February 27, 2025 • 21 mins
Dive into the whimsical world of the 'Whiskey War,' where Canada and Denmark engaged in an unusual territorial dispute over a tiny patch of rock known as Hans Island. This episode reveals how a small island, approximately 1.3 square kilometers, sparked decades of friendly rivalry characterized by creative flag plantings and playful exchanges of whiskey and schnapps. Discover the lighter side of diplomatic relations as we explore the history behind this rocky battleground nestled in the Nares Strait.
In this episode, we journey through the timeline of events that have shaped this quirky dispute, including the origins of the conflict and the humorous interactions that emerged between the two nations. From the first flag stand-off to the resolution that was achieved in June 2022, we unpack the strategic significance of Hans Island and why both nations have passionately laid claim to it.
Join us as we examine the complexities of international relations, showcasing how humor often plays a role in easing tensions. This captivating tale not only entertains but also offers insights into national identity and diplomacy, revealing that sometimes, even the most serious disputes can be wrapped in laughter. Don't forget to subscribe to stay updated with our historical adventures, and share your thoughts with us. Your engagement adds to our community of curious minds!
The Canadian Encyclopedia
Hans Island
Article by Graeme S. Mount
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/hans-island
Why Canada And Denmark Both Want This Island
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU5sE6xo-zk
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Oh, hey there.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Oh, hey there.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm well, how are you ?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm doing well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Good yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
We are the History Buffoons.
That's right, and this is theorigin of weird and I'm kate and
I'm bradley that's right youare.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
That's right, you are um, I'm gonna get right to it
let's do it.
Yeah, okay, let's find outsomething weird okay, so I don't
even remember how I found thisokay but there is a tiny,
desolate island called hansisland hans like on solo yes,
(00:53):
yes weird.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Okay, where is this?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
it's basically a big rock covered in snow and ice oh
stuck in the middle of the naresstraight okay, where is that?
It is what separates canada andgreenland.
Oh, all right and this part ofgreenland is is denmark.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Actually, it's like doesn't denmark technically run?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
yeah, yeah, yeah yeah , so this desolate island, hans
island, it's basically thecenter of a really strange
border dispute okay betweencanada and greenland okay, well
denmark, yeah, and nobody knowswho this island belongs to.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Okay so they just like never decided, like hey,
this is ours or no, this is ours.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
So both Canada and Denmark claim it, it's mine and
they actually both have a point.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
So the island falls within a 12 mile territorial
limit of both countriesaccording to international law.
So there is a 22 mile widestreet.
Take that in half.
Yeah, it's 12 miles, right?
So they basically split thisnear straight down the middle,
(02:12):
right?
So what?
Like the west half is greenlandand the east half is canada,
sure?
And hans island is right in thecenter oh, jesus, yeah and Hans
.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Island is right in the center.
Oh Jesus, yeah, so that's whythey each lay claim to it, yes,
okay.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So they've actually tried figuring out a bunch of
times.
Even back in the 70s they weretrying to draw the border
through the Strait but had noluck.
Okay, when they were mappingout the border, they easily
agreed that there was a coupleof islands that are a little bit
more west Franklin and CrozierIslands and that became part of
(02:53):
Greenland no problem, but forsome reason Greenland's like no.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Hans Island is also ours.
They just really want thatisland yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Right in the middle Right.
So splitting was the onlyoption option and they couldn't
even agree on that.
So they just kind of shruggedand said we'll figure it out
later let's uh pause on this,for a moment exactly jesus so
instead of fighting over it,they did something a little bit
more entertaining, okay in 1984,canadian troops went to the
(03:22):
island, not to invade, but toplant their flag and leave a
bottle of Canadian whiskey.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Really.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Did they say what kind of Canadian whiskey it was?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I think it's actual Canadian whiskey.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
That's what it is.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
That is the name.
Oh, is it yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, there's an actual canadian whiskey I didn't
realize that.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, okay um.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Denmark's response was they sent their minister of
greenland affairs over to swapout the canadian stuff with the
danish flags and a bottle ofdanish schnapps with a note
saying welcome to danish.
That's funny and that's how theWhiskey War begins.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
The Whiskey War.
The Whiskey War, that's whatit's called.
That's funny.
Why isn't it called theSchnapps War?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Because it's whiskey and whatever Whiskey War is an
alliteration.
It sounds better.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Well, it definitely sounds better than Schnapps War.
Schnapps War Well, itdefinitely sounds better than
Schnapps War.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Schnapps War.
So a few years after theinitial flag and Schnapps
incident, the Danes were back atHans.
Island in 1988.
Okay.
And the Arctic Ocean Patrolbuilt a cairn which is a pile of
rocks Okay.
And then put up another Danishflag, oh geez.
So the Danes were there.
And then they came back againfor a second flag, right.
(04:46):
And then, to really drive thepoint home, in 1995, a Danish
environment officer flew in andadded a third flag.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So they just keep adding flags.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
So in this time the Canadians have not added.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
They haven't been out there.
No, that's so weird.
Okay, but they did get themessage, but apparently, wow, so
in 2002.
So again, the canadians reallyhaven't been there.
But in 2002, a danishinspection ship called the jody
miss villain how awesome a nameis that, jody miss villain?
Yeah, that's pretty great.
Um, when that ship showed up,they found that the 1988 flag
(05:28):
was gone.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Oh, someone took it and the 1990 flag was all torn
up interesting so they.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
There were two theories.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
First, maybe canadians took it or took it.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
So they were actually two canadian geologists who
were there before.
Okay, they weren't one to likelay claim or anything.
They were just there to studyright um, and they were
literally the only ones on thisisland in between the danes
being there and then in 2002right gotcha so they were the
obvious suspects.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
But makes sense, it was probably the weather well,
yeah, I mean, especially ifone's torn up.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I mean if it gets very inclement there, it can do
damage to a flag, I mean it'sexposed to some serious storms
and those flags were bound toget wrecked eventually.
I mean, my neighbor has anAmerican flag that really
doesn't look like an Americanflag anymore, it's all tattered
yeah and also geologists reallyaren't known for their vandalism
.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Are you sure?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So what did the Danes ?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
do oh dear.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Any rational action.
Of course they put up anotherflag.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So this is four total flags they put up, yeah they
wanted that island.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Apparently, it took another three years, until 2005,
for the Canadians to return.
Okay, maybe they wereintimidated, maybe they didn't
care, who knows, because it tookthem a long time to get back.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Oh, yeah, for them.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
But when they did come back, they did make a
statement Okay, they built theirown pile of rocks, oh dear,
like the Danish cairn.
Yeah, and put the Canadian flagon top, grab the danish
schnapps and left some canadianwhiskey in its place.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Do you think they drank the schnapps then?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I mean, it would be a waste if you didn't right.
I feel like just don't throw itaway.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, who would that have gone to the water?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
arctic, yeah, so things are about to get super
serious sounds like it just aweek after that canadian visit,
canadian defense minister billgraham showed up on hans island
and the danish officials werelike we're gonna have to have a
formal protest here.
(07:40):
This is our island.
Three days later, the danishambassador wrote an article in
the ottawa citizens basicallysaying hands off hans island,
it's ours hands off hans islandand just a week after that,
denmark sent a naval ship tohans island to really emphasize
their claim okay, so theyactually sent a whole naval ship
(08:02):
.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, yeah it.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, it's called the HDMS Toluga, toluga, well or
Tolugak.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
It's.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
T-U-L-U-G-A-K.
Oh, but it's Danish, so Right.
Either way, I'm going to sayToluga.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
How's that?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
go Toluga.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I like that one better.
That's great.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So that finally got Canada to the table to talk
about the island's future.
So after all the flag plantingand whiskey swapping, the Danish
prime minister finally steppedin and was like this flag war is
Kind of ridiculous, you guys.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, this is a little nonsense going on.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
It's time to stop.
We're civilized countries.
We should be able to figurethis out, you would think,
Peacefully.
Right, as if it wasn't already.
That's funny.
So Canada agreed and theydecided okay, let's meet in New
York in 2005 and sort this allout.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
So the Danish foreign minister and his canadian
counterpart got together.
All right, okay, now the danishforeign.
This is just funny, the danishforeign minister.
His name is perstig muller,muller that is different muller,
perstig muller, and thecanadian counterpart was pierre
pettigrew.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Pierre, pettigrew, pettigrew wow, it's kind of is
that, like peter pettigrew,pierre.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Pettigrew.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Pettigrew.
Wow, it's kind of is that likePeter Pettigrew's, like distant?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
cousin, fancy cousin, yeah, fancy cousin, yeah.
So they even agreed that ifthey couldn't reach a deal in
New York, that they wouldactually take it to
international court of justicein the Hague.
Oh, really, yeah.
Do you know what the Hague is?
I've heard of it.
It's an international city ofpeace.
Okay, so it's home to a lot ofinternational organizations,
(09:45):
including the InternationalCourt of Justice, and it's been
the site of many peaceconferences.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
And where is that?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I think it's in the Netherlands.
Oh is it?
Yeah, I almost forgot that.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I didn't write it down, that's okay.
So they didn't write it down,that's okay.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
So they didn't reach an agreement.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Of course they didn't .
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Fast forward to 2012.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Can I ask real quick yeah, did they each bring a
bottle to that meeting?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I don't know, and a little flag that sat on the
table.
Should we swap some shots whilewe do this?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, I'd like some of your schnapps, please.
Here's some whiskey.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
So in 2012, they agreed to a process to solve the
issue, but nothing had actuallyhappened.
Hans Island was still in limbo.
Like they keep saying, like hey, we'll do this, yeah, okay,
we'll do this, but then nothinglike legally is happening?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Did any of this that you?
Did you come across as to whyit was so important?
Yes, yes okay cool because I'mreally curious as to why you're
gonna be really disappointed Iknow I had a feeling I would be,
but the fact that they're goingthrough this lengths with the
and obviously it's non-violent,it's right and it's lasting
decades.
Yeah, that's.
That's the weird part is howlong it lasts but like hey, have
(10:58):
you been to the island lately?
you should probably go leaveanother bottle of whiskey.
It's like or schnapps, orwhatever side you're on it's
like.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
That is just weird so at this time they finally
decided let's split the islandlike come on did you say how big
it was in the beginning?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
um, I don't think I did, but I do have it okay.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, I'm curious, yeah I, I'm, yeah, I do have
that All right.
Six more years passed, jesusChrist, and then they finally
announced a joint task force tofinally settle this.
A joint task force.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Come on Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Okay, so several years since that announcement
and then now we finally do havea resolution, okay.
And then, now we finally dohave a resolution, okay.
So a lot of folks think thatDenmark should have gotten Hans
Island because they argue thatit was discovered back in the
late 1800s by Americanexpeditions.
But the expeditions wereworking with Danish authorities.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Oh, so, since they were working with them.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yes, they should have went to them.
Yes.
I feel like the United Statesneeds to lay claim to this now I
know right go plant an americanflag up there with some beer
and then there was a greenlandicexplorer named hans hendrick,
okay, who was along for the ride, right.
So, yeah, um, so they're, uh,they also have, like greenland
(12:19):
Inuits, and they used to stop onthat island heading over to
Canada, and remember, it's a22-mile straight between these
two points, right, so they would, you know, let's say they're
going to swim, because, why not?
They're going to swim theArctic straight here.
They're going to swim the.
Arctic.
Straight here they're going tofreeze, they're going to hop on
(12:42):
this rock and then swim another12 miles to get to Canada to do
some exploring or 11 miles.
Yes, whatever.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
That would be a really cold swim.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So the Danish Inuits or the Greenlandic Inuits, right
, so they used that as like astopping point.
Sure, canada Inuits never did.
Oh really, yeah, they werehappy in Canada, they didn't
need to go to Greenland.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
They didn't want to partake in their festivities.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
So everybody thinks that Denmark pretty much had a
good case, right, Right.
So this rock it's 1.3 squarekilometers, which is about a
half a square mile.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
So not very big.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
So about 321 acres.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Oh really, that's how many acres it is, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And it's nothing but rock Well right.
It's literally rock.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
So it's just a giant rock coming like the surface of
the water.
Yeah, it's like a flat rock,Right.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah, that's weird yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
So there, right, yeah , that's weird.
Yeah, so there's no oil,there's no treasure, nothing,
right?
It's just literally a stoppingpoint in the middle of the
strait.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yes, wow, yes.
So the only thing that was kindof mentioned about why is to
extend their territorial watersoh really, yes, that's literally
all they wanted us for so thethe straight is frozen most of
the time year round I'd say yes,being up there so maybe it
(14:06):
would be valuable once globalwarming kind of kicks in and the
arctic starts melting I meanmaybe, I guess but, you know,
nobody's in a hurry to solvethis thing either.
So, no, it doesn't seem thatimportant, yet important enough
to like keep doing this.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
So can they literally walk from?
Like what, since it's frozenmost of the year, can they just
walk to it?
Probably that's wild, probablyI don't think I'd feel
comfortable doing it let's do itI bet that ice is pretty thick.
Let's do it okay yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Oh look, there's a danish flag.
Oh look, there's a canadianflag let's leave some booze,
okay, so after all this back andforth, all the flags, all the
whiskey, all the schnapps, theyfinally figured out what to do
with hans island.
All right, tell us june 14th2022 so almost three years ago,
jeez denmark, greenland, canadaand Nunavut, which is one of the
(15:05):
big northern Canadianterritories where most of their
Inuit live.
Okay, they all agreed to justsplit the island right down the
middle along the natural faultline.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
That makes sense.
Sure, so they had the Canadianand the Danish foreign ministers
and even the Greenlandic primeminister sign an agreement, but
it wasn't official just yet.
They still needed parliamentsin Denmark and Greenland to say,
yeah, go ahead.
That sounds good.
Sure, on October 5th 2023.
(15:36):
Jesus, the Danish parliamentstarted working on the laws to
actually create the land and thesea borders.
Okay, they finally made itofficial on december 19th 2023.
Good lord and here's here's kindof a cool part.
So, even though there's nowlike a quote-unquote border,
(15:57):
yeah, they're not gonna have anyborder controls on the island
of course not I know, but it'sfunny to think about.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
I mean yeah this, yeah this little island.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
This little post with one guy with a stamp.
Let me see your passport.
It's got like just a single,like metal detector on it With a
little dude sitting at a desklittle desk.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Stamping passports.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
So the law actually says that anyone going to hans
island, whether it's forofficial, business, just to
visit, because you can you cango anywhere on the whole island
without checks I like how yousay it for official business,
what?
Business?
I don't know it's still a rock.
Even though it's technicallytwo countries, it's one big,
(16:43):
nice, friendly island.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Right, so do they still share booze?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
I don't think so.
I think that's gone and passed.
That's too bad, isn't that so?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
weird.
The whiskey war, that's sostrange.
I mean all over for a piece ofrock.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Literally a rock.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
That literally does nothing for either side.
Yeah, that's weird rock,literally a rock.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
That literally does nothing for either side.
Yeah, that's weird.
Yeah, half a square mile.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I didn't realize.
That's how many acres are in ahalf a square mile.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
You said 321?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I did some calculations, but
you know how I am at math andnumbers in general.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
You don't math always the greatest.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I really don't, but I like, don't so but I like that
you try.
Let's see what.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Half a square mile in acres is 3.20 acres.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
So yeah, oh, 3.2 sorry not 3.2, 320, 320 and I
said 321 so it's close.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, so that's funny half a square mile I would do.
They still each have a flag onthe island?
Then too, I would assume.
I would assume, I would imaginethey do.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Let me show you a picture of the rock, okay,
because literally it is so silly, I would imagine, at least in
my brain.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
I just think of some desolate rock in the middle of
water.
But if it's mostly frozen,that's crazy too.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
So the rock?
It looks like rock, rock, sure,um, and then there's ice all
around it.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, I kind of figured that but here's what it
looks like oh, my word it's arock that is literally just a
rock, that's funny, I like, yeah, where are they going to set up
their little stamping passportpost?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
that's funny they're gonna have to build a new cairn,
I guess.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Put up a new flag, uh-huh yeah, you're not wrong,
that is literally just a rock inthe water I know, that is so
funny, isn't?
That awesome I mean, there'snot like you can farm on there
no, there's nothing.
You can't do anything that'sjust the funny part about it is
they're again not aggressively.
It's all been friendly um.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So if you kind of look here, canada okay, has all
these like little tiny yeah,little tiny um islands, and then
there is an island called elsmand that's where there are some
inhabitants there, okay, andthat's where the Inuits would
travel from Hans Island to thisisland in particular, oh, but
(19:15):
it's so tiny compared to Canadaand Greenland that you can't
even see it on a freaking map.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So Ellesmere is part of Canada, though.
It is, and then they wouldcross over to Hans Island and
then to Greenland if they wentthat way, and vice versa yes if
they're going to greenland wasgoing to canada okay, wow, yeah,
um, and then okay describe whatyou see well, I see the
canadian flag and the the danishflag.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Right, that's what that is and a bunch of people
like yeah, like basicallyputting them up at different
times of the of that's so funnyyeah so then this is a picture,
this is all going to be on oursocial media.
But yeah, you can see, like thefault line here, hans island,
here is like right, smack dab inthe middle, and then this
kosher island and franklinisland are towards the greenland
(20:03):
side so those are GreenlandIsland, nope.
Nope.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
So funny, isn't that cool?
Yeah, definitely.
This is the middle of thatstraight.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
So that's wild Right in the middle, right down the
center.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, that's funny, the whiskey war, the whiskey war
.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Never heard of that, but that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, so thank you for that one.
Yeah, that's funny yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Well.
I guess, that's it, I suppose,I suppose.
All right, buffoons, that's itfor today's episode.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Buckle up, because we've got another historical
adventure waiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
explore.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
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You can also email us athistorybuffoonspodcast at
gmailcom.
We are Bradley and Kate.
Music by Corey Akers.
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Speaker 1 (21:06):
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to
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Speaker 2 (21:09):
Remember, the buffoonery never stops.
Oh, hey there.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Oh, hey there.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm well, how are you ?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm doing well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Good yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
We are the History Buffoons.
That's right, and this is theorigin of weird and I'm kate and
I'm bradley that's right youare.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
That's right, you are um, I'm gonna get right to it
let's do it.
Yeah, okay, let's find outsomething weird okay, so I don't
even remember how I found thisokay but there is a tiny,
desolate island called hansisland hans like on solo yes,
(00:53):
yes weird.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Okay, where is this?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
it's basically a big rock covered in snow and ice oh
stuck in the middle of the naresstraight okay, where is that?
It is what separates canada andgreenland.
Oh, all right and this part ofgreenland is is denmark.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Actually, it's like doesn't denmark technically run?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
yeah, yeah, yeah yeah , so this desolate island, hans
island, it's basically thecenter of a really strange
border dispute okay betweencanada and greenland okay, well
denmark, yeah, and nobody knowswho this island belongs to.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Okay so they just like never decided, like hey,
this is ours or no, this is ours.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
So both Canada and Denmark claim it, it's mine and
they actually both have a point.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
So the island falls within a 12 mile territorial
limit of both countriesaccording to international law.
So there is a 22 mile widestreet.
Take that in half.
Yeah, it's 12 miles, right?
So they basically split thisnear straight down the middle,
(02:12):
right?
So what?
Like the west half is greenlandand the east half is canada,
sure?
And hans island is right in thecenter oh, jesus, yeah and Hans
.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Island is right in the center.
Oh Jesus, yeah, so that's whythey each lay claim to it, yes,
okay.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So they've actually tried figuring out a bunch of
times.
Even back in the 70s they weretrying to draw the border
through the Strait but had noluck.
Okay, when they were mappingout the border, they easily
agreed that there was a coupleof islands that are a little bit
more west Franklin and CrozierIslands and that became part of
(02:53):
Greenland no problem, but forsome reason Greenland's like no.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Hans Island is also ours.
They just really want thatisland yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Right in the middle Right.
So splitting was the onlyoption option and they couldn't
even agree on that.
So they just kind of shruggedand said we'll figure it out
later let's uh pause on this,for a moment exactly jesus so
instead of fighting over it,they did something a little bit
more entertaining, okay in 1984,canadian troops went to the
(03:22):
island, not to invade, but toplant their flag and leave a
bottle of Canadian whiskey.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Really.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Did they say what kind of Canadian whiskey it was?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I think it's actual Canadian whiskey.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
That's what it is.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
That is the name.
Oh, is it yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, there's an actual canadian whiskey I didn't
realize that.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, okay um.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Denmark's response was they sent their minister of
greenland affairs over to swapout the canadian stuff with the
danish flags and a bottle ofdanish schnapps with a note
saying welcome to danish.
That's funny and that's how theWhiskey War begins.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
The Whiskey War.
The Whiskey War, that's whatit's called.
That's funny.
Why isn't it called theSchnapps War?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Because it's whiskey and whatever Whiskey War is an
alliteration.
It sounds better.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Well, it definitely sounds better than Schnapps War.
Schnapps War Well, itdefinitely sounds better than
Schnapps War.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Schnapps War.
So a few years after theinitial flag and Schnapps
incident, the Danes were back atHans.
Island in 1988.
Okay.
And the Arctic Ocean Patrolbuilt a cairn which is a pile of
rocks Okay.
And then put up another Danishflag, oh geez.
So the Danes were there.
And then they came back againfor a second flag, right.
(04:46):
And then, to really drive thepoint home, in 1995, a Danish
environment officer flew in andadded a third flag.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So they just keep adding flags.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
So in this time the Canadians have not added.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
They haven't been out there.
No, that's so weird.
Okay, but they did get themessage, but apparently, wow, so
in 2002.
So again, the canadians reallyhaven't been there.
But in 2002, a danishinspection ship called the jody
miss villain how awesome a nameis that, jody miss villain?
Yeah, that's pretty great.
Um, when that ship showed up,they found that the 1988 flag
(05:28):
was gone.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Oh, someone took it and the 1990 flag was all torn
up interesting so they.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
There were two theories.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
First, maybe canadians took it or took it.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
So they were actually two canadian geologists who
were there before.
Okay, they weren't one to likelay claim or anything.
They were just there to studyright um, and they were
literally the only ones on thisisland in between the danes
being there and then in 2002right gotcha so they were the
obvious suspects.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
But makes sense, it was probably the weather well,
yeah, I mean, especially ifone's torn up.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I mean if it gets very inclement there, it can do
damage to a flag, I mean it'sexposed to some serious storms
and those flags were bound toget wrecked eventually.
I mean, my neighbor has anAmerican flag that really
doesn't look like an Americanflag anymore, it's all tattered
yeah and also geologists reallyaren't known for their vandalism
.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Are you sure?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So what did the Danes ?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
do oh dear.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Any rational action.
Of course they put up anotherflag.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So this is four total flags they put up, yeah they
wanted that island.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Apparently, it took another three years, until 2005,
for the Canadians to return.
Okay, maybe they wereintimidated, maybe they didn't
care, who knows, because it tookthem a long time to get back.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Oh, yeah, for them.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
But when they did come back, they did make a
statement Okay, they built theirown pile of rocks, oh dear,
like the Danish cairn.
Yeah, and put the Canadian flagon top, grab the danish
schnapps and left some canadianwhiskey in its place.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Do you think they drank the schnapps then?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I mean, it would be a waste if you didn't right.
I feel like just don't throw itaway.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, who would that have gone to the water?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
arctic, yeah, so things are about to get super
serious sounds like it just aweek after that canadian visit,
canadian defense minister billgraham showed up on hans island
and the danish officials werelike we're gonna have to have a
formal protest here.
(07:40):
This is our island.
Three days later, the danishambassador wrote an article in
the ottawa citizens basicallysaying hands off hans island,
it's ours hands off hans islandand just a week after that,
denmark sent a naval ship tohans island to really emphasize
their claim okay, so theyactually sent a whole naval ship
(08:02):
.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, yeah it.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, it's called the HDMS Toluga, toluga, well or
Tolugak.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
It's.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
T-U-L-U-G-A-K.
Oh, but it's Danish, so Right.
Either way, I'm going to sayToluga.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
How's that?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
go Toluga.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I like that one better.
That's great.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So that finally got Canada to the table to talk
about the island's future.
So after all the flag plantingand whiskey swapping, the Danish
prime minister finally steppedin and was like this flag war is
Kind of ridiculous, you guys.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, this is a little nonsense going on.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
It's time to stop.
We're civilized countries.
We should be able to figurethis out, you would think,
Peacefully.
Right, as if it wasn't already.
That's funny.
So Canada agreed and theydecided okay, let's meet in New
York in 2005 and sort this allout.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
So the Danish foreign minister and his canadian
counterpart got together.
All right, okay, now the danishforeign.
This is just funny, the danishforeign minister.
His name is perstig muller,muller that is different muller,
perstig muller, and thecanadian counterpart was pierre
pettigrew.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Pierre, pettigrew, pettigrew wow, it's kind of is
that, like peter pettigrew,pierre.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Pettigrew.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Pettigrew.
Wow, it's kind of is that likePeter Pettigrew's, like distant?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
cousin, fancy cousin, yeah, fancy cousin, yeah.
So they even agreed that ifthey couldn't reach a deal in
New York, that they wouldactually take it to
international court of justicein the Hague.
Oh, really, yeah.
Do you know what the Hague is?
I've heard of it.
It's an international city ofpeace.
Okay, so it's home to a lot ofinternational organizations,
(09:45):
including the InternationalCourt of Justice, and it's been
the site of many peaceconferences.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
And where is that?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I think it's in the Netherlands.
Oh is it?
Yeah, I almost forgot that.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I didn't write it down, that's okay.
So they didn't write it down,that's okay.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
So they didn't reach an agreement.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Of course they didn't .
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Fast forward to 2012.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Can I ask real quick yeah, did they each bring a
bottle to that meeting?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I don't know, and a little flag that sat on the
table.
Should we swap some shots whilewe do this?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, I'd like some of your schnapps, please.
Here's some whiskey.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
So in 2012, they agreed to a process to solve the
issue, but nothing had actuallyhappened.
Hans Island was still in limbo.
Like they keep saying, like hey, we'll do this, yeah, okay,
we'll do this, but then nothinglike legally is happening?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Did any of this that you?
Did you come across as to whyit was so important?
Yes, yes okay cool because I'mreally curious as to why you're
gonna be really disappointed Iknow I had a feeling I would be,
but the fact that they're goingthrough this lengths with the
and obviously it's non-violent,it's right and it's lasting
decades.
Yeah, that's.
That's the weird part is howlong it lasts but like hey, have
(10:58):
you been to the island lately?
you should probably go leaveanother bottle of whiskey.
It's like or schnapps, orwhatever side you're on it's
like.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
That is just weird so at this time they finally
decided let's split the islandlike come on did you say how big
it was in the beginning?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
um, I don't think I did, but I do have it okay.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, I'm curious, yeah I, I'm, yeah, I do have
that All right.
Six more years passed, jesusChrist, and then they finally
announced a joint task force tofinally settle this.
A joint task force.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Come on Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Okay, so several years since that announcement
and then now we finally do havea resolution, okay.
And then, now we finally dohave a resolution, okay.
So a lot of folks think thatDenmark should have gotten Hans
Island because they argue thatit was discovered back in the
late 1800s by Americanexpeditions.
But the expeditions wereworking with Danish authorities.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Oh, so, since they were working with them.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yes, they should have went to them.
Yes.
I feel like the United Statesneeds to lay claim to this now I
know right go plant an americanflag up there with some beer
and then there was a greenlandicexplorer named hans hendrick,
okay, who was along for the ride, right.
So, yeah, um, so they're, uh,they also have, like greenland
(12:19):
Inuits, and they used to stop onthat island heading over to
Canada, and remember, it's a22-mile straight between these
two points, right, so they would, you know, let's say they're
going to swim, because, why not?
They're going to swim theArctic straight here.
They're going to swim the.
Arctic.
Straight here they're going tofreeze, they're going to hop on
(12:42):
this rock and then swim another12 miles to get to Canada to do
some exploring or 11 miles.
Yes, whatever.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
That would be a really cold swim.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So the Danish Inuits or the Greenlandic Inuits, right
, so they used that as like astopping point.
Sure, canada Inuits never did.
Oh really, yeah, they werehappy in Canada, they didn't
need to go to Greenland.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
They didn't want to partake in their festivities.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
So everybody thinks that Denmark pretty much had a
good case, right, Right.
So this rock it's 1.3 squarekilometers, which is about a
half a square mile.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
So not very big.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
So about 321 acres.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Oh really, that's how many acres it is, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And it's nothing but rock Well right.
It's literally rock.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
So it's just a giant rock coming like the surface of
the water.
Yeah, it's like a flat rock,Right.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah, that's weird yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
So there, right, yeah , that's weird.
Yeah, so there's no oil,there's no treasure, nothing,
right?
It's just literally a stoppingpoint in the middle of the
strait.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yes, wow, yes.
So the only thing that was kindof mentioned about why is to
extend their territorial watersoh really, yes, that's literally
all they wanted us for so thethe straight is frozen most of
the time year round I'd say yes,being up there so maybe it
(14:06):
would be valuable once globalwarming kind of kicks in and the
arctic starts melting I meanmaybe, I guess but, you know,
nobody's in a hurry to solvethis thing either.
So, no, it doesn't seem thatimportant, yet important enough
to like keep doing this.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
So can they literally walk from?
Like what, since it's frozenmost of the year, can they just
walk to it?
Probably that's wild, probablyI don't think I'd feel
comfortable doing it let's do itI bet that ice is pretty thick.
Let's do it okay yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Oh look, there's a danish flag.
Oh look, there's a canadianflag let's leave some booze,
okay, so after all this back andforth, all the flags, all the
whiskey, all the schnapps, theyfinally figured out what to do
with hans island.
All right, tell us june 14th2022 so almost three years ago,
jeez denmark, greenland, canadaand Nunavut, which is one of the
(15:05):
big northern Canadianterritories where most of their
Inuit live.
Okay, they all agreed to justsplit the island right down the
middle along the natural faultline.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
That makes sense.
Sure, so they had the Canadianand the Danish foreign ministers
and even the Greenlandic primeminister sign an agreement, but
it wasn't official just yet.
They still needed parliamentsin Denmark and Greenland to say,
yeah, go ahead.
That sounds good.
Sure, on October 5th 2023.
(15:36):
Jesus, the Danish parliamentstarted working on the laws to
actually create the land and thesea borders.
Okay, they finally made itofficial on december 19th 2023.
Good lord and here's here's kindof a cool part.
So, even though there's nowlike a quote-unquote border,
(15:57):
yeah, they're not gonna have anyborder controls on the island
of course not I know, but it'sfunny to think about.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
I mean yeah this, yeah this little island.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
This little post with one guy with a stamp.
Let me see your passport.
It's got like just a single,like metal detector on it With a
little dude sitting at a desklittle desk.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Stamping passports.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
So the law actually says that anyone going to hans
island, whether it's forofficial, business, just to
visit, because you can you cango anywhere on the whole island
without checks I like how yousay it for official business,
what?
Business?
I don't know it's still a rock.
Even though it's technicallytwo countries, it's one big,
(16:43):
nice, friendly island.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Right, so do they still share booze?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
I don't think so.
I think that's gone and passed.
That's too bad, isn't that so?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
weird.
The whiskey war, that's sostrange.
I mean all over for a piece ofrock.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Literally a rock.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
That literally does nothing for either side.
Yeah, that's weird rock,literally a rock.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
That literally does nothing for either side.
Yeah, that's weird.
Yeah, half a square mile.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I didn't realize.
That's how many acres are in ahalf a square mile.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
You said 321?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I did some calculations, but
you know how I am at math andnumbers in general.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
You don't math always the greatest.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I really don't, but I like, don't so but I like that
you try.
Let's see what.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Half a square mile in acres is 3.20 acres.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
So yeah, oh, 3.2 sorry not 3.2, 320, 320 and I
said 321 so it's close.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, so that's funny half a square mile I would do.
They still each have a flag onthe island?
Then too, I would assume.
I would assume, I would imaginethey do.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Let me show you a picture of the rock, okay,
because literally it is so silly, I would imagine, at least in
my brain.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
I just think of some desolate rock in the middle of
water.
But if it's mostly frozen,that's crazy too.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
So the rock?
It looks like rock, rock, sure,um, and then there's ice all
around it.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, I kind of figured that but here's what it
looks like oh, my word it's arock that is literally just a
rock, that's funny, I like, yeah, where are they going to set up
their little stamping passportpost?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
that's funny they're gonna have to build a new cairn,
I guess.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Put up a new flag, uh-huh yeah, you're not wrong,
that is literally just a rock inthe water I know, that is so
funny, isn't?
That awesome I mean, there'snot like you can farm on there
no, there's nothing.
You can't do anything that'sjust the funny part about it is
they're again not aggressively.
It's all been friendly um.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So if you kind of look here, canada okay, has all
these like little tiny yeah,little tiny um islands, and then
there is an island called elsmand that's where there are some
inhabitants there, okay, andthat's where the Inuits would
travel from Hans Island to thisisland in particular, oh, but
(19:15):
it's so tiny compared to Canadaand Greenland that you can't
even see it on a freaking map.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So Ellesmere is part of Canada, though.
It is, and then they wouldcross over to Hans Island and
then to Greenland if they wentthat way, and vice versa yes if
they're going to greenland wasgoing to canada okay, wow, yeah,
um, and then okay describe whatyou see well, I see the
canadian flag and the the danishflag.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Right, that's what that is and a bunch of people
like yeah, like basicallyputting them up at different
times of the of that's so funnyyeah so then this is a picture,
this is all going to be on oursocial media.
But yeah, you can see, like thefault line here, hans island,
here is like right, smack dab inthe middle, and then this
kosher island and franklinisland are towards the greenland
(20:03):
side so those are GreenlandIsland, nope.
Nope.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
So funny, isn't that cool?
Yeah, definitely.
This is the middle of thatstraight.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
So that's wild Right in the middle, right down the
center.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, that's funny, the whiskey war, the whiskey war
.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Never heard of that, but that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, so thank you for that one.
Yeah, that's funny yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Well.
I guess, that's it, I suppose,I suppose.
All right, buffoons, that's itfor today's episode.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Buckle up, because we've got another historical
adventure waiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
explore.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Hit us up on social media.
We're History Buffoons Podcaston YouTube X, instagram and
Facebook.
You can also email us athistorybuffoonspodcast at
gmailcom.
We are Bradley and Kate.
Music by Corey Akers.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn
those notifications on to stayin the loop.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to
rate and review us.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Remember, the buffoonery never stops.
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