April 29, 2025 • 68 mins
Fascinators, mint juleps, and a centuries-old tradition that nearly collapsed—the Kentucky Derby's rich history goes far beyond the track.
How did a 24-year-old architect's twin spires design become an American icon? What catastrophic argument nearly destroyed America's premier horse race? And why must every competing thoroughbred be exactly three years old? Our Derby Day episode traces horse racing from ancient Greek chariot competitions to today's multimillion-dollar spectacle.
When Meriwether Lewis Clark (grandson of the famous explorer) built Churchill Downs in 1874, his vision for a prestigious racing establishment faltered under mismanagement and financial strain. By 1894, the Kentucky Derby was bankrupt and ridiculed in the press. It took the unlikely intervention of a merchant tailor with childhood memories of the first Derby to transform this failing local event into a national institution.
Discover how Colonel Matt Winn's business savvy and innovative betting machines saved racing in Kentucky, setting the stage for beloved traditions like the 554-rose garland, elaborate hats that rival any cosplay convention, and bourbon-soaked celebrations. We explore how a single horse race grew to symbolize American sporting heritage and style, complete with its own rules, rituals, and remarkable resilience.
Whether you're a racing enthusiast or just appreciate a good comeback story, our mint julep-fueled journey through Derby history will leave you ready to don your most extravagant headwear and cheer for the "Run for the Roses."
https://www.britannica.com/sports/horse-racing/The-state-of-racing
https://www.britannica.com/sports/Kentucky-Derby
https://www.americanheritage.com/history-kentucky-derby
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Oh, hey there, oh hey there, I'm Kate.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
And I'm Bradley.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
And this is History Buffins.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, on video.
Holy shit, this isnerve-wracking.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I don't likeins yeah on video Holy shit, this is
nerve-wracking.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I don't like it.
I don't like it one bit.
We have never done this before,because well.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
And I look like a goof.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I mean A buffoon.
That's where I was going to go.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Well, you can imagine , I am dressed like this for a
specific reason.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Do tell.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
The Kentucky Derby is coming up.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It sure is.
Yes, it's one of my favoritethings to watch each year.
It's the fastest two minutes insports, two minutes in sports
ever.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yes, yes, I um.
We are going to talk about thebiggest cosplay event outside of
any convention center.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I mean, is it cosplay ?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It kind of is.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I feel like in a way, it could be.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
These people don't dress like that.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Not normally.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Not with the hats.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
No, those are some giant fucking hats.
Yes, but uh, you know, I don'twear hats, I don't I want a big
noggin.
I know it's hard for me to findhats.
I have to order them online andI get too warm all the time, so
I usually don't wear hats.
Yeah, keeps too much heat in.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, that's why I put socks on.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
What, the what.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Because that's where my heat escapes.
Your heat escapes from yourhead.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Mine escape from my feet.
Yeah, so my oldest brotherlikes to.
He collects hats, kind of.
He'll always buy new ones andhe's always wearing them.
And I wasn't trying to flip youoff, I had an itch A fucking
itch.
I had a fucking itch.
So he'll buy hats all the timeand he gets the fitted ones, not
(02:04):
what the cool kids callsnapbacks.
These days, I just call thosehats.
I had an argument with a kidwho was like 10 years younger
than me about it once at workBecause of their hats.
He calls them snapbacks.
I'm like they're just calledfucking hats or caps.
There's hats or fitted hats.
I guess that's where my brainwent, but either way, yeah, we
(02:28):
can never find fitted ones thatfit my head though, yeah,
whereas my brother can.
So apparently I got the largedome in the family.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Ouch Feel bad for your mother.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Well, you know, epidural.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I wouldn't know.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well, no, neither would you, no, no I wouldn't,
okay, tell, tell us what we'redrinking today.
So I made us, uh, mint juleps,because that's the official
beverage of the kentucky derby.
Kate is not what you would calla big bourbon person at all, so
I did tell her that if shecan't get through this, it's
(03:11):
kind of fogging up from the cold, from the ice, did you find it?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So Kate was so nice to get us.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
You can't tell.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
No, well, we'll take a picture when they're not so
cloudy, from the, from the ice.
But uh, kate was nice enough toget us mint julep cups with um,
that was weird.
What was that?
I don't know what I did wasthat your stomach growling?
No promise I'm very full yes,but uh, she got us some in julep
julep cups with that actuallysay Phone's 2025 on it.
(03:44):
So we're commemorating ourfirst ever video with Julep cups
oh please.
There we go Drink from thebottom.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Do I have to touch the bottom?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
That's preferred, unless you want a whole bunch of
bourbon right away.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
That's a piece of mint, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
You'll get that from time to time.
Oh, that's fucking good.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I can't go to the bottom because nothing's soaking
up.
There we go.
That's minty.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, it is a mint julep.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
It's very sweet.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yes, it's from the simple syrup, for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So what's the ingredients?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Bourbon to make the simple syrup.
Was that a strong one?
The sweet one actually okay, um, you can buy like pre-made
simple syrup.
I just make my own because it'sjust water and powdered.
Wow that was mint, um powderedsugar and water to make my own,
and then obviously the mintbourbon and I used.
(04:47):
The recipe I got all theseyears ago was uh, with you, just
top it off with some white soda.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I usually use sprite, so yeah, but yeah cheers, don't
choke drinking the mint, pardon, me okay, so you also I did
print it off the odds and thehorses so we can, so we can try
(05:17):
to pick which one is gonna winyou said you like sovereignty
for the name.
Yes, yes, I think that name ispretty nice.
I like it, it's a nine to twoodds, which I don't understand.
The odds.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I am still the two specifically.
I'm probably wrong because I'ma buffoon, but I think that's
the favorite.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Oh, you think so.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I believe.
I am not 100% sure.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
But you could probably look it up real quick
if you want to.
I really don't Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I'm going to pick Sovereignty solely on the name,
because out of all the names, Ireally like that one.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I mean, I like it.
That's a good name.
I am going to go with BurnhamSquare.
I like that one.
That's a good name, yeah that'smy, that's my eight and one
odds, not terrible, he's out ofthe number one, so he might get
pushed against the the fence,but you know I um.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I also like the name citizen bull I do like that one
yes and owen and Owen Almighty.
I think that's great, yeah.
And then Flying Mohawk I thinkthat's pretty epic.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
That's a pretty great one.
I'm not going to lie FlyingMohawk.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Who doesn't like that ?
And California Burrito.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
California.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Burrito, but my pick is Sovereignty Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Mine's Burnham Square .
So we will see who, if eitherof us even come close and uh get
those picks right.
But uh, let's uh learn somehistory on the derby on the
biggest cosplay event outside ofa convention center.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Okay I feel like I've heard that before so I this is
actually going to be a little ofa Q&A yes, there's only 11
questions, okay, so it's notlike rapid fire or anything,
right, but you know a lot abouthorse racing.
You know enough.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
I know a decent amount.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
You had a horse.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I did have a horse.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
yes, and what was her name?
Her regular name was Molly.
And what was her racing name?
Is that what you would call it?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Her, her, so she wasn't or like a certified name.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I don't know how that works.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I'm trying to remember the what they called it
, so she wasn't a racehorse, she, uh, she was just in like the
hunter jumpers, which is likegoing over fences and stuff and
whatever.
Uh, uh, her name for that wasindulgence.
Oh, that's sweet yeah I likethat too.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I didn't pick it.
I like it though.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
No, I do too yeah but her name was molly and she was
a sweet horse and she loved meyeah, it was great.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
What kind of horse was she?
Do you recall she was athoroughbred does that not help
you?
Yeah, well, I was expecting,like an Arabian horse.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
That's a different than a thoroughbred or a.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Pelomino.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
That's different than both of those, oh, okay.
Different than a quarter horse,different than a Pertron, a
Clydesdale.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I thought it was like an overall general horse.
No, and then there are.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
A thoroughbred is a specific type of horse, oh, I
didn't know that that is theonly type of horse you will see
in the derby okay, yeah whenmost of them will be male.
Once in a while you'll see afemale and one or two sometimes
in the races, but most of themare males typically.
But you will see some okayfemale horses race.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Well, do you know how far back horse racing goes?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I'm going to go to when we domesticated horses.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Way before that.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
So there was horse racing before we domesticated
horses.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I mean, can you really domesticate horses?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I mean yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I mean, can you really not domesticate them?
Well, yeah, you have wildhorses, I suppose so I mean
those still exist somewhere inthe world, I'm sure they really
do.
Yeah, it's a real thing well,the very first race actually
does remain a mystery, becauseit wasn't written down so it was
before, uh, written history.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Basically, I don't know Fair enough.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
But we do know that ancient Greeks were pretty
serious about it, oh really.
They had chariot races.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Oh, sure, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, and bareback riding events in their Olympics.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah, chariots of fire.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
So that was between 700 and 40 BC.
Holy shit, yeah, so a long timeago.
Wow, and they loved their horseracing.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I'm sure they did.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
It was a big organized public event.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
So then, beyond Greece and Rome, the details get
a little fuzzy.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
But China, persia, arabia, north Africa are likely
in on it as well.
Right, and then those areaswere pretty good with
horsemanship, sure, and that'swhere we get the horses like the
Arabian horse, the Barb and theTurk horses.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
And I guess that's kind of why I thought maybe
these are thoroughbreds, youknow like a subsect, I guess is
what I was kind of thinking of.
Yeah, no, they're a specifictype yeah, so um in medieval
england, horse races um startedbecoming like a sales pitch oh
so professional riders wouldshow off horses speed for
(10:39):
potential buyers.
Oh, gotcha, and richard thelionheart even put up a prize, a
whopping 40 pounds for a threemile race with knights on the
saddles like actual knights,like sword and everything yeah
yeah, lance a lot kind of night.
Yeah, oh wow, yeah nice and thenin the 16th century, henry the
(10:59):
eighth, oh um, brought in sometop notch horses from it Italy
and Spain, probably, barbs, okayand they started their own
breeding programs, gotcha.
So the 17th century saw thatJames, I was sponsoring races in
England and Charles I was quitea horse enthusiast.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
How so.
He owned a stable of 139 horsesHoly shit, that's a lot of
horses.
Well, I would say that's anenthusiast.
How so he owned a stable of 139horses?
Holy shit, that's a lot ofhorses.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Well, I would say that's an enthusiast.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
I mean, I would say that's a connoisseur, holy shit.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
That's an over-the-top connoisseur.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I mean, he had the funds.
What do you think of it?
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That was bourbon.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
That was a whole lot of bourbon in that drink.
That's all right, we broughtyou a backup beer just in case.
Yes, we did.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So in France the first recorded race happened in
1651.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Okay, who won?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
It was a battle between two noblemen.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So it was just a two-person race.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yep Gotcha no idea Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
One of the noblemen won One of the two won Well.
I mean, you're not wrong, we'lljust say that.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Hopefully they finished.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Well, I mean, I would think, so Under.
Louis XIV, did you have tocount the V-I-I's and all that?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
The.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
X-I-V I like the hand gestures too, x-i-v.
Do you think people used to dothat outside of his palace and
shit?
Why did you say why?
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I don't know, I am so glad Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Oh, by the working men.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Shut up.
So under Louis XIV, horseracing got really popular, and
that's when they kind of startedgetting gambling involved.
Okay, and he decided to get alittle bit more organized and he
created a jockey club gotchaand he set up, like more of the
like, official rules.
Okay, so he required horses tohave proof of their origins and
(13:02):
made foreign horses carry extraweight in races, which I'm not
sure why interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Maybe they're not thoroughbreds, maybe not, but
why would they have to wear,carry extra weight?
Speaker 1 (13:15):
maybe so that they're all.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Their weight is somewhat equal I mean, I guess
maybe so, like if the horseweighed, we'll just use pounds,
because that's what we use 100pounds, but this horse weighs
120.
You had to put 20 pounds on theother horse, yeah, kind of
thing.
Or like what their armorweighed and all or whatever.
They wore kind of thing yeah Iwonder yeah, I mean, very well
could be and also, did theytrain with the weight?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
because if not, then damn damn they'd be like what's
this extra 20?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
pounds.
Do you think the horse would belike man?
You put on some fucking weight.
Maybe lay off the rotisseriechicken.
Are you hungry all of a suddenagain?
No, okay.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
So across the pond in North America hey, that's us.
Organized racing started whenthe British took over New
Amsterdam, which was New York,in 1664.
Right, okay so, colonel RichardNichols was a British commander
and he set up a two mile racecourse on Long Island and named
it New Market after the famousBritish track.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, so I feel like my headphones are slipping.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Because of your.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Maybe Okay.
I feel like my headphones areslipping Because of your Maybe
Okay.
So he even offered a silver cupas a prize for the best horse.
Hey, and then, up until theCivil War, the focus in American
racing was on stamina asopposed to speed.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Okay, so distance more than Mm-hmm Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
More than speed, yeah , but after the war, speed
became the name of the game.
And then, and they startedmodeling the races after the
british system gotcha okay.
So kentucky's reputation as aprime location for breeding top
tier racehorses has roots thatgo back pretty far.
Sure, john Filson was an authorof the 1784 book, the Discovery
(15:09):
Settlement and Present State ofKentucky, ending in an E, not a
Y.
Really Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Kentucky.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
That's weird.
I've never seen that before.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
He highlighted a bunch of the area's natural
advantages.
Okay, so horses weren't reallyany kind of focus in his book,
but it it painted more of avivid picture of, like the, the
climate and the landscape andand and the resources of what we
know as kentucky right so theearly promotion of kentucky's
abundance contributed to theregion's later association with
(15:43):
successful breeding horses.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Okay.
So even before Kentuckyofficially became a state,
Louisville was already deep intohorse racing.
What do you call it?
Louisville, louisville,louisville.
These are funny, it's fine,it's fine.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Everything's fine.
I believe in you.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I still look pretty right.
Oh, that's great.
So, well done.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So they were starting to have issues with the races
being in the middle of town, andso the city leader started
pushing for proper race tracksto be built.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Oh, I see Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
So they realized that things were just getting, they
were just getting unorganizedand the downtown streets were
getting busy.
So that kind of paves the wayfor Meriwether Clark.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Meriwether Clark.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Do you know who he might be named after Meriwether?
Meriwether Clark?
Do you know who he might benamed after Meriwether?
This is your first question, bythe way.
Who is Meriwether Clark namedafter?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Lewis and Clark.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yes, good job.
Yeah, you're looking at it.
His full name is MeriwetherLewis Clark.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Well, fucking A-rated it is.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
And he is.
I think he was the grandson ofClark.
Oh, really yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Oh, so they're actually related.
Okay, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Good job on your first question.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Well, thank you, you're very welcome.
Sweet Time to go.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Whoa.
So Clark traveled abroad toEurope a lot and he witnessed
something that America didn'thave at the time.
What?
So Clark traveled abroad toEurope a lot and he witnessed
something that America didn'thave at the time.
What?
Was that Horse racing for thefancy.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
For the fancy For the fancy.
You mean like fancy people?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Oh shit.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Like the top tier people, not them bottom tier
people who are we?
We're mid-tier.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Mid-tier.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
At best.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
That's very high of ourselves.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I mean shoot for the stars right.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Those are the top-tier people.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Well, that's what we're shooting for, okay, or at
whatever.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
So his experience over in Europe, he sparked an
idea to create a jockey club inLouisville, Gotcha to create a
jockey club in louisville,gotcha, and he aimed both to
promote races and also showcasethe city's top notch horses
essentially okay.
Two years later, in 1874, he hedid make it happen, building a
racetrack on land owned by hisuncles.
(18:17):
Oh, john and henry churchillnumber question number two what
is the name of the track?
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Churchill Downs.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Correct.
And question number three doyou know what Downs?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
means Well, in this day and age it's a sickness or
whatever.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Down syndrome, you're not wrong.
But, that was a direction I wasnot expecting.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I couldn't pass that up.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
So, before formal racetracks existed, horse races
were often held on naturalgrassy plains, which were
referred to as downs.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Oh, I did not know that, okay.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
So historically it indicated often rolling grassy
terrain um, and the trackofficially opened its gates,
known as churchill downs, on may17th 1875 and the very first
kentucky derby was held that dayand do you know like this one
(19:19):
is the 151st running of the so Idon't, I don't get that well,
because they this is the 151sttime they're running it, because
it started then, so it ranright away.
See, and that's what confusedme.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Because you think it should only be 150.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Because I was like this would be 150 this time, but
I was like, why is it 151?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Because it's 150 if you just go off of years.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
But it's actually happening this year.
But it's actually happeningthis year 151st time.
Yeah correct.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Well, we just missed it by a year.
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Well, no, it was, we watched it last year.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I would dress up like this at the 567th song.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Or the 12th, who knows.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Whatever Back in time , who was the very first?
This is question number four.
I'm not going to get this right.
Who was the very first?
This is question number four.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I'm not going to get this right?
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Who was the very first horse that won?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Very first horse that won.
I have no fucking idea.
I had to phonetically spell itout oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
So bear with me.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I always do.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Aristides.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Say it one more time Aristides.
Aristides, I have never heardof that horse.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Aristides.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Interesting yes.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So the Kentucky Debr Error.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Hold on, this will help.
Well, it usually does.
I'm plowing through mine, so Ishould have brought a beer too.
Wow, that was something.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Woo Woo, you can move to the beer if you'd like.
That's tasty, it is really good.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
I kind of wish I had two of them.
I should maybe set mine downfor a minute.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
The Kentucky Derby was first run at a mile and a
half.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yes, the Epsom Derby in England was run at a distance
of a mile and a half, right?
Yes, the Epsom Derby in Englandwas run at a distance of a mile
and a half.
Yes, and that influencedClark's decision to run the
derby at the same distance.
Okay.
However, the mile and a halfwas later deemed a little bit
too demanding for thoroughbreds.
Okay, especially so early on inthe racing season.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
So they shortened it to a mile and A quarter.
A quarter, that's right, aquarter.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
You mean like 25 cent 25 cent.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Okay, next question.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
How old do the horses have to be to compete?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Three years old.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Correct.
So they have to have reachedtheir third year.
That means the horse only hasone opportunity in his lifetime
to compete in the Kentucky Derby.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Correct.
Do you know what the horse'stypical birthday is?
Speaker 1 (21:55):
No.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
January 1st why.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Just to make it all even.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Apparently I never understood that.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
The ex always told me I never fucking understood and
I didn't look into it, butapparently never fucking
understood and I didn't lookinto it, but apparently I mean
it would make sense if, ifsomeone is like I don't know
three years and 11 months rightor, excuse me, two years and 11
months.
It's like we can't quite makeit, but if your birthday was
just but see, and then that'sthe thing like.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
If you wait another year, you're almost four years
old yeah, so it's like.
So I don't know if that hashonestly something to do with it
, but I always thought that wasa really kind of a weird thing
that apparently all theirbirthdays in quotes again are
January 1st.
At least that's what she toldme.
She could be wrong.
She was wrong about a lot ofthings.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
So when I get my cats I don't remember shit.
So I don't remember when I gotthem, but I kind of thereabouts
know the month, so the first ofthe month.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
You're right.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Is their birth date.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
No, I get that.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Except for Oliver, because unfortunately we had our
little baby Simon pass awayNovember 16th in 2020.
Right, and we got Oliver twodays before Christmas, oh, okay,
2020.
And we're like are we ready foranother one, are we not?
Right, you, christmas 2020.
And we're like are we ready foranother one, are we not?
So his is like really the onlybirth date other than the babies
(23:12):
.
I know when the babies wereborn because I was there.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
So is that the gotcha date or the birth date?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
So excuse me, you're right, Oliver is my gotcha date,
so that is his birth date.
For us, Penny and Frankie, it'sthe first of whatever month we
chose.
And then Penny's babies, Bonnieand Amos.
We actually do know their birthdates Well because you actually
had them as kittens and allthat yes.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Whereas for one of my cats of the three remaining I
know specifically when she wasborn Because I was there, which
I still love, if she was born on6, 6 of 06.
So it's really is that wicked?
Yep, well, baby, wicked, she'sso sweet I got to see her mama,
(23:58):
uh jasper, birth her in the farmin the, in the barn up in the
hayloft.
So I love the but yeah, so Iactually got to see her, see her
be born.
So that's awesome, yeah becausewe knew she was going to pop
soon.
And sure shit, sure shit, thereit was.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
So okay, so yes thoroughbreds are a specific
breed of horse known for theirspeed and agility.
Yes, making them the idealbreed for racing, correct?
So horses must all also qualifyfor the kentucky derby earning
points, like there's a wholepoint system, um, in designated
(24:39):
races called road to thekentucky derby yeah, they have a
bunch ofhmm that they're racingpretty much months up to and
even, I think, the prior year,if I'm not mistaken.
I don't recall that part.
Okay, but there are a specificnumber of races in the Road to
(25:00):
the Kentucky Derby, gotcha.
Next question how many racesare there?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
That I'm not.
I don't know the answer to that36.
Holy shit, yeah, shit, yeah,way more than I was gonna guess.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I was gonna go with like five so this system ensures
that the horses competing inthe derby are amongst the best
of their age group well, whichmakes sense.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You don't want some guy who, some horse that just
got lucky on this race.
Oh, you get to go to the derbynow, yeah, but yeah, he would
have sucked the next 20 races,kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
So yeah, it weeds out yeah the not as good horses
yeah, oh, but they're still socute.
Oh, like, we'll keep you mollycould have never raced in the
derby but she was fuckingadorable yeah so now, despite
kentucky, the kentucky derby'sinitial popularity, yeah mr
merriweather lewis Clark didn'thave a great management style.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Well, that really fucked shit up.
I worked for a company thatdidn't have a good management
style either.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I know I've known about that with you Fucking
terrible.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah, here's to you.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah Fuckers.
No, let's not Nope.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Clark prioritized extravagant social events over,
so he was using it as a statusthing more than what it actually
was.
Yeah, okay, makes sense.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
So he catered a lot to wealthy patrons and he aimed
to make Churchill Downs afashionable destination for the
elite.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Is that why they wear big hats?
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Oh, we're going to talk about that.
Yeah, we are.
But his pursuit in the socialprestige, clark, neglected the
day-to-day operations.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
See, that's not good for a business.
No, Because that's ultimatelywhat it is.
I mean, it's horse racing, andhorse racing is a business.
You need to kind of focus onthat part too.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Let's just say he lacked the necessary, necessary
competence we got there.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
That was a rough road .
I also lack the necessarycompetence I mean, I hope you
don't expect an argument shut upso his mismanagement
unfortunately led to financialinefficiencies and a lack of
profitability.
Yeah, and that it's funnybecause, like, obviously he's
(27:15):
the one who started it and it'sit's still going.
Today we're talking about it,uh, we're getting ready for the
race and yet he fucked it up sodid someone swoop in and save it
?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
so so yes, 1886.
Good year Also, yes, but theKentucky Derby almost imploded
over what basically started as asmall-time argument.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
It all kicked off when Churchill Downs locked out
bookmakers who weren't payingtheir dues.
Oh, ruh-roh, ruh-roh.
So James Ben Ali Hagen what aname.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I love it.
That's quite.
I love it.
Can you say it one more time,just for James Ben Ali Hagen.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
He was a big shot.
New York gambler.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
And a horse owner and he had a whole bunch of like
top horses to race at the trackright.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
So he was furious about the bookies being gone.
Okay.
But, he still ran his horse,Ben Ali Ben.
Ali, he fucking named his horseafter himself.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
What a vain character Douche, what a douche?
Douche canoe.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
But ali won imagine that imagine that but, then
hagen dropped a bombshell.
If the boogies didn't come back, he was pulling all of his
horses and he was out of here.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
He was leaving, so he had that much pull.
Yeah, that it mattered he hadthat much pull.
Yeah, that it mattered.
He had basically all the horses.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
If he pulled the horses, there was no horses.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Well, that would be a problem for a horse race.
I love the cross-eyed lookevery single time you take a sip
.
It's fucking amazing.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
It's the powdered sugar, simple syrup.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Because, yeah, it's not powdered sugar anymore.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I like the mint, I like the bourbon.
I'm thinking maybe no simplesyrup and just the sprite.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
See what that tastes like we can do that for you next
time for me yeah, yeah, I likethe simple syrup.
I feel like I didn't put enoughin mine, but my drink's almost
gone which is also sad we mighthave to do a.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I feel like I didn't put enough in mine, but my
drink's almost gone, which isalso sad we might have to do a
bridge.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Let's keep going.
Let's trudge on here, okay, so.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Higgins, haggins.
Haggin, pulling his horses wasa major deal.
It was a big threat.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Without his horses, the whole racing season,
including next year's Derby,would be a major flop, Right.
So for a moment it looked likethey kind of dodged a bullet.
The bookies and the trackreached a quick deal.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
A track official couldn't keep his mouth shut,
though.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
What did he?
Speaker 1 (30:11):
say he basically told everyone that he thought Hagen
Sorry, rewind he basically toldHagen what he thought of him and
where to go.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
To tell him to go to H-E Double Hockey Sticks.
Yes, holy shit, that isscandalous.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
And of course it got right around to Hagen, hagen's
all, like he said what about me?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
No, he didn't.
No, he didn't.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
So the next morning Hagen was gone, stables were
completely empty my horses wereleaving, load the train he
packed out.
He packed up just like he saidhe would.
A little spat nearly killed thegolden goose.
So sad I think I'm getting alittle loopy on this.
Okay, a little.
(31:08):
So Hagen went back to New York.
He convinced all of the otherbig-name horse owners from the
East Coast with top-performinghorses, to boycott Churchill
Downs.
Yeah, so the effect wasdevastating.
Oh, dear.
And remember Kentucky wasn'tthe horse-racing powerhouse that
it is today.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Correct, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
They couldn't keep the track or the derby running
on their own, so interest in thein the race just tanked.
Oh, and they were gettingfields which I'm assuming is
like a group of racing horses ofonly three or four sub par
horses oh, so they're getting,like they're getting the mids,
not the top tier.
Yeah, like the buffoons.
(31:49):
Hello hi, bradley, we're stillhere, hey we'll show up.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
You can tell kate doesn't drink this type of drink
much, very often.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
I drink beer, not liquor, I know sure okay but you
know clark tried to keep thingsafloat, even working without
pay and using his own money tocover debts.
But Churchill Downs wasbleeding money anyway and by
1894, the local paper wasbasically calling the Derby a
joke.
Oh shit, the track wentbankrupt.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
What did you do?
Speaker 1 (32:33):
I don't know Something moved on the computer,
but why?
I don't know something moved onthe computer, but why?
I don't know.
The track went bankrupt andclark completely heartbroken.
Stepped down well, I meanstepped down at churchill downs
he stepped churchill down Isorry, what was that?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Did you burp?
I did.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Finally, I'm not the only one.
It's because I'm not drinkingbeer.
That's why.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I will release the burp track if you don't shut the
fuck up.
Yeah, that's right.
That's what I thought, anyways,so it's.
I don't know what you'retalking about.
I do.
So the funny thing is, jesusChrist, this might have been the
wrong episode to start.
Holy shitballs.
Pretty good, right, it's gone,am I right?
(33:23):
I was trying to say something,but then you were being all
Katie.
I didn't mean it to sound likethat, kate E why at the end?
Ah, jesus, fuck, sorry aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, that wasn't intended.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I haven't been called that since last week by a
student.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Well, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
She called me Katie and and I was like what?
Speaker 2 (33:52):
but see, I didn't actually call you katie, I
called you kate.
It wasn't intended for that.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I apologize, kate okay, you're being all kate.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, fucking derailing shit.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Okay, so for those of you who don't know, Katie is my
real name.
I just prefer Kate.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yes, you go by Kate and you have her a very long
time.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
So that's why I feel bad calling her that, because it
wasn't intended.
So, anyways, can we movefucking past this for the love
of God, okay?
Speaker 1 (34:25):
So tragically.
Clark never recovered fromstepping down and basically
losing the derby, and five yearslater he was found dead.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Oh, shit did.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
We know why so or how I should say, gunshot wounds
like he was gunned down or hekilled himself.
It's unknown historians don'teven know like what happened, if
it was self-inflicted or if itwas murder.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
That is fucking wild, really.
Mm-hmm.
Wow, I had never heard thatbefore.
I also didn't really know muchabout him.
To be honest, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
But after that a group of investors bought
Churchill Downs and gave it amakeover, building the famous
grandstand with the twin spires.
They also shortened thedistance to a mile and a quarter
.
At this time, Right.
And they started a tradition ofgiving the winning horse a
(35:20):
blanket of roses, which led tothe race being called.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Race of the Roses.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Run for the Roses.
Run for the.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Roses.
Yeah, fuck, I knew that.
That's all right, I meant tosay run.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
And even with the changes, the boycott actually
did continue to drag on.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Oh shit.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Plus, new management cut the prize money, so trainers
took their best horseselsewhere.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Which I mean.
That's why they're in it.
So can you stop doing that,yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
You are on fucking camera right now.
I can't see myself.
Attendance did keep droppingand the Derby was still getting
small, weak fields, sure.
So a group of forces, rightyeah, fields, yeah.
So by 1902, the investors werepretty much done.
They wanted to get rid ofChurchill Downs basically a
financial burden and pass it onto somebody else.
So just when things lookedcompletely hopeless, along comes
(36:12):
Colonel Matt J Winn W-I-N-N.
He was a merchant tailor andnot a big horse track kind of a
person.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Just a business guy.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
He's a businessman, exactly, but he had a lifelong
obsession with the Derby becausehe saw Astricities win as a kid
.
Oh, really yes.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah.
So Wynn took over as a vicepresident and later general
manager and he had this amazingcharm and business sense, sure,
and he started personallyreaching out to, like old
louisville fans who used to goto the track offering them seats
for the 1903 derby nice, and itworked.
(37:01):
They brought their friends win,made sure everyone had a great
time and they, they did, keptcoming back.
So he like personally invited,sure, all these people, hey you
like churchill downs.
You know several years ago.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Please come back like here's a ticket.
That's a nice touch, though,because it's a personal touch,
where it's like he's actuallyinviting these people instead of
just being like hey, you shouldspend money here yeah kind of
thing, yeah, exactly the peoplefelt welcomed and wanted, I
guess.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
And for the first time in ages, Churchill Downs
did make a profit.
Wow.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
And you said 03?
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Okay, so things were looking up.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Oh, I'm sorry, people used to say, oh, three Anyways.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Do you want to wear this?
I kind of do, now you don'thave hair for it.
It'd have to be like a beardclip.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
That would be fucking fantastic.
Maybe I'll do that for nextyear's episode stay tuned, folks
probably won't happen.
The beard, the beard thing,that is an episode I'm hoping
okay so anyways things werelooking up.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
The the derby was still struggling a little bit to
attract more than a few localhorses and the local fans, right
.
But then there was anotherproblem the whole country was
going through an anti-gamblingreform phase.
Oh yeah, and in 1907, thereformers took over Louisville
City Hall and banned bookmakingat Churchill Downs.
(38:24):
That's wild.
And banned book making atChurchill Downs.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
That's wild Podcast gold.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Very minty though.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Mint gold.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
That was the only way people bet on horses.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Right Was through the bookkeeping Sure.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
So Wynn was stuck the general manager Yep, so he
could either use theseold-fashioned auction pools.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Which were basically for rich people, or these new
French Paris Moutel.
What is that now?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I don't know either.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Paris Moutel, paris Moutel Machines, I don't know,
okay, I don't know.
Pare-mutel, pare-mutel Machines, I don't know, okay, I don't
know.
Anyways, auction pools theywere like live horse auction,
but for betting.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
So each horse was, like, auctioned off to the
highest bidder, who basicallyowned that horse for bidding
purposes.
So spectators bid on the horsesbefore the race.
The highest bidder for eachhorse owned that bet pool gotcha
if that horse won, the ownergot the entire pool minus the
house cut okay and then youcould also buy partial shares,
(39:41):
and horses too, so like buyingstock in a horse with no
financial stability.
The problem with that it waspretty sketchy.
It was open to manipulation, itfavored the wealthy and the
well-connected.
Sure, and extremely confusingand chaotic for, like casual
fans who were like wanting tolike, try their bed you know,
maybe hit a couple bucks orwhatever yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
So the paris motels can you stop saying that sorry,
but that's what it's called.
I know, but you say it's Sorry,but that's what it's called.
I know, but you say it so weird.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
You don't know what it's called anyway.
I don't know it's probablyright.
I mean it's probably right,Probably Paris Moutels is French
for mutual betting.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
And they were kind of perfect for this situation.
They were fair, allowed smallbets and got rid of the bogey
corruption.
All right.
So those were first used at theKentucky Derby in 1908.
Okay, and it replaced auctionpools after public demand for
fairness and transparency.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
And all bets.
Basically all bets go into apool and the odds fluctuate
based on how much a bet is oneach horse Right After the house
or tax cut.
The pool is then divided amongthe winning bets.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Okay, so it's also a machine.
So in the early 20th century,mechanical machines were used to
calculate the odds and payoutsin real time.
No app, no Wi-Fi, just gearsand cranks and sweaty math guys.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
They didn't have Wi-Fi back then.
I know right, so weird.
Oh my God, stop moving Wiffy,stop fucking it up.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
So it won.
Stop, I'm not used to.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
MacBooks.
Yeah, I know, sorry about that.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
It's okay.
It was more fair, moretransparent, it allowed anyone
to bet small amounts Right, andit let the actual betting public
influence the odds, not justthe rich auctioning bullies.
But they hadn't been popular inAmerica before, okay.
I mean it was Frosch right?
(41:54):
Frosch Clark even had them andfailed to use them.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
So still, wynn went with the mutual betting machines
.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
You're welcome.
You can say what they are, Idon't mind.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
The city dug up some old law banning machine betting.
Because they're in this reformstage this anti-betting stage.
So the city was like not allowed, so win was left with nothing
but those auction pools, whichwere sure to be banned soon,
right?
So it looked like the derby andchurchill downs were sure to be
banned soon, right?
So it looked like the Derby andChurchill downs were going to
(42:29):
be doomed again.
But Wynn and the trackpresident, charlie Granger, were
desperate to figure out howClark had legally used those
machines.
Buried deep in legal code wasan amendment excluding these
mutual betting machines from theanti-machine gambling law.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
That's fucked up.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
That's just what the research said.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
No, I get that, but isn't that wild that there's
some random amendment to this.
That just said these are coolnot those.
Fuck those's like.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
That's just wild yeah , just like, and they found it a
loophole, basically.
Yeah, exactly, that's crazy sothere was still a little bit of
a problem.
They didn't have any of thesemachines.
Of course, not importing themwould take too long and nobody
knew where clark's old machineshad gone, because he did use
those in the past.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
So were they like buried in a basement or some
random?
We actually don't really know.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
That's wild win rallied the whole town to search
for them, suspecting the citywas trying to destroy them oh,
and they found four of clark'smachines, but we I don't know
where it wasn't part of, likethe research that I had sure but
um, win did also get a couplefrom a new york track, so he had
a good abundance of them.
(43:54):
Okay, um, but they were all interrible shape and the mechanics
had to work like crazy tofreaking fix them before the
derby right.
So then the city was like,excuse me by the way you can't
do and they threatened to arresteveryone involved in the
betting.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Isn't that wild that they can just threaten to arrest
everybody?
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Wynn took them to court.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
And won and won Wynn won.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Wynn won.
Wynn won.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Wynn won for the horses.
And the Doby was back onFucking writer was go win, you
won.
I can't stop, I need to pleasestop.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
I will, ironically, all the drama.
Boosted attendance.
Oh, I'm sure it did.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Oh my god, the publicity I mean it's amazing
even how one side was trying tomake it negative still, really
kind of said.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
And they kind of say all press is good press.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Whether it's positive or negative, it just gets your
name out.
There is what they're saying.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
So these mutual betting machines were a huge hit
, with betting five times higherthan the previous year.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Oh, geez, wow, that's quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Wynn said that the machine saved racing in Kentucky
.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Sounds that way.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Mm-hmm, but the Derby was still just kind of a local
event.
Yeah, it's fucking dumb.
Wynn needed something bigger,some national attention.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
And it happened national.
Some national attention okayand it happened in 1913 a huge
long shot named donna rail.
Donna rail won the derby.
Yeah two dollar bet, paying out184.90 that'd be pretty good
back then.
It was a 91 to 1 odds.
(45:48):
Holy fuck 91 to 1.
He was the biggest long shotever To win the derby.
Today that would be about 6million dollars.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Holy shit, really, that's fucking amazing.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
I know 91 to 1.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
What was his name?
Again, donner Rail.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Donner Rail in 1913.
Wow.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Six million dollars, could you fucking.
I mean obviously inflation, butcould you imagine, holy shit,
that would change someone's life.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
It became a.
He became a national sensation.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
I'm sure he did.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
When seized this moment and burped I mean he went
to the east coast and convincedthe influential businessman
harry pain whitney okay to runhis philly regret okayret in the
(46:48):
Derby.
Now it's filly.
Yes Is that a type ofthoroughbred, because I thought
you said thoroughbreds were theonly ones.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
It's a female.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Oh, filly means a female.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
I do believe that's right.
Oh, I'm on a thump.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Yeah, okay, her name is Regret.
I'm pretty sure, unless I'mtotally just fucking getting my
shit wrong in 1915 regret oneshe had no regret she was the
first philly to do so there yougo whitney was ecstatic I'm sure
winning the derby was enough,even if she never won another
(47:22):
race, right.
But when said that regrets.
When made the Derby an Americaninstitution, it literally put
them over the top.
So things were starting to takea turn for the better after the
boycott also ended.
Suddenly the Derby was pullingin these huge fields like 20 or
more top-notch horses every year.
Yep, and Matt Wynn was a masterat getting press on his side.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Sure Sounds like it.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
He'd wind down these influential journalists, print
and radio guys, and they'd writethese glowing reports about the
Derby and that's how the racereally started getting this
national spotlight.
So in the mid-1920s, ChurchillDowns was bursting at the seams
with like 80,000 people showingup for the race Right.
(48:08):
The first radio broadcast ofthe Derby was in 1925.
And they were afraid that withthis broadcast.
It would mean less people inthe stands.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Because they didn't have to go there, right?
No, I can understand that.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
It was the exact opposite.
There were five to six millionlisteners, which was a record
for any broadcast at the time,with over pretty much half the
country turning, tuning up,turning in, but that also didn't
look like deter people fromgoing.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Yes, yes, it was just like it drew people.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Oh my gosh it did yes , but then the great depression
hit oh, people were sad but, but, it made racing even more
popular.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Right, because it was an escape.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Ten states legalized these mutual betting machines to
get some extra cash revenueSure Tax revenue, not cash Tax
revenue.
And suddenly horse racing was,like the most the most popular
sport in the country no for sure, because again.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
So I mean there was baseball back then.
Obviously football wasn't evenreally a thing at that time.
There was college footballstill and the nfl wasn't.
You know, it's kind of notthere yet.
It was teams were around but itwas like I mean, look how old
horse racing is.
You went over in the beginning.
So I mean it was a thing tokind of keep the shit going.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
Exactly so, and the Kentucky Derby became the
absolute highlight of the racingcalendar.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
Like people are tuning in Yep as the Derby was
finally hitting its stride.
There were other big springraces.
Yes, the Belmont, stmont stakes, which is where new york
correct and the preakness whichis where baltimore- correct.
They were also doing reallywell good job on those extra
questions however.
(49:59):
Um, that's not the order theygo in, but okay you're right, I
actually didn't know thatpreakness and then belmont is
last yep.
So in 1935, a horse named omaha, he did something incredible do
you think that was peytonmanning's favorite horse?
Speaker 2 (50:15):
he used to say omaha a lot when he was gonna hike the
ball why I?
Just was his thing.
Huh, I'll have to play you aclip of him I didn't know that.
Yeah, he just got omaha, gopeyton manning, love that guy.
He's pretty funny.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Did you ever see him on Saturday Night Live?
If not, you should Okay.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Because it was fucking hilarious.
No, but I grew up near Omaha.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
I know Nebraska.
Are you trying to get whatlittle might be in there?
Oh, I bet my ice melted alittle bit.
That's why I okay omaha, omaha,a horse, you sounded like pain
(50:56):
manning right there.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
Finally won all three races triple crown, and that's
when writer charlie hatton cameup with the title triple crown.
Basically it's the ultimatetest for any three-year-old
racehorse.
So even went, oh, after theylike, they declared like the
triple crown was now a thing.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Yeah, they retroactively went back to other
horses.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
That's nice that they did, yep yep, um, so there were
two other horses that had wonall three before.
Okay.
In 1935, Sir Barton.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Sir Barton.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
And Gallant Fox, and they were retroactively called
the Triple Crown winners, sothat's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
That is cool.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Then in 1937, War Admiral won it Sure did.
And he was the fourth officialTriple Crown winner, yep.
And then the Derby wasn't justa race by itself.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Yeah, it was a group.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Yeah, it was a group, yeah it became a kickoff for
the whole big spring celebrationWeeks long that everyone in the
country cared about, and allthose years of political
headaches and money problemswere gone.
Their Derby was about amazinghorses and the races that they
were in, right, okay, so the funpart.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Yay.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
Tradition, tradition, tradition.
Races that they were in right,okay, so the fun part yay
tradition, tradition why?
Speaker 2 (52:13):
why did we get spanish all of a sudden?
Speaker 1 (52:16):
it's russian.
Thank you, that was russian,that was the russian from
fiddler on the roof.
That's the most spanish russianI've ever heard that's from
fiddler on the roof, tevye orwhatever.
I no idea, it's been a longtime Tradition.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Okay, Okay, moving on .
Anyways, I would like to sotradition.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Hats and fashion.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Hats and fashion.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
So hats and fashion were basically taken directly
from Meriwether Clark's visionfrom Europe of the prestige of
the race Right.
So what I'm wearing today, yes,what is it called?
Do you know what these formalheadpieces are called that are
worn with a clip which mine is aclip or like a band or a
(52:58):
headband as an alternative for afancy hat?
Speaker 2 (53:02):
I don't know the name .
Speaker 1 (53:03):
It's called a fascinator.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
Yes, that's okay.
Yes, I did know that this is myfascinator.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
Yes, that's okay.
Yes, I did know that this is myfascinator.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
I didn't know.
That's actually what that wascalled.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
I have heard of fascinator before.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
Yep, and then there are fascinators that have a
little bit more of like a cap toit.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
Oh, yeah, and those are called hattinators.
Oh, well, yes, so fancy.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
I know.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
That is fascinating.
You will see the British royalfamily wearing a lot of Wearing
the hat-nators, the hat-nators,the fascinators and the fancy
hats.
I think Princess Kate wears alot of those, right, yep.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
So at one point between the 1980s through now,
the fashion kind of took achaotic turn.
We're talking pinatas as hats.
What Like a hat with a?
Speaker 2 (53:49):
I get, I get a horse pinata it was more of a
rhetorical like what?
Speaker 1 (53:54):
bird cages with live parakeets and mint julep hat
that dispenses actual mintjuleps.
Now that's practical.
Yes, it was super practical, Idon't know.
Like a pinata with candy in, itwould be great.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
I mean, that's what you would wear, but you wouldn't
go out, you'd just stay homewith it.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
No, I would stay home .
Speaker 2 (54:17):
I'm going to beat the shit out of this pinata and eat
my candy.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
But more recently it's more of a cross between a
royal wedding and, like MardiGras, with feathers.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
Right.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Okay, so now we have the mint julep.
Speaker 2 (54:28):
We do Well, like marty girl with feathers, right,
okay, so now we have the mintjulep.
We do well, we did.
Hey, look at, you can see more,since ice is melting.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Hey, kentucky derby, 2025, history buffoons yes, so
it was originally used formedicinal purposes in the south
for stomach aches and hangovers.
I'm not sure how, because thiscould make a hangover I just
just used it for medicinalpurposes.
Did you?
Yeah, what was your ailment?
It's weak, had to work.
(54:52):
Not sure how it could be usedmedicinally, but in 1938 it
became the signature drink atthe Derby Each year over a
two-day period, because there'slike a smaller race there's a
lot of races.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
Yeah, kentucky Oaks.
Yeah, yeah, there's.
Those are usually on Friday,and then there's races leading
up to the.
Derby all day on Saturdaythrough.
They have a lot of grass.
You know field races and umdare I say downs.
See what you did there.
Thanks yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
So pounds, see what you did there.
Thanks, yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:32):
So over a two-day period it's approximated that
they go through about 10 000bottles of kentucky derby or
kentucky bourbon kentucky derbyI think you've had a little too
much kentucky derby am I right10 000 bottles of kentucky
bourbon they also go through alot of lemonade too 2,250 pounds
of freshly harvested mint, andwe know how light mint is, yeah
(55:53):
that's a lot of fucking mint,holy shit.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
The beverage is served in an ice-frosted silver
julep cup, but most people sipit from souvenir glasses that
are revised each yearessentially.
Then we have Garland of Roses.
Yes, so a socialite named EBarry Wall.
Speaker 2 (56:15):
Okay, I don't understand the pause.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
I want you to ask me what E stands for, because I
actually looked it up thinkingyou were going to ask me what E
stands for.
Go ahead, ask me.
Ask me what does E stand for inE Barry Hall what does the e
stand for, kate?
Evander that was the weakestbuild-up ever, jesus I was like
(56:42):
he's gonna ask me what the estands for.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
I better look, and then the funny thing is, I
wasn't gonna do that evander.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
Okay.
So he, a socialite, passed outroses like post-derby party, to
like a bunch of women in 1883.
Right, and then in 1896, winnerBen Brush was draped with roses
and the crowd loved it.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
So this is pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
So then, the rose became the official flower of
the derby in 1904.
Yes, Okay.
And then in 1925, sports writerBill Corum coined the phrase
run for the roses.
Now it's a 40-pound garland.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
Yeah, that they drape over the back of the horse.
Speaker 1 (57:23):
Yeah, it smells like success and probably mild
allergies.
How many roses are stitchedinto the garland?
This is, I think, your lastquestion how many roses are
stitched onto the garland?
Speaker 2 (57:37):
I'm gonna go with ten thousand five, five, four, five
hundred fifty four right how'dyou know that?
Because you really randomly putyour hand up, which will be on
video.
There it is 554.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
The number is based on the length of the garland
which is usually about 122inches long from chest to flank.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (58:06):
So there's also a specific lattice pattern that
they're all arranged into andjust 554 just worked perfectly.
Speaker 2 (58:14):
Okay, fair enough.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
That's really the only reason for the number.
Speaker 2 (58:18):
Sure.
No, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (58:19):
But of course we also can't forget the iconic
grandstand.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
Nope, that's been around for a while.
The.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
Twin Spires, Yep.
It was built by 24-year-oldJoseph Dominique Valdez in 1895.
Jesus 24.
And it very quickly became asymbol of the Kentucky Derby and
Churchill Downs itself, yeah, Imean on a lot of their.
Speaker 2 (58:45):
I guess even we'll call it advertising they always
have the twin spires up thereand everything and it's very
noticeable and you have to havea lot of money today to sit on
that grandstand.
Speaker 1 (58:55):
Most people are just in the the infield yeah because
that's where all the thebuffoons sit the mid-tier below
mid mid-tier buffoons yeah well,there are a bunch of other
traditions, like there's akentucky song and and uh that
kind of kentucky home yeah um,but those were kind of the main
ones.
But, um, yeah, that is the uh,the two fastest minutes in
(59:22):
sports it's not called the twofast, the fastest two minutes in
sports the fastest two minutesin sports and the slowest
hangover in history.
The kentucky derby, what thefuck the slowest hangover.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
Do you already?
Have one, I mean no okay sothat's the history of the
kentucky derby I'm surprised youhaven't asked me who my
favorite horse is I know whatyour favorite horse has his
favorite horse is secretariat.
Speaker 1 (59:56):
Yes, and I think the most recent winner of the triple
crown was american pharaoh thatsounds right.
Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
That was a couple years back that was a few years
back.
I have the.
I have a couple bottles ofmaker's mark, because that's
kentucky bourbon.
Um, they do these specialbottles for old winners and
stuff.
Um, I have three of them.
I have justify american,pharaoh and seattle slew and
unopened, all unopened, which iskind of sad, but I'm just
(01:00:28):
kidding.
Um, they're pretty cool, I likethem, but I think, american or
no, is that the last one?
Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
I guess I'm drawing a blank.
Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
I want to say American Pharaoh is the last one
.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
It happened a couple years back but Secretariat has
always been my favorite horse,and it's not just because he was
the most one of the mostpopular, he was a fucking beast
we're gonna watch Secretariatfrom Disney yeah, with Diane
Lane honestly, I can't tell youenough how much I love this
(01:01:02):
movie.
You have said that I think I'veseen part of it once.
I don't think I've everactually seen the full movie.
Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Diane Lane is great and John Malkovich is in it oh
is he Mm-hmm.
And Lafayette from True Bloodis in it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
He passed away.
He did pass away.
That was really sad.
I like that guy.
Yeah, one of my favorites.
It has nothing to do with thethree horse races that were well
, kentucky Derby we're talkingabout, but involved the Triple
Crown, but one of my favoritehorses was Seabiscuit as well.
That movie.
I involved the triple crown,but one of my favorite horses
was sea biscuit as well.
That movie.
I really enjoy that movie withtoby mcguire and, uh what jeff
(01:01:42):
bridges and all that.
But, um, I don't think I'veever actually fully seen
secretariat.
If I do, I don't recall, butthat came out like at least 10
plus years ago now.
Right, oh yeah it's been out fora minute.
Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
But For sure, anyways , he had like an enlarged heart.
I guess when they Secretariatdid yeah.
I think when they, after hepassed away and they studied him
kind of thing, because he wasjust, he just destroyed
everybody at the Belmont.
Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
What's the animal version of an autopsy?
Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
I'm not sure.
Yeah, I think there's like aseparate name for it, so I'm
assuming that's what they didfor him, I would imagine, but uh
, he was a fucking beast autopsysure, I see what you did there.
I don't know if I like what youdid there, but I see what you
did there anyways, do you?
I I'm drawing a blank which,unfortunately, so obviously, the
(01:02:37):
kentucky derby is the run forthe roses um each.
Are you looking it up?
What are you looking up?
The horse?
So each, each race does have aspecific flower, and I want to
say necropsy necropsy okay Ihave heard that before.
Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
Yeah, I have too.
Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
I would not have pulled that anyways.
Um, each of the three races,though, does have their a
specific drink like, and eachone has a specific flower that
is associated with them.
I don't know what those are offthe top of my head yeah I love
the kentucky derby.
That's the one I always watch.
Typically I try and watch thepreakness.
(01:03:18):
If, no, if the same horsedoesn't win both, I usually
forget to watch I like to watchthe belmont and it's the longest
of the three races.
Um, that's why it's soimpressive what secretary did at
it, because he just literallydestroyed everyone else in that
race.
He beat them by like 10furlongs or whatever it was, but
(01:03:39):
I don't remember the drink orthe flower.
I think one's got like ablack-eyed Susan or something, I
don't fucking remember.
Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
Oh, that could be.
Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
I don't recall which race, each flower for each race,
but it's kind of cool that theydid that for a tradition type
standard.
Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
wait while we have kate type it in black height
susan that's it, yes and blackheight susan cocktail right that
is for the preakness okay andthen for the Preakness.
Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
Okay, and then for the Belmont yes, this is great
because you're just like peckingat it.
Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
No, don't allow.
Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Don't allow.
Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Hello, can you not find it?
Or did you fuck it?
Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
up, oh jesus, it doesn't even say it's, it's,
it's quite all right.
Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Well, I mean, now I feel like we have to finish this
.
So no, it's not all right.
Figured the fuck out whitecarnation really that sounds so
boring I didn't think that wasright, but okay, I guess I
didn't know, and the belmontbreeze that's what it is.
Yes, so I, I like the, the mintjulep, I like bourbon, so it's
(01:05:09):
white carnation interesting Ilike the roses better, Plus
red's my favorite color, so Didyou like my fascinator?
Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
Is it fascinating?
Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
I was fascinated by your fascinator.
I was even more fascinated howyou had trouble getting it on
with your head With myheadphones.
So where'd you go?
Oh, there you are, hey.
Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Yeah, it doesn't.
It's probably not like the bestpairing.
Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
But whatever it worked.
Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
So how'd you like your mint julep?
Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
It was delicious.
Once we're done here, I'm goingto go make another one.
Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
Yes, how do you feel about our first video?
Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
I'm undetermined.
Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
Same.
I haven't been able to washmyself, so that's probably a
saving grace.
Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
For the better.
We did video this.
That doesn't mean it will seethe light of day.
When I go through the editingprocess I will determine if this
gets released ever okay, so Ihad sovereignty and you had.
Burnham, burnham Square.
Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
Burnham Square Burnham.
Burnham Square, burnham.
Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Square.
Yes, stay tuned, folks, staytuned.
Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
Also.
Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
We're going to do a horse race on camera.
Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
It's going to be a short.
Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
We'll do a short.
Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
So find that on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Yeah, so, oh dear.
This is a bit ago my buddyPatrick and this is before he
moved out to the maryland areaum had a kentucky derby viewing
at his house and invited me overbecause he knows I like horse
racing too.
He and I always rather enjoyedit.
And uh, he bought this game andI'm like that's pretty fucking
(01:06:52):
cool.
So I bought it like the nextday kind of thing.
I have yet to use it.
So the only time I ever openedit was to put a battery in it,
so to make sure we have so itcould work.
Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
Can I name one of the horses?
Sovereignty.
Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
I mean, why don't we?
I'll name one as well, okay,burnham Square.
Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
That's fine.
As long as the winner isSovereignty, what?
As long as the winner issovereignty, what?
Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
What Anyways?
So we'll do a short on that ofour horse race and we'll try and
figure that out.
This will be interesting.
We are new to this videoportion of the podcast.
I don't know if this will work.
This is our first go.
I might even edit all this outif it doesn't work, because then
(01:07:40):
I can just put it on our normalpodcasting platforms.
Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
But anyways, I hope this works well.
Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Yeah calm the fuck down, I suppose.
Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
All right, buffoons, that's it for today's episode
buckle up, because we've gotanother historical adventure
waiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
explore.
Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
Hit us up on social media.
We're History Buffoons Podcaston YouTube X, instagram and
Facebook.
You can also email us athistorybuffoonspodcast at
gmailcom.
We are Bradley and Kate.
Music by Corey Akers.
Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn
those notifications on to stayin the loop.
Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to
rate and review us.
Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Remember the buffoonery never stops.
Love it, love it, Love it.
Oh, hey there, oh hey there, I'm Kate.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
And I'm Bradley.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
And this is History Buffins.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, on video.
Holy shit, this isnerve-wracking.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I don't likeins yeah on video Holy shit, this is
nerve-wracking.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I don't like it.
I don't like it one bit.
We have never done this before,because well.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
And I look like a goof.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I mean A buffoon.
That's where I was going to go.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Well, you can imagine , I am dressed like this for a
specific reason.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Do tell.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
The Kentucky Derby is coming up.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It sure is.
Yes, it's one of my favoritethings to watch each year.
It's the fastest two minutes insports, two minutes in sports
ever.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yes, yes, I um.
We are going to talk about thebiggest cosplay event outside of
any convention center.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I mean, is it cosplay ?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It kind of is.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I feel like in a way, it could be.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
These people don't dress like that.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Not normally.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Not with the hats.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
No, those are some giant fucking hats.
Yes, but uh, you know, I don'twear hats, I don't I want a big
noggin.
I know it's hard for me to findhats.
I have to order them online andI get too warm all the time, so
I usually don't wear hats.
Yeah, keeps too much heat in.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, that's why I put socks on.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
What, the what.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Because that's where my heat escapes.
Your heat escapes from yourhead.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Mine escape from my feet.
Yeah, so my oldest brotherlikes to.
He collects hats, kind of.
He'll always buy new ones andhe's always wearing them.
And I wasn't trying to flip youoff, I had an itch A fucking
itch.
I had a fucking itch.
So he'll buy hats all the timeand he gets the fitted ones, not
(02:04):
what the cool kids callsnapbacks.
These days, I just call thosehats.
I had an argument with a kidwho was like 10 years younger
than me about it once at workBecause of their hats.
He calls them snapbacks.
I'm like they're just calledfucking hats or caps.
There's hats or fitted hats.
I guess that's where my brainwent, but either way, yeah, we
(02:28):
can never find fitted ones thatfit my head though, yeah,
whereas my brother can.
So apparently I got the largedome in the family.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Ouch Feel bad for your mother.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Well, you know, epidural.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I wouldn't know.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well, no, neither would you, no, no I wouldn't,
okay, tell, tell us what we'redrinking today.
So I made us, uh, mint juleps,because that's the official
beverage of the kentucky derby.
Kate is not what you would calla big bourbon person at all, so
I did tell her that if shecan't get through this, it's
(03:11):
kind of fogging up from the cold, from the ice, did you find it?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So Kate was so nice to get us.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
You can't tell.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
No, well, we'll take a picture when they're not so
cloudy, from the, from the ice.
But uh, kate was nice enough toget us mint julep cups with um,
that was weird.
What was that?
I don't know what I did wasthat your stomach growling?
No promise I'm very full yes,but uh, she got us some in julep
julep cups with that actuallysay Phone's 2025 on it.
(03:44):
So we're commemorating ourfirst ever video with Julep cups
oh please.
There we go Drink from thebottom.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Do I have to touch the bottom?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
That's preferred, unless you want a whole bunch of
bourbon right away.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
That's a piece of mint, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
You'll get that from time to time.
Oh, that's fucking good.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I can't go to the bottom because nothing's soaking
up.
There we go.
That's minty.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, it is a mint julep.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
It's very sweet.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yes, it's from the simple syrup, for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So what's the ingredients?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Bourbon to make the simple syrup.
Was that a strong one?
The sweet one actually okay, um, you can buy like pre-made
simple syrup.
I just make my own because it'sjust water and powdered.
Wow that was mint, um powderedsugar and water to make my own,
and then obviously the mintbourbon and I used.
(04:47):
The recipe I got all theseyears ago was uh, with you, just
top it off with some white soda.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I usually use sprite, so yeah, but yeah cheers, don't
choke drinking the mint, pardon, me okay, so you also I did
print it off the odds and thehorses so we can, so we can try
(05:17):
to pick which one is gonna winyou said you like sovereignty
for the name.
Yes, yes, I think that name ispretty nice.
I like it, it's a nine to twoodds, which I don't understand.
The odds.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I am still the two specifically.
I'm probably wrong because I'ma buffoon, but I think that's
the favorite.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Oh, you think so.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I believe.
I am not 100% sure.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
But you could probably look it up real quick
if you want to.
I really don't Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I'm going to pick Sovereignty solely on the name,
because out of all the names, Ireally like that one.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I mean, I like it.
That's a good name.
I am going to go with BurnhamSquare.
I like that one.
That's a good name, yeah that'smy, that's my eight and one
odds, not terrible, he's out ofthe number one, so he might get
pushed against the the fence,but you know I um.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I also like the name citizen bull I do like that one
yes and owen and Owen Almighty.
I think that's great, yeah.
And then Flying Mohawk I thinkthat's pretty epic.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
That's a pretty great one.
I'm not going to lie FlyingMohawk.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Who doesn't like that ?
And California Burrito.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
California.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Burrito, but my pick is Sovereignty Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Mine's Burnham Square .
So we will see who, if eitherof us even come close and uh get
those picks right.
But uh, let's uh learn somehistory on the derby on the
biggest cosplay event outside ofa convention center.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Okay I feel like I've heard that before so I this is
actually going to be a little ofa Q&A yes, there's only 11
questions, okay, so it's notlike rapid fire or anything,
right, but you know a lot abouthorse racing.
You know enough.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
I know a decent amount.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
You had a horse.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I did have a horse.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
yes, and what was her name?
Her regular name was Molly.
And what was her racing name?
Is that what you would call it?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Her, her, so she wasn't or like a certified name.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I don't know how that works.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I'm trying to remember the what they called it
, so she wasn't a racehorse, she, uh, she was just in like the
hunter jumpers, which is likegoing over fences and stuff and
whatever.
Uh, uh, her name for that wasindulgence.
Oh, that's sweet yeah I likethat too.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I didn't pick it.
I like it though.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
No, I do too yeah but her name was molly and she was
a sweet horse and she loved meyeah, it was great.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
What kind of horse was she?
Do you recall she was athoroughbred does that not help
you?
Yeah, well, I was expecting,like an Arabian horse.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
That's a different than a thoroughbred or a.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Pelomino.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
That's different than both of those, oh, okay.
Different than a quarter horse,different than a Pertron, a
Clydesdale.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I thought it was like an overall general horse.
No, and then there are.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
A thoroughbred is a specific type of horse, oh, I
didn't know that that is theonly type of horse you will see
in the derby okay, yeah whenmost of them will be male.
Once in a while you'll see afemale and one or two sometimes
in the races, but most of themare males typically.
But you will see some okayfemale horses race.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Well, do you know how far back horse racing goes?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I'm going to go to when we domesticated horses.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Way before that.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
So there was horse racing before we domesticated
horses.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I mean, can you really domesticate horses?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I mean yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I mean, can you really not domesticate them?
Well, yeah, you have wildhorses, I suppose so I mean
those still exist somewhere inthe world, I'm sure they really
do.
Yeah, it's a real thing well,the very first race actually
does remain a mystery, becauseit wasn't written down so it was
before, uh, written history.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Basically, I don't know Fair enough.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
But we do know that ancient Greeks were pretty
serious about it, oh really.
They had chariot races.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Oh, sure, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, and bareback riding events in their Olympics.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah, chariots of fire.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
So that was between 700 and 40 BC.
Holy shit, yeah, so a long timeago.
Wow, and they loved their horseracing.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I'm sure they did.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
It was a big organized public event.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
So then, beyond Greece and Rome, the details get
a little fuzzy.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
But China, persia, arabia, north Africa are likely
in on it as well.
Right, and then those areaswere pretty good with
horsemanship, sure, and that'swhere we get the horses like the
Arabian horse, the Barb and theTurk horses.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
And I guess that's kind of why I thought maybe
these are thoroughbreds, youknow like a subsect, I guess is
what I was kind of thinking of.
Yeah, no, they're a specifictype yeah, so um in medieval
england, horse races um startedbecoming like a sales pitch oh
so professional riders wouldshow off horses speed for
(10:39):
potential buyers.
Oh, gotcha, and richard thelionheart even put up a prize, a
whopping 40 pounds for a threemile race with knights on the
saddles like actual knights,like sword and everything yeah
yeah, lance a lot kind of night.
Yeah, oh wow, yeah nice and thenin the 16th century, henry the
(10:59):
eighth, oh um, brought in sometop notch horses from it Italy
and Spain, probably, barbs, okayand they started their own
breeding programs, gotcha.
So the 17th century saw thatJames, I was sponsoring races in
England and Charles I was quitea horse enthusiast.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
How so.
He owned a stable of 139 horsesHoly shit, that's a lot of
horses.
Well, I would say that's anenthusiast.
How so he owned a stable of 139horses?
Holy shit, that's a lot ofhorses.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Well, I would say that's an enthusiast.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
I mean, I would say that's a connoisseur, holy shit.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
That's an over-the-top connoisseur.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I mean, he had the funds.
What do you think of it?
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That was bourbon.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
That was a whole lot of bourbon in that drink.
That's all right, we broughtyou a backup beer just in case.
Yes, we did.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So in France the first recorded race happened in
1651.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Okay, who won?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
It was a battle between two noblemen.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So it was just a two-person race.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yep Gotcha no idea Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
One of the noblemen won One of the two won Well.
I mean, you're not wrong, we'lljust say that.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Hopefully they finished.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Well, I mean, I would think, so Under.
Louis XIV, did you have tocount the V-I-I's and all that?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
The.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
X-I-V I like the hand gestures too, x-i-v.
Do you think people used to dothat outside of his palace and
shit?
Why did you say why?
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I don't know, I am so glad Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Oh, by the working men.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Shut up.
So under Louis XIV, horseracing got really popular, and
that's when they kind of startedgetting gambling involved.
Okay, and he decided to get alittle bit more organized and he
created a jockey club gotchaand he set up, like more of the
like, official rules.
Okay, so he required horses tohave proof of their origins and
(13:02):
made foreign horses carry extraweight in races, which I'm not
sure why interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Maybe they're not thoroughbreds, maybe not, but
why would they have to wear,carry extra weight?
Speaker 1 (13:15):
maybe so that they're all.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Their weight is somewhat equal I mean, I guess
maybe so, like if the horseweighed, we'll just use pounds,
because that's what we use 100pounds, but this horse weighs
120.
You had to put 20 pounds on theother horse, yeah, kind of
thing.
Or like what their armorweighed and all or whatever.
They wore kind of thing yeah Iwonder yeah, I mean, very well
could be and also, did theytrain with the weight?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
because if not, then damn damn they'd be like what's
this extra 20?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
pounds.
Do you think the horse would belike man?
You put on some fucking weight.
Maybe lay off the rotisseriechicken.
Are you hungry all of a suddenagain?
No, okay.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
So across the pond in North America hey, that's us.
Organized racing started whenthe British took over New
Amsterdam, which was New York,in 1664.
Right, okay so, colonel RichardNichols was a British commander
and he set up a two mile racecourse on Long Island and named
it New Market after the famousBritish track.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, so I feel like my headphones are slipping.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Because of your.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Maybe Okay.
I feel like my headphones areslipping Because of your Maybe
Okay.
So he even offered a silver cupas a prize for the best horse.
Hey, and then, up until theCivil War, the focus in American
racing was on stamina asopposed to speed.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Okay, so distance more than Mm-hmm Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
More than speed, yeah , but after the war, speed
became the name of the game.
And then, and they startedmodeling the races after the
british system gotcha okay.
So kentucky's reputation as aprime location for breeding top
tier racehorses has roots thatgo back pretty far.
Sure, john Filson was an authorof the 1784 book, the Discovery
(15:09):
Settlement and Present State ofKentucky, ending in an E, not a
Y.
Really Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Kentucky.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
That's weird.
I've never seen that before.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
He highlighted a bunch of the area's natural
advantages.
Okay, so horses weren't reallyany kind of focus in his book,
but it it painted more of avivid picture of, like the, the
climate and the landscape andand and the resources of what we
know as kentucky right so theearly promotion of kentucky's
abundance contributed to theregion's later association with
(15:43):
successful breeding horses.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Okay.
So even before Kentuckyofficially became a state,
Louisville was already deep intohorse racing.
What do you call it?
Louisville, louisville,louisville.
These are funny, it's fine,it's fine.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Everything's fine.
I believe in you.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I still look pretty right.
Oh, that's great.
So, well done.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So they were starting to have issues with the races
being in the middle of town, andso the city leader started
pushing for proper race tracksto be built.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Oh, I see Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
So they realized that things were just getting, they
were just getting unorganizedand the downtown streets were
getting busy.
So that kind of paves the wayfor Meriwether Clark.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Meriwether Clark.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Do you know who he might be named after Meriwether?
Meriwether Clark?
Do you know who he might benamed after Meriwether?
This is your first question, bythe way.
Who is Meriwether Clark namedafter?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Lewis and Clark.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yes, good job.
Yeah, you're looking at it.
His full name is MeriwetherLewis Clark.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Well, fucking A-rated it is.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
And he is.
I think he was the grandson ofClark.
Oh, really yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Oh, so they're actually related.
Okay, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Good job on your first question.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Well, thank you, you're very welcome.
Sweet Time to go.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Whoa.
So Clark traveled abroad toEurope a lot and he witnessed
something that America didn'thave at the time.
What?
So Clark traveled abroad toEurope a lot and he witnessed
something that America didn'thave at the time.
What?
Was that Horse racing for thefancy.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
For the fancy For the fancy.
You mean like fancy people?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Oh shit.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Like the top tier people, not them bottom tier
people who are we?
We're mid-tier.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Mid-tier.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
At best.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
That's very high of ourselves.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I mean shoot for the stars right.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Those are the top-tier people.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Well, that's what we're shooting for, okay, or at
whatever.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
So his experience over in Europe, he sparked an
idea to create a jockey club inLouisville, Gotcha to create a
jockey club in louisville,gotcha, and he aimed both to
promote races and also showcasethe city's top notch horses
essentially okay.
Two years later, in 1874, he hedid make it happen, building a
racetrack on land owned by hisuncles.
(18:17):
Oh, john and henry churchillnumber question number two what
is the name of the track?
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Churchill Downs.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Correct.
And question number three doyou know what Downs?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
means Well, in this day and age it's a sickness or
whatever.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Down syndrome, you're not wrong.
But, that was a direction I wasnot expecting.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I couldn't pass that up.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
So, before formal racetracks existed, horse races
were often held on naturalgrassy plains, which were
referred to as downs.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Oh, I did not know that, okay.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
So historically it indicated often rolling grassy
terrain um, and the trackofficially opened its gates,
known as churchill downs, on may17th 1875 and the very first
kentucky derby was held that dayand do you know like this one
(19:19):
is the 151st running of the so Idon't, I don't get that well,
because they this is the 151sttime they're running it, because
it started then, so it ranright away.
See, and that's what confusedme.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Because you think it should only be 150.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Because I was like this would be 150 this time, but
I was like, why is it 151?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Because it's 150 if you just go off of years.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
But it's actually happening this year.
But it's actually happeningthis year 151st time.
Yeah correct.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Well, we just missed it by a year.
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Well, no, it was, we watched it last year.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I would dress up like this at the 567th song.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Or the 12th, who knows.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Whatever Back in time , who was the very first?
This is question number four.
I'm not going to get this right.
Who was the very first?
This is question number four.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I'm not going to get this right?
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Who was the very first horse that won?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Very first horse that won.
I have no fucking idea.
I had to phonetically spell itout oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
So bear with me.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I always do.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Aristides.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Say it one more time Aristides.
Aristides, I have never heardof that horse.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Aristides.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Interesting yes.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So the Kentucky Debr Error.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Hold on, this will help.
Well, it usually does.
I'm plowing through mine, so Ishould have brought a beer too.
Wow, that was something.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Woo Woo, you can move to the beer if you'd like.
That's tasty, it is really good.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
I kind of wish I had two of them.
I should maybe set mine downfor a minute.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
The Kentucky Derby was first run at a mile and a
half.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yes, the Epsom Derby in England was run at a distance
of a mile and a half, right?
Yes, the Epsom Derby in Englandwas run at a distance of a mile
and a half.
Yes, and that influencedClark's decision to run the
derby at the same distance.
Okay.
However, the mile and a halfwas later deemed a little bit
too demanding for thoroughbreds.
Okay, especially so early on inthe racing season.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
So they shortened it to a mile and A quarter.
A quarter, that's right, aquarter.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
You mean like 25 cent 25 cent.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Okay, next question.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
How old do the horses have to be to compete?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Three years old.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Correct.
So they have to have reachedtheir third year.
That means the horse only hasone opportunity in his lifetime
to compete in the Kentucky Derby.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Correct.
Do you know what the horse'stypical birthday is?
Speaker 1 (21:55):
No.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
January 1st why.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Just to make it all even.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Apparently I never understood that.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
The ex always told me I never fucking understood and
I didn't look into it, butapparently never fucking
understood and I didn't lookinto it, but apparently I mean
it would make sense if, ifsomeone is like I don't know
three years and 11 months rightor, excuse me, two years and 11
months.
It's like we can't quite makeit, but if your birthday was
just but see, and then that'sthe thing like.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
If you wait another year, you're almost four years
old yeah, so it's like.
So I don't know if that hashonestly something to do with it
, but I always thought that wasa really kind of a weird thing
that apparently all theirbirthdays in quotes again are
January 1st.
At least that's what she toldme.
She could be wrong.
She was wrong about a lot ofthings.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
So when I get my cats I don't remember shit.
So I don't remember when I gotthem, but I kind of thereabouts
know the month, so the first ofthe month.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
You're right.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Is their birth date.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
No, I get that.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Except for Oliver, because unfortunately we had our
little baby Simon pass awayNovember 16th in 2020.
Right, and we got Oliver twodays before Christmas, oh, okay,
2020.
And we're like are we ready foranother one, are we not?
Right, you, christmas 2020.
And we're like are we ready foranother one, are we not?
So his is like really the onlybirth date other than the babies
(23:12):
.
I know when the babies wereborn because I was there.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
So is that the gotcha date or the birth date?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
So excuse me, you're right, Oliver is my gotcha date,
so that is his birth date.
For us, Penny and Frankie, it'sthe first of whatever month we
chose.
And then Penny's babies, Bonnieand Amos.
We actually do know their birthdates Well because you actually
had them as kittens and allthat yes.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Whereas for one of my cats of the three remaining I
know specifically when she wasborn Because I was there, which
I still love, if she was born on6, 6 of 06.
So it's really is that wicked?
Yep, well, baby, wicked, she'sso sweet I got to see her mama,
(23:58):
uh jasper, birth her in the farmin the, in the barn up in the
hayloft.
So I love the but yeah, so Iactually got to see her, see her
be born.
So that's awesome, yeah becausewe knew she was going to pop
soon.
And sure shit, sure shit, thereit was.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
So okay, so yes thoroughbreds are a specific
breed of horse known for theirspeed and agility.
Yes, making them the idealbreed for racing, correct?
So horses must all also qualifyfor the kentucky derby earning
points, like there's a wholepoint system, um, in designated
(24:39):
races called road to thekentucky derby yeah, they have a
bunch ofhmm that they're racingpretty much months up to and
even, I think, the prior year,if I'm not mistaken.
I don't recall that part.
Okay, but there are a specificnumber of races in the Road to
(25:00):
the Kentucky Derby, gotcha.
Next question how many racesare there?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
That I'm not.
I don't know the answer to that36.
Holy shit, yeah, shit, yeah,way more than I was gonna guess.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I was gonna go with like five so this system ensures
that the horses competing inthe derby are amongst the best
of their age group well, whichmakes sense.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You don't want some guy who, some horse that just
got lucky on this race.
Oh, you get to go to the derbynow, yeah, but yeah, he would
have sucked the next 20 races,kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
So yeah, it weeds out yeah the not as good horses
yeah, oh, but they're still socute.
Oh, like, we'll keep you mollycould have never raced in the
derby but she was fuckingadorable yeah so now, despite
kentucky, the kentucky derby'sinitial popularity, yeah mr
merriweather lewis Clark didn'thave a great management style.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Well, that really fucked shit up.
I worked for a company thatdidn't have a good management
style either.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I know I've known about that with you Fucking
terrible.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah, here's to you.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah Fuckers.
No, let's not Nope.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Clark prioritized extravagant social events over,
so he was using it as a statusthing more than what it actually
was.
Yeah, okay, makes sense.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
So he catered a lot to wealthy patrons and he aimed
to make Churchill Downs afashionable destination for the
elite.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Is that why they wear big hats?
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Oh, we're going to talk about that.
Yeah, we are.
But his pursuit in the socialprestige, clark, neglected the
day-to-day operations.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
See, that's not good for a business.
No, Because that's ultimatelywhat it is.
I mean, it's horse racing, andhorse racing is a business.
You need to kind of focus onthat part too.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Let's just say he lacked the necessary, necessary
competence we got there.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
That was a rough road .
I also lack the necessarycompetence I mean, I hope you
don't expect an argument shut upso his mismanagement
unfortunately led to financialinefficiencies and a lack of
profitability.
Yeah, and that it's funnybecause, like, obviously he's
(27:15):
the one who started it and it'sit's still going.
Today we're talking about it,uh, we're getting ready for the
race and yet he fucked it up sodid someone swoop in and save it
?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
so so yes, 1886.
Good year Also, yes, but theKentucky Derby almost imploded
over what basically started as asmall-time argument.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
It all kicked off when Churchill Downs locked out
bookmakers who weren't payingtheir dues.
Oh, ruh-roh, ruh-roh.
So James Ben Ali Hagen what aname.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I love it.
That's quite.
I love it.
Can you say it one more time,just for James Ben Ali Hagen.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
He was a big shot.
New York gambler.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
And a horse owner and he had a whole bunch of like
top horses to race at the trackright.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
So he was furious about the bookies being gone.
Okay.
But, he still ran his horse,Ben Ali Ben.
Ali, he fucking named his horseafter himself.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
What a vain character Douche, what a douche?
Douche canoe.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
But ali won imagine that imagine that but, then
hagen dropped a bombshell.
If the boogies didn't come back, he was pulling all of his
horses and he was out of here.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
He was leaving, so he had that much pull.
Yeah, that it mattered he hadthat much pull.
Yeah, that it mattered.
He had basically all the horses.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
If he pulled the horses, there was no horses.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Well, that would be a problem for a horse race.
I love the cross-eyed lookevery single time you take a sip
.
It's fucking amazing.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
It's the powdered sugar, simple syrup.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Because, yeah, it's not powdered sugar anymore.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I like the mint, I like the bourbon.
I'm thinking maybe no simplesyrup and just the sprite.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
See what that tastes like we can do that for you next
time for me yeah, yeah, I likethe simple syrup.
I feel like I didn't put enoughin mine, but my drink's almost
gone which is also sad we mighthave to do a.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I feel like I didn't put enough in mine, but my
drink's almost gone, which isalso sad we might have to do a
bridge.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Let's keep going.
Let's trudge on here, okay, so.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Higgins, haggins.
Haggin, pulling his horses wasa major deal.
It was a big threat.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Without his horses, the whole racing season,
including next year's Derby,would be a major flop, Right.
So for a moment it looked likethey kind of dodged a bullet.
The bookies and the trackreached a quick deal.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
A track official couldn't keep his mouth shut,
though.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
What did he?
Speaker 1 (30:11):
say he basically told everyone that he thought Hagen
Sorry, rewind he basically toldHagen what he thought of him and
where to go.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
To tell him to go to H-E Double Hockey Sticks.
Yes, holy shit, that isscandalous.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
And of course it got right around to Hagen, hagen's
all, like he said what about me?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
No, he didn't.
No, he didn't.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
So the next morning Hagen was gone, stables were
completely empty my horses wereleaving, load the train he
packed out.
He packed up just like he saidhe would.
A little spat nearly killed thegolden goose.
So sad I think I'm getting alittle loopy on this.
Okay, a little.
(31:08):
So Hagen went back to New York.
He convinced all of the otherbig-name horse owners from the
East Coast with top-performinghorses, to boycott Churchill
Downs.
Yeah, so the effect wasdevastating.
Oh, dear.
And remember Kentucky wasn'tthe horse-racing powerhouse that
it is today.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Correct, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
They couldn't keep the track or the derby running
on their own, so interest in thein the race just tanked.
Oh, and they were gettingfields which I'm assuming is
like a group of racing horses ofonly three or four sub par
horses oh, so they're getting,like they're getting the mids,
not the top tier.
Yeah, like the buffoons.
(31:49):
Hello hi, bradley, we're stillhere, hey we'll show up.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
You can tell kate doesn't drink this type of drink
much, very often.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
I drink beer, not liquor, I know sure okay but you
know clark tried to keep thingsafloat, even working without
pay and using his own money tocover debts.
But Churchill Downs wasbleeding money anyway and by
1894, the local paper wasbasically calling the Derby a
joke.
Oh shit, the track wentbankrupt.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
What did you do?
Speaker 1 (32:33):
I don't know Something moved on the computer,
but why?
I don't know something moved onthe computer, but why?
I don't know.
The track went bankrupt andclark completely heartbroken.
Stepped down well, I meanstepped down at churchill downs
he stepped churchill down Isorry, what was that?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Did you burp?
I did.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Finally, I'm not the only one.
It's because I'm not drinkingbeer.
That's why.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I will release the burp track if you don't shut the
fuck up.
Yeah, that's right.
That's what I thought, anyways,so it's.
I don't know what you'retalking about.
I do.
So the funny thing is, jesusChrist, this might have been the
wrong episode to start.
Holy shitballs.
Pretty good, right, it's gone,am I right?
(33:23):
I was trying to say something,but then you were being all
Katie.
I didn't mean it to sound likethat, kate E why at the end?
Ah, jesus, fuck, sorry aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, that wasn't intended.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I haven't been called that since last week by a
student.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Well, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
She called me Katie and and I was like what?
Speaker 2 (33:52):
but see, I didn't actually call you katie, I
called you kate.
It wasn't intended for that.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I apologize, kate okay, you're being all kate.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, fucking derailing shit.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Okay, so for those of you who don't know, Katie is my
real name.
I just prefer Kate.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yes, you go by Kate and you have her a very long
time.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
So that's why I feel bad calling her that, because it
wasn't intended.
So, anyways, can we movefucking past this for the love
of God, okay?
Speaker 1 (34:25):
So tragically.
Clark never recovered fromstepping down and basically
losing the derby, and five yearslater he was found dead.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Oh, shit did.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
We know why so or how I should say, gunshot wounds
like he was gunned down or hekilled himself.
It's unknown historians don'teven know like what happened, if
it was self-inflicted or if itwas murder.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
That is fucking wild, really.
Mm-hmm.
Wow, I had never heard thatbefore.
I also didn't really know muchabout him.
To be honest, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
But after that a group of investors bought
Churchill Downs and gave it amakeover, building the famous
grandstand with the twin spires.
They also shortened thedistance to a mile and a quarter
.
At this time, Right.
And they started a tradition ofgiving the winning horse a
(35:20):
blanket of roses, which led tothe race being called.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Race of the Roses.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Run for the Roses.
Run for the.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Roses.
Yeah, fuck, I knew that.
That's all right, I meant tosay run.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
And even with the changes, the boycott actually
did continue to drag on.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Oh shit.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Plus, new management cut the prize money, so trainers
took their best horseselsewhere.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Which I mean.
That's why they're in it.
So can you stop doing that,yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
You are on fucking camera right now.
I can't see myself.
Attendance did keep droppingand the Derby was still getting
small, weak fields, sure.
So a group of forces, rightyeah, fields, yeah.
So by 1902, the investors werepretty much done.
They wanted to get rid ofChurchill Downs basically a
financial burden and pass it onto somebody else.
So just when things lookedcompletely hopeless, along comes
(36:12):
Colonel Matt J Winn W-I-N-N.
He was a merchant tailor andnot a big horse track kind of a
person.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Just a business guy.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
He's a businessman, exactly, but he had a lifelong
obsession with the Derby becausehe saw Astricities win as a kid
.
Oh, really yes.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah.
So Wynn took over as a vicepresident and later general
manager and he had this amazingcharm and business sense, sure,
and he started personallyreaching out to, like old
louisville fans who used to goto the track offering them seats
for the 1903 derby nice, and itworked.
(37:01):
They brought their friends win,made sure everyone had a great
time and they, they did, keptcoming back.
So he like personally invited,sure, all these people, hey you
like churchill downs.
You know several years ago.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Please come back like here's a ticket.
That's a nice touch, though,because it's a personal touch,
where it's like he's actuallyinviting these people instead of
just being like hey, you shouldspend money here yeah kind of
thing, yeah, exactly the peoplefelt welcomed and wanted, I
guess.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
And for the first time in ages, Churchill Downs
did make a profit.
Wow.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
And you said 03?
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Okay, so things were looking up.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Oh, I'm sorry, people used to say, oh, three Anyways.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Do you want to wear this?
I kind of do, now you don'thave hair for it.
It'd have to be like a beardclip.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
That would be fucking fantastic.
Maybe I'll do that for nextyear's episode stay tuned, folks
probably won't happen.
The beard, the beard thing,that is an episode I'm hoping
okay so anyways things werelooking up.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
The the derby was still struggling a little bit to
attract more than a few localhorses and the local fans, right
.
But then there was anotherproblem the whole country was
going through an anti-gamblingreform phase.
Oh yeah, and in 1907, thereformers took over Louisville
City Hall and banned bookmakingat Churchill Downs.
(38:24):
That's wild.
And banned book making atChurchill Downs.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
That's wild Podcast gold.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Very minty though.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Mint gold.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
That was the only way people bet on horses.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Right Was through the bookkeeping Sure.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
So Wynn was stuck the general manager Yep, so he
could either use theseold-fashioned auction pools.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Which were basically for rich people, or these new
French Paris Moutel.
What is that now?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I don't know either.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Paris Moutel, paris Moutel Machines, I don't know,
okay, I don't know.
Pare-mutel, pare-mutel Machines, I don't know, okay, I don't
know.
Anyways, auction pools theywere like live horse auction,
but for betting.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
So each horse was, like, auctioned off to the
highest bidder, who basicallyowned that horse for bidding
purposes.
So spectators bid on the horsesbefore the race.
The highest bidder for eachhorse owned that bet pool gotcha
if that horse won, the ownergot the entire pool minus the
house cut okay and then youcould also buy partial shares,
(39:41):
and horses too, so like buyingstock in a horse with no
financial stability.
The problem with that it waspretty sketchy.
It was open to manipulation, itfavored the wealthy and the
well-connected.
Sure, and extremely confusingand chaotic for, like casual
fans who were like wanting tolike, try their bed you know,
maybe hit a couple bucks orwhatever yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
So the paris motels can you stop saying that sorry,
but that's what it's called.
I know, but you say it's Sorry,but that's what it's called.
I know, but you say it so weird.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
You don't know what it's called anyway.
I don't know it's probablyright.
I mean it's probably right,Probably Paris Moutels is French
for mutual betting.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
And they were kind of perfect for this situation.
They were fair, allowed smallbets and got rid of the bogey
corruption.
All right.
So those were first used at theKentucky Derby in 1908.
Okay, and it replaced auctionpools after public demand for
fairness and transparency.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
And all bets.
Basically all bets go into apool and the odds fluctuate
based on how much a bet is oneach horse Right After the house
or tax cut.
The pool is then divided amongthe winning bets.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Okay, so it's also a machine.
So in the early 20th century,mechanical machines were used to
calculate the odds and payoutsin real time.
No app, no Wi-Fi, just gearsand cranks and sweaty math guys.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
They didn't have Wi-Fi back then.
I know right, so weird.
Oh my God, stop moving Wiffy,stop fucking it up.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
So it won.
Stop, I'm not used to.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
MacBooks.
Yeah, I know, sorry about that.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
It's okay.
It was more fair, moretransparent, it allowed anyone
to bet small amounts Right, andit let the actual betting public
influence the odds, not justthe rich auctioning bullies.
But they hadn't been popular inAmerica before, okay.
I mean it was Frosch right?
(41:54):
Frosch Clark even had them andfailed to use them.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
So still, wynn went with the mutual betting machines
.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
You're welcome.
You can say what they are, Idon't mind.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
The city dug up some old law banning machine betting.
Because they're in this reformstage this anti-betting stage.
So the city was like not allowed, so win was left with nothing
but those auction pools, whichwere sure to be banned soon,
right?
So it looked like the derby andchurchill downs were sure to be
banned soon, right?
So it looked like the Derby andChurchill downs were going to
(42:29):
be doomed again.
But Wynn and the trackpresident, charlie Granger, were
desperate to figure out howClark had legally used those
machines.
Buried deep in legal code wasan amendment excluding these
mutual betting machines from theanti-machine gambling law.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
That's fucked up.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
That's just what the research said.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
No, I get that, but isn't that wild that there's
some random amendment to this.
That just said these are coolnot those.
Fuck those's like.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
That's just wild yeah , just like, and they found it a
loophole, basically.
Yeah, exactly, that's crazy sothere was still a little bit of
a problem.
They didn't have any of thesemachines.
Of course, not importing themwould take too long and nobody
knew where clark's old machineshad gone, because he did use
those in the past.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
So were they like buried in a basement or some
random?
We actually don't really know.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
That's wild win rallied the whole town to search
for them, suspecting the citywas trying to destroy them oh,
and they found four of clark'smachines, but we I don't know
where it wasn't part of, likethe research that I had sure but
um, win did also get a couplefrom a new york track, so he had
a good abundance of them.
(43:54):
Okay, um, but they were all interrible shape and the mechanics
had to work like crazy tofreaking fix them before the
derby right.
So then the city was like,excuse me by the way you can't
do and they threatened to arresteveryone involved in the
betting.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Isn't that wild that they can just threaten to arrest
everybody?
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Wynn took them to court.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
And won and won Wynn won.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Wynn won.
Wynn won.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Wynn won for the horses.
And the Doby was back onFucking writer was go win, you
won.
I can't stop, I need to pleasestop.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
I will, ironically, all the drama.
Boosted attendance.
Oh, I'm sure it did.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Oh my god, the publicity I mean it's amazing
even how one side was trying tomake it negative still, really
kind of said.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
And they kind of say all press is good press.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Whether it's positive or negative, it just gets your
name out.
There is what they're saying.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
So these mutual betting machines were a huge hit
, with betting five times higherthan the previous year.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Oh, geez, wow, that's quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Wynn said that the machine saved racing in Kentucky
.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Sounds that way.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Mm-hmm, but the Derby was still just kind of a local
event.
Yeah, it's fucking dumb.
Wynn needed something bigger,some national attention.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
And it happened national.
Some national attention okayand it happened in 1913 a huge
long shot named donna rail.
Donna rail won the derby.
Yeah two dollar bet, paying out184.90 that'd be pretty good
back then.
It was a 91 to 1 odds.
(45:48):
Holy fuck 91 to 1.
He was the biggest long shotever To win the derby.
Today that would be about 6million dollars.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Holy shit, really, that's fucking amazing.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
I know 91 to 1.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
What was his name?
Again, donner Rail.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Donner Rail in 1913.
Wow.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Six million dollars, could you fucking.
I mean obviously inflation, butcould you imagine, holy shit,
that would change someone's life.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
It became a.
He became a national sensation.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
I'm sure he did.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
When seized this moment and burped I mean he went
to the east coast and convincedthe influential businessman
harry pain whitney okay to runhis philly regret okayret in the
(46:48):
Derby.
Now it's filly.
Yes Is that a type ofthoroughbred, because I thought
you said thoroughbreds were theonly ones.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
It's a female.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Oh, filly means a female.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
I do believe that's right.
Oh, I'm on a thump.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Yeah, okay, her name is Regret.
I'm pretty sure, unless I'mtotally just fucking getting my
shit wrong in 1915 regret oneshe had no regret she was the
first philly to do so there yougo whitney was ecstatic I'm sure
winning the derby was enough,even if she never won another
(47:22):
race, right.
But when said that regrets.
When made the Derby an Americaninstitution, it literally put
them over the top.
So things were starting to takea turn for the better after the
boycott also ended.
Suddenly the Derby was pullingin these huge fields like 20 or
more top-notch horses every year.
Yep, and Matt Wynn was a masterat getting press on his side.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Sure Sounds like it.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
He'd wind down these influential journalists, print
and radio guys, and they'd writethese glowing reports about the
Derby and that's how the racereally started getting this
national spotlight.
So in the mid-1920s, ChurchillDowns was bursting at the seams
with like 80,000 people showingup for the race Right.
(48:08):
The first radio broadcast ofthe Derby was in 1925.
And they were afraid that withthis broadcast.
It would mean less people inthe stands.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Because they didn't have to go there, right?
No, I can understand that.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
It was the exact opposite.
There were five to six millionlisteners, which was a record
for any broadcast at the time,with over pretty much half the
country turning, tuning up,turning in, but that also didn't
look like deter people fromgoing.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Yes, yes, it was just like it drew people.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Oh my gosh it did yes , but then the great depression
hit oh, people were sad but, but, it made racing even more
popular.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Right, because it was an escape.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Ten states legalized these mutual betting machines to
get some extra cash revenueSure Tax revenue, not cash Tax
revenue.
And suddenly horse racing was,like the most the most popular
sport in the country no for sure, because again.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
So I mean there was baseball back then.
Obviously football wasn't evenreally a thing at that time.
There was college footballstill and the nfl wasn't.
You know, it's kind of notthere yet.
It was teams were around but itwas like I mean, look how old
horse racing is.
You went over in the beginning.
So I mean it was a thing tokind of keep the shit going.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
Exactly so, and the Kentucky Derby became the
absolute highlight of the racingcalendar.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
Like people are tuning in Yep as the Derby was
finally hitting its stride.
There were other big springraces.
Yes, the Belmont, stmont stakes, which is where new york
correct and the preakness whichis where baltimore- correct.
They were also doing reallywell good job on those extra
questions however.
(49:59):
Um, that's not the order theygo in, but okay you're right, I
actually didn't know thatpreakness and then belmont is
last yep.
So in 1935, a horse named omaha, he did something incredible do
you think that was peytonmanning's favorite horse?
Speaker 2 (50:15):
he used to say omaha a lot when he was gonna hike the
ball why I?
Just was his thing.
Huh, I'll have to play you aclip of him I didn't know that.
Yeah, he just got omaha, gopeyton manning, love that guy.
He's pretty funny.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Did you ever see him on Saturday Night Live?
If not, you should Okay.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Because it was fucking hilarious.
No, but I grew up near Omaha.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
I know Nebraska.
Are you trying to get whatlittle might be in there?
Oh, I bet my ice melted alittle bit.
That's why I okay omaha, omaha,a horse, you sounded like pain
(50:56):
manning right there.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
Finally won all three races triple crown, and that's
when writer charlie hatton cameup with the title triple crown.
Basically it's the ultimatetest for any three-year-old
racehorse.
So even went, oh, after theylike, they declared like the
triple crown was now a thing.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Yeah, they retroactively went back to other
horses.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
That's nice that they did, yep yep, um, so there were
two other horses that had wonall three before.
Okay.
In 1935, Sir Barton.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Sir Barton.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
And Gallant Fox, and they were retroactively called
the Triple Crown winners, sothat's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
That is cool.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Then in 1937, War Admiral won it Sure did.
And he was the fourth officialTriple Crown winner, yep.
And then the Derby wasn't justa race by itself.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Yeah, it was a group.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Yeah, it was a group, yeah it became a kickoff for
the whole big spring celebrationWeeks long that everyone in the
country cared about, and allthose years of political
headaches and money problemswere gone.
Their Derby was about amazinghorses and the races that they
were in, right, okay, so the funpart.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Yay.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
Tradition, tradition, tradition.
Races that they were in right,okay, so the fun part yay
tradition, tradition why?
Speaker 2 (52:13):
why did we get spanish all of a sudden?
Speaker 1 (52:16):
it's russian.
Thank you, that was russian,that was the russian from
fiddler on the roof.
That's the most spanish russianI've ever heard that's from
fiddler on the roof, tevye orwhatever.
I no idea, it's been a longtime Tradition.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Okay, Okay, moving on .
Anyways, I would like to sotradition.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Hats and fashion.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Hats and fashion.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
So hats and fashion were basically taken directly
from Meriwether Clark's visionfrom Europe of the prestige of
the race Right.
So what I'm wearing today, yes,what is it called?
Do you know what these formalheadpieces are called that are
worn with a clip which mine is aclip or like a band or a
(52:58):
headband as an alternative for afancy hat?
Speaker 2 (53:02):
I don't know the name .
Speaker 1 (53:03):
It's called a fascinator.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
Yes, that's okay.
Yes, I did know that this is myfascinator.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
Yes, that's okay.
Yes, I did know that this is myfascinator.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
I didn't know.
That's actually what that wascalled.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
I have heard of fascinator before.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
Yep, and then there are fascinators that have a
little bit more of like a cap toit.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
Oh, yeah, and those are called hattinators.
Oh, well, yes, so fancy.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
I know.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
That is fascinating.
You will see the British royalfamily wearing a lot of Wearing
the hat-nators, the hat-nators,the fascinators and the fancy
hats.
I think Princess Kate wears alot of those, right, yep.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
So at one point between the 1980s through now,
the fashion kind of took achaotic turn.
We're talking pinatas as hats.
What Like a hat with a?
Speaker 2 (53:49):
I get, I get a horse pinata it was more of a
rhetorical like what?
Speaker 1 (53:54):
bird cages with live parakeets and mint julep hat
that dispenses actual mintjuleps.
Now that's practical.
Yes, it was super practical, Idon't know.
Like a pinata with candy in, itwould be great.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
I mean, that's what you would wear, but you wouldn't
go out, you'd just stay homewith it.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
No, I would stay home .
Speaker 2 (54:17):
I'm going to beat the shit out of this pinata and eat
my candy.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
But more recently it's more of a cross between a
royal wedding and, like MardiGras, with feathers.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
Right.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Okay, so now we have the mint julep.
Speaker 2 (54:28):
We do Well, like marty girl with feathers, right,
okay, so now we have the mintjulep.
We do well, we did.
Hey, look at, you can see more,since ice is melting.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Hey, kentucky derby, 2025, history buffoons yes, so
it was originally used formedicinal purposes in the south
for stomach aches and hangovers.
I'm not sure how, because thiscould make a hangover I just
just used it for medicinalpurposes.
Did you?
Yeah, what was your ailment?
It's weak, had to work.
(54:52):
Not sure how it could be usedmedicinally, but in 1938 it
became the signature drink atthe Derby Each year over a
two-day period, because there'slike a smaller race there's a
lot of races.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
Yeah, kentucky Oaks.
Yeah, yeah, there's.
Those are usually on Friday,and then there's races leading
up to the.
Derby all day on Saturdaythrough.
They have a lot of grass.
You know field races and umdare I say downs.
See what you did there.
Thanks yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
So pounds, see what you did there.
Thanks, yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:32):
So over a two-day period it's approximated that
they go through about 10 000bottles of kentucky derby or
kentucky bourbon kentucky derbyI think you've had a little too
much kentucky derby am I right10 000 bottles of kentucky
bourbon they also go through alot of lemonade too 2,250 pounds
of freshly harvested mint, andwe know how light mint is, yeah
(55:53):
that's a lot of fucking mint,holy shit.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
The beverage is served in an ice-frosted silver
julep cup, but most people sipit from souvenir glasses that
are revised each yearessentially.
Then we have Garland of Roses.
Yes, so a socialite named EBarry Wall.
Speaker 2 (56:15):
Okay, I don't understand the pause.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
I want you to ask me what E stands for, because I
actually looked it up thinkingyou were going to ask me what E
stands for.
Go ahead, ask me.
Ask me what does E stand for inE Barry Hall what does the e
stand for, kate?
Evander that was the weakestbuild-up ever, jesus I was like
(56:42):
he's gonna ask me what the estands for.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
I better look, and then the funny thing is, I
wasn't gonna do that evander.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
Okay.
So he, a socialite, passed outroses like post-derby party, to
like a bunch of women in 1883.
Right, and then in 1896, winnerBen Brush was draped with roses
and the crowd loved it.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
So this is pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
So then, the rose became the official flower of
the derby in 1904.
Yes, Okay.
And then in 1925, sports writerBill Corum coined the phrase
run for the roses.
Now it's a 40-pound garland.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
Yeah, that they drape over the back of the horse.
Speaker 1 (57:23):
Yeah, it smells like success and probably mild
allergies.
How many roses are stitchedinto the garland?
This is, I think, your lastquestion how many roses are
stitched onto the garland?
Speaker 2 (57:37):
I'm gonna go with ten thousand five, five, four, five
hundred fifty four right how'dyou know that?
Because you really randomly putyour hand up, which will be on
video.
There it is 554.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
The number is based on the length of the garland
which is usually about 122inches long from chest to flank.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (58:06):
So there's also a specific lattice pattern that
they're all arranged into andjust 554 just worked perfectly.
Speaker 2 (58:14):
Okay, fair enough.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
That's really the only reason for the number.
Speaker 2 (58:18):
Sure.
No, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (58:19):
But of course we also can't forget the iconic
grandstand.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
Nope, that's been around for a while.
The.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
Twin Spires, Yep.
It was built by 24-year-oldJoseph Dominique Valdez in 1895.
Jesus 24.
And it very quickly became asymbol of the Kentucky Derby and
Churchill Downs itself, yeah, Imean on a lot of their.
Speaker 2 (58:45):
I guess even we'll call it advertising they always
have the twin spires up thereand everything and it's very
noticeable and you have to havea lot of money today to sit on
that grandstand.
Speaker 1 (58:55):
Most people are just in the the infield yeah because
that's where all the thebuffoons sit the mid-tier below
mid mid-tier buffoons yeah well,there are a bunch of other
traditions, like there's akentucky song and and uh that
kind of kentucky home yeah um,but those were kind of the main
ones.
But, um, yeah, that is the uh,the two fastest minutes in
(59:22):
sports it's not called the twofast, the fastest two minutes in
sports the fastest two minutesin sports and the slowest
hangover in history.
The kentucky derby, what thefuck the slowest hangover.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
Do you already?
Have one, I mean no okay sothat's the history of the
kentucky derby I'm surprised youhaven't asked me who my
favorite horse is I know whatyour favorite horse has his
favorite horse is secretariat.
Speaker 1 (59:56):
Yes, and I think the most recent winner of the triple
crown was american pharaoh thatsounds right.
Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
That was a couple years back that was a few years
back.
I have the.
I have a couple bottles ofmaker's mark, because that's
kentucky bourbon.
Um, they do these specialbottles for old winners and
stuff.
Um, I have three of them.
I have justify american,pharaoh and seattle slew and
unopened, all unopened, which iskind of sad, but I'm just
(01:00:28):
kidding.
Um, they're pretty cool, I likethem, but I think, american or
no, is that the last one?
Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
I guess I'm drawing a blank.
Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
I want to say American Pharaoh is the last one
.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
It happened a couple years back but Secretariat has
always been my favorite horse,and it's not just because he was
the most one of the mostpopular, he was a fucking beast
we're gonna watch Secretariatfrom Disney yeah, with Diane
Lane honestly, I can't tell youenough how much I love this
(01:01:02):
movie.
You have said that I think I'veseen part of it once.
I don't think I've everactually seen the full movie.
Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Diane Lane is great and John Malkovich is in it oh
is he Mm-hmm.
And Lafayette from True Bloodis in it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
He passed away.
He did pass away.
That was really sad.
I like that guy.
Yeah, one of my favorites.
It has nothing to do with thethree horse races that were well
, kentucky Derby we're talkingabout, but involved the Triple
Crown, but one of my favoritehorses was Seabiscuit as well.
That movie.
I involved the triple crown,but one of my favorite horses
was sea biscuit as well.
That movie.
I really enjoy that movie withtoby mcguire and, uh what jeff
(01:01:42):
bridges and all that.
But, um, I don't think I'veever actually fully seen
secretariat.
If I do, I don't recall, butthat came out like at least 10
plus years ago now.
Right, oh yeah it's been out fora minute.
Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
But For sure, anyways , he had like an enlarged heart.
I guess when they Secretariatdid yeah.
I think when they, after hepassed away and they studied him
kind of thing, because he wasjust, he just destroyed
everybody at the Belmont.
Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
What's the animal version of an autopsy?
Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
I'm not sure.
Yeah, I think there's like aseparate name for it, so I'm
assuming that's what they didfor him, I would imagine, but uh
, he was a fucking beast autopsysure, I see what you did there.
I don't know if I like what youdid there, but I see what you
did there anyways, do you?
I I'm drawing a blank which,unfortunately, so obviously, the
(01:02:37):
kentucky derby is the run forthe roses um each.
Are you looking it up?
What are you looking up?
The horse?
So each, each race does have aspecific flower, and I want to
say necropsy necropsy okay Ihave heard that before.
Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
Yeah, I have too.
Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
I would not have pulled that anyways.
Um, each of the three races,though, does have their a
specific drink like, and eachone has a specific flower that
is associated with them.
I don't know what those are offthe top of my head yeah I love
the kentucky derby.
That's the one I always watch.
Typically I try and watch thepreakness.
(01:03:18):
If, no, if the same horsedoesn't win both, I usually
forget to watch I like to watchthe belmont and it's the longest
of the three races.
Um, that's why it's soimpressive what secretary did at
it, because he just literallydestroyed everyone else in that
race.
He beat them by like 10furlongs or whatever it was, but
(01:03:39):
I don't remember the drink orthe flower.
I think one's got like ablack-eyed Susan or something, I
don't fucking remember.
Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
Oh, that could be.
Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
I don't recall which race, each flower for each race,
but it's kind of cool that theydid that for a tradition type
standard.
Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
wait while we have kate type it in black height
susan that's it, yes and blackheight susan cocktail right that
is for the preakness okay andthen for the Preakness.
Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
Okay, and then for the Belmont yes, this is great
because you're just like peckingat it.
Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
No, don't allow.
Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Don't allow.
Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Hello, can you not find it?
Or did you fuck it?
Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
up, oh jesus, it doesn't even say it's, it's,
it's quite all right.
Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Well, I mean, now I feel like we have to finish this
.
So no, it's not all right.
Figured the fuck out whitecarnation really that sounds so
boring I didn't think that wasright, but okay, I guess I
didn't know, and the belmontbreeze that's what it is.
Yes, so I, I like the, the mintjulep, I like bourbon, so it's
(01:05:09):
white carnation interesting Ilike the roses better, Plus
red's my favorite color, so Didyou like my fascinator?
Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
Is it fascinating?
Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
I was fascinated by your fascinator.
I was even more fascinated howyou had trouble getting it on
with your head With myheadphones.
So where'd you go?
Oh, there you are, hey.
Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Yeah, it doesn't.
It's probably not like the bestpairing.
Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
But whatever it worked.
Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
So how'd you like your mint julep?
Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
It was delicious.
Once we're done here, I'm goingto go make another one.
Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
Yes, how do you feel about our first video?
Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
I'm undetermined.
Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
Same.
I haven't been able to washmyself, so that's probably a
saving grace.
Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
For the better.
We did video this.
That doesn't mean it will seethe light of day.
When I go through the editingprocess I will determine if this
gets released ever okay, so Ihad sovereignty and you had.
Burnham, burnham Square.
Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
Burnham Square Burnham.
Burnham Square, burnham.
Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Square.
Yes, stay tuned, folks, staytuned.
Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
Also.
Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
We're going to do a horse race on camera.
Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
It's going to be a short.
Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
We'll do a short.
Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
So find that on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Yeah, so, oh dear.
This is a bit ago my buddyPatrick and this is before he
moved out to the maryland areaum had a kentucky derby viewing
at his house and invited me overbecause he knows I like horse
racing too.
He and I always rather enjoyedit.
And uh, he bought this game andI'm like that's pretty fucking
(01:06:52):
cool.
So I bought it like the nextday kind of thing.
I have yet to use it.
So the only time I ever openedit was to put a battery in it,
so to make sure we have so itcould work.
Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
Can I name one of the horses?
Sovereignty.
Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
I mean, why don't we?
I'll name one as well, okay,burnham Square.
Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
That's fine.
As long as the winner isSovereignty, what?
As long as the winner issovereignty, what?
Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
What Anyways?
So we'll do a short on that ofour horse race and we'll try and
figure that out.
This will be interesting.
We are new to this videoportion of the podcast.
I don't know if this will work.
This is our first go.
I might even edit all this outif it doesn't work, because then
(01:07:40):
I can just put it on our normalpodcasting platforms.
Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
But anyways, I hope this works well.
Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Yeah calm the fuck down, I suppose.
Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
All right, buffoons, that's it for today's episode
buckle up, because we've gotanother historical adventure
waiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
explore.
Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
Hit us up on social media.
We're History Buffoons Podcaston YouTube X, instagram and
Facebook.
You can also email us athistorybuffoonspodcast at
gmailcom.
We are Bradley and Kate.
Music by Corey Akers.
Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn
those notifications on to stayin the loop.
Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to
rate and review us.
Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Remember the buffoonery never stops.
Love it, love it, Love it.
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