January 30, 2025 • 30 mins
Prepare yourself for one of the most surreal and outrageous moments in church history with our latest episode on the Cadaver Synod. Ever wondered how far someone would go for power? Join Kate and Bradley as we promise to unravel the spectacle where the corpse of Pope Formosus was exhumed and put on trial, showcasing the chaotic and comedic lengths of ecclesiastical politics in 9th and 10th century Italy. With the backdrop of a rapidly changing papal lineup and power-hungry Roman factions, we explore how Pope Nicholas I's reforms set the stage for this bizarre event. Follow Formosus's journey from bishop of Porto, Santa Rufina, to a posthumous defendant in a courtroom unlike any other.
Brace yourself for a tale featuring political intrigue, shifting alliances, and the peculiar twist of a deacon speaking for a dead pope. As we navigate the tangled relationships between the papacy, the Spoleto dynasty, Lambert, and Arnulf of Carinthia, we shed light on the motivations behind the Cadaver Synod. Stephen VI's macabre trial backfired spectacularly, sparking public outrage and leading to his demise. Hear how successive popes worked to restore Formosus's reputation and reflect on the absurdity of medieval power struggles with a blend of humor and awe. Tune in for a captivating exploration of this jaw-dropping chapter in church history..
Pope Formosus’ Trial in the Cadaver Synod by Luciano Anastasi
https://historymedieval.com/pope-formosus-trial-in-the-cadaver-synod/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
oh, hey, there oh hey , there how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I am well.
How are you'm?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
good.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
What are we doing today?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
on the Origin of.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Weird.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Okay, this one's really weird.
Okay, I hope so.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I'm Kate by the way, hello, kate, I am Bradley.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
We are the History Buffoons Welcome.
And this is the Origin of Weird.
This is like our I don't know27th go-around on episodes 28th,
something like that, and we'restill we're still fucking it up,
but that's okay fucking it upsince 2024.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
What up, what up yeah , I mean, we've literally been
fucking it up for only what?
Four months since the releaseof our first episode.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
That's alright, though okay, so this one is
about cadaver synod.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Cadaver synod.
Yes, okay, I know what cadaversare.
What's synod?
You will find out.
I cannot wait.
That was part of my research.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
That's a phrase you don't say too, often Wow so this
event actually happened to apope.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Oh, pope Formos formosis, does he shit in the
woods?
He is italian, well then,probably does so what's his name
again?
Sorry, formosis, pope formosis,that was his pope name.
Yep, that's a unique one,because usually you get john and
, well, all the other ones john,john john and john the second
(01:51):
and john the third and john thejohns lots of johns anyways.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Um, okay, so moses the event that we're going to
talk about, um, occurred duringa big political upheaval in
Italy.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Okay.
And this was around mid-9th andthe mid-10th century, so like
for a hundred years, what, what,what, what you said the mid-9th
century and the mid-10thcentury.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yes, I'm sorry.
For a hundred years I was likewhat are you talking about?
Yes, wow.
Well done.
Yes, I'm sorry.
For a hundred years I was likewhat are you talking about?
Yes, wow.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Well done on that one , jesus.
Wow, sorry, I'm trying torecover from that.
Oh, my word.
Okay, go go ahead, keepdrinking.
I can't Go get a Modelo.
What are we doing?
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Oh Jesus, go get a Modelo.
What are we doing?
Oh Jesus, go get a Modelo, holdit please, hold it please, and
we're back.
Hello, modelo, modelo.
Okay, between the 9th centuryand the 10th century, things
were changing.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So for 100 years.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Uh-huh, especially with popes.
What was changing Specifically?
Like their hat or design ofthat and the cape between 872
and 965.
Okay, there were two dozendifferent popes that's a lot of
fucking.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Do you know how many two dozen is?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
and between 896 and 904.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So eight years.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
They had a revolving door of popes, almost one every
year.
Seriously, yes, what the fuck.
There was a lot of confusiongoing on Pope-ademic.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Wow, wow, I will, I will.
I am not.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
I am not disappointed in your response to me, saying
that that was exactly what I wasgoing for so a lot of powerful
roman groups were actuallyconstantly fighting for control,
and that's what caused all thischaos.
Okay, so roman groups wereactually constantly fighting for
control and that's what causedall this chaos.
Okay, so roman groups were likeum influential families and and
nobles and even militarycommanders were like trying to
(04:12):
gain control over italy um,unfortunately there wasn't a lot
of records at the time, what?
so it's kind of hard to get likea full picture of what's
actually happening, but I'mgonna give you the the
breadcrumbs to put it alltogether.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Oh sweet, I look forward to the breadcrumbs.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So Formosus' church career took off in 864.
864, okay, he became bishop ofPorto, santa Rufina.
Oh yeah, it's a diocese in Rome.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Sure is.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Okay, so do you know it.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
No.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Have you Okay, sure is.
Okay, so do you know it?
No, have you Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
During Pope Nicholas's the first time.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So was he also.
It was a pope.
Oh, okay, the way you worded it.
I'm like, did he have a secondtime too?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
No, he's, never mind.
He's Pope Nicholas the firstTime.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
That's what threw me off.
Sorry, my bad.
Oh, this is.
This is a very giggly origin,weird and we're not even drunk,
okay, no you would think we were, but we're not, we're not okay,
um sorry.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So pope nicholas the first was a really strong leader
who wanted to make the Popeeven more powerful.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Well, why wouldn't he ?
Because he's going to rule allof the world.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So he basically said the Pope was the boss of all
other bishops and he tried tolimit the power of the kings in
church matters.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Which didn't?
They pretty much, he prettymuch.
Well, I don't know if he did,but that was pretty much a thing
because, like the Pope, he saida lot of shit and if you didn't
like it he didn't fucking care.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
He was, yeah, he was law.
I mean, that's again like thewhole King Henry thing.
I always go back to him.
He had to literally leave thechurch because the Pope's like
fuck you man.
Yeah, because the Pope's likefuck you man.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, so Pope Nicholas, I also wanted to clean
up the church and he wasagainst things like selling
church jobs.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Like bringing in the public to do church jobs.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Oh, so he wanted their own employees, kind of
thing.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, and then he was also against priests getting
married.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Why?
Because he wanted them.
Never mind, I won't even gothere.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
So Nicholas was also a diplomat.
He dealt with powerful rulerslike the emperor of the
Byzantine Empire Well done andthe king of the Franks.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
The Franks, the Franks.
I'll be honest, I did notexpect you to get byzantine.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I did not expect to get that on the first go if you
listen to our last episode, notmaybe, maybe not our last
episode, but an earlier episodeon um, the haymarket affair I
said marzell, he say, like I wasfrench yeah, and she.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
There's a couple other words.
She also said that were notcoherent at all.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
We're not going to talk about that.
Okay, nicholas also had bigproblems.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, because he had more money.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
He had a problem with the Sorry.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Your laugh was just great, my bad.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
He had a problem with the leader of the Eastern
Church in Constantinople.
Oh yeah, do you know who inConstantinople?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, do you know who ?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Constantinople is now Istanbul.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Did you know who that's named after?
Speaker 1 (07:31):
constantine yeah, girl, yeah, well done so they
disagreed about who was actuallyin charge the eastern church in
constantinople or the pope sowait, what was the eastern
church?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
it was in constantinople I get where it
was.
I asked what it was they werefighting over power.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Essentially, it's a different.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
it's not roman catholic or catholic or or
whatever, it's just a differentchurch.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
It's the Eastern versus Western churches.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Was this not part of your research?
It?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
was not part of it.
So Formosus was actually areally capable and respected guy
, and so they put him in chargeof the Porto Santa Rufina
diocese right.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Two years later, in 866.
A year, I remember well he wassent to bulgaria as a special
representative of the pope.
He was he was pretty good atthe job and he was a great
diplomat, strong religiousleader, and boris the first
which was the ruler of bulgaria,okay was so impressed with
(08:32):
formosis that he actually askedthe pope to make Formosus the
Archbishop of Bulgaria.
Well, shit yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Quite the impression he made.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
They're going through the ranks too.
Like hey, the Pope still haspower, you know.
Right, right, it's a huge dealand Formosus was highly regarded
.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
But Pope Nicholas said no, what a dick.
No, the Pope appointed.
And said no, what a dick.
No, the pope appointed.
Um nope the pope.
The pope pointed to an oldchurch rule called the 15th
canon of the second council ofnicaea council of nicaea.
(09:10):
Yes, it basically said a bishopcouldn't run more than one
church.
Oh, and he was already incharge of the porto santa rufina
diocese.
Okay, yep yep.
So the idea was to keep thingsfair and even and spread the
power around and not keep.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Let one bishop get too powerful yeah, because he
didn't want the, the pope,didn't want this bishop to rise
up against him.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Basically, exactly so .
He stuck to the rules and hekept the church quote unquote
balanced, balanced.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Now now, oh remember, I do revolving door popes okay
yep, the popademic, that'samazing, amazing.
Sorry didn't mean to derailthat, I guess okay.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Okay, the pope ademic go so during pope john, the
eighth time, and it's okay.
So it's written down as johnpope v, I, I, I, and in
parentheses I put eight.
Did you have to?
Really no, I know what it is,but to make it flow a little
better, I put eight next to itand this is flowing
(10:19):
fantastically.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
All right, pope.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
John Paul VIII.
He was in charge in 872 to 882.
Okay, so during his timeFormosus was in trouble.
Why?
Because the Pope accusedFormosus of conspiring to usurp
the papacy.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
See, like I said, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So essentially he believed Formosus was plotting
to take his place as Pope and heaccused Formosus of influencing
the Bulgarians against otherbishops.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
So basically, this pope was just fucking paranoid.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, he was he was, and it was suggested that
Formosus had gained significantinfluence in Bulgaria and was
potentially undermining theauthority of the pope and the
church, and he wasexcommunicated.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, just because this pope wanted to live the
life he was living, because I'msure he was taken very well,
very well taken care of, Ishould say.
And he was living because I'msure he was taken very well,
very well taken care of, Ishould say and he was there for
10 years yeah, so he's like Idon't want to give this up, man.
Yeah, fuck you.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Formosa excommunicated so there are
different stories about whathappened next, right, some say
formosis went to a council introyes, which is a town in
France.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Okay, very far away from Rome.
How is that spelled?
T-r-o-y-e-s?
Speaker 1 (11:37):
T-R-O-Y-E-S.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Oh, it is Y Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yes, I mean, I could say Troyes, but I thought Troyes
sounded better.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I don't know.
I was just curious, to behonest.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
So he supposedly promised to never be a priest
again.
Okay, to never be a priestagain, okay.
But we're not sure if that wasactually true.
We don't know right after popejohn paul the eighth died, in
1882, so he could have ruledmore, but he just died.
What year?
882?
Did I say 18?
(12:08):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
like how do we fast forward a thousand years?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
god damn it he died in 882 okay, and formosus was
able to return then to his jobas bishop, and because basically
just that pope was just fuckingfreaking out like man, this
guy's coming for my job.
Yeah, he's like wow what a dick, yeah so um in 891, something
interesting happened.
(12:31):
What was that?
Formosus was elected pope youdon't say I did.
Actually, at the very beginningwere you not there.
I was there, I know.
Okay, so huge turnaroundconsidering he'd just been
exiled.
Well, yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
So his election really does show like he was
respected in the church well,people liked him clearly,
because for one douche pope toexcommunicate or exile and
whatever and then he comes backwithin a what?
Two years?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
yeah um, so his problems didn't just disappear
because he came back and he'spope now, right?
Um, there were stillaccusations from the past pope
john the eighth and hisexcommunication, and it kind of
came back to haunt him, I'm sure.
Yeah, that shit don't disappear.
That's why it's called history.
It's always around.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
As long as someone wrote it down at one point,
you're fucked.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Formosus was Pope for five years.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So during this time, he formed an alliance with
Lambert of Spoleto, which aitalian nobleman, and he crowned
him as king of italy.
Oh wow, but he later saw him asa threat oh geez and shifted
his allegiance to arnulf ofcarinthia, who is a frankish
king.
Okay, inviting him to invadeitaly, oh jesus, and challenge
lambert's power it's likeinviting someone to a party.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I'd like to invite you to invade this.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yes, what the fuck yeah, there's somebody here I
don't like, so I'm going toinvite you to come to my house
so you can get rid of them.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, so if you could bring an army, yeah.
Maybe some cakes, cake, cake Ilike cake.
Cake is good.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Lemon.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I like lemon cake.
Do you know what my favoritecake is?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Lemon cake.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
No, my mom makes it for me every year on my birthday
.
Carrot cake, oh, carrot cake,so good, okay, cream cheese
frosting.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Stop, stop.
I need my Skittle gummies.
I just hit my microphone.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Oh, don't do that, all right, anyways, okay gummies
I just hit my microphone.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Oh, don't do that, all right anyways.
Okay, so the shift inallegiance angered lambert and
led to increased tensionsbetween the papacy and the
spoleto dynasty.
Sure, and then formosus died in896.
Do you know what he died of?
Potentially a stroke, oh dearyes so thus came cadaver synod
(14:57):
okay I've got my hands open asif I'm like jazz hands, I'm
inviting you, okay?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
it's really strange okay, it sounds like it's
strange so a synod isessentially a council or
assembly.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Um okay, of a christian denomination, gotcha
okay.
So held by pope stephen thesixth I didn't write it in
parentheses pope stephen six in897, seven months after formosis
died, this synod dug up oldaccusations against him.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Against Formosa.
Yes, why.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
It's fucking dead.
He was accused of lying underoath.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Oh Jesus.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Christ and illegally serving as bishop.
How, how?
These charges probably stemfrom the fact that the council
from the council of Troyes inFrance?
Yeah, because it was said thathe promised under oath never to
be a priest again, but he cameback to be a bishop and then he
(16:01):
became the Pope.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Oh, so that means he would have broke his promise.
Is the Pope a priest?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yes, Is that technically right?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yes, I guess I'd never really put that together
for some reason.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yes, so it would mean he broke his promise by
becoming a bishop and then thepope, and that's why he was
accused of lying, illegallyholding office essentially okay,
all right, continue so thecadaver synod also wasn't just
about the religious issues.
Um, the pope's support meant alot back then and it basically
(16:33):
gave a ruler legitimacy andpower and he had given that
power at the time to lambertyeah but formosus got worried
about lambert growing power andswitched sides.
And arnulf of carinthia, whoinvaded italy, became the
emperor okay, okay so thesepolitical moves had serious
(16:54):
consequences.
Lambert and his mother becamereally powerful in Rome, and
historians used to think thatFormosus was strongly
pro-Carolinian.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Pro-Carolinian and only crowned Lambert because he
was forced to.
So the Carolinians are powerful.
Frankish dynasty rose uh,rising from the prominence of
the 8th century.
Okay, charlemagne.
If you've ever heard ofcharlemagne, he was probably
like the most famous of thecarolinian rulers can you say
(17:28):
that word again, charlemagne?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
no, the other one you just said carolinian carol
carol carol lingian.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
How is it spelled, carol?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
linian ing okay ian carol, because I know
charlemagne, I, I might be justmixing up things in my brain,
but okay, sorry, continue okayso.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Um so, charlemagne united the Western Europe under
his rule and was crowned emperorby the Pope.
Okay, so he was a Carolinian.
So they were suggesting thatFormosus was pro-Carolinian.
Okay, okay, so he was a littlebit more flexible in his
(18:11):
political dealings and heactually had good relations with
Lambert for a while, up untilwhat he did until he didn't
until the thing until the thing.
So things changed whenlambert's cousin guy the fourth,
of boleto guy the fourth, hegot too powerful guy the fourth
guy the fourth, um, he wasaggressive, he liked conquering
(18:35):
people and things and drivingout people and that worried
Formosus.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Okay, so this likely made him seek help from Arnolf.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
There's a lot of names.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And this suggested that his strategy was based on
that changing politicalsituation.
So, they were just trying toessentially support, with
potential evidence why Formosuswere making these decisions with
Lambert and Arnolf.
So by reexamining Formosus'motives, we finally understand a
(19:13):
little bit of the shiftingalliances that were happening
sure so the new perspectivehelps us see that the cadaver
synod wasn't just religious.
It was actually political andreligious conflicts and tensions
.
Okay, so pope stephen the sixthand I did put that in- wow pope
stephen's the sixth actionsagainst the dead Pope.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Is it Stephen or?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Stephan.
It's spelled Stephan.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
That's Stephen.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yes, I know.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
But you said Stephan and then you said Stephen.
Sorry, I meant Stephen, okay.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Pope Stephen VI.
His actions against the deadPope at the Catavra Synod were
completely unheard of in thehistory of the Catholic Church.
Okay, so Imagine this A trial.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Paint me a picture.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
We're in Italy.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
That was well done.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
During the trial, they appointed a deacon to speak
for Formosus because he's dead.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
That's horseshit.
You can't have someone elsespeak for him, even though I
understand he's dead.
But that's not it.
Oh God, have someone else speakfor him even though I
understand he's dead, but that'snot it, oh God.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Okay, they dug him up .
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I've heard of this.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
They dug up Pope Formosus.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
And they put him on a chair.
Basically right, they proppedhim up on a throne, like some
sort of creepy puppet.
Yes, I've heard of this Nowthat you bring this up.
I didn't know any of thedetails, though, but that's
fucking fantastic.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
That is just so weird .
This deacon was like talkingfor this dead pope did he get
behind him and go like?
I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Move his arms move his head and talk behind him.
Did he know his voice like, heyman, yeah, is she on pope for
most years?
It's like what the fuck I?
Oh, that's so great, because Iactually I don't remember where
I saw this read.
It was a brief snippet orsomething, but again, I didn't
know any details.
(21:14):
So this is fucking fantastic.
Well, well done good.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So one of the main charges was that dead Pope
Formosus sitting on the throne.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
He broke church law by leading more than one church.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Oh Jesus.
So, Doesn't the Pope lead allchurches?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Well, he was also.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I get that yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I understand where you're coming from.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
For sure, for sure, okay, yeah, the second charge
was of perjury because theythought he lied about.
Yes, he broke his promise um,if he actually did that, then
became pope as, like a layman,like I'm just gonna have the
title right and then finallypope.
That's perjury.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Okay, wow, that is staying in.
That one was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
The last charge was that he presented himself as
bishop even though he wasn't so.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
then that was a huge deal, so.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Right.
People believe that Formosusshouldn't be Pope, couldn't have
been Pope because he had brokenhis promise and was not a
priest.
Right, he wasn't, he wasn't, hejust was a dude.
He essentially like demotedhimself Right and then pretended
like he wasn't.
Huh, so Okay.
(22:34):
It would have been a majorinsult to the church, and the
trial was like a crazy mix ofthe religion and the politics
and in the end, formosis wasfound guilty even though he was
already dead so did they hangthe corpse?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I mean?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
they did desecrate the body.
Yeah, was he drawn and quoted.
He was stripped of his Popeclothes that he was buried in.
Well, yeah, because they'realways buried in their final
garb or whatever they cut offhis fingers because he used
those to bless people oh forfuck's sake.
And declared everything he didas Pope was completely invalid.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Do you think that someone made like a Formosa and
finger necklace Ew?
Speaker 1 (23:23):
What the hell?
Maybe you need to be on theorigin of weird.
You're weird, I'm pretty weird.
They essentially wanted toerase him from.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
They wanted to erase Formosa and everything that he
did.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
To make things worse, he didn't even get a proper
burial.
They buried him in a commongrave, just like anybody else.
Did they at least mark it?
Well, they buried him in acommon grave, just like anybody
else do they at least mark it?
Well, they dug him up againagain after they reburied him
they tied weights to his bodyand threw his body into the
tiber river.
What the fuck, wasn't thatbrutal?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
that is and he was so well respected well yeah, and
then all these fuckers thatthought they were gunning for
his job, formosa was like wegotta this fucker's dead, but we
gotta make him an example outof this guy.
Yeah, so they tied weights tohis body and threw him in the
river.
Yep, what the fuck so thecadaver synod was bizarre, yeah,
(24:22):
disturbing, and people werehorrified rightly they loved him
that, and not only that, theydug the guy up and put him on a
chair twice.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
They dug him up twice .
No one could believe thatstephen the six had done this,
and the public outrage led tohis downfall he was removed from
power, thrown in prison andevent.
Eventually he was strangled todeath oh good, yeah, fuck that
guy so the pope who came afterstephen vi tried to fix the
damage.
(24:52):
This was pope theodore ii.
Okay, and he had held a councilto officially overturn
everything that happened at thecadaver synod okay so big step
towards restoring formosa'sreputation right right and then
we have there's so many popes somany popes, popeademic, stop it
pope john the ninth umcondemned the synod and
(25:15):
supported theater.
The second's decision gotchaokay, so both pope theater,
second, and and Pope John IXhelped restore Formosa's honor.
Okay, so they found his body inthe river Formosa's yeah, which
had been so horribly treated.
Well, right, and they pulledhim out and they gave him a
proper burial at St Peter'sBasilica as a pope.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Well, I mean he was a pope.
Well, I mean he was a pope.
I get, like you got some dumbfucking bitches that are like
this guy's gunning for my job,so I gotta fuck up his
reputation and stuff.
And the only reason why he wasexiled or excommunicated or
whatever was because this popethought he was coming for him
(25:57):
yeah potential threat.
So then the only reason why theyeven got him on anything huge
air quotes is because I won't bea priest anymore.
But that's just because thisdick of a pope fucking said oh
man, this guy's gonna take myjob and I like this job yeah
what a fucking dick.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, so unfortunately, so fortunately,
pope sergius the third.
What's his name?
Sergius s-e-r-g-i-u-s that's aunique one, I don't know but
he's three, he's three, he's thethird oh my god, that was great
(26:35):
he was actually one of thejudges at the cadaver synod and
he became pope and brought backall the or whole charges against
formosis what is wrong withthese people?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
just fucking let it go naturally it opened new
wounds, old wounds showed howdeeply the church was divided
like I mean, believe what youwant about religion, and to each
your own who believe aboutreligion.
But these stupid fucks werejust about the fucking position
(27:10):
yeah, they did not actually careabout the church.
They just wanted that positionbecause of the power that it
came with.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
You know what a dick so the cadaver Senate is one of
the most infamous and shockingevents in the history of the
Catholic Church.
I've never heard about it, butit's fucking wild yeah and it
just shows you how much peoplewould go for power in the
medieval church.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Well, yeah, because again it was so respected.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
There were personal grudges and there were schemes
and religious arguments,religious arguments and
political arguments and just allruckus.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Yeah, they used Jesus and God's name and their
benefit basically is all it was,so it's just weird.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yeah, so that's the cadaver, synod.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
That's just so weird, so weird.
I've never heard of that before.
That's just so weird, so weird.
I've never heard of that before.
I'm pro Formosa.
Fuck Stephen and those otherfuckers.
I mean, what the hell?
That's just fucking dumb, yeah.
But wow, okay, I like that.
That was definitely a weird one.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Pope, formosa's and his cadaver trial.
His cadaver was on the throne.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
It's just funny because, again, I don't remember
where I heard of seeing this.
I remember seeing a picture.
I'll have to try and look forit after this.
I don't know.
Yes that's the one.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yep, that's the picture.
It's got it all set up forsocial media.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Perfect, because I don't remember how long ago it
was, I saw this.
I don't even remember what Iwas looking up.
I was looking up something,obviously, and I saw that I'm
like that's fucking wild, andall I knew was this pope was dug
up to be put on trial.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yes, I knew nothing else about what you just said,
so that's fantastic to actuallyhave some context behind that
picture do you think he was likeup in heaven, like on a cloud,
like on his belly with his handsunder his, his chin and kicking
his feet and just watching thisbullshit?
Go on and be like you know,this doesn't matter, right?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
pretty funny if you ask me oh shit, they threw my
body in the river.
What the fuck?
I mean, what the hell?
Speaker 1 (29:20):
and they dug him up twice, twice, and then they took
him out of the river.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Oh, my word.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
And finally properly buried him.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Good for him.
Yeah, wow, go Formosa, formosis.
I think Formosa needs a mimosa.
Well, I suppose.
All right, buffoons.
That's it for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Buckle up, because we've got another historical
adventure waiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
explore.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Hit us up on social media.
We're History Buffoons Podcaston YouTube X, instagram and
Facebook.
You can also email us athistorybuffoonspodcast at
gmailcom.
We are Bradley and Kate.
Music by Corey Akers.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn
those notifications on to stayin the loop.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to
rate and review us.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Remember, the buffoonery never stops.
oh, hey, there oh hey , there how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I am well.
How are you'm?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
good.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
What are we doing today?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
on the Origin of.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Weird.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Okay, this one's really weird.
Okay, I hope so.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I'm Kate by the way, hello, kate, I am Bradley.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
We are the History Buffoons Welcome.
And this is the Origin of Weird.
This is like our I don't know27th go-around on episodes 28th,
something like that, and we'restill we're still fucking it up,
but that's okay fucking it upsince 2024.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
What up, what up yeah , I mean, we've literally been
fucking it up for only what?
Four months since the releaseof our first episode.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
That's alright, though okay, so this one is
about cadaver synod.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Cadaver synod.
Yes, okay, I know what cadaversare.
What's synod?
You will find out.
I cannot wait.
That was part of my research.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
That's a phrase you don't say too, often Wow so this
event actually happened to apope.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Oh, pope Formos formosis, does he shit in the
woods?
He is italian, well then,probably does so what's his name
again?
Sorry, formosis, pope formosis,that was his pope name.
Yep, that's a unique one,because usually you get john and
, well, all the other ones john,john john and john the second
(01:51):
and john the third and john thejohns lots of johns anyways.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Um, okay, so moses the event that we're going to
talk about, um, occurred duringa big political upheaval in
Italy.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Okay.
And this was around mid-9th andthe mid-10th century, so like
for a hundred years, what, what,what, what you said the mid-9th
century and the mid-10thcentury.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yes, I'm sorry.
For a hundred years I was likewhat are you talking about?
Yes, wow.
Well done.
Yes, I'm sorry.
For a hundred years I was likewhat are you talking about?
Yes, wow.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Well done on that one , jesus.
Wow, sorry, I'm trying torecover from that.
Oh, my word.
Okay, go go ahead, keepdrinking.
I can't Go get a Modelo.
What are we doing?
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Oh Jesus, go get a Modelo.
What are we doing?
Oh Jesus, go get a Modelo, holdit please, hold it please, and
we're back.
Hello, modelo, modelo.
Okay, between the 9th centuryand the 10th century, things
were changing.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So for 100 years.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Uh-huh, especially with popes.
What was changing Specifically?
Like their hat or design ofthat and the cape between 872
and 965.
Okay, there were two dozendifferent popes that's a lot of
fucking.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Do you know how many two dozen is?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
and between 896 and 904.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So eight years.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
They had a revolving door of popes, almost one every
year.
Seriously, yes, what the fuck.
There was a lot of confusiongoing on Pope-ademic.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Wow, wow, I will, I will.
I am not.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
I am not disappointed in your response to me, saying
that that was exactly what I wasgoing for so a lot of powerful
roman groups were actuallyconstantly fighting for control,
and that's what caused all thischaos.
Okay, so roman groups wereactually constantly fighting for
control and that's what causedall this chaos.
Okay, so roman groups were likeum influential families and and
nobles and even militarycommanders were like trying to
(04:12):
gain control over italy um,unfortunately there wasn't a lot
of records at the time, what?
so it's kind of hard to get likea full picture of what's
actually happening, but I'mgonna give you the the
breadcrumbs to put it alltogether.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Oh sweet, I look forward to the breadcrumbs.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So Formosus' church career took off in 864.
864, okay, he became bishop ofPorto, santa Rufina.
Oh yeah, it's a diocese in Rome.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Sure is.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Okay, so do you know it.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
No.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Have you Okay, sure is.
Okay, so do you know it?
No, have you Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
During Pope Nicholas's the first time.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So was he also.
It was a pope.
Oh, okay, the way you worded it.
I'm like, did he have a secondtime too?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
No, he's, never mind.
He's Pope Nicholas the firstTime.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
That's what threw me off.
Sorry, my bad.
Oh, this is.
This is a very giggly origin,weird and we're not even drunk,
okay, no you would think we were, but we're not, we're not okay,
um sorry.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So pope nicholas the first was a really strong leader
who wanted to make the Popeeven more powerful.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Well, why wouldn't he ?
Because he's going to rule allof the world.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So he basically said the Pope was the boss of all
other bishops and he tried tolimit the power of the kings in
church matters.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Which didn't?
They pretty much, he prettymuch.
Well, I don't know if he did,but that was pretty much a thing
because, like the Pope, he saida lot of shit and if you didn't
like it he didn't fucking care.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
He was, yeah, he was law.
I mean, that's again like thewhole King Henry thing.
I always go back to him.
He had to literally leave thechurch because the Pope's like
fuck you man.
Yeah, because the Pope's likefuck you man.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, so Pope Nicholas, I also wanted to clean
up the church and he wasagainst things like selling
church jobs.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Like bringing in the public to do church jobs.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Oh, so he wanted their own employees, kind of
thing.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, and then he was also against priests getting
married.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Why?
Because he wanted them.
Never mind, I won't even gothere.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
So Nicholas was also a diplomat.
He dealt with powerful rulerslike the emperor of the
Byzantine Empire Well done andthe king of the Franks.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
The Franks, the Franks.
I'll be honest, I did notexpect you to get byzantine.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I did not expect to get that on the first go if you
listen to our last episode, notmaybe, maybe not our last
episode, but an earlier episodeon um, the haymarket affair I
said marzell, he say, like I wasfrench yeah, and she.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
There's a couple other words.
She also said that were notcoherent at all.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
We're not going to talk about that.
Okay, nicholas also had bigproblems.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, because he had more money.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
He had a problem with the Sorry.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Your laugh was just great, my bad.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
He had a problem with the leader of the Eastern
Church in Constantinople.
Oh yeah, do you know who inConstantinople?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, do you know who ?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Constantinople is now Istanbul.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Did you know who that's named after?
Speaker 1 (07:31):
constantine yeah, girl, yeah, well done so they
disagreed about who was actuallyin charge the eastern church in
constantinople or the pope sowait, what was the eastern
church?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
it was in constantinople I get where it
was.
I asked what it was they werefighting over power.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Essentially, it's a different.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
it's not roman catholic or catholic or or
whatever, it's just a differentchurch.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
It's the Eastern versus Western churches.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Was this not part of your research?
It?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
was not part of it.
So Formosus was actually areally capable and respected guy
, and so they put him in chargeof the Porto Santa Rufina
diocese right.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Two years later, in 866.
A year, I remember well he wassent to bulgaria as a special
representative of the pope.
He was he was pretty good atthe job and he was a great
diplomat, strong religiousleader, and boris the first
which was the ruler of bulgaria,okay was so impressed with
(08:32):
formosis that he actually askedthe pope to make Formosus the
Archbishop of Bulgaria.
Well, shit yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Quite the impression he made.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
They're going through the ranks too.
Like hey, the Pope still haspower, you know.
Right, right, it's a huge dealand Formosus was highly regarded
.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
But Pope Nicholas said no, what a dick.
No, the Pope appointed.
And said no, what a dick.
No, the pope appointed.
Um nope the pope.
The pope pointed to an oldchurch rule called the 15th
canon of the second council ofnicaea council of nicaea.
(09:10):
Yes, it basically said a bishopcouldn't run more than one
church.
Oh, and he was already incharge of the porto santa rufina
diocese.
Okay, yep yep.
So the idea was to keep thingsfair and even and spread the
power around and not keep.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Let one bishop get too powerful yeah, because he
didn't want the, the pope,didn't want this bishop to rise
up against him.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Basically, exactly so .
He stuck to the rules and hekept the church quote unquote
balanced, balanced.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Now now, oh remember, I do revolving door popes okay
yep, the popademic, that'samazing, amazing.
Sorry didn't mean to derailthat, I guess okay.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Okay, the pope ademic go so during pope john, the
eighth time, and it's okay.
So it's written down as johnpope v, I, I, I, and in
parentheses I put eight.
Did you have to?
Really no, I know what it is,but to make it flow a little
better, I put eight next to itand this is flowing
(10:19):
fantastically.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
All right, pope.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
John Paul VIII.
He was in charge in 872 to 882.
Okay, so during his timeFormosus was in trouble.
Why?
Because the Pope accusedFormosus of conspiring to usurp
the papacy.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
See, like I said, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So essentially he believed Formosus was plotting
to take his place as Pope and heaccused Formosus of influencing
the Bulgarians against otherbishops.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
So basically, this pope was just fucking paranoid.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, he was he was, and it was suggested that
Formosus had gained significantinfluence in Bulgaria and was
potentially undermining theauthority of the pope and the
church, and he wasexcommunicated.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, just because this pope wanted to live the
life he was living, because I'msure he was taken very well,
very well taken care of, Ishould say.
And he was living because I'msure he was taken very well,
very well taken care of, Ishould say and he was there for
10 years yeah, so he's like Idon't want to give this up, man.
Yeah, fuck you.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Formosa excommunicated so there are
different stories about whathappened next, right, some say
formosis went to a council introyes, which is a town in
France.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Okay, very far away from Rome.
How is that spelled?
T-r-o-y-e-s?
Speaker 1 (11:37):
T-R-O-Y-E-S.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Oh, it is Y Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yes, I mean, I could say Troyes, but I thought Troyes
sounded better.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I don't know.
I was just curious, to behonest.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
So he supposedly promised to never be a priest
again.
Okay, to never be a priestagain, okay.
But we're not sure if that wasactually true.
We don't know right after popejohn paul the eighth died, in
1882, so he could have ruledmore, but he just died.
What year?
882?
Did I say 18?
(12:08):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
like how do we fast forward a thousand years?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
god damn it he died in 882 okay, and formosus was
able to return then to his jobas bishop, and because basically
just that pope was just fuckingfreaking out like man, this
guy's coming for my job.
Yeah, he's like wow what a dick, yeah so um in 891, something
interesting happened.
(12:31):
What was that?
Formosus was elected pope youdon't say I did.
Actually, at the very beginningwere you not there.
I was there, I know.
Okay, so huge turnaroundconsidering he'd just been
exiled.
Well, yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
So his election really does show like he was
respected in the church well,people liked him clearly,
because for one douche pope toexcommunicate or exile and
whatever and then he comes backwithin a what?
Two years?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
yeah um, so his problems didn't just disappear
because he came back and he'spope now, right?
Um, there were stillaccusations from the past pope
john the eighth and hisexcommunication, and it kind of
came back to haunt him, I'm sure.
Yeah, that shit don't disappear.
That's why it's called history.
It's always around.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
As long as someone wrote it down at one point,
you're fucked.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Formosus was Pope for five years.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So during this time, he formed an alliance with
Lambert of Spoleto, which aitalian nobleman, and he crowned
him as king of italy.
Oh wow, but he later saw him asa threat oh geez and shifted
his allegiance to arnulf ofcarinthia, who is a frankish
king.
Okay, inviting him to invadeitaly, oh jesus, and challenge
lambert's power it's likeinviting someone to a party.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I'd like to invite you to invade this.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yes, what the fuck yeah, there's somebody here I
don't like, so I'm going toinvite you to come to my house
so you can get rid of them.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, so if you could bring an army, yeah.
Maybe some cakes, cake, cake Ilike cake.
Cake is good.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Lemon.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I like lemon cake.
Do you know what my favoritecake is?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Lemon cake.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
No, my mom makes it for me every year on my birthday
.
Carrot cake, oh, carrot cake,so good, okay, cream cheese
frosting.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Stop, stop.
I need my Skittle gummies.
I just hit my microphone.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Oh, don't do that, all right, anyways, okay gummies
I just hit my microphone.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Oh, don't do that, all right anyways.
Okay, so the shift inallegiance angered lambert and
led to increased tensionsbetween the papacy and the
spoleto dynasty.
Sure, and then formosus died in896.
Do you know what he died of?
Potentially a stroke, oh dearyes so thus came cadaver synod
(14:57):
okay I've got my hands open asif I'm like jazz hands, I'm
inviting you, okay?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
it's really strange okay, it sounds like it's
strange so a synod isessentially a council or
assembly.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Um okay, of a christian denomination, gotcha
okay.
So held by pope stephen thesixth I didn't write it in
parentheses pope stephen six in897, seven months after formosis
died, this synod dug up oldaccusations against him.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Against Formosa.
Yes, why.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
It's fucking dead.
He was accused of lying underoath.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Oh Jesus.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Christ and illegally serving as bishop.
How, how?
These charges probably stemfrom the fact that the council
from the council of Troyes inFrance?
Yeah, because it was said thathe promised under oath never to
be a priest again, but he cameback to be a bishop and then he
(16:01):
became the Pope.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Oh, so that means he would have broke his promise.
Is the Pope a priest?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yes, Is that technically right?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yes, I guess I'd never really put that together
for some reason.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yes, so it would mean he broke his promise by
becoming a bishop and then thepope, and that's why he was
accused of lying, illegallyholding office essentially okay,
all right, continue so thecadaver synod also wasn't just
about the religious issues.
Um, the pope's support meant alot back then and it basically
(16:33):
gave a ruler legitimacy andpower and he had given that
power at the time to lambertyeah but formosus got worried
about lambert growing power andswitched sides.
And arnulf of carinthia, whoinvaded italy, became the
emperor okay, okay so thesepolitical moves had serious
(16:54):
consequences.
Lambert and his mother becamereally powerful in Rome, and
historians used to think thatFormosus was strongly
pro-Carolinian.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Pro-Carolinian and only crowned Lambert because he
was forced to.
So the Carolinians are powerful.
Frankish dynasty rose uh,rising from the prominence of
the 8th century.
Okay, charlemagne.
If you've ever heard ofcharlemagne, he was probably
like the most famous of thecarolinian rulers can you say
(17:28):
that word again, charlemagne?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
no, the other one you just said carolinian carol
carol carol lingian.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
How is it spelled, carol?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
linian ing okay ian carol, because I know
charlemagne, I, I might be justmixing up things in my brain,
but okay, sorry, continue okayso.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Um so, charlemagne united the Western Europe under
his rule and was crowned emperorby the Pope.
Okay, so he was a Carolinian.
So they were suggesting thatFormosus was pro-Carolinian.
Okay, okay, so he was a littlebit more flexible in his
(18:11):
political dealings and heactually had good relations with
Lambert for a while, up untilwhat he did until he didn't
until the thing until the thing.
So things changed whenlambert's cousin guy the fourth,
of boleto guy the fourth, hegot too powerful guy the fourth
guy the fourth, um, he wasaggressive, he liked conquering
(18:35):
people and things and drivingout people and that worried
Formosus.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Okay, so this likely made him seek help from Arnolf.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
There's a lot of names.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And this suggested that his strategy was based on
that changing politicalsituation.
So, they were just trying toessentially support, with
potential evidence why Formosuswere making these decisions with
Lambert and Arnolf.
So by reexamining Formosus'motives, we finally understand a
(19:13):
little bit of the shiftingalliances that were happening
sure so the new perspectivehelps us see that the cadaver
synod wasn't just religious.
It was actually political andreligious conflicts and tensions
.
Okay, so pope stephen the sixthand I did put that in- wow pope
stephen's the sixth actionsagainst the dead Pope.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Is it Stephen or?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Stephan.
It's spelled Stephan.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
That's Stephen.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yes, I know.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
But you said Stephan and then you said Stephen.
Sorry, I meant Stephen, okay.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Pope Stephen VI.
His actions against the deadPope at the Catavra Synod were
completely unheard of in thehistory of the Catholic Church.
Okay, so Imagine this A trial.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Paint me a picture.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
We're in Italy.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
That was well done.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
During the trial, they appointed a deacon to speak
for Formosus because he's dead.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
That's horseshit.
You can't have someone elsespeak for him, even though I
understand he's dead.
But that's not it.
Oh God, have someone else speakfor him even though I
understand he's dead, but that'snot it, oh God.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Okay, they dug him up .
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I've heard of this.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
They dug up Pope Formosus.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
And they put him on a chair.
Basically right, they proppedhim up on a throne, like some
sort of creepy puppet.
Yes, I've heard of this Nowthat you bring this up.
I didn't know any of thedetails, though, but that's
fucking fantastic.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
That is just so weird .
This deacon was like talkingfor this dead pope did he get
behind him and go like?
I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Move his arms move his head and talk behind him.
Did he know his voice like, heyman, yeah, is she on pope for
most years?
It's like what the fuck I?
Oh, that's so great, because Iactually I don't remember where
I saw this read.
It was a brief snippet orsomething, but again, I didn't
know any details.
(21:14):
So this is fucking fantastic.
Well, well done good.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So one of the main charges was that dead Pope
Formosus sitting on the throne.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
He broke church law by leading more than one church.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Oh Jesus.
So, Doesn't the Pope lead allchurches?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Well, he was also.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I get that yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I understand where you're coming from.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
For sure, for sure, okay, yeah, the second charge
was of perjury because theythought he lied about.
Yes, he broke his promise um,if he actually did that, then
became pope as, like a layman,like I'm just gonna have the
title right and then finallypope.
That's perjury.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Okay, wow, that is staying in.
That one was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
The last charge was that he presented himself as
bishop even though he wasn't so.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
then that was a huge deal, so.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Right.
People believe that Formosusshouldn't be Pope, couldn't have
been Pope because he had brokenhis promise and was not a
priest.
Right, he wasn't, he wasn't, hejust was a dude.
He essentially like demotedhimself Right and then pretended
like he wasn't.
Huh, so Okay.
(22:34):
It would have been a majorinsult to the church, and the
trial was like a crazy mix ofthe religion and the politics
and in the end, formosis wasfound guilty even though he was
already dead so did they hangthe corpse?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I mean?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
they did desecrate the body.
Yeah, was he drawn and quoted.
He was stripped of his Popeclothes that he was buried in.
Well, yeah, because they'realways buried in their final
garb or whatever they cut offhis fingers because he used
those to bless people oh forfuck's sake.
And declared everything he didas Pope was completely invalid.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Do you think that someone made like a Formosa and
finger necklace Ew?
Speaker 1 (23:23):
What the hell?
Maybe you need to be on theorigin of weird.
You're weird, I'm pretty weird.
They essentially wanted toerase him from.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
They wanted to erase Formosa and everything that he
did.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
To make things worse, he didn't even get a proper
burial.
They buried him in a commongrave, just like anybody else.
Did they at least mark it?
Well, they buried him in acommon grave, just like anybody
else do they at least mark it?
Well, they dug him up againagain after they reburied him
they tied weights to his bodyand threw his body into the
tiber river.
What the fuck, wasn't thatbrutal?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
that is and he was so well respected well yeah, and
then all these fuckers thatthought they were gunning for
his job, formosa was like wegotta this fucker's dead, but we
gotta make him an example outof this guy.
Yeah, so they tied weights tohis body and threw him in the
river.
Yep, what the fuck so thecadaver synod was bizarre, yeah,
(24:22):
disturbing, and people werehorrified rightly they loved him
that, and not only that, theydug the guy up and put him on a
chair twice.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
They dug him up twice .
No one could believe thatstephen the six had done this,
and the public outrage led tohis downfall he was removed from
power, thrown in prison andevent.
Eventually he was strangled todeath oh good, yeah, fuck that
guy so the pope who came afterstephen vi tried to fix the
damage.
(24:52):
This was pope theodore ii.
Okay, and he had held a councilto officially overturn
everything that happened at thecadaver synod okay so big step
towards restoring formosa'sreputation right right and then
we have there's so many popes somany popes, popeademic, stop it
pope john the ninth umcondemned the synod and
(25:15):
supported theater.
The second's decision gotchaokay, so both pope theater,
second, and and Pope John IXhelped restore Formosa's honor.
Okay, so they found his body inthe river Formosa's yeah, which
had been so horribly treated.
Well, right, and they pulledhim out and they gave him a
proper burial at St Peter'sBasilica as a pope.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Well, I mean he was a pope.
Well, I mean he was a pope.
I get, like you got some dumbfucking bitches that are like
this guy's gunning for my job,so I gotta fuck up his
reputation and stuff.
And the only reason why he wasexiled or excommunicated or
whatever was because this popethought he was coming for him
(25:57):
yeah potential threat.
So then the only reason why theyeven got him on anything huge
air quotes is because I won't bea priest anymore.
But that's just because thisdick of a pope fucking said oh
man, this guy's gonna take myjob and I like this job yeah
what a fucking dick.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, so unfortunately, so fortunately,
pope sergius the third.
What's his name?
Sergius s-e-r-g-i-u-s that's aunique one, I don't know but
he's three, he's three, he's thethird oh my god, that was great
(26:35):
he was actually one of thejudges at the cadaver synod and
he became pope and brought backall the or whole charges against
formosis what is wrong withthese people?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
just fucking let it go naturally it opened new
wounds, old wounds showed howdeeply the church was divided
like I mean, believe what youwant about religion, and to each
your own who believe aboutreligion.
But these stupid fucks werejust about the fucking position
(27:10):
yeah, they did not actually careabout the church.
They just wanted that positionbecause of the power that it
came with.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
You know what a dick so the cadaver Senate is one of
the most infamous and shockingevents in the history of the
Catholic Church.
I've never heard about it, butit's fucking wild yeah and it
just shows you how much peoplewould go for power in the
medieval church.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Well, yeah, because again it was so respected.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
There were personal grudges and there were schemes
and religious arguments,religious arguments and
political arguments and just allruckus.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Yeah, they used Jesus and God's name and their
benefit basically is all it was,so it's just weird.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yeah, so that's the cadaver, synod.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
That's just so weird, so weird.
I've never heard of that before.
That's just so weird, so weird.
I've never heard of that before.
I'm pro Formosa.
Fuck Stephen and those otherfuckers.
I mean, what the hell?
That's just fucking dumb, yeah.
But wow, okay, I like that.
That was definitely a weird one.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Pope, formosa's and his cadaver trial.
His cadaver was on the throne.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
It's just funny because, again, I don't remember
where I heard of seeing this.
I remember seeing a picture.
I'll have to try and look forit after this.
I don't know.
Yes that's the one.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yep, that's the picture.
It's got it all set up forsocial media.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Perfect, because I don't remember how long ago it
was, I saw this.
I don't even remember what Iwas looking up.
I was looking up something,obviously, and I saw that I'm
like that's fucking wild, andall I knew was this pope was dug
up to be put on trial.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yes, I knew nothing else about what you just said,
so that's fantastic to actuallyhave some context behind that
picture do you think he was likeup in heaven, like on a cloud,
like on his belly with his handsunder his, his chin and kicking
his feet and just watching thisbullshit?
Go on and be like you know,this doesn't matter, right?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
pretty funny if you ask me oh shit, they threw my
body in the river.
What the fuck?
I mean, what the hell?
Speaker 1 (29:20):
and they dug him up twice, twice, and then they took
him out of the river.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Oh, my word.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
And finally properly buried him.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Good for him.
Yeah, wow, go Formosa, formosis.
I think Formosa needs a mimosa.
Well, I suppose.
All right, buffoons.
That's it for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Buckle up, because we've got another historical
adventure waiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
explore.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Hit us up on social media.
We're History Buffoons Podcaston YouTube X, instagram and
Facebook.
You can also email us athistorybuffoonspodcast at
gmailcom.
We are Bradley and Kate.
Music by Corey Akers.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn
those notifications on to stayin the loop.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to
rate and review us.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Remember, the buffoonery never stops.
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