March 4, 2025 • 72 mins
Annie Oakley, the legendary sharpshooter, defied all odds to become one of the most recognized figures in American history. This episode reveals how the young girl from Ohio, burdened by personal tragedy, transformed her life through skill, tenacity, and a refusal to be confined by societal norms. Discover her rise to fame in Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show, where she showcased her extraordinary talent while simultaneously paving the way for future generations of women in shooting sports.
We explore the rivalry that defined her career and her fight to clear her name amidst scandal. Annie's journey is not just about marksmanship; it’s a powerful narrative of women’s empowerment, as she taught countless others the importance of self-defense and independence. Join us for an exciting discussion of her life, her challenges, and her substantial impact on history. Don’t forget to send us your feedback—what historical figure inspires you the most? Subscribe and leave a review to support the continued exploration of stories like hers!
https://centerofthewest.org/explore/buffalo-bill/research/annie-oakley/
https://www.historynet.com/annie-oakley/
https://www.loc.gov/item/00694108/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQSTSNq5dOM
https://annieoakleycenterfoundation.com/faq.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa1H6lEct6o
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Oh, hey there.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Oh, hey there.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome to History, buffoons.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm Bradley.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I'm Kate and we are on location for the first time.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is weird.
My phone, when you said oh heythere, apparently thought it
said oh Siri.
So let's turn that off becausethat's not necessary.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
My best friend is graduating tomorrow in
Louisville, kentucky yeah, fromher doctorate program.
Yeah, and we needed to podcastat the same time, so we figured
let's do it all at once.
Yeah, I'm so, so, so excited tosee her tomorrow.
(01:00):
Yeah, for sure, and she hasbeen on this academic journey
for quite some time.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Well, most academic journeys take a while.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yes, so super proud of her Super proud.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
It's nice that it's coming to an end and she can
utilize what she's done andeverything.
Yeah, she's a very nice person,excited to see her again as
well.
Yeah, yeah, very nice person,excited to see her again as well
.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, yeah, so because we're actually in, very
we're over the borderTechnically, yes, technically in
Indiana.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And just over the river is Louisville.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
That's how Kate apparently likes to say it.
And she's been saying it thatthe whole time.
Okay, so I'm Nebraskan, I sayLouisville, that's how Kate
apparently likes to say it andshe's been saying it that the
whole time.
Okay so.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I'm Nebraskan, I say Louisville.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well, most people say Louisville.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah, but the locals, they say Louisville.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Louisville Mm-hmm, it's like they're having a
stroke while they say it.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, or they got marbles in their mouth.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I mean Louisville.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Tomato, tomato but either way.
So we went to a liquor store tosee what local craft beers they
had.
We did.
And you did pick one, and thenI picked something completely
different.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well, I picked the one for you because I've had it
before.
You've never had it before.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
No, and it's not.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
It's not available near where we live.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
It's not available in Wisconsin.
And you're going to have topronounce it for me, because I
still don't.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
You're going to pronounce it first and then I
will correct you.
Yungling, what is?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
it Yungling, yingling , yingling, there it is.
How is Y-U-E-N-G-L-I-N-G Yuling?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
It's not Yuling, it's Yingling.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yingling.
When I think it's Yingling, itwould be Y-I-N-G, not Y-U-E-N.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
But it's not, it's.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Y-U-E-N.
Yingling, what Yingling?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yingling traditional lager, and I believe it was from
Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yes, that sounds right, Hershey Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Pottsville, pottsville, that's right.
Pennsylvania, yeah, they have a.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I don't remember if it's a porter or what it is, but
they have one in collaborationwith Hershey.
It's a chocolate something.
I don't remember exactly what itis because, again, we don't get
it out by us.
They were supposed to partnerup with Molson, coors, miller
and Coors and then COVID hit andthat all kind of went to shit
(03:33):
basically.
So I don't know if that's stillin the works or not, but they
were supposed to expand theirdistribution because they've
been mainly East Coast, up anddown North South East Coast,
whatever, because I think youcan get it in Florida, not sure
you can get it further north.
Not exactly sure how far, butit's been trickling its way west
over the last few years.
(03:54):
I believe it might be availablein Illinois now.
I'm not sure Again, I don'tknow.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I've been out of the business for a little bit.
So apparently it is America'soldest brewery.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I believe that's correct Oldest family run or
something like that it sayssince 1829.
Yeah, which is older thanMiller, which is older than
Budweiser, all that.
So it's been around for a longtime.
I believe it's still withinthat family as well.
It's been through generations,if I'm not mistaken.
(04:26):
I could be wrong, but you likelagers?
It's a traditional lager, so Isaid you should try this one.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
All right, what do you got?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I have a Cold Hammer Highball.
So the brewery, or distillerybrewery, is a Cold Hammer, it's
called a Highball.
It's a bourbon whiskey withsoda water and natural lemon
flavor 7%.
But this one is from what did Isay?
Yeah, this is from Indianapolis, produced by West Fork Whiskey
(04:53):
Company in Indianapolis, indiana.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Very nice.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
So very local to the area there we go.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Mine is a bottle, so it is already open.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I already opened it for her, but cheers to you.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Cheers.
Tastes like a traditional lager.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Tastes like weird.
Yeah, you can taste a littlebit of bourbon in it, but I feel
like I taste more of the sodawater than I want to.
I don't taste a ton of lemon,but yeah, so just a little too
much soda.
It's weird because you get aninitial flavor and then it
bottoms out and then it finisheswith maybe a hint of lemon.
(05:36):
Not very much, so it's reallyquite strange.
But again, maybe, like thebeatbox, it'll get better by the
third one.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Hey, speaking of beatbox, I was told never to
have carbless again.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Speaking of beatbox, no, you've been banned from
having carbless ever again.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I was going to try a third time because my colleague
I told her the situation she'slike no, no, no, you have to try
the pineapple.
And I was like why didn't youtell me this from the start?
I thought you told me to trythe situation.
She's like no, no, no, you haveto try the pineapple.
And I was like why didn't youtell me this from the start?
I thought you told me to trythe traditional.
So I did, and she's like no, no, no, the pineapple, no.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Here's what's going to happen You're going to leave
all the pineapple to your friend, okay, and you're not going to
fucking touch one, because it'sbeen a disaster every single
time that you've tried it, andit's only been twice, and that
is two times too many for you.
Yes, so we're not going to docarbless anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
No carbless.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Sorry to carbless.
If you sponsor the podcast,we'll change our tune instantly.
I'm just kidding.
It's just not for everybody and, like you said, you don't like
that fake sugar, sweetener orwhatever stuff for it.
So no, it's just not for you.
I know it wouldn't be for me,but no more, no more.
No more.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
So I am also in the middle of a cold Under the
weather, so if you hear snifflesor coughing, that is Kate, my
apologies.
Yeah, it happens.
Yes, so we're in IndianaTomorrow.
We're going to go to Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
And you've never been to either.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I've never been this way.
No, most of the time when myfamily traveled, we either went
west and drove a lot I mean, weflew to many places but drove a
lot out to colorado, whateverand we only took one trip, as
far as I know really, to theeast coast and we flew.
So I've never driven throughthis, I've never been to indiana
(07:36):
in my life, I've never been tokentucky and you've never been
to ohio never been to ohio andthat is where our story takes
place.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Oh snap, I know well, look at that, tie it right into
life look at that cheers tothat so we are going to talk
about phoebe and moses phoebeand moses yes, her last name has
changed throughout the historybooks, that seems weird.
(08:06):
Sometimes it's Mosey M-O-S-E-Y,oh so it might just be a
misspelling, or something, yeah,or when people were starting to
get married, they changed it tomake it less immigrant, kind of
a thing did you ever knowanyone who got married that took
on like?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I feel like it's more of a south thing, but only
because I?
I'm thinking of one person inparticular.
Where the female gets married,they take them the, their
husband's name, but then their,their maiden name, becomes their
middle name.
Have you ever seen that?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
um, no, not quite.
I have a friend who her maidenname is already a hyphen name
from her parents.
Yeah, because her parents werelawyers and they both had kept
their names, which makes sense,so hers was hyphened.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
And did she hyphen it again, and then she hyphened it
again.
So she has three last names.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Because she is a doctor now, an oral surgeon or
something now.
So she kept her original nameas well and hyphened it.
Last I heard it's been a littlebit.
That's fine.
It just seems like a lot ofnames?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah, it's a lot of names.
Hey, paging doctor, oh, this istoo long, just come here.
Yeah, I mean, that's a lot ofnames.
Yeah, yeah, I mean I have threelast names, so this is my first
, middle and last name brad is abradley bradley is a last name
yeah I didn't know that alanbradley.
Yeah, who you're not fromwisconsin, so okay, so phoebe
(09:39):
and moses, phoebe and moses orMosey, or whatever iteration you
want to come up with.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Exactly so.
She was born in August in 1860.
Okay, okay, she was born toJacob and Susan Moses, who were
Quakers.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Quakers.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And they migrated from Pennsylvania and they
rented a farm in Drake County,Ohio.
Okay, it's actually right onthe Indiana border.
Oh well, there you go, I knowFancy.
So back then, Jacob Moses, andsee I wrote Mosey in here.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
So you don't know which one to use.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So back then, jacob Moses was the only one bringing
home the bacon.
Sure, he was farming in WillowDell, which is about 14 miles
away from where they were living.
Okay, and he barely made enoughmoney to keep his wife and his
seven kids fed.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Holy Well maybe he shouldn't have had so many kids
yeah, seven kids.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
But they were saving up for some land.
But then Jacob ends up dyingwhen Phoebebe is six years old,
oh dear.
So he was on his way back fromfarming when a blizzard came
through just out of nowhere,just a blizzard, like was it
winter no, it was more likewizard of oz and the tornado
just kind of showed up so theblizzards showed up?
(11:02):
yeah, exactly, exactly so theblizzard came through, he had
frostbite, his hands were frozen, he couldn't speak and he ended
up with pneumonia and justdidn't recover yeah, that, that
makes sense, especially for 1860you said yeah.
So his wife susan was left withabsolutely nothing yeah and
they had to move to a tiny place.
(11:24):
And to make things worse, theireldest daughter, mary jane, got
sick and died of tuberculosis.
Oh geez, yeah.
So susan had to sell everythingthat they owned, even their
milk cow, just to cover theirbills, right, sure so phoebe's
mother, susan, ended upremarrying and he also died soon
(11:46):
, but they had a baby in between, so she's got this other kid.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
She's back to seven.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, jesus yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
So, to try to make ends meet, susan worked as a
nurse at the Drake CountyInfirmary in Ohio during 1866
and 1867.
And it was basically a placefor the elderly, orphans, people
with mental health issues, andshe made about $1.25 a week,
which is about $25 a week Today.
(12:18):
Today.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That is terrible.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So life was tough.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Well, yeah, Getting out of poverty was tough yeah
still is, and yeah, so life wastough Well yeah, getting out of
poverty was tough.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah, still is.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And little Phoebe decided to take her dad's rifle
above the fireplace, loaded itup with so much gunpowder and
aimed it outside at a rabbit ora squirrel, unknown, different
accounts.
Fair enough, off in thedistance, right Fired, hit it
(12:51):
Smack dab in the head.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
So the gun actually kicked back and she broke her
nose.
Oh Jesus, but she got some foodon the table for her family
that day.
Well yeah, she became a hunter,little Miss Phoebe Ann Moses is
Annie Oakley.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I was just gonna say it's gotta be Annie.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Oakley, it's Annie Oakley.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Jesus, you're not excited.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
How did you guess that it was Annie Oakley?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Because Phoebe Ann Moses, Ann Annie Oakley, I just
it's really that quite simple.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I thought it was clever.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Well, if you think about it, time frame wise.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
If you know of her time frame, I suppose and I do.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I mean, I don't know much about her.
I know of the basic time frameand so on, but well, we'll get
into this when we learn more.
But I just put it it together.
That was my guess, but you beatme to it.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
So maybe I should just ask you next time who am I
talking about?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
anyway, it's amy oakley why don't you next time
see if you can guess, make meguess.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
So she was actually called annie instead of phoebe
right growing up, sure, so soAnnie was pretty much always her
name, but I wanted to throw youoff well.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I mean, which didn't work.
If that's her proper name,though, so yes it makes sense to
.
To start with that so yeah, soshe went by.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Annie, moses, okay, okay.
So it wasn't enough that thatAnnie would like put some food
on the table, susan.
Susan was still forced to sendeight-year-old Annie to live at
the infirmary.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Oh really, she had to actually go live there.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yes, she actually took another sister with her.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Did you say in the order of children.
Where is she?
Do you know?
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Because obviously I don't recall, I think she was
third or fourth from the end.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
So basically in the middle, yeah, I think she was.
And which one died?
The oldest?
The oldest died.
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
So Annie and one of her sisters ended up at this
infirmary so there's left mouthsto feed, essentially, which
makes sense.
And she ended up with thesuperintendent there, named
saniel ed eddington, and hiswife nancy, and they taught her
sewing and decorating and theywere pretty good to her, nice um
(15:15):
.
And then in 1870 theyessentially, like they called it
bound her out.
But I, I'm pretty sure, like asan orphan yeah.
Well, well, not quite release,but she was, quote unquote, an
orphan.
So a family came in and askedto like adopt her.
(15:37):
Adopt her essentially.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Was her last name Oakley?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
No.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Just kidding.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
So this local family came in.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Adoption is a a very, very loose term like especially
.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, there wasn't really that kind of thing, right
, but they promised her 50 centsa week and schooling and she
was to come help take care ofthe mother of this family oh, so
the mother had issues notreally oh it was all a ruse.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Oh okay, it was a big fat lie really yeah, I hope you
tell us more about that yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
So the family really wanted a bigger girl so that she
could pump water and cook, andhe was only five foot.
Wow, really.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, she was tiny At that time, or like when she
grew up Period, so she was thatshort even at full growth.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yes, she was five foot and like 100 pounds.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
She was tiny Holy balls.
No, kidding.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
But they took her home and for two years she was
basically a slave to them.
Terrible mental and physicalabuse welts on her back.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
So can I ask real quick, and I don't know if you
probably don't even have thisanswer, however, why did they
want a female that could pumpwater and stuff?
Why wouldn't they get a male?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I think it was because they actually did want
some help with the wife.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
But they just kind of turned it into you're just
going to be a slave To doeverything, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Okay, fair enough.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Then Annie did talk about them making her a slave,
Like she used that terminology.
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I was a slave?
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, sure, and there was even one time the wife
threw her outside barefoot inthe freezing cold for falling
asleep while sewing.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Oh Jesus, she was 12 years old, yeah, I mean, you
fall asleep and you're how old,I mean 39.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Some change.
You're close to the 40s.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
And you fall asleep all the time.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
You need your naps.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
But Annie actually did write her own autobiography.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
She did Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Although it's kind of a ruse, there's really nothing.
There's not a whole lot of factin there.
No, no, everybody pretty muchknows that it was all fake
stories or embellished stories.
It's a work of fiction.
But Annie only called these twopeople the wolves.
She never, ever called them byname.
So we actually don't know whothese two people are.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Couldn't you trace that back somehow, though?
Speaker 1 (18:15):
So there is speculation on two different
families, but it's not clear.
Okay, fair enough.
So she just called them thewolves.
Well, they sounded like it.
But eventually she was able torun away and she went back to
her mother who had married for athird time.
Oh geez, did she have anotherkid?
No, I don't think so.
Oh, thank God.
And when she returned shestarted hunting and selling what
(18:38):
she got to hotels and localgrocery stores to help pay for
the bills.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Okay, can I ask another question before I forget
it?
Mm-hmm, what happened to hersister that went to the
infirmary with her?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
She ended up getting married, I think eventually,
like she came out fine.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Okay, so like she didn't get adopted or whatever,
no, no, okay, no, she came outfine.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I think she ended up getting married.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Okay, I was just curious, because it's like she
ran away and it's like whathappened to her so well she ran
away after she got adopted,whatever.
Yeah, yeah exactly so.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
annie was paying bills with all these, these
animals that she's catchingright.
She was able to pay off their$200 mortgage, oh wow, and she
was only 15.
That's impressive.
So impressed by her shooting,mr Jack Frost.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Is this a Christmas story?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
all of a sudden, he happened to own a Cincinnati
hotel, and he actually had beenone to have purchased her game
in the past.
Sure, he arranged for ashooting contest.
Oh, mm-hmm, fancy, it was aman's sport and shooting
contests were a favorite at thistime Right.
So on Thanksgiving in 1875, shewas to face Frank E Butler.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
And she was 15 in 1875, right, you said.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yes, this is 1875.
Yes, she was 15 and it was 1875.
Right, you said yes, this is1875.
Yes, she is 15.
Yes, yes, um, and mr butler isan irish immigrant and he is a
known marksman.
He was touring the countrydoing shows, uh, and he was
known to take on like localcompetitors.
Okay, so he bet Frost, thehotel manager, a hundred dollars
(20:29):
.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
That's a lot of money at that time, a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
A hundred dollars that he could beat any local
sharpshooter.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
And so he brought out little.
So, jack, Frost brought out.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Annie so Butler shows up with hundreds of people
watching and out walks this15-year-old five-foot girl.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
He's probably like are you fucking kidding me?
Yeah carrying this big rifleProbably as big as her.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
That's funny because, yeah, I mean that gun couldn't
have been much different size.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
No.
Obviously lengthwise, but sothey took turns, shooting like
clay pigeons, one after another,shoot one, shoot one, shoot two
, shoot two.
Sure, one after another.
After another.
Right 25th pole comes.
Butler missed, but not annieshe got it in the bag, she won
(21:20):
the match so I think he was 29at the time.
Oh, the guy Butler.
Wow.
So Frank Butler always claimedthat he had lost the second that
he saw her.
He actually ended up falling inlove with her Of course he did.
He gave her tickets to his nextshow, and as part of his
(21:41):
shooting act he had a Frenchpoodle named George, and Annie
loved George, imagine that.
So Frank's way of wooing herwas to send flowers and cards
pretending they were from George, like signed Love George.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
So this 29-year-old is courting a 15-year-old.
Yes, that seems a little bitweird, and they got married the
next year.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Oh, I mean, she was 16.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Age of consent, I guess.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
But I love their story because it was a man's
sport.
He was really good at what hedoes and she shows him up and
he's like bring it, let's dothis, I will support you and he
was really really sweet to herokay so um annie and frank
(22:30):
finally started performingtogether um in 1882.
So for the next six years umbutler and his then shooting
partner john graham performed ona variety circuit, and ann
Annie would like stay in thebackground and just kind of help
out when needed so basicallysince they got married until she
turned 22 when she startedactually performing with him
(22:53):
yeah she was kind of helping outyeah
gotcha okay so, while inSpringfield, ohio, um John
Graham, the partner, he ended upfalling ill and annie stepped
in oh so she would hold uptargets for for butler.
But butler kept missing.
This day he just kept missing.
And there was a spectator inthe crowd who heckled and
(23:17):
heckled him and said just letthe girl shoot then and so she
did so butler was like be myguest.
Let's do this.
Knowing full well what wasgoing to happen.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
He knew she was going to kill it.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, and so Annie hits the target every single
time, and then it became aButler and Annie bonanza.
No more Graham.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Poor Graham, I know Shouldn't have got sick that day
, I guess.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
But Annie needed a stage name.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Come in Oakley.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
She chose Oakley, supposedly after her paternal
grandmother.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
But other sources say it was a town nearby.
Oh, like the name of a townnearby, and she just kind of
pulled it off Either way.
So when the butlers hit theroad, traveling entertainment
was a really big thing.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Oh yeah, especially back then.
Come on, that was huge, hugeentertainment.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, there were circuses.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I was just going to say that.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Theater companies vaudeville.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yeah, all that stuff that toured around because they
could make a killing.
Really yeah, all that stuffthat toured around because they
could make a killing reallybecause that's that you couldn't
netflix and chill or whateverthe kids say these days, exactly
so.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
They'd play anywhere from huge arena to tiny smoky
bars, and for annie and frank,they, they loved the noisy
trains and the cheap hotels andmoving all the time, and so
annie and frank's shooting actcould literally between be oh
yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Did he have a stage name too, or was?
Speaker 1 (24:53):
it, it was frank butler, okay, yeah because why?
Speaker 2 (24:57):
why did she need a stage name, but he didn't?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
it was.
I don't think it was reallysomething that I read.
It was just something that shewanted, so it wasn't a part of
your research I was hoping toget away from that that's never
going away so their shooting act.
Yes could literally between bebetween a singer with dirty
jokes right and someone withalmost no clothes on.
(25:22):
Yeah, that's wild.
These variety shows were amen's thing, so there's lots of
innuendo, yep, bit of skin alittle ankle but this, exactly
but.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
But annie oakley was a quaker girl from ohio in the
victorian era were theyoriginally from pennsylvania, or
was that just her?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
parents okay, and she was terrified as being seen as
improper.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Sure no, she wanted to do the right thing, Exactly
and she decided to make herselfdifferent both in how she acted
and dressed.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Presented herself Exactly so she started wearing a
full coverage outfit, a calflength skirt, long sleeves and
leggings Right and that becameher signature look long sleeves
and leggings right and thatbecame her signature look.
She sewed her own costumes,which was important to her
because she wanted to controlhow people saw her, sure, and
she could really move freely inthem.
And she looked respectable,even a little bit childlike
(26:17):
because of how petite she waswell, I mean being only five
foot and you know 100 poundssoaking wet yeah you're gonna
look young because of that yeah,even if you're in your 20s.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So and frank found out pretty fast that annie was
the main attraction well, I mean, she was different because,
like you said, this was a man'sthing yeah a lot of men went to
these.
I'm sure women did too righteven kids, for that matter,
probably, but this was sodifferent for what they were
used to seeing, like I want togo see that girl shoot because
(26:49):
we don't get to see that it's,yeah, it's different.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
It's completely different shooting.
It's not a man shooting no.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So it totally makes sense why she would become the
main attraction over uh, what'sthis for?
Damn?
The husband's first name frankfrank jesus, I keep forgetting
it, frank butler yeah, yeah, butyeah, I mean nothing against
him.
No, nothing against him, it'sjust, this is a new fangled
thing.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Let's look at this and he was so good to her, he
became her assistant which iscrazy.
Yeah, isn't it funny how itjust flipped around exactly like
their, their traditional gendernorms were flipped on the ted
and they loved it.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
And again for being in the 1880s.
I mean that's wild, becausethat just wasn't a normal thing.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah.
So he knew that she kind of hadthat it factor and didn't want
to mess with it and he loved herand he was also a very smart
individual.
Well, it's very marketable.
Exactly, yes, she was prettyclassy and he also knew what it
took to succeed, because he wasalready successful.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
He was doing it.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
For sure.
So in 1884, they got along-term gig with Sells
Brothers Circus S-E-L-L-S.
Sells.
It was a pretty huge deal andthey finally had some like
steady income with this gig.
Sure, um, circus life was astruggle and the money was kind
(28:09):
of hit or miss um.
So when their season wrapped upin new orleans that december
they were looking to go back tothose like vaudevillian cheap
motels and yeah, doing theirlittle sideshows basically.
And basically dealing with someof these, like rougher
sexualized characters.
Sure, but then, right as thatcircus gig ended, buffalo Bill's
(28:35):
Wild West show rolled into town.
Yep.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I knew that she'd do it for that.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
So perfect timing.
They asked Cody for a job.
William Cody, yep.
So Annie was super excited.
It seemed like a dream to her.
But Cody already had a bignamed shooter.
His name was Captain Bogardus,okay, and he was already a huge,
huge star, sure.
(29:01):
So he did tell Annie no, likeit wasn't about her being a
woman.
They had other women in theshow.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
They had their thing already.
Yeah, the position's filled.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
The position's filled Exactly Sure.
So they did have to go back totheir variety circuit then Yep.
But then luck changed andBuffalo Bill's steamboat sank on
the Mississippi.
It sounds horrible, but CaptainBogardus lost all of his gear
and equipment and ended upquitting.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Man, I can't afford to replace this.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Probably.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
So Frank and Annie heard about this and immediately
wired Cody asking for a tryout.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Oh sure, why wouldn't you?
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Can I also ask another question real quick, you
being from Nebraska, have youbeen to the Buffalo Bill Cody
blah, blah, blah museum thingthat's in?
I'm thinking of the right thing.
Maybe not museum, but Fuck,where the hell is it?
Sarah would know.
All right, continue, I'll tryand think of it while we're
(30:08):
going through this.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
I know there was like a pioneer museum that was close
to where I lived in Minden,Nebraska.
How?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
many different places did you live in Nebraska?
It was close to where I livedin Menden, Nebraska.
How many different places didyou live in Nebraska?
Speaker 1 (30:19):
It was close to where I lived.
I lived in three places, sothat's.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Okay, anyways.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Bill was hesitant because Annie actually asked for
a bit of money.
Well, I mean, she should have Idon't think this small petite
woman could handle nightly shows.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Why?
Because she's petite.
Yeah, I don't know, good lord.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
But he agreed to a test.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
So, while practicing in an empty stadium, Annie
noticed a man in a fancy hatwatching her.
Oh, a fancy hat he rushed overshouting about how great she was
and asked for photos.
It was cody's manager, natesalisbury.
Nope, salisbury, salisbury, Ilike salisbury oh, that's funny
(31:09):
it was cody's manager, natesalisbury, not salisbury, and he
hired her right then and therehe said no questions asked,
pretty much it's like.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
So she didn't even actually get to do the test, he
just hired her well, I mean, shewas testing, oh, yeah, and he
was watching her.
Yeah, and he's like, oh my god,this is amazing, you're hired.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
so buffalo bill's wild west show was a huge
spectacle.
It was part theater, partcircus, part rodeo, and it gave
people in the rapidlyindustrializing East a taste of
the old frontier in the West.
And they loved it, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
They ate that shit up yes.
Because a lot of those peopleon the East never got to
experience that so it's likeholy crap, look at this other
world that exists out there, butwe can't afford to go.
But it can come to us.
Yeah, they're going to eat thatshit up, yeah, yeah.
And the funny thing is, it wasso not what it was.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Well, the whole idea of the American ruggedness and
the adventure cowboys andIndians were at the time it's
okay to say that it was how itwas but that whole era was just
disappearing.
So yeah, correct, this buffalobill wild west show was like a
living piece of history.
(32:28):
Yeah, it was keeping the pastand he brought it to life.
Yeah, basically, exactly so youwould see stage coaches and
soldiers and Native Americansand cowboys, horses, cattle and
even buffalo on his stage and itwas crazy lively version of a
Wild West show.
And that's where Annie Oakley,this girl from Ohio, started in
(32:50):
April 1885.
And even though she startedsmall, people loved her.
So when annie would come ontothe stage she wouldn't just walk
in, she would practically likeskip in blowing kisses and like
having this little persona on ashow, exactly for sure exactly
(33:11):
she was this sweet little girllooking girl with a powerful gun
.
She started with easy targetsglass balls that exploded with
feathers in it.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Okay, I don't know so like the feathers would go
flying, kind of thing Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
But glass too.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
So that doesn't seem safe, but whatever.
Well, I mean, it was the 1880s.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
They used glass balls a lot.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Them times were wild.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
But Frank would toss them up into the air one, two,
three at a time.
She would shoot them and shewould shoot all of them.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah, that seems even more dangerous now.
Yeah, I know Glasses flowing upin the air.
Hey everybody, look, Make sureyour eyes are open for this
glass to fall into it.
Yeah, this is a brilliant idea.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Let's market this.
She would literally hit allthese glass bulbs before they
hit the ground, right, right.
She'd go up to four, five, sixbulbs at a time.
Her act got faster and fastertargets shattering everywhere.
She shot with both hands.
Even she was ambidextrous withher shotgun upside down.
(34:12):
She would fire sideways.
She would use a mirror.
Does she ever hold it like agangster in the movies sideways.
I mean that would be like liketop heavy kind of a thing like
I'm I'm joking but one of herfamous tricks was splitting a
playing card held sideways orshooting through the heart right
(34:34):
, yeah I've actually I thinkI've seen a picture or something
like that.
Sometimes she would miss onpurpose and pout To kind of like
play it up Uh-huh, becauseobviously she'd always hit her
target, so that was part of heract.
So then she would just kind oflike quote-unquote, redeem
herself.
But it was all part of the act.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
As soon as Annie was getting rave reviews, cody moved
her up in the show, so thatseason 150 000 people across
america saw something completelynew a woman shooting like a man
, but with this sweet, innocentvibe.
That was a little bit sexy too.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
That's a lot of people for back then it was To
be able to see her.
That's crazy yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
And because she was such an incredible shot.
What made her reallyinteresting was how she blended
that with the image of a goodAmerican woman.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
And she could be all demure and ladylike, even a
little girlish, but also reallyattractive yeah, and then
playful and all that yes and herfame exploded when the wild
west show was on staten islandin 1886 in new york.
Half a million people went tosee the show.
Holy crap and annie became justas famous as wild bill himself.
(35:53):
I'm sure Mm-hmm.
Buffalo Bill, wild Bill is.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Hickok.
My bad Buffalo Bill, that's allright.
Buffalo Bill Wild West Show.
Yeah, I think we screwed thatup a couple times maybe, but my
bad, that's all right.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Buffalo Bill and Wild Bill are two different Bills
and both from the old timey time.
Yes, so we are talking aboutBuffalo Bill and his Wild West
show.
Do you know where Wild BillHickok died?
In Deadwood.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yes, so the other one is from Deadwood, south Dakota.
Yeah, so my bad, my bad, that'sall right, that's all right.
So Frank took over Annie'spublicity, playing up the East's
obsession with the West Sure,and he called her the Girl of
the Western Plains, even thoughshe was from Ohio.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
But they didn't need to know that.
No, just like her name was inOakley.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
It's a character they built for this show.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, exactly, so it makes sense.
And then she met Sitting Bull.
Ooh, yes.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
There you go.
He was pretty famous.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, sitting Bull saw her rifle skills and
eyesight and thought that shehad some kind of a special gift.
So he was so impressed withOakley's skills that he offered
her $65 for a photograph of himand her together, and that was
about over $2,000 today.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
I mean, that's pretty good for a photograph, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yeah, you probably got weird instagram influencers.
He got, or he, he gave her thename little sure shot, little
sure shot.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
There's a really good uh beastie boy song called sure
shot yeah, well, that umnickname.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Traveled with her wherever she went Sure.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
I'm not surprised at that, Especially when you get it
from Sitting Bull.
That's fantastic, yes.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
So in March 1887, Buffalo Bill's Wild West show
took off for London to performfor Queen Victoria's big
celebration.
Their ship was literally afloating zoo.
I bet it was Animals everywhere.
It's kind of like Noah's Arkyes, zoo, I bet it was Animals
everywhere.
It's kind of like Noah's Ark.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Yes, Headed to England.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
So along on this trip is a new girl.
Oh, lillian Smith.
She was a 15-year-oldsharpshooter from California.
Oh really, mm-hmm.
Lillian was good and Bill Codyput out a $10,000 challenge to
(38:23):
anyone who could beat her.
She was that good.
Did Annie take that challenge?
Well Well, lillian wasn'texactly shy about her skill.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
And she was basically bragging to everybody that
annie was in for really, yeah,so she was a bit of a wild card.
She liked hanging out with thecowboys and wore flashy tops
saying she was the best and itreally bugged annie because
she's like the demure, she'sjust lady easy going too.
(38:56):
At this time annie was 26 oldmade by those lily was 15 annie,
actually started shaving offyears of her age to compete with
her, to stay competitive.
Yeah, that's terrible.
So during research, her age isjust a big jumbled mess.
(39:18):
Nobody knows exactly what yearshe was, this age or that,
because she was born in 1860.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
So I feel like we can , I feel like we can determine
how old she was.
So how would she shave yearsoff like hey, I just turned 25.
And then like two months later,hey, I just turned 25.
I mean what, how did she?
Speaker 1 (39:39):
do basically um.
So I mean, there wasn't, therewere no receipts back then
obviously that's.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
That's the point no fact checkers how about you just
don't fucking tell your age I?
Speaker 1 (39:47):
mean that works too seriously.
But she was tiny, she could getaway with it well exactly.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
She probably could say she was 15, like what was
the other one's name now?
Speaker 1 (39:57):
lillian, lillian, that's right.
So on may 9th 1887 the wildwest show premiered in london
and annie and lillian were bothbilled as stars, right, 10 000
people were in attendance.
That's a lot of people, forback then.
Oscar wilde was there.
What queen victoria?
(40:18):
That was wild.
And german kaiser wilhelm ii?
Oh sure, yes yeah who basicallywas involved with like the
starting and the ending of worldwar one?
Yep so how'd that go?
So the Kaiser actually askedAnnie to be in the show and he
(40:46):
held out a cigar.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Actually I think he held it in his hand.
He held it in his hand and hadAnnie like shoot off the ash the
tip of it or whatever.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah so whatever.
Yeah so, whatever, whatever.
So the English loved the ideaof America as this place of
freedom, quite different.
The show and Annie kind ofrepresented that.
And Annie was especiallypopular because she was this
Wild West girl, but she was alsoa proper Victorian lady, right?
(41:16):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (41:16):
correct, and that's probably why they liked her a
lot.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Yeah, and Queen Victoria came to see the show
and she called Annie and Lillianover and Lillian of course,
showed off her rifle, whichreally ticked off Annie.
Annie really didn't likeLillian and her bragging.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
She was bragging showing off whatever where
Annie's like no, just let mywork do the Exactly the talking
yeah exactly, exactly, you'reright, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
So then there was a shooting competition in
Wimbledon, oh, and all the topAmerican shooters were invited.
Lillian Smith bombed Really,she was bad.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Was there any explanation as to why she did so
bad?
Speaker 1 (42:02):
No, not that I had read, sure, there was no really
explanation, okay, but Annieshowed up and killed it of
course, because she's annieoakley yeah.
So she totally showed up,lillian, and became the talk of
the town, and some even said shewas more popular than buffalo
bill, like she was back inamerica I mean I would say, and
(42:24):
bill didn't even completecompete.
No, he's like no, just let theladies take it.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Well I mean ladies first, I guess.
But that's kind of odd for thattime that he wouldn't even try
except for things got somethings got tense between annie
and buffalo bill how come?
Speaker 1 (42:41):
because she was doing better than him.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Well, she, again newfangled thing, shiny new toy,
whatever you want to say,whatever weird phrase.
So yeah, I mean it makes sense,though, because he was an older
guy.
I don't know how old was he.
When did you see any age for?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
him if I did.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
I didn't write it down, and that's okay, yeah, but
you know, older guys they've.
They've seen this shit, theywant to again.
A lot of men go to these thingsand whatever they want to see
the nice, new, shiny little,pretty looking, well-dressed
girl that can shoot the shit outof anything.
So, yeah, I mean I get it.
The fact that he let them bughim, I guess Probably the Times
(43:25):
probably.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
But either way, and Annie and Lillian, their rivalry
also kind of came to a head.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
So a friend of Lillian's went to a publication
okay and told the newspaper thatlillian was the star oh my god,
that's scandalous.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I know, I mean okay but they like removed annie from
the publication, like alltogether, so okay why the fuck
would you like this friend of aperson comes to this publication
and be like nudge, nudge, wink,wink.
She's the real star.
Why would they just take thatfor like, oh my god, you're
(44:06):
right, we should remove thisperson completely because
they're fucking stupid they careabout slander and libel and
fact checking.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Well, that's like our media today.
So because of this publication,it caused a rift.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Of course, as it should have honestly.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Frank, her husband, and Nate Salisbury, the manager.
They defended Annie, butBuffalo Bill stayed silent, so
he just didn't want to be a partof it, basically.
But Annie reportedly toned downher act to avoid overshadowing
Cody at this time.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
She was trying not to show up on his show.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Yeah, so come that October she decided to leave the
show and return to vaudeville,essentially the variety shows.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
So they went back to the nothing.
Yes, that's.
That's gotta be tough afterbeing in the limelight.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
And they were together for like two and a half
years.
Yeah, I mean quite a long timefor a lot of touring all that
whatever and so when peopleasked annie like what happened
between you and bill cody, shewould simply say the reasons
were too long to explain I'mgonna start using that she, she,
(45:29):
literally like didn't talkabout anybody behind their back,
like oh nope it, it's just toolong to explain, Is what?
Speaker 2 (45:37):
it is no, I get that.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
She did the very diplomatic, whatever word you
want to throw in there kind ofway to do it In 1888, she and
Frank tried vaudeville, butaudience wanted more singers and
dancers, not shooters, sure,and he worked for other Wild
West shows.
(46:00):
But Nate Salisbury, the manager, was reportedly threatening
anyone who tried to hire herBecause he wanted her back.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Oh well, that's a dick move, though, because I
mean that just fucked her.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Yes, but she ended up coming back.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Oh dear.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
She came back in 1889 okay and essentially they said
that the past issues wereresolved, like there was okay,
whatever says you yeah, but okay, yeah, um, so she returned to
buffalo Bill's Wild West show inParis.
(46:35):
Oh, she was invited to Paris.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
They were already over there.
Yes, this is obviously not thesame time as they were over
there prior right.
This is a second time over toLondon.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
Okay, and so she joined the crew again.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Yes, already over there, okay already over there,
and what could have been part ofthe deal for Annie to accept
this was that Lillian Smith wasnot invited.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
How come this was not part of your research?
What?
How come she wasn't invited?
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Because Annie and Lillian had a rivalry.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
I get that.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
So it's speculated In the research that I read.
It's speculated.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
They didn't invite Lillian because they invited
Annie back.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
And Annie said don't invite Lillian, and then I'll
come back.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Oh, okay, so do we ever find out what happened to
Lillian?
Speaker 1 (47:28):
No.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Because that's not part of your research.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Exactly.
I don't give a shit, I didn'task that.
So over 30 million peopleattended this paris expedition.
30 million expeditionexposition did you say 30
million?
Speaker 2 (47:44):
yep what you?
That is a lot of people I meanthat's half of the population of
Europe.
When the Black Death killedthem.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Remember that.
Look at you.
I know this is over a course oftime.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
I get that, thank you Just bringing it back
Referencing old podcast episodes.
Stay tuned.
History Buffoons what up?
Speaker 1 (48:10):
So Annie became a sensation Again.
She received offers and she hadfictional stories spread about
her Sure Dime novels Exaggerated, Can you?
Speaker 2 (48:24):
try that one more time.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Exaggerated, nope, exacerbated, nope Exaggerated.
There is the word Wow.
Exaggerated her past.
That is a tough word.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yes, can you spell it real quick.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
No, yes.
Can you spell it real quick?
No, okay and go.
So yes.
So Her legend grew.
Oh, dear Legends rise Withstories of her saving a prince
shooting a cigarette from PrinceWilhelm's mouth.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
When in fact, he held it in his hand.
So she and Frank startedtelling tall stories publicly
sure I mean just to build themystique and all that, yeah, and
part of her autobiography isall of these tall tales, yeah,
so in 1893, buffalo bills show.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Despite not being invited to the chicago world
fair, they were across thestreet and drew bigger crowds
than the world fair well, yeah,because they're more popular.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
I mean that world's fair was popular too.
I mean all the world's fair.
Really they don't do thoseanymore, right no and I don't
remember what the last one was,because I I mean, that's why the
Eiffel Tower was built.
Was it For the World's Fair inParis, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Yeah, we'll have to do an episode on that.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yeah, we should just do World's Fair, just like of
the history, of that orsomething.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Yeah, so 1893 was when people started really
missing the Wild West andBuffalo Bill's show became the
symbol of the good old days.
Yeah, show became the symbol ofthe good old days.
Yes, the chicago exposition wasall about new tech, electrical
lighting and edison's earlymovies.
Yes, in 1894, edison filmedannie.
(50:04):
Oh, really, he filmed annie,okay, and you can see it on
youtube.
Oh, they, actually it's like 25or 26 seconds long, so I'll
have it in our social media, butshe's potentially like one of
the first people on like rollingfilm is, is it pretty grainy?
yes, but you can clearly see aperson someone is like tossing
(50:28):
up something pigeon clay pigeonsor something.
She's like shooting it shoot.
Oh yeah, shoot, shoot, shootlike awesome.
Yeah, round by round by roundit was the first viral video.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
It could have been.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
I mean no, but yes so by with these movies coming out
, that was pretty much a signthat the wild west shows were on
their way out.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Well, they were dying because they didn't need the
that anymore.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
They could go a different medium, basically yeah
so in the early 1900s movieswould be like the new western
entertainment, yep um.
But in the 1890s annie andbuffalo bill were still huge,
playing in tons of cities I betin 1901 they were all on like a
train convoy.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
There was like a first train, second train, third
train.
I don't know if they were carsor individual trains.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Oh sure.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
But there was a train coming from the other direction
.
Who like split off knowing thatthe train was coming?
Speaker 2 (51:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
But he thought it was only the one.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
Oh shit.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
And so he came back onto the main track and hit the
train that Annie was on.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
Did, she die.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
No, that train crash killed most of their animals.
Oh shit, really Like over ahundred horses, holy balls.
Yeah, like it was awful.
No person died, but there wereplenty of injuries that is wild,
that no one, no person, diedyeah all those animals did.
(52:06):
That's crazy um annie had a badback.
After that she had surgery onit like six times after that
incident?
Speaker 2 (52:13):
yeah, oh, could you imagine getting surgery on your
back in 1890s six differenttimes?
Speaker 1 (52:18):
I mean, I couldn't imagine doing that now and it's
2025 1890 holy fuck, no, thankyou yeah, and so she decided to
leave the show.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
But no, you said 1901 , I'm sorry, 1901, yeah, early
either way.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
Early 1900s yeah, fuck that yeah and so she
decided to leave the show.
But even after just one year,she she tried to get back into
the spotlight and she agreed tobe in a play oh dear.
So she left the wild west showand now she's trying to be an
actress okay so the play waswritten about her.
It was fictional but surewestern heroine performing her
(52:53):
shooting tricks just keep inmind, her book was also fiction
too but she was 42 and shewanted a new career, sure she's
different avenue stream so onAugust 11th, revenue stream.
August 11th 1903.
Headlines appeared Chicagonewspapers a man named 1903.
(53:18):
Okay, headlines appearedChicago newspapers.
A man named Hurst in particularreported she'd stolen pants to
buy cocaine what I don't know.
So they're accusing AnnieOakley of stealing pants to buy
cocaine with yes, I don't knowhow that works, but that's what
(53:44):
it was, fucking wild.
And the Associated Press spreadthe story, devastating Annie.
She had worked hard to maintainher, her reputation, well, sure
, so obviously the story wasfalse.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
The woman that they arrested was an annie oakley
impersonator see, and that isthat's the problem with
obviously media, whether it'stoday or back then, obviously
different problems today, thenback then fucking an
impersonator and they just blamethe real one.
Oh, you're fucking idiots andthe damage was done Well that's
(54:21):
the problem, because even thoughit wasn't true, it was this
impersonator, nobody fuckingcares, especially back in 1901
or 1903.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
No, if Annie Oakley stole pants, then Annie Oakley
stole pants.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
As far as anyone's concerned doesn't matter,
Because even if the next thingis written, it doesn't matter.
They saw the first thing.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
So that is wild.
And she knew that this woulddestroy her.
So she was personally insulted.
But she was also a savvybusinesswoman, right, and knew
the potential cost and waswilling to fight to clear her
name.
Sure.
So she sent out telegramsdemanding the papers retract the
(55:03):
story.
Most of them did and apologized.
But it wasn't enough.
She sued every single paperthat ran that story, and I'm
sure there was quite a few still.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Do you have a number 55.
Holy balls, how much did yousue each one for?
Speaker 1 (55:25):
I don't know the exact number but, I, do have
something at the end.
Okay, so she did spend her ownmoney on lawyers to fight this,
and she spent six years assumingthese 55 papers Wow, that's a
lot of years.
I mean, she worked hard tobuild her reputation.
(55:48):
She wasn't going to letsomebody strip it away.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
Just a fucking blink of an eye basically, especially
when it's just a fuckingimpersonator.
And they're yeah, basically,especially when it's just a
fucking impersonator, andthey're like, nope, it's the
real one, let's slander herfucking name.
It's like do some fuckingjournalistic research, dumb
fucks.
I mean it's kind of horseshitthat yeah, no, this is annie
oakley.
Yeah, let's print it yeah don'teven put it to the editor, just
(56:13):
fucking run with it thenewspaper Mongrel Hurst, mongrel
, hurst, mongrel.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
Wait, what?
What's his first name?
Hurst?
I don't know his first name.
It was Hurst.
It was his name, but he ownedone of the Chicago papers.
But what's the Mongrel Mongrel.
Speaker 2 (56:31):
Mongrel, yeah, what do you the?
Speaker 1 (56:32):
tycoon, a tycoon.
Speaker 2 (56:34):
Is that his first name?
Speaker 1 (56:35):
No, it's his last name.
It's an adjective Like a tycoon.
Speaker 2 (56:40):
Oh Okay, I guess I've never really heard that Shit
now I gotta find out.
Oh, it's okay, let's just runwith it, let's make it a new one
.
Speaker 1 (56:49):
Yeah Mongol.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
Mongloid.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Apparently, mongol is a supervillain In DC Comics.
Is he really?
Yup, okay, all right.
Did I just make something up.
I'm hoping so, because Ithought it meant actual
something.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
It's okay.
Speaker 1 (57:13):
Or mogul.
Maybe it's mogul.
Maybe there's no N that's it.
I mean a mogul.
It's a mogulul, maybe it'smogul.
Maybe there's no n that's it.
I mean a mogul.
It's a mogul, not a mogul, amogul is an important or
powerful person, especially inthe motion picture or media
industry.
I know, okay, I know I we gotthere.
Hey, I learned something newfolks.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
I don't know, that might be the front runner for
the episode title.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
Mongol or Mogul Mongol?
Oh my gosh, that was prettygreat.
So Hurst tried to dig up dirton her.
Couldn't find a freaking thing.
Speaker 2 (57:50):
Of course not.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
Because she's lovely.
She's a lovely person.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
She's a good little two shoes, you know persona not
in a bad no no I know that's whyI didn't.
I, as soon as I said I'm likewrong context because, no, it
wasn't in a bad way, she wasjust that's.
She was a good person.
She was a good person and she,yeah, would fabricate some
stories for her persona,whatever.
(58:14):
But so what?
Look at all the people that dotoday.
I mean, so what?
Speaker 1 (58:18):
so annie prepared for each trial, presenting,
treating the courtroom like herown stage.
She denied everything right andshe presented herself as a
respectable lady.
Sure, she was super careful incourt, right, she dressed in
black.
Oh, she wore small diamondearrings.
(58:38):
With her hair up, she correctedfalse statements and she was
all about courtesy.
Okay, and when asked how thearticle affected her, she said
that she felt like she couldnever perform again.
Speaker 2 (58:51):
Well, right, because her brand is tarnished.
Speaker 1 (58:59):
The jury sided with her.
Speaker 2 (58:59):
She won 54 out of 55 cases did it say why she didn't
win the 55th one?
Speaker 1 (59:03):
no, but hearse the mogul hearse the mongol he had
to pay 27 000 to her to Good.
Every other thing was like less.
That was like the biggest Sure.
But after paying all of herlawyers she actually lost money.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
I mean, that's usually how it works.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Even today, that's how it works, but she got her
name cleared right.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
Unless you don't have to pay until unless they win,
and then you still lose money.
Speaker 1 (59:30):
So, with the lawsuits finally over and he's 50 at
this time she went back to theWild West show Again.
She was still drawing in majorcrowds, but her popularity
started to wane because, I mean,the times were changing Well,
right, and by 1910, she was kindof seen as like a throwback, a
(59:51):
way back, you know.
Speaker 2 (59:52):
Well, I mean she is 50.
Speaker 1 (59:56):
I mean that's like 20 years over to life expectancy
back then but it's more like butno, that's something that
happened back in the day well,yeah, because even though I mean
she's born in 1860, this is1910, 50 years ago.
Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
So she started, you know, 35 years prior.
Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
That's a long fucking time and movies were taking
over, so like 100 becauseshooting wasn't necessary.
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
No, it wasn't the gimmick, it was at the time.
When it was they, they made itpopular because let's go to the
theater and see this movie insilence.
Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
So so she retired in 1913.
Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
So she would have been 53.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
But she wasn't really cut out for staying at home.
Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
For retirement.
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Yeah, frank joked that she was actually a terrible
housekeeper.
Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
So did she go be a Walmart, greeter.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
What, what, that's what a lot of people do.
They sold their house and theyended up just traveling and they
shot and they hunt and they didshows and whatever else.
So Annie didn't exactlydisappear, um, and she also used
her fame to encourage women tobe active and taught tons of
women how to shoot, sure, andshe was a big believer in women
(01:01:06):
using guns for self-defense,saying that they should have
them at home and carry them whenthey're out and about and alone
.
Yeah, and even showed them howto hide a gun under an umbrella
who doesn't know that?
so even when she retired, anniewas a mix of being a strong
woman and a proper lady, and sheoffered to lead sharpshooters
(01:01:27):
in the war as well.
World war one right and afterworld war one broke out, annie
said if I would have shot theKaiser way back when.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
I might have saved the lives of several million
soldiers.
Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Isn't that messed up?
Yeah, so after World War Ibroke out.
Annie said if I shot the KaiserI might have saved the lives of
several million soldiers Wild.
I didn't know then that hewould swing the iron fist and
shake the universe.
Perhaps it was well for both ofus that humans lack foresight.
According to Frank Butler, hesat down and wrote a letter to
(01:02:06):
Kaiser Wilhelm saying that AnnieOakley wanted to repeat the
shot, and the Kaiser neverreplied.
Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
She's like she's going gonna assassinate me, oh
dear.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
That's kind of cool.
So in 1922 she did a charityshow.
Oh, charity um, but then shehad a car accident.
After that she had a car.
She was, yeah, she had a caraccident, okay, and it left her
with lasting injuries.
Oh sure, she actually did meltdown a lot of her medals and she
donated the money, so she'skind of like putting her affairs
(01:02:41):
in order Just the medals thatshe won through competitions and
stuff.
Yeah, okay, yeah, that's crazyAt 66, she was kind of weakening
.
Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
There was some speculation that she was
suffering from some leadpoisoning with all the shot that
she had over the years,especially back then, I can see
that Even if she put a bullet inher mouth for a second or
whatever, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
So she ended up dying in her sleep on November 3rd
1926.
And at the time Frank Butlerwasn't at home.
They have spent all this timetogether.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
And he missed out on her dying and he wasn't home
when she died.
Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
That's sad he was so distraught by her death that he
stopped eating and he died 18days later in Michigan.
Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
That happens a lot, but they were together for a
long time, I mean.
Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
It was said 50 years, so Well so.
Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
I didn't do the math.
She died when 1926.
So she would have been 66.
He was 14 years older than herwhen they started courting and
all that.
So yeah, he would have been.
You said 66 for her.
Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
Yeah, and they married in 76.
Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Yeah, because she would have been 16.
So he probably would have been30 at the time 29, I think is
what they said.
I thought that's when they wentEither way.
29, 30.
Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Sorry, no, you're right.
30.
Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Doesn't matter.
14 years basically, so he wouldhave been 80 years old.
Yeah, so that's wild that hemade it to 80 and she died at 66
.
Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
He wasn't even there to see her go.
That's sad.
Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
But she was cremated and he was buried next to her
ashes in Greenville, ohio.
Oh, okay, so there is a vastcollection of Annie's personal
possessions, performancememorabilia and firearms on a
permanent exhibit in the garstmuseum in the national annie
oakley center in greenville,ohio.
(01:04:40):
Okay, she has been inductedinto the traps shooting hall of
fame oh, that's cool thenational cowgirl museum and hall
of fame in fort worth, texasthat's funny the national
women's hall of fame, the ohiowomen's hall of fame and,
randomly, new jersey's hall offame.
What I don't know okay, but thatis the story of phoebe and
(01:05:05):
moses, aka annie oakley akaphoebe and mosey.
Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
Yeah, that's funny.
Yeah, as soon as you like.
Yeah, that's funny.
Yeah, as soon as you like.
Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
We're starting to say the time frame, phoebe, and I'm
like, no, this is annie oakley.
Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
I just I could just tell, and which is awesome,
because I I didn't know a lotabout, of that, about her yeah
um, obviously I've known of her,of course.
Um, and especially with the, uh, I want to mix up the like you
did for the wild bill, hickokand the buffalo bill coney um,
see, that's what I was probablymessing up with, that nebraska
(01:05:42):
thing.
I know I'm thinking of something.
I'm pretty sure it's innebraska sarah would probably
remember.
I don't remember.
Off the top of my head I've hada couple beverages, but anyways
, um, that's wild.
I didn't realize that.
I knew she was very popular,didn't know how it progressed
the way it did and I mean,basically it was her skill came
(01:06:04):
out of a necessity which wasproviding for the family, kind
of thing.
So that's pretty wild that shehad to.
Hey, we want to eat, let me goshoot this squirrel or whatever
animal is in front of me, kindof thing.
Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
She kind of gets mixed up a little bit with
Calamity, jane, oh sure.
Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Calamity.
Jane was a fucking drunk.
Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
She was actually in.
So she was in Missouri.
Yeah, In South Dakota.
Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Yes, because she was in Deadwood not just because of
the show, but I believe sheactually was in Missouri.
Yeah, in South Dakota.
Yes, because she she was inDeadwood not just because of the
show, but I believe sheactually was in Deadwood.
Yes, because she was friendswith with Wild Bill Hickok.
Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
Yes, yes, so there's there.
People think there's a littlebit of overlap, but there's
really not no, there reallyisn't they were kind of around
the same um time frame justconfusion, I think but yes, I,
it's all the quote-unquote.
West Wild West.
Yes, but Annie Oakley was Ohio,calamity Jane was South Dakota.
(01:07:03):
Yeah, correct, yeah, so I justwant to make that clear and
Annie Oakley prim proper persona.
Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
Calamity Jane, no.
Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Drunkard Not so much.
Not so much.
Maybe we'll do an episode onhere.
Stay tuned for a future episode.
We should go to deadwood and dothat I absolutely want to go to
deadwood and do that.
I would love to let's do that.
I haven't do you think myfriend would um skip her walk at
graduation tomorrow so we cango do that so we can go to like
(01:07:34):
deadwood uh, we can stop by andpick up the third microphone.
Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
She can be on the podcast.
Let's do that.
That sounds way better thanwalking for a graduation it does
.
No, I'm here for her of coursewe're here for her.
Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
That's why we're doing this okay, so between this
whole episode I've had to pauseto cough and stuff like that
and sniff and whatever sniff Ihad, I had the sniffles is what
I meant.
Sounded weird, but yes coughand sniffles, blow my nose, and
while that he um got up to getseveral more alcoholic beverages
(01:08:08):
.
So tell you are now three in tomy two thirds of this yingling
Like I thought.
Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
It got better as I drank more.
Like most alcoholic beveragesdo, the initial flavor is okay,
I'm not going to say great, butit drops off with that soda
water they call it.
On this one it drops off.
I'm not a huge soda water kindof guy.
(01:08:42):
I like tonic, which to me isway different, not so much
because soda water to me is morelike club soda.
I could be wrong but no, it gotbetter as I drank more.
This fourth one will probablybe amazing um.
Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
I liked my ying ling ying ling.
Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
It again it's, it's very basic, it's a beer.
There's not a ton of flavor toit, it's a beer but uh, I could,
I could easily drink this whenI sold beer I had this account,
um, and it was a liquor storebut he had a bar upstairs and I
got to know the bartender andthen he built a new store, he
moved over, whatever.
Anyways, sad, very nice guy.
(01:09:27):
I remember it was at theoriginal place.
I like pale ales.
You know that I like ipas, allthat, the hazies, all that stuff
.
I'm not a huge lager fan.
I don't remember which beer wewere talking about at the time,
but I'm like yeah, I don'treally like lagers.
She's like oh so you don't likebeer?
Flavored beer like no, I don't,I guess, because that's
(01:09:52):
traditionally what a beer issupposed to be like if you boil
it down, obviously, many, manyyears ago.
Lots of variations now, blah,blah, blah.
But no, I, I, I like lagers, Ilike modelo.
I mean, you love modelo, butfor what?
That is not like, it's notgoing to blow you out of the
(01:10:12):
water there's definitely notmuch to it.
No, it's just a beer, literallyjust a beer.
So again I knew it wasn't goingto be anything like to knock
your socks off.
Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
No, but I hadn't tried it and, like you said,
it's the oldest breweryapparently.
Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
In the United States if I'm not mistaken.
So I wanted you to try itbecause, again, we don't get it
out by us, eventually we will.
It will eventually make its wayto Wisconsin, I think.
But we happen to be here, I sawit.
I'm like you gotta at least tryit, because you've never had it
before and we were trying to gofor something, and that's why I
(01:10:48):
got mine.
From what did I say?
Indianapolis, it's from yessince we're on location, which
we don't get to do very often,uh, besides either the pod loft
or your place, um, we wanted totry something more ish local,
which I understand yours istechnically not local to where
we are, but we also can't get itwhere we're from.
(01:11:11):
So, um, no, I, I enjoyed mine.
Once I drank more of them andI'm glad you, you know again,
you didn't hate it.
Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
No, it was fine, it's nothing phenomenal, it's just.
Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
It's a beer, cheese sticks.
You have cheese sticks.
Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
Sorry, squirrel, I have cheese sticks next to me.
Welp, I suppose I'm going toeat some cheese sticks.
Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Alright, buffoons.
That's it for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
Buckle up, because we've got another historical
adventure waiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
explore.
Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
Hit us up on social media.
We're History Buffoons Podcaston YouTube X, instagram and
Facebook.
You can also email us athistorybuffoonspodcast at
gmailcom.
We are Bradley and Kate.
Music by Corey Akers.
Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn
those notifications on to stayin the loop.
Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to
rate and review us.
Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
Remember, the buffoonery never stops.
Oh, hey there.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Oh, hey there.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome to History, buffoons.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm Bradley.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I'm Kate and we are on location for the first time.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is weird.
My phone, when you said oh heythere, apparently thought it
said oh Siri.
So let's turn that off becausethat's not necessary.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
My best friend is graduating tomorrow in
Louisville, kentucky yeah, fromher doctorate program.
Yeah, and we needed to podcastat the same time, so we figured
let's do it all at once.
Yeah, I'm so, so, so excited tosee her tomorrow.
(01:00):
Yeah, for sure, and she hasbeen on this academic journey
for quite some time.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Well, most academic journeys take a while.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yes, so super proud of her Super proud.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
It's nice that it's coming to an end and she can
utilize what she's done andeverything.
Yeah, she's a very nice person,excited to see her again as
well.
Yeah, yeah, very nice person,excited to see her again as well
.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, yeah, so because we're actually in, very
we're over the borderTechnically, yes, technically in
Indiana.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And just over the river is Louisville.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
That's how Kate apparently likes to say it.
And she's been saying it thatthe whole time.
Okay, so I'm Nebraskan, I sayLouisville, that's how Kate
apparently likes to say it andshe's been saying it that the
whole time.
Okay so.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I'm Nebraskan, I say Louisville.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well, most people say Louisville.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah, but the locals, they say Louisville.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Louisville Mm-hmm, it's like they're having a
stroke while they say it.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, or they got marbles in their mouth.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I mean Louisville.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Tomato, tomato but either way.
So we went to a liquor store tosee what local craft beers they
had.
We did.
And you did pick one, and thenI picked something completely
different.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well, I picked the one for you because I've had it
before.
You've never had it before.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
No, and it's not.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
It's not available near where we live.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
It's not available in Wisconsin.
And you're going to have topronounce it for me, because I
still don't.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
You're going to pronounce it first and then I
will correct you.
Yungling, what is?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
it Yungling, yingling , yingling, there it is.
How is Y-U-E-N-G-L-I-N-G Yuling?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
It's not Yuling, it's Yingling.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yingling.
When I think it's Yingling, itwould be Y-I-N-G, not Y-U-E-N.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
But it's not, it's.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Y-U-E-N.
Yingling, what Yingling?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yingling traditional lager, and I believe it was from
Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yes, that sounds right, Hershey Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Pottsville, pottsville, that's right.
Pennsylvania, yeah, they have a.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I don't remember if it's a porter or what it is, but
they have one in collaborationwith Hershey.
It's a chocolate something.
I don't remember exactly what itis because, again, we don't get
it out by us.
They were supposed to partnerup with Molson, coors, miller
and Coors and then COVID hit andthat all kind of went to shit
(03:33):
basically.
So I don't know if that's stillin the works or not, but they
were supposed to expand theirdistribution because they've
been mainly East Coast, up anddown North South East Coast,
whatever, because I think youcan get it in Florida, not sure
you can get it further north.
Not exactly sure how far, butit's been trickling its way west
over the last few years.
(03:54):
I believe it might be availablein Illinois now.
I'm not sure Again, I don'tknow.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I've been out of the business for a little bit.
So apparently it is America'soldest brewery.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I believe that's correct Oldest family run or
something like that it sayssince 1829.
Yeah, which is older thanMiller, which is older than
Budweiser, all that.
So it's been around for a longtime.
I believe it's still withinthat family as well.
It's been through generations,if I'm not mistaken.
(04:26):
I could be wrong, but you likelagers?
It's a traditional lager, so Isaid you should try this one.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
All right, what do you got?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I have a Cold Hammer Highball.
So the brewery, or distillerybrewery, is a Cold Hammer, it's
called a Highball.
It's a bourbon whiskey withsoda water and natural lemon
flavor 7%.
But this one is from what did Isay?
Yeah, this is from Indianapolis, produced by West Fork Whiskey
(04:53):
Company in Indianapolis, indiana.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Very nice.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
So very local to the area there we go.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Mine is a bottle, so it is already open.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I already opened it for her, but cheers to you.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Cheers.
Tastes like a traditional lager.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Tastes like weird.
Yeah, you can taste a littlebit of bourbon in it, but I feel
like I taste more of the sodawater than I want to.
I don't taste a ton of lemon,but yeah, so just a little too
much soda.
It's weird because you get aninitial flavor and then it
bottoms out and then it finisheswith maybe a hint of lemon.
(05:36):
Not very much, so it's reallyquite strange.
But again, maybe, like thebeatbox, it'll get better by the
third one.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Hey, speaking of beatbox, I was told never to
have carbless again.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Speaking of beatbox, no, you've been banned from
having carbless ever again.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I was going to try a third time because my colleague
I told her the situation she'slike no, no, no, you have to try
the pineapple.
And I was like why didn't youtell me this from the start?
I thought you told me to trythe situation.
She's like no, no, no, you haveto try the pineapple.
And I was like why didn't youtell me this from the start?
I thought you told me to trythe traditional.
So I did, and she's like no, no, no, the pineapple, no.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Here's what's going to happen You're going to leave
all the pineapple to your friend, okay, and you're not going to
fucking touch one, because it'sbeen a disaster every single
time that you've tried it, andit's only been twice, and that
is two times too many for you.
Yes, so we're not going to docarbless anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
No carbless.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Sorry to carbless.
If you sponsor the podcast,we'll change our tune instantly.
I'm just kidding.
It's just not for everybody and, like you said, you don't like
that fake sugar, sweetener orwhatever stuff for it.
So no, it's just not for you.
I know it wouldn't be for me,but no more, no more.
No more.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
So I am also in the middle of a cold Under the
weather, so if you hear snifflesor coughing, that is Kate, my
apologies.
Yeah, it happens.
Yes, so we're in IndianaTomorrow.
We're going to go to Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
And you've never been to either.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I've never been this way.
No, most of the time when myfamily traveled, we either went
west and drove a lot I mean, weflew to many places but drove a
lot out to colorado, whateverand we only took one trip, as
far as I know really, to theeast coast and we flew.
So I've never driven throughthis, I've never been to indiana
(07:36):
in my life, I've never been tokentucky and you've never been
to ohio never been to ohio andthat is where our story takes
place.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Oh snap, I know well, look at that, tie it right into
life look at that cheers tothat so we are going to talk
about phoebe and moses phoebeand moses yes, her last name has
changed throughout the historybooks, that seems weird.
(08:06):
Sometimes it's Mosey M-O-S-E-Y,oh so it might just be a
misspelling, or something, yeah,or when people were starting to
get married, they changed it tomake it less immigrant, kind of
a thing did you ever knowanyone who got married that took
on like?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I feel like it's more of a south thing, but only
because I?
I'm thinking of one person inparticular.
Where the female gets married,they take them the, their
husband's name, but then their,their maiden name, becomes their
middle name.
Have you ever seen that?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
um, no, not quite.
I have a friend who her maidenname is already a hyphen name
from her parents.
Yeah, because her parents werelawyers and they both had kept
their names, which makes sense,so hers was hyphened.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
And did she hyphen it again, and then she hyphened it
again.
So she has three last names.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Because she is a doctor now, an oral surgeon or
something now.
So she kept her original nameas well and hyphened it.
Last I heard it's been a littlebit.
That's fine.
It just seems like a lot ofnames?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah, it's a lot of names.
Hey, paging doctor, oh, this istoo long, just come here.
Yeah, I mean, that's a lot ofnames.
Yeah, yeah, I mean I have threelast names, so this is my first
, middle and last name brad is abradley bradley is a last name
yeah I didn't know that alanbradley.
Yeah, who you're not fromwisconsin, so okay, so phoebe
(09:39):
and moses, phoebe and moses orMosey, or whatever iteration you
want to come up with.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Exactly so.
She was born in August in 1860.
Okay, okay, she was born toJacob and Susan Moses, who were
Quakers.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Quakers.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And they migrated from Pennsylvania and they
rented a farm in Drake County,Ohio.
Okay, it's actually right onthe Indiana border.
Oh well, there you go, I knowFancy.
So back then, Jacob Moses, andsee I wrote Mosey in here.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
So you don't know which one to use.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So back then, jacob Moses was the only one bringing
home the bacon.
Sure, he was farming in WillowDell, which is about 14 miles
away from where they were living.
Okay, and he barely made enoughmoney to keep his wife and his
seven kids fed.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Holy Well maybe he shouldn't have had so many kids
yeah, seven kids.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
But they were saving up for some land.
But then Jacob ends up dyingwhen Phoebebe is six years old,
oh dear.
So he was on his way back fromfarming when a blizzard came
through just out of nowhere,just a blizzard, like was it
winter no, it was more likewizard of oz and the tornado
just kind of showed up so theblizzards showed up?
(11:02):
yeah, exactly, exactly so theblizzard came through, he had
frostbite, his hands were frozen, he couldn't speak and he ended
up with pneumonia and justdidn't recover yeah, that, that
makes sense, especially for 1860you said yeah.
So his wife susan was left withabsolutely nothing yeah and
they had to move to a tiny place.
(11:24):
And to make things worse, theireldest daughter, mary jane, got
sick and died of tuberculosis.
Oh geez, yeah.
So susan had to sell everythingthat they owned, even their
milk cow, just to cover theirbills, right, sure so phoebe's
mother, susan, ended upremarrying and he also died soon
(11:46):
, but they had a baby in between, so she's got this other kid.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
She's back to seven.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, jesus yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
So, to try to make ends meet, susan worked as a
nurse at the Drake CountyInfirmary in Ohio during 1866
and 1867.
And it was basically a placefor the elderly, orphans, people
with mental health issues, andshe made about $1.25 a week,
which is about $25 a week Today.
(12:18):
Today.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That is terrible.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So life was tough.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Well, yeah, Getting out of poverty was tough yeah
still is, and yeah, so life wastough Well yeah, getting out of
poverty was tough.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah, still is.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And little Phoebe decided to take her dad's rifle
above the fireplace, loaded itup with so much gunpowder and
aimed it outside at a rabbit ora squirrel, unknown, different
accounts.
Fair enough, off in thedistance, right Fired, hit it
(12:51):
Smack dab in the head.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
So the gun actually kicked back and she broke her
nose.
Oh Jesus, but she got some foodon the table for her family
that day.
Well yeah, she became a hunter,little Miss Phoebe Ann Moses is
Annie Oakley.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I was just gonna say it's gotta be Annie.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Oakley, it's Annie Oakley.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Jesus, you're not excited.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
How did you guess that it was Annie Oakley?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Because Phoebe Ann Moses, Ann Annie Oakley, I just
it's really that quite simple.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I thought it was clever.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Well, if you think about it, time frame wise.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
If you know of her time frame, I suppose and I do.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I mean, I don't know much about her.
I know of the basic time frameand so on, but well, we'll get
into this when we learn more.
But I just put it it together.
That was my guess, but you beatme to it.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
So maybe I should just ask you next time who am I
talking about?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
anyway, it's amy oakley why don't you next time
see if you can guess, make meguess.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
So she was actually called annie instead of phoebe
right growing up, sure, so soAnnie was pretty much always her
name, but I wanted to throw youoff well.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I mean, which didn't work.
If that's her proper name,though, so yes it makes sense to
.
To start with that so yeah, soshe went by.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Annie, moses, okay, okay.
So it wasn't enough that thatAnnie would like put some food
on the table, susan.
Susan was still forced to sendeight-year-old Annie to live at
the infirmary.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Oh really, she had to actually go live there.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yes, she actually took another sister with her.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Did you say in the order of children.
Where is she?
Do you know?
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Because obviously I don't recall, I think she was
third or fourth from the end.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
So basically in the middle, yeah, I think she was.
And which one died?
The oldest?
The oldest died.
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
So Annie and one of her sisters ended up at this
infirmary so there's left mouthsto feed, essentially, which
makes sense.
And she ended up with thesuperintendent there, named
saniel ed eddington, and hiswife nancy, and they taught her
sewing and decorating and theywere pretty good to her, nice um
(15:15):
.
And then in 1870 theyessentially, like they called it
bound her out.
But I, I'm pretty sure, like asan orphan yeah.
Well, well, not quite release,but she was, quote unquote, an
orphan.
So a family came in and askedto like adopt her.
(15:37):
Adopt her essentially.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Was her last name Oakley?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
No.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Just kidding.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
So this local family came in.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Adoption is a a very, very loose term like especially
.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, there wasn't really that kind of thing, right
, but they promised her 50 centsa week and schooling and she
was to come help take care ofthe mother of this family oh, so
the mother had issues notreally oh it was all a ruse.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Oh okay, it was a big fat lie really yeah, I hope you
tell us more about that yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
So the family really wanted a bigger girl so that she
could pump water and cook, andhe was only five foot.
Wow, really.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, she was tiny At that time, or like when she
grew up Period, so she was thatshort even at full growth.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yes, she was five foot and like 100 pounds.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
She was tiny Holy balls.
No, kidding.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
But they took her home and for two years she was
basically a slave to them.
Terrible mental and physicalabuse welts on her back.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
So can I ask real quick, and I don't know if you
probably don't even have thisanswer, however, why did they
want a female that could pumpwater and stuff?
Why wouldn't they get a male?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I think it was because they actually did want
some help with the wife.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
But they just kind of turned it into you're just
going to be a slave To doeverything, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Okay, fair enough.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Then Annie did talk about them making her a slave,
Like she used that terminology.
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I was a slave?
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, sure, and there was even one time the wife
threw her outside barefoot inthe freezing cold for falling
asleep while sewing.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Oh Jesus, she was 12 years old, yeah, I mean, you
fall asleep and you're how old,I mean 39.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Some change.
You're close to the 40s.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
And you fall asleep all the time.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
You need your naps.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
But Annie actually did write her own autobiography.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
She did Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Although it's kind of a ruse, there's really nothing.
There's not a whole lot of factin there.
No, no, everybody pretty muchknows that it was all fake
stories or embellished stories.
It's a work of fiction.
But Annie only called these twopeople the wolves.
She never, ever called them byname.
So we actually don't know whothese two people are.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Couldn't you trace that back somehow, though?
Speaker 1 (18:15):
So there is speculation on two different
families, but it's not clear.
Okay, fair enough.
So she just called them thewolves.
Well, they sounded like it.
But eventually she was able torun away and she went back to
her mother who had married for athird time.
Oh geez, did she have anotherkid?
No, I don't think so.
Oh, thank God.
And when she returned shestarted hunting and selling what
(18:38):
she got to hotels and localgrocery stores to help pay for
the bills.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Okay, can I ask another question before I forget
it?
Mm-hmm, what happened to hersister that went to the
infirmary with her?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
She ended up getting married, I think eventually,
like she came out fine.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Okay, so like she didn't get adopted or whatever,
no, no, okay, no, she came outfine.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I think she ended up getting married.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Okay, I was just curious, because it's like she
ran away and it's like whathappened to her so well she ran
away after she got adopted,whatever.
Yeah, yeah exactly so.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
annie was paying bills with all these, these
animals that she's catchingright.
She was able to pay off their$200 mortgage, oh wow, and she
was only 15.
That's impressive.
So impressed by her shooting,mr Jack Frost.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Is this a Christmas story?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
all of a sudden, he happened to own a Cincinnati
hotel, and he actually had beenone to have purchased her game
in the past.
Sure, he arranged for ashooting contest.
Oh, mm-hmm, fancy, it was aman's sport and shooting
contests were a favorite at thistime Right.
So on Thanksgiving in 1875, shewas to face Frank E Butler.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
And she was 15 in 1875, right, you said.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yes, this is 1875.
Yes, she was 15 and it was 1875.
Right, you said yes, this is1875.
Yes, she is 15.
Yes, yes, um, and mr butler isan irish immigrant and he is a
known marksman.
He was touring the countrydoing shows, uh, and he was
known to take on like localcompetitors.
Okay, so he bet Frost, thehotel manager, a hundred dollars
(20:29):
.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
That's a lot of money at that time, a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
A hundred dollars that he could beat any local
sharpshooter.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
And so he brought out little.
So, jack, Frost brought out.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Annie so Butler shows up with hundreds of people
watching and out walks this15-year-old five-foot girl.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
He's probably like are you fucking kidding me?
Yeah carrying this big rifleProbably as big as her.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
That's funny because, yeah, I mean that gun couldn't
have been much different size.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
No.
Obviously lengthwise, but sothey took turns, shooting like
clay pigeons, one after another,shoot one, shoot one, shoot two
, shoot two.
Sure, one after another.
After another.
Right 25th pole comes.
Butler missed, but not annieshe got it in the bag, she won
(21:20):
the match so I think he was 29at the time.
Oh, the guy Butler.
Wow.
So Frank Butler always claimedthat he had lost the second that
he saw her.
He actually ended up falling inlove with her Of course he did.
He gave her tickets to his nextshow, and as part of his
(21:41):
shooting act he had a Frenchpoodle named George, and Annie
loved George, imagine that.
So Frank's way of wooing herwas to send flowers and cards
pretending they were from George, like signed Love George.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
So this 29-year-old is courting a 15-year-old.
Yes, that seems a little bitweird, and they got married the
next year.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Oh, I mean, she was 16.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Age of consent, I guess.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
But I love their story because it was a man's
sport.
He was really good at what hedoes and she shows him up and
he's like bring it, let's dothis, I will support you and he
was really really sweet to herokay so um annie and frank
(22:30):
finally started performingtogether um in 1882.
So for the next six years umbutler and his then shooting
partner john graham performed ona variety circuit, and ann
Annie would like stay in thebackground and just kind of help
out when needed so basicallysince they got married until she
turned 22 when she startedactually performing with him
(22:53):
yeah she was kind of helping outyeah
gotcha okay so, while inSpringfield, ohio, um John
Graham, the partner, he ended upfalling ill and annie stepped
in oh so she would hold uptargets for for butler.
But butler kept missing.
This day he just kept missing.
And there was a spectator inthe crowd who heckled and
(23:17):
heckled him and said just letthe girl shoot then and so she
did so butler was like be myguest.
Let's do this.
Knowing full well what wasgoing to happen.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
He knew she was going to kill it.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, and so Annie hits the target every single
time, and then it became aButler and Annie bonanza.
No more Graham.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Poor Graham, I know Shouldn't have got sick that day
, I guess.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
But Annie needed a stage name.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Come in Oakley.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
She chose Oakley, supposedly after her paternal
grandmother.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
But other sources say it was a town nearby.
Oh, like the name of a townnearby, and she just kind of
pulled it off Either way.
So when the butlers hit theroad, traveling entertainment
was a really big thing.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Oh yeah, especially back then.
Come on, that was huge, hugeentertainment.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, there were circuses.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I was just going to say that.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Theater companies vaudeville.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yeah, all that stuff that toured around because they
could make a killing.
Really yeah, all that stuffthat toured around because they
could make a killing reallybecause that's that you couldn't
netflix and chill or whateverthe kids say these days, exactly
so.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
They'd play anywhere from huge arena to tiny smoky
bars, and for annie and frank,they, they loved the noisy
trains and the cheap hotels andmoving all the time, and so
annie and frank's shooting actcould literally between be oh
yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Did he have a stage name too, or was?
Speaker 1 (24:53):
it, it was frank butler, okay, yeah because why?
Speaker 2 (24:57):
why did she need a stage name, but he didn't?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
it was.
I don't think it was reallysomething that I read.
It was just something that shewanted, so it wasn't a part of
your research I was hoping toget away from that that's never
going away so their shooting act.
Yes could literally between bebetween a singer with dirty
jokes right and someone withalmost no clothes on.
(25:22):
Yeah, that's wild.
These variety shows were amen's thing, so there's lots of
innuendo, yep, bit of skin alittle ankle but this, exactly
but.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
But annie oakley was a quaker girl from ohio in the
victorian era were theyoriginally from pennsylvania, or
was that just her?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
parents okay, and she was terrified as being seen as
improper.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Sure no, she wanted to do the right thing, Exactly
and she decided to make herselfdifferent both in how she acted
and dressed.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Presented herself Exactly so she started wearing a
full coverage outfit, a calflength skirt, long sleeves and
leggings Right and that becameher signature look long sleeves
and leggings right and thatbecame her signature look.
She sewed her own costumes,which was important to her
because she wanted to controlhow people saw her, sure, and
she could really move freely inthem.
And she looked respectable,even a little bit childlike
(26:17):
because of how petite she waswell, I mean being only five
foot and you know 100 poundssoaking wet yeah you're gonna
look young because of that yeah,even if you're in your 20s.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So and frank found out pretty fast that annie was
the main attraction well, I mean, she was different because,
like you said, this was a man'sthing yeah a lot of men went to
these.
I'm sure women did too righteven kids, for that matter,
probably, but this was sodifferent for what they were
used to seeing, like I want togo see that girl shoot because
(26:49):
we don't get to see that it's,yeah, it's different.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
It's completely different shooting.
It's not a man shooting no.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So it totally makes sense why she would become the
main attraction over uh, what'sthis for?
Damn?
The husband's first name frankfrank jesus, I keep forgetting
it, frank butler yeah, yeah, butyeah, I mean nothing against
him.
No, nothing against him, it'sjust, this is a new fangled
thing.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Let's look at this and he was so good to her, he
became her assistant which iscrazy.
Yeah, isn't it funny how itjust flipped around exactly like
their, their traditional gendernorms were flipped on the ted
and they loved it.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
And again for being in the 1880s.
I mean that's wild, becausethat just wasn't a normal thing.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah.
So he knew that she kind of hadthat it factor and didn't want
to mess with it and he loved herand he was also a very smart
individual.
Well, it's very marketable.
Exactly, yes, she was prettyclassy and he also knew what it
took to succeed, because he wasalready successful.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
He was doing it.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
For sure.
So in 1884, they got along-term gig with Sells
Brothers Circus S-E-L-L-S.
Sells.
It was a pretty huge deal andthey finally had some like
steady income with this gig.
Sure, um, circus life was astruggle and the money was kind
(28:09):
of hit or miss um.
So when their season wrapped upin new orleans that december
they were looking to go back tothose like vaudevillian cheap
motels and yeah, doing theirlittle sideshows basically.
And basically dealing with someof these, like rougher
sexualized characters.
Sure, but then, right as thatcircus gig ended, buffalo Bill's
(28:35):
Wild West show rolled into town.
Yep.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I knew that she'd do it for that.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
So perfect timing.
They asked Cody for a job.
William Cody, yep.
So Annie was super excited.
It seemed like a dream to her.
But Cody already had a bignamed shooter.
His name was Captain Bogardus,okay, and he was already a huge,
huge star, sure.
(29:01):
So he did tell Annie no, likeit wasn't about her being a
woman.
They had other women in theshow.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
They had their thing already.
Yeah, the position's filled.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
The position's filled Exactly Sure.
So they did have to go back totheir variety circuit then Yep.
But then luck changed andBuffalo Bill's steamboat sank on
the Mississippi.
It sounds horrible, but CaptainBogardus lost all of his gear
and equipment and ended upquitting.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Man, I can't afford to replace this.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Probably.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
So Frank and Annie heard about this and immediately
wired Cody asking for a tryout.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Oh sure, why wouldn't you?
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Can I also ask another question real quick, you
being from Nebraska, have youbeen to the Buffalo Bill Cody
blah, blah, blah museum thingthat's in?
I'm thinking of the right thing.
Maybe not museum, but Fuck,where the hell is it?
Sarah would know.
All right, continue, I'll tryand think of it while we're
(30:08):
going through this.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
I know there was like a pioneer museum that was close
to where I lived in Minden,Nebraska.
How?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
many different places did you live in Nebraska?
It was close to where I livedin Menden, Nebraska.
How many different places didyou live in Nebraska?
Speaker 1 (30:19):
It was close to where I lived.
I lived in three places, sothat's.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Okay, anyways.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Bill was hesitant because Annie actually asked for
a bit of money.
Well, I mean, she should have Idon't think this small petite
woman could handle nightly shows.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Why?
Because she's petite.
Yeah, I don't know, good lord.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
But he agreed to a test.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
So, while practicing in an empty stadium, Annie
noticed a man in a fancy hatwatching her.
Oh, a fancy hat he rushed overshouting about how great she was
and asked for photos.
It was cody's manager, natesalisbury.
Nope, salisbury, salisbury, Ilike salisbury oh, that's funny
(31:09):
it was cody's manager, natesalisbury, not salisbury, and he
hired her right then and therehe said no questions asked,
pretty much it's like.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
So she didn't even actually get to do the test, he
just hired her well, I mean, shewas testing, oh, yeah, and he
was watching her.
Yeah, and he's like, oh my god,this is amazing, you're hired.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
so buffalo bill's wild west show was a huge
spectacle.
It was part theater, partcircus, part rodeo, and it gave
people in the rapidlyindustrializing East a taste of
the old frontier in the West.
And they loved it, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
They ate that shit up yes.
Because a lot of those peopleon the East never got to
experience that so it's likeholy crap, look at this other
world that exists out there, butwe can't afford to go.
But it can come to us.
Yeah, they're going to eat thatshit up, yeah, yeah.
And the funny thing is, it wasso not what it was.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Well, the whole idea of the American ruggedness and
the adventure cowboys andIndians were at the time it's
okay to say that it was how itwas but that whole era was just
disappearing.
So yeah, correct, this buffalobill wild west show was like a
living piece of history.
(32:28):
Yeah, it was keeping the pastand he brought it to life.
Yeah, basically, exactly so youwould see stage coaches and
soldiers and Native Americansand cowboys, horses, cattle and
even buffalo on his stage and itwas crazy lively version of a
Wild West show.
And that's where Annie Oakley,this girl from Ohio, started in
(32:50):
April 1885.
And even though she startedsmall, people loved her.
So when annie would come ontothe stage she wouldn't just walk
in, she would practically likeskip in blowing kisses and like
having this little persona on ashow, exactly for sure exactly
(33:11):
she was this sweet little girllooking girl with a powerful gun
.
She started with easy targetsglass balls that exploded with
feathers in it.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Okay, I don't know so like the feathers would go
flying, kind of thing Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
But glass too.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
So that doesn't seem safe, but whatever.
Well, I mean, it was the 1880s.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
They used glass balls a lot.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Them times were wild.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
But Frank would toss them up into the air one, two,
three at a time.
She would shoot them and shewould shoot all of them.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah, that seems even more dangerous now.
Yeah, I know Glasses flowing upin the air.
Hey everybody, look, Make sureyour eyes are open for this
glass to fall into it.
Yeah, this is a brilliant idea.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Let's market this.
She would literally hit allthese glass bulbs before they
hit the ground, right, right.
She'd go up to four, five, sixbulbs at a time.
Her act got faster and fastertargets shattering everywhere.
She shot with both hands.
Even she was ambidextrous withher shotgun upside down.
(34:12):
She would fire sideways.
She would use a mirror.
Does she ever hold it like agangster in the movies sideways.
I mean that would be like liketop heavy kind of a thing like
I'm I'm joking but one of herfamous tricks was splitting a
playing card held sideways orshooting through the heart right
(34:34):
, yeah I've actually I thinkI've seen a picture or something
like that.
Sometimes she would miss onpurpose and pout To kind of like
play it up Uh-huh, becauseobviously she'd always hit her
target, so that was part of heract.
So then she would just kind oflike quote-unquote, redeem
herself.
But it was all part of the act.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
As soon as Annie was getting rave reviews, cody moved
her up in the show, so thatseason 150 000 people across
america saw something completelynew a woman shooting like a man
, but with this sweet, innocentvibe.
That was a little bit sexy too.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
That's a lot of people for back then it was To
be able to see her.
That's crazy yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
And because she was such an incredible shot.
What made her reallyinteresting was how she blended
that with the image of a goodAmerican woman.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
And she could be all demure and ladylike, even a
little girlish, but also reallyattractive yeah, and then
playful and all that yes and herfame exploded when the wild
west show was on staten islandin 1886 in new york.
Half a million people went tosee the show.
Holy crap and annie became justas famous as wild bill himself.
(35:53):
I'm sure Mm-hmm.
Buffalo Bill, wild Bill is.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Hickok.
My bad Buffalo Bill, that's allright.
Buffalo Bill Wild West Show.
Yeah, I think we screwed thatup a couple times maybe, but my
bad, that's all right.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Buffalo Bill and Wild Bill are two different Bills
and both from the old timey time.
Yes, so we are talking aboutBuffalo Bill and his Wild West
show.
Do you know where Wild BillHickok died?
In Deadwood.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yes, so the other one is from Deadwood, south Dakota.
Yeah, so my bad, my bad, that'sall right, that's all right.
So Frank took over Annie'spublicity, playing up the East's
obsession with the West Sure,and he called her the Girl of
the Western Plains, even thoughshe was from Ohio.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
But they didn't need to know that.
No, just like her name was inOakley.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
It's a character they built for this show.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, exactly, so it makes sense.
And then she met Sitting Bull.
Ooh, yes.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
There you go.
He was pretty famous.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, sitting Bull saw her rifle skills and
eyesight and thought that shehad some kind of a special gift.
So he was so impressed withOakley's skills that he offered
her $65 for a photograph of himand her together, and that was
about over $2,000 today.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
I mean, that's pretty good for a photograph, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yeah, you probably got weird instagram influencers.
He got, or he, he gave her thename little sure shot, little
sure shot.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
There's a really good uh beastie boy song called sure
shot yeah, well, that umnickname.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Traveled with her wherever she went Sure.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
I'm not surprised at that, Especially when you get it
from Sitting Bull.
That's fantastic, yes.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
So in March 1887, Buffalo Bill's Wild West show
took off for London to performfor Queen Victoria's big
celebration.
Their ship was literally afloating zoo.
I bet it was Animals everywhere.
It's kind of like Noah's Arkyes, zoo, I bet it was Animals
everywhere.
It's kind of like Noah's Ark.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Yes, Headed to England.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
So along on this trip is a new girl.
Oh, lillian Smith.
She was a 15-year-oldsharpshooter from California.
Oh really, mm-hmm.
Lillian was good and Bill Codyput out a $10,000 challenge to
(38:23):
anyone who could beat her.
She was that good.
Did Annie take that challenge?
Well Well, lillian wasn'texactly shy about her skill.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
And she was basically bragging to everybody that
annie was in for really, yeah,so she was a bit of a wild card.
She liked hanging out with thecowboys and wore flashy tops
saying she was the best and itreally bugged annie because
she's like the demure, she'sjust lady easy going too.
(38:56):
At this time annie was 26 oldmade by those lily was 15 annie,
actually started shaving offyears of her age to compete with
her, to stay competitive.
Yeah, that's terrible.
So during research, her age isjust a big jumbled mess.
(39:18):
Nobody knows exactly what yearshe was, this age or that,
because she was born in 1860.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
So I feel like we can , I feel like we can determine
how old she was.
So how would she shave yearsoff like hey, I just turned 25.
And then like two months later,hey, I just turned 25.
I mean what, how did she?
Speaker 1 (39:39):
do basically um.
So I mean, there wasn't, therewere no receipts back then
obviously that's.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
That's the point no fact checkers how about you just
don't fucking tell your age I?
Speaker 1 (39:47):
mean that works too seriously.
But she was tiny, she could getaway with it well exactly.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
She probably could say she was 15, like what was
the other one's name now?
Speaker 1 (39:57):
lillian, lillian, that's right.
So on may 9th 1887 the wildwest show premiered in london
and annie and lillian were bothbilled as stars, right, 10 000
people were in attendance.
That's a lot of people, forback then.
Oscar wilde was there.
What queen victoria?
(40:18):
That was wild.
And german kaiser wilhelm ii?
Oh sure, yes yeah who basicallywas involved with like the
starting and the ending of worldwar one?
Yep so how'd that go?
So the Kaiser actually askedAnnie to be in the show and he
(40:46):
held out a cigar.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Actually I think he held it in his hand.
He held it in his hand and hadAnnie like shoot off the ash the
tip of it or whatever.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah so whatever.
Yeah so, whatever, whatever.
So the English loved the ideaof America as this place of
freedom, quite different.
The show and Annie kind ofrepresented that.
And Annie was especiallypopular because she was this
Wild West girl, but she was alsoa proper Victorian lady, right?
(41:16):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (41:16):
correct, and that's probably why they liked her a
lot.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Yeah, and Queen Victoria came to see the show
and she called Annie and Lillianover and Lillian of course,
showed off her rifle, whichreally ticked off Annie.
Annie really didn't likeLillian and her bragging.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
She was bragging showing off whatever where
Annie's like no, just let mywork do the Exactly the talking
yeah exactly, exactly, you'reright, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
So then there was a shooting competition in
Wimbledon, oh, and all the topAmerican shooters were invited.
Lillian Smith bombed Really,she was bad.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Was there any explanation as to why she did so
bad?
Speaker 1 (42:02):
No, not that I had read, sure, there was no really
explanation, okay, but Annieshowed up and killed it of
course, because she's annieoakley yeah.
So she totally showed up,lillian, and became the talk of
the town, and some even said shewas more popular than buffalo
bill, like she was back inamerica I mean I would say, and
(42:24):
bill didn't even completecompete.
No, he's like no, just let theladies take it.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Well I mean ladies first, I guess.
But that's kind of odd for thattime that he wouldn't even try
except for things got somethings got tense between annie
and buffalo bill how come?
Speaker 1 (42:41):
because she was doing better than him.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Well, she, again newfangled thing, shiny new toy,
whatever you want to say,whatever weird phrase.
So yeah, I mean it makes sense,though, because he was an older
guy.
I don't know how old was he.
When did you see any age for?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
him if I did.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
I didn't write it down, and that's okay, yeah, but
you know, older guys they've.
They've seen this shit, theywant to again.
A lot of men go to these thingsand whatever they want to see
the nice, new, shiny little,pretty looking, well-dressed
girl that can shoot the shit outof anything.
So, yeah, I mean I get it.
The fact that he let them bughim, I guess Probably the Times
(43:25):
probably.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
But either way, and Annie and Lillian, their rivalry
also kind of came to a head.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
So a friend of Lillian's went to a publication
okay and told the newspaper thatlillian was the star oh my god,
that's scandalous.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I know, I mean okay but they like removed annie from
the publication, like alltogether, so okay why the fuck
would you like this friend of aperson comes to this publication
and be like nudge, nudge, wink,wink.
She's the real star.
Why would they just take thatfor like, oh my god, you're
(44:06):
right, we should remove thisperson completely because
they're fucking stupid they careabout slander and libel and
fact checking.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Well, that's like our media today.
So because of this publication,it caused a rift.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Of course, as it should have honestly.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Frank, her husband, and Nate Salisbury, the manager.
They defended Annie, butBuffalo Bill stayed silent, so
he just didn't want to be a partof it, basically.
But Annie reportedly toned downher act to avoid overshadowing
Cody at this time.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
She was trying not to show up on his show.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Yeah, so come that October she decided to leave the
show and return to vaudeville,essentially the variety shows.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
So they went back to the nothing.
Yes, that's.
That's gotta be tough afterbeing in the limelight.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
And they were together for like two and a half
years.
Yeah, I mean quite a long timefor a lot of touring all that
whatever and so when peopleasked annie like what happened
between you and bill cody, shewould simply say the reasons
were too long to explain I'mgonna start using that she, she,
(45:29):
literally like didn't talkabout anybody behind their back,
like oh nope it, it's just toolong to explain, Is what?
Speaker 2 (45:37):
it is no, I get that.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
She did the very diplomatic, whatever word you
want to throw in there kind ofway to do it In 1888, she and
Frank tried vaudeville, butaudience wanted more singers and
dancers, not shooters, sure,and he worked for other Wild
West shows.
(46:00):
But Nate Salisbury, the manager, was reportedly threatening
anyone who tried to hire herBecause he wanted her back.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Oh well, that's a dick move, though, because I
mean that just fucked her.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Yes, but she ended up coming back.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Oh dear.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
She came back in 1889 okay and essentially they said
that the past issues wereresolved, like there was okay,
whatever says you yeah, but okay, yeah, um, so she returned to
buffalo Bill's Wild West show inParis.
(46:35):
Oh, she was invited to Paris.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
They were already over there.
Yes, this is obviously not thesame time as they were over
there prior right.
This is a second time over toLondon.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
Okay, and so she joined the crew again.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Yes, already over there, okay already over there,
and what could have been part ofthe deal for Annie to accept
this was that Lillian Smith wasnot invited.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
How come this was not part of your research?
What?
How come she wasn't invited?
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Because Annie and Lillian had a rivalry.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
I get that.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
So it's speculated In the research that I read.
It's speculated.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
They didn't invite Lillian because they invited
Annie back.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
And Annie said don't invite Lillian, and then I'll
come back.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Oh, okay, so do we ever find out what happened to
Lillian?
Speaker 1 (47:28):
No.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Because that's not part of your research.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Exactly.
I don't give a shit, I didn'task that.
So over 30 million peopleattended this paris expedition.
30 million expeditionexposition did you say 30
million?
Speaker 2 (47:44):
yep what you?
That is a lot of people I meanthat's half of the population of
Europe.
When the Black Death killedthem.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Remember that.
Look at you.
I know this is over a course oftime.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
I get that, thank you Just bringing it back
Referencing old podcast episodes.
Stay tuned.
History Buffoons what up?
Speaker 1 (48:10):
So Annie became a sensation Again.
She received offers and she hadfictional stories spread about
her Sure Dime novels Exaggerated, Can you?
Speaker 2 (48:24):
try that one more time.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Exaggerated, nope, exacerbated, nope Exaggerated.
There is the word Wow.
Exaggerated her past.
That is a tough word.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yes, can you spell it real quick.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
No, yes.
Can you spell it real quick?
No, okay and go.
So yes.
So Her legend grew.
Oh, dear Legends rise Withstories of her saving a prince
shooting a cigarette from PrinceWilhelm's mouth.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
When in fact, he held it in his hand.
So she and Frank startedtelling tall stories publicly
sure I mean just to build themystique and all that, yeah, and
part of her autobiography isall of these tall tales, yeah,
so in 1893, buffalo bills show.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Despite not being invited to the chicago world
fair, they were across thestreet and drew bigger crowds
than the world fair well, yeah,because they're more popular.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
I mean that world's fair was popular too.
I mean all the world's fair.
Really they don't do thoseanymore, right no and I don't
remember what the last one was,because I I mean, that's why the
Eiffel Tower was built.
Was it For the World's Fair inParis, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Yeah, we'll have to do an episode on that.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yeah, we should just do World's Fair, just like of
the history, of that orsomething.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Yeah, so 1893 was when people started really
missing the Wild West andBuffalo Bill's show became the
symbol of the good old days.
Yeah, show became the symbol ofthe good old days.
Yes, the chicago exposition wasall about new tech, electrical
lighting and edison's earlymovies.
Yes, in 1894, edison filmedannie.
(50:04):
Oh, really, he filmed annie,okay, and you can see it on
youtube.
Oh, they, actually it's like 25or 26 seconds long, so I'll
have it in our social media, butshe's potentially like one of
the first people on like rollingfilm is, is it pretty grainy?
yes, but you can clearly see aperson someone is like tossing
(50:28):
up something pigeon clay pigeonsor something.
She's like shooting it shoot.
Oh yeah, shoot, shoot, shootlike awesome.
Yeah, round by round by roundit was the first viral video.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
It could have been.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
I mean no, but yes so by with these movies coming out
, that was pretty much a signthat the wild west shows were on
their way out.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Well, they were dying because they didn't need the
that anymore.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
They could go a different medium, basically yeah
so in the early 1900s movieswould be like the new western
entertainment, yep um.
But in the 1890s annie andbuffalo bill were still huge,
playing in tons of cities I betin 1901 they were all on like a
train convoy.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
There was like a first train, second train, third
train.
I don't know if they were carsor individual trains.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Oh sure.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
But there was a train coming from the other direction
.
Who like split off knowing thatthe train was coming?
Speaker 2 (51:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
But he thought it was only the one.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
Oh shit.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
And so he came back onto the main track and hit the
train that Annie was on.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
Did, she die.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
No, that train crash killed most of their animals.
Oh shit, really Like over ahundred horses, holy balls.
Yeah, like it was awful.
No person died, but there wereplenty of injuries that is wild,
that no one, no person, diedyeah all those animals did.
(52:06):
That's crazy um annie had a badback.
After that she had surgery onit like six times after that
incident?
Speaker 2 (52:13):
yeah, oh, could you imagine getting surgery on your
back in 1890s six differenttimes?
Speaker 1 (52:18):
I mean, I couldn't imagine doing that now and it's
2025 1890 holy fuck, no, thankyou yeah, and so she decided to
leave the show.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
But no, you said 1901 , I'm sorry, 1901, yeah, early
either way.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
Early 1900s yeah, fuck that yeah and so she
decided to leave the show.
But even after just one year,she she tried to get back into
the spotlight and she agreed tobe in a play oh dear.
So she left the wild west showand now she's trying to be an
actress okay so the play waswritten about her.
It was fictional but surewestern heroine performing her
(52:53):
shooting tricks just keep inmind, her book was also fiction
too but she was 42 and shewanted a new career, sure she's
different avenue stream so onAugust 11th, revenue stream.
August 11th 1903.
Headlines appeared Chicagonewspapers a man named 1903.
(53:18):
Okay, headlines appearedChicago newspapers.
A man named Hurst in particularreported she'd stolen pants to
buy cocaine what I don't know.
So they're accusing AnnieOakley of stealing pants to buy
cocaine with yes, I don't knowhow that works, but that's what
(53:44):
it was, fucking wild.
And the Associated Press spreadthe story, devastating Annie.
She had worked hard to maintainher, her reputation, well, sure
, so obviously the story wasfalse.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
The woman that they arrested was an annie oakley
impersonator see, and that isthat's the problem with
obviously media, whether it'stoday or back then, obviously
different problems today, thenback then fucking an
impersonator and they just blamethe real one.
Oh, you're fucking idiots andthe damage was done Well that's
(54:21):
the problem, because even thoughit wasn't true, it was this
impersonator, nobody fuckingcares, especially back in 1901
or 1903.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
No, if Annie Oakley stole pants, then Annie Oakley
stole pants.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
As far as anyone's concerned doesn't matter,
Because even if the next thingis written, it doesn't matter.
They saw the first thing.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
So that is wild.
And she knew that this woulddestroy her.
So she was personally insulted.
But she was also a savvybusinesswoman, right, and knew
the potential cost and waswilling to fight to clear her
name.
Sure.
So she sent out telegramsdemanding the papers retract the
(55:03):
story.
Most of them did and apologized.
But it wasn't enough.
She sued every single paperthat ran that story, and I'm
sure there was quite a few still.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Do you have a number 55.
Holy balls, how much did yousue each one for?
Speaker 1 (55:25):
I don't know the exact number but, I, do have
something at the end.
Okay, so she did spend her ownmoney on lawyers to fight this,
and she spent six years assumingthese 55 papers Wow, that's a
lot of years.
I mean, she worked hard tobuild her reputation.
(55:48):
She wasn't going to letsomebody strip it away.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
Just a fucking blink of an eye basically, especially
when it's just a fuckingimpersonator.
And they're yeah, basically,especially when it's just a
fucking impersonator, andthey're like, nope, it's the
real one, let's slander herfucking name.
It's like do some fuckingjournalistic research, dumb
fucks.
I mean it's kind of horseshitthat yeah, no, this is annie
oakley.
Yeah, let's print it yeah don'teven put it to the editor, just
(56:13):
fucking run with it thenewspaper Mongrel Hurst, mongrel
, hurst, mongrel.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
Wait, what?
What's his first name?
Hurst?
I don't know his first name.
It was Hurst.
It was his name, but he ownedone of the Chicago papers.
But what's the Mongrel Mongrel.
Speaker 2 (56:31):
Mongrel, yeah, what do you the?
Speaker 1 (56:32):
tycoon, a tycoon.
Speaker 2 (56:34):
Is that his first name?
Speaker 1 (56:35):
No, it's his last name.
It's an adjective Like a tycoon.
Speaker 2 (56:40):
Oh Okay, I guess I've never really heard that Shit
now I gotta find out.
Oh, it's okay, let's just runwith it, let's make it a new one
.
Speaker 1 (56:49):
Yeah Mongol.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
Mongloid.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Apparently, mongol is a supervillain In DC Comics.
Is he really?
Yup, okay, all right.
Did I just make something up.
I'm hoping so, because Ithought it meant actual
something.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
It's okay.
Speaker 1 (57:13):
Or mogul.
Maybe it's mogul.
Maybe there's no N that's it.
I mean a mogul.
It's a mogulul, maybe it'smogul.
Maybe there's no n that's it.
I mean a mogul.
It's a mogul, not a mogul, amogul is an important or
powerful person, especially inthe motion picture or media
industry.
I know, okay, I know I we gotthere.
Hey, I learned something newfolks.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
I don't know, that might be the front runner for
the episode title.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
Mongol or Mogul Mongol?
Oh my gosh, that was prettygreat.
So Hurst tried to dig up dirton her.
Couldn't find a freaking thing.
Speaker 2 (57:50):
Of course not.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
Because she's lovely.
She's a lovely person.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
She's a good little two shoes, you know persona not
in a bad no no I know that's whyI didn't.
I, as soon as I said I'm likewrong context because, no, it
wasn't in a bad way, she wasjust that's.
She was a good person.
She was a good person and she,yeah, would fabricate some
stories for her persona,whatever.
(58:14):
But so what?
Look at all the people that dotoday.
I mean, so what?
Speaker 1 (58:18):
so annie prepared for each trial, presenting,
treating the courtroom like herown stage.
She denied everything right andshe presented herself as a
respectable lady.
Sure, she was super careful incourt, right, she dressed in
black.
Oh, she wore small diamondearrings.
(58:38):
With her hair up, she correctedfalse statements and she was
all about courtesy.
Okay, and when asked how thearticle affected her, she said
that she felt like she couldnever perform again.
Speaker 2 (58:51):
Well, right, because her brand is tarnished.
Speaker 1 (58:59):
The jury sided with her.
Speaker 2 (58:59):
She won 54 out of 55 cases did it say why she didn't
win the 55th one?
Speaker 1 (59:03):
no, but hearse the mogul hearse the mongol he had
to pay 27 000 to her to Good.
Every other thing was like less.
That was like the biggest Sure.
But after paying all of herlawyers she actually lost money.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
I mean, that's usually how it works.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Even today, that's how it works, but she got her
name cleared right.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
Unless you don't have to pay until unless they win,
and then you still lose money.
Speaker 1 (59:30):
So, with the lawsuits finally over and he's 50 at
this time she went back to theWild West show Again.
She was still drawing in majorcrowds, but her popularity
started to wane because, I mean,the times were changing Well,
right, and by 1910, she was kindof seen as like a throwback, a
(59:51):
way back, you know.
Speaker 2 (59:52):
Well, I mean she is 50.
Speaker 1 (59:56):
I mean that's like 20 years over to life expectancy
back then but it's more like butno, that's something that
happened back in the day well,yeah, because even though I mean
she's born in 1860, this is1910, 50 years ago.
Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
So she started, you know, 35 years prior.
Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
That's a long fucking time and movies were taking
over, so like 100 becauseshooting wasn't necessary.
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
No, it wasn't the gimmick, it was at the time.
When it was they, they made itpopular because let's go to the
theater and see this movie insilence.
Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
So so she retired in 1913.
Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
So she would have been 53.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
But she wasn't really cut out for staying at home.
Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
For retirement.
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Yeah, frank joked that she was actually a terrible
housekeeper.
Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
So did she go be a Walmart, greeter.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
What, what, that's what a lot of people do.
They sold their house and theyended up just traveling and they
shot and they hunt and they didshows and whatever else.
So Annie didn't exactlydisappear, um, and she also used
her fame to encourage women tobe active and taught tons of
women how to shoot, sure, andshe was a big believer in women
(01:01:06):
using guns for self-defense,saying that they should have
them at home and carry them whenthey're out and about and alone
.
Yeah, and even showed them howto hide a gun under an umbrella
who doesn't know that?
so even when she retired, anniewas a mix of being a strong
woman and a proper lady, and sheoffered to lead sharpshooters
(01:01:27):
in the war as well.
World war one right and afterworld war one broke out, annie
said if I would have shot theKaiser way back when.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
I might have saved the lives of several million
soldiers.
Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Isn't that messed up?
Yeah, so after World War Ibroke out.
Annie said if I shot the KaiserI might have saved the lives of
several million soldiers Wild.
I didn't know then that hewould swing the iron fist and
shake the universe.
Perhaps it was well for both ofus that humans lack foresight.
According to Frank Butler, hesat down and wrote a letter to
(01:02:06):
Kaiser Wilhelm saying that AnnieOakley wanted to repeat the
shot, and the Kaiser neverreplied.
Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
She's like she's going gonna assassinate me, oh
dear.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
That's kind of cool.
So in 1922 she did a charityshow.
Oh, charity um, but then shehad a car accident.
After that she had a car.
She was, yeah, she had a caraccident, okay, and it left her
with lasting injuries.
Oh sure, she actually did meltdown a lot of her medals and she
donated the money, so she'skind of like putting her affairs
(01:02:41):
in order Just the medals thatshe won through competitions and
stuff.
Yeah, okay, yeah, that's crazyAt 66, she was kind of weakening
.
Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
There was some speculation that she was
suffering from some leadpoisoning with all the shot that
she had over the years,especially back then, I can see
that Even if she put a bullet inher mouth for a second or
whatever, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
So she ended up dying in her sleep on November 3rd
1926.
And at the time Frank Butlerwasn't at home.
They have spent all this timetogether.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
And he missed out on her dying and he wasn't home
when she died.
Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
That's sad he was so distraught by her death that he
stopped eating and he died 18days later in Michigan.
Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
That happens a lot, but they were together for a
long time, I mean.
Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
It was said 50 years, so Well so.
Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
I didn't do the math.
She died when 1926.
So she would have been 66.
He was 14 years older than herwhen they started courting and
all that.
So yeah, he would have been.
You said 66 for her.
Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
Yeah, and they married in 76.
Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Yeah, because she would have been 16.
So he probably would have been30 at the time 29, I think is
what they said.
I thought that's when they wentEither way.
29, 30.
Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Sorry, no, you're right.
30.
Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Doesn't matter.
14 years basically, so he wouldhave been 80 years old.
Yeah, so that's wild that hemade it to 80 and she died at 66
.
Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
He wasn't even there to see her go.
That's sad.
Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
But she was cremated and he was buried next to her
ashes in Greenville, ohio.
Oh, okay, so there is a vastcollection of Annie's personal
possessions, performancememorabilia and firearms on a
permanent exhibit in the garstmuseum in the national annie
oakley center in greenville,ohio.
(01:04:40):
Okay, she has been inductedinto the traps shooting hall of
fame oh, that's cool thenational cowgirl museum and hall
of fame in fort worth, texasthat's funny the national
women's hall of fame, the ohiowomen's hall of fame and,
randomly, new jersey's hall offame.
What I don't know okay, but thatis the story of phoebe and
(01:05:05):
moses, aka annie oakley akaphoebe and mosey.
Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
Yeah, that's funny.
Yeah, as soon as you like.
Yeah, that's funny.
Yeah, as soon as you like.
Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
We're starting to say the time frame, phoebe, and I'm
like, no, this is annie oakley.
Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
I just I could just tell, and which is awesome,
because I I didn't know a lotabout, of that, about her yeah
um, obviously I've known of her,of course.
Um, and especially with the, uh, I want to mix up the like you
did for the wild bill, hickokand the buffalo bill coney um,
see, that's what I was probablymessing up with, that nebraska
(01:05:42):
thing.
I know I'm thinking of something.
I'm pretty sure it's innebraska sarah would probably
remember.
I don't remember.
Off the top of my head I've hada couple beverages, but anyways
, um, that's wild.
I didn't realize that.
I knew she was very popular,didn't know how it progressed
the way it did and I mean,basically it was her skill came
(01:06:04):
out of a necessity which wasproviding for the family, kind
of thing.
So that's pretty wild that shehad to.
Hey, we want to eat, let me goshoot this squirrel or whatever
animal is in front of me, kindof thing.
Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
She kind of gets mixed up a little bit with
Calamity, jane, oh sure.
Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Calamity.
Jane was a fucking drunk.
Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
She was actually in.
So she was in Missouri.
Yeah, In South Dakota.
Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Yes, because she was in Deadwood not just because of
the show, but I believe sheactually was in Missouri.
Yeah, in South Dakota.
Yes, because she she was inDeadwood not just because of the
show, but I believe sheactually was in Deadwood.
Yes, because she was friendswith with Wild Bill Hickok.
Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
Yes, yes, so there's there.
People think there's a littlebit of overlap, but there's
really not no, there reallyisn't they were kind of around
the same um time frame justconfusion, I think but yes, I,
it's all the quote-unquote.
West Wild West.
Yes, but Annie Oakley was Ohio,calamity Jane was South Dakota.
(01:07:03):
Yeah, correct, yeah, so I justwant to make that clear and
Annie Oakley prim proper persona.
Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
Calamity Jane, no.
Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Drunkard Not so much.
Not so much.
Maybe we'll do an episode onhere.
Stay tuned for a future episode.
We should go to deadwood and dothat I absolutely want to go to
deadwood and do that.
I would love to let's do that.
I haven't do you think myfriend would um skip her walk at
graduation tomorrow so we cango do that so we can go to like
(01:07:34):
deadwood uh, we can stop by andpick up the third microphone.
Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
She can be on the podcast.
Let's do that.
That sounds way better thanwalking for a graduation it does
.
No, I'm here for her of coursewe're here for her.
Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
That's why we're doing this okay, so between this
whole episode I've had to pauseto cough and stuff like that
and sniff and whatever sniff Ihad, I had the sniffles is what
I meant.
Sounded weird, but yes coughand sniffles, blow my nose, and
while that he um got up to getseveral more alcoholic beverages
(01:08:08):
.
So tell you are now three in tomy two thirds of this yingling
Like I thought.
Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
It got better as I drank more.
Like most alcoholic beveragesdo, the initial flavor is okay,
I'm not going to say great, butit drops off with that soda
water they call it.
On this one it drops off.
I'm not a huge soda water kindof guy.
(01:08:42):
I like tonic, which to me isway different, not so much
because soda water to me is morelike club soda.
I could be wrong but no, it gotbetter as I drank more.
This fourth one will probablybe amazing um.
Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
I liked my ying ling ying ling.
Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
It again it's, it's very basic, it's a beer.
There's not a ton of flavor toit, it's a beer but uh, I could,
I could easily drink this whenI sold beer I had this account,
um, and it was a liquor storebut he had a bar upstairs and I
got to know the bartender andthen he built a new store, he
moved over, whatever.
Anyways, sad, very nice guy.
(01:09:27):
I remember it was at theoriginal place.
I like pale ales.
You know that I like ipas, allthat, the hazies, all that stuff
.
I'm not a huge lager fan.
I don't remember which beer wewere talking about at the time,
but I'm like yeah, I don'treally like lagers.
She's like oh so you don't likebeer?
Flavored beer like no, I don't,I guess, because that's
(01:09:52):
traditionally what a beer issupposed to be like if you boil
it down, obviously, many, manyyears ago.
Lots of variations now, blah,blah, blah.
But no, I, I, I like lagers, Ilike modelo.
I mean, you love modelo, butfor what?
That is not like, it's notgoing to blow you out of the
(01:10:12):
water there's definitely notmuch to it.
No, it's just a beer, literallyjust a beer.
So again I knew it wasn't goingto be anything like to knock
your socks off.
Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
No, but I hadn't tried it and, like you said,
it's the oldest breweryapparently.
Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
In the United States if I'm not mistaken.
So I wanted you to try itbecause, again, we don't get it
out by us, eventually we will.
It will eventually make its wayto Wisconsin, I think.
But we happen to be here, I sawit.
I'm like you gotta at least tryit, because you've never had it
before and we were trying to gofor something, and that's why I
(01:10:48):
got mine.
From what did I say?
Indianapolis, it's from yessince we're on location, which
we don't get to do very often,uh, besides either the pod loft
or your place, um, we wanted totry something more ish local,
which I understand yours istechnically not local to where
we are, but we also can't get itwhere we're from.
(01:11:11):
So, um, no, I, I enjoyed mine.
Once I drank more of them andI'm glad you, you know again,
you didn't hate it.
Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
No, it was fine, it's nothing phenomenal, it's just.
Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
It's a beer, cheese sticks.
You have cheese sticks.
Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
Sorry, squirrel, I have cheese sticks next to me.
Welp, I suppose I'm going toeat some cheese sticks.
Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Alright, buffoons.
That's it for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
Buckle up, because we've got another historical
adventure waiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
explore.
Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
Hit us up on social media.
We're History Buffoons Podcaston YouTube X, instagram and
Facebook.
You can also email us athistorybuffoonspodcast at
gmailcom.
We are Bradley and Kate.
Music by Corey Akers.
Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn
those notifications on to stayin the loop.
Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to
rate and review us.
Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
Remember, the buffoonery never stops.
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