The 1989 Jesuit Massacre

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hi everyone. This is Carmen and Christina and this is
Estoria's Unknown, a podcast where we talk about Latin American history.
Sometimes it's horrible and deals with tavy topics like raises,
some corruption, and genocide, but more than that, it's also
by resistance, power and community. And warning, this episode is heavy.
It's depressing. Now, oh now, almost like all of our

(00:36):
fucking episodes. Now, sometimes there's a like nice uplifting message
somewhere in there, there's a little something of hope. This
has nothing of that to me, to me personally, because
like interested, okay, well let's just jump right into this then.
But trigger warning, it is very heavy, okay, Like it's

(00:58):
a massacre. So like I'm gonna cry. I cried so yes,
so at the time of recording, the anniversary of the
nineteen eighty nine murders of six Jesuits and two civilians
in at Saint Vralod just took place. It's November seventeenth
right now, and this happened November sixteenth, nineteen eighty nine,

(01:19):
and this is now looked back as one of the
worst incidents of violence during the Salvadoran Civil War, which
we have talked about before and that's what I'm telling
you about today, this massacre. Okay, Before we talk about
that day and the massacre specifically, I do want a
brief refessional on the Salvadorian Civil War because it's been

(01:41):
a while. I think, Yeah, what it's been like two
years or so since our series on San vaalord mm hm.
So the Salvadoran Civil War lasted twelve years, from nineteen
eighty to nineteen ninety two, and by the end of it,
nearly seventy five thousand Salvadorians had lost their lives. And

(02:01):
we know that a war doesn't just start out of nowhere.
Right before the civil war officially started, there's there was
moments of unrest, there was repression, there was inequality, and
there was already resistance that had been happening for a
long time. The opposing groups during the civil war were
the US backed Soulduran right wing government, slash military and

(02:24):
the robo groups key emphasis on the US fact exactly exactly,
and the rebel groups which joined together to form La
Frente Fbundo Marti or the FMLN, which would then become
a political party after the nineteen ninety two peace accords.
Like I just said, a few seconds ago. A war

(02:46):
doesn't start out of nowhere, and the Frente fundo Marti
that name comes from like an event that directly ties
into the Civil War. So that incident of myvilence is
now known as Lamatanza, where the fmlen got their name from.
And so again we're just gonna go through this brief

(03:08):
briefly as well Lamatanta, because we cover that way back
in episode one. But Lamatansa and that event and the
events that followed Lamatanza directly like informed the Civil War
and the repression that like never left. Yeah, they shaped
and as a country. Oh, thank you. Every time I'm talking,

(03:32):
I just need to stop and let you like say
what I was saying, because you say it so succinctly.
One of the things I harp on my interns all
the time is be more succinct, get to the point,
get summarizes, summarizes. Yeah, yeah, I know, And I am

(03:54):
bad at that anyway, It could be worse. Thank you,
So la Matanza. On January twenty second, nineteen thirty two,
thousands of indigenous people farm workers armed themselves with sticks,
mancetes and poor quality shotguns and rebelled against the Ednandez

(04:16):
Martinez regime. They were led by the Communist Party, which
includes Agostine Farabundo Marti and others. This rebellion, they overtook
aciendas and the military barracks in Ahuachapan, Santa Tekra, and Sonsonate,
and they took control of Huayua, Nawisalco, Isalco and Lacopan.

(04:42):
When they did this, the rebels they killed no more
than one hundred people. The only confirmed deaths included twenty
civilians who all worked at these or who all owned sorry,
who were all part of the upper class you could say, right,
and thirty soldiers that's who was for sure. So fifty people,

(05:06):
for sure were killed by the rebels. It's believed by
historians that two uprisings occurred at the same time, one
by the Communist Party and members of the Communist Party
and one separate rebellion by or uprising by the indigenous
pope workers. And they just happened to happen at the
same time, and they weren't like working together to do this,

(05:29):
but it happened. So in order to suppress this rebellion,
and sorry they were they were rebellion against like terrible,
terrible terrible like enslavement type conditions, working conditions right right, inhumane,
horrible And if you want to learn more about that,
you can go back to our what first episode, episode

(05:51):
one episode of the coffee Yeah, the coffee episode, And
if you want to learn more about it, you have
sources on that. Yes, they're all listed in the show
notes always. So in order to surpress this rebellion, the
Salvadoran military quickly organized and Canadian and United States Navy

(06:11):
ships arrived because the whenever there's like a working class rebellion,
you know that the the how would you say, not
the uphelders, because that's not a word. The rich, the oligarchy,
the arbiters of capitalism, Yes, will be there to shut

(06:32):
that shit down. Yes, and that's because who owned the
coffee plantations, the US, the British, and the Canadian the
west you could say, yes, okay, So yeah, they arrived
and they were waiting there in case they were needed.
But the Salvadoran military took carav It, who was in

(06:54):
the business of supporting the oligarchics, to carab It, Yes, right, right,
and so the Chief of Operations formed the Canadian and
US navies that peace had been achieved and that forty
eight hundred Bolsheviks were wiped out. That's what they used.
But this was yeah, and you also did mention there

(07:16):
was two separate uprisings going on at the same time,
so like one was a communist thing, which I'm the
Bolshevik thing is referring to, and then the other group
was the indigenous people. That's the issue with the imperial powers,
the supposed democracies, whenever they're trying to stop the spread

(07:37):
of communism, the first people they are attacking, they're repressing,
they're violently murdering, or the indigenous people of whatever land
they are currently trying to Like, well, that's what I
was gonna say to like no matter what, well like
relating to that, no matter what, like the working class,
the indigenous, it's all anti capitalists, and so they put

(08:01):
that under you know, they label that as subversive as communists. Yeah,
And just like during this Matanza in nineteen thirty two
when the target of the state was the indigenous Pepe.
During the South Duran Civil War, a lot of the
areas hit the hardest were the rural indigenous areas like

(08:24):
the Morasan Department Yea. These areas these rural areas. So
these were not Bolsheviks, these were indigenous people people and
the exact number is not confirmed, but it is estimated
that seventy two hours after the rebellion, another twenty five
thousand had been killed. Wow, all indigenous. Those that were

(08:50):
not killed in these seventy two hours after the rebellion
were arrested and then sentenced to death. Anyone with a machette,
found to have Indigenous features or indigenous clothing was found guilty,
like this is Jena's side, one hundred percent. Any male

(09:12):
over twelve years old, and again these are these kids,
but this is the words they use. Any male over
twelve years old was a target, like they were considered
part of the rebels because they were. Anyone older than
twelve was automatically like guilty, which again you can look
at and sailor now and say the same thing was

(09:33):
done during the Civil War. Any boy over twelve easily
was targeted, was thought of as either taken by the
military to force them to join, or they were thought
to be subversive and targeted. And also now, any anyone
over twelve that looks like a gang member is subject

(09:56):
to the jails. Savalora right now. So like boys can
just never get catch a break. Yeah, it's very sad
and so, yeah, this was literal genocide, Like under the
definition of genocide, this would have fallen under that. But
we don't learn about these things, right One plantation, this

(10:18):
is like an incident of the violence that followed the rebellion.
One plantation owner told his employees to come to the
plantation so they could receive identification cards that would identify
them as indigenous. And when they arrived to receive these
identification cards, they were all killed, all of them, just
right there on the spot, five hundred on the coffee plantation.

(10:42):
People were forced to dig mass graves, then killed and
thrown in those graves. They had to dig themselves. They
were forced to dig their own graves. Yeah, yes, this yeah,
this was a genocide of the people speaking people in
so many were killed and those that survived had to
abandon their traditions in order to avoid death and persecution.

(11:06):
By the end, at least forty thousand. Additionally, from aside
from that, seventy two hours were killed during this at
that time, and it was in it till twenty ten
that the South During government acknowledged that this happened and
apologized for the genocide. This rebellion directly contributed to the

(11:27):
factors that led to the South during Civil War, because
as we said back then in episode one, all of
this was done to keep the oligarchs happy, to keep
capitalism going, to stop communism. The conditions that led to
the rebellion in nineteen thirty two didn't change the economy.

(11:49):
That inequality, income, inequality, like it only grew. Yeah, yeah,
and so yeah, that's those are the kind of things
that led to the civil war in the nineteen eighty
or some say nineteen seventy nine. But the people were
still being repressed, like those same things that the government
put in place back then, they kept doing it and

(12:10):
they kept adding on more and more things. So yeah,
back to the civil war. Some say it began officially
in nineteen eighty, but again, periods of violence were happening
as early as nineteen seventy seven leading up to the
civil war, not that far into the actual civil war.

(12:32):
So like early nineteen eighties, there were already growing reports
of human rights violations committed by the Salvadoran military. We've
already talked about the archbishop of Nzarabador now canonized Saint
Osca Romero, who in nineteen eighty published a public letter
where he urged Jimmy Carter to stop sending money to

(12:53):
the Salvadoran armed forces because the Salva Duran armed forces
were only repressing their people and defending the interests of
the oligarchy, and that this money was going straight to
the hands of the forces that were violating the rights
of the Solidarian people. Like the letter says all this,
and this was early, early into the civil war, but no,

(13:14):
the money kept being fluttered into it. Yeah, and this
letter was one of the many reasons that Oskarmnos's assassination
was ordered by Major Roberto Dawison, who is the fucking
bitch who sent his son to the illegitimate state Israel. Yes,

(13:36):
Israel safe while he to escape the civil war. Well,
he committed atrocities against the Solidarian people. Yeah so yeah.
He also would eventually be the founder of ARENA, the
Nationalist Republican Alliance, and ARENA and FMLEN today are both

(14:00):
political parties. Uh, and albeit their dying because the New
Ideas Party was no I say as is taking took
over completely. I don't. I wouldn't even say it. Is
taken over. They have taken over. Yeah, yeah, so yeah,
he is the founder of Varenna and the Truth Commission,

(14:20):
for which is the was put together by the UN
to investigate the war basically, and so this commission concluded
that the majority of human rights violations and civilian deaths
were committed by the military slash Arenna. Like, this is

(14:41):
a third party who concluded this, And yet and yet
there are nay sayers, just like there are naysayers about
I think there's plenty of evidence for like the Holocaust,
exactly exactly. So something very common that we have said
so many times, but that you'll hear people Savadoran say

(15:02):
today is that both sides were wrong. Both sides, both
sides did horrible things. And that's just unfactual. It is
a fact. And I forget the percentage. I didn't like
go and search for the percentage, but it is high.
It is high, and you mentioned it in the other
episodes where we covered this. I have said the percentage
in the past. Yes, so yeah, they were mostly committed

(15:25):
by the right wing regime. And this includes the nineteen
eighty nine killings of the Jesuit scholars, priests, their housekeeper,
and her daughter, and so now onto the actual massacre,
now that the context is done. Yes, now the massacre.
On the evening of November fifteenth, nineteen eighty nine, Coronol

(15:47):
Guillermo Alfredo Benavidez Moreno, who led the infamous at La
cart Battalion, met with his officers at the Military College.
We've talked about the Atla at battalion before, sure, but
do you want to remind people about them. That's the
battalion that trained at the School of Americas here in

(16:09):
the United States, and also the battalion that committed the
Oscar at Maste. Yes, this, that is correct. This battalion
was formed in nineteen eighty trained at the School of Americas.
They were this battalion specifically was responsible for some of
the worst, the most violent acts during the Civil War,

(16:30):
and their whole purpose was counterinsurgency. They were directly trained
by the US. Actually, I'm reading a book right now
about counter resurgency and the police are police who worldwide
went to other countries. I didn't know this, oh until
like recently. Okay, sorry, while while you were talking about this,
one of the people who trained these death squads and

(16:55):
the Atla Battalion is the current ambassador in Mexico. Oh,
I think I heard this. Yeah, I forgot his name.
I don't remember either, but if you look up current
ambassador in Mexico, current US Ambassador in Mexico, he was
training these desquads and he has never faced accountability for anything.

(17:18):
So throwing that out there, I don't think he has,
because he's still working. I'm sure right, Like if he had,
he wouldn't be working, right. Most of these people didn't
face accountability at all. No, no, so yes, that is
the Atlakat battalion. And so the officers of the battalion
met at the military college, and that's where the Colonel

(17:40):
Benavideesmoreo informed them that the subversive elements were to be
eliminated and their newest target was Spanish salvadoran Jesuit philosopher
and theologian Ignacio and Yacuria. And of course not to
say that just because someone is like a whole figure
in the church doesn't mean they're like a good person.

(18:04):
But what kind of like, right, what kind of military
what kind of people get to be to just be
killing fucking Jesuits? Yeah, the good kind of Catholics, And
I mean the the Jesuits who were working as at
the time were so passionate, so good. They were actually

(18:26):
good because obviously so much can be said about the
Catholic Church and churches and religion in general, but these
people were doing actual good work. Yeah, and that's why
they were targets. So he yes, he was talking to
his officers and he told them like the Father Ignacio

(18:48):
Yakuria and any witnesses are to be eliminated. And the
following night, the Atla Gade battalion descended upon the Jose
Simeon Kanyas Central American University and made their way to
the residence of the Jesuits in the university. There they
demanded for the Jesuits to open the door, and when

(19:08):
the Jesuits did so, these soldiers forced them to lay
face down in the back garden. Then they searched the
residence and once that was that was done, and they
gathered like all the money to steal. I guess Lieutenant
Guerra gave the soldiers the order to kill the priests.
So Prive Grimaldi shot and killed Father Eyakuria, Ignacio Martin Baro,

(19:32):
and Segundo Montes. Deputy Sergeant Antonio Ramiro Avalos Bargas shot
and killed father Lopez and father Montes. As they swept
the house. Other soldiers found father Joaquin Lopezi Lopez and
killed him. Then Deputy Sergeant Tomas Sarpate Castillo found Julia Elbarramos,

(19:57):
who was the housekeeper, the cook she did it all,
and her sixteen year old daughter Selina mariseth Ramos and
shot them. And as if that wasn't enough, Private Jose
Alberto Sierra Asensio went up to them and shut them
again to confirm their deaths. And when they were done,
the Atla Cate Battalion further framed the operation as a

(20:21):
rebel attack. Yeah, because they had already decided in their
meeting the day prior that they were going to use
AK forty sevens that they had taken from the FMLEN
to carry out these killings. But that wasn't enough. They
also used rockets, grenades, and a machine gun to fire
at the residence from the outside to make it look

(20:41):
like it was this big attack. Okay, this wasn't one
of those cases where they spray painted like supposedly they did,
didn't they, well, Carmen. Then they placed a cardboard sign
that read fmllen executed those who informed on it victory
or death FML. Then I kind of remember that. I'm like, wait,

(21:04):
did they Oh? They most certainly did. And if this
doesn't show you how all struggles are connected, because who
the fuck was doing this? Who's been doing this? The
Atakad battalion had been instructed to leave no witnesses, but
little did they know that at a nearby house inside
the same university, Lucia Sedna, another housekeeper, was woken up

(21:26):
by all the noise she could hear as doors were
kicked in, things were thrown around, and shot after shot
after shot was fired. Oh my god. She went to
look in the window and that's when she saw men
in uniforms descending upon the house. So she knew it
wasn't that femline. Yes, literally my next sentence, she knew

(21:48):
this was the Salvadorian military. Yes, she heard as the
Jesuits were killed, and she remembers hearing vice rector and
rector is like ahead of the university. I didn't know that,
so I had to tell myself and mind I learned
that somewhere. Yeah, we probably did, because you have a degree. Oh,
but we don't call them that really am no, but

(22:09):
you just know things because now I think it's from
researching like our stuff. Oh really, I think because you
have a I didn't that you know every No, I
wasn't from that. I'm pretty sure. Okay, well, yeah, I
don't know that. So that's what a vice rector is,
like the assistant principle of a college university. So that's

(22:31):
when she heard the vice rector, Ignacio Martin Batto screamed,
this is an injustice, and then she heard as they
killed him. Wow, during for her life. She fled and
Salvador with the help of Jesuits and European diplomats, and
she arrived in Miami, where she was supposed to feel safe,
but instead she arrived at the Radisson Hotel in Miami,

(22:54):
where the FBI and a Salvadoran colonel questioned her about
what she saw that night, and she told them what
she saw Salvador in military uniforms, but they did not
believe her. Well, wasn't the FBI like in communication with
and like, I don't know, like friendly in contact with
are we son? Yeah? That we soon? And then also

(23:18):
someone else at the top I don't remember who, welled
the president blah blah, oh yes, whatever, Yeah, the president
knew about everything that was happening. Yeah, and Masota massacre,
the Masota massacre the day or two after it happened,
some big us And when we talked about in the
actual episode, I had his name written down. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(23:40):
Now it's off the top of your head. Now yeah,
now I'm saying this from the top of my head.
And so a day or two after some head either
in the CIA or some person high ranking in the
US military arrived, I saw the bodies like that. I
feel like that sounds like remembering, like bits and pieces.
As we're talking, like the FBI, you had direct knowledge,

(24:02):
had direct knowledge of all of it, and of course
did nothing to prevent any of it because it was
another interests, right. So yeah, the FBI and a Salvadoran
colonel questioned her about what she saw, and they didn't
believe her. They called her a liar, just like they
did with Rufina Maya. They accused her of being a
communist and get a Yerra or get a Yetra sympathize her,

(24:27):
and I'm like, fleeing a violent attack. If that makes
you a communist, so be it. But what kind of
fucking bullshit is that, like people are so crazy leave
their homes. People are forced to leave their homes. I mean,
some people want to leave right, right, right, but a
lot of people were forced. She was forced to flee.
She literally fled for her life. If she was lying,
why would she be fleeing for her life. If they

(24:48):
would have seen her, they would have killed her. That's
why she fled, exactly the most ridiculous shit. Yeah. And
she was harassed, intimidated, and insulted until she changed her
story to state she never versas US banked Salvadoran soldiers
on the night of the attack. To this day, the
FBI denies this, of course they do. Well, she maintains

(25:10):
her truth, and I choose to believe her, of course. Yeah.
And she wrote this in her book, which I have
added to my TBR. But is it no mas espanon?
Oh you know what nose well, it's titled l'averrade A
Witness to the Salvadoran Martyrs. I think it's been translated.
Oh yeah, it came out in twenty fourteen, I want

(25:30):
to say. And in the book she wrote, I always
tell the truth. That's what the priests taught me. In
a twenty nineteen interview, she told NPR that to this
day she wonders if she could have somehow changed the
minds of the soldiers who killed her friends. She said, quote,
if the soldiers have spoken to me first, they wouldn't

(25:52):
have done it. I would have told them not to
and they wouldn't have done it. I missed them always.
This is right, cried I know, I got children now, Yeah,
And it isn't it such a like salve mom thing
to be like, well, they would have listened to me. Yeah, no,
it is, it is, it is. And it's like because
who would think? But who would? Yeah, It's like how

(26:14):
it's unfathomable to think your own people would do this,
and in places like Latin America. Well, I mean any
religious like like your your religious leaders give you give
the community faith and hope. And when they're killed, like
cold murdered just like this, Like what does that say

(26:35):
to the people, you know what I mean, after they've
already been through so much? Like Yeah, when the killings
took place, she had been a housekeeper at the university
for ten years, and she loved working there. She says
that she knew the place like the back of her hand.
She knew every hall, every room, every corner of the
priest's office. She could identify each one of them by

(26:58):
the way they walked into their office without even turning
to look at them. Wow. And she went on to say,
I felt so happy, even when all I did was
sweep and dust. Before the tragedy, I smiled. Everything I did,
I did it with a smile. But after that happened,
I went into a deep depression. I cried at this

(27:18):
part too. I know I have children now. As she
saw that night, and as the UN Truth Commission report concluded,
it was one hundred percent the US backed at Cat
battalion who did this. And even so today you will
see Salvadorans insist that the FMLN were the ones to

(27:40):
commit these atrocities. You will also see them agree that
these were just communists, as if being communists made them
means that they deserve to die like this, right, because
it's like okay, And even as they were so, I
someone left the comment and I don't never even replied
to it. I've been meaning to I had been meaning
to make a video, replied, but then I was like whatever,

(28:01):
But someone in my video about oscarro Meto, someone was
like he was a communist. I saw that he was
not a communist. And even if he was, that's what
I'm saying. If wanting your community and your people to
be fed, to be clothed, to have h fair wages,

(28:23):
to have fair working environments, to have a quality of
life that doesn't involve slaving away, if that makes you
a communist, then okay, right, Like I see nothing wrong
with that. No, And like not to get too off
the rails here, but like people kept questioning the Latino

(28:47):
voting block, the Latino voting block, and how these Latino
men voted for Trump. But this goes back to this
isn't just like a right now issue. This goes back
to everyone's respective countries and the brain raw brain washing
that was done to make people believe that communism is
the worst thing ever and that every communist serves to die.

(29:08):
Like it's the same thing in in Chile, in Argentina,
Like it's I over lat in America because of the
Cold War, because of the United States. Yeah, and I
have to wonder and even before that, because like look
at oh, yeah, we've talked about it obviously. Yeah, it's

(29:31):
just it's just I don't know. Sometimes I like, what
would the world be like if the US just left
everywhere everything alone? If I ask myself that every day anyway,
and people will hear us say that, and then we'll
leave comments like oh, you would be in bread eating
shit and like, uh no, that's what Europeans were doing. Yeah, anyway,

(29:55):
I don't know, I said that. Yeah, like I was saying,
you will still see Sawa Dorians insists that the fmlane
were the ones who did this, the ones who killed
Oscarro Metro, so on and so on, and it's just
simply not the truth. The Jesuits and the Catholics, and
then said Balod were a long time target of the

(30:16):
right wing regime. Yeah. During the war, national radio shows
and TV shows regularly called Catholics and Jesuits communists, and
in the months before the killings, state controlled radio stations
talked NonStop about hatred toward the subversive Jesuits and specifically

(30:36):
father A Yakurya. They did the same thing with Oscadro Metro, Yeah,
they did. If the Salvadoran security forces found anyone with
the Bible, they were immediately suspicious. The Bible was considered
a subversive book. And this is actual Christian persecution. Yeah,
to the white evangelicals who want to make themselves martyrs,

(30:58):
you don't know what it's like to be martyr. No,
you don't want to know what it's like. Ask no,
ask the Jesuits who's survived, Ask Lucy. I said, now,
what it's like to be a martyr. And you know what,
And this is not the only Like you said, there's
same oscatro metal, there's these Jesuits, And isn't it there's
still a separate incident of the nuns. This is not
the same. Yeah, no, this is not the same one.

(31:19):
That's what it's like to be a martyr. And for
what for the United States? Yeah? Yeah, where was that? Yeah,
the Bible was considered a subversive book. The military would
scattered flyers outside of churches and these fires read sorry,
this is fucking horrible, these fires read quote be a
patriot kill a priest end quote, oh my god. And

(31:44):
they were they would leave these scatter these flyers, scatter
these fires in front of churches. Wow, And that's what
they said. And before this massacre on November sixteenth, nineteen
eighty nine, Catholic priests again like I said, they were
a long time target of the right wing regime. As
we know, Saint Oscar Romero was assassinated on March twenty fourth,

(32:05):
nineteen eighty and that same year, but in December nineteen
eighty four American churchwomen were raped and killed by security forces.
These are the nuts. Before that, in nineteen seventy seven,
Catholic priests Rutilio Grande was killed on his way to mass.
These things were regular, and it was all because of
the practice of liberation theology, because these Jesuits in Salvador.

(32:30):
It wasn't just Savado, but at the time there was
this resurgence of like actually caring for the poor. They're like,
why aren't we not doing what Jesus said to do?
And so that's what they were doing and that made
them targets. And I guess an episode on liberation theology
would have made sense before this, but I am working

(32:51):
on that. We've talked about it here and there, because
we also had an episode on Camilo Estrepo, Yes what
the revolutiontionary priests I think they called him. Yeah, Because Brazil, Columbia,
a lot of countries in Latin America had resurgence of
this belief of like let's actually do what Jesus said.

(33:14):
And it's very interesting because at the same time you
had the Catholic Church in Chile who was helping the
right wing, so it's very interesting. Yeah. Anyway, I don't
want to get too off the rails again, so I
am working on an episode on Liberation Theology to follow that.
With the I want to explore the conspiracy theory about

(33:40):
the CIA infiltrating not only in SA but other Central
American countries with evangelical missionaries purposely to destroy the Liberation
Theology movement. So that's why I want to do that.
So that's coming in the near future. So just days

(34:01):
before the massacre, Segundo Montes had spoken to NPR and
he said, we all must risk a little and again
he was one of the six Jesuits who were killed,
and that's what he said, we all have to risk
a little bit to like make the world a better place.
And they were targeted not only for their repeated messages

(34:21):
and actions to support the most vulnerable, but all of
them had also been speaking out against the war because
I mean, supposedly, if you're a follower of Jesus, you
would also be against war. Oh right, yeah, you would think.
And so for that they were called communists, Marxists, guerrilleros, subversives.
The list goes on. Even when reporting on their murders,

(34:45):
the New York Times called them leftists, intellectuals. Yeah, And
in response, the then Archbishop of San Francisco offered them
the words of a different archbishop, Elder Camara, who was
the archbishop during the twenty one year Brazilian dictatorship that
ended in nineteen eighty five. So he wrote back to

(35:07):
them quoting this archbishop, and that quote is, when I
feed the hungry, they call me a saint. When I
ask why they have no food, they call me a communist.
And those words, oh my god, tour words have not
been sent like that is spot on with There's a

(35:30):
reason again that all these Jesuits were targeted, and that's
because of their This is encapsulating what they believed in
one sentence. And so the Jesuits who were killed on
November sixteenth, nineteen eighty nine were Ignacio e Yacuria, Ignacio
Martin Barro, Seguno Montez, Juan Ramon Moreno, Joaquin Lopez I Lopez,

(35:55):
Amando Lopez, and then Elber Ramos, who was the housekeeper,
the cook and her daughter Selina Ramos, and Ignacio Ya Kuria.
He was the rector or, the head of the university,
but he also contributed greatly to the field of liberation philosophy,
which focused on the liberation of the oppressed in order

(36:16):
to reach the fullness of humanity. So he contributed greatly
to that field. And he of course was also a
strong follower of liberation theology and contributed to the practice
of that too. Semuno Montez was the assistant rector of
the university and he also again they were all liberation theologists.
I don't need to keep repeating that. But he was

(36:37):
also a scholar of social anthropology and he researched and
wrote about land ownership, democracy, the military power distribution, and
its effects on the Salvadoran emigration to the US. He
published articles on the economic and political motives for Salvadoran's
leaving and emigrating to the US, and in these articles

(37:01):
he criticized the US government's claims of Salvagorian immigrants being
they wanted to kill him and right they He criticized
them the making of them economic refugees, which unqualified them
for political asylum. Yeah, so he straight up called that out,
which I talked about in the sanctuary movement. You did, yes,
you did everything. You just connected right every Oh, well

(37:27):
we were duh. Well it was also Nicaragua. Yeah, so
oh and there's a community founded by refugees of the
civil war in Morassan who named there's town after him?
So it's called, yeah, an area that has now been

(37:52):
heavily policed by the regime. Might I add I repeat?
Everything is connected? Yes. Ignacio Martin Barro was also a scholar, philosopher,
and social psychologists. He argued that psychology should be developed
to address the historical contexts, the social conditions and aspirations

(38:15):
of the people, and he believed students of psychology should
learn to analyze human behavior in the location of their practice.
Of course, yes, to bear in mind where they are.
So he and I was not floored, But like amazed,
I guess he believed the solution to mental health problems
in societies was to transform that society to transcend the

(38:38):
historical reality of oppression. And then as long as systems
of oppression continued, mental health problems would persist. That's why
they wanted to kill him. You're going to find yourself
saying that with every one of them. Yeah, they were
not only like so caring of the people in their community,
they were like highly intelligent people who like published art goals.

(39:00):
Like again, he literally he was a huge contributor to
the practice of like this different kind of psychology, right,
which I'm just I'm in awe really like all they
were doing. They were ahead of their time. Yeah, And
those the three that I just named were Spanish Salvadoran
citizens born in Spain. Father Juaquin Lopez and Lopez was

(39:27):
born in Chalchuapa in Salvador on August sixteenth, nineteen eighteen,
and he became a Jesuit with the Mexican Jesuits, first
in en Paso, Texas, and he began his theological studies
in the US and then finished them in Spain. A

(39:48):
few years after completing his studies, he began efforts in
Salvador to create the foundation called fe Faith and Joy,
which he directed until the time of his death. And
this organization they opened thirty educational centers in marginalized communities

(40:09):
where forty eight thousand people received vocational training and education.
And that's what they wanted to kill him, No, but
he considered his work with fay A crucial to address
the problem of lack of education because in educated people, yes,
they can't grow together, they can they can, you know,
that's how you One of the things you can do

(40:29):
to address poverty is to teach people jobs that will
get them out of poverty. And to him, this was
one of the most pressing problems in the country and
that's why he was working with fay Alga to help this.
And so again they were all doing such important work.
Father Amando Lopez was also born in Spain, and he

(40:51):
spent time in Salvador and Quito, Ecuador, to complete his education.
He not only you know, was a theologian Jesu Way,
but he also studied classical humanities and philosophy. He received
degrees in Europe and then returned to a SADOD to
teach at the San Jose la Montagnes and then shortly

(41:11):
became the school's rector, and he also taught philosophy. He
arrived in Nicaragua Managua, Nicaragua in nineteen seventy five, and
when he arrived he saw the Somosa regime regime and
like there really like learned, like, yeah, liberation theology is

(41:32):
even more important. During the bombing of civilians from the
Samosa regime, he opened his university campus to as a
what do they call it, like a refugee camp, to
families and need And he didn't need to do that,
but he did. Father Gjuandra Moon Moreno, he was also

(41:52):
born in Spain. Oh, most of them were born in Spain,
now that I'm thinking about it. He also taught the
university spend time in Panama. He also taught philosophy, and
he supervised the construction of the Monsignor Romero Pastoral Center.
And he had like he was very accomplished academically, but

(42:15):
he aspired to be a priest at a rural parish
and he did a lot of work in very rural,
marginalized communities. And Julia Alberramos she was born in Santiago
de Maria and Salvador on March fifth, nineteen forty seven.
She worked as a domestic employee in San Salvador and
during the coffee harvest, she would leave her job to

(42:38):
cut coffee at the plantation where her husband worked. In
nineteen seventy the plantation owner was kidnapped and killed, which
is one of the things that the Geiros were doing.
Taking like oh, it's like it sounds like something they
were doing. Yeah, taking these people who were members of
the Oligarchic in kidnapping them for ransom and sometimes killing them.
That was a thing like, I'm not denying they and

(43:00):
also do violent acts. And so that's when she quit
working at the plantation and they she moved to Hayake,
where her husband worked as a watchman and she farmed
corn and beans. They had four kids together, two of

(43:21):
them died and so one of them, her sixteen year
old Selena Meredith, was living with her at the university
when the massacre took place. She began to work at
the Jesuits residence in nineteen eighty five, and then her
husband started working there in nineteen eighty nine as a gardener,

(43:43):
and her body was found wrapped around Selena's around her
daughter trying to protect her. Oh my god, I'm going
to cry, it's so sad. And speaking of her daughter,
Selena Marise Ramos, she was born in haijak And Salad
on February twenty third, nineteen seventy six. In nineteen eighty nine.

(44:05):
She had finished her first year of high school at
the josela mian VIACRDA Institute in Santa t clab And.
On November eleventh, nineteen eighty nine, and Fmlen patrol bombed
one of the entrances to the UCA, which shattered all
the windows in the Dramo's household. And so from that

(44:25):
night on, Celena and her mom slept in a small
room next to the Jesuits dining hall. They thought they
would be safer there. Yeah, on the night of the massacre,
Selena's father stayed at their home that was bombed, and
they were at the Jesuits, which is why they were
found by the Atla Gatte battalion, and he was the

(44:48):
one to find their bodies at there at the Jesuits
together along with the Jesuits. He found all of them.
I can't imagine seeing all of that, right, Yeah, it's
just it's horrible, and it's it's I don't know, Yeah,
it's a lot, it is, and so unlike other instances

(45:17):
of like wars, where like nobody is held accountable. I
don't know if it's because it happened to like a
lot of Spanish. Maybe they were Spanish Chavadorian citizens. Yeah,
but Spain pushed for prosecuting the people who did this,

(45:39):
and so when was it so a judge Spain had
already been calling for the arrest of these people. But
in November eighteenth of in twenty twenty four, twenty twenty four,
a judgment a little rule that the country's former president
and ten others would stand trial for the killing of

(45:59):
the sixth as a priest, the housekeeper and her daughter.
And at the time they wereabouts of Alfredo Cristiani, who
was president and who ordered these murders to be done.
His warabouts were unknown when this was announced. When this
ruling was announced, and there was a warrant issued for

(46:20):
his arrest, and there was no date when the ruling
was announced, but the ruling did come thirty five, almost
exactly thirty five years to the date of the killings. Yeah,
that was twenty twenty four. Spain had already been convicting
some of these people, though aside from it, because it

(46:42):
looks like in twenty twenty Inocente, what a fucking coincidence
of a name anyway, Spain convicted, No, for real, Spain
convicted in Santa Montano, who was a Soudan colonel for
the murder of five of the priests, and he sent
he was entenced to one hundreds or three years in prison,
and he was also going to be tried in the

(47:03):
group of eleven in this ruling in Salvador, and the
trial is supposed to take place even if those charge
are not present, which includes some of the names I
read already, but also the president, the former president Christiani,
and Rolfo Parker, who was a legal advisor to the

(47:26):
Salvadoran Armed Forces at the time of the killings, was
also going to be tried for fraud and for covering up,
and then another two separate military agents. And I'm trying
to find if this trial ever took place because oh sorry,
before I look for the information on the trial. In

(47:47):
August twenty twenty three, the Archbishop of Sant Sa Rador
started the canonization process for the six Jesuits, specifically for
Father at Yakuryah. So that's still ongoing. But let's see,
I don't know that's about separate things because on topside

(48:10):
from this already horrible stuff, Alfredado Christiani was also found
to have like a bunch of offshore accounts with money.
Oh then that was revealed in the Pandora papers fifteen
offshore companies in the British Virgin Islands and Panama. And
this was first set up in nineteen ninety two. So

(48:32):
so yeah, also stealing money, which should be no surprise
to anyone. Yeah, and then sorry, here's the actual link
that I wanted here it is okay, And so this
is from Spain convicting the person I just said in
twenty twenty, who was convicted for one hundred and thirty
three years. But what I was trying to find. Oh sorry,

(48:53):
and this man, you know, Cente, who was not in
a Cente lived in Massachusetts, every Massachusetts for a while,
and he was extradited from the US to Spain in
twenty seventeen to face this trial. And the Spanish court
found that Montano, a retired career military officer in Salvador

(49:13):
and vice Minister of Defense at the time the mergers,
was part of the h He was part of the
meeting that gave an order, gave the order to kill
a Yakuria and leave no witnesses. So he was part
of the meeting. But what I what I was unable
to find even earlier when I was actually writing my
notes was the whereabouts of Cristiani, So I think his

(49:37):
trial hasn't happened yet. I see, and supposedly the trial
was going to take place with or without them the accused.
But I also couldn't. I was trying to find information
on the trial. It wouldn't be a surprise if this
was all like halted during the Bukel regime. So because

(49:59):
he halted some other trials, wasn't the trial for in
moste Yeah, yeah, that was stopped, so it wouldn't be surprising.
But I can't. I couldn't find more information, so we'll
look out for that and hopefully update that in another episode.
But yeah, that was the nineteen eighty nine Jesuits massacre. Wow,

(50:23):
that was rough. It was It was okay, and that
brings us to the end of the episode. I hope
this was one less in Estadia Unknown for you, Bye bye.
Estoria's ANNN is produced by Carmen and Christina, researched by
Carmen and Christina, edited by Christina. You can find sources

(50:45):
for every episode at Estoria's Unknown dot com and in
our show notes. Creating the podcast has a lot of work,
so if you want to help us out financially. You
can do so by supporting us on Patreon at patreon
dot com. Slash She studied as an own podcast

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The 1989 Jesuit Massacre

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

Crime Junkie

All Episodes

The 1989 Jesuit Massacre

Stuff You Should Know