May 29, 2025 • 27 mins
The Lynching of Josefa took place on July 5, 1851 in Downieville, California in Sierra county. Throughout history, she has gone unnamed, her name has been changed or only a first name was ever provided. Her name was Josefa Loaiza, as time went on, her name became only Juanita. She was the first and only Mexican woman lynched in California
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Music Credit: Hustlin (Instrumental) by Neffex
This episode was edited by Bex Carlos & Alex Rogpe
Sources
The Injustice Never Leaves You: Anti-Mexican Violence in Texas by Monica Munoz Martinez
Unspeakable Violence: Remapping U.S. and Mexican National Imaginaries (Latin America Otherwise)
Forgotten Dead: Mob Violence against Mexicans in the United States, 1848-1928
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/historias-unknown--6253658/support.
If you have topic suggestions, feel free to email Historiasunknownpodcast@gmail.com or use the contact us form on the website https://www.historiasunknown.com/contact/
Want ad free episodes? And weekly bonus episodes? Support Historias Unknown on Patreon https://www.patreon.com/HistoriasUnknownPodcast
Follow on social media:
Instagram: https : //www.instagram.com/historiasunknown/
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@historiasunknown
Music Credit: Hustlin (Instrumental) by Neffex
This episode was edited by Bex Carlos & Alex Rogpe
Sources
The Injustice Never Leaves You: Anti-Mexican Violence in Texas by Monica Munoz Martinez
Unspeakable Violence: Remapping U.S. and Mexican National Imaginaries (Latin America Otherwise)
Forgotten Dead: Mob Violence against Mexicans in the United States, 1848-1928
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/historias-unknown--6253658/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi everyone. This is Carman and Christina and this is
Estadias Unknown, a podcast where we talk about Latin American history.
Is sometimes deterrible and deals with heavy topics like racism, corruption,
and genocide. But more than that, it's also about resistance,
power and community. And this is part two of a
mini series I'm doing on the history of lynchings or
(00:31):
mob violence on Mexicans in the US. In part one,
I talked about the conditions in which Mexicans found themselves
faced with mob violence in the name of frontier justice.
Mexicans were often lynched for thefts, land disputes and racial
prejudice or like xenophobic reasons. Yeah, and I share some
(00:51):
examples of mob violence in California. In this episode, I
want to talk about one specific case that made history,
as she was the first and only Mexican women lynched
in California. And throughout history she has gone unnamed, her
name has been changed or only a first name is
(01:12):
ever given to her. But her name was Josefa Loaisa,
and for some reason, as time went on, she became Juanita.
The lynching of Hosefa took place on July fifth, eighteen
fifty one, in Downeyville, California, in Sierra County. It's located,
it's still there. It's located on Highway forty nine across
(01:32):
the Yuba River and Downey River. And for that reason,
it was called the Forks at one point because it
was like where the fork of these two rivers meet.
And unlike many former mining towns, Downeyville is still there
with a population of two hundred and ninety. It's like
an unincorporated like you know those ones community. Yeah, like small,
very small, like a lot of these former mining towns
(01:54):
that are still there are like they're not big. Yeah.
And as you can tell from the date of the lynching,
the day before that was one of celebration aka Independence Day,
but it also marked the one year anniversary of California
joining the Union, and the festivities turned violent. After Governor
John B. Weller gave a speech, the crowd erupted in
(02:16):
a drunken celebration that turned into a riot that went
on until the next morning. And maybe because of all
that was already happening, on the night of July fourth,
John Cannon felt inspired or moved or something to do
whatever he did next. No, No, he was drinking with a
group of men and then they were, like, I don't know,
(02:36):
being drunk together and just loud and violent. And he
decided that he was going to go to a shack,
and these men followed him to this small shack. In
the shack, Josefa was asleep in her house. She heard
a loud bang. John Cannon had torn the door off
a shack and he let himself in. He picked up
her scarf that was on the floor, planning to use
(02:57):
it to subdue her. Probably, oh my god, yeah, yeah.
Her husband happened to be home that night, so jose
and Josefa yelled at the man. They were like arguing,
and he left. But it seems that this is something
he might have done regularly, like break her door down
and assault her. Really, yes, though this has never been confirmed,
that's like the likely situation there. I think it makes
(03:20):
sense because how did he like nowhere to go? Yeah,
like why did that specific shot come to mind right
away when he was drunk and rowdy and violent. The
next morning, on the fifth, John Cannon returned to the
house to apologize for what he had done the night before,
but this didn't go well. Jose Josepha's partner was there,
and he was demanding John Cannon pay for the damages
(03:42):
to the door, as he should, right, And then jose
and Josepha turned to each other to speak in Spanish
to each other, and this just made John Cannon lose
a shit? Is there right? Right? But he got angry
red and angry with Red talking about me. Even if
they were like he broke down their door. Yeah for real,
they're probably like thinking about how much she should turn.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
He called Uta a who and in response, with zero hesitation,
she grabbed a knife and stabbed them in the chest.
I stand, was she wrong? No? No? No? He died instantly.
Jossein Josepha fled to a local saloon, where they were
caught by a lynch mob. They were taken to the
town plaza and this mob wanted to lynch both of
(04:26):
them on the spot. And you know, the racism it
was high that day. They had just been celebrating Marca
the night before. Oh yeah, thirst for violence against anyone?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Not why?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
It was off the charts. And I'm like, Okay, I
understand stabbing someone is technically wrong, but where is the
outrage for him breaking into some random shacks, supposedly random?
Although he probably was trying to and there, Yeah, there's
a lot of speculation that he was used to doing
this to her. Yeah, so like where is the outrage then,
Like these people were only basically defending themselves exactly. And
(05:00):
so two men tried to step up and defend Jossein Josefa.
One was doctor Aiken, who was like, no, you can't
lynch her because she's pregnant. Oh my. The mob beat
him up and threatened the other man who tried to
defend her, and they were like, we'll kill anyone who
steps up to defend her, like that was your warning, thirsty,
thirsty for blood. Yes, some of the mob created a
(05:23):
committee to supposedly try Josepha dumb and I say supposedly
because like people try to claim she was not lynched
because she had a trial, but a trial farmed by
a mob ready to kill you was hardly it's hardly.
Just yeah, that was not a jury of her peters,
because these were angry white men who wanted to attack
her from the get Yes, so you know, they had
(05:45):
a supposed trial. They brought four witnesses who were all
friends with John Cannon. Again, not just no, jose was
allowed to say some words. Josefa was allowed to say
less words his friends. John Cannon's friends testified that from
the moment John returned to their house, the women looked
angry and determined, and she had the eyes of the devil.
(06:05):
Of course, he shouldn't even gone back, even if he
was trying to apologize. Just stay the fuck away from her,
Get away from her, get a job. Yes, and jose testified.
So I'm going to read his testimony as it was
in the book that I read, the deceased. And so
John Cannon, the diseased, in company with several others, broke
down the door to my room. On meeting the disease
in the morning and asking him for payment, he used
(06:25):
insulting language, called me a liar and a son of
a bitch. He then drew back his fist as if
to strike me, when I stated to him that I
did not wish to fight. He was large and I
a small man. At this time, Josefa came forward and
told him to strike her. She was also insulted. He
called her deer and then after that a whore. She
went into the house and my solicitation. When in she
(06:48):
took a knife from the table and as a disease
was about to enter, still calling her bad names both
in English and Spanish. She stamped him. Only one hinge
of the door was broken. The top one had been
previously broken, alluding to previous incidents. Right. Yes, the door
was fastened with two staples, one of which was pulled
out when Forcibly entered. That's all he was allowed to say. Again,
(07:11):
Hosefa was allowed to say less. So she said, I
took the knife to defend myself. I had been told
that some of the boys wanted to get into my
room and sleep with me. A Mexican boy told me so,
and it frightened me so that I used to fasten
the door and take a knife with me to bed.
I told the the seas that was no place to
call me bad names. Come in and call me so,
(07:34):
And as he was coming in, I stabbed him. That
sounds like self defense. She's over here calling her put
on her own fucking house. And she was like, well,
come in and tell me, And he did come in,
So I don't know. I don't know about this. Yeah,
free her. I'm gonna side it no matter what. Yes.
In the documentation of the court proceedings, all the witnesses
and the supposed jury. They were all named fully like
(07:55):
first and last name, except for Hossein Josefa. Oh my god,
Moselle was just hose Of course, Josefa wasn't even named.
She was just written down as the defendant. That's it.
It didn't take long for this quote jury to make
their decision. They declared her guilty in just a few minutes.
Of course it didn't. Yeah, and one could argue that
they already knew what they were going to do. Yeah,
(08:15):
one could very much argue that. Yeah, they told Hosefha
she would be lynched and took her to Jersey Bridge.
By the time she was at the bridge, the crowd
grew to three thousand. Josefa climbed onto the scaffold, moved
her long black hair out of the way, placed the
rope around her neck herself. When she was asked if
she had any last words, she replied, nothing, but I
would do the same if I was so provoked. Honestly,
(08:37):
I'm a fan of her, I love her. I know
she's so real for that. Yeah. Then before she walked
out to the plank, she turned to the mob and
said adios senores. Wow, queen. She stood there calmly until
the plank was pulled out from under her. The crowd
yelled and cheered as she felled, and they left her
like just dangling there for thirty minutes. Then they removed
(09:00):
her and buried her with John Cannon in the same grave.
Now why would they do that? I don't know. I
have no idea. What about jose Oh, they threatened him
to if he was still in town in twenty four hours,
they would lynch him and he had to flee for
his safety. Wow. Did I really not write that down? Yeah,
that's what happened to him. Wow. Also, I want to
know that the governor was part of the mob and
(09:22):
he was pandering for votes during all of it. Of course. Yeah.
And Josefa and John Cannon were buried in the same
grave until they were the coup years later. So that
a theater. That's disgusting, it is It is so offensive.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
This is the man that like accosted her and forced
her to stab him, and they're going to go bury
them for supposedly in eternity in the same grave.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
That's disgusting. It reminds me of Hugh Hefner wanted to
be buried in the same grave Marilyn Monroe. Yes, even
though like he had no right, like nothing, yeah, to
be able to do that. And then they were only
removed from that grave so that a theater could be
put there. Like, wow, that's insulton injury. Yeah. And although
she basically disappeared from history after the lynching, at the time,
(10:08):
it must have been well known because even Frederick Douglass
commented on it. Really, yes, he wrote that if jose
Loaisa had been white, she would not have faced the
same fate, and that she was lynched because of her
cast and her Mexican blood. Yeah, he's right, he is right.
Her lynching is unique for a lot of reasons, including
that it's one of the only ones that are marked
(10:31):
with a historical marker, which you can still find today
in Downeyville. Really, but the marker says Kwanita, doesn't say Josepha. Wow,
Like I don't understand what her name changed. I feel
like that also had to be racist. I don't know, right, like, oh,
you know what, Juanita sounds more cute, and we want
her to sound like taken away her agency almost. I
feel maybe I don't know, there's something there that I'm
(10:52):
not quite like, I don't know how to say it. Grasping. Yeah, yeah,
like we don't know the reason, but it feels racism
and sexist. Yes, right, thank you. Yeah. Another unique aspect
of it all is that at the time and before
the lynching, like basically no one knew of her except
the people that were friends with her. But like she
didn't matter to any one until she did this. That's
(11:13):
saying something too h So much could be said about that.
The first mayor of Downeyville, William Downey, has a chapter
about her lynching and his memoir what and he titled
it Lynching a Beauty. Oh, I've heard of this. Disgusting,
absolutely disgusting. Yeah. In the chapter, he says that her
name was Juanita, even though it wasn't. Maybe that's where
(11:34):
it came from. Oh, you know what, maybe he was
the first to change it. Of course he got her
name wrong, right, Like, that doesn't matter, Juanita, they're the
same thing. He's like, every Mexican guy knows na juan
Therefore a Mexican woman would be Kuanita. Yeah, something I
honestly can't figure out. But he wrote that her name
was Juanita and her husband's name was unknown even though
it was and if it weren't for the lynching, Juanita
(11:55):
would also have been unknown. And again it's not confirmed
if he was the first one to change her name,
but that's what she became known as, Juanita of Downeyville. Wow.
And whenever you see this in any books that are
not by people that are directly speaking about this in
a racial lens, authors never gave her a last name.
They claimed she was an unmarried sex worker and that
(12:18):
justified this. Oh my god, she had a whole husband. Yeah.
And it wasn't until very recently that her last name
was discovered to be Loaisa. And that is because in
eighteen sixty eight, seventeen years after her lynching, her husband
Jose Maria Luisa, attempted to file a claim with the
US and Mexico Claims Commission. This commission came to be
(12:38):
after the Treaty of Vidalgo to set up claims by
citizens of the United States and Mexico for losses suffered
due to the acts of one government against nationals, with
the other oh basically to handle. It was a lot
of land disputes, is what happened, and so he asked
this commission. He was asking for three thousand dollars for
(12:58):
the lynching of his wife and for his banishment, which
at the time would have been like one hundred fifty
thousand dollars Today, I think you should ask for more. Yeah. Really,
his claim was ignored until eighteen seventy five. When did
he first filed the claim eighteen sixty eight. Okay, a
whole twenty five years after her lynching, and his claim
(13:19):
was the number nine hundred and four out of nine
hundred and ninety eight. Wow, eight hundred thirty one of
these claims were all declined and only one hundred so
many of them. Yeah, only one hundred sixty seven were
ever approved, and one hundred thirty one of those one
hundred sixty seven were often the same incident when the
Texas Rangers went through Piedras Negras and destroyed it. Wow.
(13:42):
You know that's so wild that you're bringing up the
Texas Rangers destroying this place as negavas because recently I
saw a comment that we got I'm not sure on
which video because it didn't click on the comment, but
I wonder our videos that I just saw the notification
come in and somebody commented and don't forget what the
Texas Rangers did to Mexicans and whatever. I don't know
what they were talking about because it didn't click on it.
(14:03):
But I mean, there's so many incidents. The most well
known is the borband Need massacre. But yeah, the Texas
Ranger made it like it was their thing to go
around killing Mexicans. Like that's so gross. Like if you
include their acts of violence toward Mexicans, the number of
lyn jans it goes way up. And I said that
in the first episode. Yeah, but it just like it
shows so much that the majority of those approved claims
(14:26):
were all from one incident enacted by the Texas Rangers.
That is so wild. Yeah. And in the folk tales
that keep her story alive, her name is sometimes Juanita,
sometimes just the Mexican woman, sometimes the Spanish American woman,
other times Greaser. Wow. When the Daily Alta, California wrote
(14:46):
about her lynching on July ninth, eighteen fifty one, they said,
we are informed by Deputy Sheriff Gray that on Saturday afternoon,
a Spanish woman was hung for stabbing to the heart
a man by the name of Cannon, killing him incid.
Mister Grain formed us that the disease in the company
with some others, had the knight previously entered the house
of the women and created a riot and a disturbance,
(15:08):
which so outraged her that when he presented himself the
next morning to apologize for his behavior, he was met
at the door by the female who had in her
hand a large bowie knife, which she instantly drove into
his heart. And the way it was written, so it's
not explicitly said in the article, but the way they
wrote the situation, they're blaming her for her own lynching. Yeah,
(15:31):
like he broke into her house and oh my gosh,
she was so outraged she was already at the door
with the knife, which is not even how it happened,
and ridiculous, such ridiculousness saying yeah. Other notable historians of
the time did the same thing. They wrote about how
only improper women lived in mining towns. She lived there
with her man, Yeah, but that didn't matter to them.
And it is documented that at the time of Josepha's lynching,
(15:53):
only twelve women lived in Downeyville, and according to like
historians or journalists of the time, they all said only
sex workers, but obviously they didn't use that word. Yeah,
they're the ones who lived in town. I have heard
that too about this time. Yeah, no respectable woman lived there.
I mean she had a man and he was working,
and maybe she just wanted to be with him, and
(16:15):
if anything, like these women were there filling a demand. Yeah.
So at the end of the day, it's still the
man's fault. And even if she was not a proper woman,
that doesn't mean she should have been lynched right or
been disturbed in her own home repeatedly by a man
who was gonna this is the violent to her. Why
else would he be going in the middle of the
fucking exactly breaking into her damn house, which it was
(16:38):
alluded that he had done this previously, right when she
wasn't written in this way. Then she was sexualized, of course,
like that guy, the mayor he said in his memoir
The Beauty that was Lynched or whatever he wrote. Yes,
speaking of the Mayor in his chapter Lynching a Beauty,
he wrote the following quote. Her figure was, Oh my god, sorry,
this is gonna piss you wat sorry before you started,
(17:00):
I was going to say, let me guess as she
went down or I don't know what the word is
that she hung her boobs bounce like he's gonna write
some shit like that is and he she boobly hung
while and she died. I caught a glimpse of her
curbs quote. Her figure was richly developed and in strict proportions.
Her features delicate, and her olive complexion lent them a
pleasing softness. Her black hair was nearly done up on
(17:22):
state occasions, and the luster in her eyes shone in
various degrees. Even when you're being hung, you're still being sexualized.
This is crazy done from the soft dove like expression
of a love sick maiden to the fierce scowl of
an unfuriated lioness, never being in the grey Latina allegation
(17:44):
that we're gone according to her temper, which was the
only thing not well balanced about her. This is why
I have a problem with the bicy latina stereotype. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
but yet I like, seriously, I'm not done with her quotes.
Oh my god. Hubert Howe Bancroft, a writer for the
(18:04):
popular Tribunos, wrote the following. First of all, that name
Hubert red Flood. Yeah, it was a little woman young
to only twenty four, scarcely five feet in height, with
the slender, symmetrical figure, agile and extremely graceful in her movements,
with soft skin of olive hue, long black hair, and dark, deep,
lustrous eyes opening again with the lustrous eyes Jesus Christ. Yeah,
(18:29):
opening like a window to the faggot flames which kindled
with love or hate. That's not what fag I meant
at the time. I know, I know, I heard opening
and I'm like, oh no, that's sexual shone brightly within.
Mexico was her country, her blood Spanish diluted with the
Aboriginal American. Her name was Juanita. It was not Quanita.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
That was her name.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Her name was not Quanita. So confident but so wrong.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
They really love this olive skin description and the lustrous eyes.
I am sorry, I I feel like I'm being objectified
right now.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
In reality we are, no, but we are. And there's
a lot to get from both of these quotes that
is not explicitly said, but it's so there right Like,
she was so beautiful. It was not the man she
stabbed to death, his fault that she stabbed him. He
felt the need to come onto her because your eyes
(19:23):
are so lustrous. She was giving him lust eyes. She
wanted it, she was asking for it. Yeah, and she's
just that beautiful. It's her fault for being that beautiful
and Mexican and olive skin disgusting and she should have
let him do what he wanted to do. Oh and
her anger, which can't be helped because she's Mexican, is
the reason she stabbed him, her only flaw being angry
(19:46):
being a spicy latina. Yep, I know we already mentioned it,
but I wrote in my notes, Okay, and if this
is not the literal spicy Latina trope coming into play
in real life with terrible outcomes from the eighteen fucking
hundreds to now when we're still being subjected to the
spicy latina stereo time, and I hate it. I just
can't stand I can't stand it. No me either, My
(20:08):
Latina wife, like, shut the fuck up, shut the fuck up,
shut up, just shut up up. We need to stop.
We kept doing, y'all. We have been watching the weekend
TikTok videos of his acting all day. But no, it
really is disgusting. And yeah, every time it's like my
Latina wife, oh oh, in my house. My Ltina wife
(20:28):
beats me, and it's like, shut up. Joints are crazy.
Oh they're crazy. They're gonna stab you. I'm sick of it.
Don't install her. First of all, I'm the most chill person. Okay, no, no,
but for real, I'm not like other girls. Huh. I'm
not like other Latinas. No. But like, I'm tired of
this fucking trope. I'm so tired of it. It's harmful.
(20:50):
It is it is, and you know what, sorry to
go off on a little. No, I love it here.
But that's another thing that pissed me off so much
when that annoying US guy on TikTok was talking about
that movie from Dust to Dawn when Sinners came out,
Because Dust Till Dawn is set in the wild West, right,
and the only Mexican woman in it is san Mahayek
(21:10):
and she's feeling the spicy Latina role when in real
life she would have been lynched. Yeah. True, this is
not a thing to celebrate. You're right. Also, her story
appears in this old book called Love Stories of California.
How is that a love story? It's not?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Absolutely not, my god, she was a victim of the
state in a white mob violence.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And I didn't want to add. A poem that was
written by someone who called themselves minor, and it's titled
the Hanging of the Mexican Woman. It goes to us
long ago a July morn, the stars paled in the
early light. A man lays stark and dead at dawn,
his life ebbed with the shades of night. A woman,
wronged by broader strife, bravely took the avengers part okay.
(21:59):
One swich aimed blow. Her glistening knife plunged deep into
a miner's heart. Men gathered then from near and far,
and left to silence many a mine on many a
far off creek and bar then shaded by the oak
and pine, and rushed to swell the surging throng like
gathering streams in onward flood man thus were wildly borne
(22:21):
along who shrank from shadding human blood. The hot sun
shone above the scene. The river murmured in its bed.
The hills were clothed in summer green, and birds were
fluttering overhead. Friends tried to shield her, all in vain.
They brought her forth with wildest geers. The dye was
cast her blood mustain the annals or anals, and I
(22:43):
want to say it's anals, but I'm not sure the
anals of the pioneers. Okay, I feel like it's pron
It betrayed her as wronged. She was wronged. Yeah, also
as a murdering avenger. But you know what, she was
defending herself. But that's tight. Yeah, yeah, she was. She
was avenging herself. She was. Josepha's lynching is still the
(23:05):
most well known lynching of a woman today. It was
told time and time again. Historical marker is still there,
even if her name was changed. It's also one of
the only ones that was drawn, and that sketch was
reproduced time and time again. You want to see it. Yeah,
we are so behind on Instagram because you can share
this on Instagram. Oh my god, Oh my god, I
(23:25):
forgot we had on Instagram size. You're realist, I mean, okay, wow.
If you are a Patreon listener, you will have seen
that video and the sketch and we will try to
remember to upload it on Instagram. I want to add,
she was absolutely not the only Mexican woman who was
lynched by a mob of white men in San Luis Obispo.
In nineteen fifty three, a Mexican woman who was only
(23:47):
documented as quote, game little vixen end quote what the
fuck does that mean? Oh my god, vixen. I don't
even know and I'm horrified, game little vixen. Yes. Wow.
She was taken from a jail with six Mexican men.
They had all been jailed for theft, and they were
all lynched together. And she again is not even named.
(24:08):
Like that's what they thought of us.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
In eighteen seventy three in Thriida, Colorado, an unknown Mexican
women was lynched after a white couple was murdered by
two Mexican men. A white mob lynched the two Mexican men,
but they were not done. That was not satisfying. They
found the women guilty by association, an accuser of trying
to hide the location of the Mexican men. Wow. And again,
(24:32):
her name never said, never shared, because she didn't matter.
While women only lynchings were rare, they did happen, and
it was common for white mobs just to not care
if they endangered Mexican women while enacting their version of justice.
There were times that a mob would burn down the
house of their target, which was like a Mexican man.
(24:54):
But they didn't care that his wife and kids were
also in the house.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Refuchiur Amidas, his wife Silva yes Merez, and their sixteen
year old daughter, Maria Ines Ramirez were lynched together in
Collin County, Texas. Wow. A sixteen year old? Yes, a
sixteen year old? And do you want another crime? What
They were accused of bewitching the town? What the fuck?
Oh my god? They were burned to death together. This
(25:21):
is me off for being witches supposedly. Wow. Speaking of Texas,
this is where the worst of the mob violence happened
to Mexicans, and it was at the hands of Texas
Rangers most of the time, of course. Yeah, and I'll
be sharing that in the next episode. And yeah, that's
it for this episode. This was a shorter one compared
to the last one. The next one is going to
(25:43):
be very long. Well, I'm looking forward to hearing about
the Texas Rangers. I'm not, but I am at the
same time, I'm already man. Yeah, that was part two
of my series of the history of flyin Chin. Man.
That's a lot, it is. Yeah, my brain is just
(26:04):
rotted with all this right now, I can imagine. Yeah,
if you want to hear us yapping, we do yap
over on Patreon, and I say yapping, but it's a
lot of like yelling, yelling. I'm just kidding, crying. No,
we talk about like things that are going on now
that you know are important. Yeah, current events, current events.
Sometimes we yap about other things, but most of the
(26:24):
time we're either talking about executive orders that are new,
new developments, things like that. So we have a free
book club on Patreon currently. We have already probably discussed
the factors by the time this episode comes out. Yeah,
who knows what our next book will be. Yeah, it
kind of randomly just happened. So it did, it did so,
And we have the link on Patreon for the channel
(26:48):
where we are going to be doing those book club
random book club discussions on whatever random book we do.
We should do Jesus and John Wayne. Should we do
Jesus and John Wayne? I feel like we should. Okay,
we should. All right, that's official, that's our next book
club book. And other than that, I hope that the
story of Josefa Loisa properly pissed you off. I'm kidding
(27:09):
that too, but also that it's one less Estoria known
for you Bye Bye. Astoria's ann is produced by Carmen
and Christina, researched by Carmen and Christina, edited by Christina.
You can find sources for every episode at Estoria's unknown
dot com and in our show notes. Creating the podcast
has a lot of work, so if you want to
help us out financially, you can do so by supporting
(27:31):
us on Patreon at Patreon dot com. Slash studio as
an own podcast
Hi everyone. This is Carman and Christina and this is
Estadias Unknown, a podcast where we talk about Latin American history.
Is sometimes deterrible and deals with heavy topics like racism, corruption,
and genocide. But more than that, it's also about resistance,
power and community. And this is part two of a
mini series I'm doing on the history of lynchings or
(00:31):
mob violence on Mexicans in the US. In part one,
I talked about the conditions in which Mexicans found themselves
faced with mob violence in the name of frontier justice.
Mexicans were often lynched for thefts, land disputes and racial
prejudice or like xenophobic reasons. Yeah, and I share some
(00:51):
examples of mob violence in California. In this episode, I
want to talk about one specific case that made history,
as she was the first and only Mexican women lynched
in California. And throughout history she has gone unnamed, her
name has been changed or only a first name is
(01:12):
ever given to her. But her name was Josefa Loaisa,
and for some reason, as time went on, she became Juanita.
The lynching of Hosefa took place on July fifth, eighteen
fifty one, in Downeyville, California, in Sierra County. It's located,
it's still there. It's located on Highway forty nine across
(01:32):
the Yuba River and Downey River. And for that reason,
it was called the Forks at one point because it
was like where the fork of these two rivers meet.
And unlike many former mining towns, Downeyville is still there
with a population of two hundred and ninety. It's like
an unincorporated like you know those ones community. Yeah, like small,
very small, like a lot of these former mining towns
(01:54):
that are still there are like they're not big. Yeah.
And as you can tell from the date of the lynching,
the day before that was one of celebration aka Independence Day,
but it also marked the one year anniversary of California
joining the Union, and the festivities turned violent. After Governor
John B. Weller gave a speech, the crowd erupted in
(02:16):
a drunken celebration that turned into a riot that went
on until the next morning. And maybe because of all
that was already happening, on the night of July fourth,
John Cannon felt inspired or moved or something to do
whatever he did next. No, No, he was drinking with a
group of men and then they were, like, I don't know,
(02:36):
being drunk together and just loud and violent. And he
decided that he was going to go to a shack,
and these men followed him to this small shack. In
the shack, Josefa was asleep in her house. She heard
a loud bang. John Cannon had torn the door off
a shack and he let himself in. He picked up
her scarf that was on the floor, planning to use
(02:57):
it to subdue her. Probably, oh my god, yeah, yeah.
Her husband happened to be home that night, so jose
and Josefa yelled at the man. They were like arguing,
and he left. But it seems that this is something
he might have done regularly, like break her door down
and assault her. Really, yes, though this has never been confirmed,
that's like the likely situation there. I think it makes
(03:20):
sense because how did he like nowhere to go? Yeah,
like why did that specific shot come to mind right
away when he was drunk and rowdy and violent. The
next morning, on the fifth, John Cannon returned to the
house to apologize for what he had done the night before,
but this didn't go well. Jose Josepha's partner was there,
and he was demanding John Cannon pay for the damages
(03:42):
to the door, as he should, right, And then jose
and Josepha turned to each other to speak in Spanish
to each other, and this just made John Cannon lose
a shit? Is there right? Right? But he got angry
red and angry with Red talking about me. Even if
they were like he broke down their door. Yeah for real,
they're probably like thinking about how much she should turn.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
He called Uta a who and in response, with zero hesitation,
she grabbed a knife and stabbed them in the chest.
I stand, was she wrong? No? No? No? He died instantly.
Jossein Josepha fled to a local saloon, where they were
caught by a lynch mob. They were taken to the
town plaza and this mob wanted to lynch both of
(04:26):
them on the spot. And you know, the racism it
was high that day. They had just been celebrating Marca
the night before. Oh yeah, thirst for violence against anyone?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Not why?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
It was off the charts. And I'm like, Okay, I
understand stabbing someone is technically wrong, but where is the
outrage for him breaking into some random shacks, supposedly random?
Although he probably was trying to and there, Yeah, there's
a lot of speculation that he was used to doing
this to her. Yeah, so like where is the outrage then,
Like these people were only basically defending themselves exactly. And
(05:00):
so two men tried to step up and defend Jossein Josefa.
One was doctor Aiken, who was like, no, you can't
lynch her because she's pregnant. Oh my. The mob beat
him up and threatened the other man who tried to
defend her, and they were like, we'll kill anyone who
steps up to defend her, like that was your warning, thirsty,
thirsty for blood. Yes, some of the mob created a
(05:23):
committee to supposedly try Josepha dumb and I say supposedly
because like people try to claim she was not lynched
because she had a trial, but a trial farmed by
a mob ready to kill you was hardly it's hardly.
Just yeah, that was not a jury of her peters,
because these were angry white men who wanted to attack
her from the get Yes, so you know, they had
(05:45):
a supposed trial. They brought four witnesses who were all
friends with John Cannon. Again, not just no, jose was
allowed to say some words. Josefa was allowed to say
less words his friends. John Cannon's friends testified that from
the moment John returned to their house, the women looked
angry and determined, and she had the eyes of the devil.
(06:05):
Of course, he shouldn't even gone back, even if he
was trying to apologize. Just stay the fuck away from her,
Get away from her, get a job. Yes, and jose testified.
So I'm going to read his testimony as it was
in the book that I read, the deceased. And so
John Cannon, the diseased, in company with several others, broke
down the door to my room. On meeting the disease
in the morning and asking him for payment, he used
(06:25):
insulting language, called me a liar and a son of
a bitch. He then drew back his fist as if
to strike me, when I stated to him that I
did not wish to fight. He was large and I
a small man. At this time, Josefa came forward and
told him to strike her. She was also insulted. He
called her deer and then after that a whore. She
went into the house and my solicitation. When in she
(06:48):
took a knife from the table and as a disease
was about to enter, still calling her bad names both
in English and Spanish. She stamped him. Only one hinge
of the door was broken. The top one had been
previously broken, alluding to previous incidents. Right. Yes, the door
was fastened with two staples, one of which was pulled
out when Forcibly entered. That's all he was allowed to say. Again,
(07:11):
Hosefa was allowed to say less. So she said, I
took the knife to defend myself. I had been told
that some of the boys wanted to get into my
room and sleep with me. A Mexican boy told me so,
and it frightened me so that I used to fasten
the door and take a knife with me to bed.
I told the the seas that was no place to
call me bad names. Come in and call me so,
(07:34):
And as he was coming in, I stabbed him. That
sounds like self defense. She's over here calling her put
on her own fucking house. And she was like, well,
come in and tell me, And he did come in,
So I don't know. I don't know about this. Yeah,
free her. I'm gonna side it no matter what. Yes.
In the documentation of the court proceedings, all the witnesses
and the supposed jury. They were all named fully like
(07:55):
first and last name, except for Hossein Josefa. Oh my god,
Moselle was just hose Of course, Josefa wasn't even named.
She was just written down as the defendant. That's it.
It didn't take long for this quote jury to make
their decision. They declared her guilty in just a few minutes.
Of course it didn't. Yeah, and one could argue that
they already knew what they were going to do. Yeah,
(08:15):
one could very much argue that. Yeah, they told Hosefha
she would be lynched and took her to Jersey Bridge.
By the time she was at the bridge, the crowd
grew to three thousand. Josefa climbed onto the scaffold, moved
her long black hair out of the way, placed the
rope around her neck herself. When she was asked if
she had any last words, she replied, nothing, but I
would do the same if I was so provoked. Honestly,
(08:37):
I'm a fan of her, I love her. I know
she's so real for that. Yeah. Then before she walked
out to the plank, she turned to the mob and
said adios senores. Wow, queen. She stood there calmly until
the plank was pulled out from under her. The crowd
yelled and cheered as she felled, and they left her
like just dangling there for thirty minutes. Then they removed
(09:00):
her and buried her with John Cannon in the same grave.
Now why would they do that? I don't know. I
have no idea. What about jose Oh, they threatened him
to if he was still in town in twenty four hours,
they would lynch him and he had to flee for
his safety. Wow. Did I really not write that down? Yeah,
that's what happened to him. Wow. Also, I want to
know that the governor was part of the mob and
(09:22):
he was pandering for votes during all of it. Of course. Yeah.
And Josefa and John Cannon were buried in the same
grave until they were the coup years later. So that
a theater. That's disgusting, it is It is so offensive.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
This is the man that like accosted her and forced
her to stab him, and they're going to go bury
them for supposedly in eternity in the same grave.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
That's disgusting. It reminds me of Hugh Hefner wanted to
be buried in the same grave Marilyn Monroe. Yes, even
though like he had no right, like nothing, yeah, to
be able to do that. And then they were only
removed from that grave so that a theater could be
put there. Like, wow, that's insulton injury. Yeah. And although
she basically disappeared from history after the lynching, at the time,
(10:08):
it must have been well known because even Frederick Douglass
commented on it. Really, yes, he wrote that if jose
Loaisa had been white, she would not have faced the
same fate, and that she was lynched because of her
cast and her Mexican blood. Yeah, he's right, he is right.
Her lynching is unique for a lot of reasons, including
that it's one of the only ones that are marked
(10:31):
with a historical marker, which you can still find today
in Downeyville. Really, but the marker says Kwanita, doesn't say Josepha. Wow,
Like I don't understand what her name changed. I feel
like that also had to be racist. I don't know, right, like, oh,
you know what, Juanita sounds more cute, and we want
her to sound like taken away her agency almost. I
feel maybe I don't know, there's something there that I'm
(10:52):
not quite like, I don't know how to say it. Grasping. Yeah, yeah,
like we don't know the reason, but it feels racism
and sexist. Yes, right, thank you. Yeah. Another unique aspect
of it all is that at the time and before
the lynching, like basically no one knew of her except
the people that were friends with her. But like she
didn't matter to any one until she did this. That's
(11:13):
saying something too h So much could be said about that.
The first mayor of Downeyville, William Downey, has a chapter
about her lynching and his memoir what and he titled
it Lynching a Beauty. Oh, I've heard of this. Disgusting,
absolutely disgusting. Yeah. In the chapter, he says that her
name was Juanita, even though it wasn't. Maybe that's where
(11:34):
it came from. Oh, you know what, maybe he was
the first to change it. Of course he got her
name wrong, right, Like, that doesn't matter, Juanita, they're the
same thing. He's like, every Mexican guy knows na juan
Therefore a Mexican woman would be Kuanita. Yeah, something I
honestly can't figure out. But he wrote that her name
was Juanita and her husband's name was unknown even though
it was and if it weren't for the lynching, Juanita
(11:55):
would also have been unknown. And again it's not confirmed
if he was the first one to change her name,
but that's what she became known as, Juanita of Downeyville. Wow.
And whenever you see this in any books that are
not by people that are directly speaking about this in
a racial lens, authors never gave her a last name.
They claimed she was an unmarried sex worker and that
(12:18):
justified this. Oh my god, she had a whole husband. Yeah.
And it wasn't until very recently that her last name
was discovered to be Loaisa. And that is because in
eighteen sixty eight, seventeen years after her lynching, her husband
Jose Maria Luisa, attempted to file a claim with the
US and Mexico Claims Commission. This commission came to be
(12:38):
after the Treaty of Vidalgo to set up claims by
citizens of the United States and Mexico for losses suffered
due to the acts of one government against nationals, with
the other oh basically to handle. It was a lot
of land disputes, is what happened, and so he asked
this commission. He was asking for three thousand dollars for
(12:58):
the lynching of his wife and for his banishment, which
at the time would have been like one hundred fifty
thousand dollars Today, I think you should ask for more. Yeah. Really,
his claim was ignored until eighteen seventy five. When did
he first filed the claim eighteen sixty eight. Okay, a
whole twenty five years after her lynching, and his claim
(13:19):
was the number nine hundred and four out of nine
hundred and ninety eight. Wow, eight hundred thirty one of
these claims were all declined and only one hundred so
many of them. Yeah, only one hundred sixty seven were
ever approved, and one hundred thirty one of those one
hundred sixty seven were often the same incident when the
Texas Rangers went through Piedras Negras and destroyed it. Wow.
(13:42):
You know that's so wild that you're bringing up the
Texas Rangers destroying this place as negavas because recently I
saw a comment that we got I'm not sure on
which video because it didn't click on the comment, but
I wonder our videos that I just saw the notification
come in and somebody commented and don't forget what the
Texas Rangers did to Mexicans and whatever. I don't know
what they were talking about because it didn't click on it.
(14:03):
But I mean, there's so many incidents. The most well
known is the borband Need massacre. But yeah, the Texas
Ranger made it like it was their thing to go
around killing Mexicans. Like that's so gross. Like if you
include their acts of violence toward Mexicans, the number of
lyn jans it goes way up. And I said that
in the first episode. Yeah, but it just like it
shows so much that the majority of those approved claims
(14:26):
were all from one incident enacted by the Texas Rangers.
That is so wild. Yeah. And in the folk tales
that keep her story alive, her name is sometimes Juanita,
sometimes just the Mexican woman, sometimes the Spanish American woman,
other times Greaser. Wow. When the Daily Alta, California wrote
(14:46):
about her lynching on July ninth, eighteen fifty one, they said,
we are informed by Deputy Sheriff Gray that on Saturday afternoon,
a Spanish woman was hung for stabbing to the heart
a man by the name of Cannon, killing him incid.
Mister Grain formed us that the disease in the company
with some others, had the knight previously entered the house
of the women and created a riot and a disturbance,
(15:08):
which so outraged her that when he presented himself the
next morning to apologize for his behavior, he was met
at the door by the female who had in her
hand a large bowie knife, which she instantly drove into
his heart. And the way it was written, so it's
not explicitly said in the article, but the way they
wrote the situation, they're blaming her for her own lynching. Yeah,
(15:31):
like he broke into her house and oh my gosh,
she was so outraged she was already at the door
with the knife, which is not even how it happened,
and ridiculous, such ridiculousness saying yeah. Other notable historians of
the time did the same thing. They wrote about how
only improper women lived in mining towns. She lived there
with her man, Yeah, but that didn't matter to them.
And it is documented that at the time of Josepha's lynching,
(15:53):
only twelve women lived in Downeyville, and according to like
historians or journalists of the time, they all said only
sex workers, but obviously they didn't use that word. Yeah,
they're the ones who lived in town. I have heard
that too about this time. Yeah, no respectable woman lived there.
I mean she had a man and he was working,
and maybe she just wanted to be with him, and
(16:15):
if anything, like these women were there filling a demand. Yeah.
So at the end of the day, it's still the
man's fault. And even if she was not a proper woman,
that doesn't mean she should have been lynched right or
been disturbed in her own home repeatedly by a man
who was gonna this is the violent to her. Why
else would he be going in the middle of the
fucking exactly breaking into her damn house, which it was
(16:38):
alluded that he had done this previously, right when she
wasn't written in this way. Then she was sexualized, of course,
like that guy, the mayor he said in his memoir
The Beauty that was Lynched or whatever he wrote. Yes,
speaking of the Mayor in his chapter Lynching a Beauty,
he wrote the following quote. Her figure was, Oh my god, sorry,
this is gonna piss you wat sorry before you started,
(17:00):
I was going to say, let me guess as she
went down or I don't know what the word is
that she hung her boobs bounce like he's gonna write
some shit like that is and he she boobly hung
while and she died. I caught a glimpse of her
curbs quote. Her figure was richly developed and in strict proportions.
Her features delicate, and her olive complexion lent them a
pleasing softness. Her black hair was nearly done up on
(17:22):
state occasions, and the luster in her eyes shone in
various degrees. Even when you're being hung, you're still being sexualized.
This is crazy done from the soft dove like expression
of a love sick maiden to the fierce scowl of
an unfuriated lioness, never being in the grey Latina allegation
(17:44):
that we're gone according to her temper, which was the
only thing not well balanced about her. This is why
I have a problem with the bicy latina stereotype. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
but yet I like, seriously, I'm not done with her quotes.
Oh my god. Hubert Howe Bancroft, a writer for the
(18:04):
popular Tribunos, wrote the following. First of all, that name
Hubert red Flood. Yeah, it was a little woman young
to only twenty four, scarcely five feet in height, with
the slender, symmetrical figure, agile and extremely graceful in her movements,
with soft skin of olive hue, long black hair, and dark, deep,
lustrous eyes opening again with the lustrous eyes Jesus Christ. Yeah,
(18:29):
opening like a window to the faggot flames which kindled
with love or hate. That's not what fag I meant
at the time. I know, I know, I heard opening
and I'm like, oh no, that's sexual shone brightly within.
Mexico was her country, her blood Spanish diluted with the
Aboriginal American. Her name was Juanita. It was not Quanita.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
That was her name.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Her name was not Quanita. So confident but so wrong.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
They really love this olive skin description and the lustrous eyes.
I am sorry, I I feel like I'm being objectified
right now.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
In reality we are, no, but we are. And there's
a lot to get from both of these quotes that
is not explicitly said, but it's so there right Like,
she was so beautiful. It was not the man she
stabbed to death, his fault that she stabbed him. He
felt the need to come onto her because your eyes
(19:23):
are so lustrous. She was giving him lust eyes. She
wanted it, she was asking for it. Yeah, and she's
just that beautiful. It's her fault for being that beautiful
and Mexican and olive skin disgusting and she should have
let him do what he wanted to do. Oh and
her anger, which can't be helped because she's Mexican, is
the reason she stabbed him, her only flaw being angry
(19:46):
being a spicy latina. Yep, I know we already mentioned it,
but I wrote in my notes, Okay, and if this
is not the literal spicy Latina trope coming into play
in real life with terrible outcomes from the eighteen fucking
hundreds to now when we're still being subjected to the
spicy latina stereo time, and I hate it. I just
can't stand I can't stand it. No me either, My
(20:08):
Latina wife, like, shut the fuck up, shut the fuck up,
shut up, just shut up up. We need to stop.
We kept doing, y'all. We have been watching the weekend
TikTok videos of his acting all day. But no, it
really is disgusting. And yeah, every time it's like my
Latina wife, oh oh, in my house. My Ltina wife
(20:28):
beats me, and it's like, shut up. Joints are crazy.
Oh they're crazy. They're gonna stab you. I'm sick of it.
Don't install her. First of all, I'm the most chill person. Okay, no, no,
but for real, I'm not like other girls. Huh. I'm
not like other Latinas. No. But like, I'm tired of
this fucking trope. I'm so tired of it. It's harmful.
(20:50):
It is it is, and you know what, sorry to
go off on a little. No, I love it here.
But that's another thing that pissed me off so much
when that annoying US guy on TikTok was talking about
that movie from Dust to Dawn when Sinners came out,
Because Dust Till Dawn is set in the wild West, right,
and the only Mexican woman in it is san Mahayek
(21:10):
and she's feeling the spicy Latina role when in real
life she would have been lynched. Yeah. True, this is
not a thing to celebrate. You're right. Also, her story
appears in this old book called Love Stories of California.
How is that a love story? It's not?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Absolutely not, my god, she was a victim of the
state in a white mob violence.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And I didn't want to add. A poem that was
written by someone who called themselves minor, and it's titled
the Hanging of the Mexican Woman. It goes to us
long ago a July morn, the stars paled in the
early light. A man lays stark and dead at dawn,
his life ebbed with the shades of night. A woman,
wronged by broader strife, bravely took the avengers part okay.
(21:59):
One swich aimed blow. Her glistening knife plunged deep into
a miner's heart. Men gathered then from near and far,
and left to silence many a mine on many a
far off creek and bar then shaded by the oak
and pine, and rushed to swell the surging throng like
gathering streams in onward flood man thus were wildly borne
(22:21):
along who shrank from shadding human blood. The hot sun
shone above the scene. The river murmured in its bed.
The hills were clothed in summer green, and birds were
fluttering overhead. Friends tried to shield her, all in vain.
They brought her forth with wildest geers. The dye was
cast her blood mustain the annals or anals, and I
(22:43):
want to say it's anals, but I'm not sure the
anals of the pioneers. Okay, I feel like it's pron
It betrayed her as wronged. She was wronged. Yeah, also
as a murdering avenger. But you know what, she was
defending herself. But that's tight. Yeah, yeah, she was. She
was avenging herself. She was. Josepha's lynching is still the
(23:05):
most well known lynching of a woman today. It was
told time and time again. Historical marker is still there,
even if her name was changed. It's also one of
the only ones that was drawn, and that sketch was
reproduced time and time again. You want to see it. Yeah,
we are so behind on Instagram because you can share
this on Instagram. Oh my god, Oh my god, I
(23:25):
forgot we had on Instagram size. You're realist, I mean, okay, wow.
If you are a Patreon listener, you will have seen
that video and the sketch and we will try to
remember to upload it on Instagram. I want to add,
she was absolutely not the only Mexican woman who was
lynched by a mob of white men in San Luis Obispo.
In nineteen fifty three, a Mexican woman who was only
(23:47):
documented as quote, game little vixen end quote what the
fuck does that mean? Oh my god, vixen. I don't
even know and I'm horrified, game little vixen. Yes. Wow.
She was taken from a jail with six Mexican men.
They had all been jailed for theft, and they were
all lynched together. And she again is not even named.
(24:08):
Like that's what they thought of us.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
In eighteen seventy three in Thriida, Colorado, an unknown Mexican
women was lynched after a white couple was murdered by
two Mexican men. A white mob lynched the two Mexican men,
but they were not done. That was not satisfying. They
found the women guilty by association, an accuser of trying
to hide the location of the Mexican men. Wow. And again,
(24:32):
her name never said, never shared, because she didn't matter.
While women only lynchings were rare, they did happen, and
it was common for white mobs just to not care
if they endangered Mexican women while enacting their version of justice.
There were times that a mob would burn down the
house of their target, which was like a Mexican man.
(24:54):
But they didn't care that his wife and kids were
also in the house.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Refuchiur Amidas, his wife Silva yes Merez, and their sixteen
year old daughter, Maria Ines Ramirez were lynched together in
Collin County, Texas. Wow. A sixteen year old? Yes, a
sixteen year old? And do you want another crime? What
They were accused of bewitching the town? What the fuck?
Oh my god? They were burned to death together. This
(25:21):
is me off for being witches supposedly. Wow. Speaking of Texas,
this is where the worst of the mob violence happened
to Mexicans, and it was at the hands of Texas
Rangers most of the time, of course. Yeah, and I'll
be sharing that in the next episode. And yeah, that's
it for this episode. This was a shorter one compared
to the last one. The next one is going to
(25:43):
be very long. Well, I'm looking forward to hearing about
the Texas Rangers. I'm not, but I am at the
same time, I'm already man. Yeah, that was part two
of my series of the history of flyin Chin. Man.
That's a lot, it is. Yeah, my brain is just
(26:04):
rotted with all this right now, I can imagine. Yeah,
if you want to hear us yapping, we do yap
over on Patreon, and I say yapping, but it's a
lot of like yelling, yelling. I'm just kidding, crying. No,
we talk about like things that are going on now
that you know are important. Yeah, current events, current events.
Sometimes we yap about other things, but most of the
(26:24):
time we're either talking about executive orders that are new,
new developments, things like that. So we have a free
book club on Patreon currently. We have already probably discussed
the factors by the time this episode comes out. Yeah,
who knows what our next book will be. Yeah, it
kind of randomly just happened. So it did, it did so,
And we have the link on Patreon for the channel
(26:48):
where we are going to be doing those book club
random book club discussions on whatever random book we do.
We should do Jesus and John Wayne. Should we do
Jesus and John Wayne? I feel like we should. Okay,
we should. All right, that's official, that's our next book
club book. And other than that, I hope that the
story of Josefa Loisa properly pissed you off. I'm kidding
(27:09):
that too, but also that it's one less Estoria known
for you Bye Bye. Astoria's ann is produced by Carmen
and Christina, researched by Carmen and Christina, edited by Christina.
You can find sources for every episode at Estoria's unknown
dot com and in our show notes. Creating the podcast
has a lot of work, so if you want to
help us out financially, you can do so by supporting
(27:31):
us on Patreon at Patreon dot com. Slash studio as
an own podcast
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