The Shady History of Nestle in Latin America Part Two

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi everyone.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
This is Carmen and Christina and this is Estoia's Unknown,
a podcast where we talk about Latin America. Sometimes it's
horrible and deals with heavy topics like racism, corruption, and genocide.
But more than that, it's also about resistance, power and community.
What if I said that like Sidney Sunni and Genozie Esig. Oh, No,

(00:32):
parents pasted on their jeans.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
That's the craziest thing I heard.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Not even what was that? Like how she said it
is what I'm foxing. Yeah, both were insane, parents passed
on their chains. Okay on, Yes, today is all about
corruption because we're continuing with Neslie. This is part two
of that and it's a lot so yeah, this is
a little less story like and a little more like
Neslie did this than Neslie did this and this FYI

(01:01):
and it's all terrible of course, so yeah, let's just
jip into it. Oh well, before we jump into it,
I did want to say again part one we just
summed up, like Nestli, how they got to where they
were and then the first infant formula scandal that was
supposedly change things and the way Nesli was doing it
and they're like better now, but really they're not, and

(01:21):
that's what we're talking about today, and along with the
other things that make them terrible, like modern slavery and
keeping certain regions poor in Mexico. So yeah, all right,
let's get into it, Okay. So a study by John
Hopkins that began in twenty sixteen in Peru found that

(01:44):
despite not being legally allowed because of the changes from
the formula scandal that we talked about in part one,
Nesley has continued to do the same things, basically promote
their products to low income areas, but in places that
they're not the safest to be used. Because again, this
isn't about breastfeeding is better than formula. This is about

(02:08):
in some cases, formula just simply cannot be used. Right.
So in the Lima suburb of Villa, and it was
discovered that doctors were encouraging mothers to stop breastfeeding and
they gave them free formula samples. That's crazy to be
stopping them from breastfeeding, like they and they were already

(02:29):
doing it, Yeah, like successfully, might I add I understand
like if someone is having trouble doing it and they're like, oh,
just to formula instead, But like, of course, that's wild.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
I don't know. No, I agree.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
The mothers that were targeted by these doctors, that were
encouraged by these doctors to stop breastfeeding, were ten times
more likely to give up on breastfeeding because like the
doctor's telling you to do it, Like why not? You know,
you're supposed to trust them emphasisn't supposed to?

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Nestli of course deny doing this dating quote and peru.
Nesli fully compliance with the provisions of local legislation, which
allows sharing evidence based scientific information includes exclusively with healthcare professionals,
including lending support to their continuing medical implication. We do
not distribute samples of products intended for babies between zero

(03:21):
to twenty four months, either to healthcare professionals or to
mothers end quote. Oh wow, use yeah, they straight up to.
The study found that these doctors were given samples and
brochures by Nesley to hand out to these mothers. Don't
you think that no supplement medical companies or this kind

(03:44):
of thing, they shouldn't be allowed to sell their products to.
I don't know, I mean, I guess they should. They
have to be stocked at hospitals just in case, but
there should be no salesperson there, like even in medicine
like that whole pharmacycles is the same theme.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Like part of the.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Opioid epidemic was also very similar, very shady practices. And
that's like, that's a whole other topic that can be
its own like book, like and actually there has been
a book.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah didn't you read a book about it?

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Or no, I did, but yeah, but Neslie was doing
exactly this. They were even offering doctors incentives to give
these samples to mothers. That shouldn't be allowed. No, it
shouldn't at all. These incentives included free conferences and trips,
I mean, the same shit as the pharmaceutical reps and

(04:40):
whatever like. It should not be allowed.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
No, no.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
This study included two hundred and fourteen mothers from this
region from twenty sixteen to twenty seventeen, so one year,
these mothers were given vouchers for more formula and they
were told that formula was necessary for the child's development
and to stop inconsolable crime.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
So if someone is telling you, as a as a
new mom or just a mom in general of a newborn,
that this is going to stop your baby's crying, of course.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
You're going to do it. It's such a vulnerable time.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
And that's also why, uh, there's like a pipeline you know,
from anti vacs quote crunchy vanilla moms whatever they call them,
granola not vanilla granola, sorry, yeah, granola, crunchy vanilla mom
stereotype into the right wing because then it leads you

(05:39):
to eugenics. It leads you to think that you can
you know, by choosing the best products, the most natural
quote natural products. But yeah, it leads you to these
dangerous beliefs, and it's a slip, very slow. Yeah, I mean,
and just like this as an example of a company
I guess being eugenics because it led to the deaths

(06:02):
of brown babies, imparished you know, families and their children
at the least make them more sick, right, which does
lead to the death right because the vouchers were given
for a little bit, but then they're not given and
then what are these what are they supposed to do
when the vouchers are gone except keep buying formula that
they can't afford, and then they can't feed their babies

(06:25):
because they can no longer breastfeed even though they were
doing it.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Like that's so insidious.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah. Yeah, it's literally the same thing that they were
doing back during the killing baby scandal.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, formula scandal.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
But and so this was you said around twenty sixteen, right,
or at least twenty sixteen to twenty seventeen that the
study was done in this suburb of Peru. And there's
no number on if deaths occurred. Oh, I see, but
the next step, if nothing is done, it would have

(06:59):
led to that. Yeah, yes, like it did in the past. Yes, yes.
And Jessica Rothstein from the Bloomberg School of Public Health
International Department and one of the lead researchers for the study.
So the following about this quot. As markets in wealthy
countries have begun to stagnate, the marketing a formula in
poor countries is becoming more aggressive. It's particularly troubling that

(07:22):
the formula companies are pushing the products and communities that
lack the funds to pay for them. We can say
with the high degree of confidence that the marketing to
providers who serve via TV is gener realizable to other
healthcare settings and Peru and probably to other developing countries. Basically,
if they're doing it here, they're doing it in other
places wherever they can get away with it, and like, yeah,

(07:45):
maybe death hasn't happened infant deaths, but if it's not stopping,
it will happen. And of course this isn't all honestley
as the doctors are willing to receive incentives too. There
has been a push for improving laws to prevent this
type of stuff in Puru that's still ongoing. It's not
resolved yet. There's still like like people like the percent

(08:07):
I just mentioned her quo are trying to work to
stop this. But again that's not all that's we're gonna
keep going with this with Neslei and their formula scandals,
it doesn't too. There was a study done that analyzed

(08:27):
over seventy Nestley baby milk products in forty different countries,
and I found that Nesli was not following its own
nutritional advice because they were adding sucross, a type of sugar,
to formulas, and they were marketing their formula as free
of sucross and good for babies, good health. Those are

(08:48):
other words, good babies, good health. And they were doing
this in some places, not all, adding the suc gross
to formula. And these were of course places like Brazil,
like you know, like thirtable, like cheaper to make or
why you know, I don't know. I don't know, I
really I tried to find why they were doing this,
and it's I don't know. They were just in adding

(09:12):
sugar and then lying about the sugar content. Did a
Sunday don't say that anymore because of Chichetti too on,
So I was just gonna take CHICHERI ruined that for us. Yeah,
just like I can't say stop. They were also marketing
their formulas as being healthier because it was free from
vanilla flavoring, but it was not and had vanilla flavoring it.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
Like this is just a little pointless thing, right.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
And fifty years after the shady infant formula practices of
the nineteen seventies were brought to light, a different organization
called the Public Eye, who basically just works in calling
out Nesli and doing like studies to like reveal the
truth behind Neslie.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
I want to work there.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
They're doing the Lord's work. They were a big source
for this. I shot them out a little bit later
again because again huge source, so Public Eye a non
profit organization. They revealed that Nesli is still up to
no good. Fifty years after their scandal, Right, Nesli was
discovered to be adding more. This is aside from the

(10:16):
already formula things I mentioned in but in twenty sixteen
this is another situ, another issue or whatever wrongdoing. So yes,
another yeah, Nesli was discovered to add more sugar to
their baby products in the global South than in the
Western market, i e. Europe and the US so Sere,
Lac and Niedo, which are huge in Latin America, Africa, Asia,

(10:40):
they have more sugar there. They don't have more sugar
everywhere else. In the Philippines it contains seven point three
grams of additional sugar proportion.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
It's kind of a lot. Yes.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
In Panama it has five point three grams more proportion,
Nicaragua four point seven grams proportion is additional sugar, Mexico
one point eight grams. And meanwhile, in Europe there is
no added sugar content. I don't understand why, right, it
doesn't make any sense. And to critics of Nestli, it

(11:16):
seems that the only reason this is being done is
to hook brown and black babies to sugar. Okay, that's
what my thinking was too, But I'm like, why so
that they are used to the sugar it taste and
they keep buying their products because that's not afriget. Nesli
also has chocolate, a bunch of candy, ch chocolate milk.

(11:39):
Gonna say choko mean yeah, they have the chiko menia,
they have the chocolate milk nest quick right.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
But that's the reason that critics of Nesli think that
it's being done to get that palette that makes sense
hooked early it done. Some reminds me of the Coca
Cola when they introduce the their soda to the indigenous
communities in Mexico.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
Susama d Amidez, Associate Professor of Public health Communication at
the University of California, stated, quote, there's no possible or
nutritional reason that sugar needs to be added to food
for babies and young children. Adding sugar and foods for
babies and young children contribute to their poor health as
they develop, including dental cavities and obesity, both of which
are incredibly difficult to change once they have set in.

(12:27):
More insidiously, sugar is highly addictive, so consuming foods with
added sugars in early childhood trains kids palets to prefer
sweetened foods. This leads to a lifelong prefence for such foods,
exacerbating the negative health impacts of such foods. It's clear
why the industry would want to do this, as the
addictive quality of sugar and the development of sweet preferring

(12:51):
palettes insures they have customers for life.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Life.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
They're literally hooking babies on sugar end quote.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Interesting. I have heard some conflicting things about sugar actually
being addictive or not. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
I don't know like the science, I guess, like the
most up to date science. I know it's like conflicting
whether it's actually addictive or not. But I mean, why
have other than you know, corporate greed. There is no
need for this extra like added sugar, especially young Like
we're talking like new more young babies who don't even
need food, right, And there's a certain age I think

(13:30):
to win under where like extra sugar is like not
recommended by a lot of health organizations, and it does
fuck kids teeth up for life, like lifelong.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
He does.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
All those silver tooth kids that were venices, that's why.
And if you guess they were still Neslie was still
using shady marketing practices to push clac Ano.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
You would be right.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
These products are promoted in low and middle income country
as not only healthy, but the key to supporting young
children's development. Does that not sound familiar? That's like exactly
what they've been doing. On top of that, they use
influencers and celebrities from these markets to promote Nilo and
cere Lac and Guatemala. They partner with Billy Savedra known
as Billy the Diamond, a Regaton artist. I don't know

(14:18):
who he is, but neither apparently he's a Regaton artist.
He has like half a million followers on Instagram. He
was promoting a real he filmed with his daughter. In
the video, she's just like twirling down the stairs or something.
And the caption is miran Ala Sarai Perro gra Ideo
Istabian Look, Mason Nios CenTra America, son Loosque Mantien and

(14:44):
Flertesusoa Proos That was a caption to this. Nons Like
this video doesn't even like you would think she'd be
like drinking the drink, like yeah, it's like acting like
it's milk. Yeah yeah, and yeah, like I said, he
has half a million followers all in that same market

(15:07):
like Guatemala, and like, I know that's the way the
world has gone where influencers are used to market because
it's like a successful way to market things. And of
course these influencers are parents too, and so when they
are pushing these products, it's regarded as trustworthy, especially in
like communities like Latin America, where I don't want to say,

(15:30):
they've like like it's easier for like, I mean, how
many times have we gotten a message from our mom saying, hey,
does this work? And it's like some random thing that
someone mentioned. Yeah, influencers on alive exactly, they know these
markets are lucrative and there are also a line about
the sugar content and the things that are selling into
these markets. But it's similar here like parenting influencers or

(15:52):
mom bommy influencers, And like the products that they push,
they're not always safe, Like I'm thinking of like products
that have been recalled and then people still use them,
and you know, no one, not a lot of people
keep up to date with recalls, especially now that certain
organizations that do recall like safety product safety kind of

(16:14):
stuff are being like disbanded and defunded. Now there's even
less information about that out there then. Yeah, so it's
like similar where they're like it's an issue. Yeah, and
it's an issue. It's a larger issue about exploding children.
But I guess we won't go there because we're talking
about Nestlie one hundred percent one hundred percent you know,
you know we agree on that. Yeah, Currently, Serre lac

(16:37):
Anito makes these products make Nestli sol much money two
point five billion like a year at least, if not
more now because this figures from like twenty twenty two.
And yeah, these are branded as helping children live healthier lives.
They have extra vitamins, minerals and other micronutrients and also
an insane amount of sugar, like and of course like

(17:00):
need those other things. And I'm not one to demonize sugar.
It has room in our lives. For me, it's not
something I'm like, no sugar ever, but after a certain age,
because that's what my doctor said, right. And again, this
is why these practices of Nesli are so shady, because
they're pushing these products and it's like the issue here

(17:22):
is why are they adding way more sugar in the
global South than in Europe. That doesn't make sense. Nestley
claims it's because these ingredients in these markets are different
and that's where they're made.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
That doesn't make sense.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
That doesn't make sense to me at all, because, yeah,
these products have zero added sugar in Germany, Switzerland, the UK,
even in the US it has way less than like
the Philippines. But yeah, it's a double standard. Like it
may seem not like a big deal maybe to some people,
but many experts like Karen Hoffman, a pediatrician and the

(17:58):
professor of public health at the University of wit Witwater
Sprand in Johannesburg. I hope I said that, right, I
how to say it? I probably did it somewhere in Johannesburg. Anyway,
she said, quote it's a form of colonization.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
End quote. Oh oh oh, and you know what.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
The professional educate lady said it. So Also the WHO,
the World Health Organization shares similar views about how before
a certain first they're a little extreme or they don't
recommend like any sugar. You're like okay, usually like okay,
like she was fine, yeah, but before a certain age,
I think they say like at least at the very
at least three and under like no sugar, at least

(18:41):
no added sugar and obviously like natural sugar like fruits,
no one's sugar. Yeah, these are added sugars, which is
a whole different thing. This study stresses the need for
urgent action to reshape the food environment for children, said oh,
the director of the WHO department, doctor Francesco Branca, eliminating
They still him eliminated added sugars from food products for

(19:04):
young children would be an important way to implement early prevention,
early prevention of Obi city. And like, my thing with
kids is like cavities, because that shit fucks you up
for life. And yeah that WHO has also called for
a ban on added sugars and sweeteners for products for
babies and children under the age of three. The investigation

(19:25):
by Public I also which was now surprised to me,
found that Nesley uses aggressive marketing to promote needo and
set and LAC in the Global South, which was prohibited
in nineteen eighty one after the whole infant formula in
the thirty killing situation. Yes, this practice was banned. This
aggressive marketing of infant formula was banned, but they're still

(19:48):
doing it because this ban, it was supposed to ban
all promotion of infant formula in order to protect breastfeeding
in these areas, where again formula is not the best
choice because of the water not being accessible. But the
ban also applied to formulas for older babies and kids,

(20:09):
which includes needle and Sedlak because it's not a strait
up of formula, it's a supplement. But that ban includes
those two products, and they're still aggressively marketing these products
like again using influencers. Also, they have videos like reels
and stuff short form videos where they have a person
talking about these products with a white coin on, and

(20:30):
that gives a percession again the perception of a doctor,
just like their milk made situation where they would have
them wear nurse such like they're doing the same thing,
but now like a video by internet instead of the hospitals.
And the person on video might not even be a
full like pediatrician, a nutritionists not an actor, but a nutritionist.

(20:52):
But sometimes nutritionists certifications are not full schooling. So how
do we know they're not actors? Oh, they're also they
could be.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
We don't know, I feel like they're actors. They could be.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
You're right, Yeah, most of the time, they're definitely not pediatricians.
But yeah, they're giving they're recording this video with the
white coat on to again not perceived but give off
like authority.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
And they're talking about the benefits of these products obviously,
and again a white coat conveys that this is the
opinion of someone, the opinion of this person.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Who an expert. Yeah, yes, thank you. Wow.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
And again that's against who guidelines, right, Okay, And that's
an overview of how they're still basically doing the infants
in formula currently to this day in Latin America. Like
they never stopped, they just changed it a little bit, yes,
to make it modern. Yeah, on the internet modern, Yeah,
using influencers.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
And like I said in the beginning of part one,
this does not stop at Formula. Coca Cola is under Nesli.
We have two episodes on Coca Cola being corrupt in
Latin America. You know, you discussed the use of paramilitary
forces to kill union leaders in Colombia, Gatemala. I did
the one about Mexico and their shady marketing practices there

(22:10):
and how they steal water. And that's still Nestli because
Coca Cola falls under NESTLEI. Right, Nestle is the big
umbrella company. Yes, yes, but yeah, it doesn't end there.
So now Mexico and coffee and Nesli and how Neslie's

(22:34):
destroyed God to forgot that they have coffee. Also they
have everything, They have their grubby little hands and everything.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
First, let's talk about the region a little bit, because
I know we had a coffee episode, but I talked
about Central America.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, But in Mexico, coffee is grown in Chiapas, and
while Chiapas is the largest producer of coffee in all
of Mexico, it's also one of the poorest areas. There
are around one hundred and eighty thousand coffee farmers, which
produce forty percent of the coffee in all of Mexico.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yes, And internationally, Mexico is the eighth largest producer of coffee.
And the region of Soko Nusco in southern Chiapas was
known for its high quality Arabica coffee and this region
has the ideal climate and soil conditions for Arabica coffee.
And Arabica is also great for the biodiversity of any

(23:34):
region because it's more organic. The plants last fifty years
and they provide so much shade. But this is where
Nesli comes in and destroys that. So Nesle's Nest Cafe,
the instant coffee is the most popular coffee in this market,
like Latin America. I'm sure, I don't know how popular.

(23:56):
It's probably pretty popular here in the US too, because
of I don't know how many people.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
I don't drink it.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
This cafe is an instant coffee that aurm mused, Bay right, yes, yeah,
and that's something our grandma has. I'm telling you it's
it's highly popular. Side note, it's also called El cafre
or the.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Poor man's coffee.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Hmmm.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
So this Nest Cafe instant coffee is made with Robusta coffee,
not Arabica coffee. So Nestle lobby to the Mexican government
to promote the cultivation of coffee of the coffee they
need Robusta and this coffee thrives better without shade, oh
I see. And so they had to destroy a lot

(24:37):
of farms that had the Arabica shady trees to make
the Robusta coffee. So NESTLEI launched their Nest Cafe plan
in twenty ten and Mexico, and thanks to that program,
Mexico is Nestle's third biggest coffee supplier.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Damn. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
So through this plan, Nesli promised to invest two hundred
million Swiss francs within ten years, which would quote create
value across the coffee supply chain from farmers to consumers
to us and so supposedly the farmers were also going
to get like a cut of the profit more money.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
So they went to local farmers, most of which are
small farms. That's why there's so many different coffee farmers.
They're just a bunch of little farms. Even the biggest
farms are fifteen Oh my god, what I didn't write
this word down. You know, when it's acres, but there's
like an age in front of it, like hectors or hectory.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
I don't know how to pronounce it.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, that's what it is, all right. Moving on, So,
most of them had Arabica coffee, and so with the
nestcafet planned, they were going to go from Arabica to
robust the coffee to make the next cafe coffee that
NESTLEI needs. And so they were going to do a
one year training school for these farmers. In the school,

(25:53):
they learned business things management had to improve their harvest.
Nestley Agronomius would also come into their farms and give
advice on converting or how to improve the farm. Nesley
gave these farmers robustus seedlings to get them started, and
they did this for three years where there was this
school going. They would come and look these farms. These

(26:14):
farmers had to convert their farms to comply with four
Sea requirements.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Do you know what that is? Okay?

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Well, four C is an independent stakeholder and this is
straight from the four Sea page. For C is an
independent stakeholder driven internationally recognized sustainability standard for the entire
coffee and cocoa sector, aiming at anchoring sustainability and coffee
and cocoa supply chains. Independent third party on its insure
compliance with sustainability criteria for coffee and cocoa production and

(26:43):
processing from the economic, social, and environmental dimensions to establish
credible and traceable sustainable coffee and.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Cocoa supply chains.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
Basically like it's supposed to make coffee cultivation more ethical
in all ways as the whole Because wow, that was long,
I'm not reading all that anyway. Nesli promised these farmers
that they participated in their Nescafe School did the conversion
to comply with four C. Followed Neslei teachings that these

(27:11):
farmers were double or triple their income, and this made
sense to farmers. This is already a low income area, right,
and they're being sold these promises that sound very appealing.
So yeah, I don't at all blame them for trying
to do this.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, and so.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
Robusta yields more products than Arabica, and so they were like, yeah,
it's going to be there's more, the yields are going
to be bigger, so you're going to get more money.
Of course, the program sounded fantastic if Nesli had kept
their promise. Of course they didn't. Yeah, no surprise. There
After three years, their visits and advice to local farmers

(27:55):
came to an abrupt and by this point two hundred
farmers in this region had done the conversion to four
CE and robust to coffee and participated in Nescafez or
in Nesle's Nescafez School program, which again Nesli promised they
would profit if they did this, and this costs a
lot of money to do these conversions, and of course

(28:16):
it's like again, no surprise, Nesli didn't keep their end
of the deal. They got their double yield of robust
to coffee, but they didn't pay these farmers anywhere near
a living wage for their work. Nesli pays twenty six
pesos per kilo or one thirty nine US dollars per kilo.
That's barely enough to cover production costs, let alone pay
farm workers. Eduardloca Marena, who owns one of the larger

(28:40):
farms in the area, which again is not a big
farm compared to these big like farms we have here
in the US, like, these are very small farms. A
lot of them aren't even like they don't have farm workers.
It's like the family doing it all. So eduardoca Marena
was a graduate of the first generation of the Nescafez
school and production costs him thirty pestls perkillo. So Nesli

(29:02):
again pays twenty six bessels per kilo, and for him
to do this it costs him more. He was losing money, yes, exactly.
One of the courses he took at the school was
called quote joint Value Creation in Coffee Company in the
coffee company, and in it, Nesli promised to give them
a living wage. And to pay more for these yields

(29:23):
that would double. But Eduardo on his fellow castmates and
the rest of the two hundred coffee farmers haven't seen
any of that said profit. Wow. Elmer Morales, a second
generation nes Cafe plan farmer, has a similar story, but
it's worse because, on top of being paid so little
for the coffee by Nescafe, nest Cafe also put his

(29:45):
picture and his mom's picture on the instant coffee. Really
and the picture? Yes, and the picture is accompanied by
a statement that says drinking this coffee is helping farmers
in Chiapas live a better life.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
When it's not. No, they're being underpaid severely.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yes, the audacity to use their pictures too, Yeah, bullshit.
In January twenty twenty four, Eduardo Elmer and other farmers
got together. They spoke about their experiences with Neslie to
the media. They also wrote a letter of protest, and
in it they stated that the price of twenty six
pistols is not enough and they demanded thirty five vessels

(30:24):
per kilo, which is not a lot. It's not an
extravagant ask like it cost them thirty pessels to produce
this coffee for Nesli. Yeah, a living wage would have
been fifty pessels per kilo, but they're not asking for that.
They were asking for thirty five a little bit more.
When Nesli responded to the protest letter, they said that

(30:46):
they were not responsible for the low pay and that
the farmers needed to talk to the local intermediary companies.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
This is a.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Bullshit that the fucking big conglomerate bullshit fucking corporations use
to get away with their bullshits, the same fucking shit
that Coca Cola did, because they were like, oh, we're
not responsible for the violence against the union.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Organizers. It was our third.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Party whatever the fun, Yes, exactly, Like no, you you're
responsible for the behavior or the people that are partnering
with you because you're also pressuring them to make money.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, and you're also to blame, Like.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
You can't just absolve yourself of everything, which these fucking
companies do and what the United States allows. Yes, so yeah,
Nestli told them it was the innimated intermediary companies who
were in charge of this bullshit. Yeah, So the farmers
did meet with these intermediary companies on February fifth, four

(31:51):
The farmers expressive frustrations to the head of CASEMX, one
of the intermediary companies, and so here Elmer said, quote
at the nescafes, they taught us to double production, then
they dropped us. They taught its values, principles and ethics.
What happened to those values, principles and ethics? Where are they?
Capitalism has none? No, it doesn't No. The head of

(32:14):
SMX listened to all the farmers with patients, and then
at the end he told them what they all suspected.
He didn't have control over the prices they were set
by Nestli.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Of course they are.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yes, yes, So then the farmers all met again after this,
at this regular meeting that they have every two or
three bunds, they expressed the same frustrations the low prices
for their coffee. And here one of the other farmers,
seventy seven year old Oktaviano Morale Salas, stated that it's
no longer possible to make a living from coffee one

(32:45):
because of these low prices, but also they can't afford
to pay their farm workers, so there would be farm
workers are all going to the USA. In their municipality alone,
one hundred and eighty people had already migrated to the US,
so goo will toll our soil. Now we're up to
our next in it. Nestlei siphons all the money while
we live in poverty. Buck Nestlie, no one hundred percent

(33:09):
new sticker. All the homies say, Nestlie, oh wait, we
said that already last episode.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yeah. God.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
So, on top of the already low price that they
give these farmers for the Robusta coffee, sometimes some of
these intermediary companies low bottom even more, citing that it's
low quality. It's not even worth the low price. Nestli
is pain but they do this randomly. The coffee is fine,
and they're like, nope, it's low quality, just so that
they can take more of the cut themselves too, like

(33:39):
they're the issue too. But overall still it's Nestlei. The
bit is the biggest issue.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
And in theory, these farmers could sell to someone else,
but because they made the switch from Robusta or from
Arabica to Robusta, Nesti is the only one who buys
Robusta because they needed for the instant coffee. No one
else buys it in this area, and so they're like
trapped by Nestle and this was intentional. It reminds me
of Monsanto too, one hundred percent with their stupid seeds

(34:06):
and how now, yeah, it's the same story. There's a
reason Mexico kicked Monsanto out, like well, the corns and
they're trying to I know, I know, one.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Of their biggest markets. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
There's also a really good documentary called CoA that focuses
on the horrible working life of these coffee workers and
unfortunately also full of child labor, which I didn't focus
too much on, but that documentary you should, you should
check it out. What is the documentary from two dozen?

(34:41):
Oh I didn't write down the year. It's not that
old though, it's pretty recent. So these farmers protested blocking
the road to where the intermediary companies are located. They
held science that read empresas in Ettica and aias another
sign that said presio housto, presio housto, like they're demanding
a fair price, yes, and they deserve it. And this

(35:02):
protest they also burned nescafe coffee sacks and robust us savelings.
And you know, I love when things are being burned
at a protest. Yes, yes, and at first the protests
seemed to get things moving. A local government representative said
that they were meet with Neslie Mexico. But when the
meeting came, Nesli didn't show up and it was all

(35:23):
like a joke to Nesli basically, at least that's what
it felt like to the farmers and the local government
was trying to do something.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
What else would it.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Feel like if they don't show up? Yeah, and instead
they sent like an email response to the demands and
to the price demands, and it was like a simple no,
they're not going to meet these demands. And they released
the following statement. Coffee farmers should earn a sufficient income
to maintain a decent standardive living for them and their families. However,

(35:52):
in a coffee market contention on supply and demand, there
are no easy solutions to ensure that this is achieved.
We do not have a price minimum guarantee, but we
do offer the most competitive prices in an open marketplace.
Buck your open marketplace. You don't bitch, they're the only marketplace. Okay,
you're talking about also supplying demand. You are the market,

(36:13):
You are the supply and demand. It's just a bunch
of bullshit. To try to wash your hands off of
it when they are responsible and they should be paying
fair wages. But no, everything is about the the money
and the final dollar you make or whatever and paying
your fucking piece of shit CEOs and okay, so they're mean,

(36:35):
like the market. If the market is bad, we then
we had to pay less. But the market has been
growing for this the like, yeah, it's not true, but
I fucking hate them, all right, Nestlie, if I see you,
it's on site, all of you on site, on site, Okay.
And of course if you look at Nesli's website today,
they have statements like Nestlie and is strongly committed to

(36:57):
the responsible and sustainable sources of coffee and Mexico. I
believe that, No, don't believe them, and that they have
had a positive impact on the Mexican coffee and the
development of Mexican growing coffee growing communities. You have destroyed
the coffee community in Chiampas, you dumb bitches. Yeah, it
reminds you that meme where people at right over it.

(37:19):
It's like this lady smoking from American Horstory and she's like,
you dumb bitch, there is no so here. It's like
you dumb bitch. There is no more coffee growing communities
in Mexico because you're destroying them.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah, I should make that meme. Yeah you should again.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Meanwhile, over so there staming again is that they're making
the communities better. Right. Meanwhile, over half the coffee farmers
live in property and have had to give up their forms. Yeah,
and that's again just a very brief bit on coffee,
Nesli and Mexico.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
But I also have to talk about Brazil.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
So Public Eye has been an amazing source for these episodiodes,
and that's where I'm getting all this from.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
There.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Again, they work in like just showing trying to show
how corrub Nesli is. And so they released this in
June twenty twenty five titled Brazilian workers Enslaved by Nesli's
Coffee supplies. When in twenty twenty five, Yeah, June twenty
twenty five is when this case months, Yes, last month
at the time of recording. And if you remember from

(38:23):
the Coffee episode, which was like almost three years ago,
it's our second episode.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
I want to say, or was it the first the
first episode?

Speaker 1 (38:29):
I think it might be the it might be the first.
I mentioned about coffee workers being enslaved, but by Starbucks.
But Neslie does it too, of course, I'm sure they
all do it. Oh yeah, Nesli promises to source ethical
coffee and that they have zero tolerance for modern slavery,
and like it's all over their statements on this kind
of stuff. But this investigation by Public Eye and Reporter

(38:50):
Brazil proves that that's not the case. So fifty year
old Hunan digit Dos Santos was hired as a seasonal
worker in April twenty twenty three along with his friend
Jose at the Misson de Hesu's Lima. And they're both
from a very low income area of Brazil, at Rakahu
Sehipe in the northeast region of Brazil. And every year

(39:11):
thousands of people from this region head to the south
part of Brazil for coffee, for seasonal coffee work, because
that's where it all is. And so these locations where
these farms are not usually directly owned by Nesle, right,
it's like the intermediary companies in Mexico who are employed
or partnered with NESLI, And so that's where these men,

(39:35):
these two men were, and they were promised a wage
of one hundred and twenty re ice. I don't know
how you say the money in Brazil rey ices. Yeah,
per day, which is like twenty one forty three US dollars.
And so they got on a bus traveled again, that's
twenty one basically twenty one dollars a day. Yeah, they
got on a bus and they traveled for two and

(39:56):
a half days with their recruiter, and they arrived at
the Matta Vere the farm in the state of Espiritu Santo,
which both of those names are just so ominous. Expect
nothing good to happen there. No, No, I'm sure they
sell on there. So I don't know, Actually, I don't know.
I don't think Sona. This is a very very remote area.

(40:17):
Basically it's only this village and then coffee plantations and
forests and that's it. So the first two days of
these men getting there seemed great. They drank, they drink,
they celebrated, all on the plantation's dime. Uh, they're love
bombing them, yes, oh my god. On the third day
everything went downhill. They were moved to a new part

(40:39):
of the plantation and had to carry their own things
and walk to this area. But first they worked a
full day and I don't think I need to say,
but this is intense mindo labor.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
So after this intense mino labor, they walked fifty sorry,
they walked twice fifty minutes two times.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Damn.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
They did a fifty.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Minute walk two times to carry all of their things
to their new sleeping area, which included carrying mattresses for
fifty minutes.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
And they were done very very late into the night.
And they found that this new living area had like
rotten wooden floors and water stains all over the walls.
They were told that this was temporary and that they
would receive new beds, but neither of these things happened.
They never moved buildings, they never received beds, and the
conditions of this new living area were inhumane. There were

(41:31):
no doors to provide privacy. There was no sinks or showers,
just two hoses which only had cold water. What the fuck.
There was no tables or chairs, so workers had to
eat sitting on the floor or on their mattresses. There
was rats everywhere, There was constant power cuts, and the
toilets almost never worked.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
Wow. And workers had to get up at three.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
Thirty in the morning. They were prepared lunch after a
breakfast provided by the plantation, and this breakfast was a
cup of coffee and a lump of dough made with
made of wheat flour and water. A lump of dough,
a lump of dough made of wheat flour and water,
so like a tortilla, but uncooked not uncooked yeah, and
uncooked dotia basically raw dough.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
What the yeack and coffee.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
The worst than the coffee episode where you talked about
how they would give them like a little bit of beans.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
At least they would get peas.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Then they would take the bus to the plantation at
four thirty. They would finish forty to thirty in the morning,
so they were up at three third in the morning.
They got to the plantation at four thirty in the morning.
They finished work at five pm and then they would
have to walk back which to fire forty five minutes. Oh.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
They get there at four.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Thirty am and they were five am yeah, wow, And
then they had to walk back to their living quarters.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
They didn't bust them back. What the the.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Workers were not given the wage that was instead they
were giving what would be the equivalent to eight dollars
in ninety three cents a day. Oh my god, for
a full day. They were supposed to be getting twenty
something dollars.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
The farm owner then sold what these men harvested for
forty times the price he paid them.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
We're shaking our heads. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
On top of this extremely low pay, everything was deducted
from the workers pay, boots, protective clothing, the basket they
used to put coffee beans in.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
And their water bottle. Wow.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Yeah, this is literally like what the company towns used
to do. This is like also the cost of their
bus ride was deducted. Wow, which was sixty two US dollars.
Mind you, they're getting paid eight dollars in ninety three cents,
but just to keep them there. Yeah, it's literally it's
human trafficking. Oh, one hundred percent. Some might say maybe

(43:58):
not our listeners, but who knows. But some people might say, well,
it's not Nestli doing this. This is on the farm owners. No,
because there should be some oversight. Yeah, this is a
direct supplier of NESLEI. Like you, if you don't know
how your supplier gets their shit, then you need to
look into it. And if it's fucking shady, then you

(44:19):
need to stop working with them. If you're supposedly you know, ethical, Yeah,
what you claim to be, which you celebrate, right. So yeah,
this farm that was doing all this, it was at
the time that I was doing this. It was involved
in the four set program that Neslie was so proud
to show off. And so again the workers were also

(44:40):
charged for the shitty food that was supplied to them,
the fucking rat.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Oh that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah. On top of that, they were not allowed to
leave the farm. They were closely supervised literally human trafficking, yes,
by both the farm manager and the security guards. The
farm manager constantly threatened them with his gun. When all
of this was too much, Dos Santos and others tried
to plan their escape. They used WhatsApp to contact the

(45:07):
bus driver to pick them up, but the farm owner
discovered this and sent them all the following message quote
no one is leaving the farm until their debts are
paid off. If if anyone tries, I'll have the entrance
to the village closed off end quote. Because also the
plantation owners happened to also like be powerful in the village,
and they could they could literally close.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
They have to be or how would they get away
with this? Exactly?

Speaker 1 (45:31):
Who would indeed, and his friend has said knew they
had to escape, so, risking their own lives, they filmed
and photographed the abuse at the hands of the manager
and the security guards. They contacted the police gave them
this evidence. The police said they would investigate, but Josein
who Dandi, didn't know when. So fourteen days after their
arrival at the farm, my god, they were only there

(45:51):
were four fourteen days.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
They managed to get a man from the village to
drive them to the next main road, which then they
would take a bus back home. So before midnight, they
along with twelve other men, snuck out of the farm
and waited for the van. And they had to sit
basically on top of each other in this van, and
they were super cramped, but they cradle someone just so
that we could all feel like, that's crazy. No, I

(46:16):
would be on top of the van like hold on
to the top. Yeah, yes, hanging on for dear life.
But that would be better than working for this farm.
And they had no idea at the time. But hours
after they escaped, investigators did arrive and they were shocked
at the conditions they found. Wow, So the remaining ten
workers were also freed.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Oh, that's good.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
And then administrative proceedings against the farm owner began. Administrative
proceedings so not even criminal proceedings. No, it was literally
human trafficking. But yeah, wow, the farm owner agreed to
improve the terrible work conditions and to pay the workers
a severance payment that amounted to three days of work

(46:58):
with damages. How about you fourteen fucking days they worked there? No,
seriously a gunpoint. Basically, yes, yes, each worker got around
one thy forty three US dollars. Not enough. Not the
workers escaped bullshit, Only the ten who were there when
investigators arrived. Wow, However they did soon when they ended

(47:20):
up settling for almost the same amount. Still not enough,
still not enough, still not enough. And that person should
not be allowed to operate anything where they would be
employing others at all. Ever one hundred percent. Yeah, yeah,
And this is just one farm that is a direct
supplier of Nesli. But this is far too common in Brazil.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
In twenty twenty two, threas I Maas and prima Veda
farms were found to have similar working conditions in both
Nesli suppliers. Direct supplier Nestlie, you have a problem with
your suppliers one hundred percent. In twenty twenty three, another
Nesti supplier, Vista Allegtive Farm, was also enslaving their workers.
Like this is a pattern now, like they should know

(48:01):
by now. Have a quote from Livia Mira Glia Mira Gliau.
That's like hard to say anyway.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Sorry.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
She's an associate professor of labor law at the University
of Minas Gerais in Brazil and specializes in slave labor
and human trafficking. So she stated, quote, the white and
male judiciary systematically denigrates the working class. It's common for
people who lose their luggage on a flight to receive
higher compensation than those who have become victims of slave labor.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
That should not be allowed.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
That is a wild thing to say, well, not to
say it, but to be true, like to be an
accurate statement, Like that's wild. She continues that perpetrators are
hardly ever prosecuted. No farm owner is afraid that he
will have to go to prison for modern slavery. En
a quote of two six hundred and seventy nine employers
who were accused of modern slavery offenses, only one hundred

(48:56):
and twelve of them were convicted.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
It's impunity.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Those numbers come from a study that took place between
twenty and eight and twenty nineteen.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Oh wow, eleven years, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
And most of the one hundred and twelve who were
convicted received the short sentences that they didn't even serve.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
And Nestle.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Just like they did in Mexico, they placed the blame
on the coffee farms, on the suppliers. No, especially when
they're participating your supposedly ethical a program, like what what
qualifies a farm to participate in that? What oversight is there?
The crazy things that they do. Inspect these farms, but
you know when they expect inspect them before their start productions?

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yes, off season? Yes? Stupid on purpose probably, oh one
hundred percent, because then NSI goes to say, what we
do inspection when they weren't producing anything? Well, what the fuck?
How do you? How do you what?

Speaker 1 (49:52):
It's the point at that point, Yeah, how can you
inspect the quality of a worker when they're not working?
Exactly stupid. In Nesli's statement as a reply to this
study that was done by Public Eye, they said that
they once they found out about these practices, they remove

(50:13):
these farms from their four Sea system. But another NeSSI supplier,
NKG Stockler, confirmed to Public Eye that they were not
Neslie was not aware of these practices until March twenty
twenty five. So they're lying. Yeah, they're lying, and they
can lie.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
That doesn't matter. If they're lying, they can get away
with anything.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
And they when report to Brazil and Public Eye said, well,
your supplier told us this, they never replied. And I
want to end with Udandid's words to Public Eye about
all of this. I'd like to say just one thing
to the people in the big multinational corporations, take a
close look at what you are doing. Buying coffee is easy.

(50:54):
The hard part of the job is harvesting it. It's us,
the workers who make sure you get your coffee in
the first place. And you don't appreciate that end quote.
And yes this is the fur eating It really is
because like nothing ever ends. No, like these are the

(51:14):
conditions we talked about in episode one, and those were
like older times.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
I forgot when, but it was like.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
The eighteen hundreds, like before nineteen hundred or no, maybe
late eighteen hundreds, maybe like mid nineteen eighteens.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
I forget.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
I didn't include it in this but in the public
I report and all the again, all the links are
in the show notes. They talked to a different professor,
and this professor said, these conditions of working for farm workers,
especially in coffee, goes back to like the start colonization,
right because even today these coffee farmers are mostly white,

(51:54):
and that, I mean, that's the same thing we talked
about again in that coffee episode, but it applies to
Brazis too, like this is all, this is all it
goes back from even that time period. And yeah, he
it's right, He's right. It's sad too, like yeah, so yeah,
that was that was nestleie. Wow, yeah, thank you everyone

(52:26):
for listening. Fuck Nestlie. We have an announcement.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
We do, we do.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
We are taking a two week break afrough this episode
because I'm moving and Carmen has a trip hard to Yeah. Yeah,
and y'all moving.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
I hate it. I think you underestimated a little bit.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Oh I thought I had more time. Oh yeah, we
were looking. We were looking at places that had like
leasing contracts that started mid August.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Oh, I see then, and.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
We were just not getting them. And then this place
came along. We were the first to apply and so
now our moving day is August first, and so yeah,
I thought I had more time. And you know what
moving is really when you learn you just have too
much shit. Yeah, and I did have too much shit.
So yeah, we're taking a two week break because of that,

(53:20):
and we'll be back in what's no, I can't do that.
We'll be back in after two weeks whatever date that is.
So this comes out on the thirty first, so then
after that it's the seventh and then fourteenth, So we'll
be back on the twenty first. That's what I was
gonna ask, the twenty first, right, that's two weeks. Yeah, yeah,

(53:43):
the twenty first, Yeah, okay, yeah, we'll be back on
the twenty first. I'm hoping to still yap though, if
you can kurmash, so yeah, it's to be over on Patreon.
A reminder that on Patreon we just either yap about
current news topics, which is a lot in the US
because we are being bombarded with terrible, terrible things. Sometimes

(54:05):
we do do more international news and it's like just
a way for us to like digest what's happening and
cry and yell and scream about it together and process it.
But other times we also talk about like influencer drama
on TikTok, like we talked about helps life, yeah, internet culture,

(54:25):
so yeah, sometimes other things. So yeah, that's what we
do over there. If you want to join, and by
joining you also help us support. First, you support us,
but also you help us donate to things we care about,
usually always immigration. Lately we've been doing we had been doing,
but now we're doing donating to the car washers because

(54:48):
and again it's on the show notes, but they are
being targeted supported at mass members in the La County
region since the start of this administration ramping up in June.
So yeah, other than that, we hope that this is
one lass Historia Unknown for you.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Bye bye.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Astoria Unknown is produced by Carmen and Christina, researched by
Carmen and Christina, edited by Christina. You can find sources
for every episode at estorias Unknown dot com and in
our show notes. Creating the podcast has a lot of work,
so if you want to help us out financially, you
can do so by supporting us on Patreon at Patreon
dot com.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
Slash She studied as an own podcast

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The Shady History of Nestle in Latin America Part Two

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