April 24, 2025 • 37 mins
What happens when a pathologist steals the brain of one of history's greatest geniuses? In one of the most bizarre tales from scientific history, we dive into the unauthorized removal of Albert Einstein's brain during his 1955 autopsy and the strange 40-year journey that followed. Despite Einstein's explicit wishes to be cremated without fanfare, pathologist Thomas Stoltz Harvey took the physicist's brain, cut it into hundreds of pieces, and kept it stored in basements and next to beer cases while his own life unraveled around him.
But Einstein's story is just the beginning. We pivot to explore an equally fascinating experiment in genius-making as Hungarian educator Laszlo Polgar sets out to prove that extraordinary ability can be created through specialized early education. After studying hundreds of historical geniuses, Polgar and his wife decided to test their theory on their three daughters using chess as the perfect objective measure of success.
The results were nothing short of remarkable. From their modest Budapest apartment transformed into a chess laboratory, Susan, Sophia, and Judith Polgar emerged as chess prodigies, with the youngest defeating grandmasters by age 11 and becoming the youngest person ever to achieve the grandmaster title. Their story challenges our understanding of how genius develops and whether it can be manufactured through intensive, specialized training.
These parallel tales – one about studying the physical remnants of genius and another about attempting to create it – raise profound questions about human potential. Are extraordinary abilities present from birth, waiting to be discovered? Or can they be cultivated in anyone with the right approach? Either way, both stories reveal our fascination with understanding what makes exceptional minds tick and the lengths we'll go to unlock these secrets.
Ready to have your mind blown by these true tales of brains, chess, and the pursuit of genius? Join us for an episode that will make you question everything you thought you knew about human potential.
Protocols.io Autopsy and Brain Collection and Fixation
https://www.protocols.io/view/autopsy-and-brain-collection-and-fixation-n92ldm6nnl5b/v1?step=6
National Geographic by Virginia Hughes
My dad has Einstein's brain by David Adam
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/apr/08/science.research1
How to make a genius according to László Polgar By Ola Francis
VIDEO-ONLY 19 MOVES! Judit Polgar Beats Magnus Carlsen with a Nice TRICK in Sicilian Defense (2022) by c
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
oh, hello I do.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I do recall a recent episode where I went first and
then you said I fucked it up,you couldn't even get the intro
right.
But hey, so I don't get yelledat again.
We're the History Buffoons.
I am Bradley and that is Kate.
Oh, hello, oh, hey there.
There it is, oh, hey there,good Lord.
I mean right out of the gate.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
That was, that was epic I'm making a lot of chord
noises you're doing something.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Good lord, can you stop fucking with it to stop
making the noises.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorryoh, my word, jesus, mother,
something or other.
Oh hey there, oh hey there.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
This is all staying in, just so you're aware I'm
kate yeah, I went over that ohokay, that's bradley yes, I am,
and we are the history buffoonsand this is an origin of weird
story and I am not the topic, ifyou can believe it I can't
because I thought we were goingto talk about you and how
fucking weird you are right nowjesus christ.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
That was epic.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
That was epic I'm just gonna have some more of my
coffee so, anyways, this is theorigin of weird.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I'm gonna just fill time until she's ready oh my
goodness okay so it feels like Ihaven't done this in a minute.
Oh probably because we haven'twe haven't.
Well, I mean, we only do theorigins every other week as a
little side quest for our mainbuffoonery.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
A side quest.
I love it so.
So we're going to talk aboutthe brain, the brain, the brain.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Did you?
Oh, I just hit my.
That was weird and it echoed inmy head.
Did you ever watch Pinky andthe Brain?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Pinky, and the Brain Brain, brain, brain, brain,
brain, brain, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I used to love that when I was younger.
Yeah, I mean a lot younger.
I'm fucking old, yeah, I know,I know.
You tell me every time I seeyou.
So, she doesn't go.
Hey, Brad, how are you?
She goes, You're old.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Okay.
So what are we talking abouttoday?
We're going to talk about thebrain.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
We all know who Albert Einstein is Trying to
play.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Oh shit, that's not my topic.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
No, it's the brain.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
He was a genius right , he was.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
yes, he was what you would call a smart man.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
And you'd probably assume that his brain was also
something extraordinary I'mgoing to go with.
Not, it actually turns out itwas extraordinary, but in a
different way.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Was it enlarged?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
No, I will tell you.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Was it small?
Was there a hamster running ona wheel?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Jesus Einstein was actually pretty clear about what
he wanted when he passed away.
He passed away at the PrincetonHospital on April 18th 1955.
Okay, he had an abdominalaortic aneurysm oh shit and like
internal bleeding, but he waspretty clear after he died that
he did not want to be idolizedin any kind of way.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Well, apparently he didn't get his wish in any kind
of way.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Well, apparently he didn't get his wish.
So, author of the bookPostcards from the Brain Museum
by Brian Burrell, he points outthat Einstein's instructions
were to cremate him and scatterhis ashes privately, to avoid
any kind of brain worship, so tospeak.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Was that like a common practice in 1955?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
No, that's just what einstein wanted.
He didn't want people likegushing over his, like his ashes
.
Essentially, he wantedeverything to be done privately
okay, okay because he alreadyknew that he was kind of a big
deal because of how smart he wasright, and he didn't want to
want to be sensationalized.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, he was a modest fellow.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yes, exactly.
But, the oncologist, nope, thepathologist on call.
Oh, there it is.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I see how you can fuck that up.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
The pathologist on call was made aware of
Einstein's passing, so he wasthe one that would do the
autopsy.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
And he did something that would probably get his
medical license evoked today didhe take the brain?
He took it the fucking brain Ifeel like that's really
unethical so his name was thomasstoltz.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Harvey was born in october 10th 1912 was his middle
name Stoltz, or was he aStoltz-Harvey?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Stoltz-Harvey, there's no dash.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So was it Stoltz's middle name.
He was called.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Dr Harvey.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Oh, that's an interesting middle name yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So born October 10th 1912.
He died April 5th 2007.
Okay, oh, wow.
So Harvey studied at YaleUniversity as an undergraduate
and then later as a medicalstudent, and then he was the
chief pathologist.
On call on the night ofEinstein's autopsy Okay, wow.
So, very briefly, we're goingto talk about how to do a brain
(05:18):
autopsy, because it's kind offascinating, right, and I pared
it down quite a bit so thiswouldn't be a long episode.
Oh, and that's good, because Iprobably wouldn't understand it
well, I'm going to tell you, I'mgoing to dumb it down for you
you're going to teach me, you'regoing to learn me some things.
I am going to learn you somethings.
So the brain which is in theskull of the head, since when?
(05:38):
So, during an autopsy, you haveto be wearing some PPE, some
personal protective equipment,right?
Yes?
And using a scalpel, you'regoing to make a coronal incision
which is from ear to ear, okay,so top of one ear to the top of
the other.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Up and around Yep, so you have a anterior and a
posterior section.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Right, okay, have a anterior and a posterior section
.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Okay, and then you're going to cut along the
occipital, which is the back ofthe head.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I love the occipital.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
And again that's going to expose like the back of
the skull.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Like near your spine.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Basically yes, Right, so you're going to retract the
scalp, the anterior and theposterior, and using an autopsy
saw and skull breaker, youremove the skull cap.
Okay, that's just kind of likeright on top there.
Have you ever seen oh, it's ahannibal lecter movie with ray
(06:39):
leota?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
yeah, no, I've seen that which one is that?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
that is is it just hannibal?
I think it's just called.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Hannibal.
It might be just the Hannibalone.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, ray Liotta's character.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Because they're sitting at the dining room table
and he's he's got a brainexposed.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Sure does.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
But that cap is missing.
Sure is, the skull cap ismissing Okay.
I like't know I always fuck hername up for some reason.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
So when you're removing the skull cap, you have
to avoid damage to the cortex,which is where higher level
functioning happens, likethinking and memory and language
.
I don't think I have that.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I was just going to say I don't think I have that
either.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, and then you're going to see the dura and it's
called dura matter.
Okay, but it's essentially partof your meninges, oh meninges
but it is tissue located rightunderneath the bone.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Okay, that dura is cut with curved scissors.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
For everyone at home.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
she's using her fingers in a cutting motion
Cutting motion and then thespinal cord is cut through the
foramen magna.
Foramen means hole, or like gapor whatever Large gap.
Foramen, large hole essentiallyoh, okay, so it's a hole in the
skull where your spinal cordgoes through.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
So the spinal cord is cut.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
And then the cranial nerves and the vessels are
severed.
Wow, okay, the brain pops out,pops out and it's placed in a
buffered saline solution whichis like a ph balanced saline
solution.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Okay, or four percent paraformaldehyde or so it's one
or the other.
Yep, and then how do you knowwhich one to use?
Like what are?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
you feeling that day, or I mean what's I'm not sure
if there is a way to determinewhich one to use or if they're
both acceptable or what's onhand, maybe, yeah but the skull
is then blotted um of likemoisture if you will moisture,
the cap is replaced and then theskull is sutured together.
(08:46):
Okay, okay.
The removed brain is thenweighted, photographed, and then
hemi sac, so, like sliced downthe middle, it's weighted.
Yeah, they weigh it.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
There it is.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, weighted, weighed Fuck.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
You got there.
I appreciate that.
I saw the hamster wheel turningin your brain there.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
They weighed.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
They weighted.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Wow.
Anyways, like I said, said mycortex is not not there it's.
It's definitely absent and thenso it's photographed and then
hemisected, so it's like sliceddown the middle, okay, okay, and
then the brainstem and thecerebellum are then separated.
Okay, so that is a brain biopsy.
That's how you take, or, uh,autopsy, you'd like take it out?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Okay, that's wild.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
So, following the autopsy, einstein's brain
weighed 1,230 grams, which ispretty normal.
That is a normal range in thenormal range for a human, a
regular human, and this is whenDr Harvey decided to steal his
fucking brain.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I know you're going to get into it for a minute.
He has such faith.
You're right, it's verymisguided faith.
I don't know why I thought youwould going to get into it for a
minute.
He has such faith.
You're right, it's verymisguided faith.
I don't know why.
I thought you would actually dothat.
That's my bad.
What is it?
What did he expect to do withthis brain?
Study it.
I get that, but in that momenthe's like I'm going to take this
(10:09):
.
Is it going to be like asouvenir he's going to put up on
his mantle, or is he likeliterally just going to study it
?
But like, I'm sure I'm not asmart man, however, it's like
I'd just be like what am I goingto do with this?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
So his reasoning was to study it, but he also was in
a position that he thought thisbrain cannot go to waste, like
it can't just be.
But it did, he died.
But you know what I mean, am Iwrong?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
No, but he I know what you're trying to say.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
He wanted to study it and he wanted to make sure that
it was preserved in some way,because it was kind of a big
deal.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Because he was a big deal?
Because he was a fucking genius.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, so Because he was a big deal, because he was a
fucking genius, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
So what was his IQ?
Do you remember?
Did you come across it at allin anything?
Because I know it was superfucking high.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I did not research his IQ because then I would have
to research what the range is,and I didn't want to get into
all that.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I was just curious, if you happen to know.
I know that was not a part ofyour research, but just in case
you saw it.
I was just curious, that's allso he took the brain without
permission, permission yeahpermission from einstein, aka.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
This is part of my will yeah, he didn't get his
permission slip signed yeah andhe took it without einstein's
family's permission I meanobviously einstein at that point
not needed, but his family.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
That's kind of fucked up.
I mean to do that.
So so do you have to likesmuggle it out in his like
lunchbox or well, it wasn't asecret, so einstein's family
demanded that the brain bereturned sure and dr harvey
struck a secret deal with hitwith einstein's estate by
essentially vowing to safeguardit from publicity and souvenir
(11:53):
hunters.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And he actually has a phone call with Einstein's son,
Hans Albert.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Hans Albert.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
And he was really pushing for the idea that
keeping the brain would be likea huge scientific opportunity.
And he's talking aboutanalyzing it, looking for
physical differences that mightexplain Einstein's genius, right
.
So Hans Albert was concernedabout the whole thing kind of
blowing up in the media, right.
But Dr Harvey made a prettystrong promise trying to
(12:26):
reassure him I'll take good careof it no exploitation, no
sensationalism.
And he swore that he would bethe brain's responsible
caretaker, only using it forresearch and published findings
in scientific journals.
So even though Hans Albert waspretty upset about the
(12:48):
unauthorized removal of brain,Hans.
Albert agreedans.
Albert agreed to let him studyhim that's wild okay.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So it's kind of like retroactively agreed upon yeah
he, he already went through withthe fuck.
Yeah, the theft.
Yeah, that's what it is.
And then, like it's what's thesaying, like, uh, I'm gonna
butcher this um Ask forpermission.
Ask forgiveness.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Or whatever.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
You know what I'm talking about.
Yeah, like ask for forgivenessbefore asking for permission or
something like that, somethingor other, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I know we're butchering it and that's
whatever, but it's basicallythat.
He's like fuck this, I'm goingto take it, and then I'll just
ask forgiveness later kind of.
Thing.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So Dr Harvey lost his job.
Well, kind of thing.
So, dr harvey.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Harvey lost his job.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Well rightly so, absolutely rightly so.
I mean he did the wrong thing.
He took the brain fromprinceton hospital to the
university of pennsylvania, okay, where he carved it into
multiple pieces.
Okay, some, some say 170 pieces, some say 240, so like I don't
know if he started with 170 andthen broke those down right or
what so I saw the two numbers isthere a significance to either
(14:00):
one?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
not really just that, it was a lot of pieces yeah, so
he had like brain steaks, likehe sliced them up like lunch
meat or something he did, and heactually actually like numbered
them to where it would be inthe brain.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
So, like a puzzle piece, essentially with numbers.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I would expect nothing less if he's actually
going to do this becauseotherwise you're going to oh man
, was this the front or the?
Speaker 1 (14:23):
back.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Because there's certain parts of your brain,
obviously, that do differentthings.
So, if you start fucking thatup, you're studying the wrong
thing.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
So this whole process of him cutting up the brain
took three months.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I mean, it's not just like grabbing a steak knife,
apparently I would have just putit in the bread slicer at the
local piggly wiggly.
True, yeah, yeah, yeah, itwould have done this job.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
You can even pick different slice sizes so he put
these pieces into jars and thenstole and then stored them in
his basement was a cool dryplace that's where he kept it
was just it was really fuckingweird his wife was furious.
She threatened to dispose ofthe brain herself.
But karma had another plan onher new oh instead of becoming
(15:14):
his ticket to scholarly fame itwas his downfall it was his
downfall.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So the?
So he lost his Princeton jobover it.
Yeah, he lost his medicallicense due to other factors.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
What do you have any of those?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
So he was supposed to attend some type of like three
day competency test and hedidn't go or he failed at one of
the two, oh, and he lost hislicense free because of it.
He had three failed marriages,oh shit.
And he spent 40 years likedrifting from place to place
like he had no like substantial,like root, I guess.
I guess.
Yeah, yeah, um, he would hideeinstein's brain in basements,
(15:54):
in cinder boxes, next to beercases, and he struggled to make
ends meet while also trying tostudy the brain at the same time
so if he's basically fuckingcutting all of his ties to any
institution, that will have him,because he's a fucking idiot
apparently and he's probably notan idiot no, he's just acting.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
He went to yale yale I said yale, not yell I said
yale too, that's the funny part,um, but like not just that
derailed me with my thoughtprocess there, but I don't know,
he's a smart man.
He clearly is a smart manbecause he was in a position of
(16:36):
where he was to even have hishands on this brain.
But then it's like, where areyou going to study?
You're not going to study it Inyour fucking basement, next to
some beer boxes.
I just I mean, what kind ofbeer was it?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
That wasn't part of my research.
There it is Bringing it back.
Everybody also knew that he hadthe brain.
He told his family, he told hisfriends.
Even his fifth grade son knew,and he told his entire class.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Well, he told everybody because he wanted to
be famous because of this.
Yes, so Harvey did everybodybecause he wanted to be famous
because of this, yes, so Harveydid manage to publish three
studies.
Okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
The first study done in 1985.
All right.
They looked at the balancebetween brain cells.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
That was the year you were born.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yes, so there are neurons which do the thinking
and glial cells which supportthem Glial, g-l-i-a-l glial.
Okay, in one part of Einstein'sbrain there were way more glial
cells than usual.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
And this means that those brain cells needed extra
energy to work.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
And this is all layman's terms for my own
purposes.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Oh, and mine, Trust me, I need the layman him into.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
So study number two yeah, in 1996 they noticed the
brain was a bit smaller thanaverage, but they also found
that the outer layer of hisbrain, the cortex, was thinner
but packed with more neurons.
Okay.
So basically he had a lot ofthinking power squeezed into a
smaller space.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
So he was there to steal this brain in 1955.
He's doing a study 41 yearslater.
How old was this person at thistime?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Well, he died in 2007 .
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Do you have an age of his death?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I don't wait, yes, I do, uh 94.
He was 94.
So he was born in 1912.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
So he did his second study at 83.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Wow Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Still trying to make a name for himself.
Good for him.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Study number three in 1999.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Oh, that's yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
This one focused on the folds and the grooves of the
brain.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Um, and they found, like you know, like the, yeah,
the weird texture, yeah.
So they found a really unusualpattern in the area linked to
math and spatial thinking.
Some type scientists think thatthis can mean that his brain
had, like, super efficientcommunication between neurons.
Okay, but other scientistspoint out that it's hard to say
(19:08):
for sure based on just one brain.
Sure, it would be like tryingto figure out how all cars work
by looking at a single fancy car.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Right, no, you need to.
What's the word you need?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
a pool.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
So they were essentially trying to compare a
single person brain to everybodyelse's brain and you can't do
it, and that's an issue.
Yeah, 100% so even if thestatistics were perfect, just
because you find somethingdifferent in Einstein's brain
doesn't mean that thatdifference costs his genius
Right.
So there was a financial cost,with research fund allocated to
studies that were, from theirinception, fundamentally flawed
(19:46):
because of this one thing.
Sure, were from their inception, fundamentally flawed because
of this one thing.
So those resources could havebeen directed towards
investigations with greaterlikelihood of producing
meaningful results.
There was personal costs, asEinstein's family was
essentially coerced intoconsenting.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, yeah, because he said I already have it.
So I'll just, I promise I'llfucking take care of it.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah, and then there was a public cost.
The social media, or, excuse me, the popular media accounts of
these studies, consistentlymisrepresented the findings and
their supposed scientific value.
Right, so by the end of DrHarvey's life he sent it off to
another doctor which he has notnamed.
(20:27):
He did not name, oh, so I thinkit's actually at a university,
but it was given to a doctor ofunknown name.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
At a potential university yes.
You would hope it would go tosomeone like that instead of
just like hey, man, can you putthis in your basement?
I'm about to die.
Or can you put this in yourbasement, right, I'm?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
about to die, right?
Can you flush this down thetoilet?
Speaker 2 (20:51):
No, Well, no, I mean you got some beer boxes.
Put it next to them in yourbasement, Cool Dry place.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Put some mothballs with it.
Okay, now we're going to we're,we're going to switch gears.
Okay, we're going to talk abouta different brain.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Oh yes.
Whose brain is this?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
We're going to talk about Laszlo Polgar.
Laszlo Polgar and his idea isthat you can raise a genius.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
So Laszlo Polgar was born in 1946 in Hungary.
He was born in 1946 in Hungaryand he built a successful
academic career with degrees inphilosophy and psych pedagogy,
which is the study of teachingmethods.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
And then culminating in a PhD focusing on the
development of humancapabilities and the nature of
genius.
Oh of human capabilities andthe nature of genius.
Oh.
So, supposedly, yes, he readover 400 biographies, okay, of
renowned thinkers, renowned,renowned thinkers not renowned,
from socrates to einstein okayhe identified patterns and
(22:04):
common traits among them.
Do you know 400 geniuses toread about?
Do you know 400?
Fuck no.
I know Like what.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I know of Einstein.
Like if you said name me agenius that you would want to
read about, I'd be like Einstein, yeah.
Aristotle, socrates, plato,that's all I got, but see those-
.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Were they?
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I don't know.
I'm not saying they're not, I'mjust saying I don't think so.
To me they're just philosophersfrom days of yore.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Thomas Edison, he invented shit.
Oh, oh, oh oh.
Alan Turing.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
He was pretty cool.
He was pretty cool.
That's a great fucking movie.
Yeah, the Imitation Game.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Okay, Rerouting.
So Laszlo was determined todemonstrate that genius could be
cultivated by starting to teachthem young and often.
Well, that's fuckinggroundbreaking.
He was going to raise hischildren to be geniuses, sure,
but he had no children.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Or a wife.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
That seems like a fucking big hurdle in his plan
so he needed a partner toparticipate in this experiment,
and he met a ukrainian foreignlanguage teacher named clara.
He outlined his plan and she'slike okay, let's do this.
Wow, okay together they.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
They raised three children they procreated, so did
they ever get married?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
oh yes, yeah, they got married okay, yeah they got
married.
So they had three childrensusan, born in 1969 this is the
oldest one.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Susan, born in 1969.
Sophia, born in 1974.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Okay, five years later.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
And Judith in 1976.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Three girls.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Three girls.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I feel like that's not a good fucking like thing to
have.
You should have thrown a boy inthere to see if that would work
on them too.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
You know I'm sure they tried Well, did they so?
To kick things off, laszlo andClara, the wife, decided chess
was going to be what they wouldteach their kids.
Laszlo was really specificabout why he wanted something
where success was undeniable.
It was objective.
It had no academic favoring,just results.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
So Laszlo wasn't just curious.
He wanted to flat out provethat any child could be
exceptional in the rightenvironment.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
So they decided to homeschool their three daughters
, focusing heavily on chess.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
They also were taught German and Russian and English
and advanced math that kind ofstuff, so they did consider
other subjects, but chess wonout could you imagine going to
school all day just to learnchess?
Speaker 1 (24:53):
so they stayed home I mean, I get that, but so susan
the oldest actually remembersthat it was her choice to do
chess because she would alwayspick up the chess pieces like
they were toys, and so thatinitial like curiosity was like
okay, this is what we're goingto choose.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah, I mean, that's really loose in my opinion.
I have kids and my kids pick upshit all the time.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
It doesn't mean they want to focus studies on that.
But okay.
So their experiment was builton the idea that any child could
be a genius with earlyspecialized education.
So they lived in Budapest, wasin a like cozy little apartment.
Every inch of that place wasdedicated to chess.
It was packed with books,boards, trophies and a huge
(25:38):
filing system for game analysisand player profiles did they
have a checkered floor?
I don't know, but that'd befunny if they didn't.
They fucking did not do theirfullest so laszlo started susan
at four years old.
Wow, six months later, sixmonths she is beating seasoned
(26:00):
players at the local chess clubsure and she's already
dominating in tournaments.
Okay, judith the youngest wasbeating their dad at age five.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Okay For Judith it was like a part of life, Like
this is just playing with mysisters, playing with dad.
It's just a part of life.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Can I ask a question?
Mm-hmm?
Judith started beating her dadat the age of five.
That doesn't mean he was a goodchess player.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
I just want to say that.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Because what was his ranking in the chess world?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
I don't really want to go into rankings because it's
all about numbers and I don'tknow numbers that is accurate.
It's a lot of weird numbers.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
My point is I used to play chess quite a bit when I
was younger.
We had this really nice chessboard from Mexico with all
carved pieces and stuff.
It was really pretty.
I think it still existssomewhere at my mom's house, but
it doesn't mean I was good, butanyways.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
So it was emphasized that their parents were a really
nice, delicate balance.
They were hands-on, they werealways there.
They were there during alltheir chess tournaments, and the
children realized that not allprodigies will have this support
system.
So they all felt very loved andnurtured.
(27:20):
So Laszlo was the chess coachand Clara was the rock of the
family.
They also employed actualgrandmasters to help train the
girls as well, Right, Okay.
So Susan the oldest said thather dad believed talent was
almost irrelevant.
Irrelevant, and it was allabout hard work.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
And, um, a lot of people criticize him for pushing
his daughter so hard, but thegirls themselves say that they
loved it.
Well, sure, at one point Laszlofinds Sophia, the second child,
in the bathroom in the middleof the night, like 4 am, with a
chest part on her knees and he'slike what are you doing?
Go to bed, go put him away.
And she's like Dad, they won'tleave me alone.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Okay, that's kind of creepy, isn't it?
I kind of creepy, isn't it?
I mean jesus.
Okay, so it won't leave mealone.
They're talking to me.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I feel like we're in poltergeist or something.
So the oldest, susan polgar,was a chess prodigy.
At age four she won her firsttournament against older girls
by 12.
She was the top-ranked femaleplayer globally.
So in 1991, susan became thethird woman ever to earn
(28:35):
Grandmaster title.
It made her the youngest femaleto do so at this time.
How old was she?
Sorry, it was in 1991, so Ithink she was 22.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Sure In 2000.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
You know math.
I think she was 22.
Sure In 2000.
You know math, I don't.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I know.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
In 2002, susan moved to the United States and in 2003
, she was the first woman namedGrandmaster of the Year.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Oh, I didn't know that was a thing, apparently.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
The same year, she also became the first woman to
win the U S blitz championshipamongst um male grandmasters,
and she won the title again in2005 and 2006.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Oh, good for her.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
She currently lives in St Louis.
I'm just joking.
Sophia number two, the secondone In the 1986 World Under-14
Championship.
She finished second.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
At the age of 14 in a tournament in Rome.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
She won against several strong grandmasters.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Her performance rating is one of the strongest
performances in history.
Oh, and for a time Polgarranked as the sixth strongest
female player in the world.
She is called an internationalmaster.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Oh, that sounds pretty grandiose.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Not as grand as Grandmaster.
She hasn't competed since 2010.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Why.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Because she wanted to be an artist.
Oh okay so she actually didmarry an Israeli grandmaster and
with him and their two childrenthey moved to Tel Aviv and
that's where they live.
Oh, wow, judith Polgar, theyoungest, yeah, um, she was
actually separated from hersisters while they were training
cause they were older and youknow a little bit farther along,
(30:27):
but because they were alwaysseparate, that intrigued Judith
a lot.
So after she had learned therules because they're like, oh,
she's curious, let's bring herin she learned the rules and
they discovered that Judith wasable to find solutions to
problems that they were studying, and then she began being
invited to the group to likeparticipate wow, way to be a
(30:49):
part of the family one evening,susan was studying an end game
with a trainer oh dear um andunable to find the solution,
they literally woke judith up,who was asleep in bed, said help
us figure this out.
She did and then went right backto bed.
Wow, okay, at age five shedefeated a family friend without
looking at her board at.
At the end of the game, thefriend joked you are good at
(31:12):
chess, but I'm a good cook.
And Judith replied with do youcook without looking at the
stove?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Wow, the balls on that chick.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
She first defeated an international master at age 10
and a grandmaster at age 11.
An international master at age10 and a grandmaster at age 11?
Okay, in 1991, polgar achievedthe grandmaster title by winning
the hungarian nationalchampionship at the time the
youngest ever, at 15 years andfour months, wow, which bumped
her sister susan off fuckingsusan's probably pissed on the
(31:45):
13th of august 2014, sheannounced announced to the
London newspaper the Times herretirement from chess at the
highest level, at a high level.
She married a vet surgeon withtwo children and they are living
.
They stayed in Hungary, so theyall became incredible chess
players.
Laszlo was determined, havingfought extensively with
(32:06):
Hungarian authorities over hisdaughter's participation in
chess.
It was a man's game, so it wasa big deal that these women want
to come up and, you know, playin men's games.
But laszlo's philosophycentered on work, love, freedom
and luck, with work beingparamount.
He also addressed genderinequality, expressing
(32:26):
expressing a traditional viewbut hoping his experiment would
challenge it.
Laszlo believed his educationalmethods had broader
applications, even suggestingthat they could contribute to
solving major health crises.
The most famous of these ischess 5,334 problems,
(32:50):
combinations and games, whichincludes 5,334 different
instructional situations, manytaken from real matches,
including 306 problems forcheckmate in one move how?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
No idea.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I don't know, but it has been called one of the most
iconic chess books ever written.
So do you think you can make agenius?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I think you can make someone really good at chess
yeah, I didn't.
I didn't see anything aboutthem like testing their iq
levels to see and that's thething it's like okay, so your
daughters are really good atchess.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Again, they beat you at a young age.
That doesn't prove anything tome, because you could have
sucked, and also there's more tolife than chess, to some people
at least.
So it's like how did they do inother factors of their life?
Were they smart people?
Or are they just really smartat chess?
I don't know.
Know there's a difference inthat.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Basically but in our show notes I am going to put a
video it's like a four minutevideo of um judith the youngest
battling um a grandmaster in 19and winning in 19 moves.
And they just did it in like apark, like a park chess board.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
That's wild to do that in 19 moves yeah did you
also know there's a really good,a perfect circle song called
judith?
Anyways, um, I don't know.
Like don't again, don't get mewrong.
I couldn't fucking beatsomebody in 50 moves sometimes I
.
I think it's uh fascinatingthat he tried to push I mean
(34:23):
push maybe not the right word onhis daughters, like we're gonna
try and make you a genius,learn chess, but nothing else
well, they learn languages andmath and everything.
I get that, but maybe not theright word on his daughter's
like we're going to try and makeyou a genius, learn chess, but
nothing else.
Well, they learn languages andmath and everything.
I get that, but you know Iwould have liked to known more
about.
Okay, was this a success inyour eyes, then?
Because you just taught themhow to play chess really well,
and, yes, learn some otherlanguages and whatever but but
(34:45):
we don't have like a beginning.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
What do they call that Like?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
uh, I know what, I think.
I know what you're trying tosay.
It's um.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Oh my God, I can't think.
Standard beginning standard.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I know that's not the term not the proper word, but I
know what you're trying to say.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Um, the control?
It's not a there's.
They don't have a control right, so they don't know if these
women are above IQ, lower IQ,like I didn't go into research
with that.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I know and this is an origin of weird, so I know
we're not like full on in depthand whatever.
It's fascinating that hismindset was well, let's do this
and went that path.
It's just, I don't know, seemskind of weird to me, because
it's like how does that make youa genius?
I just, I don't know.
Yeah, whereas like einstein,even even though his brain was
(35:34):
stolen, he was a genius so Imean, I get that it's just funny
that the guy who stole hisbrain is like try to make a name
for himself only because he hadeinstein's brain yeah and he
well well, he was hoping todiscover why, right like why
Einstein was the way he was.
Just miraculous discovery of Iknow how we can make more people
geniuses.
(35:54):
Now, because I found this inEinstein's brain.
That's what he's pretty muchhoping for.
Yeah, Very boiled down way ofsaying it, of course, but
everyone's different, though.
You can't just be like you're agenius because I say you are.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
So I know, I am not a smart man, I'm more.
I'm more Forrest Gump thanEinstein.
So, anyways, well, I supposeAll right, buffoons, that's it
for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Buckle up, because we've got another historical
adventure waiting for you nexttime.
Feeling hungry for morebuffoonery?
Another historical adventurewaiting for you next time,
feeling hungry for morebuffoonery?
Or maybe you have a burningquestion or a wild historical
theory for us to explore hit usup on social media.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
We're history buffoons podcast on youtube x,
instagram and facebook.
You can also email us athistory buffoons podcast at
gmailcom.
We are brad and Kate.
Music by Corey Akers.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn
those notifications on to stayin the loop.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to
rate and review us.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Remember, the buffoonery never stops.
oh, hello I do.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I do recall a recent episode where I went first and
then you said I fucked it up,you couldn't even get the intro
right.
But hey, so I don't get yelledat again.
We're the History Buffoons.
I am Bradley and that is Kate.
Oh, hello, oh, hey there.
There it is, oh, hey there,good Lord.
I mean right out of the gate.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
That was, that was epic I'm making a lot of chord
noises you're doing something.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Good lord, can you stop fucking with it to stop
making the noises.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorryoh, my word, jesus, mother,
something or other.
Oh hey there, oh hey there.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
This is all staying in, just so you're aware I'm
kate yeah, I went over that ohokay, that's bradley yes, I am,
and we are the history buffoonsand this is an origin of weird
story and I am not the topic, ifyou can believe it I can't
because I thought we were goingto talk about you and how
fucking weird you are right nowjesus christ.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
That was epic.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
That was epic I'm just gonna have some more of my
coffee so, anyways, this is theorigin of weird.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I'm gonna just fill time until she's ready oh my
goodness okay so it feels like Ihaven't done this in a minute.
Oh probably because we haven'twe haven't.
Well, I mean, we only do theorigins every other week as a
little side quest for our mainbuffoonery.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
A side quest.
I love it so.
So we're going to talk aboutthe brain, the brain, the brain.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Did you?
Oh, I just hit my.
That was weird and it echoed inmy head.
Did you ever watch Pinky andthe Brain?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Pinky, and the Brain Brain, brain, brain, brain,
brain, brain, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I used to love that when I was younger.
Yeah, I mean a lot younger.
I'm fucking old, yeah, I know,I know.
You tell me every time I seeyou.
So, she doesn't go.
Hey, Brad, how are you?
She goes, You're old.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Okay.
So what are we talking abouttoday?
We're going to talk about thebrain.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
We all know who Albert Einstein is Trying to
play.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Oh shit, that's not my topic.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
No, it's the brain.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
He was a genius right , he was.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
yes, he was what you would call a smart man.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
And you'd probably assume that his brain was also
something extraordinary I'mgoing to go with.
Not, it actually turns out itwas extraordinary, but in a
different way.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Was it enlarged?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
No, I will tell you.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Was it small?
Was there a hamster running ona wheel?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Jesus Einstein was actually pretty clear about what
he wanted when he passed away.
He passed away at the PrincetonHospital on April 18th 1955.
Okay, he had an abdominalaortic aneurysm oh shit and like
internal bleeding, but he waspretty clear after he died that
he did not want to be idolizedin any kind of way.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Well, apparently he didn't get his wish in any kind
of way.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Well, apparently he didn't get his wish.
So, author of the bookPostcards from the Brain Museum
by Brian Burrell, he points outthat Einstein's instructions
were to cremate him and scatterhis ashes privately, to avoid
any kind of brain worship, so tospeak.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Was that like a common practice in 1955?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
No, that's just what einstein wanted.
He didn't want people likegushing over his, like his ashes
.
Essentially, he wantedeverything to be done privately
okay, okay because he alreadyknew that he was kind of a big
deal because of how smart he wasright, and he didn't want to
want to be sensationalized.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, he was a modest fellow.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yes, exactly.
But, the oncologist, nope, thepathologist on call.
Oh, there it is.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I see how you can fuck that up.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
The pathologist on call was made aware of
Einstein's passing, so he wasthe one that would do the
autopsy.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
And he did something that would probably get his
medical license evoked today didhe take the brain?
He took it the fucking brain Ifeel like that's really
unethical so his name was thomasstoltz.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Harvey was born in october 10th 1912 was his middle
name Stoltz, or was he aStoltz-Harvey?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Stoltz-Harvey, there's no dash.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So was it Stoltz's middle name.
He was called.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Dr Harvey.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Oh, that's an interesting middle name yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So born October 10th 1912.
He died April 5th 2007.
Okay, oh, wow.
So Harvey studied at YaleUniversity as an undergraduate
and then later as a medicalstudent, and then he was the
chief pathologist.
On call on the night ofEinstein's autopsy Okay, wow.
So, very briefly, we're goingto talk about how to do a brain
(05:18):
autopsy, because it's kind offascinating, right, and I pared
it down quite a bit so thiswouldn't be a long episode.
Oh, and that's good, because Iprobably wouldn't understand it
well, I'm going to tell you, I'mgoing to dumb it down for you
you're going to teach me, you'regoing to learn me some things.
I am going to learn you somethings.
So the brain which is in theskull of the head, since when?
(05:38):
So, during an autopsy, you haveto be wearing some PPE, some
personal protective equipment,right?
Yes?
And using a scalpel, you'regoing to make a coronal incision
which is from ear to ear, okay,so top of one ear to the top of
the other.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Up and around Yep, so you have a anterior and a
posterior section.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Right, okay, have a anterior and a posterior section
.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Okay, and then you're going to cut along the
occipital, which is the back ofthe head.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I love the occipital.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
And again that's going to expose like the back of
the skull.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Like near your spine.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Basically yes, Right, so you're going to retract the
scalp, the anterior and theposterior, and using an autopsy
saw and skull breaker, youremove the skull cap.
Okay, that's just kind of likeright on top there.
Have you ever seen oh, it's ahannibal lecter movie with ray
(06:39):
leota?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
yeah, no, I've seen that which one is that?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
that is is it just hannibal?
I think it's just called.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Hannibal.
It might be just the Hannibalone.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, ray Liotta's character.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Because they're sitting at the dining room table
and he's he's got a brainexposed.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Sure does.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
But that cap is missing.
Sure is, the skull cap ismissing Okay.
I like't know I always fuck hername up for some reason.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
So when you're removing the skull cap, you have
to avoid damage to the cortex,which is where higher level
functioning happens, likethinking and memory and language
.
I don't think I have that.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I was just going to say I don't think I have that
either.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, and then you're going to see the dura and it's
called dura matter.
Okay, but it's essentially partof your meninges, oh meninges
but it is tissue located rightunderneath the bone.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Okay, that dura is cut with curved scissors.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
For everyone at home.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
she's using her fingers in a cutting motion
Cutting motion and then thespinal cord is cut through the
foramen magna.
Foramen means hole, or like gapor whatever Large gap.
Foramen, large hole essentiallyoh, okay, so it's a hole in the
skull where your spinal cordgoes through.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
So the spinal cord is cut.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
And then the cranial nerves and the vessels are
severed.
Wow, okay, the brain pops out,pops out and it's placed in a
buffered saline solution whichis like a ph balanced saline
solution.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Okay, or four percent paraformaldehyde or so it's one
or the other.
Yep, and then how do you knowwhich one to use?
Like what are?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
you feeling that day, or I mean what's I'm not sure
if there is a way to determinewhich one to use or if they're
both acceptable or what's onhand, maybe, yeah but the skull
is then blotted um of likemoisture if you will moisture,
the cap is replaced and then theskull is sutured together.
(08:46):
Okay, okay.
The removed brain is thenweighted, photographed, and then
hemi sac, so, like sliced downthe middle, it's weighted.
Yeah, they weigh it.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
There it is.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, weighted, weighed Fuck.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
You got there.
I appreciate that.
I saw the hamster wheel turningin your brain there.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
They weighed.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
They weighted.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Wow.
Anyways, like I said, said mycortex is not not there it's.
It's definitely absent and thenso it's photographed and then
hemisected, so it's like sliceddown the middle, okay, okay, and
then the brainstem and thecerebellum are then separated.
Okay, so that is a brain biopsy.
That's how you take, or, uh,autopsy, you'd like take it out?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Okay, that's wild.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
So, following the autopsy, einstein's brain
weighed 1,230 grams, which ispretty normal.
That is a normal range in thenormal range for a human, a
regular human, and this is whenDr Harvey decided to steal his
fucking brain.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I know you're going to get into it for a minute.
He has such faith.
You're right, it's verymisguided faith.
I don't know why I thought youwould going to get into it for a
minute.
He has such faith.
You're right, it's verymisguided faith.
I don't know why.
I thought you would actually dothat.
That's my bad.
What is it?
What did he expect to do withthis brain?
Study it.
I get that, but in that momenthe's like I'm going to take this
(10:09):
.
Is it going to be like asouvenir he's going to put up on
his mantle, or is he likeliterally just going to study it
?
But like, I'm sure I'm not asmart man, however, it's like
I'd just be like what am I goingto do with this?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
So his reasoning was to study it, but he also was in
a position that he thought thisbrain cannot go to waste, like
it can't just be.
But it did, he died.
But you know what I mean, am Iwrong?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
No, but he I know what you're trying to say.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
He wanted to study it and he wanted to make sure that
it was preserved in some way,because it was kind of a big
deal.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Because he was a big deal?
Because he was a fucking genius.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, so Because he was a big deal, because he was a
fucking genius, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
So what was his IQ?
Do you remember?
Did you come across it at allin anything?
Because I know it was superfucking high.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I did not research his IQ because then I would have
to research what the range is,and I didn't want to get into
all that.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I was just curious, if you happen to know.
I know that was not a part ofyour research, but just in case
you saw it.
I was just curious, that's allso he took the brain without
permission, permission yeahpermission from einstein, aka.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
This is part of my will yeah, he didn't get his
permission slip signed yeah andhe took it without einstein's
family's permission I meanobviously einstein at that point
not needed, but his family.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
That's kind of fucked up.
I mean to do that.
So so do you have to likesmuggle it out in his like
lunchbox or well, it wasn't asecret, so einstein's family
demanded that the brain bereturned sure and dr harvey
struck a secret deal with hitwith einstein's estate by
essentially vowing to safeguardit from publicity and souvenir
(11:53):
hunters.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And he actually has a phone call with Einstein's son,
Hans Albert.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Hans Albert.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
And he was really pushing for the idea that
keeping the brain would be likea huge scientific opportunity.
And he's talking aboutanalyzing it, looking for
physical differences that mightexplain Einstein's genius, right
.
So Hans Albert was concernedabout the whole thing kind of
blowing up in the media, right.
But Dr Harvey made a prettystrong promise trying to
(12:26):
reassure him I'll take good careof it no exploitation, no
sensationalism.
And he swore that he would bethe brain's responsible
caretaker, only using it forresearch and published findings
in scientific journals.
So even though Hans Albert waspretty upset about the
(12:48):
unauthorized removal of brain,Hans.
Albert agreedans.
Albert agreed to let him studyhim that's wild okay.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So it's kind of like retroactively agreed upon yeah
he, he already went through withthe fuck.
Yeah, the theft.
Yeah, that's what it is.
And then, like it's what's thesaying, like, uh, I'm gonna
butcher this um Ask forpermission.
Ask forgiveness.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Or whatever.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
You know what I'm talking about.
Yeah, like ask for forgivenessbefore asking for permission or
something like that, somethingor other, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I know we're butchering it and that's
whatever, but it's basicallythat.
He's like fuck this, I'm goingto take it, and then I'll just
ask forgiveness later kind of.
Thing.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So Dr Harvey lost his job.
Well, kind of thing.
So, dr harvey.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Harvey lost his job.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Well rightly so, absolutely rightly so.
I mean he did the wrong thing.
He took the brain fromprinceton hospital to the
university of pennsylvania, okay, where he carved it into
multiple pieces.
Okay, some, some say 170 pieces, some say 240, so like I don't
know if he started with 170 andthen broke those down right or
what so I saw the two numbers isthere a significance to either
(14:00):
one?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
not really just that, it was a lot of pieces yeah, so
he had like brain steaks, likehe sliced them up like lunch
meat or something he did, and heactually actually like numbered
them to where it would be inthe brain.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
So, like a puzzle piece, essentially with numbers.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I would expect nothing less if he's actually
going to do this becauseotherwise you're going to oh man
, was this the front or the?
Speaker 1 (14:23):
back.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Because there's certain parts of your brain,
obviously, that do differentthings.
So, if you start fucking thatup, you're studying the wrong
thing.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
So this whole process of him cutting up the brain
took three months.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I mean, it's not just like grabbing a steak knife,
apparently I would have just putit in the bread slicer at the
local piggly wiggly.
True, yeah, yeah, yeah, itwould have done this job.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
You can even pick different slice sizes so he put
these pieces into jars and thenstole and then stored them in
his basement was a cool dryplace that's where he kept it
was just it was really fuckingweird his wife was furious.
She threatened to dispose ofthe brain herself.
But karma had another plan onher new oh instead of becoming
(15:14):
his ticket to scholarly fame itwas his downfall it was his
downfall.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So the?
So he lost his Princeton jobover it.
Yeah, he lost his medicallicense due to other factors.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
What do you have any of those?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
So he was supposed to attend some type of like three
day competency test and hedidn't go or he failed at one of
the two, oh, and he lost hislicense free because of it.
He had three failed marriages,oh shit.
And he spent 40 years likedrifting from place to place
like he had no like substantial,like root, I guess.
I guess.
Yeah, yeah, um, he would hideeinstein's brain in basements,
(15:54):
in cinder boxes, next to beercases, and he struggled to make
ends meet while also trying tostudy the brain at the same time
so if he's basically fuckingcutting all of his ties to any
institution, that will have him,because he's a fucking idiot
apparently and he's probably notan idiot no, he's just acting.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
He went to yale yale I said yale, not yell I said
yale too, that's the funny part,um, but like not just that
derailed me with my thoughtprocess there, but I don't know,
he's a smart man.
He clearly is a smart manbecause he was in a position of
(16:36):
where he was to even have hishands on this brain.
But then it's like, where areyou going to study?
You're not going to study it Inyour fucking basement, next to
some beer boxes.
I just I mean, what kind ofbeer was it?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
That wasn't part of my research.
There it is Bringing it back.
Everybody also knew that he hadthe brain.
He told his family, he told hisfriends.
Even his fifth grade son knew,and he told his entire class.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Well, he told everybody because he wanted to
be famous because of this.
Yes, so Harvey did everybodybecause he wanted to be famous
because of this, yes, so Harveydid manage to publish three
studies.
Okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
The first study done in 1985.
All right.
They looked at the balancebetween brain cells.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
That was the year you were born.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yes, so there are neurons which do the thinking
and glial cells which supportthem Glial, g-l-i-a-l glial.
Okay, in one part of Einstein'sbrain there were way more glial
cells than usual.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
And this means that those brain cells needed extra
energy to work.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
And this is all layman's terms for my own
purposes.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Oh, and mine, Trust me, I need the layman him into.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
So study number two yeah, in 1996 they noticed the
brain was a bit smaller thanaverage, but they also found
that the outer layer of hisbrain, the cortex, was thinner
but packed with more neurons.
Okay.
So basically he had a lot ofthinking power squeezed into a
smaller space.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
So he was there to steal this brain in 1955.
He's doing a study 41 yearslater.
How old was this person at thistime?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Well, he died in 2007 .
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Do you have an age of his death?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I don't wait, yes, I do, uh 94.
He was 94.
So he was born in 1912.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
So he did his second study at 83.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Wow Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Still trying to make a name for himself.
Good for him.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Study number three in 1999.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Oh, that's yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
This one focused on the folds and the grooves of the
brain.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Um, and they found, like you know, like the, yeah,
the weird texture, yeah.
So they found a really unusualpattern in the area linked to
math and spatial thinking.
Some type scientists think thatthis can mean that his brain
had, like, super efficientcommunication between neurons.
Okay, but other scientistspoint out that it's hard to say
(19:08):
for sure based on just one brain.
Sure, it would be like tryingto figure out how all cars work
by looking at a single fancy car.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Right, no, you need to.
What's the word you need?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
a pool.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
So they were essentially trying to compare a
single person brain to everybodyelse's brain and you can't do
it, and that's an issue.
Yeah, 100% so even if thestatistics were perfect, just
because you find somethingdifferent in Einstein's brain
doesn't mean that thatdifference costs his genius
Right.
So there was a financial cost,with research fund allocated to
studies that were, from theirinception, fundamentally flawed
(19:46):
because of this one thing.
Sure, were from their inception, fundamentally flawed because
of this one thing.
So those resources could havebeen directed towards
investigations with greaterlikelihood of producing
meaningful results.
There was personal costs, asEinstein's family was
essentially coerced intoconsenting.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, yeah, because he said I already have it.
So I'll just, I promise I'llfucking take care of it.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah, and then there was a public cost.
The social media, or, excuse me, the popular media accounts of
these studies, consistentlymisrepresented the findings and
their supposed scientific value.
Right, so by the end of DrHarvey's life he sent it off to
another doctor which he has notnamed.
(20:27):
He did not name, oh, so I thinkit's actually at a university,
but it was given to a doctor ofunknown name.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
At a potential university yes.
You would hope it would go tosomeone like that instead of
just like hey, man, can you putthis in your basement?
I'm about to die.
Or can you put this in yourbasement, right, I'm?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
about to die, right?
Can you flush this down thetoilet?
Speaker 2 (20:51):
No, Well, no, I mean you got some beer boxes.
Put it next to them in yourbasement, Cool Dry place.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Put some mothballs with it.
Okay, now we're going to we're,we're going to switch gears.
Okay, we're going to talk abouta different brain.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Oh yes.
Whose brain is this?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
We're going to talk about Laszlo Polgar.
Laszlo Polgar and his idea isthat you can raise a genius.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
So Laszlo Polgar was born in 1946 in Hungary.
He was born in 1946 in Hungaryand he built a successful
academic career with degrees inphilosophy and psych pedagogy,
which is the study of teachingmethods.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
And then culminating in a PhD focusing on the
development of humancapabilities and the nature of
genius.
Oh of human capabilities andthe nature of genius.
Oh.
So, supposedly, yes, he readover 400 biographies, okay, of
renowned thinkers, renowned,renowned thinkers not renowned,
from socrates to einstein okayhe identified patterns and
(22:04):
common traits among them.
Do you know 400 geniuses toread about?
Do you know 400?
Fuck no.
I know Like what.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I know of Einstein.
Like if you said name me agenius that you would want to
read about, I'd be like Einstein, yeah.
Aristotle, socrates, plato,that's all I got, but see those-
.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Were they?
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I don't know.
I'm not saying they're not, I'mjust saying I don't think so.
To me they're just philosophersfrom days of yore.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Thomas Edison, he invented shit.
Oh, oh, oh oh.
Alan Turing.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
He was pretty cool.
He was pretty cool.
That's a great fucking movie.
Yeah, the Imitation Game.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Okay, Rerouting.
So Laszlo was determined todemonstrate that genius could be
cultivated by starting to teachthem young and often.
Well, that's fuckinggroundbreaking.
He was going to raise hischildren to be geniuses, sure,
but he had no children.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Or a wife.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
That seems like a fucking big hurdle in his plan
so he needed a partner toparticipate in this experiment,
and he met a ukrainian foreignlanguage teacher named clara.
He outlined his plan and she'slike okay, let's do this.
Wow, okay together they.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
They raised three children they procreated, so did
they ever get married?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
oh yes, yeah, they got married okay, yeah they got
married.
So they had three childrensusan, born in 1969 this is the
oldest one.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Susan, born in 1969.
Sophia, born in 1974.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Okay, five years later.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
And Judith in 1976.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Three girls.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Three girls.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I feel like that's not a good fucking like thing to
have.
You should have thrown a boy inthere to see if that would work
on them too.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
You know I'm sure they tried Well, did they so?
To kick things off, laszlo andClara, the wife, decided chess
was going to be what they wouldteach their kids.
Laszlo was really specificabout why he wanted something
where success was undeniable.
It was objective.
It had no academic favoring,just results.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
So Laszlo wasn't just curious.
He wanted to flat out provethat any child could be
exceptional in the rightenvironment.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
So they decided to homeschool their three daughters
, focusing heavily on chess.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
They also were taught German and Russian and English
and advanced math that kind ofstuff, so they did consider
other subjects, but chess wonout could you imagine going to
school all day just to learnchess?
Speaker 1 (24:53):
so they stayed home I mean, I get that, but so susan
the oldest actually remembersthat it was her choice to do
chess because she would alwayspick up the chess pieces like
they were toys, and so thatinitial like curiosity was like
okay, this is what we're goingto choose.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah, I mean, that's really loose in my opinion.
I have kids and my kids pick upshit all the time.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
It doesn't mean they want to focus studies on that.
But okay.
So their experiment was builton the idea that any child could
be a genius with earlyspecialized education.
So they lived in Budapest, wasin a like cozy little apartment.
Every inch of that place wasdedicated to chess.
It was packed with books,boards, trophies and a huge
(25:38):
filing system for game analysisand player profiles did they
have a checkered floor?
I don't know, but that'd befunny if they didn't.
They fucking did not do theirfullest so laszlo started susan
at four years old.
Wow, six months later, sixmonths she is beating seasoned
(26:00):
players at the local chess clubsure and she's already
dominating in tournaments.
Okay, judith the youngest wasbeating their dad at age five.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Okay For Judith it was like a part of life, Like
this is just playing with mysisters, playing with dad.
It's just a part of life.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Can I ask a question?
Mm-hmm?
Judith started beating her dadat the age of five.
That doesn't mean he was a goodchess player.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
I just want to say that.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Because what was his ranking in the chess world?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
I don't really want to go into rankings because it's
all about numbers and I don'tknow numbers that is accurate.
It's a lot of weird numbers.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
My point is I used to play chess quite a bit when I
was younger.
We had this really nice chessboard from Mexico with all
carved pieces and stuff.
It was really pretty.
I think it still existssomewhere at my mom's house, but
it doesn't mean I was good, butanyways.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
So it was emphasized that their parents were a really
nice, delicate balance.
They were hands-on, they werealways there.
They were there during alltheir chess tournaments, and the
children realized that not allprodigies will have this support
system.
So they all felt very loved andnurtured.
(27:20):
So Laszlo was the chess coachand Clara was the rock of the
family.
They also employed actualgrandmasters to help train the
girls as well, Right, Okay.
So Susan the oldest said thather dad believed talent was
almost irrelevant.
Irrelevant, and it was allabout hard work.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
And, um, a lot of people criticize him for pushing
his daughter so hard, but thegirls themselves say that they
loved it.
Well, sure, at one point Laszlofinds Sophia, the second child,
in the bathroom in the middleof the night, like 4 am, with a
chest part on her knees and he'slike what are you doing?
Go to bed, go put him away.
And she's like Dad, they won'tleave me alone.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Okay, that's kind of creepy, isn't it?
I kind of creepy, isn't it?
I mean jesus.
Okay, so it won't leave mealone.
They're talking to me.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I feel like we're in poltergeist or something.
So the oldest, susan polgar,was a chess prodigy.
At age four she won her firsttournament against older girls
by 12.
She was the top-ranked femaleplayer globally.
So in 1991, susan became thethird woman ever to earn
(28:35):
Grandmaster title.
It made her the youngest femaleto do so at this time.
How old was she?
Sorry, it was in 1991, so Ithink she was 22.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Sure In 2000.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
You know math.
I think she was 22.
Sure In 2000.
You know math, I don't.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I know.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
In 2002, susan moved to the United States and in 2003
, she was the first woman namedGrandmaster of the Year.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Oh, I didn't know that was a thing, apparently.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
The same year, she also became the first woman to
win the U S blitz championshipamongst um male grandmasters,
and she won the title again in2005 and 2006.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Oh, good for her.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
She currently lives in St Louis.
I'm just joking.
Sophia number two, the secondone In the 1986 World Under-14
Championship.
She finished second.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
At the age of 14 in a tournament in Rome.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
She won against several strong grandmasters.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Her performance rating is one of the strongest
performances in history.
Oh, and for a time Polgarranked as the sixth strongest
female player in the world.
She is called an internationalmaster.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Oh, that sounds pretty grandiose.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Not as grand as Grandmaster.
She hasn't competed since 2010.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Why.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Because she wanted to be an artist.
Oh okay so she actually didmarry an Israeli grandmaster and
with him and their two childrenthey moved to Tel Aviv and
that's where they live.
Oh, wow, judith Polgar, theyoungest, yeah, um, she was
actually separated from hersisters while they were training
cause they were older and youknow a little bit farther along,
(30:27):
but because they were alwaysseparate, that intrigued Judith
a lot.
So after she had learned therules because they're like, oh,
she's curious, let's bring herin she learned the rules and
they discovered that Judith wasable to find solutions to
problems that they were studying, and then she began being
invited to the group to likeparticipate wow, way to be a
(30:49):
part of the family one evening,susan was studying an end game
with a trainer oh dear um andunable to find the solution,
they literally woke judith up,who was asleep in bed, said help
us figure this out.
She did and then went right backto bed.
Wow, okay, at age five shedefeated a family friend without
looking at her board at.
At the end of the game, thefriend joked you are good at
(31:12):
chess, but I'm a good cook.
And Judith replied with do youcook without looking at the
stove?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Wow, the balls on that chick.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
She first defeated an international master at age 10
and a grandmaster at age 11.
An international master at age10 and a grandmaster at age 11?
Okay, in 1991, polgar achievedthe grandmaster title by winning
the hungarian nationalchampionship at the time the
youngest ever, at 15 years andfour months, wow, which bumped
her sister susan off fuckingsusan's probably pissed on the
(31:45):
13th of august 2014, sheannounced announced to the
London newspaper the Times herretirement from chess at the
highest level, at a high level.
She married a vet surgeon withtwo children and they are living
.
They stayed in Hungary, so theyall became incredible chess
players.
Laszlo was determined, havingfought extensively with
(32:06):
Hungarian authorities over hisdaughter's participation in
chess.
It was a man's game, so it wasa big deal that these women want
to come up and, you know, playin men's games.
But laszlo's philosophycentered on work, love, freedom
and luck, with work beingparamount.
He also addressed genderinequality, expressing
(32:26):
expressing a traditional viewbut hoping his experiment would
challenge it.
Laszlo believed his educationalmethods had broader
applications, even suggestingthat they could contribute to
solving major health crises.
The most famous of these ischess 5,334 problems,
(32:50):
combinations and games, whichincludes 5,334 different
instructional situations, manytaken from real matches,
including 306 problems forcheckmate in one move how?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
No idea.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I don't know, but it has been called one of the most
iconic chess books ever written.
So do you think you can make agenius?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I think you can make someone really good at chess
yeah, I didn't.
I didn't see anything aboutthem like testing their iq
levels to see and that's thething it's like okay, so your
daughters are really good atchess.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Again, they beat you at a young age.
That doesn't prove anything tome, because you could have
sucked, and also there's more tolife than chess, to some people
at least.
So it's like how did they do inother factors of their life?
Were they smart people?
Or are they just really smartat chess?
I don't know.
Know there's a difference inthat.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Basically but in our show notes I am going to put a
video it's like a four minutevideo of um judith the youngest
battling um a grandmaster in 19and winning in 19 moves.
And they just did it in like apark, like a park chess board.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
That's wild to do that in 19 moves yeah did you
also know there's a really good,a perfect circle song called
judith?
Anyways, um, I don't know.
Like don't again, don't get mewrong.
I couldn't fucking beatsomebody in 50 moves sometimes I
.
I think it's uh fascinatingthat he tried to push I mean
(34:23):
push maybe not the right word onhis daughters, like we're gonna
try and make you a genius,learn chess, but nothing else
well, they learn languages andmath and everything.
I get that, but maybe not theright word on his daughter's
like we're going to try and makeyou a genius, learn chess, but
nothing else.
Well, they learn languages andmath and everything.
I get that, but you know Iwould have liked to known more
about.
Okay, was this a success inyour eyes, then?
Because you just taught themhow to play chess really well,
and, yes, learn some otherlanguages and whatever but but
(34:45):
we don't have like a beginning.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
What do they call that Like?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
uh, I know what, I think.
I know what you're trying tosay.
It's um.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Oh my God, I can't think.
Standard beginning standard.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I know that's not the term not the proper word, but I
know what you're trying to say.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Um, the control?
It's not a there's.
They don't have a control right, so they don't know if these
women are above IQ, lower IQ,like I didn't go into research
with that.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I know and this is an origin of weird, so I know
we're not like full on in depthand whatever.
It's fascinating that hismindset was well, let's do this
and went that path.
It's just, I don't know, seemskind of weird to me, because
it's like how does that make youa genius?
I just, I don't know.
Yeah, whereas like einstein,even even though his brain was
(35:34):
stolen, he was a genius so Imean, I get that it's just funny
that the guy who stole hisbrain is like try to make a name
for himself only because he hadeinstein's brain yeah and he
well well, he was hoping todiscover why, right like why
Einstein was the way he was.
Just miraculous discovery of Iknow how we can make more people
geniuses.
(35:54):
Now, because I found this inEinstein's brain.
That's what he's pretty muchhoping for.
Yeah, Very boiled down way ofsaying it, of course, but
everyone's different, though.
You can't just be like you're agenius because I say you are.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
So I know, I am not a smart man, I'm more.
I'm more Forrest Gump thanEinstein.
So, anyways, well, I supposeAll right, buffoons, that's it
for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Buckle up, because we've got another historical
adventure waiting for you nexttime.
Feeling hungry for morebuffoonery?
Another historical adventurewaiting for you next time,
feeling hungry for morebuffoonery?
Or maybe you have a burningquestion or a wild historical
theory for us to explore hit usup on social media.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
We're history buffoons podcast on youtube x,
instagram and facebook.
You can also email us athistory buffoons podcast at
gmailcom.
We are brad and Kate.
Music by Corey Akers.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn
those notifications on to stayin the loop.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to
rate and review us.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Remember, the buffoonery never stops.
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