was one ofthe ones who actually responded
back in the day when Kendrickdropped that verse.
He was one of the ones thatcame out there and again, a lot
of people they want to lean onto, what they want to lean on to
.
But I'm glad that he came out,I'm glad that he was able to put
some stuff out there.
He said what he said.
I hope he continues to move themomentum and let's see what

(17:06):
happens.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Let's run it up to.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Joey.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
AG.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
Just kind of piggybacking off what Sean said.
I think part of that, why he'snot mentioned with a lot of
those guys, is failure to remainin the public eye.
He's not a person who, you know, releases projects consistently
, you know what I mean.
He kind of drops and, you know,goes away and he never did
establish that major core fanbase.

(17:36):
You know, in my opinion, youknow what I mean To build up off
of that.
But he's definitely a spitter,one of the best ones.
I think guys like him and DaveEast, uh, you know, don't get
enough credit, but um, but yeah,he's repping hard from New York
and then we and how can youleave them out If you're talking
about some of the best New Yorkuh spitters right now currently

(17:57):
, um, you know, outside ofGriselda, you know, joey's one
of the first names that I wouldlike to think people would run
to, but he's been making wavesthis week, you know,
unfortunately, initially it wasfor a fight that was caught on
camera and then after that yougot this freestyle.
So really, joey's name's in thepublic, you know, more so than I

(18:19):
ever think it has been, period.
But I like this, I like thesport of it all.
Um, you know like you, but yougot to be willing to stand on
when you, when you say somethinglike that, you know I mean,
because, regardless if he wastalking to kendrick or
addressing the whole west coast,you know you got to be ready

(18:40):
for that response.
You know, I mean, and I thinkit's a call to arms for New York
rappers.
To step it up, you know, to theEast Coast.
So I think that.
But yeah, so you got a lot ofWest Coast people that you know
have something to say about it.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Hold on.
Is Joey top 10?
For his era, top 10 what Forhis era Top 10.
What For his era is he top 10?
Let's say, from when did Joeypop up About two?
He popped up the same time as,like, trav and Kendrick and Cole
and all them right Like he'saround.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
If you're just talking about spitters, I don't
see how he's not in the top 10.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
Right.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Of his class, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, so I mean.
So let's say we were like doinglike the last 15 years.
It's 2025.
Now let's go from 2010 to 2025.
We have your obvious choices,which I think are Kendrick,
Drake, Cole, I think, Future BigSean got to be in there.
I'm with Sean being in thereASAP, I'm putting.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
Joey over ASAP.
Mm-hmm, I'm putting Joey overASAP.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
I prefer ASAP, but I think Joey is the better rapper
of the two, even though I preferASAP.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
ASAP got more notoriety.
He got more star power, but barfor bar I'm taking Joey no no,
no, asap's bar work is strong.
No.
I'm saying but bar for bar,though I'm taking Joey.
Yeah, I'm taking Joey.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
I might take him barely, but that's what I'm
saying.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
No, that's not a landslide.
No, it's not a landslide.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
To be honest with you , for me it's like okay, so
let's say that would be 6-7.
Who else would you put inJoey's stratosphere other than
the guys that we mentioned fromhis era from?

Speaker 2 (20:30):
his class.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Crit.
Is he better than Crit to y'all?

Speaker 3 (20:33):
to me yes, but it's close it's not a separation
there okay, better than Crit,better than Wale to me.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yes to me.
Yes, Wale probably a me.
Yes To me.
Yes, Wale probably makes alittle bit of more crossover
songs, of course.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
But Wale belongs in that 10 as well.
But to the point I was gettingto everybody you named, it's
only two New Yorkers.
Yeah.
Wale is different.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Asap and Joey you know what I'm saying, and
neither one of them would makethe top five most likely, unless
you would put one of them aheadof Sean Is Joey better than.
Sean.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
No.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Right, I don't think he's better than Sean either.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
But I like what he's doing.
He's throwing his ring into thehat though because, like I said
, out of all those people, it'sonly ASAP and Joey really
representing the newer classfrom you know what I'm saying
the New York side of things.
So I mean, I like what he'sdoing, but you got to be ready
for the repercussions.
The same way that Kendrickdropped control, you got to

(21:35):
stand on that.
You know what I'm saying andall the responses that come with
it.
So Joey got to be ready for allthe stuff that's going to come
his way.
So you say that stuffintentionally and let's not get
it twisted.
It's an old J-Bar, you know whatI'm saying.
That really got people tight.
You know what I'm saying from22-2s.
So he knew what he was doingwhen he said that bar, because

(21:57):
he's like we're going to revisitthis again because this West
Coast you know what is happeningright now, in 2024, know going
into 25 they had the most albumson my top 20 list, and I didn't
include larry june's albumright, and when jay said it in
96, the west coast was runningit.
So it's like you know if theshoe fits where you know I'm

(22:19):
saying, I mean truthfully.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
I mean the, the west actually ran the better part of
the 90s until tupac got killedright.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
But you know I'm saying some, some people, they
it might rub them the wrong wayand joey, like he got to stand
on that I'm you know I'm notthis discrediting that at all.
Like you know, I'm saying forthe sport of it.
You know, like throw your ringin.
Let's put it this way, right,Nobody would even consider Joey
badass to like even take shotsat Kendrick, or even Because

(22:55):
when this whole Drake thinghappened, everybody's like well,
I'd like to see Kendrick in thegame.
I'd like to see Kendrick in theLupe, I'd like to see Kendrick
and this person, that person.
Nobody was even thinking aboutJoey, but Joey's like shit.
Nobody else will step up.
I'll step up.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, we like the move because it's a good rep
move.
It's a good competitive move.
He's dope enough and niceenough to take these shots into
box.
Overall, it's a good lookbecause this is what hip-hop is
competitively based on I don't.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
I don't think there's nothing behind it.
I don't think there's nothinglike really.
Uh, some people might thinkit's clout chasey.
Some people might think youknow I don't think.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
I think he's too big for this to be clout chasey
though right.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
That's what I'm saying.
I don't think he has an actualproblem with Kendrick or anybody
on the West for that matter,but I do think he's ready for
the sport of it because, like Isaid, joey is somebody who don't
really drop like that, or hedrop and he kind of disappear.
But if he feel a certain kindof way, if he's sitting on some
heat, if he's like saying likeyo, you know, I'm here and I'm
willing to take out whoever.

(24:01):
I'm here and I'm willing totake out whoever.
You know what I'm saying,because that the way Joey is
rapping is the way we thoughtCole was going to be.
That's how Cole's talk was forthese past few years that you
know.
That led to the apology no, no,no, no.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
Expound upon that a little bit more for me.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
Cole was rapping like anybody.
Come at, I'm tearing your headoff.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Okay.
Okay, so you're saying Joey'sapproach to this has been what
Cole's approach has been, whichis what has made people for the
better part of the last fewyears, even without a classic
album, until that, he's the bestMC based on you know the
versatility and array of barsthat he's been given on these
guest shots.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Well, cole got a better resume than Joey, because
people would tell you ForestHills Drive is a classic.
But he's doing.
You know, to me it's verysimilar.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
Oh, I mean for me, like Cole got three albums
better than Joey's best albumand we talk about Cole's catalog
and how it's not you know maybesometimes what we like it to be
his hip-hop purist, old heads,old head like whatever but I'm.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
But I'm glad you said that coop, because it's like
all right, even if cole does gotthree albums better than joey's
best output, that doesn't takeaway his ability to throw his
name out there into the ring forme.
I think anybody should be ableto challenge as a contender.
You might not be the number onecontender, you know what.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
I'm saying On the board no, no, no, no.
The fight need to getsanctioned.
Because I'm going to tell youwhat you know.
One of the most importantthings about the takeover is how
jay ended it, and it's when hesaid and for all y'all other
cats throwing shots at jiga,y'all only get half a boy y'all
talked about this morning whathe did, okay.

(25:57):
So the most beautiful thingabout the the takeover isn't
even the bars, because in thebars are just vicious, but the
perspective is.
The most stellar thing aboutthe takeover isn't even the bars
, because in the bars are justvicious, but the perspective is
the most stellar thing about thetakeover.
And when he said that heclassified himself and
declassified those other peoplelike that were like, like,
taking those shots.
It's like the only person thatreally deserves this smoke is

(26:19):
prodigy.
And just because I know whothis other guy is and I feel
like he might be falling off andhe might be having some
personal problems and I feellike I might be able to go ahead
and take him off the board.
Oh no, these dudes deservethese shots.
The rest of you dudes, the restof you dudes don't even deserve
shots.
Don't even think that we're onthe same level.
And that's why I was asking youif you think Joey is top 10,

(26:41):
because Kendrick's reply mightbe like hey, hey, don't play
yourself.
I don't think Kendrick willreply.
I just want to make sure we feellike Joey is nice enough, I'll
tell you this.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
One.
I don't think Kendrick replies.
I think somebody else from TDor somebody gets at him.
I don't think Kendrick comesout for Joey, but what I will.
I think Kendrick might treatJoey kind of like how Drake
treated Joe Button, but Joe wasgoing directly at Drake.
But here's the thing, though.
Remember how we, a couple ofweeks ago, we had all that talk
about like if Wayne and and, uh,dot went at it.

(27:17):
Say what I think that Joey'smore suited to go at Dot than
Wayne is why.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Because, like, because you know, because I mean
I'm saying that, because I meanwe all know that like Joey is
not Just like that type of talk.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
You know we say you talk heavy Like that type of
talk, like and no disrespect toWayne, I love Lil Wayne, he's
just outside of my top ten.
But if you're doing that typeof talk and you're addressing
somebody and you're reallytrying to take it there, like
Wayne, a lot of time a lot ofhis stuff is not coherent.
It's like not one coherentthought.

(27:54):
He's all over the place.
You know what I'm saying?
Joey, that's cool.
He's abstract.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
You're right.
Right, it's not an excuse,though, man.
You can't give that to him.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Because you can't come out and say that I'm the
greatest rapper of all time, I'mthis and I'm that, I'm one of
them, and then you're going tocome back and say that he's too
abstract.
No, just say what it is.
He's not talented enough, hedoesn't have enough ammo to
shine.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
I don't think it's talent.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
I don't think it's, I'm going to push back, Sean,
because your number two rapperof all time is Ghost.
How more abstract does it getother than Ghost?

Speaker 2 (28:28):
and Wayne, that's true I'm talking about.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
As far as battling, yeah, but do you see what I'm
saying?

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Like Joey would be more surgical and could dissect
things.
He's more of a classicfundamental battle rapper.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
Right, that's not Wayne.
Wayne would be all over theplace, man trying to like.
Go at somebody, bro Likeexactly, I mean he's not he's
not.
You used this opportunity to bedisrespectful.
I, before I said what I said.
I said no disrespect, and thenyou take my quote and use it as
disrespect.
That's great.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Use every opportunity possible to show disrespect.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
I have that disrespect when I say he doesn't
have that.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
You just said Wayne wasn't talented.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
I'm saying Not talented enough.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
You said he wasn't talented enough, but that's
still wrong.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
How is that wrong?

Speaker 1 (29:21):
Hold up, hold up you thought the disrespect was at an
8.
It's just at a 6.5.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Okay, so now we're going to do this.
Then you guys are saying you'rehip-hop heads.
What is one of the pillars ofhip-hop Storytelling?
What else?

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Lyrics.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
The battle right.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
No, no, no.
The whole culture itself isactually based off of battling
in a creative manner instead ofusing violence.
So battling is part of the corefundamental.
Actually, battling is the corefundamental of this culture,
even before the rapping occurred.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Even before the rapping occurred yes, so Wayne
cannot be exempt from that.
No, no.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
I'm not saying he's exempt.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Are we exempting him?

Speaker 3 (30:11):
No, sean, I wasn't saying that.
My thing with Wayne was it'snot that he's not talented
enough, I just don't think acoherent thought to craft a
track is not in his wheelhouse.
A lot of people don't talkabout Family Matters enough.
The way Drake dismantled likehe lost the battle so don't kill
me in the chat but the way hepicked apart every one of the

(30:34):
people he was beefing with hewent at like five or six people
in that record the way he pickedit apart over the course of the
Family Matters track I don'tthink Wayne is capable of doing
that.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
So that of the family matters track.
I don't think wayne is capableof doing that, so that means
okay, but hold on, hold on to doit, and that's not that's not
shitting on him at all, no, no,but you want to know what it's
limited.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Here's where.
Here's where.
Both of you, I think, like,have a point.
Somewhere in the middle of ofwhat I just heard is very much
the fact that one of thefailures I feel like Drake had
in the battle against Kendrickis that he actually spent energy
on the rest of the guys.
True, none of the guys deservedany attention, except for

(31:15):
Future, and Future actuallyshould have gotten the same kind
of treatment that maybe Nas goton the takeover, where it's
really about prodigy.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
But that's the petty, and Drake though, drake's petty
though.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yeah, yeah, no, no, no.
I get that, but when you're ina battle, it's the same failure
that Jay had.
Because when you go back andlisten to the takeover, I'm like
it still confounds me to thisday and I'm like instead of Nas.
It's like are you really like ifyou go?
Because once you go pull thecard it's like no, no, no, like,
go ahead and go fam.

(31:49):
You can go ahead and Like ifthe takeover is four verses, the
first three verses should havebeen about Nas, the fourth verse
should have been about Prodigyand then the fuck y'all niggas
bar at the end, that's how itshould have went in terms of how
the art of war in terms ofwinning.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
But in real time.
Like Sean said, we thought Naswas killed with the one we Nas
fans.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
It's easy to say but who was going at Jay in real
time?
It was Prodigy.
Prodigy was dumping all overJay.
We think HNIC was no, no, no.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
Prodigy is nice enough on the mic.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
He's nice enough on the mic that he deserves the
attention.
Sean, you probably know thisbetter than I do.
There are still people in NewYork probably around the time
that Jay is dropping thetakeover that think Prodigy is a
better MC than Jay.
Yes, there are people walkingaround like that around that
time.
Cool.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
In New York.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Jay had to feel that way.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Jay had to feel that way Until H&IC didn't do the
numbers that it was projected todo.
That's when Jay was like, oh,you ain't go.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
I got you.
Now you want to know whathappened to Prodigy dropped.
Keep it, thor it thorough.
I can remember, like when hedropped, that like the climate
literally had changed like rightaround the time that dropped.
And I think that's part of whathappened too, because, as great
as the record is, it's like Istill look at that and I'm like
shouldn't have made that thefirst single, though like

(33:19):
definitely should have droppedit, but it should have been like
there should have been adifferent approach because like
it had changed right in front ofthem.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
We leaving out one key element and this is a nice
sidebar but we leaving out onekey element.
Prodigy played himself byletting them release that on a
Rockefeller label.
Release the backstage as asingle.
That's your lead single.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, good clue yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
Before H&IC even came out.
So then Jay came behind thatand, like Jay was playing chess
dog, let's call it what it is.
Yeah, let's call it what it is.
But, sean, to your point though, I do see what you're saying.
I agree, I just wasn't tryingto be disrespectful about it.
But Wayne has the namerecognition, the superstar power

(34:08):
to go at kendrick.
But what I'm saying is joeybadass has in his wheelhouse the
technical ability to, like youknow, I'm saying, really battle
and spar on a level that waynedoesn't possess he's also.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
That is very problematic for me, because what
you were saying is that inorder to beat Kendrick, you
actually need Joey Badass'technicality with Lil Wayne's
star power, which really doesmake him boogeyman-like.
Are you telling me it's likethat?

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah, I didn't buy into the whole boogeyman thing
until this battle happened To me.
There wasn't nothing donebefore that to really prove it,
but he lived up to it.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
There was no bar work .
We have quantifiable facts now,don't we?

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Before that I wouldn't say that it was.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
You like that?
Don't you Sean how I usedquantifiable?

Speaker 3 (34:59):
facts and gave Kendrick props at the same time.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Look at me growing Trademark.
Hey yo Trademark.
Hey yo Trademark is wild.
Whoa.
Did you just PM me when we'redoing the same podcast together?

Speaker 2 (35:13):
What in the no, that's for us, that's for us,
just in case.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
No, no no, everybody else.
Hey, hey, hey, listen God.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
He too said people crashing out on you on other
shows and everything.
We ain't talk about people in along time.
They still crashing out overcool.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
It's been a long time , it's been like two weeks.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
What we're not still having these issues are we?
That's what T2 said.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
I don't want to get sidetracked.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
Let go of this.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Do y'all think it's all about my wife texting me
saying why AJ says he'sincoherent?
You're talking about?
I'm hating him.
You say Wayne is incoherent.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
I think a lot of that was the drugs.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, but who fault is that?
It's bad's bad.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
Stop doing drugs, I mean okay this is my thing with
the drugs.
When a painter, like whenPicasso has like one of his, his
periods and does, like you know, abstract art, or when Salvador
Dali, you know, melts freakingwatches you know, melts freaking

(36:26):
watches, you know, on canvas inreal time, and stuff like that,
and it's influenced by drugs,you know, and it's like we don't
have a problem when it's likein that form, but when Wayne
does it it is not as brilliantbecause I equate it to like very
much to what Salvador Dali doesas a painter when Wayne kind of

(36:48):
like goes on his abstract rants.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
Wow, I don't think we get some of the metaphors that
we got from Wayne.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
You gotta pick a side .

Speaker 1 (37:00):
You know, like when he says shit like like you know,
come on, baby, let the car tomake you toss you like a fruit,
salad, strawberry grape.
You're like when he says stufflike that, it's like it's not
your typical fundamentaltechnical bar that a Joey badass
is going to give, but it isthoughtful and abstract and it
does offer something differentto the game and you do have to

(37:23):
respect that.
And even with all that said,who's to say he would approach
the battle that way?
So check it okay.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
So now you're talking about I'm just playing devil's
advocate you're talking aboutweight class at this point now,
because I mean, every fightthere's a weight class.
So what it's saying to me?
You guys are saying that joeymight not be in k dot's weight
class based on popularity, righthe?

Speaker 3 (37:46):
is not on, mike, he's not, he's not right.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
And it's funny because I'm hearing y'all tell
me that Wayne isn't the reallyheavyweight MC in the ring that
Kendrick is, which actuallymakes me think.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
That's why I got Kendrick ranked higher than
Wayne.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
I was about to say, and I actually have Wayne one
slot ahead of Kendrick, whichmakes me think y'all think
Kendrick is better than Wayne.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
I do.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
Okay, I don't agree.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
I mean, there's not a whole lot of separation between
the two of them.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
I have them right next to each other.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
What I value more in an MC?
Kendrick Possess is over, Wayne.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
See, that's the thing about it.
How about this, how about this?
Of all the all-time great MCs,wayne is probably the biggest
outlier, style-wise, even fromGhost, because Ghost does have
the New York fundamentals that Ithink you guys are talking

(38:51):
about.
I call them New Yorkfundamentals because it's where
hip hop was originated.
I'm not saying that to like youknow, like saying that it's
only like exists there.
Like you know, the fundamentalsof the culture started there.
The fundamentals of the culturestarted there, and so Ghost
does have fundamental tendencies, has an MC, even throughout all
the abstract rants, and it canget very, very abstract with

(39:11):
Ghost too.

Speaker 3 (39:14):
But Ghost is a great storyteller, as is Kendrick.
That's something.
That's a box that Wayne doesn'tcheck.
I agree.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
I mean, I think Ghost is a top five storyteller.
I think Ghost is a top fivestoryteller.
I don't even know if I wouldhave Wayne in the top 20, and I
probably would have Kendrick inthe top 10 at this point.
So that's fair.

Speaker 3 (39:32):
And then the battle box that we're talking about.
Kendrick has that checked inspades.
And then Wayne doesn't.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Again, there's a lot of boxes that we're talking
about.
He's not checking.
There's no discography.
Again, there's a lot of boxesthat we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
He's not checking.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Discography.
I'm going Kendrick.
I don't know if I'm doing that.
I feel like the discography ismore of a draw.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
Even now, are you counting the mixtapes, mixtapes,
it'll go to Wayne?

Speaker 1 (40:01):
No, I'm saying, are you counting mixtapes when
you're talking, the discography?
No, I'm just talking aboutretail discography.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
You're talking to discography?
No, I'm just talking aboutretail discography.
But they both got hits and thisis a nice sidebar conversation,
but lyricism, I think you haveto pick Kendrick right.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
I mean I don't see how you're going to take your
worst moral theory.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Okay, so let me submit a couple things to you.
I do agree that Kendrick is thebetter storyteller.
Yeah, are you sure he's thebetter lyricist are you?

Speaker 3 (40:37):
I mean I would put my money on it okay, like okay.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
So where do you have like evidence of that?
Because Wayne does have barwork.
That is like this is what Ikeep on saying no, no, no.
Wayne has had Rhyme of the Year.
Worthy stuff, wayne is a beast.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
Wayne is a beast.
A lot of years, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
Hold on, aj.
Listen to what I'm saying.
Not a few years.
Think about how long Wayne'sbeen rapping.
There have been a lot of yearswhere Wayne has had rhyme of the
year, contender verses, andKendrick does not have that.

Speaker 3 (41:14):
So I'm sure he's a better lyricist.
But I go back to my initialcoherent statement and how it's
like pieced together, like wouldyou pull any Wayne verse and
say he has a joint likenostalgia.
How that was coherently piecedtogether and still made lyrical
bar work and all that.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Oh, as far as like a guest appearance, like a 16?
.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
It could be on his own album.
It don't have to be a guestappearance.
I'm just saying, like you know,I'm just asking because I can't
think of none off the top of myhead.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
I get what you're saying.
Something where he approachesit like like scheme and theme
wise and it makes the coherentpoint all make sense at the end,
like like.
In a very brief a brief way tostitch together.

Speaker 3 (41:59):
That's why I said that's kind of needed in the
realm of a battle.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
I think.
I think.
I think OK, so.
So I think Kendrick might be abetter writer, but I don't know
if he's a better lyricist.
Writer, but I don't know ifhe's a better lyricist.
That's what I'm saying and I'mnot saying that I think For me I
would call it a draw on thelyricism, but I would give
Kendrick the edge on writingbecause he's a better
storyteller, has morethought-provoking content.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
Well, wayne can lean on the fact that he doesn't
write.
So there you go.
I mean, you get what I'm saying, though.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
No, but I'm saying like I mean, he said he does it
right, so let's say that it'slike okay, so who's the more
charismatic character?
Oh, easy, Wayne.
Okay, who's?
The better guest appearanceartist.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Come on now, Wayne.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Wayne.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
He got more to pull from.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
Kendrick doesn't have enough.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
Who's the bigger icon with more kids in the game?

Speaker 3 (42:53):
Definitely Wayne.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
And so that's why hold on, listen to what I'm
saying.
I'm only saying this becausethe reason that I have them so
close is that there are boxesthat Kendrick checks over Wayne.
I acknowledge those, but Waynealso has boxes that he checks
over, kendrick.
Let's not go to hits.
Let's not go to hits.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
It's not a lot of separation, because I got
Kendrick at 10 and Wayne is mynumber 11.
So it's not a lot of separation.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Okay, so I have them like 11 and 12.
So I have Wayne at 11 andKendrick at 12.
But it's also one of thosethings too, that if we were to
do a versus, it's like go aheadand take Kendrick over Wayne if
you want.
So you are in all kinds oftrouble.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
That would be a hard day for Kendrick.
That would be a hard, long dayfor Kendrick.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
That man has so many hits and bangers.
Hits and bangers and alsolisten to what I'm about to say,
works within the realm of agroup better, because started
off doing group work.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
Yeah, but let's go back to the original point.
Even with that said, with themtwo being close in the MC
rankings, don't y'all agree thatJoey would be better, even
though he's not in the weightclass?
Don't you think with his skillset, he's better equipped to get
in the ring with Kendrick if itcame down to?

Speaker 2 (44:03):
that Bar for bar, round for round, without social
media involved.

Speaker 3 (44:12):
Yes, that's a nice caveat, because social media
will remind him that he's not inthe wake class.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
He's not going to get the popular vote.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
I lost the super chat on my thread.
Sean Pull up the chat.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
We got several actually.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead, run the super chatsats
right quick.
Yeah, let's get to thesuperchats.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Let me go to the last one.
We got CJ the Kid.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Glasses, Malone Dialet AD from Community and
Hitta J3 already responded tojoey, though malone already
saying it's a diss to the wholewest coast so be it that's what
I was about to say.
So be it.
What's the next one?
Cj the kids speaking of thewest.
Thanks for another 20.
Cj speaking of the west.
You guys consider dochi andscissor west coast artists due

(45:08):
to tbe similar to how theyconsidered rage and corrupt west
coast artists because of DeathRow.
Well, corrupt actually spenttime in California because he
went to high school with Snoop,if I'm not mistaken, because
they battled when they were inhigh school.
So I believe Corrupt actuallyspent some time in Cali.
Now, I know Rage is fromVirginia.

(45:29):
I believe Snoop found Rage whenhe was.
I believe Snoop found Rage whenhe was on tour and although
Rage has repped Death Row, ragehas never really repped the West
and, if you'll notice, wasnever involved in any of the
East Coast West Coast conflict,and part of that is because
she's from Virginia and hasalways really actually repped
that.
She's just down with Snoop.
She's down with Sno snoop,she's down with snoop.

(45:51):
She's down with death row viasnoop, but really like her, her
affiliation is via snoop, butshe reps va outside of like
snoop and whatever it is thatsnoop got going on.
So, yeah, let's go.
We got more super chats.
Okay, that's where I'm at cjthe kid chat.
Said game is making 700 barsand running for Joey as we speak
.
That's nasty, nasty word.
I can see that.

(46:11):
I actually can't see that.
That's wild.
The Raisin Head, joey, or 38?
38 fairly easily has an MC.
In my opinion, I like the way38 talks more than I like the
way Joey talks.
Joey's better lyrically, man,I'm going to just call it what

(46:32):
it is Joey's better lyricallyman.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
I'm going to just call it what it is Joey's better
lyrically.
Yeah, you got to respect Joeyman.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Joey's put in the work that I'm going to give him
the advantage because of thework, but 38's coming, guys,
he's nice 38's, fly with it.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
But I think Joey digs a little bit deeper.
I think just his lyrics yeah,it's more to him.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
He's a student of hip-hop.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
I don't want to say 38 is surface level, but Joey
does more with the pen bro.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
We'll see what happens in the next couple of
years.
I think that was an interestingquestion, even though I'm still
going to give Joey theadvantage as well.
Raising head again with the$4.99 super chat.
Abstract is Ghost saying thathe was just making up ish for
Supreme clientele In 2001,.
Prodigy wasn't nice enough tospar with Dre J.
$95 to $2,000, yes, yeah,absolutely.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
But we didn't know that until it happened.
We saw the fall off in realtime.
We.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
We saw the fall off in real time.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
We did Right Like that super chat.
That's a revisionist historysuper chat yeah.
Because, no, there are peoplethat felt like Prodigy was as
nice or nicer than Jay.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
It happened.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
Remember, Murder Music is 99.
Murder Music is 99.
Hnic although it's not like aclassic record or nothing, is
2000.
Nobody was saying in 2000, whenwe went into 2001, Yo, Prodigy,
not like that.
Nobody was saying that that'swhy Jay got so Infamy was the
first we heard of that.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
And that's why Jay got-.
That was months after.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Months and months after.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Right, right.
It's easy to say it now, butthat's why Jay got applauded so
hard because he went at Prodigy,he put the stuff on the Summer
Jam screen.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
That's why Jay became a real threat, because it felt
like Prodigy wasn't killing thejoints on QB's funds.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
He's killing everything.
He's killing everything.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
Killed everything on.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
QB's funds Killed everything on QB's funds and we
have one more.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
CJ Everything on QB's finals we have one more CJ.
The Kid Jack said Joey vs Dotis like Jaheim vs Usher Jack is
crazy man.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
First of all, he's crazy, that's not wrong.
Yo, yo yo.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Jack, jack, I got a pod name for you Wild Takes and
Whack Lists with Jack.
There we go, wild Takes andWhack Lists with Jack.
There we go, wild Takes andWhack Lists with Jack.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
Jack, you're not wrong, but you're wild for that
analogy.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
You can have that one for free, Jack you can have
that one for free.
Jack's a wild boy.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
He really is.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
Speaking of a wild boy, guys Elliot Wilson.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Wild.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
What Esco say.
These are our heroes.
These are our heroes.
First of all, I don't want youall to say anything.
I'd like to take a moment andhave a little soliloquy time.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
Let's go.
You know, with Cooper Justice,jensen's glasses is going to be
some shit yeah you know, when hetakes his glasses off, he don't
see anything.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
So that's when he's zoning out.
He's like daredevil, he's justlike so in awe of his hate right
it's like when Cyclops takesoff his glasses the hate just
goes everywhere.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
You don't see anything like Daredevil, he's
just a bunch of so much hate soall I'd like to say is is that I
tried to tell you, niggas, Itried to tell you about him.
I've been saying you about him.
I've been saying this about hishateness for a couple of years,

(50:15):
and you know what I've beencalled A hater.
That's because a hater knows ahater when he sees one.
I know, I know when I'm dealingwith a hater.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
So you're not denying the allegations on yourself,
you're just saying that likeHold on, hold on when I'm
dealing with a hater.
So you're not denying theallegations on yourself, you're
just saying that.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
I told you.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
I'm a hater, hold on, hold on.
Especially when I put theglasses on, I see, oh, I'm like,
oh, that is big hate right overthere.
And all I've been saying theentirety of this time is like
this guy used to be a journalistand now he's a media
personality, and now all's amedia personality.
And now, all of a sudden, twoyears later, everybody want to
pop up and have a journalistversus media personality-ass

(50:56):
conversation based on this drunkhating-ass nigga that I said
was a hating-ass nigga and notonly a hating-ass nigga.
A hating-ass nigga done bit alot of my shit too.
Now, he may not have liked howI've executed.
That doesn't mean take my shitbecause you don't like how I
execute.
That is neither here nor there,hey there, I thought just a

(51:18):
light actually let y'all have ittoday.
This ain't about me, alright,definitely about me, okay.
Definitely about me, okay,definitely about me.
I hate this, but somebody needs.
Somebody needs to tell him, yo,to write an article and maybe

(51:44):
get off of, uh, the camera.
You know so much.
Those are my thoughts.
Maybe write an article, maybeget back to the core of what
made you who you are.
I can always count on AG tobreak down the intricacies, so I
just like to give synopses atthis point.
Ag, go ahead, I'll be honest.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
I've never been.
Now, granted, I was a fan ofDouble XL, but once I got to
learn who Elliotiot was, I neverreally liked him as a
personality.
He has his allegiances and he,you know, does a lot of tap
dancing for, like you know,certain people gets a little too
giddy around certain rappersfor me.

(52:27):
So, like, I've never been a bigfan of his.
But for who he is, to theculture and the era that he
established himself during, andyou know who now is an og status
, it's kind of disappointing tosee him move like this.
You know what I mean for people, you know, to have comeuppance

(52:52):
and then you're hating on howthey're getting it.
Like, you have to evolve, youknow what I mean.
So it's like, yeah, you gotmore competition in this sphere
now, but you have to evolve andmake yourself dope all over
again.
You know, don't hate on thenext man because of how they're
getting it.
Like, if anything, he should bepraising what Cam and Mase are

(53:13):
doing because, being ajournalist and covering them in
hip hop, he should be saying yo,I'm proud of you, brothers,
we're transitioning into asecondary career after you hung
the microphone up, but insteadthey like OK, you eating off of
my plate or whatever.
You know I'm saying it's justreally hater like, and it's

(53:35):
disappointing.
He should be congratulatingthose guys.
Take that picture down, sean.
He should be.
He should be congratulatingthose guys.
And uh and he, I don't know it.
For me it was moredisappointing than anything to
hear him talk that way and shoutout to Roy and Maul and I think

(53:58):
the lady's name is Damaris onthere.
They were really firing thosetough questions at him.
They was telling him straightup to his face like yo, bro, you
sound like a hater.
And they was really, you know,holding his feet to the fire on
the pod.
But I don't know, and you knowCam, cam, once he, you know Cam
ain't going to stop.

(54:18):
He's going to keep applyingpressure.
You know what I'm saying toElliot.
But you know the thing that Ilike that they brought up on the
pod is how are you getting madat rappers who have
relationships with other rappers, that lending to them getting
certain interviews and so on andso forth?

(54:40):
How are you hating on them nowfor their relationships, getting
them interviews.
When you use to leverage yourrelationships to get interviews
over other journalists.
Now that somebody else is doingit, you have a problem with it.
So it's I don't know, bro, it'sjust nasty work to move like
that and I think he's going tosuffer behind this.

(55:03):
You know what I'm sayingBecause I mean, a lot of people
looked at him as corny anyway,but I think this is going to be
another blemish on his jacketfor real.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Look corny anyway, but I think this is going to be
another blemish on his jacketfor real.
Look, man, you said you weredisappointed.
He is who he is, you know.
And, at the end of the day, I'mglad he mentioned Cam, because
Cam ain't going to stop, youknow, and someone needs to check
him.
Here's the thing, fellas, aboutthe journalist versus the media
personality, and I don't wantanyone to take this the wrong

(55:32):
way.
Before I get into that, shoutout to the chat.
We got one of the best chats inthe pie game.
You guys are very active, weargue, we disagree, but we show
love.
So we appreciate the chat,first and foremost, and thank
you for the super chats as well.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
But what I want to say, is the thing about Elliot?

Speaker 2 (55:53):
you know he's a journalist and a lot of
journalists have lost the.
I don't know what happened toCoop.
I think Coop didn't want tohear this conversation because
Coop think he's a journalist.
Sometimes the journalist thingis dead, because what you listen
to on a podcast, then youlisten to someone that you can

(56:14):
gravitate to and unfortunatelyand sometimes fortunately no one
cares about the facts anymore.
They don't care about what'sright and what's wrong.
They want to care about theentertainment piece of it.
Right.
And people throw the wordjournalism out there so loosely.
And it's not such animal.

(56:34):
There's no such animal as ajournalist anymore.
Anyhow, even when Eliot was,you know, in the major game of
journalism in his heyday, he wasone of those that kept the
information sacred, meaningthere was information that he
withheld just to be able to spinthe narrative in the favor of

(56:55):
who they wanted to protect,right?
So now you're talking about,journalistic integrity is
already compromised.
He's spitting right now, bro,I'm just saying so if the
journalistic integrity iscompromised in print from
whoever else, then you're onlydoing it a different way than
what they're doing today.
So now you've got social mediapersonalities.

(57:18):
You've got Cam, you've got Maze, you've got Coop, you've got
others out there, even localpods out there, who are doing
their thing, those in the samespirit of real.
Everyone has a personality thatyou gravitate to.
People gravitate to Coopbecause they want to hear Coop
say some outlandish wild stuff.
They want to see Coop saycertain things that get under

(57:39):
their skin but they still pullup so they can argue with Coop.
Right, that's a personality.
That doesn't mean that Coop'sgoing to be and going,
interviewing and getting notesand everything from different
artists or different people justto come back out here and say,
well, I got this scoop on this,this and this.
He's sharing his opinion as afan of hip hop.

(57:59):
All of us in this space, we arepart of the body of hip hop, so
we have an opinion.
So now what's happening is thejournalists, who only had the
voice in the game at one pointbecause they had the power of
the pen, meaning they werewriting these reviews on albums
and they were saying who doingwhat when they were doing all of

(58:21):
that.
They were the only voice, butnow you've got others out there
in the space that's sharingtheir opinion, and their opinion
is being heard by the masses.
That makes you a threat, andthat's where elliot is at right
now.
He's threatened because hisvoice no longer matters.
His voice is just another voicein the sea of people so do you
mind if I share something?

Speaker 1 (58:42):
you mind if I share something honestly with you,
gentlemen, and I love, I loveeverything that you just said,
sean, and I was like, while Iwas getting like reset up, I was
was listening to you on theiPad talk.
Still, I just muted it, likewhen I pulled back up.
So I was listening toeverything you were saying while
I was gone and you're like 100%spot on.

(59:03):
I'm not joking when I'mexaggerating when I'm saying
this.
Is you why?
Because I'm a writer by tradeand by nature and by gift from
God, and so I know why.
I know specifically why his egois getting in the way and
causing all of this.
Because I can't front.

(59:23):
Cam and May started their pod.
I was thinking like them.
I was like that's another rapdude, like taking up space in
this space that I'm trying tomake a name for myself in.
And here's the thing about it,though my intent was never to
make a name for myself in thisspace.
I am a writer by trade thepodcast that the other network
has started based on an articlethat I wrote.

(59:47):
Guys, my original intentionSean you will love this was to
be the ghostface killer ofhip-hop writers.
I didn't want anybody to see myface or know my name.
I was writing under my middlename.
That's why, if you ever see mystuff, pull up on Google or
anything, it says Colin Daymar.
Those are my middle names.
I never intended for anybody toknow.

(01:00:08):
Armand Cooper the plan was towrite under my writing handle
and do it that way.
He is somebody like I'm in thisspace because I wrote something
and we got more traction for metalking about it, to me writing
about it.
He is somebody that hastraction based on the things

(01:00:29):
that he has written and built,and so he has an avenue.
Quite frankly, how about this?
Not that he has a differentavenue that you and I or any of
the three of us has, but let'skeep this shit funky.
We're more still like on a twoor three lane road and he's
operating on a super highway.

(01:00:50):
He doesn't have to be a mediapersonality.
He is chosen to be a mediapersonality because, quite
frankly, there's more money indoing that now than there is in
writing.
Let's call a spade a spade.
So this is a financial decision, because if it was about the
game and it was about theintegrity of the game and we
wouldn't even be having thisjournalist versus media

(01:01:12):
personality conversation,because he, much like me, is a
journalist by trade and way morepeople know about his
journalistic writings than mine,like, by literally millions and
leaps and bounds.
And so there is somebody like methat sits in the same space
with him now, that really neverwanted to sit in this space,
like, would prefer to have bewriting for something the

(01:01:34):
caliber of a double excel and bemarried to somebody who ends up
being the editor-in-chief ofvibe magazine.
You get what I'm saying andit's like.
No, like those of us who areblack journalists, you have had
a path and a life that most ofus envy, so watching you go out
like this is just nasty,literally nasty, like, really

(01:01:54):
Like.
When you don't have to do this,you just need to tap back into
your pen, nigga, because peoplealready Really, it's not
respected anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
This pen is not respected anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
I would rather I mean this wholeheartedly If I could
get the same traction writingfour to eight articles a month
as I do doing podcasts.
I probably wouldn't be doingpodcasts, guys, because writing
is really my passion.
I'm not being funny about it,just in terms of personal
preference.

(01:02:25):
If my writing was doing thesame thing that the podcast was
doing, I probably wouldn't bedoing the podcast, the podcast
was never the intent.
anyway, and quite frankly, togive the other guy some credit,
the podcast also wasn't my idea.
He did pick up the phone andcall me one day and ask if I

(01:02:46):
wanted to talk about it.
I didn't call him asking totalk about this shit because the
plan was to be Ghostface KillerSchema.

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
Actually, well, to you know, cap off what both of
you said.
You know made some good points.
Let's look at the life elliotchose, because if we're talking
about real journalism, the ajournalist's job would you know
sean spoke to journalisticintegrity is to report the facts
and then when you choose tolike go over and be a media
personality, then you leave thatbehind because you know I'm
saying we're all, like Sean said, talking heads and we're just

(01:03:14):
giving opinions.
We're just a bunch of cats thatlove hip-hop giving our
opinions, you know.
And then people you know we'regracious to have you here pull
up and listen to us, but that inand of itself is not journalism
.
It's not true journalism.
So, and then you know you saidyou wanted to be Ghostface
Killer Coop.
I was talking earlier about howElliot is looked at like the

(01:03:37):
corny dude.
He probably would have didhimself a better service because
he had built up this legendbehind his pen in print media,
but when he chose to step outfrom behind that and become a
media personality on the cameraand doing all that is when, like
you, hurting your own brand, inmy opinion, and he probably

(01:04:00):
feels like he needed to do thatfor the rap radars and all that
stuff of the world.
But in my opinion, you hurtyour brand and how people looked
at you and held you up in thisgame, because everybody
shouldn't be in front of thecamera.
And I'm not going to sit hereand act like I should be in
front of the camera, becausethis is something that was
presented to me as well.
You know what I'm saying,because I was just a fan of this

(01:04:22):
.
But he made the choice ofhimself to be in front of the
camera and be a mediapersonality.
So this is the life he choseand if he losing that's his
fault so ag.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
So now, let's okay.
So now I want to get into apsychological component of this,
and and and, and.
You'll understand this too.
Both of you will.
Most writers are fucking nerdsat the end of it, guys like at

(01:04:58):
my core.
Oh no, I'm just a nerd, nerdyguy like, and here's what I mean
.
I'm a nerdy guy if I couldliterally just spend my time
reading books and writing andthat's all I would do.
I'm completely okay with thatand I know know that there's
nothing wrong with that.
No, there's nothing wrong withthat.
Now, due to life circumstances,environmental situations,

(01:05:19):
family that I come from, on bothsides, oh, this is what you get
.
You know what I'm saying, butat the core we prefer to be that
, and sometimes when a writersteps outside of a writer's box
part of why most great writersare great writers because the
person isn't the type of personthat fits into a box, that a

(01:05:43):
socialite would fit into, andthat's what being a media
personality requires.
It's like and even I've had toaccept some things.
It's like oh no, I might have abetter personality than a
better pen and that's maybe whythe podcasting thing took off
way quicker than the writingthing did, even though I still
do the writing thing.

(01:06:03):
You get what I'm saying.
He needs to accept that,because he is a corny nerdy-ass
guy, that the media personalitything.
Accept that, because he is acorny nerdy-ass guy, that the
media personality thing doesn'twork as well as the dope hip-hop
writer thing and somebody needsto tell him that's all.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
That's all that needs to happen.
I think he knows it, coop.
I just think that when peopleare that so corny, they can't
change from that.
You can't change corny right,because the industry ties that
he has he could easily puthimself in position, let those
relationships that he made letthem talk.

(01:06:44):
He don't have to be apersonality, he can just
honestly be someone to have aplatform to bring all the
connections that he's had.
He can do.
He can do shows on double exceland why they went the routes
that they went and why they were, uh, catching up with the
source and all of those things.
When you're, like you saidearlier, as a writer, even I

(01:07:06):
used to write a lot when I firstjoined the military to write.
I had a journal, used to alwayswrite, whether it was lyrics,
poems, it was my way of gettingall of my emotions from the
military out.
It was my way of communicatingto myself.
In that moment I built an egobecause when I started realizing
I could write and I knew thepower of words and how to sway

(01:07:29):
conversations, it was like I gotthe.
I got the bargaining power.
Now I can have any conversationand get myself out of that
conversation or whatever thatmay be.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
So this, this is what I mean.
No, no, no, no.
So this is what I mean abouthis ego.
So sean andrew will tell youthis.
Oh, I'll never forget being in10th grade when they actually
published like my first piece inthe high school newspaper and
people started walking up to me.
I was a freshman.

(01:08:00):
People didn't.
I didn't know nobody.
I came from the hood on on fromWest Boulevard, I was off
babies.
For people that know Charlotteknow that I was going to a
different high school thaneverybody went to middle school
with.
So I knew very few people.
And so I can remember whathappened to my ego as a writer
when people confirmed me andthat was just me being in a high

(01:08:22):
school fucking newspaper, whichis where I met Andrew.
Actually, shout out to Andrew,andrew can tell you all of this
stuff.
It's like, oh, no, no, no.
That ego fed me into the writerthat I am.
So I know what type of ego thatguy has for the level that he's
operating on, and it's likeyou'd rather go out like this

(01:08:42):
than fade into that, into thesunset, because let's call it
what it is too Well, a rapper'slife.
Shelf life has been extended,but most like most rapper's
shelf life has been extended.
Well, not everybody's havingthe same shelf life extension of
a career, though, and the samething is for these journalists,
her media personalities, and hisis looking like it's going out

(01:09:02):
bad, am I wrong?

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
no, and and I, I think I came up with the answer
in real time while we're talking.
But to your, to your point,coop, and I want to ask you a
question first.
Uh, well, you know, shout outto my son, because I see what
you're saying, coop, becausethis my son's senior year of
high school and he was writingfor his school newspaper.
He doesn't have an ego behindit, but you know, I could just

(01:09:26):
tell by the way he took pride inwhat he wrote, that it was
something that was realgratifying to him, and I would
read his articles and I would bereal proud as a dad.
I'm like yo, that's dope.
I didn't even know that'ssomething he had in him.
You know what I mean, and itmade me proud.
So you know, shout out to myson, because he really did a
good job at that and he's goodat what he does with it.
But the question I want to askis if you saw, anything with

(01:10:01):
Elliot.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
How many times have you watched?

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
it for him and his personality, versus who he was
talking to or talking about Like, how about this?
Let's go Good question.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
This is one of those things.
Okay, he uses the cachet thathe built as a writer to get him
His clout, has a mediapersonality.
So the play is smart, but thisis what I mean about it looking
proper.
Oh, he was on Boulder Crestwith young Nutty a couple years

(01:10:31):
ago when nutty was blowing up.
That's east atlanta.
My homegirl shot a shot a.
The artist y'all done seen shota before.
Yeah, okay, so we're nutty and21 shot a video and the texaco
and all that where ellie did theinterview.
Oh no, shot a, stay rightacross the street.
It's like, oh no, I'll be overthere.
Like like all the time, ell,ellen can't pull up over there.

(01:10:52):
I can barely pull up over thereand I'm from there and have
people that literally rightaround the corner right there
and I got to watch how I pull uparound there.
There is something about itthat's inauthentic, if you know.
You know because, think aboutit I was raised on the east side
down here, got friends allaround that area be down there

(01:11:13):
with them all the time, and evenI got to watch how I move when
I'm on that corner specifically,I just I just literally had a
conversation with a homie.
We was watching the nutty videoand he's like yo coop.
He's like that's the mostdangerous texaco in atlanta.
And this is from somebodythat's from the south side of
atlanta saying that yeah, he,this is.

Speaker 3 (01:11:36):
This is what I figured out while we've been
talking.
We we described him as thecorny guy.
The difference is, when he madehis comeuppance, writing for
double xl, you're the corny guy,but in that era all the cool
rappers had to come to you toget their stories out.
So the corny guy has a purpose.

(01:11:57):
All the rappers that have thecash they have to come to you to
get everything to the public.
But now, in the modern era, youdon't need a print media
journalist to get the story out.
The artists can streamthemselves.
You got social media.
You got other people who aremore interesting and more

(01:12:18):
charismatic that can talk to theartists maybe another artist
themselves and they can share aconversation that you can't have
.
It's just like the conversation,like you know, if Charles
Barkley is interviewing anotherbasketball player, they're a
part of a fraternity thatanother journalist can't

(01:12:39):
understand, like a Skip Baylesscan't get on there and like have
that kind of vibe and thatlevel of conversation with
another athlete.
So it rubs them the wrong wayand I think that's what Elliot
going through now.
Like you know, I was the cornyguy that all the people had to
come to me to get the word out.
Now they don't have to come tome no more, because they can go
to anybody and everybody who's alittle bit more charismatic

(01:13:02):
than I am and then get theirstory out there.
So what purpose do I have inthis realm?
And he's having trouble findinghis way this realm.
And he's having trouble findinghis way, but instead of like
being inventive and you knowwhat I'm saying and like going
back to the drawing board.

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
He's just hating.
No, well, this is what I mean,is it?
Well, this what I've kind ofbeen saying for the last couple
years?
Well, he's actually been hatingthe whole time because, you
know, the lane that he's fillingguys is actually ours, because
he doesn't have the cachet topull those artists anymore.
Because of his cachet, theyounger artists will.
His people can get in contactwith them and they'd be like
well, you know who that is.

(01:13:38):
He started double excellent andnow a young and up and carmen
artist.
So what he is doing is he'susing his notoriety as a writer
and as a founder of publicationsto transition into the media
personality realm by getting theup and coming artists to
gravitate towards him because ofthe cachet that he built in the

(01:13:58):
realm as a writer andentrepreneur, not as a media
personality.
So we're getting exposed to anew character who we are not
familiar with because you allknow this is writers as well,
and you can probably ask yourson this from the writing that
he's done.
Oh no, writing writers havecharacters within themselves
like that's what I mean is likeI mean and you guys talk to me

(01:14:20):
behind the scenes more than Ilet most people in, and even
more so with andrew, it's like,oh no, I'm not, not even like
this off the camera 90 of thetime.
I look at it from theperspective of even doing this
podcast.
It's like, oh no, I have apersonality, I have a character
on this show, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
And that's very true.
And you brought up the youngpeople who and this is an honest
question, I don't know theanswer to it.
It just popped in my head uh,uh, up-and-coming rapper in 2025
.
How much reverence do you thinkthey even have for the source
in double xl?

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
no.
So I mean, the industry workskind of like.
It's like one of those things.
Okay.
So when I came into thehospitality business, in at
there used to be this guy, pano,and he started this restaurant
called Pano's and Paul's and youknow they pretty much started
the fine dining culture inMidtown and Buckhead in Atlanta
in the late 70s, early 80s.

(01:15:24):
Okay, and so for me, when I amcoming into the business and
coming back from California,it's 2006 and Pano is coming
into an establishment that I'mworking at.
That is the talk of.
You know, he's a legend.
And so the industry works, thatthe rap industry works in that

(01:15:48):
same way.
It's like oh no, no, no, Ididn't work with him.
He was literally building thisshit out before I was born and
when I was an infant.
But when I was in this and Iwas in my mid-20s and he was
coming through the building,it's like oh no the whole
building was like shakingbecause of the legend.
It's like knew who he was and,you know, got a chance to sit
and talk with him one time whichwas like really, really dope,

(01:16:11):
and that's just one of thosethings, and that's what I'm
saying.
Elliot's cachet, as far asbeing a hip-hop journalist is
concerned, is like that.
It is so, even if the guydoesn't know, even if the guy
doesn't know, oh, somebody onhis team knows and it's like, oh
, no, no, no, that's a good lookfor us.

(01:16:32):
We need to do that Because theartist might be like, who this
old nigga Be like?
Oh, no, no, no, that's the dudethat.
Did, did, did, did, did, did,did, did, did, did, did, did,
did, did, did, did, did, did,did, did, did, did, did, did.
What my uncle?

Speaker 3 (01:16:43):
used to tell me about Okay, bet, okay, do that Bring
him down to the neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
I had a homie make sureeverything's straight, and then
it happened.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
But cool.
That's the thing.
He became a caricature ofhimself over the years Because
you're talking about someone whomay have had respect at some
point, because they probablyfelt like he had to have the
respect, but over the years hestarted doing some funny things.
So now you become a caricatureof who you were.
And again I know we got to moveon from this.
I'm going to say it like thisand I don't want I hope no one

(01:17:22):
takes this the wrong way Any popspace.
You know it's a privilege andit's an honor to be able to come
on camera and talk hip hop withtwo good dudes and I don't take
that lightly.
You know I told AG and I eventold you when you and I first
started talking.
I never wanted to get on camera.
I never wanted to share storiesthat I know that could go viral

(01:17:43):
.
But out of respect for thosestories, there's nothing to talk
about for those stories for thepublic consumption.
There's nothing to talk aboutfor those stories for the public
consumption.
But you have, you know,characters out there, you have
personalities out there whothink that this is the career of
careers, where they only get afew thousand subscribers and a
few thousand likes and all ofthese things.
And that's where you have me,with someone like Homeboy, like

(01:18:08):
Elliot.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
So so this is what I mean.
So when you say that, sean, myimmediate thought when you said
that was that I've probably onlytold about 10% of the stories
that I've had since I've beendoing the pod over the last four
years.
I could easily do this forabout 20 years without sharing
all of my stories.
Think about the stories he hasand how much writing material he

(01:18:33):
has based on these stories,like he could be literally
writing short stories to thesepublications based on a
conversation he had with jay andwhen the 40 40 40 club opened
and he got invited to the.
It's like he has some.
He has such a plethora ofhip-hop history at his
fingertips If you were to put apen or a keyboard in front of it

(01:18:57):
instead of that, maybe he getsback into the habit, because
although it is like hey, howabout this?
It's like you know how they sayit's like riding a bicycle Well
, it's like, oh no, you can geton a bicycle and ride it again
once you've ridden a bicyclebefore, but it ain't the same if
you ain't ridden a bicycle in awhile.
And really what needs to happenis he needs to get back on that

(01:19:17):
riding bicycle, because that'swhere his star really shines,
that's where he is a legend tous.
He is not a legend as a mediapersonality, he is a legend as a
journalist.

Speaker 3 (01:19:29):
But to be fair to, be fair, our era, and maybe a
little bit after us, are theonly ones checking for print
media.
Like you know, you get intothis younger age group.
I don't think they're checkingfor print media.

Speaker 1 (01:19:43):
He's significant.
He is notably older than us,and so even having his
demographic in our age bracket,which is a step below his, is
still viable enough to makeyourself viable.
We have made ourselves viablewith way less.

Speaker 3 (01:20:01):
Right, but I'm not saying it's totally dead,
because we scroll all day longand I read articles on the
Internet.
But real talk, when was thelast time you bought a magazine?

Speaker 2 (01:20:12):
It's a dying magazine , it's a dying IP, it's nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:20:17):
But he is one of those guys that can thrive in
that dying environment becausehe is a hip-hop legend and icon.
As a hip-hop journalist, he isone of the people he's
grandfathered in, and so howabout this?
The county that I live indoesn't allow happy hour.
Okay, there are a couple ofplaces that open.

(01:20:38):
If you opened a place before1990 in this county, you're
allowed to have happy hour,because that's when they changed
the drinking laws.
About the happy hour, he isalthough that these laws and
these rules have changed hisgrandfathered in because of how
long he been in establishment inan entity as a journalist, and

(01:21:00):
so the rules that we are talkingabout that apply in this modern
day game.
They do not apply to a selectfew, and he actually is one of
those select few.
That's the part about it thatmakes it nasty work.
It's like you know this shitdon't apply to you, right?

Speaker 3 (01:21:16):
yeah, I think we're saying two different things.
You're saying he needs to fallback on what made him great.
What I'm saying is likepodcasting is all you know.
I told sean this beforeeverybody got their.
You know I'm saying throwingtheir names in the hat and we're
all eating off the same carcass.
We're just a bunch of vulturesout here eating the hip-hop

(01:21:36):
podcast.
Yeah, the hip-hop podcast isoverrun, bro, so maybe I'm
giving Elliot too much credit,but I'm saying, as smart as he
is and then, where he comes from, he should be thinking about
the next thing he comes from.
He should be thinking about thenext thing, like, don't try to
hate on the podcasters doingtheir thing now, because they're
caking up and they're doingtheir thing.

(01:21:57):
Okay, so you might have missedthis boat a little bit.
You need to be thinking aboutwhat's next.
You know what I mean, andpioneer that instead of falling
back on what made you great,because, like, I think that's a
dying IP, what Sean said.
And as far as hip-hoppodcasting, you know, I think we
the dopest out, but we only gotthe shy 2,000, like subscribers
or whatever.
You know what I'm saying, butit's because everybody is

(01:22:18):
consuming the same content.
They're all eating off the samecarcass man, so somebody gotta
find that new.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
Right.
I mean, you know, truthfully,for us and this is what I mean
about he's not in this space inorder for us to thrive, we have
to outwork our competition.
We don't even have to be betterthan our competition, we just
have to outwork them.
I do think we're better thanour competition.

(01:22:47):
Well, it has to be acombination of those things.
Well, it has to be acombination of those things.
I mean, it has to be aconfluence of circumstances, for
sure, and what I'm saying hisconfluence of circumstances look
like is that he doesn't evenhave to be in this space to
thrive and exist.
He is deified in this space andwhat he is doing is playing with
his deification, because thisis not like.

(01:23:09):
How about this?
If he was the Michael Jordan ofhip hop journalists?
Oh no, this is not MichaelJordan with the Wizards.
This is not like.
How about this?
If he was the michael jordan ofhip-hop journalists?
Oh no, this is not michaeljordan with the wizards.
This is like michael jordanlike right now, like if you ask
mike to play, like that's whatthis look like, you know?
I mean, this ain't no 20, 22points a game, like that's not
what he out here giving yeah, Iknow we gotta move on.

Speaker 3 (01:23:25):
But to my original point.
Some cats just don't need to bein front of the camera because
we didn't know he acted the wayhe acted like.
He might have been giddy ashell, like every time he
interviewed jay for double xl,but when you put that optic in
front of the camera and peoplesee it, you know what I'm saying
.
You want to talk about likereally, you know I'm saying like

(01:23:46):
messing with your brand orwhatever people like come on,
bro.
Like you know what I mean.
Like you know it's like it'sout there for public consumption
.
Now, you know what I'm saying.
So, everybody, you know the,the image of people, the image
what people had in their headthe ones of us that did hold us
high for what he built in thepast, that's, that's tarnished,

(01:24:09):
bro.
We don't look at him in thesame way because of how.
How he acts when the camera'son.
Well, that's tarnished, bro.
We don't look at him in thesame way because of how he acts
when the camera's on.

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
Well, that's because now you can go back to his
writing work and be like oh well, he has biases and that hurts
your integrity, it's blatantlyobvious.
How about this?
Not to be funny, I'm about tobring up some old white men,
right quick.
Did y'all ever know how PeterJennings, Tom Brokaw or Dan

(01:24:39):
Rather voted?
Because they delivered the newsto us throughout our entire
childhood, teenage and 20s aboutpolitics and we never knew if
they were Democrat or Republican.
Did you ever know if they wereDemocrat or Republican?
Or?
republican right, because that'swhat true journalism is and so
that's what him, being a mediapersonality, has exposed.

(01:24:59):
Is that?
Well, we have you as an icon,as a journalist, and it's like
it looks like you have, like youknow, not the journalistic
integrity that should bebequeathed to iconic journalists
in any sort of sphere ofwriting.
He's too much of a fan In a badway.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:22):
In the worst way.

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
We got to get out of here.
We can literally do this forthe whole year we got to go.

Speaker 2 (01:25:29):
We say all this with love, Elliot.
If you were to get access tothis in any kind of means, we
say all this with love, Elliot.
If you were to get access tothis in any kind of means, we
say all this with love.
If you don't take it as love,who cares?

Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
No, Sean's saying it with love.
I ain't saying it with love.
I'm saying this shit like itfucking does.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
Love is love in 2025, man, love is love.
Yeah, I would love it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:49):
Love is love love.
Yeah, I would love it.
Love is love, love, love islove, love.
That's a Capitano quote.
Please don't do that to start2025.
I would love it if they wouldstop what I would love for 2025,
if, elliot, if you would stopdoing this bullshit and if they
would stop quoting Capitano.
That's you two over there,that's crazy man, you two.

Speaker 2 (01:26:09):
Cool, let's get some super chats, man.

Speaker 1 (01:26:12):
Let's get to these super chats.
I lost the damn super chatsagain.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
I got you right here.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
I got you right here.
So, blind CJ the Kid back inwith $5.
Once I found out that Elliot isthe one that gave one day to
all, makes this three and a halfmics.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
I knew never to trust him he'sembracing.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
He's embracing his villain role.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
He's really embracing his villain role.
Cj's that guy man it is an easy4 mic album though the real
raisin head 499 on the superchat, even before X's death.
Why is it funny to laugh atWayne's drug issues but not
DMX's?
And if Wayne were from New York, who would be Question?
Love the pod, salute.

Speaker 3 (01:26:58):
If Wayne were from New York, who would he be?
I guess Jewels, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
Way better than.

Speaker 1 (01:27:07):
Jewels no, he is not a cop, the Raisinhead, I'm not
about to argue a cop.
The Raisinhead.
I'm not about to argue aboutthat the Raisinhead.
Dear Elliot.
For a hip-hop journalist whoclaims to support a culture, the
rep's the voice of the unheard.
It's sad.
The day of the gatekeeper isover.
The rabbits ain't giving theguns back.

(01:27:28):
Wow, we have.
You want to know what we have?
We have some veryGhostface-killing Lil Wayne
abstract bar work super chatstonight.

Speaker 3 (01:27:36):
We appreciate y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:27:37):
Y'all starting the new year right.
It's been stellar.
The super chat game has beenstellar.
Hold on.
We have more 007 stepping inthe building again.
Premiere just towered some-ishthat Nas project may be one of
those Greats.
Don't speak like that and notdeliver.
Kind of reminds me of Nastalking about Stillmatic during
the Nostradamus promo Insightfrom Double O to start off the

(01:28:01):
new year, and we are going to goto a topic that does not
involve journalists and mediapersonalities.
But back to the artists,gentlemen and I use that term
loosely about both of youmotherfuckers.
Who needs to have a successfulcampaign in 2025?

(01:28:24):
Artists, producers, producer.
Yo God, you already know.

Speaker 2 (01:28:26):
You already know what I'm about to say Sean, Go ahead
and say it for me Cool, cole.

Speaker 1 (01:28:32):
You already know.
You already know what I'm aboutto say.
Sean, go ahead and say it forme, cole.

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
Cole got it.
This got to be the year Coledropped the fall off in the
first quarter and dominated 2025.

Speaker 1 (01:28:45):
I would like to let J Cole know that we have gotten
to the point in this dance whereSean is finishing my thoughts
and sentences and, quite frankly, that makes me sick.
No, no, no.
Shame on you, cole, for puttingme through this.
I don't know how many, I don'tknow how many years I have to

(01:29:07):
come on a podcast and say thathe needs to make album of the
year, but I'm just not going tosay anything this time.
You think Cole needs that morethan Drake to come on a podcast
and say that he needs to makealbum of the year, but I'm just
not going to say anything thistime.

Speaker 3 (01:29:14):
You think Cole needs that more than Drake?

Speaker 2 (01:29:17):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:29:19):
Drake is.

Speaker 2 (01:29:19):
Drake.
Let's not get it twisted guys.
Drake is Drake.

Speaker 1 (01:29:23):
Do a baby with a Cole .
Do a baby with a Cole needpurple Tylenol Look man Cole was
a chosen one from a purestandpoint.
You can't do this.
Look what I've been subjectedto.

(01:29:45):
I'm from the west side ofCharlotte and east side of
Atlanta and I've been subjectedto Andre 3000 and J Cole for the
entirety of my podcast career.
I'll be damned, I'll be damned,I'll be damned.
We need some W's.
We need some W's that don'tinvolve Rhapsody.

Speaker 2 (01:30:03):
Quite frankly, the fall off got to be the most.

Speaker 1 (01:30:06):
I'm not joking, I'm not exaggerating.
Do you understand what hashappened to Atlanta and North
Carolina artists since I've beendoing this?
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 3 (01:30:16):
Look what happened to the baby.

Speaker 1 (01:30:18):
The baby's from the same side of town that my family
is from.
He's from Huntersville.
My family is from WestBoulevard, that's Westside.

Speaker 3 (01:30:26):
I agree that Cole is the one.
The fall-off needs to be afive-mic classic album.
I agree with everything y'allsaying.
But there's other names outthere that needs a really viable
2025.
Drake, that 100 gigs and allthat stuff was cute.
But he needs to bounce back andnot talk about a joint for the
casuals.

(01:30:46):
He needs to get back what hedid on those six tracks with the
Scary H?
Um, the scary hours, three onthe for all the dogs.
He needs to make a joint likethat and really appease the rap
fans.
And like, you know what I'msaying because he lost the
battle, but I think he can savesome face if he releases an
album with a lot of those.

(01:31:07):
Right, and y'all might think I'mtripping, but Jay, it couldn't
hurt Jay to drop an album that'sreally dope in 2025.
Because he took a hit.
You know what I'm saying in thePR.
You know we don't have to talkabout the case, but when Jay-Z

(01:31:27):
addresses stuff on record andgranted, like if you don't have
any kind of trial, like by then,then of course your lawyers are
telling you don't speak on itor whatever.
Right, but just hypothetically,when Jay addresses stuff that's
going on in his life, he really, you know that's when he's
sometimes at his best.
You know what I'm saying and Ithink that if he comes out of

(01:31:50):
this unscathed and you know,hopefully not guilty of anything
, unscathed and hopefully notguilty of anything a Jay-Z album
would be big and dope for himin 2025, where he gets to
address the issues from hisvantage point and I think a lot
of that public perception that'sbeen ruined could swing in the

(01:32:11):
other direction if he's notguilty.

Speaker 2 (01:32:15):
I respectfully disagree.
I think Jay is who he is.
I don't think Jay have torespond to nothing else.
I don't think he needs to makean album.
Maybe 10 years ago, 15 yearsago, yes, 2025?
Nah, jay is who he is man.
Jay doesn't have to make anymore music.
If he chooses not to, if hewant to drop a Lucy in 2025 just

(01:32:36):
to address it, so be it.
That's a stretch.
I don't think he has to drop afull album.
I think again, aj, I get whatyou're saying.
Drake is Drake.
Let's not get it twisted.
Drake's still selling likecrazy.
Right now, in the midst of allof this battle.
If you take away all the noisefrom social media and the hip

(01:32:57):
hop police and all of thesethings of social media, drake is
still selling like crazy.
He's still a major drop.
He doesn't.
2025 would be great for him tohave.
Of course, that's a gimme right, but for someone like Cole, who
actually has already he tweetedon I think it was first

(01:33:19):
yesterday, yesterday, he tweetedthe fall off.
Cole did, yeah, cole did.
So he's saying like, yeah, it'scoming this year.
He's the one who needs to havelike that banging gear to close
everything.

Speaker 1 (01:33:33):
Let's address the J thing.
Everything you're sayingactually about the J thing,
everything you're sayingactually about the j thing, is
spot on ag, except for thehip-hop connoisseur perspective
of it, which is, well, he isgoing to be forever compared
against one guy musically, and Ijust don't think it's wise for

(01:33:55):
him to step into that foray,because then what can happen is
is that you know him releasing asubpar album post this nas run
can make it in public opinionlike, well, you know, you want
to know.

(01:34:15):
Oh, that guy is the goatactually, you know what I'm
saying.
And so about about that, aboutthat.
Unless he got it like that andI've been saying this, I've been
saying this for some years toounless he has a king's disease,
one worthy album in the bag, itis not a wise decision for him
on rap terms to do it.
But I understand totallyeverything that you were saying,

(01:34:38):
cole, forest Hills Drive justcan't be your best album and
you'd be a top 20 MC all time,and so that's just really it at
the end of the day.
And I'm not saying that, like,forest Hills Drive isn't Madison
Square Garden worthy because itis.

(01:34:58):
But this is also not 1996,where your 20th best rapper is
probably like somebody who wenever grew up listening to in
like who would fall in, whowould fall as a number 20 rapper
of all time.
In 1996, like when all of usbecame like, you know, kind of
like hip-hop heads, likeofficial guys, like think about

(01:35:22):
it, it's like in 1996 jay wasn'teven solidified as a top 20
rapper all time.
Like, so we grew up in aclimate where it's like, oh no,
cool, modi, grandmaster andMelly Mel are still going to
make a top 20 list easily.
We grew up in that world and sobeing a top 20 MC of all time

(01:35:49):
Forest Hills Drive is not goodenough for that.
I agree with that Not as yourmagnum opus, like because watch
this, okay.
So where do you have red man ag?

Speaker 3 (01:36:01):
yeah, money.
Why we're not even going to dothat?
Because money waters is betterthan forest hills drivers, so
we're not going to do that okay.

Speaker 1 (01:36:07):
Okay, where you got cool g rap oh man, cool g rap
would be in my top uh 15 sothink about this Is Forest Hills
Drive better than Wanted Deador Alive or Live and Let Die, or
Road to Riches?
Do you think it's better thanany of those three?
I would say no.

Speaker 3 (01:36:28):
But I think part of me saying no lends to my age,
demographic, because I think ata certain point a lot of people
would resoundingly say yes inCole's favor.
How?

Speaker 1 (01:36:37):
about this.
Is Forest Hills Drives BetterThan Long Live the Kane.
No, that's one of the greatestalbums of all time, so he's not
ahead of Kane.
You know, most people don'teven have Kane.
Where you got Kane?

Speaker 3 (01:36:51):
Because that's all Kane has to bring to the table.

Speaker 1 (01:36:54):
I think that's what hurts Kane, so you got Cole
ahead of Kane.

Speaker 3 (01:37:00):
I don't.
You know, I never reallythought about that, but that's
Kane's only buy-in and I thinkthat hurts him a lot.
You know what I'm saying,Because we hold legends
different.

Speaker 2 (01:37:12):
We hold guys like that, I mean Kane's impact
Kane's, Some of those guys.

Speaker 1 (01:37:17):
Their impact is so different because of the time in
which they evolved.

Speaker 3 (01:37:23):
Kane has Biggie and Jay as children, so off that
alone I'll put him ahead of Cole.
But with that said, as great,as long-lived as Kane is, that's
your only major buy-in and thatknocks you down.
That's why Kane is not in mytop 10.
But I love Kane.
But to clarify the Jay thingreal quick, Coop, I agree with

(01:37:46):
what you're saying, but what Imeant was on the content side of
things, because I know people.
You know one of my best friends.
He thinks Jay is the GOAT.
But he was like yo.
I could care less about hearingJay in 2024, 25, talking about
his paintings on the wall beingmarried to Beyonce.
All that stuff I'm saying isthis gives him viable subject

(01:38:08):
matter to really delve into.
People trying to take him down.

Speaker 1 (01:38:14):
Oh, you mean, this is good inspiration for writing
material, right?

Speaker 2 (01:38:17):
That's what I meant.
No, no, no Love that Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:38:20):
Hold on, hold on AG, and would not be surprised if he
hasn't already even recordedsome records.
Just don't know if those areever going to see the light of
day.

Speaker 3 (01:38:29):
Because I think that's when he's at his best.

Speaker 1 (01:38:32):
That's still a safe place, yeah, oh, when you put
him up against it, yeah, that'sthe whole problem.

Speaker 2 (01:38:39):
The blueprint.
He's done it before.
We've seen it too many timeswith Jake.
He don't have to do thatanymore.
He doesn't have to do thatanymore if you want to drop a
long verse on a calot joint orwhoever God did no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:38:52):
I don't want to hear that.
You want to know what AG?
When you were talking, I didthink to myself though I could
see him maybe doing like alittle quick four pack of songs
and maybe dropping it out theblue and be like I don't think
it all has to be on the case,but today's rap fan base doesn't

(01:39:13):
view Jay the way the peopleview him that we came up on.

Speaker 3 (01:39:18):
You know what I'm saying, so I think that there's
a lot to be said from hisvantage point behind it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:27):
You want to know what's crazy and I didn't really
find this out until this pastyear of kind of like working in
Midtown and downtown in Atlantaagain like regularly.
Town and downtown in Atlanta,again like regularly there's a
generation of people thatliterally look at him and it's
like, oh yeah, that's Beyonce'shusband and I'm like nigga what
they're like, yeah, that's heused to rap.

(01:39:48):
Right, that's what Sean says.
First of all, sean says thatbecause he's petty in disrespect
.
These people are saying thatbecause this is their reality.

Speaker 3 (01:39:57):
I mean, I thought I heard you say that before.

Speaker 1 (01:40:00):
Pretty certain.
It sounds like something Seanwould say.
I said it's.
Blue's father.
I said it's Blue's father.

Speaker 3 (01:40:04):
All right, moving on Next topic.
Next topic this dude, SeanWilde.

Speaker 1 (01:40:08):
Wow, no Super chats.
Then next topic Jermainesonwith the 999 super chat.
Elliot was hating.
Elliot is also correct.
A lot of these media platformsare trash.
It's mostly just hip-hop,gossip, not music, and then they
call themselves the journalists.
Well, you know, we got theseglass houses, so I try not to

(01:40:32):
have stones when I step outsideof that, motherfucker.
All right, thank you.
My mere thoughts 199.
Jay-z In my Lifetime, volume 2,2025.
No, how about no?

Speaker 3 (01:40:47):
How about no, I'm glad you said that Volume 2.
That's a good segue to our nexttopic, when we get out of these
super chats.

Speaker 1 (01:40:52):
All right, pull up the rest of them.

Speaker 2 (01:40:56):
Okay, the last one, my mere thoughts with the 999
Super Chat.

Speaker 1 (01:41:02):
Appreciate you my mere thoughts.
The fab north of Montana isfire.
It is yeah, I was impressed.

Speaker 3 (01:41:13):
I was skeptical to listen to it.
Once I saw the cover art I waslike come on, fab.

Speaker 1 (01:41:17):
And then it was pretty dope.
I didn't see the cover art.
Somebody sent it to me.
But I'm glad they sent it to me.
It's one of the better recordshe's made in a minute.

Speaker 3 (01:41:25):
Yeah, shout out to Fab.

Speaker 1 (01:41:27):
Yeah, shout out to Fab.
Speaking of Fab, og Classicsent me.
So, gentlemen, a lot of ourgreat and all-time great MCs
have been making returns in the2020s, but what do those
deposits look like?
We've seen a lot of albums madewith predecessor titles of

(01:41:51):
their greatest works, and isthis just an overall good look
for hip-hop is really what wewant to ask, and are these
artists potentially hurtingthemselves by releasing classic
album redos and sequels of thesame name that?
Maybe it happened too late?
Did they miss their time?
Did they miss their moment?

(01:42:11):
What's the thought on the returnof all the ogs?
Because we got a ton of guysthat have made returns in the
last couple years.
Ice cube just dropped theprojects, because we got a ton
of guys that have made returnsin the last couple years.
Ice Cube just dropped a projectlast year.
We've always talked about theNas run.
Wayne is still here and viableand, as much as people hate to
admit it, even the guys thatpeople call the big three the
Waynes I mean the Coles, theKendricks, the Drakes those guys

(01:42:32):
are all 15-year vets now.
They're not you know.
Yeah, like, think about this IfSteph and LeBron and KD are on
the back end.
So are these guys, becausethey've been rapping as long as
those guys have been ballingpretty much Yep.
So we got to look at the gamethe same way.
So what do you think about thestate of the OGs and how's the

(01:42:52):
game looking right now?

Speaker 2 (01:42:53):
AG do you want to oh OGs and how's?

Speaker 3 (01:42:58):
the game looking right now AG, do you want to?
Oh yeah, I don't think it looksvery good at all.
If I'm being honest, Tellpeople how you really feel.
Tell them why you mad son yeahlike you know we was going to
focus around you know legendsdoing sequel albums.
Right, and just to clarify,like a lot of times, like you

(01:43:19):
said, coop, they read, theyrevisit a theme and then, you
know, do a sequel album, a lotof times with some distance or
gap in between.
So when they come out with thisyou know follow-up album, when
they title it as such as a, youknow, successor to the original
classic, they want people tohearken back to their original

(01:43:42):
work.
And then they're trying to comeout with, um, something new.
And we often get disappointedbehind those releases because we
say, oh, missionary, is notdoggy style.
Um, although the chronic andChronic 2001 are both classics
or whatever, I know a lot ofpeople that will say it didn't
live up to the first Chronic.

(01:44:03):
And then, you know, lost Tapes 2is in Lost Tapes 1, and then I
can go on and so on and so forth.
But we usually crucify theartists for not living up to
their previous works.
But to the point that you said,coop, how's the game looking?
I think a lot of time theseolder artists got to revisit

(01:44:23):
their previous works and try totap into something dope, because
there's not enough dope artistsin the current game.
So you know I'm having to getoff my lawn moment.
But at the same time, if youlook once kendrick cole and
drake decide to hang it up, andsome other people that we named
early in the show, in their, uh,in their class, like the big

(01:44:43):
shawns and you know the joey'sand you know those are the world
, who's really up next to carrythe torch?
I mean, it doesn't, it doesn'tlook good, you know.
Know, we are all Griselda fanshere, but those guys are our age
.

Speaker 1 (01:44:59):
You know what I?

Speaker 3 (01:44:59):
mean they are Absolutely.
It doesn't look good.
So like listening to MuddyWaters 2, is it Muddy Waters 1?
Not at all.

Speaker 1 (01:45:12):
Very few albums are Very few.
Rap albums are.

Speaker 3 (01:45:14):
Right, but is it a dope project?
Yes, and I don't want to comeon here and crucify Redman for
not living up to the originalMuddy Waters.
The question I want to ask iswhat new artist is putting out
an album that's as good as thesecond installment?

Speaker 1 (01:45:32):
Oh, shoot, okay.
So, ag, I guess I think on thelevel of like, shoot where's,
when is one of these artistsgoing to make a muddy waters?
Because that is the biggerproblem.
So I think I think we're askinga good question, but I actually
think the better question is iswell, if there was a new crop

(01:45:55):
of ms that were making somethingthat was Muddy Waters level,
only built for Cuban Lynx level,illmatic level, we wouldn't
have to talk about the redosthat these other artists are
doing, because the game would bechanging precipitously, fast

(01:46:18):
enough that then making thosetypes of albums wouldn't be an
option for them.
In this climate, you allactually taught me something.
When we were talking aboutstillmatic and y'all talked
about it being the follow-up toillmatic, I thought, oh, he's
ahead of everybody else on howquick you're supposed to do a

(01:46:39):
follow-up as well.
That is another feather in hiscap, because Stillmatic to me,
was never a follow-up, becauseI'm so used to follow-ups taking
so long.
But then you got to think aboutit the way rap years work and
it's like, oh no, releasing afollow-up to your quote-unquote,

(01:46:59):
undisputed classic seven yearsafter its release in rap years,
it's like doing it 20 yearslater.
It's perfect timing.
Literally doing it 20 yearslater is not a good idea, and
very few people have pulled itoff.
Well, because I thought aboutsomething the best redos, the

(01:47:20):
best sequels or whatever thatwe've had, both came seven years
apart, and that's the Chronic2001 and Stillmatic.
Talk about it, guys.
The best sequels that we hadcame seven years apart.
What's wrong?
You had the Chronic ready.
You knew we were going to talkabout it.
I didn't even tell you I wasgoing to talk about this.
You had it ready, so you weregoing to talk about this anyway.

(01:47:41):
So you already know.
So this is.
The thing with it is is thatthe problem isn't the rappers
doing the sequels, it's the factthese niggas waited too long to
do the sequels the space yeahseven.
I mean okay, so shout out to thePurple Tape 2.
I think the Purple Tape 2 isthe best example of somebody

(01:48:02):
taking their OG classic andtransferring it into modern day
form, because there is what a 14year gap.
14 year gap, the 14 year gap.
There's no other sequel that'sas good as the purple tape that
it took that long to make in hiphop history, I think.

(01:48:23):
And so the purple and I wasgoing to bring this up the
purple tape too, for me would bethe barometer by which we
measure the modern day sequel interms of how we should gauge it
.
Because is it the purple tape?
Well, no, it's not a top fiverap album of all time.
But isn't it appropriatefollowup?
Oh, yes, it is.
It's a very appropriatefollowup for the amount of time

(01:48:44):
that it took.

Speaker 3 (01:48:45):
And in the context of the Wu, if we name in the top
10 Wu albums, I think it makesit might make the cut at the
very end.

Speaker 1 (01:48:54):
From a solo artist perspective.

Speaker 3 (01:48:56):
Just Wu albums in general.

Speaker 1 (01:48:59):
Wu albums in general.
So we have Enter the Wu-Tangand Wu-Tang Forever.
Right, we got the Purple Tape.
Liquid Swords, iron man,supreme, return to the 36
Chambers.
Yeah, I mean after Return tothe 36 Chambers.
I don't necessarily know ifthere's an album better than the

(01:49:19):
purple tape too.
Am I missing something?

Speaker 3 (01:49:21):
like I mean, you could throw to cal in there.

Speaker 1 (01:49:24):
I mean I don't think the cow's better than the purple
tape too.

Speaker 3 (01:49:26):
It's not I don't necessarily think so either.

Speaker 1 (01:49:29):
The beats away, but I mean nothing against riz's
production job on.
The beats on the purple tape,too, are the better than the
beats on.

Speaker 3 (01:49:35):
To cap, and I know you're going to think I'm
talking funny, but the Pillageman, like the Pillage, would
make that top ten bro.

Speaker 2 (01:49:42):
No no, no, I'll go to the side.

Speaker 1 (01:49:44):
The Pillage might make the top ten, but I don't
think that's better than thepurple tape too as well, and
that is me saying thatobjectively.

Speaker 3 (01:49:50):
Yeah, that's.
I would give the edge to PurpleTape too, but I think it does
make the cut for the top 10 moveproject You're right, because I
think you can drop it at aboutseven or eight or nine.

Speaker 1 (01:50:02):
I love Nigga, pleased by Old Dirty Bastard.
I don't care what anybody says,that's in my top 10.

Speaker 3 (01:50:07):
That was a wild area because we got Bobby Digital and
that around the same time andyou had to be a diehard root.

Speaker 2 (01:50:15):
It came about a year apart because Bobby Digital was
like yeah, that's what I'msaying Like around the same time
.

Speaker 3 (01:50:19):
But I remember they came out like if we doing fiscal
year they came out.

Speaker 1 (01:50:23):
Hold on.
No, that's two years apart,isn't that 98-2000?
98-2000.

Speaker 3 (01:50:29):
I remember them both being like my freshman year of
college.
One was towards the front endand one was towards the back end
.

Speaker 1 (01:50:34):
If ODB is 99, he's late 99.

Speaker 2 (01:50:38):
It had to be yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:50:41):
Like definitely fall this fall.
Fall had to have been fall.

Speaker 2 (01:50:44):
Bobby Ditchie came out in 98.

Speaker 3 (01:50:46):
I think it was the second year.
Yeah, my second year, because Ionly spent two years in the
dorms by my own spot.
I remember both of those wasout.
Before spot.
I remember both of those wasout before, when I was in the
dorms.
It was a year apart, but stillthat was a wild time to be a Wu
fan.

Speaker 2 (01:51:05):
I fought through it, though I ain't going front, I
fought through Rest in peace toHolocaust for real.
Rest in peace to Holocaust, akaWar Cloud.

Speaker 1 (01:51:15):
Rest in peace to ODB, one of the dopest, one of the
dopest lyricists.

Speaker 2 (01:51:19):
man in that Wu Camp from the West Coast man.

Speaker 3 (01:51:23):
Best verse on that Bobby Digital album arguably
Best verse Best verse on thatBobby Digital album.

Speaker 1 (01:51:30):
That and meth verse on NYC Everything are the two
best ones.

Speaker 2 (01:51:34):
Yeah, sit behind the can as we go inside the mind
again Never mind the man, drop agym.
Can you shine again?
Most definite, the milk iscrazy man.
You guys killed that.
If I can add on just a littlebit, you guys really killed that
.
Real talk, bravo, I think.
For me, my take on the emotionalside of me, I don't disagree, I

(01:51:59):
agree with HG.
The logical side, I don'tdisagree.
Or vice versa, sean, youechoing a little?
Yeah, I got this other devicetrying to get stuff in.
Am I still echoing?
No, all right, let me turn thisthing off because I'm in the
chat at the same time.

(01:52:20):
Alright, that's better.
Here's the thing, fellas, theOG's never had anyone to pass
the torch to, so they didn'thave a successor and because of
that they got to come back andcircle the block.
I think when Jay had anopportunity when he was a

(01:52:40):
successor, and because of thatthey got to come back and circle
the block, I think when Jay hadan opportunity, when he was
trying to get Bleak, to be thenext one to be the new, improved
Jay, it didn't pan out and heleapfrogged that and went to
Wayne when Wayne was on his run,remember, he said you know,
pass the torch to young Carter,go further, go farther.
I think when you have stufflike that happening, when you
start inventing the regionitself, you don't have someone

(01:53:03):
to replace what you alreadycreated, because we always talk
about it.
You are not even behind thescenes.
We talk about how important youknow the early 90s were when it
came to hip hop and you had thepillars.
And you even go back to 88, 87,89, when you also had different
pillars.
You had Rakim, you had Kane,you had Kairos One, you had
Coogee Rap, you had the who'swho who was dropping gems,

(01:53:26):
phenomenal albums.
So now you're building a strongfoundation, you're building a
strong house and you startadding room to that house.
In the 90s you got Big, you gotNas, you got Pop, you got Jay
coming along, you got Woo, so onand so forth.

Speaker 1 (01:53:40):
Redman.

Speaker 2 (01:53:42):
Redman right.
You got all of these outcasts,goody Mob, right Outcasts opened
the door for Goody Mob to comethrough right, although their
inception is the same time, butthey allowed Goody Mob to come
through after they establishedthemselves.

Speaker 1 (01:53:58):
Outkast is the South Gateway drug to hip-hop.
Outkast is like oh no, they gotGoodwee down there.
We all need to smoke this.

Speaker 2 (01:54:08):
Bingo.
So it made people say, okay, Iwant to hear more, but I want to
hear from that Goody Mobchamber.
And because of that the doorwas opened for those guys to
come right behind outcasts withfairly ease and they were dope
themselves Even in New York.
You know, when Nas came through, you had Mobb D.

(01:54:28):
You know you had others coming,you had CNN.

Speaker 1 (01:54:32):
You had all of that.
All Boys was big for a minute.
They were repping South Sidetoo.
Nas Voice Right, Onyx CNN.

Speaker 3 (01:54:39):
You had all of that, all Boys was big for a minute.

Speaker 1 (01:54:41):
They were repping South Side 2.
Onyx, that was just Queens.
Tribes, that's just Queens.

Speaker 2 (01:54:47):
There's a lot of talent floating around A lot of
talent.
You got Tribe, who started someof that lineage as well.
Now you're talking aboutcosigning.
You're talking about unity.
You're talking about Nas beingon Live at the Barbecue.
You're talking about Nas beingon Verbal Intercourse.
You're talking about AZ beingon Illmatic.

(01:55:07):
So you're talking about openingthe door for others to follow
because of cosign.
Think about how many albums wepurchased just because our
favorite artist was on thatalbum.

Speaker 1 (01:55:19):
I bought Door Die on a Cosign right of a.

Speaker 2 (01:55:22):
Cosign, because you saw Nas Naples on there as a
feature artist.
I want to hear Nas versebecause that's the only way I
can get it.
I can't stream it, I can't buythe single.

Speaker 1 (01:55:32):
I got to get the whole album well, my favorite
rapper is backing this guy.
He's on his album, he's in theguy's first single, like Nas is
in the Sugarhill video, exactlyso it's like oh no, no, no,
that's the reinforcement of thebacking that used to be all you

(01:55:52):
needed.
It's like oh no, this guy canrap my guy backs him like that's
like Red.
Oh no, this guy can rap, my guybacks him.
That's like Redman and EPMD.
That's all Redman needed.
It's like oh no, no, no, Iheard his verse.
It's like oh yeah, I heard hisverse.

Speaker 2 (01:56:04):
It's like, oh no, that guy and that's all you
needed, even with Jay bringingJay trying to get Bleak to be
the next one.
But you have Beans, who wasmuch better than bleak so see,
but that's see, that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:56:16):
So hip-hop, hip-hop.
Here's what really happened.
This is where the pat the thepassing of the torch stopped.
Hip-hop used to decide for you.
Yes, so when you're bringing upjay, yeah, he was trying to
give it the bleak and andsomething happened to him and to

(01:56:36):
Bleak and something happened tohim.
And you want to know whathappened to him.
Crew Love happened and all ofus said, man, nothing against
your boy.
Bleak, he's dope.
That other guy that's on therecord with him Beans, oh, that
dude is next level.
That was the first time we heardBeans on Crew Love, we was like
who in the fuck is that nigga?

(01:57:00):
That is the same effect that ithappened when you hear Snoop on
deep cover, when you hear Nason live at the barbecue.
It's one of those when you know, you know moments.
And let me tell you whathappened, because Jay has
something to do with this.
The OG stopped passing the torchwhen it was 50's turn and

(01:57:24):
that's the fucking problem, andJay is implicated in that, and
not about Bleak and not aboutBeans.
It was time to pass the torchto 50 and them dudes didn't want
to do it.
And I'm going to tell youbecause I'm one of those guys
that didn't want the torchpassed, and I'm going to tell
you why.
If you go, look at everybody inNew York who was king before,
oh, he is the least lyricallyinclined of all of them.

(01:57:46):
And New Yorkers, even when 50was taking the reins, were still
funny about their lyricists,because they're used to Rock M
and krs1 and cool g rap and bigdaddy, kane and naz and jay and
big and even kiss, and 50 doesnot fit that mold as a
traditional lyricist.
And that's where this shitchanged about ogs passing the

(01:58:09):
torch because nobody gave it to50, so 50 just had to snatch it
out of their hands.

Speaker 3 (01:58:15):
I see your point, Cooper.
I halfway agree, halfwaydisagree.
I think Nas tried to pass theTours to 50 when 50 wasn't ready
for it.
He took them on tour when hedidn't have to.

Speaker 1 (01:58:26):
You're talking two years before he's ready.

Speaker 3 (01:58:28):
He's not ready, then Right, that's what I was just
saying.
I said he wasn't ready for itthen.
And granted, m is not New York,but by that time M was an OG by
OG standards, passing it downto 50.
And he had the Dre backing too.
So he didn't have it from NY Ido see your point on that but he
did have OGs backing him.
It just happened to be two ofthe biggest, most famous OGs.

(01:58:50):

Speaker 1 (01:58:52):
But that's OK.
So, ag, everything that you'reexplaining is actually spot on.
The makeup of it changed.
That's what I mean.
It wasn't.
It wasn't him getting theco-sign from from from who
really had the torch.
Eminem never really had thetorch in hip hop eyes.
That's where the co-sign 50 is,where the co-s cosine becomes

(01:59:16):
the thing and not the torchbearing and torch passing you
don't think he had it in o2after eight miles and all that,
because I mean 50 is o3.
I think him had the torch in o2no, I mean to be honest with you
, man, I mean so.
So so this is what I mean abouthow this still works.
If you're talking O2, mostpeople walking around in O2

(01:59:40):
still think that Nas, jay, dmx,like definitely those three
Ghosted, made Supreme Clientelewhich brought Woo all the way
back and was in that mix.

Speaker 3 (01:59:58):
And it's still New York.
But the Eminem show and 8 Mileain't nothing to sneeze at and I
know y'all ain't as big ofEminem fans as I am.

Speaker 2 (02:00:06):
No, you're right.

Speaker 1 (02:00:08):
It's not anything to sneeze at.
It's actually a very, very bigmoment in hip-hop history, but
you know, to quote, J Streets istalking Can.

Speaker 3 (02:00:18):
I say this when 50 joined Eminem, Eminem was at his
hottest like we like to say,hottest fish grease.
And I really find it comparableto when Drake was brought on to
Young Money, because Wayne wasat his highest and his peak when
Drake came on there.

(02:00:39):
So it's like a power vacuum.

Speaker 1 (02:00:42):
Those moves were strategic, by Eminem and Wayne,
respectively, at the peak oftheir powers to make a power
move like that.

Speaker 3 (02:00:50):
And the difference with Jay and I hate to say this,
but y'all alluded to it withBeans.
He would never let them getthat close to him.
You know what I'm saying as faras in the ranks, that's what I
mean about cosigning instead oftorch passing.

Speaker 1 (02:01:04):
It's like oh no.

Speaker 3 (02:01:06):
Here's the thing about it.

Speaker 1 (02:01:08):
Think about it 50 always talks about.
I always ride for Eminembecause of what he did for me.
He's not necessarily he hastalked about over the years
about how close they are, butwhen he talks about what he
would do, he talks about what itdid for him.

(02:01:29):
That's a cosigner Right.

Speaker 2 (02:01:34):
That's a final line.

Speaker 1 (02:01:36):
There's a difference between somebody passing the
torch and somebody cosigning.
Input his name on the linebehind 50, not passing a torch
to 50.

Speaker 2 (02:01:45):
Yes, and that's the big point.

Speaker 1 (02:01:49):
That's where it changed,because, well, really, and AG
very astute observation abouthow Nas did take him on the tour
of Bravehearts.
That was the matter of fact.
If I'm not mistaken, that wasthe R Kelly Nas tour in 1999.

Speaker 3 (02:02:05):
It was Nostradamus tour, but I do believe R Kelly
might have been on there too.

Speaker 1 (02:02:09):
No, he had tour dates with R Kelly too, because they
came to Charlotte.
I remember because I went Damn,that's crazy, because that's
around the time Did you EverThink?
Came out, yeah, and the remixto that.
Yeah, so he.
So Nas did try to pass thetorch to 50.
You are correct about that.
But 50 was not ready, but itwas Jay's to pass.

(02:02:32):
By the time it was 50's turnand they, not passing it, set up
a confluence of circumstanceswhere an emcee from Detroit who
happens to be the biggestcellist artist in the game and a
guy from California who happensto be the biggest producer this
game has ever seen, had to comein and co-sign this guy for him
to get that torch, and that wasdifferent what Jay said in

(02:02:55):
himself, because he was in quoteunquote retirement and he tried
to pass the torch to his guys.

Speaker 3 (02:03:00):
He said this guy, 50 Cent, is coming and he's going
to crush the game.
So get y'all affairs in order,because if it's not y'all that's
doing this, then we got aproblem.
He wanted to pass the torch toone of his dudes.

Speaker 1 (02:03:12):
How about this?
Before M Cosign 50, MCs didn'tco-sign other artists of 50's
stature.
They passed the torch.
The producers co-signed.
This is what I mean about aproducer co-signing Marley
Marlhill's Big Daddy Kanerap-averse outside the front
door of his apartment is like no, no, no, you come back.

Speaker 3 (02:03:37):
Co-sign 50 had both.
No, no, no, you come back,Cosines.
Well, 50 had both.
He had Drake too.
That's what I mean about howthat's where it changed.

Speaker 1 (02:03:43):
It's like no, he had the artist and the producer and
shit.
They're like oh no, everybodyon the cosign now it's like it
used to be.
It used to be the producerwould be like I got this guy
that can rap Dr Dre and Snoop.
I got this guy who can rap youknow.

Speaker 2 (02:03:56):
Right.
But that's the thing, coop.
It's not a cosign anymore.
I mean, it's not a torchanymore, it's a cosign, because
what artist really passed thetorch?
I hear what you're saying, ag,but Nas never really passed the
torch to 50.
He cosigned 50.
He said, yo, 50 is the future.
That's not the same as passingthe torch, because, again,
rapping is all about.

Speaker 1 (02:04:16):
I'm the one.
This is what I'm looking at.
So people pass the torchdifferently.
Though, sean, I've heard somestories about how, you know,
g-rap wouldn't give Nas the sametype of shit that he was giving
the other MCs in the studio,because he could hear a guy like

(02:04:39):
he could hear Nas rapping andwas hearing the stuff that large
pro was paying for him and it'slike oh no, he talked shit to a
lot of them other dudes abouttheir rap skills as opposed to
his, but even with a young Nas,he didn't necessarily talk to
Nas that way because he couldhear what is coming.
There is some torch passing inthose moments because, because
different people pass the torchdifferently Like G is a gangster

(02:05:01):
, so he's not about to like youknow what I'm saying, just be
like oh, here you go.
But his way of passing it maynot be to talk shit about you
and give you the shit in frontof everybody the way he is all
these other dudes that's in thestudio.
He might let you just sit overthere and write in silence
instead.

Speaker 2 (02:05:20):
But I don't think just one person had the torch to
pass.
It is what I'm saying.
Like even with Rakim, right?
I don't think even duringRakim's reign he didn't have the
torch, just isolated to sayhere, here's to Nas or here's to
whoever, like Big said there'sto whoever Like Big said.

Speaker 3 (02:05:39):
Rakim didn't pass Nas anything, if we're being
correct.

Speaker 2 (02:05:42):
Hold on hold on.
He never passed to anyone.

Speaker 1 (02:05:46):
I don't agree because the two most isolated moments
that I can think of of oneperson having the ring is
actually Rakim and Jayrespectively, for about a year,
year and a half, where it's like, oh no they got it.

Speaker 3 (02:05:59):
And there's nothing you can do about it.
Let me say well, let me saythis real quick, because I think
y'all are saying two differentthings, or hold it, sean, it
sounds like you're putting moreweight on the passing the torch
and Coop.
You put more weight on thecosigner.
But let's just break down thedefinition of cosigner.
So all of us, you knowsuccessful men that secured a

(02:06:20):
lot of loans.
Sometimes people can't secureloans in this world unless you
have somebody put the name onthe dotted line for you in order
to get certain things.
But I'm just saying like,that's how the world works
sometimes.
So what koopa's saying isactually right, though, because
50 had eminem and dre put theirlike names on the line for his

(02:06:44):
success.
Naz, cosign, az, az got a dealbehind.
Life's a bitch and stuff likethat.
I think past passing the torchis less formal.
Like when naz was rapping on um, uh, the made nas proud.
The response to the j cole likelet nas down.
He said yo, here's the crown,there's nothing, I pass it to
you.
Like you know, blah, blah, blah.
Like that's a passing of thetorch moment.

(02:07:06):
Like yo, it's a wink, it's aknock.
I tip my cap.
I see you carrying on traditionof what I'm doing, so I'm
passing the torch to you.
But he didn't co-sign J Cole,because co-sign would be like
put my name on the line likeWayne did for Drake.
I think the co-sign is theheavier weighted thing.

Speaker 2 (02:07:29):
There's no such thing to me asreally passing that torch,
because in hip-hop it's toocompetitive to say here, here
you have it.
Because even from Rakim yougotta think about.
Ll was there and LL thoughtthat he was the one.
So many people thought thatthey were the one.
Where it's hard to say, thissingular person honestly has the

(02:07:49):
crown to pass, even when Bigwas in his prime.
What he said he said there were.
No, I don't have any peers inhis prime.
What he said he said there were.
No, I don't have any peers inhis rap name.

Speaker 3 (02:08:02):
In so many ways he did pass the torch to Jay.
A lot of people like to frameit like Jay just picked it up
after Big died.
But Big respected who Jay wasin real time when they both were
alive and Jay is one of theemcees that Biggie.
It's documented that Biggiefeared Jay-Z.
Passing the torch.

Speaker 1 (02:08:21):
Yeah, I don't know if that's passing the torch.
So when Jay is calling theconversation where he plays, big
Streets is Watching and Big islike the whole album is like
this.
Yeah, it's the whole album likethis.
I don't think he got to passthe torch, but I think if he did
, that's the person he's goingto how do you know that Big

(02:08:42):
wasn't saying that from theperspective of like oh no, I can
do that and make bigger records.
I can up the ante.
That's what they do that'scompetitive nature is Big saying
it like, oh, I'm concerned.
Or is Big saying it like, oh, Ialready got you because I do
that and I do the other thingbetter?

Speaker 3 (02:09:00):
I think it's more out of concern.

Speaker 1 (02:09:02):
You think it's out of concern.
I do, but it's a matter ofperspective.
But here's what I'm saying.
As much as I love Streets isWatching, it's not better than
Ten Crack Commandments to me,because the creative license and
the delivery on 10 crackamendments like, like sometimes,
sometimes being rooted in thereality of it can hurt you as a
writer.
When you're up against somebodylike I don't know big, Cause

(02:09:25):
big can be rooted in the realityof it and flip the fly shit
better.

Speaker 3 (02:09:30):
But yeah, I think the passing the torch is less you
know, it's more informal.
Like we, I'm looking at it likea relay, like yo, you carry it
on, you know what I done startedoff and you carrying it on and
you carrying it even further.
You might spin back and like Itake it back again or whatever.
But cosigning I think likecareers are built off of
cosigning Absolutely.

(02:09:52):

Speaker 2 (02:09:53):
The passing of the torch thing is more informal, to
me In hip-hop, it's hard topass that torch because it's too
competitive.
That's true.
You're looking at the field andyou're saying, oh, they're
doing that.
I've got to go back and do this.
What Big said, you took Ray, datook home study shit.
Come on.

(02:10:14):
He's saying you're taking whatI'm saying and you're trying to
do what I'm doing at a high clipbecause now you're raising the
bar.
It's not passing the torchanymore, it's raising the bar.
All those guys Nas, big Prodigy, ray that was the four at one
point Remember 95, that was thefour.
They were raising the bar witheach other.

(02:10:35):
When Cuba Link came out, it seta whole different style when it
came to Mafioso rap.
That's all G-Rap though Exactly,but guess who raised the bar.

Speaker 1 (02:10:50):
G-Rap is kind of like the author of it, but what the
purple tape does is up the ante,because what you have is you
have them actually adoptingaliases and you actually have
them talking about things and,quite frankly, like Arthur Meyer
, lansky, cristal, like all thatI found out, about that from
the purple tape.
Is that?

Speaker 3 (02:11:11):
not what you're supposed to do.
I just said is that not whatyou're supposed to do?
I said if you're past the batonand the relay you're supposed
to do.
I just said is that not whatyou're supposed to do?
I said if you're past the batonand the relay, you're supposed
to take it faster and further,correct?

Speaker 1 (02:11:22):
Yeah, so how about this?
The foundation that G-Rap laid,it's like the purple tape is
the upping of the ante of that,but in the upping of the ante it
actually became the standardbearer, because now it's the
benchmark, because nothing hasreally surpassed it since it's
and while we on Mafioso, to thatpoint Coop remember, I said on

(02:11:43):
this show I still, to this day,think we don't get an.

Speaker 3 (02:11:46):
It Was Written if Doe or Die is made, I don't think
we get that album.
I don't know man, that's thebridge piece from Illmatic that
shows the direction of where itwas going next.

Speaker 2 (02:12:00):
I think it was written because of the success
of Ready to Die.

Speaker 3 (02:12:05):
That was the culprit.
What put him in that mode?
But A was already there.

Speaker 1 (02:12:10):
I think what he did with it Was Written was try to
take the infamous and ready todie and do his best take.
I think.

Speaker 2 (02:12:21):
Cuban Link plays a part in that too.
Cuban Link too.

Speaker 1 (02:12:25):
I think Cuban Link is influencing the scope, but I'm
talking in terms of the recordsbeing made.
I think there's a lot of readyto die.
Infamous influence on.
It Was Written in terms of theapproach.

Speaker 3 (02:12:37):
Go, listen, to Do or Die.
I was written in terms of theapproach yeah, but go go listen
to do or die?
I don't think it gets thecredit.
The best thing about Illmaticand the best things about it was
written.
It's the perfect companion andbridge piece between the two
albums.
And who was Nas running with atthe time?
Az?

Speaker 1 (02:12:52):
No, I mean do or die.
Do or die is actually the firstuh rap album that I bought with
my own money.
Uh, I bought the tape when itcame out and so, like no, door
die is like that peopleunderstand.
Like door die has a lot ofclassic records on it and very
few misses, very few actually, Imean, if any, I can't think of

(02:13:15):
one I don't love the beat to weDon't Win, and as much as I love
Uncut Raw, I would havepreferred a different intro,
even though I love that record.
I would have preferred adifferent intro, because I feel
like a different intro wouldhave helped that album achieve
the instant classic status.

Speaker 3 (02:13:34):
It would have been a better executive production.

Speaker 2 (02:13:37):
I was just about to say that, because after you hear
Cuban Link in 95, and then yougo in here, it's tough man, it's
just, it's not fair.

Speaker 1 (02:13:50):
The sequencing could have been better.
I don't love Uncut Raw goinginto Gimme Yours.
I love both of those recordsseparately, though I agree
Separately, like isolated, bothof those records are brilliant
to me.

Speaker 3 (02:14:05):
It's too much of a shift.
It's too much of a shift.

Speaker 1 (02:14:07):
To start off the album Right Gimme, yours is too
early.
It's a banger, but it's tooearly.
Matter of fact, they could haveeven flipped.
How about this?
Even if you want to flip, giveme yours and Rather Unique.
Love Rather Unique, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:14:30):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:14:31):
Rather Unique is one of Pete Rock's more underrated
production jobs too.

Speaker 3 (02:14:34):
Crazy, bro, crazy.
Let me ask you all this realquick Do y'all think in my mind,
I think that Chuck D passed thetorch to Q?
What?

Speaker 2 (02:14:43):
do y'all say to that I can see that.
I can see that, because Q wasradical, just like Chuck D.

Speaker 1 (02:14:49):
Well, his production team produced his first solo
album, so that's how he passed.
He was in that camp and IceCube is very much Chuck D West
and always has been orator wise,they're in the same wheelhouse.

Speaker 3 (02:15:02):
You know, I'm saying they're both natural orators
radical guys strongpersonalities, content driven
rappers.

Speaker 2 (02:15:13):
They didn't care yeah , alright, let's get to some
super chats, right quick rappers.

Speaker 1 (02:15:17):
They didn't care.
Yeah, freedom of speech.
Let's get to some super chats,right, quick.
Throw the first one up, becauseit already passed me by.
It's my mere thoughts.
I know I saw my mere thoughtsup in there.
Pull it up.
There we go.
After Kenny Cole and Drake,hip-hop will get dark, that's a
fact.

Speaker 2 (02:15:34):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (02:15:36):
Brandon Rogers with the $10.
Appreciate you, brandon.
Only built for Cuban leagueshad a pretty solid sequel.
We spoke to that.
Absolutely it's one of the bestsequels ever.
It's not still Matic or 2001level, but it's.
It's up there.
Jermaine Johnson $4.99.
We need our listeners to dropsequels because unfortunately
there are no great mainstreamMCs under the age of 30.
It literally doesn't exist.

(02:15:57):
It's a fact.
Ooh, it's a fact.
That might be a show topic foranother day.
That's a show topic for anotherday.
Ill Magic with the $9.99.
If there was a biopic movie onLauryn Hill, who would y'all
want to play her?
My pick is Ryan Destiny.
I saw her in the ClarissaShields movie and was shocked by

(02:16:18):
how much she favored Lauren somuch.

Speaker 3 (02:16:22):
I would want I can't think of her name right now the
lady that played in Us and inBlack Panther.

Speaker 1 (02:16:31):
Lupita.

Speaker 3 (02:16:33):
Lupita yeah, I'd like Lupita to play.

Speaker 1 (02:16:39):
So it's now the wrong time for me to pick Delicious
from Instagram.
No, no, no, not Delicious.
Okay, so moving on.
No Bad time, alright, keep upwith the Super Chicks.

Speaker 3 (02:16:52):
No, the chick that play.
The chick that play Walmartlike drawing a blank Walking
Dead and Black Panther as well.
Yo nah, the chick that play.
The chick that play Walmartlike draw on a blank Walking
Dead and Black Panther as well.

Speaker 1 (02:17:02):
But have you seen the little brown skin?

Speaker 3 (02:17:03):
thing Nah nah.
You don't think the nah wouldkill?
I think the nah would kill that.

Speaker 1 (02:17:09):
Have you seen Delicious on IG?
You know the little brown skinthing I'm talking about.
No, just ask questions, justask questions, just ask
questions, ask questions.
Public has a right to know howyou feel about delicious.
I'm going to send you guys acouple links.
Definitely my thing.

Speaker 2 (02:17:30):
I know LP might be looking for it right now, though
.
Not too old man, Respectfully.

Speaker 1 (02:17:38):
Whoa, that sounded disrespectful.
With that, we're going to go.

Speaker 3 (02:17:41):
Lupita would be the better choice.
Lupita would be the betterchoice and her acting range is
great Speaking of disrespect.

Speaker 1 (02:17:50):
Gentlemen, it is time to get to this week's Discord
dialogue.
As we close this show, theDiscord has decided and said
that we are going to talk abouta little bit of state property.
D-block rap wars.
Sean, you kicked us off.

(02:18:11):
You was in the mix, was I?

Speaker 2 (02:18:14):
oh my goodness, I was never tell those stories live
again man, ever get a chance tosee something like that again.
Ever, ever, ever, ever, um, oneof the best times in hip-hop.
Man, you know where he stayedprop, going up to font flex and
doing that freestyle um, goingcrazy.

(02:18:34):
I didn't like it.
I'm not gonna going to lie toyou.
I hated it.
I hated it.
We wanted to jump in the carand go up there and see what
time it was, because we allhated it.
Because he started off with Nas,all of those guys started off
with Nas, and then they startedgoing into Kiss and then they
started going into Styles and itwas a funny time because they

(02:18:55):
already had music together youknow Rockefeller State, you know
, and the locks, and theyalready had, you know, tours
together and everything.
So there was some connectivetissue.
And, you know, new York lookedat Philly as a little brother.
Respect to Philly, you know.
But New York looked at Phillyas a little brother, like how

(02:19:16):
dare you?
You know, come at us like this.
And this was really part ofthat big Philly wave that was
coming through.
Rockefeller was a big part ofthat big Philly wave, with Beans
leading the charge and Freewayright there beside him.
It was crazy because in realtime, I could never fathom, I
could never concede to the factthat it was.
Even at that time, I'll behonest, I felt like yo.

(02:19:39):
You know?
Lox, jada, we're killing themright now.
Yonkers, we're killing themright now.

Speaker 1 (02:19:45):
People understand how nice Beans was, Beans.
That day was going at Nas andKiff and Styles and I was
worried and had legitimate causeto be worried because he was
like that.
I was like, oh, I was like thisis like this.

(02:20:06):
I was like, oh, no, I was likenot with this dude.

Speaker 3 (02:20:09):
Jay had that boy on the front line.
I'm like the other dudes arenice.

Speaker 1 (02:20:15):
The other dudes can rap, yes, but that was the day
that Beans, I was like, oh, I'mlike.
The other dudes are nice.
The other dudes can rap, yes,but that was the day that Beans,
I was like, oh, I'm like, butthis dude, I'm like.
This dude built different,because he built for the moment.
No, he about the, he about the.
He was just going and going andI was like, oh no, I was like
he here like he I'm like I'mlike this is a problem.
I'm like he's a whole problem,like he's the first dude, he's

(02:20:37):
died you on a holiday.

Speaker 2 (02:20:40):
Styles, died you on a holiday Like he was going crazy
.
Man Damn flexing.

Speaker 1 (02:20:44):
Yeah, oh my goodness, no, no, no.
He went berserk.
He was the first dude that Iheard go at somebody like of
their caliber and I was like, ohno, they need to be worried
right now.
Like I don't know, Like Ididn't heard him.
I knew he was like that, but no, he liked that, like that, Like
when he got done, I said hemight end up being one of the

(02:21:04):
five greatest MCs of all time.
That was my takeaway from himwalking out of Hot 97.
I was like he might end upbeing one of the five greatest
MCs of all time.
Like it might go Nas, Big J,Rocky and Beans.

Speaker 3 (02:21:15):
Look, nas wasn't speaking hyperbole on Ethan when
he said compared to Beans, youwhack.
Like I mean that wasn't.
I mean Beans was really likethat.
Like people know that wasn'ttrue but it wasn't a far-fetched
claim.

Speaker 1 (02:21:32):
How about this?
The boogeyman that popped outthat kendrick showed sometimes
you gotta pop out and showniggas, right?
The boogeyman that finallypopped out in 2024 that kendrick
showed after 14, 15 years inthis game?
Oh, no, beans showed us that inabout the first six months.
You want to talk about someboogeyman shit.
That was what that was.
When people be talking about,it's like yo coop, like when I

(02:21:54):
be talking about the happy beats.
I got that from beans when theyplayed nas is like and told him
to rap over, he was like cutthem happy, beats off yo you
know I'm thinking like you donot talk about nas is like like
that.
And then I'm thinking about it.
It's like oh no, this dude isnice enough to talk like that
because he might go rap over thebeat and sound just as good as
nas.
And I can't remember nothingbut a handful of times that I

(02:22:17):
felt that way about a rapper.
It was a stellar moment.

Speaker 3 (02:22:20):
Flex got a little too giddy when he said that I
didn't like that man.

Speaker 1 (02:22:23):
Oh, I mean he did.
That was the JFA.

Speaker 3 (02:22:26):
That was the.

Speaker 1 (02:22:26):
JFA.
Now you know Elliot and FunkFlex love Jace Frodum.
All right, now Wing it on thatmotherfucker.
Yeah, but not Flex anymore.

Speaker 2 (02:22:40):
Flex.
He been calling that Jay.

Speaker 1 (02:22:44):
No, no, no, it's too late.
Once you done swang from theballs, you know what I'm saying
I mean them checks might havestopped coming.
Checks definitely stoppedcoming.
That's when the attitudechanged.
It became a real mediapersonality again.
But that's when the that's.
That's when the attitudechanged.
It became a real mediapersonality again.
But that's neither here northere, you know.
But but it.
But it was great times.

(02:23:04):
Man, the empire strikes backmixtape, all the d-block drops
and stuff.
But who do you think won thebattle?

Speaker 3 (02:23:10):
ag, I think you should take over right here so
before, before I go, I'm gonnalet sean finish his thought.
You know I'm saying because hewas.

Speaker 1 (02:23:17):
You know I'm saying I'm good, okay, um real, real
quick.

Speaker 3 (02:23:22):
Before I get into who I think won, which, well, no, I
answered that first.
I think overall it was a tie.
I think this is the onlyhip-hop battle that I will call
a tie.
Um, it was just like that, butme personally, I was ruling, uh,
rooting for Jadakiss, the Locks, d-block and J-Hood Don't get
it twisted.
It was a problem around thistime it was a problem.

Speaker 1 (02:23:44):
And rest in Charlotte , North Carolina.

Speaker 3 (02:23:46):
But one of my homies when I was in the dorms at
college.
He was from Philly.
Rest in peace to Dan.
You would have thought, havethought, when they went up there
and did those freestyles andwas killing every Nas Mobb Deep
or what it locks be, you wouldhave thought that state property
was the Wu-Tang fan man.

(02:24:08):
Because I never.
Dan would remind me every day,like yo, they're killing your
bulls, like you know what I mean.
Like they're killing your bull,nas.
They're killing your bulls Likeyou know what I mean.
Like they're killing your bull,nas.
They're killing your bull likeProdigy.
He would tell me every day butit was undeniable man.
And what I got most out of thatbeef of the crews back and forth

(02:24:30):
was, you know, street dudes,just real gutter rhymes going
back and forth.
But the youngins like was like16, chris and neef was like 16,
17, they were like dogs on themic and they were getting after
it.
You know I'm saying didn't evenhave albums out.
Like they were, you know,starving for a deal or whatever

(02:24:50):
and they was giving it their all.
So that's what I took the mostfrom it is the youngins like
really, really cooking.
But you know, if you, if you'renot familiar with this battle,
do yourself a favor, go onYouTube, type in D-Block versus
state property and I'm sureit'll be like a playlist of 20

(02:25:18):
videos or more, because you'llhear every freestyle.
That's why I said we lived in agreat time with this draken um
kendrick battle, whereeverything with social media is
rapid fire, like, oh, 40 minuteslater, kendrick drop and then
the next day drop again, andthen we get this and we get that
, but it's not.
There's nothing new under thesun.
This is not something wehaven't seen before.
If you was alive during thisbattle back and forth, I'm
telling you like, and I thinksome people have it mixed up too

(02:25:41):
.

Speaker 1 (02:25:41):
It's not like Beans and his freestyle, like they
weren't really taking shots atNas, it was more the in-between
talking shit.

Speaker 3 (02:25:48):
Right, it was, but the bars were in there.
But, like I said, it's nothingnew under the sun.
Stuff was getting releasedliterally every day.
Nothing new under the sun.
Stuff was getting releasedliterally every day.
If you couldn't get to thebodega and cop the mixtape that
had all the joints compiled onthere, all you had to do was it
wasn't the youtube back then,but it was napster, it was
limewire and you had the blogs,yeah, and you had kaza and you

(02:26:11):
had the blog sites.
That was like, it was likehip-hop game and you had um,
allhiphopcom, yeah sohhcom yeahsocom.
It was the blogs like that thatwere on fire, because one joint
would come out the next day.
Less than 24 hours, anotherjoint would come out, and joe

(02:26:33):
budden even spoke to this on hispodcast.
They didn't care.
It was like forget mixing andmastering, I'm going into the
studio, I'm blazing, I'm gettingback at this dude and then I'm
putting the record out.
You know I'm saying it was sorapid fire we couldn't keep up.
So you know, a lot of peoplewere going crazy over this drake
and kendrick thing in thatregard.
But we lived that, you know I'msaying, 20 years ago, and what a

(02:26:54):
time it was to be alive, man.
It was really, really dope.
I'll call it a draw.
And you know I just wanted to,you know, highlight something
real quick.
We revisited this and this issomething me and Sean always
said.
We got the time stone in ourpossession and, going into 2025,

(02:27:15):
you know Hip hop talks want togive you all original content
and you know what I'm saying.
We wanted to revamp uh, discorddialogues a little bit.
So, instead of really focusingon just specifically artists or,
you know, producers or whatever, we want to focus on specific
times in hip hop.
You know what I mean, becauseevents mark time and we have

(02:27:37):
these big events that everybody,if you weren't there to live it
, it's not a lot of pods outthere covering stuff like this.
So we wanted to take it back,use the time stone and revisit
this classic moment and give itto the people.
You know what I'm saying,because we can't take for
granted that everybody'sfamiliar with this stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:27:59):
Well, give it to the people.
You know what I'm saying,because we can't take for
granted that everybody'sfamiliar with this stuff.
Well, you want to know what AG?
I thought about something whenyou said something, and then we
can go to our press play andfinish up the hip-hop blog site
world as we know it, thismixtape war and beef between
them two has a lot to do withthe existence of those sites and
the hits that they got and thetraction that they garnered that

(02:28:21):
ended up turning into theyoutube thing, because I know
this ag for a fact.
Every day you went onhiphopgamecom to see if somebody
dropped a new dish, just likeevery single day I skipped class
to like just be on those blogs,bro, just so we can get to a
desktop and get to the audio,because this is back in the time
where you couldn't get to thattype of audio if you had a phone

(02:28:43):
.
Yes, weren't available, so youhad to get to a desktop and,
trust me, I was slinging burntcds.

Speaker 3 (02:28:51):
I was trying to be the first one that had all them
joints, burn them on a cd, thenhit the campus and sell them
joints.
Man, for real, you'd havethought I was an artist, trying
to be the first one to have allthem joints, burn them on a CD,
then hit the campus and sellthem joints.
Man, for real, you would havethought I was an artist trying
to push my own stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:29:00):
For real, that's all I did every day I stayed with
this cool-ass white boy who wasa pie cap and he had this
big-ass Mac computer.
This is like some of the firstMac desktops.
Them things used to be massive.
They used them.
Things used to be massive likethey used to literally take up
the whole desk, but he used tolet me jump on on his line
wiring on his website and on hisinternet.
All the time and every day Iwould go and get on hip-hop game

(02:29:23):
or hip-hop sitecom and see whodropped what.
And this was start.
This is kind of what startedthe whole youtube era before the
youtube era.
This is this is actually even alittle bit before the myspace
thing you'd like.
So this is right around myspace, but this is a little bit
before the.
Myspace thing.
This is right around MySpace,but this is a little bit before
MySpace too.
Guys had blown up and this wasthe thing, this was the move,
and to your point.

Speaker 3 (02:29:42):
Coop, this was the undercard and if you was tuned
into this you was really Ahead.
Yeah, you was really aheadbecause the Jay-Z and Nas thing
was so big.
It was the main event.
It was the main event, but thiswas arguably more entertaining
and you was really ahead if youwas tuned into this battle

(02:30:02):
because they was really goingfor it.
I just think that it doesn'tget the publicity and the shine
that it got because of Jay-Z andNas, but this battle, kins and
Beans was on the front lines.

Speaker 2 (02:30:19):
I think it did AJ.

Speaker 1 (02:30:22):
Some of it is timing, and this is what I mean.
For a hip-hop head, you canactually say that the state prop
D-block thing was more excitingbecause it was more engaging
and more active.
I can remember arguing aboutjay and oz before the beef
happened in live time.

(02:30:43):
We was already.
We was already aggy with eachother about that part of it.
This was a pleasant surpriseand so that's why I got the
traction that it got like whatjay and oz was doing.
If you was paying attention, weall seen this coming since about
97, 98, right.
So this was years in the making, the whole D-Block State prop
thing popping up like that.

(02:31:04):
And it popped up that day atHot 9-7, it was like whoa.
And then you started hearingthe Locke story about the
Reservoir Dog session and you'relike, oh, there's some, oh
there.
And you're like, oh, there'ssome, oh, there's a little
friction in here going on,because Beans is in that session
, sauce is in that session, jayis in that session and that's
also too where the ether bar youpop shit.

(02:31:24):
Apologize, nigga.
Just ask Kiss.
This is the day that Nas isreferring to about Jay
apologizing about, because thisis where they got disrespectful
and D-Block hadn't said aboutstate prop right.

Speaker 3 (02:31:39):
Well, here's the thing quite frankly, here's the
thing to tie it up they didn'tknow yeah, yeah, they didn't
know the rest of the cast.
But to kind of tie it all intogether, um, we talked about
how drake went at all his opsand he should have just focused
on more.
So, on Kendrick and then Coopyou alluded to like on takeover,

(02:32:00):
jay should have focused acouple of verses on Nas versus a
couple of verses on prodigy orwhatever.
But during that time Jay has somany ops that he had to like,
okay, I'm gonna focus on prodigy, I'm going to focus on Nas.
But Kiss was coming up theranks too, because in 2001,

(02:32:21):
other than Prodigy's solo, itwasn't nobody more anticipated
than Kiss.
Yes, it was anticipated, butJay-Z knew not to bite off more
than he could chew.
Like yo, I'm going to have myhands full with Nas and P, pause
.
But like Beans, you go overthere and you get that guy.
You know what I'm saying,because Beans and Jada didn't
have a problem, but Jay-Z neededBeans to go handle that while

(02:32:46):
he took care of, like P and Nas,people who already had stakes
somewhat acclaimed in New York'shierarchy.
Jada Kidds hadn't staked anyclaim in that hierarchy yet
really, he was right.

Speaker 1 (02:33:04):
Okay.
So part of me does still feellike J put him up to the Bean
side of things or to the Kissside of things.

Speaker 3 (02:33:13):
Bean said that out of his own mouth.

Speaker 1 (02:33:16):
Yeah, because if you really look at New York around
that time, kiss is the guy whohad next.
Kiss was the guy that Bigwanted to do more records with.
Kiss was the guy that they weretalking about lyrically being
the next version of Nas.
People forget this.
Jay popping up and becomingpart of this upper echelon

(02:33:36):
conversation was a surprise.
There were guys that werefirmly stamped before Jay came
along.
Prodigy was stamped, ray wasstamped, redman was stamped,
meth was stamped, nas wasstamped, big is stamped, pocket
is stamped, snoop is stamped.
Jay had to work for it.
Jay is the guy that came intothe fray and kind of messed up

(02:33:57):
the motion of how things hadbeen going and how the pace had
been dictated.
He was the unexpected guy.
A lot of the moves that he'smade have affected hip-hop for
better or worse, whether youlike it or not, because he was
the guy who unexpectedly walkedinto the room sooner than
expected.

Speaker 3 (02:34:15):
It's not only unexpectedly.
Remember you said earlier aboutoutworking your competition.

Speaker 1 (02:34:20):
Oh yeah, no, no, no, he did that clearly.
You want to know what myfavorite bar is actually when he
says and as far as progress,you'll be hard-pressed Find
another rapper hot as me,because if you listen to this
guy on In my Lifetime and thenlisten to this guy on In my
Lifetime and then listen to theguy that knows how to rap over a
sparse instrumentation likeFriend or Foe, that is two

(02:34:43):
totally different MCs and about12 months time in 12 months time
no no, no, I'm sorry his 12month turnaround from 94 to 95
into 96.
It's the greatest.
It's the greatest jumping.

Speaker 3 (02:35:02):
And we and we talked about his competitive fervor.
That's why, because Jada didhave next.
But if you're a rapper to anall time great rapper in a year
but if you're Jay Z you lookingat, okay, this is the guy they
saying got next.
I'm a stifle, Everything he'son.
I'm going to come with theFiesta remix.
I'm going to come with the Bestof Me remix.

Speaker 1 (02:35:22):
But that's because he's petty and he never had next
.
That's why I'm saying his jumpis the great.
We don't talk about it enough,because it's him.
His jump as the MC is actuallythe greatest jump in hip-hop
history.
He went from being an averageMC to an all-time great MC Him
or Wayne Wayne's in that combono, it happened for Jay in 18

(02:35:42):
months.
It took Wayne years.

Speaker 3 (02:35:44):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:35:45):
It was years of an evolution, of Wayne changing and
upgrading Jay, literally.

Speaker 2 (02:35:52):
He was just using the entity flow.

Speaker 3 (02:35:54):
That was the difference I think it was harder
for Wayne because him beingfrom down south, he had more
going against him as far astraditional lyricists and up
north New York rappers.

Speaker 1 (02:36:05):
But Wayne didn't have to switch pace the way Jay
switched pace.
Jay literally had to dial backhard guys.
That's why I'm saying the guythat's rapping like, the guy
that's rapping like is the sameguy that's on friend or foe.

Speaker 3 (02:36:22):
A year later going friend or foe, yo state your biz
, yeah All jokes aside, we crownhim for the flow days, but I
think that actually helped him.
I think once he realized hewouldn't get traction with that,
because if we name him the bestflows ever in the game, jay-z's
up there.
I think everything got in slowmotion for him, like Neo in the

(02:36:44):
Matrix, where he's like you knowwhat I'm saying, like this and
catching bullets and doing allthat.
I think when Jay slowed it down, it was like everything was in
slow motion for him.

Speaker 1 (02:36:53):
Even when this is what I mean about his growth
slow motion for him.
This is what I mean about hisgrowth.
You can even hear the growth onReasonable Doubt.
He is rapping slower on thePreem tracks, which you can tell
came later than he is on theClark Kent tracks.
Go listen to.
Can't Knock the Hustle.
Y'all niggas munching, punchingthe clock.
My function is to make munching.
Sitting back, munching, sippingRemy on the rocks, my crew

(02:37:14):
nothing to stop and wanting towatch Unstoppable scheme on your
crew.
I got.

Speaker 3 (02:37:17):
No, he's still rapping like that on.

Speaker 1 (02:37:19):
Reasonable Doubt.
He's still rapping on that,like that song.
So like his, yeah, the jump is.
It's stellar guys.
Sean, I know you hate that wewaxing poetic.
Okay, let's just go to pressplay and get out of here, let's
go to press play and get out ofhere.

Speaker 3 (02:37:35):
88 Spence.
Sean got a whole scowl on hisface.

Speaker 1 (02:37:37):
Let's go, sean is so stand-alone right now.
Let's just go to press play andend the show.
Let's talk about the 88 Spence.

Speaker 2 (02:37:45):
Yo, 88 Spence went on when Jada said in Philly.
He said send Seagull to Wyomingriding again.
We're getting it on.
Throw your man leg on the lawnand throw your man leg on the
lawn, he can't walk.
That was bold.
I think Spence was in the crowdlooking at him crazy.

Speaker 3 (02:38:02):
He got batteries and stuff, though they went crazy.
They was throwing full sodacans at him.

Speaker 2 (02:38:09):
Spence threw a battery at him.
Spence threw a battery at him.
I bet it.
Let's press, play guys, let'splay AG.
You got to kick us, so I hadyou line up first alright, no
doubt I was in the holidayspirit.

Speaker 3 (02:38:25):
You know what I'm saying for my press play.
I'm doing, yeah, christmastheme related joints going into
the new year's first up.
I got, you know, shoot them up.
My nas off nostradamus, youknow saying the interpolation of
uh.
You know carol of the bells,you know the christmas song and

(02:38:46):
um, that's one of the highlightsof nostradamus.
I know this album gets uh panneda lot but that's one of the
dopest joints on there.
You know, yeah, havoc on thebeat nas killed the flow and
that interpolation of carol ofthe bells.
They executed it perfectly butit's a grimy, grimy street track
, you know, over a christmasmelody.

(02:39:06):
So love that joint and keepingthat same energy.
We talked about this uh recorda few shows ago.
Um, iron flag, another.
It's a woo album.
That's not that great but Ilove dashing reasons.
Taking Jingle Bells and themelody and killing it the way
that comes in on the verse thatbodies it, followed by GZA.

(02:39:30):
I love it when those two are ona track together, just them
sparring.
Love that track.
They killed the Jingle Bellsmelody.

Speaker 2 (02:39:38):
Next up What'd you say?
Sean Never liked that song man.

Speaker 3 (02:39:42):
Oh, I love it.
I think it's a dope way to endthe album you don't like,
dashing.
Never liked it.

Speaker 1 (02:39:46):
I think it's one of the better songs on Iron Flag.

Speaker 3 (02:39:48):
Yeah, I thought it was a strong way to end the
album.

Speaker 1 (02:39:51):
High five on that album.

Speaker 3 (02:39:58):
Yeah of them.
Yeah, I agree, cool um.
Next I got outcast players ballin, particularly the christmas
version.
A lot of people may not knowthat in late 93, christmas, 93,
outcast debut, you know, forthat single was on a la face
compilation, la face familychristmas, and the original
version, which you'll never gethere heard, played nowadays, you
know I saying when the playersball is happening on Christmas
Day.
But to reach a wider audienceand to keep the life of the

(02:40:21):
track going, they changed it forthe album version.
They say all day, every day youknow what I'm saying which was
genius.
But the origins of this trackwas for a Christmas compilation.
A lot of people don't know thatthis is one of the greatest hip
hop songs of all time.
So got that joint on there.
Now I can make ATL proud.

Speaker 1 (02:40:41):
Love that you know the history of it and the proper
history of it.

Speaker 3 (02:40:43):
Oh, a hundred percent , a hundred percent.
And then for my last joint wetalked about fab earlier and I
can't speak enough about thistrack.
Like who plays, uh, take it inblood.
Every birthday, every newyear's, I play this song ball
drop by fab and french montanalove this record.
It's appropriate and what Iwill say, that young og project

(02:41:07):
from fab for me personally.
I don't know if y'all disagree,but that's one of the better
projects of the last decade.
It came out christ Christmas of14.

Speaker 1 (02:41:16):
So you know what I'm saying?
I was about to say when youtalking, okay.

Speaker 3 (02:41:19):
Yeah, it came out Christmas of 14.
So it was a few days, you knowolder than a decade.
But that whole project, a lotof people slept on that that
whole project is fire from frontto back.

Speaker 1 (02:41:30):
I slept on that project.
I got to it late, you're right.

Speaker 3 (02:41:37):
Yeah, that project is fire.
Fab did his thing.
He's going crazy on there, butevery New Year's I revisit that
song.
When the ball dropped, thatsong comes on for me.
Played it last night, I meannight before last, matter of
fact, dope.

Speaker 2 (02:41:50):
You up, my man.

Speaker 1 (02:41:52):
You know, when I heard about the Discord dialogue
thing I don't know if you guysnoticed I'm a big fan of Beanie
Siegel and I feel like what hashappened to Beans is arguably
the most tragic case in hip-hophistory that doesn't involve

(02:42:13):
somebody losing their life,because I feel like if this guy
signs to anybody else aroundthat time and if he can keep his
legal difficulties at a minimumand by minimum I mean a TI
minimum I think we are lookingat one of the 10 greatest MCs of

(02:42:35):
all time.
Easy and a top five candidate.
He is the only guy that I haveheard post Nas and Jay in their
prime that, just off ofeverything that he brings to the
table, would present a problemto them in their prime.

(02:42:57):
A legitimate problem, becausehe is more ferocious on the mic
than both of them Delivery wise.
Delivery wise, he is betterthan a prime Nas and comparable
to a prime J.
I will say this version of Nasthat we have gotten during the

(02:43:18):
hit boy run has a betterdelivery, but delivery wise he
is better than nas, lyricallywise better than j, and so my
press play is has is my favorite.
Four solo records for him thathave no features.
So we're going to go to numberone, which is Feel it In the Air
.
Feel it In the Air when is this?

(02:43:41):
This is 2005?
I think it's 2005.
Right, yes, okay.
So Feel it In the Air droppedas soon as the year started.
It dropped this time in 2005.
I can remember when Feel it Inthe Air dropped, saying to

(02:44:02):
myself if rap songs are going tosound this great this year,
we're about to have a great year.
This was the first perfectrecord I heard in 2005.
And I still think it's one ofBean's favorite records, and he
even references this record interms of recording it without
writing it, which is one of thefirst records.
He did like that because Jayhad been working with him to
make his flow sicker by notwriting, and so he didn't write
this record, and you can justhear where his delivery has just

(02:44:23):
improved from him not writingthe rhymes down anymore, which
is crazy because his deliverywas already sick.
Next we got look at me now.
Look at me now is actually myfavorite beans song.
It is one of the mostunderrated songs in his catalog.
It is the song right before thesong everybody talks about,
which is the duo with Jay.

(02:44:43):
It's on, but this is the songwhere you actually get the
Philly version of beans.
That actually explains hiscomeuppance from the streets to
Rockefeller to actually thetribulations that he's going
through to becoming a successfulman from his circumstances.
I love Look at Me Now.
It's my favorite Beans recordand these are all solo shots, by
the way, he has no help,because I have other records

(02:45:04):
that I love that I could havepicked, like One Shot Deal with
Redman, but these are all Beanssolo shots because I think
people really need to dig intoBeans' catalog and see how truly
brilliant he was.
My next choice is what's yourLife Like?
Yeah, what's your Life Like?
Yeah, what's your Life Like?
Bar-wise is probably the bestrecord on his debut album, the

(02:45:26):
Truth.
I think what's your Life Likeepitomizes what Beans brings to
the table as an MC.
I think something that doesn'tget stated often enough.
Bean's got a lot of Ray in him.
Like he gives you that gritty,unfiltered street talk the way
Ray does.
It just doesn't have the highslang.

(02:45:47):
It's not the slang linguisticsand the fly talk ain't his fly.
He's a more gritty, grimierversion of Ray, which seems
crazy to say.
But when I listen to what's yourlife like, I'm like this is the
type of record ray would haveput on the purple tape had he
made it.
And so what's your life like isa purple tape level like street

(02:46:08):
record to me, because heliterally is talking about what
life is like for people likeinside prison not jail but
prison and, last but not least,a buck wild joint.
This was the banger on thealbum that I think got
everybody's attention.
Stop chill this is beans kindof like in.

(02:46:28):
This is a record where it'slike, if you like street rap but
you like to nod your head andyou need it to be like not just
super lyrical but you still needto feel the ethos of it, stop
and Chill is Beans' level.
To me this is the record that Ifeel like I wish he would have
made more records like itbecause I think this is his lane
and this is a lane thatactually Jadakiss and Styles

(02:46:50):
ended up filling, which I thinkis funny because of the beef.
But stop and chill was myfavorite record to actually like
playing right around to off thetruth.
That an actual record, thetruth.
And I could have gone throughmore beans records, but those
were my four.

Speaker 2 (02:47:05):
No no, all right.
So I went with on new year'stheme as well, and I wanted to
start with Nas, new world, ohboss.

Speaker 3 (02:47:18):
Nah, this song is dope.

Speaker 2 (02:47:23):
This song is dope.

Speaker 3 (02:47:24):
This song is not good .

Speaker 2 (02:47:26):
It is a good song.
You got to stop hating on thisalbum.
Everything he was saying onthis song in hindsight makes
sense.
I love that song.
You guys give out more Inhindsight.
Everything he was saying onthis song in hindsight makes
sense.

Speaker 1 (02:47:39):
Love that song.
You guys give out more hallpasses on Nostradamus than the
freaking home economics teacherin 11th grade.
This is the worst.

Speaker 2 (02:47:47):
It'll cost a lot one day.

Speaker 1 (02:47:49):
I'm not no.

Speaker 2 (02:47:51):
My second one was Perfect World from Myth.
This is one of the first songsI actually kept playing.
I was in boot camp when thisalbum came out.
In Perfect World, meth wentcrazy.
He was going crazy and Iactually remember hearing this
song at an actual party, a NewYear's Eve party and the DJ kept

(02:48:12):
playing it over and over, keptplaying it over and over, and
this was like the kickoff toTakao 2000.
Love, perfect World.
I like Perfect World.
Perfect World's a dope record.
It gave me hope for the album.
To be honest, I thought thealbum was going to be like
you're doing this.

Speaker 1 (02:48:31):
Torture is what gave me hope for the album.

Speaker 2 (02:48:34):
Torture was dope yeah , spazzola for me Spazzola Party
.
Crasher, party, crasher Party,crasher was crazy too.

Speaker 3 (02:48:42):
Suspect.
He got some joint suspects here.
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (02:48:47):
No, it's just too long.
There are bangers on there.
If he would have made JudgmentDay as short as Takao, he'd have
a banger on his hands.

Speaker 2 (02:48:53):
He was a skit scoop.
He had many skits Skits beenall through his life.

Speaker 3 (02:48:57):
It's a lot like this Muddy Waters too, if we're being
honest.

Speaker 2 (02:48:59):
Just like it Actually .

Speaker 1 (02:49:02):
Think about it.
Spazzola, suspect Chim MusicPlay for Keeps.
Like you know, he had PartyCrasher.
He had about eight or nine orten bangers on there.
Drop the ten bangers, give usthree skits.

Speaker 3 (02:49:16):
The Angelo joint was a dope single too.

Speaker 1 (02:49:18):
Yeah, Break Up the Makeup.
I like that record Shout out toStreet Life.

Speaker 3 (02:49:23):
Street Life did his thing on that album all through
the seven joints.

Speaker 1 (02:49:27):
Street Life did his whole thing through that whole
little era where he was runningwith Matt Paffey.
Actually he didn't get enoughcredit he was.

Speaker 2 (02:49:37):
This one is 50 Cent.
Happy New Year.
Not sure if you guys heard thisone before.
Try not to listen to it.

Speaker 1 (02:49:43):
No, this is a dope record.

Speaker 2 (02:49:45):
Unfortunately it's not on Apple and we are going to
put our playlist on Apple andwe're going to post it for you
guys.
I did ask AG to do an alternate.
I'm going to make anotheralternate, ag, if you don't mind
, because 50 Cent Happy New Yearwould not be on the Apple
playlist or even the Spotifyplaylist.
So we're going to replace itwith Jay, because one of the

(02:50:07):
joints I love with Jay actuallyhe did it with the Kid Capri and
it's like that Love that joint.
I thought Jay went crazy on it.
Like that I'm going to hop,skip and jump, rip and pump.

Speaker 1 (02:50:20):
We're just happy that it's 2025 and you're giving
Jay-Z some sort of credit.

Speaker 2 (02:50:26):
Always give Jay props .
That's the problem.
Y'all don't pay attention whenI give him props.

Speaker 1 (02:50:31):
You don't pay attention to how you be talking.
I need you to come back andwatch this show.

Speaker 2 (02:50:35):
It's a top five MC, top five MC, but still Queens
get the money.
But Jay went crazy on.
It's like that.

Speaker 1 (02:50:43):
You were from Corona, Queens.
That is close to Brooklyn.
I've been looking at my map.
Not close enough, he said.
I've been looking at my map.

Speaker 2 (02:50:52):
Geography.
I told you I was a nerd.

Speaker 1 (02:50:58):
I looked, I was like Corona, I'm like, hold on.
I'm like hold on, nigga.
I'm like, oh, this nigga canget on the train and he's right
there.

Speaker 2 (02:51:04):
He was circling it on the map.
I respect Jay, but y'all know Igotta protect home.
I gotta protect home man.
I respect Jay though you gottaprotect home.
Shout out to Nir bin Al-Udaira.

Speaker 3 (02:51:23):
Wow, it's time to go.

Speaker 1 (02:51:24):
No, it's time to go.
Don't give him another shot.

Speaker 2 (02:51:32):
My last song actually is funny because I heard a
snippet of this song becauseSwizz was actually playing it on
New Year's night on Instagramand it was Nino man featuring
Jada, and I was listening tothis song, man, and I just zoned
out listening to this, so Idon't know if you guys heard it
yet.
So if you get a chance, please,listen to this.

Speaker 3 (02:51:49):
I haven't heard it, but I think you will love it.
That's happening anytime.
Jada, on a feature, I'm with it.
Right, right, right right,right.

Speaker 1 (02:51:57):
No, I didn't catch that one.
I'm going to check in when weget done.

Speaker 2 (02:52:00):
It's a dope joint.
It's a dope joint and again,it's one of those joints where I
like to try to do when I pressplay, I like to try to drop a
gem or what have you, and I'mglad I stumbled on this one.
I hope Nino man can actuallyget something going, having Jada
on his album.

(02:52:20):
I think he was torn with Jadaas well over the past year or so
and I hope you can get somesome momentum behind him.
But this is a dope record righthere.
Dope message it's the kind ofenergy that I think I'm going to
be on in 2025.
And it was.
It was dope man.
So shout out to Nino man.
But that's my press play.

Speaker 1 (02:52:42):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:52:45):
All right, don't miss Idle Gray.
Tell Coop man.
He said Corona is a world away.
It's a world away, man.
Corona is a whole differentplace.
Man Yo Nino Idle man.

Speaker 1 (02:52:56):
Yo Nino Idle Grace Looks like a 30-minute train
ride to me nigga, but okay.

Speaker 2 (02:53:02):
So far away.
Man Looks like 30 minutes,Looks like 30 minutes.

Speaker 1 (02:53:08):
It look like 30 minutes.
I know how to read a map?
Not at all.

Speaker 2 (02:53:13):
Idle Grace said that, nino managed from his hood.
Salute, salute.

Speaker 1 (02:53:20):
So fellas, fellas, any parting shots.
First show of the year, greatshow.

Speaker 3 (02:53:24):
No doubt Real quick.
Check out my man, sales McFly,new beat tape.
He going for the three peak.
Sales McFly on Twitter.
You don't say on Twitter yeah,yeah, hero in Business, part 3.
Check it out on Audio Mac.
He got some heat.
If you're an aspiring rapper,check out the homie Shout out to

(02:53:44):
.

Speaker 1 (02:53:45):
Selza and Fly Selza.
I'm going to catch a wreck onone of your beats this year.
That's my word.
He's got heat man For real.

Speaker 3 (02:53:54):
This is the third installment.

Speaker 1 (02:53:55):
I'm going to snatch one of these beats and catch one
, because I actually have beenwriting some bars, again low-key
.
I don't even know where they'vebeen coming from, they've just
been coming to me when it comes.

Speaker 3 (02:54:02):
They're.
Sean Disses it's okay.
No, no, no.

Speaker 1 (02:54:08):
I am planning for those.
This is the art of war.
I'm talking about what comes tome naturally as an artist.
I'm not talking about.
I'm not talking.
I'm not shh.
Ag our plot to take Sean down.
Keep that shh don't.

Speaker 2 (02:54:18):
Oh, that's crazy man.
Keep that, keep that, that's.
Oh, that is wow.

Speaker 3 (02:54:24):
Yo, that's the one Sean has to fly, and do his
little, that's but yeah, butthat's it.
Though.
You know, check out the homiesales mcfly if you haven't
tapped into his beats yet youknow, I'm saying he got, he got
some heat.

Speaker 1 (02:54:40):
I'm gonna check out sales.
I vow to be on twitter anddiscord dialogues this year but,
all jokes aside, last year wasa rough year.
I mean, you guys know it.
I suffered a lot of family andfamilial and friend loss it was
a really, really rough year.
I'm looking forward to jumpingback in the fray.
I will be on Twitter andDiscord Dialogues this year.
That's bad for all yousucker-ass podcasters out there,

(02:55:02):
beware.
Alright, put it in the air.

Speaker 2 (02:55:10):
We got a super chat on 88 Spins.

Speaker 1 (02:55:13):
Shout out to 88 Spins 88,.

Speaker 2 (02:55:16):
We need your.
We need your playlist 88 when Ipost it.
You need your playlist outthere too.

Speaker 1 (02:55:21):
I hope your list is better than Jack's.
Whack ass list 88 Spence.
Alright, go look at Jack's listwe talking about the press play
.
Okay, no, no, I just want tostep on Jack's list every chance
I get we gonna put the Spotifyand the Apple links up.

Speaker 3 (02:55:38):
You know what I'm saying here shortly.

Speaker 2 (02:55:41):
Life goals.

Speaker 1 (02:55:41):
Can we get some station heads cracking this year
?
I believe I have some unsubwill be.
You guys have had Hold on.
What's that shit?
Y'all talking about the cowversus the pillage, was that
y'all?

Speaker 3 (02:55:52):
Yeah, yeah, put that on the docket.
And then I was going to beatyou with I Am vs Volume 3 and
then call it low.
And then I'm doing Kiss theGame, goodbye vs the Thug
Motivation, whatever you want todo all three of those.

Speaker 1 (02:56:06):
I want to do all three of those that's wild Kiss
the.
Game Goodbye vs 101.

Speaker 2 (02:56:12):
I'm going to call it right now.
I want to call out Idiot Spence.
Philly vs New Spence, phillyversus New York.
What up Philly don't want to dothat.
What up, what up.

Speaker 1 (02:56:21):
Spence.
The Black Thought and the RootsRecords is not going to get it.
They ain't going to get it.
Spence, not enough against allof New York Not enough Spence.

Speaker 2 (02:56:31):
I would go Queens.

Speaker 1 (02:56:31):
You mean like really Philly versus New York, like.

Speaker 2 (02:56:34):
You mean, like really Philly versus New York, like
we're not going to pick aborough?
You know what Spence I'll giveyou all of Philly.
I'll just take Queens.
I'll just take Queens, I'lltake Queens they got.

Speaker 3 (02:56:45):
Black Thought Eve they got.
Allstate Prop they got.

Speaker 2 (02:56:54):
If you want to use Eve, I guess.

Speaker 1 (02:56:56):
Whoa, don't do that, don't do that, don't do that
right now.

Speaker 3 (02:57:00):
So this has been Hip Hop.

Speaker 1 (02:57:01):
Talks that's my first talk.

Speaker 2 (02:57:06):
That's my first talk.

Speaker 3 (02:57:08):
If you got to go in the bag and get Gilly, then yeah
, you lost, if you go in the bagand get Gilly.
That's my first talk.

Speaker 2 (02:57:16):
We got to go man, thank You're going to die.
That's my hurt talking.
We got to go, man, thank youall for coming out.
We got to go.

Speaker 1 (02:57:22):
Subscribe to the page .
Happy New Year, everybody.

Speaker 2 (02:57:25):
It's been fun.

Speaker 1 (02:57:26):
It's been real.

Speaker 2 (02:57:27):
We appreciate y'all.
Thank you for the super chat.

Speaker 1 (02:57:29):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:57:30):
That's love.
Subscribe, like, share,subscribe, get the word out,
tell a friend to tell a friend.
Let the other folks know we arenot responding to the noise
2025, we're focusing on hip-hoptalks and the movement.
We got a lot of stuff going on.

Speaker 1 (02:57:48):
I really don't even know what's going on and I'm
glad.

Speaker 2 (02:57:50):
But if Sean makes you feel, uncomfortable just blink
twice and I promise, put the batsignal in the air.

Speaker 1 (02:58:01):
So you got to blink twice and put the bat signal in
the air.
There'll be some dusty ass richwhite man to come save you,
because my black ass ain'tcoming.
Happy New Year.

Speaker 2 (02:58:11):
Yes, shout out to yo prayers for New Orleans.
Prayers for New Orleans.

Speaker 1 (02:58:15):
Yes, I don't know Prayers for New Orleans.
I don't know Prayers for NewOrleans, seriously.

Speaker 2 (02:58:17):
Prayers for Queens.
There was a shooting in Queenslast night as well.
Prayers for Houston.
There was a bomb actually onI-85 where I'm at, going towards
from Charlotte to Atlanta inthat corridor.
A lot going on in 2025.
A lot going on in 2025.
It's been two days.
How did we do all?

Speaker 1 (02:58:36):
of this in two days.

Speaker 2 (02:58:38):
Not a good way to start.
Two days already.
Clf we are doing Collapse.
We got all of those things onthe dock.
There's a lot going on for HipHop Talks.
Coop got a show coming outreally soon on rap.
You're going to get Coopunhinged unprotected.
All of that.
It's going to be raw uncut.

(02:58:58):
Unprotected is wild.

Speaker 1 (02:59:00):
On that note, y'all don't make me leave the live
early again.
Cut the tape with that wildshit.
On that note, remember staypositive, test negative.
This has been Hip Hop Talks,Good night.

Speaker 2 (02:59:15):
Good night.
Your spits going to smoke yourboots in that battle, oh my.

Speaker 1 (02:59:20):
God.

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