April 17, 2025 • 36 mins
In 1936, Jesus Pallares, a union leader, along with 100 Mexican American mineworkers were deported as “undesirable aliens” after a strike in Gallup, New Mexico. Martial law was declared to break the strike. Hundreds of miners and their families were evicted from their homes, two miners were killed by sheriffs, many, like Jesus, were arrested and deported.
Carmen tells Cristina about this point in history and compares it to more recent precedented times. If you have topic suggestions, feel free to email Historiasunknownpodcast@gmail.com or use the contact us form on the website https://www.historiasunknown.com/contact/
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Music Credit: Hustlin (Instrumental) by Neffex
Sources
Working Class History Everyday Acts of Resistance & Rebellion
https://revolutionsnewsstand.com/2025/03/30/gallup-new-mexico-uncle-sam-mops-up-by-a-l-wirin-from-pacific-weekly-carmel-vol-2-no-26-june-28-1935/
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/6/29/1397574/-Organizing-in-the-Mines
https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-8/lrs-chicano/part-2.htm
https://workersvoiceus.org/justin-akers-chacon-and-mike-davis-no-one-is-illegal-excerpt-2017-2/
https://apnews.com/article/immigration-raid-bellingham-washington-roofing-company-73dfd3d3ca1af12503108616f3726e12
Three Ways to Support Detained Farmworker Organizer Alfredo Lelo Juarez
Bukele Segment Sources:
https://apnews.com/article/kilmar-abrego-garcia-el-salvador-trump-deported-e537cfb69a9840046b5d3e512509e9a8
https://apnews.com/article/who-is-abrego-garcia-e1b2af6528f915a1f0ec60f9a1c73cdd
https://cristosal.org/EN/2023/08/17/report-one-year-under-the-state-of-exception/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/historias-unknown--6253658/support.
Carmen tells Cristina about this point in history and compares it to more recent precedented times. If you have topic suggestions, feel free to email Historiasunknownpodcast@gmail.com or use the contact us form on the website https://www.historiasunknown.com/contact/
Want ad free episodes? And the ocassioal bonus episode? Support Historias Unknown on Patreon https://www.patreon.com/HistoriasUnknownPodcast
Follow on social media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/historiasunknown/
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@historiasunknown
Music Credit: Hustlin (Instrumental) by Neffex
Sources
Working Class History Everyday Acts of Resistance & Rebellion
https://revolutionsnewsstand.com/2025/03/30/gallup-new-mexico-uncle-sam-mops-up-by-a-l-wirin-from-pacific-weekly-carmel-vol-2-no-26-june-28-1935/
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/6/29/1397574/-Organizing-in-the-Mines
https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-8/lrs-chicano/part-2.htm
https://workersvoiceus.org/justin-akers-chacon-and-mike-davis-no-one-is-illegal-excerpt-2017-2/
https://apnews.com/article/immigration-raid-bellingham-washington-roofing-company-73dfd3d3ca1af12503108616f3726e12
Three Ways to Support Detained Farmworker Organizer Alfredo Lelo Juarez
Bukele Segment Sources:
https://apnews.com/article/kilmar-abrego-garcia-el-salvador-trump-deported-e537cfb69a9840046b5d3e512509e9a8
https://apnews.com/article/who-is-abrego-garcia-e1b2af6528f915a1f0ec60f9a1c73cdd
https://cristosal.org/EN/2023/08/17/report-one-year-under-the-state-of-exception/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/historias-unknown--6253658/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hi everyone.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
This is Carmen and Christina. This is The Unknown, a
podcaster where we talk about Latin American history. Sometimes it's
horrible and deals with table topics like cracism, corruption, and genocide.
But more than that, it's also about power, resistance and community.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
What is it today?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Today we're talking about someone named Kishuspaiatis and the union
he started and something bad that happened to him.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Okay, yeah, I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
So before we get into the topic, I just want
to note that we have talked about this time period
in other episodes. Oh, I was gonna list which ones
bah forgot to but as I'm talking about it, I
think that you'll be able to say which ones.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah, So I just want to remind everyone of the
political and social environment of this time. So we're talking
about the nineteen thirties where here in the United States,
oh things, Okay, sorry, I thought that was clear, but
I guess I couldn't been anywhere. You're right, my bad,
It could be anywhere in Latin America with that, and
I know, I know. So we're talking about a time
(01:20):
period of Genus beliefs when Mexicans and others were viewed
as biologically inferior, and because of these beliefs, Mexicans were
forcibly sterilized, segregated, criminalized, and imported. Yeah, several of our
episodes are in this time period, just to name some
really quick. Episode eighty one is around a little bit
(01:43):
after this, but you know, the racism from that is
still going on in Spanish. Episode eighty eight is about
the sterilizations during this time period. But when was the
English one? The History of eugenics and sterilizations in California
episode fifteen, that's the part during this time period where
we're talking about all that. So yeah, but also the
(02:03):
Placita Rain, Yes, that was that. We I think we
did it. We called it a short brief of Placita,
but that's also this time period. Yeah, you mean a
brief history, you said, like a short brief of yes.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Even those arguing against mass deportations were extremely racist and offensive.
A doctor who was testifying on behalf of agricultural businesses
and a hearing about whether Mexicans should be deported or not.
A doctor said the following quote, the Mexican is a quiet,
inoffensive necessity and that he performs the big majority of
(02:43):
our rough work, agriculture, building, and street labor. They have
no effect on the American standard of living because they
are not much more than a group of fairly intelligent
Collie dogs. Wow, fucking rude. And to me, this is
not any different than Kelly Osborne asking who will clean
the toilets? Yeah, or Jasmine Crockett more recently, Yes, we
(03:09):
need them. Well, they can't be deported because we're done
picking cotton to that.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I was like, miss Crockett, Oh my god, miss Crockett,
please why.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
So? Yeah, I mean these are similar statements. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
As we've talked about before, this anti Mexican attitude only
strengthened during the Great Depression as Mexicans were blamed for
the economic state, which again is happening now.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Oh sorry.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
And then in this Booky tells the border patrol murder
that we talked about, Yeah, and then operation went back
in this podcast. Are all taking place during this time period.
It was it was a period of strong anti Mexican,
anti immigrant, and really it's anti Latino. But remember, to
these people, the all Latinos are Mexicans. So we're not
(04:03):
saying all Latinos are Mexican, but that's what they're saying,
and yeah, are saying that it's only now that they
differentiate between Mexican Southdorians and barely now Venezuelans as well. Yes, yeah, sadly,
So I don't know, like I thought, this was a
timely topic for these times that are very precedented, because
(04:29):
we never left these times. We've always been in these times.
People keep saying unprecedented times and I'm like, are you sure?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
But you are because when we met.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, so, I couldn't find much info about Jesus Paiatis.
But Hazus arrived to the United States from Mexico in
nineteen oh eight. He worked for the Gallop American Coal Company,
the Albuquerque and Serrios or Cerilos I don't know coal
company for twenty seven years. But his time as a
co was not easy since he constantly spoke out against
(05:03):
the companies for workers' rights, and he was fired I
think twice, and then he was blacklisted once. And during
this time, a lot more is at stake for speaking
out against companies, right because we're talking about company the
times of company towns, so getting fired men, losing your
housing as well, like things that happened during this time period,
during this era is why there's some worker rights now
(05:26):
right right, and this is the yeah, this is them
like fighting for those rights right now, right back then.
And I can't believe that we didn't really even learn
about labor history in school, right when the majority of
us are going to be forced to go into the
labor force right after graduating from school. So how is
(05:49):
it that we don't learn about labor rights? And I
don't know if things are different now, but like, how
did the forty hour work week come to be? I
think the main thing we get is when child labor ended.
They also talking about Ford and his fucking making Ford
the what is it called the assembly line? Which actually, yes,
(06:10):
that took up like a day in US history in
high school. Please, Like, I don't want to learn about that.
I want to learn about to give a fuck, people
that organized and fought for their rights. Yeah, and like
people died, like I didn't realize until, like you know,
recently from our own learning, people died for our workers' rights. Yeah, Like,
(06:34):
and it's worldwide, it's everywhere, not just here, Like labor
history is bloody as fuck and important, massacres and important. Yeah, yeah,
it's like get people died for our Measley rights now.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Jus helped found the Liga Oberea and began unionized workers
in northern New Mexico and southern color Out. The union
went out to grow to eight thousand members. Wow. And
before founding the Liga, Hesus led Mexican workers to the
capital of New Mexico to oppose New Mexico's then proposed
(07:12):
sedition law, and both liberals and conservatives credited the protests
led by Hissous as the reason that the law didn't pass.
What was this law, girl, I didn't look into that.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Oh wow, what's it called?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
It just said it was a sedition law this time. Okay,
because look, one of my main sources is this old
timey article that first of all was hard to read
because of how people talked back then, right, And they
mentioned this edition law. But there was so many seditions
law sedition laws back then, back then, that I didn't
(07:45):
look into it.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I wonder if there's like a general definition though for
it a crime against the state. Sedition laws are usually
anti free speech. Okay, so that covers thank you. I
just needed some Sorry, I thought you knew that. Yeah, No, please.
Like I've said so many times, I only have a
high school education. Well and like two years of college
(08:12):
five separate times different years combination, though as a bachelor's combination,
I would have had a bachelor's at least.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So anyway, I mean, tradition laws are not good. They're
usually under the pretense of they're usually happened around war
time and anyone speaking out against more you know what
I mean, like that kind of lot I understand now, yes,
thank you. Then in nineteen thirty five, the miners went
on strike and Gallop against the Gallop American Coal Company.
And again it was hard to read this old time
(08:46):
yard goal that I was mentioning, but it seems like
one of the issues leading up to the strike included
three hundred miners settling on company owned land, setting up houses,
and later writing when they were forced off the land.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Were they going to live?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
You know, I don't know. I don't know, and that's
what article said. They want to be close to work, right,
whatever happened, I'm on their side, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Same.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
It was after this conflict that his Suits was able
to grow the LIGA to eight thousand members and in
effort to break the strike, martial law was declared, and
in order to have enough law enforcement to break the strike,
the authorities of Gatlip deputized two hundred mine guards and
ranchers who proceeded to round up and gel to mineworkers.
(09:32):
And I also read that these mine guards and ranchers
were like drunk at the time, of course, so they
were like fighting the workers drunk drunk, and the sheriff
and his deputies ended up opening fire on the workers,
leaving sheriff and Mark Carmichael and two miners dead. And
(09:53):
I couldn't find the name of those miners. It's been
lost to history. All of the Google results were four
pages for this. They combed all of them. The Gallop
Independent reported the following bearing shotguns, rifles, the city's single
submachine gun, and pistols. Of all descriptions, these special deputies
(10:14):
combed Chiwawita, Northwest Gallop and Black Diamond Canyon for radical suspects.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Quote. The sheriff said, we're.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Going to arrest everyone identified with the radical movement here
end quote. The assistant DA assigned to the case admitted
to questioning over six hundred people and over one hundred
miners had their houses raided and searched with almost no
search warrants. The end of the quote was the sheriff
saying they were going to arrest everybody involved with the
radical movement. The sheriff is supposedly found communist literature in
(10:46):
the houses they illegally searched, but really they just found
the union membership cards of those in the union.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
But you know, union equals communism, right right right.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
And then in the quote from the new paper the
Gallop Independent or whatever they went more into I did
included because it was written confusing, but so it said
that they all hit. They had almost no search warrants
for the houses they raided, right, They made up some
bullshit warrant and used that warrant for all the houses,
(11:18):
and supposedly they said that someone had some kind of
weapon or something, but of course it wasn't true.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
It was just a lie. So it's just a bullshit warrant.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, And they used the same warrant on all of
the houses that they raid in. Even the workers, wives
and children were kept in county jails for two nights,
and the workers were corralled into the county courthouse, which
was being guarded by the drunk recently deputized sheriffs who
were really just a mob of racists. Yeah, so workers
(11:44):
were beaten and threatened, while others were promised immunity if
they turned against their coworkers. The workers were first questioned
by the sheriffs, who again were drunk. They then by
state officials, and then by immigration authorities. The workers were
being charged for murder and were being threatened with the
(12:06):
electric chair, so many of them agreed to be deported.
They arrested over one hundred miners and they were charging
all of them with the murder of the one sheriiff. Please,
how does that logistically even make sense? The drunk deputized
shriffs probably killed them.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I wouldn't be.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Surprised if that was the fact. Only forty eight hours
after the shooting, the workers were formerly charged with murder.
Within an hour of being charged, they were arraigned by
justice to the peace and were essentially forced to waive
their rights to preliminary hearings by the DA. Then a
district judge took over the proceedings, and the old timy
(12:43):
article that I got the centem from said quote informations
were filed against them, and I don't know what that
means informations were filed against them. Yeah, so they were
already they had already went in front of a they
were arraigned for their charges, which again were bullsh charges,
and then I don't know what that other hearing by
the other judgment, informations were filed against them. I don't
(13:06):
know what that means. Maybe a testimonies or false like evidence.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Oh maybe that maybe.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, I'm thinking there was testimony against them. I don't
know who knows. We're just guessing here. We don't know, Yeah,
we are, And I don't know what that meant. But
within forty eight hours of the shooting, they were charged, sentenced,
and sent shipped off to the state penitentiary, all without
a presence of a lawyer, and after being denied a
postponement to try to obtain a lawyer. And mind you,
(13:35):
like people are supposed to have everything about this is illegal, right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Hassu's hearing was also unjust no one but the judge,
someone named Nick D. Kohler, the official report writer, I
guess of the court reporter J. M. Wilson, international labor
defense attorney. So the attorney for Hasu was allowed but
not he wasn't even allowed to Spanish interpreter. The ACLU
(14:06):
council was allowed to enter after plenty of negotiation, and
the old Timing article that I used as the sources
actually written by this council. Oh, but he was not
allowed to participate in the hearing in any matter. So,
after weeks of being incarcerated, Hissous was informed of his charge.
He was charged with, quote, being a member of an
(14:26):
organization that believes in the overthrow of the government of
the US by force and violence just because he.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Wants rates for workers' rates. Right. And this judge, Nick.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Kohler, who was proceeding over Hazoo's hearing, had already appeared
as a witness against Hazous. That sounds like a conflict
of interests sounds like he shouldn't have been the one
to be the judge if he already was a witness.
The cutes that makes sense, don't I'm no lawyer, but
I don't know. And he had already also recommended a
warrant of arrest for his all before this yearing wow.
(15:03):
On June twenty ninth, nineteen thirty six, Hessus, along with
one hundred other Mexican mineworkers, and Mexican American mineworkers were
deported as undesirable aliens. Again precedented times.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
That brings me to my next point that back then,
just like now, deportation was used as a weapon to
stifle organizing, and this incident of nineteen thirty six was
not even the first time that the US fielded deportation
against Mexican workers. In nineteen seventeen, the Phelps Dodge Company
(15:38):
located in Bisbee, Arizona. It had to be Arizona. They're
never beating the racist allocations. No, no, they're the ones
was on the miniment. I mean they were everywhere, but
I specifically remember also, this is where sheriff what was
the name Joe or Pio or some shit that guy
came from so or was from? I mean anyway, So
(16:01):
this company from Bisbee, Arizona rounded up a thousand, two
hundred striking miners who were primarily Mexican American, forced them
by gunpoint into cattle cars, and shook them to the
middle of the Mexican desert, leaving them stranded.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
The Liga Albretra never recovered from losing Hassus and the
movement lost this momentum immigration historians Francisco E. Balderrama and
Raymond Rodriguez noted the following and so for a book,
And I forgot to write the book down. Ah, I'm
sure if we look up their names, you'll find the book.
I actually want to read it. I heard of it
before decade of betrayal Mexican repatriation in the nineteen thirties.
(16:43):
This was one of my sources. Yeah, okay, I know
the book. I'm familiar. You know their work, then I do.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
So.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
They noted the following quote. Immigration and deportation was done
in order to serve the needs of influence growers and industrialists.
Regulations were loosely enforced when Mexican workers were needed to
harvest crops or increased production in the mines or on
the sembly lines. Conversely, the strict letter of the law
(17:14):
was applied when Mexican labor exceeded the seasonal demand. Then
deportation rates at the work sites, usually before payday, became
common occurrences.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
That's a fucked up.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
The raids were sometimes conducted at the request of unscrupulous employers,
as we have all seen. This practice continues. In two thousand,
the manager of a holiday inn located in Minneapolis, reported
eight of his undocumented employees to ins when they were
in the process of unionizing. Notably, all eight of these
(17:46):
employees were members of the union and negotiating team. More recently,
on April second, twenty twenty five, Ice rated Mount Baker
Roofing's warehouse and Bellingham, Washington, in which thirty seven.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
People were arrested. I said, I in s because ice
is recent. Ice is made up. All of this is
made up.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
We lived in a world before ice, which means we
can live in a world without ice.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yes. Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Also recently Ice detained Lelo jures he is an activist
for workers. Right, he's been an activist of farm workers
for a very long time. In uh. I want to say,
it's like the Tacoma area. Let me see, maybe not,
It'skaga County. Let's see. This was in Bellingham.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Let's see. He was dropping off his girlfriend at work
in the tulip fields when he was surrounded by men
in masks and unmarked like uniforms, like nothing.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And he was like, like, we have seen videos of
them dressed like this when they have arresting people. They
smashed his car window and pulled him out in his
Oh my god, wife, I guess wife. I thought it
was a girlfriend, but watched in horror, like recording the
whole thing. He had an order for deportation, as two
does an eight team, but it was put like you
(19:11):
know when they freeze those when they call it a stay, right, yes,
and then it was like about to be canceled, like
he was about to be fine to be here, like
with a legal status. And either way, if you have
a stay, you shouldn't be deported, right because that's an
order like where they're not acting on that order of deportation. Yes,
(19:36):
And he's got like you know, they keep saying criminals, criminals,
He has no criminal activity. That's the thing that I'm like,
first of all, I'm annoyed that's minimizing how I.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Feel or whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
But yeah, when we ignore like everyone here is entitled,
has rights, you know what I mean, And everyone has
the right to do process. And people that vote for
Trump or over here celebrating because they they they're racist, right,
So they love they love seeing all these arrests and
(20:09):
all these brown people being shoved off to a death cap,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
They love this. They're frothing at the mouth. For this.
They have rapes over it. It's disgusting. They have righty
because they're warning for it.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
I'm sorry, I swear, I swear. These people get off
on this ship. That's why they're putting out these disgusting,
exploitative videos, you know what I mean. Like these people
are deranged, They have no empathy, and they do not
see brown people as human beings, which is why they
(20:44):
don't give a fuck. But what they don't realize is
when due process is being ignored, it's gonna be ignored
for them too.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
You know what I mean. You're giving over, you're betting
over backwards for this.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
You're right, are also being taken away, and you don't
care because at this point in time, it's not against you,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
But watch yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I will put it in the show notes. There is
a number you can call to say hey, free little quatres.
I've sent emails. I've called a couple of times. I
should be calling every day, but you know, me on
phones and doing things, but it's important. I've done it twice.
Sometimes they just like ignore you, and it's like they
just their answream because they have to. But you know,
(21:36):
they clog up the phone lines, annoy them to the
least we can do. Right now, there's like a lot
of raids and blah blah. Right, But I can't remember
people's names. But there was an activist who mainly her
thing was like abortion rights, and she was undocumented and
she was detained by Ice. And I want to say
(21:56):
Obama was president during that time, so and I don't
remember her name. But all this to say, and we're
talking about the nineteen thirties right right, But it's like
you could, you could share this story now and it
wouldn't be.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Out of pocket, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Like all this to say that this has always been
happening because the United States is racist and they only
use immigration or they don't. They only care about cheap labor,
and they use Latinos and other you know, people of
(22:35):
color when it's beneficial to them, and then when it's not,
you know, they kick you to the curb like a
piece of fucking you know, trash. They don't give a fuck,
They never have. This is how they treat us, how
they've always treated us, and it doesn't matter who's president.
And I think that some people don't realize some people
only seem to care when it's Trump.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
But yeah, this that was my point.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, yeah, people, some people only care because it's Trump
and because Trump and his people.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I was gonna say he's dick suckers. That's why I
was like, well, let me rephrase it.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
I see, because they are like outward with this, right,
And I don't think it would have been on this
much of a large scale, but some of this would
have been happening, has always happened.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, it doesn't matter who's president. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, And it's easy when someone like Trump is not
in power to forget about this and forget about people
who are vulnerable. But we shouldn't, right, And this reminds
me of this book I'm reading right now. That was
the end of episode, by the way, Like that was
all right, I know, okay, yeah, it just I didn't
know if you're sure.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
What book? King Leopold's Ghost.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Oh, and it's about King Leopold, who was a Belgium king.
A story of greed, terror and heroism in colonial Africa. Yeah,
he exploited the fuck out of the Congo. And let
me just read the summary in the late nineteenth let
me add this to my TVR. Sorry, one, oh, you should.
(24:15):
In the late nineteenth century, as the European powers were
carving up Africa, King Leopold two of Belgium carried out
a brutal plundering of the territory surrounding the Congo River,
ultimately slashing the area's population by ten million. He still
managed to shrewdly cultivate his reputation as a great humanitarian.
(24:36):
A tell far richer than any novelist could invent. King
Leopold's Ghost is a horrifying account of a mego lemaniac
of monstrous proportions. It is also the deeply moving portrait
of those who defied Leopold, African rebel leaders who fought
against hopeless odds, and a brave handful of missionaries, travelers
and young idealists who went to Africa for work or
(24:59):
at adventure, but unexpectedly found themselves witnesses to holocaust and
participants in the twentieth century's first great human rights movement.
So in it, there's a quote that basically boils down like,
don't let one person be the one villain that you're
fighting against, because everything is a system, you know what
(25:21):
I mean. So, yeah, one of the main people I
guess that were fighting against King Leopold. I don't remember
his first name because you know, over here it just
written in last names. But anyway, his last name was Moral,
and he did a lot of work like bringing attention
(25:42):
to the situation in the Congo during his time. And
then when King Leopold died, the author of this book
said Moral had suffered the worst stepback that can happen
to a crusader. He had lost his villain. It is
always tempting to believe that a bad system is the
fault of one bad man, and so Moral was afraid
(26:05):
that once King Leopold died, everyone that was involved with
theirs his organization would lose interest, Like, oh, well he's
gone now, so what's the harm. But yeah, this is
exactly what happened last time Biden won and Trump lost.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, people people forgot.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
People got I don't know what's the word complacent, Yes,
thank you. And now now they're like, oh my god.
But it's like, okay, we were always leading up to
this moment. The United States has always become more and
more fascist, you know what I mean, And the people
(26:47):
in power, the politicians, are always the people's enemy.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah, I'm not advocating for an overthrow or anything. Don't
come for me.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah, that's not saying yeah, no, no, but just we're saying, like,
don't have birthday parties, do not idolize these people. And
that includes Bernie Sanders, that includes AOC, that includes Jasmine Crockett.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, all of them, especially includes you know, Trump and them. Yeah.
And before you say, okay, then what's the answer. I
don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I'm just saying I'm just talking okay, okay. But this
also reminds me of I don't remember what episode of
Bitter Brown Fems I was listening to, but they were
talking about the recent protests, which whatever, I'm for it,
you know, people should be exercising.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Their rights and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, but they were talking about or criticizing some of
the signs from the protests, and like some of them
are like if Trump wasn't, if I'd be An Harris
was elected, I'd be at brunch. And it's like, yes,
we know that.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, we know the need to tell us, we.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Know, so YEAHOI being Trump is and this is another Sorry,
I just.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Keep thinking things.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I was listening to to. I remember what I was
listening to. I listened to a lot of stuff, but
they were saying that that Trump is a symptom of
the system. He's not the one cause of things. He's
not the cause. He is a symptom of the system. Yeah,
and yeah it is.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So it's like all these thoughts are just you know,
yeah related, speaking of thoughts. Let's go into episode right
or for the patron members. But first, Wow, we've been
blowing up on Instagram. I'm not sure what to make
of it.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, honestly, I wanted to stop.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
But I hope that it leads people to the podcast
because a lot of the comments are like, oh what
about this?
Speaker 2 (28:44):
What about that? And a lot of it is stuff
we have.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Talked about in the podcast and stuff that is not
topics that you can't really cover in a short you know,
Instagram reel or TikTok video. Yeah, so I guess I
just hope, yeah, people it leads to people learning more,
even if they don't come to the podcast, like looking
up books, like looking stuff, because you look up one thing,
(29:10):
next thing you know, you're in this rabbit hole and
you're like, why didn't I know this before?
Speaker 2 (29:15):
And then suddenly you also want the end of the knobkin.
I'm kidding.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
We're not saying I didn't you didn't say anything. I
didn't say anything.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
But it's like today's.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Topic, right, we've talked about his spighattis and his ligau
and he hey was fighting for the rights of his
fellow mineworkers and it led to his deportation. Right, And
it has so many connections to other things. And the
same can be said about liloquas RW today. So it's
like we're in nineteen thirty six today. What has shaped him? Yeah, yes, yes,
(29:51):
so yeah. If you have found us through Instagram, welcome.
Also TikTok. Sometimes I sometimes I remember to say hey, also,
this is a podcast when I talk about history things,
not all the time sometimes, so yeah, welcome. If there's
any topics people want us to talk about, you can
email us.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
We do have an email. It's on the show notes.
You can ancel dm us. And then the one more.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Thing I was going to say and I completely forgot, Oh,
oh my god, I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
But a quick bulshit segment.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Oh okay, So today, at the time of recording April fourteenth,
twenty twenty five, it has come out that well, nice
from the meeting of Boukele and Trump today, we are
learning that the well, first, he wasn't the only innocently
deportees sent to Salvador, but one of the many, right,
(30:46):
the one person A lot of people are talking about
gil mad gil mar are Goo Garcia.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
He is a was he from a Salvadon I guess
I think so. I think he was.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yes, he was Salvadoran. He came here. He's been in
the US for fourteen years. He's twenty nine. He has
worked in construction. He's raising three children, all with disabilities.
He was accused by local police to be part of
the MS thirteen gang. He has denied the allegation. He
was never charged with the crime. There was never any
(31:22):
evidence he was part of MS thirteen, And even if
he had been at one point in his youth, he
was years away from that. But he wasn't like there
was never any evidence of this. And I say that
because in the press conference that they gave from Trump
and Bucales meeting today, someone asked them about kill Mab
(31:47):
and they immediately all said a bunch of lies after
the other about how he's a known criminal, known gang member,
he's not he's been a he's a criminal, that's why
he was deported.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Again.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
No, no, he has not ever been charged with the crime.
It even has said that the accusation of him being
an MS thirteen was an administrative error. Imagine an administrative
error coming at you like this, ruining your fucking life, Yeah,
destroying everything like his family, like, yeah, he was working
(32:21):
here legally because again Salvatorians have tps right, so, but
so they are, each one of them all said this
lie about him.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
And then at the end of this meeting, Bucala was
asked again, we don't let terrorists go in this country.
Shut the fuck up? Okay, gone gone, thank you? Yeah
he was.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
His answer was basically like, why would I let him go?
First of all, we're not facilitating his return to the US,
We're not returning him. I'm not letting him go in
our own country because I've worked so hard to arrest
all terrorists in my country. Why would I let one go? Again,
as man has not committed any crimes. He is not
a gang member, much less a terrorist. But you know,
(33:06):
they can make they can make They can define anything
they want as a criminal, anything they want as a terrorist,
which like we've been saying, and are many Bucalist segments
in our three episodes of Bugle you don't have you
don't have to be anything they want, they will call
a crime and detain people. And of the these are
(33:28):
estimates from like twenty twenty four, but of the one
hundred plus one hundred thousand plus Salvagorians that have been
detained in these prisons in an Salvador, human rights groups,
different human rights organizations have done reports that only one
third or actual gang members. So the other two thirds
of that number are not They are the centers, they
(33:51):
are activists. Yeah, but no, they keep coming from me
in my comments, fuck you guys, if you are still
kissing Bukele's ass.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
The only I think, I don't know. I guess, I
don't know. Try to call it positive.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
But in the videos that I've seen of the press conference,
there has been some comments are like, oh, I'm so
disappointing in you. I can't believe, And I guess this
is what it takes, colluding with you, which is spid
because even the whole even last time Trump was president,
he was kissing, kissing up with him his ass, yes ass,
(34:29):
So like okay, I don't know this is nothing new,
Thank you, That's exactly what I was saying.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
No, this is new.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
People are finally, I guess, finally waking up. But it's
very not surprising. I guess that it took someone here
to be sent over there. Okay, that's what I was
gonna say, because this is, you know, someone who had
legal status here, but Bug has been doing this and
then since he they don't care. Yeah, they don't care,
(34:57):
but this is this is his pattern of behavior, only
now it's someone from over here. So now you're scared.
Now you care.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, And I'm tired of this. I'm tired of.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
People not caring about other people until it affects them.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I'm honestly say of it. I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what
you tell. I don't know what you can say to
people to make them have some empathy. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Instead, instead of the White House made a video of
Selena when she was crying, like that's crazy behavior, insane.
But now we're we're delving into the episode churgy, right right,
so we want to hear us yap about this kind
of stuff.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, sign up for Patreon.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yes, we also have to announce or play or actually
schedule our book club meeting about Defectors, and that is
free to everyone. If you read the book, you're welcome
to join us. We will have more information on that
as a free post on Patreon, because as a free
member you have access to all the book club related
posts on there. And yeah, other than that, we'll be
(35:59):
back next week with another short episode like this, and
then after that I'll hopefully be done with at least
part one of my history of lynching of Mexicans in
the US. Yeah, alrighty, I guess this brings us to
the end of the episode. Thank you everyone for listening,
and we hope this was one last historia unknown for you.
(36:21):
My
Hi everyone.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
This is Carmen and Christina. This is The Unknown, a
podcaster where we talk about Latin American history. Sometimes it's
horrible and deals with table topics like cracism, corruption, and genocide.
But more than that, it's also about power, resistance and community.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
What is it today?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Today we're talking about someone named Kishuspaiatis and the union
he started and something bad that happened to him.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Okay, yeah, I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
So before we get into the topic, I just want
to note that we have talked about this time period
in other episodes. Oh, I was gonna list which ones
bah forgot to but as I'm talking about it, I
think that you'll be able to say which ones.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah, So I just want to remind everyone of the
political and social environment of this time. So we're talking
about the nineteen thirties where here in the United States,
oh things, Okay, sorry, I thought that was clear, but
I guess I couldn't been anywhere. You're right, my bad,
It could be anywhere in Latin America with that, and
I know, I know. So we're talking about a time
(01:20):
period of Genus beliefs when Mexicans and others were viewed
as biologically inferior, and because of these beliefs, Mexicans were
forcibly sterilized, segregated, criminalized, and imported. Yeah, several of our
episodes are in this time period, just to name some
really quick. Episode eighty one is around a little bit
(01:43):
after this, but you know, the racism from that is
still going on in Spanish. Episode eighty eight is about
the sterilizations during this time period. But when was the
English one? The History of eugenics and sterilizations in California
episode fifteen, that's the part during this time period where
we're talking about all that. So yeah, but also the
(02:03):
Placita Rain, Yes, that was that. We I think we
did it. We called it a short brief of Placita,
but that's also this time period. Yeah, you mean a
brief history, you said, like a short brief of yes.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Even those arguing against mass deportations were extremely racist and offensive.
A doctor who was testifying on behalf of agricultural businesses
and a hearing about whether Mexicans should be deported or not.
A doctor said the following quote, the Mexican is a quiet,
inoffensive necessity and that he performs the big majority of
(02:43):
our rough work, agriculture, building, and street labor. They have
no effect on the American standard of living because they
are not much more than a group of fairly intelligent
Collie dogs. Wow, fucking rude. And to me, this is
not any different than Kelly Osborne asking who will clean
the toilets? Yeah, or Jasmine Crockett more recently, Yes, we
(03:09):
need them. Well, they can't be deported because we're done
picking cotton to that.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I was like, miss Crockett, Oh my god, miss Crockett,
please why.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
So? Yeah, I mean these are similar statements. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
As we've talked about before, this anti Mexican attitude only
strengthened during the Great Depression as Mexicans were blamed for
the economic state, which again is happening now.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Oh sorry.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
And then in this Booky tells the border patrol murder
that we talked about, Yeah, and then operation went back
in this podcast. Are all taking place during this time period.
It was it was a period of strong anti Mexican,
anti immigrant, and really it's anti Latino. But remember, to
these people, the all Latinos are Mexicans. So we're not
(04:03):
saying all Latinos are Mexican, but that's what they're saying,
and yeah, are saying that it's only now that they
differentiate between Mexican Southdorians and barely now Venezuelans as well. Yes, yeah, sadly,
So I don't know, like I thought, this was a
timely topic for these times that are very precedented, because
(04:29):
we never left these times. We've always been in these times.
People keep saying unprecedented times and I'm like, are you sure?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
But you are because when we met.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, so, I couldn't find much info about Jesus Paiatis.
But Hazus arrived to the United States from Mexico in
nineteen oh eight. He worked for the Gallop American Coal Company,
the Albuquerque and Serrios or Cerilos I don't know coal
company for twenty seven years. But his time as a
co was not easy since he constantly spoke out against
(05:03):
the companies for workers' rights, and he was fired I
think twice, and then he was blacklisted once. And during
this time, a lot more is at stake for speaking
out against companies, right because we're talking about company the
times of company towns, so getting fired men, losing your
housing as well, like things that happened during this time period,
during this era is why there's some worker rights now
(05:26):
right right, and this is the yeah, this is them
like fighting for those rights right now, right back then.
And I can't believe that we didn't really even learn
about labor history in school, right when the majority of
us are going to be forced to go into the
labor force right after graduating from school. So how is
(05:49):
it that we don't learn about labor rights? And I
don't know if things are different now, but like, how
did the forty hour work week come to be? I
think the main thing we get is when child labor ended.
They also talking about Ford and his fucking making Ford
the what is it called the assembly line? Which actually, yes,
(06:10):
that took up like a day in US history in
high school. Please, Like, I don't want to learn about that.
I want to learn about to give a fuck, people
that organized and fought for their rights. Yeah, and like
people died, like I didn't realize until, like you know,
recently from our own learning, people died for our workers' rights. Yeah, Like,
(06:34):
and it's worldwide, it's everywhere, not just here, Like labor
history is bloody as fuck and important, massacres and important. Yeah, yeah,
it's like get people died for our Measley rights now.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Jus helped found the Liga Oberea and began unionized workers
in northern New Mexico and southern color Out. The union
went out to grow to eight thousand members. Wow. And
before founding the Liga, Hesus led Mexican workers to the
capital of New Mexico to oppose New Mexico's then proposed
(07:12):
sedition law, and both liberals and conservatives credited the protests
led by Hissous as the reason that the law didn't pass.
What was this law, girl, I didn't look into that.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Oh wow, what's it called?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
It just said it was a sedition law this time. Okay,
because look, one of my main sources is this old
timey article that first of all was hard to read
because of how people talked back then, right, And they
mentioned this edition law. But there was so many seditions
law sedition laws back then, back then, that I didn't
(07:45):
look into it.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I wonder if there's like a general definition though for
it a crime against the state. Sedition laws are usually
anti free speech. Okay, so that covers thank you. I
just needed some Sorry, I thought you knew that. Yeah, No, please.
Like I've said so many times, I only have a
high school education. Well and like two years of college
(08:12):
five separate times different years combination, though as a bachelor's combination,
I would have had a bachelor's at least.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So anyway, I mean, tradition laws are not good. They're
usually under the pretense of they're usually happened around war
time and anyone speaking out against more you know what
I mean, like that kind of lot I understand now, yes,
thank you. Then in nineteen thirty five, the miners went
on strike and Gallop against the Gallop American Coal Company.
And again it was hard to read this old time
(08:46):
yard goal that I was mentioning, but it seems like
one of the issues leading up to the strike included
three hundred miners settling on company owned land, setting up houses,
and later writing when they were forced off the land.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Were they going to live?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
You know, I don't know. I don't know, and that's
what article said. They want to be close to work, right,
whatever happened, I'm on their side, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Same.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
It was after this conflict that his Suits was able
to grow the LIGA to eight thousand members and in
effort to break the strike, martial law was declared, and
in order to have enough law enforcement to break the strike,
the authorities of Gatlip deputized two hundred mine guards and
ranchers who proceeded to round up and gel to mineworkers.
(09:32):
And I also read that these mine guards and ranchers
were like drunk at the time, of course, so they
were like fighting the workers drunk drunk, and the sheriff
and his deputies ended up opening fire on the workers,
leaving sheriff and Mark Carmichael and two miners dead. And
(09:53):
I couldn't find the name of those miners. It's been
lost to history. All of the Google results were four
pages for this. They combed all of them. The Gallop
Independent reported the following bearing shotguns, rifles, the city's single
submachine gun, and pistols. Of all descriptions, these special deputies
(10:14):
combed Chiwawita, Northwest Gallop and Black Diamond Canyon for radical suspects.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Quote. The sheriff said, we're.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Going to arrest everyone identified with the radical movement here
end quote. The assistant DA assigned to the case admitted
to questioning over six hundred people and over one hundred
miners had their houses raided and searched with almost no
search warrants. The end of the quote was the sheriff
saying they were going to arrest everybody involved with the
radical movement. The sheriff is supposedly found communist literature in
(10:46):
the houses they illegally searched, but really they just found
the union membership cards of those in the union.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
But you know, union equals communism, right right right.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
And then in the quote from the new paper the
Gallop Independent or whatever they went more into I did
included because it was written confusing, but so it said
that they all hit. They had almost no search warrants
for the houses they raided, right, They made up some
bullshit warrant and used that warrant for all the houses,
(11:18):
and supposedly they said that someone had some kind of
weapon or something, but of course it wasn't true.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
It was just a lie. So it's just a bullshit warrant.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, And they used the same warrant on all of
the houses that they raid in. Even the workers, wives
and children were kept in county jails for two nights,
and the workers were corralled into the county courthouse, which
was being guarded by the drunk recently deputized sheriffs who
were really just a mob of racists. Yeah, so workers
(11:44):
were beaten and threatened, while others were promised immunity if
they turned against their coworkers. The workers were first questioned
by the sheriffs, who again were drunk. They then by
state officials, and then by immigration authorities. The workers were
being charged for murder and were being threatened with the
(12:06):
electric chair, so many of them agreed to be deported.
They arrested over one hundred miners and they were charging
all of them with the murder of the one sheriiff. Please,
how does that logistically even make sense? The drunk deputized
shriffs probably killed them.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I wouldn't be.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Surprised if that was the fact. Only forty eight hours
after the shooting, the workers were formerly charged with murder.
Within an hour of being charged, they were arraigned by
justice to the peace and were essentially forced to waive
their rights to preliminary hearings by the DA. Then a
district judge took over the proceedings, and the old timy
(12:43):
article that I got the centem from said quote informations
were filed against them, and I don't know what that
means informations were filed against them. Yeah, so they were
already they had already went in front of a they
were arraigned for their charges, which again were bullsh charges,
and then I don't know what that other hearing by
the other judgment, informations were filed against them. I don't
(13:06):
know what that means. Maybe a testimonies or false like evidence.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Oh maybe that maybe.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, I'm thinking there was testimony against them. I don't
know who knows. We're just guessing here. We don't know, Yeah,
we are, And I don't know what that meant. But
within forty eight hours of the shooting, they were charged, sentenced,
and sent shipped off to the state penitentiary, all without
a presence of a lawyer, and after being denied a
postponement to try to obtain a lawyer. And mind you,
(13:35):
like people are supposed to have everything about this is illegal, right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Hassu's hearing was also unjust no one but the judge,
someone named Nick D. Kohler, the official report writer, I
guess of the court reporter J. M. Wilson, international labor
defense attorney. So the attorney for Hasu was allowed but
not he wasn't even allowed to Spanish interpreter. The ACLU
(14:06):
council was allowed to enter after plenty of negotiation, and
the old Timing article that I used as the sources
actually written by this council. Oh, but he was not
allowed to participate in the hearing in any matter. So,
after weeks of being incarcerated, Hissous was informed of his charge.
He was charged with, quote, being a member of an
(14:26):
organization that believes in the overthrow of the government of
the US by force and violence just because he.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Wants rates for workers' rates. Right. And this judge, Nick.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Kohler, who was proceeding over Hazoo's hearing, had already appeared
as a witness against Hazous. That sounds like a conflict
of interests sounds like he shouldn't have been the one
to be the judge if he already was a witness.
The cutes that makes sense, don't I'm no lawyer, but
I don't know. And he had already also recommended a
warrant of arrest for his all before this yearing wow.
(15:03):
On June twenty ninth, nineteen thirty six, Hessus, along with
one hundred other Mexican mineworkers, and Mexican American mineworkers were
deported as undesirable aliens. Again precedented times.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
That brings me to my next point that back then,
just like now, deportation was used as a weapon to
stifle organizing, and this incident of nineteen thirty six was
not even the first time that the US fielded deportation
against Mexican workers. In nineteen seventeen, the Phelps Dodge Company
(15:38):
located in Bisbee, Arizona. It had to be Arizona. They're
never beating the racist allocations. No, no, they're the ones
was on the miniment. I mean they were everywhere, but
I specifically remember also, this is where sheriff what was
the name Joe or Pio or some shit that guy
came from so or was from? I mean anyway, So
(16:01):
this company from Bisbee, Arizona rounded up a thousand, two
hundred striking miners who were primarily Mexican American, forced them
by gunpoint into cattle cars, and shook them to the
middle of the Mexican desert, leaving them stranded.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
The Liga Albretra never recovered from losing Hassus and the
movement lost this momentum immigration historians Francisco E. Balderrama and
Raymond Rodriguez noted the following and so for a book,
And I forgot to write the book down. Ah, I'm
sure if we look up their names, you'll find the book.
I actually want to read it. I heard of it
before decade of betrayal Mexican repatriation in the nineteen thirties.
(16:43):
This was one of my sources. Yeah, okay, I know
the book. I'm familiar. You know their work, then I do.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
So.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
They noted the following quote. Immigration and deportation was done
in order to serve the needs of influence growers and industrialists.
Regulations were loosely enforced when Mexican workers were needed to
harvest crops or increased production in the mines or on
the sembly lines. Conversely, the strict letter of the law
(17:14):
was applied when Mexican labor exceeded the seasonal demand. Then
deportation rates at the work sites, usually before payday, became
common occurrences.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
That's a fucked up.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
The raids were sometimes conducted at the request of unscrupulous employers,
as we have all seen. This practice continues. In two thousand,
the manager of a holiday inn located in Minneapolis, reported
eight of his undocumented employees to ins when they were
in the process of unionizing. Notably, all eight of these
(17:46):
employees were members of the union and negotiating team. More recently,
on April second, twenty twenty five, Ice rated Mount Baker
Roofing's warehouse and Bellingham, Washington, in which thirty seven.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
People were arrested. I said, I in s because ice
is recent. Ice is made up. All of this is
made up.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
We lived in a world before ice, which means we
can live in a world without ice.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yes. Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Also recently Ice detained Lelo jures he is an activist
for workers. Right, he's been an activist of farm workers
for a very long time. In uh. I want to say,
it's like the Tacoma area. Let me see, maybe not,
It'skaga County. Let's see. This was in Bellingham.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Let's see. He was dropping off his girlfriend at work
in the tulip fields when he was surrounded by men
in masks and unmarked like uniforms, like nothing.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And he was like, like, we have seen videos of
them dressed like this when they have arresting people. They
smashed his car window and pulled him out in his
Oh my god, wife, I guess wife. I thought it
was a girlfriend, but watched in horror, like recording the
whole thing. He had an order for deportation, as two
does an eight team, but it was put like you
(19:11):
know when they freeze those when they call it a stay, right, yes,
and then it was like about to be canceled, like
he was about to be fine to be here, like
with a legal status. And either way, if you have
a stay, you shouldn't be deported, right because that's an
order like where they're not acting on that order of deportation. Yes,
(19:36):
And he's got like you know, they keep saying criminals, criminals,
He has no criminal activity. That's the thing that I'm like,
first of all, I'm annoyed that's minimizing how I.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Feel or whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
But yeah, when we ignore like everyone here is entitled,
has rights, you know what I mean, And everyone has
the right to do process. And people that vote for
Trump or over here celebrating because they they they're racist, right,
So they love they love seeing all these arrests and
(20:09):
all these brown people being shoved off to a death cap,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
They love this. They're frothing at the mouth. For this.
They have rapes over it. It's disgusting. They have righty
because they're warning for it.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
I'm sorry, I swear, I swear. These people get off
on this ship. That's why they're putting out these disgusting,
exploitative videos, you know what I mean. Like these people
are deranged, They have no empathy, and they do not
see brown people as human beings, which is why they
(20:44):
don't give a fuck. But what they don't realize is
when due process is being ignored, it's gonna be ignored
for them too.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
You know what I mean. You're giving over, you're betting
over backwards for this.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
You're right, are also being taken away, and you don't
care because at this point in time, it's not against you,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
But watch yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I will put it in the show notes. There is
a number you can call to say hey, free little quatres.
I've sent emails. I've called a couple of times. I
should be calling every day, but you know, me on
phones and doing things, but it's important. I've done it twice.
Sometimes they just like ignore you, and it's like they
just their answream because they have to. But you know,
(21:36):
they clog up the phone lines, annoy them to the
least we can do. Right now, there's like a lot
of raids and blah blah. Right, But I can't remember
people's names. But there was an activist who mainly her
thing was like abortion rights, and she was undocumented and
she was detained by Ice. And I want to say
(21:56):
Obama was president during that time, so and I don't
remember her name. But all this to say, and we're
talking about the nineteen thirties right right, But it's like
you could, you could share this story now and it
wouldn't be.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Out of pocket, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Like all this to say that this has always been
happening because the United States is racist and they only
use immigration or they don't. They only care about cheap labor,
and they use Latinos and other you know, people of
(22:35):
color when it's beneficial to them, and then when it's not,
you know, they kick you to the curb like a
piece of fucking you know, trash. They don't give a fuck,
They never have. This is how they treat us, how
they've always treated us, and it doesn't matter who's president.
And I think that some people don't realize some people
only seem to care when it's Trump.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
But yeah, this that was my point.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, yeah, people, some people only care because it's Trump
and because Trump and his people.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I was gonna say he's dick suckers. That's why I
was like, well, let me rephrase it.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
I see, because they are like outward with this, right,
And I don't think it would have been on this
much of a large scale, but some of this would
have been happening, has always happened.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, it doesn't matter who's president. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, And it's easy when someone like Trump is not
in power to forget about this and forget about people
who are vulnerable. But we shouldn't, right, And this reminds
me of this book I'm reading right now. That was
the end of episode, by the way, Like that was
all right, I know, okay, yeah, it just I didn't
know if you're sure.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
What book? King Leopold's Ghost.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Oh, and it's about King Leopold, who was a Belgium king.
A story of greed, terror and heroism in colonial Africa. Yeah,
he exploited the fuck out of the Congo. And let
me just read the summary in the late nineteenth let
me add this to my TVR. Sorry, one, oh, you should.
(24:15):
In the late nineteenth century, as the European powers were
carving up Africa, King Leopold two of Belgium carried out
a brutal plundering of the territory surrounding the Congo River,
ultimately slashing the area's population by ten million. He still
managed to shrewdly cultivate his reputation as a great humanitarian.
(24:36):
A tell far richer than any novelist could invent. King
Leopold's Ghost is a horrifying account of a mego lemaniac
of monstrous proportions. It is also the deeply moving portrait
of those who defied Leopold, African rebel leaders who fought
against hopeless odds, and a brave handful of missionaries, travelers
and young idealists who went to Africa for work or
(24:59):
at adventure, but unexpectedly found themselves witnesses to holocaust and
participants in the twentieth century's first great human rights movement.
So in it, there's a quote that basically boils down like,
don't let one person be the one villain that you're
fighting against, because everything is a system, you know what
(25:21):
I mean. So, yeah, one of the main people I
guess that were fighting against King Leopold. I don't remember
his first name because you know, over here it just
written in last names. But anyway, his last name was Moral,
and he did a lot of work like bringing attention
(25:42):
to the situation in the Congo during his time. And
then when King Leopold died, the author of this book
said Moral had suffered the worst stepback that can happen
to a crusader. He had lost his villain. It is
always tempting to believe that a bad system is the
fault of one bad man, and so Moral was afraid
(26:05):
that once King Leopold died, everyone that was involved with
theirs his organization would lose interest, Like, oh, well he's
gone now, so what's the harm. But yeah, this is
exactly what happened last time Biden won and Trump lost.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, people people forgot.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
People got I don't know what's the word complacent, Yes,
thank you. And now now they're like, oh my god.
But it's like, okay, we were always leading up to
this moment. The United States has always become more and
more fascist, you know what I mean, And the people
(26:47):
in power, the politicians, are always the people's enemy.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah, I'm not advocating for an overthrow or anything. Don't
come for me.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah, that's not saying yeah, no, no, but just we're saying, like,
don't have birthday parties, do not idolize these people. And
that includes Bernie Sanders, that includes AOC, that includes Jasmine Crockett.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, all of them, especially includes you know, Trump and them. Yeah.
And before you say, okay, then what's the answer. I
don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I'm just saying I'm just talking okay, okay. But this
also reminds me of I don't remember what episode of
Bitter Brown Fems I was listening to, but they were
talking about the recent protests, which whatever, I'm for it,
you know, people should be exercising.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Their rights and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, but they were talking about or criticizing some of
the signs from the protests, and like some of them
are like if Trump wasn't, if I'd be An Harris
was elected, I'd be at brunch. And it's like, yes,
we know that.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, we know the need to tell us, we.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Know, so YEAHOI being Trump is and this is another Sorry,
I just.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Keep thinking things.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I was listening to to. I remember what I was
listening to. I listened to a lot of stuff, but
they were saying that that Trump is a symptom of
the system. He's not the one cause of things. He's
not the cause. He is a symptom of the system. Yeah,
and yeah it is.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So it's like all these thoughts are just you know,
yeah related, speaking of thoughts. Let's go into episode right
or for the patron members. But first, Wow, we've been
blowing up on Instagram. I'm not sure what to make
of it.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, honestly, I wanted to stop.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
But I hope that it leads people to the podcast
because a lot of the comments are like, oh what
about this?
Speaker 2 (28:44):
What about that? And a lot of it is stuff
we have.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Talked about in the podcast and stuff that is not
topics that you can't really cover in a short you know,
Instagram reel or TikTok video. Yeah, so I guess I
just hope, yeah, people it leads to people learning more,
even if they don't come to the podcast, like looking
up books, like looking stuff, because you look up one thing,
(29:10):
next thing you know, you're in this rabbit hole and
you're like, why didn't I know this before?
Speaker 2 (29:15):
And then suddenly you also want the end of the knobkin.
I'm kidding.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
We're not saying I didn't you didn't say anything. I
didn't say anything.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
But it's like today's.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Topic, right, we've talked about his spighattis and his ligau
and he hey was fighting for the rights of his
fellow mineworkers and it led to his deportation. Right, And
it has so many connections to other things. And the
same can be said about liloquas RW today. So it's
like we're in nineteen thirty six today. What has shaped him? Yeah, yes, yes,
(29:51):
so yeah. If you have found us through Instagram, welcome.
Also TikTok. Sometimes I sometimes I remember to say hey, also,
this is a podcast when I talk about history things,
not all the time sometimes, so yeah, welcome. If there's
any topics people want us to talk about, you can
email us.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
We do have an email. It's on the show notes.
You can ancel dm us. And then the one more.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Thing I was going to say and I completely forgot, Oh,
oh my god, I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
But a quick bulshit segment.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Oh okay, So today, at the time of recording April fourteenth,
twenty twenty five, it has come out that well, nice
from the meeting of Boukele and Trump today, we are
learning that the well, first, he wasn't the only innocently
deportees sent to Salvador, but one of the many, right,
(30:46):
the one person A lot of people are talking about
gil mad gil mar are Goo Garcia.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
He is a was he from a Salvadon I guess
I think so. I think he was.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yes, he was Salvadoran. He came here. He's been in
the US for fourteen years. He's twenty nine. He has
worked in construction. He's raising three children, all with disabilities.
He was accused by local police to be part of
the MS thirteen gang. He has denied the allegation. He
was never charged with the crime. There was never any
(31:22):
evidence he was part of MS thirteen, And even if
he had been at one point in his youth, he
was years away from that. But he wasn't like there
was never any evidence of this. And I say that
because in the press conference that they gave from Trump
and Bucales meeting today, someone asked them about kill Mab
(31:47):
and they immediately all said a bunch of lies after
the other about how he's a known criminal, known gang member,
he's not he's been a he's a criminal, that's why
he was deported.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Again.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
No, no, he has not ever been charged with the crime.
It even has said that the accusation of him being
an MS thirteen was an administrative error. Imagine an administrative
error coming at you like this, ruining your fucking life, Yeah,
destroying everything like his family, like, yeah, he was working
(32:21):
here legally because again Salvatorians have tps right, so, but
so they are, each one of them all said this
lie about him.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
And then at the end of this meeting, Bucala was
asked again, we don't let terrorists go in this country.
Shut the fuck up? Okay, gone gone, thank you? Yeah
he was.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
His answer was basically like, why would I let him go?
First of all, we're not facilitating his return to the US,
We're not returning him. I'm not letting him go in
our own country because I've worked so hard to arrest
all terrorists in my country. Why would I let one go? Again,
as man has not committed any crimes. He is not
a gang member, much less a terrorist. But you know,
(33:06):
they can make they can make They can define anything
they want as a criminal, anything they want as a terrorist,
which like we've been saying, and are many Bucalist segments
in our three episodes of Bugle you don't have you
don't have to be anything they want, they will call
a crime and detain people. And of the these are
(33:28):
estimates from like twenty twenty four, but of the one
hundred plus one hundred thousand plus Salvagorians that have been
detained in these prisons in an Salvador, human rights groups,
different human rights organizations have done reports that only one
third or actual gang members. So the other two thirds
of that number are not They are the centers, they
(33:51):
are activists. Yeah, but no, they keep coming from me
in my comments, fuck you guys, if you are still
kissing Bukele's ass.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
The only I think, I don't know. I guess, I
don't know. Try to call it positive.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
But in the videos that I've seen of the press conference,
there has been some comments are like, oh, I'm so
disappointing in you. I can't believe, And I guess this
is what it takes, colluding with you, which is spid
because even the whole even last time Trump was president,
he was kissing, kissing up with him his ass, yes ass,
(34:29):
So like okay, I don't know this is nothing new,
Thank you, That's exactly what I was saying.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
No, this is new.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
People are finally, I guess, finally waking up. But it's
very not surprising. I guess that it took someone here
to be sent over there. Okay, that's what I was
gonna say, because this is, you know, someone who had
legal status here, but Bug has been doing this and
then since he they don't care. Yeah, they don't care,
(34:57):
but this is this is his pattern of behavior, only
now it's someone from over here. So now you're scared.
Now you care.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, And I'm tired of this. I'm tired of.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
People not caring about other people until it affects them.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I'm honestly say of it. I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what
you tell. I don't know what you can say to
people to make them have some empathy. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Instead, instead of the White House made a video of
Selena when she was crying, like that's crazy behavior, insane.
But now we're we're delving into the episode churgy, right right,
so we want to hear us yap about this kind
of stuff.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, sign up for Patreon.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yes, we also have to announce or play or actually
schedule our book club meeting about Defectors, and that is
free to everyone. If you read the book, you're welcome
to join us. We will have more information on that
as a free post on Patreon, because as a free
member you have access to all the book club related
posts on there. And yeah, other than that, we'll be
(35:59):
back next week with another short episode like this, and
then after that I'll hopefully be done with at least
part one of my history of lynching of Mexicans in
the US. Yeah, alrighty, I guess this brings us to
the end of the episode. Thank you everyone for listening,
and we hope this was one last historia unknown for you.
(36:21):
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