April 10, 2025 • 39 mins
Did you know a murder mystery novel once helped solve a real-life poisoning case? Agatha Christie's meticulous research and personal experience created stories so scientifically accurate they've saved actual lives.
Join us as we dive into "The Pale Horse," Christie's 1961 novel that introduced many readers to the deadly poison thallium. We explore how Christie's wartime experience as a nurse and pharmacy worker gave her intimate knowledge of toxicology that she wove into her mysteries with chilling accuracy. Her detailed descriptions of thallium poisoning symptoms – hair loss, nerve damage, and gastrointestinal distress – later helped medical professionals recognize and diagnose real cases that might otherwise have been fatal.
But Christie's detailed portrayal of this obscure poison had darker consequences too. We examine two disturbing true crime cases: Graham Young, who poisoned family members and colleagues in England, and George Trepal, who used thallium-laced Coca-Cola to murder his Florida neighbor after threatening her family. When investigators searched Trepal's home, they discovered something chilling – a copy of "The Pale Horse" among his possessions.
The story takes a remarkable turn with the case of a desperately ill toddler whose life was saved when a nurse recognized symptoms from Christie's novel. When conventional diagnosis failed, literature succeeded – proving that fiction sometimes has very real consequences.
Can words kill? Should authors censor their knowledge? Or does saving even one life justify sharing potentially dangerous information? Listen now for this fascinating exploration of how the Queen of Crime's work transcended fiction to impact real-world medicine and criminal justice.
The true story of how The Pale Horse caught a criminal and saved lives by Morgan Jeffery
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/drama/pale-horse-true-story-saved-lives/
The Home of Agatha Christie
https://www.agathachristie.com/stories/the-pale-horse
Science Direct
Hachamovitch, Rory and heppard, M. N.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/thallium
How Agatha Christie mystery The Pale Horse may have inspired a murderer by Betsy Reed
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/feb/09/how-agatha-christie-mystery-the-pale-horse-may-have-inspired-a-murderer
A truly poisonous plot twist by Sam Leith
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20200220/281852940590602?srsltid=AfmBOoqYZwgQrPo0jrrJswWzD6-3wHQNL94NCOy6LKT9eO7GhiCk17yP
https://murderpedia.org/male.T/t/trepal-george.htm
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
oh, hey there oh, hey there how are you?
Oh, it came from my throatsounds like I'm better than you.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
We're the History Buffoons.
Yes, I am Bradley, I am Kate,and this is an origin of weird.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Good job.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The enthusiasm exuding from you is just
mind-blowing.
Did you ever watch SaturdayNight Live at all?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, a little bit Back in the day at least no, not
really bit back in the day.
At least no, not really notback in the day.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So uh, I'm not talking like the 80s, I'm
talking more like 90s, early2000 anyways no, not so much I
forget the two actresses name,but, uh, or comedians, whatever,
but they did the talk showradio, uh, where they talk all
like you know molly shannon yesand anna guest steyer.
Yeah, that's, that's, right,yeah that's what you sound like
(01:07):
today.
Just wanted to let you knowthat shall I try?
It.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I think you should welcome back to another episode
of the origin of weird.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, this is how I'm gonna talk, while you talk like
that that's pretty good thoughthough I mean it wasn't bad.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, I remember that yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
One of the best episodes was the sweaty balls.
Sweaty balls, yeah, with AlecBaldwin, alec Baldwin, that's
right, yep, I have seen that oneSweaty balls Sweaty balls.
Tell me more about your sweatyballs, yep, like meatballs or
essentially or something.
Yeah, it was meatballs, orsomething like that.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
And his last name was Shwetty.
Tell me about your.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Shwetty balls.
Such a great, such a greatepisode of that, yeah, but
anyways, what do you got for ustoday on the origin of weird?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Okay, so we are going to talk about a couple of
things.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Okay, jesus Christ, so more than just.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Shwetty ballsdy balls .
Um, we're gonna talk a littlebit about agatha christie.
Oh yeah, I know her well.
You are old enough, youprobably no, we grew up together
, yeah, yeah yeah, um, and weare going to talk about a book
that she wrote okay and we'regoing to talk about a poison oh
poison yeah it's a woman'sweapon.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I hear that's what they say at least yeah so agatha
christie was born.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Agatha mary clarissa miller so many names.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I know those english, I tell you she was born in 1890
.
Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, we go wayback yeah, in england, as you
mentioned.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, um, she was educated at home and she was
pretty much a talent right atthe beginning.
Yeah, yeah, wow, something herand I don't have in common
during world war one, shevolunteered as a nurse with the
voluntary aid detachment okayand they called it the vad.
(03:04):
So everywhere I read vad I was.
Like I was gonna call it the bad, yeah, yeah um, so she saw a
lot of medical care, um, shetreated a lot of wounded
soldiers firsthand.
You know everything like thatright then she moved on to a
hospital dispensary so like ahospital that sold weed more,
(03:24):
more like a pharmacy oh, okay,yeah, I don't know.
Just dispensaries are everywherethese days, so that's fair
that's fair yeah, um, I guessI'm using this interchangeably
now so, but she gained a lot ofknowledge of drugs and most
notably poisons, right.
So it was quite clear that herexperience in the war and in the
(03:53):
pharmacy, that knowledgetranslated pretty well into her
novels.
Okay fair enough.
Yeah, so her career began withthe book the Mysterious Affair
at Stiles, and that was in 1920.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Okay, so she was 30 at this time.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
That was her first published book.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
That was her first published book Okay and the
Mysterious Affairs at Stiles.
Publication introduced HerculePirol.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Hercule.
Hercule, yeah, I know, it'ssuch a weird name.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It's very from um hercule puerol I just call him
kenneth brenna the movie yes,because he's the one who's most
recently played him.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I'm sure there's been other movie adaptations for it.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, he was great.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I thought he was awesome as that character.
I'm a big fan of KennethBranagh as a director and an
actor, though.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Oh, I didn't know he was a director too.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
He directed the Thor movie.
No, the first one, sweet.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
What a talented man.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
More than that.
And then I think he wastechnically if I the director on
those Agatha Christie movies.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I believe Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
If I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So we're talking about the movie Murder on the
Orient Express.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And Death on the Nile .
Speaker 1 (05:12):
And I have not yet seen that one.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, no, that's on a list of mine to show you.
And then there was a morerecent one that I am drawing a
blank on the name of it Same?
Yeah, I don't recall I thinkthat was a straight streaming
service.
One, oh, okay.
The other two came out in thetheater, okay, but yeah, anyways
.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Okay, so she had about 66 detective novels, wow,
and 14 short story collectionsas well.
Holy crap, that's quite a lot.
And she is titled as the queenof crime.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Oh, who's the king?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Probably.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Sherlock Holmes.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, or at least Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, yeah, yeah,
yeah, all right, let's go withthat.
Let's just go with that.
Yeah, I mean, that's fact now.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
They're both from England, so, king, let's go with
that.
Let's just go with that.
Yeah, I mean, that's fact now.
They're both from England, soKing Queen makes more sense over
there than here.
100%, so 100%.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Okay, so I actually did mention Murder on the Orient
Express right here, but sothat's one of our more popular
books, as well as Death on theNile.
And there was another reallypopular one, and I didn't write
it down because I'm an idiot,okay, and there was another
really popular one and I didn'twrite it down because I'm an
idiot.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Okay, I'm drawing a blank on some of her other books
.
I know of her books.
I don't know how many I'veactually read.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I've only read a couple.
I think I've read one or two,but Because of the story, I
actually borrowed the audio book.
Murder on the Orient Express ohdid you, I've been listening to
it all week.
Oh, nice Very, I've beenlistening to it all week.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Oh nice, Very cool.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I'm almost done with it.
It's short, it's 10 hours yeah.
So she was honored as a DameCommander of the Order of the
British Empire in 1971.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
So she is Dame Agatha Christie.
Yeah, yeah, just like JudiDench.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
So sadly she passed away in 1976.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Oh, okay, that's the year my brother was born.
Oh, okay, that's the year mybrother was born.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Oh, okay, yeah, so now in 1961, yes, she wrote the
Pale Horse.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Do you know who rides the pale horse?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
No, but I do have a synopsis straight from her
website.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Death.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
You know this.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
It's from the Bible.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
The pale horse.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, behold a pale, pale horse, and upon him is
death, or I don't know the exactwords oh, I don't know yeah oh,
anyway do you mean to throw youoff so?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
the synopsis on her website is yeah weird it's
different okay like just howit's written it's different.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Do you find it weird that she has a website?
I?
Speaker 1 (07:48):
did write down what the website was, let's.
I think it's called the home ofthe, the home of Agatha
Christie.
It's agathachristiecom.
So so the pale horse and here'sthe synopsis from her, from her
website, to understand thestrange goings on at the pale
horse in mark easterbrook, knewhe had to begin at the beginning
(08:11):
.
Well, that's usually where youstart, but where exactly was the
beginning?
Was it the savage blow to theback of father gorman's head?
jesus christ or was it when thepriest's assailant searched him
so roughly he tore the clergy?
Meant the clergyman's cassock?
Or could it have been thepriest's visit just minutes
(08:34):
before to a woman on herdeathbed?
Or was there a deepersignificance to the violent
squabble which mark isabrook hadhimself witnessed earlier?
That is wild that is a weirdsynopsis I'd say that's
extremely weird yeah, anyway, um, oh shit, there was more oh,
(08:54):
there's another page what, thewhat?
here's the end.
Okay, wherever the beginninglies, mark and his sidekick
ginger corrigan may soon havecause to wish they'd never found
it oh dear, sounds ominous,poor ginger so, um, spoiler
(09:17):
alert is coming.
Oh, so for all of those, Iguess I'm not gonna get this
audiobook yes, all of you whodon't want to know what the pale
horse is about, plug your ears,okay.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So I don't know, okay a thing with spoil alerts in me
.
This thing has been out for 64years I know if you haven't
gotten around to it.
I understand people are bornevery year, but that's on you,
not us so I don't know who doneit but.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
I do know what the murder weapon is poison what?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
how did you guess?
That this girl is point how?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
how did you guess that?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
well, you mentioned it, I know so we are talking
about jesus.
So we are talking about JesusChrist.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
We are talking about thallium specifically.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Thallium Mm-hmm With a T.
Yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
So thallium was discovered in 1861 by Sir
William Crookes.
It's a silvery white metal thattarnishes easily when exposed
to air.
Okay, it is highly toxic.
Sounds like it's historicallyused in rat and ant poisons oh
but it's now restricted and orbanned in many countries.
(10:34):
Sure, um, it was banned in theus in 1972, um in rodent poisons
, um, and it was banned in thepoint in the rat poisons, and
then they actually stoppedmanufacturing thallium in the US
in 1984.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
So you said it was discovered in 1861.
Is this like a metal, like anelement, kind of thing?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
It is a metal.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Or is it like a?
I don't know the properterminology, so I'm going to
butcher this Like is it on theperiodic table?
Right, is it there, or is it onthe periodic table?
Right, I don't.
Is it there, or is it like acompound or something or other?
Again, I don't know theterminologies, because I'm a,
well, I'm a buffoon, yeah, so itis.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
It is on the periodic table okay um, for whatever
reason, during my thalliumsearch it didn't come up with
that that's odd yeah, um, so thesymbol is T-I.
It's atomic number 81.
Ooh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I was in a band called Atomic Number Nine.
Yeah, yeah, based off theperiodic table, which is what?
I don't remember, I forget.
It's on my head C-O Carbon.
I don't think that's right.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
You don't think that's carbon?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
No, that doesn't sound right.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Cobalt.
Think that's right.
You don't think that's carbon.
No, I don't.
That doesn't sound right.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Cobalt, cobalt it is.
Is that what it is?
I think I've been lied to in myold band.
This also was like 25 years ago.
So is that what atomic number?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
nine is oh, that's a cool name for a band atomic
number nine, we had some prettygood, pretty good tunes yeah,
okay, anyway, we're off topichere well, we always are so are
we ever on topic?
Thallium thallium so, as I said, they the us bandit being used
in rat poisons in 1972, and thenthey officially stopped
manufacturing it in the us in in84 so the reason why I asked if
(12:21):
it was on the periodic tablebecause you just said they
stopped manufacturing it.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
So like did they just say no one can look for this
anymore?
Because if it's on the periodictable, it's an?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
element.
It is an element in the world.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yes, yeah, so it's like just don't go looking for
it, kind of thing now.
I mean, that's the only reasonwhy I asked that yeah, yeah, so
no, you know, even if it's aman-made, or you take this and
this and make a compound orwhatever again, I don't know the
terminology.
It's like well, yeah, just stopdoing that.
What do they do with the stuffthat's just out there, naturally
(12:52):
, I mean, could that?
If someone stumbled upon it?
Would they fucking die if theysomehow got into it, or
something.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
No, no, so it is.
It's found in trace amounts incopper, lead, zinc and other
sulfide ores, ores, ores, yeah,so they actually still get it
shipped in like imported intoday.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Why.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Because it is used in electronics.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Oh, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
So it's used in semiconductor materials.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Photoelectric cells and infrared detectors.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Thallium-201 is used as a radium pharmaceutical agent
in nuclear medicine scans,particularly for cardiac stress
tests.
That's above my pay grade.
Uh-huh, particularly forcardiac stress tests.
That's above my pay grade.
It's used to increase therefractive index and density of
(13:50):
glass.
That's odd.
It's used in low temperaturethermometers?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, because you can't use mercury anymore.
When you were a kid, did yourparents ever have one of those
ones with actual mercury?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Probably so.
Thallium is also tasteless andodorless.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
So you wouldn't even know if you ingest it.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
And it does not dissolve in water, which is kind
of weird.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Well, I mean, if it's technically a metal.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
It wouldn't so if you were to be poisoned with
thallium.
It can cause hair loss.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Oh dear Nerve damage, I must be poisoned.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Gastrointestinal problems, heart problems.
The health effects of thalliumare obviously dose dependent,
right, and there are threestages.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Okay, do tell and there are three stages.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Okay, Do tell.
So the gastrointestinal phasecan occur with large ingestions
or may be delayed 24 to 48 hourswith smaller ingestions.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
And then phase two is the neurological phase, and
it's two to five days or moreafter ingestion, although it can
occur as early as 12 hoursafter massive ingestion, oh geez
, yep.
And in acute toxicity, alopeciacan occur two to three weeks
after exposure.
So do you know what alopecia is?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Remind me, I always get it, it's hair loss.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Oh Death can also occur in severe cases due to
respiratory paralysis andfailure.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I feel like we're in one of those commercials you
always see and like don't takethallium if you're allergic to
thallium.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Right, yeah, no shit.
And then the lethal dose.
Like the minimum lethal dose is12 milligrams per kilogram of
body weight.
Okay, the treatment.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Oh, there is treatment for thallium there is
yeah there's an antidote, yeah,for this poison um.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
So for gastric decontamination, we're talking
about ingesting active charcoal,to like absorb the remaining
thallium okay, isn't that whatthey do with?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
uh, not overdose, is it?
People drink too much too oh,maybe maybe I don't remember, I
remember like alcohol poisoningsomething like that yeah and
then there's something calledprussian blue prussian blue.
Is it from prussia?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
it works by binding to the thallium in the
intestines and preventing itsreabsorption, and then promoting
its elimination into excrement,crap, the bowels, um there's
forced diuresis I thought you'regonna go a different way with
(16:52):
that word forced diarrhea.
Yeah, it's kind of similar,okay, so the forced diuresis is
increasing the urine output ohokay, we're going the other way
yep, yep, yep, and then thereare.
There is also hemodialysis orhemoperfusion okay which, in
severe cases, it's bloodpurification techniques to
(17:15):
remove thallium from thebloodstream.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I did not look into that, that's okay because I feel
like that's a way deeper divethan we need to go.
Yeah, exactly.
So let's just say, that's howyou do it.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So back to Agatha Christie's book, which was
published in 1961.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
What was the name of the book?
Again, I'm sorry, the PaleHorse.
Pale Horse, yes.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Okay, the heavy metal , thallium, was pretty obscure
but, she was a nurse and she wasin the pharmacy and she learned
all about this shit.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Sure, it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, and it's everywhere on earth, but it's in
just such tiny amounts that youreally can't stumble into like
a dangerous dose Right, thatmakes sense yeah.
So pretty cool for a murderweapon, though, right, well,
yeah, poison, yeah.
So again spoilers ahead.
The killer uses thallium toadminister slow progressive
(18:06):
poisoning to his victims.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Um.
This method is fairly crucialto the plot.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Because it makes the cause of death appear a little
bit more ambiguous and moredifficult to trace.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
So a little suspense, perhaps Suspense, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Dun, dun dun.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
In the book, the symptoms of thallium poisoning
was hair loss, nausea, nervedamage, and they were often
mistaken for other illnesses, ofcourse.
So it allowed the killer to goundetected for an extended
period of time.
Makes sense, yeah, okay.
So the novel doesn't quitespecify a single, precise method
(18:47):
of delivery.
Like this is how the killer gotit to the victim Um but the
implication is that the thalliumwas administered in small,
regular doses through food,essentially.
So, um the.
So Christie's detaileddescription of thallium was
(19:07):
pretty key to the book'ssuspense.
Um, it followed.
Detailed description ofThallium was pretty key to the
book's suspense.
It allowed the readers tofollow the victim's
deteriorating health andunderstanding the awfulness of
this crime.
Sure what Chrissy did notexpect was that by putting
Thallium in her story, she'd endup saving some lives.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Oh, really yes.
So people read the book and andlike I'm losing my hair.
You know Well um, Maybe I'vebeen slowly being poisoned for
the last 15 years.
I should really look into mypeople around me.
How did these people get savedby reading her book?
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Okay.
So she did get some seriousheat from the newspapers for
having written about Thallium.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah, people like the .
I mean you can go on anythingtoday and people give you heat.
It's like I saved a baby.
How could you save a baby?
What?
Speaker 1 (20:01):
So I will get to her saving lives, but first we're
going to talk about someone whotook a life or several Because
of this.
So they learned the, thetechnique so we're going to talk
about graham young graham youngokay, he had a fascination with
toxicology in his young yearsyoung.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Like what are we speaking?
Like five, six or like, yeah,like middle school oh boy I mean
so a little older than five orsix but yeah, okay, sorry, I
don't have kids um he, you werenot in middle school once.
You don't remember how old youwere I don't have a memory,
remember what?
Okay, so, despite hisintelligence, you probably don't
(20:42):
even remember poisoning me, sofuck off.
What'd you say exactly?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Exactly Jesus.
So he used his knowledge tosomehow trick his local
pharmacist into getting thallium, because he posed as an older
person somehow.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I think we need to find out if that pharmacist ever
lost his fucking license forbeing an idiot.
I know Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
So Graham Young started initiating experiments
at home.
Oh boy, he started introducingum atropine, which is belladonna
both those don't help me, butokay it's used to increase
someone's heart rate.
So they actually do useatropine in the medicine world.
(21:30):
So I hear through Gray'sanatomy, um, but Jesus Christ
actually that wasn't really.
Yes, it is.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Am I kidding?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I've I've seen it.
I've seen this show.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I keep going off on side things, so maybe I should
stop.
Okay, let's move on.
Yes, please do.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Okay.
So atropine is meant to likeincrease heart rate.
So someone has a really lowheart rate.
They will use atropine toincrease it.
Right, right, okay.
So he would put atropine in hissister's tea.
What?
A dick and in the the, thejelly, the jam did he get it
from the preservation room?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
it's full of delicious jams and jellies jams
and jellies.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
The atropine causes sister severe dizziness and
visual impairment and she washospitalized.
What a dick.
And then he had antimony, whichwas an alloy um which hardens
lead and it's also a flameretardant, I don't know.
Okay, but it resulted invomiting and abdominal cramps.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
But Mr Young wasn't thrilled with the slow
progression.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
So he administered.
Let's amp this shit up, yep.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
He administered a lethal dose of thallium to his
stepmother.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Wow.
Her death was initiallyattributed to natural causes
well, of course, because, again,we don't know his exact age.
You think he was around.
How old was he when he did that?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
by this time, I think he's.
I can't even tell you wasn'tpart of your research.
Okay, these are meant to belittle snippets for a short
episode.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
We're elongating it by side stories.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Okay, so he continued to poison his father with
antimony, eventually leading tohis hospitalization and also
increased suspicion on the kid.
I would hope so.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
His sister gets sick, his stepmother dies and now his
father's in the hospital.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
And he started poisoning kids at school.
Good Lord, what is wrong withthis?
Fuck yeah.
So it prompted a psychiatricevaluation and hospital stay at
the Rodmore Psychiatric Hospital.
And even within the hospital,somehow he could poison the
staff.
Nice, and even within thehospital, somehow he could
poison the staff.
(23:51):
I think he even oh, he wasimplicated in a fellow patient
suicide involving cyanide.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Jesus Christ, yeah, why are patients getting a hold
of fucking cyanide?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, but get this.
He was released only a coupleof years later for good behavior
.
What the fuck?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Don't worry, man, you've been good.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
So he got a job at Hadlands, which is a
photographic equipment company.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
This is after he got released.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
And he jumped right back in it by poisoning his
colleagues with various doses ofantimony and thallium, and he
started recording their symptomsin a diary, because why not
document it?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
well, because that's what dumb fucking criminals do?
Speaker 1 (24:36):
they leave a paper trail yep, he poisoned eight
people and two of them died wow,so he's killed three people at
this time well more, because heum well assisted suicide's a
four.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Wow.
So the victims presented withsymptoms ranging from
hallucinations, blindness,alopecia, and it baffled 43
different physicians whoattributed their illnesses to
unrelated conditions.
Wow, not at all what they thinkit conditions.
Wow, not at all what they thinkit was Right.
(25:12):
So Young was eventuallycaptured.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Good.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Because he had a lot of toxicological.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
That is a hard word to say.
I'm glad I didn't have to sayit Toxicological.
Toxicological, toxicological.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Toxicological, toxicological.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Anyways, let's move on.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
He had a lot of this knowledge during a workplace
meeting and it was concerning tothe employees because they were
also experiencing symptoms.
Oh Okay, so they finallysearched his residence and,
hello, they found his diary.
Wow see that's.
That's why you don't keep adiary yeah, yeah, um, so he
(26:02):
actually said no, the diary wasfor a novel that I'm writing
okay, yeah, it just happens tocoincide with all the people you
fucked around with yep, so hewas.
He was sentenced to lifeimprisonment.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So the newspapers jumped on Christy because he
wouldn't have done this if itwasn't for you.
Because of the knowledge ofwhat she put in her books.
Yeah, but he clearly had abetter understanding than she
even did, potentially.
I mean, from just being anoutsider looking on in on this,
(26:32):
I mean he clearly heexperimented other shit too.
Yeah, so are they gonna go findother people who had the other
things and be like you suck too?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
yeah, so I mean fuck off man he even said he never
read the book right.
So there's not a lot of proofthat Christie was connected to
this in any type of way.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
But one of the Scotland Yard doctors.
That was like reading this case.
He recognized the thalliumpoisoning before it was
introduced as thallium poisoningbecause he read the pale horse.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
That's pretty crazy, that's wild, that you know they
could help solve a crimebasically.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, okay.
So now we're going to talkabout george triple triple.
Yeah, tree paul, tree paul,triple triple it's, I think it's
triple, but it's t-r-e-p-a-l oh, okay triple triple george
triple triple and his wife yeah,in Florida during the early
1980s, and then a couple namedParalyn and Peggy Carr moved
(27:37):
next door to them in 1988.
Travis Carr, which is Paralyn'sson, and Dwayne Dubberly,
peggy's son, also lived there.
That same year Paralynrenovated his garage into an
apartment, so his daughtersDelina Shriver and Tammy Reed
(28:00):
and his granddaughter Casey Belllived.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Wow, that's a lot of names.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
A lot of people in the house.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I'm not going to remember any of them and you
don't need to.
Good.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
But George and the cars were involved in a number
of altercations, of course,including one incident in which
triple threatened to kill one ofcar's children see, that's.
That's usually not a good gameplan, okay um the cars also
received an unsigned letterthreatening harm to their family
(28:31):
if they did not leave floridagood lord.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I like how it's unsigned but who could that have
come from?
Speaker 1 (28:38):
okay, so I told you they.
They moved here in 1988, right?
Yes, correct the same year theybuilt the garage yes october of
1988, so not very long after.
No, yeah peggy Carr began tosuffer from a mysterious illness
.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Oh weird.
Did she start losing her hair?
Did she start having gutproblems?
Speaker 1 (28:55):
She was admitted to the hospital and remained there
for several days, okay, and thenshe was discharged.
Like they have no informationRight, like they've got nothing,
and she was getting better inthe hospital, sure.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
So after she wasn't getting thallium.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
After the discharge, peggy peggy's condition worsened
and then she was readmitted.
The kids, travis carr and doingdoubly, also had similar
symptoms and they were sent tothe hospital.
Okay, mr doctor, mr doctor, mrdoctor, dr hostler, doctor, mr.
Doctor, mr Doctor, dr Hostler,who was treating them, suspected
(29:32):
thallium poisoning based on thesymptoms.
Right Within one day, thalliumpoisoning was confirmed.
Oh wow yeah.
Peggy Kars conditioned worseand she fell into a coma.
Oh Okay, and she died on lifesupport.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Okay, okay.
Well, did she die on lifesupport or did they pull life
support to have her die?
It was disconnected.
Yeah, it was disconnected.
I'm just joking around.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Travis Carr and Dwayne Dubberly remained in the
hospital and they were treatedfor thallium poisoning.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Further testing revealed the presence of
thallium in other family members.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Mm-hmm Including his little grandchildren.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
That's sad.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I know, in November of 1989, so Peggy actually died
in March of 89.
Oh, okay, and then, in Novemberof 89, officials started
collecting samples from the Carrhousehold in an attempt to
figure out where this thalliumwas happening.
Sure, and they tested theresidual residual residue in
(30:33):
several areas coca-cola bottlesreally did george young work
there.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
No, I'm sorry anyways gram, gram, young god damn it
see, I knew I'd mess that up umso thallium was detected in
these coke bottles so somehow itwas getting into these coke
bottles okay the lot numbers ofthe coke bottles allowed police
to trace when and where thebottles were produced.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Sure, and officials determined that it was that it
was impossible for eight bottlescontaining thallium to end up
all being packaged together.
Well, right.
That seems extremely unlikelyand coca-cola officials claimed
that they had not received anyother reports of poisoning or
threats related to tamperingwith their product before Sure
(31:19):
In June of 19.
Oh sorry, I was like the year Ihave written down as 1988.
And I was like I thought wewere at 89, but in June of 88,
that's when they received thethreatening letter.
Okay, and that's what made themstart to talk to Mr Trip all.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Okay, so Tripol Right .
Okay, so Tripol claimed toaccompany his wife to the office
every day, but what the policefound out was that he either
stayed home, he lied.
He either stayed home or hewent on his own to the office.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So he was alone, whereas he was kind of telling
him I'm with my wife so Icouldn't be me.
I'm with somebody, yeah yeah,so triple had the opportunity
then to enter the car's house,because they didn't lock their
doors right it was the 80s timeswere wild uh-huh and triple.
Had worked as a chemist in anamphetamine laboratory.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Oh dear.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
And thallium is a byproduct of amphetamine
production.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Oh, is it really Apparently?
Huh, who knew?
Not me, not me.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
So, in order to further investigate George
Treppel, special agent SusanGorek went undercover.
Oh, she attended a Mensa murderweekend.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Mensa murder weekend.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
He is so smart he's in the Mensa group.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
What is that again?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Super high IQ.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
That's what I thought .
I know of it.
I just I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah.
So she went to the Mensa murderweekend where Trepol's wife
organized this like fun littlemurder mystery party right so
trepol wrote the pamphlet fortheir weekend describing writing
a threatening note and thenpoisoning the recipient of the
note way to implicate yourself,all right so during this weekend
(33:16):
gorick had contact with trepoland learned that he was selling
his house, oh, and he was movingsomewhere else in Florida.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
And so Gorick arranged to rent his house after
him and his wife moved.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
And a search team came in and they actually found
bottles containing thallium.
Like what a dumbass you'removing and you're not cleaning
up after yourself well, youdeserve to get caught, you
fucking moron so after thediscovery treple was charged
with seven counts of poisoningand murder, though right,
because he what's her name?
(33:55):
Died oh, I, I will get to that.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yes, yes, yes, yes yes.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
No, that's okay.
So another search of his newhome in April turned up
chemistry books, equipment andinformation about poisons, and
they found a bottle cappingmachine.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
So he could pop the.
Coca-cola and put the stuff inand then recap it, so it looks
like it's brand spanking new.
Yep wow.
That's why I don't drink cokeand guess what else they found
cocaine.
Oh wait, that was old days ofcoke they found agatha
christie's novel the pale horsewow, ain't that some shit treble
(34:37):
was found guilty on one countof first degree murder.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Six counts of attempted first degree murder.
Wow, seven counts of poisoningfood or water.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
And one count of consumer product tampering.
Wow, all of his appeals havebeen denied Good, including his
last one, which was in 2012.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
And he is currently on death row in.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Floridaida at 76 years old.
I'm not sad about that.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
What a dick okay, let's talk about something
positive.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
We're gonna whoa, we don't do that.
On the history of buffoons in1977 there was another case.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
A 19 month old girl was flown from Qatar to a
hospital in London.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
And she was super sick.
No one knew why and she wasgetting worse.
Doctors are stumped Right.
A nurse at the hospital, missMarsha Matland, was doing her
rounds and she just happened tohave read the pale horse.
Wow, she noticed the baby.
Symptoms were eerily similar towhat christie described for
(35:43):
thallium poisoning.
The hospital could not test forthallium poisoning so they
actually had to send test resultor samples to scotland yard
okay but they they were able todetermine sure okay.
So it turns out, the girlaccidentally swallowed
insecticide with thallium in it,oh boy, but she got the right
treatment and made a fullrecovery, nice.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
So the guy who wrote the report in the medical
journal actually thanked Christyfor bringing thallium to
everyone's attention and MarshaMatlin for being a well-read
nurse.
So basically Agatha Christie,queen of crime, was kind of a
life-saving hero.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I mean, yeah, she in a roundabout way and then she
got attacked for it.
But you know, those hatersgoing to hate.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
So yeah, I mean, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
It's a fiction, it's a novel, you know it's weird
that people um, it's weird thatpeople okay, so like Stephen
King, look at all the stuff he'swritten.
So if I go and take somebodyand chain them up to a bed and
break their legs with a boardand a sledgehammer, yeah, I mean
, are people going to beoutraged at Stephen King?
Probably not, I know, which isjust weird.
(36:53):
So it's like, why be outragedat her Different times?
Speaker 1 (36:56):
but Did you hear that there's a Dexter killer?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Like copying what the show does.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Nope, no, I have not yep, I listen to murder shows I
know um, I've never.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Did you ever watch that show?
I never watched it I watched.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Um, yeah, I think it was almost to the last season
that I I ended up stoppingbefore it ended.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Because there's a new one out.
There is.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
And maybe even a prequel, I don't know Something?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
yeah, I guess I don't know.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Nathan has seen the original all the way through and
he said the last season kind ofjumped the shark so I didn't
even watch it.
Yeah, that's too bad.
But yeah, that was AgathaChristie's.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
The Pale Horse and thallium poisoning is weird that
a book can help so much, eventhough it got some shit at one
point.
But uh, go, agatha christie,yeah and uh, and I and I love
that I I found an audiobook thatI could listen to, get from the
library and listen to.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, no, no.
I I wanted obviously the palehorse because I was going to
read that, but I didn't have umtime to go actually get it, get
the yeah, physical form of thebook and read it, and this one
was the audiobook.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
It's funny because I know how we title these episodes
.
We usually just say Origin ofWeird, and then what it is.
This one has had so many othertitles to it, and it's funny
because I probably still wouldhave landed on Behold a Pale
Horse.
But anyways, do you notremember that from the Bible?
No Well, I suppose, All right,buffoons.
(38:26):
That's it for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Buckle up, because we've got another historical
adventure waiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
explore hit us up on socialmedia.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
We're history buffoons podcast on youtube x,
instagram and facebook.
You can also email us athistory buffoons podcast at
gmailcom.
We are bradley and kate.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Music by cory acres follow us wherever you get your
podcasts and turn thosenotifications on to stay in the
loop until next time, staycurious and don't forget to rate
and review us.
Remember, the buffoonery neverstops.
oh, hey there oh, hey there how are you?
Oh, it came from my throatsounds like I'm better than you.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
We're the History Buffoons.
Yes, I am Bradley, I am Kate,and this is an origin of weird.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Good job.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The enthusiasm exuding from you is just
mind-blowing.
Did you ever watch SaturdayNight Live at all?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, a little bit Back in the day at least no, not
really bit back in the day.
At least no, not really notback in the day.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So uh, I'm not talking like the 80s, I'm
talking more like 90s, early2000 anyways no, not so much I
forget the two actresses name,but, uh, or comedians, whatever,
but they did the talk showradio, uh, where they talk all
like you know molly shannon yesand anna guest steyer.
Yeah, that's, that's, right,yeah that's what you sound like
(01:07):
today.
Just wanted to let you knowthat shall I try?
It.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I think you should welcome back to another episode
of the origin of weird.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, this is how I'm gonna talk, while you talk like
that that's pretty good thoughthough I mean it wasn't bad.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, I remember that yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
One of the best episodes was the sweaty balls.
Sweaty balls, yeah, with AlecBaldwin, alec Baldwin, that's
right, yep, I have seen that oneSweaty balls Sweaty balls.
Tell me more about your sweatyballs, yep, like meatballs or
essentially or something.
Yeah, it was meatballs, orsomething like that.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
And his last name was Shwetty.
Tell me about your.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Shwetty balls.
Such a great, such a greatepisode of that, yeah, but
anyways, what do you got for ustoday on the origin of weird?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Okay, so we are going to talk about a couple of
things.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Okay, jesus Christ, so more than just.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Shwetty ballsdy balls .
Um, we're gonna talk a littlebit about agatha christie.
Oh yeah, I know her well.
You are old enough, youprobably no, we grew up together
, yeah, yeah yeah, um, and weare going to talk about a book
that she wrote okay and we'regoing to talk about a poison oh
poison yeah it's a woman'sweapon.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I hear that's what they say at least yeah so agatha
christie was born.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Agatha mary clarissa miller so many names.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I know those english, I tell you she was born in 1890
.
Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, we go wayback yeah, in england, as you
mentioned.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, um, she was educated at home and she was
pretty much a talent right atthe beginning.
Yeah, yeah, wow, something herand I don't have in common
during world war one, shevolunteered as a nurse with the
voluntary aid detachment okayand they called it the vad.
(03:04):
So everywhere I read vad I was.
Like I was gonna call it the bad, yeah, yeah um, so she saw a
lot of medical care, um, shetreated a lot of wounded
soldiers firsthand.
You know everything like thatright then she moved on to a
hospital dispensary so like ahospital that sold weed more,
(03:24):
more like a pharmacy oh, okay,yeah, I don't know.
Just dispensaries are everywherethese days, so that's fair
that's fair yeah, um, I guessI'm using this interchangeably
now so, but she gained a lot ofknowledge of drugs and most
notably poisons, right.
So it was quite clear that herexperience in the war and in the
(03:53):
pharmacy, that knowledgetranslated pretty well into her
novels.
Okay fair enough.
Yeah, so her career began withthe book the Mysterious Affair
at Stiles, and that was in 1920.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Okay, so she was 30 at this time.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
That was her first published book.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
That was her first published book Okay and the
Mysterious Affairs at Stiles.
Publication introduced HerculePirol.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Hercule.
Hercule, yeah, I know, it'ssuch a weird name.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It's very from um hercule puerol I just call him
kenneth brenna the movie yes,because he's the one who's most
recently played him.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I'm sure there's been other movie adaptations for it.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, he was great.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I thought he was awesome as that character.
I'm a big fan of KennethBranagh as a director and an
actor, though.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Oh, I didn't know he was a director too.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
He directed the Thor movie.
No, the first one, sweet.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
What a talented man.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
More than that.
And then I think he wastechnically if I the director on
those Agatha Christie movies.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I believe Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
If I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So we're talking about the movie Murder on the
Orient Express.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And Death on the Nile .
Speaker 1 (05:12):
And I have not yet seen that one.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, no, that's on a list of mine to show you.
And then there was a morerecent one that I am drawing a
blank on the name of it Same?
Yeah, I don't recall I thinkthat was a straight streaming
service.
One, oh, okay.
The other two came out in thetheater, okay, but yeah, anyways
.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Okay, so she had about 66 detective novels, wow,
and 14 short story collectionsas well.
Holy crap, that's quite a lot.
And she is titled as the queenof crime.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Oh, who's the king?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Probably.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Sherlock Holmes.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, or at least Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, yeah, yeah,
yeah, all right, let's go withthat.
Let's just go with that.
Yeah, I mean, that's fact now.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
They're both from England, so, king, let's go with
that.
Let's just go with that.
Yeah, I mean, that's fact now.
They're both from England, soKing Queen makes more sense over
there than here.
100%, so 100%.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Okay, so I actually did mention Murder on the Orient
Express right here, but sothat's one of our more popular
books, as well as Death on theNile.
And there was another reallypopular one, and I didn't write
it down because I'm an idiot,okay, and there was another
really popular one and I didn'twrite it down because I'm an
idiot.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Okay, I'm drawing a blank on some of her other books
.
I know of her books.
I don't know how many I'veactually read.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I've only read a couple.
I think I've read one or two,but Because of the story, I
actually borrowed the audio book.
Murder on the Orient Express ohdid you, I've been listening to
it all week.
Oh, nice Very, I've beenlistening to it all week.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Oh nice, Very cool.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I'm almost done with it.
It's short, it's 10 hours yeah.
So she was honored as a DameCommander of the Order of the
British Empire in 1971.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
So she is Dame Agatha Christie.
Yeah, yeah, just like JudiDench.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
So sadly she passed away in 1976.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Oh, okay, that's the year my brother was born.
Oh, okay, that's the year mybrother was born.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Oh, okay, yeah, so now in 1961, yes, she wrote the
Pale Horse.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Do you know who rides the pale horse?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
No, but I do have a synopsis straight from her
website.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Death.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
You know this.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
It's from the Bible.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
The pale horse.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, behold a pale, pale horse, and upon him is
death, or I don't know the exactwords oh, I don't know yeah oh,
anyway do you mean to throw youoff so?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
the synopsis on her website is yeah weird it's
different okay like just howit's written it's different.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Do you find it weird that she has a website?
I?
Speaker 1 (07:48):
did write down what the website was, let's.
I think it's called the home ofthe, the home of Agatha
Christie.
It's agathachristiecom.
So so the pale horse and here'sthe synopsis from her, from her
website, to understand thestrange goings on at the pale
horse in mark easterbrook, knewhe had to begin at the beginning
(08:11):
.
Well, that's usually where youstart, but where exactly was the
beginning?
Was it the savage blow to theback of father gorman's head?
jesus christ or was it when thepriest's assailant searched him
so roughly he tore the clergy?
Meant the clergyman's cassock?
Or could it have been thepriest's visit just minutes
(08:34):
before to a woman on herdeathbed?
Or was there a deepersignificance to the violent
squabble which mark isabrook hadhimself witnessed earlier?
That is wild that is a weirdsynopsis I'd say that's
extremely weird yeah, anyway, um, oh shit, there was more oh,
(08:54):
there's another page what, thewhat?
here's the end.
Okay, wherever the beginninglies, mark and his sidekick
ginger corrigan may soon havecause to wish they'd never found
it oh dear, sounds ominous,poor ginger so, um, spoiler
(09:17):
alert is coming.
Oh, so for all of those, Iguess I'm not gonna get this
audiobook yes, all of you whodon't want to know what the pale
horse is about, plug your ears,okay.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So I don't know, okay a thing with spoil alerts in me
.
This thing has been out for 64years I know if you haven't
gotten around to it.
I understand people are bornevery year, but that's on you,
not us so I don't know who doneit but.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
I do know what the murder weapon is poison what?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
how did you guess?
That this girl is point how?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
how did you guess that?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
well, you mentioned it, I know so we are talking
about jesus.
So we are talking about JesusChrist.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
We are talking about thallium specifically.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Thallium Mm-hmm With a T.
Yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
So thallium was discovered in 1861 by Sir
William Crookes.
It's a silvery white metal thattarnishes easily when exposed
to air.
Okay, it is highly toxic.
Sounds like it's historicallyused in rat and ant poisons oh
but it's now restricted and orbanned in many countries.
(10:34):
Sure, um, it was banned in theus in 1972, um in rodent poisons
, um, and it was banned in thepoint in the rat poisons, and
then they actually stoppedmanufacturing thallium in the US
in 1984.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
So you said it was discovered in 1861.
Is this like a metal, like anelement, kind of thing?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
It is a metal.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Or is it like a?
I don't know the properterminology, so I'm going to
butcher this Like is it on theperiodic table?
Right, is it there, or is it onthe periodic table?
Right, I don't.
Is it there, or is it like acompound or something or other?
Again, I don't know theterminologies, because I'm a,
well, I'm a buffoon, yeah, so itis.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
It is on the periodic table okay um, for whatever
reason, during my thalliumsearch it didn't come up with
that that's odd yeah, um, so thesymbol is T-I.
It's atomic number 81.
Ooh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I was in a band called Atomic Number Nine.
Yeah, yeah, based off theperiodic table, which is what?
I don't remember, I forget.
It's on my head C-O Carbon.
I don't think that's right.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
You don't think that's carbon?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
No, that doesn't sound right.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Cobalt.
Think that's right.
You don't think that's carbon.
No, I don't.
That doesn't sound right.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Cobalt, cobalt it is.
Is that what it is?
I think I've been lied to in myold band.
This also was like 25 years ago.
So is that what atomic number?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
nine is oh, that's a cool name for a band atomic
number nine, we had some prettygood, pretty good tunes yeah,
okay, anyway, we're off topichere well, we always are so are
we ever on topic?
Thallium thallium so, as I said, they the us bandit being used
in rat poisons in 1972, and thenthey officially stopped
manufacturing it in the us in in84 so the reason why I asked if
(12:21):
it was on the periodic tablebecause you just said they
stopped manufacturing it.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
So like did they just say no one can look for this
anymore?
Because if it's on the periodictable, it's an?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
element.
It is an element in the world.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yes, yeah, so it's like just don't go looking for
it, kind of thing now.
I mean, that's the only reasonwhy I asked that yeah, yeah, so
no, you know, even if it's aman-made, or you take this and
this and make a compound orwhatever again, I don't know the
terminology.
It's like well, yeah, just stopdoing that.
What do they do with the stuffthat's just out there, naturally
(12:52):
, I mean, could that?
If someone stumbled upon it?
Would they fucking die if theysomehow got into it, or
something.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
No, no, so it is.
It's found in trace amounts incopper, lead, zinc and other
sulfide ores, ores, ores, yeah,so they actually still get it
shipped in like imported intoday.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Why.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Because it is used in electronics.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Oh, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
So it's used in semiconductor materials.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Photoelectric cells and infrared detectors.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Thallium-201 is used as a radium pharmaceutical agent
in nuclear medicine scans,particularly for cardiac stress
tests.
That's above my pay grade.
Uh-huh, particularly forcardiac stress tests.
That's above my pay grade.
It's used to increase therefractive index and density of
(13:50):
glass.
That's odd.
It's used in low temperaturethermometers?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, because you can't use mercury anymore.
When you were a kid, did yourparents ever have one of those
ones with actual mercury?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Probably so.
Thallium is also tasteless andodorless.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
So you wouldn't even know if you ingest it.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
And it does not dissolve in water, which is kind
of weird.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Well, I mean, if it's technically a metal.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
It wouldn't so if you were to be poisoned with
thallium.
It can cause hair loss.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Oh dear Nerve damage, I must be poisoned.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Gastrointestinal problems, heart problems.
The health effects of thalliumare obviously dose dependent,
right, and there are threestages.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Okay, do tell and there are three stages.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Okay, Do tell.
So the gastrointestinal phasecan occur with large ingestions
or may be delayed 24 to 48 hourswith smaller ingestions.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
And then phase two is the neurological phase, and
it's two to five days or moreafter ingestion, although it can
occur as early as 12 hoursafter massive ingestion, oh geez
, yep.
And in acute toxicity, alopeciacan occur two to three weeks
after exposure.
So do you know what alopecia is?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Remind me, I always get it, it's hair loss.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Oh Death can also occur in severe cases due to
respiratory paralysis andfailure.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I feel like we're in one of those commercials you
always see and like don't takethallium if you're allergic to
thallium.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Right, yeah, no shit.
And then the lethal dose.
Like the minimum lethal dose is12 milligrams per kilogram of
body weight.
Okay, the treatment.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Oh, there is treatment for thallium there is
yeah there's an antidote, yeah,for this poison um.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
So for gastric decontamination, we're talking
about ingesting active charcoal,to like absorb the remaining
thallium okay, isn't that whatthey do with?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
uh, not overdose, is it?
People drink too much too oh,maybe maybe I don't remember, I
remember like alcohol poisoningsomething like that yeah and
then there's something calledprussian blue prussian blue.
Is it from prussia?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
it works by binding to the thallium in the
intestines and preventing itsreabsorption, and then promoting
its elimination into excrement,crap, the bowels, um there's
forced diuresis I thought you'regonna go a different way with
(16:52):
that word forced diarrhea.
Yeah, it's kind of similar,okay, so the forced diuresis is
increasing the urine output ohokay, we're going the other way
yep, yep, yep, and then thereare.
There is also hemodialysis orhemoperfusion okay which, in
severe cases, it's bloodpurification techniques to
(17:15):
remove thallium from thebloodstream.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I did not look into that, that's okay because I feel
like that's a way deeper divethan we need to go.
Yeah, exactly.
So let's just say, that's howyou do it.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So back to Agatha Christie's book, which was
published in 1961.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
What was the name of the book?
Again, I'm sorry, the PaleHorse.
Pale Horse, yes.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Okay, the heavy metal , thallium, was pretty obscure
but, she was a nurse and she wasin the pharmacy and she learned
all about this shit.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Sure, it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, and it's everywhere on earth, but it's in
just such tiny amounts that youreally can't stumble into like
a dangerous dose Right, thatmakes sense yeah.
So pretty cool for a murderweapon, though, right, well,
yeah, poison, yeah.
So again spoilers ahead.
The killer uses thallium toadminister slow progressive
(18:06):
poisoning to his victims.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Um.
This method is fairly crucialto the plot.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Because it makes the cause of death appear a little
bit more ambiguous and moredifficult to trace.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
So a little suspense, perhaps Suspense, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Dun, dun dun.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
In the book, the symptoms of thallium poisoning
was hair loss, nausea, nervedamage, and they were often
mistaken for other illnesses, ofcourse.
So it allowed the killer to goundetected for an extended
period of time.
Makes sense, yeah, okay.
So the novel doesn't quitespecify a single, precise method
(18:47):
of delivery.
Like this is how the killer gotit to the victim Um but the
implication is that the thalliumwas administered in small,
regular doses through food,essentially.
So, um the.
So Christie's detaileddescription of thallium was
(19:07):
pretty key to the book'ssuspense.
Um, it followed.
Detailed description ofThallium was pretty key to the
book's suspense.
It allowed the readers tofollow the victim's
deteriorating health andunderstanding the awfulness of
this crime.
Sure what Chrissy did notexpect was that by putting
Thallium in her story, she'd endup saving some lives.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Oh, really yes.
So people read the book and andlike I'm losing my hair.
You know Well um, Maybe I'vebeen slowly being poisoned for
the last 15 years.
I should really look into mypeople around me.
How did these people get savedby reading her book?
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Okay.
So she did get some seriousheat from the newspapers for
having written about Thallium.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah, people like the .
I mean you can go on anythingtoday and people give you heat.
It's like I saved a baby.
How could you save a baby?
What?
Speaker 1 (20:01):
So I will get to her saving lives, but first we're
going to talk about someone whotook a life or several Because
of this.
So they learned the, thetechnique so we're going to talk
about graham young graham youngokay, he had a fascination with
toxicology in his young yearsyoung.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Like what are we speaking?
Like five, six or like, yeah,like middle school oh boy I mean
so a little older than five orsix but yeah, okay, sorry, I
don't have kids um he, you werenot in middle school once.
You don't remember how old youwere I don't have a memory,
remember what?
Okay, so, despite hisintelligence, you probably don't
(20:42):
even remember poisoning me, sofuck off.
What'd you say exactly?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Exactly Jesus.
So he used his knowledge tosomehow trick his local
pharmacist into getting thallium, because he posed as an older
person somehow.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I think we need to find out if that pharmacist ever
lost his fucking license forbeing an idiot.
I know Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
So Graham Young started initiating experiments
at home.
Oh boy, he started introducingum atropine, which is belladonna
both those don't help me, butokay it's used to increase
someone's heart rate.
So they actually do useatropine in the medicine world.
(21:30):
So I hear through Gray'sanatomy, um, but Jesus Christ
actually that wasn't really.
Yes, it is.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Am I kidding?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I've I've seen it.
I've seen this show.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I keep going off on side things, so maybe I should
stop.
Okay, let's move on.
Yes, please do.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Okay.
So atropine is meant to likeincrease heart rate.
So someone has a really lowheart rate.
They will use atropine toincrease it.
Right, right, okay.
So he would put atropine in hissister's tea.
What?
A dick and in the the, thejelly, the jam did he get it
from the preservation room?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
it's full of delicious jams and jellies jams
and jellies.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
The atropine causes sister severe dizziness and
visual impairment and she washospitalized.
What a dick.
And then he had antimony, whichwas an alloy um which hardens
lead and it's also a flameretardant, I don't know.
Okay, but it resulted invomiting and abdominal cramps.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
But Mr Young wasn't thrilled with the slow
progression.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
So he administered.
Let's amp this shit up, yep.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
He administered a lethal dose of thallium to his
stepmother.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Wow.
Her death was initiallyattributed to natural causes
well, of course, because, again,we don't know his exact age.
You think he was around.
How old was he when he did that?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
by this time, I think he's.
I can't even tell you wasn'tpart of your research.
Okay, these are meant to belittle snippets for a short
episode.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
We're elongating it by side stories.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Okay, so he continued to poison his father with
antimony, eventually leading tohis hospitalization and also
increased suspicion on the kid.
I would hope so.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
His sister gets sick, his stepmother dies and now his
father's in the hospital.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
And he started poisoning kids at school.
Good Lord, what is wrong withthis?
Fuck yeah.
So it prompted a psychiatricevaluation and hospital stay at
the Rodmore Psychiatric Hospital.
And even within the hospital,somehow he could poison the
staff.
Nice, and even within thehospital, somehow he could
poison the staff.
(23:51):
I think he even oh, he wasimplicated in a fellow patient
suicide involving cyanide.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Jesus Christ, yeah, why are patients getting a hold
of fucking cyanide?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, but get this.
He was released only a coupleof years later for good behavior
.
What the fuck?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Don't worry, man, you've been good.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
So he got a job at Hadlands, which is a
photographic equipment company.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
This is after he got released.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
And he jumped right back in it by poisoning his
colleagues with various doses ofantimony and thallium, and he
started recording their symptomsin a diary, because why not
document it?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
well, because that's what dumb fucking criminals do?
Speaker 1 (24:36):
they leave a paper trail yep, he poisoned eight
people and two of them died wow,so he's killed three people at
this time well more, because heum well assisted suicide's a
four.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Wow.
So the victims presented withsymptoms ranging from
hallucinations, blindness,alopecia, and it baffled 43
different physicians whoattributed their illnesses to
unrelated conditions.
Wow, not at all what they thinkit conditions.
Wow, not at all what they thinkit was Right.
(25:12):
So Young was eventuallycaptured.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Good.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Because he had a lot of toxicological.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
That is a hard word to say.
I'm glad I didn't have to sayit Toxicological.
Toxicological, toxicological.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Toxicological, toxicological.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Anyways, let's move on.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
He had a lot of this knowledge during a workplace
meeting and it was concerning tothe employees because they were
also experiencing symptoms.
Oh Okay, so they finallysearched his residence and,
hello, they found his diary.
Wow see that's.
That's why you don't keep adiary yeah, yeah, um, so he
(26:02):
actually said no, the diary wasfor a novel that I'm writing
okay, yeah, it just happens tocoincide with all the people you
fucked around with yep, so hewas.
He was sentenced to lifeimprisonment.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So the newspapers jumped on Christy because he
wouldn't have done this if itwasn't for you.
Because of the knowledge ofwhat she put in her books.
Yeah, but he clearly had abetter understanding than she
even did, potentially.
I mean, from just being anoutsider looking on in on this,
(26:32):
I mean he clearly heexperimented other shit too.
Yeah, so are they gonna go findother people who had the other
things and be like you suck too?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
yeah, so I mean fuck off man he even said he never
read the book right.
So there's not a lot of proofthat Christie was connected to
this in any type of way.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
But one of the Scotland Yard doctors.
That was like reading this case.
He recognized the thalliumpoisoning before it was
introduced as thallium poisoningbecause he read the pale horse.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
That's pretty crazy, that's wild, that you know they
could help solve a crimebasically.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, okay.
So now we're going to talkabout george triple triple.
Yeah, tree paul, tree paul,triple triple it's, I think it's
triple, but it's t-r-e-p-a-l oh, okay triple triple george
triple triple and his wife yeah,in Florida during the early
1980s, and then a couple namedParalyn and Peggy Carr moved
(27:37):
next door to them in 1988.
Travis Carr, which is Paralyn'sson, and Dwayne Dubberly,
peggy's son, also lived there.
That same year Paralynrenovated his garage into an
apartment, so his daughtersDelina Shriver and Tammy Reed
(28:00):
and his granddaughter Casey Belllived.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Wow, that's a lot of names.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
A lot of people in the house.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I'm not going to remember any of them and you
don't need to.
Good.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
But George and the cars were involved in a number
of altercations, of course,including one incident in which
triple threatened to kill one ofcar's children see, that's.
That's usually not a good gameplan, okay um the cars also
received an unsigned letterthreatening harm to their family
(28:31):
if they did not leave floridagood lord.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I like how it's unsigned but who could that have
come from?
Speaker 1 (28:38):
okay, so I told you they.
They moved here in 1988, right?
Yes, correct the same year theybuilt the garage yes october of
1988, so not very long after.
No, yeah peggy Carr began tosuffer from a mysterious illness
.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Oh weird.
Did she start losing her hair?
Did she start having gutproblems?
Speaker 1 (28:55):
She was admitted to the hospital and remained there
for several days, okay, and thenshe was discharged.
Like they have no informationRight, like they've got nothing,
and she was getting better inthe hospital, sure.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
So after she wasn't getting thallium.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
After the discharge, peggy peggy's condition worsened
and then she was readmitted.
The kids, travis carr and doingdoubly, also had similar
symptoms and they were sent tothe hospital.
Okay, mr doctor, mr doctor, mrdoctor, dr hostler, doctor, mr.
Doctor, mr Doctor, dr Hostler,who was treating them, suspected
(29:32):
thallium poisoning based on thesymptoms.
Right Within one day, thalliumpoisoning was confirmed.
Oh wow yeah.
Peggy Kars conditioned worseand she fell into a coma.
Oh Okay, and she died on lifesupport.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Okay, okay.
Well, did she die on lifesupport or did they pull life
support to have her die?
It was disconnected.
Yeah, it was disconnected.
I'm just joking around.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Travis Carr and Dwayne Dubberly remained in the
hospital and they were treatedfor thallium poisoning.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Further testing revealed the presence of
thallium in other family members.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Mm-hmm Including his little grandchildren.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
That's sad.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I know, in November of 1989, so Peggy actually died
in March of 89.
Oh, okay, and then, in Novemberof 89, officials started
collecting samples from the Carrhousehold in an attempt to
figure out where this thalliumwas happening.
Sure, and they tested theresidual residual residue in
(30:33):
several areas coca-cola bottlesreally did george young work
there.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
No, I'm sorry anyways gram, gram, young god damn it
see, I knew I'd mess that up umso thallium was detected in
these coke bottles so somehow itwas getting into these coke
bottles okay the lot numbers ofthe coke bottles allowed police
to trace when and where thebottles were produced.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Sure, and officials determined that it was that it
was impossible for eight bottlescontaining thallium to end up
all being packaged together.
Well, right.
That seems extremely unlikelyand coca-cola officials claimed
that they had not received anyother reports of poisoning or
threats related to tamperingwith their product before Sure
(31:19):
In June of 19.
Oh sorry, I was like the year Ihave written down as 1988.
And I was like I thought wewere at 89, but in June of 88,
that's when they received thethreatening letter.
Okay, and that's what made themstart to talk to Mr Trip all.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Okay, so Tripol Right .
Okay, so Tripol claimed toaccompany his wife to the office
every day, but what the policefound out was that he either
stayed home, he lied.
He either stayed home or hewent on his own to the office.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So he was alone, whereas he was kind of telling
him I'm with my wife so Icouldn't be me.
I'm with somebody, yeah yeah,so triple had the opportunity
then to enter the car's house,because they didn't lock their
doors right it was the 80s timeswere wild uh-huh and triple.
Had worked as a chemist in anamphetamine laboratory.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Oh dear.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
And thallium is a byproduct of amphetamine
production.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Oh, is it really Apparently?
Huh, who knew?
Not me, not me.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
So, in order to further investigate George
Treppel, special agent SusanGorek went undercover.
Oh, she attended a Mensa murderweekend.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Mensa murder weekend.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
He is so smart he's in the Mensa group.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
What is that again?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Super high IQ.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
That's what I thought .
I know of it.
I just I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah.
So she went to the Mensa murderweekend where Trepol's wife
organized this like fun littlemurder mystery party right so
trepol wrote the pamphlet fortheir weekend describing writing
a threatening note and thenpoisoning the recipient of the
note way to implicate yourself,all right so during this weekend
(33:16):
gorick had contact with trepoland learned that he was selling
his house, oh, and he was movingsomewhere else in Florida.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
And so Gorick arranged to rent his house after
him and his wife moved.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
And a search team came in and they actually found
bottles containing thallium.
Like what a dumbass you'removing and you're not cleaning
up after yourself well, youdeserve to get caught, you
fucking moron so after thediscovery treple was charged
with seven counts of poisoningand murder, though right,
because he what's her name?
(33:55):
Died oh, I, I will get to that.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yes, yes, yes, yes yes.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
No, that's okay.
So another search of his newhome in April turned up
chemistry books, equipment andinformation about poisons, and
they found a bottle cappingmachine.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
So he could pop the.
Coca-cola and put the stuff inand then recap it, so it looks
like it's brand spanking new.
Yep wow.
That's why I don't drink cokeand guess what else they found
cocaine.
Oh wait, that was old days ofcoke they found agatha
christie's novel the pale horsewow, ain't that some shit treble
(34:37):
was found guilty on one countof first degree murder.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Six counts of attempted first degree murder.
Wow, seven counts of poisoningfood or water.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
And one count of consumer product tampering.
Wow, all of his appeals havebeen denied Good, including his
last one, which was in 2012.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
And he is currently on death row in.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Floridaida at 76 years old.
I'm not sad about that.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
What a dick okay, let's talk about something
positive.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
We're gonna whoa, we don't do that.
On the history of buffoons in1977 there was another case.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
A 19 month old girl was flown from Qatar to a
hospital in London.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
And she was super sick.
No one knew why and she wasgetting worse.
Doctors are stumped Right.
A nurse at the hospital, missMarsha Matland, was doing her
rounds and she just happened tohave read the pale horse.
Wow, she noticed the baby.
Symptoms were eerily similar towhat christie described for
(35:43):
thallium poisoning.
The hospital could not test forthallium poisoning so they
actually had to send test resultor samples to scotland yard
okay but they they were able todetermine sure okay.
So it turns out, the girlaccidentally swallowed
insecticide with thallium in it,oh boy, but she got the right
treatment and made a fullrecovery, nice.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
So the guy who wrote the report in the medical
journal actually thanked Christyfor bringing thallium to
everyone's attention and MarshaMatlin for being a well-read
nurse.
So basically Agatha Christie,queen of crime, was kind of a
life-saving hero.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I mean, yeah, she in a roundabout way and then she
got attacked for it.
But you know, those hatersgoing to hate.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
So yeah, I mean, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
It's a fiction, it's a novel, you know it's weird
that people um, it's weird thatpeople okay, so like Stephen
King, look at all the stuff he'swritten.
So if I go and take somebodyand chain them up to a bed and
break their legs with a boardand a sledgehammer, yeah, I mean
, are people going to beoutraged at Stephen King?
Probably not, I know, which isjust weird.
(36:53):
So it's like, why be outragedat her Different times?
Speaker 1 (36:56):
but Did you hear that there's a Dexter killer?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Like copying what the show does.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Nope, no, I have not yep, I listen to murder shows I
know um, I've never.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Did you ever watch that show?
I never watched it I watched.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Um, yeah, I think it was almost to the last season
that I I ended up stoppingbefore it ended.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Because there's a new one out.
There is.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
And maybe even a prequel, I don't know Something?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
yeah, I guess I don't know.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Nathan has seen the original all the way through and
he said the last season kind ofjumped the shark so I didn't
even watch it.
Yeah, that's too bad.
But yeah, that was AgathaChristie's.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
The Pale Horse and thallium poisoning is weird that
a book can help so much, eventhough it got some shit at one
point.
But uh, go, agatha christie,yeah and uh, and I and I love
that I I found an audiobook thatI could listen to, get from the
library and listen to.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, no, no.
I I wanted obviously the palehorse because I was going to
read that, but I didn't have umtime to go actually get it, get
the yeah, physical form of thebook and read it, and this one
was the audiobook.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
It's funny because I know how we title these episodes
.
We usually just say Origin ofWeird, and then what it is.
This one has had so many othertitles to it, and it's funny
because I probably still wouldhave landed on Behold a Pale
Horse.
But anyways, do you notremember that from the Bible?
No Well, I suppose, All right,buffoons.
(38:26):
That's it for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Buckle up, because we've got another historical
adventure waiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
explore hit us up on socialmedia.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
We're history buffoons podcast on youtube x,
instagram and facebook.
You can also email us athistory buffoons podcast at
gmailcom.
We are bradley and kate.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Music by cory acres follow us wherever you get your
podcasts and turn thosenotifications on to stay in the
loop until next time, staycurious and don't forget to rate
and review us.
Remember, the buffoonery neverstops.
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