February 13, 2025 • 21 mins
Ever wondered how people managed to wake up on time before the invention of reliable alarm clocks? Join us as we promise a journey through the quirky world of Victorian-era professions, where the "knocker uppers" reigned supreme. These human alarm clocks roamed the streets, tapping on windows with bamboo sticks or knocking on doors to rouse factory workers before dawn. Dive into the humorous and often chaotic world of these early risers who ensured the city never slept through the morning shift. We'll unravel how this peculiar job became a necessity in an era when time truly was money, and explore the inventive ways they navigated the challenges of their unconventional work.
But that's just the beginning! You'll also explore the unusual profession of "pure finders," dedicated to gathering dog feces for the leather industry—a surprising yet vital trade during the Victorian era. With insights from journalist Henry Mayhew's investigations, discover how these workers managed to turn waste into a commodity, forming contracts with dog kennels and shaping a unique economy. As we connect the dots between these past professions and modern waste collection services, you'll gain a newfound appreciation for the resilience and resourcefulness of those who thrived in unusual jobs. Prepare for a captivating blend of history, humor, and the oddities of the past that still resonate today.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-did-people-use-before-alarm-clocks
https://www.jack-the-ripper-tour.com/generalnews/the-knocker-upper/
https://www.nofreelunch.co.uk/blog/what-was-a-victorian-pure-finder/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
oh, hey, there, oh hey there, I'm kate and I'm brad
.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
And this is the Origin of Weird.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
By the History Buffoons.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, how are you today, kate?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm good.
I'm a little sluggish, but I'mgood.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
That seems to be a theme as of late on our podcast.
That's fair.
We tend to do it on weekendsafter like a full work week it's
, we fit it in when we can, wesure do, and that's what it
works, and that's okay.
Um, it's currently snowing outright now oh my god, so much
snow a lot of snow actually.
(00:53):
Yeah, I mean it's, it's well,it's my area of wisconsin's
first big, big snow right, yeah,so it's come down quite a bit
since 11, 10, 10, even before, Ithink.
So anyways, yeah, it's snowing.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
And we're going to make this quick because all my
cats are out.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So we don't want to.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
This will be fun.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Good thing this is just an origin yeah, because our
origins are usually on thequicker side.
So the main one I'm concernedabout is the one that's
currently.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
The orange one.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, we're eyeing up a cord right there hey.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Oi, oi, no, oliver, oliver, okay, we're going to
make this quick, okay, yeah,what are we going to talk about
today?
You tell me, okay.
That's right because I have theinformation.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yes, and I respond to it, oliver.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
He pulled on my ears.
Okay, he pulled on my ears.
We are going to talk about twodifferent Victorian era
professions.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yes, so the first one .
Yes, they're called knockeruppers.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Knocker uppers, I mean like people that just go
around and get people pregnant.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
No.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
So we're going to go to England and this is during
their industrial revolution,which was between like 1760 to
like 1840.
And then plus some.
Sure, this profession goes onbeyond the industrial revolution
.
Okay, but it was startedbecause of the yes of the
revolution.
So it was a time when factorieswere just popping up everywhere
(02:34):
, sure, and farmers were feelingum less needed okay, if you
will right because all thesefactories are now making farm
equipment that can replace themsure?
no, it makes sense so farmersactually moved into the cities
and started working in factories.
(02:55):
Okay, yeah, but if you recallfarmers, the traditional cliche
they're broken up by a rooster,yeah, the morning, sun shining
through, and they don't havealarms to actually tell them
when to go to work, because it'sflexible.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
This is where people went around and knocked on
people's doors, isn't it?
It is, I've seen this.
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
So farmers can get up whenever they want.
So when they're moving into thecity, they realize, oh crap, I
need to be on time.
All of a sudden, right yeah.
So people are needing a stableincome, which is a scarcity
right now, sure, and peoplecannot afford to miss a single
day's work.
Right, right, yeah so they hadto arrive at their factory jobs
(03:36):
on time every day, without fail,and if they were late you lose
that day's earnings or evenpotentially lose your job.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, for sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
And there were plenty of people to replace you yeah,
they, everyone needed work, soyeah, and the alarm clock was in
fact invented in the late 1700s, so it was around oh really but
it wasn't reliable and it wasway too expensive for some of
these like yeah low to lowmiddle class individuals, right,
no, that makes sense.
(04:05):
So no alarm clocks, no rooster.
What are these factory workersgoing to do?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
They're going to rely on somebody.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
They hire knocker uppers.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
That's so funny.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
It's called knocker uppers, so people would walk
around these cities and ringtheir doorbells and knock on
their doors to wake them up fortheir shifts.
Right, and sometimes as earlyas like 3 am.
Like these knocker uppers wouldstay up all night and that was
their third shift work, you knowyeah, basically yeah, um,
that's funny, yeah, so in factit was cheaper to hire a person
(04:41):
to wake them up than it was tobuy an alarm clock isn't that
wild to think about.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, that is pretty crazy because knowing that, like
this person, had to be on timeto your place it's like what if?
What if multiple people neededto be up at 3am?
They just have to hireindividual people for themselves
.
Is that what they did?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So it depends on the area.
There's a, there's a knockerupper per like square footage,
several mile radius, and theywould go to the houses that need
it first, and a lot of timesthey would have these signs in
the window say please wake me upat such and such time, or it
was like a verbal contract kindof thing.
Sure, wow.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
So there were even some factories who would hire
knocker uppers for their ownemployees.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Which makes sense, because they want their people
into work.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
So the unique profession grew throughout the
cities own employees, whichmakes sense because they they
want their people into work.
Yeah, exactly so.
So the unique profession grewthroughout the cities and, of
course, there had to be somecurmudgeons.
Um, with all the noise comingfrom the streets wrapping on
doors, ringing doorbells, thereare plenty of people who did not
want to be woken up at thattime but were because of that
exactly so even other familymembers in the household are
getting woken up.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, like dad needs to get up at four.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
But mom and the kids don't.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
They don't need to get up till six or whatever.
It might be.
Exactly Sure, sure.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So the knocker upper solution was to carry really
long bamboo sticks because oftheir light weight.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
And they would put, like a poker or a bell or
something metal on the end andthey would tap on windows.
So they knew which window yes,yes, and that's how they would
wake up their pain clients.
They also don't want to wake upthese neighbors who are not
paying for the service, whichare relying them, relying on
them to be loud right so thiswas another way to be like okay,
(06:21):
we're, we're not waking you up,we're going to be really quiet.
We got the person that is payingfor us.
That's so weird, smarty pants.
So they were good and they werebad knocker uppers.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
The good ones would wrap on your windows until they
alerted the person.
So there would be like a waveout the window.
The blinds were coming up, thecandles were lit inside the room
.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So they basically knew their job was done there
Exactly and move on Exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
The bad ones would rap on the window three or four
times and just move along Liketime is money type of thing.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, so I get it, but it's like that sucks,
because if you don't know thatyour person's actually awake,
then oh dear yeah you're beingpaid for a service.
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
And if you didn't get them up, I don't think they're
going to pay you to come back.
I wouldn't pay them Exactly.
Screw that.
Yeah, wow.
So police would also supplementtheir income by being knocker
uppers.
Well, I guess, if they're outand about, right.
Yeah, exactly.
So if they're on their beat,they're going to be there anyway
(07:22):
, why not?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
that I mean makes sense yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
So this kind of leads me to a story that could
unravel for hours if we let it.
So I am going to be brief,because it is not quite about
the knocker uppers, but sure ithas a knocker up, knocker up in
the story, gotcha.
So in august of 1888, a man bythe name of Charles Cross was a
(07:46):
driver at the time, okay, and hewas on his way to work at about
3.40 in the morning.
So he noticed a woman lying onthe ground in an area of London
called Buck's Row and she hadbeen stabbed.
Oh geez, yes.
So while he was confirming whathe saw, another gentleman came
up to him Okay.
(08:07):
His name was Robert Paul.
And together the men are likethere's a woman dead here on the
streets of London, what do wedo?
Well, together they found apoliceman who was a
knocker-upper at the time.
Okay, yes.
So they go to him and they'relike're like hey, there's a
woman back here on buck's row,she's dead.
(08:29):
And he's like I, I'll be therewhen I'm done with my knocker
uppers.
So he's just like, yeah, wellexactly, he just kept doing his
knocker upper job.
That's wild, yeah okay so whenthat policeman finally did get
to the scene, an investigationwas already going.
Sure, like he kind of missedthe boat, I'd say so, but get
this Okay.
Get this.
(08:50):
The woman was Mary Nichols.
She was potentially notentirely confirmed, but most
likely the very first victim ofJack the Ripper.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I was going to say this has to deal with Jack the
Ripper.
Yes, that's wild.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yes, so now, if the policeman had stopped doing his
knocker over job, could he havemaybe gone to the scene and
maybe caught the person.
Who knows?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
We don't know.
I mean we don't know they never, they never caught Jack the
Ripper, so they didn't.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
But for those who do want to continue down this
rabbit hole because, like I said, the thread could unravel for
hours the first man who foundher, charles Cross.
His testimony was taken as factfor years, but until 2012,
cross became a suspect due toseveral factors.
(09:41):
Sure, he lived and worked inthe area.
Robert Paul, the second personto arrive at the crime scene,
gave a slightly differentaccount of Cross's position when
he arrived.
Oh so the discrepancy fuels thetheory that Cross had actually
perhaps done the murder himself.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
And the name Cross is a pseudonym.
Oh, it's fake.
Okay, that's not even his reallast name, gotcha.
His real last name was lechmer.
it's spelled l-e-c-h-m-e-r-eokay so the case is entirely
circumstantial but, like I said,unravel for hours so if you
wanted to continue that story,by all means, by all means, but
(10:22):
there is a knocker upper on thatstory.
That's funny, okay.
So now many women also use thisprofession as a way to
financially stabilize themselves, and they would use this kind
of as a side hustle while alsostill working in factories and
children would also be knockeruppers and then go to continue
being in school all day okay soone such woman we have, mary
(10:45):
smith mary smith okay she wouldwalk her streets with a pea
shooter.
Oh really, she had a tube thatshe would blow into like a straw
yeah and a hardened pea to hitthe window, hit the window,
really, and that's how she wokeup her clients and it must have
worked because people know whoshe is well exactly and there's
(11:09):
a photographer that tookpictures of her and he shot to
stardom based on this picture.
Did he really?
Yeah, which I'll have in oursocial media.
That's funny.
So her nearest competition waslike three miles away.
It was an old man using afishing rod but so she has like
about three miles of her ownspace.
Sure, um, but she would chargeher clients about six pence a
(11:29):
week, which is about six pennies, okay, um.
So at one point theseknocker-upper for about 60 years
60 years A long time Holy shit,a long time, wow.
And her daughter, molly Moore,was one of the last
(11:53):
knocker-uppers in England.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
She was in that profession for about 20 years
and used her mother's peashooter once her mother retired.
So eventually her job fell awayas more and more people were
buying and relying on alarmclocks.
They got cheaper yeah exactlyso.
By the 1940s 1950s thisprofession has pretty much
entirely died out, although itactually did continue in some um
(12:17):
areas in england until the1970s.
That's wild to think about.
The last knocker-upper retiredfrom the job in 1973 in Bolton,
which is near Manchester.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It's really weird to think that six years before I
was born, people were stilldoing that.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Isn't that crazy.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
That is crazy, because I mean 1973?
.
Yeah, you wouldn't think theywould need that type of
profession at that point.
All right, that's weird.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So, in reference to your pregnancy, knocked up the
term, kind of adapted throughouthistory, it wasn't something
that it did not come from.
Knocker uppers Right come from.
Knocker uppers right, um, whatit could have come from, but not
(13:09):
, um, not clear is the termknocking house, which was
another name for a brothel.
Oh, okay, so, but that theorigins remain completely
unclear oh really but that is apotential.
The brothels were calledknocking houses.
At one point knocked up gotchaokay, so our next profession oh
dear yes, victorian londoners,they love their dogs just as
much as we love our dogs today.
(13:30):
But they weren't great aboutcleaning up after themselves so
they would leave the shit in thestreets they would leave the
shit in the sheets, sheets,sheets streets that's weird
Streets.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Streets.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
There we go.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Let's move on.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So while some areas were kept pretty tidy by hired
street orderlies, a much largergroup of people called peer
finders P-U-R-E.
Peer finders roamed the streetswith covered buckets collecting
dog poop.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
That sounds like a terrible job.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Purefinders were paid by tanneries who used dog feces
along with lime in the processto purify and soften leather.
Really, yes, Interesting.
So the name purefinder comesfrom the French word pierre,
which is P-U-E-R, which meansanimal dung used in tanning.
(14:29):
Oh, wow.
So for some reason Victoriansalso refer to dog waste as pure
P-U-R-E, hence the name forthose who collected it.
So our understanding of PureFinders comes from an
investigative journalist namedHenry Mayhew.
Okay, he was considered one ofthe first and he meticulously
(14:50):
documented these peer finders ofLondon.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
That's a weird thing to do, but okay yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
So he shed some light on the struggles of those
without regular employment andwho resorted to peer finding to
survive like supplement theirincome, if you will yes, so
mayhew estimated that in themid-1800s there were
approximately 200 to 300 peerfinders in london alone.
Wow, mostly women, and they haddifficulty earning and living
(15:18):
through more conventional meansright.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
So that makes sense why they would maybe go that
route, yes, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
So okay, makes sense so pure finders earned between
eight and ten pence per bucketokay which is actually pretty
respectable for that time.
Yeah, no kidding.
So the al, the alkaline content, yeah, in the dog poop was was
what drew them to the dogexcrement.
(15:45):
So it was a dry limey sort iswhat this guy quoted as saying
in his investigative journalismOkay.
So it was the most valuablebecause of its superior
purifying properties.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Oh Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Interesting.
So it might seem like a lowlyprofession, but average income
was about 13 pounds a year,which was pretty good for that
time.
Oh, really.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, it was compared to other working class
Londoners, that's kind of weirdto think about that Someone
picking up shit could be make aliving yeah, we'll call it yeah
wow, okay so the job of a purefinder was simple walk the
streets of london, collect dogdroppings.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
This required a bucket with a hinged lid to
conceal their contents and theirodor sure keep flies away.
Yep, but the key differencebetween modern dog owners and
victorian pure finders is theuse of disposable bags.
Right, right so according tomayhew the journalist, many pure
finders use their bare hands.
Oh yeah, mayhew wrote in londonlabor and london poor quote the
(16:54):
pure finder is often found inthe open streets as dogs wander,
always carrying a handle basket, generally with a cover to hide
the contents, with a blackleather glove.
Many of them dispense with theglove, as they say it's much
easier to wash their hands thanto keep the glove fit for use.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
I mean I suppose, but still gross.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
So because tanners preferred a specific type of dog
waste, pure finders developedtechniques to achieve that
desired consistency.
They would mix droppings withloose mortar scraped from
brickwork.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
To make it like super dry.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
So the number of pure finders wasn't limited to, like
, the people's aversion to thework, but rather by the market
Sure.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, so the most successful pure finders had
secured contracts with dogkennels, ensuring a steady
supply.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Sure, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And then, of course, others were left to scour the
streets, of course, but therelatively high earning
potential of the trade even ledto the development of a dog
waste supply chain that's wildso some pure finders became
middlemen middlemen.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
What is that?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
and they would pay the poorest individuals a small
portion of what the tannerswould pay.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Okay, to actually do the collecting so they wouldn't
have to do it, but they get amajor part of the profit.
Exactly Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Exactly, wow, yes.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
That's weird.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
So the waste was literally rubbed into animal
hides during the tanning processto purify them, before being
crafted into leather gloves,book bindings, shoes.
So, although it seems quitegross, it does shoes.
So although it seems quitegross, it does.
It's worth noting that thetanning industry in morocco
(18:48):
still uses pigeon droppingsreally for the same purpose,
that's just, and it's calledbatting or bathing, b-a-t-i-n-g.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
So something to consider next time you go
shopping for any leather goods Idon't really buy a lot of
leather, so I don't think I'mgoing to have to worry about how
much shit was put on my leathergloves or whatever I would
happen to buy for that matter,but that's weird.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
But that's just two of many weird professions in the
Victorian area of London.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Pure finders and knocker uppers.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
It's funny because I just saw something on the
knocker uppers.
It's not.
It's funny cause I just sawsomething on the knocker uppers.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Did you?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Not that long ago.
So it's funny that you bring itup, Cause, yeah, I'm like what
kind of job would?
That's just weird.
It's a human alarm clock.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Human alarm clock Exactly.
That's just funny yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
And no, I would not want to go walking around
picking up dog shit With yourbare hand.
I I don't remember.
This was two weeks ago maybe.
Um, I was driving next to atruck but it had pictures of a
dog and stuff like they.
They advertised on their truckthat they would come and clean
up the dog poop in your area orwhatever oh, so it was an actual
service that they provided,yeah so like, well, that's weird
(19:56):
, so it's modern day peer findersure is I don't know how busy
they're, but not a job for me,probably not no same, but that's
pretty funny I will I will passon both those jobs.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
That's weird yeah, that's weird, that is weird well
I suppose all right, buffoons.
That's it for today's episodebuckle up, because we've got
another historical adventurewaiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
(20:30):
explore.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Hit us up on social media.
We're History Buffoons Podcaston YouTube X, instagram and
Facebook.
You can also email us athistorybuffoonspodcast at
gmailcom.
We are Bradley and Kate.
Music by Corey Akers.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn
those notifications on to stayin the loop.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to
rate and review us.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Remember the buffoonery never stops.
Love it, love it, Love it.
oh, hey, there, oh hey there, I'm kate and I'm brad
.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
And this is the Origin of Weird.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
By the History Buffoons.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, how are you today, kate?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm good.
I'm a little sluggish, but I'mgood.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
That seems to be a theme as of late on our podcast.
That's fair.
We tend to do it on weekendsafter like a full work week it's
, we fit it in when we can, wesure do, and that's what it
works, and that's okay.
Um, it's currently snowing outright now oh my god, so much
snow a lot of snow actually.
(00:53):
Yeah, I mean it's, it's well,it's my area of wisconsin's
first big, big snow right, yeah,so it's come down quite a bit
since 11, 10, 10, even before, Ithink.
So anyways, yeah, it's snowing.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
And we're going to make this quick because all my
cats are out.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So we don't want to.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
This will be fun.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Good thing this is just an origin yeah, because our
origins are usually on thequicker side.
So the main one I'm concernedabout is the one that's
currently.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
The orange one.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, we're eyeing up a cord right there hey.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Oi, oi, no, oliver, oliver, okay, we're going to
make this quick, okay, yeah,what are we going to talk about
today?
You tell me, okay.
That's right because I have theinformation.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yes, and I respond to it, oliver.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
He pulled on my ears.
Okay, he pulled on my ears.
We are going to talk about twodifferent Victorian era
professions.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yes, so the first one .
Yes, they're called knockeruppers.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Knocker uppers, I mean like people that just go
around and get people pregnant.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
No.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
So we're going to go to England and this is during
their industrial revolution,which was between like 1760 to
like 1840.
And then plus some.
Sure, this profession goes onbeyond the industrial revolution
.
Okay, but it was startedbecause of the yes of the
revolution.
So it was a time when factorieswere just popping up everywhere
(02:34):
, sure, and farmers were feelingum less needed okay, if you
will right because all thesefactories are now making farm
equipment that can replace themsure?
no, it makes sense so farmersactually moved into the cities
and started working in factories.
(02:55):
Okay, yeah, but if you recallfarmers, the traditional cliche
they're broken up by a rooster,yeah, the morning, sun shining
through, and they don't havealarms to actually tell them
when to go to work, because it'sflexible.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
This is where people went around and knocked on
people's doors, isn't it?
It is, I've seen this.
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
So farmers can get up whenever they want.
So when they're moving into thecity, they realize, oh crap, I
need to be on time.
All of a sudden, right yeah.
So people are needing a stableincome, which is a scarcity
right now, sure, and peoplecannot afford to miss a single
day's work.
Right, right, yeah so they hadto arrive at their factory jobs
(03:36):
on time every day, without fail,and if they were late you lose
that day's earnings or evenpotentially lose your job.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, for sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
And there were plenty of people to replace you yeah,
they, everyone needed work, soyeah, and the alarm clock was in
fact invented in the late 1700s, so it was around oh really but
it wasn't reliable and it wasway too expensive for some of
these like yeah low to lowmiddle class individuals, right,
no, that makes sense.
(04:05):
So no alarm clocks, no rooster.
What are these factory workersgoing to do?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
They're going to rely on somebody.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
They hire knocker uppers.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
That's so funny.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
It's called knocker uppers, so people would walk
around these cities and ringtheir doorbells and knock on
their doors to wake them up fortheir shifts.
Right, and sometimes as earlyas like 3 am.
Like these knocker uppers wouldstay up all night and that was
their third shift work, you knowyeah, basically yeah, um,
that's funny, yeah, so in factit was cheaper to hire a person
(04:41):
to wake them up than it was tobuy an alarm clock isn't that
wild to think about.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, that is pretty crazy because knowing that, like
this person, had to be on timeto your place it's like what if?
What if multiple people neededto be up at 3am?
They just have to hireindividual people for themselves
.
Is that what they did?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So it depends on the area.
There's a, there's a knockerupper per like square footage,
several mile radius, and theywould go to the houses that need
it first, and a lot of timesthey would have these signs in
the window say please wake me upat such and such time, or it
was like a verbal contract kindof thing.
Sure, wow.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
So there were even some factories who would hire
knocker uppers for their ownemployees.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Which makes sense, because they want their people
into work.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
So the unique profession grew throughout the
cities own employees, whichmakes sense because they they
want their people into work.
Yeah, exactly so.
So the unique profession grewthroughout the cities and, of
course, there had to be somecurmudgeons.
Um, with all the noise comingfrom the streets wrapping on
doors, ringing doorbells, thereare plenty of people who did not
want to be woken up at thattime but were because of that
exactly so even other familymembers in the household are
getting woken up.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, like dad needs to get up at four.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
But mom and the kids don't.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
They don't need to get up till six or whatever.
It might be.
Exactly Sure, sure.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So the knocker upper solution was to carry really
long bamboo sticks because oftheir light weight.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
And they would put, like a poker or a bell or
something metal on the end andthey would tap on windows.
So they knew which window yes,yes, and that's how they would
wake up their pain clients.
They also don't want to wake upthese neighbors who are not
paying for the service, whichare relying them, relying on
them to be loud right so thiswas another way to be like okay,
(06:21):
we're, we're not waking you up,we're going to be really quiet.
We got the person that is payingfor us.
That's so weird, smarty pants.
So they were good and they werebad knocker uppers.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
The good ones would wrap on your windows until they
alerted the person.
So there would be like a waveout the window.
The blinds were coming up, thecandles were lit inside the room
.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So they basically knew their job was done there
Exactly and move on Exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
The bad ones would rap on the window three or four
times and just move along Liketime is money type of thing.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, so I get it, but it's like that sucks,
because if you don't know thatyour person's actually awake,
then oh dear yeah you're beingpaid for a service.
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
And if you didn't get them up, I don't think they're
going to pay you to come back.
I wouldn't pay them Exactly.
Screw that.
Yeah, wow.
So police would also supplementtheir income by being knocker
uppers.
Well, I guess, if they're outand about, right.
Yeah, exactly.
So if they're on their beat,they're going to be there anyway
(07:22):
, why not?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
that I mean makes sense yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
So this kind of leads me to a story that could
unravel for hours if we let it.
So I am going to be brief,because it is not quite about
the knocker uppers, but sure ithas a knocker up, knocker up in
the story, gotcha.
So in august of 1888, a man bythe name of Charles Cross was a
(07:46):
driver at the time, okay, and hewas on his way to work at about
3.40 in the morning.
So he noticed a woman lying onthe ground in an area of London
called Buck's Row and she hadbeen stabbed.
Oh geez, yes.
So while he was confirming whathe saw, another gentleman came
up to him Okay.
(08:07):
His name was Robert Paul.
And together the men are likethere's a woman dead here on the
streets of London, what do wedo?
Well, together they found apoliceman who was a
knocker-upper at the time.
Okay, yes.
So they go to him and they'relike're like hey, there's a
woman back here on buck's row,she's dead.
(08:29):
And he's like I, I'll be therewhen I'm done with my knocker
uppers.
So he's just like, yeah, wellexactly, he just kept doing his
knocker upper job.
That's wild, yeah okay so whenthat policeman finally did get
to the scene, an investigationwas already going.
Sure, like he kind of missedthe boat, I'd say so, but get
this Okay.
Get this.
(08:50):
The woman was Mary Nichols.
She was potentially notentirely confirmed, but most
likely the very first victim ofJack the Ripper.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I was going to say this has to deal with Jack the
Ripper.
Yes, that's wild.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yes, so now, if the policeman had stopped doing his
knocker over job, could he havemaybe gone to the scene and
maybe caught the person.
Who knows?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
We don't know.
I mean we don't know they never, they never caught Jack the
Ripper, so they didn't.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
But for those who do want to continue down this
rabbit hole because, like I said, the thread could unravel for
hours the first man who foundher, charles Cross.
His testimony was taken as factfor years, but until 2012,
cross became a suspect due toseveral factors.
(09:41):
Sure, he lived and worked inthe area.
Robert Paul, the second personto arrive at the crime scene,
gave a slightly differentaccount of Cross's position when
he arrived.
Oh so the discrepancy fuels thetheory that Cross had actually
perhaps done the murder himself.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
And the name Cross is a pseudonym.
Oh, it's fake.
Okay, that's not even his reallast name, gotcha.
His real last name was lechmer.
it's spelled l-e-c-h-m-e-r-eokay so the case is entirely
circumstantial but, like I said,unravel for hours so if you
wanted to continue that story,by all means, by all means, but
(10:22):
there is a knocker upper on thatstory.
That's funny, okay.
So now many women also use thisprofession as a way to
financially stabilize themselves, and they would use this kind
of as a side hustle while alsostill working in factories and
children would also be knockeruppers and then go to continue
being in school all day okay soone such woman we have, mary
(10:45):
smith mary smith okay she wouldwalk her streets with a pea
shooter.
Oh really, she had a tube thatshe would blow into like a straw
yeah and a hardened pea to hitthe window, hit the window,
really, and that's how she wokeup her clients and it must have
worked because people know whoshe is well exactly and there's
(11:09):
a photographer that tookpictures of her and he shot to
stardom based on this picture.
Did he really?
Yeah, which I'll have in oursocial media.
That's funny.
So her nearest competition waslike three miles away.
It was an old man using afishing rod but so she has like
about three miles of her ownspace.
Sure, um, but she would chargeher clients about six pence a
(11:29):
week, which is about six pennies, okay, um.
So at one point theseknocker-upper for about 60 years
60 years A long time Holy shit,a long time, wow.
And her daughter, molly Moore,was one of the last
(11:53):
knocker-uppers in England.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
She was in that profession for about 20 years
and used her mother's peashooter once her mother retired.
So eventually her job fell awayas more and more people were
buying and relying on alarmclocks.
They got cheaper yeah exactlyso.
By the 1940s 1950s thisprofession has pretty much
entirely died out, although itactually did continue in some um
(12:17):
areas in england until the1970s.
That's wild to think about.
The last knocker-upper retiredfrom the job in 1973 in Bolton,
which is near Manchester.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It's really weird to think that six years before I
was born, people were stilldoing that.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Isn't that crazy.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
That is crazy, because I mean 1973?
.
Yeah, you wouldn't think theywould need that type of
profession at that point.
All right, that's weird.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So, in reference to your pregnancy, knocked up the
term, kind of adapted throughouthistory, it wasn't something
that it did not come from.
Knocker uppers Right come from.
Knocker uppers right, um, whatit could have come from, but not
(13:09):
, um, not clear is the termknocking house, which was
another name for a brothel.
Oh, okay, so, but that theorigins remain completely
unclear oh really but that is apotential.
The brothels were calledknocking houses.
At one point knocked up gotchaokay, so our next profession oh
dear yes, victorian londoners,they love their dogs just as
much as we love our dogs today.
(13:30):
But they weren't great aboutcleaning up after themselves so
they would leave the shit in thestreets they would leave the
shit in the sheets, sheets,sheets streets that's weird
Streets.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Streets.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
There we go.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Let's move on.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So while some areas were kept pretty tidy by hired
street orderlies, a much largergroup of people called peer
finders P-U-R-E.
Peer finders roamed the streetswith covered buckets collecting
dog poop.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
That sounds like a terrible job.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Purefinders were paid by tanneries who used dog feces
along with lime in the processto purify and soften leather.
Really, yes, Interesting.
So the name purefinder comesfrom the French word pierre,
which is P-U-E-R, which meansanimal dung used in tanning.
(14:29):
Oh, wow.
So for some reason Victoriansalso refer to dog waste as pure
P-U-R-E, hence the name forthose who collected it.
So our understanding of PureFinders comes from an
investigative journalist namedHenry Mayhew.
Okay, he was considered one ofthe first and he meticulously
(14:50):
documented these peer finders ofLondon.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
That's a weird thing to do, but okay yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
So he shed some light on the struggles of those
without regular employment andwho resorted to peer finding to
survive like supplement theirincome, if you will yes, so
mayhew estimated that in themid-1800s there were
approximately 200 to 300 peerfinders in london alone.
Wow, mostly women, and they haddifficulty earning and living
(15:18):
through more conventional meansright.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
So that makes sense why they would maybe go that
route, yes, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
So okay, makes sense so pure finders earned between
eight and ten pence per bucketokay which is actually pretty
respectable for that time.
Yeah, no kidding.
So the al, the alkaline content, yeah, in the dog poop was was
what drew them to the dogexcrement.
(15:45):
So it was a dry limey sort iswhat this guy quoted as saying
in his investigative journalismOkay.
So it was the most valuablebecause of its superior
purifying properties.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Oh Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Interesting.
So it might seem like a lowlyprofession, but average income
was about 13 pounds a year,which was pretty good for that
time.
Oh, really.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, it was compared to other working class
Londoners, that's kind of weirdto think about that Someone
picking up shit could be make aliving yeah, we'll call it yeah
wow, okay so the job of a purefinder was simple walk the
streets of london, collect dogdroppings.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
This required a bucket with a hinged lid to
conceal their contents and theirodor sure keep flies away.
Yep, but the key differencebetween modern dog owners and
victorian pure finders is theuse of disposable bags.
Right, right so according tomayhew the journalist, many pure
finders use their bare hands.
Oh yeah, mayhew wrote in londonlabor and london poor quote the
(16:54):
pure finder is often found inthe open streets as dogs wander,
always carrying a handle basket, generally with a cover to hide
the contents, with a blackleather glove.
Many of them dispense with theglove, as they say it's much
easier to wash their hands thanto keep the glove fit for use.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
I mean I suppose, but still gross.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
So because tanners preferred a specific type of dog
waste, pure finders developedtechniques to achieve that
desired consistency.
They would mix droppings withloose mortar scraped from
brickwork.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
To make it like super dry.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
So the number of pure finders wasn't limited to, like
, the people's aversion to thework, but rather by the market
Sure.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, so the most successful pure finders had
secured contracts with dogkennels, ensuring a steady
supply.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Sure, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And then, of course, others were left to scour the
streets, of course, but therelatively high earning
potential of the trade even ledto the development of a dog
waste supply chain that's wildso some pure finders became
middlemen middlemen.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
What is that?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
and they would pay the poorest individuals a small
portion of what the tannerswould pay.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Okay, to actually do the collecting so they wouldn't
have to do it, but they get amajor part of the profit.
Exactly Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Exactly, wow, yes.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
That's weird.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
So the waste was literally rubbed into animal
hides during the tanning processto purify them, before being
crafted into leather gloves,book bindings, shoes.
So, although it seems quitegross, it does shoes.
So although it seems quitegross, it does.
It's worth noting that thetanning industry in morocco
(18:48):
still uses pigeon droppingsreally for the same purpose,
that's just, and it's calledbatting or bathing, b-a-t-i-n-g.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
So something to consider next time you go
shopping for any leather goods Idon't really buy a lot of
leather, so I don't think I'mgoing to have to worry about how
much shit was put on my leathergloves or whatever I would
happen to buy for that matter,but that's weird.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
But that's just two of many weird professions in the
Victorian area of London.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Pure finders and knocker uppers.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
It's funny because I just saw something on the
knocker uppers.
It's not.
It's funny cause I just sawsomething on the knocker uppers.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Did you?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Not that long ago.
So it's funny that you bring itup, Cause, yeah, I'm like what
kind of job would?
That's just weird.
It's a human alarm clock.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Human alarm clock Exactly.
That's just funny yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
And no, I would not want to go walking around
picking up dog shit With yourbare hand.
I I don't remember.
This was two weeks ago maybe.
Um, I was driving next to atruck but it had pictures of a
dog and stuff like they.
They advertised on their truckthat they would come and clean
up the dog poop in your area orwhatever oh, so it was an actual
service that they provided,yeah so like, well, that's weird
(19:56):
, so it's modern day peer findersure is I don't know how busy
they're, but not a job for me,probably not no same, but that's
pretty funny I will I will passon both those jobs.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
That's weird yeah, that's weird, that is weird well
I suppose all right, buffoons.
That's it for today's episodebuckle up, because we've got
another historical adventurewaiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
(20:30):
explore.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Hit us up on social media.
We're History Buffoons Podcaston YouTube X, instagram and
Facebook.
You can also email us athistorybuffoonspodcast at
gmailcom.
We are Bradley and Kate.
Music by Corey Akers.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn
those notifications on to stayin the loop.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to
rate and review us.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Remember the buffoonery never stops.
Love it, love it, Love it.
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